Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - A Dive Into the Diddy Trial, Meghan Trainor’s New Bass, and Bringing Redheads to the Community

Episode Date: May 16, 2025

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay start the episode by discussing the TikTok trend of including redheaded Americans in the Black community (07:20). Then, they go through a few “quick hitters,” including the restraining order sought by Halle Bailey (18:52), the backlash about Meghan Trainor’s new look (33:28), and their reactions to the introductions to the federal bill redefining what qualifies as “obscene” (58:14). Then, they bring on Yodit Tewolde to give a look at the details of the Diddy trial (1:12:09) before ending the show with an important message of change from the hosts (1:38:02). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Yodit Tewolde Producers: Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? I learned his own is I Van Lacey Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. Rachel, we're still basking in the glow of the success of our first live show. It was good. It wasn't just good. It wasn't just good.

It was fun. Right? I don't go. I don't know if I've been to a live podcast show. I've seen them, but I don't know if I've been. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know if I've ever really been. No, I haven't been to one. I think I've just watched it. And I think my biggest concern was, will it translate? Will it be fun? I just wanted people to have a good time. People were taking time out of their day, spending their money to come, watch us. And I just wanted people to walk away and say it was worth it. And I feel like they did. Plus, selfishly, we have fun. Yeah, we had a lot of fun. I kept thinking about something after I left the show.

What did you think about it? What if I would have shit my pants on stage? Well, why would that have happened? No, no, no, no. Man. Okay. That's not a normal thought. Because I wanted to do something.

I wanted to do a somersault tumble when I first got on stage. I wanted to run. It's my first time hearing this. Like roll over. Like roll over. Okay. Somersault Tumble. Okay.

But I was imagining doing the Somersault Tumble and then it going well. Yeah. And then I was imagining doing the somersault tumble as I tumbled, shitting my pants. And I'm thinking to myself, what would I have done?

Would I have continued to do the show? Or would I have run to the back and taken care of it? Because I don't have another pair of pants. You know, I don't have another pair of pants on me. Would the audience have preferred me continue to do the show or leave? I'm going to need you to forget the audience for a second. What would Rachel have done?

Okay. I'm the one closest to you. So what? Not only do I have to see it, I have to smell it. No, no, no, no, no. Man. First off, I don't know. This is the first time I'm hearing about the Somersault.

highly inappropriate, highly unnecessary. Didn't need to do it. Simple walkout and a wave was fine. Tip of the hat. Can I be honest with you guys? I'm sick of the control. If I want to do a somersault,

wait, seriously, if I want to do a somersault, you don't tell me I can't do it. I'm good. If I want to do the somersault, I do the somersault. See what I mean? You know what, Van? Do the somersault. Shit your pants. Do the whole thing.

But if it's even a 1% chance that that's possible, I've done numerous somersaults, never felt like that was going to happen to me. I think that you should reconsider. How about that? Let me not tell you what to do. Let me simply suggest that you reconsider. My question is this. If I would have shit my pants and Ashley's here as well.

We also have CT in the back. if Ashley's here as well, if I would have shit my pants, would it have been better to finish the show because we've got to cancel the show if I shit my pants up there because I can't get another pair of pants. The show has to be canceled.

Correct. So would it have been better to finish the show or to walk off stage or you're doing a show by yourself? I need, if this would, by the way, I do this all the time. every time something goes well, I always get into the catastrophe state of my mind after

and go, Jesus Christ, the worst thing could have happened, you know? I am a prepare for the worst person, too, so I think of what could have gone wrong. That is a thought that never has entered my mind. But let me tell you, it would have been a one-person show, whether it would have just been you because I couldn't take it anymore,

or it would have just been me because you need to escort yourself. But what I will say is that escorts yourself out, I will say, I think some people might, could argue that they would have gotten their money's worth by watching- Already if I shit my pants. If you're gonna say, I think some people could say, maybe not those in the front first five rows,

but I think some other people could have been entertained and said, you know what, this would worth it. It would have been our last show, probably. But they would have thought it was worth it. Would have been the top of the town. Actually, what do you think about the whole show? shitting of the pants. I think that Fergie used to shit and pee her pants all the time on stage, but that never

stopped her, all right? So you should just keep her- What? Yeah, she used to pee her pants all the time. Wait, what? Yeah. On stage. I've never heard of this. So when she was singing the Star Spangled Banner, is that why she sounded like that?

I don't know if it happened during that one, but possibly. But she used to pee her pants all the time on stage. Like, it- And she pees herself. I don't know about shit. Fergie peter pants while performing Let's get it started. She pees her pants.

She pees her pants on stage. Listen. That's crazy. Was it one-time thing, Ashley, or was it? It's happened a couple times. Yeah, it's happened a couple times. But they say that this was because she was on crystal meth.

Oh. What source is that? I don't know. Vice. Vice has a. it. She's talked about it in interviews, peeing her pants.

But not the crystal meth part. Well, the crystal meth part, I mean, it's well known that she had an addiction problem. Oh, I didn't know that. But I'm not, that's not the reason that I would have peed my pants or shit my pants. It just would have happened.

I don't know why it would have happened. It hasn't happened a long time, but it just would have happened. Well, thank God it. and the show was a success. And we don't have to worry about that. Now, I am disappointed that you did not take your shirt off like you promised the people.

You said that if you brought race, I might have been a convenient. Nobody reminded me. I actually talked to you about it before. I said that. We were in the green room. Nobody reminded me that I needed to take my shirt off. I would have done it.

You guys think I care about that? Like nobody would have Nobody reminded me that I needed to do it I completely forgot Okay Okay Totally forgot Um

Oh go ahead Let's see it's on you nigga Can I This I'm about to change the subject Because this is something I saw right before I hopped on That's going Has been going

And I've seen it I'd say the past few days I wonder if Ashley's seen it I see it going around on TikTok And I'm wondering what your thoughts are, if you have a strong opinion one way or another. Have you seen the trend where genders are saying that they're black? And not only are they saying it.

Black people are sending them messages of praise. Black people are welcoming them in. And I'm wondering what you think about it. Are you bothered by it? Are you in on the joke? You're like, oh, people are just joking? or are you kind of like, really? This is what we're doing.

I don't care. I have to reserve a space for me not to care about a couple of things. It seems like silly. It seems like fun, silly, fun, fun stuff. I don't care. I'm not going to be up in arms about every single thing. I do not care. It doesn't bother me.

It seems like the kids are having some fun. Let the kids have some fun if they want to have some fun. When I say the kids, I mean, people younger than me, which is basically everybody, it seems like they're having some fun. Let them have some fun. I'm not going to be bothered with it. But I will tell you this, this opens up the opportunity for us to have a conversation

that about something that I have noticed in my years of looking at women that no one seems to talk about. I feel like on average, ginger white ladies are thicker. They're curvier than regular white women. When you would see a ginger white woman, like a white lady with red hair, she'd normally be a little thicker.

They're a little curvier. And I was wondering, I always wondered, if there was some connection between the gingerness and the fact that there's a little bit more hips and ass to the woman. If it was an Ireland thing, if it was some kind of whatever, but I would see a ginger lady,

and they would always be like a little, they're a little thicker. It's, you know, this has nothing to do with the black thing, but if they want to take that trend and prove that, I'm with that. But other than the whole thing, I don't care. There's so many things I have to not care about. I don't care about some of these things. And so I don't care that they're doing this. Some people are mad at them.

I have not seen the correlation at all. to the ginger in the thickness. No, no several. And I don't even know if, I know some people don't even like the term ginger, so I'll say redheaded. You're talking about true redheads, though. I've seen redheads.

Yes, I've seen, I know several, not seen the correlation. But what I will say is, I actually see more adults doing this, and I see them talking to their kids, calling themselves, calling the kids black queens and stuff like that. Some of it,

I get the silliness of it. I get the joke. My only thing is, when things go on for a little bit longer, they start to go too far. And I'm tired of seeing it all over my timeline because I think it's going, it's starting it. As you would say, it's right there.

It's right on the line. It's right on the line. Right on the line. That's all I'm going to say. Just curious if you've seen it. Because I know you're not on the TikTok. Maybe you need to change up your algorithm. Like, my algorithm is I see it.

I see it. And then I go down a dark hole. And now it's in my, and now it's in my algorithm. So then it's your fault thing, nigger. It's not the first time I heard it. Well, when you're talking about black folks, I'm going to start looking at it.

I'm sorry. I wanted to see what all the talk was about. Anyways. Actually, that's a clutch pool, pull with this furgy thing, by the way. I'm into it. Thank you. Thank you.

Oh, by the way, I do have an opinion on the ginger thing. Go for it, Ash. Ashley, please. Yes. I do not agree. I think the gingers are, this is, that's, I don't even know if that's the right terminology for this, but I think the ginger. The redheaded Americans. The redheaded American folks, they are the black people of white people, but I don't think that should count towards being an actual black person. And that's how I like it, Ashley. I like it. I like it. I know that they had a rough go around in their own community. I know that they can be bullied or isolated

because of the red hair. That can happen. But you're right, that doesn't make them black. Exactly. Blackness can't be attached to like hardship. Just because you have it tough. That meaning you black. I don't like that shit.

That's what's happened. That's the joke. I'm looking up redhead. You know what it is too? It's like, why? We've talked about. this in other in other ways, but why do we always have to be like, you're mistreated? Come on in. We'll take you in. We got your back. Just, no. Like, if I've taken off the joking head,

I put on the serious head, why do we always have to do that? Maybe the one time joke was funny, but then, like, the keep going on and black people, like, I'm serious. Like, redheaded people are like, black people are sending me encouraging messages to lift me up, saying, you're not, you're isolated over here. Come on into our community. Why do we always have to do that? That's the only thing. Well, I think that comes from a good place. I think that black Americans, to me,

they look at the world. Look, this is a broad generalization. They look at the world through an almost aspirational sense of fairness, which is why it's sometimes difficult to get, at least for me, When I'm talking to some members of my community or some people that I know, they revert back to what is fair, even out of context. Meaning if I'll have conversations with people and it'll be difficult for me to put things in a historical context that shows why there are certain disparities and say,

okay, this is fair for us or for somebody based on the unfairness. that has existed in the past. They just go, no. Like, fair is fair. And they want to believe in that, right? So when they see other people that are getting fucked over, they look at the world

through how they feel like we should be treated. Look, man, black people don't get credit for a lot of things. I feel like black people see the inherent beauty in other cultures. For sure.

They love when you doing your thing. They love when you're singing your song. They love when they see the beauty in other people. They see the beauty in other art. And they want things to be better, particularly black Americans who have been treated poorly. So when they see people that are being fucked over, they go, hey, you know, if there's nowhere else to sit,

you can come sit with us. All right. I'm going to commend you on your positivity. I appreciate it. You're not wrong at all. And I do think that that is the beauty of black people. And we are very much so. One of them, yes.

And I think when you've been persecuted or mistreated, you understand it on a different level and you don't want to see that happen to other people. If I'm going to be negative about it, I'm going to look at it from the other side. I think that letting so many people in or giving them a seat at the table or a pass, there needs to be some level of gaykeeping

and we let people become too comfortable thinking that they can be one of us. I'm just saying, I'm just giving the other side of it. It's giving the other side of it. You know, I agree with that. I'm saying it comes from a good place. But it's also, it's what I love about our people, but it's sometimes not war-minded.

And unfortunately, the American cultural experience, when you look at it through the most cynical lens that you can, it is a battle. It is a battle for protection and survival of your culture. And if you let your guard down, people will take your culture, they will exploit your culture, they will criminalize your culture, and you can't let that happen.

And the only way to not have them do that is for you to fight for it. It seems like that shouldn't be the thing, but you got to fight for. You got to fight for your culture. You got to fight for the preservation of it and all of that. Now, I'm not saying that you fight for the superiority of it. Not at all, which is to me the difference between the black experience here and this thrust of white cultural centrality that we're seeing now. They want to centralize everything in white culture.

They want to say that the only... way to have an advanced competitive United States, right? Is if white culture is centralized and is the ruling faction in America.

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about orienting everything around one group of people, which is what I feel like is argued about a lot of these far right places. Hey, you can't fly a plane unless the plane is piloted by a white guy. You can't have a bank unless the bank president is white.

You can't do all of that stuff. We're the only people. I'm talking about our cultural inventions and the things that we've done and the contributions that we've made and the hardships that we've endured be something that is important to the evolution of America, to the story of America. Because if not, they just won't tell them. So that's the battle.

That's the war. And that's why we can't say, you know, everybody's a part of it. And everybody just come in without any cultural understanding. Because by the time you come in and you teach them how to dance, then they come back and they go, let me explain to you how Timothy Shalamee invented the percolate. Yeah. It also just taps in it to this dire to be accepted and this excitement. Oh, you want to be like, oh, we just so willing, like some people in the culture are just so excited.

You know, at the end of the day, we just want to have, we want to be able to have fun with everybody. We really do. We want to be able to, like, we don't feel the need to dominate you guys. We want to be, we want to, we want to, really, we want everybody to come to the cookout. Really?

Like, we want everybody to come to the cookout, but we let y'all in the cookout and then y'all start changing the recipes. Yes. We let y'all in the cookout and then y'all start adding quinoa to the red beans and rice. And before

you know it, the story of Miss Annie, who invented the Red Beas of Rice, is now the story of Karen McGillacuddy who came up with the Kingwall Red Beings of Root. We can't do it. We tried. We tried.

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First quick hitter is Haley, has got a restraining order against. rapper DDG because he's been violent reportedly, allegedly. She says throughout our relationship, Daryl has been and continues to be physically, verbally, emotionally, and financially abusive towards me. I'm seeking orders to protect

myself and our son Halo from his ongoing abuse. What do you all think about this? I don't know what to think. I don't know very much about this. But yeah, I remember when they had their relationship, when they were together. It was a relationship that people seemed to really be into. This is like for a couple of generations behind us, like a really big deal that I...

Yeah, a couple. Well, not for you. For me, I'm 45 years old. These people are like 20 years younger than me. Like 20, 25 years. I don't know how old these people are. These people are young. So it...

I don't know what to think. I know that this seems to be something that the young... younger version of blacks are really invested into. She had a lot of evidence that went along with this. I saw there's she had chipped her tooth. She had bruises on her. I know that there is a custody situation here. And I will say this, particularly when there is custody stuff that happens,

you see these types of allegations made. because when there is a custody case between two people, they are going to bring up the worst things that they can say about the other person in order to make the case to the judge about why they should have custody of the kid. We've seen this before. I like the way you're phrasing it.

That's true. I wouldn't say that they're bringing up the worst things. I think that it might just be, I mean, they're obviously horrible things. I guess I would just say it in. They're saying things that they never said before, right? There's a reason that she has to seek sole custody, which she was granted. In addition to the temporary restraining order, she was also granted in this time sole custody of the child.

But it's not bringing up the worst things like I'm just trying to prove it my case. It's bad things have happened. It's gotten to the point where now I have to go public with it in order to protect myself and in this case, my child. It's the wording of it. I mean, that depends on whether not you believe. Let me tell you why I say what I'm saying. Okay. Like I worked at TMZ for nine years, right? Like a long, long time. I say that all the time. And so I saw all of these types of cases. And I'm not just talking about from the lady to the guy. I'm talking about from the guy to the lady. Like from the guy to the lady, this woman is a terrible mother. She's never around for the kid. she's always outworking.

She takes the kid to places where she parties and does drugs and gets high and does all of that stuff. Ginny and Jeezzy, right? Ginny and Jeezzie. All right. They're going through a divorce. Now, it's not me and Jeezie are happy or whatever. He's a good father. Let's do this.

It's Jezy is walking around the house with an AK-47. Jeff. GZ is all this. So, and then from his standpoint, it's going to be like, she's consumed with this. She's consumed with that. She's a liar. She's infidelity, all of that. I'm talking about in the grander scheme of things, not looking into these people's relationship and saying who is right and who is wrong. I'm saying typically when custody is at the center of something like this and there's a breakup and there's a kid involved, and particularly when it's two public figures, what you start getting from each of them is how terrible the other person is.

And so, like, when I kind of see this stuff in the custody case, it doesn't make me say that it's any less true, but I have to be honest that I've seen a lot of this and in seeing it, that's typically the way that it comes out. Well, you can bring up things on both sides where it's like you just don't know, right? That's what this says, which is why you started off saying, like, there's not a lot to say or you don't really know because we're just getting the information that she's putting in this temporary restraining order, which is like she needs relief immediately, which was granted.

And she submitted evidence, her evidence, a judge agreed, awarded her full custody. I believe until July 2nd is when the next thing is going to happen. but you brought up the age thing and saying, like you don't really know that much about them or this couple because they're 20 years younger than you. And I think what's sad is that when I look at the things that are surrounding that we do know so far, it's like it doesn't matter if you're 45 or you're 25.

It's like the same stuff over and over again. You don't know what goes on behind the closed doors with people's relationship. This was a couple that was praised. you know, he's big in the streaming community, millions and millions of followers. When they got together, she had not,

a little mermaid had not come out yet, but she was filming it in the process of it. Her star has only gotten bigger and bigger. Color Purple, a little mermaid, so many opportunities. And it seems like their relationship

began to deteriorate after that. Don't know why. Don't know. Can only assume. certain things because we don't know it goes behind closed doors. But the other thing that is sad is the damage that's being done, I would say, to her reputation in the streaming community. You have once again, it seems like, and it doesn't matter if you're 45 for 25, it's like man

versus woman. You've got, and we don't know what's true and what's not true. But you've got immediately, this comes out, becomes public, DDG is on a streaming uh you're streaming with Aiden Ross. It's streaming with Aiden Ross when he gets this information

convenient and immediately Aiden Ross is coming to his support demonizing Hallie demonizing the situation and automatically without any without knowing anything believing DDG and he's not the only one

that a lot of men in the streaming community, which is male dominated, automatically saying, we believe DDG, we stand by him. And that shouldn't be the response. And it happens no matter what age you are. You automatically see people take sides and it becomes a gender war thing. When the reality of the situation is, this is a relationship that has gone bad for whatever reason. And there's a child involved at the end of the day, a young child, which is what makes this sad. And you kind of could see, like if I do go back, one thing I do remember, we don't know a whole lot, but I do remember DDG coming out,

using his streaming platform, millions of people to say that he's not able to see his son. And it invented all these people started developing opinions about Hallie, about their relationship, and it became super negative, and now this is coming out. And what I would say is,

I would like for this to not be, it will be, because it already is, fought out in the court of public opinion, and let these people handle their relationships, and do what's best for their child. Because it's done for them, it seems like. But how can this child grow up in a healthy household with two parents? That's what needs to happen.

I want to say two things. You don't feel like you did what you just did a second ago, what you accused Ayn Ross of doing? That I said what? That he went on the streaming platform. So I said, so I said in the situation, I hear things like this and they're bad. But I typically expect to hear the worst things about somebody when there's a custody battle that's happening.

And then it seemed like your posture was, well, you're not hearing it because of that. You're hearing it because she's got to do what she can do to save herself and her child, which essentially seems like you're saying that all of the allegations that she's making are true. So what I was essentially saying there was, hey, it doesn't surprise me that in this type of situation where there's a custody battle type of thing that you're hearing about all of this stuff because if there was anything like that or anything that was going on, this is the time when they tell you why we're not together. I'm sure he's going to come out and say that she's some kind of terrible mom. That's not me saying that none of this stuff happened. I'm saying, I'm saying that she's a terrible mom. She had the baby here.

She has the baby here. She's doing all of this. She's doing all of that. I'm sure all of that stuff's going to happen. When him and his friends are getting together, those are the people that know him. They don't care about what the truth of this situation is. They care about making him look good. I think it's also when I look at those guys in their history, they also are about just making man look good, period.

it. Like, that's a talk, like the, the streamers that have come out and said something like the academics, and I don't even know the other names, but like they have a typical, Aidan Ross, they have a history of man over everything, which is, which is, I would say it's a little deeper than just being a friend to him. But to your, to the original point that you made, I think after my pushback, the way you explained it was, was, was, gave more context to it. I just had an issue with you saying they're going to bring out the worst of each other because it to me gave an implication of just trying to bring out something bad to fluff it up. But then you explained it even more. And I don't have any issue with that. It's just the way you worded it at first. I just wanted to change the narrative a little bit. Well, the point is when people get into this thing is when and then what's going to happen. Okay, so let's go back to another case.

Let's go back to the case of Kiki Palmer. I know you would bring that stuff. Right. All of this stuff, it's public. It's all of this. This is not to say that none of that stuff happened. What's to say is you have a public relationship. And this is why, to your point, do not get too involved in these public relationships.

There's no such thing as couples' goals. The goal for every couple should be the, individual back and forth, communicative, loving, participatory relationship that is defined and nurtured and cultivated by two people. And there should be no couple that you look to for any type of inspiration. Because when you get into interpersonal relationships, male, female, male, female, female, whatever dynamics, there are so many things that go into them and you just have no idea. And so like in that situation,

I remember there was a time when people were praising Darius for like holding the baby while Kiki Palmer was out doing her thing. Then it came out. Maybe that nigga didn't like holding the baby that much. And now it's the whole thing. But they get to a point to where they have to parent together and fix everything after it's gone public.

And now people are disappointed in either. or Kiki or him because they're doing what they were always going to do, which is find a way to co-parent. In this situation, DDG and Hallie Berry made their relationship very public. People believed something about it. He was buying her stuff for birthday. It was all great.

Look at the presents that they get each other. Look how they love on each other. Now you find out it wasn't such roses and chocolates and you're disappointed because you've overindulged into the PR that they made you believe about their relationship. Correct. The PR, the public persona, the image is what I'm living proof of it. You know, no child's involved.

But I totally understand that, you know, as authentic and as real as you may be, there's certain things that you have to protect and preserve for the nature of your relationship. So I totally understand that the image that you present may not. be what it actually is. Doesn't mean that it was always that case, right? Like in my example, it was fine at one point and then it took the turn. Am I going to start now showing that turn? No, I'm going to try to preserve the relationship. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. Now, I also know, to your point, what I was pushing back on, I also know when you're trying to win something in court or you're trying to prove something, I've been on the end of it where there were

falsehoods, not that you were saying that that's what's happening, but I've seen it to where there were falsehoods put in court documents in orders. That's why it's like you can't really speak to what's what I was saying. I was saying people are going to say the worst thing and sometimes they're going to lie so you know that they, yeah. I said to your point, but I was just going to say the way that you're phrasing it. I wasn't disagree with you. I was just like trying to like change the way that it was phrased, but I have been a, I have been a part of it where I'm like, that is not true. That is actually a lie. You're saying that. So, you can get the most from this court situation.

It's all very messy. It's all very hard. It's all case by case. I think the one thing that we can all agree on is that a child is involved. And that should be what the focus is and what we should be protecting out of all of this. Ashley, let's go to Megan Trainor now. Speaking of public for sense. Megan Trainor, is she not really all about that base anymore?

Megan Traynor recently performed at the I Heart Radio's Wango Tango at Huntington Beach, California, Saturday. She performed all about that bass and changed her famous lyrics about how she's like, yeah, it's pretty clear. I ain't that size too. She changed it to, yeah, it's pretty clear. I got some new boobs, but I can shake it, shake it like I'm supposed to do. Is she allowed to do? Is she allowed, of course. And Megan Trainor is not the first public figure that has changed, altered their appearance,

or lost weight, added something, deducted something, whatever it may be, for whatever their reason may be. And she won't be the last. I understand the disappointment that people might have in Megan Trainers' situation because they may have liked Megan Trainor because they saw themselves represented in her, whether it was an inclusion, whether it was body positivity. There's an argument that's made, which I actually agree, that all about that base was a body positivity. It became kind of that kind of anthem. So I understand people being like, man, I really loved that I saw myself in you. And now I don't do that.

Now you look like so many other people in Hollywood. But you can't fault her for deciding this. she wants to change. I mean, and she, unlike a lot of other public figures, has head on addressed. And I think that's also who Megan Traynor is. She's very real and raw and authentic. She's addressed it and said that she did it because she wanted to be healthier and a stronger version for herself and for her kids and for her significant other. And I appreciate that she said, like, hey, I am using a weight loss drug. This is what I'm using. This is why I'm using it. and because so many other people will be like, oh, I work out four times a day, or I only eat 1,200 calories, or I haven't done anything.

And I appreciate that she's like, this is what I'm doing. I'm not trying to lie to you about it or whatever it may be or pretend I haven't changed. So I get both sides of it, but I don't think that she should be crucified. And for her changing the lyrics in the song, she changes it that she's, well, she says she's not a size too, but she says, my new boobs. So she's acknowledging the fact that she changed her body. She got her new boobs. She's not hiding from what she did. I don't know. I think the outrage is a bit much. I think the outrage is completely warranted. Oh.

Completely warranted. Okay. So when I think of the body positivity movement, I think of a movement that is seeking to, democratize a couple of things. Number one, acceptance of different body styles. But there's also a social aspect to this.

Right? I had a hair transplant. Okay? So I went. I didn't like something about myself. So I went and had a hair transplant to put the hair line back in and we're on the road

to our 20s as far as a hair line is concerned. You can only do that if you can afford it. Yeah. Right. Right. So essentially, the grossest part of the hair transplant was the people at the place were great. All of that stuff was great.

Very supportive. But I was looking for different tips on the recovery. And I was in a hair transplant Reddit. And one of the people in the Reddit said, going bald is for broke people. And that's interesting. It's an interesting thought that, and obviously it's been this way forever, right?

That, you know, the Hollywood stars that people look up to, the influences that people look up to, the people that are able to maintain this youthful glow. We think that these people are blessed genetically in some way, and they're not. they have money. So they're getting bags under their eyes removed. They're getting their skin tightened up.

They're getting Botox. They're getting hair transplant. Their hair transplants. They're on OZMPIC. They're on all of these different drugs, right? They're doing all of this stuff that is fine for them to do. However, they can do it because they have the time for the post-op procedure. They have the money.

They have the time to even work out. I would say that telling everybody to go to the gym, that's dope, right? And you should have, you should go to the gym to be healthy. But it's a lot easier to go to the gym if you have personal trainers. If you have a gym in your house. If you're on set somewhere and there's a studio facility on set, if there's for you to work out because all of this stuff, it's different between what you're asking from a star or somebody with resources. somebody that doesn't have it.

So I say all that because when the body positivity movement was coming around, in my opinion, it was not for the people who were in the class of Megan Trainor or even Lizzo. It was for other people

who are in those bodies. And they're trying, right? They're trying to, they're working out. Some of them are trying to eat healthy. Maybe they're not. Maybe some of them are just living life, but they're in those bodies. They can't afford those

imping. Like, I'm on Monjaro. It's expensive. It's $1,000 a month. It's $1,000 a month. Unless it's covered. Unless it's covered. And then if it's covered, it's still expensive, right? So, like, for those people,

like, the Megan Trainers and the Lizzo's and some of the other people, they weren't just celebrities. They were revolutionaries. They were people who were like legitimately

threatening the beauty status quo of this culture. And OZipic killed that. And I'm not saying that I'm not blaming Megan Trainor or Lizzo or any of these other people for that.

But it does kind of make it seem like they were full of shit. And and so and so and so I'm just I'm just being honest. And this comes from somebody who's struggled with body image issues, his entire life who's been the big guy, been to that. Like when I lost the weight, there was no O-ZMPIC,

and I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with wanting to see yourself differently, and there's certainly not anything wrong with wanting to be healthier. But there is a lot of damage being done to the body positivity movement when its spokesmen, exposes people, should I say, and its anthems are now being changed and being disintegrated

because there is a drug that helps you lose weight, and now you see that maybe some of these people weren't as proud of their bodies, or it feels like, it feels like, I can't say that, that they weren't as proud of their bodies

is what they said, that maybe they were just, because remember, there are other people who cannot afford to do this. there are other people who can't go get their hair line taken care of, they've got to be bald. There are other people who can't do all of that stuff.

I agree with you, but I also think, I agree with you in some ways, right? I'm more disturbed and bothered by the people who lie about how they're losing their weight or how they're changing their bodies. I'm more disturbed by the people who were plus size or whatever term you want to use

and then are lying about have the means. have the access, have the time to do what they need to do to lose the weight and then are lying about how they're doing it. That bothers me to my core. Why? Why does that bother you? I'm interested in that.

Because you're lying about it. You're pretending. I'd rather you say, listen, and this is why I say it's case by case. I agree with you in some things about the damage that it's doing to the body positivity movement because it does feel like, wow, you never really wanted to look this way. but if you're doing it because your health is in jeopardy, then I have no problem with that. And that's why I say case by case.

We don't know. I don't know if Lizzo had health issues or Megan Trainor had health issues. She's saying she did. I don't know if they did. So I'm not going to demonize you for getting on a medical drug because you needed to do it to preserve your health. We don't know those things. I'm bothered by the people who are not plus size who are doing it just because they want to be a size zero or look a certain way on a carpet for an event.

That kind of stuff bothers me. I'm bothered by the people who are lying about it because you're putting out this false perception that if you work out this many times a day or you eat this, you too can look just like this, which is a lie. That's why that bothers me to about quite a like people lying to the public who are really trying to change. change beyond this path of healthy living and you're lying about the way that you're doing it. You're cutting corners. But I do understand. That's why I say I understand people being disappointed, but I can't sit here and say, I don't know if Megan Traynor had health issues. I can't put her in the same boat, try not to name names as other people.

Because I don't even know if they really did it. It's just case by case. So that's what I'm saying. I agree with you, but I'm going to. be honest about it, and I'm not saying that you're not. What I'm saying is, it's not about Megan Trainor or Lizzo or anyone else, because I don't have a problem with any reason that anyone takes Ozmpic

or does anything or whether or not they want to talk about it or whether or not they want to do it, whatever you want to do to make yourself look and feel better, it's cool. I have no problem with anyone doing any of this stuff. Whatever you do to make yourself look and feel better, if it's healthy for you and if it's not hurting you, it's cool. You know, I've known guys for a long time that were on HGH, right?

Like, for a long time. Like, people very close to me that were on HGH. They're on HGH. They're like, hey, it's testosterone. It's whatever, whatever. And I remember back in the day, I was like, so, you know, you're on HGH. It's going to make everything grow.

So if there are tumors in your body, those are going to grow too. And it's not, it could lead to you developing. or cancers that are in your body becoming more aggressive, you know, so whatever. We actually don't know. I don't know if those impics been around long enough

or Manjaro or any of these other things would go before us to know what the long-term side effects of them are, right? Or if they are any. So I don't have any problem with any way that anyone wants to do it, how much they want to share with the public, how much they don't want to share.

The only thing that I have a problem with is hope pedaling. And if you, if you are going to pedal hope, hope is, to me, the most powerful thing that human beings have. Hope. Hope undergirds everything. Hope in a different society. Hope in a different world. Hope spawns belief and belief changes humanity.

Right. And so the hope was that one day we wouldn't all have to look the same, which was going to lead to the belief that people could go out and exist in society and have society look and approach them in a different way. Maybe that was all bullshit. Maybe that was never going to happen. Maybe we were over our skis, all of that. Maybe that's the case, right?

But, I mean, if you make yourself a symbol of that, and by the way, I'm saying this, not just in this case or in another case, we're having a big conversation right now about some plus-sized models and influencers, some plus-sized actors and actresses that now look totally different to where their entire identity before was body positivity.

And someplace somewhere right now, there is some person who can't afford to do that thing that is saying, oh, well, it does suck to be fat. And that is, and if there's no, if we can't at least criticize or talk about the fact that that change affects people, then it makes the whole thing seem like a grift in the first place. For sure. I can't imagine.

That's why I said the first thing I said is I understand the disappointment. I can't imagine being excited, you know, to see somebody who finally looks like you or represents who you are, and then that all go away. I do. I just, I guess on the other end of it, I'm like,

I don't know, don't put your, I don't know. I get it. I get what you say. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer,

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So the DNC credentials committee passed a resolution determining that Malcolm Kian and David Hogg's election in February was incomplete due to violations of the party's charter. It was brought by Kaelin Free, who is a Native American committee person from Oklahoma, who lost a hog in one of the vice

chair races. What do you guys think about this? This happening right now? I don't know. What the hell is going on over there? Rachel doesn't know about the hog. What's like, what's going on over there? Like, this is,

this is just that does not look good for the party. They're chaotic. They can't get it together. It seems like they're turning against each other. It seems like they're suppressing rising leaders in the party on a technicality. Yeah. It's just doesn't look good. The Democrats are cooking the books again.

Now, it seems to. to me, that any time somebody comes up with a semi-populist disruption in the Democratic Party, that the halves of the party, the power of the party, seeks to cut that person off, whether it be Bernie, whether it be the AOCs or the rest of the wing of the party at any time. anyone, anytime anyone challenges the status quo of the Democratic Party, Democratic Party silences them.

Now, here's the problem with this. I'm going to be very pointed and directing this. If the Democratic Party can't handle the status quo of their party being challenged, then there's no reason for people to believe that the Democratic Party is an instrument to challenge the status quo in America. If they can't handle disruption, then they can't be disruptive. And America needs some disruption right now. Because what is happening in the country right now is a direct and obvious push to double and triple down on orienting America around the white male orthodoxy, around the Christian right, around a rule.

a rule by one and not the rule of law and it seeks to reorganize America in the near and distant future. And that has to be challenged by the Democratic Party if they are who they say they are. Now,

they're not who they say they are and there are a bunch of stuffed suits who are taking money under the table from the same people who are essentially funding the other side of this thing, then we will know because every person that tries to push the Democratic Party forward will be silenced like they're trying to silence this young man right now.

Look, is it, in my opinion, comfortable to watch David Hall call out an 84-year-old black guy? No, it's not. It makes me a little uncomfortable because I am black and I am talking about clibor in here. I am taught to respect my elders, give my elders space, and make sure that my elders are able to say goodbye in the way that they have earned.

Still, though, there's got to be somebody that says, these motherfuckers are too old, we need some new people, let's kick them in the ass. The conversation has got to be allowed to be had. It has to be allowed to be had. And that's the problem. I love that you say disruption because that's exactly what the problem is. We had, was it been? Was it been? Wickler we had on here?

Wickler. I felt like he was about disruption. I felt like he was about change. I felt like he was a voice. Now, he lost to Ken Martin as to become the DNC chair. It feels like Ken Martin is trying to protect and preserve what this party has continued to be and why they're a problem right now. I said this when we did the live show, but David Hogg's job is to have a role in developing and promoting policy and platform. It is about, I mean, that is, it's not just that he's a younger voice. It's not that he's just a progressive voice.

It's about recognizing what constituents want. And the fact that, one, first they tried to silence him on a technicality and saying, this is not what you're supposed to do as vice chair of the DNC. Now they're trying to kick him out on a technicality. And the question is, what's more important to you? What is David Hogg saying that's so wrong? What is he saying so wrong? It's giving that it's making you uncomfortable in the fact that you're going to lose your power

and position within the party rather than being disruptive or rather than actually listening to the people and giving them what they, want, rather than understanding their concern so that you can take on a power position within this country. You'd rather just sit in your seat and hold your title than you rather would win, then you rather would speak to what the people want. So we should say this. It seems as if you're listening to the podcast right now that Rachel and Van are assuming

that the push to redo this election is because of the backlash that David Hogg is receiving for the PAC that he's starting. The PAC is called the We Deserve Leaders We Deserved PAC, which is seeking to primary a lot of the longstanding seatholders in Congress that are Democrats. So some of the older, longer-standing members, David Hogg is looking to replace them with a younger, maybe more progressive, maybe more energetic candidates, right? I have no problem with it. That is not why they say they are doing. We seem to be accepting David Hogue's framing of this.

There's another guy that's involved in this too, Malcolm Kinata. He doesn't seem to believe that that, because his seat, he's a vice share as well, looks to be, the election is going to happen again as well. He doesn't believe that this is the reason why they're doing it. He says that David Hawke has a very, I think he said a very casual relationship with the truth. So we shouldn't just assume and say that they're going after. David Hogg because of some of his positions, right? Well, yes, but we have to acknowledge that there has been pushback and they haven't

necessarily been pleased at the way that he has handled his role as vice chair since he was elected. That we can acknowledge. And from people that I've talked to, since the credentials committee has nullified the results of that election, and they're seemingly going to redo it, people I've talked to have said there's probably not that much chance that David Hogg or how about this? Because I haven't talked to the whole of the people. There are people who believe that David Hogg will not be elected as a vice chair of the DNC now. But that's probably out. Okay. I don't know how that works. I don't know the ins and outs of it. But I do know that it seems, it seems as if this is a kick in the ass for him being

a little outspoken about changes that he feels like needs to happen inside the party. Look, it's not about the right or the wrong of it because when we're talking about politics, that is not really a consideration, right

or wrong. It's what's best for people. But we need to be having this conversation in American politics. We need to be having this conversation and making it look like, like you can criminalize the conversation,

like politically criminalize the conversation, is damaging to me. And it makes it seem like the truth, what I know to be the truth, is even truer, which is the corporate wing of the Democratic Party is useless. Is like legitimately useless. And rather than actually push

forward change or address the problems, the inconsistencies, and the fears that exist in the American political arena, that those people will save themselves. Yes. And they won't even, look, even if we're not having a conversation about getting rid of rep Clyburn or rep waters or any of the elder states, that we have in the party who we adore. We definitely should be having a conversation about who's next. Yeah.

Right? Like even if we're not having a conversation about jetticing those people who've meant so much to so many, and I can understand the fact that that doesn't feel good, that that doesn't feel right, that that feels unceremonious and wrong to do for a lot of people, right? I get that. But we should at least be having a conversation about who's next, who we're empowering, who, like, and I think that's fair. And if we can't have that conversation, it's all fucked up to me.

Oh, that's what we're headed. Ashley, the Republicans are going too far. They keep doing. I can't abide by. Bad news for baiters all over the U.S. Yep. A new bill was introduced by Senator Muckley, a Republican. And he's going to create, or he did create a bill,

that would federally ban pornography by redefining what qualifies as obscene under the law. Why did he do this? Well, in a statement on X, Utah Senator Mike Lee said, obscenity is not protected by the First Amendment. I'm assuming he has an accent. But hazy, unenforceable definitions have allowed pornography companies to infect our society,

peddle smut to children, and do business across state lines, unimpended. Today, I introduce the Interstate Obscenity Definition Act with Representative Mary Miller, mind you, Mary Miller should be on our shit list, establishing a comprehensive definition of obscene materials under federal law. This is a first and necessary step to stopping the people and companies that profit from degrading their fellow human beings and ruining countless lives. What do y'all think? I mean, this affects Van as, I know you don't, you don't dabble in it like you used to. But as someone who used to be, I mean, you're obviously an advocate for it still.

And as someone who's well-versed in the industry, I mean, I can say it's disappointing at the way that they look at sex workers. That's a legitimate job that people have that they are able to profit off of, make a living off of. and the fact that they're trying to take away and shut down a whole industry. Because, I mean, well, here's my question. With this impact only fans? I mean, sure. Okay.

It seems to modernize the standard for prosecuting explicit content online, replacing a decades-old test established by the Supreme Court. You know, this is stuff that Larry Flint had been talking about back in the day. These are things that had, you know, made their way through the courts decades ago, like 1979

and and you know as long as people right here it seems as if Michael Lee is you know making this about what he thinks is obscene so I don't know but what were you saying Rachel I didn't mean to get in no no no I mean that's what I was just saying

it just goes to my point okay only fans too like so many people make a living off of this you know that's their right to be able to do So I think it's going to put a lot of people out of work. I forget the just the people that experience pleasure from it. They're people who make a full living off of this, that provide for their families off of this. And the fact that this is something that they're trying to put it out there, which the way things are going could easily move through

to possibly being, you know, coming to fruition. I think that's disappointing. But for you, I mean, you must, this must have hit you hard. coming to fruition It's going to be a lot less people doing that I'll start this off by saying this I understand that it's probably a point to maybe that

porn's too accessible to some people that don't need to be watching porn I can get that I can understand that I can understand that you know in some places there might be people children whatever who are looking at porn

who don't need to see it And I am all four making sure that pornography is hard for minors to get an excess and participate in as far as watching and stuff like that. I think it's too much. It's too easy. It was a lot harder when I was a kid. We did it. It was a lot harder when I was a kid. And I get that.

I understand that. But I don't think that that's what this is about. I think that Mike Lee's Bill is an attack on porn. I really do. And I would say to Mike Lee, have you ever had a good session? Oh. Like a really good session, Mike Lee.

I'm talking about 30 tabs open. Thanks. Olive oil, coconut oil, concoction. It's a Saturday morning. You're by yourself. You're going from tab to tap to tap.

to tap to tap because each tab keeps getting better. Have you ever completely relaxed yourself with a do-dun-dum? Have you ever been in a state of euphoric glee? Going from different genres, different races, some higher production values, some people's living rooms. Have you ever really experienced porn? Have you ever really enjoyed porn?

Have you really ever made porn a thing in your life? Because if you had, there would be no way you can want to get rid of it. I'll tell you right now that there are men in places that made better decisions because they peeled one off before they went out into the world. There are guys right now that were going to do something. something stupid that threaten their families, that threaten their relationships. But they peeled one off

and then it got that blissful 10 to 15 minutes where you're actually kind of like a girl. And you don't have all of these raging things telling you to go do something stupid. Those guys are better for it. I could make an argument that pornography has saved some marriages, saved some families and kept it, got the poison out of the body.

What? Saved marriages? Saved marriages. We always talk about the fact that porn has destroyed marriages. But what about the guy that's somewhere and he sees the old fling? And she's like, oh, what's going on? He doesn't want to do it. He knows it's too much.

He knows he shouldn't. And he boom, bap, pow. And he ends up in some hot wings. instead of in her. Mike Lee doesn't know anything about that. Mike Lee has no idea the fact that pornography, porn, when consumed,

in a responsible way, can be a part of someone's ritual life. I'm not standing for it. I'm asking for your support, Rachel. Will you stand up for porn? Ashley, what's the next? I stand up for sex workers. Also, really quick, I want to clarify that this is not going to just affect pornography.

It will probably affect all art. So there was three sex scenes and sinners. That would immediately, they would immediately probably ban centers from being in theaters due to this bill. So it's like, it's not just pornography. So as I was clowning, Ashley comes in with a great point. And the reality is this. Who? This is about porn and really about all the people who I love.

We're very instrumental in my life, Madori, Ebony A's. I could name more. This is about porn, but this is also about letting one group of people define what obscenity is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And do you want Mike Lee, Senator from Utah, telling you what you can jack off to? Well, to Ashley's point, that's not even necessarily what it is. It's going to be something that is open to interpretation. There's not going to be an exact definition on what is considered obscene.

It's going to be based on the Mike Lee's, a certain group of people, in the same way that the book ban is just being taken out of control. That's exactly what we're going to see artistically when it comes to. nudity in movies, sex scenes in movies, sexual conversations in movies, movies that deal with subjects matters surrounding sex. That's the more, not the more, because still people, there's an industry that could just wipe out the way people make a living. But that's also what makes it just, I guess, even more widespread.

So Ashley, thank you for bringing up that point. they will be able to take this definition and use it as a weapon in ways that they want to that fit their narrative. And then you know what's going to happen. It's going to be similar to like pastors that come out that are that condemn the queer community, that condemn adultery. But then are all secretly doing it. You know what I mean? It's like it's going to be like Handmaidstel, Gilead. but then they have Jezebels where all the commanders still go to

to do all the things that they fight against. Like that's what that's what's going to end up happening. So there's this list of towns, Horn Hub by States. Let's see where Utah ranks. But it's not porn to Ashley's point. That's the problem. It's not just porn.

It's not just porn. Don't try to take the focus off porn. But I think that that's what's, that's, that's Ashley's redirecting our mindset because it's because there will be people who say, well, I don't watch porn and I don't agree with it. And they don't think about how like, will you teach sexual education in schools anymore? Will people just be, will you, will you, do like do the culture that I was grown up in where an abstinence poster was just posted on my wall? And that was my sexual education. And you have people running around confused, not knowing what to do with their bodies or

understanding their bodies. Like this, this could go, it just could be so widespread, unending. So I'm looking at the, I know, but I don't want to take the focus off porn because, to me, we sing.

Well, no, the only reason why, though, is because I want people to come to terms with the fact that they like to watch people fuck. I don't like, I,

you know what? This is why I'm weird. By the way, I'm weird. It's okay, guys, I get weirded out by people who get weirded out.

Like the fact that people, I do. Like I get weirded out by people that get uncomfortable. Yeah. Like I get weirded out by people. Because I start to think like what's the big deal? Like it makes me not trust you. Like I start to get weirded out by people. I know that you have the absent poster in your room, right?

And you come from the purity culture thing, right? I get it. I understand it. And I understand that a lot of people are. are, you know, raised to believe that their bodies are these disgusting, icky things and that they can't, you know, express themselves and all that. That's not what it was, but okay. That's definitely what it is.

That's definitely what it is. Keep going. That's 1,000% what it is. But those people, to me, I really feel like in a way I'm, like those people are the bad people to me. They are. I'm going to be honest with you. I go too far on the other side.

Those people are the bad people because those people are the people that want to like restrict you and control you and put their morals and values on you and put the way they see the world on you and all of that stuff. Those people are the bad people. That's bad.

It's bad to be uncomfortable with human sexuality. It's bad. It's bad. It's a bad thing. I think it's bad. I think it's part of the arbitrary rules that we make that... I'm not disagreeing. To me, to me, the...

And this is... I mean this. To me, the uncomfortability surrounding that, it's one step from... Her skirt is too short. She deserved to be assaulted. I think all of that stuff is on the same continuum. I think all of that stuff,

I think all of that stuff, I think all of that stuff, I think all of that stuff is on the same continuum. I think not being able to come to terms with desire and human sexuality, it makes it corrosive and mixes it with power. And now you feel like anyone that is like in some way, you know, indulging into that is less of a person, is less of a human. and you can assert and take from them and it doesn't matter as much.

It's weird to me. It's bad. It's bad. All right. By the way, the number one point search in Utah is a lesbian. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet

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and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need of vaccine. vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphaya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. Now, we have the Diddy trial is underway and we have talked a little bit about it when we were talking about jury selection and kind of what we expected or maybe wouldn't expect, kind of talking a little bit about what we would see from the trial. But now the trial is underway. We haven't yet. talked about it. We are on day four, I believe. When the opening statements

were on Monday and Van and I, you know, I am not a legal expert when it comes to this. I can admit that. Van is not either. So we bring in our friend of the show Yodi to Walde I just got to be honest with y'all

man. Real quick. No, don't know her own friend. No. Rachel don't know her own friend. own friend name. It's crazy to me. Wait, what? Rachel don't know her own friend name. I'm actually really shocked in her.

But, you know, my name isn't the easiest thing I get it. Oh, my God. That's nuts. If you have anybody who's close to me, I am the worst with, like, it doesn't matter how long I have known you. I am the worst when it comes

to, like, saying names, pronunciations. Please don't do you have a pen? Do you have a pen? I can Oh, you're going to make me Because I was going to make you phonetically spell it That way. Okay.

You know what I'm saying? Because I feel like the W kind of scares people in my name, my last name. So you want me to phonetically spell it? Go ahead. Yes. Okay, so T-E-H, so T-E-L-W-E-L-L-L- And I say, and I say, and I say, well. Uh-huh.

Because there's an O, I get it. Yeah, you sounded out like it's an E. And then D-E-H-D. So T-W-E-L-D. Mm-hmm. Hopefully their house. You're African. You're African, right? I'm African, yes.

Van. See, Vans over here trying to make you seem like he's a better friend, and he loves to throw me under the bus when it comes to this. I apologize. It's no excuses. Well, Van, why don't you intro me? Can you say my lesson? Yolita Tuwolde.

Oh. Oh, that's, he definitely. I'll introduce you a bunch of times. You just gave him a whole lesson. Like, I don't know. I've introduced you a bunch of times. Now, I normally say to Walde, but I've, like, but, you know. Fair.

But the name that was said, but before the podcast was somebody else's name, like, it was something different to what she. Would you like to tell her how you spelled her name? Oh. You know what? Y'all isn't that. I'm not even going to call you by your first name anymore. I'm just going to say last thing because I will never make this mistake again. All right.

Anyways, I apologize. No, you're good. You're good. Totally wrong, but you're here to talk about you've been keeping up to date with what is happening right now with the Diddy trial. We're getting a lot, a lot of piecemeal information here on social media, people who are going, you know, have their own YouTube or TikTok accounts, kind of giving us their own rundown. But you're an expert. You've been following just first initial question. Where we are right now in the trial?

What's happening? What are the updates? Okay. So the jury was impaneled on Monday, like you stated earlier, the opening statements happened right after. And then the prosecution called two witnesses. One was the hotel security at the intercontinental hotel where that tape was made of Diddy, dragging, beating, kicking Cassie in a hotel hallway. He went on the sand. He testified. He was the first witness. And then the second witness for the prosecution was a sex worker, one of the escorts that Diddy and Cassie had involved in these freakoffs. The third witness, the star witness for the prosecution, Cassie Ventura. She spent about nine hours, a total of two days on direct dates. And today was the official start of the cross-examination of Cassie Ventura.

So she, right now, as we speak, is being cross-examined by Ditties attorneys. Oh. You expect this to be, I mean, Cassie is pregnant. Yes. She's about eight and a half months pregnant. Yeah. You expect this to be a super aggressive cross from, No. You don't. No. In fact, a lot of the updates that I'm reading from the trial itself,

because there are no cameras in federal court, says that the attorney who's a female, and that's strategic and optic, right? That's a smart optical thing to do. It's not even a word. For optics purposes, they had to have a female defense attorney questioning Cassie. And what they described of her is that her tone is measured, calm, and conversational. It had to be because Cassie already garnered or is garnering sympathy for being an abuse victim, right? We saw it on the video. There's no debating that. She's a victim.

On top of that, she's eight and a half months pregnant, like you said, Van. And so with pregnant women, you handle them with kid gloves. So the gloves can't necessarily come off. And the defense attorneys have to be very, very careful not to turn off the jury because juries don't tend to like strategies like victim blaming. They don't want to do that. So if you turn the jury off and now they don't like you, the only person that suffers is Sean Cohns. In fact, the defense had made a request before Cassie even testified to have her sitting

in the witness box before the jury came in. They didn't want her walking towards the witness box as pregnant as she is. And then she gets sympathy before she even opened her mouth. The judge denied that request, had her walking like every other witness to the witness box. And so, yeah, there we have. This case was fast-tracked. Would have been smarter for Diddy and them to wait until after Cassie got given birth to have her on the witness said? It might not have been up to him. And Diddy has been without bail in jail since what, last

September. He wants to get it done. I'm sure he wanted, he wanted to get this going. Yeah. Yeah. How effective do you think her testimony is? Because I see people really going back and forth on this. Some people are saying, oh, it's the strategy of the prosecution to, you know, garner sympathy with the jury because they can't deny some of the things that she's saying. But I guess the other part of it is, is the testimony that she's giving going towards proving the prosecution's case against Diddy. Yeah. She's essentially the lynchpin for their case. And I say that because she was involved with Diddy for over 10 years. So she is a treasure trove of information. She can describe in detail this system of abuse that she claims did he had over her

life or career. She could talk about the employees that he had, his inner circle that the prosecution claims he used to facilitate crimes, to cover up crimes. What I'm reading about Cassie's demeanor on the stand, especially on direct, is that she's able to concede to some bad facts, right? Bad facts, meaning I was in love with him. I absolutely wanted to do the freak off to make him happy. Where normally you'd have somebody who's super combative, like always trying to explain their decision-making. But no, she was like, hey, I fell in love with him.

He was a great guy, but could also testify to the abuse. And so she came out very confident. She's definitely not the 19-year-old that didn't met. She's a grown woman who has two children, a husband, and one on the way, a kid on the way. And so she came off very credible. in fact, on cross-examination, she's doing the same thing. The prosecution really wanted to highlight on direct all of the violence, the abuse, the threats, the manipulation, just the bad parts of the relationship.

The defense is doing the opposite. They started off. They're cross-examination with you and Sean, you and Sean Cones were in love for 11 years, right? Yes. And you loved him? I did. Do you believe he loved you, too? Yes. So they're trying to paint this picture of a long-term loving relationship, but it was jealousy-fueled, and it was problematic. And so they're coming out the gates, evidence of text messages, gushy text messages. For example, I love you so much. I'd fly wherever you needed me whenever. That's from Cassie to Diddy a year after they got together. Two years after they got together, I love you so much it hurts. That's Diddy to Cassie. So again, they're playing up a very

loving relationship, the opposite of what the prosecution was doing when she was on the right. And that's to be expected. All right. So let's talk about the trial. Let's get a more bird's eye view of it. Because I think sometimes people don't know or people are confused about what exactly is on trial here. Okay. Yeah.

What exactly the trial is about. All right. First of all, I'm going to ask three questions. One, can you define sex trafficking? Okay. Two, can you talk about exactly what the charges against Diddy are? Okay. And then how those charges are different than somebody who just has a freak, nasty,

let's get it going lifestyle. All right. I'm not going to remember all three questions. So the first one you want me to address are what, let's start with what the charges are. Yeah. All right, five counts. The leading charge, the most serious charge is the racketeering conspiracy charge

because it carries a maximum penalty of life in prison. One count of that. Two counts of sex trafficking by force fraud or coercion. That carries a mandatory minimum of 15 years up to life. So if he were to be convicted of just that offense alone, he's looking at 15 years, nothing less. And then you've got two counts of transportation to engage in prostitution. So let me just take the racketeering conspiracy and define that for people.

Okay. The prosecution is saying that Diddy ran a criminal enterprise. was the leader of this enterprise, not an individual who's working alone. The prosecution has always contended that he had an inner circle of staff workers, bodyguards, high-ranking employees that helped facilitate crimes and to help cover it, right? So we heard testimony from Cassie, for example, on direct, where she talked about bodyguards who stocked these rooms for freak-offs with lubricants, condoms, or baby oil, all the stuff that they needed. paid people off when they needed to be, you know, quiet.

So again, crimes are being committed. They're helping facilitate these crimes because the freakoffs were illegal. And then also the cover-ups, right? What's illegal about a freak-off? The freak-off, because he was, we get into the transportation and the sex trafficking. So basically hiring prostitutes to come in across state lines and have sex, not to mention sex by force fraud or coercion. So we're going to get into that.

Okay. Okay. other piece of the racketeering is that they have to also prove that this enterprise engaged in a pattern of illegal activity. What they're alleging is arson, forced labor, sex trafficking is underneath that umbrella, obstruction of justice, so many other different crimes. The arson that stands out for me is the claim that he blew up a kid cutting car, arson, right there. Okay. Sex trafficking by force, fraud, or coercion. The prosecution needs to prove that Diddy recruited, transported, provided individuals to engage in commercial sex acts.

What are commercial sex acts? Sex for money. That's what makes it commercial. Okay. And that he did it by force, fraud, or coercion. We kind of had a sense of the force, right? Because the video that pretty much spells it out, right? He's physically abusing Cassie.

And what Cassie testified to, she gave more context to that video. she was saying she left a freak off before it was over. Super duper important. Yes. Because the video itself is being painted as an isolated domestic violence incident. Cassie is saying that she was beaten because she left a freak off and she wasn't supposed to. That is really important. I don't think people are getting that.

So exactly. So when you see the video, you're right. The defense attorney were saying this is a one-off. This was an altercation between two people who were in a relationship for over a decade, fighting about a private issue like infidelity is what they claimed, and that it had nothing to do with rapeteering or sex trafficking. So what the defense was trying to do with that video that was played over and over and over again by the prosecution is try to distance the video from the allegations in the case. What they're saying is that video demonstrates domestic violence. That is not what he is charged with.

And it does improve the other crimes that he is charged with. So you're right. They're trying to remove that video from the allegations in the case. But what Cassie did on direct examination for the prosecution is provide more information about what happened before that altercation and what happened after. And what she said was they were there for a freak off. She left. I think she might have said that Diddy was in the shower, which is why he had the

tower around his body. So she left the freak off in a rush. She didn't even have her shoes on. You can see in the video she's trying to put her shoes on and he dragged her back. So yes, very important. Now where was I? Okay. So by force, fraud or coercion, that's a sex trafficking, right? Charge. Now coercion, people don't understand coercion. We understand force, but coercion is a little blurry. Coercion can happen by nonviolent means, meaning a threat to your reputation, a threat to a threat of harm, psychological harm. And what the prosecution was alleging

and what Cassie testified to was that she was so afraid that Diddy was going to release footage of these freakoffs. He recorded them. He had plenty of them on all these devices. And she had that looming over her head. She was scared about her career. She was scared for her family. She was going to be

humiliated. So she had that coercion and that pool to want to no, not to want, to do the freakoffs because she was afraid that he was going to leak these, these videos. Transportation to engage in prostitution. Essentially, getting individuals to cross state lines for the purposes of prostitution, commercial sex acts.

The prosecution alleges that freakoffs happened in California, Florida, New York, even a visa. So you've got the interstate there and you've got international. Now, what was the second question? I think you covered, I think you inadvertently covered at all. Yeah. Those were all five charges, right? Five charges, but there's two counts for each of the two charges, yes, and one count of the racketeering for five total.

You mentioned that we, everyone's been focusing, and obviously we know why, on Cassie's testimony. But you mentioned that there were other escorts that have testified to. What have they said, or do we know, because I think I haven't seen anything about it, that they said that has gone towards the case, proving the prosecution. case. So there was one escort. He was witness number two. And he was testifying about Cassie inquiring about his services. He thought he was actually going to be dancing for a bachelorette party. When he got to the door, she's wearing, you know, a red lingerie, high heels. Apparently, Diddy was in the corner wearing a white robe. He had a bandana over his face and a hat. He didn't recognize Diddy initially, but the second he spoke, he said he immediately knew who he was.

Cassie said something about, this is what she testified to and what he testified to, that she said that she, her husband liked seeing her have sex with someone else. They started to massage each other, things, you know, escalated. They had sex. And they utilized his services on more than one occasion. And then he also testified to seeing on a couple of occasions, Diddy being physically violent towards her, dragged her by the hair to a different room of the hotel,

heard what he thought was slaps. And then he came out of the room and he asked the escort if he was ready to resume. And this was after a beating, right? He also testified that Diddy took a picture of his driver's license and said, this is for insurance. When asked how he how he proceeds, that he set a threat. So again, he is forcing sex trafficking by force fraud. And I got to say alleged. I'm not, I'm not making an argument for either side. But this is what the prosecution is saying.

This is how he was doing, he was committing sex trafficking by force, fraud, or coercion. So he took a picture of this man's driver's license. The man also said that he felt like him and Cassie started to develop, to develop a certain level of friendship that he felt when asked, why he kept coming back, he stated that he wanted to make sure she was okay. He also felt like in those moments of violence, he couldn't help because he was afraid for his own life. So that's what he testified to.

So last thing I'll ask you, I know a lot of defense lawyers, people who are lawyers, defense lawyers, whatever. A lot of them seem like they, there's a, how can I put this? When you listen to them speculate, they seem to think that Diddy has a really good chance at acquittal. And they almost seem, the mind of a defense lawyer is very interesting. They like to get people off.

I guess just like, never mind. No, I was a promote defense story. It's not about that. Well, it seems like they come at a case from the standpoint of, I could do this if I was in this situation. Like, there's enough to work with. So I'm hearing a lot of people saying, yo, I think there's a chance in an acquittal here.

I think that Diddy really has a good shot to get off here. And in a federal case, you normally don't hear people talk like that. Like, why do you feel like they're saying that? Are there holes in the prosecution's case here that could lead to acquittal? Yeah, I mean, for sure, right? The main dispute here is whether this was consent or coercion. And what we heard from the defense attorneys in their opening statement, they kept repeating this one description about the accusers, that they were capable, strong adult women who were involved in consensual sexual relationships. So to prove that they were not coerced, that they participated willingly is, you know, the prosecution has a burden to do that.

And so when you're watching these freakoffs, which I'm assuming that the prosecution is going to play at some point, and the defense is going to argue like, look, look in the video, how they're enjoying themselves. They're going to make this argument that Cassie, an adult, right, who basically stayed in a relationship for over a decade. She had the opportunity to leave year one, year two, year three, all the way up to 10 plus years. They're going to make that argument. Do I think that they have a solid argument with regards to that? Sure. I think what you're hearing from defense attorneys is, I mean, their perspective from that position, right? That's what they know. But it's not that they want to get someone off. It's really holding the prosecution to their burden. And some defense attorneys feel like federal prosecutors have abused this RICO statute that usually when you hear about RICO, it's applied to, you know, mob bosses like drug lords, right? You know, it's not it's not for this. We've only recently seen that with Harvey Weinstein. that Jeffrey Epstein and now and now did it. I'm sorry. Young thug as well.

So and it's so far reaching. You get to have all these prior bad acts be, you know, basically brought into this wide umbrella. And so they're basically saying that that's not fair, right? That a lot of these bad acts would have been statued out, right? Statute limitation. But you can bring them in under this like wide umbrella of Rico. So I think they're coming from that position as well.

But I mean, I think people are having a problem grappling with the fact, because I remember hearing a defense attorney say this, that it's very far reaching for the prostitution to say that Diddy created all these companies, right? Like bad boy, comb spirits, Sean, John, however many companies he has, for the sole purpose of gratifying this weird sexual kink. I think that that's actually the wrong way to look at it. Do I think that he created a record company and all these other companies for the purposes of trying to commit crimes? No, but I do think that over time, let me say this, they can prove it over time.

It has evolved as a way to facilitate these crimes now. Cassie testified that when she wanted to set up transportation or set up travel for a prostitute, an escort across day lines, she would call the company's travel agent. that is the way the prosecution is outlining this, that he is utilizing his resources, his status, his influence, his money, his power, his inner circle to help facilitate this. Cassie was saying basically he's got a machine behind him to carry this stuff out.

So, yeah. Last question for me, we talked about this when we were talking about the intro when this trial was just about to get underway, of certain things that the jury may be. expecting to see and how that could maybe be harmful to like the case because there's so much that's known about it. So it's like if they don't see this, then maybe they're like, well, he seems like this disgusting, abusive, violent person, but is he what they're actually trying

to prove? So I'm wondering, and I don't even know if you know this, who else can we expect to testify on behalf of the prosecution? Like, are we going to get an escort that says, I too, or somebody who attended a freak off, I too wanted to be in the music industry and I was promised if I did this, then I would get this, which never happened. Which I know Cassie kind of talked about her working on music

and it never came to fruition and stuff. Yeah, I want to touch on the first part that you talked about with the the salaciousness of this case, right? And that's another thing, Van, why defense attorneys feel the prosecution has a weak case because they're leaning too heavily on the salaciousness of the case when really they need to focus on the actual elements of the crimes

that they're charging ditty and really connecting the dots. And I think they're going to try to connect the dots in closing arguments. But showing too much of the salaciousness of the case. For example, they showed still photos from the freakoffs. And this was the first time anybody had seen a visible. reaction from the jury. There was a woman who gasped and held her chest. There was a man who looked and looked away quickly. There was another one who wrote in a notepad. So there can be too much of that for the jury to the point where they're now turned off or maybe seeing it as a distraction

from the prosecution because they can't prove their case. So that's another reason why I think defense attorneys feel they have a weak case that they would prefer going that route instead of really focusing on the technical aspects of the charges. There are more victims that were listed in the indictment. So Cassie was presumed to be victim number one. There's victim two, three, and four. There are going to be employees, former employees of ditties that the prosecution is going to call, and they're really going to give the specifics in terms of what their job description was, what they were doing, what they saw. Apparently, there was one former employee that claims that he sexually assaulted her. So we're going to hear more of that from the prosecution. As far as the

defense goes, I'm not really sure how they're going to, they don't have to put up a shred of evidence. You know, you know that. But they may put up an expert of some sort, you know, because they are saying, they're conceding to the bad facts. The bad facts is that their client was violent, at least on one occasion we saw on the tape, that he was heavily addicted to drugs. And a lot of the violence stemmed from drug use and jealousy. So it's going to be really imperative for the prosecution to really make a distinction between bad, immoral conduct, weird, sexy, kinky shit versus actual criminal conduct and why they are charging, uh, didn't, why they need to convict him of the charges that they, that he is facing. And it's not because, because the defense is going to

argue they're prosecuting him for his sexual preferences. And they've got to make it clear that they're not. So yeah. I don't know if I answered a question. No, you did it. Oh, you did. Okay. Fantastic guest appearance, I'd say. Her name is Yota Way. He. Yieldy, Twy.

Thank you for joining us on hiring. Thank you. Thank you, guys. Thank you so much for being here. All right, bye. Bye. That's enough. There's no more show.

The show is over. You know, there's a lot of stuff being, I'll say this before we leave with the Diddy with the Hallie thing with a lot of stuff

going on. It's important to say it. We got to change the mechanism of our reflex when it comes to these things. Yeah. We really got to have a conversation about our reflex. It's a lot of people out there

that, you know, some some I know in respect, some I don't. But, man, let's get through the information and let's make sure that our reflex to all of these things, we got to move past the Deez Hoses Lion era of society. We just, we have to. Because I hear a lot, particularly from my brothers in the hood and the streets,

about how the streets protect women. they, you know, if you're beating on a woman, then they handle it. The streets handle that. If you are a pedophile, then the streets handle that. If you, there's this cold, this morality that exists. Some of these places that, you know, if you're one of these people that exploits people or takes advantage of people or beats up women. or takes advantage of young girls, young boys, whatever,

then they want to get you out of there. It seems like y'all feel that way, except when there's somebody that did something that you like. Yep. It feels like you feel that way if it's somebody uncle up the block or if it's somebody from the other, but when it's somebody that's from the saint and it's somebody that you like,

you have a problem calling balls and strikes. I'm not trying to virtue signal or tell y'all to be better, but I am wondering if it's a bunch of bullshit because if you can't get somebody that made a song that you like, if you can't keep the same energy for somebody that made a movie that you like, then you definitely not keeping that same energy for somebody's uncle, for somebody's cousin, for somebody's brother, for the people that's hurting women and people in these communities

is all over the place. I'm starting to feel like a bunch of that shit that y'all talk is bullshit because y'all going so far, so far to protect yourselves, you're not thinking about protecting the people that you're supposed to be protected. And let me just say this last thing.

We don't have enough information about Hallie and DDG. And I'm not saying people should speak out on either way. I don't know what happened. But when it comes to Diddy, the people who still find themselves trying to defend him in whatever way. Let's not forget when the accusations came,

we could say we don't really know what's true and what's not. We don't know what, you know. But the moment he came out and put out a video, denying everything, saying how untrue it was, putting out statements,

everybody ready to demonize Cassie, the video comes out. This man has reportedly shown exactly who he is, a liar. And the fact that, knowing that, you still find something within yourself to defend it is despicable, disgusting,

and yeah, all the words associated with that. At the very least, let the trial play out, examine the evidence, but there are narratives that are being created, and the narratives that are being created are just some of them to seem seemingly charitable of death. And it's not about I can get

some people saying I want to watch what happens and and analyze it and all of that. I can get that. I can understand that. I think that's the way it should be done. What I'm talking about is specifically where the charity is given.

And the charity seems to be given at all times to the person that is the accused assailant. We got to get to the bottom of that. When there's, specifically when there's celebrity, money, specifically when they're celebrity, we got to get to the bottom of that.

Because like what I'm saying is if there shouldn't be any given, if we're going to get to a point to where we're just going to look at the situation, now, you know, I personally believe that when accusations like this are made, that it takes a shit ton of bravery to do it. But if there shouldn't be any given, I'm willing to have that situation. Let's just look at it, have that conversation. Let's just look at it and analyze what's going on. But we just seem to be a lot of brothers that I really, really respect. We just seem to be on the wrong side of everything.

There ain't no way around it. All right, take the thing caps off, but do not stop learning. I'm Van Lake & June. I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Hi, guys.