Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Difficult Discussions with Michael Rapaport

Episode Date: May 14, 2021

It’s been a long time coming, but finally Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay welcomed actor and fellow podcaster Michael Rapaport to the pod and it was 100% worth the wait. Van and Rachel confront Rap on his divisive but popular social media presence and his complicated relationship to black culture. Things get heated but it’s all love, no hate. Let the audience decide. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Higher learning is on. It is I, Van Lacey. And it's me, Rachel Lindsay. Okay. You want to explain your voice? Okay.

Talk about your voice. Talk about why you're up a couple of octaves. This is my Zen voice. I'm so zinned out. Okay, I'm very zen right now. I'm, you know, tempting to zen. We just had a one-hour interview with Michael Rabbitport. Yeah.

Yeah, finally. Finally got rap on. He came early, y'all. He was here early. He was ready for the shit. I got to be honest with you. Michael Rapport was ready for the shit. He did not run from anything.

He didn't hide from anything. And it got... It went there. And I'm going to tell you something. Sometimes your job and being a co-host is to just sit back and let them. the conversation flow. If you want to call it a conversation, it was a conversation, it was a discussion, it was a debate. It was, it seemed to be things that needed to be said that maybe Van had been

holding in for a while. Same with Michael. But I think the beauty of this entire episode is at the end of it, you guys can have your own takeaway. You guys can decide what's up afterwards. Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimphaya, gusalcumab, taken by injection, is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaques psoriasis,

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See terms at fanduel.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. Yes. So we are going to actually can some of the other topics because the interview went so long and just give you guys that interview for this particular podcast. But I do want to talk about one thing before you get into. Is that okay, right? Do you? Yeah.

What do you want to talk about? Yeah. I want to talk about what happened on the Joe Button podcast. You love to cover what happened on the Joe Button podcast. I have to talk about it. But were you shocked that I was like, yo, what's going on with Joe Button podcast? I never bring it. You know, if I know it's really going down.

Right. Yeah, Rachel hit me up. What's going on with the Joe Button podcast? So this past podcast, I think it dropped on Wednesday. Joe officially fired Rory, and he basically checked Maul and told Maul that he'd have to come back once his head was cleared. And this was very public and very messy and everybody has been discussing it. So it seems as if the J.B.P, as we know it, with Rory, Maul, Joe, Joe, Rory, Moll, Rory, Joe, whatever, is gone. it's over.

And a lot of people are asking questions about why and how or what went on and what happened and, you know. This is all I'll say about this. I've spoken to both Rory and Maul, and they've kind of like giving me some insight into what happened or what went on. But I am not going to speak to that or give any specific details because I fully expect them in the next couple of days to talk about it themselves. And that's oxygen for them. that's something for them to discuss. Like they don't,

I'm not going to get in here and talk about all the stuff that they told me because that's their story. Right. I will, I guess my thing is this. Like at this point in time,

we use a lot of words, right? We talk about culture and family and loyalty and all of those things. And we got to be careful the way we throw those terms around, right? You know, we got to be careful

about when we say we're doing stuff for the culture. The culture is a responsibility. Sure. The culture is, it has weight to it, right? When you're doing stuff on behalf of this and this is what you're about and you're about the culture, you're saying you're about a whole bunch of things that are outside of or bigger than you, right? And if certain things are about the culture, then we wouldn't see some of the outcomes that we see.

When it's about the culture, we see things. go one way. When it's about people, a person, it goes a different way. And that's just on its face. That's just the way I look at that. Like if it's something that's about it, I'm not saying that necessarily this applies to the JCP because I don't remember them ever say that they're parting for the culture. I think you might have said something like that. I think that is the perception. If they didn't, that's the perception that is given about their podcast. Right, right. And so when it's about the culture, then you know,

you put the culture first, all right? And shit, maybe who knows, man? Maybe Joe feels like he's doing that by keeping the pod healthy to whatever degree he feels like he's doing it. Don't seem like that for me. Don't seem like that for a lot of people. You talking to empty chairs?

No. It don't seem like that. No, not at all. It seemed like some real dysfunctional toxic shit. And another thing is this. Words like family. like family you can't fire your family

mm-hmm mm-hmm let me ask you this did you think that it would that it would end up here because the last time we discussed this podcast and the three individuals involved

what we were talking about was the deep friendship that they had they weren't speaking you didn't hear from Rory Amal they weren't talking about the ends and outs of it nobody was speaking and it seemed like there seemed to be a level

of respect because of the friendship and the connection that they had So then to go from that, and then they came back. So to go from that to where we are right now, the public firing, almost the shaming, trying to embarrass. It's just the way that it was done. Jose, him and Rory, wasn't really friends like that.

So, I mean, I don't know. And I think that's what the shock is. Okay, you went from this to this. So what's true? What's real? The people, I don't listen to the podcast, but the people who've been invested for these years, the people who watched you leave one thing to build something else

because you wanted it to stand for something specific that would start contrast to like the big corp. And now you're here. If I'm a listener, I'm just kind of like, where do you go from here? Well, look, they'll be, Joe is sublimely talented at the art of podcasting. It's not saying it's not. There'll be listeners that leave. There'll be listeners that stay.

They'll be listeners that, be honest with you, they'll probably gain from this entire thing because nobody people don't like anything better than they like some mess and you should know that from me haven't been one of the oh see i wasn't even talking to no no no i wouldn't even talk about you it's about me being one of the world's premier mess peddlers for the time that i was yes um most likely you know the podcast will go on and it'll be what it is i'm not sure how if that's going to affect anything but i know two people who will be affected and that's where we're and mom two good guys two stand-up guys two guys that held it down for their nigger and what they nigger for a long time through a lot of shit and whatever went wrong here

whatever happened here if we mean what we say about culture and family and trying to be on one accord in all of these situations these stories got to stop ending up like this these stories got to stop ending up we was all cool and everything was all gravy we blew up and now is just about me. So whatever has to happen, you know what I mean? Because I'm going to be real with you. You know, we talk about us, us, and this. Really, you know what we really are, Rachel?

It seems like sometimes, rather than actually being community or family or culture, we're just a bunch of people that survive some shit. Very true. Very true. And being that that's what we are, We treat everything like that, a fight for survival. We act like that, right? We might say something different, but we act like that.

You're right. You're right. So, okay, so listen up. We've been getting a lot of messages about the conflict that's going on right now in Israel and Palestine. And we want you to know, we hear you, we see it. We definitely want to address it on higher learning because that is what we do. But at the same time, we don't want to be irresponsible in discussing what has happened. happening with this conflict and this war.

So we are going to bring someone on maybe one person, maybe two people to speak towards what is happening in Israel and Palestine. So stay tuned. Ladies and gentlemen. Oh, wow. The moment that you've been waiting for. We've talked about it. We've hyped it up.

We've even called people out over it. And this is how to introduce this. let's get ready to rumble. Okay, because that's how I'm feeling. Ladies and gentlemen, Van Lathen versus Michael Rappaport. Enjoy. We're going to take a break and come back with the interview. Peace.

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Visit weathertech.com today. Guys, we have teased this interview for a while. We talked about it for a couple of weeks. We have finally been able to make it happen. Actually, a couple of months. We've finally been able to make it happen. We have Michael Rappaport joining us today on higher learning. Michael, we're happy that you joined this day, bro. We appreciate it. We are, Michael. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me. I've always took a notice of the title, which I'm sure has something to do with the great John Singleton film, Higher Learning, which I'm a proud, proud to be a part of. Always was proud to do that film, exciting time in my life and a lot of people, other people, other people's career. And of course, John Singleton, uh, always was proud to do that film. Uh,

you know, left a great, great body of work and it's just a good dude. And, you know, whenever I see higher learning with Rachel Lindsay and Van Latham, that's the first thing that I think about. So, right, that movie is amazing. Yeah, it's a fun movie. It's a fun movie. It's a good movie. It was a fun time. It's like a different, a different world to go. Yeah, I don't know if fun would be the way to describe it, but it was fun for you probably making it. But it's a hard, No, it's a hard-hitting movie. It's a hard-hitting movie. It was a fun, it was a fun,

I'm just in terms of the contact, the time in my life and the time of being that age, I believe I was, I think a movie, we shot that movie in 94, so I was 24, and just being around Singleton and being around Ice Cube and Buster Rhymes and Regina King and, you know, all the other people in the film,

Cole Houser and all those guys. It was just an exciting, it was a fun set, Omar Epps, it was a fun set to be on. But it was intense, but, you know, we were 24 years old. So, you know, I mean, I was. Everybody, everybody, the people I just mentioned were all about, you know, the same age. So it was, it was dope and just, it was exciting to work with John

because I was such a fan of his. And like I said, you know, at that point, you know, when you're 24 years old is a, as a, you know, actor and you know you're getting success it's just like oh shit i'm doing this dope part in this dope movie you know and uh you know it was this it was it was fun but yeah that movie definitely provoked a lot of conversations it still does you know people uh only really like in the hood though but like people in the hood always you know will be like remi what up rami what up you know and uh it's like they know that character by name which yeah which is cool yeah that was uh um

Speaking to the movie itself, it's almost interesting how that movie was pressing in a way in talking about some of the, the movie was all about this huge melting pot and the divisions that were tearing people apart and how things boiled over to a point.

I mean, in higher learning, if you guys haven't seen the movie, fantastic film, John Singleton, everybody he just named Tyra Banks. It's got a great cast of Lawrence Fishburn, I forget. Lawrence Fishburn, like so many people. But the movie dealt with, I mean, we're talking about there was LGBT issues.

Right. There was racial issues. There was social, economy. There was issues. Everything. Everybody smashed together at Christopher Columbus University. Yeah. And then, you know, things, it almost described America in the Trump era where there was this, this, like, intractability that people could like get passed.

Yeah. It's true. I forgot about, I mean, you know, like, because it's so much of the race stuff, but the LGBT stuff and the sexual. It's crazy. Twitter would have a field day with that movie these days. They would be, they would be, social media would be elated with higher learning if it came out now. But now so many different shows, movies, podcasts, forums, have those things. But yeah, John, that was dope.

Yeah, that was, it was almost like when I remember some of the reviews or some of the things, It was too many different topics at the time. But nonetheless, it was a great, a great experience and a great, I mean, just a, like I said, it was just fun being on that set. It was just fucking fun, you know, being on that set. I have so many different memories and stories and just, it was just exciting. It was just, I mean, being 24 is exciting. You know, you think you're going to be that age forever. Right.

Yeah. Michael, let's, let's start off. We share a love for reality TV. So let's start off light. there's so many things to talk about with you. So I'm just going to ask you off the top. Yeah, we don't have to get to everything, but we can't because I know it's like sometimes you know in podcast.

One thing I don't like about doing podcasts is when people try to do the entire life and times. I could always come back. So, you know, sometimes people are like they want to keep you on for three hours and do. So you were born in 1970. But yeah, reality, you went right to my sweet spot. Yeah, let's get right to it. Let's get right. We love our housewives.

You watch Bachelor. Let me just ask you real quick. What's your opinion on the state of Bachelor Nation as it stands right now? Well, as far as Bachelor, I think, listen, these are reality TV shows. Okay. We're in a time where there's a lot of serious things going on. There's a lot of movement change, a lot of opinions. But as far as reality TV, when I, and I think the majority of people turn into reality TV,

whether it's The Bachelor, Real Housewives of New York, love and hip-hop. We're not coming there for anything but a good time. It's light television. And in my opinion, the season last year was what it was. I think it was, you know, like all seasons, some episodes are great. Some episodes are not great. You know, I think, you know, with the pandemic, you know, they were obviously limited with the travel. And, you know, I don't want to get in the minutia of Bachelor.

you know, television watching. But, you know, I think the dude, the bachelor dude, what's his name? I can't remember his name. I just know him as the bachelor. Like, it's just the bachelor. Like, you know, Rachel, you broke past that. So you're Rachel Lindsay now who was on the bachelorette.

But, but, you know, so the dude, Matt, I think the whole thing with the race and then the situation that happened with you and Chris, the ending of it. like the ending, the finale, and then the after show, which is normally a great time. You got people talking shit. The old chicks or the old dudes are this and why'd you do this and they're throwing people under the bus.

And you know, you have the iconic moments. Like we did it in the windmill three times. You know, and it's, that's what I come to watch reality TV for. In my opinion, it became like a fucking town hall. And, you know, the bachelor dude, Matt, who from the very beginning of the show was worried. He knew. He knew.

He said at the first episode, he knew he was going to pick a white girl. He was freaking out about it. What if I don't pick the right person? He didn't say it, but he said, what if I don't pick the right person and the scrutiny and this, that,

and the third. And then when he picked the white girl who, you know, happened to have this, what kind of party was it? Antiballum party. An old South party. Now I'm from New York City,

born and raised in New York City. I never heard of a fucking antebellum party until that. I don't know nothing about no antebellum parties and all that stuff. But when the whole season of basically a good time, that's what people tune into the Bachelor,

the Bachelorette, uh, love and hip hop, black ink, whatever the fuck you're into. We're all into some of it. Fucking all of it. I mean, from the highest high end, which I think Bachelor, Bachelorette and Real Housewives are, to the lowest low end, uh,

to, to, the, you know, to Jersey Shore, whatever. All of it. We come in for a good time. And in my opinion, that whole situation, it took away the fun,

you know, like it took away the fun of that season. And the funny thing is, is he's back with the chick now and no one's really talking about it. And, you know, and that's on him. You know, listen, that's on him. And not even in their relationship, but just like, you know, Chris, the host,

You know, he had to go into timeout. You know, the, the Bachelor Matt, you know, picks the white chick, which he was inevitably afraid he was going to pick the white chick because he was afraid he was going to be scrutinized, which happens in interracial relationships, especially with a black man with a white chick, and especially nowadays, and especially with, you know, Twitter, social media and podcasts, which are like assholes. Everybody has one. And for me, as far as that season of the battle,

It was like a bum, pan, because we didn't get that finale. Also, COVID had something to do with it. We didn't get that finale. We didn't get that shit talking. We didn't get, well, you told me this and you told me that, all the stuff that we tune in for for the bachelor and the bachelor. So that's my stake. That's my standing on the show next year.

I'll continue to watch. I love my reality TV show. As far as what I watch on TV, it's sports and reality TV. Those are like my go-to. must watch. Like I don't watch reality TV on delay. Like I don't watch an episode three or four days later. I watch the shit the night of at most 24 hours later.

It doesn't marinate in my DVR. I fucks with all my reality TV. So that's my overall in regards to The Bachelor on last season. And we'll see what happens going forward. And as far as my real housewives of New York, all in. My real house is in New Jersey. my real house is the Potomac.

My real house is a Salt Lake City, Beverly Hills. I rocks with all of it. I do too. So it's interesting that you brought up reality TV and then sports because the same basic premise that you just plotted out for reality TV is that the politics of race or whatever took away some of the fun of The Bachelor. A lot of people have been saying that,

about sports, particularly in the last, I'd say, decade almost now, since athletes have become a lot more socially aware and conscious and active. And since the NFL's controversy surrounding Colin Kaepernate. Right. Do you feel that activism in sports, if you feel that way about activism in reality TV shows, Do you feel like, or talking about these issues in reality TV shows, do you feel like activism and these athletes and sports have taken some of the fun out of that for you as well?

Not for me in terms of fun because for me, sports have always had activism going back to, you know, Jesse Owens, first the Germans, to, you know, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. I'm just going in my lifetime, you know, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar to, you know, everybody's, you know, he has a, everybody has a personal relationship with Muhammad Ali, um, to, um, you know,

the, the, the, the Olympics to, you know, Carlos, I mean, it's,

it's, it's been associated. Even, even there was politics in the, the miracle on ice, a 1980 team, because, you know,

everything that was going on with United States and Russia. You know, it, um, so it doesn't take away the fun for me. Sometimes I will say, I don't like when, when the networks, it seems forced and it seems like, you know,

like sometimes there were, I can't remember the exact weeks, but sometimes during last years, in regard to social justice issues, pandemic, and everything that we were dealing with last football season, sometimes I'm like, yo, I just want to hear fucking Michael Strayhan and Terry Bradshaw talk about the fucking game. It's Sunday. It's fucking 9 a.m. I came in here to find out what you think

motherfucking Tom Brady is going to do this week. You know, and so for me, you know, and we get it all week because we're inundated now. It's not like you just get Terry Bradshaw and Michael Strayhan and Howie Long, whoever the fuck you're into, Randy Moss. You don't just get them Sunday. We get so much sports stuff.

But for me, when it was time for an NFL last year, by game time, I just want to talk about my fantasy. I just want to talk about who we think is going to win, break it down, who's injured. But as far as like when the whistle blows, when the game starts, you know, it doesn't take away from me from it. But I feel like it became so almost like you must talk about it at least this amount of time. You must talk about social justice. You must talk about COVID. you must talk about, you must hit all these check marks before we could talk about football.

And especially last year during the football season, it's like, you know, we're in a motherfucking pandemic. We, we're, you know, inundated all week 24-7 with the shit. Like, I just want the fucking game, the pre-game. For me, some of those times, like I'll say some of those times it found like that. But in general, I think it's important that, you know, people have voices. I think that discussions, you know, should take place. I think there should be acknowledgement.

You know, but we talked about this offline. I mean, I think that the NBA and the big four of sports, Major League Baseball, even you could say NASCAR because they had their whole Bubber Wallace thing, you know, it's really sugar-coated and candy-coded. And I like differentiating opinions. If you're going to really have a discussion, I like differentiating opinions. And because everybody is so handcuffed, scared to articulate an opinion that might be different or, you know, a half opinion that might be different. You know, some of the discussions in regards to sports and the pregames are great.

And some of them are like, yo, let's just get to the fucking game. And, you know, but that's how I feel. But I mean, sports is always going to be, you know, when the game starts, it don't matter. And as far as, you know, for me, you know, growing up in New York, the way I grew up, you know, sports was an incredible, you know, regulator of, of who you are, where you're from, you know, and depending on people, learning about where people are from, how people grow up, you know, and that was a, for me, it was a huge part of my life growing up. And, and the exposure that I got to a different, you know, the way people were living, people were growing up. up via my love of basketball and my friends love of basketball really informs who I am today in so many ways. So I get it, but also, you know, sometimes it's like I just want to see the fucking game. Yeah. Michael, you're, listen, it's no secret. You're known for being, for having takes that, which you would say are keeping it real and honest, but to other people, they find

them offensive or controversial or not empathetic. And I'm curious with all the things that you've garnered attention for saying or writing, tweeting, whatever it may be, is there anything that you've ever said or did that you're regretful over? That's a good question. Yeah, I mean, there's a bunch of them. I mean, there's a bunch of them. You know, I know that, I mean, I'd have to think about, you know, what I was regretful.

what were the ramifications, you know, I mean, could start with the whole, the silliest thing. I've talked about it. I don't want to go down the whole rabbit hole. We could talk about it. But like, you know, just as the more in the silly side, like the whole Kevin Durant thing, I did not imagine that that would take on a four or five day lifespan, especially in today's, you know, news cycle, even pop culture news cycle, where things are 24 hours. Like that spent like, you know, Tuesday, almost a whole week. But, you know, in regards to politics, I don't, I'm very glad that I've, you know, my whole viral ability in regards to social stuff, because, you know, before it would be just more sports, I would talk about hip hop and this album is whack and, you know, you know, LeBron James, this, that shit's all lighthearted. You know, that's not as controversial. I think that's all, you know, you love LeBron James, you hate LeBron James. He's better than Michael Jordan. He's not better than Michael Jordan. The Lakers suck. The Knicks suck. Whatever the fuck.

you know my whole sort of introduction to the world or the world's introduction to me was after charlottesville um i made a rant that went super duper viral and and took on a life of its own and i've made you know 50 of them beforehand talking about other social things for some reason on that day that rant while i was walking my dog um you know that i didn't didn't think about and i don't think, you know, there was IGTV. I think it was only at the time where it was like just 60 seconds. For some reason, that rant went all over the place and, you know, news outlets and all that stuff. And then that was a real, that was probably the first time I, you know, I had something like that where it wasn't just, you know, pop culture related or sports related or housewives related or

something, I just say pop culture. You know, in regards. of the, the thing, you know, there's been tweets that I, you know, I haven't gotten as much trouble. I haven't had any things that I really regret saying when I'm videoing them. Like if I, you know, do, you know, the camera to my face and whether it's Trump this or whatever the fuck, I've had things that have lost nuance that I've, that I've written on Twitter or or, or like, you know, even the stuff that, you know, van reposted, you know, where it's out of context. When I've put my face on wax, which I'm proud about doing,

because a lot of people can tweet this and tweet that and, you know, make everything cookie cutter. My people that I think, I think people respond to my, when those videos, whether they're funny or more serious, the Dick Stain, Donald Trump. and all that whole Trump shit is when they see me do it, it isn't contrived, it isn't perfect, it isn't pre-thought out, well, it's thought out in my head.

It's not pre-written, it's very emotional. It comes off very emotional. And I've never had one. I can't think of one that I think I've ever felt like I didn't express myself in a way that I wanted to express myself. It's the writing of the tweets and the posting of things like, you know, articles that lose nuance and that I would probably say fuck I wish I explained that better I wish I had you know a spell checked it and sort of you know went through it more so that's the

sort of long answer to your question so we're going to get to the i the instagram stuff and the back and forth between you and i and the the narrative of your social media platform in a second but you're saying that you didn't think reposting private messages between you and one of the top five to ten sports stars in the world was going to get any intention like Kevin Durant, Michael. Honestly, You were saying you didn't think that that was I found out of delete. I didn't, you know, I didn't think first of all that day when I posted it, it had been the third time that that kind of, you know, I'm a. a spit in your face a shit had happened

and that day I was working I was dealing with something else and at that moment I mean you know one of the things that people love on my social media is a thing called the shame game where you probably seen it where you know I take people's

DMs I'm gonna fuck you up you end word loving this you do this you fucking whatever you know when they're like threatening and or just very insulting your wife is this and I put them up there and you know we sort of make fun at them and people love it it's when viral people love it it people love it at that moment with

durant he was just a motherfucker in my DMs at that moment he was a motherfucker in my DMs and it was just posted boom and then I'd say about two hours later I was like oh shit but then even so you know the next hour was like oh shit and then it was like we're still talking about this on Friday. So I'm just telling you the honest truth. I didn't premeditate thinking it would turn into a whole thing. Like, like I said, it's just, it wasn't thought out because if I had thought it out, I wouldn't have done it. It was just like, fuck this dude. You're telling me you're going to spit on me on a Tuesday morning. Fuck this dude. Here's the shame game that he loved and he, you know, that's how I wound up meeting him because he was so, he was such a big fan of it. That's the one time I met him

because we did a shame game with him. That's why he wanted to meet me because of the shame game. So I was like, now you're on the fucking shame game. And at that moment, he wasn't Durant, he wasn't a basketball player. He was just a motherfucker in my DMs popping shit.

I mean, I put somebody up there today that was saying, you know, similar shit to him. I think it's hard. I think it's just hard to, I'm not knocking what you're saying about the initial reaction, but I think you too kept it going on your social. and then you podcast about it. So a lot of people that seem like you were trying to capitalize on the moment

and make it a bigger deal. And that's how as a viewer it came across. Well, you know, as far as podcasting, I talk about everything that goes on in my weekly life, whether it's me, you know, drinking not drinking coffee, just like you guys do. You know, it's a sort of an audio diary, you know, and as far as, you know, there's no cap.

Listen, I can tell you this, all those videos that people, you know, thank me for, for the Trump thing, there's been ramifications for that with that. You know, when you talk the way I talk in the language that I talk about the president of the United States, half the country doesn't like that. And half the country likes it. And then half the country that does like it might be like we like it. We like that you're doing it, but we might not want to be able to do business with you.

So that's just how I get down. You know, if I had, if, if, if I'm not. 1994, I knew what I knew now about business and persona and all that stuff. I might have changed things. But I am who I am. I've never, I've never pulled punches. I've never appeared, tried to fake jacks on interviews. I've never appeared or tried to change my New York accent. I've never appeared to try to be diminutive. I've never tried to change my style. I've never tried to, you know, hide. like who I am and I've made it a goal to also be like it's not going to get in the way of my talent as an actor. It's not going to get in in the way of, you know, what I'm cast as. And there's plenty of

people who I respect who I love actors who I know. When I see them on talk shows, I'm like, who are you? Right. Who is this fucking dude? So, you know, there's there's good and bad from it. There's, there's, there's, you know, but there's ramifications of it. I would say this, you know, as far as like, you know, dipping into politics and social stuff, if I knew what I knew now, I probably wouldn't. I'd be like, y'all motherfuckers figure it out. Because, you know, when it's not something you agree with, motherfuckers catch feelings.

I guess all that's true. I guess the last thing I'll say about the Durant thing is, though, is that people did think that you took the time, even though it was such a spur of a moment thing, to remove some of the messages that you had sent to him in the screenshot. It would have been worse. It would have been worse if I kept them all in there. I'll just,

I'll tell you that right now. He would have looked, it would have looked worse. It would have been, but you took out, so you, but you took out messages that you had sent him though. So yeah,

it would have been worse. You sent him messages. Why? How could it have been worse? It would have been worse. I'm just going to, I'm not going to say what was in there, but he would have looked worse.

And to be honest, I would have looked better if I kept those in there. I would have looked better in some people's eyes, you know, if I kept the messages and the responses that I were saying to him when he first told him he was going to spit at me. Okay. So let's get to your social media. It would have been more of what people would have wanted.

Right. Okay. So let's get to your social media platform now. Look, I watch, you and I had a back and forth on social media after you had posted, I think, a story about the killing of a 17-year-old kid in Chicago, I think it was. And you had said, why doesn't the NFL, NBA, NHL, whoever stopped play about this? This was right after, I think, the death of, wow, there's so many. I cannot even remember which one it was now. This was following the death.

Damn, it wasn't Michaela Bryant. What was the one? Yeah, it was. I don't think it was. Oh, was it? I think it was. Yeah, it was after that. Okay, yeah.

So the, and what you'd say was why don't, why doesn't the NBA in an NFL, various sports leagues, uh, shut down or, or, or stop because of this? And that is a continuing narrative on your social media page on your, your, uh, your Instagram. You put things out there about violence in inner cities, be it New York, be it Chicago, be it wherever it is. And then you ask why won't Black Lives Matter anybody march for these things?

And I guess No, I didn't say anything about Black Lives Matter not marching. Well, not about that particular issue, but you have said before why no, forget about Black Lives Matters. Like, why are there no marches? Why are there no whatever for these people who are getting killed?

You've made comparisons and you said, you've made comparisons to that. Like BLM is just a change. at it. Basically, basically, let's start with what, so in the nuance that gets missed is, why is there not even acknowledgement? Well, let's start with, forget, forget a rally, a chant or a hashtag. Why is there not acknowledgement of these? Why is there not acknowledgement from you? Why is there not acknowledgement from the NBA? Why is there not acknowledge, hold on. Why is there not acknowledgement? No, no, no, no. But wait a second. Before we even get to that, forget about

to acknowledge me because that's a conversation that I think a lot of people are willing to have and I think that to be honest with you Michael when you posit that when you say that you're actually out of your depth and I'll tell you why the reason why you are is because there are people on the ground in every single

embattled city all on the ground all of America who are dealing with those things so I know that so my question to you is who are you to tell us the people that are dealing with these things you are telling us. I'm telling you.

I'm not telling you. I'm not telling you. I mean, I'm not telling us. I speak for myself. But you, but when you, but I'm speaking to you and I'm speaking to Rachel. No, no, no. But when you ask that question, though, when you just put it out there on your social media, you're not mentioning me and Rachel or anybody. You're mentioning an entire culture of people in pain.

You're not saying, hey, why doesn't specific person do this? hey, why does a specific person do that? What you're doing is you're chastising a group of people who are dealing with systemic issues and have been dealing with them for hundreds of years. Right. And you're asking us why we won't fix ourselves before we go out and fix the cops

that are blowing our fucking heads off. No, no, no. I think there's something called multitasking. And as far as I'm concerned, I'm talking about acknowledgement. So you want to talk about, like, specifically in terms of the sports leagues, acknowledgement. 400 people got shot this past weekend. At the beginning of this podcast,

somebody will be shot and killed while we're doing this podcast, some will be shot and killed. And by the end of this podcast, another person will be shot and killed. I personally don't give a fuck who does the shooting. I know there's this, this slick thing like, oh, why do white people use this term black on black crime? I don't give a fuck who's doing the killing. I don't give a fuck who's doing the killing. I really don't. Then the question is, if that's the question, if that's the question, then why can't I go to your page and see all different types of examples of white people fucking up, of white people committing violence? There is. White people shooting each other up. I don't see any of them. I said,

I said the most. I don't see any of them. I don't. Look at them. Michael, you show them, but you're not saying why aren't you guys saying something about that. Look at all the, look at the videos with my face. at the videos with my face on wax during the George Floyd after the incident happened, during the riots, during the trial, I don't tweet it out. And also there's three, the big three social media platforms that I use collectively and differently, there's, there's all that shit on there. There's all that shit on there. And also in their stories. and I don't expect you to zip through every single one of my tweets and all that stuff.

But I put my face on wax. I don't tweet. So all these little hashtagsers and actors and actresses and they want to learn and all that. I put my fucking face up there and say what I need to say. And with the George Floyd thing, it was, it was, and I don't do it for acknowledgement. I don't do it for my brownie points. I do it because I'm disgusted by whatever I'm disgusted by. You're missing my point.

You're missing my point. And I need you to soak this up. What I'm talking about this is there's a narrative about black people that exist in America, right? What's a narrative? Well, there are a couple of them, but I'm going to speak to one. One is that we are hyperviolent, that we have no sort of control over ourselves. We don't care about our communities. We don't care about the only time that we care about anything is,

as it relates to white America. I'm telling you right now, your Instagram page supports that narrative. Whenever you, whenever you... Whenever I say, oh, there was a three-year-old shot at a birthday party, that's bad? No, you don't have a fucked up thing. No, but that's basically what you got offended about.

No, no, no. What you're pointing out that there was a three-year-old that's at a birthday party that got shot is not bad at all. But then calling into question people and their response to that and in intimating that they don't care about that. But there's no intimating.

But you do. No, but I'm saying. You ask a question, why don't you care about that? How could anyone not care about that? Because they don't even acknowledge it. It doesn't get acknowledged by, excuse me, it doesn't get acknowledged by the NBA, it doesn't get acknowledged by ESPN,

it doesn't get acknowledged by fucking NFL. It doesn't get acknowledged by any, any place. When a three-year-old gets, excuse me, when a three-year-old gets shot and killed, when a black three-year-old gets shot and killed at their fucking birthday party in Miami, and everything's social justice and social justice. Mike, you know what you can do? If you want to speak to that, why don't you take your huge platform, go into communities all over?

I don't see you putting that out there. What I see you doing. No, no, no, no. I'm talking about social media. No, no, no. We're talking about social media. No, no, no. I'm telling you this.

The reality is that for nine minutes the entire world watch a cop kneel on a guy's neck and execute him. And over and over and over again, black people are watching the police take their lives. It speaks to a deeper systemic dysfunction and to a societal condition. It's a deeper systemic. Let me ask you question. Hold on. Hold on. That black Americans are sick of dealing with.

And we are fighting that problem. There are married problems. problems in our communities for us to fight and we're fighting them all and you don't have the place to tell us what it is that we should be caring about. I'm not telling anybody, I'm talking to you. Then you'll fight some of this stuff. No,

you're talking to all of us. You're talking to all of us and you are out of line, dog. No, I'm not talking. You are absolutely out of line, man. If you think I'm talking to all of us, every single black person, that means you're saying that every single black person agrees with what you say. No, I'm talking about the people that are... There's not differentiating of opinions.

No, no, no, no. I'm talking about the specific groups of people that you say don't care as much about a killing in Miami or Chicago that care about George Floyd. That's a specific group of not just black people, by the way, of white people and all types of people. That was a worldwide expression that happened. Let me tell you something.

If a three-year-old white kid, Jewish kid, Christian kid, if a three-year-old blonde-haired blue-eyed kid got shot and killed at a birthday party in Boca Raton, you bet your fucking ass it would be worldwide fucking news. You bet your fucking ass that it would be front page, front, just like when there's, when three, when a non-black child gets killed,

it'll be front-page news. That's what you're saying. A hundred percent. Mike, Mike. That's what, Mike, but you're grabbing. But Mike. Yeah, I realized what I just said. And so when a three-year-old black,

hold on. Van, because you keep interrupting me. That's my point. And when a three-year-old black kid gets shot and killed at his fucking birthday party in Miami, and when I post it, just me, my little measly fucking post,

people are like, holy shit, I didn't hear about this. Mike. That's not okay. So when I say, I'm just starting with some acknowledgement. Start with some acknowledgement. The only point that you're missing is that you got it off the news. So it was news. So like the,

man, there's four. your things on the news. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait, wait, wait. Wait, you got it off the news. What you are doing and some of these, these posts are very clear. You're saying, hey, why don't you care about this? You're saying, hey, why don't you stop for this?

The reality is that you're talking about two completely different things. You're talking about intra-community violence, which is something that there are a lot of people working on. And by the way, the-the-funkity violence, that you're highlighting on these pages. And the reasons why the police are acting the way they're acting towards black Americans, it's all part of the same system of economic and social oppression. It's part of the same thing.

So what I'm telling you is that, I don't think you're the person qualified to tell us how to fight this battle because you don't have any skin in the battle. I'm not telling you anything. I'm not telling anybody how to do anything. But you are. I'm starting with some acknowledgement. Let's start with acknowledgement.

So because when What are you to tell us what to acknowledge? You don't get to tell us. You don't get to tell me shit. I've been black 41 years. Mike, no, these are all cliches you're talking about. I'm talking about. Acknowledgement from everybody.

Acknowledgement from the news. Acknowledgement from the NBA. Acknowledgement from the Major League Baseball. My, Mike. Acknowledgement from sports. Real calm. All of those institutions you're talking about right now, do they not have things set up with their players

so their players can go back and get back to their communities? What do you know about that? What do you know about- I'm not talking about all that goofy shit building a basketball court. No, it's not good enough for you. See, what you're talking about is what's good enough for you. I'm not talking about building basketball courts

and giving sneakers. Mike Rappaport doesn't get to set the rules on how we move. You say we, like again, you're saying we like you speak for everybody and everybody agrees with Van Latham and that's just not the case. How about this? I know the group that I speak for them. I can't speak for, I can't speak for everybody. No, I know who they are.

Your friends and your, your followers on Instagram? No. Most of them who you don't know? The same people who was in, who I see in your comments, every single time you post like that, saying the exact same thing, tell me I'm lying. Tell me you don't get a, tell me it's not people in there saying that whole, that same shit.

And there's, there's tons of people saying, I'm glad you posted this. I'm glad you said something. I didn't know about this. Mike. Listen, Mike, here's the thing. What you're saying, and this is why,

and this is where Van gets, like, upset. And this is what is upsetting is you telling us what we, as black people, what we should do. That's what you're doing. I'm not telling anybody. Just because you're not using those words, just because you're not using those words, what you're writing,

what you're even saying in this conversation is telling us what we should be doing for our community. And what's similar to what you're telling us is when we hear the other side say, who's anti-Black Lives Matter. They use the same thing, this same rhetoric against us. That's what I want you to see. Do you realize that you're saying the same thing that they're saying, the same thing?

And rather than calling it out, why not be a part of the solution? What the solution? I'm started with bare bones acknowledgement. Mike. Acknowledgement. My acknowledge when it happens. You're chirping at a bunch of, You're chirping at people from the chief seats, bro.

And I'm telling you, I'm right in the front row with my face right here telling you, let's start with some acknowledgement. But how can, Mike, Mike. Let me ask you something, Van. Van, let me ask you a question. Let me just move on to this. How many people do you know that have gotten killed by gun violence? Dozens. How many people do you know that have gotten killed by the police?

One. You personally. One. Okay. So you're saying, you know dozens of people that you know growing up in New Orleans, right? I'm from Baton Rouge. From Baton Rouge. Yeah. You know dozens of people that have gotten shot and killed by gun violence, right? I know a handful of people that I know the same thing. All black people that have unfortunately been shot down by by by by gun violence. So if you ask your followers and your people and your comments, The same question. I bet you most people would have the same answer. But we do not right now in this time where people are listening and people are wanting to improve and people are wanting to learn and everything's a teaching moment and this is a learn moment.

No one's talking about the fact that you know dozens of people that have gotten shot and shot by, they have gotten killed by gun violence. So allow me to retort. All right. So on its face, that seems like a. very, very solid and powerful argument. I'll tell you why it's not. A couple of things.

Over my entire lifetime, the amount of people that I know that have died from gun violence has to do with the conditions of the societies that I grew up in, right? It also has to do with things that are pervasive in those places, right? Those are things that those people that were born into that don't have any control over, right? And they end up picking up bad habits. and adapting criminal lifestyles. And some of these things are accidental and whatever.

The reason why that's an oversimplification of an argument is because what you didn't ask me on top of that was, well, van, how many people do you know that have been handcuffed by cops, have been beat up by cops, have been arrested or in the carceral system? Ben, how many people do you know that have been affected by the over-policing of the neighborhoods in which you grew up in? Had you asked me that question, I would have said thousands, right? I'd have said thousands. I actually probably would have said millions. Because when you talk about the carcoral system that we live in, when we talk about the militarization of the police, the death at the hands of the police ends up being the worst case scenario, which is over sort of represented in the black community. all right but if you talk if you talk about the problem of policing in america the problem of mass incarceration in america the problem of the law and order standard in america and how it's

been uh applied to black people historically and now the damage that has been done to our communities which is all the same thing cannot be quantified because what what you didn't have to ask me and say van okay cool how many people have been killed by the police now man how many your uncle's in jail oh five how many of your homies been to jail and done this and done that van how many times you know what you didn't ask me van how many times have you been arrested zero van how many times have you been handcuffed by the police six van how many times have you been arrested zero van how many times have you been assaulted by the police two then when you were 15 years old were you in your driveway doing your homework right and did you then have the police come

and stand you up and cuff you and put you in a fucking police car because you fit the description when you are a 15 year old kid. Those are things that once again, Mike, you're not qualified to ask these questions. The questions that you're asking are surface level bullshit because you don't understand the experience.

But I'm asking the question. How did you say someone's not qualified to ask a question? I asked a question. Right. Just like you can't ask, you're not qualified to ask questions to Kip Thorne about astrophysics because you don't know the right questions to ask.

I just had a conversation with somebody about Bitcoin because I know nothing about Bitcoin. I'm qualified to ask any fucking question that I don't know. You can ask whatever question that you want. Doesn't mean you're qualified to do it. But you're free to ask whatever you want. If I'm around an NBA player, I ask, I know a lot about basketball, a lot more than the average basketball person.

But when I'm around basketball players, I ask them basketball questions. Am I not qualified because I never played professional basketball? depends on the question. The only bad question is the one you don't ask. But the reality is you're asking me questions about experiences that black people go through. I asked you a question about you.

I didn't ask you about the questions about experience about black people. I said, how many people do you know that have gotten killed by guns? And then you said right after that, if you asked other people that you know, it would be the same thing. So, Mike, I'm not stupid.

What you're doing is taking a sliver of a of a of a of a of a of a of a of a of a of a of a of a of a of a of a time capsule of whatever and then saying hey you guys are concerned about I'm not saying you guys I'm asking you I'm just saying start with some acknowledgement and if people are not you what I can't acknowledge I don't need to acknowledge go ahead my bad I don't mean to interrupt you finish your start finish your thought there needs to be acknowledgement not just by you but by the media there needs to be acknowledgement by people with voices there needs to be But why am I, why am I, uh, uh, when people, if I post something about 400 people being shot

this past weekend and you talk about your followers in the comments, why are people going, Jesus Christ, I didn't know about that. That should be the, when it, when a three year old gets shot at a birthday party, when a seven year old in D.C. gets shot, you know, playing in the streets. And, and this is not, it, we've become. sensitized from it. So when people say, I didn't know about that, I'm saying, why isn't the NBA discussing this? Why isn't the NFL?

Why isn't the NFL? Why isn't it how are we long? Terry Bradshaw talking about this before we watch the game a Sunday morning. And people somehow go, that's racist. Rachel, I don't know what to tell you. Much oxygen. Do you have something you want to add? I'm sorry.

No, I'm just saying, I mean, like I hear what you're saying, Michael, about the acknowledgement, but other than reports. I just, I guess, I guess my thing is, is one, and I think Van might have mentioned this before, there is so much to keep up with. There is so much going on that it's impossible to acknowledge everything that is happening within our community. And then when you talk about acknowledgement, are you only talking on a social media level or on, on television with an announcement? I'm talking about a social media level, because that's how we got to. But then you're taking away from other ways that people are acknowledging it.

Van brought up a very good point. There are people on the ground. The same leagues that you talk about, they're not just building basketball courts and giving out shoes. Now they're not. Now they're doing a little bit more. I used to work for NBA cares. And I can tell you for a fact,

working in community outreach that they did way more than that. So I just think that you're taking, you're, you are generalizing what is actually, being done just because you aren't seeing a social media announcement and that's not fair. Well, we see everything else on social media. That's not true either. Well, I'll tell you the way I'll...

Yes, we do. I'll tell you the way I look at it. I don't pick up a newspaper in the morning anymore. I read it all on social media. So you said earlier you were talking to me on my social media, I don't post any of these videos, right? I post no videos of violence. No videos of violence against black people. No police beatings.

No, I didn't post a George Floyd video. I post none of that. The reason why I don't post any of that stuff is, because there are two things. Number one, black Americans are continuously triggered by these images. They're continuously triggered by these images. Posting that stuff on my social media, right? I don't.

You're not going to pop up your shit and see somebody getting there and pop up on my shit and see somebody getting beat up, continuously triggered by these images. What they're also continuously triggered by is a national, national, almost worldwide narrative that we are inherently hypervivalent, and prone to criminality. What I'm telling you is that by you taking the time

on your social media page to continuously hype and continuously promote negative images of black people, you're harming the community. And it's not just about murder. Well, what's negative? It's not just about murders. It's not just about murders.

I've seen you post fight videos of black people. I've seen you post all of this stuff I don't see you post them I would say most of them I ripped from other black people I'm not talking about them I'm talking about you I know and I'm saying most of them I got from other

other people's accounts I'm not talking about them I'm talking about you because if the shit's funny I'm a post it if the shit's funny around rages I'm a post it and so deal this

we'll post some white people fighting give me some videos I know you can fucking find videos on white people fighting anywhere you want. Give me some videos. No way. I'm not accepting that. You can find videos of white people. There are out of your mind.

Yo, my man, there's videos of white people falling on their face jumping all over. There's so much. All your caring and what you're saying right now. There are so many videos. If you want to have a page go through my page. Go through my page. White people fighting. All the carings, all the, all the

people screaming, all the, all the hits. I put all the hits up there. Mike, there's zero difference between what you're doing on your social media and the white supremacist nonsense that comes from the Fox News silo and all of that shit that they're trying to put out there. Bro, I don't know if... I don't know if you...

I don't know, I've watched it for years. I don't know if you know that. I don't know if you're consciously doing that, but take the help. You need to stop. You got to stop this. So if I see a funny video or an outrageous, video of people fighting because it's black people I shouldn't post it so I saw a video that I saw on your page one time

I'm just asking the question I'm not I'm gonna finish I'm gonna answer it a video also on your page one time was a bunch of black people fighting and you said where are the men in this do you remember that video the where the what you said where are the men in this what was the video the video the video was the black people fighting either at an airport or at a Best Buy and you called out the men in the video and you said that The video had, I, if, oh yeah, where are the men to stop it? Right. Mike, bro, you're, that's a, there's a commentary. Did I say black men?

It's black people in the video. Did I say black men? What are we doing? Why are we, like, you, do you think for a second that you're talking to a dumb nigger? Like, am I, you, do you think I'm stupid? Like, what, like, what are you? What, what, no, it's black people in the video. You're making a commentary about what?

The comment was, where are the men to break up this fight of women fighting? of women fighting in a Walmart. You're making a commentary about black guys. You're bugging. You're fucking. You're bugging. I'm bugging? You're bugging. I'm bugging.

Okay, cool. You're bugging. You're bugging. I don't know. You're talking some bullshit. What? I'm telling you straight up. You're talking some bullshit.

I'm telling you what I witnessed. And I'm telling you, I'm telling you you're bugging. Mike. Did you do? Mike. If they're all black people in a video and you say, where are the men, Nobody's thinking about anybody else but black man. No one's thinking about any of this shit from the video.

Post white people. Did it have a whole page about white on white violence. There's a whole bunch of white shit on my fucking page, man. I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Mike. There's plenty of white shit on my fucking video. Out of your narrative. We don't need your help.

I promise. We got it. I'm not looking for any help. I'm not looking to give help. I promise you. I promise you. You're talking some. social media shit. Mike, you're talking some bullshit.

You're going to be okay. You're talking some bullshit because when it was- I promise you we don't need your help, Mike. I'm not looking to help anybody. Well, then stop. Stop helping because you're hurting because you're hurting. Stop it. Just quit. Let me ask you a question. If you get, I'm not going to name any names, but if you get, I want you to make sure when you get whoever else on, like actors, athletes, comedians that post the same videos. that I post, I want you to be as upset with them black people for posting the exact same videos that I get.

Yeah, but see, here's the thing though. But you see, but you see? No, no, no, no, but I'm going to finish my name. But, but these are conversations that we have with them. We have amongst ourselves. No, no, we have them in fucking public. In private, I'm doing it on your fucking podcast. You should be fucking thinking.

We have, we have it in, fucking, thinking you have it in private. Thank you. What? You what? Mike, thank you for what? I didn't say this. We do. We do have these conversations, right?

When guys like even my man, academics, a guy who I'm cool with, right? When people see him and they talk about the shit that he posts on his page, they pressed him over it. Anybody, we've had the conversations about the world stars. My friend, we've had the conversations about the, oh, the TMZs. And I had those conversations for years and years and years and years. and I'll still fucking have them now. And because I had them. I'm having the conversation.

I don't agree with what you're saying. I think what you're saying is some bullshit. That's fine. And you are entitled to think that. What I am telling you right now, though, what I am telling you is that you should think about the narratives that you perpetuate about black people. You should consider what we have to do,

what we have to go through. You should consider what it is and how it affects people before you portray us in the light that you're doing. You should think about that. I don't portray black. You don't want to do that. I have celebrated. I have acknowledged.

I have big up. You keep interrupting me. I'm on your fucking show. Go for it. Gotcha. You got it. Like you keep interrupting me when I'm on your show. I've acknowledged.

I big up. I, like I don't know what more I can do. Like my whole shit is, is, is, you know, inspired by the way I grew up,

you know, by black culture, by black athletes, by fucking hip hop. Like my whole shit is hip hop. I think that's some of the criticism that people have, though, Michael, is that because you do say exactly what you just said, right? Acknowledge, celebrate.

You talk about your background. People feel like because you say those things, then you also feel- videos in Walmart. No, no, no. Listen, now let me finish the question. Don't post videos of the three-year-old getting shot in Miami. Let's let you all go back and forth.

No, you feel like you have a pass to do certain things. That's how a lot of people feel. Because you say you do these things, it makes this okay. And that's not the case. That's not the case. I don't think there's anything wrong with those things. I don't think there's anything wrong with posting. That's the whole thing, Van has been trying to get you to see.

Like, you're not even trying to see the other side of it. I'm not. I just want to make sure that if and when you guys get somebody on this show that posts the same videos I do, an actor, comedian. We did. Oh, we did. And I went at him.

We had him on. We had him on. And we also just had Fred from Media Takeout. And we talked to him about... I'm not talking about these dudes. I'm talking about, like, legit motherfuckers like myself. How do you know who legit? How are you going to say that Fred from me?

I don't know, Fred. I'm saying, like, academics, he's a blogger. And I respect his whole hustle and all that stuff. But that's what he does. But look, though. But that his, his, his, and that's my guy. right but his his response to that is this is what I cover and this is the reason why I cover it and it's for entertainment value right what you're telling me is that there's a point to what it is that you're doing and when I'm telling no there's no there's no there's no there a Walmart video there's no point in the but you made a fucking point in the but you made a fucking point in the but you're acting like I don't post the same shit of white people my Mike Mike what you said in the caption was where are the men in this?

You did have a point and that was your point. Right. So look, I will tell you this. That's right. I will tell you this though. And keep you need to scroll, you need to, because you're talking about this video. You're like, there's no white people doing crazy shit on your page. Yes, there is.

I hope I'll see more. But so, so all right. And also, whenever you see more and you don't want to post it, just send it to me, I'll post it. I don't, I'm not looking for videos of people acting crazy. That's not what the fucking shit is for. But look. I'm not looking for him either, but when I see him, I post. Right.

And it seems like you see all the black ones. So anyway, we can. No, that's not true. I will speak to one last point, though. I know that you love hip-hop. It's just not true. I know that you love hip-hop. I know that you've been a big part of the hip-hop culture for a long time.

I know that you love basketball, big part of sports culture. I will tell you this, though. I just have a message for every single white dude out there in the 90s that thought, buying a copy or ready to die, gave them an entry ticket into our culture. It fucking didn't. Okay? You're telling that to who?

Didn't. I'm telling you to whoever it fucking applies to. All right? I know. I know. You know what I'm saying? You was at all the fucking Rough Rider shows and the Def Jam shows and you went to all of them.

I was added by that point. I know. I was there. I was there before you was listening to shit. The native tongue family, bro. Before all that shit. The cold crush. You loved them, right?

No, I was there. You loved all of that shit. You was in there. Don't matter. Right. Don't matter. It matters to me. It should.

It should for your entertainment value. That is not an admission ticket into our culture. Never have I said that. Okay. All right. So then don't bring it up. Okay. But you say not an admission ticket.

Right. Like you need an admission ticket. Like there's like some. gate where you get an approval rating or something. What I'm telling you right now is that if we're talking about the entertainment and all of the things that black Americans have given to America, that's for everybody.

But if we're talking about the experience of being black, which is what you're portraying on your page and what you're talking about on your page. You sound crazy, man. That's what it is. If we're talking about that, then you don't have any right to speak on that. You sound crazy. You sound crazy.

You don't. The shit that's on my page makes me, What is it? What did you say? What I said is you're speaking to specific aspects of the black American experience and asking questions that are out of your death. We can agree to disagree though. I don't want to hold you.

I don't want to hold you too much, Mike. I do appreciate you. I do appreciate you coming on the show and sitting down with us and talking. I do not consider you my enemy. But God damn it, if you're not misguided with what you're doing, bro, you really should stop. You're hurting us. You know, you guys say you like to have people. This is another cliche.

We want to have the difficult discussions. We had it. That's what I'm saying. I'm all for it. I'm with it too. Hold on one second. I'm all for it. Yeah.

Doesn't matter. No hate. You're just wrong. And I'll stand on it. And I could just say you're bugging. Right. So you could say I'm wrong and I could say you're fucking bugging. Yeah.

Well, there it is. We'll let the audience decide. But I do appreciate you coming on the podcast. We appreciate you coming on. Because I know you knew this wasn't going to. being an easy conversation. It's the conversation that I mean, shit, this is not, this is like, um, like a bath to me. It's like a shower.

Chowals play to Michael Rappaport. Are you clean now? I'm saying like this is like a walk in the park for me. Oh, I understand. Yeah, it wasn't hard for me even. You're like, this is, this is not anything that like, you must have forgot how I got here. This is, this is fun. And, and because the, the dope thing about the conversation is you didn't ask me anything about how I got here.

No, I don't, I didn't. I didn't because you didn't. But you said earlier that you didn't want to do that whole thing. No, no, I'm just saying, but I'm just saying. But when you come to New York, I'll show you how I got here. I'm with that. I would love to show, I would love to show you how I got here. Right.

We can do a home at home. I'll come up to New York. I would love that shit. And I would love for you to give me a whole Baton Rouge, New Orleans. I would love it. I can't do the New Orleans thing, but I can do the Baton Rouge. I can tell you right now, though, I can tell you right now, hey, no hate, let the audience decide. All right.

Oh, yeah, but make sure you give me some good clips to post. We'll give you whatever. This guy's fucking nuts. We'll give you whatever you want, Mike. Just give me some good ones to post. Whatever you want. All right, my mom. All right.

Bye, Michael. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce, and some very tasty limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango, Yuzu chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious.

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You know what I loved is how it went. up, stayed up, went higher than up. And then it just dropped down. It was like, you're good, you're good,

you'll send me the clips. We out. Take care. I'm not tripping. Look, say what I have to say, you know, like,

I don't know. I mean, there's a certain hubris like white hubris. Let me tell you this. Y'all might not have agreed. We might not have agreed. Didn't get on the same page.

Wasn't the, couldn't, couldn't understand one side couldn't understand the other. However, the next time he posts, he will always think about you in this conversation. Without a doubt. Have to. He won't stop, but he'll think about this moment. And anybody else who's on that same tip will think about this too that's listening.

Yeah, that's true. Look, we're not going to do mailback, all right, because it's been too long, but we are going to do you guys a big, big favor. Rather than do our signature outro, because I know you guys love it so much, we're going to end the show with the mailback song. Just to kind of sue you guys. They didn't ask for that. They did. They wanted.

They wanted. They want that mailback songs. What they want. Play the mailback song. We out. Mailback time. Time to read your letters. And then we'll reply to them.

Oh, it's mailback time. Write us with your queries and we'll chime in.