Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Draymond Green’s Impulse Control, and Awaiting the Jonathan Majors Verdict

Episode Date: December 15, 2023

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay react to the latest act of violence from Golden State forward Draymond Green (19:18), before discussing the end of DEI programs in Oklahoma (32:47) and the latest out of the Jonathan Majors trial (52:08). Then a chat on Christian BBLs (1:06:27), and Van addresses a post from Reddit (1:18:53). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Mr. Bucket. Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Harlein is on and Zat Van Lake and Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. It's a you band. It's Bucket Hat Fridays. It's you. It's Van Leads and Jr. with the bucket hat.

Yeah. Can be honest? I don't like it. Well, I got the bucket hat from, I went to hot water cornbread, which is a black event out there. Do you know what it is, Rachel? It's in L.A. It's in L.A.

Hot water, cornbread. Did they do this multiple times? Because I swear that they had this like a couple of months ago. They did it multiple times. It was Charles's, first was Charles's first weekend in L.A. So I took them out to Hot Water Cornbread.

Black vendors, black party. And I met a lot of people, a lot of vendors out there that were like, hey, we love you. Um, and we want to give you stuff. And of course, here's the problem, guys. If you tell me you want to give me stuff, I'm always going to say I want to buy it. Because I want to support you. Sure.

I can't remember the name of this vendor, but this hat says gratitude is a must. It's on the side there. You can look. Um, and so I got to. from him so I'm wearing the bucket hat. I also went these other guys they were called like not sneakers or more than sneakers or something like that

and I I bought some stuff from them a Kobe shirt and then the Kobe shirt that I had on Monday. Oh yeah yeah you're wearing Kobe shirt. So the bucket hat right here is going to be bucket hat Wednesdays and a bucket hat Fridays and also I'll tell you something else about the book hat. I'm going to wear the bucket hat also to track my weight loss

because right now I look like it looks like a fucking chocolate covered almond with a bucket hat on top of it. But as my face thins out, I bet the bucket hat looks better. Yeah. It's, you know, that's, I love that you took Charles out.

Love the story of you supporting vendors. Despite that story, I'm still not changing my stance. I like bucket hats. I'm just like, does not liking this bucket hat on you. It's like giving like thimble. Yeah.

I mean, you're negative. It's just, it's just too small for your head. And I say this from, one big-headed person to another. Our heads are big in different ways. They're big in different ways. They're big in different ways.

Stop. Don't even do that. This is, I have a big forehead. You have a big head. Yeah, I'm not saying I definitely have a big head, but you have a prominent head. Well, and that's the difference. I can tell you right now, I would know not to make my head look bigger with that at all. To me, this head makes, to me, the hat makes my head look smaller.

I like to take a pole. I'd like to take a poll. Donny Ashley. Like to take a poll. Oh, my God. What the hell is going on with Rachel? The podcast has just started. Donny Ashley.

Jesus. Pause. Bigger or smaller with the hat. The hat is not bucking enough. The rim needs to be like bigger. Yeah. Donnie's on it. They did worse than me.

They did worse than me. You know, I mean, look, here's the situation with all of you. What I, I give all of you support. And the only thing I ask for is support in return. And I don't get it. Please. I don't get it from Quirk Queen.

I don't get it from Sweet Booty. I don't get it from you, Rachel. I don't get support. Please. Right now, I'm trying something. And you guys are, it, it, Rachel, do I, you know what? Do you what? Do you what?

Do you give me shit? I'm going to give me a hard time? Absolutely. I'm going to start, I'm going to start commenting on your hands. You do it all the time. What's new? No. You know what's funny?

You constantly. What's the last time you hit me with? It's funny. What's the last time you hit me with a joke and I responded? Long back. Long back. Now with me being vulnerable. I've started, I've started to just say, you know what?

I'm going to participate in the fuckery too. Because you're constantly giving me shit. And I just let it go. And I'm like, you know what? Two can play this game. So let's. play, man. Let's play. Let's play. Come on. Let's play. I'm into it. You know what?

And by the way, I just want to make sure everybody knows that this is what we call this makes Rachel an official member of the player proof crew. Because we have what's called The Drive. I think we've talked about this before. I don't think so. We have. Oh, yeah. So in Baton Rouge,

when you Jones in with somebody, when you're cooking somebody, whatever it is, roasting somebody, we call it putting a drive on. So like, that nigga, I'm put the drive on the nigger, man. We're going to put that drive on the nigger. You know what I'm saying?

We put the drive on. That's what we put, put the drive on. You put the wheel in your back, whatever. So in the crew, the drive is like really, really, really a big deal. Because we've had legendary drive sessions. There was a trip from Baton Rouge to Memphis where Ian and Gino just went. I mean, talking about niggas girlfriends and all kinds. It was a legendary drive session.

Always does with- We will not go too far. No, you're a part of the crew now. The drive is the drive. That's it. Okay. So I guess we just put on the gas. The drive.

The drive is the drive. Now it's part of the drive session. And what I don't want to hear from anybody listen to this podcast is critiques on the drive session. When we're driving, we're doing the drive. And anybody that comes on this podcast as a guest, now you're in the drive. No, but you know what? All right.

Well, calm down. Calm down. What if I flip it up? What if I flip it up? Oh, it's even better when I flip it up. I agree. It's even better when I flip it up. It's better.

It's better when it gets flipped up. Oh, shit. I'm on my fucking Dwayne Wayne, your Dwayne Wayne shit. No. It's like, this is about to take flip. life and it's it's not. My hat right now is fully

Arrested Development. Take me to another Oh no. That's actually. Oh wait. Which one is that? That's Tennessee. That's correct.

That's correct. They did be Tennessee. That's correct. Take me to another land. Where's speech? Speech was that nigger. That's not his name. What happened to speech?

Is that his name? From arrest. From arrest development? Yeah. Wait. What's the main guy's name? It's not speech. Speech.

Yeah. No. Is it, Johnny? No, it's not. Everyday people. Is it? See? Speech.

That big-ass head, there ain't no brains it. Speech got a big forehead, too. Speech got a huge forehead. Man, my dad didn't like that one song. He didn't like everyday people because speech said, my dad didn't like it. I love that song. I love that song. That's like one of my happy songs.

So speech said, he said a group of brothers started bugging out drinking their 40 ounce going to nigger out and my dad just did not like that he's like he knows this weird ass my dad used to say this weird ass motherfucker got a lot of white people listening to him and he's going to talk about going to nigger out wondering what the fuck that's posing me because a lot of the rest of the

development's fan base was white. It wasn't really? They had a lot of white fan. Yeah. They were so early 90s I wasn't I mean I knew songs but I didn't know their fan base. Geez, I didn't know that. Okay, I've kind of with you dad on that one. I'm kind of with you dad. They had a diverse fan base.

Like, Arrested Velma was great. No. Tennessee, they had everyday people. What was the other thing? Mr. Wendell, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, Mr.

How do you even remember this? This was my time. I really liked Arrested Development. At least their popular songs, but clearly not enough that I didn't remember his name was speech. I really thought it was something else. Um, wait, there was something I was going to say that you said about, oh, no, yeah, no, I'm just with your dad because if they had a white fan base, the fact that in that song, that there was ad libs after an emphasis after each one. So when they said the nigger out, then it was repeated. And I just can't imagine a white, you know what I mean? The nigger out. The nigger out.

It's the same thing. That's right. And really, all of these rappers, all of these rappers have white fan bases and they did. I mean, daddy was just embarrassed. because he said the nigger route, but hip hop has white fan bases. We say nigger, nigger, we say all of this stuff. We give a race secrets. We do all the whole thing.

It's like, there's one thing we're good at is sharing our culture with people who don't be talking about us. That's kind of a thing. Okay, look, we're going to get into the show. Here's the thing, Rachel.

I want to talk about something real quick. On last Tuesday show, we had a little conversation about black Christian church, the black Christian church. Post the clip and people got to talk. Okay. I want to make sure that I clarify what I meant about what I was saying. I said again.

Black people give $11.5 billion to the church. Okay. The question that I'm asking is very simple. I'm not indicting Christianity. I'm not indicting church as a structure. What I'm asking is a structure that's built that firmly and has been that firmly entrenched into the black American cultural experience. I'm asking if that structure is keeping in lockstep with the contemporary needs of

black Americans. I've spoken to a lot of great people. And I really do appreciate all the dialogue that I've had, a lot of great people. And I'm looking forward to having a conversation about this with different representatives of the black church, people who are doing the work in the black church. I had a fantastic conversation this morning. I'm going to talk a little bit about the gentleman I spoke to from Atlanta. But the question is, $11.5 billion. Is there enough coming back from the church for that type of investment? And I'll just say again, the church as an institution

and an organization. I know that there's not a board of black church leaders. I'm sure there's some sort of board. They have different pastor boards all over the place, but there's not one place that you can write in or call in to the black church. It's not like Congress, per se. But it is a cultural entity that's been around for a long time.

And I think in all of different aspects of black life, what we should be asking is what we're getting back for our loyalty. for our allegiance, for our dollars, for our political allegiance, for all of that stuff. And if I can ask that to the Democrats, I can ask that of the church. So when I say this, I'm talking about is the church help promote? And some of this stuff is going to sound odd, and maybe I'm off. Is the church on the forefront of

helping kids get into STEM? Is the church dealing with economic issues in these communities? Is the church advocating for legislation in different places that affect black people? Are we seeing jobs programs, which some of these churches are doing it. Are we seeing political education being given in the church? Because in the past, what the black church has done, which it is looked at the circumstances of its constituency, its parishioners, its members, and it's addressed those, not just

in small charitable ways, like giving back and feeding people and some of the things that I mentioned, but also in systemic ways. Like, hey, Abernathy King, all these things. different people, we're going to get together and make political and social change for the people that attend our churches and for black people writ large. And so what I'm saying now is that it's not like the problems that black people face in America have gone away. They're just different. They're not about, I mean, they still kind of are about voting rights and equal citizenry and all those things like civil rights was actually addressing. Now we're talking about systemic, economic,

political, and also literacy issues that exist in the community. And what I'm saying is for $11.5 billion and for people that are going to tell you how you should live your life, the songs that you should be dancing to, what you should do in your leisure time, and all of that. And I was triggered by the goddamn game because I like to play the game. All of that stuff, I'm just saying there should be something coming back from that. And I want to challenge church leaders and people who attend different churches. and I heard from a lot of people that attend Transformation Church,

and I want to shout out Michael Todd, because everyone that talked to me, despite some of the antics that he pulls on TikTok or social media, everyone that responded to me said, hey, this is one of the churches that is doing that type of stuff that is getting it right. What I want to make sure is that we're not losing that, that it hasn't become another entity that black people support

in large, large, large swaths, that the only thing they get back is criticism and calls for more support. So that was my only thing. No, I think that's all well said. And I think that I definitely believe that there are churches doing that. A lot of churches do that. I feel like the church that I'm affiliated with in Dallas does that. And I know that because I pay attention to the things and the programs that they put out in the community.

I've seen it. Every single one of those things that you mentioned, I've seen them do that. So there are definitely our churches that do that. I think that the danger is it's easy to look at someone and see all the pomp and circumstance that they're displaying and then not seeing and then seeing church members that are struggling. And that's the issue. It's hard for me. And I think I said this last podcast. It's hard for me to see pastors with private planes and helicopters and not get caught up in some of that and see how that's,

problematic. I'm not saying that they should suffer and not receive any type of income, but I don't want to see the flare at the same time. That's hard for me to understand and reason and understanding Christian values how that coincides with it. So that's what I think, too, is kind of what you were saying to last week. And I also want to say that the danger in a pastor like a Michael Todd going viral and people only seeing a clip, they will judge you from just a person. that. They don't, they might not do the research to see what the church is doing there. They don't know the history of it. They didn't hear the whole sermon. And so even though I understand the wanting to connect to another generation and preach the word, the problem is when it only comes

in a minute and a half sound bite, it loses the meat of it. You know what I'm saying? I'm going to hear out the word, but it loses that. And I think that that's what happens in the sermon that you saw with Michael Todd. We talked about him before with the spitting in his brother's face or rubbing the spit in his brother's face. Things like that can be problematic and have the opposite effect

that's intended to from some of these pastors. I watched one video with Michael Todd. So you went down in Dark Hole. Where he was sitting down. I watched also these entire sermons because some of those sermons have really good messages in him. And like he was sitting down

and he had shit all over his face and he was watching something. And I thought it was about porn. I thought he had, he was making it seem like he had nutted in his face, like in his own face. And I was like, what the fuck? But apparently it was about the fact that people are addicted to different things. And he was portraying somebody that had ice cream smitten all over their face. And, you know, I eat a lot of ice cream.

I can't think about any time where I eat the ice cream. So I say it's all over my goddamn face. Yeah. But I talked to Reverend John Ooki. Or what you Just Reverend John. Just Reverend John. We had a good conversation, bro.

Reverend John. We had a good conversation. I'm a, yeah, I'm going to, I'm a butcher your last name. This is a Nigerian brother. He is the former pastor of the Cornerstone Church in Atlanta. We spoke for an hour this morning. He was, um, is it Odaquia? Is it, what's it called?

O-U-C-O-C-A. Is it O-O-O-O-O, no, it's O-N-W-C-H-E. Pastor John. See how they took our heritage from us? This is, that name, that's my name. Let me see a little stuff like that. You talked to the man for an hour, and you don't know how to pronounce his name.

Well, he didn't, we didn't tell me his last name. What I do know is that he is the, the former pastor of the cornerstone church in Atlanta, and he talked to me at great length. He was one of the more pointed, He offered one of the more pointed criticisms of what I had to say. And I read the comments and then he DMed me. And then I went to the comments and he had a very strong perspective.

I had a very strong perspective. And I said, hey, just call me. Call me. We went back and forth. We talked this morning. And we talked about what he has done, what his group has done. It's not the biggest church in the world. I mean, it's 400 members.

It's a pretty big church. He's pastor to a bunch of different churches. and they've looked at not just helping people from a spiritual perspective, but also educating people on gaps in black ascension, like things we could be doing that we are not doing. He talks very specifically about the coffee company that they founded and how they actually had to create an industry for their parishioners to take part in because a lot of the people, even when they did jobs programs and different things to serve their community,

a lot of the people didn't have enough proximity to jobs to be able to take advantage of some of the skills that they learned. So, I mean, it is happening. I want to shout him out and shout out everything that they're doing down there. And when we do have this conversation about the black church, I offered him to be a part of it. And I hope that he takes us up on that. So that's it. Just to put a pin in that. A pin in it.

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See terms at fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash herms. Okay, obviously there are bigger deals than Draymond Green in the world right now. Obviously, we know that. But we got to talk about Draymond, man, and what the fuck is going on with Draymond, man? What the hell is going on with this guy? Are we speaking?

Go ahead. Yeah, watching the game Tuesday night, just so we say, Dremon reacted to a pedestrian file or pedestrian physical play? by Sunsener Yussef Nerkich by turning around and batting this nigger in his shit. Turn around and batted the shit out of Nurt.

In his shit, a 360 wind-up. He was thrown out of the game, Flagrant 2, which everyone saw coming, and he has been since suspended indefinitely from the NBA. We don't know how long the suspension is going to last. Dremont has obviously had run-ins with the league before for not physical play, but for downright dirty play. for, I think, five games earlier this season for a different incident.

Choke-old. I think the league is kind of coming down hard. Yeah, choke-hold. Choke-hold on Ruehobere. So I think the league is coming down pretty hard on Dremon right now and they're suspended him indefinitely. But like, what the fuck is going on?

Like, what's going on with Dremont Green, man? It's concerning. Why are we asking this question now? That's what I don't understand. Like, what's going on with Dremont? I heard Nerkich said that, you know, like he hopes he gets help. Kevin Durant said something along those same lines.

And it's like, this is not a one-off. Draymont Green has been like this. He's been in the League 11 seasons. I mean, his stuff is documented all the way back to 2013. So for the last 10 years, we've been seeing Draymond, elbow people in the neck, knee people in the head, stomp on their chest, kick them in the groin. What hasn't Draylon done other than four?

full-out tackling, having full-out fights and spill over into the audience. So why are we just now, 10 years later, saying, what is wrong with Dremont when we've been seeing this behavior? Dremont is constantly one of the top players with the most ejections or suspensions or fines every season. This has been a pattern for him. So it's a question to me, like, I mean, I'm never surprised when I see Dremont do something. I guess I'm more surprised. that he continues to get away with it. The fines, the suspensions, the objections don't seem to be landing in any kind of way or having any kind of effect on Draymond.

He continues to do it as we've seen him do for well over a decade at this point. So I think the NBA made the right call and maybe should have made it sooner. If not for the protection of other players, because Drayman seems to be so unpredictable with what he's going to do with his limbs or if there really is an issue with Draymond for the protection of Draymond. So he can get whatever he needs, whether it's counseling, whether it's anger management, whether it's a deeper issue. To me, he just, he's a, I personally believe he's a dirty player and he just tries to get

away with certain things by flelling his arms, as he said in this last press conference, to sell the call. I think he just throws his leg out, throws his arms out to get a foul, but to this disguise it as, oh, I was just selling a call or I was just, I lost control. So I'll tell you, in my opinion, what the difference is now, is that the shit is getting worse, man. I don't know how to explain it, but it's getting worse. It's just back to back.

So we had, we, no, to me, it's getting worse. I'll tell you why I say that. There's a couple of things. There's a frustration that's built in, I think, right now with the pretty obvious writing on the wall that the Warriors Dynasty is coming to an end. You know, everybody's older.

The younger guys haven't quite panned out when you're talking about Moody and Kaminga. They haven't panned out. And Clay is just really having trouble getting back on track right now. He's just not the same. Clay Thompson. And I think that is

exacerbating Jemann's behavior a little bit. Now, remember now we're talking about some of the stuff that he's doing a lot of the other things that you saw Dremont do to me they were dirty within the context of the game take a little extra shot

a lot of players do that Chris Paul Chris Paul will get you in your nuts like Dylan Brooks will do a little dirty shit a lot of players take that little extra competitive advantage I mean we've seen that from other guys right I think some of the stuff that I've seen from Dremont

recently and we're going to go back to punching the shit out of Jordan Poole, just knocking the shit out of him. Then a straight up chokehold, a straight up chokehold on Rudy Gaubert, which was funny as shit, to pull Rudy Gaubert away. And then turning around and obviously flailing

and socking the shit out of Nurt, the question starts to become, like, Dremont, how far is this going to go? And I think the reason why the league, jumped in right now is because I think they saw this snowballing. I mean, you can watch a full rundown, a full video of all of his dirty plays before, and they're dirty. They're definitely dirty. He definitely takes liberties. He definitely does all of this stuff. But I think now it's, it's so blatant and so out there that it looks like Draymond Green is having a nervous breakdown.

It looks like some kind of way he's unraveling. It does. And by the way, and I'm not the only one that feels this way. A lot of people feel this way. and obviously the league feels this way because people are saying right now that this is the point where they are saying enough is enough with them. In definite suspension, I don't know how long it's going to last.

I'm not sure how long it's going to last, but he seems to be coming apart, man. And then he apologized. So Draymond Green apologized. The apology, I want to get a Rachel Lindsay apology rating on. this. He said, I'm not one to apologize, but I do apologize. He says,

this is transfer. He was pulling in my hip and I was swinging away to sell the call. I made contact with him. As you know, I'm not one to apologize for things I meant to do, but I do apologize to Yusuf because I didn't intend to hit him. I sell calls with my arms. I don't fall to sell a call. I don't.

I'm not a flopper. So I was selling the call because he was grabbing me and pulling my hip back. So I spun away and unfortunately I hit him. And so like I said, I apologize to Yusuf because I didn't intend to hit him. Give me a rating. That's true.

I just don't believe him. I don't believe him. I feel like he's apologizing because he knew like this is bad. If you go back and look at the replay, there's minimal contact. He's not pulling on his hip. He's not doing anything to even warrant

needing to sell the call. There wasn't necessary for what was going on between him in that instance. It wasn't necessary. And when you look at it, he turned around and it clocked him. It was shocking. So I don't, it's hard for me to even rate this apology because I don't believe you.

You know, you saying I'm not willing to apologize, but I didn't mean to hit him like that. I was just trying to sell the call. You're apologizing, but you're not apologizing. Somebody's calling. Is that what you said? Yeah. Who, Draymond? No, somebody's not called.

No, it's, this is my homeboy, Ryan. We talked about this last night. Ryan, you're on the podcast. What did you say needs to happen to Draymond? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan. So you're saying that the only way that Dremont is going to learn is, nigga, what's you doing right now? Are you in the pen? No, I'm going to get so much. Oh. You're going to the mess hall to get some, you're in jail, you're incarcerated. Y'all, just let y'all know, Ryan has a checker pass.

Anyway. So, so, so, you say, the nigger need to whip Draymond ass. I mean, you know, she's my death. The only thing that's going to help you. You know, counter violence with more violence. Okay, that's enough. See, that's your deal.

Yeah, I don't know why you call Ryan. Cut that part out the podcast. Yeah, I don't know what you call Ryan. Love Ryan. Don't know what you called him. Yeah, I think, I think it's a little bit of an excuse to, say, I guess I'm just, I look at this as maybe there is something wrong with Draymond, but I don't look at it as like, man, he needs help, like something must be really going on.

I look at this as a culmination of you've gotten away with this for so long. You're just pushing the limit until you couldn't anymore. Until you couldn't anymore. Or he's just like a dirty player. No, come on now. There's something going on here. You can say, I just think the reason it looks like that is because in less than 30 days, we've seen the chokehold and the five games suspension.

And then you saw maybe someone 30 days. Sorry, I don't know if that's right. But in two months, you've seen the chokehold, the suspension of five games. And then you saw this. And they were both outrageous. And it's back to back. But literally, just last season, he stomped on in the playoffs, stomped on somebody's chest. I'm sorry.

even if it's been done before that is not an inherent part of the game. A chest stomp is not that. I'm sorry. People stomp, that is a part of the game now. It is. Okay. Well, it is.

Oh, somebody's on the ground and you just stomp on their chest? I understand if like your hand flies back and you hit somebody in the groin. Like I understand like, oh, we're all fighting under the, to get the rebound. It's something like that happens. But nobody was around and he just stopped on his chest. that happens all the time. It doesn't make it okay. So what I'm saying is dirty play happens.

Dirty play happens. Dennis Robman, all different types of people. Like dirty play happens. Like some of the best John Stockton, incredibly dirty player. You're doing the 90s. Dirty play happens. I think everybody can say that 90s basketball is not the basketball that's played today. The rules are way more strict.

The refs are way more on top of it. The way they played in the 90s, we don't see that anymore. If this was the 90s, I would be like, yeah, that's what they do. Like, Gary Payton and them? I mean, dirty play, but there's still more players that do. My thing is, for Draymond, the incidents are becoming so frequent. And so even punching your teammate in the phase happens. I mean, that happens at NBA practices.

Bobby Portis broke Meritix face. He broke his face. He said he called me inward. Who knows? But all I'm saying is this. I really feel like and if you watch the Warriors play I really feel like something

is unraveling with Draymond Green I'm just being for real Well it's not okay So do you agree with the suspension? I think he should be suspended for a long time I think that Draymond Green should be suspended until and that's what they said Like there are a bunch of conditions

that apparently he has to meet before he is allowed back. He's going to be required to meet certain league and team conditions before he returns to play. And one of them needs to be, like, Tramon Green needs to be evaluated. I'm telling you something.

I said this on Beaumani's podcast, and shout out to Bo and Sean for having me. But it's not like when you're competing in sports and when you're on the court and when you're doing that you don't want to do some of these things. Of course you do. There's a little impulse thing that flashes in somebody's head. And when you go,

I want to turn around and do this and then you stop. Whatever's happening in Draymond Green's head, that impulse control, it's completely disintegrated. It's gone. Like, he's done. It's out of here. It's over.

Tramon Green is fraying before our eyes. And I think the fact that the warriors are struggling is making it worse. It's making it worse. He's taking that on. And I really feel. like he could really seriously hurt somebody in the court, man. Like, I'm from a row.

He has. Yes. It's only a matter of time before something like that happens. So I agree with the league's decision. Maybe it should have happened sooner. Thankfully, nobody was hurt to the point where, you know, like they can no longer play the game,

but it'll be interesting to see what happens next, what they do decide, what he does exactly have to complete to join the league. And I'm interested to hearing his response since the suspension. Do you know what negative recruiting is? No. So in college football, college sports,

negative recruiting is, let's say we have Rachel Lindsay who could have gone to the Olympics. In track, absolutely. Which you said. Rachel to the Olympics and track is Van is to Van playing basketball. but I've never said. Collegially. I'm clearly joking. I don't really believe.

I don't really believe I was, I joke and say that my shin splints ended my Olympic career. I'm kidding. I don't think that you are. I promise you I know. We've had this conversation before. And Rachel, I think that you think, and by the way, I don't want to take away

that you could, that you feel like you could have gone to Olympics, talk your shit, but I just want to let you know. If I had ever said that I could legitimately have gone to the NBA, NFL, major hockey, whatever, everybody would be cooking me in the comments and everyone would be cooking me,

but they let you get away with saying that you could have been one of the fastest women in the world. But go ahead. Bullshit, you mean it. Okay, so negative recruiting is this. Let's say Rachel Lindsay was going to go to Texas, and I was recruiting Rachel Lindsay to Oklahoma,

which I know that you would never go there, but let's say this. Negative recruiting is, when I come into your living room, and I'm recruiting you, I'm not recruiting you selling Oklahoma. That's part of it.

But what I'm also doing is telling you bad things about Texas. So I'm also saying, hey, Steve Sarkozy, it's frowned upon. Okay? It's frowned upon. Steve Sarkisian is not going to be around.

They're going to fire Steve Sarkisian. You don't want to live in Austin, all of this stuff. Negative recruiting happens, but it's kind of like a taboo thing. You're not supposed to do it. It is, right? I don't think that that was not a part of it, but okay.

You hear coaches going back and forward going, these guys are negative recruiting us and these guys are doing this. And it happens. Right now, Texas A&M is going through a situation where they're experiencing a bunch of attrition. A lot of their guys are transferring, a lot of their commits are decommitting. They had a subpar C.

season again, they fired Jimbo Fisher. They brought in Mike Elko, a new coach. And so you're, you probably are getting some other coaches calling guys that are committed to Texas A&M or playing for Texas A&M going, hey, you want to get out of that dumpster fire before it takes your career down.

You know what I mean? So it's probably happening. So even though it's a frowned upon thing, I found a complete and total use for negative recruiting. And I think it should be done. The University of Oklahoma just recently put out this statement, okay, this statement. December 13, 2023, dear OU community, today Oklahoma's governor signed an executive order

eliminating offices of diversity, equity, and inclusion in all public higher education institutions in Oklahoma, including our own. The University of Oklahoma is from the office of the president. The University of Oklahoma is a football power coming into the SEC next year. Obviously, you guys' traditional rival. And now I was hoping to make a move and secure more national championships. Obviously, the Sooners have a bunch of Hosman trophy winners, a deep, deep, deep, deep football tradition. I could talk about guys, Baker Mayfield, Kyle Murray, Adrian Peterson, all kinds of

kinds of greats have played at the University of Oklahoma. If I am a coach and I am recruiting black players to come to an institution, I would use the fact that an institution doesn't have a diversity and inclusion initiative as part of its universal and educational ethos as a reason that black players should not go to the school. And this also would include whether or not my beloved LSU Tigers are doing enough as well. What we're about to see is a run on diversity and inclusion in colleges all over the country. We're going to see this, right? Because they're trying to take it away. They're trying to take away any practice that even acknowledges the situation that black Americans

have been in, the situations that black Americans are. are currently in and the situations that we will be in unless our history and our societal standing in America right now is examined in an intellectual way, an academic way. And if you can't do that at a college, then it's going to be very difficult to do it any other place in American society. And if you can't in a college say the diversity and inclusion are important. When you're building brains, I don't understand how you're going to be able to do it in the workforce. I don't understand how you're going to be able to do it anywhere else. And that's fine if they don't want to do that.

If they don't want to do it in Oklahoma, if they didn't want to do it in Louisiana, they don't want to do it in the Texas, if they don't want to do it in Florida too. But what you can't do, in my opinion, is then also have the lifeblood of your university which at a place like Oklahoma, at a place like Texas, at a place like LSU, at a place like Florida, at a place like SC,

well, actually, that's a really rich school. But the lifeblood of your school, be the football program, be young black athletes who are coming there making the university tens of millions of dollars. What you can't have

is those guys booing those universities, keeping them afloat, generating millions and millions and millions of dollars, funding all the other sports programs, having alumni that come from these sports programs, build buildings, and getting all this TV time, and making all this money through conference affiliations and bowl games and all that. You can't have that. And then at the same time, tell those players that they are not important enough to have

their condition, their standing, and their place in America. examined, taught about, and prioritized. You can't do it. So to me, if you are a recruit and you are thinking about going to Oklahoma, if I was another coach, I would definitely use the fact that Oklahoma doesn't care enough about your black ass to have a diversity and inclusion program at the school. And look, I understand that this came from the governor. and it's an executive order eliminating the office from the governor.

What I would want to know from that school or any other school where that happens is, what are you going to do to make sure that that type of curriculum, that type of engagement, that type of outreach is still prioritized at your school? Because what I don't see here is a pledge or an offer or a question from the university of Oklahoma or any of these other universities about how they are going to continue to strive to meet the needs

of the black people that come to their schools and the black people in the state even though the fact that that's what the governor's doing. So I'm telling you right now if it's me and these kinds of situations are coming out, you don't get a bunch of black guys running around making their school tens of millions of dollars

and playing the football and catching the football and throwing the football. Black players don't have to go to Oklahoma. there's other schools that they can go to. They can go to schools where DEI is prioritized and where they matter. They don't have to go to Oklahoma. They don't. They can go to other places that are having that.

So I would actually use this as a bargaining chip to get players in the door. Well, it's kind of like the HBCU argument in the sense that, you know, players going to these predominantly white universities institutions, over going to an HBCU where, you know, black people do matter more. Black people's, you know, needs and wants are catered to more. Like, you know that you're cared about in a way that you aren't necessarily going to get from a PWI. So it's like that same argument of, well, why choose that instead of going to an HBCU? And I think the problem is going to be trying to convince these players.

I understand everything that you said and it makes sense. and it would be great in a world if that type of negative recruiting actually impacted the player. Because the way the player is going to look at it is, well, they're offering me a scholarship and I'm diverse. They're not going to look at the bigger picture as of this is affecting my community and my people. They're going to look at it as like, well, I'm about to get mine. They're obviously being diverse with the football. Like I could just see it being small-minded in that way. And I can't even necessarily say I fault a player because you're asking them to look at the bigger picture

rather than look at what's how, yeah, rather than just focus on themselves and how this could benefit them. I will say that what Oklahoma is doing is not, they're not even the first. In July, there were 40 bills that were introduced in 22 states to place restrictions on DEI initiatives

in public colleges. Texas already, Texas, of course, it put out a statement. Their legislature was like, we're making this bold move. We're leading the nation in regards to making these changes. Texas has done it.

Now Oklahoma. North Carolina has done it. South Dakota's done it. Florida's done it. Tennessee has done it. It's going to be, it's already a trend. It's happening.

When Texas started it, everybody else followed. So I think what you're saying is amazing. And it would be great if these athletes, these student athletes could see it that way,

but I just don't see them looking at the bigger picture putting that over themselves. Yeah, I mean, maybe not. This is what I'll say a couple of things. Number one is the HBCU argument is a wholly different argument because the HBCUs just cannot compete

with the resources that you get at some of these other schools. It's just with the HBCU situation, we have to talk about, we have to talk about that not through a sports lens, in my opinion. We have to talk about that through the lens of, like, all the daily needs of the students being met, right? Because, you know, LSU, the school that I root for, I've said this before in the podcast,

has a $30 million dollar the locker room. The locker room is $30 million, right? Mike the Tiger, LSU's live mascot, lives in a $5 million habitat, a $5 million habitat, right? Southern University's endowment is now $9 million. If you look at that type of inequity, right? If you look at the school,

one school is working on a $9 million endowment, the school across town has a $5 million enclosure for the live mascot, right? The tiger matters more than the niggas. That's the fact. And I mean, that's just what it is. And I'm sure some LSU fans are going to be upset about that. But that's reality, right? And the football program brings a ton of money to LSU and a ton of money and notoriety to the state.

It might be the biggest thing that we got going besides, it definitely isn't in Baton Rouge, besides, you know, everything that they have going on down in the city. But what I would say is, so I would say to as far as the HBCU situation, you're probably not going to go to an HBCU if you have the opportunity to go to a school that's so much more resourced and you want to develop me on TV and get the money that comes with me in the NFL or the NBA and all of that other stuff. But I do think, though, is that we can have conversations that create the value the value in going to a school that is at least partly embracing the challenges that black people might have.

And I don't want to make the determination that none of these young athletes like care about their present or their future or anything like that. I think that what we're talking about is can we create the value through conversation, through outreach, through discussion, that if it's between two schools and, you know, when you're a top flight blue chipper, these things are at the margins, right? You're probably getting big time in an IL office. You're probably going to get a promise to play. You're probably going to get treatment by the coaches and whatever you need and the alumni. When you're one of those type of recruits, can we sell you on the value that the school that is more welcoming and more active with you and your community is a better place for you. And I think that we can do that. And it really wouldn't take that many athletes to flip

and say that that was the reason why they flipped or to make a decision and say that was the reason why they made the decision to change the dynamic. Really, if it was two or three five stars, If it was one five star that said, I didn't want to go to this school because they don't have DEI. Like with how rapid these fan bases are, I think it would make a difference. I think right away a conversation would be had.

And I really do think, like for these guys who the world is their oyster, they have the opportunity. I know it's a lot to ask for my 18-year-old kid, but they have the opportunity to look at what it is that they want out of the world and decide whether or not these schools give a fuck about them.

that because after you're done playing football, you're still going to be black. You're still going to be black. After these people have used your knees and your ankles, and after you've got CTE, and after your rotator cuff is torn, and after all of these 14, 15 surgeries in, when you walk away from it and you don't run that 404 no more, your skin is still going to be black. Yeah. And the question is, do you care about it? And can we do something to make them care? I don't know. I don't know. I don't. I don't know. I don't. think this would be it, but I would love to see it. I mean, they will see.

You just don't want to do it because, you know, that Texas is out. Maybe it's going to start going up. But Texas is out, Oklahoma, too. You know what I'm saying? Texas is, it's, oh- Just because Louisiana is coming. Please. I'm sure it is.

Sure it is. But we're going to talk about it. And when it, when it does happen, we're going to talk about it. We're going to talk about it. And I'm going to hold LSU and other schools accountable. It might be like that already. I haven't even looked into it. news just broke

Navy federal credit union is not lending to niggas like talking about it just came across the largest credit union in the U.S. has the widest disparity between mortgage approval rates between white and black borrowers

of any major lender. Damn, Larry Elder. Man, what happened to Larry, man? He crawled back into his hole. No. Do I miss Larry? You don't miss him? Like we had such a moment with him.

It's like it's almost like Larry could have been the third mic on the show. Can you imagine higher learning with Rachel Van and Larry? No, I can't imagine. What would be the show? Why? We wouldn't talk. We would argue the entire time. We would argue.

That's what he wanted. I wanted to. You wanted to. You wanted to argue just a little bit. Just a little bit. Nah. I thought I was going to come away with another father figure. I thought.

I thought that Larry, I have two blackmail, I have three blackmail father figures right now. Three. You know, now that I lost my dad, who's still my spiritual father figure. It's Jason Wilson up in Detroit, Cave of Adelam.

Is the judge, even though he don't fuck with me when I come to Dallas. He don't want to take the time to raise his son. And then I was hoping that the third one would be Larry Eldon. I was hoping that I could learn something from Larry. I was going to get him the chance of fatherhood. Okay, I'm sorry. This episode is brought to by WeatherTech.

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This episode is brought to you by Ulta Beauty. Have you left holiday gifting until the last minute? I feel like Van, you're that person. I feel like you've done that. I know I'm that person, but I'm going to go ahead and put that on you too, so I'm not alone. Are you that person?

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Because I can give you some suggestions. I mean, you could, you know what you could do? You could better than that. You can actually buy them and then I'll pay you back. Actually, I feel like, you know. Kalika and I are very similar. I've said it before. We have the same birthday. We think alike. So I feel like we like the same things. But if I was going to give you a suggestion, should I not have time to do the shopping for myself, I would suggest you go to Ulta Beauty and get some of those staple products like a good makeup brush or a good, you know, like eye shadow palette or a good lip gloss or. some good skin care products. Glika has amazing skin. So maybe I should be asking her

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And with same-day pickup or delivery, Alta Beauty makes it easy to avoid all the lines. Heads of your local Ulta Beauty store, buy online and pick-up and store, or shop in the app today. Alta Beauty, the possibilities are beautiful. You want to talk about Jonathan Majors? No. I never want to talk about Jonathan Majors.

I think this is well-established on the podcast. No, but he's in the news. It's everywhere. It's trending. They're updates. We have a job to do. Go ahead. All right.

Let's come to Jesus real quick. I've done my best to be a person here. We've done our best to be people here. And you guys just don't, I don't think people understand. It's very difficult, right? And we're learning so many lessons in real time about the job Major's case, the Jonathan Major's case. Correct.

And I will say this. I personally, when I take responsibility to for the fact that I was, I read the text messages on the last episode of the show. And they shocked me. I mean, they didn't shock me.

You guys, you know, here's the deal. I've known and been around so many women that have been abused. I've been around so many women that have dealt with this and the toll that it takes the fear of going home,

the fear of waking up, the fear of coming in five minutes too late, five minutes too early, and just like how they have to live their lives when they're in relationships that are abusive.

I just don't ever want to be someone that makes space for that. And you balance that with having somewhat of a voice and somewhat of a platform and wanting to be responsible in your coverage of something.

The highs, the lows, the ups and downs, what works for the defense, what works for the prosecution, and where a case is. And when a case is going back and forth like this, if you're too reactionary, you're going to be wrong.

There's a possibility that I was too reactionary on the last podcast. Okay? There is. There's a possibility that I was. We don't know how everything is going to shake out. We don't know what the reality is. The mistake that I feel like we've made, or I've made, I'm not going to put you in this, is that we've been so anxious to not come off as if we're afraid to discuss this,

that sometimes we've rushed to discuss the latest thing that happened and not the totality of the entire situation because the way this looks for a lot of people is that earlier in the week, he was 100% guilty. He looked like they were in an abusive relationship, which I say as much on the podcast.

And now you're getting video and audio footage. The audio footage still seems pretty manipulative and abusive from being honest. But nothing like out of the ordinary of a, you know, he just seems wildly arrogant. You know what I mean? But, you know, there's a video clip of Jonathan Majors running from Grace Jabari on the night in question when they had their altercation. There's also been testimony from the driver of the vehicle that night who was an eyewitness to things that says that Grace was the aggressor. and Jonathan Majors was trying to get away from the situation.

There's also body camera footage release from the time that the police came. I guess, Donnie, is that what that was from? From the time that the police arrived unseen to what happened? Yeah, this is after he called the police. This is after he called the police. Right.

I mean, the reality is the closing arguments are going to begin today. We were recording it since Thursday. And he could very easily. And in my estimation, has a really good chance of beating this. 100%.

And so, and so, like for me, I just have to take accountability for a situation where I perhaps overreacted. I do not want to be somebody that's looked at

as someone who normalizes or makes excuses or or makes space for abuse. It's just facts. And so sometimes, you know, it's a little over my skis. Now, look, last thing I say, those text messages, to me, to me, still read as if he's asking her to cover something up. But around the incident that we're talking about, I've consumed as much as I can. I think it's going to be tough for the prosecution to get a conviction here. I do.

So people were upset in the last podcast because anytime we talk about Jonathan Majors, they always say that we're too soft or try to make excuses for Jonathan. And I think what I've tried to do, I mean, we've made it no secret the way that we felt about him, you know, prior to hearing all this or, you know, like the connection there. We've made no secret about that. We've been very honest about it. And also been very honest about how difficult it is to talk about any type of situation, which we've had other situations, not like this, but others, where it's difficult to talk about

it when you know the person involved and you know them to be a different way. People were mad. I'll speak for me in the last podcast because they felt that I was downplaying the text messages. And I was speaking from a legal perspective, which is what I've tried to do. in this case. And I said that those, first off, I want to say, it is very evident that they had a toxic relationship. To what degree of toxicity? I don't know. But from those text messages, from the way things are playing out in court, they had a toxic relationship. It was not healthy. It was not an ideal relationship. But what I said last podcast, and I think it goes towards what

we're finding out with the video footage being released, I said there's a reason those text messages were not allowed initially until his attorney opened up the door for them to come through during cross-examination. Why? Because it's a completely different event and hearing about those, and I'm not excusing it, I am telling you the facts. It's a completely different event. And hearing that event with this event causes you to be prejudiced about what's currently happening because you want to take what happened before and add it to this, which is why it wasn't included, which is what your reaction was. You, excuse me, you read those text messages and it's making you put that thought, that thinking or those feelings into this present case when that's a totally

separate issue. And under the law, you can't do that for that exact reason. Your reaction. You Then you get this other evidence that shows him actively running away from the situation, and it goes towards his story of that he was trying to get, it doesn't go, it doesn't support her story, it corroborates his. And that's why it's important to not conflate two issues, which is what I was saying. I am not excusing any type of problematic or abusive behavior. I specifically was speaking from the fact of it's two separate incidents. and when a jury is hearing a case,

you cannot put both of those in there unless that evidence is allowed for a particular reason. And I think that that's what people are maybe wrestling with now in light of the new information that came out. But from what I see as it stands, and granted, we haven't listened to every single piece of testimony. We haven't seen all the evidence that's been submitted to this case, but with the driver corroborating Jonathan's story

and with the video showing him not walking away, running full speed away from this person and her chasing after him. Trying his damned is to get away from the situation. Yeah. And her chasing him, it's like it corroborates his. And so it seems like from what we've seen in the headlines that a jury would find him not guilty.

But it doesn't also take away from past stuff, which is why I'll just say they had a toxic relationship. It was clearly problematic. In what ways? We don't specifically know, but it was bad. Last question. So if we, if the jury, if we, if it gets wrong back to the jury right now, Donnie just updated us.

Thank you, Johnny. Donnie. Johnny. Donny just updated us, updated us with some of the closing arguments that majors, attorney mate. It says it's hard to keep your story straight when you're making it up as you go. The prosecutors brought Grace's white lies.

Ooh, her big lies and all her pretty little lies. Jesus Christ. She's going right for the heart of the cultural situation. Pretty little liars and hold on. And so, the prosecution made its case. She told the officers how she didn't know how she sustained injury. Injuries the prosecution says, underscoring

Grace Jabari's mental state and protecting Jonathan Majors, which I think is a point that they were trying to make with those earlier text messages. The question is this. We'll talk about it more. If in a couple of days, could be tomorrow,

could be Monday, could be Tuesday, the jury comes back with the not guilty on this. There's going to be a very intense societal question that's asked. And that question is like,

what now? Because there are people that have already moved away from majors. Disney reportedly, Marvel, more specifically, has reportedly already moved away from the huge

Kang arc that they were going. Really? It's going to appear in something like nine or ten films. Yeah, they might be replacing Kang with Dr. Doom. Honestly, there's, you know, the John's major's aspect of them moving away from King. And that's also the part of it that the story just wasn't working for a lot of the audience anyway. And there was a lot of work to do. His portrayal

as King, both in Quantumania, as he remains in Loki, has been phenomenal. there's another character a variant called Victor Tomlin that people like to less but he's been great but the question is you know

if Jonathan Majors beats this he's an innocent man and there's going to be a round of you know give me my shit back and the reality is if he beats it

that's what should happen correct if he beats it if he beats it that's what should happen. Now, everybody can make the decision on their own about what they want to believe about him and of how they want to treat him. That's fine.

But if the jury delivers back, but not guilty on Jonathan Majors, he should be allowed to resume his career. He should be allowed to resume his career and be on the trajectory, maybe not as quick that he was on before this. But I would also implore him when you listen to these videos, he acknowledges that he has a temper, I think that there's going to be some work

that he has to do as well in terms of getting help, in terms of dealing with his shit, and all of that stuff. Yeah. So we'll just see how it happens. It's what should happen. But with the fact that there's been a Rolling Stones article, you know, really talking about his character and reputation,

there seems to be this movement in the media. I think there was a variety article as well, of talking about how the person and the reputation of him. As much as it should happen, I fear that it wouldn't, if he's found not guilty, because there already seemed to be

this media campaign, negative recruitment, towards having a certain opinion about Jonathan Majors. I'll say one last thing, because we mentioned the testimony of the driver. A lot of this stuff is coming out

as we're doing the podcast. The prosecution in their closing argument said that the driver is biased, that he's a biased witness to the man who paid him. I mean, Jonathan Majors arranged the pickup or whatever who's his driver or whatever.

So the prosecution's retort to the testimony of the driver is that the driver is a biased witness. The problem with that is that the video of him running away seems to support the fact that he was trying to get away from the situation.

And it's just, that's just the reality. And I will say this. The driver spoke through a translator when he testified. And there were some things that were coming through the translator where it was like, I assume, I think, like he was saying what he thought was happening because he was trying to keep his eyes on the road. And they were kind of like, you can't say that. You can't speak to that.

But the one thing that he emphatically said was that he didn't do anything. He wasn't doing anything. Like he was trying to like insinuate on like fill in the gaps. And they were like, you can't do that. So he was like, okay, well, this is what I can tell you. She was the aggressor. You know, so. Christian BBL from Jesus.

I keep trying to tell you all, how Christians having a bad time, man. Keep trying to tell y'all, man. It's getting real goofy. out here in these religious streets. It's getting real goofy. It's get goofy, period. But yes, it's not,

it's not Christian season right now. Okay? It's not, it's not. I don't want to, I don't want to insult this sister. She is a Christian YouTube influencer

named Sofiology. She went to get a BBL from a doctor named Dr. Young Money. He's out of Houston. Young Money. He went for liposuction and a fat transfer to her hips. All gravy.

Her recovery time would be six months. So BBL. You move some fat around. Fuck it. It happens. She linked the procedure to her Christian faith. She clapped back against those who were judgmental of her decision to have surgery. projecting their beliefs. Donnie, give me some audio from Sofology. This surgery that I had,

a lot of people have had it and they did not wake up, but God woke me up. And it's been six weeks and I'm healing so well. And I have still not figured out how to tell God, thank you. Like even beyond the surgery, he still keeps me safe, sound provided for, protected every day. Like, how can I even catch up to say thank you. Besides continuing to give him praise publicly as much nonsense as I get back for it, I don't know any other way to say thank you. Now, don't get me wrong. I get there's people that are like pro-natural bodies, like don't do anything to yourself, don't give veneers, don't do this one, don't do that one, I understand. I'm not personally that person. Like, I'm here for anything that makes you look better, feel better, have more confidence, and just enjoy your life,

I also get that there are people that look up to me for certain things. I hope there's other things you can find to look up. But if it's that, I should have big back and wide waist. Hold on. That's no what I want you to look up to me for. And whatever choices I make in my life, I beg, have your disappointments. I make a decision. Do you love me yes or no?

Mm-hmm. Rachel? I mean... What do you think? Well, it's just, it's not a Christian BBL. I mean, it's very evident that she is a Christian who got a Brazilian buttlift. She did put out another video where she basically explains why she made that video we just heard. And that it, there's without context, it sounds ridiculous, which it does.

And even she was explaining that. But basically, she's like, she has a lot of Christian followers. they got onto her and were really mad at her for getting this. And so as a way to clap back at her followers, she put up this video entitled it Christian BBL because she knew it would outrage them even further. And so this was, and then she was like, but then the internet,

she was, I knew it would get attention on social, but I didn't know it would span all these social media platforms. And she's like, so now it's taking a life of its own. And she basically says, I don't believe in a Christian BBL. That was me making fun of my followers and basically calling them out for being super hypocritical and judgmental.

And she goes on to say that she hopes that she upset them so much that they no longer follow her because she doesn't want people that are going to follow her that are going to be judgmental about the things that she does. She says there's nothing wrong.

And she's right with getting cosmetic work. There isn't. It's not ungodly by any way. It's also not in the Bible. But she acknowledges that. And she basically was like, this is her trolling her, her flock. Trotling her flock.

I do think that though, that like, once again, I just feel like it's like, you know, it's taking God to play with a little bit. You know, like God don't care about the game, man. Just get the BBL, sister. And if the people, you know what I mean? If the people that follow you care that you got a BBL, I don't know what the BBL has to do with Jesus.

It don't have nothing to do with Jesus from the people that are following them, following her. They don't have nothing to do with Jesus from her perspective. My thing is this, your soul and your salvation is supposed to be a serious thing. I think God has a sense of humor. I know I make God laugh all the time. But this weird contradiction

where these people tell you that God is the most important thing, that your eternity is the most important thing. I once had a teacher in Christian school, Christian Life Academy, tell me that like every single sin that you commit, you're choosing that sin over eternity. I never forgot that. and I remember his name was Mr. Dyer. I remember I raised my hand and I was like,

so Mr. Dyer, if I like, let's say I tell my mom I'm not going to get another piece of chicken and then I get another piece of chicken. He goes, you're choosing a piece of chicken over eternity. I'm like, oh my God. Like, let's say I look at something. He's like, everything, if you look at a pair of breasts on TV, you're choosing those breasts over eternity.

If you look at a little white line of this, of that, whatever you do, whatever it is, doesn't matter how small the transgression is. Every single thing you do, you're choosing that over eternity. I'm like, you know how I racked my brain over that? Sure.

I was driving home. Yeah, I racked my brain over that. I'm like, oh my God. And I went home and I told my dad that. And my dad was like, damn. Ain't that something? I mean, that's all he really said.

That's such a black elder comment. Yeah. Well, damn, ain't that something? All right, boy. What's on TV? And so, but I'm freaking out. I got anxiety. And so to know that you're getting beat down with the seriousness of life,

with everything that you should, could, and can be doing. And then when it's time for somebody to get a BBL, they plan? This is the way I'm talking about. But Jesus saved her. He woke her up from that BBL. She said a lot of people don't wake up from their BBLs. A lot of people don't survive the surgery. It is a very dangerous surgery.

And Jesus saves her from it. That's serious, Van. I'm just saying what she doesn't realize. and I don't think she's playing around and she can play whatever way she'd play. She's just doing harm. People already look at them like they're a bunch of crazy cooks. I saw like a Christian nightclub.

It was lights and everybody's dancing. And they like dancing. We don't have to bump and grind and like worship bad stuff. We can have just have your nightclub. Just go to the nightclub. Have a Christian nightclub. And if you want to hug people from the side, hugging from the side.

If you want to have a nightclub with the clean versions of all of these things, if you want to have a nightclub where they play DC Talk and La Cray and Bizzle and all of that, by the way, Lecray and Bizzle are crazy dope. Crazy dope. That's not a disc on La C. So is DC Talk. The crazy dope. Crazy dope rappers.

Like legitimately dope, right? Like legitimately dope. If you want to have that, have that. But just go enjoy it. enjoy it and say, hey, if you want to come hang out with us, you don't want to be out too late, you don't want to have to drink, boom, boom, boom, boom. But like, it's kind of like a weird thing

sometimes to where they don't know how to live in their own skin. They make it seem corny and lame. They double down on what people think that it is. And it's sad. Just get the BBL. You want a little extra shaking your shorts.

Jesus ain't got nothing to do with that. Jesus ain't got nothing. Jesus don't care. Casey talk used to have the song that was like, We're just two honks and a Negro Serving the Lord. What? You lying.

Hold on for a second. Hold on for a second. You, that's my question. Don't. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on for a second.

Two honks. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Donnie. Hold on for a second. Hold on for a second, bro. Like, Rachel, how did I not know this? Because you aren't deep in that Christian world like me.

When you really break it down. We're just two honks and a Negro serving the Lord. We're just two honks and a Negro singing our song. bro, bro. See what I'm saying? See what I'm saying? See, they try, I really think these people

got the devil in them sometimes. They're trying to make people not want to, they, you laughing. That's not funny, man. They're trying to make people not want to be down with God. You know how traumatizing this was to me?

A white person played this to me at first Baptist Academy. I was like, what the fuck? I didn't even say fuck back then. That's the remastered version. That means they went back in and made it better. They harmonized it.

See what I'm saying? They harmonized it. I'm telling you, I think there's a deep psychosis in some of this stuff that they don't even realize. Somebody from DC talk. Reach it. I want them on the podcast. I need them to explain this.

This really traumatized me as a child. White folks singing this song to me traumatized me as a child. I need them. It's supposed to be Christians. I need them to come on this podcast. And I can't believe you to know this. I cannot believe you to know it. I never heard it.

Toby Mac. Donnie, give it to us one more time. And Kim. Wait, give him something. Give him a little something. Go ahead, man. Break it down. When you really break it down.

We're just two honks and a Negro serving the Lord. Bro, that's a skit. We're just two honks and a Negro singing our song. That's so. And that's whack, bro. That shit is whack.

I'm sorry. I don't, I don't give her. Bro, that's whack, bro. That's what. Anyway, all right. We were talking about what we're going to do for mailback. Rachel's stop. It's going to be stuck in my head all day.

I'm not okay. I'm not okay. I'm going to do a tough time. I did not. I needed to laugh, but I did not need to remember childhood trauma. My parents should have taken me out of first. Stop this academy the moment that happened. Did you tell them about two honks and a negro?

I think I was scared. I was like, wait, did they say Negro? Did they just sing this to me? Two honks and a Negro? They were like, you want to sing it together? No. I'm not about to be your Negro in this song. They asked you to sing two harks.

They thought it was cool. Like, did you hear this D.C. Because that song had the Jesus is still all right, which is really popular. But then it had that. This episode is brought to you by Sweet Green. The day doesn't ask for permission. Lunch window? Gone before you saw it coming.

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went on the Reddit for whatever reason. I think I just wanted to know what the latest on the Reddit was. This is my first time on the Reddit than a long time. Good for you. But I went on a Reddit

and I saw what I thought was an interesting post. It's from Advanced Locksmith, 755. It's a long post, Rachel. Okay? Talk about it. I created an account.

I've always surfed this subreddit, though, just as an on-lubber. Just to comment about some of the statements from this and other recent episodes. I want to start by saying, I love this podcast and I appreciate the perspectives. Van and Rachel and Donnie bring every episode. I hope it's clear this critique concern comes from a place of love

that I don't expect much from commenting here. Since I generally don't comment or engage in discussion online as I don't truly know if it makes any difference. But I felt so strongly about this, I figured, I just write it down in case anyone reads it and can empathize. I'll start by explaining that I come from a large Jewish family. My grandmother's mom and her family were exiled from Syria for being Jewish. And my family ended up through various immigrations consolidated in Israel, Jordan, and the United States.

I'm extremely aware of the privilege I was born that I have as a white and being a Jew, that being Jewish comes with inherent privilege of being functionally white most of the time. In regards to Van Sain calls to globalize the Intifada are not akin to calling for the genocide of Jews because it's not, in his opinion, what Mptifada means, minimizes what that phrase carries for me and my family slash community. On campus, these calls do feel like a call for genocide, where it leads violence carried out against Jews in the world.

At minimum, it's calling for violence against Israel, but at maximum, at a maximum, And in most historical context, it absolutely means violence against Jews in Israel and worldwide. I understand there's mixed feelings about the ADL, but here's what they have to say about it. Okay, then he linked, this person, I don't know if it's a lady or a guy links to the ADL's website. When someone who is black explains that a phrase or sentence or action is anti-black, I listen. Even if I'm a minority in the black community says it's not anti-black. Black. I'm going to take the path of least harm and assume it's most likely something that harms

the black community and won't take that risk. I'm continuously disturbed and disheartened and scared by the amount of non-Jews who insist things that feel very anti-Jewish are, in fact, to me not. Reporting to a minority of the Jewish community saying it's okay and therefore I am the majority of the Jewish community need to just accept it as okay. I'm being fought with what aboutisms and having really very real generational trauma explained away by only some people who called for an intified amoe in the genocide of the Jews. So it's not anti-Semitic. I would never make that argument in reference to another minority group that I do not belong to. On this show, multiple times before, both Van and Rachel have expressed that different words, actions, events,

etc., feel racist to them. I would never argue against that. For example, when Rachel rightly called out soup kitchen about his explaining a way, of an antebellum party and who's to say if it's okay or not. The black community is to say it's okay or not. Additionally, antebellum parties aren't just about fluffy dresses. It's celebrating the time that was enabled by slavery. It's hiding and whitewashing that period and selectively choosing the nice white parts.

Classifying the Intifada or by any means necessary, etc. as not anti-Semitic or not hate speech against Jews or not called for genocide against Jews is akin to saying an antebellum party isn't racist because while parts of the period were extremely racist were enabled by slavery and feel incredibly offensive to the black community, not all parts were defined by racism or slavery. I feel increasingly disappointed that this show hasn't had a guest on to talk about these subjects, who is actually from the Jewish community, Israeli community, or from even the Palestinian diaspora, to discuss the issue of hate speech in these forms.

These discussions are becoming irresponsible whether I think, of a member of minority groups being harmed. I appreciate Van expressing that this was just his opinion and not a fact, but you guys have such a large platform that it's hard not to see how explain it away such harmful language won't be received on the other end by people listening. I know you've mentioned wanting to help the Jewish community thrive and not wishing any harm to us. I don't think that, I don't think you meant that at all in saying this statement, but it's such an awful history that I feel compelled to say something. I don't. don't expect this will bring about much or anything, but I do hope that some people who are

listening will read this, I think twice before claiming that there have been no calls for genocide of the Jews on college campuses because calls for globalizing the intifada are not calls for genocide or not hate speech. And my college campus, we are encouraged not to go to class and fears of our own safety during recent protests. I thought that that was an incredible message. I thought it was fantastic. I thought that it laid out very real fear and very real trepidation

and a feeling of unsafiness and insecurity that a lot of Jewish people are feeling. That a lot of Jewish people I talk to are feeling. The people in my neighborhood are feeling that people in my friends are feeling. And I was delighted to read it. I am delighted to be pushed.

I'm delighted to be pushed. I'm delighted to be pushed. I'm delighted to be question. I'm delighted for people to rearrange me on my square. I'm not delighted to be called stupid. I'm not delighted to have my father brought into it. I'm not delighted to be called a misogynist or any of those things. I think all of those ad hominem attacks most of the time from faceless, anonymous people on the internet, dehumanized people. And I'm sure I I delve into that myself all the time because I am not Jesus.

I don't have a Christian BBL, although I might consider one. So I'm imperfect, right? And so I received that message in an emotional way and in a very earnest fashion. What did you think about it? I mean, I completely agree with you and I think they're right. You know, it's not helpful to tell somebody how they should feel about a certain word or certain action when it's harmful, especially even more so right now, always has been for Jewish people, but even more so right now to their community or maybe puts misinformation out there or maybe does things that could trigger other.

people to be nonchalant about some of the dangers that are facing the the Jewish community. So I think they're right. I thought this question was more so geared towards you because I knew that you were specifically talking about this. But I agree with you, you know, when we're not a part of a certain community, sometimes words or actions don't have the same impact as us and we don't feel it the same way because it doesn't directly affect us. And so I agree with you.

I too would want to be corrected or called out or challenged or pushed when I get that wrong. Yeah. Okay, so here's a tough part. Uh-oh. I disagree. Okay. All right. Now, I'm open to have this conversation and I'm open to have this.

Here's a tough part. I disagree. And let me tell you why I disagree. And this is the toughest. part about this particular conversation in this time that we're in. Okay. Words don't just have meaning. History has meaning. Let's get a little bit of history real quick. And I'm going to talk about some things that are pretty extreme. And then we're just going to talk about kind of what globalized the Intifada or what Intifida means.

Now, Intifada uprising resistance is what that really means. And it has a specific connotation in terms of how it was used and how it was gone about in Israel. The first Intifada, as we talked about in 1987, was a multifaceted thing. There was violence involved in the first Intifada. It definitely was. that violence was in response to what people in Gaza thought was violence that was coming from Israel. And so the Intifada means an uprising.

I would never, the jihad is a term that I would stay away from. Or I would say, hey, that's a little bit different. Intifada denotes, in my opinion, resistance. Intifada means uprising. Globalized the Intifada. to, in my opinion, is a call for solidarity globally with the Palestinian people. Okay. Now, I'm not advocating for anyone to do anything.

I'm not advocating for anyone to go to any march. I'm not advocating for anyone to do anything. I do want to ceasefire in Gaza. Absolutely. And increasingly, the world is calling for that. I think right now close to 20,000 dead is doing nothing but making Israel more unsafe, making global jury more unsafe, and wiping people out of their homes, forcing them south where they're also being bombed.

These things are a fax on the ground. But I'll put it to you like this. If someone were to tell me that somebody was calling for a global genocide against Jewish people. Obviously, obviously, that's something that not only I am against, but something that I would take up arms to fight against. I would take up arms right now to protect the Jewish members of my community here. I got guns in this house. Somebody here was trying to assault my neighbors, trying to hurt their children, tried to do that. I would be right there. I would be right there fighting alongside them.

The conversations that we've had here on the podcast in the past were about really dealing with anti-Semitism. And the anti-Semitism that we were calling out and dealing with, Rachel, was by and large coming from the black community. We were asking, we were asking questions about our own community and our relationship with Jewish people prior to anything that had happened on October 7, prior to anything that's going on right now.

We were asking what do we need to do? That's how I got in contact with Rabbi Lamb. That's the reason why we talked about different issues that different black celebrities had gone through. It's how we all got connected is what we were trying to do. The issue here is talking about actions that involve a state when that state is inextricable from a people. and how we negotiate that.

Right now the American Revolution, it comes with a set of facts. It comes with a set of facts surrounding the people who believed that they were being unfairly ill-represented. That they didn't have a stake, that they didn't have self-determination,

that they didn't have any of those things, right? And those people, for whatever reason, decided, first with the Boston Tea Party that there would be an action behind that, And then secondly, they took up arms. I'm not advocating for anyone to do either. But what I'm saying is people are going to do something, right? People are going to do something in this case.

For me, what I would want people to do is to use boycott, divestment, divestment, and sanctions, to put pressure on world governments to stop what I believe is unfair treatment of Arabs, not only inside of Israel, but in the West Bank and Gaza. the reality is before this happened here on this podcast, we hadn't talked anything about what was going on over there. We had talked about other injustices all over the world, and we had discussed them, but we hadn't talked about the daily lives of people that were living over there.

The intifada, just to be honest with you, if we're talking about genocide or wiping Israel off the map, none of that stuff is stuff that I, or anyone that I know wants, But when we're talking about that, they're talking about an uprising and a resistance and a response to something, a response to an ongoing condition that existed, that has existed there since the Nakba in 1948. Since 700 to 800,000 people were expelled from the homes that they lived in and then not able to return. They're talking about a specific reaction to something. And they're talking about whatever they have to do.

And violence has been a part of that. But I'll say something else. Violence was a part of Jewish resistance in mandatory Palestine, in mandate Palestine, prior to the creation of Israel. There were different paramilitary institutions there, the Haganah, the Igul, the Leahy, led by guys like Manakum begging, like Xatrabin, who would go on to become the prime ministers of Israel, like Zeev Djibetinsky. the Bata movement, all of these different things, they resisted. They bombed the King David Hotel in 1947. They bombed orphanages. They bombed schools.

When they felt that they were not being heard, they used all different types of forms of resistance. Outright terrorism in the bombing of the King David Hotel. Outright terrorism by the Irgo, by the Leahy. Jewish organization. outright terrorism. And I'll say that to say, not to excuse terrorism in any way. What happened on January 7th was a breach of international law. It was disgusting. It was abhorrent. It was the worst part of the human experience. And I don't have any, any love or any, I don't make any excuses or give any space to Hamas and what they did. I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't make any excuses or give any space to Hamas and what they did. give any credence to how they went about it. I'm too human of a person to do that. I'm too human of a person to think that somebody going to a music festival is responsible for decades and decades of oppression to somebody else. A kid, a child, a mother, a son, a daughter,

a hostage, a body, a carcass is what they became. And that's unacceptable. When it comes to the term of intifada and what it means. They're asking people to join them in resistance of the situation that they're in. And if we label that, that specific ask as a call for genocide, we depower that ask. We depower it. We say that they have to ask nicely. How do you ask nicely for freedom? How do you ask nicely for justice? How do you ask nicely to be, to have dignity and self-determination as a human being, how do you ask nicely? And while I listened to that and I heard it and I felt what was happening and what was being written in that, what we can't allow, what I can't allow is to have certain words defined

as things that they're not based upon feelings. And if that makes me, whatever that makes me, I'm that. And every time we have conversations about words or things that black people are against, right, or whatever it be, look, I'm talking about, if we talk about the antebellum party, right, if we talk about what that means, it represents a specific time of slavery, you can't celebrate that without celebrating slavery. You can't. It's impossible. You can't celebrate an antebellum party. all of that outside of the context of slavery where black people were. Intifada does not mean, in my opinion, killing Jews.

It doesn't. It means resisting Israel, resisting Israel's occupation, resisting a country's action, a country's action. A country's action. That's what it means. And this is not me calling for the erasure of Israel Or me not saying that Israel doesn't need to exist Or me not saying anything What I believe at this point is the best thing to do

Is a one state solution One person, one vote That's it The two state solution is not going to work It seems like nobody is committed to it One state solution Everyone together one person one vote But do you know why that's not going to happen?

That's not going to happen because the creation of the settler colonial ethno state is too central to some of the Zionists, some of their, the fabric of their conversation that they have to have their state. They have to have a state where Jewish people are at the top of the run, where the Jews are at the top of the run. I'll just watch the documentary where, and we can play the clip where the guy goes, you know, if you want equal rights in Israel, if you want equal representation of Israel, it's easy, become a Jew. And then after that, he goes, well, democracy is a framework. It's not an end-all, be-all thing. I'm uncomfortable with that. And I hope that that doesn't make me an anti-Semite. And I'm not saying that all my Jewish friends believe that. Actually, most of my friends don't. I don't know anybody that does.

But that right there, a settler colonial ethno state where it's codified into law that one group of people is better than other people, how could someone as a black man from America to be down with that? And if we need to discuss it and discuss what that means, if we need to discuss what safety for the Jewish diaspora means, if we need to discuss what that means in a more robust way, then we can do that. But I think it's all wrapped up in what resistance to that looks like. And if every word that means resistance to that is equated to a call for genocide,

then it sometimes seems like what we're being asked to do is not have the conversation about resisting, is not have the conversation about uprising, is not have the conversation about what it means to say, hey, I want freedom, justice, and self-determination. And I cannot do that. Like, I hear this, I understand this, and I'm willing to talk about this.

I would love to platform this individual so we could have a conversation about it. But I cannot, I cannot watch some of the, the things that I watched and say, we can't have a conversation about what it means to fight back. What we can't have a conversation about is that that has to include safety, that has to include recognition, and it has to include sensitivity for what Jewish people have gone through, for what they have gone through. That has to include all of that. And I will prioritize that and I will always be here

for that conversation whether it means calling out members of my own community or other communities. But if we're talking about Israel and what has to happen, we got to take the kid gloves off. And that's the end of it. Anything

before we go? Because I went for a long time. I think that's a good way to end it. Listen, you were passionate about it. I mean, everything I understand that you said, like I could get more into it, but we got to go. I just, I understand what you're saying. I'll just put it that way.

But I also understand, I don't know, maybe both could be. I do. I understand as well. I know you understand. I just, I don't want to go into a whole thing about it, but I do think that you're giving the historical context to the meaning of the word. But is it possible that even. if they historically have the definition wrong, that they have taken that word to mean something harmful to them. For sure. Sure. And so I guess there's a space for that for me. Like, you know what I mean? But

I do think it's important to explain everything that you just said as well and why it is problematic to put a feeling to a word if that's or a movement or something, if that's not necessarily the case. So I get both. But I just wanted to say, it is possible that it has adapted a different meaning to a certain group of people that is harmful to them. So, like, that's why I hear both. But okay, we got to go. We got to go. Tell you think helps all, but do not stop learning. I'm interested in what happens now. I think you laid it out in a very intellectual way. And I am Rachel Let's see.