Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - DeSean Jackson's Anti-Semitic Post and Kanye West Doubling Down

Episode Date: July 10, 2020

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay discuss DeSean Jackson’s anti-Semitic Instagram post and the controversy surrounding Stephen Jackson defending DeSean (5:09). Then they go into Van’s review of 'Hamilton' (25:56), Lady Antebellum trying to change their name to Lady A (35:23), Kanye West's unexpected interview in Forbes (48:10), and Rachel’s appearance on Emmanuel Acho’s show, 'Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man' (1:10:49). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See terms at Fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash herms. Yo, yo, yo. What up, thought warriors? Oh, ho. That's what you should say. You guys can't see it if you're listening to the audio by itself. But I am wearing a Santa hat for today's episode.

Okay. This is higher learning. Obviously, I'm Van Lathen. I'm Rachel Lindsay. Listen, low energy intro, but that's okay. I'm going to explain why I'm wearing a Santa hat real quick because Rachel came in. It's because this is why I'm wearing a Santa hat. Please, why, yes.

a little bit that you need to know about me is before the podcast started, I asked, axed, I asked, I asked, I asked, uh, Jackson, uh, one of the producers of higher learning. By the way, shout out to our team, Jackson, Jordan, and Isaiah. Yes. Keep us sounding and looking good every single week. I asked Jackson if it would, if I should wear a Santa hat. And he said no. And that's, so I said, and then, so then I asked Jordan, if I should wear the Santa hat, Jordan said no.

Isaiah came on. I said, Isaiah, what do you think about the Santa hat? I'm thinking in my mind, if he says no, I'm going to get the fucking hat. He said no. And I went and got the hat and I feel better from having to fight all of them. But why, man? Why? Why are we wearing a Santa hat?

That's what people really want to know. Well, I'm wearing a Santa hat, okay, because I want to feel festive. Santa hat to make me feel good. It makes me, it harkens back to my childhood. And you know what? Also, how about this? I'm wearing a Santa hat because I, as a child, dreamed of the day where I, too, could do shit and not have anyone tell me anything about it.

My dad used to say, close the refrigerator door, your air conditioning in the whole neighborhood. That statement is stupid. That makes no sense. You just wanted it closed because you wanted it closed. Well, now it's my house and I wear a damn Santa hat. Well, go ahead and open the refrigerator then. I might do whatever I want to do. You're wearing a hat too.

You're wearing a scarf? I'm not wearing a hat. I'm wearing a scarf on my head. Why? I'm wearing a scarf because I'm in the middle of a process. I took out my braids, my box braids. And I'm getting redone tomorrow. So as we like to say, our scalp needs to breathe.

So right now it is being conditioned with coconut oil. And after this, Jamaican caster oil. Jamaican castle. And what does that do to the hair? Like, give some people some cultural information. It gives you. So when I have my braids in for six weeks, I can't comb them out. You know, I can't wash it the way I want to.

I can't moisturize it. So this gives it the moisture and the treatment that it needs, the deep condition. You know, I'll put a little mask on as well, hair mask, put a shower cap on, sit for a while. Then I'll wash it out. So then my hair is all ready for a new set of braids. Sounds relaxing. Is it soothing? No, it's worse.

It is not relaxing because I got to comb through the hair, you know, detangle it. Just imagine not washing or combing your hair for six weeks. It gets tangled. That's your hair lesson for the day. I have Brian help me cut my hair up. Oh, Brian, huh? You better learn. You better learn.

Brian helps you cut the hair? Yeah. You got to be a part of the journey. Yes. So, I mean, does he ever ask, like, inappropriate questions? Like, when he's, like, combing through your hair? Because he's, like, if he's coming through your hair and he's like, Yo, why is the cone stuck?

I can't get it. I can't get it out of this. What are these little things, these little circling things? What do you call these things? Wait a minute. Why? Because I know that kitchen back there. Would you like to see my kitchen?

I know the kitchen back there. The kitchen got to be on fire back there if you had to wash it. Let them know what the kitchen is because not all of our listeners understand that. Okay. So the kitchen is the back of the hair and the back of the head right there. That's the kitchen. That's the part when my sister used to be getting that process done. My mom would be back there getting that kitchen.

That's when the eyes well up and the water comes in. Yeah, they do. That kitchen. So you have that, last thing I say about the hair, you have that rap on around your head. So when you have that wrap on, do you ever do stuff like go to the mirror and recite lines from the color purple?

Because, like, it's got a whole seely, Shug Avery type of, no? You know, okay. Really, Vam. I'm just saying. You know, you look like a. Who, I'm on Shug, am I Shug? Am I?

Who am I? It'd be Sealy? You know, like, that's a triumphant, you know, people say that used as a diss. But think about it, Sealy, that was a triumphant character, right? She got into... By the end, she didn't start out. Now, she did not start out that way. I'm surprised you saw the color purple.

Okay. Here we go! All right. Oh, wow. A lot of stuff to get to on today's episode. We normally do not start these episodes in the world. of sports, but we kind of have to this week. This, a lot of controversy this week surrounding two very, very prominent athletes, one more

prominent for what he does on the field, one athlete who's more prominent for what they do away from the arena of sports. Just to run you guys back through this really quickly, Deshaun Jackson, who is a former Pro Bowl NFL wide receiver, posted something to his Instagram earlier this week. which were quotes from Adolf Hitler. Now, it turns out that these quotes that Deshaun posted, which were attributed to Hitler, are things that Hitler did not even say. But the gist of these quotes were something along the lines of black people are the original Jews.

And if they ever find out who they are, that they'll take down the fake Jews and a bunch of mumbo-jumbo-jumbo in that regard. Deshawn Jackson posted Hitler quotes. Let's make sure that we digest that. DeShon Jackson posted Hitler quotes on his Instagram. Yes, it said Hitler said. Hitler said. Yikes. And the reaction was very swift.

The reaction came in obviously from all different areas of social media and, of course, regular people, the intelligentsia, whatever. Deshawn Jackson then apologized and there were calls to cut him from his current team, which is the Philadelphia Eagles. Stephen Jackson, who is a friend of mine and a very, very dedicated activist, a friend, a personal friend of George Floyd's, who's seen his platform explode since George Floyd's killing in Minnesota. Stephen's been everywhere doing fantastic work. Came to the defense of Deshawn Jackson.

Now, initially it seemed like he was defending what Deshaun Jackson said, but as I've talked to Stephen, and as Stephen has made clear on his social media, what he says he was actually defending was the notion that Deshaun Jackson should be cut from the Eagles. One more layer to this story until we get into the discussion. The reason why he feels like that is because Riley Cooper, who is a Y receiver from the Eagles, was on tape, calling a group of black people the N-word, I think back in 2013 or 2012 or something like that. that. And he was not cut from the Eagles. As a matter of fact, he shortly after that received an extension. So what a lot of people are saying is that if the Eagles didn't cut Riley Cooper for saying the N-word, he said he was at Kenny Chesney concert and he was videoed saying, I'll jump over this barrier and beat up every nigger over there. That's what Riley Cooper said. If he wasn't cut for that, why would Deshaun Jackson be cut for this? That kicked off an entire three days where Deshaun Jackson,

who has apologized and pledged to do better and is working with people to do better. It's kind of gone to the backburner of this. Stephen Jackson, who right now is the biggest celebrity, is now in the crosshairs of this entire thing. It was just a lot of mess going on. As far as us, this is the most requested topic for us to discuss.

I don't know for you. Yeah, everybody's been reaching out asking what we thought about this. I mean, and that's one thing. A lot of it. Why haven't you said anything? Where's your outrage for, you know, what Deshaun Jackson said when you've been so outspoken about injustices that are happening? And I'm like, first of all, I reserve my opinions for the podcast, for the most part. Don't really tweet that much. Don't really get that opinionated on my social media. The podcast is an outlet for me to do that. But I am so tired of people wanting me to, to or equate my outrage for one wrongdoing to the entire Black Lives Matter movement. The movement is built on centuries of wrongdoings.

Now, I think what Deshaun Jackson did is wrong. You can't defend it. He should have been aware of what he was posting. It was very harmful towards a group of people. And it's wrong. It's indefensible, period. It's wrong. And there's really not a whole lot more for me to say.

to talk about that. I don't think that he should be kicked off the team, especially if you're saying how the Philadelphia Eagles handled it years ago with Riley Cooper. I think that you have to have the same dish out the same type of judgment or punishment that you did for another player with the same player. Like it shouldn't be unequal. But I just think I get frustrated when people want me to have the same outrage for every single wrongdoing that's done. Or expect me to comment on every single wrongdoing and speak out against it. I think it's wrong. And I can't say that enough.

But for me to compare that to the way I am passionate about being a black person into the Black Lives Matter movement, I think is a fallacy. You cannot equate my outrage the same way. It's wrong. And he should be handled. However, they decide to handle him with that. It shouldn't kick him off the team, though. But I guess that's just how I feel about it.

I don't really don't have a whole lot to say. It's wrong. Yeah, no, I get it. So Jack's case is a different case. I think that in terms of Stephen Jackson, you see Jack was coming to the defense of Deshawn Jackson. He says, so there was a point where Stephen Jackson said that he felt like Deshaun. And I interviewed Jack about this for an interview that may or may not be coming out

depending on whether or not the company that I interviewed him for has any balls or not. but he says when he said the next day that a lot of what Deshawn Jackson was saying was truth. Now what Stephen Jackson says is that he wasn't talking about the Instagram that Deshawn Jackson put up. He had a private conversation with Deshawn

Jackson when Deshawn called him and said listen Jack, they're trying to cut me from the team. I need some help. They didn't cut Riley Cooper, blah, blah, blah. Stephen Jackson says he was saying that that is true. That double standard is true. He was saying that he was was talking about that and not about Deshawn Jackson. Now, if I'm Stephen Jackson, Jack is my friend, you have to understand why people weren't able to understand what you meant when they weren't

on the phone with you and Deshawn Jackson. No one would understand that. No one would get that, right? But once again, I don't think that Jack is an anti-Semite. And I definitely don't think that there's anything in him that agrees with Adolf Hitler. Now, I'm going to say something right now, pure evil, Adolf Hitler. Six million Jews, six million others. Right. Not to mention the around half a million lives lost to American soldiers that had to go over and then save the world from Hitler and the access powers. Not to mention the legacy of white supremacy and anti-Semitism that has sort of infected the earth in the form of Nazism after Hitler.

There's only a couple of guys that have reached Hitler's level of evil. So there's, there's in no way, you've got to be fucking nuts to put anything on your, on your Instagram that in any way is sympathetic or big enough Adolf Hitler. You have got to be fucking crazy. And so having said that, Deshaun Jackson needs to get educated. He needs to get educated on world history. he needs to get educated on anti-Semitism. He needs to get educated on how a lot of the microaggressions against Jews have led to the feeling that somebody needs to come along and kill all of them.

So anytime any of these racist tropes about the Jews are repeated, like they got all the money or they got this or they got that. Those are things that get blown up and then used as ammunition to actually kill people, not just in Germany, but in programs. that things like that that have happened all over. There are a million different things that have happened to Jews all over the world. If you know anything about world history, you know what a deadly disease anti-Semitism is. Now, here comes the butt.

Yeah, what's the butt? So this is the but. The but is this. Stephen Jackson is going to talk with the rabbi later on. He's going to do the work. DeShon Jackson, is going to do the work. They're going to do the work.

Well, I don't know Deshaun, but I know Jack is going to do the work because he's got a big platform. He was misunderstood, according to him. I believe that he was misunderstood. I know that he was misunderstood. He's going to do the word

so he's never misunderstood in that way ever again. But I'll tell you guys something. I want you guys to hear my voice. You don't fucking tell me when to talk. Part of me asserting my freedom in this country as a black man, is I have the freedom to get involved in or to not get involved in whatever it is I want.

I said that what Deshaun Jackson said was indefensible on Twitter, I'll say it here. But what I'll also say is, get off of me. Okay? I'm not, there's no moral authority for anyone here in America to come tell me when I need to be engaged because what it makes it seem as if is that you're saying, oh, like you're doing it begrudgingly.

Like you're in some way dragging me by my nuts to do something. I don't like that feeling. So if you want to come to me and have a conversation and ask me, Van, how do you feel about this? What do you think about this? What can we do about this? That's one thing. But demanding that I do something,

agree. Not going to do it. Now, here's the thing. That's another reason why, Rachel, earlier on this podcast, I said, I don't need white people to speak up for me. I'm not demanding that anybody white speak up for me. I'm not demanding that anybody from outside of the culture speak up for me.

If they want to, cool. If they don't, cool, just don't get in my way. The reason being is I've had enough of asking and dragging people into this. I'm willing to go it alone because no one has helped black people. And when you start horse trading like that, this is what you get. I don't agree with that part. I don't agree with the horse trading part. But I, because what you're saying,

the reason I say I agree with you is what, because what you're saying is what I was trying to say at the beginning or I was saying at the beginning. Don't tell me to speak up or don't tell me what I should be outraged over. I get that. Don't also tell me that I'm not speaking out because it's not popular. I got a lot of that too. Don't tell me that.

Now, I still believe that, you know, like, we're black. And to go towards what we were saying when we first started this podcast, I'm black and I will always be black and I will fight for what is black. But I do believe that to get things done, you have to have allies. I still hold true to that. But I don't believe in this, the horse trading thing, just because I say we should have allies. that don't look like us doesn't mean that that gives you the freedom to tell me what I need to be outraged on.

That's what I don't like. Don't equate my outrage and passion for the Black Lives Matter movement to something else. Don't do that. But I want to say something to what you said about Stephen Jackson, and maybe you can give more insight to this because you talk to him.

I don't understand why he said what he said was twisted, because that's what he's come out and said. They twisted my word. This is what I meant to say. I don't understand why he won't explain that. Well, we have an interview where he did explain it. I think people are going to be able to see it.

We have an interview where he did explain it. I'll tell you exactly what he said, what he said was he was speaking specifically to the Riley Cooper situation. He said he didn't even see what Deshawn Jackson had put on, on Instagram until after. And when he spoke to Deshaun Jackson, there was no mention of Hitler. I say all of this to say this. know what the fuck you're talking about.

Before you talk, agree. And the reason is is because if you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, you can hurt so many people, hurt yourself, and then hurt the movement as well. And I think that when I spoke to Jack,

one thing that he said was he has to be a lot clearer and a lot more intentional about what's coming out of his mouth. what he's represented. He's actually mad that people could think he's an anti-Semite, partly because he really, prior to this, didn't have much knowledge on what an anti-Semite really was

or what anti-Semitism was or about this entire thing and the crash course is coming so fast. That's what he's expressed to me. But then it's like, you know, that's why the phrases with power comes responsibility, right? He has been thrust into the public spotlight like he never has before. You know him if you know the sports world, but now he's on a bigger stage because of his relationship with George Floyd and because he's been so outspoken and involved in the movement and traveling

to different cities and talking about police reform and social injustice. He has become a face of this. And he wasn't that before. But I guess what I don't understand is I believe him when he was saying he was referencing the Riley Cooper incident, but why didn't he just say that from the beginning? I think that's what's harder for people to understand because people don't know him like that.

You know, let's get out of his mind for a second because what Stephen Jackson has said and his way of defending him, that speaks for his self, that speaks for itself. That speaks for itself. What, what, because there was more than that. There was a conversation he had on Instagram live

where some people were upset about some things that were said. Like, this is the bottom line. The bottom line is in our community, what we have to be able to do amongst us is to set lines and boundaries even within the community, right? About what type of thought,

what type of speech is acceptable to us, adhere to that, and then hold each other to that. to that standard. If you come out and you say something that seems to be sympathetic with the Third Reich or Adolf Hitler or whomever, I'm not going to be able to build with you. As a matter of fact, you are automatically my enemy. Yeah.

Automatically. I think what was so confusing was, and I'm going to quote something, I was trying to find this, he said, quote, maybe I could have been more clear of what I thought Deshaun was correct about, but I didn't feel the need to go into a. conversation than me and him had about how they were treating him and Riley Cooper. I could have just changed those words, end quote. I think that's where it's like, well, just say, nobody's asking you to tell the details of your private conversation, but speak more about why you're saying things and how it's not

offensive and people are taking it the wrong way. I guess I just wish it could have been said so much better. And I think that that's what's just a little disappointing with his statements and all this and the way that he handled it. And maybe we do have higher expectations for him because he stepped out in the forefront. And we have seen him speak out. And he does it well. And he has a podcast. So to me, he chooses his words carefully. So for him to say it this way is where I think people are like, hold up. What? You know, it's kind of like he means what he says. This isn't so much a defense as what it is me looking at.

this as objectively as I can. Yeah. If you, like, he, he was speaking plainly. What he wasn't, was, what he wasn't doing was speaking intentionally. So he gets on there, he says, yo, Deshawn got a point. Deshawn got a point about this. DeShon got a point. And he's talking about what he spoke to Deshawn Jackson about when the whole world is going,

my nigger, are you saying Deshaun Jackson has a point about Adolf Hitler's shit? I'm like, wow. Oh, even I called him. I called him that night. I'm like, my God, y'all bugging. Like, for real? But so I think when I asked him during this interview, I asked him, I said, what have you learned? Mm-hmm.

Because that's the important question. What have you learned? And I think what he learned was, number one, that he's learned something that we should all learn, which is that we all have a lot more learning to do. Mm-hmm. And number two, he learned that, you know, with the platform needed that he had, has now, he will not be ignored. And he needs to be crystal clear on any of the ideas that are coming out of his mouth and out of his head or else people are going to demand answers. And he could

do a lot more harm to all of the amazing progress that he's made than he can do good. And as far as Deshaun Jackson is concerned, you know, I want to see these brothers and I invite them, you know, we have the Museum of Tolerance here. Like, if you guys go to some of these places, you'll see that it was hot as hell in Mississippi in 1812, while our ancestors were out there picking cotton. Hot as hell, ridiculously hot. But it was hot in those ovens too.

Exactly. Like people, both being black and Jewish at times in the history of this world has meant that people can just take your life, take your children's life, starve you to death, maim you and beat you, and nobody's going to forget that. The Jews aren't going to forget, and we're not going to forget. So there's no reason, there's no reason to wait into those waters. And I hope that the steps that, you know, Steve, it sounds like you and Stephen Jackson had a

really good conversation and he wants to learn from what he did. And I hope Deshaun Jackson really does take those steps too. And then I hope for, you know, athletes, whoever else that has a platform like this, this is a lesson for you, that you realize that you have this power. People are watching what you say. And it can be detrimental if you say the wrong thing. So I really hope you take the time not just to learn that he did something wrong, but learn that we need to continue to educate ourselves. So you don't make these mistakes. Final thought on this.

I'm just saying this is everybody can hear me. everybody Hitler bad no good no good stuff Hitler bad all bad

another thing about Hitler that you guys might not know Hitler was inspired by good old white supremacy right here in the States Henry Ford

and the dearborn independent Hitler if you read some of the manifesto so looked up to that Henry Ford, creator of Fort, had a paper up there in Michigan,

the Dearborn Independent, that spewed some of the worst anti-Semitic bile that has ever been spewed. Hitler was influenced by that and it led, it transformed Hitler's way of thinking to a degree

and helped formulate the ideas that will go on to kill six million Jews, 12 million others. Okay? So it's not like here at stateside. We're so removed from that hate. We dip our toes into

hate all over the place. Now, speaking of hate, speaking of hate, I watched Hamilton. Is that how we're leading into it? Speaking of hate? Yeah. It's not the same in a movie form, but go ahead. Give us your critique, man. Because you already went into it, jaded. Like, you already felt some type of way

watching it. So you watched it through those lens, that lens. So before I even talk, before I even talk, you're just going to like not give me credit for any of my actual No, but like... Speaking of hate. But when I say before I even talk, excuse me, let me be,

let me practice what I preach. Before I talk about Hamilton, I'm not talking about a previous conversation that we had on the phone. Before I even talk about Hamilton, you're going to say that whatever I say now has no merit because I'm jaded. Because of your segue.

But go ahead. Your segue into this topic. The segue made it seem like I was jaded or maybe I just didn't like that shit because I didn't like it. Let me tell you something. I'm not saying that Hamilton people that they're not great. They are great. I actually think that I like hip hop too much to be like a big fan of Hamilton.

Because you didn't like the way they were rapping? No, it's like I remember back in the day, there was this fruity pebbles commercial, right? And the fruity pebbles commercial was like, oh, yo, I'm born in Roble and I'm here to say. I love Rudy tables in the mail's away. Like, when I watch that shit, I'm not like in my apartment like, yo, this nigga Barney's spitting. Oh my God, bro.

We need to, like, Barney, like Barney Rubble Guy flow. That was a really good Barney impression. I just want to watch you. That's my guy. That's actually my favorite guy on the Flintstones. So to me, like when I'm watching Hamilton, it's like, yo, hi, I am brer chilling in the fair,

doing my thing. I'm like, that's just not for me. Is that how you think I will rap? Well, I know that you like that type of rap. Because I like Hamilton? Because you like Hamilton. I'm not, by the way, I can't rap. They all do it better than I do.

But what I'm saying is that like I was trying to come away with like, because I asked some people, I was like, yo, what's the best song from Hamilton? And people told me it was Aaron Burr, sir. You know, the Aaron Burr song? Aaron Burr, sir. Yeah. Give me some of it. Give me some Aaron Burr, sir.

No, that's all I got. That's all I got. I saw it three years ago. But I'll listen to that Aaron Burr. And it was clever. There was some bars in there because he actually went Aaron Burr, sir. And then at one point, he tied that into the term Burr, sir. Look, you're moving back and forth.

Rachel is grooving. She likes it. I didn't fuck with it at all. You know, he was inspired by being. You know, that's, like, that's, he's, he's come out and says, I know you, I know you didn't know that. Come on, man. Can we let. He said that that was part of, like, he, not that he was trying to sound like Biggie or anything,

but his love of hip-hop, his love for Biggie is what kind of inspired him. Your face. Can we just let the late break better and live? Now you hate it even more. Can we just let Big live? I, seriously, question, though. Like, how, why is Hamilton? why like I just I promise you thought wars we won't talk about Hamilton anymore after this

because I know a lot of you guys love Hamilton what I'm saying is explain to me I really want to know because I even talk to Bill shout out to Bill Simmons and Bill was telling me I think Bill felt he felt a certain way about my distaste for Hamilton because he loves it he him as kids like it so much right so and so I even spoke to him about it and it was like everyone's telling me everyone's You say you don't like Hamilton. People get offended. They were offended by it. I'm not offended.

I just say go into it with an open mind. See, you're not giving me credit for the fact that it's just not my shit. Wait, what am I giving you credit for? That you press play? No, you're not giving me credit. What you're saying is that I didn't like it. You should be back in the day. Let's tell you got something.

Y'all know common right now as a rapper that everybody gets and understands. But in the 90s, when common for you, first came out. And he was common sense. He was common sense. And it was some real heady shit, right? It was super heady. It was like your comment was coming out.

You know, all of that, very rapidly, rapidly. And dudes from Chicago, anytime you said you didn't like common, it'd be like, you know, that's just because you don't understand what that man to speak. You don't get it. And once you elevate your consciousness, you're going to be able to understand what common talking about.

Bullshit. I don't like them beats that common was rapping over. in the early days. I don't like that shit at all. So you didn't like the whole, I like the, were you shocked that I knew that he used to be common sense? No, I'm not shocked at all. I'm not shocked at all.

I'm not shocked at all, Rich. Okay. Did you not like Hamilton because you couldn't get past the way they were delivering the message and the story to you? Like, could you, and you couldn't get past that so you couldn't enjoy the whole thing? Is that what you're saying? I'm saying it is shocking.

I will admit, you can be told about Hamilton, but when you actually see, see it and they just start rapping and you're just kind of taking a back for a second. It is shocking. I will give you that. I'm saying basically this. I don't like that shit. So I was right in my assumption.

Basically, I don't like that shit. I love rent. I think rent. I like all of that stuff. Wait, is there a rapping rent? There's a little rapping. There's a little bit of a rap. This is a little bit of rapping rent.

So I like rent. There are musicals that I absolutely adore. I like The Wiz. Y'all not going to talk about the Wiz, though. I like The Wiz. I love the Wiz. Hamilton ain't no Wiz. Hamilton ain't no Wiz, though.

Hamilton's not the Wiz. Yeah, exactly. Probably because, to me, it's part of the culture and we grew up on it. Right. So. But anyway, so I'm just saying, there's my Hamilton review. By the way, I'm not saying that Hamilton was a bad movie. that I watched.

Not saying that at all. What I'm saying is that that shit is not for me. Okay. Okay. It's not for you. And I didn't expect you to say anything else. Why am I feeling like that's a diss, though? It's not a diss.

You're saying that in a way. No, it was predictable. If you told me with the moment that you said you wanted to talk about your Hamilton review, I thought, ah, I already know how this is going to go. But wait, do you remember when Hamilton was in the cipher? No. What Hamilton's cipher? What was that?

No, you know how BET, the hip-hop awards always did? Do you remember when Hamilton did it? Oh, like in the movie when they had the cipher, in the play or whatever. No, like, you know how, okay, you know BET hip-hop awards. So tell people what a cipher is, first of all. Tell people what a cipher is. Because a lot of them that are listening to this don't know what a cipher is. Okay, I can only explain it from the BET hip-hip-a-a-whip-a-worse.

I can't give you, like, an actual definition. But the only reason I watched the hip-hop awards was for the cipher. And that they break out into different. We don't break out, but they are in different groups. And the way they started to change it was it would hit like a different version of hip hop. So you might have somebody from the South. Am I not explaining this correctly? Because you're laughing at me.

No, no, I love this. I'm like, now I'm doing this for your entertainment. No, I want to hear what the Cypher is. I want to hear what the Cypher. Let me do the Rachel's song and dance. That's what I feel like I'm doing now. Anyways, I can only describe it and how I watch it on the Hip Hop Awards. but it's, who's the DJ from Houston?

I'm not, I can't think of the same. Anyways, he did. Thank you. DJ Premier is doing the beat, and you would have, like, TD doing their thing, and then you'd have, like, T.I. and all his people under his label. So different labels were representing.

In one year, they did Hamilton, and they were rapping, and it was YouTube it. It was so good, and that made me want to see it. Now, DeViz can rap. V.D. I don't think. he was in there. Devee Diggs, well, DeVie Diggs can rap.

No doubt about it. DeVee Diggs can rap. No, no, no hatred on DeVee Diggs. Linnewell Miranda is fantastic. Renee did well too. Okay, these people, okay, I'm just saying, Hamilton wasn't, and by the way, a cipher for everybody that knows, is literally just a group of people sitting around rap.

That's all it is. And then on the BETT Awards, they do different ciphers from different areas. They'll do like a West Coast Cipher, East Coast Cipher, Chicago Cipher. Yes, that's what I said. Same thing, same thing. Same thing. It's just a group of people standing around rap. I was listening to how Rachel was going to describe it.

A cipher goes all the way back to the Afro-American traditions of standing around post-slavery and singing different songs and throwing a ball around. It's part of the jubilation that African Americans understand. You just called him Banks to me and I feel certain kind of a way about that. Oh. Now, speaking of names of things and categories and all of this stuff, Lady Antebellum, which I don't know very much about. They're a country band, right? Don't defer to me.

I don't know much about them either. This is one of the more fascinating stories that I think we've ever, ever covered here on Highland. Really? I think so. You don't think so? Let me pull up the article. So this is the situation about Lady Antebellum. They have songs.

I've heard the songs before. They actually sound kind of grooving. Here's the thing. Here's the crazy thing about country is if you let yourself listen to it, that shit kind of slap sometimes, man. Because it's based off the blues. Yeah, like, do you listen to a couple of country songs, man? That shit is like like the... Who's your favorite?

Name a country song. Name an artist other than Lady Antebellum. Name an artist? Other than, let's see. Sam Hunt. Wow, you went recent. I'm actually impressed. Yeah, man.

Sam Hutt used to play quarterback at you. A. B. Sam Hunt. I like Sam Hunt. What's the one that goes, body like a back road? Who sings that? Wow. You know more than me, Van. I don't know. I don't know that song. Some of them songs, they slap a little bit. Back to Garth Brooks, Colin Baton Rouge. We play that at the LSU games. Garth Brooks, yes. Yeah, Thunder rolls, lightning and strikes, all that shit. Okay.

Slaps. I'm a coach. Oh, Spice. Oh, Van, I'm shocked. I'm shocked. See, there you go. So anyway, Lady Antebellum, a very popular country band that recently changed their name to Lady A. The Antebellum, where I grew up here in Baton Rouge, the antebellum home is a plantation home. So the term antebellum could be in there as it is, not could be, is. It is, yes. A slave term.

It, you know, speaks to slavery times. It means to a lot of people in this country, slavery stuff. So they changed their name to Lady A. Now, they wanted to officially do this last month to change their name to Lady A. It turns out that there was a woman. Her name is Anita White. Anita White is a blues singer and a jazz singer who already had the name Lady A. This is a Black lady.

So there you go. They're officially trying to change your name to Lady A. There already is a Lady A. Apparently, there seemed like there was some movement happening between Anita White and Lady Anterine. for them to figure something out. This was big time celebrated on social media when they were all coming together like they were going to get this figured out.

According to Lady Antebellum's people, my sister Anita White, which I got to give her credit for, said, yo, if you want the name, give me $10 million. $10 million. To which Lady Antebellum was like, we didn't say that we were,

we just want the name. We're not going to build you. Yeah. Yeah, we want the name. Right. We're not trying to pay you reparations. We just need the name. So now they are at an impasse.

Lady Antebellum now is, I guess, suing Lady A. They suing this black woman. They, the irony. The irony in the name Antebellum and that it represents pre-Civil War times, they step, embodied that name to the fullest because of what they're doing to poor Anita White. Now, I will say this. Also, Lady Antebellum, because we're just going to call them by their full name at this point,

because we don't know who has Lady A. It's still Anita at this point. They have been asked for years to change their name. I just want to point that out. I did not know that. They have been asked before to change their name, and they have not. Now, in light of the movement, they've filled. the social pressure. They're doing it. Fine. Good for them. They're changing their name. The problem is

the irony in you're changing your name. You're taking a black woman's name. And then she wants to get paid for it, but I will go back to this because there's confusion over it. She wants to get paid for it. And then you're going to sue her for that. And it's her name. Mind you. She's had it for 20-something years. Here's the confusion. And this might be the basis of the lawsuit. Apparently they had some type of conversation now. If it was verbal, it's not really in their favor. But they had some type of agreement and they both posted the same message on social media

saying they were excited that they were moving forward with positive resolution and common ground. Even Anita posted that to her social media. And the next day said, hold up, wait a minute, I want to get paid. Now, to me, it seems like they had a conversation because Anita posting it seems like she agreed with it. Anita went back to her friends and they were like, girl,

are they not paying you for taking your name that you've had for 20 years? That's not okay. Right. And then Anita said, I want to get paid. That's what it seems to me. Yeah. Well, I guess if one other thing I point out is Lady Antibelam also says that they've been sort of used, they sort of used the nickname Lady A.

As part of their lawsuit, they say that they say that, they applied to register Lady A, the name Lady A, for videos, performances, merchandise back in 2010, and they got no opposition, including from Anita White. So they said that they tried to register Lady A because it's a nickname that they've used before, and they got no opposition. I don't know if they were able to successfully get that or if they were able to successfully get that, or if they were never able to get it. It seems like if they were able to get some kind of trademark or register then,

that they wouldn't have a problem getting it now. But I'm not sure what's going on as far as that's concerned. It depends what they filed the trademark for. So they filed three trademarks back 10 years ago in 2010. They tried to file a fourth one recently last month. So those first three trademarks probably were using the Lady A in a different form. Not to use it as a band name. So that's where the Confucians.

going to come. And if she can prove that people will confuse her lady A with them, she's going to win this case. One of the first IP cases that you learned in law school is an Uncle Luke song using the pretty woman. Yeah, it's like one of the first cases. I had a black teacher, so maybe that's why it was our first one. But it's one of the first, this is like a popular issue when it comes to artistry. So, I mean. So you, so, and you, so, and you, so, and you, you, so, and your expert legal expertise, expert legal expertise, you think that Lady Antebellum is probably going to lose this case? It depends what those other three trademarks are for. I would, and I'm not, and I am not an IP attorney, but the fact that they filed a fourth trademark last month makes it seem like

Lady A did not cover who they are and represent them. They were using Lady A in a different aspect. Now, Anita White has not filed a trademark for the name, the use of the name Lady A. So she's going to have a harder time showing that she's been using this name over the last 20 years, but she still might be able to because they want to use it in the same way. Here's the thing. Lady Antebellum needs to be insanely careful here. They already messed up, man. I know, but they really need to play this one right. The reason being is because this is sort of a conundrum of living in America as a black person.

Someone who says they're trying to help you ends up directly taking from you. So because Lady Antebellum wants to change their name to do what they feel like is the right thing, an actual black woman has to suffer. That is precisely what we're moving away from. It's very antebellum. It's very antelum. Like she has to suffer. They have to file a lawsuit against her to make,

so one black person has to suffer for the rest of the black people to feel better about something. That even, that in and of itself is what we're more moving away from. We're moving away from Colin Kaepernick having to lose his whole career to start something. We're moving away from Mega Everest having to lose their life or black people having to get shot by the cops so we can address these things. We're moving away from the individual black person have to lose so that everybody else can win. And I know that that seems

like I went deep with that, but the reality is I don't want to see this sister get sued. But how do they not see that? I don't know. What's the point of you changing your name, right? You're changing your name because of what it represents, even though you've been asked for a long time to change that name. It represents a time before the Civil War, before slaves were free people. And now you are using the system to go against a black woman. And all because you're changing your name to fight it looking like you're a part of a racist time. It's the irony in it. It's just, it's, they've got to stop. They must be stopped. By way, I'll tell you something, they must be stopped. We must Stop,

they must be stopped. They must be stopped. By the way, I'll tell you something. Something that I like is what I wish is that I could have been a fly on the wall

for the conversation of how Lady A came up with the $10 million number. Like the friend, the conversation with the friend that you say happened? Because she went back, she was probably talking to her girls

like, yo, I had a conversation with them. I'll tell you. They are so cool. They seem like they are so cool. Like, girl, you know how many records they did it so? they just sold 10 million records in the U.S. You asked them for a dollar

a record. That makes sense, girl, we can go to Anguilla, we can go to Tom Joyner Cruz. I can hear the conversation. You know how many places with things we can do? We're done. You don't even have to tour no more. You know what I mean? You get one of the wigs like Beyonce wear

and like the minute she came back and she deserves that. If she's going to give her name up to this big huge bank, give it with $10 million, man. I say $20. I wouldn't have given it up. That's just me. I would have just been stubborn and said, I'm keeping my name, pick something else, be lady aunt. But how much money would it take for somebody to buy the name Rachel Lindsay from you? It's priceless. You wouldn't sell Rachel Lindsay.

Why would I do? Why would I want somebody else walking around being me? Listen, I'm asking you. Like right now. No, I would not sell my name. I would not sell. I would not sell. There's no. 50 million. So that's your number. No, I'm asking. you. 50 million for Rachel's. I don't want to sell my name. 100 million. $200 million.

$200 million. No, there is no number. Let's say Hannah B. Let's say she wanted to be, let's say Hannah B said she wanted to be known as Rachel Lindsay and she was going to buy the name Rachel Lindsay, $500 million.

No. Would you sell it? You're walling. You're walling right now. No, I'm not. You're walling. $500 million you wouldn't sell. the name. So you would. Got it. So if, so if, uh, who can, who's a person? Donald Trump wants to be

Van Latham. There we go. For $500 million, I want you. I want your name. I want to take your identity. Thank you. Here's a difference. Here's the difference though. Here's the difference, though. It will be irresponsible of me to sell my name because it is also my father's name. So I'm Van Lathen Jr. No, okay. Remember how the last time you said. I should have been a lawyer. I should have been a lawyer.

I should have been a lawyer. Yeah, I'm a junior. Yeah, I'm a junior. But you know what? Point made, though. Point made. Nah, I'm not selling it. Not to Trump, but I will, I'll tell you,

I would sell it to maybe like Pence, somebody just under Trump for $500 million. I might. I might. Because think about the $500. If Pence, if Pence was in office, he'd be worse than Trump. It'd be way worse.

Way worse. And y'all need to know that. Trump. Speaking of Trump, Segway, I'm like two for two on segues. Three for three, maybe. This episode is brought to you by Sweet Green. The day doesn't ask for

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Ask your doctor about trim fire. this ad to learn more about Tramfaya, including important safety information. Oh, our favorite Trump-loving rapper, I guess he's Trump-loving, Kanye West is continuing with his push for the White House. He, I guess, showed up on Forbes to, I say, I guess, I mean, he did this, I guess, to sort of explain or define his platform. It was kind of a rally. Yeah, no, it was kind of a rally. He was. explaining his position on certain policies. Go ahead.

So let's just go through some of the bullet points of this. Kanye West did an interview with Forbes. He said he would run as a Republican, but he's not running as a publican because Trump is there. And this is interesting. Kanye both says in this interview that Trump is the closest president we've ever had in years to allow God to still be a part of the conversation. It's what you guys to remember. And I'm not in any way

for dissing people. Trump has had sex with porn stars. He's assaulted women. I don't, I didn't see Jesus say that any of those things were cool. No, fan, just point people to the photo op. The photo op of Kanye and Trump? No, point people to Trump holding that Bible.

Like he had never seen that in his entire life in front of a church. that he didn't step inside of. Right. He talked about the Magahad moment. He said he wore it as a protest. But he also says that he is no longer a big fan of the president. He says he's lost confidence in the president.

Now, there are a lot of things that stuck out to me in this interview, right? A lot of things that Ye said in this interview, and it's all over the place. I personally think, and I don't want to diagnose the brother, that Ye might be going through it again. I will tell you, no, no. You don't have to assume an article has come out in People magazine that Kim is worried about him right now because he's had. Yeah. The title of the article is Kanye West struggling with bipolar disorder. Kim Kardashian is concerned.

That's what a source is saying. So she's saying that he has episodes that can last for weeks and this is coming out in light of his recent announcement of wanting to run for president under the birthday party. That's the name of the party, the birthday party. Okay. So Kim can't be that worry because she enable it. She enabled it. What is she going to do, though?

But when he tweeted it out, she then, well, she tweeted, she then retweeted it with the American flag on there. Well, this is what I will say, not that I'm saying, what is she going to do? Like, she should support her man. It's more of, she is so concerned with perception that she, not going to make anything seem like anything is wrong. So it's all a part of that brand to publicly at least support him and make it seem like everything is okay.

That's how I look at it. Okay. So let me give you guys a little bit of TMZ inside information. That article that came out in people 100% came from the Kardashian camp almost to the point that they would have written at them. There's no, there's nothing to believe. I'm telling you straight up that whenever you read something

in a publication like TMZ or people, and it's about the Kardashians, it 100% directly came from them. Directly. So Kim, for whatever reason, orchestrated that article.

That's not even people around her who are then running to people. That's Chris and Kim and the rest of them speaking, even if they're, come out and say no. So the question is, why would you on one side enable that? You know that. And then on the other side, put something out that that, that, that is clearly cutting against it. You're giving people insider knowledge. The casual, the casual person is like,

oh, Kim's supporting them. She has to publicly give that image. On people, it's a source is saying this. It's not Kim Kardashian is saying it. You know what I mean? But you're right. Usually when people say source, it is coming from the direct first. that they're talking to. 100%. I've even been quoted like that, a source to Rachel Lindsay. It was 100% me. Oh, you, okay, Rachel got so, okay, Rachel's source and shit.

All right, so this is Kanye's management model that he's going to use. Listen, you guys think that this is an S&L sketch? It's not. I want everyone to listen to this. The Wakanda management model. Wakanda is the fictional yet fucking amazing country that exists in Black Panther,

the Marvel movie that did over a billion dollars. Might be up to two now. That's what he says. A lot of Africans, this is Kanye West's words. A lot of Africans do not like the movie Black Panther and representation of themselves in Wakanda. But I'm going to use the framework of Wakanda right now because it's the best explanation of what our design group

is going to feel like in the White House. That is a positive idea. You got Kanye West, one of the most powerful humans. I'm not saying the most powerful because you got a lot of alien level superpowers and it's only collectively that we can set it free. Don't the fuck that means. Let's get back to Wakanda. Like in the movie Wakanda where the king went to visit that lead scientists to have the shoes wrapped around her shoes.

Just the amount of innovation that can happen. The amount of innovation in medicine like Big Farmer, we are going to work, innovate. This is not going to be some nipsy hustle being murdered. They're doing a documentary. We have so many soldiers that die for our freedom, our freedom of information, that there is a cure for AIDS out there. It's going to be a mix of big pharma and holistic. This makes me sad. Yeah, it's very upsetting when you read it like that.

Yeah, I mean, it's, I didn't even, I mean, I looked over this article and I saw that quote, but I guess I skimmed over it and I'm hearing you say the whole thing. And it's actually sad at this point. You know, we talked about Kanye last week. and at that point he had not given these type of details. And it was erratic, I guess. Well, we've seen him announce before that he wanted to run for president. So it wasn't necessarily a surprise. But nobody really took it seriously because of what he's going to have to do to get on ballots in certain states.

And most of the big states have passed. Sure. But then for him to have this interview, four hours of rambling is how it was described with Forbes and talking off the wall about so many different subjects. it's alarming van. Like now it's not like, oh, that's Kanye. Like he's just doing this for attention. Oh, that's Kanye, you know, trying to take the black vote away.

No, like this is Kanye. Erratic behavior. And it's sad. It's sad now. You know, I get that. And you're right. And I feel that as I was reading that, it seemed like the rantians Ravens of somebody who, you know, maybe might need a little tighten up, need somebody to

kind of get him some help or maybe focus a little bit. Is there a possibility that all of this is performative though? For his new album? Not even for a new, I mean, maybe for the new album, but more so just that we, there's always stages in which this thing with Ye goes, right? It always, it starts with Izye's Series, right? Then it starts with is Yeh, then it goes. to is yea dangerous. And it ends up in is yea okay. And we do this

every couple of years whenever something like this happens. Is he serious? Is he dangerous? Is he okay? And it seems like he's never serious, maybe a little dangerous, but at the end of it

always seems to be okay. So isn't it us that need to turn the page now a little bit. When does this become old hat? I'm asking for myself as well because it's another thing, obviously with my career, I'm going to be linked to Kanye West forever, right? So forever. But yeah, is it on us to stop falling for this now?

But are we, but is he okay? Because if the cycle is repeating, is this, is he really okay? Or are they just masking his behavior? I don't know. I don't know. But this is sad to me. I mean, just to hear him talk about, they ask about foreign policy. I don't know anything about that.

I got to research it. They ask about taxes. Don't know anything about that. Haven't done the research on it. It's just, but the Wakanda thing got me. That, I said, you're basing real life off of a fictional movie? a fake world, a fake country. It's really sad, man.

Alien level super, what did he say? Alien level supos. That's not the most dangerous thing you said, though. You know what the most dangerous thing you said it was? The most dangerous thing in there is easy. It's easy. It's so many of our children that are being vaccinated and paralyzed. That's not true.

So when they say we're going to fix COVID with the vaccine, I'm extremely cautious. That's the mars of the beasts. They want to put chips inside. of us, they want to do all kinds of things to make it to where we can't cross the gates of heaven. I'm sorry when I say they, the humans that have the devil inside of them. And the sad thing is that, the saddest thing is that we all won't make it to heaven. There'll be some of us that do not make it. Next question. We're in the middle of a very deadly pandemic.

And at some point in that pandemic, there is going to be a vaccine or a breakthrough in technology that is going to help us to find our way out of that pandemic. That part of it, The vaccination part of it will be one of the least new things ever to happen in the history of this pandemic, right? The vaccine part of it is what normally happens to figure out a disease. Now, there are some diseases that don't have vaccines, right? Some that you're unlucky enough to get that all you can do is treat them. But what we are hoping is that COVID is not one of those diseases. No one is going to vouch for the 100% safety of a vaccine.

vaccine. But what we are saying is that if you get in your car and use a safety belt or if you eat food from a grocery store, all of these things have scientific components in which keep you safe to on its face dismiss a vaccine because of some weird, wacky, far-out conspiracy theory that you might have is wow. Yeah. Yeah. And it's very dangerous. It is. It is. dangerous, but there were a lot of things he said that were wrong. I mean, he even goes into the George Floyd case and he talks about the cop that was black and it was his first day on the job. That's not true. That was not his first day on the job. And he'd get and he basically excuses his behavior as in what would you do on your first day of the job? You know, would you, would you allow

another black, you'd allow another black man to be killed too. It's just all, it's, it's, it's all wrong from the, from the moment he said birthday party to ending it with his slogan's going to be Kanye West, yes. It's all bad. It gets what he needs, man. Hobie gets what he needs. Now, go back a little bit. Speaking of Black Lives Matters,

things like that, Christian Cooper, a lot of people don't remember the Christian Cooper, Amy Cooper situation because as upset as we were about the Christian Cooper, Amy Cooper thing, there have been things that have just dwarfed that in terms of intensity and impact

since it happened, but just a refreshing memory. Amy Cooper was a woman who was hanging around in the ramble there in Central Park. The ramble is an area in Central Park where a lot of people like to go bear watch. You have to have your dog on a leash in the ramble, apparently, because dogs were fucking off the chain in the ramble at some point. Amy Cooper didn't have her dog on a leash. Christian Cooper was a black man walking through their bear watching. And he called her on it.

Put your dog on a leash. She freaked out. He taped her. She on the tape was going insane, saying that an African-American man is threatening me. The video went viral. Amy Cooper suffered the consequences of really putting Christian Cooper's life in danger. Thank you. By the tone of her voice and the way that she was acting.

Now, Amy Cooper lost her job. They took the dog, eventually to get the dog back, I think. Yes, they do. What has happened now is that the DA is investigating this up there in New York. Christian Cooper has decided he has not. not going to be a part of pressing charges against Amy Cooper. He said he feels like because she's lost her job, have been a public pariah that she has suffered enough.

He said she's already paid a steep price. He said he doesn't care if the DA brings charges against her, but he will not be a part of that charge being brought. Well, if the DA brings charges against her, you're going to be subpoena to testify. So unless you just want to ignore a court order and be held in content, you're going to have to go and appear. I'm shocked that that is his reaction because I am.

Because if it were me, I would use every criminal and civil punishment I could against O'le Amy. Without any type of regret. And the reason being is because you put my life in jeopardy and my life is priceless. Because if the police had shown up and he, let's say he didn't have that video and they had believed her, who knows what could have happened to him. To me, that will always be ingrained in my mind if I were him. It is very compassionate of him that he says she suffered because she's lost her job and she's been put on Front Street and the world knows who she is and she has a nickname and all of that stuff. But for her to be charged criminally is what he's saying is taking it too far. No, it is not.

It ain't taking it too far. The woman did something wrong and she should be punished. Would Amy show you this same compassion? No, she already hasn't because all you asked was to put her dog on a leash and she caught the cops on you and fabricated an entire story. I just don't believe that he should be this. He's being way too nice. go ahead because you said you're shocked.

Are you going to disagree with me? No, I thought you would have, I thought you would see it the other way. Why? I don't know. I thought you'd see it the other way. To me, I don't like this virtue disease that seems to afflict black America. Exactly. The reality is that a crime was committed against you.

Yes. I put you like this. Christian Cooper doesn't have any control over what social media does to Amy Cooper. he doesn't. He doesn't have any control over whether or not she loses her job. He doesn't have any control over whether or not she loses her dog. None of those things are things that he can control. The one thing that actually happened to him was a crime.

And in my opinion, he should seek, if for no other reason, then as a deterrent, to have that crime prosecuted to the full extent of the law. That's his part of it. His part of it is not to cancel. He can't control anybody canceling her. That's not on him. The part of it that he's involved with is the actual criminal part because a crime was committed against him.

There's going to have to be a part of us. I know it's hard that we're going to have to let go from the feeling of protecting Massa. And I'm sorry that I had to put it that way. That's how it comes across. Yes, you're right. Yeah, but I'm sorry that I had to put it that way, but that's how it is. Now, far be it for me to besmirch Christian Cooper and the dignified way he's responded and handled all of this, I'm not saying that.

I'm just saying to me, like, consequence is a fantastic teacher. And I'm not saying that I don't care if Amy Cooper gets hired again. If her job hired her back tomorrow, I wouldn't care. But when we commit crimes, we get bane for them. So what I'm saying is, if we really want to use this as a deterrent, let people see what happens when you do it. Because the thing also people need to know is Christian recorded the video out of for his own safety, but it was actually his sister that reposted it. So he wasn't even trying to get the whole attention from it and say, hey, look at Amy. It was his sister that reposted it.

but she did repost it and we saw it. And it brought up this entire issue of white women weaponizing the police against black men. That should be a whole crime in itself. There should be some type of legislation that that should be illegal. Oh, there is. They just did it. You saw that? Oh, yeah, the San Francisco thing.

The San Francisco thing. It's called the, this is so San Francisco, you're so petty. Like San Francisco has been proposed in San Francisco. Let me tell y'all, I like, like, like, like, like. Let me tell you all, let me tell you all how petty San Francisco is. I love the petty in San Francisco. San Francisco has posed the caution against racial, exploitive non-emergencies. That is the Karen.

That's the city of San Francisco. They have a black mayor. Black mayor. They petty up there. The Karen Act. I tell you what, it was probably some drinks flowing when they came. came up with that, yo, what if we called that shit the Karen Act? The next day, they was like, fuck it, let's do it.

I love that. Oh, they're so mad. There's a Karen support meeting somewhere where they just upset. Twitzy the name Karen, so the ordinance is similar to a bill introduced here in California by assemblymen Rob, excuse me, a different part of California by an assemblyman named Rob Bonta. it's using 911 as a tool for prejudice against marginalized communities is making that unjust wrong and illegal. Something that Bonta had said earlier.

And they're trying to protect Californians from being the targets of hate and prevent the weaponization of our law enforcement against communities of color. That is what this seeks to do. It's the Karen Act. Karen Act. It's beautiful thing. I think it is a beautiful thing. So that's out there right now. We'll see how far that goes.

By the way, there is going to be some pushback about that. Somebody's going to get there. Cairns are going to be upset. Cairns are already out here on social media saying that calling somebody a white woman a Karen is the equivalent to saying the N-word. Like that's how they're- No. Do you think that the term Karen is wrong?

That it's wrong to call a white woman a Karen. Do you feel like that's a racial slur? I do not think it's a racial slur. Interesting. There are women named Karen. What are we supposed to do? Stop, get them to change their names. My manager's name, Karen.

She's very upset about it. She's why? I have two managers. One is a Rondea, Gierre, shout out to a Runday. Black, before you start, the other men. He wanted everybody to know.

Like, like, like, oh. He wanted everybody to know. He got black on his team. Black, black. I was going to clown you, though. Before y'all even start, black. Black. Okay. My other manager is Karen Kinney, and she is incredibly close to me. I love Karen. But now she is a Karen.

Karen, like, whenever me and her disagree about something now, I always like, don't go Karen on me, Karen. She hates it. It's so funny. You're part of the problem. But was Becky a racist term? No. No. But that was something different, though. when they were using the Becky term Oh, which Becky term are you talking about? There's more than one. Oh, yeah, there was a, there was a term that you, you don't know what it means to get some Becky?

Well, now I know what that means. You never knew about that. You never heard that, that Ply song. Give me that Becky. Oh, I mean, yeah, but I get, okay. I didn't realize it was a term that everyone used. I just thought it was just that song. For about three years, we tried it.

We tried it. We tried to usher in. Yeah, that wasn't catchy. It doesn't. Nah, because it's weird. You can't, it's weird. You can't be with a different girl and say, give me some Becky.

You know what I mean? She's going to be like, who is whole Becky you talking about? Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Right. But we tried it. All right.

One thing to talk about before we go. Unexpected ally of the week. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. It's not an unexpected ally of the week. I do have an unexpected ally of the week. I do have an unexpected ally of the week.

expected ally of the week, though. Do you have one? Not really. Not really. I have one. I'm not even going to say his name. The NASCAR guy, the white boy that tweeted in favor of Bubba Wallace. What was his name Tyler or something? He's my unexpected ally of the week. But I got to say something. He's insignificant based upon where we're going to end the show with what the week of shows right now. Okay. Then mine's Claudia Conway. Oh, Claudia Conway. That's even a better one. Yeah. I see two weeks in a row, you swat.

me on an unexpected ally of the week. Shout out to Claudia Conway. Well, I'm just trying to give myself some credit before you start speaking. No, I want to talk about this. This is funny. So I watched the video. It was very sweet. Oh, please, y'all. Watch the YouTube of this so you can see Vance face.

Rachel and App Man Brian sat down with Emmanuel Acho. Yep. And P.K. Subin and Lindsey Vaughn, shout out to Lindsay Vaughn, for conversations, was it uncomfortable conversations with a black man? Yes, it's a series that he's doing.

And it's a very popular series. He had Matt McConnornehill on there, and they got all uncomfortable. Now, do you know him from Texas, Emmanuel? Yes, we went to Texas together. Went to Texas together. He played football, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, okay, cool.

So you guys had a talk, and I don't know if you guys know who P.K. Subon is, but he is a black NHL player. Lindsey Vaughn is a white skier. Olympic skier. Olympic skier, very, very popular in Olympic skier. And obviously it was you and Brian. So the talk was all about. And then there's you and Brian. The talk was all about interracial relationships.

Wow. So two things went off in my head when I saw this. Number one, I know why you came to L.A. Now, one, we can't kill from social media. Okay. Well, pull it for social. Put up for social media. Wow.

Like this was, by the way, these thoughts were my initial thoughts when I saw this was a 15-minute talk that you guys had. It was 15-minute, not long enough. His initial thought on social media was, yo, big rage. Big Rache is on an after-school special about swirling. It was like a very special. Do you remember those episodes of Growing Pains where it was like, it would come on Thursday. You'd see the advertisers.

It's like, you don't want to miss tonight's episode of Growing Paints. It's going to be a very special episode. You know it was about them using cocaine or some shit like that. Well, you guys were sitting down. There was all this like fucking like soft, dramatic music playing in the background.

Y'all in this all white background. That's his setup. Everybody's bearing their feelings about interracial relationships. I got to admit, it was one of the more hilarious videos I've ever seen. Why? Okay, forget the setup. Talk about the content. Why was it so funny to you?

So it was funny because, number one, Lindsay Vaughn was terrified. It felt like. I saw somebody else say that. She wasn't in person. Oh, it looked like somebody had a gun in her back. I think she was scared of what she, that she was going to say the wrong thing, which a lot of white people like. Yeah, she was terrified of it.

And a room full of black people. A room full of black people. And it seemed like she was sitting there like, I got whatever you would say, she would be like, of course, I feel the same way. And it just, the conversation was just kind of like, the conversation was like, I know, seriously. Like, like Lindsay, because you said something, somebody said something about whether or not Lindsay feels like black women are going to hate her.

She said that. And I said, well, I was that black woman. And then right away, she was like, oh, well, maybe you're right to think that. Maybe we should start a book club together or something like that's where I can learn every single week. And it was just, it was, I'll tell you why I was funny. Seriously, it was funny because, number one, it didn't seem like that was big rage in that setting. You were trying to let everybody else get off.

and I know that everybody cares about that. Everybody cares about like the actual subject of interracial dating and stuff like that. But how did you feel about the video? Like did you feel like the video? So you didn't feel like it was me. Is that what you're saying? You were...

Not just that it wasn't you, because you're always you. And you were very open and honest about it. You just have so much more power when you speak than so many people. But that like... That's kind of how you would expect... if I was going to write that scene for like Nickelodeon,

like that's the scene I would have wrote. It didn't seem like it was getting to the, it didn't seem like it was getting to the bottom of nothing. Okay. So this is how I feel. It's a manual show. And I'll tell you what I said to you when we weren't on the podcast. It is not for black people.

Maybe that is the intention, but from what I have seen from it and when I talk to other black people, they don't watch it, they don't like it, they don't get it. Saying that against, and I'm not saying that against Emmanuel because I adore him.

But the original concept of all of this, the original concept was, it was supposed to be, why are you laughing so hard? I can't even say it. Do you agree with me? Whoa. I have never seen something

So definitive. What I heard from people that I know is they don't watch it. They don't like it. They don't get it. That's our first T-shirt. Our first Highland T-shirt is they don't watch it. They don't like it. They don't get it.

Oh, my God. But the thing is, like, now I'm seeing it from your end, but I, but I, you ask me what I feel about that. So that is how I feel. I understand the background of it because originally he wanted me to do this with him. And he wanted another black guy because he wanted different perspectives of black people. And he wanted a white male and a white woman. It didn't work out. So he decided to do it by himself.

And I think it's better for him that he does it by himself. He does a great job. He does a fantastic job. And this is why I say it's for white people because it's not an uncomfortable conversation. If you were hosting it, it would be extremely uncomfortable. Emmanuel doesn't make people feel uncomfortable. They're willing to accept information when he presents it and because of the way he does it. He is very smart.

So the only issue I would have with it is and why you maybe felt like, oh, that's not really big rage. One, I'm sharing the stage with four other people. Also, it's only 15 minutes or less. So how can you delve into more than we're just an interracial relationship without talking about it? Because, for example, I think what people needed to know is P.K. is a man who was born in the Caribbean, moved to Canada, went to live with a white family at the age of 15, and plays a majority white sport. He admittedly said his perspective is different from a black man who was born and raised in America. He had a completely different experience. And I think that affects into how he sees certain things

and how he was speaking in that room. There was a lot more that I wanted to say about my perspective and questions I personally had for Lindsay. But the time didn't a lot for that. And it was just more of us confronting the fact that we were an interracial couple more than having an uncomfortable conversation about it. Because I never felt uncomfortable.

You don't normally, though. I don't think that anyone could actually put you in a conversation with uncomfortable. I'll tell you one thing about you tried it. Yeah, just, but it's almost like a, but it's a big brother like, yo, you know what I mean?

But I'm gonna tell you something about PK. And it's the only part of it that I thought actually vacillated that it vacillated from just kind of like whatever to a little bit problematic. But I'm not saying kick P.K. Subon in the nuts, please guys, don't. But what I'm saying is this is when P.K. Subun says that like,

black women or when it's intimated that black women that have a problem with prominent black men marrying white women or being with white women when he says that's ignorance that's unfair to sisters that's unfair to black women okay now if you're in an interracial relationship that doesn't feel right that feels wrong they feel ignorant but they're not they're not ignorant at all what's speaking to them is both, and I'm not going to speak for black women, but I'm going to tell you what I've talked, what I've heard from black women that I've talked to, including my mother and my sisters and people like that, is that America has shown their ass to black women forever. And that doesn't stop even in the community sometimes, unfortunately, in every way. And tapping in the

lead in the beauty standard, in pay, in safety, whatever way you want to put that. And so sometimes, from sisters I've talked to, what they really want to see is black men come along and be actively part of what makes them whole.

You know, give them that sense of security and I can lean on you and I'm here for you. And I think that you're beautiful and I think you're capable of leadership. And they want to see the community lift them, up and build them up. And in the union, the marriage inside of a community is the marriage is the

foundation of the community. It's what makes the community, like the family that you build. And it seems sometimes, and once again, not speaking for sisters, but what I would say to P.K. is that sometimes when sisters see someone who has an opportunity to do that, choose differently, it makes them feel like either that guy believes that America is right about what they say about black women or my mom said that. She's like, it's a reaffirmation. I'll just tell you what she said.

It's a reaffirmation that as soon as black men can jump over a hurdle and get past us that they will, that they'll leave us behind that there's something wrong with us. Now, I'm not saying the same thing. I'm not speaking for sisters that feel like they don't fucking care because there's a lot of them that don't. And I know that you said that.

So for PK, don't call my sister Ziggins. Okay? I know that's not what he was doing. But if it feels unfair dog, that's because it is. But let's kick some real shit. My first thing I said when we got off Mike, I turned to Brian and I was like, I really wish that we could have explained perspectives

of where people are coming from when they say certain things because what I don't want people to say is, oh, which a lot of non-Blacks will do, oh, P.K's a Black man. He said this. That's what all Black men think. That's how they think. And I think you need to understand his upbringing and what his, you know, experience has been to understand why he said the things that he said. I wish I could have gone into more of everything that your mom said. That was me. And that's what I'm like, if my exes saw me, they would be like, Rachel, Rachel's married a man that's not black?

Because I was very much so that. And partly it was because a lot of black men would tell me they don't date black women. And so when I would see them then date outside of their race, it was because we weren't good enough. That's how I felt. And then I would assume anytime I saw a black man with a non-black woman that that's, oh,

they don't think black women are good enough for them. And that's not the case. You know, just like, you know, people see me with Brian and they automatically think they know exactly who I am and you don't. Right. So, you know, people fall in love.

But actually, part of that I blame on you, though, is because in college you just said you were hanging around the football players. And if you hang around the football players. Did I ever? Wait, wait, wait, wait. You just said it's hanging around Emmanuel Acho in college.

So that makes he was my friend. And he actually were in college. Well, my boyfriend was a football player. Boom. Hang around a football player. And by the way, the football players are different because, sorry, white ladies, but this is true. On both sides, you ever see like an offensive lineman his like senior year when they go to him at the draft? What does he have around him?

A white chick and a little baby. They get them hooks in early. They get them hooks in early, early, early. You hit them, like you hit them girls talking about, I think Tyrone's going to go first round. Okay. like me and Mustafa really have a great relationship. So that is different. Now, if you start talking about maybe some bus drivers

and some shit like that, you're going to see a lot of brothers with sisters. But of that, of that ilk, those guys are targets. Oh, I'm saying. All right, before I do you know, 100% targets. Now that I agree with you. Those guys are targets. I watched it. Right.

For four years. All right. Woo. Will we get canceled after this episode? Um. That's enough thought warriors. I have some information that tells me that Monday's show is going to be spectacular. Who said that?

I got some information, or Tuesday show, should I say. I got some information prior to this podcast that tells me something big is happening tomorrow. And that something is going to dominate this weekend. It's a story that we talked about. like a podcast to go. Yeah, I think it was last podcast. And it's finally going to come to a head tomorrow. And so this entire weekend,

and you guys will probably just be getting it as our podcast comes out or maybe it will be a little bit later. So just be on top of that. Listen to us first. Listen to us first. Listen to us. Pay attention to that.

And then Monday, we're going to clean all of the Malibu Opera up on Monday. I can't wait. I am Van Lathen. I'm Rachel Lindsay. All right. Peace out, Thought Wars. Take your can caps off.