Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Authentic Abs, the Big Beautiful Bill and a Constitutional Crisis

Episode Date: July 1, 2025

Van and Rachel are joined by Columbia Law School professor Jamal Greene to help break down the recent rulings from the SCOTUS. (0:00)  Intro (00:27)  The morality of stealing  (24:47)  Jury deliberates in Diddy trial (31:34)  Knicks considering Dawn Staley? (36:11)  Zohran Mamdani update (53:21)  The Big Beautiful Bill (1:11:05)  Jamal Greene joins the show (1:33:21)  Glaze of the Week (1:39:08) Drake and the ‘abs’ debate (1:50:59)  Bachelorette fight breakdown Host: Van Lathan Jr. and Rachel Lindsay Guests: Professor Jamal Greene Producer: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, no, lawyers. Landloat Lovers, what is up? Our learning is on is Ivan Lathen, Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. You're back. I got to tell you. Oh, don't be excited. Don't be pleased.

Please that you're back. Yeah. You literally looked at me and cut your eyes. I'm upset about some of these. I'm losing faith in humanity. Van put up a tweet. Now he's obsessed with the comments and what they're saying, before we got on the show.

Not obsessed with the fact that I'm back. It feels good to be back because I was getting ready. I was like, wow, it feels like the first day of school. I'm losing faith in everyone. I'm serious. I feel like you do this once a year, maybe twice. No. Maybe three times.

It's more durable. Like it's building. It's like it's getting bigger and bigger. Something's happening. Well, because of your tweet or just like politics. Just overall. People do. suck. I'm losing faith. So if you guys don't know what the question was, the question is,

is it acceptable to steal if you're hungry? You're hungry. Is it acceptable to steal? Because you know where I stand. Of course. But this is my thing. This is kind of what I don't understand. What? I'll ask you this before we get into the quick hitters. So I get the conversation. Okay. People are saying, no, stealing is ungodly. I get it. Oh, is that what they said? It's ungodly. Well, I'm talking to a lot of bleak, black pentas.

Okay. Black people. And they say stealing is ungodly. Mm-hmm. Do you believe that stealing is ungodly? Is it one of the ten commandments? Yeah, that's not stealing. Oh, okay. Sorry.

So witty of. They put some good rules in there. So witty. So obviously it's ungodly if it's one of the ten commandments. But that's really not my first thought. My first thought wasn't that it was a sin. Yeah. But do you know what else is ungodly?

Letting people be hungry. I don't understand. I can't wrap my mind around stuff anymore because like, you know, it very clearly states in El Bilbo, the Bible, Jesus very clearly states when you let people starve, you let me starve. when you let people live without shelter, that is me. I am the least of them. When you have done these things to the least of them,

you have done them to me. So it's very clear that people should be fed and provided for and housed and all of that. And if you don't care about them or you don't feed them, if you don't clove them, if you don't do those things for them, then that is ungodly. But that part of the ungodliness, we just don't care about. That's not true. Okay. It's the same thing with the squatters.

And we're inching our way back to that. I have this exact same arguments that I had there. So I won't dip into it. But just because I don't think you should steal doesn't mean that. that I'm not very bothered and upset by people who are starving, who can't feed themselves, who can't feed their children, who can't feed their families. I'm obviously bothered by that,

but I don't think that the means should be, will just take anything that you want. That's just the thing. But it's the same argument I made before. And so you're surprised that in your comments section, people are more so on the side of what I'm saying is it's wrong to steal. But to equate that means someone else or me saying it's wrong to steal means we don't care or we're not disturbed by hunger. People who are hungry, I mean, that's wrong too.

I'm trying to litigate this in real time. Mm-hmm. Because the questions are intertwined. If I was to say, is it wrong to steal? then that is a big umbrella term. That means, is it wrong to run on a car lot and steal a car? Is it wrong to joyride? Is it wrong to just go, hey, I want something.

I can't afford it. I'm going to take it. There's a societal pact that we've made that you shouldn't do that. It's because it would create chaos. And it's a slippery slope. Where does it end? And it comes from a moral on high. You're taking from somebody else.

And then when you get into the, to me, the overall theory of stealing, that is interesting to me because the largest group of people that are being stolen from to me are the poor, are the middle class, are the working people. But the question isn't, is it wrong to steal? It's not the question. Okay. The question is, if you are hungry and you cannot provide for yourself, is it wrong? to take something in that particular situation. Though that reframes the morality. You don't consider that stealing, basically.

It's not stealing to you, so you're changing the definition of it. Because you keep saying, and I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just listening to how you're framing it. They're not stealing, right? Because it almost changes the intent. They're taking something in order, because they are without. It's like the intention. When you steal something, the intention is bad.

Right? When you take because you're needy, right? Is that kind of where you are on that? Because you're changing the word. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Stealing. By definition, it is what it is. For example, when I look at young men, young black men

that are making the decision to get involved in criminal lives, I don't think that there is some type of more. moral contagion that is in our culture that makes us want to be criminals. I don't. I think the decisions, poor decisions, and they are poor decisions, are the result of a choice matrix and a choice matrix that comes from social engineering. Meaning, if you put a bunch of people in a fucked up situation where there is lead in the paint, the water is fucked up, the job market is depressed.

They don't have access to good schools. They don't have access to good housing. They don't have access to transportation. Where upward mobility is not something that is that realistic. But then a black market economy comes into that place that is not beholden to the other systems, right? Really, it's a part of the other systems. It's a necessary part of the other systems.

It's probably given to those people on purpose to feed other parts of those other systems. But you're asking them to maintain purity in a situation where almost all the decisions are bad or super hard or anti-humanist in a way. You're saying, hey, I know that you're poor. I know that you can't get work. I know that you don't have any wealth.

I know that you don't have any, but do the right thing. And after a couple of generations of watching them do the wrong thing, you go, you know what, these people are born bad. They're born bad. They don't have the wherewithal to make decisions that are positive for them or for their communities. And this is after purposefully disenfranchising their ancestors, stripping them of their wealth. all it is comes back to you are born bad.

You can't make decisions that make for a good society. You can't do it. You're a deviant. Put you in jail, lock you up. You're more worth more to us in jail, producing for us in jail, and doing all that stuff than you are in college or in medical school or as a barber or anything like that. Then that gets to get packaged and politicized and all that. that. And when I look at that, I go, well, I know those guys. I don't think those guys are bad.

I think that I look at those guys and those women in places like that. And I go, I know them. So I know that they are not, it's not the answer. It's the question. And if you change the question, you get different answers. And we seem to know that about our community. We seem to be, I mean, not all of us, I guess. I guess there are some people that go, there's just something defective with us. You hear black people being so hard. Oh, man, this is us.

You know how we act. We do all of this. We hear so much of that. But at the same time, we know that there's nothing inherently wrong with us. But we do wrong things. Statistically, we do wrong things because of societal influences. But then if I come back down,

down and I make it a little intimate and I go, forget about a system. One person making one decision because of a society that deals in scarcity, that commodifies scarcity. Can't have too much food, right? Like, you don't want to have, you don't want to give, you don't want to have, like we're talking about housing. The housing thing I've been looking in so much, some of this, so much is scarcity of housing. You don't want to have too much housing. You don't want everybody to have a house. You're living in a society where you don't want everyone to own a home. You don't. You're living in a society where you don't want everybody.

There have to be winners and losers. There have to be people that have all of this stuff and people that don't have it. Like, in order for there to be Jeff Bezos, they have to be homeless people, right? Not Bezos. Bezos. Bezos. I thought you were doing it on purpose. Is it?

Which one is it? Jeff Bezos. But don't people say Bezos now, too? Never heard it, but start it. Don'ty? I've only heard Bezos, but... I say, I've said it a lot, and I've said Bezos, but I said Bezos. He's getting married.

He is married. Oh, Daddy. What do you think about that marriage? I could care less. You don't give a fuck. At all. And I love how so many people are, like, I haven't seen one positive thing reported about it. I mean, in traditional media, sure.

But as far as, like, social media, maybe it's my algorithm. Everybody hates it. I think it's ridiculous. Even the Italians hated. The Italians? Yeah, they've got... Oh, yeah, they were mad, yeah. I saw that.

I heard that Tom Brady was trying to hit Sid and Sweeney at the... Another thing I could care less about. What if you get to? I love that you were... I don't know them? You don't care if they smash? No, I don't. I could care less.

I didn't like it. Why? I don't think it's right. Why? These are two grown adults. They're two grown adults, but I don't think she should let him hit. Okay. Well, we don't know what went down.

at Bezos's wedding. We know they're married. We know, I don't know. If she's going to get into the letting people hit game, it shouldn't be with him. Don't let him hit, man. I'm straight up. I'm hating on Tom Brady.

But why are you hating? Because I don't think, first of all, for her, like, you know, it's time for her to do her little thing, man. Keep it to her era. You know what I'm saying? Don't let him. He's too old for him.

For her? Not just too old, but too seasoned. Tom Brady like a piece of beef jerky that has been around and seasoned with different type of seasonings for a while. He's also considered the goat. So for her, that might be something, it might be a prize for her. Who knows? We don't know what her standards are. I don't even think it's that.

You think she's giving up the pussy because he threw 50 touchdowns? Every, I don't think she's doing anything. you have created an entire narrative around two attendees at a wedding. I've heard this. This is what I've heard. What else did you hear about what went down in Europe?

Keep going. That's the, that's that. What did you hear about Paris Fashion Week? What you hear about? I've heard some stuff about that, by the way. What you hear? Ha, ha, ha, daddy. But this is, but this is.

You're so foolish. I've heard some stuff. You're so full of. I've heard some stuff. You're so foolish. But, you know, but back to it. And so I think what fascinates me more about this conversation than anything.

Because contrary to popular opinion, I do have morals. I don't think anybody thinks you don't. I think sometimes people think I don't have morals. I do have morals. The biggest thing... You have a bleeding heart. Nobody would deny you of that.

Well, but this is the moral thing, though. Right? Like, this is how I look at it. I'm not, because I'm also very immoral. Cheat, lie, bullshit, all of that stuff. But I'll say that, like, I genuinely care more about the person eating the food than I do about the supermarket or store getting stolen from. I think you say that more in the terms of these big corporations. Even small businesses.

But if it was a mom and pop grocery store, I don't think you would think the same way. That might be struggling to survive as a small business. It might have been passed now for generations. That might be struggling trying to source food for the growth. Like, I don't think, I think when you talk about it, you're talking about these conglomerates, which I understand. I'm not saying I agree with you, but I understand. It's the same thing when we were talking about. landlord tenant. It's these corporations

that buy out these places and then up charge, not for the person who might rent out the one condo that they have or whatever. Can I make, before we get off this, because it's very interesting conversation, go over to the Instagram.

Can I make one observation about that? I'll bring it back to the mom and pop store. I'll shout out my grandfather who passed away. He passed away. but actually, you know what, I don't shout him out. There's stuff that I learned. No shoutouts for him.

But he had a store back in the day. The store was, it was corner groceries. And, you know, I'm sure he dealt with people that are stealing, but he talked a lot about being entrepreneur, having a small black business. But let me say something about the small business part of this. I think of, and this, you guys, this is the way my brain works.

So a lot of people are going to go, this is a reach. Okay. All right. So reach alert. Put reach alert down there. Okay. Reach alert. What?

This is a reach, but this reach alert. This is the way my brain works. Yes, I am talking about big conglomerance. And overall, what I'm talking about is our relationship to capitalism and how we allow the structures of capitalism to shape our morality. So we let an immoral system that is, no different than what happens in a wild, where animals are engaged in beautiful violence for survival, right? We think that we have evolved past that, kind of,

because what really governs us is the same dog-eat-dog, big dick wins situation. And then that exists at the top, And then we are expected to maintain our morality because that actually serves their game and their goal. When you said small businesses, this is what I thought about. I thought about Eric Garner, George Floyd, and Latasha Harlins. A bottle of juice in 1991 or 1992, she was accused of stealing a bottle of juice. they struggle over the bottle of juice, she gets shot in the face.

She's dead. Eric Garner, it's a poverty crime, right? He's selling them. He's not stealing, but he's selling the cigarettes. It's poverty crime, like he's dead. George Floyd, counterfeit money, poverty crime. All those people are dead. To me, two of them of the police,

one of them is the store owner. They're dead because they threatened capital. That's what led to the interactions that killed them. Because to me, black people in America don't get protected by institutions like the police or economically or physically socially because we are not, we're not capital drivers. We're not, they protect the money. The money is what getting is getting protected. They're not saying don't steal. They're saying don't stop wealth accumulation.

They're saying they're not, the rules that we get for not stealing or don't interrupt the flow of business. Like don't interrupt the flow of business. It's really not about we're making it moral, which, but for them, it's like, don't come in here and interrupt the way that this goes. There's a flow of business that is supposed to work.

You grow and then you buy. We sell. We can't have you thinking that the things in here are stuff that you're supposed to have. The only way that you're supposed to have this stuff is if you make enough money to come by it. You're not supposed to have clean water. You're not supposed to have food. You're not supposed to have a house. There's no suppose.

There's nothing that as a human being you're supposed to have. The only way that you're supposed to get it is if you move throughout society in the that we say you're supposed to move. And then one day, you might be able to live in some place that has clean water. You might be able to have a nice neighborhood. You might be able to have all this other stuff. Because any of this other stuff that's going on, if we think you're selling cigarettes where you shouldn't be, if we think that you're stealing a bottle of juice, if we think

that you're passing, we'll kill you. And like, I think all of these things, and once again, I'm working this out in real time, All of these things are connected in a way. They are. I think all of these things are about our relationship to money, to capitalism, to the group or organization that picks winners and losers. And the older I get, the more plain it is and the more frustrated I get when, because I'm a part of it, right? I'm a part of it. I'm working here to make money.

I'm working here at a place with a CEO that's invested into all of these weird AI military shits and all of this kind of stuff like that, right? So I'm not pure or better than any of this stuff, but like we don't even see it. Like we, it's it's so well camouflaged that we don't even see it. Let me see your hand. What's wrong? Reach. Reach. You're reaching.

All right. But no, no, no. You're not wrong. You're not wrong. No, no, no, no. It's either I'm wrong. No, no, no. You're right.

It is all tied together. I mean, you have to mix it. When you're saying things like, you're not supposed to be here. You're not supposed to have those things. Yeah, that's a part of class. That's a part of race. It's all tied in there, you know?

I mean, it's the way when you brought up those three examples, it's not just tied to the mom and pop, which is where you started, which is why I said it was a reach. It's not just tied to the small. small business, it's tied to how they looked at those three black people. It's class. It's racism. Yeah, it's a form of capitalism where it threatened their business. So I understand what you're saying,

but it's also, it's all tied together with other things as well. So your, you're jumping off point was the small business, which is why I said it was a reach. But what you said makes sense in certain ways, too. So I'm not going to. No, we bring up the small businesses sometimes. And obviously, all of this type of deviance would affect a small business different than it would. the big chain. But, man, if I went into even some of the small business realities in these hoods, there are class differences, there are social differences, there are cultural differences that really it's a, it's a more intimate form of capitalism, right? It's like, but it's still capitalism. No, but what I mean is, and we can get off this, but what I mean is,

we used to go to a place in Baton Rouge on Gardier Lane called Rainbow Market. Gardier during that time was a completely black community. I mean, now they live in Lovita Loka. I like it. They don't ever play a soccer. My neighborhood. Back home has changed too. Yeah.

But the people that ran Rainbow were Asian. It was an Asian family. So none of us ran Rainbow. like we didn't have enough money or we didn't run rainbow. I mean, there were businesses in Gardia. There was Moher. Shout out to Mona.

There was others that Mohair. Go get your hair. But like, that was the place Moher. Shout out to Moher. But there was places, but like, no,

we didn't have the rainbow market. Like, we didn't. And you went around all different places in Baton Rouge. Like you'd see stores and different convenience stores. Mom and pops, but they weren't. aren't our stores.

So what I'm saying is that there was obviously capital that we weren't, we couldn't access. Or is either that or we didn't want to run our own stores. We didn't want to have financial freedom inside of our own communities. So look, I just, there's so much to it. But I don't know, man. I don't know. I'm, I'm, I'm, you're working it out in real time.

I am. I don't know what set you off this morning. I don't know what you saw. We're, we're going to get into the quick hitters. Let's go ahead. Let's move on. Like,

that was different pleasantries. Let's get into the, let's get into the quick hitters. I don't know what's happening to me. It's okay. Maybe you need to go to Europe. No, no,

no, no, no, no. You had a fantastic time the last time you were there. I did. Maybe you just, you need a, it's a wellness week coming up. Yeah, but. Even when I'm like forced to take wellness. They make us stay vacation.

But even when I went to Europe that time, we had a great time. It cost a shit ton of money. We had a great time. But I remember being in Santerini, like, looking at the dogs that were running around. Like, who are going to take care of these dogs, man? Actually, they do. Like, there's a lot of cats, too. Yeah.

And people feed the cats, whether it's tourists, whether it's homeless. Do people hug the cats? Cats need to hug. I touched a couple of cats when I was in. That sounds like so bad. I heard it as soon as I said it. As soon as us. This is why we're done with pleasant truth.

As soon as I said. Oh, father. Oh, you're such a child. Oh, father. Daddy, please. All right. Parents, baby. The playoffs are here.

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Ask your doctor about Trimphaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimfaya, including important safety information. The jury has officially begun the, this is a tough word, the deliberations. There we go. And Did he's sex trafficking trial? Deliberations? It's a lot of de Blah, blah, blah. It's a jumbly word.

They officially began them, though. And the judge spoke to the jurors this morning. He said that the evidence is the testimony and the exhibits. You are the sole and exclusive arbiters of the facts. He urged them to carefully look at each witness's credibility. The truth and importance of their testimony and size him or her up, you must decide. How is this going to go? I hope he's found guilty.

And I hope he goes to jail. Okay. Why is that? Because from what? I've followed in the case, and this isn't me getting caught up in the credibility necessarily of the witnesses or because, you know, I have this disdain for ditty or something like that. Or what I find one more. It's just from the testimony, it truly seems like he used, I don't know if it's just bad boy

enterprises or some other company through assistants, through bodyguards, through people who were employed through these companies, he used them to have, to get drugs, to have, for sex trafficking, the kidnapping, you know, the testimony of a couple of the witnesses with that. To me, it seems that there was this enterprise that truly was operating and, you know, committing certain felonies that, you know, add up to the RICO charge. That's just one thing. Yeah. It really does feel that.

way. I mean, from the intimidation, from the threats, I mean, you just take the Kid Cuddy case, not case, but take the Kid Cuddy testimony for what it is, why he did it, how he did it. That was Kid Cuddy's testimony. That was Capricorn. Is it Clark? That was Capricorn Clark's testimony. I mean, he truly used money, power, people to execute the things that he wanted to happen, whether they were, whether, in a, crimes in this case. I'll just say it that way. So I think he'll be,

so my hope is that justice is served. Oh. That's probably what I should say. I think they'll get him, we had Yoritina. I think they'll get him on, he's already, to me, they've already proven

transportation to engage in prostitution. They've already proven that to me. The sex trafficking in Noriko stuff, I've never been more confused on what that actually is than I am right now. I think we need a whole RICO lesson because the RICO was so obvious when you were dealing with like the Gambino family.

This was basically the RICO. John Gotti is not going to go kill somebody himself. He's not going to put his hand on a gun. When you become a copo and you have your own crew in the mafia, you're going to stop doing crimes. However, you've been, you've, are the mastermind of conspiracies in those crimes, meaning if one of your

underlings commits a murder that you ordered, or if a murder was committed in furtherance of your criminal enterprise, then you are responsible for it, changed the mafia, dispowered them, depowered them, should I say, in a lot of ways, because the hierarchy of organized crime was based on that. Cool. I guess it's the same thing with Doug. I guess it's the same thing with Diddy. I guess these crimes were committed in furtherance

of the criminal organization that would be known as Bad Boy or Combs Enterprises or whatever. But proving Rico against him seemed to be different in a way than it was with some of these other people that were running these criminal enterprises. Why do you say that? Because it's...

Some of the things are subject to the RICO and that some aren't. So some of the freakoffs are criminal freakoffs And then some freakoffs are not So in the case of a mafia guy It's like well some murders no Well actually that could be true There could be some murders that one of your underlings

Just did it Just did it and you didn't tell them to do it Or they're doing murders off on a I guess maybe every murder wouldn't be in it I guess it's the same thing It's if it was done under this enterprise If it was ordered. So if somebody had a lover's quarrel and, you know,

or got jealous and murdered someone, that's totally different. That's not on you, but that's right. So I guess it's kind of the same thing. So, huh, what I would say is the RICO, I just don't have any clue what's going on with it. The sex trafficking, it seems like they almost had to have proven that. So they almost had to have proven the same. Because if you get, because there are a couple of different counts,

if you get them on the one thing, the prostitution, The travel for engaging in the prostitution is one thing that got him on that. But it seems like if anything is true, for anything to be true, the sex trafficking has to be true. Like the sex trafficking has to be true if any of it is true. Because you have to be able to say that these people were doing stuff that they really didn't want to do because they were afraid of him or they were coerced by something else. I mean, that's essentially what Cassie and Jane Doe were testified. Yeah, well, yeah, he was using his power. So if you believe them, then he's done.

But if you don't believe them, then I guess. Well, that's one thing. Like kidnapping might not be there. But that, I mean, that's the thing. Is it conspiracy to kidnap? Is it a conspiracy to commit arson? Is it a attempt, you know, like there other, it's not just, oh, he physically did art the arson. It's was there a conspiracy to do it?

You know, like those are. Was there a conspiracy to do the arson? Didn't he just get super fucking pissed off and go over there and try to burn his neck? No, because he didn't. He didn't do it. He didn't do it. He had somebody else to it. He was the John God, he was a bad boy.

I don't see a way that Puff walks free. I don't see a way that it doesn't happen. I don't see a way. From what I've observed, I do not see a way that he walks completely free. But there are people who think that that's going to happen. Yeah. Oh, there's a lot of people who think that's going to happen because they read headlines. Yeah.

Right. Yeah. All right. Donnie, God damn it. Of course. The Knicks reportedly are considering South Carolina's Dawn Staley for their head coaching job. This comes from a report from Nix fan TV that says that the Nix have reached out to Dawn about the opening. And there's no clear indication on whether or not she's interested in it.

But I mean, what do you guys think about Coach Staley moving on to the NBA? Who was the source? Nix fan TV. It doesn't sound legit. But this is a source. It's a channel. If it doesn't sound legit, they are. They are.

They are a legit source. I'm saying it doesn't sound legit. Okay. It doesn't sound legit, but it is legit. Okay. It sure does it. It's a legit source. Listen, I bet they did reach out to her.

I mean, why would they not? She's an excellent coach. But I'm actually glad we've had her on now that this rumor is because this rumor is out here because I feel like we can speak to it. From everything that she said in the interview that we had with her conversation, I just feel like her calling and from everything that she said, she really holds very. holds value in the influence that she has on young people in their lives. And obviously NBA players are young too. But I just can't see her leaving college. I don't know.

I don't know her well. But just from that interview, I don't see it. I think she's really happy where she is. I don't know her at all. Yeah. But if the Knicks offered their head coaching position to her, she would almost have to take it. Why?

That is an immense, historical, ridiculously important moment to be able to seize. I'm not saying that. But is that worth it? Yeah. Okay. To me, for her to be the... Just to be offered is worth it.

Like, they offered it to me, and I still said no. I had the... I mean, she doesn't seem to be the type of person, and again, this is, I'm assuming... obviously all of this. Doesn't seem the type person who would do it for that reason. If she does it, it would be something more meaningful and deeply rooted,

then, well, I got to because they offered it to me. No, that's not what I. See, this is you, you, I didn't say that. I didn't say because it was a story. Because what I would say is, what I'm saying is, that opportunity is, number one, a competitive opportunity like no other, right? To compete in the greatest basketball league in the entire world, right? and coach the best players

and then bring yourself to that. Secondly, you are the first woman in major American sports history to be a head coach. This is a Jackie Robinson-like situation. This is breaking a barrier that it almost seems now eventually will be broken.

I remember I was on TMZ in 2011 and I said I didn't think that this would happen because of the culture of the players, the way that they view women and all the players that I knew. Things have actually changed. Things have actually changed. The respect for the women's game has changed

the respect for the minds, particularly the female minds, female basketball, Becky Hammond. That's who I thought would have been. I thought if it was anybody first, it was going to be Becky. Still could be, right? We don't know, still could be.

But this would be such a groundbreaking opportunity that I would think that if the Knicks had offered her is one thing to reach out and say hey, you know, kick the tires on it. But if the Knicks had offered it to her

to make her that type of historical figure, somebody has as competitive as she is, I don't know how she could turn it down. Yeah, and I wouldn't feel a certain way if she took it or she didn't. I'm just going off based off the conversation that we had. But at the time,

this wasn't even a possibility. So who knows? Who knows? I think it would be absolutely exciting. I think it's so great for women's sports for her to get that position. I'm such a fan. I don't care either way what she would decide, but I don't know. I just don't think she'd take it. All right. Well, I don't know. I don't know if she would take it, but I would be very disappointed if she didn't take it. I hope this is a real rumor, though. Because the Knicks are bringing back Taylor Jenkins and Mike Brown.

Who you want to bring? Shout out to Mike Brown. You want to bring Mike Brown? Mike Brown's not getting head coaching job. Whatever. Whatever. If you want to bring them back for a second interview, that's fine. If you want to do something, do something, man, pop that shit off and put Dawn Staley in that motherfucker and get these players going. All right, let's go. Let's do little politics. Politics, Donnie.

Let's do it. Zoran Mamdani. Let's check back in on that. Yeah. The presumptive Democratic nominee from mayor in New York, he was on Meet the Press this weekend with Kristen Welker. And he had this to say. Yeah. Shift the tax burden from overtaxed homeowners in the outer boroughs to more expensive.

homes in richer and whiter neighborhoods. Explain why you are bringing race into your tax proposal. That is just an description of what we see right now. It's not driven by race. It's more of an assessment of what neighborhoods are being undertaxed versus overtaxed. We've seen time and again that this is a property tax system that is inequitable. It's one that actually Eric Adams ran on saying that he would change in the first hundred days. He's since sought to defend it and lost at every juncture in court.

And I understand you're saying we're simply. describing the types of neighborhoods that would see these increase in taxes. And yet, by invoking race, do you run the risk of potentially alienating key constituents? I think I'm just naming things as they are. And ultimately, the thing that motivates me in this is to create a system of fairness. It is not to work backwards from a racial assessment of neighborhoods or our city. Rather, it's to ensure that we actually have an equal playing field. And right now what we see with the property tax system is one that is overtaxing a number of New Yorkers.

taxing others and an inability of political will to resolve that. So no plans to change that language on your website. The focus here is to actually ensure a fair property tax system. What do you think? This, you wanted to tap in to back with your boy, Mom, Domney. Now that's a tongue twister, Donnie. Mom Donnie. Deliberate is worse.

Mom Danny. You know why I want to tap back in? Because the landlord lovers are coming for him. So listen to Leader Jeffries Okay When they asked Akeem Jefferies To

endorse Disappointed in him Yeah Like really Okay Donnie played Really soured on him To ask them

Whether or not he would have Endorse I'm Donnie Donnie Donnie Donnie And this is what he said Let's start with the big news Leader Jeffreys

Out of your hometown town. Momdani, you won a big victory. Have you endorsed him yet? I have not. We had a conversation on Wednesday morning where I congratulated him on the campaign that he ran, a campaign that clearly was relentlessly focused on the high cost of living in New York City and the economy. He outworked. He out communicated and he out-organized the opposition, and that's clearly why he was successful. So what's holding you back from endorsing him right now? We don't really know each other well.

Our districts don't overlap. I have never had a substantive conversation with him. Hi, my name is Hakeem Jeffries, and I'm an A-PAC puppet. And that's stopping me from endorsing Mom Dani. I'm Hakeem Jeffries, and I am a force for the status quo in the Democratic Party. And I actually don't want to shake up. and pivot to a populous message of affordability and humanistic equality in the party

because there's too much weight that I have to carry for the same old good old boys that have bogged the party down in listlessness and weakness for the past generation. Who do you think he will endorse somebody it's not going to be Mom Donnie

I mean Maybe but do you think he'll endorse Cuomo Or Adams Well do we know for certain that Cuomo is running I know that I could have sworn I saw he said he was running I saw something that said he might still do it But I don't know for certain if Cuomo is going to be in the race

If Hakeem Jeffries endorses Cuomo Actually you know what I think I think that if Cuomo does run if Cuomo or Adams does run, I think that Jeffries will just sit it out and try not to endorse anyone. Because endorsing Cuomo for leader Jeffries

at this point would be such a fucking kick in the nuts. Yeah, it would be bad. To so many people in his city that have spoken and endorsed a candidate that is standing up for affordability, a candidate that is standing up for the lives of average working New Yorkers and it's working, it's cutting through and getting to people. Yeah.

And for him to do that, it would say more than just like letting it play out and not endorsing anyone. True. But I don't know how long you can sit on what he just said. Because even we're sitting here looking at it and it's very obvious you can sift through it

and understand exactly what the underlying issue is, which you pointed out. I don't know how long you can play dumb. This was an, this was a, I don't really know. I don't know him. Our districts don't overlap. Come on. How much longer can he's going to be in front of them in front of somebody again who's going to ask him the question and he's going to have to give an answer. And I think that that's really going to put his feet to the fire as this race as we get closer to the actual election of mayor, he's going to have to say something because your city has spoken. They want change. They want progress. They want a fresh face. They want something new. Are you going to align yourself with that or are you going to align yourself with the old regime?

And I think it will hurt him when he's up for re-election again. He's going to have to do something. He got away with it this time. He won't a second time. Well, it depends on who he'll be running against. And that's where we come in. There is a hesitation here from the old guard of the Democrats to embrace this. And look, this is a thing, guys.

This is the deal. This is the deal. I get it. When I say I get it, I mean, I really understand. understand. We've talked about it. Right. You are in a battle between one party that you don't really want to vote for and then another party that you can't vote for. You black Republicans out there, I don't understand how you do it. But I don't understand how you vote for the party that wants to take black history out of schools, the party that wants black kids to drink fucked up water. Like, and you can say whatever you want,

the reality is that there were initiatives put in, I'm never going to forget this, initiatives put in by the Biden administration, executive order, put in by the Biden administration, to progress environmental justice in black communities, and Trump got rid of it, woke overreach to explore why things like, Flint and Jackson, Mississippi happen. Not even learning the lessons from

those places, right? Then you have the situation with the people, the water in Alabama. When you're looking at this and you're saying, the Trump administration is saying no to clean water for black people. They're saying no to black history.

They're talking about DEI as if it's this sin that promotes niggers to places that they don't belong. All that. So all of y'all had to vote for, hey, man, y'all, y'all must really be keeping your eyes on the taxes and whatever else. Y'all must really not, I can't fucking do it, right? But then you have the Democrats that are so strangled by corporate

cronyism and their allegiances to certain foreign governments that they cannot see the forest for the trees. They will not win with any message other than the listless, impotent message that they have been giving to people for the last 10 years or so. And it's like, what the fuck is going on? I mean, Joe Biden was able to win, and we've seen the Democrat, We've seen stuff, but I'm like, this is it. This is the way you do it.

Maybe not everyone. You can't wholly pivot to the AOC Zundi. Maybe you can't. But don't they have to go, yo, it's a new player up here. He hooping. He's getting buckets. People are responding to it. Why?

Yeah. Like, why is a question that should be explored. This seems to have some excitement behind it. It has momentum behind it. Why is that? And then how do we capture that and bring that to a national level or even to a regional level in regards to Congress? Like that's what I don't understand. But to your point, I mean, I guess I do understand it because it is holding on to an old regime, holding on to power, holding on to certain support from certain groups, holding on to money in corporations.

I understand it. but is it more important to you to hold on to that and to lose and to keep giving us the same talking points that at this point mean nothing? It's like, wah, want, wah, wah, wah, wah. Or is change more important? Is being for the people more important for you? I'm probably answering my own question or as I'm saying this, but that's what it feels like.

Even the answer for Jeffries is like, I mean, and maybe this is what he was trying to say. maybe he was trying to say, hey, I want a better understanding of this guy before I endorse him. Maybe. Maybe that's what he's trying to say. Which is fair. Which is fair. That would be fair.

Maybe the term socialism throws him off, Democratic Socialists. But when you listen to him talk and we'll go back to the clip that we played earlier, it's not just that he has a salient answer for almost every question he's asked. Might not be an answer that you like, but he started through. But it's also that he refuses to capitulate on what his worldview is. He refuses to get scared, at least thus far, and say, hey, no, I didn't really mean why. He goes, no, the way that you describe these places, these places are havens and headquarters for whiteness. And that is why these disparities exist.

Now, you might not want me to say that, but that's the truth. not making the motherfucker into Martin Luther King Jr. I'm just saying despite saying that, and I don't have any problem with the question. Some people did. I don't have any problem with the question. The question is very fair. But despite doing that,

he goes on to win really in a historic fashion and we can't even get any excitement from the brass in the... It's like... They're scared. I think they feel threatened. I think they feel threatened about...

I mean, some people could say that's why David Hogg was pushed out. I know they say it was a, he didn't win fairly or whatever. There was a technicality. But some people, they're pushing, we're seeing disagreements within the party. And that's only going to grow.

But it puts us in a no-win scenario. Of course. Because the no-win scenario that we're in is that there's a certain group of people that straight-up loyalty, not to the left, but to the Democrats, as seen as legitimately an apocalyptic opinion to have. Because it could be,

it could be that if cooler heads don't get into the White House, if decorum, the whole fucking country could be lost on politeness. It could be. But is it politeness or is it selfishness? No, what I mean is that like the fact that, Donald Trump has injected this corrosive political discourse into America. Could legitimately be that, it could have been this entire time that, because it certainly wasn't equality that was holding an America together.

It certainly wasn't fairness that was holding an American together. Sure, sure, sure. It could have been for this entire time that it was decorum and politeness. the quorum I'll agree with that we're actually holding the country together and because he's shredded that you might if we get an attitude to where it's like

hey fuck the whole thing and fuck you and fuck you and fuck you and fuck you we're seeing people say fuck you in very violent, vicious ways is that not the right? And that's what I say when when people when Trump started running for

the presidency and he and MAGA came apart there was a break between Republicans and MAGA. And what did they do? They all came together and just said, we're going to support this. That's not happening on the other side. And I'm not comparing Mumdani to MAGA.

I'm just saying it's a rise in something new. It's a change. It's going against the grain. It's what people, people, it's, it's, I'm not giving MAGA any credit, but I would say with him, it's listening to what people want and change. the ways of the past. Obviously, you know, I don't want to give any credit

because you guys took what I said about Candace and spun it a million different ways and made with cream out of it. But what I will say is that, well, first of all, let's call a spade to spade. Mondani won a mayoral primary in New York City, which is very significant. It's very significant.

But the MAGA movement It was a C to Shining Sea political revolt against the Republican establishment. We're not quite there yet. We're not. Okay. And now you could also argue that one of the reasons why we're not there on the left is because there was a revolt against the revolt by the Democratic establishment. Yeah, we're not like them. Well, well, I mean, it's like the Bernie people and all of that stuff, the AOCs that tried to come up and maybe re-center.

political thought on the left that there was a revolt from the Democratic power base that silenced those people and it was more effective than the Jet Bush's, the traditional Republican neocons that wanted to snuff out the fire of MAGA

and just couldn't do it because Walmart was popping in Tallahassee on a Thursday night with MAGA shit. They just fucking couldn't do it. Right? So I don't know, but it seems like the Democrats need to let this.

happen. They need to kind of let there be some new blood. Even if it's not on the same level as what we saw on the right, they need to let some new blood come into the party. Yeah. And listen to the people, the people of New York said no Cuomo, no Cuomo, no quamow. No retread, recycled, old abusers that lied to us. No more that. We're done with the name recognition thing. of course he could then go on to win the mayor of the election and they didn't really say that. So who knows? I'm on fucking fired

I'm fucking fed up, Rachel. Yeah. I should go back. I should go back. I hate it. I'm sorry, guys. I apologize. I'm fucking fed up, man. And we haven't even gotten it to like the big

ugly bill that they're now calling it. No, I'm just saying. we have, Donnie's got it, but I'm saying we haven't even gotten into that. We haven't even gotten into these Supreme Court rulings that came out. There's so much. This is just frustration from, that's just building on being black in this

country. You know, in the Democrat. In this country. Even though we're independence now. Donnie, that's what I was going to ask. Did y'all want to take a break from politics for a minute? No, because that's some that's the fucker. Just just fucking, let's just get all out of the way so that

we can have a little fun on the back half of the podcast. Sounds like a plan. It's fucking, fucking bill. Fucking do it. The bill. Lawmakers right now are debating the big beautiful bill. They're on the Senate floor as part of a marathon process that they're calling a boked orama.

GOP leaders still need to firm up support from a few holdouts. Those holdouts are Ron Johnson, Rand Paul, and Tom Tillis, who also just announced that he is not going to seek re-election next year, which is a pretty big deal. So what do you guys think about what's happening right now on the Senate? Tom Tillis got kicked in his balls. Do you think Ton Tillis should fight to stay? Okay, because this goes back to what I was when I was on you about the Candace Owens. And I was like, I'm not giving, you know, Candace anything different.

When I brought up Liz Chaney, Liz Cheney stood up against the regime, right? They kicked her out. Tom Tillis is doing, doing the same thing. He's voting, no. They're not going to change his mind. He's thinking about his constituents. He's finding his voice and standing up in a way that he should have done a long time ago, which is why great now. But again, I'm not going to give you credit.

You voted for Heggseth. You know, you were one of those people who we thought maybe you would turn. Obviously, it didn't all fall on him. I'm just saying you voted because the Trump threat and the Trump bullying and you thought if you just fall in line, everything would be okay. I guess this is the last straw for you. and Trump has already saying things on truth social. Tom Tillis is like, I'm out anyway, do whatever you want. There are people saying that they think he should stay because, oh.

Cam likely. Can I'm likely. Does it even say that anymore? It did. It says that shit with mine. I apologize. It's Tom Tillis. It's Tom Tillis.

Help me up, man. Tom Tillis, some people think, some people are saying, now that you've had this change of heart when it comes to this issue, that you should stay. You found your voice. You're speaking out against Trump, against the party. You should stay and fight within. Other people are like, get out.

Let them private somebody else. I'm on the ladder because I have no confidence that you would fight in the way that you should because this is the only thing that you seem, in my opinion, to be on the right side of. You said he's been kicked in the balls. Right. And it's nuts.

I will say. I do think that there is some. effectiveness. Is that a word? Yeah. Is effectiveness a work? I don't know why it sounded wrong coming out of my mouth.

Maybe I used it wrong. There's something I believe that's effective about what he is doing. From what do you mean? Well, whether or not it has any impact, right? Whether or not they get,

I mean, even when this passes they've changed the bill to the point where it's got to go back to the house, I do think there are people who are watching, whether they're constituents, whether they're just American citizens who are listening to the things that he's saying

and I think that they will pay attention to it. He's been a big voice, high in leadership within the party, within Congress as a Republican, and the way, the passion that he has about what he is saying, and I don't, again, I'm not trying to give him too much, I do think that he is willing to sacrifice

his entire career on it. Right. He's out. I think that will impact some people and they'll listen in a way that maybe they haven't listened. and before, whether it's people in Congress, whether it's voters. I do think it has some, a slight impact.

But I think he should get out. So before I give, before we talk about this, I want to play something that Harry Anton said on CNN about the overall public perception of the big, beautiful bill. Donnie, play a little bit of it. We're not going to go to the whole thing. Play a little bit of what Harryinson said. I like Harry, by the way. Harry Enton here to run the numbers.

All right, Harry. How do Americans feel about the Big Beautiful Bill? Yeah, if we're talking about adjectives, how about they think it's awful, they think it's horrible, and to quote our colleague Charles Barkley, terrible, terrible, terrible. What are we talking about here? Well, let's take a look at the net favorable rating on the Big Beautiful Bill. I don't just got one poll for you, Omar. I got five of them, and the net favorable rating, minus 19 points Washington Post,

minus 20 points Pew Research Center, Fox minus 21, Quinnipiac University minus 26, KFF, minus 29. You don't have to be a mathematical genius to know that when the net favorable rating of your bill is somewhere between minus 19 and minus 29 points, that it is not a positive bill as viewed by the American public, the American public at this particular point.

Hate, hate, hate, hate, hate. The big beautiful bill. As far as they're concerned, it's not a big beautiful bill. It's a big bad bill. First of all, I got to say something about Harry. Why does Harry sound like he's calling a Yankee game in 1939? He does. And you got Joe DiMaggio up right now.

He does. The Yankee Clipper has been struggling lately. He's won for his last seven. Let's see if he can get things going for the bronze bombers here against Those dirty socks from Boston. I went here. It would be great. He sounds like he's calling me.

I like it. It's entertaining. It's a nice change of the way that political reporting is done. Yeah, he's doing a newsreel. Our boy has hit the shores of Normandy. It's time for D-Day. We're going to,

we're marching straight to the Kaiser. We're going to kick him in his keister. I like, I like listen to him to his thing. Keister. Great. Okay, so there's two things. One, the bill is unpopular, which is interesting. Why is that interesting to you?

Because... I mean, like, why are you... You're not surprised that the bill is unpopular, right? Yeah, I am. It impacts too many people. No, I am surprised that the bill is unpopular. Okay. I'm surprised that the bill is that unpopular with the people because the Trumpism isn't

in the substance. It's in the messaging. So even if the bill was bad for people, what Trumpism is... is being able to convince people that the bad bill was good. Okay, but you're right. Are they convincing? I don't even think that they're trying to convince you it's a good bill. They're just like, this is it.

Nah. Tell me what messaging the Trump administration has done in regards to the BBB that this is good for you, the American citizen. I'll give you an example. That's not what they do. Trump just says fake news. and then everybody says it. That's what he does.

He goes, hey, just let you know. Fox sometimes is the only reliable news source, and sometimes because he'll kick them in their ass too. Everything else, fake news, MSDNC, hey, ABC fake news, you want to talk? And that right there has been enough. By his own admission, he talked about this, he was giving a speech last week,

to erode Americans' faith in the mainstream legacy news media. Now, I'm not saying that the mainstream legacy news media is perfect, but I'm saying confidence in the mainstream legacy news media is at an all-time low. There are some big things that have happened, whatever, but confidence is at an all-time low just because Donald Trump said it. He was able to make it trendy to go into the bowels of the news and say, you guys are lying.

Oh, you just lie? But they haven't done that with this. And I'm going to misquote this, but hasn't it kind of been like, this is a sacrifice you need to make you'll get over it. It'll be worth it in the end. Like there have been congressmen that have said that so much. Like, you'll get over it. It's worth it.

It hasn't been just fake news when it regards this. And I believe that Americans do not play when it comes to their health care. Well, this is what I say about the bill. All right. There are three reasons why I disagree with what you're saying. Number one, he's lied about the Medicaid cuts. For sure. Right.

So he's tried to spend this. That was months ago. Well, they're still lying. The Trump administration hasn't come out and go, yeah, we're going to ding Medicaid. It's been the senators that I've looked at the bill and have said, hey, just to let you guys know, there's no way to do this without some Medicaid cuts. Correct. My argument is months ago, they were louder about it. I don't think that they're being as loud about it.

I really don't. And we can agree to disagree. I just feel like they've been a little bit more silent on the cuts that are going to be made. If you ask Mike Johnson what's going to happen in this bill, Mike Johnson, who was key to getting the bill through the house, he says, look, we are not going to cut anybody's Medicaid. But then he'll go, but we do believe that you should have to work, that there are work requirements,

and we also believe that there's a lot of fraud in it. A lot of the failure of Doge goes back to this. Doge was incredibly important from a narrative standpoint. Sure, sure, sure. In making people swallow this. Yeah. Because Doge was supposedly going to be so revelatory in the way that it went through and got all of this waste, fraud, and abuse out of the government.

And then it turned out that there wasn't as much as they thought there was. So there's no other way to pay for some of the stuff in here other than just to cut stuff. or to make it hard for people to get on the phone and get their social security or to put work requirements on Medicaid to essentially cut this stuff. So I think that a lot of the lawmakers, not Tom Tillis, who's obviously out of here,

but a lot of the lawmakers don't want to put their names on ending the health care of their constituents. And that's one thing. They're thinking self-preservation. But also there's something simple here. The big beautiful bill. The big beautiful bill. the cultural idea of this great big bill,

it's just not catching on with people. People are seeing through the Trump branding. Now, there could be some exhaustion with that, right? Or there could also be something that's happening where the general public is seeing a lot of fragility in the overall tenets of Trump world. They're seeing ice raids at home. Home Depot, people getting dragged out.

They're seeing women lose their babies because of ice raids. They're seeing demonstrations from all across the country. They're seeing Trump get involved in foreign wars. They're seeing maybe some cracks in a strongman armor. And they're going, well, we're not just going to go with this because he says that this is something that's good. We don't like it.

Now, obviously, the tax cuts are really expensive. Trump doesn't want to be a president that can't get this done and then see taxes go back up to the pre-Trump tax cut levels. So there's a lot of things in here. But the fact that there's no durability to Trump's messaging on this is something to be to raise your eye right. When you start talking about messing with people's health care, I feel like Americans react totally different.

And I don't think that there has been clear messaging to combat that fear. Right. And whether it's because it's not coming clearly from the administration or because you are having Republicans, they might not be going to the level of Tom Tillis, but they are questioning. Like, well, wait a minute. What does this mean for this? What does this mean for this? Even in Alaska, they're pressuring their senator to push back.

I can't think of her name right now. I'm Rikoski. Thank you. They're like, hey, you need to vote against this. Yeah. Like, people are afraid of how it is going to impact. and pack them, and I don't think the Trump administration has done a good job of saying why these cuts are necessary and who benefits at the end of the day for it, which it's the rich.

And I don't think that they've had a good explanation as to why this is necessary for who. Because it comes across is we're suffering, they're benefiting, when does that flip? And they have not answered that question. Well, they can't answer it. They've done the bob and weave of it all, but it's, people are like, uh-uh, uh-uh. They can't answer the question because there's no real answer to the question. Exactly. And I think people see that. But in the past, though, it wouldn't have mattered.

So the Trump tax cuts in the first administration, those tax cuts, you know, good for niggas like, you guys bowing. What year was that? Top's changed. But, you know, ran the deficit up, you know, like, you know, like, you. Biden kept those tax cuts, right? And they could blame it on COVID. They could blame things on what... Right.

But what I'm saying now, though, is we're forgetting about the Elon Musk. For sure. So Elon Musk, who, since he decided to become more directly into politics than ever before, was touted by the right as the biggest fucking genes in the entire world. This is the smartest man in the world. Smart's man in the history of the world, and he's with us. He's so fucking smart

that we're going to give him a bunch of eggheads, send them into the boughs of our government, and they're going to find out all of the stuff that's wrong. Well, they couldn't do that. They didn't do it, right? They didn't do it because there was nothing to find. Not really. There's waste, fraud, and abuse in government, of course.

In every system, yeah. But to the level of a trillion dollars or whatever it was, they weren't going to be able to find that, right? But this same guy then goes, you know what? You know what's wasteful? If you're asking me, this fucking bill. This bill is wasteful.

It's going to run the deficit up. He has some kind of existential fear of budget deficits. I watched this whole interview with Peter Till, who's a fucking cyborg, by the way, not a real human being. Peter Till is not a real human being. Peter Till was created in a lab and then grown. It's not a real person.

I don't believe it. I don't believe that Peter Till is a real person. Peter Till is a robot. He's already a robot. He's a robot now. I watched the entire interview. Watch it twice. I listened to it.

And then I was like, wait a second. This nigger here. This don't sound like. And then I watch, he literally was getting programming. He didn't know that he was the Antichrist. Peter Till didn't know that he was the Antichrist. It's hysterical.

They're talking about the Antichrist and the guys looking at Peter Thiel. And he's like, you know, antichrist you know it would be somebody like you would be like a palatier fucking blah blah blah and Peter Thiel's and then his shit was getting reprogrammed right in the moment it was funny but all of that to come back to Elon Peter Thiel who also might be a robot I just think that the the culture of Trumpism is I'm not saying that it's over guys but there's cracks there's cracks and this this is what I was trying to say about the Candace thing.

I'll be quick. Okay, so is MAGA is a cult? Redemption. Not redemption. We need a, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not trying to redeem myself because I believe, because I, unlike everybody else in the space, I think it's really positive and healthy that we disagree. I really do.

Oh, I agree. Yeah. So, but if Trump is a cult to you? Yes. Okay. Now, let's look at it like it's an actual cult. if there is an actual cult what is the number one thing

that would have to happen to break the control of the cultist you have to kill the leader Rachel ain't fucking around okay like okay Rachel I want this nigga dead

all right short of killing him what would have to happen? I mean, you have to show that there's a crack in the belief system. There has to be someone. Because it's a belief. It's a religion. It's belief. It's structured control.

And it has to come from within the cult. Sure, of course, of course. Because there are people from outside of the cult that are talking to you, that are saying this, that are like, boom, boom. But the minute that other people see that either somebody leaves, right? Either somebody leaves and their life is better now. Or somebody starts exposing the secrets and the inconsistencies of what's going on. I'm not saying that's the only way because you could kill the cult leader and then silver.

Or you could, whatever, you could David Koresh Waco the thing and do the whole deal. But that is a powerful, powerful mechanism to break the control that the strong man has over the group of people. who are enamored with him. That decision coming from within. Correct, which is why I think of some of what Tom Tillis did is effective. I get it. This episode is brought to by WeatherTech. Everyone knows Winter is the MVP and making a mess.

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I'm not smart enough to navigate these things. I wish I was. I wish I was a constitutional law professor like. I'm glad you're not. Obama. Or Professor Jamal Green, who is the Dwight professor at Columbia Law School. That's in Harlem near there. Author of How Rights Went Wrong in 2021. and one of the four inaugural co-chairs of Facebook's oversight board left the board in

23. Huh. I wonder why. He's a legal scholar. We're in a constitutional crisis and we're going to ask him about some of the decisions that Supreme Court has just made. Professor Green, thank you for joining us on higher learning today. Thank you for having me.

All right. First question. As a lay person to law, constitutional law in the way that it works, the message that is being given to me from some of the decisions that the Supreme Court has just made is that they have completely unleashed Donald Trump onto America and that he is now, because the courts were the only thing that was kind of stopping him from observing his will over an entire country, and the Supreme Court has undone that. How true is that? Well, I think the court is not especially attentive, and I think not attentive enough to exactly the dynamic that you're talking about, which is, they're acting as if we are in normal times with a normal president who usually acts in good faith, who has people who are telling him what the law is, who listens to them, who cares what the law is. And they're making decisions for that kind of president.

And the president we have is obviously not that kind of president. And I think especially with the birthright citizenship decision, which sends a message, to him that it's going to be very much more difficult for courts to stop him from doing what he wants to do is extremely troubling. It's very disturbing. So let me ask you a question real quick. Just one quick follow up, Professor Green. How could that be true? How could it be possible that they don't understand? There's some of the smartest people in the world, some of the most savvy scholars in the world. Did they not have televisions when January 6 happened? Like, why would what you're saying be at all a possibility for those nine people?

Well, I think some of them understand, right? So there's a few of them who I think Justice Sotomayor understands. I think Justice Jackson understand. Some of them, I think, have persuaded themselves that they just can't interfere in certain aspects of the political process. They have a very narrow kind of formalistic view of what their own role is. And I think some of them agree with them. And, you know, Justice Alito, Justice Thomas have shown themselves to be very, very conservative, and I think may not see him as a threat at all.

So I think it's a mix between the different justices. And I think one thing to say about this birthright citizenship issue, though, is that I don't think the court is going to let this executive order go into effect ultimately. Right. So they've opened the door. The door is open. There are other things that can happen between now and three weeks from now when the order would go into effect that could stop it. And I think they're likely to stop it. So I think that they're convinced they've convinced themselves that they're not actually doing any harm by saying that. And what they basically said is courts are not allowed to. apply their decisions to non-parties. So to everyone in the country or everyone who's affected by executive branch action and has to be the plaintiffs themselves, which is a very narrow understanding of what courts are allowed to do.

But I think they've persuaded themselves. It's not going to be a big deal in this case. And it's good in general. Yeah, I think that's one thing. You know, the headlines say, you know, they talk about the birthright citizenship. But as you said, they didn't decide on the merits of the case in regards to what he said, I'm sorry, his executive

order with birthright citizenship. They didn't make a decision on that. They made a decision on injunctions. But Trump is telling everyone this is a monumental win. And even if they didn't make that decision, he thinks it gave him the power. He's made comments that the judicial branch has too much power and is overreaching into the area of the executive branch. in ways that they shouldn't. We know that's not true. But he thinks that this has given him the power to act on these executive orders.

So I guess I don't understand this is going to end up right back in the Supreme Court anyway where they're going to eventually have to make some sort of decision on the executive order and birthright citizenship, right? Yeah, this will get back to the...

It's very likely to get back to the court. And it might get back to the court pretty quickly, in fact, because the next step is going to be, and this has already happened, the plaintiffs in the case filed for the class to certify a class action. So they're going to try to have a different way of getting to strike down the order as applied to people around the country. And that might get back to the court as well. You know, Donald Trump responding to this by saying, yeah, this is a big win for me.

This is exactly what his lawyers were trying to accomplish. with this. They know that they're going to lose eventually in terms of whether the first right citizenship order is constitutional or not. At least they think they're going to lose. I think they're going to lose too. You never know. But I think his lawyers think they're going to lose. And so how do you get him a win? You get him a win by changing it into a technical procedural issue that you think you might be able to get the court to agree with you on. And then he comes out 10 minutes later and says, look, I won. So they're trying to give him wins

and give him talking points and part of his agenda is to frighten people and to show that he's in charge. But why do you think that they're going to lose ultimately to Trump administration? The 14th Amendment is very clear. That's not enough, obviously. Quartz make decisions that surprise you sometimes.

But 14th Amendment is very clear. clear. The federal law in terms of what Congress has done has been very clear for more than 100 years. Executive branch practice has been very clear for more than 100 years. And I just don't see five votes on this court to overturn all of that just based on what Donald Trump decides to do. That could be, you know, you never know. But I don't, and I think when you listen to the oral argument in this case, when you kind of read the tea leaves, I just don't. I just don't. don't see it. I've been wrong before, but I really think this is very unlikely, I think, for the court to say ultimately that you can just write an executive order that just goes right

in the teeth of the 14th Amendment and what federal law has been for a century or more. You mentioned class actions. What are some loopholes to kind of get around the ruling that the Supreme Court made so that people can file in the district courts and get an injunction? Yeah, so I think there are a couple of avenues to go here. I think the most obvious one, as you mentioned, is a class action, and that's a device that allows a single plaintiff to create relief for a broader class of plaintiffs. And there are some requirements in the law for how you actually can construct a class. It has to be the claims that everyone's bringing.

have to be roughly the same. The court has to be satisfied that the person bringing the case of the right kind of lawyer and the right kind of plaintiff to bring the case. But if you can get a class certified nationwide, then you could get the same kind of relief that they were seeking anyway. The other possibility is there are states involved in this case. So the 22 states who have said, look, if the if people born in the United States, States are not automatically citizens, and we have to go and verify everyone's citizenship, then there are lots of benefits that we provide that turn on citizenship, including Medicaid benefits and the like, and that's going to make it very difficult for us. And what they said in

court is, and what they're going to continue to say, is in order to give us relief, you have to apply this decision to everyone in the country because people move, right, into our state. It's not just, If I'm state in New Jersey and someone moves from Philadelphia to Camden, then they've crossed into state lines and they've crossed state lines. And we want to be able to say exactly what the citizenship of that person is, regardless of what state they were born in. So another possibility is to say that in order to give the states complete relief in this case, they actually have to apply it nationwide.

So I think one of those avenues, we're going to see lower courts pursuing one of those avenues or both. And then it may very well get back to the Supreme Court. And they'll have to decide if they're allowed to do that. Let's talk about that broader. Forget about the birthright citizenship situation in and of itself. Let's talk about the broader idea of that. because there had been several different instances of district court judges stopping the Trump administration from being able to do what they wanted to do in regards to, you know, I guess sending people overseas to gulags or whatever it is. But there was also that same pushback from district court judges for Joe Biden, things like student loan forgiveness and other issues.

how fundamental change is that, if that is legal precedent, that a district court judge has less power to check the president nationwide? Does that fundamentally change everything? It will change a lot of things. And I think the biggest issue is that it gives a green light and a blueprint to someone like Donald Trump, if he wants to to inflict. his policies on someone, he knows how to avoid getting a quick court ruling against him. But as you say, the idea of a nationwide injunction by a single court has lots of problems, right?

So I think it's more important to understand that in a democracy, if the executive branch or pursue some policy to have a single court stop. the executive branch from doing that over the whole country can create a lot of problems. In the Biden administration, there were issues around availability of certain drugs, issues around student loan forgiveness. So this has been a big issue left and right. People have complained about this kind of practice. I think people who are critical of what the court did last week,

a big part of the criticism is you waited until now to do this? All the times you could intervene and say you're not allowed to do it. To do it when the merits are so clear when it comes to birthright citizenship and when the president is so lawless, what you're doing is you're telling him, look, if tomorrow you decide I'm going to do an executive order that says that black people can't vote, let's say. I'm not saying he's going to do that. But imagine something that extreme.

You never know, Jamon. You never know. And he's done very extreme. things already. Imagine something that extreme. Before, if he had done something like that, you'd just go to, a single court would have just said, you go to Massachusetts, go to New York, go to New Jersey, a Maryland. A single court would have said, no, you can't do that. You, the executive branch, are in my court, and I'm telling you who are in, who's in my court,

you can't do this anymore. But now, you'd have to certify a class. And who knows what would happen with that class certification? has put a lot of limits on class certification over the last several years. And the litigation might go very differently. Right. So yes, individual plaintiffs and in every state could go and try to sue, but it's very expensive to file a lawsuit. You need the resources and so forth. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. If I'm, if I was born into this country by parents who were not citizens. And so now I'm under,

I'm subjected to this executive order, born in this country, but to illegal immigrants. I'm not a part of a class action. I can't afford an attorney, or I just don't get an attorney. What happens to that person? So as of right now,

after the 30 days, sorry. Yeah, after the 30 days, if that, if it goes into effect, that person, once that child would be born without any certainty about their legal status. Right. So it could be born in the United States, anytime in the last 150 years that they were born in the United States, they were a citizen of the United States period. But once that 30-day period ends, they won't know. Now, it may be that eventually the Supreme Court comes in and decides that this is unconstitutional, and that would change their legal status. But at that point, they've got a burst certificate that may not indicate that they're a citizen.

In the interim, if they want to travel, they want to get a passport. They want to get benefits, Medicaid benefits, let's say. They won't be able to, even though the child's a citizen. So that creates a lot of uncertainty. And I think it's important to say that it's not just the people who this order actually applies to. Right. So it's not just if your parent is undocumented or if your parent is, your parents are in a student visa or work visa and also applies to those people. But it's also every baby born in the United States. You know, as of right now, if you want to prove that you're a citizen of the United States, all you need is your birth certificate. Right. But under this order, if this were allowed to go into effect, everyone would need more proof. Right? You go to the hospital, you want to say, put citizen on my birth certificate, okay, show me your papers. Right? And that's, a lot of people don't have their papers, right?

Even whether they're, you know, citizens or not. Right. So the kind of chaos that we're talking about is real. And it's not just, it would be real, real enough and problematic enough if it was just the people it applies to, but it applies to everyone. You know, this is something that is going to, if it were to go into effect, would be, create a lot of, uncertainty for everyone of the country who has a baby. I think you've been so generous with your time. I'm going to ask you one more question. It's a broader question about the court.

It seems to me that the Roberts Court, for the entire time of his existence, has waged all out war against working people. A lot of the decisions that have been made by this court seem to, I'm not a big Supreme Court guy. all right. Me and Rachel don't agree. I don't know if you know, but Rachel's dad is a federal judge.

So he's, you know, part of the problem here. But I'm not a big Supreme Court guy. I think that a lot of the decisions that have been made in the history of the court have been undemocratic

and have been against the interests of working people. I look at things like, obviously, Citizens United. I mean, you can go back to the dress, God decision, all kinds of stuff that have been against,

against the advancing freedom and democracy. I think the court is an instrument of that sometimes. Why am I wrong? Why should people have faith, not in this Supreme Court, but in the institution of the Supreme Court? So you're not going to get a lot of disagreement for me about that. I think there have been times in history when the Supreme Court has played an important role

in furthering democratic citizenship for people who are struggling, people who are at the margins. But that is not, by and large, been its history. That's the exception rather than the rule. And I don't mean to single out the court necessarily. I mean, our country doesn't have a great history when it comes to that. But the court is, it's a preservationist institution.

It's trying to preserve the status quo. And so if you're someone, that's what law, that's what law often is, is preservation of the status quo. And Supreme Court justices historically, not all of them, but historically have been coming to corporate lawyers and prosecutors and people who are very conservative. And so whatever politics you expect from the modern Republican Party, you should expect from a lot of federal judges. And that's not even that much of a criticism in the sense that

I'm not suggesting that they're not doing their jobs, but you put conservative people into a role, they'll act conservative. You put liberal people in a role, they'll act liberal. And judges are by temperament and by how they get to their position, they're not, they tend to be conservative people. Supreme Court's a little bit more extreme than that. I mean, we have a very conservative court,

and it's out of step with politics. But the last time the Supreme Court had a majority of Democratic appointees on it was 1969. So that's a long time, even though we've had many, many Democratic presidents, many Democratic senators. So it's misaligned with the American people. So you're seeing that now. But I don't think you're wrong to say that, you know, if you care about democracy, you know, lowercase deed, and you care about working class people, you know, the institution. that you should be interested in propping up are more openly political institutions.

State legislatures, Congress. Not right now, but historically, has been as a much better record on this than the court itself. Quick personal question for me. What is it like to teach constitutional law right now? I went to law school years ago. Years during the Obama administration. I can't even imagine being a law.

the law student right now. It's like the props are writing themselves, the real life prompts. What is it like to teach con law? And I know you wrote an article about the constitutional crisis, but what is it like? And are you, we're only six months in? Are you fearful to where things are headed? Six months in this administration, I should say, a long time with the Supreme Court. Yeah, I know, I'm very fearful of where we are. I think we are, but beyond constitutional crisis, I think we are in the throes of a kind of authoritarianism and have to find our way out of it. But teaching, there's nowhere I'd rather be

than in a classroom teaching constitutional law right now because I can say there's a long tradition here. There are a lot of ways in which we can talk about, argue about the Constitution. There are ways in which the administration is clearly going wrong. And so you're being an educator in this moment is, feels like I'm doing something in a time when I think people are feeling very helpless. So it does feel good to educate people. My students are afraid.

My students are anxious. And so you're partly professor and partly counselor and therapist in this moment. And I do think you get to a point where, you know, talking to lawyers is not necessarily the people, you know, if people are breaking the law, then you need to talk to politicians and talk to activists and talk to artists and, you know, people who are bringing a different kind of perspective. You do feel like there's only so much I can say, right? when you say, yeah, it violates the law. The person who's supposed to enforce the law is the one violating it. Wow. And at that point, you're in a different paradise than just ordinary law.

You guys, chilling. That's Professor Jamal Green. Really appreciate you joining us, man. Thank you. Thank you for joining us on higher learning. Thank you. No problem, brother. This episode is brought to you by Sweet Green.

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Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. Glaze of the week, glaze of the week. body's meat. It's the glaze of the week. Glaze of the week. Glaze of the week.

You're sucking dick. Okay. So the glaze of the week this week goes out to this tweet that I saw. I don't know if you saw this. This tweet says, I just left F1 and boy is my cock hard.

F1 is a movie with Dams and Ingerson and rap hits. I was thinking the actual race. Okay. That tweet is by Van Lathan. I am the glaze of the week this week. I got to be honest with you guys. Is it a good movie?

I'm glazing F1, man. What makes it so great? Would I like it? You would fucking love F1. F1 is that shit. I didn't think I'll, first of all, I don't know shit about F1, right? I don't know it. I don't like it.

I don't like, people, when people tell me when they say, hey, I want to go to the F1 race, I'm like, what are you doing? You know, what's your thing? You're trying to act like you're cosmopolitan. It's like all of a sudden, when everybody got into soccer at the same time, and it was kind of like, if you didn't have a soccer fan,

you didn't know which forks and knives to use at dinner. Mm-hmm. Like the people that know which forks and knives to use at dinner, they are soccer fans. You know? You know how to use the... I never knew how to use the... Just work your way outside in.

See, that's... something that they said in Titanic, and that's the only time. Even that confuses me, because outside from what? Is it outside from here? Is it inside from there? Who knows? But I got to a point to where all are like the Hollywood elites, because everywhere else in the world, it's fine, but all of the Hollywood elites that I know, they all had a team.

I pull for Chelsea. I love Arsenal, Man City, Liverpool. They all had one, right? Then that kind of got to a point to where it wasn't as big a deal anymore. It is still a big deal. It's only, obviously, soccer is the biggest deal in the world. But football, as they say, and then there's a difference between then. Some people don't say, hey, I'm a soccer fan.

Some people say, I'm a football fan. And then you know these motherfuckers is eating caviar. Okay, that's only in America. Everywhere else, being a football fan is for the people in the light streets of the, everyone is a football fan. It's a fair. Right, right. But then it became F1.

Everybody was like, hey, I'm going to F1 in Vegas. They got F1 here. But not for the race. for the festivities. Whatever. Even that stuff. I'm like, when did you fucking... Because I remember Michael Schumacher

and all of those guys and all of that stuff. It was on Sports Center. I'm like, when did you start caring about F1? Every... And I saw that movie. So you going to Monica?

Abu Dhabi, Monaco. I might go to a bunch of different... I might go F1, Mexico City. Nice. This movie was beautiful. It was about beautiful people. racing cars and the drama that surrounds what happens when you're too beautiful

and then you're not beautiful enough. The movie was about what happens when an old grizzled F1 never was meets a young black dark skin maverick and they're driving and you're learning the rules of F1 and the cars are beautiful and there's a white woman, age appropriate

a white woman, which they never do. If this was a Tom Cruise movie, that white woman would have been 19 years old. But in this movie, she looks, I don't want to say the lady's age, but she looks great. Her and Brad Pitt, I don't want to ruin the movie, but it's F1. And I'm fucking into it. I saw it 70mm. Citywalk, it's F1.

Nigger? That's how they should have marketed it to film. No, they should have gone. It's F1. Dot, dot, dot. nigger. Damson could have done that. Damson could, it's just, it's like, and then you think that Damson's

playing the little guy in the movie, but he's not. Don't give it away. He's, he's got his own, he's got his own arc in the film. It's F1. What about the girl that kicked out the movie? Which one? I don't know about it. There's a girl who apparently, I guess, made some comments.

And they talk, it's like in all the, anytime I see somebody doing an interview, they're asking about, diminishing her role in the movie. She was in Bridgeton. Okay, but who does she play in the movie? They took her out. She's completely out of the movie?

She's in the background. She was supposed to be Damson's love interest. Oh, no, she's definitely not in that bitch. Simone Ashley. Show me her? Was completely cut out of F1. Nah, they didn't put Simone in there. She's like in the background.

You're going to let me have this. Well, I'll apologize to her. But we didn't miss her, man. You didn't know. Like we didn't miss her, man. I'm, I got to give myself. I got to be, I got to be, um, accountable to the thought warriors, the landlord lovers out there. It, I, I'm glazing F1.

F1 was way better than it had any business being. I'm fucking fucking with 70 millimeter at CityWalk. It's fucking going crazy. You've convinced me. I'm going to go see it now. I got to go see it. I got to go see it. All right.

Um, all right, Rachel. We got, uh, oh. Do you want to do the pop the balloon conversation? Because I definitely want to talk about this fight in Texas. No, no, no. You don't want to do pop the balloon? No, let's do Drake. People can talk about Drake.

Go for it. Dye's got it. Put it up. Put the picture up. All right, let's do it. I want to see the picture of the ad. Yeah, Drake posted this on his Instagram. And I want to know what you take.

You know, you posted a boxing video. You're hard in the gym. You're heavy in the gym. A lot of critique about this picture. He posted a mirror selfie, which he is no stranger to. He loves a selfie, whether it's in a mirror or out of a mirror. Yeah. There he is.

There he is. Okay. Okay. He's looking chiseled. Abs are chiseled. In some areas, like, I mean, this is like the body of a Greek god, the abs are. I mean, it is extremely chiseled. Now, there was a lot of criticism about this because people quickly notice that other

areas of the body weren't as chiseled. Now, as an expert, as you, you, yeah, you, as a person. As an expert with gym, in the gym, you've been putting in a lot of work. You're no stranger to it. You know the time, the dedication, the nutrition, the regimen it takes to achieve. Yeah, you talk about it a lot. I ate some chocolate cup. And is this proportionally correct?

there's been a lot of talk about one that the arms don't match the abs and maybe that Drake may have had some assistance outside of the gym and I'm not talking about in the kitchen. So, Donnie, I'm going to send you a picture and not to make it about me, okay? Well, I asked for your opinion.

Okay, Donnie, I'm going to send you a picture of me when I was in my best shape. All right. And I want to make a point here. Is this shirt? It's not shirtless. But it'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I will make a counterpoint here that maybe people aren't paying attention to. All right, Donna, here, here you go.

All right, there you go. So put this picture up of me. All right. Now, Rachel, have you ever seen this photo before? Probably have. Put this picture up of me. Cut out the fat me. Because don't even put it.

Is it a side by side? Yeah, it's a side by side of the fat me. Okay. That's a before and after right there. All right. Now, look at my arms are cut. Look at my arms. They're cut.

Okay. Look at my shoulders. Mm-hmm. All right. In this picture right here, my abs are hell. Okay. You can't see an app. All right.

Where I get fat is around that area. Okay. So now I have this stubborn thing where the back fat is crazy. And it's like, I don't like, that's the one thing. I thought I hated the tities most, but what I really hate most is the back fat. Because the back fat make you look like a fucking tub of love. back fat, fat bitch. But look, I can't really...

I was fine as shit, man. Look at the stick right here. Oh, my God. Look at his shoulders. That nigga there. Let's pop the balloon. Oh, you popping a movie on this thing? That nigga on the left getting a balloon popped on him.

I'm sorry. Hold on for a second, Rachel. Hold on for a second. We got to take this before and after. That nigga on the left, he getting the balloon popped on him. Look at him. knows. No. Shut, don't fuck. You're not fucking with him.

Like that, shout out to him. That's a nice guy. Man, that's a nice guy. That guy was the type of guy, but look at that neck. That you popping a balloon on that, nigga. All right. Okay, anyway, but back to this. So,

I look at these arms, when people were saying the arms don't match, I'm looking at this picture and I'm like, my abs didn't match my arms. Okay. So it's a possible that his abs are better his arms. Don't take this as criticism. Your arms are ripped. I immediately said it. I was like your arms are ripped. But they are not ripped in the way that his abs were ripped. And that is what I'm, he didn't have just like a four pack or I mean, it was tight. Right. And if your arms were like, I don't know, name some like big bulk body arm. They were, if your arms were bulked up and ripped and I mean, vainy, all of it. And then you had that. That, to me, is the comparison. Drake's stomach.

And if it's real, it's real fine. It looks fake, though. Right. It looks fake. And the arms, there's not even any definition. Okay, let's go back to the mission. Do the legs have definition? When I'm looking at that, I'm looking at that, that right there was like 400 pushers a day.

When you work in like what Drake's abs are, there's going to be a muscle somewhere else. Okay. Once again, I mean, hold on first of, I'm not going to act like that. looks real. Okay? But at the same time, I don't know. I don't know. Well, I don't know. And a lot of people looked at this and right

the way they felt like they knew, I don't know. Because of the Kendrick lyric. Yeah. And that's what I thought when I saw this. I said, poor Drake, for all we know, this could be real with slight enhancement on the photo. But is Drake ever going to redeem himself? That's what I thought. When I saw all the criticism,

I thought if this was another rapper, they'd be more inclined to believe it. But when it comes to Drake, there's just no chance given. And then I saw this video when I was on TikTok this weekend. Morgan Wallen does his famous walkouts. Yeah. I don't know the songs, like Leave the Broadway Girls Alone. And he does a walkout. Oh, you know what song, Molyne Wallen?

What's the name of the song? It's called My Nigger My Niggas. Okay. That's one. He comes out He walks down the long hall To go to stage And he stops

And there's a couple of famous people On the way he's dapping up Most recently We saw Mike Tyson But he was in Houston Yeah And on the walk Roger Clemens was there

And then who pops up Drake was a big deal It was a big deal And the screams were crazy And I thought This is where Drake belongs now What you mean? When I see this

This picture the way, and it's us, right? It's us looking at this picture and we're critical, black people and we're questioning him and we just don't believe him and he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt and Drake, at least at the moment in 2025,

will always be questioned. Everything he does is question. Not the Moreland Wallin, folks. Oh, they fucking wouldn't have interesting. I thought this is where he, this is where he is now. They went crazy for Drake in Houston and I thought, he knows where he belongs in the hallway with Morgan Wallen.

guess my thing is this. Let's say he did get his body done. If you got your body done, you got to post that picture. What would be the point? Correct. Of posting, of getting your body done and then not posting the picture. Should you own it? What you mean?

So, like, I'm of the belief when I see women and, like, recently Kylie Jenner went viral because somebody asked her to please say what you did to your chest. And she gave the, like, not only the cups. she's like full detail, right? I like when people are forthcoming about the work they've done. That they don't lie, that it's natural or they took some supplement.

I like you more when you do that. So if Drake did do this, I don't have a problem with it either. But just say it. So let me, this is great. So I think that there's something specific with the abs here. And let me tell you why. There are sometimes when you get work done,

that the work, the result could only happen from the work. Now, there are women who get the BBL that could have maybe built a butt with squats and all of that stuff. Over time. Over time.

A lot of time. But it takes a long, long time. And then there's a genetic play. If you don't have a wagon on you, you're not going to, build the wagon from the squats. You can build. You might a little. Yeah, but yeah, you can build.

And by the way, that's something that people don't understand is that the shape of the butt is more important than the size of the butt. It's very true. Agreed. So, but sometimes if you want that type of splat out, you got to get the BB up. All right, cool. With me, there was nothing I could do. I was going to eat minerals and all of that stuff.

The shit was going. It's far the time. If I wanted the headline back, I got to get the transplant. sometimes people look at, particularly with guys and this abs and stuff like that, they look at it as fake hustle. Like they look at it as like not just cosmetics, because he can do whatever he wants, right? But with men, they're supposed to do things the hard way. You're supposed to, there's discipline in building your body.

Also, I think there's the idea that because of the, you're more testosterone, that it's easy. for you? I think some people think that. Maybe, maybe. And so you're, but you're supposed to make the sacrifice to work out in the gym. And there's a, like, you see Kendrick, Kendrick will do something and then he'll do this and then he'll drop down and do like 50 pushups or some shit like that. Like, there's a, there's something to it. There's a manliness thing to it that comes from the hard work and the sacrifices being in the trenches. You're doing fucking pull-ups for that. And when people think that you didn't do that, they're more saying something about Drake than they are about the operation.

Yeah. It's saying that he's an easy way out. It's not real and all of that stuff. I personally don't see the big deal. I mean, if you were asking me, put a million dollars on it, he probably had some work done, you know? Yeah, he did. But if you're going to have the work done, you got to show it off.

That or took some something. Oh, like, steroids. But see, that wouldn't make, could be, the arms would. The arms would be bigger. The arms would be bigger. Yeah, the arms would be bigger. But it's so funny to me, people looked at this and it was like, why your arms look like that. That's funny.

That's funny. That's funny. That's funny, bro. Even, no matter who you are, you can be the biggest OVO fan. You got to admit, for you to be flexing like that and have them abs looking like that and somebody would be like, look at your arms crazy. That's funny, bro. That's funny to me. What workouts do you have to do where you don't use your arms to get that kind of, to get that kind of?

Well, I mean. Other than sit-ups. Well, even the sit-ups, though, in order to get that core like that, you're going to have to plank. And if you was planking that much, the arms will be probably a little bit more shredding. It's the, it's the stomach is so extreme. Yeah. That that's why it's like, now, wait a minute. Why do we care though?

Because he made us care. He took a selfie and he posted it. But, okay, let me ask you a question. I don't like really care, but you know what I mean? Do the abs look good to you? I'm not a, I'm not a person who's like a sucker for abs. I'm not like, oh, my God, they got to have abs. I date a lineman.

You know what I mean? Like, I'm not a person who's, I was like, I could even do a bit of a dad bod. I'm just not, I'm not a person who, like I used to say that. I think people think that because of my ex. And I was like, don't do it for me. Do it for yourself. What do we call the early Americans that got here?

Settlers. Which one am I settling on? The abs or the dad bond? Which one? Which one? I'm so gullible. Settlers? I'm happy I ace the quiz.

Because the joke don't work unless you're smart. The joke don't work unless you're smart. All right. Before we get out of here, Donnie, play this video. Rach, this is great. Okay, look at this. I have no idea what could have precipitated this. Alcohol.

I know, but. Alcohol and a man. Alcohol and a man. So when you're looking at a fight, this has everything. Okay. So let's go back to the beginning. Ooh, get the fuck off me, bitch. You know what it doesn't have?

Okay, so look. I love that. I love that. Let's go back to the start, Donnie. Okay. So, so, bitch, don't throw, who you talk? Oh, get on the ground. Are they already barefoot?

They're already into it. Boom. And then you've got a grounding pound right here. Ground. She's going to pull her down, try to get it back down. Her friend, he's up saying, nah, you're getting off. You're getting off too much. But then here comes, oh, there's a kick and there's a throw down by beige dress.

Not beige. What is that? Turquoise. and now there's another ground and pound happening. She's whopping them, like just pulling them in the blue. Nobody touched her. And so now the hair pulling the kick.

Oh, Donnie, go back. Oh, God, hold on for a second. She won. Blue is the one. Go back out. You got to go back again, Donnie. The MVP of this is blue. That's a one hit.

Go back, Donnie. When you pull your arm back like that. Boom, look at blue. Get your goddamn ass down. She broke the nose. Her nose is broken. Boom. She hits the ground.

Full on moon right there. Blue is kind of a de-boated situation. For sure. So what I can't understand is whether or not these are two different factions of white women or whether or not this is a girl's trip going wrong. Okay, let's look at it again. Because it starts off between these two.

All right, they're down. There's some ass out there. There's not a lot of ass in these women. So really, that's not distracting. Okay. So look, the ground upon is happening. Red comes in. Here comes Big Blue.

Get your dumb ass on the ground, stupid. Okay, I think it's two different groups. You think it's two different groups? at it. Red and the one who's getting... Yeah, the blue is the eliminator. That's her name. Blue is the eliminator. She eliminated...

Okay, so now Pocodot goes back over again. Bitch ain't learned your lesson. Get the fuck off. So Blue they punched her the shit out of her. And now it seems as if things are back together. There was butts. There was actually some vagina that was explored. There was.

As it happens in a fight, like you, You ain't worried about that. They're in little dresses coming back from the club. So wait a second. You mean to tell me, because some of these women are going straight commando, right? Watch Blue come in again. Get your dumb ass off. Get your stupid ass.

What the fuck wrong with you, man? Like, get off my friend. Get off her. Get off of her. Get off of her. I'm walking away. Okay. Blue was like, I'm done.

I'm done. It's over. It's over. It's over. Oh, no. Well, we're not going to do with kick. Get off of her. We're not going to take cheap shots.

We're not going to kick. She tried to kick. So as a woman, you know you ain't got no draws on. You don't think about that in the moment. And you don't care. When you're fighting, you're fighting. Like you're not worried about, oh my gosh, is my titty going to fall out? Is my dress going to come up and expose people?

You're not thinking about that. You're trying to win. Let me tell you something. I got to say something. All right. Trying to stay up. Tell you something. This is different than the fat nigger creed up.

then the what? The fat nigga Crito. Okay. The fat nigga Crito is we never show stomach. Okay. If I get knocked on the ground and my shit comes up, before I make any move, I'm pulling that shit down. Okay.

Like the fat nigga Crito is it don't matter what happened. I'm running. I'm running. I fall. My shit hike up. I'm pulling it down. I'm pulling that shit. You're not going to get a free jiggly belly off me.

That's why I know these women was really into, but the fat-nigger Crito is different. They fighting is, and they had gone to the waxer. And so, but they don't even care. When I got jumped in the bathroom at that strip club that time. Oh, my God. I told this story before. I know.

Thankfully, I was in the bathroom. It was just girls. But I was fighting for my life because everybody was in the bathroom, so they didn't come out until people I was with were in the stalls. They didn't come out until, you know, a couple of seconds later when they realized it was me. I didn't even know my dress was up because I'm just fighting and it wasn't

until my friends came out and when it was separated they like pulled it down because I'm not I can't even feel that I'm trying to well when I was getting jobs so I was trying to survive it yeah

Donnie put the video up one more time I just want to look at green one more time the Eliminator Blue Blue is blue or green From here it looks turquoise Is it turquoise That's green right now

Like to me, like, boom, look at all this. She walked away. I've had it. Enough of y'all. It's enough of you, bitches. It's enough of you bitches. Look, look. Did you just kick her?

Bam! What? Did you just bam? Get your dumb ass on the ground. Where is she from? She's knocked out. So this happened in Frisco, Texas. Okay.

A suburb outside of Dallas. But the way Blue came in, she's from Prosper. Okay. Selina. Okay. I don't know these places. That's what they get down? Little Am.

Little Am, the country. The country. Corn fed. Look at them. Look at the fighting. But one here, she's just ready. But, but you know what I love, man? Not a Wakandan insight.

Frisco. Not a Wakandan insight. Blue came in ready. Blue play volleyball, man. Softball. So, Rachel, you all on this one. She might be a pitcher. Yeah.

You saw the way she cocked that arm back? Pocodot is dumb. PocaDot just got dominated. Is that a man randomly? in the mix. We didn't even talk about him. Where? I don't see him. Where is he at? Right there. All I show is,

you're a pussy. You can't, like, yeah, that is. He saw blue. He saw blue. He said, I don't want nothing else. Well, the reality with this guy is that he's probably trying to break this up, but also come in, like, the white knight and be somebody's hero.

Do you think they all knew each other? Because the way blue just hit the last girl, they could. I think they all went to the same college school, but they're not the same crew. How could this have happened is my point? Because when you go back to the car, it looks like they're all getting into the same car. Yeah, there's a car door.

There's a car door open. Well, who was driving? Blue. Yeah, blue was probably the one. It looks like they were all going out and saying, you know, we got to cut this together for social. I think he's the Uber driver or Lyft driver. The man is the Uber driver is what you're saying, Donnie. And then he got into this situation with them and tried, it's trying to break it up.

Yep. So they all got the same. Uber. It's a lot of people to fit into this car. This is not a Uber X-L. Nobody's around. It almost seems like they were fighting in the car and he had to pull over and then they just got and they just got went to town. But my thing is this though.

And I'll ask you, how could you be friends with someone after they eliminate you on camera like that, punch you dead in your shit? Could you be friends with them again? Because remember, I mean, if I'm Jremont, yeah. Dramont. Nah. No, no, no. No, no, no. You guys.

You guys keep acting like, Van. People hit me up like, Van, you ain't never been in the fight and being cool with, yeah, of course. That's not what happened. That's not what happened. Draymond, golf a nigga in the shit and did nothing happen to him

and was like, we should be cool after. And that guy had to leave. Teams. And then he got, I'm not fucking with you no more. We got out here. Tell you thing caps off, but do not stop learning.

I'm Van Lathan Jr. I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Bye guys.