Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Drew Brees, Trump, and Obama: Discussing the Responses to the Protests

Episode Date: June 4, 2020

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay discuss President Trump’s response to this week’s protests and the stark contrast to former president Obama’s remarks (1:32). Then they cover the responses of professional sports figures, including Tiger Woods (18:45), Drew Brees (26:25), and James Dolan (35:24) before covering #BlackoutTuesday (46:58). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Yo, yo, welcome to the higher learning podcast, Thought Warriors, Put your thinking caps on. Van Lathen. Rachel Lindsay. Rachel Lindsay. A big Rach. Big Rache is what they call me. Big Rache is what they call you.

All right, Big Rache. The last time we did our podcast, it was Sunday morning, Sunday afternoon. Yeah. And my friend and podcast co-hosts was going through it. I asked you how you were doing. Yes. Black man and black woman. How are you doing today?

I have to say mentally, I'm in a much better state. So that was Sunday. It's Wednesday. Two things have happened since the last time we talked. One, the officers, all four that were involved, have now been arrested and charged. I don't think we've gotten the charges of the other three yet, but we kind of know where they're going to go with that. But they have upgraded the charge to discharges. to disgraced former Minneapolis officer Chauvin.

So now he's been charged with second-degree murder. That makes me feel like we are headed in the right direction, and we are taking the steps forward that we need to in regards to getting justice for George Floyd. Second thing that has happened is that on Monday, I watched our president address the nation. Okay? We can get into that.

But just a second ago, before I hopped on this podcast, I watched former President Obama address the nation in a town hall. And it was everything that was lacking in the president's address on Monday. It was hopeful. There was a call to action. I felt encouraged. I felt like he heard me. He empathized with me.

And not just me as a person of color, just George Floyd's family, other people that have suffered these injustices, just being a person of color, period. It was what I needed and it made me think forward. And I haven't been able to do that, honestly, since May. I haven't really been thinking in a forward direction. So I'm feeling better than I have the first two episodes that we podcasted. Right, right. I love, number one, that you're judging your move by episodes.

This podcast is going to be very successful. And you go, you know, episode one, not so much. episode three a little bit better. I love that. Now, so first of all, I think that charge is going to be some form for the other three officers. It's going to be some form of aiding and abetting. Yes. So, you know, 80 and a bedding where I'm from is like a, it's like the boogeyman of charges.

Because they always, it is. Why? Because 80 in the bedding is the thing that your dad actually warns you about. My dad never warned me about actually going out there and committing crimes because he knew that if I committed the crime, I would go to jail and then the real bullshit would start when I got home and he put his boot in my face. Okay.

But what he was always worried about was the murky underbelly of A-A, aiding and a bedding. Hey, Van, listen, if your little homeboy steal some socks and then he give you the socks, you're aiding in the bedding. I'm not sure if that's actually true. It's let you know, Van, if somebody walks by, you and they got a radio and they stole it and you hear the music, Aiden and Abedding.

So he was just always trying to get me not to be in any way involved in any criminality. Guilty by association. Guilty by association. In this particular case, the aiding and abetting here is of the most serious, of the most heinous way. You see someone on the ground begging for their life. And not only do you not sort of intervene to stop that,

it seems as if the cops in this case were making sure that it could happen without anyone getting involved. Oh, absolutely. They were offensive linemen blocking people from trying to intervene and help George Floyd. Well, and then even when they check his pulse and say he doesn't have a pulse, they stay there for multiple minutes thereafter. I mean, making sure that the job was, in essence, done. The murder was done.

So I definitely think that they should be charged with something higher. But what we need to also make sure that happens is that you don't charge them with something that you can't prove. Because we want them to be convicted in this case. And so we don't want to frivolously throw a charge out there that the attorney general can't prove. Yeah. And let's discuss that for a second before we get a question. into President Trump, because I was on the phone with somebody last night that made an unbelievable point to me when we were comparing this to the 92 riots as far as what went down

with Rodney King. What was reminded to me was that the Rodney King unrest that happened here in Los Angeles wasn't the result of the action, it was the result of the acquittal. And in this case, this is a result of the action itself. And the acquittal, the legal part of this is still forthcoming.

So in it of that, what you have is the utmost importance in the correct charges, the utmost importance in the correct sentencing, the utmost importance in the legal system really doing its job here or else the unrest that we're seeing right now if there's a not guilty verdict or if they fumble it up there in Minnesota, it could look quaint compared to what happens after people are disappointed to that level. So that's why everyone that's talking about the legal ramifications of this should really

hope that the charging is right, the investigation is right, the prosecution is right, the prosecution is right and all of that is handled as close to flawlessly as possible. And this message is so important for our people who are just now stepping into this, this cause and this movement and who aren't as familiar with the past. I think it's so important that you don't stop when you say, okay, they're arrested. They've been charged. This message is really, really for you because you might not remember George Zimmerman getting off. You might not remember, and I can't remember the officer's name, who murdered Philando Castile.

you might not remember him getting off. It is very possible that it could happen. In the case of Mike Brown. I'm sorry. Darren Wilson, exactly. No, no, please, please. And countless others. We aren't new to this.

And so I think you have to realize that an arrest and a charge is not the end of the story. So it's such a good point about the riots and when and how they occurred. Because, ooh, man, if he gets off, any of them. Any of them. Right. So let's talk about the president. Let's talk about a tale of two presidents. You spoke about it.

Just give me your thoughts in terms of how President Trump has handled in totality and did handle what the nation is going through in his speech earlier this week. Well, he hasn't really handled it. I mean, he has handled it, I guess, in his way, but not in a way to bring this country together because we are so, I'm not going to say we're divided. We're just unrest, civil unrest. That's what everyone, that's the phrase everyone keeps using. President Trump stood up there and talked about, there were so many things wrong with what he said, man, and he got it there and he talked about law and order. That's the platform that he stood on. I don't even know if you saw, but it upset Ice Tea, that he reverend.

French his show. He tweeted about it. Law and order. That was the whole thing, which is so funny because all he was not funny, but it's just, he's up here talking about law and order and how he's going to use this power and use the military, almost talking about the military as if they are upon, a military that he avoided, notoriously avoided. He avoided the draft.

We know this. But yet he is this big, bad and bold president of law and order. And the contradiction in saying he was an ally for these protests. protesters when we already know how he handles peaceful protesting with Colin Kaepernick, and then to say, oh, but I'm also going to unleash this military personnel and use something that hasn't been used since the 1992 riots against the American citizens. Rather than saying, I see you hurting, I see you in pain, I see you upset and frustrated and outrage. And what can I do as a president, as your leader, to bring you together? Joe Biden addressed it when he talked, and I just

saw former president Obama do that as well. Completely different approaches. One making you feel like, my goodness, we're going to, we're going to have a civil war. And then the other one making you feel like, okay, maybe we can move forward and there is some hope in the country. Obama really put things into perspective in a very nice way that I feel like he spoke to these young people who might feel very lost at this point while they're protesting and trying to figure out, You know what? When the protesting ends, what comes next? He did a very good job of outlining that.

What was your take? I mean, for me, and by the way, after I say this, I might be kicked out of all the men's clubs. We have secret men's clubs where it's just men. Like a Mason? Well, not Mason. Hey, don't listen. Don't talk about any of these.

I don't need the Freemason Secret Society people coming at me. I'm not involved in none of that shit. I'm not in I'm in nothing. No. I'm in nothing. Because there's a video for everything.

There's a, every single thing you could possibly be a part of. There's a YouTube video for it. There's YouTube videos for, do you know the secret society of Sam's Club and Costco members? There's a YouTube video. I'm not, none of that shit, none of it.

But the club that I'm talking about is the toxic masculinity city club, which all men are born into and have to pledge allegiance to at age 13 or jump away from at age 30. Because I saw a true weapon of mass destruction on display during President Trump's speech. And that is the male ego. The male ego is one of the most dangerous things, not just now, but in the history of the world. More bombs have dropped. More women have been hurt. More people have been dominated and taken

advantage of because of the male ego than anything else. What President Trump did was a completely transparent show of force because people think that he is weak. He got up there and used every wrong term that you could use. Right. Americans are tired of being dominated. What did he say has to happen? We have to dominate. Okay.

Americans are tired of being dictated to. What did he say we have to do? Dictate, control the streets. It's all about, hey, they said I was scared. Now only am I not scared. I'm dominant. You got to go on dominate. And then not only,

only did he speak those words, okay? But he did something else that the male ego did, does a lot of times. He hurt people in order to have the freedom to speak them. He had to have that church, that place cleared out with tear gas and rubber bullets, just so he could go and feel strong. How many times does someone else in this country have to get victimized so some dude somewhere can feel strong about it. Now, we're going to talk about a lot of things as we talk up, as we, as we continue

this podcast. A lot of male pride today. A lot of male pride is on the agenda. Of course. One of the things that we're going to have to talk about is how much of a society that we're going to be able to have going forward if we don't give women and empower women to have an opportunity to lead this country. Yeah.

Because and sitting there and listen, my dad going to hit me, my brother's going to hit me, all of my mentors going to hit me, Van, I don't need you to be on there talking crazy about masculinity. There is nothing better for this country or this society than a comprehensive man than a man who is strong in conviction, who believes in responsibility, his family, who believes in protection, who believes in sharing power, who believes in empowering others, It's a very important thing. And I hope that all of my young brothers and sisters, young people, period, get a chance to see that in their life.

There's nothing better than that. But the opposite of it is so absolutely destructive. The opposite of it can suck the life out of so many different things. And more than anything, I looked at President Trump and I said, there's a guy who is completely unsure of himself and is willing to hurt score. of people to prove to himself and to people around him what a badass he is. And because for background, because he was hiding in a bunker 24 hours before that, and he was upset that that was leaked to the American people. So he had to come back and do the complete opposite end of the spectrum and walk the streets

by terrorizing peaceful protesters to have a photo op, literally the definition of doing it for the Graham, to take. take a picture in front of a Bible that he or in front of a church that he rarely visits, a Bible he has never opened, a Bible, as he quoted, for what purpose? I don't know. I don't know. It was arrogant, the audacity of the whole situation, the mockery to religion. It was, I couldn't believe what I was seeing with those pictures, with the photo op in front of that church. I couldn't believe it. What, like, in your in your mind right now, as I watch Malcolm Jenkins, you know what I'm saying?

I'm seeing Malcolm Jenkins on the TV right now. I see him? I see him in my, you see Malcolm Jenkins right there? Boy, I tell you what, if Cap and Nessa are watching this right now, they're freaking out. Eric Reed or Eric Reed. Or Eric Reed just broke a television. Because like, it's not even that. Eric Reed is not freaking out.

Eric Reed just broke it, Stephen. Eric Reed, if you want to get an autograph from Eric Reed, he will be at best by tomorrow. I don't know if you guys know the whole schism between the Players Coalition and Cap and Nessa is just a lot going on right now. A lot of demonstrations happening all over the place.

But they're peaceful. I was specifically offended by the Bible. And the only reason why is because it's just listen, there are, you can believe what's in the Bible. You cannot believe what's in the Bible. I am a man who was raised

a specific way and I turn to religion into my faith to calm me, to give me answers. And really, you know, help me minister different things to other people. Okay. There are a lot of things about the Bible that you can question. Okay? I'm not going to get all religious on the pot. One thing you can't question, though, is how Jesus went about his. life and how he tried to solve problems. And he tried to solve problems, whether or not you believe Jesus is the son of God or not. He tried to solve problems with love and understanding. And that doesn't mean that he wasn't against being ferociously on fire. So he did go into a place where tax collectors were doing bad stuff and turned over all the tables and stuff like that.

It was time to get gully. It was time to get gully. You know, him and the guys are walking on the road. They ask what, they asked Jesus what to bring. Jesus says, we'll bring a sword. Why would he say bring a sword? Because in case we get robbed, we need a sword. Okay. But what's going on in this country coming from the top is so far away from that, that it's disrespectful, not even to secular people.

It's disrespectful to anyone who has an understanding of what that Bible represents to use it there. Well, it was a mockery of the whole situation. You use the church as a backdrop and the Bible as a prop. There are so many other ways that you could have gone about that. You could have met with church leaders because that church was almost vandalized a couple of days before or the day before. You could have said a prayer. You could have read scripture. There were so many things that you could have done.

And instead, you used it as I said, as a backdrop and a prop. And that's what was so despicable. And that's what was making a mockery of something that is so important to, a large sector, not just of the American people, of your voters. That is what was so shocking by the whole situation. I'm going to read you something now. I have a special message. Is it scripture?

No, it's not a scripture. I'm going to read the scripture. Listen, you understand? I thought we were headed somewhere. Do you get the fact that a lot of people just fast forward it past that part of the podcast? If I start reading scripture, you know, I'm going to do that one day. One day we're just going to come on here and I'm going to be like, all right, to get you guys started today on higher learning. Why not?

We're just going to get you guys started with Matthew 2416.1. No, not, no. I'm going to read you a message. This message is a message from my homie Eldrick. You want to hear it? Yes. This guy I know named Eldrick. I met him a couple of times.

He gave us a message and I want to make sure you guys hear. The message said, my heart goes out to George Floyd, his loved ones and all of us who are hurting right now. I've always had the utmost respect for our law enforcement. They trained so diligently to understand how, when, and where to use force. This shocking tragedy clearly crossed that line. I remember the L.A. riots and learned that education is the best path forward. We can make our points without burning the very neighborhoods that we live in. I hope that through constructive, honest conversations, we can build a safer, more unified society.

That's my from my homie, Eldrick. I'm saying. Shout out to Eldrick, man. And what, and what would you respond to your homie for making that type of comment? Because I was with, I said, oh, my gosh, is this a fan of the podcast? And then as you continue to talk, I knew exactly who you were talking about. You know, it's crazy. It's like so many people are listening to the podcast and they're going, yo, who is

Eldrick? That sounds like a real black name. That's because it is. That's because Tiger Woods's real name is Eldrick. Tiger is some dude that they created a long time ago to sell Buick. This man changed his name from Eldry to Tiger. Because it's his complaisian name. It's his complaisian name.

That's his complaisian tribal name. Okay, cool. The tribe of the concoblations. Listen. Okay. So let's do this big rage. Okay. Let's try to analyze what we feel like is wrong with this message without

put it on steel toe boots and just kicking Eldrick in the nuts. Okay? Because that would be easy. That would be easy. I turn it over to you. What do you feel like is wrong with this message from Tiger Woods? So I don't have the message in front of me. But from when I saw it, okay, he's your friend, apparently.

But when I saw it, it would, there were two things that stood out to me, the way he spoke of the police. and the way he said education is the only way. Okay. This problem that we have in our country is not something that you can throw education at it. It's not something that you can wrap your arms around it and hug it. This isn't something that you can love away. This is a real issue and it's going to take action and some type of reform to fix it. So what bothers me about Tiger and his message is that it is extremely tall.

home death and it sounds very removed. When you wake up in the mirror, Tiger, what do you see? I know who you are. I know what your status is. You got money. And maybe you had a different upbringing that maybe wasn't like some other people of color. But when you look in the mirror, you are a black man. You're black. I don't, I don't, you're black. That's what people see. So the fact that you are speaking so detached from black people is what bother. me so much about the statement, I would have rather him not make a statement at all. And this is another thing. I feel, I feel people feel the pressure to speak out against what's happening and are saying the wrong thing because they feel pressure to speak. We'd rather just

not hear from you at all. Yeah, it's like sometimes I watch Neil DeGrasse Tyson videos and I want to leave, I want to leave YouTube comments, but then I don't leave YouTube comments. Do you know why I I realize I don't know shit about astrophysics. Okay, exactly. So the reality is, why don't I absorb the video and what Dr. Tyson is saying and try to understand it before feeling the need to always inject my sort of opinion into it? I'm not saying in this particular case that Tiger Woods had no right or no place to speak. because Tiger Woods, like you said, is a black man. And Tiger Woods is someone with an ordinary amount of influence.

Therefore, people were probably going to be pulling on him to speak. But to your point, the point that you made is this statement strikes wrong because it's a both-sides of an issue that we have all decided doesn't have very much on both sides. We understand that cops get trained. We understand that cops, some of them, want to refrain from using force. But we also understand that there is a systemic issue with policing that seems to denote cops kicking the shit out of people and killing them all the time. What we need from someone who wants change in this situation is to address that. address what you're prepared to do, Tiger Woods, Eldrick.

Okay. Address what you're prepared to do to make change there. To keep American citizens safe there. To change the perception of police officers from a power-hungry cult of like, I don't know, just aggressiveness to people who are actually dedicated to protecting and serving the most vulnerable people in the community. Because remember, when you say protect and serve, you're not saying protect and serve against criminals who are not police officers. You're saying protect and serve against a criminal that would assail an American citizen anywhere, everywhere. So that's inside of your own police department as well. If you really want to protect us, well, don't just protect us from the people that's outside.

Protect us from the people that are inside as well. So what we want to see from Tiger and people like Tiger is not a both sides of it. We want to see Tiger Woods speak to the specificity of this issue and see if he would support us in coming up with solutions to it. No one is asking anybody to go and take up arms against someone. What we're asking for is a real conversation. Right. You know, it's like back in the day, right? You know, Tiger, let's be honest, okay?

This is not, be honest, okay? We always are. Tiger knows what it's like to be a victim of violence. Let's just be real. Okay. Because, you know, Tiger himself took a golf club to the head. So Tiger knows what it's like to be a victim of violence. It's happened to Tiger.

This is a very special moment in the podcast. I'm going to make sure that I keep my voice. Tiger has been hurt before. Now, imagine when Tiger is looking at a Scandinavian swinging a non-iron at his head, right? because she came up on those text messages. Imagine if Tiger goes, well, babe, I think now is the time to address some of the reasons that I might have been stopping

from Hooters to Hooters to Hooters all across South Florida. No. In that moment, is that what you do, Tiger? No. That's not what you do, Tiger. In that moment, you don't tell her. In that moment, you deal with the problem.

And the problem is table number eight, Jupiter, Florida, all these places. That's the problem. So that's why that whole thing didn't work for me. Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimphia.

Gusealcumab. Taken by injection is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaques psoriasis, who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy, and for adults with active psoriotic arthritis. Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur. Before a treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about trimfaya. Tap this ad to learn more about trimfaya, including important safety information. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable

internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business. So visit spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. This episode is brought to by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess.

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They're not the only athlete. This was like the day and the week of bad takes in sports. Did you hear what Drew Breeze, my quarterback from the New Orleans Saints had to say? Did you hear the Drew Brees? You got to speak on this. I forget, yes, you are Louisiana. Yeah, tell me, so let's talk about your quarterback. Let's talk about him and how he doubled down today on

prior statements that he made during the Colin Kaepernick issue. Wrong time, Drew. During the caller Kaepernick thing. Just wrong time, man. I think, I think what people want, you know, just to replay it in mind, what Drew basically said was he'll never be okay with anyone protesting the American flag and taking the knee in front of the American flag. And I'll be serious here.

And he went on to wax poetically about the reasons why he feels that way. to, I guess, grandfathers that both fought World War II, which, by the way, that's a tremendous sacrifice. That's a tremendous sacrifice. Those guys of World War II went over and saved the world.

The problem with that is Drew Brees not understanding what that flag represents for him and what that flag represents for so many of us. You know, and I think when someone can't recognize that, it starts to erode your confidence that we'll ever get to live in all of the same America.

When someone can't understand sort of the difference between what they're trying to protect and what it is that we see. And I think that Drew Breeze, and he's been kind of called out by some of his teammates, Emmanuel Sanders, Michael Thomas on Twitter, I think Drew Breeze needs to have a handful of conversations about this and understand what exactly we're trying to do before he keeps going down this road.

This is a fool me once. Shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. He's doubled down on how he feels about what Colin Kaepernick did. There is no conversation to be had. It is what it is. You're not changing this man's mind. It's not like Colin Kaepernick did this last week. This happened years ago.

And he still feels this way after watching what is currently happening in our country. I am, I don't know if I should be shocked, but I guess I'm just shocked at the audacity to double down on it. You are clearly missing the point in this. this whole thing. You can't say that you feel the certain way about kneeling when it comes to and how it disrespects the flag, but then also say that you stand by your black brothers and sisters when it comes to the injustices they're facing because you're missing the entire point of what Kabbernick was doing. The flag represents something, as you said, Van, to black people. And it doesn't hold the same weight because of how this country has treated us as it does to white people.

So the fact that you're comparing your white experience to our black experience shows me you just don't get it and you're not trying to get it. And if I'm a teammate, I'm going to have a huge issue with that. I just don't know how you move forward or past that without him unless he changes his mind, which at this point he's going to show us that that's not the case. The flag, I'm just shocked at Drew Brees for having as many black. as you have and to being that bold. It's one thing when you said it, not that I agree with it, but it's one thing when you said it when the country wasn't in the place that it is now, where people are more aware in a way of what Black Lives Matters means now

than they were when Colin Kaepernick was trying to tell you about it. Yeah, it's not that I don't want people to get this confused. It's not that anyone, myself, you, or anybody else I know is anti-American. What we're fighting for is to be American. Like we're fighting for the rights that we're guaranteed as Americans. And what we're simply saying is that that flag, which is a symbol or a lot of other things, which seem to be symbols of American freedom, of American excellence, of the price paid for American freedom, that it doesn't hit us the same way if these are freedoms that we cannot access.

and we're asking by kneeling for the flag, everyone who did kneel, to start a conversation about how we get on the same page about that. It's the start of a conversation about police brutality and systemic racism and all of those things. And when you say you can't do that, I don't agree with your ability to say, hey, this country isn't working for me. It once again does something that's the biggest sin of all of this. It minimizes you and makes you feel small.

I guess I'm, oh no, go ahead. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. No, you got it. You got it. By the way, just want to let you know something. My mama was very upset over the first episode that we did. My mother. What?

Okay, I got a mom issue too. So please tell me yours and then I tell you what my mom said. Just real quick, while we're talking about this, my mother was like, great podcast. But that sister is so bright. I love her. And you, and you treated her like this was the color purple with the amount of times that you talked over her. So look, you want to jump in? You jump in.

That was my bad. I was sorry. I'm sorry, Mama. Sorry, everybody. I was tuned up. I can't wait to meet your mom. I can't wait. I love a woman.

It takes a woman to get you right. To show you, it takes a woman. You said that. It really does. It's so funny. You say that because my mom was driving back from Houston to Dallas. And she's like, I listened to both of your podcast episodes on the way. And she said, can you not curse as much as you did?

And I was like, oh, Mom, I said, listen, we're just having a conversation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So my mom, my mom, so if I curse, I'm so sorry, Mom. I'm just caught up in the moment. And can we just agree that we just blame Van when it happens? If I curse, let's just blame Van. Let's just blame Van. No, what I was going to say is with the flag and the whole patriotic being a patron,

just what it represents and all of that, you have to also remember that same flag. that same flag, although it may have had less stars in it, that same flag was waving in the air when we were working on plantations. That's the same. That's all you really... I can put a period right there. That's all you really need to know.

The flag has been the flag with less stars, whatever. It has been a flag that represents our country and what is America. And there were at times when it was waving in the air when we were enslaved, when we were called three-fifths a person, when we were being lynched, when we had no rights, when Jim Crow's laws were there, when I couldn't marry the husband that I have now.

Drew Breeze, to me, this is simple. Let me question. If you're Drew Breeze, how do you fix it? Like, if you're Drew Breese right now, you go home and you watch 13th on Netflix. But let's put it to it left. If you were on that team, right? You know, if you were, if Drew Breeze was like a teammate of yours,

and he had said something, let's say that you worked at a place. No, never mind. No, no, go ahead. Go ahead. I know where you're going. Go ahead. I'm saying, let's say that you worked at a place or with someone that had said something that they hadn't fully thought through and was maybe less than sensitive in the times that we're living in right now.

How would you address that person, that issue, just on behalf of Drew Brice? Well, speaking from past experience, I would go to that person and let them know that I was offended before I went publicly. You know, we talked about religion. The Bible says if you feel offended, go to your brother. If your brother doesn't listen to you, then they were never your brother. So if you don't listen to me, that is Matthew 1815, by the way. If you don't listen to me, then my reaction is to make a statement about it.

If I feel that I was directly affected by it and I feel like I need to speak out. out on it. That's just me. But in return, how does that person respond to it? Well, if they make some, if they take the time to understand what was wrong, maybe what was ignorant about the situation, and then they make amends by apologizing, then that would go a long way with me. It would go a long way. But you have to take the time. You have to be willing, and this is a higher learning reference, you've got to be willing to unlearn what it is that you've been taught for so long, and you've got to be willing to learn something new. And that's what you need from Drew Brees.

Because he's set in his ways, and he's put his foot down. He's put his flag in the ground at this point and said, this is what I believe. And this is why. Now, we have it in the rundown to also, because there are a lot of people that messed up this week, we have it in the rundown to also talk about James Dolan. but I'm going to not talk about James Dolan. I'll tell you why.

Why? Because I've been told that if you speak of Satan, that he appears. So because of that, I'm not going to even get into James Dolan. James, like, James Dolan annoys me so much. Just the fact that James, like, I don't even want to, I don't really don't ever have a conversation. There are a couple of people that I never want to talk about on this podcast. We're going to have to talk about him one day. one is Takashi 6-9 and the other one is James Dolan.

I never want to have a conversation about the ineptitude, just the sort of disgusting terribleness that James Dolan and the Knicks organization is right now. It's just so bad. He handled this exactly the way I expected him to handle it, which is the worst way possible. That's all I'm saying because I don't want him to knock at my door right now. It is the worst way.

Just for a reference, for those of you don't know, James Dolan basically sent out a minimum. memo to all of his employees, including at Madison Square Garden, that they are not allowed to speak on the incident of George Floyd or anything thereafter because they have no, basically have, basically have no place speaking on it. So he silenced them, okay, which is what is that very issue in the aftermath with George Floyd is that people have been silent too long, is that your silence makes you complicit to the injustices that are happening in our society. And James Dolan basically embodied that in a memo that how in the world did you not think was going to get made public?

He didn't care. That's really what the issue is. He didn't care if it did or not. And now we got to talk about him because that was just too good of the way you kind of laid that out. But I'll put you like this. Silence is complicit, right? Yes. silencing someone makes you not complicit.

It makes you one of them. Now, if you see something bad happening and you don't say anything, you're complicit to the bad acts. But if you see something bad happening and you purposely tell somebody else not to get involved, now you're as evil as a person committing the act. You're not complicit. You're one of them. And that's what James Dolan showed.

And we have to understand that there's a way that a lot of the sort of people's religious devotion to the bottom line is also holding back American progress. At some point, people and their situations and their experiences in this country are going to have to matter more than the next ratings or merchandise or whatever. And in the long run, when people feel better about America,

people will be more participatory in it. And we have to trust that. And we have to trust that and we have to see that. And we have to read, what I would tell Drew Breeze is, part of you having a conversation about kneeling in front of the flag is going to help restore people's faith in that flag. Help restore people's faith in some of the things that we were taught when we were kids,

which is that this country works equally for everyone. And if you work hard, you'll be guaranteed life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. And part of that is seeing other people care about it as much for you as they care about it for themselves. And sometimes when we get in the trenches here, you just kind of don't see that, right? You see people that run from the fire. And it's just, it's hard to stomach sometimes. What have you seen this week that has made you hopeful? Oh, I would say, so in this week, maybe I'll, maybe I'll speak from the time since we last talk from Sun, because we all know how I started off the podcast on Sunday. I wasn't hopeful. I was, I was sad. I was mentally not in a

good space. The podcast actually, this podcast gives me a great way to kind of put my emotion and my energy into in a positive way. But I feel different from Sunday to Wednesday. And it is because I wouldn't have guessed people would still be protesting. I mean, the officers have been charged and people are still protesting now in a peaceful way. And when I look at the who is protesting, It is so great to see that we all look so different. It's not just us talking about Black Lives Matter. It is white, Hispanic, Indian, Amish, people screaming out saying Black Lives Matter, which is something we've never really seen before.

So that makes me hopeful. I loved what President Obama said, stepped out and said. And I think that what was so important about what he said is he gave you some direction. because I get, I think I talked about this on a lot on the last podcast, I get a lot of questions of what do I do, what do I do? And he basically said, okay, people talk about voting and maybe you don't feel like your vote matters, even though it does, on a presidential level. But what about voting locally for your DA? They're all elected officials for your state attorney who impacts, you know, is involved in negotiating collective bargaining agreements for the police union. who is involved in appointing the police chief.

There's so many ways that you could impact things locally. So these things, like with George Floyd, don't happen, that I'm loving that people are addressing and talking about, and it makes me feel hopeful. It's very true. Do you feel hopeful at all? Yeah, I saw a video on Rex Chapman's Twitter today of a girl posing with a seal.

and I just completely changed my whole mood. I'm sorry. What? It was a girl and a seal. Look, Rex Chapman, shout out to Rex Chapman. Rex Chapman, we covered it on TMZ a couple of years ago. Rex Chapman once got arrested, I think it was like $30,000 or $40,000. He was trying to steal from like a mall in Scottsdale or something like that.

And now Rex Chapman, and he's talked about that. So now Rex Chapman is the most inspirational motherfucker that really walks the face of the earth. like Rex Chapman is great. And today I was scrolling around looking for stuff to be upset about. And that's just the, at least you're honest. That's just the mode that my mind is from minute to minute, who can I say, hey, fuck you two. All right? I'm just looking for who's on our side.

When I say our side, I mean, the side of people that want to see better for this country and who's not. And I scroll past this video that was on Rex Tap. Chapman's Twitter feed and it's like a seal or a sea lion. What's the difference? Do you know? I don't know. No, I do not. What's the difference between the seal and the sea line?

They look insane, don't they? I don't know. That's a walrus. Okay, but for the, y'all didn't see, he put his fingers out like fangs. That's a walrus. A walrus has a big fangs. Right. Wait, an elephant has the same thing.

Oh, God. We don't know. We sound. We sound. We sound. Nope. Nope. Nope.

Nope. I'm not going to cut that. You know, we're not going to cut that out because that's, that's truth. that people stop learning about animals after like the seventh or eighth grade and I don't understand why. Like it's like they teach us about all the animals up to like the eighth grade.

And then in high school, which animals did you learn about in high school? What's one? Give me an animal because like all the animals and dinosaurs and stuff like after a certain point, they just stop teaching you about animals. And if you want to learn about animals,

you got to wake your own ass up on Saturday morning and rush a crocodile hunter or Jack Hanley or whoever that guy is. Because it depends what type of profession you're going to go into is serves no purpose. To answer your question, the only animal I learned about in high school was the man.

Oh, see? There you go. The man. So think about it. So think about it. You're acting like that's okay. But now we're doing a podcast and we need to know

whether or not it's a sea lion, a seal, or a walrus. And two college-educated people look like some dumbasses because we don't know. So I'm just saying, I don't know why they stop teaching us about animals.

Okay. So what did you learn about the video that you saw with a girl posed with a something that resembles a seal? I learned nothing. The only thing that I learned, like, the only thing, it was a cute video. Like, she, like, she is, she's there. And then this big ass animal is there. And they get together and they take a picture.

And then she sticks her tongue out. And then the seal sticks its tongue out. They didn't touch tongues, Rachel. But they both had their tongues out looking at the camera. I was thinking to myself, oh, man. Oh, my, my baby, fuck the police. Like, I was, for a moment, like, I melted. And then I remember kind of what we're in.

And I came back. And that's really, really the fact that I could still have thoughts about something other than this, that gave me hope. Okay. That, like, it gave me hope that one day we can, we can come together and really do the hard work to get this figured out. And then once it's figured out or once we feel better about it or once we have some movement, you know what we can do then? We can go to brunch.

We can go to Disneyland. We can enjoy the game that this, these problems. I don't know if you're coming out of these problems or if you're coming out of COVID when you talk that way. That's, forget about that. That sounds like a COVID problem. When I say, when I say all of that stuff, I'm talking about that stuff. This is 2023.

So we're going to have enough problems to like get all of this stuff. to get some legislation passed because none of that stuff's happening for like a long time. But I'm saying it just taking my mind off it for one second was helpful. But then it was also good to get back on here with you and get re-engaged and ignited and just ready to do the hard work. Okay, okay. And I love that. But I have to ask you a question and what you were just saying. So one of the things that has made me feel a little different than I felt before is because it's something.

thing I've never seen before. So we all know that I come from this franchise called The Bachelor, and we know I'm the only person of color that's been a lead in this franchise when they've cast it for 40 seasons. Say black. Say black. We're good with that. Okay, black. Fine. Black. I've done the only black lead they've had in casting for 40 seasons. And one question I always get is the questions about race and diversity. And partly is because I am black. And And two is because that I'm the only person who will speak out against this in this franchise. It has been refreshing for me to see leads in this franchise actually be passionate, not all of them, but actually be passionate and speak out against and not against before Black Lives Matter.

So my question to you is with, this is Wednesday, Tuesday, we saw hashtag, Blackout Tuesday, and you saw a lot of people post the blackout. A lot of people say that they are muting themselves because they are trying to uplift, amplify, and listen to Black Voices. What was your take on hashtag Blackout Tuesday? And yeah, no, no, no. Just answer that. I don't really have one, to be honest with you. I think that it was something that people were doing that was trying to establish or sort of reinforce the idea of solidarity. And I personally believe that the only way out of really the problems that America is facing, like really, the only real way is solidarity.

The only real way to figure out how much we spend on things is whether or not you care that the old widower across the street has enough Medicaid, has enough Social Security, has enough all of that. of that stuff so you'll be willing to pay maybe a 50 cents a dollar two dollars three dollars four dollars five dollars ten dollars a thousand dollars more in taxes right um we have to care about each other enough to actually make sacrifices for one another uh and that's what solidarity is now um you want to say something bad and when you say solidarity are you speaking of races outside of the black race no well no i'm talking about societal solidarity so what i mean so

But everybody, right? Like everybody has to come together to make some change. Well, I mean, this is what I mean. I mean, look, at the end of the day, if I dip into my more militant back, for me, the only solidarity right now that I'm really concerned about is a solidarity among, solidarity amongst the black race. Because I feel like, amongst the black community, should I say, because I feel like that's the only solidarity that we can really count on. We can't continue to ask America at large to invest. and care about our problems if generation after generation they're going to show that they don't. Now, what you've seen on the streets here just recently might signal that there's a sea change

as far as the group of people who care because the protests have been so diverse. So maybe you can start to believe that there are going to be people outside of that that care a little bit more. Can I flip my hair back for a second? Ladies and gentlemen, we are in episode three of higher learning. and at this point I'm going to fact check man who in episode one we had a heated argument about needing help and you kind of kind of came at me

about saying we need help from our non-black brothers and sisters Jordan but you but you but you didn't listen to what I said what I just said was that no what I know but what I just said was that the only solidarity I really care about is solidarity in from inside the black community and what I'm saying is I'm hopeful that there might be more help, but I don't think that we need it. You know what I mean? That's a nice save, Van. That's a nice save, Van.

Go ahead. No, that's what I'm saying. Go ahead. Continue. No, what I'm saying is I just said before then, I said, I don't think that we can that we can hold out hope and wait for that help. Like, I don't think that we need it. But if they gave it to us, it's not like I wouldn't accept it. But watching what you've seen this past week, because I remember when we talked last episode and you were saying it's been very nice to see look at protests that.

There's, it's so diverse. I mean, in a lot, and the protest I was in, I was the minority. And so I think that maybe that has made you think, okay, you know, we cannot. It's, it's what it's made me think that maybe possibly people will be more willing than their parents were. But. Okay. Okay. It hasn't changed my mind that like, we need, like, we need solidarity amongst ourselves and really the only people that we can rely on is ourselves.

But I guess that belief in solidarity kind of makes me think that anything that everybody is trying to do together just as a little training exercise is a good thing. So whereas the blackout annoyed a lot of people and they saw it as something frivolous, I thought that anything that people were trying to come together to do was kind of cool. The blackout didn't annoy me. It's my fear. And maybe this is me being and I hate to use this term. but I do fall it sometimes into the category of being an influencer. And it is becoming so trendy, which I'm not going to, I'm not going to knock people because this is a positive thing that is trending.

But my fear, the realistic side of me is, okay, trends fade off. Something else becomes trendy. You move on and you forget what it is and why you were fighting, not fighting, but why this thing was popular to you. So my fear is, well, how long is this trend going to last? At the end of the protest, when it's not all that we see on the news and in our social media feeds, what do you do? What happens next?

What action will you take? And that's what makes me fear about being muted right now and uplifting black voices and blackout Tuesday because next week, is my voice still going to be popular? is the cause that I'm fighting for still going to be a trend? You know, for us it is, Van, because we wake up and we see black every single day and what we do.

We live, eat, breathe black. But for those who don't and aren't directly impacted by it, where are you going to be next week? That's my feet. That's what, that's why I asked you about Blackout Tuesday. That's why I ask you about the social media trend because it is my fear that next week

we're going to be talking about something else. Well, if next week, but they were. But next week, if the world has moved on, we can't. Yeah. And we have to kind of make,

because what really happens is it's not so much even that people outside the community move on is that we move on to, is that there's something else for us to. And that's why it's very important in moments like this. Say this all the time,

but it's very important in moments like this to uplift people who are doing activism every day. They're not doing activism when someone's hurt or killed or where someone's arrested unfairly or when someone can't get service in a store or get a cab in New York. They're doing activism every day, seven days a week. It's their job. It's their life's work. Those are the people. Yeah. The Tamika Mallories of the world, the Misons of the world, the Philibagh news of the world. Jesse Williams put me in touch with a great group and I'm going to fumble the name of the group. Then there was a great call on Monday night. I met so many amazing activists on that call,

right? Those are the people that we need to uplift, keep engaged, keep funded, and keep on the tips of our tongues because they're doing it every single day. They're going to remind us and then we can remind everybody else. When you remember, will you send that so I can like share that? I want to share that with everyone because so many people ask, how do I keep going? I feel like I've done all that I know to do. And I'm trying to figure out how to do more. And it's like, well, if you follow these people who are in the trenches and are doing it

every single day, that you don't have to ask that question anymore. So I would love to share that with my following. Yeah. I mean, look, and there are certain people that wear many hats. Like Jesse is a guy. Shout out to Jesse Williams, man. who wears the hat of not just sexy-ass doctor on ABC's Grey's Anatomy. Yeah.

Oh, sexy, light eyes. He also is an incredibly engaged real activist. Like, he's like, he's not playing around. He's for real with it, right? So a guy like that, what is it called? Now, it's called the Advancement Project, something that Jesse is on the board of. he is a big, big deal. Like, I talked to activists in Louisville.

I talked to activists in Minnesota. And there's another call where we're going to solidify some of the things that we're doing. But it was just fantastic. And it was good to know that these people are out here because there are certain ones that, like, get a lot of press, right? They do a lot of things in a grandiose way. And then there are certain people that just got to do the paperwork. There are certain people that just got to make the calls to the DAs.

And there are certain people that got to just, like, have to do the work that has to get done to make sure that these things are actually moving forward in the right way. And that's an activist. I'm not an activist. I'm a guy who's clued in culturally, include in societally to some of these things that want to use my voice to try to bring power and awareness to those people. So I have to better educate myself on all of the ones

that I want to get out there. Philip is great. Tamika is great. Philip Agnew is a great guy. And the dream defenders down there in Florida, great organization. Jason Wilson in the cave of Adelham up there in Detroit, all of these places. It's fantastic. But we have to make sure that their voices are loud, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

No, absolutely. I mean, I couldn't agree with you more. I feel the pressure of people coming to me as if I am an activist and I'm not. I just have a platform and a voice that I try to use to push forward initiatives that I feel like are important than other people need to hear as well, specifically with what's going on right now. So, like... Just quick, can we take a, can we do something real quick? Can we take a Bachelor break?

Can we take a Bachelor break real quick? I just want to do something real quick. Like, what's the latest in the world of The Bachelor? Like, he can't help yourself. Like, you're low-key. No, I know you've never watched the season, but you're so interested and you don't want to admit it. And that's okay.

That's okay. I feel like maybe that's part of the reason why I'm your co-host. Like, you're so curious about it. You've covered it before. We've talked about this. There's nothing going on in Bachelor world at this point because there's no season on right now. All production is halted.

Do you think that like they could be like some kind of like Bachelor crossover to like what's going on right now? Like this is the kind of way that the Bachelor, because think about it because the Bachelor likes to get in on, you know what I'm saying? Get in on what? What do they get in on? What the Bachelor? Am I wrong?

Doesn't The Bachelor like to be up on all the current events and stuff like that? Like, yeah. You definitely don't watch the show. The show has at the same format since it started like 19 years ago. The show has everything. Nothing is current. Why don't they do? Why don't they do?

Listen to me. I'm going into serious mode voice again. Okay. Okay. Why don't they do the COVID Bachelor? All Bachelor, all Zoom. Okay? Like, and you know that this will be the season that they have a black guy on

because we get the most bootleg shit. So all Zoom are all Zoom bachelor. All Zoom. That way, all the freaky shit that goes on on the show, which I hear about, by the way, that does it, that's not a thing. And that way, it could be really love. And you can tell that you're not a fan of the show

because people like to see the physical interactions between the contestants. So that's how I know you don't watch the show, because that's part of the... People like to see the physical... They fucking on there? Well, they go to fantasy suites. They close the door, but I mean, they're in hot tub.

What? Van, this, you don't know about it. Whoa. Whoa. How do you not know about the fantasy suite? What's the fantasy suite? Okay. I feel like I'm talking to myself three years ago.

So when you make it to the top three in the show, you get what's called a fantasy suite. Should the lead invite you to it? So Chris Harrison gives you a day card and a key and you read the day card and you say, would you like to join me in the fantasy suite? And if they say yes, because who says no? You say yes, it's the first time that you get to be alone behind closed doors with the lead. If you're a contestant, it's just the two of you. No cameras.

You spend the night together and the cameras and the producers do not come back till the next morning. And the lead does it three times. So, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. Okay, okay. So when I said that there was freakingness going on, what I was talking about was maybe a little heavy petting, maybe some kissing and all that stuff like that. That happens to.

I'm sure, like, but you're telling me that on the Bachelor, the Bachelor, the main bachelor and the Bachelorette, the main guy or the main lady, they are, we're actually having sex with people before there's things, there's sex happening. So you put words into my mouth.

You don't, you don't know what happens. You don't know what happens behind closed doors, but you get an entire night to talk about things that they don't let you talk about. You get to spend the night with each other for the first time. You're alone for the first time. It is implied that there is some sexual activity.

But that doesn't always happen. And it's implied. It doesn't. I can speak from experience because I went through it. I'm not going to ask you about your, that's distasteful. I'm not going to ask you about choice. I'll tell you, not every fantasy suite is about sex because that didn't happen for me in all my fantasy

sweet. Rachel, can I ask you a question though on the bachelor? Are they fucking or not? That's what I want to know. Is it happening on the bachelor? Absolutely. And most recently, most recently in Hannah Brown's season, she bragged about it and said how many times that she did it in a windmill with this person.

in a windmill? They were in Greece, Sweden, Switzerland. I don't know. They were in some place where windmills are popular. You don't know any of this. Everybody at least knows about the fantasy suites.

It's the whole thing. Never heard of it. All right. What's the thing? Top three people get a fantasy suite. Okay, which episode is the fantasy suite episode? When does that start? Week 9, second to last week.

So here's how twisted it is. you go to hometowns and you with your top four and you go into meet everyone's family. The lead meets everyone's family and they talk about, you know, will you accept a marriage? You got to meet these people who are not in this world who are not fans of it. Then you go to Fantasy Suite with your top three. Then you're left with your last two and that's who you decide who you're going to accept a proposal for. This all happens in a matter of like five or six days. Separate.

That's how it goes. Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. You can see why most. couples don't make it. Yeah, I might have to start watching the bachelor. Just the fantasy sweet episode, though. Because I want to see how it goes down. I just want to see the fantasy sweet episode.

All right, look. Okay. We have to discuss something here as a family. So, you are listening to the Higher Learning podcast with Big Rache, Rachel Lindsay. Yep. Fantasy sweet veteran. And myself, Van Lake. This is a podcast that has to do with pop culture, sports,

basically anything that happens anywhere, we're willing to talk about it, and we're willing to try to elevate the discussion of. Absolutely. Being that we have, that what we're trying to do is bring a specific cultural discussion to the Ringer, which, by the way, we should say that there are,

there's fantastic talent. here at the ringer of color. Larry Wilmore had a podcast here. Guys like Tyler and Micah and Jordan, somebody that works on this podcast with us. You know, and in the past they've had, obviously guys like Remberg,

Wesley Morris, like those people have always existed here at the ringer and they've really put their thumbprint on the culture here and left both room for us to grow for some of the people that are still here. and it really helped me. Raymond Wesley specifically have really helped me and really guided me.

And then other people, you know, Tommy Alter and people like that who are at least culture adjacent that kind of have helped me understand things here. There was a podcast that happened on, I guess, the flagship podcast, you would say, which is the Bill Simmons podcast. Bill Simmons is obviously the boss of the ringer with a colleague of ours named Ryan Rosilla. And since that podcast has been on, it happened Sunday after Friday and Saturday, which is when Sunday comes. But this particular Friday and Saturday were a little bit different. This particular Friday and Saturday saw the most heated and the most sort of serious,

the most dangerous, for some people, the most uplifting, for me, the most in a way effective, of the uprisings that we've seen. It was the first time that we realized that there was real civil unrest and civil disobedience that was happening all over America. Bill and Ryan talked about this

and just gave their thoughts on the entire ball of wax in terms of what this was. Since people have listened to that podcast, they have had very swift reactions. let me just be honest with you. Black people,

to put it very bluntly, feel pissed off a lot of the ones that I've talked to at specifically Ryan Riscilla. A lot of things that Ryan Rissillo said during the podcast, people think, struck the wrong chord. Some of them,

quite frankly, people thought were un-American. Before we get into discussing this, which in order to discuss this, to be a podcast that's really about expressing our true feelings on things, we can't not talk about things that happen outside of the house and not talk about things that are going on here at the shop.

I know that you heard this, you heard it a little bit earlier. As far as some of Ryan's comments and some of the remarks that he made, did you want to talk and share your feelings about it? Yeah. I mean, I was, I don't know. I listened to it. I listened to the comments and the conversation between the two.

This is how I felt. When I was listening to it, I was like, okay, I get the point of a podcast, right? We have one. And I get that if you're supposed to feel like you're listening to two friends, kind of talk, kind of shoot the stuff, that one's for you, mom, instead of cursing. And you're supposed to feel like you're kind of peeking in on a conversation and you feel like you're at home. You're one with them.

When I heard this conversation, it felt like the conversation that maybe I should be listening to. It felt like a conversation that maybe should have been behind closed doors, and I'm more so specifically speaking to the things that Ryan was saying. There were a couple of things that really bothered me about what he said. It was what he was highlighting in his conversation, right? Of course, you have to talk about what has transpired over this past week because it is so relevant to our, to America and to us as citizens in every single way. what bothered me was rather than talking about the purpose and the reason behind these protests and what these protests stand for and how majority of them have been peaceful, the focus was shifted to the looting and what was negative and what was bad about it. And I just felt like, one, there are other people that can talk about this. And then two, I was just disappointed from Ryan's perspective of what he was highlighting. He kept talking about the looting, the looting.

looting. And when you listen, when you think about what looting is, it's about taking what, the value from a store. It's about taking goods from a store. What's valuable, you're taking away from it. I felt like he was looting the purpose of the protest in his conversation. I felt like he was taking the value out of something good rather than shining a light and the reason behind the reason of it. And that's what really, really got to me. I felt like, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just put it, put it there because I could keep going about certain things that bothered me. But the main thing was he polluted the reason and the purpose behind the protest. And if you're going to talk about it and you're going to shine light on it, you can't brag about how you haven't said anything on social media.

And you haven't done anything and you talk about what's all the wrong that's being done, but you don't move the conversation forward and how you're actually trying to do something positive towards the movement. or what you have actually done to push the movement forward in a good direction. I also didn't like his Trump comments, but I'll let you, I'll defer to you at this point. I'll address those two. So, yeah, I thought you put that beautifully and quite eloquently. I'll tell you just kind of my takeaway from it. So being black in America comes with an understanding of something is that the deepest, darkest parts of yourself will all. always be highlighted, right? So there's a brilliant monologue that Orlando Jones gave on a show

called American Gods. Orlando Jones is no longer on American Gods, and it might be because of this monologue. What he said was, in America, when a white person fucks up, it's looked at as a good person that's done a bad thing. And when a black person messes up, it looks as if they're showing America who they really were the entire time. And that assessment, to me, uh, rings true. Whenever something happens to where we act in any way, which is out of line with people, the way people think that we should act and people go, okay, that's who that's who that person really is. That person, that's who they are. That's who they, there's no such thing as a mistake. It's no such thing as an error in judgment.

I'm not even saying so much that the, the, the, the, the more violent parts of the protests were an error in judgment. What I'm saying is that to look at the entire ball of wax there and then pull out the part of it that specifically makes us look bad is incredibly

disappointing. And when I hit Bill about this, it was enraging. I wasn't disappointed or hurt about what Ryan Rusillo said. I was all those things. But more than anything, I was pissed the fuck off. And for a split second, I was embarrassed.

I was embarrassed to be here for a split second. Yeah, no, it's understandable. I have since talked to Ryan, and Ryan has addressed this on his podcast. He's addressed this on his podcast. When I talked to him, he was, he was, we were able to have an open and honest conversation sort of about what he thought that he was doing

and what I feel like it was that he actually did. What I feel like what he actually did was what you said, was loot the entire issue, detract the humanity from it, and concentrate on the criminality and not on the crime. The crime is the loss of life of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor and Amad Arbery and all of that. If you don't start the conversation by discussing the system that leads to that, I don't see how we can have a conversation about the Adidas store losing some stock. It's weird to me.

It shows kind of sometimes what we feel like, which is, do some of the people that we think are just normal dues, everyday people, cool people, do they really care about how our lives are affected? Because if you care about that, I find it difficult to talk about stores getting looted when life is being lost. The other thing that bothered me was this. Me and Ryan talked about this. There was something that he said about specifically,

a Trump voter. And I'm going to discuss this right here. I'm not going to police who people voted for. That's on you. But I will say that your vote does say something. Okay? What he said on the podcast was that a lot of people vote selfishly. He made it clear he was not exactly an Obama fan,

but he thinks a lot of people vote selfishly. They vote their interests. They vote for whatever it is that means something to them. And there are other things about candidates that they might be willing to overlook if it means a better tax rate or a different corporate structure or things like that. I want people to understand what that sounds like in my ear. As a child, as a man, what we're told is we're going to have a better country the more everybody thinks about everybody else.

Ask not what your country will do for you. Ask what you can do for your country. We're taught that. Great quote by JFK. We're taught, you know, our military is amazing. They give of more than themselves. Like, charity work is amazing. Philanthropy is amazing.

People that go into public service that are amazing. Cops are amazing. Why? Because they put themselves in harm's way so that other people can be safe and that we can have a harmonious justice-filled, safe society. Yeah. And that we're all supposed to do that. Okay.

but when white guys who are rich get ready to vote, it's all of a sudden, fuck you. It's all of a sudden, yeah, it is. Like, it's all of a sudden, your president won't denounce David Duke. How easy is it to denounce David Duke? He won't step away from white supremacists,

but that's okay because I want a better tax rate. It's okay that you're going to get screwed by a guy, who in the back of his mind, not even in the back of his mind, who won't divorce himself from white supremacy. But that's cool that you're going to go through that. But over here, this is what's going to happen to me. So I'm going to preserve my America

while you continue to live in yours. That's precisely the attitude that we have to fix in this country. Now, in full disclosure, when I explain that to Ryan, he was receptive, he was respectful, and he was apologetic. All of those things. I'm not about to do any caping because like he told me on the phone,

he is a big boy and he can handle this. Yeah. When I said that to him, he said, I have no retort for that. I have no combat for that. And I'm not trying to say that I want upped him or anything like that. I've met Rosillo before. He seemed like a nice enough guy.

I did his podcast, treating me with respect. But hopefully, not just for him, but for everybody involved, this is a teachable moment about the seriousness of the part of history that we're in right now and about how we be better allies to each other going forward. And it should also be a notice to everybody that's in the aura of Rachel Lindsay and Van Lathen, that we are attacking these things in a very specific way. and nothing is out of bounds. No, I think that's a great point.

Were you finished? Were you finished with you saying? No, yeah, I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. But I'm saying, just don't think like, like, he did apologize, he did talk about it. And hopefully he'll do better.

And hopefully I can be a part of the education and we can all be a part of growing not only this podcast, but this brand into something that takes all of these things into consideration before we put content out there. And I will only say add to that that this is the type of what we're seeing happening right now in America is hopefully generating these type of conversations where you can have these uncomfortable conversations.

Van, you can share your perspective. Ryan can share his and you can have a mutual respect from each other and maybe hopefully learn something from it. And I think that it's so important that maybe you didn't change his mind in that conversation, but at least you were able to have that conversation, which is more than we can say about how things have done been done in the past. Not between YouTube, but just in general. No, I'm with it.

I'm with it. So, you know, we've addressed that. We've talked about that. I'm looking forward. I wanted to have them on this podcast today. I was about to say, we should have a podcast. We'll wait until we get closer to the election. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I wanted to have them in this podcast today. But look, here, man, like we're doing our best to share. our true hearts and our true values and our true perspectives with you. And that's not going to be always the easiest thing to do. It's just not. It's not. Sometimes a conversation is going to be uncomfortable. It's never uncomfortable for me. But I can understand how it could be uncomfortable for some of our coworkers.

I can understand how I could be uncomfortable for Ryan. I can understand how it could be uncomfortable for Bill or for whoever else is listening, kind of hearing this. But yeah, if we can talk about Drew Brees saying something stupid, then we can certainly say. Your quarterback. Your quarterback at that. My quarterback, yeah, I'm just, it's all over the place.

But look, all we can hope for is after stuff like that, that people realize it, people address it, and people moved on. Absolutely. To his credit, he did that. So let's see what happens now. Rachel, you got anything else for the people? No, I think it was beautifully said. I love that. That's what I love about this podcast is, yes, we like making people maybe feel uncomfortable.

I'm quite confrontational myself. But we are having this open dialogue and having. having these uncomfortable conversations that maybe can help somebody else in moving forward and doing the same thing or just understanding the issue at hand. That's what higher learning is. All right. We got another podcast. Like,

what are you doing tonight? What are you cooking for dinner? I'm always, I'm asking a random question at the end of every podcast. What are you doing for dinner? Love it. I'm making steak. I'm making rabbi steak.

I'm going to cook it in the oven, but also on top of the stove as well. You got to sear it on top of the stove, cooking an oven. I sound like I really cook. I don't, but I am cooking tonight, and I'll probably make my famous Brussels sprouts as well. Okay. So this is what we're going to do. We're going to have a steak off. I don't want to enter.

I just said I don't cook, man. Don't try to enter me in a competition. First of all, we're going to have a steak off. And anytime somebody makes a steak, I got to let people know that what I do with a steak is amazing. And I will give it to you. No, stake off in two weeks, higher learning stakeoff on Instagram, Van Lathen versus Rachel Lindsay. If there's still supermarkets at that time, I don't know if there will be. But like, if there's still supermarkets at that time, stake off.

You ain't? I mean, I've never, I've never backed away from a competition. Let's go. Oh, that's what I'm talking about. All right. Let's go. I am Van Lathen. And I'm Rachel Lindsay.

All right, that's enough learning for today. take your thinking caps off, but don't throw them away. Keep them on. Listen, learn, respect each other, love each other, we are.