Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - BLM's Newest Supporter: Kyle Rittenhouse. Plus: Michael Tubbs on Democratic Messaging | Higher Learning | The Ringer

Episode Date: November 23, 2021

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay react to Kyle Rittenhouse’s recent comments to Tucker Carlson (11:25), claims of sexism lobbied at the film ‘King Richard’ (26:42), and Idris Elba playing a Bond villain and not the man himself (38:14). Plus, Michael Tubbs, author and former mayor of Stockton, CA, joins the show to discuss his book ‘The Deeper the Roots’ and why Democrats are losing the messaging battle (48:36).  Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Producers: Trudy Joseph and Donnie Beacham Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Our learning is on. Is I Van Lathen? And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. Rachel and Lindsay, Van Lytton Jr., it's me. Rachel, how was your weekend? I mean, I worked all day yesterday.

I had to do the American Music Awards. AMAs? AMAs. You should have called it the BTSs. It was all about BTS last night. All about. This is amazing. Well, let's face it.

They're BTS is awesome. BCS is great. And they were so happy to be there and just had the best time at the show. They were fantastic. What did I do Saturday? Saturday. They sing like niggas. I mean,

I don't know about all that, but they were. They sing like niggas. Like when you listen to BTS, I heard some BTS and I was like, oh, shit. I mean, they move. They move. Like, they, they, they, they, they don't,

it doesn't bother me though. Like, it's people say, all the time. It comes to people to say, hey, it's appropriation. It's appropriation. I don't know. BTS, it seems pure.

I'm not mad. They got some ag. I fuck with BTS. If they were dressing maybe a certain way and maybe like, no, like I feel like they're very much so themselves. And they,

I don't know, it was endearing to watch them standing up dancing to new kids on the block and new edition. And I don't even think they were familiar with the music. They were just happy to be there. You know what I mean? So I don't know.

There was like an innocence about it. But Saturday, I don't even remember what I was doing, but I found a good yoga spot, which I've been waiting for. I've been trying to find my L.A. spot for yoga, meditation. And I did. Great spot. Where is it at? It's in West Hollywood. It's called Arthur. It's called Arthur. Is it, is it Bickram Yoga? Is it the regular yoga? Okay. Nobody calls it Bickram Yoga anymore after the documentary. It's just hot yoga. Can I be honest with you? Can be honest with you? What?

Didn't he invent it though? Isn't it like, you know? No, he stole a lot of what he did. He just put his last name on it. You got what? I watched the documentary. The documentary was wild, man. He's a fraud.

That nigga was going crazy. It was, it was gross. He was like, and he was like super slippery. Like he had. Slimy. Slimy. Yeah. Slimy.

Oh, but he's still doing his thing. In Mexico, though, I think. Yeah, he still, no, Spain. Spain, they were saying. Spain, okay. Well, it might have been Spain or Mexico, but yeah. So it's not big room. It's hot yoga now.

It's hot yoga. Not really. Not really. It's not hot. It's not really. Not like that. But, yeah, found my spot. Really like it.

So that was good. I mean, it was a work week. What about you? What did you do? I'll never do hot yoga again. Because if I want to see Jesus, I'll go to church. I'm not getting in the room again. that that's hot and trying to hold some shit, sweat dripping out of my goddamn soul,

I'll never, ever, ever, ever, ever do it again. So just do regular yoga. I give you a guest pass. That's hard enough, by the way. That's hard. You know, my back. Yeah. My back.

Okay. But it's hard for you. This weekend, it didn't do much. I have a ridiculous franchise going right now. on Madden. So it's taking up a lot of my time. So I have a franchise going on Madden right now. And so this is what happened.

Last year, I made a mistake during my franchise on Madden. I'm playing all the games because you know what a franchise is, right? So I'm playing the seasons as it really, and I'm in control of everything, Rachel. Okay. Yes. In real life, I know what a franchise is. But okay, I didn't realize you could do that on Madden.

Franchise mode on the game. So franchise mode is Rachel. I'm Sky. I'm scouting college players, okay? That's too much time. No wonder you're busy. That takes up way too much. You can stop there.

You're scouting college players? Yes. Can I finish telling you about my child's bowl, please? So I'm scouting college players, all right? I'm coaching up the staff. Wow. I'm signing guys. I'm releasing guys.

I'm trading guys. Every single week I have meetings with my offensive and defensive coordinators. I meet with start. This would star teammates. I fucking star players, I mean. I challenge them to do different things. And if they get those things done,

I get experience points, boosts. I talk to the media as coach Sean Payton of the New Orleans Saints. Like I'm deep into the fantasy of franchise mode. Now here's what happened last time. So I was in the playoffs of my franchise last time and I had James Winston and all these guys or whatever. And I made a mistake and simulated the game.

game against the Green Bay Packers. Don't even know what I was thinking and we lost. So we got knocked out of the playoffs. So this is a brand new season. But I made a mistake and I simulated the off season. And then like I lost a whole bunch of players. So I had to build back through the draft. I had to build back better.

Build back better. We got Michael Tubbs a little bit later on. Michael Tubbs, former mayor of Stockton later on, on Higher Learning is going to talk about the Democrats, his new book, The Deeper the Roots, all kinds of stuff. Michael Tubbs, you're going to get smarter

if you listen today. So now I have, check out, Rachel. Now I have Cam Newton starting to my quarterback. He's having a fantastic season. He has asked of last week, yeah. I still got Alvin Camara.

I still got Cameron Jordan. I still got a lot of players and we're on a march. We are undefeated. We're on the Marshall Super Bowl. That's why I did this week. I'm upset that Madden has you out here thinking you're somebody that you ain't.

Not true. And I want to know how many other people have to go through this. He's got you thinking you're a coach, a GM, an owner, a DC, an OC, a starter. I mean, I'm a quarterback, I'm a halfback, I'm a receiver, I'm all of those things. Michael Thomas is leading the league in offense. Alvin Camara ran for 300 yards just before I did this podcast. He was the NFC offensive player of the week.

He's leading right now. He's leading right now in MVP votes. It's too much. This gamer's world is too much. Now I can see how people can't separate real life from the game. If you're investing that much time in detail and attention into a world that does not exist, I can see why you don't want to pull yourself out of it and come into this world.

After we get off the podcast, I'm going to scout some more. You're going back. See what I'm saying? I get scouting points after every match. after every game. I need to scout some more college players. You're going to start talking about your team, but thinking it's real life.

You're going to talk about what the Saints did, and they'll be like, man, that actually did not happen. James is hurt. And you can be like, no, no, no, no,

like he threw for five touchdowns last week. Watch. You need to step back, my friend. You need to step back. Actually, I hate when people say that. Step back. I hate when people say my friend.

The real saints no longer interest me. The Madden Saints. Oh. the Madden Saints have taken over. Oh. Okay. I can't control what the Saints do.

They fuck around and go out and get blasted yesterday. I can't control that. I can't control what LSU does. Like 27 to 14 against lowly ULM. I can control this franchise and I will control it.

Oh my gosh. Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness and swelling. Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimphaya, gusalcomab, taken by injection, is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaques psoriasis, who may benefit from taking injections or pills or

phototherapy, and for adults with active psoriotic arthritis. Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur. Before a treatment, your doctor should check you for infections in tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimfaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimfaya, including important safety information.

The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul Predict. Predict the spread, total points, and even the game winner. Sign up and get a $25 bonus. Offered by Fandual Prediction Markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant. 18 plus. Bonus is non-withdrawable and expires seven days after receipt. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool.

Restrictions apply. See terms at fandual.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. What happened? Did anything interesting happen at the American Movie Musical? Yes. I forgot about the most interesting part, which is why I was there. Most people were there to see a J-Lo performance or, you know, Olivia Rodriguez,

Rachel was there to see new kids on the block and New Edition. They titled it, The Battle of Boston, which I did not realize New Edition was from Boston. I thought they were from New York. I don't know. Really?

Yeah, it never, and I've seen, like, the VH1 story they did. I don't know why. In my mind, they were from New York. New Edition and New Edition and New Kids on the Block had the same management.

Didn't know that. They, New Edition came, and then they were like, we're going to go get some white boys. And then they went and got new kids on the boy. Smart, but had no idea. So they themed it as this battle. But like when I was interviewing them on the carpet, they were like, we've been friends for years.

They're like our brothers. It's a brotherhood. So I was so excited to meet new kids on the block. Then to be there with new addition. I mean, I just like schoolgirl crush to be standing there talking to like Ralph Tresman and, you know, Johnny Gills there. and fell in Dubot and even old Bobby Brown. Bobby Brown was there.

Bobby Brown came and did the carpet and none of like pre-show without new addition. And I said, you know Bobby probably was like, I'm going to go run to the bathroom and came out and did the carpet, red carpet all by himself, no new edition. And then they came afterwards

and did the walk behind the stage. But anyways, it was great. They performed separately, this versus that. And then they came together. they saying is this the end and please don't go girl and then they did the is it love together and the choreograph dance I mean I was backstage

I was so upset because I thought I wouldn't get the whole group got to meet the whole group did a little of the dancing behind the stage showing them what I was doing but you know it's fun they're going back on tour here's the thing I can have the battle for Boston if they want but there's no

comparison between the new kids on the block and new addition But it wasn't. It was, I guess it depends. But I'll tell you what, you knew that when you watched it. And New Kids on the Block started singing Hang Tough. And they were like, and they were like, get on down with the new kid sound. I was like, I love him.

Please don't Go Girl was a joint, though. Please don't go, girl was a joint. So was the right stuff, though. The right stuff was cool to. Oh, come on. But what was the other one they came back with? they came back with another one. Nah, I can't remember.

But like, I'll tell you this. I've been listening to a lot of boys to men lately, and that's what's going to be Vans' very serious question of the week later. Oh. Speaking of boy bands. Okay. So here's the deal. We have to start the show.

You know, we have an amazing interview coming up with Michael Tubbs, former mayor of Stockton, who has a new book out called The Deep of the Roots. Okay. I think Michael Tubbs is one of the brightest political minds in all of America. And I'm watching his future with great interests. And he is here. He is here to talk to us today.

You're going to get smarter by listening to this. But before we get to this, I got good news. And what's that? There's a new member of BLM. BLM has a new member. Then continue. Continue. Kyle Rittenhouse says,

he supports BLM. Okay. He has an interview coming up with none other than Tucker Carlson. And he said this during the interview. This case had nothing to do with race, had to do with the right to self-defense. Writtenhouse 18 said to Fox News host Tucker Carlson. I am not a racist person.

I support the BLM movement and peacefully demonstrating. Your thoughts. So I laugh, but it's, it's really not funny. I think that what Kyle Rittenhouse is doing is compiling his reasoning for being there that night with the case, two separate issues, right? Self-defense is what you pled in your case. That was your defense for what you did, your actions. But self-defense had nothing to do with your reasoning for being there that night.

for those protests. And the reason that you came there was not in support of Black Lives Matter. And the fact that you're trying to bring those two together is disgusting. Because you came there not in support of BLM. If you came there in support for Black Lives Matter, then you would have been marching with the very people that you shot down. You would have been there against what happened in Kenosha and standing up for the Black lives that were affected by the shooting of Jacob Blake. But instead, you strapped up with surgical gloves. Basically there, I don't know what, to defend stores, to defend black people marching for Black Lives Matters,

to defend yourself against that. I mean, at least that's what you're saying in the case for the case. It's disgusting to me that he's even trying to say that. And I hate that that was even a topic that was discussed in this interview. It's gross. And it's making a mockery, really, of everything. that's happening because we know that you don't support Black Lives Matter at all. So I don't think that he was saying that he support, he was supporting Black Lives Matter

by going to the demonstration. I think what he was saying was that he supports the Black Lives Matter movement and peacefully protesting, although this wasn't a peaceful protest. So that's why he went out there. But he didn't know that when he was getting there, when he went there. He didn't know if it was peaceful or not. well what do you mean the reports were coming out about what the protest was anyway right and there had been other pro even if he didn't know by the way i'm not in any way defending i know i know i know even if they even if there even if they there weren't um any reports coming out of connocia that night you'd still have enough we had seen kind of how things had gone for the entire summer to know that some people were going to be on edge about whether or not things were going to happen like that in connocia i mean that wasn't it I assumed that that night in Kenosha there would be some civil disobedience, which I support.

Right. But I just think it's making a mockery of the situation for him to say that he supports Black Lives Matter. I don't think anything that Kyle Rittenhouse has shown us in his social media behavior and his behavior thereafter these murders was in support of Black Lives Matter. And the fact that he's saying that now is gross. Well, I think I know why he's doing it. Well, I know why he's doing it. Yeah. Right.

Well, that's the reason. So, like, Kyle Rittenhouse has now have to go live in the world. Now, here's the thing. Everybody should be ready for as far as it relates to Kyle Rittenhouse. Number one, he is about to be ungodly wealthy. Uh-huh. He is going to make a shit ton of money for killing two people. Kyle Rittenhouse is about to make a lot of money.

He's going to do tons of interviews. He is going to. write a book. He is going to get news coverage, the Daily Caller, the Blaze, Prager You, Fox News, Newsmax, some person,

some entity is going to invest into the Kyle Rittenhouse fame. So that's probably going to happen. But more than that, or excuse me, aside from that, Kyle Rittenhouse now has to live in the world. And he has to live in the world

in a different way than even a George Zimmerman does. Joe Zimmerman's a grown-ass man who go into a bunker and hide and do all of that stuff and never come out and whatever. Kyle Rittenhouse is going to want to go to parties. He's 18 years old. He's going to want to go to parties. He's going to want to go to bars. He's going to want to go to spring break.

He's going to want to go all of these different places. And it's going to be difficult for him to do so as a kid. like he is now, a man like he is now with people believing what it is that they believe about Kyle Rittenhouse. He's now become the poster child, if you will, for not only American injustice, but white vigilanteism. And so what you're going to see as the book comes, as all of these other things come, is Kyle Rittenhouse try to rehabilitate his image

so that he can live what he thinks or what other people might consider to be a normal life in American society. So he's going to say, hey, I'm okay with, I wouldn't surprise if you see Kyle Rittenhouse with the black squares. Kyle Rittenhouse with a Coupion. No, stop.

I'm just saying he's going to, he wants to be able to be on TikTok and be on all of that stuff. And so my thing is, we might have not, we might not have been able to control what went on in the courtroom that day. No one could. We might not have been able to control the circumstances

that actually led to Kyle Rittenhouse being in the situation where he could claim self-defense. But as a society, we can control this. We can control whether or not he is allowed to, rehabilitate his image, whether or not he's allowed to move on like this never happened, whether or not he's able to put everything behind him and go on and be a normal kid, right? Like, because he obviously didn't want to be a normal kid before, which is why he got the gun

and goes out there and does whatever he wanted to do. Say it on his social media. He wanted to be famous. So this is something that you can't control. And the fact that he said this to me lets me know that he's breaking. that there's a part of this situation that he really doesn't, he might not want the smoke

of being the poster child for white vigilanteism for the rest of his life. But he shouldn't have a choice in that. And he should, and so that's all I'm saying. What I'm saying is, I don't think he,

I don't think, I don't think anyone believes that Kyle Rittenhouse supports Black Lives Matter. Sure. But I think in the interviews that you see now, a lot of the interviews

that you see from him, he's going to try to put as much distance from himself and the guy that he really is, the guy that he was being when he was posing with the proud boys in a bar and doing all of that stuff as humanly possible. So I think the image of Kyle Rittenhouse is fractured. Kyle Rittenhouse, I don't think that he can rehabilitate himself in society where he's able to function in a world and win over the side that he's trying to by making a statement of saying, I support Black Lives Matter.

I don't think anybody believes him, and I don't think anybody ever will. He has cemented himself in history as the person that we saw commit those murders, injure someone else, and stand in that trial. I think the only way he's going to be rehabilitated, and I'm using air quotes for the people who are just listening to this podcast, is by putting himself in that world that supported what he did. he is not going to be able to bring over the you the me's the any the supporters of black lives matter the allies that there'll be some black people though that forgive them though candace can'tas yeah sure no no no no no the people that hug the lady that shot both of

john the people that pray for dylan ruff after he goes into the church and shoots up a book there will be a bunch of people that will but not to where it makes not to where it makes a dent And I want to remind people not to let it happen. And I don't think it will. And I think, honestly, I'm actually shocked that he came out and said that that soon. See, to me, it would be best if you just lay low for a second instead of hopping on the media train. And let's be honest, he went on Tucker Carlson's broadcast to do this, his show to do this. That doesn't win him any favors with the other side.

So I think that what he's going to do is try to normalize his. life in that world. He will be a hero in that world. He will live in that space and he will continue to he said what he needed to say or what he felt he needed to say. I'm a supporter. I'm in support of Black Lives Matter. And that's it. I don't think he's going to try to win the other side over at all. This is it. I think Kyle is going to be, as you said, a hero, a rich super hero, lotted as a person who's, you know, stood his ground and defended himself. against the radicals, and that's it. That's the life he's going to live.

He may. And I would have, I would have agreed with your take on it until I saw this. There's just no reason to say, hey, I support Black Lives Matter. Like, even if he says, even if he says, hey, and it worries me when they come back like that. It worries me because, like, nothing wears out faster than rage. you just can't be ray you can't be you can't have like for example George Zimmerman goes around does whatever he does whatever he wants to do he just walks around he killed Trayfarm Martin but I don't like rage rage rage

won't rage doesn't last like and so in this particular situation what do you expect what I mean what I expect I expect to be mad at these niggas forever no no no no George Zimmerman you bring up George Zimmerman like he's walking around around like it didn't happen. Kyle's going to do the exact same thing. But it'll be different, though, because these people are at different points in their life. So George Zimmerman is at a point in his life to where there's a lot of stuff that he does, he's not going to want to do anymore that this kid will.

This kid's still going to want to have his 20s. And he's going to. He's still going to want to. I don't. In that world. And so maybe he will. But remember now, like, so put you like this. That world exists.

But there is a much, much bigger world that most kids his age are going to want to be a part of too. And I wouldn't have thought any of this stuff about Kyle Red House. How did he not say what he said? I would have thought, hey, this is a person that I doubled down after he did what he did. This is a person that did whatever. He's off the hook legally. But I'm telling you, the only thing I'm saying is this. This is him trying to crawl back.

Just don't let him crawl back. Can I ask you, I'm sorry. What, what, because I keep saying he is going to be able to live the life he wants to live in that world because that's the world I think he wants to be a part of. He has no desire to be a part of the world that's in support of Black Lives Matter. That's my opinion. And so it's like, what is he going to miss out on? Like what? In his 20s, going to going out to bars, going to concerts.

I'm sure there's somebody that somebody who's going to have him on stage. he'll still get to go front road of things. I don't think it'll leave it'll take him from, stop him from getting a job, stop him from getting in the college, stop him from going to party, stop him from going on spring break, that he's going to live the life that he wants to with those type of people,

like-minded people in that world. He'll live a different life, a life maybe, having been the age of I am right now, I don't think Kyle Rittenhouse actually understands how restrictive the life that he is going to live now is. If Kyle Rittenhouse goes to college, that's going to be a story

for any university that takes Kyle Rittenhouse. Right. That's going to be a story. Kyle Rittenhouse plays a fraternity. When he gets to college, that's going to be a story.

Whatever fraternity Kyle Rittenhouse pledges. The woman who is updating Kyle Rittenhouse, that's going to be a story. She's going to have to be okay with being famous now

with everything that's going on. Like any job that hires him, let's say he doesn't go into the media. Kyle Rittenhouse, the accountant, is hired at the accounting. He'll be the accountant for turning point.

Like all of these things. What I'm telling you is that there's a life. I understand what you're saying. And there's definitely a group of people that are going to always worship him as a hero. Right. But then there's also a downside to this. And my only point in bringing any of this up is that like the downside should exist in perpetuity. I agree.

The downside should never. go away. I personally believe that there's only one thing that you can do that if people want to be mad at you forever, with two things, the people you can do, that people, if people want to be mad at you forever, they can't be. Like Kyle Rittenhouse went out there, took two lives, the two lives that he took in the way that he did it, the age that he was, it should never not be a part of his life. And what I'm telling you right now is when I look at this statement, he's endeavoring to distance himself from the person that we all thought he was. And there'll be,

and there could be heavy rehabilitation stuff that goes on there. Like heavy rehabilitation stuff that goes on there. I just want people to remember. That's it. I think it'll be interesting to watch and see because I think he just was making this as a one-time statement. You think that this is him trying to crawl back. It'll be, we'll watch.

We'll see. We'll see what he does. Well, yeah. I just don't see why you would say that if you're him. I think he just needed to say it one time. Yeah, well, I'll be interested in what and what goes on. Because remember, after Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin, all Zimmerman did was double down. Right.

All he did was double down. He did. All he did was double down. Okay. New York senators introduce a bill to ban prosecutors from using rappers' lyrics as evidence in court. Fuck that topic. Moving on. Oh, I'm into this.

What? Did you see the movie King Richard? I didn't watch it yet. Did you? Didn't watch it. I didn't watch it either. I knew you didn't. I just, it's, I got a, I got a de-willify.

Maybe I'll watch it on vacation. I got to de-willify for a second. Too much from the Smith family? A little bit. Hard to watch King Richard now and not think about, you know. That damn. Alcina. Jada.

You know. Yeah. It's like, I got a, it's, I got a. I got de-willify for a second. I will see the movie. I got to de-wif. Honestly, it snuck up on me. I didn't realize it came out this quickly.

Well, so did August Salsina. You snuck up on Will. Will didn't see it coming. That was just James' friend. Next thing you know. Yeah, you're really not ready to watch the movie. Because of what you just did. No, my mind didn't go there.

Yeah, you're not ready. Go ahead. Snuck up on him. Tell them what's going on. Hey, why are you making an extra stack of pancakes? Oh, August is how. having breakfast with us. He is? Yeah. And then he walks out of Jada's bedroom. And Willa's like, why? He's not in Jaden's room. What's going on? This is like extra syrup. Put some little cayenne pepper,

a little Tony Sasseries from some New Orleans on the pancakes. It's not bad, by the way. You put a little Tony's on your pancakes. It's actually not bad. So people have been talking about the movie, King Richard. King Richard is about Richard Williams, who's the father of Venus and Serena Williams. and at least early in their lives was the driving force in pushing them towards tennis greatness. People have been saying, this is sexist to have the movie be about him and not be about Venus and Serena Williams.

I will give you a tweet by Dr. Jessica Taylor. Did they seriously make a film called King Richard about the success of Serena and Venus Williams, but it's about their dad, Richard? Okay. There was also another article that came out on Slate that questioned making a movie about this topic and not centering the movie on Serena Williams,

who might just be the greatest athlete of all time, and Venus Williams, who was a fantastic top 10, top five, former number one tennis player in the world in her own right. Question, we know that Venus and Serena are executive producers on this, movie. So they wanted to make a movie about their dad. My question to you, Rachel,

is what if they weren't? What if I wanted to make a movie, right? About Richard Williams, moving his daughters to Compton, putting the rackets in their head, instilling confidence in them, and birthing a tennis revolution. Would that be sexist to make the movie about Richard

and not about Venus and Serena? Well, it depends how, far the movie goes, right? If that's what the, if that's the premise of your movie where it's about their upbringing and how they became who they are today, then what's the problem with that? What's the problem in highlighting somebody they look up to who help them become as great as they are, who push them? What's wrong with telling that story? And, and I'm trying to talk about this and separating the fact that they're executive producers because the fact that they are just, just blows this, this argument out of the water for me. It's like,

like their executive producers, they're behind it. They were very involved with this. They okayed this. They walked the red carpet. They did interviews. They wanted to be the face of this. They wanted to tell the story of not just about them and their father, but their other sisters, right? My friend played the sister who has passed away in the movie.

And so it's like it was more than that. So I just, if you were, if you wanted to make a movie about their father and bring up their upbringing, I don't see a problem with that. I did see some talk, though, that people were also disappointed because it only showed one side of Richard. And they're like, if you're going to talk about Richard, you need to tell the other side and how he was as a man and a husband, not just as a father. And I guess I can see a little bit of that. But again, this is Venus and Serena's story. They don't need to necessarily air out their father's business when it comes to how he was as a husband. That's not the story they wanted to tell.

and it's absolutely their right to do that. Now, if you were making this moving and you were talking about him and their upbringing, then I would say that you would need to include the other side of that. Well, I completely disagree with that because no one ever does that. I'm just saying.

In Selma, did they show Dr. King fucking all the women and he did. He liked to, you have a look on your face. They never do that. So every time, every time, Martin Luther King and King Richard, I guess two different stories. There is absolutely, I just need people to be consistent.

There's absolutely zero difference. The question, the question fundamentally is when you make a biopic about someone, which is one of the reasons why there hasn't been a biopic made about Dr. King, that when you make a biopic about someone, do you include all of the parts of their life, or do you include what's pertinent to the thematic power of the story that you're making? because the reality is if you include the ugly, dirty,

gritty side of people's lives, a lot of these biopics are going to be hard to watch. A lot of them will be. Like, a lot of them. You know what I mean? So the only reason why I bring up Dr. Key is not to equate him to to, no, I didn't. I just brought it up as an example.

It's not to equate him to Richard Williams. It's to say that that never happens anyway. Like they don't do that. It happens. It's not a never. Only if it's pertinent to the story. Like you can't make a song, you can't make a, you can make a movie about Ray Charles without without including his heroin situation. They, or him being, they talked about him being a womanizer.

They included in his head. But that's part of his musician type of thing. You know what I mean? They could have easily told his story without showing him going home with all the women filling those wrists. They couldn't have to do all that. But the point is the type of story that they're telling and the type of situation, that they're telling, that's a part of it.

Like that adds to his sort of bad boy musician. It's dramatically along the lines of it. Look what he's overcome. If the movie is about Richard Williams getting his daughters ready to be tennis champions, what does him be in a bad husband have to do with it? See, well, here's the thing. Neither one of us have seen it, right?

So I don't know how much it delves into family life and the relationship that he had with their mother. I don't know. I'm only basing this off. of an article that I saw. So I don't know if it talks about that. So it's hard for me to say maybe it should have been included

because I don't know really the premise of the movie. I don't know how much it goes into their upbringing and the familial bond that they had. I don't know. Well, see, my thing is, I would like to see it included. I love to see stuff like that. Yeah, you're messy. I would love to make a movie about Dr. King

and show that Dr. King was just a man who did extraordinary things. But people can't handle that. They don't want to believe. They don't want to know the truth about certain people. And that's not, it's not just him, by the way.

It would be almost any person that would be in that situation when you pair them down, they're not perfect. So showing him, but to make up, to bring up that like you should include the fact that he was a bad, a bad husband in this, it's just the biggest fucking deflection. They never do that.

Like, unless it serves the story, the purposes of their story. They never do that. And this isn't about that. Like, it's not about that. Like, have you ever, have you ever in,

in movie history, seen a love scene between JFK and Marilyn Monroe? No. But I don't know. Are there, is there, I don't know what movie is JFK.

Is there a biopic on JFK? You know, I mean, JFK has been, JFK has been depicted in so many films. But is there like one movie that's like the life of JFK?

There are a couple different. Like Martin Sheen has played JFK. What's his name played JFCK in 13 days? But what I'm telling you is- Not played him. I'm talking about like all an entire movie about him and his life. That's what I'm asking.

Because then I'm like, well, maybe they would. There has been, but you don't even necessarily need that. What I'm saying is that's something that everybody knows happened. But normally when you're telling the story of the president, you're not really telling the story about his personal life. you're telling the story about accomplishments that he had, like when he was doing his thing,

you know what I mean? When he was out here, Cuban missile crisis, civil rights and all of that stuff. Yeah, I'm not saying that they should have necessarily included it because, again, I have to see it.

Then I will have an opinion on that. But that is an article that I saw that I was like, huh, that's interesting. People are really, I'm also shocked that people were so upset that he was portrayed a certain way. I don't know why people were,

wanted to make him evil is what it seemed like. Well, he was a wild boy. Okay, but, you know. But they, you know. But that, but this is their, this is how they wanted to honor their dad. So to me, that shuts everything else up. Who were we to tell Venus and Serena how to make this movie about their father? This is my whole point and the thing that's starting to bother me.

Why look at the King Richard movie and pick it apart? for something negative. This lady, Dr. Jess Taylor, Dr. Jessica Taylor, she has a right to her opinion, but she got too much dip on a chip. She do. She got too much dip on a chip, man.

She got way too much dip on a chip. Ain't nobody asked, and this is kind of when intersectionality fails. We talking about a movie about a black father and his black daughters and what went wrong. Ain't nobody asked you to,

jump into this situation, this family business and talk about all of this. This is like them making a movie about their dad. Like we're going to, we're going a little too far. Too far. Too far. Too far. Okay. It's Richard Williams.

By the way, I don't even fuck Rich Williams like that. It always seemed weird to me. That's not to be mean, but it's always, you know, he always seemed, you know, always seem weird to me. But I'm glad that there, because I thought that they were all estranged. I'm glad that they still have an amazing enough relationship with their day to do it. Now I'm a bike a movie movie. about me and my dad and I'm not going to

sugarcoat anything. It's going to be the real raw Van Terry Lathen, Sr. Yeah. Okay. He wouldn't have wanted it any other way. He doesn't care. He would have wanted it. It's going to be all out there. The movies are going to be made in the next year and it's going to be about me and dad and all the shit.

I can't wait. I bet I wish one of you motherfuckers would tell me about the portrayal of my father in a movie. How dare y'all with y'all fucking Twitter fingers, man. Please, how dare you? Jesus fucking. Idriselba is going to be in the name's next James Bond movie,

but he is not going to be playing James Bond. Yeah, he already said that. What's the point? What's the point of what? You want him to be Bond? Of course. So, I interviewed. Etrus.

And of course, at the time, it was all about, are you going to be in Bonner? You're going to be Bonn? And I thought he had a very interesting response because he talked about Luther. And he said he always looked at a Luther on that level. Like when you think of, wow. You just go laugh at Eders like that.

What? Can I finish? He always looked at Luther as on one level. Not necessarily as the bond, but he was more so explaining it, like, you've got your Jason Bourns. Like, there's like, there's like movies and it's like it's an ongoing story is what I'm trying to say. Not that Luther is Bond, okay?

Chill out. I wasn't saying that. No. But you didn't let me finish. You said, you literally started laughing when I said it. And I'm paraphrasing, but mind you, I paraphrasing. The statement was I always looked at Luther as being on that level. But I'm paraphrasing and I'm saying like, as in like there's the Luther story.

There's the born. story, there's the bond. And so he looked at it like that in the sense that if he goes and does bond, he feels like it takes away from what he was doing with Luther and how he's thought of that character. So I thought that that was like a really interesting statement. And so it makes sense, though, if that's his mindset, because he wants to make a movie or they are already talking about a movie or they've started a movie with Luther, one of those things. If that's how he sees Luther and that character and he wants it to live that way, then it makes no sense for him to do Bond. So I already understood that. But the fact that he's still a part of the iconic franchise

of Bond, but now he gets to be his own character within it, great for Idress. I'll be watching. Be the first time I've seen a Bond movie. Good for him. It's going to laugh. It's going to laugh at him like that. Well, I mean, the fact that, look, here's the thing. It was just funny to hear you know, Luther's on the same level. Well, you said, well, I didn't. I don't. I don't. I All I heard, I thought that that was the period. He's like, I look at Luther as being on that same level. I'm like, Luther's great. Don't get me wrong.

I'm paraphrasing, but you get my point as I continue what I was saying. I get the point. And if he doesn't want to be James Bond, he doesn't want to be James Bond. I personally think he should be James Bond just for the whole culture. Because I feel like if they don't get him, then we don't really have. He also said he doesn't want to be a black bond. He doesn't want to be the black bond He said that

Well he doesn't have to be the black bond He can just be James Bond But that's what everybody will refer to him as And he said he didn't want that That's fine That we could do that for anything Listen he just can be whoever he wants to be I don't want to be the black president

I don't want to be the black We could do that for anything The fact of the matter is James Bond Is a dude from England Who his race doesn't really matter He does cool shit And it'll be nice to see You know what give it to Def Patel

Deft will do it he's fucking amazing give it to death but tell but it's just funny to hear i don't need bond because i got luther and luther is his own thing and i applaud that if he feels that way that's dope shout out to errone garrick garrut luther is his own thing and i applaud that but you know that was just funny to hear it it's funny i'm glad you got a good laugh out of it let's take a break did you know about one and three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriatic arthritis which causes joint pain stiffness and swelling Does this sound like you?

Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimphaya, gusalcomab, taken by injection, is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy, and for adults with active psoriotic arthritis. Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur. Before a treatment, your doctor should check you for infections in tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away.

Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimfaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimfaya, including important safety information. This episode is brought to by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and make it a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer, unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner. Or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream.

cream drips, yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. Justin Timberlake is back in the crosshairs. It's been a decade since he hung Janet Jackson out to dry at the Super Bowl. And now the documentary has premiered

The people are fucking over JT again Okay Really what happened Was after this situation happened Les Moonvez Who was running CBS at the time Made it his goal to destroy Janet Jackson's career Yeah

Justin I guess called Les MoonVez during that time And cried to him and they were cool But Justin never really stayed solid with Janet And this documentary has come out And people are upset about it again. Will the culture ever get over this and let J.T.

live? I'm sick of the story. I really am. Oh my gosh. What is wrong with you? That's funny. Rache, you all just saying, do you understand that my favorite

version of Rache is just casual Rache? Like I had a hot dog at a place called Earls Like that's my favorite version of Rach My favorite version is I don't give a fuck man I don't care like I'm sick of this story That's my favorite rage right there

But I am I'm so it's like it doesn't matter how many ways You cut it okay He threw Janet under the bus He didn't stand up for her Obviously this is a pattern with Justin Timberlake Because he did the same thing with Brittany he did whatever he needed to do to succeed,

whether that was stepping on somebody else to get to the next place, throwing somebody under the bus, and you know what? It worked for him until it didn't. And now we're in a place where we call people out for these things. And Justin Timberlake has been called out multiple times.

And now he's apologizing for it. 17 years too late, which now your apology means nothing to me because you're only doing it to satisfy the public, the public pressure with all of it, The way you behaved then is what you meant then. You reflecting on it now is only because people are on your ass about it. I'm over it. Like we were mad at you then.

We're mad at you now. The culture will never get over it because it's Janet. It's Janet. And it is what it is. It is what it is. Well, okay. So it's very true. And I'm not saying I'm like anti-Justin.

It's just like I'll never forget. Right. I won't forget either. So I guess. my question to you is, what's up, Bozeman? I guess my question to you is, how mad are we? I get annoyed by Justin Timberley, but I still

like him, you know? Yeah, we're not mad enough to where it's like, I'm not going to listen to, you know, if he came out with the song, I'd listen to it because I'd be interested in what it sounded like out of curiosity. If I wouldn't refuse to interview him at extra, I wouldn't,

I'm not that mad, but it's almost like, I get it. I don't trust him. that makes sense? Yeah. You don't trust. That's where I am. Yeah.

Right. Right. Would you, who would you, I mean, who do you think? Justin, that's a tasteless joke. I'm not doing that. I was about to do it Justin Timberlake versus Kyle Renauds situation. Um, gosh. Social media has got to stop.

We, we like, I love it. But it's, it's fucking people's lives up. I'll tell you how. I saw a video that floored me. Floored me. Okay. Carl's bad Carl's bad

California Okay There was apparently An armored truck That was driving down The freeway And something happened And it started

Spraying money everywhere Yeah Everywhere Money flying out of the armored truck People are getting out And they're scooping up the money And there's one Stupid girl

Making a video about how crazy the scene is and how everybody's scooping up the money she's getting money people are scooping up the money when this is clearly illegal number one and number two if you don't take your tape yourself doing it then maybe you can get away with some of the cash

if it's not like sequential or numbered or whatever it is which it probably was two people were arrested and other people could face consequences after drivers stopped to scoop up cash that was blowing across lanes. This is so dumb. Has social media made us so stupid to where... Really?

Yes. This is the first stupid video you've seen. You know, you got people ratting on themselves, like posting things that they're doing illegally and thinking that it's, you know, like just for cloud or just to go viral. It's made us so stupid. but that you'll do anything for likes, for comments to go viral.

If people can just have that one video that's going to go viral, they feel like they've made it. That's it. Yes, we are that dumb as a society. I mean, our attention span lasts 15, 30 seconds. People don't read articles. They read headlines. Yes. Yes.

Sadly, man, yes. Would you have picked the money yet? Yes. 100%. 100%. Without a doubt. And I would have slapped the phone out of her hand. I'm a doubt.

I would have destroyed her phone. I'm catching two charges, baby. Assault. And pick up the money and be like, here, buy yourself a new one. Bro, by the way, that is the craziest thing. I love when gangsters do that in movies. Like, there's a scene at the beginning of the godfather where there, where the feds are outside of Vito Quilion's family because it's Connie's wedding.

And they're taking pictures and stuff. Sonny gets so pissed off. He goes out there. He breaks the camera. And then he pulls out his bankroll and throws out. the guy a couple of hundreds. I want to do that. I want to break somebody else's property

and then give them a couple of hindoes. Hey, go fix it. Or like in a movie where there's a bar fight and then the guy kicks everybody his ass in the bar and he goes, here, take that. You know what I mean? It's fun.

It's fun. But I would definitely knock the phone out of her hand, Justin Bieber style. Definitely. Definitely. Okay. Now time the guitar interview with Michael Tubbs. Former mayor of Stockton.

He has a book that's out right now called The Deeper the Roots. This interview will make you smart. Carter, please check it out. We have a very special guest on Higher Learning today, one of the brightest young minds, one of the brightest stars in the political, social, and just human world. This is a guy I've been following for a long, long time, and he threatens to shake up the entire political establishment with some of his ideas.

Former mayor of Stockton, Michael Tubbs, is on higher. learning with us today. Give it up. Now, Michael, I've known about you for a very long time. Okay. I've been following your career. You were one of the names that people would say, hey, when we look to the future as far as leading political movements, as far as being one of the young, brash Democrats that threatens to shake up the system, people always say, I always say the name Michael Tubbs is right up there at the top of the list. I got to know you even better from watching the dynamic and just dynamite HBO documentary Stockton on my mind. But now it seems as if you've taken a step away from the political arena.

And I want to start there. You're no longer mayor of Stockton. You have a fantastic book that's coming out. Where are you at right now with what it is that you're trying to do? How is Michael Tubbs trying to impact the world currently? Well, first, thank you all for having me. I appreciate the kind of words. The book is out, I should say.

The book is not coming out. The book is out. Yeah, it was out on November 16th, the deeper the roots. But no, I'm still involved in politics. But so I don't know if people have noticed like all the basic income programs happening in L.A. in Chicago and Intercity here in California. That's all the work of me and my team. Like since not being mayor of Stalkin spent the last year working with mayor throughout the country

to get more guaranteed income programs up and running to really get us. closer to a policy. Working with the governor of California, Gavin Newsom, thinking about with this record surplus, how do we make sure it helps make California golden for everyone. So still involved in politics, just more behind the scenes and trying to move policy and get more people to adopt a position that I took what I was mayor, but definitely still interesting in politics, for sure. So then the next question is, you're behind the scenes right now. Do you think you'll be back on the scene? Do we think you'll see? you run for office again?

Yeah, I mean, one of the blessings of being so young is that I have two or three different lifetimes ahead, hopefully. So I would say I'm not in a hurry to run for office like tomorrow or next year, but who's to saying the next 20, 30 years? I won't run. I guess I'm not sure. And I say that because if you had asked me last year, I would say, well, absolutely. I'm about to be mayor for life.

I'm going to be mayor again. They refer something after that. They reference it after that. So I realized that usually when I have an idea about how things work out, God generally has a different idea. So I'm wedded to sort of the type of work I want to do, but not wed it to sort of being in an office or having a certain position to do it. Now, universal basic income, I remember when I first heard about it,

it was something that I heard that were this crazy thing. They were trying to stock and they were just going to give everybody bread. It didn't matter. And I was like, well, damn, that can't possibly work. And then I started to look into it and kind of see what a transformative idea really is. And also I did some of my historical work and saw that this was something that Dr. King was in favor of this was something that wasn't quite as novel as what I thought that it was. It's just that no one had ever had the Cajun age to try it. And it was something that kind of was tied to you very early on.

Then it was something that in the presidential elections were kind of tied to Andrew Yang. Simple question is, who is the real Dundata of universal basic income? Is it you or Andrew Yang? What are your thoughts on Andrew Yang coming around and stealing your UBI swag, dog? What's up with this? Yeah, no, I think sort of I learned it from Dr. King. Thomas Payne was talking about this in 1700. So the idea is so big and he's born and win champion.

And Andrew's a friend of mine. So I must say, I was pleasantly surprised. and how his presidential campaign sort of have got more people thinking about it. But I would also say there's a difference between sort of talking about it and doing it because you don't pay a price for talking about an idea.

You get famous off that. But when you actually are implementing the idea, you have to deal with all the backlash, deal with all the disinformation, deal with all the hate. And that's why I'm now working with all these mayors to do it as well because to actually implement

it's a little bit scarier than talking about it. But he definitely was super helpful that has been an important voice about the need for basic income. Real quick follow up. What was the, what's the biggest misconception that people have about universal basic income? And what's the answer that you would give to that misconception? The biggest misconception is that people are going to take the money and not work or that somehow like 500 dollars enough to replace work when the truth is the vast majority of people who can work do work. Like if people aren't work, it's because they can afford to work because of child care.

cost or transportation costs or some other barrier or they have a disability or their stay-at-home caregivers. Like literally, this notion that people don't want to work or aren't working just isn't actually true based on data. And that's something that I didn't even know until we were doing it. And I was like, people actually work. It's not the fact, the issue that people are being paid enough for the work they do, which is different and people are just at home not working.

That's just not true. Michael, I want to take it back. You know, fans started off this podcast and interviews. introducing you as someone he's been following, someone he's familiar with. He talked about the documentary on HBO, but for our listeners who aren't as familiar with you, who don't know your story,

can you just talk a little bit about, you know, like who you are, where you come from, what, you know, inspired you to want to get involved in politics and helping people out, the community out, in UBI. You could just give us a little bit of background.

And feel free to cut me off, because I run a whole book, it's long answer, right. The deeper the root is the book. Go pick it up. In short, my name's Michael Tubbs. I was born and raised in Stockton, California. Stockton, California is home. My mom, she had me when she's a teenager.

She was a junior in high school when she was pregnant with me. And my father is still incarcerated. He's incarcerated for the vast majority of my life. So growing up sort of poverty, mass incarceration, racist teachers, bad schools, all that were things I experienced. But my mom, my aunt and grandmother, like a lot of people, people's moms, aunts, and grandmothers just refuse to take anything less than excellent or that the cycle is going to stop with them. So through their love and guidance, I was able to go to college.

I went to Stanford for four years, which was just a radically different world from Stockton. But there I learned that the things that I learned in Stockton were helpful, like how to hustle, how to have finesse, how to be response to adversity. How did I just not be afraid of working hard, not complaining all the time, not crying over a paper, right? And then after while there, I worked in the White House under President Obama, and my job was working with mayors and counties, which was funny. Because at that time, I had no intention of ever going back to Stockholm, except for like holidays. But to live there, absolutely not. And then my cousin was murdered at a Halloween house party in 2010. And it was kind of that pain, that anger, that grief that made me think about, well, all this good stuff just can't be for me.

and how it's stocking better off because I went to Stanford. And the truth is, it wasn't. Like, I wasn't doing anything to help anyone but me in my immediate family. So longer story short, that's when I decided to run for City Council. So my senior year in college, I was commuting back and forth. Stanford's about an hour and a half away. Ran for City Council, won my council seat, won the primary two weeks before graduation. So went back to school, finished all my papers and stuff, then ran again in the general election one.

So at 22 years old, I was a council member representing 50,000 people. I did that for four years. They ran for mayor of Stockton. And then the same day Donald Trump was elected, I was elected. And spent four years as mayor as mayor of Stockton, which is very interesting time. Yeah, yeah. I wouldn't take the trade off, Michael. I'll just let you know.

I'm glad you got elected, but it's not a good tradeoff right there. No, no. Trump was Trump for Tubbs. I was shook. I'm reading that election night. We were looking. Can you believe you? Let's not relive it.

Everyone was just a kick in the gut? Does anyone, we could do a whole podcast about, I remember a friend of mine went to a Hillary event. And he was like, I'm not going to lie, bro. It's not looking good in here. I'm like, what? He was like, they packing it up. We're going to lose. I'm like, no fucking way.

No possible way. It's crazy. But I just wish that I would have had like, I've been following your race because I've been like, look, at least we got Michael Tubbs. So we pull up, right? And I'm looking and we're killing it.

I'm like, like, 70% of vote. And then one of my friends who was running, he was sad because he was like, I was sad too, but he was real sad because he was like Hillary, like, was his number one political item. So he starts getting all somber. I said, listen, bro, tonight

we are going to enjoy the fact that Stockton got it right. The nation's jacked up. We'll do with the tomorrow. We cry. But tonight we, like a 26th year old black dream just won the marriage race and stopped in California. We probably enjoyed. So as I got in, I said, look, I know the nation's not looking pretty.

But tonight, for at least two hours, we're going to enjoy this moment. Because I had no idea how bad the four years would be with him as president. I knew there'd be terrible. But I had no idea just how hard it would be to govern because he was the president. And it was just, it was a real shock to the case. So recovery. So one thing that I loved about the documentary Stockton on my mind, which is on, which is on HBO, the book is, the book is, the book is, the book is, the book is, the book. But one thing I loved about watching you and all the people that were working in Stockton is just how in touch you guys seem to be.

there was a very obviously it's a community that you're familiar with you knew it very well you know the problems of the community you know the specific um adversities of the community but from all the way down to students at school to organizers in the middle to the mayor at the top you just seem completely in touch and in lockstep with the movement that you were trying to create in stockman I would personally say as a liberal but as somebody who doesn't identify with any any any of different any particular political party that that's particularly what the democrats now are lacking they don't seem in touch they don't seem in any way tethered or connected to the people in the communities that i come from or the people in the communities that i live in now and michael it's becoming a problem in in a way because you you have people you have the you have the house you have the Senate, obviously there's some political minutia that goes into where you just can't bully everything that you want through. But black people specifically that voted for the Democrats are looking for a return on their

investment. And at least right now, it doesn't seem to be happening to the degree that a lot of them like. What would you say to a disillusioned black voter that wants more out of the administration and out of the people in Congress and in the Senate? Yeah, I would say I feel you. I think it's unacceptable that there hasn't even. been a attempt or a serious attempt at the George Floyd Policing Act, the fact that we took to the streets during COVID, and we haven't seen any meaningful federal police reform is a problem

for me or voting rights. So I would say that is an issue to work on, but working on those issues, it's a question of where are we better prepared to have leverage. Are we more likely to get those things done with Democrats in power or what's Republicans in power? And we know that answer. So the answer is with Democrats in power. So then the second question is, with Democrats in power, how do we push leverage and get them to move? Because it makes no sense to have allies. Like, what's the point of having a friend if your friend ain't going to help you, right? So I think part of it's thinking about, okay, how do we move our friends? And then I think on the Democrats side, the Democrats have to do a better job of messaging,

even if they're doing things for everybody, what it means for black people. Like the child tax credit or their earned income tax credit, big things that's built back better. What does that mean for black people? The infrastructure bill, trillions of dollars. So it's going to create jobs, good paying union jobs. What does that mean for black people? Or the investments they're making in sort of government procurement, the things they're doing even with housing and HUD and looking at sort of appraisal

discriminations and looking at all these things. Like the administration has been doing a lot of not sexy but important things precisely for black people, but I don't think they've been messaging them effectively. So folks don't know. It's like, I see you doing this. I see you doing this. I don't see anything for me. And the issues I really care about from the inflation, like the price of gas to like

policing to like their right to vote. I don't see action on those. So I think it's a mixture of A, better messaging on what's happening. And then B also being very wide eye and bushy tell that power conceives nothing without demand. It's not enough just to vote. It's vote and. So I think people get upset because they vote.

You know, what we voted. It's like voting is necessary. But the next step is now you have to put. push and leverage and prod. And again, you're not going to to be able to push Republicans. There's nothing that you can do that's going to be a Republican and do anything for you. Their existence

is predicated on black people not voting. It's black people not having powers. There's nothing there. And on Democrats, there's a history of sort of responding when you really push. And I'll shut up after this. But if you look at the Civil Rights Movement, like all that civil rights legislation could only happen

with Democrats in power, but it didn't happen just because Democrats were in power. There was like mass movement. Like folks were in the streets. Like Dr. King was like pissing off the Kennedys. The Kennedy's calling him, but I need you to stay home. I need you to. And he was like, no, no, I need you to do this legislation.

So I think part of it is also understanding that even when our friends are in power, we have to push them and advocate and still be out. We should still just be upset about policing this year as we were last year, for example. So how do we push? Because I think we're great at, you know, we saw what we did in the election for 2020. And we saw that we were able to get people to the polls in ways that we never have before. But you're right.

It does stop there. And we are kind of like, okay, well, we got that person in this party in office. We're good. So how do we push each other to take that next step? And I think maybe you talk about the messaging that comes from, you know, the Democratic Party. But at the same time, how do we get the message out to take the next step even further? Because I don't even think that I'd do a great job at that. either. Yeah, no, I think it's

Shut up, man. I think it starts by how we talk about voting. Because I remember doing some campaigning specifically to black men in Georgia and North Carolina during this last campaign. It was like tough conversations. They're like, bro, we've been voting. Like, bro, like we vote. Like, but what are we getting for that vote?

And I think we have to change. I would talk about the vote and that the vote in of itself isn't going to save you. The vote is necessary but not sufficient. And you have to vote, can I get you in the door? But once you're in the door, then the question is like, what do we do? I think part of it is remaining engaged and understanding that sort of when someone's in power, they respond to either donations or noise.

So if you can't donate three, five, $10 a month to get on these, like, donor lists, then you have to connect with, and it's not you by yourself. You have to connect with people making noise. So there's all types of, like the NAACP, for example, an imperfect organization, but if nothing else, they're an organization that's talking politics every single day. They're an organization that when the president's going to do something for black people, he's going to call and bring them to the meeting. So I think it's also aligning yourself because you and of yourself have power,

but power is really compounded when you're part of an institution. So whereas the NACP or another institution that you align with, and then you have to push them because sometimes they're a little behind the times too, but you have to be aligned with an institution that then has a through line to communication with the powers that be, but also can let you know what's happening and how you can be active, debate. For example, right now in the Senate, they're debating a historic bill that would lower child care costs, that would provide universal preschool, that would give every parent with a child a $300

check, that I give every little income worker some sort of check that will make sure that the climate change provisions are like a very important bill. And no one, like, I don't think a lot of people know about it. So I think part of it's also sort of taking upon ourselves to be educated. and then aligning ourselves with groups and movements that are pushing and that are always in these conversations. So I'm going to do something real quick. I'm going to make Michael Tubbs, future president of the United States of America, I'm going to make Michael Tubbs in charge of the messaging for the Democrats,

just for the next X amount of time for this answer. Tell us as the people. Think about me. I'm Van Lathen from Susson. South Baton Rouge, Louisiana. All right. We went out. We voted.

We got with Stacey Abrams. We went nuts. You know, we went nuts in Georgia. We went nuts in Michigan. We went nuts in Wisconsin. We went nuts. And now we look around.

We're like, goddamn, the gas is high. And we ain't got no goddamn George Floyd bill. You're in charge of the messaging. What has been done for black people since Joe Biden has been in office? Yeah. Well, first we know that. with this proportionally impacted the black community. And since this administration has in

office, we've seen a real vaccine rollout to make sure that shots are in arms in a way that are equitable in the way that people are safe and people are being heard. We also know that this infrastructure bill, we know that particularly places in the south have terrible infrastructure, whether it's the levee system, where it's the freeway, where you're down pothos, people drive over. And for the first time in the generation, we have a bill that's going to address that. So on your block and your city and your town, there's going to be real bridges, it's real highways, real roads to drive off. And there's also be jobs created.

We also know that there's an issue with the economy in this country. We see that with inflation. That's because of the Trump tariffs and not because of the work we've been doing. But we also know that parenting is hard, so we have a child tax credit. So for every single American with a child, here's a little bit of cash to pay for that gas, to pay for that milk. And we also understand that we have to think about the future. And that's why we're providing universal preschool for your three- and four-year-old. so that they're able to have more opportunities,

so they're able to advance for. And then we've also been cracking down on sort of racism in all our industry. So whether it's our housing industry, whether it's our government procurement, we're finding ways to increase access for black entrepreneurs. And we also know that we need a planet to live in.

And that's why we're very serious about sort of climate change, and very serious about making sure that places are disproportionately black aren't disproportionately impacted by the climate. And then lastly, we're not raising your taxes to pay for it. We know that under Trump, the rich got richer. So we're raising taxes on corporations to pay zero taxes to help pay for all these investments for our future. Why don't you just go run for the thing? I don't fucking get it. Like it's like it is, it's like Mike, I love you. He's your campaign manager. No, no, that. That's my thing.

I would, I would, my, I got Michael Tubbs's campaign slogan. Oh, no. This is what it is. Just vote for this nibbit. That's the campaign slogan. Like seriously. The campaign slogan is, hey, man, just vote for this nigga. I actually think you'd pull from the other side just so they could be able to say Nick. Just like they could say it.

It would be all over Fox News. It would be all over Fox News tonight on Hannity. Michael Tubbs, just vote for this, nigga. I can say it, right? I can say it. They say it in all the songs. That's it. You found how to bring us together.

How to bridge the gap. I think to your point, we do such a terrible job of messaging because we're doing, like, everything's not perfect, but I keep telling folks, folks don't expect perfection. Folks actually expect government to do nothing. So when you do something, they'll shock. But you have to message it and message it again and message it in the way people hear and understand where it's like, okay, that makes sense. Okay, I got that.

That makes that like that. Do you fear when you look at what's happening in Congress? And, you know, you said it earlier that we're not going to convince the Republicans. You know, like we're not going to pull them over to necessarily to our side to get the things that we want to accomplish. But then you look at the Democratic Party and we've got, like the Republicans, you got the Republicans and you got the Trumpers. Then with the Democrats, you got the progressives and you got the moderates. And you see just recently with the infrastructure bill, the progressives had to compromise in order to go ahead and agree to make that part of the bill pass. But then when it comes to the, I'm going to call it the BBB because for the life of me, I cannot get it right.

build back better, better build back. BBL. It's the BBL. No, sorry. That's what they should have done. Listen, I'm serious. Let me tell you something. And let me tell you how the Democrats miss out.

It's like build back better, right? They should have said they could have called it build back longer, right? And they could have said BBL. I would have never forget it. And everybody, I'm telling you, we would have been getting them from the Dominican Republic just to vote for the bill. If it was the BBL bill, we've got everyone.

Everyone. Tell me one letter. Change the whole thing. But go ahead. Five. The BB. Bibi. No, no, no worries.

But I guess my question is when you see that you talk about messaging, you know, we got to come together. I'm forgetting everything that I was going to say. But do you get fearful when you look at the party and how it's split and how do we come together to get what we want to accomplish? It's not even just fighting against the Republicans. We're fighting against each other. I mean, I think sort of for a lot of people, and I get this. We spent all that money and energy to get the Senate in Georgia to have everything we want done run by this old white man in West Virginia.

Like that bothers me. Like, I'm getting seriously angry just thinking about it because he has, we didn't, all these black folks and then go wait in line for three hours to have Joe Manchin be president. Like to have Joe Manchin decide if we need pay family leave or not. So one of the things the Democrats need to do, is abolished a filibuster. Like, there's no way

because we need voting rights. Like, we don't pass voting rights. If the Republicans take the House in 2022, we'll be under, like, minority rule for a decade because they're, like, trying to cancel elections. Like, they're playing a different evil game. And I, and that's been my biggest frustration this year, honestly. It's like, damn, I tell all these people to go vote.

I'm out here making calls. And George, I'm out here raising money for the senators. is unhappy we won. Can we did get something for it? But I think everyone's confused. Like, okay, so why did I talk to this? Why I do from West Virginia? I think everyone's like, it's annoying when he's on TV talking about,

well, we might make sure we don't give people too much. Yeah. And what's crazy is that West Virginia is the state that would benefit the most from all the stuff we're talking about because there's so much poverty, so low opportunity. So again, but the Democrats have to, as a Democrat, we have to play the game, like to be public. play it in terms of this is about power.

This is about who makes the rules. And right now we can't make the rules because it's damn filibuster, which isn't in the Constitution. It's a made-up rule. We need to abolish it and move forward voting rights and move forward all these things. We don't have to spend.

Like, imagine how much time the president and vice president spent with the senator from West Virginia just to pass a bill for roads and in for something. It's not what people signed up for So we have to change that for sure.

So I want to get to the book after this question, but specifically to the filibuster, do you feel like any hedging on abolishing the filibuster has to do with the fact that elections these days are so tricky? And what could potentially happen if you have a Republican majority in the Senate and they don't have and the Democrats can't filibuster,

then we're, We're in the fucking stone age, right? So what do you, how do you get past that? Well, I think we won't have a Republican majority if the Democrats delivered in the only way they can deliver it

with the filibuster. But I also think, you think the Republicans are going to get in power and not a boss to filibuster? Like, they don't, like, well, they didn't, they didn't under Trump. Yeah. And, but you saw what they,

I remember with the whole Supreme Court thing when they were like, oh, Obama can't appoint nobody because we're about to get into. They got married Garland. Yeah. And then they ran through, boom. So my biggest fear is we'll play by a set of like rules based on the quorum that used to exist. But like this Republican Party is more like the nationalist party of South Africa than like a functioning political party.

They're like far right authoritarian. They weren't helping plan a coup of the capital. Like this is not like a regular political party that think we have to think of them as like this extreme party that seeks to take us back to again, whatever that means. And if they, I started to think what happens if they get into power. Well, hell, we see what happens when they get into power. Look at Texas. Like no one's right to choose. Look at Mississippi.

Like no one comes like we we know what happens when they get in power. So I think for me, in the filibuster is an offensive move. to make sure we could deliver and get some wins for people. So they don't think, like, it doesn't matter who I'm not going to vote. Or it doesn't matter. Let's try some Republicans. And then we get our worst nightmares come true. And I hope to the death I'm wrong.

I hope that none, but I have reason to believe I might be a little bit right. So I might we should probably try to get some wins on this board before 2020. Okay. I have one more question before we get into the book. I know we can get the book. But it just made me think of something. We've talked about it on this podcast. Van says the dynasties last about two, what, two, 300 years.

Is this it for us? Is this it for the United States? Are we, because we've hit that mark. I mean, the answer is yes, but go ahead, Mike. Let my. He might be a little bit more positive than you. It's just it. I mean, in one Dr. King's last speech is he talked about his reading of rise and fall of the Roman Empire.

And he said the Roman Empire imploded from within because of greed, corruption, and a lack of ability to come together. So I think sort of we're on that trajectory if we don't make some changes. If we don't think about how to make sure the country works for everyone. I mean, like, just for instance, there's no way any country can last

where during a pandemic, where a lot of people lost everything, some people went from being billionaires to center billionaires. Like, that's actually evil. And that's actually crazy. Like, how someone go from 50 billion to 300,

50 billion, and some people, like, have nothing during a pandemic where everyone was supposed to be hurt. So I think the indicator, and then the climate change, and then like the far right extremism, you got boys with AK-47 shooting people and broad daylight at protests and are said they're not guilty. Like, so if we don't change, there's no way this is sustainable, but I think that there's enough people like us and enough people who are like, look, and It ain't perfect, but it has to be better that will make it change. But if we do nothing, if we continue down this road, there's no way. I mean, because again, the next generation of kids are mostly children of color.

And if you look at sort of the outcomes we have for children of color, they put us like below most of the developed countries in this world. Like, we just won't be competitive. So my hope is that that sense of like American exceptionalism will get some of our other folks to the table to think about how to be safe. this idea is worth saving, but if we don't change, if it keeps it getting worse and worse, and it's going to have to implode because there's just no way that's not sustainable. They're not sustainable.

So the deeper the root, the deeper the roots, the deeper the roots. Oh, so quest love. Shout out to everybody. Tell us about the book. Tell us why you were called to write it. Tell us why people need to read it. I understand it's a memoir, and you've had quite an extraordinary life. So talk a little bit about the book itself.

Yeah, well, the book is about, so growing up, I loved reading books, particularly about the transition from adolescence to adulthood, like reading Black Boy by Richard Wright in high school. It was like, oh, this is dope. Or reading Man Child in the Promise Land or makes someone to holler. So the deeper the roots is really about sort of not just me, but it's about like first starts with my mom, my aunts, and my grandmother who raised me. I think it talks about sort of black single parenthood, but not from a pathologian perspective, but with a great, like, pride, assets and love. love about, I'm just about the difficulties, but also saying like, wow, these are the type of people you want to lead in your communities. Look what they created. Look what they did. And it also talks about places like Stockton. I mean, you talk about being from South Baddam Rouge. I think many

of us are from places that people who are from there have ideas of or look down on. So it's about like, how do we talk about this place in a way that respects his dignity? And it also is just about sort of my own journey, but talking about it in the way that's not, look what I did, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, but it's like, look at all this stuff one person out to go through. Like, why would we want anyone to, like, how much are we losing out on because of so many people have incarcerated parents? Because so many people live in poverty, because so many schools are in the funding, because so many teachers are racist, etc. And then it's about like some of policy. It's also about leading, right? It's about

what's like to be a 22-year-old black man in charge of the police department when Michael Brown happens? Like, how do you ever mean with the, police department. How do you meet with the community? How do you, as mayor, how do you meet with people who are suspected killers who are on your list because they either shot somebody or have been shot where your own cousin's been murdered and how you talk to them about second chances and how you need them? And it's about sort of how you lead being the first, anything, being the youngest. And I think it's also about sort of what's the path forward, like to your point about this country, like how do how do you make sure this country works for everyone? So it's about all those things. It's about,

yeah, it's just a really, it's, I think a lot of people are turned off, you know, like it's a political memoir, but as you can tell by a conversation here, I'm not like, I don't talk like a politician. So it's just really real and very honest. And it's also about failures. It's just about like what was it like being a 24-year-old counselor person arrested for a DUI? And how do you respond to that? Like, what's it like to do all this great stuff and lose re-election and how do you respond

to that? So I think it's just super honest as well. And it's like, well, here's my story. It's not the story. But I hope it's a story people can learn from. And I hope people get the courage to share theirs and own theirs and realize that their experiences are important too. Michael, right?

Michael, tell everybody where they can get the book, where they can follow what you're doing, how they can get involved. And what's next? Anything else you want to tell us about it? Yeah, you could follow me on Twitter and Instagram at Michael D. Tubbs, M-I-C-H-A-E-L-T-E-B-B-S. if you're interested in California stuff in particular, we're starting an initiative called In Poverty in California,

in Poverty and CA.org. And then get the book wherever books are sold. If you shop online, you can do Amazon, even though I behave on Jeff Bezos' Net Worth all the time. But you can also get it at independent bookstores. You can also get it at your, it's anywhere of books or so, wherever you buy your books or audiobooks. I did the audio as well.

I'm viewed it there and looking for you to hear what you guys think. Yeah. Can't wait. Guess what? No pressure, but you, Randall Woodfin and Stacey Abrams, are basically the only hope for the party. So let me tell what's going to happen with Michael. Michael is going to go, I think Congress Senate President.

Okay, we need everybody. You should give a cash app to Mike so they can donate money just in case. We need a just-in-case slush fund for Michael Tubbs. Let's see, you know, just $200 million. So he decides he wants to run or he decides he wants to take the family to Turks. Either way. Either way, we know how it goes. We know how it goes.

Brough, I'm proud of you. I'm happy for you. Can't wait to see what's the next for you. Thank you for joining us today on higher learning. Yes, thank you so much. Thank you for having me. It was like therapy with my cousins though, right? It was like, like therapy with family.

You're welcome to come back for a family reunion anytime. I've a lot more time now, so please let me know. Sure, no problem. The book is the deeper of the roots. Go out and get it. Michael Tubbs. Thank you for joining higher learning. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business.

Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. services not available in all areas.

This episode is brought to you by Two Good and Company coffee creamers. How'd you take your coffee? Piping hot, ice, strong, frothy. But if you love rich, creamy goodness and delicious flavor in every sip, try Two Good and Company Creamers. They're made with farm-fresh cream and real milk. Each serving has just three grams of sugar, 40% less than the leading coffee creamers. Two good creamers are available in sweet cream, roasted vanilla, and lavender.

So which one are you trying first? Find two good creamers at your local retailer in the creamer aisle. All right, he was great. He was great. Yeah, fantastic. I'm a big Michael Tubbs fan. Huge. I am too.

Love Michael Tubbs. Michael Tubbs, that's a good presidential name, Michael Tubbs. I used to know a Marcus Tubbs. What did you do? Played football. He played football. Was he like a big dude? Yeah, big do.

On the line. Tubbs. On the line. Tubbs. There's a tub. That's a good name for alignment. Tubbs. You know what I mean?

So a politician, alignment. A politician, alignment. It's just a strong name. It's just a strong name. Tubbs. Yeah. There was a, there was a boxer that was Tubbs, Tubbs, big tubs.

Did they call them big tubs? No. His name wasn't big tubs. What was the name of the tub? What was the name of the Tubbs guy that you're talking about? Marcus Tubbs. Marks. Went to Texas, played in Seattle.

then did like football operations maybe like four years or something then did football operations at Texas under Mac Brown I'm not sure we know This nigga looked like a tug He lost hell of wait He's like he uh Wait a minute

Wait this guy wasn't hold on Did I make all this out? Nah he did he was a tight end in in high school though He was not a tight end He was not a tight end at Texas. No, he was not. No, no, I know I'm saying, no, I know he wasn't. But I'm saying, well, I'm saying, though, it's very impressive.

Do you see where he's from? Desota. He is from Desoto. I used to live there. 6-3-220, Tubbs. He was a starter for the basketball team for three years in a row. Tubbs was getting it. Yeah, 37 games.

He transferred from defensive line to, tight in, he is really, Tubbs is great. Tubbs is a good athlete. All right. Shout out to Marcus. To the whole Tubbs family. To every,

all the Tubbs is. Tubbs. All the Tubbs is out there. If you're listening to this and your last name is Tubbs, shout out to you, which is a big ass. Okay, Vans very serious question of the week.

We talked about boy bands earlier. I've been listening to a lot of boys to men lately. Okay. And my question to you is very simple. This is something that goes back and forth in my mind, back and forth in my heart, back and forth, back and forth with people on Twitter, although Twitter has seemingly made up their mind about this. Okay.

That's very serious question. It's very easy for you, Rachel. All right. Boys to men or Jodacy. Whoa. It's two different types. It's like the good guys versus like, I guess the, they were billed as the bad guys of R&B.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, they were billed. Nah, they were bad. They were the bad guys. I don't think anyone from Jodice, wait a minute, I don't think anyone from Jodice. I don't think anyone from Jodice is going to have a problem with being called the bad boys of R&B. They were definitely the bad boys of R&B.

It just depends. I mean, I'm going to go with Jodice. You're going to go with Jodice? I'm going to go with Jodice. I didn't have a crush on any of the men in boys to men. See, that has nothing. See, that's what I'm talking about. See, this is my thing.

That was the overriding factor for me. me. That takes away from the actual art. People say this all the time. This is the thing. I'm just talking about the music, man. The music, the music. I can't. I can't separate it because the music is, it's two different types of music, right? It really, really is. They're both R&B, but it's a different type of R&B. Like, even when boys to men is singing about, I'll make love to you, it doesn't sound the same as, you know, a Jodacy. Oh my gosh. freak me freak me it's not the same it's not the same right they're both talking about sex it's not the same i'm going with jodicey you're going with josey i'm going with dvante

you're going with dvante all right let me ask you this because i'm going with boys to men now i've been listening to so much boys to men that at first it was i it was jodicey for me because jodice got jodice got that swang man they they they really do but I've been listening to so much voice to me I'm in a boys to men phase right now so I'm gonna go with boys to men who sings better boys to men Jodacy or boys to men

Boys to men sings better right Who has better songs Who has more Jodicy has better songs than boys to me I gotta look at this Well no no no I'm asking your opinion I'm not trying to sway you No no no no let's look it up I think I think I'm gonna go with Jodicine

Jocelyn got feaning Do I get to Do I get to include Freaking you I said freak me Freaking you is what I was thinking Yeah freaking you

They got freaking you They got feening Fiening cry for you Love you for life Cry for you Forever my lady Forever my lady They got these

They got them joints now Shit they got them joints now Get on up Oh Come on You got in out Got to get on up Yeah, okay.

I got you. Say it again, Jodicy. Yes, come on. Okay, so. Lately? Lately, that's a cover. I don't count that one.

Yep, we count that. So the singles, the Jodacy singles, Forever, my lady, stay, come and talk to me, cry for you, fiendin, what about us,

freaking you, love you for life, get on up. They got a lot of fucking joints. Those are joints. Now, let's go to Boys to Men, because I want to settle this. Let's go to Boys to Men real quick.

Boys to Men. Boys to Men. Because we're not going to talk about who was more successful because, you know, that's a wash. Boys to Men was more poppy. And Boys to Men got these timeless classics that I feel like people be hating on, man. People be hating on Boys to Men. I'll make love to you into the road. I'll make love to you.

One sweet day doesn't count. On the Bended Knee. Okay. Water runs dry. Ooh, that's, see, they're like pretty songs. They're pretty songs. They're not grimy. Yeah, they're pretty.

A song for mama? Talk about your mama. It's, it's neck and neck. Now what I was, if I was going to say, I got a cover for you. I got a cover for you.

What? What about boys to men cover of can you stand the rain? Amazing. Yeah, I still like the original better. But it is amazing. Motown Philly.

Motown Philly? Maybe if what puts Boys to Men a little bit over is they got a Christmas song. That's timeless. What's their Christmas song? Let it's not. I don't like that type of shit. I'm sorry, what's the problem with Lett It Snow?

No, I can listen. If I can listen to your Christmas song at any time of the year, it's a hit. I don't get into that shit. It's like five Christmas songs that I like. Okay, Lettuce Snow should be one of them. Brian McKnight's on it too. Remember when they were singing it on Fresh Prince? I can't, but like I didn't come from a place where it was snow.

Do I mean? So we just, we just hate all Christmas songs? Baton Rouge. It's like, let it be chilly. Wait, wait. Then what are your five Christmas songs? What do the lonely do at Christmas time? Really?

Oh, but you see, it's a story behind it. You talked about this. There's a story. That's a great song. My grandmother brought that up through it in our face. You talked about that. You talked about the story behind that one. My grandmother brought that up through it on our face.

This Christmas. Obviously, this Christmas. I got to go with Silent Night by the Temptations. I don't like that type of. for shit. But yes, that's good. That's a good song. I don't like Silent Night. I don't like Silent Night. Then pick your...

Then pick your paper because you just don't like anything. Mariah Carey? I'm shocked you like it. Why? It's about Christmas and not about the weather. I don't like Christmas songs as about the weather. You know what I mean? Because I never experienced that weather.

Because Silent Night is not about the weather and you're hating on it. That's true. That's very true. I will give you that. Silent Night. Silent Night is just kind of. I don't know it gets to me I don't know why it feels white.

Because it is. That's why I set the temptations version. But all I want for Christmas is you, that's that. That's that shit, man. That's a great Christmas song. That's what Christmas means to me is one of my favorites too.

Who does that? Stevie Wonder did it. Cilo did it. That's what Cilow did it, huh? Interesting. All right. So what do we, so what do we, So, so what are we doing here?

We're doing Jodicey versus boys to men. I am going with boys to men at this particular point in my life. It's always been jodicy for me. But it's always, now, okay, before we go, before we go. What if I throw in, say a Drew Hill. So rank them. What if I throw in? Oh, don't do Drew Hill.

Drew Hill has those hits. What if I throw in, say a Drew Hill. Okay, if I was to give you, if you, if you, single a one, two, three, Jodicy, Drew, Jodicey, Drew, Jew, what if I throw in, what if I throw in a Drew Hill?

Do you think? So, let me ask you this. So this is what we'll do. This is what we'll do. This is what we'll do, because with the Jocacy Boys and Men thing is one. Forget about Jodicy Boys and Me. What about Drew Hill boys to men?

Who's better? I'm going with Drew Hill. I'm going with Drew Hill. You're going with Drew Hill over Boys to Men. Easy. Drew Hill is better than Boys to Men. I'm going with Drew. First of all, I'm not hating on Drew Hill, man. Shout out Baltimore.

You, I'm like, I'm not hating on, I'm not hating on, but you, you just don't like boys to me. No, that's not it. It's just that Drew Hill album, Drew Hill. Yeah. You could press play and just go. And I'm going to tell you what takes it over the top to me. It's five steps. Five steps gets me every time.

I don't know if there are any boys to men songs that make me cry, not even a song for Mama. So five steps gets me every. time. This is the new Vans very serious question of the week. It's fine. Forget about Boys and Men versus Jodacy because it feels like most of the community has made their decision and they like Jodacy. Boys to Men

versus Drew Hill. Rachel, you say Drew Hill. It's Drew Hill. I don't see how you could say that. I understand that Drew Hill got the joints. People forget. People forget. When you go, this is your homework tonight. Yes. I want you to listen to Drew Hill, the Drew Hill album. I just want you to press play

and let the music. take you somewhere. But you've forgotten. You've forgotten. Maybe I have. That's fair. That's fair. Just let it take.

I'm going to listen to it because you just brought it back to me. But after I listen to the Drew Hill album, I'm going to listen to Mashi. Your niggas going to make me unleash the dragon. I know you don't really want to unused the drag. Can I hear you hear me say, yeah. Women, if you hear me and say, y'all niggas going to make me unleash the dragon. That's not one the one I'm telling. Can I just question?

I know. But that's Cisco. Can I just say. something real quick. Why was Cisco threatening us? What was he going to do to us? Cisco, we weren't afraid. Like, why, like, why was this?

Y'all did he was going to make me unleash the dragon? What? Like, we're looking around like, what, is Cisco threatening us? Like, why is Cisco? Did you feel? Threatening? I'm just, we were very excited for the album to come out, right? And when it came out, I'm like, the fuck is Cisco talking about?

Like, he's like, Cisco's like, y'all niggas going to make me unleash the dragon. and you can't like threaten somebody and then do a one-handed roundoff. You know what I mean? It's like he would do this. You just couldn't, he would spin around and do a one-handed roundoff. It's like, y'all-need is going to make me unleash the dragon. What the fuck are you talking about, Cisco?

We're not afraid of the dragon that you have. Shout out to Drew Hill. All right. Oh, my gosh. That's it for today. Tell you think he else off, but do not stop learning. I am Van Lathen, Jr. I'm Rachel Lynn, Lexie.

Happy Thanksgiving. Oh, should we say something about that? Oh, yeah, we're not going to be. Oh, yeah. You guys have a happy Thanksgiving. We'll be back next week. No show at the end of the week. We gave you a little bit more.

Enjoy your turkey, your stuffing, your families. And just remember that at one time, there were 25 to 30 million indigenous people living on the contiguous United States. Just remember that. A thriving. amazing, it still continues to be a thriving and amazing culture. But just remember what happened, what actually happened, and the blood that was spilled.

Enjoy your families, but take a little time for remembrance too, always.