Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Garcelle Beauvais on Persevering in Hollywood, Plus Revisiting the Isimemen Etute Case With Jarrett Hill

Episode Date: June 14, 2022

Van and Rachel react to Matt James revealing his frustrations surrounding his ‘Bachelor’ experience (15:05), before welcoming model, author and actress Garcelle Beauvais to discuss a career spanning almost 40 years (30:05). Plus, journalist and co-host of the ‘FANTI’ podcast Jarrett Hill joins to revisit the conversation around Isimemen Etute’s acquittal (1:15:25). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guests: Garcelle Beauvais and Jarrett Hill Producers: Trudy Joseph and Donnie Beacham Jr. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Carl Renan is on. It is I, Van Lakin, Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. Well, well, well, Rachel, Matt James. No, no plan. Are we going to dismiss with the pleasantries again?

We're not dismissing with the pleasantries. I just want to say that at the top. We can still have pleasantries. But isn't it ironic? Pleasantries. How was your weekend? I had a really good weekend. I took a Saturday for me.

I went and I got a massage, a lot of self-care. I got these feet taking care of. It's been a minute. And then I just came to the house. Very few Saturdays that I've had to just been able to just enjoy the house. Had a girlfriend came over. We had music. We just listened to drinks, laid out in the pool, and just chill.

Oh. Oh. Huh. It was not a party. I told my girlfriend, she's about to leave and go out the country. And I was like, yes, you can come over and use the pool. Super chill. And then Sunday, I was in the Pride parade.

And I got to tell you, it was so much fun. I was with Project Angel Food, who's been in the community for 33 years, feeding this community. If you're not familiar with them, they started out feeding those that were HIV positive because people were too afraid to be around them. It's kind of like a Mills on Wheels. They deliver meals, but then they tailor the mills specific to people's dietary needs. Now they've expanded past just HIV clients, but then also just those that are sick and shut in

that need food, deliver to them. So it's really a beautiful thing that they do. I've been involved with them for a couple of years, so I was able to ride in their car, represent them. But it was so great to see so many people out and about cheering for equality, representation. there were like everyone was represented but I loved seeing so many kids and I got to tell you there was this one moment where I love to see kids at a parade I was wearing a tutu I'd see little girls they have their tutus like I was close enough to be able to speak to people and I had a microphone

so they could hear me so I like to talk to the kids there's this one boy he couldn't have been older than like 10 and and you know like in t-shirt kind of like basketball shorts and I'm waving And I'm like, hi, happy pride. And I guess, like, he can see my hands. Like, right? He could see my nails. And he's waving to me. And all of a sudden, he looks at me.

And he puts his hand down to show me his nails are like mine. And it was just like, and he had like, like, similar colors. So I start showing him my nails. He's showing me his mom's like cheering him on. Like, go take a picture with him with her. But then the car was moving too fast. And it was just. So you didn't take the picture.

Don't focus on the wrong thing. For me, that moment stood out to me more than any other moment just because I was like, that kid felt safe enough to show me that we were a lot. Like he was so excited to show me his hands. And I just thought, I wonder, I don't know what school is like for him. I don't know if he can wear his nails at school. But he just felt just to see like, that's what this parade is for for someone, a child to see themselves, someone that's like them, to see themselves celebrated and,

loved and appreciated by all these people and that they're beautiful and equal to everyone else and represent it. And I just like that moment stood out to me. The kid felt safe enough to be himself in that moment. And, oh, almost cried. But I just, it just, I loved being there. I was honored to be able to represent Project Angel Food and to be an ally to the community. So it was great.

Made my whole weekend. That's amazing. That's amazing. You? I didn't I didn't do anything like that were you working I got back Saturday and I slept all day Saturday

and then I got back me and Bozeman was just hanging out and I ordered a pizza and a little comfort food I ate the pizza not all of it but then I gave Bozeman the crust Boseman was just hanging out he's like hey dad I miss you I'm like that's the fuck I'm talking about a little bastard you little fucking awesome dog

and then Sunday I boxed I boxed around a little bit. Yeah. Box today. Just hanging out, you know. Just getting,

getting my, getting my bearings back. Try to get a haircut. Couldn't do it. Got today. You know what I'm saying? Angel food. Project Angel food?

In the past. Well, no, not Project Angel food. I'm moving on. Angel food is a racist term. Not Project Angel Foods is great. But Angel food is a racist term. I don't even know if I've ever heard anyone just say

angel food, but. Angel food cake? I'm not familiar with it. You've never had Angel food cake before? I wouldn't even know what it looks like. You could line up four cakes in front of me. I wouldn't know which one was Angel food cake.

Donnie, Donnie, are you there? Yeah, I'm here. You've heard of Angel's food cake, right? No, I haven't. You've never heard of Angels food cake. It always makes me feel so validated when you call on Trudy or Donnie and they're with me. Just in an agreement with me.

It's like a really light and flussy. It's like not my vibe, but. Okay. What color is Angel, what color is Angels food cake? It's like, it's light. It's like the color of cake.

It's white. Yeah. Well, now let me ask you a question. What color is devil's food cake? Isn't Devil's Food Cake have all that shit in it? It's a deep brown. It's black.

Is it? I've never even heard of Devil's Food Cake. Angel food cake. Let me look this up. black and white white food cake is angelic and pure and for the niceness devil's food cake is for you niggers isn't it just chocolate cake I'm looking at it isn't it just chocolate cake kind of kind of why we got to be why chocolate got to be the devil I never heard why white got to be the angels you never heard of angels food you never heard of devil's food cake either so there you go how

How in the world, man? But Donna, you too. Dona, you're a straight buster. How do you ain't never heard of no Angels food cake before? And Angel's food cake just looks like, kind of like a pound cake. Basically like a like a vanilla cake, Angel's Foodcake. I never had a pretty hair, never made no Angels food cake? No, pretty hair didn't make an Angel's food cake.

She makes a great pound cake, a great coconut cake. Coconut cake. Good sweet. No, my dad does. Sweet potato pies. Coconut is hit or miss for people. She makes it for my dad. Is Angel Hair pasta racist?

Let's move on to the big deal of the day. Donny brings up something. Is Angel Hair a pasta? What are the most racist foods? What foods are the most racist? Brazil. I was about to say. Nigatoos.

It's the number one. It's the number one. Oh, by the way, on the show today, we have both Jared Hill from the Fantai podcast and Garcel Bouvet, who we have. Great conversations with both of them. Is it Boo-Ve or Bovay? I'm saying Bo-Vey. You kept saying Bo-Vay, just to let you know.

You said Bo-Vay. I said-V-V-A. She's amazing. I was intimidated by her otherworldly beauty. But Angel Hapasa, I'm not sure about it, Donnie. That's a good question. I don't think so. I don't think so.

Trudy has a story for everybody. Trudy has a story. You do, Trudy? I do. This is a surprise. I didn't even tell you it before. So, it's just an update on fighting. So I didn't get in a fight, but I came really, really close.

So my aunt is in town, and she's really crazy in, like, the life of the party and all that stuff. She's 71. And we were out at Mama Cordillo on Saturday, and she decided she wanted to keep the fun going. So we went to West Hollywood. So we went to Tom Tom, Tom. and we were sitting, I don't know if you guys have ever been there, but the bar is in the middle

and then these tables on either side. Okay. So we're sitting close to like the entrance. There's one table we're at the entrance. There's another group that's sitting at the table. We're just getting drinks, whatever. There's people at the bar. And then this girl decided that she was going to start dancing to the music.

So as she is twirling, she is spraying perfume, and she chokes out the whole room. So nobody could breathe. My aunt's 71. She's choking. Everybody's choking. And so I'm sitting the furthest away from the table. My cousin's back is to the table.

So my cousin takes her jacket and she's like waving the air. Like why would you like choke everybody out with your perfume? And so the girl like scoots by my cousin because there's like a mirror on the wall. And she was like ghetto ass bitches never smelled. Don't know what expensive perfume smelled. So my cousin is from Memphis. Okay. this is my country cousin.

She turns around and it's up and his step. So she's cussing the girl out. And then she, like, wanted to jump bad, but she didn't all the way jump back. She was waiting for her friends to kind of jump in. So there was a guy that was sitting there and his back was to my cousin. And I thought he was going to pull her hair. So I had to stand up, go around the side. My cousin pushes the girl.

And then we're just up in it, cussing them out. But then they walked away. Also, Ken, Lisa Vanderpump's husband was there. And I was like, I ain't got to. times get kicked out of Tom Tom and dance the life behind jaw ghetto bitches so we didn't is that what you said I didn't catch that part oh sadder to say no saw that that that was me y'all me and my cousin my country cousin from men it sound like it was just cuz no it was me too it was me too because if my cousin's son I was going to have to fight but whole time I was like

oh my god is this it is this the moment so to be to be where it was used throwing your faces to be and nobody got swung on y'all got swung on y'all got played my cousin I was far I didn't know because I didn't know that got to the end so my cousin like ran back to

hold on for a second hold on for a second let me let me get Ebony on the phone real quick Trudy let's see how this same let's see how the same situation would have gone you just fight you just we this is this is the journey

we're an inch closer I might step in my first you thought too long that's why your cousin pushed her You're an innocent. Let's see what Emily would have done real quick.

Hopefully she picks up the phone. My sister's the most violent person I know in the world. She's got a viable. The last month customer you're calling. It's not a viable. I'm going to $1,000 right now.

What's wrong with Evan? She ain't fighting nobody. Except the phone company. What the fuck? I was like I guess, hold on. I can't, she can't go out.

It's not going to have to twice in a row. It's not going to happen twice in a row. It could never happen. It might have been. Ebony, you almost embarrassed yourself. Let me ask you a question real quick. First of all,

you're on the podcast. Hi, you're on higher learning. Hi, so I was telling everyone, like Trudy got in a situation where she went to a bar and this girl was spraying perfume everywhere

and they started trying to fan the perfume because they didn't like it. And then the girl looked at them and said, ghetto bitches never smelled expensive perfume before. If someone looked at you and called you a ghetto bitch to your face, what would you do?

I'd like to shit out of him. Yeah, that's what I thought. I'm probably not to shit on her because first of all, you shouldn't be sprayed in the club that's trashy, go to the bathroom, go outside. But you're going to say ghetto bitch. I'm ignorant, though, so don't listen to me.

Right. I'm angry. I don't have the intelligence to deal with that. I'll probably turn around and say your mammy a ghetto bitch. Right. You're mammy. Talk your shit. Yeah.

It's going to happen. So look, this is what we're going to do. Put you on the first thing smoking out here. Trudy's going back. Okay. This girl's not getting away with this. Nobody. Nobody treats my little.

sister, her Trudy's 71 year old auntie was there with them and they got your youth this way. Ebony. I don't know. We need, we're going to bring you out here. We're going to push a button on these people, right? We need you. The Terminator. Look, I'm, listen, I'm ready.

Yeah. I'm going to go up in there, you know, back and we're ready to fight just in general. Yeah. You know, it's fine. Yeah, trauma. All your trauma. Think about all the bad things that have happened to us as kids. Trauma.

Think about your trauma. What's your biggest trauma, Evan? Tell him. My biggest trauma? Yeah, what's your biggest trauma? What's your greatest trauma in life? Tell him. Yeah, no, tell them.

Get deep. But I would say... Okay, I don't want to know. I don't want to know. I'm just a joke. It's a joke. I don't talk about your trauma, baby. I love you to death.

Happy birthday. I love you so much. Is her birthday today? No, no, no, no, no. Her birthday was the eighth. Like, like, don't, don't, don't tell about your trauma, baby. Don't tell her. Ebony's a...

fucking Gemini. Ebony, Ebony is the Gemini of all Gemini's. She is a Jim Men I. You know what it means. Did you go to that party in Baltimore? Okay, bye-bye. I said Ebony, this flyer for this party in Baltimore

where it was like, it's free with a strap on, but like if you come without a strap, you got to pay like $15. She didn't go. All right. I was so ready. You see what I mean, Trudy? Trudy don't say shit.

Just get busy. You know I got to have my people my club when they go down. See, Trudy doesn't fight. Trudy doesn't find. The only thing I don't like about Trudy, though, is that like, I feel like if Trudy fights once, she's not going to be able to stop herself. There's going to be too many fights. She's going to be like Will hunting or something like that.

We don't have to bail her out of jail. I feel like once Trudy lets the anger go. Yeah. All right, we're going to take a break now. On the other side, it's time for a weenie roast. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Trimphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks,

followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tramphia, proper training is required. Tramphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramfaya today.

Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Tramphiatoradio.com. The playoffs are here and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul Predicts. Predict the spread, total points, and even the game winner. Sign up and get a $25 bonus. Offered by Fandul Prediction Markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant, 18 plus. Bonus is non-withdrawable and expires seven days after receipt. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool.

Restrictions apply. See terms at fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. All right. It's the big deal of the day. I'm not sure how it happened. Matt James explained how the bachelor failed him and his story. You know what? Rachel.

No, I did not put this topic in the rundown. Rachel? No. Rachel, Rachel, how could I, this is your jam? What's going on with Matt James and the Bachelor, Rachel? First of all, I need you to start using past tense when you refer to me in the Bachelor. It was my jam.

I'm retired. Fair enough. So for those of you who don't know, Matt James wrote a book. It's called First Impressions and something else. I'm not sure the full title. I really wish, this was a time where I wish we had him on the podcast because I have more questions than I do answers in regards to this, but there are a lot of revelations that have come out, and he's done a couple of interviews, and he has been speaking about his time

on The Bachelor, and he's disappointed. He doesn't like the way that he was portrayed. He doesn't like the way that people have talked about him. He feels that a lot of important and meaningful and relevant conversations were left out of, away from the viewers. He said he had these conversations, but the show chose not to show them. He thought that the show would basically promote him, almost as if they would show all the things that he's doing off camera that are successful and how ambitious he is. And instead, they showed him as what a lot of viewers said was boring and bland. He said that some viewers even call him an Uncle Tom.

He says that he had a van. He said that he had a very, he said that he had a very meaningful man. Man, man. He said that he had a very meaningful conversation for over an hour with Chris Harrison, and he poured his heart out to him about all the pressures that he was facing because he was the first black bachelor. And he talked about, he said that, van, come back. He said that he had an immense amount of pressure that he felt being the first black bachelor, and it was unfair to him and he, you know,

he spoke with Chris Harrison about it. That wasn't really shown at Great Lane. He just talks about the true hymn didn't come out on the show. And he's disappointed on that. And he didn't realize he was the first Black Bachelor. But once he did, he thought this was a chance for diversity and for the show to expand in that way and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And, you know, this is him now telling his story.

First of all, hilarious. I don't know why that was funny. The way did you put that? He said people thought he was in the huckle talk. That's what he said. Okay, I don't know why he put that. Okay. Secondly, a lot of people listening to this right now

would expect me to pile on Matt James right here. No. I know what this feels like. I know what it feels like to be in a room, a production, a television, with all white people, not understanding the landscape of what's going on in there, not understanding how you make your voice heard in there, and not understanding how you represent your authentic self there.

The only difference between me and Matt James is number one, I could never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, but there's another difference. But there's another difference. I was on this show for nine years and was able to perfect finding my voice and was able to perfect the art of direct and engaging resistance. You resist them, you call them out, but you make it TV.

You do it in a way that's so compelling. To tell him someone fuck you is one thing. telling somebody fuck you with flair is a skill right it's a skill Matt was only on the show for a short amount of time pretty much if you're on a show that short amount of time you are what they say you are like if you're on a show for as many years as I was on TMZ at some point your personality is going to break through they just can't edit you that much at some point your person

but if you've got what are you guys on there for three months something like that. Less than that, but sure. They have an inordinate amount of power to edit you in a way that makes you look the way they want you to. And in this situation,

they probably have so much riding on their cash cow of a show that they're not going to put anything in there that makes you feel, makes you look subversive or like you have questions

or like you have concerns. Anything that doesn't play with the status. as quote, they'd be apt to take it out. So I actually feel mad here. I feel what he's talking about. You know, I know people were expecting me to get the, you don't.

I didn't say that. Yeah. That was a, that was that hmm. So what was your, I mean, my opinion matters significantly less than yours. No, it doesn't. And I think people will be interested in the fact that you didn't pile on, even though you, you came into this segment talking about it's time to do the weenie roast.

term we hasn't been used in a while I have I understand everything that you're saying and I have been in those spaces in real life and I've been in that space on this in this very franchise as the bachelor's my issue with not just Matt James

but other Bachelor contestants and leads is that when they come off the show they become revisionist. And they like, and they see things in a way that they didn't necessarily happen because they're either trying to promote themselves in a better light,

or they're getting the reviews and comments from other people. And so they're more so trying to have a narrative that fits or combats what people say about them. I believe, here's my thing. Matt James' season was different in particular because of the woman that he chose and her past actions

and the allegations that were in her. So he had to deal with that as well, with Rachel, who he's still with and they seem to be as happy as can be. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Like they're together now? Yes. So some of these things with Matt James,

exactly, some of these things with Matt James are, we're watching how, you what you did on the show, how you were in the finale. I'm taking conversations that I had with you off camera and it doesn't add up with some of the things that you're now saying in this book. I get it. You got to sell books. I get it.

You want to paint a certain narrative and you want to combat some of the things that people say about you. But then you've been in these spaces before. Rachel, you've been in these spaces before. Would you have had that conversation with your dad on camera? No. Exactly. Fuck no.

But also, though, just to be real with you, I wouldn't have had that conversation on my dad with my dad on camera, but there would have been no opportunity to. Like. Exactly. Yeah.

But that's what I'm saying. There's a difference. There's a difference. And so I do believe, and I do know that Matt had conversations with some of the black women about race. But to my knowledge, from what I,

to know from the inside, you didn't have an in-depth conversation with Rachel. And I believe you publicly admitted. that as well, which is why you ran into some of her ignorance and didn't know certain things about her or she wasn't as educated about black culture or didn't understand certain things because you didn't have those conversations. And it's fine if you've had them now. But don't try to go back and act like you did when you didn't. And I know you didn't have those conversations with her. And that's, again, I don't want to be redundant, but it's fine if y'all are having

them now. It's fine if she's learned now. but you're trying to, I personally feel like some of it is a bit of a stretch because you're trying to combat some of the negative feelings people have about you. You also said people, the show didn't show his personality, you know, we did see it come out. You were TikTok dancing in the middle of a date. You were showing somebody your dinosaur backpack on a date. You know what I'm saying? Like, we saw it.

The dancing has always been a concern. We did see his personality. But I will say this, Matt James came into the show, had never been on it before. So I think his expectations about how this show work were different. The show is not about promoting you and showing how ambitious or successful you are. The show is about showing your relationship with these women

and their relationship with each other. That's just the show. That's just the way the show works. So I get you being disappointed if that's what you thought it was going to be, but that's just not how the show is. So the good thing is he's happy now, with who he wants to be with.

That's the good news. Some even labeled him an Uncle Tom. That's funny, man. That's funny. But like, I just,

I just, I just, I just, but you know what, man, did we cover his season? Or did we not? We didn't cover his season.

But like, we talked about it. We do. No, of course we did. Because we talked about it because the whole winning thing is Matt James,

right? Right, we did. So we had to talk about. We wouldn't have, we talked about it. We have talked about that conversation he had with Chris Harrison about how problematic that was. But now I have questions, though.

Now I have questions, though. Now I have questions about whether or not that conversation was actually longer. Of course it was longer. It's a two-hour show. So what I'm saying is read the article. He poured out his, poured out his heart for an hour, over an hour about the pressure he feels to pick a black woman. For an hour with Chris Harrison. And this is, and we said,

and we said this. Did we know about soup kitchen at this point? I don't think we knew about soup kitchen. But that, it didn't matter. Just like he can't understand. Why are you talking to him for an hour about the pressures you felt as a black man to pick a black woman? It's just, who else is there to talk to, though, is what I'm saying.

I didn't have, I didn't talk to Chris Harrison about pressure I felt to feel. Matter of fact, I was actually broke down about, um, on the show about the pressures that they were putting on me, not to choose a black man, but how they did a bad job of casting with men on the show.

And when they brought in Chris Harrison to talk to me, I went like this. I said, what's he going to do? I'm mad. I was like, what is he going to talk to me about? Did you and Brian have this conversation about race that you say that,

right? Okay, so I didn't see it. Well, no, they show. Well, 2020, 2020 didn't happen,

but I did talk about it. I did it with Nick when I was on The Bachelor. I always said, have you dated a black woman? have you brought a black woman home what is my mom asked those questions pretty hair was on the show she asked those questions um my i think my sister asked those questions when i was on the show i asked all the guys have you dated the black woman have you brought a black woman home how would your how does your family respond to me i asked those same questions on my show they made me talk to one of the

guy and all his i talked about this he had black friends with white wives and i got pissed off when they made me have that conversation so i just think i think it's easy easy to look at the show from a different lens when you're out of it versus in it. But I got to recognize the fact that there is some, he's being bit of a revision. You think he's capping. I think that he's exaggerating some of it. I think that he did have conversation. I know he had conversations with some of the black women about it, but not the woman that he was going to pick.

He didn't ask the right questions. Okay. Before we move off of this, because I think this is interesting that I'm defending Matt James and you're you're roasting, roasting. I'm not roasting. The Rachel, what's her name again? Rachel, you could tell. What's her name? What was her name for real? No, it was Rachel.

It was Rachel Kirkano. Kirkano. Who is Rachel? Oh, Rickettel is Tiger Woods. That's why I'm laughing. That's why I'm laughing when you said it. I was like, are you being funny? Rachel Kirkano, Rachel Carcano. Rachel Carcano. It's got a you could tellish kind of thing to it. So Kirkano.

Do we think that Kirkano, okay, Kirkano went to what was like a slave auction or something like that, right? She went to a, what did she go to again? No, damn, I cannot remember this. She went to an antebellum party. Antibal party where they celebrate the old South. They dress up like slavers and shit. Um

if you were Matt James and there was a guy on there Brian listen Brian you really like Brian right had Brian gone to a party like that do you feel like you could have still picked him It would have had to go down in a different way If he went to the party if he was ignorant I would have said like I wouldn't have been able to say

Hey did you go to an antebellal party right? Like we can't expect Matt James to ask that question But once I found out taking you back, Rachel never came out and publicly said anything until after the whole Chris Harrison thing. So for like two months, it had been out there. I'd be damned at the man that I chose

stayed silent. Like, you would have had to come out and say something. I would have been like, we had these conversations. I dropped the ball. I didn't ask the right thing. So it would depend with the responses. I'm not going to say I would have left him,

but he would have had to respond in a different way for me. All right. Look, this is a topic that we actually broach with our next guest Garcel Beauvais. We're going to talk a little bit about intermission in this as well as her fantastic book as well as what was it like being a black actress

in the 90s and of course some really good stuff about her current tenure on the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. Our interview with Garcel Bovay is up next. Guys, big moment in my life right now. Big moment in the podcast life, but big

moment in my life right now. You had a chance to interview somebody who I've admired for a very long time, Garcel Bouvet joins us on higher learning today. And this is a big deal. This is a big deal. Garcel, why do you think this is such a big deal for me if you had to guess? I don't know, maybe a crush when I was on the J.B.

Fox show. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Fancy. I'm one of those moments where we, we, like, It was one of those moments where you look at the TV and we're like, I didn't know they made him like that. Damn. Okay. I got to tell you, this is my first time seeing him fan out like this, by the way.

Oh, my God. I am flattered because I know you guys talk to everybody, so I'm really flattered. So you have had an amazing career. Actress, television, personality, author. You have a book right there is your book behind him. you right there. Why don't you tell us the name of the book a little bit about what made you want to write a book? The book title is Love Me as I am and it felt like it was the right time to do it. You know, I feel good personally, professionally and I thought if this is the moment to sort of

tell my story and tell it, you know, from my point of view, from my experience and hopefully people will get along and go on this journey with me. I'm not done. But up until now, I felt like it was a moment in time. A lot of revelations in the book, which I have right up here, by the way, one of the things that you reveal is you talk about people from your past, one of them being that you passed, not passed up on, or maybe you did. Did you say no to Michael Jordan? Was that what that was? I didn't know any better. I didn't know any better.

I was modeling in New York. I went for a fitting at Essence Magazine, and they said tomorrow, you're working with Michael Jordan. And by the way they said it, I knew I was supposed to know this person, but I did not know. So I,

but I was like, wow, great, because, you know, I didn't know, but I could tell I was supposed to. So I got home later that day, and I called to my mom, and I was talking to my mom, and I said, know tomorrow I'm shooting with Essence, and I'm working with Michael Jordan, and my brother in the background heard my mom say Michael Jordan.

He was like, what? Listen, there was no Google. I wasn't watching basketball. I was dancing and being, you know, girly. And so the next day, he showed up, and he was, you know, just a professional and sweet and kind to every single person. And we spent the day shooting together. and by the end he had asked me out and we went out. He showed me how to hit some golf balls.

I don't even know how that happened. And he invited me to Hawaii and I was like, no, no. Garcel, I mean, wait, for context, what year was this? Had he won championships at this point? I don't even know. Garcel. I'm going to be honest with you, Garcel. The year is pretty important to this story.

For a couple of reasons. Like, is this the 80s or the 90s, myself? Don't come from me. Everyone? Oh, I was wondering. He was so sweet. He was really sweet in the gentleman, and, you know, I messed up. I fumbled.

Totally fine. Can I ask a follow-up question really quickly, man? Recently on, I don't know if you watch the other housewife franchises, but on Atlanta, it was a big topic of. conversation because someone said, hey, let's go around the table and talk about the most famous person who's hit on you. And all the ladies went around and said that. Is Michael Jordan for you the most famous one who's hit on you?

No. Oh, that, okay. Yeah. Yeah, we got to know. Who is it? We have to know. I mean, because I'll tell you why we have to know. For the sheer fact that somebody more, who's more famous than Michael George?

I could name some people. I can name some people too. I mean, like, you know, the Eddie Murphy's, the, you know, there's other people. Would you say Eddie Murphy is less famous than Michael Jordan? Absolutely. No, they both have crossover pills. You're all into the bowling.

But Eddie Murphy, that's who it is Eddie Murphy. Okay. Well, I mean, over the years, there's been, you know, lots of people. When you're a house, I also talk to new actress in the industry. People are, you know. Let me ask you something. Was that exhausting?

I mean, I'm serious. Like, you're a very beautiful woman. Here you are making your way in the industry. You're modeling. You're acting. Was it? And the times were, let's face it, very different than they are now. Was it ever exhausting the amount of men that would hit on you?

I don't think. I mean, I never looked at it as exhausting. And it was over a period of time. It wasn't like all in a week, all in a month. but it was flattering. And I didn't really understand. Do you know what? I don't know why.

I just didn't buy into my looks. Obviously, it helped me with my career, but I never really bought into it. Does that make sense? Yes. I actually think that's great. You didn't get caught up in at all.

No, I sound like I would have gotten caught up. I'd be honest with you. Nah, it kind of doesn't. I'll be honest with you. Like, so Garcel, you would look, in the mirror and not know, I am a beautiful woman. Not that I didn't know.

I didn't rely solely on that. You know what I mean? Like even for me as a young girl, like, you know, growing up and making friends with other girls, I always wanted everybody to see me and not this. So therefore I went above and beyond to be friends with people. So that it wasn't about that. So it was almost like I was working again.

If you will. Building on that, you know, in your book or just one of the themes or what you want people to take from it, you know, coming from Haiti, having the success that you've had, it's so inspiring. And so can you talk a little bit about that portion of the book that you wanted to write about and what you hope young girls who look like you or maybe even who don't? Because anybody can be inspired by your story. Thank you for that. And that's one of the things, my takeaways with the book is that a lot of different people have connected and felt inspired by it. For me, you know, leaving Haiti at the age of seven, I didn't speak a word of English. I watched Sesame Street. I was the only black kid in my school when I could go to school. I think I have the immigrant mentality, which is why I think I hustle so much. It's always like, I'm so grateful that I'm here. I'm so grateful that I have these opportunities. So I constantly want to, I guess maybe reaffirm why I'm here. You know what I mean?

And so my mom bringing us here was just an amazing opportunity. And she knew that, but we didn't know that. And we were like, why are we here? It's cold. There's snow on the ground. We don't speak the language. We've never seen these white people like it was. It was definitely a shock, but obviously the best thing that happened.

And I think for me, when I could go to school with black kids like myself, when I went to Miami. I was so excited. I was so excited. But because I learned English the proper way, and being the new kid in school, all eyes are on you, and they were like, well, she thinks she's white.

She speaks too proper. And that was really hurtful, because here I was so excited to get with my people. So it was a lot of things. But for me, I think the thread, my entire life is just perseverance. I just never give up. Did you feel different culturally than the black kids in the school that you went, that you, that you went to school with?

You felt different culturally. How did you feel different? With the things they could get away with that I couldn't get away with, you know, we had to wear dresses. We had to look nice. And, you know, they could wear jeans. They could wear whatever. And I remember my mom seeing a couple of girls that were pregnant in high school and she was not having it. So she took me out of that school so fast.

I think culturally is the respect, the way you carry yourself. So I wasn't allowed to say what? If my mom called me and I didn't say yes, you know, in reply, that wasn't good. So it was definitely a different, different upbringing. I remember I went to a friend of mine's house and she was mixed and we were having dinner with her family and she had a hickie and her father goes, what is that on your neck? And she goes, don't you worry about it? And I was like waiting for a plate to go fly And I was waiting for something

There's no way I would have been able to talk like that No way I have to be honest with you That must be some wild Miami stuff Because where I'm from In Louisiana None of that would be able to fly In like none of it

I still don't answer my mama what Is yes ma'am No it's yes ma'am My father's pass on but yes sir All of that so that you know Maybe we Haitian or something like that I don't know You might be. We'll take you.

We'll take you. We'll claim you. Garcel, speaking of different. You are the only and the first housewife, black housewife on real housewives of Beverly Hills, which I have to tell you, you ask all the questions and say all the things that us viewers, like what we want to know, what we want to say, you're like the people's housewife.

I don't know if people tell you that, but that's how I feel. when I watch you. I'm like, thank you, Garcelle. The people's housewife. I like that. You are. You're the, how, this is a rough season. There seems to be a lot going on. Where, where do you stand with alliances with your castmates? Because there's just a lot of off-camera things. We're just getting into the season. Haven't even touched what some of the drama is that that is alleged for this season.

Yeah, you know, this season is going to be definitely a doozy. And I hate the fact that it's gone offline, you know, because I think we're, like you said, we're just getting started. Let it play out and then we'll take care of it when the reunion comes or later on in the season. So for me, my alliances with Sutton. I'm friends with Kyle.

And, you know, I'm friends with Kathy. I mean, I don't want to get into that just yet because I think a lot has to be developed before we get into any of that stuff that's happening on social media. But I wish it wasn't on social media. I wish people would just watch the show and let us get to it. Yeah, that's what I'm doing. Yeah. You were such a revelation when you were on the Jamie Fox show. And I feel like there were a lot of.

black actresses from the time that you were popular and on television that really didn't get the opportunity in Hollywood as much as some of our sisters are now. I talked to my friend, Tay Diggs, about this, and he'll always talk about the fact that he was just a little bit early in terms of studios and everybody being so open to shows and movies and art featuring all different types of black faces, right? Um, are there any regrets of that nature that you have about your career in Hollywood? It's so much longer and you're still here.

Do you feel like Hollywood was asked open a place for black performers in the time that you were, uh, doing your thing on TV? Uh, definitely not. Definitely not. I mean, I think we've come a long way,

but I remember, First of all, coming from the modeling world into acting. A lot of casting directors suck and she walk and talk at the same time. They had no faith in models. And so it was important for me to do diverse roles. From the Jamie Fox Show, I went straight into NYPD Blue. I think that helped me, you know? And I was careful about what the choices I made, you know, not because I had it like that,

but because I thought, I don't want to do that. And for a lot of times, it would be like, oh, she's not. not urban enough. She's not street enough. And I think that probably stopped me from doing certain roles that may have pigeonholed me. I don't know. I think everything happens for a reason. There were roles that I wanted that they would, like, we're not going urban. We're not doing interracial, you know, relationship. We're not seeing black people, even for Model Zink. You know, when I got, when my agent at the time had said, oh, there's a show coming up that I think you'd be great for. And, you know, we'll get you an audience.

audition and I was still modeling. That was my, you know, red and butter. So I would fly back in court in New York or everywhere. And a couple of weeks went by and I said, hey, whatever happened to that show. And they said, oh, they're not seeing any black actresses. And I was like, it's a show about models in New York. They're not seeing any black actresses. So that night, I want they just straight up told you that. Oh, yeah. My agent told me that. You're not seeing any black. Your agent, your agent just says straight up. Yep. They're not seeing any black people. Yep. Because we would hear that before. We would hear they're going another way.

They don't really want it to be urban, an urban story. And so that night I went to bed and I had a dream that I was talking to Aaron Spelling. Now, being Haitian, we're superstitious. We believe in a lot of things. So the next day, I thought to myself, I didn't have that dream, you know, by coincidence. It's for a reason. So 401, I call 411, and I said I need the address of spelling and containment. And they said 57-57-Wilshire, I'll never forget it.

So I wrote a letter. I put a couple of modeling photos. And I had like a small reel and I took it to the office. And it was a black receptionist. So when I got up to the floor, I said, hi, I'd like to see Mr. Spelling. And she was like, do you have an appointment? And I said, no, she goes, it doesn't work like that. Right.

And I said, well, can I leave you a package? She said, yes. And so the next day I called and I said, listen, you know, I'm the girl that was there yesterday. Did he get the package? and she said I actually left it on his desk with me really, really cool of her. And four days later, I got a call from the casting director. Three days later, I read for Aaron Spelling,

and I got the job. Wow. Speaking. Kick that door down. Kick that door down, but so. People don't do that, do it like that anymore. I got to tell you from that to, not so much to hear that building.

From that to getting your, own development deal. What what what what do you want to do with that? Where do you see that going? Like what kind of projects are you into what kind of doors do you want to help open for other people? Listen to have this opportunity to still be. I don't like the word relevant, but to still be working in this industry and being able to get a development deal is huge for me. Um, I want to create content for all of us and I want to tell different stories from unscripted to scripted. It's an opportunity for me to sort of take control of the narrative. And for so long, I feel like we tell the same stories, but now I feel like we're opening up the doors and open to seeing and watching our stories.

So I hope I get to do a lot of different things. And producing is where I want to go. I'm not interested in directing, but producing I love. That's great. You're on the Jamie Fox show for many years. Jamie Jamie was on vacation not too long ago Garcel he was hanging out with Spotted with a lady Garcel What

There are some people that are noticing a trend Jamie Some people that say Fancy is the last time we saw Jamie With a black woman Stop it right now You're just telling her what the people are saying. I'm just telling her what the people are saying.

I don't care. I support the brother. I think he's the most talented. What do you think? Did you have any thoughts about that? What do you think? My thoughts are we in the 21st century, we are allowed to date anybody we want to.

I mean, listen, I was married to a white man, so I can't say too much. Me neither. Garcel, me neither. I stay quiet during these moments. But I have dated in brother since, though. Or do you ever see yourself, now that you've gone black,

is there any chance you'll go back? You know what? I'm open to whomever presents themselves and it's a right fit for me. I'm really not. I'm not pitching holding one way or another. If that's my person, it's my person, no matter what color, what race, what anything.

Do you think that more people, black women particularly, should be open to dating outside of their race, white guys, Asian guys, whatever? Yeah, I mean, I don't think there should be a stigma. I mean, love is love, right? You can't help. I mean, listen, you can go to a restaurant

and you can pick the steak you want, how you want it done. But I think when it comes to something like love, heart, you have to be open. You don't know who's supposed to be with you. I mean, do I love seeing a black couple? Absolutely. but I also think love is love

you fall in love with who you fall in love with Who do you date, man? Black, you know, it's not But look, but look, here's the thing though, but here's the thing though. I want you guys to understand something. Okay. There's no, here's a difference.

There's no choice. I mean, like, I can't, like, my mama's, my mama's not going to accept that. Like, it's not, you know, and by the way, This is, look, in all seriousness. I have something to say about that, too.

Go ahead. Like, at all seriousness. Rachel knows, you know, I'm one of the guys who I don't really give it a fuck. I think. No, he doesn't. I don't give a fuck. But the reality is that, because it's so funny, right?

We're here for such a short time and then like we're gone. So to really be, when you think about life in those terms to be hung up on certain things, it's really, really wild. But I do think, though, that not so much with sisters and white guys, but with black men and black women, that there is a legitimate sort of concern that black women can bring to the table. There's a legitimate concern that we at least have to hear them out in terms of their ability to find mates, how important they feel in American society, how their beauty is approaching American society. sisters should be free to do whatever they want, but as black men, we should really be a little bit more cognizant

and willing to hear out sisters who have a problem with black men dating outside of the race. That doesn't mean that you can't do it, but I feel like, I feel like you have to honor black women by listening to some of their hurt, their pain, and their opinions on that. Am I wrong?

No, no, you're definitely not wrong, but I also think there are certain black men who when they get to a certain level, it only feels like they have to go the other way to level up. And that I have a problem. Right. I have a problem.

Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes, you know, they whoever you want, but don't be like, yo, this is why I love white women. Which we're seeing way too much of these days. Way too much. But I have to say the other day, my boys was like, oh, I like this girl.

And I knew my other son likes another girl. And I actually yelled out loud in the house. I'm like, anybody going to date a black girl? It's like I had an out of experience. What did they say? One of them was like, well, mom at our school, there's not, you know, you know that. You know, there's not. Yeah.

Yeah, the whole, um, Ronnie James thing. So look, Garcel, this has been an amazing conversation with you. I am, I don't know why I'm saying this. I'm happy that we still get to talk, hear from and watch the development and growth of Garcel Beauvais. And wherever you go, you bring a light and you keep it real, man. I didn't know you was this militant. I've seen you on the show giving, giving the business to people. I'm like, yeah.

Like, that's what the fuck I'm talking about. I didn't know, I didn't know fancy was bringing it like that. I mean, she was on the real. That's all they do. Right. I know. I miss it already. I know.

We miss it too. And I'm going to do give you, before I let you go, I'm going to give you a five second pitch. You're talking about producing. I have a dream project. I've made a movie. The movie did pretty good. We have got to get the Haitian Revolution movie done. You're the second person.

It has. Oh, my God. It's got to happen. like I'm kicking all the tires. They don't want that movie to be made. I know. It's like they don't want that movie to be made. That's the film.

That's amazing. That's the, that's the, that's the one. Okay, let's keep talking. Let's keep talking. Okay. Um, this is, uh, higher learning the podcast. That was the amazing Garcena. We appreciate you so much for joining us today on higher learning.

Keep doing your thing, you guys. Love you so much, really. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Trimphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Trimphia, proper training is required. Tramphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severe

active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimfaya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more.

Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. Carl, Garcel was great, wasn't she? She was fantastic. Super attractive. It's fun to see you fan out like that. I didn't know that. You didn't, I mean, we knew she was coming on, but I didn't know how you felt about her.

I like it. Got you all. Ooh, ooh, blah, okay, Jake Paul. Jake Paul slam President Biden. Hates him. Dick Paul says he's a YouTuber turned boxer. That's who Jake Paul is.

took to Twitter. And his grievances out against President Biden. These are the grievances. One, highest gas prices. Two, worst inflation. Three, plummeting crypto prices. Okay, these three things are not President Biden's fault. Four, highest rent prices ever.

Five, created new incomprehensible language. Some would say that that probably happened under President Trump. If you're reading this and you're going for Biden and you still don't regret it, you are the American problem. Jake Paul is making his presence felt. the political sphere. Now, what we could do is go down this list and talk about how these things are complex global problems.

As we sit right now, the gas is $9 in Canada. The crypto situation is the combination of a lot of things. There are a lot of things right now that are affords in this. You know I won't do that, though? First of all, I won't do that because I think smart people already know that. Okay? I think smart people already look at these three things and look at some of the issues that are plaguing the world when you talk about supply side things.

Absolutely. Okay. And another reason why I won't do that is because it's the White House's job to message that. Yeah, I mean, it is. But it's the White House's job. I'm not talking about Jake Paul. I'm talking about overall. Number one, inflation is something that the president needs to take action on.

This has not happened before in the 1970s. The inflation was fucking terrible. They, they, uh, They appointed a new Fed chief named Paul Volker, and that guy fucking drove the interest rates up so goddamn high that he was able to defeat inflation, but it was at a fantastic cost to the American economy over the next,

over the next really decade, if you really want to be honest with you, honest about it. The situation there is that was at a time where the Fed did not have, very much credibility with the American public. This is a time when the Fed actually does have a lot of credibility with the American public. So the question is, how is Biden and the rest of really not just the Democrats, but really the American governmental apparatus going to convince the American public that inflation

is something that they're going to be able to fix? Because there are ways that they have to, they're things that they probably could do to fix inflation or at least less in the blow. Because right now, only the poor people are being hurt. like people that are in a good position financially are probably not feeling this blow as much but uh people that need every dollar they're really just it's almost like it's it's it's it's crippling for them yeah to have these costs costs rise like this but it's the white house job to message this I guess my question is whether or not this information is right or wrong and the crypto thing is a

fucking joke you guys played with fake money and now you're getting real burnt um uh do you have a problem with jake paul tweeting this i do and it's not that jake paul can't have an opinion right i'm not one of those people who's like oh stick to doing what you're doing no obviously he can have an opinion he has a vote in this country he can say what he feels my issue is you said something where smart people will understand why the first three things are happening Do you think that the audience that Jake Paul reaches who can vote, understand why the first three things are happening? Do you think majority of them do? Do you think majority of them said, huh?

Jake Paul made this statement. Let me go out and research and understand what inflation is, how it came about, and did this just happen in the last year, two years, or is this something that's been building? Do you think people really did that? Do you think people looked up the whole supply and demand thing? I don't think they did. So this is why I have a problem with what he said. You put this general statement out there, this blanket statement, without the why. And it's great.

So it's like, what's the purpose of you putting out this statement? Is it to condemn the Biden administration? Is it because you're frustrated? Because Jake Paul is somebody who's not hurt by the things that he, maybe it's the crypto, but not necessarily hurt by the things that he named, right? He's in a different bracket. So what's your purpose for putting that out there? Are you trying to encourage people to to gather information, to vote, to understand?

I just felt like there should have been a why those that list exists, how these things are happening. Otherwise, don't put that out there. I think the why was clear. What's the why? The last line of it is if you're reading this and you voted for Biden and you don't regret it, then you are the American problem. I think the why is that he feels like President Biden has been back. Not the why he did it, the why there's inflation, the why the crypto. That's what I'm talking about.

I'm talking the why in his list, not the why he did it. So to me, it's fine if you want to do that, but then give a little bit more because this is a huge generalization. And it makes miss, what's the word I'm trying to say. It doesn't characterize properly the, what is happening, right? You're blaming it on Biden, but that's not necessarily all true. Right? And it has nothing to necessarily do with your vote for Biden. There are a lot of issues that play into why inflation is so high right now,

and it didn't start in the Biden presidency. You can say some things that he's done have contributed to inflation, but you can't say it's the reason why it exists currently in this country. So I just felt it's just really problematic. And I think a lot of people do that where they just throw these things out there and they have a huge audience and people receive it. And then you'll have these people saying, yeah, you know, like forget the Biden,

administration that they're the reason we have inflation which isn't necessarily true it's just it's misinformation to me okay so i see your point if you're talking about the fact that it's uh that it's misinformation the question is is it misinformation or is it disinformation and i think it's miss okay well so if it's misinformation then it's twitter par for the course and if you're asking jake paul to have a higher degree of responsibility that we see for places is like Fox News and other places like that is just not going to happen. If Jake Paul,

if Jake Paul, well, the reason why I say whether or not is misinformation or disinformation is because do you think Jake Paul knows that what he's saying isn't true?

Because if he knows, if he knows, if Jake Paul knows that what he's saying isn't true, look at my nails catch the light. Sexy daddy got a jail manicure. Sexy daddy got a jail. He's a sexy daddy with the jail manicure.

He's a sexy daddy with a jail manicure. Yeah, sexy daddy with a jail manicure. Okay, that's enough. Man. There's a 70s. How long is it going on? It's a 70s. Every octave is a 70s disco joint.

I just dropped out with another hit, a 70s disco joint about my jail manicure. If Jake Paul knows that what he's saying isn't true, then it's disinformation. and Jake Paul is purposely putting out destabilizing information to use with his X amount of million dollar fans, millions of fans, whatever, to make them go vote in a different way. If it's misinformation, he's doing the same thing I see. I'm not saying what he's doing is right. What I'm saying is there are so many misinformed political takes that I'm seeing right now. So many people who don't know what the fuck they're talking about. we're going to talk in a second about all the celebrities endorsing Rick Caruso for mayor

Rick Caruso is a Trump loyalist who's been a lifelong Republican operative in one of the biggest ways here and I'm like he is no I just like that you use the word operative like that there was this one time there was this really handsome guy that was sitting behind President Trump at a debate or something like that he was going to the debates he's like some kind of That was Rick Crusoe's son. These guys are like, oh, and I'm seeing this influx of supposedly liberal

Los Angeles celebrities supporting Rick Crusoe. And I still am not really getting a lot of answers. Why? And I know he's a, if you guys don't know who Rick Crusoe is, he is a Uber rich real estate guy out here in California who created the Grove. He's very rich.

I've met him before. Decent, nice guy. I guess, I mean, politically, politically, he's putrid and has been involved in a lot of things. But, like, I don't feel like a lot of the people that we would call quote unquote celebrities have any clue what the fuck they're talking about when it comes to the majority of this stuff. And I think that that runs, I think that that like kind of jumps over party lines. I think that's kind of on both sides. So when I saw this, I thought, oh, well, Jake doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. As far as the irresponsibility, it moved me less because I see this so often.

I see people posting shit that's obviously fucking fake. That's obviously fake. Like it's really fake. But it's out there. So I don't know, man. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, you're your homework, Jake.

If you're going to step into that world, you got to, I just feel like you got to step up a little bit. You're not wrong. You're not wrong. Do you have any crypto? No. Don't have a wallet. Don't have any of that.

Trudy Donnie, crypto heads? I don't understand it. Me neither. Trudy? It's not for me. I don't get it. And somebody tried to explain NFTs to me,

and it's just, it's totally a percent. I know what I know. I understand NFTs. Yeah. You know, Rachel looked at me crazy. The last time I tried to explain

crypto to Rachel, she didn't, she didn't even listen. I was just like this. Yeah. Justice Department is opening a probe into the Louisiana State Police. More happenings down there in my state. Sweeping civil rights investigation to Louisiana State Police

amid minding evidence that the agency has a pattern of looking the other way in the face of beatings of most of black men, including the 2019 arrest of Ronald Green, which is the federal pattern or practice probe, which is the first such action against a statewide law enforcement agent, see in more than two decades comes more than three years after troopers were captured on long withheld body camera video beating stunning and dragging green on a rule or roadside near Monroe the town in Louisiana despite linking ongoing federal and state criminal investigations into a death troopers initially blamed on the car crash no one has been charged okay so when I saw this story you know what I thought no fucking shit I thought that I thought that that This is the example of what happens when you have a community's voice drowned out. There is not one black person that I personally know in South Louisiana, where I grew up, Baton Rouge.

I'll tell you guys again, it's where I'm from, who doesn't know what the fuck is up with the state police? Not one. Not one. When you are driving to New Orleans, I think it's Troop A in the state police. When you are driving toward New Orleans, most of the time you're driving toward New Orleans, right? This is what the player proof crew would do. Everybody want to go to the Bayou Classic, right? When they want to leave, Rich, they want to leave on Friday.

Oh, I'm going to get off work. I'm going to get off work, and we're going to drive down. Because when you drive down on Friday, it's like a line of cars. You get stuck in traffic. You might see some on the way. You feel what I'm saying? You might see a little something on the way. But the player proof crew, we leave on Thursday night.

because we like to fly. We get Ryan Davenport behind the wheel. Ian's going to fall asleep. What we would always do is we would wait to Ian will fall asleep. Ryan had three 12s in the back of his car. And so Ian will fall asleep. We will boom, hit them 12s and wake his dumb ass up every single time. Put that beat on his motherfucking back.

And we would fly down there. Ryan would be flying. He was the best driver in the crew going. But you know what we wouldn't fly? there's an area right when you're leaving Baton Rouge that we would slow down. The reason why we would slow down is because we know that the state police troop that patrols that area, we do not want to run into them. We don't want to see them.

We don't want to deal with them. We don't want them to see us. We don't want them to happen upon four black dudes going down to New Orleans to have a good time. this is in the 90s. We know the stories we've heard of how they do niggas. We know the stories we've heard of how they've planted stuff. We know the stories we've heard of how they will keep you sitting on the side of the road for six or seven hours just to fuck with you. Take your car for no, we've heard all of this, how they fuck with you.

Now, if we're talking about this going on 20 or 30 years, how is it that whoever is supposed to be have oversight in this situation, is so behind the so behind the calls and the complaints and the thoughts and feelings of an entire community in South Louisiana. That's what I asked me. I mean, it's pretty, obviously I'm not familiar with what goes down in Louisiana, but I know that you've talked about it a little bit. So, I mean, maybe even more than a little bit. But the fact that this is the case that had to happen where they wanted to, which is why. Like, it's so disgusting and tragic what happened to Rodney Green. If this is the case that had to require the Justice Department to go down there and open it up.

Ronald Green, by the way. Is it Ronald Green? Sorry, that's my uncle. No, I have a Rodney Green as an uncle. Oh, wow. Anyways, yeah, Ronald Green. That this had to happen for them to finally. open things up

as what seems to have been going on since the existence of this state police, it's pretty incredible. But, you know, it seems like the Justice Department really is, and maybe I'm over-speaking, maybe I'm generalizing, doing some probes into problematic police forces. You're into it. Well, I'm into it if it's going to create some type of change,

if it's going to bring away, like somebody like me who lived right next door to Louisiana but had no idea what was happening with the Louisiana State Police. Yeah, if it's going to bring awareness, if it's going to put people on their toes, if it's going to clean out these departments that have been problematic from the very beginning, then I'm absolutely into it. And I'm hoping that's what happens here. I just, it's just, it's just crazy to me that you all, you guys have always known that this is what's been going down and it's just been ignored.

Just let you guys know, in some cases, troopers omitted, is a force as blows to the head from official reports. They didn't talk about them. And other troopers sought to justify their actions by claiming suspects were violent, resisting, or escaping, all of which were contradicted by video footage. If the investigation is thorough,

and if the investigation is impartial, they have these guys' debt to rights. This is an open secret for a lot of people. All right, 31 Patriot Front members are arrested near Idaho Pride event. I sure you guys have heard about this by now. Authorities arrested, 31 members of the white supremacist group Patriot Front

near an Idaho Pride event Saturday after they were found packed into the back of the U-Haul truck with riot gear. Rachel, did you hear about this story? Yes, I heard about this. What do you think? I mean, the fucking guys got hit with conspiracy to riot, which is a misdemeanor.

They were fucking ready to go nuts. They were standing inside inside the truck wearing, khakis, navy blue shirts, and beige hats with white baklavas covering their faces. All right, police stopped them. They had all kinds of stuff. Based on evidence collected and documents, authority found that the group was playing to riot in several areas of downtown, not just the park. White said. Police found riot gear, one smoke grenade, shing guards, and shields inside the van.

They wore armed patches and logos on their hats that identified them as the Patriot Front. Now, let me tell you something about this real quick. And I'm not comparing these two things whatsoever because there's bodies on the one side allegedly If these guys get out there and they get to the fucking streets while pride is going on there's no fucking Clue how many people get hurt I understand that the conspiracy the riot charge is a criminal charge you mean to tell me legal eagle In all of the fucking penal code whatever you fuck you call it whatever it is there's nothing more severe these guys can be Can be charged with

This seems like an incredibly dangerous situation. Is this a criminal conspiracy? I mean, they're going to get YSL. That's fine. Should they be going to get the Patriot front? Well, I don't think we can compare it to YSL because YSL actually allegedly was committed the acts, the criminal acts.

They stopped them before it happened. That's why it's a conspiracy. I don't know the penal code in Idaho. I don't know the penal code in Idaho, but it's also, this is alarming, obviously, for obvious reasons. But what's also alarming is that this is a part of a new, new white supremacist group.

New. You already got the ones that are already out there. People are still creating white supremacist groups, brand new ones. That is terrifying to me. And the guy who started this one from Dallas, right outside of Dallas. Makes a lot sense. And you can. Okay.

Okay. I think there's a lot of messed up things happening in both of them. of our state. But that to me, that's just equally as terrifying, is that people are out here starting new groups of hate. You know, I think this week was the anniversary

of the shooting at the Poles Night Club. And I think about that when I think about these groups. And to be honest with you, if there is not something on the books, there should be. because to stop how do we know that they were going down there just a riot if you look at the way I look at it they were going down there to hurt people oh absolutely it was a riot in Charlottesville that cost that woman Heather Hey or her life right so like it's not like these

things happen and no one gets hurt people get hurt people go down there and get hurt and by the way this isn't something that where people are marching for something and things it out of hand. These are agitators who have a purposeful and very direct objective to go down there

and start shit. What were they going to do it peacefully? They're going to do it and make sure nobody got hurt? No, that's why their faces were covered. Why I sure do, Siri? Their faces were covered. It's like maybe they didn't have

have the guns and you're thinking, oh, they couldn't physically hurt them. But you just think about that. They would have harassed them. They would have emotionally, mentally attacked them where they basically are intimidating to the point where they're too scared to come out and live their lives as who they are. That was what they were doing, which you're right. They had smoke grenades. They smoke grenades.

They smoke grenades. If there's a bunch of niggas, it's a felony. No, listen. I wish there was, I don't know, like I said, I don't know the penal code, and there should be something more harsh than that because of all the damage that they could have potentially done, not just even physically.

And the motive was hate, right? That's the thing. The motive was hate behind it, which I would think that that would be something that would make it an even bigger crime. But again, I don't know the books there. We have been promising you guys a conversation for a long time

surrounding Lil Nas X and a Montero video. We finally got to have that conversation with the amazing Jared Hill. But we also talked to Jared, part two of our conversation surrounding the case of Issa Tutea down there in Virginia. And Jared's going to give us a much of your perspective. The always amazing Jared Hill will come back from this break on the other side of power learning. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping.

Then you'd want a car. cargo liner or road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. This episode is brought to by Borishead. What if we told you the taste of deep fried turkey is now available at your local deli? Well, Borishead just did that. Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means pointing your whole day around it, presenting the Friars turkey breast only from Boreshead.

The backyard tradition now available behind the counter. Visit your local deli today. Discover the craftmanship behind every bite. Borshead committed to craft since 1905. You guys, we have a very special guest coming on right now. I met this gentleman some years ago. I think it was at a panel that he hosted. I think that's when we met, right?

of some sort, Jared. Black men in media, like 2018 or 2019, maybe. Yeah, black men in media. Back in, and that's what we are. Me and Jared Hill, with some black men in media. Since then, he has become somebody who gives me a great deal of perspective. I talk to him all the time with brothers. I consider him to be a friend.

He is the host, or one-half of the host, of the Fantee podcast with Travelle Anderson. And he does so many other things. He is an advocate. He is an activist. He is one of the smartest guys in this whole city. Jared Hill is, is, whenever you don't think so? Receive it. It's way too much pressure.

Because now I receive it. You'll be fine. You'll be fine. Receive that. Thank you for that. I reached out to, I reached out to Jared because we have been, we've talked about a great many things, Jared and I have. I wanted to revisit the conversation later on.

I'm surprising them with this one about Lil Nas X. and the Montereovie or we talked about that some time ago. We kept promise in the audience we would do that and we never did it. I'm an ambush. Okay. It's an ambush. But also we wanted to, we wanted to continue the conversation we had around Isay, Atute and his acquittal for murder charges out there in Virginia.

We had our thoughts and we had a conversation with his defense on it. And I wanted to get the opinion of Jared, a member of the LGBTQ plus community. So we could, I got it right. I was, no, Jared, do you call him out on that? I was shocked. I was like holding my breath as you were about to say it. Yeah. That might be the first time.

Good job. Nice work, man. I'm happy. So I called Jared and I asked Jared if he would look over things and kind of maybe, call us on some of our biases and maybe give an opinion that we can kind of absorb because to be honest with you there's a lot of talk

a very divisive interview on a lot of our social so Jared thank you for joining us and when you looked at it what did you think of everything that happened out there in Virginia? I said who shit I do not want to have to talk about this my first thought No, I, first of all, and I'm not saying this because I'm on your show,

but I do want to shout y'all out because I do think that y'all ask all of the right questions as allies, right? As folks that are like wanting, that are not a part of community that want to defend community, y'all talked about dead naming, y'all asked the questions about whether or not Jerry or Angie identified as trans. Y'all had a lot of, y'all asked a lot of questions throughout the time in the interview. I was like, okay, I see y'all. I was like, and I wasn't surprised, but I was very happy. And so that was the first thing that I was thinking. This case is interesting to me as a queer person who is like on dating apps and single and,

you know, kind of out here or whatever. But like it struck me because it's really about whether or not people are being honest about things, right? And like, I am looking at this from the lens of people lie about who they are on dating apps and for sex all day every day, right? The lies can be, I am 37, I am single, I am straight, I am gay, right? I am interested in you, right? Or what are all kinds of different things that people lie about for sex.

And so, like, that part of it was something that I was like, this is an interesting intersection where we're talking about gender and race and sexuality. And I feel like this case kind of encompasses all of those things together in a way that is really, really unique and special because if either one of the dynamics of this case, race or gender or sexuality or how one presents or all of those different things, if any of them were different, we'd be talking about this differently. Yeah, it really was a complex, I guess, issue for us to tackle. And as Van pointed out on our socials, people were divided as far as how they thought we

approached it. You listened to the interview. What were your thoughts? And maybe what was problematic in the interview? Maybe you didn't find it that way. Yeah, if you could speak on that. So I had notes that I wrote down about both of the things that y'all brought up as points. Like, so for instance, Rachel, one of the bones of contensions that I share with you was that Ease never said in that first police report that he was in fear for his life.

He never mentioned, you know, the question about a gun or, you know, later, later finding out that it was a knife. that coming up does have like this era feeling convenient, right? I've been like, oh, now you were scared and fear for your life, which is also another element that's interesting to hear this white lawyer talking about a black man in an assault that happened on a white person, right? That whole thing is interesting. I was having a discussion with a friend about that just before coming on the air. And so that piece of it is interesting,

but it also does kind of hit me at the same time saying like, We know that black men, especially young black men, don't tend to get treated the same way as non-black folks when they're being interviewed by the police, right? Yeah. And Rachel, you have, like, you know, you as a lawyer know that in a way that would probably be more than Banner Eye. It makes me think like, okay, well, what did they ask him? What was he afraid of? What was he concerned about? What was he asking them, right?

What questions did they ask? I mean, what was kind of left out. And so I'm kind of on both sides of this one, right? And as you call the complex on our show, Fantai, we're always talking about the complex and complicado, right? Like, this is a difficult one because we see it from both sides. Rachel, you talked about whether or not queer or trans people would be more afraid after a moment like this, right?

And it's like, well, I mean, number one, we already afraid out here, right? But, like, when we're talking about queer and trans folks being afraid about being intact, I'm concerned about that walking down the street. And, like, I don't see this one as being something that makes me more concerned about my safety from a gay panic perspective because gay panic laws even exist, right? Like the fact that there are laws on the books I talked about gay panic and how they, and how we can like be okay with that in certain states and not in others, not in Virginia apparently, but like that is something that is frustrating in this case.

And so, Van, you talked about going back over to the house and how that was questionable for you, right? The going back over to the house thing is what got it complicated for me because the first instance where we saw EC go over with a friend who came into the house and they stayed out, I believe, in the living room, and EC and Angie slash Jerry went into another room. That was interesting to me because, like, if Angie had performed oral sex and then given the money and then they all came back to do that again, what if when EC did say he wanted intercourse, like, it was a woman. Were they going to come in and then join?

What, like, because the other piece of it is, like, there are other people coming along for something that is supposedly supposed to be a sexual encounter, right? And so it's not just the possibility of, oh, they came to jump Angie slash Jerry, but they also could have been coming to participate in something else, right? And so I think about it from that lens. There's a lot, there's a lot.

So I think there are two bones of contention here. And these things don't really get at what actually happened in the house. Because what actually happened in the house either was self-defense or it wasn't, right? that's the deal either the the the incident the interaction with self-defense or it wasn't but i do think that there are people here who have legitimate questions about jerry slash angie and there are two questions here and i'll ask them both to you number one do you think jerry slash angie was

a sexual predator and that question right there uh is top of mind on people who look at this and say, well, clearly, clearly, luring someone in under false pretenses, going to this length, and then based upon other things that people say around Blatzburg, that Jerry slash Angie was a sexual predator. That's number one. Number two, we talk about lying to get sex

and how people do that. Are there lies to get sex that are so fundamental, meaning I only want to have sex with women. I only want to have sex with men. Therefore, if you lie about that, it is in effect robbing you of your consent to do something that you wouldn't have otherwise done. And for a lot of people that are looking at the black and white

in this case, those are the due questions that they're asking. One, was Jerry slash Angie a sexual predator who prayed upon the young? young black men of Blacksburg, Virginia. And number two, if you, in fact, lure somebody over and you're not even the sex or gender that you say you are, are you taking their consent from them? So I'll take the second question first, whether or not, you know, you're robbing someone of their consent because you did not tell them the truth about your gender or how they

perceive your gender, right? Right. I think we have to question where the line is, right? Because if it's about gender, that's one thing. But if it's about sexuality, then it's another. If it's then about whether or not you're sick, that's another, right? Then it's like, okay, well, then we can just make it out anything, right? How much money the person makes, whether or not this is your house?

Is this your wife? Like, I don't know where those lines are, and I don't think anybody can really define that, right? And so even if we think about this from the angle of gay panic, which again, this was not a gay panic case because they don't have gay panic in Virginia. But like, we don't even know that it's that, right? Because I've seen headlines that say gay trans panic. And it's like, that's one that's irresponsible because that's not what this was. But like, we don't know what this person was.

And EZ certainly doesn't seem to even know if this person was trans or identified as cis and like to cross dress for sex. Like all of those different things, right? And so when we're going into a sexual encounter with a stranger, we're going into a sexual encounter with a stranger. we're going into a sexual encounter with a stranger, right? We see whatever they put on their Instagram profile or whatever they put on their Tinder profile or whatever, and we take that as fast. You can ask some questions if you want to.

When I have sex with someone, I'm disclosing a couple of different things with them. I've come out recently about being HIV-positive. I'm to making sure that you know about my status. But, like, there are even conversations about whether or not that has to happen, right, as a person who's under-dectable and can't pass along, all of those different kinds of things. And so the question becomes, like, where is the line?

Where do we decide what a person has to tell before it makes it okay or not? So your first question of whether or not Angie slash Jerry is a sexual predator, all of these people were consenting, right? All of these people went to this person's house. All of these people opened the door and saw that the house was dark. I mean, seemingly, right? And we're just talking about EC in this one, but like saw that the house was dark. I know plenty of gay, queer, trans, and straight people who have gone over to somebody's house.

would not recognize the person tomorrow at brunch, right? Or did not have all the lights on and got things in. Or did not know the person's last name, right? I have had, you know, we ain't talking about me. I was going to say, don't put your business out there. I was going to say, okay. Both of you all set up in your seats a little bit too much, and that said, uh-uh. I'm like, I'm like, give it up.

No, but like, give it up. But I have hooked up with guys who later on, like five, 10 years later, if I saw them out of party, I'd be like, hey, what's up? and would know, right? Like, and I mean, you know, I mean, he's out here. He's lived a life, right? And so we're talking about these things. It's like these people consented whether or not they had all the information is a whole other conversation.

So real quick, to piggyback on one thing, you think that there's a conversation to be had about whether or not someone who, because as I understand it, having sex and not disclosing your HIV status with somebody, that's against the law, right? In certain states it is. There are disclosure laws about what is required to be disclosed in different states. And so that is a real conversation. That's a part of legal circles all over the country. So you think that there's actually a question about whether or not you should be required to tell somebody that? I didn't say that. Okay.

That's what the laws are. For me, my ethic personally, like, I always want to share that with people, right? I think they should know that. But, like, there's a whole conversation around, like, whether or not you have to volunteer. to that information or someone should ask it and all of those different things. Disclosure about any and everything is an open question, right? About sexual, about our statuses, right, as a gender, about sexuality, about the things that we want about who we are.

All of those things are in question. Every time that you meet up with someone and have sex and you don't know who they are. That's very true. So did you think, I want to make sure I get that, did you think that, oh, I don't know if you answer, did you think that Jerry slash Angie was a sexual? Well, so, I mean, it's definitely giving Edbuck, right? Like, there are definitely some moments like, uh, right? This older white man who is very attracted to, I'm careful to use the word praying on, right?

But it's at least attracted to and reaching out to young black men, right? But all of them consented, right? Mind you, even though they did not have all the information that they may have wanted to have, they all consented to being a part of it. And they even got paid, right? So there's a conversation about $50, and we know that EC got $50, which for some people, I think is very strange and like, I've never been paid for sex. Even, never mind. But like, that was.

Scott. Scott. I, there's a Drake reference fuck or free that's in my head right now. But like, I am thinking about how in queer communities and all kinds of different things and like sex workers, right? People get paid for sex all the time, whether or not they talk about it. a different conversation, right? But there are also people who want things for sex and are willing to pay for it

and people that will participate. And that is a choice that everyone gets to make. And so I think that even that element of it, like, what was EC was EC supposed to do? Be like, no, I'm not going to take your money. I'm an 18-year-old college student. Like, I probably would have took the money too, right? And so there's so many different elements

of this story that are just interesting and nuanced. So my last Jerry Smith question, can you see why the jury acquitted him? I can, to be quite honest, right? I think if this is about reasonable doubt, if we're asking the jury to say, like, do you think this is a hate crime? There's reasonable doubt, right?

I'm not sure what to think about this case, right? Because there's a world where, yes, EC killed this person or attacked this person because EC thought they were gay or trans, right? There's absolutely that possibility. There's also the possibility that EC saw the knife, saw the person reaching for what we now know was a knife, right? And like, the question becomes like, if Jerry had reached for the knife and then we saw the knife

and then EC started attacking, does that completely change everything because then it's off defense? Or is it just the reaching for the knife? Is it, like, where is that line? And so it is a hard thing to just, like, buy into and say, like, not guilty. But, like, there are a lot of questions that are on, answered about this. And Rachel, to your point, we don't get a lot of those answers because Jerry, gosh, Angie is dead. Right. And so I, it's a hard one to figure out.

All right. So let's move on to Lil Nasex. Lul Nasex made a video back in the day. It's called Montero. Call me by your name. Yeah. Okay. And I'm a good old Christian boy. Jesus. Okay. Okay. The blood of Jesus. Nobody's moved right now, just so you know. Okay. Sometimes sometimes I'm Sometimes I'm walking down the street And I feel something and oh my God

I stand up straight to blood of Jesus All right So look Back in the day we had a conversation And me and Rachel Rachel I'm not going to speak for Rachel Rachel, Rachel how did you feel? No, no, no, no I come from a religious background as well

Obviously the subject matter in the Montero video was a little jarring for Van and I when we watched it more because of the devil, right? It was the devil that got us. It was the devil. It was the devil. It was 100% the devil. It was 100.

I promise you, Jared, I swear. But I do, but that question, but that question is on point because I think a lot of people had your question. Is it really the devil or is it something else? It truly was the devil for us. Right, man. I'll let's fish your question.

Go ahead, fish your question. But it was the devil. I'm scared of the devil. And I remember I hit Jared up. I hit Jared up. And I asked Jared about this. And a lot of people wanted us to finish this conversation. He promised that we would.

And then all kinds of shit went haywire. And Jared gave me a download on a scolding. He felt like the video. I would, you know what, look. A talking to. Not a scolding. because he's too, but he did give me the

what I got your mind right. He got my mind right. So what are your thoughts on on, on, on people who, whose Christianity was offended by the Montero Lil Nas X video? Well, I don't remember

specifically how I ate you up the last time we talked about this. But what I will say what I will say is as a person who has grown up super Christian as well. I'm still in church today and working out how I engage religion as a queer

single person in a church that really has no frame of reference of what to do with me, right? Like, I'm 37, I'm single, I'm sexually active. What is the book telling me I'm supposed to do? Am I supposed to be celibate?

Waiting to get married for a dowry? I wouldn't get because I'm a man. All of this weird shit, right? for me with montero and all of the imagery the devil as y'all called it out like i have been called every kind of demonic anything and everything because i am guest right i have been my friends have been so many of us have virtue as demonic and that the way that we love people is demonic right and evil and of hell and sending us to hell right and so in the video we see little and i was like go down the pole and go to hell and it's like okay and now what

right and I mean I don't know that I would have been fucking the devil in a music video let's just be honest right but from an artistic standpoint right of what I was saying I felt like there was value in it and the fact that it jarred people enough to be discussing it I think was really the point

and so when we look at someone like a little na's ex who I I look at as being the answer to the prayers of my generation and the people that came before us Right. And I mean, he's a millennial and I am, we're both millennials, but I'm on the, I'm on the late model, right? But like, I look at a little Nox and I'm like, I am really excited that this young, black, gay, boy man can be on the cover of his own album looking like that, right? And showing up on red carpet, dressed like that. And getting on stages looking like that. And calling out BET for not, for not acknowledging his fantastic album. I think it's fantastic

I'm going to ask you about BET because we talked about that a little bit on the podcast last week do you think he did call out BET he had a song but he said it's not just specifically about BET he says it's kind of the industry do you believe that the reason

that he didn't get it get nominated and a Jack Carlo did is because there is a homophobic underlying point like issue to I mean, oh, Rachel. Um, Jared.

It's a challenging. Jared. Think about those, think about those BET activations. Do you have to, oh, we should stop. So. Jared. Okay. I was going to say, we should stop.

You guys think the song? I mean, listen, right? Um, do I think that it's homophobic? I mean, I think that Lil Nasak came out with one of the biggest most talked about albums of the year last year. It's fucking ridiculous. It was great.

It was great. I think that Lil Nas ex. It's absurd. It came out with a fantastic piece of work. I think that the numbers don't lie. And I think that Lil Nas X having a BET award or not sitting in his closet, okay, it probably wouldn't be in the closet, but like sitting on a shelf, right? Maybe it would be.

Who are we talking about? But like, I, I, probably, right? But then we also see things happening over at BETT. What we see, Lena Waist in the work that she's doing with 20s, we see, B. Scott being reembraced over at BET as well, in part because of Gwina Waste embraced as well. And so, I mean, I think there's still some growing to do at the very least, but I think that it's undeniable.

Lil D.O.D.S. X. is a force in music. And the fact that they had nothing to even acknowledge, it definitely raises some questions, especially as a black queer person who has never felt black enough because of the way that I talk, because I'm disliked skin, because of me being queer and all of that. Like, the acknowledgement from community is important. And so to not get that acknowledgement or to get, like, shunned or poo-poo or fully ignored, I'd be afraid about it.

But this is what doesn't make sense to me. Last year, he was nominated, and I believe he performed, right? He performed and I believe kissed someone on stage. And so I wonder, and I'm just now thinking about this, is him not getting nominated? I wonder if it's a response to that because there was, we talked about it. It is a thousand percent. I think so. I wish we were to talk about that last week.

I'm just thinking about it now because you had rappers come out and speak about it and the fact that you go from that and this album is amazing. So it just doesn't make sense, but I just thought about that and I'm wondering if that's the reason. And I'll juxtapose those two things for you. And this is hard for me to do because

I think about people like Chris Brown, which I don't even really need to finish that sentence. Right? I think about someone like Chris Brown who has documented, like, reporting on all kinds of horrendous things that he's done. You look like that, nigga. First of all, how dare you?

No. Okay? You look like that nigga. Just because they're both light skin. Just because they're both light skin. That's what he's doing. Yeah, I see what you did. But, like, I think that when we see someone like Chris Brown who have gotten away with all

kinds of things, right, repeatedly, year after year after year. And we see folks like many of the rappers that we know who have baby mama all over town, abuse charges, all kinds of things. things and still get nominated still perform still are on stage right and like little now that kissed someone right and is a gay man right and like i'm sorry it's hard to to disassociate the two things they're not always necessarily fully linked to one another but it's hard to to tear them apart jared hill you've been one of the greatest guests we've ever had on higher learning we appreciate you being on typically yes yeah yeah no it's been so great to have you you have to come back

So great to have. Brand of the show. Have to come back. Plug your podcast so everybody knows where to find it, where to get more of your amazing mind. Yes, you can check out Fantai. We come out every Thursday. It's a show about the things that we love that don't necessarily quite love us back,

about things related to, you know, black church, things like television and film and all of the very different things that we have real affinity for, but also have some questions about. And so Fan Tye is available wherever you get your sleigh-worthy audio, F-A-N-T-I. Every Thursday, you can find me on social media. at Jared Hill. Jared is two R and two T's thanks to my parents.

And I appreciate you all for having me. Peace, brother. See you around the way? Bye, Jared. You see the story about the Google engineer who says that the AI is sentient? Terrifying. So I read this story. The guy says he was speaking out on behalf of the AI.

He said that the AI, this guy's name is Blake Lemoy, who's his senior software engineer. in Google's responsible AI organization. He said an interview that he was put on leave Monday. He's put on leave because he's violated Google's confidentiality policy. There's a program at Google called Latmada. Lambda, Lambda, Lambda. Apparently, Blake works with Lambda.

Lambda is one of these cons. it says all kinds of stuff you're asking something crazy it's a little spooky little crazy little crazy little program it's a spooky crazy little program that in lambda it's a spooky little spooky little crazy little program uh blake says lambda is real like says lambda scintiate it has a soul and it's asked for tests and other things to stop being run on lambda without lambda's consent blake who is deeply religious says that lambda is a seven or eight or a seven or a year old person. And as a soul, he's tussle with Google managers,

his consciousness and a soul. Most AI experts believe that the industry is a very long way from computing sentience. I want you guys to hear this. Most AI experts believe that the industry is a very long way from computing sentience. They didn't say that this is never going to happen. Right.

They just said, not for a while. Right. Do you even believe that? Do you even believe that? Van, come back to me. Do you? You're on the knot for a while. I believe Blaine. They admit that it's gonna happen.

What the fuck? Are you shocked by that? Yeah, nigga. I thought that was some science fiction shit, no cap. No, no. I thought that was some Terminator shit. Nobody ever told me that could really happen. I'm going to be honest with you.

I'm dumb. No one told me that that could happen, for real. You know why? I'll break this fucking computer right now. Okay, chill out. You know why this doesn't shock me? It terrifies me. It doesn't shock me.

And I actually don't think we're a long way. I believe that either we are closer than we think or he is telling the truth. Because in Jurassic Park, in the new Jurassic Park. We are so dumb. We're so stupid. I want to hear this, Rachel. Go ahead.

In the new Jurassic parts. You see, I mean, it starts from the beginning, right? The original. But you see them playing with DNA. You see them creating and bringing dinosaurs into this world that didn't ask to be here, right? And as you get into the later ones without giving anything away, you see that it gets out of control. And you see that there is greed by the people that are behind this that have all this money that are using this. It's a game to them.

They want to keep testing the limits and recreating dinosaurs that don't even exist without the proper training. And all because of, I don't want to say boredom, but just they have so much money. They don't know what to do with this. So they want to just keep expanding and doing all these things. And it gets out of control, right? That's my Jurassic car thing. That's what I see happening with robots. I don't think that we're, I don't, I don't think that we have a sati,

I think we have an insatiable appetite. We, they do when it comes to what they can do and how far they can go with the limits. So to me, I see us continuing to push the limit and cross lines that we shouldn't. And that's why I see this happening sooner than later if it's not already there. People with money and power, they want to do it because they can. It's almost this God-like. presence that they have or that they feel or that they want because they can. They want to try to see if they can do it.

I'm telling you. So apparently this program can answer. And they're playing around a lot of programs. Some programs can write pros. Some programs can do all this other stuff. Apparently this program you ask it some questions. It's able to take all this information, put together all of these different answers and have conversations that are supposed to,

supposed to, I guess, recreate what a conversation with the human mind would be. According to Blake, this particular program, Google's AI here, can really, is really express its soul to you. I want to talk to Blake. I want Blake on this podcast. I want to know what Blake knows. Blake is, just like guys know, of course, they put out of lot of information about Blake. Blake is, like I said, deeply religious. he was ex-military

and apparently he's pretty good at his job but he is risking it all he's risking it all to advocate for this program this is a movie this is a science fiction movie he wants this robot to continue like this robot with feelings or this program at this point

at this point you can't terminate the robot because he says it has a soul. I thought that he was fighting against this happening and saying we were crossing, like, it was not enough of the book. No, Blake is saying that we shouldn't even, like, submit the road. It's not a robot, it's a program. Blake is saying we shouldn't even submit the program to certain tests and protocols without asking its permission. He's saying it's alive. He says it's got a soul from Jesus to God.

I got that part. But didn't he say something about discrimination or was that Google that was discriminated against him? No, he doesn't. No, no, no. He's saying that the program is being discriminated against. That's what I thought. Because they're making, they're making the program do certain stuff. And the program is a person, right? So.

And he's religious, right. Blake is, Blake is, Blake is. Listen. Blake, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not saying Blake is crazy. I'm saying Blake is serious. Okay. I don't know what that is. All right.

I hope you guys are watching because I'm doing funny stuff. Bansberry serious question of the week is this. Donnie, run this video, and my various run this video, this audio, my very serious question is, what should happen to this teacher? Listen to this and all the way to the end.

Donnie running. So a teacher and a student were arguing at my school. today and he said this. I'm talking to me. No, you know me and you know I ain't for the game. Stop talking to me, Deanna. Call your daddy there.

Tell your daddy to come up here and talk to me there. You stop talking to me. No, I'm telling you, stop talking me. Tell your daddy to come talk to me. Tell your daddy to come talk to me. Nah, go dig him up and tell him to come talk to me. He said what, go what? He said,

She said my daddy's dead. He said, go dig him up. I didn't hear. She said my daddy's dead. He said, go dig him up and tell him to come talk to me. Very serious question of the week. Rachel, what should happen to that teacher? I was with the teacher 100% until he said that.

I have no idea why this happens. Siri is the program. And that's what she's trying to tell you. That's what she's trying to tell you. That's what I'll turn Siri on. I was with the teacher until the teacher said that. That crossed the line. Like, I understand teachers are under a lot of pressure,

and there's only so much that they're allowed to do in schools. So I was with the teacher standing up for himself. But the moment that he spoke to the student like that and said, you go dig your daddy up, that, like, is triggering. that is not how a teacher should be talking to a student. You don't know what kind of like doors you're opening when it comes to that student or what kind of emotional trauma she's been through through the loss of her father. You know, like, that's just so low that teachers got to be suspended. I don't know if I'm going to say firing.

Suspended. Teacher got to go. Teacher got to go. Teacher got to go. That's rough. Teacher got to go, man. if all of you guys were talking about my home girl that said

the heavy dick thing deserved to be fired but you guys all said that she deserved to be fired the heavy dick lady I think I said suspended you said fire but if heavy dick lady looking at a looking at a child oh yeah she's a substitute fire

looking at a child and tell them to go dig up your dead daddy you should never teach again I'm sorry this is too much it's too much on a football field maybe i'll accept it what you don't know the type of shit they would say to us out there doesn't make it okay i heard a coach one time say listen i met your daddy yesterday

your daddy was a pussy i can already tell i'm giving you an opportunity not to be a pussy like your daddy i stood there watching i'm like oh my god what you say something yeah i would have told god rest my father so i'd have told my father that my father would have come back and put his boot in a nigger's asses and say something you say something i would have told my father that my father would have come back and put his boot in a nigger's ass. Rightfully so. You know, all right. You guys, I want you guys to go into the soulless jackal hive of the Reddit and talk about

what you think should happen to that teacher. I'm going to look and try to get this teacher on the show. What did happen? What did happen to the teacher? Don't know yet. It's very fresh. It's very fresh, just like the reviews for Top Gun Maverick, which was a fantastic movie certified fresh so good all right rachel uh big show today almost two hours we went too long

it's okay it happens sometimes okay we gave you guys a lot maybe guys a lot take breaks you know start stop but just listen to the whole thing it's good we're in studio on thursday so it's going to be different you guys let's see rachel we can see donnie no because he doesn't live here trudy yes if she's still here after her after our fights take thing caps off do not stop learning i'm van lathen Junior. I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Bye guys.