Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Coachella, Afrika Bambaataa, and Their Lord and Savior Donald Trump

Episode Date: April 14, 2026

Van and Rachel recap the first weekend of Coachella, before discussing Afrika Bambaataa’s legacy and reported history of abuse. Then, Trump shares an image of himself as Dr. Christ, Gucci Mane releases a diss track, and the church gets lit. (0:00) Intro (2:54) Coachella recap: Justin Bieber (11:47) Coachella recap: Sabrina Carpenter (22:54) The legacy of Afrika Bambaataa (42:18) Rep. Eric Swalwell suspends campaign (51:59) Van makes an endorsement for Governor of CA (58:07) Trump’s Jesus post (1:11:07) Gucci Mane’s Pooh Shiesty diss (1:38:41) Travis Scott’s FEIN and the church (1:49:27) Mysterious death of influencer Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Jade Whaley Social Producer: Bernard Moore Video Supervision: Chris Thomas and Jacob Cornett Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Higher Learning is on and Zyvan Lathan Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lunzi. Rachel, how was Coachella? You have to start there. You know, I decided to go at the very, very last minute. I'm talking like I left Saturday.

Got there Saturday afternoon. Didn't know I was going until Friday. It's my home girl's birthday today. So she wanted to go, Natasha. She wanted to go for her birthday. And I wanted to go to see Bieber. So it all happened. Just came together a place to stay, passes, all the works.

Everybody did their part to make it happen. Me, Natasha, Leila. Layla went? Yeah, Leila went. Oh, interesting. Layla went. And like last minute. But it was worth it.

But I'm telling you, I think I'm over it. But I said this last year at Coachella too. No, no, no. No, no, no, no. It's such a, it's, it's such a hustle. It's so, like, you can't just enjoy yourself like you want to. It's so crowded. You can't get the way to, like, I don't know.

I think I'm just over festival life. But I did enjoy myself. Uh-huh. I did enjoy myself. I saw not a whole lot of people. It's just crazy. It's just a crazy is, it was wild because I'm not going to be out there all day. But I will say, I saw Bieber, of course,

I saw some DJs. I saw Major Laser who brought out MIA and I was very excited about that. Brought out MIA. Yeah, because Diplo did paper planes. Jesus Christ. And who else did I see?

MIA being embraced is like on the level of a Kanye type situation. Did she say as many things as Kanye? I have to remember what MIA did. Yeah, it's tough. It's really just like more anti-vax type stuff. Not really as she didn't go Nazi. Yeah, she's not Kanye.

Well, she's not, she's not Kanye, but she's gone like off of sort of the conspiracy theory deep in. It's interesting that it's not sticking to her. I think because she's not, maybe as in the public. She's also not. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But who else did I see? I tried to say for Carol G, but I had to get back. I drove back last night.

You didn't care about Carol G. No, she was 30 minutes late. I tried to pack, drive back. I didn't get back to like two something in the morning. Yeah, I just couldn't make it. But it was cool. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters.

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Bieber. I want to get Europeans on like how the show was in person. Let's go with Bieber. Yeah, all right. He performed on Saturday as their headliner. And the first half of this set focused on his newer tracks from Swag and Swag 2. And then later, he dove into his more classic hits. Wi-Fi, man. Come on. Wi-Fi.

Was it that bad or was it better than that? Okay. There's two competing. That was the whole thing that we just played? Yeah, because there was two people were, uh, people were, You either liked it or you didn't like it, right? So you're also coming off of Sabrina Carpenter who did this whole Sabrina Wood. And it was very once upon a time in Hollywood,

like just very, like all the theatrics, all the drama. And it was really cool. Like she drove away in a car. She was, you know, dancing in the rain. It was just, it was a lot. Like it was a grand performance. She was Friday. Then you had Bieber on Saturday.

And I think it's first, time headlining, people were thinking, okay, Bieber's back. He's going to do, he's basically following what she did. As a headliner, you do a huge performance. And Justin Bieber was in a hoodie singing his songs, standing there singing his songs. And then he switched it up where he sat down. He was on a laptop. And he started YouTube, getting on YouTube and looking up his songs. But he was using the clip you just saw right there. He was using Wi-Fi from the festival. and it wasn't working. And so people were like,

is this really your set? They thought that it was so minimal. They thought that he didn't do a lot because, and then they thought the YouTube thing went on for a really, really long time. And so people thought that he could have done a lot more for getting $10 million because he was the highest paid,

I guess, performer that they've ever had. He's the highest paid performer ever in the history of Coachella. I'm pretty sure, right? $10 million. Yeah, thank. Well, the YouTube thing also has to do with the fact that he doesn't own those songs anymore. So he has to, he sold his catalog in 2022.

So he can't sing them? Right. Really? That's what has been reported. Now, I'm not so sure how that works with a live performance, but what's been reported is that some of these songs Justin couldn't include as part of his set, so he did the YouTube thing,

and he only sang parts of those songs. He sang a little bits of them. I think that's an interesting way to go about that part of the performance, because in that part of the performance, you're hearkening back to like the first times that you met Justin Bieber. So it's kind of cool and nostalgia.

That's what I thought. Okay, so I did not have a problem with this. I wasn't, I came to see Justin Bieber perform. I came to see him sing. I came to enjoy the experience. You were a fuck about him like that? I was a believer back in the day. So interesting.

You were too? Oh, big time. Yeah. So I like Justin Bieber. I think that every time I hear, but for me, the Justin Bieber thing is every time I hear Justin Bieber

every time I hear Justin Bieber I'm surprised like almost every time every time I hear Justin Bieber I'm surprised at number one what a great singer he is and how melodic and downright soul for the music can be but like I I wouldn't think that you two would be like gigantic Justin Bieber fan

Do you think it's because you know a lot because of your TMZ days and there was so much going on with Justin during that time? Perhaps but also I think that I'm the gap in age here I'm only about five years older than you but I think that five years

really matters in this situation because I was good good and grown good and grown by the time Justin Bieber came along and he always kind of looked like a little whippersnapper in a way I mean you have to realize at least for me

you know I was 12 I was 11 when like he first started maybe even nine when baby came out but like when he really started getting pop and I was like 12 years old I was heavy on Justin at the time. Huh. Yeah.

I mean, I've liked the music for a really long time. I mean, I was older. Maybe I was too old to be listening to Justin Bieber, but I've always really enjoyed his music. And I loved, so like I said, I came for him for the music. I wanted to see him perform. I didn't care how he did it. I wasn't expecting anything.

And I think a lot of people, I liked the minimalist approach. And for people who were so shocked that he didn't do more, if you watched his performance at the Grammys, I knew right then and there, that was the vibe that I was going to get. It was very much so about the music, about the performance of it all, like how he was performing it,

and just like him as an artist, that's what I felt like. That's what he gave us. But people were behind me yelling. They were like, play the hits. Come on. Play the, like, because he was screaming. I mean, not screaming.

They were screaming. He was singing like, Hallelujah. He was doing like some, what felt like some new stuff. It mainly was after off swag and swag too, and people were upset. So then when he started doing the YouTube thing, I thought it was cool because there was a moment, there were a couple of moments where he was turned around and he was singing to himself. And so it was the grown version and you had the back of him and he was singing to the younger version. And he has like this deeper voice now compared to this baby voice he had. And it was this nostalgic experience that I thought was really cool.

and, you know, he was remembering where he had come from. And then he did covers of Chris Brown. He did a cover of Neo. Some of the songs that made him popular on YouTube. So I really liked if you were, as we kept saying, where my day ones? Do you all remember this? Who's been with me from the beginning?

So it felt like a tribute to the day ones in that moment where everyone didn't like the YouTube. I got it. I liked it. It seems like the YouTube part only lasted for around 25 minutes. How long was the show? Like an hour and a half. Okay.

So like there was a, It seemed to be a little bit more multifaceted than what people gave him credit for online, at least as the... I just feel like people just love to complain, you know, and pick certain things apart. Maybe watching it from home, it felt like a different experience,

but being there in the mix, if you were a fan, you were a fan and you appreciated it. I wasn't there like play the hits. I was there for the experience. Yeah. Now, when you get the $10 million, dollars do you then take that 10 million dollars and is part of that what you spend on a production because if you take the 10 million dollars if they give you 10 million dollars and part of that is

financing what it is that you do i think what he did was genius yeah that's what some people were saying also let's not forget he brought out whiz kid and tims yeah so and that was a moment right that was that was a really fun time if they gave me the 10 million dollars and i would save all of the shit i would like people said yeah i would say i would what the fuck we got to to do. I make Jade and Bernard, I'd be like, hey, Jay, Bernard,

between the three of us, we got to produce. Not even Donnie. Donnie would be too expensive in this situation. I need a nigga with no car. Like, that's what I need.

Donnie would be too expensive. I wouldn't even pay for Donnie. Jack, CT, nobody. No ringer staff is me and Bernard. Actually, Jade, you're not even, me and Bernard are going to figure out the show. We're going to come out there with like a mic. I'm just,

and the whole thing, I'm going to do the whole thing. I might not even have sound. No me? No, no, fuck, what? Way to. Your first black bachelor, you minted in these streets.

Me and Bernard are going to do that whole thing. We're going to spend maybe $5,000 on the whole production. Then the rest of a week going to fucking Vegas, Justin the man. I don't give a fuck what you all talking about. And by the way, there is something I will say, I am a fan of Justin Bieber insofar as I really do like Justin Bieber's music when I hear it.

I just can't think of ever like, Justin Bieber's coming out and I'm going to go listen to it. That's different than Justin Timberlake. Justin Timberlake, I was an actual fan for a while. With Bieber though, it was interesting watching him sit there as an older man. He's 32 now. And the younger Justin Bieber be like on the screen. It was really, is a mom.

To think of everything that's happened since that kid wanted to get his start and where he is actually now. I thought that that was kind of striking to see. Yeah. But, you know, I'm a regular nigga that don't have a lot of shit. Look, actually do have a lot of shit to complain about. But this next thing is something that I, is emblematic to me of how miserable people are on the internet right now. Sabrina Carpenter. Yeah, she headlined on Friday night the night before.

Her performance featured cameo appearances from Susan Sarandon, Will Ferrell and Sam Elliott. but there was a specific moment that she would later end up apologizing for. I think I heard someone yodel. Is that what you're doing? I don't like it. That's your culture, is yodeling? Is this burning man?

What's going on? This is weird. So apparently that's a cultural yodel. Rachel, did you see what it was? Like, Donnie, what's the yodel? What was the yodel there? So I don't want to step on anybody's culture in any way,

perform. The yodel is, it was, it's from, it's, I don't know, sure if I'm pronouncing it right,

but it's Zagruda, Zagruda. Okay, it's Zagruda, culture, and it was, it's a yodel. That's what the call is called.

It's called a, okay, so what, guys, listen. It's an Arabic. It's an Arabic, it's an Arabic,

it's an Arabic, cultural staple. You yodel, you make that sound when you're excited. Yeah, it's like a celebration. Celebration time.

Now, how the fuck was she posed to know that? Yeah, and you've been to Coachella too. So, like, it's actually amazing. It's a lot quieter than you think up there, which is why she could hear some of it. But from where she was on the stage about to play in the music, like, you have to set the scene. She's about to play. It was a quiet moment.

She hears that. She can't quite tell what it is, which she expresses later. But in that moment, I think people took it. We have more context hearing it from the Internet than you do. in the moment of a performance? I'm just, first of all, we should say that this has not been a huge deal. It was a thing that happened. She came out and went my bad, and we're moving on.

It was a big thing after Friday, after Friday. Well, yeah, I guess it was a big thing. I guess the whole conceit here is really interesting to me. Like, how do you know? Like, how are you supposed to know? Particularly in this situation, there are other things where I could argue that maybe you should know. that maybe you don't have enough penetration with the culture that you're around all the time

you're not taking an interest in that culture. If you live around black people all the time and there are certain things about black people, if you live in a culture or a community with black people and you don't know these things, I'd be like, all right, you're not interested in that and this is kind of emblematic of why so many streams get crossed in situations like this.

But in this, there's just no way to know she wasn't rude about it. So I'm like, we really do. we really do have to have just a smidge more of grace and patience with one another that it seems like we're ready to have right now. Yeah, if she in that moment had said, somebody said, what is that?

And she says, they say my culture. But she goes yodeling. Like she was confused. Like yodeling is a part of your culture. If she had said Zagruta is a part of your culture and then spoke specifically to that, it would have been a totally different thing. but she seemed confused like I've never heard yodeling as a part of somebody's culture and so you know she was like that's weird I've never heard about it but but in her defense even more so when she did learn she came out and she apologized and if I was giving this apology or rating I would give it like a seven you like that well I think that she said listen she explained the situation from the stage she explained what it was and she said I was confused and I was confused and

blah blah blah blah blah I could have handled it better now I know what it is and I welcome those type of cheers from here on out what more could she have said she didn't try to defend it really yeah and it was immediate yeah so we'll say this though it's interesting that the highest that's like one of the highest ones yeah it's like a white woman oh okay well you can make it that if you want to I mean well it's remember this is pretty this is pretty this is pretty You don't remember Anton Shagore? Yo, who knows who Anton Shagore is on this podcast

right now? I do. No, don't fucking look it up. Don't look it up. Don't look it up. Don't look it up. Don't look it up. Don't you know what that is? Yeah, I do. Who is that, Donnie? He's the murderer with the haircut from No Country for Old Man. From Old Country for No Men. How? We're doing a, you guys realize we're doing a pop culture podcast. You don't know who that is?

I don't know who that is. You always do this. It's weird. You know who Anton Shagore? No. From no culture for old men, Javier Bredem with the haircut. He says, you have to have seen the movie. Donny,

when did he say that? He said that in the, when did he was in the gas station? I'm not saying it. That's how it is. That's how it is. And that's why I was saying to you. I'm not saying that.

That's how it is. But you know what? I accept it. Let me tell you why I accept it. Because I don't want to get into a situation of defending white women. There's only one other white woman that I've ever defended.

And who's that? That's Pamela Anderson after I saw the sex tape. Okay. I was like, it was impressive to me. Okay. If that's your standard, I mean, that's like... It's not standard. It's what happened.

That's just... I pulled another shaguar. I shagore it twice. And look, I'm going to be real with you, man. I don't know what it is. I fuck with Sabrina Carpenter. I fuck with Sabrina Carpenter in a way I haven't fucked with a white woman pop singer in a long time. I don't know why.

I don't either. I like a little problematic ass. I don't think she's problematic. She is. She problematic. She's out there trying to push the limits and stuff. She's not problematic in a culturally problematic way. But I like her little spicy ass, man.

I fuck with her. I like her a lot. I like her music. I like her. She just seems very, I don't know, there's just like an ease about her. She doesn't take herself too seriously. Like she acknowledges her faults. She pushes to your point, like the man child and the cover of the album.

And a lot of people had an issue with it. And she was like, it is what it is. Leia was not fucking with that. Alea. Alea didn't like it. First of all, shout out to Alleya. We have a producer here. If you guys ever listen to the Midnight Boys, you've heard,

she used to be on higher learning as well. Alea is my, so if you guys think that I am woke or Alea is, but Leia is the one. Like that's the one that, hey, is this wrong? Is somebody going to be mad? Alea went into a whole breakdown of why that cover was problematic and all of that stuff.

But all she did was turn me on a Sabrina Carpenter, and now I'm fucking with Sabrina Carpenter. Shout out to Zach Ruda, though. Shout out to everyone that's doing their calls everywhere. I fuck with you, too. But yeah, I thought it was cool. So other than that, nothing else from Coachella? What else you got?

I know people that, like, had to go to Coachella. People that were like, because on Saturday, Cleo Wade, Nicole Richie had a talk at the first congressional Baptist church on Wilshire, and I went there and read a poem. You know who's there? Who? Neil Westbrook was there. Oh, okay.

Okay. New Westbrook saw me nearly cry up there reading a poem in the church. You wrote a poem? I did not write the poem. Okay. What was this for? What was this about? Cleo's got a book coming out.

Cleo Way has a book coming out. So we went up and we talked about it. Nicole and Cleo were in conversation together. They should have a podcast. And then Cleo had asked us before that people that she knew to get up and read a poem when I read a poem. But like I was talking to somebody on the way there. They were talking about how they weren't going to Coachella. Look at him that night there in Coachella.

they couldn't the call of Coachella was just a lot of people like in you and Layla it's saying the call of Coachella they put the big C in the goddamn and Rachel just put her fucking mask on or their hat Desert hat got to go I saw you I text Calica I text Calica and I go I'm in Coachella

who was the friend I was with yeah that was Natasha what does Natasha do who is that I don't know her I love that you're like I got I'm supposed to know all my friends I'm supposed to know who all Natasha lives in New York Okay what she do She was on The Bachelor, maybe a couple of years. No, that's Sierra.

Okay. She was on The Bachelor a couple of years after me. And she was New York. Like, she used to work in production like Sony, Paramount, HBO. She went on The Bachelor a couple of years after. And we've been friends. She was on my season, but we've been friends. A couple of years after me.

I watched it. She was trying to, like she was fake trying to shake some ass in the video. She wasn't acting like she was trying to. She was. She was. What are you doing? She didn't commit. to it. No, she was teasing. It was a tease. Oh, a tease. Oh, sexy daddy. A father.

Anyways, that's his birthday was. That's who we went to celebrate. Oh, fantastic. Good for her. Everybody that's having, it's another weekend at Coachella next weekend, right? Or is it still two weekends? Yeah, it's still two weekends. Are you going back? I am not. You're going to be that, niggas? No, I'm not going back. I did exactly what I wanted to do. I wanted to see Bieber. You wanted to see Bieber. I saw Young Thug, too. That's who else I saw. Oh, Thub. Yeah, he had a set last night. How was his set? You know, the visuals looked a lot like Travis Scott,

but they were really good. I mean, Travis Scott has good visuals, too. But he was good. He talked a lot to the audience, and it made me laugh. I was like, no wonder you were talking all that stuff on the tapes that they leaked, because that's how he was in the audience. He saw Tiana Taylor, and he was like,

Tiana, man, I tried to get you to style me for this set. And he was like, but they kept telling me you were too busy or that you would call me back. And she's like, I didn't know that you hit me up. And he was like, well, your people told me you would call me back and you didn't. Like, he's having this conversation. They're talking on the thing? On the stage, like on stage. But he was good.

He was good. Good crowd. He was right before Carol G. I argue that Tiana Taylor right now is one of the top five most beloved people in the town. Mm-hmm. Everyone loves Tiana. Everyone loves Tiana. Oh, speaking of, I'm doing, I'm doing Stanna.

up. When and where? I'm doing stand up on May 4th Ada Rodriguez. Shout out to her. She asked me she's doing like a little fake not celebrity but like people that you know doing stand up for the first time as part of the Netflix of a joke thing. I got like three minutes I think where you're I don't know where it is yet. Okay well I got to be there. We have to record it three minutes. Yeah. You've been working on it you know you know like the angle you want to do but I don't know three minutes goes quick. It does. And I'm very long-winded, so I might tell it I need five. Can I have five minutes? So that

means you can have one long joke? Well, yeah, just because I have a whole deal. You're not going to do the best? You know how like kill Tony does the one? You have one minute and you just say whatever you want? Like if you do it like that? I'm not a stand-up, so I really wouldn't know how to do that. You're a storyteller. I'm a storyteller. I'm a storyteller. And the next story that we have

is some bullshit. African Bombada, the hip-hop pioneer who helped give the genre shape at house and street parties in the Bronx in the early 70s but whose legacy was later tarnished by very widespread accusations

of sexual abuse died last week in Pennsylvania he was 68 years old we should talk about the allegations specifically 12 men did I just say that he might have just said that 12 men

I didn't okay had accused Africa Babbata of sexually abusing them. And the range of this sexual abuse goes from one-on-ones they had with Africa Babata and then also accusations of being trafficked. And there were different ways that these men described being groomed by Africa Babata. There were different ways that these men described being enticed and manipulated by Africa Bavada. Yeah.

And this is over a long time. with different ages, some of them being really, really, really young. Yeah, I mean, the allegations date back to the 70s. And, you know, it's being alleged that he used his power and his position within the Zulu nation to, you know, bring in. I guess he was, the allegations are that this abuse occurred, not just with him, but within his inner circle. It's also reported or alleged that they knew about it. And that's why he eventually lost his position within the Zulu Nation because I guess, I don't know if there was, he has never admitted that he did this. But I guess there was enough around it to where he had to be removed from his position.

And so, yeah, and there's a couple of lawsuits in regard to this. 2021. I think the first allegations were like 10 years ago, but 2021, there was a lawsuit, a civil lawsuit, and then 2025 there was an actual judgment, but that's because he never responded to the lawsuit, so it was a default judgment in regards to that specific suit. Back when this first happened, and I didn't realize this, this only came up What happened recently that somebody brought this up? Diddy? Oh, no, that's what it was.

It was usher and diddy. And somebody on Twitter was like, go back and look at how KRS1 defended Afakam Bambata at the time when some of these allegations were first coming out. And this was 2016, so we almost certainly would have covered this on TMZ, but I do not remember this video. I'm going to play a little bit of KRS 1 because there were various different,

esteemed hip-hop luminaries that I weighed in on the death of Africa Bhabada now. But I'm going to play you in 2016 what KRS 1 said and just have to, in order to put this in context, about Africa Babbata then. Donnie? I just think for balance that everything, both perspectives should be given a respectful acknowledgement. Not against Africa Bamban. They're not Africa Bambana. Nobody's in touch. No one's untouchable.

No, yes you are. We have to learn that. No, we have to learn that. No, no, our leadership has to be untouchable or they're not leaders. Okay. Before that,

KRS 1 talked about the fact that well, he goes on to talk about the fact that that is the way the Democrats are loyal to Joe Biden, that is the way the Republicans are loyal to Donald Trump, and that that is something that black people have to learn, that hip hop has to learn, that in order to indict African Bambata is to indict all of hip hop. And if we can't hold him sacred and untouchable, then we can't hold hip hop sacred and untouchable. And I think because, you know, African Babbat dies and

Chuck D comes out and Chuck D says that he wants to separate African Babbat's life and the allegations away from what he did from music and he is rightfully excoriated for that and criticized

for that and I think he either deleted the tweet or he came back in a different tweet to kind of clarify what he made these two responses are profound to me they're profound First of all, there is no, you don't have to honor anyone.

That's very true. You don't have to honor anyone. And there are certainly things that one can do that makes them unworthy of being honored. There are things that somebody can do. If you tell the story of hip hop, you can't tell it without Africa, my body, that's true. Right. The question, though, is whether or not when he passes away, that you have to say nice things about him.

Correct. And I just, I think this is like something that people struggle with a little bit more than like, than we talk about, than we discuss. We don't talk about how difficult it is for people to understand, the horrors that someone can be responsible for and how that can negate all of the other things that they did, particularly when those things are artistic. It's, it's, it's, I'm, I'm more infatuated with. this idea than I am with almost anything else that we talk about culturally.

I mean, we've talked about it before a lot in regards to certain people, you know, who have been accused of heinous acts. And we talked about it and we say this won't be the last time that we've talked about it. And we talk about how, you know, you only have so many people who make it out, so many people who do great things that when it feels like you take, when you learn something like this about them, it feels like it's like an indictment almost, I guess, on the culture. Or you feel like you want to protect it

because you don't have as many people who do these things, I guess, compared to white people. Like, we've talked about this in that sense before. But I guess in this clip, if you listen to the whole thing, KRS-1 says something like, well there were four allegations like I'm not going to do this over four something like that for people and it just becomes to well then what is the boundary like what is the standard what how are we measuring this is what I don't understand what is too much what is okay you I just don't understand that like I think that there is a way to you were telling the story of hip hop if you wanted to talk about the history

you can mention Africa bombata but that doesn't mean that you have to respect him as he goes on to talk about this. Like in this clip, he's talking about respect, respect, respect is something that is earned. You have to not center the person and their art. You have to make sure you're centering the victim, those people who are impacted. And the ability to be able to disregard someone's allegations, someone's pain, someone's hurt because you want to protect the art is wild to me. Like that's, that is a very, very, dark thing. Like I need the people who want, who have the desire to do that to really sit with that. You want to minimize somebody's pain in order to protect art. I understand that it hurts,

if it's, excuse me, somebody that you have revered. I understand that like that is hard for you to accept. But at the end of the day, there are people who are deeply impacted where this is affecting their lives because they were taking advantage of. They were harmed. They were mistreated, but you want us to remember the music they made. Or you want us to remember what they contributed to the culture and nothing else. Like there has to be a standard. And the standard is this is unacceptable. So the cultural part is interesting because you can criticize African Bombata or not even criticized.

You can rightfully villainize African Bombata for the things that, for the various, allegations that have been leveled against him. You can, right? To me, culture comes in on the backside of it. Africa Bombada doing what he did has nothing to do with hip-hop culture. The indictment of hip-hop culture is the protection of him. Correct. That happens after that.

That's the indictment of the culture. Kira's one in that clip is saying that if you get at Africa Bombata, know that you indict all of hip-hop culture because he's that form of an important in hip-hop. No, that's not true. This is one guy who existed and is very formative and is very important in hip hop. It's one guy, right? Doesn't represent all different types of breakdancing, be-boying, graffiti, emceeing, and DJing. Like, the fact that he was accused of these terrible things, victimized people in these terrible ways,

doesn't have to do at all with a cold. of other people who are using this R form to express themselves. What is, though, what is though a direct indictment of that culture is if that culture rallies around that guy in spite of things like this, then what you have are people, and not everyone has done this, by the way, there are people. I watched The Moral Technique talk about it and talk about how difficult it's been for him to be outspoken about this. If you then, as a group and as a culture, right,

if you then say, doesn't matter, we still have to exalt him, now I'm looking at it and I'm going, okay, that is indicative to me of something that is wrong. That's a contagion that exists inside of that culture, right? Because the question very blankly, very plainly is, like, like,

How much art do you have to produce in order for the privilege to rape a nine-year-old? And I'm telling you guys right now that that is what essentially is being said. What essentially is being said is you can make art so good. You can make music so good. You can construct culture so well that that gives you the right to rape a child. And I'm sorry, Bambata is not the only one that we have this. blind spot with. Yeah.

Right. And so sit with that. Like, sit with that type of thing. That's not me trying to be holy or than that or anything like that. But consider that. Consider the reality that, like, there's stuff that you could do and you could be so dope at it, so dope at it, that that gives you the right to sneak into somebody's room, pull them into your room, like a child, and then assault them, rape them.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just why is the, why is it not that you don't demand more from the people who you deem to be, you know, cultural leaders or to have impacted our culture in such a way? Why is it not I, it's not that you automatically get respect, which is what I was saying, you have to earn it. Why is it not that you demand them to be better? That's, I guess that's just like what I, I, I would love to hear. hear this the clip that you played that's from what like 10 years ago right because he's because he's talking about Hillary Clinton in this I would love to hear if he has revisited this and changed it in light of ditty in light of Russell Simmons in light of who else I can't I that R. Kelly in light of some of these things not saying that they these things hadn't happened before and

these and there weren't rumblings about what these people did but the fact that they have it has come out and they have been held accountable in various ways. I'd be very curious to what you think now because that mindset that you had in 2016, then if that's the case, then Diddy should never have been convicted. So I would be curious to hear, I don't know, I didn't research it,

if he's said anything since this interview in regard to the people who have such an impact on the culture and whether we should separate the art from their personal life. Um, Bambada was, uh, sued civilly. And he did not show up for that suit, uh, in 2021. And, uh, default judgment was granted in that particular case. Um, it's just important for how we want to be. Like, for how we want to be, it's important that when we talk about culture, remember that culture is not one man, one artist, is not two artists, it's not three artists.

Culture is something. that's supposed to be definitive and edifying and expressive for a whole group of people. And inherent to culture is protection. To me, the number one existence of culture is the protection of the people that are a part of that culture. Culture provides protection. It provides oneness. It provides tribe. And in tribe, when you come together with people, those numbers are supposed to be people that trust and understand your life.

life experiences where you come from and what it is that you are about. Culture is supposed to protect you. And the moment that it doesn't, it is useless. And all of the conversations that we have, sometimes we go too far and trying to, you know, identify things that are hurtful and harmful, completely get it. But the one thing that will never be under discussed is whether or not any specific culture is actually harming us or protecting us. And so some of the OGs disappointed me on this one.

Who else says something? I mean, it's a bunch of other people. Like we've called out, but like some of the OGs disappointed me on this one. And some of the just do not seem capable of being introspective about what hip hop is but don't seem capable of being truthful about some of this stuff.

And look, once again, not whaler than now because we've had the conversation before about, you know, R. Kelly, we've had the conversation before about Michael Jackson. We've had the conversation before about other people that have allegations swirling around them. So, and it's

difficult to be consistent on it when these artists and these people have different meanings to different people. There are some people, we're just so connected as human beings to talent. You know, I'm going to try to be like, in a way, talent is like the only thing

that makes us human in a way. What do you mean? So like, and not because I believe that everyone is talented. To give you an example. Do you ever see that movie? No, you didn't see it. So there are two movies.

There are movies called The Day to Earth Stood Still. And there's one from the 50s and it's about this alien lands on Earth. And when this alien comes to Earth, he brings this like gigantic destroyer with him and the aliens

looking around exploring the earth to decide whether or not he is going to have this thing destroy the earth okay they remade the movie

like 2009 2010 maybe 2011 something like that maybe even 2007 I can remember with Keanu Reeves Keanu Reeves Keanu Reeves played the guy

that was going out to exploring humanity and they had the big tall alien thing that was going to destroy everyone um And in the Keanu Reeves character, he's like meeting people, he's connecting with people, he's touching people, he's doing all of this, he's trying to find out whether or not humanity is worth saving or worth annihilation. And he's talking to his doctors and getting all these numbers and figures.

And the doctor is playing Wagner or Chakowsky or something like that. He hears the music. He hears what human beings are capable of. the beauty that human beings can produce. Like our ability to take our emotions and translate them through movement, through dance, through song. Our ability to connect with things, build things, our ability to harness the sky to explore.

There's a part of us that our ability to create almost justifies our existence. And that's what happened in that movie. So when people are exceptional at that, when they can do these things that people, other people look at and they say, hey, that's amazing. Like, it makes you feel like you're more than just meat. It makes you feel, when you see someone do something and you're truly inspired, it makes you feel like you're more than just like a piece of meat hurling through space on a rock. Yes, it feels purposeful.

You feel connected to it. It feels otherworldly almost. It's like, especially if it's something that you can't do, you can almost even fathom it. So like the way that that thing makes you feel, the way you feel connected to it, it feels very spiritual. And so, yeah, like I understand what you're saying when you talk about humanity and talent. But what we have to remember is almost anything that people are exalted for and history teaches this lesson so clearly, almost anything that people are exalted for can be weaponized for them to abuse you. because there's another part of humanity. And that other part of humanity is the part

that is not defined by talent, that's not defined by culture. The other part is defined by selfishness, obsession, the want to dominate people, and the just viciousness between people. And we can't let talent... This episode is brought to you by Sweet Cream.

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Yeah. We can't. It doesn't matter who it is. Where should we go next? How do we keep the show flowing? Because we got to get into politics now. Rachel, Rachel's choice. Swalwell, Melania, Trump, as Christ.

If I could pick two out of the three. Two out of the three. I'd boot Melania. Out of here, Melania. Let's go. Let's go the congressman. You want to talk about Swalwell? Take it away.

Donnie? All right. Eric Swalwell, Democratic Congressman from the Bay Area, said in a post on Sunday that he is suspending his campaign for California governor in the wake of allegations that he sexually assaulted a former staff member and engaged in sexual misconduct. conduct with other women. That woman, the accuser, she worked for Swalwell. She said that she had sexual encounters with him while he was her boss and alleged that he twice sexually assaulted her when she was too intoxicated to consent. I read Swalwell's statement. He said to my family,

staff, friends, and supporters, I'm deeply sorry for mistakes and judgment I've made in the past. I'll fight the serious false allegations that have been made, but that's my fight, not a campaign. When you hear that statement, what do you take away from that? Well, I mean, what, yeah. Particularly the last part, I'm deeply mistaken, or, well, the whole thing, really, I'm deeply sorry for mistakes and judgment I've made in my past. Well, he's not going to come out and admit to all of the things that he did. What he's going to try to do is say that all of these things were consensual,

and because they were consensual, that they were actually mistakes and not violations. So in a way, it's like what he was going to say. Like, I've just read so many of them. I've seen so many of them. I've like seen when people were crafting them. I know the people that craft statements like this. That's part for course. Yeah.

I mean, he's admitting to having affairs, basically. He's admitting to. And there was something I read earlier where he was like basically saying it came across that he has discussed, he hates that his wife has to go through these things because it almost feels like whatever has happened in the past they've dealt with privately and now it's coming out publicly. but, you know, no, it's just, well, it's just disappointing in the sense that, like, these are allegations, I'll say that, you know, I'll maintain that.

But I guess what bothers me is the immediate blame, shifting the blame away from, I understand you have to defend yourself, right? He's not, he is not, he's saying that he did not do these things. He's alluding that it was, that he had extramarital affairs maybe, or did certain things towards his wife, but he's basically maintaining their consensual. But I guess the immediate, and I don't know if it was him who said this or someone from his staff, because the staffers are asking for him to step down. You have people in Congress in the Democratic Party asking for him to step down, not just remove himself for the race, which he has, but also to step down from his

position in Congress is the immediate, well, the timing of this is very convenient. I don't like blame shifting. If you want to maintain that you did not do. do this, fine. If you're saying you didn't do it, that's what you didn't do. But to say, well, that this is really convenient because I'm in the middle of a governor's race and, you know, I'm leading in this regard and basically the timing of it seems convenient since the race is coming up. I don't like that.

I don't like shifting the blame of blaming it on instead of acknowledging maybe pass indiscretions, maybe acknowledging that there was something there's truth to what these women are claiming you're saying well they're doing this because they want me out of the race not good and whether it's true I don't like that

I'm not saying I expect him to say what these women are saying is true he's defending himself but don't say oh it's because the Republicans want me out of this race because I'm doing so well if you want to say I stepped out on my wife I've dealt like fine but don't make it seem like you're above all of this do you understand I don't like you blaming it on somebody else you something happened whether it was consensual

or not something happened don't blame it own up to whatever it is that you did don't shift the blame so there are many different accounts by women these accounts are run the entire gamut of sexual misconduct. There are women that alleged that they were in relationships that were consensual with him that ended up becoming non-consensual or that he put them in positions

where they couldn't consent. So a couple of women said, yeah, I sent stuff back to him. Yeah, this happened. This encounter might have been consensual. But then there was one time we went out, one woman alleges, and I woke up the next morning. I didn't know what happened, but it's clear that we had sex. So that's the case of clear-cut sexual assault.

Either that happened in the way that she said it did, or didn't, and Eric Swalwell is somebody who praise on people. That much seems to be true. It seems that if you were a staffer of Eric Swalwell and you were an attractive woman, that he would harvest you, that there was a harvesting that he would do as far as the young women that were around him. That in and of itself is enough to say that somebody should not have power and be in that type of position.

Right. Like if you're around here trying to hit on and have sex with all the young women that are around you, that's like a whole thing. You're a politician and they work under you and whatever, whatever, whatever. Right. That's an indictment on you. Not blaming it on the fact that they want you out of the race. I should also say that the district attorney is looking into one of these allegations, which doesn't necessarily prove that it happened, but it definitely makes it seem like it's not just some trivial thing either. They're actually looking into an accusation or a couple that have been made. Right. Now, having said all of that, if he is going to go into that good night gently, then you just go away, which he chose not to do, which they never can do, right, because they want to have a career outside of this and past this.

But you almost have to say it's politically motivated. That's like the one thing you have to say. Whether it is or isn't, don't use it as a distraction from the fact that you did something. Right. Right. That's, I guess, what I don't like. Of course. Like, of course, you want to do things and maybe they did or they didn't.

But to say, like, hey, don't pay attention to what I'm being accused of. Pay attention to the fact that this is just the Republican Party trying to pull me out of the race because I'm a threat. No, like that kind of attitude or ego to me is even more so an indictment on you because the fact that like there's something, right, whether it was consensual or not consensual, you knew that this was out here, yet you still were trying to run for governor, yet you still are maintaining your position in Congress. Like you thought you were above it and you could get away with it. This is an indictment on Eric Swalwell.

Yeah, the women say it wasn't condemned. Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, of course. But, okay, so look, the reason why I guess that's not jumping out at me, because and I'll make a mini announcement after this and I'm sure that the people that I'm going to make the announcement about aren't happy that it's coming in this context but like that part of it assumes something

that I think politicians assume all the time that part assumes that the people that are inside of their political tent are so captured that they can do something like this and then the explanation of I'm just being harassed by the other side is going to work. And the reason why they assume that is because it does work.

It does work. It is proven. We're not talking about Trump in a second. But it doesn't just work on the right. It works crazy on the left. Crazy on the left. Whatever that politician is that we're not allowed to criticize. We're not allowed to talk about because that criticism is too damaging.

Some of this stuff does not. rise to the level of sexual assault. But I'm talking about just overall being able to look at something that someone said or did or didn't do after they promised it and went like, hey, guys, just so you know, that is whack. Like that thing is whack. And then having a group of people go, fuck you, you're with the Republicans, fuck you, you're with the Democrats, fuck you, you're not a part of our team winning. The reason why they continue to talk to people like that is because that is the

the language that they are taught to speak in. They're taught to speak in the language of, this isn't about what I did or didn't do. This is about the fact that the other side is mounting this challenge against me and the only way to beat them is to go along with what the fuck I got popping. That's it.

So you can't interrogate me, what I've done, who I am, what I plan to do, or things I didn't follow through on because that makes you the enemy. And so like when we throw the word cult around, there's a lot of cults. And in this one, he,

in this case was saying that, hey, if you were a supporter of me before, you're actually not a rational person that can look at swallow. This guy probably should not be the governor of California. That I have captured you enough to where you will go, I can't let them beat me. We just talked about this.

I can't let them beat me. So I have to swallow what the fuck this guy's got going. So I just see that all over the place, which is pause and separate. I'm doing something right now. I'm endorsing and will vote for Butch Ware for Governor of California. When I saw this story and Butch and everyone else, I don't mean to connect you guys a story surrounding sexual assault.

When I saw this story, it became obvious to me that I need to politically and energetically support things and people who I believe are in, energetic community with me. And the reality is, political machines aside, what I believe in is reflected in ButchWare's platform. The way I look at the world is reflected in Butchware's platform. When I was at the get-together at Cal State, LA,

the movement, the energy inside of that, that's reflected in that platform. And not just a way of politics in a way of being. That's probably my home. So there are a lot of people running for governor in California. I will be endorsing and supporting. And if I have to, writing in Butchware for governor of California.

Well, that's big because you talk about not endorsing politicians in that way. So that's very big. I mean, like you really believe in what Dr. Butchware? I'm doing it right now. Well, I'm curious to see more of it. But yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to see more of that and I want to see more of not excusing

bad behavior of people with power or that you revere as we talked about before. Because when I watched Eric Swalwell's attorney talked to CNN and the way he tried to excuse what Eric Swalwell is being accused of, the way he tried to insinuate things.

Shout out to Alex, who was doing the questioning because he challenged him every single way. He said, what does that mean? Are you saying that what these women are doing? The attorney was basically really trying to almost, what's the word, basically making it an indictment on the women rather than acknowledging their accusations,

which I'm not expecting the attorney to do, but just the way that he was, I don't know, almost like demeaning the women. We got to, we got to let that go. We got to normalize the fact that when people are abused, they don't follow a certain playbook. You cannot expect the moment that it happens that they're going to make the,

publicize the accusation. People are affected in different ways. People try cope in different ways. People tell their story in different ways. There is no playbook and you cannot go after somebody because they don't do it the way that you think they should. You just don't. You never know what is going to trigger someone or make someone feel brave enough or empowered enough to finally tell their story. Because when you minimize their story as that

attorney tried to do, which I understand he is representing Eric Swalwell, it gives power to a person who is being accused of certain things and it normalizes one side and minimizes the other. Right. Eric Swalwell clearly is not in a position where he should be the governor of California or he should have people around him that he has power over, right? Clearly. Because he abuses it. Because he abuses them.

He allegedly abuses them. We have to say allegedly here. Allegations in the last case, allegations in this one. The thing is whether or not you believe them. I am not going to tell anyone what they should or should not believe. Like when stuff is when their allegations made, the reality is either they happened or they didn't. And even when they did happen, it is still up to the individual to navigate for themselves, how they want to respond to the person that the allegations are made against, right?

So like, it's up to people to respond in that sense for themselves. What is clear, though, is whether it's honoring someone or having political office and political power, there are things you can do that make you not qualified for that, not worthy of that. So now it's up to Eric Swalwell and his legal team to go out and prove that none of this stuff happened. And it's going to be up to the other side to prove that it did in fact happen because I'm thinking that they're probably going to be civil suits in the situations where it can be civil suits. It's probably going to be like you just said, there's an actual criminal case that is now, by the way. Investigating it. So there's probably going to be ramifications that come on the other side of this. And there's a, I think there's a, look this up for me. There's a Republican congressman down in Texas, I think, who, uh, there are also people are calling to step down because of allegations of sexual assault, sexual harassment, that they're made against him. All right. So like this is, it's, you know, it's not a partisan issue. It's an issue of power and exploitation. Yep. Okay. You get his name, J. Jay didn't get his name.

That's okay. Tony Gonzalez. Tony Gonzalez. Tony Gonzalez, right? So this is something that we're talking about in culture. And people have thought that the battle against sexual assault and trying to protect people, women, young women, men, young boys. People thought that that battle was over.

It's clearly not. It is something that society has always contended with. And we'll continue to contend with it as long as we try to protect people for being abused by power. All right. Now, Trump has made an announcement. I made an announcement about my support for Butchware for governor. And Trump has finally made the announcement that I thought I am wrong. I am so wrong on this podcast like a lot of times. I'm wrong a lot. But this is the wrongest I've ever been. What? Because Trump made an announcement that I was expecting him to make for a long time. And it did not get greeted with the reaction that I thought it would. Yeah, let's give some

backstory. Trump posted a lengthy message attacking the Pope calling him specifically weak on crime and terrible on foreign policy. And this is after criticism came from the Pope who publicly condemned the conflict in Iran. Now, after he attacked the Pope, Trump posted this picture of himself. It's an AI-generated picture of himself as it looks like he's Jesus appearing to heal somebody. And in a rare move deleted the post. He reversed. So look, you guys, it was just a matter of time before Trump, before Trump took the feedback from his group, his people, his cult, and made the statement that he is God. They treat him like God.

They treat them like God. They treat them like God. How does, should I say, the MAGA cohort treat Trump like God? Number one, everything that Donald Trump does is mysterious to us but will work out in the end. That's faith. That's religion. That's God. Right.

So it doesn't matter. Trump come out and do something that obviously doesn't make any sense, but in the end, it will make totally sense. God. Deep devotion and loyal. to not just Donald Trump, but his entire family. God, think about that. We don't just love God. We love anyone that's close to God.

We love Mary, God's mama, Jesus is Mama. Jesus is God's son. We love the son and the father. We love God's friends. All of God's friends, we love them. All of the apostles, all of everyone that God touched. Everyone, everyone around God is like, the closer you are to God, the more we love.

you maga everyone around god they love them they love fucking donald trump junior one of the most unlovable people in the entire world they got to love them yeah why god god's boy loves every single one of them right all of that you have the unyielding undying faith they buy and do and indulge into whatever god says god told us sunday's a holy day it's the holy day god tells you what kind of food to eat. You eat it. Trump gives you shoes. Trump give you coin. Trump give you a mean coin. Trump give you a brand.

Everything that he touches is holy to his people. They were already worshiping him. And so he said, oh, you know what? I'm being worshiped to this degree. I'm God. This to me was a natural thing that was going to happen. And they actually was like, no, that's too far. It's not his fault. You, to me, have been worshipping him to such a degree that at some point he was going to be like, they must be right.

I must be the Christ child. And he posted this meme. And the Republicans actually went, ah, it's a little too far. Which was surprising to me. It was surprising to me to see all of these people that have eaten the gruel, that have believed the lies. Like, for example, like the big lie about the election. That's an obvious lie. That's an obvious lie.

Like a 24-carat gold minted lie. But they're like, I God said it, so it must be true. They invent reasons that the shit must have happened. They do. So, like, to me, to see everybody go, I can't believe the president would do this, and I can't believe he would. Why wouldn't you believe it?

There's nothing that you've ever held him accountable on nothing that you've ever investigated him on. Some of you, the ones that have investigated him on those type of things, have been what? Cast out. Cast out of heaven. Like the rest of the angels. Let's call it something else.

Tucker, Candice, fucking Alex. Cast out. He cast him out. He cast him out via true social. They got cast out. They got cast out. Now they're in hell out of the favor of God. But he did this.

And now they're like, how could he? Nigel, how could you? You made him. do this. Well, this is the line. This is the line, right? They don't see themselves as worshiping him like a God. They're just respecting their president. They're just respecting the administration. They believe, even though they believe he will deliver them from everything, right? He will deliver them from, you know, whatever they're struggling with, whether it's money, whether it's health, whether it's their business, whatever may be, he will deliver them. He will deliver them.

them. They have that much faith. They believe in him, right? All the way up until, but you can't call him that. This is clearly the line. Even though, so this is the boundary, right? Because what's going to happen? They condemn him for all this, right? They're like, oh, that was just a little too much, right? He deletes it. He was just kidding. That's not what he meant. Matter of fact, he's already come out with an excuse about it. They will take this. They will believe in it. You guys are exaggerating. You guys, he, it does not believe his in God. He believes in God. He doesn't believe He doesn't believe He is a God. That's why he can tell you his favorite Bible verse.

That's why when he holds the Bible for a photo op, he holds it upright instead of upside down. Because he doesn't believe he is a God. He believes in God. He was just kidding. He was just kidding. And as quickly as that went down, they will forget this happen. This is what Trump had to say. Mr. President, did you post that picture of yourself depicted as Jesus Christ?

Well, it wasn't a depiction. It was me. I did first. and I thought it was me as a doctor and had to do with Red Cross as a Red Cross worker there which we support Let me look at the picture again Only the fake news could come up with that one

So there's no reason to look at the picture again I got to look at the picture again There's no reason to look at the You know what happened, see? Like there's no reason to look at the picture You know what happened Cut that shit off There's no there's no reason to look at the picture again

Like you know what happened What the fuck is right above his head? What's that? So they put a demon in there. It's a demon. No, the original picture has no demon. Oh, okay. Well, no, no, no.

But they put a demon. They took that picture and there's a, for some reason, Trump put a demon in there. There's a demon. So how do you know this isn't the original one? Because on Twitter, it was reported that this was posted by some guy named Nick something. Trump reposted it, but it looks like when the White House reposed it, that they put a demon in there. Why would they do that?

I do not know. That's all I keep looking at because I'm, let me look at the picture. So, so. I apologize. Yeah. So he. That's too far. I had to look at the picture because I had to understand how he's reasoning the Red Cross.

Because I, first off, he's that I thought it was me being depicted as a doctor. You're not a doctor. So that, so that, that's problem number one. Two, what doctor dresses like this? That's Jesus. Of course. Dr. Jesus. Of course.

What doctor wears the white. I don't even know what. you call this cloak with the red over it. And what is in the hand that's the light? Is that medicine? Is that a vaccine? Oh, you know what that is?

What? It's ivermectin. That's the, that's what he's putting the iver. The ivermectin is the light. He's putting the ivermectin on that guy right there. Yeah. That guy's Joe Roman.

And you know why this will resonate? Because, you know, Trump said he's healing, right? Look who he's healing. Who's he healing? Ain't none of us in it. All whites. All whites. All whites.

All whites. That's funny. This is his. You know, this reminds me of a story from Baton Rouge about the line. Okay. This could be the moment for them that this happened to Baton Rouge. I have ever told you a story about Leroy? I never told you the story?

So I'm not going to name the other person in this. But there was a notorious story in Baton Rouge. Okay. There was a guy in Baton Rouge that in Gardier was like our gay guy. Okay. Okay. But there was only one. Well, there were many gay guys, but there was one guy who had the courage to be out in 1995.

And I'm not going to bullshit you. This was one of the coolest niggas in the world, man. I'm not believe it. I'm just saying, like, he was legitimately, he could dance, he could fight, he could hoop, he could do all. It was like confusing to a lot of niggas in the neighborhood because we had an idea of what a gay man was. and he just thwarted that idea. Shout out to him. Because he'll beat your motherfucking ass.

He'll fuck you over in basketball. In the parties, he was dancing. Everybody was like, he was like, and so people would just be like, it would be, even in that, sometimes you would see niggas, niggas be, man, that nigger cool, man, that nigger cool. And like, guys from other areas of town

be like, hey, that dude is blah, blah, blah. Be like, nah, that's cool, that's a nigga. Okay. So something happened one day. In the bathroom, that guy gave him, another guy a blowjob. And they were caught in the bathroom.

They were caught in the bathroom. Now, the guy I'm talking about, who was the giver of the blowjob, was out and gay. So this is not a big deal for him. He does. You get blow jobs. It's the thing. Whatever. Come on. Everybody have a blowjob here, blowjob.

They whatever. Whatever happens. The other guy, though, was receiving the blowjob. I don't remember being in school. Okay. We're in school and we're talking. And I'm talking to him, I'm like, yeah, you're gay. And he goes, what?

I'm like, you had gay sex. You had sex with a guy. And he was like, shit, a mouth is a mouth. I was like, that might be the case. But the mouth that you were with was on a guy. I'm not trying to like, I wasn't trying to get at him. I was just saying, hey, I was trying to. You just said, hey, you're gay.

He had sex with a man. Okay, but why did you walk up to him and say? say that. That's not what happened. We were in the class after they had all blown over and we were talking about it. Okay, I'm glad you had the context. I'm glad you're, but you all see what I'm saying, right? I'm so glad I said that because you made it

seem like you just walked up and was like, hey. No, no, no, no, we were in class and we were talking about it and he was basically making it. He was basically saying, a mouth was a mouth. Now look, I'm 15 at this time. I'm not like in any way evolved. I'm like going, no, like, I'm trying to make him say, you had a same

sex encounter. You're fluid. you're gay, you're whatever, and the whole deal. I remember in that situation, in that thing, watching him come to terms with the fact that he had actually had sex with a guy. He didn't look at it as having sex with a guy. But he had had sex with a guy. And I wasn't like being mean about it. I wasn't being anything.

I just in my mind, my analytical, logical mind couldn't see how he didn't get the fact that he had had sex with a guy. Like, I was like, you know, you had sex with a guy. Like, you did some gay shit. You're gay. Right? Like, whatever. Maybe that's too.

Maybe that wasn't quite evolved with me. You've explained it. But I'm saying all this to say that like, this reminds me of this Trump shit. This reminds him having a realization right there. He was like, he wasn't going to fight the guy because the guy would beat his motherfucking ass. Okay. This nigga had hands like crazy. We'll beat his motherfucking ass.

But I just remember. I just remember. remember having this conversation and watching him realize that he got up to the line and then he crossed it. This is what happened with the Trump thing. This was the blowjob in the bathroom line where they got up to the line, not realizing it and then went over it. What a time.

What a time in Baton Rouge at that time. Do you know, it was like it was just such an interesting time to be in. in Gardeer to be around, to watch people, to watch out. Because a lot of niggas was going to jail. Mm-hmm. And then they would go to jail and they would do stuff in jail and they would come home and we hadn't done any of this stuff. So we would be like, we weren't experienced in this way.

Yeah. And so we would be, they would say stuff about stuff and we'd be like, oh, okay. Well, for adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Trimphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject trumphia, proper training is required. Tramphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease

and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business, fast, reliable, internet means everything for your business and even this podcast. That's why I trust Spectrum

Business to keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. I didn't know that that was permitted, you know, whatever you do. Anyway, they reminded me in that story. Gucci Main is finally spoken on the situation with him and Poochai C, Donnie? Yeah, this is a week after the report that he was allegedly kidnapped, held at gunpoint, and robbed by Pushaistee, Gucci, Maine, responded with a new track called Crash Dummy, produced by Zaytobin. You guys listen to it?

And thoughts. I love Zatovan. You like Zaytovin? Yeah. I like the track. I like the track. Yeah. You like it?

I don't know if it's to be light. Okay. What is it to be consumed so you understand where he's coming from, what his position is? I don't know that Gucci's going to do very many interviews on this. So this is, yeah, this is his, he o'ave. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I did, when we talked about this at first, did you say, you said that you thought Gucci wouldn't testify or really be a part of what was. what was going on.

I don't know if I said that. I said it would be interested if he, it would be interesting if he did. I mean, from, and so when you listen to this disc track, crash dummy, don't you feel like he will?

Well, because. The reading that I've done, he wrote a statement. So he's cooperating with law enforcement. There's interviews with the FBI that are upcoming.

And it seems to me that the FBI thinks that Gucci is going to be cooperative in those, in those interviews as well. Well, according to the reporting, I read, he was interviewed by the police. He talked to the police. One of his security, apparently, unbeknownst to the alleged assailants in this case, was police. And when the police got there, Gucci ended up talking to.

So that's what the reporting says. I mean, I feel like this happened back in January. It came out this month or maybe end of March. I don't know. Once it came out later, I feel like he was already cooperating. Like, I feel like he was already a part of it. I feel like they were able to have these indictments against the people that are alleged to be involved because he was cooperating. And the fact that he's putting out this distract now, he's all but saying, like, yeah, without calling it by name.

He does not say his name, but he is referencing exactly what was alleged to have happened in Dallas with the robbery and kidnapping. So it seems to me, Gutsu Mane is fully on board. Yeah, yeah, I mean, and good for him. And even saying, and you're still signed to me. Yeah, he's the victim of a crime. You did all that, and you're still signed to me. Hip hop has responded. Well, not all of hip hop.

Some people in hip hop have responded. It's interesting in the way the response has been on this. Is it or is it predictable? Finesse two times responded. Finesse two times responded. Play a little about what he had to say. Anyway, why I was so with Gucci Mind, man? ain't Gucci walk mine

I ain't feeling alive I ain't feeling like bro I ain't feeling like bro I ain't feel to see her in life bro I'm hurt by this I'm I'm gonna be stuck by this

I don't realize stuff about that he realized the whole culture you realize hurt my feelings fool you realize hurt my feelings fool

you're a grown-in-a-man and you got a whole lot of money. The fuck you worry about a churning the ring and shit for her. I know why shites der Robb you if he did. Because he didn't think you were going to tell on him, fool. He thought you were screeed like I did. He didn't think you were going to put the police on him, fool. You're a green-eyed, n'u' walk.

I'm sick of the excuses. What excuses? I feel like that's been a theme of the podcast today, right? We talk about Africa Bombata, and we see people try to reason or excuse what he did in the name of something else. We talk about Trump and his cult following. Trump called himself Jesus and then basically took it down, not making an excuse, it was this. Eric Swalwell, his attorney, trying to excuse certain things through, oh, it's not this, it's because they want this to happen or they want you to see this. I'm tired of it. I'm tired of people. Why can't we just say hold people accountable for what we did? Why are we making excuses? It is the excuses that we keep make, which is why this behavior continues to happen, because you try to ignore it, you try to look past it, you try to reason it for whatever it may be. Why can't people just be held accountable for what they do? Or why can't you just let things play out as they should to determine where fault may land? I am tired of people excusing.

it, of there being this code or this playbook for this, of this is the way things have to be in order for you to feel better about someone, feel good about who it is that you support, or who you have revered. I'm sick of it. That's literally been the theme in this podcast. I'm also not listening to anybody who says that they eat the noodles with no package. Do you know why I respect street nitties, raised around a lot of them?

Everybody in the family was a streetnaker besides that, everyone. I was raised by legitimately the only non-street nigger in my entire family. And he, in ways, could be viewed and looked at as sort of a street nigger. Because there's this weird intersection between street niggas and country niggers that is almost the same thing. Because you could be like that lived by the way of the gun that would not talk to the police in any way, shape, or form wouldn't talk to the police

in no way, right? Was wary of the police. I think a lot of people in the community where I'm from are wary of the police. I think not talking to the police for some people is this omerta that exists from a cold or a sense of morality

and for other people it comes from a genuine distrust of law enforcement, the law enforcement that preys on their communities. They just don't, they want to keep the police out of things in hopes that we can deal with them because involving law enforcement normally makes everything worse. But I was literally raised by the only non-street-nigots. Uncle David, Uncle Mark, Uncle Ray,

like all of these guys, what you would consider straight up street nags. The reason why I respect street niggers is because I realize, we were talking about earlier, I realize it's a religion. And I respect other people's religions whether or not I agree with those religions or not. The only time I don't respect other people's religions,

is if I feel like those religions or belief structures or systems are detrimental to either me or people who I care about. When you hear Finesse talk about Gucci, Gucci is now a heretic to him. Gucci hasn't just rejected like a code. He's rejected legitimately the orienting principle of this guy's life. And this orienting principle has been like commodified to a degree by hip hop. Now you hear niggas that are YouTube or is

and stuff like that, talking about this ain't street, talk about this snitch, talk about all of this stuff. And it's like the cat's completely out of the bag now. But like, for all of the time that Gucci made his public persona, made his public, Gucci has a song where he's like, my best friend wrote a statement on me. Like part of the mystification of the streets is that there's a morality to this that exists.

amongst these guys. When you said the word morality earlier, it dinged with me because what we're talking about is actually dueling moralities. Everyone thinks that they're moral. Everybody in the situation thinks that they're moral. Like we would look at it as regular non-street people as the moral thing to do is to like in a situation like this,

cooperate with law enforcement or report the crime. Something happened to you. Justice is for the harmony of society. right, not for revenge or get back. So even though the police are all fucked up and we get that and we understand that, we understand what comes with that. Like you can't have people running around

who would resolve business disputes with the gun. That does not make for a polite society. That doesn't make for a society that we can all trust. So we do what we got to do, even if we hold our nose while we do it. The morality that he's talking about is a morality that says,

You never involve law enforcement in a dispute. The dispute is resolved through either might or cunning. And, you know, some of these things are handed down from the mafia and the way that the mafia was able to, you know, sort of construct rules of streets and their organization and all of that stuff to insulate them from regular society so that they could have their own economy that existed so that they can have their own

set of morals and codes existed where like a guy crosses you, you got to kill that guy, all of that stuff. What's interesting now is what's happening is this stuff is blending for many reasons. Number one, it's blending because it's being made so consumable on the internet. Everybody is discussing this type of shit.

People that, you know, in the neighborhood when stuff like this would happen, you would talk about it, but like, you wouldn't like talk about it. There was nobody with a microphone at the end of the body. block that just had a conversation about it so everyone could hear about it right um so that's one thing and another thing is these guys are getting older and when these guys get older the religion of the

streets i'm sorry it fucking looks crazy if you like 57 years old it just does i mean Gucci not 57 but the religion of the streets that's a young man's game it looks crazy It looks crazy if you 57 years old, if you got kids in college, if you got a mortgage, if you got all of that stuff. And to all of my street niggas out there that's going to hear this and be, I'm sorry, but the older you get, the crazier that fucking shit looks. And people in the past did not get a chance to see that. They didn't get a chance to necessarily see somebody who was 46, 47, 48, 51, 51, 52, 53, 54. who couldn't fucking lead the streets alone. They saw it in their family sometimes,

but they didn't get a chance to see that. And when people see that, they honestly do not want to be that. They don't. They don't want to be that. They want to be Jay-Z, someone who had a street education that then took that education

and then turned it in something else. They want to be nice. They want to be people who don't, like, turn their nose up at what made them, but then get to a point to where they're, They're not, they don't have to exact revenge for personal slights and situations like that. Yeah.

And so, you know, it'll be interesting to see, I said this before, Gucci, who is legitimately one of the architects of just an incredible street ministry, which is, you know, trap. You know what I'm saying? Like a, he's an architect of one of the most enduring street ministries that has a kind of surface in American culture, trap music, Gucci is on the Mount Rushmore that. It'd be interesting to see how people respond to the fact

that he obviously don't give a fuck about that shit no more. Well, like, yeah, like Gucci has a history of legal issues, right? So, is it even that he doesn't give a fuck about it or maybe that he

has learned that what's the benefit in all of that? And I guess that's what I would ask, like a finesse. It's okay he's younger you're talking about you making the excuse for him he doesn't know any better but what benefit if you if you love this goes back to like the community when we're talking about africa bombada if we're talking about culture if we're talking about community it's talking about a love that you have for the people that exist inside of it you want to see them thrive you want to see them live you want to see them be if you protect a mentality like this what is the benefit for it

So when I see a finesse say like, he don't know any better, he's 26, well, maybe he should, right? And I get like you said, we come from different worlds, you know, so I get that I don't subscribe to the religion to use your words that they might subscribe to. But it's like, what really, like ask yourself that question. How does this benefit somebody who just got out of prison to do this? How does it benefit to protect him or Gucci to turn the other way? or does it allow Apushaisi to keep doing this

and think that you will continue to be to get away with this so you can continue down this road this road is going to lead to a bad place so if we want to protect our people if we want to see them thrive then we got to learn that this isn't the way to do it right I'm not I know you're not saying that I'm not in any way disagreeing but I'm saying let me give you an example of something you you did you

in fights in high school I've been in a couple not in high school High school college. You told me about the fight that happened. Okay. Okay. Okay. So imagine this. So, you know, for whatever reason, there were a couple of times where you just,

you knew what no way around it, you was going to be in this. You had to go through it. You had to do it. You had to fight. Sometimes the fights are spontaneous. Basketball court, never forget, basketball court, like we play. Then it goes, bitch. Oh, boy, what?

Oh, fuck. And he laughed. I was like, well, let's not, now we have to fight. It's not. Like we was in a place It was in Mayfair It was a place And a nigga we didn't know each other

They called him a bitch And I was like he's a fight I was like hey it makes no sense That he's gonna fight you So just like let's just have the fight So have the fight We can get back to the game Because it's gonna

We're about to fight This nigga is not the type of nigga To turn anything down He never turned anything down In life he's about to fight you cool But sometimes like you know right Somebody saying shit man I'm gonna catch this nigga van

I'm gonna catch this nigga I'm gonna catch this nigga whoever It's one time Like I knew I was gonna have a fight The whole day Mid school blah blah blah I know after football practice there's going to be a fight.

Me and this guy, we're going at it the way that it goes. He knows it too. There's an understood, like, is there's a bargain or it's almost like a understanding,

whatever it is. There's a, we know that we're going to fight. And we know that we're going to go somewhere to fight where nobody can see us. Right? We're not going to fight in the middle of the school. We're not going to fight at third period

We're not going to fight at lunch And nobody trying to get suspended We want to fight We still want to play All of that stuff We're going to fight We're going to go somewhere We're going to handle this

We're going to come back out If he brings the principal with him Or if he brings a coach with him And he looks at me and goes Van has been threatening me all day long And now we're here and we're about to fight He's more than a coward It's not

If he back down when we got to fight niggas would be like you're a ho. Like, niggas, you're a hoe. You're like, and until you prove you not a hoe, sometimes you have to go and escalate to prove that you wasn't a hoe. But we didn't see any niggas get hold before. But see if you go grab somebody and come and goes, he's there.

Don't have to be the police. You're more than a coward. Now, people might not even fucking talk to you anymore. Now, you're way outside of the thing. Because it, this doesn't make any sense. It makes sense when you're 15. It doesn't make sense when you're 45. might make sense when you're 25, but it doesn't make sense when you're 55. It doesn't make sense to me

when you're 35. To me, it doesn't make sense the moment you realize that you live a longer, healthier, happier life with grandchildren, with, with bounty, with physical health, with mental health, leaving that alone. The moment you realize that, it doesn't make any sense to do it anymore. The question is, when do you realize it? Because it is difficult, really difficult. to realize it if you think it's keeping you safe. If you think the fact that nobody will rat on you, if you think the gun, if you think the hiding out,

if you think all of these things actually in some way keep you safe, it's difficult to divorce away from them. Because I'm telling you, like, niggas in these neighborhoods, they might not be scared at each other. They're scared on a white man. Like, that is actually like turning the key and unlocking the demon and bringing it.

they might not be scared of each other. You hear it in the songs. Like, hey, you see the police run. Like, run. Get the fuck out the way of the police. So a lot of times, I understand the threshold that they have to cross to get that all of that street shit is not the way to go about it. But God damn, the systems that are so sturdy in these places and the cultural reinforcement that they get. A lot of people get, it's, it's, it's solid, man.

It's like, it's solid. And whereas I know that it doesn't make any sense, it's not that I have a soft spot for it. It's just like, Baton Rouge was so fucked up. You get it. Like, it's not like you, to me, all it ever did was ruin lives. Like, some of the most brilliant, beautiful, talented brothers that I didn't know.

I just got to a point nigger started dying and I was like, yo, that can't be for me. Like if I'm a hole, I'm a hole. I just, I can't do that. Like, I don't want to, if I have to go somewhere where that's going to happen,

I'm not into it. I just can't. And I'll, I'll go to spaceport. I used to go to spaceport to play video game. Cortana Mall. Shout out to all my niggas at spaceport. Irvin, Kevin,

Trey. Playing Marvel versus Capcom too. And we had a fight there. We had a rival At what age? Nigger, this is like We're in our 20s at this point Oh man

Oh right There was a space port Asked if y'all don't believe me No we do Asked Trey Charles got beat up Outside of Spaceport This must have been

2001 or two Trey and Charles had a beef This is over Marmal versus Capcom 2 Charles They were supposed to fight At Spaceport Cortana Mall

And Charles came He had a Lots of Chinese food. And Trey and Charles face off and Trey's nigger just went. Hit Charles Chinese food everywhere. Fight at Spacport over the game. Fight them. Spaceport.

Okay. Cortana Mall, Baton Rouge. You ever been? No. Have it. It's the first time you've mentioned Cortana Mall. Spaceport, Cortanamo. Well, that's what the whole thing is gone.

Well, Spaceport was an arcade that existed inside of Cortanamo. Okay. And it had all the games. We used to have lock-ins there. I was like maybe like 22. We'd stay there all night long. You were going to lock-ins at 22? They expire after high school.

That's not true. Who was hosting it? So Spaceport would have the lock-ins. Okay? We will have a lock-in. The arcade would host their own lock-ins? Yes. We would stay up.

We would play video games at the lock-in all night long, play Marlverse Capcom 2. We'll play Dance Dance Revolution. Yes. I'm familiar with that one. We play Marvel versus Capcom, too. We played Dance Dance Revolution. But really it was Marble for Scabcon 2.

And you know what we did at the lock-ins? Show me. Give us a little taste of Dance, Dance Revolution. I never played Dance Revolution. Richard Bittley, not Richard Bentley Smith. Richard Brumley from McKinley High, White Boy, he was the best at Dance. I never played it.

The only game I played was Marvel versus Capcom 2. I might have been 21. I might have been 20, 21, 20. Grow, you could drink. You should not. No, that's not a lock-ins. What else you're going to do in Baton Rouge? We did go do it.

We drank at the lockings. Cortana's tore down now, but we drank at the lockings, but they had, you know what else we would have? We would have Dragon Ball Z. We take over the TVs that they had in Cortana, and we put Dragon Ball Z up there. We had the Freeza saga up there. We watched the Freeza saga, and then we watched Majin Boo. We watched Dragon Ball Z at the lock-ins at night while we played the game.

When I tell you, this is so funny, Gino used to, the player-proof crew was like, embarrassed about this area in my life. The player-proof crew. Gino one time pulled me to the side. Gino was like, hey, nigga, look. About this fucking arcade, bro. The fuck is up with this arcade. You can't get no money at the arcade.

Ain't no bitches at the arcade. Why you all is hanging out at the arcade? I love the fucking video game. Yeah, he shouldn't have done that. But the line? What line? You crossed the lock-in was the line. What?

The lock-in at 22. there's nothing wrong with the arcade but the lock-in was where you just went a little too far so the lock-in is the line I can get that I can understand at 22 at 22 I had been to a locket since I was like 14 okay well that's you

and we had a love for the game I traveled around for the game I went to the Texas showdown in Houston actually I was actually at one point I took third in the Marvel versus Capcom tournament in Louisiana it was I was the basically almost, I got third in that tournament.

That doesn't really mean that I was the third best player, but I got third in the tournament. Who do you use? I use, so there's a bunch of different teams I would use. Thank you for that question. So this is why niggas and street niggas. So see what I'm saying? Because let me tell you why.

We're getting to the bottom of this. I said there was a line. No, no, no, no. The line was the lock-in. Nobody cares that you went to the arcade. The reason why niggas and street niggas, because Donnie, that laugh? Donnie.

Donnie, hold on for a second. Donnie, that laugh, though, that laugh is fucked up. That laugh is why niggas are street niggas. Don't he thought his bike was off. Donnie thought, like, you see what I'm saying? That laugh is why niggas turned to the streets, right? Because the reality of the situation is if a niggil was riding around, Baton Rouge and a Corvette, had dope, had money, had holes, had all of this shit,

that shit would have been fly. Nigger, a lock in, Donnie laughs. Unfair. The lock in, it's crazy. It's the age. at the lock-in because I'm wondering how old are the other people who are locked in with this 22-year-old man? They're the same age, nigger. Don't play with me.

Like, we had, Kevin was older than me. So, Kevin was like 25. Kevin was older than me. Irvin and Trey were a little younger. The crew was me, Irvin, Trey. Charles was in the crew at first, but then Charles became our enemy. But, like, Charles was the best player in the entire thing, Irvin. And then Dakota.

Shout out to Dakota. Dakota. Demetrius and Dakota, Demetrius, Dakota, this was a spaceport a lot familiar. That's what Gino named us. You got to know the owner? Yeah.

Yeah, we knew the owners. We knew the owners of the spaceport. We knew the nigger named Reggie. He ran the spaceport. By the night. By the way, my team, so we can move on, Bernard. My team was either a Magneto Cable Storm.

Sometimes I would go Magneto Cable. Cable Sialock. Sometimes I'll go Magneto Storm Sidelock. Every team had Magneto. Some teams featured Cable. Sittano became a character that were people used after the time. But yeah, like Magneto and Storm, I'm a rushdown player. I like to do like brilliant combos and stuff like that. So is all boys lock him. Like what the fuck you think? Yeah. It's like, what nobody, wasn't no girls and there was one girl in there. Well, like normally the lock ins are co-ed. But when you started describing like what was on the TV and played, I'm like, okay, like this was just like, for like the boy, the gamers, the man gamers. Now, okay, we can move off this now because this, y'all, it's funny. Because y'all dissed the lock-in, but it kept me off,

these niggas could have been on the streets, but that's cool. It's Baton Rouge. It's Baton Rouge, right? It's the Locking. It's Baton Rouge, right? It's Baddn-Rooge. Nobody cares you were at. The Spaceboard.

So, like, Space Port. It's Space Port is what it's called. At the Cortana Mall. At the Cortana Mall. in Baton Rouge, Cortana Mall, space, rest and peace. So last thing I'll say is when we went out of town,

because we did go out of town as a crew, we went out of town, we went to New Orleans to play tournaments, we went to Houston to play tournaments, we did go out of town. We definitely talked to girls. We got at women in New Orleans.

I remember this one girl from New Orleans was like, she looked at us and she went, y'all niggas too cute to be some game heads. I got to go. Y'all need to stop this. I put my whole team on Keynes. had never had canes before. The people from New Orleans had never had canes.

Ricky used to use Blackheart. Like, whatever. Nice. But y'all show me something, though. Y'all show me why niggas turned to the streets with the way that y'all reacted. It's a line. Surprise at you, J. No, because I was, look, I'm a gamer too, but I'd be on Monopoly, so I'd be on the board games.

Oh, that's not no gamer? Yes, it is. They have conventions and everything. I have a friend who's, like, deep into it. Those are gamers. That's straight. I'm not dissing what nobody else is into and stuff like that. I did one time diss Steve because Steve was larping.

He was a larper. He's just like, it's funny to me. But yeah, you know, whatever, man. Shout out to my niggas from Spaceport. Like, they was going to come out here. They actually, you know what? We're still in a group text right now. They're coming out here, man.

They do that at the park every weekend by my house. Larp? Oh, that's a thing for real. Yeah, they larp around. I love it. I love to watch them. I saw, and this is one of my favorite things to watch, if anyone is ever at Verdugo Park in Burbank on a Sunday,

there's a sore fighting class. So they do something similar, but I know where you're talking about too. These niggas in this sore fighting class are the funniest people in L.A. It's just funny. They train it to be John Snow. Like they're out there with broadsword, wouldn't broadsores learning how to soar fight. And I would just love to watch it.

Yeah. And they come. dressed up or do you know they come to dress up like a little armor all kinds of shit um all right Donnie before we get out of here I want to talk about

transformation church yeah let's talk about it that's Mike Todd's church in Tulsa Oklahoma on Easter Sunday they had a sermon and at this sermon this happened

I love it And you should I don't get the fucking issue here What's the issue here? I love it It would have been different if they took it Everything and I loved the response From this brother Roosevelt Stewart

He responded And I legitimately had come up with what I thought I cannot say it better what he said it. Donnie, play Roosevelt Stewart. What up y'all, it's Roosevelt. I've been watching a lot of the responses. Some of them have been like, yeah, let's go. And some of them are like, why would you do that? So I want to get some context on the controversy.

The Bible declares in Psalms that the earth is the Lord's and the fullness there is. So there's literally nothing in this earth that cannot be used to give the glory to God. And that is what I truly believe. So anytime that we hear something secular, it is only barring what God has already placed into the earth. and I'm just simply reusing it and repurposing it. Man, if only there was a song that kind of aligned was like redeeming everything that the enemy took and God making it good again.

You know what? Actually, I wrote a song called Redeemed with me out on April 17th. I honestly struggle to understand the backlash from the Christian community here about this. Well, I actually don't struggle for it. I know why. I'll talk about it later.

Why? Well, because of a general mistrust in the church. Explain. So, like, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, right? There's nothing wrong with it. Like, they took a song, and they actually cleverly flipped the song, and then they made something catch-down. And then they transitioned in something beautiful.

You know, I've been to Transformation Church a couple of times. Okay. They have an amazing music ministry. The reverse has happened all the time, right? We've seen musical stylings and musical traditions taken out of the church and using secular music, right? Yeah. And because a lot of the music and a lot of the way that we worship, the music when you want to stir people, you take traditions that are used to stir people.

You put them in your music. But the general distrust in the church that has arisen comes from people's questioning on the utility of the church. We've talked about this before. And whether or not something like that is for the glory of God or whether or not it's for the glory of the people on that stage. Now, once again, I exist in charity with everyone. I have no reason to believe that that man right there is not saying what he actually truly means in his heart. He is not in any way condemning anyone. When Mike Todd did this thing where he told me I can't play the game, I'm going to have a problem with him.

Right now I'm playing the game. Dodgers are 27 and 3. Freddie Freeman, Max Muncie. All my guys are in the top five and slugging. I'm not going to stop playing the game. I'll play the game when I get home right now. I'm going to replay the game. So if you're being sending in criticism of somebody's life with something as innocuous is playing video games to me, like that was going to piss me off.

But this seemed to be joyous. It was clever. And I didn't understand it. But I think it more exists in the fact that there's just this general distrust of the church that is, it's almost been mainstreamed that didn't exist when I was growing up. Yeah. Well, we also didn't have social media in the way that we do now. I think you're right on that end, one. And I think the Drusky skit now has emboldened people to find moments like this to be able to say,

oh, look, see, Drusky was right or see what they did without actually paying attention to what they do. They've been doing this. This music ministry has done this for years where they have turned songs that are familiar with secular music and turned it into something that was gospel. but it's also not that distant from like Kirk Franklin. No, he was creating his own songs, but the way that he was singing them and the way that we were dancing,

it was like a whole movement to the point where they started playing those songs on the radio. And if you're trying to bring people in or, you know, like spread the word as the Bible says, then why can't you take a song like this and turn it into something that's still, that's purposeful, that uses your message and is catchy? And instead of having people say fiend,

you got people saying, king. I don't see the problem with that. But I think the other end of that are the traditionalists that think that church has to be one way because that's the way that they were taught or that's the way that they grew up in it. And anything that differs from that is wrong. I think people try to hold on to this certain playbook when it comes to how you're supposed to worship, how you're supposed to preach, and anything that veers away from that is wrong. I think you're getting a lot of that too. Yeah, I always wonder about those people though, because when I go into some of these churches, I see microphones, I see electric guitars, see all kinds of things that reflect changes in

technology and cultural understanding, right? I see different forms of music, different types of music. I see music that would not have been in favor in 1934. I don't see a ton of banjos and all kinds of different shit like that. I see them embracing new cultural traditions, new cultural technologies. And the reality is that when you have hip hop music or music that has, you a specific drum pattern to it, that is something that is new. And if you cleanse the music, I guess if you want to use that term, of anything that would be displeasing to God and use it to worship God, I would think that that would be embraced by all people.

I think a lot of this criticism is coming from people outside of the church who are looking at the church and think that this indicates. a lack of seriousness in the church, right? The question is what's beneath that, like I said. What's beneath that is a deep questioning that we are having with the church. I talked to a guy named Jerome Gay for a long time. Me and him were on the phone for like two hours, like, because he was, did something where he was talking about his views on homosexuality.

He was responding to Cam on stage being on our podcast. Now, I desperately want to have a contemporary church conversation on the pot, particularly around the area of sexuality. Now, what I wouldn't want to do is have somebody who was queer up here and subject them to debasing, dehumanizing rhetoric coming from someone who tells them that their life is an affront to God, that who they are is an affront to God, right? I don't want to do that. But I do want to, if we can, and me and Jerome talked about it, Jared Hill gave me some people that perhaps could do this.

If we can, I would like to have a deeper conversation about what people expect from the church. Like what really people expect from the church? Even if you are not religious, is there an expectation of the black church something that still has so much reverence in our community? Is there an expectation there that you have? And like, what's fair to expect? I'll be into it. Because sometimes maybe I'm unfair. Maybe I'm unfair with the church.

You might be. Sometimes maybe I hold the church to a standard that's not, it's not, it doesn't make any sense. Who knows? Yeah, I would be interested in that conversation. But I think we all do in certain ways, maybe hold an unrealistic expectation. I think I was true unfairly today. Oh. You can take that away.

You can take a, well, we cannot talk. You can walk away with that if you want to. Nobody treated you unfairly. It was actually a very logical question because never in my wildest dreams that I think that you would be a full-grown adult participating in what most of us grew up doing in elementary and junior high.

Maybe it wasn't a lock-in. Maybe y'all just stayed overnight and played games so y'all could get great at it so you could go on these tours and win in these tournaments. Maybe that's how you should phrase it. What's interesting is that you think patronizing me would be the way to kind of like...

I looked at it as understanding. No, it's trying to understand. It's not what happened at all. It was a lock-in because that's what we called it. Because it was definitely a lock-in and we were excited about it. We would go and we would get food. We'll hang out, drinks, all kinds of stuff.

They had nachos that you could buy. Yeah, y'all had to open the bar. We did. We did drink because we were grown. We had some drink. You had a little drink drink that's in there. I would take a pineapple phantom, which I love you like a pineapple phantom.

I've never had a pineapple fan. I got one in the motherfucking refridge right now, daddy. Only orange, red. That's what I'm talking about. See, that's the fucking shit that I'm talking about when I'm talking about Rache. Talking about the fact that every once in a while, people say that Rache is a little boozy and stuff, but then Rache does the nigger as shit.

That fana is not red. That is a strawberry fana. But then Rache's mind is red because that's a real, We're cheering. On the other side of this goddamn table, I'm sorry to you. She said orange, but she said red. We call it orange because orange is both a color and a flavor, and it's a fucking fruit.

But Rate said red because that's a nigger. She was sneaking out going to Fuel City drinking a red phantom syrup at the end of it. What I'm talking about. But no, it's nothing wrong with a lock-in. And, you know, it's everyone, it's fine. Shout out to my niggas. But, you know, that's what y'all want. I want niggas to be in the streets.

I want them to do things that are wholesome. So we have to go. Before we get out of here, we want to plug a new book, a new book. I have it, you have it, started reading it. It's called Start With Yourself and it is by Emma Greed. It is actually out today. As you're listening to this podcast, it's described as a game-changing,

no BS guide for anyone that is seeking meaningful success on their own terms. If you are unfamiliar with who Emma Greed is, she is CEO and co-founder of the denim company Good. American and a founding partner of Skims. Big deal. And a co-founder of safely cleaning products. Very successful. I wear Good American.

I wear skims. I wear skims. You wear skims? Yeah. The skims makes these, the skims t-shirts are fire. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Really great.

So if you want to learn more about start with yourself, which is all about self-leadership, in addition to Immigreet, who she is, how she built all this success, and she did it on her own terms, Make sure you go get her book out today wherever you get your books. Absolutely. We are not getting to a story that is just starting to blow up in the Internet.

I want to mention it because we're going to talk more about it Thursday after I've had a chance to do a little research into it because this story is already being. More comes out. Yeah. Weaponized for the gender wars between black men and black women. There was unfortunately a tragedy that took place in Africa, a young woman who was. on a vacation with a guy, he was, your boyfriend, he wasn't a fiance. Yeah, he became her fiance on a vacation. Right, right.

She was found dead. People are saying the people, the authorities there say that she on alive herself. But, and there's a little bit behind it, there was apparently at some point, her and her boyfriend had to be separated. Her fiance had to be separated. They'd be put in two separate hotel rooms. That is what authorities there are saying. and then they found her unconscious later on and they're saying that she unalived herself.

She went on this trip with this guy who has she been seen for some time and people are saying that he is responsible for her death. Once again, authorities are not quite saying that yet but a lot of people are demanding answers to what happened to her. Her name is, we have it in here.

Ashley Robinson. Ashley Robinson is her name. But online she's known as Ashley Jeney. Ashley Jeney. So a lot of people are demanding answers. But apparently there, remember we had the story about the gentleman in Miami who was killed by his girlfriend. She was white. He was black.

And he had made all kinds of disparaging comments about black women. So a lot of people were saying, hey, this is kind of part of the horse. This is what you get. And now what's happening beyond the loss of the life of this young woman, which is insanely tragic. Exactly. Disgusting. That's being used as a cudgel between black man and black women. People are going back through her old tweets and talking about that. God, we just, it's just so desensitized to stuff. Somebody died. And instead of focusing on the fact that somebody died mysteriously, and there are questions surrounding that, surrounding that, and a family is grieving that and

trying to understand what happened to such a young life that's lost, we are moving past that. moving past death and trying to find understanding through social media. Like, it's just, we're just so desensitized. I mean, you're right. I mean, we'll get more into it as it comes out. And I know that this happened, like you said, with that murder a few years ago in Miami. But, like, we just, it's scary. It's just so scary to me that the conversation has moved past her death.

to this. And I'll say the same thing with him. Well, what I do have to remember, though, is how we covered his, because I think we covered it here. We'll look into that. We definitely,

no, we definitely talked about it. Yeah, I can't remember, like, how it was covered and, you know, how people look at it and stuff like that.

But I'm not interested in relitigating somebody's life after they're gone. What I am interested in is, is kind of getting to answers as to what happened to this young woman. as she was on this trip.

And now it doesn't look like there's going to be a way to get around that. People are not going to stop asking the question until our answers. Okay. Take the deep. Take the deep. Take the key. I'm Rachel and Lucy. I'm Rachel and Lucy.

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