Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Amber Loves Trumps, Caitlin Clark vs. Rachel, and Apple Music’s Top Albums With Bryan-Michael Cox

Episode Date: May 24, 2024

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay kick off the podcast celebrating four years with the Thought Warriors before Van brings us a surprise topic (05:44). Then, they talk about the contradictory stance Amber Rose has for Donald Trump (15:17). Later, Bryan-Michael Cox joins the show to talk about the revelations and disappointments coming out of Apple Music’s 100 Best Albums ranking (40:43). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Bryan-Michael Cox Producer: Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to our learning on Van Lathen Jr. And I'm Rachel Lynn Lindsay. I don't like it when you don't do the yo-yo-yo. Is that true? Yeah. Like, can we start? Maybe I don't want to do the yo-yo-yo. Nope.

No, no. You didn't do it last time and it made sense. We started off serious. I got it. Bring it back. We're almost four years in. Actually, we're four, actually, we had our four-year anniversary. This is it.

It's right around this time. It's later, though. Isn't it late? Oh, no, it's like, no. It's like right now, this is the week. How have we not acknowledged this? We're four years in. Rachel?

Same to you, man. Yeah, it's fantastic. Yeah. Yeah, you know, people don't make it four years. What's going on with this Dallas jersey that you got? What do you mean? What's not Dallas is in the Western Conference finals? They won last night, a game.

Obviously, I didn't think they were going to win. Maybe shouldn't have won, but whatever. So I'm representing the hometown today. I know. What do you mean? I think it's quite obvious. Yeah. Now, as this airs, this one won't be the game that was on last night, but, you know, we're up.

So I'm representing. Teams playing well. Made a lot of moves at the deadline. Got better. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Two great players.

out there leading the team. Some role players also filling in doing their thing. So I'm going to ask you now. I haven't heard you talk about the maps all year long. I haven't talked about basketball all year long. But now you're on it, which is a thing. Now you're on it. Now you're on the match.

I have admittedly said there are too many games during the season. And I usually only watch holidays, big matchups, primetime matchups, or in the playoffs. I've said this before. This isn't new. If you can name six Mabs right now, I'll give you $1,000. All right. I'm assuming you mean on the 2024 roster because technically you said general.

You said general. I could actually play with that. I could play with that. I'm just saying the lawyer and me was like, technically, you only said six Mavericks. So I really could have played you. I'm just saying, I could have played you. Could I not? Thank you.

I'm nice. Yes, you could have. All right. You know, $1,000 go far at these things for me. So let me give my thousand. Why are you over here playing me? Luca, Kyrie, PJ, yeah.

Lively. Yeah. Gafford. Yes. Tim Hardaway, Jr. Yeah, you need more. Derek Jones. No, I do seven.

Derek Jones, Jerry Jones, I want my thousand. Give us some celebratory music. Rachel gets a thousand. $1,000. You try to play me. I don't have to talk about something all the time to know about it, okay? I pay attention, you know, when it counts, when it matters.

Thank you. You know what, to be honest with you, that's not uncommon. A lot of people play more attention to the NBA during the playoffs because, like you said, the regular season is very, very long. And a lot of people, like, a lot of people don't pay into the league until after, pay attention to the league until after Christmas Day. and then and then

play attention during the Christmas Day and then it gets kind of in the doldrums of it or whatever and then they pick it up after the after the All-Star break into the playoffs. You think the Mavs can win it all?

I mean, if Luca and Kyrie play like they did in game one, absolutely. But they haven't been consistent. And so if they can stay injury-free and they play like they did

with the support from people coming off the bench or other players stepping up like PJ who's been doing great, then I think that, yeah, then I think that even lively, especially what he's doing in his personal life or what he's had to deal with in his personal life,

yeah, I think they could win. You know, and they, players on that team have more experience than some of the Timberwolves. So I think that, but it's an exciting matchup. The game was exciting last,

night. So if y'all aren't watching, you should watch. And so is the other one, too. Anthony Edwards was gas. He looked a little tired. He talked about the fact that they were a little tired after. They had a tough seven game series against the Nuggets, who is the team that they're essentially engineered to beat. So I expected them to drop one of the first two at home. I think that the Mavs can win the series, honestly. I don't know how well the Mavs match up against, I'm assuming the Celtics will be able to beat the Pacers. You never know how the Celtics are going to play and show up. the Pacers absolutely fucked off game one of the series. So a quick little NBA corner right there. I didn't know into the NBA like that. It's exciting to watch because it feels fresh. Watching these conference finals feels very fresh. And somebody will be getting one of these superstars will be getting a ring for the first time.

That's fun to watch. So I'm more invested, I would say, than I have been in a while. So yeah. Surprise topic time. Okay. It's going to say if Oklahoma had beat Dallas, I still would have been into it as well. And I would have put all my Thunder jersey.

Caitlin Clark. A lot of people are talking about Caitlin Clark and what the WNBA players owe her. Ashley, just real quick, we didn't know we were going to be talking about this. Yeah, what they owe her. Put in what George Teague said.

about Caitlin Clark. This comes on the hills of Charles Barkley saying something that was kind of similar. LeBron, too. What does George Teague say? That they should let her score. Y'all used to be supposed to play hard against her, but y'all supposed to let her kill.

Because when she started having bad games, and it don't look like it's supposed to look like what we just seen from college and how we're so excited about her coming to the league and changing it. And she don't kill like that, it's going to like bring it back down the reality like they want to build her up to fall

but it's crazy because that is not in the W's best interest no because you want the WNBA to really write a script for Kaelin Clark no I'm not saying that as you as a smart person look y'all have charter flights she didn't are about to get your charter flights because she's so famous they can't she didn't get charter flights

all this stuff that they want and need more money all this new teams getting at it all this. When she come, you got to protect that at all cost. So you want them to let her win? Not let her win. But the fact, the fact is like, play the game. But play the game is within the game. Like, y'all notice the cash cow right here. Like, everything is changing. If she having a good year, if she average 22 and people are like, hey, Kail and Clark really that deal, the league is going to get bigger, bigger, bigger.

Give her four years to be that. And then, all right, now everybody lit. Rachel, do you think that the players of the WNBA are treating Caitlin Clark unfairly? You think they have a vendetta out against her to embarrass her and hit her with hard screens? No, I don't think it's that serious. I don't think that there's this whole like brigade coming after Caitlin ready to take her down. What I do think that comes out naturally in competition is, you know, like if that's your best player, we're coming after them. We're going to shut them down. We're going to make sure.

And so that's just a part of the game more than it is about taking it personal against her. That's at least how I feel. I'm sure there are some WNBA players who might be jealous or might feel a certain way that she's coming in with all this attention and maybe getting. You know, we talked about the, well, we didn't actually talk about Aja in all of this, about the shoe deal and all of that and how it was, she so should have had one and ended up getting one after Caitlin Clark's was announced. And so, yeah, there's some, I can see, you know, the discussion with all of that. But as far as people, there being this vendetta against her,

I don't think so. I think that it's just a part of the game. She's a rookie. There's a, I don't want to say a hazing process, but I think that there's a process that comes with that as well. And just the competition of the game.

If I was playing in the WNBA, I would want to be, to shut down their best player, if I'm a good defensive player, I would want a moment too. And if you do something, and it involves Caitlin Kla, it is going to be a moment.

So I just don't think it's that serious as people are making it. But it seems these days when anytime you mention Caitlin Clark, we have to have this whole serious conversation with it. And sometimes I just don't think it's that big of the deal. I think that hearing people say that, even what Barkley said and what Teague said, I can't say that they mean any home. I don't know what their hearts are.

I can't say they mean any heart. But it does diminish the WNBA when you say stuff like that. Because when NBA players come into the league, no one expects them to take it easy on these players. Thank you. Because they might be good for the league. I know the WNBA is in a different situation with the opportunity for it to explode.

But I don't hear anyone calling for the WNBA to take it easy on Angel Reese, who to me is also, incredibly important to the league exploding. I think Angel Reese and what she's been able to bring to the WNBA as a player that people have followed through her time at LSU, it's also very important to the league. Caitlin Clark is obviously the most important new addition to the WNBA that I can ever think of in the history of the league. However, this is a sport. These are athletes who want to go out there and compete at the highest level. That's it.

Exactly. So they're not going to let her score. They're going to let her do anything. It's time for her to get her a little bit. And by the way, as she's been playing, she's struggled a little bit early on. But she's been getting better. She's feeling the game.

She's feeling the game out. She's getting her feeling the game out. It's a learning curve. Yeah. Like, Kailin Clark is an amazing player. So are other women that are playing professionally in this league. They're outstanding as well. And so you're seeing her learn that.

And she will get better. But I just, I get, I'm so tired of, the Caitlin Clark in this way. Like I just, we just seem to be handling it with kid gloves and I just don't think that that's unnecessary and I love your point. It's about we don't do this with the men.

Why are we doing this? It's just a part of the game. Yeah. Let the girls, let the ladies play. You were known for defense? Oh, I was scrappy. You think you could guard Caitlin? That's why I love,

that's why I love Don Staley so much because I love the way that she played defensively. And I love the things that she said, like, don't watch the ball. You got to watch him right here in the center. Like, I was, yes, I was a great defensive player. It's why I played Post. Do you think you could guard Caitlin Clark? I do. I'm not saying, wait, wait, wait, hey, I'm not saying she wouldn't score on me. I'm just saying I think I can keep up with her. Okay. Let's say you guys play a fool. A fool. A fool. How many you think?

Oh, now she's going to score. She's going to beat me. I didn't say that. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Not a one-on-one. I'm not talking about one-on-one. I'm talking about if you're playing a full game and you're guarding Caitlin Clark,

do you think you could keep her contained? If I am in shape, yes. Sorry. I was a really good defensive player. I'm sorry. I do. I do. I'm not saying she wouldn't score.

I think I can keep her under 10. 10 points? Are you nuts? Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Are you nuts? I think I can keep her under 10. If I'm in shape, if this is 20, how old is she, 22? If I'm 22-year-old Rachel in shape,

I think that I could like, I think I could fluster her a little bit. Let me tell y'all something right now. And this is to the audience of higher learning. How tall is she? She's like six feet tall, man. Oh, I'm five four. I thought she was shorter than that.

So maybe not. So, but. No, I don't know how tall she is. Right. So you, but she's not going to be posting you though. So, I mean, in this game. I think, I think she's going to shoot over me, but I think that, like, I was pretty scrapping.

I think I could, she's six feet. So I'm giving 15 now. 15. You go home Caitlin Clark to 15 points. Okay. Yeah. So let me tell you all something. A lot of times on this podcast, you know, we talk about whatever, whatever's going on and people cast aspersions.

They say things about me. They say things about Rachel. I want you out, I want you out of know right now. That's a South Dallas mother. That is such irrational confidence. I'm not going to hate because I don't know. I don't know. But right now, Caitlin Clark, you guard.

for a full game. You're saying 15. Under 15. Under 15. I like it. I like it. You guys make... Could I today? I'm 39. No, not a shape.

But in your prime, you can hold her under 15. I didn't even say my prom. I said 22 when I was doing intermural. When I was doing intermural at University of Texas. I was doing intermural. We're the champs. We were the champs. And it's not like these people were good.

These were people who could have played. They weren't no Caitlin Clark. They weren't Caitlin Clark. They weren't Caitlin Clark. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. It wasn't terrible. You guys, we got to get into the big deal of the day.

Remember to like, subscribe, and share for more takes like that. All right. On the other side, those are you. It's elusional. Did you know about one? and three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling. Does this sound like you?

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people talking and maybe the people a bit confused. Amber Rose, who's, I guess I could call her a friend of the show. She's come on the show, came in person, sat, chopped it up with us. We had a good time. She is making news, in my opinion, for the wrong reasons. She is on record. Not record. She posted it.

Then double downed on it in the comments section. She is endorsing Donald Trump. She went to her Instagram, posted a picture. of herself with Donald Trump and Melania Trump. She's smiling with the caption that says Trump 2024 and people were shocked for a number of reasons, right? One, I'm not saying that I knew that Amher Rose was a Democrat, but I definitely didn't think that she was a Trump supporter.

She has been very outspoken in the past about Trump criticizing him. She has called him a trash can. She has called him a sexual predator. and she has not said anything complimentary to Trump in the past. Yet now she is posting on her Instagram with the captions supporting him and then proceeds to double down in the comments and say, quote, laughing my ass off, y'all think Biden cares about black people. Sad, do your research.

I did. I'll always put women first. Y'all want biological men and women's sports. Trump supports the most reason. compromise on abortion. Stop being brainwashed because we're people of color make your own decisions. She has since taken that comment down. Your thoughts when you saw this, I would imagine that you reached out because you are friends with Amber Rose.

And I'm sure, well, you tell me, I'm assuming this surprised you when you saw it. What were your thoughts when you saw it? I did. And if you can share anything in regards to. that conversation you had with her what happened? I responded very cynical. I'll tell you how I responded.

Honestly, when I see people that are, that I have any connection to or that I think I know something about, when I see them supporting Donald Trump, I always think that there's something in it for them. So you see Little Wayne supporting Donald Trump, even though Little Wayne wasn't a particularly political person

before that. But when I see Little Wayne supported Donald Trump, I think, oh, well, he's supported Donald Trump because he's looking for a partner or help with his case or something like that, which might have been the case, whatever. See, could I black do it for whatever you think the same thing. You always, I always think that there's a reason other than politics and just ideology that they support him, right,

or culture that they support him for the other reasons that people do. So I looked at this very cynically. I thought Amber's trying to go viral. I thought Trump is doing something for Amber. Not necessarily paid. Because when people say this person got paid to do this, it never quite works that way.

It's not, it's never that transactional. It's because that stuff is, like, you know, you pay somebody, endorse you. There's a paper trail to it. They come back. You're making someone who can take you down. The whole nine. It's never quite that transaction. But there's either access, same reason why anybody goes on, does something like, there's either access or something like that. So I thought all those things were true.

So I called her. And Amber, I think, is under, she means it, first of all. She's 100% 100% in. Like when I said we had a conversation, we talked for almost an hour, 100% in. And I would say that I believe that she believes the stuff that she's saying about Donald Trump. She's not cosplaying a Trump supporter or a cosplaying someone who has certain leanings with the right. I do believe that she is under the same ideological capture that I find. a lot of Trump supporters to be under, meaning that there are things that we talked about,

that when I talked to her about them, are assertions that she made to me and things that she thinks surrounding President Trump that are demonstrably false, demonstrably false. Like just not true. Like what? And if I were to, if we were to talk about

cultural things. Because the conversation about being a Trump supporter always evolves into why black people are afraid to support Trump, this and that, whatever. On Trump's spending. We talked about spending. And I'll say, oh, Trump, I'll spend every major American

president during his time. he spent so much. He ran the national debt up. Propaganda, not true. Like, well, it is true. It's not propaganda. It's not what somebody's been taught to believe about Donald Trump. If we're talking about a president and how much they're spending on foreign wars

and how much they're doing this, the fact of the matter is that Donald Trump ran the national debt up more than any other president. He spent a lot of money. And his tax cuts also. added trillions and trillions of dollars to the national debt. Trump was a loosely spending president. So when we talk about the economic fallout from things like that, those are facts.

And that's looked at from a lot of people as me being indoctrinated, but really it's their, in my opinion, it's them being indoctrinated not to believe these things. But there's something more to me interesting about the conversation in and of itself and Trump supporters overall a lot of the time when I talk to them

and I don't talk to a lot of Trump supporters. So, but when I do, there is a dissonance that exists to me that is unlike anything I've ever seen before. Hmm. Has to be. And perhaps I'm being a little naive, maybe some of my friends on the left,

have had the same dissonance. I would have to have these conversations a little bit more robustly with them about our differences to maybe see them. But Trump is in an interesting situation where any criticism of him, of anything that he's done or said, is deemed as an unfair attack

that's based upon lies in propaganda. And anything they've done, he does or does it do or tries to do is looked at as a positive. For example, Kim Jong-un, right? Trump's going down there. He's, if you look at that, if you look at the North Korea situation, that's just a political exercise, okay? What do we stand to gain by talking to Kim Jong-un, by like establishing diplomatic relations

in that way with North Korea? a lot of people say you legitimize a brutal autocratic regime. Now, the United States doesn't have very much more authority to really wag their finger at people like this. But if you're looking at why you wouldn't want to do that, then that's the reason, right? A nuclear power. That, you know, the whole safety of the region is teetering on all the time. The arguments that you would hear was Trump was he's trying to go down there and he's trying to bring them into the fall. and he's crazy like a fox and he knows something that we don't know and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah and the whole nine the question then becomes did he do it did he get the north koreans in any way to capitulate to what the west would want them to do did he draw them out from their relationship with china did it work is the question did it work and that answer is always like on the back

the effectiveness of Donald Trump and what Donald Trump did and how it affected the country is always on the backburn. Like if you have a conversation and you're talking about, well, hey, we're all, it's inflation. Inflation is because Joe Biden gave away all of these checks. And I'm like, oh, you know what? Trump gave away checks.

Like there are a lot of mistakes that were made financially during his administration that have led to the economic situation that a lot of people are feeling right now. And not only that, but if you look at a lot of economic markers and indicators, I'm not going to take anyone's experience at the gas pump or in the grocery store away from them. But if you step back and look, you're indoctrinated to believe that the country has fallen off of a cliff economically. There are things that need to be done, but there's a worldwide inflation problem. And I think sometimes the supporters don't pay attention to because they've been indoctrinated. But you can't get through to them because Donald Trump is almost completely infallible.

completely infallible. Say, on the phone, I say, hey, well, hey crime soared under Donald Trump. They went up 17%. Cap, lie, propaganda, never happened. I'm like, these numbers, I'm not manufacturing them from Democrat.com. We're talking about FBI crime statistics

that are then taken and put into, you know, you know what I mean? So I say this to say that, that the lesson that I learned from my conversation with Amber and in general is that I think that we do Donald Trump a favor when we paint him as when we don't get specific enough about the failures and the missteps that he made. Donald Trump is an asshole and a bad guy. That's not the reason not to vote for him.

The reason not to vote for him is because his policy, his view of governance, and the way that he looks at the American structure of governance is wrong, bad, and backwards. And what I learned when I had the conversation with her was that there are a lot of things that she believes that simply aren't true. I mean, they're just not true. And there are also, there's a lot of grace that's being given to him from people who don't really have, I feel like, a lot of the court information that he doesn't deserve. So the way I took the conversation was that I need to do a better job of just literally dispelling myths and errors that people might think about the Trump administration. Yeah. That's interesting. I wish I could have been, I wish I could have heard that conversation.

here. I'm sure the Thought Warriors would have wanted to as well. But, um, it might have been, not to cut you off. I apologize for interrupting you at Rachel. But I'll say this. At first, I, because I, I'll address that right now.

At first, I didn't want to run to Amber and be on and be like, hey, come on the podcast. And the reason why I didn't want to do that is because I wasn't sure that this wasn't some caught chase or move. I didn't want to reward it for that. I'll be happy to have her on now that I believe there's actually something to intellectually go back and forth with. I don't think it's necessary. And it doesn't sound like it was something intellectually to go back and forth with if there was no,

if there is this dissonance and there's no, I guess, you're saying that you're telling her things that are factually true. And she's just like, no, it's not. There's just no point. It sounds, I said I wish I could have heard it, but I would have been equally frustrated, I think, listening to it. When I started off talking about this, I said people were confused by it. And so I'm giving a perspective of someone who doesn't know her in the way that you do, but has watched how she has moved publicly. I'm shocked you didn't start this off with saying this is another case for the BBI because it is.

It is. You absolutely have to be opening a case on her. I'm shocked Tracy did not text me this. No, no, no, we did. Me, me, Tracy and Mike and talk about it. I was going to. to, I was going to actually surprise you by having Michael and Tracy just pop in on the podcast. I would have loved that.

I would have loved that. This is absolutely a case because I saw Huffington Post say that Amber Rose is in her Trump era. And to me, that's what it feels like. It feels like a phase. It feels like it's something that's fickle and fleeting. I feel like it's something she might walk back eventually. But whether it's true or not, to me, she has been somebody who stands to, tall in what she believes in. And whether you agree with things or not, it made sense to me.

And that's who she's represented herself to be in the past and even up, well, up until before this. So it's confusing because it's so contradicts what you have stood for. You are a sex positive person. You are somebody who has identifies, I believe, with being in the queer community. And if not, you've definitely aligned yourself with standing up for them. She did Rosa Costa. Okay. So she is in the community. She's a feminist.

And then you would get, and even to the point where you had a whole protest about rape culture and being sex positive and, you know, owning the word slut that has been used in such a negative way and only towards a particular gender, women. And so whether you agreed with her or not, you have to be proud and standing behind it. And then also Slutwalk was to protest

who is now a Supreme Court justice, Brett Kavanaugh. So for you to stand behind, it's not even that you just wrote Trump 2024. You then double down talking about Trump and his abortion rights. And he, you know, you're saying, I'm going to quote it wrong, that he has the most, what was the term? The most sensible.

The most reasonable compromise on abortion, which Trump. has been so inconsistent when it comes to abortion. He says one thing and then he says another. And then he's like, oh, I've got a policy coming on this. You just wait. And then he's like, nope, let's just leave it to the states. And then it's like, okay, well, if you're so about women's rights and you stand behind a man who leaves it up to the states, then you are standing behind a man who is allowing abortion laws to exist or anti-abortion laws that exist that put women's lives at risk, put doctors in jail for possibly or threatening them with jail time, for aligning them, with abortion and then extreme bans that don't allow for abortions with when it's rape or incest. It just contradicts everything that you have represented yourself to be. Also, the way that you've talked about Trump, none of that has changed. He's currently on trial for some of this. He, if you want to talk about women's rights, he puts Supreme Court justices on there that overturned Roe v.

Way. The Supreme Court is currently hearing a bill right, I mean, a case right now that might be a ban the abortion pill in this country. Everything is anti what you have stood for. So I walk away saying from this, who is Amber Rhodes? Like,

was everything else a lie? And I just, and I'm curious if this came up in your conversation. I don't understand how you can stand so tall in one thing, but then step into this. It doesn't make sense. If she's walking at bath,

then let us know. Because even in her comment on that she doubled down, that was transphobic, which is why she had to remove it, which is why I said she identifies as being a part of the queer community, yet you made a transphobic comment. So you're not an ally.

It just doesn't make sense, which is why I felt like she seemed to be doing this for some sort of attention. Like maybe we weren't talking about Amber Rose enough. I mean, look, that could always be the case. And you're right, it doesn't make sense. It's completely inconsistent with who Amber Rose has been.

in my opinion. But maybe not. I've never had a conversation about politics with her before. I don't think that I've ever really heard her have a conversation about politics before. I mean, we got into black on black crime shit. I mean, literally,

everything that we were talking about was like part and parcel like the entire group of talking points that you would hear from Candice or like people it's the whole kid and caboodle. It wasn't just, hey, this is this. It was hey, just a lot of it, I was like, whoa.

And then by the time that happens, I get into, okay, well, let me just poke holes in this mode. And it made me wonder, once again, everyone that wants to be, I'm super disappointed that she is a Trump supporter. and I also am a little disappointed, a lot disappointed, that I don't think that the foundations of it to me are built on verifiable facts. Her opinions are based upon actual thoughts that she has had from things that she is read and ingested. So I'm not going to take away the fact that it's genuine. From when I was on the phone, it's genuine. But it's also genuinely wrong. It's also genuinely wrong

A lot of the things that she was saying Genuinely not true That's scary to me It's scary To me that like I'm sitting back There's a lot of different situations That we could Disagree on

We can disagree on fiscal policy And how that affects Americans, right? We can talk about what we want the tax rate to be When the tax rate was in my opinion when it was the most conducive to compressing

the American wealth gap and why it should be that and whether or not politically you agree with that or politically you disagree with that we can talk about spending military cuts we can talk about

geopolitical issues and how we should be showing up as world citizens across we can talk about all of that like all of that stuff as long as the facts that undergird those arguments are all understood and agreed upon. Meaning, if I tell you right now that Biden sent $4 million to wherever, and then you say he never did that, then we can't talk about it. Because either he did it or he didn't.

And a lot of times with Trump supporters, I'll say, hey, this decision made by Donald Trump resulted in this. Or Donald Trump did this. And they'll be like, he never did that. It's left-leaning media bias propaganda. And you're swallowing the Kool-Aid. And I'm like, so what has Donald Trump ever done that was wrong? We have a conversation about Donald Trump

and the fact that he won't distance themselves from endorsements from white supremacists. The one thing I always bring back to Donald Trump, I always bring back when I'm talking to people about Donald Trump and his history on race, forget about all of the other stuff. we've talked about it before here, just the David Duke situation, you know. Donald Trump pretended like he didn't know who David Duke was.

Right. Because he didn't want to distance himself from somebody who might represent the thoughts and feelings of at least some section of his electorate. That makes me uncomfortable. That makes me uncomfortable for me to know, for me to know

that you got the clan in your corner and you're cool with it. Now, I don't understand how there could be any black person that would be expected to be okay with that. You got the clan in your, now look, if you guys want to say there are white supremacist elements in all parts. Yeah, who? You got the clan, hey, we should knock, knock, knock.

We want to be down with you. Come on in. Or not come on in, but I'm not going to tell you, but the door in the back is locked. And if you would have walked through it, you can be here. But I'm not going to tell you. don't want you at my political party.

That's, I'm not fucking with that. And, yeah. Hey, crimes went up. There was Charlottesville. It wasn't us that were saying that they loved Donald Trump. It was them that were saying it. It was Richard Spencer. It was David Duke.

It was those people that were saying he is our president. So, you know, it is what it is. Like it, but as far as what I can do is, is, I have spent personally me, I have thought that it was nutritious to criticize the Democrats and Joe Biden on which you have to call balls and strikes

on all politicians because they were the ones working for us. And I think that's wrongheaded. I think you have to criticize them. But the most important thing to me, especially as we get a little deeper into this, is to make the case as to why Donald Trump

is an existential cataclysm for American politics. That's more important to me than sniping at Joe Biden or sniping at the Democrats for the failures and foibles that they have. Because this whole thing is snowballing to the point to where you can't even make points based off logic and information to people that are so close and indoctrinated with Donald Trump. But if you want to have her on,

I would be interested in having her on just because she's not bullshit. Like she believes the things that she believes. Then we got it. Then I got it. There's no naï there. There's none of that. I mean, I think she believes some out now lies.

And I don't. I would say, I would say. How do you say? Like, if someone is well educated in things that aren't true, because the talking points are all there, they're just not true. I mean, I'm just being for real. The talking points are all there. It's not like she hasn't done the reading.

She's just. But has she done the reading on the other side? It just seems like she's picked aside and decided to study that. We talk about paying attention to what the other side is saying or all sides are saying. It seems like it's like I'm interested in this. I'm only going to read this because the only thing I would be curious to know is how you reason your past behavior, your public persona with aligning yourself with him. That'd be the only question that I would really want to know.

Otherwise, you support Trump. Do I think her posting that is going to sway people? No. I don't know if people even really believe her. I'd just be honest with you. To anybody as a Trump supporter, whether I know you, knew you, or will know you in the future, I think Trump's movement is racist. I think Trump is an enemy of democracy.

and one of the biggest destabilizing forces in the history of world politics and government. And if you are a Trump supporter, you are a part of that. No way around it. That's it. Nope. That's the deal.

Agreed. Yeah, you are with that. But if she wants to come on and talk about it, you know, Rachel's down. She wants to have fun with her. I did not say that. I do not want. But we talk, have a long talking.

I imagine we'll probably talk about it again. And you'll probably see her some other places. too. All right, so top 100 albums, Apple Music, we got an interview on the other side of the break about this. Brian Michael Cox, one of the greatest music producers of all time. It's going to tell us why he doesn't

put much stock on the list. We'll take a break and get to that. This episode is brought to by Weather Tech. Everyone knows Winter is the MVP and make it a mess. You don't need Weather Tech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner or road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips.

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Services not available in all areas. Okay, guys, Apple Music, set the music world to blaze. Yeah. They gave their top 100 album. of all time. Now look, we can talk about this. I have thoughts. Some of the lists I enjoyed. Some of it I was aghast. We thought that we would bring on somebody that knows a lot more about music than us. Brian, Michael Cox. What's up? A culture. God. Now, if you guys don't know who he is, I'm going to tell you who he is.

Notable Productions. Be Without You, Mary J. Blige. Burn. Confessions Part 2. you got it bad shake it off you don't know what to do we're talking Mariah Usher the golden age of black cultural music one of the architects of it

right here basically what I'm trying to say is this nigga is rich he's rich if you need a loan Brian Michael Cox is your guy okay so Bcox

thank you for joining us on how I learned today I'm just going to get right into it brother Yeah. And I'm going to put you on the spot. Yeah, come on. You were very, very involved in Usher's Confessions album, which is for a lot of people, a musical Bible. So, Staple.

Usher's Confessions was 95. Yeah, man. On the Apple list. You know what you think, Van was interesting about that top 100 list, right, is that They invited certain people to vote, right? So ironically, I was at Apple Music, promote my artist Jack Freeman, and one of the guys was like,

yo, we do this top 100 albums was you want to vote. And I was like, yeah. So they sent me the link when I went through the whole bit, you know what I'm saying, to vote. I don't know. I just happened to be there and I got asked to vote.

I don't know if they, who was voting, who they asked to vote, what peers they asked to vote, you know what I mean? Like, it's definitely a peer thing. It's definitely, you know, I guess people that work for Apple, you know, esteemed creative partners or something that they rock with.

I think it's a peer thing, right? But confession to be in 95 is, I was like, wow. You know what I mean? I think the most appalling thing for me is there's no Moriah Carey, there's no Houston, there's no Celine Dion, there's no Earthwomen and Fire. there's no, you know what I mean? I don't believe there was any Ozzy Brothers on there. Like, arguably, the Ozzie Brothers are probably the greatest group, American group, period.

Like, we're going to really talk about it from the 50s to now. There's not a group that's a brand from 1959 to 2024. You know what I mean? So you can argue that Ozzy Brothers might be the greatest American band. You know what I mean? Based on longevity and to not be represented on there, it's egregious. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, in no capacity.

You know what I mean? Like, 3 plus 3 wasn't on there. You know, we're going to talk about an album, a volume of a album that shifted the culture in 1972. We're not going to talk about at least that album. If you don't want to talk about the other, maybe the other things are 2 R&B, maybe, but what is 2 R&B?

Like, why are we so, like, why we treat like the stepchild? Yeah. You know what I'm doing? Why does it feel like R&B music, traditional R&B music? It's treated like a stepchild. I think that artistic, you know, alternative R&B was represented. You have, you know, Salon's album on there.

You have Frank Ocean's album that were really, really high. You know, I feel like alternative R&B that weren't, that weren't, like, didn't have, like, a mainstream, like, hit. You know, that confession sold 20 million records. You know what I'm saying? Like we sold 10 million in the first round. Michael Jackson Thriller ended up at number two is crazy than me. Like I understand, you know, I just think that's crazy. It's the biggest selling album of all time.

There's not a record that's coming close to it. There's not a record that influenced the music industry, that changed the industry. You know what I mean? Like Michael Jackson's Thriller. You know what I mean? I'm glad they put it in the top 10. I'm glad that miseducations are in the top 10 because you changed. I mean, she's number one, that's arguable for me.

You know what I mean? As an R&B head, it's arguable. You know what I mean? But it, you know, I'm not mad at it because she had, she represent, she represented hip hop and R&B. She's growing more than jeans. Yeah. Can I ask you some, Bcox? You said something real.

And look, I love Frank Ocean. I like blonde. I'm a channel orange guy. I like, I like, orange is so much better than mine. Yeah, yeah. Like, I love Frank. I like blonde. Can I ask you a question?

Frank is Frank is R&B, but it's R&B that's more palatable to, I mean, fuck it. Blonde is an R&B album that's probably more palatable to a white audience in terms of a critical response. Do you think that has anything to do

with the difference from that being at, I think it was five or six, and confessions, which it wasn't a black thing. Everybody loved. Confessions. He didn't sell 2 million records to black people.

Yeah. He's a million. We were like a 15 million worldwide doing the run. You know what I'm saying? So it's like with inch of 20 million, he probably be one of the only records,

R&B records in the past 20-some years to have a double diamond thing. that's not all black people. Yeah. Right, right. So it's not that. So it's not that.

So what is it? So what do you feel like it is? I think Usher represents, I mean, he's put the armor of R&B on his shoulders. And I think that we're dealing in an era where, when I say R&B is a very specific type of R&B too. Like, let's really talk about, like I said. you know, Frank Ocean, you know, is, it's a specific type.

You know, he's not a person that I think, or that album specifically, I don't want to say him as an artist. I want to say blonde that album specifically is not like something that was off. It was more about the vibe and it was more about him making that deal. You know what I'm saying? Him like, you know, like really, really giving it to the music business. You know what I mean? Like telling the music business, fuck you.

I'll smart it, y'all. And I got this project that's going to go crazy, right? And Apple music put the project out. So I got to say that it's charted high like that because it's something that Apple was directly connected to. You know what I'm saying? But I don't know why confessions would be so far down. I don't know why Mariah Carey is not represented at all.

That's insane. Greatest. she's the biggest you know female artist you know I mean in the business you know

she has 18 number one records she's so I mean 18 or 19 one of them she's so wow records I'm saying

even if you want or don't want to do the more hip hopy you know you know you know a butterfly

rainbow album you don't want to go down there you cannot tell me that her self-tattle album, music box,

or Daydream. Daydream, so timid. You can't tell me that not one of the, oh, those three albums, now, this is before I was working with Mariah. You know what I mean? I started working Mariah to Rainbow. I'm saying, you need to tell me

not one of those three albums, especially the first one and Daydream. You need to tell me Daydream don't make the top 100? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That is insane to me. The bodyguard on top 100? Wait, no Whitney is on the top 100?

No, Whitney didn't make it. See, this is what doesn't make sense to me, because Ebro put out, like, what they were basing it on. And Whitney and Mariah have been so influential for so many of the artists that were way ahead of them or made the list, and yet these people aren't represented. And it made me think as I, like, and this one was, sorry, worse than other ones, because I know Rolling Stones came out with theirs, I think,

earlier this year, something like that. Are these lists pointless? They're so subjective. I know they have a basis, but it seems like it's not followed. It seems like it's a little political. What's the point of even doing this if so many people are upset and we can't get it right?

I mean, I just think that we need to be, to rally behind, you know, our own shit. You know what I mean? Like everybody was upset about the Bronner Stone list earlier this year. You know, I think that, you know, I mean, let them have their list. Like, we get, like, you know what I mean? We can't, you know, this is all subjective.

You know what I mean? It does get us talking about the music again, though. Exactly. That's a definite positive. Like, it's a definite positive that we're talking about the music and we're actually talking about Whitney and Mariah and all of that stuff. It does get us talking about the music again. But I, what I said about his father, like, how but a soul is not in there,

like one of the most important albums to Stacks, and the Hot But the Soul or Shaft is not in there. Literally, every. Every hip hop or R&B record that was represented on this top 100 list has Isaac Hay's samples on there. So it was like we can't have like hot butter soul ring influential and in the top 100. You know what I'm saying? Like we can get deep because I know that certain things are deep. Like I know Barry White is too deep for white people.

I mean, I know, you know what I mean? I understand if there's certain things that are culture that's too deep, right? But then there's certain things that were so influential and that was so black, like public enemy means it takes a nation or NWA straight out of Compton. That just shifted. That just jolted. You know what I mean? Whatever, you know, just culture shifting music and moments, I understand that you have to balance those. You know what I'm saying?

Those things are important. You know what I mean? Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Tray's chronic is important. Like, they shifted culture. You know what I mean? So, you know, I look at the list and I'm saying, I understand some of the. a lot of those records I understand why they're there because they really shifted something

some of these records I'm like you know like oh man let me let me go back through me and Jermaine was going through it the other day let me go back through Jermaine was pissed too Jermaine was like Jermaine was mad about

the the lack of R&B representation on there as well can you're right no new addition no guy No, like, no Black Street. Like, no Teddy Riley at all? Like, are we, are we serious right now? Do you think Black Street should have been on there?

Top 100. A lot of Black Street. Another level sold 10 million records. We're going back. You keep talking about the way that the records are sold. Do you think that, do you think that the sales necessarily correlates to a record being in the top 100?

Just to let you know, Mariah Carey right here, according to the R-A-I-I, recorded in 2022, they said, she is the best-selling female artists, albums for albums. She's the best-selling, yeah, she's the best-selling female artist. I'm sure Taylor will get to that at some point. But as far as March 2020, she's the best-selling female albums artists in the history of music.

That's according to the R-A-R-I-A. I think that is culture-shifting things. seriously, right? Think about I think about how loud no dignity was. You know what I mean?

When I talk about another level, I'm not talking on black street's first out. You know what I'm saying? That shit was super black black. I'm talking about

another level that second album. Think about how loud no digity still is. You know what I mean? That was a culture shaping, shifting moment

for music in general when they sold 10 million in 1996. Yeah. Yeah. Like, once again, it's not 10 million black people. They sold 10 million, you know, that's all races. Yeah.

Like those of that, what that record is and was to not be, we're talking about a man that has his own genre. Yeah, Teddy Riley for sure. Right. We're not going to acknowledge none of that. The list felt very contemporary. I'm not saying that they didn't have older, older albums on there, but it felt contemporary.

Like Kendrick, and I love Kendrick. But Kendrick, especially where we are right now with Kendrick, being the only rap album in the top 10. So you're basically saying it's the greatest, the greatest rap album ever. Exactly. I love that album. I love that album. I love Good Kid, Mad City. You're saying it's the greatest rap album ever.

I love Good Kid, Matt. I love, I love Kendrick Lamar. Good Kid Mad City is one of my favorite albums all the time. Come on, man. Like it, it, I don't know, man. It felt like it was trying to be of the times. Because I, you know, like, the blueprint, but blueprint made it to what, number 11?

It was in top 20. It was in top 20. Um, um, but, you know, reasonable doubt. I mean, it's, because it's, Jay has a few albums on there, right? It was just one. A bluefin's on one.

I got to look, but I think, I think Jay might have been on there twice because he had blueprint on there twice. Yeah, I made these more doubt on there, which is, which there have to be, I mean, like, you have to, you have to add reasonable doubt you know what I mean like you have to talk about

you know and um you know you think about Dr. Dre and you think about okay the chronic obviously but it's 2001 on that too because 2001 was culture shifting. Yeah yeah yeah you know I mean if you have to pick out of the chronic in 2001

you'd go with the chronic though if you didn't want to put both of them on there let me ask you this and we thank you for your time Brian Michael Cox is a family man he made time in between family stuff to sit down and talk with this a little bit because we didn't want to be stepping all over ourselves with this.

And not to, you know, we talked about Kendrick, so I got a, you know, it's only fair that we give Drake equal time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. So take care of 47. I think, you know, I think that that's, you know, they're doing a disservice. That record was another record that was culture, you know, shipping.

People look at that record as his magnum opus. So you think it should have been higher? Yeah, I think so. So you take care of shouldn't higher. Okay. Do you think, you know, so take care is 47 and Confessions is 95.

That's crazy, by the way. That's crazy. No disrespect. You know what I mean? No disrespect. You know, I fuck for Aubrey. You know what I mean? That is, that is disrespectful.

That's out of control. You know what I'm saying? Like the fact that the confession is, not in the top 10 is crazy to me. I'm just going to just say that. I agree. It's like the usher disrespect is so wild, man.

It's so wild. It's not even that it's not the top 10. Brian, it almost didn't make the list. I'm going to make it. The usher disrespect, man, is so crazy to me. Why? Why is that the case? Why do they do this? I don't put no respect with my man's name,

yo. This is just crazy to me. It's like, we have to show you over and over and over and over again. We did Vegas for all those years. They show you over and over again. You do Super Bowl. He's showing you over and over again. He's about to do BT. He's going to keep showing. You're like, there's nobody, there's nobody even in the atmosphere

what this guy is. You know what I'm saying? At this age, think about Michael Jackson at 45. You know what I mean? Michael Jackson at 40. I don't want to. I don't want to. Was a shell of himself. No, no, no different. Mike's the greatest, but he was a shell of himself. You know what I mean? You know, to see

this dude doing what he's doing and have the catalog that he has, the hip records that he has, and at 45 or 44, however old he is, still performing at the highest level, skating, still doing the handstander, you remind me, still, you know what I mean? Like, this dude, he's still looking like it.

He still, he looked like the same age he was 20 years ago. Like, come on, like, what more do people have? have to do to just put in respect in this guy's name. And confession is at one of the only albums that have passed 20 years is about to approach 20 million.

Yeah. Yeah. We saw, we saw 1.2 million the first week. Yeah, we're crazy. It took over culture. If you were there, like if you were there, confessions

took over the world. It took, it took over. I was a college. You couldn't escape. It was the soundstrap of my entire company. You couldn't escape, yeah. You couldn't escape burn. You couldn't escape.

Confessions. Confession. You could not. Like, that was caught up. You couldn't escape confessions. Usher took the world over. Usher had it. Because I'm going to add.

The last question I'm going to get you out of here on is the question I always ask. You know questions coming. Usher, Usher had it for like a block of time to where Usher was just, his sound took over everything. Like, Usher. Let me jump back in, right? Confessions is so solid and so valid that the resurgence of it, like, superstar is like a new song. Yeah.

Like, you know what I think about this. You go to the club, you go, they play the superstars, the heavy rotation on the radio, you go to the club. And, you know, I did y'all know I got the Army parties that I do the whole nine. I'm running around the city. I'm running around the States doing this, doing these parties. Go to the club. Young people who were born in like 2004.

You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Who coming to the club? You drop superstar. It's like people go, it's like it's in a trance. This is a wrecking him out 20 plus years ago. That feels like it's brand new today. This is the potency of how important confessions is,

not only the black culture, but just the culture. You know what I'm saying? the fact that that record is number 95 in the midst of the relevance that these songs are having now, especially in that particular song is having right now, that song is more popular than any new record he put it out.

You know what I'm saying? And the fact that record is still so heavily played and so heavily revered everywhere. It's crazy that it's at 95. That's just nuts to me.

Yeah. Last question for me. What record should have been number one? Michael Jackson, uh, girl up. Yeah. No doubt, hands down, nine songs, eight singles, no, no skips. You know what I mean? Culture changing. We have the music video because of that. There was no, there was no such thing as what he did. There was nothing he, there was, what he did had never been done before. ever. You know what I'm saying? So, and when you talk to Q and you talk to the people who were a part of it,

you know, I've had a Quissy. Quincy Jones for the audience. You know what I mean? Talk to the people who are a part of this project, right? Like the years, I've been able to have discussions with different people who were a part of it. Quincy being one, a guy with us a dead ride, I'd pretend being somebody else.

I was in a conversation with back in the day. Rodney Jerkins took me over to Quincy Jones. That's when I first met Quincy Jones. Rodney Jerkins took me over there. We had the wildest conversation about that process. And they, for you to go into the studio and say, we're going to change, we're going to change the music business. This album's going to change music bits.

And to actually do it, there's no other album that could be number of it. There's not to be number. And this is coming from a person. was an avid prince thing. Yeah. So then, like, Prince is my nigga.

Like, that's who I love as a musician and that's like, you know what I mean? But you cannot, like, number two is just wow to me.

There's no way that that album should be number two. I love him right here and I love miseducation. And top five, you know, I can't argue with that.

You know what I'm saying? I can't argue with top 10, top five for miseducation. I can't argue with that. But number one, hands down all music, all genres. This nigga touched rock. He touched everything on that album.

You know what I mean? Like to hear the story of Beat It and how Quincy was like, yo, we need a record like My Sharona. Like, why is he even thinking that Michael Jackson should make a record like My Sharona? Right. You know what I'm saying? And then Mike goes off and makes Beat it. And it's better and bigger and produced crazier than My Shorona.

right yeah you know what I mean so it's like yo like we cannot disrespect the power of that album you know I mean I don't know what why why in that way I don't you know there's always other factors you know you don't know what people's personal outlook is on Michael at this point you don't know but there's there's no way that that record um there's no way that record should have been number two that record should be number one in my opinion question for me. And I got to do it because we've had the conversation. Brian Michael Cox is joining us right now. Just a ridiculously prolific music producer. Shout out to the whole crew over there in Atlanta, by the way. Shout out to John to Austin. Shout out to Germain. Shout out to, shout out to everybody over there. Shout out to Dallas. Shout out to everybody out there.

I've been asking this question for a long time. I'm going to ask you now, probably. I don't mean the blindside you. It's a very important question. I don't like to ambush people with questions. 8701 or Confessions. I'm on the record right now that Confessions is the better project, of course, but for some reason, I

like 8701 more than confessions. It's the same argument everybody says off the wall or thriller, right? And I can make a hell of an argument for off the wall. I can make a hell of a argument for off the wall. I swear I could. I can make an argument

that off the wall is, the thriller is bigger and better, but I can make an argument that off the wall is better music, better to listen to. It's got lower lows than thriller, yeah, but I can make an argument, I'll listen to off the wall more. 8701 or thriller. Confessions. Yeah. Throughout the years, it is, it is shifted for me.

right? Because if you asked this question 10 years ago or even 5 years ago, right? I might have told you 87-on-1 unequivocal, like not even question because from top to finish the consistency of the album

and then there's these Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis songs right in the middle of the album, right? Like, squirt it out and help me and like it's just certain records. in the middle of that album that are just

Jimmy and Terry just on another planet, right? And then you got a bad. You Got a Bad is my favorite Usher song I've ever written. Like, like, to me, if you asked me,

what's my favorite Usher song I've been a part of? You Got a Bad is number. Right? Like, so that's why, for me, 87-01 is it's always the lean to that. But rediscovering,

confessions in the past year or so. And we discovered those records and seeing the effect of those records. And that's just in the car, vibing, right? You know, records like, can you handle it? Records like red light, records like, you know, you get deep into the project, right? Of course, superstar, you know, of course, you know,

when you get deep into confession, you're like, wait a minute, you know. Even take this, take your hand as a dope record. You know, Jewish Housen records are a dope. record. But I said I'd have to say that. It's been difficult for me the past year to decide.

But as I'm thinking about it now, I'm still an 87-on-1 guy. I'm thinking about it. I'm compassionate. In the Terry songs, man, in the middle of that album, man, it's just vocally and the feel and it's just, you know,

and Mike City's hottest thing. I think the only song that I didn't really really rock with on that song on an album. It was two songs. Well, no, yeah, only one song, and it was the record at the end. You're the one or something like that. You know, because it just felt like, when I listened to it, it sounds like

a record of that time. No disrespect to the geniuses who made that record, it's so shocked and calling. But it just feels like, oh, that's a timestamp. It feels like, when you hear a record like, you got a bad, or you hear a record like help or a record like, you remind me,

or a record like, twerk it out. Those songs sound timeless. There's no time, there's no time stamp on them songs. How do I say? How do I say? What I'm saying? Don't Jimmy and Terry songs, man.

There's something about the quality of those songs versus, and again. I mean, Confessions is fire. I mean, like, we know that. Right. But I mean, just be in the car listening to whatever, you know what I mean?

See? This is what I said. Okay. This is what I said. People got mad when I said this. You guys were talking about a verses between Usher and somebody else. I said the real verses is Usher against himself. I said it. I agree with that. I said the real.

He has three albums. No, Uttu may have four albums that are arguably like classic albums. You know what I mean? So when you have, I mean, of course, throughout the other albums, They're classic songs on all these other albums, too. So it was like, yeah, like, I mean, you could do, I mean, because my way, bro, like. Yeah. I mean, look.

Clash, like I said, Usher, like I said, Usher Raymond is the most talented vampire that we've ever had. He's of all the supernatural beings that we know walk amongst us that, you know, aren't getting the older and the niggas knees never crack and nothing like that when I see him doing all of that stuff. Usher is probably the most talented of all the nocturnal beings that we have. A, Brian Michael Cox, we appreciate you taking time out, bro. Thank you. What you're pushing?

Tell them what you got coming for him before you get out of here. So, yeah, so I got, I'm Jack Freeman. I got an artist, Jack Freeman, his project is out right now a project's called Nina. Dope R&B artist from Houston. He's rocking. We've been building it slowly over surely,

and we're getting some love out here. Make sure you get you rock with that. Obviously, the made-for-me record's gone platinum. The money-long record's on platinum. Congratulations. Shout out to J-D. money long, my boy Jordan XL who collaborated with us on the record.

And we're working on that. We're working on a bunch of new artists, man. Like, we're in the studio with, you know, a bunch of artists now. And me and Jermaine, just really trying to just tag team and just get as much music out, minding our business, you know what I'm saying? Stay out of the way.

Hey, bro. Hey, bro. A lot more. You're doing it. Keep doing what you're doing. Stay out the way. Thank you for joining us on higher learning, my brother. Thank you, my brother.

No problem. All right, y'all. Later. Take care. This episode is brought to you by Sweet Green. The day doesn't ask for permission. Lunch window? Gone before you saw it coming.

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Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimfaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimfaya, including important safety information. All right, Rachel, what do you think? You agree with them or not? I agree with every single thing that he said, except for I think confessions is better than 8701.

But 8701. But I mean, he's right. A lot of it didn't make sense. I didn't even realize that Whitney and Mariah weren't a part of it. I just don't understand the basis of it. It seems a little political. It seems a little, I said this within the interview. It seems a bit contemporary.

like they're just kind of checking things off of what makes sense in 2024 more than who influenced the music of today and how we've got where we are, which to me is what should be representative in this list that Apple Music put out. And I do think, and listen, I love Lauren Hill. I think Lauren Hill is amazing. I like the unplugged album that she put out that a lot of people, you know, felt maybe felt a certain way about. But I think because we had miseducation of Lorne Hill and didn't, and haven't really had a real second album since, I think people deify her sometimes because it was like, we got this. We're just like chomping at the bits.

And I'm one of them. I want more. But because we haven't had anything else and because that one was so great, sometimes I think it gets a little bit more than. it should. So you're saying the miseducation of Lauren Hill,

I'm translating Rachel. It's not number one. It's a little overrated is what you say. No, I did not say that. It's not an overrated album.

It's not number one. No, no, no, no. It's not number one. I think that the reason that she gets a number one is because I do think people deify her because we only have one.

And it's like the curate, like it was so magnificent that it's like one of, And then she just, you know, she disappeared for a while. So I just think that there's this illusion sometimes with it because we haven't had more. But that's just my thought. And then Brian brought up a very interesting take to maybe they felt like they couldn't give thriller number one because some people have personal, you know, opinions about Michael as well.

Oh, I mean, personal opinions about Michael. Michael Jackson has been accused of molesting young boys. Yes. But I say personal opinions. I say personal because he was not found to have committed or done that, those acts. And so I say that to say, then it becomes an opinion because they're not, people say, they believe it anyway. That's why. Yeah.

So that and then also having a living artist at number one. That I thought about that too. Probably was like, you know what I mean? Having somebody that you could go out and like, like. come honor her. Look, I don't know. I'm just spitballing. I looked at the whole list and the first thing I said was, man, shout out to Ebro. Because Ebro, I hit Ebro about it. Like, shout out to Ebro. I'm like, it gets people talking about music. We just had a whole conversation with him about Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey and the Isley brothers. And we're not talking about who

on a yacht together or who got arrested. We're actually talking about the actual music, which is fucking great. And that's amazing. but part of me thinks 60% of these lists when they come out is rage bait I do I think it's a little political too I think 60% of these lists are raised bait

but it was fun it's a fun conversation to have and I don't think Apple Apple's opinions on music are going to change anything cultural and it's another thing and we do have more hill at the top it's a fantastic album even though you say that it's overrated

It is fantastic in the way that it is. And look, it is, it's more hill. She's amazing. She's amazing. Shouldn't have been number one. Should have been number one. I'm sorry. Should have been number one.

Yeah. Shouldn't have been number. No. Wait, out of this top 10, who would you remove? Let me look. Like, who shouldn't have been in top 10? Or which album? Maybe it's not a person.

It's the album. that they chose. Let me see. Apple music top 10. Symbol experts. Okay. So the top 10 is

Lauren, Michael, the Beatles, Purple Rain, Frank. Easy. Frank. Frank. I don't know enough about,

I don't know enough about Abbey Road or never mind to make an educated opinion about that. But I don't know if I would have put good kid Matt City in top 10. It would have been top 20. But if it was between those two, if it was between those two out of Frank out, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

All right, Roger Goodell has finally talked about Harrison Buckler's comments that he made a Benedict in college. Give us the audio. No, listen, we have over 3,000 players. We have their executives around the league. they have a diversity of opinions and thoughts just like America does. I think that's something that we treasure, and that's part of, I think, ultimately, what makes us as a society better.

But we're not going to go much beyond that statement that we made last week. Did this upset you? Did this enrage you? Of course. I saw a lot of Kaepernick talks surrounding this. Certainly. Can I say something? Sure.

It's your podcast. I can make a distinction between the two. And I've spoken my piece about Harrison so we know where I stand. And for some reason, you know, my take on Kaepernick always gets misrepresented. I have always stood by him. and what he represented on the field and what he lost, I only questioned why he still wants to be a part of this league. But some reason, that doesn't get, people forget that part.

This is the difference. Harrison Buckner, said Buckner, made his speech off the field. He made his comments extremely problematic. said it all last time, he gave these opinions off the field. One could say that Kaepernicks were made a part of the game, which caused, not agreeing, just saying, elicited a different response. That's the only distinction that I could make. When I saw a lot of the Kaepernick

comparison, I thought, well, one was a part of the game versus one was not. I would like to think that if Kaepernick had voiced what he felt at in a commencement speech, that he would still be playing. Who knows? I don't know. But it became such a part of the game that, you know, it caused, and wrongfully so, the NFL responded in the wrong way. But it caused them to react in a different way than they did with Harrison. That's my only thought. That's all I'm going to say.

I think that's a fair point. And I think we touched on that the last time we talked about this. Let me tell you why I disagree a little bit. I disagree almost. I disagree entirely. Okay, a couple of things. Of course you do. Certainly I do.

Why I disagree? Okay, so there are other situations where things have happened to athletes. And I feel like they have, the retribution has been on the court. when it was off the court that it happened. Like what? Craig Hodges. When the Bulls visited the White House, Craig Hodges gave a letter to George Bush at the time

and used that opportunity, his proximity with the president, to speak his mind. And Craig Hodges, after that, was blackballed from the NBA according to Craig Hodges. NFL example. Okay. I gave, no, there's, that was the only, uh, sports example I could give you.

I was giving an example of the world of sports. Um, obviously things that NFL players have done off the field have resulted in discipline on the field, right? There's a whole code of conduct around what you're supposed to do. And it's interesting because those are written rules about how you're supposed to act and comport yourself. But there is not a written rule about at the time that, that he did this. was about whether or not you have to salute the flag.

So Colin Kaepernick did nothing wrong. There wasn't a rule, league-wide, that was collectively bargained, about whether or not you have to salute the flag. What I would also say, saluting the flag is something that's done as part of a pre-game ritual. It wasn't a situation, especially during this that first happened. it was preseason. This was part of a pregame ritual.

Now, yeah, there is something to be said about one thing happening on the NFL's time and the other thing happening at a commencement speech. I get that. I understand that. I totally get that, right? However, the robust defense of Harrison Buckner's right to free speech and the league leaving Colin Kaepernick blowing in the wind

to me is a contrast that I don't see how I'm not supposed to be enraged, right? The league itself scrambled and the reason why they scrambled wasn't because of a free speech issue, it was because of the reaction to what Kaepernick did by a large chunk and portion of the fans

that watch the games and the men who own the teams. What Kaepernick did was in direct challenge to those people's ethics and values. Right? What Harrison Buckner said is not.

It's not in direct contrast with the ethics and values of a large portion of the NFL watching public, in my opinion. And it's also not, in my opinion, in direct contrast and conflict with the ethics and values of the NFL owners. Oh, for sure. If he had, I'm interested to know if someone was to give a commencement speech and say the NFL owners, treat the NFL players like slaves. We demand better, we want better, we want to be better.

If someone was to give a commencement speech and say, the NFL has proven that despite the fact that there's a large population of black players in the league, that the NFL is a racist league, and we need to root out the racism in our league. And to me, would that be met with odds free speech? it would be met with calls to Goodell, get this nigger in line, make sure that this nigger doesn't come out because really it's not about to me,

even the venue that it was said, your point about the fact that the league was probably thrust into a situation of dealing with this because it was done on league time and he was using the lead to get his point out. That's fine. He broke no rules.

His, it doesn't say free speech. They didn't say they support free speech as long as you do it away from. in the field. And if they're saying that now, they certainly didn't say it then because there was no rules saying that he could not do that. So they didn't care about it then. They're, there, by even having the flag out there in the first place, that's a part of the league's free speech. And I understand that inside of the league, which is a private organization, they can dictate what they think is, is speech that's okay and speech that's not okay. I get that, but they hadn't done that.

That was not a part of the CBA. So all I'm saying is what I believe they took revenge on Cap 4 was the message itself and how outrage the fans and the ownership was

because a large portion of them knew that that message pertained to them. Parts of what you're saying I agree with. I don't. definitely agree with what you're saying about how what Harrison had to say had no effect on the NFL and the owners. And so they weren't bothered by it. It didn't threaten them. It didn't affect

their money. You know, women are upset. The queer community is upset. They don't look as that as putting a dent on sales, on viewership or anything like that. Doesn't bother them. What Harrison did, this is where the distinction is to me when you say, okay, well, somebody else went and a commencement speech or somewhere else in a public setting and criticize the NFL, that's different from what Harrison did. Because when we talked about Harrison, I said it's interesting to me and a bit hypocritical that, not a bit, it is hypocritical, that you want to align yourself with a league that supports organizations or has football coaches that are women or refs that, and that doesn't the line with the things that you were talking about. This isn't an organization that stands against

some of the things that you believe in. But he was careful to not speak out. And I think if he had called them out, I don't think that would have been. And I'm not here to big up Roger Goodell by any means. But I don't think that would have been their response if he has specifically called out the NFL. And he didn't. And I think that, again, I don't agree with it. But it makes a, the NFL can make a distinction when one is off the field, one is on. One is a protest on the field. One is just voicing your personal beliefs and opinions. You got Patrick Mahomes out there saying how wonderful a guy he is,

and those are his personal opinions. We just don't agree. That's pretty much what the commissioner is saying as well about the league. But if Harrison had said specifically this is what the NFL gets wrong and does wrong, and it threatened them in that way, it would have been a different response. A couple of things. A couple of things. This is what I'm trying to say.

The only reason why I brought up someone directly criticizing the league is because it would have been an affront to the owners in that situation. They would have felt away. Because remember, Colin Kaepernick and what happened to him, wasn't because he broke any laws or because it was because he shook up the status quo that the owners, in my opinion, of the NFL that they live to maintain. he took a shot at the status quo. He took a shot at the widely held social belief

that you're supposed to shut up and play football, right? Now, and then once he did that, people knew who they had was Colin Kaepernan. They had someone who was going to speak out on behalf of black and brown people who was going to call out what he believed to be inconsistencies in the American justice system. and in America, period.

And every time you saw that, he was an avatar for it. And they don't want that at all. They don't want to be reminded of that. Now, what they don't mind being reminded of, now you know Harrison Buckner, you know that you have a homophore in uniform.

They should cut Harrison Buckner. Yeah, sure. You know that you have a homophone in uniform. You know that you have a misogynist in uniform. You know that you have someone who repeats anti-Semitic tropes. Antisemitic tropes in uniform. You know that. You know that you have that.

And he's going to suit up and he's going to be a part of that. Colin Kaepernick was blackballed. He was blackballed because being pro-black is bad for business. Being a misogynist, being a racist, and being anti-gay. Is it seem to be? It doesn't seem to be bad for business. That's the decision that was made.

It's free speech, say whatever you want. Well, Colin Kaepern is free speech. It's free speech. Same thing. Say whatever you want. It ended up being bad for business. No one is going to care that Harrison Buckner did this because he wasn't advocating on behalf of the people

that are supposed to shut the fuck up and be killed. So look, that's how I feel. Obviously, people know where I've been on this and how I feel about this. But this is, to me, clear hypocrisy about the league. I understand your point, though. I understand you can't, you, you can't like not bring up the fact that one happened away from the NFL business and the other one did. You can't not bring that up. I just, I personally don't think that that's what it's about.

I don't. Yeah. Yeah. Tell us about what's going on with, I mean, I want to hear what you got. What's going on with your people? With my sisters? Yeah.

Listen, first off, this isn't new, but I don't know if you guys have seen this circulating around, but first it was a viral video of the Alpha chapter of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority Incorporated, which is Howard, the first chapter ever, and it showed a probate ceremony. And it was pretty cool to see. And then shortly thereafter, you had someone who made that line who is now separating themselves or denouncing themselves from the sorority. And this is not new. This has been going on for years.

This is just getting a lot more attention because the TikTok video was made. Ashley, can you play a little bit of the video? This is an open letter denouncing the sorority by one of the young ladies who just crossed not even a month ago. Y'all. When I tell you in the 31 years that I've been a Delta, I have never seen anything like this. The denunciation trend is nonsense anyway, but this young lady who just crossed decided she was going to write an open letter to nationals and then broadcast it to everyone, you know, because God and Jesus and her values. Here's the second part of the letter where she talks about openly, the ceremony, the pinning, the crossing, the meaning of Minerva and how she's against all of that. I can't. I absolutely cannot. I'm going to need Big Delta to do something about this.

Maybe start screening these ladies. Maybe we need psyche vows for some people. This is absolutely ridiculous. Pay up to $12, $1, $1, $1, $1,500 just to turn around and denounce. It feels orchestrated. I don't know what she means by the Red Zone. I don't know that. Sorry, you can buck your eyes all you want.

I don't know what she means by that. But I think she's just talking about how fresh that they are because she says they don't even have their membership cards yet, which is where you have your name, the number on it, all of that. Which is why you can check people like the state representative in Georgia who's claiming to be a part of Delta Sigma Theta sorority, which I don't blame her.

Why would she not? And they have no record of her membership. And this woman just got elected to office again. Straight liar. Anyways, everything this woman said is true. The denouncing, fine, if you want to denounce it. But it's super problematic, especially for people who don't understand what it is to be in a sorority

or maybe have a little knowledge but they don't fully get it because they've never actually pledged. So you take this and they're making it seem like things that are happening or demonic or it's a cult and it couldn't be farther from the truth. It really bothers me because first off, rituals are a part of organizations, vans smirking at me. Rituals are a part of other organizations. Rituals. Oh, my God.

Well, there's ceremonies. It's like a ceremony. It's like tradition, things that you do. churches have them. So it's, so it's, no, it's churches have them as well. But the point that I'm trying to make is a lot of people are denouncing based on church and Christianity. Yet Christianity has rituals or traditions or ceremonies as well. So my thing is, is if somebody decides to put God above their sorority, then that's their, that's a personal choice.

But the sorority itself doesn't teach you anything even remotely close to that. We would go to church as a part of things, activities that we did. We would host this. Like we would have different weeks that we would host that were dedicated to certain things that embodied our five-point thrust, which is what we're really about, which is economic development, educational development, international awareness and involvement. Physical and mental health and political awareness and involvement. That's what we stand for. That's what it represents. Delta is a sisterhood.

Delta is about community. Delta is about empowerment. Delta is about leadership. So they can miss me with all the other stuff. The skills that I learned and being a part of Delta Sigma Theta sorority, literally I've been able to implement and have set me on a path to success in life. When I finished college and being a part of that sorority, the things that I did hosted, the events that we put on,

the money that we raised, the involvement that we had in the community, I felt like I could run the world after being a Delta Sigma Theta. And not everybody has the most beautiful experience, because every chapter is different and everybody who's bringing you in it's not the same. But when I see stuff like the Delta was so influential in my college experience

and has been thereafter in my life. Like I see a soror and, you know, it's, we know we went through something together and we have this bond in this community. It bothers me when I see stuff like this because it's just such a lie. So the red zone is apparently a Delta

online network for Delta. It's like I don't even do that. They got a sign in and a password for the Red Zone. Is it on the website?

It's like Red Zone DSTOnline.org. So apparently it's like a Delta social app that you go in there and use. That's the Red Zone. So that's what that is. It's just because people are wondering. So look, people would say that there are also So I don't know what these rituals are. People would say that obviously their religions have rituals,

but the point about Christianity is that they feel like those are the only rituals that you're supposed to have. That if you have the rituals... It's like a pinning sit. Like you pin or like you like to... Stop. That's not even a secret. It's not like I'm...

Well, never mind. It's going to say it's like I'm getting branded. See? See? Well, look. But look, here's a thing, though. But like, here's a thing. That's actually against Delta.

Like, you're actually not supposed to get tattoos of Delta. You're not supposed to get branding. Yeah. So here's the thing when you guys have your secret society. I think it's great. It's a secret society. It's not a secret society. What do you mean?

Usually you don't know in secret societies, you don't know who's a part of that organization. There is a secret to it. That's not necessarily. You know, if you talk about the. scrolls, no not the scrolls. The skull and bones, because the scrolls, that's from Marvel. The skull and bones,

the skull and bones society from like the Ivy Leagues and all of that stuff. You know who being those. Like you know who are in them. It's a secret society. It's a, because look, if it's a fraternity, you all join and you do all of it, that's one thing.

But the point that you guys have to drink the blood of a lamb and all of the other stuff. We don't do that. All of that, That's what made it as he, if y'all, y'all took a fraternity and then made it into a secret society.

Like, y'all got a special. We don't drink anything. We don't eat anything. There's no, like, no, there's no,

like, praising or worshiping anything. There's a Minerva mentioned. That's just a symbol because that's a, because we have Greek letters. Minerva is like symbolizes law and justice. And, like,

it's nothing, you're not worshipping anybody or any person in Delta. Nothing, nothing gets burned. Nothing gets burned? No. So they don't burn anything and say this is the burning of something, nothing gets burned? No.

I'm going to do it. You know what? No, there's no burning. This is my next documentary. I'm going to do a documentary into black secret societies. I want to talk about it. Do it. Yeah.

This is all very funny. Obviously, I jest. So you feel like these people are tripping with the denouncements? Yeah. Like, yeah. Would you be down with having somebody that denounced on the podcast? Um, no.

What? Yeah, they can come on. No, you know, my fear, you know what my hesitation was? You know my hesitation was? I don't want somebody coming on and telling, like, what we do in, like, meetings. I don't want, no, I don't mean it like that.

I just mean, like, it's, it is, it's a secret in the sense of, like, when you pledge what we, you'll find it's a secret society whatever you want to whatever but i don't want to say it like i don't want them to talk about like it's a secret so i just don't i don't want to be a part of somebody telling all the business is what that's that was my only hesitation but you want to come on and denounce and again it would be hard to me i can speak to epsilon beta because that's the chapter that i pledged at the university of texas at austin you know and sometimes people do get wrong

stuff. It's why people get kicked off the yard or like you bring in somebody who doesn't do things the right way you're supposed to. So I couldn't it would be a little difficult but sure. Sure. I don't want to act like I'm running away from something. Don't run away from it. We ain't going to do that. I just think it's funny to tease you about it.

I know you do. Delta, Delta, Delta, Delta. Lambda, Lambda. You know who the lambas are? No. You don't know Lambda, Landa, Landa? What is that from? Revenge of it.

nice. Oh, I've never seen that. Super fucking problematic. Watch it now. Terrible. Okay. I will. All right.

We have nothing else. Look, here's the deal. We've run out a podcast. We have Prentice Penny coming on a podcast Monday, Memorial Day episode of Higher Learning, which actually will be Tuesday. So that'll be a more abridged version of higher learning unless something crazy happens and Rachel was okay with the Rachel what were you doing for a memorial day what's your deal ahead it's a Houston going to Houston my little cousins graduating

um you know since since my grandmother we lost my grandmother I'm trying to it's hard to go back it's different so I'm trying to go back for more family events you know so we all come together some little cousins graduate in high school and it's also my cousin who's my best friend's her birthday So, you know, we're going to be out. You're going to be out a little bit. What Rachel's trying to tell you guys is that she's going to Houston hit me up. To Houston for Memorial Day. So if you see people standing on tables in venues with green grass on the walls and all you can eat wings and big ass drinks, it'll be Rachel going crazy in Houston for Memorial Day.

For all of you guys that are heading out to Miami, this weekend. Good luck. What the, what the fuck are you doing? Really? For everyone that hit me up and was like, yo, we're going to Miami for Memorial Day.

I just got to say something. Nigger, you two are old for that. Okay. We're so far removed. What are you doing? What are you doing? God, I wish I could say your name. Why don't you?

Tell me. Would you please for the love of God, stop. Stop, it's going to happen to you. Whatever it is, it's bad. It's going to happen to you. You couldn't pay me a million dollars to come to Miami this weekend. Oh my God, no. But remember, it's shifted.

It shifted. So it was like everybody, like our age went to Miami. Then everybody used to go to Vegas. Vegas Memorial weekend used to be popping. Do you remember that? Never went. And then everybody. started going to the Dominican.

It, like, traveled. Jesus Christ. And then I don't know what happened. I don't know what happened. It was, it just stopped after that. Or maybe I outgrew it. But it was, there was definitely like a phase.

Houston one of them spots? Houston is one of them spots. Well, I'm not going to be out like that. I'm not going to get it. It's fine. You're riding around. No, I actually, you're going to be out there with a chameeat out of Slim Thug. Shout out big,

hit me up. from urban politicians TV, UPTTB. Stay on your pimple at all times. Wait, slide in my DMs and let me know because I is asking my home girl if there's a day party. So I want to know if there's a good day party to go to in Houston when I'm out there.

So slide in the DMs, hit me up, let me know where to be at. I'm going to get a table for my cousin. Breaking news. Oh, no. No, no, no, no. We're not talking about this because of, Breaking news, a new mountain lion has been spotted in the Hollywood heels.

Reports from last week suggested a lion was spotted padding around a parking lot on the western edge of Griffith Park. The same location, my beloved pal P-22 proud for a decade, Hollywood's signing the back. A video was taken by man that appeared to show the lion minding his own business. He's a male and they say he's a beautiful, beautiful animal. We got us. And Beth Pratt broke the news. Wait, Beth broke the news. Beth Pratt broke the news.

I cannot believe it. Wow. Now I'm back. First off, we shouldn't have been talking about it because it was somebody who used to work with us, Donnie, who brought it to our attention. Donnie going to come back just to drop this news and bounce out again. Shout out to Donnie. We miss you. We miss you so much.

Well, Van, I'm glad we can end on a high note for you. I'm sure you are. I wouldn't be shocked if you were wandering around the Hollywood Hills looking for this thing. No, we don't go that back. Okay. No, as a matter of fact, now I'm not going. I'm not going to Griffith Park because I don't want to see him. I just want to take my life.

I'm actually scared. Yeah. Because, no, not doing it. Okay? I don't want to see him. I just want to admire him. I take the time. Glat me. Take the Ingleique it with me.

All right. Oh, what to see it. You gotta be in the stick. I gotta go. Take some caps off my stop around. Van Lutton. I'm Rachel Lundon. Hey, guys.