Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Biden and the Blacks, Plus a Segment on “Sassy”

Episode Date: November 7, 2023

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay discuss claims that Black voters aren’t enthusiastically in support of Joe Biden (8:34), and the new Speaker of the House using a porn accountability program with his teen son (30:43). Plus, rapper Dee-1 calls out Meek Mill and Rick Ross for contradictory lyrics (34:45), the word “sassy” has social media abuzz (51:58), and a pastor takes his own life after being outed (1:11:27). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo-Yo-Yo thought warriors, BravoCon. Can we introduce ourselves? It's me, Van Lathan. It's me, Rachel Lindsay. Now, BravoCon. Talk about it. I was there for three days in Vegas, longer than I like to be. It was so much fun.

So much fun. I mean, if you're a fan of Bravo TV, all the shows, everyone's there. They're doing panels. They're doing exclusive premieres. They're giving you exclusive, not premieres. but where they're letting you know when shows premiere. They're giving you exclusive clips, exclusive trailers. They have a bazaar where you can buy all the products.

It's called Bravo Bazaar where you can buy all the products that the Bravo Lebrities sell. Bravo Lebrities? That's what they're called. So not celebrities. Bravo Lebrities? Okay. And I moderated three panels. Nice.

Yes. Where were the panels? I had Ask Andy. So it was me and Andy Cohen. I saw that. I saw you and him. hanging out. And then I had the Potomac reunion, which got spicy. Yeah. I didn't see it last night. I had to moderate. I had to moderate. Like, I mean, they don't get along right now. There's a lot of

tension on the panels. Why? I had to even say, like, you got to be quiet. You got to let her answer this question. Hey, we're not going to do that. I had a headache after. It was a lot. And then I had a panel called Day 1 Divas where it was housewives who've been with their franchises from day one and are still around. Who are those housewives? Kyle Richards from Beverly Hills. Still kicking. Heather Gay from Salt Lake City. Don't know who that is.

Vicki Gunvelson, the OG of the OC. Never heard of them. Okay. Well, she was the first season, first city ever because OC's the first city. Yeah. Robin Dixon Okay

Giselle Bryant Nice And Teresa Judeyce So there's no one from Atlanta That's still on there From the beginning Atlanta No one cares about Atlanta anymore

Maybe Chirre Well yeah Shirene's a A day one They don't care I did say During Ascandy That I think they need to

Like revamp it Revamp it Yeah Doesn't mean Everybody's got to go But they got to shake it up New York did that and it's been wildly successful.

Who would they put on there in Atlanta now if they revamped it? Who would you put on there? Well, I don't know. It's got to be people who live in Atlanta. I think what's hard is that in Atlanta, you have a lot of people who desire to be housewives. And so it's like, are you being a caricature of a housewife, or are you going to bring yourself to the show?

And I think that's what they're struggling with because it started in 2008, 2006, 2008, housewives? You look like you were so in your element when you were talking about that. Like you love the housewives and everything. I do. And I have a podcast. Morally corrupt. Episodes drop every Friday.

You're on the ringer. MC. You love it. MC is the place to be. Nah, it's not. Potomac premiere last night. Potomac premiere. It was good.

They gave us a little bit more than an hour. I was watching Robin Hood, Prince of Peace. And how many times have you seen that? A lot. Yeah, come on. But I need to get up on Potomac. But nobody. Is that, are you doing that for rewatchables?

Is that why you're watching? But nobody, no one. No one won. I feel like when I started talking about my love of Potomac, no one, like, supported. No one agreed. I did. I was thrilled.

When I talked about the characters that I like on the show, everybody was like you like the wrong people. Well, they didn't feel like you were well-versed enough to give a knowledgeable ranking. Because of what? because you don't watch it. Well, from what I've watched, I talked about what I liked.

Who was your number one? It's Giselle, right? It was Giselle, probably Giselle. It's like, Giselle, Robin. I like, what's the one with, I like Candace. Okay, I like, they do not get along.

Gisle and Candace don't get along. Nah, man. But it's good that you like Giselle because they have a podcast and they like to do a little stuff and something. You can talk about your Potomac Um, your love for Potomac.

I'm shocked you knew what premiered last night. The Calico was all over. Okay. I turn Calico on to Potomac. I got to tell you something, man. Is Juan Dixon going to be featured prominently on this one? I think he has to be. They have to leave Juan Dixon alone.

Juan Dixon's doing a lot, allegedly. Allegedly, man. Hold on. I won't blow my nose into the microphone right now. Uh-uh. Are you sick? No, I'm not sick. Something happened this morning to where my nose is all irritated.

Hold on like this. Okay. Oh, yeah. And if I did that, what you would say to me is, did you get tested? Did I get tested? That's what you would say to me. I've been tested before. I've been tested for all kinds of tests.

Okay. That would be a no. What'd you do this weekend? Hung out. Saturday watched yet another LSU Alabama loss. Unfortunately. Yeah, that game was on everywhere in Vegas. And then Sunday,

the Midnight Boys came over to the apartment. Watch a little football. Football. Kai came over. Kai from here in the Ringer brought his sister and his girlfriend over. Is he a midnight boy? No, he's not a midnight boy. Okay.

He looks like logic. He's a producer here at the Ringer. Is he a producer? What's, what is, Kai's a producer? Kai's a producer. Kai's great. I like Kai. Kai was over.

Charles was over. Jomey was over. We played Spider-Man in the video. game. Where was Kalika? At the house hanging out with us. I'm going to start telling Kalika, just you have an open invitation when the midnight boys come over come to my house. You

I've hung out with the midnight boys though and it is a lot of fun. I do have fun. She's, she is like we're fun and we get it going. We were watching nerd stuff. We played moral combat. That's my idea. You know, Katie, my friend Katie went out with the Midnight Boys. They did. They went to a Halloween

part of fun time. The Midnight boys are fun. I know they're fun. Katie went to high school with Charles. They went to the same high school. Asbury Park or whatever. Also, I just give myself a break from watching all the mess that's going on on the internet. There's so much mess. Everyone's embroiled in a lot of mess that's happening.

And that's what this podcast is going to reflect today. That's not true. Yeah. This podcast is going to be. We're going to get maybe some mess. But this podcast has got to be an uplifting light to the world. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, I'm not.

against that? No, it seems like you are. No, it's just a lot of shit is going on in the world and sadly we have to talk about it. Rachel, you're a positive person. No. You're not a positive person?

Do you have a positive outlook? I wouldn't describe myself. I strive to be. Stride. But I would not describe myself as an optimist. You're a glass half empty kind of gal. And that glass is of tequila.

I'm not glass half full or empty. It's just like right in the middle. It's just a glass. glass in the middle where the water's in the middle. I'm a realist. Why's it got to be half into half full? It's just a glass of water in it in the middle. That has never fucking made sense. I was trying to find a realist with the glass of water. A glass I have into a half full in the middle. It's just in the middle. Okay. I don't know what the fuck is going on. Can I just also say I flew in straight from Vegas to here. So,

forgive me. Fresh off of Vegas flight. Yeah, it's a long, arduous fight from Vegas. It's not that it's a long flight. 45 minutes in the air. Three days of working. You're doing your thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Some of the time. All right, let's get into it. There's no big deal of the day. It's just a lot of deals. Okay, there's no big deal. There's just a lot of deals that's going on. But we're going to start off. I think in politics,

Joe Biden and the nigger. Is that what we're starting? Why not? Other side is break. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Trimphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Trimphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks.

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Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See terms at vanduil.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash herms. Black people don't like Joe Biden. You don't like Joe Biden. That's not what I didn't ever said that. I like him just fine. That's what, what?

Okay. Roll the tape, Donnie. Roll the tape of what? You've spent the last few episodes coming down on Biden. You don't like Biden. You just like we're like, if it comes down to it, I'll vote for him because I'm not going to vote for anybody else. But like, you don't know what.

like Biden. Just be honest, it's okay, man. You don't like Biden. First of all, you don't like him. It's not that I don't like them because it's not about liking or not liking a particular candidate. That's not what it's about. What is it about? It's about trying to have in context a realistic 360 degree view of what someone represents politically, who they are, and the job that they've done. And sometimes we laid a motion get in the middle of that and I'm trying not to with Joe Biden. What I'm saying is that

if we look at this not just as what we're fearful of winning, if we look at this, and it's hard to do, right? Because the choice is binary. If we look at this as, what does this guy really represent? Who is he?

What is he doing? Then there are criticisms to be made. I agree with you. I don't think it's wrong. to have high Yes, to have high expectations to demand what a politician promised you to expect those things in return.

That's why you voted for them to carry out those things. And if it's not being accomplished, yes, I think we should hold them to a high degree. I agree with that. All that being said, you don't like him. That's weird.

It's not that I don't like him. I'm unenthusiastic about Joe Biden. Yeah, we were in the last election as well. is not a factor in it. Okay. Now, there are some people that have some thoughts about why Joe Biden seems to be losing support amongst Afro-Americans, Afro-Americans. Remember that that was a movement for a second.

One of them is Representative Jasmine Crockett from Texas, who recently went viral doing her thing on the hill. She represents Oak Cliff, Texas. She represents Oak Cliff. She took over for Eddie Bernice Johnson, who had held that seat for, I want to say, 30 plus years. And, yeah, Jasmine Crock is really doing her thing. She's really, she's my district, actually.

She's your district. She's climbing up the ranks here. She's very visible, very, very fiery, a very opinionated young congresswoman, like her a lot. She was on CNN, and she was talking about the fact that some black voters aren't supporting Joe Biden because feelings aren't dictating their reality. Let's see. Give it up to us, Donnie. Here's the deal. Perception is reality. And so when you look at the data that was provided in this poll, it talks about how people feel.

And when people decide whether they're going to the poll or whether they're not going to the poll, it's all about how you feel in that moment. And so while the facts may not align with their feelings, their feelings are dictating their reality. Their reality is that they said that they feel better or they felt better when Trump was in office. But we've been trying to push back. We've got some very popular African-American artists that are out here saying things like, oh, I got checks when Trump was in office. I want those checks again, not understanding that that really came from Congress. So we've got a couple of things, the perception issue.

and then we also have an issue as it relates to civics in this country and people not understanding exactly how any of this works. Look at my congresswoman. You don't agree? I think everything that she says is correct. You don't? I like her. We should talk about some of the numbers.

Some of the numbers. From the polling? Yeah. Particularly amongst black men showing a massive eroding and Biden sport. We talk about this every single time. No, you can pull them up. I don't have them. But I know that.

right now, one poll is that support for Biden amongst black men is, is dwindling, serroting, with 20% of black men now saying that it's a possibility that they won't vote for Joe Biden. They don't like it. 20% that's down. Like, you know, it was already a situation where I think it was like 88% the last time. So he's, that's 8%. And when you start playing with those numbers and support amongst the black community, the margins for victory, particularly in states that were close last time,

they get really precarious. Now, I'll say something else, with everything that's going on in the Middle East right now, there are going to be places like Michigan, which with large Arab-American communities, large Muslim communities, that Joe Biden's going to have to do a lot of work in because a lot of people are really fucking pissed at the way that that's going, at the way the White House has discussed this and the way that they've, I mean, not really seemingly had as much support or the carnage that's going on in Gaza as they should have. And that's going to be something else that they have to deal with. But if we talk specifically about black people and the support of Joe Biden,

there does seem to be something brewing. And it's not just about Biden. It's about black people's relationship with the Democratic Party in and of itself. Well, I think this is where I say I agree with what she's saying about the time that Trump was in office to the time Joe Biden has been in office. if you look at those years. And she says that a lot of black people said they felt better when Trump was in office.

Well, when you look at what was happening in our country and in the world from 2016 to 2020, it's totally different from 2020. One, when Biden came in and beyond, you had Black Lives Matter movement was still going on. There was this huge demand

from the black community. And Joe Biden promised that he was going to act on some of those demands. Voting rights. police reform. Also, he's coming in with COVID. So you had inflation.

You've seen loss of jobs. Economically, people are affected in a completely different way than they were when Trump was in office. And now you have the war. So there's so many things that are, when she talks about perception versus reality, that people felt better back then than they do now. And the thing that I think naturally people do is, well, who's in office? who they'd say, oh, well, he's making decisions. So all of this must be an effect of Biden.

Because when Trump was there, I think that she's basically saying people are looking at it in very simple terms. And I agree with her. The people who are disheartened with the things that Biden is doing or saying they don't feel Biden or even saying, it's not even just disheartened with Biden. It's Trump over Biden.

I felt better with Trump. They're looking at it in a very simple way and they're not looking at the picture as a whole. Do you know what I mean? I do. Look, if you look at it, this has been written about ad nauseum, about the polls that signal that Biden is slipping with black and Hispanic voters as well. Hispanic voters as well.

Look, this is what I'll say. I don't like what she said, obviously. I don't like it. One reason that I don't like it is there's an undercurrent there of they're not smart enough to understand, like what's happening? We've talked about this. What? We talked about this with sexy red.

I don't think she's insinuating they're not smart enough. People just don't, it's exactly what I said with the sexy red argument. We totally disagreed on that. It's not that they're not smart enough. People just don't have the will

to go out and seek that information. So for sexy red to flat out say, well, you know, Trump's getting checks. And what she's saying is, well, that's not, Trump wasn't actually the one doing that. people aren't researching that. And it's not just black people. I'm not going to just say it's the black community.

There are other communities as well. So I won't say that she's just simplified. Like she's not saying they're not smart enough. So my question is this. And it's a very simple question. Are the Democrats going to take ownership or responsibility for anything? Are they going to take ownership or responsibility for their successes? Are they going to take ownership and responsibility for their failures?

or is it on everybody else to bail out the Democrats whenever it's time to have an election? There's no way. So what I'm saying is this. The Democrats can't get the things that black people ask them to do done. Not our fault. Not our fault. We can't give you the voting rights.

Is it their fault? Just hold on. We can't give you the voting rights. We can't give you the justice. in policing. Not our fault. Not our fault. It's not us. It's them. Okay. Now, the support erodes. It's not their fault for not messaging this stuff. It's your fault for not knowing it. So it's not the Democrats. Things are going well. You guys can't see it because you guys aren't educated enough. You're not smart enough. That is literally not what she said. Am I in a twilight tone?

That's certainly what she said. She said there's some. certain things about civics, which is the function of the government and how it works that people don't understand. There are people that don't understand that. Okay, well, then let's give her credit for what she said. And what she said was there are certain people that don't get this. So it's not our messaging, right, is that you don't understand. It seems as if whenever there is time for accountability, it's not their fault. They're not messaging to people and running campaigns around what they've done correctly. It's not their fault when they can't get something done.

The only thing that you can do as an American that will help the Democrats is just vote when they say vote. Hey, everything's going wrong. We've lost all of this. We don't have this. But, hey, as long as you keep voting for us, down the line, we can promise that we'll give you this. Down the line, we can promise that this is going to happen.

You can't afford not to vote because the other side is so bad. That's not untrue. But at the same time, they don't take responsibility for any of the things that they don't do. And they don't take responsibility for any of the things that they do do. You've said on this very podcast that the Democrats are putting out messaging there. There have been episodes where you're like they are putting stuff out there. No, no, no, that's not what I've said. I've said that they are doing stuff.

Okay. So what I've said is, what I've said is, and I'm glad you said that, because when things have gone right, when the jobs report has come out, when these different things have, when their economy looks to be growing, when inflation is slowing, when all those things, we talk about those things here. And I think that there are things that the administration has been able to do in order to make those things happen. And I'm not saying that they're doing a bad job.

I'm saying they're not giving us what we wanted. But there are reasons for that too. What I'm saying here, though, is that for me, for us, for the electorate at large, if you want people to know how well you're doing, your messaging is part of being a political machine and entity. So what would that messaging, let me just, what would that messaging look like? Because we can agree that, because I don't agree with you that that's what she was saying and that everything is, is Dahl's fault and not the Democrats' fault. How can you not agree with that?

Wait, first off, it's not the Democrats' fault that we don't have the Voting Rights Act and we don't have the George Floyd and Policing Act. It is Democrats' fault. Okay, so they had the majority in Congress to be able to get the vote? There were Democrats who would not support it. There were Democrats.

If all the Democrats voted, it still wasn't going to pass. But what I'm telling you, though, is they weren't even able to get their caucus, the people that they have on board with getting some of this stuff done. And if they had had all of them, they still wouldn't have had the votes, is my point. They still wouldn't have had the votes if they had all of them. So you can't solely say the reason that we don't have those two things that the black community was absolutely expecting to get is because of the Democrats. You can't say that.

They ran on it, though. I know they ran on it, but they don't have control, but they don't have control over Congress. So what I'm saying is they don't have majority votes. So then this is the way you set yourself up to lose. We're talking about the civics of this, right? We're talking about the civics of it. The way you set yourself up to lose is to go, hey, not to us who understand 60 and a filibuster and all of that stuff, not to those people.

The way you set yourself up to lose is to go, hey, vote for Warnock and Asov, right? Because we need the majority in the Senate so we can really push our agenda through. And then we have the tie-breaking vote with Kamala Harris because we need to be able to get our agenda through. Then everybody goes out and they vote. Then you come back a couple of months later and you go, you know what, we need more than that. So what we said really wasn't the whole truth.

If you want people to understand how things work because the American people, like not the elite of us who get a chance to sit around and volley these issues back and forth, like they just listen to what you tell them. The Republican messaging is much simpler, and they're talking to a homogenous electorate to a large degree. The Democrats have to figure their messaging out. And blaming the people that you're expecting to save your ass

every time they go to the poll is just not a good way to go about it. I'm sorry. I feel like you probably think that I give politicians too much credit, and I think that you're not allowing people to take responsibility as well. I don't think that you are. I really don't think so. I mean, what she's saying is true.

When you do have prominent people with a platform who are saying reckless things that aren't true, then how are you not blaming those people? So it's, so it's Democrats' fault that sexy red doesn't know that Congress issues checks. Okay. So this is what I would say. It's not.

It's not the Democrats' fault that sexy red. is, is, is, is, it thinks that Trump wrote her a personal check for $1,400 and that's why she's going to vote. It's not, it's not that. It is Democrats fault to educate their electorate, not only on what they're going to do, but what they've done and why they couldn't do the things that, that they do. And I'll say this. A lot of this stuff has to do with the fact that they play too nice. You have the president right now, nice man. man. Not the president, but he'll go through great lengths to tell you that he's like super close with Mitch McConnell. And they're pals. We disagree, but it's cool. It's all of that stuff. I get it.

To me, and I've always said this, if you can't get it done. And this is what Baccari and a lot of the other people we were trying to do. Shout to Baccarry. Baccari had a press conference. He goes up there and he says, Joe Manchin, Christian Cinema. These people are saying in our way. like if you're the president, use your bullpit to pressure and influence people to get on board with what it is that's going on. And if not, let people know exactly why things aren't going the way you would want them to go. I'm not against that. So the question is, why don't they do it? I'm not against. I'm not even against that what you're saying.

But for you to say that what she's saying is wrong because it's the Democrats' fault that people don't know. I think what you're not taking to account is people also. have to be receptive and want to know those things. Some people don't. It's just as simple of them is like, am I getting money? Am I losing money? Do I have a job or gas prices up? Like some people don't want to know the details of that. It's as simple as like, because this is why I say she's not calling people dumb, but like, have you ever seen the people that do the man on the street? Yeah. And they ask questions. Like, who's the vice president? Yeah. Who's the secretary of the state? Right. People will be like Bill Clinton, Abe Lincoln.

Like, we'll just name random stuff. There's also not a curiosity or desire for people to know or understand those things. They don't care to. And so I think it's you saying there's no, that's why I said, well, what do you want the Democrats to do? I'm not letting them off scot-free. But what I'm saying is, is it's scot-free or scotch-free? Scotch-free. It's scot-free.

Oh, I was right the first time. Yes. It sounded wrong coming out of my mouth. I'm not letting the Democrats off Scott Free, but what I'm saying is you act like if they have this perfect messaging and they filtered it in a way to people who would be willing to vote Democrat, then they would receive it. I just don't think that that's the truth.

I think that political entities are responsible for a couple of things. Number one, they're responsible for motivating their elector to get out and vote. Correct. They are. They're responsible for educating their electors. on why they should vote. Correct. They're responsible to delivering what they said that they were going to do to their electorate.

And so those three things are things that the Democrats are responsible for. And we can sit here and talk about how stupid Americans are all we want because we already did that. We already did that. We already talked about how uninformed and rubish and hickish. that Americans are. What happened was we separated between coastal elites and the people in the middle of the country

who felt like they had been abandoned by political establishments because we talked over their heads. Then the guy came in and told them lie after lie after lie after lie and they elevated him to God status. Because it made them feel a certain way, which is what she said.

What I'm telling you is that the Democrats need a messenger. They need a messenger of what's wrong in America, what's right in America, and how they can fix it. And blaming the people that you need to empower you, it's just a poor way to do it. I just don't think that that's what she did, but we'll agree to disagree. We'll agree to disagree. I like her. I like her. You got to make people take responsibility as well. And I feel like you're not accounting, you're not requiring people to take any responsibility. You're not. Wait a minute. I just don't. Just real quick. They're the leaders.

Okay. Like, they're the people that need you to vote for them. So Democrats haven't put out any type of messaging. I'm telling you that their messaging isn't working. And I'm saying that there's got to be somebody in the party somewhere. Look, when Barack Obama was standing up there, motherfuckers knew where they stood. And a lot of people only voted for him.

This is what she meant by feeling and perception being reality. a lot of people only voted for Barack Obama because he was black. I tell you something right now. Even white people because they wanted to say that they voted for the first black. No, a lot of people voted for Barack Obama because he was black. I'm sure they did, but like. A lot of people. It's not because they have this genius messaging.

It was because you're wrong, man. I'm sorry, a lot of people voted for him. He was black. Even when you listen to President Obama, as he talked about the Middle East in the last couple of days, it's just night and fucking day. It's night and day compared to I'm not comparing him to Barack Obama. Do you think he would be the, he would talk and I'm not,

you're right, what he's been saying has been great. Do you think that he would have that same energy if he was the president of the United States? It's easier to say to speak in a different way when you don't hold the office. What I'm saying is I'm not, you know, I have my problems with Barack Obama as well. It is what it is.

But what I will say is that in politics, which is a game of public perception, right? It's a game of public perception, politics. It's leveraging things to get people to vote for you. It's just not a winning strategy to turn around and tell those people, we're doing everything you're asking us to. You're just not smart enough to see it. And even if that's true, you shouldn't say that.

Even if it's accurate. I'm not saying, I don't believe she said that. That's what, I'm not saying that everybody's dumb and she's right. I'm saying, I don't believe that that's what she was saying. You're saying that. I'm not going to sit here and say that the reason that the Democrats aren't getting their messaging through or Biden is, a poll came out today. The Biden is losing in a lot of key states. I'm not saying it's because people are dumb.

You believe she said that. I'm not saying that. Well, I think that people are looking at Joe Biden and they're going, I don't know, man. They are, of course. Yeah. We are. but when you're faced with the other option, as you said on the last podcast,

it's like, well, I'm not going to vote for the other side. And there's not a better option at the moment. A couple of the things going on in politics. New House Speaker Mike Johnson, this guy is getting off to a fucking gangbuster start. He's had every fucking bad idea that you could have. Mike Johnson has the worst ideas of anyone ever. Just everything that they bring up on him,

they say, hey, Mike, In 2004, do you remember advocating for chastity belts for Jesus, where you set in the state house and said that you thought every woman over 35 who was unmarried should have to wear a chastity belt that only opened when you said specific Bible verses. I mean, you know, who can remember a vote from that long ago? seems like something that God is in favor of when you talk about closing your legs to Satan, Satan's penetration, but I don't know if I supported that.

Like every fucking thing, this guy's got some of the craziest things, man. This dude is, he had a porn packed with his son. Yeah, I knew you would be excited about this story. Him and his son shared a subscription-based accountability program called Covenant Eyes and it targets porn.

The first page of the site as are you struggling to quit watching porn and then it warns you're not alone. And his son was his accountability partner as they tried to

like not watch porn. That's weird. That's not weird to you? But that's that's not that's a little weird, right? It's very weird, van. Like I mean, I never heard anything like this before.

It's extremely weird. What else you want me to say about it? I don't know. I knew you were going to want to do this story. This guy is weird. I don't trust this guy is super weird, man. We're talking about conversion therapy. We're talking about anti-LGBQ plus A.

We're talking about anti-porn, anti-fun, anti-this guy is weird. This is a weirdo that they put there. It's like a real problematic guy. Yeah, this just adds to the list of things we completely. playing about when he was or mentioned. But this is a bridge too far for me. It was all too far. He's outrageous.

Mike Johnson is outrageous. Mike Johnson. But let me ask you this. Sure. Is it official that they are watching porn? This is what I didn't understand about the accountability program. Is this a program like just in case you have a desire to watch porn or does this already mean I'm an addict and I need somebody to stop me or is this a preventative measure?

couldn't determine between the two. I mean, what difference does it make? It doesn't. I'm just curious. We're talking about it. So I'm talking about it. Is he an addict? What happens when you fail?

What happens when you fail? Do you tell your dad, like, I was on browsers this morning? Well, no, the dad would see. Oh, that's right. You would see. Yeah, they call them out. So you're tempted to not because somebody, your partner's going to see it. Or you could just have accountability to where y'all just both do it.

And you're just like, we just keep the secret between the two of us. Yeah. They're watching the same. stuff together. They're sharing accounts for us. It doesn't mean they're watching it together. I mean, they're watching it together as in they're watching the same stuff. You know, people don't like the porn talk on the show. Well, I'm not a fan of it either, Van. Why is this one so uptight? It's not uptight. It's just like not necessary. It's not relevant. Why? The conversation I will say was interesting with Alexis, Texas, because, you know, we're talking about a bigger issue with the

industry. But like this, it's like, where are we going to go with this topic? All right, it's weird. This shit is weird. I don't think having a legitimate weirdos. The things that extreme Christians come up with, like you said, conversion therapy, shit like this. Like, it's wild. I'm telling you. Like the stuff that they come up with, it's just. It's rich too far. It's cultish.

It's cultish. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more.

Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and make it a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo line. or road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors.

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Yeah, they loved him. he's in a back and forth with Meek Mill Rick Ross over hip hop So D1 has called out The hip hop community Over some of the putrid messages In the music Specific people

He named them He named D1 This is the thing about D1 D1 D1 names names He doesn't just say I'm sick of all of these messages In hip hop

D1 says Hey in the third verse of fuck these hoes Rick Ross said this about black women or about this and I don't fuck with that. He doesn't curse but he names names when he's calling people out. People don't like this. He called them out on Sway's universe.

Donnie, go ahead and run that. Jim Jones, you could do better, brother. I love you too much. I love you too much to not be honest with you. Rick Ross, you could do better, brother. Meek Mill, You could do better, brother. I love you too much, not to be honest with you.

Are you to face of prison reform? Because I held, are you to face a prison reform? Or are you sitting here on your new song with Ross talking about getting somebody murked and shot at the red light? Which one is it, bro? Which one is it, bro? Because I did a shoe giveaway in my city and gave out 1,300 pairs of your shoes because they said reform underneath them.

And I love that you partnered with a major shoe company and you're out here pushing prison reform. But now I got to sit here like, man. This man glorifying getting people killed as of a week ago. Like, what are you doing, bro? Little Snoop really got killed. That broke your heart. You wear him around your neck.

Why are you glorifying the same thing? When my best friend got killed. When Carl got killed, New Orleans know who I'm talking about. When Carl got killed and I had to go to his funeral and read the eulogy and be part of the funeral. And I got back in my car sway after the funeral and I turned on my music. And I realized I'm listening to music that's glorifying the same stuff. that just happened to my best friend. It gave me chills.

And I needed that moment. That was my coming to Jesus moment of like, Dee, you got to do something different, brother, because you have a taste for this poison. But you're attracted to the poison. And rap is great. The rap game, hip-hop industry is great at cooking up some delicious poison. Okay.

Now, Mick Mill and Rick Ross, they responded. Mick Mill responded on Instagram. He said, now we do everything. I was rapping this way when I became the face of reform. That's how I got there. Y'all forgot that fast. Do we have the audio from Rick Ross's response, Donnie? Mick Mill, you could do better, Jim Jones, you could do better.

Rick Raw, you could do better. I got to see you do better. Wait, wait. Little man, whoever you is, until you feed the kids where you from for 20 years straight. Don't question Rose. Wait, wait, until you buy 10,000 bikes. 10,000 trikes. Give all the young girls who pregnant

pamper for Christmas for 20 years straight. Don't question boss. You heard me, little man? Get that basket off your head so you could think, clear little man. You're going viral for speaking on niggas names, not because of your talent, not because of your gift. Go viral player.

Off of your wisdom that you're sharing. You're speaking old. You're in me, me, Bill. You just, well, you know what I mean? These niggas died the summer. They released self-destruction. this niggas dying right now that's gonna be niggas don't make it to see in the morning

get that basket off your head boy and come together with real niggas around the world Okay then you know D responded in all of this this raises an interesting question and I wonder what you think Rachel Who's right Who's right here

Who is correct Do we need to be more direct And calling out some of the pernicious elements in hip hop music by calling out artists directly and like trying to hold them to a standard to have better messages in the music or is this the wrong way to go about it? I think that I agree a little bit more with D1 on this because I feel like and I don't know Rick Ross or Jim Jones like I don't know if they're involved with prison reform as well.

I just know Meek Mill has done a lot and as he even says. said been the face of it. So I don't understand. I mean, I guess I understand D1 more because it's like how are you going to rap about these things about killing people? But then on the other side, talk about prison reform. And the act that you're rapping about sends people to prison. It just doesn't make sense. And for Meek Mills' response to be, well, I've been rapping this way. This is what I was doing before I was the face of prison reform. I mean, reform means to be better, to improve, to change. So you can't change the way that you rap now that you are the face of this whole movement

with prison reform. So I agree with D1 on that. I can't, is Rick Ross involved with it as well? Rick Ross is not involved in prison reform. But to his point, he's very philanthropic. And then I, it's just. just, it's like, okay, if you're upset with what D1 said, I don't think D1 was calling you out. Like, he's just like, hey, I'm holding you to a certain standard, be better.

Then Rick Ross goes and makes fun of his accent, which I love a New Orleans accent. He talks about, you know, like his attire, his style, and then diminishes D1 in what he means to a community because he's done a lot for the community as well. So the fact that he's talking about him in such a disrespectful way, as if D1 hasn't done, I don't even know everything he's done, and I know he's done a lot. So it's just, I don't think D1 was ill, at ill intention. He's just like, hey, I'm asking y'all to be better. You're doing something that's amazing.

So your art is, your art should reflect that as well. Yeah. So look, this is what I would say. However you do something, it should always reflect the reaction that you want, right? Mm-hmm. And so when you think about the response that you want from someone, you should think about the way you're going about it. All right.

So D1, I think here is done with any sort of equivocation. He wants to set a standard about hip-hop, about the music, about the messages. Yeah. And he's not going to bend, break. or fold on that standard. He wants to redefine culturally what good and bad is. And that seems pretty standard, but it's not. It's complicated, and it's been complicated.

It's been complicated to try to discern what's positive or negative. And I'll tell you why. When you're dealing with the people, hip-hop is such a conduit to money and fame and success for young black people that we've had to make a lot of I'd say not by the way not all hip hop

I'm talking about like the specifically either hypersexual demeaning women misogynistic and violent part of hip hop we've had to make some some value calls there

we've had to make some value adjustment there We've got to make some sacrifices there. And those sacrifices are, will we rather these guys rap about it or will we rather these guys do it, right? And when people come from a deprived situation, their version of success sometimes changes. There's a lyric in the I'm So Hood remix

where Buster says, I'm so hood where I come from if the nigger sell drugs and mama's still proud of a son right when there's no success success

becomes the bar it becomes the goal by any means so the drug dealer at least he ain't broke he's not fucked up like the rest of us the pimp I want to be him

all I see is somebody who's not going through the same thing gradations of that come down to people who are not necessarily doing that, but rapping about that. And rapping about that way after is their actual life. You know? And so I think what's changing now to me is this. There was a time where, you know, rappers would rap about things and it would take them further,

get them out of hood, get their people out of hood, get everyone out of the hood. That was fine. That was cool. But, you know, things would change. You'd see these guys on Oprah, not necessarily Oprah or Good Morning America or wherever. Things would change. Like, they would grow. They would move past it.

They wouldn't be fucking around in the same way they were fucking around. After a certain point, maybe a little bit earlier in their careers, but they would grow out of that. At a certain point, you see TI on a reality show. You see the rest of these guys like, it's over, right? We're not doing that stuff anymore. What's happened now is that there's a tethering to a lifestyle. that exists in a more direct way for a longer amount of time

because so much stuff on the internet is bringing reality directly to you and they're actual real killers rapping on songs now. And so it's harder for a lot of these guys to move not away from the streets themselves but away from a street ethic. And we're seeing guys in their late 30s

in their early 40s and their mid-40s still on the internet running. around talking street shit. And it is getting a little ridiculous. So you agree with D-Warn? I agree with his message. I guess the question is, if you want Rick Ross and Meek Mill to do better,

is this the way to get them to do better? I don't think they're going to do what they want to do, period. I agree. Sorry. I agree. This is directly confrontational. Yeah, it is. And so if it's directly confrontational,

are you going to get from them some understanding of what it is that they're doing? Or are you going to get from them a confrontation that everybody can see getting to that further solidifies your stance? The only thing I would ask D-1, who is an amazing person, but who is human, because a human being,

is this for us or this is for him? I don't know him as well as you do. He's a great guy. I would think that this was for us. Right. To be honest, from the few times we've had him on the podcast, from the research that I've done on him,

I would think that this was, it's bigger than him. Yeah. But when it comes to like a Meek Mill or Rick Ross or Jim Jones, who, to my knowledge, hasn't responded, I don't think that D1 could ever get his message through to them,

I think the only way they would actually hear what he's trying to say or what standard he's trying to set is if it came from someone that they respected on their level. And it's clear from what Rick Ross said, he has absolutely no respect for D-1. Well, he's never, they're never going to.

And they're never going to. But if, like, I don't know, like, if Jay-Z had said this, behind closed doors. I don't know if the confrontational way would have worked. But if Jay-Z said this to them, I think it would be a totally different response.

I don't think it would be. I think if he did it on like Sway's show Yeah it would be the same response Because they would feel like they have to meet that That energy that he brought in such a public way I think if he did it behind closed doors It would be different You know when you listen to it

When you listen to it To me there's not a lot of if If he were talking to me I would take stock I definitely would But you just always have to know Like who it is that you're talking to Sure And all of us, with all of our platforms and everything that we're doing and everything that we have going on,

we just have to remember like what the actual goal is. You know what I'm saying? Because I don't think that he meant like any harm. I don't either. I think he's doing, I think he's sick of it. You know what? I've thought about it. There's no good way to do it.

There's no right way to do it. Yeah. You just have to talk. You just do it. If you want to set a different standard, you can't do it in a nice way where everyone's going to feel, you have to call out like what's fucked up. And even though what I just did a second ago,

and leave all that in, even what I just did a second ago is there's this, there's still this thing in me to where it just seems difficult to talk in a, certain way about guys that come from where I come from. It's hard. It's hard to say that's wrong. It's difficult to be like, hey, that's not right.

I can see that. I've been in the not right stage. Hey, Mr. TM, Z guys, all of that stuff like that. It's hard to be, obviously what he's doing, he's doing it for, I mean, he works with children. Like he's a middle school teacher. He's done all of this stuff. Sometimes it's hard to be like, hey, what you're doing is wrong.

Because you don't want to take away from something. somebody else's success because you know how hard that success is. So even me right now, when he's doing this, I even feel convicted. I'm like, God damn, I wish there was a different way rather than just talk directly at these brothers. But there's no way to get to where you're trying to go by talking around it. And let's also note it takes a lot of courage to do what D1 did because a lot of people don't want to upset people with power and money. I know, I could tell. But I also understand exactly what you're saying.

they're familiar to you. You relate to them in certain ways by coming from the same type of place. Like, I get that. You, when you're close to something, not that you want to excuse it, but you understand it in a different way. No, no, no, you want to excuse it.

No, no, it's not, no, you want to excuse it. Like, we come from different places. Like, when you were growing up, these were the people that your dad was put in jail. When I was growing up, these were, not really. These were the people that I lived amongst. And even when somebody like gets out of jail and when somebody's doing something, you don't, you love them.

Like you love them. You don't want to tell them. Yeah. That type of situation. So it's even hard for me sometimes to be like, I can, I'll criticize the music. But I won't say, hey, that song is bad. Yeah. Or hey, that message is bad.

Or hey, you can't do both this and do that. But we've got to start doing that. It's time for me to be the old thing. And I think what makes it a little easier to do in this situation is the response from Rick Ross. and Meek Mill. Like, they don't care. Meek actually really cares about prison reform. I'm not saying they don't care about that.

The good they do, I'm saying he's so dismissive of D1 calling out the hypocrisy in the art versus what you're doing for the community. You're encouraging a certain lifestyle that leads to the exact thing that you're trying to change. There's hypocrisy in that. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, you can't do that. And Meek Mill's response was like, I was doing this. before. So, like, it's so flipping.

His response is like, and this is another thing, his response is, I wouldn't be able to even have a voice on this if I wasn't rapping this way. And that's the fucked up double-edged sword of all of this. It's like they're more willing to listen to Meek Mill on that because of who Meek is than they would be on D,

who lives his life in this really disciplined and godly way because they got to care about what you're doing it sometimes seems like the only way to make them care is to do it in a certain way. It's a tough one. It's a tough one. But everybody just think about the grander picture. Even myself. Like I was like, oh, is it about D1? No, it's definitely not about D1. He's been on this forever. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Trimphia is administered

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the counter visit your local deli today discover the craftsmanship behind every bite boarshead committed to craft since 1905 or do you like sassy men? I didn't understand this you don't like it say I didn't like it I'm trying to understand the movement you're the sassy men movement I was not really aware of it is this trend on TikTok right? Yeah, there's a guy. His name is Pray 444. And he's apparently sassy on TikTok. Okay.

And look, he's the face of sassy men and it's been used to describe expressive men with bigger attitudes. Some have deemed feminine, okay? Initially sassy was a derogatory term using a homophobic manner. That's what Donnie has here in the notes. But now it's something that's like, cool, this guy, everyone, the black, Black ladies love this guy. His name is Prajaj Mishra. He's blown up in the past month.

Have you seen any of his TikToks? Yeah, I don't get it. You don't get them? I'm about clicked on the TikTok. Give me another one, Dottie. Give me the second one that's in there. I really don't know how to feel about this whole sassy thing. And I wanted to talk about it.

The first thing I want to say is guilty, guilty, guilty. I've been that. Sassy, I've been that. You don't choose to be sassy. That's just your personality. Like, if it was up to me, I would have chosen to be nonchalant and sexy. God wanted me to be loud and sassy. What can I say?

What can I say? What can I say? 4-4 pray. He's the leader of Pookie Nation, where he's the sassy man. His women are his pookies. And so, you know, they like him. And there was a gentleman on Twitter. who took aim at some of the black ladies

that are a member of Pookie Nation saying that there's a double standard with sassy. Mm-hmm. All right. Donnie running. I really don't know how to feel about this whole sassy thing and I wanted to talk about it. I shouldn't say what I'm about to say.

I should not say what I'm about to say for many reasons. One, I shouldn't say what I'm about to say because it'll make me sound like a pick me, which maybe I am. I'm not perfect. I also shouldn't say what I'm about to say. because it'll make me sound jealous.

And the reality is this is a, you know, it's a free country. Like people can say what they want. People can be attracted to who they want. Like it's fine. I also shouldn't say what I want to say because when people like something or somebody, they will go to the lengths of gaslighting people who they know are speaking facts.

But it threatens who they like or what they like. So while being aware of all those things, I'm still going to say, what's been irking me lately. There's a lot of black women up under this man's comments and on Twitter. A lot of black women foaming at the mouth

and drooling at the mouth at his good looks and his sassiness. He's getting a lot of praise. A lot of praise. I'm not speaking to all black women. I don't want to generalize because I know that's not cool. But a lot of y'all only think

that he is so attractive in his sassiness because he's not black and because he's light-skinned. A lot of y'all, dare I say most of y'all, would not accept his behavior on a brown-skinned or dark-skinned black man. It would go from he's so sassy, but I'm attracted to him to he's so sassy. And what you really mean is he's gay or comes across gay. and you might as well call that man the F word because y'all mean it as a slur when you say it to black men and then it's funny because i see some videos popping up of black men stitching his video and like

showing the comments and being like well damn like is this are we allowed to be like this way now like are we allowed to like be full humans and everything like that and i'm like no no no baby not you you're too dark you're black they don't want you to act like that it's only okay for him to like that. It's just something I noticed. What do you think? So the guy who created the movement is not queer.

I'm not sure. Well, I need to know because that determines I'm assuming he's not. Or Donnie, I don't know. I don't like this story. Why? I don't know. I need to know if he's queer or not because that depends. That goes

towards what this guy's response is. I'm not sure whether he's queer or not, why, let me ask you this, why does it make a difference? Well, he's saying that these women are attracted to this, if he's saying this guy is straight, and these women, these black women in particular, are under this non-black man's post, and uplifting him and telling him how attractive he is in his sassiness, and that they would want to be with him and are permitting that of him. Because he's saying that black men that are straight, I'm trying to understand,

can't aren't allowed to do that because black women would call them gay for being sassy. So the sassy's okay if you look one way, but it's not okay if you look another as a straight man. Is that what he's saying, Donnie? As a man, period. As a man period or a straight man? Well, you wouldn't know whether or not the guy was straight or not because what he's, what this guy specifically was saying is that the even appearance of being gay if you were dark skin and black or the, even appearance of being sassy or effeminate if you were dark skin and black would be so revolting to black women to large numbers of black women that it wouldn't even get to where it was

got. So it wouldn't matter if you were that or not. See, I don't, I don't think, but if you're gay and black women know that you're a gay man and they call, then sassy, it's not, it's not a thing. But what I'm saying is, I think he's straight. I know, but if straight or gay is beyond the point here, beyond the point. is how would they feel about a black man presenting this way? A straight black man

presenting to be a feminine. Donnie, please help. Because I think that's if the black man's gay, I don't think this would even be a discussion. If the black man's gay, what he said? Okay. So it's ambiguous whether or not the black, the guy is gay or straight, right? It's ambiguous. You don't know. And he's

allowed to be a feminine. And he's allowed to be a feminine. So whether or not you knew, if you knew that he was gay, then you you probably wouldn't be lusting over him. Maybe you wouldn't be lusting over him in the first place. Right. That's why I think he's straight.

Okay. So, but here's the thing now. But the very appearance of him being gay, according to this gentleman, is enough to where they wouldn't be lusting over him at all. And that is the problem that he's had. I need to know if he's straight or gay to be able to make this argument.

Because my thought is this guy is taking over this word sassy because it can be used in a negative. He wasn't taking over the word sassy. They said that he's sassy and he... Embraced it. Embraced it. So he didn't come on there like, here's sassy empire. I'm the sassy man.

They told him he was sassy and they liked it. What he's essentially saying is that they wouldn't have liked it, liked it, if he was a dark-skinned black man. Whether or not this guy is gay, whether or not this guy is straight, the fact that he's sassy would not be celebrated if he was not. I disagree. If the black men are gay, I don't think... Now, understand now. They're... I think black women have more of an issue with this guy saying,

if you're a straight black man and you're a feminine, then, like, you can't be sassy. Dark-skinned black men, that's what he's saying. Yeah. If you're a dark-skinned gay men, black women don't have a problem with it. Do you understand why that is not really figuring in here, though? No, I guess I'm sorry.

I am not. What I'm saying, the reason why it's not figuring in here, though, is because the entry to this is important. If, in fact, the guy comes off as, even if in fact the guy comes off as gay, right? If the guy comes off as gay, if he comes off as gay,

you don't know that he's gay. Right. Would you still be attracted to him if he's black? Yes, I understand what he's saying. Dark-skinned black men are not allowed to be even, be a feminine, straight. But it's not even about a feminine, right? It's like so many other things.

There's actually on Twitter, like this list of things that black men can't do. That like when a black man does something like a girl will come out or somebody will come out and be like, can you believe that I will, like a niggle, I will never a nigga doing that. And it's like, the list is so funny because this will be. But just the list the same if you're gay or straight. It's not. Donnie. Donnie. But Rachel, what, like, I'm, you guys.

It's not fucking complicated at all. Like, the list, the list... It is, right? The list is obviously, so these, this is, this is, if you're gay and you're, and they, and you're, and they, you're out and it's known that you're gay. What we're talking about is off the table because that attraction will be approached in a different way. The question is, not whether or not if you're gay or not, the question is if you're perceived as gay. If there's a proceed, because this goes from being sassy all the way to, like, crying to any other thing that you can show, right? Is that type of stuff?

And that's what I'm saying. If a, if, from, you're right. There's a list. If you're crying and you're straight, men are held to a different standard. If you're crying and you're gay. But what if you don't know, though? Okay. If you don't know.

If you don't know, then shouldn't have. The question is, if you don't know, if somebody burst into tears and you don't know whether or not they're gay or their strength. You're right. So the question is, who can cry? The question is, who can be sassy? The question is, if it's because, because in that case, then really, there shouldn't be any delineation between. There shouldn't be. Right.

But there is. But that's the point. The point is this guy, these women are lusting after this man, right? Because I don't think he's gay. Donnie, am I crazy? I don't like this either. This is, I don't know. This is so complicated.

You guys. You guys. You guys. It feels complicated to me. If the guy is not gay and he's coming across as effeminate, the criticism is that that value judgment only matters if you are liable. the criticism is that that value judgment only matters if you are light-skinned and good-looking. The actual, wait a minute, the actual sexual orientation of this person is not as important as to this guy, as the reaction to how he's presenting. The reaction to how he's presenting is if you come across, if you're wearing a man purse

or if you're metrosexual or whatever, whatever it is, and you're a dark-skinned black man and women are like, ooh, I don't like that. And you're this guy and they're like, oh my God, that's sassy, that's so cool. The guy's saying that there is latent homophobia in there that has to do probably with the hyper-masculinity that is both criticized by black men but also then reinforce. by their mates about how they have to act, and he's calling that out. And whether or not the dude is actually gay or straight,

does it reinforce or depower that, if anything, saying that you have to be gay to act a certain way is actually making this guy's point. No, this guy also talks about light skin versus dark skin, so he's basically saying he does. So he's also saying if you're light skin and you're effeminate, it's okay if you're dark-skinned and feminine, it's not. He's saying both things.

I don't agree with that. If that's how we're going to look at it, I don't think that that's true with how black women view men. I don't think light-skinned people get a pass to be effeminate and dark-skinned people don't. I think in general, black women look, it's men, not light or dark. Okay. So I actually don't agree with what, if that's how we're going to look at this,

I don't agree with that. Well, he said two things. He said, it is a double, like, it is a wrong standard. And it goes back to what you're saying about the long list of you can't do, this, you can do this, you can't do this. I think that is a standard that they have for black men, period. It doesn't matter if you're light or dark. I'm not saying

that's right either, by the way. Well, I think he said two things. I said, one, I think he said good looking, and then two, he said light skin. I don't, and I don't agree with that. Black, I think black women do have a standard that they expect black men to act, and I don't care if you're good looking, light skin, dark skin. There's

an unfair standard that I do believe that they expect men to have, that men are supposed to, black men are supposed to be and act a certain way. And I think it's a problematic standard, but I do not think that... So you think if this was a dark-skinned black man who was acting this way,

and they weren't sure whether he was gay or straight, but he was acting sassy, that they would still be into him? I don't think they would be. Okay, but it doesn't have to do with dark-skinned or light-skinned. I think it is black men. Right. Okay, so let's just stay there.

Yeah, let's just stay in this. Let's just stay there. Let's just stay there. because I don't understand why it took us so long to get there. Because there's just, there's, sorry, there's just different layers to it. Okay, what are the different ways? No, I don't want to go back. We, like, Donnie gets, we think it's more complicated.

You don't. I don't want to go back to let's just stay here. But you know what, though. Do you know why? I think it's important to know his sexuality to determine this guy's argument, but that's just me. I really don't. Okay, we'll agree to disagree. We don't have to go back into it.

Because I do sometimes think, though, that. the back flipping that we're doing here is to not like identify the fact that there is some entrenched homophobia. I'm agreeing with you. I'm just saying it's because of black women expect a black man to be something. Not a light skin man versus a dark skin man

or a good looking man versus an unattractive man. I just think there is a problematic standard. You've seen it on social media. Like a black man better do this. this and this. My black man better have this, this, this, and there's no space for him to be sensitive or to him to dress a certain way or carry a certain bag that automatically groups them into being in the queer community, which is extremely problematic and dangerous. I think that's something that we have seen. We don't think there's any colorism involved. I don't. I personally don't.

I haven't seen that. Right. I think that there's probably is. Like, I think that there probably is. So we'll use Drake. Okay. What about Drake? So if Drake wears Barrettes And he wears And he paints his nails And he paints his nails Men had way more

problem with that than women did Okay So do you think If Drake was Let's find a dark skin Meek Mill? If Meek Mill

If Meek Mill Is a little More street than Drake But go ahead Okay so If Lance Gross They're not fucking with it If Lance Gross

Had long hair No he's an attractive Darker skin man If Lance Gross had long hair and put barrettes in it or Tyson Beckford you think people would have a problem with it

I think they would have a problem with it I don't I don't I think well this is why I'll say because some of those I got a problem with Drake actually because I think it's not cool like some of those guys like for example for example

Lil Yadi is where Drake got it from he wears Barrette's he does I don't think that women are attracted to Lil Yadi like that so when you when you when you when you say Lance Gross or Tyson Beckford or somebody like that. Drake, for whatever reason, I mean, women, well, not for whatever reason, Drake is a handsome guy to women.

Women like Drake. It seems as if that wasn't a big deal. But I do think... I don't think anybody cares that little yaddy wears his hair like that. I know because he's not a sex symbol. But I think if like Kofi or Damsin or any of those guys that like women really get into, darker skin guys would do that, I think the reaction would be different. I would just politely ask you, to take the brats out. Whether you were Drake, whether you were Kofi,

because I don't like it, period. You don't like it. Okay. Boy, that was a tough one right there. That was a tough one. But, Johnny, you understand what I was saying? Yeah, it is layered. It's not so black and white.

I mean, I think people are complicated. And this is an example of how, like, each individual has their own, they're bringing their own stuff to the table. And that, like, is exponentiallyated, however you would say that. That's like, it's even more complicated

because we're like bringing in these different things like sexual orientation and just presenting your way, like the way that you present to other people. And then it's people's preferences. Like, there's just so many different layers to it that it,

I guarantee listening back to this. I'm going to be like, yeah, this was a complicated conversation that we tried to bring home. I also need to know the TikTokers' response. I need to know what his, because I think, I needed to know what his sexuality was as well.

Because I think there's just, the opinion is coming from a different place. I've watched it just now. You watched a TikTok that made the video? Yeah, well, I listened to it and I had it on silent so I could see him. Right. I'm not going to assume anybody's sexuality.

But I think it's important to have the conversation of, because you're saying the women are straight, they're in your comments. Straight women are coming after what guy? Your response is what? as a straight man or as someone in the queer community. I don't know. I think you need to know all of the background to be able to have an opinion

or to be able to, I guess not to have an opinion, but to be able to go back and forth on it. That's just, that's what I was saying. I do think, too, there is something to be said about how we were more easily able to, like, pick examples of lighter-skinned people who we think or know are straight, who, like, as a Drake. And then we had to, like, give hypotheticals of black people who have presented in this way. And, like, I think there's something to be said there, that we were able to pull real-world examples of black-skinned people and had to do hypotheticals of dark-skinned straight people for this exercise.

A lot of this is entrenched white supremacy, the hyper-masculinity of the black male that we all take part in. All right. Worst story I've seen in a long time. Did you see this about the Alabama pastor? Oh, my gosh. There's a piece of shit running around. And, you know, I don't even know how to get into this. There was a pastor in Alabama.

I passed away now, took his own life. His name was F.L. Bubba Copeland. This gentleman cosplay as a transgender woman. And he was a mayor of a town, Smith Station, Alabama. And he was also a pastor. And he was put on blast by a place called 1819. news. They published photos of Copeland wearing women's clothing and alleged the pastor was leading a secret life as a transgender woman. Donnie, could you find the name of the guy who wrote this

article please? We'll make sure he gets his article ready. The article reported that he operated social media accounts identifying as a transitioning transgender curvy girl. And he had self-authored transgender fiction. Okay. He said in an interview with, with 1819 news, that it was a hobby, it was fantasy, that he made up the stories and did the stuff to relieve strex and that the erotical is purely fiction. He deleted the accounts and requested it did not be made public, cited his family position as a pastor.

He then went to the pulpit and addressed the article, church service on Wednesday. He said, I've been the object of an internet attack in an article that was written without my capacity as a mayor, written about my capacity as a mayor and my capacity as a pastor. The article is not who I am or what I am. As I said,

I'm thankful for the grace that God gave me and the willingness to forgive. I have nothing to be ashamed of. A lot of things that were said were taken out of context. This gentleman went on to kill himself after this, unalive himself, should I say?

The article was written by a gentleman by the name of Craig Monger, who works for 1819 news. Now, there are some people that say that this article was newsworthy because it did more than talk about Bubba Copeland's secret life as a transgender lady. That Bubba Copeland had written fan fiction. I don't know if you saw this part. Yeah, I did. Where he fantasized about killing a member of the Smith Station community and assuming her identity.

This was a real person that he wrote about. I thought it was fiction. It was a, it was fictional account, but it was a real person. You named the person? Yeah. Oh, shit. Yeah. And I'll ask you, does that change things?

No, it doesn't. Turn them into the authorities. Doesn't mean that you, like, if he wrote a fictional novel about killing an actual person, then turn him into the authorities. That doesn't mean that what you need to do, is write an entire article, published photos of him, dressed as a transgender woman,

put the messages that he had on Reddit, all of that, I'm sorry, this is an alt-right publication. This is a man who was the mayor of this small town and a pastor of what seems to be a large church in their community. And they wanted to humiliate him.

They wanted to out him. I'm not going to, I'm not, you know, like saying it's okay what he wrote about in the erotica, the fiction, that's not okay. But there are ways to deal with that that don't include publishing an article about his personal life when you know in a small community like this that this is going to do, tear him and his family apart. Because just a little bit on Bubba Copeland, I mean, this is a man who ran for mayor

and all, his whole outlook was to change the city from what it was to may, he called the city Mayberry and he wanted a different vision for it in 2023. He was about growing the businesses. He had this whole vision for it. And then four years before this, he had to step up with the city because the city was devastated by a tornado, an EF4 tornado. And to even where the president came to talk to him and visit the community and commend him for the work that he was doing to step up as a leader. Everybody who talked about this man talked about what a good man he was and how good his heart was and how dedicated to the community. that he was. So to me, you know, it just goes back to like talking about when we were talking about

Mike Johnson and his son and the porn and just sometimes these extremists, these people who are these, you know, fire and brimstone Christians are throat, like, are so ready to tear down somebody else maybe because they're, they're hateful of their own thing or to hide what they're doing in their own personal life. And it's just, this is, to be a Christian is not this. This doesn't practice Christianity. And this was just such a way to demonize him is what they were doing. And it's just wrong on all accounts.

And at the end of the day, the man ended up taking his life. So, I mean, we could talk about the fact that this was part of the newsworthiness of this was, you know, because the article about him writing the fiction came out, I think, three days later after the original article. So that wasn't originally what was in the reporting. Originally what was in the reporting was the fact that this guy had another life as a transgender woman and that that was weird and bad for people. That's the way this reads. The way this reads is that your pastor is transgender. Your pastor isn't who he says he is. Your mayor isn't. Your mayor isn't who he says he is.

And so you need to be aware of the illicit things that they're doing behind closed doors. That's the way this comes off. It doesn't come off as, hey, look, this person is a danger to the community. Doesn't come off like that. You don't think it insinuates that? This is a small town in Alabama. Understand what I'm saying. What I'm saying is not, I'm using that in terms of people that would say that him

writing about killing a member of the community is dangerous and people need it to know. that's not the tenor of the article. The tenor of the article is look at how poorly this person's character is. Look at how weird or bad this person is. How ungodly. This is a, and you need to know. This was an outy. Yes, it was.

And it is a perfect example of how people who are dealing with their sexual identity, their sexual orientation, how they're treated in communities all over the country. They have their business put on front street, even when they don't want it to be. And then they're left to either live a life that deals with the shame, the weight of the shame for however long they have on the earth or to take their lives. And all too often they take their lives. This was incredibly irresponsible, useless reporting, mean-spirited and evil reporting by Craig Mom. in 1819 news and they should be fucking ashamed of themselves. Absolutely.

I mean, and not only ashamed of themselves, if I was the family of this man, I would file a wrongful death claim against the paper and against Craig Monger as well. Yeah, no, absolutely. Something that... Lawsuit, I say, lawsuit. Something that, you know, when the article came out,

Copeland's actually quoted, gave quote, Like he knew that this article was coming And something that he said I want to know what you think about this He said What I do in my private life Has nothing to do with what I do In my holy life

You agree with that Because it just makes me think of Oh boy Come on help me The Christian rock star pastor Carl Litz Makes me think of Carl Lentz You and I had it back and forth

where we didn't agree with how that was handled. And when I saw this quote, it made me think of that again. What I do in my private life has nothing to do with what I do in my holy life. Interesting.

It depends on the way you look at it. So this is why I'll say. I think a lot of this has to do with how it's judged on the outside. In the case of Carl, most of the soul searching that he was going to have to do was with his own family

and putting his own family back together, right? Because of the things that he went through the things that he put his family through. I actually spoke to him a couple of times earlier this year. I talked to him. After the documentary came out? After the documentary came out. And he said something

that I think is really interesting. And I know people are rooting against Carl because they hate it when they're disappointed in someone and people have all kinds of views on him. But he said something that's really interesting. He said, they always say that like you fall from grace. That you fall from grace. And he's like, you can't fall from grace. You can only fall into grace.

Grace is what you have for people. He's like, when you fall from grace is not a thing, you fall into grace. And if you have any type of faith or any type of belief in that, that's poignant. Because grace is what you should have for people when they fail. And grace is what God has for people when they fail. So when you fall, when you fall, you fall into grace. And a lot of times as human beings, we don't provide that grace. And that's just part of who we are.

But I see it a lot in the Christian faith. And I think that really is something. When you and I just agreed about Carl Lentz, I said, I thought he should be removed from the position, not the church. I don't believe in turning your back. Like, that's not Christianity. That's not Christian values. I don't believe in turning your back on somebody

or kicking them or out, put it like out. Ooh, I cannot talk. or expelling them from the church, you're supposed to wrap your arms around them and help them and support them and be better. Those are the values. Like maybe they aren't deemed to have that leadership position anymore, right? Like with Copeland here,

maybe he wasn't deemed to have that position, right? I will agree with that. But it doesn't mean that he needed to be outed and shamed because that's not what the values are. And I don't understand why that constantly gets lost. I don't understand how you can do one thing as a Christian and totally forget the other side of it. So I think it's all the same thing.

When I say all the same thing, I mean even removing somebody from a leadership position, I think all of it's the same thing. I think of a guy named Ted Hagger. Do you remember him? No. Ted Hagger was the, it's one of the best documentaries

anybody could ever watch. The trials of Ted Haggard. They did a couple of them. Ted Hagger was a Colorado. It was a big mega church that he was the past. of, right? And Ted Haggard was gay. He was gay. He was living a dual life. He had had sexual relations with someone got caught. They outed him. And then it happened again. There was some sex and

some drugs involved, all that stuff. And there was this really amazing documentary called the trials of Ted Haggard. It was about his life after that had happened. and they just obliterated them. Everything that he had was through the church, right? So his family had to move to another state. There was all of them living in like a one or two bedroom house. He was like passing out leaflets around town. He was just looking for work.

His family stayed together. He still had his faith. He was a closeted gay man that had a family. But Christianity, the place that was supposed to have given him a soft bed to Landon, who's supposed to have given them the opportunity to fall into grace, just destroyed him. And cast him out and just didn't care. Just didn't care what happened to them.

And I don't know what happened to him. I don't know what happened after that. But you could just see that like a life and several lives around them were destroyed because of people's disappointment or whatever. I don't know who should be in leadership or who shouldn't be in leadership. I don't think that having a personal failing is grounds to take somebody's leadership away from them. I think having a personal failing

is actually a way that you can connect with someone that's in a leadership position. If you're not praying on your church parishioners, if you're not leveraging your power inside of a place to victimize the people inside of there, I think leaders come in all forms and fashions and I think to say that someone isn't fit for leadership because they made a human mistake is actually counterintuitive

to what Christianity really is, right? I mean, like, I do. I think you can lead in a different way. I don't think that leaders have to be pure. I didn't say that. I didn't say that. Well, that's what it, that's why. Because the new, I would be expecting them to be perfect.

What I'm saying is leading a church in that way is different. I didn't say you should, like, you can be a leader in other ways. I totally condemn them kicking him out of the church, removing his entire well, being from him, everything that he was taught. Because it's hypocrisy. It contradicts the teachings of the very, of the church. But I don't necessarily mean that, I think it's a distraction, right? I'm not saying he couldn't come back to that place.

I just think Carl Lentz or even Copeland, for this matter, I don't want to speak too much on him because he died in such a tragic way, but it's a distraction to hold that leadership position when, what you did was so public. Distraction from what? From what you're doing. People are listening to you. They're paying attention to your outside life.

This is what comes right into the, what does my private life have to do with my holy life? I'm looking at you, and at the moment, that's all I can think of. I'm not saying I can't come back from that, but it is a distraction. Take a step down. I think as a leader you would want to take a step down

because you are a distraction. I think you can lead in other ways. Eventually, you might come back. I agree with you, what you're saying about, I think I said on this podcast. I went to a church, not Concord, because I don't want anybody to confuse it to Pastor Carter, but I grew up in a church in West Dallas, the pastor impregnated a woman, and while his wife was there. And I'll never forget it at 10 years old. And the church was split on whether he should stay or he should go. And by one

vote, they removed him from his position. He decided to leave from then on and start his own church. but as I got older, I understood that. Right. The wife, the mistress, the baby sitting off. It's just a distraction. Once again, in that situation, and I'm not sure if it might have been somebody that worked in a church for Ted Hacker too.

Once again, in that situation, if you are having sex with people that are in the church and you are leveraging your power as a pastor, I think inside of any place that you work, if you're leveraging your power to fuck on it, interns and fuck on the parishioners and do all of that, that's different. I think if you have an affair outside of your marriage, I think that people have to be willing to listen to all types of testimonies. And the testimony can't just be, hey, this is what you do to be a better person.

This is what you do to worship God. The testimony also has to be, I'm your leader. I failed myself. I failed you. And let me tell you why that's something that can work for your life. Like being an example, is not just being an example of being perfect. Correct. Being an example is being an example of being human. And I think a lot of times, I only get into a whole religious thing, but a lot of the reason why people have turned their backs

on Christianity or any sort of thing that asks you to live your life to a standard is because they don't think that they can. And they think that... And they don't want to be judged. It's very judgmental. And they don't want to lose. And so to me,

I actually think I look at these things in a different way because I look at these people as people created by God and not gods to other people. I do too. I don't look at pastors as gods. I learn that at a very young age. Yeah.

But look, here's the deal. This is what I'll say. To 1819 news and to this guy, Craig Munger, fuck you guys. And I hope that in some kind of way you pay. Like, I hope in some kind of way you pay. The gentleman's name is at Craig Monger.

Craig Monger 1819, you can find them on Twitter. Don't save your shame. This was just egregious in the worst way. I think it's fucking terrible. All right, we got to go. What a weird show. Here's the thing, guys. Fuck it.

That's what I'll say. Fuck it. Rache is still on a BravoCon high. No, I'm not. Yes, you are. Maybe a little bit. Yes, you are. So what are you going to do now that BravoCon is over? Do you have anything else to live for? Wow. I'm sure I could find some things to live for.

I have a big luncheon this week that I'm planning with the Alzheimer's Association to talk about preventative measures and getting people who have relatives that are affected. or even friends that are affected by this disease because it really impacts a lot of people to get them more comfortable of talking about it, creating a community within ourselves, and then doing some of those preventative measures such as brain health things that you could do. We're having a panel to talk about it. You know what you could do? What? For Alzheimer's?

You can eat eggs. Okay, well, great. That's one. You can eat eggs help you from getting it. But I think that they're going to figure it out pretty soon. There's a lot of developing research on it. So that's a big luncheon that we're having. Are you a shill of Big Pharma?

No, those two do not equate to each other. Oh, definitely when Alzheimer's gets... No, I mean my luncheon. Sorry. Is it sponsored by Big Pharma? No, it's not sponsored by Big Pharma. Sponsored by the Alzheimer's Association. I like a lot.

But Big Pharma cures this disease. I'm not bad. I'm fucking with Big Pharma. I'm shilling like crazy. I have seen the impact. And that's what I should also add. It's also about people have to be caretakers because it is so difficult to be a caretaker of someone suffering from

dementia and also. Everyone who's out there doing that, shout out to you guys. It's tough. It is very tough. All right, we're out of here. Take 10 caps off and not stop learning on Van Lee's dream. I'm Rachel and Lindsey. I'm Rachel and Lindsey.

Bye.