Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Fat Joe is Apparently Black, Stephen A. Smith is Upset and Danielle Brooks & Walter Thompson-Hernandez Join the Show

Episode Date: September 11, 2026

Today on Higher Learning, Van and Rachel discuss Fat Joe defending his use of the N-word, Tim Scott’s fiery GOP convention speech, and Stephen A. Smith’s sit-down with Cari Champion and Jemele Hill. Plus, Danielle Brooks and Walter Thompson-Hernández join the show to talk If I Go Will They Miss Me, Hakeem Jeffries faces a racist attack from journalist Rula Jebreal, and a woman goes viral for tracking down the man she says scammed her out of a cruise.(00:00) Welcome to Higher Learning(6:57) Fat Joe defends his use of the N-Word(42:41) Tim Scott speaks at the GOP convention(51:15) Stephen A. Smith stops by Flagrant and Funny(01:02:04) Danielle Brooks & Walter Thompson-Hernandez Join the Show(0122) Hakeem Jeffries called a monkey by Rula Jebreal(01:39:28) Woman Tracks Down Alleged Cruise ScammerHosts: Van Lathan and Rachel LindsayProducers: Marco Escalante and Jade WhaleySocial Producer: Bernard MooreVideo Supervision: Chris Thomas Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey y'all thought warriors What is up? Hollering is on is Ivan Lathan Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lansing. I'm just powered through. You guys like the most unprofessional. Poppin.

What y'all do it over there? Yeah, what y'all, like, fucking up the show? People say we're too hard on y'all. How? What happened to y'all's a spotlight? We're getting it to... After Van talked about the spotlight, y'all haven't had it up since.

We're just going to get it together so it looks really nice, so... Give us a little time. You know what I? We wanted to be professional, look good, all the things. How are we too? Who said that we're too hard on them?

You know, they were, what they said? Where are y'all reading this at? Sometimes people write me, sometimes I see comments, sometimes I'll look at the comments. Yeah, I think the comments on YouTube, but I mean, I don't think so.

What they say? Just talk about it. That's the family. What was said? I think they say that you guys are the greatest auntie and uncle to the Jens of the car. Can y'all just kick that?

Can we be real? I rebut that. Like, come on. Can we just say what it is that they say? What did they say? She doesn't remember verbatim. It was something like we just pick on that. We just pick on that.

We were picking on them. You guys pick on us and we're. It's tough love. It's tough love. It's not tough love at all. I don't really. It's not tough love. It's not tough love.

It's just love. It's just love. My bad, I define all. I don't know, man. That's tough. We're going to get through it. We're going to get through it, but I just, for me, I would just like to know how you guys feel.

Do you guys feel that we're too hard on you guys? Because I'll tell you something. I'm from the 90s. Oh, boy. See, I already knew you was going to go there and act like, you have to be fair. They did not say that. I asked them if they agree, though.

No. Okay. So then if y'all don't agree. Y'all really nice. Then y'all need to tell if y'all don't agree. And by the way, you can't agree. You can always pull me to the side and be like, Van, it's too much. And I'm going to respond and try to be better.

But if y'all, so if y'all agree, didn't disagree. You're good, man. Can I tell you? Please just accept their answer. But I can't, because this is the thing. This is the reason why. Y'all have to understand that when I would be some place as a youngster, and I didn't like something, I would just say it, be it here, TMZ, wherever the fuck it is.

And then you just roll whatever the consequences are. So if y'all like, hey, man, straighten up. Don't treat us like this. We're the Z corner. We need our light and our camera. Just stand on your shit and I'll support you. Like, people will support that more. Everybody, everybody.

That's true. And you are so appreciative, Van. Thank you, Rachel. Rachel, do you think that we set a good example for the younger generation? Absolutely. I think we do. Yeah, how could I say we don't? I think we said a great job.

I feel like y'all, it's because it's a mutual respect type of thing. We don't see it as this respect. What you mean is a mutual respect? Like, we know that you respect us and we respect you because we give out respect. That would be a mutual respect. That would be reciprocity. All right. Getting into the show.

Before we start, can you push the hat just a little forward? I really want to, this is not a dig. This is to help you look your best. It's just sitting a little far back. to be a little up, just a little up, right? I just, this is all I will say. Speaking of reciprocity, I like equality. I'm going to do this, but I'm going to also say that you shouldn't be able to,

you shouldn't be able to criticize and comment on my parents. Because if I did that to you, it would be. No, I need to know if I have something in my teeth. I need to know if I have like a booger in my nose. I need to know, like, remember, remember when you didn't know what the freckles wore and you said something? Like, I need to know these things. That was a notice.

If I'm shiny, I need to know. Your freckles not freckling today. You need to pop the freckles out. Okay. That's not how they would accept it. Okay. Where are all these comments there? I'm used to constructive criticism.

I grew up in that household. Actually, can I tell you something? You take constructive criticism better than almost anyone I've ever known. I grew up with the judge. That is a racial thing. Rachel, you pull Rachel to the side. you try to lean into it, Rachel goes, no, let me have it.

Tell me what's wrong. It's almost like I feed off of it. Like, it's like a love language. I'm like, wait, give me more. Like, how can I be better? Like, truly. That is absolutely very true. That might be trauma.

All right. Speaking of that, I do text Dr. Krausman this morning. I said it's time. Oh, you need to say it's time. It's time to come back. To the motherfucking Kraussman. I haven't seen them in a while. I have other therapy that I've been doing.

Oh, you're cheating on it. No, man. It's like different. type of therapy to untangle different things in my mind, you know, going crazy or whatever, going all over the place. But like, we have a great show today. We have Danielle Brooks and Walter Thompson Hernandez. They're from the movie. If I go, will they miss me? Which is a film that is drawing incredible critical acclaim from all over the place. Rachel saw this movie sometime ago. She's like, we have to have them on the podcast. I saw it. I agree with Rachel. Great

Taste. Great film. It stars Danielle Brooks and Jay Alphonse, who I think is on his rise. Yeah, I'm trying to remember what's the first thing I saw him. Pea Valley. I only watch a little bit of that. He started out Pea Valley. Now he's in the lanterns. See him all over the place. Oh, okay. An actor

of considerable range. Daniel Brooks, an actress of amazing range. Lover in the color purple, lover in, I didn't watch Orange's New Black. That's how I was first introduced to her. But also, for me, Peacemaker. This is a Peacemaker show. DCU show, Peacemaker. Oh, okay, okay. So James Gunn, DCU. It actually started off in the DCEU, which was Zach Snyder's DC universe,

and it was one of the only things that was ported over to the new, along with the Blue Beetle. I'd get into that later. If J. Alphonse had been here, we'd have done a whole DC thing with them because he plays John Stewart, Sr. in Lanterns. Oh, I thought Lanterns was Marvel. Okay. No, Lanterns is D.C. Okay. Lanterns is D.C.

We're covering that on The Midnight Boys. It's going really well. Good. Shout to Vanessa Bade and Kelly, who is the writer of the third episode of Lanterns, which is phenomenal episodes. Shout to everyone over there. A show that's really, really capturing people.

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Learn more at Bloomberg.com. All right, let's get into the show. Let's talk about the motherfucking N-word. Let's go. I know everybody. This is what everybody's talking about. You know, so let's just get into it right now. N-word, Afro-Latina, black,

melly-male, carrying craves for melly-mail. Does that make you black? Let's discuss it. Fat Joe is facing. renewed backlash and sparking an old debate over his use of the N-word after appearing on the Joe Budden podcast. The Puerto Rican and Cuban rapper defended himself by pointing to his upbringing in the Bronx and lifelong immersion in black and hip-hop culture. Let's see what he had to say. You have these people who are now saying you can't say things.

You can't represent hip-hop. Hear me. Hear me out. They're saying that because you don't come from that, that you're not allowed to embrace the culture. and you had a very strong opinion on, yo, this is my culture too. We've also helped build it. Do you feel like... What's the question?

I'm going to get it. Do you feel like there was any point where you were wrong and what you represented being? Are you crazy? This is a no-brainer. Okay. This is a no-brainer. I grew up in hip-hop where they invented hip-hop.

Guys, I don't know if you could have fathom that. I'm from the block that invented hip-hop. Melly Mell, Grandmaster, Flas. The girls who used to babysit me, they invented, let me hear you say, oh, ex-grandmaster Flash. I grew up with Mellie Mell right outside the window playing basketball. Ruby D first, why I gotta keep explaining this to these niggas? I'm there from hip-pie.

My brother was a crate boy. So back in the days, they used to have vinyl. My brother used to carry the crates of vinyl for Grand Master Flash. And when they said all that shit, And they kept doing all this weird shit. It was, I think it was Melly Mel who finally did an interview. It was like, yo, Joey from here. Like, I don't know what you're talking about.

That was that. Niggas ran to the mountain tops after. It was old. And I was here. I don't understand. I was there. And so somebody's like Fat Joe who's so opinionated. And you're going to start fabricating some shit.

You think I'm. I'm not going to defend what I know to be true. You experience. You know, and us in the Bronx, and especially where I grew up in Ho Avenue, you had a little couple more Puerto Ricans than me. Yeah. I grew up in black. That's, I want you to know this, right?

Because I heard when that was going on, you said, yo, Fat Joe ain't black. No, I am black. Fat Joe is the blackest nigger you ever seen in your life. That's, go look it up. Stop! So, first thing to say, is there more to this clip? What happens after? No.

I mean, I know there's not more to the clip, C-T, thank you. There's more podcasts for sure. But I don't think people have showed the response to what happened there. I didn't, yeah, I don't know. So do me a favor. If you can, try to find what happens right after this. I, just in transparency with the audience, I should have watched the entire podcast.

I did not. But try to find what happens right after this. Not necessarily for what Joe or anybody else in the room says when I say Joe, I mean Joe Button, but just for where Fat Joe was going with that. And whether or not he says one thing in there that he said after and has said on other podcasts. Rachel, what's your thoughts? I hate when comments like this are made and everybody in the room just laughs. Because it's clearly problematic. We talked about Fat Joe before on this podcast and his use of the N-word and express the opinions about it. And I don't, nothing, nothing that Fat Joe has ever said to explain or defend why he says it has ever resonated with me or made me change my opinion on it. And the reasons that he gives for why he's black or as this is the first time I've ever heard him say, the blackest nigga that you know, is, shows exactly why you're not black.

I would never define my blackness or equate me being black to just because they're, neighborhood I grew up in, just because my relation to black people that I grew up within the neighborhood, or because I have such a knowledge and a lived experience of hip hop. That makes you connected to the culture. That makes you connected to hip hop. Those things might define you, but that doesn't mean that you are black. And that is somebody who's not black, would say that. Somebody who's not black would go this hard in defending their use of the word or how they represent themselves. Blackness is a lived experience. To be black is to walk in this country, this world as a black person. You don't walk around saying like because by his reasoning,

then anybody can be black, right? If an Asian person, a white person could grow up in the Bronx, live in a majority black neighborhood, grew up in a hip hop area where hip hop was invented, and that now makes them black. That's not okay. And I really wish, and if there's more to the clip, I guess we'll play it if somebody back that up. But the way that Fat Joe goes about this,

and to say you're the black, where we are in this country right now and what is happening to black people, and you're going to sit in a room full of black men and say that I'm the blackest nigger you know because I know hip-hop. is so disrespectful. I'm the blackest nigger you know

because I grew up in the Bronx at a time when culture was being defined is beyond disrespectful. That is not what being black is. And it lets me know that he doesn't have an understanding or a feeling or a knowledge of what it is to be black. And I don't know if he is... I mean, there are people who check him obviously.

Like Mark Lamont Hill has talked about... He said, I mean, very recently, he responded to this very clip. He said, I'm not, FAT Joe is not racist, but FAT Joe is not black. And that is true. And there's a pattern of this. In 2019, Fadjo said the Latin Caribbean and are black, and that Latinos are sometimes closer to Africa than black Americans.

And 2021 in a BET interview, he defended his use of the N-word by saying critics were looking at it with racist eyes. Well, most of the critics are black. So we're racist now to you? In 2024, he called FBI advocates racist. He's been dismissive of black Americans when they try to explain to him how they feel offended, how this feels disrespectful. And it's like it's one thing if he's really trying to argue it because he feels this connection. But when you go on a podcast, a black podcast and say, I'm the blackest nigger you know, you're now placing yourself above black people.

I'm more black than all of y'all. And let me tell you why. That is not okay. And I am so sick of Fat Joe making the rounds of trying to convince us of how black he is because of his relation to black culture. All right. So a couple of things. Let's let's broaden the conversation here a little bit. Like, I have to be honest with you.

When this first happened, it was difficult for me to care. And the reason why it's difficult for me to care is because at the end of the day, this is some fucking nonsense. It is. It's, don't get me wrong. It pissed me off. Just the visual, the image of it, the thought of it, the feel of it pissed me off. But it's another thing to talk about that at the end of the day, if we don't kind of attempt to have a conversation about what it is that we're really talking about,

then we're just kind of like spitting our wills. So I'll say it like this. Fadjo says that he's black. He says that he can use the N-word because he's black, but he also says that he can use the N-word because of the environment that he grew up in. He also says that his father is... He just said that.

Well, he had said it before. He had said it before. Why would he not say it in that moment? That's another reason why I want somebody to kind of look at it up. Okay. Because the reality is this, if your father is black, Fat Joe's father has passed away. So I'm very sensitive about what it means to talk about somebody's dad who's no longer here.

Obviously, that's something that I deal with every single day. Still having dreams about it. But if you are in fact, black, if you are born, black, if your father is black, if your people are black, you would think that that would be the first thing that you would say when someone would say, why aren't you black? You'd say, hey, just let you know my father is black. like people are black. So I come from the lineage of that,

and that is what I am, this is when I'm born to. Let me ask you guys a question. What is black to you guys? I've answered that before. No, no, no, no. But like just, again, like what is black? I mean, outside of being it, well, okay,

races I know as a social construct and all that, I've talked about being black. It's a feeling. It's a connection. It's a lived experience. It's something that I am reminded of that I am. It's something that I'm proud to be a part of because of what, yes, obviously there's culture in that. But it's a history, especially in this country, to be a black American means something.

It is, I am impacted by my blackness in every walk of life because of the systems that exist that were meant for us not to thrive within. So, like, it's so many things to me. It's beautiful. It's culture. It's connection. It's identity. It's lived. It's a lot of things.

I would never describe it as a genre of music. I would never describe it because I'm from O'Cliff. I'm proud of the same way that you're proud of Gardier, I am so proud to say I'm from Oak Cliff, Texas. That is a black neighborhood. That's a historical neighborhood. It means a lot, not just in Dallas, but in Texas. music, in culture, in so many things.

And I've never said, I'm so black because I'm from O'Cliff, ever. Because that's not what defines blackness to me. Right. Well said. For me, blackness is an ancestral and cultural connection to a solidarity movement in resistance to white supremacy. That ancestral connection comes from the designation of being ancestrally African. That cultural connection comes from the cultural connection comes from the cultural

technology invented by those people connected to that lineage to resist white supremacy. That's what being black is. And even black people who would quibble with that definition, who would say, hey, I'm outside of that. Hey, I don't have any problem with white supremacy, right of supremacy isn't a real thing. Those people would still deal with that. They still deal with them being categorized as black. They still deal with the consequence of of what that designation has meant over hundreds of years to black people. So there's a cultural component to what it means to stand in solidarity and safety with people with an oppressive force outside of you.

Then there's our lineage and our connected history to Africa. But then there is something else. there's just what we do as black people there's our self definitive futurist view of ourselves and who we are that is why this conversation comes into play because we cannot allow anyone else to define who we are and anytime you let someone enter into your culture by force that is what you are doing you are letting someone say, because I do this, because I do that, because I do this, because I do that, I am one of you. Right? Why does that happen to black people? There's a couple of reasons why. One is one that we've talked about on this podcast a great deal, which is that a lot of times we exchange our

culture for our humanity. So particularly here in America, hip hop is at the forefront of this. Hip hop is a way that black culture is sold to people and they participate in it. And because they are participatory in hip hop, they feel like they bought a little bit of it. And because they bought a little bit of it, the dances are theirs, the lingo is theirs, the streets and the places are theirs, the people are there.

I love this stuff more than you do. Like the reason why there's sometimes criminalization that's connected to black culture, hey, like you black, but you ain't never done no time. you ain't never put no work in. Shit, I'm doing this shit more than you. I'm black than you. That's because there's been a packaging of blackness

that's so connected to one specific part of that music, of that culture, and people say, well, that's what it means to be black. Like, that's the thing. So over a long enough timeline, the cross between hip-hop culture and black culture, hip-hop culture, which is an expression of black culture, and not an encapsulation of black culture,

culture that starts to become confusing then it starts to become purposefully confused intentionally confused the thing that bothers me the most about this while I'm trying to keep a real cap of my emotions is that you just can't do this with anybody else yeah that's because those other groups their cultures are seen as something that is self-determinative that they in fact built from the ground up architected and people don't look at our culture like that people don't look at our culture as something that we painstankly put together for our safety and enrichment they look at it as something that they can mine they look at it as something that they can harvest and because of that they don't respect our boundaries now even the conversation

about the N-word or whether or not we should be using it that's a conversation that's very real that we could have inside of black communities. I'm sure that if I spoke to your father, your father would say probably have all kinds of reasons why he didn't think that we should be using the N-Word. He doesn't use the N-word. He doesn't agree with using the N-word. My father used it all the time, right?

Watching those guys sit down and talk would have been very entertaining about how they looked at that. First person that ever called me the N-world was my grandfather, right? But my grandfather said it. I'm doing something. I look at that little nigger go, right? So I've never heard the world like anybody else

would have heard the word before. I have no problem with that conversation. But we should know that a group of people taking a word and repurposing it is not something that is unique to black people. The term Chicano was a slur. The term queer was a slur. The F word and the way that the gay brothers that I've heard use it. Yeah, they use it. The way that they use it.

Like that, a group of people doing that thing is not unique. that happens. There are more examples of that. Chicano and queer are different in that those terms were allowed to escape cultural containment. So you can call a queer person queer,

you can call a Chicano person, Chicano, and it's not a slur. The N-word is more like the F-word insofar as the word is accepted to some degree inside of the group, but outside of the group, its usefulness is litigated.

My point is that in that conversation, there is nothing particularly embarrassing about the fact that we've repurposed the word. That happens. That's a thing. There's nothing particularly or inherently corrosive about black people taking a word and repurposing it. I just tell you something else.

We've repurposed everything else. Like the N-word is not the only thing that we were given that we tried to find a way to love. We tried to find a way to love the religion that we were given. We tried to find a way to love the economic system that we were given. We've tried to find a way to love the fucking country that we've been given. That's survival. So there is nothing unique about a group of people trying to find a way to love something that's grotesque.

There's nothing unique about it. And there's nothing embarrassing about it or nothing that lacks. So I'm saying all of those things, or red herons in this argument. I'll stop being so hyper-forbose right after I say this. What I'll say is what we're talking about right here is whether or not someone that, whether or not someone can claim our culture,

and we accept that, and we accept not only the claiming of that, but the staking of a flag and saying, no one is going to be able to say this or have a conversation about it because we either like their music or they come from where they come from. Oh, okay.

You're done. For now. For now. Circling back to you saying, you did this piss you off, but you really didn't care about it because, yeah, like there's so many bigger things going on and all of that, I understand it.

And it's a conversation we've had before, and we will probably have again because he feels entitled to not just say it, but to think it and hasn't been made uncomfortable enough, in my opinion, to where he's ever backtracked, softened his stance. If anything, he seems to becoming more emboldened. Because, again, blackest nigga you know, wow, it's crazy. But something that you said is why I think it is so important to address

and why I'm glad we're talking about it on this podcast. It's the audacity that Fat Joe has to not just thinking, it, not just say it, but to sit in a room full of black men on a black podcast and then repeat it in front of them and feel like it's okay to do that. And it kind of was because he just kept it moving. Like it's just a regular day. And what you said was, which is why I am like, I will call it out every single time because I never want to soften on this stance and I never want to invite other people to feel like they can use his reasoning and this three-point test or whatever he has to now define themselves as black as we continue to see people come in to hip hop the music

the fashion um whatever it is that is a part of black culture there has to be people who are like this is why you can't do that and it doesn't make you one of us and this is why and when you talked about the mining of it, it makes me immediately think of black people are used to taking things from black people and it is deemed okay. What Fat Joe is pretty much doing is trying to colonize it in a sense. He is saying, I am allowed to do this and this is why. And it's a taking of something that is a part of black culture. And he feels like he's entitled to do. It's colonizing it. It is. It fits right into it. So I called a bunch of guys from New York that I know.

I did, because you know what I also don't do? I also don't like litigate cultural truces. I tell you why. Yes. So I called a bunch of guys from New York that I know. Uh-huh. And I got a bunch of different answers as to whether or not guys from New York allow Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, and all of this, that are not black, that are not Afro-Lexecan,

Latino, Afro-Latino, to use the N-word, right? Because if you come to Baton Rouge, you're going to see people flying Confederate flags. Every time you see a white boy flying a Confederate flag, we do not stop him, beat him up, ask him, like, we don't do that. You are in the South, you are going to see some Confederate flags. I remember the video with the lady and the guy came up to her house and he had the big Confederate flag behind his car or whatever. He was going to do some work on her house. And And she goes, you can't do the work on my house. He's got the care of a flag. And then the husband comes out and the husband goes, yeah, she's not going for it.

You're going to go ahead. You're going to have to leave, right? The husband was very nice about it. They were very nice about it, but they were like, hey, we don't want your business. We don't want you to do work on the house. You got the Confederate flag, right? That is the way that cultural truth is litigated, right? If you see a white boy, he got a Confederate flag on, you know what's up.

Now, there are other places in the country where you might walk through there with a Confederate flag. like New York might be one of them while you might walk through somebody with a Confederate flag they see that and they go crazy right they do what they feel like they need to do. Or it doesn't mean the same thing to you. Well, it not meaning the same thing. I would assume I'm not operating on that operating system.

I'm operating with the operating system that we understand that. What I'm saying is that cultural truth sometimes when people would visit Louisiana, they would look at us and they would be like how in the world could y'all just see that and not say anything. And I'd be like, we see that all the time.

If you're going back and forth every time you see a rebel flag, you're going back and forth all the time. That doesn't mean that you don't, like, stand up to the rebel flag. There were times that, like, LSU games had to get the rebel flag out to LSU games and the crowd. There were other times in shared spaces and stuff like that, or government spaces or in schools or in stuff like that. We don't want to see that.

So I don't litigate people's cultural truths, like cultural truces. If you're up in New York, wherever the fuck you're at, because it exists sometimes here, and you're going to let somebody call you a nigger to your face, and you're not going to say nothing, I'm not about to go back and forth with how black you are or what I don't give a fuck. That's on you.

They're not going to say it to me. But if that's what y'all do, then that's what y'all do. But it's important for y'all to know that that's not what we do. Right. Like, that's not what we do. and that distinction is important. The distinction is important if only to say that there are certain things that we can decide as a culture that we make the rules on. And guess what?

They do not have to fucking make sense to you. That has never, ever, ever, in any culture been the standard by which that culture, been the standard by which that culture, operates with, meaning inside of the culture, we make a rule, and that rule has to be consistent or make sense for people outside of the culture to deal with it. It doesn't. There's too many things that don't make any sense. Some would say it doesn't make any sense to turn your lights off and don't use any technology for the entire weekend.

Some would say that it doesn't make any sense too fast for an entire month. Some would say all of these things are cultural or religious things, right? They don't have to make sense to anybody else. But inside of their cultures, for whatever reason, there are rules that they hold sacred. So respecting those cultures is respecting those rules. And it doesn't matter what you think of them. You don't get to decide that. You don't get to make that determination.

Yeah. So it doesn't matter whether or not anybody outside a group of people who are black think that the N-word makes sense or saying the N-word makes sense. That is a conversation for us. And we should have that conversation when we want to have it. Not because Fat Joe has spurned a conversation about us having it inward. I'll go back to something else. Don Imis. Years ago, Don Amos called these college basketball players.

Rutgers college basketball players, nappy-headed hose. Them are some nappy-headed hose. All right. He comes out and he said they're some nappy-headed hose, right? So we get mad because he called a specific group of women nappy-headed holes. We get pissed off. You can't do that. Don Imus is, I hear this in hip-hop all the time.

Now we have a respectability conversation about hip-hop music and not about the fact that he called them nappy-headed holes. Because before we are allowed to say that we don't like something, us ourselves, we must be pristine. We must be beyond reproach. We must be like everything has to make sense. Our humanity and has to be rooted in some sort of respectability because we're the undesirable of this kind of this motherfucking country

in this world and this culture. None of that makes any sense. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. We don't like that you called them that. Like we don't like that you called them that. We don't like the way this goes. We get to make some rules.

And those rules don't have to make sense outside this culture. We can talk about how they make sense for us. but another response to this has kind of been to relitigate this and have a conversation we don't owe that to fat joe oh what to fat joe like we don't owe a conversation about the usage of the n-word to fat joe like we don't owe that like we don't owe that we don't owe that we don't owe that to fat joe nobody owes fat joe the distinct honor of having a cultural come to Jesus moment because he won't listen to what we're trying

to tell him. Right. Not a come to Jesus moment, but definitely like, you don't get to do that. No, I'm saying straight up what I mean. What I'm saying is he, like in this situation, if people are cool with Fadjo saying the N word, go with God. I don't care. I'm not

going through that. Like, if you're cool with Fadjo Joe saying the N word, Mazel Tov. I do not care. I do not care. But we don't, you getting browbeat by people who are going, hey, like, what do y'all? No, the reality is this. It doesn't have to make sense. None of this makes sense. It doesn't fucking make sense.

Our diet doesn't make sense. Nothing about the black American experience in America makes sense. It wasn't planted and grown. The only thing that makes sense is that we're still here and we're thriving. but the food we eat doesn't make sense. The places we live don't make sense. None of this makes sense in terms of the way you would nurture and grow people. The only thing that makes sense to me is the love, culture, and humanity that has sustained us walking through this brutal and vicious wilderness. That makes sense. So I'm not about to look at a group of people and say, hey, sometimes you do some things that are.

Sometimes this, sometimes that. I'm not about to ask them to. pull their fucking pants up so that somebody else can respect them. Oh, okay. Yeah. I think, and this is the last thing I'll say on this, it's a culture versus community thing. And where you were going towards the end of it,

to me speaks to community. And that's a word that I left out when you're saying, what is it to you to be black? Culture can be defined in so many different ways, right? Thadjo coming to the South and being like, I'm the blackest nigga you know, is like, is not. going to be understood. And that is because of Southern is a different experience, different lived

experience, the culture is different there, different shared beliefs, common experiences, all of that location, all of that. You use the example of the Confederate flag. I just want to separate the two and why what he says, and I will call it out every time, is such a misunderstanding of what blackness is and to me shows why you're not. You're talking about culture. When we talk about our blackness, there's a community there. There is a shared goal. There's a shared interest because of what we've been through,

whether it be in the world, whether it be in this country, whether it be where we're from. There is something that we fight for and against because of our lived experience, and we come together to fight against or for that. That is community. that is void of what Fat Joe is talking about and that's what's so important.

And to me, it just comes down to that. It's really as simple as that. You want to make a cultural argument? Fine. We're making a community argument and we're telling you why you making that comment doesn't fit within the black community.

And that's just where I'll leave it. I mean, a couple of things. Number one, man, is like, you know, being black is also, in my opinion, There's other shit that goes along with this. Fadjo is a very notable, powerful guy inside of what he's done. There have been tremendous, there's been tremendous angst

and tremendous problems in a black community. And you just wonder, and I don't know, how much Fad Joe has delved into that. Right? So there's also another part of people that try to attach to black people culturally that they're black enough to come to the party, but not black enough to come to the march. Right. Rhythm and blues. Of course.

And so like for that, there's a question about whether or not people are even in lock step with us and what it means. to actually promote and underscore and be a part of just the life-affirming journey of black people in this country. But beyond that, the reason why I talk about so much of this stuff is because there's never going to be a situation. This is a trick bag is starting to feel like. There's every single time black people decide that they've drawn a line. we have to have a conversation not about the people but of the line if you do a boycott

it's like oh my God why you boycotting this and not that we boycotting right we boycotting that's what we're doing and the part of us that's not boycott just don't do it not everybody has to do it but we boycotting we're boycotting it we're doing it we're doing the boycott

fuck it we're not we don't give a fuck we're doing the boycott it Is the boycott, like, entirely consistent? Maybe not, to you. Cool, don't do it. Why you hate it? The inward thing, we said no. We said no.

Well, nobody should be saying it. Who cares? We could talk about that over dinner. We're of the same thing. I get what you're saying. I get where you're coming from. I get it. We draw a line.

Why does every single fucking thing, every single decision, every single cultural edict have to come back to whether or not It's pure enough, right enough, or base in the right thing. It's a trick back. Yo, as stupid as it fucking sounds, as stupid as it sounds, the inward thing is a cultural decision and a boundary.

It doesn't mean everything, but it doesn't mean nothing. So it's at least worth the conversation. As far as everything else, like, you know, I talked to all of my New York guys and some of New York guys I talked to one guy and this is something I never thought that I would hear anybody say. He said that he heard the word nigger before he knew it was wrong. He heard the word. Was he black? Black.

Yeah. He said he heard the word nigger and he said that him and his Puerto Rican friends and everybody and stuff like that, they would say the word nigger. And then roots came out and they realized that nigger was a slur for black people. that is a understanding and an upbringing that I have absolutely no connection to. Great. Like it's like I was like, whoa.

I was like, bro, with as much head in the fucking book shit as I've done, you legitimately just said something into my ears that I have never heard before. As a black person that I've never heard before. Like, I'd never heard that. So, I mean, you know, if that's what you want, That's what you're on. But, like, Fat Joe's blackness, him with his father, all of that stuff is one thing.

I would implore people to just understand that we have the right. We have the right. And every conversation can be had, but we have the right to say no, man. Correct. And we don't have to make it make sense to nobody else. Correct. If it makes sense to us, that's good enough. I see plenty of cultural stuff.

If you're black, just say you black. I can say it because I'm black. You black? Who else is black? Who is black? Who's on the cusp? No, we don't do that. I'm not doing that.

We're not doing cuss black. I want to do, I want to do. Wait, why? That is anti-everything. Who's on the cusp? No, I'm not doing that. I don't believe in that. So look, so if there's black and there's not black, then the question is, is there

kind of black? No. You're okay, Fat Joe? No, that's not what he's saying. That's not what he said. See, if he would have said, if he would have said, I'm kind of black. He thinks that there's a point test. Well, he would be like, how much, what do you know about hip hop?

How much hip hop do you know? Is there a such thing as kind of black? Where are you from? How many black people grew up in your neighborhood? If you out there right now. Because I grew up in O'Clyford with the first Baptist Academy. If you're out there right now. Everybody has different experience. And you feel like you're kind of black.

Hit us up. Oh my God. We'll put you on the podcast. I definitely don't want to do this. What? Kind of black. KBs. So you're expecting like white people, Asian people.

Latino people to be. Because if, so I'm expensive I want to know what the KB's at. And we're going to start calling out the KBs. I want to know where the KB's at. Okay. Is Tim Scott kind of black? Play the clip.

Play the clip. Play the clip. Play the clip. Let's talk about it. Let's talk about it. Play the clip. He believes special wolf pronouns. But Texas, we know who God is.

We're talking about Jesus. I said the king of kings and the Lord of Lords Alpha and the Omega The beginning and the end That's our God That's America We love our God God

God God I want to say he's not one of us He is But he is I know, of course he is And I actually think it's important to say that Because we need to keep telling him You're black

Because black also doesn't happen You're black. Black also doesn't have anything to do with politics. No, it doesn't. I said I want to. I'm not, I would never, he's black. How many times you think he practiced that in the mirror? Because you know he did. You know he stood in front of that mirror. He put, he, he, he Googled Southern Baptist preachers and he started, because he didn't even say Jesus right like they do. Jesus. Everything said it. He was, Jesus. That is not how it goes to the south. But I know he practiced it.

Right. moving his coat back, pointing in the air, the inflections in his voice, and he still got it wrong. So this is at the Trump of Palooza where Tim Scott was at that bitch going crazy. Because they have to. That's their mascot. They have to. I mean, yeah, he's going crazy up there, Trump and Palozo in the whole situation.

I think they could actually do better. With what? Tim Scott? I think that they're probably actual black Baptist preachers that if they want to do the whole, they want to do that whole thing they can do better. That can't be the best thing they had MLK the, remember the MOK guy at

the inauguration. Remember him and his prayer? They got to do better than this because that wasn't very good. Look, here's the deal. This is why I actually appreciate the Trump and Paloza thing because that is like nobody that is a party only for them.

That is only for them. They don't give a fuck. Obviously anybody else. That looks like a scene from the righteous gemstones. A hundred percent. No serious person is going to look at that and think, wow,

I'm fucking with these guys. But I'll tell you this, though, and I want people to be wary of this. There was a different conversation that was had. I want you out to know. Everybody is not you. Somebody was on

my phone calling me, telling me about political ads that they had saw and they were like, did you know that he wants to do this? And I'm on the phone. I'm like, dog. Political ads about what? Can you, like? I don't want to out this person, but political ads about

candidates and things that they heard that candidates wanted to do. Republican or Democrats? Democratic candidates. Okay. And the stuff was and I'm on the phone, he's like, I don't know, man. If he for that, I just might not vote. I'm like, bro, what the these ads and this propaganda, this works on people. Like this

So it was an anti-democrat ad. I'm confused. I need to be specific. What was the issue? That won't give away who you're talking to. I'm trying to understand so I can talk to you properly. Be specific. Yeah, nigga, be the blackest nigga, you know. Be specific. How? How? How, how, nigga? What makes you so black? Why? Why? Because you can't.

That's what they should have. Mely male flash? Because you black? We're going to keep coming back to this. You black? What makes you the blackest niggins? You know. You sound stupid.

What's like you? Brow's like you, why? What is going on? Bro, I'm going to start, you know, fuck that. I'm going to start doing that shit. Fuck it. I'm going to start doing that shit, bro. I'm just going to start doing that shit.

I want people to make T-shirts or something. I think I'm going to post that on my social media. I'm the blackest nigga you know. Fat Joe. That's a tough man. That's a tough man. That's a tough. This is, this is.

This is me, bro, what y'all are witnessing right now is me at my fucking most, my heart is full. I'm trying to be, I'm at my heart is full. I can't, only us. We got to have to talk about hip hop too, man. I'll tell you, this is the thing about hip hop. Hip hop is pretty all-encompassing. It's for everyone. But we need a couple rappers to drop right now and reestablish the blackness of hip-hop.

we need a couple of guys out there right now I know everybody want to get money and everybody want to sell all the records and all of that stuff like that I get that right now I'm signed to Spotify I get it I'm signed to Spotify but we need people that sign that's going crazy like Montaleo

we need more of that type of energy because in the 90s where I come from I come from the 90s the era it was a lot of black you know it was very much so was But there was hip hop for all of us. But then there was also hip hop that was just like, this is black, these are the teachings, this is what we're doing, black.

Remember when we, there was an era when you were really like, I'm going to be a rapper, like you don't even really know. Like I got bars, all of this. And it never really came to fruition. This is what I would challenge you. When Jay-Z had the song, I'm not black, I'm OJ, you should do a, I'm black, I'm Fat Joe. And then the whole thing should just be about.

Jay? How he's not. That's what I want. I'm black. I'm fat Joe. Look, man. Do it. I'm saying, or Jade. Jay could do it. But no, so what I'm saying is going back to the thing, you know. Go back to the political ad. Political ad. So I'm talking to somebody and they're essentially telling me. What's the ad?

The ad is about James Salarico. Okay. And is it for? Okay, yeah. Okay. Because you said it was a Democrat ad. And then that was like, as you were talking, I'm like, it's an anti-democrat. Right. Okay, thank you. It's an anti-democratic ad, and this person has asked me about things that are in this ad, and maybe it's because I'm so knee-deep into political talk and stuff like that, I can see and smell it.

Or maybe I'm too far left right now to actually be represented in my own community. Maybe my belief system is too far out of whack, and I'm out of step. maybe I'm out of community with what the average black political thinker thinks. That's very, very, very possible. But a lot of this stuff he was believing and just reminded me that while we are so sure that people look at that and they go, oh my God, that looks crazy. It might have been some people that caught the Holy Ghost like crazy when they saw gums up there doing this thing. Not gums.

Yeah, I mean, the people in the audience for sure did. Yeah. I don't know if black people saw that and felt like that because black people know that that's not. That's not how it goes. We should talk about the, like, anti-blackness doesn't mean, so I believe Tim Scott has worked against the progress of black people. Absolutely. Right.

So the reason why the all-skinned folk, kinfolk, and Kenfo thing, Angela Rye, is so important because they are still Kenfolk. These are black people. Yeah. But that right there was nuts. You liked it. It was in Dallas. I laughed.

Oh, they're showing out in Dallas right now. It was in Dallas. It was in Dallas. Wow. I mean, it's not shocking. I mean, yeah, so Dallas is, yeah, so you're fully, that's amazing for you guys. That's great. All right, you get this one.

I'm saying. You get this one. It's tough because, like, you can say a lot of things, but we haven't, they're not doing that in New Orleans. Never happening that. Yeah, that's never happening in New Orleans. But there are plenty of other cities in Louisiana where it could. No, because we don't have the infrastructure. They're not, they're not taking that bitch to, like, West,

Monroe. Like, they can't support that shit. They're definitely not taking it to Ms. Monroe. They can't support it. We don't have the infrastructure. All right, what else we got? Oh, speaking of, hey, I want to know what you think about this one. I don't like when topics start off like this. I love this one. So, yo,

while we were gone, there was a conversation between Kerry Champion, Jamel Hill, and Stephen A. Smith that happened on their podcast, Flavit, and Funny. That conversation was in two parts. Did you watch it? Mm-hmm.

Watch it as well. I actually thought it was pretty good conversation. Everybody had takes, and now it seems like, Carrie, Jamel, and Stephen A. Are at longerheads even more than what they were before the conversation took place. Yeah. I don't know what I was expecting from it.

And I would be interested in know maybe what they were expecting from it. I think it needed to happen, and I'm glad it happens in a way that we could observe it. So a three-hour conversation. They obviously have a deep history of working together, so a professional and a personal relationship together. But some of it was too inside baseball. And they would bring it back to the conversation where it was like, ah, what I wish, and this would have been really hard to do is because maybe they thought that they could come to an understanding on something. that never really happened. Stephen A. Smith said the same energy, not energy,

but the same stance he had prior to coming in he left with. Same with them. I think maybe I expected that they would hear some of the things that he was saying, in particular how black women feel, how black people feel, not necessarily his beef with athletes and stuff like that, but just like particularly even the Thumbs Down Award and him going straight to Sean Hannity. I thought that he would hear some of that.

And even when I thought, oh, wow, he would be like, that's a good point. He'd go, now let me, now let me, you know, give my rebuttal. And so I don't know how beneficial the conversation was in the sense that we just kind of both heard you say your things to each other. But there was no compromise or coming to some type of middle ground or understanding. There was respect in that conversation. It feels like that kind of fell apart after. There was absolutely a respect and maybe things that each side wanted to get out and say to each other. But I didn't get as a listener what I had hoped for and maybe seeing Stephen A say, I really understand what you're saying.

What were you hoping for? That's what I'm saying. I really, like, because what I wish, and I'll finish this thought because I said it earlier, is that Stephen A has said a lot. Yeah. And it's really hard to remember in particular and verbatim every single thing he said that has felt. that it was against the black community or black women or the issues and policies that are particular for our community. So it would have been great if it's like, well, you said this

and then there could have been a clip. That would have been really hard to do. Like, please say what you meant when you said this. And I'll give the example of the Joy Reid part of the conversation. He was like, I've said all this, these, I don't know Joy Reid. I said all these, this is how I feel about Joy Reid. Her voice is so important to us. It's so meaningful.

We need her on the end. And then they're like, but this is what you said about her. And so you're saying things that don't reflect that sentiment. And they kept saying that to him. We hear you saying this, but when you make these statements, and they're not just clips, they're prolonged on your podcast or whatever, or somebody else's platform, these platforms that are very much so against us, it feels like your sentiment is anti-the-Black community.

So we hear you saying this, but then you don't say this. And it's like he couldn't reconcile. the two. And I think a clip of you said this, explain it, may have helped, but maybe not. Who knows? I don't think he ever came in there wanting to concede on any of his points.

There were no, I don't think there was a desire to make any concessions, but. It'll be relatively quick here. So let me tell you why I think it worked for their pod. It was great for them. No, no, no. I'm not talking about just like from a viewer standpoint. Because

they're talking to somebody that they know. So being that they're talking to somebody that they know, there are a lot of things that Jamel expressly said that she was uninterested in that I am interested in, right? So she was like, I'm not going to have a politics conversation with Stephen Nesman. They did say that. Right. So she's not going to have a politics conversation.

They were like, we're not going there. Right. She's like, we're not about to get into a whole politics conversation with Stephen Nix Smith. Or she said even after that they weren't going to do that. So I think because they know him and they both had a different history with him, that they were most interested in trying to show him to your point, how he was coming off and why people might feel the way that they feel and also clear up some misconceptions between them.

I think the question that a lot of people are asking about Stephen A. Smith is really rooted in what it is that he actually believes. So Stephen A. Smith will say something. He will say, you know, I am socially very liberal, but I'm fiscally conservative. Like, my thing is, okay, what does that mean? Exactly. And so, and the reason why I will want to know specific things is because, you know, what it feels like with Stephen A. Smith sometimes is that there is something inside of him

that is actually very, very conservative and that he can't help but show it. So the question is not, the question sometimes isn't about what he says. It's why he's saying it. On our podcast right now, Joy Reed loses her job. She loses her show. They take Joy Reid off the air. It would never occur to me to get on the air and say something about her ratings. About her ratings. It wouldn't occur to me

to do that because the first thing that would occur to me is community. The first thing that would occur to me is that 300,000 black women are losing their jobs. So the question is

like why would that occur to you? Like why when Jasmine Crockett is going back and forth with the president, the president has already insulted Jasmine Crockett. The whole party is insulting Jasmine Crockett. why reflexively do you take that opportunity

to admonish Jasmine Crockett? I'm not saying that what you said was, in that case, not as good because he did say street verbiage, but I'm not saying that you came out and were specifically derisive to her in a way like you Laura Lumberer. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying it seems like the reflex is sometimes to do things

and I would just wonder like why there? Like what's that? Like why do you need to explain the other stuff? like why did you even need to say that? Who are you doing that for? By the way, he's fine to do that. That's his right to do that, right? But that is what people are looking at.

He's fine to do that. I'll say something else about if I was talking to Stephen A.9, we've talked to him before, if I was talking to Stephen A. now, I want people to go back and listen to one, listen and watch one clip. Stephen A. Smith is on stage with Chris Cuomo and Sean Hannity.

President Trump calls in. Watch what Stephen A does. Stephen A smiles. Gitty. I want you. I'm doing my best. I'm being completely fair here. President Trump calls in.

Stephen A. Smith is on stage. And Stephen A. starts beaming. He's smiling. I think it's a fair question to ask. You name me one person that you know that stands in opposition to the regime of President Trump, to the anti-blackness that exists inside of the MAGA operation,

to any of that stuff, that the sound of the president's voice doesn't make their skin crawl. I'm not saying that people have never laughed at Trump. I'm not saying that people have never said. I'm not saying that any of that stuff. I'm saying one person that they would hear the president talking to them, and that would make them visually perk up

and so if I was talking to them I'm like is there something there? I mean, and it could be, hey, it's the president and I'm happy to hear but even that to me and I'm not saying that they didn't. I thought like I said the conversation was great. Even that would give

an answer there would give deeper insight into how his mind works because if he wouldn't even say the institution of the presidency is still something I have a great deal of respect for and hearing from the president, any president, is going to make me feel like

that that explains why some of this stuff comes off the way that it does. Sure, sure, sure, sure. Because some of this stuff isn't about any of that. So I still was greatly entertained by the conversation. I thought he comported themselves well. I thought they comported themselves well. Yeah, because there's a history there.

I thought, and they're professionals and they're smart and they're talented of what they do, being able to like communicate with each other and then, you know, to an audience. I will say, though, that since then, you know, he's come on and he's like been particular about the things that he was asked. And that bothered me because I'm like, you sat down there like you were an open book. You can ask me anything. We can talk about anything. But then you now go back and you say, well, I don't think we'd be talking about this.

I thought we were talking about A, B, C, and D. Well, like, which one is it? So it almost like, it's like you have this moment, there's this mutual respect, and then you get on there, and then it's like, all right, well, then you, but it's like you just revert it back to the whole thing. He says that they edit some stuff out. Which Jamel said she did not. He also says that they turn the comments off. He wanted the comments to be left on. I guess there was supposed to be some kind of like whatever now he has a rule and the whole deal or whatever, whatever.

But I still got something out of it. But, you know, if you're, I think for me, it's. The next person that's interviewing Stephen A. Smith, it wasn't important for them to do it. Pending him down on what his exact ideology is, like what he exactly believes, would be very, very helpful for people to be able to set an expectation ladder with it. And forcing him to explain it because I think he gets by with just saying, I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal. But I've never heard him fully explain what that means. Like, oh, are you in favor of this policy that then actually hurts people at the same time? So, like, which one is it?

Because it benefits you physically. Okay. All right, cool. All right, cool. All right, cool. All right. Okay, the movie is, if I go, they will miss me. Ooh, let's run that back.

Will they miss me? That's okay, I guess. I'm sorry. Thank you. Actually, leave that in. The movie is actually, if I go, will they miss me? Because if I go, they definitely go miss me. You know what I'm saying?

Because I'm that nigga. Okay. It is not about you. Yeah. We have. It's a star. and the director of that film. Join us today on Higher Learning.

The director is Walter Thompson Hernandez. The star is The Incomparable. Daniel Brooks. Thank you for joining us on Higher Learning today, guys. I'm glad to be here. All right, first question. I saw the movie. I was emotionally wrecked,

but also inspired and felt a palpable sense of love and connection to the characters. Can you guys both explain your feelings about the film in that regard why the project grabbed you and what you hope for people to get walking out of the theater. Oh, I don't know, should I start?

Yeah, go for. First of all, thanks for watching both of you getting to see this film. This is a very special film. I think this is one of those films that any time that you go and watch it, you're going to find something new about yourself, about the world.

It's just so smartly made, thanks to Walter. How it made me feel emotional, to be honest, like it's something that hit my gut in a very visceral way because at the end of the day, I'm a mother and a wife and a daughter, and relationships with family can be very complicated. And so, yeah, playing this woman who is all about protection and wanting to, wanting the best for her babies, you know, I understand what that's like. Actually, I'm going to jump in.

How did he get you? How do you get me? Yeah, that's a big get, you know. Thank you. The Minecraft movie, Peacemaker, Oscar nominations, all of that, smaller film, very, very character-focused, what made you say yes? How did the movie get to you?

It's passion. We sat down at the London Theater, London Hotel, here in L.A., and I was actually doing the press tour for Color Purple, and my team was like, you know, you got to sit with this guy, Walter, he's the next big thing, I'm like, okay. And so I sat down, they sent me the short film that he wrote because this was a short first, and I was into it.

I was like, okay, I like, I think what he's doing? Because especially on a budget, to be able to do and create the way you did, that's a big deal. With no budget. With no budget. So we sat down, we ended up talking for like almost two hours. And I was like, oh, okay, it was his passion for telling this story. It was the fact that when we talked, I knew that he was going to be a collaborator, somebody that was like best idea wins, like, let's find this character together. And that to me was exciting.

And I felt like he was really, when I read the script, coming from a place of truth in a way that on the page is so different from when I'm reading other scripts. I'm like, this truth is not like the BS I'm mostly reading. You know what I mean? Like, you really have to find it even in between the lines, you know? And so it was exciting. It was so exciting.

And I've said this before, but I've said again, it's like most characters that I've played have been very big, bold, loud, You know, we got Sophia, we got, you know, out of bio. But she's, there's a quietness to her. You know, there's a subtlety to her. There's a timidness to her that I was really drawn to. And, you know, especially when you trained, you want to be able to show all of what you can do as an artist.

So I was very glad when he's like, yeah, you're my lozita. I want to speak to something you said about truth. And this is for both of you. You said in an interview that independent films are incredible because I think, I think they reflect the truth of who we are. So with this film, what does this say about your truth, about who you are? That's where you think.

Yeah, I mean, that's such a great question. I think for me, like, the genesis of this movie is so personal, right? Like, I grew up under the LAX flight path, right? So every day, there's like 700, 800, opportunities to look up at an airplane flying AliX, right? What that means is that, like, what are the stories and mythologies that we're creating about these airplanes, right? Like that is literally the only show around.

Like it is the show in the sky. So from my friends and I, right, like I didn't grow up with my dad. A lot of my friends didn't grow up with fathers either, right? But we sort of created like stories and narratives and mythologies about where our dads were. And like where the men in our neighborhood would go for a year, for two years, for five years. They just show up, you know? They would go and they would leave. And sometimes there would be an explanation.

Sometimes there wasn't, right? So it was like mythology and story, stories that we created to make sense of what happened to them, right? And so in this movie, it's like it is a version of that, right? We have a boy whose father has been gone who is using enlisting Greek mythology to understand where he's been and who he is. And like how honest is that, right? Like how imaginative are young boys and girls who make stories and narratives about their parents, right? who in some sense is also putting pressure on a parent, right? Like if you are a parent, I'm not a parent yet,

but if you are a parent and your child is looking at you as Poseidon, right, it's saying so much, right, and it's doing so much. And I think the father in this movie understands that, he understands that pressure and it does something to him. You know, it's almost like this sort of counterintuitive thing where it's like he doesn't love that his son sees him as Poseidon. He should love him. Like, that's the narrative.

Like most fathers want their children to, like, lionize him. heroize them, but this father doesn't. So it's a personal story, right? It makes us think about the ways that we create mythologies to understand the mystery of the world, right? And, you know, questions that don't have answers. So I'm going to pick up

on something real quick. It's interesting that you talked about the mythologies that we make for the men when they leave. What's interesting to me is they make them too. Like when I would ask my Uncle David, rest in peace or my Uncle Mark,

rest in peace, I could do a whole line of rest of pieces. Like, what their lives were like and when they were gone or whatever, they would tell these grandiose stories about I went and lived in Chicago for a couple of years. I lived in New York. I moved out to L.A. and I

knew, what's her name, Nat King Cole's daughter and I hung out with her. That's what my husband would be lying. That's what my Angeloaderie used to say. My husband used to be like, yo, I used to hang out with Natalie Cole and all of that stuff like that. And then your mother would come back and tell you the real story. He was gone.

Of what was going on. And these were amazing, brilliant, beautiful men. But I think a lot of this is, this movie is a struggle between a truth and a wish. And like what that means to wish something and feel something and be confronted with the truth of it. And playing a character that's really trying to navigate that, like trying to give you the actual. of it, but still maintain the vision of this father to this son? What did you draw on? Oh, man.

It's so complicated. I think one of my favorite parts about what Walter's done is he has all of these mirrors in the space, right? And a lot of times you'll see Big Ant play by the wonderful J. L. Fons. I didn't even mention his name. He's phenomenal. He is so great. John Stewart, Sr.

I know, right. He's having a moment. It's perfect time for y'all. It's so cool. Pea Valley, yeah, is what we first met him. Yeah, he's doing so well. But you'll see his character walk by these mirrors all the time. But when he's walking by them and reflecting on himself,

they're in really crucial moments of his life. And I just find that so, just so great, because it's that thing of we have these mirrors and we can look at ourselves, but what do we actually, want to see. Right. You know what I'm saying?

What do we actually want to see? And are we actually seeing the truth? You know, is our mirrors clean? You know what I mean? Are we actually getting in there and cleaning and seeing who we are? And even at the end, you see Lozita, when she's finally made her decision to not be with him, there is a mirror right there reflecting on who she is. So there's so many different takeaways that I have.

with playing Lozita and yeah I hope I'm answering your question what was Juilliard like what was Julia like it was tough let's talk about Julia Ann okay let's talk about Julia band I know a couple of Juliar people who you know Anthony Mackey is a Juilliard I do know that Anthony Mackey you're a Julia I always know me yeah like what was you got in you look you guys up there like going around saying Shakespeare and stuff my man my man talking about like the mythology like the way you're like fantasizing That's true.

My man Bois Joaquin, his parents actually taught at Juilliard. I just know, what is Giuliar like? What does it like to go to some place that everybody feels like? Who wants to go and they know? It's pretty trippy because, you know, I grew up in South Carolina. So for me to go to New York at 17 years old, you know, they only accept 18 students out of the whole world. We're not just talking about the U.S. Wow.

How many? 18. Per year? Yeah, so 0.1% get in. And like, let's talk about marginalization. I was only two, it was only two black girls in my class out of 18. And so it was trippy, man, because they're teaching you how to hold yourself up, walk, talk, you know, that standard American. And there's so many things you're learning about yourself.

But at the same time, I'm just becoming a woman. I'm like, trying to figure out who I am. Yeah. And so it was tough at times when it came to even parts. You know, I was not the chosen lead ever, which is why. At Juilliard ever? At Juilliard, no, I had to fight. I remember writing a letter to one of the teachers there who was like the decision maker of who gets who part. Because you don't audition at Juliet at parts.

Like they just hand them to you. Oh. Yeah, yeah. So that was trippy too when you come out of school and you don't. don't really properly know how to audition. You know, you know how to act, but you don't really know how to audition. And I asked, I was like, we're doing Raising in the Sun and I want to play the lead. Can be pleased because I went down everything that I played from first, second, third, fourth year,

and I had never played a lead. And I told him, I said, how shameful would it be for me to leave this school and have not had that experience? And so I got to play the lead in a Raisin in the Sun. So yeah, it was, it was a... the experience. That fight probably, not probably, I'm sure it did help you when you got into the industry. Yeah. You learned that at a young age too as you were learning yourself and your craft, but like also that you had to fight for yourself and stand up for yourself. I had to have balls at 21 years old to stand up to this white man who's been here forever and say, hey, like,

I don't think you're properly seeing me. Like I'm spending this money here. My parents are spending money to go here and I'm not going to leave with what education I think I deserve. But they did the right thing. You know, they did the right thing. And here we are being the leads in, if I go. I'm just going to say something real quick. This is y'all's next movie. That's about Julia?

Fascinating. I've never considered, you think Miles Davis, all of you guys went there and stuff like that. I've never considered what it must be like for a black girl from the South going. That's okay. That's a real thing. That's a real thing, for sure. There it is, man.

Yeah. Walter for you Going in I mean when I went to a screening And I didn't even know like how deep and heavy it was going to be And I was like deeply affected I'm like you got you need to hurry up and see this And I wasn't even expecting all that

It was just like moved in such a way And I knew it was going to be about fatherhood But what I didn't expect as well Was how you were able to balance out Black women And the strength of Lozita And motherhood and just being a woman, and it's a quiet strength,

but it's also so powerful, like it comes through the screen as well. Can you talk a little bit about that balance? Because it really could have just been one-sided. But I think it rounds out the film in such a beautiful way that you see both sides of that. Yeah, that's such a beautiful observation. I think for me, like it starts with Tony Morrison. You know, Tony Morris is my favorite author of all time.

I think about Sula, right? I think about Sula and Nail's relationship so much. Like Sula and Nell is actually like, that's how I was thinking about Lovita. inner sister, right? Like that sort of beautiful relationship, right? So it starts with that, like I read all of Tony Morrison's books, right? They're a black one of my family, right? Like, you know, it's like Sula, it's beloved, right? It's jazz. It's, you know, all these books that I've just loved and continued to reread. And I think it starts with Tony Morrison for me, right? Like

Song of Solomon is actually a big inspiration for this, for this movie, right? The idea, first chapter of flight, you know, and what that means. But yeah, I mean, I think also, I think we see these tropes, right, about black women in films and in television. And in television. And for me, it's like, those aren't the black women that I grew up with, right? Don't aren't the black women in my family. So it's just like, how do we create complexity on both sides? You know, like, how do we understand Lozita as a fully fleshed out character, as a human who has needs and desires and wants? And which is why, you know, like that bathroom scene in the movie is my favorite scene in the entire movie,

because here we see Lozita outside of the context of motherhood, right? Like still talking about motherhood, but we don't see her man, right? We don't see Big Aunt, we don't see her children. she's just like, you know, smoking her weed on screen with her sister, which is like such a beautiful sort of moment that we know she hasn't had in a while, right? So, I mean, I think it's just, it's just thinking about, like, the honesty that exists in black women's lives and the complexities and how to not do what a lot of people have been doing, right?

And it's kind of that. Can we stay there real quick? Yeah. So there's a conversation that we have in our community, the black community. You're half black. I'm having black. I'm black. You're black.

That's right, man. That's what I'm talking about. about brother. Like, we might need you to solve some problems we have around here. Hey, it's crazy

out here, man. Every time something pops off the air, I mean, it's like, bro, I can't see you out there. I'm not the one. Yeah, you can see you out there. Every time.

So there's a push pool. And the push pool is this. The push pool is accurate representation of black people on screen, Latino people on screen. But the push pool is also positive representation

of this. We've had these conversations. We've had these conversations. We talk about them. we talked about them when one battle after another came out and people were like, I don't know too many black women that would be revolutionary, snitch on the revolutionary group to leave their kids and all of that.

I heard from a lot of sisters that were like, we want to be able to be flawed in these movies. Please. Like we want to be in these movies to be able to be flawed and be real and vacillate from hero to villain and all of that. That seems to have animated you. Hell yeah.

I mean, even bringing up that movie. They kept talking about how Tiana Taylor was overly sexualized. I loved it. I personally, because as an actor, I don't get that opportunity. I would love to have that opportunity. And I just felt like, why can't we be flawed

in that way? You know, why do we have to be so perfect in everything that we do? That's not truthful. That's not honest. You know, people can look at me, say, Danielle, your life is so perfect. If you only knew the stuff,

that I go through, okay? So I want to bring more to that on screen, you know, and you talk about like these positive images of what we put out in storytelling. I think this actually is such a positive, you know what I mean? Like, but some people might not look at it. Like, oh, it's another black man who came out of prison

and he ain't treating his son, right? No, that's a man that's trying to figure out life. And at the end of the movie, you still see him go to the water to his kids. You know, I mean, I just feel like there's such a great conversation that you're bringing up, you know, and we'd love to hear from you, too, Walter. But what we look at as a positive image, I think we need to expand that out further. Yeah. No, no, it's that, you know, and like maybe I think about honesty, right?

I don't think about positive or negative, right? Like, for me, it's about honesty. Does his character feel honest, right? Whichever direction they're going in, right? And the other thing is like, I think we've been hearing a lot about this movie. There's like, you know, so much poetry in the movie. There's like lyricism, right? And I think my slight pushback to that often and maybe kind of gets at what you're saying

is that like we're not creating the poetry and magic in this movie. For me, like poetry and magic already exists in black communities all over the world, right? Like how we need, we have needed magic and poetry to survive. So we're not creating poetry with this movie. We're just acknowledging it. and like pointing a camera towards it, right? And I think that kind of goes back to this idea of like positive or negative. It's not really positive or negative.

It just is what it is. And like in our complications, right? In our like vastness, so many different types of characters can exist. Yes. Is there a point? Because this was my thing. I'm going to be real. So I wrote something like about the movie,

about the other movie we were talking about. But for you guys, is there a point where you feel that hyperfixation on a certain part or a certain portion of our collective experiences can be too much. Because this is the whole huxable thing. The huxable thing is they're black but they're also a doctor and a lawyer.

We love that. And, you know, that wasn't my experience but it was Rachel's. Right. So like, is this something, I guess to be more artful with my question, is this a creative problem or is this an audience problem?

Is this a problem of how the audience wants to be seen or what's coming from the top? I think it's both in a sense. I also think who is it coming from? Okay, where not. Like, is it coming from us or is it somebody behind the curtain that's saying, we need more? Right, right. Like, you know what I mean?

Like, gangsters in the hood. Like, what was it coming from? You know, I think, but I also think it does have to do with audience, you know, feeling ownership, which I think is fair because, it is, you know, images of ourselves that are being put out there. You know, we do have to be careful with what we share. Because at the end of the day, like, if you go to, I don't know, say, Minnesota or something, and there's people that don't look like this particular group,

you know, it's a bunch of white people out there. And this only thing that they're going to see, for example, is, say, a show like Orange is the New Black. You know what I mean? That's the only images that they get of black people. what how are we you know but at the same time it's like not I fault you stuck in a world that's like it's not I fault that you like 18 no whole you right it's right we do a disservice to the audience because I think it's if you're talking about one battle after another and the criticism that you know Tiana Taylor received I felt like sorry some of it was like one looking at her character in just a one dimensional way and I think if you explore it in a deeper way or broaden it then then you can see that it's more than that. And I'd say the same thing about

this. It's not a movie about black men and incarceration. It's so much deeper. This is why I love that the film asks a question. Because I think you're challenging your audience to see it in a bigger way than that. And I think that sometimes that's what needs to happen instead of the audience

telling us what we should do or us trying to soften it a bit so we don't fit into a stereotype. It's like, I want to push you to see beyond that and that it doesn't just look one way. It's bigger than that. It's multi-dimensional. Yeah, you can You know, I think it is that. I think for a lot of us who have grown around black people

or like brown people, right, who are beautiful and flawed and complicated, right? We understand that someone who has been incarcerated can also be beautiful and loving, right? And poetic and exist in like a magical sort of space. And I think that's what this movie is kind of doing. It's like saying, okay, this father happens to be locked up, right? That's not a central point in this story, right?

But also how beautiful is it that his son sees him as Odysseus, right? He's him as like, you know, well, incarceration was, he was in Ithaca, right? Like, there's something fascinating there. But I think also, you know, who's our intended audience, right? Like, that's the real question. It's like, who is the audience that we're trying to speak to, right? Are we speaking to someone in Minnesota? Or are we speaking to our fathers, right?

Or our uncles or our sisters. And I think it kind of matters, like, who the intended audience is. So we have to get you guys out of here, okay? I know. Oh, really? Oh, do we do? We do. We have to get your ass on here.

There's a whole, I know you got so many questions. We want to just talk to you guys and stuff like that. We have to get you guys out of here. No, no, no, you got to get it. I'm going to answer it a little quicker. Because I had nerve questions for you. I had nerve questions for you. And just peacemakers, B.C.U.

And I had Compton Cowboys questions for you. But I'll say, before I get out of here, I just want to ask one last question. The movie is coming out now. it's going to be you guys got a release what would you evangelize to make people leave their homes go to theaters and see the movie because it's a big year for movies in theaters

it's a big year for people going out and having these experiences if you're going to say one thing to the audience to get them to see this film which is incredibly well reviewed 94% on Rotta Manas what would you guys say to make them leave their homes and go see the movie Yeah, I mean, so much, man.

Sell it. Yeah, that's a big question, but I say so much. I think if I'm being real with you, I feel like for me, it's like this movie is about grace, man. Like this movie's about how we extend grace to people who have harmed us, people who love us, people who we love, and people who, you know, have hurt us as well, right? So for me, it's like that is like the fundamental question in this movie. I would love people to feel that and to extend that and to watch this movie through that lens. Thank you.

I would say it's about healing. that's really what I would want for people. Anybody that's kind of been battling whatever you're going through with family, with your children, which is some real stuff with your parents. Whatever it is, man, take a second, take an hour and a half, whatever. I don't know how long the movie you're about a half.

Take an hour and a half. It ain't even two hours, y'all. Take yourself to see this film, put your phone down, and get that healing that, you know, movies have the power to do. And I also low-key want to throw it back on y'all because y'all saw it because I'm always interested in what it made you feel.

You know what I'm saying? Like, how did it make you feel? We could tell you all day, we could sell you all day. But as a viewer, like, what did you leave with? Such a great question. I, or did you want to go? Yeah, I mean, for me, I was just attracted and in lockstep with the people on the screen.

I was a part of their experience. I for some reason identified with this kid. I know you would. Like I identify with this kid, the stories that I made up in my head, the way that I looked at the world, I felt like I was this kid. And I left feeling a lightness and an inspiration of my own to tell stories and stuff like that.

I really, really fought with the movie. I saw you when I watched it. I literally saw you. I like turned to who I was with and I was like, this is Vann. I was like, he's going to resonate with this so much. I'll just say, just to be quick. I love, I would have gone, this puts in a question,

but the community I thought was so special because even if someone goes away, other people are so around, the projects that they were living in, the friend group that they had, even at the end what happens I want you guys to watch it, but it's someone in the community who's there. And takes a village.

Yes, yes. Even with Lozita, like her family that's there, that helps her move things around as she's responding to things that happened in the film, It's so rich. Even like the brotherhood, the calling out of each other when they think someone's doing wrong. I love that scene.

That's my favorite scene. I know. About their feelings. There's so much community within all of it. And it's really, even just a backdrop, L.A., which isn't really a backdrop. It's a character as well. So that's one of the things that's a way from it too.

All right. The movie is, if I go, will they miss me? It is in theaters September 11th. Today. Today. When this comes out. When this comes out, White release September 18th.

By the way, I just got to say this before they go. It's not charity to go see the movie. The movie's fucking good. It's an entertaining fucking film. So you're going to go, I'm not saying, go out and see a very important movie. Right. Go out and see the movie.

The movie's great. You're going to have a good time. Thank you guys. Thanks for me. That's true. All right. So Hakeem Jeffries. I don't like them.

You're not alone. I'm not the biggest Hakeem Jeffries fan. but Hakeem Jeffries is a man and Hakeem Jeffries is a black man. And we're not doing something that got done. And it's impossible not to call it out.

It must be called out. Kim Jeffreys was mentioned, put this down. Yeah. Where did that even come from? Hakeem Jeffries was called a monkey by Rula Gibral. She was criticizing his

support for Israel and his relationship with APEC. And this is what she said. And what does the established Democratic Party? Hakeem Jeffrey by the name. His name is Hakeem. Hakeem in Arabic is an Arabic name, which means healer. He's not a healer. He's a divider.

He is bought and paid by APEC monkey with all the respect. And I don't mean it in a racist way. Girl. He is just basically Aaron. Girl. It's almost like it slipped down. And she was like, oh, wait, I have to say with all due respect and not racist, because you knew it was racist. Okay. So listen, I just got to say something to the left. I have to say something to the left.

Like, I am one of you. I'm one of you. Like, I am with you. I am with you. If you do not respect black people, your political movement will not work. Exactly. Now, here on higher learning, we had the same conversation. regarding Grand Platner. And the fact that Grand Platner had a Nazi tattoo on his body and he was going to talk to

everyone about this, but he didn't talk to anyone black. The reality is the trauma and the experience of being black in this country is something that people with power in this country must have sufficiently

reconciled in order to lead black people. And if we haven't think, if we don't think that you've done that, and we're not fucking with it and this type of shit monkey type of shit this is the type of shit we were talking about Donald Trump

doing not too long ago it's not going to be accepted it doesn't matter what the ideas that come on the back of it are Medicare for all is for human beings it's not for monkeys getting out of wars is for human beings it's not for monkeys

putting money back in people's pocket affordability that's for human beings. It's not for monkeys. If you're on some monkey-type shit doing this type of shit, I'm going to fuck who you are. I'm not fucking with it.

Because I don't believe that you're going to do the things that you say that you're going to do for a person if you call me a monkey. And this feels really bad for me to be defending Hakeem Jeffries because I'm not a Keene Jeffries fan. I don't like them.

But I'm defending the humanity of my people. That's what it is. And that's why it's worth talking about because I was like, I don't want to talk about it. You sold me. You're right. It's not about... I sold you.

No, I didn't sell you, sister. I didn't sell you. Sister, I didn't sell you. You can't be bought or sold. We didn't move past that. I didn't sell nothing. You were a free black woman. You would be the most insufferable HOTEP person.

I was that. I never knew you to be like, Grand Rising Queen. Nah, not really. Because that's all that. I respect them, though. I didn't say you couldn't respect. It's just, it becomes exhausting. Like, you only did a couple of lines,

and I was already like, I'm gonna come in this beach with some Seymoss. Okay, well, which would be great. There's nothing, see moss is great. Hold on, hold on. No, you know what? It's great for your skin. You're getting derailed, so go ahead and do your thing.

I'm gonna be brief. All I was gonna say is, is you're right, it's bigger than that. And if we're having this conversation that we had about Fat Joe and somebody having the audacity or feeling comfortable to say something, when they're supposed to be saying that when they perpetuate that they are about black people,

that they are with and stand in, I won't say stand in line, but definitely support issues and policies that impact us, almost as if we're together, you want us to be on your side. That's a fat show part of it. If we're not going to, if we're going to recognize that Tim Scott, despite him tap dancing in Dallas at the RNC that they were having there, If we're going to say that he is black, I'm not going to allow even you to call him a monkey. That's not right because I don't want anybody to get comfortable in a space of being able to talk about people, black people, and degrade and demean them, no matter how they represent themselves.

We're just not going to have that. And so it's not about Hakeem. It's not you defending him. It's you defending, as you said, black people as a whole. And that is unacceptable. And we're not going to take that. And I'm with you on that. It is, in my opinion, devastating that to someone's campaign and their mission and what it is they're trying to put out there,

when you so comfortably call a black person a monkey. And immediately recognized that it was racist. I'm questioning everything that you say after that. And that also is something we have to talk about. That's a part of the bigger picture. If we are trying to dismantle the establishment and point out how private, problematic. It has been on both sides. And we're supposed to come together to fight the system. You're showing, you know, let's say your slip is showing when you can so easily call black people a monkey.

You're already telling me you're not a part of it. And we've seen those movements happen before. In the women's suffrage movement, we saw that you wanted to use black people for the movement to get it accomplished. But then when black women still couldn't vote, it wasn't an issue for you. Like that's what we have seen historically happen. And when I see you a slip of the tongue of that, it is very reminiscent. Also, I'm going to say something else here, you know, that there was an apology, and I don't like it. What does she say in her apology? The apology went through at first, bring the apology up. The apology, she starts the apology by saying that Hakeem Jeffries is bought and paid by APAC and all of that stuff like that.

but that what she said was wrong and inoffensive, and she apologizes unconditionally. All right. Okay. So apology unconditionally understood. For this particular post, we didn't need all of that other shit. And I'm sorry to say it just like that, because we have been just brutal critics of A-PAC,

of being bought by any lobby foreign governments influencing our domestic elections here any lobbying group be it the NRA and all the other stuff you got to do so you don't get called names of all of those types of lobbying groups we've talked about it here over and over again we've done that we've challenged governors

on it here governors but the moment that you are on the screen and you call Hakeem Jeffries a monkey and an Aaron boy, you need to distance yourself from what you feel like your political right and need to criticize him is and put forward his humanity, manhood, and personhood.

You don't get to continue to do that because it's no longer in good faith. So what should have happened was what I said here. about this black man is wrong. I apologize and I understand that coalition building with black people starts with the fundamental recognition of their humanity. Anything else feels like you're tacking it on at the end.

Like what I said is more important than what I did. It's not true. It's not going to work. I'm telling you right now, the reason why I love Angie Nixon is because Angie Nixon to me is the prince who was promised. You know what that is? Biblical?

It's a game of thrones. Oh. A different type of Bible. Prince was promised. I keep saying that at some point, somewhere, and you guys can tell me if I'm missing this person, I'm keeping my eyes over it, I'm looking around, right? I'm looking around.

At some point, somewhere, there's going to be a charismatic, leftist, southern black politician that is going to galvanize people in the South, and lead what I believe to be is a change in the political priorities of southern black people. A change in broadening. Not that this hasn't happened already,

but I'm talking right now there's a stranglehold in the South with the traditional centrist CBC Democrat. Absolutely. Right. But there is going to be somebody that's black, that's from the South, that is of the communities that my brothers and sisters in the South come from that challenges that order.

and that's going to be a very important and powerful person. Angie Nixon, I feel like, is or can be that candidate. This is a sister who comes through authentically and like spiritually black that has all the ideas that I like to hear. All of that. We have to support. I'm seeing it. But the thing that will erode even the ability of somebody like, that to cut through is that the rest

of these leftists who I caucus with don't understand that you cannot erase the history and present of what it means to be black in America. And if you think that you can erase that with ideas you can't. You can't. You have to

contend with it. You have to envelop yourself in it when you're talking to people and then on the other side of it you have to tell them why your ideas match their version and vision of their own humanity. If you don't do that, you're going to fucking lose. Yep.

And you're going to lose. And not only are you going to lose with them, you're going to fucking lose with me. So get her right. So a lot of people doing maybe a little get her right now. It's not, no, no, no. Okay. All right. You got out here.

One more. Hey. We're some see heroes and other see egos. Bloomberg sees the era of billionaire athletes. While others follow the noise, we follow the money. Learn more at Bloomberg.com. This is the funniest video I've seen all you.

I think you would love it. I haven't seen anything like this. Well, I tell you guys right now, where did you put this in? Had you not seen it before I put in? Oh, I should have surprised you. Had you not seen it before? Oh, dang it. Sorry.

I should I've not seen it before I put it. You want to look at it before you want to make sure that we should have surprised you well you don't want it to be too much of a surprise no no no no no that one we should have surprised you

handled yeah because we do have the surprise no no we should okay so this is funny to you no this is this is not funny there's something that exists that's more okay there's funny

you laugh and then there's funny really funny you laugh hard and then there's something that like it's energetically it's energetic hilarity I can't explain it this video I don't think this is real

because play the video so let's tell what I'm give it a little bit go ahead Jay yeah so a viral confrontation is taking over social media after a Louisiana woman Vanessa Phillips accused a man of taking nearly $1,100 from her

for a Caribbean cruise then allegedly leaving her off the reservation. First of all, the closer he gets, the funnier it gets. What is that, what do you call that? Pause a J? They're calling him

Pastor Cat Harness. Okay. So look. Because he's a pastor. So I want to make sure that we don't drift into some I want to make sure that this doesn't drift into the realm. No, no, no.

You can say that. We can say that. There's a bad round. But first of all, hold on. This still right here. I'm sorry, dog. Man, fuck that shit, dog. That shit, that shit is.

Bro, and then watch, watch. Let me say the most funny thing about the video. I'm trying to. Let me tell you the most funny thing about the video. It's like, this is like, So the closer she gets, the more terrified this nigga become. Yeah, he's just shaking. Press blood. Play the video.

Watch. Now you want to cruise, so they got shit to do a little shit. So where's my money? No. He's trying to stand in his truth. Is that your girlfriend? No. He was with his friends and was going crazy.

They loving it. Now she's going to give to the extreme close up. Watch, watch, watch. Look. Now is real. What the fuck do that got to do with it? Look. Look, look at this.

What are the same. You, man, cut it off, dog. Cut it off. So look, I watched his response. Oh, you watched the response? I did, man. I had to watch it because I watched the video. If it felt like I was underprepared for Today's show, I wasn't.

But if it felt like I was, it was because I watched that video too much. And it was taking up off the time. The part where she gets in his face. I had no idea. You loved it so much. And he started trembling. I'm sorry. Because what I don't want to do is like, I can't. that nigga that fuck that shit though that's funny

I watched this video I can't think of a worst response from any human being to anything ever like ever like ever okay like I once was with one of my home boys and his girl called him up

and we was in the car and he goes man bro I got a girl he goes man y'all gonna judge okay you got caught up with his girl it's very funny I was right there when it happened

and he's in, we're in the car and he's driving to her house, he's pleading his case, about to plead this case. And he goes, man, I'm going to have to promise on God, bro. That remains the worst response to anything ever. I was like, I don't know if, I don't know if you want to go to hell, nigga.

Like, you know what I'm saying? He's like, nah, bro, I got to promise on God, bro. I got to, man. I'm sorry, you know. And then that's when we made up the gosh. Sam God exception. I don't know what that is. I haven't told you about the God sham god exception?

No. It expired. The God sham God exception expired. What is it called? It's the God sham God exception. Okay. So it expired in 2009. We decided we weren't doing it anymore.

Okay. But there had been a creation in the play of proof to where you could promise on God. Mm-hmm. But then later on, you had to say sham God. Okay. to like balance it out. Well, God Sham God was a point guard that played for Providence. Right?

So his name was God sham God. So you could tell people, I promise on God, but you really meant sham God. Okay. So this was a way, but then we let the- So what ended it? Something big had to happen in 2009. Well, we came together as men. And we decided that if we're going to promise on God that the sham god exception had to expire.

Here's an idea Why not tell the truth? Tough Tough This is a tough one It's tough That was an option Can I be real

If there are people Rachel wants to Deride the sham god exception And talk about I know that Think of the thought that had to go into that To justify You guys

I'm not about to act like Y'all You lie you lie. I do. Men lie, women lie. Yes, we know this. It happens.

But with us, the sham god exception was it was invented and it was something that happened. And this is what made us invent the sham god exception because we held this person accountable. It's like, you can't do this. And he was like, well, what if it's sham god? And we thought, oh, that nigga's spitting.

Sham God. God. So toxic. If you don't believe me, I could call somebody right now. I wholeheartedly believe you. With the sham god exception. Which is why. Have you heard of the sham god?

No. Like you do. So God's sham god, I'm going to be real with you. The handles, when I look at handles, I look at Kyrie, Steph got crazy handles. So a lot of people, but God's sham god? The way he used to manipulate. Because he invented the sham god where he puts the ball out, boom, snatch that bitch back. You go for it.

Bang, bang, fuck you up. The sham god, you know the sham god. So we used to use that. that his name because his name was God. So we were swearing on him and not on the actual God. Okay. I'm sure God knew that we were doing wrong. Yeah, he did.

But he knew it wasn't on Sham God. But it was on Sham God. Like after a while, like, after a while, it was on Sham God. When we would say, I promised to God, and then we would go, sham God. I'm sorry, y'all. I'm sorry to the audience. This nigger unlocked something different this video.

This type of niggishness. This type of niggatory. I use the word, bro. I'm not a good black person. This type of shit. This type of shit is amazing, dog. This is so fucking stupid. Bro, this is funny, bro.

Did y'all go to his Instagram? I actually didn't go to his Instagram. I expected the whole story. How did you stop from going down a rabbit hole with this? I went down the threads. I went down to threads thing. That's how I first discovered. So I went to his Instagram

And I went to his Instagram This man, don't do it Whatever you're going to do Don't show it to me, man Who made up a cat heart? He got AI on there He was telling his truth

Look at this And by the way The New York Post The California Post The picture that child put in there This is stagecraft But he's a pastor He's a youth pastor

It seems like And he he he uh he i don't know apparently he's a scammer like this is like there are i guess other stories out there of him scamming people whether it was with cryptocurrency or

oh man this is one of the fighting men of the u.s army he's an army he's an army guy unless this is shit maybe he is maybe he not like but but it looks it looks like i don't want to take that away from the brother uh oh man you need niggas are something else.

Bro, do I... Rachel, look at this comment. On Veterans Day, he posted this. Look at this comment. Thank you for your service. Also give that lady her money back. Wait, man, what did he say in his 10-minute thing? In a 10-minute thing, it was hard to follow

because I'm not going to act like I fully understand this story. So... Because, like, does he have a... Is he a travel agent? Like, why did she give him money? Were they dating? because at one point she's like we were supposed to go together and you're here fucking other people

so I'm like was it a date? It's a little bit confusing. I don't have the context. I think there's maybe more on TikTok. She explains the whole thing on TikTok. By the way, to this sister, I hear the Louisiana in you. I hear it. But what I love also

is she put her bread together and went on a cruise just to get him. That's the type of shit I'm talking about. And you know why? Jade. Why? Because she could have been selfish and just thought about herself

and gone on this cruise and not taped it. But this beautiful sister thought about us. Because God damn it if this shit didn't make my motherfucking Thursday. I don't know, that man had some X-Men shit on.

That's something like Wolverine. I don't know. Like, that kid has... That nigga has some... That nigga has some shit on you can only with that. shit in Marvel, bro. Like, the shit that he had on...

People are saying you can purchase it. They're like, that is a pet harness. You can get it. That's not a pet harness. Why would you be wearing a pet harness, though? It didn't even cover anything up. I don't know what the goal was for it, but, like, whoever came up with cat harness,

calling him that, like, I just hope you have the best rest of the year. I'm saying... Because that is funny. That's the only reason I brought to the group because I was like, that is funny. I just want to let everybody know you can wear what you want. You can do whatever you want.

It's the name to it. All of that shit is great. But, man, that shit was funny to me. I'm sorry, y'all. I'm sorry, guys. That shit was hilarious. I watched that bitch a bunch of stuff. That man started trembling.

Like, she got his face. His lip was quivering like he was trying to hit a high note. Man, that shit was out of here. I love that shit. All right, hey, man. Shout out to the Planned Proof. We had many different things, you know. Shout out to God Shamgar.

What is God Shamgaard up to right now? Let me see. And he was coaching when I just looked it up. God Shamgarg got the beard going. I hope people understand how nice this nigger was. This nigger inspired a generation of lies. Oh, so he right now is, he's an assistant coach for the Pelicans. Okay.

Shout out to God Shamgap. At first his name was Sham God Wells, but he was like, no, my name was God. No, it is God Sham God. He was got made fun of so much. He went to Sham God Wells and used his mother's maiden name. Well, he was formerly known that Sham God Wells, but now his name, he changed his name to God Sham God. No, he was born God Sham God.

Oh, shit. He was made fun of as a kid, and so he started going by Sham God Wells using his mother's made name. Oh, but he turned that bitch back. Because by the time we knew... He must have got worried about how y'all were using his name in vain. Yeah, by the time we knew, it was God's Sham. He had gone to God Sham God.

And then by the time we knew it was God Sham God, we was on that basketball, that Big East shit, see, the big East shit, the fact that there's no more Big East basketball like talking about that costs people. Now what people are going to name, if it was niggas that need to do this, now they couldn't do it. But don't use the Sham God exception is blasphemous. It's blasphemous.

We decided it expired in 2009. Let's just practice honesty. Let's just try. Y'all be honest. That's right. But I'm not about to sit here to judge y'all. But I'm saying that y'all can't use the sham guy accession. Player Proof took that off the amount.

You mean, okay, before we go, you and your friends never had no fucked up shit that y'all did. What's the most fucked up thing? Do you have a girl? We never talked about this before as all my secrets are coming out with... I didn't have like a player-proof crew in definitely not high school. In college, like we didn't have a name.

Y'all didn't have how many girls was in it? Four. Four girls. Four girls in it, the four y'all. And y'all had a group. And what was y'all's thing? Player-proof's thing was... Well, we all started college together.

It wasn't like a thing. But what y'all... What did y'all? Who did you do together? Everything. We went to... parties together. We hung out together. Like we

I don't know, we did college together. What was the name of the group? There was no name of the group? Was there a group of guys that y'all hung out with? No. Not specific. Well, there were like pockets of groups but there wasn't like one specifically. We didn't have like what you had with the pink ladies.

Pink ladies. I fee, Marie, Allison, Tidre, Candice sometimes. Listen, I love that y'all had that. But you know, the player proof was toxic. Every time you tell us it's a toxic story.

It's not a toxic story. It usually is. Y'all feel like player proof was toxic? What? You had a good time, man. You had a good time. You had a great time. I want to hit that bit.

Well, what? Exactly. It was not toxic. You know what's funny? It's not, it wasn't toxic. It was just young guys that grew to be men. Yeah.

I'm not taking that away from you. Character art. Okay, last thing, okay, cool. So we were toxic. I'll say this. For who we were in Baton Rouge, everybody else that we knew, niggas was into some real shit.

We might have been immature guys and stuff, but, you know. Yeah, you were young. That was like y'all's gang. Yeah, it was player-proof. But, you know, that was. I like everybody I've met from the player-proof crew. Nice guys.

Yeah. Like, nice guys. Nice guys. Good fathers. good-ish husband good husbands shout out to good father honesty

good husband good honesty but so you and your home girls y'all okay what we're gonna do is you guys like we were all different like you know like in sex in the city

people often are like are you the Charlotte or you this we were all different did you have a group chat name no this is a different time like we didn't have iPhones this is college you got to remember

Facebook just started, so we didn't have that. But do women name their groups like men? Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because we had. I have a no new friends group. Right.

That's what it's called. I got a friendly production. Shout out to y'all group. That's like guys and girls. I'm trying to think of some of my other ones. Because in Baton Rouge there was a bunch of different. We had sex in the city. Wait, what kind of phone were you carrying in college?

Flip phone. Like, which one? A Nokia. We had to raise this. We had all kinds of shit. I don't know. Yeah, we have, there was, what was cool is if you had a ringtone with a song.

So in Baton Rouge, there was a couple groups, okay? Groups that were like near our group. So the group older to us, Ian's Big Brother and then, they were called DSP. What does this stand for, Dirty South players? That's not bad. But they were called the Down South Polars. Your name was better, Rachel. 100% better.

Player-proof crew is much better. They were called the Down South Polars. DSP, the Down South Polars, that's what they called themselves. And then there was another group out there called Donkey Platinum Plus. They were out there. There was different groups, man. It was different groups, different groups, different crews. Different groups, different crews.

And we all, you know, we was together. Player-proof. Let's go. Okay, we got to get out of it. was fun at the end. But I want to, I want you to tell me more about your college group and I'm going to give them a name. Okay.

Like, we were all, yeah, we were all different. Did y'all have traditions? No, I was in, like, what do you mean traditions? Did y'all have your own language and traditions? No, we didn't do all that. You have to have your own language and traditions. We did do all of that. Like, you, what you have, did you all, did you have, did you all?

Yeah. Oh, what was you, okay, before we go, because I really don't want to go. With language and traditions. What language and traditions did y'all have inside of y'all crews? Well, we threw a lot of, like, we threw a lot of parties. So for us, that was like, but our group was called 509. That was the women's crew. And then we had a co-ed crew that was soren, but it stood for Society of Real Niggas.

Oh! Yeah. Okay, Soren, Society of Real Niggas. Y'all had a crew. Yeah. A crew, so then y'all didn't, y'all had a crew together. Yeah, we had like a co-ed crew. and then 509 was the girls group.

I have to ask you something. In these crews, the co-ed crew, they're fucking. Some but not all. Okay, so in the play, some but not all. There was some. Yeah, but not all.

There was some. Yeah, there was like one or two, you know, that maybe three, but for the most part, it was like 12 of us. But no, what was the name of your group? We love white women? No. One, didn't grow with white people.

Okay. But no, it was a TGP 301. What was it called? TGP 301. What does that stand for? Yeah. Well, TGP is the name of my school, so we just stole the name of our school, Thomas George Pullen, and then 301 is our aerial coat. Okay.

Okay. TGP 301. Well, I missed out. I didn't have a name. These are crews. Crews and names and names and crews. Mm-hmm. But I know that you have a crew now, and I know, like, I name that crew, honestly.

That crew is, you know, defunct. is yeah sadly that crew that crew is the farm hey man take your thing caps off hey bro shout out to God sham guard

the shamgarde the shamgarde exception inspired in 2009 shout out to Ian Geno Ryan Brian Brian Tray everybody in the

player approved crew playerproof motherfuckers shout out to Daniel Brooks and Walter Thompson from if I go will they miss me shout out to JL

Foneman love everything that you guys are doing. Love the whole fucking movie. Love this podcast, man. Shout out to everybody, man. Take 10 caps off, but do not stop learning I'm Van Latelythe Jr. I'm Rachel and Lindsay.

Shout out to Harnesses.