Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Da’Vinchi Speaks on Black Americans, Chris Rock Regrets a Decision, and Bobby Shmurda Gives N-Word Passes

Episode Date: October 6, 2026

Thought Warriors! Hope your thinking caps are on for this one. On today’s show, Rachel and Van opine on Da’Vinchi’s controversial comments while on Cam Newton’s podcast, Chris Rock’s biggest regret of his life, and the cease-and-desist warning Chris Harrison received. Plus, Bobby Shmurda grants permission to a group of people he probably shouldn’t have, and the gals of the ‘Whole Lotta Gay Show’ talk some D, and we don’t mean defense. (00:00) Special announcement (1:25)Welcome to Higher Learning (9:58) Da’Vinchi stirs up some controversy (49:51) Chris Rock’s biggest regret (1:10:30) Chris Harrison back in a familiar role (1:24:26) Permission granted (1:42:24) Honest studs Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Dr. Abdul El-Sayed Producer: Marco Escalante and Jade Whaley Social Producer: Bernard Moore Video Supervision: Chris Thomas Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Okay, big news. Atlanta Thought Warriors, yeah! We have a very special announcement for you. Well, you already got half of it. It's Atlanta. We're coming to Atlanta. We're back. We're back live.

We're back on stage in person. The show's going to be next month. So you guys have to come out and join us. We will be at the Variety Playhouse, November 2nd. You can expect lively pre-election coverage, our usual antics, and perhaps maybe, maybe a special guest. yet. Our usual antics, not the ones that are at the end of this podcast, though. Where can you get tickets? Tickets go on sell 10 o'clock a.m. Eastern Time on Wednesday, October 7th, and more information

will be available at the ringer.com slash events. Very soon. Again, we'll be live at Variety Playhouse on November 2nd and you can get tickets beginning October 7th at 10 a.m. Eastern Time, the ringer.com slash events. Yeah, no script, unhinged. That's what was last time. Yeah, going crazy. So we're going bigger and better next time. But we got a lot of friends in Atlanta, so you'll never know who's going to come up on stage. You never know who's going to pop out.

Yeah. It's a lot of blacks. I know there's a lot of blacks there. Isaiah going to be there. Okay, great. That's just one. One of many. One of many.

Okay, you guys, make sure you get your tickets. See you soon. Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Her learning is on as I Van Latelyton Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lansing. Damn. show for y'all today man we got to do the diaspora wars i'm mad i don't want to do this no more

but we got to talk about it we have to talk about it everybody's talking about everybody oh sorry am i being like davinci and generalizing you're davenciing right now i'm generalizing because my mama actually my mama probably mama what's going on with you mama mama posted big titties on her uh on her stories seems like you would love that Not necessarily, I mean, I don't have any problem with her. The way you've talked about, like, being able, women, and particularly your mom, being able to express herself and enjoy herself and all of that, good for her.

That is right in line what you've been requesting for her. That's true. That is true. It's very true. Now that it's a reality, it's all, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Good for Ms. Crystal. No, no. I'm just wondering the impetus to post big titties and now, like what's happening now.

It's not, it's feeling herself. It's not even about like, no, I'm not saying she's posting her titties. Oh. That's not, she's posting other people's. Okay. Big tities and, you know, just like different stuff. And I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with it. I just, it's a curiosity, right?

It's a curiosity. Have you ever had family that's posted something to where you have to, like, hit them up and be like, what's going on? I didn't do it, but no. My sister has, but for me, I'm like, you made the decision to post it. You're gone. Ian posted one of the Cuevo Hotel Lobby videos. He was in it. He did it with his wife?

Yeah. Hotel Lobby videos. What did you say, Don't? Nothing. You should just send him our clip. The clip of us talking about it? Time stamped. Yeah.

I just didn't think that Ian would do that, you know, just basic shit. Nigg is not basic. Ian is the least basic Nicky I have He's not He's like Nah He ain't got

Ian still He's still doing this After all of these years Ian's still doing What I call the Ian thing And that is Wearing something And then

Acting like he got it From another planet And that you wouldn't know Anything about space travel Yeah it's like Those glasses is tight Right Oh this high goes

Y'all all have people That do this Hey, tell me, you be me and I'll be in. Tell me that these glasses are tight. I really like your glasses. Those are nice. Oh, shit, yeah. Yeah.

So I was in Morocco, and there was this guy, and he was speaking, I think it was Arabic. I'm not sure what language it was, but whatever the language was, I had to learn it. Because you have to go through a cultural ritual to get these glasses. Like a regular nigga can't get these. Wow. So for me, you have to be in Morocco. Then you have to learn the language, right? And then after that, you have to, like, marry one of his daughters or something like that.

Then you can get these glasses. I'm the only nigga that got him. Well, maybe he's tired of doing all of that. He still, it still does it. Hey, Ian, where you get them shoes from? Oh, shit, these? Yeah, I was, um, so I was talking to Barack Obama, and it turns out that he's a craft Shoemaker.

So he does Conlaw during the day. And then a night he makes shoes. He's a cobbler. Yeah, he cobbles. Cobbler. I see, I didn't even know that. When I think a cobbler, I think peach. You know what I mean?

Of course. But he cobbler's shoes. So, man, me and that nigger sat there talking the whole fucking night. There are all kinds of different stuff. And he made me a pair of shoes. And then he gave me the shoes. Yeah, you can't get these. You should call him and ask him how he made the video.

See if there's a whole background to how he's. background to how he got it. He's going to say that he invented the technology. He's going to be like, yeah, so, bro, it's crazy about AI, bro. Like, one day I was sitting down, I was thinking, I need somebody to help me do some of the stuff that I did. So I coded some shit, and I created chat.

Got on phone with my nigger Sam. We went back and forth. Boom. So, yeah, this video's like, everybody that you see, they're on my dick. So that's, but that's the end thing. It's been doing it since 9. 93. 94.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 30 years deep. Acting like the starter jacket that he had was the last one that they made. I'm like, nigga, I'm going to the mall. I get the Colorado Rockies starter jacket. I come back, he goes, it ain't no white socks starter jacket. Get the fuck out of my face, bro.

That's my guy. My God. He was out there with Emmett, Ian and Emmett. Those are my guys. The whole fucking family. I love them all. You have any friends that you want to shout out or talk about?

I'm okay. I'm okay. Are you? What's wrong with your, what's wrong with your energy? You good? I'm okay. I like that hat. Thank you.

It's a Yankee hat. Let me tell you how I got this hat. No, no, no. I have no friends I need to shout out. Love all my friends, though. Delta's been going crazy lately. Have they? I've seen a lot of deltas.

I didn't catch that. I saw a lot. I just, I think Delta has like gotten to my. Algorithm? Yeah, because I've been seeing people going, doing a little delta dance. Ooh, who crazy. in Baton Rouge. It's Baton Rouge, a lot of deltas.

All right. Look, guys, there's news today, but we also got stuff to talk about. There's news. There's a lot of stuff going on. None of it. It's a lot of random stuff, you know? Yeah.

Not like that one big deal of the day thing. I mean, I guess, like, what's going viral right now within the black community is the big deal, pretty much. Da Vinci? Do you want to talk about? Abraham. His name is Abraham? Abraham.

I believe so. I want you guys to know something as we talk about these things. Yep, Abraham. Abraham. As we talk about this stuff, I want to let the audience know something. As you sit wherever you are right now listening to this podcast, there are millions and millions of explosions that are happening in the middle of the sun. The sun, essentially a gigantic power reactor out in space that is flooding the earth with solar energy, making life possible. So as we continue to discuss things that we think are important and things that we think are actually meaningful,

you are being held up by forces that you cannot comprehend and being fed by a gigantic ball of energy in the middle of the cosmos. So these niggas with their opinions and me with mine do not fucking make. matter. Live your life and be fucking happy. Okay? Having said that, let's get to the bullshit. Jay? Yeah. Rick Ross was arrested.

No. Oh. No. Sorry. Sorry with DaVinci. Okay. My bad. Divinje. I don't even know if we'll do Rick Ross. We might not even get to it. Okay. He's not taking it seriously. He's so not taking it seriously. He's not taking the series. But I'm going to tell you out something. Hey, you know what I do want to put in the show?

put in the show Bobby Schmerta Did you put that in the show? Why? Because we got to talk about these fucking rappers now Okay, we got to have a conversation about these rappers

We love y'all But y'all niggas Tessing the love Y'all testing the fucking love I mean there's a common theme Here with us out Tessing the love That we've had

30 years of culturally Learning how to protect rappers Against mainstream America And about people That are calling you guys Thugs and all of that stuff now that is being tested now we invested the long time two generations

three generations into making excuses for rappers and now we get a crowd of white people go ahead and say the end word Bobby Fismerter what the fuck is wrong with you but he ain't the first one to do it I'm not saying he's not saying he is like this is what they do yeah they listen now we sound like see Dolores Tucker and Reverend Calvin

it's just too many so I saw it and I'm like of course next you see the Lord's Tucker what was the guy was the Reverend Calvin Butt's was that his name who back when they was taking hip hop on trial. Remember that? You remember the hip hop on trial era? C. Dolores Tucker.

Vagling. Yeah. Anyway. Let's start with DaVinci. Let's start with DaVinci. BMF and all-American actor DaVinci is facing backlash after comments he made on Cam Newton's

Funky Friday podcast about American work ethic and why black actors from the UK and other countries are increasingly landing black American roles. Thoughts? Okay. So, can, Can we do this in a specific way? Please.

So this is what we're going to do. We're going to play Da Vinci's entire answer on this. It's about two minutes long. We want to play his entire answer, the whole thing. And we'll ask our audience whether or not it changes the way you feel about this. But here at higher learning, even though we can't always do it, we are going to try to not respond and react to clipy, clipy, to try to give as much context as possible.

And we'll talk about some other stuff too. I'll have some things I want to bring up. I'll have some things you want to bring up too. But Cam Newton asks him the question. It's important for me to say that this question is about, it's very specifically about British actors acting in America as America. as Americans competing with American black actors, American-born black actors. That is so key.

That's very important. This answer... Yes, no, no, go ahead. Go ahead. That is the question that he is being asked. Okay. Yes, the question is centered around British black actors versus black American actors. Yes.

The specificity of the question is very important. And that is not... Yes. Okay. Yes. All right, so this is the answer. Humans are becoming, like, more incompetent. and America is like producing

like we baby our kids like in a way that is like unheard of I mean you got people that's 25, 30, 35, like I mean these are kids, they can't do their own laundry they can't wipe their own ass like for me I'm fortunate I was born here but my parents aren't from here my grandma raised me and she didn't speak English so at home was Haiti

and in the real world you know what I'm saying that it was like America but But I had like work ethic. I was determined. Like I started, I could take care of myself fully at like eight years old. But in America, no shade to you guys, the way the culture have like moved

majority of its citizens, it's like you're just incompetent for a really long time. Do you think that that's a, that's a country thing or a personal thing? I think that's, I think this country promotes that. I think, because, This country promote, I don't think it promote like,

like us like really like being able to think critically and being like hard workers, being able to think outside the box, right? And usually people, don't get me wrong, other countries, they have their things too, but I just think like we're just more big. Like when you're in America, you have such a lack of exposure on what's happening outside of the world because you don't got to care by any other country.

But every other country is like, I want to be America. We got the best football, best basketball, best rappers, best actors, best it. So it's just like, they're like, yo, keeping up with us, but it's like, you don't need to get, what you're going to keep up with the XFL? Can I disagree? You think, oh my goodness, please do.

But I would say, but that's why, that's why I do think some producers probably just like, you know what, we want an overseas actor because they're probably going to be more focused. They're probably going to be less worried about being a celebrity or influencer and probably just locking it on a work.

Okay, so that's the full answer to that question in its entirety. Way to go, Jade. Rachel What do you make of that clip? Da Vinci I don't want to talk about it I listen to the whole interview

So did I And the reason it's hard for me to talk in the clip Because a lot of the discourse is happening online As people are saying Oh you guys just clipped it You didn't listen to the whole thing Which obviously on higher learning We do that

Which is why it was so important for you To put the question that was presented to him Into context Because although in that answer he's saying American or you guys, which he was born here. Okay, he's Haitian American. That's also important to note. He is responding to it about black.

So his comment is about black Americans. You can't separate the two because that's the question. Now, if that's not what he meant to do, he should have said it, but that's why the question was asked and he answered within that way. It's so interesting because I was having this conversation with, I was with two of my friends this weekend whose parents are first generation, like they immigrated here. And we literally had the conversation about how they were,

because there's so much more in this interview that still applies to some of this, about how their parents viewed black Americans, how they were, there were certain stereotypes that were there, things that they were taught. And as second generation immigrants, I'm not sure if that's how you say it, but a second generation here, they are more like black Americans having been born here and grown up here.

And so we were having this conversation about more of the responsibility to dispel some of those stereotypes and that thinking that comes from that first generation as they were born here and are more like black Americans. I'm not saying that they have the same. They're assimilated more.

Yeah, I'm not saying that they have the same history and ancestry in that sense, but they're coming up the same way because they were born here. Yeah, I listened to that, and obviously there's so many generalizations that are made, but the most obvious things to me are, there's two things that happen in the interview that come from that answer. One is obviously he's a successful actor,

and everything, most of the things that he has been in, it seems like now he's going to be in Chicago Fire, which is more white show. Things he's been in have been Black American shows. They've been based on real-life Black Americans, real stories. And so you have built your career on black Americans.

So the contradiction of calling them, you know, saying like incompetent or lazy, when the art that you are creating is based off of black Americans, doesn't make sense. You also have been on shows that 50 cent has been behind a black American,

that Tyler Perry has been behind a black American. And you compliment their work ethic and who they are. but then in the same sense, you're being critical of black Americans. There's another part in the interview where he talks about how blacks that are not from here have a certain view of black Americans. And he says that it's not right. But then in this answer, you're perpetuating some of the stereotypes that the generation before you had.

So how on one end can you say, oh, this isn't right? But then on the other end, you're literally doing that exact same thing. So there are a bunch of contradictions within it. There's a bunch of generalizations that don't really make sense. And it makes me think of the question, which is what really happens with the diaspora. I always mess up this word. Diaspora. Yes.

Wars. Because I always want to say Diaspora. You probably could say diaspora. Instead of diaspora. And so I always be tripped up. Harcement and harassment. Maybe you could do this. Yeah.

Maybe not. But this is the question that always I'm left with when we do this. Who benefits when black people argue over who suffered more or who works harder or who's smarter? We aren't doing ourselves any kind of benefit when we're having these arguments and letting other people watch us have them. When we're trying to one up each other, we're trying to better, we're trying to say, hey, we're more than you. We're better than you when it comes to this. That doesn't benefit us as a whole. So why do we continue to do that?

Right. Because, well, the reason why is because one of the tenets of white supremacy, or any type of supremacy, any type of power structure is the internal squabbling for resources that happens when you deprive people. And when people are up against other people for resources, they have to invent mythology as to the reasons why they deserve them. and when you are an immigrant, any type of immigrant, one of the first lessons that you will learn is that while safety inside of the black community might be what you need to do to protect you against white supremacy, the only way to not actually be a victim of white supremacy is in proximity to whiteness. So proximity to whiteness is what you might feel that you are trying to attain to get protection. So you come

to our parties are, look at this, it's happening, it's happening already, our, you come to Black American, you dress, you look, all the things, and you find safety in that, but then when you leave that, the only way to have safety in who you are is to excoriate those people. I have two clips that I want to talk about in regards to this. There are two clips that I want to play, so that I'm not just bad. Babylon and ranting.

Because there's another clip that's going viral about slavery and history and how DaVinci thinks that it's holding black Americans back or that it's holding black people back. He answers this question about slavery or he came up in a conversation about slavery or whatever. I want to play how he views the history of black Americans as it relates to them being enslaved. Play that clip, Jade. I do think it's unfortunate that we have so many people in the world that can't see past that. Like with everything that's going on, like, I could understand. the emotions that it conjure up because of what people of African descent have gone through

under the hands of Caucasians. But however, the story is much bigger than it. Like, Caucasians have enslaved Caucasians. Black people have enslaved black people. We're looking at history from a point of view that is cutting our legs off on our feet to really be able to move forward. and be like smarter.

Okay, so hold that in your mind. Hold that in your mind. That answer about that framing of the history of black people as it relates to slavery and that time. At a different time in this interview, he is asked directly if he feels like black people from outside of the diaspora, if he feels like they look down on.

on black Americans. He's asked that question directly by Cam Newton. Listen to the response that he gives when he has asked that question. There's a stigma to some black Americans where they feel like those in the diaspora, the Caribbean,

Africa, or the UK think that they are better than black Americans. That's true. But I don't think it's right, but I think it's just like I mean, The ego for the Caribbean, especially like Haitians, I mean, Haitians were the first black people to gain their independence from the white man in 1804.

Like that, that is, that is the 300 story with Gerard Butler. 300 distance spot. Like that is that story. You have this little nation that was colonized by France. And at that time, Napoleon Bonaparte was the greatest, the best war general at the time. He was like when Patrick Mahoney just had a little three-year, like he was like that. And let's say you took a high-year-old. school football team seven years seven years patrick moham okay boom let's say you took a high school football team

and they beat them that would destroy america we were like what is going on here that was the haysian revolution it was somebody they didn't have the weaponry they didn't have they they unassimated probably you're just dumb slaves or whatever they end up creating their own language which haitian creole which is uh the language that i speak fluently my first language 75 percent french and his midst with like west african a little bit of latin and Portuguese and different things like that. But they created the languages so we could understand French, but they can't understand us when we speak. And it was genius.

It was marvelous. It was amazing. And so that's where that ego come from. Okay. So if you notice, look at the way the history of a people is deployed in those two different answers, right? Slavery in that time of being enslaved is something that's seen as a limiting mind frame and archetype.

He cares about it, right? Move on it. Everybody had slavery, moved past it. When asked why it might be that certain groups of people outside the diaspora have a bad view or a superior view for their culture over African-American culture,

he dives into history. He dives into history and even though his first answer was, I don't agree with this, he then gives a very intellectual explanation as to why people might feel like they have a superior history to black Americans as it relates to this particular period of time. So just like white supremacy does, white supremacy says that your history, even the time that you were enslaved, it should be forgotten because it's holding you back, right?

It's holding you back the fact that America did this thing to you. It's holding you back. You can't get past it and you can't get past it because you're mired in it and you want to hold America accountable for it. And on the other side of that, he is saying that we have a phenomenal history, Haitians, Haitian, by the way, that is a phenomenal piece of world history, right? We have a phenomenal history. And that history, that making of who we are, whether it be Haitians, Jamaicans or wherever else,

makes us feel, based upon the context of the question that he was asked, that we are in some way better than black Americans. I don't think that it is right, but here's the reason why. So there are a couple of things there I think are really interesting. Number one, like I said before, the way history is deployed there. The history of my ancestors as being

the whipping people and mules of Western white supremacy and capitalism is incomplete and incorrect. It's incomplete and incorrect. Correct. That story is a story when told in its totality of not just the survival of a people, but a cultural technology and a freeing of themselves that is oftentimes misunderstood. If I told you that the same way that the Haitians freed themselves, the Africans here freed themselves, the black people here freed themselves. They freed themselves by a million different acts of rebellion against their enslavers.

You know what's an act of rebellion against your enslaver? Getting married. Like joy. You know what's an act of rebellion against your enslavers? Slave rebellions, becoming educated, escaping, the Underground Railroad. All of those things are acts of rebellion. All of those things in tandem with the great work of thinkers and abolitionists. that lit a fire across this country that led to a civil war to where those people were no longer

in bondage. But our history isn't regarded that way. Our history is regarded through the lens of the stewardship of white people and then other groups believe that. They believe that one day they said no, hence my back and forth with Kanye West back in the day, they believe that one day they said no, but over here they think one day the white man said no. It's just not true. And through that lens of viewing black Americans is why we have these sort of diaspora wars, right? Everything that this young brother said in this interview, whether he meant it or not, was a direct assertion of cultural supremacy. Absolutely. Every single fucking thing that he said.

And I'm going to be real with y'all, man. Yo, yo, hey, when I love that love, man, love hugs, teach me all of that. say all of that. It's all gravy. Ain't nobody going for that. No one's going for it. No one's going for it while you're sitting there sitting in a black American costume. Nobody's going for that. While you on BMF. Nobody's going for that. This shit will follow you to fuck around to every fucking role or every fucking place that you inhabit where we will say, you know what? If you don't fuck with us, we don't fuck with you. All of this shit is meaningless. This is something that we shouldn't have to do. But can we just please?

not do the job of white supremacy for white supremacy. Can we please just attempt, just for fun, for shits and giggles and for kicks, just not acquiesce to the way that they have sectioned us off? That would be awesome. But it does matter for exactly what you just said. It feeds into and plays into white supremacy. And you're sitting here talking to a black American and not realizing the way your mindset, what you've been taught, the way you're generalizing,

the way you're skipping over certain things, the way you're even skipping over, he lays out the history of Haiti and uses it as a way to say, we're different. Our history with slavery, our colonization is different. Yet you talk about we've got to be able to move on past that when you come from a country or your people do

where you have seen the, still are seeing the impact of what slavery does. The debt that you had to pay back, is still burdening the very place that you came from. So to be like you have to move on when you can still see how slavery is crippling your people and the very country you come from. It's just to me such a, like the whole interview

is like kind of frustrating to listen to because there's such contradictions. I pointed them out, you pointed out, I'm still pointing them out. I'll give you another one. The fact that you continue to talk about incompetence and then link it in with AI and all these other things

as if we're the only country that is participating this or our group of people is the only group of people participating in it and it's holding us back. To use words like incompetence or to use words like laziness or, you know, we don't work as hard and our work ethic is different and that's why we're looked over for certain things when it comes to the arts. In particular to this conversation, we literally talked about this last week on higher learning. His family probably would not have come here if it was not for black American activism. That opened the doors for other black people from other places to come here.

here rather than national origin quotas being met. You're here on the back of black activism. Right. Your family. So that's not laziness. That is education. So, I mean, I should say that is not incompetence. That is education. That is resistance. That is a rebellion in certain ways. That is saying hardworking black African Americans who stayed the fight. That didn't happen overnight. It was decades of work that allowed you to live in this country, be born in this country, and then be able to benefit off of and have this beautiful career that you have that is rooted in black American culture. If we're so lazy, if we don't work hard, then how is it that we were able to create an entire culture that people want to emulate from all over the world? That is what I don't.

The way we dress, the way we talk, the way we do our hair, the way we do our hair, the way we're able to create, the way we're able to create, the way we're we rap, the way we sing, that is not laziness. That is beauty, that is art, that is talent, that is creativity. So all these things that we aren't, you continue to either build your career off of or emulate your entire identity off of, but we're lazy. Yeah, you know what? You know what else, man? Is that like, what's it? What else is, I think that we, we also have to talk about, like, you know, what else we know and what we don't know, right? If you know Granville T. Woods, if you know about the fundamental way Granville T. Woods was an inventor back in the day, I always talk about the guy. If you know the fundamental ways that black Americans contributed to science, to invention technology, to the very foundations of what America is, right?

The very foundations of it. If you have the knowledge of that and you understand that. Or if you look at black people as the way that Western white supremacy looks at them as the mules of the world. Meaning a mule is something you can pack its back on, stress it as much as you want. And then when it's over, just take the goods off of and go do whatever you want with it and treat the mule however you want. And that's the way that we are treated and regarded. And sometimes as the way that we are treated and regarded amongst people who look just like us. Like that guy was like he could be, you know, in my family. The guy was like, so you come along and you say, hey, all of your culture and all of who you are is for extraction.

We'll extract it all. And then we'll tell you why you're so bad. Another thing is that framing of black Americans is just very important to dehumanizing them. The fact that there is a defect in your culture. You have a bad culture. So it's not that you are being systematically impoverished or having your wealth extracted or taken or being beat up by the police. You've got a bad culture. It's not that we ripped your family apart.

It's like you don't want a family because you're a degenerate. You're lazy. You're a degenerate. You don't have any culture. You have nothing. Nothing that you do matters. Everything that you do is commodified for you to sell it in exchange. for your humanity, as I've said before.

How do you get clean water? You run a 4-3. How do you live in a low-crime neighborhood? You sing. How do you get representation? Got a rap for it. You got to dance for it. Every single part of humanity

that is supposed to be guaranteed to everyone else for you to get it, you got to go out and prove that you are an outlier outside of this putrid, lazy, and competent culture, this hung-up-on-slavery-class slavery, I am hung up on slavery.

I'll tell you why I'm hung up on slavery. I say this again, I'll say it a million times. My father is buried in Ventures from Memorial Cemetery, Meringu and Louisiana. He's at the front of it, right, along with his brothers and the people that we just lost. You get to the back of that cemetery. There are slaves buried there.

I was raised by black people, but I was also raised by ghosts. And those ghosts speak to me, and they say, Van, you're fucking free, and we pay for it. At this point, Van became a little, passionate. For the sake of everyone involved,

we've decided to redact the next portion of the program. Please enjoy this complimentary elevator music while Van gets some things off his chest. I actually reached out. To him? Yeah, because I want to have a conversation. I don't want to be this reactive,

but the more I start talking, the more you think about it. The more I'm like, yo, man, what the fuck is going on? Like, why you're talking to me like that? This is why it's the top of the show when you're like, I know you're talking about the sun

and all of that and those things matter too. I went you for again. It does matter because it is how we talk about coming together, we talk about the way we divide ourselves and you're not realizing what you're being used for, what the impact is doing, and what I would have loved.

Because we were discussing, did DaVinci say anything? And he posted on threads that his remarks were generalized and he apologized to all those who felt targeted. But if you want to sit up in an interview and showcase your intellect and talk about the history of the country that you come from, which you should, I mean, that's your history, that's your ancestry.

but you were born here. You are Haitian American. And so I would challenge you. I would hope that you would. Don't look at the backlash as a pile on. Don't look at the backlash as people just wanting to tear you apart because that's what people do on the Internet a lot. Look at it as maybe I need to educate myself, right?

Like you're an educated brother. Like maybe you need to understand how we work together, how black Americans did fight. on behalf, like four Haitian refugees. Like, we are more united, we should be, than apart. So I would challenge him to do some history. Like, if your history in getting here is based on that 1965 act, maybe that's something that you should be talking about.

I would just do more. It's great that you know one part of your history, but there's another part of it here as well because you live here. You're representing the culture in so many different ways as you're showcased in your talent and your art. Learn, try to understand what black Americans are upset about rather than being defensive.

That's what I would challenge him on. And all the people who are defending it as well, I know they're doing it because he's fine, and he is. I didn't watch All-American. I didn't watch BMF, but I did watch the Why Did I Get Married Again movie, and the whole time I was like, who is that? I didn't look it up.

then, bam, I never looked up his name until now. I like this. And so I understand why people are so quick, because it's pretty privileged. People want to be like, he didn't, you didn't listen to the whole interview. It's just the clip. No, we did. And I'm still upset. You're too fine to be that ignorant.

I like this. Too fine to be that ignorant. First of all, first of all, first of all, I got to say this. I got to say this. That was the old van. Okay? That's not no. No now.

I don't want to. He's still with us. It's not, it's not, that's the old van. It's not about being emotional. It's not fuck him. It's really not. That is a brother. We are brothers.

It's not, it's not fuck him. It's not fuck anybody. We are brothers. We are all brothers. We are all brothers and sisters. And we are together. And this is, like I said, a blip. That's not the way I want to be.

I do not want to go that route and be that type of person. That's not how it is. I'm too old for that. It's not. I just think to myself. that the people that I know that raised me, God damn it, they had to go through so much, man. Of course.

They had to go through so much for y'all to just insult them. I just, come on, man. Like, I don't do that to y'all. They have to go through so much. Actually, no, let's be real. Let's be real. We have. Make space for all the kids with the funny names.

Real quick, hold on, hold on. Make space in your heart and in your mind. for all the kids with the funny names that had to be in the school. Just for real. Sure, sure, sure, sure. Make space with the kids with the funny names

that had to be in school when it was Van, when it was Jade, when it was Rachel, when it was Bernard, and then it was Ola Jume La Jove, which is Jomi's full name. Mm-hmm.

Right? Like when Make Space, I remember going to, like a TGI Friday's, and one time in Baton Rouge, It's like one of those types of restaurants like that, like that, and an Asian guy comes out to take the order. And he had Kenny on his shit.

And my mama, my thing was mama, whoever was there with us, we get to talking to him going back and forth. And somebody says, your name is not Kenny. There's no way that your name is Kenny. And then he laughs and he goes, no, my name is not Kenny. And he says what his real name is, right? and he goes, that name, they're not going to put it on the name tag because in order for me to serve people at this restaurant

and have them all feel cool with it, you got to be Kenny, you got to be Josh, you got to be this. Then I learned that some of my Asian friends, they have an American name. They have an American name that they go by, like, you know what I mean? So like the want and need to feel a sense of cultural oneness oftentimes doesn't happen in that classroom. It doesn't happen in that restaurant.

It happens at your home. And so that layer of muscle, not fat, but actual muscle between where you feel accepted and where you want to feel accepted, sometimes that barrier can metastasize. And sometimes it metastasizes on purpose. You go, hey, there are a whole bunch of subgroups, but this subgroup is really the one that understands you and it's your adherence to the, the cultural policies and principles of this group that are going to allow you to exist anywhere in the world. I get all of that. I totally get it.

I'm making space for that. What I'm saying is I'm not going to pay the cost for it with the respect and dignity of my ancestors. It's too high a price. So let's do this. It's too high price. I'm never going to pay it. Big mama, big papa will be respected.

The deviant the deviant. Yee family will be respected. All of those people that did all of this so I can sit here and be half smart on this podcast. We're going to hold space for them. Just like we're going to hold space for Toussaint and Duddy Bookman

and all of the brilliant, amazing Haitian people that stood up and killed white men for their freedom. We're going to do it all together. We're not going to poke at each other because it's not we ain't supposed to bleed that way. So it's not fuck you. I'm sorry.

Leave it all in the podcast. Watch it happen in real time. It's not that. But got to do better, guys. This is corrosive. Now we've got to have a conversation. Now it's got to be some people. You know who's really enjoying this?

The CIA. The CIA is, oh, he got another one. Let's send some bots to make Van mad. Van is on the podcast again going crazy. So that can be clipped and put out there. and then like let's continue it so they can continue to fight so we can continue to divvy up the resources.

God damn it, they got me again. I can't stop. It's funny when you watch like I can see when it's happening. To me? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, no, no, no, no, no, man, it is you. We love you. But I, and I applaud you for always wanting to be better. But it is funny because I'm like watching you and I'm like,

there's bigger things, but we have to talk about it. And I'm watching you and like, the more, I'm like, okay, he's talking about our history. He's talking about who we are. He's realizing that somebody is minimizing our experience. Like, I'm watching it. And as, like, you keep going and going, and it's like the words are more powerful, and it was great.

And then I was like, he's going to, it's going to happen. And it happened. It happened. But, Van, in your defense, to watch someone sit up there. And it was, it was, like, you can say things weren't right. You can say you didn't believe these things. speak, it was a very, it felt pompous in watching speak and the underlying, and watching him speak and the underlying tone

was minimizing us as a black American culture. And I'm with you. Like, I know what my ancestors did to be able to provide for us, whether it's land, like the sacrifice of land, both sides of my family have land. Like, that is, and I know what they went through to get that. And what we go through to keep that in the family. education, sacrifice for education, all of that, so they could have a, you could have a better life, but they weren't stupid. They weren't, you know, like caught up in, they weren't lazy. They weren't using, they were educated on what their history was in this country, but they

weren't using it as a tool to, or as a thing to hold them back so they didn't have to do anything. No, despite all of everything that was against them. Jim Crow laws, not being able to vote, not being able to open bank accounts, not being able to have, land, red line laws, all these things against them, they still were able to accomplish things and pass those things down to the next generation. And to watch somebody sit there and that might not have been as intent. And I'm sure he didn't think of it as deeply because there does seem to be a separation of how he sees himself versus black Americans and a lack of understanding, an ignorance.

That is frustrating to see somebody do that. And then it's frustrating to see people defend that. And I just wish, and I, and I, we keep having these conversations. Like I literally, in my own friend group, was having it. Now, they weren't like that. It was a beautiful conversation, but it was really interesting to see the things that they were told. And I have other friends that, you know, like either they immigrated here or their parents immigrated. They would tell me things that they were taught in school in some of these places about us.

So it's, and it's a couple that too for people who are like, oh, that's somebody who's talking about. There are so many other interviews out there where he was, he literally will say we were told to think this about black Americans. Yeah. Look, young guy. And it's actually sad that that's what we do. Young guy. By the way, it's like, this is, you know, I just, look. I told you guys the back in the day the story about, I'm okay.

You're okay. You know, you guys, like, you know, I just, I, sometimes for me, I'm just too connected to South Louisiana. I think the world of those people. I really do. Why should you not be, though? But like in a different way, like they're superheroes to me. They should be. If you ever seen somebody, it is going to sound really stupid.

So everybody, continue with me on this run of stupid that I'm on right now. If you ever seen somebody, trigger warning to all my vegans, you ever see someone skin a deer? Yes. Field dress, a deer. you ever see somebody tell you the story of who you are while they take the hide off of an animal and then prepare that animal for consumption while they live with like white boys running around killing deers liming it out throwing 30 just going around you look at somebody's the flatbed of somebody's truck I'll never forget you know my father called out somebody that we knew for this

there's a deer in there and the deer had spots on it. Mm-hmm. And my dad looks and my dad looks up. I remember he did the thing up. It's like, oh, you have some spots right there. You know what that means with the deer has spots?

What? It's a fawn. Oh, on it. Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. It's a fawn. It's a baby deer. Bambi.

You know, it's a faun, right? He's like, um, you know, and my dad, uh-huh. And my dad then asserted the law. my father, this tremendously flawed man with all of these bad ideas and whatever like that, he then asserted the law of nature. Like, how do you feel about yourself that you killed a child? These guys are fucking heroes to me. I don't know, like, these women, like, these women that took other people's kids in and taught

other people's kids and, like, had this insane, like, elegant wisdom. I'm riding on the back of the horse. The horse fucking takes off. All the men in the family are like, look at the family. Look at that baby. Why that horse? Look at that boy.

That boy is a fucking man. All the women are like, you fucking idiots put that baby on the back of that fucking horse. You're stupid. You're dumb. Come in here, boy. And then they fucking dress my face up.

Are you found? No, I didn't fall. No, I didn't fall. Okay. I held on. Okay. All right. I had a horse named Silver.

I smacked Silver. Silver took off. Okay. Okay. So why are they fixing your face? Well, because all I knew at that moment, I told the story before was to hold on to the horn of the saddle. So Silver goes back up on his hind legs. He comes down, boom.

I hit my head on the horn of the saddle. Oh, yikes. And so my shit kind of splits open right here. Yeah. The men are going crazy, so happy that I held on to the horse. I'm officially a man in the family now. The women come all, come out of the papa's house, and they right away write this. Make every single man that's cheering see himself like that.

Like that's a baby. That's a child. Y'all put them in danger. They get me in there. They patch me up. I never forget this. I started crying. And she goes, nope, you didn't cry out there.

Don't cry in here. Yeah. It's okay. She says, you didn't cry out there. Don't cry in here. Maybe that was the wrong advice, but let your tears not be because we're watching you. You know what I'm saying? I just, I don't know.

It's wisdom. No, I get it. All of those people are just, it's like, don't talk about them. Can we not talk about them? Yeah, yeah. You know? Yeah, yeah. Just all, yeah, age, rat brown.

I like him. I could go on it. But look, yo, it's still good. We're together. Hopefully he learns. Yeah, I think that he will. That's all we can ask. I think that he will.

I think that he will. We're, we're, it's fine, you know. Still, you know, everything that I think, hey, it's okay, guys. I'm saying it right now. Rachel, is it okay? It's okay. It's okay. It's okay.

It's okay. Yeah, it's okay. Nah, Jade not fucking with it. We have, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, Jade. Jade, like, get it off your chest, Jade. You're like, Jay's not fucking with it, Jade. It's just not the first time I've heard this or heard this from somebody. Probably won't be the last.

I hope he takes the constructive criticism. It moves forward with it. That's all I can say. Love man. We, we, we. Bernard, do you have anything to add? This is going to be an adventure. Jesus Christ.

No, we can. We can. Yeah, get it. Get the fucking, get the fucking, off of Bernard. Yeah. Jay, let's talk about somebody else who's learned something.

Oh. Chris Rock is opening up about a decision that still haunts him, refusing to help pay for a lawyer for Roger Logan, the brother of one of his closest childhood friends who was later found to have been wrongfully convicted of murder. Rock discussed the story on the New York Times, the interview podcast. Let's see what he had to say. Hey, man, I'm black.

What does that mean? When you're black, white people believe every accusation is a conviction. I grew up 619 Decatur Street between Howard and Saratoga. If you go on your phone and punch up Roger Logan exonerated, a guy named Roger Logan, who I grew up with, who was one of my best friends' brothers, went to jail for 19 years for a murder he didn't commit. And here's a weird thing.

Yeah. His brother used to plead with me to pay for a lawyer for Roger, and I never did it. I always had like a no lawyer thing because a lawyer is like an open-ended thing. Like, I'll pay your mortgage, I'll put whatever. There's a bunch of shit I've paid for education,

all sorts of shit. I always stay out of lawyers because it's so open-ended. And it still fucks with me. I was like, I had the means to help him. and I didn't. And I don't know if we could have got them out or not, but still. So all that to say is I'm black.

Black men get accused of shit. They didn't do all the time. Every day in the paper, we let black men out of jail. We go, whoops. Who, that black guy just did 30 years. Too bad. So, I don't know. To answer your question,

when there's a convict, you know, like all this rumor shit, you know, I'm not, hey, hopefully I don't get accused of anything, but you know what I mean? Like, I'm handling it from a real place, you know, this shit's real when people get accused of things. And you better be real sure they did it. So look, okay. love, you know, love is what we're doing on the podcast. It's about love and understanding. And we understand, we understand we have understanding for people, and nobody's, you know, people make mistakes and stuff.

you know the thing is like what's the what's the purpose of the money like what's the what's the purpose of them you can't you know what you can't tell people all right love

love you can't tell people how to spend their money you can't you would think that they would spend it for freedom or if you have no no no if you have it look all right got it the thought is formed

boom this is fucked up okay it's like take your time okay all right nice this is not

because I'm in the stage of love okay oh I remember this man remember him yes we haven't seen him in a while yeah

he's back is he back okay because he wasn't in the last thing well here's a deal he was he came back he's back

I'm in the stage of love I would just say that like that that rule is not in my opinion a good rule I wouldn't tell the no lawyer rule of the no lawyer rule look lawyers are expensive and that's true so anywhere out there right now to anyone who is you know not famously and filthy rich

not paying for somebody's lawyer you don't it is a tremendous expense to take on right but even if you don't pay for somebody's lawyer in perpetuity Correct. Even if you don't pay for the lawyer all the way to the final verdict of the case, for someone to be like, hey, I grew up with you and I really did not do this. Like, for real.

It's his best friend's brother. You know when a nigga did. You know what a nigga saying I didn't do it and he did it. We've all had these conversations. Hey, bruh, you did it. How's that? I'm telling you, bro, I didn't. Hey, man, look, I'm going to send you this, but don't do me like that.

You did it. it. You know, I'm sending you this for the time that we watched the He-Man 1987. I'm sending you this for the time that we played war in the neighborhood. One of our homeboys had survivor shot. And it was this game where you put like a deal on your head, you hit it. It's like laser tag around the neighborhood. One of his aunts and uncles gave it to him. And we played survivor shot around the neighborhood. We had a summer of survivor shot that was so beautiful that it almost makes me emotional now. Got in some trouble,

I paid for it. And when I, when the reason for the thing happened, I put survivor shot on there. Because that, that memory was worth me coming out of whatever, 10 to 15,000, whatever the fuck it was, right? And it's not what this would have to pay. I'm not. So I say all that to say that that rule ain't a good rule. It's a rule that I can understand for Chris Rock, but if you up 50, 60, 100 million, I don't want to count your money, but that's a tough one. Well, he said he could afford it in this interview. He said he could have afforded it.

And it's clear that he's sitting with a lot of regret because when I watched this, I was like, why, maybe you should have kept this one to yourself. Like, why are you talking about this right now? the man who was wrongly convicted, the best friend's brother, he's been out for over 10 years. This is clearly something that's weighing on him, and I'll give him credit for being honest

and regretting the mistake, what he feels was a mistake. He feels as a mistake. However, this rule he had, it's a rule he placed on himself. It's not like your money, there was rules on your money, that if you gave it to a lawyer,

you would lose it or something like that. It's like a rule. that you could have been more lenient on. You could have evaluated this situation different from that. And I say that, or from another legal situation, I say that because in the clip that we're watching in this interview, he talks about what it is to be black. He talks about what it is to be black

and be wrongfully accused. He talks what it is to be black and be like what black people go through in this country when it comes with the criminal justice system. He knows all of those things. He's acknowledging the fact that he's black. And I would imagine that you knew those things back then as well. And you still, despite that knowledge, those feelings, being a black man, having to navigate

as a black man in this country, you still said no. And to your point, it's not like it was like, hey, this is a random person. I'm just helping in the community. It was somebody that you grew up with and you knew. And so when you look at the statistics of how many black people are in this country, versus the percentage of how many black people are exonerated. It's like there is a clear pattern of being accused, which he addresses briefly,

people are quick to accuse black people for criminal activity. So it's just this, obviously there's this regret and he's revisiting it. But yeah. And I know that people are litigating, like, should he have had to? No, he doesn't have to. But there is this knowledge that he clearly has of how black people are.

treated in this country when it comes to crime. You know that black people, accusations are made on them more frequently than other races. You know these things, and it seems like there wasn't even in consideration. And he further goes, it's not even that he's like,

I don't give money, right? Because I have some rich friends who are like, you got a one-time rule to ask me for something. Better make it good. He says, I'm willing to give money for education. That could be above six figures. I'm willing to give money for,

maybe he says mortgages or stuff like that, but not with lawyers. Again, you could have contributed. You could have done something else, but instead you just stuck to it when this was like something that was personal to you. It's not like somebody was asking you to donate to a fund of a stranger.

So, okay, so we could like go through the entire litany of things that could have been done, right? Because you could go, hey, I'm Chris Rock, one night only at the Apollo I'm doing a show and I'm doing the show for my homie's legal fees like there's a million things you could have done

like right you know what I mean there's a like you could So why? So but okay so let's let's do two things here let's number one talk about just that all of this is part of the plan as well right when

discord in families and in communities is a part of the plan here, period. So tell you guys why that's important to name. Somewhere right now, you are a black person, probably if you're listening to this podcast. If you listen to this podcast, you're probably on your way to success.

If you're not listening to this podcast, I pray that you're on your way to success. Most of the time, some of the time, a little bit of the time, depending on frequency. those are all different frequencies of things. You're black and you become successful and there are things that you have to deal with

after you're successful that other groups might not. Meaning you're successful and now you have to kind of deal with all of the people around you that you really were around when you didn't have anything and society's effect on their lives. I want you to know

that your friends, that are white and from other backgrounds don't have to deal with that. So because society levies less of a tax on them, they don't have to have conversations about who they bailing out of jail. They don't have to have conversations

about who need this for that. These are specific taxes that you pay for the dysfunction of American white supremacy, capitalism, and racism. And those things are a part of the albatross

that kind of hold you back because then what happens, right? You lose your sense of like cultural solidarity because you go, the only way for me to not have to pay that tax or be in solidarity or community with those people is to pick a new community is to surround myself with people

that fit a certain bill that are wealthy or well-to-do or like your own, and I'm not around those people anymore so they can't ask me for anything. I no longer have any need for them. We all ate the same sausage sandwich, or fucking not even sausage.

They ain't had no sausages. That's protein. Fucking mayonnaise and syrup sandwiches when we was kid. Now that I don't have to ask Cynthia and them for no more food, they can't ask me for nothing. I didn't made it and I'm out. Right?

That way you don't have to continue to pay that tax because you'll pay that tax in perpetuity. So that whole thing is a set of problems that only exists, not only exist, but tend to exist amongst a group of people of people that are going through all of this. Sure. So I get that. At the same time, I continue

to come back to this criticism that I'm going to continue to have, what's the point of making all the money then? If making all of the money and continuing to rise up the ladder, if that incinerates community and solidarity,

what's the point? Is it just about competition? Last thing I'll say about this as well. It's like, if I'm being all the way real and I don't really I don't know Chris Rock I met him a couple of times

one time I was running around Echo Park at like 7 in the morning Oh and he was there He was just walking around Echo Park Walking around Echo Park Women would Women turn around and looked

And it's like oh my gosh Chris Rock walking around at Oak Park So you know We might have some of the same entanglements in our mind It would be like dishonest with me With the audience

not to say that this statement from Chris Rock this is not in a vacuum I'm not going to pit brothers against each other

but there was an interview I heard not too long ago where there was some discussion about him not taking his brothers out on tour with him

or one of his brothers out on tour with him and you know while that's their business while that's their thing there does to be some there,

seem to be some there there when it comes to this. And maybe there's something going on. And in this, as much space as I want to give him for, it really feels like he regrets that. No, it absolutely does. It really feels like he regrets that. Just the larger conversation is

that tax that I'm talking about, like that's the tax that you pay to me. It's not even a tax. Like, that's a part of the solidarity of well-to-do black people and black people that are not well-to-do. And I'm not acting like I'm always good about this. Sometimes people ask you for showing you're like, God damn it. Yeah, you can't. You know what I'm saying?

So I'm not saying I'm good about this. I'm just saying that, I don't know, man. I just think that when you're like, well, what's the point of making the money? That. To do whatever you want with that, I guess. Yeah, like, I mean, people are motivated for, you know, like wanting to make a lot of money for different reasons. and to pull from the last conversation, it is something that Abraham says in it

when he says, he talks about wealth because he's talking about BMF and fame and power and how it changes people. And he's like, when you get wealth and you start getting money, you really can see what someone's character is out of what they do with it. What motivates them or why they want the money

often can determine how they utilize it. Well, nobody wants the money to give it away. Well, that's, I mean, but you, when you, I want to make a certain amount of money so I can give back. I want to make a certain amount of money so I can help my community. All horseshit.

I want to, well, I would like to think that do you not give back? I don't say all your money. No. Like it, like it, people that, people, every time somebody says that, they're trying to sell you something to me. Well, I, but maybe they don't say it, but they do it.

Yeah. Can I just say that? Like, you said, what's the point? I would think, like, there would be a certain amount. When I make money, there's a certain, I think about certain things that I want to give back to. I think about, I don't talk. about it all the time. It's not what I lead with.

So just to refute that point. But my point is, I guess that Nobody makes money so they can turn around and get the money away. That's not what I'm saying. I don't want to argue this point. That's not what I'm saying. Hey, hey, hey, guess what? I challenge you. But you said the thing about Chris Rock

about like, what's the point of it? And I'm saying that people are motivated to make money and then do with their money for different reasons. I think the confusing thing to me is, I understand that this is weighing on him and that is very obvious. And I think that that's why he talks about I'm black and then, you know, talks about how black people are viewed, particularly when it comes to crime. But I don't, I would have loved

to more understand the why. Because to me, him just saying I have a no lawyer rule doesn't make a sense. But it does. It doesn't make sense to me. I'm almost like, and I think this is also what people are struggling with because there are certain narratives out there about Chris Rock when it comes to the black community that maybe he's made light of certain things that we like the N-word, that we hold dear of like that is a line that we, you know, you don't cross, that maybe he's made it a little bit more, which is why he stopped doing one of his bits because you're making people, white people or other races feel more comfortable with those things that we have a hard line against. Or when he was hosting the Oscars and there was the Oscars so white and he kind of

watered it down. There's certain narratives out there, I think about Chris Rock, that when you hear this story and then maybe certain people feel a certain way about him because of the past, it makes it seem like the why you did it, didn't do it, feels like more than just, I had a no lawyer rule. Like, why didn't you want to? Did you not, and this is assumptions, but like, did you not want to be affiliated with that? Do you not want, you know, to give your money what it had to do with a crime? Were you building your career? Did you not want, It just brings up these questions, and we'll never know. He said his answer was no lawyer.

We'll never know. But I think it's bringing about some of these conversations because there are certain narratives out there that exist with him. Yeah, I think even a rule like that would be because it's something that you would have to pay for a lot with a lot of different people. You have a lot of your friends that run into trouble with the law. And if you start doing that, when he talks about playing for a mortgage, you probably are in a situation where you have to pay a lot more lawyer's fees than you would mortgages. You have to pay a lot more like the tuitions and the lawyers and the mortgages and all of that stuff.

Those outcomes might not be as prevalent as the lawyer fees. If you're known as the person that somebody can just come to whenever they need a lawyer, then that might be something that you're on the hook for, which goes back to the fact that there is an extra added. sort of expectation of black people with means, when they get those means, all of those things people start to see as a drain on their wealth or their earning capacity, right? There are all kinds of stuff that, like, decisions that they have to make that other people might not have to make.

In this one, you know, my hesitation comes from, A, telling somebody how to count their money and making determinations about people that, you know, I don't really know. But at the same time, it's like, I don't know. I think we should have a general conversation about the fact that if you got some bread and you can do something, we should try to find a way to be invested into mutual aid and situations like that if we can. To your level. I'm not telling a person out there that's, like, to your level, to the level that you can handle it,

to the level that you can do it, it's a good practice. And I see why people are upset about this, but this was a tough one. But at the same time, there's something noble about admitting it. I agree. So I started it off.

He could have kept it to himself. Yeah, it seems like he's really struggling with it. And maybe there's more of a struggle with just his perception because he kept saying, I'm a black man, I'm black. He kept saying that. So, you know, see what happens, man.

I don't know. All this stuff is, this whole thing is going on. Oh. You were good with that one. You handled that one so well. Look at that. Van is in a space of love. I did well.

You did well. I got to say. I thank you very much, Jade, for the little seal clap. What is this one? Oh, this one's, what's that? The clocked one? No, period. Period.

Period. Period. Period. Okay, can we go to The Bachelor now? Sure, why now. I love this. Chris Harrison is returning to reality dating. TV with Fox Nations the

vow, but the Bachelor producers are already threatening legal action, accusing the new show of using Bachelor imagery and intellectual property in its marketing. Let's take a look at the trailer. What did you think about this? Oh, you missed the roses. Expecting someone else?

Rose's fate, true love, last forever. The Vow, new series about finding true love. Coming this November, Oh my God. Wow. Soopie. Soupy. Soups. If you don't get your dumb ass out of here. Like, yeah, of course they're going to sue you. Was that a, was that a cease and desist letter. So I haven't filed a suit yet. But like, they're not going after the show itself. This is what's smart about it. Right. They're not saying he can't host a dating show about love where there's a bachelor or a bachelorette. What they're saying is they're going after the marketing. strategy, which, I mean, this is, this is clearly, but like, of course, we would not be talking about this show if this wasn't a thing. This is all a part of the marking strategy. The controversy.

They'll probably change. This is a trailer. It's already out there. We're talking about it. This is on Fox Nation, so you have to have this streaming service. It's not like it's on network. It's on a, it's on a, you have to have a subscription to it. Right. But we wouldn't be talking about it. It was announced when he had it. Otherwise, what are we going to say? It's a genius marketing strategy, if you want me to be honest with it. But obviously they know they can't continue in this way. They're like, and what they say in the letter too is that the thumbnail, like yes or however it's picture, there's like a mansion behind it. Like there are so many flowers you could have chosen from. Like everything, even the bachelor written in gold is how it is. Like him stepping on it,

him talking about Rose's fade. It's a dig towards, you know, his former employer, all of that. But let's be honest, he needs to do this. Like I said, we're not, that's, people aren't going to be watching the show like this. Yeah. It's because I don't think it's easy to access. You've got to get a subscription. And maybe they will.

Maybe they're so eager to see this show about traditional marriage. That's what it's about? Yeah. It's about a bachelor, certain number of women, I don't know. But the focus is this is about traditional marriage. marriage and commitment in faith. Okay. So the anti-The Bachelor, because, you know, that's debauchery, but let's be honest, this man hosted that show for almost 20 years and would have continued if not had

happened. But, you know, now it's about faith, commitment, and marriage, sure, whatever. The point is, is that this was necessary to promote the show. Here we are even talking about it. I get it. They'll change the next trailer. It won't look like that. Maybe the roses will be white. Maybe they'll be. I'll tell you who's going to be white. Maybe they'll be blue. People will definitely be white. The bachelors are. That bachelors are. He's already been announced. He'll be... What's his name?

I have no idea. He'll be announced for sure. You know, like, we're not knocking. Like, good for you. You got a new job. You know, like, you tried different things. They didn't work. You went back to what people know you for.

And you're doing it... You are doing it off the coattels of the Bachelor strategy. But, you know... He should. I mean, look, he was there for a long time. That's what he's famous for. That, like, this is what I like.

What I like is Suppy just went. He said to himself, fuck it. Because you get to that fuck it. point, right? You get to that fucking point where you're like, hey man, y'all know me from The Bachelor. I'm going to do a dating show. Fuck these roses. I'm going for it. This is what I'm challenging you to do. You. Me? Yep. I'm challenging you to do. Okay, because this could be worse, right? This could have been like Ice Agent Love. Because it's Fox Nation. There's so many things that could have

happen, right? It could have been love, love at Seacott, Alligator, Alcatraz, Romance. There's just like so many different ways that this could, and they still might do it. Like, some of these guys are going to be tech people, you know, proud boys, proud boys affairs, proud girls. You don't know. You don't know. That might be some of the people on the show. That might be some of the boys. It's on Fox Nation.

This is what you got to do, because we got to, because it's been going on for a long time. This underlying... We don't talk about this. I want to see you back in batch. It's time. I did do something, though. What did you do? I did...

When they had announced Taylor, Frankie Paul, they brought all the bacheloretts back together. Okay. Because I love my bachelorette. I love that sisterhood. And I went... What's the sign? There's no sign.

They should be a sign. There's no sign. There should be a sign. Maybe there should be. I'm not opposed to it, but I went back and I filmed with the Bachelorette. You should get back into Batch, okay, and at BatchCon, is there such a thing? No, super missed opportunity. Batchcon, it should be BatchCon.

First annual Batchcon. Last night of Batchcon, interview. What is the interview? On one side, the most controversial Bachelorette of all-time Rachel Lindsay. on the other side. I'm proud of that title. You should be. You're a TV legend.

Like you should be on the other side. Boom. The Kitchen himself. Chris, Soup Kitchen Harrison. And Rachel, you want to pack out the L.A. Convention Center. You want to pack out the T-Mobile arena. You want to pack out.

You and Soup Kitchen should get on. This conversation needs to happen. People need to hear. They need to hear the ends and outs, the guts and glory of Batch. Who's the host of Batch now? Jesse Palmer. Oh, Jesse Palmer. Shout out to Jesse.

Love Jesse. Shout out to Jesse Palmer, right? Shout out to him. This is the important thing to do. Like, Soupy sales here. He needs the opportunity to make it right with Batch. You guys can come back into Batch together. You know, there's a whole sector that blames me for this.

Blames you for what? For him being God. That's how he got the nickname. You sent him to the suitcase. So there's a whole. whole, like he doesn't necessarily, like there's a whole sector that still is good with him. The part that doesn't like me likes him. And the part that likes me doesn't like him.

So they want. So we could bring everybody together. Bring everyone together. For the right price. I'm not above it. Okay. Okay. So how much would it take for you to do this interview, to do this sit down with Soup Kitchen

at the third day of batch con? I at least need seven figures. Okay. It's not going to happen. No, it's not going to happen. Big figures wouldn't happen. They wouldn't do that. But it's a missed opportunity.

So can we run, can we go back and run the interview on Extra? I'm looking at it up right now. What a boy, I tell you what. It's funny. So look, it's like, this is not, first of all, it was such a crazy time. It was just as if at that time he didn't have TV. Like, he didn't see what was happening. But.

ran on YouTube. Can I ask you a question? It didn't run on TV. Well, that's even worse because the viral, if it's on, he's going to go viral. Do you think that what happened to him, honestly, honestly, do you think that what happened to him was fair? I have, I'm not going to answer that question. Because I wasn't even involved, because that makes it seem like I was involved. No, no, no, no, no, and I'm not asking you what I'm saying is. I don't know why they ultimately fired him. Oh, okay, so you can't say. So that's why I'm saying that. I don't, I was not even podcasting. with telepictures, Warner Brothers. I wasn't even getting a paycheck from them

at the time that they decided to fire him. I wasn't involved. I clearly didn't come on and host after. I didn't do the final rows. I was completely detached from it. So I don't know what it came down to as to why, because the interview happened in February. He wasn't fired until June.

So you can't, I mean, sure, it's obviously related to the fallout from that. But to say that if they were going to fire him strictly for the interview, he would have been fired immediately after. When was the last time he was suspended? He spent right after the interview. Oh, so you haven't spoken to him in years? No, so like February 2021?

This is an opportunity. No, no. He went on. He was like, oh, you know, like don't be hard on Rachel, blah, blah, blah, blah, unfollowed me. Wait, what happened? I'm just saying he was like, you know, when he did, he went on like, because people obviously were attacking me, all of that kind of stuff.

I became like a right wing media topic because cancel culture was big then. Okay. And one of the things, maybe it was the Michael Strayhan interview, not sure, it was like, you know, he didn't have a problem with me. It wasn't Rachel's fault, that kind of thing.

And then after that, unfollow me. Damn. Super, super, superstar. Ditter. So you know what? That's not, I have nothing to do with that. So, so I always felt like there was one, interview platform that is being left on the table.

That somebody's not doing it. Oprah could do this to where... The controversies. Yeah, where it's like there's two people that's going back and forth. Right. And who is the right person? It wouldn't be me because I'm just like too messy.

Like I couldn't be straight up and down. Hey, you did say that. Who would be the right person? If the show is, the show is, the see it's like the um it wouldn't be the beef maybe it could be called the meat grinder where you take the beef and you grind it up into something nutritious okay grinder well that's a different show all the republicans would want to be on it all the republicans are on it all right shout out to them no judgment so like so if the show was called the meat grinder or something like that where you take one person in the middle

and two people right here, not a debate necessarily, but a relitigation of what happened between them. That would be a debate. Well, not necessarily a debate. You don't want to necessarily have the debate. Well, once, like, you're coming from two opposite ends,

and if you're relitigating it, you're defending your point. The whole cow, maybe it's the show, the cow. Okay. But who would be the person that would be perfect to sit in the middle of these two people? Like if it was you and superstar, super supi, super, supi, the chowder, okay? If it was you and chowder is not super.

If it was you and him, who would be the perfect person in the middle to, like, have, to, to moderate or sort of go back and forth between you two guys and a conversation? Who would be the person that you would trust? I don't know. I wouldn't trust anybody. Trust that I wouldn't use that word, but that I think could do it well. What about Jay Shetty? No. I don't want you talking to me like that.

I don't want that. I want more matter-fact than a metaphor. Jason Wilson? I mean, I would trust Jason. Jason Wilson, yeah. But if I was thinking of somebody famous, Jason, yeah, would be fantastic. That could pose good questions and maybe like a John Stewart. Oh

That's a perfect That's a good show Baby doll Hey my guy I haven't talked to you in a while Baby doll Baby doll Make it happen

Baby doll There's one There's one for you Baby doll There's one There's a free one Okay shout out to all the people Over there

Let's sponsor by the ringer Let's bring it to Netflix Shout out to Scott Lanker That's a free one for you there Boom boom Bill would love that idea That's a free Bill would never do that

No No, no, no. That's a free one for you guys right there. That's on the finger. That's a free one out there. You start it off. You build it. So it starts off. It's like rage and soup. Right away, that's a minimum of a million views. Minimum. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. People would love it. Well, I'm just saying. They would. They would. Well, I'm not going to act like they would. They would. A minimum. Conversation just need the right person in the middle. We get to the end. We get to the end. and you and soup hug it out. Well, you have to get there. You have to get there. You might not get there and that's the thing. Yeah, well, well, yeah, you might not get there.

You might not get there. You might not get there. It's a risk, but that's a show that should be done. But you got to start it like with something like this, built-in audience, and then you move it up. One day, maybe you get Colin Kaepernick and Jay-Z on there. Yeah. Yeah. Never happening.

But maybe one day. That wouldn't, yeah. Maybe one day you get people on there and maybe they talk it out. They talk it out. There's all kinds of people of these little beefs. Nikki Minaj, Cardi B.

You could do a million of these. You could do a million of them. You could do like a million of them. But you need a host like John Stewart to get people on and you need people who need a reason to do this. That's why the tool I just named are never gonna fucking happen, right?

Because nobody needs a reason to do it. But you could do it. All right. That's on the finger. you guys over there. Nice. Maybe it all. Make the call.

John Stewart. He's the man for that. All right, what else we got? We have Bernard's football career. We're not going to talk about it. What else? Let's do Bobby Schmurter now. Let's just do it.

Bobby Schmurda is sparking debate after telling a crowd at Arizona State University that they had his permission to say the inward while singing along to his music. The moment was captured in a viral clip from his ASU appearance. Let's take a look. Like I can say bigger, okay? Probably for everybody. Are you surprised by this? You know.

In any way, are you surprised? First of all, it's like, you know, once again, I don't want to make this like the biggest thing in the world. But like, why, though? Like, why? For real, why? If it's like, it's almost as like, if they weren't saying it,

then what's the point? I feel like I'm actually giving in to what this was really for was to make, was to annoy people like me. Because Bobby Sprier don't give a fuck with nobody. It didn't care. Like what difference do it make for him, right? The deeper conversation would be, you know, whether or not we trust hip hop enough with our cultural protection.

And that's like an actual conversation because we talked about this a little bit earlier. I'll tell you how this used to go. How this used to go. And the reason why we still have such a connection to hip hop. these young brothers and sisters come from our communities. We understand a lot in life that a lot of times they were handed. So we get it. Despite what you read on social media,

we have never, ever demanded purity or protection from a lot of people that we share our neighborhoods with. We just always wanted them to do better and be the versions of themselves that we know that they could be. And that's not me saying that, because people say that about me. because of how I fuck up and the disgusting shit that I get into sometimes. So it's not any daylight between me and anybody else. You know, when America at large was coming at rappers,

when the gangster rap thing first happened, when it was, do you leave your children to listen to Snoop Dogg a night? We was like, no, you guys don't understand. This culture is making millionaires of these young brothers. This is not all of rap. Rap is this grand sort of portrait of all different types of. expression and this is one part of it you won't paint it with a broad brush you won't paint these brothers with a broad brush you won't paint these sisters with a broad brush it's not going to

happen we're going to defend our young people and after a while it feels like sometimes that natural reflex to protect to protect especially inside hip hop and rap sometimes is now being abused to where throughout the last decade you had rappers going Black Lives Matter, what is that? I don't care. You had rappers going, I don't racism, what is that? I don't give a fuck about that. I've never seen that before. And now, you get

a crowd full of people and it's one thing to not admonish them because they're saying the N-word. It's another thing to say, hey, you guys aren't saying the N-word, you could say it. Like, what is that about? Why? You know what I'm saying?

Like, why? And we don't, and it now feels like I'm 46, and I made a joke about this earlier, and I'm C. Dolores Tucker, or I think the guy's name was Calvin Butts or whoever it was that was, you know, like my parents sometimes were here, dad, mom, dad would hear rap and be like, what the fuck are they talking about, like, what's going on? mom was in the car like getting hired to bonn thugs in harmony okay mom was like smoking that buda

I'm on that same shit that they on you know what I'm saying so like but now I just you know nigga what like why bro like why they don't need no more power they don't need no more power these are the whites of the world they don't need to be they don't need you to empower

them to do that like they don't need to do that like you already got the show you already booked it you already were getting paid. Like, what was the point of this unless it was a setup? The only way I'd be okay with this is if it was a setup because it's going to be on video and all y'all are we going to see who says it

and this is going to follow you and haunt you for the rest of your life. Of course it's not what it was, but that's the only way I'm saying that it would be, I'd even find this somewhat decent. To your point about the rap artists and protecting the culture, I think that

you look at these concerts, right? You look at rolling loud and whatever else, and I'll go to a rap concert, and I'm a minority. Well, it's been like that for a long time, though. Right. I'd say 20 years or something. Longer. You think in the 90s, too?

I think that... That it was majority? I don't say majority. I'm not, I wouldn't say... There was a MTV once back in the day, it would be interesting to talk to somebody about this who really knows. MTV back once in a day did a whole special on gangster rap. like a whole special on gangster rap.

And in this special on gangster rap, they went out of their way to show that there was a lot of suburban white kids that were consuming this. And this was the music of rebellion against their parents. So I don't know,

here's a deal. Snoop, the last thing I say, Snoop sold 800, this is still amazing to me. Snoop sold 800,000 the first week with Doggy Stuy. and then he came back the second week

and bust their head for another like $800,000. The second week, he didn't sell all of those records to black people. No, of course not. And I do agree that like secretly people were listening to it. Like that, you can do that with other genres too. Like, right? Like people were secretly listening to music that was like the music of rebellion.

My point I guess I'm saying is about... I don't know if it was a secret. The point I'm saying is about protecting it, rappers protecting the culture. It's very simple to me. It's okay for other races. to be a fan and appreciate your artistry and your talent and everything that you're bringing to the music industry. But the line is simple. You're not us. So don't think that because you listen

to it, you consume it, you like it, you're breaking down lyrics, you can quote it. You are not the person who's the talent. You're not the rapper. You're not the artist. It's just like that. So you don't become black by listening to it and now get to say the N-word. You don't get a pass, none of that. That literally should be what people say. Listen to our music, buy the concert tickets, buy the albums, all of that, wear the merch. That doesn't make you black. And that's it.

Like, that's all people need to start saying. You ain't black. Hold on for a second. I want to read something. these white kids love that you don't give a fuck because that's exactly what's expected when your skin's black they want to see you dab, they want to see you pop a pill, they want to see you tat it from your face to your heels

and somewhere deep down, fuck it, I got to keep it real, they want to be black and think your song is how it feels. Y'all know what that's from? Mm-mm. Bernard, what record is that from? I can't think of it right now. Yeah, I bet you can. It's from 9.

1985 by Jay Cole, where Jay Cole was talking to, I think at that point, it was Little Pump, which is weird because Little Pump is not. Yeah, because he did it. Yeah, because, get in there, Bernard. Add. Now, what happened? Tell people what happened. No, Little Pump was dissing him and talking about how much money he makes, but Jay Cole was saying,

you should be no sending that money to your mom, your mama make it by her house or car. Yeah, yeah, Bernard. And the funny thing about that whole thing was that Little Pump is not black, right? So Little Pump said, but look, every time I hear that record, first of all, man, y'all say what I want, man. Cole is devastated with that fucking pin. Yeah, I think we'd all agree. Well, some people try out front. No, not here on higher level.

Okay, like Cole is devastating with that fucking pen, right? but you know I love hip hop I love rap I'm listening to a lot of older hip hop and rap now but I'm listening to a lot of new guys too Azi Chike Come on man

That's an uncle point for you That's an unk point for you I love that that's that Louis Burger music You know what I'm saying I've been listening to Chike since like 2016 2017 I didn't need you to know I didn't need you to love

But you have been on it's like I didn't need you to, why, but see, that's what I'm talking about. Honestly, Van would have done the same thing. That's not true. If you had said something, he would have been like, oh, I've been on him to this dick. I just gave you all the time. You try to be like, I'm L.A. So we're going to get this John Paul in this bitch.

She's tapped in. But like, I like the way he rap. I like that rap that, like, you know, have you heard the records? They're good records. I had the one he has with Tyler. Okay, so like all of that shit, I'm saying all. of that. So there's a lot of great new hip hop

that's coming out. I just seen this sister. I always want to give credit and props before I like. What is the sister that just had to freestyle to where she was dissing everybody? Where she dissed everyone. What's her name? I don't know her name.

Find her name. That motherfucker is incredible. That might be the best verse I've heard all year, period. That motherfucker is... Aeroswan. Eroswan? That motherfucker

is incredible. I speak with, I speak like with a nigger's aggression when I talk about her. Not that lady, not that sister, that motherfucker, because that was some motherfucking shit. So there are a lot of rappers out there that are doing crazy amazing things, right? A lot of

them. A lot of people, I know, a lot of people I don't know. I say all that to say that hip-hop got to be about more than giving out where it passes. Okay? We're talking about giving out a lot of inward passes lately in hip hop. It used to be that hip hop could be something. And even in the gangster rap shit that you got out of hip hop, you got lessons and logic in there. You could get that from Cube. You could get that from Pock. You could get that from the ghetto boys.

You could get that from a lot of that music that we was listening to. You could get that from that. I don't get fuck what y'all say. Say what the fuck y'all want to say. Not all of it all the time, but a lot of this music that was called gangster rap inside of this gangster rap, there was a lot of useful fucking shit. DMX got a song called Stop Being Greedy, where he raps, and some of the shit on that album is pretty, you know, it's DMX.

But he got a song called Stop Being Greedy and both, like, he's rapping from two sides of himself. He's got Damien, where, like, on Damien, he's rapping and he's rapping as this sort of Mephisto devil-like demon who is trying to corrupt him. Like, this music was

arrogant and brash and very, but there was more to it a lot of times than like what people painted it out to be. We need that same thing to be true now. We need it to be more. I remember the niggas was talking about letters to the president

and like this black power sort of basis that existed inside of it and this counterculture. Now these motherfuckers is hanging out with Trump and giving sorority sisters the N-word pass. it's got to be more than that.

And that's not me trying to unk nobody out. That's just me saying it got to mean more than that man. It has to. Or does it? Or does it? No, it has to. No, not or does it? It has to.

For all the things we talked about in the first topic, it has to. But I will say this. The only way for it to actually be that is for these people that's rapping. I'm not saying not to have fun with the music. Sure. I'm not saying because a lot of it is fun. I'm not going to act like I don't like this shit I listen to future every day

every day okay okay I say I don't know what to say the nigger speaks to me I don't know what the good for you it's future y'all y'all know them records hit hard nobody's denying it what are you waiting for what is the pause for

you guys are making it seem like hold on for a second you making it seem like these right them records don't hear hard I don't know why we're listening to say the shit I believe it like it's future you know what I'm saying good for you like niggas niggas listen to Marsh Madness to fucking cry, bro. These records are good records, okay?

So I listen to it all the time. I'm not saying that I don't. I'm saying, obviously, the record is fun. But it's got to be more than fun. So there's got to be more than fun. But another thing is, there's not going to be any, there's no rapper that's going to come out and say that this is whack. No, but they should just give the exact point.

You could have had everybody say, like, boy, man. I don't want to say boy. It's tough. A hot boy. Like a- I'm a hot boy. What did they do on the radio when they used to play it?

I think they just bleep it. We all know what they did. I think it was just like cut. And you'll be on some hot. Yeah. It's just a more powerful image if all of them kids are not saying it. Yeah.

It really could have been a moment. It's just like a more powerful image of all them kids are not saying. If he was up there like, hey, don't say that. You know what I'm saying? No, you can't do that. And then one person says, and then they ston the mouth.

It's just crazy, the desire for white acceptance. Well, I mean, want to have the real conversation, white acceptance, and crossing over into that audience is what ensures you. They're going to listen to it regardless. But that's what ensures you all of the bread. Every, not really, because Bobby Schmurter had a tour that didn't ever came to fruition because he's going to sell tickets. Maybe that's why he's like, let me look these white folks. That's because it's not enough records. But like, there's, the reason why the term black famous is so corrosive and insidious

is because that term is basically an acceptance of the idea that being famous in black America is not worth anything. I could name a bunch of people that are really important to me that are famous. Me, FD. Signifier had this conversation.

I could name a bunch of people that are very important to me that you would say are like famous in black America and haven't necessarily like crossed over. Like I love earthquake as a comic. I love shouting people out. They didn't give them love to people. I love all types of comics and things that you wouldn't think that haven't crossed over necessarily. But for those people, I would imagine that they do want to cross over. They want to be consumed by white America because that takes you from 10 million to 50 million. That takes you from 50 million to 100 million. There's just more long-term career stability.

You get more wars, you get more shine if you do that. So most people that say that they don't have to be concerned with that are lying. There's one person in the history whose entire career is proof of concept to the fact that if you have black people enough, you don't need white people. Tyler Perry Say whatever the fuck you want to say about Say whatever the fuck you want to say about Tyler Perry Has made an entire career

Whether you like the art or not And oftentimes I do not He has made an entire career Of a relationship with black people That's true Now business relationship with white people Be it Netflix be at Lions Gate or whatever But he's made an entire career

off a relationship with black people. He tried to, you know, he did the family that praised. He's done a couple of different things. Yeah. But that was still black audience watched that. That was a good movie. It was a really good movie. That's your favorite Tyler Perry movie.

That's my favorite Tyler Perry movie. Yeah. That's my favorite Tyler Perry. The one that's not as black. Look, man, it wasn't the, you know what? See, this was why you came. I was giving props. But I think Medea is funny as shit.

She is. There's one, before you get off this, there's one what was the one where there's a sketch where Medea catches somebody selling bootleg Medea videos

and she pulls out her gun and she shoots at the person she pulls the gun out of a person and she shoots at him I think it was Medea goes to jail like that's still one of the hardest times I've ever laughed Medea runs up on someone

y'all go look this up fucking tell me you don't laugh at this shit Medea runs up and the nigger going I got a diary of a man black woman, Medea goes, okay, no, stay right there. Stay right there. And she pulls the gun out and she shoots the gun a couple of times. That is hysterical. She brings out a gun quite a bit.

Medea is funny. Like, y'all say what the fuck out? Medea is funny. It's funny. All right. Speaking of funny, before we get into this Knicks. I didn't watch this video. Okay, so Charlemagne put me on this video.

put it in a group chat, and then he posted it. You know, and I know, that, like, right now, I'm kind of off the internet a little bit. Not off the internet, but I'm, like, anti-social media and stuff like that. And every once in a while when you're anti-social media, you run across a video and you go, without the internet, I've never seen this.

Without the internet, I would have never been a part of this piece of content. and you go, this piece of content makes the internet worth it. This next video is a video like this to me. I'm not so sure that I've ever seen one single video that was funnier, that was more interesting, that had me perplexed from the beginning to the end, but also understanding it that was more honest. I've never seen anything like what I'm just about to show to you guys. This comes from the whole lot of gay show.

Same on the show or a whole lot of gay. This is Stutz talking about sucking dick. Run it. Like sucking the dick is crazy. You suck the dick, what, po? Yeah. Nogger, you did too. Shut the fuck, I'm sorry.

Exactly. You suck the dick. No, I did. I never said no dick. No, bro, you kissed the tip, bro. You kissed the tent, bro. You're going to talk to me? You say, what are you?

I'm not lying. You can, niggins. I touched it. I ain't never suck a dick. You kiss the tip. I never kiss the tip. My first girl was at 14. I ain't never look bad.

Right, and we was 12, nigg in school, nigga, niggins said kiss the tip. I didn't kiss them. Wait, you're sucking niggins. Are you bugging? You was kissing dick tip. No, nigga, but you're Puerto Rican.

What the fuck? You're right, now I'm wrong. No, fuck it. Say I'm late. All right, you were sucking dick. I wasn't. You was. You was.

I did one time. It was next to me. I choked. I never did a guy said. I do not have no gag reflex. I got gag reflex. So that's him. I said, well, this is not for me.

Don't act like we ain't by the action. She's like 16. I sucked some dick. Like one and a half. I'm like, I feel like sucking dick is degrading. Nothing down. If you suck and dick, you're like, that's degrading, bro.

Yo, I'm sorry, bro. I'm sorry. The clip of the year, nigga. What the fuck? I got a whole education. I got to be clip of the year. You can't do no better. What was the education?

The education was number one. I can answer this question. This is higher learning. The number one education was about the fact that, you know, shout out to my studs everywhere, but they had to find out. They had to go out there. Not except for the one.

Except for the one. Except for the one. Some of them had to find out. Some of them tried it, didn't like it. And look how honest they are. Look how honest they are sitting. down there, I'm talking about day like they, another species. I got from that

education about what it means to come to terms with your sexuality, I got fucking lighthearted jokes, I got the different variations. There's a whole spectrum of stud. There's never touched the dick to I got a gag reflex

to, I actually did it one and a half times. I sucked the dick and then went back to a different dick just to make sure that I got it right the first time and I'm not really into this. Did you say that? No, but that's what I'm taking it. All of that by a group of really fucking funny ladies. I loved it.

I thought it was funny for sure. I don't know about education and all that as a stretch. But I'm not curious about other people's lives. That's not it. What I appreciated was and what made it funny was the defense of like, wait, that doesn't mean this or just because I did this or you know you did this. You did this too. Like I thought that that was funny because I've never really seen.

you know, that conversation happened before. Definitely not in public. I liked it. So I liked that they were like, uh-uh, you did this, uh-uh, you did that, oh, wait, that. Like, I thought, I liked the defense of it all. That was funny to me.

It's just, to me, I'm looking at it, and I just thought, wow. I assume most people... Sucked it? No, I was going to say that I've assumed that there is, like, you know, people were like, oh, you didn't experiment in college, you didn't do this?

Like, when people say stuff like that, I assume most people, realize what they don't and don't like through experimenting. So I'm not surprised that majority of them had tried it. She was like, oh, you were 12, you didn't know. Whoa, that was one of the other girls said, wait a minute, 12. They moved on from that. But I would assume that most people have like experiments like, oh, this is what I like,

this is what I don't like. You know, maybe society's telling me that this is how I have to be. But then I'm feeling this way. Let me experiment and they figure out what they want. But this was funny. I liked it just because, you know, you get to peer into the thing. I should call Ebony, but if I call it, she's just going to get mad. Yeah, don't do, don't bring Ebony into this.

Why? Just for what you said. Ebony is the way that I learned about studs. Apparently, you learned more. I learned more, but Ebony had a couple of friends that were studs, and that's when I learned about the studs that wear the, they wear the strap-ons. They wear the strap-ons. They wear the strap-on all the time.

Some do. Some do, not all of them. I did not say that all of them do. I was just clarifying for the audience. Yeah, I learned about the ones that wear the strap on all the time. I think that this was early on. So it might have been like 2001. Did I ever tell you the Dykeland story?

I don't know if I want to hear it. Okay. So there was a video that I had and it was called, that was the name of it. I don't want to say that again because that's a bad word, I think. And that was the name of the porn. and one of Ebony's friends was like, does that video say that? And I was like, yeah.

I was like, what, you want to hold that bitch? You know what I'm saying? Because, you know, we had these flicks. You like, you share these flicks. Your boy come over and he's like, yo, man, you got black juice? Yeah, I got black juice. I got round mound, orgy world.

Oh my God. Number one and two. Hold that down for a second. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, take it. Hey, go do you, dog. Hold that down for a second. And I let her borrow it.

man she held that motherfucker for like two months man and the fact that you were counting she couldn't get it you asked for it back and she was like I can't find it I loaned it to her and she had it for so long that she gave it back and I didn't even remember it didn't work it was a DVD no it was a this was VHS okay let's see who's in this one no no no what hold on I just I got a we don't need to see that I don't know I'm giving shoutouts I want to give shoutouts to the

people that was in the first one. You know what my favorite thing is about with studs is the names. When they do the things on TikTok, I love what, I love when it's like, what's your stud name? Okay, but what's your, government name? That's what I love. What's the stud? Well, it'll be like, I don't know, like, think of like a rap name or something like that. It'll be like, oh, okay, and they have a stud name. And then they're like, but what's your real name? And they'll be like, Bridney. So it would be like, B-Dog. And she'll be like, oh, no, but it's really Brittany. It's always like Sarah, and they laugh when they say it because they changed it.

Oh, okay. See, I never knew that. Like, there was, these was, I never knew that, like, when it was, but I met. So in this one, it was, it was, uh, Diana DeVoe, who I knew that I was walking, when I first got to L.A., I was walking on the beach in L.A. on Venice Beach, and Diana DeVoe, like, walked right past me. It was like, 2006. I was like, I'm never leaving. I'll never go back to Baton Rouge. Like, it'll never happen. I'm just, like, walking on the beach and just out of nowhere, Diana Vos just walked right past me at Venice Beach.

I'm like, I'm here forever. Never? Didn't say hello. I love your work. None of that. Because, you know, I'm not sure you don't think you should do that. But I don't think you should. I don't know.

Anyway. So, but that's when I first learned about the whole stud. It just became my home girl. Great. A friend of mine. You know what? Yeah, I don't, I don't apologize. I don't apologize with your first Baptist sensibilities.

Has nothing to do with that. It does. Like you're, I feel the judge. No, you don't. Not the judge as in my guy. That's my guy.

I feel the judge. No, I'm not judging you. Mint? Now I'm not judging you. I'm talking about it. There's a, there's a,

We cross a line. Okay, what's the line? Well, you know, like you talk about, Dyclan, okay, whatever. Is that what's the name of it? Whatever, I'm not saying anything. Whatever it was called. You talk about it,

but they just like, well, let's find out who's in it. I'd like, they don't care. They don't care. They don't care. But do you know why? Nobody listening watching cares. Actually, they don't like it. They could go Google it. Actually, they don't like it. If they were curious.

They go creepy van again. I get it. But look, let me tell you the way I feel. Can I, can I real quick explain? I would never deny you the opportunity to explain how you feel. Okay, thank you. That's very appreciated. You're welcome.

Love van is back. I gave shoutouts to everybody else for everything. I love giving shoutouts. I love celebrating people. Wouldn't it be weird if I didn't give shoutouts to that? It's almost as if I would be setting a standard that there is something wrong with that or something awful about it.

If I love you in music, I give you a shout out. If I love you in art, I give you a shout out. If I love you, acting, whatever. If I love whatever you do, give you a shout out. Tell people go get this stuff. But if I can't give a shout out to that, It almost feels like I'm saying that there's some shame involved with it. Honestly, fair.

Fair point. Point main. You're right. I can't even, I wouldn't even argue against that. You're right. So were you able to say the names? Did that cut you off? You cut me off, but I think that it was for the best.

Because I think that the audience, I think that the audience is not, I think that you, I think that they, I think that this honestly stresses them out. I think that this shit they don't like this like I get every once in a while like even under the all throat

Abdul El Sayed thing which oh man it was funny but y'all y'all y'all's stressing me out man it's like the whole thing it wasn't about

Michelle Obama y'all y'all gotta watch the whole interview man it wasn't about but people were like Van Abdul al-Said there you have to be more mature that's not what got me got me back he played into it though

yeah he knew what he was doing he doubled down he said that And this is something else. Yeah, he said that so that he would throw me off the trail of the actual hard-hitting question. Well, I don't think that part. But once he realized how much you liked it, then he doubled down with something else with another comment. He was down for, you know, fun and conversations.

By the way, out there right now with Barack Obama. El Barack Obama? I think that'll solidify it for him. You think that's going to bring him across the fucking finish line? You think that he's going to know, Barack Obama being out there with him? Yeah. Definitely going to help. Like, the reality is if there was any,

if you need black voters, I'm not, obviously. That was it. That's the guy. That was it. That's the guy. That's the guy. We'll see what happens. Hey. What's a funny?

Just go. Are we at two hours? Let's go. Okay, we have to be. No one happens. Why? Why did you? It was the head turned with the look.

Giff what he just did. Like, clip that. I was trying to. I'm so used to, I know exactly what you're talking about. I want you to see it. They're going to clip it for you. Wait. Go ahead.

It's not fair. It's really, to be honest with you, it's a, it's a, y'all are against me. Make your point. Okay, thank you very much. We should do next week a higher learning election special. Okay. We talk about the key races. Because I think most places voter registration has passed.

We should have done a little drive towards that. Now we need to. I posted on my social media. Y'all go look at vote.org to check. Because it also can differ between mail, ballot, online. Right. Like, not registration, but just how you vote. Like, all, like, pay attention to your deadlines.

So what we need is a Vodapalooza episode, but we need to do it pretty soon so that people have all the information. It's not, like, right before the actual midterms happened. So we do Votapalooza. We have different people come on here. We have centrist, leftist, boom, and talk about these different races and how they're stacking up. We get some people from other places. We'll see if we can get one of the pods save guys to come on.

We see if we can actually have a talk about, I think I talked about it with you that, you know, there's a beef between the bulwark and the majority report. They beefing on some Cripshit. Montague's Capulets. Montague's Capulets, that's right. You're right. Okay.

So we could talk about all of this stuff and how this is shaping up for the midterms. Maybe a poster, maybe a black poster. Let's work this out. That's a lot. That's a lot. I'm not, I'm not anti it. Let's, let's let's plan.

But we got to workshop it. Yeah, we got to workshop it for sure. All right, before we go, we got to say something real quick. I just, I got to email. Rachel, do you want to make an announcement? Oh. Rachel, look at me. Look at me.

You got to, y'all got to look at me, man. Y'all got to. I got to look at me. Look at you. Guys, we made the Ebony Power 100 list. as media mavens. Yeah. Very proud moment.

Every power 100. Always great to be recognized by the community, but even more so to be a media maven, I think it's a powerful category. And it's great to be recognized for what we do. We're proud of what we do here.

Is there a number? Did we get a number? No, no, no. It's not like ranked 1 through 100, but it's different categories, and we made the category. I think there's maybe like seven people in our category.

Shout out to Ebby. Ebony Magazine, Ebony Online. Shout out to everybody over there. Ebony Power 100. Higher Learning. There's a reception somewhere. Is there? I didn't see all that.

Well, no. There's Ebony Power 100. Oh, the gala. The gala. The gala. I might pop out to the gala. No, no, no. You will pop out to the gala.

We will be there. You get a plus one. So, and ours is Aria Hughes. She's editor-in-chief-complex. Lewis Carr, Dr. Lewis Carr, President of BET. Garrison Hayes. Shout out to him.

Love that guy. Yeah, he's great. Jason Lee. Jason Lee. Shout out to Jason Lee. Going crazy. Josh Johnson. Going crazy.

Both of those two people are going crazy. Omar Jimenez. Crazy. That's my God. Everybody going crazy. Rachel Lindsay and Van Lathen. Going crazy. Chanel Jones Today Show.

Crazy. Simone Sanders Townsend and Eugene Daniels. Going crazy. And Tanya Mosley. She's a co-host of NPR's Fresh Air. Oh, wow. Love fresh air. So, like, a really stacked category, like.

We're there. We made it. We made it. Don't tell my mom of nothing. I can tell when I look at this picture, I need to go back to the hair transplant people. But, like, don't tell my mom of nothing. You're not going to be able to tell her nothing.

Her baby is on the equity power. I'm going to bring Ms. Crystal. I mean, Kalika. But if you get an extra plus one, bring Ms. Crystal. Yeah, she would love that. I'm going to bring pretty hair. Oh.

You've never met her in person. Never. Wait. No, that's a lie. She came to the podcast once. When? When? We were back at the downtown.

Oh, yeah, I did meet her. I did meet her. But Ebony Power 100, Higher Learning, man. Thank you. We are honored. We're very honored. It's an honor.

It's a privilege. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Everybody going crazy. All right. Take thing caps off. Do not stop learning. I'm Van Lathan Jr.

I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Bye, guys.