Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Even More Chris Harrison News. Plus, Lil' Mo on Her 20 Years in the Music Industry.

Episode Date: March 16, 2021

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay discuss the latest news that Chris Harrison will not be joining the next season of 'The Bachelorette' (3:30) and that Van’s short film was nominated for an Oscar (12:00). Then they welcome Lil' Mo to talk about her ups and downs in the music industry and her 2019 interview with 'The Breakfast Club' (24:00). Then Van and Rachel discuss an Oklahoma high school basketball announcer’s racist remarks (1:00:00), Kirk Franklin cursing out his son (1:08:00), and Van’s Very Serious Question for this week (1:18:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Higher Learning is on. It is I, Van Lathan. And it's me, Rachel Lindsay. A little bit of news for you guys, just so you know Higher Learning now has, or not now, but coming up this Thursday,

we'll be launching Higher Learning social media handles on both the old Twitter sphere and Instagram. They're live now. Oh, excuse me. Well, get it together. Jackson. I don't want people to feel like they're not live yet. Exactly.

Thank you, Jackson. Oh, now. Thank you, Jackson. Okay. You can do it again if you want. Jackson, do you want? I mean, what do you want? What else?

Is there anything else you need to do when I'm trying to do the podcast? Thank you, Jacksonian. Yes, well, they're live now on Twitter at Higher underscore Learning on Instagram. At Higher Learning, all one word. If you want to be an active part of the thought worried community. What we're going to start doing is the mailbag, stop DMing them to us now. DM them to or ask them via hashtag mailbag on Twitter or or DMing them to the social at Higher Learning on Instagram. So we want to grow those socials up there right now. Both of those are great.

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Rach! Man, man, you're wearing a red hat with white letter writing on it. Can I see the front of it? It says Los Angeles. The front. The front of the hat? Why? Oh!

If you were walking around with that in public? No, it's Vario since. He lost you for a second. Oh, my God. No, but honestly, if you were walking around like that from a distance, people would be alarmed. They'd be alarmed. From a distance.

You look like a Trump supporter, and we want nothing to do with you. From a distance. I love that song. How was your weekend? My weekend was short. because I had to work the Grammys on Sunday. But other than that was good, Friday,

took a day to myself. Saturday, my girl was in town from Texas. She's got a new show. Y'all got to check it out. America's Most Wanted. It's got a reboot. It starts actually tonight. Premiers.

Come here to the Bachelor. Okay. America's Most Wanted. Two of America's Most Wanted. Hey. Just real quick, who are the rappers that were on? Two of America's Most Wanted? Quick.

Pock. Okay. Yeah. Who else? Snoop. All right. Just making sure. Y'all see how he does me?

Picture perfect. I find a perfect picture. Who's your position? I'll just with you with best double Opie. Go all my, he's in the bomb, man. Nicky. What would you have done if I had been like

Snoop and Biggie? Trudy? Put Trudy in. Or actually, I can't put Trudy in. I can't, you know what? I can't put Trudy in. I can't do that. I would have left.

Because this is our podcast. I can't give somebody, but I would have left. I'd have been like Jackson, who he obviously wants to take the podcast over. So Jackson just take the podcast over and continue to do the podcast. So there was a little bit of actular news that we have to hit on. Just a little bit of actular. A little bit of actualer news.

We're almost done. We're almost done with the actular. Chris Harrison, not on the actuarrette. Going to be replaced. Why are we? Why are we referring to it this way? Because I got a red hat on. So, you know.

Okay. Actually, wait, but that would make, if I got the red hat on, that would double down on the bees. Yeah, come on now. Come on. Get it right. Hey, hey, man.

Shout out to all my homies around L.A. putting in work doing their thing. You know what I'm saying? I'm sorry. I messed up with the politics and the what, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah. So, yes, he, so,

whack because you just did that. I was like, what? Chris Harrison off the Bachelorette and now they replace it with Tasia. And who else? Caitlin. Caitlin.

Casha and Caitlin. Boy, does Tasia photograph well. Tasia and Caitlin. We're not going to spend too much time on it. We've already spent oodles of time on it. What are you doing? Yes. Listen, you want my opinion on it?

I don't really have anything to say. I'm opinioned out when it comes to this, except for my opinions on after the final rows, which we will reserve till the next podcast this week. Listen, everybody keeps saying, oh my gosh, Chris Harrison, and you know I know this because they're attacking me on social. You got Chris Harrison fired.

He's canceled, cancel culture. I need people to read the statement. I need people to understand what's happening. He has not been fired. He said he was going to step aside. It's a new season that has already started filming. Okay? Chris Harrison has stepped aside to educate himself.

The show supports him on that. So he is not on this current season. He can't get educated in the way that he needs to in one week. So Caitlin and Tasia are stepping in. They are not host. They aren't co-hosting. They're stepping in to facilitate this season and give advice and host dates. And yeah, and good for them.

I actually disagree that he can't do the education. and be on the show at the same time. I don't think that's true. Okay, well, there's a whole group of people that agree with you on that. It's not, of course he could do both. Yeah. But then what, but if there's consequences

for your actions, then hopping into the next season isn't stepping aside. And I think the show is trying, in the franchise is trying to put out a message that he's getting, you know, these are repercussions to his actions. Look, look,

I actually think this is letting them off the hook too easy, you know? giving him all this free time to go do his African-American studies, his niggology. From his race educator. Or whatever he has to do. You ever heard of correspondence courses? Do you know what those are? Oh, of course.

Of course. So back in the day, kids that went to school and they would go to summer school, some kids didn't want to go to summer school. They didn't want to give their summer up. So what they did was they took the correspondence course. You know, we didn't have online, right? So you send off for stuff? Yeah.

They send it back, you get a packet, you study it, and then you go take a test. You did this? I didn't, but I knew people who did. Okay. You know what I mean? I knew people who did the correspondence courses. It always would be like, you know, we'd be playing or something like that, and they'd be like, I got to go home. I got school at 6 p.m.

I'd be like, what the hell you mean? You got school at 6 p.m. Because you're doing the correspondence course as well as going to McKinley. Right. Think about what kind of life Chris Harrison would have had if during the day he had to do the Bachelorette, right? And then during the night, he had to learn about Kwanza. But think about the interesting tidbits that he could drop throughout the Bachelorette. To the contestants that...

It would be so crazy. I'm not even entertaining as Kwanza. It would be so... It would be so... It would be so crazy, right? It would be so crazy to just watch him integrate everything he's learning that day with... In real time, with what's going on in The Bachelor, right? He could do that later.

He could, but it would be, it's not going to be the same. All right, because now it would be fresh on his mind. He'd be talking to the girls, he'd be like, listen, we have some snacks out here for you ladies. We have some champagne. And we have some peanuts. Interestingly enough. No, no, not peanuts. The peanut was really the single, the single.

driving force of the genius of a man named George Washington Carver who came up with various different ways to utilize this amazing lagoon known as a peanut. Did you guys know that? And did you also know that George Washington Carver was a black man? Interesting moment for the show. It didn't even have to be that way. Can you imagine? I just want you to sit back and digest that for a second.

I'm fucking with that. imagine if there were breaks where he would pause and give the audience black history. I love that. That's the idea. See, this is the stuff that they're not thinking of, which is why I should be a part of this. Actually, it's why you should not. This is the stuff that they're not thinking of. Like, think about it.

He's sitting there and the guy runs in and to save, like, think about it. When Dale saved Claire, when Dale save Chip, right? Claire, yeah, from Yosef. From Yosef, right? Dale runs in and he goes, you came in like a swashbuckler. Speaking of swashbuckling, novels like The Count of Monty Cristo and Three Musketeers

featuring characters such as the Count and D'Artagnan were written by Alexander Dumas. Did you know that Alexander Dumas was a black man? Boom! And like people get a little bit of You're not, you're not, you're not really, you're not giving the idea in the oxygen is what you're not doing. You're not in any way thinking, see, that's the problem.

You know what would be so much greater? That's not the problem. Rather than giving us a history lesson or a sentence or two of something that you learned of a historical black figure, I'd rather like him, I'd rather like to hear him say something along the lines of listening to somebody's conversation to be like, actually, you shouldn't say that. that's a microaggression. Let me give you another example of that. You see what I'm saying? That's what I want.

That's what I want. Oh, did you say woke? Did you say woke? Yeah, I'm against the, I'm not, I'm against the woke mob, Rachel. Chris. Like, it's too, like the woke mob. Who are you?

Hey, it's all love, guys. It's all love. Everything's going to be okay. Oh, this will be a headline. This is being a subred. It's all love, guys, I promise. I promise. I know they're not going to do the Black History Minute on The Bachelor or The Bachelor.

It actually would be so hysterical if they did, though. It's so hysterical. It would be funny. It would be funny. It would be very funny. All right. That's enough. That's enough. That's enough.

So. Would you like to predict who's going to win? Matt's Bachelor? Who's going to win? Rachel Kirklandale. That's your prediction. Okay. I think that's the worst kept secret.

I think that's pretty much the worst kept secret. Okay. Are they together or not? Right now, I would have to say they're probably not together. Okay. I would say no. Oh, on Thursday, will you rate Emmanuel Acha? Yes, I will. Okay.

Do you want me to winnie roast him? Well, should I do a movie? He might not make the weaning roast. I mean, he might have a zero or one. Yeah. I mean, he doesn't have a high weaning percentage. Like, not that I've seen. That's what I changes people.

I, too, might have rated a five or six when I was on the best ride. I have to go back and look. I have to go back and look. I have to go back and look and then give you a weekly winning rating. You got things to do. And speaking of things to do, speak of things to do, let's take the moment to recognize one of our own. Okay. Last? Yes, Van. We got so exciting news this morning.

Were you up? Let me tell you. Let me ask you questions like I ask people on the on extra. Let's do it. For those of you who are late to the party and who don't know, our own Van Lathen has been nominated for an Academy Award. Yay! Van, who is the first person who told you that you were nominated for an Oscar? It was Kalika. She pounced. Tears, crying. She pounced.

Like a little mouse. She goes, Van, it happened. You nominated for an Academy Award. She pounced. And I literally went, oh, that's dope. And then I turned over and, like,

went back to sleep. No. I'll be honest with you. I couldn't be more happy and humble and on it, but I was so tired because it took me so long to get to sleep last night.

I was so anxious. I was so anxious, man. I was. so anxious last night. Okay, but now you can let that go. Oh, now I can let it go. You can let it go. So how does it feel? Honestly, like how, what, like,

I'll probably never know what it is to be nominated. Okay, so let's stay right there. Okay, let's stay right there. Okay. Okay. All right. So you don't know that. You're right.

I don't know that. Okay. So let's stay right there. Okay. So being a, I would watch, the Academy Awards as a kid, right? Every show, every time. Wow.

Every year. My love for film and my love for storytelling is something that's deeply rooted within me. It transformed my brain to different places. You know, I would just, a lot of times home life was chaotic. Growing up in Baton Rouge, a lot of times it was chaotic. But then I would like, movies with guys with lightsabers moving things around with their mind or movies about amazing looking talented artistic black people in Harlem or whatever they might exist stories about all

over the place and I would get lost in them and it's like really how the narrative of my life was it was woven through film through people telling their stories and sharing their experiences that's why I'm so interested in hearing people's stories and where they're from and like you know what their parents are and all that. I just love stories. So every year I watch the Academy Awards, every single year. And when I moved to Los Angeles, one of the first places I lived was on the corner of Franklin and LaBreya, which is right around the corner from the Dovey Theater. And when you live there for about a month and a half around the time of the Academy Wars, it's just chaos.

Months, like a couple of weeks before, a month before they're setting up and then a week out. after they're breaking it down. And then like you're right there and you see it. Like people are, it happens to people. They get nominated for things. It's not some weird, ethereal thing that only exists out there in some land that you can't access, right? It happens.

It's real for people and they're doing the whole thing about it. So I'm in TMZ one day. And, you know, I'm at TMZ one day and I'm having a, There's some debate happening in the office, and the debate is about, it's about somebody's Academy Award. I guess it's who should have won, what should have happened,

where things should have gone, how it should have went, right? Something like that. And it's either me or Harvey or me and somebody else who are going back and forth over this. And somebody in the office goes, well, we can stop talking about that

because that's something that's never, ever going to happen to, of us. We'll never have that problem. And right away, I thought to myself and I said out loud, you don't know that. Like, and it was a wake-up moment

from my adult life. I was like, you don't know, you don't know what I can't do or what's not going to happen for me. You don't tell me what my ceiling is. because I don't even know that, right? Like, you don't know that. And people are looking around and they're wondering why I'm taking this so personally

is because, and I wasn't taking, it was an emotional reaction because it was something that I wouldn't say that I've dreamt about my entire life, but as something that I've wanted to access. No, I did. Fuck it. No, I dreamt about my entire life. my entire life I dreamt about it. My whole life I dreamt about it.

Yeah. My whole life I wanted to believe that it could happen to me. And just being around somebody that was saying, that's never going to happen to anybody. I'm like, no, you don't know that. There's no way you can know that. And I'm not about to live a life where I walk around counting the things that aren't going to happen for me.

Now, it might have never happened. And it might never happen again, although it will. but I just wonder and if there's anything that people and I know I'm droning on but if there's anything that people can take from what it is that is happening to myself

Trayvon Free Jesse Williams Martin Desmond Roe Nick May Diddy Jesse Williams Lawrence Bender Zaria Joey Badass Andrew Howard

you know Mickey everybody that's involved is that all we did let's take the idea go get what we need to get and then execute it. We just made it happen.

Just about to say that. And everybody just worked. And everybody just believed. But it started with the belief that we could make something dope. So, long story short, and I don't want to, like,

get super emotional. But, like, man, don't let nobody take your belief. Like, serious. I don't care who they are. Like, don't let nobody take your belief. I so wish you would get emotional right now because I can see that you're almost there.

No, I see it because I feel like, I could almost feel like I truly feel like I was nominated. I do. I felt that when I saw, like, I woke up. That's the first text that I saw this morning is that you were nominated. And that, that's what Van just did right there in church, you call that a testimony. That's what that, that's exactly what

That wasn't. And honestly, man, somebody who was just listening to this needed to hear that. Somebody was told that they couldn't do it or maybe they told themselves like I just said. I mean, I'm not trying to get Oscar, but I'm just saying. Yeah. Somebody, too often we tell ourselves we can't do that. That's not going to happen or we let somebody dictate that for us. Tell us how our lives are going to turn out. So somebody needed to hear that.

Thank you for sharing that. Please tell people if you haven't already where they can catch two distant strangers. Well, guess what? They can't catch it because we don't have any distribution yet, but the reality is that they're distributors that are lining up and you'll be able to see the movie very soon,

but if you really want to see it, if you super badly want to see it, we're going to have some big screenings for people that can come watch the movie. Oh, I do want to say one thing real quick. Friday night, there was a Thought Warriors clubhouse room. Okay? I didn't catch it.

They invited me to the clubhouse room, but I was so nervous the entire weekend that all I really did was kind of sleep and fret. So I was supposed to go into the clubhouse room. I did not get on Clubhouse Friday night and going to the Clubhouse room. So everybody that went there that may be expected to see me, I am sorry, and I will be there.

I will come to the next five. But I couldn't appreciate more. Rachel, I know that you feel the same way. The fact that there are conversations being had about the podcast on these various apps. I love it. So I definitely, definitely will show up into the Higher Learning Clubhouse chat. Can I also just say that I now fully understand your disappointment in me when I haven't seen movies? I understand why you take it personal because of how it is so.

intertwined in your life. And I'm like, no, never see it, never, never cared to. Yeah. I just, I would sit around and, you know, I would, I had such a weird childhood. I would read encyclopedias and watch movies. And then one day, it may be like, because I always notice, but one day, I remember, I can remember this like yesterday. There was a girl and she walked by in some pink shorts.

They were like bike shorts. And I was like, yo, her ass is moving. And boom, that was it. My life changed. After that... I'm sorry, how did we get there? I'm just saying, like, that was the end of wonderment. Because when puberty hits, your brain is like, peepoo!

So you put the encyclopedia down is what you said. Put the encyclopedia down. Follow that thing. Follow that thing. Shoot up. You know what I mean? And my game at that, at that, like, at that age was. so whack, too. I was so whack.

Who had a great game at, like, 12? This is crazy. I see girls out there doing their things. I come out there like, hey, y'all want to play some kickball? You know what I'm saying? That was the game. It was trying to get them involved in a sport. Kickball probably would have got me.

Kickball, you would have succumb to the kickball game? I would succumb to the kickball game. Play kickball. You know what I'm saying? Play kickball. All right. We have a very special guest right now. We're going to take a break, but when we come back, little Moe, R&B Queen, some of the anthems that you've heard or put it on me with Jaru, Sokutu.

Hot boys. Hot boys, like all of these joints. You know what I mean? Well, I don't think she sings on Sokuton. Yes. I think she's in a video. Oh, yeah, she does sing on Sokuton. I think she does.

But Lil Moe, who's been through some ups and downs in her career, but is so brave and forthright in discussing everything that she's been through and everything that she's going to do. We're going to have her in a second on higher learning when we take a quick break. Be right back. Did you know about one and three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you?

Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimfaya, gusalcumab taken by injection, is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaques psoriasis, who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy, and for adults with active psorchomaphobias. arthritis. Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur. Before a treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away.

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Yo! We have royalty in the house. we actually do. Somebody has been doing that thing and music, man, for a long, long time. I've got a brand new album coming out. You guys all know the voice, you know, from so many different things.

You know what? So many of these records take me back to a time. I got actually a story to a little more record. I don't know if I could tell it on the podcast, but... You have to now. Now that you just said that, you have to tell it. Because I want to know.

No, I don't want to implicate nobody. Maybe by the end of it, if we really bother. And first of all, we'll even get to that. Give it up a little Mose, joining us today on High Learning. How are you doing today, sister? I'm doing good. How about you? I'm doing good.

Oh, I hear the Baltimore. We're great. You know the vibe? I hear the Baltimore. Hey, you like, see, I'm doing good. How about you? Like, that Baltimore. Yeah, I hear that Baltimore.

So you got brand new stuff coming out. Yeah. But you are like a household name to all of us because of the work that you've done throughout the course of your career, the time that you've been on television screens. Like, tell us about like the beginning of your career because if somebody was to ask the question, because you were huge, gigantic. Like everywhere, big records on your own, on everybody else's records. How did that, how did you get to that point what it seemed like so quickly to get that hot?

What was that like? Honestly, to this day, I don't know how I got to that point because, like, I tell people, it started out literally as a joke. I didn't have a demo tape. I didn't have a manager. I didn't have anybody connected in the industry besides, honestly, Missy Elliott hearing some of my, I guess, demo CDs that I used to send up to a lecture and the rest is history. I can accredit my name being Little Moe to my uncle being John Piqui, but even with that, for me to take off the way I did.

Yeah, that's my uncle. That's how I started singing at the end of 15, touring, you know, in high school, brain hair during the week, and then going on tour from Friday to Sunday, then going back to school. and my dad would take me from Fayetteville to Charlotte and we would tour the world literally within three days and we would drive because my uncle does not get on the airplane. So it was just like, it was destined to happen because I think I spoke it into existence

when I was like four years old saying I would be a singer or a superstar, but never in my life did I think that at the age of 19 in hair school that I would be calling Missy Elliott from a pay phone and Green Acres Mall Valley Stream and she said, yo, you want to go on a row? And I'm like, yes, well, when can you get here? Now?

So it's just like, I moved around and like destiny happened that day from getting my, I remember getting my nails done and using a painful. I had a beeper. So the rest is history. I used to literally watch Martin and be like, oh, I could do radio.

Oh, he's crazy. So I just tunked my way into the game. And I just been finesse and there. this. Wait, what do you mean when you say it was a joke? Because I literally, like, the way I got in touch with a lecture was, I was calling up there and like, yo, y'all all my people some checks. So they was like, who is this person calling it? And like, like, we owe somebody some money. So I was like, yeah, we sent some demo tapes up there and y'all owe us a check. And then

Rick Brown was Merle and Bob's assistant so I used to be calling up there Barker so when they met me in real life they was like this little person was the one that was

like calling up like I'm coming up there like I really thought I was on some shit night things they fit and so when they met me they was like oh my God

you got to be kidding me like I'm 411 I probably then I'm probably like 11 12 pounds with wet clothes on so I

I popped shit on my way into the game. And then after that, when I realized me and Missy was the same height, I was like, yes, it's up from here on El. Right. So from there, you do records with Missy. You do records with, like, everybody. Name some of the people. Like, who was hot?

Like, name some of the people just, rejop people's memories that you did records with at that. Missy, Jay-Z, Whitney Houston, Tupac. He was already gone on to glory, but I was doing records. with him. And I was just like, oh, wow, that's crazy. Because I really wanted to get in the industry to to meet Tupac. So I started getting tattoos and everything because I was like, oh, I'm going to be the female Tupac. But my uncle was the one, I wanted to be a rapper, but my uncle was the one

that told me to sing because he was like, you'll last longer. And I'm so glad that I took his advice because he was like, I don't think you realize that your voice will like take you a long way. Like, you can rap, you can rap. But it's something about singing and touching the people. with your voice that will honestly I've been here for two decades so he was right so I guess my question is you go you're smoking hot and everything is popping off

yeah so when people say yo man what happened to little mo like what's the answer to that question what do you think the answer to that question is not that you ever went anywhere but I'm just saying oh you went so okay so like yeah I went somewhere what's the answer to the question like what happened to Little Moe? I would say I happened to Little Moe

because like I said, I finessed myself in, but your gift will make room for itself. But, you know, the finesse will only get you so far. And I got overwhelmed and I would say I let the industry get the best of me so I took a much

needed hiatus. So then I started doing reality TV and then stuff started happened. I'm like, wait man, this wasn't part of the plan. Then I started doing radio and then I got fired and I was like, wait, this wasn't part of the plan. So I would get in the room and I would work it, but I didn't know how to keep myself there because I realized that

you have to have a game player for the next level. So one thing about me is just like, I was one of the people that would be like, I'm going to fight everybody in this bitchy. I'm not about to play with me. But I didn't realize I was taking business personal when I should have taken my business and my personal

more personal. I was taking everything else personal. I was joining myself into things that I had no business. Joining into it ain't had nothing to do with me. but that's my personality. Like I always was the underdog, so I fought for other underdogs, and I always wanted to see other people win,

but I talked my way out of a lot of situations because I was like, no, we ain't on that type time. Like, I think I literally became Tupa. Is there one situation in particular that you wish you would have done differently? There's a couple. Honestly, my personal situations, I would have done differently

because those started making the blogs more than, I would say, my music. Once I started seeing that the bullshit was making the headlines more than the business, that's when I was just like, wait, man, no, we got to change this narrative. So you would hear more about my marriage or my exes and things that I was going through more than I would have to long on to see what the fuck was going on in my life. I was like, oh, this thing is jit-in? I'd be like, I don't even know.

Lomo, one of the things that you've been, I appreciate is your, honesty. You're so honest. You've been honest about things that you've gone through whether it's in the industry, whether it's personally. And one of the things you've talked about is mental health and addiction. And you've talked about being able to overcome that. I'm just curious if you could speak

a little bit towards that, especially with the year that we've had and how you've been able to maintain that and continue to fight through it. You know what? I had a great conversation with a great friend of mine this morning who

I haven't spoke to in almost three years, Kat Williams. And when he said call me, I was like, O.G. said call. Like, I was on the highway so excited because I was just like, I have my team, and then I have my people on the side that I just be like, yo, let me make sure I'm doing the right thing.

And for him to tell me that you're doing the right thing, because he saw me when I was going through the addiction. And he never wanted to see me that way. That's why when certain things were happening with him, he was just like, just make sure that you take care of babies and you stay protected. And I wasn't protected out here for the simple fact that I was just running around in the trenches. Like literally, I used to be in the streets of North Philly.

Now, mind you, I've lived everywhere in the world. Atlanta, North Carolina, Dag on New York, and Baltimore. So I've seen both sides of the coin. So the addiction, I would say that when I was going through it, I didn't see it. But I went back to my social media because my manager was just like, you thought you was lit, didn't you? And I was looking back and I was just like, well, I don't know why I was doing this right here.

And he was like, you was just posting any and everything. And you look crazy. Why didn't nobody tell you that you look basically to fuck crazy? And I was like, I don't know. I was like, nobody could tell me anything, I guess, at that point. So like opioids, them things are a hell of a drug. because nowadays you don't know what people are putting in them and you don't know what you get in

and I remember there was a time where someone had gave me a pill and I'm pretty sure somebody else might have taken it and died but God still wanted me to be here. So when I first took that specific pill which was supposed to be a 30, which I used to take so many to start my day, like I just remember like, this don't feel faint. I don't feel nothing.

Then when I couldn't sleep for almost like, Three days, I was like, this ain't no ecstasy because I took X back in the day. You know what I'm saying? We used to be lit. So I was like, bro, I felt like I was going to die. So I started speaking up and out against

opioids because I saw what it made me do. And I saw it make you feel like, like you're bigger than what you are. Like, I don't know. Maybe it was my Napoleon complex. It's hard to explain, but that experience was, like, no, I don't want to feel like this

no more. I thought I was going to die. And I was just like, oh, my God, what would happen to my children if I left this earth? Like, you, you being so selfish, Mo, like, you don't realize that you have a kid that's going to college and you have a kid that's going to kindergarten now.

But, like, before then, it was just like, I love my children, but I didn't love myself enough to, like, I literally had to get to myself, like, what the fuck is you doing it yourself? The things that I was accepting, the things that I was allowing, and now that I take full accountability for them,

it was just like, it was the drugs, man. It was the drugs. So if God gives you a chance to get away from that, to pull away from that, self-medicating, trying to heal yourself through anything that honestly should not be ingested in your body, then you have to be a testimony and a testament for people that's looking up and out for you,

that's just like, yo, you're better than this. And the best thing that's happened during this pandemic, because my daughter's are honors, psych major in college, looking at the 60% rise in suicide in the black community, suicide in the adolescent and teen community, looking at the opioid addiction amongst black women, black children, the black community as a whole.

I was like, oh, my God. now I see why God brought me out of it because I got a spearhead this whole campaign to get people off these drugs because it's all in the mind. How did you get off of them? Like what, I mean, you, what, I mean, I understand it was a mindset that brought you out of it,

but what did you have to do? Did you do rehab? Did you see help? Like, how did you get yourself off of it? It was a collection of things. It was me being in the marriage boot camp house. That was the tip of the iceberg. Really? Marriage Boo camp helped?

Yeah. With Dr. V and Dr. Ish, they knew what was the vibes. They know what it was given. They knew what I was up to. And they knew why I was there. So even though I called myself trying to save a marriage that was already done with, but the check was lit. Let's just be real. I really wanted help for myself. I wanted to see if somebody else could see what I was feeling. And they knew. And there was a lot of things that didn't make the screens,

but it was going on behind the scenes. And Dr. Ish told me, he was like, once you realize who you are, you're going to take over the world. So that's when I knew, I was like, oh, it's up and it's stuff. So literally, after I left that house on August 25th and on August 26,

where my ex, like, really spit on me and stuff like that, that's what I knew I had to make a 360 change. And so, like, literally for the past, what was it, 2021, for the past, Two years, I've been going hard for myself because I didn't want to lose myself then. Like, in the bullshit that I honestly put myself in. So I knew there was a bigger picture and there was a bigger mission and thing for me. So that's why I did the savage.

I'm doing the savage heart album and broken heart. Like a lot of things are coming from me literally starting from ground zero. So you mentioned, you just mentioned broken hearts. Talk about your new single. Tell us the inspiration behind it. Everything, chow. I mean, just for the past 20 years, me being a little moe, like I realized it just felt like I was saving people,

but I was losing myself. So I had the superwoman, the anthems, the put-it-on-mys, the forevers, like singing all those songs that are biggest songs at weddings, but I can't stay married to save my goddamn life. You feel me? So it was just like I felt like I was living a lot. I had to start from scratch.

I had to reboot, reset, and I honestly am glad for the pandemic because I've been running for years straight, like literally running all my life thinking I'm chasing a dream or a bag, but I was running for myself. I don't know what I was afraid of, but it was like I didn't like what I was becoming. So broken heart came from a broken place, but it's not a sad girl anthem. It's honestly empowering and uplifted to the point. It's just like, when you get to the point, when you get to the point, when you get to to your lowest point, you ask God, like, well, what did I do?

Like, is this my karma? Like, show me where I went wrong. Can I get a peek in the book of what you writing down for me or about me? Because they be saying, you know, in the church, they say, well, God knew what you was going to do before you did. And I'd be like, well, I wish you would have gained me a peak. So I could at least, you know, switched it on up. But at the end of the day, God gives us, we all have that choice.

And I made some bad choices. So Broken Heart came from a place where I was tired of making bad choices. Bad habits preceding me. Me knowing all the people at the top, but not getting invited to the lit shit, but get invited to the wretched shit because of my behavior. Now, I'm a good person, but I made some bad decisions. I wasn't raised that way, but I made those choices. So I made the choice to flip all that.

So Broken Heart came from a place of me finding the greatest love of all within myself. And just as much as I thought and saw that I was going through things Is somebody going through something worse than me? We saw I saw where Vanessa Barnes said she has a forgiven God For what happened to COVID I was like, whoa, that's deep. But I've been there.

Not saying that I've lost a husband and a child that way, but I've lost whole families. I got three baby daddies, let's just be real. But I don't claim them. I just claim my kids. Like we just related to the same kids. kids. So it's just like, it is what it is.

I just realized I was making bad history and patterns and decisions that I don't even want my children to make. So broken heart came from that. So honestly, I broke my own heart chasing something that I know I ain't had no business around or allowed in my space. So I'm trying to just, you know,

change my whole narrative and get that all back because I owe that to myself. Now, we talked about the fact that your rise in the end of the end of the end. industry was meteor, so many hits, so many records you were on. Is there anything that you learned about the industry when you got into it that you weren't, that you, you wasn't, that you, that you weren't prepared for? Is there anything you weren't prepared for?

Like, what, what, what, what was the thing, the biggest thing that shocked you or that you weren't ready for just being new on the scene like that? Shoot, everything. Or that you would tell, or that you would warn a young, artist about? Everything. Because I thought that all I had to do was sing and then that was it. But I didn't realize the business side. I didn't realize the importance of not burning certain bridges. I didn't realize the importance of sometimes sitting down and taking my ass home. I didn't realize sometimes

just like listening and paying attention because I think I always play, I always blame it on me being the Scorpio. It's just like, I think, I always blame it on me being a Scorpio. It's just like, I I think for people, I always feel that I have to be ahead of the game. And this and that, I do believe that I would always been ahead of my time. But one thing I didn't take serious was that you have your gift and you have the business. Your gift is going to make room for you, but the business, like you have your own lane and stick with that. But I was so busy. I don't know.

I was just, I was just all over the place. And for new artists coming in, I would just always say that stay true to who you are. you don't have to be like everybody else. I can do what they can do. They can't do what I can do. And I realize that. Like, I know I can't dance, but I can sing. I know, there's just a lot of things.

I know my weaknesses and I know my strengths. And I should have focused more on my strips instead of showing the world my weaknesses. You feel me? So it's just like, I'm just glad that I'm still aware that I can reel it on end. So to the new artist, I'd just be like, keep going. I let up.

I shouldn't have never took my foot off nobody next. Period. Like, I fight myself about that so much because it was just like, bitch, you let everybody pass you. But not this time. Not no more. We're excited that you're back. We're excited that you have your new single.

You just talked about new artists. We had the Grammys just this week. Are you excited about the future of R&B music and who are you excited about specifically right now? Actually, yeah. I love this generation because I love. the fact that people's like, oh, we want that 90s R&B back. And I was like, when we was in the 90s

and the 2000, everybody wanted the 60s back. It's not coming back. Let it be. For those who remain, God bless them. I'm glad to be in the number. I'm glad that God has preserved me and my looks. And I got kids in this generation that will tell me that nobody cares. My kids are my biggest critics. So I don't care

with the world. My son would tell me, no, my sit your butt down. You're a mother. And it's like, it is, what it is. But the artist that I'm looking forward to and that I love their vibe is so many from like the Post Malones, the Billy Ilishes, the Coily Raises, the Summer Walkers.

I call them slack, but my somebody like, it's black mom. And I'm like, I love this generation of artists. What's the, Blue DaVit? What's his name? Daytime is. Young Blue. Young Blue. You almost went back to the, you almost went back to the BMF days right there. You say Blue Da Vinci.

Y'all was about to the be. I almost got caught slipping. I just love the direction that is going because it's blending the all with the news. The sounds have changed. You don't have to do 100 background vocals. And ad lives all over the place. Like, with broken heart with my single, I just say straight through, through my pay, one track. My son is so hype.

He did the backgrounds. Oh, word. Oh, yeah. Like, so he's the future. He's about to make his. right, bye. Is that Justin? Yeah. That's Justin. He was called because he told me. People

know me, Mom. I told you they want to see me. Because that's going to be, that's going to be the biggest beef in history because my son was like, but you know what? He gets that from me. It's just like, I told you they want to see me. I told you who they want to go see. So I'm making room. Like, I'm putting myself back out there again so that he'll have a chance. But I told him it's not going to be easy for you. You're going to have to work three times. as harder as me because a lot of people are going to say, oh, well, he just gets it easy because of his mother is,

no, you're going to have it harder because of the shit that I've done. So it's going to fire back and fall back on you. So you just got to be ready because the world is unforgiving. And now we have social media. So you do something crazy or raggedy or wrong or I do something that's going to fall on you. And you can't fight everybody. You got to learn when to just fall back and just be like, take the bitter with the sweet, take the, pick your back.

battles wisely because I put myself with some battles that I shouldn't even join into, but I'm a fighter and I'm a lover, but now we're changing all that. Let's talk about that real quick. You said that you burned some bridges. If there was one bridge that you burned that you could build back, what would that be? Who would that be with? It's not even a personal bridge. It's just like when I started doing radio, because I was in.

inside the industry, I realized when I would have to do like celebrity gossip or stuff like that or just be, you know, give the rundown, be like, nope, I was there. So I know this person was given. Like, I already know this person. So why would they, I would always wonder like, why is y'all do a dumb shit? Like, I esteem y'all to up here and you're acting like down there. But I was doing the same thing. So it was just like there was like artists that to this day I'm just like, I don't even know you in real life. So why are you mad at me? You did some dumb stuff.

Right. But at the end of the day, like, if I, if I would have known then what I'd know now, not saying there were any people that were off limits, but I wouldn't even give them any kind of, like, time to even report the crazy stuff that they was doing. Because at the end of the day, I was doing crazy stuff. And people like, well, you don't talk about your stuff. And I was like, yes, I did. But I honestly wasn't doing nothing crazy.

It was people around me. But it was a reflection of me. So now it's just me and my kids and my manager that just be out here just running around and making it happen. I learned less is more. Word up. This year, later this year, you're celebrating the 20th anniversary of your debut album.

Crazy. Now you're dropping a new single this year. So still doing music 20 years later, you don't see that that often in this industry. What does that mean to you, knowing that you're celebrating that anniversary, but then also putting out new music. It means a lot.

Because honestly, if it was up to me, I would have quit a long time ago, but it was just something in me that just kept me going. It was just like, honestly, since this all you know, like I've never had another job in my life besides doing, you know, it's always been entertainment. I've never had a regular job that I could go back to.

I never went to law school like I wanted to. Oh, girl, I did that. Don't do that. You didn't miss anything. This is all you know. This is your love. This is your passion. So don't give up.

So with that, it's like, it was a lot of labels who were like, you know, didn't want to do, not saying they didn't want to do business, but I was so used to getting the big bucks. Like Sylvia Roe used to cut checks. Cash money was cutting checks. So when you go to a label now and you play a music

and they don't see the vision, you're just like, wait, bitch, I haven't been in this game for this many years. And they think that you're not the wave no more. Then you'd be like, what, you're right. Now watch this. So then I reinvented myself and it's

just like all of my relationships I'm carrying them over and adding a 10. So I think I got another 20 years left in me because like that's how hard I go. So with the music and my sound like I still

sound like when I first came out but it don't sound old. You know like some people voices be old and weird. Like I'm I'm glad that my voice is still youthful, and I can still, like, I still... When you say stuff like that, I so want to be like, who are you talking about?

Who are you? No, it's just like... I know, but I want you to do. No, but it's just like, you know, like, there are tones that when music changes, there are certain tones that just won't be conducive to this generation. So I realized that there was a time I just thought that my voice was, I didn't want to sound old.

Like doing, I would say, we used to do literally 5, 5, 5, 5. 30 backgrounds. That's crazy. And then a lead track, then an ad lit. That's fucking nuts. So it's just like you don't have to do that no more. You have to know. Right.

When I say, and then we didn't have the access. Like today you could push it, you could do it from your phone and delete it right. You would have to start from scratch. So because the industry has changed so much, it's like, I'm glad that finally I get to be all like a damn be. Right. So I do have to ask you about one thing. It's not so positive.

A couple of years ago, you got in some hot water over a breakfast club interview that you had did. Do you remember this when you talked about the R. Kelly situation and his accusers? Do you remember this interview? Yeah, I remember it. But I forgot what I had said. So remind me. Um, they were talking about, let me just, let me just let me just let you know.

That's when I, that's when sis was living, live a little love. So I end up telling. So, okay, okay. Okay. So, um, they, they brought up the R. Kelly situation. Uh, and you said, I'm very overprotective of my children. So with the R. Kelly situation, like with the parents, I'm like, like, are you serious? She said, you said you give 88% of the blame to,

the parents asking who was around to monitor the R. Kelly situation. And a lot of people took that. And you also said during that interview, you said, honestly it gets to the point to where you say I ain't see nothing because

when that's your partner, your ride talking about the R. Kelly situation and how you always had people's backs, but you felt like nobody ever had your back. People got mad when you said that, seeming as if that you were given R. Killing are killing out for some of the things that he was accused of and then later

convicted of. Do you see why people were upset about what it was that you said? You do. You do see why people were upset. Yeah, of course. But coming from my background, because I've been through molestation, it's just like, yeah. Like, I've survived a lot. So because I didn't give that backstory, then when asked and put on the spot right, then it's just like, okay, this is my take on it. Because it's just so many ways that this can go, but this is the best way to break it down. I'm a mother of five. I can't watch everything that they all do, but I can monitor it. So when my daughter leaves out the house, my daughter's 18, she's technically an adult.

So when she leaves out the house, all I can do is pray that she takes what I've given her as a mother, that she's learned for me as a parent, and that she doesn't make the same mistakes that I made. I have a daughter that's 16. She's more, what do you call it?

She's a recluse, so she stays to herself. So I've always wondered, is everything okay? Like, I'm real overprotective. So if my daughters are going somewhere or doing some things, I'm going to have that intuition and be like, where they are?

I've never in my life dropped my kids off to nobody else's house. It's just some accountability as a parent that I felt that there was a lack thereof. And then different stories that I was getting from

people that went to inside. I was like, well, parents were just dropping it. And I'm like, what? So I didn't understand that. Right. But I just think that it was just like

Can I ask you something about Can I ask you something? Yeah. I didn't know that about your- And I've never made him a day of my life. Right. I didn't know that about your history. Is it possible that you reacted

and blamed the parents, which R. Kelly is a vile piece of shit. But is it possible that you reacted and blamed the parents because you wish that there might have been somebody there to protect you in the situation that you had gone through? Looking back,

because I never told my parents who was having. My dad actually found out when we did the diva lungs or R&B divas. So I carried that trauma and that PTSD and that anger around like, nobody protecting me when this was happening. The only person I felt protecting me then was my cousin because the same thing happened to my sister.

My sister told my cousin, my cousin went to the person and was like, if you touch anybody in my family again, I'm going to kill you. So it was just like, where were those type of people like, no, I always felt like, I know that people are sneaky, but I'm just like, nobody sees what's going on. But I always felt like, oh, my God, he's not the only one.

It's so much of it running rampant in the industry. Now we have social media where you can pretty much expose people and post everything, but it was just like there was a part of me that was just like, I'm glad my parents never accepted us. like we weren't allowed to even be in grown folks conversation, let alone be around grown folks. So I honestly felt for the victims or what happened. I'm just like, dang, so it just felt like they were put in harm's way.

They're watching like so many things over the years. I watched the Jerry Epstein thing. I'm just like, it just goes from somebody planting that seed. And it just, hey, you don't go over here and do this. Like, it just so much. And I think it came from a hurt place. That's why I was just like, I'm just real cognizant now on how I deal with those type of subjects because I came out of that.

Right. Mm-hmm. Right. I'm glad you had the chance to explain that because you never know what people go through or what they've been through. A advantage of a follow-up. I'm sorry. No, that was some real shit.

Yeah. No, go ahead. But I'm woman enough to admit that I was wrong for saying it like that, but I did not. That's what I'm saying. I ain't mean it like that, but it's just like, I admit I was wrong because I wasn't there.

And honestly, it wasn't none of my business. And you understand, though, how, well, I will say it is our business to protect black girls. Yeah, to protect black girls. But you understand why

giving R. Kelly, any oxygen or latitude with anyone is going to upset and enraise a lot of people. You, like, he gets it. Now I see. Right. Yeah. But like you say,

said you're saying you were wrong. You're recognizing that, but then explaining why you gave the answer that you did. Let me ask you this. Just spit it to a more positive note. What's next for you? What's next? Yep. Well, besides Broken Heart that's streaming on every platform, it's like the world is my

hoist at this point. I want to do everything that, first of all, coming back from my respect. So with that, excuse me. Okay. It's like because I lost. a lot of my respect for myself because I was just like doing anything. But we put a cap on that.

It's just like, nah, I've turned down, this whole pandemic, I've turned down reality TV shows. I was like, nope, I'm putting myself in a different life. So with that, I get to do everything I want to do. So not only am I releasing the Savage Heart album project that I've been working on and my team, we just like, we got some new music coming. I've also tapped in with the other band, Van Jones and his team for the prison reform. because I have family. Yeah.

Like I always want to be a lawyer. So since I can't get my Esquire, it's just like I'm still going to fight for those that are innocently sitting behind bars over the weirdest charges of violations. I'm like, this cannot continue. Great work they're doing over there for them. Very much so.

So I was a part of the empathy project that they had going on. So I'm moving forward with that. And it's just like, I know that I'm the voice that can be heard. So I want to be sure that this time I'm saying good things and I'm using my empathy and I'm using my voice for the right thing. Because even if I'm not speaking, if I tweet it or put it out there in the atmosphere, that stuff comes back. Sure. And you can get canceled for something you said 20 years ago.

Right. You feel me? So it's just like I'm trying to do my part to do the right thing and uplift at this point. Now, don't sleep. Since still on go, but it's for a good reason. For real. Because you know, once you come back, I'm like, oh, she's on deepened.

And it's just like, nah, I'm just more passionate and empathetic of, like, the damage that I've done. So I want to be real sure that my sin don't trickle down to my kids or that they don't have to pay for some of the things that I've done.

You feel me? All right. All right. I'm looking forward to the music. Always love your voice. Thank you. I also want to see you back. I want to see you and Jock get back on.

I want to see you back with Missy. I want to see. I like that shit. See, I just spoke to FAM yesterday. Hell yeah. That's amazing. That's amazing. You get back with FAB.

All right. Seriously, it was a pleasure to talk to you and really to get us an understanding of some of the things that you've overcome. And, you know, despite whatever you might hear, man, you're a big part of a lot of our cultural DNA. You know, we root for you. Just keep going. Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you so much. No problem. Thanks for having me. No problem. Please. This episode is brought to you by Prime. Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want.

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You know, same way I told you, somebody need to hear that. Somebody needs to hear what she had to say too. So thank you, Lil' Mo for coming on talking with us, being so open. Of course. And then saying she wants to do more. To do more. We love that. We love people who love us.

So here's the thing. I was intrigued by a story that happened these past couple of days. There is a new excuse for racism that I've never seen before. It's not funny. I'll tell you something. Racism is having a hilarious couple of weeks. I'm not going to lie. Is it, wait, is it that it's hilarious or are we just like, you know what?

I just got to laugh my way through this. No, these things are legitimately funny. I'm sorry. Okay. I don't care. This stuff is legitimately funny. So what do we have? We had Greg McDermott from Creighton and the plantation joint.

The plantation. And then what was it last week? I can't remember what it was, but really got us going on some hilariously racist stuff. It's going to pop in my head. I can't remember what it was. I can't either. But this week, it started disgusting, as racism always does. And it ended up hysterical.

So Matt Rowan. is a high school basketball announcer. He was calling the game down in Oklahoma. Shout out to my boy, Irv Rowland, for putting me on this, when one of the girls' teams began to kneel. The girls' team began to kneel, and this guy did not know he was on a hot mic, and he used racial epitets,

including the big one, the bigahuna, L.N. Wordio, at those girls, and criticized them for kneeling. Now, this was, went viral quick. This weren't viral fashion than COVID, right? This went viral quick. Everybody. As it should.

He has since issued an apology. The thing about the apology is not that he issued an apology, that was definitely coming. The thing about the apology was what he said in the apology. This is the apology. I'm Matt Rowan. It is I, Matt Rowan. on Thursday, March 11, 2021, most regrettably made some statements

that cannot be taken back. During the Norman high school girls basketball game against Midwest City, I made inappropriate and racist comments believing that the microphone was off. However, let me state immediately that there is no excuse for such comments,

and there's no excuse, such comments should never have been uttered. Well, okay, let me, this is, it reads, He's not the greatest writer. Let me state immediately that there is no excuse. There should be a comment there. Such comments should never have been uttered.

I'm a family man. I'm married. I have two children. Didn't ask for your genealogy. I married. I have two children. At one time was a youth pastor. I continue to be a member of a Baptist church.

Right. Once again, none of it matters. I've not only embarrassed and disappointed myself, I have embarrassed and disappointed my family and friends. This is where this apology gets good. Not just good, but amazing. I will state that I suffer type 1 diabetes, serious situation. And during the game, my sugar was spiking.

While not excusing my remarks, it is not unusual in my sugar spikes that I become disoriented and often say things that are not appropriate as well as hurtful. I do not believe that. I would have made such a horrible statement, absent my sugar spike. Now, God rest my mama's soul.

God rest my mama's soul. She had sugar. For a whole life, she'd say, I got sugar. I never heard her lash out in any racial epitets over her diabetes. This man blamed his racism on type 1 diabetes. Yo, we in the, we in the loopy zone, baby. I give it to them for the creativity. I give it to them for me.

No, I don't like it, but I'm just like, wow, that's a new one. I mean, my gosh, if that's what racism is, like, if that's all, if that's what it causes racism, then, you know, like, we could fix it. That's it. This man is the key. Yeah. Listen, when I saw, I saw you post this, I wasn't surprised at all by it, right? And I, and like, like, Van, isn't that the problem?

that we aren't shocked or surprised by this type of behavior. Like, I saw it and I was like, huh, and another one. You know what I mean? Like, it was just like another day. Yeah. Somebody else is just calling us the N-words. Mad is something we're doing, just exercising our right to stand up what we believe in and stand against something.

Black girls, by the way. Black, young. This is a high school game. Women. Young women. Here's the question I have, too. I did two note as well. that he let us know who his family was

or that he's a family man and through in church, which is why people question Christianity all the time when you throw something out like that. Problem. He made the entire statement about himself. At any point, did he apologize to those young girls? Did I miss that in a statement? Let's go look at it again.

I can't believe that I might have missed that. There was no apology to the young women. There was no apology to the black. community. The whole statement was about him and then him giving an excuse for his behavior. Yo, this dude is a G. This dude is a fucking G. Hold on for a second. This guy is such a G. I'll tell you why. Not only did he not apologize, he didn't even take it back. So, wow, wow. Exactly. I underestimated this dude. That's why he threw in all of that stuff about his family. he used his genealogy to throw off the fact

that there isn't an apology anywhere in this. All this guy did was describe what happened, describe his home life, and then tell us about his diabetes. He never apologized. Not one apology. Then talks about it being disdialiening.

I'm a lawyer. I'm a lawyer. Damn. I hate hearing that. I hate hearing that. I'm a lawyer. I hate hearing that. This is amazing.

And he got you. He did. And not even you. Most people probably were like, oh, he put out a statement. Uh-uh. Listen to what he said or read his words. He is not sorry for what he did. Matter of fact, he's excusing it.

And then here's my question. So when your sugar spikes, you're only disoriented for 30 seconds. Did he call the rest of the game? Did he announce the rest of the game? Yes. That's all I need to know. From what I know. That's all I need to know.

I can't be sure about that. You announced the rest of the game. I can't be sure about that though. I'm assuming he did. Because old boy who was with him didn't stop him or correct him or say, hey, don't say that when he said it. Almost as if like this is a normal thing. He says this all the time. Oh, we just got caught saying it.

This man is a sorry excuse for a human being. I hope he gets fired. Yes. I'm canceling him. Just like that. Straight up like that. What about his kids? Because I don't care.

He was a youth pastor. And let me tell you something. Go back. You need to go back to being a youth pastor. You need to turn them pages in that Bible and read some scripture. The last thing you needs to be as a youth pastor. You don't like him. See?

You need to find your way back. You need to find your way back. You're treating this. You don't want Pastor Carl to be a pastor, but you say this man. I didn't say Pastor. I didn't say Pastor. I never said that. I said he shouldn't be leading at that point.

Step aside. Step aside. Listen. I wouldn't, if he had said it, maybe, maybe I'd feel I wouldn't say firing if he had actually been remorseful for what he did, but he's not. He didn't apologize. He said nothing to these young women who he completely, completely trashed. And then he made a sorry excuse for it. Listen, I hope these young women know, I hope that, I feel so bad for them that they were subjected to this.

I hope that they learn from it and they continue to stand up for what they believe in and don't let people like this discourage you. Let this is exactly why you're kneeling. This is exactly why for moments like this. It's very true. Speaking of language, Kurt Franklin. Now this one, this one. This one.

It's very fun. It's very funny. It's terrible. We've talked about Kurt Franklin on the podcast before. It's very funny. It's very scary. So Kurt Franklin's son, carry on Franklin. I like that name.

I love what people are doing. I do too. Yeah, carry on. It's like, hey, carry on. Posted a video of Kurt Franklin cursing him out. I'm not even going to attempt to sum up the video. Here it is. Okay.

So he put that video out. That's Kurt Franklin. That's, I just want to hit not, that, blah, blah, around. You know what I mean? GP, oh, you're with me. Come on. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, you know what I mean?

So that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, uh, that's, uh, that's, uh, that's, uh, that's, uh, that's, uh, that's, uh, that's, uh, and I say boy out. Now, I say boy, use that term loosely because what we didn't know when this, when this came out is that carry on is 33 years old, okay? Um, um, um, Kurt Franklin talked about this. He apologized. Mm-hmm. This sparked a debate online about whether or not,

it is okay to curse at your children in anger. Okay? First of all, what do you think about this Kurt Franklin situation? And then I want to talk to you about the cursing at the children. Okay. Yeah, I want to get to that because I wonder was the debate sparked

because it was Kirk Franklin who was cursing or just period growing people? Because that's my thing. Are people making their opinions based on the fact that it was Kirk Franklin? Because I think that's what it was. He's this, you know, award-winning Christian. Do I call him a singer, singer-rapper, songwriter? Choir leader.

Yeah. And it's the fact that he's, it's the Christian side of it, which is why he got the attention, not because he was necessarily an adult cursing out his grown child. Do you know what got me? You know what the most disturbing part in this recording to me was? It wasn't the cursing. It wasn't the yelling.

It wasn't even the threat on his life. It was the laugh. The laugh. That was the most cruel part. Somebody else that was listening. Yeah, that was the most cruel part on Kirk Franklin's side. The laugh came from his side. I don't know who it was, but it came from Kirk Franklin's side.

So at the moment he calls him, he says, let me tell you about your bitch ass. There is a maniacal laugh in the background. To me, that was more cruel than anything. they were almost as if they were enjoying what was happening. And to me, that just took it to another level for me. I was like, oh my gosh, did I hear that right? Had to go back and look at it.

I just, listen, my thought on this is I'm not even going to look at this from like the fact that he's a Christian in that point of view. It was just like some family business that I didn't need to know. You know what I'm saying? Like it, to me, it was so sad to see that their relationship had come to that point where this father felt the need to talk to his son like that, and the son felt the need to put it out for public consumption. I just thought, my gosh, how broken is this relationship

that now you're letting all of us in on it? That, to me, was so disturbing. Right. This causes civil war. I mean, you're right. I mean, it lets you know how bad things are. Number one, the fact that he felt like he had to record them, that kind of lets you know.

So civil war between people that got cursed out by their parents and people who didn't. I didn't know that was this many of y'all who didn't get cursed out by your parents. I did not get cursed up. You never got cursed up. Are you surprised? I did not get cursed out. The judge did that? How did he reprimand?

Did he just shout Bible lyrics at you? And I shall not. Okay. You know what I mean? No. I'm like, what did he do? No, I mean, I got spankings probably to like a, I got spankings to an age. Maybe I'm embarrassed to admit.

I'll be honest with you. That makes a lot sense because people who parents don't curse, they whip their kids ass way worse. Yeah. Because they're on some medieval shit. Like they, our parents get mad. It's not like I was like. Now he put you in a rack.

They put you in a rack. It was simply a belt. It was simply a belt. Rachel, when you get home, Doth's chains will be around you. Listen, the worst thing was to know it was coming. You already know what's happening. Yeah, I got spanked.

That's how things were handled. Yeah. But my mom, the worst cursing I'd ever got, mom's going to hate this. So in the 12th grade, I dated a girl named Paulette Gray. And her, and me and Paulette got together. She actually had gone to school with me for a bunch of years, but we got together partly because our mothers were friends.

They were realtors, right? And so, you know, me and Paulette's relationship got serious as, she was my first adult relationship, right? We were kids. We were doing what kids do. And so, but Rachel, not Rachel, but Paulette's mother and my mother had a fallen out. Okay. Like, they stopped being friends, but her and I continued to date. They kind of, they, they, her name was Renee. They kind of like went their own separate ways or whatever. Wasn't really acrimonious, but they just weren't. So one day, Paulette's mother calls me over to her house to paint her house

to like paint the kitchen. They help me paint. And so I am in their kitchen with a roller painting the kitchen. Okay? And it was funny because I didn't know how to paint. And then Paulette's stepdad had to come home and fix it everything like that. So anyway, I come home, I shower or whatever, wherever like that. I get into the kitchen and my mother was like, I know.

You didn't have your lazy black ass in that bitch house painting her mother fucking kitchen. And look, I'm sitting there like, what am I supposed to do? My girlfriend's mother asked me to help her. I cannot say no. Nigel, you fucking say no everything I asked you to do. And I realized at that moment that what no cuddly ending to this? she was fucking mad. Like she, there was no,

there was, there was going to be no way I was going to be able to, it was almost like me being on the Bachelor Nation subreddit. There was no way I was going to be able to like charm my way out of this situation. This woman was pissed. She went so hard on me. I must have been like 17. She went so. So you were grown.

So she felt like she could talk to you like that. Yeah. She felt like. And she laid down a set of expectations. And Paulette said, when Paulette had asked me, she's like, hey, can you come with me to get the oil chains on Jeremiah's car? Jeremiah was a brother. And I'm like, fuck no.

I'll never assist in any way. Ever. Don't ask me for shit. Don't break up? No, we dated for all into college. I'm like, if the house was on fire, I won't even call. on one. I'll pretend, like, you can't, don't ask me for shit.

I'm never doing that again. My mom let me have it. So all I'm saying is, I've been there. It wasn't that big of a deal to me. People were acting like, Kurt Franklin was abusive and all of that stuff. The worst thing about it, the worst thing about it was when Kurt Franklin apologized, he put his video apology out. He said something

that's very telling about their relationship. He said, as many of you know, I have an older son. That right there told me that that kid's not part of his family. I gathered that as well. But I feel like I had heard that. And maybe I heard that just being from Dallas, Kirk Franklin in Dallas.

Like maybe that's just talk around town. But to me it makes a difference when you're 33. You're 33. Right? Like who knows what kind of history they have? I'm not excusing it. But the fact that he was talking to a 33-year-old like that, it's almost don't even feel right giving an opinion on it because it's family's business, which means it's not ours. even if he did let the rest of us in on that conversation. Kurt Franklin, I tell you what, Kurt Franklin better be able to fight, though.

Because he was talking some cash money shit. Wasn't he, though? Yeah, he better be able to fight. That's like that Napoleon complex. Yeah, he better be able to fight, man. Jesus's not going to be there with them paws getting put on you, Kurt. All right. He was talking big talk.

Like, you would tell this conversation has happened before. Yeah, like you got the Holy Ghost in his hands. He was talking that. money shit. All right, are you ready? It is Monday, which means it is time for vans,

various, various. It's time for vans, very serious. Question of the week. Are you ready for this, Rachel? I am ready for this one. Okay. Things are rolling out. Stuff is happening. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

It looks like there might be light at the end of the tunnel. for this entire sad fucking era we've been in. The question is, for you, Rachel Lindsay. Okay. When will the pandemic be over for you?

The pandemic will be over for you when you can do what, go where, do whatever. What to you will signal that this is finally over? This is an easy one for me. When the government says

we've reached herd immunity. It's just like that. It's not a good answer. You know what? I've come to... It's not a good answer. No, we've done this a few times. No, we've done this a few times

and every single time my answer is never good enough for you and I'm okay with that. But let me explain why. If I'm going to trust the government with a vaccine and that I should be wearing a mask and that I can't go indoors at places and I'm following all these rules, then I'm going to listen to the government

when I feel like the pandemic is over for me. Because it's not over if I can get a vaccine right now, but I still got to wear my mask. I can't go. travel without having to quarantine at work, it's not over for me. So when is it going to be over? When they tell me it's over. Fine. You don't like it. It's not sexy. It's not cute. It's the truth. It's, look,

here's the thing. First of all, the government isn't making the vaccine. Pharmaceutical companies are. So it's not the government. Okay, but the government bought it and the government is, then why are we? Okay. So can I, can I? Is it not regulated by it? By the government? First of all, can we just, this was supposed to be like a playful. type, hey, when I can go here, when I can do this, I'll finally know that the pandemic is over. Oh, I'm so sorry. I didn't play about the rules.

When the CDC tells us that we've reached herd immunity. My bad for taking the pandemic. My bad for taking the pandemic seriously. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm not accepting that answer. What answer, what will you, what can't you not do now? What can you not do now that?

Travel. That will signal travel. But you already traveled, though. You went to Dallas and you helped. Yeah, but I had to quarantine. Like, I want to be able to go to Mexico for the weekend and come back to work on Monday and it'd be fine. Right now, I have to sit out at least three days. Right.

I take a test. Like, that's me. I can't move around the way that I want to. Okay. That's good. That's better than herd immunity. Go ahead. Your answer better be damn good to while you're over here talking about.

needs to be playful. I'll be honest with you. This is an easy one for me. Okay. The pandemic will be over for me when I care about my lips being ashy again. Boo. That's the true answer.

So you've been coming here with ashy lips, every podcast. They're ashy and they cracked, look at my, look at my mustache right now. That's a Danny Glover. That's a Danny Glover mustache. It's looking a little thicker today than it normally does. Hell yeah. If you look at my mustache right now, that's lethal weapon. That's, I'm telling you that straight up lethal weapon.

It does look like a tanning lover. That's lethal weapon. That's Michelle Obama's prom date mustache. You think I give a fuck. There's nowhere to go. There's nothing to do. I feel no need in any way to make myself look presentable. The moment that I care about looking presentable again, I'll know that this whole thing is over.

Okay. I can't answer that because I have to go into work and be on camera five days out of the week. So, you know, I moisturized my lips. You're moisture. You still got your lips on ashes. It's an amazing thing. All right, guys. That's it. Look, be nice to your kids, man. You never know when your- What do you think you're going to do with your kids? You think you're going to curse them out or no?

See, I think this is a good question. I think that I think that I'll be, I think that I'll curse but not them out. I don't think, I think that I live too much in the head of my 12 year old self to ever feel like I would make a kid feel like I felt at times. Like, you know what I mean? So I don't know though because then there's like frustration.

Yeah. It won't be a regular practice for me, but I feel like, especially if they're older, there might be one moment where I like really need them to know that I'm serious about what I'm saying. I wouldn't put it past me. But I don't plan on it. Right. Yeah. So you're not going to put them,

they're not going to put them in a guillotine and like your parents did to you. Oh, no. I didn't say I wasn't going to spank them. Mentally, well, I'm not, I don't think I'm spanking. Did you not get spankings? What? Okay, because you're talking. I got spankings.

You had to get the switch? The switch was really out. My parents went with the new technology. as far as the Spanckers was concerned. Switch was for grandmas. Like when I had to go to my grandmother's house, it was go get a switch. The thing I,

my great-grandmother used to make me go get the switch, but the thing I realized is that if I took long enough to go get the switch, she will fall asleep. Like, if I took long enough, like, if I took long enough to go get the switch, like, she'll fall asleep.

Why is it called the switch? It's a switch off of a tree. You're about to make it. It's a switch off the tree. I have no clue why it's the switch. I really don't know. We say it all the time. We have no idea where it came from.

When we think about this, this shit is wild. First of all, before we go, what's the worst weapon you ever got? When I was getting real bold, right? I guess I felt like I was trying to be tough. Right. And I reached over and I gave a look back and I grabbed the belt. Like, I grabbed it from my dad's hand. Right.

And he quickly took it out. And, like, the way it happened, the buckle hit me. So it, like, was twice as bad. Not only was my spanking longer, but then I got hit with the buckle at the same time. Like, I got a pure defiance because I was like, I'm not going to cry. Like, I'm too old for this. Right, right. And then I had it.

Or are you, like, 25, 26 at this time? No, probably like 17 or 18. I'm kidding. I'm so kidding. No, yo. No, Rachel, I believe you. I'm sorry. I'm kidding.

Oh my God. Please don't start that rumor. I never got Spankees that that late. Hell no. I never got to that. I swear. Judge Lindsay looks like a senior year ass whipper to me. I never got a bad thing.

I'm telling you. The worst, that's so fucking funny. Hey, Rachel, did you just, Rachel, come over here and let me whip your ass before you go to work. Before you clock in. McDonald's. Before you clock in as much as

tell me about the worst where you got. Before you go, before your shift at 579. Oh, Clare's. Five seven, nine. Yeah, come over here. Let me whip your ass real quick. Worst whooping I ever got is I was in the seventh grade. And my sister had a friend named Lisa.

and I wrote a letter to Lisa and the letter said all of these vile shit and then I mailed the letter. Like vile like. Oh, it was so bad. It was like bitch, ho, blah, blah, blah. You fucking, in my creative way that I could write, I wrote this stuff.

The fact that you wrote it, you really did that. That's even more cruel that you wrote. wrote it out and then went and put it in the mailbox and mailed it. And I never forgot, I put the return address as something that I would never repeat. And then when I went down there, the mail lady was sitting out there in a car, she came out there and she goes, this is not a real address. But she was laughing because of what the address was. She's like, this is not a real psych.

It was like 1800 suck my dick avenue or something like that. And it was like she was laughing. She was laughing. But she sent it. And I sent it. I'm not thinking that mail worked. You guys think I'm making this up. You can call.

I'll get my mother on the phone and she will corroborate this. We don't think you're making it up. I'm not thinking that this worked. I sent it. I sent the thing to to Lisa's house. And one day, I am just in my room. It happens. The mail goes there.

The letter gets there. I have no clue. This is like a week later. Did you sign it the letter? They knew it was me. Okay. Yeah. They knew it was me.

And one day I'm just laying down and my bedroom door flies open. And it is an enraged Van Terry Lathen, Sr. And this nigger lost it. I'm like, number one, Lisa, mother was a lunch lady at our school. Uh-huh. So my parents were saying all kinds of wild shit. Like this woman going to poison you.

You didn't threaten her daughter and all of this stuff like that. Remember now, I'm 11 or 12 years old at this point, right? It's like I'm just fucking around as a kid. He went ham. I remember he hit me and I was writhing around. So he hit me in the face with the belt. And I had a big ass welt on my face. And I remember later on that night,

I was trying to prominently disenfranchise. displayed a wealth to make him feel bad about it. I remember he said with a mouthful of food, he bit a hamburger, right? Because after I got a whip and I always got a treat. So it was like, definitely did that. The best way for me to get the best food in Baton Rouge was to get my ass whipped earlier in the day. Because my dad was, he always felt bad.

So he'd go there, he would whip your ass and then you'd hear Van! And then you come in the room, we got some Pop-I's chicken. And then me and him would make up his life. It's like an I continue relationship very much in that way. He's some flounder. So I remember he goes and he gets some hamburgers from Fast Track. He comes back and I'm eating the hamburger and I'm trying to display my wealth. And he said with a mouthful of food, he was like, you know what?

Keep on. I'm going to whoop your motherfucking ass again. I'm going to whip your ass again. You know, I make me feel bad. You crazy sending that shit to that a lady house. You know what? No more food. Get your ass in the room.

He took my burger away. And can I ask what Lisa did? Nothing. She did nothing. You were crazy. This is no reason. Like, we were all friends. Not that you should have a reason to write somebody messages like that.

No, hold on, hold on for a second, because y'all don't believe me. Hold on. No, Ben. We believe you. You don't believe me. Hold on for a second. Let me get real quick. I know we're going overtime.

I'm sorry about this, Jackson. Jackson. We're over time. I want to make sure that we get this on here. Why she's not going to remember? Hold on for a second. Hold on. I call my sister.

She's going to answer the phone. She's got a, she's a Metro PCS user, so the call might not go through. Hold on for a second. Because you guys don't believe this has happened. Ebonye, how are you doing, sweetie? Okay, so I'm doing well. Thank you.

You're on the higher learning podcast right now. with Rachel Lindsay and Van Lathen. She can hear me. Hi, Ebony. Oh, wow. Rachel. Okay. So look, I just want you to ask, true or false.

Answer, true or false? True or false. Is it true that in, like, 1992, I wrote a letter to your friend Lisa that said all kinds of terrible things in it. Then I mailed the letter. The letter got to Lisa's house. She told people that mom and dad,

daddy came in and wop my ass. You don't remember this? It feels true. It was Lisa. It was definitely Lisa. It was definitely Lisa. Who was it? Who was it?

For sure. I asked Lisa. I'm telling you it was Lisa for sure. Because remember Lisa's mom worked at McKinley Middle? Okay. Who was this? It was Lisa. You were doing a lot of perverted things when you were young.

Okay. Bye. Bye. I love you. Okay. love Ebony. Now we will question all of your stories. We've been taking the best truth. That actually happened, no, seriously. No, she said it, she said it feels true. That was a mess.

That happened. That happened for sure. You know what? She said it happened. She said it happened. It just wasn't to Lisa. It was definitely Lisa. And it could have been Regina, but it was definitely Lisa. But look, you guys, we got to go. Take things caps off, but do not stop learning. You're going to want to see the next, you're going to want to listen to the next higher learning because. Oh, man. Should we tell him now? Should we tell him? Yeah, tell him now. Tell him now.

We have a very special guest. I feel like Thought Warriors promoted this, right? We mentioned it once on the podcast. You guys went to his YouTube page. You liked it. You commented. You gave him some views because somebody else didn't promote him the way we did. We're talking about none other than John the Scorpio.

John the Scorpio. John is Scorpio. John is Scorpio. Yep, yep, we're going to talk to him about what he's been doing, what he thought about this season. Yes, John of Scorpio, we'll have John Scorpio on the same episode that we finally wrap up The Bachelor, it's over. Yes, take on.

So, John and Scorpio will be on there. Thank you, take your thing caps off. You're not stop learning. I'm Van Latelythe. I'm Rachel Lindsay. We out.