Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Carlee Russell’s Disappearance and Adam Cohen Talks SCOTUS

Episode Date: July 21, 2023

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay discuss the investigation into Carlee Russell's disappearance and the epidemic of missing Black women in the U.S. (23:43) before reacting to country music artist Jason Aldean’s song “Try That in a Small Town,” and its ties to a painful history (54:12). Then, author and journalist Adam Cohen joins to discuss his new book, ‘Supreme Inequality: The Supreme Court's Fifty-Year Battle for a More Unjust America’ (1:02:10), and Sexyy Red causes controversy (1:32:16). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Adam Cohen Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Our learning is on. It is I, Van Lathen, Jr. And it's me, Rachel Lynn Lindsay. Rachel, you want to maybe stop eating your food so we can get through the podcast, please? I'm sorry that I'm just trying to squeeze in my first meal of the day. Your inability to schedule your life isn't anybody's fault here on this podcast.

I want to let you know that. You know, you're right. You're right. What are your takeaways from the summit of the sex? The summit. Let's get right into it. Oh, man.

Well, I hope everybody enjoyed the summit. It was a long time coming. Takeaways. I had a fun time, but I wish we could have had more time. There was so much to cover. We didn't even get to all of our topics. And obviously, when you're talking about one thing,

it's going to bring up more things. And so we just need it all the time. But we couldn't be there all day. But I think that it was a lot more calm than I thought it was going to be. I think everybody was on their best behavior. But overall... Really? Do you think Gino was on his best behavior?

I don't know if you were. I think that's Gino. Interesting. How do you know? You never met him before. I feel like I read people well. Listen, Gino had a bad moment, but overall, Gino was good. And I was expecting it to just go off the rails, which it didn't.

So I enjoyed the conversation. My only thing is I wish it could have been longer. And I have had a couple of people hit me up because they've just seen social media clips and say, hey, you guys didn't address LGBTQ plus issues, which if you watch a whole episode, we do at the end and we hope to do more of these. But overall, for the first summit of the sexes, it was a success. You? It was good. I understand the criticism.

I think the summit of the sexes was intended to be a conversation between black men and black women about black men and black women relationships. I don't think that we promised anything different than that. There are plenty of time to discuss like all of the things that are going on and we do our best to discuss them all. That's what I would say. There was a specific conversation that was being had on stage, to some of the sexes.

I thought it was good. I thought it was a good conversation. I never really thought that it would be, that it would go off the rails because I don't think that, that, I don't think that my friends, the guys I brought up there, I don't think that they, I don't think they're angry with black women,

you know, I think in black men and black women's ability to, to communicate in relationships and in sharing the community together, I think there is some anger. I don't think those guys are angry. I think if I had wanted it to be a conversation that was a little bit more fiery, I definitely could have put guys on there that are mad at black ladies and don't have any reverence or respect for them. But I don't think that I know any people like that. I'm sure we both know people on both sides that are like that. But not any of my close friends.

Close friends. Sure. Close friends. I wasn't expecting there to be anger. I think I just thought somebody might say something that might be triggering to someone, and then somebody's going to, you know, respond out of emotion. That's what I think I was expecting more. But, and I think other people were too. You know, I've seen, I've had people write and he said, oh, I thought it was going to be more spicy than that. And the thing was, it was a conversation. And I'm proud that we were able to bring a conversation in the way that we did. It wasn't supposed to be, I mean, if people want that, we could do that, but I also just don't

think that's who we are necessarily as a podcast. We have disagreements. We bring them to the table and we discuss them. And I think that the summit was a reflection of that. Did you learn anything? No. Yeah. Were you expecting to?

Well, I think I learned stuff. I think I learned, number one, I learned not to care about any of this stuff as much. because, and I think that's an important, an important lesson. Not to care about the, when I say not to care,

I don't mean not to care about the black community or the way black men treat black women or the way black people treat one another or anything like that. It needs interpersonal and sexual and emotional and emotional relationships. I don't think that I mean that. I don't think that I mean that at all.

I think I learned, and I have been learning not to care as much about people's individual perceptions on dating black men and any of that stuff. Because it really is, for the most part,

based on people's feelings. There's not a lot of actual data that goes into this. There's not a canvassing of things. We rarely talk about the foundational issues of white supremacy or the economic challenges that have made some of this stuff, the reality that it is. The social engineering that's been done by the country itself or any of that stuff that drives a wedge between us. And so in lieu of having those conversations, which everyone would have to get much, much deeper into all it is to be able to do.

The rest of it is just people talking about like how much they've been hurt and how much they're willing to take. And that's on both sides. When I say that, I mean, when a lot of times when brothers are talking about this stuff, they're really talking about how insulted they feel at some of the things that they see or how belittled they feel. And even all of that stuff, it's based upon an idea of themselves that they've been socialized to believe is true. It's an idea of manhood and an idea of masculinity that they've been socialized to believe is real for very cosmetic purposes oftentimes.

So when that's injured, you get long drawn out conversations about who should be. washing the clothes and who should be paying for dates and what it means to do this and what it means to do that. I really enjoyed it from an entertainment perspective, but I was actually a little disappointed that it didn't, we don't get anywhere. But it was also eye-opening because a lot of this isn't about what we're saying that it's about. Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop sorts of

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Offered by Fanduel prediction markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant, 18 plus. Bonus is non-withdrawable and expires seven days after receipt. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See terms at fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. So I will say there were two moments where I felt like if there was something thing I was going to say I was going to learn, that I learned, or at least I thought it highlighted

something good or there was a moment of maybe a breakthrough. You know, I say I didn't learn anything, but I don't necessarily mean that negatively. I would co-sign what you said. I believe everybody's relationship is different. Everybody brings different experiences into their relationship. And so it's really between those two people to figure out how they want to navigate it based on what they've been through, based on what their morals, values are, all of that. Generational trauma, everything. So it's very particular.

So that's why, yes, at the end of the day, we will always go in circles because everybody's situation is so different. I mean, there was even that moment on stage where you were saying what you have learned from black women. And then we are on the stage saying, well, we are black women trying to tell you. But our experience isn't the same as the black women that you've been talking to. So it just highlights that. The two things that I would say is that there was a moment.

moment in the need, want conversation, which could have gone on forever and maybe went on too long. But I feel like I did take away from that because lately I've been like listening to a lot of R&B. Kevin Samuels? I said R&B. For some reason, I just thought maybe you were dipping back into the well of Kemp's. No, I said R&B. And shout out to Ian, who was on the panel who just dropped his new podcast. Can we talk R&B?

Can we talk R&B? Great podcast about R&B. podcast, loved having a conversation with him about R&B for a dinner after. So shout out to Ian. You all go check that out. But in a lot of the songs that I'm listening to, they use need and want interchangeably. And so it, for me, I felt like the conversation highlighted. We're both kind of saying the same thing. And that maybe the, what a man desires, I'll just use a different word, out of a relationship is different from what a woman does. But at the end of the day, we need want each other.

That was something that I felt I came out. And then also there was a really great question at the end. I believe it came from Jazzy Reparations Club. And she talked about having conversations with who do you have these conversations with, like the topics that we were talking about on stage. And I thought it was really good. And Shannon had a really good response about. And this is what I think the panel reflected.

It shouldn't be just conversations in our group chat with just all girls or all men or whatever. It should be, you should be talking to the other side. And I think that it offers a different perspective. And I always did that. And I love the Shannon highlighted that. And I felt like that's what the summit was. It's taking it out of the group chat and us having the conversation with who it is that we're actually talking about and vice versa. And I thought that was a good moment.

Yeah, that's actually very true. I'm lucky to have some of the most talented and amazing black women in my life. Like really, really just amazing, amazing, amazing sisters in my life and always really have. If not, I'd probably be a lot more sazi-shaji than I already am, a little sajony. I get a little saji, huh? I get a little saji, but I probably will be a lot more, if not, if not for the strong women in my life. I'll say this. I think sometimes I want and have expectations of the black community that aren't realistic

and maybe even reflect my idea of a black utopia a little bit. When I am around the diverse group of friends that I have, the Jewish guys that I know, the Asian people that I know, I hear them talking about how they're dating, but when it comes down to it at the end of the day, they're going to find an Asian lady or a Jewish lady to date. Like I hear them talking about, like, you know, when I'm over there at the Equinox Sports Club, L.A.,

I'm around a lot of my Persian Jewish brothers. You know, we're out there, we're playing basketball. They're telling me about what, went on and the Shaav Iran. I'm like, we could talk for hours and hours and hours about how the population got from there to here and all of this stuff. You know, I see them with some of the ladies in the gym and they'll say very, very candidly that they're dating this white girl or this black lady or this Latina girl.

But when it comes time to get married, they're going to date and they're going to marry a Jewish woman because their culture is that important to them that they want to carry something on and continue to build a community. And I think about that sometimes. And what that means is when these guys are at the peak of their powers culturally and as American citizens, when they are the most wealthy, the most influential, the most established that there will ever be that there's some sort of cultural

imperative to them to share that with the other people that that are in their culture. Now, that's not necessarily something that I would recommend everybody adopting because it doesn't seem like total freedom. You should be able to fall in love with whoever you want. But to put your culture and to put the future of your culture and the health of your culture on that type of pedestal where you're attacking it with intent and you're being very serious about it is sometimes the thing

that I want for Black America. I want us to care about and it comes from obviously this is my perspective, but I want us to care about these serious threats to us and the serious health of what we are, the health of what our culture is.

and I want us to be able to kind of look at that and kind of consider all of those things. But you know what the reality is? There are a lot of black people. There are a lot of black people. There are 40 million black people in this country. Maybe, I mean, a little bit more than that. So maybe as a people, we're in a spot

where there are just too many of us for these things to hold consistent across the country and in one American black diaspora that goes from New York to Baton Rouge to Texas to L.A. and then the Miami. And what it's probably more important for me to do is focus on the health and the vibrancy, the vibrancy of, should I say, of black people in smaller areas. Like, what does my community in South Baton Rouge look like? What do the communities out here? LA that I can affect look like and how are they dealing and stop worrying about like conversation from C to shine and see about things that don't really matter but I but and that's

where the want need thing comes in like just knowing that I see other groups that their dollar stays in their community longer that they have a different sort of reverence from one another that these things are just so important to them and and they're so important to them And it sometimes feels like the reason why their cultural outcomes are different. One is because they don't face nearly the entrenched systemic issues that we do. Yeah. That's true. But also, I think there's also something to be said about their dedication to who they are. And not just when something goes wrong and not just when something is bad,

but their dedication to maintaining an understood identity and a consistent one over a long period of time. I think that what I have to do is stop putting a car before the horse and start helping and building that identity in smaller pockets so I can really reach young black men and women so that we can dig ourselves out of some of the things that we've been put in. you know so I think that I think not just the summit but like a lot of it like sometimes I think I'm trying to I'm trying to do too much and I'm trying to think about too much and I'm I'm taking

on too much and that's kind of why it like I tie myself up in knots and I talk myself in circles because like there's nothing there is nothing like if all the feelings on the stage were valid there's no way to you can't convince anybody you just got to hear her And I don't know if that was the point. And I don't know if the point was to convince. I think the point was to have a conversation. Yeah. Yeah.

And let people play the rest out in the comments. Yeah. Did you read a lot of the comments? Did you read it? I saw some of them. What was, were you shocked? Was there anything shocking in there? Did they, was there anybody going crazy?

Not from what I saw. I mean, it was the typical exactly what I expected. Did you see something different? Nope, people liked it. People liked it. People liked it. They wanted to hear more, you know, I already said people were like, oh, you didn't cover everything. Absolutely impossible to do.

But, you know, some people were like, all the player-proof crew was representing. Some people were like, I'm down with the ladies. Ah, y'all got swacked out. Please. Y'all got swacked out. I mean, y'all weren't expecting. Really, to be honest with you,

You probably got some. Oh, okay, here we go. Yo, I mean, look, y'all weren't expecting Ian and Gino to bring all of their Negro charm. I think Ian had that little flip in his hair. Sometimes when that little flip is in that nigger's hair, you know, like that little, he got the little, what do you, the little killmonger thing. Sometimes when that little salt and pepper killmonger thing comes out,

people kind of lose themselves a little bit. Ian wore leather pants to the summit of the sexes. It was at least 100 degrees in L.A. that day. Totally unsurious. See what I'm talking about? Do you see what I'm talking about? Gino had on a suit. I was like, guys, it's hot.

Yeah. I came out there. I had a T-shirt and some Laker shorts or something like that. Gino and Ian, they came dressed some of the sexes, man. Like it was Sunday church day. That's the type of shit Ian wear the church, man. They did.

Leather pants for Jesus. But I enjoy Ian, who I already met at Gino. I really did. I feel like the the actual length of the summit was Sweet Booty's fault. The link? Is that what you said? The length. Like, Sweet Booty was

like trying to hurry me up. Sweet Booty jump on real quick. Are you talking about me? Yeah. Donnie, is there another? Is there another? No, we're not going to blame this on Donnie. Donnie kept us on track. One, we all had dinner reservations. And we know that. And everybody was hungry and they would have been upset if we didn't have it. But two, we did it and out, we were two hours pretty much.

Did we go two hours? The actual length of the content was a little bit over an hour. It was less to two hours. But, but I mean, I would say because of me that we were able to hit as many topics as we did. I agree, Donna. Earlier, we had topics that were left on the cutting room floor, which we got to say for the next one whenever that happens. What should we do? The next time we should tackle a either we should tackle a different subject or we should take the summit of the sexes to a different place. You know what I mean?

Maybe we up the ante. We've already did it with our group and maybe we up the ante a little bit. But maybe we attach, maybe we talk about, you know what we could do? We could do a summit completely dedicated to LGBTQ plus issues.

Donnie, you like how he said that like it was a novel idea? I didn't say that. Yeah, this is a, we're all on the same page, but I'm glad, I'm glad who we are on this page. But thanks, man. I forgot. I forgot. That's a good idea.

I'll take credit for it, whatever. We should do that. But like, we really should. We should. I think we, I think that's the next summit. I think that's the next summit. We do that. And I think that's important.

And then we, we do one about money, about economics. Our live shows aren't just going to be us doing. the podcast. If Rachel's down with this, I think our live show shouldn't just be us doing the podcast live. It should be us tackling an issue like we did a lot of the sexes. You know, that was

kind of fun. I like it. It was a lot of fun. And it's fun to be thought warriors too. You know, even though nobody in the audience wanted to admit that they were a part of the Reddit, we know. The Reddit is a scarlet letter. I mean, you know straight up. I tell you

straight up right now. I tell you straight up. I love meeting thought warriors I do. If I meet you and you are and you actually admit to me that you're on that Reddit, I'm not going to fuck with you. Really? No, man. No, no, no, no. I'm not going to fuck with you.

Well, we'll never know. Then everybody keep your identity anonymous. It's going to be a scarlet letter. It's going to be a scarlet letter. If I meet you and you tell me you be on there, I'm not fucking with you. Straight up. It's like it's not going to be, we're not going to be cool because it's just, it's like, It's just the Reddit is going too far.

Even the admin, the poor admin who put it together with good intentions. Oh, don't get me wrong. Don't get me wrong. There are a lot of great people on the ready. There are a lot of great people on the radio. You just can't trust you never know. You never know. People was on that dissing my father.

I like, you just, you just, you just never know. You just never know. So therefore, everybody gets thrown in the trash pile. I'm trash. We all can be trashed, I guess. Now, we have a show today.

It's kind of a dope show. I'm not going to lie. We're bringing you Adam Cohen, who is the author of Supreme Inequality. It's a book that takes to task the notion that's Supreme Court is anything but an institution

that is acted in some of the most undemocratic, democratic ways in the history throughout their history in this country. Boom. Number one. But we also got to talk about what's going on down there in Alabama. We got to talk about what's going on down there in Alabama with Carly Russell. Okay.

We got to discuss it. I like it. This is the type of shit I like. This gets me out of bed in the morning. Does it? Yeah. Yeah. It gets me out of bed in the morning.

gets me out of bed in the morning talking about Carly motherfucking Russell because it's a bunch of funny mess that doesn't matter at all but if you listen to what people are saying or we're going to make it matter here on higher learning but if you listen to what people are saying

It matters, man, it matters. It really doesn't matter. There are things about it that matter. Yeah. But if you listen to how people are talking about it, they're acting like it's the fucking crime in the century. I love it.

We're going to get into that. We got Adam Cohen. We're going to do a little trumpeted Trump, Trump, Trump stuff. Sexy Red. We're going to come back on the other side of this break to get in the big deal of the day, which is the kidnapping that never was. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable Internet means everything for your business.

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which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Fyah, Guseocomab. Taken by injection is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaques psoriasis, who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy, and for adults with active psoriotic arthritis. Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur.

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Um, is it Carly? It's Carly. Okay. Let's go. All right. Here we go. The bullshit is the big deal of the day. Carly Russell.

I'm sure you guys had heard that there was a young woman in Alabama who had been abducted or so we thought and the story was that she was driving along the street and saw a toddler outside she stopped to help this toddler

and that she was abducted social media acted swiftly activists acted swiftly to get her story out there we know that black women are abducted in America at disproportionate numbers to what they represent in the population. That is a fact. Everyone knows this.

We have been talking about this increasingly the last couple of years. And so to see this case, to see this happen, a lot of people were very emotionally moved and wanted a resolution to this where Carly came back, healthy and happy. Well, we got that. Carly did come back healthy and happy, but God damn it doesn't

shit. We don't know. She hadn't said nothing. She might be very happy. It doesn't look like it happened. It looks like the entire thing was a hoax. And there's a timeline to this. Well, first I should say, Rachel, before we get into the timeline, what? Rachel, what did you think when you first heard Carly was missing? And what do you think about this entire thing now that it's pretty clear that she made all this fucking shit up? Okay.

I've gone on such deep, dark holes on all the social medias trying to see. I don't want, I don't want this to be not true. Okay. I want to, let me just say, answer your question. Okay. When I first heard, I was, I mean, people were blowing me up on social media. You guys got to post this. You guys got to put this out there.

This is, you know, she's missing. And of course, as you just laid out, we know what's happening to missing, or the lack of what's happening to missing black women, how we're not giving it the attention, how people aren't putting a spotlight on it. And we know what, that their power and numbers. And if we put ourselves behind that and put that on our platforms and we all come together, we could put some pressure on the people who do have the power to do something. to get something done. So that's what we did with Carly. I'm going to tell you something. The moment they announced that Carly had returned

and they said she showed up at her parents' house, I knew something went right. I knew something in the milk won right. I knew it. I knew it. You didn't hear that same? Something in the milk ain't right. Nah.

Something in the milk can't right. I don't fuck with the milk as much as you do. Go ahead. I'm more in the coffee. Colombian coffee. No, no, no, Colombian coffee. We got to talk about what's white and what's not one day because I don't really think.

But go ahead. I mean, race is the social contract. We know that. Okay, white, whatever. Milk, yes. Dabbled. So something in the milk one right. I'm telling you, when she showed up

and then everything after that, it was like there was a silence. We didn't know what. what state she showed up in. We didn't know. We just heard that they were happy that she was home. We knew that they took her to the hospital. Nothing else was coming out.

And the lack of information was alarming to me. But I really think the most alarming thing was she just showed up to the house. And I'll just leave it there for now. So for people to know, so you guys know, this is the timeline of things that happened because the Hoover Police Department gave a press conference. This was yesterday. and they gave a timeline to all of the goings-ons around this case

to everything that went down. The public skepticism about Carly Russell's disappearance was at a fever pitch, and they did nothing to dispel it. All right, so this is the timeline that they gave. July 11th, 7.30 a.m., two days before she disappeared, She was at her job. She searched the term. Do you have to pay for an Amber alert?

At 1.30 a.m. on the day of her disappearance, she searched the term. How to take money from register without getting caught ready. At 2.30 a.m. that same day, the term Birmingham bus station was searched. Then at 2.35, a search for a one-way ticket from Birmingham to Nashville was conducted. 12.10 p.m. later on, she did a search for the movie Taken. Now, she left the Woodhouse Spa at the summit where she worked. 8.20. Surveillance showed that Russell concealed a dark colored bathrobe, a roll of toilet paper, and other items belonged.

into the business prior to her departure. She ordered food from a restaurant. Then she talked to her mom a little bit. She left. She stopped along US 280. She bought some granola bars, some cheez-its, and a drink.

She needed her energy. To lie. She remained in the parking lot to around 921. She drove to I-459-9. 934 p.m. Hoover 911 received a call from Russell saying that she had seen a white male child about three to four years old walking along I-49, I-459. She called 911. She got out of her vehicle to check on the child. A man came out of the trees, mumbled that he was checking on the baby. That man picked her up and she screamed.

He then made her go over her offense. He didn't force her into a car. The next thing she remembers is being in the trailer of an 18-wheeler. She said the man was male with a female. However, she never. She never. saw the female only heard the voice. Said the man was white with orange hair in a bald spot. And July 14, people search, July 15th. The family received a call

saying that she was at the red roof inn in Vestavia Hills. Talitha Russell later told Fox that that call was a hoax. Hours later, Hoover 911 received a call from Carly's residence saying that

she had returned home on foot. There's something else that's really interesting. On the 16th, she went for evaluation. There's something else that's really interesting here. Okay. So the police in this situation talked about all of the search terms that Carly Russell had, taken how you pay for an Amber Alert, all that. But there are other things that she searched that they refused to divulge.

Right. things that they say are material to this entire story. So there might be other things that she searched, like, you know, how to go here, how to do this, how to do that, that they're not talking about. There are a couple of reasons why they might not be. Number one, they might be trying to compel her to do a second interview because to this point, she has refused to be interviewed again.

been interviewed by police once. She doesn't want to do it again. Typically, in a situation like this, the cops wouldn't give a fuck about embarrassing you. If there's something on those search terms that's embarrassing. But they're not talking about it. Now, maybe they want her to do the second interview

or else they're going to release whatever it is that they have that she searched. Because that might be the nail in the proverbial coffin in terms of this. Now, since this has happened, it looks like she lied. She almost certainly lied. Obviously, the conversation has turned to a great many things.

This conjures up the recollection of Justice Millette for a lot of people. And it makes people think about the seriousness of missing and exploited and abducted black women and what this does to that entire conversation. Rachel, now that we know that Carly probably lied. What are your thoughts? How do you feel? Do you feel like any of these conversations that we're having about what this means in the future when someone's taken or anything like that are justified and valid? Well, they're obviously justified and valid because Carly Smollett was trending on Twitter.

That doesn't mean that they're justified and valid. That just means that people think it. Do you think that they're justified and valid? No, I don't think that people should be thinking that, but I think that they're, The reason I say it's worth talking about is because immediately people are going to justice with this situation that happened and they're making a joke out of it or they're not taking it as seriously. And as you pointed out at the top of introducing this product, I mean, you can go look, you can Google this everywhere. There are movies about it. We've had conversations about it.

You know, the NAACP put out a resolution in 2019 that there were 64,000 missing black women. That's 2019. That number has only gone up. It's a huge problem in this country and nothing's being done about it. So I get why people are upset. I know that there's a whole host of people who are making jokes about it and making light of the situation. And I understand that people want to do that.

And some of them were funny. However, I think the bigger, yeah, I'm not going to lie, some more funny. But you're not going to see me. reposting that and you're not going to see me making light of it because it does, this is a serious issue and the fact that for whatever reason, whether she's suffering for mental health issues, which is also a reason not to joke about it because there could be something truly wrong with Carly and that might be the information that they're not releasing. We don't know at this point. We can only speculate, but there could be something wrong with her. So that's a reason not to make a joke.

I'll say this. I'll say this. There could be something wrong with her. But I know that people are saying that. But the fact that this seems to be so premeditated, the fact that this seems to be so well researched. It was not well researched. It was like it wasn't premeditated in the best way. I'm talking about how it was premeditated. I'm talking about the fact.

And I applaud her for this. I shout out to Carly. This is funny. Like I applaud her. She took the time to search what the age. of the Amber Alert is, if you can pay for the Amber Alert. It doesn't seem like,

and this is hours before it all happened. It doesn't seem like someone who had some sort of spontaneous mental break and then was in a very bad situation. It seems like someone who made a plan and then went through with that plan. Okay.

I don't want to put this mental illness on her. But have you ever been around somebody who's schizophrenic before? Yeah, but we're really doing a lot of work if we're going to say that she's saying. I'm just saying having it impact my family. I have seen similar behavior. Just saying.

Don't know if that's it, which is why I'm also hesitant to, you know, publicly, again, like I said, I've seen some of the stuff. It's funny, but I'm not going to publicly make a joke about it. But also to the seriousness of the way people were rallying behind her, the way, you know, it brings the spotlight on the lack of attention. there is someone who's getting this attention, then people are found,

then they find her, you know, the stress that it put on her family, her friends, you know, the time that was taken away to look for her, people using their platforms,

people will be hesitant to do that. Again, I don't care what you say. People will be hesitant to do it in the same way. They might not all, and I would say

for those people who do who maybe feel that way, it's important that when And we found out about it, we believed her. And it's important that whenever it is reported that anyone is missing, and in this case, black women, when they don't get the attention, we should always take their stories seriously.

And we should not allow somebody who's probably not true to deter us from doing that. That's all I'll say. You know how I feel about this. And sometimes I feel like that just, The niggas just not going to be free. It's just not. Sometimes I feel like niggas just never going to be free. And I'll tell you why, man.

There is nothing that reinforces the structures of white supremacy and whiteness. Then the notion that your behavior denotes how much respect and reverence you get. in America from the systems that you pay for. Meaning, they asked that man, the police man that was doing the, the press conference. The press conference.

They asked him. They said, hey, is this going to change the way you investigate missing persons in the future? He said, we have a responsibility to take every single case along these lines seriously. And that's his fucking job. Everyone's saying that they wasted police this.

They wasted this. They didn't waste nothing. They didn't waste anything. Nothing was wasted. It's their job. That doesn't mean they executed. No, no. It's their job to look for people who are missing.

it's their job to do it. By the way, let me say why it's not a waste to me. It's not a waste. In this case, it's not a waste in the Jesse case. The reason why is because if she made a false report, a false call to 911 or whatever here, like them going through the investigation to find out whether or not this really happened

is them doing what they're supposed to do. Malcolm X talked about what it means to be a second-class citizen. And do you know what Malcolm X said about being a second-class citizen? What? That there's no such thing as being a second-class citizen. That you're either a citizen or you're not a citizen. Okay? So that means either you have the rights of a citizen or you don't have the rights of a citizen.

There's no in-between. There's no, this person is a little bit more of a citizen than me. I'm a little bit less of a citizen. We don't know. You're a citizen or you're not one. So when I look at people saying, hey, and I just, just want to talk specifically about this, not necessarily that you're saying this,

but people are that this makes it so hard for the next time and the next time and the next time. Stop standing up straight for these people. The reality is they are the police. They take your tax dollars to look into missing persons cases. They don't have the right to not approach every single case with the same vigor. Whenever we say that like a false claim means that the police are going to move forward and not take it the same way. Like we're letting them off the hook.

We're letting everyone whose job it is to look after people in this situation off the hook. Like if you're an activist and you cared about missing people before Carly Russell pulled this hoax and then you stopped caring after you never cared in the first fucking place. You never gave a shit. Like you never cared. You have to, you every single time you have to still care. And the police, I said this is a Jesse thing. That's going to make people not believe. And that's going to make the cops less likely to spend resources.

why are you, Chloe Stein in May of 2023 in Pennsylvania is a woman that faked her own disappearance. White woman. I have a list of white women who lied. Susan Smith, liar, said the two black men came and abducted her shit. Like, you remember that, the kids crying, she drowned the kids. Bethany Sorrow, Bonnie Sweden, they lied. When a white woman, white women have a white woman. lied for ages about all kinds of shit.

We can talk about it. Have lied for ages. Always blaming on a nigger, which I like about Carl Lee because she blamed on a white person. That's just standing up in the right way. Didn't get any niggas in trouble. Does that stop them from going out? Every single time a white lady is gone for more than 30 minutes at the movies and making a national moment out of it? No. It does. doesn't because they are citizens. Carly Russell lied. She wanted some cheez-its and some dick probably.

And she went to see whoever that guy is that they keep putting on the thing. So what? It's fine. Don't take it to, don't, don't, don't, don't take it to heart. Everyone. It's fine. She lied. Van.

Man. It's fine. The reason we talk about the epidemic of black missing. women in this country is because the people who are supposed to be doing their job aren't when it comes to looking for missing black women. So what? So what I'm saying is you do this whole, you sure gave a lot of credit to police officers in what you just said.

No, I didn't. Yes, you said police officers, it's their job. They take tax dollars to look for missing women. Right. Okay. They don't do it when it comes to black women statistics. What does that mean? So what I'm saying is, what I'm saying is the reason, I don't know what the Hoover Police Department will do the next time a black woman is reported missing. God forbid, in their town, city, whatever it may be. I don't know. But what I'm saying is, is that the reason people are saying,

oh, it might deter people is that you, yes, the police, there's the police department. Yes, they have specific duties and responsibilities. But these are human beings who might, might you let their emotions get to them and they might second guess it. You're over here talking about what police officers should do. Police officers are not supposed to beat the shit out of black and brown people yet they do. There are bad officers in every single police department. So you can't sit here and say that they're not going to be like, well, you know, you just don't know. And that's where people are coming from.

But in my opinion, you're arguing against yourself. And I'll tell you why. what I'm talking about is being free, right? And that means, what that means is I can wear a hoodie if I want, okay? That means I can pass a counterfeit bill at a store without being killed for it. That means that there's nothing that I can do that then makes it okay for a police officer or an agent of the state to shirt their constitutional duty because I'm a citizen just like everybody else. That means it don't matter how I act if I'm not posing a threat or if I'm if I'm not posing a threat to a cop, they can't kill me.

If I'm not doing something criminal, the cop can't put me in jail. And it doesn't matter how they perceive me. It doesn't matter if the cops think that somebody could be lying about something. Their job is to investigate it. And to me, the reason why I say you're arguing against yourself, It's because you're saying at the same time, cops don't have the right to kill us. But then by saying that the way we act with police,

like influences what they do is giving cops the right to kill us. When did I say that? Listen, what you're saying is, what you said, listen, what you said was this. You said cops don't have, cops are not supposed to do this. Cops are not supposed to do that. Cops are not supposed to do this. I agree. I agree that they're not.

Right. And the reason why they're not supposed to do that is because there's a set of rules and standards that precludes them from doing that. Right. That has nothing to do with you. It has nothing to do with how you act. What you're supposed to do in this country, if you are a free citizen, a full citizen of this country, right? If you pay tax dollars to a police department, you're supposed to have freedom from persecution. you're supposed to have access to investigation and you're supposed to have freedom of movement.

That means it don't matter if you walk down and say, fuck the police, they can't pull out a gun and shoot you in your head. It doesn't matter if a black woman two weeks ago lied about being abducted. The cop's job is to go out and investigate the next one. And every time we say, listen, every time we say, in my opinion, well, the fact that she lied is going to make police officers not take it as seriously or, God forbid, that police officers are human and human beings bring certain biases to things, yo, there is so much space in there for upholding

the idea that a black person in America is only as good as their conduct, that they only deserve as much citizenship and respect as how good they act. And what we've seen to me is we never act good enough for them to do what they're supposed to do anyway. Like, she lied. It's she lied. It's funny to me that she lied. White women lie about getting abducted all the time. And the moment that we say that it's okay or not even that it's okay, that we look down on Carly Russell, who now has to bear that entire burden because

she did something stupid. And now it's, oh, the next time they're not going to care. We're not asking for them to care. It's their job to care. But they don't all the time. And that's the only thing I'm saying, I'm not making space for anything in this.

I'm just saying when you talk about white women who lied and they continue to look for them versus black women lying. And so that means because they do it for white women, they'll also do it for black women. No, I'm not saying they would. I'm saying that they should. Of course they should.

I agree with you. I'm saying that anything short of that expectation leaves room for them to do something. Why do people have that expectation? What do you mean? Why do people have that? Why do people have the expectation that when a white woman lies, they'll still continue to look for a white woman versus when a black woman lies, they won't?

Why do people have that expectation? Because white women are free and black women aren't. That's why. Yes. And because statistically it shows that. So what I'm trying to understand is, so we submit to that? We submit to the idea. We are submitting to it every time.

No, I think, no, I think for people to say that they're disappointed or upset with what Carly did doesn't mean that they're submitting to anything. I think people can be disappointed. I think people can say like it does, and not even just with the police, the way that all these people, black, white, brown, whatever, the way all these people took the social media to do that, it's innately with. human nature. I mean, it's an alienly within humans to say, maybe say, well, maybe what if it's this? That is going to happen. I don't care what you say.

That's going to happen. Maybe not with the police, it'll definitely happen with other people. And all I say is, don't let it believe people when they get, when it's reported, whether it's true or not. So this is what I'm saying. Number one, like, it is bad what Carly did. It's a terrible thing to do to worry everybody like that.

It's a terrible thing to do. I can't help but laugh at at fucking Google and taking. I'm just not that type of serious, nigga. I'm sorry. It was funny. But it's a terrible thing. It's a terrible thing to do. This is what I'm saying.

Let me ask you this. Mm-hmm. Duke LaCross case. Mm-hmm. Black woman says she was raped. Mm-hmm. She lied. Mm-hmm.

Does that make it okay for anybody to be skeptical about the next black woman that says that she was sexually assaulted? No, and I'm not saying it does. Okay. So listen. So what I'm saying is, I know that you don't believe that because that would be preposterous to believe. What I'm saying is it's okay to be disappointed in Carly Russell because of what she did and everything that she put everyone through. I feel like the conversation about how victims will be impacted by this is inappropriate. And the reason why I feel like the conversation is inappropriate is because it assumes a framework. that to me is backwards. And that framework is as long as everybody is telling the truth about everything that happens, then the police and people at large should take it seriously.

But when people start telling them, but they should take it seriously whether some people are telling the truth or some people are lying. All of them should be taken seriously. Sure. Because we are full human beings and full citizens. And anything else is like, to me, it reinforces white supremacy. It reinforces white supremacy to say, like, George goes into the store.

Should George have been using a counterfeit bill? No, it's illegal. Does the counterfeit bill mean that the cops can kill him? No. Like, if you want to go through the list of people that have been killed by the police officer, I mean, the reality is we have more interactions with police. The police have a job to do. And us, as a society of black people, we have a job to do.

And that's to care about one another, whether or not this person lied or this person told the truth. I agree with that part. And the reason why I bring up all of these other women is because I see so many people saying right now. And I do partly think that, and we can move off this after, because I accept what you're saying. But I do partly think that there's this thing to where black people are saying. still embarrassed in front of white people when stuff like this happens. When the Jesse thing happened

and Jesse, when the Jesse thing happened and Jesse said all of that, everyone was like, oh my God, when the next time a black person says there's a hate crime and blah blah, blah, people aren't going to be, this makes us look so crazy. It makes us look unsurious. Like, it makes the issue of

black women of being abducted look less serious. How can the issue look less serious? I wouldn't say that. That's an To whom? I would say that. Look like serious to whom. It's a serious issue. It's something that we should be talking about

and devoting resources to. Stop trying to be clean for these people who already think you dirty. Like the best thing you can do for yourself is force these people to do their fucking jobs. It's their job. I don't give a fuck how human they are. It's their job.

Investigate missing people. equally. Don't matter who lie. I don't care if 10 Carly Russell's. Carly out here. What do you think Carly's going to say next? What is she going to say? I can't wait.

I can't wait to hear from Carly. Carly, I think right now, I fuck with Carly, straight up. I want to see a Carly Russell Zeus Network show. Get on it, Natalie. All right. Let's move on to the next topic.

Carly Russell. I'm sure Zeus will call. I'm sure Zeus would love to capitalize on that opportunity. I'm going to say this. bro. Carly kind of pro-black. Man, please move on. Carly blame white people. She did all of this. A lot of people are saying she did all of this so she could go see a black man.

Think about what she put America through for a black man. That's what a lot of brothers are some of that are the sexes. That's what a lot of brothers are asking for. Okay. Go get yourself a Carly then. Nah, man. Not you. Just in general.

Jason Aldeen, did you see this? Try that in a small town. It's not funny. Yes. Yes. It is funny. Is it funny too? So you just saw that,

you just on a roll. This is funny to you? I mean, Jason Aldean just basically bit, it made a whole song saying, I'm going to kill y'all niggas. Basically. There's been two people

that I have refused to interview when I worked at Extra. One was Mel Gibson. And two, was Jason Aldeen. Because they wouldn't allow me to ask specific questions about his blackface.

And you can intro the topic, but Jason Aldein, if you know anything about him, country music singer, has a history of controversy, and one of them being blackface, one of them continuously wearing a Confederate flag

during performances, his wife, making the children wear hiding from Biden shirts, among other things, They're anti-vaxxers. He's been a big Trump supporter after the insurrection and has even put out thoughts about election fraud.

The man is a menace. And to say more than that, he's a racist. But to say, but all of that precedes what he did with this recent song. So he did a song called Try That in a Small Town. And a song is basically about, you know, you big city slicker motherfuckers. With your BLM riots, your BLM riots and your LGBT,

huh? Your drag shows. All your coconut milk drinking Keen Y motherfucking sucking, this is America. And I'm the sheriff around here, Jason Aldeen. So he, he made the song.

And he's also the country music artist of the decade. I didn't realize that by the Academy of Country Music. He big like that? He's big, yeah. And his whole thing is, you know, this image is his image. He performed this song, which he says is about small towns coming together to protect their culture. He performed in front of the Mari County Courthouse in Columbia, Tennessee. This is the site of 1946, Columbia.

race riot and the 1927 mob lynching of an 18-year-old black teenager named Henry Chote. So this is the place that Jason Aldeen decided to do this song, which is essentially a warning, a cultural warning to everyone. Not to do some of the things you see in these big cities in small town. People have said it's a dog whistle. Others labeling it pro lynching. He talks about having a gun that his granddaddy gave him for, you know, something happening in the future in the song. He's like, look, it's Jason Aldine, bro.

He's fucking ready. Aldine said, there's not a single lyric in the song that references race or points to it, and there isn't a single video clip that isn't real news footage. And while I can try and have respect, while I can try and respect others to have their own interpretation of a song with music, this one goes too far. In 2015, obviously he dressed up like,

Will Wayne wearing black face makeup and a wig with dreadlocks like you said. I mean, I mean, what do you do here? I mean, it's something that happened. Like what's the, I mean, I look at stuff like this and I go, okay, well, there's some country music singers that are racist. To me, the more important thing about this is not necessarily Jason Aldean in this song. It's how the rest of the country music community will accept or not accept this. it seems to me they have an opportunity to make a statement here about what they deem appropriate in country music

I mean it's not country artists have called out Jason Aldine before for things that he's done it's been mainly from everything I've seen country women and country music I did not know he was the artist of the decade which is shocking but a lot of people are supporting this

because they're just saying this is just good old country music and he represents, you know, the towns that I grew up in. You guys, Columbia, Tennessee is like 50 miles south of Nashville, which is where Jason Aldine is. He passed up a bunch of small towns with county courthouses on his way to Columbia, Tennessee. He very knew exactly what he was doing by going to a site that between 1927 and 1933 lynched. multiple black men, young black men, at that courthouse, throwing their bodies over the courthouse, hanging them from that.

Jason Aldeen goes up to this courthouse and hangs a United States flag, throws a flag over where those young men were lynched. This man knows exactly what he's doing. You ask, what do you do? I mean, you got Trump saying this is a fabulous song, Desantis saying this a fabulous song. I don't know.

Of course they like it. Oh yeah. They're buddies. You know what I think? This is what I want. I want somebody to, I want a response. See,

this is what I ask for from hip hop. You know, and hip hop, the body count for black people is very high. We kill a lot of niggas in hip hop.

We kill more niggas in hip hop songs than country music could ever dream of. It's facts. This is a fact. So I want that. I want a song called Try That in My Hood.

I'm calling on one of you rappers out there. Try that in my hood. Parody to Jason Aldeen's song. See, this is why I really should be because I would have been jumped on this already if I was wondering. What's pulling you back? Let's do it.

Come on. But if I get out there rapping with Bozeman in the video, it's not going to look serious. I don't look like that. That's not my era. You know what I'm saying? Try that in my hood. and you know Jason Aldeen

and we got a Jason Aldeen fucking statue we put a fucking nine to his hair we put it boom you know what I'm saying Try that at my hood I need somebody y'all always want to dis each other hip hop

y'all want to dis each other and go back and forth with each other this dude is daring black people to come to his town he daring black people to come to his town diss him this a white dude bro like this Jason Aldean

diss him try that in my hood boom Wale, YG, I don't know, reason we had on the podcast, man. Hit Boy, child to hit boy and his dad and the beautiful music they're putting out. Have them on the podcast. Problem, we got coming on the podcast.

We need to fight back. That would be so dope. Go to that same place. Yeah, try that in my hood. You know, pitches Jason Aldine, shoot them up. Whole nine. I don't know, you go hard. Like, we used to go as hard on the white people

as we do as they go on us. And they go on us. Yes. And as they go on us. Yes. He dish y'all. He's talking about y'all. He disish y'all. All right.

We've got to talk to Adam Cohen now. Adam Cohen is the author of Supreme Inequality. We have to talk about the Supreme Court. Rachel loves Supreme Court. She's a big fan. I'm not responding to this. I used to. Now, Rachel, it's over.

Adam calling up next. Okay. There have been a bunch of people down there in Washington they're making some trouble. Depending on who you are. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need Weather Tech floor liners in the summer

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Maybe they're making trouble for you. Maybe they're freeing you by taking away other people's rights. Those people are known as the Supreme Court. Now, you might think that Supreme Court has a specific problem with their political leanings now. There is a man that has written a book that would tell you no. that the court has some issues that go back at least one or two generations. Maybe further.

That man's name is Adam Cohen. He is a journalist, author, lawyer, former senior writer for Time magazine, assistant editorial page editor at the New York Times. Jesus, Adam, you got a lot of stuff going on here. Served that special policy advisor to New York State Governor Andrew Cuomo. Served in the mayor's office, I'm not going through your entire bio here because you've done too much stuff. It makes me feel weird about myself. He's the author of five books, the most recent book, Supreme Inequality, Supreme Court's 50-year battle for a more

unjust America. Adam, thank you for joining us on Higher Learning. I'm going to get right into my first question. The Supreme Court's 50-year battle for a more unjust America. A lot of people will be shocked at that title because people look at the Supreme Court as an entity that has granted fundamental American rights that has been the moral sword in so many of the cases that have been valued throughout its history. Why is the Supreme Court an entity that has a battle for a more unjust America? Tell people. So that's a great place to start. So I think probably you came to all this with the same explanations I did from what we learned in school, right? That the Supreme Court is the force that stands up for the little guy, right? It's the

it's the part of our government that makes sure that everything's fair. And when they taught us that in school, they tended to talk about things like Brown versus Board of Education and integrating the segregated schools in the South. And Miranda warnings, you have the rights for Maine, Salmon. Now, there was some of that. But what we don't learn is that that was a very short period of time. It was basically from 1954 when Brown was decided until Nixon turned to court over and made it very conservative in the early 1970s. If you look before that period, well, I mean, what was the court doing, let's say, during slavery? They were upholding slavery. They were ordering the slaves to be returned to their masters. When Dred Scott sued to try to get his freedom, they threw that out.

So, like, we know that during the early times, the court was not on the side of, you know, what's fair and righting on the side of the little guy, certainly not on the side of black folks. And then after Nixon takes over the court, there's been this series of rulings from the 70s through now, that have really been all about helping the powerful, helping the rich. And we've all heard of some of these cases like Citizens United, right, where the court said that corporations can spend money to win elections, that they're essentially people. And on and on and on.

So that's the court in general. And we have this little period where they did some good stuff. But now we're in this whole new period, six to three conservative majority. And they are kind of going crazy, as you said in your intro. It's, I practice law. And it's, you were, the way that you were taught about the Supreme Court, just as you said, it's, it's almost mind-blowing when you really read into it and you dig into your book of how they're really not as supreme as we were taught that they were. And in reading your book, I mean, even, it's interesting too because we're at a time now where we're seeing people be revisionist in wanting to rewrite history or keep certain things out of the history books or just get rid of books in general.

But it's interesting because since 1953, it seems like they have been trying to, or I guess since the Warren court started, they have been trying to take away everything that that court did. And this has been in motion for a while. Can you talk about that? And how did we not see it when it was so obvious? I mean, even Justice Warren warned the government about this, that this was going to happen. Yet it happened. And we happened. And we. allowed it. Totally right. And I think the tragic era of the court begins just what you're describing right after Earl Warren leaves. And you know, what happened is we had this liberal court. Nixon gets elected with a promise to turn the court to the right. And he does do that. He's able to get four nominations in three years. And then right away, we get a totally different court that did some stuff that I really think of as tragic. And I want to mention a couple of cases because I just think they symbolize where we really started going down the wrong path. So the conservative court takes over.

There is a case out of Texas challenging the unequal funding of the public schools in Texas. The funding was so unequal. There were wealthy districts that had everything, fancy labs and fancy, you know, everything. And then four districts right down the street that had, you know, horrible conditions, unsafe conditions. A lawsuit was brought on behalf of the four small children. It won in the district court. It won. It wanted. the Court of Appeals. It gets up to the U.S. Supreme Court five to four, just because Nixon has taken over the court, they overturn it. So there had been a ruling saying every school district in Texas has to get equal funding. If that had been upheld by the Supreme Court, that would have been

the rule everywhere in the United States. Imagine if we equalized school funding across districts in the 1970s, all the kids who would have grown up with much better educations would be adults now. It's been decades of that. The very next year, They get a case out of Detroit where lawsuits brought on behalf of the school children of Detroit saying that they're being deprived of an integrated education, right? Because at that point in the 70s, there have been a lot of white flight and the Detroit public school systems pretty much all black. So there's no way to integrate the schools with just the kids in Detroit.

So the lawyers brought a very smart claim. They said, you know what, in order to get an integrated education, we need to cross the suburban lines, right? The white kids are now in the suburbs, the black kids in the city. Let's come up with an intra-district remedy that will bring the kids together from the suburbs and cities and get everyone educated and integrate education. If they had done that, they came up with a plan that would have made all the schools about 70% white, 30% black. Everyone in the Detroit area would have gotten integrated education. The district court ordered that and there was a plan in place. The court of appeals ordered that.

the Supreme Court by the same five to four vote because Nixon packed the court overturned that. So in two years, we're getting school children are not going to get a right to equal funded education, and they're not going to get a right to integrated education. And that was the 70s, and it's just going to out from there. Yeah, you talk about some of the cases very early on in the book, the Lili Ledbetter case. There's a case that I always struggled to remember the name of Lululeb better was, actually, you know what, Why don't you tell people about the details of that case and what it did to equal pay for women and how Congress actually had to act to undo what the Supreme Court did?

Why don't you tell people a little bit about the Leather Better case? Exactly right. And when Congress acted, when you just said it was the first law, actually, the President Obama signed into what we became president, was overturning this case. And I love this case because I hate this case because it's such an awful case, but it shows the way in which the justices will just twist the law to get the result they want. Lily Ledbetter sued for paid discrimination. She was the only female manager in a tire plant in Alabama where it was extremely hard to be a woman manager, particularly back then. And the stuff she put up with and the threats and the abuse of it.

But she does it. She's really strong. and she's a manager. And one day, she finds out that all along, they've been paying her less than the mailman managers. And she had no way of knowing that because, like most workplaces, they don't tell you what all your, you know, co-workers are making. So you just know what you're making.

And you assume you're being treated fairly big mistake. But anyway, one day she finds out that she's being underpaid, violates the equal pay loss. She brings a lawsuit. It goes up to the Supreme Court. You would think she would have to win, because she's doing the same work the men are doing, she's getting drastically underpaid.

They came up with this crazy rule where they said that she had to file her complaint within some very limited period of time, I think it was 45 days of when she was first underpaid. But the thing is, she didn't know when she was being underpaid. She had no clue. How could she? And they know that there's no way she could know.

And Justice, Peter Ginsburg, wrote a great dissent saying that the court is ignoring the way workplaces work. How would you know to bring a complaint your being discriminated against if they don't give you the information need? So it was outrageous, but it was just clear. They just didn't want to give her a right to equal pay. So they came up with this crazy statement that she had to have filed when it started, no way that she couldn't do on that. Then as we said, Congress did rectify that the Lent Better Fair Pay Act. President Obama signed with a lot. Very unusual, I mean, that was great.

But it's rare. There was a Democratic Congress at that time, Democratic president. You know, now we've got a divided Congress. It's not going to overturn anything the Supreme Court does because the Republican House isn't going to do it. So that's a rare example of where the Supreme Court actually got slapped down and people just said, this is crazy what you're doing. But most of the things they're doing, they're getting away with. Question. One quick follow up.

One quick follow up. Is that okay, Rach. Yeah, yeah. Go ahead. Because I wanted him to talk about the Lilly-Libera case. I really want people to know about that. But my question is why? The court obviously has this history of ruling against the little guy.

And you talk about so many different ways in the book, from contributing to mass incarceration with some of its decisions, to throwing corporate money into politics, to striking down equal pay. You know, why? Why does the court consistently, make these decisions that seem undemocratic and not in the interests of the average working American?

It's a great question. And there's so much wrapped up in that with, you know, psychology and how do people, you know, think about what's fair in the world. I mean, one thing I'll say is if you look at who's in the conservative majority, one thing we've learned in recent weeks and months is they hang out with a lot of billionaires, right? They hang out with a lot of billionaires who pay their bills. They go to really fancy retreats.

They go to places we can't even imagine fancy fishing trips in Alaska that who knows what's going on, they go for free. A lot of them have just aligned themselves with the wealthy and the powerful. And yeah, I mean, you would think where does fairness kick in? When does this sense of like we got, you know, Lily Ledbetter is this great woman who's like really working hard and she's doing her best and she's doing a great job and she's being underpaid. Why don't you care? But, you know, for the most part they don't. And, you know, in the book, I talk about how one, there are some feminist scholars who early on were writing that, you know, it's great that we now have a woman on the court. This is what Sandra Day O'Connor is right.

They said, because women view problems differently, and they're much more likely to be sympathetic with families and children and things like that. I was always skeptical because I certainly have known there are a lot of very right-wing, not very nice women as well as men. So Sandra Day O'Connor gets on the court, and very quickly, she writes one of the meanest rulings the court has ever handed down. It was a case in which you guys will probably remember this. There was a poor family in rural South Dakota, and suddenly the school district starts charging for the bus, right? The family was like, you know, they were on public assistance and food stamps. They didn't have the money to pay for the bus, and the school was very far away. So they sued, and they said there should at least be some kind of a waiver for poor families of California.

get on the bus, and they go up to the Supreme Court, Sandra O'Connor, the woman who's supposed to care about little children, says, you know, this is ridiculous. There's no action, there's no constitutional right to a public education. States just have decided to do that. You have no right to it. If there's no right to a public education, how could you possibly claim you have a right to a free bus ride there?

So, like, when you read that, you just think, you know, what is wrong with this woman? Like, it's this whole file trying to get to school. And, you know, no compunction about just slapping him down. So, you know, I don't know. I mean, I think there's a little bit of strand of meanness in some ways as well. You know, we talk about how there's this checks and balances, you know, within our country. And you have these nine individuals who are appointed for life and regularly make these huge, crucial, unreviewable decisions that affect so many people that, as you pointed out,

don't reflect what the district court may have done and the court of appeals may have agreed with them or whatever, you know, however it works. Yet they're still able to do this. And it seems like I just don't understand why we're not talking about this enough. And also what you said about what happened under the Obama administration with the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act. Why are we not seeing more of that or more of like a push to talk about Congress using their power in regards to making decisions that reflect what the citizens of this country actually want or what's in their best interest? No, it's a great point. You know, I think we're starting to see some of that. We saw it with the abortion ruling, right? Like, I think that people were really shocked by the

debate in which people rose up against that, right? And even in like states like Kansas, they started voting, you know, in favor of abortion rights. I think that really energized people. I think we saw it a little bit with the affirmative action ruling. But in general, I think, you know, people feel powerless, right? Because for just the reason you said, the way this is set up, what can you do? They're nine people. They're there for life. You can like yell and scream, but they're going to do what they want. We now know, as I mentioned already, that some of them are thinking really, really generous gifts from billionaires. Sometimes billionaires have business before the court. We're all outraged about that. we can't even get Congress to pass a law to stop that.

So I think people feel fairly impudent in the face of a lot of this. And another thing about why we're not seeing more opposition from elected officials is there's this horrible feedback loop where one of the things the court has been doing the most, the right wing element of court, is striking down campaign finance regulations, right? So I mentioned Citizens United, but there actually had been in the early 70s after Watergate, Congress actually passed some pretty strong campaign finance rules that would have really taken a lot of the money out of politics. The Supreme Court struck that down. They've been striking down campaign finance regulations ever since. Now, in the finance, you know, for a lot of people, a lot of working people, a lot of people who are experts in this,

sounds a little bit arcane, but what it really means is that the court is allowing rich people to buy economists and the president. It means that corporations and rich people can now give huge amounts of money and spend huge amounts of money. money. And that's always a quick pro quo. That, you know, Congress and the president always responds to their donors. So the court has basically cleared the way for rich people and corporations to have an enormous enough influence on some elected officials. Why are we surprised that Congress isn't being tough around the court? Because, you know, look at who's paying their bills. So I think it's a real problem. Hopefully, you know, this ethic stuff, I think, has actually gotten people pretty outreach. Now that we know, like, Clarence Thomas has, you know, been taking all this money from

this billionaire and the billionaire, you know, bought his mother's house and all this stuff. And now Samuel Alito getting these free trips to, you know, Alaska. I think people are now beginning to wake up the world, but there's still this question. What can everyone do? They're there for life, right? Yeah. Adam, what is the Constitution factor into all this? the Constitution is the document that is supposed to ensure, you know, American rights are fundamental rights and supposed to protect us and essentially protect American citizens from harm. It's supposed to be the document that binds us all. And the Supreme Court is the body that interprets the Constitution and decides if something is unconstitutional and going against somebody's rights. And it would seem like in a lot of.

of these cases that they're clearly not doing that, particularly with Ledbetter or some of the other stuff that you're talking about. It seems like, you know, there would be equal protection laws. There would be all kinds of things that would preclude them from making some of the decisions that they're making. Are they skirting the Constitution in doing this? Or is the Constitution something that actually set an American status quo that ensures that they'll always be a permanent underclass. Do we have a bad, we have a different view of that document? These are great questions. So I think there's, there's a lot to unpack there. But one thing is, yes, a lot, I mean, I love the U.S. Constitution. I think it's an amazing document. It has some

weaknesses, let us say, and their historians have always pointed out, it was, you know, mainly put together by fairly wealthy people. And to some extent, it does protect property rights and things like that. It doesn't have a lot of language about protecting poor people, as we know early on, you know, the compromise was that including slavery. I mean, it's not a perfect document. That's one part of it. So there are things that it would be nice if they were in the Constitution, like more rights for working people, labor unions, and, you know, poor people and all that, not there. In the 60s, there was an attempt to try to read into the protection clause, some kind of rights for poor people, even a right to minimum subsistence that didn't get anymore.

So we've got the limits of the document. The second thing, though, is that this court is very good at using the Constitution in the way it wants to. So when you look at the recent affirmative action laws, they use the 14th Amendment to Harvard and University of North Carolina couldn't have affirmative action. Well, you know, we all know that the 14th Amendment was enacted two helped newly freed blacks. So like that's how it got in the Constitution. But that's not how they're using. Similarly, the First Amendment, which could be an incredible. incredibly powerful amendment for the rights of ordinary people to speak and all that.

They have turned that into the amendment that they use to strike down all these campaign finance laws. And we mentioned Senate of United. They have literally said that, you know who has first amendment rights? Corporations, they need to be able to speak in elections. And when you read the First Amendment, you see the word speech there. You don't see the words spend a lot of money. But they've turned the First Amendment into it applies to corporations and applies to spending money.

So suddenly, Texaco, which has corporate resources beyond anything you and I can imagine, their right to spend all that money on attack ads and all that is in the First Amendment, whereas I guess you and I, we get to go on the street corner and kind of yell at people. But that's how they're reading the document. Right. Do you think we'll come to a place where there is more transparency with the, Supreme Court as people are starting to become more aware of the history of the Supreme Court and becoming more outraged at some of the more recent decisions. And I mean that in the sense that

we see the arguments that come before the court, but then it's like they disappear. We don't really see how these decisions are made, you know, like what's going on behind the scenes as they're talking to one another, maybe meeting with people who knows, not trying to speculate. But I'm just saying we don't see anything until it comes out. They don't talk to the press. Do you You think that maybe we will get some more transparency, or should we have that in the future? It's a great question, and I hope so. I mean, one area to start would be, why are there not cameras in important, right? You can turn it on C-SPAN, you can see everything Congress is doing. What is so special about what's going on in that room that the public can't watch it?

I'm sorry, that's a public event when there's an oral argument. There is an audience, but it's a small audience, and you can't get in the important argument. But why is it not just kind of cameras there so we can all watch it. Why is there not more transparency about all these gifts and things that we're now learning about in the backhand way that some of the justices are not even, you know, filling out their forms properly. And yeah, one of it goes on behind the scenes. You know, they all meet quietly and they trade votes and all that. We don't know how that goes on. I think you're right. And to be a little critical of my own profession, it's interesting. Some people point out that the people who cover the court by and large, although there's

very intelligent, they're very hardworking, they do a lot of very important work in explaining to the public what is going on. There is a little bit of, I think, reticence to be too critical of the justices, right? Because one of your jobs when you cover the court is to kind of be friendly with the justices, trying to get little tips from them, and trying to get interviews. So it's interesting that the scandals we've been seeing recently about Clarence Thomas and Alito getting these gifts were not broken by regular reporters who cover the court. They were, you know, it's pro-publica.

It's people who are not regularly there. And I think there's a reason for that, because there is a little bit of a capture, people who are sort of part of that world. And so I think more, you know, even investigative journalists who are focusing on the court would be good things because I think there's scandals that you really need

an outsider to kind of shake up and talk about. Adam, we appreciate you for being so generous for your time. I have one last question for you, let you get back to doing some of the great work. Of course, the book is Supreme Inequality. Supreme Court's 50-year battle for a more unjust America. You should pick it up right now.

It is literally like taking a course in the history of it. Like even the machinations that went on to undo the Warren court from Nixon. Here I am doing a revisionist history on Nixon, looking at him as the last New Deal president. Chomsky's got my brain filled with all kinds of stuff. And then I read Adams book. And Nixon goes back. to being an asshole right away.

He's a demon. Like the whole deal, you know, trying to look at it through both sides and then I come upon this. What's the answer here is my question? Our term limits for Supreme Court justice, the answer. Is a better, more enforceable ethics standards, the answer, more stringent ethics standards, should I say. Packing the court with a more liberal justices,

right now to undo some of this damage. What's the answer to turning around the Supreme Court and making it so that they have less of an injurious presence in the lives of average Americans? Great question. I would say the answer is

quite possibly all of the above, right? Because we need to use whatever tools are available, right? Because, you know, it is a political battle that's going on right now. Like they want to act like they're just, you know, interpreting the law. But we know that when they get appointed, you know, President Trump says, I have a list here of very right-wing, you know, nominees who have been chosen for me by, you know,

these better, like, it's a political process. They're being put there to be political. So I think we need to be political back. And yes, when people maybe don't realize is Congress has a huge amount of power here. The number of justices, non-justices, that's not in the Constitution. It didn't used to be nine. It got raised tonight. Congress can make that any number of wants. And if they just start talking about changing numbers, that might intimidate the rightly justice a little bit. I think term limits are absolutely appropriate. No one, you know, Amy Comey Barrett could be there for another, you know, 30 or 40 years. So yeah, all of this stuff, more transparency, more criticism and all that.

But there is a battle, but one side is fighting a lot more than the other now. So I think all of this is a way to push back. Yeah, absolutely. And I was my question that kind of goes along with that was, Do you think we'll be a day where we'll see another court come through like the Warren Court did? And that actually stays for a significant amount of time. You know, I'm always a little bit an optimist. I mean, maybe that's dumb.

But I do think the pendulum swing, you know, I mean, the truth is, you know, the Democrats could take the presidency again, you know, in a couple years. They could take it after that. Eventually, the Democrats may start getting some nominations. And, you know, six to three sounds terrible. But, you know, Nixon got four nominations in three years. You know, it's not impossible that, you know, in a few years, you know, if everything cuts right, that maybe we'll once again get a little majority. So I'm choosing to be optimistic.

So we have to play dirty. We have to force someone to resign. That's what he did. We have to. Yeah, no, I know. That's what we have to do. Well, let's say win elections. Anyway.

One elections. The book is Supreme Inequality. Supreme Court's 50-year battle for a more. on Just America. Man, thank you so much for joining us on higher learning. Very eye-opening stuff. What else you got out there for us to read, man? Plug something else.

Oh, boy, that's a tough one. Uh, uh, uh, uh, I don't know. I'm writing a book now that's just so unrelated to this. And I'm not talking about yet, but it's, it's a long book, but it's like from a different era. And it's really interesting, but it's sort of not like political all. So my mom is weird,

written in the 18th, but sorry, sorry about that. All right. Well, we'll keep up with you. We'll keep our eyes on you. Everybody run out and get the book right now. Thank you so much for joining us on higher.

You guys were amazing. Thank you so much. That was good. That's a good interview. That was a great interview. And I'm thankful that you introduced me to that book. Everybody needs to go read that book.

It's amazing. And he was great. I can't wait to see what he's right next. Isn't this why? just to revisit this one more time. Isn't this why we need to judge on the Supreme Court? My dad is a good man. He's a good man.

Yes, we do. We do. I would love to read some of his dissents. My dad often puts, no, he often puts, like, music lyrics in his stuff. You lie. Like, he'll call me, I swear. Or he says it, like, in his, in his, like,

not a sentencing, but just like when he's, maybe he doesn't sentencing. Whoa, whoa, that's not appropriate, man. Your dad can't be reading off Marvin Gaye lyrics. No, Marvin Gaye lyrics. Hold on, hold on. It's like, so I sentenced you to 50 years in federal prison. And like Marvin Gay once said,

mercy, mercy me. Things ain't what they used to be. It's not a sincere. But for some time to sign, he'll call me. And he'll be like, he'll be like, what's that Beyonce song? The gas away. Say, bro. Wait a minute, bro.

The judge, the judge, Wallyman. He puts on that robe, all that, listen, listen, he would be great on the Supreme Court because they got these district judges doing all the work. The caseload is heavy. And then they up here picking and choosing which cases they listen. they listen to and then they listen to them and then do whatever, you know, their donors want them to do.

Advance my father to the court. Let's start that position. Somebody put it on Change.org. Biden, put them on a, put him on the court. I'm probably the issue now. I'm going to be the issue. They'll be like, in 2018, your daughter said this.

That's funny. That's funny when your dad is being interviewed for the court and is not really talking about him. his stellar Marvin Gay, Beyonce judicial record. It's more about you and things that you've said and done. Are you aware of

two ladies named Trixie and Ronnie? Thank you, Senator. No, I'm not aware of them. I haven't heard of these people. Interesting. Direct you to the video monitor right here and is you dancing on stage at a G. concert from like

2013 like you're on stage and then what and then what I was just tell my boom boom clap I'll say just tell them we're strange tell them we're strange

um speaking of no this ain't me if this is if this is what you're saying way to this ain't me don't you dare sexy red

sexy red 25 years old she went to she made an appearance at a high school are you familiar with sexy red how could I not be Donnie

sweet booty Are you familiar with sexy red Yeah just vaguely though I uh Oh whatever Donnie No really We're listening to she was on the radio on the way back from dinner

after some of the sexes. And that was the first time I heard it on the radio. They played Pound Town on the radio? Playlists. Yeah, it was on the radio. L.A. radio. What do they say instead of my Coochie Pink and my booty hole brown? I think they just like bleeped that out.

Like it was just blank space. Just you fill in the blank. So Sexing Red made the song Poundown. she has pound town she has pound town spring break edition um pound town was a hit yeah she has different eras of pound town okay um i'm looking at this one guy it says black women are embarrassing themselves why would anyone want to marry it's like these niggas on the internet are crazy uh ben shapiro uh what did

a whole thing about Pound Town. It says this song has 16.9 million views and I'm disturbed. It's Pound Town is the name of the song. And Sexy Red is with N.E. Chopper.

I'm looking at. Sexy Red is with Sukehanna. She's been doing a thing. So look, she went to a high school is the thing. You guys have heard the song, Pound Town, like Pound Town.

My Pousy Pink, my booty, whole brown. That's funny. It's a very direct lyric. She went to a high school in St. Louis. it's on Twitter. And while she did not perform Poundown at this high school,

a lot of people still think it was inappropriate for her to be at the high school because of the lyrics of the song that she's famous for. Sexy Red says that she did not perform the song. She showed up to do some charity work for the school's prom. She said, y'all know, y'all do know I went there to give the boys money for their haircuts and girls' bundles for prom week because I remember when I needed help with my prom stuff.

So she needed help with her prom stuff. So she wanted to help them get right. So she went there. She did not perform pound time. But a lot of people were saying, hey, this song is too overtly sexually explicit for her to be there in front of the kids. She was going to perform the song, right? I don't think so.

Because the video shows there being a full DJ with a mic. She had a mic. And she walks into the gym and they mob her. So it's my understanding She planned to perform Would it have been pound town? I don't know I'm not familiar with her other music

Other than What does she say? There's another viral song that's on TikTok Something about You like my voice Like how it sounds I don't know Something about a song

I don't know I can't think of it right now You like sexy red, nigga. Give us some lyrics. No. Well, my point is, is the whole thing about she wasn't there to perform. I'm pretty sure she was. There was a full DJ.

She was being announced. It got too crazy. So you're saying sexy red is lying. Well, I don't know why there would have been a DJ if she wasn't there to perform. It could have a sound system. It's a pep rally. But what I'm saying is maybe there's a DJ just to spend music for, spend records for the kids. You never know.

Donnie, do you have the clip? Can you watch it? Did it look like it might have been a, her DJ, her personal DJ. It might have been. And I feel like you might be right, Rachel, because there's an emcee that is like yelling at the kids for having ran on the court.

And he's like, y'all mess it up. Y'all mess it up, go back to your seat. Oh, so you're saying this was a surprise performance of, it was definitely a surprise. Okay, so here's the thing. How do we know she was going to do Pound Town, though? I said that. Because she has other songs.

Okay, yeah. I said that I don't know if she's going to do Pound Town. But I would venture to say, all the songs are probably on the same level. I don't know how many songs she has. I said there was another one. I can't think of the lyrics. She has a thousand jugs.

She's got born by the river. That's probably, that's with Sukiana. So that's probably, you know, there's probably some pound time going on there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She's also got female Gucci-Main,

but we shouldn't say that we know about all her music from one song. No, but I mean, I just, whatever, fine, be fair. We don't know all of it. We don't, but like I said, I don't know if she was performing pound. But I'm not going to subscribe to the belief that she, I commend her for going there to give money and things for the kids that they need.

I love that she related it to a need that she had when she was their age and she was going back. And I don't think that whatever her music is or whatever her profession is should prevent her from being able to do good in the community. I think it's beautiful that she's giving back. However, I'd be hot if I was a parent that she came out there singing Poundtown. Would you be hot if you were a parent? But I'd be mad at the, but I would be after the principal, not her. That song should never be staying in front of the kids, in my opinion, even if they are listening to it on social. So if she, I mean, if she did Poundown, obviously that's not, that doesn't work, right?

Right. Right. My question is, would you be hot if Drake came and performed for the kids? No. On Drake's, a Drake song that I was listening to earlier today. I like this record. Drake says he's going to fuck the girl and the Vince Viano

he's going to fuck her in that he's going to fuck her in front of Messi he's going to fuck her in front of Chrysano Ronaldo he said when he see the bitch all he wants to see is right hand left hand left knee make that ass bounce make that ass jet ski like first of I love that verse I think Drake was cooking on that verse

let that jazz ski my blah blah my dad my thing is if sexy red can't go to perform at the prom, then no rapper can go. So that's not what I said. But I'm not saying that. I'm not saying you said anything.

I'm just saying this is my thing. For people that's mad that sexy red will go, right? Of course, it's about whatever song that you perform. Right. So obviously you can't do pound time for the kids, right? Maybe she has another song. Maybe she could do female Gucci Main or something else for the kids. But just to be mad that she's,

there. I agree. And not be mad at any other rapper that raps about killing people up or blowing people head off or none of that shit is a wild double standard. And it kind of shows to me the difference between sex and violence, right? Because I remember when I was, when I was at McKinley, this girl had wanted Master P to come. Master P had said that he was coming to the school. Shout out of P, by the way. Master P had said that he was coming to the school and she was supposed to interview Master P. I remember she did. Got her hair, did, and all kinds of stuff like that, right?

When she was in school, the day of Massapy was coming, then we find out that the principal said Master P can't come to the school. And we were super pissed off. Everybody was mad. And then, you know, my dad was like, son, I know that y'all mad that, you know, Master P is not coming to the school or whatever, but he was like, you know, I'll let you listen to your music and I heard you listening to your music. And he was like, you was listening to that Master P one time.

And Master P was cooking crack on the song. Like the crack was bubbling up. He's like, I'm not going to tell you not to listen to the song because, you know, grown man. I was a senior then. My dad had been calling me a grown man since I was 13 years old. He's like, a grown man. Listen to your music.

You know, you know what's going to happen to you if I catch you with anything like that around here. So, but like the school can't had a crack man in the school. Now, I don't think that I would boil Master P down to just being a crack man. I think that Master P has all kinds of things to offer kids, and I think it's cool for him to go to the school. But what I'm saying is, it can't be not cool for Little Kim to come to the school, but it's cool for Master P to come. And so when I see people saying, if she was going to do Poundtown, that's one thing. Can't do pound town. Right.

It can't do pound town. That's too sexually explicit for the kids. We don't want to do that. but just to say that her music is too sexual to have her in there if that's the case it's like three rappers that could go chance the rapper I'm saying you got like you got you really got your choice of chance logic

like you know what I'm saying you might who else who else might be able to go like Kendrick I guess Kendrick could be up in there Jay Cole maybe you know you get you don't have very many rappers that can go just think that a lot of what I saw about this had more to do with the fact that she said her booty hole was brown on the record. Yeah. You're right.

And that's not the song. But how do you, do you think that she's seen her own booty hole before? No, she told a story about a friend saying, something with the friend said it or she saw it. I don't want to like miss. The friend saw her. There's a story. It's something with the friend. Like that's where the lyric came from.

Her friend said something or did something. and that's where the lyric came from. Generally, do, because I've never seen my own, I've never seen my own butthole before. I've never seen it. Is that generally something, is that generally something

that women have seen, have they seen that more often than me? I have not seen mine. No, I don't know. So you're not sure. You couldn't make that song. I couldn't make it, but I could sing it. You like that.

See, I know. See, this is why the judge it's not going to be on the Supreme Court. They're going to take this clip right here and then the judge is not going to make it. I was talking to a friend and I was like, because so many people are so outraged by this song, right? Because of its popularity on social media.

And I'm like, when we were around this age, what was the song that was so taboo that would have made our parents upset? Do you remember what it would have been for you? So taboo that would have made our parents upset. Like if it was, like the song I said was my neck, my back. If that- My pussy in my car.

Yeah. But you got to put your neck into it. Yeah. Like if that was viral. Look how much you like that shit. If that went viral on Twitter, it would probably have, I mean, that's what's Twitter is TikTok, you have the same type of outrage. Or what's your fantasy?

The female version. Male or female. Male or female. There was, you also got, shout out Lord Infamous. You got Lord infamous lick my butt. Or you got like my butt, like my butt. You never heard that Lord Infamous? You got the Lord Infamous, lick my butt joint.

And you also got Slob on my knob. Oh, yeah. Checking with me. Then do your job. You know what I'm saying? So like all of the, but what I'm saying is there's never not been songs. Sure. That's that was the point.

We're just older now. But we all have songs. Yeah. Could James Brown sex machine? I guess because sex machine isn't really about fucking. No. It's about he's a sex machine.

Yeah. I don't know. I just saw a lot of people. I don't really give a fuck whether or not sexy red could perform at a high school or not. No, I just want to check everybody. When you were that age, you had your song, you were singing too. Shout to sexy red. I would love to have sexy red on the podcast.

Yeah, I think it would be great. Fucking great, man, sexy red. Donnie, do we have mailbag or not? No, no. back this week. We're tied on time. Okay, so no mailback this week. I will say one thing. Not Donnie checking us on time twice this week.

Yeah, sweet booty. Sweet booty. I bet Don't see his. Stop. Don't, Don't, don't. Like I said, we're tight on time. Yeah, tight. Yeah, okay.

So, Lou, I said that and you went straight to tight. I'm telling you, bro. I'm telling you y'all be a little off with y'all shit. Let me tell you y'all something real quick. Just keep an eye on these animals. These animals are not at all fucking with y'all. These animals are going crazy. I saw a dolphin getting on a surfer, a seal.

You saw him body bump? You saw him body bump that paddleboarder? I am so proud of my animal brothers. I'm with y'all. All right, we out. Regge, you got anything else? No, that's it. Oh, I do have something before we go.

Very quickly. very quickly, I have something before we go. There is something happening right now that is greatly, greatly, greatly dismaying and upsetting. Okay. I'm a founding member of the Gathering Spot Los Angeles, which is a black-owned co-working space in the West Adams neighborhood.

It is a fantastic space. It is a place where I can go with my partners and get writing done and get work done. It's a place where I can see other black creatives, mingle with them, talk to them, right? It's a place where there is community where the vibes are great.

And the gathering spot is not just a place that exists in Los Angeles. It actually didn't start in Los Angeles. It's not even close to it. It's starting at Atlanta by Ryan and T.K. To enterprising young black men who wanted to establish a space just as the LA space is,

just like it is in Atlanta, just like it is in D.C. TK. It's one of the founders of the gathering spot. It's no longer with them. And it was announced that a man named

Mike McCloskey was moving into the C-suite over at the gathering spot. It's a white guy. The older white guy. All right. I've looked into this a lot. There's a lawsuit that's going on.

There's all kinds of stuff that's going on with this entire. situation. I am not going to insert myself into the middle of it, but I am going to say this. I am no longer a member of the gathering spot. I have put my membership on hold and I plan to cancel it. I put it on hold while I looked into this. And now that I've gotten everything, all of the information out of it, I am going to cancel my membership at the gathering spot. The importance of the place wasn't in the first class service that was. there, the importance of the place wasn't in the great food, the great vibes.

It wasn't even in so much of the cleanliness or the ore. All of that stuff is top notch at the gathering spot. The most important thing at the gathering spot, at least the one that I was joined here in L.A. was community. That's the most important thing. That's the most important thing when you join a space like that. And if that, that community is in any way injured, the whole ethos and point of the place falls apart.

At that point, it might as well be the Soul House or the San Vicente bungalows or any of the number of social clubs slash co-working spaces that exist here in Los Angeles. The difference was how buttoned up things were and black things were from top to bottom. and I can't imagine why any entity at all would not want that to be the case. Very disappointed.

I'll find somewhere else to them. Take a thing in caps off, but do not stop learning. I am Van Lathen Jr. I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Bye.