Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Disrespecting Kamala and Annemarie Wiley on ‘RHOBH’ and Politics

Episode Date: October 22, 2024

Van and Rachel react to Trump’s comments about Arnold Palmer’s meat size and the overall state of the race (6:14) before digging into ex-Steeler Le’Veon Bell’s “Trump and the Tramp” T-shirt (12:07). Then Game 5 of the WNBA Finals ends in controversy (19:30), and should we care that fans cheered when Deshaun Watson tore his Achilles (29:43)? Then, TV personality Annemarie Wiley joins to talk the labeling of women (48:47), her time on ‘Real Housewives of Beverly Hills,’ (1:05:41), and where she stands on the 2024 election (1:28:03) Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guests: Annemarie Wiley Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Our learning is on and is I Van Lathan Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lynn, Lindsay. Rachel, you want to say hi there? No, I don't. It was bad enough via Zoom. Now I have to see in a person.

You know, I never even noticed that thing was sitting over there. The people don't like it. Who don't like it? The people, the thought warriors. How do you know they don't like it? Because I know. They don't like who, nanny? They're concerned.

How are they concerned? What are you talking about? About you. They're concerned. And that's exactly what I'm talking about. What? That's what I'm talking about. You having full-on conversations with that green owl.

And to be honest, not that I want to play into this, but you had that thing talking bad about me, so why would I be okay with this sitting here? He wasn't talking about it. He wasn't talking about it. He was being honest. Well, what did he say? He was being honest.

If it wasn't bad and it was honest, what did he say? your reaction, how you feel about animals and different things like that. Like, we haven't, you are, you're kind of like a Republican with animals. Stop, I have two animals. You like your animals. No, I love Bozeman.

Don't you dare do that. But that's one of your animals technically, right? No, it's not. Republicans like their niggas. Right, you like your animals, but Mountain Lion, Hoot Nanny, other animals that we've tried to get you on. things.

Like, you don't like them. Let's keep going. What you do this weekend? Watch Texas lose. Donnie. Donnie, let's just put up some pictures of the aftermath of the biggest game in Texas history or whatever. It's not the biggest game in Texas history. It's not the biggest game in Texas history, but it was big game.

And by the way, I don't get on people's teams when they lose, but Texas got fucking thumped. And I need an explanation. Rachel, as to what fucking went on in this game. I need an explanation as to how Georgia came through there. It was like the fucking Alamo. God damn. Wow, the Alamo? Come on, come on.

Relax. You see Davy Crockett like this with the hole in the Alamo. It's like the Alamo. Here's the thing. It was tough. I know it was. And I was there. I was on the field.

I saw Glenn Powell there. We were with Glenn. Happy birthday to Glenn Powell. Happy birthday, Glenn Powell. Don't go back to no more games. You fucking jinxed the team. I saw Glenn Powell. Did you go to school the same time as Glenn Powell?

No, I'm a little older than Glenn. Okay, so like I saw Glenn Powell there. I saw, what is it? What was the guy? The fucking white boy. From Texas, the fucking white boy. They're fucking Matthew McConaughey. Oh, Matthew McConaughey.

I saw him. Everybody was there. Anthony Ramos was with us. Who else was there? Kevin All the sons were there Bradley Bill Kevin Schoble

Devin Booker Kevin Durant Oh Kevin Durant Oh yeah yeah yeah Like a lot of alum It was I've been on the sidelines before for Texas games There were too many people out there

So to see No it was very Hollywood I mean players are Right where I am with you So just imagine it's like You got Texas legends Like Ricky Williams was there Vince, T.J. Ford. You got Kevin coming back. You got the sons there. You've got Glenn. You've got Matthew. You've got an Anthony Romance. All these people, it was extremely Hollywood. And you're trying to focus on a game. I don't think that that contributed to it. I mean, Sabin was preview in the game before. And he talked about the defense. And he was saying, he was like, I'm not saying they don't have a great defense. I'm just concerned as what this defense.

defense could do. Quarterback was coming in off of his best game this year against Mississippi State. And so I definitely don't think we underestimated them. It just, we just weren't ready for it. And then bringing in an arch and then pulling them out. There's a lot of people who are talking about that. Like that wasn't a good move mid-game. Sadly, and maybe to my own protection, I didn't see a lot of it because so much was going on. Like, I mean, it was a reunion for me. It was a reunion for me. It was a reunion.

I mean, like, people I just adore, I got to see. Guys, this is what I'm talking about. Is it almost 20 years? This is what I be talking about. So Rachel went, Rachel had field passes to the game. So Rachel went. Rachel loves, quote unquote, loves college football. I do.

Right. She quoted unquote loves college football. But I love my friends more. to the game, have field passes to the game, and didn't watch the game. That's not true. You just said you didn't even watch the game. I didn't get to see, but I'm commenting on things that I did see. And I kept saying that.

I was annoyed. Like, Glenn and I were like, we really didn't get to see a lot of the game. Wait a not. Because, okay. As Texas fans, we were, I, he couldn't walk five feet without people, like, just, like, bombarding him. Right. But I was distracted by seeing old alum.

that I was, like, there were friends in school that I was just hadn't seen forever. And I was just over the top, excited about seeing people from back in the day. It was, I was distracted by a lot. I had a blast. That's great. It's the most important thing.

It's a blast. Plus, it's 12-team playoff. It's one loss. We'll see how Texas responds. It was a big game. People worried about Vanderbilt next week. It's like this coming up week. They need to respond and come back and, like, dominate.

But, you know, it's college football. Things happen. It's a wacky season, wacky season. but Texas is not out of it by any means. Did you know about one and three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away.

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Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See terms at Fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash herms. Okay, you guys, we have a big show. Wiley is joining us today. She was here in person. A lot of conversations, little politics, a little everything,

a little, a lot of politics. A lot of politics. We get to it. We do. We get to it. Talk a lot of a lot of stuff with her. But we got to get into the show right now, and we got to start with an electoral check-in. Trump talked about the size of Arnold Palmer's dick. Donnie, run the audio. But Arnold Palmer was all man.

And I say that. all due respect to women and I love women. But this guy, this guy, this is a guy that was all man. His man was strong and tough. And I refused to say it. But when he took showers with the other pros, they came out of there, they said, oh, my God, that's unbelievable. I had to say it. So look, whatever. Why, like, is this a, if you guys don't know, Arnold Palmer is a legendary golfer. He's actually the catalyst behind the delicious drink,

Arnold Palmer, which is half sweet tea, half lemonade, which they've changed the name at Chick-fil-A. It's no longer Arnold Palmer. It's called something else. I don't know what it's called. It's odd, right? It's weird. The race continues to tighten,

and Trump continues to veer more, off into the land of the mental abyss? It doesn't even matter anymore. It's not even odd. It's actually becoming in line with just all the off things that he said. It's like that's Trump. If he actually didn't talk like this at rallies, I would say, something's wrong. Yeah.

What's happened to Trump? I expect this. Yes, it's funny, but it's in line with how he's. he's been. I can't even say he's getting any wackier. I think the odd thing to me, and I've been on the road for two weeks, and I'm so happy to be home. I've been having a lot of conversations with people, particularly people who are conservative or who don't know who they're voting for, which I just don't know how you're there at this point. Well, Emery Wiley, I guess, and Emery Wally. Exactly. And I'd say the same thing I don't know how you're there at this point, this close to the election. Yeah. It is wild to me that

people don't believe Trump. And that's the general consensus for people that I'm talking to that are either undecided or will vote because they're going to vote with their party, Republican, whether they really like Trump or not. They don't believe him. They don't take anything that he's saying is serious. I even had one person say to me, but like, Project 2025 is never going to happen. Like, Trump's not serious. And that's the thing. He keeps saying all these out. outrageous things, but people have just said, that's just Trump. He's just joking. He's just being funny. He's just being silly. And no one is taking it to heart or actually believes that he is going to implement the things that are within Project 25 or that he's the things that he said as he's been

campaigning for this election. They don't think it's going to happen. It's even as if they're ignoring all the people who were with him during his 2016 and to 20 time, that administration, who have left him and have. said all the things that he has wanted to do, that he tried to do, that they stopped him from doing, and have since completely disassociated themselves with him because they know the monster that he was behind closed doors. They know the things that they tried to not get him to do. And we're successful, obviously, for the most part. But he has these thoughts and these ideas that he wants to do. I fear now he has surrounded himself with people who would allow him to do some of the things that he's saying.

And for some reason, there just seems to be so many people out there that I've talked to who don't, who have chosen to ignore who Trump is. Yeah. So Trump's going to make good on his promises this time. He's going to make good on his promises this time. He will be a president that doesn't have to think about re-election. And so the people that have empowered Donald Trump, particularly these big tech guys that are now moving towards. Donald Trump, they are going to want to see him make good on some of the things that he's talking about. And also, this election not only is not a referendum on the MAGA movement right now,

Trump's performance over the next four years will be a referendum on the future of the MAGA movement. And there are a lot of people who have their political futures tied to what happens. I think that everybody should take Donald Trump seriously about the things that he says that he wants to do. Yeah. And take a look at the changing landscape of America. Any of your friends that have said that, I don't see how they could say that now, with the Dobbs decision and a couple of other very, very concrete things that the Supreme Court has done that essentially is empowered by the justices that were appointed by Donald Trump. There has been and continues to be actual real world ramifications for a Donald Trump presidency. And, you know, when you talk about economic policy, you're talking about foreign policy,

Donald Trump is going to do his best to make good on some of the promises that he's made on the campaign trail. If he were to win the race, which is a toss up right now, it would put everyone who is against those policies and against that devolving of America. It will put them in a fighting capacity. We'd all have to fight against it. We have to have our elected officials fight. fight and we'd have to organize and we'd have to fight. But if we lay down and we don't get involved, all of that stuff certainly will happen

or as much as he can get accomplished. So it'd be stupid not to take him at his work. Donald Trump had a rally and two former Steelers were there. I want to talk about this as a black man. Come on. Two former Steelers. Antonio Brown and Levion Bell endorsed Trump at a rally. Let's hear a little bit from

Antonio Brown as he endorsed Trump with a speech at a rally in Pennsylvania. But before I get too deep in my speech, I want to say, I know the media is going to call me crazy, me and Trump crazy for having me speaking here, but I want to make this clear.

We are not. They are. You know, Kamala Harris and Tim Watts, do you really know they want to put tampons in the boys' bathroom? Is that crazy? That's really interesting. insane, right?

And by the way, Tempon, Tim Woss, he isn't a real football coach. He could never guard me. Okay. So, I couldn't care less about who one individual person is voting for.

Okay. Trump was there. Levi-on, excuse me. Brown was there. Levy on Bell was there. Levi-on Bell. Bell. Lavee on Bell. Lovion Bell, who was a fantastic running back

for the Pittsburgh Steelers, like when he was playing. Like a really interesting running styles. He had a shirt and the shirt said Trump and the tramp was on the shirt. All right, so I'm compounding this with something else. Lord Jamar of brand newbie in fame,

a very important hip-hop group, made a comment about Kamala Harris and I since apologize for that comment. He was on a podcast and he called her a bitch. Okay. So Lord Jamar did apologize.

Markle-Mahill called him out for it. I guess he thought twice about it. He did apologize. So we have bitch and we have Trent. There are black women who are conservatives. And we, talked about them on this podcast before.

Even if I disagree with a black woman politically, never would I call her out of her name? Disrespect her. And I have to be honest. When I heard what President Obama said, I was very critical of what President Obama said. You were. Because I felt like he was lecturing black men.

It would be critical of me, not to look at people insulting Kamala Harris, calling her a bitch and calling her a tramp and not address the fact that using terms like that to describe black women in a lot of circles has been normalized and culturally sometimes in certain circles encouraged, and so that there are certain black men who don't feel any type of quickening or hesitation

to use that term to a black woman. However, when looking at white men, which now Trump certainly is, they know that there are consequences for being disrespectful to them, and their consequences for not going along with them. So I'm going to be honest with you. Voting for Donald Trump is one thing.

You have a difference in political belief that's your thing. But calling her a bitch or a tramp in order to gain proximity to Donald Trump and his movement, that is a slave mentality. And I don't care what anyone says. It is. If you're willing to call black women, bitches, hoes, and tramps, just so you can look good and get the white man sunlight on you, that comes from a very specific slave mentality of you trying to cozy up to authority.

We can have conversations about differences of opinion, whether or not you like Trump on some of this stuff, why you like Trump, why you like the Republicans, why you want to vote for them, that's fine. But when you lose the basic respect that you're supposed to have with women who look like you and when you do it to get closer to a white man and be accepted in his realm, in his fear, his fear in whatever, to me, you're exhibiting a slave mentality and a deep self-hatred that I think goes beyond a political country. conversation. I agree 100% with what you said. And it kind of goes to some of the things that I said

when I was talking about what former President Obama had to say in regards to black men. I said some of the feelings that they have in wanting to find reasons or reaching for reasons to be so against Kamala Harris is because of a deep-rooted feeling they have towards women and particularly black women. And when you take what Lord Jamar said and you take what the t-shirt that Levy on Bell had on, it also goes to speaking to that. For you to even put on an outfit that's going to say that,

that is going to be so disparaging towards black women and not care and proudly portray yourself in that way to the world shows how you think about black women. You think about them almost as if you have no regard for them that you're willing to do something like that or call them out of their name. So flippantly, with such ease.

Yes, Lord Jamar apologize. But why do we even have to go there in the first place? You can disagree with Kamala Harris. You cannot agree with her policy. You cannot want to vote for her. But why do you resort to that and why is it so easy for you to do it? Something that's deeply within them.

That's all I'll say. Them. Them. Who are the them? A man who would fix, a man who would do the things that these two did. I'm just joking. You're right. No, you can't.

Do better. Political disagreements, what they are. Just try to maintain some sort of respect for black ladies. We're never going to do it perfectly. And sometimes people fuck up. But at the same time, calling her a tramp, calling her a bitch, all of that stuff, we should be able to expect more. Yep, yep, yep.

Unless you don't care. If you don't care, you don't fucking care. Probably be like, fucking, I don't. care. But I couldn't care less who those guys are voting for. They can vote for where they want. I think it's wrong. But I think the insults and stuff are different. W&BA finals were last night. Yeah. Game, the ending of the game was a shit show. Donnie, did you see it? I did not. Donnie, you don't care about women's sports. I was traveling. I was traveling to be here. Do you, you, you're, Donnie is here in studio and so is Ashley. We should say,

Donnie, the plane that you traveled on, did it have a TV set? I knew he was going to see that. You know what? I am not as big a fan of the WMBA right now because my city doesn't have a team. I was a fan when the Detroit Shock were dominating the league. But since then, since they moved to Oklahoma and now they think they don't exist at all, my interest is like super, super casual.

Okay. So it's the easier way to say that is that Donnie doesn't care. Donnie doesn't care. All right. So, I mean, well, I mean, we did the whole back and forth to him and the home, but Donnie doesn't give a shit. Like, Donnie could have watched it. You just remain silent.

You just didn't watch. Donnie didn't watch it. Donnie doesn't give a fuck about it. He doesn't care. He wants the women to continue to eat cat food on the road and travel by Greyhound Bus wherever they go. But there was a 67-662 win by Minnesota, which was fucking bullshit.

I'm sorry. It was horse fucking shit. Wow. It was if I'm... The whole game or the end of the game? Because there's an argument to be made there. You mad at how the whole game? was or just the end?

Would you like to hear the free throw disparity? Go ahead. 25 to 8. What was the 25 to 8? Did anybody foul out? A 25 to 8 free throw disparity in a deciding game.

Did anybody foul out? In a game 5 with everything on the line. Brianna Stewart. I'll look it up. Stewie. Fucking travel. She did travel though. She did travel, though.

travel. And then they called a touch file. She traveled and then they called a touch file, right? Sabrina was one of like a million. The Liberty played the worst game seven performance for a winning team that I've ever seen. Why do you keep saying game seven? It's a deciding game. I'm sorry. The worst game five performance I've ever seen from a winning team, they play like shit. They still won because the refs were in. the bag for the goddamn liberty. I'm sorry. The refs were in the fucking who nanny knows. The refs were in the bag for the goddamn liberty. It was terrible. Two fucking calls. They get the game to overtime. I will say to all the Minnesota fans out there griping, you had overtime to be able to win the game. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. So you don't think that this was bullshit. I mean, you had over, to your point, you had overtime to win the game. I'm looking at

personal fouls, one player did foul out. She's handsy. Collier's handsy. Call her, is she a baller? I didn't say she wasn't. But she is. So their top score fouled out in the game. For the Minnesota Links, by the way.

I agree with you. That's why I said to the end of the game, what, you're talking about the end of the game, you're talking about the whole game. They scored two points in overtime. Liberty scored seven. Refs weren't helping the liberty shoot and score games. I mean, score points to win the game.

They didn't do that. You know, having played basketball, it doesn't come down to one thing, which is why I was asking you was this thing throughout the whole game, or did it come down to the end? You can complain. Head coach for the links was very upset. She says it comes down to this play. I think what has people so upset is the call happens.

It was marginal contact. Like, you don't make those. type of calls at the end of the game. With no call on the travel. You don't, yeah, well, I'm going to get that part. You don't make those type of calls at the end of the game, right? You let them play. It's going to get handsy.

It's going to get, they're going to be pushing. It just happens. What makes it worse, to your point, is that the play was challenged. They go review it. The foul was challenged. They review it. And in their review, you can clearly see that Brianna Stewart traveled. in their review, but I don't know if that was something that they could.

Exactly. I don't know if they could overturn that. They're looking at the file. They're looking at the file. They're looking at the foul. I don't know if they can't say she traveled. I don't know if they can't. That, I can't think of the player for the links, was in front of Brianna Stewart.

Legal guarding position. Two feet on the ground. Hands up in the air. This was not illegal contact, in my opinion. This was our illegal guarding position. This was not what this is. It should have been overturned. What?

Basketball Jones over here Unlike Donnie, I appreciate the game This is not that And to me, I can understand why people are upset They had a chance to redeem themselves in overtime They didn't. It scored two points. They scored two points. But this games don't come down to one call.

Justice for the links. Games don't come down to one call. Yes, they do. Fucking NFC championship game, Saints versus Rams, okay, we're about to win the fucking game is over. Drew Breeze, swing pass. The fucking receiver is tackled by the Rams defensive player.

No pass interference. It can come down to one game. It's one play. It sometimes does come down to one play. And that one fucking. play can cost you to Super Bowl. Okay? It comes down to one play, but it's not why they lost the game.

We're going to win. Well, you should have done something earlier in the game. We're going to a touchdown, a field goal, an interception, some defensive stop. That's why Texas can't block. How about that? That didn't come down to one play. That's why Texas can't block. They fucked us, and they fucked the links.

I am on the side of any team that has ever gotten fucked over by the refs. It didn't come down to one play. What? Why is Rachel there? Oh, let me see. Look at people. Look how. Why is she there?

What's Rachel Lindsay doing there? I went to Texas. I have other friends. Please. Like, what's Rachel Lindsay doing there? People, why can't you hang out with Glenn Powell? Why can't our, why isn't Glenn Powell come on the podcast?

Is that supposed to be your niggas? Oh, I actually think that we'll do that because they have a show coming out. That nigger ain't coming on the podcast. podcast. Okay, fine. They have a show coming out that has to do with football. Chad Powers. Yeah, Chad Powers. Yeah. And shout to Adam, producer, Listen to Star Show. Who is Adam? A producer on the... Adam who? I can't...

Say his name or keep it on the playground. Okay, relax. Is a fan of the podcast. Okay. And I was saying that they should, when they start doing their promotions for it, come on the podcast and do the show. Boy, Glenn Powell got to come on this podcast. He got questions answer. Glenn Powell got a lot of questions.

Okay, maybe you shouldn't come on. Tell Glenn, no, we need Glenn Powell. Glenn Powell got questions to answer, man. You know what I'm saying? Get Glenn Powell on the podcast. I fuck with Glenn Powell. Glenn Powell is, how can you not rule for him? I'm serious.

He's like, how can you not rule for him? I guess my question for Glenn Powell would be like, Glenn, how are you going to fuck up? Because he hasn't fucked up. Don't put that on him. Don't manifest that. It's coming. So every white person,

messes up because you're putting it towards race. So every white person is doomed to mess up when it comes to black people. In some way, Glenn Powell will fuck up. It's just, it's coming. Like, the fuck up is coming. It's not going to be, I don't think it's going to be a big fuck up for him. But it's like, it's going to be something.

Like, he's going to be somewhere. Don't put that on him. He's going to be doing something good. Don't do that. And then he's not going to know who somebody is. Well, Brie Gavon, it's great. That's my question for him. He's a great guy.

I know you do. I know you think. I know you. I know you. Like everything I've heard, but like, I just want to help him for when to fuck up. How he? It'll put that on him.

It will. He'll probably fuck up with you. You'll probably, he'll probably have something. He'll tell you to touch your hair or something like that. No. No. That those things would have already happen.

I'll fuck with Glenpa. If they were going to and they haven't. Look, I got to say something, man. You know, everybody got white friends, man. You might as well get ready for them to fuck up because they will. Which friends of yours are you still waiting to fuck up, your white friends? Oh, a lot of mine already have, baby. Who are you waiting on?

But who are you waiting on? Who hasn't that you're waiting on? Tommy Alter. I knew you were going to say Tommy. Because I was going to say, has Tommy messed up yet? I'm waiting for Tommy Alter to fuck up. Tommy Alton has. Tommy been in this for a while.

Tommy got around for a while. Tommy has not fucked up. Tommy Alter has not fucked up yet. But I feel like it's coming. But the thing with Tommy is Tommy didn't put so many black people in position. Like Tommy going to fuck up and everybody's going to be like, like, man, it's got something to say about Tommy all the fucking up. It's wrong.

Because that's what niggas do. Tommy's not going to mess up. That's what niggas do when they white people fuck up. Of course. When other white people fuck up, oh my God, we got a march when they white people fuck up. is it wrong. But. But.

But. You know what I'm saying? I love Tommy. DeShone Watson. Yeah. I just got news for people. You know, shout out to James Winston and to Miles Garrett. And this is tough to say.

But I have to say it. Nobody has to give a fuck about Deshawn Watson. you don't have to give a fuck. The Sean Watson came on to the scene as a quarterback that was a nice guy that everyone wanted to succeed. He was great on the field. He was seemingly great off the field.

Okay. Sean Watson had dozens and dozens of sexual misconduct claims and those sexual misconduct claims. 20 of them were settled. There were many of them. that were out there, he settled 20 of them.

With that type of smoke around you, no one has to give a fuck about you. Now, if people decide that they want to give a fuck about Deshawn Watson, his teammates, people that he knows in his personal life, people that he works with, people that he has proximity to,

if they decide they want to give a fuck about, I'm not about to jump in and tell you who you can and who you cannot give a fuck about. But to James and to Miles and to the rest of those, those guys, whether it be because of his play on the field, which he has been terrible since he's been with Cleveland, or because of the absolutely disgusting guys and scary allegations

surrounded Deshaun Watson. You guys cannot fucking lecture anybody about whether or not they don't give a fuck about Deshaun Watson. You can't lecture anyone about that. He has past the lecture circuit. He can't. You don't have to care. He was hurt and people booed when he was getting carted off the field. That's what we're talking about.

Right. And his teammates, both Miles Garrett and James Winston, sort of lectured people over the way they reacted to Deshawn Watson's injury. Right. I agree with you that nobody has to take, like,

what Miles Garrett and James Winston did, it was a bit much considering the allegations that have, not a bit much, it was a lot, considered, considering the allegations that have been out there for a while about Deshawn Watson. And we've talked about it at great lengths on this podcast, on multiple podcasts. I'm not okay with people booing somebody who's injured. I'm just not. It doesn't, and I am not taking up for him. I've had very strong opinions about the way the contract that was given to Deshawn Watson to go to Cleveland in the middle of these allegations coming out. I've been very vocal about him having a quarterback job and,

and, you know, being a proponent for the victims. But I don't agree with booing somebody when they're injured. I just think that that's just a different level of nastiness. I'm not going to relish into Sean Watson tearing his Achilles Hill because of what he did. I'm just not. I don't even will fuck about him tearing his acutis. See, I'm not, I don't think he ever should have been in a position to tear it because I don't think he ever should have gotten, received that job. And he definitely shouldn't have received that contract. But I'm, but I'm not going to see somebody go down and boo and cheer. And I'm not, I'm just not.

That's just not me. I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't do that. But I don't, I don't. I never found, I never find myself relishing in somebody's misfortune. I don't. But I'll tell you this. I find myself like not giving a fuck.

The reality is. this. I happen to believe, based upon all of this stuff, you guys, I'm not in any way getting on a moral high horse. I'm not. I'm not in any way getting on a moral high horse at all. I'm not trying to make it seem like that I'm not casting myself better. But I

actually think that Deshawn Watson nutted on massage ladies without their consent and fucked them up. I can't care whether or not he fucking, like, I'm not wishing for that to happen to him, but if it happens to him, he lost the care.

He lost the care. Yeah. The care is there. The care is there by default to me. But you can lose the care. Like right now, if Hulk Hogan is in the ring fucking wrestling and Hulk Hogan tears down and cracks his kneecap, if Hulk Hogan would have never said that he didn't want his daughter to fuck niggas.

what you doing? If Hulk Hogan would have never said that I'd have been like God damn that's so fucked up it happened to the legend the great Hoke Hogan now I'm not wishing that that happens to Hoke Hogan

but if it happens fuck them I don't care I don't care about DeShan but it's like the boo stop betting that out I needed help from who name

what do you think you are Stop betting that out. You care that they did it. I was like, wow. Y'all just going to boo this man. I mean, do you think his career's over? Yeah. I mean, I don't believe it.

He's already coming off one injury. I have to look at the contract in terms of, like, I mean, his career could be over, but, like, they owe him a lot of money. They owe him a lot of money. I just can't see him starting for anybody else's team. Like, if they owe him a shit to the money. I know. No, I know. Because remember, it was record-breaking when he.

got that. In the middle of the allegations, he got a record-breaking deal. One last thing to get to before we get to our interview with Anna Marie, Anna Marie, Anna Marie-Wiley. Good job. Donnie,

play this audio for me real quick. Sorry, which audio, what you're talking about? God damn it, Donnie. Leave that in the podcast. It's the last thing on the thing. Donnie? Oh, cool. Thank you. He doesn't care. He doesn't care about the criticism at all. Donnie is even killed. Go ahead. Go ahead. Play the last thing right there.

He really is. I'm not sure who needs to hear this, but it is now illegal to go through your husband's phone. It is now illegal to go through your husband's phone. And this is for every ear that can hear me. This is not just a Texas issue. This is also a federal crime. The Federal Wiretap Act states, it is unlawful to intercept any wire, oral, or electronic communication. It is also unlawful to disclose the contents of the wire, oral, or electronic communication. Y'all know what's considered electronic communication? Text messages, emails, DMs. And it doesn't matter if you're in a community property state saying that the phone,

this community property will not work. Even if your husband willingly gave you his password, it still would not work. Okay, so I'll look this up and this looks to be true. That it's illegal to snoop through somebody's phone here in California. And it's a federal offense to look through. somebody's phone without their permission, violation of their privacy laws under laws like the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, which she just talked about, wiretapping laws, and there's state variations on this, too.

Rachel, what's your thoughts on this? It's illegal to look through somebody's phone. The question is, if somebody does look through your phone and they find stuff, how much nuts would it take for you to call the police on them? I don't think that it's, like, I'm looking at this right now, right? Okay. Like, yeah, it's a federal law. So, like, one of the exceptions is it's not unlawful if the person is a party to the communication, right?

So, like, let's just say I go through your phone and you sent me something and I take it. It's not unlawful if the person or one of the parties to the communication has given prior consent. Okay. So, like, let's just say, like, I think it's, I mean. Are you saying that there's loopholes to where like you could say, hey, could I look through your phone to find this order Uber and then you have access to the phone?

Well, because I think in that clip, I don't know if I just heard it or I saw a longer clip where they're like, even if they've given you the code or something like that, like that doesn't count. But I was looking this up too and I feel like it's more of not just going through the phone, it's more of the act of I go through your phone and then I post it.

I go through your phone and then I share it with other people. people. I go through your phone. Even though the first one does say that. Rachel, do you have a problem with somebody going through a significant other's phone? Do you think it should be illegal? Yes. Okay. I don't know if it should be illegal, but I definitely am not a proponent of it. By the time you decide to go through somebody's phone, that's the problem. Yeah. If you need to go through somebody's phone, there are. already issues in your relationship.

Should it be illegal, though? I think it should be illegal if they take it and use it, like, post it without your consent. If they're sharing it with other people, like to me, that's, you know, it's a class, it's like a classy misdemeanor. You know, like equivalent to like a speeding ticket. Right, right. But you do it to me, I'm calling the cops.

Right. Now that I know. Yeah. Now, you get them called. It's illegal. You get fucked up. All right, you guys, we got to go. Interview with Anna Marie Wiley to take us out.

It's a robust interview. It's a long interview. So you guys buckle in. It's good stuff. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need weather tech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner or road trip goes sideways.

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Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimphaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimfaya, including important safety information. Okay. You guys, special guests in the building. In person, she came to hire learning. Anne-Marie Wiley. Anna, Van.

Is Anna? Come on, Van. It says Ann. Van. Okay. It is spelled Anne-Marie. It's pronounced Anna-Marie. It's a Dutch name.

Man, how long have we known each other for? We have, but I've already written, but let me tell you something else. Let me tell you something else. Let me tell you why that's possible. Okay. Go ahead and justify. I'm not justifying. Uh-huh.

That's possible because your sales wife and I wouldn't call you by your first name. That's true. You guys just say sis. I would say sis or I would say sales wife. Yeah. Because you get a little familiar with your homeboy. Like I don't, like when I talk to Ryan's wife and stuff like, I don't know, like, Kita, Kita, Kita is what's familiar. I get that.

You're familiar. It's always either sis, AM. I got a lot of AM. People say AM. AM. You're Dutch. I'm Dutch. Dutch and Nigerian.

Wow. Yeah. You know the story? The story of what? The story of Anna Marie. The story of Anna Marie. I don't. I don't know.

But I do know it's interesting that Dutch and Nigerian, that's an interesting combination because that's both the slave catchers and the is like, you know what I? It is. You are correct on that. That's modern fucking. human making right there, but what's the story, though? So, and you know, it's funny that you actually brought that up because let me get your thoughts after you hear the story. So I was conceived, yes, by a Nigerian father, a Dutch mother.

They put me up for adoption when I was born. This is in Edmonton, Canada. Jesus. Okay? And then I was adopted at two weeks old by a Dutch Indonesian family from Papua, New Guinea. Okay? and grew up in a very small farm town in Canada. What's the town?

It's called Abbotsford. It's about an hour and a half outside of Vancouver. It's a bit. It's about, yes. Abbotsford. As you literally, as you drive down the highway into Abbotsford, it starts to smell like manure. Like, ask Marcells about it, legit. So, but, yeah, so this is 1982.

So, and I've never met my biological parents. I don't really, I don't know the story of how I was conceived or anything like that, But, you know, one could say that maybe that wasn't, you know, something that was looked, you know, favorably upon at that time since you just brought up, you know, those two sides. Or maybe they were like, we can make this right. Yes. So maybe your dad, look, because that's a cold line, right? Maybe your dad looks at your mom and goes, historically, there hasn't been a lot that we have to celebrate. Maybe we celebrate tonight.

And then beautiful Anna Marie. Oh my God, I love you, Van. Beautiful Anna Marie is born. Oh, my God, I love you, Van. If your dad said that, he would be like the worst nigger in the world if you would have said that. Just let you know it's a joke. But, okay, so then how, like, your whole story, then, like, how do you get to... So, how do I get here?

Yes. So my parents got divorced when I was 10, and my mother raised me and my two sisters on her own. You know, very humble beginnings, single mother. she worked at the post office. And so I played sports since five years old. That was my vehicle to go to college. I played high school basketball, college basketball, earned my nursing degree from, you know, like I said, playing. And then six months after I graduated from undergrad, I moved to Los Angeles as a travel nurse.

And I worked, worked, worked, worked. I was on a visa. And yeah, I literally. used to work those 12-hour nursing shifts, six days a week. He used to work 72 hours a week. Travel nurses make good money. We sure did. It was great. I'm not going to lie. I had one bill. I had a cell phone bill. That was it. I was living, living my life. What is a travel nurse? So you do, like, it's an RN that will do like 13-week contracts, like anywhere around the country.

So I could literally be like, you know what? I want to go to New York for a couple months. And I would sign on with a travel nurse agency. And they would send me. me to New York, put me up in an apartment, and pay all of my bills, and I would go work for 13 weeks there, and then I'd pick a new location. But, I mean, I came to Los Angeles, and I was like, this place is amazing. I'm never going anywhere. So I just, I ended up staying, and I, like, signed on staff at a hospital, and then I decided to go to grad school, and three months into grad school, I met my husband. Wow. Oh, that soon. Yeah, it was literally, yeah, I was like, you know, I was out doing the most, like I said, enjoying my 20s, probably at a club four nights a week

or something like that. And then I was like, you know what, it is time for me to get serious about my life and manifest the things that I want out of my life. And that was, you know, a stable, committed relationship. I wanted children. I wanted to further my career. And so, like I said, I stopped going out, started grad school. And literally three months later, I met my Salas, and then it was like the wildest couple years because, like, CRNA programs are really, really hard. They're very hard to get into and they're very hard to get through. And so while everybody was like, you know, slugging through this program, like grinding it out, I mean, I was too, but I was also like living, like for real now because I'm like two months into us

dating. He's like, we got to go to Super Bowl. And I was like, I can't go to Super Bowl. I have tests on Monday. And he's like, sure you can. So like, he's like, you're going to come. You're going to do even better because you're going to learn how to relax and things are just going to come to you. And I remember we were in, it was an indie and I spent all day like studying in the hotel room while he was out like, you know, doing interviews and like all that stuff. And, you know, we went to all the parties, met, you know, the most crazy people. That's where my Peyton Manning story comes from. I don't, I don't think I've told you. I'll tell you after. You can tell me now. Okay. My Peyton Manning story. Please. So we're at Super Bowl in Indian.

Minneapolis and Marcelus is introducing me to, you know, all his friends and all these people, whatever. And I'm like chatting away with this super charming man who is just, you know, loves my husband. I have no idea who this man is. But he's like saying what a great guy he is and everything. Because remember, our relationship is still fresh. Anywho. So we get back to the room and I was like, that guy, that one guy, he was like really, really nice and he really likes you. And he's like, that guy, he's like, do you, you don't know who you were talking to? And I was like, no, who is that? He's like, honey, that's Peyton Manning. And I was like, okay, who's Peyton Manning? Wow. Yeah, I had no idea. He probably liked that, though. I just, I had no idea.

But like, you know, he is like 6'5. What? Peyton Manning. But I, so it was. He probably thought he was a football player, just not. But I just, I just don't know who he was. And I didn't, so I played basketball. I knew basketball players. I didn't follow football. In Canada, football culture isn't the same. It's not big. We don't follow football like that there. Like, I just didn't know who he was. I got Henry Burris, though. Sorry?

Henry Burr's. I don't know. The greatest Canadian football player of all time, Henry Burr's. I know Warren Moon. Oh, yeah, he was there. Warren Moon. I love the way you said that. What? Warren Moon.

Because I just, I was like, if I get this wrong van, it's going to make fun of me. I won't. Okay. As a matter of fact, I have something to say. Yeah. The woman's great. The moment that Sell asked you to come to the Super Bowl, you should have known he was trying to get me.

I actually knew he was trying to get married the night we met. Wow. What did he say? You're going to be my wife. Oh, okay. But you believed it. He is very different, as you can attest to. Like, he knows what he wants. He's very ambitious. He's very determined, and he is so thoughtful.

Like, when he says something, he has conviction. So he was like, so that night when we met, he had three questions for me that decided it for him. He's like, I was wearing this tight bandage dress, one arm out, legs out, and everything. And he's like, so where'd you get your muscles from? And I was like, oh, I played basketball in college. And he's like, okay, well, where are you from? Where'd you go to college? And I said, I went to the University of British Columbia and Canada. He's like, oh, you're Canadian. Okay. He loves Canadians. He loves Toronto. And then he's like, so what do you, what do you do out here? You're a model, you're an actress. And I was like, no, I'm a nurse anesthesia resident. And he's like,

Okay. And then I was like, excuse me, we'll be right back. Came out of the bathroom. He had a security guard standing beside him. He was like, stay with her all night and make sure she's good. And like, that was it. Wow. I like you. They don't do that anymore. No, they don't.

Well, I mean, he passed up one of the premium male whoring weeks. Oh, the Super Bowl. Yeah, yeah. The fact that he wanted to bring you to the Super Bowl, he wanted everybody to see. Oh, yes. So, like, that should have told you right there. And then he gaslit you into coming. So I would have failed the test to come.

Yeah. No, but I was like, you know, they wanted to go by herself. Rachel did go by. Rachel. I went to network. I went to network. She went for business purposes. Thank you.

But even that night, though, it was his boy's birthday party. That was Dennis Northcutt's birthday party. There were gerbils everywhere. Jerbles and pigeons everywhere. Jermbles and pigeons. What are they? Rachel knows. Birds.

The birds. The birds at the table. I've never heard gerbils before. Can I say something? Jerbles got me. Y'all, can I be honest with you? As two strong women, y'all shouldn't do that.

Y'all shouldn't categorize of the women as birds and pigeons. I got to put my foot down. I got to put my foot down. It's not. I'm not opposed to saying, that's a real thing. Why is that?

Is it, is it, is it, let's talk about this. Birds, you've used the term birds before, to describe it. Is it right to call other women who might have different lifestyle than a different lifestyle? It's not a different life style. What is a bird? Tell me what a bird is. A bird is someone who is just there with their mouth open trying to get what they can get. And, you know, it's, it may or may not be a reciprocal situation, but they're just trying to capitalize on whatever they can get. Any crumbs that are falling. The birds are trying to

get the crumbs that are falling. There's no respect. There's no respect. No. See, and I... Do y'all know these, do y'all know women that you would consider

to be birds? Not anymore. Well, back in the 20s, yes. Yeah, in your 20s, absolutely. I didn't have them... Actually, I did have them as friends.

I had a couple friends. But they were my club friends. But no, now as a 42-year-old woman, not anymore. But I will say, I am fine calling them birds and gerbils because it bothers me. That lifestyle bothers me.

I have three daughters. I was like, Ladies, we need to straighten up our collars. We need to get it together because you are making it easy for men to disrespect women. No, I will only push back, I will say, listen, there's nothing wrong with having your stuff together and being on a hustle and wanting to have a good time. It's the crumbs. It's the lack of self-respect. It's the pick-me energy where you're moving a little bit different, where you're willing to do any and everything to sacrifice your worth.

just to get a bad. Right. Or your rent paid. Or to say you slept with this one person to add, like, there's levels to it. Because there's dribble down. Like when people talk about now, like Rachel, talk about now dating. Like, dating is bad because of the gerbils. Because the gerbils don't have any self-respect.

They don't demand any respect from the men. The men now know they don't have to respect women to the same level. And if someone does demand respect, they're just going to. to move on to the next because they're like, oh, you're too hard, you're too difficult. I'm going to move on to the easy one. She just wants her rent paid, easy. You know some of this is true. Well, no, this is all true.

This is the way I look at it because I see the way I look, the way I judge people fundamentally is whether or not they want to be doing the things that they're doing. That's the way I judge someone. Okay, I get that. So what I'm saying is, let's say that, and this is going to sound weird to a lot of people, let's say that there's a woman and she has some sort of desire to have sex with the whole starting five of the Phoenix Suns. Wow. Right?

Okay. Let's say she wants to do that. She wants to do it. She feels desire to have all of these men. If she wants to do it and she does it, I have no judgment. But if she comes with one of those guys and then one of those guys says, hey, while we're here, I need you to fuck all my boys. And she compromises herself and what she believes in for herself, for someone else.

That is when I have a judgment on somebody's character. I agree with all that. And that goes in any way. And so what I would say is I see a lot of pick-meas about women in women, shall I say, who are espousing this militant, traditionalism. I see a lot of women on social media that are saying, girl, a man has to do this and a man has to do that and a man has to do that and a man has to do that in order to garner favor from more traditional men. And I see those women and I look at them as also

kind of a little bit being pick me's because they're trying to attain the male gays in a different way. But what if they actually believe that? Then they're not a people. pick me. If they believe in those things and actually want to do those things to get that, and that's not a peck me. I need to back you up a little bit. Just like if you actually want to do five men. If you actually want to go out every night and to be with this. If you actually want to do it, then I don't have a problem with that. I need to, I need to back up a little bit. And I'm going to push back a little bit too. Because I think when you said there's a woman who wants to sleep with the whole starting five, first thing I need to know is motive. Why? And you know why I want to

know why? Because we're not the same. Men and women, we are not the same. You guys are out there to spread your seed as wide as he can. You're, you know, you're in the jungle. You're trying to make as many offspring as you can. That's just how you guys are hardwired. You know what we're hardwired for? Safety, protection, stability. You are the hunters. Wait, no. Yeah, hunters gather. It's different. So when a woman says, like, I just want to go out there. It's empowering. And No, I push back. I don't, I push back. The key word is this.

Women and a woman. So are men and women different? Absolutely different. For sure. Different motives, different needs, different ways. I think the most impressive thing that men have been able to do is to convince women that, not actually to convince women, to dictate to women that the ways that women might naturally be are less important than the way that men are.

Right? And that's the way that you, the patriarchy works. I'm not talking about all women. I'm talking about a woman. Okay. So it's not, it's not necessarily that women would want to do this or that men would want to do this. But somewhere, for some reason, there is a woman that has a different set of standards involving sexual Congress. Okay. Is wired in a different way sexually. Might have been socialized in a different way.

And the question is, is what she wants, the one. the one woman that might want to do this is that in some way anti-woman, anti-respect. I'm not saying that all women are going to look at the world like that because they won't. But what I'm saying is if it can be interrogated that there is, for whatever reason,

a woman, a person, does she have to then meet some arbitrary respect standard that men really have put on to society for women or else she's a bird or a body? or a horse. I think that's fine.

I understand what you're saying with, you know, her kind of being an outlier, perhaps. And if that's how she chooses to live her life, great. However, I think then she's also going to have to understand societal norms, right? Like, that's not the typical woman that is going to be chosen, per se, right? Like when they say you can't. They do, but I don't think that is like with the greatest, of frequency, per se.

I think a woman who desires to do that, and I know, I know or knew a couple of people who totally would do that and would feel empowered by it, it would be fine. I think the woman who decides to do that doesn't care about societal norms.

Does she, or is she acting on self-preservation? No. No? You don't think so? No. Okay. They're rare. But I do, there are women who feel empowered by that, who want to do that, who want to say they did that.

And they don't care in that moment. They might eventually care. All I'm saying is, the only reason, because it's interesting to me when I hear women use terms like that. But that's, we're not, that woman, I mean, not a bird. Because really, we define that. And then y'all are actually regurgitating the things and the, the, the things about women that we say. Like we made that up. We put that standard on women.

Like we, men, because of the, I really believe this. Because I tell you this, man. You don't know your boys until they get their heart broke, right? Oh. You don't know. Men, man. Yes, you don't. Because it's so hard for a man to be cut in half by a woman.

Women are really used to it. Like, they are because men, like women. But like when a man has put this all into a woman, It's just so, I knew a guy and he was in this situation where he came back from work and something, this niggil was never the same. Never, because you get brought up to be told that you are like a mini king and you're going to have a mini kingdom. And in that mini kingdom, everything that you do is going to be reflected in respect and in deference. and in almost this weird sort of worship. And then someone defies that.

And you go, what the, am I not shit? Even future. Future liked, he cared about Lori Harvey. For as much as Future has done when Lori Harvey, the one that he chose, when she had moved on, this nigga was making Instagram videos. And you see it and you go,

I see you, you got feelings. And really the guardrails, the things that men tell women about chastity and all of that stuff, it's to protect that feeling. They want you to feel bad if you are too out there because it protects them. If you feel like you're a whore for doing something, then it's behavioral control in a way. it makes them feel safer for women to feel bad about doing things that they want to do. I truly believe that. Well, you would know.

Yeah. I think also, though, it's, it's, they're kind of protecting their investment, too. Like, because if he really likes you, you know, he, he doesn't want to know that you've been with all his boys, right? Or that you're, like, known around town in that way. Let me tell you something. What? If he really likes you. It's still, guys, that's still an exception.

Trust me, I have heard so many stories about, it's like, yes, there's the few that, like, that they kind of go from one to the other. And it's like they know the inside game. So they keep picking that girl because they don't want to have to teach someone else how to live that lifestyle. But if you're getting a guy who's not in that circle and he doesn't want to be part of that circle, trust and believe he wants to. he wants to make sure that his woman was banned, right? I mean, she's not wrong. She's not wrong. But this is what I'll say.

This is a tough thing for a lot of guys to hear. A lot of that has to do with how much perception of the man matters. Oh, for sure. So the guys who are freer, wealthier, who have less invested into public perception to them, they only go for the women that they want and the women that make them happy. Like, if you're a politician, it matters who you're with, right?

Because people have this perception of you. If you're in your community and you care about what your neighbors think and you care about what the people around you think of your life, it matters like how you present your wife and your family to people. But see if you're like a rich, you only go for the person that puts a smile on your face. And it don't matter who she was with before. It don't matter how many people she'd been with. And it don't matter all of that.

Because if you have, if you're in a situation and it's like, fuck it. Like it doesn't matter what's thought. I can name you not just rappers and actors and stuff like that. I can name you billionaires that are with women right now who you can make an argument have been sort of, if we're looking at things in the circle. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. I know. We know some guys, they do not fucking care what you think about the person that curls their toes. You don't, you can't affect their life. That's true. And so, but somebody else that has to show up to church. Yeah. I get it.

Right. Somebody else that has to show up to church that has to go to the thing and have somebody go. Mm. But that guy gives a fuck about what people think about his spouse. Yeah. Yeah. And I think even the ones that you're describing, I think, I think they care a little bit. They just weigh it out.

Because there have been a couple of them that have done that and they've gone through hell having to defend their way. It's the exception. It's the exception. It's not that it doesn't get. Same way you describe women versus woman. Yeah. It's man versus men. You know, there's a difference.

Yeah. Yeah. There's a difference. Okay. I knew we were going to get into a woman. conversation that was totally just like gender wars is that we called I was great but I also want to get into animal because because it will turn into the comment section why because the audience yeah yeah probably oh no this is

funny this came from from saying gerbils this is hysterical no I like gerbil's that's tough that's a trigger that's no no no no that is a trigger no no because rachel let me tell you something I'm afraid because Rachel is also oh yeah I dribbles and visions. I love Rachel because Rachel is in this weird negative zone. Y'all ever been, you ever watch like, Rachel, negative? No, no, no, no. You got to know what the negative zone is.

Okay. So Superman, okay? He, when there's a prisoner, they put him in a negative zone. And the prisoner is in this place where they're stuck. Rachel is stuck between liberal superwoman and, really conservative traditional upbringing, which makes all of her worldview, like, super interesting to me. Okay.

Because she really is a person's person to me. She's not like beholden to either side. There's like, Rachel, sometimes you'll talk to Rachel and you'll ask Rachel something, and you'll be like, God damn, Rachel, you're a little bit too liberal on that. And then you'll ask Rachel something the next day, and you'll be like, God damn, Rachel, you're a little too conservative on that. Yeah, I love that. It's a real person.

Both ways. Yeah. But you know what? I agree with that. And I respect her for that. And I love her for that because I quite honestly think

that's how it should be. I'm to the left on every single thing. I know, man. We know, we know, man. Anarchy. Everybody fuck who you want to fuck. The conversations that have been honest. We're taxing you 97%

on everything that you make over $5 million. You don't agree with that. You don't agree with that. Man. He didn't agree with that. Be careful what you asked for. He doesn't agree with that.

No. I love having these conversations because I feel like we obviously know you before, you know, other people may have met you on Housewives per se. And when you're on, you're in this setting or whatever off camera, like, people get to know the real you. Right. So my question to you is before, not before, but like when you were on reality TV and then after, because it's two different worlds. For sure. What was your expectation versus your reality with both on it? and then after.

On it, you know what? I honestly, I felt weird when I agreed to do it because it's like I felt this kind of like stigma of like, I'm going to be a housewife. Whereas like other people were like, oh my gosh, you're going to be in housewives. It's so cool. I was like, but that's just so not my personality.

And like the whole process happened so fast, as you know, Rachel. Like they came to, they had already been filming for six weeks. And, oh, yeah. So I think they had started filming and then they're like, nothing's happening. We need something to happen. Wow. So, yeah, they'd already been filming. It was midway through the season.

They reached out to me and I was filming two weeks later. It was fast. And, you know, I was a very private person, very, you know, happy just like taking care of the kids and the house and working and, you know, being Marcelus's wife. I was cell's wife. And so when I agreed to do it, I was like. like, you know what? I'm not like that. I'm going to show people a different kind of housewife. I'm going to show them a affluent, happy black family in Beverly Hills. This is the expectation. This was the expectation, my love. This was the expectation.

Because we're everywhere, right? We are everywhere. We have a very full life. I have a very full life, right? I have four children. I'm a nurse anesthetist. We have a nonprofit that we do for youth and underserved communities. You know, I do a lot of things. And so I was like, this is going to be awesome to show people that women like this, empowered women, strong women, et cetera, et cetera, exist in Beverly Hills. And I'm black. And I wanted to share with people my life story, right?

I wanted to be able to, you know, have people be able to relate to me. People that were adopted, people that are biracial. people just that are from other countries and people that could resonate with like my rags to riches kind of story, right? Like I grew up with nothing, you guys, like very humble beginnings. And then, you know, I worked really, really hard, made good decisions. I was very fortunate to have awesome mentors. And then I married an NFL player. Like, my life is dope.

And I know that. And I'm very blessed. And I wanted to share all of that with people, right? And then... The reality. The reality. When... I'll say this.

I learned... I learned a lot from doing reality TV. I learned how the entertainment industry works. I learned how the media works. I learned how marketing works. I learned to... I'm also a recovering people pleaser, right? Which is a terrible.

way to be on a reality television show. So, follow me here, right? Terrible way. Yes, it is. Because I'm from the mindset of everybody's your friend. Right. The producers are your friends. That's right. Exactly.

So, and it's so funny because our showrunner is, like, it's, he was named, he's being sued by someone else that was in the Bravo world. And when I read that, I was like, oh yeah, I can see that. Because those are the same kind of

things he would say to me. I, you know, I was as five followed instructions. We're going to talk about this. You're going to do this. You're going to blah, blah, blah. And I was like, okay. And then just you get all this feedback. Oh, it's great. We love it. Exactly. Exactly. Rachel. Being an athlete, you're like, I'm going to listen to coach. This is a new arena for me. I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm going to listen to my coach. He's going to lead me in the right direction. And then all you're getting is positive feedback in return. So you just you just keep doing what you're asked to do. And then as I'm, as I, as I, as I, it air, I was like, what is happening?

Like, what you're, you didn't give me a storyline. My mother was diagnosed with stage four lung cancer while we were filming. They didn't show any of that struggle that I was dealing with. I had one night we were in Spain and I totally broke down about like my adoption story and they didn't show that. My family had one 30 second scene. They didn't show me as a mother. they didn't show me as a nurse anesthetist.

In fact, all they did was slander nurses. Like, it was horrible. Like, you know, like my profession was attacked. I was personally attacked. I was lied on. And I'm like, guys, this is my real life. Like, none of you can hold a candle to my actual real life, yet you're going to make me look like that person.

It was wild. Yeah. Do you think that they brought you on there to be a certain type of black woman? 100%. And so when you weren't that type of black woman, they, when I say a certain type of black woman, I'll talk about in the reality television perspective of it. And then when you weren't that type of black woman, they were like, we don't know what to do with her. I was told that I have, I'm too virtuous. I'm too virtuous. I have too much integrity. After, or during filming they told you this. I heard a little bit of both. Okay. And so then you feel like you, and by the way, there, I'm saying the type of, be honest with you, they want, sometimes when they bring a sister onto one of those shows, and the Beverly Hill show is mostly white, right? Yes.

So sometimes when they bring a sister on to one of those shows, they want you to throw wine in a couple of people's places. Yes, they want you to be malleable to whatever they kind of throw at you. So as I was watching these episodes air, I was being checked on every week. Somebody would call me every week to make sure, I was okay and I was not okay. I was crying hysterically after every episode. I was like, why did you ask me to do this? You asked me to be on this show. You came to me. I didn't try

to be on the show. Why did you do this to me? And why are you continuing to do it to me every week? Do you know what I mean? Like you're not showing, there's no balance. You're not showing anything else of me. You're just, it was just, who, it was horrible. And then, like I said, like, the attack on my profession was just, it was really odd because I'm like, I'm the only one who's educated here. Like, I have multiple degrees. And, you know, why are we doing this? It was a lot. It was a lot.

So then were you shocked, knowing that they said you had too much integrity and that you were virtuous, which is wild? Yeah. That's a bad thing. Were you shocked then? It's a bad thing for a reality show. I understand that now. Yeah, it's a bad thing. It is a bad thing for a reality show to be virtuous.

But, okay, let me just say as a housewife's connoisseur. Yeah. There's always, there needs to be one. Like, there needs to be somebody who is in the middle, who's peacemaker, who is that person. Can you honest with you about something? On a show with a predominantly white cast, they are never going to let that character be a black lady. Yeah. On a show with a predominantly white cast, they're never going to let.

And that's why the people please are part of it is like this is such a let when you go into one of those situations, you have to be meticulous. Oh. About how they're going to portray you. Let me say something that I learned because I learned this from like watching like, or I should say watching, but maybe just seeing clips of like other housewife characters, okay? Marketing. If anybody out there is about to go into reality TV, have a strong understanding. of marketing, have a plan before you go and do it, there's one person that comes to mind who's, like, killing it right now because she's in marketing. She knew how to go in and market

herself to what that audience wanted. She played the game perfectly. What was this? I don't even want to say her name. But I... Is she bad? No. No. But, um... No, no, she's not bad or anything. Um... Bethanynene-Frank. No, no. Bethany's not on anyone. Giselle. Stop. Robyn. Brin from New York. I don't know who that is. She's actually struggling right now, so she's not doing it.

But she's in marketing. That's what she does. So coming on to it, she knew exactly what character. She's going to talk about sex all the time, because the audience loves to talk about sex. I'm going to play like the Valley Girl kind of ditsy sort of persona because that's very unarming and everything. I'm going to play up like my blackness. I'm going to talk about having to go to the hair salon and get my hair done. I'm like, are you kidding me?

You're talking about going to the hair salon to get your hair done? I didn't grow up with black people. I was adopted and grew up in an Asian family. I moved here, many reasons, but to learn black culture. You want to talk about like, huh? One of those. I didn't know. I didn't.

I didn't grow up a lot of life, man. I had to like, no, but honestly, there were a lot of things that I felt like a void that I needed to learn. But I'm just comparing these things that I'm like, look at my life story. If they wanted to show my life story, it would have been incredible. But they didn't want to show my life story. I truly think it had something to do with if you show all of these things and all that encompasses this black woman. Like I said, I know how dope I am. I know how dope my life is.

I know how lucky I am. I know how blessed I am. I know what I came from. I know what I'm capable of. If they had shown that, it shows what everybody else is not. But you would have done a second season. I would have done a second season to now that I knew how to play the game to redeem myself. Absolutely.

How would the second season have been different? Oh, I would have known, like, you don't listen to the producers. You only say the things. You've got to pick your narrative and you've got to go with that. You've got to just market, market, market. It's marketing. It's all marketing. It's all marketing. Did you think they were going to give you a second season? I did. I did. I did.

Because I was like, they didn't show my life. Do you know what I mean? And they were so excited when I agreed to do it. So I was like, oh, there's no way. I was like, oh, they just needed drama for this season. So, you know, they just, they did that. But like next season, I can, I can fix it. I know what to do now. I know not to talk about certain things and, you know, all that kind of stuff. And no. So, but I also think it was like, you know, there were other, like, again, being like too virtuous. Like you, you know, you'd see certain things happen and you'd be like, that's not okay. That can't happen.

And then you can't complain about those kind of things. I know that now in the industry. You can't complain about certain things. The fact that they have been shooting six weeks into that tells me that they had an ironclad. role for who they wanted and needed you to be. 100%. And it was probably going to be a lot harder. You'd have to have been fucking tap dancing.

I mean, I'm being for real. But the fact that it, that it's like, oh, we're shooting for six weeks. Like something's missing. This lady is what's missing. You were like threading a very, very, very... That's what I was told by other producers later on. They're like it was almost set up in a, in a, an impossible situation because they're like no one, no one ever comes in like halfway through

the season. And it's like it's almost impossible to stay like that. People don't get a, exactly. A friend of would have made more sense. But the people, it doesn't give the audience enough time to get to know who you are, especially like I said when they didn't give me a personal storyline and they didn't show any, they didn't show any dimension of my life. So yeah, I mean, It was just, I was set up to fail. I didn't know that was the thing. I just thought about this as I'm talking to you because obviously you've been very open on social media about like health scare and what you've been through. And I just put these together because I, you know, talking to you as you were going through everything.

Yeah. Like I was checking on you. I'm like, are you okay? Are you upset? I'm defending you. I'm like, that's not who she is. Like you guys don't know her. They're not showing who she is.

But I know how upset you are. I know the toll that it took on you. And then you have this scare. And so I want you, because you talked a little bit about it, if you can, if you're comfortable with, like, one, do you think the stress of that contributed? Because you're, you work, she wakes up at like 4.30 in the morning. She works out. You watch what you eat.

They are one of the most working out. Pickle ball couples in the entire. You are super healthy. And like, yeah, they are, they are a picture. Cell has actually, I will say this. Pickle ball. Like, sell has actually, like, cell has actually gotten. a lot fitter, like sell this.

Like, y'all, you know, that always invite people to come play people. Always. It's always very active. Yes. Them, Sebastian, there is come over to the house for pickleball. I'm like, we always, we always are, our family, that's what I'm saying,

we are content for days. Yeah, and the fact that they didn't use and capitalize on, I'm like, that, sorry, but that's crazy to me. And just the people we know and the stuff we do, no housewife can touch the Wiley's. They can't. Like, it's just... Do you think the stress contributed to what you went to? Um, I, I do. It was, you know, I was, it was really, really hard

for me at the beginning of the year. Who don't know what was the health scare? Um, so I, here, let me, I'll take you through it a little bit. So, um, all the stress from like the beginning of the year, it was really from, you know, the attack on my profession. I had to deal with it. It's, a very, like, you know, it was a very public way. And there was, you know, a professional organization that even got involved, you know, using me as a pawn for political issues that exist between the physician anesthesiology association, like the ASA and my association, the American Association of Nurse Anesthesiology. And, you know, I was set up perfectly to look like this person on the show. And then the ASA comes in and, you know,

slanders me. And it was, you know, and that takes, that has real ramifications from my real life. I'm a, I'm a real life working professional, right? So like I said, it was, it was and is very, very stressful. And I, so I lost a lot of weight. I lost like 25 pounds. I think everybody, if you look on my Instagram, you can see how skinny I got. It was very skinny.

I lost 25 pounds in a very short amount of time. And then I started having like really bad like stomach pain, like epigastric pain at night time after I would eat. And, you know, I'm just busy. I'm like, I've got this stuff going on. I'm mom working, all the things. And, you know, we just, we kind of just put ourselves second. So I just, I ignored it. And then, but it happened. It kept going on for like months. And it's so funny because I went away for a week to France. And, you know, how they have better food there. Their food is better quality.

So, and I was totally fine for that week. And then I got back and it started hurting right over again. And so I was like, all right, let me go get this checked out. So it turns out I had a tumor in my gallbladder. Jesus. Yeah. And gallstones. Obviously, the gallstones were like, whatever.

But the tumor was, like, very concerning to me, obviously. And so the radiologist is freaking out. The surgeon I was referred to was freaking out. out, like, we need to have it taken out immediately. And he even tried to refer me to like a liver transplant surgeon, actually, because he's like, if there's something on your liver from your gallbladder, like this, you know, it was just, it was, it was a lot. It was very, very stressful. Um, but when you ask, I mean, like, absolutely, I really do feel like there is a correlation between mind, body, and stress does terrible things to our bodies, terrible things to our bodies. And like,

you were just saying, like, I'm the healthiest person. I wake up at 4.30 in the morning. I work out every day. I eat healthy. I try to balance my life as best as possible, mitigate my stress. Like, prior to all of this, I don't think I used to stress about anything. I was like, you know, like, I'm just the most happy go lucky, like, just positive person. And it has, this has been very, very detrimental to, you know, I'm just. both my mental health and my physical health. And that's why I'm so intentional now with sharing that with my followers and fans. Because I think it is so, so important for people to just make sure that they're putting themselves first,

advocating for yourself. Take care of your mental health. Take care of your mental health. Because nothing is more important than that. physical health, absolutely. I will always preach that, but take care of your mental health. Set boundaries, you know, limit your social media. Just take care of yourselves. Were you embarrassed not to have been brought back? No, I wouldn't say I was embarrassed. Just really disappointed, like I said.

Yeah, because I just, you know, my expectations were like, this is going to be great. I'm going to be able to give a voice and a platform to so much. many other people that are unseen. That's what I really thought. I was like, I'm going to be able to represent black people in this way. I'm going to be able to represent mothers in this way. I'm going to be able to represent nurses in this way.

I was really excited. I'm going to be able to represent people that come from nothing in this way. Something that's like the show doesn't really have on there. No. They don't really have, I haven't seen it. I'm not into it as much as racial is. But someone that kind of has that story.

Nobody has my story. Nobody has my story. An bi-racial, adopted girl from a farm town in Canada who becomes a nurse in nesthetist and marries an NFL player. Go find that for me. Let me tell you something. There's a book. There's a book. I need you to do me a favor.

He's coming. All right. Now we've got to get to it. I need you to stop going back and forth from biracial to black. Pick. You know what? Choose. No, no, you're right.

Because you guys. She's a black girl first. You became black. You became black at what age? You say like 21, 22. when I moved here. So it was very... So 22 is when you started to learn about...

What did you learn about black people when you became... Oh, what did I learn about black people when I moved here? I just... I learned cultural things because it was very... It was very, like... It was hard being the only one all the time because everything was such an anomaly for other people. Like, the smallest things. You started fucking over them in sports.

Well, I mean... They were like... They were like... They were like, that's a got... There were people in Canada being like, hey, come here. I mean, I was... Get that goddamn Nigerian off the... Like, like, you see this village?

Get the goddamn Igbo, Yorba off the fucking court. Oh, my God, stop. Like, yes, I was always the most, I was always the most muscular person. I was always the most muscular. No, but that is a thing. Like, that is really... Bro, fucking over these little white girls. God.

Give you that shit! I can't. Give me that thing. How are you feeling now, though? Because you didn't finish. Like, how are you now? How's your help? Oh, hell, clause, yeah.

Help. I feel. Man. That's funny to me. Oh, M.G. I feel physically, I feel so much better. Okay. Since after my surgery.

Like, you know, I have so much more energy. I don't have pain anymore. Good. So we're waiting for pathology to come back because I still waiting on that. So, you know, but I feel so much better. mentally, you know, it's, it is a journey, right? Like, it is a journey. There are still a lot of things that I am struggling with that I was not obviously struggling with before. And I'm fine with that. I'm fine with being open with that. Like, yes, I take antidepressants. Yes, I take anti-anxiety

medication. Yes, I take medication for nightmares. I have nightmares because of it. Yeah. Like, I have nightmares of like, it's really odd. Like, I'll be either back in school and I like, for we had a test or something and I'm about to fail the test because I didn't prepare. Or I'll be at work and I'll be like, oh my gosh, I don't know what to do. Like, I have like, like, profession-related nightmares. I have recurring nightmares that I'm the same reoccurring nightmare that like, I'm back in Baton Rouge and I don't know what to do with my future. Like, I don't have a job.

Like, I don't have anything. And, like, I'm destitute. And then I'll wake up and I go. wait, it takes literally about five minutes after I wake up for me to be like, oh, I'm okay. I have a good career and all that stuff. I have this at least twice a month.

Wow. Twice a month? Yeah, no, no, twice a month in dreams, the feeling of you're broke, you have nothing, you're not doing anything. It's almost like you're so afraid to go back to that point or something.

Yeah, yeah, I can't go back. Well, no. I can't, it can't. None of us are going to. I know, but it's like, if I fell off, it would is, a lot of people will be fucked. You won't. You won't. You won't.

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slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. So we have to talk a little bit about politics. Let's do it. Okay. So with your background, I'm assuming that you feel a huge kinship with Kamala Harris. So I'm somewhere in the, I'm kind of, remember how you were just talking about Rachel being kind of in the middle? Yeah. I'm somewhere in the middle.

And I'm actually really glad that you brought this up, though. because I was and am so tired of people just assuming that like, oh, her husband, these are her husband's beliefs, those are her beliefs too. Like a cell at some point became like super duper conservative. I didn't know this about sell. Yeah. But at some point, Cell came out and Cell is now a pretty well-established YouTube account doing really well, pretty well-established voice on the right?

I don't know if I'd say that. Gosh, no. He's not MAGA? No. Sell, is it MAGA? No, that's a whole extreme. That's an extreme title. So, Sal's voting for Kamala Harris?

You have to have a conversation with him. Okay. And he can talk to you about all of his political beliefs and all those kinds of things. Yeah, come on himself. Because I'm not going to, I'm not going to represent what he stands for or even say what he stands for because I'm like, no, we. are, we, I've learned that we, another thing I learned, we are our own entities. Of course you have to be. People. People. Yeah, because people think, oh, you're married. You have the same beliefs. No, we don't agree on a lot of things. We don't always agree on parenting.

We are our own individual entities. So, Anna Marie Wiley, who was raised in Canada in a very, you know, it's a pretty, it's quite a left country. We have, you know, very strong social systems. Um, I came here very democratic, very democratic, like the most. Sure. Okay. And I think that through like my life experiences and where I am now in my life as, you know, a mother of four, a homeowner, someone who really values safety, the strength of the economy. I think our homeless issue is out of control. It's really like a, it's an issue by issue

situation for me. So I can't, I can't even say, like, I don't know who I'm voting for yet, to be honest with you. Because there are issues where I am more conservative and there are issues where I lean more left. It literally depends on what it is. And, but I will say this.

I do not like the way the media handles politics. And I think it is really unfortunate that it's almost like if someone is going to vote Republic.

Republic. Republic. If someone's going to vote Republican, it's like you, people won't even tell you anyway. And you are literally shamed to saying that you're voting for the Democratic Party. And I think that's really wrong. You know, I really do.

I think that there is, let me just get a little baby conspiracy theorist now. Like, I think there, I don't like that agenda. I don't think there's an agenda. The A word. I do. I think there's an agenda. And I don't think it's right. And I wish that people could just, I understand that people have very strong political views.

And I guess that's why people say, don't talk about politics or religion. But if you want people to talk about it, you also have to be open to hearing other people's views. And I think that's where us as a society in general, we've lost the ability to respect other people's viewpoints and accept them. Why do you think that is? Social media. Social media. I think that people have, everyone can have a platform now in varying capacities.

And so I think that not everything is rooted in research. anymore. Not everything is really even based in reality. Everything is opinion now. But I would say, I think it would be, I think election season in general would be a lot more harmonious

if there was more acceptance to civilized dialogue around the issues. Yeah, I don't disagree with some of that. I would ask you this, we're what, two weeks away from the election? Something like that. Yeah. You said you don't know? I don't know.

What would it, what would you need to see at this point to make a decision? Because it's already kind of there. No, I know. You know what it is? This is the problem for me is I'm not hearing clear answers. I'm seeing, I'm seeing celebrities campaigning. I'm seeing people do photo ops. But I'm not getting clear answers.

and that's why I think there's an agenda and it makes me very skeptical on both parts. Can you ask you a question? Yeah. What do you want in a society? I want I want a lot of grassroots efforts to be done. I think that

mental illness slash homelessness slash crime, I think they're all related. And I think that that is going to be fixed by grassroots efforts which start with education and health care, but I don't think those things are being addressed.

I want a safe community for everyone. I don't want to have to worry about my health being broken into in the middle of the night. I want education to be stronger. I think we can all agree that the education system here is not great. You'll see when you guys have kids, you'll understand. It's really unfortunate. Like I went to the school down the street because all the schools are great, right?

Here, that is not ideal. And it's just not an option for a lot of people because our public school education system here is broken. It's based on numbers and it's based on funding. If your kid goes to the school, the school is going to be given money for them being there in attendance. Whether your child learns something or not is a whole other story. So children are not being talked. in schools. And that is trickling up. And those people are becoming adults and making decisions in our society. So I want a strong education system. I want, we need, inflation is out of control.

Guys, eggs cost $12. That's nuts. Right? Inflation keeps going up. Wages are staying the same. That is not sustainable for people. You know what that's also going to lead to? More crime. Because people can't get stuff, right? People can't buy homes. Like, how unfortunate is that? Like, think about when my kids are of that age, how in the world are they going to be able to buy homes? Young people can't, they can't buy homes. People that are coming out of college can't find jobs.

Like, I want people to be able to thrive. That's what I want. And how do you feel like they achieve that? How do I feel like they achieve that? I think there needs to be, like I said, education. I think there needs to be more emphasis put on education. I think there needs to be more emphasis put on social systems that would help people that actually need it. Do you think that destroying the Department of Education would be a good way to have an onus on education?

Or like dismantling it or going to privatize education? I think that charter schools are a great option because it, puts more onus on the school to do a good job with our children. But doesn't it in terms of charter schools? Okay. So, and this is the reason why I'm asking that. I'll tell you why. Yeah.

It's a healthy discussion because I don't have any problem with conservative thought. Not at all. But I do think this, though, I don't. We talk about it all time. I do think this, though, if I were to sit down and ask, and you didn't do this, but if I would sit down and ask a lot of brothers I'm talking to right now, like, what kind of woman do you want? They'd have a very specific answer.

They tell you sexual things. they tell you looks things, they tell you, background things, they tell you, all of that stuff. But if you ask those same guys, like, what kind of society do they want? Oh, man, like, I want freedom. And when I say, brothers, I'm just talking about guys that I have this conversation, what I'm talking about specifically black men. But a lot of the things that you just discussed to me are, the reason why it's important to have the conversation is because the dysfunction here

has to do with a socio-economic dysfunction to me that's rooted in gangstantiated. Capitalism. Oh, heavens. Oh, I love, can we have that conversation after? Yeah, that's rooted in gangster capitalism. Ooh. And to me, putting profit over people. Yeah.

And we could talk about charter schools and what charter schools mean and who has a charter school and who doesn't have a charter school. But if we're talking about funding public education, a lot of the money that should be allocated to public public education is there. We're making choices with our checkbook to do other things. we're making choices to me that says kids in South Banner Rouge don't need as much care as kids in Boccage or kids that from different parts of Bancash.

And we're making those decisions with taxpayer dollars. Wait, who's making those decisions? Well, the corporate interests that run the politicians that are there. But this is what I would say. Yeah. I'm not going to do work for the Democrats. I'm not a Democrat. Yeah.

But what I will say is that. You're not? No. Who are you? I don't believe in... Militant. I don't believe in parties. I believe in people.

Oh, okay. Right. So what I believe in is doing what's best for people is not in the interest of the Republican Party. Okay. And I'll tell you why I believe that. Okay. Everything you just talked about, you actually used the term social safety net.

I did. But let me also. say one more piece to that. Again, because I came from a country where we had a very strong social safety net. And granted, we have significantly less people in Canada than are here. And way less resourced. Absolutely. But I feel like here the system gets taken advantage of so much more.

I think because people know that those things are there, they, it's almost like the mentality of wanting the most. for doing the least because it's a capitalist society. People are either going to be on the hamster wheel trying to do the most, very motivated, very ambitious, or they're going to be like, you know what, someone else is going to be running that wheel for me. Let me just take what I'm going to be given. And I think there are too many people here that take advantage of that system. And I don't think it's right for the people who actually are trying to contribute to society.

Now let's go back to what did you call that gangster? Who are those people just real quick before we? Are those people? Or the people because I'll tell you why I'll ask you that question. That's a very specific cultural indictment when you say that there are people who, because even if there are, right, remember what we talked about before with like woman versus women? Even if there are people, in order for that to be an actual societal issue, the numbers of people that did that would have to be so vast that there has to be a profile for that person.

who is that person in America that doesn't want better, that doesn't want to work for it, that just wants it to be given to them? Who are they? Where are they? And like, is that, have you heard about this person? Do you know this person? But who are the people that have decided, I don't want to live in a big house? I don't want to have stuff. I don't want to have a good education. What I want is $1,000 from the government or like $500 for the government in perpetuity. It's not so much who those people are or where they are. It is what has led them there and to that mindset. I think there is a big incentive for there to be those people because for there to, there has to be those people. There has to be the 99.8% for there to be the 0.2%. Do you get where

I'm going with that, there has to be those people in order for there to be these people in a capitalist society. I want to say, you just said, what did you call it? I actually think it's the opposite. You do. So I think in order to have billionaires, like hyper billionaires, I think that you have to have homeless people with people that are going without. No, that's what I meant. Right. So then the answer is a compression. No. of wealth. And the answer is because the reality is I can, everybody wants to be Jeff Bezos or one of these captains of industry and all of these people.

Absolutely. Everybody wants to be that. Yeah. But in order for those people to exist, there has to be vast dysfunction. Yes. Right? And the pandemic that you're talking about when inflation went crazy. Yes.

Every single hyper rich guy that we know got richer. Got richer. 100%. So then what I would say then to that. Yep. is actual checks and balances on that and providing opportunities for growth bottom up means that maybe you get some people that are actually way

less hyper wealthy, but you get less people that are either forced to live off the system. I don't know who those people are, but forced to live off the system. And then secondly, not having anything, right? Because what we're seeing, what's really to me, and I'm not going to go on. But what's really to me that's unattainable is what you can have

to me is a system where 0.1% of the population has 50% of the wealth and 1% of the population has 90% of it. That is untenable. The question is, how do you undo that? Do you undo that with vast, unchecked deregulation

and capitalism? Or do you do that by providing checks on that type of capitalism, oversight on that type of capitalism, while also infusing and investing into the people who really make the country work. That to me is like the vision of, when you ask people, the vision of society,

like which one do you believe in? Yeah. So we're essentially saying the same thing, the whole numbers thing. We're saying the same thing. But my point is, though, I don't, they're, how do you do that? I don't, I don't want to say it doesn't matter.

But there's no incentive to do that. It's by design. Like, you don't think that's by design? Sure. It is, but are you okay with the design of it? No. And then the question is, then how do you, or to your point with the Republican Party, doesn't seem to be wanting to do anything too comprehensive, to change it?

Am I, we're not jumping animal you while. You don't? I'm asking. No. I feel like, I'm saying, do you do that with a tax cut for those people at the top, believing that if they make more money, then somehow the people at the bottom will benefit. I don't know.

I can't answer that. I don't know. But I do, I want to go back to something you said, though. What did you call it? Gangster capitalism. Gangster capitalism. I have another word. I'm wondering if this is the same.

Okay. I call it corporate genocide. And I think that there is, I think there is a reason that rap music is the way it is. I think there's a reason we keep seeing movies about slavery. I think there is, oh, is this too much now? No, I like this. Okay. Okay.

Dr. Umar. No, it's not. I think that it is, no, you have to remember. I've lived, I've lived on both sides of wealth and poverty. Right. I've lived in two different countries. I have a breadth of life experience. I've been through a lot of shit.

I swear? Yes. Oh. As much as you want. Okay. I don't usually swear about it. You brought it out of me now. I have a very vast.

life experience. I think that that is all done on purpose. I think there is, because if you control, you control the media, you control people's minds, you control the power, okay? I think there is a conscious, intentional effort

to keep black people by whom? Okay. So, I don't know. Okay. I don't know what is. But but as long as we only care about diamonds and girls, and by cars and blah, blah, blah, no, we follow me here.

We're not going to assemble. We're not going to reach our full potential. And we're not going to, we're not going to become an entity that cares more about creating than being the consumers. Do you think that that's very quick, last question for me, what you're talking about right now? Do you think that that's a cultural issue, as in that's somehow ingrained itself into black American culture? Or do you think that that is, give you an example of something? You remember the show to Beverly Hillbillies? This is a completely out of good old old.

You remember that show? Yeah. All right, so Jed is shooting. Yeah. Right? He's on his land. He's shooting. He shoots, oil pops out of the land.

What does Jed do? immediately Jed gets access to money and he goes, oh my God, I'm going to move to Beverly Hills. He's going to have the concrete pond. He's going to do all of that stuff. Because in Jed's mind and in somebody from Arkansas or whatever and whatever, like the idea of the American dream is to buy things that rich and powerful Americans have. Now, let's say you have a group of people who have throughout their entire time in America,

never, not once been lazy. Never. It's like a lie, right? And throughout the entire time that they're here, they've worked and they've worked and they've worked and they've worked and they've worked and they've worked. And the only thing they've ever been sold to justify any of the things that have happened to them or any of the situations that they've been in is that America is a place where you can get ahead. Yeah.

Right? there was a time when there was a lot of great black Americans who wanted to educate black America on society. X. King, Carmichael, Huey, Ella Baker, Fannie Lou Hamer, all of these people, Megahevers, all of these people. And American society at large said no. They said no. They killed up all of those people and they put them in jail. And Noah replaced those people. Be Like Mike and hip hop. Two things that are both corporate entities. Yep.

So this is what I would say. Okay. It's not a cultural issue with those people. It is, in my opinion, so it's not that black people have decided that in some kind of way they would rather have diamonds than education. This is all we want. Yeah. That's not what happened. Right.

What happened was there's an intentional effort on behalf of America. to do that. The question is, how do you beat it? Do you beat it with, like, Donald Trump? Oh, the guy who is like, the guy who's actually the mouthpiece for almost everything that we're talking about, do you beat it with him?

I don't know that you beat it with the Democrats. You, to me, you beat it with solidarity, but if we're going to talk about, like, why things the way they are, like, would you be in favor of slavery reparations, Would you be in favor of? I actually would be in favor of that because... Hey, I tell you straight up, you're a leftist, man.

I don't know why you're cosplaying. She said she's going to be doing. I said she's going to be kidding. She said I don't know who you're going to vote for it. I said I'm topic into, I mean, it depends on the topic. Right. But you can't, but let me tell you one other thing to you is I want to get this point out. I, another thing I really dislike is you're black.

You have to vote for Kamala. You're black. You have to vote Democrat. But the narrative out there, I'm like, it's so damaging. Like, you got to stop doing that. The fact that people think that like all black people have to, oh, I just said black again, man, black people. You're with us?

But I'm saying. But I'm saying, but I'm just, I say biracial when I'm referencing being adopted. That's when I talk about it. You say biracial when you're around white people? No, I don't. No, I've actually never heard you really say it unless you're talking about. I only say it. It goes with my history of being adopted.

Otherwise, I just say, like, I'm black, I'm black. In America, but that's, again, it's an American construct. That's another day. I'm coming back. I don't like when they think you're black, you guys all have to think the same. You guys all have to vote the same. It's like, we're not all the same. And it's like, and I truly feel like this goes back to like, this goes back to like Jim Crow stuff.

you know what I mean? Like, again, when you're talking about how do you change that and certain things were done intentionally, like, Jim Crow, that is all, it still affects us today, you guys. That is my point. Like, we were taught to fight with each other. Your hair is better than mine. You're lighter than me.

You get more advantages, blah, blah, blah. And we still perpetuate that stuff as a culture. Those are the things that keep holding us down. And when I moved here, let me tell you this. When I moved here, that was one of the first things I noticed. I was like, there is so much, there is so much, the frequency around certain things can be so low. And the, like, the, the, what is the word? Just like the, the only issue I have is that you're making a cultural indictment rather than a systemic one.

Right? So when you say, so. Because I think that what you're saying is systemic. I'm just pointing out something that the Democratic Party does that I, don't like. Can I just say that that's an old, I really think it's an old narrative of you're black and this is what you have to vote. I think in this day and age, these last eight years of what we've been through, it is more of anti-Trump than it is. Oh, I understand that. Then it is, you have to vote for Democrat because you're black. I think that narrative's changing. People

don't really think that's... Really? I think people still feel that way. I'm not saying that there are people that feel that. I just don't think that is an overarching feeling. I think people really pay attention to the things that they want and what they need from their politicians. I do. I I don't. I think people still very much vote on race and they think I'm black. I have to vote. Well, I will agree with that. I will say this. I'll say that like if for what we just, for what we just talked about.

Yeah. And we have to kind of wrap things up. But for what we just talked about, I just don't see any way you could vote for the Republicans. Same. I mean, I mean, just with your, with your, with your, with your world. By the way, vote for whoever you want, vote for you guys want to vote for Donald Trump. That's fine. Do your thing.

the whole the country will end but then you'll be able to laugh at you. So who are you voting for then? I'm voting for Kamala Harris. Okay. I voted for Kamala Harris

but the only reason why I'm voting for Kamala Harris I'm voting for Kamala Harris because there are policy reasons definitely too but I also vote with who you can organize with. Like I can't see myself organizing or being with

Donald Trump and his people because these are the same people who, so everything that we just talked about has a historical context to it. And we did say a lot of the same things. We did. But how are you going to be able to look at things with a historical context, through a historical lens if that history is illegal?

If books on that history are banned. Oh, yeah. If that history is being whitewashed. Yeah. We have to be able to have an open and honest conversation about race and culture in America. Yep. And that side's not willing to have the conversation. And I 100% agree with that.

And again, that is one of the issues that I am left on. Yeah. But then I also, I don't want World War III. Okay. I don't want our borders to be wide open like they are. Because there are organized gangs that are here causing a lot of, a lot of havoc. And that's a reality, whether people want to admit it or not. It's a reality.

So, and, you know, I came to this country, like, as an immigrant. Right. I know how hard it is, but I did it the legit way. So it's like, again, so that those are issues that I'm on the right with. And you think Democrats want an open border? It's been open. Right. It's been open.

Like it's, and, you know, yeah. But like, once it, I want safety. I want safety too. And by the way, the number one way to have safety to me. Because what you're talking, the number one way to have safety to me is to invest into people. Agreed.

Agreed. But I'd say something here, Anna. There is a belief by some that there is a cultural component to crime and that that cultural component has to be checked that the police aren't there to serve and protect that the police are there to protect white money from black criminals

and part of that narrative gets shaped by the brown people coming across the border to kill you the niggas from South Central LA from California. Oh, don't say that word. Yeah, right. No, we don't say that word.

No, no, no, no, no. No, no. You don't say it, okay? I made my husband's stuff saying You don't say I'm South Van Roos, nigger But the narrative is that We're protecting one group of people

From another group of people When the reality is this I'll end on this Lady of North Carolina told me this If you walked by a lake Right You walked by a lake And there was a fish dead in the lake

Like one fish turned belly up in the lake You would say Oh what's wrong with that fish but if you walked by a lake and there were 300 fish dead in the lake, what would you say? What happened to the, what happened to all the fish?

So the water, the water, there's something in the water. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You'd say what's wrong with that lake? Yeah. So if you consistently see a group of people based upon socioeconomic issues, right, that are in disadvantaged situations,

then you have to ask yourself what are the conditions that those people are living under? Of course. And then you'd have to ask yourself what's the best way to address those concerns? And that's the conversation that I want people to have.

If somebody wants to make the case to me that charter schools are a better form of education than funding public education, let's have the conversation. If someone wants to have a conversation with me that giving the police an $8 billion budget is a better option than... I do not agree with defunding the police, though.

Yeah. Everybody says that it sounds good until you need them. No, you need police, but... We need them. You need... I'm not saying you don't need police, but do the police need tanks? I sure hope not. Right.

So then maybe we take some of the tank and drone money and put it back into the community. For sure. Well, that's defunding. That's defunding. That's defunding. That is exactly what defunding the police means. We talk about the wording of it, but that's exactly what I'm not saying we don't need police. We need well-trained police and we need oversight on the police budget, but do the police need tanks and drones?

So it has nothing to do with reducing their numbers? No, not in my opinion. It has about reallocating the money and having the right person go address certain needs. These are the questions. Do you want, if I say you have $8 billion, right? And you have a community and you have a city. And you say, okay, we're going to give $6 billion to the police and then $2 billion to the people. Well, you're ensuring almost that the problems that the police deal with are going to exist in perpetuity.

Now, if you tell me that they need $4 billion, that they need $3 billion, I'm telling you that I would rather build a school than a police station. Okay. That's all I'm saying. I would rather fund a school than a police station. Yeah. Because I think if you, right now, of everything that we're talking about, if we invested into early, head start and programs like that, those are some of the most stark indicators of what will happen in somebody's life vis-a-vis crime. So why can't we just fund it? Just fund it. You know what we

could also do to get more funding? What? We could start giving people better food so people didn't get sick and we wouldn't have to allocate so much money to health care. I agree. I'm just saying, like it's like it doesn't have to be a police versus public education discussion. There are so many other areas that the government has, that can pull resources from by fixing some of the core issues. And I'm just saying like, we're not even looking at some of those issues or why they happen and why they are allowed to happen. I'm just like, I'm just saying, you know what I mean? That's why when I talk to you guys about agendas, I'm like, it's on purpose. Like, we have a sick care model. They want us to be sick so that,

health care can make tons and tons of money. So fix that. Then there's your funding for the public schools. They want public schools to be bad so that people don't get good education so you can control people's mind. So you have a low frequency. It's all by design. I'm just,

I, you know what? We're saying this. I agree. I just, I definitely agree with you. And I think that there's so much common ground. But what I,

I think that out of a conversation like this, what the next thing that happens is we go, okay, where's the policy? Who's going to do that? Between the two, who's going to do that? Is that what you're saying? Maybe not even between the two. Because when I say between the two, there's no political class that is going to come in and save Black America. That's not what's going to happen. The question is, who do we have more real estate with? And that's a fair question to ask. And by the way, I'm not asking for, I'm just saying, who do we have more?

or real estate. No, I get it. Here's another question for you, though. Or a statement, rather. The best predictor of future action is past action, right? So I'm, I and again, not picking aside, but I'm like,

why haven't some of these things been done then? Well, they have been. I mean, they have, like, so this is what I would say. I think white supremacy is a system that exists on both sides of the political aisle, right? I just think that that's the way it is. what I will say is this, though, is that since there's been a shift in the black community to being Democrats, you have seen things directly addressed led by some of the most

influential black thinkers in American history, right? So you've seen an issue of like black people not being citizens and not having voting rights and not having civil rights. And you've seen essentially one political wing of American politics address that. And so let's put that to the side. So let's forget about voting rights and civil rights and all of that. You've seen one side of it actually try to undo some of it. So like actually go, okay, well, if you talk about Shelby versus Holder in 2013,

you're talking about like addressing the Voting Rights Act and like reeling some of it back. You're talking about like addressing affirmative action, addressing things like that and taking some of it back. Like you've seen one side make a very deliberate effort to say, actually the things that you said that you need it and the safeguards for you having them, you actually don't need that stuff. Let's get rid of it. And so the only thing that I would ask then is we could talk about whether or not anyone has ever addressed economic inequality in the black community. I don't think that anyone really ever has. No, I don't. I agree.

but I do think that there is a base, because I will make a cultural distinction, particularly on the right, and that base don't want a nigga to have shit. And when I, and when I, and let me tell you why I say that. The only reason why I say that is because why are you making it harder for us to vote?

Why are you basically outlawing our history? Why, if, if everything in America is about like, understanding your fellow man and being there for them, why are you trying to put the Black American experience like through a pinhole? You know why I think I think because they're trying to avoid one day paying reparations.

Okay. I agree. Well, if they don't want to pay reparations. Look, my thing is if you get rid of the history, then as generations go on, it's going to be diluted down, it's going to be forgotten about, and it will never actually happen.

Do you think reparations should happen? Absolutely. Anna Marie, you and you with me. We didn't even talk about some of the other controversial things that you've said, but we got to get you on. That was a longer conversation we thought, but it was a great conversation. We happy that you joined us today, seriously. It's so fun, you guys.

I love it. Thank you guys for having me. Thank you for being here. Anna, Van. I said Anna, it's just saying. It's not like Anne-Marie. That's Anna Marie-Wallie. Thank you for joining us today, Ohio.

All right. All right. All right. I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Bye guys.