Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Chris Harrison Is Stepping Away. What's Next for the 'Bachelor' Franchise?

Episode Date: February 16, 2021

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay discuss the Chris Harrison’s second Instagram apology and the decision for him to step away from the 'Bachelor' franchise (1:00), Justin Timberlake’s apology to Britney Spears and Janet Jackson (35:00), the acquittal of former President Donald Trump (54:00), and Beyoncé’s promotion for her upcoming ICY PARK Adidas drop (1:05:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors, what is up? Our learning is on. It is I, Van Lathan. It's me, Rachel Lindsay. Now, we have to say from the time. Oh, excuse me, I'm sorry, Rach. You weren't getting ready to say some. No, go ahead.

I want to hear what you say. I was about to say is there might be some extra ears that are listening to us right now. So if you're new to our community here, because of all of the, I'd say, developments over the past couple of days, and we welcome you. That's a nice word.

And developments. Rachel ending people's careers. Wow. Are the developments that we're talking about. Rachel just getting people. Well, I didn't realize you were on that side of it, Van. But good to know where I staying with you on this podcast. Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriatic arthritis,

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But I do want to say, welcome to all the new thought warriors that we do have. It's so exciting that we get to grow this community. Welcome. As you've got at the beginning of this, what Van just did is sarcasm. There's a lot of that that goes on in this podcast. But back to your initial question. How is my morning? Busy.

You know, it's Monday. Big news broke on Friday. Actually, news has been popping off all week in Bachelor Nation, but Friday, Chris announced that he was stepping down. Chris Harrison. Chris Harrison, yes, host of the Bachelor franchise for 18 years, stepping aside for the first time ever after an interview that he had with me on Extra. So you can imagine it's been a busy weekend,

busy weekend and a busy Monday morning. So let's start there. Let's start there. Go ahead. The fallout from all of this, it was trending all weekend. The Bachelor franchise, the franchise that you have been

so inextricably linked to is now embroiled in racial controversy. It got racial. It's racialisms that are happening. Chris Harrison, who is the face of that franchise, like you said, it's gone now.

You saw that headline and the first thing you thought was what? Well, I thought it was the same apology at first, right? It was black background, white letters. I was like, oh, no, when someone sent it to me, I'm like, yeah, yeah, he's already apologized. I've seen this. I was surprised at the swift action that was taken, whether it was on Chris's part, the network, Warner, I'm not sure,

but the fact that they have already made a decision that he does not need to be, you know, what's been filmed has been filmed. But anything further at the moment has come to a halt. I was shocked by it. How do I feel, you know, a lot of people today have been saying, was it the right thing? What do you think about that? That's more, that's harder for me to say. But I will say what also developed this weekend, and maybe this is where my answer lies,

what developed this weekend also were contestants coming together for the first time in a way I've never seen before. You've seen the women from the current season put out a statement saying that they stand with me, they advocate for change, and they do not appreciate what they saw transpire between Chris and I in that interview. Then it was a domino effect. The men from Clarenetia season did the same thing. Other leads who have never spoken out before are starting to speak out. So my question is, where do you go from here if you're Chris Harrison? If you have current contestants saying that they don't like what they saw, they don't stand for it, they're not about this,

how can he continue in this way? I don't know. Do you think he can't? As he would talk to, I don't know. I don't know, Van, you tell me. That's what he kept doing to me in the interview. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. Rachel, Rachel, who are you? Who are you to decide whether or not Chris Harrison can continue? Who are you? Who the hell am I, Rachel? You're triggered. It's bringing back. So, here's the thing.

And this comes from a non-batchelor point of view. And it's, it's, So a lot of times when these things come up in terms of when a show that deals sort of in, because The Bachelor is a show, right, but it's not scripted. So the fact that it's unscripted, there are a lot of things that are going to come up and be discussed in a franchise like that, that there's not a writer somewhere that's crafting them. They just things that come up on accident. Absolutely.

Being alive is really all about the things that come up on accident. I think that if you live through 2020, you know that. It's about the things that come up out of the blue. It's about the plans going wrong. And so this is an interesting moment to see how alive the Bachelor franchise really is. Because the reality is that as much as things have been tried to have been manicured, as much as things have been sort of put in place and they've tried not to offend and they've tried to appeal to everyone, when you deal in any sort of reality,

whatever percentage of reality that's going to exist on a show like that, do you have the opportunity for something like this to happen, where people's actual feelings and people's actual wants, needs, and goals are going to be at cross-purposes with what the show thinks it should be. And if it's at all real, then that's going to happen. And I think it's, to a degree, kind of impressive that they, been able to sort of stay out of these types of discussions before now. Do you think it's impressive?

Think about it, though, Van. They've never had to. They've never been challenged in this way, right? In 2017, I was the first. So who else, and I could have not done the things that I've done. So who else would have challenged them? Now, you did have in 2012 former contestants saying they suit the franchise. I remember that.

But that's pretty much, and that really, really didn't get that much attention. It really didn't go anywhere. And those contestants didn't make it far in the franchise, so they really didn't have the same platform. People dismissed it. And I think that's what they've always been able to do, is dismiss how people of color feel about why are you looking at me like that?

I'm looking at you like that. What you about to say. Now, I'm looking at you like that because something you just said, yo, I want to let everybody hear my voice. We should be running out of firsts. Right. It's like, it's like,

You know, I was listening to, shout out to my people down there in Baton Rouge, the Temple family. Kyle's Temple, Garrett Temple, Elliott Temple, shout out to them. I was listening to a podcast, Kyle's his dad, Kyle's Temple, Kyle's Temple Jr. was the first black player, basketball player at LSU. And it was all about David Duke because they were at LSU at the same time. And that was in 1970. And I remember thinking, damn, that's late to have your first. black player on your team in 1970.

That seems like a 1950s accolade. That seems like a 1960s accolade. But then when we getting into the 2017s and you got your first black anything, man, we got to get some of these first out of the way. When you said that, I was like, God damn, Bachelor. The Bachelor, shape up. And that's why it's not impressive.

It's not impressive because nobody's ever challenged them in this way before. So if anything, they're behind it, which is what their apology was in 2020. We've been on the wrong side of it and we vow to do better. So I think if anything that we can take from this is we got complacent. In 2020, we said, do better. You need to have leads, more leads of color. You need to have an apology. You need to have people in power that are of color that are making these decisions. You need to have storylines that are diverse. And they did some of that. And then we said, okay. And then look what happened last week. So if anything it teaches you, you can't stop. Like, you have to keep going. Just because some changes are made

doesn't mean that it's all good. And I think that's what this has shown us. Would you be upset if Chris Harrison returned as the host of The Bachelor? It's a great question. Well, like, why are we mincy words? Yeah. Would you be upset? Because I'm like, damn, it's a good question. Man, nobody's asking this question. Of course, Van. Of course, Van. That's the one. That's what I'm. That's what. while I pause, because I'm like, of course, man would ask me a question like this. I need to see what happens between now and the time that it potentially is announced that he's coming back. Like, because this is what I, I'm going to tell you what I don't want.

I'll tell you what I'll be mad about. If he goes away, we don't see him at the finale, and then he pops back up on paradise like the last four or five months didn't happen. you need to show me that there's been some change within you and disappearing from the public eye is not the change that I need to see and I don't know how you do that for me see that's the question

the question is what do you do? Right? Do you want Chris to do? Like, because like what does you have to do some outreach? Do we want to see Chris? You got to immerse yourself in the culture. Don't read a book.

Immerse yourself in the culture. Yeah. Like I don't want to see, because I don't want to see you reading a book like, oh, I read this, book in this book. I read white fragility. I read How to Be an Anti-Racist. I don't want to see that.

By Isabel Wilkerson or something like that. Great book, by the way. Which is a good book. I don't want to see that. I don't want to see that you watch certain documentaries. I want to know that you understood. Maybe that's you going to a place where you sitting in the barbershop, getting some real stories, understanding what it is, what racism looks like, explicit, implicit, what understanding these stories of what it is that people have been

through. I want to see you volunteering. I want to see you donating. I want to see you in it. You got to get in this thing because I want to feel like when I talk to you that you're not giving me a textbook's answer. I want you to be able to feel me and feel what it is that we're saying as much as you can. That's the only way you're going to get it. Because then when this happens, what, what? Because it's like, it's going to be, I see it now. I see a kid sitting on like a stool. He's reading a book. And he gets to it. the book and the pages are torn out of the book. And all of a sudden you hear a voice.

Somewhere right now, a little black kid doesn't have the resources they need to get the education that they deserve. Hi, I'm Chris Harrison. Formerly in a Bachelor franchise. I just want to let everybody, all the people of color out there know that while they don't have the right to complain,

they do have the right to an education. You know what I mean? Because really, because the point that I make is why this is going to be some weird. This is Chris Harrison for the United Nations Negro College Fund. This is Chris Harrison working on the NWACP. See, and that's the question.

The question is, at this point, if you really feel like anybody, not just Rachel, anyone, if that's really who he is, then what can he do? And this is the question for anyone, not just Chris Harrison. What can he do to show that he's not that guy anymore? You got to be proactive, right?

What does that mean, though? Okay, let's just say this is an issue that's happening, right? Let's just say, God forbid, another tragedy happens where, you know, you see some of the events that transpired in 2020 come to public lighting. Because we know it happens all the time, but it's not always

that the public knows about it. Is Chris Harrison out on the marching? Is he out on the front one? You can't use that standard, number one, because we don't want that to happen again. I'm giving you an example of being proactive. Like, I need to see you take charge

in it. Lead the conversation. How could he take charge tomorrow? You can. He ain't going to learn everything. Listen, what you saw in that interview is a, one, it was somebody who didn't want to understand the other side, somebody who didn't want to accept what I was trying to say, and somebody who, like, was, was comfortable in the space that they were in and actually wanted it to go back to the way that it was when people didn't call out and recognize these things. As you said, he preferred it that way. That is not going to change in one day. It's not going to change in an apology because first he has to understand. Somebody needs to sit down with him and have him watch that interview and press play and pause

and explain everything that he said and how it was there was implicit racism within those sentences. That's what he needs, somebody needs to explain that to him because otherwise he's just going to think, oh, people are upset. I'm responding to the backlash. You know, like I'll make sure not to say that again. No, you need to understand what you said and why it's wrong. Right. I couldn't agree with you more on that topic right there, on that point. Couldn't agree with you more, which is why I am formally inviting Chris Harrison on to the Higher Learning Podcasts. This is a real, actual, formal invitation for Chris Harrison to come on the higher learning podcast. Two reasons.

Two reasons. Number one. This is an instance where I can sit back and be a spectator. One reason is that I don't think that you and him had long enough to parse through everything that was going on, right? I don't think that you guys had long enough. Number two, I don't think it was, and we've spoken about this, a forum where,

there could be 360 degrees of Rachel showing off because it was an interview done on a celebrity show where, you know, whatever. And I think that conversation still has to happen out loud. And that conversation still has to happen in a way that everyone can kind of see it. Because, look, I'm not about to get in with the people that are like, oh, you know, cancel culture,

the very few people are canceled. And I sincerely doubt that Chris Harris and will be one of them. No, he's not. But what I will say is, and this goes for anyone, like you can't be right until you understand

why you were wrong. Mm-hmm. And I have my doubts that he's to that place. Because there hasn't been enough dialogue. I think that what he's had right now is he's had a thought.

He's heard that that thought was wrong. And now people have dictated sort of his future to him or dictated his mindset to him. And I would bet that if there was one emotion that was inside of him right now, I doubt that it was remorse. I think that there's probably another R word that is probably dominating Chris Harrison's mind right now. And that's probably resentment. He probably most likely resents all of this stuff and everything that's.

going on. And while we don't, it's not our job to talk about it, it certainly would be an interesting conversation to have and one that I think people, uh, would want to hear that are on both sides of this. And that need to hear. I really, I really, really love this because I would say that much like the country, Bachelor nation is 50-50. And you got half the people who are supportive and love what's happening and are happy we're talking about it and bringing things to light. You've got other half of it, people that blame me who are saying it's my fault, that Chris Harrison gave me everything and that I have taken him down and that's been my goal. And you're not going to reach everybody. You're not going to please everyone. But if we were

to continue this conversation with Chris Harrison, then I think it's important for people to see what it is that he did wrong and for him to hear it and to accept it, hopefully, and to acknowledge his part in it all. And maybe for him to say, wow, I never saw it that way. Wow, nobody's ever brought that to my attention. Oh, I thought of it is this way. Because maybe it'll reach somebody else and maybe they'll recognize their own unconscious bias because that is what implicit racism is. I think people get so caught up on the word racist and racism, not realizing their levels to it. You don't have to always be dressed up in your white sheets, you know, burning crosses or, you know, wearing racist symbols or saying, you know, certain derogatory

statements that are racist. It is sometimes the way you feel within, the certain stereotypes that you possess and the way that you act. That is what I felt was going on in that interview. That is what people need, we need to talk more about. Yeah, because that's the part that makes it rain, right? So the other part is, like, it can rain without there being a thunderstorm. My dad used to say that out of time.

You know, I don't know why you keep keeping your daddy from us. I really don't. We have taken so many of his stories, his life lessons, just these little nuggets. And I don't know why you keep keeping him from us. I wouldn't need him so bad. Yeah, he used to say, my dad used to say, you know, a thunderstorm is scary. A rain is just bad weather. He's like, you should plan for rain more than you should plan for a thunderstorm because

they don't happen very often. And I think people think of racism as this big, huge, ugly, all-consuming your hair and thunderclaps and there's lightning and blah blah blah blah blah. You know it when you see it. You got to wear your galoshes and you don't go to school. But no, it's also just a cloudy day or a rainy day.

It's just like things that make it just a little bit less bright. Situations that you have to navigate in your life where they're suboptimal, right? And no one in the world deserves optimal, but you deserve the chance at it. You deserve the, you don't deserve anything.

You deserve the opportunity for everything, like we've said before, right? So sometimes people don't even know, and this is across the board, how their microaggressions or even their mindset, it's just making things just a little cloudy for people. Yeah.

It's not making a thunderstorm, but you're giving me a light, drizzle, dog. You're giving me some medium-level rain where it's hard to drive and stuff like that. Just move some of your clouds around, my man. It's not that big of a deal. It's easier than you think, but you've got to know that you've got to do it. Right.

And so I think the first thing is making people understand that, like, there's nothing wrong with understanding that there is work to do. Mm-hmm. There's nothing. Look, and by the way that, some of that is on, some of that is on, I don't want to say it's on us, but some of that is on anybody that shows up to the conversation.

Right. When you show up to the conversation, bring everything with you, but when you're in the conversation, don't go ad hominem. Don't go, no attacks. Just bring your lunch bill and have the talk. Right.

Like, just have the talk. Talk about it. I know it's uncomfortable. Not for me. I like it. It's uncomfortable. It's scary. I love it.

But how do you ever give down to the nitty gritty if you're not just being honest. You've got to be afraid to just say whatever it is without worrying about what the person's going to think because we got to get it out. You got to get it out. Yeah. Yeah. Let me ask you a question.

How do you know what the nitty gritty? Everyone says get down to the nitty gritty. How do you know when you're at the nitty gritty? How do you know when you're at the nitty gritty? What is the nitty gritty? It's something that's like, you know, it's down in the, it's deep. It's the depth. It's like it kind of feels grimy.

Like that's how you, when you get that feeling, when you're in that moment, right? That's the nitty gritty. You feel it. But like, can you have, because can you have just the nitty? Because sometimes people not really. Without the gritty.

Without the gritty. Without the gritty. I don't think you can have the gritty without the nitty, but you can have the nitty without the gritty. Okay, because once you go to the, okay, interesting. Because the nitty is first. Right.

And the gritty is second. Right. Can't have one without the other. Can't have one without that. Well, no. You're saying you can have. You can have nitty. You have nitty.

You have nitty without gritty, but you can't have gritty without nitty. Right. Okay. Are there certain times that we can just settle for we just going to go, because maybe we don't know each other well enough, we're just going to go to the nitty today. Don't you think the nitty was the conversation I had with Chris? Nah.

The gritty would be on the podcast. Oh, that's probably a good point. Because y'all got to the nitty and he took it on the fucking chin. He was out there. He was out. He was out there. He was out there. So maybe, but here's the thing.

Maybe the gritty will benefit him. It will benefit more than him. It'll benefit anybody who's listening to the conversation. Because we all know, what we saw last week, everybody knows somebody like that. Right. And I think that's part of the reason Chris felt comfortable talking that way because he knew he wasn't alone. He knew he wasn't alone. Right.

50 million people. Do you feel bad at all about what's happened to Chris Harrison? No. I don't. Why would I? Because I, okay, let me be softer. I feel bad that when people get attacked, right? I think that's what we have to stop learning to do because then you give people a scapego to say, see, this is what he said in the interview. He said people were going to attack him. We got to stop attacking people and looking at it as like, okay, yeah, we're upset and we're disappointed and feel that and speak on that and stand in it and demand what you want to see happen. from this in a better way. I get that. But the name calling, the labeling, Chris is never going to, if your intention is for him to be better and to understand what was done that was wrong, you're never going to be better if all you do is label and attack and

try to cancel him. That's never going to get accomplished what you really are trying to are going for. So I don't feel bad for the lesson that's coming out of this. I don't feel bad that the way he's feeling was brought to light. I don't feel. bad that people are mad at him and upset and disappointed. I don't. But I feel bad that he's being attacked. One thing to hold somebody

accountable is totally different to attack them. Last question about this. It's something that I... Y'all heard him. It's the last one. Just about this. Just about this. Look, this conversation is going to keep going because we got more Matt James to talk about.

That's the crazy thing. Can I say something? Can I say something? This in a way was the best thing that could have ever happened to Matt James. Nobody else has that opinion. Please continue. The best thing that could have happened to Matt James. Because?

Because he looks like less of a weenie under the light. Okay? You guys, if you're just joining me, every Thursday, I do a Matt James weney roast and we talk about how much of a ween Matt James is. He does. There's no we. Rachel joins him.

Okay. And we talk about how much of a weenie Matt James is. I'm watching it and he's got weenie tendencies. All right? He's a very, I would say he's an unassuming weenie. He's like a, he's not like a evil weenie,

but it's kind of a weenie. He now, compared to Ween's Maximus Chris Harrison, and I'm still going to go with it. I still want him to come on the show, but dog, he's a weenie. He's still acting like one. He looks like less of a week.

this makes Matt James, now it depends on what happens tonight. So it depends on how certain things go. But it actually, it actually makes you want to, it makes you want to pile on Matt James less. Like you can have less fun with that James. Of course you do.

How, if you're Mad James, just for a second, if you're Matt James, I feel so bad for him, right? People are, he's under contract. He can't speak out the way that we're speaking out.

He's in an awkward, position, Rachel's clearly a frontrunner. We don't know how this all ends, but she's clearly somebody he was into. You know, so you got an answer to that. We don't even know what he thinks about all this. Now you've got Chris Harrison. He's the first black bachelor, and this shadow is over his entire season. Nobody's going to talk anymore about the fact that he's the first black bachelor.

This is all they're going to talk about, period. Y'all remember when they had that guy, Matt? I think he was the first, but remember what Chris Harrison said? Remember that Rachel girl? that's all people we're going to talk about. I feel so bad for him. Yeah. And this is kind of the thing.

It's like he's the first black bachelor. And, you know, there's a white girl that's like the front runner. And then you find she got some redneck legend. Old South parties and stuff like that. And I just want everybody to understand this. It really didn't have to be this big of a deal. I agree. So it's not, it's, it's, it's racism with the little R that got us to the point of the Old South Party, right?

It's racism with the big R that got us to where we are right now. Because the Old South Party is, in a, her going to the Old South Party is, hey, I didn't know how bad it was. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Chris Harrison says, this is something that we all can learn from. See, that's kind of the thing that it would have been actually pretty easy to get through that. But there's this other part of things to where I'm white. This is my country.

We invented the airplane. You can't talk to me at all. You know what I mean? How are you going to talk to? I'm white. This is us. Don't talk to me. I don't have to apply.

Who are you? Who are you? That's the other part of it. That's the why can I say the N-word people. And so like that part of it right there, that is what begat all of this. So let that be a lesson to you. I would also add that it's the ignoring of the little R's that have created or added to the big R. You know what I mean?

Ignoring the fact that these parties just exist and it's just a tradition of the South is a problem. You're allowing these these racist. actions, tendencies to continue to traditions to fester and just attributed to, oh, that's just what they did in the South. No, it's a problem. Because think of the mindset. Think of what you have to do to plan this party and how you have to buy your costume and what you have to put within the house party to make the old South come alive again.

It's a mindset that those little ours are a big problem. Oh, they are. And the lesson here is when you ignore the little R. it allows the big R to rear its head. That's what's happening here. If she had just come out, well, Chris Harrison would have never spoken. By the way, just want to let everybody know something real quick.

And we said this before, but we're going to say it again. Like, all of that Dixie shit is inherently racist. Look, I'm very proud to be from the South. I am from, me or not from the South. I am from from Dallas, Texas. What is Texas considered? It's basically like another country. Okay, it's its own place.

You sound like you're from Texas. It's its own place. Texas ain't the South. Texas ain't Texas is Texas. We lived in Texas Dallas for a little while. And they, you don't know Dallas. We lived in Dallas for a little while. And it seemed like they do,

they throw on the Texas propaganda so much while you're living in Texas. It's like you wake up. up, you get to school and they go, hi, sing, sing deep in the heart of Texas now, or you can't come in school. You're in Texas now. Pledge to the Texas flag. Do it now, okay?

Or you're not allowed here. This is Texas, zombie town, USA. Texans are different. The South is, okay, I'm from the deep south, okay? I'm from the deep south. And being from the deep south, I'm very proud to be from the deep south. I'm very proud of the culture. I'm very proud of the people.

I'm even proud of some of the struggles because they make for such an interesting, sometimes maddening, but enriching fabric that you can only get there. Having said that, the era of degradation and the era of bondage for black Americans in the South,

it's nothing to celebrate. It's just nothing to celebrate. Guys. Nope. like we talk about whether or not Juneteenth should be a holiday, right? I was on the fifth column with Camel Foster. What does Camel think? Absolutely not.

Well, Camel is a brilliant conservative mind, right? But I was on the fifth column with Camel Foster, and he said that he envisioned the world where he would celebrate Juneteenth, not just with black people, but with anyone. When he would walk down the street and somebody would grab him and hug him to celebrate Juneteen. And he'd say, hey, whatever, that it wasn't a black thing. that everyone can celebrate. He doesn't believe in racial sort of ideology. He doesn't believe that race is a good indicator of anything in America.

So he's not celebrating Black History Month. He doesn't identify as Black. He said on the podcast. What does he identify as? Camel. He says he doesn't identify as black. So there's no race. So he doesn't believe in race.

He said race is a social construct. And to him right now, race doesn't, it doesn't sort of, and I won't speak for him, he does it a lot more. he can speak to his worldview a lot more eloquently than I can. He says that race doesn't really matter and he says that nothing should be really he shouldn't be judged or he shouldn't be

putting to any sort of group based upon his phenotypic traits. And that's the way that he feels. Okay. I disagree with Camel on that, but I'm willing to have the argument, right? Sure. I'm willing to have the argument. I disagree with him and I will have the argument. It's interesting something about the Junete thing that he said during this conversation. What he said was that he envisions Juneteenth as this.

Now, this is what my response to him was, if things are in America as he wants them to be, or as he says they are, or as we all, as Chris Harrison even would think that they are, right? As anyone would think that they are, as anyone would hope and wish that they are, why isn't Juneteenth already like that?

So think about that. If race doesn't matter, and we've moved past all of them, of these things. And all of these things are concoctions and figments of our imaginations as black people. None of these things really exist. But we can all agree that slavery was the darkest, most brutal, most inhumane time in the history of our country. Then why wouldn't the end of slavery, which is what Juneteen celebrates? Why would that be a day of not? Why would that be a day of national celebration in America.

Why wouldn't that be a day on par with even the 4th of July, which is a day where we really celebrate the end of us being dominated by a foreign power? So if things were, as you say they are, as all you guys say they are, we're making this up in our heads, we're making too big a deal of it, then the holiday that celebrates the end of the bondage of black people is only celebrated by black people. It's not a national holiday. And then it's only celebrated by some of the black people

because a lot of them don't even have the knowledge that it's a thing. Okay? Even making Juneteen a federal holiday in it of itself is a divisive issue. Well, how could that be? What's wrong with celebrating the end of slavery? The end of slavery is also the end of a particular way of life.

Correct. And that life is the antebellum home life. It's the scarlet O'Hare that clearly, frankly my dear, I don't give a damn type of shit. It's all of that. And people don't, they're not happy that they ended it. They lamented. They mourn that. Which is why we have these reenactments.

you know, where people dress up and celebrate the Confederacy, or we have these old South parties. Right. To commemorate it. A time when a woman was a woman, a man was a man, and a nigger knew his place. And if you think you can have the first two without the last,

you are absolutely kidding yourself. And I'm sorry. So that's the thing, you know. So we'll see. We'll see if Chris Harrison takes us up on our invitation. You think he will? No, but we'd love to have you. And it would be a conversation, right?

This is the nitty gritty. Okay? The nitty gritty. The nitty gritty. The nitty gritty. You don't think he'll do it? I don't think, I think he would want to, personally. I do.

I really think he would want to come on and have the conversation. I don't know if he'll be allowed to. I bet you 100 bucks. I don't think we'll see Chris for a while. I bet you 100 bucks. Chris comes on this podcast. I'll take it. Yeah, let's do it.

I bet you 100 bucks. Chris comes on this podcast. Great. Yeah. Don't duck the smoke, Chris. All right. Let's take a break with quick. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business.

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Justin Timberlake. Whose apology came first? I think Chris Harrison's apology came first. Justin Timberlake, boy, white man on the run. I'm telling you, bro, think about it. White men, like Trump really sort of emboldened this. Trump been gone like a month and he already got the white men on the run.

Well, not the ones in Congress, but yes. Not the ones in Congress. We'll talk about that. But yeah, Justin Timberlake apologized. Now, I haven't seen this Britney Spears documentary. Have you seen it? Oh, it's so good. But here's the thing.

I saw it, okay? Even talk to one of the directors of it. Not, I was shot. I was more so shocked by Britney was someone who I loved, She's a few years older than me. And I didn't realize what was happening to Brittany because I just liked Britney and enjoyed her music and appreciated her in that regard. I didn't realize what was happening to her was paparazzi to the level that it was.

I didn't realize the things that Justin had said that made people turn on her. I didn't realize that moms were against her, calling her, making her seem like she was a whore. I didn't know all of that. So to watch this documentary and see these things, you understand. what Brittany's going through. You understand why people are saying hashtag free Brittany. You're understanding the conservatanship a lot bit more. I'll tell you one thing.

When I walked away, I never thought, you know what I really wish out of this documentary is that Justin Timberlake would just apologize to Brittany. So what was in the documentary, but it was mad people, though, all the reaction that I saw, it was mad people who felt that way. I saw mad people on Twitter

that were like Justin Timberlake, is so trash. He's this. He's that. And I saw that what happened. What did he say? To be honest with you, I miss this. I remember to cry me a river video. Yeah. And it seemed like they were going back, but they were going back and forth. And that was kind of par for the relationship in and the Hollywood course that they would kind of shit on each other like that. I don't remember anything else that kind of was going down. What did he do? Like what was it? The problem is that she never was speaking out. It was him. So he

continued to shit on her. He had the video where he totally played into it. He had, meanwhile, Britney silent, then there was this interview that she had with Diane Sawyer that people were very upset about. And I guess the way, and I'm paraphrasing her, the way she phrased the question was kind of making Britney seem like she had some fault in it. What did you do wrong? Then there was a video of Justin Timberlake on a radio show where they asked him if he took her virginity. And at first he says he's not going to talk about it. And then he's like, yeah. Yeah, you know, I hit that. And it's like, well, dang, does Britney have a voice and all this?

You're just going to totally disregard her privacy and speak out about her what she's done sexually when she's been, you know, telling everyone she's a virgin and she wants to keep that a secret. He just outed her. So it was little things like that that you saw that you were like, okay, Justin, like, you're kind of whack. And Justin went on to have, you know, the career that he has. He seems to be doing okay where Britney seemed to go down. down after that, downhill. So it's almost like he springboarded his solo career off of that. And she took a downfall after.

I'm a great big fan of Justin Timberlake's music. Always happen. I think he makes great music. There's a song that's on the 2020 experience that is just a song called Strawberry Bubblegum. It's just an amazing. Justin Timberlake is really fantastic. But the one fatal flaw, about Justin Timberlake

is sometimes it seems like he can't fall into who he is, right? Like when, I don't know what it is that Justin Timberlake wants to be, but it seems like sometimes he's got his own identity crisis type of deal. Why do you say that? Because for him, he seems like, to be honest with you, the type of guy that at first want to give the right answer when pressed by those radio guys, right? And then at the end of the day,

he just wants to be so cool. Yeah, I hit that. There's no reason for Justin Timberlake to answer that question. There's no reason for Justin Timberlake. After the, and like even the way he cuts and runs, you know what? You remember punked?

Yes. Yes. Do you remember on Punkd when they had his car or whatever they did? like they were going to steal his car. Yes. And just in Timberlake, when they acted like they were going to steal the car, right?

He was literally almost crying. They were taking all of his stuff. He was so upset, right? And then after he, they took all of it, he immediately got his cool back. He immediately put back on whatever cloak it is that he wears when he's out there. Yeah.

And it was like, oh, my God. Oh, I got cool, bro. Yeah, yeah, man. Give me my truck back. and all of that stuff like that. And so I always feel like he's kind of fighting between those two guys. And to me, that explains the Jan Jackson thing.

Because Janet Jackson, for you guys don't know, Jan Jackson Justin Timberlake did something in the Super Bowl together in 2003. He ripped off something on her clothes. Her breast was revealed under it. I'd never forget it. My homie Tommy goes, yo, dude, was that Janet's tit? You know what I mean?

And then after that, she apologizes. And she just gets destroyed by Les Movedest for years and years and years over at CBS after that. But Justin kind of distanced himself from her and never really didn't hold her down at all. Yeah. And like all of this is a part of that. All of this is a part of, okay, the reality is the human thing to do if you are just like a person and you're not caring about everything that everyone thinks of you is to go, hey, we both did this together.

I support, love, and believe in Janet Jackson, and whatever happens, happens. And he just seems like he's, there's something, I don't want to, I don't know the man, but it seems like that's something kind of weak about him in that way. Well, absolutely. And it seems like this is his MO, right? If this, that's what you did to Brittany and you kept it moving.

And then something happens with Janet, and you kept it moving as well. So this is who, just since Timberlake is at the end of the day. But did he apologize ever to Janet? Not that I remember, but he did apologize. So he never said anything. Not that I remember. I remember him.

It had been rumored because there's a great, you can go back and look all this up. Let's move as a guy who was over CBS. He was, at that point, he was just completely, he was livid reportedly about this entire thing. And some people say that he made it his job to kill Janet Jackson's career after that. And he was going to do the same thing for Justin Timberlake, because the Grammys was the very next week.

Mm-hmm. But Justin Timberlake apparently called Les Movese and gave a tearful apology to Les Movese not to do it. And so he spared him. Justin Timberlake has... Spared him. He has just apologized. And the apology is, I've seen the messages, tags, comments, and concerns. I want to respond.

I'm deeply sorry for the times of my life where my actions contributed to the problem where I spoke out of turn or did not speak up for what was right. I specifically want to apologize to Britney Spears and Janet Jackson, both individually, because I care for and respect these women and know I failed. And then it goes on and says he's compelled to response by the reaction that he's seen. You're shaking your hand. Well, I'm just like, okay, Super Bowl happened in 2004, this Super Bowl that is at issue. So we're 17 years later. Brittany was even longer than that.

I thought, you know who doesn't care about these apologies? Brittany and Janet. They don't care. They don't care. It's too late. It's at, like, you want to come back 17 plus years later and apologize for something? Where were you then? Janet has moved on. She's dealt with the issue. Justin coming back now, I don't want to hear it. It doesn't mean. Think about that. What could that apology possibly mean to the people who were actually impacted by what happened? What could that mean this many years later? I realize I'm speaking for Janet and Brittany right now but I just have a hard time I personally wouldn't care

would you care if they came this many would it mean something to you? It's hard to say to have to I'll speak more to the Janet part of it Janet Jackson is there's a video on the internet of Jimmy Fallon running down

Jan Jackson's career achievements to her. And, like, of her getting embarrassed about it and stuff like that. You guys, you guys don't have any idea what a big deal Jan Jackson is. And a lot of that has to do with what's happened these last 20-some-odd years or almost 20 years since that happened, right?

Because artists go through this whole thing, they go through a thing where they build these careers, right? They get to an apex in these careers and there's a climb, but there's always a point to where we start remembering to celebrate them and remembering because either they do something else, they translate to movies, they play Vegas.

Even like for Celine Dion or Mariah Carey or any of those people who have gone, you start to realize how many hits they have and all of the stuff. Really, that part of Jan Jackson's career was taken from us. Because they really, because of how she was getting blackballed. And we don't remember to. to celebrate people as well as we should as a culture. So really that was kind of taken. And to a large degree, it's because of this.

So we can get busy, loving on Janet right now. We definitely can and we always should. We can get busy loving on her right now. We should, regardless of anything with Justin Timberlake. But, yo, man, that's a big debt for him to have to pay. Like, that, that's a big moment to fail in. And it doesn't, look. by all accounts a good dude.

You know what I mean? Like by all accounts a good dude in terms of, I guess, his day to day, you know, you don't hear. I mean, I can't even say that. I don't know. Like, he seems like a nice guy. I don't know. But I don't know.

That's a lot. That's a lot to fail in that way. It is a lot. And you have to also look at what it took him to apologize. You know what I'm saying? I know it's not my apology to accept. but you start, you basically say why you decided to finally apologize over these years because of the comments and the messages that you were getting. It's almost as if he was apologizing to those people rather than the two people who really needed to hear it.

It's what, do you really understand the gravity of what you did or are you just responding to some social media backlash right now? Like the fact that what you did specifically to Janet, Janet and Aunt Brittany was so detrimental to their career. I mean, it wrecked Brittany. And he continued to perpetuate this thinking about Brittany when he knew the real story. Janet, he didn't have her back. To me, this is a character flaw. It's happened more than once at this point.

Like I said, it's your M.O. I mean, I... What more could Justin do right now? Not a social... More than a social media apology. That's a message. You got to empower somebody. There has to be...

You know, because your actions take power. You got to find someone how they empower someone. Look, I'm not, look, I fuck with Justin Timberlake. I've never not fucked with them. But like, the reality is that like there's a corny part

of this. It's like, you're corny. It's corny shit. It's corny shit. Being a coward is corny. And there's some cowardice here. I'm not, I don't want to pile on, but I'm like, yo,

my man, nobody wants to have their career tarnished, right? But you were right there. You were right there. You were titty adjacent. It wasn't just Janet up there with the titty. It was two people up there. It was two tities and it was two people.

Only one titty got shown. But it was two titties right there. You were right there, Justin. So stop. It's almost like a form of snitching. It's kind of like you did dirt together. You did. I don't think there was anything wrong with that performance, by the way.

No. But to try to weasel your way out of it, And it almost seems like he threw her under the bus to do it. Kind disorder. And then the same thing with Britney Spears, bro. Like, all that browing down type of, yeah, dude, Britney Spears, like, it's like, it's whack as hell. And if, I'll tell you something,

he should be thankful that he can understand his whackness at age 40. It takes people sometimes to their 70 years to understand how whack they are. He's still got time to change. So you think he's changed? You think he's changed? Because of the statement? No, I said I think he's got time to change. You know, help.

We'll see. We'll see. But it's just, I got to watch the Britney doc, I guess. I got to watch. It's good. It's only an hour. A little over an hour. Is it going to make me like super sad, though?

For me, it was eye-opening because I feel like I've been dismissive to some of the things that Britney's gone through. And it checked me. That's how I felt. So I think people should watch it. You know what? I'm going to watch instead. I'm not going to watch that. I'm not going to watch that.

All that explanation. You're not even going to watch it. I'm not going to watch. Janet Jackson videos. I want everybody who can hear the sound of my voice. I will retweet you if you, both Janet and Briggins, I will retweet you if you go on your social media, man, fuck talking about the people who offended us.

Let's talk about the people who inspired us. So let's move it off. I like it. Let's try to give Janet and Brittany back what got taken from them. You know, what's your favorite Britney Spears song? Oh my gosh. Talk about it.

No, I have to think about it. I think about being a young girl and singing Britney in my room, it would be the, sometimes I run. Remember that? It's like a slow song. What the fuck?

I don't know if that's the name of it. Sometimes I run. Sometimes I'm scared of you. All I really want to tell you, I treat you right through you day. I can't remember. What are you talking about? What you're going to?

It's like sometimes I run. Sometimes I hide. Sometimes I'm scared of you. This is like, but all I really want is to hold you. Oh my gosh. Treat you right. Be with you day and night. That's your favorite Britney's fair song?

It just reminds me. It's a bring. I tie it to a memory. Like crushing on a young boy, singing in my room. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

I don't know. I think that's kind of whack as far. Real Brittany fans will understand me on that. There's only one answer to this question. Baby, can't you see? I'm calling a guy like you to have a warning. It's dangerous. Open your eyes, man.

Open your eyes. And a taste of it's out. That is the jam. That's the first. It's a great video. Jam. It is the jam. I'd be honest with you.

It's not my favorite. I'd be honest with you. I've had some moments. Like I was in the car one time and I was in the car one time, Baton Rouge. I'm driving. You know, I'm in my car and I had some system in my shit. I had like some speakers or whatnot.

And there was some homies next to me that rolled up on me when Toxic came on the radio and I was going a little too hard. And I never forget the look on these guys's face when I loved. looked over, they was like, like they almost wanted to kick me out the culture. Like, fam, really? Really? And I was like, no, man, then they took off. They probably see me and still go,

nah, that's that guy we saw going crazy to toxic. I love that song. What's your favorite Janet song? Oh, my favorite Janet song. I'm going to say if, because I love the video so much. Dun-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-d-d-d-----------------------------------------------------------------ppppppppppster. It was almost in this video that Janet-p put on the Infinity Gondly. As a child, I used to watch.

run in the room when it would play. My mother would laugh. And as a man, I still don't, you never see a creature this person, this perfect. The pleasure principle. Oh.

Just, oh my God. Jesus Christ. First of all, the song itself is amazing. But Janet, in the pleasure principle video, if God made something more

It's the videos. Kept it for himself. A fucking amazing in that video. Just crazy. I love that. Dun, dun dun dun dun da. Wait,

have you seen Janet in concert? Never. I have. I was at the All for You tour. Oh, and when she plays, would you mind? And picks a guy out of the audience.

Yeah. Janet. Janet, man. Go, yeah, do yourself a favor. If you don't know Janet and her greatness, go back and watch her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, go, go give these women some love.

They still out here, they still need this. It's not like they need it. They still need to support their fans and the upliftment. So do that for them. Are we going to take a break? This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer

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The day doesn't ask for permission. Lunch window? Gone before you saw it coming. You deserve a break that actually. satisfies sweet greens new wraps have got you real ingredients zero shortcuts everything you love in one hand think green goddess chicken garlic aoli crumbled bacon corn salsa 40 grams of protein made to keep up with whatever comes next new sweet green wraps hit different order now at order dot sweetgreen.com yes so uh uh Trump was acquitted it was a thing uh that happened. Fifty-seven senators voted to convict Trump. Forty-three voted to acquit. There were seven GOP members that voted with the Democrats to impeach President Trump, excuse me, to convict President Trump. That is Mitt Romney, Susan Collins, Lisa Mikovsky, Ben Sass, Bill Cassidy,

Richard Burr, and Pat Toome. There are a couple of surprises in there. But, yeah, for the most part, it seems as if the politicians up there on the hill fell short of what they needed to do in order to lay some accountability at the feed of former President Trump. Lindsay Graham says that he spoke to Trump after his acquittal. And the president is excited about the midterm of lessons in 2022. And the opportunity that GOP has to take the house back. Yes, to take the house back. and also to make gains in the Senate.

The Senate, of course, is deadlocked at 50-50. Your thoughts on the fact that Trump was acquitted in this manner. I mean, I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but I wasn't expecting to see the Republicans rise up and actually do what was right. Because for such a long time, in the GOP, I've been watching them do what is wrong and not do things that are for,

the people, not do things to make a change, not do things to unify, but do things that align themselves with their party and the seat that they hold. I even read that the Republican senators that did vote, majority of them were either, are either retiring or their seat is safe. Yeah, exactly. So it was almost safe for them to be able to do that at the same time. So yes, I'm happy to see that more than ever across the line, but what does it really mean when that was their motivation for their vote? It's disappointing, but to be expected, somebody said something. One, I don't know if it was a, I'm not sure who said it. Somebody in Congress said, the scary thing about all of this is not necessarily for Donald Trump that's that he may run again. It's that he may run again and may

lose. And then what does that do for our country? And I think that the fact that that, that these senators were in the Capitol, not all of them, but were in the Capitol when the Capitol was being attacked. They were there. They lived it. They were after these people. They know it was wrong. Some of these senators who decided to vote not to charge Trump were standing on, standing on the floor saying how vile what happened was, how it was wrong. yet they couldn't vote in that same manner. So although I may have so much hope for the current administration and want things to change in that sense, yes, I'm excited that the Democrats control the Senate.

How can I be hopeful that things are going to change and be better when we see what happened with this impeachment trial? I mean, if you can't convict Trump off of this, if you can't do what's right off of this, how can I ever expect you to do what is right? And that's how I feel coming off. Even though I knew this is how it was going to go down, the fact that it actually did go down this way, I have nothing for them. I expect nothing because everything you do is selfish.

Everything you do is for your party. And we're never going to be better and come together as a society. What's the coziest place in the world to you? The coziest place. The coziest place. My parents' house. Your parents' house. Is there a special nook in there?

Do you have nooks? My parents' house, no. My old bedroom. But I feel at home and safe and comfortable. Do your parents keep your bedroom the same way you kept it? Is it like still there?

They've changed it. It's there, but they've changed it. New furniture. You feel like that means that they don't love you? Okay. Wow, that was a big leap. No I'm saying.

Why would they change your room? Because it's the guest room. now. That's bad. Yeah. So like some of the stuff that was hanging up that's more childlike

they took down, they gave it to me. Stop, that's why made me feel a certain way. That's horrible. But my spirit is in that room. My spirit is there. Now, did they change your sister's room?

Yes, my little sister's room has changed because it's now for the grandkids. It's completely changed. They even repaint it. So this was a, this was an aside, but I'm going to stay here one second.

Just know that as soon as you left, your parents went in and they changed your room. It wasn't that quick. It's just as soon as you left, your parents went in and they went, hey, she's gone. Let's put a hot tub in here. As soon as you left, it's interesting. It's just an interesting thing. But the reason why I asked you what the most cozy place in the world is, the most cozy place to me is my mother's bedroom in my grandmother's house.

My mother has African art everywhere. She's always got the temperature in the right place. The bed, some kind of way. My mother's just a cozy lady. That's the coziest place in the world. But I tell you a cozier place. A cozier place must be on Donald Trump's nuts. Because the GOP right now, forget about anything that has to do with morals

or anything that has to do with morals or anything that has to do with, with constitutional duty or anything like that. They just some nut huggers. And it's hard to watch. You just on this man's nuts. Get off his nuts. You just like, this guy is gone. Like, it's just so hard to watch somebody.

Yes. On somebody's nuts. Have some respect for yourself, dog. Like, the reality is you sell this bill of goods to everyone about how much you care about America, how much you care about the police, how much you care about law and order, but you don't care about anything more

than you care about Donald Trump's nuts. It just honest nuts. We all know people like this, you know? But there's people like this in your life that, like, you can't say, I had a homie that loved DMX so much and we all love DMX, but this guy really was the biggest DMX fan

in the world. It didn't matter what happened. Then X put out a song. The song wasn't rocking. It didn't happen very much, but it happened a couple of times. And my boy B is just going, bro, I knew X's crazy and crazy. Now I'm like, yo, bro, should get off this nigga nuts. It's not hot. Like, you got to be able to say when something's not hot. That's how you maintain your objectivity and the insurrection. That's not hot. Not hot. You go out and you tell Americans that there has to be this, that we have to have respect for police. We have to do all it is. But when someone steps over that line

in the most egregious and gross way threatens not only your life, you don't have enough backbone to punish the man who tried to kill you. That's next level nut hugging. And they admit it. They admit that what he did was wrong. They admit

that he was inciting the violence. They just say it's unconstitutional to be trying the president when he is no longer the president, when he's no longer in office. That's a crazy thing. They know it's wrong. I mean, I... Oh, go ahead. They on his nuts.

And it's weird. And by the way, there's nothing there's nothing you can do. Like, once you've done this, you can't go back, right? It's like... So maybe that's what it is, though, Van. What is? What you mean? They've committed. They're in too deep. They've gone too far. So it's like, we're just going to stay with it.

Think about it. They're surrounding themselves. with fellow congressmen and congresswomen who support and uplift these ideals, they go back to their constituents who believe these same things. That's what they're doing. There's nobody checking them and they don't want to be checked. There's nobody holding them. They won't let people hold them accountable. There's a cost.

A man died. There's a cost. Absolutely. There's real American blood at the hands of the right. here at the hands of President Trump. You know what? I'm not going to blame the entire right. I'm going to blame the guy who's to blame for it.

There's real American blood on the hands of the president. A man died. Died doing his duty. You know, and now I hear that Eugene Goodman is going to get the Congressional Medal of Honor. Is that a thing? I think I heard that. That it's super American that he gets the Congressional Medal of Honor putting his life on the line. But the other side,

on the other side of it, the president gets acquitted. Right. Like, how do you reconcile those two things? Right. It doesn't make any sense. I'm telling you, man. The toothpaste is out of the tube now. You guys, just, it is.

The mustard's off the hot dog. The toothpaste is out of the two. We're in full old wacky bizarro land. You know, full on wacky bizarland. That's as much time as we're going to spend on that. Hopefully, the GOP understands that there's no future with President Trump. But maybe they did Their end. Get off as nuts. Have some respect

for yourself. Oh, yo, I got reacquainted with a friend this past week. Oh, we should say this. We finally hung out in L.A. We did. Safely, you guys. Safely, we're outside. Outside. On the terrace at the hotel. Rachel came by and we hung out.

It was very, very fun. Shout out to Brian. Shout out to Dan. My baby was there. Kalika. Tommy. Tommy came for a Tommy Alter came for a second shout out to everyone

but we all hung out It was very fun But I It's weird that I was saying I got reacquainted with someone that I had like missed for a long time And I hadn't seen

That's Beyonce's ass Okay Beyonce's ass is back You guys don't remember What a deal Because other people Have since came in That's something we don't talk enough about

People forget about that the body that Beyonce has. I'm not talking about the body. I'm talking about specifically her ass. And this is, I'm sorry, but like it was the, all the rage back in the day. I remember,

I remember when people realized like, hey, bro, did you see Beyonce got that thing on her? And when do we stop talking about it? We've, these last couple years, we've definitely stopped talking about it. Definitely.

We've definitely stopped talking about it, for sure. Hmm. Okay. Do you think we talk about Beyonce's ass as much as we used to? No, we talk about the kids. We talk about Right. And we talk about other

asses. Black is king. Like we talk, yeah, we talk about other things. Beyonce's given us so much. She's given us a lot to talk about other than her ass, which is the way that you want things to be, I guess, if you're Beyonce. She's a multi-talented lady.

But these new Ivy Park photos, have you seen them? I have. Oh, my God. She looks amazing. She looks amazing. Oh, it's time for, she apparently, now, let me ask you a question, do you think that Beyonce saying, hey, I want you guys to talk about my cakes again? Is this her saying, hey? I think the Beyonce is saying I still got it.

That's what she's saying? Yeah, of course she's saying that. I still got it. No matter what I have going on here, maybe you haven't seen it in a while, but just in case y'all forgot, I still got it. So, that's interesting. Why? Is it, is it, because it almost feels

blasphemous in a way to talk about Beyonce as, uh, why? Like as a sex symbol? Why? Because she's so elegant and graceful and like, regal and she has such a place of the culture. It almost seems like we shouldn't be talking about that. I don't think that's fair.

I think that she can be all those things and be sexy. And maybe that is what she's reminding us of in these pictures. Like, still do all of that and be sexy with it at the same time. Right. Sexy is one thing. And I'm not saying that she's doing anything untoward. But sexy is one thing.

But the pictures that came out, they specifically got some booty meat. And I guess what I'm asking is it okay to discuss Beyonce's booty meat? Is it okay to talk about Beyonce's ass like this? You say so. Well, I mean, I just think it's, I talk about Beyonce as a whole. You keep focusing on the ass. I'm just going to put that out there. But the ass is the star in the show

in some of these pictures. No, Beyonce is the star. I'm looking at them. I'm looking at them. I'm scrolling through. I'm taking a look. Beyonce, and you know what I love? Is Beyonce is a beautiful woman

and she's a voluptuous woman. And I love that she is. So when I see her showing off her body like this, it's like it's okay to embrace your curves and, you know, the hips and the butt. And it's beautiful. That's not a thing anymore. What's not a thing anymore?

A natural one? No, I'm saying, I'm saying like it's not a thing anymore that it's not okay to embrace your curves. I would argue in some circles. It's not that it's not okay. Yes, people embrace it more than ever, but I would still say that there are circles that don't embrace this. Seriously, that don't embrace. I feel like that's the beauty. Am I wrong?

I feel like that's the beauty standard now. Trudy. Trudy. How many, how many women on The Bachelor are curvy? Yeah, but that's not the same. same thing, though. Why not? I said some circles. But what I'm saying is that... You don't see full-figured women like that on the show.

But we're talking about Beyonce here. So that's like, that's in the culture. You know what I'm saying? It's like, it's kind of, I mean, they got the iron and more backs. I'm sure that's a big thing on the Bachelors. But Beyonce isn't just about the culture. Beyonce, Beyonce transcends that. So she's showing this to multiple audiences is what I'm trying to say. She's not, it's not just about, just listen to you. Let me ask let's let's ask Trudy because I don't know. I'm wrong. I'm a man.

Am I mansplaining? Maybe I am. Trudy Joseph. Is it a thing now, is it still taboo for a woman to have curves? Is that like a taboo? I didn't say it was taboo. I don't think that it's taboo now for a woman to have curves. I think a lot of our society is body positive, but

I do think that having natural bodies isn't, you know, it's not talked about enough. I think that we see women with enhanced bodies and that becomes the standard. And what's so great about Beyonce in those photos is that's really her. And I think that's what Rachel's saying. We don't know that. Thank you, Trudy. We don't know that.

You don't know what you're not going to do. We don't know that. And by the way, I think, look, we don't, we don't know. Beyonce, we don't know if that's really her. And by the way, it would make no difference if it was or. it wasn't. But her body looks different here than it has in other pictures. And I think that's what's great is she is embracing that after having children. She looks amazing. But she may not look. She always looks amazing. Right. But in these pictures, she's even more like voluptuous with it.

And I think that that's, that is her. This is Beyonce. That, well, no, I'm not even talking about that. That's not even, you go looking at the wrong pictures, first of all. I'm looking at all. I'm looking at all the pictures. Pull up the picture with her. That's what I'm talking about right there. My God. I didn't show you the. picture just so you could have a moment again. I'm telling you. Shout out to you, Hove. Shout out to all. By the way, that's not, that's not what you see right there.

That's not uncommon for Houston women. Houston women. See, people think that they like a certain size of, people think that they like a certain size woman. You go down there in Houston, you might slide your girl an extra plate. You know what I mean? Because you go down there in Houston, you see how them you might slide like, hey, baby, eat up. Get some dessert, baby.

You know, women are beautiful at all sizes, but boy, the South makes you love a woman. So, Texas, so Houston is the South. So Texas is the South. Because you just said it. Well, I'll tell you like this. Houston, we can kind of claim. Oh, stop. That's true. Houston

got Bayews and stuff. Houston, we can kind of claim. Oh, you got to have a bayou to be a part of the South? I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is Houston, we can kind of claim. Dallas is definitely not. But if there was If there was one place in Texas that was the south, it would be Houston. Shout out to Beaumont as well. Houston, you might be able to claim.

I feel like you're saying that because there's like a direct way to get there from where you're from, Baden Rouge to Houston, and you're connecting it. And you're naming cities along the way. By the way, it was mad people. It was mad people on the internet that was asking whether or not Beyonce had a BBL. It was mad people that were asking. Mad people. It was a whole thing on Twitter about people asking whether or not Beyonce had had a BBL.

And I guess my question is, if she had had a BBL, if she had done that, was wrong with that. A what? A BBL, a Brazilian buttlift. You know what that is, right? A BBL. I didn't know that it had an acronym. I'm not well versed in it. Sorry.

You've never heard the term BBL before? Man, you don't know enough Instagram models, man. And I think I'm kind of proud to say that. Oh, I'm proud judgment rage. I'm just saying, sorry, I don't know the term. I don't know that acronym for Brazilian buttlift.

You've never heard BBL before? No. So if Beyonce had had a BBL, is that wrong? They take fat from someone on your body, inject it to the butt. I don't think it's wrong if people want to enhance themselves, but I think Beyonce presents that she's all natural. And I think that that's, and she looks fantastic doing it.

The natural way. All right. Let me say something. One more thing about this before we go. What? Jay-Z's got to watch out because I'm looking at this picture of Beyonce. Watch out for who, Van. This Ivy Park drop that she had on January 18th.

And first of all, this picture was liked by 2.6 million people. Okay. And one of the people that liked this, it says, liked by Jake Gyllenhaal. I'm looking at it right now. Liked by Jake Gillenhall and then 200, like 2.6 million people. All right now. What does that even mean?

Why is he a threat to Jay Z? Jay J-Gillen-Holl. Sexy man. All right now. I actually don't think so, but okay. You don't, you know, you're not down with a little, wait, well, of course you are. You don't think, Jay, you don't have it.

Yeah, you like white guys. You know, you like, you like. I am married. I am married. Yes. Stop that. Stop. Stop.

A lot of people was coming at your neck for that. A lot of people who was like, I saw one woman that tweeted. For what? They were like, Rachel's married to a white dude, yet she's coming down on Chris Harrison, pick a side. That was one of the best tweets I ever saw. That's the best tweet. Why, Van?

Why? Because it's funny as hell. How's that funny? I'm not laughing. Pick a side. People are ignorant. Choose aside, Rachel. Rachel, choose a side.

Jake Jenner Hall. Jake Gillahall is a sexy man. Women out there. All right, cool. And it's all we got today. Look, you guys. the reality of the situation is that it's kind of just starting here, you know, with this whole Bachelor thing. It's become something bigger now.

It's become a cultural moment, a flashpoint cultural moment. Isn't that interesting for you? I love it. I love that I'm a part of it. I'm part of the conversation. Again, never did I think that it would amount to this. But when I decided to be first black bachelorette, it was to make noise. to create some change.

And I'm happy to see other people are wanting the same thing. It's great. What crazy thing is, we still got four more weeks of Matt James. Four more weeks of Madge. And we got to watch Chris Harrison on our screen. Like, none of this happened because it was recorded so many months ago. They should edit. They should edit, like, you know how girls do that when they don't want you to know who their boyfriend is?

They put an emoji over his face. Can you imagine? They should put an emoji over Chris Harris's. What's the emoji? What's the emoji? I don't know which emoji it would be. Maybe it could be like a picture of Frederick Douglass or something like that. They put over his face every time he speaks.

It sounds like it's coming from Frederick Douglass or Fred Hampton or somebody like that. Not Chairman Fred. Not Fred. But, but yeah, I don't know. It's so itchy because I'm going to watch tonight. Tonight's going to be a big show, right? Tonight's going to be a big show. Tonight's going to be a big show.

Kind of plays right along into some of the things. things we're talking about. Can not wait. Dude, you guys got to come back. We got a Wednesday show dropping. And then we have, we're coming back on Friday. So we got an interview dropping Wednesday with Dr. Kendi?

Dr. Kendi. We got an interview with Dr. Kendi. He wrote how to be an anti-racist. That's fantastic. Can I just say we recorded the interview before all of this happened, but ain't God good? Right. He said, you know what?

This is timely. Abram Kendi on Wednesday. And then on Friday, We're coming back. Matt James Winnie Rose, highlighting is back on your airwaves, earwaves or whatever. We offer right now.

Take your thin caps off and not stop learning. I am Van Lathen. I'm Rachel Lindsay.