Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Free Speech and ‘Drink Champs,’ Plus Student Loan Forgiveness is Here

Episode Date: October 18, 2022

Van and Rachel react to the latest Kanye West appearance on ‘Drink Champs’ and N.O.R.E.’s ensuing apology (13:13), Jamaica banning the glorification of drugs and crime (42:35), and student loan forgiveness going into effect (55:48). Also, a conversation on the widespread increase in police budgets (1:03:34), and Van reveals he’s an animal secret agent (1:17:34). Hosts: Van Lathan Jr. and Rachel Lindsay Producer: Donnie Beacham Jr. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Higher learning is on. It is I, Van Lathen, Jr., here with Diana Roth. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. Rachel, you're so dressed up. What's going on here? Normally I like to change in some more comfortable clothes.

More me. But this is, I just left a junket for a movie, Armageddon Time. No, no it. About loosely based off James Gray, the director's life. James Gray. I don't know who that is. Oh, okay, movie buff. What did he do?

This stars Ann Hathaway and Jeremy Strong. And Anthony Hopkins. What did James Gray do? He's a director. Of what? I have to know because I don't think I know him. James Gray. Let me look.

James Gray. He directed The Lost City of Z. Did you see that? Oh, I saw that movie. So wait, he made a movie, the Law City of Z. I've seen the Law City of Z. He made a movie about him. His life.

It's very loosely based. It's actually very interesting because it's based in 1980. And so it's right on the eve. Oh, he did Ad Astra, too. I saw Ad Astra. He's, it's on the eve of, um, Ronald Reagan winning, um, the vote and becoming the president. Winning the vote. It's on the eve of Ronald Reagan winning the vote.

And it's, uh, it deals with the kid, which is supposed to be him and the dynamic between his parents. And it deals with. and capitalism and unfair treatment because the kid, who's him, has a befriended a black kid at school. Negro child? Yeah. And so it deals with racism. Fred Trump's in it.

Marianne Trump is in it. Fred Trump? There's a guy who plays Fred Trump. Why would he be in the movie? Because the kid goes, I don't know if I can say all this. I can't say all this. I'm going to see it. But it was, it's definitely getting the Oscar buzz.

It deals with really good things. Anyway, so I'm leaving that junket. here and then I gotta go do a red carpet tonight. What's the red carpet for? L. Women in Hollywood. Who's all gonna be there? Do you know? Do you have a list of people? Yeah, there are eight women that are on the cover.

Who? I cannot name all of them off the top, but. Who's on there? Just give us one. Give us a couple. Give us one or two. Olivia Wild. Oh yeah, she's wild all right. Okay. She's wild. She's got style too. Zoe Kravitz. Zoe? Okay. Zoe had an up and down year.

She got smacked with the... By the Twittersfeet? I'm mixing up who is a... Yeah, she did by a twister. Who is a presenter? Oh, Issa Ray. Okay. No, I've heard of her before.

Anne Hathaway. Who I just had? I love Ann Hath. Sydney Sweeney. Arianna Debose. Sidney. Ariana DeBos. Sidney's the next big thing.

Wouldn't you already say she's a big thing? Actually, I would. Okay, Sigourney Weaver. And Michelle Yo. And there you, Coachella. No. Michelle Yo. Yeah, I met her.

I met Michelle Yo at Lawrence Bender's house. We went to Lawrence Bender's house. He's so fancy, y'all. And I'm Diana Ross. And Michelle Yo was there. And everybody was telling her, because she's going to win an Academy Award for, I think, for everything, everywhere all at once. She's at least going to be nominated.

I think she should win. But I haven't seen all the movies. I have to go see the Arbor. We don't know all the movies yet. Well, I mean, but you have to, I know some of the movies are out, but you have to make, you know, the movies are coming out. I saw blonde. I hope that wins nothing. That's one of the words.

I don't think that's going to get nominated. No, but like that was a big, people thought that was going to be a big deal. I saw it as well. Not great. Love Michelle Yo, love the role. Interested to see what happens. Jomey from the ringer was with me. Okay.

So you take some of your ringer. co-workers with you not all. You were gone. You don't know that? This was labor. We know exactly where you were. I was here at Labor Day.

No. Yeah, I was here Labor Day. You were doing something else. Yeah, we know. And so Jomey was there and he saw Michelle, yo, and he flipped out. They embarrassed himself.

Embarrassed himself. He embarrassed the company. Did she see it? Yeah, she saw it. The company. What did he do? He was just, he was just, he started doing kicks.

No, he started acting like he was doing. because she does martial arts. Yes, I know. So he started acting, he was like, oh, yeah, I love you and James Bond. He just made a complete fool of himself. And he did that. Oh, Jomey. Never again.

All right. Jomey. Jomey can be, oh, speaking of martial arts, I just met the saddest thing in the back here. I just met a kickboxer with a broken wing. It's talking to people. I look back there, talk to the guy. He's a kickboxer. He does MMA stuff for the ringer.

And I asked him to kick because if you tell me you do something, I'm going to ask you to do it. And he says he can't because he hurt his hip. The kid looks like he's maybe in his late 20s. He's already got a problem with his hip. That shows you that's why I do squats. That's why I do hip flexor stretches because I don't want to end up like him. And this is why people don't open up to you. You just met the guy.

The guy shares an injury. And here you are blasting him on the podcast. I share it. I didn't name them. I share my injuries when I get injured. You are sharing your own injuries.

Guess who will never come in and sit on our podcast again? I hope about it. He was a nice. Son of a bitch. He was cooling. LSU won this week. So to Texas.

Barely. Iowa State. It was a good, good victory for Texas. Texas doesn't look. What's Texas's record? Five and ones? Something like that?

Yeah. Yeah. We only lost the game. Alabama. He lost Alabama game. Texas is not too bad. Looking good. Looking good.

LSU got the big win down in the swamp. What's their record? Five and two. Yeah, I didn't give Brian shit. I could have. I could have given Brian shit. I could have given Brian shit. I was about to text him,

but now I was thinking that would just make him eat a bagel or something. He would have texted you. No, he would have gone out and worked it out or something. Oh, that's what he does? Is he one of those? I'm mad so I work out people? He's whatever, any emotion he's going to work out. Really?

So like, that's so crazy. What discipline? I live in the house with him and I don't have the discipline. Who style you? One of us has got to just let themselves go. Who styled you for the red carpet tonight? Extra. It's an extra event, so extra gives me clothes.

They give you clothes and then do they style, they put the clothes together? They tell you what to wear? Mm-hmm. Wait, what? Well, I mean, they pick it out. I mean, I have a choice. I can say I don't like that. Just like they put me in this today.

Oh, so. But extra's not like. If it's extra related, there's a stylist said extra and in-house stylist. And so she stops. But they're not like, extra's not coming to you saying, hey, you got to wear this. Like you need to wear this ready. No, not the specific item of clothing, but they specifically dress me. What if, okay, what if you are going to an event for extra?

And extra said, hey, here's your outfit. And you said you didn't like it. But X-O-Wing it, you're going to wear it. See, it's been done before where I said I didn't like it. It's never been done where they said, you're going to wear it. Yeah, this is Big E. That's what we're going to start calling it, extra. Please don't.

The Big E. Please don't. This is the big E. You're going to wear. You didn't even comment on my faux bangs. Well, I don't know. I mean, I don't comment on the way. But it's a new look.

I don't. I can say, hey, you're dressed up, but anything else is a road straight to this town called H.R.ville. And I try to stay off that row. I'm not going to, I'm not going to comment on your head. I'm not doing it. My faux bangs? So those are not real bangs. I could clip them off right now.

Do you like them? Oh, you hate them. I think they look good. I like the new look. It's fun. It's something different. Yeah, it makes you look. That's what takes me back to the 60s.

That was the whole Diana Ross thing. It's a very maud look. Maud. What is it? Maud, what is it? Like 60s. Is that what that means? The Mod Squad?

From the 60s. Is that from the 60s? I thought so. I think the Mod Squad might be the 70s. Hold on, let me see. I don't know. I don't know. Clans Williams is the 70s.

I know he was in it. 68. Yes. 68. School one for Rach. Mod Squad. 68 and it went into. But think like bright colors, plaids, go-go boots.

You know, this kind of hairstyle. This is really beyond. Monse B-Day inspired. So Peggy Lipton, here from the Mod Squad. Oh, she's passed away. I didn't realize that. Did you know who Peggy Lipton was married to? I do.

Who? Quincy Jones. Bam. Like, that's such an interesting fact to it that I learned when I was a kid. And I was like, you know, because, you know, Quincy is, he has a type. They were with each other for a long time. Who was he with before and after? I don't even know.

Some other white woman. Is it all this one? Shout out to Quincy Joe. He's a hero. Van I had the best weekend. I was with my ringer folks in New York City. BravoCon. At BravoCon.

How was it? It was magical. Really? Everywhere I turn, there was a housewife from a different city. There and then all the other Bravo shows. I got some moderator panel. I got to do a live reading. Oh.

Oh, you told me this. Of an episode, a very famous episode called Scary Island from Real Housewives of New York City. It was so much fun. We were podcasting there. We were attending the panels. We partied with them. It was great. So who did you see?

Did you see Nini Leaks? Now, we all know Nini Leaks has had just sued the network. So she was, she dropped the lawsuit. She was not invited. Wait, I didn't know this. I don't know anything about that world. That's my blind spot. I know Nini.

Name five housewives. Nini. Of all time? Of all time. Nini Leaks. Portia. Okay. Portia Williams.

Bethany Frenkel. Good job. Good job. None of these are current housewives, but this is still okay. Ebony K. Williams. Again, not current. I didn't see her. Fadre.

All right. Fadra Parks. Fadra Parks. All of them, only Fadre was there, who I did see. Let me try to name. name a current housewife. Kyle Richards. Very good. Kyle's sister is Kim.

She's not current. She's not on there no more. I used to see Kyle on I used to see Kyle, Kyle was kind of fine. I used to see Kyle. I used to see Kyle on Bedford because she had a store right there. Yes. And she's married to Mauricio.

Wow. Yeah. Don't shortchange yourself. You know more than you think. But I know Maricio because he is a realtor. Yes. Okay.

And while don't watch the housewives, I do love million dollar list. He was on a couple of times. He was on a few times. He's not on the show all the time. So now they have a new show coming out on Netflix. What is it called? I don't know, but it's about the real estate. The agency is his is his group because he left who?

Who is his in-law that he left? Hilton and Highland. Hilton and Highland. Yeah. Kathy Hilton's a real housewife. Oh, really? Mm-hmm. There's a lot.

There's a lot of drama there. Kathy Hilton, she wasn't always on there, was she? No, she's been there this second season, and she is a big-time fan favorite. I know shit. Just let you guys know, we had two of the types of interviews that you guys would want. Yep. Two interviews, we're not going to tell you who they are, but they were very important people running for some offices. Guess what?

They both canceled. So, we tried. Get off. We tried. We're sick of the shit. Okay, we had two interviews. Now to come on the show, it's got to be PhD or better. So, at two interviews, both of them canceled.

One, like two for two. Before we get into the show, oh, this is actually a topic, so I won't have to do it. I'll tell you guys straight up, the first topic is about drink champs. And the Kanye interview. To be expected. No, hey. Just making sure people know. All right.

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Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimfaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimfaya, including important safety information. Rachel. Yeah. Noriega, drink champs, Kanye West, go. I'm not going to talk about what Kanye said on there.

Yeah. Because we've been down that road. It's more cowbell. It's more the shit. Yeah. The fact that Noriega, does he still call himself that? It's Norie. Didn't it used to be something else?

Well, it was Noriega. It was a component. Okay. Don't make me sound like I don't. Like there wasn't any type of correlation. Copona Noriega. Dope. Dope duo.

Norrie went solo. And then he gave me one of my anthems for all anthems. Which was? What, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what. What super thug. Man. I love that shit. Come back.

I love like, I used to do this thing. I used to do this thing in like freshman year. We're like, just talk to me. Say something. So what did you do this weekend? What, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, super thug. And how long do you sit on pause? Until, until a person gets annoyed.

It's just like, it's just so, I just loved it. That song was so nuts. But it was anyway But now, in case you guys In Noriega, hip hop legend Went on to break reggae tone Into hip hop to be part of it, whatever Now he has the very popular drink champs podcast

And they had Kanye on you were saying Right. Nori. Okay. So not the first time What, what, what? I'm just joking. I was just playing. I wasn't ready. And I should have expected it.

You know that's going to be stuck in my head all day. Thank you, Van. And everybody else who's listening to this now. All right, so this isn't the first time we've seen Kanye on. Although he was making some comments

the last time, nothing compared to what we saw this time, which is very similar to the comments that he's made on every single platform as a very recent, right? If not, I mean, the George Floyd was new. That was new. I had never heard that. That was new.

We know that he went to the documentary with Candace Owens, which was about George Floyd and Black Lives Matter. And so he was speaking on what he, saw and quote unquote learned during that a documentary. So I don't even want to get into all that because my problem is with Nori. Right. So this is Norie's podcast. It's a popular podcast. This is Kanye coming on this podcast where he's talking to black people on a black

podcast, on a black network to a majority black audience. There's a level of responsibility that you have to adhere to with this being your platform. I'm speaking. to Norie when I say this. To be expected that Kanye West was going to, you could have, you could expect that Kanye West was going to be exactly the same as he's been over these last few weeks months. It's your responsibility to hold him,

to be a gatekeeper in a sense, and hold him in a place where he is not being derogatory towards black people. And he failed to do that off the top. In his intro of Kanye, I was already annoyed, and I knew exactly how the interview was going to go. He notes the numbers that they're going to get from him doing this podcast because of how well it did last time. He calls him a genius in more than one way.

He's wearing a 2024 hat. He notes that Kanye is the man who just can't be canceled. And he also notes how influential he is. And then when he references Kanye's behavior over this, these last few weeks months, he refers to it as a little turmoil. Right. Right. Then and there, he set the stage for the entire interview. He made Kanye feel very comfortable to continue in the manner that he always has been,

especially now that he was in the midst of a friend and on a very familiar platform. Noriega messed up here big time. And I truly believe, and we know he's apologized since, and we can rate that later. We're going to write that. We're going to write that later. I truly believe he knew he was going to get backlash. He knew that he would have to come out and apologize, but he didn't care because he wanted the numbers.

He wanted the clicks. He wanted, if you even look at his Twitter feed and you see how he is amping people up about how they're about to break the internet, pictures with Kanye, getting everybody all, you know, and I would think, oh, he's going to, to hold him accountable. He's going to check him. He's going to speak to him as his friend.

He's going to be the one to do that. And instead, you let him go on a completely different rant than now could have possibly him and you in a lawsuit. So this was extremely disappointing to see. All right. So let's hear what Kanye said regarding George Floyd real quick, just so people know. I watched the George Floyd documentary that Candace Owens put up. One of the things that his two roommates said was they want a tall guy like me. They want a tall guy. like me. And the day when he died, he said a prayer for, you know, eight minutes. He said a prayer for eight minutes. They hit him with the fentanyl. If you look, the guy's knee wasn't even on his neck like that. When he said, Mama, Mama is his girlfriend. They said he screamed for his mama.

Mama was his girlfriend. It's in the documentary. Okay. We'll tell you where I agree with you. I'm going to tell you where I disagree with you. Okay. Oh. Oh. We'll tell you where I agree with you. I'll tell you where I disagree with you. Let's say I go on Norrie's show right now.

Okay. I really want to do the super thug thing, but we got to be serious. Let's say I go on Norris show right now. Yes. And I'm sitting there talking to Norrie and EFN and just full disclosure. I've talked to Nore and EFN about, well, not Norah. I've talked to EFN about trying to get down there to do the show before. Not saying I was going to do it or anything like that,

but I've been in contact with them about doing it. Let's say that I was on the show right now. And I said, Leor Cohen started Def Jam. Okay. Norie and EFN would jump out and say, no, he didn't. I'm like, no.

1984, whatever, Lear Cohen is during who you start Def Jam, later on he hires Russell Simmons. They're going to go, no, you're wrong. You're wrong about that. Russell Simmons started Def Jam. Like Russell Simmons started it. Like you don't know what you're talking about.

Russell Simmons started. That's because they feel strength, power, and connection to what it is as being said, the truth of what it is that's being said. Right? That's something that they feel like, in my opinion, on a hip-hop platform, is in their willhouse to challenge and jump in and be there.

The question I have for them is why they didn't feel that way with George Floyd? Like, do they not know the truth about how George Floyd died? Do they not feel, why was there no quickening to challenge the same way if someone said something negative in hip-hop or if someone said something that was inauthent to the history of hip hop or someone said something that was demeaning to a rapper because I've seen them do that before. Like Kanye was on there before.

Kanye disses to live Kuali. Right? And Nori interjects. He doesn't say, yo, you can't talk. He's like, nah, man, to live Kuali, correct? Like, he interjects. My only question is like, why didn't George Floyd? get that.

Right. Like what was the thing? I think it was a magnificent failing on behalf of not just Norrie and F-E-N, but of the platform. It very rarely do you get a master class and what a platform can't do. So we've seen what drink champs can do. And what they can do, and what they do do very well, is celebrate artists that are on there. Let us relax. Let us vibe.

Let us connect with people who we've seen on our televisions for a long time. They do a great job of making you feel like you chilling in the room. They almost feel like a spades game about to bust out when you're watching drink champs. Now we know better than anything what that platform cannot do. Yeah. That conversation is too big, too important. Yes. And too sensitive to be had on drink champs.

They don't have the bandwidth. And they would have to do something to prove that it was different, right? That things were different. Well, I don't know that I agree is that. the intention of drink champs was to antagonize people and the intention was to energize Kanye to do the things that he did. I don't think that. What did you say?

What did you say? I think that their intention was to get views. Well, yeah, of course. That's why you put Kanye on there. I don't think that it was about. Okay. We got crossed up. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't think it was about, you know, geared in that way that you said it, I think it was more of they didn't care, they just wanted the clicks. That I agree with. You can't, to be so glad we're on the same pace. See how we're talking about?

Like, that I agree with. Like, for certain, I don't think they cared what Kanye was going to say. Nope. And the fact that we can agree about that, that they didn't really care what Kanye was going to say is just a massive, massive, massive issue.

And, you know, we're going to get to Norie's apology in a little bit. But Kanye West is now a cultural nuclear bomb. It's no longer about music. It's no longer about fashion. It's about someone who can do. Maybe not any real way, but he's just incredibly, like the one thing that happens when a nuclear bomb goes off, it destroys everything. But the first thing it does is it sends out an EMP and it turns everything off. And then everything's turned off and it's hollow and then everything just destroys.

And it seems like with Ye, in whatever way we've made him up, because it is us, you just put him someplace and let him wreak havoc. and terror on stuff. And for everybody that says we play into it too much, they're right. But he just hurt George Floyd's family. Yeah. He just, that's real. Like, I know everything else that we're saying is like, oh, man, you feel insulted over a t-shirt. You feel, but, like, actually being misinformed, lying about the reason why George Floyd died and playing up a white supremacist

narrative that it wasn't. Think about what it means, just real quick, think about what the fentanyl narrative about George Floyd actually means. Okay? Think about what it really means. So you have a man who went into a store, came out, was detained by cops, cops put their knee on his neck for nearly nine minutes and killed him. Right. So the police that are there to protect and serve, did not in any way care about George Floyd's life, they laid on him until he died

and we all had to watch it. Think about what the fentanyl narrative means. The fentanyl narrative says that George Floyd didn't die. He wasn't executed by the state. What it tries to do is paying him as another crazed deranged

drug addict nigger who eventually was going to pass away and die anyway. Right. Because of his reckless, drug-filled, crummy life. It attempts to shift all the blame away from the police whose job it is to protect George Floyd,

even if he is a criminal. Right. Even if he had done something wrong, they still have to preserve his life. And it shifted back on the narrative that black people are, criminally deranged drug addicts. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. And Kanye is co-signing on it. Absolutely, he's co-signing on it. You know, you said something about people saying that we play into it. I don't think that's what we're doing. I think the people who you have to say are playing into it are the people who continue to give him a platform to spew out this damaging, demeaning, derogatory, hateful speech. I think the people who play into it are people who say, who hide behind, well, I'm just, a person who stands for free speech, which is something that Nori said.

There's a difference between free speech. Sure, you can't just be like, oh, free speech, you can say whatever you want to, and there's real life consequences behind the things that you say. And the things that Kanye West is saying, they're real life consequences, which is why you have to address it. It's not playing into it. You have to combat the things that he's saying. You just have to. There's just a level of responsibility when it comes to that, or you should feel compelled to do so, which is why I'm so baffled in that moment. Being black, a black man, why Nori did not feel so compelled, so bothered,

so disgusted by what Kanye West said. I don't think you have to be that well-versed in every single detail surrounding George Floyd. We all saw the video. We all saw the aftermath and the quote-unquote racial awakening that this country had, or at least how it energized black people, especially the youth.

You saw it. You felt it. We were there. And I'm sure he addressed it on his podcast too. So then, and that not started, but that particularly was initiated at the death of murder of George Floyd. So I don't understand how you can hide behind free speech. Let's listen to Norway's apology real quick.

And we'll have a conversation about free speech real quick. You know, you know, I just want to, be honest. I support freedom of speech. I support anybody, you know, not being sensitive, but I do not support anybody being hurt. I did not realize that the George Floyd's statements on my show was so hurtful. And you got to realize it was the first five minutes of the show. Like when he walked in, he told my producer, he said that if he'll stop filming that he'll walk out. So I didn't want a Birdman moment I didn't want a Birdman moment

With Shaw like you know With Birdman walked out So I wanted the man to speak But later on Like I actually checked them About the George Floyd's comments I actually checked them about The White Lives Matters

But it was so later in the episode And it was so It was so like You know I was already inebriated at that time That maybe people looked over it All right so I want to I want to have a free speech conversation real quick Okay

Okay And I'll And let's take out the fact that Kanye West is factually wrong about George Floyd. Because we're talking about George Floyd on this particular podcast right now. But there was also a whole treasure trove of platforming some of the worst, some of the oldest and some of the most dangerous tropes about Jewish people. that exist that Kanye decide to do. He's very intent on doing that. Okay, so let's talk about free speech real quick.

There's lots of ways that you can exercise free speech. A lot of different ways. Free speech is your right to not say something as well. And I think that's something that people don't understand. Free speech is also not being compelled, not free speech is also knowing when to shut up and knowing when to shut something up. We're living in this world where no actual definitions matter anymore and it's more about the ability to create and craft a narrative and it's peculiar.

Free speech is a free speech. Free speech is a tenet, a cornerstone of our democracy that'll allows you the ability to say things that might be uncomfortable and not be persecuted by the government. Okay. Just for people to know, the moment you walk in a building, the moment you're at your job, if you come into my house and you say something about my mama, I have the right to ask you to leave. if you come into my house and you say, hey, Van, you look like you've gained an extra 40 pounds.

I have the right to say, you know what? I'm not trying to deal with you right now. Get the fuck out of my house. Yeah. Okay? Like, I can't have you arrested. I can't have you thrown in jail. But free speech doesn't mean that you have to subject yourself

to a bunch of ideas, thoughts, and opinions that either you don't like, which I wouldn't suggest that you don't, that you turn off every opinion that you don't like, but that are harmful or hurtful to you. Free speech doesn't mean that you have to self-flog yourself. That there's some, that you should find people who are going to say the most hateful,

dangerous shit and just take it and eat it because free speech says that they should be allowed to say it to your face. If you think you got free speech, go on your job, talk some shit. Go on your Twitter that's connected to your job talk some shit. You're in a private situation,

a private business that'll tell you to get the fuck out. Kanye West has the right to think whatever he wants to think. Everybody does. Everybody has the right to think whatever it is that they want to think.

Platforming it or putting it on unchallenged is not in the interest of free speech. Free speech is supposed to be about opinions and then it's supposed to be

about dissenting opinions. It's supposed to be about America's ability to to hear things that they don't like and, like, retort to them. We always talk about boycotts and stuff like that. A boycott is a form of free speech. That's me saying,

I don't want you to support this thing that encroaches upon me. So, just because... Let me put it through this. If you want Yale, to be able to say what he's going to say, that's fine. That's cool.

But you can't then use that as armor. Exactly. From people who are going to have a problem with you. We talked about on this podcast. We haven't always done the best job with guests. We haven't. People get mad. Everybody hates every single guest.

Like, people hated the guest that we had on to talk about the fact that they hated a guest. People did not like... Nikki's appearance of the podcast, which I thought Nicky was great. She was. But people hated the guests that we brought on to talk about the fact that they didn't like a guest.

So nobody likes any guests that we bring on high. Nobody's safe. Nobody's safe on higher learning. From the soul is jackals that can get you. So it doesn't matter. But this notion of free speech being this thing that means that we can't hold you accountable as a society for the bad ideas that you have is really weird.

No, it's not weird. It's just wrong. It's just wrong. And that is why my apology rating is a one. You're giving Nory a one for his apology. Because I truly believe he did not care what people think, as we stated. He did not care what we think. He did it anyway for his own motives, for his show, for the views, for the attention that it was going to get.

I think he always planned to apologize. But he had defenses in his apology. Free speech, I believe in free speech. That was one. He also talked about how he had talked to my son, right? He's like, to my son, shout out to Tamika. He talked about, I think he said Tamika too. He definitely said my son.

And because that apology that we just heard, it was from the breakfast club. And he talks about how he wanted to wear gear, you know, kind of like that's for Black Lives Matter. Interesting. But you ended up, he didn't say Black Lives Matter, but he said he talked to, to Mysan, about wearing some. You wanted to wear that until FreedomShare. Yes. And instead, you wore a 2024 hat. Okay.

Then he talked about, you know what? Because Charlemagne did challenge him on, this is the positive thing, did challenge him on why he sat there when he was talking about George Floyd. And his response was, you know, this isn't political champs. It's drink champs. Why the fuck, by the way, that's a lot. But this isn't political. But that's my issue. That's my big problem.

This is not a political issue. Black Lives Matter to me is not political, especially you being a black person who this directly impacts. And that's, it is a right-wing thought to say Black Lives Matter is getting into politics. So for you to politicize what George Floyd, you really don't get. And that infuriated me when I'm mad. I'm hot. By the way, No, you're more than welcome to come on this podcast. We'd love to talk to you about it.

But that is why, I mean, it's worse than a one. When he said it's not political champs, I'm like, you really don't get it or you're not choosing to get it. Because George Floyd is not political. It's not a political issue. So, but the only thing, I watched the rest of the interview, or parts of the rest of the interview. Which interview?

the drink champs Kanye West interview with everyone. And at one point he asked him, Donald Trump or Joe Biden. So they definitely had, they definitely had the inkling that Kanye West, who's been ranting about politics, who just did Tucker Carlson, who, yeah, they definitely had the inkling

that Kanye West was going to get political on the podcast. That he got political the last time, there's not a time that Kanye West comes, on a podcast that he doesn't get politically political. They definitely had an inkling he was going to get political. They were woefully unprepared, either woefully unprepared, caught off guard, or No, they were not caught off guard. They wanted the wacky yay.

Yes. Because the wacky yay is the yay that is, that brings in the most, the most eyes. I will tell you this. Drink Champ's a great podcast. The great podcast, Ring Champs is. I'm not saying it's not. A lot of fun. Dream Champs has injured its brand

in a way that is irrevocable. I don't even think it'll affect them. Let me tell you something. Sadly. They will go on and become and they will go on and be the same great podcast that they've always been.

However, for a lot of people, for a lot of people, this fundamentally alters the percentage, of the podcast. Because, just be honest with you. For a lot of people, this fundamentally

alters the perception of the podcast. They seemed unsurious. Look, man, in the times that we're in right now, in the times that we're in right now, your inability

to grab your sword and shield when it's time to get busy is just going to be looked at differently. It's going to be looking at at differently. There was a weakness

that came along with this entire situation. It seemed at times like they were sycophants. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? And so whereas that podcast isn't about that

and I get that it's not about that, there's still something that feels weak about what happened. It feels... They were exposed. That's not their lane. It's not...

Yeah, exposed, but it also feels like yay sun them like he like he like they kind of like did he did he if they got exactly what they wanted

from it? No no no no but like even now it's like you do the podcast you put it out the next day you do an apology tour all great dream champs a lot of fun love to watch it some of the best stuff but it's just I think for a lot of people to have a

it seems so unsirious during really serious times, that it, they might have to do a little work to kind of get those people back. And for some people, they might not, they might not want to fuck with it as much. This is a revolt podcast.

This is revolt. It's not a Revolt podcast. Let's, let me say, Revolt airs the video for drink champs. Drink Champs came out before, and they have a video deal with Revolt. Could Revolt have pulled the video? And is there a level of responsibility?

on them to have done that. I mean, I don't think it was a level of responsible. I think... Well, that's why I said... Sure. Well, that's why I said what bothered me at the top of all this is you're talking to black, black host on a black podcast, majority black audience on a black network. Okay, maybe not podcast network, but it's airing in some form revolt is involved, which is black-owned.

Yeah. So look, that's that. Thought Warriors. It's tough. It's tough. It's tough times in the triggering speech era. I can only hope that we all understand that it's not just our job to free speech is important. Free speech is a cornerstone of American freedom.

But I think the only thing I think we would all argue is more important in free speech is protecting black families. and the family of George Floyd was subjected to lies to false narratives and to an attack from Kanye West that he learned from his new friends

or his old friends I just hope that the next platform and there will be another platform that has Kanye on realizes that there's accountability not just in him but in you So there you go. This episode is brought to you by Sweet Green.

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I have, but it was so quick. Where'd you go? Where'd you go in Jamaica? I went to, I was in Kingston. No, I was in Montego Bay. In Montego Bay. I was in Montego Bay. I went for a wedding.

I missed my flight the first day, so I was only there for like 36 hours. What did you do? Did you eat the, did you have some conk salad? No, I had conk in Turks and Kako. Yeah, I don't like kunk. I do. Have you had it fresh?

They would pick it from the water and give it to you. Conk is not my thing. The kong is more of a Bahamas thing than a Jamaica thing. But I don't like the kunk. You know what I mean? It's like, it's not, I don't like it. They got the kunk on the salad. How did you, how did they prepare your kunk?

It was fresh. They literally picked it out of the water. And then you ate raw kunk? And descheled it. And, yeah, we ate it. It was very fresh, very good. Don, do you ever have the conk? Well, the conk?

No, never. Donnie, you ever get the, you ever eat the conk? Not once, no. What? Is it like oysters? Right. No, it's not that slimy. No, it's not that slimy.

It goes, it's different in your throat. The conch is. It goes down in a different way. It goes down in a different way. It's just a question. God damn, you guys are so immature. Jamaica, where you can go and have a great time. What a beautiful country.

Has banned... You've been? No. Okay. You're like such a beautiful country. I sit it on TV, man. Beautiful country. I love Jamaica.

I love Jamaicans. Jamaicans got so much flavor. It bans broadcasting music and TV deemed to glorify drugs or crime. Jamaica's broadcasting regulator has banned music and television broadcast deemed to glorify or promote criminal activity, violence, drug use, scammy, scamming, and weapons. Jamaican artists have criticized the measure saying that it cuts populations affected by heightened gun violence out of the conversation and it will do little to stop crime. What do you think about this? I don't know.

Well, my first reaction was let me, who runs Jamaica? I was like, let me look to see who's over Jamaica, prime minister. And then I was like, okay, are they white? Okay. They're not. They've had white prime ministers there before. But this one, but the one who's been there since 2016 is black. Okay.

So it's like, okay, it's a black guy. Then I was like, well, who else runs? And then they have a parliament. So I was like, let me look up the makeup of the parliament. I just wanted to see if they were majority white. Right. It's very diverse. The parliament.

Who's in? Like George and the parliament. So they have the, okay, so listen, okay. So you did your homework on Jamaica. Just to see the makeup of the government. Right. Because I wanted to say is this, you know, if it was an all-white. thing. I thought, well, maybe this is geared towards, I don't know, I don't know, something,

something in a negative way towards, you know, black people. Negroes? Negroes. Okay. But that's not the case. So the art imitating life thing is not what gets to me. It's the whole, where did I see this? Maybe it was this.

They're doing it because they hope that it'll stop crime, but I guess there's nothing that proves that it will actually stop crime. And although I'm not necessarily like, oh, art imitates life, so we should rap about it. That's not even that. I understand that. But if people, but on the flip side, if people are rapping about the things that they see, then maybe your focus is in the wrong place. Maybe rather than banning the music, you should understand why they're rapping about this music.

You should understand what it is that they're talking about. Find a solution for those things that you think are a, problem. That's, I guess, how I look at it. So I feel like what they're trying to do is misguided. The ban is wrong. Yeah. Can't ban it. Can't ban the fucking music. I think it's terrible.

I think it's really bad. I think that... Because it's everything. Yeah. I think that unfortunately drug use, violence, it's a part of some people's experiences, wherever they are. It's going to be in music.

The question becomes, how is it use in music. Here's the thing. The interesting part about this is it says that down there in Jamaica, it's about glorifying drugs or crime. The question becomes, and there's also talked about getting urban slang off of the off of television. The question becomes, how do we, and this is a question that I want everybody to kind of think

about. how do we interrogate where glorification begins? That's the question. I think that's a question that we're asking of music art here. How do we talk about, Jay-Z has a song called Meet the Parents. It's a fantastic song. Don, do you ever heard that song?

Yeah, I think so, but I'm about to look it up now. Yeah, whatever. So Jay-Z has a song called Meet the Parents. Is this really stirring, moving song, It takes you this whole story about this one particular murder and about how the murder goes down. The story is about a kid, a man who is out there while doing this thing. He meets a girl, him and the girl have a relationship. He bugs out.

He leaves the girl, right? He leaves the girl and the girl has a baby, but he doesn't think the baby is his, right? So he leaves the girl. That guy ends up on the block one day. He's still on the block, Savage and Blonde doing his thing. Kid walks up to him, pulls a gun out, and tells him to get off the block. The kid hesitates. The old man doesn't hesitate.

He kills the kid. The kid is his son. This is all in the song? It is a brilliant, masterful song. I suggest that you listen to this thing called rap music. Okay, I can't listen to every song. over the cold so is a brilliant masterful song. In that song

at some point, you know, talks about the kid raising the 38. Right? Right. The kid raises the 38. He raises the gun. The older man gets the, he had the kid at the drop. He was clear had to drop, but the boy just paused. It was something in his man's face he knew he'd seen before. And so the man took up, boom, kills the kid. So the gun is a character in that song.

Okay, one thing. That's one thing to say, that that song, which is not about guns, which is actually about the failing of one man to be present in his son's life and how he killed the boy both figuratively and literally. It's a brilliant illustration of how intra-community crime, how fatherlessness, how all of these things lead to violent situations. And the boy that you kill that you don't know just might be your own, okay? Brilliant. Has a gun in it. How do you differentiate between a song and it's drug use and drug selling in it, drug dealing in it as well, that has that in it to a song that's all about that,

to a song that's choppers, chopper, chopper, chop you up? Or kill, kill, kill, kill. Like, how do you what, I mean, we know what it is. We know when we hear it. But the artist is going to say, yeah, I'm making a song about a gun. I'm making a song about killing because that's the reality in my neighborhood. I have to kill. I have to have the gun.

So the song is about my experience. The question is, where does it stop and where does it start? And how do we know and are able to actually have the question of how much this is affecting the youth? I know to me, and Mouse Jones is going to be mad at me. Shout out to Mouse. I think drill music is, particularly here in America, is having a big effect on the youth. And I think it's having a big effect on the youth. And it's also a commentary on what the youth are going through.

I think it's both. So I don't know. I'm definitely about having a conversation about how much hip hop is really contributing to us right now. Like, I really am. But I got to stop short at just banning this type of shit, right? I got to stop short. Yeah. Well, an all-out ban.

You're right. But, again, how do you... It's almost like all or nothing. Not agreeing with the all, but I don't even know how you're able to chop it up and differentiate, okay, well, this is okay and this isn't. Which is probably why it shouldn't even exist. Did you see Warnock and Herschel Walker? I saw Warnock. Yeah.

You know what's crazy about the Warnock? You know what's crazy about the... I thought it was a joke when I saw it on social. Because I knew it was the 14th, but of course I was at BravoCon this weekend. So it wasn't until I got back. And when I saw it on social media, I thought it was a skit at first. Right. That is how comical it is.

I was like, oh, wait, he's trying to be funny. No, he really, that's really how it went down. But go ahead, speak on it. I'm going to be real with you. And this is the conundrum with the Republicans. The Republicans are so massive. Because they set the bar so low. Now, we already know that Herschel Walker didn't show up to another debate.

but they set the bar so low that anything short of him getting out there, taking off his shirt, oiling up, rising around on the ground, or some kid standing up and going, that's my father was going to be seen as a minor victory. I don't know why he did slightly better than I thought he was going to do. If I'm being honest, like he's obviously unqualified. Warnock is obviously a much better candidate than Herschel Walker is, but the reality is it's so complicated to be a liberal and so simple to be a Republican.

It's like it's their platforms are based around lies and fear. Right. On the other side, the liberals have this unenviable task of trying to govern for such a diverse base that you can sometimes get caught up and not what you're trying to accomplish, but who you're not trying to offend. And there were times when Warnock, who is a much better candidate than Herschel Walker, who everybody should vote for in Georgia, there were times when, it seemed like he wasn't quite giving straight answers. And Herschel Walker was, even though his answers were stupid and wrong. And to people who were watching,

they might have seen, uh, he's not as bad as we thought he was. I'm just being for real. I thought he didn't debate. I'm talking about the first debate. Oh, I'm like,

I'm like, I am so confused. Oh. Got you. Yeah. Okay. Just to clarify, I was like, wait a minute. I thought he just show up.

Yeah. Okay, sorry. Totally confused about that. I'm talking about the first debate. So look, Warnock won the debate. Sure. He won the debate. He is a better candidate for Georgia.

But watching it actually bummed me out because telling lies and running on fear and hate is so much easier. Of course it is. Because it's not basic. You can just say whatever you want. It's not based in it. You're not worried about being incorrect or who you might offend. You can just say whatever the hell you want to say. Who would you vote for if you were down there?

Man. I don't know. Since you're actually making me answer. I don't know. I don't know. People say that maybe. Donnie take that out. People say what?

Who are these folks? Donnie, take that out. Actually, leave it in. It'll be funny to make fun of them. Rachel, student loan forgiveness applications are now open through Beta Mode website. The Biden administration has said,

Rachel, it's time for you to get this money. Not me. What? Not you what? Not me. I wouldn't get the money. Are you mad about student loan forgiveness? Remember how bad?

No, I'm so for people getting it. I don't qualify and I'm not mad about that. You're not mad? No. Do you think they did enough? No, I think they could do way more. I mean, obviously loans are burdening people. Like, we talked all about this, but you're told, you and I disagree.

I don't know if you want to get into it. You're told you're supposed to go to school. It's going to lead to success and you're going to have all these things. And then all you have is this burden of loans and all this money. You're not nearly making enough to start paying back those loans. You're in such a debt. That's why, you know, you don't want. Pay the loans.

Okay, so Biden administration has opened up the application progress for Americans seeking student loan debt relief in a bedded period, starting Friday evening. Officials to toasting it in, allowed applicants to begin signing up before the website is formally unveiled later on this month. And August, President Biden announced his decision to cancel up to $10,000 in student loan debt for individuals making less than $125,000 a year. or as much as 20,000 for eligible borrowers who were also pale grant recipients. I think this is great. I think this is, I'm happy for everybody. Okay. That forgive them.

I think they should. I think they should forgive. Don't you think they should do more? They, I think, I think what they should do, forget about forgiving student loans. I think every single high school senior should be given $50,000. Oh, before they even go to college. Before they even go to college. before they even go to college.

It's called a, this is what I would run on, the make it rain grant. Every high school senior in America gets the making rain grant. $50,000. Don't worry about where the money's coming from or how it's going to affect the economy.

$50,000. So what about us who didn't get that? What about us who didn't get it? Like, is there going to be, do we get to get our $50? I'm glad that you brought this up. I'm down for the AARP, make it rain, have a good rest of your life. I'm not very much.

So when you're 55, $55,000. Stop. Make it rain. Obviously, I'm fucking around. You guys kick my ass over my student loan debt situation. I would just like to, look, I'd like to. Don't. It's done.

It's a lost cause. I would like to put a button on my thoughts on student loan, forget this. This was my only thought. I'll say again, guys, I am super happy for people that are experiencing having their loans forgiven. That is amazing. It will disproportionately affect black women who are highly educated. I'm happy about it. I'm happy.

I'm happy. I'm happy. I'm happy. the only thing that I am saying is that moving forward, can we also have conversations with our young Americans on what being saddled with loan debt might mean after you leave college? We obviously know that the lies that they told about the job market are just that lies. So now that we know what the truth is, can we be proactive about being forward facing and talking about not only lowering the cost and tuitions at colleges all over the place, including places like Texas, all right?

Lowering tuitions. We have to have three conversations. Lowering tuitions, taking the debt burden down, and about providing people with college. options that are more affordable that will stress them less. This sounds amazing. That's not what he said the first time. That is what I said the first time. I said taking all

you know what? I don't want to do it. That sounds great. You guys win. You guys win. What's the last time you've been to the Reddit? I looked at the Reddit. What was the conversation we had? I was reaching for the I was reaching for the I was reaching for the pretzels and I put my finger in the

hummus. Go ahead. Look it out. I don't want to. Why? First of all. I'll turn my head. First of all.

No, no, no. It's not about that. It's just it feels. I don't know. It looks gross. But the more you keep it on your finger like that, it's starting to look. It's not about licking. Can I have a chip?

You want a trip? I'm hungry. Not with that dirty finger, though. Not with that finger. There you go. It's not about, it's just I know that I shouldn't be. It got under my nail and that's not going to be good hummus. Y'all, do we have a, uh, I don't know, I don't know.

to eat that. Do we have a, can somebody bring me a, uh, uh, can someone bring me a, like a paper towel or something? These people will never come back. Who is this? Who's coming to bring the paper towel? Oh, thank you. Yeah, because I was trying to get to the chip. Oh my gosh. We would, I would have got, picked, gotten that for you. No, you can't get up. Thank you. I appreciate you, my man. It's disgusting. Oh, my gosh. Oh, look at this. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Well, guys.

Man. What the hell? Look at you guys. He probably needs some more just to put next to him. Yeah, just in case, you know. Thank you guys. Thank you very much. That's the kind of thing that Donnie should be doing. Oh, Donnie's laugh.

Did you hear him? Whoa. Whoa. Oh, Donnie didn't like that. You heard that, didn't you? I didn't. I definitely heard of that laugh. That was a nigger.

Are you crazy? Yeah. Like, Donna, everybody. I never heard that for me. I want everybody. I want you guys to send me videos on Twitter and Instagram of you recreating Donnie's laugh. Donnie's disson. Donnie's, uh-huh.

Huh. Huh-huh. That ain't going to be a hummus. What the fuck I'm talking about, Donnie? I guarantee you guys, Donnie is totally different at home. As much as you want. No, no, no. Well, now that you said that, but no, I was just more.

It was just in the space. Donnie, oh, yeah. They're not paying. Donnie is totally different at home. Donnie, do you- How you think he is at home? Do you Lord- I thought you weren't supposed to bring food

into the studio. I felt like that came up on the podcast before. How you know that's right? You don't even hear. What you're saying? What's your all doing about it, Donnie? Y'all brought this up.

You're just like you, you are just- You just accused, you were exactly what Kanye accused people of being. You are fed. I'm going to eat every time now. You know what I'm going to bring? Hey, I'm going to bring fucking burgers in this bitch.

They can't tell us nothing. I don't even have a little card to go up to the... Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. Wait till I get my mind, right. Sorry, if that was triggering for anybody. Yeah, it was. Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop

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Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about trim fire. Tap this ad to learn more about trim fire, including important safety information. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and make it a mess. You don't need weather tech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping.

Then you'd want a cargo liner. Or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about the. those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. Has, have the police been defunded?

No. Wrong. Despite defunding claims Los Angeles and other counties have increased their funding for the Popo. Los Angeles County Sheriff Alex Villeneueva has said local residents are in danger because defunding has consequences. Even though his agency's budget is up more than $250 million since 2019. He's not alone in suggesting to voters that crime is up because Democrats have defunded police agencies. Yet in many communities, the funding never happened.

ABC-owned television studios examine the budgets of more of the budget. in 100 cities and counties to find that 83%, 8.3 out of 10, are spending at least 2% more on police in 2022 than in 2019. Okay, Rachel, let's put a bow on the conversation around defunding the police. Okay. What are your beliefs on it? How do you imagine it working? What do you think the slogan, the term defunding,

has meant to the political discourse and do these numbers that suggests we haven't defunded shit. As a matter of fact, we've funded them. Change the slogan. We've funded them. What are your thoughts on all of this? Okay, there's a lot of questions.

I know. God damn it. Well, when the leader of the country doesn't believe in defunding the police, why would we expect to see any kind of changes in regards? Why would we expect to eat those the noise from the crackers? Why would we expect anything to be different?

The people who are holding up the signs in the streets, marching, protesting, boycotting to defund the police can only do so much. If the people with power don't want to stand behind that, not just the slogan, but what it actually means, if they don't want to do to push bills forward in Congress, that are going to hold the police accountable for things that they've done. Yes, in some ways, but in most ways, not.

Then why would we expect this type of report to look any different? In the most least surprising news, we've already, we've talked before about how police departments are so heavily funded. I'm not surprised at all that the funding has increased from 2019 to 2022. Hasn't Biden himself talked about giving the police more money? So why would we be surprised by this type of statistic? What do I think needs to happen? I know a lot of people talked about changing the name of the slogan. You could change the name of the slogan.

But as you already stated earlier on this podcast, the right, the conservatives, the Republicans are masters at flipping things on their head. So whatever you want to change it to, they're going to change the narrative to make, to fit, that we have to increase the police because crime is up. Even if it statistically doesn't support that, even if statistics show that they're getting more money than they had before, they will find a way for it to fit their narrative. As you've already said, they will spew lies,

nothing is founded in truth and reason, all to further their agenda, which is supporting the police, which we know they really don't because we all saw January 6th. They don't. I want to call somebody real quick. Can you guys hear Phil? What she said? Donnie, can you hear Phil?

Yeah, I can hear. You guys, I just called. Philip McHarris is live on Higher Learning the podcast right now. I have a question for you, Philip. Okay, what's going on? First of all, tell people who you are. Phil McHarris. I'm currently a postdoc at Princeton right now in Department of African-American Studies.

I'm also a writer, researcher. That's basically my spiel. And somebody who didn't know he was going to be on the podcast today, but you know. I know that. But you know what? Thank you for joining us, Phil. Thank you for joining us, Phil. For sure, for sure.

I thought that we would ask Phil about this, okay? Phil, defunding the police. When I say defunding the police to you, what does that mean to you? Well, it means to me it draws on from a. framework of invest, divest, which sort of predated some of the language around defunded. Defund essentially became the rallying cry. But when I hear what I think of is essentially divesting from policing, it can also be used in relation to other systems of profit or export of systems, but divesting from policing and reinvest in those resources and funds and other

kinds of entities and resources. So it could be community-based alternative. It could be community resources, things like schools, hospitals, health care. Basically, that is that there are a range of things that can keep people safe that doesn't look like policing. And actually the ideological and resource investment and stronghold that police have over communities is a part of what creates barriers for actually developing these sorts of systems and resources and alternatives that can keep people safe. How effective is throwing money at policing in reducing crime? It's not effective and there's no real correlation between resources or particular amounts of funding going towards policing and reducing or increasing crime. That's pretty robust in the literature. How right now, from someone who studied this, and I know I ambushed you, but this is fun.

this is how we talk. How effective are the police right now as entities that prevent crime, reduce harm in communities, and are able to investigate crime after the fact? I mean, you know, there's a couple ways to answer this question. The first thing, you know, I think it's important to note that crime is a particular metric. It's sort of reported and captured by police and other criminal legal system entities. And so if you go inside a lot of communities, the crime rate doesn't always correspond to how people feel about safety or other forms of safety

or things that might make people feel unsafe. So I think that's important to mention. But in a lot of metrics and barometers, the police aren't necessarily particularly helpful or affected that reducing or solving a lot of different kinds of violence. It's a harm. It's something, you know, well-known within a lot of communities. And, you know, a part of what I like to say is that, even if, say, you know, a metric goes up or down because of a particular form of police activity, right? Say police are standing somewhere.

And maybe that, you know, whatever form of, you know, conflict or violence or harm might not happen in that moment or in that place, you know, even though that doesn't always happen. But say, even if that is the case, the question is, is that are there other forms of alternatives or there other approaches that could potentially lead to an actual, you know, know, an actual approach of safety or an actual result in communities feeling more safe that doesn't rely on the system that we know is historically been violent, racist, classes, and doesn't do an effective job at solving these forms of violence on any way. So, last question. Yes. We were talking about police budgets and the fact that most of the police budgets have

actually gone up, right? Maybe I'd call Phil and give his take on this. So there's been pushback not just by Republicans on this issue, but by Democrats too. Obviously, President Biden says that we need to fund the police and use that money to better train police in de-escalation, better-trained police and harm reduction, better-trained police in ways not to kill American citizens. Defund the police has been insanely unpopular as a political slogan. It just hasn't worked. So I'll actually ask you, I asked two-pronged last question. Number one, what is the problem with funding the police?

And number two, should the term defund the police be moved away from to a term that is maybe better suited to explain what it is that abolitionists and guys like yourself are really looking to imagine when it comes to society? Right. I mean, so in terms of the first question, I think that, you know, essentially goes back to what you initially asked is that porn. and more and more resources into a system that historically, it doesn't do what it's said to do in the way that, you know, it's said to do it, but it also is responsible for widespread, continuous and longstanding violence against communities, in particular communities, especially, you know, going more and more money at that institution won't solve its problems. You know, if we think about it from a different perspective, if there's something that's

structurally unsound. Say there's a house that's like structurally unsound and it needs, what it needs is not like to throw money at, okay, let's put a wallpaper or, you know, let's change the carpet because it's structurally unsound. You know, it's fundamentally not something that can be repaired in that way. And so if you keep throwing money and resources at that thing, you know, which you'll end up having is something that, you know, it's more invested in, but it doesn't lead to the desired result. And to me, the desired result is to have a society where people can be safe and people can manage concerns around safety,

you know, with things that don't have the threat of potentially, you know, killing them or causing them harm in that way. And also getting at the root of some of these forms of violence. So I would say that in terms of the first question. The second question, you know, I think it's a, a complicated one, and I think that, you know, I've thought a lot about this, and there's a lot of different ways to answer. You know, a part of, you know, in one way, the whole country began talking about defund. And it wasn't a new concept, that this strategy wasn't new. And so in

one way, there was a certain kind of political thrust that the language injected inside, you know, the national discourse. And, you know, somebody can say if there was another slogan, would that have happened in that way. You know what I mean? The other thing, though, is that I actually don't think it's the slogan. I think it's just the strategy and the approach in general. It gets a lot of, you know, reactionary responses because there's an ideological sort of commitment and stronghold that people have

or that the police and society has in relationship with systems of punishment. And so, you know, I think regardless of what it's called, I think like people just have certain kinds of ideological investments, and that's the actual, when things sort of brush up against it, that's actually the issue. Because people, you know, people sort of, it became very clear what people meant. I actually don't think it's about the slogan.

I think it could have potentially been called something else, and it could have had a similar, you know, people were saying, like abolish the police. I don't know, you know. That's what Rachel says. Also people saying, like, invest in community resources and institutions and alternatives to safety and divest from systems of punishment and harm.

Like, that's not really, you know, right. Like, what I'm not going to go say that, you know, in every context. And so it's kind of like, I think it's more about this strategy and the ideological commitments have to police and prisons to punishment more so than it is to the strategy. The question, though, is that how do communities build power and push for these sorts of community, you know,

resources and alternative safety? And in some ways, I do think that the needle up was pushed in that way. But how the communities build power to create that? Because what we've seen is that the reactionary responses from the state, from, you know, people across political aisles has been very strong. And it's created a lot of sort of, you know, police expansion and police sort of being emboldened in different ways with resources and, you know, elsewhere. So I think, you know, I think it's a complex.

look at a question. And I think the question just becomes like, how do communities build power to really sort of create the word that we want to see, which, you know, is, to me, one that's safe, but safe from not only sort of community forms of harm and violence, but also sort of police violence and systems of punishment harm. That was Philip McHarris. He is the CEO of Donda Enterprises, the right-hand man to Kanye West. Yeah, like, he, like, he, look, I'm glad that. I'm glad that. the work that you guys are doing over there over at Donda, Phillip.

But now, Phil, I'll hit you when I leave. I just wanted to rather than give my take on that, I wanted people to hear where I get my ideas on it from. So I'll hit you later, brother. Phil was ready. Thank you, Phil. Be good, thank you, thank you. Phil is the man.

Phil is the fucking man. We don't have very much podcast left. Look, animals are doing their things. Do you want to talk about the animals? I even sent you something. So you know they're doing their thing when I send it to you. Yeah. So which animal story would you like to talk about?

We got three animal stories. We got the bull that jumped into the stands at the bullfighting event. Obviously, I'm on the bull's side. We got billions of snow crabs disappearing from the waters around Alaska. Yeah, I don't want to talk about that. And then we got video surfacing of a mountain climber fighting off a boat. You see that? Look at that.

The bear came back. The bear came back. And he's filming. He's filming. One's got to go. One's got to go. Let me tell you something right now. Let me tell you something right now.

Let's do the bull. Well, we already have to, we already talk about the bear. We got to talk about the bear. Okay, talk about the bear. I have a new name. Four? This period. Okay.

Van Lathan, Animal Agent. I'm an agent, a double agent for the animals. I am masquerading as a human. I'm really mountain lion. I am here to subvert. You know what? When I announced my initiative... We're waiting.

You don't understand that this is happening. When I announced my initiative at the beginning of December, I hope, I'm working on this. I love animals I do too Rachel I don't think you love animals I do too

You saw me look at I saw me look over at I'm so hungry I'm sorry I don't think you love I don't think you love animals I have animals I have animals

Dogs don't count That's not true Donnie Because no My dogs are rescue dogs I love animals Both came from the streets That's so

That's so fucked up that you do me like that No If you feel guilty That's on you I didn't say anything I merely spoke facts Donnie Copper was literally rescued from the streets

Do you think Rachel loves animals Yeah I can't Yeah I can't say no This fucking guy I don't know I always say she likes animals Love is a strong word

Because you were very pro-killing the snake, but you do, maybe you love certain animals. Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying. You love, you like or love certain animals. You don't consider snakes animals. Which is why I don't want to talk about the crabs as well. That's not, they shouldn't even be in our segment. The crabs? I really only want to talk about mammals. Crab. See what I'm saying? Crabbs are a very important part of the ocean ecosystem. And if the crabs are disappearing

From around 8 billion to 1 billion up there in Alaska, that's a huge, huge deal. And it's unexplained. No one knows how it's doing. No one official said it may be overfishing. They said it's not, they're saying it's not caused by humans. It's something else that's going on. Something in the water. It could be something in the water.

What if the crabs, though, they just fucking finally. figured the shit up. Because the only thing I will say about the crabs is they have been getting caught the same way for generations. And I would think that, you know what I'm saying? Couldn't you say that about fish too? Yeah, fish is, okay, so this is why I say fish is a little different. Because sometimes you catch fish just by like, so you know what happens when the fish

come up the river for the bears. The fish are horny. You're trying to get to spawn. Anybody can make a mistake when they're horny like that. We all know that as humans, right? So the fish sometimes, they just, the crabs, come on, craps. It's a big thing. You get some big metal crate.

Just stay away from the crate, man. The fish is different. You throw the thing on top of there. It looks like an insect. The fish is like, what the fuck? You know? And then all of a sudden, he's out. But the crab is a big metal.

Stay out the fucking, stay out the crap thing. But no, seriously, I'm on the side of the craps. But this video with the bear, I'm going for the bear. I haven't had, I haven't seen one animal video recently. where I'm going for the human. I don't want the human to get killed, but... Then what do you want? If you say you're going for the bear,

what else do you want? A scratch? A push? So they learn their lesson? So they learn that the mountain belongs. This is my problem. The mountain belongs to the bear. It's the bear's home.

You up there with a camera, fucking with the bear, and you caught that bear on the wrong fucking day. the wrong day. I'm going to be Van Lathen Animal Agent. You know there's a movie about this. What is a movie called?

Ace Ventura, Pet Detective. No, that's different, man. Do you see the similarity? It's not. It's not. Van Lathen Animal Agent. Van Lathen Animal Agent. I am going to be, I'm going to work,

I'm going to do stuff to where people think that I'm working on behalf of humans. and it's going to be on behalf of animals. I see this bear. I think about the trauma that this bear had to go through fighting off this mountain lion who's in his crib. His or her crib. God, cut that fucking music off.

I can't take you seriously with the music in the background. You guys, I'm being, okay, let me be serious for a second. Hold on. We have to, let me be serious for a second. We have to, I'm looking around, I've been looking at all kinds, Stats. You need to stop.

On deforestation. I've been looking at stats on displacement. Mountain lion everywhere. What's going on with Mountain Lion? Somebody sent me a very beautiful picture of a baby mountain lion. It was great. Baby Mountain Lion. I love it.

We got to help the animals. Listen, I will agree with you. When you climb that mountain and you get into their territory, you enter at your own risk. I agree with that. Now, would I say I'm rooting for the bear to harm the human? Not, I don't want to see nobody I'm more, I'm very bothered though That he kept the camera on

Like you weren't serious about your life If you were trying to capture it Like when you have dropped the camera It looked like it might have been on a stick I would have been fighting for my... He wasn't serious about living He was more serious about that moment I got to say something else

What? Before we go Our answer says this is in Africa knew how to live with the animals man They know how to live in symbiosis So that the natives here You know how to live in symbiosis with the animals, man.

We knew how to live and you know, the natives here called the deer the buffalo brother. They like, they connected. I'm being for real. I know they did. I'm just laughing at it. They live with the buffalo. They hang out with the buffalo. Sure, they got

to use the buffalo for certain different things, but they respect the buffalo. White man, come over here, no more buffalo. White man shoot a goddamn lion. White man. white man said a bear trap for the bear all right this i'm telling you all it is hatred for the animals all of this treating the animals poorly donnie this was all right fine just play the fucking we got we got new music for the animal segment man man like animal agent this is not of us man

this is we're not like we're not supposed to be like this black people we got to we got to be on the side of animals man i'm just being serious i'm this is going to be the same part of my life. What's your calling? I... Okay. And by the way, I'm not talking about going to some tiger sanctuary. You're never going to see me in some tiger sanctuary holding a poor baby tiger that really

wants to be out there. Look, I know that we have to have, you know, I don't know. I'm still building up my knowledge on it, about zoos and all of that stuff. I'm talking about really for the animals. Whatever, I'm sick of it. Um, I am. No very serious question of the week because I'm pissed off now. All right, I'm very upset.

Are you looking forward to going to your premiere? It's not a premiere. It's a red carpet. It's just a red carpet. So let's talk about you. What serious questions are you going to ask at the red carpet? Are you going to ask Zoe Kravitz about the Twitter thing? You should ask me.

No, I'm going to try to keep it light. These women are being honored as doing fabulous things and representing themselves in a beautiful way in Hollywood. I'm going to keep it light, Van. I'm going to keep it light. Serious questions. I get to do all that here. Remember, there's high learning Rachel.

Yeah. There's Bachelor Rachel. Bachelor. And there's Extra Rachel. Extra Rachel. You're extra all the time. Like you, do you, do you know what you should ask? You should ask them something off the wall.

Can I get to pick one question and do you have to ask? Absolutely. Okay. Just one off the wall question for women, let me think. You have to ask all of them. Give me your most embarrassing wig moment. Whig? Yeah.

That's assuming. I don't think any other women that I named. They wore wigs before. Okay. They all wore wigs. That's not going to get asked. I thought you would come better than that. I don't know.

I'm really blanking. Ask them. Ask them would they... Damn, I'm blanking, man. Because the stuff I want to ask is so subversive. Try me. It's like, I want to know if they had to date one rapper, who would it be? I want to know if...

They eat pork. Take your thinking caps off. Take them off because Vans, he threw that shit out the window when he started talking about the bear took it off. I'm so upset. Yeah, Rachel, go ahead. Take it off. Take your thinking caps off. But don't stop thinking I am Rachel Lindsay.

I'm Van Lytton. Ask them if they like fried. Ask them if they eat. Ask them if they ever heard of Chitlins. This is a good question. I'm not there to embarrass me. And what if they have? Ask them if they ever heard of Chitlin's before.

And what if? And they say yes. I want to know if Ann Hathaway has ever heard of Chitlins. And she says yes? Ask you if she's ever eating a Chitlin. And if she would eat a Chitlin. I've never eaten a Chitlin. I haven't eaten it either.

I smelled it once and I said, y'all niggas on your own. But, but, but, okay, bye, we got to go. Donnie, take us out with the music.