Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Analyzing Roger Goodell's Statement About Black Lives Matter

Episode Date: June 9, 2020

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay dissect Roger Goodell’s statement about the Black Lives Matter movement and explain why it rings hollow until Colin Kaepernick gets signed by an NFL team (7:10). They then discuss the problematic responses to the movement from Candace Owens (23:30), Terry Crews (27:55), Mark Wahlberg, and how to react to Congress taking a knee and wearing kente cloth (47:53). Finally they discuss the differences between defunding the police compared to reforming the police (57:35) and introduce a new segment called Unexpected Ally of the Week (1:25:15). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See terms at Fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. Y'all put your thinking caps on. Welcome to higher learning thought warriors. I am Van Lathen. I'm Rachel Lindsay.

You're a little slow coming in there, Big Rache. No, no, no. I knew you were going to do this to me. You were a little slow coming in there, Big Rache. What's going on? It's the connection. It's the connection. But there should be no delay between me and you when you're coming in right there.

Like a little slow coming in for Big Rache. I'm a little slightly under the weather van. Just a tad. Dun, done, done. Somebody put that in. Big rage is playing with a, with a clipped wing. You're okay? But that's okay.

I showed up. I'm ready to go. You did show up. How was your weekend? My weekend was good. I'm trying to think of what I did. Oh, I chilled. Like, I took a break from everything.

I felt like mentally overwhelmed with just a lot of stuff. So I needed. said to me, I'm going to quote this wrong. I'm the worst at quoting things. But, oh, you can't pour out of an empty cup. That resonated with me. So I thought, okay, I just need to refill my cup for a second and have some me time

and take a break from everything. You're laughing at me. You don't like that quote. I'm not laughing. I do like the quote. It's just like the quote, like, the quote sounds like, it's one of those quotes that be like people like put that shit on Twitter and they go, ooh, dog, that's a bar.

Dog, that's going to fuck their heads up right there. I'm going to put it on Twitter right now. Put it on Twitter right now. They were broke. Because think about it like this, dog. If the cup is empty, that means when you pour, ain't nothing going to be in it. So, dog, on a metaphysical type level,

you can't give if you empty, dog. You got to tweet that. It just seems like one of those deals. I get what it means, though. For the record, I did not have that type of reaction when she said it to me. I just thought, you're right. I'm a little, I'm a little empty right now.

That was it. I just need to take some me time. You got to do that every once in a while, right? Oh, the funny thing is I did exactly the same thing. Like this Saturday, I went, I went bass fishing. I'm sorry, what? I went bass fishing this Saturday. Went up to Santa Barbara.

In L.A.? Oh, okay. Check this out. I went up to Santa. I woke up, we woke up like 4.30 in the morning. 4.30 in the morning, drive out to Santa Barbara, go to Lake Kachuma, bass fishing. I had a wonderful bass fishing guide named Steve. We got on Lake Kachuma. We used artificial worms, all right,

and we stayed there from 7 a.m. to 3 p.m. catching bass. It was magnificent. Did you catch anything? Yeah, hell yeah. Steve was a G. Steve used to be on the professional Bass tour, he was a bass master. And we talked all about his experience being a bass master on the professional bass tour. Steve knew where the fish

eat. Like, we had a little radar thing to where we could see the fish and then just drop in on them and zip zip, zip, zip. That sounds like cheating. That sounds like cheating. I'm also going to note that a professional bass master, I think that's what you said, sounds made up. Steve has...

What are you talking about? Bassmasters is a real fishing tour. It's a fishing to a bass masters. They got all kinds of stuff. I would also like to note that I've never been fishing in my entire life. And you're from Texas. What is going on here? Don't stereotype Texans.

Oh, so Texans don't like the outdoors? I didn't say that. I'm just saying we all haven't been fishing. I've done other things that are a part of the outdoors. I've just never been fishing. Like what? Going on a hike? Like you hike?

I've actually been hunting. Oh, what have you? Oh, okay. So you like to slaughter innocent animals? Like what? I didn't shoot. I said I went. I did not shoot.

I said I went. What did you hunt? When you hunted, would you? But I didn't. Deer, but I didn't shoot. Yeah. Dear, dear. Listen, I, I'm actually going to lead a bass fishing rebellion here in Hollywood because bass fishing

is the most relaxing thing that you can do. After it was over, we threw the fish back, the whole nine. What? Yeah. I call like a five-pound bass. I call like a five-pounder or a four-pounder, a two-pounder, but we threw the fish back. It's not even about harvesting the fish.

They call that harvesting the fish. It's not about harvesting them. I don't like that. Why? Are you also the type of person that doesn't kill bugs? No, I kill bugs. I grew up hunting and fishing, but in this case, I'm not about to take these fish

from Santa Barbara all the way back to L.A. And then spend my Saturday night cleaning fish. I'm not doing it. So it was more of like a convenience thing. It wasn't because you were just like, I don't want to keep this fish. I want to give it back to its environment. It wasn't like that. Well, I mean, it's funny.

Steve, the guy who I was, my bass fishing guy, Steve, he says that he has never tasted a bass before. This sounds like a man you can't trust. I'm just going to be honest. He says he's never before tasted a bass. He says he's been bass fishing on. that lake for a very, very long time. But he doesn't like fish.

He doesn't eat fish. He was a professional angler. He was angler of the year two times. Angler of the year two times, Steve was. I went with Rick Taubber fishing, but Steve was my guy. He was angler of the year two times. Never takes her the bass. Throws all the bass back.

I mean, I don't even know what to say. I don't even know what to say. I guess, you know what, I do know what to say. I'm glad you had a really good time. I'm glad it was what you needed this weekend. maybe next time I'm in Santa Barbara, I'll look for Steve. No, we'll all go bass fishing together. We'll get a big pontoon boat.

We'll all go bass fishing together. I'm telling you, it's so amazing. And I'm taking mine back. I just, for the record, I'm going to take mine with me. Okay, well, you know, Rachel, Big Rach, the fish killer. I mean, I don't see why you got to let the fish go, but whatever. So, listen, I'm recharged. I am feeling just very hopeful.

Do you feel hopeful? I feel hopeful for some, I feel, I don't know, I'm a religious man, it's the spirit of God, it's the spirit of discernment. I feel like we're in the middle of something and I am thankful to be here and kind of be talking about it. Do you feel the same way? I will agree with you, yes, and I'm very cynical, but I feel hopeful because if you would have asked me at the start of this, would we still be protesting? Would changes be made? Every other day, it seems like something is happening. The protests are being affected.

effective. They are making change or at least putting the pressure on government and organizations and businesses to make change. Never in the, well, I know we're going to get into this, but I would have never thought we would hear from organizations like the National Football League. Oh, well, let's get into it right now. You like that segue? That's called Segway, Big Rache, the Segway Master right there. Yeah. So the National Football League through the tip of its proverbial spear, Roger Goodell. Roger Goodell himself released what I would call an impassioned sort of statement

talking about the league's past failures in dealing with social change the current moment that we're in and how the NFL wants to be better. I would say that it was impassioned and not because he was saying it with passion but because the words seem to be to want to strike a deep emotional chord in people. Now, this is in response to John

Gigantic NFL stars like Sequin Barclay, like Patrick Mahomes, making a video where they sort of seem to me to separate themselves from the league's response to the up the uprisings and the unrest that we've seen. They seem to want to make their own statement and separate them from what the league was doing. The league then saw that and thought we have to be a little bit more proactive in the way we're addressing this. did you think about what Commissioner Goodell had to say? I was shocked that he made a statement. It felt like it was passionate. He did seem to reuse the same words that were used in the video that the football players made, the professional athletes made.

There were certain things that bothered me about his video. First, he never said Colin Kaepernick's name. I think that that means something. nor did he actually address kneeling, nor did he mention the flag. And it was a great statement. It was definitely progress from what we've seen before, especially coming from the top. I will note that the owners have been silent, which I think speaks volumes. You've heard from players, now the commissioner.

You've heard from some GMs and some coaches, but not from the owners. I feel like it was a step in the right direction, but so much more needs to be done. I think he definitely shocked everybody by doing it, but I'm not sold on it. Passion is not the word that I would use from that statement that we got from Roger Goodell. So I think I might have been misunderstood. I'll tell you what the statement meant to me.

Do you know the number one? Yes. What number comes before one? Nothing. Right. Nothing. That's what the statement meant to me. Like...

Okay. Okay. Right. Right. Right. Zero is technically not a number. Okay. But it meant absolutely zero.

The NFL as an organization is as complicit as any organization in America in the unrest that we, in the unrest that we've just seen. The NFL had a man who recognized these problems happening in society and said, I am going to make peaceful protest the way that I deal with these. things. Let me do something that's public and grand and takes advantage of the platform that I have in order to spark a discussion about social change. That is the most polite way to ask for your life that you possibly can. You can't ask for your life in a more polite way than Colin Kaepernick did. Now, he did it in a way that was challenging to some of the ideals and some of the, I guess,

the tenets and the freedoms that America life is being. based on, but that's what you're supposed to do. America citizenry is advanced. We're advanced citizens. And striving to protect that is not always comfortable. Not only did the NFL reject his method of conversation, they punished him for it. They punished him for it. They took his livelihood for him.

What they did was intellectually and financially lynched Colin Kaepernick. So until the league is as intentional about writing that wrong, a really. wrong that happened to a real black person, because remember, we're not talking about fake wrongs that happen to imaginary black people. We're talking about actual death and actual loss. So until they rectified that real wrong that happened to a real black man, I don't see how we can take anything that they say seriously. Okay. So I guess I misunderstood you that. I agree with everything that you said. You said he had passion when he spoke. I said it was, I said it was an impassioned plea. I said he made an impassioned plea. I said he made an impassioned plea.

I didn't say that I believed it because I don't. Because to me, that's the way I know. Right. It didn't say that I believe it because I don't. To me, what matters when someone says I'm going to stop hurting you, what actually matters is that they stop hurting you. Right, right. And so that's the thing that I don't think they've ever done with Kaepernick.

And it's the message that Cap actually was trying to get out there was actually in a lot of, it was bigger than him. but still they chose to take that huge issue and make it about Colin and make it about taking from him. And they got to make that right for me. Well, I think it speaks volumes to add on to what you're saying. I think it speaks volumes at the fact that they say that they were wrong and they basically admit they've been on the wrong side of this. Yet they never mentioned Kaepernick's name. It's like who's, you're on the wrong side of what?

Why was this even an issue for you? Because of what Colin Kaepernick started. How do you talk all around it, dance around, but never mentioned the guy's name who started this movement in the National Football League. And I will add to this that the NFL has even more to do because let's not forget in 2018, the owners tried to implement that restrictive policy that if you want to protest, you have to stay in the locker room. If you come on the field, you have to stand up.

Now, that never went through. They backed off of it pretty quickly, yeah. Yes, but that is what the National Football League tried to do. So I hear you. It's a step in the right direction, but there's so much more to be done. And I think that that's what Donald Trump was trying to do when he called him out in his response with his tweet into what Roger Goodell said. So, yeah, I mean, obviously President Trump has a platform that it requires him to make sure that everyone thinks that he's law and order and about preserving the integrity of the flag at all time. That's his thing.

That's kind of what his base rallies behind. I think the important thing to remember about the NFL and a lot of the corporations that have sort of made their opinions about the current time that we're in evident since things have been going on is that these are all corporations where the bottom line is money. It's financial gain, right? And so these corporations are going to do things based upon the, which way the wind blows in society. So if they gauge in society that everyone that it's safe to come out and say that Black Lives Matter or that we're going to reform police departments

and really look at American policing in a very critical way, if they feel like it's safe to do that, then they'll do that when it's safe to do so. The question out of an ally or out of anyone that you want to believe is who was there for you when it was unsafe to do it? who put it on the line for you when there was something to put on the line. Let's not say that you retroactively go back and kick everybody in the teeth that wasn't down from day one. But it is saying that there's water to be carried by certain organizations that haven't been there.

And they got to carry their water. And there's action that goes along with those words. And we'll see whether or not the NFL is serious. By the way, they carry themselves in the next coming months. Okay, I have a question based on what you said Because this is something I've been thinking about since In this whole movement and with the NFL making its response When Colin Kaepernick took a knee,

There were very few who protested with him And by that I mean professional athletes Very few who joined the movement At first. After a while, it's spread like wildfire I'm sorry, when everybody was doing it You mean when everybody was doing it together like when Jerry Jones took a knee and they went at the camera?

No, no, not when, because that, when Jerry Jones took a knee, that was actually in response, directly in response to President Trump. Right. But even prior to that, not just in the NFL, there were athletes all over and sports all over that had taken a knee. And in the NFL, you had seen several guys come out and take a knee even before that. Yes, there were people that were taking a knee, but not for what I feel like we could see in the upcoming season. And I'm particularly talking about Adrian Peterson's comments who said,

everybody's going to be taken in the after this. And I guess my question to you that I was going to ask is these people weren't necessarily big names, big stars weren't down from the beginning. More than not, more athletes than not were not helping with the movement. We're not supporting the movement. We're not protesting in an hour. Maybe they were behind the scenes, but they weren't taking a knee or raising their fist. So how do you feel about that? How do you feel about people now saying You know, in spite of what everything that's going on, it's almost safe to be, not almost, it is safe to be on the right side of this by protesting and taking a knee.

How do you feel about athletes like Adrian Peterson who are like, oh, now we're all doing it when you weren't down four years ago? Well, I think a couple of things. Number one, for me, anybody that doesn't have, first of all, there might have been some athletes that didn't agree with taking a knee. Okay. So let's parse this through. There might have been some athletes that,

that wasn't their preferred form of protests. And I'm okay with that. I'm okay with people that say, that's not the way that I move. That's not the way that I do it. That's fine. If you don't agree, I mean,

if you don't agree with the elimination of police brutality and systemic racism, now we have a problem. But if you don't agree that taking the knee is the way to achieve that, I don't have any issue with that. I'm not offended by that.

I had never thought to take a knee during the national anthem. It hadn't occurred to me. Once it was done, I felt invigorated by it and I felt inspired by it. But if someone else shows protests or if someone else wants to work on the problem in a different way, I don't begrudge them that. So that's the one thing I would say to athletes who didn't join him.

I would say that people that bristled at it and made it about the action rather than about the conversation, they were actually doing work to harm what I believe. was the healing that America needs to have. I think people that said, hey, I feel so upset and disrespected by you not giving an inanimate object, it's proper respect that I won't talk to you about your people dying in the streets.

There's a disconnect there that I have a problem, I have a problem reconciling. So anyone that said, hey, I don't want to take a need for whatever, ever reason. I don't even think that Cap had a problem with that. What he had a problem with was the league silencing him. There are plenty of people that when Cap took a knee, like, they put their hand on your shoulder. They show that they're with you while still respecting something that they feel like it's beyond them or bigger than them to respect. I have no problem with people who have

that view of the American flag. I disagree with them, but that's what this country is about. But if I'm telling you that people that look like me are dying, and this is my way to get the world's attention on that issue, and you can't put your thing to the side for a second just to engage me in that conversation, that I can't understand. And that's what the NFL did. That's what the owners did.

And that's kind of, in a lot of ways, what a large section of America did to him. And I hope that that conversation is had in a different way. now that everyone seems to be a part of it. They woke up. Everybody woke up in 2020. Do you think that Kaepernick has to be in the league to make this right? Do you think they have to take him back into the league, put him on a team for all of this to come full circle?

Yes. And the reason is because, number one, let's putting, like Colin Kaepernick being an NFL football player is not going to save the world. Colin Kaepernick being an NFL football player is not going to end police brutality or racial. It has nothing to do with it, right? It has nothing to do with it. But what it does say is that we can at least challenge these systems in America and have dialogue with them without being sent to our rooms by corporations. And that's it. You know, that's not the conversation that was supposed to be started, but it's the conversation that we're having now because of the way that they react.

And we can also have conversations fullheartedly, excuse me, openheartedly about what the American flag means to people and why that offends people. I'm willing to have that conversation too, but I can't be willing to talk to you about that. And you're not willing to talk to me about the guy around the corner for me that got his head blown off by the police. Like, I don't understand that. So I know. I think that that's what's so powerful about when you hear Kaepernick talk about his story with neighbor. Boyer from sitting on the bench to actually taking a knee when he talked to a veteran. And a veteran is the one who encouraged him to it. I think understanding how he went from the bench to taking a knee makes a lot of sense.

And it was having an open heart and an open dialogue about the whole issue. I agree with you. I think that Kaepernick needs to come back into the league for them to make this right. The only thing I wonder is can he set aside his inherent mistrust and rightfully so of the league for how they've done him with this. even with the trial. Like, can't he make it work? I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I know Cap and Nessa,

and I know that he wants to be playing football. Remember, being a professional athlete is unique in one specific way. Most of us, we go to college. We go to high school, middle school, then we go to college. We choose a profession. A lot of us have that profession in mind when we go to college. being a professional athlete is unique in that a lot of these guys start doing this when they're nine or 10 years old. It's not any more meaningful than any other American professional as a profession.

As a matter of fact, oftentimes it's less meaningful in terms of how people are affected. No lives really get saved. I mean, sports is very important to us, but they're not doing neurosurgery and anything like that. But it's still their life's work. it's something that you work for, you start working for it on a playground when you're a kid, a baby, basically. And then imagine coming through all of that

and getting to a place that less than 1% of the people that are doing what you are doing get to. Imagine what that must feel like and how that must define you. Even if you're an athlete and you don't leave a league because of an unfair reason, giving up that part of your identity

is hard for all of those guys, right? Sure. And we're not crying any tears from them. they make tens of millions of dollars, a lot of them. Some of them don't. Most of them don't, but a lot of them do. But to have that taken away from you after you've reached the pinnacle of it, because you want to help your people, guys, it's just wrong.

No. Well said. A hundred percent agree with you. Question for you. Who is the most annoying person in the world to Big Rache? What? Big Rache, Rachel Lindsay, who is the most annoying person in the world? Right now in this moment, I got two.

Okay, give them to me. You're going to hate one of the names that I say. I'm with it. I'm going to go with Candace Owens. Oh, wow, Big Rache. Whoa. Whoa. Okay.

Big Rachel, Big Rachel. You ask the question. I'm not saying she's not. I'm just saying what I like about you and the reason why you got this name, Big Rache, is because, you know, you come at Azalea Banks. You come at the real shit talkers. Talk your shit, Big Rache. Get it off your chest.

Why is Candace Owens so annoying to you? First of all, I love that you have embraced this name Big Rach, okay? Because that is what they call me. That's what they call me. You know, I don't want to get into Candace because this podcast is about the culture and she is honestly not part of it. And I don't really want to address too much of it because it's hard to reason with someone

who's talking outside of their neck. But what I think bothers me the most about Candace is I have, there's being so much done with the movement and progression and really getting people to unlearn what society or maybe their parent, maybe it's generational, has taught them. And I am tired of people sending me videos asking me to explain. explain what she is doing. What she, and I simply said it before. I've already said it on my social media,

but I was just like, what you just have to understand is, this is a person who is a mouthpiece for the conservative party to criticize the very race that she is, period. That's all it is. There is no logic or reason behind it, period. That's who she is. And it's getting on my nerves

because I'm tired of people bringing up that video to me. Right. You're sick of people bringing up the video to you. Listen, this is all say like, so left, right, middle, whatever. There are people on both sides of this. Having an opinion in America, we're two very opinionated people. It's a very lucrative endeavor, right? Being incendiary in America is a very lucrative endeavor, especially if you're good at it,

especially if you know how to do it, you can make a lot of money doing it. There are people on both sides of this thing, on the left and on the right, that aren't particularly interested in finding solutions to problems. Exactly. What they're interested in is saying enough things to rile people up in order for people to pay attention to them. I have no issue with that as far as that's concerned. I am the biggest free speech advocate that you will ever hear. I'm not for taking anybody off any shows or having anyone muzzled or anything like that. But what I'm saying is when we're having a conversation about actual solutions, there are people that you actually go to those, to talk to on the other side of the aisle from you.

There are people that are actually would give you enormous insight that are conservatives. They just have a different, like enormous insight. That the word conservative should not be demonized in any way. It's a different way of viewing fiscal and a lot of times social areas of American life. But then there are people on both sides. And I say on both sides because it's really true. I'm not both sides in the argument. but there are people on the left on the right

that just want to shout so enough people hear them so they buy stuff from them. I don't have any at all patience for that and it'll never be addressed by me. I get it. I get it.

But you ask me the question. I feel you. That was honest. Who's the other person? Donald Trump. Oh, Donald Trump. Yeah, see. Whatever.

Whatever. I'll tell you who it is for me. I'm very curious. It's easy. Who? Before I say this. It's very important to know that the higher learning podcast is not about calling people out. If anything, what we aim to do is call people in.

We're not calling people out. Okay, we want to call people in for a discussion. But I would not be an honest brother if I did not say that the most annoying person in the world, maybe three or four years running, is Terry Cruz. I mean, not disagreeing with you. Please continue. Terry Cruz is by far, it's not even close

that he is the most annoying guy in the world. I'm sure that Terry Cruz is a good brother. I'm sure that Terry Cruz means well and everything. But let's get into what Terry Cruz actually tweeted. At this particular time.

This time. And we'll go back. Let's explain to people what Terry Cruz actually tweeted. Terry Cruz said this. Defeating white supremacy without white people creates black supremacy. Equality is the truth.

Like it or not, we are all in this together. Your first thought when you hear that statement. I'm sorry, what? That's literally what I thought. I'm sorry, what? I think you... Okay. In Terry's, and I'm going to let you keep going.

In Terry's, and I'm not defending. him. I really think he thought he was saying something that was so profound and that would generate conversation and that would be trending. The problem is, is that you said it so badly that it started trending in the wrong direction. Like, he needs a proof reader when it comes to these type of tweets, but please continue because he is the person that you have deemed. Tell me, well, tell me what you think Terry Cruz was trying to say, because this is an important conversation. What do you think he was trying to say. I think he was just trying to say, and I'm really reaching here, I think he was just trying to say that we need to work together to fight the problem. That's what I would like to think he really

meant to say. We all need to come together to fight this. It doesn't need to be more, more whites or more blacks. We all just need to fight against injustices so that we can all be equal. That's what I would like. to think that Terry Cruz meant. You don't think that's what he was trying to say? I don't know. So this is my

problem with it. First of all, ain't nobody fucking talking about defeating anything without anybody. I said before that there are kids on the street of

all colors, creeds, and ethnic backgrounds that are marching. Okay? I said personally for me, that's good to see. It's not necessarily something that I feel like is, I think it's on the black community to rise up and make enough. I think it's on us. Our fight for freedom is on us. I think we have to be intentional, organized, and mobilize to get our own freedom

and our equality out of America. But there's not one person that would turn down any help from anyone. Very famous thing happened to Malcolm X when Malcolm X was, he was speaking at a college and a girl asked him whether or not what she could do as a white woman to help black people because she was upset

about the treatment of African Americans in this country. She asked Malcolm X what she could do to help but Malcolm X said nothing, okay? Malcolm X said later on in his life, very Malcolm X answered. Malcolm X said, right, right. That's why I'm laughing. He said later on in his life that he regretted that.

He regretted saying that, right? I think anyone would say, hey, if you want to be a part of this, if we want to heal this as a society, come on in. Okay. Nobody is talking about that. the second part of it is what the hell are you talking about with black supremacy

I know Terry my man my strong brother are your brains in your pecks or your abs like what are you what are you like what why why Terry he thought he thought he was coining a

new I'm telling you he thought the same way you talked about when I said you can't pour out of an empty cup, that's the reaction he thought he was going to get when he tweeted that. Oh, yeah, black supremacy. Oh, yeah. You know, this whole like, yeah, we don't

want that. We all want to be equal. And I'm telling you that's what his thinking was. It has to be. It has to be. I'm trying to give this man the benefit of the doubt. The problem with it is when you say something like that, there are already a group of people in America that go, hey,

just don't want to let you know the black want to take over society. This isn't about equality. This is about the blacks want to take over society. They're going to replace the Lincoln Memorial with a statue of Don Cornelius. Like they're going to do all of these different things. They're going to take the White House, right?

And they're going to add a big water slide in the background and they're going to put barbecue grills everywhere. And before you know it, Nuck if you buck is going to be the national anthem. And like they're, they, they, they, they, right? You know what I mean? And they look at this as not a fight for equality, but some sort of societal and economic takeover, right? They have a fear that that's what people want.

No one is asking for that from America. People are asking for the guaranteed rights that come along with being a naturalized citizen in this country or a citizen who has achieved citizenship. in some other way. The only thing the only thing anyone is asking for

is what they are supposed to have. That's it. And changing that narrative, Big Rache, is dangerous to even bring that up because no one's asking for that. The key word is the danger in it.

Now, I will agree with you because you asked me my first thought. I said, I'm sorry, what? it let me know that if you really believe this tweet, because I'm trying to help you out with it, but if this is really what you believe, then you don't understand the Black Lives Matter movement because all we're asking for, one, Black Lives Matter, as you've seen the posters, matter is the minimum. We are literally just asking for equality. And it wouldn't, the whole movement, the aim of it

is just for equity, not superiority. There's only 13% of African Americans in this population. We couldn't even really get, have black supremacy if that's what we wanted to do. And my issue, and this is, okay, you're right, we can do anything, but you get what I'm saying. Based on our percentage, you get what I'm saying.

Right. But the thing is, this is the danger point that you were making. I feel like if you're black and you aren't for us, you're going to make a comment like that, then please just shut the hell up. Because all you're doing is allowing others to use your words as that's the black person. He said it and it justifies the inherent racism that they have so they can continue living in an ignorant way and being comfortable in their own world. I just have such a huge problem with you saying things that are anti the movement, but that go towards the people who are against us in this.

That's what really bothers me about what Terry Cruz is doing or like a Candace Owens or somebody like. that. Just please just shut up. Stop giving them a scapegoat to continue being the way that they are. And that's what that did when he said black supremacy because it gives them words to hold on to and use as weapons against us. Oh, they're just doing all of this for their black supremacy. What is that? I mean, yeah. I mean, look, for me, it, well, what he said was like, we don't want black supremacy. And it's like, it's so weird. It's like, hold on now. Don't get too supreme. Like, we don't like, we don't, we don't want black.

No one is, that wasn't the discussion. And then secondly, there's another annoying thing about this. Terry Cruz has called on various different communities to be down with him. Terry Cruz had something very unfortunate happened to him some years ago. I'll tell you why that moment was very important for me when that happened. It's important because I looked at the Me Too movement or sexual abuse as something that, that happened primarily to women, almost exclusively to women,

and that it couldn't affect a man, and it suddenly couldn't affect a man that could bench press, like a Buick, right? And when he showed that vulnerability, I was like, well, actually, part of me was torn because part of me was like, yo, you know, just swipe the hand and be like, yo, get off me. But then it still happens.

It happens, right? I had to fall into his experience. And I'm right there with Terry, right? Right there with him. and a lot of people were, including Gabrielle Union, was right there with Terry Cruz. Gabriel Union then is a black woman who says that she experienced racism,

not just racism, but all kinds of other workplace stifling, not so much harassment, but minimizing when she worked on America's got talent. She painted the picture of a very problematic workplace culture that exists there at AGT. And she got zero support from Terry Cruz.

And it seems as if there's something that's stopping Terry Cruz from fully committing to the needs and the concerns of black people. And we never did him that way. And I just wonder why. Like, what is, is Terry Cruz trying to be off the auction block first? Like, why is he? Like what I'm saying like what's the deal with that? Like why can't you what's the thing man?

I don't think he wants to be. I mean, he has a history of problematic behavior against black people, not stepping up to the plate, not having our backs. And this tweet just falls right in line with it. I mean, you know, it goes back to when people show you who they are, believe them. I don't, we don't have the answers as to why Terry Cruz does this. even and I will note that since the problematic tweet that he sent out about the black supremacy, he has come out with some tweets, but didn't really take back what he said.

He more said he was just trying to say, let's just kind of love one another. Isn't that right? Something about love and the spirit of love. Let's just like, why can't we all get along? Something along those terms. And nobody say, but once you're saying. but once again, ain't nobody say

what, no, getting along. No, I agree with you. My point is that he didn't take it back. Right. Like, I would say that was wrong. Like, look, I would say to Terry Cruz or anybody like that,

just open your eyes and see what's happening. This isn't a movement that's coming. This isn't a movement, this is a movement about what's happening to us, but it's a movement led by a gigantic chunk of American society. and there are all different types of flavors in there, all different colors, all different orientations.

It's as unique as I've ever seen. And it's, it's been a pleasure. I thanked God this morning publicly on social media. And the reason was is because I'm inspired by the amount of people that care about the future of this country. Ain't no supremacy, man. The only supreme I'm talking about is a. Taco Supreme, which I'm telling you, still goes hard. Listen.

Like, what's the last time you've been to Taco Bell? I don't eat a Taco Bell. But we can talk about that later. I don't do. You don't eat a taco Bell. I do not. I don't do a lot of fast food. I'm extremely picky eater.

That's another conversation for another day. But all I would tell Terry Cruz is just, just shut up. Just don't speak out for us. Just don't talk. Just keep doing what you do. You know, tend to your family, tend to your jobs. Don't speak on behalf of black. black people and we're good.

Yeah. Yeah. Whoa, big fella. That's all I'm saying. Whoa, calm down that big fella. Calm down that big fella. So today, apparently, was Kintechoff Day. Capital, Capitol Hill.

Now, listen, we, first of all, we're going to say something here on higher learning. We are humbled and so thankful about the early success of the podcast and about the the sort of, I think it's because of The Bachelor, but I have people mentioning me in Instagram stuff that I never, like, it's a lot of future Cairns that are like shouting me out, but not future Cairns. This is a joke. But like a lot of people's very diverse people who are listening to Higher Learning, man. I'm proud to say there's a lot of different people listen to the podcast. Well, I love it. People are amplifying black voices. I think that our podcast has been the heartbeat of the culture and what's going on. And so people are

tuning in to listen to it because I think it's heavy, but then it's also lighthearted at the same time. So I'm thankful for it. I'm really happy about the success of it. Yeah. And yes, there probably are a lot of bachelor people. A lot of bachelor people. You got to hop on board, but I pissed off a lot of bachelor people this week with my call out again. So you call somebody else. You call somebody else? Are you trying to, what is this? Is this like, what are you doing? Are you trying to get, you trying to get out the bachelor in a circle, huh? You're trying to... Well, I did say that I was leaving the franchise

if they don't make changes, right? Because just be... Whoa. Just honestly, with everything that's happening right now, and this isn't the first time I've called out the bastard. I know you don't know this because you don't pay attention of what happens in bastardation as they call it. But it's not...

I'm not new to this. But the thing is, in light of what's going on in our country, do you not self-reflect and look at what you're affiliated with, what you're associated with, and what can you possibly change within the organizations or whatever it is that you're attached to? What are you a representative of? What are you an extension of?

Well, for me, that's The Bachelor. So I have called for change in diversity ever since I stepped on The Bachelor. Yeah, it was The Bachelor First, then The Bachelorette. I've been very vocal about the lack of diversity. And I'm tired of my request not being acknowledged. So I said, I'm leaving. if I don't see certain changes.

Now, moving forward. Let's delve into this real quick. First of all, I didn't know that you were the Collina Kaepernick of the Bachelor. I didn't know that you should take a knee. I thought that you said that. Collina Kaepernick. Excuse me for a second while I will. Yeah, like take a knee.

No, no. You should, what you really should have done was like during a Bachelor taping is they about to hand out one of the roses or something like that. And you just like take a knee or you have one. I don't know how it works. What did it do? This was actually a thought because I was on in 2017. Wait, wait, what?

I said, if y'all give me a football date, if y'all give me a football date and y'all play the national anthem, I'm taking a knee. You are going to take a knee on The Bachelor. Yeah. Wow. I said that they didn't give me a football date, though. I know. Why did you warn them? It would have been so dope if you'd have just done it.

It would have been edited out. It would have been edited out. Oh, no. I know it wouldn't. I tell you why they would have never edit that out. You know why? Unless you got paperwork with them or something like that, if they edit that out, you come back and you say,

I took a knee on the bachelor and they took it out. That's it. We pick it on the bachelor. We ride on the bachelor after that. But no, that's a, listen, all just aside, that's a very, I mean, I know that that's a huge part of who you are. That's a very brave stance to take that you've decided that, you know, enough is enough and you need to see change.

Well, I think it's embarrassing. And some people are like, oh, why are you just now speaking out? I've been speaking out. I spoke out when there was a brother who should have been the Bachelor last season, and I was extremely vocal about that. And I've threatened this for a while. My thing is, is why am I continuing to be affiliated with this when you are blatantly disregarding some of your audience is requesting

and just probably just ignoring the fact that your audience, isn't receptive to people of color. And as you stated earlier in this podcast, it is a business. And if your audience isn't going to be receptive to it, why are you going to give them something that they don't want? I have a problem with that. And I think it speaks volumes that you've had one lead of color in 40 seasons

in 18 years. And you are pushing that lead away. What was the name of that guy that you wanted to be the bachelor? Mike Johnson. Okay. So I think I know why he didn't get it. Okay. What are you going to say?

I'm serious. I think I know why he didn't get it because I was working at TMZ during this time. And I noticed something that they did to Mike Johnson from The Bachelor. So when they do these Bachelor pictures, right? When they do these Bachelor pictures, because we were doing like,

who was going to be the Bachelor? Who was going to be the Bachelor? Who was it going to be? And we kept talking about it. And they always put these pictures up of the guys who were looking to be The Bachelor that were like the white guys, right? They always put these pictures up and they always look so hot,

like melt vanilla ice cream on their chest, LL, Koojay, 1995, hot, right? They look hot. They put them up there. And then when they put this picture up of Mike Johnson, I never forget this. They put a picture up with him and he was posing at SeaWorld with a dolphin. Why did they use that picture? I know I've seen the picture.

You've seen that picture. And I remember I was hosting the show with Harvey and I'm like, yo, where's the brother's hot shirtless picture? Why you got him with Flipper? Like when everybody else looked like they bought that. They're doing in sync promotional ads. Like they look so hot. They're all dripping with sexy. And you put this brother up here with a dolphin.

They're trying not to give him the show. That's how they play is, Big Rage. Who used that picture? Y'all used that picture. Those are the pictures that were. sit over. That picture is off that man's Instagram. That is y'all.

Y'all is part of the problem. I'm not defending them either because I called them out. Well, I called them out. But I feel like stuff like that is like the undercurrent of Bachelor stuff because you don't show that brother in the real sexy way that he was supposed to look. You got this man looking like. Yeah. Show him with like a shirtless with a gun or something like that. Don't he look like a marine biologist.

Like, you know what? Nothing, by the way, nothing wrong with marine biologists. Several marine biologists. I just love how you brought that together. Have hit me up. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer,

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be the day to wear kente cloth. First of all, if you're listening to the show, like I said before, and you're not familiar with what kentee cloth is, I can give you two definitions of kentai cloth. One is that Kintech cloth is basically African print that is used to show an Afrocentric side of yourself. Growing up, I would see Kintech cloth on kufi hats. I would see Kinti cloth in people's clothing. I went to Southern University, and when you go to Southern University, you see professors in Kintech Kentai Kloff. It is a way to reconnect to the. African heritage of African-American people. As a matter of fact, we have someone here.

Yes. Look, there's Jordan right there. If you're watching us. She graduated the class of what are you class of what? 2016, that is obscene that she's that young. I even know they made people that young. But look, you can see right there in her graduation sash. That's right.

She's got some of the kintech cloth to show Jordan, tell them real quick. Like pop in real quick. I know she'll be on the Zoom, Mike. Tell him what the Kintech Kloff meant to you. It just meant pride. You know, I know that my brother graduated and he had one and I wanted one and it was a sense of pride. Pride and what? Pride of being black.

Pride and being black. There you go. Thank you, Jordan. Kintech Kloff, pride in being black. The more, it's a, just let you guys know, we're going to give you the definition of it right now. It is a Gnane textile made of interwoven cloths. strips of silk and cotton. It originated in Ghana from the home of the Ashanti kingdom.

Shout out to Ashanti. That might be Ashanti. I don't know. Shout out to me. Shout out to me being cut off from my heritage and not really knowing why I'm from. I should be able to say that word. Anyway, so they wore kente cloth, something that we've all seen in the black community. When you saw that, what was your immediate reaction to the kenthe cloth on Capitol Hill?

What in the kinti cloth is going on? on here. That's what I thought. I thought, you know what, a knee, because I don't know if you said this, but they took a knee as well wearing the Kinsey Claw. So my first thought was a knee will suffice. Just, just take a knee. Who passed these out? Whose idea was this? I needed to know the full background story. It was, it was, I'm told that I'm reading CNN in politics right now. This is actually, according to Representative Karen Bass, Karen Bass, the CBC, the CBC actually says that, you know, she's defending the use of the kintay cloth as sort of an act of solidarity. So the kinti cloth actually seems like it did come from members of the congressional black caucus.

I needed a full explanation as to why you couldn't just take a knee and why you also needed to do that. Because I think taking a knee says a strong message. I think the fact that you are working on a new bill to, for police reform. says a lot as well. The Kintet cloth was just a little too much. It was trying just a little too hard for me. And it became more of a joke to me than it took away from the message that you guys were really trying to put out there, which was deep.

And it was something that we needed to hear. And there were big steps that were made in Congress today in trying to put this, move this bill forward, at least with the Democrats. But all I saw was Kente. Yeah. Yeah. So here's the thing. We'll get a little bit more into kind of discussing some of the options that we have for transforming police departments.

Here's the thing about the Kente cloth. I'm in high school and, you know, I'm trying to make a play on defense. Trying to make a play on defense, right? What sport are we playing? I'm playing football here. Okay. A sport where Louisiana dominates Texas. Wow.

Just the fact that you had to say it, no, we know that's not true. Per capita, more players in the NFL than any other state. Deal with the facts. Men lie. Women lie. Numbers don't. But so I don't remember. I'm trying to make a play.

And I'm trying to get to a gap. And coach says, that's not your gap. Don't go there. Like, yeah, but he's not getting there. he doesn't understand this, he looks at me, he says, Van, do your job. Don't worry about his job. Do your job. We're asking you to do one very specific thing for this defense to work.

And that is your job. Everyone do your job. It's not their job to come out in Kente cloth and Kente clothed it on down. Ain't nobody asked for Kwanza to be celebrated on Capitol Hill today. Like, like, nobody, no, that's not, that's not when nobody's asking for that. You're doing too much, homie. Chill, you got too much dip on your chip, Nancy.

Get the bill. But now you got to blame us. The fact that you said the CBC is the one who passed the belt. I blame us. But what I'm saying, even if the CBC passed them out, like, you got to know sometimes when it's like, ooh, ooh, ah, when you got, when you, when it's, no, no, no. No, no.

No, Van. if you are a white person and a black person says, we're going to be wearing these, you can't say no. You can't say no. I think you can. I think you can say to, I think you can say the reality is that

we're going to go out here and give a strong message to the American people. But I don't think that this level of cultural appropriation is appropriate at this time. it sends the wrong message. If you're telling me that they were kente cloth hostages on Capitol Hill today,

I don't think that they was Kinti cloth hostages on Capitol Hill. You can't say no. I don't know, Big Rachel. In this time, and I'm mad that you said the CBC is the one who passed him out. Ignorance was bliss in this moment.

I wanted to know that it was Nancy Pelosi who said, we're all going to wear the kentee cloths and take a knee. You're giving them a kente cloth pass, is what you're saying. Well, the CBC gave them a kente cloth pass. literally, literally.

I mean, to me, I don't know why this wasn't more well thought out. It was very distracting to see the image of it because my first thought was not what they were actually doing. It was like, who gave them those? Have they ever? Because we've seen the CBC wear them before. Yeah, they were

at the state of the union, Trump. And like the CBC, just so let you guys know, I think it was 2018, the CBC wore kente cloth sort of to respond to President Trump's shithole, shithole country's comment. So we've seen this, the Kentee cloth be worn on Capitol Hill before. By the CBC, by Black people. By the CBC, yes.

I think it was powerful enough that they were taking a knee in solidarity. I think it was power enough that they were taking a moment to honor George Floyd. I think it's powerful enough that they are working on this bill. The Kente cloth was just extra. It was too much. I don't ever want to see it again, Van. Not on them. Well, here's the thing.

it calls in a question something that's actually a decent discussion. It's like, you know, I've talked to a lot of my white friends over the past couple of weeks and for people that care about me that are white, it must be difficult for them

to try to have a normal conversation with me right now. Because, you know, my home will call me, I'm like, yo, bro, I can't understand how you intercept the ball over the middle every time on Madden. And he's like, dude, let's lab up. That means let's get on the phone and like,

we'll figure out how to do it and we'll both get in practice mode and stuff like that. And when we're playing Madden, he goes, you know, it's just crazy. It's just, I look at Madden different now. And I'm like, what do you mean you look at Mad and different? He goes, I just, there's so many black bodies on the field. I'm like, come on, bro. God damn it. It's a video game.

Not now. Let's just play the game. It just tells me so much. The black man are just, just, just so much to the country. And I'm like, damn it. Madden, now. Play the game.

Yeah. And so I get that that's a tough place to be because you don't want to ignore it. But remember, no one's asking for anyone to dress like us. Exactly. To know what we're just asking for our rights as Americans. And it's those guys on Capitol Hill's job to ensure those rights to make sure we're getting them. And that's it. You ain't got to wear the Kintech cloth.

You don't. just fix it. It just became a show. It just was a show. It looks, it looks, it looks pandarific. Nothing worse. Nothing is going to look worse right now than pandering. And pandering looks really, really bad in times that are that serious.

Now, to the nuts and bolts of this, what, and that's not specifically what they were doing on Capitol Hill today, but one of the conversations that is being talked about as far as the last. of the moment that we're in right now, right? How are we going to ensure that four years from now, five years from now, ten years from now, 20 years from now that policing in this country is better is how we actually address police forces. There are two different sort of schools of thought there. One is reform, wholesale reform of police departments.

And another one is sort of defunding police departments. What's your take on reform, how it looks, how reform looks, form that you'd like to see against the argument of defunding the police department? Like, first of all, like, what do you think of those? Well, I don't think we should be pitting them against each other, right? Because defunding is taking money away from the police. It's not taking all their money.

But I truly have had to educate myself on all of this. I did not know that the U.S. spends in excess of $115 billion a year on policing. I had no idea. And they get more than public services like education, mental health, and how, did not know that. Eye opening for me. Six billion in New York, three billion in LA.

That's what your cop budgets are. About $2.8 billion here. It's a police budget in New York City of $6 billion. I did not know that. And so obviously, I think that defunding needs to happen, but it can't stop there because the issue is the police system. Reform is what's necessary. And I think that the biggest way to reform things is to obviously create some type of

punishment on paper, civil and criminal that affects police officers so they don't continue to act the way that they are in regards to police brutality. But then I also think that you have to add an independent element to the police force because too often, it's like they're all in the same house. You've got your medical examiners. You've got the coroner. You've got the sheriff or, you know, if it's county, everybody is the DA. They're all working together. to get crime off the streets. So you have to separate that. When you have an issue where somebody in your house is in trouble,

somebody up in your house has done something that's wrong, then you have to bring somebody on the outside who's not biased that can actually give this person the fair treatment that they need or justice can be served. And the problem is that there's no checks and balances when you have the DA who works with the police officers to get, to move their case forward, but then they have to prosecute against them at the same time.

It just doesn't work that way. So I think that there needs to be independent medical examiners, independent coroners. There needs to be an independent prosecutor that's brought in to prosecute these cases so justice is served. The thing is that there's this whole, you know, all lives matter, blue lives matter, all cops aren't bad movement that is against the Black Lives Matter movement. And I think that what you have to say realizes nobody is saying that all police officers are bad. The issue is that the system is bad. And so if you're a part of that system, you're kind of guilty by association, even if you are a good cop and you get lumped into that.

So therefore, there needs to be reform as a whole to fix this. So all that to say, I don't think that you can put the two against each other. I think both need to happen. There needs to be defunding of these police departments, but then there also has to be reform done as well. Yeah, well said, I think that. funding is reform. I'll put it to you like this. First of all, just in terms of the bad Apple, all cops are

all cops are bad, excuse me, all cops aren't bad argument. I'll kind of put you like this. Me and Austin Rivers talked about this. Shout out to Austin Rivers over it uninterrupted. Austin Rivers is a good brother who's figuring these things out. Austin Rivers has, has cops and his family. If you guys don't know who Austin Rivers is, he is a shooting guard for the Houston Rockets. Great guy.

son of Doc Rivers Son of Doc Rivers I love how you connected him to his father when he's made his own name in the league but you know it's like whatever's what you do It's what it is Right um Austin Rivers

He said you know Not all cops are bad I have cops in my family What do we do about How do we Represent to everyone That we're not saying that every single cop Is a killer cop

This is why I told Austin Rivers I said I asked him How many people are on the NBA basketball team He said 13 or 14 people. And I was like, okay, cool. Let's say that one of the people on the basketball team is abusing children. But everyone on the team knows that he's doing that.

And none of the other people on the team step up and address the abuse of the child. How many people on the basketball team are good people? The answer to that question is zero. Zero members of the basketball team are good. if some innocent person is being abused by one of their ranks and they don't do anything to stop it, when, especially in the case of the police, it is their sworn duty to protect innocence. It is their sworn duty to protect American citizens. So, whereas all cops in a given department might not be bad cops, any police officer that knows about a Derek Chauvin,

that knows about guys like that, and is not doing what they can. to root that out of their police department cannot be considered a good cop to me. They can't be considered a guilty cop. Okay. They're not a guilty cop, but they're definitely not a good cop. All right.

So that's the first thing I would say to that. Secondly, when you talk about defunding, you talk about reorganizing police forces in ways that are more effective for communities, right? So if you have a 2.8 billion, dollar police budget in Los Angeles. And police are responding, like you said before, to suicide calls, to things involving families, to all kinds of different situations that they're not really trained to handle.

I think a more effective way of running a society is to divert money into people that can deal with those things and taking that off the plate of police officers. Are you going to affect the amount of cops on? the street, certainly you will. But something else that you can affect is dealing with other problems that exist in societies, all right, that stress police departments and make them have to respond to violence, to poverty, to things of those natures, right? If you invest into communities, some of the money that you were talking about, if you're

invest into different places, some of the money that we're talking about, maybe we eliminate the need to have militarized footwork. soldiers and the cops have become more militarized as time has gone on on the streets to affect penalty and we can start affecting change in society in a different way. And I think that we've looked at that in backwards a little bit. We have cops that come and deal with poverty crimes. I listen to a podcast that described Eric Garner, right? Eric Garner is selling loose cigarettes outside of a store.

The store owners call on Eric Garner. Garner to say, yo, he can't do that. We're selling, he's selling untaxed cigarettes, right, cutting our business off. Well, when the cops come to deal with Eric Garner, they're coming to enforce the law, crack down, stop him. Well, that's a poverty issue that he's out there selling untaxed cigarettes. It's an issue that has to do with how Eric Garner is moving around society. So maybe if we dealt with poverty, if we dealt with poverty, if we dealt with.

with economic opportunity, if we dealt with those problems, we wouldn't need police to go out there to essentially punish people for being poor. And when we're talking about reorganizing society and defunding police departments, we're talking about taking money from police and putting in other places. To what you said earlier, you know, even something like a civilian review board, which I believe that they have in Minneapolis, and they certainly, have in New York. The issue with these civilian review boards that are supposed to be independent entities that deal with policing, the issue with them is that the way some of them work is that

if you have a cop that has a certain amount of complaints, right, and it goes to a civilian review board, they then kick the complaint or the allegation to the chief of police. And then it's still up to the chief of police in a lot of these places. to decide whether or not those cops that the Civilian Review Board has seen such problems with are going to be brought up on charges. So in a sense, you're still relying on the police to police the police. And if there's one thing that we've seen that doesn't work, I'm not saying that you were saying that. I'm just saying if there's one thing that we see that doesn't work, it's that. A 75-year-old man in Buffalo got his skull.

his head lacerated. Lacerated. They lacerated his head. It's on video as egregious as it can be. Cops pushed this man down. An elderly man lacerated his head. Those two cops get suspended. And their colleagues are outside cheering for them.

Guys, come the fuck on, man. What other profession. No, I agree with you. I don't believe in the civilian board. For example, when I used to practice law, I worked for my first law firm that I worked for was we were a private firm, but we worked as city attorneys for municipalities.

And one city we did not work for was the city of Dallas. And if one of their firefighters or their police officers got into trouble and they were sued, they would bring us in as an independent party to represent the city because there's always there's this implicit bias that a city attorney is going to have with the police officers, the firefighters, because they work with them on a daily.

And that is what I think needs to be enacted. And that is the police reform that I'm talking about, about bringing somebody completely independent in. Pretty much what they have done in Minneapolis in this Derek Chauvin case and the three other officers is they brought in the state attorney instead of the district attorney who has to work with these police officers on a daily basis. You have to have checks and balances. you have to separate the two so that there can be justice that is done. Right. Absolutely. Everybody read up on defunding the police. Got it.

There's some people out there that want to abolish police forces. Defunding the police, I think, is a way to not only be punitive to the police forces in terms of holding them accountable for the wrongs that they've committed against citizens, but also a way to build a more equitable functioning society. I think that's, I think we're spending too much, especially, I don't want to be a contract killer. I don't want to pay for somebody to kill me as a taxpayer. So whatever we have to do to make sure you put you like, they're asking black people in a lot of cases to take out contracts on themselves. You're paying taxes to guys that are then blowing your head off.

We got to figure out how we deal with the expanse and the increasing militarized nature of police forces. And if you're a cop and you're dedicated to justice, this will be better for you. Yeah, agreed. I guess the question now becomes, what's your favorite Mark Wahlberg movie? I don't have one. You don't have one. And that is because,

and I don't know if I'm alone on this, but I was yesterday old when I found out that Mark Wahlberg had committed a hate crime against blacks and a Vietnamese man. You didn't know. Never had heard that in my entire life. So I no longer have a favorite Mark Wahlberg movie.

But had you asked me two days ago, I would have told you it was Four Brothers. Wow. What? What a shitty movie? What? Like what? Of all the movies. Wait, wait. Of all the way, wait, wait, wait, hold on.

Of all the movies that Mark Wahlberg has made, like, of the departed. I love Four Brothers. The fighter. How do you not like this, the story that is Four Brothers? and it's got great actors in it. I love, I don't, anytime it's on TV,

I stop what I'm doing and I watch it. All right, listen. To each, to each their own. Hey, man, rest and peace, John Singleton.

That's all I'm saying. Rest and peace, John Singleton. Shout out to Tyrese. Andre 3,000, $3,000. Like, Terrence Howard,

shout out, shout out to, I guess, like, look, Tyrese is my man. He's not going to like that I said that,

but the reality is that of all the movies he made and you're on some four brothers. I'm sorry, what was yours? What was yours so I can judge that? The departed. Oh, I mean, yeah.

Like the departed, Boogie nights. Booking nights. Never seen it. You've never seen book. Man, you know what? Okay, I grew up in a household. Wait, wait, can I just give a disclaimer? Sure.

I grew up in a household where I could not watch movies until I was of age. So I couldn't watch PG-13 until I was 13. I couldn't watch rated art until I was 17. And I was a really good kid, so I actually did that. So I never was into movies because there were so many I couldn't watch. So I put my energy into other things. Right. So I never seen Boogie Nights.

You never saw Boogie Nights. I watched Dolomite with my dad when I was six years old. No bullshit. Wow. Like six years old. My dad, look at the Dolomite. Look at him go. Like my dad.

A little boy, look at Dolomite, boy. I tell you what, that motherfucker, Dolomite, crazy. Watch dolomite with my dad when I was six years old. Look, so in case you guys don't know this. I'm going to talk about the day that I learned that Mark Wahlberg had blinded a Vietnamese man and threw rocks at black children on a bus. And called them the N-word. Called them the N-word.

Of course, that's a prerequisite to throwing rocks at black kids. You don't throw a rock at a black child without also calling him the N-word. That is in the white supremacist rule book. I was at TMZ, and we were doing something about Mark Wahlberg, and he had done something, and I wanted to see how old he was. I was like, yo, how old is Mark Wahlberg at this point? Is he like, where is he at? And I remember I googled him.

And then I went to his Wikipedia page. And there is a separate part of Mark Wahlberg's Wikipedia page that says, hey, crimes. I've learned. And people are going to think that I'm bullshitting. This aired on television. I said, yo, did y'all realize that Mark Wahlberg had been arrested 22 times and, like, he blinded a Vietnamese man, blinded him? and everybody went, yeah, it's terrible. His past is terrible.

I'm like every time and rightfully so, we talk about Chris Brown. Every time we talk about him, somebody brings up the fact that Chris Brown did that horrible thing to Rihanna in 2009. Every time we talk about him. How have we talked about Mark Wahlberg as much as we've discussed him?

And everyone knew, and no one ever brought up the fact that he took an eye from a Vietnamese man. Okay, I would like to add that in my research today, it said that that guy lost his eye into a grenade. Oh, so it wasn't Mark Wahlberg. Mark Wahlberg did do something to him, but I did read that, and we need to fact check this,

but I did read that he lost his eye due to fighting in the war and lost it to a grenade. But it does not take the way the fact that he did chase down kids, calling them the N-word and throwing rocks at them. I'm looking up right now, so it says they hate crimes. And he, of course, in 1986, this is bad. He chased after three black children while yelling, kill the nigger, killed the nigger,

and throwing rocks at them. The next day, Walberg and others followed a group of mostly black fourth graders. The next day. Yeah, the next day. Yeah, the next day, are yelling racial epitence at them and threw more rocks at them and summoned other white males who joined. In 1986, the civil action was filed against him.

He assaulted a middle-aged man, knocked him unconscious with a large wooden stick. He then attacked a second Vietnamese man, punching him in the eye. And he said when police came to the first, the scene of the first assault, he said, I'll tell you now, he told police, I tell you now that's the motherfucker whose head I split open.

All right. He was charged with the temperament. and murder, pleaded guilty to felony assault. Okay, so listen. So listen. Walbert believed that he had blinded the man, so I was wrong about this, but the man said that he had lost his eye in the war. Okay, so he didn't take the eye.

Okay. So I was wrong about that. So here's the point. And I'll ask you this. Okay. All of this got brought up because Mark Wahlberg came out and showed solidarity with black people, posted about Black Lives Matter, posted a very sweet message,

a very nice message. to people. And then people said, shut up, you punch a Vietnamese man in his eye. That's what happened. Shut up. You call Black Kids the N-word back in the day. These things happened when Mark Wahlberg was between the ages of 15

and 21. The last incident that it looks like he had six years? Jeez. The last incident it looks like he had was when he was in 1992 he fractured the jaw of his neighbor,

a man named Robert Crehan, who claims that the whole thing got started because Mark and Mark, excuse me, Mark Wahlberg. He was Mark and Mark at the time. Because Marky Mark called him the N-word. That's the last thing that happened. And we should also mention that in 2006, Mark Wahlberg said that he wanted to meet the man,

the Vietnamese man. And in 2016, he did meet with him and the man released a public statement for giving Mark Wahlbert. So I'll ask you this.

But it should be noted that the black people that he did that to are not okay. So I'll ask you, these things happen when he was a younger man. Do you think it's fair what happened to Mark Wahlberg yesterday? A hundred percent Are you kidding me?

We have every right to bring up what you did. And this is, it's the same thing I say to Terry Cruz. Just be quiet. You can support Black Lives Matter through donations, through volunteering, behind the scenes.

But what we don't need you to do is come out and be and speak out about it publicly. I just, think that you open yourself up to people to attack you and to bring attention to people like me who had no idea that you had this past because I do believe that people can change. And yes, it was a long time ago, but I am side-eyeing the fuck out of Mark Wahlberg, Marky Mark, after you, I learned this yesterday. I don't know how to go about because six years, this is a span of six years, well into

21, you're still an adult. You're still able to make competent decisions. And I just, I'm still trying to process it because I repeat, it was yesterday that I learned this because it was trending on Twitter.

It's an interesting question. It does change things. I mean, we're learning in real time here. It does change things for me a little bit that he does have victims of his racism that are black that haven't yet forgiven him, which tells me that what he did left an indelible mark on them, that they were scarred by it.

Yeah, of course. And I wonder why or how you make something like that right. I also, a part of me wonders for a man now who's in his mid to late 40s, is this a situation? because I argue this about I argue this about people all the time to where can you grow out of that? Is there a point to where there are enough deeds,

enough things that you can do to show people that you've changed and that you're not like you were before? In a case like this, I'm so emotionally close to this. To be honest with you, if anyone's ever hurt black people, especially black children,

it's very hard for me to turn the page on them. It's very hard for me to be like, okay, that's something that you did when you were a kid, you hurt up all these kids and you beat up all of these people and maybe you grew out of it, you learn better and now you do better. I'm a 40-year-old man. Is that fair that I can't let go of it? Am I being fair to someone who over the course of their life has changed and grown from it?

Is that fair? I think it is fair because I think it's just a consequence of the actions. I think you have to always, there will be people that can forgive you, and I think that you have to always accept the fact that there will be people who can't get over that. I mean, I can only imagine how traumatizing that was for those children to be chased in that way and be called out of their name and the worst thing that you could possibly call them. I think for me, what I need to know is your journey to get to where you are now to be able to post about Black Lives Matter. Okay, we see it ended. We ended, it ended when you were 21.

We know obviously you work side by side by several Black actors. I wonder if they know your history. But my question is, what did you do to change your mindset? Because that's huge, right? It's not like you slipped up and set the words singing a song. This is a violent act. You were charged criminally for this. So what did you do to change your mindset about this? I don't know.

I don't have good vibrations. That's all I know. Right. Oh, Jesus. That's so bad. That's so horrible. It's so bad. It took me a second to get on it.

That's so bad, Big Rache. I had to put it in there. I had to. Oh, big rage. No. All right, so you're not willing to accept Mark Wahlberg as an ally. You're not willing to accept as an ally. You're not willing to accept Mark Wahlberg as an ally.

That's what you're saying. I don't know. No, I don't know. I did not say that. I don't know his heart. But I think for me, realize, I just found this out yesterday. You need some time to process. Well, it's like it just.

happened to me yesterday. I remember when I was in college, I found out, I remember I was singing, I had to be sitting on the dock of the bay or something, and I was talking to my dad, and I was like, man, I'd pay anything to go see Otis Redding in concert. And he was like, Rachel, Otis Redding died in the 70s. And I cried so hard because that day, he died to me. He died that day. Rachel, what you're Rachel? What, what?

Yeah, so he died in the 60s, 1967, I believe. But it wasn't until 2006 that I found out that he passed away.

Okay, Rachel, I, like, listen, look, we're going to lose subscribers.

Like, you're like, uh, no, we can't tell that. My boy, you're missing my point. My point.

What are you, what did you, did it, Pock died? You realize Tupac passed away. right? He died. He died. Ninety-six. Yes, I can remember. Wait, crazy enough, this is a full circle moment. I was in line for Taco Bell when I heard it on the radio that Pop died. Just, just, that was probably, and that was probably the last time I ate Taco Bell, but keep going.

No, I'm just saying, just to make sure you know, just, you know, there's some shit that maybe you want to keep to yourself. We don't have to give it to, you know, we'll have to give it to everybody. I got so many stories like that. But my point is that when you just find it out, It's like it just happened to you. So to me, what Mark Wahlberg did just happened yesterday, and I'm still trying to process it. I'm not saying people can't change. I'm just not, it's not settling well with me right now.

Right. And I think it's fair for you to know sort of what went on in his life that led him to change. I think that's an important thing. We talk about people and they've done bad things. Like if you talk about a guy like Michael Vick, right? Michael Vick did the work in public to let people know that he was a different man than a man that put all those dogs to death, right? Right.

And by the way, they made him. He wasn't going to get back to where he was unless he did that. So it wasn't like he was going to just jump back into the league and start running the old pigs, getting around, and they made him. But he definitely did the work to show people that he was different. And I think that's got what people want to say, what people want to see from guys like that. I don't know whether or not he's done it or not. But, I mean, he's definitely going to probably have the onus on him a little bit.

more than in the past to show that. And maybe that's fair. I think actually not maybe that fair. Sure, that's fair. You know? Yeah. And I don't know anybody who's ever had any bad dealings with them over their last X amount of years.

I don't know them. But I do know some people who do. Obviously, I told you I'm cool with Tyrese and, you know, Tyrese knows them pretty well. So we'll see. But it is very important to know that at this particular point, black people want actual real allies and they don't want mouth. and lip service like juvenile says. They don't want that mouth and lip service.

They want real allies. And real allies, they show up for you in a real authentic way. And especially if you got some red on your ledger back in the past, it might take you a little bit more to prove that. Why don't you have a southern Louisiana accent? I just thought about that when you tried to imitate Juvie. Julie?

baby all I want is my lip series don't act bad that's all I'm going to do with you because I don't want your ass you know what I'm saying Hey if you listen to this you don't know what that is man go listen to 400 degrees Top 5 hip hop album of all time

Go listen to you if you talk his shit And so by the way When you listen to 400 degrees it was recorded in 98 Okay So if you if he says some things and your jaw drops, it was a different time.

That's all I'm saying. It doesn't take away from it. It doesn't take away from it. So we're talking about allies. We got an unexpected ally. This is the higher learning, unexpected ally of the week. And this week,

this past week, very unexpected. Mitt Romney. Mitt Romney marched at a protest. and actually uttered the words that one dare not speak. Black Lives Matter from Mitt. Fucking Romney, Rach, what did you think about that? It's a new day for Mitt Romney.

Mitt Romney is standing up against President Trump these days. So I think everything he does is kind of like a F you to President Trump. So we're happy, I'm happy to have him as an ally. Good for you. Scream Black Lives Matters. long as you want to. Yeah. Look.

Uh, yes. Yes. It, it is, uh, I don't know what to fuck to say about it, dog. It's bizarre. Like, it's, yeah. But good.

More allies. Why is it a problem? Why is it a problem? It's not, it's not, but. It's better than, it's better than Mark Wahlberg. It, it, it, it, I guess. But, I mean, if we start, if we start pouring through Mitt Romney's record, we're probably going to find a whole lot of fucked up shit.

You know what I'm not saying? But right now, I'm so about the movement. If you want to get in the streets and march with other people and chant Black Lives Matter and show that you're about it, I'm about it. Yeah, no, I get it. And it actually, it actually warms my heart that he did it to piss off President Trump as well. That actually warms my heart as well.

Yeah, he, it was, it was something new. It was something new. hopefully we can get to a point to where Black Lives Matter is not informed by anything political. You know, that like it's not a statement on the left and it's not a statement on the right. It's a statement that addresses our humanity. Because we do. Because we matter.

Right. Yeah. We matter, which we do. I mean, I don't know how else to say that. Like, I'm a person. God damn it. Like, you know what I mean? Like, what are we fighting for?

I just want to walk to Whole Foods and back. and not get a baton in the spine. Come on. You know, it's cool. It's cool. So what you're saying is right now, you're completely on the Mitt Romney ally of the week train. You're good with that.

This week. Yeah, this week. For sure. For sure. He won me over this week. Do you have any odds right now? So, I mean, I'll ask you that real quick. So Mitt Romney doesn't have to do anything to win you over.

All he has to do is say Black Lives Matter and he wins you over. Don't, shouldn't, we, Mitt Romney's a senator, shouldn't we, shouldn't we wait until Mitt Romney has actually delivered for us in some way to, since he actually has power in that? Shouldn't we wait for a vote or wait for something to, shouldn't Mitt Romney have to prove that Black Lives Matter? Should we demand that from him? Okay.

And here's his perfect opportunity. The Justice and Policing Act of 2020, which is what the Democrats are working on right now in the House and the Senate. Will you vote? Because that's the problem, right? They think that's going to go to the Senate because we, because we Democrats run the House. It's led by the Democrats. Right.

Not in the Senate. That's Republican led. So will he vote in favor of this act? That's a prime example to show that you are all about Black Lives Matter. Yeah. So just real quick. So you guys know what's going on with that. We're going to, I'm going to break down the Justice in Policing Act real quick.

I am not going to go through the entire thing. Mm-hmm. But it is, let me find something. So the Justice and Policing Act in 2020 is kind of what the Kintay-Kloff revolution, what Kwanza. Kwanza in June. Kwanza in June was all about today. It is, it prohibits federal, state, and local law enforcement from racial, religious, and

discriminatory profiling and mandates training on racial religious and discriminating profile for all new law enforcement. It bans chokeholds, uh, karate, Rory holds. That is, you know, around your neck, the car out of artery right there is, you know, the deal there. And no knock warrants. It's very important. Our sister Breonna Taylor lost her life as the police executed in a no knock warrant. We will not rest until we have justice for Brianna Taylor.

Yep. Get ready. We will not rest until we have justice for Brianna Taylor. So a lot of the conversation has been about George Floyd, rightly so. A lot of the conversation has been about Amad Arbery, rightly so. We have not forgotten about Brianna Taylor. Her name is on our hearts is on our brains. So, yes, it bans no knock warrants at the federal level, at the federal level,

and limits the transfer of military grade equipment to state and local law enforcement. It mandates the use of dashboard cameras and body cameras for federal offices and requires state and local law enforcement to use existing federal funds to ensure the use of police body cameras. It is my opinion that if any of any. police officer does not have a functional body camera after interacting with a civilian that is a zero tolerance policy, he should be fired. 100% because we just saw that happen in Louisville, Kentucky, where they turned them off.

Zero tolerance policy on the police and body cameras and on being able to read your badge number. I read a couple of more of these and then you can read them a little bit more about it. This is a national police misconduct registry that's very important to prevent problematic officers who are fired or leave on agency from moving to another jurisdiction without any accountability. That stops recycling bad cops. That means you can't fuck up in Baton Rouge move to L.A. and they become a cop in L.A. when you haven't changed any of your practices. That happens a lot. happens a great deal. Amends federal criminal statutes from willful to recklessness standard.

Amends federal criminal statute from willful to a recklessness standard, excuse me, to successfully identify prosecute police misconduct. That's very important as well because that changes the sort of the barrier of intent. That means that it takes intent out of it and you can just be prosecuted for recklessness as well. Yes. That's a huge thing as well. Reforms qualified immunity so that individuals are not barred from recovering damages when police violate their constitutional rights. Establishes public safety innovation grants for community-based organizations to create local commissions and task forces to help communities to reimagine and develop concrete, just equitable police safety, excuse me, public safety approaches.

So there are a lot of these bullet points. There are a couple more. I'm going to read. Oh, very important. Require state and local law enforcement agencies to report use of force data disaggregated by race, sex, disability, religion, and age. Okay. So a lot of these things would fundamentally change policing and the oversight of policing. There are a couple of more bullet points. I'm not going to weigh you guys down with reading everything word for word, but we wanted to make sure that we didn't at least get into this piece of legislation before we left. Because what the CBC and what a lot of the Democrats,

and I would imagine that it's not going to be just Democrats on Capitol Hill or are trying to do, it's trying to bring in a new day of American policing. And it's going to take some actual nuts and bolts action to get that done. And I think that's a start. Does that go far enough for you? I think it does. I mean, it obviously doesn't address defunding the police, but you're seeing that done on a local level already. I mean, it's already done in Los Angeles.

And so I think that we just let the local, maybe that doesn't have to be addressed because if it is put in this bill, I think that it would not pass. Well, I think defunded police departments is something that's going to have to be done at the state level. I don't think you're going to be able to do that. federally. I think there are too many hurdles to jump over. Yeah. And I think if they did, yeah, if they did, that it would never pass. So I think that what they're proposing, I think it makes sense. And I can't, I mean, I say I can't see it passing in a Senate. Who knows? I mean, they didn't even make the lynching lynching a federal crime. That didn't pass in the Senate. That's another story. But that is also a part of this bill, though. I don't think you mentioned

that in one of the bullet points, but it makes lynching a federal crime, which is, something that the House approved and it stalled in the Senate right now. But that is also a part of this bill. But with all the public pressure and the way that the protests are happening daily and the movement being so strong and there being such collective action in regards to police reform, I just imagine that I would, I guess I'm just hopeful that this is something that could actually pass. And I think that it says a lot that they're trying to push this in respect. response to the public outrage about what is happening in our country in regards to black people and police brutality. Yeah. I mean, look, the reality is there's going to have to be a lot of political power behind

proposed legislation such as this in order to get it to the finish line. And that's going to take the decisions of American citizens as well. So when you vote and there are elections coming up, you are going to see candidates and every candidate has a website, you can go to that website and see everyone who's endorsed that candidate. If a candidate is endorsed by a police union, you shouldn't vote for them.

The reason why you shouldn't vote for them and remember, we just had a primary elections in L.A. in California not too long ago. It's their packets that come out. There are all kinds of things that come out where you can go and look at the list of endorsements that candidates have.

Now, there are a lot of people who base their votes specifically on those endorsements because they don't know a lot of the people who are running locally, right? So they say, hey, if this person has an endorsement from Maxing Waters or if they have an endorsement from the Teachers Foundation or from a specific union, you go, hey, that must be a good person for these people to stand by them and then you cash a ballot for them. In this case, if a candidate's endorsed by a police union, that to me tells me that that candidate is in. bed politically with the political the political arm of police power. And the first thing that we would have to do is encourage, if we want sincere oversight of policing in this country,

the first thing that we would have to do is to drive a wedge between the political apparatus of America and the police. We can't allow police unions, the political power of policing to buy up politicians. We'll never get legislation like this moving forward if the police unions are controlling the candidates that we vote for. If you don't think there's anything wrong with that, do what you feel.

But if you really do think that there's a problem in American policing, you have to divorce the police from the politicians. And then that'll create a system where we can then have oversight in them. And then after that's, after we get to that point, we can come back and discuss policing, discuss what the police need, discuss how we're going to keep our streets safe, discuss potential changes in the gun laws so that maybe the cops aren't outgunned on the streets. Because a lot of people who talk about keeping police safe and say Blue Lives Matter refuse to address the fact that this many high cap weapons float. around on the streets puts a lot of police police's life in danger

but you don't want to fuck with the NRA and talk about Combin sense gun laws. I got a shotgun in my closet. I'm not an anti 2A guy, but what I'm saying is if you want to keep cops safe, maybe look at some other ways that they're putting their lives on the line when they're out there walking beats. That's all I'm going to say.

Well, you know what they say. Guns don't kill people. People do. You know that's what they say. Yeah, by pulling triggers. But look, Once again, I got my first gun when I was seven years old, been having guns my entire life. There's a way to have a conversation about all of this stuff, including the gun laws, where one side is a vilified where the issue remains pure. And that's what we're hoping to do on higher learning. I know that you want to, you want to, you don't make me look bad now.

You want to fact check me on a couple of things. I've seen this. Oh, yeah. There are a couple of things. Well, I'm actually going to fact check both of us. And one of them, if you were listening to our last episode, was a conversation that we had in, about sea lions versus seals. Van and I did know the difference between them.

I'm not quite sure that I still know the difference between the two of them. But it's something with the ears and it's something with the arms, the fins. And when I was looking at the video of sea lions versus seals, I realized that I've never seen a seal in my entire life. You've never seen a seal.

I have been calling sea lion seals. The entire time. Yeah, sea lions are the ones. the ones with the ears on the outside, I believe, and they have fins that are longer, their arms are longer. Somebody hit me up about this. Yeah, no, people were tweeting us about this. All right here it is right here.

This is from Sarah Burgess. And Sarah Burgess is, I'm assuming, some sort of marine biologist because she has a picture of kelp on her Instagram. Her Instagram is, she's got to be some sort of marine biologist. is her Instagram is S Dolphin B. Get to the point. Okay, so it's his name. All right.

Okay, so it is. Seal lines sand upright on the front legs. They can turn their back flippers around to kind of sit back on their haunches. So when they, so they can also walk. They have ear flaps external. Seals have ear holes, uh-huh, but no external flap, like Rachel said. They have a fused backbone, so they slide but can't walk or turn their backflippers around. That's what she says.

So that's from Sarah Burgess S. Dolphin B. What else did you want to fact checks? All right. We had a long conversation about the Amish people supporting the Black Lives Matter movement. It turns out that they were not Amish. They were Mennonites. Mininites. Mininites sounds straight out of the Bible.

Minutites. The reason they used hashtags, as you said, the reason that they knew what was happening in our country is because they actually drive cars and they use technology. So I was wrong about them being Amish. Fair enough. Here's the thing. My question is this then. They weren't Amish. Do the Amish know what's happening right now?

Well, after our episode, I went and watched Witness. I was inspired by it. No lie. I was inspired by it after our episode. It's safe to say that if they still practice or live in the same manner, that they do as they did back then, they have no idea. Okay.

And they don't want to. They don't want to know. It's probably why they do what they do anyways. So this is my, this is my, my charge to all the thought words out there that are listening to higher learning. This is my charge.

We can't continue this while out the Amish knowing. Hashtag the Amish have to know. Like, don't start that. Hey, look, hashtag the Amish. You know what? Not have to. Be concise.

Hashtag the Amish must know. If you live near the Amish, I want you to drive out to Amish people. Bring them like an apple pie or something like that. I think they like pie. They like pie? I'm not going to speak on this. There was no apple pie and witness.

I know, but they like bait goods, right? Because it's like old school. So they probably like, whatever. They make a shmour or something. Like bring, because the Amish are good, decent people. The Amish are good, decent people. We need their help. We need all hands on deck.

So if you are near the Amish, drive over there to the farm and sit down with an Amish person and tell them what's going on. I challenge you, Van, to do that. Find your nearest Amish community. I'm in L.A. Ain't no Amish out here? But the other day you drove to Santa Barbara. I bet you passed an Amish community without you knowing.

So I challenge you, Van, to go out there and find it. I know where they are in Texas. I told you. I told you they have signs up that say watch out for carriage horse and buggy crossing. I'm going to be real with you. If I can find Amish people, I am going to drive out there where they are and let them know what's going on in the world. I'm also going to talk to them about Avatar and Star Wars and BT and like it's a lot of stuff. I mean, I'm going to be there for a long time.

I might take some Amish back with me. You know what I'm saying? I don't think so. You don't know that. After I'm on the phone that I showed them one episode of Insecure, they might be like, yo, what the fuck are we doing over here? Like, we got to come with that. Well, then do the podcast with them as well.

At the Amish. Okay. There you go. We out of here. Big Rach, anything you want to drop on people before we leave. No, I'm good. You know, I'm going to go rest after this. I gave my all these two hours.

Like, look, Rachel is not feeling well. I'm not okay. Okay. we're just going to leave that at that. So we appreciate you Thought Wars for being with us today. Keep thinking, keep dreaming, and never stop this momentum. We are in a great time in America. We're going to be here to cover every bit of it for you.

We'll see you later on this week. Peace. Bye.