Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - A Conversation With Frederick Joseph on the Repercussions of Racism

Episode Date: October 1, 2021

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay welcome bestselling author Frederick Joseph to discuss his recent run-in at a dog park that went viral and the social media frenzy that followed (5:48). Plus, Black Twitter comes for Ellen Pompeo (1:00:56), the #FreeBritney movement succeeds (1:09:57), and a casting decision for the upcoming film ‘The Harder They Fall’ comes under scrutiny (1:18:08). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Frederick Joseph Producers: Trudy Joseph and Donnie Beacham Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Her learning is on. It is I, Van Lathen. And it's me, Rachel Lynn Lenton. It's Van Lathen, Jr. I keep forgetting that. That's okay.

When I say, Lynn, you get it. You figure it out. I had a rough day of grief yesterday. It's very, very, very tearful. Just like, it's like, is I'll read what I tweeted, because I didn't really know who to talk to about it. Because I'm not going to be able to put it in a better way.

Because the only reason why I'm saying this is because the junior is a tribute to my father. And I feel like sometimes I'm dropping it on purpose because it makes me think of them. And this is the realest shit I've ever wrote a la Tupac Shakur. And it's not a good way to really explain them. Well, dealing with my father's death has been impossible. I'll just be walking or writing and a feeling will just jump into me. It's like a feeling just comes to me as if like I'll be walking. down the street and I'll look around a corner and it'll be like is my dad going to be there.

I don't know what's going on. Or I will feel some weird feeling like he's trying to find me. And it just like yesterday, all day long yesterday, I felt some kind of weird connection to my dad. I was like, yo, he, I'm like, yo, like what's. And it, it, uh, it just like. it like re it's almost cemented yesterday that like he was passed away it's like weird and then like i still have trouble believing that he's actually dead i feel like there's something well it

he never got a cold before he never like he never cried he didn't like how could he die it's just weird I know I feel like I've heard people and I'm looking at my phone not because I'm I'm not listening to you I saw some I saw somebody post something and I was trying to find it um and it there was this picture with a ball in a jar and my oh I said that they sent that to me yeah my so my friend former bachelorette Becca cooferrin posted this about her father and I never seen somebody I've never visualized grief like this in the jar. So for those of you, Becca Kufrin posted this on September 20th and it was the anniversary for father's death. And it says people tend to believe that grief shrinks over time. And I thought, huh, that's so true. People, oh, it gets better with time. Oh,

you'll feel better. And the picture depicts a big black ball in a jar and the ball is taking up majority of the jar. And it's and it shrinks the three jars and the ball shrinks. And then And the next picture shows the ball the same size. And it says what really happens is that we grow around our grief. And I just, I like really, really thought about that. And someone sent that to me and I don't know, you know, what you thought about that. But I think we've been told to think a certain way about sadness and death over time. And I think that it's just very honest to say, no, you never lose it.

I think you just learn to deal. So what you're telling me is that I'll be happier the smaller my balls get. I'm so glad that you could put some comic relief into that. I'm just saying. You wouldn't be yourself if you didn't. You wouldn't. But yes, man, that's exactly what I'm saying. I did say black balls.

You did black balls. We're going to cut that. Just cut that piece because dad would like that. That like, just cut that piece. That would like that. But yeah, so it was a little bit of a rough day. Somebody told me that Mercury was in the seventh grade. And so that might be a reason why...

Retrograde. Yeah. And so that might be a reason why things are going crazy. Bozeman got it. Bozeman, like, Bozeman is so doting. He sees me down. He gets his toy. He brings over there.

Guess what? I don't want that fucking toy. That toy is covered in slobber. And then I'll try to throw the toy away and he'll look at me. He'll be like, nigger. Take the toy. Like the toy. Dogs are so,

dogs are angelic, man. They get it. Crazy. Like, he just looks at me like, yo, you okay? Yeah.

All right, look, we have a fantastic interview today. We have Freddie Joseph, best-selling author, and a man who's involved in a situation

that's sort of gone viral and got a lot of attention on the internet. He had an interaction with a woman at a dog park, an interaction that was, he says, was a racist encounter.

He posted. the video and after he posted the video, this woman lost her job. There are a lot of people that thought that this was maybe a misuse of Frederick's platform or that maybe he shouldn't have done this. Fred himself is unapologetic, one of the strongest, most fierce black men that I know. And he tends to believe and think that this is the consequences. These are the consequences for racism. We're going to have a talk with Fred. And now one that's not unchallenged. And now one that's not unchallenging about the incident itself, his response to the incident, how he feels about the fact that this lady lost her job, and how he also feels about some of the criticism from some pretty

prominent black people about this entire thing. It's a fantastic, fantastic interview. You do not want to miss it. It's coming up right after this break. Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness and swelling. Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimfaya, guselcomab, taken by injection, is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaques psoriasis, who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy,

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Restrictions apply. See terms at fanduel.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. We have the opportunity to delve into something that is getting a lot of people talking right now in the Twittersphere. Okay. And it involves somebody. who is very important to the movement as a whole, to the discourse in this country's surrounding race, a guy by the name of Frederick Joseph,

who we have on higher learning with us today. He is a best-selling author. I asked him how to describe him. He was like, yo, best-selling author, three books dropping next year. But a guy who I've known for a little while, and someone who you can always always kind of on to show up to the fight

whenever when black people or black safety or people safety is being threatened now there is a an incident that happened was this earlier this week Frederick yeah I guess some at this point it was last last week last weekend

last week between you and someone in a dog park at New York that has got people on the internet talking about the incident itself, the fallout from the incident, and a couple of other things. Why don't you, for people who don't know what we're talking about, why don't you just take us through what happened that night and then we can get to kind of some of the things that

are happening now? Yeah, for sure. So first things first, you know, I want to say it wasn't even me and the person. It was like me, my fiance and the person. I think that people have purposely taking my fiance out of situation to kind of take me as this big black guy, whatever, when like the interactions between her and my fiance. But, you know, to start from the. beginning. We were in Williamsburg. We live down the street from this dog park. We go there

literally all the time. I have, you know, anyone who follows me on IG or Twitter has seen my dog a billion times. I post him all the time, especially in that park. So we're on, we went to the park later in the evening. It was getting dark soon. I want to get some last exercise out. And there were a few dogs in the park that night, not as many as usual. There was this young white woman in the park and my dog, when we first got in, tried to play where her dog. Her dog wasn't playing. So he moved on to another dog. He started playing with this other dog. So they're playing around. My dog is being himself, you know, he's trying to hump and stuff like that, whatever, you know, dogs do. So basically, another young white woman comes in with two dogs.

And I think it was like a golden retriever. And another dog that was a black dog, but not my dog. but in dark they can look similar, I suppose. And her black dog was being kind of yappy. And I don't know for anyone who's listening, if they're familiar with adopting a dog, but when you adopt the dog sometimes, you have to socialize that dog, right? They'll be fearful of people sometimes, fearful of other dogs.

We don't really know what happened to them. But her dog was being kind of yappy growling a little bit. And the dog owner who owned a dog that my dog had been playing with, he and I were talking about probably the Lakers. I probably had on the Lakers shirt or something like that. That was the real problem. Yeah. Well, look.

I'm not going to get into you right now, but we could talk about that another time. But, you know, we were talking about four things like that. And the young white woman who came with the two dogs actually approached us, myself, the guy who I was talking to and my fiance, I was like, hey, I just adopted this dog. You know, he hasn't done anything to any other dogs. he's just a little, you know, vocal. We're like, all right, cool. We kept our dogs away.

So the whole time they're playing, blah, blah, blah, blah. My dog, at a certain point, we're just like, hey, let's all leave, right? So we're leaving at the same time that the guy is leaving who my dog and then playing with his dogs. We're all walking out. And the young white woman who I mentioned was there earlier, my dog tried to play with her dog. She's just like literally on this other side of the park.

She's like, finally, oh, finally. Yeah, like, leave. Get him out of here. So, you know, I'm just like, what's the problem, right? Like legitimately, because I actually don't understand what's going on. She's like, your dog, he's just so much. And I'm like, wait, what? I don't even know who your dog is at first.

Like I had to, you know, like, what are you talking about? So then I was like, oh, maybe she has my dog confused with the other dog, right? So I'm like, hey, like, actually I think that you have my dog confused with that dog. But that dog wasn't really doing anything. Da-da-da. And she just is like, no. Your dog is just the worst. Your dog is the worst.

So on and so forth. So I'm like, I don't understand why the only black couple in here, you're approaching us. And one, you don't know what you're talking about, obviously. And two, why are you not approaching this other woman who has a dog that looks similar? If you don't really understand which dog it is, why approach the black couple and not the white person who's closer to you? And also, we're leaving the part.

Leave us alone, right? So as I'm walking out, and she keeps on kind of saying whatever, my fiance is like, stop talking to him that way. Right? Now, for me, you know, just being really clear, I already know from jump, I'm talking to a white woman. So I'm being really whatever about him. Like, hey, like, you have the dog's confused. And I also have a platform. Right. And this is something. I understand white people. It is what it is. So I'm like, let me just, whatever. But my fiance is like, don't talk to him like that. Don't talk about my dog like that. Watch your mouth. Right.

So the white woman immediately jumps to what are you doing over here anyway? Stay in your hood, right? She's like, staying in your hurt, why don't you go back to your hood? Stay in your hood. This, you know, this is not your dog part. So I'm like, what do you? What? Stay in your hood? She's like, I'm like, so now you're going to jump to racism. She's like, I'm not, that's not racism.

I'm not being racist, right? So my fiance's like, you are being racist and she's like, I'm getting really hot right now. Let's just go. I'm like, lady, get out the part. Just go. Just go. She's like, no, you go. I don't want you following me. I don't want you walking behind me. So I'm like, just

leave the park. And the white guy who was next to us and talking earlier was standing right next to me at the time. I'm like, just leave. She's like, no. And don't walk behind me. I'll call the cops. Just don't walk behind me. Like I'm like, she's probably drunk. So me, I'm like, okay, I'm going to record this. So I pull out my phone. I start recording the interactions. I'm like, what you're not going to do is be all drunk in here, essentially call the cops, so and so forth, because I know how this goes. I mean, I'd imagine that most of us know how this can go. So I start recording the video and I don't know if either of you have seen the video.

I started recording. I literally put my phone up. You see that she smacks my phone. She smacks my hand down and then starts jumping in my face and give me the middle finger, right? Like, so then I say to her like, oh, it was staying my hood, right? Stay in our hood. You hear my fiance as well.

Oh, you just told us to stay in our hood. So she quickly becomes this like super victim. She's like, you said that to me? You said that to me. Are you seeing this to me? I'm like, oh, okay, we're going to try to do that. We're going to try to gaslight and, you know, weaponize your white woman victim, so on and so forth.

So I'm like, move around. White guys here. I'm like, okay, great. Nobody will believe the black guy. White guy. Did she just say this? He's like, yes, she did. As soon as he collaborated it, you can see her like running off and darting, right?

So I'm like, okay, cool. So now I'm going to just post this online because you're not going to be in here talking about how you're going to call the cops. you're telling us to stay in our hood. Also, we come to this dog park on a regular basis. It's not just a matter of like some simple microaggression. You're being really racist right now. And you can't.

So that's the dog park where you live. Yeah. This is like this is our dog park. I have like, this is our dog park. Literally our dog park. Yeah. You know, we go to that dog park. We don't go to the dog park anymore now.

But that was our dog park. You know, and I have countless videos of my dog park. playing with dogs in there. Because I, that's, you know, my dog is, that's, you know, like my child. You know, I have videos in him playing in that dog park with other dogs being fine. I brought my nephew to that dog park. I have videos of them playing with dogs in the dog. It's a mess, you know.

So since then, and I've gotten death threats to my house, bomb threats. You know, people, black people have been, like, kind of aligning with, oh, you shouldn't have posted anything. about this. Well, yeah, yeah. So let's stop there, though, and let's go back. So because there's a gap in between there in the story. So you posted it. She was identified after you posted it.

And then her. Yeah, so I posted it the night before just like, hey, this thing happened. Right. And then the next day, somebody's like, hey, I think it's this person. So, you know, I go and I'm like, oh, yeah, my fiance and I, this is her. So then once so then, so just so we followed, she was identified. Yeah. Someone identified her.

Yep. And then after someone was identified, after she was identified in a post and her name was put out there, you then reposted that and tell people who she was. Yeah. Yeah. So as soon identified, somebody sent these screenshots like, hey, this is her eye. so and so forth. So I'm like, hey, this is who the person is.

And then they were like, oh, she's working at this place that has 70% black investors or something like that. So I wrote under my, hey, whatever the company is called, you know, I don't think that this aligns with your values letting you know, right? And that was it. And then I was like, I'm offline. Y'all do whatever y'all want. I could care less at this point.

So what happens from there is the CEO reaches out to us. White guy calls me and my fiancee. and he's just like, just right about your experience. So sorry, we're going to fire her. Right. I'm like, mind you, I actually have this like recorded, right? I haven't said anything to him about what he should do because ultimately like. What did you hope that he would do when you, when you asked him about whether or not it aligned with the values?

Oh, I didn't really care. I just was trying to make it known that it took place, to be honest with you. Because at the end of the day, I'm someone who believes that if anybody commits an act, it should be known that they committed this act. because I don't know also, are you treating your colleagues the same way? Do you feel like to get away with this, right? And I think that that's the misconception about certain things. People are like, and it's a conversation I've seen going on a lot. It's like, oh, well, what do he expect to happen?

I'm like, I don't know, the same thing she expected to happen when she did what she did. I don't know. I'm just, hey, you did a thing. I'm responding. It is what it is, right? Like, I don't have the power. I don't work at her job. I don't or anything like that.

I don't have the power to do anything to her necessarily. but whatever repercussions should come, whether that was going to be a DEI training or a suspension or whatever it is. You know, that's for them to decide ultimately. But he jumped on the phone, said he was going to fire her. You know, I'm like, look, I don't really care what you do because whatever happens, that doesn't help me and my fiance heal, nor does it stop these bomb threats that I'm getting from, you know, people who are wanting to uphold her racism, quite frankly. Now, did you start to get bomb threats because she was fired from her job? Yeah.

So she was fired from her job. Do you, would you say that you were getting bomb threats before or after she was fired from her job? Or before or after she was identified? Both. Okay. Yeah, both. So as soon as it was posted the next morning, before she was even identified, we were already getting death threats and things like that. Oh, we just like, I'm alone.

Stop harassing white people, so and so forth. especially because the work that I do, the things I talk about, even my debut book, is about white people. So the second that it started getting some virality and white people, especially in the worst parts of white spaces online, got wind of it, they're already like, oh, we're going to destroy him. Right. So at that point, it was bad. It got worse once she got fired.

The second that she got fired, everyone was like, and again, I think it was, it's not a white people, I think there's just a kind of this mass, this mass group of people who are like, oh, you did the wrong thing, so and so forth. How did people find out she got fired? The same way I found out, Twitter. Okay. I want to go back to something you said, which I'd like for you to talk about a little bit more. You said you don't go to the park anymore, that park, a park that you frequent, frequently you would go to with your dog.

There's videos. There's pictures. people know you there. You got dog friends. You got friends from the neighborhood. And you no longer go to a park in your neighborhood. Why? I mean, it's traumatic, right? And I think that that's the thing that's lost in this situation. This entire experience is deeply traumatic, right? Like, going to that dog park, I actually, a few weeks before had posted about another incident in passing, which is another conversation I want to have right now, was actually outside of my car. I drive a decent car. I'm not going to say on here what kind of car I drive because people are.

I drive a Maybach is what he's trying to say. The Raith. See, that's the Raith. That's the Raith. Get your shit together, friend. That's the Raith. Go ahead. See, I'm messing up.

See, I don't have. You know, I'm not, I didn't get the $10 million that white supremacist is saying I got from this event. So anyway, so I was sitting and I saw my car with my dog a few weeks earlier. and I was like fumbling and bumbling from my keys. Like I'm sure we've all been there, especially if you have a dog, your dog is pulling in direction. And this white woman,

as I'm saying, I'm talking about my car is like, oh, whose car is this? Are you okay? Like stops me to kind of police me looking for my keys in front of my car, whatever.

So I posted about that incident because, again, I be talking about racism, right? Like, I actively, and there's not enough characters on Twitter for me to talk about how racist, how racist everyday occurrences are for black people generally, right? But every so often I'll bring up an incident of something happening.

So I brought that incident up and people pull that up with this situation. See, he's lying. He's, why is it that racism happens to him so often? I'm like, man, I posted how often racism actually happens to me. What do we actually talking about? If you're black existing within primarily white spaces, I can't tell you what you're probably going through, right? So that combined with this incident, you know, and so to so,

but we're like actually navigating how to exercise the dog in another way because we don't A, want to go to that park anymore because it's so much it's so much part of cultural online zeitgeist. And then B, I'm not honestly, I'm not really trying to be around many white dog owners right now. Like I'm just like it's kind of traumatic like to be quite frank with you, especially seeing the conversations going on online about the whole incident. So the conversation online about the incident is actually why I reached out because the The response to it, even from black people, like you said, hasn't been uniform, especially. There have been some prominent black people, including Nicole Hannah-Jones, who is famous for having brought us the 1619 project, which for our audience, if you don't know, looks at the lens of contemporary, looks at contemporary American life through the lens of slavery.

and it's capitalistic and socio-economic effect on this country. And that's somebody right there that you would think if there was a situation to where race was a deciding factor or to where it needed to be highlighted or there needed to be consequences based on that, that she would be in lockstep. But she actually tweeted that she thought that actually putting her name out there. And having this woman whose name is, I think, Emma Sars, Emma Sarsley or something, yeah, that having her lose her job was a poor use of your platform. And I got actually hit up by a lot of people that thought exactly the same that it was a poor use of your platform. I actually haven't made my mind up about it because you never want to get to the point to where you're providing cover for white supremacy. but you also want to make sure, and that's something that we could all do,

you can do that and I even know that you're doing it. It's so cute that way. But at the same time, you are a powerful person online. It's not just like anyone went up there and said, hey, this is what happened to me. You did it and you have a fierce platform and you have a lot of authority on this.

And it seems like you would be speaking for a lot of people when you put that out there. Did you take that into consideration when you posted the video? And on top of that, what do you say to somebody like Nicole and Hannah Jones who you know is down and doesn't agree with what it was that you did? Well, I think that there's two things. So two very lowed things. I think one in terms of did I consider that? I think that there's this like this view of people who have a certain level of like online power and things that at nature.

sure is like when do people also get to exist as citizens, right? I didn't post that. And like when I originally posted, I'm like, hey, I just went through this trauma, right? Like I just dealt with this thing. And even when they're like, oh, this is who the person is, realistically, she could have done that to any other black person. And there's plenty of times that things like this are posted and nothing comes of it because of the fact that the person doesn't have a platform or the right person didn't retweet it. You know, you kind of just did it to the wrong black person in that instance. But at the end of the day, regardless if I have one follower or a million followers or 100,000 followers, I'm still a black man, my fiance is still

a black woman who did go through that, right? And I think that that's the thing that people are like missing. It's like, okay, at the end of the day, when I was at the dog park, she didn't care about my online platform. She had no idea who I was, right? That didn't matter, right? So now, if that would have happened in a bubble outside of all that, which it kind of did, I suppose, none of that exists. She's a person. I'm a person. I went through a trauma. And then realistically, we want to really get down to some of the nitty gritty. In the beginning of the video, like I said, people have talked about this online, I've seen a little bit.

When she does the smacking on my hand and assaults me, had that been reversed, I would probably be in jail right now, right? I haven't approached anything from the vantage point of... Did you file an assault charge owner? Because it is assault. I didn't. I didn't.

And that's important, right? I didn't. I'm not the one who told her employer to fire her. And I recorded that conversation purposely, because I knew that at the end of the day how this works in America, right? Frederick. You're my guy.

Good. You told her employer to fire. No, I did it. He's in an indirect way, is what you're saying. In an indirect way. By the way, by the way, no dog in the fight. I think this is one of the most fascinating things that has happened online in a while

because normally we're all on the same side of this. But you asked if racism and harassment was in line with the company's values. And you made her the face of that. Like so. Well, that's a valid point. But then the same instance, right? And I ask this question online.

Let's just argue that you're right. Let's say, like, oh, it was going to fire her. Let's argue that for a point. What are the repercussions of racism, right? Like, actually, like, and this is a, I've actually been pushing back. And this kind of goes into the thing with, even Nicole Hannah, Hannah Nicole, I don't know her personally. So I'm Nicole Hannah.

Help him out, man. Help him out. Nicole Hannah Jones. I know you're not. I know you're not. It was just funny. It's like the stars on the top of her right. It's Nicole Hannah Jones.

I'll be the same as Jones, right? I don't know her personally. So we haven't had a conversation. I've just seen some of the dialogue once again. But my question for you, Van, her and everybody is, what do you want the repercussions to be, right? Because at the end of the day, what we have here is someone said something, they can call it overt racism or microgression,

but then also decided to not only weaponize the police by claiming that we're going to follow her, but then on camera tried to gaslight, blame us. Then in her public statement said that she did do it after a camera saying she didn't do it. And, right, all that, all that combined, now I have to deal with the white supremacists coming out so and so forth. And no one cares about that plus my fiance is involved and no one's humanizing her the same way they're humanizing this white girl, right? But that's a whole other conversation.

So all of that to say, what do y'all want to see happen, right? Like what did what do y'all expect of all that being done? What do you all expect to happen? Because from my world, you know, when a white woman acts like that, that has gotten people killed. Black people murder. Yeah. So somebody committing an act of racism, right, oblique.

And I don't know if we can agree. That was a blatant act of racist. Tell them black people go back to their hood and doing all this stuff. You're being racist. It is what it is, right? Like you decided to jump to racism. What are the repercussions of that? Would y'all have liked for, you know, someone, you know, to go do a sit down for her and do a DEI?

Listen, listen, I will be, I've made up my mind, okay? You could fuck with me if you want. I would have recorded it. I would have posted it because I feel like if you're bold enough to act that way to me in public with other people around, then I am bold enough to take that and put that in public as well. If you want to act like that publicly, then I'm going to put your public actions on public display. And then whatever the fallout is after that, that's on you. Because I feel like you don't get to act like that in the dark and think that I'm not about to do anything.

this is a new day where we can record what you do, and I have a platform where then I can put that on display. I, I 100% am in line with what you did. I understand it. And I think that you made this comment in the beginning we were talking when I asked you why you don't go back to the park. It's so much deeper than a one-time incident. You brought up two incidents.

You have countless incidents and so many other people of color. And I just feel like nobody is focusing on how traumatic that can be, how deep that runs and it affects your everyday livelihood where what you what was a routine for you you can no longer do anymore right and i mean i think that that's exactly it i think it's also to that point it's been interesting as i think you know being somebody like you said van who's who i love that people who consider me a thought leader on a lot of these things i've seen the response from chris cooper the response from um the both of um jean family right Chris Cooper, when Amy Cooper did that to him and could have got him killed by the police,

this was in the height of 2020, when she should have been at least a little bit more thoughtful. What did he say? He said, oh, I forgive her. I want her to be okay, so and so forth. With the Botham Jeans, I don't know if I'm pronounced his name, Botham Jeans. What did Botham Jeans family do to the white woman who murdered him? It hugged her in court, right? So there's this kind of muscle that I think that people have worked of how we're supposed to coddle people who commits her in acts. I, like, I literally have lost jobs as a black person for not showing up in the same ways that people get to show up on a regular basis, right? Like, I'm talking about, like, performing at high levels and still losing jobs

because people have been looking for something the entire time, right? So I can't even imagine if I went out in the world and committed acts of homophobia, transphobia, so on so forth. I did the exact same thing to another marginalized person. And you talk about a job. Every book deal will be gone. My entire platform will be ripped to shreds, so on and so forth, right? I don't understand why there's so many people coddling racism, right?

This is, I just don't get it. And again, I think the muscle is work. And the expectation is like, oh, this kind of Christian forgiveness thing. I don't really know what it boils down. It's like, oh, we got to forget. We got to hold her hand and kind of get her to the next side. She is learning a lesson. She learned a lesson, right? I mean, people again aren't even seeing how quickly she weaponized and understood that she was a white woman on that video. Oh, black guys filming me. Let me

lie about what he's saying. Oh, white guy cooperated his story. Let me get out of here. I'm going to just let all these, all this like stuff happen online to him, let these bomb threats get sent to his house and put out a statement that counteracts the video this out there. She don't care about me. She doesn't care about what's happening to my family. Let's be real about this. And going back to the other point, What do y'all want to happen, man? Right? What do y'all? Well, first of all, he's doing something that's very deft.

He's y'alling me. And I love the y'all. My homeboys will call me up like, man, what y'all niggas won't? Y'all niggas always complaining about something. What I'm simply doing is I'm, and understand, first of all, I probably would have never posted the video, not my style, right? It's just, and that, but to me, that's neither here nor there, right? I look at the video, the woman's clearly drunk.

Like she's clearly drunk in the video. She's like she's clearly drunk in the video, right? I don't expect a human being to be firing all cylinders when they're inebriated. All right. If you're asking me, the most offensive thing and all of it was the privilege that she exercised in talking to you in the first place. All right? So you sit down there. You're having a conversation with somebody else.

you took the time to come over here and come over here and tell me about myself. But beyond that, like, this is kind of like a situation to where you initiated that. I got to be honest with you. I can't be mad that she lost her job. I'm not mad. She fucking started it. So let's just be real. Let's just be real.

What I'm saying is specifically for you, someone who is a big angler who takes on the big problems who was out there fighting the big things. Sure. Like a drunk lady lost her job, right? A company, like a company was set upon a path to where they were like, we have to make a decision about whether or not we're going to fire somebody based upon this encounter that happened. However, they, and by the way, your, your fiance is rolling in this. I want to come back to Nicole Hannah-Jones of it all, but your fiance in this, at the moment that your fiance and her start to our, you know, starting to arguing, now this whole thing is escalated to a point to where everybody on either

side of it is saying and doing all kinds of shit and one person's drunk. But that's also not necessarily true. And I think that what you're doing right now, no, no, no, because like, because what you're doing it, because easily you could have said, because the same way people are humanizing her, like, oh, well, she was drunk. She's this little white girl. Not humanizer. Who apparently does because. No, but Fred, it doesn't. Because like, all All I'm telling you is what actually, I'm not humanizer. I'm just saying what actually happened. No, no, I hear you.

I hear you. But if you're going to do that, and you also kind of have to add to a point that Rachel made, then you have to look at, if you don't look through the lens of her being this non-platform, drunk white girl, you got to also then look through the lens of him being this highly platform, constantly traumatized black person. And how often do I not do this, right? How often do I get threats to my house? People literally pulling up on me in the street, like white people pulling on me.

a street where I'm like, yo, I'm at to fight him right now. Pulling up on me in the street, I don't like your book. I don't like the things you say, this and that and a third, right? Like him in doing things like this constantly. I think that one of the other things that's like different about it is that at the end of the day, there's a lot of platformed black people who are saying a lot of things about this, but a lot of those platform black people, race is not their specific point. And that's why I think you bringing up Ms. Jones is important and we can get back to that in a second if you want. But a lot of people don't deal with the things that I'm dealing with, right? When I walk out the door every day, my publishers, everybody who's

around and can speak to this, I have to deal with the worst parts of racism in this country on a regular basis because I am such a person out there. So the person who's like, hey, you know what, I don't agree with Fred. Yeah, I mean, bro, you, um, you some black dude known for making mumble rap and dating a white girl. I wouldn't expect you to agree with me, right? Like, and that's, and that's just for real. You're not, you're not dealing with what I'm dealing with. But you think that Nicole Hannah Jones is. Nicole Hannah Jones was denied. That's also not necessarily true.

But Nicole, but what I'm asking you is Nicole Hannah Jones was denied a tenured position at the University of North Carolina, something that she had more than earned. And is the scorn of politicians, right-wing white supremacist activists from sea to shine and see she has been made the poster child for even though the 1619 project isn't CRT she's been made the poster child for for black angst trying to take down America you wouldn't think that somebody like that would have any insight into dealing with some of the same things that you dealt with the 1619 project made her public enemy number one to all the Oakley wearing curved cap on the right,

we voted for Trump guys. Well, I think that to that specific, the example of Nicole Hannah-Jones, right? Nicole Hannah-Jones? Yes, Nicole Hannah-Jones. The example of Nicole Hannah-Jones, I think that that speaks to something else, in my opinion, blackness is not a monolith.

I don't really care what she does with her platform. And that's also been something that, like, at the end of the day, why am I arguing with anybody other than my fiance about how we handle the situation that happened to us. Like, I don't really, I don't really, like, at the end of the day, man, I don't know what she does. Because you know what? You know how many times I've been denied stuff? And I'm a New York Times best selling out the four,

which under 30 market and blah, blah, blah. I've been denied plenty of stuff. And I also didn't use my platform in those instances to go online and talk about the places that denied me, right? She did. And that's fine. I don't care. I don't have an opinion because she is her.

I don't know what she's dealing with in her space. The way my blackness works and the way I work as a person is I keep things in-house. Doesn't make me a difference. It doesn't affect me at all. I mind my business on it, right? And that's what it is. You know, I think that even at the end of the day, I remember when, you know, I thought that what you did was brilliant when that, when you kind of blew up with the Kanye thing

and all that. Yeah. And honestly, Kanye had been saying wild stuff before that. And it was like, oh, it doesn't affect me. That's when it affected us, right? so you said something about it. But he said it to, he said it to me.

That was the difference. He, like he, the difference in that situation is Kanye West asked me a direct question. Sure. I, I, like,

Kanye West wasn't worth any rants before that. Kanye West wasn't worth, Kanye West wasn't worth any of my think pieces before that. Kanye West turned around to me at my job and asked me, that's the point. That's my exact point, though. Right, right, right, right, right.

The personalization of it all. I think that and I think but hold on but hold on but this is the point though I spoke to Kanye and the cameras were there I've never once after that came out and told people boycott Kanye West. Don't listen to Kanye West music. Don't do any of this stuff with Kanye West. I have not made it my particular life goal to just one second, just one second. I have not because because you guys brought it up and you said it's the same thing. I have not in any way made it my particular life goal to do. destroy Kanye West. What Kanye West thinks is what Kanye West thinks. You bring that to me.

You get my response. So, so, so for me, the best way to, the best way to deal going forward with that was to not talk to Kanye West. Kanye West. Kanye West thinks what he thinks. It was to talk to black people, right? I'm not going to write any letters to Universal Music group, telling them not to put our Kanye West records. I'm not going to diss people that want to listen to Kanye West music. That's all on y'all. Sure. So in that situation, he asked me a question. I gave him an answer. That's my, that's exactly my point, though, Ben. You didn't have anything to say prior to that direct engagement, right?

I didn't directly engage with any of the black people who said. I didn't ask anybody's opinions. I don't care, right? Like, that's what I'm saying. Like, at the end of that, you were racial disagree right now because you are two different black people. She is her, you are you. And at the end of the day, y'all disagree in having discourse, stuff like that.

It doesn't stop the bomb threats or my fiancé crying after that incident took place. It is what it is, right? Y'all can have y'all discourse. Blackness is not a monolith. Ms. Jones can think what she wants to think, and that's fine. I go about my business differently. A white person did something to me amongst the billions of white people

who do stuff to me on a regular basis. This was the night that, for lack of a term, she fucked up. I wasn't, like, I'm not going to just let you abuse me constantly. I posted it online. She ended up losing her job because her employer decided that what she did didn't align with their values.

I don't have any control. control outside of that. You over here, good luck, right? Good luck to you. You chose what you chose. You did the things that you did, whether you were inebriated or not, this and that third. Like I said earlier, it's a very good thing for other people that I'm not filing charges for harassment for some assault to me. Like, everyone would have. Yeah. Well, that's the thing. But see, there's the difference. I, this is what I think. What, whoa, whoa, hold on, hold on, hold on. So, so, so, so let me tell you why I would have filed charges on her for assaulting me. Like to me, I think sicking my Twitter mob on somebody is a lot different.

Like, so by the way, hold on for a second. That's me saying that. I want to make sure I say something to you right now with love. We're having a difference of opinion right now on something that happened. Yeah. What we are not doing right now, what I am not doing right now, and I want to say this very clearly, I'm not shifting to blame here. I'm not victim blaming you.

I'm saying the same way that any other time somebody says, hey, just comply with the police and it won't happen to you. And what I'm saying is that's got to work all over the place. So in this situation, she fucked up. And at the end of the day, whatever happened to her is a direct result of the karma that she put into the world. So right away, I'm saying that. When I say Twitter mob, what I'm saying is if something happens to me,

and it's illegal, I'm a snitch. Like, you come into my house, I see you leaving, I'm a snitch. If something happens, if I feel assaulted, if I feel assaulted, if I feel like it rises to that level to where I feel assaulted, I would call the police. But I certainly in that situation wouldn't not call the police, but then go to Twitter. And I certainly then, after she had been doxxed, which is what happened, and had her name put online, then after that, like,

ran to her employer. Like to me, it seems like that was a very definite situation to where you went. And this is just a, once again, she got what she got. Like, the difference of opinion. She got what she got.

That was a very clear, hey, she fucked up. She did this. I can no longer go to the dog part. Even you saying that you're traumatized from going to the dog part.

Yo, I'm 41 years old. There's a lot of racist shit that has happened to me in my life. Like, you can't go to the dog part for it? Can I just, Can I just say this? Can I just say this? One thing that we keep skirting around the issue, and this is when you'll have a reaction out of me and Fred is that it's personal at the end of the day. And the reason I say, like I was like, I would say what I would do in that situation.

Van, you have an opinion of what you would do. At the end of the day, neither one of us were in that situation. So I really don't know how I would have reacted. I don't know what I would have done. I don't know if I would have called the cops. I don't know if I would have posted it on social media. We have no idea. And so that's why it's like hard to take somebody like Mrs. Jones' opinion and say that that's Bible. When at the end of the day. Oh, not Bible? Who said that? But some people do as leaders, right?

When you start talking about you have a platform and you're a thought leader and you can get this mob of people to support and get behind what your belief is or your tweet is or whatever it may be, then yeah. Like, people are taking it as the word. And at the end of the day, you don't know what you would have done in that situation. You have no idea because people react differently when it directly impacts them. And it could have just been the day that you were like, you know what? Today is not the day for you to fuck with me. Right. That's it.

I think to that same point, right? Again, my whole thing at all times, and I think, man, I just want to call some out. If everybody who's going to watch this and listen to this, man's my man. So we can disagree. That's my guy. Yeah. We disagreeing on nuances. I haven't talked to Rachel yet, but Rachel, we're cool.

I followed you on the IG a second ago. We cool. We cool. But I want to say that, again, my whole thing is blackness is not a monolith. And I think that excessive things only happen to black people in conversation. A white person can have a different reaction to something than another white person, but we're the only ones that we microanalyze and say, well, you know, you know where I saw Ms. Jones's tweet? I saw Ms. Jones's tweet on Tucker Carlson, right?

I saw him as Joe on Tucker. Was it really? It was Ben Shapiro shared it. Oh, my God. No! Oh! Ben Shapiro shared it. Oh, my God.

Matt Walsh. Yeah, they used it. They used it as a talking point. Right. I was, but it's the tweet that made me reach out because I was wondering how you felt about just answer that question. How did you feel in the moment when you saw her tweet that? You know,

um, well, especially the, where I saw it. I saw it when Ben Shapiro used it. But, um, you know,

I felt, um, Brett, keep it real. Blackness is not a monolith. You know, I move, I move in the ways that I move,

right? The same way you said, oh, you would call the police. Mm-hmm. Like, like, I'm,

I'm in an interesting space in my life. I'm from the projects and also have money now, right? I'm from the dirt, you know, from nothing and have a platform now, right? So for me, I'm always navigating multiple things. I'm not just somebody who's online and has hundreds of thousands of followers. I'm also somebody's fiance, right? I'm also somebody's son. I'm somebody's brother, so on and so forth, right?

So like to your point, in terms of what you would have done, I'm navigating all these things at the exact same time. That video, as an example, was posted, like five minutes after the thing took place, right? So I'm all over the place at that time. I'm not Fred T. Joseph. Joseph, the citizen who is dealing with a moment of racism, right? And wants some accountability because it's unacceptable in any space. I saw people saying your fiancé should have beat her ass. I saw people saying you should have filed charges.

I saw people saying, how you don't let this white girl talk to you smack her? I'm like, right. I'd be dead right now. But besides that, right? By the way, that just happened. Two people out on bail right now. We'll talk about it. Two people out on bail right now claim that the guy complimented his girlfriend, shot him dead.

This is what I'm talking about, though, man. That's what I'm saying? Like, what do y'all? What do y'all want? And just to be true, just, I got all, everybody. But to the point, I'm going to answer the question very directly. I mind my black business. I mind my black business, especially when it pertains to black people.

If you told me that I, y'all on Spotify, right? If you told me that Spotify wasn't bringing a bag, I'm probably just like retweet. I don't even know if you're lying or not, but retweet, right? Because that's how I get down. But if you said, hey, this thing happened and they just gave Joe Rogan 100 M's, but we only got, I'm like, damn, you know what? I don't know if they got Joe Rogan's audience, but you know what? I'm not going to say enough thing because that, you know, whatever.

I'm like my black business. And I don't let myself get used in a way where white supremacists can try to pit black people against each other. Because I, you know, I am accessible. Man, you hit me on to my DM and I hit you back. Bet, I will pull up. Let's do it. I'm transparent. I am real.

I'm not going to get up here and be CNN for it. I'm going to get up here and be. Yonkers. Yeah, Yonkers. That gold chain. We got to. The three of us are. Right now, this is a family conversation.

Right. I just need to stay in the family. And that's so overall that things hurt. When I see black people in general feeling like they have to pile on, that hurts because you can also hit me on my line. We are all connected in some way. When you're a black person, we can all get in contact with each other. You know what was?

The funny thing is I saw somebody else. I saw somebody else that I, that follows me that's very prominent. in the space react the same way that Nicole did. And I hit them up so I could talk to them. I'm like, yo, we should have this conversation because I'm thinking to myself, and I didn't, I don't really know this person that well. I'm thinking to myself, we should have a conversation about this internally. We should have a fireside chat before y'all just start going on Twitter and like doing

what it is that you're doing. And the purpose of the, the purpose of the conversation for me today was to look at this from all sides so that people understand. the elements of it that don't get put in a Twitter situation. And I don't have to agree with every single part of it, right? But once again, I think you did a great job of putting out the fact basically it's your life. Right. You can't ever put back karma into the world and expect a good result.

So whatever happens to her is based upon what she did. Last question I will ask you is this, though. I want to talk to Rachel about something. Me and Rachel are going to have a conversation about something. analogous to this after you leave. But last question I want to ask you is this, though. Do you think just out there, this lady, I guess her name is Emma, do you think that she is a racist?

I think that the same way I think that all men within a patriarchal system have misogynistic tendencies nine times out of ten, that's how I feel about white people, right? Oh, we are. We live in a white supremacist society, right, a country that's founded upon white supremacy, which is why we have very quickly gone to her being a victim and me being a villain, as opposed to even if they wanted to frame it as two victims. I'm no longer a victim. I am absolutely a villain in a national zeitgeist right now.

And that's in large part because we live in a white supremacist society. That being said, I think that all white people benefit from that, and because they benefit from that, if you're complicit in it or actively upholding it, then that makes you a racist, right? I think that there's also nuance to what she did because it's not just about her saying, go back to your hood or stay in your hood or whatever she said. It's that she thought that she could invade my bodily autonomy, right, with no repercussions. That's number one.

She also has full awareness of her white womanhood and how she quickly tried to victimize and be like, oh, you said this to me. And then also fully understand the dynamics between her and white man, when a white man cooperated our story, how she had to get out of there and start quickly trying to undermine the entire situation. That being said, while she, from my mind, what she did was racist, and while she might not be an overt racist or white supremacist, racism is a spectrum, right? Donald Trump is a white supremacist, and Joe Biden has said some racist things.

Those two things can exist in the same exact way, in the same exact space, on the same exact spectrum. And the last thing I'm going to say real quick about unethical use of platform and stuff like that, you know, I think that for people who have a platform, like to me, this is healthy, right? This is dialogue. This is how black people, people in general from different community, whatever, should have conversation. When I see people, especially black people, on a public platform giving, having discourse about something that could be behind doors because all it's doing is adding to the high on of another black person.

And also erasing the work that I actively do. It's hard. Like, it's erasing. Amazing work that he does. Yeah. It's erasing the work that I do. You could have a conversation. That to me is unethical for me.

That's, that's unethical for black people to have to have discourse amongst black people in a public white space. Because that's what Twitter is. Twitter is a white space. We live in a white country. Twitter is a white space owned by white people. And if that discourse is now being leveraged by Fox News, we got. got it wrong somewhere along the way.

Somewhere along the way. You can disagree with me. And also the same people who are sending me bomb threats are now using those tweets by other black people to validate the bomb threats to my house. They do that every time. Well, she said, you know, I can tell you how many times people want to tell me what Candace Owen said. Are you going to talk.

And Nicole Hannah Jones, not the same person. Just want to make sure that we're not saying that. No, people know that. I don't even want people to think that's what I'm saying. I'm just saying that they will take it. Oh, this black person said that. You need to think more like that black person. That's the whole purpose of retwitting, tweeting those people.

Are you going to talk to me about Chris Harrison, man? No. Okay. I want to, I just want to give you the, I just want to give you the opportunity to talk about these three books that you have dropping next year. Appreciate it. Patriarchy Blues comes out next May from Harper Collins. That's reflections on black manhood.

Much of this stuff type of stuff is in that. Just talking about being a black man in society, trying to help us get it right. The next book after that is co-author, my fiance, better than we found it. In that book, we feature Elizabeth Warren, Julian Castro, Chelsea Clinton, Nick Stone, all sorts of amazing people.

And that's just helping young people be more progressive, understand gun violence, understand health care, understand why certain things are happening in this country and just trying to get young people to go in the right direction. The last book I'm not allowed to announce. It's with, yeah, something pertaining to something. I can't announce that. Yeah.

You guys don't know that the last, Robert, like, Fred's last book is co-author with him and R. Kelly. It's called My Struggle. You know what it is? Van don't want me to be a whole person. He got to get, I lost, I lost,

Miss Jones already. He tried to get me to lose Oprah and all these other black people. No, you ain't lost. You ain't lost. You ain't lost. lost nobody. I'll tell you guys right now, Fred is one of the most solid guys in this entire deal. I've talked to Fred about all kinds of different things. And he's one of the few people that I call my homeboy that has actually put some fucking money in my pocket, by the way.

So I really appreciate you talking, bro. I think all the questions are answered, man, which you must success. We're going to have you back on with those bookshops, okay? Absolutely. I appreciate you. Nice to meet you. Congratulations on your engagement, too. Congratulations on your engagement. Have a good one. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business, fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more.

Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need weather tech floor liners in the summer, unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner. Or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer.

Visit weathertech.com today. Post interview question, something that that you're going to. ask me about Chris. I'll never bring up soup kitchen. That was a great conversation, by the way. He's an amazing guy. He's an amazing guy. You know, he's an amazing guy.

We just got to make sure that we pull in each other's coats and making sure, but his code is obviously on right. Challenge each other. On right. Something jumped into my mind when we're talking about, not about soup kitchen and Jesse Palmer, which we have to do a Bachelor episode of Higher Learning to keep up with the latest batch news because I'm getting batch news sent to me,

but I miss batch. There's a lot happening in Bachelor World. seasons about to start with the Black Bachelorette if you want. Rache, I miss Batch. No. I do. I don't. I miss Batch.

I don't. I don't. Rache, we have to come back to Batch. Back to Batch. Okay, here's the thing. We will watch the first night episode for Michelle because those are always interesting. Together. Together.

We'll watch it together. That's been like two weeks. We will watch it together. That's what we'll do. And then we'll do a batch. I'm back to back to batch. Question. As we were having that conversation, something jumped in my mind.

And this is seriously not to call you out is to get the answer. Okay. Do you remember when the girl made the TikTok video about you? Yes. And the video was about a bad interaction from her side with you to where she's, she's, it's not obviously allegations of racism, but in a way she was talking about like celebrity privilege and all of that stuff like that. Yeah.

I thought that that was a, I thought that that was a poor thing. to do in that situation because I thought somebody's getting on a plane, people are in all kinds of moods. Do you think that there's anything that's analogous to that in the fact that she was just reacting to what she felt like was her interaction with you? Was she? Is that what you think she was doing? Because to me, it was so much more than that. Because she didn't just talk about me. She talked about two other white women. And when she introed them, it was a totally different sentiment than when she came to me, not just talking about me, but talking about the show I was on. I also think it goes deeper than that because I didn't ask, first of all, she lied on me.

That could not have been farther from the truth of exactly what happened. I never did some of the things that she accused me of doing. And she had no problem using my name and a story about me while I am paying for your services to your company to go to travel on a trip, minding my own business, you're no problem using my name for followers, for likes, for repost, for attention. So I had no problem when I came on this podcast and I said, she works for American Airlines. She didn't tell you all that. Didn't I say that? I said, she works for American Airlines. And I, and I have a huge issue with the fact that I fly American Airlines executive platinum and your steward. And that's, that's not the word to say,

flight attendant. Look at you. Being problematic. Call myself, your flight attendants are telling stories about their very customers that pay for those flights. I had no problem saying where she worked. I didn't go on and at American Airlines, probably because I don't have TikTok and I don't have access to the video. Maybe I would have. Right. And so I guess my whole thing and even in the talk with Frederick is like there is a space

and he comported himself like I knew he would. There is a space that exists like in the fat of all of these. these things. Like there's a space that exists in the fat. And I know we don't want to, we're not, maybe we're not to the point to where we can talk about it yet. But there's a space that exists in the fat of all of this. Sometimes it's not an amides in the fat, right?

And it's like, you can get drunk, have a bad night, and still not be Bull Connor. And do you know how I know that that's the truth? Because Joe Biden, the president that we all voted for, locked up more niggas. and said more racist shit than almost any other person. Like he is locked up more niggas, Joe Biden. He called Barack Obama clean and articulate. He said some crazy shit about Haiti. Yet and still, we look past it when he has something.

So I know that people understand that sometimes it's in the meat and sometimes it's in the fat. Fred did what he had to do. Can't hate on him. Can't hate on them. But at the same time, we are, it is, we are getting to a point to maybe where we're getting to sort of a lynch mob mentality, like anytime we feel slighted on social media. Well, here's the thing. And that's how I felt about that girl that made that video about you.

And I was like, what, to me, my thing is, what if Rachel was tired? What if she don't like the cheese on her sandwich? Is that worth going to the thing and making the, like, and making the TikTok video about it? Because she wanted people. I got messages. Before you even told me, I was like, Why is everybody talking to me about some flight I was on? I got messages telling me how awful of a human being I was because of that girl's video.

So my thing is, what was the purpose of you putting up that video? Which is why I did agree with you when we were talking to Fred. And you said, you got her fired. And I said indirectly. When he added the company, you knew what was a possibility, what was on the table. It could have been training. It could have been suspension. It could have been firing.

You didn't care what option came about with that. That's how this girl was, right? Just like when I said it was American Airlines. If they fired her, she's the one who was tell who she's the one. I could I could give a fuck if she got fired. Because in your, in the capacity of your job, you decided to talk about one of your customers. So to me is if you want to be public and put all this out there, then guess what? I get to do the exact same thing.

And whatever those repercussions are, those are those repercussions. But I do agree with you that it allows an audience of people, what you say, the lynch mob, to take it and do what they want to it. And that's where things can, the problem can be because that didn't always exist. Social media has been around for a long time. Lynch mob didn't always exist with social media.

Now it's getting bigger. It's getting bigger. Speaking of white women, harassing black men. Ellen Pompeo, okay? Ellen Pompeo is in the crosshairs. She's on the crosshairs of black Twitter She recalls going at it

With Denzel Washington on Graves Anatomy set She has her own podcast now Tell Me with Ellen And she talked to Patrick Dempsey A reunion Of Meredith and McDreamy A reunion I watched this show

Insofar as Kalika won't stop watching it Gotcha So a reunion She's talking to Patrick Dempsey And she said the following About her interaction with Denzel Washington Who had directed an episode of Grey's Anatomy

She said She was improvising with the character And I was like, look at me Look at me when you apologize Look at me She recalled yelling at the actor During the scene And that wasn't in the dialogue

She was going off script And Denzel went ham on my ass He was like, I'm the director Don't you tell him what to do Ellen turned around and was like, listen, motherfucker, this is my show. This is my set. Who are you telling? She then clarified that she has the utmost respect for Denzel Washington.

People were pissed the fuck off about this. Very upset that she talked to our Nobel laureate of acting. Or Sir Lawrence Negroye. are Sydney Portier our shining beacon of acting artistry Denzel Washington. She spoke to him like that.

What did you think of this story, Rachel? I wasn't up in arms like Black Twitter was and I guess I just looked at this as and I remember this episode. It is a very, very dramatic episode. You guys should see it if you haven't.

Look it up. You don't need any context. You can just watch it standing alone. to me, I felt like she matched his energy. She said that he went ham on her and was like, I'm the director, don't you tell him what to do. And it seems like she matched his energy and was like, listen, I don't know who you are.

This is your first day on the job, but I've been doing this for 16 seasons. This is my show. So I guess I can see. why people reacted that way. But in my opinion, I'm like, okay, he went off on her. She went off on him. Seems like they had a disagreement creatively.

And then they were able to respect each other and move on and produce a fantastic episode. Annoyed the shit out of me. Okay. Anoyed the shit out of me, not because it's a big deal, but just because if Martin Scorsese had been sitting. in on an episode of Gray's Anatomy, I don't think she would have done that to him.

We'll never know. And so my thing is, she said something in there that's factually inaccurate. She said, this is my show. This is my set. That's not true. If Denzel is in that director's chair, he is in fucking charge. Like, if he's sitting in that director's chair, Denzel Washington, Two-time Academy Award winner, right?

If he's sitting in that director's chair, he's in charge. And what he was trying to do was conduct shit around the set with the authority that a director has. Now, I'm not saying he was right for getting at her for going off script. I'm sure she has creative license to go off script. But I don't know, man. I think a lot of people are like, don't talk to Denzel like that. And I think, and I get it. And I will be the first to say, I'm a little biased.

You can catch me on Tell Me with Ellen Pompeo in a couple of weeks. Oh, wait, what? Yeah, we had a great conversation and we talked about bachelor stuff. We talked about race. We talked about being women. And I can add more context to who I think she is as a person, which is why I don't take it as a one-off and just, you know, people who, what? Am I wrong in that?

Why are your eyes? I am flabbergasted that you just said that. Why? After you skewered me over the care and civil thing and then sicked all of the thought layers on me. Let me tell you the difference with what I just did. I acknowledged my bias. I just said that.

You never did. You claimed you didn't have it. No, no, no. Maybe I said, no. Because I kept saying, you're biased, you're biased. Okay, maybe you did. I said, I know Karen. I said, I told you that I knew Karen.

You said you know her. I didn't say I know Ellen. I said I am biased in my opinion because, and I'm telling you why I am. So I feel like I'm acknowledging something that you didn't do. Because that's why people got on to you because they said that, no, they said, I was, I was introducing Karen before I even got a chance to say it. Like I didn't even get a chance to say it. I'm describing Karen as what she is.

I'm introducing Karen. And before I could even get the introduction out, you were already on my ass. A hundred percent was. I own that. Like a hundred percent. So I'm just. And then further into the conversation, you even more so showed your bias. And I'm acknowledging mine right now.

I'm admitting it. That's why I'm saying this I've said because people will hear me on the podcast in a few weeks. Like, oh, Rachel was saying that because she's friendly with her. I'm biased because I can add a little bit more just like Karen, you could. I acknowledged that when I was talking to you. I was like, look, I get it. You know her in a way that I never will. So I'm only going, or I don't, I guess I shouldn't say I never will, but the way that I currently don't.

Oh, you never will now. Okay, I never will. Next. So I'm just more so giving my opinion based off of what I've read and what's out there. That's what other people are doing too. So I'm acknowledging that I'm coming in with some other information. But I understand why people have that reaction. I do.

Now, do you think that she puts you on the, podcast after she made this revelation about Denzel Washington just to cover her track she was like I said that about Denzel no because Yara Shihadi's on the podcast too yeah but Yara Yara doesn't bring the Yara doesn't have any scalps on the wall y'all Yara doesn't have to say by the way I apologize to the indigenous communities that listen to our show they're very dedicated thought words I just said that it's something I've been saying my whole life. I will never use that term again,

scouts on the wall. I apologize to them for saying that. But, you know, Yara, y'all ain't got no notches. Yara's an activist. She is. And so, no, to answer your original question, I do not think that's why she had me on the body.

Do you know what bothers me about it, though, more than anything, though? What bothers me? Is that it's not even the fact that that happened because that could happen. And by the way, she's been on Grey's Anatomy for a long time. So in a way, it is her show.

Well, not in a way. It fucking is her show. I do think it's... It's called Gray's. I know. But I do still think it's his set, though. And that goes for any director that's in that director's show. So it's still his set, right?

But what bothers me is that she was, like, bragging about it. Like, I son Denzel Washington. I don't... I didn't get that. I got that she was telling a story. Like, ooh, let me tell you this one time. What happened? He went ham on my ass is what she said.

And then she, And then she said like, kind of like, and I went back at him. And she's, yeah, I think she told a story. I didn't get the bragging part, but whatever. I'm biased. That's your home girl. Just, I just want everybody to pay attention.

Because it happens. It happens to people. We have, we have. But you got to own it. And I'm owning it. Look, look. Look, look. What I'm saying is it happens.

We know people. We've been around. And I just know she's not like that. That's what I know she's not like them. Hmm. I could say something right now, but I won't. You say it off air then. I'll say it off air.

I'll say it off air. I'll say it all fair. I'll say it all fair. It's happened again. And I kind of don't understand why it continues to happen. Black Twitter is up in arms. A lot of people are up in arms about a new movie. I blame all the rage on Black Twitter.

About the new movie, the harder they fall. The harder they fall is a movie that we cannot wait for it to come out. Have you seen it? I have not seen it yet. Have you? No, but I will this weekend. Right. Regina King, Lekeiths, Dan's Field, Stanfield.

Idris Elba. Idris Elba. Everyone. And Zazi Beetz. Zazi Beets plays a character named Stage Coach Mary. Now, if you don't know who saves Coach Mary is, she is a real person and a big deal in African-American history. She is a woman that protected male from robbers.

All right. She's a legendary figure. We don't have very many legendary figures across the Ponderosa frontier that are black. But stagecoach Mary is definitely one of them. And she was the first to do it. She was the first to do it. She was born in 1832. At the age of 60, she became.

a stage coach male carrier, a dangerous job. Defending the male against bandits while driving across the U.S. an iconic figure due to her adventurous lifestyle, the first black woman to take on this perilous job. Okay. She started this at the age of 60, Mary Fields. Mary Fields was a larger dark-skinned black lady. And that is a part of the legend of stagecoach Mary.

Correct. She's being played in this movie by Zazzy Beets. If you guys know who Zazzy Beets is, she played Domino in Depple II. She also played Van in Atlanta. She is not a larger black lady. She is a smaller, fair-skinned black lady who is an amazing actress, but people saw the picture. People know who Mary is in real life. And people are upset.

Rachel. She's by Rachel. She's by Rachel. She's by Rachel. She's by Rachel. When you saw the pictures, were you pissed off at this? Pissed off is a strong word. I'm more confused. And you say you have friends that worked on this movie. With all the people, black people who were involved, you know who stage coach Mary is. This is no knock to Zazzy, because she's a great actress. But why? when there were so many other black women you could have chosen for this role.

And I think what's disturbing is for those of you who have no idea who stage coach Mary is and you watch this movie for the first time, that is your depiction of who she is and it looks nothing like her. And I think that's what's disturbing is you're rewriting a historical black figure

and a renowned one at that. I got to thinking. I said, she's very popular. I'm sure she's been played before. So I looked up the actresses who have played her before. None of them look anything like Zazzy. Esterol. Oh, yeah. That's stage Coach Mary right there. That's like Coach Mary right there. Esterol played her in a documentary. Don Lewis, also known as Jalisa, from Different World, played her. Kimberly Elise played her. Erica Badu played her. And then the next person is that.

What did Erica Badu play her in? In a short Western called They Die by Dawn. 2013. I haven't seen that. I might have to check that out. In 2013, my point being is there were plenty of other. If you look at the women who have played stage coach Mary, who've been casted for her to play that role.

And then you look at Zazzy. and then you look at all the other available black women who are actors, it doesn't make sense in casting as to why you chose Zazzy. And that's not a personal knocktwart her. It's just more about honoring the legacy and the depiction of stage coach Mary. So this is my thing, and that's all very well said. My thing is, are you trying to piss people off? I'm just asking, they're not going to fucking sleep on it.

Well, it, it, that will's the last time they missed. They're not going to miss. Nina, Nina. No. They got on their ass about that. No,

but I'm just saying missed in casting. Sorry, I thought that's what you said. Oh, no. Oh, no. Nina Simone. They did it.

They did it. Come on, man. Come on, man. It's like, for real. Like, why, bro? Like, I just ask, like, I love,

I love, I love them. We're going to get some of them. I'm going to get some of them. I'm going to be honest with you. Why was she? Why would Zazzy say yes? Why would Zazzy say yes? That's what I want to know too.

You had to look up stage coach Mary to play her. Now, this is the conversation. Okay. Now we're talking about people who have made decisions. Studios made decisions based upon dollars and cents. They're going to say, hey, we're going to cast Zazzy Beats because we don't really know. The harder they fall, it's not going to be a movie that's like based in history. They're going to have some historical characters in it, but, you know, they might be doing

different things like a holy and glorious bachelor's thing you know studio might be thinking hey get zazzy beats for stage coach mary because zazzy beats he's going to put butts in the seats people like her from different things we're trying to get the biggest names on the cast that we can i'm not saying that you couldn't find an actress like that but that's what they're going to say or bigger so call a stage coach carry then stage coach carry i'll try to think of another name was stage coach damn i can't think of a name i was thinking Larry they change it stage coach Larry um um That's the question.

The studio doing what the studio did is one thing. If you're Zazi Beetz, was it right for her to take the role? In essence, I'm asking, is this really Zazzy Beetz's fault? The studio is going to studio. But is it really her fault for actually taking the role? Is it her not her fault? I'll reframe that. Was it Zazzy Beetz's responsibility to say no to the role of stage coach Mary?

So the reason I say yes is because first of all, it's no, it's casting for sure. But casting messed it up. And now they come to you and they're offering you the role of stage coach, Mary. Then the responsibility falls on you to make a decision. Because the only reason, there's two things. could think of. Why would you say yes? Because you want to be in the movie. Because you want to be in the movie. You want the recognition

or you want the money. Well yeah, you want to be, but you know, you're an actor. You want to keep doing roles that are going to challenge you and stuff. You want to be in a movie. You want to be in a movie. That's why you're going to be. Yeah. But I guess, well, then I have three. Because I was going to say the recognition, to be a part of this movie, the money. And the third one is because

maybe you really admire her. But if you really admired her and you saw who she is and you're portraying her and the depiction of her, then you'd want to do the role justice. I'm not saying she can't act and do the role justice. I'm just saying portraying her. Because how they're going to make, no, I've seen how they make her look. Never mind.

She's just, she looks like herself. Don't even try to make her look. Don't even try to make her look. It's not a need. If they had darkened her, that would be worse. Well, we've seen it done before. And even if she's playing a young stage coach, Mary, because maybe she's not playing stage coach Mary after she was 60, even if she's playing a young stage coach,

Mary, being out in the front team. here ain't that much sun. You're not going from a zazzy beast to her ester role. Well, check this out. That ain't going to happen. Stage coach Mary was never young as stage coach Mary. She became stage coach Mary in her 60s. But maybe this is before she was stage coach Mary,

but we're calling her stage coach Mary because we know her as stage coach Mary. But this is maybe she's carrying a gun. I know. But maybe stage coach Mary got it popping as a kid. I do like the fact that we're talking about stage coach Mary, though. I love that. That's cool. That's something that they only teach you during black.

Black History Month. Well, they're still got to do some teaching because, again, I said, if you never knew who she was and you saw her and then you see a picture of the real one and you're like, no, no, no, I just watch Stage Coach Mary in a movie. That's not Stage Coach Mary. Yeah. By the way. And why do they do that with us?

What you mean? Like, I feel like when it comes, when it's white people, they don't get them dressed. Can you think of a historical depiction of a white person that they just were so off on? they kind of do it a lot I mean Leonardo DiCaprio played Jagger Hoover come on man

like fucking Leonardo DiCaprio as Jaeger Hoover that's like fucking nuts I mean they say I mean it's like you know what I mean if you know what Jay over Hoover looks like

it's like they do it sometimes they don't do it too well because like because there's less shades of white point taken because there's less shades of white it's like not the same thing but I tell you one thing

I remember very vividly um Angelina Jolie playing Daniel Pearl's wife who was black and who is black who people don't remember that

A Mighty Wind a Mighty Heart Oh yeah she has like curly hair in it Yeah Yeah yeah you know So I don't know It's uh it's tough It happens sometimes. And it happens to us.

Look, we have a diaspora of complexions, a diaspora. A diaspora of complexions. But we have to be loyal to those complexions. And this thing, we're making, we're having fun. But yo, this goes, this definitely hits. It's deep. It cuts deep to people. There are plenty of qualified.

It's like when there's finally a role, there's not many roles that come along unless they're created for darker skin women. So here's one that's a no-brainer, and they still don't get the role. But once again, because a lot of people were talking about Zazzy Beetz, I'm not so sure that I think it's Zazzy Beetz's responsibility. Yes, I do. Yeah, I was going to call. I just don't see how you can see it any other way.

And I would love to hear what she has to say. Oh, you're going to hear it. Well, I think I interview her on Sunday. You're going to interview first. You're going to ask her, you're going to ask her, you interview her for extra? Uh-huh. You're not going to ask her on extra. I love a dare.

You're not going to, I dare you to ask her. I dare you to ask her on extra. Done. The question is, we'll extra air it. Well, extra air. You're going to send it. And let me tell you something. If I don't ask, it's because they told me not to.

They told you not to ask. They told me not to. But see, extra, man, look, extra. Not extra. I'm saying her PR. You know how like PR will come in and be like, don't ask this question. Hey, yo, extra, man. Stop being pussy, man.

I'm going back to my toxic youth when I used to use terms that were rooted in such massaging hey man stop being pussy with that shit man let Rachel cook man let her ass her shit man Is that how you talked as a child That's how I tried to talk I can tell triving the keyword That's how I tried to talk

You sound like how I would sound like saying that Yeah I was like man Van every time somebody used to say I talk like a white boy I had to fight him Bing bing pow You fought I cried Right. No, I had to fight them. Oh, for real? Oh, for real? All right, cool. I'm going to run into your ass. That's what we used to say in Baton Rouge. I'm going to run into you, nigga. Did you know about one and three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriatic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you?

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This episode is brought to you by Viori. When it comes to clothes that score high in both comfort and style, Viori is my MVP. Sunday performance joggers, oh yeah. They have the perfect. I could watch a game and then go out to dinner vibe. And the metapant, that's my number one. I need to look like I tried option. Get 20% off your first purchase at Viori.com slash Simmons and discover the versatility of Viori

clothing. Exclusions apply, visit the website for full terms and conditions. Okay. Now, we have a very sad story to report. You know what? Before we go to that story, Britney Spears, let's stay on the lighter fare before we get to this story, because we're going to need the thought warriors out there to spring into action here. But I want to talk about Britney Spears because we haven't talked about this yet. I don't know very much about it. But Britney Spears' dad got kicked out of being the captain of the Britney Spearship? How could that happen? So tell me what, like, what the fuck is going on?

He's not Jamie, right? He's Jamie. Yeah, Jamie. Jamie's her dad. Jamie Spears. He has been the conservator of her, conservator of her estate and personal for 13 years. Now, recently he's been removed from the personal side of it and they put Jody Montgomery in, but he is the conservator of her estate, meaning that he.

he is in control of all of her assets, her money, all of the, and how she spends it and everything. He pays himself a salary, and that's one of the things that came out in court. So yesterday,

so this is a battle that's been going on for a long time. If you recall, 13 years ago, that's when there were the 5150s, you know, in regards to Britney Spears. She was hospitalized.

They did a mental evaluation, and they found that she was not capable of being in control of herself and her money and with her children. And so her father stepped in to take care of her and that and all of that. But 13 years later, you started to see, well, really before that, this free Britney movement because these super fans were starting to say Jamie is mishandling her money and her affairs and he's controlling.

People wrote that off as they were crazy and they were just super fans who were just, you know, had nothing better to do. Well, it turned out there was, where there was smoke, there was some fire and they were right. And so Brittany's attorney has been trying to get him removed as the person, running her estate, wanting to appoint other people who they felt were more trustworthy, and he has been fighting her in court. Well, finally, yesterday, with a new attorney who's been on less than six months, they were successful in court in getting him suspended as the conservator of her state, meaning he was removed completely from it. They temporarily, like immediately,

and they temporarily appointed someone else. And then in 30 to 45 days, actually they set the date November 12th, there will be a termination hearing, and they will completely get rid of her conservatorship, meaning she will be free. There will no longer, he will no longer be saying free Britney, she will be free. Unless there's some things that still have to be tied up with her estate. It's a $60 million estate approximately. You've got a new person coming in who's got to go through all the paperwork, handling everything. So hopefully he can get it done by that time.

Now, here's what happened in court. I was sitting in the courtroom. I've got to say, it felt good to be in court. I was sitting in the courtroom. Two arguments they were being had. Nobody is contesting the ending of the conservatorship. The dad wanted it ended yesterday completely. Not suspended or removed.

He wanted it ended that he wanted to see the rest of it through while they were handling out the rest of the estate. Brittany's attorney was arguing for him to be suspended and removed. So then someone else could step in and look at all the discovery, all the paperwork to see what had been done over the last 13 years because they're actually. is that there's some criminal behavior. Criminal, like stealing money and shit? Money, um, mishandling of her assets.

They say that he was an alcoholic. They said Brittany was, Brittany testified back in June. That was a big deal as well. That she was in fear of him, that he has been cruel, he's been abusive, he's been toxic and all these certain allegations. And what recently toxic, I know,

I know. And what recently came out was a documentary and they talked about this in court, New York Times dropped this big bombshell from someone who was a whistleblower, basically with the security firm that said the dad had her bedroom bugged. So he could hear her attorney-client privileged communications. He could hear communications with her children. He had her phone cloned to an iPad. He could hear communications with her boyfriend and all these things. So they were using this as evidence as well to fight for Britney's freedom in court.

And the judge, a black woman, sided with Brittany's attorney. And so that's what's come about. But as a post press conference, Brittany's attorney said they're going to look into the family. What a fabulous rundown of all of that. I was in court. You were getting it. You were right there.

I had a phone taken away from me. I was writing notes. I was in it. In it. Brittany should remix Toxic. And make it about her dad. Oh, Jamie Lynn, you're all down. Jamie Lynn is her sister

I thought Jamie Lynn was her dad Jamie Lynn is her mom and the sister's name is Jamie Lynn I almost had it That was going to be a top 10 tune I've been making them so many good reps So what happens to Brittany now Like she she

So after the conservatorship is over Then Brittany like just has full control Of all her shit Full control She can do Now Do whatever she wants I wonder if in this didn't really come up

Jamie's attorney tried to mention it. She was kind of like, there's a reason that this hall started, and it was based off a mental evaluation that was done on Brittany. So I don't know if it will be required that she will have to have another mental evaluation before the whole thing can end. I'm not sure. Every time somebody says that what TMZ does is harmless and they never killed anyone, I think about Britney Spears.

And I'm not saying, saying that them alone, I wasn't there when this was going on. I'm just saying the whole thing. Every time they say that like these things are victimless crimes and look, I was right there for nine years being a part of the whole thing, cash in a check, being on TV, doing my thing. There's no, there's no way around it, right? But every single time I think about, you know, when people talk about, hey, it's just it's part of being famous and nobody gets heard. And I think about Britney Spears. Hey, Joe, that girl crazy.

You should watch framing Britney Spears. I can't watch it. I can't watch people devolve down and go down mentally. I can't watch it. It's like our Kelly, when we were talking about how we turned the blind eye, we saw it, we heard about it,

and we just wrote it off as something else. We laughed at it because, you know what? Because there's a part of us that wants to believe that all the people out there in Hollywood are as highly weird as we think they are. That they're not, that there's something.

And we have no part in it. We have no part in it. So Britney shaves her hair off. I'm like, oh my God. We used to make fun of that out on a Timsy tour. That was her having a breakdown. Brittany hit somebody with the umbrella is like, she's trying to say, stop it. Leave me alone.

Yeah. They interview that guy actually on the framing Britney. Oh, I know who these guys are. I used to run around the town with those guys. I used to see those guys. Some of them, to be honest with you, some of them are just dudes trying to make a living, taking pictures. And then some of them are absolutely.

pathetic pieces of shit. I knew a lot of great guys out there, a lot of great guys out there that were just taking pictures. Taking pictures. One dude I knew was the best spotter ever. He was just a cool dude taking pictures. But then some of them, so I remember Gerard Butler was walking down the beach in Malibu or walking down the street in Malibu and they were taking pictures of him. And he goes, man, how many pictures are you guys going to take? Because they have been shooting them for a while. He goes, and the guy goes, about 15,000 just stands. still, okay? And I'm like, oh, geez.

It's dirty. But by the way, it's all dried up now. Papparazzi? It's not as big as it once was, man. It's changed. That's because social media, too. Yeah, it's, that's definitely, it's, things are different. I'm sure people are out there still getting the paycheck, but I used to be able to, I used to be able to be around on the street and you'd see them. Like, there was a point, like, you'd see him everywhere. I know the spots to go. But anyway, so I hope Brittany's okay. Hope Britney's okay.

So there's a story out of Oregon right now that's just starting to make the rounds. It is the sad story of the end of Barry Washington Jr.'s life. He is a black man who was shot and killed by Ian Cranston, allegedly because he gave Ian's girlfriend, Allie Butler, a compliment. The way this goes was they were outside of a bar in central Oregon on September 19th when allegedly Barry Washington. Washington Jr. A complimented or said something to Ali Butler, which made Ian Cranston pull out his gun, shoot Barry Washington, Jr.

He died. Cranston was arrested for the shooting. I think he was arrested on a manslaughter charge. He was later released after he posted bail. He will have his court appearance on October the 5th. He is currently free. Both of them are. There was a video that was

released by Allie Butler, who is the girlfriend in this particular situation. And it was played on the news up there in Oregon. Now, there might be more details to come from this. There might be more details that shed some light on exactly what went down. As for right now, this is kind of all of the details that you get. The video itself is kind of hard to watch. You see some people there hesitant to actually call the police from what I've been told. I haven't seen it yet.

But from what I'm told, the video is hard to watch. I did not want to watch it. I'm sorry for the thought wars for not having watched the video and that it shows people not running to the aid of Barry Washington, Jr. immediately after he was shot. You guys are going to watch the video if you do choose to and make that determination for yourself. This was brought to my attention because these people are free and walking around

after posting bail for having killed someone. And posting a video. Yeah, and giving the video to people. I don't know how that works. And the video that I saw breaking this entire thing down compares it to Emmett Till. And at least right now until we get more details until we learn the ends and out, the ups and downs of this, it seems eerily reminiscent of Emmett Till. You guys might remember Emmett Till's story. Of course, we hope that you would if you're listening to this podcast.

He was lynched, beaten, murdered back in the 50s for allegedly whistling at a white woman. Rachel, we don't know very much. Do you have any thoughts? I think the most disturbing thing to me is I didn't even hear this story until you said it's me. And I wonder how many other people out there have not heard it. And so I'm glad I have yet to watch the video. I don't know if I will. but I know Barry Washington Jr.'s name now,

and I know that I'm paying attention to this story, and I want to make sure that I can't use the word justice if it is exactly what we think it is, but I want to make sure that these people are held accountable for what they did, because it seems like they took this man's life in... I'll be paying attention, and we'll keep people updating.

We need everybody. We need every... body to be on top of this story where it is that there was some racial slurs used in the video uh i guess i would um i guess i have to watch it uh there are a different sort of um they're different sort of uh accounts one account claims that there was some sort of scuffle before that there might have been some sort of fight uh but in anyway uh very washington Jr. has been killed and his killers

will perhaps meet their justice on October 5th or that process will start. They posted bill. They're out doing their things, sending videos to the news while he is dead. All right.

Don't lose sight of this one. We're going to be on top of it. All right. A little dower, but time to get to mailback. Let's do it. Mailback time. Time to read you. letters and then we'll reply to them. Oh, it's mailback time.

Write us with your queries and we'll chime in. From Sierra Broin. What's your favorite double standard? My favorite double standard? What's my favorite double? The N word. It's a good one. The N-word is my favorite double standard because

it's the only thing that makes white people dumb. White people in every other situation want to tell you how smart they are for no reason. You're talking to a white person. They're like, hey, bet you didn't know a white man invented the fucking airplane. I'm like, yeah, I know it. I get it.

You guys had some accomplishments. All rooted in tyranny, but you have some accomplishments. All of these dudes that just want to throw their intellectual weight around, they think they're smart, they think there is. Bring up the N-word. I just don't understand. I don't know what you mean. I don't like I can't say it.

It doesn't make any sense that you could say it and I don't say it. Like I'm dumbfounded. I'm like I used to talk to people about it like, oh, you get everything else. Do you don't get the N word? They don't want to talk about it. They don't want to talk about it. They get it. Oh, they get it.

They don't want to talk about it. And that's the only time white people play dumb is the end word. Any other time they play superior. Any other time, I'm better than you. any other time they play superior. But that's why... You better stop throwing up the hooks. I know that.

I was doing like this. I know that. I always wanted to be one of the bros. It's never too late. Yes, it is, nigger. Yes, it is. The fuck. No, you can do a rat chapter.

What are you talking about? All right. It's never to late. Shout out to Omega Sopi. We ready? What's the next one? From Lady Bird underscore 610. what was your first experience with world star hip hop and by experience I think she means like first

video you watched oh who knows that's crazy that's tough I used to watch world star candy remember you just have the women on there no because I didn't remember that rest and peace Q I didn't obviously I'm familiar with world star hip hop but I would just watch it and be like it's tough but like you guys don't remember so there's a whole era and I want to do I want to do breakout podcasts about it. So there's a pre-instagram post-video vixen era that is really interesting for the video vixen type ladies.

Because Instagram now made all of these other platforms where you have to put your videos up, null and void, you don't need them. Like, you don't need World Star hip-hop to put your videos up now. You should put them on your Instagram. You got a million followers, whatever. Right.

But there was a time after the video vixen era was over. But right before the Instagram era really hit, that there was an influx of female lady shakers that had nowhere to go except for these sites that would put you on in these magazines like show and king and all of these places. And there was a whole group of them. And I wonder where they are now. I wonder.

You wonder where they are? I feel like I, what year would you say that ended? Because a lot of them you would see on while and out. No, no, no, no. I'm not talking about the awhile. I'm not talking about the ones that made it's a while and out. You're right, though.

No, the OG, like the original Wiling Out had the girls that were in the video. The ones you would recognize, the ones you keep seeing, and you were like, oh, that's so-and-so from this video. They were some of the OGs. See, but I'm not talking about them, man. I'm talking about Cubana Lust. You know what I mean? I'm talking about Marcia Renei.

You know, I'm talking about all of these girls. I'm talking about like the ones that, like, Cubana Lust. Cuban a lust. I'm talking about Cubana Luss, Marciaun Reney, Miss D.R. Like all of these ladies that were doing all of these, like them. Like they didn't make it to Wiling Out. I don't think they got to Wiling Out. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Do you see Cubana Lus right there? Kibonah Lus was a wave. She had a whole wave. She's a mugshot. Wait, what? Wait, what? Hold on.

Let me find it. Twitter says IG model Cubana lust Arrested for drugs Damn 2019 Oh shit What

Yeah That's sad That's sad That's sad That's sad man Because they're putting up her And she does definitely look familiar They're putting up her picture

And it's a cover of show It's a picture of her God damn Cubana lust Is there more information. Media takeout. Let's see.

Just five years ago, Cubana Lust was one of the most sought after Instagram models in the world. What year was this? This is media takeout. Today she's trending all over social media because on Twitter,

folks on Twitter found mugshots of a woman named Yolanda Kuala who was arrested on drug and paraphernalia charges. That's Cubana's real name. Damn, Cuba. 36. Yeah, so she was, yeah,

she was, because that would have been the age. she was in a little bit younger than me, you know, but still she had such a run. She had such a run. Damn, but see, the streets, man, we need, like, I'll say this is one thing that I'll say. There needs to be something to where the video models, much like the rappers, they need some kind of retirement plan. And the rappers need this too.

They need some kind of retirement plan. It needs to be like a union or a fund because this is what happens when rappers go to Trump. to a lot of people in industries. It's not particular just to them. I know you're partial. I'm very sorry. But yeah. All right. Next question. That's a fucking bummer.

Man, Chubana loves, man. I mean, I can't really put nothing on your books now because Kalika are not going to go for that shit. I was going to say. But, but shit, I was going to tell her. But I hope you do well out there. You know what I'm saying? I hope you're straight. All right.

What else we got? Last one. From Megatocin, I feel like I said that wrong. What's the most difficult thing you've dealt with since becoming famous? I'm not famous, but I will tell you, just the only thing I'll tell you is this. When I'm running, please do not tap me. Don't run up behind me and tap me. That's the only thing.

That's the most difficult thing you've dealt with. There's nothing else that's really difficult. I mean, it's like I'm not that famous to where it's a big deal. But what I'm saying is if I'm running and I got the music in my ear and then you run up behind me and all of a sudden I see a person on me and you tap me. Don't do that. You go, somebody going to get golf in their jaw. Like don't, don't do that. It scares the shit out of me every time.

And it happens all the time. I'm running. Ha, fat boy running. And somebody. You're running and people tap you. That means that there's a celebrity aspect to it. I'm saying, just don't do that. Come get in front of me.

Spinning a block. So I can see you coming because it's like it's scary. That's the only time. I get it. What about you? I would say, what was the question? What's the most difficult thing? What, flying first class?

No, I would say it's a comparison. Like I never really cared about it's such a different world from practicing law. Like you're almost judged if you come into a quarter. trying to like look a certain way and like people look at you like they don't take you as seriously. I mean, maybe things have changed, but sadly that's what a lot of men in the courtroom do to women. I would just say like comparing and I don't just mean looks just like with social media, with jobs, with, you know, like I just never have dealt with it to that level. And so sometimes I can see myself falling into this person as this. I need to do better. I need to do better.

It's yeah. And I never worried about that kind of stuff before. So I would say that's it's hard. That's actually a really great answer. Yeah, because that, that is tough. Because you want to, like, people, oh, sometimes it be like, oh, you left TMZ and you fell off and blah, blah, blah, blah. You want to. And you didn't. People felt like they got to see you, see exactly what you're doing to think that you're doing something. Yeah. See your mamas. How about that? Go see your mamas. Don't see me. See her. She miss you. I don't. See your motherfucking mama. All right. Do you have, I'm serious. You just pissed me off. have no unexpected ally.

I have no unexpected ally of the week either, but my, my, my unexpected ally. We don't have to cancel this segment. Not the segment doesn't work. Things are too bad. Trudy is up to you, Trudy, on God. It's on God. It's up to you to find an unexpected ally of the week every week. Because this whole time, I'm researching shit about, uh, fucking Fred.

Listen, thought worries, I need y'all to send me some unexpected allies because the white people don't be white people in all the time. Yeah, they don't. Sometimes they cool. Look, Star Wars, we are now turning this segment over to you. Send us unexpected allies a week and they will choose because we're being a lot of shit. There's a lot of stuff to go on. We haven't even talked about the goddamn debt ceiling and the government shutdown that might be happening. We're going to wrap all that. We're going to talk all about that next week after we know what's going on. What happens tonight? All right, but right now we got to go. It's football time. All right. Uh, take the thing caps off, but never stop learning.

Do yourself a favor. Keep your eyes and ears open this weekend. It's a lot of good stuff on your televisions, but also make sure you take breaks. Dad, I love you. I feel you every second of every day. I just want to make sure I said that. Van Lathen Jr.

I'm Van Lathen Jr. I'm Rachel Lynn Lindsay. And we are out. Bye guys.