Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Eric Adams Indicted and Symone Sanders-Townsend Talks the Black Women's Vote

Episode Date: September 27, 2024

Van and Rachel react to the indictment of New York Mayor Eric Adams (8:07) and give a quick update on the state of Mark Robinson’s political career after his Nude Africa posts (16:30). Then cohost of MSNBC’s ‘The Weekend’ Symone Sanders-Townsend joins to discuss the role Black women will play in the 2024 election (24:08). Finally, they talk Brett Favre’s Parkinson’s diagnosis (50:07) and react to Cardi B and Offset’s online fight (57:55). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Symone Sanders-Townsend Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought, why, y'arch? What is up? High Learning is on and is I, Van Lathan, Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. Rachel? Yeah. You better check yourself for your record yourself because I'm bad for your help.

I call real stuff dropping bombs on your mom. Kill call on. Doing foul crimes, I'm that nigga with the Alpine. Who is that? I know the song. A little bit before your time. This is not, this is a little bit before your time, I should say. But I know the song.

I just, I just can't. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. It's, oh, oh, oh. That's the original. If you file, you better run a make on that license plate. You could have had a B-8. Instead of a 28 plus to your brain,

I got six and I aiming them. Will I bust or keep your guessing or kill you and that noise you stressing, bitch? Trick, get off the wood, you know, good. that goes to neighborhood. Go ahead and keep your drop. Come on, man. Donnie knows. Donnie on that shit.

Donnie, who is that? Ice cube. Ice cube. Oh, come on, Rachel. But I have the original. See, that actually gives you like, because he's sample that shit, right? So that gives you, you know,

that's actually maybe more impressive that you know that joint, even though it's very things. But I don't know. I was just listening to that this morning. I've been on my old school rap. I guess that's not old school.

I guess it will kind of be old school. So there's something that got going on. The fuzziness of the mustache is getting me into cowboy mode. I just might let everything go for the fall season. I'm with it. Just let it all go, you know. You should. I saw, did you see the trailer for the movie Cinners with Michael B. Jordan directed by.

Ryan Coogler? Yeah. No, I just saw the cover art. What does it look? The cover art looks creepy. I love a scary movie. I'm telling you something right now. Michael B. Jordan and Ryan Coogler never miss.

Ryan Coogh. Michael, he has appeared in every movie that Ryan Coogler has directed. Really? Wow. Rubelle Station. Creed. Black Panther.

Black Panther Wakanda Forever. the whole slate. All right. And now what is it called? Sinners. Sinners. It's just sinners. Yeah, but I saw a lot of good trailers dropping.

The ballerina trailer, John Wick movie came out. A lot of the trailers coming out there, Gladiator 2 trailer. Some of these movies are next year. Some of these movies are this year. As the Nerdworld waits for the Superman trailer, which will probably come out around the Super Bowl. You know what I'm saying?

Which Cowboys won't be in. So you'll have a lot of time. to watch trailers. Justice League. The Justice League. Now, question. Superman. Yeah. He's the Justice League. I mean, he's the leader of the Justice League, but this isn't a Justice League movie. Even though Justice League is, I'll be allowed.

Remember, I didn't know that before. I'm growing here. I know that. Who's playing Superman? David Cornswain. Is this his first time playing? No, he's a guy that's in, it's a big role for him. He's been in a couple of different movies. He had a small role in that movie Twisters. Okay.

I haven't seen that yet. Wait a minute. I know. Why are you saying it like that? I haven't seen it yet. Ain't that your people? Yes. And I haven't seen it yet.

So you can go to a nigger's ranch and chill. But with his movie drop, you don't go see the movie? It's all my to-do list. Oh, my God. This is why. I'm talking about. This is a type of shit I'm talking about. You come to my shit and ride horses and drink Casamigos, right?

But when my shit drop, you don't go see my shit? Oh, my word. I still support it. I tell people to see it. I still support. I'm going to see it, okay? It's too late now the theatrical run of the movie is over. It did really well.

It was a big deal for him, but you wouldn't know because that's your people. You didn't go see the movie. That's crazy, terrible bad. I'm proud. But he was in that. He was in another movie called Pearl. There's been a couple of things. He's bubbling.

But he fits the Superman mode. It's very funny. We were watching the movie. We were watching Twisters. And he comes on the screen. And Kaliga goes, wow. He looks like Clark Kent. She didn't even know.

Wow. Okay. So this is exciting. It's exciting. Directed by James Gunn. G-U-N-N. Yeah, you know James. Okay.

Did that movie with those different-looking characters? I can't think of the movie with the raccoon, right? Gargson. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. I mean, look, you don't know. You don't watch movies. Does he not do that movie?

Did he not do the last one? Thank you. I interviewed him. He did it. Yeah. I remember you had to watch the movie. Yeah. You have to watch the movie before. I didn't. They did not give it to us before. I did not get to see that movie before.

Guard of the Galaxy 3 was a very tough movie to watch because it had a lot of cute animals that met their demise. Yeah. I know it's a lot about the raccoons. Rocket. Rocket is a back store. And I know these things. And it was I cried throughout the entire movie. I'll never watch it again. I cried throughout the entire movie. movie. Like Rocket, I cry. When I tell you, no, he doesn't. I,

I cried throughout the entire movie. I'll never look at it again. I watched the one time and it was fantastic. It was Rocket, his animal friends, he meets his animal, I'm about to get emotional right now. He meets his animal friends in heaven and a part of the movie. The movie was too much. Like, I cried throughout the whole movie. I can't

take anything going wrong with animals. Like, I love animals and I can't take anything happening to animals. I see these. I see these people and they like fuck over these animals in different countries and I donate to these animal charities

and all of this stuff. I think that these people, when they find them, that they've tortured these animals, I think that they should be put to death, which is very interesting to be saying that. I was just going to say come on now. Come on now.

Sure of best. Anyway. Real quick question about the animals. Because this is the case for me. I know you've always loved animals, but did it increase this feeling that you had when you got Bozeman? Because I'm wondering if you see Bozeman in every animal, because I see copper in every animal.

And that's what makes it even harder. Do you? You see Bose? Yeah. I do. It started before that, though. Okay. And it would have to be a really tough story that I would tell about my father.

And of all the stories, I'll tell about my father. This is one that I won't tell. But I had to stand in the gap for an animal back of the day. I'll say that. I had to protect an animal. And so, yeah, that's all I'm saying. Look, we got a show today.

We got Simone Sanders on the show, and we got a lot of political news. As we're doing this podcast right now, the Internet is really, over the revelation that Eric Adams, the embattled mayor of New York City, has been fucking indicted. Now, there was a lot of smoke around this. A lot of people on his team were getting indicted. A lot of his staff was getting indicted.

Five federal charges of robbery fraud and soliciting illegal foreign campaign donations. Jesus Christ. Eric, what the fuck are you doing? The indictment claims that a senior official in the Turkish diplomatic establishment both facilitated illegal donations to Adams campaign, and bestowed gifts on him, including free or discounted Turkish Airlines flights to France,

Turkey, China, India, and Hungary and other donate destination. Adams pressured the city's fire department to approve the opening of a new high-rise consulate Turkey in Midtown Manhattan, so we've got a quick pro quo going on here. In time for a visit by the Turkish president at the Turkish official's instruction indictment says. did so, even though the building had failed a fire inspection. So Eric Adams was willing to put the people of New York City in harm's way to pay off his Turkish overlords. Turkey's not the only country here, but allegedly. Allegedly, it was in an indictment.

And this is funny. The federal agent seized his phone, his cell phone. And she said that he had recently changed the phone's password and couldn't remember the new password. They couldn't open the phone, couldn't remember the new half password. They had to break it and get all this stuff. Some of the stuff in the indictment, the very clear way that they were discussing all of the improper things that they were doing, it's mind-blowingly stupid on behalf of Eric Adams. Well, like, I'm sorry.

This is the most least surprising indictment that I've seen. They've been investigating him since 2021. Before he even stepped into the mayor's office, he had issues when he was a state senator. There were even issues that came up when he was on the police force. I mean, he did, the charges didn't move forward in those instances, but trouble and corruption has followed Eric Adams. And the fact that like I said, he's been investigated since 2021. and now it's just all coming to fruition. That coupled with a number of senior people in his staff administration have also either stepped down or have been the subject of the investigations as well.

Some people have even turned on him in light of all of this that used to work with him. So, shocking, Van, shocking. So Eric, so Eric, who has been profound. only pro cop. Let's talk about that since he, since his time as, you know, the mayor of New York. He, uh, this morning decided that he was going to come home. Of course, um, when it is, the chips are against you. It's always time to come back home. We always talk about who we're going to let come to this fictitious cookout. Really what we should be discussing, because the cookout is a bunch of bullshit. Really what we should be discussing is who are we going to let come home when they

get in trouble? Because when people get in trouble, they always try to come back home. OJ. try to come back home. I'm always being persecuted when I'm black. They come back home. You know, at first, Eric Adams, he's not black. He's blue. He's a cop. But now he wants to surround himself with black clergy as he stands before the people of New York and really the people of America to explain what the fuck was going on in his phone and with some of these other governments. This was the audio this morning when he in front surrounded, should I say, by all of these black people and tried to make this a racial persecution. This is what he got from the people in New York.

This is not a black guy. This is not a black guy. This is a youth thing. This is a youth thing, Eric Adams. This is not a black guy. Your policies are anti-black. You are the strength to all black people in this city. The things that you have done are unconscionable.

You hurt our schools. Our streets are dirty. Our children are harassed by our police. This is ridiculous. This is ridiculous. You can just be all you want when the people are with us. And this is not a black day. This is a justice day.

Well, the people have spoken. You better go to the Turkish. Yeah, too, they got for you over there. Yeah, or the other countries that you are allegedly tied to with corruption, because black people aren't having it. And I'm happy to see it. I'm happy to see it. I just want to say that.

I know this is all alleged, but a lot of people have not been satisfied with Eric Adams in office in there in New York, particularly black people have been very, I was spoken. When I'm in New York, I see so many fuck Eric Adams signs painted on the sides of buildings, the signs hanging over buildings. It's a lot. And the fact that, and I like that black people are like, you know what, we're not doing that anymore. We're not going to come to save you because nobody will fight harder for you than black people. And I just like the energy. I'm sorry. You know, Eric Adams has cast himself in the role of New York's top cop and, you know, he's talked about the sanctity of the profession, the police and all of that stuff. And I think that's very telling here that oftentimes as black people, and as people, period, what we're talking about is the corruption that exists inside of these institutions. that we are told are infallible and incorruptible, and that deserve the benefit of the doubt in every single situation in America.

Doesn't matter who they killed, doesn't matter who they hurt, doesn't matter who dies under their custody, or in their custody, it doesn't matter yet, stuff. They deserve the benefit of the doubt because what is they're doing. We dig deeper into these professions, we see that they are rife with corruption,

that they are filled with, And a lot of times, people who are out for themselves, trying to get ahead for themselves, and who don't care about the people that they're supposed to be serving and protecting. It's interesting that this guy who's cast himself in this way would be willing, allegedly, according to the indict. He's not has been in court yet, to put the people in New York in harm's way by bypassing an inspection. Like, that's legitimately, legitimately putting people in harm's way, right? Not saying that the building wasn't safe or anything like that.

I'm saying that if you bypass those regulations, those regulations seemingly are there for a reason, right? Of course, that could all be glad-handed and stuff like that, who you got to pay to get the expectations done and all of that stuff too. But what I'm saying is you would think that the most important thing for somebody like the mayor would be to make sure that that place is up to code and that it's safe. But no, he's got something else to think about. When we talk about these institutions and their fallibility,

these are the types of things that we're talking about. So just, it's interesting. Not surprising. Not surprising. Not surprising at all. But it's interesting. Oh, by the way,

just let everybody know, he's a Democrat. So everyone that says Democrats get protected by all of these different people and forces, whatever, they fucking hung him up, put him up on the spit. He's a Democrat.

And the FBI is getting to him. Good on them. Eric Adams. It's not very popular there. And we'll see how. this all shakes out. Let's take a quick break. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start.

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18 plus. Bonus is non-withdrawable and expires seven days after receipt. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investments. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See terms at Fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. Real quick, everybody's surrounding Mark Robinson is quit. They all quit.

They got the hell out of there. His staff members, his chief of staff, his general counsel, his policy director, the director of communications, director of government affairs, all quit.

Newtafrica.com is not where they wanted to go, and so they're gone. All right. Mark Robinson is not going to win for governor of North Carolina. The question is how the Democrats and the Republicans at the top of their respective tickets deal with a lot of this misconduct from the underlings, whether or not Mark Robinson is able to be police.

politicized as an example of Republicans from C to Shining and whether or not people like Eric Adams are able to be made an example of this is a Democrat from C to shine, whether or not people are able to pounce on that type of situation. Mark Robinson is an elected official. I think people act like he's not, he's the lieutenant governor of South Carolina. Correct. So he has a constituency there to. deliver for. So it's fucked. We've seen a lot of these guys taking some vibes. Rachel, I don't want to talk too much

about Michael, about Mark Robinson, but do you have anything to say before we leave? No, I hope he goes down flames. Get them both. Yeah, get them all out. I mean, yeah. I mean, it should be noted he's hired a lawyer to investigate where and how these false smears. This is a quote, originated. Good luck with that, Mark Robinson. Good luck. So we're talking to Simone Sanders a little bit after this. Before we get into it, did you see

Vice President Harris sat down with MSNBC and did Stephanie Rule there and did an interview there about some of her economic stuff? What did you think about? I mean, it shipped out a speech before.

I wasn't, it was a 20, less than 25 minute interview. several topics were discussed. I think a lot of people were curious to hear if she was going to dive more into detail with some of her policies. She did, but I mean, I wasn't, nothing big came out of it for me.

I feel like I really learned that much. What about you? It will be interesting to talk to Simone Sanders about this. Simone Sanders Townsend is going to join us right after we discussed this to talk a little bit about this amazing special she has coming up about black women voters on MSNBC. see, but also about, you know, what she knows about running a campaign and, you know, her time with

with Kamala Harris. It's interesting. It's, if you're going to do an interview to me, it shouldn't feel like just checking boxes. And it did. And it did. And so. Same talking points from the debate. Right.

So to me, if you're going to do an interview and she has some interviews coming up, I'm interested to see what the All of the Smoke interview, she's gone on All of the Smoke with Matt and Stack to see what comes out of that because I know that Matt probably is closer to her politics. I know that Stack is not. So I'm interested to see how that goes. But, you know,

the most important thing about an interview or doing an interview is having something to say in that interview. that answers questions that people have. And this interview was just kind of, she strikes the right cord. Don't get me wrong, she's such an impressive woman. She's such an impressive political candidate. She strikes right forward.

But after I'm finished with it, I kind of feel like it was a waste of time watching it. You know, it just, it didn't, you know, I don't know what I'm expecting to see, right? But it's interesting. It didn't feel like there was anything to it that made me go, okay, well, wow, I'm glad you cleared that up. Well, it worked at the debate because it was the first time we really seen that from her.

She'd been given the opportunity to do it, and we saw her address things in a bigger way, even if it might not have been as in depth as people wanted. So I'm expecting to build on that, not hear the literal exact same thing, that were said on the debate stage. So I think that's why it landed a certain way for me. And there were direct questions that were asked.

And they were talked about in a roundabout, they were answered in a roundabout way. And I wasn't expecting that in this interview. I wanted more. If the question is this, what color is the sky? I want you to say blue and why. And that's not what it was. It was, well, you know, I think I'm past that.

I'm from the kid of, I'm a kid of middle class people. And when we look up at the sky, you know, all different types of people, they see all different types of skies where they're from. Some people can't see the sky. Some people can't see the sky. Some people don't have a roof over their head. Some people see the sky all the time because we have to deal with, it's like, you know what I'm saying? It's like.

It's like, you know like when a quarterback, when the clock is getting low and the quarterback is trying to get the ball, and he's like like give me the rock it's kind of like that I get what you're saying I mean I don't want to hold her I mean there's binary choice Donald Trump doesn't ask you'll ask him a question

and then he'll start talking about China or or Tariff's vagina vagina or something like that so I'm not saying that she's doing a typical politician thing but I actually think that she shines when she is

has a little bit of opposition when she's a little bit more uncomfortable. I think that's when she's at her best, which is going to make her an effective and strong leader. And this, it just kind of, it was just kind of like blah, whatever. It didn't, it didn't move me at all. Yeah.

Yeah. And I, I, I expected that. I think I was just hoping for a little bit more. But, you know. However, once again, not asking for anything more than you would be asking for, asking for from the standard politician, and that's kind of the way things go.

I think as long as she hasn't stepped in it, it'll be pretty good. I think you're starting to see a little bit of movement, at least in Nate Silver's Civil Bulletin model. She's now favored to win the electoral college. Pennsylvania is so important. And so she's going to have to speak to specific counties there and other places to really take it away.

But if Donald Trump was willing to do that second debate, which he is wussing out of, it would really bode well for her. Because I think whenever she's confronted and she has to be sharp, that's when she shines. That's why I'm interested to see what Simone Sanders thinks

about maybe her doing some interviews with people who might challenge her even more than Stephanie Ruhl did, even though Stephanie Ruehl did a good job. All right, let's talk to Simone. Sanders-Talmers. Let's talk to her right now on the other side of his break. Big time guests joining us on Higher

learning right now, big time. Co-hoes of MSNBC's The Weekend served as National Press Secretary for Bernie Sanders, 2016 presidential campaign, which shook up the Democratic Party establishment. The 2020 presidential campaign of former Vice President Joe Biden as a senior advisor, after Biden won the election, she worked directly to chief spokesperson and senior advisor, Vice President Kamala Harris turned presidential candidate Kamala Harris turned future president

fingers crossed Kamala Harris. Her name is Simone Sanders Townsend. Thank you for joining us on Higher Learning Day. How are you doing, Simone? I'm good. It's so good to be here with you guys. Thank you for having me. I have an upcoming special Black Women in America, The Road to 2024. Yeah. Which is hosted by you and Melissa Murray. That's coming on

Sunday September 29th at 9 p.m. Eastern on MSNBC. Tell us a little bit about it. We are so excited to bring this to people. So Melissa Maria and I, Melissa, like to describe it as a summer girls trip that we took. And I said, okay, Melissa, we're going to take that one. So we really went around the country to talk to black women and to get their perspective on this election. I think a lot of times people talk about black women. They think they know black women's voting ideology, you know, what they're going to do, but black women are not a monolith, right? You know, there are black women in the cities, there are black women in the suburbs, okay?

I know sometimes when they talk about suburban women, people think it's cold for white women, but actually, over the last 20 years, the suburbs have become more diverse. So, Melissa and I went to a key suburb in Pennsylvania, Montgomery County, Pennsylvania, actually, to talk to an intergenerational group of black women. We went down to Essence Fest, and we met with women there, and we interviewed the CEO of essence, Caroline Wonga. We went to the Democratic National Convention and we had sat down and talked to black women

who had been at the forefront of just really Democratic Party politics, frankly, for a very, very long time and talked about the impact of black women in the political sphere across the spectrum. We talked to Carrie Washington. We talked to some real young black women voters from North Carolina, Georgia, and we come back.

convening them in Washington, D.C., in a nail shop, actually, to have a conversation about how they're feeling. So we ran the gamut, and on Sunday, September 29, folks are really going to see what we think is a thought-provoking, real, engaging and inspiring snapshot of black women and just what they're thinking about in advance of this very, very, very consequential election. Yeah, I'm excited about this. And I like that you said, you know, everyone, people think that we're a modelist. So what will, as this special comes out, what will people, or will they be surprised at some of the conversations that black women are having and that we all aren't thinking the same thing? I don't want to give away too much because obviously I want people to watch it, but if you can just give us a little tease. Well, you know, when we did this conversation in Montgomery County, Pennsylvania, we were literally in this fabulous kitchen. Okay, matter of fact, I'm getting my kitchen read down right now.

And the kitchen kind of looks like the kitchen we were in because I was like, well, this is a nice kitchen. We were in this woman's house. her name is Vanessa. And Vanessa invited us in her house with her friends, her daughter and one of her daughter's friends. And that conversation, it shocked me. One of the women in the group was a Republican,

and the other women in the group didn't know she was a Republican. And they've known this woman for years. And literally, when she, this part is, you're going to see it on television, but she says, you know, I didn't know I was going to say this, but I'm a registered,

I was a registered Republican for 20 years since I've lived in Maryland. And people were like, what? Audible gasps, okay? And I think in tuning into this, you would not think that, oh, there are black women that are Republicans, but there are black women that are independents. Yes, there are black women that are Democrats. And then there are black women that are black women that are Democrats. And then there are black women that are very enthusiastic about the switches they were calling it, Vice President Harris's candidacy. But then there were some folks who were like, I don't really know what I'm going to do. And Melissa and I were kind of. of like, does this mean you are voting for Trump? And two of the young black women who said they didn't know if they were going to vote said,

no, no, no. I just don't know if I'm voting for her, but it's not a question of her versus Trump. It's whether I check the box for her or not at all. So it was very, very, very interesting. When we get into the conversation that we had before the convention, specifically, one of the participants, Mignon Moore, who is the chair, who was the chair of the 2024 convention, She was in that conversation, these five just powerhouse black women leaders. She specifically brings up black men.

And she says, she talks about dispelling the myth that black men are not going to vote for a woman. So it is really, it's just really good. We were doing some tracking and editing the other day. And I was like, oh, this was good. Not that I didn't think it was good. We did it. But I'm like, even I'm like, oh, I can't wait to see it because we shot so much. We filmed so much content.

we're distilling it down to an hour with some commercial breaks. But really, people will be, I think, interested. But you know what? They might be a little frustrated because when young people, if there are people in this doctor are saying, I don't know if I'm going to vote. Some people online will say, oh, well, that's the problem. No, this is a real sentiment that black women,

younger black women across the country have. And I think people, instead of shaming the voters for how they feel they need to pay attention to what the voters are saying so that people who want their votes can be responsive to that and get them to vote for them. Those black women that were hesitant to vote for the vice president, do you remember what their hesitancy was based around? What was stopping them? Well, one young woman said she didn't think her vote mattered at all.

And I said, I literally, I think we left this part in the, you're going to see it's on TV. I said, oh, now, that's just that. And she said it's so many times she said she doesn't think her vote matters. She said she voted for Secretary Clinton in 2016. She said everyone told us that that was the most consequential election. I voted. Secretary Clinton, she said she won the popular vote. And this is a woman who lived in Georgia in 2016.

Actually, she's from Georgia her entire life and then moved to North Carolina since that time. And we'll be voting in North Carolina this year. And she said she doesn't think our vote matters. And Melissa, kudos to Melissa Murray. Melissa was like a dog with a bone. She was not letting it go. And by the end of the conversation, this particular woman, D, she says,

you know, if I see, if I hear what she has to say about abortion, criminal justice reform, and just her plan for the economy, and if I like what I hear, I'm going to vote. And Melissa was like, okay, then, well, we need to get, we need to get D to hear what she needs to hear so she can at least cast her ballot.

The other young woman who said she didn't know if she was voting, She was Muslim. She was a Muslim black woman, previously lived in North Carolina, currently now resides in Washington, D.C. And she said that the issue of what is happening in Gaza to the Palestinian people is of cheap importance to her. And she said, how do, she said, you know, how do I know that Vice President Harris isn't going to continue what is happening? And, you know, we get into the conversation. I say, well, you know, she and the president have called for a ceasefire. You know, they have called for bringing the hostages home. And then I'm like, so are you considering Trump?

And she's like, no, not considering Trump, but this is personal for me. So very interesting and real perspectives. I know, right? That was me, man. I was in the nail shop. I'm like, oh, Lord, I need a drink. We just saw Vice President Kamala Harris sit down for another interview. And it seems like people.

I mean, I know this is only the second one she's done, but people continue to say that she's not having a hard-hitting interview, that she's dodging direct questions. Are we asking too much of common, like, is this typical what we see when there's a presidential candidate who's, you know, in an upcoming election? Is she dodging direct questions? Like, what's your take on that? And do you think that she should have a more hard-hitting interview because maybe some of the ones that she's the two, she's done so far, I've been a little bit more friendly. I would say, so to the interview she did yesterday, right after

her economic speech, she sat down with Stephanie Rulves, a colleague of mine. Stephanie is amazing. She hosts the 11th hour on MSNBC 11 p.m. But why Stephanie made so much sense and why I thought it was so smart that first of all, Stephanie and her team

reached out for the interview, but that the vice president's team said yes, because Stephanie has a business background. She doesn't come from politics. She doesn't come from being a political reporter. She was a business reporter, business analyst. And so in an election where everyone is saying their top issue

is the economy and an election where you know you got the Wall Street folks and the donor people being like, well, you know, when J.B. Diamond sits down at Davos and goes on CNBC and says, well, you know, Trump is right about a lot. That has me saying, well, people who would like to beat Donald Trump need to talk about their economic plans in a way that people can hear them

with someone that uniquely understands the issue. There are a few. There are a few journalists out there who currently host shows, whether they are on cable or network, who could do what Stephanie Rule did yesterday. I don't think it was an easy interview. I think that, you know, it was a deep policy-laden interview where she could talk substantively about the economic policy. And I think there have been, you know, calls for her to do that. And she laid it out in a speech. And then she did it yesterday.

And so people can say they don't like the policy. You can say you, you can be critical of what the policy is and say that perhaps there's another way to go about it. But the criticism that she is not, you know, talking about it in depth with knowledgeable experts and people who know who could, you know, call BS and balls and strikes, that's just not true. Because I felt like Stephanie Ruhl did that. Now, do I think that they should be doing more, that she specifically should be doing more interviews? You know, I used to work with the vice president. And when I worked for her, we did interviews. when we traveled and when we were not traveling.

You know, there was a press board that traveled with us, not a protective pool, if you will. They don't have to be there. They're electing, you know, they're volunteering to be there, and the networks are paying their money for the, and the outlets are paying their money for them to go. But because they were spending their time on the plane,

you know, it was important to our strategy at the time to ensure that the vice president spoke to them on and off the record so that they had something for their stories outside of whatever it is that was going to just be on TV that we were going to put on Whitehouse.gov that everybody else slash live that everybody else don't have.

And I think that the vice president has been doing more of that. There was a lot of chit-chat earlier that she wasn't doing it at all, which was true. And that was frankly just a, you know, an un-forced campaign error

where they allowed the lack of communicating with the press board to become a bigger issue. So now she's talking to folks. She's doing the local interviews. I think that was her first solo cable hit, but she had done. and some local, I mean, I think our first interview post,

post that that interview with Governor Tim Walls was actually with a local Philadelphia outlet, which is critical and very important. So look, I think that she has to, because like a month and a half ago, she was not, two months ago, she wasn't the Democratic nominee, when voters say they don't know her.

What they are saying is, we don't know what she believes, we don't know about her, we don't know her values. They are literally saying, like, we don't know her because we either haven't been paying attention, okay or for whatever reason they don't know her. So given that there's, you know,

literally less than 40-something days counting less than election day, they have to do that work of people don't like when we say this, but like, this is, you know, campaign terminology introducing yourself to the American people. That being sad, honey. Down Trump also, you know, in the economy

where the election is important and the economy is the top issue, he should also be doing these things. And the reality is, I just, you know, everyone should sit down and then compare what you hear. And I just feel like childcare is one of the biggest issues that many families and people across this country have to deal with. And to see, for me, Donald Trump doesn't understand it. He don't know what a therapist is. Now, mind you, a couple people, a lot of people listening to this podcast and watching television also don't know what the therapist is.

But they're not running to be president. Right. Do you think she should play, do you think that she should play some away games, maybe go on a Fox News? Is there any value in her sitting down with either a network with a conservative slant or conservative-minded people at other networks so that she can sit into that fire a little bit? If you were still with her, would you do any of that type of stuff? You know, it depends, right? Like, I, what is that?

She did, apparently the vice president recorded an interview, did an interview with all the smoke, that podcast. Yeah, all the smoke. Madden stack. Yeah. Yes. And so it's like that is reaching a different audience right of people who might not see, you have seen the CNN interview or didn't watch the debate or so on and so forth. So that makes sense.

I think there has been lots of talk about people saying, oh, she should go on Joe Rogan or Governor Wall should go on Joe Rogan. And I don't think so. I think Joe Rogan is problematic. But I think she or Governor Wall should talk to Howard Stern. I think that there is value in engaging with what, I guess we recall right now conservative media, but on the issues. You know, I'll go back to the Stephanie Ruhl interview.

The reason Stephanie Ruled, I'm like not like any other, you know, pick your, pick your any other cable news journalists or network news journalists, they don't have the, just frankly, like we don't, I don't got a background like Stephanie Ruled. She's going to ask you some questions that the rest of us aren't going to ask because she is an expert in the area. And if people are saying they want more economic policy, I mean, Sam's going on CNBC with Andrew Walsh Sorkin, this was the place for her to be to talk about it. I do not think as a, you know, as a former strategist, you know, time is the most valuable asset that you have for your candidate. And you don't want, especially in a time like this, you don't want any unforce errors, right? As I talked about, like not doing the, allowing the lack of, you know, speaker with the press is traveling with you to become a thing. is an unforced error. So, but you also don't want to give off the ears that you're hiding.

So there are some, you know, who's to say she shouldn't do is sit down with a Wall Street Journal, a reporter from the Wall Street Journal, again, a serious outlet, a more concerned. I mean, truly, like, you know, all our public are friends. They read the Wall Street Journal before they read the Times. Sorry, New York Times. So I do think of value in that for sure, because as if you're going to be the commander and chief, the leader of the free world, the president of the United States, you're the president of everybody.

not just those who voted for you in the last election. Do you think that they would go on Joe Rogan if they were invited? Perhaps I think they were. I mean, well, actually, Joe Rogan, I hope they wouldn't go, but maybe somewhere somebody did this is a good idea. I just think he's supermassive. Why are we going to talk to people that like align with white supremacist's ideology? I'm not saying white supremacist, but I'm just saying some of the things are problematic.

But like a Brett bear, maybe Brett. Bread is a, is a journalist at Fox. He's not some of the other personalities. Brett is a journalist. A Chris Wallace, frankly, who's formerly a Fox Anger. Right, yeah. Who has a different kind of show now, right? So I just, I do think that there is value in talking to people that folks may deem, quote, unquote, more conservative because you want to reach different audiences.

But I don't think that there's value in doing it just to say you did it, right? Like she, she shouldn't sit down with Joe Rogan just to say, see, I can go toe to toe to Joe Rogan because. Because when you're president of the United States of America, you're not going to total to toe with Joe Brogan, you're going to total to tell with Putin. And so a better, like, a better, frankly, representation of, like, how you could stand up to, you know, people that don't agree with you or tough folks

or other leaders as president is to talk about some of the work, frankly, that she has been doing as vice president. That's what I was saying. When you look at the polls, it still shows that, like, Trump and Harris are neck in neck. And even if, when it talks about, issues with the economy, majority of people still, the poll show that they believe in a Trump economy over a Harris economy despite the speech. And maybe it'll change after the speech and despite

this interview. And it also shows that she's losing in like battleground state, Georgia, North Carolina, and Arizona. What do you think is the biggest concern for the Harris Walls campaign to overcome these numbers in this polling? You know, I think that, well, first of all, say the polling is indicative, is not predictive. So campaigns and strategies should use polling to inform kind of what it is they're going to do. But I do think that the polling to me says, well, the public polling and then what I know about all these various campaigns, private polling, because, you know, you got a lot of House members and Senate races as well, is that this is going to be close.

And that now that Vice President Harris is at the top of the ticket, it is closer than what it was before, right? that they're, you know, Democrats specifically, they feel better about their chances. And Republicans, they're feeling a little more antsy. But this was always going to be a close election. We haven't had a landslide election in this country. And like, since I've been working presidential politics and before, like, we, we haven't had a landslide election where it's like, clear winner for a very long time. And I think for the future it's going to be close.

So what they have to, I think for the Harris campaign specifically, looking, I have heard in the streets and seen on the, on the sheets that, you know, there's like a 1% spend currently happening for like some constituency media, black media specifically, spending on advertising to black people to turn out black voters. That's a problem. Earlier this year, the Biden campaign was the largest, I mean, they had they had done a record investment in African American and Latino ad spending specific. they put a lot of money into it, not just radio ads, but television, digital, like, targeting newspapers. Like, they were aggressively going out to proactively communicate the message in the spaces that

people read, watch and listen to, in addition to the other stuff that then Biden campaign, Biden Harris campaign was doing. Now, I kind of, it seems to me that there is this thought that they don't have to do so much on paid media. That's what we call when it ads are paid media. We literally pay for it, and it's expensive. They don't have to do so much on paid media because they're getting so much and they can do more and earned media. And I think that that's a mistake because this is an election where if Vice President Harris and Tim Walls are going to be successful, they're going to need what we call based Democratic voters, i.e., like people who have traditionally come out and support of the Democratic Party, and they're going to need moderate Republican voters and then just some truly independent voters.

They're going to need to close the gaps in some of the rural areas. That's why you've seen them doing these tours, both she and with Tim Walts together. but also both of them separately. But to be very clear, which is why the special that Melissa and I did is, I think, critical. Somebody asked me the other day, they were like, well, do you think black women are going to be an issue for Kamala Harris? Maybe black men, but do you think black women? And I was just like, it would be a mistake for any Democratic candidate or entity to believe that based Democratic voters that black people, Latino folks, Hispanic voters, Asian-American Pacific Islander are going to show up for the Democratic candidate just because. You will have to earn their vote like everyone else.

And I know, I know, I know. It's an existential election. I know Donald Trump is talking about being a dictator on day one. I understand that. But that does not mean that you should not go out and court the votes of black people just like you do these imaginary voters in the middle because the middle actually don't exist. Okay. What about low-income voters? I hear about middle-class voters.

I hear about, you know, voters in the suburbs, rural voters. And when I think about black people who need the support of the party and who need the policies of the party to lift them up, I don't think about the quote-unquote middle-class voter. You think about the working poor voter, the low-income voter. And you guys are special and in the Democratic Party or in the Republican Party in the American political infrastructure. writ large, is there enough outreach that goes to the working poor voter, the person that's

working at McDonald's now, not when they were in school? I think, so when it comes to our special, that's why it was important for us to have this specific conversation with millennial black women. I think we get millennial and Gen Z confused. Like, I'm a millennial. I'm 34 years old. The oldest millennials in this year are turning 43. The youngest millennials are 27. Okay, millennials are the suburban moms. Okay? They got, you know, the millennials are the people, many of them working two, three jobs and still can't put enough, you know, food on the table to feed their families. Gen Z voters are these college students and the people freshly out of college and folks coming, you know, who just turned 18 this year. So we spent, the nail shop conversation is made up of

specifically millennial black women who I was, as we were putting it together, Melissa and I were telling the team, we were like, we want, we want black women that work. good that work a regular job. Okay. In my example, when I say a regular job, I want the black women to work in the bank, not corporate. Okay, I want the black woman that's a teller, but goes the essence best, honey, because the group chat is popping.

Because that is representative of, I think, of a swath of people that is often missing from the conversation. And it's that focus on the millennial black women conversation where we get that sentiment of the people that don't think their vote matters, the folks that are concerned about the economy. We have a conversation about the women bring up some,

Macy and criminal justice reform and what Democrats are going to do about, Democrats and Republicans are going to do about criminal justice reform. They talk about abortion. One of the, Dee talks about a friend of hers who lives in Georgia who literally can't get an abortion right now and because the rules in Georgia. And that is just a, that is just a real perspective that, frankly, that is different from the women who, from our suburban conversation because they are just, I mean, these are women who have, who are a little more well to do. And I think oftentimes when we talk about black women,

people only want to go to, you know, the grit of black women and the black women that's, you know, out there in the trenches. But there is a range. And so we tried to put the range of black women on display in our special. But your point about the low-income working for folks, you know, nowadays it's popular.

And by nowadays, I mean, in the last, you know, 10 years, talking about the middle class is popular because people want to aspire. You know, everybody want to be, you want to be middle class. Even if you're low income, you won't be called low income. You're just working.

But the reality is, is, you know, Reverend Barbara has been out here saying this. I sat down with him for a conversation on his most recent book about two months ago. And he says, you know,

I don't hear anybody in politics talking enough about poor people. And poor people are the swing voters in this election. And when he said that, I was like, you know what? Yes. Yes, yes, that's absolutely true.

And so I think people should he's Revin Barber's comments there and really take it to heart because there are people that do not see themselves in the middle class conversation. They can't think about starting a business because they are still trying to pull it together to get to work. And that's to say that some of the policies that frankly are being put on the table don't speak to that working class folks, because I think they do, but how we talk about things matters for sure. The special is called Black Women in America The Road to 2024.

It is airing September 29th on MSNBC. Simone Sanders, Townsend. Thank you so much for joining us. We always appreciate you stopping by the show. And tell everybody where they can watch you, follow you all the stuff. It's always good to see you guys. I love it.

A longtime listener, okay, not a first time caller, but I'll be back. You can follow me on all platforms at Simone D. Sanders, Simone with the Y, on all platforms. And you can watch the show that we're putting together this special Sunday at 9 p.m. Eastern on MSNBC. You can catch me Saturdays and Sundays 8 a.m. to 10 a.m. Eastern as I co-host the weekend with my friends Michael Steele and Alicia Menendez. So we got a power pack show this weekend as well. So I'm doing early duty on the weekend. and then we're going to be tuning in and watching the special together at 9 p.m. Easter. Thank you, Simone.

We appreciate you. We'll be on the lookout for that. We'll check it out. Thank you so much. Thanks, guys. See you soon. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable Internet means everything for your business.

And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. It keep companies of all sizes connected with Internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support, millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start.

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flu-like symptoms or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. Raj, I have a question for you. Simone was great, by the way. I appreciate her time. I have a question for you.

Yes. Rep. Favreve. Red Fav has fucked in his legacy in almost every way that one can. I'm going to go through all of the different ways that Brett Far has fucked his career in his legacy. He was a goaded. Packers great. Beloved by all.

Maybe he still is. But then he went to play for the Vikings. Division rhyme. So there was some football stuff. He sent his penis to Jennifer Sturger, family man type of I'm a good guy stuff. The only thing that was left was that Brett Far was in a complete fucking asshole to people in general. And he fucked that up by stealing from some of the poorest people in Mississippi defrauded and their welfare. He was on Congress on Capitol Hill talking about this stuff and basically said during his discussion of all of this,

the means, the way his means committee on welfare reform, he was talking about some of the stuff that went on there. Talk about the fact that he now is diagnosed with Parkinson's. Donnie, run the audio. Sadly, I also lost an investment in a company that I believed was developing a breakthrough concussion drug. I thought would help others. And I'm sure you'll understand why it's too late for me because I've recently been diagnosed with Parkinson's.

This is also a cause dear to my heart. Recently, the doctor running the company pleaded guilty to taking TANF money for his own use. Brett Farm has Parkinson's. Do you care? That's... This is the thing. I'm asking. He announces that he has Parkinson's...

Okay, just to be clear, he announces that he has Parkinson's as he's talking about a drug that he was... I just want to make sure I'm getting this right. The drug that he was used... using this provocative drug, this concussion drug, was that to help with the Parkinson's? He was behind the drug.

Right. Is that drug supposed to help Parkinson's? The drug, he intimates that this drug in some way would have helped people that were victims of Parkinson's. and the money that was used to help the company make this drug was stolen from the temporary assistance for needy family's funds, correct? Correct. I don't care. I just want to make that link to then say, I don't care. Because it almost feels like, and, you know, like, that sounds super cold.

And obviously I care about people that are struggling with disease. And, you know, when you talk about someone who's suffering from a debilitating disease like that, you always have to talk about the caretakers too because their life is deeply impacted as well. But it's hard to find sympathy particularly for him when not only was he stealing money from needy families for the money was supposed to go to, but now you're almost trying to gain more sympathy with Congress to justify why you're, we were stealing the money to help. Like, it feels very dirty to me, even more so than it already was.

So particular to him, no, I don't. So he had the money to figure, to fund it in other ways. Made a lot of money over his career. Instead, he decided to steal from people he does not care about. So this is by far the worst thing that Brett Farve is done. Brett Farb is, okay, so. To your point, the $2 million, he's developing a drug. And if he develops the drug and the drug is successful,

he's going to make millions and millions and millions, maybe billions of dollars when you have a successful drug out there on the market. It is, the windfall is untold. Like, it's ridiculous how much money there is and like, you know, biotech and pharmaceuticals and all that type. stuff right there, right? To your point, Brett F.R.V.

is flush with cash. He has a lot of money. He made a lot of money. He could take Wrangler jeans money $2 million and put it as a drug. He was trying to get rich on the dime of the poor people of the state of Mississippi. That's what he was trying to do. He was trying to get rich

based upon them. He was taking money from that, putting it into the drug, and then hopefully the money comes back. It wasn't just that people are forgetting this it was the volleyball court at Southern Miss and all of this stuff where his kid was going to school and all of this different type of stuff.

Brett Farr was using that money as a slush fund. That is a fact. It's facts. He now tries to hide behind this terrible and really sad diagnosis and shield himself from any type of criticism because of it. This is the type of fucking shit that we're talking about.

Everybody out there right now that's saying, hey, you're a bad person if you're saying Brett Parv, go fuck yourself. You're not. You're not at all. I'm not as, it's not high horseing it here. This is somebody who's trying to

skate by based upon a really sad and unfortunate situation. Anybody out there that's dealing with Parkinson's disease or knows somebody that is, you know how debilitated it is and how terrible it is and how sad it is. And we, hope that they're therapeutics and different things like that are made so people don't have to

go through that. But as far as this guy using that to try to drum up sympathy from people when he's a fucking dickhead thief, my God, man. What the fuck is going on? Brett Farb and Lance Armstrong competing for biggest fucking fumble. There was a time when those two guys, Brett Farf and Lance Armstrong, Armstrong were widely beloved in the grandest of ways and the work that both of those men have done to destroy their legacies. Sometimes they're competitive legacies, but definitely their personal legacies.

That got to be studied, man. Those are two fumblers right there. Jesus. What the fuck? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not going to pat right far from the back for trying to.

create a drug to help people with this disease that affects so many people. You're doing it because it's self-serving to you. It's particular to you, which seems to be a theme in how Brett Farr has lived his life. And just you naming some of the controversy surrounding him outside of this. It's all self-motivated. So, no, I repeat, I don't care when it comes to him. You know, we have offset and Cardi being a rundown, but did we make ourselves a promise that we would never get involved

in celebrities' business ever again after? No, I'm about to read a tweet that was deleted. No. Go for it. No. I'm sorry. I apologize. I don't want to either.

Oh, wait, they said this was fake. Never mind. What was the tweet? Just even though, nah, if it was fake, we don't want to read it, but it was a fake tweet. I mean, this is the takeoff tweet? Yeah. Yeah. Did you see that?

I did. It's not real. So it's not real. If it's not real, we don't need to read it, you know. What's Cardi B's handle? I am Cardi B. Yeah, I think so. But. Then how is this fake?

It could be like Photoshop or something. Yeah. You never, you've never seen a Photoshop tweet before. Okay, well, then I'm not going to read it if it's not, if it's not. Hey, if it's fake. Or there's a question over it. Yeah, it could be full-shund. Here's the thing.

I'm not, I'm not so, I'm not certain that Cardi B. an offset end up in divorce. Did you not upset? No, I'm not certain that they'll end up in divorce. That's, so your original thing was, didn't we say we wouldn't get involved in other people's business? And the answer is yes. But it's really hard when you have people like Cardi B.

Offset, who continue to put us in their business. We're not asking for it. They're doing lives. They're messaging each other during the live. They're tweeting. You can't escape it. So you're almost inviting us. You want us to sit and watch it all unfold.

You want us to comment. You want us to talk about it. How many times have we seen Offset and Cardi B go back and forth, back and forth. accusations of cheating. And then not only you go back and forth, they keep making, they keep procreating and all of this as well. I mean, she just had his baby.

Now they're fighting again. So, I mean, I don't really care. You know how I want to ask you something. So Offset commented on Cardi B's Live and he says, you fucked with a baby inside you. Tell the truth. Is it diabolical? Is it a broken rule?

Let's say that you're with somebody and they and then you're pregnant and then you, you break up with them or something like that. Is it diabolical to have sex with somebody else while you're pregnant with somebody else's baby? Donnie, jump in for this too. You just had a kid. You broke up? Let's say that you're estranged. Is he having sex with other people?

I'm not asking about that. There's nothing to do with what we're talking about. It has no bearing on. No. So it's not diabolical. Donnie, do you think that it's diabolical? Pregnant woman having sex with another man while the next man's baby is inside of her?

Is that diabolical yes or no? I don't think so. I think it is a case-by-case basis. And in a case that you are being cheated on as a woman, I do think that all bets are off. Okay. They're not together. They're not together.

That's true. If you're not together, if you're not together, then it doesn't matter. So the baby, the baby being in the stomach of the next man has no bearing on the fact. That wasn't your question. Your question was, is it diabolical? Wait, the question, wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay. So the question, but the question has to do with whether or not having sex with somebody else while you're pregnant with the next.

with the next man's baby whether or not that should have any bearing on your decision. Like when he says you fucked with a baby inside of you, he's basically saying you were pregnant for me

and then you had sex with somebody else while you were pregnant. The question is, is that diabolical or not? No. Okay? You don't have ownership

over her body in that way. Like you might not like it. Would I do it? No. But isn't diabolical? Do I think, no. You don't get ownership over her body just because.

But why wouldn't you do it? Because that, I mean, honestly, I would be more focused probably on having the baby. And like, that would be my thing. I'd probably be devastated over the fact that, and I'm not in this situation, be devastated over the fact that my relationship, just as I'm bringing life into this world with this person is ending, like my partner, that would be more upset over that. And all my attention would be focused on.

on having the baby probably. So I don't, so I want to be honest with you. Unless I have a new, unless I have a new man who's about to step in a stepdaddy. I'm so different. If I'm in a whole new relationship,

then maybe. So, but just like, just for fun, no. So my thing is this. I don't really have that much of an opinion on it

because it probably happens inadvertently all the time. You don't know that you're pregnant. Like you're having sex with the baby in you, you know what I'm saying, whatever, whatever. I think that what men think about is,

you know, you having sex to, babies inside of it, you know, the penis tapping the baby on the top of the head and all that type of shit like that. You know what I'm saying? See, Donnie knows. Like, that's what, that's what men

probably think. And that's probably like an overestimation of most guys and what even what they are. But I think that's probably what men think. But it's interesting that there's nothing wrong with it, but you wouldn't do it. that's interesting.

You don't think that's interesting, Donnie? That's what I said by being a case-by-case basis. Everybody treats relationships and their bodies in different ways, however they want to. So I'm not going to say that it's diabolical and make a blatant statement to do that in this situation. Because, I mean, honestly, back to it, not being our business,

it's weird that this is even a topic of the conversation that is being had, but, like, they are making it so that we have to have this conversation because it's all over the internet because of them. So, like, this is some private stuff that they're just opening it up for the world, which ultimately, I feel like it's weird. It's so funny.

It's just, it's, it's, it's an interesting thing. They're posting messages. They're doing all of this stuff. Thank you, Donnie. It's crazy. This episode is brought to by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping.

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Somebody just asked us if we're going to be talking about Shannon Sharp on the podcast today. No, they did it. On Twitter, I swear to God. I swear to God. They just asked me if they were talking about Shannon Sharp. It says,

Tunisia says, I hope y'all are talking about Shannon Sharp for tomorrow's F. I'm curious to hear your thoughts. What, what, okay, Tunisia? What do you want us to say? So for those of you don't know, Shannon Sharp, basically he made a controversial statement

once again in regards to black women where a black woman said something that he didn't like, questioned something that he said or did. And his response was to criticize her appearance and talk about her not wearing her actual hair. And of course, people jump all over him and say, this isn't great, this plays into the narrative out there, the

Shannon Sharp continues to disrespect black women. And he does. I mean, he seems to have a disregard for black women. The fact that you thought it was okay to and I don't even want to talk about this. I don't even want to talk about it.

There's really not going to talk about. Shannon Sharp totally talks in a very disrespect way, not all black women, but from time to time will say things that are disrespectful to black women. And just because somebody's disagreeing with you and your first thing to do is to criticize her as if only black women wear fake hair and not other races as well just shows like his

discontent with black women and how quick he is to talk about them in a disparaging way more than he is for other races. So let me ask you this. I'm trying to look at the sequence of these tweets.

I'm trying to look at the sequence of these tweets. And they're going back and forth because I guess Shan Sharp has talked about Caitlin Clark. He defends Caitlin Clark, which I think most defenses of Caitlin Clark right now are pretty well-sourced. They're like,

Caitlin Clark had a fantastic season. She had fantastic season. People were, a lot of the hate that was being poured upon Caitlin Clark, even for me. It's just because I'm like, Angel to beat Caitlin Clark. It's so funny,

I'll be honest with you. As soon as Angel's season was over, like I care less about Caitlin Clark and more just about the basketball and the WNBA. Like I love Angel and want to see Angel do well and that was her nemesis.

So a lot of my animus for Caitlin Clark was just because everything that Angel was doing was being compared up against Caitlin Clark. And all that. Caitlin Clark had a fantastic season. Angel had a fantastic season. So, you know, a lot of people,

I don't know why certain people jump to the defense of her. I don't know where that comes from. But defending her at this particular point is just basically stating facts. She was box office for the fucking league. Everybody was watching the fucking league when she was playing. She ended up having a fantastic season. Even though the season is over,

you can't really besmirge her name in too many different ways. It's just the fact. It's just the fact. I'm just very tired of this narrative. He was on first tape, it looks like, and he was talking again about Caitlin Clark. And a man says, this is why I said the WNBA has a, quote, What About Me issue?

Happy Shannon calling it out right in front of one who started it. And a man then responds to Shannon Sharp, black man, and talks about how he never speaks on the disrespect that the rest of the women in the WNBA have experience and he goes on to talk about how he's always defending Caitlin Clark. In response to that black man, Shannon Sharp says, that's your issue, not mine. I have no issue with anything I've said in regards to the WNBA

and its players past or present. All right. That's his clap back to that black man. Then a black woman says, oh, I'm sure you don't. And to her, Shannon Sharp says, why are you on my page? don't you have another horse to rob of his hair?

Stop trying to kill my vibe. Then after the backlash that he receives, he says that I will no longer respond to any negativity. It's not that serious for me. I've got kids, and I would be upset if they respond in that manner. It's beneath me. So, first off, we have to comment on the fact

that he's making a horse hair joke in 2024, which goes towards his being an uncle. That's just like so old in such a whack joke. But it speaks to, he spoke to a black man one way, to a black woman. This is how he decided to speak to her. She didn't talk about your appearance. She talked about an opinion that you stated on television. She disagreed with you, similar to how that black man did.

But your response to her was to degrade her. And this isn't the first time that he's done something like this. So the reason I said, I don't want to talk about it. The reason I said, like, what's the point? It's because time and time again, Shannon Sharp has shown us who he is and how he feels, whether it's deeply rooted, whether it's some kind of whatever this unconscious bias is he has.

He feels some type of way towards black women where he's loose at the mouth and how he wants to speak to them. So it is what it is. This is going to sound like an odd question. Is there a way to insult a black woman that has insulted you that is not anti-black or anti-black woman? Like I'm looking at his tweet, at his tweets right now. I'm just looking through him. And there is one of them where a guy where Shannon Sharp asked a question and he's like,

Club Shay-Shay, the Twitter asked a question. and then saying Shannon Sharpe in these flex. And it's like, should he enter a bodybuilding contest? And then a guy comes back to Shannon Sharp and he says, anybody can look like that with time and resources or with the resources that Shannon has, right? With the time and resources that Shannon has.

And this guy has a Minnesota Vikings AVI. Right? So you can't even see what he looks like. And then Shannon replies to that guy and he said, it doesn't matter what resources you have at your disposal. you're still going to look like stir-fired shit, which is what you look like right now.

Another old-unk type of situation, right? So what I'm saying is he's clapping back at people in his tweets on different things. This is not me arguing with anything that you said. I'm just saying, is there anything if you get dissed by a black lady on Twitter? She calls you fat, she calls you whatever.

she calls you, whatever, right? Is there any this you can come back to her? Can you make front of her forehead? Can you make front of her shoes? Can you make fun of her shoes? Can you make fun of her? Is there any way to do it that's not anti-black? Okay, what would it be? Well, one, she did not make fun of his appearance.

Okay. So it's not a back and forth. So that's a different case than the case that, and by the way, the pick that the guy that Shannon was talking about was of McIntyrester. It wasn't even of that one. So that's a different case because that guy talked about Shannon's appearance Kind of actually didn't just made an observation and Shannon came back on him and this one you're saying he jumped right to that And that's devaluing of her based on her profile pick which based on her profile

Interestingly enough is Megan the stallion which he also has a history with Yeah, so to your point she didn't talk about his appearance. That's one thing but Let's say she did. Is there something? Yeah, you just said it. Big forehead. That is not particular to race. You know?

It could have said big forehead. Could have said, I don't know. It could be something general, like the color shirt you're wearing. It could have been about nails. Everybody wears nails. It could be about yours. Yes, there are absolutely. But that particular one that he made with this with regards to the hair,

it's an old stereotype. Yeah. It's like not the reality because so many women of all different races wear fake hair, but it is an old stereotype that is particular to black women. That is stuck to black women. That fits his generation. And are you thinking there's a blind spot there or do you feel like there's an animus there that he hasn't really dealt with? I think there's an animus there.

And it goes to who he dates. And I know he's like, I date everybody, but like I don't see a Shana Sharp multiple times in public. For my observation, he doesn't date everybody. I'm just going to say that. So there seems to be an animus there. And I don't think I'm saying anything that hasn't already been said before. But you add that to this comment and previous comments.

There just seems to be this particular way he feels. to black women where he feels like he can talk to them any kind of way that you don't see mirrored it with other races. When you have that perception from people, and clearly it's a perception that people have of it. When you have that perception,

what, if anything, do you do to undo that? Like, when you have that perception... Well, he's never really addressed it. Other than saying people think I don't date black women and I date everybody. He's like, I have children by a black woman. Like, that sounds defensive more than it is like, to me, if you want to be real about it, if you want to be serious, if you want to like, if you're really bothered by this narrative that's out there about you and it's so untrue, then deal with it head on, particularly address why

you said that. Don't say, hey, I'm logging off because you guys are beneath me and I'm not dealing with negativity, I wouldn't want my kids to. No, you just made like imagine if a white man had said that. Well, you would probably deem it as racist. I would feel racist. It would feel racist.

You would deem it as racist. So when a black man says it, what do you say? Do you say it's racist? Do you say there's some type of self-hatred? Do you say it's some type of animosity? Like, what do you say to that? So to me, if he's,

if it's so untrue, then let's go through some of these tweets or comments that you've said before and talk about why you said them. See, and the thing is, that's an interesting point because it depends on the black man, right? If Marlon Wayans would have said something like that. If I wouldn't have felt that way or if, um... Yeah, we would have said it was just a whack joke. Or whack joke or whatever. It literally totally depends on the black man, right? like for for myself um

I think that people wouldn't expect and I've consulted people all different types of people on the internet before I don't think people would expect it for me so because people wouldn't expect it for me it probably would be looked at in a different way but it literally depends on a black man about whether or not I would look at it as if it was a white man I would definitely think it was anti-black if it was a black man it would depend on the sort of cultural tether

that I feel to that particular person about whether or not I look at it that way. Probably not, though. But there are certain black men that if they said it, I right away would be like, if Jason Whitlock say that, I'd be like, I feel like he means that.

If somebody, I feel like he means that. And it's interesting that people have Shannon in that category, and I wonder if he cares at all about it. Probably not. I don't think he's, I don't think he sees himself in that way. Like he said, what do you mean?

I have a child who has a black mother. You know, I don't think that he sees himself in that way. I don't even think he recognizes the implications, but just like the stereotypes that he's playing into. Probably needs to be a deeper conversation if it's a conversation that is cared about. Maybe you should talk to them about. Talk to a about it.

I'd be more than happy to sit on the brown couches and have a conversation with him. Talk to him. Why don't have a conversation? Go on there. You don't have a conversation. Talk to them about it, man. Rachel, how many conversations am I going to volunteer you for?

I don't know, but I'm willing to have them all. The only one I've ever said no to is like a kid of zones. Before we get out of here, I got to ask you one more thing it has to do with, you know, different situations that I find on Twitter. Okay. I hate when a woman sleeps over and I told her I have to work in the AM. and they don't move with any sense of urgency. I'm allowed to start work,

and you're sitting on my couch. Go ahead, Roger. Go home, Roger. That's what he says. And then ad hot chip came back. She goes, this is why spending a night with a man who isn't your boyfriend is a no-no because what the fuck is this?

She can stay there as long as she likes. I'm pretty sure you got whatever you wanted out of the situation. So let her get her. So there are two different schools of thought here. One is that, hey, you're over to my house. I'm getting ready to go. Like, let's go ahead and leave so that I can go to work. Or wherever I'm going to go.

Even if it's not to work, if it's in the gym, it's play video games. If I want to go to a walk, I want to leave you in the house by myself. Let's go. Let's go to work. And then the other woman says that if you spend the night in a man's house and you have sex in this house, and you should be able to stay at his crib as long as you want.

That's wild. That's wild that you feel like just because y'all were intimate that you get free reign and to stay there as long as you want. Like, if you came into my house and we were intimate, I'm not going to expect because we were intimate that you get to stay in my house all day unless I really want you to. That's just a wild school of thought. Like, yes, you both got something out of it. But like, if you got to, if it's time for somebody to go to work or somebody has an appointment or somebody's got to go, it's time for you to go. You don't get. It's not to your house now just because you both had sex.

Like, that's just kind of a wild thought. Like, I, if this would have been different to me if it says, I hate when a woman sleeps over after we have sex. Right. Like, if you're, if the sentiment is you want to kick them out, you get sex, you want to kick them out immediately. Like, you don't even let them spend the night. but the woman spends the night she stays over people have things to do the next day

I just I people are probably going to say I'm like a picmy or something for saying this why would you be a picme you don't think that that's crazy entitled I just said it's wild if it's reversed and you're at my house and I'm and I am intimate with a man

you don't get to stay here all day unless I want you to stay here all day you don't get free rein over the house You got to go when I leave. That's, it's a wild thought to me. But somebody will probably have an issue with me saying it like that. I don't think so. To me, I look at this and it's like, it's, I look at this as like, to me,

I am starting to wonder whether or not we're going too far and just, because even this whole situation is like, I'm sure he got what he wanted. out of the situation. Didn't two people, so are we looking at this from the standpoint of he wants sex and she wants to nest?

She doesn't want the sex. She wants the apartment? She was both. She wants the sex and she wants to nest. Yeah. Yeah. She's saying if I give you me

then you can't, you shouldn't be able to kick me out of the house. But he gave her, he gave her him as well. It was a mutual. There's a mutual exchange there. Yeah. And that's what I would ask her.

If this was your house, would he be able to stay there all day? Play video games. Order postmates. Chill. She'd be on the phone with her friends upset about it. This nigger won't leave. I've heard about this. I've heard about this before.

Like, there was this whole situation where women in Atlanta were saying they were dating guys that were actually, they didn't have a place to live and they would stay at their houses for the whole time. And they couldn't give him to leave and the whole nine heard about that type of, stuff before. It's just interesting to me. I do feel like sometimes like there's some entitlement in this situation that it and there's no accountability.

Rachel, we're going to start using you to hold women accountable. We're going to do, oh, I'm just joking. This is funny. If this was me, I'd want to go, I would even feel comfortable staying in a man's house when he had to go to work like that. I'd be like, okay, I'm going to go home to my house.

Right. Unless he was going to stay, we're going to kick it all day together and stay together, that's different, but you gotta go to work. Big with Showtay, you're off the hook according to Rachel. We got to go. Thank you to Simone Sanders, Townsend for coming on the podcast

today. Everybody keep your eyes on the news. So much stuff going on. We can't even keep track of it all. We'll be back Monday. Monday with an interview with a bright young Sigma from Florida,

Maxwell Frost. Yeah. Gen Z, Congressman from Florida is going to join us on Monday. But that'll be Monday. The weekend is coming in time for college football. I'm very excited. Alabama, Georgia coming up. We also got to talk about NIL and college football on Monday, too.

And what's happening at Nevada and other places where these players are taking their red shirt years because they're not getting paid from their NIL bills. Let's get into it. We have to get into the whole thing. That'll be on the next podcast. Take a thing caps off. Do not stop playing around Van Lee to Drink. I'm Rachel and Lindsay.

Bye, guys.