Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - David Oyelowo and ‘Lawmen: Bass Reeves,’ Plus Jonathan Majors Trial Updates

Episode Date: December 12, 2023

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay react to the reports coming out of the Jonathan Majors assault and harassment trial (13:51) before discussing a pastor’s disdain for gaming (38:14) and the Zeus Network’s "Dark Skin Vs. Light Skin" competition (50:00). Then college presidents face pressure to resign following a hearing on antisemitism (1:09:41), and lastly, actor David Oyelowo joins to discuss his role as the legendary Bass Reeves and casting the Black James Bond (1:31:37). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Howe Learning is on? Is Ivan Lacey Jr.? And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. Rachel, how are you? Okay. I think it's important.

There's a lot of people out there concerned. We know that your family's going through a hard time right now. I think it's important to check in and just make sure you're feeling okay and give you an opportunity to just talk about how you're feeling and stuff. Um, I will say that, um, I don't, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll reserve what I want to say about my grandmother at the end, but it's, you just never prepare, even when you know that health is declining and, you know, my grandmother was 86. She would have been 87 February 1st. Um, but I'm, I'm just, yeah, we're, we're doing okay. We're doing okay. It comes in waves. Pretty hairs, okay? Pretty hairs, I, you know, I will tell you one thing that I see through all of this because, you know, I got to call Tuesday that she was, her health was declining. And so I got to call Monday and I left Tuesday.

And I'm just glad I got to be there. Say goodbye. You know, that was like a big fear of mine. But one thing I've realized about my mom, if I didn't know already and I did, but just seeing it, She's just really incredible and strong. And I don't mean that as in like, you don't check on, you know, my mom. She's strong. She's obviously going through it and she's hurting.

But just the way that she has rallied, you know, like comforted me, you know, when I'm trying to comfort her, her siblings, stepped up, make sure things are done. She's the oldest. So I think it's also kind of natural in the oldest. But, you know, she's hurting. But she's, you know, comforted in the way that my. grandmother went and the life that she lived. Okay. Well, we love you. I love you.

And, you know, we talked about it. You were talking about, you know, going home and stuff. I thought about the fact, I'll say this to anyone, if you have a chance to say goodbye, you should say goodbye. Because, you know, like, it's one thing to be able to rush down there and say goodbye. I know you had some very powerful moments with your granny before she transitioned. But anyone out there that's lost someone and didn't get the chance to say goodbye, you spend in an order in a amount of time thinking about what you would have said if you could see him one more time. And that's something that you and your family got a chance to experience. So I'm happy for you guys that you got a chance to experience that.

Yeah. It's true because I thought I was scared to do it, to be honest, because I didn't know what time I would arrive or if I would arrive in time, but I knew at the end of the day that if I didn't try, it would have been worse. And so I'm just glad that I was with family

and, you know, you know how we are. We could just like, if you had walked into my grandmother's house, you would have thought it was a family reunion. You know, like you would have thought like, wow, they're having a real good time because that's just what we do. We laugh through our pain.

That's how we comfort each other, sharing memories, telling stories. and I'm just glad that I got to spend this last week. And again, I have to go back again at the end of the week, but I'm just glad I got to be like with my cousins and my aunts and uncles and longtime friends of them and just neighbors. And so I'm really glad that, you know,

I was able to do that the last few days. Were there pork chops? They were not pork chops. There were not pork chops. Will there be pork chops, you think, probably this coming weekend? I don't think so. I don't think so.

I think, well, it's got to be pork-free. Pork-free? Well, here's the thing. My grandmother, my grandmother had two strokes. One in 2003, and I believe the second one was in 2009. And so she didn't really eat pork. Oh, okay. And, like, really had to change her diet and the way that she ate with salt and stuff like that.

So there will be no pork. I saw last week was in the Bahamas for the Players Alliance. Shout out to the Players Alliance. Everybody down there. Shout out to everyone that I met, Michael Bourne, Edwin Jackson, West, Tommy Fam,

all the guys down there. Derek Jeter, all the guys down there who I met and hung out with. Curtis Grannison, all this fantastic. C.C. Sabathia, the homie.

Everybody down there. Eric Davis, the legend. Everyone. Okay, everybody. Shout to everybody. Shout to everyone. Shout to everyone.

the Black Baseball Mix tape podcast. Everybody go listen to Black Baseball Mixed podcast from my man Cheats. Cheats is the host of that. If you love baseball and you want to know what's going on with black baseball, go check in with that. And in his restaurant, I'm in a colleague was at this restaurant

and I saw this woman like picking up a piece of pork chop and eating it with her hands. That's how I do it at home. Yeah, see? And I was like, that's what Rachel does. A hundred percent. Yeah. Why am I going to cut it into pieces at home?

I'm at home. I'm in the comfort of my home. I'm going to pick up that bone. When you eat like a, a steak, like a, let's say it's like a, like a T-bone steak or something like that at the house. You pick it up with your hands and eat? No, I usually do a fork in that. What's the difference?

See, here's the deal. People pick up the pork chop. The steak, they cut. Yeah. What's the difference? I don't know. It's, I can't, like, for a pork shop, I got to be able to get in there. Okay?

I got to get in there. I want every piece to the bone. You live a pork base life. And then I want to suck the bone. Jesus Christ. My God. I love it. Which is why I don't have it that often because, like, I just don't have it as much.

And I like, I do. I go in spouts with like bacon. And then I'm like, nope, nothing. Or maybe I'll have turkey bacon. It seems like I eat a lot of pork because Van makes me talk about it. But I don't really eat pork that much. To be honest. And I didn't get a chance to say to some of the last podcast.

I had a pork experience last weekend. Good or bad. Fantastic. There are no bad. What am I saying? There are no bad pork experiences. Have you ever had a fried rib? Pork rib? Yeah. No. Nicker. Where do I go? Oh, my God. I will fly to the Bahamas. You got to the Bahamas? No, I got it here in L-A-W. Where? This is a place called Mom's House. What? Did you find that for me? No, what you mean? No. I just went there. I posted it on my social and I had a pork job. I had a fried pork job. Nah, I'm talking about, did you have a fried fried rib? I didn't even see that was on there. But I posted it. Mom's house is excellent.

Shout out to my friend Tony, who was like, because I was just like, I need some good home cooking. And it's got the Louisiana, like they got the, did you go to the one in Hollywood? I posted it. Yeah. Okay. Go to the one. It's got a New Orleans flare to it. I'm out with all of that.

What, like, what, what, what? It's a piece of home. It's going to be. Southern Louisiana, I should say. Since you're not from New Orleans. If I go down there and I eat it, the stuff, all I'm going to do is get, like, super judgmental. Okay, so it's not, it doesn't work.

Okay. You know, it's got a couple of places that I get that. But let me tell you something about mom's house, because mom's house put their foot in the motherfucking fried fried ribs. I'm talking about it was a hunk of pork. I'm not going to lie. I ate a hunk of pork. It was a deep fried pork.

I didn't know if they had it. You know what? Let me tell you was going through my mind. Take me through the whole experience. So I'm looking through something for something to eat. And I see that on the menu, it says fried ribs, you know. And like right away, there's like an angel and a devil on each shoulder. Shouldn't have been.

So there's an angel on the shoulder going, come on, van. Nigger, look at yourself. You know damn well, you don't need no motherfucking fried rib. And it's a little angel right there. He's like, no, don't do the fried rib, Van. Come on, man. We box this morning. And then as soon as that was said, there was another person on my shoulder, a devil, fat-ass devil, like busting out of his devil situation.

It's like his belly's out of the devil thing. He's got a fried rib. He's like, hey, live your truth, fat bitch. He had a fork in a knife in his hand. A fork in a knife. I love it. He's like, live your truth. He's like, that motherfucker don't know what you're talking about.

You better get that motherfucking fried rib. And he's like, not only that, you need to get two orders because what if it's busing? If it's busing, you're going to want more. And I'm like, nah, get off me, get off me, get off me. I'm trying to flick him off, flick him off. But he's too heavy for me to flick him off my shoulder. He won't move. Every time I hit him, hit his belly, he just fucking waves.

And the angel was like, I ain't going to lie, man. I'm kind of won over. Like the fried rib kind of seemed like it's a situation. Boom, postmates order. Order. come to the house. Angel wanted some too. Angel and devil become one, like not super fat. They become one chubby little angel and they sit right here on my chest. And as I eat the fried rib, little remnants drip down and they have something. Let me tell you something. The mom's house

fried rib is a fucking problem. I might get some tonight. It's a fucking problem. I don't know which fat motherfucker decided that they were going to deep fry a rib. But it's crispy, it's tender and juicy. I was in pork heaven.

Don, you ever had a fried rib before? I haven't. That sounds amazing. I'm mad I don't live in L.A. Mom's house isn't an option. They got... Surely, you were in Georgia. They were fried rib everywhere, What are you talking about?

Yeah, that's real. I'm just mad I don't live in Illinois. Aw, Donnie, we miss you too. Who put you on a mom's house? I was going through the fucking thing, and I saw his own postmates. It's so good. It is good.

So good. Would you like to hear my song about refugees? That's a hard turn away from the chop. I mean, Alea heard it earlier, and she was like it was great. Alleya, should I listen to it? No.

Man is getting up. Are you packing? Oh, no. Fan, I guess it didn't matter if we said yes or no. He has left his seat to go get instruments to accompany this song. Let's just the fan, since we have no choice. A one, a two, a one, two, three. Refugees, Refugees.

How are you going to help those refugees? Refugees, refugees. What going to do about those refugees? Refugees, refugees, refugees. What you're going to do about those refugees? Where are you going to put all those refugees? Got to help out those refugees. Man, man.

First off, I'm laughing that you really were singing. You really were trying to sing. Where did this come from? What inspired this song about refugees? So on the way up here, I was on Mark Lamont Hill's YouTube page. And it's Douglas Murray and Mark Lamont Hill debate global refugee crisis. This made you think of it. And yeah, it made me think about the central question of how we help out refugees from all over the world.

And I think we help them out via song. Well, that song is sure to. get the people out of their seats and rushing to figure out how they can help. You might have just solved a global crisis. Alea doesn't like the song. Through music. You know, music kills. It does.

It didn't heal Alaya. Alea, what's your problem with the song? I told you my problem is that you're posing a question, but you offer no solution. You're not. It's supposed to inspire. So tell us what we should be doing. It's not expected.

And it's so true. It's so true. All right. That might have been the Nell in the coffin for you. You might not come up with another song. Oh, I will. I'm not worried about...

The way she just ended that. Like, he's put the instruments away. First of all, art is meant to inspire, and sometimes you have to inspire. What if I don't have the answer? What if I just want people to think about the question? Anyone can ask the question. Give us something you want to think about.

Wow. We got to go to the big deal of the day. I really get no respect here. I actually gave ground to Rachel's pork-based agenda in Pleasantries. And I appreciate that. And whatever. Big deal of the day, wild, wacky, weird trial happening in New York. And it's involving Jonathan Majors.

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Bonus is non-withdrawable and expires seven days after receipt. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See terms at fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash herms. All right, Rachel, have you been keeping up with the Jonathan Major's trial. It's everywhere. I have no choice. Okay, guys know, if you don't know, Jonathan Majes is currently on trial for the assault, the alleged assault, of his ex-girlfriend Grace Jabari.

Now, last week, headlines surrounding the trial went from humorous to very, very, very, very concerning. Okay. I think the first headline that came out that people were talking about because this trial is being covered by some of the same voices that cover trials on Twitter, but not as directly or expansively as I thought.

The conversation around the trial, or as much as this has been talked about prior to it going to trial, it hasn't been as deep. Deep. You're right. Like, for example, the testimony of the ex-girlfriend, She was on the stand for four days. And we seemed to only, only two storylines came out of that. Right. Right.

So it, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's just not in people's much, I mean, I mean, you have, I mean, you have a lot of huge things going to, and I think also, there could be a situation to where there's just been so much time that's past that it's just not in people's cultural. I mean, you have a lot of huge things going to, going on in the world right now. That's true. I also wonder what kind of access people have to the courtroom. Like, are there journalists? There are. Okay, that's the way that I've been following it.

They're journalists inside of the courtroom that are tweeting it, not unlike what happened with Tory Lane's in Mexico. It's kind of the same thing. Okay. But now we're getting a couple of headlines. The first headline was a weird one. And it was Jonathan Majors, his ex,

her claims that he told her to be like Corres Scott King or Michelle Obama. you see that? Apparently it was a recording. Yeah. So it's not just claims. Like, it was actually a recording was played where that was said. He demanded total compliance from Jabari and allegedly wanted her to act similarly to late civil rights activist and author Korescott King or former first lady, the United States, Michelle Obama, by making sacrifices for him.

These are both women that made sacrifices for their men. People were having fun with that. People were having fun with whether or not there's racist. but then his ex-girlfriend took the stand the defense made a monumental error

in allowing some text messages to be admitted to evidence here. The text messages were being admitted to evidence after the judge ruled that the cross-examination by the defense opened the door for these texts. And these were the texts where Jonathan Majors allegedly

urged his ex-girlfriend not to seek aid after a headwall that she sustained. Text from Jonathan Majors read, I fear you have no perspective of what could happen if you go to the hospital. He wrote to Jabart. They will ask you questions. And as I don't think you actually protect us, it could lead to investigation even if you do lie and they suspect something.

She replied, I will tell the doctor, I'll bump to my head if I go, I'm going to give it one more day, but I can't sleep. I need some stronger pain killers. That's all. Why would I tell them what really happened when it's clear I want to be with you? There's some time to pass, and I guess Jonathan Majors felt like she might still go to the hospital, and he threatened suicide. Last night I considered killing myself versus coming home, he texted her. I need love to, or maybe I'm such a monster and a horrible man.

I don't deserve it, and I should just kill myself. In this way, my existence is miserable. I want to die. She replies, I will not go to the doctor if you don't feel safe with me doing so or trust me to.

I promise you, I would never mention you but understand your fear. That's so, it's so bad that those text messages were allowed because basically,

I would love to know the line of questioning that the defense attorney was doing during a cross that allowed this to happen because I'm sure there are a bunch of text messages out there. And they were able to get them excluded because they were probably saying it's not

relevant to the situation at hand. And it's going to be extremely prejudicial for a jury to hear of similar or other past incidents because they'll apply that to the situation at hand. So they got them out. But whatever they asked, whatever they asked, it opened up the door for this situate this or I don't know if they're more or not. I'm not going to speculate that. I'm just saying it opened up the door to allow these text messages to come through, which I know were excluded originally. Otherwise, they would have been admitted into evidence from the beginning.

What are we thinking here? I don't know what you think. I don't know what to think. I will tell you this. I am wondering if he will testify. And I'm wondering if that was usually most of the time. you don't want the defendant to testify because then that opens them up

for a line of questioning that maybe you don't want them to go to have to answer. But I don't know if he has a choice at this point. He probably was not going to testify, but now with this coming out, it's more of a...

Because even if he's found innocent, hasn't he lost in the court of public opinion? The way that people are reacting to the headlines that have come out. As few as they are, the headlines have been damning and damning to his reputation. So what happens with him personally,

what happens to him professionally at this point? I think that... Who fucking cares? No, no, no, no. I'm just talking in general. I'm not telling you what I think. I'm just saying, you ask me, well, you ask me what I think,

and I'm just saying, these are the questions that pop up in my head. I'm just thinking from a legal perspective, not necessarily, what I feel should happen. I just think, I'm more so speaking in the context of, will he take the stand?

And I think that based off of what's come out, he kind of has no choice. It's going to be a last, I'd be shocked if he didn't at this point. It's going to be a last ditch effort to try to repair what damage has been done, true or false, with this testimony.

This is going to stretch everybody here, this entire trial. It's going to stretch everyone. I'll tell you why. let's just be open and honest about it. Us here, other people out there, we do not want to lose Jonathan Mayles. Right.

We don't. Let's get to the bottom line of why it's so hard to sometimes talk about these things in a way, in a way, should I say, that reinforces or empowers all the things that we say that we care about. There's a human element here that sometimes doesn't get discussed. That human element is American success, Black American success, Black American exceptionalism, and what that means to us. And in a society where black people are

prioritized, particularly more than anything else, for what they bring to America, for the values that they present to America, we overvalue what that is. Like, if you're an average black person in America, you don't have much value to the country. If you're a poor black person in America,

you don't have much value, you don't have any value to the country. But if you are one of the few black people that America deems worthy of care, of protection, of adulation, then in a way you become overvalued. You become overvalued by America in a way,

and you become overvalued by your own community. Become overvalued by America because you get heaped privileges and monetary stuff and all kinds of stuff that average black people don't get. And so they're able to funnel resources into you because of how you make them feel, and it's like an elixir to racism. How could there be racism when we all love Michael Jackson?

How could there be racism when we all love Eddie Murphy? How could there be racism when there's a black president? How could there be? Look, these are people that we put up on this pedestal. This is the most famous guy of all time, Michael Jackson. We love him. We can't be racist. This is the biggest comedian of all time, Eddie Murphy.

We love him. We can't be racist. This is the biggest politician that we've had of the generation. And Barack Obama, we love him. We can't be racist. So they overvalued those people over the average black American life. And then we triple dog a million times, a trillion times overvalued them because they're examples of black exceptionalism.

They mean something to us. They mean to us, particularly black men. They mean to us that we can't be as bad as people say that we are. That's what that means. We can't be as dumb as people say that we are if we could be the president. We can't be as cromagnan and stupid Neanderthal-esque, as people say we are, if we are brilliant, elegant actors. If we can dance and inspire, inspire, if we can do beautiful things with our body, if we can make beautiful songs and all of this, we can't be as bad as what people say. And that success means a lot to us.

And when that success is in peril, it's like a direct attack on who we are and what we can be. So we jump around these guys, particularly in a situation where, a woman who doesn't really have much value in society at all is making the claim. You have a valueless entity making an allegation against an entity that we have now overvalued. We overvalue and make them more than people, right? It happens. And in this case, it gets weird for us to be who we want to be. It gets weird for us to be like, hey, that abuse, we need to deal with that.

like hey that fucking sexual misconduct we need to deal with that I mean because we don't want it to continue right we don't want it to continue in this situation

that's what we're going through like I've said this before I don't want this to be true about Jonathan Majors I don't I don't want it to be true I don't want it to be a thing not just because of the time that

the times I've met Jonathan Majors before or the times that we had them on the podcast or how amazing he's been to us, and he has been amazing to us. It's been very amazing to us. Not just because of all that, but because of the fact that the fact that that guy who was that talented, who was, his star was rising like that, the fact that he recognized us and he recognized me, it made me feel a certain way, not just about him, but about me. My proximity to that type of excellence made me feel a certain way. So this right here is like, how could that be? How could those two things exist, right?

It makes you, and you want to protect it, you want to guard it. The reality isn't the same thing. He's probably beating this woman up. Straight like that. No bullshit. Like, if you, I don't know how else to read this. If you're looking at this and you're using any shred, I'm not saying allocations are true.

I'm not saying that I'm on this jury, and I'm not saying that there won't be something that comes out and says in the particular incident, that they were talking about, that maybe something's off. I don't know. I haven't heard all the information yet. But if you are reading this from his brain to her,

this was an abusive relationship. Yeah. I mean, it's very difficult to say anything else. If I'm making a judgment call on it, this was an abusive relationship, I'm looking at it right now. The question will ask ourselves, and we'll continue to ask ourselves

and we can move on, like after I hear your thoughts, what is the value of someone after they've been through something like this? Because we talk about in society all the time, recidivism rates and what it means to deal with people who have gone through the carciful system and come out. Like how you deal with people who've offended, how you deal with people who need second chances, how you need to deal with people who have been in bad situations, done bad things, and come out and then be a part of society.

Like, what does the second chance look like? What does the third chance look like? What is whatever? Like, not the case of Jonathan Majors, but of anyone that goes through something like this, the question is, do you totally throw them away? This is my whole Justice Mullet situation. Or is there a path to redemption

that involves someone taking accountability for who they are, seeking help for who they are and going out and trying to do better and be better. Is that a thing? Well, it has to be. Well, it doesn't. Because, because, because, and this is a question that we have to talk about. It doesn't have to be.

It doesn't. Because we both know that there are crimes that are so severe. Sure. That it's not. The question is, what are those things? Well, okay, like a Harvey, right? Harvey Weinstein. I was about to say.

Okay, I realize I needed to be clear. Because I was supposed to say maybe. Harvey Weinstein. When you look at the pattern, when you look at how long it happened, when you look at how widespread it was, when you look at there was no desire to change, look at how old he is, like there's no redemption from that, right?

There's no, like, there's like no redeeming quality in Harvey that says that he should have any type of path to, rehabilitation. When you look at how widespread everything that he was doing and for the amount of time, I think that's a clear case where we can agree,

like, no, you were good, nothing else. I don't think that you can do it that easily with a lot of other situations. I think we can put Bill Cosby in that box too, right? There's no

wanting to, you know, seek forgiveness, no apology, nothing when it comes to Cosby, too. It's the same thing, which is also a hard thing to accept when it's somebody who, as you beautifully described, what somebody like that means to us. In most cases, the reason I feel like

there has to be because then what are, what are we doing? If there's certain things that are so egregious where it's like, okay, that obviously there's just nothing redeeming from that. But in most situations, you got like, we'll just talk about Jonathan. So we're talking. We're talking about. I look at these text messages and I'm like, this person needs help. So is the answer? So they can be a better human or so they can be... They can be human. Okay. This is nothing to do with him professionally. This is a man who is a son, a brother, a father, you know, for him to, as a person, I'm like, this person needs help. this person is going through something,

this person, you know, threatened to take their own life in these text messages. Yeah, but that's a gaslighting. I'm not saying, it could be a could not be. I'm just going to take it as, it could be both. But like, who's to say that he wasn't true?

I'm just not going to make that assumption. And this is not me taking up for him. I get it. I'm genuinely saying, just let you know that is textbook. Of course it's a manipulative tactic. I'm not saying that. But it also,

Both could be true, right? Both could be true, especially when somebody who, and he says in these text messages, feels like they're going to lose it all. You don't know what they're capable of doing. When they feel like they have no more value or everyone's turn, like you've no idea what somebody's capable of doing.

Anyways, when I look at this, I'm like, this person needs to seek professional help. They're deep-rooted issues. If they want to be a better person in society, and maybe that eventually goes in towards their, career, but just to be a better human being, a son, a brother, a father for the next relationship, they need help. And so I do believe that that that's why I said there has to be. And I guess I'm speaking specifically for this situation. And last thing I'll say, look, when we talk about

societal implications of things like this, we have to talk about it at all. There's a very specific way that black performers wear this, that white performers don't. There is. There's a very very specific way that this is going to define Jonathan Majors, that already will define him for a while after this, maybe in perpetuity after this, that just honestly that it, that is not, that it doesn't stick to white performers. I mean, I think that goes to your point about

why it's not getting as much attention. People have already made up their minds about him. And people are going to talk about, however, the courageous thing to do here, if you care about these types of issues is to be as objective about this as possible. And objectively right now, to everybody out there, objectively right now,

it seems pretty clear that this was an abusive relationship. One way or another. Just honestly. Yeah, like emotionally, physically. Like, yeah, there's, when you read it in this way, yes, there's, which is why I think he's going to testify. The Lakers won the in-season tournament. And people are not, I don't know, I feel like it's, I've seen it divided. Some people are like, go Lakers, this is great, this is showing what they're going to do the rest of the season.

And other people are like, who cares? This doesn't mean anything. They're equating it to the winning of the COVID champion. I've seen some of that as well. You don't think that the COVID championship was a real championship? I believe it was a real championship. NBA players were playing against each other. And you're dealing with the hardships of living in a bubble.

Like that's a lot. Like this is a lot. It's a championship. I'm not a Laker fan, but I'm not going to take that away from them. It was mad people that got smuggled into the bubble, though. They were. I'm just being honest. Everybody around the town knows.

Everybody around the town knows that there was people being smuggled into the bubble. I'm sure. I'm telling you. I'm just. Don't doubt it at all. The bubble was like the southern border. Okay. It was.

They had people that were getting smuggled into the border. What is your point? What is your point? I'm saying, the niggas in the bubble. Man, shout out to everybody in the bubble, man. Talking about we wearing ore rings, y'all say, if y'all was smuggling people in, it was mad people on there. Like, I went Orlando and the whole nine was how the fuck you got to the bubble, man?

You just getting smuggled into the bubble. And look, it's what's happening. I personally would like to say congratulations to Los Angeles. for winning the inaugural in-season tournament. Sure. I also want to say this. There's a killer amongst us. And that killer's name is Tyrese Halliburton.

Okay. I'll tell you a story real quick about Tyrese Halliburton. 2018, I think. I'm at the Nike Leadership Academy thingy and out Inventura County. It's like at the Four Seasons out there. It was amazing out there. you had some of the best players in the country, high school and college, were there.

Right. And I got up and I did a talk. The talk was about the commodification of the young black male athlete. I'm talking to everybody out there. I'm like, look, you're a commodity, you're this, you're that. Like, people are going to love you because of your ability to play basketball. People are going to be able to do this, do that, whatever. And everybody's there, man.

A lot of these guys now are in the NBA. but it was like a full house packed full of kids, right? And they're doing everything with them. They're playing against each other. They're getting sports psychology. They're getting, there's a whole week of stuff and Nike's pouring into them. And my whole talk was like,

there's a reason why Nike is doing this. Nike doesn't love you. Nike loves the amount of money that you can make for Nike going forward. And after this, a couple of players came up to me and they were like, hey, I want to learn more about this. I'm interested in this. I'm interested in that.

one person that came up to me and I've stayed in contact with see me regularly is Tyree Taliburton. Donnie. But listen, I want to, this is important. I want to say this, the way that he's attacked the game and the curiosity

and the way that he figures out things on the court, it's directly, this kid was at Iowa State at the time. And he was not one of these prospects that everybody was talking about can't miss. Like, but there's a work ethic there and there's a desire to be a better person there that is translating on the basketball court. And I synced it. Okay?

You're being cynical and that's okay. I'm telling you right now, a future MVP of the league, Tyrese Halliburton, and it's all over his face and all over his his commitment and dedication to the game couldn't be happier for the kid now Rachel get your shit off No I have nothing to say

Talk bad about black people Thank you no no Thank you for sharing your thoughts about your friend He's not a friend He's a guy I know I wouldn't he wouldn't say that he's a friend I would say that I'm very proud And I could see that he was going to be super successful And I'm happy

I wouldn't say that he's a friend Because I don't want to overstate our relationship but I would say that that's the type of kid that you want your kids to be like. So I'm happy to the Lakers won. I want to shout out Reese and everything that he's got going on because I think that he's just killing it in the league. You know, just because you're not connected to the youth, man. Oh.

Is that what we're jumping to? Just because you're not connected to the youth. It's crazy. Whatever. Did you watch the tournament? I did. I enjoyed the end season tournament. I thought the end season tournament was a success.

I just feel like I'm, I saw a lot of people hating on it. They're like, oh, Pacers, Lakers. Like, people are hate, it's because it's the Lakers. Why don't they hate, no, you don't like the Lakers? But I didn't, I didn't really care. Once I understood, I was like, oh, this is what the in-season tournament is. It's like, okay, I don't want anything bad to say except for the floors.

You don't like the floor? I got used to the floors. I hated. I got used to the floors. Like, it made my eyes hurt. Now, if I had been there, it probably would have been different. But to watch it on TV, it made my eyes hurt. I don't like all that.

Have you been there alone without Brian? Maybe. That's usually how I roll. What's the last time you took him to a basketball game with you? I think we went for Valentine's Day last year. Talking about Tyrese. You need to throw Brian and insist, bring into the game. Two things in entertainment here before we get to the always fun topic of anti-Semitism,

which is not very fun, guys, on college campuses. I do want to call out somebody. I want to ask a question. question. Okay. Church Christians. Church Christians. Pastors.

Simple question. Why do you hate Jesus so much? I feel like you guys hate Jesus. I'll be honest. Like you do every single thing that you can to turn people away from Jesus. Every possible thing that can be done. Turn people away from Jesus. Jesus.

nice guy. So talk about Jesus for a second. Nice guy. Jesus, hang out with anybody. Sure. He, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, fish, fish, fish. Do the whole thing. Jesus, nice guy.

Jesus go to a party. Hey, don't have enough wine. Boom. Water into wine. Jesus. Go to a party. Hey, fish, fish, fish. The cousin's dead.

Cousins dead. Jesus bring your cousin back to life. Jesus is so nice that he won't have an argument with you. Sounds like the life of the party. Slap Jesus. Ah, man, take the other side too, bro. Let's just keep this going. What a guy.

What a guy. Jesus, nice guy. If you don't believe that Jesus was the son of God, the one thing that you can't deny, nice dude. Everybody else being mean to a lady that had to, you know, sleep with a man for a little bit of money when their son is home crying

everybody else being mean to her not Jesus hey man come hang out with me you with me man you hang out with me Jesus hang out with everybody Christians don't believe in that they find a whole bunch of reasons

to make people go I don't want to be around them they do this guy right here Pastor Michael Todd Michael Todd. Donnie, play the clip of passive Michael Todd talking about playing video games. I got to talk to my fellas today.

This controller is killing your calling. You have more hours long. Your wife sitting there begging for you to see her. No, no, no, no. My guys are on college duty. They don't want to see me in Madden. And your kids don't know you in real life. This is comfortable.

This is how you escaped when you were 12. See, it all goes back to our trauma. This is what you were good at when you weren't good at school. So you said, I'm going to put all my effort and energy. And now you're 40 years old. And you will stay up and lose sleep over playing a tournament on a game with people over the internet that you can't see. And won't plan a date night? Cuff to your comfort.

What's the problem, Van? What you mean what the fuck is the problem? The problem is it's a simplistic, stupid, de-intellectualized way to look at gaming. Let me tell you something. You feel personally attacked. I feel personally attacked by this.

First of all, first of all, I play Spider-Man 2. I play the game all the time. I play Spider-Man 2. Do I have as much time to play video games as I would like? No, but I'll tell you this. It's very soothing. It's very soothing for mere reasons.

One reason why it's soothing to play video games is because, you are focused on something and it takes you away from all the other anxieties and stresses of life. Should you be doing it six hours a day? Depends on who you are. Right? But to make a blanket statement like that to me exemplifies the problem with Christianity, the problem with modern Christianity is you're too busy telling somebody about how bad it is to play video games and not talking to them about how good God is. Everything I hear from a lot of modern Christians is about how bad a person is, how bad a thing is,

how bad an entity is, and not about how good God is. if you could talk about what a nice guy Jesus is, how cool Jesus was, how the human first Jesus was, the sacrifices that Jesus made, how fucking tolerable, how much toleration. What am I trying to say? Patience. No, yeah. Patience. How tolerant. How tolerant Jesus was.

Donnie cut that. Like how tolerant Jesus was, how patient Jesus was, how amazing Jesus was, maybe people would be like, oh, my God, I want to know Jesus. I want to know this lifestyle that allows everybody to hang out together, that allows everyone to be cool, that allows everyone to live in peace and harmony. What this says is, if you want to be a Christian, you got to stop playing video games. You're literally saying to somebody, Hey, this thing that I do

that's like cool, that's not hurting anyone really except for this guy and the guy that he says is fucking not listening to their kids because they're playing Madden. Like, this thing that I do, this hobby that I have, which could be anything, right? It could be playing basketball.

Anything that you do, you could do it too much. True. Anything. Anything you could do, you could do it too much. Yes. What is the biblical term? They're a God. It becomes your,

God. Adology? Yes, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It becomes your God. Basketball. Video games, which is what he was trying to say. Look, this dude is looking, he's not looking for souls. He's looking for lights. He's looking for lights. He's looking for shares. Keep it going, Donnie. I'm challenging. I'm challenging all Christians. I'm challenging y'all to be a Jesus. I'm challenging y'all to be for Jesus. I'm challenging y'all to be for Jesus. I'm challenging. challenging y'all to look deep into your hearts and stop passing judgment. Stop talking about who's bad and start talking about who's right. Stop talking about who's wrong and start talking about who's holy.

Talk about Jesus. Talk about what he did. Talk about what he means. Talk about who he is and not about yourself. Leave off of your games alone. We play in Spider-Man too. We're playing that madden. We're playing baldest gate.

Well, the game is in the house. Slow it down. Say amen. Amen. Tell a person next to you how good they look. Listen, I agree with everything that you said. I don't even play video games. You should.

I felt personally attacked. Listen, this is the same guy we know before who put the, who spit in his brother's face or rub spit on his eyes or whatever it is. It's like, yes, I agree with you. They want likes, they want to go viral over anything else. And they can say it's a way to reach a different generation. I do not believe that. I don't think that that's just started though in modern times. The likes, sure, if you want to categorize it in that way.

But as far as leaders of churches, I do feel like a lot of times there becomes this godlike complex of people telling you how amazing you are, who are coming to you in a way that they would go to God, whether it's for help for something, seeking guidance, and you get this feeling or this persona of that, like, you are the one almost as if performing these miracles or saving these people, you know, but for you, they wouldn't have these things. And I think it creates, which is why you see pastors lose their way, because they start, they become gods themselves. So they start thinking that they're that way. I also think there's a pressure, especially in modern times. Similar to what you see with somebody having like a hot take, who has the mic on, you know, sports show, entertainment show, whatever, a political show, whatever it is,

they try to have some, they try to have like a take that could go viral. And then sometimes that just doesn't go the way that they think they do. And I think that we see that happen with these pastors that are like a Michael Todd. He probably was workshopping this in his office or with a group of people who probably constantly tell him yes to things and then put it out for the world to see, church in the world,

and it backfires and the message gets lost and maybe what it was that he was trying to say because you were more concerned with going viral or having a new hot take or something you thought was going to be cute and catchy for social media and the message gets lost. So that's why, like, for anybody who is religious or whatever,

you can't get caught up in the messenger. It's the message that's important, which is why you have to seek it out and have your own relationship. Oh, well, said. I'll tell you this. I'm going to start getting on these preachers' asses. I am. Because I'm about to start asking the questions that really matter.

Like, how many people in your congregation are struggling? How many people in the communities that you preach in have what they need? because we could ask a question now, the church has been very, very instrumental in the black community, very prevalent in the black community for many different things. The church was the basis in a lot of ways for the civil rights movement. I get that. I understand that.

But I'm asking right now, in a contemporary perspective, from a contemporary perspective, should I say, is the black community getting the return that it should be getting from the structure of the church. People that are giving their money to the church, people that are frequent in the church, that are coming to the church, that are pledging allegiance to the church,

that are really involved in the church, are people being fed, are people being helped, are there mental health services that are getting distributed throughout the community? Are they actually doing the work or they're busy telling people

what they should and should not be doing when they get off work trying to play the goddamn game? I'm asking a question. We could talk about this all we want, or we can talk about is the church, because what happens is they come out there and they tell you about themselves

and then a flood hits Houston, and it's a pastor in Houston that say, I can't open up the church because we ain't got no insurance when people actually need a place to shelter through a storm. Now, every single thing you're looking at, they'll tell you what to do with your body,

they'll tell you all of these different things. Are they doing enough work and underserved communities to be able to talk to people as if they are gone. McKin. This episode is brought to you by Sweet Green. The day doesn't ask for permission.

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You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. You love Zeus. Go ahead, get your shit off because I know you want to talk to me about it. You know, by the way, go ahead and get your shit off. I know you want to talk to me about it. Listen, Zeus is the thing that speaks for itself. What is that?

Ray Zipsa loquitur, however you say it. They're going to get out to me for saying it wrong. It speaks for itself. Listen, you guys know my feeling about Zeus. I think it is extremely problematic, and I don't care who comes on here and tries to tell me any different. You can be an executive producer.

You can be a cast member. You could be one of the founding members of it. to see the content that comes from Zeus. And if there are positive shows, they sure aren't getting the headlines and the attention that these other shows are getting. To see how exploitive it is, to see them perpetuating negative stereotypes

or images, particularly of black women, fitting them into these certain categories that black women, I feel like, particularly on reality TV, have to fit in one of these categories in order to be deemed entertaining for audiences. I myself was the angry black female.

You know, you have the Jezebel, you have the mammy, you have the churchgoer, you have the, all these different stereotypes where black women constantly have to be put into one of those. And you have now have a black-owned media network that is doing that to black women. And they continue to keep showing people,

or black people, I should say, they continue to keep showing you exactly who they are. And I would love for somebody to try to come prove me any different. And the whole narrative, okay, well, it was white networks, white, you know, companies, production companies, that were doing this to black people before and making money off of it. Now we're doing this for ourselves.

So tell me how that is positive for you, say, okay, well, they were doing this, so we're going to do it too. Why not take this opportunity to show black people in a more positive light and not placing them into one of these stereotypes that you feel like is the only way you can make money off black people? Why don't you show that we're so much more than, you know, yelling or fighting or, you know, dressing a certain way or having this certain drama in our relationship? Why can't we show that we're more than that? Why play into these racist stereotypes that these other networks have profited on us for such a long time. You are now part of the problem.

Tell me, I'm wrong. Okay. So we're talking about the fact that a flyer went viral. And there's something that goes on in Las Vegas called Bad versus Wild. And it's like Baddies on the Baddy Show, Zeus versus Wild. It's Wild and out stars up against the baddy stars. and they're ripping the zoos. And one of the flyers featured a competition that was advertised as dark skin versus light skin. You see what I'm saying? So it had dark skin ladies.

You saw the pictures of the women. It was dark skin ladies versus white skin. Gigaboos and the wannabes. That's what it was given. Gigaboos and the wannabes. If you guys haven't seen school days, jibouz and a wannabe's something to happen. Go to the bad hair.

When if you're talking of fear, go on a sweat and see it back here. You're just a wannabe. Want to be better than me. Okay. Okay, so here's the deal. And this is my retort about Zeus. Okay.

You're just doing this for argument, say, no way you believe whatever's about to come out of your mouth. Okay, I do, and this is the important thing when you think about Zeus. There's something that you said. I think something that you said is the key statement. that I have issue with or I take issue with. Okay. You said, why don't we show that we're better than this?

That we're better than that. Yeah. Show who? Us. So you don't think that we know that? Yes and no. Interesting. So I think that there are people who think that they have to be that way

to be successful, to be an influencer, to go viral. They have to do one of those things because that is being talked. to them is that is successful entertainment in that industry. And I do believe that there are a lot of black people who think that that is what they have to do. Okay. So then, because that's an interesting, that creates an interesting dynamic. Yeah, it's not just for other people. Well, what I would say is normally when I hear that, show that we're better than that.

My question is always show who. To me, I think that black people know people just. like the people that they see on the Zeus network. For sure. And I think that a lot of black people, if not, know people that are way different than the people that they see on the Zeus network, right? I can go home and if I'm in my living room, in my grandmother's living room, depending on who comes in there,

it could be Zeus Network time. A hundred percent. Okay. And if I'm outside of there or if a different group comes in there, it could be the most, I guess, elevated conversation to people that would make determinations like that, anywhere that you can see, all kinds of things. Because there's a spectrum of who we are.

And that spectrum to me is what's important. Zeus represents something that's not untrue. It's not like they're making it up. Well, it is a lot of scripted shit. Well, they might be playing it up, but we're not going to act like those people don't really exist. We're not going to act like the personality, and the attitudes

and all of that stuff. Why are they saying that they make it seem like that's, that is what you need to do to be successful in this arena. My point is that from that standpoint, the point is that's not necessarily about what Zeus is putting out

as much as it is about how much people like it. Right? Because if I do a show right now and the show is about the 12 scholars of America and all of the amazing things that these young black people in their early 20s are doing

Oxford Road Scholars and all of that stuff like that. We know damn well that that's not going to get nearly the amount of attention as attention, nearly as much attention, shall I say, as conflict, as nudity, as twirking as any of that stuff. And that doesn't have anything to do with black people.

That's with white people as well. The reality shows that white people have are either shows that deal with these huge transformations that people can identify with. Hey, I'll transform your house, I'll do this, blah, blah. Or with conflict. Like the real housewives didn't start as a black entity. Most people think about it as something that's for black people now

because you have Potomac and Atlanta and all that stuff. No, they don't. But whatever. Okay, but that started with white people fighting. Even... No, it didn't. The original Real Housewives of OC,

which is the first one, did not start about people just fighting. Like, you might have had people who didn't get along. Conflict. Forget about fighting. Conflict is what I mean. But there's a difference of conflict.

The conflict is different. Okay. Well, if the conflict is different, I would say that the conflict is probably different because what you're seeing right now on Zeus and other platforms like that are a mutation of that.

specific dynamic. It's okay, this is that. If we want to stand out, we've got to go further and further and further and further and further. But that doesn't mean that that form of conflict resolution, fighting, punching,

doing that, that doesn't exist. So here's my thing. If we can agree that black people were being exploited when they were on white networks for this behavior, why is it now not exploitation for them to be doing the same thing

on a black network? So this is the difference that I, how I would look at it. It's not necessarily, I don't actually believe in it being exploitation in either way, because I believe what adults do. But I don't think that the women in the tip drill video were exploited. I don't. I think that they're grown-ass women. And if you ask a grown-ass woman whether or not she wants to shout to white chocolate, if you ask her grown-ass woman, whether or not she wants to let somebody slide a credit card through the crack of her ass, she says yes,

What fuck you want me to do a lot? That's a totally different. That's not a whole network dedicated to tip drill type videos, right? Like tip drill, that was a song. If you signed up for that video, you knew exactly what kind of like music video they were making. It was even shown after dark. It was on, what was it called, BET? Uncut.

Thank you. Sorry, I had a moment. I had a moment. I'm sorry. You couldn't think of the word tolerant. Excuse me. It felt like I didn't watch uncut. But the reality is you got to pay homage, man.

I watched uncut. Remember? Remember when we did? White girl. White girls. But my point is that's a particular, that's a one-off particular situation with what that is. What Zeus is doing is only playing into stereotypes

and saying to be entertaining, to make money, to be successful in this way, this is how you have to be. And you can't tell me that it's not, kids aren't watching that and thinking, I want to, I want, it's all on social media. It's a subscription service.

It is, but I know a lot about Christian and Blueface that has a show on Zeus Network because a lot of that stuff circulates to social media for free. I'll talk about my specific criticisms of what they did here

and why this is over the line. And you specifically said, I saw you comment that Blue Face you have had enough of Chrison and Blueface. I don't want to know nothing else about Chrishine and Blueface. I'll tell you why this is over the line. And I'll tell you what the line of exploitation is to me.

Okay. But I'll tell you why the Zeus Network thing overall doesn't really bother me. Last thing I'll say about this is, is honey-boo-boo-boo exploitation? Yeah. Okay. To me, it's not.

Yeah. The whole little circuit of that page. It's my 600-pound life exploitation. I don't watch that show, so I can't really stick to it on. But what I'm saying is, like, all of these shows that are either about oddities or about real, like, to me, all of these shows

are playing into Americans' appetite for extreme content. A variety of whiteness. Right. But what I'm telling is there are many, I'm not defending Zeus Network,

but there are many different reality shows that are on Zeus Network and happen on Zeus Network. The ones that people talk about the most are Jocelyn's Cabaret, are Baddys, are all of those shows, Blue Face,

and Chrison Crazy Love because there's a desire from the audience for that type of content, right? The stuff that happens on the real housewives and all of that stuff is really just tame version of what we're talking about. It's really all the same thing. It's feeding the same appetite. So whether or not it's exploitive of not, to me, I think that that kind of comes from the way black people feel like they're being seen. And that's not a conversation that I think we should have with America, Ritt Lard. We shouldn't have a conversation with America writ large about what we show about each other. Like, if there are black people doing a certain thing, and it's true to show that, then I don't have any problem with it being shown.

It's up to those people to deal with however they're being portrayed. If they don't feel like they're being portrayed fairly or not, I don't think that Zeus is an evil entity because it's ghetto ratchet content. They're ghetto ratchet people. and most people that aren't even ghetto and ratchet like to watch ghetto and ratchettiness. And if we're talking about something that's like a little deeper, that's kind of what we would need to talk about, right?

You know what I mean? But this is different, though. The reason why this is different is because light skin versus dark skin, this is a direct. And I would caution Nick and I'm not watching anyone. I will call you Nick and Natalie and Lemuel and everybody from Zeus.

I got a lot of respect for all of those people. But dark skin versus light skin is a direct, direct sensation. I can't talk today. A direct sensualization. Sensinization. Sensationalization. What's going to hold me? Sens sensationalization?

Sensationalization. A direct, leave that in. I don't know what's going on with me there. A direct sensationalization of a real black cultural issue. Like a real black cultural issue, like a direct black cultural issue. It's taking something that's actually very serious within our culture and making a menstrual show out of it.

Let me tell you something. The fact that this was, went from the creative room, jumped off to people saying, this is a good idea. So now we're going to make flyers about it. And now we're going to then promote it and give it to the world.

Shows how deeply problematic all those people you just named are. That should have never even been a night. The fact that in your idea shows me that that same thinking is why you have Zeus network and why you're continuing to profit off, black people and exploit them. The fact that your mind says,

hey, we should do dark skin versus light skin and not understand how problematic that is, how historically rooted those issues are with dark skin versus light skin, how those issues still exist today in society because of how they pit us against each other. And that not even crossed your mind shows me you don't give a fuck about how black people

how you portray black people to an audience, whether it's us or others. And that thinking is behind every single show that they do on. If your zoos, do you have to care about how black people are portrayed? No, I don't even have to. They don't care. But do you have to care? You should care. I think you should have to care.

How do you stand for, and maybe they don't. I don't think they stand for anything other than content. Clearly. You're making my point. I'm agreeing with you. What I'm asking is, but I thought, I guess I thought,

I don't know as much about, Nick, Nick definitely has, has been out there. You guys know, Nick has definitely been out there on the forefront of all kinds of issues and talking about them.

So to me, that he would say, and like, even if he wasn't, sorry, knowing Zeus, I would be like, I need to be involved

in these planning meetings and I need to make sure that if my name is going to be attached to it, it doesn't attach to this because it also plays into Nick Cannon and the whole, a lot what people have to say about the,

the way, the mother of his children look. It plays into that. So some people are like, oh, well, of course Nick Cannon okayed this because he clearly has, is a colorist. I'm not saying that that's true, but that is what a lot of people say about him,

particularly on a live skin team. Yeah, people accuse him of being a colorist. Yeah. They do because of they're just looking at the mother of his children. But to your point, he has been somebody who has been outspoken, who has stood up for black people, black culture.

Always does. And to see this, It is so anti-black. Like this is some shit white people would do. This is what they probably did on the... This is excuse me, not what they probably did.

This is exactly what they did on the plantation. Dark versus light. House versus field. This is some plantation shit. So don't anybody talk to me about fucking Zeus again. And I would invite any of them to come on here.

But then taking this flyer down and then putting it back up to say, hey, you know our aim is to unify, celebrate, and laugh together as we explore a diverse tapestry of our community? That's bullshit. Look, I have, look, I don't have any problem with the existence of Zeus Network. I think Zeus Network is serving an audience that likes the content that's on Zeus Network. I don't think we should be very precious about any of that stuff.

I think there's a conversation to be had about what's decent and what's indeed. I think that's different than having a conversation of how we should be shown or how people should. I think that there's a whole spectrum of black people in America. And the best black person doesn't speak for the for the for the for the worst black person. And the worst black person doesn't speak for the best black person. I think anytime we try to show America the best version of us, we always get kicked in our nuts anyway. So whatever someone would think is the right portrayal. of black people, I think that you can't be good enough.

You can't stand up straight enough. You can't do it. So I don't really have a problem with Zeus. I will say, though, that playing into specific tropes, specific divisive tropes, rich niggas versus poor niggas, a bad versus, excuse me, dark skin versus light skin, all of that stuff. I think that's corrosive. And I think you, and I think you have to.

Come on, man. Like that's that's that's that's corrosy in a competition like for no reason like a de-intellectualized conversation about it obviously that's that I can't fuck with that I can't fuck with that and you know and so look you got it your Zeus agenda continues you hate them I hate the network I just do I just do there's I'm not saying shows like this can't exist I was one who used to watch like a love and hip hop and stuff. But to me, this is all Zeus stands for. All right.

We have David O'Yellow One joining us on the podcast today. He is the star of Lawman Bass Reeves. We talked to him about a lot of things. We talked to him about Black James Bond. We talked to him about what it's like to be. an American now. Oh, deal. We're going to have that in a second.

We're going to end the podcast with that. Before you get to that, we'll talk about what's going on on the college campuses. Yeah. Rachel, what are your thoughts on the fact that Liz McGill,

the president of Penn, University of Penn, has resigned from her post after facing intense criticism from the White House. And attempting to dodge a question at a congressional hearing on campus anti-Semitism.

Give me the audio time. At Penn, does calling for the genocide of Jews violate Penn's rules or code of conduct? Yes or no? If the speech turns into conduct, it can be harassment. Yes. I am asking specifically calling for the genocide of Jews. Does that constitute bullying harassment? If it is directed and severe or pervasive, it is harassment.

So the answer is yes. It is a context dependent decision, Congresswoman. It's a context dependent decision. That's your testimony today. Calling for the genocide of Jews is depending upon the context. That is not bullying or harassment. This is the easiest question to answer yes, Ms. McGill. Okay.

That's horrible. Yeah. That's fucked. Yeah. That is an almost indefensible moment. Which is why she's. in the position she's in. Oh, she's in no position.

Now she's done. Right. Why she is no longer at Penn. Yeah, she's done. Following her was Scott Elbach, the chair of the Penn Board of Trustees who wrote a lengthy letter that was shared on Twitter.

I'm not to read the whole entire thing, but he contends that she was worn down by months of relentless external attacks but provided a legalistic answer to a moral question making for a dreadful 30-second soundbite. I would like to point out to people that these hearings on Capitol Hill were five hours long. They were five hours long. And I would challenge everyone to listen to as much of it as you can.

I listened to the entire thing. Wow. On the plane ride back. And if you listen to the entire thing, I'll say a couple of things. Number one, there was no one up there from any of those three schools. that was advocating, in my opinion, or excusing anti-Semitism. What they did to me was an extremely poor job of dealing with the actual existence of unsafe conditions for Jewish students on their campus. what they did a poor job of to me was saying,

you know what, we realize that there's a point to where speech itself becomes threatening and dangerous. You don't have to kill someone to say, hey, I want to kill you and for that to be bad. However, if you watch the entire thing, it's clear that this was not a good faith effort on Capitol Hill to have a robust, conversation about the safety of Jewish students on college campuses or about the rise of

anti-Semitism. This, to me, from particular members of Congress, was grandstanding and a dog and pony show. And some of these questions that were asked should have been rejected on their premise alone. Should have been like, nah, it's not kind of what we're doing, but they weren't. And it was interesting to see these three acclaimed academics kind of fall in their face in such a public way. But they did. And I think they all fell on their face? At different times.

Okay. Not as much as former President McGill. Claudine Gay was also under the gun there. And there are now calls for her to resign. And it remains to be seeing whether or not you will or not. Do you think Claudine engaged or resign? Why these three? Because we know these aren't the only three campuses where this is happening.

Four, excuse me. Wait, no, three, Harvard, MIT, Penn. Why were these three? You listened to the whole thing. I did not. Why were they the three that were chosen? There are specific instances of anti-Semortem. that were pointed to at all three campuses.

They are campuses. But they're more campuses. They are. But, I mean, they chose to talk to them. Women. All three women. Interesting. Yeah.

No. Find it interesting, too. I don't know specifically what Claudine Gaye said. That I don't know, is there another 30-second soundbite or soundbite to what she said that why people are particularly even more so after the hearing calling for her to. resign? So she was asked about what type of speech violates Harvard's policies. And she said that

basically what she said was that Harvard, like most other schools, remains committed to open a free speech. She said when speech crosses it to conduct that violates our policies. So essentially the takeaway is you can say whatever

you want. Right, right. If you do anything, if you present physical harassment or if you touch someone, then that is bullying and harassment in your job. Well, I think what she's saying is problematic, right? Calling for the genocide of any people. That is not conduct, but those words are calling for destroying a nation, a group of people to completely obliterate them, their existence. That is a problem. That is something that should be addressed. And I don't think that that's something that should be, we should be hiding under, you know, free speech to allow that type of rhetoric to be out there because that causes people

to hate and that then that hatred causes people to act on it. We've seen it happen time and time again. So I think that that type of speech, which is why it's so damaging with former president McGill, has to be eliminated, has to, you cannot allow for your speech to call for a certain conduct either. I think that that goes hand in hand. So should she resign? I don't know if that's the case, but she definitely needs to correct what she said, because just simply saying speech that crosses into conduct isn't enough. We've sat here on this podcast and talked about the N-word and violence that's associated with that. Like you're saying that type of speech. So are we allowing that type of speech as well? No, like it has to go beyond just conduct.

there are a certain speech that is so damning that it equates to the same thing. So problematic, I should say. So a couple of things here. Number one, I'm not so sure that, at least Stefanik is the congresswoman that, that did the lion's share of the work here. I'm not so sure that in the five hours that I heard that she provided any evidence that there was actually any call for genocide. It was just a hypothetical.

Right. I think that she brought up the term intifada. And intifada, I would encourage people to go look up what the first intifada was, what the second intifada was, what that means. And in terms of the perspective of fighting against what people believed to be the occupation, why the first intifada happened in the late 80s, how it reshaped things that went on there.

there was the death of some Palestinians and a car accident that they believed to be purposeful from Israel. And Israel says that that was a retaliation for something else. And that led to the first Intifada. And the first Intifada was essentially all kinds of things. It was some actual violent or more militant resistance. It was actually, it was also boycotting. different services, not going, all kinds of stuff.

And then there was, of course, the much more, the much more deadly second Intifada that happened. And these are basically just like, in my opinion, sections of the hostilities between Israel and Palestine that have existed. And there are specific times when they swell up, and those Intifadas represent different movements in that. And I'll say this, I'll say different people have different ways that they resist, right?

So you might have some people that resist by boycotting, by throwing rocks. You have some people that resist with violation of international law, which would be terrorism, right? So the term intifada itself doesn't equate genocide. It, from my understanding,

it equates with struggle and resistance against the state of Israel. But all of this has to do with a great muddling of many different issues to me. Last week on Capitol Hill, a resolution was passed that said that anti-Zionism

is anti-Semitism. That's breathtaking. It's breathtaking. Yeah. That that happened. It's like, I, like, I, this is,

the House Oversight Committee, okay, the House Oversight Committee earlier this year in March, March 9th, the House Republicans refused to join the Democrats in denouncing white supremacy. Two dozen Republicans on the House Oversight Committee and accountability committee would not sign a letter denouncing white supremacy.

Raskin sent a letter to James Comer, urging Republicans to join him in his fellow Democrats in denouncing white nationalism and white supremacy in all of his forms, including the Great Replacement conspiracy theory with Stefanik, who was leading the charge and castigating these three college presidents has been a proponent of this great replacement theory. Post the Buffalo shooting, she was posting things and things that she had posted before,

should I say, probably came to light, which saw her tread into the waters of Great Replacement Theory. Okay? So what you have here is a great muddling of all of these different perspectives. You have people who are not willing to out-out decree that white supremacy is bad, like doing a lot of work, a lot of work to prove what a destabilizing and insidious presence anti-Semitism is on college campuses.

It's interesting. And when you think about the fact that, you know, black people in this country couldn't get America to apologize for slavery. Yeah. Like for a long time, couldn't get America to apologize for slavery, you know? It puts your mind in this blender. And it's hard to look at things for what they actually are. Now, following these disastrous hearings on Capitol Hill, you realize that there was hundreds of millions of dollars that was withheld.

Particularly from UPIN, I think there was a donor that held back $100 million. Jeez. There was a $100 million donation that wasn't coming into UPIN. And there was going to be a severe financial penalty paid and probably still will be. by these three schools based upon what their presidents weren't allowed to convey on Capitol Hill. What their president should have conveyed was this.

We, it's easy. We want to have campuses that are open for robust debate on this particular issue. We want everyone to feel hurt. We want pro-Palestinian voices to feel hurt. We want pro-Israeli voices to feel hurt. to feel hurt. But we want everyone to be safe while they're being hurt. We want everyone to feel like they can get up and go to breakfast, walk around campus, and do all of these things in safety

while we're having this very difficult conversation. And that's what we're committed to. Easy work. If you ask the question about whether or not genocide of Jewish people is something that violates your policies and you lawyer it, you lose. No one wants genocide on anybody. No one that's committed to answers here wants genocide on anyone. But it does kind of feel like in this situation that this was less a hearing and more a public ass kicker that was more about getting the right scalps,

than the right answers. So there was nobody to, not counter question, but I guess provide. Everybody was asking all kinds of questions. Okay. But those questions were coming from Congress. And I have to be honest with you.

Congress is not an intellectual entity on this. Congress, to me, their perspective on this is clouded by politics. And those politics don't have anything to do with answers on college campuses. They have to do with our relationship with Israel. They have to do with, quite frankly, the donor class that some of these people are beholden to. And some of these decisions by these schools are, they have to do with the donor

class that is going to punish them for their perceived or their actual inartfulness or downright stupidity or downright anti-Semitism, however you want to put it, that they exhibited while they were up on Capitol Hill. Since then, there are people that have

attempted to question Claudine Gay's qualification for being the president of Harvard. Bill Ackman is an American hedge fund manager. who has been very, very, very, very, very, very vocal about this stuff. And look, I don't have any problem with people advocating for what they think is important.

But since then, I'm looking at Christopher Rufo and different people that are saying, is Claudine Gay a plagiarist? I've seen other people there saying, is Claudine Gaye a plagiarist? qualify for this job. I'm seeing this all over the place. And they're talking about is she a D.I, diversity, hire, and all of that stuff. And they're looking at it from that angle. So what they're doing to Claudine Gay is they're niggering her. Right. They're no longer having the conversation about how we promote safety on college campuses and how we deal with rhetoric on college campuses that might make college students unsafe.

they're doing a tried and true American experiment of taking a black person that has run a file of whatever you think or believe or whatever you think they should think or believe and niggering them

and niggering them to the point to where we're asking should they have been there in the first place. And when I say this is a muddling, it's a muddling of all kinds of things. I think the idea that anti-Semitism and anti-Zemitism and anti-Zionism are the same thing, muddles the argument here.

It models the argument here because if you question then the legitimacy of Israel, that means, according to our government, that you're questioning the legitimacy of Jewish people. If you question Zionism as a settler colonial project, which guys, right now we can talk about what colonialism means. And we can talk about what being a settler colonial project means. and we can go back and have a conversation based upon our contemporary lens about whether or not Israel is that because the definition

and the connotation of colonialism has changed. But what you cannot deny is that guys like Jabotinsky and Herzl and other people who were the architects of Zionism, the architects of it, knew full well, full well, that they were invested into a colonial enterprise.

It's not my words, it's theirs. Now, Israel exists right now. It's there. So the question about whether or not Israel should exist or has a right to exist is directly in proportion to Jewish lives. Right. And I'm going to protect the lives of all people.

So I'm not going to call for the elimination of any state that exists, of any group that exist, of any group of people that exist. I want all my Jewish friends, whether they be here or Tel Aviv, to be safe, expressive,

and proud of their rich and beautiful culture. But I also want power in this world to be checked. I want power in this world to be responsible, and I want power in this world to be accountable. And I don't want my country or any other. the country writing blank checks for a world power to do whatever it pleases under the guise of a thousands-year-old plight that while very real, doesn't give anybody the right to kill 20,000 people.

So for me, I look at this entire thing and I want everybody to be very careful in what it is that they say and make sure that they are like projecting, safety and projecting thought and understanding that you will be fucked up if you say the wrong thing right now. You will fucking lose.

The hypocrisy of Congress and everything that I pointed out, it just is what it is. Like, I mean, it took us, it took us 300 years or whatever, to get an anti-lynching bill. Literally, you couldn't get an anti-lynching bill passed. You couldn't get an anti-lynching bill pass.

Yeah. And these same people are sitting on a high horse and talking to people as if they are not the architects, the architects of racism technology. But if they're not the best at it, the best at it. And it's just this weird muddling of all of these things. and I don't really know what to make of it. I don't know that I care whether or not

Claudine Gay loses her job or not. I know I know damn well she's qualified to be there. I know you can't go up on Capitol Hill and like try to negotiate genocide. I mean, if it were me, just to be honest with you, last thing I'll say, if it were me and the question was to somebody and it was about black people,

by the way, in that same thing, they did ask her, by the way, for everyone that listened, they did ask her the same question about slavery. And she gave the same answer. She did. And it pissed me off when she did that. So I can't say that people won't be mad, but, or can't be mad,

but I just hope everybody understands that there's a lot going on here. Yeah. And some of this stuff is about trying to help people be safe, but some of this stuff is about the performance. And the personal interests, for sure. All right, David O'Yellow O'all now, lawman Bass Reeves,

then after that, we're leaving. Donnie. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business to keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start.

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about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. Okay, fresh off of a Golden Globe nomination. Oh, my God. I can't believe we have a Golden Globe nominee checking in right now with this. David O'Yellow O, the star of Bass Reeves over on Paramount. Look, let me tell you something. Tell me. I can't believe that they were making a Bass Reef show.

I can't believe that they were doing it. And then when I saw that David was the star, I was like, we're in here. Boom. He's joining us on higher learning today. David, how are you doing, my brother? How does it feel to be nominated for a Golden Globe? It feels great. It feels great.

Especially as, you know, the show took a long time to get to the point of being made. This has been an eight-year journey for me. So, you know, any acknowledgement that it's working is very encouraging. Talk about playing somebody that me being, my dad was a cowboy. Oh, wow. He was a cowboy. My father was, he was a horseman and a gunman, and he was very into the old West and into Westerns and stuff like that.

So I've had the knowledge of who this gentleman was for a long time. talk about playing someone that has got such a war around, but maybe a lot of audiences don't really know about just yet. Like you are shaping people's perceptions of this historical figure. Well, that was exactly why it became a complete obsession for me, because I wasn't aware of him until 2014 when someone approached me with the idea of making a show. and it doesn't take much of a Google search for you to go, whoa, this is an extraordinary human being, story, time, place, period, politics, culture. All of it is just so rich.

And then you find out no film, no TV show, you know, only people in the know know about him. This is unjust. This is wrong. we've got to fix it. And so that's where it began for me. And so, yeah, that history you and your family are aware of is the thing that we really wanted that knowledge to become a lot more wide and a lot more celebratory. Yeah, because I'm from Texas.

He's from Louisiana. So we both definitely are familiar with Bass Reeves and a story. But for you, you talked a little bit about. it just now, but I heard you say that you felt like this was a destiny for you. It was destined for you to play this in this role. You executive produced in this show. Talk about why playing this particular character was destiny for you. Because it's the only way I can wrap my head around these events taking place 150 years ago.

They predate cinema. and one of the first images ever seen cinematically was a black man on a horse. How is this story not one of the first to be told? So I don't know what I ever deserved to be the one to get to tell it, but it's the only way I can rationalize it. There are some unbelievable talents who have tried and for a myriad of reasons which we know, racism. They weren't able to. And so, you know, there's an element of right place, right time

that means I get to do it. So that's the only way I can rationalize it as destiny because this should have happened long before I came along. So about Taylor Sheridan for a second, man. I'm just to be honest with you, David. This motherfucker is cooking. Like this guy. I can't think of somebody that is operating on this level right now. What is it like to work with that type of Hollywood hitmaker, that type of power in the room? You know what I mean? It seems like with that type of stamp and making it where you guys are making it,

that you guys could just do whatever you want. What do you think about the whole Taylor Sheridan verse and everything? Well, you just said it. You know, he's created. something that laid groundwork for this to be able to not only exist, but exist at this scope and scale. He's tapped into something. He's tapped into something in the American psyche. He's serving an underserved audience to a certain extent. And he's doing it in a very unique way outside of the traditional Hollywood mold system, geographical location. You know, we've seen this with

hitmakers like Tyler Perry or George Lucas where they move somewhere else and it kind of somehow permeates the work itself and makes an enormous underserved audience feel seen and felt and and they get inordinately rewarded for it and you know the thing i'm grateful for is because i went out with this in 2015 the entire industry said we're not doing it because no one's making westerns. 2017 we went out they said we're not doing it because everyone's making westerns okay you guys are just playing with us

now and so what Taylor did with Yellowstone in particular but then 1883 specifically is showed that there's an audience for this and the other thing I'd been told constantly and maybe not

literally but you can feel it is you know Bass Reeves isn't is niche is period. His blackness means he's not global and therefore the budget should be minimized and all this kind of stuff. Well, you know, you have a hitmaker like that

as part of the equation and all of those excuses get eroded, which is again, something I will eternally be grateful for. But the amazing thing is that having been afforded that platform he's created, the show has gone on to be truly global. I mean, the biggest global hit of paramount this year. And so these lies that we get consistently told by this industry and by the

culture and the gatekeepers of the culture, I don't know how many times we need to disprove it, but disprove it we must and we will continue too. Yeah, congratulations on that. And then, and also thank you for bringing this to live. Like we said, a story that we are familiar with, but we have not seen. There have been portrayals of Bass Reefs, but nothing, nothing like this and to this degree. And I'm wondering for you, as you stepped into the role of vast Reeves, what was that process like? And did you have to learn how to rope and ride? Did you have to attend cowboy camps that Taylor Sheridan does? Did you move to Texas? I'm just wondering what all that was like for you.

All of the above. All of the above. Again, you know, they have it so dialed in over there with the cowboy camp and the Wranglers and, you know, that terrain. You know, anyone who's seen 1883 will know that they've gone for a kind of of a John Fordian, just massive Western vibe, which is something we rode the coattails of. But yeah, I rode horses for over a year before starting. The massive amount of research had to go into it. You know, the only benefit of things taking so long to come to fruition is just the amount of time you get to sit with it. You know, Selma was a seven-year journey.

This was an eight-year journey. So by the time I got to. it, you know, I had been so steeped in the knowledge because my view as a producer, and especially when I feel called to something, is I'm going to do something every day to move the needle towards that thing I feel called to. And so, yeah, it was just the culmination of a lot of work, which, you know, now the world gets to see. So you became an American citizen 2016. Okay. What's the most American thing about you, David?

Like what, like, you know, like what, what do you feel like, you know, you, you come from over there, from over in the UK, and you're an American citizen. Now, what do you do? What do you wake up in the morning and go, Jesus Christ, am I American? Like, what's going on? Like, what's the most American thing about you? My children. Oh. My children.

because two of them were born here and my second son, we moved here when he was two. So they are full, full, full American. And so my wife and I walk around the house with these funny English accents and we're surrounded by these Americans that happened to be our children.

So that's a big one. But also, I've been afforded so much love, so much opportunity, particularly by my African-American friends who I now consider family here. And some of the work I've done, whether it be Red Tales or Selma or the Baja or the Help or now Bass-Reeves, it's so steeped in African-American culture. You know, I probably know more about this culture than Nigerian culture or British culture, which are also parts of my cultural, geographical.

journey as a human being. And I love this country. I love African-American history and I love African-Americans because as exhibited in Bass Reeves, the resilience, you know, someone like Bass Reeves to come out of enslavement and to be deployed as a Deputy U.S. Marshal and to somehow still find the ability and the spirit to be a servant of his community and this country, despite how unjustly he and his community had been treated by this country. It's a miracle.

I don't think that gets talked about enough, the miracle of African Americans in this country, and how much they were forced to build it and how much they have continued to build it from a place of love. as opposed to doing what would be completely understandable, which is to operate from a place of vengeance. You know, so I love this country.

I love that history, and I love the embrace it has afforded me. You mentioned your sons, and I follow you on Instagram, and I see just like what a proud family man you are. And I see you always talking about your kids and all of that. Are you ever, they are Black American. And it is a country that sometimes praise on black American youth. Are you ever worried about them in a very specific way because they are particularly young black boys here in this country? Does that ever creep into your mind about what it means interactions with the police,

what it means to live in the society, what it means to raise young black people in America? Yeah, it's one of the unfortunate things about being black in America. You know, every time your son gets in a car and drives out or drives away from the house, you have that, whether it be conscious or subconscious thought. I've had to have the talk with my sons who drive and who are now out in the world. And it's unfortunate that that's part of our reality here in America, but I think the stat is that they are 21 times more likely to have a fatal interaction with law enforcement in this country than if they were white.

And that's just a reality. And it would be irresponsible not to acknowledge that, which I do and we do in our house. But yeah, but they're also just incredible human beings. All of my kids, including my daughter. And they give me an enormous amount of pride. We're coming up on an election year, 2024, and you are a citizen here.

And I know that you becoming a citizen tied into, and I'm wondering if you could tell that story and elaborate that on a bit about playing Dr. King and Selma and not being a citizen here and how that turned into you becoming a citizen and talk about voting and why that was important to you as well, particularly with the portrayal of Dr. King. Yeah, you know, you cannot afford to do a film

that is entirely built on the fight for voting rights and then be in a country and not be able to vote if indeed that is something that you could do. And my wife and I felt, it started with that. It started with the feelings of, you know, I'm on publicity tours talking about the importance of fighting rights and all this kind of stuff, and I can't vote in the country that I'm a part of. We moved here in 2007, and this is where we call home and intend to, going forward. And so, you know, I think it's only right and responsible to be integrated into the political

life from a voting standpoint of the place that you call home and the place that is, you know, affording you both a livelihood and all the good things that we enjoy here. All right, I got two questions, and these are my last two questions. But the first one is a nerd question, and you have to give me some latitude here, Rachel. Go ahead. Shout out to my good friend Simon Kenberg. Simon and Cleo was over their house for Thanksgiving. Shout out to them.

Okay. Love them. And David here was a big part. One of my favorite shows. Favorite anime show, Star Wars Rebels. Oh, yeah. Where you voiced Agent Callis. That's right.

Okay. If Agent Callis is ever brought to life in live action, would you want to play Agent Callis? And like, because all the characters are coming to life, they just did the Asoka series and everybody's there and boom, everyone's play. Would you want to play Agent Callis? Well, there's a dilemma there. I've been asked this before. Anyone who's watched the animated series will know he is a white guy with ginger hair and chalk side books. So, you know, I would, the answer is yes, but I would have to address.

up a giant Afro and I'm happy to have the sideburns that would have to be the Afro variant. And the people would just have to come along for the ride of me looking like 70s Agent Callis. Because we could change it though. Because he's white. He can flip it. They flip it all. They flip it all. We flip it.

They may, you know, we change it. If they're happy to flip it, you know, because I'm certainly not doing white face. We're not doing that. All right. So last question. I know you've been asked about this before, but it's so up in the air and everybody wants to know. James Bond, man. Okay, just listen. Just hear me out, man. Are you going to make a pitch for this?

Well, this is what I'm making the pitch for. Okay. This is my thing. We, as in us, as in black people, the black diaspora, have never. never had this much amazing talent, killing it at the same level, particularly of our UK brothers who are active. We got David. We got Daniel. We got damson.

We got edges. We got so many, so many deserving guys who could, license to kill. I could see any one of y'all hitting that move I don't know that's pretty good maybe you're a candidate

you know what I'm saying like hitting the move man nah David that's nice but no it would be it would be James pound cake

if I was playing all right it's not come on now you got to get the tuxitos okay all right

it's going to be James Gold Bond but but so So what I'm asking you is, isn't it important for the next James Bond to be black? There's so much out there. Shouldn't James Bond at this point?

Shouldn't they cast it, if not black, but with a person of color? Isn't that important now? They're going to talent, David. I'll be honest with you. I think what's genuinely important, because you're right about this aggregation of talent. And I think... John Boyega! Absolutely.

These are all like brothers to me. And I think what is called for is our franchises, our version of that. Because, yes, Bond is a legacy brand, and I'm sure if any of those names that you've mentioned are the next Bond, that's going to be a cultural moment for sure. But the fact that this keeps on coming up is just illustrily. of something that I don't think we've had before is that there is now a marriage of the talent and the audience's desire for it.

And the lie we've had for so long from the gatekeepers is that that wouldn't travel, that wouldn't be successful, who is it going to be? All of those excuses have been eroded by that talent, by streaming that has come along and given us data, hard data, that globally, these are stories that are being embraced. You know, like talking about Bass Reeves being a global hit, not an American hit, a global hit. So, you know, Barbara Broccoli is a friend of mine. Maybe I have a little chat with her. But, you know, I think that the really exciting thing is that the time and the talent is coming together for us to quite rightly expect to see some cool stuff going forward. If you had to cast Black James Bond, who would you cast? Oh, gosh.

I think Damson-A-Degress is a pretty extraordinary talent. I think he has the looks. I think he has a sophistication. I think he has the physicality. I think he has the depth of talent. That's a brother who I can see going very far. Two questions. Last two questions for me.

One, would we possibly with the success of Lawman Bass Reeves, could we get a season two? Do we want to tell more of his story or maybe other black cowboys, cowgirls out there? Could we possibly see that in the future? That's the reason why it's called law men, Bass Reeves. The idea of it being an anthology is that, you know, we recognize that there are so many other stories and individuals historically whose story should have been told, who are part of the law. of this country, part of the legend of this country, but for racist reasons, their stories haven't been told. They've been actively and intentionally kept out of history. So my hope is that,

you know, the powers that be will lean into what the audience is rewarding them for right now, which is that, you know, a story that a lot of people didn't know is they're gobbling it up. And, you know, there are so many other stories out there. So law men, whoever's next, I think, is what I'm really looking forward to. Great. And my last question is looking at your social media, it's very obviously you're obvious. You are a family man. But it's also obvious that you like the dance floor.

You seem to be the life of your party, as is your wife. I saw you twerking on Sherry. I'm not going to ask you to get up and do that now. But I am wondering. Thank you for that. What is the song that gets David running to the dance floor? Like, what gets you out of your scene? And you're going to be on that dance floor every single time.

Yeah, I feel good by James Brown. I will be up there every single time. I still make the mistake of trying to do the splits. I'm too old for that. It's terrible on the Achilles. It's terrible on the hamstring. but, you know, I will try every time. But yeah, that's the one for me.

The show, Lawman Bass Reeves, so much stuff. David O' yellow-o, one of our greats. Love him. Before you get out of here, tell us what's next, man. Tell us what next. Thank you for joining us on high learning. What's next? What's coming out next?

What's up next? Oh, wow. Well, I have a film called The Book of Clarence, directed by James Samuel and starring with Keith Stapville, R.J. Siler, Omar C, Anna Diop, Tiana Taylor. And that comes out on January 12th. Another, what I hope, will be a cultural moment.

I just love these moments where, as black people across the diaspora, we're coming together and just showing out. And that's another one that I just love doing. And then I did a film called Roll Play with Kaylee Cuoco, which is an action comedy coming out on the same day, June, January 12th on Amazon Prime. So yeah, it's wall-to-wall me right now. Thank you so much for joining us on higher learning, but it's always a pleasure to talk to you, man.

You too. Thanks, guys. This is fun of these. All right, look, we promised you some stuff, but I shouldn't have promised you it because Rach hasn't had her chance to weigh in. We're going to have a robust discussion about our niggas of the year.

Okay. Okay, we're going to do that. And then also the top five milkmen. Rachel wasn't around We were to We're going to discuss the top five milk men I want everyone You know

To continue to To plow us with ideas Of who the best milkman of all time are And then we'll do milk women one day Because there's some milk women out there too Yeah but why can't I think of it Well you know There's a double standard

I sure can't think of any black women That are milk women Josephine Baker Hmm She was a milk woman I think Eartha Kip might have been one Earth the kid. There was some milk women out there too.

Whatever. But it's not just about dating only. It's how hard they go. Oh, that's what that's what I'm... That's like the key factor. How hard do they go? Yeah, yeah. We'll see.

We're going to come up with that list and bring it back to you next week. Reg, you got anything else? I mean, I know you want to talk, so I'm going to... Yeah. I just want to say. my, I will, I just want to thank everybody for their really kind words about my grandmother. Um, and I want to thank you guys for, you know, like, holding it down while I was gone and just, like, giving me the time and space. And I probably shouldn't have podcast today. But honestly, like, this is where I feel home and comfortable.

And this is what she would want me to do. She'd be like, get up, do what you need to do. You need to go, live your life, have fun. But I will just say and try to keep my emotions together that I was not one of those kids. I'm putting my head down. I was not one of those kids who grew up in the same city with their grandparent. My mom's from Houston. We moved to Dallas, majority of, and all my aunts and uncle stayed in Dallas, so they got to be. Don't put your head down, me. They got to be with my, with my, with my girls.

grandmother. I didn't. So I was always jealous when I would hear other kids or even my cousins talk about their relationship with their grandparents because on both sides, we lived separate. But in 2009, I had an internship at Rice University for free. They didn't pay me. And so immediately, I told my parents that I wanted to stay with my grandmother because I always felt a connection and close, even though I didn't live in the same city. And it was just natural for me to do that. Well, my grandmother had had a stroke in 2003. And then she had another one sometime around 2009.

So by 2009, she was, thankfully, we still got 20 years with her after that first stroke. She was fine, but she could not drive. So my routine became going to my internship, coming home, being with my girls, grandmother, taking her wherever she wanted to go. And then I would do my own thing later. Like, after she had dinner, we got her dinner, she went to bed. And then I would, like, hit streets and do my own thing. That time that I had with my grandmother changed my entire relationship with her because I got back all that time that I felt like my cousins or just other people who get to spend with their grandparents. And I was able to appreciate her being older. And so,

we had so much fun that summer. Everybody called us Phelma and Louise. We did. She showed me all her favorite stores where she used to shop, like discount stores. And I'll be like, oh, my gosh, this is like a lick for college students or graduate students like me. Like, I'm going to tell all my friends about this. She would tell me stories of her upbringing.

She would ask me questions about the people that I was dating. I mean, we became best friends. and I'm very grateful for that summer that I had with her. Like my dad had to call me and make me leave Houston. I felt so connected to her. She was with me when Michael Jackson died. It was a funny story that we would tell, you know, up until the time that she passed. And that moment, it wasn't just the personal time that I got to spend with her,

but also like the connection of getting to know her at a time where I could fully appreciate and understand her, because sometimes you don't get that as kids. And I would always hear people talk about my grandmother. And I'd always wonder, like, when we would go visit her on holidays, why there was such a revolving door, why so many people, everybody was coming into my grandmother's house. And you used to be fun. Like, as kids, we'd be like, who's going to come through next? It was a neighbor.

It was a childhood friend. It was my grandparents' friends. It was the friends of my aunts and uncles. It was an aunt, uncle, and cousin. Like, everybody would come through that door. And I would always say, like, I want a house like grandmami where everybody's always coming through the door, but I'd always wonder why. Why did so many people want to come to my grandmother's house? I got to know that that summer.

I got to know that for 14 years after. I even got to experience that this last week when I was there. When she passed, all the people that came through and they would talk about my grandmother. She was an incredible woman. She was a woman of faith that trickled down into my mom, my aunts and uncles, even into us. She was strong. She made something out of nothing. She was hardworking and she was incredibly selfless.

She is one of the most amazing people that I know. And I'm so grateful that even later in life, I got the chance to really develop. a closeness with her and a bond. I'm thankful that I was able to be there during her last days to talk with her, to spend time with her. And I just hope to make her

proud in everything that I do. And I just want to say that I love her very much. We're done. Thank you, Adri.