Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Bachelorette Cancellation, Biracial Jihad, Plus Iran and Civil War II Wth Emma Vigeland

Episode Date: March 24, 2026

Van and Rachel discuss ICE and TSA before reacting to the latest from the 'Bachelorette' cancelation. Plus: the release of Justin Timberlake’s DUI arrest footage, the return of the movie star, and Van’s got a take on J. Cole and ‘biracials.’ Then, Emma Vigeland from 'The Majority Report’ joins to discuss the war in Iran. (0:00) Intro (07:12) ICE and TSA (20:52) 'Bachelorette' season cancelled (51:10) Justin Timberlake arrest video (1:03:14) The return of the movie star (1:11:10) The biracial jihad (1:23:20) Emma Vigeland joins the show Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Emma Vigeland Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Jade Whaley Social Producer: Bernard Moore Video Supervision: Chris Thomas and Jacob Cornett Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Howe Learning is on. It's I. Van Lathen Jr. And it is me, Rachel Lennon. The Lakers are hot. Oh my God. I forget how much of a Laker fan you are.

The Lakers are hot. Hey, man. Shout out to Anthony Sella. Shout out to all my Lakers fans out there. Shout out to Jomey. Where Jomey at. Jomey, come in this bitch. No, no, no.

We don't need all that counts. Shout out to Jomey. Shout out to Lakers are hot. I'm happy. It's good for the city. Also, yes, you guys. A nine-game winning streak? Nine-game winning streak, man.

I was about to say best in the league. I'll say this. I'll say this. There are reasons why the Lakers are hot. One reason. Obviously, the stellar play of Luca, making a late MVP push. It's a big deal. Okay.

The steady scoring hand of Austin Reeves, who is one of the best white boys. All right? That's my white boy, Austin Reeves. That's my white boy right there. Okay. Number three, Marcus Smart. Marcus Smart is a revelation on defense holding his opponents to crazy inefficient shooting nights.

What he did to end not too long ago, fantastic. Marker Smart's playing great defense. He's also hitting timely threes, Marcus Smart. Which one got hurt? I mean, they've been hurt, but like, oh, wait, no, no, no. Sorry, thinking of somebody totally different. Marcus Smart, Texas. Totally think of something.

Totally think of something. Well, he went to. Oklahoma. No, no, I mean, from Texas. It's from like Flower Mouth. Yeah. Okay. And then the last one, last but not least, man, you got to give it up to the king, man.

LeBron James has found a way to play off ball to really thrive, like out of the dunker spot, really get to the rim. He's playing off Luca. He's using the gravity that Luca creates to get easy scoring opportunities. And when you swing the ball with LeBron. The IQ just goes through the roof, the passes that he can make to open shooters. In this time, the Lakers are knocking down a tremendous amount of their threes, which they were struggling with before. And a lot of that has to do with the fact that LeBron James is one of the smartest basketball players ever.

And when he bought in to this role that he's playing at 41 years of age, he is playing this role better than almost anybody in the league could. So a lot of this has to do with just how sensationally LeBron is playing right now. But I'm telling you, the Lake Show is in this bit. We're in the motherfucker. Big man. Shout out to the motherfucker Laker, man. Shout out Jack.

Hey, man. Shout out to Jack. Hey, man. Shout out of the nigga Jagger, man. Shout out of the nigga Jagger, man. Got the white boys on the goddamn car. They're still winning that motherfucker man. Shout to all these motherfuckers out here on the Lakers, man.

We're doing our thing, man. That's what we do. Lake of Time. We got Emma Viglin on the show later on. Okay. You want to talk about basketball. We should be talking about Texas. Texas what?

Texas what? Are you not watching the tournament? I've seen it. Okay. The burnt orange? Come on. You're proud of you? Both men and women.

They're doing well. They're doing well. That's something to talk about. That's exciting. That's exciting. The tournament is exciting. Shout out to the tournament. No, we still got more the regular season left.

We still got, but we got time to see what the Lakers do. We're don't. Well, we'll see what happens. But right now we're having fun with it. Shout out to everybody in the tournament that's getting busy. Shout out to all of the different teams. And y'all going crazy and the tournament going crazy. and the tournament going crazy.

That's me saying because I've watched only like five games. I know, I haven't watched that much. So I've watched games that were important. I've watched the LSU ladies go out there and do their thing as well. So shout out to everything happening in the NCAA tournament. You know who watches? He snuck up on me this year. Tate Fraser is watching every second of every game.

Okay. Tate Frazier is hitting me up. Tate Frazier is like, Van, you got to see this one guard from Sienna. He's nuts. He's a fucking Van, Van, Iona is a live dog tonight. Hey, Van, Van. I'm like, Tate, you know, just like, Relax.

This is Tate's time of year, though. All right, Emma Viglin's later on. We talked about that. I would like to say real quick, thank you to everyone. Thank you to Omeaded everybody at Coca-Cola. You guys, you watch the commercial, the SkyPipa commercial. I am the voice of Mr. Pibb. I had a fantastic experience working with everyone.

The cohesive thought from the commercials. to the execution. They made me feel very comfortable. I was able to meet Scottie Pippen the entire deal. We didn't do it together. Scottie shot his shot, his shit on one day,

and I came in and voiced my stuff on another day. It was very, very, very fun and so easy to work with everyone there. It was fantastic. Also, I'll say this. A lot of people are saying,

hey, man, Scottie's taking shots at Michael Jordan and all of that stuff. I think this is funny. It was funny. I think this is funny. funny. I think you see Pib there. Pib is leaning into the fact that Dr. Pepper is really well known and all of that. I think Scotty doing the whole last dance end up. This is the way you should make fun. Right, right, right, right. Or lean into a narrative that's been around. He was awesome to work with. Everyone was awesome to work with. I had a lot of fun doing it.

Interesting that people can like recognize you from your voice like that. You don't think you have a recognizable voice? I never thought it until this time. Oh, yeah. It seems like you don't like the voice. I'm going to be honest. I literally have been working with you for almost six years. Clearly, I like your voice. It seems like when you said that you're like, oh, yeah. No, I meant like I'm just surprised because you do have a very distinct voice. I like your voice. I think I do too.

But to your point, I don't think I do. Yeah. But people tell me that. You know what? I like your voice because some people are very annoying voices. I took that. What you just did? I took that as disrespect.

What? That's what they said in the? Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. I took that personal. And that's what Jordan said. That's what Jordan said. That's what Jordan said. And I took that person.

That's what Jordan said. Man, shout out Scottie. I'm team Scotty now. As long as it comes with a check. All right. Okay. Company, man. Company.

Now, we're going to talk a lot of politics with Emma later. A lot of politics. Very good conversation, guys. Iran, Cuba, ice, filibuster, lots of Iran. We haven't done a lot of Iran stuff. We got deep, deep, deep, deep. deep into Iran with Emma. Saw Emma last night as well.

I did the Bituation Room live podcast. Ida Rodriguez, myself, Francesca, Emma. We had a lot of fun there at the... Where was it? It's at the Dynasty typewriter. Okay. Know what that is?

I'm still learning L.A. It's like on Wilshire, east almost like to MacArthur Park. Okay. So Korea Town. A little past Korea Town. Okay, okay. A little past Korea Town.

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Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See terms at Fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. just some real quick hitters. Do we have the speaker? Are we going to be able to hear? We need the headphones. All right.

Donnie? What up? Ice agents. Oh, look at you. You're very excited. I'll just say this real quick, Donnie. You do a good job voicing this stuff, but a lot of people loved the sound of Jade's voice.

And there was some discussion. Welcome back, Donnie. If that's the case, then y'all can take them headphones right off. And Jay can do it. She is going to do it. Donnie, yeah. Talk your shit.

Donnie, politics first. All right. Let's talk about ice and travel. The federal agents have been deployed to 14 airports to help with crowd management during the ongoing Department of Homeland Security shutdown. Border is our time home and said that the agents would be there to release TSA officers from non-significant roles. But Secretary of Transportation, Sean Duffy, offered a conflicting plan on Sunday with a broader

role for ICE agents. Crazy stuff. What do you think the takeaway from this is? What I was going to say is something you talk about in the conversation with Emma, about where this thing is leading. So I don't want to talk about that because I like the discussion that we have with Emma with that. But I think they are doing this because they are trying to normalize the presence of ice.

I also am seeing a lot of people talk about Project 2025 and how this was always a part of the plan and how they. They want the privatization of ICE within the airports. They want to get rid of TSA. They want to privatize airport security. So I had seen that before, obviously. And so when I saw this happening, I thought, oh, okay, because even without the interview we saw on CNN, was it seen in, I think it was, with Tom Honan, or even what Patrick Duffy is talking about, of course, the immediate question is, is ICE properly trained to do it? And this seemed to be announced very quickly without even, you know, Department of Homeland Security saying, yes, they've been receiving training because this was going to happen.

It just seemed like something Trump announced. And then, bam, we're told Monday today, as we're recording this, they're going to be at airports. So we're already seeing video of them capturing people and holding them down at airports. San Francisco airport. I don't know if you saw the footage. Already, first thing this morning. Did you see that? Yeah.

woman was daughter is crying oh i did see this yes the woman is fighting and they're telling people listen it's this we're going to see this happen as ice is going to be at airports 14 airports to date and they're saying you need to if you're there and you have your camera you need to ask for the name the date of birth a phone number to call and get that because once they're taken away who knows what's going to happen but yeah i i personally think that they want to normalize the presence of ice and leading to some of the things, the objectives that they're trying to accomplish from Project 2025.

I also think this is a way to punish the American people. Four. To emiserate the American people so that Trump doesn't lose the battle over not only the Save Act, but also ICE funding here. Because what's happening here, so people know, we're in the 37th day,

or close to it, I'm not sure. Maybe more now. Of the DHS shut down. Now, there's something brewing here. The majority leader in the Senate, John Thune, has told Senate Republicans, has told the White House, should I say,

that Senate Republicans would actually support funding all of DHS except ICE, which is what the Democrats put on the table. We'll fund it all. We'll fund TSA. We'll fund all this other stuff. but we won't fund ICE until there are more negotiations over different stipulations in, you know,

their negotiations and how they want ICE to move forward. They want reforms, right? So they'd say we fund everything else, but we're not going to fund ICE. All right. Thune is actually okay with that. Like a lot of the Senate Republicans have actually intimated that they are okay with that.

They said that ICE funding could be handled later on in a reconciliation bill. All right. Now, in that, the Democrats wouldn't get some of the, demands that they've really been chasing, which banning masks, requiring judicial warrants, if reconciliation happened,

the Republicans would still kind of win. There would be other things that the Democrats would get, but the Republicans would still win on some of the issues that have been key and central to ICE. Trump doesn't want to do it. Because? Trump said no. He wants the Republicans to stay in D.C. because he wants them to fight with the Democrats,

over the DHS funding and over the Save America Act. So Trump doesn't want to put the kibosh on all of this and get people back flying because he wants his version of America. Right. He wants ICE to stay the way that they are. He doesn't want to capitulate on that. And he wants to push them on the Save Act. Right.

He also has threatened that he would come out and publicly bash any Republicans that were in favor of accepting this deal with the Democrats. So, all of that being what it is, you have long lines at airports all over the country.

You know he doesn't give a fuck about that. What can you do? You can do what Trump has done in the past during these shutdown battles, which is immiserate Americans. Now, you would think that he had learned his lesson with what happened in Minneapolis

in terms of how bad it can get when ice overreaches and people decide that they're not going to take that. I don't think he's learned anything. I think what he's learned is that the public doesn't have a stomach for this type

of discourse, particularly when they're flying around and stuff like that and the summer is coming. So now the battle will become a political battle and this political battle will be whose fault is it that these terrible things are happening in airports.

And Trump will bet and the right will bet that they can lay this on the Democrats. Yeah. I mean, I say I don't see how they can. But you're right. It's very obvious that, well, one, I will say, what happened and, you know, thinking of the families that were impacted

and the lives that were lost in the crash that happened at LaGuardia with the Air Canada flight and the truck, when you see things like that happen, I don't think that that is, and I'm not trying to politicize that, I'm just saying, we know that that is what they're trying to do.

When you see things that happen like that, a tragedy like that, that does not do, in my opinion, Trump and his administration any favors. I don't think that that does well for the Republicans. I think that the Democrats have to keep, we've talked about messaging before, have to keep pushing the message out there

that they have, put out, I think at least the bill seven times in the Senate. They are trying to get it done. ICE isn't losing money. They want more money. I think also putting the fact that these workers at the TSA, first off, we've already lost more than 400 TSA workers have quit since the partial government shut down on Valentine's Day. Four hundred have quit. Where things came to a peak this weekend is because almost 12% of TSA employees did not come to work. You're seeing what's happening. It's affecting travel. It's affecting lives with what we saw in LaGuardia. But at the same time, you're hearing stories where people are coming out. They cannot pay their bills.

They cannot afford to survive. They cannot afford to live. That is the thing that needs to be upfront. Trump does not care about your well-being to even live. And we've seen that in numerous ways, right, but particularly with this and it comes to TSA employees and the fight that he's trying to push and trying to create this narrative that Democrats are not willing to work with him. I think the more you put out those stories about human beings and how they are suffering and directly being impacted and how the government does not care about whether or not you can pay your bill, whether or not you can survive. That's what we need to be putting out there even more. But I think right now, this is problematic for the Trump administration. Well, he's in charge. Well, I mean, look, there are a lot of things that should be problematic for the administration.

I think what I don't know, I don't know how it be perceived. Like the first shutdown, I thought the Democrats had, first shutdown, yeah, somebody shut down. Well, just this with the health care. I thought the Democrats had an hour-clad case as to why they were doing it. I think the way it ended up, it just depends on who you ask in terms of, like, who you feel like won that, right? But I do believe that it really doesn't matter what actually looks bad for the Trump administration. What matters then? Well, what matters is how they can spin it, right?

Because I would have said that going out, and we'll talk more about this with Emma, and campaigning for nearly two years on being the anti-war candidate, and then starting two wars, I'd have argued that that looked bad. I'd argue that that type of direct rebuke of your own rhetoric would look bad and would be embarrassing. It's almost on the level of a George H.W. Bush, read my lips, no new taxes situation.

Then you don't do that. And everybody goes, hey, bro, you said no new taxes, you're fucked, right? But they don't care because there's a part of their base that believes in the, I guess, divine will and thought process of Donald Trump. The question is, can they drum up enough to indict the Democrats over the fact that there is chaos at American airports? It should look bad for them. So many things should.

What happened in Minneapolis, I think, was one of the things that got closest to penetrating. Oh, it did. The veneer of Trump can do no wrong, and you watch them. kind of take some action, obviously no them lost her job, all of that stuff. The question is how they're able to sell this and if they can still sell it the same whether they used to. I think that absolutely penetrated.

I think with this, and you just maybe think of something when you're saying it, I do believe if the Democrats really focus on the humanity and the loss of people and that go and tie that into with health care, with inflation, with the

economy, and how it's this like continuing thing that is happening under the Trump administration, I think they can be successful in that messaging pointing towards the Trump administration. But something you said made me think of it the other way, how they can spend at the Trump administration. September, shutdown. I'm with you. Healthcare, right there. We talked about it at great length on this podcast. I think they should have, Democrats should have held the line. They didn't, right? Then, so things move forward. the DHS is

it's open or the I'm sorry the shutdown is is over with and people get paid right so they can point to that and say see see what for people who don't have a deeper understanding of it or aren't trying to do it it's like well see once they

decided to agree with us everybody got paid see what I'm saying when they hold out people don't get paid they lose money they can't afford to live just all they need to do is do what they did before and everything would be okay I can easily see how someone who is not tapped in

could fall into that. Right, with all the distractions that you're on and all of that stuff. There's just a lot going on right now for people to stay. Right. But these, but ICE videos like this? Yeah. This is bad. This goes right back to Minnesota. It just goes right back to it and once again,

ice will fuck up. They don't know what they're doing and they have it's the double whammy of them not knowing what they're doing, not being trained, but also having a low quality of people in these jobs. Yeah.

Having a certain type of mentality undergird or whatever. Look for the flowery word right there. The niggas stink fucking crazy. They're militarized. They're proud boy adjacent slap dicks. They're all hammers. Everything looks like a nail. It's legitimately the worst type of person you want in an airport when people are cranky.

Some people are nervous. Sensitivities are heightened. the last thing that you need in a situation like that is an ICE agent who doesn't know how to do anything other than escalate a situation that is going off the rest. We actually don't appreciate TSA workers

enough. No, we don't. We don't. We don't. And this, just all of this that's happening has shown even more so why we're sure. All right, Donnie, Rach, reach clear out. I love it. I love it. Yeah, I'll let you take the lead on this, Rach. I'll set it up. The same day as ABC announced the season's cancellation of The Bachelorette,

Warner Brothers held a meeting with all but 22 of the cast members of Taley Frankie Paul's season. Lawyers reportedly told them that all of their contracts will be in place for a year and that opportunities to appear on shows like Bachelor in Paradise were discussed. And on the legal side of things, it looks like five contestants are considering legal action against ABC and Warner Brothers. They reportedly feel that they put their lives and jobs on hold for the show, only for it to be scrapped before it aired.

They'll also allegedly believe that the production created an unsafe work environment by allowing Taylor to interact with them in intimate settings despite her past violent allegations. Why do you want me to sound off? What do you want me to go? So when we did our last podcast...

They put these men in danger. When we did our last podcast, the video had come out. Yeah. And we were speculating on what would happen, but the show had not been canceled. Now, if you listen to Bachelor Party, which I suggest that you do.

We were two minutes into that podcast when the announcement came through that ABC had canceled it and so you get our real-time reactions for it. Listen, I don't think the men have a strong case when it comes to this because I am sure within their contracts, I have to go back and look at mine,

but I'm sure within their contracts, it's, you know, they have the right to do whatever they want to with the footage and that includes even airing them on. Like you're not guaranteed, even if the season did air, you're not guaranteed that you yourself will get any screen time. So I'm sure, I don't know how successful this would be, but I understand the sentiment of wanting to do it. Now, there was plenty of information out there before about Taylor Frankie Paul.

I've seen the first episode. And I remember, and this isn't giving too much, but I just remember people were saying, like, I'm aware, you know, that you have a big social media presence, or I'm aware. that there's a lot of information out there about you, but the sentiment was like, I want to get to know you. So, you know, how do you know that these people didn't willingly go on knowing as well about her past? But it seems like everybody's kind of like they didn't know the extent. And I think in light of these new domestic violence allegations from an incident that allegedly

happened at the end of February, that it's causing people to question certain things. I mean, I said this on Bachelor Party, I would be upset if I was somebody who left my job, because sometimes people do that, who maybe took a pay cut to take time off, who, you know, this isn't a secret. They're fathers that are on this season because, you know, that's a good match for her, as somebody who has children too, that took time away from their kids, other people took time away from their family. It's just I can see why they would be upset.

Now, I don't think going on Bachelor in Paradise, if that even happened. because, you know, I'm of the opinion that I think things are over. But I don't think that's the answer. But maybe they should be let out of their contracts in regards to, like, still an NDA. They can't talk about the season, but they should be able to do other opportunities, whether it's social media, whether it's brand deals, whether it's going on another show. I think that they should allow these men to at least be able to do that and not hold them to, because nobody knows what's going to happen.

And for me, and I'm curious for you, Van, I can't. I can't see how it would move forward because I can't see sponsors wanting to attach their name to the Bachelor franchise. Now, you know, Taylor, Frankie Paul is coming out and saying that it's been a statement from her people that they can't wait for her to tell her side of the story. She's been very silent about things that she has suffered through that weren't on the video or weren't on camera. and she's looking forward to telling her side. I absolutely believe, this is my opinion, that she also suffered. I think that there is having watched both shows,

or what I would have watched with that's right, watching Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, I do think that there is abuse, alleged, this is my opinion, coming from both sides. But that doesn't excuse violent behavior from anybody. But I do think that that's, it's a very extremely toxic relationship and that's something that she has said multiple times.

So I don't know. We'll see. You want me to go off, don't you? No, no, I don't. What makes you think that there's abuse coming from both sides? So there's this, as terms do on social media, right? Like, gaslighting became a thing. My truth was a thing everybody, they still like to say.

Narcissist, the person's a narcissist is a thing people like to say. With this, the term reactive abuse is coming out. and you know I have not suffered from domestic violence so I'm not trying to speak on behalf of people that have and I also apologize if this is triggering to those who have suffered from it I want to put that out there and we should do a disclaimer but reactive abuse a lot of people are talking about it in my opinion who are not qualified to talk about it and using it to justify what they saw in the video and I'm not denying that something did happen to her we don't know what happened before the recording started. We don't know what happened in their relationship before. We don't know what happened in between, before a bachelorette, or even after that led to these new allegations. We'll never know the whole story, and I've said this before, but the reactive abuse is somebody pushes you to a point, and this is me paraphrasing, to a point where you react to that. Even if you take it at face value as that, it's still violence. So both things can be true.

Somebody can be a victim of reactive abuse, and they can. can also be abusive. Are they also going to be violent? Like there's domestic violence at that. Like it doesn't necessarily excuse violent behavior. And I think that you have to hold both of those things to be true. But I'm seeing it being litigated online where people are using it as a justification. This is where the conversation gets actually dangerous.

Mm-hmm. I agree. The conversation around this is really some bullshit. I mean, domestic violence is. a plague on our society and we've talked about it in different ways with different people for so long, right?

We've talked about what it means to live in a household where, you know, you sleep next to your abuser, right? That's, I'm not going to act like that is not just an issue, a thought, a conversation that we have to have incessantly all the time. I'm not going to act like that. This part of it, though,

is the part that to me is the most bullshit. Now, I'm going to say again what I said before. I do believe that there is a difference just based on physicality, the amount of harm you can do based off of entrance, social structures, the power matrix, the history, all of that. There's a difference between what I witnessed

on video between Taylor Frankie Paul and that guy there's a difference between that and what that would have been like if it would have been on the other side because he can kill her because of the history

of women in those types of situations so what the fuck y'all want to say I'll look at that and I go that's a difference I'm 6'4 I'm 267 pounds my weight is down boom boom boom there's a difference between me doing violence to a woman and a woman doing violence to me. Now obviously pick up a fucking knife, hit me with a fucking bat, all of this stuff.

If that woman is Rhonda Rouse or Gina Carter, whatever, right? There are caveats to all of this. But on average, there are. I'll say something about what you just said, though. If what you just said reactive violence, if that is an actual thing that wouldn't reshue, the violence that goes on in this situation. That would reshape a lot. The other side of violence.

Yeah. That would reshape the, your mother is a whore. Your mama ain't shit. Fuck you. Fuck your kids. Fuck your dad. Fuck all. Fuck, blah, blah, blah.

You are this, somebody fucking your car up. Like, that if, if this right here is an actual thing. If the argument is someone can push you to hit them, that opens up a grand amount, a grand amount of excuse making that is going to come from some of the worst areas of this conversation and the Internet. I'm telling you, I'm sure that this is a thing. but if we decide that we decide if there are people that are saying hey she lost her cool and put her hands on this man

and then hit him with a chair whatever she did all of this stuff but he was so mean to her that he made her do that that is a fundamental lack of agency being described and promoted on her side, it almost absolves her

of any of the actions of herself. And by the way, there are going to be a lot of guys who pull that same card. No, it's so problematic. And we may not trying to say that this reactive abuse thing isn't a real thing. No, I do believe it's a real thing. And I think more of an to understand,

but I don't think it shouldn't be used as an excuse or justification, which is what I'm seeing online. And I should say, you know, it's more than, oh, he was mean to me or said something. You know, it could be a push. It could be a shove on both sides when it terms of... Well, then if that's the case, then you're accusing him directly of being an abuser. And if that is the case, this is like if, if this is, if she is responding with violence to violence, then he's the abuser and she's responding with violence.

That, to me, is different than this sort of rubric where, you can be mean enough to somebody and incite them to hit you. I understand that emotionally and as a human being and everyone listening to the sound of my voice knows that that's real because everybody listening to the sound of my voice

would have to make a decision whether or not they go in somebody's motherfucking mouth if a white person called them a nigger. You make the decision about whether or not you're triggered enough to deal with the consequences of meeting out consequences in that situation. And like if she has done a number of interviews post-20203 that people, like I didn't see them before, but now all of this stuff is coming out where she says I was the aggressor. She says these certain things. Now, I also want to say this. Now, when she was announced, I put up a video talking about it. And I went back and I watched it. And a lot of people, like, it was like half and half.

People were like, is Rachel serious? Is she not? Is she aware of certain things? Like, this is problematic. Obviously, Taylor Frankie Paul should have never been the Bachelorette, right? Like, that's obvious. I was still going to watch it. And I say in the video, it was a chaotic choice.

It was a hot, it's going to be a hot ass mess. And that this was the new, I said, I'm a person who has pushed for diversity and inclusion within this franchise, maybe this is their new form of diversity and inclusion. I was trolling them in saying that, but I was going to watch the hot mess of it all fall apart. But when I go back and I watch, and I talked a little bit about this on either morally corrupt or bachelor party, I knew that there had been an arrest. I didn't, and this is where I am at fault, do my full research to understand the extent

of the arrest and all the charges that had initially been placed on. on her. I, and I even realize how uninformed I was, because when I went back and watched the video, I talk about how polarizing she's going to be. I talk about, I understand it being a business decision, and that makes sense if that's how you're looking at this show now, you know, because people aren't watching it in the same way and you're not keeping up with these other dating shows. You're still doing it based on how you did it 20 years ago and people aren't buying that anymore. So I understood that from a business perspective. But I say she's polarizing because of all these things. I say alleged domestic violence.

In that video, I don't even recognize that she had been charged with something. Now, she was in charge with, like, all four or five of whatever it originally was. She's a woman. But I, but I, but I, for whatever reason. But if there was a bachelor, though, if there was a bachelor, though, if there was a bachelor and there had been any allegation of domestic violence fucking period. Maybe. But I'm not doing, I'm not doing the if, if it was a bachelor.

I said, I said on the last podcast, if they've been. a man. I said, you don't even have to say it. I'm going to say it. If they look different, if they had been a man. I don't want this rant I'm about to do to be it if it was a man. I am taking responsibility because I did not do my research for whatever reason. I did not know the full extent. I did not know it was a felony. I did not know that it was, and I'm not saying this to excuse myself. I am saying I didn't do the research. I did not know she was charged with the felony. I didn't know she was currently on probation. I have no idea, which is part of why these new allegations are outside of being the seriousness of domestic violence. And now they're

talking about custody here with the children. Also, it could be a violation of her probation. I don't know what the terms of her probation are, but she's still under it. But when I posted the video in ways I was trolling the franchise because although I planned on watching the show, because I watched Secret Lives of Mormon-Wise, it was funny to me that the show wanted to take this risk but for you to have a lead of color, that was too risky, right? When it came to, hey, we're going to have our first lead of color, which took 15 years, that person had to be damn near perfect on paper because that had to make sense to your audience. They had to be digestible to your audience.

So it was funny to me that this is okay, right? Divorce and I'm divorced, no shame, but just the ideal bachelorette, what they have presented to us over these 20 plus years was not this, not someone with two baby daddies, divorced, three kids, a soft swinging scandal, and a felon. Right? You understand though because you did the same thing. What are you talking about?

So like none of this, I mean, the obvious, okay, so the obvious red flags here, I can't speak about the bachelor red flags. The bachelor red flags as far as how pure you have to be to be a bachelor, that right there is that only you would know that. Like if they're changing it and they're like, we want a party girl in here, that's one thing. All of that makes a lot of sense.

But the same reason why they didn't see this as. They knew this. I know. But the reason why it didn't flash red lights, don't do it, don't do it, is the same reason why people were uninterested in the depth and the severity of what she had done because there's no stigma behind it.

No, no, no, I get it. You keep going back to that. I'm going to let you have your rant about the stigma and all of that. I agree with you. I know, but what I'm telling you is like the answer to the question is actually in. But you're telling me, I ignored it because she was a woman, and I'm not going to say that's true. I'm explaining you. I didn't do my research, but I'm trying to explain to you that part of it was,

I thought it was funny that you're willing to take this risk. As a person who's been through it and has experienced it, other people that might have been the reason. That was not my reason. And I thought, seriously, after everything that I've been through with this franchise, as of other people of color, as people for me, this is the risk you want to take. And even more so, a former executive producer, somebody told this to me, multiple people actually told me this. A former executive producer, no longer with the show, said that DEI ruined the Bachelor franchise. Obviously, that's not the case, right? as we don't know what the future of the franchise in 20 plus years, it's never been canceled.

At the end of the day, when you thought adding diversity in the form of color is what caused the franchise to crumble, it turned out at the end of the day it was a white felon. I think that that's, that's, I mean, come on, like this. I don't think irony is the right word, but it's like, and I say this from a personal way of having been through it, It was so you can't act like this. You can't, we're not going to air this scene because the audience will name you an angry black female. You can't do, you can't go confront your men because you're frustrated with something you're hearing because that won't look good. I was so risky for me to be opinionated or have a personality.

But think about how interesting it is that then you have this and that's the risk you want to take. So it wasn't the lead of color that caused your franchise to crumble. It was that you thought it was okay for a white felon to lead the franchise. And that would be okay with being the new bachelorette. And I do want to say this also. When I say that I was trolling and I say that, you know, I wanted to watch it. I'm not saying it because I condone any kind of domestic violence or any alleged child abuse or anything like that. I really wanted to watch what I thought was going to be a very hot mess of a season.

I never could have thought that there would be new domestic violence allegations that these children would be in the middle of it who at the end of the day, that's who we should be focusing on anyway, not the fact that your favorite show got canceled or anything. It's these children's lives are at stake. This video is now public. They will eventually see this one day. They don't know if they're ending up with mother, father, grandparent. They just don't know. So at the end of the day, like, I could not have anticipated this type of chaos, even though. I wanted to seek similar chaos to what I see in secret lives of Mormon wives.

But I will say it's also still crazy how there are people online that still blame me for even this latest issue in Bachelor Nation. They blame me for Soup Kitchen leaving the franchise. And they say if that never happened, then this wouldn't happen. And it shouldn't shock me, right? Because, I don't know, there are people or fans out there. particularly fans of this franchise who will always find a way to

blame the black woman without ever holding the other ones accountable. But when I go back and I think about it, Chris Harrison goes on a 15-minute rant that reveals his most inner thoughts and how he felt to an audience that had never seen him react that way. But it was I who set him up and made him say it. Hannah Brown says nigger on live,

on the IG live. Blamed a brother first. Then people were like, no, that was you. I put out a video after trying to get her to work with her on it. I put out a video explaining how harmful this word is to this Bachelor Nation audience who for some reason can't get it. And I am blamed for not giving her grace and not giving her space and not understanding her, right?

You're being too hard on her. On my season, my number two guy tells me that I will love. live a mediocre life if I don't choose him. And then I watched it in live time and I turned to him after seeing that because I forgot he said that and I said, just so you know, I'm living my best life actually. And I was at commercial break, they ran over to me. Chris Harrison leans to me and says, you need to calm down and I'm like, for what? Online I was a bitch. I was nasty. I was all these things. somehow it was my fault, even though I didn't even say the derogatory comment. And now it's Taylor's season getting canceled.

And somehow it's my fault because it was my interview with Chris Harrison that did, that no longer made him the host. And all I'll say is the fact that you can't hold the responsible people accountable is why people like this continue to fell upwards. and situations like this, like the cancellation of your favorite show, continue to happen. People need to be held responsible for what they do and stop trying to find a scapegoat, in particular with a bachelor nation, black people or me in this instance, and start recognizing that these things are happening because of these people's very actions. It ain't nobody's fault but theirs. So I want to apologize to the audience real quick.

I failed to read the room here. I was talking about, Rachel was getting her shit off and she got to get her shit off. Like, I get it. I actually, I apologize, I failed to read the room. I thought we were like talking about the thing. And, but all of that is true.

As it relates to The Bachelor. I think, though, that the reason why they made her the Bachelor, you hit it once again while you were talking. Oh, I know why they made her The Bachelorette. So like because she had because like people will watch it. And you said that you wanted to watch it.

Of course. Right. But my intention for watching it is not probably not the same as the next. What you mean? I said I'm watching it because I knew it was going to be a shit show. Now I didn't know it was going to be this. But I knew it wasn't going to be what they thought it was going to be. But they would, I knew they would get their viewership.

Right. I absolutely knew. People like me were coming back out of curiosity. Well, curiosity, one thing, but it was a little deeper than that for me. But multiple people were coming back. A new audience was coming in from TikTok. It's the same reason they have these people on Dancing with the Stars. It brings in a new audience.

And I said this in my video. You're all going to watch it. Whether you're going to hate watch it or not. The viewership I knew was undeniable. And that's why I said it's a good business decision. But for me, I watch Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. I see how unpredictable she can be.

Now, again, I did not think this would happen. I am not condoning this. I guess the only thing I'm saying is that that calculus that you're talking about was a part of their decision. So she was... Of course. So she essentially was, if I go by

what it is that you're saying and what happens on the Secret Mormon show that they had made a decision purposefully to go. go for a different type of bachelorette. So the standard of the old bachelorette, they purposefully decided. Which I was okay with.

Right. And so they should get rid of that. I said that. And so the standard, so the fact that they didn't use that is a part of the decision making here. I'll say here that this is actually sort of a Ray Rice situation in that people understood that there was a Ray Rice situation between him and his wife before the video came out.

And once again, In that situation, people were uninterested in what actually had happened. Ray Rice had a situation with his wife. I think they, I believe, if I remember correctly, I'm trying to unremember because, you know, the whole time. They went through some sort of diversion program and it was whatever it was. Then the video came out. They also got married right after. Yeah, whatever.

Like they had had gotten married. They went through a diversion program. It seemed like whatever issue had happened between Ray Rice and his wife. that the legal system had deemed it to not be that big of a deal because he was on the other side of it. Then the video comes out and everybody goes, wait a minute, that is a big deal, right? That is actually a big deal. That's because the standard for an NFL player committing domestic violence at that time was incredibly low. It was something that we realized at that point that athletes do every now and again.

There was a thought that every now and again, there is going to be some type of story with some athlete in the NFL. He's a boxer somewhere beating on their girl. And if it is not like ground shattering and earth changing, people let that shit go. Like Ray Rice kind of changed that. Like Ray Rice changed that situation. That video comes out and everybody had to ask the question,

change it to a degree. change it to a degree. They're still guys. That video came out and everybody had to ask a question, yo, they doing that? I don't know what they thought that the niggas was doing or what they thought people were doing, but they were like, wait, they're doing that?

He took his hand and smacked the shit out of her and then drug her body in there and we saw it and everybody went, no. So when they put this woman on here and she had this shit, people probably thought, no big deal, something went wrong, nothing bad. But if you're ABC or you're anyone else and she's involved in all of this messiness,

they probably went, ah, this is part for the course for someone who is slightly dangerous, right? I think that NBC News put out a, there was a Zoom call because you're also hearing her cast from Secret Lives of Mormon Wives speak out. They're saying they warned ABC about the video. They were like, have you seen it?

There's this video out here. It wasn't public yet, similar to Ray Rice, what you're saying. There was also, you know, they were saying, they don't know if she's mentally healthy because as a viewer, If you watched last season, you saw her go, I could look at this picture.

Look at the eyes. I'm not going to do all that. But if you had watched last season of, if you watched last season of Secret Mormon Wives, she went to a retreat or rehab. I don't know if it was rehab. Like, not rehab necessarily for drugs or alcohol, but like I guess she went on a retreat.

She's very calm. She's kind of the voice of reason. In season three, she's totally different from what you see in one and two. And so it's like, oh, wow, she's really done the work on herself. She's really stepping into something else. Her castmates are now coming out and saying, oh, she got a really good edit. So this is why I'm saying it's going to be really hard for ABC or this production company,

whether it's Bachelor or even Secret Lives of Mormon Wives because they're different. You were keeping stuff from the public to give a certain narrative that things were on the to recovery that things were better. I don't, and so somebody was hiding stuff as cast members are coming out. So I think this is why I say it's going to be hard for them to escape it because it's going to be, well, who was it? How much did the higher ups know? And if some of them at the top didn't, who was stopping it?

Who was buffering it? That's what this NBC news thing shows. There's a Zoom call where they're trying to tell this executive at ABC and they're going, I don't think we should get into that right now. I'll tell you what. She's going to be on somebody TV. We have to talk about something. I had predicted on the last podcast that they weren't going to take her season off.

I just didn't think that they would. I was wrong. And then we went back. I was like, yo, let's update because as soon as we was over, we took that out the pod. We should have left it in there because that was my thought that they would not undo a whole season of television. and I will now say this is now my thought this lady going to be on somebody TV

this is too much runway this is too much runway I don't know if it's going to be secret lives of the Mormons or certainly doesn't seem like it's going to be the Bachelor but there is going to be an outlet

a reality show outlet I don't know if she's going to join the cast of Upper Decks Blue Decks Zeus Network Zeus Baddies They go crazy

Let me take her Like I'm She's going to be on some body's television as this plays out. I don't, someone is going to, this is, if you're ABC right now, you're in a blender, right? So you can't think about it. If you, if you're ABC, you're in a blender. So you all let things come down. I don't think it'll be ABC.

But if you somewhere else, this is too fertile grand to ground, should I say, to plant eyes in. She's going to be somewhere. I will say that they're saying it's canceled, but people are saying it might just be on pause. That they're seeing, I don't know if they're, I'm sure they're working things out internally, maybe with sponsors, maybe seeing how the public reacts to it.

I mean, there's a huge, a lot of people still want to see her on TV. They still want to, as we talked about the top of this, as we talked about the top of this, they still want to do that. But, you know. Well, good news for Chapel, Ron. We went too long on that

So you off the hook Be nice to kids All right Justin Timberlake Yeah His the footage of his arrest From two years ago now Was released by police

After his lawyers had tried to Sue them to block the release Of the video arguing That it would devastate his privacy But they ended up Acknowled that it wouldn't do that And allowed the release of it So the reason for it stops

Because you're Bearing off to the left And then you're not stopping At the stop signs Yeah, sorry about that. Is this your vehicle? Who's vehicle is it? Look at it.

It's a rental. You guys need to be watching. Do you have any registration with it? Look at the fear in the eyes of the timber snake. Look at this. How long are you renting it for? Just for a couple of days. Some of my favorite parts are coming up.

Yeah, I'm on tour. What are you doing? Softly trying to say, I'm famous. Watch. What? It's hard to explain. Doing what? I can't tell you, I sing and dance for hundreds of thousands of people.

I've been doing it for years. You know me, niggas. I'm not playing. A world tour. I'm just Timberlake. Look, he tried. He did it in a good way. Pause this real quick.

That is one of the most artful, don't you know who I am that I've ever seen? And I've seen them all. I've seen. Why was it so artful? Because you got to be really, really subtle with the, Don't You Know Who I Am or it comes off as Don't You Know Who I Am. I've seen people do it.

I've seen all kinds of videos at TMZ or people just straight up going, I've seen people go not just don't you know who I am. I've seen people go, don't you know who my father is? I love that one. I love that one. Don't you know who my dad is, bitch? I've been in this. This whole fucking city is mine.

I love that one. But when you do the don't you know who I am, if it comes off wrong, then you actually undercut your project. Your project is to leverage the fact that you are beloved into preferential treatment. So if you just straight up go, man, you know who you fucking with, nigga?

Bye, bye, bye. Like, you can't do it that way. What Justin did was he went, first of all, he said, that like he wasn't sure that he was just in Timberlake. He also assumed that this cop could not understand

that he goes on a world tour entertaining people. The first thing that he said was, I'm on a world tour. That's a subtle, don't you know who I am? That's a flex. Come on. It's a flex. It's a subtle flex. You said world. Oh, I'm on a world tour. I don't know what y'all got in this little

big town. I don't know. I don't know what y'all do around here, but I'm worldwide. Bitch! I've been to places that you ain't never been to before. My tour than going to Sri Lanka. I've been there. I've been to Hong Kong singing and dancing. You don't know nothing about that.

What is it? What is it? Everybody. Now beat your feet. Now beat your feet. I didn't beat my feet in Sydney and Melbourne all over the place. Oceania. Like I've gone places you could even dream about. I'm on a world tour. The cops not getting it. The cops not understand it. The cops

still asking questions. He's still probing. He's still doing this job. And then he goes, I'm Justin Timberlake as if he didn't know that he's Justin Timberlake. I love it. And what does the officer say? You're Justin Timberlake? I need to see ID.

I need to see ID. Bitch, I don't believe you. I don't believe that you could be in this situation. Well, he didn't know who he was. Remember, that came out when it happened. He was like a younger guy and did not know, did not understand. Maybe in sync he would have received if he had his four band members with him. You think that would have done it?

if they started saying bye, bye, by, by. You think that adding J.C. Shazze to this situation gets just... And they say, in unison, we're in sync. We're in sync, maybe, because they used to do that. I know, that's why I did it like that. I was like an in-sync gap. But did you say to yourself with calm of my man when he said that at first? I did.

What? What? I'm on a world tour. I did at first. I did it first. Hey, by the way, shout out to Walee and Jasmine. Jasmine Sullivan, they flipped that bitch and I love that record. I love that record. I try to get that record for a movie

real quick, the world tour that Jolet did. Walee crazy, Walee fantastic. Y'all, niggas be hating. Anyway, all right, now, I just sit a new video into the chat. Now, I say this. Justin goes on and get arrested. Yes, his friend tries to save him. She does the dirty word.

This is some of the best white womaning. Play this video. This is some of the best white womaning that I've seen play this I know my hair sucks here, but like I usually look at so at this point He's coming with us. Okay, he's not yes, yes, no he's not why why stop it? No way no way Say it. Don't say it. Yes, don't say it. Okay, I don't see me. Watch she is using all the white woman tricks So if you're just you're just you're just you're just in time yeah stop it stop it Okay. Paul, see. Why would you arrest a drunk driver for driving drunk?

I ask you with my whiteness because my whiteness plus my celebrity is supposed to get me out of a situation where I could have killed someone. I am not in any way acting like what Justin Timberlake did was the end of the world. I thought. Well, thank God nobody was hurt. Thank God nobody was hurt. People make mistakes. I know fantastic, amazing, great people who've had one. too many thought that they could drive

and got DUIs. It's LA. Start asking your friends. One time one of my friends told me, he said he said, the van come pick me up. And I was like, cool. I was like, wait, why can't you drive? I mean, I'm a motherfucking hope from driving Miss Daisy, bitch, what you want? And he goes,

I can't drive because I have a DUI. And I was like, how did that happen? He goes, I got drunk and I hit every car on the block. and then he showed me a video of him surveillance that they used against him hitting every car on the block I mean just crashing into all of them a menace

great guy I watched this video from Justin Timberlake and the moment that he realizes that this is his fate was deeply, deeply meaningful to me. Why? They're limits. They're limits. I don't know what these cops. They should be.

I don't know what these cops were on. They were intrepid young officers of the law. I don't know why they didn't give a fuck. But their limits. They actually, for some reason, didn't care. I'm not overwhelmed. They followed the law. I get it.

Look, I'm not at like a shill for the fucking cops here. But this could be. be a really important moment in Justin's life. It could be. Justin has lived a life where his charm, his talent, his ability to go, yo, yo, yo,

yo, genuine. What's up, Doggy? All of that stuff has gotten him out of a lot of bullshit. There have been times where we need to have conversations about Justin Timberlake, but we like Justin Timberlake so we don't do it. There have been times we had to conversation,

but we like Jim so we don't do it. It didn't work this time, sometimes that's good for you take the hit the white woman it didn't work the sort of world tour shit didn't work none of it worked and then at the end of the video there's little like this vodka cam work this guy's like Christopher Nolan the way this is shot just in Timberlake perfectly framed up in the camera sitting down in the holding tank and he goes I'm gonna have to stay here and the cop goes yeah get you a couple of blankets couldn't sing his way out of it The woman said sexy back, bye, bye, bye.

She did. She did like, can't you let him go because of that? Nah, man. Just sexy ass in this jail cell. It's not funny. I'm not rooting for this. No, you're not. But he also, it is interesting because I didn't realize that's the point that you were going to say.

To me, the point when he realized it was over. And maybe he did. And then he thought, I still have another chance because I haven't been booked yet. Like maybe they'll let me sleep this off in the cell. but when she arrives on the scene and at first they won't let her talk to him and she, you know, is able to do what she needs to do, get him the phone, talk to him, she gets there.

She at one point, she goes, please help. Do you remember that? Please help. Everything. She's saying all the things off the checklist. But by the time she gets to him, that's when I realized he knew it was over because he's so defeated, he won't even answer questions. She's like, what do you want me to do?

What's your lawyer's name? What is this? it's like it's over like just let it happen that's when i thought he was first defeated then he goes to get booked and we see him making jokes about whiteness and all of that but you're right i still think he's still in a good mood i think he thought they'll let me sleep it off yeah and when they didn't when they closed the gate they said say it with me bye bye bye that's a tough one last thing i'll say is i think he was exerting power over her. Who was? Justin to the woman. Oh, with that

woman? Yep. Why? How? Because he's in the back of his mind. You should have that. You should have. This is your fucking fault. You got me out here at Sag Harbor. We're on a couple of white claws. This is your fault. Wouldn't have happened. And she probably feels

the one interesting thing I've always seen about celebrity is the bigger the celebrity, the more their friends feel ownership of them meaning the bigger the celebrity the more everybody around a celebrity

takes care of them everybody around a celebrity takes care of them like if a man just like if the celebrity doesn't ask you to leave somebody random comes up and goes

yo man are you making motherfucking Cardi B feel bad you gotta go you know what I'm saying like the bigger the celebrity the more everybody around they take responsibility

for the shit that happens to them So Justin is like talking to this woman And he's probably disappointed in her I don't know about that I'm telling you he's probably like She's talking to him he's trying to talk He's not being communicative That's probably because he's thinking

You got me out here in this situation I'm following you home It's your fucking fault What are you going to do To get the fucking timber snake out of this People who are responsible Need to start being held accountable For what they do

Otherwise they repeat it But as I said, this was 2024. Justin is shook back, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I understand why they fought to have this not release. Like we already knew about it. This is almost two years ago.

And again, like, in any situation, who wants their worst moments recorded? Yeah, it's tough. It's tough. But it was funny video. It was a funny video. And all you can hope, it's like, you know, nobody got hurt.

Yeah. Whatever. It's a DUI. It's not like Taylor Frankie Paul or anything like that where it's something I just think this is a pattern with people having the discussion

around the Timber Snake and like where he goes now. Like Justin, just chill, man. We, like we, you know. Why do you keep calling him Timbersnake? That's all. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business.

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Always been my nickname for. Okay. Justin Timbersnake. I like that type of shit. So this is late breaking news. What? Nothing. I just wanted to see what you would say.

Waiting. I'm hanging off your every word. Before we get to it, though. Did you go out and see Project Hell Mary this weekend? No. Come on. Why don't you want to see it? It's not that.

Honestly, the whole Bachelor thing just like consumed. You came with the whole, you came with a whole treatise. Well. You feel away. Of course. It's a personal thing. Personal thing. When you're held, which is, I mean, such as being black in America.

And yeah, it's a silly reality show, but still, it's still something you go through. So, of course. Yeah. Everything you did, they tried to get. get on you and then they let her beat up people. Yeah, like you can literally be a felon. Yeah, she's a felon. Anyways,

I'm with you. Project Hell Mary, no, I did not get to see it. I do want to actually see this, but I was busy. Everybody was calling me. Everybody wanted me to do media. I was like, I... You should do it.

What do I look like doing a media tour on this Taylor Frankie Paul shit? I don't care enough to do that, nor do I want to look like I'm trying to, like, position myself front and center and use this as an opportunity for myself to go do the media rounds. I don't like that. I have a podcast.

Podcasts. I have platforms. If you want to hear what I think, please see those places. For something like this, that just doesn't feel right. Now, you're right. The movie came in at $80.5 million. What was it projected to do? A little bit under that, but probably like 71, so it's, it beat his projections.

It is the biggest mover, the biggest movie for Amazon MGM. You know, Amazon and MGM are together. Ryan Gosling, star of this film. I've seen it. I thought it was fantastic. All right. The last biggest opening was Creed, $58 million. For Amazon MGM.

For Amazon MGM. This is the second biggest. the non-franchise opening, second only to Oppenheimer in 2023. I have a thought. Who is? The movie star is back. This movie,

more than any other film, solidifies Ryan Gosling as an A-plus gold star platinum movie star. Now, he's always been a big deal. You have Blade Runner, 249, which is a big deal. You have Barbie.

You have La La Land. Ryan Gosson's been with us for a long time. It's been a sought after star and commodity in Hollywood for a long time. But there were some bigger swings by him that did not do quite as well. Okay. Right. Like even you can point to stuff like the Fall Guy, which is a movie that. I liked that.

It's a good movie, but people didn't run out and see that movie just because Ryan Gosselin was in it. But it was on Netflix. Oh, sorry. No, I'm thinking of, no, the Grey Man. I'm thinking of the Grey Man. Which I did like. That's what I saw. The Grey Man was a cool movie too.

A lot of people did like. It's a very controversial film. as far as people liked the movie and not didn't like the movie this one though is a big gigantic swing a huge swing right it is a massive science fiction opera about love purpose and universal belonging and it is all oriented around one character if you like this guy the movie works if you do not like this guy, the movie does not work. Even the friendship and all of that stuff I want you guys to watch on a spoiling thing.

Go out there and find it. And this movie opens this big. Obviously, has a lot of creatives behind it that are great. Lord Miller are great. Drew Goddard, the screenwriter, it's great. But this opens like this, Ryan Gosling, gold star movie star right now. So you

think the main reason for this success is because he was leading this? I don't know if it's the main reason. That would be the movie star is back. Well, it's that people went out to see him. Well, you have to go out and see him. Now, there's a different version of a movie star.

That version of the movie star is you go out to see only them. There are very few people that have ever gotten there. That, like, they put out a film, and there's no other reason for you to go see the movie except for the fact that they are in it, which means they can get you to see anything. Will Smith

got there. Movies like I-Robot, Hitch, that had these huge, huge box office returns, like Hitch makes something like $300 million. It's like breezy romantic comedy, and it's all Will Smith and Ryan Gosling's lady, even Mendez. That's like Will just can do no wrong at that point. He's just the man.

Fewer people have ever gotten there with movies than we actually think that they have. So I wouldn't say that this is a demonstration of Ryan Gosling's star power to that degree. But it is the fact that you can hang a movie like this on him and he can deliver big. I say the movie star is back, not just Ryan,

Michael B. Jordan's ascension. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Michael B. Jordan's ascension, now with the Best Actor Academy Award, he now hits that new sort of ceiling and he moves on. Zendaya, gigantic movie star. Doesn't get enough credit for it.

Huge movie star in some of the most consequential films that happened. Timothy Shalameh, gigantic. The O'Guard hasn't really let go of it quite yet. But if you look at it now, I truly believe that we're going to see, and we'll see how it plays out the rest of this year.

This generation of movie stars finally flexed their muscle. This was a very important thing for Ryan Gosling, being of that ilk to make this happen with Ryan, Timmy, and Michael be joined. Michael, Zendaya as well. That's a very, very, very solid

quartet. Is Leo of the new or the old guard for you? Leo's kind of of the old guard. Leo is like a Leo's like a bridge player. Leo's like a Kobe. Leo is like a Kobe

that comes in between the LeBron and the Jordan. Okay. A guy who, for a lot of people, that's their guy. For a lot of people, that's their guy. He's that good.

He's good enough for that for a lot of people, that's their guy. But he still comes between because, you know, you have Brad and Tom and all of those guys, and Leo, and then what people were waiting for was really, could the next generation do it? Could they pull off the critical acclaim? Could they pull off

the box office stuff? And it's taking them a while. Michael B. Jordan's 39. Ryan Gosson's 45. Not that Ryan Gosson hasn't had box offices since before Barbie, Lala Land. These are movies that did well. But in this way, that makes him this

type of movie star. I think maybe some people expected this with Blade Runner, but this is a big deal. It's a huge deal, Rachel. I'm going to go see it. You got to go see it. It's like, you like it. I really wanted to. Then why didn't you go? I was in New York. It was outside. Take a, take a,

you was outside. I was visiting my New York friends. See, that's the problem. The problem is you know. I was present. I don't want to see a movie. I did have home. But sometimes you got to be inside. I'm in New York. I haven't been there in six months. I wanted to see my New York A whole six months? I know, yes. You mean a whole six months?

I don't know if my dad ever made it to New York. Look at this. Yeah, you feel like you're better than him. Jay Cole talked about the Kendrick Drake beef. I'm Drake Dout. I told you this. With Cam, he showed up on Cam's pod. It was a great, great, great move by Cam.

Yeah, if anybody could get Jay Cole, I think. No, I'm saying, but Cam was suing Jay Cole. And then I had Jay Cole. Oh, I did not know that. Yeah, he was suing, maybe not Jay Cole, but he was suing over a song that they did together. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. To have Jay Cole show up on this, that's nothing.

So he's not suing him anymore. I don't know. But, like, I know that this is something that happened. Had to have been a part of the settlement. Yeah. The Drake and Kendrick thing got totally out of hand. Do you think it spiraled out of control? The world, right away, the world became like politics.

You either Democrat or Republican. You either Kendrick or you Drake, and you have to, you got to pick a side, boom, boom. And I felt like the nigg that was like, disgusted both ways damn near. You know what I mean? So when you say, did it get out of hand? It's like creatively, that's not my place to say. Right.

But I think the out of hand that I think is like, to me, it's like disgusting how people try to use that opportunity, either show how they really felt about Drake the whole time. Right. Or just like pile on and tear this dude down and like create a narrative as if he's not great. It was a whole campaign and probably still is to this day. Right. So on one hand, it's like, yo, I feel weird and they're going to make headlines out of this, Just like when I see Kendrick get the moment he had, the pop out, the stadium, the Super Bowl, the Grammys.

The Grammys. I'm like, I'm just as proud of this nigga as I was when I knew him back then. But I also hate that for Drake. And I hate how the world turns on him. And simultaneously, I'm over here like, man, I hope Iceman go crazy. What? Go, go. What?

You know, I'm Drakeed out. Go ahead. You're Drakeed out? You have nothing to say? Go ahead. I'll let you go first. Well, obviously, Jay Cole is right. Jay Cole is right in terms of the, I don't know, the dividing line in hip-hop. People have to choose.

Drake or Kendrick, we can't enjoy both of these brothers' music. Obviously, he's right about that part. But there's something else that concerns me here. What is it? They're closing ranks. What do you mean? That's what this was. They're closing ranks.

You know who I'm talking about. And do you think that they're making progress? You guys, it's happening. This was the first salvo. They're closing ranks. And you guys know who I say, who I mean when I say they. I mean the biratials.

Oh, I thought you meant the lights, Ken. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's more than that. I dare you. This is the beginning. The biracial jihad is upon us. And what's the objective and goal here? You guys, what people don't,

understand is we have let so many, they are us. This is the problem. They're us. We're them, they're us. This is the thing that makes it interesting. We're them. They are us. Now their jihad begins.

The biracial jihad, where they go for it. They go for complete domination in culture. It's happening. I'm telling you guys, man, Obama, Drake, J. Cole, Zendaya, every black actress on the HBO show, all of these different people, these biraciales that now are in cahoots with one another.

If you watch what Cole did right there, what it really was was saying, look, I can't let another one of us be played like this. This is a rallying call to all the biracial, that the jihad is upon us, right? It started before this. If you listen to 39 intro, he says in that record,

light refracts when the half black Messiah raps, the half black Messiah, the Messiah to who? Other biracials. When you start looking at what's happening across culture, their penetration into culture, the way that they can make culture, the way that they've really established almost, their own culture.

It's time. It's beginning now. I tried to warn you guys. I tried to help you guys. I tried to sound the alarm that this was coming. Now we're in the middle of it and I wonder what happens.

They really, the shit is changing. You do realize it's really you versus them. There's no versus. Don't bring us. No, no. You said that.

But they proceeded to be against them. I'm alleged. I actually do appreciate that the conversation has nothing to do with the battle between Kedrick and Drake because that's what I'm tired of. Yeah. I appreciate that. However, this is your battle. This is one battle after another with you versus the biracial. It's not a versus. You actually are the one seeking war against them. That's not true. I'm telling you, I see it.

They're going to feel that way too when they watch this. You keep doing this. I see it. I did find it interesting for when Jay Cole bowed out. initially after when all this started. That was a ruse. That he, I agree with you. But I did, I was like, oh, really? Like, you took yourself out.

That was a ruse. For the biracial? It was a ruse because he knew that the biracial jihad was coming. It's upon us. So if Ice Man, okay, okay, if Ice Man, because he said he's rooting for me, cut it off right when he was like he hopes Ice Man does well. If Iceman doesn't, which it will, right? I know, I know, I know.

But I want to argue against your war. If it doesn't. It's not my war. If it doesn't do well, what does that say about the battle? It doesn't matter. It will do well. This is the first salvo. What if it's the worst of all his albums?

It won't matter. Okay. Do you understand? It's so funny to me. It's funny to me. First of all, do you understand what's been happening? Do you get it? Do you even get it?

You mean, do I care? Do you even know what's happening? What's been going on? Have you, have you been watching? Watching? Watching what? Have you been watching everything that's been going on the last 10 years? Really going back since Obama?

I knew he was going to say that. Because when you said 10 years, I was like, okay, but that'll take, put Obama in it. I'm telling you, America realized the power of the biracial performer, they're like white enough to not be black, black enough to count as black. And they've been going hard. Now, the problem with us is they are us. We're them. They're black. They're black.

They're black. They're black people. They're black. They're black. You know, they're black. Okay. They're black as fuck. They're black.

I don't want to make any other biratians feel like you guys aren't black. And I understand even some of the conversations that are happening with in biracial land where the white mama, black mama thing is being litigated. That's also funny that that threatens to bring down the biracial unity that we're seeing right now. But this, when I saw this, this is directly. directly, directly, biracial's closing ranks around each other. I've seen some of this stuff happen before. The jihad is coming.

Obama's your one example. Obama? Drake. Drake, Cole. And Dahl. Give me more evidence to support your claims. What do you mean? That is not enough.

That is a huge amount of people. I could go further, by the way. I'm asking you to. I don't want to get into a whole bunch of thing, whatever. I could go further, but everybody out here knows what I'm talking about. You don't want to, I don't know why, by the way.

I'm not as passionate as you. I'm not as 23 and me and see what's going on. What percentage counts? As biracial? Well, I'm not biracial. I'm not worried about that, but you try to 23, me. What's the percentage is too much for you?

I think, well, there's no percentage that's too much. I don't want everybody to look at this wrong, okay? this is coming off wrong. I don't want everybody to look at this wrong. I don't want anyone to take this wrong. That's not what I'm saying. But what I'm saying is I know that it's coming. Okay.

I've had the conversations. The difference is I've actually done to work. And what's coming though, to be clear. Like, what, what's, can you not say? I can say. Okay. What is coming? What's coming is, can I interest you in Zoe Kravitz?

It's another one. Sleeper sale? Okay? Yeah, yeah. Sleeper sale? I could keep going. Well, you're just naming biracial people, but I'm waiting for you to tell me how the takeover is like,

it's happening. Okay. Well, the takeover is domination of black culture by a group from inside of it. From inside of it. From inside of it. From inside of it. So then why does it matter?

Well, because it does. Okay. We're alike. We're different. Like, we're like we're different. different. It does. It matters.

But I just want, what I want to know is if in fact they do take over, which they might, will they stay with us? Well. Because you never know, right? If it happens. You never know. You could like, you could see

a new political party. The party could be the white mama's party. I will tell you that you were right if it happens. You're not concerned about it because you're not to protect this thing of ours. Oh, I am. I am. I just don't think there's a real threat. Now can I tell you something? Mm-hmm. There are going to be some of us that go with them. I believe that. We know who would be first. Well, you're starting to, it seems like you're almost

nominating yourself. I wasn't including myself, but okay. It seems like you're, it seems like you want to be with them. Because what? Because you're acting like this isn't happening. You're obsessed with them. I'm not. So you would be front line. I'm not obsessed. I just saw this. I was like, it's just very funny, you know. It's a funny situation. And shout out, because it's jokes.

But I tell you what, you know, I've had some conversations. And there's actual, they actually have their own point of view. I'd like to nominate for Tracy Thomas to come on the show. By Tracy. Yeah. It's been a long time since the group. What were you all called again? The BBI.

The BBI. We've never had her on the show. You've never, yeah, yeah, a long time. We've never had her on the show. But you're interested in their point of view, and I think that you should bring the head of the BBI here. Yeah, yeah. Interesting to see which way she goes.

I saw this and I was like, I see what's happening right here, man. Okay, Tracy. I see what's happening. You've been called in. Yeah, I see what's happening, you know. It is what it is, man. He was right about the fact you could love both Drake and Kendrick. I agree.

Yeah, just listen to everybody's albums and watch the whole shit. But the jihad. Watch. Just watch. You know what? Just watch. Okay. When I see it happen, when I see it happen, just watch.

I'll see in the next year, in the next whatever, when they really make their move. It'll probably be around Ice Man. When is that coming out? Well, nobody knows. Oh, okay. Nobody knows. Probably like on the Fourth of July or some shit like that. Wow.

Probably perform at the UFC event at the Trump. Trump, whatever. Okay, we got to go. Emma Viglin is coming up. This is a nice, long, robust. interview that we talk about a lot of things that are top of mind right now as far as geopolitical stuff is concerned. My concern is running out, so I'm going to... Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis,

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New sweet green wraps hit different. Order now at order. Sweetgreen.com. Lose my ability of speech here in five minutes. All right, Emma Viglin on the other side of this. All right, guys, let's get back into it. We have given vigorous political discussion a little bit of a break here. Not intentionally.

There's just been so much stuff on. We're going to get back into it a little bit. We got Emma Viglin joining us on the podcast today. co-hosts of the majority report with Sam Cedar. Yes, exactly right. Did you see that Sam, did Sam tell you that him and I had a conversation, a long phone conversation? He did tell me that. He did tell me that. Sometimes he hates when I give out his number to people, but he seemed to enjoy your conversation. So not, you know.

Sam and I had a long talk. We were talking about, I don't want to divulge the conversation. Just give me the topic if you can. We were talking about, I think this was around the time. that Chi Osi was like, you remember what was going on with Hakeem Jeffries? So Sam and I talked about that a little bit, kind of some in-depth stuff. It was good to be on the phone with him. It's good to be on the phone with Sam. He gives people time. And despite, you know, being a little cantankerous in some context is actually a really nice guy,

not to suck up to him too much and compliment him too much because I know it makes him uncomfortable, but hopefully he doesn't hear this part. Yeah, hopefully you won't. Okay, so we are in the midst of a lot of commotion in the world, particularly the war in Iran. Yes. I would like to talk about the war in Iran. I'll also like to talk about some of your observations about Tucker Carlson. But I want to start off there.

Many people are concerned with this war leading to the end of civilization. Oh, yeah. It might be the worst case scenario. in terms of like what I anticipated. I mean, short of going to war with China, it's hard to think of a more disastrous conflict to enter into. Say more. I mean, we can just go back in a little bit in history.

So in the 1950s, the U.S. and the British over through the democratically elected leader of Iran because that leader wanted to audit BP, which was extracting the oil out of Iran. and they wanted to, the democratically elected leader said, hey, I want to make sure that the British and the Americans aren't ripping us off and that BP isn't ripping us off. And what to- He was my name, Mosa-Dec. There you go.

All right. Showing off your knowledge. And then, because he had the temerity to assert sovereignty over their natural resources from colonial extraction, we did a coup and overthrew that democratically elected leader. And then installed the brutal Shah, who, then in the 70s was overturned via the Islamic Revolution, and now that's the government that's currently in place and still in place, despite the Trump administration's very violent attempts to topple it and desire to topple it for so long. Why I say this is that there is such a

cultural memory in Iran and an understanding that the United States and Western powers are going to constantly try to go after their resources and do regime change wars. And so the notion that we were going to bomb the hell out of them, we bombed a girl school, killed over 100 little girls, we bombed their oil fields, that will be in their soil and water for decades to come, causing cancer among their population. And that the U.S. and Israel was going to do that,

and the people were going to be like, huh, we forgot all of that history. we're going to side with the Americans on this and we're going to overthrow our government, regardless of how brutal this regime is and we shouldn't take away from the fact that, yes, the Iranian government is quite brutal and repressive. That doesn't mean that they're going to automatically side with the Western powers that they're going to try to take over their country. And so it's this incredible arrogance from the Trump administration.

He was led into it by the Israeli government that has wanted this for over 40 years. Netanyahu has spoken. about it and because Iran poses the greatest threat to Israel's complete domination of the region. And so every president before this was smart enough, and I'm including freaking George W. Bush to say no to these kinds of actions. But Trump, he was able to be sold on this. And I think it speaks to all of the issues with him as a person, to put it mildly. One quick follow up here. When you say the Iranian people, who do you mean? And the reason why I asked that, is because we live here in Los Angeles, aka Tarangeles, Taranjali's.

Terranjolese. So you see the diaspora of people here celebrating. Yeah. People that we know, Rachel and I know, have relationships with people that I know in New York. You see them celebrating what they believe will be the end of the Islamic Republic and their ability to return home.

or to go back to take control for Iranian art, culture, music, all of these things that have been such a gift to the world for them to be a part of the global conversation again. And I think a lot of people thought that the protests that were going on were this indication that the people inside of Iran had had their fill of the Islamic Republic as well and they were ready to overthrow their government or move into democracy, whatever.

You're seeing reluctance now and you're seeing that's not being the case. Is that because these people are not out on the front lines because there are bombs falling? Is that because the will inside of the country was underestimated by the West? What's going on? Well, I think that Iranian diaspora,

much like Cuban diaspora, are, you can't take their, claims about the country in the same way that you can the people that are actually still living in the country. Diaspora that are, you know, allowed to come into the United States usually have capitalist inclinations, like when we allowed for basically Cuban refugees to come over with complete amnesty and like look at how we treat immigration for people from other countries. But when we brought Cuban people over, Iranian people over, they were sympathetic to capitalism. And so they tend to be more right-wing, more invested in Western capitalist interests and are

less sympathetic to arguments about like sovereignty over resources. And so you're going to have a more Americanized response to that kind of thing. But yeah, the Iranian people, if the United States wanted to engage in regime change in a smart way, which we've done before, we would have just supported the elements of the protesters that were already taking to the streets and tried to establish. essentially back them up, but not bomb the hell out of them as they're already being sluggered by their own regime. The way the Trump administration went about this is both idiotic. And I don't necessarily think that we should take their stated goals at face value. Because what, I genuinely

think that the Israeli government and even our intelligence apparatus, understand. that regime change in Iran is quite difficult. This is not Iraq. This is a very kind of institutionalized state. They have infrastructure. They have some levels of democracy and elections. I mean, Progoshin is a leader that was elected there democratically, although, of course, there are questions about the validity of those elections.

But, shoot, I totally lost my train of thought. What were we talking about just a second ago? You're talking about how hard it would be the institute regime change. Oh, yes, exactly. So I think that we understood this, and I think the Israelis understand it. What they want is for Iranian society to collapse. Like, we shouldn't take them at face value when they say that they actually want to implement regime change because they know that's quite difficult.

They want to cause enough chaos in society that Iran kind of falls apart and they're not able to have kind of collaboration with Hezbollah and other groups that pose difficulties for Israel's broader goal of complete domination of the region. region, which is the Greater Israel Project, which we now see just openly endorsed. Like Benjamin Netanyahu's so-called liberal centrist opposition figure, this guy Lapeed, after Mike Huckabee, the Christian Zionist fundamentalist, who is our ambassador to Israel, said that he thinks that Israel should be able to take parts of Lebanon, should be able to take parts of Syria, should be able to expand from all the way to the Levant.

had the centrist liberal opposition endorsed that idea. The point is that there is no element in Israeli society that wants to de-escalate. I believe it was Ronald Reagan's former Secretary of State in the 80s that fondly described Israel as our aircraft carrier in the Middle East and our largest one, because that's how it functions. It functions as a military intelligence outpost. There's a phenomenal book that I referenced yesterday during the live show, The Palestine Laboratory by Anthony Lowenstein that was written prior to October 7th, but it shows that in Gaza, which is an 141 square mile open air concentration camp, the military weapons technology,

surveillance technology has been essentially been tested on Palestinians like lab rats for decades. And what Israel is a top 10 arms dealer in the world, despite having a relatively small population, because that's essentially how it functions. It's the German prime minister said it a few months ago. Israel does our dirty work for us. They do the dirty work for the West. And we have to be speaking about it in those contexts because we need to talk about decolonizing the world

and looking at the global South as a place that we need to uplift as opposed to constantly try to dominate and extract from. I want to follow up on a couple of things that you said. So Van said some people think this is the end of civilization. and you said it's the worst case. It's pretty bad. So are you saying that that is true, or you believe that based on where we are right now

and where things are headed, and I say that because we really don't know, you think that that statement has some merit to it? I mean, perhaps it's a little hyperbolic, but I think this will indelibly change our relationship with the world. America's relationship with the world. One, given our relationship with the Gulf states, which we have propped up autocratic leaders

as we talk about democracy, because it's easier to deal with a Muhammad bin Salman than like a messy democratic processing one of these countries or in Egypt or all these other countries. They are getting hit right now by Iran because Iran has calculated that Israel is the center of like American, the Israel lobby has created a situation where we have invested so much in defending Israel with the Iron Dome, with our defense system there, that they can just use these cheap drones and bomb the Gulf states that are supposedly in our sphere of influence, but they can, they can really harm them financially with these cheap drones that don't cost

that much. And so they get more bang for their buck attacking these countries that we need to depend on for oil. And they're starting to get really pissed at Trump for starting this for starting this conflict. So we already see that China is developing relationships with Iran a few years ago. They brokered some talks that between Iran and Saudi Arabia over Yemen, showing that China is trying to build up its soft power in the region and using and bringing these countries into its sphere of influence. And the U.S. is responding, which is violence, violence, violence? And so which partner is more stable here?

And Trump is also doing this thing where he's negotiating with Iran. They're doing negotiations. But repeatedly, he's showing that he's using the guise of diplomacy to lull them into a false sense of security and bombing them. How can Iran trust that any negotiations with this insane belligerent partner are going to be honored? So what they have to do is we have to create enough pain to the people in the West who live in privilege relative to us in the form of gas prices and we're about to see it explode. So they learn their goddamn lesson. And I think it changes our relationship with that region forever. It also has emboldened Vladimir Putin.

So Russian oil now is being sold at a premium because people are desperate for it. And that hurts American interests as well, and Russia and Iran are aligned. So I think this diminishes America's standing, and I think it changes our relationship indelibly with, like, the energy trade relationships and how the United States is going to be able to, like, maintain, I don't know, some sort of relative satiation in a population that already doesn't have any social services, because the price of goods are going to go up. That's all that the capitalism provides for people here. as a follow-up you know we obviously know that U.S. and Israel they struck Iran and they took out their leadership

but obviously the regime didn't collapse and so I guess this goes to well I guess the question could be was this a miscalculation or does this contribute just to the arrogance that you mentioned but I'm also wondering what you thought about what Tulsi Gabbard was saying

she admitted that we are less knowledgeable about the position of the Iranian leadership and their intentions than we were before the war. And then she also admitted that the U.S. goals are not aligned with Israel's and we differ from those objectives of the Israeli government. What are your thoughts about that? Hearing the director of national intelligence admit that to Congress. Yeah. I mean, I think, well, I'll take the back half of your question first about having her admit that. I think that that is absolutely true. And there have been historical examples of colonies becoming unruly and becoming so

powerful that they have the host country kind of at their whims. But I also think that there's this impulse right now, and we're seeing it in conservative media, to remove Trump's culpability from this situation? Because, you know, when... It's an impulse is a project. It's a project. Yeah, exactly. That's probably a better word for it.

There's a project to make... Everyone's afraid to criticize the dear leader. But, you know, when Biden was assisting Israel in their genocide, we on the left were immensely consistent. We understood that you could cut off arms tomorrow. Under the Leahy law, it says that you're not supposed to be selling arms to a state that's committing human rights violations. the the the Biden administration they fudge reports to allow for them to circumvent that law and we said you could like yank on the leash any day now you could do so and he refused to do it I'm shocked to see the the same criticism is not being leveled at trump it's oh look Israel controls our government they must have something over him they mean perhaps they do with intelligence and with the Epstein files I guess but the reality is like he could stop this tomorrow

Even if the interest, and yes, the interests of Israel in many ways do diverge from the interests of the American public. But that doesn't, but it sometimes I think is an excuse because Israel, as I mentioned, they do do the dirty work that we can outsource criticism to at this point. And Trump is as culpable as anybody. So if the Israeli interests really differ that much from what he wants to do, then perhaps he should act like it and he's not acting like it. Yeah, well, you know, when you see Tucker Carlson, who has been lauded by many, he just did an interview with the economists and, you know, he spoke about the right to exist and all of these things. And he's such a talented rhetorical. He is. You know, he is.

It's scary. Yeah, he's talented. He's very talented in that regard. But he stopped short. We talked about a little bit at the end of the last podcast. He stopped short at actually criticizing him. in the president for he is. Yeah.

He won't. He even as the president says Tucker Carlson has lost his way. He's not maga. He's not one of us. Even as the insults fly directly towards him, he stopped short at saying Donald Trump said he would not get us into a foreign war.

He kind of got there in the economist's interview a little bit when he was pressed. But he doesn't lay the blame for all of this at the feet of the president. And no one really well, which means that it will continue. Yes. Because President Trump always escapes any type of blame for it.

The dance that Tucker is doing is that if he wants to leave his options open to run for president in 2028, which I think is a possibility. Or if he just wants to advance his media career, he can't piss off the cult that thinks Trump can do no wrong. But he also knows that this war starting at something like 41% popularity, which is, lower than the Iraq war ever got, and the Bush administration spent like a year or two manufacturing consent for it going to the UN saying, oh, they have weapons of mass destruction. Trump just acted unilaterally. So Tucker knows that this war is unpopular. So he has to find a way to get out ahead of it, even though, by the way, he was supportive

of the Iraq war and was calling Muslim people monkeys back then. But he has to get ahead of it. And he's just doing what William F. Buckley, what Pap Buchanan did. cribbing from these older, more paleo-conservatives, where they blame retroactively Israel, and by extension, they don't make the distinction between Zionism and Judaism, Jews that are running our foreign policy

and there's some sort of secret conspiracy behind all of this, that somehow Trump is not involved in it, but that they're the ones that are pushing us in this direction. And blaming solely Israel, as opposed to the president of the United States. Because the problem with the right-wing construction of how they speak about Israel is that they act as if it's controlling our government

as opposed to Israel being an outgrowth of American imperialism and violence that we've inflicted upon the world outside of the context of Israel. Vietnam, the war crimes that we committed in Vietnam, I mean, what Henry Kissinger did, to the people of Cambodia. That was not Israeli interests that were pushing us to massacre hundreds of thousands of people and leave them with burns and scars and health problems for the rest of their life.

No, that was just the consequence of empire and colonialism. And Israel is, yes, functionally our colony and acts in that way in the Middle East. But that doesn't mean that they're the ones that are solely driving. describing American policy or are the root of what we need to do to challenge American empire. They are an outgrowth of it. It is the better way to describe it. But he can still engage in like nationalism and this flag-waving patriotism if you outsource all of the blame on to Israel and to the Israeli state. I want to talk about something that I saw on the Dan Levitart show.

as it relates to Cuba in a second. But before that, I'm interested to hear your opinion on the Saudis. The Saudis from some reported they wanted this war too, right? Iran was a big, gigantic thorn in their side, right? I think that's being a little bit overplayed by people trying to divert attention a little bit from Israel. So you think that the Saudis would have rather this, I mean, there's sectarian situations there. Yeah, but as I mentioned, China had broker talks between the Saudis and Iran a few years ago. intentions have significantly cooled between the two.

So I'm a little skeptical of some of those claims, but, you know, it's hard to know. All right. So then if that's not the case, then you have, as far as the Gulf countries, really, it's already been shattered, right? Yeah. I mean, if you like to go to Dubai to have fun and get busy and you like to do all of that stuff, it's going to be difficult to go to Dubai, at least in the near future, if you think that any second a war could break out there. Right. What is the worst case scenario for the Gulf countries?

Is it the destruction of the desalinization stuff? Is it like what's the worst case scenario for all of these other places that have been moving closer and closer to the West over the last couple of decades? I think that that is part of why I'm skeptical of some of these claims that the Gulf countries wanted this. They have arms dealing relationships with the United States. they have had security guarantees from the United States but they're seeing the limits of that because Israel's are priority and that's been abundantly clear. Honestly, to that point real quick,

I don't think that anyone thought that the Iranian drone program could do what it's doing right now. I think that when the Americans were telling these countries that they could protect them with interceptors, the Patriot Systems and all that, I think they might have thought. thought that they could and now are waking up to the fact that they're pesky in the way that they can destroy targets.

They're so cheap to make. They're cheap to manufacture. They're manufacturing thousands of them when we can only manufacture hundreds of interceptors. We thought that we could protect them and we probably can't as well as we thought that we could. I think that's true. And it underscores why I think that they still want to have the relationship. ship with the West where they can buy arms from us. And like, look, Qatar gave Trump a $400 million

plane. They were probably like, what did we do this for? We literally bribed you. And you're starting this conflict that's like, I mean, the Qatari liquid natural gas fields are the most important in the world. And Iran bombed them in retaliation for Israel attacking them. So like, they're probably wondering what the hell is going on here. Plus, they have been trying to pivot to becoming like to a Western audience as like a place where you can vacation. and that we're investing in your sports leagues, in golf, or in comedy. And they know that whenever we're going to have, there's going to be a green transition, eventually God, it's taking way too long.

But they're going to have to diversify their economy off of oil. And that meant kind of cozying up to the West and becoming some sort of vacation or financial destination for them. So when people think they're not safe there and they may get bombed, that really impacts their ability to attract tourism. So my guess is that they're pretty furious about it, but they still have to walk this line because the United States is still, in terms of military might, in terms of weapons technology, we are, that's maybe the one thing we're more advanced on China than China on is our weapons

technology. So they rely on us for that. But I don't think that they would be acting in their own interest if they didn't begin to build many more like multilateral relations, relationships with other countries and really cozying up to China because we're turning into, it's becoming the Chinese century. I know it's people say that kind of off the cuff, but there was a report just from a month ago. China is experiencing its most intense period of growth right now, and they actually have declined carbon emissions in the last year. They're reducing them. They're below net zero, and they're growing

at a way faster pace than we are because they've completely electrified their entire economy. So they're both growing economically as a powerhouse and they are insulating themselves from needing to rely on the petrodollar and oil and gas, which we're currently just playing around with and toying with because all the only language that this empire has left is violence. Sorry to get so dark. No, well, I appreciate this conversation. It's why we wanted to come back and talk about it again. And this kind of leads it to my next question.

I guess it's bad. And we're talking about how bad it is in various ways. And not just between U.S. Israel and Iran. We're seeing how widespread. It really already is, if not on land economically. So my question is with mainstream media, Western media, what are your thoughts? I can guess.

But the fact that we talk about it in this way, you don't get that from Western media, from mainstream media. They're not challenging. I feel like government claims enough. I mean, just today I was looking at someone on threads, threads, you know, I love talking about how, you know, Trump is making these claims that he's negotiating and it's coming out from over there that he's actually not. He has not talked to them. But we're being told something totally different. And we're not seeing media challenge them in that way.

your thoughts about that and just how it is causing us to kind of live a certain way without the reality or even the gravity of the situation. Yeah, I think it's more acute than ever to your point and we see this with the Washington Post. They just closed their entire, like one-third of their staff, they laid off. They closed their entire foreign reporting bureau. Like we would be needing that kind of thing right now. By the way, Iran is letting Western reporters in to cover what's happening on the ground there. Israel is still refusing to let Western reporters into Gaza to verify what's happening. Like last time I was on CNN, I spoke about what the true death toll is in Gaza. We know that the numbers that we have that are accounted for are just people who have been able to

be verified in hospitals. But if you're bombing a house and 20 people die in there, what's the point in dragging the corpses of your children to the hospital to have them get verified? And there hundreds of thousands of people that are unaccounted for presumed dead under rubble. But yet, our media has still been using these figures that are probably a year and a half out of date. And it's one of the things, the most insidious ways that you can manufacture consent for something like Genesag where it's like, okay, we're still in the tens of thousands. I mean, that's horrible.

But if we were in the hundreds of thousands, that might be pretty bad. No one talks about it in those contexts. And so I think that like when you also have this kind of wealthy takeover of media, the LA Times was bought by a billionaire. The Washington Post, of course, with Jeff Bezos, they are less invested in providing like actual truth or investing in their newsrooms in a way that would have like real reporting. that would challenge power. Oddly, the Wall Street Journal has been kind of better than other newspapers. And you know why? It's because they're a financial paper, and they have to actually verify information because it affects the markets.

And so they've had some of the better reporting on Trump, despite being owned by the same guy that owns Fox News. And I think that says everything about where we are in media. and Trump's FCC chair is now threatening, you know, different licensing agreements if they don't do the right kind of coverage about the Iran war. So this is one of the gravest threats to free speech that we've seen. Although when you listen to like the Brogan sphere podcasters, they would say not being able to say the R word on stage or make fun of trans people is the bigger threat. Both sides. I will say this. This morning, though, I mean, what Trump did this morning, this is, you guys are getting this on Tuesday, what Trump did this morning was obvious market manipulation.

And I will say that most people were right on top of that, particularly when the Iranians came out and they were like, we haven't spoken to Donald Trump. It's probably because Donald Trump is trying to buy more time as people get shocked by gas prices. Yep. To either figure out what he's going to do, how he's going to taco, or I guess, just cool everyone's jets a little bit. Because when the Iranians came out and said, we haven't talked to Donald Trump, Trump made that statement for the markets

to try to control the markets. And I did see most people report on the fact that the Iranians said that they had never spoken to him. It was weird to be in a situation for everyone to have much, much more faith in what the Iranians were saying than the President of the United States. Well, they've been the more reasonable partner for decades at this point

than America excluding Obama's very successful nuclear agreement with them, the JCPOA in 2015, which Trump ripped up. We wouldn't be in the situation if that was still in place. And looking at that in hindsight, I'm sorry if I interrupted you, Dan, but like

Obama, I had a lot of problems with his domestic policy in terms of like bailing out the banks and not bailing out homeowners. I think that's part of why we're in the situation that we are in right now. But between Koolink trying to normalized relations with Cuba again towards the end of his presidency, and also this nuclear agreement deal with Iran, which we unfroze some of their assets in exchange for them agreeing

to have a third-party monitor come in and make sure that they weren't enriching uranium over a certain level so they couldn't build a nuclear weapon. And that was going incredibly well. But you had Netanyahu come out, and he did this whole presentation about how they were, they're lying, they're cheating on the deal. And Trump came in and he was like, I agree with that. And he ripped it up. And so ever since then, there has been no peace agreement with the Iranians. And this is why, and Biden did not pursue it again.

He pursued the more hawkish Zionist foreign policy as well. And now we're on the brink of potentially sending in ground troops. There is an off ramp. Iran is going to try to inflict as much pain as possible to make sure that this doesn't happen again. But if they want to manipulate Trump most effectively, they're also going to need to make it seem like he got some sort of win out of this. And I think what prolongs this is that there is no conceivable way that anyone can make an argument, that he's achieved any of the objectives that he's thrown out there to justify his belligerence. No regime change in Iran. No, like, they're still lobbying missiles at Israel.

No oil prices, oil prices are skyrocketing. So Trump is going to be susceptible to feeling humiliated. And my biggest concern is that Iran is going to be so obviously emboldened and needing to say, like, we have to show a lesson to the West. If the American people feel the pain, then perhaps they'll be able to reign in the president, that that will put Trump in a position. where he feels like he can't get a win out of this, and that is another incentive to escalate.

And the escalation is ground troops. And Iran is many times the size of Iraq, 90 million people, heavily mountainous, a much more cemented state and infrastructure. If you thought Iraq was a quagmire, you can get in, but you're definitely not going to get out. Nope.

You can, like, you, they would have to, don't take my word for it. They would have to let you out. You can get in and you're going to have to send troops in. You're going to have to parachute troops in and maybe you can do that. There's going to be tremendous. You can get in, but getting out would be fucked up. And the only way to either, to either do definite regime change or to make sure that whatever nuclear program they're claiming still exists

is completely obliterated is to send in ground troops. Yep. In both cases, you would have to have people on the ground to be able to definitively say to anyone with half of a brain cell that that is the deal. And then even getting the troops in to look over the nuclear, it's just very complicated. You have to have people who can identify this type of stuff

who know what they're looking at to say, it's a really fucked up situation. It feels like Iran is winning at the moment. Oh, 100%. Winning by not losing, yeah. And we talk about oil, but I was reading some Vox reporting on Vox. It's like, this could turn into a food crisis

if it continues as well. Fertilizer. Fossil fuels. Exactly. Right, yeah. So, I mean, it's really an awful situation. And, like, you know, part of why I argued so hard, of course, for people to vote for Kamala Harris, as a defensive kind of measure

against what we're seeing right now is because like, yeah, Trump pretended to be anti-war. And some real idiots believe that and push that narrative in the Brogan's fear with TYT and stuff like that insanity. What'd you say? TY2. Oh, yeah, I'll get a little spicy on here.

I know. I know you like the drama, so I want to give you what you want. He does. But no, I mean, like the idea that he was anti-war is hilarious because their version of anti-war is peace through strength. And what does that mean? We remove the rules of engagement and we bomb girls' schools and we do war crimes and then hope

that our strength is what causes peace, meaning they don't retaliate. We bully them into submission. But the problem with what we're experiencing right now is the bulk of like the anti-war movement is on the left. The active anti-war movement has always been on the left. whether it's Vietnam, whether it's Iraq. That's where the anti-war movement is. We are not in Trump's constituency.

So we have no ability to influence him. He doesn't give a crap what we say. He only caters to his base. And despite having some pushback from his base, and you've seen like a 10% drop among self-identified Republicans in support for Israel over the past two and a half years, the real driver of negative public opinion,

both about our Israel policy and about this Iran war is from independence who increasingly younger people are not identifying with either party. So perhaps that's the young conservatives are in that cohort. But it's independence and Democrats. The problem is like we're not in the coalition of people that he listens to. He is beholden to the psychotic Christian Zionists like and just Zionists in general. But even like Huckabee, but Pete Hegseth has a crusades tattoo on his body. And look, we're not, you know, tattoos that if you apologize for, like, PlatnerDIS, I think that's a little different.

I was about to get you. No, but like, it's a part of the overall, it's a part of the overall total of what your political philosophy is. And what Pete Hegzeth has spent his career doing is advocating for pardons for war criminals in Iraq who have gunned down people in the streets and were convicted in America. He successfully got Trump in his first term to pardon that. And that really charmed Trump. And saying that we should be bombing Iranian cultural sites. that the only thing that these people understand is violence and strength. So those are the people in the room with Trump,

and those are also the voters that he's beholden to, because I will wrap up this in the second. Christian's eye on this in this country are, it's like people slept through the whole Bush administration. The evangelical base doesn't see climate change or these horrible wars as something that's bad. They genuinely see it as evidence of the radical. coming.

They don't believe in really improving life on earth because their acceleration is about the rapture. That's why they support Israel so much because they believe that once all the Jews return to that area, two-thirds of them will go to hell and the one-third that accept crisis, their savior, get to sit on the right hand of God and they will be saved. But it involves in their vision the deaths of millions and millions of Jews and they are in a pact with Jewish Zionists as well who support the state of Israel and largely like big institutions that are about militarism as opposed to actually protecting Jews and Jewish safety in this country because there's nothing that has inflamed the fire the horrible fires of anti-Semitism

more than this constant conflation between Zionism and Judaism and we're at a point right now we're back to Tucker Carlson it's become so normalized that I'm not sure where it goes. do you think that the Biden administration eroded some people's belief that the left was the anti-war flank because of their support for the war in Ukraine and for their failure to reign in Israel? Absolutely. When I first got invested in politics, I became obsessed with Obama in the 2008 primary because I couldn't understand, I was a teenager, I couldn't understand how, anyone could support Hillary Clinton after she voted for the Iraq war. Because, I mean, we killed

up to a million people in Iraq by some estimations. And we tortured people. It was an absolutely horrible, horrible thing that this country did. And that is, you know, yes, it was the financial collapse that was in part why Obama won the best electoral college victory for a Democratic president in, I don't know how long I would have to look back. But for like a, it was overwhelming. on criticism of the economy, but it was also on an anti-war message. And that brought a lot of young people into the Democratic Party because throughout history, you see that's where activism is. It's younger people and surrounding the anti-war movement. I think that Biden and his real ideological Zionism did an enormous disservice. And to that brand, to that energy, I mean, there were, I think

90 million people that sat out that could have voted in the last election. And there's some analysis of, you know, a lot of voters just staying home, millions of voters staying home, who voted for Biden but didn't vote for Harris. And look, I'm somebody that will never downplay the insane misogyny and racism that was directed towards her. I mean, Trump, when she first entered the race, he was, like, fantasizing about her getting beat up in a ring and they were calling her a slut immediately. I mean, it was absolutely vile what they were engaged in.

But, you know, I do think that there were a lot of people that said, like, if you can't stand up on this front, how are you going to stand up for me? Like, the reason Israel's becoming this moral test for people is because it's so obvious that if you're on the side of APEC or if you're on the side of this lobby, we know you're not on our side. We know you're not about redirecting resources back home. You're not about like an overall egalitarian vision of humanity. So I really think the Democrats did an enormous disservice to their brand. But it's not a coincidence that 2010 was the Citizens United decision. And since that period, I think it was $144 million was spent in 2010 on elections. And most of that was direct contributions.

So you would know where those contributions went. But when Citizens United, that decision happened and the Supreme Court said, not only is money speech, but corporations have corporate purpose. personhood and have the right to speak unlimitedly, that exploded dark money ads. And now we're at $1.3 billion was spent in 2024 on dark money contributions. And I don't think it's a coincidence that support for Israel among the Democratic Party, even in ways that hurt them electorally, because they'd become so hooked on the money, took precedence.

So it is a real, real problem with corruption, unfortunately. And we always know the Republicans are going to be the most corrupt. But unfortunately, I think a lot of dark money has neutered the Democrats to the point of such absolute weakness that they have enabled this fascism that we're seeing. Yeah, we see it today in the way that they can or cannot make decisions. In your opinion, what is more likely with Iran? A negotiated pause, a prolonged stalemate, or a massive escalation. Okay, can you guys say the three options again?

A negotiated pause, a prolonged stalemate, or massive escalation. I don't see a prolonged stalemate because I think most of the financial press I'm reading is saying that we're about to hit disaster. zone with oil and energy prices. So my hope is that the markets respond in kind, and it's the first thing and not the dramatic escalation. But as I was saying before, I hope that the Iranians, and I don't know if this is the case because the Hamini, the son, who's just taken over, is considered to be a more hardliner than his older father, who was more conservative and less escalatory with his.

Israel in the United States. And if he wasn't before, he definitely is now. They killed his dad. Right. His wife, his kid. Yeah. My fear is that they're going to say, we've tried to appease the Americans and Israel. They have continuously, I mean, they have continuously not just held up the sanctions regime,

but they've violated their own agreements. They're not even good negotiating partners because, like, there's no instability in our negotiating partnership. Like, as I mentioned with that Obama. a nuclear deal, which was a great deal. And in hindsight, I look back on that and think, like, look at how he stood up to the Israel lobby. And then they responded.

And right after Obama left office, Chuck Schumer became the leader of the Democrats in the Senate and was like one of the most beholden Democrats to Israel. Like, you know, it's a disaster situation. But if they, Iran, you know, is. is even handed in this, and that's a big if because of all of the humiliation that they don't want to be humiliated by the Americans and because of all the violence we've inflicted, then I do think that there can be an off ramp, especially because Trump is doing, as you say, this market manipulation, we're like, he lifted sanctions on the Ronnie oil. Yeah. Like, like, because he's that he knows how oil prices are going to affect the markets. So that's the only thing that seems to be moving him. And he's doing, he's doing things that are not in the American. American interests, even with an interest that I don't agree with, to manipulate the markets

of oil prices don't get so out of control because he wants a rhetorical victory or the appearance of him looking like the tough guy. Yeah. And isn't that incredible? Like, they, they, they, we are so, our government, our democracy is really on, it's like last legs at this point because our foreign policy and. So many of the actions of this government, and again, I do include Biden in this with his foreign policy, is so disconnected from public opinion. How can you have, you know, something like only eight or nine percent of Democrats approving of Israel's military action in Gaza and then have the leader of the Democrats in the Senate saying, my job is to keep the left pro-Israel?

Well, you're failing at your real job. You're failing at your fake job, dude. and you're not responding to your voters. So another part of where the Democrats have really failed us is they haven't practiced democracy internally as they preach it to the rest of the country. No one buys them on democracy when they don't listen to their own voters

about the direction of their policy and including trying to get Biden to run again when everybody was like, don't do it. They prioritize the institutional like, the institution of Biden or maintaining his power, despite his enormous unpopularity, and didn't listen to their own voters and yet preach democracy to the rest of the country.

So they need to practice it internally so they can get some credibility back. Okay. Headphones on real quick. I want to play something for Emma. And look, the reason why I'm playing this is because we're playing this because like this is, the Cuba could be next.

Cuba seems very likely. to be next. Yeah. And anyone who's paying attention, and we have a very informed, uh, listenership knows that there are forces inside of America that have worked to destabilize Cuba for generations ever since the revolution there. Almost a mirror image situation to Iran in a lot of ways, right? Um, once again, know a lot of Cubans.

No a lot of Cubans here's stateside. No a lot of Cubans down in South Florida. and the ones that are here have a differing perspective on whether or not we should go in. I thought this was interesting because this comes from the Dan Lebertar show and these guys are Cuban

but they're also lefties. They're lefties. They have the reputation of being lefties. Play this for Emma and let's get her response to it. I believe the streets of Miami will rejoice the way Venezuelans did throughout Miami when we did what we did. as a country to Venezuela, when the Cuban people stop suffering.

I believe that there will be a great celebration in the streets when this regime falls. I cannot quite stomach this person's motives in being the one who gets the credit for finally bringing to freedom an island that's been rotting for 70 years. Same. He's got to get credit for it. And it'll justify, I think, what is very clearly a failing. administration to a lot of Cuban-American magas, they'll be able to overlook some heinous, corrupt stuff. And I think people on the left side of the political spectrum that I identify with that right now,

eat it. This will be a tremendous thing, a liberated Cuba. And I think it's a byproduct of what happened with Venezuela, as messy as that is right now. I know people are hopeful for, for re-elections and regime change, even though Donald Trump was confused as to the gender of the current leader of Venezuela, it's the right hand of Maduro and they're still in place and the U.S. has their oil. Cutting off that power spout, it's why all these Cuban special forces people were guarding Maduro, that was the final nail in the coffin. There is national power grid failure in Cuba and now you have taken what precious little

human human what am I looking for here there is just a base level of life at Cuba that they're willing to suffer through and being able to turn on the lights is one of them it's one big check box

human necessities are looking for right yes thank you and they don't have that anymore the people might literally tear what's left of the government to shreds if this continues much longer they're just got to tap out this is a TKO That like this is 60 years in the making.

Donald Trump is fortunate enough to be in this place right now in history. And I'm really happy for the liberation of that island. I'm happy that it's happening in my lifetime. It's just a matter of time. And I'm not going to give you some liberal spin on it. I'm worried about having this administration in place for such a pivotal time, given that Venezuela's a mess. or can be if we don't hit all our marks there, but it's better than what they had.

And I'm honored and privileged to be alive to watch that regime fall or be choked out. So I will say this. I've listened to that a couple of times. Every time I listen to it, I've heard a couple of things from there. Number one, it's unclear whether or not they're advocating for the U.S. government to vote to Q.

That's unclear. Although if they're not, it seems odd. that they are positioning the failure of the Cuban regime as a win for Donald Trump. It seems like it would only be a win for him if he was proactive in bringing the regime to its end. Meaning if we went in there and we did something, the regime falls because of the brutal economic stations that we've had on Cuba for decades. And this is the culmination of that, then that is what it is. But it seems at this point that's at least a soft endorsement of us. being directly involved in oucing that regime.

How do you respond to that? I obviously really deeply disagree with a lot of what was said there. I mean, Cuba, I think, is humiliating for the United States. It's 20 miles off our shore and we've been unable, despite dozens of attempts on Castro's life in like the 60s and 70s, including attempted assassinations where... A blow up a cigar. A blow up a cigar.

that we tried to enlist the mob to do so. I mean, you know, I wouldn't say I'm a conspiracy theorist, but, you know, I believe that the government, you know, helped assassinate MLK and Malcolm X, like these are, and probably JFK as well. This was a time where our intelligence community was completely out of control. And they were invested in toppling any government, specifically in Latin America and within the Americas.

that was moving towards a more left-wing or socialist or communist government, where they would have more control over their own resources. And Cuba was successful, despite being so tiny and right off of our shores, at staving off both efforts to assassinate Castro and efforts to topple the regime. And Cuban people are incredibly proud of that, the ones that remain. The diaspora in Florida is a lot more right-wing. and they've become quite powerful. Marco Rubio sees himself as kind of the avatar for that diaspora that wants to be able to return to Cuba so that they can, capital interests can flourish there.

And there's a lot of talk about Cuba as this failed state. As you mentioned, rightly, Van, and with Venezuela, it is the sanctions. It is the United States using sanctions and cutting off trade with these countries that are not aligned with us. us from the rest of the world that does sometimes, you know, increase poverty and there are issues there. But Cuba is more advanced than the United States in medicine. Cuba is like led the way on their own kind of COVID vaccine despite being a fairly small island. And I think that there isn't really much strategic benefit to what we're doing there except because, except to appease this far right Cuban diaspora that has seen Cuba as this humiliation. So, you know, Trump is in many ways a

throwback. He talks about how he's the Don Roe doctrine guy, which is the Monroe Doctrine. What he's referring to is this, the declaration in the 1800s that the entire Western Hemisphere belonged to America by right. And it was a way to say, like, hey, the Spain, the French, like, no, we're going to be able to colonize over here. You can do something. You can do your own stuff elsewhere. He's returning to that kind of foreign policy where might makes right. And so celebrating this is crazy to me, especially because like, yeah, it's not just their power going out. With this oil blockade, like, there are people on dialysis. There are babies and incubators. Like, this was an effort to kill Cubans and think that, like, they wouldn't have this understanding despite all of that cultural history that I'm talking about and all of that political history.

That it was America doing this and they think it's their own government. They know it's the American blockade. There's like a real, you said arrogance earlier, Rachel. There's this arrogance and Western chauvinism and frankly just racism. That's in the administration where they underestimate anybody that is not. not a white person or a white country. And they think that through might, they can change the governments to their will. But Iran knows and the Iranian people understand that this is America trying to do this in Israel.

Cuba understands that this is America trying to do this. So they constantly, these like Western powers underestimate the resilience and the intelligence of the people that they're trying to dominate in the global South. I guess that was just hard to listen to as well because you're saying one thing on one hand, but then you're comparing it to Venezuela and what happened and the lack of regime change and like what are they doing? It's a mess. To use his words, it's a mess. So when you talk about Cuba, how can you even have anything that goes towards hope of it being better when you're comparing it to a Venezuela? I just like, I was like looking like this the entire time because I was like,

I'm not quite understanding the logic here. And Cuba, I mean, and Venezuela, what was the victory that Trump got there? They see that as an incredibly successful operation. That's why Rubio has been a little bit cozier with Trump recently because they kidnapped Maduro. But the government's still in place. They do, they're, Delci Rodriguez is running the country and they're basically running with a gun to her head, you know, saying, we can do this to you if you don't appease us. But there was no regime change. So to your point, even their stated goals they're failing at.

It's just a it's like a head on a spike for Trump. And we come back to like how our foreign policy is being led to appease the incredibly shallow perspective on the world from an aging pedophile racist, narcissists, dementia-ridden psychopath. Rachel doesn't like when you say that he's losing his mind. He obviously is having some issue. That's not true. That's not true. That's not true. I think it's more as you just laid out than that.

Before I get off this, I think when I'm trying to hit on here is the tension between like particularly those guys who at least self-identified are not right wing, right? Right. I wonder if the tension throughout the diaspora of these various communities comes from this deeply ingrained belief in America as deliberators of oppressed people across the world.

You know, If you're talking about like this kind of post-World War II, we beat the Nazis and liberated Europe. We are the good guys that existed for a long time, but post-Vietnam started to dissipate into where we got like, should we have done this? I'm not so sure if these people don't seem liberated, three million dead, all of this kind of situation.

If that is more resilient than I think it is, or if there's this deep connection, the men in that room, the Iranian people that we know, to the stories that they've been told by their parents and grandparents and people who they know of the atrocities by whatever regime existed. And they still want to believe that America will be the liberator that the boots on the brown, the American soldier, will stick his hand out and pick the child up,

his or her hand out, and then that country will fall into democracy. The oil will flow. And next thing you know you got McDonald's. Yeah. I mean, I think, right. Well, liberal is the right word. He described himself as a liberal. And frankly, he probably is. Like, leftism and liberalism are different things. Liberals believe that, like, markets are, for the most part, the most efficient way to allocate resources. I don't believe that as a leftist. I think you have to have the heavy hand of the state. We're seeing it right now. And they believe in things like liberal values of, say, like, human rights or, like, LGBTQ rights. And so, like, that within our our Democratic Party and Republican Party context, we don't have a parliamentary system, liberals get funneled in the same group of people that are, you know, voting for someone like Zoran Mamdani. And so it is actually kind of an accurate perspective on liberals who I'm experiencing the same thing when I speak to them, where there's this like, and Israel's really beginning to shatter it, but it took a really long time because I think there's, when you look at World War II,

Israel was framed as reparations for the Holocaust and even Tanahasi Coates has spoken about how he thought of it in that way and he's changed his mind about it because of new information and I think it's like really commendable and his last book touched on that so well and he received, I don't know if you saw that interview with Tony Doeco. Who I call Tony Two Cuts on our show because I don't know if you know this. He converted to Judaism and got recircumcised. Oh, really? You want to know, oh, he wrote an article about it if you want to read it. It's really disgusting. What that involves is just a slice of the penis. I don't know. I don't want this.

No, come on, man. I'm sorry. Tony two cuts is wild. Tony two cuts. But do you guys remember that interview with Coats where he was, where he said your book should belong in the backpack of a terrorist? But, but like, so I do think there are people that are really reticent to see a as the bad guys right now.

But it's really hard for, I think anybody, it's usually younger people that are, who live through the Iraq war, but didn't live through kind of the Cold War where coming off that history of World War II and there being this kind of viewpoint of this existential fight between capitalism and communism and capitalism being about freedom and communism being about repression. Those, those, that still echoes in people's minds. So you can also see it like sometimes older like boomers and stuff, even if they're Democrats which is like reflexively hatred of Russian people, hate Russian people or like are really Islamophobic

out of nowhere. And it's because they bought into like America's national security being a force for good. And that's obviously not the case, especially now. Last question for me. And this isn't to take away anything that we talked about because it's obviously important. But what's something that we should be paying attention to that we're not because of, and we should be talking about this war that's going on, but it's falling other than the Epstein files. Yeah. Like what's something else that, hey, they want you to forget about this or whatever.

It's losing the attention it should be getting because of this. Ooh, okay. And it could be several things. Yeah, yeah. I'll bring in two things into it, but just voter suppression is going to be the overall topic. One, like, Trump is insistent and that he wants to pass the Save Act. John Thune, leader in the Senate is saying, you're not going to have the votes for that unless you get rid of the filibuster. Now, the filibuster is a deeply undemocratic rule that we have because, for example, when Biden was president, there were, at one point, there were 50 Democratic senators and 50 Republican senators.

The 50 Republican senators represent 40 million fewer people than the 50 Democrats, just to give you a sense, like you have two senators from California and two from Wyoming. That doesn't make, that that's, it's already very disproportionately stacked in the Republicans favor, the Senate institution. On top of that, when it, we have the filibuster and that applies to everything that doesn't pertain really to the budget, that means that you need a 60 vote threshold for, any legislation that doesn't pertain essentially to the budget. And that would include something like this SAVE Act that they're trying to push, which would disenfranchise tens of millions of people across the country, including like 70 million women that changed their name on and it doesn't match their birth certificate after they got married. It would be going after a people who don't have driver's licenses and also a driver's license would be insufficient. You would need a second

form of ID. That's poorer people, that's disabled people who don't drive. It's like the people that take the bus that may not have that form of ID. So it's obviously racialized in how they're targeting it as well. That is good. Trump is trying to get them to get rid of the filibuster to pass that. Now, John Thune was schooled by Mitch McConnell and he knows, look, the Senate institution is already so in our favor because of the dynamics I described there. Not only are we like disproportionately represented as Republicans, we also need 60 votes to pass any kind of legislation so democracy dies in the Senate to a degree. We can't get rid of this. This is our best tool, but Trump wants this so badly that he's putting enormous pressure on John Thune right now to do that.

So we have to watch that. I still think it's not as likely, but the possibility of legislation passing because it's already passed the House that would disenfranchise tens of millions of people is horrifying. And then that brings me to what we're seeing right now with ICE. And Trump's saying that he's going to send ICE agents to because of the partial shutdown over DHS funding to assist at the airport. I'm flying tomorrow. I'm, I'm fucked.

I've got to get there really early. LAX isn't bad. Oh, it's not that bad. Okay, good. I just flew in. Okay, good to know. Good to know. But like ice, I think that they're going to send ICE agents.

with any willing governor to polling stations in November. Because what Texas is in play right now. Because right now there's a runoff with Cornyn and Paxton. The Republicans are in a bit of disarray. And the Latino swings against Trump across the country are seismic, seismic in what we're seeing. This is a very advantageous situation for Tala Rica. How do you make it less advantageous? You intimidate Latino voters at polling stations and I think that's a real possibility and you know and and Abbott's gonna be like hell yeah

Send them in couple things I dare them on a filibuster thing that would be hilarious if yeah Yeah, yeah I mean we had whatever I dare them on that secondly I do think the Once again hyperbole van I do think that ice at polling stations could end up being some of the first battles of the American Civil War. I try not to be hyperbolic, but I mean, it does set up a real situation. I absolutely see that happen. A legitimate chance at actual real widespread violence.

Yeah. That ends up with people who feel suppressed and who are angry, who are out there to change their government, not feeling that they can do that. and then getting into a situation where they decide, the only thing to do is to bang it out with the government. And it is a tremendously dangerous and escalatory calculation. It just is. Absolutely.

That's them of Viglin, guys. I hope that you guys feel fantastic about everything that's going on. But what else you got going on? Tell us, you know, what? No, I mean, I'm so happy to be here. I was telling. Yeah, I was telling Van, you know, I'm like a total girl crush on you.

You're amazing. You're all right. You're all right, too, Van. Now, I love the show. You guys are doing great stuff. I'm so happy to be here in person. But yeah, you can check out the majority report with Sam Cedar and myself as the co-host. We're a daily political left-wing talk show.

We have very dry interviews about things like Social Security or Sudan or, you know, authors on. But we also, like, that's the first hour of our show, the free part. and then the fun half is when we make fun of right wingers and that's what people seem to enjoy the most. So we make a fun of Tim Poole a lot, Candace Owens. Not Tim Poole. What's the brother with the glasses on the show? Matluck.

The brother, the brother with the glasses. Oh, on Tim Poole? No, no, not on Tim Poole on you guys' show. Oh, I mean, oh, with the glass. Oh, Brandon. Yeah. Okay, okay. I like Brandon.

Brandon Sutton. Everybody check out the discourse with Brandon. He's actually one. I learned something from him every single time that we speak. He's one of the smartest people that if he didn't, if he didn't, he doesn't live in New York. I wish he could be in the studio all the time. But Brandon Sutton, check out the discourse. He's brilliant.

Yeah, he comes in like he's got his own little deal. He's not ever. I like him. Yeah. You can follow him at at Pretty Bad Lefty on Twitter and he has some banger tweets. Brandon Sutton. How do you say his name? Brandon Sutton, but he at Pretty Bad Lefty. Oh, okay.

Because when you, when you pop up Brandon Sutton is the guy that pop up. up. No, no, he gets a little... I know that's not him. He's a little incognito because this is not his first job on social media, but if you follow him on pretty bad lefty, like he has some banger tweets. Thank you, Emma. Everybody, get out there

and vote while you still can. Thank you for joining us on Ireland. Thank you guys. Thank you so much. We might hold over if we can get an interview. The Team USA we're not going to talk about this. The Team USA squad, a flag football squad beat the NFL players, beat the shit out of them.

And we were going to talk about this, but I want to interview with my homie from down New Orleans. I think his name is Darnel Doucette. Oh, yeah, the one who called him out. 5-7-140 at QB going crazy. What is 5-7? 5-7-140 going crazy at QB. The flag football thing is an interesting thing because...

I thought you said we weren't going to talk about it. We're not. I'm just going to say this. Think about this. A lot of NFL players want to be in the Olympics. They want an Olympic gold medal, but you can't get one. Because football is not Olympic. sport.

Flag football is an Olympic sport. And so the schism here is between a lot of highly skilled football players that want the opportunity to get a gold medal and a bunch of flag football players that this is their fucking sport. Yeah. So it's very interesting cultural situation. Hopefully we can have an interview on there or something like that. But we've got to go right now.

We've given you guys a lot of podcasts. It's almost three hours with the podcast. You're fucking kidding me. Take 10 caps off. Do not stop learning on Van Laithin Jr. Guard yourselves. The jihad is upon us. I'm Rachel Lamency.

Bye, guys.