Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Crockett Not Supporting Talarico? Plus, Estelle on the Art of Being a Humble Star

Episode Date: June 23, 2026

Van and Rachel react to questions about Representative Jasmine Crockett’s support of her former opponent James Talarico before Van makes a connection between geopolitics and ‘The Wire.’ They also hit a couple of sports topics and SZA’s anti-AI stance before the multi-hyphenate Estelle joins the show. (0:00) Intro (13:11) Jasmine Crockett, James Talarico, and party unity (35:10) The Iran conflict and ‘The Wire’ (1:01:19) Bill Maher and the Obama Presidential Library (1:16:32) New York Knicks headed to the White House (1:26:13) Wholesome World Cup content (1:33:48) SZA and the dangers of AI (1:45:27) Estelle joins the show Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Estelle Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Jade Whaley Social Producer: Bernard Moore Video Supervision: Chris Thomas Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Higher Learning is on. Is Ivan Lathan Jr.? And it's me, Rachel, and Lindsay. I haven't really checked the way this looks. Yeah, I've tried to tell you about it when I saw you in the hall. Can we get a zoom in on Vance Hat just so everybody knows?

It doesn't say what they think it says. What does it say? A red hat with white riding. From a distance, I will walk across the other side of the street. Oh, that's right. Hey, I didn't even think about that when the guy gave me the hat. It's the only thing I think of when I see red hats now. So I was driving into work this morning.

I was driving down Melrose. And I saw a gentleman and he set up, I was driving up. And I saw he had set up, he was recording and he had a microphone. And he had a hat company. The hat company was because it's I have W. And it says, I am forever with you. And I was like, that's a great message. I talked him for a second.

He's like, yeah, I know you, whatever, whatever. And I was like, yeah, man, give me a hat. I'll support you. I'll wear it on the show. And so he gave me the hat. But I didn't even think about it. Does it come in other colors? I think that it comes in other colors.

Okay, great. As we're advertising for him, it does come in other colors so people can get it. I don't want them to think that that's the only option. So funny, we come into work two different ways. You came into work and had time to stop and have a conversation with someone. Because I get here an hour and a half early. And I only have time to get here.

Right. I only have time to get here. Yeah, I get here early. I get here early. I get here. I wake up early. I'm up super early, but I like to enjoy my morning. 15 minutes, get to the office.

I'm a single mom who works two jobs. I got a lot to do in the morning by myself. But how was your Juneteenth weekend? It was phenomenal. We all, we parted together and you didn't come. Y'all did? I said when you announced it, I was like, I don't know if I'm going to be able to make it. Also, Kalika did not provide me a time?

I texted her. I said, did you give me a time? These are so, okay, let me ask you question. I bet you went and did some fancy shit. I did not till late at night. I actually did nothing. I canceled my whole day. I didn't work.

I was going to do a meeting. The only thing I did is get my lashes done. I just wanted to enjoy the day and do nothing. But I'm mad I miss the Lackma block party. I really wanted to go to that. And I found out about it too late. You're mad you missed the Lackma block party. I was there.

So you're mad you missed the Lackma block party, but not hanging out with the Midnight Boys and Jade and KJ and St. The Lackma party was on Saturday, so it didn't conflict. I wish I would have known about. It was just a block party that was at LACMA. They had food, they had drinks. You could see the museums.

Can I say something real quick? Activations. It was nice. That does sound awesome, actually. Saturday, I slept in all day because we went to the Dodger game that night. Can I say something real quick? I don't know if the glasses really worked with this hat. I'm just, this hat is like, shout out to, I will shout out to my people. I'm wearing a hat, though, I told them.

So I realized something, and I think it's an interesting observation. It's not really an interesting observation, so it probably shouldn't be said on the podcast. But like, I grew up in a city where there were no activations and stuff. Yeah. That's different. I feel like American life can be broken down now to whether or not you live in an activation city or non-activation city. See, I'm driving down the street in Los Angeles. And every time I'm driving down a block, it's like, come to the American Express

Super Lounge for this or fucking somebody else. This is a pop-up this and everybody is. We're giving out this. It's like activations everywhere. It's all kinds of activations. This presented by fucking Sprite. And oh, it's the Sprite SummerSlam tour. Come say here, you go there and you go and stuff happening.

Batonuja doesn't have none of that. Most cities don't have any of that. That's what I'm saying, though. We live in L.A. But Dallas, I bet Dallas has some of it. Not like that. Baton Rouge has none of that. Like the only thing, the only type of activations they have Baton Rouge

was they was trying to get kids hooked on credit cards at the different schools and stuff like that. That happens at every college. But like Baton Rouge, you never go drive down the street in Baton Rouge and see like Amazon put something on. No, most cities, you're not going to see that. I'm sorry, man. I travel around.

So these are the activation cities to me right now. Cities were L.A., New York. Miami is very competitive in activations. All right. But I was in Boston, and I saw a bunch of activations, man. I saw a bunch of activations in Boston. What were you there for, though?

Was it an event? It wasn't for an event. But I was in Boston, and I saw people in the Boston Commons. Around the Boston Commons, there was different stuff. People set up. They care about Boston.

So, L.A., so I have to count Boston. Okay. So L.A., New York, San Francisco. Hell of Activation. San Francisco has a lot going on. Activation cities. What I don't know is about Texas. I don't know of Houston and Dallas and places like that.

They have activation, different activations. New Orleans, no activations normally, but then the Super Bowl comes. Essence Festival. Essence Festival, crazy activations. All of that stuff. Activations around. I also went to see Chance the Rapper at the Hollywood Bowl on Juneteen. You did that, huh?

That was midnight. up the chance. I did. It was a great show. He brought out who BJ the Chicago Kid who I just love. I haven't heard from him in a while what he's been up to? He had an album like a year two ago, I think.

And who else? Guapoli brought out so good. Gwapley is it Gwapley or Guapelais? I appreciate it's Guapelay. Oh, I said guapolet. It doesn't matter. Beautiful one and beautiful voice. Yes. Vic Minza opened it up, D-Nice.

Did they do? They do... Did Vic and Chance? They didn't do Cocoa Butter Kisses. Oh, Cocoa Bitter Kisses. No. At least I missed Vic. Sorry, Vic.

I didn't get there on time. But unless they did it before, but they didn't do it during Chance's set. So that was like my Juneteenth, something I did for Juneteenth, which was a great celebration. I enjoyed it. I'm a big chance of the rapper fan.

And then Saturday, all y'all need to go try out this place. We're really getting places starting to pop up in the valley. Black-owned, it's called brunch and sip lounge. They only serve brunch every day of the week. And when I say brunch, I'm talking, I'm so particular about catfish. It's some of the best catfish I've ever tasted.

You wouldn't know if catfish was good. I'm not even going to entertain that. Shrimp and grits. They had black and salmon and shrimp. They had lamb chops. It's called brunch and sip lounge, black-owned husband and wife. First one.

It is. They're about to be the new turkey lane hood. First one is in Arizona, Scottsdale, I believe, and this one is in Studio City, and it was, it was great. It is so good.

Vives are good, got a DJ, upstairs downstairs. I see a lot of watts in these videos. It was all black. Okay. No, I'll go here.

This looks great. Only brunch. It's fantastic. Only brunch. So what time, so is brunch all day or is it just brunch time? I'll support that. I'm not sure. I think it closes at three.

Hey, man. Hey, look, you know what? Not this Sunday because I think I'm going to be in New York. But next Sunday, hire learning meetup at brunch and sip. I'm going to be out of town. You're going to be going. Okay.

Do we, should we go on Saturday to brunch and sip? I'm going to be out of town that weekend. You're going to hold. It's 4th of July weekend. I'm going on. Oh, wait, so I can't do that thing either. We shouldn't do that. Correct.

Should we go to Brush and Sips Saturday? I'm down. Okay, let's go to Brush and Sip Saturday. I have a standing reservation already. I'll just expand it. Let's go over there. They got, um, First Clash and Petty Cash.

They got a Hugo Spritz. That's what I'm on. Yeah, they got, they have like a little Spritz section. I thought about you when I saw the Hugo Sprits. It's so good. And they open all day. So I did that the weekend for the weekend too. And it just opened.

Now, at Brush and Simpson, is this a situation where we, you know, have to have people pat it down before they come in? No. Because I'm with that. Why would that be the case? Why would that be your question? Frisk them. Why?

How many restaurants do you go to and that happens? Frisk them. I want to know what you got on you. The hat is having a, the hat is having an effect on you. Y'all don't think that's funny when people are getting frist and they're like, hey, you got anything on you? Are you putting a tea on it? Are you putting a tea on it?

Frisked. Frisked? What is it? It's frisked. Frisked. It's frisked. You sound like you're saying frisked. Is it?

But you frisked them. Yeah, I'm just, at this point in my life, at this point in my life, no, I'm, you know, just pat him down. Because, like, it's, I was taught, let me tell you why. Just, just, just, just. Please explain. Let me tell you why. because I was on the phone with Ryan. I was on the phone with Ryan.

And Ryan was, Ryan and his wife were going to a dackery shop in Austin. Ryan and his wife was going to a dacry shop in Austin. They, uh, shout out to Kita. Shout out to LaSanta Jones, the greatest cheerleader in McKinley High History. Ryan married her because that's how we do. They were going to a dackery shop.

And he was telling me all about this dacery shop that they were going to either in Flugerville or like right outside of Flugerville or something like that. And he was like, yo, you know, at this Dacqueray shop, they got popping out too long ago. Someone got killed outside of the Dacritory Shop, they got shot. In Flugerville?

Yeah, it's like, apparently it's going down in Austin or like Ryan said Austin be trying to get, Austin lid, he was like, Austin be trying to get a little ratchet. I didn't notice about Austin. So I was just thinking about the fact that, Once again, going back to Baton Rouge, you know, you would go places in Baton Rouge and the places that you would go to party

or to have drinks or whatever, you know, every once in a while, somebody will be killed there. Sometimes more than every, like you, you know that if you go to Deep Ellum, you should catch it on the right. Of course. The headlines you see from Deep Ellum is like, Deep Ellum nightlife, five dead.

You know what I mean? So I was thinking to myself, that's something that I don't really experience that much anymore with going to a place and it getting popping right outside the place and stuff like that. You know, the guns in LA different

and stuff like that. But I am down just so that I don't have to mix my daquery loving with murder, risk them. I asked Ryan, I said, would you be mad if you walking into this daffery spot with your wife if they frisked you before you went in there? It's like, what you got on you?

Are you okay? we're just getting started it's feeling unkish what is wrong that's not funny just patting somebody down no what you got on you

got anything on you okay I'm sorry Jade do you find it funny I'm so cute it's only funny to me I get it I don't know why it's funny like what's like why are you asking he's not going to tell you if he's got something on them

right that's the purpose of the first is to find it. I'm sorry, guys. I apologize. Should we get to the show? Should we get to the show? Should we get to the show? I'm nervous for the show.

Are you? Yeah, I think we all are. What do you want to start with first? Maybe not something serious. Yeah, because of all the talk about frisking and all of those different situations and stuff like that. Maybe we won't want to start.

What do you want? You start, Rachel's choice. Well, we have an interview at the end of this podcast. We have a stel. to do it at the beginning. Estelle is joining us. She's going to be on this pod today. I love Estelle.

I like her too. I really enjoyed having her on. Great energy. Great spirit. Like you can feel it from the moment she walked in. Very calming presence. It speaks to her music. It speaks to her music, speaks to her

long-standing. Place in the career. Yes, yes, yes. To be around for a very, very long time, entertaining us and giving us something to think about. And being a good, member of the community. All right, so let's start with, I guess,

let's start with Jasmine Crockett. Is that a, that's serious, but go ahead. Is that serious? I mean, look, let's- Donnie, go ahead. Let's start with Jackson. He's still a little less serious in Iran, I think. Yeah.

According to the Dallas Morning News, Texas rep Jasmine Crockett, who lost the Senate primary to James Tolarico this March, says that she does not plan to attend the upcoming state convention and instead is focusing on helping down-ballot candidates across the country. Procket also said that she's not sure whether black voters have united fully behind Talleyco and the rest of the ticket. She said that the lack of a black nominee for major statewide office could dampen enthusiasm among voters. Reminder that Talleyco is facing

off against Republican Ken Paxson in November. When she was asked if she would actively campaign for or with Tala Rico, she reportedly said, quote, I have no idea. I'm more focused on down-ballot races in general. Now she also did speak about being the focus of so much attention despite no longer being a candidate in this race. Let's hear from Jasmine. Stop giving MAGA exactly what they want. Because while there is, you know, this, I don't even know what's a call packs then, okay? I have a lot of thoughts and a lot of names for him. But he's their candidate. But y'all are still so focused on me. Bro, like, I'm not running. I'm not running.

I'm not running. I'm not running. Okay. So, like, focus on the people that are in the race. So if you have this urge to be like, oh, Jasmine, this, Jasmine, that, maybe use that energy towards Kempax than this, Kempax than that. Because last time I checked how much I ended up being a part of the conversation, there is one person that is guaranteed not to become the next senator in the state of Texas.

And that's Jasmine, Felicia Crockett. So like, why even expend your energy? So this is taking social media by storm, at least threats. Oh, oh, this is big on threads. I'm sorry, I haven't been on threads as much, so I don't, I don't know. The discourse that is happening right now on threads. It's a little shocking to me because mainly what I'm seeing are, now there was a post up that was like highly inappropriate

and was criticizing Jasmine Crockett personally for not supporting Tala Rico or going to the Texas Democratic Convention, which is this coming up weekend, and they took it back, but they were dead wrong. Like they personally attacked her, talking about not supporting her. Like, it made no sense. It was clearly a personal attack. Outside of that, there are a number of people, particularly black women that I'm seeing, that are fiercely basically saying, why does Jasmine Talarico have to support?

I'm sorry. They got married? That would be something that would really be unifying for Texas if they were to get married. Unity is the key, though, to this whole conversation. But why would they're like, why would Jasmine Tala... You want them to get married. Yeah, see? Am I okay?

See, this is what happens when you start getting that, people. Am I okay? You get that. Fair. They're saying, why should Jasmine Crockett support James Talarico? She lost the primary. It's not her duty. to support him.

Why are people making it a black woman's responsibility to campaign for him? She doesn't have any right to do that. There's a lot of that kind of conversation going on and I am just shocked by it all because, and this is the main thing. I don't think people are coming just Jasmine, coming, I'll say it again,

coming to Jasmine Crockett saying, oh, you're a Democrat in Texas, you have a big platform, you were able to rally majority, well over majority of black votes to vote for you in the primary. You need to get on board and support James Tolariko. I don't think that that's just what's happening. What it is is what Jasmine Crockett said when she conceded and right after the primary ended in March, right after she lost, Jasmine Crockett said, with the primary behind us, Democrats must rally around our nominee.

and win. I'm committed to doing my part and will continue working to elect Democrats up and down the ballot. To me, it is just holding Jasmine Crockett to the very statement that she said, which I think it was the right one. The goal is to turn Texas blue. The goal is to unify. I understand people being upset that they voted for Jasmine Crockett and Jasmine Crockett did not win. I understand them being upset that the narrative was a black woman is not able to win in Texas and they felt like that was used against Jasmine Crockett. I get that. But then to say Jasmine Crockett has no duty or to Jasmine Crockett to even put, she doesn't have a duty, but these are her words. This is what she said we should do. And then for Jasmine Crockett to put up this

video of like, why are y'all talking about me? Why are y'all making it about me? Well, it's not necessarily that. It's about unifying to come together because for the first time in 31 years, it seems that Texas could actually turn blue. And even more so, the unifying message was important because she's running against Ken Paxton, who we know is awful for a number of reasons, but they're not even rallying the base to support him, the Republicans. John Cornyn is flat out said, I'm not supporting him.

So that was another thing to help the Democrats possibly win in this election if the Republicans are split when it comes to who they're going to vote for or support when it comes to who's going to get that Senate seat. So to me, I just don't understand why we're making this, taking it back to the same argument that we were having in the primaries, when Jasmine Crockett has called for unity and said that she would rally behind it. Why now when asked, are you going to support James Talarico? Okay, maybe she doesn't go to the convention, fine.

But when asked, are you going to support him, your words are, I have no idea. that thing it makes it is I'm sorry it's hypocrisy and it contradicts your your statement from before I'm very serious about this because I'm very passionate about being from Texas about Texas having the opportunity to turn blue and I think that I'm not saying

not be upset like I said before but I think that we need to come together and unify and not say well it's not a black woman's responsibility it's not but Jasmine Crockett herself said that this is what we should do and I'm just not understanding the switch up. I'm not going to accuse her like other people are of being bitter or salty. I'm just trying to understand why is there a change up now and why are you not saying we should support the Democrat in the race. It'd be different if when Jasmine Crockett came out

when she after she lost the race, she said flat out, I'm not supporting James. I don't think he would be a good senator. This is why, but it's up to you. That's not what she said. So I, There is all this back and forth on stop telling black women what to do. Stop telling Jasmine she had to do this. I don't look at it as we're telling her what to do. I'm looking at it as holding her accountable for the very words that she said. Do you think that she's going about this the wrong way? Yes.

You don't like it. I just don't understand and I don't want to do what other people are doing and making accusations about why she may not be supporting James Tilarico or why she's changing her tune three months later. But what I will say is if the goal is blue and the goal is unity, which she, which are her very words, then why all of a sudden is it, well, I'm more focused on down ballot races. That's great. I think that should be important too. But when we've seen you fly halfway across the country to support Bacera, we've seen you support Colin Allred. Why can you not then say, like, we need to unify as, as, as. as Democrats in Texas to turn Texas blue. You feel like Jasmine Crockett is putting her personal loss and animus against the political movement of James Tolariko, which didn't treat her very kindly in front of the project

of turning Texas blue. I said I'm not going to assume why she's doing it. I'm just noting that there is a lack of support. I'm just noting that if I'm watching you support other Democrats who are running and races who are not down-ballot races. Governor of California is not a down-ballot race, and you are coming to California to support Bacera. But in our own state, Texas, where, you know, you've run in the local Senate, or I don't

not if you're a center, but you've run in the local Congress, you were in national Congress representing a district. It should be about the bigger picture at this point, and it should be about turning Texas blue and using her own words. It should be about unity. You don't have an opinion on this? I do. And my opinion is probably an indictment of the entire framework of the argument,

meaning even if we talk about the coming together in a shared project of turning Texas blue, you know, and everybody else will sigh now that I couldn't give a fuck less about Texas turning blue. I don't care. What I do care about, though, is the people of Texas. the people of Texas whether or not they have whether or not they're making a livable wage whether or not they have access to health care whether or not they have schools that are functional whether or not they are free from crime infested communities whether or not the infrastructure the grid in Texas works I care about all those things from a policy

perspective whether or not the women in Texas have have to die during childbirth because I care about all of those things right and so I would think that anyone that cared about those things would champion those things. And here's the deal. And here's the fucked up part about the entire deal, is that if you make it about you or your crew, is never about the people. And that is a problem. If whatever cohort that you represent,

you will run to the comfort of that cohort before you think about the entire spectrum of issues that people face. If you look at this set of problems for the people of Texas as a set of problems that the Democrats have to solve or that black women have to solve or that black women Democrats have to solve or that white Democrats have to solve, then you are going to sort of be siloed into different spots in terms of comfortability. So the question is not whether or not Jazz and Crockett a lifelong public servant or at least a public servant that has been a public servant for as long as she's been relevant, she's relevant for being a public servant.

I don't know if she's a lifelong public servant, but for the better part of her appearance to us, that's what she's been. The question should be about whether or not a public servant should serve. Not what a black woman should do. Correct. Not what a black Democrat should do. What's the best thing for the people of Texas?

Maybe Jasmine Crockett doesn't believe that James Tallerico is the, best thing from a Senate perspective for the people of Texas or maybe Jazz and Crockett believes that helping down ballot is more effective. I don't know that. But what I do know is the project of turning Texas blue, which in this political tug-of-war, Bloods versus Crips thing that we have, is very, it's less important to me than having a conversation about, because that would, to me, like, bring excites a lot of these wounds. If we were having a conversation about like the actual policy that James Salarico...

I get right. The actual policy that James Salarico was championing and how that would change the lives of Texas. It would be very easy to indict anyone that didn't want to support that. It would be very easy to say, hey, he's supporting the universal health care in Texas. Don't you think you should be with him for that? But it's very easy to silo to split people apart. if we make it about identity and cult of personality, and if we make it about them versus us and us,

that leaves the people of Texas high and dry. So the question shouldn't be, in my opinion, whether or not Jasmine Crockett is going to support James Tolarico, is whether or not Jazz and Crockett is going to support the people of Texas. And if she believes that she's supporting the people of Texas by doing it the way that she is doing it, great. But as a public servant, then people have to be able to litigate and talk about that.

So if she thought that she was helping people out here by coming to talk to Bacera or going to help APEC by talking to Wesley Bell, whoever she thinks she's held, all of that stuff is on the table to discuss about Jasmine Crockett, but about Jasmine Crockett as a public servant, Jasmine Crockett as a political entity, not necessarily the cult of personality or the identity of Jasmine Crockett.

Like I'm not going to tell black women what they feel like they have to do. I'm not going to do that at all. But I'm going to say, look, black maternal mortality is on the ballot. Like black reproductive justice, the freedom of your sons, the freedom of your daughters,

the freedom of yourself, that's on the ballot. So the question is not, whether or not you care about what she got to do. The question is about whether or not you care about yourself. Exactly. And I'm glad you said it that way. I think they're one in the same.

And I think what was frustrating about watching this discourse on social media is we discussed this during the primaries about what people were making the race about, about what maybe people were using as leverage to run in the race. And I'm disappointed that we're here at this point. There's somebody who is representing the ticket who I think has. has great policies and instead we're taking it back to where we were before and we're making it to your point about identity. And I think that you can have this conversation without even talking about that and just using the very words that were used by Jasmine Crockett. I think it is that simple.

And then the question becomes, okay, so why did it change for you? What is changing? And I think people have the right to ask you that question. When you are asked, excuse me, when you are asked if you're going to actively support Tala Rico and you say I have no idea and you're going to be focused on down ballots. I think that your your vagueness is somewhat giving an answer. And so then the question becomes, why do you not have an idea? Are you not planning on supporting? Are you planning on supporting somebody else? What is it that makes you say you have no idea now versus when you said we need a rally around the nominees? I have the right to question that. And when you do that, at least what I'm seeing with the discourse on threads, people attack you and basically say,

you're not understanding black women, you're not supporting a black woman. I just don't think that that's what it's about. And to your point, it should be about the policy. And just think that specifically people who can vote in Texas and people who are having this conversation and are truly doing themselves a disservice by, I think, focusing. I'm not saying you can't be disappointed that the person you want to didn't make it. I'm just saying the conversation we're having right now is not helpful. Jasmine Crockett ran on energizing the base. The actions and the comments since March

are not reflecting that. Well, look, I actually haven't paid too much attention to it in terms of like what she's done or how she's done it. We have a lot more to get and hear from Jasmine Crockett. I'll say this, man. You know, we as people are, slipping into have slipped into have been into been knee deep into a lot of just reckless useless conversations like you know the political process played out to where

jazz and crockett had to go get votes James Salarico had to go give votes in that type of political knock down drag out fight everything at the margins is going to be an advantage disadvantage disadvantage there's going to be advantages for her because she's a black woman in her ability to get a certain cohort of votes. They're going to be way more disadvantages because of the way black women are looked at and treated. He's going to have all of these advantages because he is a straight white male, seemingly insurmountable advantages in America.

But then at the same time, there are going to be places that he is going to be vulnerable because the community is going to look through things that are going on with him and say, hey, we don't like that. Yeah. This is a confrontation of identities, and we've been doing this in politics for so long. It only works out for the politicians. It makes the politicians deities and avatars for your specific group of people. And when you start talking about them as politicians, you don't even talk about them anymore.

You start taking people that are old and calling them uncle and auntie. You start taking people that are your same age and saying, hey, I see myself. when I see this person. I tell you one thing, man. It's like politics, I've said this before. It's the only game where we care more about the waiter than the food. Legitimately, it's the only game where we care more about the waiter than the food. You go into a restaurant.

The waiter is nice. The waiter is from your town. The waiter looks exactly like you. The waiter could be your fucking cousin. The server could be your cousin. Oh, you so-and-so's kid. What happens if you never get your food? Or if the food comes out, it late, or if it's undercooked, or like whatever, or if the wrong order comes.

That's on you. You're not communicating with the kitchen. You're not doing your job. It don't matter that you from Baton Rouge, that you went to McKinley. None of that matters. Like, none of that matters. Don't matter that you a young black man, that you're an old black man, that you're a young black woman, that you're an older black. None of that matters.

What matters? You got a job to do, man. You got a job. paying this is a deal you got a job but in politics we care way more about the waiter than we do about the food we argue about what's good for an individual that is a servant that is supposed to serve people this conversation should be oriented not even around what's blue for texas this conversation should be oriented around what's good for texas what's good for the people of texas i believe that jasmine crockett and jane salarico had design

and plans for Texans that are better than any Magan Republican could because I don't believe in that political movement. And so I believe that that's something to support. If she don't believe that, fine. I don't know what the hell going on. Maybe she feels like she too beat up for the race. I'm not going to tell her what she got to do. But what I will say is what you do do is interesting to me if you are a public servant, if that's what you in it for. So that's all I'm saying.

What the one will say is we can talk about it. I'm not saying we can't talk about it. No, not you. I'm talking to, it's, I'm talking to the people. Talking to the, you're talking to the sisters. You're about to get kicked out. You got to get kicked out the threads. We have to be able to have these conversations.

No, we can't. I think some of it was how people were having it, which I think is fair because I saw some of that. And I acknowledged that at the beginning. But some of the responses I'm seeing, I'm like, I want to talk to Risi Colbert. I trust her. Risi was in the comments.

What did Risi say? I don't know exactly. I have to go back and learn. But I trust Risi. Risi was, I love Resey Colbert. And Riesie was riding. I bet she was riding for Jassan, right?

Yeah. Yeah. But I can't remember what she said exactly. So, but look, all I'm saying is this. I get it. I'm not going to be the one to go up there and tell black ladies what they should. It should not do because I'm not, I'm out of that. I'm out of that game.

Daddy. But what I will say is, while we are arguing over this type of shit, somebody drinking dirty water. Yes. Somebody lights is getting cut off. Somebody can't afford this shit. Yes.

So let's put the person in office who is going to not allow those things to happen or whose policies we believe will not allow those things to happen. Or will implement better things so those things don't happen. Yes, you are correct. Threads. I got to check it. Hey, tap me in on what the conversation on Threads is. Okay. Because, you know, I was really, I was really into the King of Threads thing, but then.

You never made it. You never, it was never realized. And it was, it was, it was because when I, when Duran came here, it was just obvious. Well, he let you know you're not in, in. Yeah. There's a group. But Duran, he's worked, he, that's his, that's his shit. And he made me feel like, see, I put identity.

This is what happens. I put my identity as a King of Thread. over my subjects on threads who need me. I know that they need me. I know that they need me. All right. Donnie, what's next? Y'all, I want to talk about Iran?

Let's talk about it. Now, here's the thing about the Iran thing. I am just going to give you guys an explanation of the Iran situation that I'm capable of giving. Okay. Has everyone listening to this podcast? right now. Heard of the television show The Wire. We have.

Have you watched The Wire? Yes, you ask me every time. Okay. Donnie, did you watch it? I did, yes. I also listened to you and Jamel. Shit, yeah. Have you seen The Wire, Bernard?

Jay. I watched one episode. That makes a lot sense. Okay. So when I was thinking about this, the Wire, a specific portion of the wire reminds me a lot of the U.S. Iran situation.

What season? Okay, so season three, the first episode time after time. What happens at the beginning of that episode is that the towers come down. When the towers come down, the towers is where the Barstale organization had their drug stronghold.

They had that motherfucker rocking 24-7 for dope and coke. That's the way the cops on the wire would say it. They had it going. 24-7 for doping coke. When the towers came down, the Barsdale's who have fought for those towers and fought to consolidate their territory in West Baltimore, they had to figure out something new to do.

They had to figure out how they were now going to move the product that they had without their home base. So they went back out to some of the corners in West Baltimore. And when they got to some of these corners, they met someone. They met a young man named Marlowe Stanfield. You guys know who that is? Is it Stanfield or Stansfield? It's Stansfield with an S?

The reason why that just happened to me is because I used to call Lakeith Stanfield. Lekeith Stansfield. He always corrects you. And Lekeith went, then. It's Stanfield. I love that because like when you, you are actor nigger, you do, hey, Van, it's Stanfield.

Marlowe's a Stanfield as well. It's a Stanfield. Okay. So before I go into this entire thing, I won't let you guys let you guys know something. This is not a one-to-one, all right? So some of your favorite characters in this might be compared to some countries that you don't like. But this is my analysis of this entire deal and where we are right now. Okay.

The U.S. This is the U.S. Israel-Iran war as the Barksdale Stanfield War from the wire. Okay. Okay. So first we have the U.S. and Israel. These are the Barksdale's in this situation. Okay. They are the Barksdale's. They are just like the Barksdale's because they are on the same side with two different objectives. Okay. The leaders. Yeah, yeah. What Avon wanted was territory. Avon was a gangster by nature. He was a gangster by nature. He was.

wanted corners. He actually didn't want the corners. If you listen to what Avon said to Stringer, Avon didn't say I want those corners. Avon said I want my corners. So Avon believes that this territory in West Baltimore is his what? His right. He has a right to this territory from either having fought for it in the past or having a longstanding connection to it. He thinks he is in titled to this territory. He wants his corners. The Barksdale had had those corners before they moved into the towers. So Avon said by the right of the pass, they are mine.

Does that sound like anyone to you? Yes, Bibi. Sounds like Israel. Far right factions in Israel believe that the whole Middle East is their block. Their block. If you listen to what Mike Huck could be told, Tucker Carlson, he says, it would be cool if they took it all. So be it Gaza, the West Bank,

the Golan Heights, parts of southern Lebanon, or Iran. Israel wants its corners. That's what Israel wants. What Stringer wanted was economic. And it was always economic with Stringer. Stringer was an exploiter by nature. He was down for all of the gangster shit in the world,

but only if he could extract a profit out of it. The moment the cost was too high, Stringer was out. He didn't stand for anything. He didn't believe in anything. He was about anything besides what he could get out of someone or something. If the war had too high of a price, Stringer thought the war was irrelevant. That is the USA. We are now and have been in our entire history the grand exploiters of this world.

Every single U.S. intervention in its history comes back to making the U.S. richer. even when we went in and save the world in World War II, what we then did was establish ourselves as the center of manufacturing in the world and gave ourselves a gigantic head start in the New World Order, controlling the flow of money. Got everybody used the dollar. There's always something in it for us. And in a war, normally that's the way you want to look at it.

But that's the point of the United States. Our imperialism and domination has always been in service to capitalism, and it's especially now. So everything is a cost-benefit analysis with us. So now that this war choice has too high a political price, we're not willing to pay for the ass kicking, okay? Or we are willing to pay for the ass kicker. Well, we are according to the MOU. Well, we're paying for the ass kicking. You know what that means?

What? We should change our acronym. Two. We're not USA anymore. What are we? We're BDSM. We pay to get our ass kicked and we like it. Who has the whip?

You know who. All right. So then the rest of the Gulf nations, that's the New Day Co-op. They've been controlling a product for so long with their arrangement that they just want the drama stopped so business can get back movement. By the way, prop Joe, that's the Saudis. They move in a sinister silence and have hidden their hands on almost everything. They never have to quite commit to fighting themselves,

but they are able through maneuvering and relationships to tell other people when they have to do it, to give incentives for other people to do it, and to stay back behind the scenes when it's really, really time to get your hands dirty. but they are one of the most sinister forces in the entire region. All right. Obviously the Iranians here are who?

The Iranians are, is it Marla? Yeah, yeah. Iranians are the Stanfields. The Stamfields. Once again, this is not a one-to-one. So don't get mad. Be like, oh, man, this is not a one-to-one. Okay.

Iran suffered way more damage in this war than Marlowe and Chris and Snoop suffered in their war. Because really when you go back and look at it, which I did, they whooped the shit out of the bar stales. Yeah. They whooped the shit out of the bar stales.

But they were still at least to the rest of Baltimore at first overmatched. And they were overmatched because of the reputation of the bar stales. The reputation of the barstales was that these niggas get busy. And when it's time to fight, they will fuck over. over anyone. But the Stansfields knew Weebae was dead, excuse me, Wee Bay was in jail,

Stinkham was dead, and that the Barksdale's did not have the type of muscle that they used to. They realized that the Barksdale's were a little bit weaker than they were letting everybody else know. So all they really had to do was hang on. For a while, Chris Snoop and Marlowe went underground. They couldn't be out anymore.

The war changed the way they could move around. They had to put some shadow over them. But they knew that they could outlast them. And when they outlasted them, it would be good for them. What happened in this situation is the war itself made them realize how important control of the corners were. and their decision to fight was just as important as their ability to fight. That is Iran. Iran's decision to fight the United States of America in this entire war was much more important than their ability to fight.

Because there were two war aims by the Americans in this entire thing. Well, there were a bunch of war aims, but there were two different ways they went about it. The Americans had tactical aims, which was how much damage they could do. to Iran and they had strategic aims. The tactical aims, they pretty much, they did them. They beat the shit out of Iran tactically. But strategically, they didn't accomplish fucking anything, nothing.

As a matter of fact, strategically all they did was make Iran understand that they couldn't kill them, that they were powerful, which is what happened to Marlowe and them. The bar sales ain't got shit. Now they're kind of making us into the mess. win. When Marlow realized that all the muscle was gone, you realize if you held his position, they would win, even if they had to go away for a little while, they would win, they would win, they would win. The Iranians understood that the U.S. does not have the political resolve to finish what they said

they wanted to do, which was to change the Iranian regime and completely obliterate the Iranian nuclear intelligence intelligentsia they could never do that because that would be too much of an endeavor the country doesn't have the political will for that because the war wasn't sold to the country because the war itself doesn't have a real utility there's no reason to go to war americans aren't quite as stupid as what you think they are and so because the political will didn't exist you couldn't do what you needed to do which means that this negotiation right now the entire negotiation, the whole MOU

is one thing. It's bringing Iran into the New Day Co-op. That's what this entire thing is. And at the end of the Barksdale-Standfield War, what eventually happened was the

Stanford Organization was solidified as a major power in Baltimore. Everyone else knew that they had to be contended with. So the only thing you could do was bring them into the New Day co-op

and have them sit right next to Prop Joe, right next to cheese, right next to hungry man, right next to all of the other people. That's all you could do. And that's where we are right now. What this MOU does is take a whole bunch of investment from the surrounding Gulf countries, give it to the Iranians.

Trump came out and said that the Iranians have a right to their ballistic missiles. Other people in the region do. The Iranians deserve parity. They deserve respect. Their rogue nation status has now been revoked by the United States of America. Now, if we were to get into a whole political endeavor, a historical political endeavor about rogue nation status and the United States emiserating different countries with different types of like goddamn sanctions and all of that stuff. We could have all kinds of conversations about what you thought Iran deserved,

how Iran treats its people, all of that stuff, what you believe about the world and how the United States should be able to designate a country. All of that stuff is right there. But one thing that is not up for debate is that in this MOU, both the investment into Iran from a financial situation, if they were in fact to do all of the things, the EMU says that they should do.

And the stature in which we treat Iran gives them a seat at the table alongside the other nations that make up the Gulf Coast countries and a seat at the table with the United States of America. So your strategic goal to change the regime, to embarrass the regime, Your strategic goal to do all of that failed.

It failed. And you created a greater enemy than you had before, which is exactly what happened to the bar sales. Now, I'll say this, some foreboding things that came out of the show. Okay. What remains to be seen is what happens to a relationship between Avon and Stringer here. Because this relationship between Avon and Stringer, the United States being

Stringer and Israel being Avon. You guys, Avon was a gentleman, gangsta, and we loved them. For the purposes of our analogy, continue. Remember what happened here? One dead, one in jail. In this situation,

Bibi Net and Yahoo might end up dead. Excuse me. In this situation, Bibi Net in Yahoo might end up in jail. Right? Like where Avon went. also Donald Trump might be politically deceased after this his political life could be over in November with the midterms those guys also ended up turning on each other once they realized that their visions

weren't just misaligned but actually at cross purposes with one another that blew up the entire thing and led to really a new status quo in Baltimore. All of this is contingent upon doing one thing, which is what Stringer and Avon did in the Barksdale-Standfield War. They picked the wrong nigger to fuck with. They picked somebody who was ready for that. They picked somebody who wasn't running from that. and they weren't on the same page with what or why they wanted to do it.

Stringer thought, hey, just get them to take the package. We can do all of this stuff. We'll be cool. Avon is like, no, I want what's mine. That is exactly what happened here. What happened here was that for whatever reason, the Israel's almost psychotic need to annex every part of the Middle East, we thought fed

the United States is want and need to economically dominate everyone but it turned out those two things were at cross purposes so now you have little enemies

and big problems the Iranians know that they can control the straight so the MOU gets you into a situation to where for throughout the rest of this negotiation you can talk about

you know blending down nuclear assets, you could talk about ballistic missiles, you could talk about all of that stuff, but they know now with precedent that if anybody jumps stupid with them, they can deprive the world of 20% of its oil, which then leads to its fuel and its fertilizer and all of that stuff. That, to me, is more valuable than a working operating nuclear weapon, right? So now, for the rest of the time, you got to deal with Marla. Until he ended up flashing out and going crazy in one of the worst kind of weirdest endings in wire history. That's the way I explain the whole thing.

Wow. I think it deserves a hand clap. Thank you. That was very good. I appreciate it. It was very good. And captivating, I will say, at the same time, especially if you watch the wire. If you didn't watch the wire, then.

I haven't watched it. I'm sure how many times have you watched the whole thing? I only watched it once. So I have to refresh my memory on some of this. Okay, wow. Wow. I apologize. No, don't apologize.

I just, I've only watched the whole thing once, so I have to be up to date. But, and I don't know how to make the comparisons thereafter, but like where we are right now with Avon and Stringer, it looks like Marlowe is still going to have the upper hand. here, well, Marlow already, it does, but Stringer and Avon are still fighting. They're not going to come to an agreement. I'm going to pull this out of it. I'm about to say Avon again. Bibi is not going to stop attacking Lebanon. He can't. He ran on permanent war. He's run on expansion. Like, elections

are coming up. Are they not? Like, this is what he's, his whole thing has been on, and he really hasn't been able to carry that out in the way that he promised. And now that elections are coming up, he's got to keep doing it. U.S. doesn't want to do that. Iran doesn't want to do that. So where are we right now? If they continue to attack Lebanon, then the MOU is going to fail. Now, I know they have this 60-day thing back and forth, but even this weekend, it was Iran's refusing to negotiate. Iran's pulling out. Now Iran's back at the table. Like, it was all this back and forth. It really seems like if we say this, I feel like every time lately we've been talking about what's going on is

there's no end in sight. I don't even know how you get there. Netanyahu is very matter of fact about what he wants. Iran, very matter of fact about what they want. I mean, all the concessions are pretty much... What do you think Netanyahu wants for Iran? For Iran? Yeah. What do you think?

Anyone can answer. I think that he wants their... I don't think that he wants them to have no nuclear weapons. And I think that he wanted the U.S. to attack and destroy. He wants a failed state in Iran. Yeah. Right. But this is what I mean, like, completely come in, tactical.

Like, they, I mean, I know. I know Trump's ran on regime change, but obviously he was not successful in that, but completely decimate Iran to where they cannot function. Right. Yes. I, none of that, as we've seen, does not look to be possible. Right. So we're stuck with this just seems like it's just never going to end. Because in this MOU, when you look at it, we gave them everything they wanted.

We gave them more than everything. More than for the whole JCPOA and the way. he criticized it, we're giving them money to rebuild, we're unfreezing their assets, billions of billions of dollars that they're going to, that they're going to come into. No regime change allowed to keep

whatever they have, am I correct, as it is. And the people who are negotiating at the table, like at least when Obama did it, he had people who were like well-informed, understood what nuclear weapons are in the making of it as opposed to Kushner.

Can I interject that? Please. is why the JCPOA looked like it did. Yeah. The reason why the JCPOA looked like it did was because these people were so well informed that they were able to say, okay, this is the best possible scenario that you could come to from dealing with the Iranians. Yeah.

Like the best possible scenario that you can get to is one that deals with this nuclear question that Iran led by the Aetola, the Aotola never sprinted for a nuclear weapon. But what he did do was keep the nuclear question alive, not just in his country. There were hardliners inside of Iran that wanted them to sprint toward a nuclear weapon. He actually kept him at bay because he knew that that would lead to annihilation. At the same time, he left that question unresolved on the world stage as a bargaining chip. That's also to get the world to look away from what was going on inside of his own country. Because, of course, if you're seen as a dictator, that gets used as pretext to come in and fuck you up.

Right, no matter how the fact that we got to drink shitty water and our women can't control their bodies and doesn't matter what we're going on. If it looks like something's bad happening, we have to go over there and free them. You have to give them free, right? So he, I'm not, no one would accuse the deceased Ayatollah of being a moderate, but he was a good politician in that he was able to walk a line using the nuclear question as something to captivate the West and using. that same question as something to keep the more hardline people inside of his country at bay. And he also sometimes

would put a moderate in there. Sometimes he would mix things up to make sure that those people. Now those hardliners, they killed him, those hardliners now run the government. They run the government. They have control of the Strait of Hormuz, which they will always have no matter what the United States says. But they also, probably

at some point, with the vast resources that they're getting, will making an attempt to develop a nuclear weapon. Well, why would they not? And not even just that they were hardliners before. And now that they've lost people. They've lost family members. These people have been, you know what I mean? So it's like they're motivated even more than they were before. So all

that to say, I mean, okay, cool, y'all got this MOU, but it's just with what Israel is doing, there's just no end in sight. Even as we speak right now, even as we speak right now, the politics of this whole thing have these guys handcuffed.

Netanyahu is handcuffed by one, his nature. Everyone that's saying that Smokers and Ben-Gavir who are making Netanyahu act like that, they just don't know very much about Benjamin Nanjahou. Benjamin Netanyahu is of the Lakoud way of thinking, this is what he wants. So I don't believe that somebody is making BB. I do believe that they gave him a lifeline

to get out of some of the political trouble that he was having, the criminal trouble that he was having in Israel, I believe that he probably needs them. But at the same time, there's not a lot of restraint that's going to be shown in Israel, period. The people that are coming behind Netanyahu, they're probably not going to be, they're probably going to be beholden by the same types of things, which is the fact that people want this war in Israel. They want this war.

This stuff is polling well over there. Like the stuff in Gaza, there isn't this huge populist ground. in Israel right now, based on polling, to stop all it is and get back to peace. The country seems to have been fundamentally changed by October 7th. I don't even want to say that. I'm saying that while there have always been liberal movements that have risen up in Israel in protest, it seems as if there's been a hardening or bubbling to the top, a mainstreaming of some of the hardline attitudes towards the Palestinians

that have always existed in Israel, what you need to exist in an apartheid state. But now geopolitically, you're just, wipe them all out. Seems to be the notion. So withdrawing out of southern Lebanon, which is what the Iranians would want, they want a withdrawal. Which is what the U.S. agreed to.

Like, get out. Yeah. Netanyahu does that, he is going to face intense scrutiny. They might say that they're going to do that. They might say, hey, we have a ceasefire right here. If those troops come out of there, he's going to face intense, like the sun on him scrutiny from people inside of it. But the Iranians are going to use that as a reason to maintain control of the straight

and never to be quite an interesting situation that was created almost entirely by the United States of America's decision to enter into a war of choice where their strategic ambitions were both murky and politically costly. Even if they had wanted the people to rise up, like they said, they didn't do nothing to help that happen.

Because that wasn't what they really cared about. All right. Thank you for, thank you guys for giving me 20 minutes on the wire. I don't care. Sometimes what we got to do. I thought it was fun. Anyway, you want to talk about Bill Marr next? Yeah, let's all right. On Friday, he had an episode of his show real time with Bill Marr. He wrapped up a panel segment that included a friend of the show, Rokana, and asked his panel guest to explain the Obama presidential. center to him, which had just had his opening ceremony this past week. You guys were both at the Obama Library. Do we have a picture of the Obama Library? Because it looks like...

Bestar. It looks like something aliens built in Dubai. I like it. Why do it? It costs $850 million. I don't understand why progressives like this. Couldn't that, you know, money be better spent on something else? Who's going to go to this? Why do we need a president?

Why does anyone need a presidential library? These monuments to somebody's ego out of office? Are you, anybody here in this audience planning to go to the Obama presidential library? Really? Oh, don't come on. Put a bunch of fucking liars, you are. You're not going to the old Bible library.

At a time that Elon Musk is talking about sending people to Mars, you're telling me that spending up to a billion dollars. Yeah, stop it. So, you know what's funny? I went to the Nixon one. Where is it? It's in Loma Linda. It's like out here.

Oh, it's out here. Yorba Linda? Your Belinda. Okay. Either your Belinda, it's, it's, where's that? It's your Belinda. Yeah, I went to the Loma Linda, your Belinda. One of those is a place where people live to like 120 years old.

It's a blue zone. There's a blue zone. I think it's your belinda, Loma. Whatever. I went there. I went to the Nixon Library. Okay. And you liked it?

It's a museum. It's history. It was phenomenal. Yeah. This is, this is, I mean, Bill, Bill Maher saying this does not shocking to me. Like, one, he just seems to complain about everything. And two, like, yeah, like, you brought this,

this, this hit you a certain way? This is your topic. He hit me a certain way. God damn. Oh, man. I don't know, you tell us. Oh, shut up. You're not supposed to play into it.

You're supposed to go, oh, man. No. Because then you make me feel bad. No. Okay. So, no. The reason why is because, like, this is dick riding. So. For who?

This is dick riding for Bill Maher. Oh, my God. This is, he on Obama dick. Get off Obama nuts. You think Bill Maher's dick riding with this? Yeah. Okay. How?

Oh, oh, you don't know. Uh-uh. Hayden is a form of dick riding. Okay. Okay. Look, I just blew Jade's mind. Hayden is a form of dick ride. Yeah.

And people don't know that. People think dick ride is just, oh, man, you're the illest nigger. But when you always on a nigger dick, you know, it's just whatever, whatever, whatever. We've only used it one way on this podcast, but sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. Always being, hating for no reason. Okay. Hayden for no, hating is a form of dick ride. You're right.

That's very true. And so this right here is interesting to me, this is some tan suit bullshit. He's got a presidential library. Everybody has a presidential library. I know. This is the type of shit that we're talking about. You're talking about the fact that it was, it was, look, $850 million for a presidential library, that's a lot of money.

Okay, that's a lot of money. If I was talking to Barry, Barry, Barry. Who pays for it? Well, it was probably funded. Oh, it was probably fun. Yeah. If I was talking to Barry, I would say, hey, Barry, might we have done it for four, okay? Hey, 50, I'm fucking with you, Barry.

Might we have done it for four, okay? But it's privately funded. People want to spend their money on shit. To me, that's like looking at the nigger with a cyber truck. The nigger drive out in the cyber truck. I look at you like, you crazy. But I'm like, yo, that's what you wanted to do with your money. You'll buy the cyber truck, you dumb, fucking corny-ass bitch.

Damn. I hate the cyber truck. I don't like it, man. I can see you in one. You could see me in a cyber truck? I don't think they're corny like that. So I'm not knocking you with that. I just could see like your stature in a cyber truck.

Like I can see you rolling down the window in an all black one. No, no, no, no, don't bury the lead. You fuck with the cyber truck? Oh, do I want one? No. But you don't think they're corny. I don't think they're corny. Interesting.

I'm not calling it because I don't want you to think that I'm saying you're corning. I can see you on a date in a side. I'm definitely corny. I actually wouldn't want to be in one. I don't think they're safe. I don't know what about it. But look, my thing is this, look, I'm saying, when I see somebody in a cyber truck, you want to go do that?

Go do that. Right. That's your thing. The points that Bill Maher are. making and these are problems that I have when people, there are so many things to criticize Barack Obama about. So many things, if you wanted to, you could criticize Barack Obama about. You're talking about its presidency.

Talk about some of the foreign policy stuff, some of the disappointments, some of the early immigration stuff. All of that stuff is fair game. But they never criticize Barack Obama on that stuff. That's not what they do. They criticize Barack Obama on stuff that they don't criticize. other presidents on, which is the thing that makes it look racial.

Because everybody has a presidential library. The presidential library is something that you get a bunch of money to. It's how you show how much people love you. Oh, I need all of this money for my library. I need all this money for my stuff. That's what you do. Everybody has one. His is swagged out.

They played basketball. Jerome was there. He dunked the ball. So I saw all of this stuff. But just to make this a deal. it seems like you want to kick the nigger in his nuts. It seems like to me, and that's the last thing I'll say, is that they just don't like how black and excellent Barack Obama is.

I'm not about to worship Barack Obama. My politics are to the left of Barack Obama, but the nigger is black and excellent, and he doesn't try to not act like it. He doesn't try to dumb himself down so y'all can understand it. He doesn't try to act like his family isn't beautiful. He doesn't try to act like he doesn't have a great marriage, She doesn't do anything to make you guys more comfortable with the fact that this is a black man who was also the editor of the Harvard Law Review.

And you have nothing better to do with your time than the hate on the library that was given to him through love and donation. Yeah, because Barack Obama and his family don't fit their narrative. And it's like what Michelle Obama was saying in her speech when she talks about how all these things that were thrown at him, her, their family, that weren't thrown at any. other president's family because they weren't black and he it never they never saw him rattle never and ever and so they continue to poke at him because he doesn't fit what they want him how they think he's a black man should act or a black family should be or whatever it may be and the reason i'm like was so flipping about the topic is because i don't think bill bar is that stupid he's trying to be so aloof in this clip when he's like why do you know

need this. Why did to your point, all the presidents have one, which I think Rokana said something like that. And then when people clap to say they would actually go, because this museum is going to be different from any other president museum. And the way things are looking right now, it seems like we'll never have something like this again. Of course people want to see something that is historic for a different reason. Bill Maher knows this. This to me, when I saw this, I'm like, oh, of course he did this because he knows this will go viral. He knows people will talk about it. He's not stupid. He might be racist.

This might be a racist, a racist discussion on his part. I'll say it like that. But he knows what he's doing. When Roe Conn sits there and explains the importance of the representation of Barack Obama to Bill Mar like he's a fucking third grader. I'm watching this and I'm like, of course he gets it. He's just doing it to do it. And that's why it was so annoying for me to watch.

because I'm like, why is Rokana explaining this to you? And then relating it to himself and talking about how it encouraged him and sparked his political career and what it showed. Like, Bill Maher knows these things. And even watching the way it was televised, I don't even know if you saw the Lego representation that Iran did about Trump watching the ceremony on TV. It was beautiful.

It's bigger than anything that you've ever seen. George Bush was enjoying himself probably more than any. Barack Obama himself. He was getting, having a good time. There is so much love. and appreciation for even to your point, you're left of Barack Obama, but you can still recognize the excellence of it. There is so much of that that is given to him more than you to have seen really any other president that Bill Maher is just doing this shit to do it. I agree with you,

but I'm going to be real with you. I don't. Let me tell you why I do. I do agree with you, but I don't agree with you. It's okay. You can disagree. Maybe not, but I will. Okay. But let me tell you why. I believe Bill Maher. You believe which part? I believe that, because I'm going to stop doing this, I believe that Bill Maher is genuinely peaved by Barack Obama's presidential library. Rachel, there is a thing.

I agree with you. Right. There is a thing. There is a thing. And I'm running up against this thing. And I don't know how to explain it. they don't like niggas. They don't like them.

They don't, bro. I don't know how to tell y'all, but they don't like it. They don't like it. They don't like that type of shit. They don't like that shit, bro. I'm like, I'll be just having casual conversations

and somebody will say that, I'll be like, yeah, this other person has that. They've done that. They'll be like, I don't know, it just feels different. I'm like, I know it feels different to you. I know it feels different.

Because it doesn't fit your narrative. No, it feels different. to you because nigger feels different to you. That's what feels different. Black people feel different. You know the construct of this thing. That presidential library is not supposed to fucking exist because he wasn't supposed to be able to do that.

So any celebration of him is a celebration of ego. It's a celebration of all these things that don't have to do with genius or hard work. Those things are white things. What black men have is ego. What black men have, is hubris. What black men have is audacity. The audacity, even the way that Obama described it. That's what black men have. What white men have is work ethic and focus and ambition

and all of those things. And so when you're going to a different library, you're celebrating that stuff. You're celebrating the story. But you couldn't be doing, this has to be a big, shiny dick in Chicago. An $850 million penis. That's what it has to be. It has to be that because a black man has it. That's what it did. I'm so glad that Bill Maher doesn't count himself as one of our allies anymore.

I'm so glad. If it's one thing that I'm glad that the last 10 years did is to get white boys like that, the fuck out my section. We ain't playing no Macklemore. Get out my section. Get out my section We might be playing Mac Miller But get the fuck out of my section man

Now we're not playing MacLmore Get the fuck out Stop acting like you one of us Stop acting like you down Like you say nigger and you lost your mind Because Ice Cube wasn't with it Like so like get out Get out the section

What did happen to? Bill Maher Yeah like get the fuck out And now he's so scarred by that he's got to go and talk about Barack Obama. This is tan suit bullshit. Let that big are dressing tan. Keep the war criminals out your motherfucking library though. If you want me to get on his ass,

I get on his ass now. If you want me to get on his ass or get on his ass. You don't have to do that part. I agree with you about him being annoyed. I agree. I agree that part. But what I don't agree with is that he doesn't understand why it's a big deal. And that's what I, that is annoying to me that he keeps doing it. We know you get it. This is why you're

annoyed. You're annoyed because it a big deal. It's in him to be this way. It's in him. That's why he could be friends with like rappers. That's why he, that's the type of niggas. That's the top of nigger, right? That's why he could like, I remember back in the day, and this is when I was stupid.

I remember back in the day when I would hear Bill Maher talk about like juvenile, like back that ass up. He'd be like, this is the way I like, blah, blah, blah. I'd be like, oh, shit, yeah, okay, Bill Maher. No, that's the pinnacle of blackness to him. The pinnacle of blackness to him is you are fine motherfucker what you back that ass up. And that is, that could be, I can understand why he would feel that way. Because, you know, but this right here, this threatens his order.

These are white men, white men have friends. Sometimes them friends be pets. And they don't even know. That they are. Or they don't know that they're treating them like a pet. They don't know that they are exotic animals. Not dogs, but like exotic animals. And by the way, sometimes the pets don't know that they're pets.

And sometimes when you get a little bit more, you realize that you're a pet and then you go, hmm. But what Barack Obama is for Bill Maher is Bill Maher is actually what a Barack Obama's pet. Barack Obama is his senior. Barack Obama is somebody that he has to look up to. I couldn't have done that. And that drives him fucking crazy. This uppity nigger. That used to be your guy.

Shut up. Please clip that. Stop calling me out. But you've grown. Stop exposing me at all times on this podcast. But it's... It's good. You said it. Like you used to. And the more you watch, the more you understood what was going on. Don't listen to me when I say anybody is a good person.

You never said he was a good person. I never said he was a good person. But I've been watching Bill Maher for a long time, man. You absolutely never said he was a good person. I've been watching him, Dick Ride Obama. Get the fuck out of here. Yeah. In a recent interview with WFAN sports radio, Nick's owner James Dolan confirmed his acceptance of the White House invitation for his team while noting some unspecified. details still needed to be worked out. Let's hear from JD. Are you looking forward to the celebration at the White House? As a matter of fact, thank you for asking me that. We just did receive an invitation from the White House, which we accepted.

We still have to figure out the details and et cetera. But, you know, yes, of course, I mean, you know, look, I invited the president to come down for the game, right? He is a friend. I've known him for 30 years, and I'm very proud to bring the team to the White House. You said you were privileged that a sitting president came to the garden. First time ever for a finals game. First time ever for any NBA finals.

That's right. And then you guys get to go back and be celebrated for the entire country to see at the White House at some future date. Yes. All right. How do you think? You're curious, you think, you think I'm okay with it? You think I think the Knicks should go? Whoopi says she thinks they should go.

Did you see Whoopi's think comment? No, what do you say? Whoopi basically was like, they should go because she wants the black men to stand in our house and remind all those people as we tried to remind the vice president that when you destroy one part of history you're destroying all of our histories so she thinks that they should go and represent be representative since how many almost all of them are black except for one is that it on the team yeah they got they got some niggas with them yeah i don't agree don't think that should go well i mean i gave james dolein a uh a compliment after they won when i said i wish the

Cowboys owner would take a step back and let people who should be running the team, run the team to allow them to get to have the success that they could possibly have. I do not love James Dolan. But James Dolan who accepted the invitation on behalf of the team from the White House and said we accepting it is the James Dolan that people complain about. Is the controversial James Dolan that people have talked about since the moment he stepped into ownership with the Knicks. is the James Dolan who's been friends with the president, because they do share things in common, including sexual assault allegations, who's been friends with him for 30 years and put that friendship over the voice, the feeling, and even the power of his players and coaches who don't look like him.

And even crazier is when, and it's not just even talking about, like, what Trump represents, has represented over the 30 years that they've been friends, all of that kind of stuff. It's just even the timing of it. You're coming off of a, a White House event where a UFC fighter calls Michelle Obama, a black woman, a man,

and the president and the administration have nothing to say about it. Under an administration where the policies that are being implemented directly affect the black community in a very negative way. It is fully against them. You're talking from an administration as I believe it was Sunny Austin who said on the view when she was talking to J.D. Vance where, and we're talking to, Bopi Goldberg, we're saying black people don't feel seen or like we're even a part of or considered in the decision making when it comes to the administration. And you're going to tell, you're going to tell whoever he was talking to, we accept it. And it's an honor because that's your friendship. And he's basically showing that he believes in his power or really is asserting his power over any kind of consideration of his players. He's basically, I feel like saying, I'm the owner. You're my person. players, this is what we're going to do. And we all know the history of Trump with the NBA.

No team has been since he's been in office. And so now you're going to go because you're friends with him. And that's what's more important than anything else. And now you're putting your players in a bad situation, right? With players who've been outspoken against Trump. We know that Josh Hart has. We know that Carl Anthony Towns has been like very much a social justice warrior. I think he won an award for it. And you're putting them in a situation that's lose, lose. if they don't go, people are going to have something to say. If some of the team goes and some doesn't, it shows a fractured team rather than a unifying team, which is what caused them to win the championship.

And then if they do go, people are going to complain. So it's just a bad situation overall. What you should have done is you got the invite, you go to your team, you consult with your team, your coaches, your management, and you ask them how they feel. And as a team, keyword being team, it's not you and then the team. you go in there and ask them how they feel about this if they want to pursue it and then you make the decision after that.

That's what it seems like other owners have done. But that's not what James Dolan does because that's not how James Dolan functions as an individual in this society and as an owner. Yeah, you're right. Everything you just say is correct. I do think that like there will be probably no social costs for any member of the New Yorkness

that decides they don't want to go to the house. I'm not saying that you said that. I'm just saying that like, you know, there have been 10 years. teams that I support that have won, that have gone to the White House, right? And we cut up when we was in that bitch. I'm like, why?

Get the cat, get the cat, get the cat. It is a video that will forever know. They tried to recreate it, I think, this past year. Yeah, Indiana. But, so look, going to the White House for this president is not something that I think that, you know,

that I wouldn't do it, right? I wouldn't do it. I will say that, like, as professional athletes, these guys get to make a decision about whether or not they go and what they do when they do go. I can't play a whole other than now in terms of that. I've been in some really, really, really, really, really non-holy places. Your point about James Dolan is correct. James Dolan, this is his rebellion. This is James Dolan's rebellion saying that, like, while the NBA seemingly has this top-down non-maga stance, it's almost the inverse of.

of the NFL to that degree. The NFL seems to be completely on board with MAGA in terms of the ownership and everything about how many people are in with President Trump. I don't know offhand the numbers as far as the donations that would have come from NBA people, but there is a different culture. So I would have expected there to be less,

at least out front people that were supporters of the president. James Dolan, someone who's known for a long time, he's rebelling. He's rebelling in his space and saying, hey, my team's going. And I was willing to throw away the NBA championship for my allegiance to Donald Trump. I was legitimately willing to completely ruin the vibes. Have President Trump show up. And it took the Wu-Tang Clan at half-time to come out and clean. The funniest thing about that is the Wu-Tang Clan, I'll tell you how the Wu-Tang Clan actually cleans the garden. How? They actually cleans the garden because of their authenticity.

So when I was watching that, half of the Wu-Tang Clan was going, the Wu-Tang Clan ain't nothing to fuck with. The other half of the Wu-Tang Clan was going, hey, the Wutain Clan ain't nothing to fuss with. They were trying to shine it up for the garden, but they couldn't because they're too real. The realness of New York, the fact that that fuck came out of there.

It cleansed them of the fake New Yorker that was in the suite up there surrounded by the bulletproof glass. That guy had been living in Florida for a long-ass motherfucking time. That's not no real New Yorker like that. The Wutane Klan, that's real New York.

The fact that they said the Wutane Klan ain't done to fuck with, that saved the garden that night. The Knicks felt that, and they went out there and they got busy. Whether or not they go to the... I mean, they lost. Wait, Wutank didn't perform for Trump,

or did they perform after? Nigger, they won that game. Oh, so they were game four. Yeah. Okay, okay. Nigger, that was the game where they were down. I didn't realize we switched to game four. All right.

Nah, they won that game. That was the big one. They won. So all I'm saying is, look, they go, they don't go, whatever. You can go and actually make a statement if you go. You cannot go and make a statement. The players that go and don't make any statement will be looked at a certain way. But this is James Dolan, definitely trying to get his championship-winning franchise.

to endorse President Trump in the way. I just hope he doesn't try to do it for the players who, if players decide not to go, I hope that he doesn't retaliate it. I doubt that he could. There's the CBA and all that type of stuff. Right, there's a CBA. Yeah, I would imagine that any player

that didn't want to take a trip could take a trip. The CBA says it's a tradition, not like a requirement. Right. So I don't think that there's anything that he could do. Those guys will have to be asked by it and all of that stuff. And the guys that do go. have to be asked about it. We'll see what the team decides.

Maybe the team decides that they don't want to go. And what you could do is if everybody decides they don't want to go and there's four guys going, then the White House might cancel it because the White House might not want to look crazy. So the Knicks are still in control about whether or not they go to the White House. Well, we know Robinson will go. Man, he said that's bullshit. Did he say that? He on both sides of that.

You know what I'm saying? He's 50-50, just like his free throws. I love you, man. All right. I want to talk about something that's really has really been like, I love this, man. Can I tell you out something real quick?

I love people. Do you? I do. I love people. I love watching people celebrate. I've been thinking about this as I grow older. Like, what do I want more than anything? And what is it?

I want to be a reason people. celebrate. I want to inspire celebration and cooperation amongst people. Now it's some, with the way my anxiety is is all set up. I get outraged and I go on. I wouldn't probably went too far with the Obama thing and I get mad. I get mad. I get upset. I get passionate. But I love to see people enjoy their life and themselves. And some of these profound crimes that we talk about in this podcast, the reason why they move me so much is It's because every time, when somebody's hungry, it's hard to laugh. You know what I mean?

When somebody doesn't have a house, it's hard to fall in love. It's hard to get all of the great things that are about life, art, and inspiration, and togetherness. These systems that we've created rob people at that. And we have this big capitalist thing, and that's what the World Cup is. It's for money and it's this and this and that. But there's something more to it, man. There's a cultural thing here.

to where you have to go to somebody else's culture. You have to fucking land where they are. You have to experience their food. You have to go to their clubs because that's where your team is at. You can't just be about yourself. You have to be about Japan in Houston. And I think it's beautiful.

And it's really, really moving to me. Donnie, play some of these videos. Play the Japanese guy in the Texas club. Play like, like, he doesn't even know that that's from rush hour. and they kind of look now watch now watch him go too far

and watch the brothers look at the brothers the brothers is like nah this nigga going too far look he's getting it look look look

he's going crazy this is what I love to see okay I guess I can watch the whole video yeah you're about to take the shirt off the whole not I'm fucking with this

I love this Donnie play give me a compilation of this look they eating a barbecue. Their minds are blown. They think that they hate us. They just ain't never been to the Bass Pro Shop.

They don't know about ranch. You know what I'm saying? Look. Gallons of milk. Jerky. Holden hands and a sergeant. Look, I'm just, I'm talking about, look, is America, was that from the fucking Daily Wire?

That's tough. But like, yeah, that's what that said. That's, sorry, go ahead. That's tough. But listen. Look, it's even bringing them together. It's even bringing us together. So I'm saying that even beyond that, even when you see, I saw this video,

and I want us to find this video of a Mexican guy in Mexico or watching, I think, is it Korea that's playing down there watching an Asian lady feed a taco to her boyfriend? And he goes, and he smiles because people are in love. people are celebrating. Last thing I say about this is the fact that America doesn't invest into this worldwide soccer culture shows are devastating,

cynical, and really putrid hubris. This is a worldwide celebration around one thing. And we take more pride in the fact that we don't do it than the fact that we do. It's hard to kind of quantify until the World Cup comes around, but you see just how much of a celebration this is, everybody bringing their

different culture. Soccer itself is a sport that is reflective of the togetherness of the world because everybody plays it, but everybody plays in a different way. The Germans play German soccer. The Brazilians play Brazilian soccer. The Italians play Italian soccer. And their culture is like reflected in the game, which makes the game that much more beautiful and that much more of an experience.

And just like being around L.A. and seeing people have so much fun just to be a part of this, that's human shit. And I am inspired by that. Yeah, it's I mean, you said it so well. It's inspiring and it makes you smile because it's simple

things that are exciting people and bringing them together. Of course it's the sport, but it's like the little moments that it's like dancing, feeding someone a taco, just like all coming together. Nobody's paying attention about like what you necessarily look like or where you're from. It's like you're all here to celebrate something.

And culture is a part of that as well. It's not just about soccer. It's about the culture that comes with it. And then for it to be here, you know, you have culture in New York, Miami, other places, but like not as intermixed like you do. Like what we're seeing right now is these people are coming into Houston and Dallas. Kansas City. Yeah, like you don't get that culture.

It wasn't really until I left Texas. and I went to New York that I was like, oh, wow, this is like a totally different thing. And so I think it's cool for people to see, not read about it, not watch about it, not have these preconceived notions, you're experiencing it in real life, and you're realizing joy is the same language,

laughter is the same language, dancing is the same language. Like all of that is so beautiful, and they're sharing it, and as you said, we talk about things that are so heavy, and there is so much to pay attention to and to complain about, but these simple things are just bringing people so much joy,

whether you're out experiencing it in your own city or you're experiencing it on your timeline. I'm like, when you posted this, put this in our chat, I was like, yeah, I'm like really enjoying watching these videos too. Really is a beautiful thing. So, you know, hopefully we don't forget it. What it's over.

I'm gonna tell you, I mean, we will, but look, I'll tell you this, I'm gonna enjoy this. I've decided, I told Jomey, I'm going out to get a kit, you know? I'm gonna get my own kit. What do you mean kit? So soccer kit. Okay.

A jersey, I think, is called a kit. kit in soccer. I'm not sure. Okay, well it's a kid. I'm going to get a kit and then America, Turkey Sunday. Thursday. Thursday. It's Thursday. I'm going to watch it. I'm going to watch it with the people. I am Mr. World Cup now.

I am going to the World Cup. The World Cup is here for another, what, month here in LA or something like that? I don't know how long it's in LA, but it just goes on for another month. I'm missed the World Cup. I'm going to experience this. I'm going to how. Where are you going? Well, I'm going around Englewood.

where everybody's hanging out. We'll go watch. I saw the Bosnians. The Bosnians had nothing but blue on walking through the streets of Englewood. Shout out to them. By the way, you know, guys, you know, here's the thing. A lot of people jumped in the, it was a joke. People were like, very, I don't know, I hope you know that there's crips in Englewood.

You know, I hope there's crips everywhere. You know, it's, I got until July 19th is what, is what Jay says. So you got time. I'm saying, I'm with all the games. Okay. Don't try to, I'm in every game. I'm in every gang. I can't wait to see videos and pictures of you,

one with the people out celebrating. Can't wait. I want you to be out there dancing. I will definitely dance. Yeah, that's what I want to see. All right, let's get out of here with some AI. Siza. Yeah, Siza took the Instagram on Saturday to slam artists

using AI music generators such as Suno. Alleging producer Diplo had equity in the company and was trying to train it on, quote, the best and brightest black minds of writers and producers. Siza said, we make up 13% of the American population, yet influence the world with our sound and perspective. I ain't heard a white AI song yet we have no protection in legislature, medical, or creative, the easiest to steal from. Do not give away your vibranium. Do not train AI with your genius.

Yeah, Jade, I wanted to bring you in on this one because as an up-and-coming artist, because I get, Sizzle like really went on and ran about it because the Atlantic did that article where, and basically had the database where you could put your name in and see if, or like your songs are being used to train AI. And, you know, her whole thing is she, they're using black artists and black songs. And then, like, in one of her, one of her posts, she talks about her niece, who's an up-accoming artist, who's worked really hard, doesn't even use her as a resource

or try to use her name, you know, to build her own presence. and she's like, that's taking away from them. Like, how do you feel about this? You're an up-and-coming artist, very talented. As, like, the state of music, you have people like Diplo who doesn't sing, doesn't rap, so it's kind of convenient for him to be invested in some of this. How does that make you feel as an artist, as a creative,

when you see other musical artists either supporting it and then the ones who are speaking out? Because this isn't going to stop. It's not. And it's scary. At the end of the day, it's just exploitation. And I feel like there are no regulations around this and there haven't been. And it just kind of gives everyone a free for all to use any voice, any sound, anything they want to create, whatever it is they want and profit off of it, especially off a black artist.

And like, I've been seeing, it's crazy because I've been seeing so many people come. out over the last like month of their voices being used. And these are independent artists. These are artists who don't have huge labels backing them, not huge teams. So I mean, it's a scary thing because it's taking away from the hard work that a lot of people in this industry do in order to get where they want to as an artist and create music for their audiences and their people. And I think too, like, it's, I mean, not only is it doing that, but it's taking. away it's also just environmentally like disastrous you know what I mean like this is affecting this is affecting so many things on so many levels that I don't know I I I'm nervous I feel like a

lot of my friends are nervous and you know it's kind of one of those things where it's like where's the solution to it I don't really know what what solution what where where are people taking this how can we put different regulations in place but Why do you think it's happening? Did you say why or how? Why? I mean, there's the ability to do it. You know what I mean?

I think when people have access to things and to tools, they're going to take advantage of them. Why? No, a little deeper. What's the impetus for this? What's the impetus from removing an artist from a song? Makes it easier. I mean, it takes money, time, effort,

everything. It's cheaper. It's cheaper. And especially like producers, I think more producers are willing to do it because it, that is a tool that can, I mean, they don't even have to. Timbalin. Right. So Timbalin Diplo, so I'm not going to speak for these guys. Don't know them that well. But Timbalin and Diplow or whomever else, insert other name, comes up with a, with a song. The AI allows, these guys to do a couple of things. Number one, to be less collaborative. So now, I don't have to tell you, I don't have to go back and forth with a singer or a rapper about the way I want this thing in my brain to sound. I have all the control.

And then also, it's cheaper. Once again, you know, we, I would really, I wish, I so wish I was smarter. Because everything that I say is so elementary on this topic. when it was we thought that there was this patriotic American thing that cars were being made in Detroit

that Detroit was this great American city at one point the richest city in the entire world and cars were being made there and it was a big source of national pride only it wasn't it was a capitalist endeavor because as soon as it was cheaper to make cars somewhere else or make the parts for cars somewhere else you're going to make them there

and then those people have to figure out how they live with the next 40 years of infrastructure ruined because it no longer exists there. And we think that music is this incredible artistic expression and it is. But that art is a part of the commerce that we're talking about, the capitalism

that we're trying to figure out and all of that stuff. And if, in fact, there are ways Diplo is going to be on the other side of this one day. Right? One day it's going to be people because Diplo makes beats. One day it's going to be people going, well, I don't need you either, right? Because if I know how to prompt AI to come in and make a beat, and if I know how to write that code, I don't need Diplo.

I don't need, like, Kanye one time was talking about the fact that he couldn't get the drums right for stronger, right? He couldn't get the drums right. So he had to go to Timberlin for Timbalin to get the drums right on the song. And then Timbalin got their drums right on the record. And Timbalin was like, I'm the king. He was going back and forward. But think about the type of cross-pollinization

that has to exist in creative spaces in order to get the sound that you want. You have to connect with people and do all of that stuff. The money has to exchange. Has it been trust-built. Like, that's a humanistic experience. But it doesn't have to be.

If it is all just about selling something, you don't need humans at all. And that is a scary thing. When you're getting to a point where you don't need the people in there. At first, it starts off with the producer going, hey, I have a song and I don't want to have to tell somebody

how I think to sing, I don't want to listen to what they got to say. I want the song to be sung exactly where I want it and I don't want to have to deal with nobody. Boom. Eventually, he's going to be out of the loop. Eventually, this stuff is just going to be like produced by itself in the whole knot. There's just all kinds of places it can go.

But the one thing is, and all of this, is at what point do we prioritize the experience of human beings, people, over the product that we enjoy. We just kind of were talking about it. When we're talking about real experience and watching people's actual reactions and joy, and like that's something you can't recreate. That's something that you can't type into some kind of chat, bought whatever, and it spew it out.

The reason we're so joyous about seeing that is because it is genuine. it's something that is real. And I think that even, I guess the irony to me is, you know, somebody may be like a diplo or whoever may be using this kind of thing and saying, you know, they're considering themselves a creative because they're putting it together. But it's like you're putting it together or you're collaborating by stealing the sound of other people's voices. And I think the other part of what Sizz is saying that is so important is it goes to something

deeper within our own history as black people. She says, I don't hear AI artists sounding white. They sound a particular way. And that is because black voices, black music, is so influential and such a dominant force in all genres pretty much of the music industry. And so when you look back at history and you see how people's voices and their likeness in certain ways as far as their stage presence was stolen by white artists. and it was used for them to gain popularity and success. You're doing that again right now. With AI, it's just digital.

Elvis was AI. So it's happening all over again. So you literally can take a black voice and first off, steal from black artists, create a black voice and put a white face on it. Literally what you're doing. And to your point, Jade, I don't know legally what can be done. because the crazy thing too is we're talking about it. But if you're on social media, Instagram,

and you're trying to use a song for your real, when you look at trending songs are like, what's for you? Like a lot of them are AI. And I didn't realize that. So there's so many, there's like this trend on TikTok about all the aunties really into this one song. And it's an AI artist. You literally have to go and Google,

is this a real person to find out it's an AI artist? So you're promoting it without, even realizing you're promoting it because there's no there's no like there's no note that says this is an AI artist yeah it's like when that sore thing or whatever came out was making videos and showing like our black historical figures doing um animalistic stuff like there they're used to not be any kind of note on it so I don't know what's going to have to happen here because it's just like it's just all getting out of control and it takes away genuine talent and experience and it takes that away from us to be able to experience it to as consumers.

I'm so glad they stopped that, man. Oh, see, I didn't say, I didn't get into the specifics. I didn't get into the specifics because I knew you would start laughing and you did it anyway. I'm so glad they stopped that. Thank God. That was the limit. Because who were they using? Us, it's always us.

It's never accidental. They purposely use us in so many different ways or still from us. No, but they've been like, I don't look, I might not look at Bill Clinton a certain way. They ain't using him. They're using black people. It's never accidental. It's never. It's always us.

You know, I'd be interested to talk to. With us. I'll be interested to talk to my man. What's my man that made the BBL Drizzy song? Remember him? Oh, I feel like I met him out. I met him in person somewhere. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Like that B.B. L. Drizzy song is a hit. Right? The original one. And then when Metro Boom and Flip.

I'll be interested to see what he thinks about this. Like, I'll be interested to see what some who is kind of coming up on the AI situation, using it, it's a part of what he does. I'd be interested to see what he thinks about what the guardrails should be. There's going to be King Walonius. There are going to be some guardrails at some point.

The question is, what should they be? Okay, before we get out of here, guys, we promised you an interview with Estelle, her life, her love, her music, her existence. will she ever perform with Kanye West again? We ask her all these questions on the other side of this break. Okay, guys, we have a friend of the podcast in the house right now. Singer, voice actress, actress, rapper, songwriter, performer,

performer, black lady, English lady, all different types of ladies. It goes by one name. One name. One name. That says a lot. Estelle. It's on higher learning. Give it up for us.

Hello. How you feeling? Of all those things I named, which one defines you the most? Oh, my goodness. Oh, that's, that's, the one name. Let's go with the one name. The one name defines you a box. It is, it is.

They say Van to you, Jones, or Lathen. They say Van Jones or Van Lathen. But it's always a second. No one just comes up to me says Van. It's a one name. It's like a... It's a real thing. It's a real, it's like a mantle.

It is. It's a... Stale, you know what I mean? Those are the things. Thank you. That's always a great comparison, first of all. And more because she's legendary and she's been here since before. But like, it's an honor, man.

It's like, it's my great grandma's name, you know, under the she walks so I could fly act. There you go. You know, this is, it's an honor to have this name and it to be the singular thing. I went to, yeah, the Hollywood Bowl. Yeah. I think it was this year. and I went to John Legend Show, a friend of the podcast, and you surprised the audience by coming out.

And as a person who sat in the audience, people lost their minds. I'm not even kidding. I was with Kalika. And I was like, oh my gosh. Obviously, we love you here too, but just getting that reception, you performed a new song from your album. Roses, yeah. Yeah, it was roses.

But then you did, you know, some greatest hits. And people just like, what does that feel like? You're timeless when it comes to this because everybody, I think John must have been singing a slow song and people were just, you know, like in their feelings, sitting down. He's like, I got a special guest, boom, people dancing, clapping. It was like a really beautiful thing.

It's the consistent response to me that blows my mind with that song with American Boy. It's 18 years since we put that out. 18 years. Wow, it's crazy. 18th year. That does not seem like that was 18 years ago. What is happening? Have no clue.

We lost four of them to COVID, but here we are. But like it's the consistent reaction that like, oh my goodness, people love this song and it's literally what I prayed for. So like part of me is, oh my goodness, it's crazy. Part of me is like, thank you God. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It just brings people so much joy.

And it's just fun to see. And then, like, you created something that 18 years later, it was like it had just dropped that night. And may continue for the rest of my actual life and beyond. That's the point of this song, like these songs for me. I don't make music that, how long I say it? I'm not here for stagnant music. I'm not here for just a moment.

I want to, my thing's always legendary and legacy and forever with anything I've done. You know, that's what takes me so long. And that's what kind of is, whole thing. You know, the song itself harkens back to a time where we were really feeling good, man. We were feeling good. Yes. Music made us feel good. Yeah. We were still hopeful, whatever reason. We also were feeling good about Kanye. Yes. Yes. What are the chances that you'll ever perform that record with him again? You know what's crazy? He's actually performing it now in Europe. Oh, he performs a record. Which is wild to me. Why? Because he's,

Because, all right, so we've performed that together a total of maybe four or five times. Oh, in total, in the 18 years. Total. Okay. So it's always a surprise when I see him performing. I'm like, okay, thank you. That's nice. Run it up.

Appreciate it. You know, like, but I've been working on that record. That's been my record for 20, you know, 20 years, total, real talk. So I'm just happy that, again, people get joy from it, whatever, you know. Yeah. But you don't see yourself performing it with him again? I don't think so. Oh, I don't think he, you know, it would have to be a real phone call and a definite conversation and a 180 and his personal perspective on life.

You know, I don't think I need to anymore. Like, I don't think there's a reason for me to actually do it unless, like, oh, it's just going to save somebody's life. Is this, you know, the record's done what it needs to do. You are an artist and you understand the brain and the mind of an artist. And listen, I've got to be honest with you about something. Go ahead. The glasses are off. I'm scared.

Sit back. Go ahead. So look, I've been thinking this for a while because there's two things that are butting heads. Yeah. One is our want and need, our very real want need to live in a society and the community where we hold people accountable. Yeah. And we have people do and act in ways that are humanistic and think about other people, right? We don't want people to be assholes.

The same time, there is this understanding that. you creatives are crazy. You guys are insane. And over time, there are levels to it. Don't get me wrong. Like you go back and people go, oh my God. You know, Vincent Van Gogh, great painter, cut his ear off, sent it to somebody.

Which is wild. The niggil was going through some shit, you know. And you look at creatives and highly creative people. Yeah. And as we get, you know, more concerned with the overall good acting of the individual, but we also have people who are wire a little bit different. The question becomes, how do you balance those two things? If it's Kanye, if it's whomever, like, how do you balance minds that don't work the same as ours with the fact that we want to be in community

with them and we need them to stand up for things and stuff? How do you, art, artists, this whole conversation, where do you stand? Are you talking about like the perception of the audience or are you talking about the art? I'm talking about just. as these things continuously get litigated in real time. Because you could go back and look at James Brown's Wikipedia right now and you'd be like, God damn! But like we're litigating these things in real time. Should we hold a special different set of communal standards

for our artists because they're not operating on the same wayfully? Is that what do you think? Oh, that's tough. I know. Because I'm, you know, admittedly, I give a lot of grace for a lot of things. a lot of people because I find myself in these scenarios too, right? Right. And then there's a point where I'm like, nah, because I could have did that and I didn't.

And then I say to myself at the same breath, yeah, but that's that person's journey. And I can't do nothing about that person's journey. It's their choice. And it's what they, I believe it's what they came here to do. Like they chose this before they came here. I can't do nothing about that. Personally, like, unless I'm physically in the room and be like, And then if I leave the room, they're going to say or do it anyway, you know?

So it feels a little like, ah, shit, you know, like, I feel like humans are human. And I'm trying to not give vague answers, but like I feel like humans are human and they're going to human, if that makes sense. So should we separate it, like as consumers, right? I'll give you an example. I'll give you an example. I was just in New York and I was out, sad, like I typically am. And it was kind of like a boiler room situation. And they start playing ignition.

Right. The remix. Tough record. Right? Right. Because I want you doing with your feet in your hands and your body. And I'm like, I apologize. It was a mixed party.

Like I would say like equal black and white. Mostly men though at this party. And the men, they just lost their minds, right? And I'm sitting here and I'm just looking back and I'm with my home girl. I'm with my home girl and I said, I mean, I do like that song. But I just didn't feel right dancing to it. Black girl comes up to me and she just looks at me. Like, because I wasn't doing anything.

But she kind of looks at me and she was like, girl. And I'm from Chicago. And I was just like, I know girl. And so she just kept on walking. And then I said it to another guy in the group. I'm like, yeah, everybody's over here dancing to ignition. I mean, losing their minds. Oh, yeah.

I tap my foot. And then he goes, well, you were just dancing to Michael Jackson. And I said, that's not the same thing. And he goes, I mean, I don't disagree with you, but I'm just saying. And so it was kind of one of those things where it's like going back to what I'm originally saying. It's like what as consumers, like do we, you know, humans will human to your point, we're learning things. How do we move around it? Yeah, like how do we move around it?

Because we're learning things in real time about people we regarded in such a way that it's sometimes hard to let go with that in light of what we're learning. Whatever you say we will do, Estelle makes the rules on this. I do know. This is the final. This is the final. After this, we're going to decide right now. Y'all can listen to R. Kelly all summer if y'all want. Please don't.

Oh, my God. Please don't. Thank you, Estelle. For me, specifically, R. Kelly and NASA down for me. It's so much that we visibly and grew up seeing. And I've done the whole, personally, I've done the thing where I was like, oh, I mean. And then after the fact,

We saw the video of him with the 14 year old. And after the fact, it was still, you know, I still listened to his music. I'm not going to lie. And I still was two-stepping to happy people. And so it's a little like knee-jerk reaction when it comes on. You're like, oh, wait, wait, wait. Oh, no. You know, so my thing is just like, personally do what you feel.

I'm not doing it. I'm not messing with it. I'm not going out for it. Like, I'm not two-stepping to it. I'm not body-rolling in the club. And I do that with a lot of artists who I don't personally agree on it. way that they treat women and the way that they move through their life. Like I'm very much like that.

I'm the one that's in the club with my friends like, you know, I see you and I have you on video. Like I have videos and some of the homies like, are you really, this is, this is you and I can't really this is how you feel? Messing with them. But like, it's a very, it's a touchy thing because I just keep thinking my sister, my cousin, my brother, my, like, you know, like my family members, whenever I think about them.

And I don't ever want it to feel like if I'm outside here being, for my family. I never want my sisters, my nieces and my nephews to feel like, well, she's dancing to it's all right if a man treats me that way. You know, like with it,

because that's a real, you're sending off flares to me and I just don't, I'm not with that. What is, what is your decency cost you in this industry, if anything?

Oh, um, can I curse a little? Oh, yes, please. It costs me fuck-ass people. Like, people stay away from me with that,

which is good to me. Like, and I like it. I enjoy it. Like, it's nice to come and say hi, but generally I feel like my energy just repels, fuck shit. Has it, for one of a better phrase? Has it always been that way for you?

Or did something happen where it just came? I realized it was happening down the line. But at first I was kind of like, well, how come I wouldn't get invited to this party? How come I wouldn't get? And subsequently, I was like, oh, thank you. Thank you, God. Appreciate you. You know, thank you for keeping me out that mix, you know?

And I love it I'm a big fan of Don't invite me please You know If I'm supposed to be there I'll be there And if I'm not I am so good to be at my house

I enjoy my home It's lovely there It's a good time My backyard is beautiful I know we were just talking about that before The album The latest album That you just had

Stay Alta Stay Alta You collaborated with a number of people Great people Friend of the show Duran Bernard Who we adore.

D. Nice. Which I know you have a story about kind of like How he was doing. Yeah, like what he was doing during COVID and like how that inspired you and changed things for you. Tidre Moses. Teager Moses. That's bad. That's New Orleans.

New Orleans, baby. But also, La Russell. Yes. Now, we talked about La Russell on the podcast. I have to ask you. Just, I mean, you know, well, I have two questions. One, what did you? Did we misunderstand it?

Like, what did you think when his viral, Heaven Sent song? Creatives, man. Their brains is different. You know, like, did we misunderstand it? I'm asking, like, I'm not judging here, not in this moment. I'm just saying, like, you know, do we misunderstand? What were your thoughts into? Would you return the favor of maybe being on his time?

I've done something for his record, so we did that in my session. So I don't know, maybe it will come out. But I think this, and I said this at the time, what he said was, true or not, whether whoever believed what they believed, that was terrible timing. Yeah. And it's not, people have said it before. Other artists have said similar things. And they're not canceled and they're not like pushed away.

It was just wild timing to me. And it was just like, bro, like, did that need to be said in that way in that moment? Or like, what was, what was the point? What were we trying to get to? That's always my question. What were we trying to get to? What was that reason? You know,

that was our question too. What was that reason? I'm always very much like, what were we trying to get to? When we say things as artists and that's my issue with it, with things. We're afforded so much grace as artists

and is not censoring. It's not saying, don't say the thing, it's have a point to it. It's just throwing it in the air to throw it in the air. It's like, it's a bomb.

Just go. Yeah. You hurt so many people and or you could help so many people, just give it context and give it something. You know, don't just land some things there and say, because I'm an artist. Because then that gives the rest of us such a hard little battlefield to like

navigate or to, you know, walk around when we're trying to have our freedom of speech and our singular thoughts and our, this is how I believe the world is, you know? Like, it puts pressure unnecessarily on everybody. I love the acknowledgement of, as an artist you're given so much, And so I feel like what you're saying with that is there's a responsibility that you have as artists that sometimes people play with or don't respect. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I also think with Ler Russell with that situation is that what people are really saying is the grace can't come before the accountability. So if you bring up Donald Trump or Jeffrey Epstein, Jeffrey Epstein's dead. But if you bring up Donald Trump or Jeffrey Epstein, you know, we're still in an active search. for the truth in the Epstein situation. We're still under the thumb of the MAGA regime. I think people want to see the comeuppance and the accountability for some of this stuff before we start saying that we all human

and God made us all, which we know. By the way, I don't think we have fun with the LaRussel clip. He didn't do anything that was cancelable, right? Even some of the ways, and this is a self-scout we have to do, even some of the ways people did respond to put his whole entire life and movement

under the crosshairs. That was a little overreaction. But that was wild. But, you know, these are your friends. So you know, people you have. We're just wild. If I count down the people I'm talking about it. I'm looking at the list right now.

It's crazy. You got all the the controversials right here. But you also do have one of the nicest guys ever. I want to give grace to him. John Legend. Yeah.

One of the nicest men ever. Now we can't get John to do our podcast. I talk to John pretty regularly. Yeah. Like John hit me up. Me and John will have a whole. I called John. His nephew was playing football.

Yeah. Nephew plays for, I think, Ohio. Who's his nephew plays for? He's from Ohio. But I think his nephew plays for one of it. So I hit John. Me and John talking to John,

but we can't get John on higher learning. Right. Love to have John Legend on Highland. John, you had it. John is a friend. He is a friend. He's a nice guy, great guy. Yeah.

Okay. Good human. Music. Mm-hmm. You've been doing music for a long time. Yes. Start over in the UK. Yeah.

All right. You start over in the UK doing music, doing rap. You guys, you're rapping over the UK. Don't laugh. Why are you laughing? Why are you laughing? Because the UK rap festival, hold on. Now you're about to get me cursing out here.

Take a take it. Wait a minute. Wait a second. Wait, no. It's mad UK rappers that I like. Okay. Especially, remember the Drake era when he was putting all of those guys on and stuff? Yes.

What was the guy the really popular one? Giggs, Stormsy, skeptos. Stormzy is, I love storm. A lot of these guys I like. And I like the way they rap. They came around to come through the time. Wow. Sounds.

Not quite like it, but sure. It's the high of it. It's the hands that go with it. What is this? I'm going to say, cut the way. Because it's all right. I like the way they rap. And the grime shit, I like that shit.

And the grime shit, I like all of that shit that comes from over there. Remember Craig David? half the content's gone he was talking about I like all of that shit crazy so legends Craig David no no no a legend

no no no can you fill me in like a legend what do you feel like hip hop is right now like where do you feel like music is right now is there room for creativity I hear people like Lizzo talking about the fact that it doesn't really matter

the work that you put out if the algorithm isn't promoting your work that people are just not getting your music. What do you think about this? I think that's personal projection. That's probably where she's at with it. And that's okay.

She's allowed to have that opinion. The algorithms do factor. I think, and I've always said this, it doesn't matter if your music is good, it's going to reach who is going to reach. And there's a people miss, there's a huge live component. that low artists, especially nowadays, aren't trained for.

They're trained to be online and to be online. And then you got to get in front of people and actually perform that on repeat. In the same way you put up as many content videos, you actually have to go do those shows too, to gain that audience so that whether the algorithm hits or not, you have a career. And a love artist don't pay attention to that side of it. They're just like, oh, if I just do these videos, we're good.

You have to do videos and perform. There's no seven ways about it today. And it's a frustrating realization, you know, from my perspective, because I didn't grow up being like, hey. Yeah. Now I really have to be like, hey, or edit some video from every single thing I do every single day. And that's part of my job now, you know, on top of actually living and trying to be human. Say more about that.

It's a, and it sounds like first world problems. You spend as much time as a video editor as you do as a singer and a. I spend as much time either getting videos or being reminded post the video as I do writing songs, living my actual real life and just doing things that come with my real life. And it's just like, oh, God, that too. But then when I have to go do my shows, I get excited. I'm like, oh, good, okay, this segue is going to be like this. I spend so much time putting effort into my live shows. You have to put that equal amount of effort into video and content.

And to me, that's the difference. Like, you have to do both now. You can't just do one or the other. Yeah. You know, but good music, if it's good, if it's from an honest place, I should say that, because good is subjective, if it's from an honest place, it's going to hit the people it's meant to reach, period. Like, there's no, there's too much evidence to that being the truth.

But how do you go from an artist like her who everybody was listening to her shit? She had these massive, huge hits they were everywhere to understanding, or this for anyone, not specifically talking about her, to understanding that your share of people's consciousness might be smaller now. Like, if you are a pop artist or an artist that has this many fans and then you wake up and either those people have moved on to younger artists or different artists

or the wave you are on has changed, how do you like get back into the front of your brain and go, okay, I'm this type of musician slash artist now? I don't think it's even that that perspective. I think is you do music, right? You're a singer, right? Sing. And keep the main thing, the main thing.

That cannot be the forefront of your entire career at all. Fans are fickle. Like pop fans are fickle. Pop is popular. So if you're not popular anymore, so then you just don't sing anymore, so then you just don't do music no more. This is who you are and this is your heart. And this is what makes you breathe.

That's what you do. And I don't see any of the other ways around it. So my thing is when it comes to, and I've been here, been there, been here, been there, been, you know, I take two quotes to mind. One is Quincy Jones said that he got the message from, I think Louis Armstrong or one of his OGs. It's like learn how to live in the valleys as well as the hills, the peaks, right?

That's one thing. And how you learn to live in the valleys is you diversify. You go and learn, you study, use that time to like be a different, expand yourself as a lot, an artist. Go perform. Go what your favorite artists perform. Go learn how to do something that's going to help you eventually because this is what always happens. You know, you do that. This always happens. So just go learn some shit, you know, go and go and do something else. Do something else that feels authentic to you. And then the other quote is singers will sing. So sing. Rapers will rap. So rap.

Like do the art that you came here to do. All the other stuff is subjective to time and people and popularity and that's great. But I've been here as an artist, I can say this. I've been here since I was 17, you know, in various forms and fashions. And I've managed to make a living doing this and other things. But I, you know, at the core of it, I do this. This is my job.

This is my things. This is who I am. It's the thing I, it's part, not who I am. It's part of my purpose. You know, it's part of the thing that helps propel me into the world to do the thing I'm actually here to do, which is how good. Bring love, bring healing, bring light, do all of that stuff. It's nothing.

It's not about, it's not about the fame and the popularity. That's a great part of it. I'm not going to lie. But if that didn't happen, I still have to bring love. I still have to bring light. I still have to bring healing. I still have to show up. So let me go and learn how to do that the best way possible in the in-betweens,

you know, or while I'm doing some other shit. That's my theory. You're very grounded. You're very, no, really, like, even just like hearing the way you talk about it because when Van brought up, you know, what Lizzo said about the algorithm and I've heard other artists share a similar sentiment, it feels like when you talk about having to make videos and stuff that feels like business, where when I hear that statement that he said,

Lizzo made, it feels like you're putting your creativity maybe basing it off the algorithm, which, you know, is not the same thing. Which is fair. She came in right at that time too, right? Do you feel like though there's pressure, and maybe this is where an artist might get lost, pressure from the industry, pressure from the business of music

that you have to create something, maybe for somebody who just came up in that time, that has to go viral or appeal to the algorithm, and then you lose yourself in your creativity and that. Well, I'm sure there is, but, I mean, do you need to take on that pressure? Do you need to? Yeah.

I mean, do you have to take on the pressure? Do you have to be that person? Do you have to be like, oh, no, let's giving away too much power. It's giving away too much power. Like, and I feel like as somebody, we're alchemists. This is the artist could be crazy part. Like, there's two sides to it. You can look at yourself as an alchemist.

We transmute energy into words and melodies. And it shifts people's energy. That's, you know, we create magic. You have that much beauty and not power, but you have that much energy in your hands. Why are you worried about the pressure from this thing that's ever changing and that probably won't be here when you're still making and singing these songs? Why are you worried about them? Like, do what you came here to do.

That's always my thing. Like, okay, do what you came here to do. Everything will open itself out as you stay and do the thing you're supposed to do. I know it sounds simplistic, but it's quite literally that for me. And I've personally, I've proven this point over and over again. Whenever I get, okay, well, what's next? I go in, I write songs. I literally just, hi, I'm singing this song into my phone.

And I'm going to go and enjoy life and see what happens. Like, so serious. All right. For the person who's not there, right? Like you, like I said, you seem so grounded. And, you know, I don't know if that's how you were at 17 when you came in or just over the years. Okay. So how do you get over the years you've come to this place?

And it feels like you're rooted in peace. I know you've talked about joy in the last album and every record on that album is rooted in that. How did you get there and how do you maintain that? I had to unlearn everything. That's a wild statement. Because it came up maybe 38. It was trying to, like the whole, to phrase it right,

it was not a breakdown, but it was almost like a, well, none of this is true. And it started to happen at 32 And then it just got when I was 38 And they got real intense by the time I hit 38 I was like oh none of this shit true This is insane Everything is Yeah

But my This is the truth And I found out family stuff And I found out things that were told to me Were the absolute opposite I called my mom and had two or three I'd like to call them interviews And my mom and my dad

Like so tell me this again None of that's real Like And, you know, and after it got to the end, well, it's never the end because I find out, I found out some shit last month. After I got to a point where I was like, okay, acceptance and surrender, this shit is always going to change for me. This is always going to be different. That's when there was almost like space for me to be like, well, what do I want it to feel like from here on now? And how can I create from that point?

And the freedom, again, the surrender, the, oh, let me try to. some shit, the fearlessness that I don't know nothing of it all. So let me try some shit. That's what put me on this groundedness. And I wasn't, I mean, the one thing I've kept since I was singer's saying creators create. I've always just done that, you know, and that's the thing that's kind of opened the doors for me.

Like in somewhere or another, if I get annoyed at, oh, this isn't moving or that's not moving, go go sing something. Literally go stand in the middle of your room and sing and see if that changes the energy and the vibration of how you feel right now and it does every time. Every time and that's what I stick with. That's my core. That's my North Star.

Go create something. Go put good energy in the world. Go do something to change. You can shift this. It's not the industry that's going to shift it for you. It's not these people. It's not the labels. It's not.

It's you. And so that's my, again, it's my North Star. That's how I kind of got there. It was some shit though. It's telling your mom and your dad like, that was crazy. No, that was. was really wild. Why would you tell me that?

Right. It's a tough thing at, you know, 3840. Like, he's just sitting there saying. That's when they start breaking out the real shit, though. Oh, my goodness. That's when, that's when you start to hear shit. That's when you, I want to do a documentary where the documentary is legitimately,

only interviews with my mother, my sister, and my grandmother. That's it. Yeah. It's called the women in my family. Just interview my grandmother, interview my mother, and then interview my sister. Just like three, just, just, just, Their stories of the stories of black southern women, you know, through that. Because when you start talking about, like, Mom, it's weird.

Yeah. When you start talking to your mom about the things that she's had to endure, the things that you didn't know, and the things that she's had to make peace with. The men in the community that she's had to make peace with in order just to keep moving along. Like, how did you do all of this? Like, how are you not mad? Then they tell you, she goes, I am a little mad, but I love you. than I'm mad at them.

You know, so it's interesting. So your mother's family is from Senegal. Your father's family is from Grenada. Yeah. This is a place I visited. Yeah, how do you like it? I've been there.

Interesting. Yeah. Tell me. Talk to me. Tell me. So, first of all, Grenada is beautiful. Okay. Yeah.

A lot of other places in the Caribbean you go, like the people there are there to make you feel like super welcome and whatever. the people in Grenada are like, yo, order this shit and get the, they weren't. It wasn't.

It's like the people. Go home. Yeah. I remember we, it was raining real, real bad one time. Have fun in Grenada. No way shit in on that place.

It was raining real bad at once at one time, right? So like real bad at the house we had raining. So we just going to go out and get something to eat real quick. And there was a, we found. We found a KFC in Grenada. Because it's different in the islands. We found a KFC and Grenada.

And I remember the lady was behind the KFC and I was like, yeah, can I have a number four? She goes, we don't have that. And I was like, all, cool. I was like, get the number five then. We don't have that. And I was like, sister. What do you have? What do you have?

Right. What do you have? And she was like, we have the number three. I was like, guess what? I'm ordering. And you just could have told me that you

know they're on their own time. Yep. They on their own shit. This is islands across the board as far as I've heard. Oh, okay, cool. But there are some islands that you go to that they are like,

but I will tell you something that one of the guys in Grenada told me, he said, welcome to Grenada, this is the African, of the Africa of the Caribbean. I always remember he said that. He claimed that.

He said, this is the African the Africa of the Caribbean. The one thing I remember growing up, and so this is the story of my mom and my dad. My mom and my dad got together, split up when I was three. My mom got married to a whole other Grenadian for 20 years, and then they got divorced,

and then my mom and my dad got back together and got married. That's what I'm talking about. So I was being in Grenadian culture my whole life, but didn't grow up with my dad, and he was born in Trinidad, and raised in Grenada because by proxy just work with my grandma at the time. And the one thing I do,

know by Canadians, they are the most educated on black, at Pan African, everything. Yeah. Of everybody that I've, anybody I've met across all the islands. And I grew up with the herbs and all of this stuff sitting on our counter. So people are having these times about like, oh, Cleaver and black walnut and I'm here like, yeah, you see my kitchen. You should see my pantry. It's already, yeah, I know what that is.

Nettle tea, okay. Sour-sop. Sour-sup. I have juice in the car right now. You're playing me. Like, this is not new to us, but because of that. And because, again, Africa, like my mom is first generation. Born in Senegal, raised in Sierra Leone, came when she was 12 to the UK, brought all of that with us, brought all of that with her and gave it to us.

Like, this is who we are. Read these books. That's cute. That's what they're telling you at school. But here you go. So I grew up with some militant parents, you know, like that knew what's going on. So that's all trickle. down.

That's all in me. Is there anything you have to learn about black Americans you came over here because episode before this one, we talked about a friend of the podcast. Oh, no. David O' Yellow-O and some of the things he talked about. What did he say? What happened? There's nothing.

We're not too much on David. It's our guy. He's very, very few times. But we keep coming back to this. The wars. The diaspora war and understanding of what it means to be a black American versus what it means to be black, pan-Africanism. Is there any, were there any preconceived notions or any things that you had to learn

or relearn about black Americans when you settled here in the States? I did. And this is one of the things that I'm happy that my parents gave me is like, listen, don't just go places acting like you know stuff. Like, ask questions and listen. So again, I came in, I will travel back and forth a lot by myself to record records. So I was around a lot of New York Americans. Yeah.

New York niggas. Black New York, America. New York, niggas. Flatbush, nigger. BX. Let's go. But like, I was sitting just listen and observe. And I never gave, I tried my hardest not to give my preconceived stuff to them.

Like, this is not how that's supposed to go per the TV shows and the movies I've seen. It's crazy that people do that. But America does an amazing job. of marketing to the rest of the world, what things are supposed to look like here. And that's where everybody gets 90% of their stuff from when it comes to America. So of course I'm black, I'm looking at black American TV

and films and shows and I'm up on everything. And then you meet actual black Americans and you're like, and I don't want to say that before anyone takes it out of context. It's not me going like, oh, look at it. It's like you meet people who look like you but have a different perspective on life. And my best thing, my thing was just listen.

Just ask questions. and listen. And that's how I stay out to throw you that madness. Because the more I hear and the more of them listen I'm like, oh, okay, that's, them greens, oh, we make that.

You know, and I just draw the comparisons more than anything else. And I think that's kind of, to me, I listen to similarities versus differences. You know, and I find there's a thousand, so many similarities. We are the same.

We're cousins, with brothers, with sisters. We just are the same people. New Orleans, to me, is the closest and I guess then you get to the Carolinitis, the closest to Africa. My dad came there one essence and I had the, my mom and my dad come to see Prince for one essence and my dad was like, literally just standing in the middle of outside the hotel

like, yeah, this is like, this is like Senegal. This is like being in Ghana. Like he had a full out feeling like, yeah, this, I can feel the red clay. Like, you know, that kind of energy. And I was like, yeah, this is why I like it. I was trying to move to New Orleans before I came to. LA. But there's a feeling in the energy that's undisputable. And I just feel like there's too many similarities for us to be beefing like this. Like there's so much the same. Yeah. Like it's, it's

ridiculous. I think people just don't basically what you said you did. You educated yourself and listened and I think a lot of people don't do that. Or a lot of people just like even away. So the human way. Yeah. Like they just accept maybe what they learned in school, which you just said your parents were like read a book read this book this is the truth I think people are just

and this just goes across the board in just general just happy staying ignorant and just like staying in their place rather than realizing yeah it's easier to read a tagline and it is to actually listen to the whole context and the tone of which

how somebody said some shit it's easy just to read a tagline and form an opinion I'm always like well what give me the whole thing like it's lazy and boring

it's a little lazy yeah Before we let you go, we talked about Stay Outta. Well, one, I want to say for people who have not heard the album yet, what's the one record that you would want them to listen to and why? And then tell us also what you're working on next. Oh, goodness. So, first of all, the album's been out for a year,

so everyone that's kind of catching up on recent press, welcome. But it is, again, when you make music, you make it for people, you make it for it to hit people at the right time and the right place. That's my consistent thing. The song that I want everyone to kind of go catch on this album is roses. It's Sample's first choice. It's a love thing. It's my favorite record. It's one of the records that I would say this at my show is it's dedicated to my great-grandma, my grandma. My great-grandma, who I'm named after, her favorite roses are white rose.

It's my favorite rose. It's my favorite flower. I didn't know until like maybe two years ago that this was her favorite flower. parents be telling you stuff when they want to tell you stuff but it's just it was a huge inspiration for me she was a huge inspiration for me with this album remembering who I am remembering that there are so many things

that so many people and so many women in my family survive so I could fly I have so many similarities with my grandma coming to the UK and being the person that would set up dinners and like go and this is in the

immigration in the UK in the 60s and 70s. Be the woman that was like, okay, so-and-so's wife came, okay, she can come and stay with us, and I'm going to take care of her and her kids when she had to go work for a weekend and not see them kids and get kept on the extra long times. My grandma's house was the house with the kids and the family.

She would take care of people. She would go over people's houses and hang curtains and make sure that they had somewhere good to live when the British government was doing what they do, what we're experiencing now with immigration. My grandma was that person, and she moved to a whole other country, in her late 20s, early 30s, by herself.

Husband wasn't that good. You know, her husband wasn't that good. And she did a lot by herself. So I think to myself, me coming here with everything that I've been afforded, I'm her wildest dream. And I'm doing it in such a, like I'm flying, you know? So that song for me is honoring them and everything they went through wherever, however they got to it, they had to get to in order for me to be here,

to live how I want to live, to be the person I am. And I found myself in some of the stories. I was like, yeah, I'm definitely the friend that has a few toolkits. Like, I'm also the friend that does the dinners and like everyone can come around and like, that's a touch point,

the community touch point for me and the homies. So that song for me is my heart, my thing, my favorite song to perform. Like I cry almost every time we do it, say almost. Because it means that much. much, you know. And it's a song about doing the work on yourself

and also giving roses to the people who did the work so you could be here. That's beautiful. Oh, said, thank you for joining us on higher learning. Thank you for having me. Thank you for having me. It's all deep today. All right, that's enough podcast for today.

Listen, I double down on what I said before. I want to go to, what is it, paint and sip. What is it called? Brunch and sip lounge. Brunch and sip. We'll go to brunch and sip. I see some of the foods that they have. I'm interested.

I want to see there. I want to have some of the foods that they have. No, the first thing you're trying to catfish, because you really try to shit on my opinion, but keep going. I mean, it's not a... Why can't I have an opinion? You can. But why do you immediately discredit my opinion with catfish?

As if I'm not from the South, as if I don't have family from Louisiana, as if I, like, I didn't grow up eating these kinds of foods. I went to First Baptist Academy. I am not First Baptist Academy, okay? I don't know what First Baptist Academy got to do with it. That's not like some trauma. But like, that sounds like your trauma.

I didn't bring you up. But why are you discreeting in my knowledge of catfish? I'm just saying that like. That like what? I'm actually going to make you some catfish because I make some very good fried catfish. Like, yeah, definitely, but this is my thing. You're going to be eating it like them.

About to say something niggerish? Well, like what does this? I was going to make a World Cup reference. No. No, I was not going to make a World Cup. Relax. I was not going to make a fat comment. I was not going to make a fat.

You're going to eat a fat bitch. I was going to make a real. I know, I know y'all has ain't going to turn down no catfish, fat-ass nigger. Okay, look, so look, I'm losing weight. But look, I'll tell you got something else. I meant to acknowledge that the other day you are. Thank you very much. I'll tell you guys something.

Look, it's not about that. There are foods in Dallas that I wouldn't fuck with you about. Name them. Barbecue? If you were telling me, you're from Texas, you lived your whole life in Texas. In Louisiana, that barbecue shit, that's not our shit. You tell me. I would tell you a small spot.

I wouldn't tell you some chain place. But if you tell me, hey, it's like, Vang, I'll put you on some real barbecue. You don't know no real barbecue. I'd be like, all right, cool, is barbecue shit? Is your shit? You know what I'm saying? Like, that's the Dallas thing.

Fried catfish, Mississippi, Louisiana. That's what I respect. Let's have a contest. Of the frying of the catfish? You and me. Okay, well, Mama will be here. No, no, no. No, no.

You, I ain't going against your mom. No, no. I'm not stupid. I'm not going. I am not stupid. I'm not going against your mom. I would never. Buck with her.

I would never. You just called out Mike Tyson. When is she coming? She gets here to July. I'm not about to get knocked out. July 1st. Fuck with her. Have the fried catfish contest with Crystal Ellis.

Disqualification. I know my limits. But no, but no, we'll see. I'll see what, because they, you say they shit is good. I just want to who, we're just, we're going. We're going. We're going. Saturday.

Saturday, meet us at Payton Sip, L.A. Brunch and Sip Lounge. Brunch and sip lounge. They ain't got like grass on the walls and nothing like that. You can't go to the ones with grass on the wall. Grass on the walls. I don't know if they do that. Although I am going to be in Atlanta not too long from now.

Maybe I'll go to one of them. I got the hawk on me. All right, take the caps off. Do not stop learning. Look, if you see somebody, you go into a place, man. Friscoe, man. Pat him down. See what they got on them.

That's what I want to see. Hey, what you? You got something on you? You got anything that's going to stick me in here? Yeah, we still ain't hidden at the end of the podcast. I'm sorry. That's not funny? Like, that's funny.

Okay, bye. Take the thing caps off. Stop learning. I'm failing to you. I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Bye, guys.