Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Arresting Donald Trump and the NFL’s History of Blackballing

Episode Date: March 21, 2023

Van and Rachel discuss the reaction to ‘Swarm’ and the sex scene that had Twitter abuzz (22:10) before digging into the potential presidential arrest (33:31). Plus, Ringer podcast manager and host of ‘Blackballed’ Chelsea Stark-Jones joins to discuss the new podcast and the NFL’s history with race (59:44). Then an investigation sheds light on the cowardice of police during the Uvalde school shooting (1:14:27). Hosts: Van Lathan Jr. and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Chelsea Stark-Jones Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Harle is on is Ivy Lid Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. Real love. Real love. You don't have real love sitting out of here, though. I know.

I don't, I'm bad at self-promoting. I got to be honest with you. I'm really bad at that. It's hard. It's hard for me to have people celebrate me or to take compliments or stuff like that. But I know. I need the real love book.

If you haven't gotten it already, go get it. You can get it wherever books are sold. It's really fun. Tells the other side of it. the story. I promoted it here. You know, just go get it. Go get it. Tell somebody else together. I feel like we got to get rid of. You can still

buy, miss me with that. Y'all, he just threw my book down. You heard the time. We got to promote real love. It's all the time. I'm just joke. Get mess me with that. Get fat, crazy, tired, wherever books are sold. I'm not going on Zimpic. No, it got to you.

Well, so here's the thing. How have we not talked about this? I'm losing weight, right? Which is great. The natural way, not the ozimic way. I grabbed the rim today. Grabbed it. July 4.

Man, let me tell you something. I jumped up and I grabbed the rim. This is important. This is big. For like for this, you know, for an ex-dunker. I'm 290 pounds. Alleged. So for, I can show you videos.

I'm 290 pounds. So to jump up and grab the rim at 290, I don't get, I don't get, You know what I'm impressed. But I tell you something, I think I hurt my knee. The landing was a motherfucker. You want to see a, see here's the thing that people understand. You want to see people, I want to talk about something real quick.

I just want to let people notice. There have been three different times at the gym that people have said stuff, and I wonder why it's okay to say the stuff that they say. To you? Yeah. And they're trying to be nice. Oh, okay. So I don't know if I told this story yet.

I'm on the court and I'm playing, but I'm keeping warm in between the games, right? And I got my headphones on. And the team is coming down while I'm shooting on the other basket. And I didn't hear them. And a lady that shoots all the time, she goes, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.

And I skip out of the way. And she goes, oh, my God, look how you moved. I'm like, oh, what? You're so big. And I'm like, is that okay? You know? She didn't mean it that way. I was working out.

It was working out. It was funny, Joelle, the trainer. Shout out to Jol. I actually, I brought this up. So we're working out. We're squatting. And one of the other trainers while buying says, get it, big man.

And I was, you know, it's funny about that. Like, that's the only time that that's acceptable. Like, the only time it's acceptable, socially acceptable, to, like, comment on somebody is when they're bigger like that. Like, if I walk, by him and I was like, hey, Shorty, pump that weight. You know what I'm saying? Hey, skinny.

Get it. Or if it was like race? Little man. What's the little man? If you call a short man little man. No, not a short man. I'm just saying like a skinny. Like a skinnier guy.

You can't do that. What are you talking about? You can't. That's not appropriate. Like, what if it was by race? People say short king. What if I just walked by him and it was like, hey man

kill it Mexican you know what you know what I'm saying is and I was it's not I don't feel away about it I'm just like oh it's interesting just look at me and hey big guy

I don't think he means it in the pejorative way no people say big guy big man look at the big man go you know people say stuff like that and it's not negative so I ran and I grabbed it and then I got thrown off balance

because fat took me full And I was trying to go up, but the fat had a mind of its own and said, you're going forward. And I was like, I want to go up and touch the rim. And the fat was like, no, you're going this way. So I landed back on my right leg, knee hurts. And everybody and everyone was, God damn. Look at the big fellas. I got like five or ten.

Look at the big fellas. I didn't ask them about the big shit. But did that really bother you? It doesn't bother me. I'm getting to the point to where I'm getting incredulous just by. the fucking unfairness the,

it's just the fact that it's not a thing kind of, it doesn't bother me at all, but I'm like, why can you say big man? I guess, well, I don't think big man

is a negative thing to say. I think fat is negative. I don't think big is negative. What if somebody was like, they walked past you and they was like, they saw you lifting, deadlifting and then you deadlifted something really heavy and they went,

okay, forehead. I think you were going to come there. I could see you conjuring. I thought you were going to say big head. We're okay for head. That's not right. People do say that to me. They don't just, without knowing you just judge you because of the whole war thing from.

Not war. I mean, I know you're feeling a certain way about yourself. I'm trying to bring you down to my level. But don't you come at me, it's totally different. I don't know. I don't know why being. guy big is different than like I said fat or you know a different word like that but it's also impressive like you you said you weigh a certain amount and you were able to lift up and go to the

rim that's impressive you were even impressed with it we're way ahead of july 4th oh i did that that that i got a long way to go you still a long way to go oh nigger so we got we got four months basically yeah you can do it yeah we got four months i got a long way to go i need to at least lose at least 35 pounds. You could do that. I think if I get to, because at 260, I was dunked pretty easy. So I need to get to at least 265 to give myself a shot. And that's where the OZMPIC is coming in.

Now what, no, OZMPIC's been out there in pop culture for a while. Now, what made you finally say, I think I want to do OZNP? Maybe I saw. You know people? I saw a nigger that was on that OZMP. But here's what they say about OZMP. It looks great. Here's what they say about Ozenpe.

When you stop, you gain like twice the way back. Well, that would never happen to me. Why do you say that? I have no reason. I just said that. It's just not healthy. And there are better options than Osamaic. Apparently, like Mungaro.

Mujaro is what I'm talking about. Not Harold. What's wrong with you? When niggas do heroin, it don't come back. Mungaro. Think about Kate Moss. Take that out. No.

Believe it. Mujaro. Mungaro. Yeah, is what I talked. That's why I called today. I don't know. I'm just going to look at. I'm just going to look at the overall.

I mean, I know several people. That was on that Mujaro. Ozympic Mungaro. Just going to make sure you don't get Ozambic face. What is that? It's like you lose the weight too fast. So it's like the face goes down like this. And the neck is like this.

You can see it in people. Who has Ozambic face? Call them out. Let's just say it was. Let's just say it was. Alive and well at the Oscars on the carpet. Oh, yeah. People were talking about that.

Everybody on that, OZ. OZ. OZ. Oh, what did you do this weekend? Oh, Zimpec. Oh, Zimpick. You know. I had a lot of time with the girls this weekend. Okay.

I saw you hanging out with Nina Parker. Shout out Nina. Nina. So much fun. Nina playing a black girls brunch. And we had ourselves a time. Pancakes? I didn't have.

pancakes. Okay. I had a great, we had a great, we had a great pastry thing. It was like cookie, cupcakes, coffee cake,

churros, croasants, cinnamon rolls. It was so good. God damn, that's making my Olympic twitch. It was.

God damn, I wish I had. When you're on Ozempic, you're not like that. So, oh, so I'm not even going to want it.

Mm-mm. So it was good. Y'all have fun? It was so much fun. It was me, Fran, Sylvia, Kelly.

Nina. It was Sunday. Sylvia Kelly, Nina. Omarosa? Didn't fit in the group. Would you hang out with Omarosa? No.

We wouldn't hang out with you? I would be curious as to why she would want to hang out with me. Omarosa calls you up right now. And she's like, I would go for a coffee and I would peak my interest. I was like, what you want to talk about? That's a dynamic duo. No, it's, why?

Because we're so like-minded? No, I'm not saying you guys are like-minded. that I'm saying it's like she is a very, she's a powerhouse of a woman, Omarosa. I would just be curious to why she would even want her to coffee. Anyways, I went for a hike.

Okay, where'd you go? The one in Brentwood, Mandeville, Westridge? Never. Oh, it's a good one. It's nice.

Yeah, there's about five miles. And I know that's nothing for you because you walk like that. Oh, I'm not saying that. I'm saying you height five miles. Was there any, it's kind of flat. There's like a couple of hills.

Traces of. Please don't rule it. You've already, I used to hike so much more until you were mountain lion. Well, I mean, here's the thing. Our boy passed away. Shout out to him. I still think about it. And then you do.

P-22. Then he passed away. There's eventually going to be, because right now you can hike freely, right? Because there's no sheriff in town. But there's eventually going to be a new sheriff. I can't. P-25. P-29.

P-31. You know what I mean? P-40. There were no size. No siding. No sightings. Okay. And this is like in the open.

No, I had a friend. So what the fuck is the friend? I'm just saying I wasn't by myself. So was a friend a male or female? Female. That's a two piece special for the mouth one. Oh, because females can't take care of themselves? Nigger, it wouldn't matter if it was fucking Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Well, you asked me if it was a man or what would you have said if it was a man? Because if it was a man, I already know that you would sacrifice him to the mountain. So it wouldn't even matter. But this woman, that's the two-piece spicy, two-piece extra crispy. She was black. She was white. So got dark-a-white meat. Oh, dark-and-white.

Oh, what else did I do? Oh, and then I went to brunch with one of my girlfriends, San Monica. So it was like girls' time. Catching up with the girls. It was good. We had black girls brunch. Then we just kept the party going to Soho House. And they have trivia.

And we weren't expecting that. Interesting. And the game was totally against us. How? It was not for black folks. Just the question The answer. White trivia.

Give me an example of something that they asked. Um, where was the first? No, what was the name? What was the name of Tarzan's? Was it the monkey? The chimpanzee.

What was the name of Tarzan's chimpanzee? Yeah. What is the element for gold? Like these were, these were, these were some of the, I was like, this isn't any fun. Tarzan's chimpanzee. What's his name? What's his name?

Nigger? wouldn't that be funny? If that was his name? And we were the only black table. They probably asked that question just when y'all walked in. Our team name was Angela Bassett did the thing. It was when y'all walked in,

they were probably like, hey, hey, Assetar's a question now. We've got some. That's to see what they say. That's how they fuck over people. It's Cheetah. Cheetah, I knew that. I really knew that.

I just couldn't think about it. It's like Cheetah. The element for gold. is G. It's O. A-U. A-U. A-U and A-U.

It was like an S-A-T. It was like a standardized test that wasn't for us. We killed it on the pop culture ones. We had to guess the faces of different because we were all journalists at the table. So that was easy. That's your wheelhouse. There was the song.

The song game was 20 songs. It got us. Right. Just the song game. Like they would play a song and you had to guess the name the song. It wasn't even just the artist who's named the song. They're playing like three coins in a fountain.

Perry Cuomo. They're like a U-2. I don't know how to YouTube. I like that shit. I like that white 50s music. Do you? Like Frank Sinatra. I wouldn't call him white 50s music, though.

Okay. Who's a white 50s guy you like? Pat Bowen. He's not 50s, is he? I think it's 50s. Is it 40s? He's country, right? I don't think so.

So, Pat Boone, I like the way his voice sounds. Maybe I'm thinking of another Pat. Maybe I'm thinking of another Pat. Pat Boone, who are you thinking about? Donnie? Pat Boone is definitely in the 50s. Donnie, are you here? Pat Boone, it says he was active from 54 to the present.

He's still alive. That's crazy. Pat Boone's still kicking. There's another Pat that's a country singer that I think I'm thinking of. All right, Pat Blum, yeah. You know why? Pat Boone is probably still alive. Why?

Because of the blood of niggas that he sucked to make his, he was covering all them black people. songs. Will you like them? Yeah, I'm saying. So whatever, man. What's you do this weekend? I went to Trayvon's birthday party Saturday night.

That's nice. Well, Magic Johnson wants to buy the Washington Commanders. ESPN just popped up. I went to Trayvon's birthday. Saturday night. Lawrence Bender. Spencer, Nick, all the homie, Samir, hanging out. Trayvon's birthday party, Zaria, over at Dirty Robber.

All the all the homies, it was fun. It was a lot of fun. We had a lot of fun. We had a lot of fun. We had a lot of talk, you know, as family, as friends together. Yesterday I caught up on Superman and Lois. I watched all. Is that a new series that's out?

It's been all for a couple of years now. Okay. It's about Superman and his family. They live in Smallville. I knew where he lived. He's got too. Well, he also has lived in Metropolis before. Lost me.

You know Smallville, more than Metropolis? Well, there was a show. So you don't know that Superman protects Metropolis. You don't know that Metropolis is the city that he's in, the daily planet. No. Interesting. That's like the city. That's the big city.

Basically New York City. Okay. Yeah. So he's a metropolis. You know, I'm not going to come down on you anymore about your lack of knowledge in comic books. stuff because I realized that I spent way too much time on that shit. No, it's just like your interest. I just, I really, I think you more so get interested in that I have no idea about this world that you know so much about.

Yeah. Because it, I don't know what I would have been doing, right? Maybe I would have been in a gang. Maybe I would have been reping the set. I had a dream last night that I was in the low bottoms in L.A. Is that a real gang? No, it's like, it's not a real gang. It's an area of LA.

And I was down there with the Bloodstone Villains chilling. I don't know why I was dreaming this. I was dreaming that I was around there. I literally dreamed that me and one of my homies was driving. And we saw somebody run into a store and robbed the store. They came out and we was out there chilling and barbecuing and stuff. And I don't know what the fuck the dream was about. I don't know why.

You were a blood. I wasn't a blood. I was with them. I was with the villains. So they're villains. They're the Bloodstone villains. It's a set of bloods. I thought you were calling them villains.

No, I don't know why. I don't know if, because sometimes I watch Swamp Stories on YouTube. So I'm not sure if maybe I fell asleep and Swamp Stories were still playing. Because I watched these YouTube's about different things that have happened between the gangs throughout Southern California, L.A. situations. I'm just interested in that type of stuff. You know what I watched? What? I have never watched.

Believe it or not, I'm not in the love reality shows, right? I like the housewife stuff. I like the drama lifestyle. Have a junket coming up. So I was like, let me go ahead and watch the show. Love is blind. Okay. I got hooked.

I actually think you would enjoy it. I'll never try it. I vow right now. You probably see that about housewives. I never did, but I can't do another one. No, no, no. It's too much. I get it.

I probably won't watch another season unless I have to. But I have to admit, it's good. I understand the hype. We're on the fourth season. Never I watched it before. Very good. Also saw a good movie. It's called A Good Person.

Okay. Coming out. Zach Braff wrote it and directed it. Florence Pugh, Morgan Freeman, Molly Shannon. It's very good. Zach Braff is a good filmmaker. Very good. You'll like this.

I'll dig it. I'll try it out. You'll all should. All right. Rachel, I have an idea. I want to know if you, you're hanging out with your friends and brunch and all that stuff. And they're all black women. I want to do something.

Mm-hmm. I want to do a higher learning summit of the sexes. The women that I was with would be fantastic for this. I want to do a higher learning summit of the sexes. Okay. There's narratives out there. We are the haters podcast. You hate black men.

I hate black women. Okay. I think what's happening here is these conversations aren't being framed in the right way in terms of intellectually and emotionally how people feel. And I think people, and I'm not going to speak for you,

but like myself, who, in terms of this conversation, I don't care about what everybody else thinks of me, but I do care about what black ladies think about me. I think there's something that we have to kind of try to get to the core of.

So what I would like to do is, just like we had the watch party, I want to have, have a situation to where we get three or four voices, prominent black ladies, three or four voices that are black men, and we have a conversation

moderated and hosted by us, along with the audience, about how we're interacting. A summit of the sexes. I love the title. I was going to call it a sex summit, but I don't feel like that works. You know what I mean? Because it's a sex summit,

then it's a totally different thing. Yeah, it might get the wrong crowd. Or the right crowd. I like it. I'm for it. We have to agree on the panel. Should we surprise each other? No, hell no, nigga. Fuck no.

What are you afraid? Why are you so serious about that? Because we can't surprise you. We got to workshop this. And we have to invite thought warriors to this. Maybe we don't have it here. Maybe we have a place where we can have more thought warriors. We need a couple of mics.

We need to get people in. We need people with different types of experiences. But not too many opinions. This is why it has to be... I don't want to have too many opinions, but I do want to have a lively conversation. And I wanted to be the state of black men and black women, right? Because there was something that you said,

and I don't want to say the wrong thing on the last podcast when we were talking about it, about, like, where we are now. Maybe it was when we were talking about Ben Affleck. Excuse me, Donnie? What the fuck? Donnie, what are you talking about? My bad.

Why the fuck are we talking about Ben Affleck? Leave this in. What are you doing? I just saw this video of Ben Affleck code switching. And I was debating to myself whether or not I should add this in the rundown. Is this a recent video? Is this this this? You want to put this in a rundown?

Donnie. Send it to the chat. Send it to the chat. And who gave you the right? Hold on it. While we're discussing something this series, all I hear is Ben Affleck. What the hell? We haven't been able to hear Donnie this entire.

time, but he made sure we heard Ben Affle. What the hell are you doing, Donnie? Who are you talking to? Anyway, Rachel, you were saying? No, there was something that you said, and it was more of like where we are, the way we understand each other right now. Like, I feel like

there's a hump we almost need to get over. Because a lot of times on this podcast, we have, there'll be a tweet or there'll be something that happens in the culture and black women and black men seem to have such, be on polar opposite, have polar opposite opinions on the matter.

So I think the state of us be a good, good conversation. It's like a live book. I like it. Here's the thing. I don't mean to overstate this because I do think sometimes if you're on social media too much,

this could be overstated. It seems like all black men and black women do is fight if you're on social media. And I'm in black households with black women and black men all the time. And it seems like people are, you know, but there are things. And there are things.

I want my mom to be on this. on the panel I want my mom to be there because my mom has a lot of musings about black men that I think people need to hear I think it would be great to like refer to Ms. Kristen

All right we got to talk about President Trump now your favorite thing to talk about you love him I know I've been waiting for this topic I mean I feel like it's been a while

since we've had the opportunity to really do a deep die his entire life I can't believe that whatever and later on we're going to have Chelsea Stark Jones she's the podcast manager here at the Ringer

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add to learn more about Tramfaya, including important safety information. I didn't watch Swarm yet. I'm going to start Swarm today. I didn't realize it was out already. Yeah. Yeah. Swarm has, I've heard the whole, I've heard the whole sort of spectrum of opinions on Swarm. Everybody agrees that it's a good show, but people, like, have different reasons why they agree that it's a good show. one of my homeboys.

And let me tell you guys something. I want to talk to my friends. I want them to know that we're now 42 years old. Okay. And sometimes we have to catch ourselves. So a friend of mine called me. He was like, yo, did you see Swarm? And I was like, no, I didn't see it.

He was like, bro, you got to see it, bro. It's a part on Swarm World Cluel. Boy Bailey is getting her cake smashed out. And I was like, my nigger, I don't know if that's okay. Which part that he said it or that she has sexing. She can have whatever sex. She's a grown-ass fucking woman. But like, I don't know.

I don't know, bro. I don't feel right. You know what I mean? He's like, wow, man, she's grown, bro. She grown. And then like what happens is when my homies from back home when they get mad, the Baton Rouge comes out. Mm-hmm.

Because we have a distinctive way of speaking that we grew up with, you know? Okay. You know, man, like when we get, man, man, whoop a nigga eyes, man. And fuck that nigga, man. I'm saying? See, I see how Boosie at?

That's how niggas really act for Baner. Man, fuck that nigga. Man, fuck that shit, nigga. Huh? That's how niggas. Okay. That's how they act, bro. And they do like this.

You know, it's all about. Bitch, bitch. Bitch. Puss ass. Nickle pussy ass nigga pussy ass, nigga. Donnie bleep all this. I get it.

I'm just saying. It's just a lot for our listeners. Bleep some of it, Donnie. That's how they talk. I believe you. And so when he was telling me about it and I challenged him, he kind of went back into that mode.

And it was so. So he cursed you out. Nah, he didn't curse me out. But it was like, man, see, that's why a nigga can't talk to you. Like, nigga, you try to act like you. You're on that woke shit. I'm talking, man, that girl grown, bro.

Them yams, it was yam. And I'm like, I don't know, dog. Like, she used to be singing on, like, the YouTube situation. And it's like, I didn't see her when she was too young, bro. I can't. I mean, obviously she's fine, but I don't have, I'm not, I haven't seen the scene that everybody's talking about. I don't think that I'll have a problem with the scene.

But just, he came across as a dirty old man. He was mad. He's still mad. He's a dirty old man to you because she's young. And you still see her as young? He's a dirt. Because would you have felt that way if he was talking about Ashanti was in that, was in that same role?

No, man. See? Okay, let's break this down. So it's different for Ashanti. He wouldn't be a dirty old man if it was Ashanti. So is it Chloe Bailey's age? Is it because you can't see Chloe Bailey outside of being the young girl you originally met her? Chloe Bailey is a sexy lady.

Okay? Beautiful, yes. Beautiful lady. All of it. The whole nine. To me, it's not about her age. It's about how I. first met her. Exactly, right. Ashanti, we've been on that Ashanti. We was that same age. And even

like other people, Sierra's been out for like a long time. She was young when she first came out. But we were young. It's like if you see somebody and it's like, it would have been like if my dad was like, oh, shit, Rudy. You see Rudy on the cover of the King magazine? Rudy. I'd be like, Come on, Dad. I'd be like that if anybody was talking that way about it. Rudy. You know what I mean? Like, you see Rudy, Rudy all grown up.

Oh, boy, that Rudy has grown up nice. I don't know, man. It's not weird. It's just so unfair, I feel like to Chloe. At one point, are we just going to let her just be exactly who she wants to be? See where you're taking it? And where's that? See, I didn't, I'm saying.

No, I know. It's okay for her. I'm not even targeting you. talking about him. No, I'm not talking to you. He called me like, you got to tune in to the yam cam. And I'm like, I don't know, bro, if we should be yamming, Chloe, you and I, dog. It's for the, let the younger niggas yam cam her up.

I feel like if you- So at what age should you stop yam-cam-caming? 35. You can't yam-cams-cloy. Wait, 35, if you're what age? If you're currently over 35, you got to let the younger niggas yam-cams, Chloe. You can't really yam-cam-cams. So age is a thing.

What I mean is if you're, this is what I mean. When Chloe was a young child, I was in my 30s. Okay. I'm not Larsa Pippin. I was literally thinking Larsa Pippin at this point. People get older. People grow up. We should watch the scene.

I've seen it. Oh, you saw the scene? I've seen it. It lasts all of 15 seconds and you don't even see Chloe's face. Well, shit, to be honest with you, when the meams is yamming like that, sometimes that's all you can get, you know, sometimes it's only going to be that long. looking at Damson. Oh, Daddy. Oh, is with Damson? Oh, let me see. Let me see. I have, let's see.

Damson, Idris, Chloe. Are you on Twitter? Yeah. Okay. Dampson and Chloe. Chloe, boom. Let me see. Hey, have you seen the scene, Donnie? Yeah, I watched the first episode. It, uh, it's like, it happens in like the first. Five to ten minutes of the first episode.

It's like the second scene. Is this an HR violation? I mean, yeah, it's, yeah. You know what bothers me? Chloe talked about how nervous she was to do this and how she was not necessarily afraid of what people were going to say, but, you know, she talked about how she's,

what does she say? Wait, I think that she said that she's, she said as open and liberal as I am about my body, I was very scared because I had, haven't had that many partners. And she talked about, she said, I'm not like that. Like, that's sexual and open. But she talks, she goes on to talk about how Damson made her feel comfortable.

So she was very nervous about stepping into this role and doing, and having this scene, here goes the van smart. When that happens, just zoom in on his face. Just zoom in on his face. But no, real talk. She accepted this role. She's excited about this movie. there's a 15-second sex scene in it.

She was nervous about it. I would imagine anybody having a sex scene that's never had one before would be very nervous. And all people are talking about is like, how dare Chloe do this? And she needs better mentors and who does she think she is? And I just feel like she's so unfairly judged.

She obviously liked this part. There was this scene in it. She's more than just this one scene. And people just hold her to an unfair standard. And I hate that for Chloe. It's not fair. I agree. Anybody else would do it.

You watch Euphoria? I don't. The way those teens are. Can I be honest with you? Yeah. I don't watch Euphoria because, and by the way, let's be honest about this. There's hypocrisy here from me. Mm-hmm.

Because it doesn't really have anything to do with the age at all. Because in my only fans days, when I was a subscriber, it's not like there was any cutoff, right? 24, 25, all that, 33, whatever. It's only the fact that you watch the growth. Now, with Chloe, I think that the role itself, people get naked and have sex things on camera. It's not that big of the deal. Kate Winslet, Titanic is probably around the same age. It's part of the story.

It's not that big of a deal. It's never that big of a deal to have a sex scene in the movie. No matter how far the sex thing goes to me. It's not that big of the deal. But in talking to my homie, it just felt weird. The whole conversation felt weird. And I don't know why I felt weird. Maybe I'm wrong.

Maybe this is part of it. Maybe I need to let go of it. But it just felt weird. Like, you know, calm me up. Like, talk about it. We could talk about Ashanti. Like, oh, damn. Did you see Ashanti?

Is there anybody else you do that with other than Chloe? Because you're not alone, right? Other people feel this way about her. What do you mean? Is there any other younger actress that you would feel? Because it's almost like you feel protective a little bit over Chloe. Storm read. Yeah.

That would be like a sharp contrast. At least there's been a buildup with Chloe where she's, you know, she's been more. No, Storm is a beautiful. No, I know. That is a beautiful young woman. But for some, like, for some reason and like my younger homies and my, not my younger homies, my younger cousins and stuff like that, I remember specifically, one of my younger family members hit me up and they saw that we follow each other.

It's like, hey, do you know her, bro? Like, she's number one on their list. Like, she's one of the top ones they love, right? And it's, I'm like, leave her alone. don't talk to her Storm is wrinkling time Let's storm You know

That's also because you know her A little bit Yeah Not like really But you know what I mean So it's like I get it I don't know

Maybe it's just like A older dude thing To be kind of like I don't know They were once young But now they're not young anymore Well people need to leave her alone There are plenty of other shows

With young people having sex And they don't get fairly judged Nobody's saying anything about Dampson Damson. In that scene. You liked them. You like that. You like Damson.

You enjoyed that. Oh, that. Look at that. You're like, God damn. I haven't seen chocolate like that in a while. You're like, shit. Look at it. The sweat is different.

All right. We actually gave you guys a topic during pleasantries. We went too long. But the big deal. of the day is on the other side of this break, and that is Donald Trump and his arrest. Great. Great. This episode is brought to you by Sweet Green.

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Tap this ad to learn more about trim fire, including important safety information. Rachel. Uh-huh. Donald Trump has his troops on high alert. He's got everybody. Yeah, man. Ready to go.

Trump world, the MAGA situation is back popping again. And Trump. Full force. Full force. Trump is getting his people prepared for his potential arrest. Now, it is Monday as we are recording, but by the time this comes out Tuesday,

Donald Trump sits, he might be on his way to the Bing, and he is encouraged all of his followers because these are not, you know, supporters anymore. These are followers of their cult of Trump. To come out and protest and take their country back.

Of course, this is surrounding the potential indictment that Trump might face in New York. Over allegations, whether or not he actually used campaign finances to pay hush money to Stormy Daniels. Rachel, your thoughts?

I think this is really scary. And it's not because Donald Trump took to his Twitter and said and encouraged people to protest. It's like what all of this represents. I don't know if you heard what Chris Rock said. He spoke at the Mark Twain Award event that they had. And Adam Sandler was being honored.

And he said he talked to Nancy Pelosi in the audience. And he was like, why are you arresting Trump? Don't you think, don't you realize this is going to make him even more popular? He said it's like arresting Tupac. Okay. Not the same thing. But, you know. Chris Rock said that?

Mm-hmm. He said what? Mm-hmm. He said it's like arresting Tupac. Not saying, I'm not agreeing with that. The point is. Is this thing going to figure it out? No.

This late in the game? I'm no. Hold on, man. Wait a second. Wait a second, bro. I don't want to do the revisionist history on Chris Rock. There's something new that's happened to Chris Rock. Chris Rock back in the day was, at least when I was coming up, maybe I was different.

But it seemed like Chris Rock could be counted on for some useful pontifications. and observations about the sort of American condition. This, back in the day, it seemed like he was... There's a whole narrative about Chris Rock, always pandering to white people and letting white people get away with certain things. Like, there's videos of him allowing other comedians say the N-word. See, that's recent, though. People have constantly talked about the way he's talked about black women.

There's a, there's a whole group of people who have not liked Chris Rock and the way that he does his comic thing for a while. Like that's not new. I would say it's 50-50. How are learning deep dive all on Chris Rock are you in? Because it's like arresting Tupac. Why

I bring Tupac into it? What was the point of that? It's just like not funny. His point was that you're making, you're going to make him more popular. That was his whole thing, right? Why are you arresting Trump? You're going to make him more popular. As I said from the beginning, not the same thing by saying it's like arresting Tupac, but I, but the point that

he's trying to make is that this is going to make Donald Trump more popular. And I do, the reason I say that this is bigger than just him making this tweet and this statement about the protesting, encouraging people to protest, is because of, he's at this point making himself a victim of political prosecution. He's doing this to garner sympathy ahead of what may come, right? Because the DA's office hasn't even said that they're going to arrest him on Tuesday. It's likely that an arrest will happen. Don't know if it'll happen Tuesday, but he's already getting people geared up. I mean, the GOP was running to make statements, running to call this a political attack, rather than acknowledging that there is any criminal conduct here on behalf of Donald Trump, rather than letting the criminal justice system hear the case, they are completely inserting themselves. There's personal attacks against the DA, who's black here, first black DA in Manhattan, there's personal attacks against Biden, there's personal attacks against the Democrats. all of this to muddy the waters. And rather than just allowing this to be litigated,

they're politicizing this. And I think this is showing what's to come. They're even bullying people in the Republican Party who aren't making statements, particularly Ron DeSantis, who had to eventually come out and say something because both Donald Trump Jr. called him out.

Trump and his people called him out for staying quiet and not saying anything. So now he comes out and makes a statement. So he is forced because he's so afraid of being silent, He's so afraid of what Trump and the Trumpers will say that he has to align himself with Trump's ideology, whether he believes it or not. They're bullying him into following his way. And I think the bigger thing of what it's doing is showing how much power Trump still has over this party because people are running to support him, running to defend him. And this is what we saw before.

It's almost as if nothing has changed. Nobody's standing up to him. So for those of you don't know, Donald Trump called Stormy Daniels back in 2007. And he asked her, he said, hey, come meet with me. You might be on Celebrity Apprentice. We want to talk about being on Celebrity Apprentice. She went to Lake Tahoe to meet him. And according to Stormy Daniels, they fought.

Okay, so then after this, there was another meeting between them when there was no sex had. She did not end up getting a job on somebody apprentice. When Donald Trump ran for president, Stormy Daniels was going to go talk to in touch magazine at some point after this and she was going to get $15,000. She did not get that $15,000 and never came out because Michael Cohen and Donald Trump written to suit in touch magazine. When Trump ran for president, he paid $125,000 to Stormy

Daniels. The situation is that this was paid was given to Michael Cohen and paid to Stormy Daniels. Then Michael Cohen was reimbursed. So the question is about where the money came from. Michael Cohen. Trump paid it and said this was paid to Cohen for legal services. Oh, and then paid Stormy Daniels. The question is now, did the money come from things that were involved in the campaign

to give to Michael Cohen, to give to Stormy Daniels? to give to Stormy Daniels. And if Donald Trump did this, is that, in fact, A, against campaign finance regulations, and then B, a misdemeanor charge that people are talking about because the campaign finance regulations is the big one, the misdemeanor charge would be whether or not Trump was mislabeling. Falsifying business records.

Falsifying business records, absolutely. And I've heard compelling arguments about why, why the falsification of business records is a big deal and obviously sort of misappropriating campaign finance stuff is a big deal. If you're being all the way honest, I don't think this case is that big of the deal.

I don't. I don't think it's that big of a deal. And it's obviously politically motivated. It's obviously politically motivated. That's why I would argue that Donald Trump, by the way, when I say politically motivated, I don't mean that to say too sully the integrity of the case. Okay?

Okay. Okay. This is what I mean. Explain. I'm calling a spade a spade. All right. When Bill Clinton was under prosecution for perjury, he actually lied. And his prosecution was politically motivated.

he actually did something wrong he actually lied and the reason why they made such a big deal about it was because of who Bill Clinton was and that's so if Donald Trump was not running for office again I don't think anyone would give a fuck about this well hold on no no no wrong

if Donald Trump wasn't running for office again they would still do this I do I do think that I think they would still do this but had Donald Trump hadn't been the president and this was some other situation he probably this probably wouldn't be that big of deal. Part of this is because Donald Trump is seen as rightly so, this malevolent force in American political discourse and discussion. And there are people that want to short circuit that

force and cut the head off that rattlesnake. And that's because of who he is not as the celebrity apprentice guy or not as the fake billionaire Manhattan real estate guys, who he is as the figure have the Republican Party, the spearhead of this sort of really pernicious political movement and the former president. So I think everybody's being bullied here. I think Donald Trump has a meat cleaver hanging over the Republicans head because if they do not nominate him, he could run third party and fuck them up, right? And they want the presidency back.

So they're being bullied into legitimizing any single gripe that Donald Trump has. any single drive that Donald Trump has. It remains to be seen whether or not the Republicans will feel so bullied that they will all throw their support behind Donald Trump because they can't move on from him without him taking the whole ship down. But I feel like Lazard, who is the district attorney in New York, he probably feels... Bragg is the district attorney in New York.

Why am I calling him? Is it Alan Bragg? Alvin, I think. Alvin Brack, you know, you know why I just called out Lazzard? Because I was playing with the Green Bay Packers last night on that. Throwing dimes to Lazzard. Just Lazzar was all over the field. That's what you put. I got Madden on the brain, madden and gangs.

So anyway, Bragg, he probably feels a fair degree of pressure, that being political pressure and career pressure, to also bring this indictment. Because the more you look into this, the more this is a difficult case. It's not an easy case. No, it's not going to be an easy case. But it's like, it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation for brag.

But if they don't win, it's worse. It's kind of what we were talking about with the documents. If you decide to go after Trump, you almost have to win because the other side of it is going to be worse. They will take the fact that he beat it as in C. I told you there was nothing there. See there just after me. This was a witch hunt. See, this was all politically motivated.

See, this person donated to Bragg's campaign. This person was, you know, is a Democrat going for, you know what I mean? It's just going to be so, add so much fuel to the fire. It's almost worse. So it's like, do you go after Trump? Because it's, he, there's actually a crime here and you believe that? Or do you not go after Trump just for fear of what could happen should you lose this? I am, that's why I say this.

whole issue is bigger than this tweet than just the arrest. There's just so much more to it and the impact that it's going to have with the 2024 election. Can I ask your question? Seriously. When we say energized Trump supporters, what do we mean by that? Meaning, so if you, people say if you indict here, there are some people say that if you you don't get him, you ensure that he wins the White House.

There are some people that say if you indict period, you ensure that he gets to the White House, right? An indictment period, because he can still run if he's under indictment, right? Like, an indictment period means that Donald Trump, it makes him stronger, whatever. Why do we think that? I'm not so sure I believe that. That it makes him stronger if you, if, so. If he beats it?

Either way. So if we're talking about Donald Trump's 40% of Americans or whatever it is, the, let's call it, 36% of Americans that are going to vote for Donald Trump no matter what. Do we believe that those people in an election where Donald Trump asked for their support are going to ever stay home? I don't think they will. Okay. I think if Donald Trump is running for a public office, then those people will vote for Donald Trump

and they will come out and vote for Donald Trump. He's going to turn them out. Okay. If we're talking about people that make up a 5 to 10% swing population, all right, a swing population of voters, not the other people who are going to vote Democrat, no matter what,

the swing population of voters, are we saying that those people who didn't vote for the Trump party and the Trump candidates last time and who didn't vote for them in 2020 are going to vote for them? This 5 to 10.

Because they think that Trump is being treated unfairly? I think that there are a lot of people are within that percentage who do feel that it is politically motivated and they don't like that. And that's going to change them from having voted for someone else in 2020 and someone else potentially in 2022.

Well, I mean, that's hard to say. So voting for Donald Trump now and they're going to do this because they think he's being treated unfairly by the government. I know that everyone is afraid of riling up the Trump people, but I don't know how much of a difference

that any of this makes because I'd argue on the other side that if he is indicted and it looks like they got him, that those people that support Trump will still support him. No, no, no. I'm not talking about the people who are MAGA, who are Trumpers, there's no, there's no changing them. They are who they are. I'm talking about the people more in the middle, that 5 to 10% or whatever that percentage is that you're talking about. I do think there are a lot of people who could look at this as like, this is getting too messy.

It's a witch hunt. Why are they going after him? In the same way that you said, I think that this is a weaker case. I think that there's something else that you said. Whatever it was, it was more middle ground. Or you take the stance that Chris Rock had that said, why are you going after him?

I think there's a lot of people who think that way. And I think it could make them be displeased with what the Democrats are doing because they think that maybe they're going too far. They do think it's a bit of a witch hunt. People don't like that. They don't want to see that. It seems like the government is involved

with what's happening with this criminal case. Some people may look at it that way. And because they look at it that way, that would make them be sympathetic and cast their vote for Donald Trump. Or will it make them stay home? It might make them stay home. It might make them stay home.

Because remember, these are people in the middle, right? So you already might be feeling a certain way about the Biden-Harris administration. You might not be that pleased with what they're doing. You're on the fence. Then if you see, oh, it looks like, like they're going after him and it's politically motivated. Why are you wasting your time with this?

Why are you wasting resources with this? Why are you focusing? Why are you so fixated on Trump? I wouldn't be shocked if they're just displeased with government, period, and stay home. I wouldn't be surprised with that. So I think you could lose voters. You might, okay? You might.

But if he lose, I say if he loses. Right. I mean, I'm sorry, if he beats the case as well. I'm sorry. What I'm saying is I feel like there's been a clear pattern. of American disenchantment with Trumpism. Not as much as we would like it to be, but when I say American disenchantment,

I mean what it takes to win national and state elections. Not as much as we would like it to be. But enough that you lost the presidential race, that you didn't pick up as many seats as you should have last time. And these are people that are voting, right? Yeah. Might they lose faith in the Democrats and decide that they want to give DeSantis a spin? Or decide that they want to...

Not the track that DeSantis is on now. He's too extreme. Maybe or whomever. Or be it Nikki Haley, be it Tim Scott, be it whomever they're going to run, okay? Whoever they got running. Mike Pence, whomever. If things get a lot worse and we continue to see some of the issues we're seeing with the banking system and the economy craters a little bit. But to re-ignite the Trump train,

I don't know how, if Trump is going to win in 2024, I'm not so sure there's much that can happen between then and now that can ensure that. Like, America has a dissertation in who Donald Trump is. We have a psychopedic knowledge on Donald Trump, encyclopedic knowledge. You know, it's funny.

like the American algorithm is broken. You know how like if you go on YouTube and you see people that post certain things and they have stars over certain words, you know, the YouTube algorithm punishes you for having certain words in the title of one of your videos.

So if you go and you say someone sexually assaulted somebody, and that's part of it, so-and-so accuses somebody, else's sexual assault. You will see when they post that video on YouTube that there'll be stars over assault because they don't want the algorithm to not suggest the video. Or when they upload these videos after they've done live streams, they'll bleep out the

curse words because they don't want the algorithm to not suggest the video. The algorithm doesn't like it when it sees certain words. was like rape, curse words, abuse, all of that stuff. They want to promote nice stuff to people and stuff that people, hey, get behind it type stuff. America's algorithm is broken. We continue to indulge into the same keywords like over and over and over again. We cannot turn Trump off.

Nobody can. everybody right now is captured up by who Trump is. You, it's become, and don't get me wrong. I do think that Donald Trump provides a very specific threat. And I'm not downplaying that. Like what he did when he went on truth social. That's an attempt to, in my opinion, inspire violence, right?

Absolutely. Okay. I am starting to wonder what the fixation on. his every move does for people, what it does for me. Like, why we're so scared that while it's Trump, Trump World, MAGA, all of these are keywords that should automatically make it, sort of, they should automatically divorce us from whatever is being talked about. We can't help but be indulged in it.

because one side is scared to not be close to him, and the other side is scared of what he might do. I've never seen anything like this. You say we indulge it. Are you talking about us as the public? Are you talking about the media? I'm talking about every time Trump farts, we sniff it. So can the argument be made because when he was farting before,

to use your example? We didn't take it seriously or we didn't always pay attention to it. I get it. I understand that. And then we've seen it what it can do. Yeah. You know what I mean? And so I think you have to take the things that he say seriously because his Trumpers do.

The Trumpers do. And they act on it. Right now, you've got people threatening the life of the DA because Trump called him racist and said that he was attacking him and after him. Like, it's a real threat. I would not be shocked if somebody tries to take, God forbid. like try to harm him because of the things Trump's saying and now he's being threatened in that way. The DEA's had to come out and make offices come out and made a statement that they're going to still pursue and go the route that they want to in the name of justice rather than fear of what that audience is trying to do to him.

So if you're bragged, then what do you do? Do you feel like, so you do your job? And your job is to, let me ask you this. John Edwards had a case. that wasn't quite the same as this one. John Edwards had a donor back in the G pay for, I think it was the abortion of a woman that he got pregnant or something like that or put hush money to someone who got pregnant. And that was a donor that paid for it. They acquitted John Edwards in that case. You know, I mean, this is, the stakes are so high here.

Yes. And this doesn't seem to be a slam dunk issue. The Georgia case, the Georgia case is the big, yeah. Which involves the integrity of American elections is the big one. But now everything is this thing to where there's so much pressure on people to do what other people think they should do. Like if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, we looked at this. , because the fed's already kicked. it, right? If Brad's, if Brad was to say we looked at this and we decided this wasn't a good use of our resources, they would tear that nigger up.

So I said, damned if you do, damned if you don't. But that's because we're so connected and so emotionally connected to everything that Donald Trump does. It's also because of what Trump would do. If he says I'm not going to, Trump would come out and say, because I'm innocent and they were just after me. It's not. us as much is almost a response to what Trump does. And you almost have to because you can't anymore just say, that's just somebody talking because people take everything he says as the truth. And they act on it. And they believe it. I mean, you got people on trial right now.

I think they actually convicted some of them today. Correct me if I'm wrong on that, Donnie. Who, you know, are part of the January 6th riot. So, like, you can't just say that's just Trump anymore. I know. You have to respond. at this point I'm just you know and I don't want to be a dead mule but at this one I just wonder what's the best way to move on from Trumpism like what's the best way to to deal with it I mean to me

nobody's above the law if you broke the law then you should have to face the consequences although you know I don't really give a fuck if people go to jail or not but nobody's above the law, if you brought the law, you should face the consequences. It just seems like there's so much at stake here. And when you really look at it, there's not as much meat on the bone as you would like there to be. You know why we can move on? And we, I guess I mean liberals, progressives, because the GOP hasn't. He's still, he's bullying people, as I said earlier, into making statements and to aligning themselves with him. So like, they're all standing behind him. They're a force behind him. So it's like, we can't ignore.

We have somebody that's going to sit down and talk to us. Chelsea Stark Jones. Now, if you guys know the podcast and you're big fans, then you know that Chelsea's on the Ringer team over here at Spotify. She's got a new podcast coming out. Okay. It's called Black Bald. Man, just keep moving on. Black Ball.

Just keep moving on. The podcast is the name of the podcast. The podcast. is a history of interracial porn scenes in America. It starts off from the very early black and white era of pornography, and it leads all the way up to black.com, which is now that, no, that's not what it's about. It is about Kenny Washington, Woody Strode, Bill Willis,

and Marion Motley, who reintegrated professional football in 1946. You guys, I can tell you something about this podcast. I can't wait until Chelsea comes in to talk about it. I once was at The Ringer all day long here at Spotify and like fucking around talking to people. And the whole time I was just messing around being a social butterfly in the office talking to different people. Chelsea was working diligently on this podcast. And so I'm very happy that it's finally, you know, seeing the light of day. She's going to come talk to us.

We're going to do that when we come back from the other side of this break. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business to keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more.

Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need weather tech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer.

You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. All right, we're back. We got Chelsea here. Chelsea, podcast manager at the Ringer. What made you want to step from behind the curtains and host this podcast? Oh, wow. Well, I pitched this podcast.

We have these Ringer brainstorms. And we had an NFL one. And I pitched the show with no intention of hosting it or reporting on it whatsoever. I just thought we should do this. This is important. And I was talking to Vikram and Connor. Yep. And Connor Nevins about my time at the NFL.

And how much I felt conflicted about my time there because I was very proud of the work that I did. But I felt very undervalued while I was there. And through my passion of talking about it and like how at times it's hard for me to watch football on Sundays and stuff like that, they figured I'd be the best person to tell this story. So it was through that conversation. I was a little bit reluctant because it's an important story. It takes a lot of my personal background and stuff too. And yeah, so that's how it all came to be.

So what kind of journey is BlackBald going to take us on? Because it's not the one that Vand. Yes, it is not in a racial porn. That would be a good podcast. Well, you work on that. I'll do it. Chelsea's hard work was not based on that. Not at all.

It's fine. Very important subject. Yeah. Yeah, so blackballed tells the story of Kenny Washington, Woody Strode, Bill Willis and Marion Motley, who integrated and reintegrated professional football. Kenny and Woody did it in L.A. with the Rams, and Bill and Marion did it in Cleveland. And what we see and what we learn about their experience is they, black people in the 1930s to the 40s for over a decade, were blackballed from playing professional football. specifically the NFL at the time. And this was for a bunch of reasons,

but we look at their issue and what they went through and how we still see some of those things happening today within the NFL, from Colin Kaepernick to Brian Flores to positional racism and... Lamar Jackson. And so much of how the past informs the present. And the NFL doesn't acknowledge this dark history. They're slowly starting to acknowledge these players and honor them in some ways.

But for the most part, it was integrated. It wasn't, there was a gentleman's agreement, is what it was called, is the owners band together. And so my thought behind it is because they ignored it for so long is a lot of the reasons why we're seeing the issues that we're seeing today. What did you learn? Wow. So I was somewhat familiar.

about their story. When I worked at the NFL, I did a documentary on Fitzpollard. And that's how I first came to learn about them. But the most interesting tidbit of it was for Kenny and Woody. They both played for UCLA. They actually both played a year with Jackie Robinson. And they were six years post-grad before they signed with the Rams.

And how that all came to be was through black journalists in Los Angeles, pretty much petitioning and challenging the owners of the Rams because they moved from Cleveland to L.A., saying if you want to play in the L.A. Memorial Coliseum, you have to employ a black person because this is a publicly owned space. And we are not going to allow our tax dollars to promote a segregated sport. And it was truly that power of the black media at the time, which was very prominent in Los Angeles, that got... them on the roster, specifically Kenny. And then they allowed Kenny to have a roommate. And Woody Strode was his best friend. So that's how they became the first two to break the color barrier in the NFL. Is the NFL racist? I think the NFL has a lot of problematic things to do with race. It's hard for me because I've worked there for 10 years. So I don't like to generalize the NFL entirely because I know so many wonderful people, wonderful black people that work there and that have tried to do a lot of work to break down a lot of these systemic barriers that we face. But I don't think that the NFL cares enough to go beyond the posturing, the public posturing that

they do to really fix the issues that they have with race. From employment, not just on the field, but executives, media group. There's so much more that could be done that they just aren't doing and they're choosing not to do. Why? Well, I spoke with Jim Trotter, who is a reporter with NFL Media, and I asked him this question. And I think his answer was telling, and I think it's pretty spot on, is that they're not seeing in effect their bottom line. And so therefore, it's not a priority for them. So with that, you know, we're not losing viewership.

I watch football every Sunday still. And even though I feel wrong by them or I feel like they're doing so many wrong things. So until they see it affect them in a way that's monetary, I don't think anything's really going to change. I say yes, they are racist. And I think the compromises that we make in watching will be. are the same compromises that we make supporting and endeavoring into racist structures that we live with and interact with in our daily life all the time. There is an understanding, both intellectually and spiritually, this country is founded upon

and propped up by structural and institutional racism in every single part of it. The NFL is no different. The fact that they would wait till it affects their bottom line to evolve, to me, proves this. Now, I'll ask you a question. Colin Kaepernan. How do you guys approach Colin's story, his relationship with the NFL and what happened in Blackball? Or do you guys? We do.

So the episode pretty much starts off with that. And we chose him and his story because, in my opinion, it's a clear correlation of a league of owners banning together to not let someone play and be on a team, similar to what happened in 1933 to 1946 when they banned together to not allow black players on the team. So we start that with him taking a knee. But we also talk about all the quarterbacks during that, what was it, 2017, 2016, free agency that got opportunities to be put on a roster. Jay Cutler, Mike Glennon, Brian Hoyer, and how we would see the starting to get picked up. And I remember back then I was working at the NFL wondering why Colin Kaepernick wasn't signed to a team. And then, but you could plucked Jay Kutler off the couch after you were.

tired, and I think he had two surgeries that season, and he is playing for the dolphins. So we start with that. We get into Colin taking a knee, and then also why he took a knee, which I also think for a lot of the nation, it was largely misinterpreted, and his movement was hijacked by his reasoning for what he did and why he did it. So we get into that as well. The gentleman's agreement. That's basically collusion, right? Yes. Can you talk a little bit about it? I, like, I listened to the first episode, and I was like, well, this is so interesting because I didn't even know.

As a fan of football, I didn't know. I wasn't familiar with some of these names when the sport was first integrated. And I definitely was not familiar with the gentleman's agreement. And then when you talked about it, and I was like, this is literally collusion, which we know Kaepernick, that's the case that he won against the NFL with Eric Re. Can you talk a little bit about the gentleman's agreement? I don't want to give away too much. No, yeah, but it's interesting because it was something that's, it was an unknown secret or an unwritten secret. So everyone knew about it. It just wasn't spoken about. Like, players, and granted, there were not a lot of black players in the NFL prior to 1933. There were a handful.

But they started to notice that they were no longer having opportunities to play. And they noticed that when they would be college stars and they would be. players that were that were sought after and Kenny Washington for example was one of those after his senior year at UCLA he played in the college all-star game which back then was weird but they played against all the college all-sars played against the um defending champion so they played against the green bay packers they won some yes yeah and Kenny Washington was the only black player on that college all-sars team George Hallis seemingly had interest in and in signing him but when he took it to the owners they all declined mind. And so this gentleman's agreement was something that was never really like publicly

and all the owners back then would deny it. But for me, I think a large issue or a large reason as to why it's not something that modern day NFL fans know about is because a lot of these owners, their families still own the teams. So we're looking at the Steelers, the bears, the giants, like, their legacy owners. And they're not. going to talk badly or throw under the bus any any other relatives. So I think it's it's really fascinating. It's really interesting. We kind of like, you know, I have ideas of like how this all came to be and whatnot, but it's not widely discussed. Yeah. The name of the podcast is Blackballed. She's Chelsea Stark Jones. She comes from royalty.

That's the same. Oh, my God. Thanks. You guys have ever seen the book of Boba Fett, Chelsea's father played Black Crescenton, the Wookie Bounty Hunter, in that. You're going to take your mic off the table? He is the man.

Who else did he play? I'm not watching, I only watched the first episode of Mandalorian so far, but he plays the pirate in the season of Mandalorian. Wow! Yeah. Star Wars royalty. Chelsea, I can't wait to listen to this. It's exciting.

When is it, when does it drop? It comes out today, Tuesday. And then the second episode will be released Thursday. And then episodes three and four next Tuesday and Thursday. So it's all on the ringer NFL feed. It's a labor of love. I got a lot of personal stuff kind of intertwined in it. But also, you know, it's elevating black stories and black undertold stories,

which I'm very excited and proud of that. I was able to do this here at the ringer. Wow. It's amazing. It's amazing. Congratulations, Chelsea. All right. You guys, that was Chelsea Stark Jones.

Before Chelsea goes, something we talked about last podcast, I'd just like to get this in real quick. Van gave his power ranking of. I don't want to. Because Chelsea also is on Morally Corrupt show on the ring of reality TV feed. And Van gave his ranking of Potomac Housewives. Now, I'm not going to ask you to critique Van's ranking because we all know it's bad. But please give yours. Oh, okay.

This is new for me. That was mean. It was not a good ranking van. Giselle Bryant number one, MIA number two? It was the MIA. Everybody's told me about the MIA thing. You know what? I'm coming on morally corrupt to defend this ranking with specific examples, by the way.

I want to do, but anyway, go ahead. I want to go ahead. We will, I will go with overall. Overall. Yeah. You know what? Deep cut. Monique Samuels is my number one.

I miss her. Didn't she get kicked off the show because of violence? She left on her own accord. And she had one of the best reunion performances ever. I think the best reunion performance ever. I will go with her number one. And her enemy, Candice, I think, will be number two. She's really pulled away this last season.

The Grand Dame number three. I will give... No. Ashley number three, Grand Dame four Giselle Robin Mia Wendy

Wendy? Wendy? Wendy's before Giselle Jesus Christ If you're gonna name Monique is number one

you need to name her binder as number two I remember I heard about the binder Pastor Holy Horror Hey I remember I heard about the binder

The binder became Elite television I want to I want to I want to call out somebody Cali Curry Did she hit you up? Callie Curry

Come on higher learning Don't tweet me About my ranking Don't throw Callie Curley Curly Curly Callie Juliet Everybody that got at me about my ranking

I'm down to come with all of you guys in the same Come on the podcast and defend my ranking me against the world. Me and Jazeel and Mia against the world.

Well, 7 a.m. on Friday, Van, you available? 7 a.m.? Yes. I'll do it. Okay, let's do it. I love this crossover. Thanks guys were having me. Thank you for coming, Chelsea.

Okay. Unfortunately, we have to take a trip back to Yuvaldi because the news demands it. There is new, and in my opinion, shocking information about the events that unfolded in the aftermath of a gunman taking aim at babies in Yuvaldi, Texas. Okay.

So an investigation into this incident has found that the police waited an hour because they were scared of the AR-15 that the gunman had. During the 22 school shooting where 19 children were killed police officers in Yuvaldi, Texas, hesitated to enter the classroom where gunmen were. gunmen. Salvador Ramos was barricaded because they were afraid they were outgunned by his AR-15 style rifle, according to an investigation in the Texas Tribune, even though some of them had the same type of weapon. What's the safest way to do this? I'm not trying, hold on for a second. Hold on for a second. There's no way that this police officer said this. Apparently he did.

What's the safest way to do this? I'm not trying to get clapped out. One officer can be heard saying on radio communications. I'm saying by the publication. Me neither. In real time, I'm reading this. Because when I sent the story over, I didn't see the quotes.

That type of cowardice is almost funny. That is shocking and breathtaking cowardice. We just, we had no choice but to wait and try to get something that had better coverage to where we could actually stand up for him. Another officer said in a videotaped interview as part of the department's internal investigation of the incident. The decision to not confront the shooter swiftly may have potentially delayed medical care to some of the survivors of the tragedy and left Ramos in a classroom of panicked children for more than an hour before a border patrol. SWAT team was able to arrive and neutralized the gunman. Even with an eventual force of nearly 400 officers,

it took more than an hour to locate and kill animals. He killed 19 kids. A force of 400 officers. A force of 400 officers. And not one was, I'm not saying all 400 were there, but not one of those officers was courageous enough. They take a sworn oath to protect and serve, and not one of them

could stand up and do that. Some of them were in the hallway listening to it happen, but we're too afraid, too afraid to save the lives of children when this is the job that you're supposed to. Every single time news comes out, I had heard the reports about them not doing anything

about them being scared. I had not seen the close. I mean, we saw the video. Every single time a report comes out about Evaldi, it gets worse and worse and worse. Because before it was very general, right? They were talking about this was the fault of the police and there were systemic failures in regards to what happened.

But the more they get into the particulars, the sickening it is. I cannot imagine being a parent and knowing that my child could have been saved, but because a police officer was too scared to get, to do what they're supposed to do, my child, my baby had to die. I can't even imagine this. And then Texas lawmakers won't do anything. They concluded that Yuvaldi massacre was worsened by a series of systemic failures and egregious decisions made by the police. So obviously there are a couple of very glaring things here.

I mean, they all have to do with decisions that have been made for us and things that we've decided. All right. Before this, everyone involved had said that the fact that the guy had an AR-15 wasn't a factor in their hesitation to go in and liberate the children and save their lives or get the gunman. So that's a lie. It certainly was a factor. But there are competing narratives here and the narratives come from all over the place. And we've heard these narratives before, number one. We've heard that the cops are the good guys in every situation. And when they get to the situation, they'll make it better, even though they routinely kill. We've also heard that the R15 is a non-starter in terms of conversations about the safety of targets in the country,

be there schools, be there schools or churches, the supermarkets, theaters, that the gun itself is not. not a factor in this, which this proves to be a lie. They were afraid because they didn't think that he could, that they could stand up against the weapon that he had. And it's very important that we name this because

we're going to forget again. We're going to forget again that this gun is fearsome enough to scare guys who are trained with the very same weapon. And we're going to forget again that the police,

when they're not failing systemically, are cowards. A large portion of the issues that we have with policing in terms of the overreaches of authority and force,

it's just cops say that they're scared. Like, you're scared of Mike Brown. He's 18 years old. He's like a a demon hokehole when you call him. So you got to kill him, right? You're scared. You don't know what somebody is going to do.

You don't know if they're going to beat you to death. Trayvon Martin is in a fight with George Zimmerman, who wasn't a police officer. And he starts to get his ass kicked after he initiated the fight. You're scared so he's got to kill somebody. These guys are so scared that they won't save kids' lives. Right. what it seems like the police everywhere they exist have in common is cowardice. And I don't think that's controversial to say.

I'm sure some people will be mad about it. But it seems like there's, you know, there's cops. I hear this all the time. It's like I got to think when I go on to a call, I'm thinking about going back home to my kids. And I understand if you're thinking about that, you're a human being. What you should be thinking about

is what you're trained to think about is the de-escalation of the situation and the outcome. This is really incredible. And it's another thing that you look at it and we're being held hostage by this. There's nothing that we can do. So nothing you can do in Texas.

Like you could literally in Texas right now you could have had these guys on video saying fuck those kids and nothing would change. Nothing. Less than a week after it happened, it might have been in the same week that the governor went to an NRA meeting,

an NRA conference. You know, like a couple hundred miles away. Right. Because it's all about who's giving the money, who's supporting them, and not upsetting their base. They said it before with Sandy Hook. If that wasn't going to change the laws,

what happened and you've involved, he wasn't going to change them either, sadly, and they're not going to hold police accountable. See, their way of holding police accountable in this situation was to fire the police chief, as if he was the problem. And it's not, this is the force of 400 people, and not one of them could go in there

and protect those children. And it speaks to the bigger issue with policing. Huh. It speaks to sort of this gumbo of American failures. it really is like affecting. Like I'm a little discombobulated right now. This gumbo of failure that we're in.

There's a little bit here and there's a little bit there and there's a little bit everywhere. Different ingredients that are sourced from different places that are just making this incredibly rich societal dysfunction. And you just never know. you have so what can you do here

there's a list of sacred cows the AR-15 is sacred by some people the police are sacred by some people like you you can't have

this kind of bothers me when you can't have open and honest conversations about things you can't talk about it without people emotionalized like getting emotional and getting offended about stuff this is a real problem And I've said this before on the podcast, and the most powerful fucking quote I've ever heard was from Albert Einstein.

And the quote is that the most inconceivable thing about the universe is the fact that the universe is in fact conceivable. So the hardest thing for us to understand about all those stars and quasars and planets and black holes in the sky is that the math can check out. Like you can figure it out. There are answers. And to me, that's the hardest thing about being a person right now. So many of these problems are looked at as these granted intractable eternal struggles. And they're not. Like this is dead kids

We can't care It's like it's really think about it man Think about where we are Like just like you know what I'm saying It goes back to what we've said before The people who have the power don't care Unless it directly affects them And I feel you on everything that you're saying

They should care They should want to care But they don't because it doesn't directly impact them So what's the answer? When we talk about policing or we talk about guns and the sort of death that we're sort of expected to deal with, like, what's the answer? I don't know. You got human. It's what they did sitting outside or sitting in the hallway, too scared because he had an AR-15, they were putting themselves above everything else.

They were being selfish. They were being human. And at the end of the day, we were taught that these police officers, we're taught that these police officers. officers are heroes. I'm not saying that they don't do heroic things sometimes, but they're talking to their heroes and their these saviors, but at the end of the day, they're human, and they're going to put themselves over you.

I just saw a Law and Order episode that just covered this. Police officers, somebody got shot inside of a club, and the police officers was right there, but was too scared to saw the gunman with his gun and was too scared to do anything because he wanted to be able to go home to his family. So I don't know what the answer is. I don't, you did something the second there a second ago. And it's interesting, you said, I'm not saying the police officers don't do heroine things.

I'm not a guy who likes to think in absolutes. I try not to. I'm being pushed into this weird, fuck the police at every cost. They're all fucked. I don't give a fuck about them. And I just don't give a fuck. Like, I don't, there's,

you're never going to see. You're never going to see examples of great policing, right? And even when I see an example of great policing, you'll remember the guy that was rapping with the kids. Yes, I remember how. The fucking guy that was rapping with the kids. Rapping, they doing their whole thing. I'm on here.

I'm reposting the nigger. He pulling up on a kid. They're doing Gucci main, the whole fucking nah, whatever. What, in two years, this motherfucker didn't fuck somebody up. It's on tape, on camera. Like I don't I don't want to make the caveat anymore of that there are some good ones. I'm not saying that you were doing that. No, no, no.

I'm just saying I'm saying that that seemed like something. I'm not coming to you. I was trying. Yeah, yeah. I'm saying that this seemed like that seemed like the responsible thing to do at a time, at a specific time. Now I'm kind of like fuck them. I feel like I can do. The reason I did it that way is because I can acknowledge that there are good things that

have been done. But that doesn't take away from me to say it's really messed up. And it's a huge issue. And overall, it's a bigger problem. Like, from where I'm sitting right now, bad does seem to outweigh the good. But I can still say, yeah, I'm sure they're heroic things that are done. But I don't want to say it in an absolute way, like nothing. But there's a huge issue.

And I'm going to talk about the issue more than I'm going to talk about the positive. So the bad, I don't even know, it's kind of like what Chelsea was talking about with the NFL. Chelsea's Stark Jones, Blackball is the podcast. I don't even know if I can say incident for incident or whatever the thing. the bad outweighs the good because I don't have the data. But what I can't say is this. The inability or the unwillingness of police departments nationwide to confront the societal awakening and the shift and the discussion that's being had around policing, their unwillingness in good faith to talk to people to have this conversation.

and admit that we're seeing significant failures and breakdowns everywhere. Yeah. Means you can't shoot them no bail. And it's the same thing with the gun people. I know a lot of gun motherfuckers. I do. I know a lot of gun motherfuckers. The most cowardly thing about the two-way sort of talking points now is that they're unwilling to,

even admit that there is a problem. Absolutely. Or they do admit that there's a problem. They won't act on it. So the reason I say the bad outweighs the good, because if the system is bad, then it's bad. But it's just like, is America a racist country?

Right? Right there now? Well, I'm just saying, you could say, no, but. Or you could say yes, because you're not saying that every, every single thing in America is right. racist, but what it was founded on, why it started, how it was implemented, was racist.

So you can say the same thing about policing. My thing is, if you, if someone asked you, is there a problem with police in America? And you say, yes. Okay, so what I, you know, is, go back to the. No, no, I'm not, I'm not debating you at this point. We can go back to the whole is, should she have said, like now people, by the way, y'all, by the way, y'all fucking me up with my White House people. White House people

I got white house people and I was like hey man You don't like I know they're mad at you It's fine It's just look Last thing I say about that little Addendum Addendum alert Little addendum is

I just want there to be a difference Between Tim Scott and Kammo Harris on the question You know There was in how they answered it though As a whole No there was no there was no there was No you know what Let me be honest

There was I just need the yes I know, I know what you want. I just need the, because even if you, you know what I'm saying? Even if you ninja that bitch, and you, I just don't want to hear the know.

I know what you want. Okay, look, love you. Hey, love you. I'd vote for you. You know what I mean? But just, last thing I'll say is like, I don't like, I don't root for politicians.

I don't like any of them. None of them. Politician does a thing. Last guy, last politician, dick I held. was Obama. So the last dick I held. I'm not holding no more dicks.

No more dicks. No, not, I'm not, I'm not, no, no, I'm not, I'm not, no, no, I'm not, I'm not dick holding for nobody. Because they all, they, get out of here, nigger. Like they is, like, you know what I'm saying? It was like, I'm not, I'm not dick holding no more politicians. So if you're, if you're, if you got, if you're, if you're a fan of somebody, I'm a piss you off.

Um, um, because I want to know, you know, I'm getting cranky. Let's get to pink white. I'm sorry. I'm getting cranky in my old age. Let's get to Pequoise. All right. Donnie, do you want to intro this topic? Donnie, you intro this topic because you couldn't fucking live with it.

All right. It looks like Ben Affleck was sitting down with Kendrick Perkins. And I guess I'll let y'all judge whether or not he's putting on a black cent or if this is the Ben Affleck we know from Pearl Harbor. Hold on. Outside of me, right? Who is your favorite Celtic? There's nobody outside of you.

You and my top 10. The 10 of my top 10 is you. 09, 10, Kendrick Perkins. I put up against anybody in 2K. If I take you, come on, come on, man. I guess I don't really know how Ben Affleck talks on a regular basis. I got to hear it again. Let's hear it again.

One more time, Donnie. Let's hear it. Let's see. Let's give a nigger percentage to this. Let me hear it again. There's nobody outside of you. You in my top 10. Oh, that was the part. Start it over again.

Start over again. There's nobody outside of you. You and my top ten. The ten of my top ten is you. 09, 10, Kendrick Perkins. I put up against anybody. Been doing it. Been doing it.

It was the first as I started off. Been doing it. Do we have Ben Affleck from anywhere else? Give me Ben Affleck from when he's on. Oh, is he? Bill better ask him about it. Bill got to ask him about this. Hey, Bill, Bill.

Is it in person? I think they recorded five years. Yeah. All right. Look, let me hear Ben Affleck from the time that he was on real time with Bill Marr. Just look it up. He was chiding Bill Maher about being an Islamophode. This is a very popular clip.

You should be able to get it very easily. And the reason why I'm using this clip is because I want an example of him being woke and being a great guy. I also want him with his dander up. I want angry white guy. Okay. See if the same voice comes out. See if the same voice comes out. All right.

Okay. Okay. Here we go. You know, we are endowed by our forefathers with an ailable life. Like, all men are created. No. Ben, we have to be able to criticize bad ideas.

Of course we do. No liberal doesn't want to be as bad ideas. But is the mother load of bad ideas. Jesus. So we have, we have. That's just a fact. It's not a false to me. It is an ugly thing.

How about the more than a billion people who aren't fanatical, who don't punish women, who just want to go. Wait a second. Wait a second. Wait a second. Wait a second. Wait a second.

Wait a second. There's too much cross talk to really get it there. Do we have another Ben Affleck that we can do? Yeah, actually just sent me something. Hold on a second. Yeah. The first time I stepped behind the camera as a director, I felt terrified and exhilarated.

I both had found the thing that I really, really wanted to do with my life and that it might kill me. Okay, now play the other one. I play the other one. Who is your favorite Celtic? There's nobody outside of you. You're in my top ten. The ten of my top ten is you.

Okay, I have a theory. Go ahead. I have a theory. This happens sometimes to white people. Go ahead. Ben Affleck's voice is blackening. And it's happening naturally. This happens sometimes.

Give me another example. Billy Bob Thornton. I just interviewed him recently. I didn't hear a blackening of the voice. So Billy Bob Thorne has always had a Southern draw. Absolutely. But as the voice gets, as the age goes up, sometimes that voice can blacken a little bit.

Okay, Ben's not Southern. Ben's not Southern at all. He's not, I'm not saying it's, but whatever's happening to his voice, because he sounds, those two interviews were a little later. And then the other one was from some years ago. I think he sound black and both of them. I have a, I think, I think he was feeding off of, this is devil's advocate.

He was either putting on a black accent or he was feeding off of Kendrick Perkins's Alabama accent. He was listening to Kendrick Perkins and, you know, sometimes. I am a person who can hear somebody's talk a certain way. And sometimes I reflect that. you talk the way they talk. Yes. And I have noticed that like over some time

or I might, if someone's like, okay, okay, okay, okay. Sometimes I'll say like, okay, okay, okay, I kind of pick it up, it gets in my ear. So maybe that's what was happening. But his voice did not sound the same. Now, I'm not going to say that. Okay.

It was not a blackening. But I'm going to agree with Donnie. I think he just took on a little bit of perk there. So let me ask you this. If Ben Affleck, And did you say Alabama accent? Where is Kenji Park is from? Texas.

From Texas. By bad. I just want to correct. Race is on your part, Don. This is, wow. If, in fact, Ben Affleck is, you know, turn it up a perk a little bit. What is, I mean, what's the? People get excited sometimes and he's like, what did he say?

Why don't? Do we ever get excited to talk like white people? Only, I feel like this doesn't work the other way. No, it doesn't work the other way. No, it doesn't work the other way. I don't think white people have voices that you aspire to sound like. I might sound more Southern talking to a southerner. So, Ben's good with us right now.

It's not that extreme. It's not that, you know, we're not, I'm fucking curious, right? It's funny. It's funny to me. I mean, I fuck with Ben. It's not that big of a deal. I think it's funny. It's noticeable, but I think he's just reacting.

But this is another situation to where. the person matters because it's like, the Iggy Azalea thing drives the fuck. And it should. And it should. The Iggy Azalea thing drives the fuck. But Ben, you know,

he got a little turnt up with Kendraultz. It's like, whatever. Like, you know who I feel like would do this? Who? Adele. Nah,

if Adele did it, I'm good with it, though. But I feel like she would do. She already did it. Yeah. She would do something like this. With the whole fucking,

she had the whole Jamaican flag around her torso. She was going crazy. Probably. A certain way. Oh, my God. She was a, You could tell that she was a...

So you don't know you are. Oh, my God. There's no way that she was dressed up like that and she wasn't with that. I'm the original Jamaican Dandada. I kill for fun. Ah. It bumber card your ass cut. Is it okay?

Is it okay for you to do that? That's from belly. Is it okay? That's from belly. I've seen the movie. Is it okay? Surprising. It's like I kill for fun, huh?

Who are all around with me? Is it okay for you to do the accident? Who are all wrong with me? Huh? I kid them my original rude boy Killed for fun Rest in peace man We lost ox

Ox dot rest of me I killed for fun Ah Who are up I kid you I ross glad huh That's time

That was Adele It's time That was a Dell In the Notting Hill Collin That was a Dell I swear to God That's what the Dell

was doing The Dell was over there Like Who all up with a deal Huh Fire and the rain Not. Okay. That's it.

That's it. That's it. Who on rummed with Adel? That's not the, if you're winning Rome, you know? Oh. When in Rome, what? Winning Rome, you know what I'm saying? Winning Rome, you, Adele.

So Adele goes down to Baton Rouge and starts talking like you were in the podcast? That's Winning Rome. Niggles would love it. Oh my God. and come down there walking across that dirty track at two o'clock and flat bitch plop life bitch I oh bitch ass nigger what I'm plop life B oh B oh B oh ho ad nigga oh ho ad bitch ass nigger oh ho ad bitch ass nigger bet that nigger I bet that bad rude nigga that's that southwest that okay uh take d cups off but do not stop

learning I am van lathan junior bitch amazing.