Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Banning TikTok, Actively Black, and Controversial Feet Pics

Episode Date: March 15, 2024

Today, Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay are joined by Ashley Gold, a tech and policy reporter at Axios, to talk about the TikTok ban (05:26). Then, the two bring back the “Is Van Wrong?” segment (25:03) and discuss the internet’s response to Karrueche Tran’s OnlyFans announcement on Instagram (49:09). Later, they are joined by the CEO of the fashion sports brand Actively Black, Lanny Smith, to talk about the creation of the brand and his recent apology video (47:49). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guests: Ashley Gold and Lanny Smith Producer: Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, yo, thought lawyers. What is up? Howdy, partners. Howling is all. Is I, Van Lacey Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. We know it was coming. I got my cowboy having to do.

We knew it. It's, I can't, I really can't hate on it, man. It really is a good luck for you. It's, it really is. It's my birthday. Don't take it off. Well, you know, it's actually very timely because seeing how you have a surgery, an upcoming surgery,

you're going to want to cover that head, you know, as it grows in, then falls out, then comes back. So this is actually very smart, very, very smart. You know, you know what happened to me when I was getting on the plane coming back from Austin? What? I almost missed my, I almost missed my flight because I fell asleep in the airport.

And you know how I fell asleep? It's too much. It's too much. Dad, you are not living out of real life, Wester. You need to calm down. For you guys are listening, I did the whole deal where I took my hat and I put it over my face and blocked the sun.

I've seen my dad do that many a time. All of these things are, they're part of me. Yo, I want to let people know something right now. I'm giving everybody the opportunity to crash out. We're going to start doing something here called crash out, To do what? Crashing out. Okay.

Getting on there and just talking your shit, crashing out in a major motherfucking way. Everybody that wants to crash out. If you have, if you got something that's going on in your life and you just fucking fed up about it, you just fucking going crazy. Fridays on this podcast, send us a video or you crashing the fuck out. And we're going to play your shit, man.

I'm talking about you sick of the bullshit. You're sick. You're ready to turn up. You're ready to get somebody. You're ready to grab them. You're ready to yoke them the fuck up. You're sick of it. You're tired of the bullshit.

Just crash out. Get it off your chest. Crash the fuck out. Send us a video. We're going to put it on High Learning. I've seen a couple of crash outs here on. You crashed out last night? I did, but it was off the record.

Oh, okay. So we can't talk about your crash out. We can't talk about it. You guys, we got to. two guests today. We got Lainey Smith from Actively Black is joining us today to talk about Actively Black and about a message that he had to take off of his

sweatshirts that offended some black women. Lany's going to join the show a little bit later. And we got Ashley Gold. She's going to talk to us about TikTok and the band-in of the talking on the other side of this break. The playoffs are here and you can predict the action all the way to the final with Fandul Predicts. Predict the spread,

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See terms at fanduel.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimfaya, guselcomab, taken by injection, is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy, and for adults with active psoriotic arthritis. Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur.

Before a treatment, your doctor should check you for infections in tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about trim fire. Tap this ad to learn more about trimfaya, including important safety information. I'm in Washington, D.C. right now. And last night, I had dinner with the vice president.

And I got to represent. Kamala Harris? Yes, man. What other vice president? Who all was there? You know, I don't know if I can say who I was there, but there were eight other people representing some type of media platform. New York Times, CNN, MSNBC.

One guy, we're going to go on his podcast. You talk to him multiple times. He's like, if he has a hard person he can touch with it, I was like, I know. I was like, give me your number. I'll schedule it. I don't know who you're talking about. Tim Miller. So he was there.

love this podcast. Love your work. Y'all've had great conversation. So I was like, I'll play secretary and make sure Van gets on the podcast. It was a really great off-the-record conversation where we were able to ask any and everything. And I was honored to be invited to sit at the table. Eight people were there. And to represent higher learning.

Because really, that's what I did. I asked questions about things we've specifically talked about on this podcast. That's amazing. How did you find her to be? Did you find her to be loving? Like, very down to earth. A lot of things she said made sense. There was a reason that particular people were called. And I really, really enjoyed it. Like, it was worth it for me to come. I would come again. I felt like things that we said were heard. We got to hear of her perspective on a lot of different things as well. And yeah, it was really good. And at the end, I told her, I was like, now, you know, I'm D9. I said they try to put us against each other. They try to, they try to turn us against each other.

Why are you trying to suck up to the VP, man? That's not a suck up. That's a fact. Oh, you know, I'm, you know, I'm D9. You know, I'm D9. She's an A.K.A. She rules you. She rules you.

Okay. That's definitely a fact. She's an A.K.A. She rules. over you. Van, move on. The first. Move on. Three with the first. Okay. All right. Let's get into the show.

TikTok is in peril. We have a guest on the other side of this break. All right, listen. Guess what I'm not going to do. I'm not going to pretend like I'm an expert on what's going on in terms of TikTok. I know that we've had a conversation here before

about the efforts to Ben. TikTok and the ticking and the talking, okay? It is a big, huge cultural and political deal up there in Capitol Hill right now. The question is, are the youth being ostracized by the political establishment up there in Washington? Is TikTok a national security threat? Like, Rachel, there's a lot of stuff. People are talking about the ticking and the talking that's going on right now. I'm the tick.

I'm on the TikTok. I'm not I'm not I Higher Learning does well on TikTok to be very honest with you Um Listen I'm concerned about this I really am and I'm really interested to hear what Ashley has to say Because the timing we know

Biden isn't faring the best with Jin Z And I also think that When you think about what TikTok did in the previous election And how people were able to gather in numbers And really make an impact I think that it's really problematic. Like I think this benefits one side more than the other if this moves forward.

I don't know how likely it is, but if it does, I think one's going to win and one's going to hurt. So the TikTok ban passed in the House questions about how it's going to fare in the Senate and what exactly is at the base of the effort to ban TikTok. we're going to bring in Ashley Gold.

Okay, so guys, TikTok is in peril. All you tickers and you talkers might be in a situation where you don't have a talk to tick pretty soon. I've done as much research on this as I can, and I still kind of don't quite understand everything. That's why we're bringing in back up. Tech and policy reporter at Axios covering regulators and big tech. Love that. Author of Axios Pro, tech policy. It's previously worked for political, the information, and BBC News.

Ashley Gold joins us today on Higher Learning. Ashley, I'll get right into it. Is TikTok fried? TikTok is at its most vulnerable moment that it's had since it started getting really popular in the U.S. We've seen attempts at bands before. this actually all started under the Trump administration when they originally tried to ban TikTok.

But we've had efforts sort of start and stop in the U.S. Congress and sort of the steam comes out of the room and lawmakers lose interest and move on to something else. But something happened in the House recently where they started moving on this really fast and they seemed absolutely determined to get a bill done. So they're not fried, they're not toast until the president signs the bill. And this bill has to get through the Senate,

which is always a little harder than getting through the house. But it is a precarious moment for TikTok that that's undeniable. So Biden has said that he would sign it, though, if it comes across his desk. And obviously a younger generation is on TikTok. And I find this very interesting that this is passing through right now in this moment. And I'm wondering if you're hearing how this could possibly affect Biden in the upcoming election. did he sign it? Or even a Trump who, you know, we're always like, oh, they're out there putting out all these theories out there, but this one has some weight on it and it's moving through

Congress. Yeah, I think if Democrats and Biden aren't worried about the impact, this would have on young voters they should be. There was a lot of TikTok creators up on Capitol Hill this week, meeting with lawmakers, rallying outside of the Capitol, holding signs about how TikTok, you know, found them a community that saved their life or helped them run a business or started their whole career. And if TikTok goes away, they're going to vote,

knowing how people voted on this. And Biden can't afford to lose any young voters right now, especially considering a lot of Gen Z is disenchanted with him anyway. The weird thing is President Biden's re-election campaign recently joined TikTok. So there's a weird

a line to tow here because they realize TikTok is where they meet young voters where they are. So the cynical D.C. side of me thinks President Biden is expressing his support, knowing it, you know, it might not actually pass, but he could

say he would have signed it. You know, we see that happen in D.C. a lot. But it is a bipartisan thing that they think TikTok is a national security concern. There's a lot of different threads that play here. A lot of different politicians that are on opposite sides of the aisle agreeing with each other on certain

things. Both Marjorie Taylor Green and Maxwell Frost voted against the spell yesterday in the house. So there's some very strange bedfellows going on. And we have to see how it plays out. But it's a weird one. I'm going to come back to what some people think is the impetus for doing this now and why it's picked up so much steam at this particular juncture in a second. But just from a bird's eye view, what's the argument that people put forth for banning TikTok? The base of the argument is that because

TikTok is owned by ByteDance and ByteDance is a Chinese company the perceived future national security threats are high. Because in China, there's something called a national security law that basically says any Chinese company has

to cooperate with the government and hand over information to the government at any given time that is a long in China, there's this fear that the Chinese Communist Party officials could just go to Biden and say, hey, hand us over a bunch of data on U.S. users and that Bytons wouldn't be able to say no, just by nature of being a Chinese company. Now, there's no evidence that the CCP has gone to Biden's and asked for information. They've said as much under oath during congressional testimony. They said they never have been asked for data and that they wouldn't have

hand it over. But there's this idea that it's just too risky to let a Chinese own company have this much influence in such a big operation in the U.S., especially when it's reaching so many people, so many young people. So it's more about sort of it being a loaded gun than us finding this like smoking gun evidence that it's already been bad. And that is the argument that I hear most often. But there has, and maybe I feel like we talked about it before on this podcast, has there been data that has been used or has there been spying on, wasn't there something with journalists and in some way this has been weaponized against Americans? Is there some sort of evidence to that and has more come out in regards to that to help further this bill, move this bill forward? So there's couple instances you're talking about, yes. There was evidence that by Dancent,

employees looked up user data on journalists. Those employees were later fired. And from what we know, the reason why they looked up data on journalists was because they were trying to find internal leakers from the company who were handing out information to the press when they weren't supposed to be doing. So it was more about their internal sort of witch hunt of who did the leaking than actually trying to like stock these journalists. Not saying that's a good excuse, but that was the explanation given. There's also been instances where

this is a little more in the weeds, but the whole reason TikTok has been able to defend itself is because it embarked on this project to sort of separate all the U.S. user data and keep it in the United States housed by the company Oracle.

So there has been some reporting that the U.S. user data is supposed to stay here. It's not supposed to go overseas. there's been reports that occasionally bite-dance employees in China will ask for US user data and that it's gone through a couple times. The important thing to remember is that, yes, maybe some of the data has gone to bite-dance employees in China,

but there's no specific evidence that it's gone to the Chinese government. So there's a lot of inflation going on that they're beholden to the CCP, just because they're a Chinese company. Maybe the intelligence community has information that I don't have, But we haven't seen specific evidence of that. There also was recently an intelligence report that the Chinese Communist Party was using social media to try to influence elections around the world. But I just want to remind everyone that this is something we've seen before. Russia tried to interfere in our election in 2016 via social media.

All they had to do was buy Facebook ads. So it doesn't necessarily mean, you know, they're using their government powers to do that. Anybody could meddle in American elections by placing videos on social media with divisive messages trying to rile people up. The difference, of course, is that those are still American companies and they're not owned by a Chinese company. And that's always what, you know, gets lawmakers in the end. Who stands to gain from a business perspective if TikTok is banned? well there's there's some weird some weird flavors here so

you know obviously tictox biggest you know short form video sharing competitor is meta in instagram you know you've got youtube shorts and a couple other companies but you know Instagram real isn't TikTok are really the two to watch so you know meta would stand to benefit from not having

TikTok as a competitor anymore they have spent the past however many years in washington trying to say, hey, we're not a huge monopoly. We're not even that dominant anymore. Look how much TikTok is eating our lunch. So they've been useful to meta in that way as a means of comparison. And saying, hey, we do have competition.

But at the same time, they worry about them because they're at their heels. However, I'm now starting to hear that tech companies are getting a little wary of this bill because they don't love the precedent in sense. Of course. the ability for the government to decide a bill as a national security concern and ban it. That's a little scared to them too. So, you know, I don't know how much they're going to love it if it actually goes through. Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

I was wondering what does this mean for current social media platforms? What does it mean for the future of social media platforms? And I had no idea that there was some precedent to this in regards to Grindr. I didn't know that that had been and they got them to sell the company, just what they So if you could speak to that and then also, I know that they're not saying completely ban it. They're saying if you sell it, then we'll be okay. Is that something that you could see happening? So let me speak to Grindr.

So Grindr had a Chinese owner and Grindr went through something called a Sipheus Review, which is the committee for foreign investment in the United States. whenever there's a foreign owner of a company and they have significant financial interest in a company that's running in the U.S., often this governmental panel will review it and make a recommendation. In the case of Grindr, they made a recommendation that it could keep operating in the U.S., but it had to be sold to an American owner, and Grinder agreed. And they were sold from a Chinese owner to a U.S. owner that happened back in 2019. Granger still exists today and, you know, runs in a spine. The difference is that was done through Scythias. TikTok, you know, the companies work with them.

It's a back and forth. It's not sort of this demand the way a bill would be. TikTok had been going through its own Sipheus process that was meant to come to a conclusion like that. but it just never wrapped up Sifias never came back to TikTok and said, all right, here's what you can do and that's why we're seeing so much action on the hill

because I think ultimately what was decided that was whatever Sipfias came up with wasn't going to be good enough and they were going to have to do legislation but they were on the path to sort of go the way of Grindr and come to an agreement and then politics sort of got in the way

and that didn't happen the second thing you asked about would they actually sell. So ByDance TikTok has made it really clear that they're not interested in selling. That's why they keep calling it a band because I don't think that they think a sale is feasible. I don't think they want to sell. They have said that all the money they've invested into the data separating out process I described, they called Project Texas. They said that cost $1.5 billion

and what new owner would be willing to continue supporting that project and putting up that kind of money. And also, the Chinese government has already come out against the bill and made it clear that they don't want by dance to sell. So you kind of have to read into that.

If you truly think a sale isn't feasible, why is being owned by a Chinese company so important to you. Does that give away the whole game? I don't know. It depends on who you ask. But the way that TikTok has been talking about this, they have no interest in selling.

So, you know, we keep talking about a sale as if it's so easy and something they can just take care of. But it's not that simple. Last question for me. There are those who believe that TikTok's specific power in mobilizing political movements political thought

and exposing people worldwide to different political action is a reason why some on the hill want TikTok banned particularly in this instance the ongoing war

in gossip and that the TikTokers, the youth, have mobilized to show, to depict, to ask for solidarity surrounding the plight of the Palestinian people, and that the United States has put their foot on the gas in a bipartisan way to try to stop that maybe before the election or maybe before they lose complete intellectual control over the youth in terms of this. Do you see anything like that being possible? Do you think that this is getting to the point that it's getting to specifically because of what's going on in the Middle East right now? I hesitate to draw a direct line between the two things.

It is definitely true that some lawmakers have noticed just how much pro-Gaza, pro-Palestinian rights content there is on TikTok. sort of compared to the pro-Israel sentiment. And maybe that's a motivating factor for a handful of lawmakers who perhaps weren't really paying attention to this debate before. But now they're getting involved. I wouldn't call it anything that's a good number one driver, only because this has been going on for a long time. The first attempts to ban TikTok were back in 2019, 2020,

and we've seen other things, other trends, other things in the news sort of peak, ebb, and flow on TikTok, some which makes lawmakers mad, some which they're happy about, some which makes the right happy, some which makes the left happy. So maybe it's the latest thing that's like a flashpoint politically that is sort of popping on TikTok, but I wouldn't say that lawmakers are solely motivated by that and that's why they're pushing it through. I would call it sort of part of the atmosphere that has led to this moment, but it's not the number one thing. Right, you got anything else?

Just last for me, when would we expect some sort of, can we expect some sort of decision? I think we'll know if the Senate is going to act quickly probably within a couple weeks. We have to pay attention to what Senator Chuck Schumer is actually prioritizing right now. He doesn't put bills on the floor unless he really likes them and unless he knows that they will pass.

So it's either going to happen really soon or it's good if it's not happening at all is usually how it goes with these whole things. Chances, real quick, chances that it passes the Senate just from your expertise. I give it about a 50-50 right now. Oh, wow. You guys might be all out of ticks

and all out of talks. I don't know, I mean, the creators, I'm sure they'll be back on the hill to keep having their voices heard. I'm sure I'll be seeing them in the hall. soon. Yeah. Dangerous precedent.

Dangerous precedent. Ashley Gold, where can they find you on Twitter? Thank you so much for joining us today on higher learning. Thanks for having me.

Ashley are gold. There you go. All right, Ashley. Thank you so much. We'll check back in with you to see what happens and see how close we are.

Absolutely. Happy to come back. Bye. Rachel, what do you think is going to happen? She said 50-50. 50. It's interesting

when she said about Senator Schumer, but the fact that Biden said that he would sign it, I feel like sways people. I feel like I can understand how that's strategic, but it's like, oh, well, the president thinks we should. So maybe more liberals will feel like we should sign this or more moderates might feel like they should sign it. I mean, it does sound like that there's a real security threat here.

My brother-in-law works in cybersecurity, and he does not for TikTok at all. He tells me constantly how problematic it is. Yeah. So it sounds like that there's a real issue here, but we're. Will people be able to see past that when it comes to the election? Your brother-in-law, you say? That's right. It's part of the deep state.

Interesting. All right. So, this is interesting. This episode is brought to by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need weather tech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner. Or a road trip goes sideways.

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Services not available in all areas. All right, look, you guys, here's the question. We have to talk about Joe Rogan a little bit. Now, look, we have to play a game here, and the game is, is Van Roan? Yay! Oh yeah, I love this game. Is Van Rung? I love this game.

He's big and fat like he's King Kong. Is he wrong? I don't like that. Did Ben get it wrong? Yeah. All right. So is Van Rung, the game we play in today. By way, King Kong's not fat.

Why King Kong catch a string? He's actually got, you like him? What's your thoughts? You caught a strike. Like, I don't, I'm not into that. I just went. I saw Doom. Wow.

Liza Aga'i. Lisan Agaib. Lisan Agaib. But there was a, there was a preview for the new Kong. That doesn't it look ridiculous. And I just don't understand. Yeah, I'll go see.

They just don't understand how this keeps happening. They won an Oscar for the last one. And by the way, Kong and Godzilla, they homies now. It's crazy. Okay, look. So back to Joe Rogan. So Joe Rogan is,

maybe the most popular media media figure could be ever. His podcast numbers are ridiculous. Let me tell you how big Joe Rogan's podcast is just so you guys try to understand. When people are comparing podcast numbers, they throw Rogan out. They don't even count Rogan. It's like when people are doing business and they're trying to figure out, okay, who's the biggest podcast? They go, Rogan, they set him aside. It is not even the thing.

He's like fucking Johnny Carson or something like that. That's how big his podcast is. Here's the thing. Increasingly, I would say, from what I've, I don't listen to the podcast that much, but I do listen to it sometimes. Increasingly over the past couple of years, Joe Rogan has become,

I guess, more so than what I used to remember. He's become more critical of the left, it seems, particularly President Biden, which is his right. And he also seems to be, more ideologically and intellectually aligned with the sort of Q&N, a whole bro conspiracy theory, theory realm of things. Is that fair? And the railing against the wokeness, the whole thing.

You guys know the guys that I'm talking about. They got the hats and they got the sunglasses on top of their hats. You know, those guys, it seems like those are kind of, you guys know what I'm talking about. That's like Rogan's kind of thing now. And I know a lot of people who know Joe Rogan. I've never met him before.

I know a lot of people who've been on the show. Jason Wilson, I talked about, went on Rogan show. Did a lot for him. Did a lot for the book. Did a lot for his carls and a whole night. But for me,

I have, like, been out on Joe Rogan for a while now. And that might have prompted me to be wrong. We got two video clips that we're going to play. I heard a video clip from, Joe Rogan. And it seemed as if in this video clip, Rogan was criticizing diversity in Joe Rogan's cat,

in Joe Biden's capital and saying that they were incompetent because they were diverse. All right. Rachel, did you hear this clip? I heard this clip. Okay. Let's play the clip. I would vote for Trump before I'd vote for Biden. Just because of the thing with Biden, like, he's no, he's, he's, he's, he's gone. Like, you know he's gone. You're going to be relying on his cabinet. And I knew his cabinet

would be this fucking side show of diversity, and which is exactly what it is. You can't have those kind of people running a Ben and Jerry's. You certainly can't have those kind of people running the fucking most powerful government the world's ever known. It's nuts. It's not. Okay. So, I heard that. And I got my six shooters out. My antenna's all the way up. Rachel, when you hear that, what do you hear? Of course. Standing alone, I might not jump to racism, but knowing certain things that he has said,

he has stood by, promoted, or had certain guests he'd had come on his podcast, I look at that to say to hear and hear, I listen to that and hear, Joe Rogan doesn't think that Biden is going to last in this election and thinks that the people that diverse hires are, subpart. They don't meet the criteria. They're not qualified. They can't do the job. And I particularly think he's talking about the vice president because that's who would be next in line. That's how I took it when I first heard it. Okay. So this is what I hear when I hear that. What I hear when I hear

that is look Joe Rogan thinks that people who are diverse aren't qualified to be where they are.

Diverse meaning whatever that is. Black, brown, gay, they're there because of diversity and the country

is less safe because they're there. Had a conversation with my friend Graham last night on Instagram, Graham, who...

Oh, you were on live for a long time last night. I had a fun time. I'm a scam. I kept popping in and out. Yeah, shout out to Graham. I was on me. Shout out to Graham, man. We had a very robust discussion that carried on into this morning and the Instagram DMs where I had to tell him to leave me alone. But shout out to Graham. Graham's a good guy. We don't have the same type of views, but he's a thoughtful, very dedicated guy to his, to the way that he thinks. Like, I hope he's, oh, we're still.

Now, let's say this. So in that conversation, I'll talk about the fact that when people say this about diversity, this trope goes along with the fact that, hey, if your pilot's black, your plane's going to fall eye in the sky, hey, if your chef is black or black woman, your food's going to be so parroth. That in some way, diversity means the eroding of the American experience or safety or in some way jeopardizes people's lives. That is what is being used to keep America white to me.

So when I heard that from Joe Rogan, I'm like, oh, my God, he's bought into so many other tropes. He's now bought into this trope that diversity means that the country is less safe or competent. And that's a direct shot at minorities and particularly black people. So I talked about it on the Instagram. That clip was edited. Okay. So the clip that Joe, that was sent was edited. we're going to play the second clip now

and in listening to the second clip I want everybody here all the thought warriors Rachel Ashley everyone to answer the question was then wrong Ashley run the second clip

cabinet would be this fucking side show of diversity and which is exactly what it is I mean that one person who stole all the women's clothes that Sam Brinton, we highlighted on the podcast yesterday, like that's a diversity hire. You just said, oh, look at this. A man who dresses like a woman and has a beard and a mustache but also wears lipstick, this is perfect for us.

I don't give a fuck what this guy's good at or bad at. I don't give a fuck what their credentials are. This makes us look like we're inclusive. This makes us look like we're on the right side. So let's hire this person. And you can't have those kind of people running a Ben and Jerry's. You certainly can't have those kind of people running the fucking most powerful government the world's ever known. It's nuts. It's nonsense.

Okay. So, listening to the clip without the edit, does the clip change? No. Why don't you say it like that? Does it change for you? I'm asking. It's worse. Like, Ashley, listening to the clip.

It's worse. Without the edit, does the clip change? It changed from him talking about race to him being possibly transphobic. I'm not really sure. Like, it just sounds like it's a whole other issue now. Okay, so this is what I'm saying. Go ahead, Lincoln.

Well, all I was going to say is, please continue, is that I think when you heard it the first time, it was general. So you could have speculated, you could have even made an excuse as to what he meant when he was referring to diversity because he wasn't specifically talking about a person or a group of people. In the second clip, he is, which is why I say it's worse.

All right, so this is what I would say. So in Biden's capital, there are one, two, three, four, five, six, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 people of color. Straight up black people, because you know how I love people of color. There is one, two, three, four, five, six black people, including the vice president, the secretary of defense, the secretary of defense, the secretary of, of housing and urban development, the administrator

of the Environmental Protection Agency, Michael Reagan, Michael Reagan, and the United States ambassador to the United Nations, all of those posts. The director of the office of management budget budget is Shalanda Young,

who is from Baton Rouge. So, this is what I'll say. The overall takeaway from that, To me is that what he used, Brinson, who's not even in Biden's capital, he used that example to state what he feels like is a bigger issue with the cabinet. And the bigger issue with the cabinet, he feels like, is that it's a diversity side show. And that diversity side show is filled with a bunch of people who are unqualified.

I use the case study in that. Okay? I don't feel like I was wrong. If I was wrong, I would say that I was wrong and I would apologize. But I feel like specifically criticizing the cabinet because the cabinet is diverse and then making the jump to the fact that the people in the cabinet are hired just because they're diverse. and there's a side show of diversity. By doing that to this one individual, you call into question the credentials of all of these people,

and it hammers home the point that diversity is bad for operational function and excellence in America. And that, to me, is inherently racist. That's a racist. It's not only racist. It's racist. It's sexist. It's transphobic. It's all of those things. but it's definitely racist. Anytime diversity means incompetence,

there is a racial component to that. I'm going to say that I am not wrong. I'm open to the conversation, but I thought that it was fair to play the unedited clip just to come back and have the conversation about whether or not Fat Kong was right or wrong. You know what I'm saying? Rachel, your thoughts?

I think that you're absolutely. No, I think no, it's not, there's not much to add to that. I think you're absolutely right. And I'm actually shocked that anybody would see it any other way. I think the first clip standing alone is bad enough. Because especially if you're paying attention to what's happening in this country and how DEI is being eliminated and the reasons behind it is the states and the politicians that are pushing this forward, there's a through line here.

So for Joe to say that, I think he's definitely, you can see where he stands and what he's about. Now you couple it with him calling up this individual. That's why I said, if you had any question before, he's telling you right now what the issue is. As if Sam's not qualified. Before we move on for this, I want to say something. I want to shout out two people who are very important to me. I would like to shout out by Trachau or to shout out Michael Harry. Two of the smartest, feistyest, most dedicated people that I know.

You guys, Michael Heriot is a goddamn treasure. Baitracial is the maven of books. Okay? She is, I don't know, man. The BBI is so cooking. We have started our own BBI. What are you all doing over there? We are litigating cases.

I'm not going to tell you the cases that we litigated, but actually somebody was exonerated. You guys think the BBI is just, out to get people. Somebody was exonerated by the BBI. We looked into it. Who was exonerated? Can't talk about it. Guys, we'll bring Michael home, we'll bring by Tracy on home to talk about them. Like somebody was exonerated. I'll tell you, I'll tell you who was exonerated. I'll tell you who was exonerated. Terry Cruz's wife. Drake? No, Terry Cruz's wife was exonerated by the BBI. He was exonerated. It's exonerated. Based on his recent interview?

His recent interview, there was there was, there was a case file open. there was, we talked about it. I'm just saying, you know, there was an exoneration. There was an exoneration by the BBI. It was a case file open. There was an investigation. And it turns out that all good. All good.

So what does that mean? Now she is exonerated. Does that mean that you're, you're okay with her saying biracial? Are you saying she's black? What are we doing here? When you say exonerated, what does that actually mean? Is that mean you're going to leave her alone? That's what I feel like it means.

That's basically what it means. That means that's, hey, everything checks out. The BBI opened the case file and we went through it. And look, I'm telling you guys, the people here in the BBI, we only want the best culturally. The people in the BBI are the best, smartest people. Listen to everything that Tracy is doing, the Stacks podcast. Stacks, stacks, stacks, stacks, stacks, stacks, stacks.

Stacks, nigger. Go listen to it. It's about books. Stacks, stacks, Stacks. Michael Harriet. Where's Michael's book? I got it around here. It's fucking great. Stacks. Michael here. Go listen and read people. Shit.

Now, look, we have to move on. We'll talk about it before we go. Before we get to Lainey. All right, so Karuchi train. Carucci. A friend of mine couldn't say her name. He called her karaoke. I'm letting you know that that's not what you say her name.

Wow. Wow. This, give you guys a little something here. Karuchi has started her only fans, but it's an only feat. And it was a lot of responsiveness. She's 35 years old. She shared a link to her only fans, which is simply titled Karushi's Feet. And that was along with the preview of what subscribers can expect over there on the

feet only fans. A lot of people have feet only fans, only feet. People responded. They responded and some of them were none to please. She then responded to them and she said LOL and all the comments regarding OF, I'm not going broke. Just a smart play. Foot fetish is the number one fetish in the world.

There's nothing sexual that will be on my page. It's actually not true. It's literally feet. And if people are willing to pay, then what's the problem. Why do you say that's not true? Because the feet are sexual. Gotcha.

You know what I mean? So, I mean, it's, I mean, it's a sex, it's a, it's a fetish. People like feet. People, it's a, she might not feel like she might not be exposing what she feels any nudity. No butts, no boobs, vagina, anything like that. But, yeah, see, you like, yeah, you're like, yeah. you're thinking back on it. But vagina.

Yes, you are. You like them. You like you. But you see, she might not be exposing any vagina. All right. See, you like it.

You like you think it's funny. So, but people responded. They were being me and the Karucci because she's putting her feet on there because she's selling feet to the feet lovers. What do you think, Rachel?

I don't have a problem. with this at all. Okay? This is how she wants to express herself. She's able to make money. If you got a problem with it, don't subscribe.

How much is she charging? I don't know. I thought it was like 25. I don't want to say if that's wrong. 25. As you can you check that for me? I could have sworn it was up there. I could have swore it was up there.

But listen, if you got a problem with it, all you got to do is ignore it. I don't understand why people are all up and arms. And even if Karuchi didn't want to do the feet and wanted to show her body, what is the problem? This is how she wants to express herself. People get too worked up over things that don't affect them or that don't matter to them. And she even goes on to say that she's doing this because it's an additional income and it helps her. I think she said something like pay other people

or something like that. She's got a whole team of support. I'm paraphrasing here. So even her motives for doing. It's like, who cares? Let her do her feet picks. Why are people bothered by that? I mean, that's not a bad idea. Let me ask you a question. Rachel, I'm, see,

this is why it's good that nobody ever would want to see me. Oh, Rachel's showing feet. Oh! Rachel is on what? What is going on? Rachel is on racial podcast

showing feet. What? Don't give it away from free, Rach. Oh! Oh! Don't give it away for free! You don't give it away for free, Rach. If you want to see more,

if you want to see more, let's start something else don't know. I got to be honest with you. See, this is the thing. If I could make money showing my feet, I'll show my feet. Hold on. Oh. Not bad.

I thought. All right. Not as bad as I thought. If I can make money showing my feet, feet would be all over the place, man. It will be feeded up. Currush, do you? Fuck these niggas.

Like, you want to show some feet for 25 a month? It's going to be people that, I want to see the pictures. But does she, what kind of, what kind of pictures that she has? I've seen it. I know a girl who started an only, a girl who started only fans with her feet and she would do like

she would like put her feet in like a heart in a heart shape like you know you dip it in some water yeah she was ahead of the curve she would start this year

look at that's high quality feet right there you see like that's all feet's got a little jewelry feet's got a little jewelry feet's got a little sand

on them you know what I She's making bank. She is. She probably is. She probably is going to make bank. I mean, she probably is going to make some money. Giving her more attention.

Yeah. Somebody said, somebody said, ma'am, we want ass. Everybody's so judgmental. Karucci,

you're supported. You're supported. Show your goddamn feet. Okay? Show your goddamn feet. Everybody out there, do you, man. Y'all,

shut the fuck up. It's the only fans, connotation. If she was on her Instagram and she was showing feet, I don't think anybody would have an issue with it. Only fans has a negative connotation. And that's really the issue. Yeah. All right. Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimphia. Gusealcumab.

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Made to keep up with whatever comes next. New sweet green wraps hit different. Order now at order. Dot sweetgreen.com. Look, it's time for us to talk to Lainey Smith, who is the CEO and founder of actively black. All right? Actively Black.

We're going to talk about his journey to being an entrepreneur, the brand itself, And a recent, I wouldn't say controversial, discussion around a sweatshirt line, around a line that Lainey had that called black women superheroes. Is that appropriate to do to call black ladies superheroes? We'll talk to Lainty about it and see where we can get black men, black women, not exactly gender wars, but definitely a gender conversation. Right on the side of this break. All right, guys, look, we have somebody on the podcast right now that I've been wanting to have on for a while. His name is Lainty Smith.

He is the head black man in charge over there at actively black. Now, you guys see me wear the actively black stuff all the time. I told you before. I think it is the best stuff you can put on your body. Looks the best, feels the best. I wear it pretty much every day. Everyone knows this. Well, talk to Lainey a little bit about actively black.

What does sportswear brand athletes? leisure brand means and recently about something that he was talking about on social media about an initiative or a line that he had to discontinue after some black ladies raised concerns about it talk a little bit about how we talk and frame conversations around our system so landy thank you for joining us today on higher learning how you doing today brother man i'm i'm overwhelmed but blessed man so thank you and Rachel for having me, man. I'm excited to get a chance

I had this dialogue with y'all. So Rachel has been looking to get some actively black stuff for a long time later. She's trying to get it. Okay. Sorry, my sound went out for a second. No, no, no, no. I ordered some today.

Oh, wow. I ordered that sweatshirt that you're wearing right now in gray. Matching joggers and the biker shorts. Oh. Biker shorts. Man, thank you. That's right.

That's right. So, Lainty, before we get into the Black one or superhero's line that you have, why don't you tell us a little bit about what actively black is, why we all love it so much, and take us through the beginnings of the brain. Yeah, man, it's multi-layered, man, but I'll try to keep the long thing short, man. Black is a premium athleticwear brand that was built with the sole purpose of uplifting and reinvesting back into the black community.

I'm a former professional athlete in 2009 and signed with the Sacramento Kings, and unfortunately, 33 days after signing my first NBA contract, had a knee injury that ended my career. Part of my transition into life after basketball, man, the first brand that I launched back in 2010 was active, faith, which was a faith-based sports apparel brand. But fast forward,

2018, the movie Black Panther came out and just goes to show you the power representation. That was my first time really, man, speaking of superheroes, seeing a superhero on the screen that looked like me, right, whose skin was like mine, whose hair was like mine. And obviously I'm a grown man seeing that movie, but it inspired me. Like I felt since it walking out of that. movie. And when I saw

the diaspora come together in a certain way around that movie that I had never seen before in my lifetime, the thought came to my mind. Man, I want to create a brand that makes my people feel the same way I felt walking out of Black Panther. And put the idea on the shelf, moved to Los Angeles six months before the pandemic hit. The city shuts down. We on lockdown.

And I remember telling myself, I'm not going to let this time pass without burgeoning something new. I didn't know what that's something new was going to be yet. And then we all experienced 2020 from our different perspectives, the murder of George Floyd, Brianna Taylor, etc. And I started to see all these corporations and brands make all these performative declarations about what they was going to do for the black community.

You know what I'm saying? And this is not to throw shots at them, but all of those brands, it felt very performative. It felt like it was now market and strategy because take the pandemic part away from 2020, the events of 2020 were not new to black people. This has been happening for decades and centuries, and none of you brands were saying any of it, you know what?

I looked at it like, you know what? It's time for us to stop asking for a seat at that table and to build our own table. That was the spirit that I had behind creating actively black because I looked at some of these brands, these multi-billion-dollar brands who have profited off of black culture, black talent, black consumerism, and hadn't adequately given back to the black community. And so like I said, it was like, let's stop asking for a seat at the table.

Let's build our own table. And then we can feed our people however we we deemed fit. So that was the energy behind it, man. I announced it on June 10th, 2020, put my head down and launched actively black out of my apartment on Black Friday, 2020, November 27th. And, um, The tribe, as I call them, I don't call them customers. The tribe has little reported from day one. The inventory I thought was going to last me the first three months business sold out in the first three weeks. And I've been playing catch up ever since. I apologize to those who are still waiting on certain things to be restocked.

We're trying to catch up to the demand. I don't like to talk numbers, but I understand why numbers are used to measure growth and success. first year did 2.1 million in revenue. The second year, we did 5.3 million. And last year was our third year, we did $8 million. So 258 in a span of 38 months. And so we are one of the fastest growing at Leisure brands in the country.

Not black on one of the fastest growing at Leisure brands in the country. Wow. And the heart behind what we do has been evident from day one. You know, the year that we did $5 million in revenue, we donated $500,000 back to the black community. That's 10%. That's 10%.

All of those companies who were pledging all of that money, when you actually break down what they were pledging, it gets down to being less than 1% of their actual revenue. You know what I'm saying? So we're truly about what we're saying we're about. And one of the things that you share with me, Van, is you love the quality. It's probably the best compliment that I get outside of seeing black people wear something with such pride. You know, I see black people put on actively black and they look like they got vibranium running through.

You know what I'm saying? The quality was that was so important to me because, unfortunately, the stereotype is black-owned means you got to sacrifice part. Black-owned means not going to be the best quality. And I wanted us to wear something that felt like your Nike, that felt like your Jordan, that felt like your Lulu Lemon, and it was black on. And it's giving back to the black community. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah. That was very important to me. Yeah. Sorry. Oh, no. No, no, please. Listen, if I had those kind of numbers, I would be wearing a sweatshirt that had them listed on it. Okay?

This is why certain people get the blessing of some don't. Listen, I imagine that you starting this business when you did with the odds being against you for a variety of reasons. This is more a question for young entrepreneurs, but specifically young black entrepreneurs. I'm sure a lot of people told you, oh, this is an oversaturated market. This isn't the right overly saturated market. This isn't the right time to launch something like this. How did you overcome that and have the confidence to say, like, I believe in what I'm doing? You know, if for the young entrepreneurs that are listening to this, what would be your advice or just kind of how you navigated that?

Yeah, I think first and foremost, when you're starting on that entrepreneurial journey to build something, I believe, everybody may not agree with this. I believe it has to be something that is purposeful and mean something and you're passionate about it. because if I was just looking to get into this to start another apparel brand to make some money, then yes, all of those things would seem very daunting to me. There's a million apparel brands. The lifeline of them is not long. Most of them fail within 24 months. All of the reasons why it shouldn't work, right?

But this was something that wasn't even about how much money I could make out of this. I felt like it was purpose driven. It was mission driven. And I think you have to have that undeniable belief in whatever God has put in you, whatever dream that is, whatever that is, you have to have this unshakable faith and belief in that thing because everybody's not going to see it in the beginning. And they're not supposed to. So I had black people telling me, don't name the company actively black because it won't be

successful. You're going to limit who you can sell, all that kind of stuff. I'm talking about black executive ex-Nike telling me, man, if you name I'm going to be successful. You know, so I just believe so much not only in the vision that I was blessed with, but I also believed it was, it's,

if 2020 did one thing, I do believe that there was sort of a global awakening a little bit amongst the diaspora on, hey man, it is, It's past time for us to actually start owning more of our own, supporting more of our own. And yeah, so I didn't let any of that deter me. Also, this will be a reoccurring theme on this episode, I guess. But my mother, who is a superhero to me, instilled something in me early on that I don't have any limits to my dreams.

when I say I had to drink to make it to the NBA since I was four or five years old, you got to understand there's only 450 jobs in the NBA. And there's millions of kids that want to get to the NBA. You're literally talking lottery ticket chances. So this isn't my first time beating the odds or believing in something. Yeah. Isn't, you know, that you don't have great, great chances on being successful in. Yeah, I don't have any limits to the dream that God gives me. Yeah, I had the same dream about the NBA.

I would have made it, but you know, politics. Look, here's the situation. Now, we're talking about Actively Black. We're here with Lane Smith, founder, CEO of Actively Black. So I saw, Brandon, I'm very little too. I saw that you were on your Instagram just recently. And you were talking about a specific line of Actively Black apparel that you were going to have to discontinue

and you're wearing one of these sweatshirts right now. And it's a line that celebrates black women, and it says black women are superheroes. You made a video and an apology to black women that wasn't without some controversy in terms of the conversation, the sweatshirt itself. You heard from black women that said they didn't appreciate being called superheroes. So you discontinued or are discontinuing the line.

Why don't you tell us a little bit about that? And now I want to have a conversation about how we show up, how we talk, how we have dialogue with black women around the expectations that they have of how they're going to be identified and celebrated within our own culture and community. So why don't you tell us a little bit about what happened? Yeah, so this collection, the Black Woman and Superheroes collection, and one of the reasons I was so shocked that some of the feedback this time is this is actually our third time restock in this collection.

This collection has sold out multiple times. I think 2020 was the first year that I actually introduced this collection. And I don't know, maybe the brand awareness is at a different level now, and that's why. You guys are growing. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But it's March. It's Women's Month.

At Actively Black, we have rebranded Women's Month to be Black Women's Month. So we focus entirely on how do we continue to uplift Black women, how do we give back to Black women-led organizations. And we're focusing our product line for March on this collection. Black women are superheroes. Drop the restock and started getting the deal. and the emails and the messages. And there were black women reaching out to me,

many of whom were upset. And they were saying, you are dehumanizing us. You are furthering the disrespect towards black women. I'm being nice on some of this on what was being said. But that was the gist was that me calling black women supermen, superheroes was somehow what was taking away their humanity and contributing to some of the issues that black women face, which is a reality. And the reoccurring theme was that we're tired. We don't want to be superheroes. We are not superheroes. Stop calling us that you are

contributing to our detriment. And, you know, this brand, is something that I'm building for my people, right? And so I've had a lot of people over the last couple days hit me like, yo, ignore what people say, just do whatever you want to do. Like, this is your brand. I'm like, nah, this is something I'm building for the people. So by, I feel obligated to listen to the people.

You know what I'm saying? And so if there are, even if it's a minority, if there are black women who feel like they are being damaged or hurt or angered by this, but let me hear that. then, all right, let me take this down. So what I told them was, we'll discontinue it. The existing inventory will still be there for anybody who still wants to buy it, but once it's done, we just, we just won't bring it back. And the conversations following that have been shocking. It's shocking to me. Yeah. Yeah. As I said earlier, I just purchased. So I think that

lets you know where I stand on the line, the collection. I absolutely understand how black women feel a certain way about it. I wish you wouldn't have discontinued the collection. What I wish is when I saw your video, I thought, huh, if I felt one way, hearing your explanation and your intention behind it, or just knowing what actively black represents, then I understand the bigger meaning of it. For me, we're constantly as black women calling on black men to see us, to respect us, to hold us in high regard. And when I looked at the collection, I thought, to me, that's what is being done. I guess my first question in regards to this is, when these women were in your DMs and emailing you and messaging you,

Was there anybody that offered some sort of solution rather than just saying, hey, I don't like this. This is how it offends me. Was there any type of solution? Because I feel like I have one in regards to how we can make this better. If your intention is something that's good about uplifting black women and black women want to be seen more than just these an invincible superhero, then what's the solution? How do we come together and create something that honors both of our wishes? Because at the end of the day, want the same thing. Yeah. There weren't many solutions offered. There was one conversation that I had where I guess I was further trying to explain my intent

or explain the messaging behind it. And I was saying that in this society for as long as we can remember, black women have been told that they are less than. Black women have been told that they're not good enough. they've been, you know, you know, that you're, that you're not desirable, that you're not smart enough, that you're not, all of these things that you're, that you're not. And my intent was to highlight how extraordinary you are. You know what I mean? Like, like, let's just, let's just keep it 100, man. Black women are the most intelligent, the most resourceful, the most, most creative, all of these different things. And so I was trying to highlight. how extraordinary black women are. And her response was, well, you should have just made a shirt that said black women are extraordinary. And I sat with that suggesting for a minute because it almost seems as if, okay, so are we saying that creatively,

we have to speak literal, like literal on this? because obviously when I say black women are superheroes, it's not a literal statement. You know, I saw my mother do some incredible things and she is a superhero to me, but I don't expect my mother to be able to jump off the building and fly, right? She's not a literal superhero, but figuratively, she's a superhero to me.

So are you telling me that we just have to be literal with this? That's one. And if we are talking about being literal, I have yet to see a superhero film where a superhero was not tired, getting beat up, based on Ironman and Tachala, even killed, right? So it's not even, I'm not even saying that you are invincible. Invincible, right? I'm not saying that you don't feel pain. I'm not saying that you are not exhausted. in my opinion, black people are our superheroes, right? And I'm going to come full circle with this,

but I had a chance to visit Ghana a year ago, and I went to visit the slave dungeons, right? And I remember walking through what they called the point of no return, the door no return. All our ancestors went through this door, and they never came back. And I thought about symbolically what that represented the fact that I came back, right?

So that means if I trace back in my lineage, somebody in my bloodline had to survive Jim Crowe, 300 years of slavery, the transatlantic slave trade, the Middle Passage, like millions of Africans die, not even getting over here. Somebody in my lineage survived all of that. For me to be here to be able to come back, right?

there's something in black people's DNA that I believe it's our vibranium. There's something in us that I believe makes us superheroes. This is Women's Month, and I'm trying to highlight black women. So that's why I specifically am saying

black women are superheroes. I get, you mentioned intent, right? I believe intent matters. I believe in the power of words. I believe in affirmations. I believe in speaking things into existence, all those things. But I believe intent matters. If your significant other calls you, baby, hey, baby, that feels good, right?

You go out and a random guy walks up to you and cause you baby. The same word, you're going to feel different about being called that word based on who's saying it because of the intent, right? So to your point, if you see this is a black, man who is not just speaking it, but his actions are being put behind this, right? Thousands and thousands of dollars have been donated to Black Mamas Matter, an organization that specifically is fighting to help improve the maternal mortality rates of black women. By the way, black women die three times are three times more likely to die in childbirth than white women. This organization is fighting that.

Eugima, an organization that is specific to black women who are victims, of domestic violence, that's where this money goes. Black girls code that gives black girls exposure to coding at an early age. That's where this money goes to. Compton Girls Club, that's where this money goes to. So if intent matters and you see what my intent is, that's the part that was confusing me of the anger that was coming my way, the vitriol that was coming my way.

Like, it, but see, so let me say, let me say something here. I think that's what the conversation is. And I think that's where actively black and people like you and myself and Rachel have the unique opportunity to flesh the conversation out. The conversation is all about intent. You know what your intent is. I know what your intent is. I know you. I know what the brand is stood for.

the actively black the brand is one of the purest celebrations of what and who we are and it celebrates what and who we are not just by the messages but also by the quality and by the community that you guys have fostered over there the intent is where the glitch happens in this conversation because we and when I say we I mean specifically black men are intent to a lot of sisters. I mean, you have talked about this. Our intent to a lot of sisters is obfuscated by things. They can't feel the intent. I told you before, I've been on here sometimes thinking I'm helping,

trying to help, trying to say and do the right thing, but the trust isn't there. And I'll end up running a file either from what I don't know, but what someone else thinks I should have learned. And that's what we got to repair because you know what you're doing, right? You know what you're doing.

You know what you're trying to do. You know both an execution and message what it is that you're doing. All the way down to pouring back and investing into black women. They are saying we're just tired of people thinking that we're indestructible. Like, Mama got it or Mama, mama going to make a, like, like, they are into their soft life air. So, so, so, and this is the only thing I'm saying. I'm saying that your best laid plans, my best laid plans,

the rest of these brothers, like our best laid plans, we're, we're running up against what I feel like is just a lack of cultural trust, a lack of, hey, you got it, a lack of if, like, the whole nine, right? And it's not, none of this is a monel. Right. Me and you talked, and I'm going to be honest with you guys. I called like, and I was frustrated. Like I was, and we talked like we had beers over the phone. We talked and we had beers over the phone. But I think, I mean, I think the conversation, you talked about having these conversations and we're going to have these conversations that we have to discuss is how do we show up in a way that says, Hey, I'm here for you.

I'm celebrating you. I want you to feel respected and powerful. And also, last thing I'll say is we're men. So when we think of what we want to be, we want to be superheroes. Like, we want to be indestructible. We want to be powerful. We want to be able to lift it. We want to be able to carry it.

We want to be able to run the fastest. like you made it to the NBA. All of those guys looked like superheroes to me. I've seen the dude dunk on everybody from the Kings and everybody on the bench got up. This nigger's head was on top of the backboard. I'm like, that's impossible. We want to be superheroes.

And so when we're complimenting black women and we're talking about the black women that we've seen, like it does sometimes. I don't want to upset any of the black ladies that are watching this, But it does sometimes seem like my mama had this weird, unexplainable power to make me feel like everything was going to be okay. It sometimes made my grandmother, when I'm in their house, it sometimes feel like this thing comes over me. And I'm like, yeah, man, life is all right. It feels magical.

It feels ethereal. And maybe I'm stupid. It feels otherworldly. It feels powered by something that's, you know, it feels magical. bigger than us. And so I'm like, oh, these people are, like, these people are metahuman. They're metahuman in the way that they love. They're metahuman. But, you know, it, and so when I, when I confront that, I understand what you're talking about. So I think what we have to talk about is your intent, my intent, other black men's intent, and how that meets the experience that

black women feel and how they relate to us. Yeah. And that's the conversation. You know, it goes back to that quote about black women being the most disrespected person in society. It's more than just the relationship. It's also how we're viewed in so many other circles and how people look at us. And that's combined with it.

You know, the last thing I'll say, because I was going to say this to resolve back to the first question that I ask you, I think, I hate that you disconnect. I discontinued this line. I said that from the beginning. What I would love to see happen, and this is why I asked if someone gave you some sort of resolution within those messages, is you sit down with black women.

And together, you guys create something that it's not going to please everybody, but at the end of the day, you'll be able to say, hey, I heard you, I consulted with black women, and together this is what we're bringing to the table to honor, to reflect my intention and also what they want. And I received that. I receive that. I will say that I'm a minority in my company.

I'm not saying that for sympathy. What I'm saying that is I ran this by multiple black women who loved it, who felt empowered, who felt like, you know what, thank you for seeing me. Thank you for understanding that just me existing, there are certain things I have to survive it and live with and go through. Thank you for seeing me. You know, I really created this as a tribute to my mother. You know what I mean? That was the original thing, you know, and designers do that all the time.

You take inspiration from things in your personal life. This was inspired by my mother. I do want to touch on a couple of things you said. I watched my mother be tired, right? I watched my mother be exhausted, right? And here's something that I learned a little later in life because I grew up hating my father. I grew up hating my father. I saw what my mom had to go through.

I grew up hating my father. Then as an adult, I had a conversation with my father, and he apologized for some things in my childhood. And then I got to learn his story, right? And it rocked my whole world, and it changed my perspective on a lot of things, right? So black boy who grew up in poverty in the projects, whose own father, right,

couldn't be there for him emotionally the way he needed to be. And then finding about his story, the shit that he went through just going to his job every day having to deal with these white folks, what they were doing to him. He had to internalize that to survive it, right? But him internalized that when he

comes home, he's not able to tear those walls down as easily to then show that love to his children and his wife the way they should be. So I learned some of the trauma that my father experienced growing up. Then I learned that, you know, he went, He served in the Navy and the military. And I learned about some of the traumas that he experienced from the racism in the military, right?

That really traumatized him. And then he got home from serving his country and was still treated like a second-class citizen by this country, right? And when I was listening to him, I realized, yo, this is somebody who was tired, right? He was tired. But there was nowhere for this black man to go. We talk about mental health a lot right now. my father's generation, the generation before that, those black men had no outlet for anything to express how they felt their hurts, their, what was damaging them. There was nowhere for them to go with that. So they had to hold all that in. And we know how damaging that can be. So then when the government, the CIA literally is pumping crack cocaine into black communities, my father ends up being one of those who succumbed to the crack epidemic, right? Which led to a lot of.

self-medicating. Yes. That was his escape from this life that he did not get any rest from. And the reason why I feel like it's important for me to say this is because his damage damaged my mother, right? And I hated him for it. But then when I found out all the things that he went through and there was nowhere for him to go to rest. There was nowhere for him that we had a black men's mental health event last year. SoFi Stadium. We had 300 black men from Englewood on the field doing sound bath, yoga, meditation. One of the most powerful things that I've seen in my life. All 300 of these black men were Ryan. Nobody had ever asked them, how are you doing? How are you feeling? How are you holding this weight of this world on your shoulders where you have to go out in this world every

every day that hates you, that fears you, that wants to destroy you. How are you dealing with that? Nobody asked them these questions. We gave them note cards and said anonymously, write down how you're feeling, right down what you're struggling with. To a man, all of them said, man, even I love my wife, but I feel like I'm only as valuable as the money I can provide. If I'm not doing this, if I'm not doing this, that I'm not even valued as a man. And there's no way. for me to go with that. I'm not saying this for there to be a oppression Olympics who's who had it worse. The reason why I bring this up is not to deflect from what black women are going through. I said this in a conversation I was having some on social media. It's to illustrate the systems

that exist and the people behind the systems that exist that have traumatized us. That's our enemy. I am not so enemy. I am not so enemy. I am not so me. We are tired from different things, but I guarantee you, black men are exhausted too. We don't have an outlet to express our exhaustion. Nobody cares if a black man says he's tired. Well, you're a man. Suck it up. You a boy, you can't cry. You're supposed to be a man. Suck it up. And the interesting thing that I found is when I talk to black women who have sons, they understand it when their children because almost every black mother I know has that talk. My mother had that with me. She knew. She told me at early age, you're not going to be able to be a little boy for too long.

You've got to understand. You've got two strikes against you. You're a black man. When you walk out into this world, they want to kill you. So we're young having to figure out, okay, can I wear my hood? Or, you know what I'm saying? Like, and my mother was the one who told me that. So if so many black women can see that, their sons are getting ready to grow out into a world that hates them, what do you think changes from when that boy is 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, that world didn't change? That world didn't change. That world still hates him. That world still wants to see him die. And we do have to deal with that, even though maybe we don't get a chance to verbalize

in that way. So what I'm saying is, you know, if I'm tired and you're tired, going back to intent, if we both starving and I find a piece of fruit and I decide, you know what, I'm going to share this with you. You know I really love you because I'm starving too. And I would love to eat this whole fruit by myself because I'm starving. But I see my sister starving too. So you know what? Queen, let me give you some of this food because I know you're starving too.

So if you know that in my starvation, I still want to try to feed you, you know what's coming from love. Word. Yeah. I feel you. We're going to leave it right there, brother. That's powerful, man. That's powerful, Lane. Tell them what they can go to get.

them actively black gear and tell them about everything that you got going on, just real quick. We got another interview, but tell what's up. Activelyblack.com. Follow us on actively black. We are trying to build something that is actually owned by us. I know you said real quick, I just have to say this. A black woman told me, you must think you Kanye, you ain't Kanye.

If you were Kanye, maybe I would listen to you. I saved it when she said that. And it boggled my mind. When the last time you seen Kanye with a black woman? When last time you seen Kanye with a black woman? When is the last time? That's true. Why didn't you trying to make the vultures too?

Sorry. No, no, no. I'm just saying like, okay. Activelyblack.com. I love you. I love you. I'm only here because a black woman not only gave me life, but gave me the license to dream with no limits to my dream.

I love black women. If nothing else, I hope you understand that intent. Actively Black.com. Brother, appreciate you. You love you so much. I'll jump on with you after this, man. I appreciate that.

Lany Smith, guys. Thank you for joining us today on Hireland. Thank you. Thank you, Lainey. All right. Deep, deep combo, you know, it's a cowboy situation. What do you think about Lainey?

It's so hard to have that. It's so hard to have that. Well, I like Lainey and follow Lainty as support what he's doing with actively black. I, okay, it's time to go. really filling themselves, can't look at himself too long without filling himself with the scalpelion. I will say that that conversation is so hard to have on a podcast. It's hard to have on a panel we did with higher learning. It's just so complex. There's only, you know,

it's tough. But I'm glad we had it because, you know, it's a conversation we're all having on and off mic. All right. Listen, I'm serious about these crash out videos. Y'all go online and look at, for examples of people that are crashing out. I want to know what y'all crashing out about. Every Friday, going to be Crash Out Friday. Send us videos of you crashing out. Just get it off your chest, crashing out. Fuck it.

Crash out. We'll play the videos. And then the person that crashes out the best, maybe you'll come hang out with us and pod on higher learning or something like that. I want to see some legendary crash outs that have happened recently. I want to see y'all crash out. I'll crash out too. See if y'all can crash out to me.

You do it every episode. That's not true. Like unnecessary negative statement. Last thing I'll say before I go about this love is blind thing. Why are people so into the show? What is the show? What? You've been holding on to this?

I don't know what love is blind is. Like everybody talks about it. Jamel. Nina, fucking everybody's talking about love is blind. It's picked, so it's on in six seasons.

I did not watch it when it first came out. It was all the rage when it came out because it really was, you know, you're talking to somebody behind, but you're in these pods.

You can't see them. You're talking to them through a wall. You fall in love with them probably in like two weeks. And then you, and so it's just this really interesting concept. So if you fall in love with someone from their personality

and then you see them for the first time. So it's like you have to fall in love all over again. It's like you start. start the relationship over. Sometimes people's expectations aren't met. That's when you find out as love really blind. It's interesting too because once they meet,

then they go on vacation with the other couples. So then you start to see people you didn't pit because you get to date everybody. It's speed dating. You start to see, oh, that's who I almost was proposed to. That's who I did, who I got in an argument with. That causes drama. And also going back, they're all from the same city for the most part.

So it's based in a city. So that's cool too. So then they go back to their city and they live together. And all of this happens in a month. And then they decide if they want to get married. Yeah. Yeah. That's shorter than The Bachelor.

But you get more time and it's more realistic. You see each other go to work. You meet each other's family. You're living together. You take them back to your, they live in a neutral location. But then you can go back to each other's places. So it's an interesting concept. And the success rate is much better than that.

the Bachelor, it makes sense. You get more time to get to know these people. But this season, and I've only watched season four and season six, and this season is just really messy. It's so good. Because this guy doesn't want to be with this woman? Well, there's multiple couples, and I don't want to give it away from the people who haven't seen it, but not everybody makes it out to the altar, but the reasons they separate, certain

couples separated are interesting. I think the black couple is the most interesting couple. I think black people are the most entertaining people to watch on TV. And the whole, the navigation of their entire relationship is so deep, even the conversation that his parents have at the end. Like, I haven't really seen stuff like that on reality TV.

Not since back in like the real world days, it was really interesting. All right, we'll talk. I guess we'll do a love is blind situation or something. I don't, I'm not watching. I'd love. I would love. love to hear your take on Clay.

Clay. That's a black man. It's a black man. And I just, I don't want to say, I don't want to get too much, but I would love to hear how you interpret him. Clay. Okay. How you observe him. I don't want to say interpret.

Maybe I'm about watch. You ever see Beetlejuice before we got to go? You ever see Beal Juice? Beal Juice said something. Only the same where they dance around the table. So Beal Juice said something. I was watching Beal Juice this past weekend. Um, Beal Juice said something or this past,

a couple of days ago. Beal juice said something on there and he sang it. Beal juice is a freak. Bill Juice said, I'll eat anything you want me to eat. I'll swallow anything you want me to swallow. Come on down now.

Chew on the dog. Like he says that. He says, I'll eat anything you want me to eat. I'll swallow anything you want me to swallow. Beetle juice. God damn, nigga Beetle juice is down. Okay, bye. Look, you guys have seen that.

All right, we got to go. We got to go. We got to go. Taking thinking caps off. Do not stop learning. I am fans. Lathen, Jr. I'm Rachel and Lindsay.

Bye, guys.