Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - A Mini-Episode on Difficult Discussions

Episode Date: October 24, 2023

Van and Rachel discuss the conversation around Shaun King and the release of hostages in the Israel-Hamas conflict (17:42) before talking about a CAA agent’s resignation after a social media post about Israel (32:02). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up guys? It's Van. Okay, look, this episode is short and there's a reason why. We had taped an episode with Kayla Nicole. You guys might know who Kayla Nicole is. She is a fitness influencer, on-air talent, someone who I've known for a long time. She's also someone who's been embroiled in the Travis Kelsey Taylor Swift situation. If you will, she was with Travis Kelsey for a long time. Most people knew them as a couple. And since the Taylor Swift, Travis Kelsey thing has happened, Kayle Nicole's life has been thrust into the media in a very specific way. She recently did a video on her Instagram called Dear Black Girl,

where she talked about some of the things that were bothering her and some of the ways that she was dealing with stuff and gave encouragement to other young black girls. We did about an hour interview with Kay Lynn Nicole. It was wide-ranging, but most of the same. had to do with her mental state, the state of her life, the state of her career in the scope of what's going on with her ex, Taylor Swift, how people are responding to her on social media, how people are dealing with her, how she's being treated, what's in the future for her,

some things in the past, we had some fun. I thought it was great. Rachel thought it was great. Kayla asked us to let her hear the interview before we put it up just to make sure that she didn't say anything to trample anyone or to represent anyone in a bad way. We thought that was very responsible, not something that we typically do for people who come on the show. But I've known Kayla for a long time. She was an intern at TMZ a long time ago when I was first getting started there. She's a friend. She heard the interview and then decided that she did not want the interview to be released. I'm saying that because this is going to be a sort of disjointed and short episode of higher learning.

We are, we apologize to the audience. It's embarrassing for us that we have to do this, but she doesn't want any more traumatic stuff to happen. She's going through a lot. She just decided that she would rather not have the interview air. So that means this episode is going to be a little short. We are sorry. I apologize. She's my friend, so I apologize to Rachel.

I apologize to everybody that came in to record. And I apologize to everyone who works on the podcast for their work. And having to put out essentially half of an episode. But we love you guys. We appreciate you guys being patient with us. And we'll see you Friday. Enjoy the episode. Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors.

What is up? How I learning is on. It's I, Van Lathan, Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. Rachel, you went to celebrate Nina's birthday yesterday. Nina Parker. Not just yesterday. Nina Parker collection.

The weekend. I love that you always promote her. Happy birthday, Nina Parker. Yes, yesterday was Nina's birthday. We were all supposed to be in Cabo. Hurricane Norma came. We said that on the podcast before, so we still didn't want to let her birthday go by. Because, I mean, obviously, that's super disappointing.

She had her hair and braced. Like we had, we were staying in this nice place. We had all these things worked out, outdoor activities, and then boom, a random hurricane happens. Hopefully everybody is safe from the hurricane because it did hit. And I think another one's coming too. But we just wanted to make her feel celebrated and special. And so we did a couple of things with her this weekend. And one of them was yesterday.

And now I have a headache. I have a headache. I made a peanut calada yesterday. You are these drinks. You like a sweet. True. I don't like that. I made a pinna colada. I got some pinna colada mix and I got it from

Rums. Drisly and I had some rum and I made a pinna collier yesterday so I had some drinks too but I wasn't. I used Drisley too. They should sponsor us. I wasn't I bet you do. I wasn't I didn't drink as much as you guys had. No, we didn't drink like that

because a lot of people drove and it was spread out over hours. I think it's she drove. I think it is hitting me because I just started drinking again like a week ago and I haven't had liquor. So this was liquor and I hadn't had liquor in a long time. No shots though.

No shots. No shots. No shots. Because I needed to make sure that I was able to prepare for this podcast. I have to pack going out of town. So I had to come home, pack, make sure Brian's good before I leave town. And then... How fuck does that mean?

And then I'm just like, make sure everything is like good. And then I'm a good wife. Yeah. Okay. And then I'm a cat and then I's prepared for this podcast. That's great. Where are you going? New York.

New York City. Remember that? New York. What was it the? The Pace Picante commercials? This, y'all's was made New York City. No. New York City.

Do y'all remember those? It was about, it was... I love when they shake their heads. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. They're also a lot younger than us. Donnie, do you remember that?

Donnie, do you remember that? Donnie is too. No, I don't. It was Pace Pekonte. Paconte sauce. It's like a salsa. Sounds gross. And it was like they were eating a salsa.

And one guy was like, he had this other salsa and is where is this salsa made? And it would be like New York City. And everybody went, New York City. I do actually remember that. Get a rope. They're going to hang them because he had the wrong Picante. This ain't Pace Bacconi sauce

and you ain't Bert Reynolds. But Pace is made with your fresh vegetables and spices by folks in San Antonio. This stuff is made in New York City. New York. Darling, we're going to have to shut you down. See, y'all remember this?

I remember. It's too old for them. I don't remember this at all. this actor though I was talking about him recently he was in an ex-files episode I saw and I remember him from Ray he's super he's this guy who at the beginning

of the movie is like we don't play no woogey boogie and whenever I see him he's like the the face of like racist white shirt what did he say Donnie you say we don't play no wuggy

boogie but Donnie why do I I know the exact actor you're talking about. Yeah, you know exactly what I'm talking about. I know exactly who this guy is. Wait, I was showing me. Oh, my God. Hold on, hold on.

I got to Google this now. I know. We don't play no wookie. Bucky. Donnie, keep that as a drop. Whenever somebody is. Let me show you this guy. Whatever somebody

Whatever somebody is being racist Whatever somebody is being racist Is this guy right here? Is this guy? Oh yeah His name is Billy Ray No, that's his name in the movie Gary Groves

We don't play no Is that right, Donnie? Boogie I think so, yeah I'm trying to find the clip of him saying Hey, keep that Whenever somebody's being racist to a black person

as basically what they're saying. What they're saying is basically we don't play no wooky boogie. Damn, they treat us like shit. You can't even play no music. We don't play no wookie boogie. Oh, my God. That's funny.

That is funny. Why were you talking about him, Donnie? Because he was in the Pekiccaccai commercial. He was in this, yeah, this Pucate commercial. No, but you said you were just talking about him. Yeah, he was in an ex-files episode I saw where he was playing a share. And as soon as I saw him, I was like, you can't trust this man.

He's fucking, he's racist. Lordy, Lordy. Saturday, I watched college football all day. Good games? Pretty good, pretty good, pretty good. Not a bad game. Not a bad day of college football. It wasn't as good as weeks past.

And then Sunday I actually spent a lot of the day talking to my Jewish friends. Shout out to just like checking in. I talked to Boaz Jaquine, a guy who I'm doing a movie with. We had a very long and robust conversation. So shout out to Boaz, a friend of mine and a dear friend of mine. The movie is called Once Again for the very first time, Rachel, you've seen it? Yeah, yeah, I did see it. It's good.

Great acting, by the way. Great acting. Mecca, Jerobam, fantastic movie. movies coming to you guys pretty soon. We got a lot of stuff going on with that. We have, and then I spoke to a friend of mine, Dax Holt that I knew from TNZ. Dax. We've done stuff with that. Yeah, we did Dax. Dax and Alicia had a podcast again. So Dax Holt. And then I talked to Rabbi Ari Lam for a very, very long time, very deep, raw conversation. So you're not emotional then. You're an emotional sad for Sunday. Most of those conversations

were an hour and a half, two hours long. I believe it. And you guys, there's nothing wrong with checking in on your Jewish friends to make sure they're doing okay. Not at all. It's a lot of emotions that are going on out there. There's nothing wrong with checking in of your friends from all different sides and all different parts of this. But in checking in with my Jewish friends yesterday and talking to Dax, we did not agree on everything. We didn't agree on a lot of things. Sometimes we didn't agree on anything.

Sometimes the only thing that you agree on is the fact that you care about the people as human beings. You know what I mean? You want to talk to them and be there for them. But at the end of every single conversation, it was always an understanding that you care about how somebody's doing and how their family is doing it, whether or not they feel fear and whether or not they feel scared and all of that stuff.

So it's nothing wrong with that. You know, guys, get in, talk to people. Of course, there's nothing wrong with it. Be a human. Don't let what's happening harden you from feeling for people that might be on a political, geopolitical other side of it. Don't be hardened about what's happening. Try to have your heart open and be a person in this time.

It's not going to hurt anything. I promise you it won't hurt anything. I only help things, as a matter of fact. What's going on with Brian? What do you mean? I haven't seen him around. I haven't seen him. He's a call.

He's a text me. He's just been working. Brian works all day. leaves the house at eight, comes back really late. He's a sole practitioner. He's running the whole office by himself pretty much. Do you think that if I lose another 15 or 20 pounds, because I'm only 20 pounds away?

No. Do you think if I lose another 15 or 20 pounds that Brian will be my friend? Because I think that's what's stopping it. So you're saying that Brian has fat phobia. I'm not saying he has fat phobia. I'm saying that Brian probably looks at me and says this jealous,

fucking. Okay, he doesn't do that. Okay, he probably looks. I can imagine Brian like waking up in the morning and he's, he's, you know, he's got morning abs. Because I have morning. A lot of people have morning abs. A lot of people have morning abs. Yeah. I don't have it. I have morning. Oh, I'm not quite as disgusting. And then by three, it's like, nah, nigga. Um, but Brian wakes up and he probably has like morning veins, like in his neck and in his cheeks and everything. And he probably I wonder what fucking kind of crazy shit van is looking at right now. Fat. He's not thinking that.

He's just been busy. Fat. And I'll make sure that he reaches out. So you don't think that. No, I mean, the reality is that me and Brian were on a trajectory of friendship. And then I came over to your house for the pool party. I took my shirt off and it's been gone. That's not true.

Y'all play basketball after that? Yeah, like it's been gone ever since. And the basketball probably didn't help either. I was running around, jiggling. And he was like, I can't do this. This is a situation. Tell Brian, I was like, Tell Brian,

I'm only 20 pounds away. 20 pounds away. My shoulders are popping out, 20 pounds. We'll do a Cowboys' Watch party or something. Fuck. Whatever. What are you talking about?

If I don't want to watch, if a Cowboys Watch Party, if I wanted to watch failure. Maybe we should all try to go to the game next week. If I wanted to watch failure, I watched the Republicans try to elect the speaker. Dead. Let's try to go to the game next week.

Okay, what's the game? Colorado, UCLA. I'll go there. We'll use your hookup, whatever it is, because you got all the hookups. I got a UCLA hookup for sure. Okay. I'll go there. I'll go there on Saturday.

We'll go there. No, we'll go there. We'll go to this game. It's at the Rose Bowl. Last time we were at the Rose Bowl, unless you took a fucking fat O. Remember this? Yeah. It's bad.

Yeah. We were all there. We're all there together. Actually, no. Brian wasn't. Brian was there? Was he there? Yeah, he was there.

You don't even. Oh, my God. I'm just so used to him not being there. Because he were. Oh, whoa. Yo, man. Hold on, bro. Do we need to have a deeper conversation?

Because he works. Like, our schedules are so not aligned. Wow. Because we're in two totally different industries. That's what I mean. Like most of the time I'm having to go with other people. He was there. Yeah, that was a Saturday.

Yeah, we'll go. See? On weekends, he can come. We got a big show today. Got a lot stuff going on. Okay, yeah, let's get into it. Whatever. I want to ask people,

a question. So we haven't been covering it, but I'm sure everybody is aware of what's going on over at Power 105 with DJ Envy. Have you been talking about this? I don't know the deep details. I just know it's like, you describe it. So I'm not going to go deep into this,

but I want to ask a question, and I'm really hoping to get an answer here. So in case people don't know, DJ Envy is a radio personality at Power 105. He had business dealings with his gentleman named Caesar Pena.

Caesar Pena was flipping houses. I don't want to get into the whole deal. Apparently, what Caesar was doing was not above board. It was essentially a Ponzi scheme. These are the allegations. First, these allegations took form

in a civil suit against Pena by a bunch of different people. And now it looks like that he's been indicted on wire fraud charges by the feds. So it looks like he has a federal indictment. DJ Envy was, had a relationship with Caesar insofar as he would promote Caesar on the

breakfast club. He'd bring Caesar on the breakfast club. They were doing real estate seminars together. He had invested some money with Caesar. The dynamics of their relationship are unknown, right? Envy is, maintains that he was a victim of Caesar, that he invested with money with Cedar that he never got back. And he didn't know that Caesar wasn't doing what he was doing. Caesar hasn't said anything about DJ envy but people are connecting dots and so a lot of people think that maybe envy's a little trouble my question is

why is everybody so gleeful about it like what am I missing what am I missing? Gleeful about DJ envy possibly Yeah like why is everybody so I never knew that or heard that before I like why is every there was

DJ envy is being you know what actually happened in this situation, it'll come to light for whatever reason or whatever will happen will happen and they'll get to the bottom of it legally, they'll get to the bottom of it civilly. But what I'm like actually asking the question is,

and I'm just like for people who might be following this, why is everybody celebrating so much? Like everyone is like, they're going to come get envy. Is it just jokes? Or is there something? I think it's jokes. I think people like mess. Right.

And in particular, I feel like people from what I've seen poke fun at him, right? Like, remember when there was all the talk surrounding when he opened up about, he and his wife talked about their relationship. That was different. Well, people were making jokes about it. Yeah, well, it was different just because the wife, I mean, you got to poke fun at that. I know what she said.

But my point is, is that people weren't taking up for him. People were making. Taking up. How can you take up for it? Well, the point is, is that I thought that I didn't know people were huge fans of him. I just don't understand what's like, why is it funny? I agree with you. Yeah, it's interesting.

I agree with you. But it's jokes. Everything is jokes, though. Everything is jokes. Everything is jokes. Everything is jokes. I've seen jokes being made about more stuff than that, so I guess I get it. All right.

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there really is no big deal of the day, but we have to talk about Sean King. Yeah, let's talk about it. Okay. All right, there's an ongoing humanitarian crisis in Gaza. This crisis obviously was started after the vicious, terrible, inhuman attack by Hamas on October 7th,

which is now being followed by an absolute destruction of Gaza. and what people are calling genocide and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians from the Gaza Strip. As we speak now, close to 5,000 Palestinians have been killed. A large portion of them are children. And there's increasing cause for the world to be involved here. We have not taken our eye off Gaza. But there are stories surrounding Gaza.

And one of them is hostages. Of course, when Hamas went in and did what they did. did, after the Hamas attacks, they took hostages. And those hostages are in the possession of Hamas, and some people believe they are also in the possession of a smaller splinter group

called Islamic jihad in Gaza right now. And people are trying to get the hostages home. One of the people that said they were trying to get the hostages home, Sean King. Sean King is an activist who I have personally raised money with before. I've personally raised money with Sean King.

Okay. All right? Personally raised money with Sean King for Shaquisa Clemens who if you guys don't remember was the young lady that was assaulted in the Waffle House she needed stuff she was her legal bills were eating her up

and Sean King and I raised money for her she got the money the money went to her and my dealings with Sean King in terms of doing stuff like that there's never been anything shady that's happened ever it's important to say

because a lot of people accuse Sean of a lot of stuff, right? Yes. I don't know the ins and outs of all that other stuff. The only thing I could say is, hey, I've raised money with the guy before for someone

and she got the money. And I didn't hear her say anything else. Raise money with Sean King. The person got the money. And a lot of other people that I know would say, hey, I have as many people in my life that say, hey, Van,

never speak to Sean King again as I do people that say, hey, he helps us out and does a ton of stuff. So when it's like that, I just got to go on my personal dealings with the person, right? Because there's a lot of smoke and then there's a lot of water. All right. This situation, though, I feel like Sean King, and I jokingly texted him before this podcast

and now texting him again after this podcast to try to get some clarification on it. I think Sean King owes an explanation to people in this particular situation. This is a very serious issue. On his Instagram, he has been a resource. to show the atrocities that are happening against the Palestinian people. He's been doing that. And he has made a lot of people very, very happy

by continuing to show what's happening in Gaza. He's been an activist for the Palestinian people. There were two hostages particular. Judith and Natalie Ranan, I hope I'm pronouncing that right. They

were captured by Hamas and they were recently arrested. Now, Sean King had gone on his Instagram and said that these were two people that had been taken. These people were taken by Hamas and they were being held hostage and that they were people whose family had worked with him or supported him. Donnie, if we can bring up the original post from Sean King, so I get this right, that people that had worked with him or supported that he was working to get those people back. And he was working behind the scenes to get those people back. All right. Thankfully, those two women were released a couple of days ago.

They were released this weekend. And when they were released, they said that they didn't know who Sean King was. They had never heard of him. Sure. Heard of him. Relatives of them said, first and foremost, we make it clear that he is lying. Our family does not and did not have anything to do with him, neither directly or indirectly, not to him or anything he claims to represent.

Later, the father, Natalie's father, said that her brother Ben had been in contact with Sean King. And Sean King posted on his Instagram correspondence between himself and Ben. Ben directly asking Sean King for his help. Yeah. And Sean King then posting about Natalie and her mom. mother, Judith and Natalie, and then being in contact with Ben saying that he was working behind the scenes to help him. Yeah.

So Sean did not lie about the fact that the family, the brother, reached out to ask him to help out. That's not a lie. He has receipts to prove that. Yeah. But a lot of people are still wondering, because after they were free, Chon King was like, this is something that we were doing, working on the hostages. and he said also he's working back behind the scenes

on a ceasefire. He said that as well. There's just different stuff coming out about it. A lot of people are saying Ben was a half-brother. Who cares? Directly, oh, go for it. Well, I just, I think people need to look at the bigger picture.

When I saw this story, it's like, okay, you know, there's been a lot of controversy. or maybe I should say some controversy surrounding Sean King previously, right? And so people have very strong opinions about Sean King. I think he's polarizing.

They either really like him or they don't, there's not really an in-between. And so when I first saw this, it's like, oh, you know, people, I feel like as much as people root for Sean King, they're also looking for ways to poke holes and things that he says and does.

I do believe that, for whatever reason. So when this came out And then he came out with receipts It's like You already pointed out He's done a lot of coverage to show To speak on behalf of the Palestinians And there are a lot of people

Who found that extremely beneficial And are grateful for that Who are fighting for freedom For the Palestinians Or to shed light in Western media Or to this side of the world Because they feel like Western media Is not covering it

and have been, have commended Sean King for that. To me, that's the bigger picture of what should be focused on, not whether or not, because, and also the focus is bringing the hostages home, which we all agree we want to happen. These are two hostages that he claimed to have affiliation to that are home. So let's focus on the fact that they're home and they got home rather than looking at Sean King saying, you didn't actually help him. They're home. So now Sean King has to stop what he.

he's doing to address people attacking him because they do root for him to fail to say, show receipts that he was in communication with somebody from the family. I don't even think he owes an explanation for that. My thing is fight to bring the hostages home. That's what you're working for. And that's what people want to happen on both sides. So all of this outside noise about is he the brother or the half brother to me is ridiculous. We need to be fighting for the cause of bringing hostages home. Innocent civilians, everybody can agree that innocent civilians needs to be the focus. Palestinians that are being, you know, that are trapped in that city with nowhere to go with no resources, those innocent civilians that were attacked by Hamas,

the innocent hostages that are being held by terrorists. That needs to be the focus. And this, to me, is such a distraction. And I really think it's ridiculous. Like, I actually hate that He had to, you know, fight against this, show receipts of private messages. And he also says he recorded conversations. It says he recorded conversations, yeah. The rest of it to me is just ridiculous. So this was his original post. It says this is Natalie Renan.

She's a teenager and is believed to have been taken hostage near Gaza border this weekend. She's an American citizen and just graduated high school in Illinois earlier this year. Her dear family has asked that I help them find her and bring her to safety. Natalie and her family are supporters of mine. Protested against police brutality in the United States with me, and I've spoken out against injustice in Israel. I believe we have confirmed that she was not killed in Israel, but we are asking for proof of life right now. The family wants her to be alive, but if she's been killed, we'd like to know this too. If she's alive, I can confidentially help broker her return.

Please send me proof of life or death. Please release her. I'm asking. And then he puts he puts that all on there. That is absolutely an amazing thing to do. I think what people are more interested in, I think it's fair to be interested in this. Interested in what? The truth of the details here. Nally and her family are supporters of mine.

They say they don't know who he is. All right. Okay. Protested against police brutality in the United States with me, and I've spoken out against injustice in Israel. First of all, like all of that stuff right there? Too much. Not too much.

But I do think it's fair in a situation like this where everyone is trying to walk a line of validity and credibility so closely. It's fair to ask, okay, well, what did you do to help get the hostages out? who are who are you talking to that could release a hostage she doesn't have to but like in something like this it's very very serious Sean to me I personally know and believe he always has the best intentions look you guys I'm telling you right now that let me rephrase that in my dealings with Sean he's always had the best intentions I've never had a fucked up situation with Sean. Whatever people are talking about, whatever people are through, I've never gone through it.

So beyond taking their word for it, there's nothing else I can say but that. Like, I can't say that I've ever been in a fucked up situation with him. But I will say in this situation, I know that he wants to move on and continue to do his work. And I know that he wants to move on and not have to address this. But I do think it behooves him in this situation to go a little deeper into either what it was that he did, who it is that he knows. He doesn't have to give any names or anything like that, but just insight into the mechanism that he would have used because bringing a hostage home from a situation like this is such a hell of a claim to make.

He's not necessarily claiming that he did it alone. Sure, he's not. He's not. That's such a hell of a claim to make. That's such that denotes. such incredible influence and incredible reach that people are going to want to know that that's valid and how that can be used in the future. So as much as I don't have anything negative to say about Sean, and I really don't,

I hope that at some point he's able to go deeper into this because even that first... Can he? Because this is what I'm thinking. If I was going to say something negative towards it and I already said my piece, on it. It's that and the reason when you read it and I go, is it too much? Some of that I don't think needed to be said

in order for you to do the work to bring them home. It just intimates that there is a deeper bond with the family that it seems like there was, but we also don't know what the conversation was that Ben did, that Ben did, that Ben, that him and Ben had, but it just seems like

he represented something that wasn't quite accurate. And what I will also say is when it comes to hostages and what you're posting. I have a friend who sadly his cousins were the victims in the terrorist attack by Hamas on the Israelis at the festival and they lost their lives. But before he knew that they lost their lives, he was posting pictures and saying, bring them home, bring them home.

We, you know, like we were trying to find them. then he's immediately put up a message and was like, I'm told to not say their names and to post their faces because they're watching. And if they're hostages, it can be basically was saying it could be a bad situation to bring more light and attention to them. So if I was going to say something negative, if that is true, then that's a problem too to be publicizing,

especially with someone who has such a huge platform and a lot of reach that a lot of people are paying attention to, particularly. The brother asked them to, though. The brother asked them to. But if that is true, that concerns me as well about posting names and images if they're hostages because it brings light to, hey, there's a lot of attention surrounding these. And it just makes them more visible as they're being held as hostages. Yeah. So, yeah, I, maybe that message was a little too much for me.

But I also think people just need to, like, let him do what he's doing. And I think people took this just a little to use it as an excuse to attack Sean King. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Trimfaya is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Trimphia, proper training. is required. Tremfaya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely

active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramfaya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Tramphiaraadio.com. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust.

spectrum business. So visit spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. More fallout from the happenings in the Middle East. CAA agent Mahad de Kille resigns from the board, a board after a controversial social

media post on Israel. Maha DeKill resigned from the agency's internal board and stepping away from our leadership duties as co-head of the motion picture department. She represents Tom Cruise, Natalie Portman, and Madonna, huge, huge clients who are really, really loyal to her.

I'm told that if she were to leave or be ousted, that there are at least some of these people, gigantic A-list stars that would leave CAA with her. She'll continue to work with her clients and CAA colleagues but her leadership positions on some of these boards is dunzo. On Wednesday, she reposted a statement from an account labeled Free Palestine, and an account weighed in on Israel's response to the October 7th terror attack. This is what she said.

This is what the post said. The post said, you're currently learning who supports genocide. And then she added her own caption, the caption was, that's the line for me. What's more heartbreaking than witnessing genocide, witnessing the denial that genocide is happening? She later deleted both of those things. she was contacted by variety, and this is what she had to say. I made a mistake with a repost in my Instagram story,

which used hurtful language. Like so many of us, I've been reeling with heartbreak. I pride myself on being on the side of humanity and peace. I'm so grateful to Jewish friends and colleagues who pointed out the implications and further educated me. I immediately took the repost down. I'm sorry for the pain I've caused.

Despite that apology, it looks like that either she decided to leave or probably was forced, out, perhaps was forced out, from some of her leadership duties with CAA. This echoes a trend that we're seeing. And that trend that we're seeing is that there are people who are taking names in this situation. There is an NYU lawyer, NYU lost student, should I say, that has lost out on opportunities

for jobs because of some things that she had to say about the conflict. There are CEOs that have wanted to essentially blacklist college students from Harvard and other universities around the country who have had things to say that were pro-Palestine. Sometimes they say these things inartfully. Sometimes they say these things downright aggressively. But it seems as if, in, I just, just say it plainly, it seems as if your career is on the line whenever you speak about this. Yeah.

That's incredibly dangerous to me. That, to me, is boring on some McCarthy-era. It is. Blacklisting and namekeeping. And I don't see how that helps anybody. It doesn't. But people are so in their feeling. about what they, how they view what's happening over in the Middle East that they aren't

seeing logically or clearly when it comes to this, which is why I said on last podcast, or one of the reasons, I'm not saying anything because you can't, and it's not even saying something to have an opinion about it. It's just having a nuanced conversation to talk about what's happening. It's in, outrageous people, no matter what. And it's like you can't even have a conversation about it without someone being offended by you just talking around the subject. And shout out to thought warriors. And a lot of thought warriors who message me and said, you know, like, please keep discussing what's happening. Please keep using your platform. You know, like, this is why you have it. Just like, like,

thank you for being vulnerable. Like, we love the discussions you in Vayner having. I received a lot of that. So thank you, you know, for those people who reached out after last podcast. But I dreamed last night. No lie. This is before I even saw this story. You sent this story. I dreamed last night that I missed out on an opportunity because somebody was mad at the snippet you posted about me crying about the podcast I was listening to. I, kid you not, I dreamed I lost out on a job. because, you know, like I'm in the process of auditioning for something. And I dreamed that that was what was denied of me because of me showing emotion about something. That's what I feel like the state that we're in right now.

And you shouldn't be. I don't understand why you can't discuss it. I don't understand why you can have a conversation. I don't understand why. Actually, I'm not even going to say that. I'm not even going to say it because I'm afraid of what I'm afraid of what I, if I say it, it's going to be issue. See, I'm not even going to say it. I just don't understand why you can have a conversation about it.

I'm going to keep talking in a very general sense. I'm not going to say anything. I understand why. Because I've seen it before. Let's try to do something here. Let's try to parse apart our feelings. And this is something that I understand a lot of my Jewish friends can't do. They're emotionally and culturally connected to Israel as a state.

And so it's difficult to parse apart their feelings for Israel as a state actor from their feelings as Jewish people, the Jewish diaspora. It's hard. It's hard to do because so much of what Israel represents Israel's existence, Israel's safety, represents their feeling about their right to exist in their safety. If Israel isn't safe and if Israel doesn't have the right to exist, the question then becomes to a lot of my Jewish friends, are Jews safe? And do Jews have the right to exist? And that's not just for Jews and Israel. It's not just for Israelis. It's for Jews anywhere. Right. Anywhere, right? For us, You have to be able to separate your Jewish friends and Jewish people from Israel as a state actor.

You have to in order to have the conversation. Because it then becomes a conversation for me as an American in terms of what I want to support as an American. And if I'm involved in it, I want it to reflect the ideals and values that I have. now it never does let's just be honest this is the same country that attacked Iraq a sovereign nation

that hadn't attacked it on flimsy non-existent evidence of them having WMDs or some connection between Iraq and Al-Qaeda this is a country that's committed numerous war crimes

this is a country that commits state crimes against their own people and always has right so we do not have the moral high ground in any way to come down

on any other nation We don't. We don't. Do this all types. Sponsoring, client terrorism, droning people, the suspension of the rights of prisoners in Guantanamo Bay, all this stuff, torturing people, whatever it is. The United States doesn't have the moral hiring. However, if we're talking about it, we have to talk about it in the way that we want to see the world. That's the way that we have to do it. And I think the conversation has to be able to be had about Israel as a state actor as it relates to the Jewish people. people because there are things that happen in Israel that are just not right with the way that I look at it. Palestinians in Israel, four different ID cards. Their movement is controlled. Bantu Stan's system in the West Bank. Right. There's all kinds of things that are going on that that aren't right. And by the way, Netanyahu is pretty, he doesn't even try to act like this is not the case. He talks about the fact that he wants Israel to be a state where Jewish people are the majority, where Jewish people have the power,

and if you're not Jewish, you don't quite have the rights that other people would have. Fundamentally, and by the way, not all Israelis agree with him. And by the, not even, not even, it's laughable, the, the situation that Dan Yahoo was in Israel prior to this. There was a huge movement of people that were reexamining what it meant to be in Israeli, reexamining what the right wing was doing to their country and calling him out all the time. So there is robust discussion about injustice and inequity in Israel, just like there is here. Right? There was a time in America where all the things that we're talking about were codified into law.

You know, there was a time when all of this stuff was a part of who we were. It still exists now. it still exists in those ways, and we're fighting to make sure that it doesn't exist, but it's a fight, just like it was a fight there. And so we have to be able to discuss that. We have to be able to discuss a military that powerful

and their capability on a people. And that should be able to be discussed without fearing retribution or fearing being punished for it. As long as the discussion has had respectfully, with compassion and with both sides being able to have dignity. You got to be able to have that talk. Let me tell you why, real quick,

let me tell you why I understand how something like this can happen. In my opinion, black people, the black people that I know, sometimes we have trouble with allegiance to institutions. Because institutions here in America haven't really benefited black people in any way.

So we're hypercritical of the government. We're hypercritical of the military, My dad, the most scared my dad has ever been is when he thought I was going to join the army. He thought I was going to the army. Doesn't want that. Doesn't want his son to be in the army. Doesn't feel that. I know a lot of amazing people that have served in the military and served in the armed forces.

I think they're amazing, but he didn't want that for me. Wasn't his view of what a son or, to be honest with you, what a black man should be doing. That wasn't his thing, right? I saw this when Colin Kaepernick knelt before the flag. The flag represents the institution. It was our opportunity to talk about America as a state actor. It was our opportunity to talk about institutions that were failing black people and how that was going to show up in the world, how that was going to show up for people.

You're kneeling it from the flag. The flag is supposed to represent something. It doesn't. And when everybody started to do that, people here got super, super offended. And then they started blacklisting people. that to me is a part of the black experience criticizing institutions wherever those institutions may be criticizing the American government

for some of the same injustices that it commits abroad that we realize and that we can see that the American that we're committing here at home. That criticism to me is almost inherent within me because I'm black. And I think sometimes a lot of the conversations I've had with my Jewish friends when I applied those same criticisms to things that I see with Israel, they take them as a cultural

attack when really that's not what it is. And I'm not saying that they're wrong because what's informing them is a long history of trauma and a long history of being expelled and being killed, being murdered, having to hire who they were. So they think whenever there is a criticism of Israel, there is a direct criticism of Jewishness. And I've had these conversations I don't understand that. You have to dip your toe into that water delicately, but you can't not have the conversation, especially now. So I'm not sure if this message went too far that she posted.

Well, and that's what I was going to ask you about the message. It's like, is this one of those things where you people, and I've said this before too, when people were getting on, like, why aren't you posting anything? Why don't you say anything? It's like because it's the way, how complicated and everything that what people are feeling around it, it can't be captured in a social media post. It can't, in my opinion, it can't be captured with a picture. There has to be, it has to be a conversation to discuss it. And so my question to you would be, is that, like, you don't even have to give an opinion on what she posted. I wouldn't ask you to do that.

It's just more of should people stay or people in a position of power, right, where somebody can misinterpret what it is that you're posting. Should they stay away from posting? But it doesn't mean that they have to stay away of having these conversations with people in their life, with people in their workspace, whatever it may be. But on social media, you just can't do it because people are going to tear it apart. I don't think social media is the right place to have this conversation. I don't either.

I think it's a much better conversation to have from person in person. If I go back and read what she posted again. It says you're currently learning who supports genocide. Okay. And then she goes, that's the line for me. And then she said, what's more heartbreaking than witnessing genocide, witnessing the denial that genocide is happening. To me, that right there is worth a conversation.

It's worth a conversation to talk about, that's not anti-Semitic. But her apology made it seem like it was. was. Right. There, I don't see how that statement results in somebody being removed from leadership positions. That somebody being removed from leadership positions overseeing something like that. It seems like retribution.

It seems like, because I, if there was, if there was in any way something that, the only thing I could see perhaps is maybe the word genocide, maybe drums up feelings for Jewish people that probably makes them feel the victim of them who supports genocide. But that, to me, this right here, it doesn't have anything to do with anti-Semitism. I can't see how that would be anti-Semitic.

I don't either. I think they're looking at the question of what's more heartbreaking than witnessing genocide on the hills of, you know, thousands of people. being murdered by terrorists. It's like, like the, she didn't say the other side. She's basically saying,

this is the most heartbreaking thing. And so it's not, that's the only thing I can think of is that it's not considering the other side, but I still don't know if I agree with a removal of that. I don't agree with the removal of a position based on it. But that, I would think that that line is what it is. Witnessing the denial that genocide is happening isn't the thing.

I think it's the question. that she reposted, because she reposted this, these aren't her words, that she was posing in this statement. Last thing I'll say about this is that less conversation is not going to make this any better. Agreed. Everybody is running to their silos, running to their corners. We're not going to get anywhere with less conversation. To your point, social media is probably not the right place to delve deep into this,

but I don't think you're going to get to a place where people, people can understand each other with less conversation. But in order for that conversation to happen, you have to let people make mistakes. You have to let people make mistakes. Here it is with me. I've heard a lot of people say this, the truly last thing I'll say.

People will say, if you talked about George Floyd or black people or stuff like that, you would be ousted immediately. I implore people to stop saying that. the examples of people who question poke fun at, say that people that get like stopped by the police should just comply. The amount of people who make excuses for mass shootings,

that the amount of people who make excuses for racism, the amount of people that crusade against voting rights for black people, the amount of people that do all of that stuff, These people are powerful in power positions. They are legislators. They are media titans that say, hey, this never happened. Trayvon Martin deserved it. People that made Kyle Riddenhouse a star.

Yeah. Right? That paraded him around all of that stuff. Please, please, please. We deal as black people with the legislation of art and justice all the time. That doesn't make it right for anybody else to do it to anybody else,

but we deal with that as a facet of existence. It's just a part of what it is. He deserved it. He was acting bad. He was a thug.

She was a thug. Whatever. That's a part of it. So all of that stuff, it just digs this whole deeper. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and make it a mess. You don't need weather tech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a

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the life of Samantha Wool who led the Isaac agreed downtown Detroit synagogue she was found dead

with stab wounds outside of her home Saturday morning investigators working with the FBI to analyze all of the information obtained

in her death up to this point the motive for the killing is not yet known I've course, of course there's an assumption that it has to do with a lot of the tensions that are happening worldwide right now. And if that in fact is the moment, the reason, the motive for her killing,

shall I say, that is absolutely disgusting. Either way, she's gone. My heart goes out to her family, to her friends. She had a beloved group of people who supported her in both her professional work and her work away from her profession in Michigan. I've heard from some of those people. they absolutely loved her and I'm sorry for her loss it's a very active leader in the Jewish community but also in bridging the gap

between Jewish and Muslim people so the death of Samantha Wall we went to take the time out to recognize that here on higher learning and we'll have more information on what happened to her as we go forward. Real quick is this fucked up I have to talk about this real quick rapper viral song

60 miles I'm not I'm going to play the song. Actually, Donnie play a little bit of a song. So this kid is nine years old. I do not know his real name. Recorded his first song called 60 Miles. His name is Little R.T. These are some of the lyrics. If she ain't sucking dick, little bitch, you can get the fuck up out of my shit. 100 round. Hit him with the Glock. Take a fucker down. 100 round. Bitch, we in that kill. We're going to take him down. 12 behind me.

We're going to do 60 fucking miles. First of all, you're going to get caught doing 60 miles if you're running from the police, you know, they have souped up engines. This is one of the worst things I've ever seen. Shame on this kid's parents. Apparently his mother runs the Instagram account. Oh, shoot. They're all in. Shame on every adult that was in the video. I'm not trying to judge anyone. I don't judge y'all for what y'all feel like y'all have to do. I'm not trying to judge anybody morally. I'm not in a position to judge anybody morally. You can just check my browser history. But for victimizing this kid, for victimizing this child and dumping some of the worst garbage that currently exists into his head,

you should all be ashamed of yourself. I say that unequivocally. You should all be ashamed of yourself for not giving this child, this child, the opportunity at a life that's more than if she ain't sucking dick, bitch, get the fuck up off my shit. Giving this child a life more than 100 round, hit him with the Glock, take a fucker down, represent the worst of us. Absolutely true. Unequivocally, you represent the worst of us

for grooming this child to be a monster and a criminal. Now, I've heard a lot of people talk about what they see out in the world as it relates to how grown people live their life. Well, how do I explain to my kids this person or how do I explain to my kids this person? And they've used that, the kids, I want to see that same energy

for this kid who's being sexualized at nine, sexualized at nine years old. Sexualized. Talking about getting his dick sucked in here. Sexualized at nine years old, right? And criminalized at nine years old.

I'm not Martin Luther King, Jr. In any way. I'm not. I'm not the guy to tell you how to live your life. But even van, fucked up XTMZ porn addict

van at this and say, this is wrong. This is wrong. Swift rebuke. I don't want to see this kid booked on nothing. I don't want to see this kid interview nowhere. I don't want to see nobody talk to nobody. This is wrong.

We should have the parents on. I don't want to talk to them. I actually do. I want to talk to the mother. I think there's a lot to ask surrounding this. Because clearly, one, there's no way that you can defend it. And I believe in don't hide behind your sons. Instagram account. We need to see you. We need to talk to you because obviously you value going viral and you value money and attention than you do over your son and his well-being. And if you can stand in that, then come on the podcast and let's talk about it. What went into writing these lyrics for your nine-year-old son to say? That's crazy. Who wrote this? That's crazy. Then you filmed it, did a video as you called out all the adults that were had to participate in this to make this thing come to life.

Because what's important to you is the moment. A headline, a clickbait, the conversation surrounding your nine-year-old son. Thank God we don't know his real name. At least that's the only bit of privacy that they gave this child. All right. Don't support that. No. Don't support that.

All right. We got to go. You guys, challenge yourself to have difficult, compassionate conversations. Have them with your Jewish friends. Have them with your Palestinian friends. Try. Try, try, try, try, try right now to be a human person. Nothing is going to be accomplished with more separation and division.

Make the effort right now where it counts. Not just about this. Make the effort to care about what's happening in parts of Africa right now. This is an amazing time in the world to practice reckless care. care about what's happening to black and brown people here, care what's happening about LGBTQ people here, care, care, care, care. Stress your care out.

Because under your care, you're going to find your humanity. I promise you. I promise you, you will. Take 10 caps off, but do not stop learning on, Van Lathan Jr. I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Bye, guys.