Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Continuing the Fight for Voting Rights With Martin Luther King III and Talkin’ Hip Hop With Peter Rosenberg

Episode Date: August 6, 2021

In honor of the anniversary of the signing of the Voting Rights Act of 1965, Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay welcome human rights activist Martin Luther King III to discuss his father's legacy and the current assault on voting rights (15:42). Then we talk all things hip-hop with radio personality Peter Rosenberg (59:44), before discussing Andrew Cuomo's awkward attempts to defend himself (1:58:24), plus we try to figure out What the Whites Were Thinking (2:17:04). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guests: Martin Luther King III and Peter Rosenberg Producers: Donnie Beacham Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Higher Learning is on. It is I, Van Lathen, Jr. And it's me, Rachel Lynn Lindsay. Rachel Lynn Lindsay. The Lynn. Lynn, Lindsay.

People, people, people, people have been calling me that they're like, Lynn, Lindsay, we like it. I know, because it's good. You ever thought about going to Lynn? Just going to Lynn? Like, well, not, you know, just going by Lynn Lindsay, yes. Well, in college, yes.

I was going to enter college as Lynn Lindsay. And my cousin said that that was so stupid. She was my roommate. She was like, that's the dumbest thing. You're Rachel. And I was like, yeah, you're probably right. Lynn, Lindsay. And so I just went to Rachel, Big Rage.

But, Lynn, but, you know, the people like it. They like Lynn. They're both great names. They're both great names. But Lynn Lindsay is a, it's a, That's a $100 handle right there. That's something special. That's something special.

I have trademarked. Maybe you should trademark it. Trade market. Or maybe you get a show in a couple of years and it's the Lynn Lindsay show. Lynn Lindsay hosted the movie. The Lynn Lindsay show. That's dope. It's too late now.

People will be like, uh, it's Rachel. Maybe. All right. So we're going to start off right now. We're going to check back in with the baby. Oh, okay. Because since, since, our last podcast. First of all, the festivals

are just falling off. The baby. I know. It's like seven. I heard, I legitimately heard an estimate that the baby has lost between 10 and 15 million dollars. Easy. Easy. And it's not just from the festivals. It's from some other corporate gigs that he might have had,

some other, I heard from somebody, sponsorship. I heard from somebody who would know. And I, this is not something that I've personally verified, but that this has costed the baby between 10 $15 million. That's not shocking to me at all. When I add up all the things that he is lost because of this.

So between the festivals and the corporate stuff. But now it looks like there is a way for this to become a teaching moment for the baby. First of all, you saw that Miley Cyrus reached out to the baby and said, hey, check your DMs. She is a member of the LGBTQ plus community and doing better with it. And she says that she wants to take the time to educate the baby. talk to him, not cancel him, and throw him on the fire. But not just her. 11 national LGBTQ and HIV and AIDS organizations released an open letter to the baby,

and they requested a private meeting to discuss facts about the HIV and things that he can put into his music and his persona to bridge these two communities with him for the long term so that he can maybe undo some of the harm or maybe learn how you can be a more helpful ally. This is what they put in their letter. We heard your inaccurate and harmful comments at Rolling Loud, and we have read your Instagram apology. However, at a time when HIV continues to disproportionately impact black Americans and queer and transgender people of color, a dialogue is critical. We must address the miseducation about HIV expressed in your comments and the impact it has on various communities.

There are a litany of organizations that are here that were behind this letter. Glad is included in them. The Black AIDS Institute is included in them. So there are a bunch of them. What do you think the move is now for the baby? Well, first of all, I have to say I'm happy to see this because this is an example of what we should be doing. Right. Like we get on this podcast and we talk about what he said was wrong and it was and it is.

but it doesn't mean that that means he should be canceled completely. Everything should be, we should come to the table, have a conversation about it so people can be better because isn't the goal at the end of the day for all of us to be better as individuals. Is it? Is that the goal? Do we not want to be better?

I got to be honest with you. Sometimes I don't feel like people want people to be better. I feel like people's goal is to get rid of the bad people. No, no, no, no. you're talking about with cancel culture? Yeah, yeah. I'm just talking about in general, we all need to be like, when you talk about racism and sexism

and we're going to get into some of these topics about and with misogyny and all these things and when you're looking at what our leaders are doing in the Senate and in Congress, if we could be better as individuals and do right by people, if we could start there and accomplish that, we'd be better in general as a society. I guess I'm talking in a general way,

not just cancel culture. Right. But I'm saying this to say, I love what they're doing because I think it's setting a good example. And maybe we can turn things around when it comes to cancel culture. They are reaching out. They're doing it in a public way. The ball is in, to answer your question, though, the ball is into Baby's Court now. To my knowledge, I have not heard him respond to these organizations that have reached out to him, at least publicly.

He hasn't. I haven't heard of him saying anything publicly in regards to Miley Cyrus. But they are giving him an olive branch. And they're saying, we want to help you understand what you did and how you can learn and actually have the correct knowledge about the things that you were talking about. So if he is serious about his apologies, and I'd say that plural because he's apologized multiple times, if he's serious about it and he really wants to grow, as he said in his last apology, then they're throwing him a lifeline and he needs to grab onto it immediately. That's what needs to happen. because he has the opportunity if he learns from this and he really gets educated to use his platform to say the right things when it comes to HIV and AIDS and the LGBTQ plus community.

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flu like symptoms or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. Precurious situation for the baby. Really? Doesn't seem like it, but it is. Please explain.

So when the baby came out and said what he said, the reality of the situation is initially he wasn't apologetic. Multiple times. He doubled down and then he kind of softly doubled down. And even in his last apology, a lot of the apology itself, at least the top part of the apology, is about how he was treated and not what he actually said. All right. Now, I get that.

I actually understand that. That has been displayed by me on this very podcast. So I understand when people are saying something about you, how you can get defensive. It's very hard for human beings, especially sometimes my brothers, me and my brothers, to face off against things that we've done because we feel assailed all the time. So the more you feel attacked, the more you want to defend.

So you feel attacked the whole time. You feel attacked in the community sometimes. You feel it's violent there. You feel attacked by the cops. So the only thing you know how to do is defend yourself because it's defensive of yourself that keeps you alive. So his reaction to it, it was piss poor, as was mine, but I still understand where it comes from. But see, what happens is when you react like he reacts, that starts a tribe. That starts a tribe of people who are happy that the baby won't be bullied, that he won't be pushed around, that he won't be this, that he won't be that.

And a whole bunch of people who support that, even we saw some support come from people like Busy and T.I. and then you have all of the comment lurchers from people like that. He didn't do anything wrong. He didn't do that. See, the minute that you walk into a place and you sit down and you do the work that those organizations

and those people are asking you to do, those people, those people not have a problem. Those people say, okay, they buck broke the baby. They broke him. He has to go around. Remember when Nick said, what Nick said, Nick said what he said.

Nick Cannon, he made the remarks. people thought they were anti-Semitic they were and Nick at first double down the first thing Nick said the first thing Nick did was say hey we got this whole group of people together Viacom let me go and give me while and out Viacom said no and then Nick actually went and did the word to educate himself about what he was saying he met and talked with Jewish leaders and the people were like they broke Nick Cannon now nobody cares right while and out is coming back everything is cool But the baby, by not doing this at first, by resisting, he made himself into a martyr. And now he's going to actually have to choose between the people who are looking for him to do better and from a very large, silent and unsilent group of people who like the fact that he stood on what he stood on and who. who liked the fact that he said what he said in the first place. And I'm telling you, you'd have to have some of the conversations that I'm having right now. People are dreading the baby doing some of these public service announcements, talking to some of these groups.

He doesn't have to, though. That's the thing. And I have seen some of that. And maybe I just haven't seen enough of it. I don't think that there's this big group of people who are looking at him as a martyr because what he said was so, wrong. Rachel, it's weirder out there than you think it is. I've seen some of it.

So I know it's not, I know you're not like, I've seen some of it. But he doesn't have to be the face of this. That's not what he has to do. He could have these conversations privately. He could say, I didn't know any, and I think in his last apology, he didn't, he didn't know enough about it. He wasn't educated on it. And it doesn't excuse it, but he is telling you where he's.

he was coming from. So now they're telling you, they'll educate you. I don't think that that looks to the group who says on the other side, I don't think that means he's selling out. I don't think that means he's changing his stance. That means I said, I was ignorant in what I said. And I'm trying not to be. Sorry for the people who want to stay in an ignorant space.

Oh, no. Not you. Not you. I'm just saying, I know that's not you. I know you're talking about the other side of it. But like, you guys, this is not the person to make a martyr over this situation. It really isn't. I think this is clear as day that what he did was wrong.

You might not like the public's response to it. Fair enough. But don't try to put your hat on the fact that what happened to him is because he's a martyr. You know what? We don't like the public's response. How was they supposed to respond? I'm not, you know, I'm not with throwing people away forever. That's not my thing.

You know I don't think about that. I give also shout out to all. all the thought words out there, you know, I give grace to teenagers. So, but, but you guys were they mad at you for that? Yeah, they were. They don't like that. They don't like that. They're like, yeah, you stole a candy at 15.

Fuck it. To the gulac. Um, but, but, but, uh, but no. But what I am saying is that. I, I, I'm forgiving. I am forgiving grace to people. I am for making sure that, you know, people don't have to wear the worst moments of their lives for the rest of their lives. I think all of us would be looking at. I agree. I am for that.

But in the moment, I imagine like Justin Timberlake being on stage and being like, hey, if you didn't kiss a black guy or in the parking lot, put your camera up and making it seem like kissing a black dude was wrong or kissing a black girl was wrong or something like that. Like what the fuck the reaction was going to be the reaction? He diss them. And so it's like I understand what everybody's saying and I'm going to say things to fuck up. Of course I will.

I've done it before and I'll do it again. Same. But you can tell somebody how to react to you dissing the fuck out of them during your moment on the stage in front of thousands of people in the audience and the entire world on the internet, of course they're going to be mad. They walking around trying to live in a society where they might be infected with HIV and AIDS, where they have people who they know that have HIV and AIDS. They want to destigmatize it so they can be normal.

They want their lifestyle and their orientation and who they are destigmatized. They want all of those things desigmatized. And when you do that, you make it worse. And playing into a stereotype that they've tried to like completely take away since it's inception. Right. Right. Like that has been attributed

to that community since the inception of HIV AIDS. Right. And to me, and I said this on my Instagram, to me, don't backflip to excuse

the bad behavior because that's going to stunt the growth. Because sometimes, remember when I told you the story about throwing the sand on the lady? I'll never forget. Remember, I thought you were an adult?

Right. Right. But do you know as a kid, I knew it was wrong to throw sand on the lady? lady but I didn't know how wrong until god rest his soul Terry lathen whooped my ass and now I know throwing sand on a random stranger is a big fucking deal

and not only did I know it such an image in my head of me throwing sand on the lady or the way throwing sand on it but that had to happen so people are talking about the response sure they've been stern with the baby but they tired of getting their asses kicked and talk shit about I don't fucking blame Can I ask you this The fact that he doubled down

Don't you think or I should say that's leading Do you think that that made it worse? Yes it did But I also think that the baby I think that the baby has an opportunity right now To To just be a human Forget about the rapper

Forget about the shows Just be a human man sit back and ask yourself if I could talk to the baby right now do you want anybody's life to be harder because you have a microphone in your hand everybody like ask yourself that question do you want anybody's life to be harder because you're a big star you don't you really don't you don't want anybody's life to be harder because you got on because you got a mic just be a human forget about a rapper the rapper stuff is fine you're really talented

ladies love you you make great music Just be a human for a second and listen to what people are talking about. And I think the answers will be right there. We're going to take a quick break. On the other side of the break, we are going to talk to Martin Luther King III. Honor to have him on higher learning. He's going to talk a little bit about some initiatives that he has to beat back this fierce challenge from the right on voting rights. He is actively picking up where his father left off in terms of making sure you have the right to go out there and vote.

when I say you, I mean all Americans, but specifically black Americans whose voting rights are under attack by some people in Washington. We're going to talk to him, honor to talk to him when we come right back. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows Winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need Weather Tech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those WeatherTech seat protectors. So just to be clear is the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. Every outfit starts with a choice.

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We are joined today. It's our honor today to be joined by Martin Luther King III. How are you today, brother? I'm doing well. Thank you for asking. Hope, hope that you all. the well as well. Thank you.

We are. We are well and we're honored to have you. You are the chairman of the Drum Major Institute and a leader that is organizing the march on for voting rights. There's been an assault on the voting rights of African Americans by the right here in the last couple of years, really as long as we've been here in America, people have sought to suppress our votes. Why don't you tell people the situation you feel like? like we're in right now as a community and what you're doing to try to change course?

Well, first of all, we all witness what happened in last year's election, where our nation chose to come together and elect a different president. And in my own state, the first black United States senator, the pastor of Ebeneza Baptist Church, the Reverend Dr. Wafiel Warnock, and the first Jewish Senator John Ossoff. My point is all over the country, we saw the election working because we were in the midst of a pandemic.

There were all kind of provisions made to make sure that people could vote. When too many people voted, all of a sudden, the Republican led states and legislatures decided we must do something to minimize or make it harder. They did not,

There have been no laws. There have been 18 states now that have embraced laws. And there have been over 400 laws proposed. I think there are 300 that are on the books per se right now. And those laws just make it harder to vote. I'll give one example. In my state of Georgia, I live in Fulton County, which is Atlanta. And in Fulton County, hypothetically, we had 30 drop boxes where you could drop ballots.

Now they're only going to be like 12. So in a state where the governor and the secretary of state said that we had a great election, for some reason the Republican governor and the Republican legislatures felt we need to make it harder for people who voted. Black folk, brown folk, students, even seniors to some degree. Now, our state is just one. Florida has done the same thing. you know, Arizona has done something. Texas is trying to do some very, very strict laws that make it so hard in Harris County,

which is Houston, largest county in the state where a lot of black folk or a lot of brown folk are, want to make it harder to vote. These kind of things are really crazy. We are a democracy, we say, and one of the fundamental points about a democracy is that, you know, you have the right to vote and everyone should have that right to vote and no one should be stopped or suppressed from voting by creating restrictions we should be expanding the right out of our 300 million people you know almost everyone in terms of who's an adult should be voting but that's just not the case and particularly in our community it's already been very difficult in our communities

because people sometimes feel well what does it matter what are elected officials do well I I think many people saw what President Trump was able to do by to disrupt and divide, even though they are black folk who supported President Trump. But the fact of the matter is overwhelming black folk saw the kind of things that he was doing, the racism that he was spewing, the kind of things he's doing now, saying, look, we lost, we did not lose this election. So you've got millions of Americans who believe the lie that he's telling. You have a president who, a former president, I should say, who lies.

to us just about every day of his presidency. And yet people still support that. So I, you know, I'm wondering what's wrong with our nation why we are so, why we become so divided. We always have had differences, but we probably were never as divided as we are now. So I'm from the state of Texas, which is just seems to be running amok, right? I just, I can't even, I'm not there now, but it's, I hear horror stories just for my friends. I'm paying attention of what's happening, even though I'm out here in Los Angeles. And I just want to know your take on maybe options people have, right? You know, you mentioned several states, but Texas in particular, having so many family and friends there, we see that the Democrats in Congress are walking out

and not allowing them to pass the laws that they're trying to in regards to voting rights, among other things. What options do they have to try to prevent this other than just the Democrats not being there for them to be able to be able to have the vote go through. Well, that's where federal legislation comes into place. In 1965, the Voting Rights Act was passed by Congress, well, passed by Congress and signed by President Johnson. And let me mention this just to give a little context. My father was one of those leaders in the modern civil rights movement in 1965. And when John Lewis, Congressman Lewis, the late former congressman and Josea Williams, who was a minister who worked with my father at SCLC, were leading that first march across the Edmund Pettus Bridge in 1965 on March 6th.

They were beaten and even John Lewis had a concussion. And it was all because they were marching peacefully across the bridge marching to Montgomery. The goal was to get to Montgomery to dramatize and demonstrate that we are really requesting the right to vote. At some point, it became a demand because legally we didn't have the right to vote. There were black folks who voted prior to them. But the Voting Rights Act really gave us a real opportunity because there's something in the Voting Rights Act called preclearance, which means that the federal government or the Justice Department can look over what states are doing to help or suppress. votes. And if they're suppressing votes, then they cannot be approved. The government has to

approve what they do, the federal government. Now, that's the case in Texas. The federal government needs to come in and a pre-clearance provision needs to be reimposed again. That law, by the way, was struck down in 2013 by the United States Supreme Court because they said there's no need for the Voter Nates Act anymore because all of a sudden America is liberated. You know, that's the same story that they say when they say, well, you know, this is after President Obama, it's a post-racial society. We don't have racism anymore. Now, it was wonderful. The folks came together, and it had to take a lot of whites as well as blacks and Latinos, Hispanics, Native Americans, everyone, Asian Americans coming together to elect President Obama. But the fact of the matter was,

the longer he was there, the more resistance that we saw. In fact, the Democratic Party, lost over 1,300 seats around the country during the years he was there. And that was, I mean, it wasn't like, you know, I mean, President Obama, you know, I'm very proud of and really many in our community, most in our community, and probably 98% really appreciated President Obama. But it wasn't like he, look, I'm going to hook up all the black folk. That's not what he did. He did some wonderful things, health care, to be one of the most important. But, you know, there were other areas that he was.

was not able to do things. So my only point is, why would you constantly resist someone who is looking out in his judgment for America, Americans? And that's the kind of president he was. Now, my other point is that every time we gain victories, their setbacks. In 1963, this will be 58 years when we get to the march on Washington on the 28th when we do marches all over the country. But in 1963, right after the march on Washington, about three weeks after the march, in Birmingham, the 16th Street Baptist Church was bombed and four tragically four little girls lost their live. So my point is, every time we make games, they're setbacks. And so after we had, you know, gains with President Obama, we had a huge setback with the election of President Trump in my judgment.

And we are still recovering from that, but that, in this case, it has stopped. You know, President Trump continues to tell lies to people and people still embrace that. which again makes me wonder, what is wrong with the country that I was born and raised in? And what are we going to do? Now, here's what we can do. Last year, we saw demonstrations right after the tragic death of George Floyd all over this country.

Many of those demonstrations were led by white young people because it was every state in our nation. It wasn't just here, by the way. It was also in Europe. It was on the African continent. It was in Australia. it was in South America as well as in Canada. So all over the world just about there were these demonstrations.

And people were holding up signs basically saying black lives matter. For the first time in history of this country, that sentiment is not going anywhere. Yes, there are still people who are racist and racism is still very much more part of our society than it should be. But I think the majority of people are saying we're putting that behind us. That's why they've created this whole concept. In Texas, you talked about your home, you talked about voting, but also the Senate passed a bill a few weeks ago, a couple weeks ago, banning the teaching of, I have a dream, banning the Ku Klux can. Of course, some people may not want to know about the Klan, but we need to know history because the people that do not know their history are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past. They wanted to ban Cesar Chavez and his teachings.

And they wanted to, really, they're trying to whitewash history. That's what I call it. They couldn't do it because the legislature on the House side, they're not, as you know, they're not enough members. So they're kind of in a holding pattern, although the governor we see, I think just yesterday has said he's called for a next session. But that's why it's so important for us to be in the streets in a nonviolent way. because I believe street action makes a difference. When my dad left President Johnson in 1964 after the Civil Rights Act, President Johnson said, Dr. King, I've used up all my political capital.

I can't do anything, you know, on a voting rights act. So my dad and his team said, we're going to have to find a way to give the president some power to be able to get this done. And that's when they marched through Selma and on several marches and places around the country. And ultimately, a voting rights act was signed. So my point is today, we need to have millions of people in the streets in Texas because we're having a march on the 28th in Houston. But we're having one in Phoenix. We're having one in Miami.

We're having one in Atlanta. We're having one in D.C. And then they're about, I think, eight or ten sister cities. And then there are activations in over 30 cities. So they're going to be 30 communities in many states where action will be taking place. And these senators are going to have to hear these voices. Now, we don't know what that is going on, what that means today, but I can assure you we're going to make it hot for them. I want to ask you a specific question about President Obama later, but right now I want to get to something that I noticed while I was going through you guys as a list of goals.

One thing that it seems is very, very important to your organization that we don't talk a lot about anymore. I remember seeing Jesse Jackson march about this when I was a kid is Washington, D.C., statehood, bringing Washington, D.C. into the fold as one of the official states of the union. Why is that so particularly important for people who might not know to the African American experience in this country? Well, because number one, Washington, D.C., and this is probably the reason it's not its own state, by the way, because Washington, D.C., 60 or 70 percent between African Americans and black and brown. So what that would do was create two United States senators

and at least one congressperson. I don't think it'd be two because I think a congressperson represents 600 to 750,000 people. So right now they have a congresswoman, Congresswoman Eleanor Holmes Norton, but she can't vote. That's like, you know, she can come to dinner every day, but she can't even vote for the people she represents. That's unconscionable.

That's really taxation without representation. And it's very sad that 700 plus thousand residents of Washington, D.C. have no representation in the United States Senate and in the House of Representatives, a titular person in the House of Representatives, but she can't vote. That's why people need to understand Washington, D.C. needs to be liberated, just like every other community in our nation. And that's why it's one of our goals in this march to also make sure that statehood, is addressed. And can you mention some of the other goals that you have for this March that's

going to happen on the 28th of this month? One of the significant goals is we're planning to register over 2 million people in a variety of states. And that's a minimum, by the way. I'm sure it's going to be far more than that. But we're comfortable stating that we will register at least two minutes, not on August 28th, but by the time of the midterm elections. We've got to get as many people registered as possible. And then we got to make sure that they are able to vote. And if these, if a new law is in place, for example, the John Lewis voter registration restoration act, which is what we are promoting, because that law in itself gives preclearance provision, puts it back on the table. Now, what's interesting is we visited Senator Lindsey Graham when we were

on, Reverend Sharpton, my wife, Andrea and I were on the Hill last Wednesday. And we visited Senator the grant. Of course, we've taken our test again to make sure we don't have COVID. I was just about to ask you. Are you okay? Yeah. We got this right away to make sure we're cool. So we're good. But the point is, in visiting him, I asked him, why did you vote for the Voter Registration Act in 2006? And why is it different today? Now, of course, he deflected. He never answered the question. But I also asked him, if you were in our position, what would you do? And he said, you know, what, I would keep doing what you're doing. He said, I'm going to keep doing what I do also. And he said, I can't, I can't support it. He never said why, but he said he couldn't support

it. He did talk about support for the George Floyd Policing Act, which, you know, could be good. Not the act, but I mean, his support. That could be a good thing. Because, you know, it's very interesting how people have lined up. And so they're probably about at least 15 members of of Congress. We didn't get to visit those who in the Senate, I'm saying, who voted for the Voting Rights Act on a number of occasions. And yet now none of them support it. And that should tell you something. And the fact of the matter is over 60% of Americans support, you know, voting rights being expanded and the John Lewis Act. So Congress is asleep at the wheel. I shouldn't say Congress because the Congress has passed some of these provisions, but the Senate is not.

The Senate is saying being obstinant, saying that we're not going to move. That's why we have to, what I call it is street heat, but it's not destructive. It's nonviolent. It's calling senators. It's tweeting senators. It's doing TikToks, tick, uh, talk. All the stuff that young people use to communicate. All those modalities we have to use and let these senators understand what time it is.

because our right to vote is precious. Women and men died, so we might have that right. And when the right people in office, and one of the things that politicians do is they divide up the money. So if the wrong people are at the table, when it comes to dividing up resources that you put in, because everybody pays taxes, if you don't pay taxes, you're going to jail.

And so the fact of the matter is, again, that's why, going back to D.C. statehood, I mean, Washington residents are paying taxes, but they have no representation. Again, taxation without representation, but everybody pays taxes. So if you want to benefit and want to make sure that things are done that the community needs, whatever it is, I mean, whether it's clean up the environment, whether it's, you know, right now everybody's concerned about crime.

That's a legitimate issue. There's something going on that we've not seen. We've seen crime go up and down. I don't think we've seen crime universally all over the country like we're seeing now. And I don't know what that means. But I know we got to put our heads together. come together and figure out how do we address that is one issue. But there are so many, many more issues that have to be addressed. And if the wrong people in office, those issues

are not going to be addressed, particularly issues for black and poor people. So President Obama turned 60. I think it was yesterday. Happy birthday to President Obama. Obviously, the election of Barack Obama was an incredibly transformative moment in the history of America. But you mentioned something a little bit earlier that I think a lot of black Americans, I think I was 28 when President Obama came into office, I think a lot of black Americans are looking back at his presidency and asking questions for coming from a family that's contributed so much to the African American experience, to some of the freedoms, some of the rights, just who we are. Looking back at President Obama's presidency, do you think that enough way?

was done for black people while he was president? So I think President Obama did what he believed that he could, could do. I think there's a different standard like everything else, although he was the president. He was still a black man in the United States of America. And I think that unfortunately, you know, if you asked, did he do enough? I don't think anybody ever does enough. I think there was so much and there's so much more that I wish that he could have done. Really, you don't think your father did enough?

I think he's, I think his dance card was pretty full. I think, I think, I think he, I think he got a lot done. But he did, but he would, he was one individual and he brought together a team of people and they did a lot of things. But by the same token, he himself would have probably said, no, I didn't, I didn't do enough because I didn't get to eradicate the triple evils of poverty, racism, and violence in our society. and if he he certainly made a monumental contribution. He was, I think he was prophetic and tuned in to God like very few of us are. He stayed true through the course. But I'd also believe he would say, no, I didn't do enough.

So my higher point is, now from a political, specific political point, I just believe President Obama's hands were tied. I think that he could have done some things with black colleges that he did not do, and, you know, he could have done some things on the African continent. When we look at how monies go to various countries that he did not do, I think that there are things that he could have done around poor people that really no one has done. I mean, it's always disappointing. We talk about the middle class.

That's wonderful because we need the middle class. But we never really talk about how do we address the poor, the working poor, the families who are, I mean, you know, we see Congresswoman Bush's story where she's been, she was living in her car with her three children. And she's now United States Congresswoman out of St. Louis. But my point is, there are many stories like that right now that exist. And the news doesn't talk about them, so we don't know. So the point is in a country that is so wealthy, you know, we've, we've got trillions and trillions of dollars of wealth.

And yet we can't find ways to eradicate. you know, homelessness and hunger. And quite frankly, you know, think about this. We just went through a tragic and still going through it, pandemic, last year. And all of a sudden, we were able to provide, my dad used to talk about a guaranteed annual income. Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, UBI is now a huge talking point.

But Dr. King was talking about that 50 years ago. That's right. That's right. He was talking about it in 67, 68. In fact, that's probably what got him killed. When you started talking about economics, it wasn't because he was talking about folks riding in the front of a bus or sitting down at a lunch counter.

That didn't cost the nation one dime. But when you taught, he talked about a radical redistribution of wealth back in the late 60s. And that's when they said, if this man is able to bring blacks and whites and others together, then we need to take him out. I have to go back to you. you having this meeting with, with Lindsey Graham. I can only imagine how frustrating it must be for you to go in there,

try to come to some common ground. And Lindsey Graham, I'm sure other senators like him, tell you keep doing what you're doing, but I'm always going to stand in your way and stop you from doing what you do. When someone, like that is infuriating to me. When someone says that to you, you're trying to fight the good fight. They're acknowledging that, but yet they're also telling you they're going to keep standing. in your way from you being able to achieve that. How do you keep going? That's what I think, you know, a lot of us look at when we see how divided Congresses or in the Senate is, how

frustrating things can be. And it seems like we can't get things accomplished. You talked about President Obama not being able to do that when he was in his presidency as well. How do you deal with that? How do you keep going? So sometimes you have to fortify yourself. I mean, the interesting thing was he's a he's an interesting character in other words you know he's somebody who's enjoyable to talk to if you're not talking about an issue that you want his help on right and you have to look as as I said what nonviolence teaches us is to go and address your adversary I could say enemy but I use adversary because I think that's a less the connotation is a little different that I'm on I'm going to fight my enemy no I'm going to find a way to work

with my adversary. I may not have but one issue or one thing that I can work with him or her on, but we need to we need to do that and maybe ultimately in time we can build some common ground. So yes, it is very disheartening to have to go through that process. But by the same token, you know, I didn't go in there expecting. I'm I'm expecting the worst and hoping for something. and I didn't expect him to say, you know what, I think you need to constantly push. He was talking to Reverend Sharpton and I for, you know, police departments being held accountable. He said, you know, we can do a choke hole and this and that, but that's not going to stop it until there's accountability where departments are held accountable for the actions of, you know, what police officers do. You're going to continue to have a problem.

and I think that has to be in the legislation. Now, we didn't expect him to say any of that, although he did say directly. My wife asked him, are you going to support voting rights? He said, no, I can't do that. And so, okay, I can respect you if you tell me the truth. I'd like to know and understand why, but I can respect that. But then I have to find something that I can't get your help on because you represent me.

And the fact of the matter is enough South Carolina. Carolinians having risen up and said, you know, Senator Graham, we want this. Or Senator Scott, Senator Scott would probably be the same thing as an African American, one of the few African-American senators, United States senators, who's on the Republican side. So, you know, I could say, you know, I'd been disappointed because I wanted, I wanted him to do more, particularly a while back when he says, I've been stopped several times as a black man by policeman. And, you know, about it. No one doing it matter.

Really? Yeah, yeah. You don't know. You tell me about that story. Right. You don't want to do nothing about it. Just throwing out there. Did Lindsay Graham mention qualified

immunity? Just curious. Did he talk about that when he was? Yes. That's what he was alluding to. That accountability, some level accountability. So you feel like Lindsay Graham

alluded to you that he would be for, that he could, that he would be for getting rid of qualified immunity. I wouldn't go that. far. Okay. Okay. He said we need to keep focused on that because in his honest opinion, unless there's accountability, nothing is going to happen. It's not, the changes are not going to come. But that needs to be in there. Now, he didn't say, you get that in there and I'll support it. He didn't say that. Right. He just needs. So, you know, baby steps. So I only got two more

questions for you. One is, I'm just going to come back to something you said earlier. You, you, you, you really feel like it was the poor people's movement, the poor people's march and the fight for economic freedom that your father was leading. And not so much his civil rights passed that ultimately led to his assassination. You feel strongly that that's that that's the case? There's no question in my mind, in my heart that the reason, I mean, there were confluence of issues. Dad had come out against the Vietnam War in 1916. I don't remember that. One year prior to his being killed.

And President Johnson and others took that very personally. Because in his mind, as some people would do, you know, I helped, I helped you Negroes. I gave you all the voting rights and a civil rights saying, now you're attacking me on the war. And dad was not attacking him personally. He was attacked. He was constructively criticizing the concept of war and what it does to our nation. in the world. We lost 50,000 soldiers in that war in the Vietnam War. So he was constructively criticizing and saying there's a better way than war. And it wasn't criticism of Johnson. But,

you know, that was one issue. The other issue was, as you may know or may not, but may have heard for sure. What one of the things that was happening is when those soldiers' bodies were coming home, they were cutting him open and putting, oh Lord, poppy. heroin, yeah. To make heroin for the streets. So the mafia was mad because this was going to cut into some major money, you know. So you had the mafia anger. You had the administration mad.

And then you had the prospect of he was doing a poor people's campaign to bring to the full blacks, poor whites, poor Native Americans, poor Latino, Hispanic Americans, Asian Americans, Americans from all walks of life to say we demand the right to decent jobs of decent pay and not a minimum wage, a living. wage. So you take all those things and put them together and you say, now, if he's able to bring all these people together, then it's going to be very dangerous. Yeah, yeah. It would have been made a great homogenous America, quite frankly. But that's what got him killed, all those confluences of things that came together and the fact that he was talking about an economic agenda. Now, advanced 58 years

later. Today, last year, we spent black people over a trillion dollars, over a trillion dollars. And yet, when you look at the wealth, the gap between, you know, black families, maybe 15,000 prior to the pandemic, by the way, and white families, 175,000, how is that gap still that large after 58 years? And, again, us spending, and the operative word is spending. So part of the issue is we've got to say, how do we support ourselves? And this is not a, in my judgment, a movement of saying, okay, I want to be a separatist. But if we are a strong community,

then we're in a better position to help ourselves and help others and build up our communities. And that's what we need to be doing in my judgment. Some things we're seeing happening slowly, but we still got a long way to go. For example, we've got a bank here that is run by African Americans that is growing and going to be a great concept an online bank that one of a friend of mine is the CEO of who also founded bounce television he

had he and I along with ambassador Andrew Young and several others founded bounce television but now they're doing a bank and are you talking about the greenwood initiative yeah absolutely shout out to my man killer Mike yeah the greenwood initiative there yeah he was a significant part of that Ryan lover and a host of us right yeah right right there's real big stuff last question I will ask you We're coming up on the 58th anniversary of the March on Washington. And the same things that we were marching for back then, we're still marching for. Seems like we take steps forward. Now we're taking steps backwards when it comes to voting rights.

What do you think your father would say about what's happening right now and the fact that we're still fighting for our voting rights in 2021? So I think he'd be greatly disappointed in the leadership of our country, particularly the Senate and the House and well the Senate most like at this particular moment. I'm biased. So unfortunately, I'm just going to tell my perspective. Not unfortunately, but because I always want to leave an opportunity for dialogue, even if I, you know, may disagree with you.

But I think he would be greatly disappointed in where we are on a number of issues. The income inequality gap, it would be greatly disappointed in that. the fact that, you know, we are as our community seems to be engaged in this, a lot of violence, but every community is quite frankly. I mean, it's not just our community. But it seems like whether it's Chicago, whether it's Atlanta, whether it's Birmingham. I mean, it doesn't matter where it is. We are constantly engaged in destroying ourselves. And so he'd be very disappointed about those things, very disappointed in terms of where we are as it relates to that. But he'd be very proud of all of these young people. He'd be proud of Black Lives Matter, the movement that has

really helped to transform this nation in a way that we've never seen. He'd be very proud of a lot of the young leaders who are out here, who are in the streets on a daily basis, who are using their voices, using their platform. He'd be very proud of a LeBron James. Back, you know, in dad's era, it was Muhammad Ali and Bill Russell and and and even Kareem was around a little bit and Jim Brown. Those athletes were the personification of, you know, standing up for that was right. Today, you know, LeBron is one. There are many others, but he does a phenomenal, he's a phenomenal example, you know,

empowering young black folk to be educated who were his boys. And so they have expertise, as we know. and they're working with him. Now, it doesn't mean he is not working with whites also. But the point is, the people who are helping to make decisions are black folk. You know, I think Dad would be proud of what he and so many others are doing. I named Colin Kaepernick, you know, what he did. There are a few people will put their livelihoods on the line to stand up for justice.

And so we must applaud brothers and sisters. They're sisters who are doing it as well. but I also at the end of the day dad was an optimist so he never gave up on the human experience the human spirit the fact that there's more goodness in fact what he would do is go to whomever

and find if they were only 2% good he would like a laser focus on that 2% and try to extract that and not you know not necessarily deal with that which was evil or bad and that I think he was able to bring the goodness out of America to help make America what it is. You know, there are people who run around talking about great again, wearing great again hats. And, you know, even black folk.

And I'm like, when was that? I mean, I do understand that we've had spurts of greatness. But dad talked about making America to America that it ought to be, not great again, because I don't know that time. I can look back over the year. I can't figure out what you're talking about when you agree. Right. And so, you know, you think you would have met?

You think he would have met with President Trump? Sure. I think he would, just as I did that. I think that whoever's in power, I was criticized by our community, took my head off. That's fine. I didn't care about that because I believe that you have to always have dialogue. And if you're not in dialogue, then, you know, you're not even taught about. Now, we asked for specific things prior to his going in the office.

It was the day before he was inaugurated. And he said, yeah, I think I'll have you at the White House in 30, 60, 90 days. We tried to re-engage. This was actually around the issue of voting and the ID provision. That was one of the issues. There was several others. Well, they obviously went not intentional or serious. So I gave them the opportunity, just as others had come.

I didn't come in asking, you know, for something for myself. Some may have or one and now. I didn't want to have, I don't necessarily need a relationship with Donald Trump, but he was the president of the United States. And somebody has to be talking to him, even when he's talking in an insane way, which is what he did most of the time. So, and I think my father, and I'll give this example. Dad met with President Eisenhower and Vice President Nixon.

In fact, Nixon and Dad had a relationship. Nixon came in my father's funeral. Dad met with President Kennedy and Vice President Johnson. Dad met with President Johnson and Vice President Humphrey. And whomever was in office, he and his team were going to engage them because one of the ways that you get things done is you have to talk to people, regardless of what they may say they believe. Last question, and I just, this is for my own curiosity.

I'm sure you've met him. What is your relationship like with Samuel and? L. Jackson. Because I'll tell you why. Because when I was doing something on Samuel L. Jackson back in the day, little known fact, Samuel L. Jackson took this man. Well, no, no, not only was he an usher, but they took over Morehouse and your granddad was in there.

Like your grandfather was in there. Like Samuel L. Jackson stormed the Morehouse. administration building and took it over while your grandfather was in there and he was also an usher at your dad's funeral. So do you ever, did you demand an apology from him from like, bro, why did you treat my granddad like that? No, I mean, my, my grandfather was a great supporter of students and probably Samuel Jackson as well. I always have admired Samuel Jackson and I won't say we're, we always are very cordial. We, you know, he, and his wife and I and my wife, we've spoken,

but I'm not, I wouldn't say, oh, yeah, he's a friend of mine. That wouldn't be true. But I have great admiration and respect for him, respect him for what he's done in the industry and craft, his talent. He's innumerably talented. Yeah. And we all, we all know that. And so we are always very cordial, very warm.

We've had a warm relationship forever. As far as I can remember, I think I used to, when he was at Moore House, I used to go to plays, go and watch plays and watch him performing back then. Maybe I didn't consciously know, but I knew, okay, this brother had a little talent. Of course, Spike was in my class. Spike and I were classmates. So, you know, I'm a little closer to Spike than Samuel, but I certainly, you know, certainly always have respected Samuel.

All right. Well, next time I see him, I'm going to pitch him for your granddaddy. I'm just going to give him a little pitch. Just a little pitch. Hey, man, respect your elders. I'm going to pinch him. All right, listen. This was so informative.

It was amazing to sit down with you and talk with you today. Tell people just immediately how they can be supportive of everything that you're doing to ensure that Americans aren't disenfranchised. So first, I would encourage everyone to come to the website, March on for Voting Rights. and sign up in one of the cities to come in, to show up, to show out, show in, not out in a negative way, but that's the first thing. We are going to be marching and marching and having events in over 30 communities on August 28th, which is the 58th anniversary of the March on Washington. The second thing I want to encourage you is to help us with other organizations, anybody who is a

friend who you know does not register, encourage them to get registered, sign up. The third thing is to get on the horn, you know, or text your senators to tell them you want them to vote to expand voting rights for all people. It's not just for black folk. It's going to benefit us, but it's going to benefit everybody. Expanding voting rights, not reducing voting rights, which many state legislatures are doing. And the fourth thing is, you know, I think at some point, we got to reflect a little bit because this day will come and go. But whatever happens in the Senate, if we are victorious and ultimately we will be, it may not happen today or tomorrow.

But ultimately, we're going to win this battle because people are going to keep pushing. It, you know, it's strange how, I guess, God or the universe works. And things happened that we didn't expect. I have to imagine my father and his team probably didn't feel like many days that they were going to be successful. But they continued. They were resilient. They kept moving forward. They kept it moving.

And ultimately, we gained a number of things in this country. And we still have a long, long way to go. Now, we may have to get to the point where we do some economic withdrawal, by the way, you know, spending a trillion dollars. Okay. We really need to think about how we're spending our money. And if we're spending money with those corporations that do not support us, we need to withdraw our money. I mean, we could shut it down. I mean, we put more money in Bank America and, you know, all the major banks.

I'm using Bank America as one example because Bank America put more black folk out of houses than anybody. All of them did it, but Bank America had the largest number of foreclosures on black folk of anybody, even though prior to the foreclosure, we didn't talk about this, but prior to the foreclosure crisis, they knew that that thing wasn't going to work because they knew that, you know, people qualified initially, but then your mortgage jumps up 100 percent, and your salary is not going up but 3%. So they knew that the foreclosures were going to come. So they made, they took a risk and said, we're going to get short-term gain, make millions, and millions of dollars, but create long-term pain for millions of people.

So my only point is Bank America, all of the big banks, Wells Fargo, Chase, you know, trust company, you name it, all of them. All of them, we put our money in, but what are we getting from them? And we need to start evaluating, are we getting what we need to? And that's just one area. There are other, you know, commodities that we engage in. Because we lead the pact. We set the trend. We are trendsetters as a community. The whole world looks to us for how long express. And we need to capitalize on that and say, okay, we're going to stop supporting this. I mean, you know, my hats off to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, I mean, I mean, this has got to be a dollar corporation. Yeah. I mean, that you, you, you had to applaud

that and she did it through building a business. So understand we can, she shows us that we can do this. We can become very successful and we can help our communities. And that's what I'm most concerned about. How we as a community are going to lift our own communities up to create opportunities for those who are coming in the future, those who are yet to come. Absolutely. My brother, thank you for taking the time. Yes. We are richer in spirit and smarter and mind for it. We appreciate you join us on higher learning today. Thank you. And thank you so much. Thank you for what you all do every day.

We, you know, greatly appreciate what you're doing. But given, you create an opportunity for so many to get a message out, to get a word out to just get to know about folks. Because there's a lot going on. And folks need to know. Right. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

Peace. Okay. So up next, we have one of the bigger names in hip hop. A gentleman who is multifaceted. he is a wrestling savant. He is a savant in the musical areas. He is a sports nut. He has a new album coming out.

He makes his living. It's part of the morning drive over on Hot 97. After we come back on the other side of this, we have Mr. Peter Rosenberg for you. We've got to ask Peter about a lot of stuff, man. We're going to cover all the stuff in hip-hop. So look, we know it's a big-time supersized podcast, But this interview right now is for all of our listeners, but especially for the hip hop heads.

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We have a very special guest on the show today. This is somebody who I like to say is devoted their life to hip-hop. He is a champion and a fighter for that real hip-hop shit. And also, one of the biggest voices in hip-hop culture. He's a host on,

Would you say the most legendary of all hip hop stations, Hot 97 in New York? Is that fair to say legendary? How would you describe it? If I was trying to give it the best, most pop-inous description, I would say the most iconic hip-hop radio station of all time. Iconic hip-hop radio station of all time. That's a perfect way to put it. But he is a host. He is a wrestling fanatic.

He is a sports guy. He wears many hats. His name is Peter Rosenberg. Thank you for joining us today on Higher Learning, brother. Thank you. I appreciate it. Van, Rachel, I appreciate being here. And Van, just wanted to show you love, man.

Glad to see you back. I was thinking about you and thinking about your pops, man. So appreciate you having me on and glad to see you, bro. I appreciate that, bro. And I also appreciate the message that you sent when I was going through a band. It meant a lot. I appreciate you being here. A lot of stuff happening in hip hop, man.

What? Good week for hip hop. Good week for hip hop, bro. Let me ask you a question. I think everybody last night is on the same page that the locks handled the dipset or whatever it was. It was a couple of nights ago now. The locks handled the dipset. I think everybody is on the same page about that. The question I would ask to you is how bad that the locks bully the dipset?

Shout out Jim. Shout out Cam. Shout out Jim. Cam, love those guys. But if you had to make it into a football score, what would you say the score of that versus was? Uh, um, 3721. 3721.

So not enough to be like you shouldn't have been on a field, but a clear victory where we were celebrating with five minutes left in the fourth. See, Van? Yes, that's exactly. I was going to say 3714, but I thought that was too lopsided. So I went 3721. You went the nice route. And I didn't watch the battle.

I might have been the only person who didn't. But don't, don't. I watched it. Normally, you normally don't watch versus Vans. So I was actually, yeah. I don't watch versus. I don't, but I was going to watch this one. You think I was going to, I forgot.

Yeah, I was going to watch this one. Yeah. But did you think. that the locks was going to win by pretty much a landslide from everything that I read about it and in the cliffs that I seen. Did you think that that's how it was going to go? No, I wasn't really thinking super clearly about it. I was just looking forward to it and like, oh, should I go? Should I not?

How late a night is it going to be? How much COVID's going to be in there? I was more thinking about it just selfishly and knowing it was going to be entertaining. Within five minutes, though. Yeah. It was like, oh, shit, I forgot. The reason everyone always loved Dipset was swag. Yeah.

And the reason everyone loves the locks is because of rap, and this isn't a swag battle, it's a rap battle. And this is going to be a problem. And it actually, you know, there was a time where, and people forget this, where diplomats, like, they weren't thought of as, like, rapity rap at the time. It was like really commercial swag rap in New York. But because of nostalgia, we get lazy and we put everything in the same box of like, it's all old school hip hop.

It's all classic hip hop. It's classic, but it was never bars bars. Whoa, you're not trying to say Cam and them, Cam and Jim. The dip set that was Jim, first of all, Jim has come a long way as an MC. Jim now, I'm not talking Jim now at all. Jim now is a rapper. He's an MC. He's all that.

But Cam is nice and Jewel's is nice. And they always been nice, Peter. So I, no, no, I'm not taking that away. Like, they have- He's talking about freaky-ziki. I'm not just like, Shout off. Shout out Frankie Ziki, man. Rachel, I live here.

He might want to go to Harlem, Rachel. He might want to move around up in Harlem, Rachel. Okay. I live uptown, by the way, not other way up town. Right, right. But no, it's not even that. And, oh, God, this is the hard part about 20-21. We were trying to analyze the battle, right?

And I'm like, and we're trying to give real opinions. And, you know, I'm jumping out and saying certain songs. I'm just like, no, that wasn't good. Keep it moving. And I said to Ebro and Laura, I'm like, oh, my God, do you guys realize the irony? Stiles P got up and called them pussy on stage. And they were all good. Meanwhile, I'm going to get on the radio next day and be critical of one song and someone's

going to want to punch me in the face. Let me just say, Cam is dope. But swag was always a big part of Cam's thing. two. Like when you get down to it, Cam versus Jada kiss, let's take the captains of both teams. Cam versus Jada kiss, even though some would argue Stiles is a better MC than Jada kiss, which I'm open for the debate. You go Cam versus Jadais and as nice as Cam is and as swaggy and fun as he is, it's not the same sort of like, it's just not the same impact bar for bar for me. Right. And that doesn't mean one's not, it doesn't mean that Jada's smarter. It doesn't mean that Jada has

better lyrics. It just means when you see them head-to-head rapping, there's an instrumental play. I'd rather hear Jada jump on it and just go off. That's how I see it. And that's a lot of times how I view M seeing like, who would you, in a cipher, in a cipher, they get past the mic,

and everyone's sitting in the room having to watch each other. And by the way, I don't even know why I'm making an argument because Jada proved that I'm right. Like he did it. I mean, it happened last night. It happened on the stage. Yeah, this isn't a hot take. He grabbed the mic and he fucking did it.

Yeah. did it. How did a white dude from Chevy Chase, Maryland, um, become so dedicated to hip hop? Um, I don't, I don't know exactly, but, you know, my brother and I started, uh, listening to hip hop. My brother first, he's four and a half years older than me. So, okay. In like 87, my brother started really getting into music. So I was only eight, but he was 12 and a half 13. He was. He was, was of that age when you're finding music, right? And he had friends at school who were listening to hip hop. And Chevy Chase Maryland is like a, it's a fairly wealthy suburb. Some parts are extremely wealthy. I'm in the still very nice super suburban part of it. But there's like Chevy Chase, D.C.,

which is beautiful and gigantic. But we went to very diverse schools economically, racially, everything. So my brother had black friends in school who were listening to rap and put him on to it. And then when we started, when we would visit New York, I don't, you know what? I've never asked him. He's in the next room right now actually visiting me. I've never asked

him what made him turn on the radio at my grandparents' house. Because my grandparents live in Rockaway Beach or did. Lived in Rockaway Beach, New York. That's Queens. And we, when visiting, my brother would turn on 98.7 kiss and 107

WBLS and we would listen to DJ Red Alert and Marley Marl and Chuck Chillout and all these people. I don't know why he started doing that, but that was the beginning of it. And hearing those radio shows and that energy of the music at that time, I was too young to understand it. But the way I look back at it now, we, you know, Van, we're almost the exact same age. Like, we were observing magic. Like we were, we were observing. It was pretty nuts. Yeah. It was magic. So like, and that obviously, as we know now, you know, hip hop is so, while the black experience is a 1,000% and brown experiences are both integral to the creation of hip hop. From a consumption standpoint, there's no race attached to hip hop. Like you, you heard magic being made.

To me, I was just one of the fortunate white people who was actually paying attention because magic was being made. And anyone I feel like who had a soul who would have heard it would have been like, what? Is this happening? Let me ask you. You talk about magic being made. Do you still get that feeling when you listen to hip-hop? Sometimes. I do.

Listen, sometimes I do. It's very easy and fun when you're old like we are, not you. To traffic in the easy shit talk of what's, hot now. Like, let's talk shit. And by the way, it happened to me yesterday. Okay. I ended up clicking on a hot new hip hop troll link about 21 Savage. And I'm looking at a picture of him holding money to his ear in front of a Ferrari. And before I know it, here I am sending old man tweets. Do you think that the old school rappers, if they had social media would have posted the same shit everyone posts? Like, it's easy to go there because it does annoy me. And it's easy,

even though I think 21 is an incredibly unique rapper. Brand wise, everyone's so fucking similar. Like it is irritating. But, yo, man, Tyler's album just now got me excited. When I heard that lumberjack for the first time with DJ drama on it, that got me going. You know, this is almost overstated at this point. But Kendrick, you know, Kendrick. You love Kendrick.

I love Kendrick. I remember Lupe, the classic. Lupe clip where you love Kendrick so much that Lupe was saying that you were actually nut-hugging. Leupe and I used to be very friendly at some point. We've had ups and downs for sure, but we were very friendly at some point. And he is among the rappers who like me less because of how much I fucked with Kendra. Let me just say, like, this is one of the things that's always miffed me. There are names bigger than Lupe, who I, and by the way, Lupe is a great fucking rapper.

I don't care if he likes me or not. Amazing. Yeah. Brilliant rapper. I think he can be a dick to me, but I think he's a great rapper. But you'd be amazed at the level of rapper, an artist, who really felt a way about the way I leaned into Kendrick. And I guess it's two things. There's two things about that.

Number one, it's funny to me. And it makes me feel good because I don't get a lot. Me and Van have talked about this, but like, I don't get a lot of people. props. I'm not the shiny dude to rub elbows with. On my birthday, I'm not getting the fucking post from the rappers. I told Syf the other day, yo, when I'm dead and those posts come out and they'd have to dig up their pictures of me, well, either tell them go fuck themselves or I'd really appreciate it. One or the other. But no one posting pictures of me, like, I'm not that guy. The one thing that does fuel my ego, though, and make me feel good is the way people cared that I decided Kendrick was this

person. And to be honest, I don't know why people don't appreciate it a little bit more because I took my platform that I have and I said, this kid is worth all the chips because of how good he is and how good he could be for the game. I'm putting all the chips in on this kid. Yeah, he's not from New York and I didn't know him that well at the beginning, but I was like, I'm going all in for this guy. And the truth is, I think I got a lot of hate for it because I got it right. Like, we're looking around now. He's right. You don't have to think he's number one, but I think all of us would say, if someone said,

who are you're, who do you think the best rappers alive are in, in 2021? And he wasn't in the top five people. I think most people are like, oh, what about Kendrick? Yeah. Yeah. No, Kendrick is. Kendrick is real. Yeah.

Kendrick's real. Um, I do like other rap. I don't just listen to fucking to Pimp a Butterfly on repeat every day. You could, though. And it would make for a great life experience. People did sleep on that. People did sleep on DePimpa Butterfly. In the years before, it was really trendy to post about all things, consciousness and black pride.

Kendrick had been on that black pride and social justice and awareness really early when it was not terribly trendy to do. You know what? Do you know what happened with To Pimper Butterfly when it came out? Like, I put it on when I was on a treadmill and I would try to run to it. It's not a treadmill album. You know what I mean? It's not a treadmill album. But you know what I used to, and this guy's gone now, but not gone.

Like I acted like he's dead, but he's just not around as much anymore. You know what I used to get my miles up to? I would just play panda on repeat. I would just play panda on repeat. Like I'll be in the gym. People, I'd be like, don't touch it. Panda just going over and over for 30 minutes. And just kept my heart right up.

Yeah, the song was so. That first, actually the first 20 minutes of life of Pablo could really do for you anyway because it was on life of Pablo in the end. Oh, no, no, for sure, life of Pablo. Right. That first 20, that first 20 when, yeah, yeah, yeah, after famous, this thought. When you get to the chance shit and you're, you're running for Jesus. Yeah, I'm Jewish.

I'm running for Jesus. Like, it hits you in so many ways. And then after famous, by the second verse of Famous, I'm bored of, like, famous always gets bored to me by the second chorus, but. Sometimes I feel like people give Peter Rosenberg a hard time. Like I feel like they give you a hard time. Like do you feel like the fact that you're the white guy at the iconic hip hop radio station makes people target you a little bit? Let me put it this way.

In 2021, we all three of us know, I'm not getting hired for this job. And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Like I think it's, you know, I get it. I fully understand. you think is right? I think it's great. In New York City, I think having a multicultural show is fantastic.

And Hot 97 is a multicultural station. Like people don't really seem to fully get that. And like, you know, I'm not going to sit here and speak about, you know, Ebro's racial identity. But we get lots of,

like, I saw it yesterday. Yo, is anyone going to recap the verses? Someone replies to that person. Yo, Ebro, Lauren Rosenberg, they recap every verses on the air. And by the way, we go on the air on commercial radio. We did a 90-minute recap of the verses on the air, not just for YouTube.

You're driving around. You're hearing the entire verses word for word. And so someone responded with that. And they said, no, I want to hear black voices. And I'm like, well, first of all, that would be fair if there were no black voices on the program. But I'm literally the only straight up white person is me. I'm the only one. We have a handful of people in that room of different races.

So to answer, I guess your question, a really long roundabout way. I think it's, I understand why if it was right now, you know, you would not be looking to fill a voice in hip hop with a white voice. At the same time, there aren't a lot of prominent white voices in hip hop. Like, it's not like I feel like there's some overabundance. You know, in recent years now, you have like, no jumper is a thing that's very prominent. But like, it's not as if I, when I was coming up over the last decade, it's not like as if I looked around and saw a lot of knees out there. In fact, that was always what I thought was going to happen. I thought I'd never get my chance of Hot 97 because I just assumed some truly hip hop loving, authentically really lit was about the shit guy would get the spot before I did.

I just didn't think I'd get there. And I made it at 27. I made it in time. And now I've held this job for 14 years. You know what I'm saying? And like I'm the longest 10-year person who's ever been on the morning hot 97. So for all the memories people have of the greats, no one's been here. I mean, to keep it real with you, no one's been here close to as long as me.

So now, I can understand why that would be annoying. And so people are just kind of like, why is this guy still fucking around? The thing that people don't understand is the radio part of it. Everyone's so tied into YouTube and social media. And I'm not a huge social media presence. I'm not a, I got big on YouTube, actually. That's kind of how I got started. But I was the first generation of YouTube.

And so at this point, I think people are looking around. They're like, there are all these voices that are so loud on social media. They're not understanding. I'm not from that. I am a radio dude. Like, I'm a local radio personality. I do morning drive in New York City. and I'm on a competing signal on afternoon drive in New York City.

Something about me for better or for worse compels people to turn on the radio. So I think that people don't necessarily understand it. Whereas people in New York, like you said the thing, it's all started with, I feel like people give you a hard time. And in the social media world, I agree with you. In the streets of New York, though, no, I feel a lot of love and really like a part of the community here. That's interesting because I would imagine that, Coming up, being white in hip hop, you constantly had to prove yourself, right?

Like that you deserved to be on the mic or to have a seat at the table or however you want to refer it. Do you feel like because or refer to it as do you feel like in 2021, you're kind of having to do that all over again because of what's happening? So here's the thing. Sure. Even answering these questions. I'm sorry. No, no. I really want to know though.

Like I think it's, I'm very curious. Listen, it's a genuinely interesting question. I genuinely trust both of you. And I feel like, you know, in real life, especially like late at night, we can have some really deep conversations about all of this shit. And Van and I have had some personal conversations about all shit and why I think I get some of the shit that I get. But what I'm not going to do is in any way throwing a pity party for being the white guy who gets to choose to and be accepted in hip hop. I will say this. I have moments that are shitty.

I have takes that get thrown away where if my, if my counterparts who look different than me and exist in other places put out the same thought, I think people are like, that's fucking true. And when I say it, there's a little bit of shut the fuck up, white boy. Yes, does that exist? Sure. But this is all coming from a place of privilege. I got to choose this.

So I can't put a, it gives me, it gives me, it gives me a little bit of insight into what it might be like to not be white in this country in terms of feeling like you have to double prove things. Yeah. But the thing is, I'm white. So I can always walk away from it. Yeah. At the end of the day, if I got fired from Hot 97, I'd be super depressed.

My family would feel sorry for me. And I'd move back to Chevy Chase, Maryland and be okay. So I'm not going to make it feel like I have to, y'all don't know what I have to do. I can walk away anytime. I choose to do this. I'm honored to get to do it. I know that people hate on it. I know that people think it's annoying.

Come take my job. Be better than me. I'm provocative every day. I know my shit when it comes to hip hop. And more importantly, I'm able to walk through these trenches every day in 2021. This, y'all are doing it. Y'all are broadcasting. And granted, we might be in different positions, but it's a minefield going live on the radio,

eight hours a day. Yeah. That's the number one. an award in life. So I can deal with the arrows that come with it. And, you know, one day I do think, Van, that I think one day when I move on, like today, everyone's posting a video of Fat Joe telling a story on his IG live yesterday. Everyone posting it. Yo, Fat Joe tells stories like this. Fat Joe has been doing that in every interview he's ever given for a decade. For years, yeah. And on his IG live show literally every night.

Right. Then the group thinks sees it on Twitter and now they're all talking about it. One day when I leave Hot 97 and God willing, it's because I move on to another great opportunity and life is good. I think there will be a time when people start posting the shit and be like, yo, y'all, y'all forget. Rosenberg was actually the dude who always did say this shit that we agree with now. But it's not going to be in this moment and I don't expect it to be. you were one of the earliest pioneers um one of the earliest people into the podcast game as far as hip hop was concerned is it hip hop is it's true it's true you're one of the earliest people yeah won epstein going um uh earliest people to get into the podcast game you and of course uh reggie rest and peace combat um you guys were early on with the hip hop and now hip hop podcasts are going crazy and you can't talk about hip-hop podcast right now without talking about the big divorce in hip-hop

podcasting, which was the Joe Button divorce between Rory and Moll. Now, you've had your own really interesting history with Joe. Rory and Moll are cooking up now, and it's actually they're doing their thing. They're out of here. Out of here. They're, yeah, it's, it's working. That's a good move by Kevin Durand and Rich Climman. When you look at that whole thing, who do you hold responsible for the end of their run?

I mean, listen, it's always Joe. It's always Joe. I love Joe, but that's, I didn't listen to every little clip of them talking shit back and forth and what Rory and Ball said and what Joe's. There's two things. It's Joe's fault. they broke up. I don't care what the story is. It's Joe's fault they broke up. And guess what?

I love, Rory's a real good friend. Like, Roy and I, you know, he's a good guy. Real good. We're cool. We're very cool. Yeah. I don't know them all as well. But Roy and I are super cool. Joe gave those dudes a fucking career. So Joe's an asshole and he will eventually burn every working relationship he has until he figures out why he acts like an asshole.

but just to be clear if Rory and Moll started a podcast five years ago they would have 18 listeners and I say that with all due respect like they need to know that they are talented guys who Joe put on and now they are out of here

so while he's an asshole and he deserves to be called it at times I'm also at the same time just pointing out you know Rory and Rory and Moll probably already made more money on podcasting in the last three months than I've made my career on podcasting I'm like motherfucking

Master Kaz. You know, I'm like, I'm one of the dudes in the Furious Five who never got my look. Like a, like a random player for the Knicks in 1965 who had to, who had the bad groceries after going to play in Bass's Quigard. And then they went on to win the championship. And then I went on to win the championship, right? Like all those old players. We have to have jobs in offseason.

Yeah. No, me in Saifahs always joke about Wanette that like we're like the legendary dudes who didn't. And by the way, there's. some actual sadness to this joke because it is something we've all seen. But we do joke about it. Like, we are like the dudes who are down from day one who show up at the club now wearing the full sweatsuit. Like, yo, my man, you'll let, tell him I'm at the door. And then you go see him. And it's a guy who is kind of legendary. And he's like, yo, man, I'm like plus seven, man.

You got to let me. And so none of that was meant to be a slight to Rory Mall or to Joe. Joe is a dick very regularly. He pushes away people who care about him. I love Joe. And I don't give a fuck what Joe says about me. Joe loves me. Joe and I've been friends for a long time. Joe, Joe was the first person I really ever knew in hip hop.

In 2002, I interviewed him when I was at XM in D.C. And Joe was one of the first people who met me and was like, you're a fucking something. He would like come do my show and sit with me for an hour. And just like when I was nobody. He just enjoyed the fucking way that we, and me and Joe always have entertaining conversation. But unfortunately, you know, he has just a part of his personality. I don't know if it's self-sabotage, depression. I'm not sure what it is, but he pushes people away who care.

And I don't think the Rory and Moll thing, really, we could probably pull up all the layers and we would end up getting to that same thing, I think, underneath. So either way, they're all going to be good. Let's be honest. None of us need to cry tears for Joe Bud and Rory. All right. Everybody's in the top five. What?

Everybody's... Are they? Yeah, Joe's number slipped a little bit if you listen to the internet. Like, I guess they slipped a little bit. But, I mean, right now, if you look at the charts, everybody seems to be... The whole point of the fucking thing is there's enough out there for everybody. This insipid, weird, we got a beat on each other. This only one mic shit is whack.

It's lame. It's we too old for it. So they were going to go start. a podcast it was going to be successful. They're going to be successful. Everybody's fine if we came playing the same playground and that's cool and it will just wait until a time when you can. But, you know, it was just, I just wanted to know your thoughts on it because it, it,

it was a drama that we all watched unfold amongst guys that we knew. Well, Rachel doesn't know. I'm left out of it. He made me, he made me talk about it for weeks on the podcast. Do you listen to the podcast? Rachel doesn't know. Listen. So the funny thing for me is like it's it's so it was so big but I I wasn't a Joe listener. I watch an occasional clip that pops up on saying that's it. You know, so so to me though, these dudes though, I mean these dudes out here with their man love for Joe Button. I don't know what it is about Joe. Joe Budden Joe Rogan. The way that these bros fucking loved these dudes and by the way, Joe isn't it? I started the fucking podcast. I know how talented. he is. What do you mean you started the podcast?

Joe Button podcast started in my apartment. Me, Joe Button, and Marissa Mendez. Marissa actually is the one who dragged him over to me and was like, let's talk to Peter about starting a podcast. And I was like, yo, the early episodes of I'll name this podcast later, I'm the first voice ever on the podcast. And my logo is on the first 50 episodes of the podcast. I'm just an idiot who everyone thinks because I'm Jewish, I must be sitting on bags of cash, but I I actually am just talent and have no business sense at all. So I didn't handle it at all. I've never made money.

Now, do you think it's fair to say- So he owes you a check? Do you think, hold on for a second? Do you think it's fair to say that you started the podcast, though? I am not saying I'm owed anything. And I'm not saying Joe wouldn't have done it anyway because he's a great broadcast talent and people have known that. Right.

But at the same time, you tell me. Yeah, tell me. Because like, to say that the- You say I started the podcast. It's like his podcast. Right. The idea happened at 275 West 96th apartment 23F.

And then I procured a studio, an engineer, where I brought them to the studio to start recording. And then on the beginning of the first podcast, it's me going, hey guys, all right, Joe, all right, blah, blah, blah, let's get this thing started. I don't know how else to say. I mean, I'm not saying I'm the brain.

He's correct. But I think that is I started it. But he doesn't owe me shit. Like he was going to pop off. How you go say, hold on for a second. You can't have both of those thoughts, Peter. You can't say I started the podcast and didn't say that you didn't know. He doesn't want to check.

I don't. You might be old. You might be old one. No, but you don't want one. I didn't do the business there. See, bears. Now you, now bear the dog. The dog is like, what?

Here's what I'm saying. I didn't do the business to, deserve a check. I didn't, I didn't handle my shit, so I really can't say anything. Marissa is the one who got the unfair. Marissa getting unceremoniously sort of. She's the one who got screwed over. Shout out to Marissa.

Uber talented. By the way, just to let you know, they going to light your ass up for saying that you started that man's podcast, Peter. They going to get you. They go get you, Peter. If they're the super, if they're the super fans that they, are they know. I'm in full support of this.

Now, I'm going to change. I'm moving on. I'm putting on my lawyer hat. I'm listening to the way he said it. He might not want one, but, you know, technically, there's something there. Anyways, I'm going to change the subject because I'm going to get out of the, get you out of the hot seat. Help me understand this.

Are you a wrestler? Because we were talking, I was trying to figure this out before. Wrestling champ. Help me understand. Wait a minute. He's fucking God. Wait a minute. Put those down. I want to want to a free ticket.

Are you a wrestler? Okay, what's the deal? I'm not a wrestler, but if you go to my Wikipedia page, it does have a section for championships and accomplishments with one championship. I work for WWE. I do all the kickoff shows for all the pay-per-views. It is a dream job that I love having. And there is a title called the 24-7 championship, which can be defended or lost at any moment.

and at one moment during the Royal Rumble, we were live on the show, and I had an opportunity to blindside our truth. Oh, I blindsided our truth. I rolled them up for a one, two, three, and for around 20 hours, I was WWE 24-7 champion.

And it was one of the most fun days of my life. Like I, it's so fun. Like people who understood it were hitting me on some like a lot of people are like it's wrestling What does that even mean? I don't get it and then there are the people who did get it were hitting me on some like yo man You did it bro you did it yeah shit 19 night I think my love affair with wrestling probably ended in Right after the Monday Night Wars I still check in from time to time but in Louisiana it was such a big fucking deal like what was the Texas, too. Yeah, well, Texas has incredible history.

What were people watching in Louisiana the most? I guess when you were a kid, WCW. WCW. So, well, when I was a kid in the 80s, it was all WWF. But then, like, the Mid-South stuff would come around and we would actually go to those shows. Really? Yeah. And then once Flare started doing his thing, we would,

once Flare started doing his thing, he was really the one. Flair and Sting were the guys that started to sway it a little bit. to where I remember asking my brother, I was like, well, Rick Flair and Steen, they're not in the WWF. Like, what are they in? And he was like, I didn't understand it. And he was like, yeah, it's a completely different organization. I'm like, it's more than one. It's like, yeah, the ones that we go see at the Centralplex and stuff like that, like those, that's not the WWF. And so it was different. He was a little older. And then the boom happened. And it was my, it was our entire life. What, 97, 98, 99, that time?

Yeah, the whole thing. So I remember, I'd never forget two moments of wrestling lore to where there was literally emotions attached to it. One was bash at the beach when it turned out that Hogan was in the NWO. Do you want to feel old? We just had the 25 year anniversary of that. That's fucking crazy. 25.

That's nuts. God rest of soul, I'm sitting down and I'm watching that with my dad. And my, like, you know, we're waiting who's the next person? Who's the next person? And my dad, and Hulk Hogan comes out. My dad goes, there he go. All right, Hulk Hogan going to get these boys straight. That's what I'm talking about.

Like, Hulk Hogan going to get these boys straight. Oh, Hulk Hogan got this. You know Hogan do anything. Because my dad liked Hogan because he was a little bit older. My dad was always on this. Old man can still do it too. And then Hogan turned. He went, he, he he'll turned.

And my dad was like, you know God damn well, man. Cut this goddamn shit off. I don't want to watch Hokeoke. and he hated Hollywood Hogan. He just thought it was terrible. It worked like an absolute charm. Oh, it worked so because he couldn't campus. He's like, so you mean telling me,

Hulk Hogan, the bad guy? He bad. I'm like, yeah, he's bad. He's playing the fucking heavyweight championship like it's a goddamn guitar. He's mean and all of that stuff. I'm going to ask you a question, a restaurant question.

This is only for social because our audience doesn't know this. Top five promos. In the history of wrestling, who are the top five guys at cutting a promo? No order. Can I just give it out of order? Yeah, without an order. Flair, Austin, Dusty. Let me close this door.

Oh, Dusty. Dusty was amazing. That's my dad's favorite. Dusty was amazing. We even had a wrestling. Yeah, Dusty Rhodes. Rachel, where in texting you from? Dallas.

That's what I thought. Home of this portatorium and W.C. My dad took my mom there on a date and it almost ended there. Wow. Your dad took your mom to Stavon Eric. So the Sportatorium, yeah. My dream in life is like, like I did find a time machine and get to go to like old school smoke filled. I mean, granted, I probably got hiding as a Jew at the Sportatorium in 1983.

But still, that that's my dream. Okay. Flare. Dusty Austin It gets complicated after that for me because a lot of people

would throw out the rock who I really enjoy I don't know if I put them in there and a lot of people put Savage in there Savage is my favorite See but here's the thing about Savage is my favorite 360 180

the cream keeps rising to the top the 360 180 and I turn around again. Do you realize how one guy promo is? It's hilarious. Mean Gene's clearly fucking with him. Mean Gene goes, you turn around 180 and he turns around.

And he's like in another, and a whole 360 and he turns around again. And Savage is now turned completely around. And then mean he goes, and a whole another 180. They're trying to get to turn around again. And he just looks at him. Savage.

Like, Savage is so great, but like his promos weren't sensical. They were just entertaining. Like he wasn't delivering an actual, like I like the guys who like, you know, like right now, I'm going to tell you. And I know I'm not going to convince you to go maybe watch Smackdown this week. Roman Raines right now is doing golden work. Really? He, Roman Reins. I just think he's cute. Oh, listen.

That's what I know. He's a handsome man, 1,000 percent. But he has just become this. this cocky, annoying heel. And he finally, I don't know if it's because of the pandemic, but it happened during the pandemic. They finally pulled the trigger on making him a bad guy, something they never did with John Cena. And it's just, oh, it's such a joy getting to watch someone

who you know is meant to be this guy, get to do it. But let me just stop safely at those three. Okay. I love Rocky. You know what, if you want to round it out, throw in Rocky and Savage. But I think they're all. step down from

Flair, Dusty, Austin. And there are a lot of great people were forgetting, by the way. There's so many. CM Punk, a lot of guys. Is the rock coming back? Because John Cena's back. Is the rock coming back? Yeah, the rock. I don't know this. This is not based on my information, but I'm reading stories online that the rock is

coming back one more time. He'll never go away from. That you could give us that WWE inside school. I do, they do not. I have a lot of great privileges. You know, I eat wonderful catering with superstars. I feel very cool. they do not give me inside information about who's coming back. I just read it like everyone else.

But Rocky will never go away for good. It's in his blood. Yo, did y'all watch his show, by the way, Young Rock? I didn't watch it. I had no interest. Was it good? I love you. It's sneaky, really good.

Okay. And really nostalgic from a wrestling standpoint. Like, they really dig into the wrestling of our childhood. It was sneaky good, Young Rock. It got re-up for a second season. But I love that, dude. He's such a good. a purist, no matter how big he gets,

he always comes back. So we're going to get to your album in a second because I listen to it. There's some dope music on there. But before we go into this, I got a list, I made a list, I made a list of Peter Rosenberg and his beefs that you've had over the past X amount of time. See, this is why I wanted

to come on this podcast. This is why I get booked here because people would work. Because I recently had the same thought too. I actually wrote some down. I was like, how many are there? You've had, well, okay, first of all, the one that actually put you on my radar, I don't know if it's been squash or not, was the Nikki Minaj beef. Okay.

All right, the Nikki Minaj beef. And Nikki Minaj recently sort of validated. So in case you guys. Sort of. Okay. That's like me sort of starting Joe's podcast. So in case you guys don't know what happened. So we're going to go through some of these beefs.

But in case you guys don't know what happened. 2010, 2011, something around here? 2012. Nikki Minaj had the song Starships. You know Starships, right? And she had to song Starships, and it was a pop song, you know, it was, you know, whatever. Rosenberg goes on stage at Hot 97, Hot 97 Subtle Jam. The fucking biggest Jay-Z, you put you on the Summer Jam screen, legendary Summer Jam.

concert in New York. Biggest audience you're going to get live in New York for something like this. And this is Starships. Says, we don't want to hear that bullshit. We don't want to hear that Starships bullshit or something like that to that degree. Is that right?

Pretty much. And this set off ripples throughout the whole fucking hip hop internet. I remember somebody sending me saying, Look how he dissed this, this black queen. He dissed her music. And then Nikki Minaz refused to perform or either that she didn't want to music played it.

She pulled out. She didn't want to perform. And then people were saying that all your money wasn't going to come and fuck with a hot 90s. They pulled up. Right. The whole knot. And it was a big deal so much so to where Nikki had to come up and do a face-to-face interview with Rosenberg on Hot 97. the safari was there

rest and peace of that relationship and they had to talk it out recently Nikki Minaj after Rosenberg took all the flat she dissed the record she just really hard she just they're harder than I did did she say why I didn't see this

she just she literally I read was she literally said every time I hear Starships I'm like ew what is that why did I do that I was like but that's what I and and I get it I wasn't the and that you know what that's it goes back to what I said earlier I'm not always the messenger people want for the message I get it well all I said at the time was that that song was not it for Nikki like she was such an ill rapper and like a lot of people recently

when I when I when I've tried to piss off the barbs by talking about it recently and they're a very easy bunch to stir they all come at me but they're like yeah but you like doja cat and I'm like yeah but doja isn't trying to do something that's not her. She's fucking great at it. Like, let's just be honest. Doja Cat is great at rapping and she's great at pop melodies. Nikki's bag is being a great rapper.

And I'm not trying to limit you. Do whatever the fuck you want. It's just one man's opinion. But that song was not it. That just wasn't it. Like, Moment for Life was basically a pop record. It was fucking great. Yeah.

But Starships was not it. Super Bass was dope too. That was kind of a pop record. Superbase was, I mean, next to fucking Starships. It was perfect. Yeah. You know, so it is funny because I had to really, listen, it ultimately was good for my career in the long run. But I did have to go eat shit and talk to her face.

The interview's out there on YouTube with her just sunning me to my face. Bro, bro, bro, when I say, Nikki Minaj looked at him and Nikki Minaj goes, I didn't know who you were. I never thought you were funny. I never thought you were interesting. I never thought. And this is during the conversation. And then he actually had to come back and go, she kind of did just fucking bury me while we're talking. and she's like, I had no idea

like what you were. So yeah, she was definitely still pissed when she came up there. That was a year later and she just and after that we actually got cool for a long time. I haven't seen her in Dumb Lawn now, but after that we ended up having a relationship and being cool. But man, I had to eat a lot of shit considering

two things. She bounced back and made the most hip-hop album of her career and people say it's the best album of her career. A lot of fans do. I think it is. And then furthermore, now she says she hates the fucking song. So all that ends well. Listen, I stayed at Hot 97. It's fine. But like, yeah. You know, I wouldn't hate a little like, like I said, I don't want to check from Joe Button. I wouldn't mind a quick like, yo, Rosenberg. You were an asshole for what you said. But yeah, you were right. I wouldn't mind that. I would take that. Let me ask you a question. Do you think it was about what you said or where you said it? Listen. Well, both. On the summer jam stage, Rosenberg. Come on, man. Listen, I was the festival stage outside the stadium and I was about to bring out.

Oh. And I was just trying to hype up a crowd that I knew would would feed into that. It was some wrestling shit, honestly. It's like, let's hype this crowd up by dissing some shit that you know this crowd won't like. Right. That's all I was doing. Like, I was playing into the crowd. I was not thinking it was fucking streaming on her website, which it was.

Yeah. I did not know that. She got mad because she knew you were right back then. That's what it was. I mean, listen, Rach, you know what I'm saying? Talk about it. It was a bad. It was a bad place to do it.

And by the way, I understand also why, again, I get why I'm not the messenger. I'm not thinking, I brought this up on drink champs. And Norrie had a good way of saying it. I said a lot of things from privilege early on in my career. But the line between privilege and enough confidence to just make it in hip hop, that's a very blurry line. because to show up and step on pins and needles and be like, I understand I'm not from here. I understand I'm a white man and she's a black woman.

So I need to be mindful with how I approach this. While that is the morally correct thing to do, if that was your approach to shit, I'm never sitting here right now. I'm only here because I had whatever unmitigated gall to get up and just be like, I don't like this. I like that. So it was a weird thing because in one sense you were getting people saying,

I don't fuck with you and who are you. In another sense, you had people going, he's interesting. Who is this guy? So it's a very hard line to learn how to be kind, how to be aware of your privilege, how to be all these things and also be interesting. It's a tough play. Yeah. So talk about the album real quick.

We're not going to get to the rest of these beats because we'll be talking for the next hour. Tell me the ones you listen. No. Let's just tell me which ones you listed. I listed, obviously, one of my closest friends in the world, Charlemagne. Oh, he's a great guy. keep going are you saying are you being are you being ironically i say he's a great guy it's a generic snarky thing to say but i i'm not dissing that he's your friend i know to many people he is a

great guy he has not been that to me but at some point over the last few years i don't know if it was divorce i don't know what it was i just got past um i'm not saying i was like i want to be friends with charlemagne we should all hang out though we have actually hung out before but I just I don't I don't I don't I don't I have no ill will towards the man right and most recently the one that we talked on the phone about was a guy who just started his own podcast DJ academics he probably made more money on me and podcasting since Monday what's your issue with act you guys have or is there an issue now I mean listen I it's I today had a moment I had a moment of realization about academics today, actually.

Interesting. Because Tyler, we interviewed Tyler today. By the time anyone hears this, it'll be out. And we interviewed Tyler, and he was saying, talking about what he does and like what he checks for in the culture. And he was like, I look at academics every day. And the way he was referring to it, it was the way that someone would say I look at TMZ every day. It was like he was saying it like a website. And he at one point talked about not being posted on play.

like that very much, not an angry way, but kind of saying like, where does someone like me fit, right? Right. And the way he talked about me made me realize like it's the same reason I didn't love you at first, man. Yeah. It's it's TMZ. Tm Z. That's academics is TMZ. And that is fine. Right. There's a place for it. But you know what? You know what always got to me? You know what always got me when you guys would do the thing? Because I understand how 97 you guys are pure and you guys are great. And, you know, what always got me is that you guys will report TMZ stories on the air. So my thing about it is do you, and I want everybody out there in media to know this.

This is coming from Van TMZ guy for nine years. When you report a TMZ story, you are TMZ. and there is no way around it. I'll tell you what, TMZ can put stuff up on their website. They don't care about anything that doesn't get picked up. That's the only thing they care about. If people come to the website,

they only care about the fact that how something gets searched in Google, who else is talking about it, where it goes, if CNN has to say TMZ, if Complex has to repost it, if BET has to put it up, your measure of being a producer at TMZ is whether or not the stuff that you do gets picked up

so I would listen to people and you know I have to be the guy I'm not going to defend TMZ but I'm in there trying to make sure they don't go too crazy and I have to listen to people say hey hey hey hey we don't like van because of this and then I hear you guys report the stories I'm like yo if you go play the purity game you got to pick a team

you know what I mean like you you Listen, you, that argument, fair. Fair argument. If it was up to me, we would not have Laura Stahl do a news report once an hour. I hate that shit. I don't like that we do it. I think it's the most generic radio thing in the world. Like, that's not why Laura is on our show.

That's what not why Laura is great on our show. She's great on our show because she's a fucking super real person who shares her personal life and shares her real life and real opinions. and the fact that it's sort of a built-in thing on radio shows that you have the girl do like a gossip report at the top. I fucking hate it. So you are a thousand percent right. I wish we didn't report TMZ stories. The only difference is I don't give a fuck about most of what TMZ reports.

What academics reports on is culture that I actually care about, right? So I'm even more averse to it. Like I'm like, people always have this thing of like, man, you ain't got to like you, but you got to respect it. You know, it gets clicks. It gets money. It's like, do I? Do I? I don't. I respect that he's smart. I will never for one second say that academics is not fucking smart. He is absolutely smart. The thing I'll say about him and Charlemagne, absolutely smart. In fact, I would say in the case of both of them, smarter than me. Unfortunately, for me and my bank is smarter than me. However,

I made a decision about how I was going to do things. And maybe I had to do it this way based on who I am. Because if I had tried to be, although I don't know, they let Adam 22 get away with being like academics and he's white. So I don't know. Because he's basically like in that world too of, you know, he was a guy who I thought once really loved hip hop and it's a lot of gossip and sex and bullshit. But I made a decision to go the purity route of hip hop and culture and what I wanted to. support music wise. I'm not saying I'm completely consistent

1,000% of the time. No one is. I'm not saying I like some shit that's violent or bad or drug whatever. Because it's hard to be pure in hip hop, Peter. Exactly. You can't really be pure.

You're considered a purest in hip hop when you're playing songs that 80 people get killed on. So I have issues. That part is complicated. But when it comes to the purity of the sound of music and not bullshit,

I take you very seriously. I try my hardest. And, you know, not a ton of money. in doing that, not a ton of props in doing that, not a ton of references by fucking the biggest artist in the world in doing that. You know, what you end up getting is a side eye because you like Kendrick Lamar too much.

So is there a little bit of bitterness about when people who decide to really focus in on the bullshit get incredibly successful? I think there is at first. That was my inclination. And in the moments I've had, it's come from professional jealousy, probably financial jealousy, wanted to be hot, wanted my ego to be filled with being hot and being out there and being someone who people want to reference, you know, I'm very honest about that. We don't talk, none of us talk openly about jealousy.

We're all everyone to talk about mental health in this fucking loose way. When we scroll through all three of us have moments of either professional or personal jealousy that we feel because of that shit. And I think that affected me a lot with Charlemagne and academics. And I, in the cases of both, I don't want to make either of them an inherently bad guy because I really don't know them, particularly academics. He's really never done anything to me at all. But when it comes to the things that they have focused on and focused on promoting, a lot of it to me is bullshit. That's it.

Peter Rosenberg, fighting a good fight. Stain pure Like Peter Rosenberg I won't sell out Tell us Tell us about the album Brough tell us about the album It don't matter

It don't matter It don't matter Because when act here it is Act going to light them up On a Twitch stream anyway So like it's going I don't think so I don't think I was

Act only responds when I talk super greasy Oh, he talked super crazy. He didn't say anything. He didn't. I have to come like, yo, act, I want to slap this shit out you. But like, that was so fucking stupid.

I don't know, man. Like, God, as my great teacher called. Do you regret? Do you regret? Do you regret that? It wasn't a threat with physical violence. I said, let's, I said, let's have a boxing match. Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't TNZ me.

Don't harvey me there, okay? All I said was, all I said was, we should have a boxing match. But yes, I regret it's fucking. stupid and but like I guess I don't even know what my angle was you know what that's the thing you look back and you go what was even so angry about like yes I can think

you should is stupid I can think it's not for the culture I can think all those things what do I gain from being personally angry of people it's fucking unattractive and stupid and to be honest I'm 42 years old yeah I feel like Chris Farley I feel like Matt Foley right now I am 42 years old I am divorced

I live in a van down by the river But it's true, like at this, at this age, after things in your life, some things go the way you plan, some things don't. Your perspective does start to change. And I'm regretful for, if we went through that beef list, all of them will have points that I still agree with. And all will have execution that I'm super disappointed in myself. You know, like every one of them I'll say, shouldn't have said that, shouldn't have done it that way. but listen, don't confuse me with the baby. I apologized on nearly every one of those motherfuckers.

And you know what? How about this? I apologize to academics. I'm sorry. I should not have suggested a boxing match because I don't like some of the things you post. That's fucking silly. So look, watch that, watch this to baby.

You just stop. No, but I do want you to talk about the album real quick. Oh, sorry, yes. Because I, you sent it to me a little bit early and I listened to it and if the shit was whack I would have told you I would have been like

hey Peter no but it's good music though so talk a little bit about it listen it's a it is a real hip hop album not to be generic but like it to me it's not a nostalgia piece it's it's artists of today

it's West Side Gunn it's it's Vell the Wonder from L.A. by the way who's incredible she does the intro So it's, you know, Jay Nice and Edo and Crime Apple and all these new underground cats mixed with ghostface and Rayquan and Smoke Dizza and Stiles P and Jim Jones. That's right. Two artists from the big verses this week. And an ill collection of production.

And, you know, I tried to use myself as a conduit to getting young producers who would never get to work with these legends, these beats and getting these legends to be able to hear beats. They wouldn't otherwise get to hear. You know what I'm saying? Like one of the comments I saw when people talk shit is, oh, word, you got these legendary artists on beats. That's really hard to make a good song out of. And I'm like, bro, go through your favorite artist catalog and see how much shit they have that you never even heard or listened to

because it wasn't special. It was throwaway. And this album has no throwaway on it. Like everyone, I gave people shit to come through on. And to their credit, fucking meth, ghost, Jim Jones. To me, they deliver some of their best verses. It really is a, it's a dope body of work. It's called real late.

My girlfriend did the artwork. She's a photographer named Miss Hatton. She took the photo of New York that's on the cover. And it's a real late night New York feeling project. And I'm getting back in the lab to start trying to do number two. Yeah. You told me you were like put it on and ride to it. And that's what I did.

And, you know, you came through with some good music. It's once again, I learned from the Pippa Butterfly, which is an album that I absolutely adore. You and I are in a small club. people who feel that way. A lot of people were scared of that album. Like that album is fucking gorgeous. At first I didn't like it.

I'm not going to lie. It grows on you. I can see that. But like now, I'm about to lie and say it's my favorite Kendrick album. Good Kid Matt City is my favorite Kendrick album. Even if it's not the best, just like that's a masterpiece.

When it hits you first. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. All right, my man. I think we covered it all, Peter Rosenberg. So great to talk to. you. We appreciate you, my man. Hey, how about this? When the world opens up and I'm back in Los Angeles,

I would love to. Wait, Rachel, you went out Los Angeles also? Yeah, yeah, I am. Let's go, let's go get like, you know, douchey drinks at like San Vicente Bungalow or like, let's go to some douchey L.A. place and get drunk. So house. That's great. That's where Van and I first met. The first time Bill took into the San Francisco Bungal. Which so house. No, San Vicente Manglos? Yeah,

The first place we went. In the spot, overpriced drink, average food. I'm there. Great. I agree with my man. Peace, brother.

Thank you so much. Later, guys. This episode is brought to you by Prime. Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories,

and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice. Off campus, Elle, every year. Hereafter, the love hypothesis, Sterling Point, and more. Slow burns, second chances, chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting.

Watch only on Prime. Big fucking problems in Albany. Huge. It's the only way to describe it. Huge fucking problems in Albany. All right. We now have to start referring to Andrew Cuomo as embattled governor, Andrew Cuomo. was in battle before this, but now he's in battle with a capital E.M.

You know, he's, it is a, it is a shit show up there. The attorney general came forward with the findings of an internal investigation that they did, an independent internal investigation they did, into accusations of sexual harassment and sexual misconduct and misconduct and misogyny and all other. icky forms of icky formness grossness against Governor Cuomo that had surfaced some time ago. And basically in a very, very explosive press conference, she said he did it. Basically what she said is that they found that Cuomo had inappropriate contact, made inappropriate statements, had retaliated against women that had brought these statements to light.

and that there was a pattern of toxicity and sexual abuse or the way to put it that went on in the governor's office for as long as he was there and that is what the investigation found that he in fact was the guy that he was accused of me

oh you want me to come in now you want me to comment Jesus Christ Rachel Jesus yeah well normally you're like and Rachel what like your thoughts or you give your opinion I was like, oh, is he done? Is he just, okay, okay.

Mighty is the fall, right? I mean, just last year, people were praising Andrew Cuomo, Governor Cuomo on the way that he handled the pandemic and the outbreak and New York being the epicenter. You had Chelsea Handler saying she wanted a piece of that. You had like everybody, I mean, he was really just exalted. And now here we are. And this isn't the only issue that Governor Cuomo is facing.

Okay, now we're realizing that certain things with the way he handled the coronavirus are also under investigation. But the way that Andrew Cuomo has responded to this investigation and to the Attorney General's press conference is bizarre. It's absurd. And it reminds me of this proverb where they say, pride is the mask of one's own fault. He is a prideful man. He is denying, if you're not following the story, he is denying after a thorough investigation has been done by an outside source, right? An outside firm.

He is denying any of it, all allegations. And I have to tell you, Andrew Cuomo, denying it does not make you seem any less innocent. Oh, actually, we can play a snippet of his response. Yeah, play a snippet of his response. Let's play this because y'all got to hear it. I do it with everyone. Black and white, young and old, straight, and LGBTQ, powerful people, friends, strangers, people who I meet on the street. So that was in response to him being accused of.

non-constitutional touching, making suggestive comments, and creating a hostile work environment for women. He, in that situation, in that response, you can tell that he actually refused to address the nuance of what these accusations are. The fact of the matter is there are women who say, actually, there's a state trooper who is, who made some accusations against the governor. who said that he would rub her stomach. He would run his fingers down her back. There are women that say that he would rub on their butts, grab their butts. There's one woman that says she has a blurry picture of her in Andrew Cuomo because she was so upset with the fact that he had his hand on her butt when they were taking the photo that she was shaking.

Now, I think if you go through and you look at the accusations against him, I don't think that he would say that he is like that with everyone. There is specificity to what people are talking about with him. Not just being huggy, not just being lovey-dovey, not just being, oh, I kiss people on the cheek. No, these women are specifically saying that he was getting his jollies off at their expense. And then using his stature as the governor to enforce that environment. There's no mistaking here. He failed to even address what was really going on.

And the fact that he would sit up there and do that with accusations as serious as these is kind of scary. When you listen to him up there, it's a little bit scary. It's it was a little, it's a little off putting as if it comes across like a sociopath or. Exactly. It's weird, right? It plays to me, he came off even more guilty after you watch. the press conference. The fact that he did a slideshow of showing him kissing his father and his mother on the cheek to justify that that's how he is with everyone, sir, that's not even the allegations

that are against you. It's like he's oblivious to it all. It's almost like, you know what, he's gotten away with it for such a long time. He thinks that he's above it and he can't be touched. And the lack of transparency that he had in that press conference, the fact that he spoke for 15 minutes and did not allow anybody to ask him any questions. Doesn't that seem? Oh, God. No, no, no, you're right. Oh.

You're absolutely right. It seems as if he doesn't want to really be held accountable for what he did or acknowledge that he, that there was any wrongdoing on this part. I read some stuff and saw some stuff today that said, under those circumstances, do the people close to Andrew Cuomo think that he will, in fact, resign? Even though he's been called on to resign by President Joe Biden, by Nancy Pelosi, that they don't think that he is going to resign. He thinks that the voters of New York still believe.

at him and still want him to stay there. Yeah. So everybody's lying on you. That's really what you're saying. Everybody's lying. I mean, it was accusations before. Now there's been a thorough investigation. And it's like his defiance is so alarming.

And let's not also forget the fact that he's victim blaming and he's refusing to take any responsibility for what he's done. He's victim blaming. There was a comment that he made where he said, they read into comments that I made and drew inferences that I never meant. They ascribe to motives I never had. And simply put, they heard things that I just didn't say. Yeah.

I mean, look, there's not much to say. When the garbage needs to get taken out, you can use your left hand or your right hand. Meaning there's garbage on the left. There's garbage on the right. I know that people want to believe that misogyny and, uh, harassment and all of these things, white supremacy, patriarchy,

they only exist on the far right where they seem to be weaponized in order to win elections, right? People want to believe that. We can't say it enough that with power a lot of times comes these things. And this is a bipartisan issue. Protecting women is a bipartisan issue. And so in this situation, I'm interested in how the media will cover this. And you know that there'll be he'll be demonized properly on the right. It's the way it goes.

They're going to use this to score points. And that's fine. This is a win for them. Cuomo let down not just the women that were in that office and put them at risk and put them at play. He like he, when you do something like this, the power, the responsibility that comes with power, you have to be better than this. You have to be better than this. So there are a lot of people that feel let down about what Cuomo did. But the people on the left of this, the CNN's, your own brother, call it what it is.

God's a creep. Creep is the only way to put it. You know what? I didn't like. I didn't like that people were talking about Andrew Cuomo and then they would say, well, the people who want to attack him had nothing to say when Trump was making the comments that he made and the accusation. that are against him. Don't just talk about that.

There's a problem with what Andrew Cuomo did. There's a problem with what Trump did. And the issue is that there is this culture. And I'm so glad that you mentioned the power because what people are doing is they're using their power to prey on these women. And it is inappropriate. And that's what we should be talking about

because that's what needs to stop. It doesn't matter which sides you're on. What matters is we keep hearing these stories of people with power. It keeps happening. They think that they're above it because they've gotten away with it for such a long time. We have to protect people from being preyed on by those with power. It's got to stop. Yeah.

And just to be real with you, just because the cult of Trump rallied around their guy when he had all of these accusations and all of these things, that doesn't mean I'm going to do it. Like, I'm not in this. Yeah, I'm not in anybody's pocket either financially or in terms of politics, politically, ideologically, whatever. Ideology. Ideologically. Why do you say it? Like, Donnie, how do you give me that word? Ah, man.

It's a tongue list here. I'm not going to try. Jesus Christ. Ideologically. Ideologically. Ideologically. Ideologically. Ideologically.

Ideologically. Ideologically. Ideologically. I'm not like, yeah. You know, I'm not in anybody's camp. What I'm trying to do is make sure that people are safe and that they can be seen and do the things that they want to do. So in this case, Andrew Cuomo failed everyone. He filled everyone.

But the people that he failed directly are those women. And those women deserve to be made whole. They deserve to be hurt. And they deserve to have Andrew Cuomo actually be honest. and talk about what went on. And that's not just step down. Go away too. Just go.

Like, go away. He's addicted to the power. Yes, go away. When is this term up? When is this term? How many years has he had left?

We don't know. He's supposed to be coming out. I think there's an election in 2024. Oh, that's, yeah, you got to be wrong about that. I could be wrong about that. 24.

Sean King. Very upsetting. What do you mean? Why are you shaking your head? because it is upsetting. So, so. Because we talked about Sean King last week. We talked about the fact that the New York Post posted a picture of Sean King's house and talked about how much his house was worth, insinuating that Sean King is a grifter that was using the money that people are sending to him for various causes to buy a lavish home in New Jersey.

We talked about the danger of putting somebody like Sean King's home on a publication. people will see the home and then they'll look the place up and then they'll go to Sean King. Well, apparently that's exactly what is happening right now. Sean King is posted on his Instagram that he is moving because strangers are coming by his place

snapping photos and that could lead to crazy, crazy, crazy shit happening. He claims that his wife is the one on the loan for the house that he hasn't used any of his money or any of his whatever to procure the house. and that is not even that lavish of a house.

But now, Jean-Kin says that they are moving. Yes. We thought that this was happening. And yes, and we talked about it, and it is such a shame. But when you talked about crazy things that could happen

because people know their address, never did I think the crazy thing that would happen is what Lee Merritt did. Wow. Is what his friend Lee Merritt did. I'm sorry. I have such an issue with this. You know, we don't, we haven't done a deep dive.

We don't talk about Sean King and all the different things that people say, whichever side you're on. You know, we talked about the problem that was, that is the fact that he's, his business was put on Front Street and now people know his address and have threatened his well-being. But why? Why would you allow your friend to then go on? It's one thing for your friend to have your back.

It's one thing for your friend to speak up on your behalf. It's a whole other thing for your friend to then request money from the public because of how you've been, I guess, what's the word that I'm trying to figure out? Persecute it? Not persecuted, but just they're at a loss because they're having to lose their house. So they're at a disadvantage. Yeah. And so financially, they're losing money. And so Lee Merritt, an attorney, civil rights attorney, is requesting sent the Venmo and the cash app of Sean King's wife for you all to be able to send money to help them out.

Yeah. This plays right into the narrative of where people have something to say negative about Sean King. Yeah. I mean, to be honest with you. And I thought it was so disgusting when I saw it. I'm sorry. If that was my friend, if you did that for me, I'd be like, man, take it down. Take it down.

Hold on. You think it's disgusting or foolish? I think it's disgusting. Why would you say disgusting? I think it's I got an icky feeling when I saw it. I think it is gross. I'm not, listen, we just sat here and defended and, you know, condemned what happened to Sean King with the New York Post. But to ask people for money, for help, because you're at a disadvantage, because you've been,

these people didn't put you in this position. You know what I'm saying? It's one thing if you go after the New York Post. It's another thing if you go after the people who are coming at you, but to ask the public for money, I don't think it's come to that situation. And I just think it's gross that you're sending out your cash app and requesting money from the public because you've been put in an unfortunate situation.

It to me, it's very contradictory to all the other stuff, to what you stand for. It's just gross. I'm sorry, that's the word that I just keep coming. Well, look. It's foolish too. If I was playing devil's advocate, I'd say that this is what I would say. If I was playing devil's advocate, I would say.

Sean King works on behalf of a certain group of people and that if a certain group of people want people like Sean King to work, then sometimes we have to dig in our pockets a little bit to make that happen. Now, wait a minute. If they started a go fund me, that would have been different. If somebody started to go fund me, but your friend did this whole thing and then put their cash apps and VINBals. It's just tacky.

Maybe that's the word I'm looking for. It was tacky. Tacky is a good word. Gross is a good word. Whatever word you want to use is a good word. But I'll tell you this, it definitely plays right into the narrative that we were discussing earlier. And even more so to the fact, I will tell everybody this that's movement in the movement,

movement adjacent and stuff like that. Y'all going to have to play for some shit yourselves. I mean, I'm just being for real. Like, all the work is amazing. And to get the work done, to get the work done, we should all be willing to donate, right? But people struggling around the world that want social justice shouldn't pay for your house. You know what I mean? Like, they don't need to pay for your house.

You know, it's unfortunate what happened to Sean King and to his wife. And it's not just unfortunate. It's unfair. It's not just unfortunate and unfair. It's outrageous that a publication would take their would take their, their home and put a picture of their home in the newspaper basically making them a target for all kinds of crazies around there that's absolutely ridiculous it's terrible

it should be illegal yeah it's like people don't need to buy them a house like it's not it's not it's not like people people don't need to like this is like it and to be honest with you coming on the hills of that to make it look the way it looks it's not an option sure people will and if they do want to do that out of the kindness of their hearts that's fine too. Exactly. Exactly. A little weird. If they, if someone DM'd them and said, hey, I really want to support you. I think this is so wrong. Like, where can I send money? But then it's like, are you going to

be forthcoming with all the money that you received in your Venmo and your cash app? What if you raise a million dollars? More money than that house was worth? Like, what are you going to do? I want to know. I just, I don't, it just, it plays into an already. So you're saying you're saying you telling me you think murky and murky waters which with like when people are when there are a lot of talk about where the money's going and now you're asking for for your to send money in your personal cash up it's it's I don't like it I don't like it that I would tell my friend immediately to take it down and instead Sean King's wife wrote thank you so much for doing this well I mean they probably want to look they're in a situation right now where they probably thinking hey we need the new crib or something

like that you know I'm sure they do but it's just You got the lack of self-awareness is just too much for me. Guess who's back? Guess who's Bzac? Back on the block with the flow. Face Mom, Mac, Men's and Hove. Y'all remember that joint. Amy Cooper's back.

The NYC. Birdwatcher lady. Karen Bird, the bird woman of Alcatraz, the bird woman of Manhattan. You know. What's she back for? She's back. Is she on the right side of things? Is she back because she, you know, is, is, in the fight.

She did a podcast she did a podcast with my man Camel Foster. Shout out Camel. Camel over there doing this thing. What is he coming on? Soon you listen I got to tell you something anybody who wants it with Camel

bring your lunch. It's a smart guy. I bring him I bring him on. You want to go back and forth with Camel? I don't know. It's not about back and forth. You know you've talked about him. He's your guy.

He's my guy. Camel Farms. He's doing his thing. We say we want opposing opinions on the podcast. So come on, Camel. I'm not trying to like prove them, you know, like win a debate or anything. It's just it's conversation. Come on.

We're a welcoming place. You, that I'm telling you right now, I feel the energy. Rache's trying to get it. Rache wants to get it. I can't wait. Rage versus Camel is happening. It's not going to be a Michael Rappaport moment. I'll tell you that.

I didn't handle the Michael Rappaport thing. Well, I went back and listen to it. I got to be better than that. Did you? Did you go back and listen? I did. I didn't think I could. I went back and listen.

I got to be better than I was in the Michael Rappaport podcast. Michael Rappaport just got me. His fucking face was just fucking just got brought the goddamn. He was. He's going back. He's going back there, y'all. He brought the nigger out. And I was, I did not.

I got to be better than that. This is a show for the listeners, not for Van to get his shit off against somebody he disagrees with. So I actually apologize for the way the Michael Rapport interview came off because I got to be better than that. But not, me and Camel talk. we don't agree on very much. We agree on more than what people would think that we agree on. But he had her on the podcast,

on the podcast that they were, it's called Honestly, it's the name of the podcast, which was released Tuesday. He talked to her. I think it's interesting that Kamel talked to her in the first place because who really gives a fuck what she has to say. But,

you know, Camel's doing this thing over there. He wants to talk to people who maybe have a narrative spun about them. Or he thinks that a lot of times we're bullshitting. in the line in the media, so maybe he wants to give what he feels like people are tied to an honest take or whatever. Anyway, she talked about the fact that,

now we should talk about this. Christian Cooper was the man that she was going to call the police on, right? Christian Cooper, black man, he was going to call the police. She had her dog in a place in Central Park where apparently you're not supposed to have a dog and Christian Cooper told her to move the dog. He was off leash. He was off the leash. The dog was off leash.

The dog was off leash. Christian Cooper told her to move the dog. He had treats for the dog to get the dog. dog to leave. She freaked out. She said she's going to call the cops. She used the term African-American. I'm going to tell the cops an African-American man is threatening me as if to weaponize that against him. We've done the whole song and dance. He came back and later on forgave her. This is a what were the whites thinking moment. And it's also a what was Christian Cooper thinking moment. Because she got on this podcast and she doubled down. She said,

I'm thinking, oh my God, is this guy going to lure my dog over there and try to hit him with his bike helmet? And if I end up over there, am I going to get hit with a bike helmet? So in her mind, what she is saying is she thought that Christian Cooper would assault her dog or beat her up with a bike helmet because he had treats in one hand, a bike helmet in the other hand. She, of course, was charged with filing a false police report. the charges were dismissed. She completed an educational program, blah, blah, blah. And now she is, some program. Now she is suing her former employer.

Huh. Is it reasonable for her to have thought? No. Based upon the video that you saw that he was going to assault her with her bike helmet. No. Those are her pre. First of all, we will see and hear from Amy again. Because it looks like she didn't learn anything in that educational class.

I don't know who was teaching it. I don't know if she ever really took it. But she clearly hasn't learned her lesson. She, when she saw him, all her preconceived notions, her stereotypes, her bias towards black men came over her. And that's what she saw instead of Christian Cooper bird watching in the park. Why couldn't a man, as a dog owner, and you know this, people are super friendly with dogs. They always like, can I give your dog a treat? Can I pet your dog?

That is normal. he's in a park. Why would he not have a bike helmet? It wasn't a gun. It wasn't a knife. It wasn't, you know what I mean? It wasn't even mace. It's a bike helmet.

Well, that's not why he had the treats, though. He pulled the treats out to lure the dog out of the place that it shouldn't have been. The people that go bird watching. Yeah, so that's why they bring the treats. People give treats to dogs all the time, whether you think that's right or wrong.

It happens all the time. You mean tell me just people walk around with treats in their pockets to give it a random dogs? Yes. Yes. I've seen it. You can't give a bows with no treats. Yes. Especially, especially, like if they're in a park or maybe like a place where dogs, dogs are. I've seen it. I've seen anyways. Listen, we all know the story. That woman won threatened. That woman feels a certain way about black man. If that was a white man in the same situation, she never would have had those thoughts and feelings. She never would have felt threatened. We will. Mark my word. We will hear from Amy Cooper again. Can we talk about the fact that she felt threatened by a nigger bird watching? Because she didn't see him bird watching. She just saw a black man. But this niggas around Central Park with dog treats in his pocket watching birds.

I could understand if she rolled up on three guys and they were in Central Park cooking crack by the campfire. You know, they're down there cooking up crack. He's like, yo, you want to hit of this? She's like, no, let me see your dog. And then that might be a reason you call the police, right? Those guys are, are intimidating. You know, maybe if you rolled up on guys and there was a rap cypher and they're talking that shit, oh, oh, oh, I put three in your motherfucking dome.

Oh, yeah. Oh, oh, oh, some shit like that. Maybe that's a reason for the, you know, maybe that's a reason, because maybe even I would be like, yo, maybe I'm going around. These dudes seem to be a little amped up. They raping. But if niggas can't even bird watch, like, what, is there a more non-threatening thing that you can do than birdwatch?

Yes, just be black. Obviously not. Obviously, I would just being black. I would think they're bird watching because if I see some people in their bird watching, like I automatically look at them

as like very nice, asexual people. Because I can't think of anybody bird watching and then going home and fucking. But like, we learned bird watching after the fact. She didn't know that's what he was doing. She just saw a man by himself in the park, a black man by himself in the park.

I don't think that's right because he told, because he was talking to her about why her dog shouldn't be over there. She didn't believe him. Wait. Like, you're trying to make it make sense. I'm not trying to make it sense. Amy probably didn't believe him. Oh, okay, sure. Yeah, this black man's in the park

watching, watching birds. He's probably waiting to, like, you know, give drugs to somebody or something. That's probably what she thought. You have to go into the mind of a racist here. Yeah. What I'm saying is that for me, even if I thought that there was a threat,

even if somebody had the wherewithal to make up the excuse that they were burrow watching, I wouldn't be threatened with it by them anymore. Because she was already judging this man from the moment she saw him. He never stood a chance. He never stood a chance. Let's see how swole Christian. Because he was kind of swollen too, right? No, no. Stop trying to make things. It reasoning. for aiding. I'm not trying to

I'm not trying to reason it for Amy. What I'm saying is that maybe she thought that he was with a bird watcher because he was too swell. You hear this copper? Maybe So so

guys with muscles can't watch birds. It's tough. It's tough. He ain't that's well. Nah, this nigga definitely looks like a bird watcher. Are you fucking kidding me?

Look at this guy. First of all, first of all, look. He got, binoculars. He got a bandana. He got a special helmet. He definitely looks like a brother-wilder.

She probably thought he was a lookout. Wait. A lookout for a judge. You got to go into Amy's mind. He never stood a chance. He was always up to no good in that part. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, look, here's a deal. I would like to interview Amy Cooper. I would like to get her on here. I just like what. I only want to know what she learned in the class. That's all I want to know. How come you never want to know? How come you never want to talk to these people, Rachel?

Because it's a waste of time. No, it's not. How do you know that? Did you not learn anything from MLK the third? He said you've got to talk to these people. Because he was trying to accomplish something. Okay. It's one thing if he was talking to Lady G, I almost said that in the interview.

I almost said that and I was like, Lindsay Graham, do not say Lady G. Yeah. It's one thing if you're trying to. get something passed. What's Amy Cooper going to do? Maybe maybe you can save the next guy the black guy that's burrow watching

from getting the wrath of Amy Cooper. I appreciate your optimism. I'm not. I really don't give you. I just want to talk to her. I know you don't. I know you talk to her. I just want to talk to her like you know we can bird watch right. We can burr watch if we want. Camel, we got to get you on the podcast.

This is an open invitation for Camel Foster to come on to the podcast. Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not at Amy. All right, look,

it's not for Melbaugh. It's, uh, let's go. What were the whites thinking, Amy Cooper? You know what you did. Oh,

I once say, oh, before we get off that. Remember when Christian Cooper came back and he said, hey, I feel like she's been through enough and time to let it go and that whole deal? See what happens?

See what happens? Yeah. That wouldn't have been us. See what happens? That's what happens. She gets back on there with Camel. Now she's talking shit. Oh my God, is this guy going to hit me with a bike helmet?

Oh, my God, is this guy going to hit my dog with a bike helmet? You know what I mean? See what I'm talking shit. All right, Christian. Be careful. Watch your birds. Next person come up, stick him in the thigh. Could you stab somebody in the thigh for accosting you?

Was that be self-defense? You're a lawyer. Let's say she'll ran over to him. If it's self-defense, what does it matter? Why can you do it in the thigh? So, well, you want to stab him in the thigh, right? You want to stab him in the outside of the thigh away from the femuror. artery just to like make them get off you.

You don't want to kill nobody. Okay, nobody's thing. You're not thinking about that. If I feel like my life is in danger and threatened, I'm not. You're going straight for the flow? I got to defend. No, I'm just trying to get away. I'm just trying to live.

You, so you're going to tell me you don't think about the damage that you could do. You don't think about, let me. I don't even know where that artery is in the thigh. Okay, the only thing I know about stabbing somebody in the thigh is what I learned in face off. Face off. Do you remember that? What's face off?

She told him to. The movie. Oh, yeah. He said stab it and twist it. So the world won't close. So the world won't close. So the world won't close. All right.

End up killing somebody. That's a moral artery. That's the fuck out. Don't mess with me. We got to talk more about your impulse control. Because you like to, you, you go. I've yet to stab somebody. Yeah, but have you ever been.

Is it bad that I just said yet? Is it bad that I said yet? See what I'm saying? That's what I just said. Have you been in this situation yet where a stabbing was warranted? No. Thankfully, I have not. not. Thankfully, I haven't.

All right, let's go to Mailback. Fuck it. Run the song. It's Mailback time. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Mailback time. Time to read your letters and then we'll reply to them. Oh, it's mailback time. Write us with your queries and we'll chime in. From Rachel Valerius, what quality of yourselves would you want to pass one to a potential future child? Curiosity. Obviously, my charm. Your car.

That's a good one. No, I would say ambition, to be honest, ambition. Yeah, curiosity. Like, just the, the curiosity is the whole deal. It's like, just I want to know things. and me wanted to know things has just meant so much in my life. It's put a lot of different stuff in it.

So just the curiosity. Maybe a little bit more focused with the curiosity. Maybe it would be focused. It's been a little bit less time on Wikipedia, but the curiosity for sure. All right, next question. Come on. Go, go, go.

All right, from Kirsten Scruggs. What's a reoccurring dream or nightmare that you've had? Ooh. Two. Okay. I dream about tornadoes a lot. Like a lot. Right.

And I've never been like caught up in a tornado, but I'm always running away from them. And I remember one time there was tornado and I ran into a church for refuge. And the tornado picked the church up and I held on to a church pew. And the tornado, the church went from Dallas to Houston. Okay? And it landed and I got there safely. And I took that to me. my life is chaotic here in Dallas.

And what's going to calm it down is if I moved to Houston. And currently I was in a long-distance relationship with Dallas and Houston. I took that as a sign that maybe I need to move to Houston to be careful in this relationship. But I dream, I never, I mean. That's not what that dream went meant at all. Oh, come on. Come on, Joseph. Tell me what the dream meant.

That dream meant that no matter what chaos is in your life, as long as you stay inside of God, you'll be okay. No, no, no, no. I said that part too. No, when I was telling somebody this too, I said, I forgot that part. No, like, I held on to that. But I also took it to me, like, trust me, lean on me.

But like, things will calm down for you when you move to Houston. Right. That, I took that. But I dream about tornadoes a lot, and I also dream about the end of the world. Yeah. I have these really, like, crazy dreams about, and I'm always with my dad. And it's a two of us fighting. And we're like to talk about it.

I don't want to talk about it. No. You're not going to sit by anxiety. Any rude, y'all? You're not going to set my anxiety. No, I can't do it. No, it's just always running and fighting. And it's always different.

It's always, okay, go, go, go. He took off his headphones, y'all. I don't want to talk about the end of the world. No, I'll be, like, you. I'm sorry about that. I'm sorry for jumping in. No, and I dream about it a lot. No, no, no, you're fine.

I don't want to talk about it. I'm not going to talk about it. I'm not going to talk about it. But it's weird to me that I dream about that a lot. But go ahead, go ahead, a lot. Your turn? My shit is wrong now. I'm going to be reading the book of revelations and watching Jack Vanity.

You've been left behind. Oh, left behind. Oh, my God. I hate thinking about that shit, bro. It's terrible. I'm sorry for God. I am sorry for cutting you off. You know what I would always dream about.

And I'd have this dream, this reoccurring dream that I, like, didn't have a career. that I was just graduating high school and that there was nothing. And like I didn't know how I was going to get it. I didn't know what I was going to do. I didn't know where anything anything was coming from. It's like I don't have anything.

And it's this fear that I feel inside of the dream, this anxiety that I feel inside of a dream, like, what are you going to do? What are you going to do? What are you going to do? Like I've lost everything. And I have that dream all the time. Yeah.

And then I'll wake up. And just when I'm waking up, I'll be like, you know, I got a job been like a decent life and all of that stuff. Do you look over at the Oscar? That's what I would do. No, the Oscars in the other room. But like, but I like, but I think, I think that dream comes back all the time.

And then there's this other dream and it's so real. It's so real. And the dream is that I played like six games for the Lakers. Okay. I swear to God. Next question. What position? I want to.

Did you start? It's like, who was on the team? Which era of the Lakers? It's almost as if, it's almost as if I'm playing in a future where like either the NBA is not that big of a deal anymore because we're playing for the Lakers. I'm playing for the Lakers, but we're playing in like a smaller gym. But it's the Lakers. So you're playing pickup.

And all these celebrities are there. It's the Lakers. It's the Lakers. And they got like, those are called celebrity games. I'm telling you. I'm telling you. I have this dream all the time. It's like, yeah, I was able to score 11 points.

Anyway, whatever. Go ahead. Next one. From John Denny, you have to make one person, leader of the free world. Who do you choose and why? Not you, John. Because if we make you the leader of the free world, John, we're not going to be able to come in the restaurants and eat.

I know that your family created Denny's. I know that in the back of your legacy. John, there is a whole situation about not letting black people come in restaurants and eats. We know what Denny's does. I can't believe that a Denny's legacy, that John Denny, a Denny's legacy, will call us up and have the fucking unmitigated gall to ask a question to Afro-Americans. We're not even African-Americans anymore. We're going back to the 70s. We're Afro-Americans.

Denny. Denny going to ask me who are. Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why do you want to know who we would put in charge? Why? Why? So you can like, so they can't come in and have a grand slam? Is that why? Don't, I'm not answering the question. He just asked a simple question. I'm not talking to the Denny's people. No. Be careful, John. John Denny. All right. From Vanessa in, if a relative visits you for the first time, where would you take them in the city? We're talking Los Angeles, I assume. Yeah, they just said the city, so let's go L.A. Okay.

I would take them on a hike. Oh, interesting. Mount L. One, because of where most of my relatives come from, there are no mountains. And I understand why people really like hiking out here. So I would take them on a hike so they could see, they could go up in the mountains. They could see L.A., the ocean, the city, nature. It's so peaceful.

I would do it first thing in the morning as the sun is coming up just so they could connect to the city but then also to nature. It's just something that if you're not from here, you probably never really had it and it's something that I really appreciate living out here.

So that's what I would do. Heights are nice. LA is beautiful. I would take them to the sunset strip. This cruise up and down the strip, drive a little bit through West Hollywood to the strip. You know, they get to see all kinds of stuff

They see these, you know, you get your little head movement going like that. Like the classic stuff, the people singing like the rock songs. Is that the kind of thing? Like the bifera room, the girls, girls, girls. All of that stuff. We're doing like this, you know, we're reviving. They're seeing big billboards, Chateau Mar-Mall, all of that stuff. If you're going to do LA, you do LA, right?

That's why I do. Like, just you go to the Sunset Strip is what I would do. That's why I would take it to the Sunset Strip. Either I would take them to the Sunset Strip, I would not take them anyway. Anyway, I say, look, here's the rental car. Carry ass around, drive around, man. I don't have time for it.

Oh, either that. They can come with me. Either that or maybe Hollywood Boulevard. But not during peak hours. Hollywood Boulevard when like it's like there's not a lot of people around. You have to. Yes. Have to.

It's a one time. It's the first place I went actually when I came to L.A. for the first time was to Hollywood Boulevard. I had to find Michael Jackson Star. Yeah, yeah. That's what I wanted to see. There's two Michael Jackson's star, though. Did you go to the right one?

I have to go back and look at the picture. Which one did you go to? There's some random guy who has Michael Jackson star. It's like over on Vine somewhere. But like it's two Michael Jackson's. No, I was on Hollywood Boulevard. Okay, so his is right, the right Michael Jackson was right in front of the Grombechonnes Theater, like right around. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Like I got on the ground. Now that I think about it, it's disgusting. Disgusting. Disgusting. Disgusting. Disgusting to touch the ground on Hollywood Boulevard.

I see people do it all the time. I walk by them and I'm like, oh, you're touching the ground on Hollywood Boulevard. You must want a little case of the hep-heap. You want a little, you want a little hep? That's the way you get that heppy. You get a heppa. Are you okay?

You know, it's like, is. Is that copper? You know why he's about to throw up? Because he heard that you got on the Brown of Hollywood Boulevard. And he's like, he's like, does my mom have elementary school hep ABC where you learn your ABCs? Stop. Don't start those rumors. Okay now.

Okay now. All right. That's it. No more mailbag. Denny, I can't believe you. I can't believe you, John Denny. Don't you ever in your life think that you can send stuff to this. And we're just going to forget about, let's look it up.

Let's look up all the stuff right now that Denny's has done to black people. Stop, stop. It's time. Okay, we're in. No, we're not. We don't have time for this. This is the longest podcast ever. Before we go out, I want to say, we want to say congratulations to Donnie Beacham Jr.

Who's getting married this weekend. Yay, congratulations, Donnie. Donnie. I appreciate it. We love you, bro. You're getting married. Where are you guys going for the honeymoon? We're driving to New Orleans for a chill.

Donnie. Donnie. Yes. Fucking check the COVID numbers. Are you fucking insane? No way. We're not doing anything crazy. We're just, we're chilling.

Like, we're both vaccinated. Yeah, it definitely is, especially in Louisiana. Hell yeah. It's like one of the worst places in the country right now, Donnie. Yeah, yeah. We're not doing that the whole Bourbon Street thing. We're going to be like mostly in our hotel room, eating food. All right.

Well, you're going to have some good food. Congratulations. May 24th. May 24th, 19904. Denny's paid a $454 million raised buyers lawsuit. Can't believe. Yeah. You didn't know this?

This is true. This is true. In August 14, 2018, Denny's can't escape his racist past. And this guy's going to ask us a question on the mailbag. Send me a DM, John Dealey. I don't want to talk to you. All right. Look, look, in 2017,

black dinners at Denny's force to pay bills before being served. They make us pay the bills before the food comes out of Denny's, and this guy's fucking asking us about all kinds of stuff on the podcast. Whatever. All right. Unexpected out of the week, you got one? No. I didn't even think about it.

Sorry. I'm sorry. No, Unrespected ally out of the week is not something that happens every week. You guys already know. I don't have one either. I don't have one either. I don't. I'm insinced and I'm enraged by a couple of things that have happened on this podcast.

We're going to let him go. Our producer's name is Donnie Beecham. Trudy Joseph is our social producer. She is somewhere right now dealing with things going on to her family. Trudy, we love you. We support you. We can't wait to have you back. I am Van Laithin, Jr.

Tell you think heaps off, but do not stop learning. I'm Rachel. Lindsay. Bye you guys. We are out. I thought you were going to say something else.