Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Gender Wars: David Justice and Halle Berry, Plus S.A. Cosby’s ‘King of Ashes’

Episode Date: August 12, 2025

Halle Berry’s ex-husband David Justice sparks a gender war after speaking on their divorce. Then, New York Times bestselling author S.A. Cosby joins to discuss his latest novel, ‘King of Ashes’. (0:00)  Intro (0:32)  Van’s Very Serious Question (20:55)  Trump deploys National Guard (25:49)  Shedeur Sanders’ NFL Debut (46:35)  Nancy Mace fact checked (58:05)  David Justice on divorcing Halle Berry  (1:33:08)  S.A. Cosby joins the show (2:04:29)  Israel-Gaza updates Host: Van Lathan Jr. and Rachel Lindsay Guest: S.A. Cosby Producer: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, thought warriors. Her learning is on. Live Van Lathen, Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. I have a question for you. Go for it. Donnie and Ashley. What's up?

I haven't been able to figure this question out even. The BP, the biracial paradox. We're back here. We never left. I just stopped bringing it up on the podcast. I'm obsessed with biracial. It's the way they move, where they go, who they talk to. Clearly.

Who they caught this with. Is Zoe Kravitz biracial? Yes. Tell me why. Well, both of her parents are biracial. Both of her parents are black. Her parents are biracial, so therefore she is. Okay, so if you are a biracial, are you black?

Well, I think so. Well, if you're biracial, as in black and white, yes, I believe that you're black. Can you be both biracial and black? I mean, this, I'm not biracial, so I can't answer these questions. This is more a BBI question. Leader of your BBI is biracial. Yeah, well, she's not the leader.

Or she's black. But she's on the triumphant. We don't have a. Okay, excuse me. So here's the thing. One of the founders. One of the founders. You, both of her parents are black.

Typically, when you're a biracial, you have a black parent and you have a white parent. Right. And then that makes a biracial who also identifies as black. But if both. both of her parents are black, she has two black parents, and then they created someone who is black. It should be, this is the equation. Two blacks make a black.

Now, if she had a parent that was biracial and then black would be different. But now, I'm not sure what to say about it. Why are you not claiming them as biracial? Because the question is, when does the term biracial, come in. I think it's how you identify. Okay. So then is the,

are you then either biracial or black? I, okay. I think it's, this is up to a person who has a black and white parent, whether they go by biracial, mixed race,

whatever. Okay. It's, black is how you identify, right? So some people just say biracial, right? So people don't like to say

black. Right. So if someone identifies as biracial, are they culturally black? Do they say the N-word and hang out with blacks and the yo-yo-j-Z type shit? Are they

culturally black? Like, do they come... What do they look like? Well, it doesn't matter. Forget about that. We're talking about what, because it's, you have all different tribes of biraciales. You have your Halliberry biratials, which when I was growing up, we'll get to her later on. When I was growing up, I didn't even realize that Hallie Barry

was biracial until deep into the game. Why are you so fascinating? by, like this is definitely a you thing. Why are you so fascinated how biracial people identify? There's an answer to the question, but it's going to make me look like an asshole. I think people, they have to know because you keep bringing up the topic. I'm curious.

Because culture is such a devastating weapon. Okay. It's a soothing thing, but it's a devastating weapon. and what you normally don't have in culture are people who can opt in and opt out of it based upon these arbitrary rules that we've created. So a lot of times when we're talking about culture or we're talking about what people can and cannot do,

what bothers you, what doesn't bother you, it's really based around a set of really arbitrary rules that we've created. They're not arbitrary, but in the grand scheme of things they are, things that we've created to feel culturally safe. Like, it's all technology that's created to feel culturally safe. If you walk into a place and people are doing a certain thing and you know that they're doing it authentically, you go, I feel a little bit safer around these people doing this same thing

that I do because I know that I won't be hurt by them. But you don't know that, but you feel safer. This is why the whole thing of the barbecue cookout, whatever came up, because it's like, what people are really saying about who we can invite to the barbecue and cookout when they're talking about white people, it's who we can invite to the barbecue or cookout and feel safe with them being there. Right.

So, I mean, even though none of those people, you should feel safe around. So the biracial thing is interesting because it goes back to us adhering to the one drop rule, which was created in devastatingly direct white supremacy, right? But us feeling safe around people that are black. But then those people were like, well, we don't really want to be black. Not all the time, at least. Yeah, you're generalizing here. Well, if you make the decision to call yourself biracial,

then you're certainly making a decision to not call yourself black. What if people say both? That's the question, Rachel. Because, like, I think there are people that say, I'm biracial, I'm black. I'm sure there are people who say that. That's absurd. Okay. I mean, the reason I hate having this conversation so much

just because we shouldn't. Why? Because I think we sound honestly silly talking about it because neither one of us are that. But we're black though. We are black. That's a different conversation. Like if we're sitting here talking to someone

who identifies as biracial, but then they don't identify as black or they do, that's a question to have. But I feel, I don't know, You love talking about it. And I feel very uncomfortable talking about it because there has to be so much generalization involved in. And everything is like it's, there's no objective way to talk about it because there are so many different ways that biracial people, you know, see themselves or not see themselves, but just like, are they, are they, do they call themselves biracial? Do they call themselves mixed race?

Do they call them, do they identify as black? Do they not? Like it's just, I just hate having this conversation. I feel like it never goes anywhere. It never goes anywhere because you refuse to have it. I won't stop. Here's the deal. It's, this is the deal.

I'm willing to have a conversation about anyone that claims to be black. Because we have this conversation all the time. We have this conversation about when people should be able to use certain terms, when people should give cultural deference to certain things. what people should do and what people shouldn't do. You're going to act as a cultural, racial, hall monitor all the time, but you're not going to act as that or even have questions about that when it deals with somebody

who is black, but is also not black. So it's a weird thing, because to me, if we're going to have a conversation, to me, having a conversation about this, and this is just a fun question, because I don't know if there's a true answer, right? Is she biracial? She's still half white, but she comes from two black people. But you keep saying she comes from two black people,

but both her parents have black and white parents. They're both black, though. So you don't believe that biracial people are black. Well, this is what I'm saying. They are mixed. But are they black? Do they identify as black? I look at them as black.

Absolutely. So what you're saying is... When I see a black and white person, if you are half black and half white, I look at you as black. But are you black, though? To you? That is, to me, yes.

So, but to them, they can decide whether or not they want to be black or not. The reason, do I think they can? I mean, anybody can do anything. And the only reason I leave it open for them to be able to decide is because I have seen people who are half black and half white not want to say they're black. Does it bother you? Yes. So then you're making a determination. I already said I did.

I already said I did. I said, if you are half black and half white, I see you as black. Okay, so let me ask you a question. Since it bothers you, that's how I see you. What does it say that it bothers you? Well, what does it say that it bothers me? Yeah. I don't know if I can say what it says that it bothers me,

but something that you mentioned when you talked about the opting in and out, that's the part that bothers me. So I feel like, I don't know what it says about me, but I do have a problem with you being half black and half white. You are, I see you as black. Why are you hymn and hon? You know what it says about you? It says that you know they're black.

They're black. Well, I see that. But I see that. But I also. They're black. But I, I, I, that is me putting my thing on you. If you don't want to identify as black, I'm not, I, then don't, then don't be black. But the world sees you as black.

Don't be black then. Do you want, let me, let me ask you this. This is, this is, this is, do you want somebody? No, no, no, do you, if, if, if, I've already said that if you are half black and half white, I see you as black. But if you don't want to identify as black. black, then go, then don't and go be over there. That's a personal issue to you. Have you ever criticized someone

that was biracial because they didn't identify with their blackness? I, oh, we don't, you don't even need a tiptoe around it. I 100% had an issue with a former bachelorette who did not want to be called black. Right. I was instructed to not say black. I was instructed to say African American and Mexican American. Because I feel like you look at it almost as like a perversion to be identified as black. And if you don't, but if you do whatever they want, you just said it's like, they go, they can be whoever they want to be.

Exactly. And if you do want to do that, then go do that over there. Where's over there? Where's over there? Away from me. In the fields? Away from me. You, you're, you're, you're, what I'm saying is, what I'm saying is, I know how you feel about this because I know how most people feel about this. And I don't know why you're doing the extra. I'm literally not. I literally said, I see you this way. However, if you want to identify not as black, cool. And you'll be bothered.

Go do that over there. Yeah. Like, because I look at it. I look at it as you are, you, you feel that there's something wrong about saying black. I do, I deeply feel that. Right, which is probably true. That's why I'm down for the forcing. So, which is probably true.

I'm not going to force you. I'm down for the force. You're not for me. I'm down for saying, hey, you pop up at the P. to you wards, you're doing stuff, you're a black lady. The question remains. Zoe Kravitz, two biracial

parents, right? Right, two biracial parents, whatever. Is she biracial or is she black? Is she biracial? Do biracial's make a biracial? What about the biracial equation? I don't know about this part, but if you want me to get down to the nitty-gritty of how I feel about it, I already did that. No, I'm not. I'm already did that. You're afraid of the biracial. Do byracials have their own organization?

The beige panthers? Tracy. Are they, do they have? I'm not to call Tracy. I know they got the Black Panthers. Do they have the beige pants? But they're not all beige. Stop doing that.

Not they're not all beige. I get uncomfortable when you objectify. Sorry, not objectify. I mean, when you speak of it in an objective way. Like I get that, that makes me uncomfortable. Why? Because you're, it's like just like black people don't like. to be talked, you know, referred to as if they're a monolith and they're all the same.

Don't do that with biracial people either. It makes me uncomfortable. But here's the thing, though. The reason the BBI is created and Tracy is a part of it because she herself has an issue with certain biracials. Right. Because they're not all the same. But here's the thing, though. This is the last thing I'll say before we move on. This is a way to get us going before we get into the real issues of the day. This is what I'll say. Oh, God, Donnie sent something. Keep going to go. What are you saying? What are you saying? What he's saying? Let's see it.

Mixed in America.org. Oh, my God. Let's put it up on here. Thank you, Donnie. A community organization looking to have a more nuanced conversation about race in America, specifically through the multiracial lens. We got to have them. How are the mixed community?

There's nothing wrong with that. By facilitating supportive spaces for mixed individuals to explore and unpack their identities. Mixed in America offices. offers services for adults, children, affinity schools, and businesses. Our approach is

trauma-informed, holistic, inclusive, and autonomous. They got workshops and courses. They got one-on-one sessions. They got schools and businesses. All because they can't come to terms

with the fact that they kind of want to be white. So. All because they got... I'm not going to do that part with you. Hold on. They have come up with a complete organization to come to terms. with the fact that they don't want to be all the way black.

That's not true. That's not true. Because first off, this organization isn't just for black and white. It's mixed. If you look at it, it's not just the black and white people. I will never agree with you that this organization exists because they can't come to the terms with wanting to identify as white. Like I'm reading it. Like I have to do an interview later today.

With who? For morally corrupt. This girl named Sheena Shea. she is half Mexican. And she talks about how her dad, who's Mexican, wasn't a part of her life. And her two parents are, have blonde hair, blue eyes.

And she doesn't look like that. And how she talks about growing up and how she wasn't Latina enough in this group and wasn't wide enough for this group. And I hear people, a lot of mixed people talk about this, how, like, they don't know how to fit in. So I think this group is for that. And I'm just not going to say, like, you can laugh, you can joke.

I will never say the things that you're saying about mixing biracial people. I used to be teased for being black. I used to be teased for being black. Now I'm not black enough because I'm not acting tough but making songs up by where I'm actually from. Who says that? Drake. I figured. I figured.

And I felt him. I figured. I felt him. When he said that, he was like, I used to get, that's a. actually a hard bar. That's like Drake can actually do the introspective Drake thing where he talks about his actual life. Just to be teased for being black, but I'm not black enough because I'm not acting tough for making stories about where I'm actually from. You know what I'm saying?

And then what did he do? Well, here's a deal. But he said, let me start making up some stories. But here's a deal though. Here's a deal. Because it's hard to stay in that space of vulnerability with people when you're talking about that type of stuff. It's hard to stand that space because people go, niggas, you black or not. Okay? You're saying the N-word and all of that. Is you black or not? You cool with us? You cool.

It's cool. It's, you know, it's funny? And this is the last thing I'll say about it. It's just funny to me. It's just funny. I'm from Louisiana. Home of the Creoles. Home of the Creos.

A lot of Creos who are now going viral for saying that they're not really black, right? Oh, is that a thing? Is that a thing? Well, there was a time when they weren't. There was a time in Louisiana, the history of Louisiana. There were three very distinct racial classes.

that had different rights. There were black people, there were white people, and there were Creole people. The Creole people were either, yeah, I mean, there are places like that exist everywhere, right? The Creole people were either kind of black or kind of white, depending on how you look at it, right? The interesting thing is, as black identity,

black diasporic unity, the idea of what it meant to be black on a global scale continue to solidify itself, those identifications, they disintegrated because there was such strength, such power, such clarity

in the identification of being black. There was no longer, even with all of the pitfalls and discrimination and oppression that came with it, there was a direct POV, a point of view, that came with being black.

We started to understand and the depth of great black art, great black technology, great black science, great black history, all of those things that were being denied, particularly to enslave people everywhere who didn't really know all of that stuff

about their history and their culture and all of that. It started to become something that there was strength and power in being black. Then we got to a point to where it was like, yeah, but I got a white mama. So let me figure it out on that, which is cool,

which is cool. I get it. So they othered themselves. And I wonder why. No, no, no, no. The person who other themselves, you know why. Well, no, I don't. I don't.

You tried to tell me I knew why. Well, no. This is what I'm saying. I know why and what they're doing, but I don't know the cultural genesis of it. So I know why they're doing it. They're doing it because they don't quite want to be black. I know why. But when we're talking about, when I'm talking about this through the lens of a

cultural determination. I don't know why after we built black culture to this amazing, beautiful, powerful thing, I don't know what happened culturally. I know what happened individually. People were like, well, I'm kind of white. So I would like to be that too. Cool. Fine. But I don't know what happened individually to this group. Like, I don't know why this group exists. I don't know what happened individually. I don't know if it was the internet, which made all the tragic mulattoes find each other. I don't know if it was. I don't know what it was

that made this happen. If it was the fact that they collectively went to stores and then did not have product for their type of hair. They couldn't use main and tail and they couldn't use pantine ProV hot oil treatment. And they didn't

see anything there for them. So I don't know what happened culturally. That I don't know. I do know that it is a sort of rejection of blackness. No, it is not. There's no sort of. It's a rejection of blackness. But I don't know why the cultural movement started. So that's what I'll say. But I'm always interested in. You didn't answer the question. What was the, which part? I thought I did. What did on that answer?

Bi-racial or not she biracial. Zoe Kravitz is half white and half black. Rachel's made the determination about Zoe Kravitz. Donnie, what do you think? I don't have an opinion. Johnny, we, we, we, we, you know what? Let me, I may just I just think one bir racial show per month. Donnie, you need an opinion. You need to have an opinion.

I just need one by racial show per month. No, he punts a lot because and look, everybody punts or comes on a podcast and afraid to say a true opinion. I don't want to piss off the biratials. Don't want somebody running up to them and, you know, struggling them with curling hair. I just, I haven't thought.

I honestly, honestly, don't care enough I think about this specific topic to contribute. You and you both, Don't. I don't want to wait to start warriors time. You're a liar. You're a liar. If you're, if I'm going to be forced, either I just sit here, let you rant,

or I have to participate in the conversation. You care, though, because you cared enough to, to, you cared enough to make an issue about it, about when something actually happened and you cared about the old girl from the bachelor. Well, that is a, that is something personal. Bachelor, which is Baratial City, by the way. That, that is something personal that I had to deal with and that I could not understand. So, yes, I can tell a personal story. Right.

You're scared about it. But I don't. Can I ask you a question? Like, do you feel responsible for the fact that the bachelor went? You was too, you was too black for them? I was too black. And so they was like, no more. It feels that way.

But then they had, but then they had charity. No, that is what happened. Yeah. But then they had charity who's black. Yeah. So after that they went, they was like, we're not going full on anymore. And they made a determination. It took some years for them to come back.

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See terms at bandwold.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash herms. Donald Trump spoke today. He had a press conference. He announced that he's going to take federal control of the police department in D.C. And deploying 800 National Guard troops to fight crime there. This is coming after a member of the Doge reported being beaten. Big balls. In an attempted carjacking.

He shared a photograph of the victim on social media and he wrote, If D.C. doesn't get his act together and quickly, we will have no choice but to take federal control of the city. Rachel. He already deployed, what, a thousand national guard? Yeah. So, I mean, there are several things that play. I think Trump has been waiting for an opportunity to do something like this.

He's been threatening that about D.C. for a very long time. Obviously, this is, I feel like it's, it's unprecedented in the sense that this is not, this isn't the insurrection. you're not doing this because there's some sort of disaster or some emergency response. You're doing it based off of this. And I'm not taking away from the fact that this guy was, you know, harmed. And, you know, justice should be taken care of in that instance. But it doesn't call for you deploying the National Guard.

I also think that this is a distraction. I think this is a distraction from all the other things that Trump is doing internationally and here. And this is just another one of his things to take control in the way. that he's trying to do in this term. Yeah. I mean, there's really not, I mean, this is all happening now in real time. Yeah, I don't give a fuck about what happened to this guy.

That shit happens to people. Well, right. And it shouldn't be. Like, whatever, shit happens. I will say this. Real quick, we don't have to say this long. Anybody that tells you that crime is one at all time highs in America right now, is just simply lying to you.

You guys can do this research on your own. right we had to Reese Castle in the show a long time ago she was talking about the

gangs inside of the L.A. Sheriff's Department right and I remember I misspoke on there talking about the fact that

crime is up because we were going through COVID at the time and there was a a spiking crime during COVID of course

there was spike in crime everybody knows that right she goes actually crime is down and if you look at the trajectory of crime in America

throughout the last three or four decades, the crime that we're experiencing right now in contemporary America pales in comparison. Like pale, we're talking about like times where cities were having over 1,000 murders, 1,400 murders to the 80s and the 70s and into the mid to late 60s. Like, it pales in comparison to it.

Like, if you were to compare, not even so much year over year, but decade over decade, five-year peer over five-year, period, the country continues to get safer and safer. Right. Anybody that is denying that for any reason whatsoever, they're doing it to whip you up so that they can take more controlling power.

That's the bottom line. Even D.C., I was on CNN and we were talking about this. Carjackings, what happened to big balls there, down 37% since the spike that we saw from COVID. DC itself, if people think that DC is a dangerous place now, DC itself was insanely dangerous. There was lore and story about the drug dealing and the murders that were happening because of the drug dealing

in DC mid-to-late 80s, all until the early to mid-90s. Why do I bring that up? I'm saying it says nothing to do with the crime in D.C. And anyone who is telling you that American crime, is in such a dire, ridiculous, aggressively violent situation that they have to take over a city is lying to you. The question isn't whether or not they're lying.

The question is why they're lying. That's the question. So this is actually not like a big deal, like 30 year load, blah blah, blah, all that stuff. This is not even a big, the question is why, you guys know why there are a bunch of reasons why Trump is seeking to understand and then push the limits of presidential power. Of course. Without taking the consideration anything else. And this is also a good thing to do to get people's minds off of the fact that Donald Trump doesn't want us to know who the powerful petal files in the country are.

And whatever he has to do, they said that they were going to put a nuclear reactor on the moon. A nuclear react. You didn't see that? nuclear reactor on the moon. You guys, it doesn't matter. Trump is going through a hole, but it's going to get crazier and crazier because he don't want to put the files out.

Donnie next thing. All right. Football is back. Shedore Sanders had his first start. Precenaed the game number one for the Browns. Played pretty well. He played in about three quarters, a little bit less than three quarters. Completed 14 to 238 yards,

and two TDs had 19 rushing yards. You laughing at him? What are you all think? Donnie said he threw for 138 yards. Leave Donnie alone. He threw for 138 yards. 138 passing yards for the Cleveland Browns. There you go.

That's better. Did you watch? I watched the first half. That's the only football I watched, which doesn't that say a lot? That I was, I mean, Cowboys played here and I still was not even amped about it. You see what happened to CD-Land? So let's talk about Shador. Bram right up is.

Back. So I was talking about referee. We can't afford anything else. I have to go to a premiere to night for Cowboys documentary.

Cowboys documentary. What is it called? We ain't one since Tupac was alive? It's really centered around Jerry. Jerry Jones? What's it called?

It's called I hate niggers. The Jerry Jones story. It's called America's team, the gambler and the Cowboys. Oh, my God. You know what's probably

His Cowboys. His Cowboys. His Cowboys. The problem with the Cowboys, I'm going to talk about this a little bit later. I don't want to talk about this. Well, no, I'm going to talk about after we get to Glazer the Week, after we do the Glaze a week, I'm going to talk a little bit about what it means to actually get glazed. The problem with the Cowboys, the real problem with the Cowboys is y'all won't get off your own dicks.

It's not us. It's him. If the Cowboys, no, Cowboys fans are like this too. If the Cowboys fans could get off their own dicks for a little while and literally take a bird's eye view at the organization and at the Cowboys history and who the Cowboys really are, it might help them make some tough decisions about winning,

but they can't get off their own dicks, and that's the reason why the Cowboys haven't won a Super Bowl since Tupac since Hit them up was playing in the clubs prominently. Cowboys haven't won a Super Bowl because they've been highly mismanaged, and there's a lot of ego and pride there. And that's not a fan.

Because they're the Cowboys. It's not, it's because of who's making the decisions. Right. that, I mean, like, literally, as Donnie pointed out, he correct me, I said, Gambler and the Cowboys, and he goes, his Cowboys. A possessive, a possessive cow is in front of the Cowboys, is. I don't think that Cowboys fans treat Jerry Jones, like other fan bases treat bad owners. I think they give him a pass. I think that they revere him and they kiss a little dick.

I think other fan bases that have bad owners, if you're talking about like, the Knicks with James Dolan. If you're talking about the Clippers with Donald Sterling. If you're talking about it, what do you mean? Yeah, I mean, I think. Donald Sterling was a bad. Before we even knew Donald Sterling was a racist, he was notoriously wasn't as bad as a sports.

I just don't think that you're as tapped in with the Cowboys fans because I'm telling you they are very much so disillusioned with Jerry Jones. But what all can you do? You know what I mean? Like I am and I'm going to the premiere tonight. See? Networking. See what I'm saying?

See, y'all too Hollywood. Y'all Hollywood, y'all Hollywood right in the middle of the house. Back to Shador, though. But Shador, I mean, to the point I was making is the only game I watched this weekend, I wanted to make sure that I, the moment I saw that he was playing his, his own music walking into, I was like, I got to, I got to tune in at least for the first half to see what Shador does. But I think that says a lot about who he is as a player, not just what he does on the field,

but off the field and the interest that people have. not a Browns fan by any means. But I think this is one of the most exciting things that has happened to in a long time, for the right reasons, when it comes to the Cleveland Browns. I mean, I guess people were excited when Baker Mayfield came,

but there is excitement whether he's good or not. People are tapped in. There were people in the audience that were wearing Colorado jerseys. There were people wearing Chador's jerseys. That's who people came to see and what they were talking about. So for me, I,

you know, I mean, he did, He's no interceptions. You know, he had a solid performance. This was the biggest stage, I feel like, that he's played on. He showed up. He rose to the occasion. And he did well. He wasn't too cocky.

Even in postgame, the way that he would talk about it, he was so appreciative of the opportunity that he had. And we know that he got it because two of the quarterbacks are injured right now. So he was able to step in. He played against some Panthers starters. I think that that should be acknowledged to. So it's not like he was just like playing against every. everybody he was playing against was trying to make the team.

He was playing up against some starters on defense. And he did well. He didn't look like he was phased or anything. So it couldn't have gone better. I mean, yeah, he could have had better stats, but, like, it couldn't have gone better for him. Were you familiar with the narrative that was happening before the game? What was, what, name?

So the narrative before the game from a lot of people was that he was being set up to fail. Oh, well, yeah. Because he wasn't getting repped. Yeah, yeah, in training camp. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's getting reps with the third teamers, and so he's going to go in there, and he's going to throw the ball all around the stadium,

get picked off four times, get sacked 12 times, and then it was going to be actually the fall of the team that was setting Chador up to fail because they don't want him to be successful because for some reason the team doesn't want to have good quarterbacks on the roster. The only push, he could have been,

and that could have been a thing. The only reason I would push back on that is because picking and Gabriel, have injuries. So I think that if they hadn't, we would have seen them go in and play in the game. And I don't know if Shador would have been able to play at all. So the reason I can't

say, oh, they sent him up to fail, well, they weren't going to play Flacko? Yeah, Flaccoe's not going to play. He's been in a week, 20 years. So he's not going to... So they were... So I... So this is what I'll say. Great game. Shador Sanders is quickly going to become my

favorite athlete. It's going to be easy. I don't think I've ever rooted for anyone to succeed as much as what I'm going to be rooting for Shador Sanders to succeed because he's got that thing that you can't really teach, which is that he gets under a motherfucker skin. I feel like the Caitlin, as a Shador Sanders believer, I feel like the Caitlin Clark fans. feel because Shadur everything he does, people want to watch it because you have to have an opinion about him

to have an opinion about you have to have an opinion on Shadour Sanders. It's too fundamental to too many things. It's a conversation about nepotism. It's a conversation about talent. It's a conversation about being black in America, ego, black culture. It's a conversation

there's too many different things that are caught up in the Shador Sanders Zykeyes for you to just be like, I don't care. I don't care. Well, do people hate on Shadour because he's black or do people hate on Shadour because he is cocky? And do people take cockiness from a black athlete

differently in a way than the way they take cockiness from a white athlete? All of these things are ripped up into one. But I can tell you one thing. When he plays one, well, it bothers people. It bothers people so much. When he plays well,

it gets under people's skin. It irritates them. Yeah. And I like that. Now, I'll be honest with you, during the Colorado days in terms of college football, there were times when I was like,

Colorado as a team has to prove more for us to be as obsessed with Colorado as what we are. They have to prove more. They have to do more. They have to be more dominant or whatever. Chador, though, when he was in college, made throws and made plays

and was one of the toughest motherfuckers I haven't seen on the football field, college football field. You could not say. What are things about, he's a kid. Obviously, sometimes, you know, what time is it to watch stuff, all of that stuff, whatever. Maybe you don't do that as much

if the team wasn't winning. Maybe you could be upset about that if you want to be. Don't bother me. It's like talking shit. But now that he's in the pros, away from my beloved college football, right? Now that he's in the pros, I'm fucking with him.

So I, you know, I also wonder how much does the media put Dion Sanders personality on Chador? How much of it is that there's assuming because Dion's a certain way or Dion's so outspoken that they're placing, oh, well, the Chador's just like that too. And they pick apart every little thing the Chador does because he's Deon's Sander's son and they just assume that he's going to do things just like Dion. I think that there's an unfairness that exists between him. But I'm like you. I'm rooting, or between the two, I'm rooting for him.

I want to see him do well. I think him going in the fifth round was the best thing that could happen for him because he's never been in this type of position before. And it's kind of fight or flight of situation for him. Like he, I think it is empowering him, empowering him to do better and to be better and to prove people wrong. Can I be honest with you? Can I stop you for a second? Jump in as I doesn't really do.

That's actually not true. Which part? He's always had to prove it. It's not like Shadour Sanders came out of high school and he was a top 10 ranked. This is another part of his story that people don't really pay attention to. It's not like Shadoura Sanders came out of high school

and he was a five-star top-10 ranked quarterback that could go anywhere he wanted to go and do anything he wanted to do. That's actually not true. Shadour Sanders came out of school and I think he was going to Florida Atlantic had it not been for Deion taking the job at Jackson State. Shador Sanders was not a blue chipper by any

in any way, shape, or form. He went to Jackson State, played really well. And then when he went to Jackson State and played really well, people, when he got to Colorado, were like, definitely like, he's not going to be able to do it at Colorado. That he was playing HBCU, FCS football, and it was going to be a rude awakening for him, root awakening for him when he got to Colorado.

And it just wasn't. Okay, so here's what I mean about this. I'm not saying he was a top five recruit. What I'm saying is he had being Dion Sanders' son, there was an opportunity for him. You talked about when you talk about conversations around him, nepotism, that wouldn't have been

if he was not Dionne Sanders son, he would have been at Florida Atlantic University and he wouldn't have had the stage, his father, the attention, all of that. or even have the capability to train a certain way that he can because he's Dion Sanders' son. So yes, he went to Jackson State,

but there's still the Dion Sanders bubble that's around him. He had the same thing when he went to Colorado. There was the height. There was Dion who was like the machine behind him and everything that came with it. Now you're with, Dion's not there. You're in the NFL. Owners, GM, they have to pick you.

And a lot of people feel like he should have gone. higher, but he went, it's out of Dion's control. He went fifth round. It is more Shedorf, I feel like, the perception I have on his own more than ever. And I think that that is like, I don't need my dad. I can do this by myself. I'm deserved to be here. And it's just a little different to me, is what I'm saying. I take the point, I take the point that he was going to play when his father was the head coach. However, I will say, every single level of

football that he's been asked to prove his skill as a player. Prove his skill as a player. He was asked to prove it at Jackson State played really well. He was asked to prove it at Colorado was legitimately the only thing that they had. Actually, they had Travis Hunter. They had Jimmy Horn. They had some talent at the skill positions. But to watch them, they played a game against.

I think it was North Dakota State, which is the FCS team, but it's like a really high quality of FCS team. And you start to look in the trenches and you're like, Colorado's having problems competing with him. Like Colorado had nothing in the trenches. They had nothing on really the backside of the defense either. Right. So what I'm saying is he has, as far as a football player,

as far as a football player, he's proved it whenever he's gone. Wherever he's gone, he's proved the fact that he's a quarterback that can stand in there and make plays, make throws. And he's very tough and a good leader. He's proved it wherever he's going. Whether or not he gets a chance to prove it in the NFL won't have anything to do with his dad. That's true. However, I will say this.

Another thing, he acts like Dionne Sanders. And that's, and that's as bad. Yeah, he is. To be, he's not, he's not, he's not as bad as Dion. He asks like Dion. I'm not saying he's not, he doesn't have, man, I'm not saying he's not cocky, but he ate Dion. Shoulder, he, he, and I think that's another thing. Dionne Sanders was a can't miss once in a generation athlete.

It's a joke how good, how naturally gifted Dionne Sanders was. So when you have somebody that's running like a 401, 4244DR dash, who can play baseball, who can play football, who can do anything, who can play for the Yankees, who can play for the Braves, who can play for the Hawks, who can do. all of this stuff, you sort of get, not the Hawks of Falcons. I was like, so he played basketball now? I was just going to let you have it. Dionne. You know what, Dionne.

I was going to let you have it. Dionne once said that he could get 11 points a game and the NBA at his athletic height and I'm not so sure that I don't agree with him. Way to back up the hawks playing. But keep going. I just made him saying. But when you look at the entire deal,

you understood Dion's cockiness. Sure. And I think a lot of times we, not a lot of times, we always, if you are really cocky but really special, we deal with it. A lot of people have a problem with your doer. Probably still have a problem with you do it

because he is being cocky and incredibly confident. And it seems as if he's doing that because he is Dionne Sanchez. Right. Some of it for sure. He learned it from his father. He learned it.

And there's nothing that America likes to do more than humble a nigger. That's America's favorite pastime. America's favorite pastime is not the sport that Dion played. It's not baseball. It's not football. America's favorite pastime is humbling a nigger. Let me come show you why you ain't what you thought you was. and when they don't get the chance to do that,

I like it. So I want Shdor to throw for 3,500 yards this season, 19 touchdowns, nine picks, you know, I want him to keep waving the fucking watch in their face because I want them to be mad. And this is what I'll say for the Cleveland Browns as a bit from a business perspective. I think it would be ridiculous for them not to keep.

keep him on the team just because, like I started off saying, I'm not a Browns fan and I even was tuned in and tapped in. So many people are watching, whether they're hate watching or because they're a fan, they are. His jerseys are selling out like crazy. There is money to be made. And I don't understand. I know he's fourth string.

I know they got six, six quarterbacks over there, something like that. It's a him, Gabriel. I thought it was four. And then I thought, I could have sworn. Gabriel, Flacko. Pickett. Pickett. Who else they got, Donnell?

I feel like there was, because I thought there were four. I thought there were four or five. But. Oh, they got Deshawn Watson on the roster. Oh, yeah. They got the Sean Watson on the roster. There's somebody else, I think. But anyways, the point being, it would be ridiculous for them not to.

And if they don't, that is them humbling him. What do you mean? If they don't keep him, it's because they're doing their favorite passes. He's got to earn it. He's got to play his way on. So if he would have come out here right now and thrown for... I'm saying after this game. If he's going to 719...

So you think with this game he's earned a roster spot. So I don't want to put too much weight on one game, but at least he's shown you what he can do in the pros. Before that, you couldn't say that. So he could have bad game the next week. They could decide... And then the other two weeks, they could decide not to play him because Gabriel is healed off this hamstring and pick it or whatever.

They might put them in. I still think he did enough to say he can do it. He was calm, cool, collected. He's played now. They should keep him on the team. Look, I would have to get an NFL guy on here to know exactly what gets you on a roster, particularly that quarterback. But if I was the owner of the Browns, I'd keep him just because it gets people going, man.

You know what I'm saying? That's what I, yeah. I know, but I don't know. I can't say that for this one game that he's earned a spot in the NFL. You would think that this would go a long way. but I don't know. I think that with the other stuff. I will say this.

Man, Chador, don't let us down, bro. You can't do it now. Now, before I wasn't, after watching this game, after watching a lot of black media, they prebaked the Shador situation. They prebaked it. They were like, they put him in the position to fail

just in case he didn't do well. Of course. But then he even fucked over it in by the fact that he performed well. Actually, if you say, said that they put your door in a position to fail, he actually fucked over you most of all.

Because he went out and he was like, now, speak for me, nigger. Like, you don't know what I got in to speak. Don't talk for me, nigga. I'm sure doer fucking. Don't talk for me, nigga. I go out there and I bawl. You don't speak for me. Whatever has to happen.

Do you see what he was talking to the guy after? It's like, you don't never say nothing positive for me. That's Dion. That's Dion. That's Dion. That's Dion shit. I loved it. Dion and we should say this. Prayers up for Prime. I hope that Dion Sanders is covered by God in his walk back to health.

He's healthy. He's going to be coaching. Prayers up for Prime. We should say that. But one of the funniest moments of, I think it was either last college football season or the college football season before, Dion's given a press conference.

Maybe it's after they beat TCU. So maybe it's the first season. And Dion goes, the guy stands up and he asks Deon the question, he goes, you believe now? He goes, believe in what? And he goes, oh, you don't believe. I'm watching the press conference. I'm like, the dude is a sports writer.

He's not supposed to believe in the team. The belief in the team, that's a conversation you have with your sinner or your office of guard or your tackle. You're not supposed to ask the press. Like, either you believe in us or you don't believe. believe in this. It's their job to not believe in you. It's their job to look at what they're doing and what you're doing and then report on it.

So that was funny. A Dion demanded belief from the press. It's funny. It's funny. But you can do that when you're Dionne's funny. And now she'll do it. She'd do her after he went got in a guy's face like, hey, man, you write something positive about me.

She's doing no word. Just keep being you. I would say this before we move on. I was at the Falcons game on Friday. And they They played the Hawks game, I mean. And when they played the Browns' highlights, you would have thought that the Falcons has sported a touchdown. The crowd got like super hype. I get that's where, yeah,

I got drafted, but the league-wide hype, I think, is real. At least the black folks. Let's talk about one of Rachel's favorite politicians, Nancy Mace. Rachel's support. Yeah, Representative Nancy Mace had a town hall in South

Carolina recently where she was touting her role in these recent infrastructure upgrades that have been happening across the state. across the state. But as the reporter in this clip points out, she opposed that bill, the Inflation Reduction Act, as long as as well as.

Okay. All right. Go ahead. Before we play this sound, this is one of the most important political clips that I can think of in the last three or four years.

I swear to God. I'm dying to hear your reasoning for saying that. I swear to God. Donnie. play the clip. You, I noticed one of the accomplishments the things you were touting was the I-5 phony six years.

What was the accident along coin road? Yeah, not the interchange. Yeah. But that funding came from the inflation around which you all day has. Is that an accomplishment? Is that something you couldn't tout? No, absolutely. I mean, absolutely I can tell

that. And you're a raging Democrat, so raging ruffist with that kind of questioning. And I would say as a woman, like you might want to think about how you view other women and how you treat other women the way you question them because women are going to lead this country off the brink and conservative women. The first female president of this country

is going to be a conservative woman, not some liberal like you. What? You know, okay, so let me tell you why. That clip right there encapsulates political dysfunction better than anything I can think of recently. All right.

Nancy Mace comes out, says something that is counterfactual. She is confronted with fact. And then not only does she melt down, but she runs into a pre-cooked political siloed corner to lob the most generic insults at the reporter. You have so many things in there, and particularly, if you go a little bit deeper into Nancy Mace's career

and what she's had to do in order to get to the purse to where she probably will end up being the governor of South Carolina, right? You have, number one, a complete insincerity there, right? Or really a toxic insincerity because the infrastructure bill ended up producing something that was worthwhile for the people in her state. And rather than say that, rather than say that and give credit where credit is due to the Biden administration,

she claims credit for something she voted against. Right. She voted against it for political reasons. She took credit for it for political reasons. Then she lashed out at the reporter for political reasons. Do you know what was not in Nancy May, calculus, at any point during that entire deal, the people of South Carolina. Right.

The people of South Carolina had nothing to do with that discussion. Because if the people of South Carolina were her primary focus there, she would have said, you know, I had a lot of disagreements with Joe Biden. But I think what we need is a lot more of the emphasis and focus on infrastructure, like the Infrastructure Act provided us. Like we need to have conversations, particularly in South Carolina, about things like Wi-Fi in rural areas,

about roads, about bridges, about other things that the Infrastructure Act addressed. And so while there were definitely things in the bill that I didn't like, if you want more stuff like that, then the people of South Carolina should always know that it doesn't matter who's in the White House,

I'm going to be open to discussing things that make their lives better regardless of politics. That's not what she do. That's not what she did. She acted like she thought of it and it was her idea. And then when she was confronted with the fact that her politics were bad on it, she lashed out and said, Democrat, Democrat, leftist, leftist, and then played the woman card.

You know what's funny is because that's not the whole clip. When she's confronted about it, she starts talking. She's like, uh-huh, yeah, that's right. And she starts talking. And then the reporter's like, no, but you're not, I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. I'm saying that you didn't vote for this yet you're taking credit. And then she keeps talking. And it's almost as if she's like, well, I'm just going to keep talking. This is what the press secretary does too. I'm just going to keep talking and just filling up the space with words and say a whole lot of nothing. And hopefully they just get exhausted or they just get caught up and they don't realize that I'm not saying anything. It's almost as if she was trying to do that. And the longer, clip. She was trying to do that. And then she just goes, actually, you're arranging Democratic. Like, I have no defense to it. Actually, I'm just going to do your point, go back and talk about to the talking points that I know that my base will hang on to and not realize that I did the whole, as they say in the campaign, the switcheroo, where I'm like, it's the more, you've seen that movie. Yeah. I love when I can make a movie reference.

The more I think about what is happening in this country. It's like how, who, knew how relevant that movie would be because we are literally seeing Will Ferrell that type of politician throughout the Republican Party. But I will say when I, what I, it's important for people because as you said, she will most likely be the governor of South Carolina. It's like when I was watching this clip, I thought, well, here we go again. This is another episode of this person stands for absolutely nothing. Nancy Mays is a walking contradiction. She's a walking hypocrite. and she'll say whatever she needs to say

to solidify her base or satisfy her base and to make them happy. She used to stand for LGBTQ plus rights. Now she has made it her mission to speak out against the trans community. She says that she's about women and she believes in supporting women and she would do all these things,

yet she's never spoken out about Donald Trump. She's never, she hasn't spoken about some of the other things that have gone on in her party. She supported Matt Gates. She did speak about about some of the, things that supported our party. About women? Yeah.

She did speak out. When it came to herself? No, she called the inclusion of the abortion travel reimbursements and asshole move. It's worse than what you're saying. She did speak out about it. Nancy May said that Republicans were going to have problems, winning votes, if they continue to be assholes to women.

And do you know what happened? Donald Trump, in a primary, supported Nancy Mace's opponent. She went anyway, but she completely flipped. That's what I'm saying. So what I'm saying is it's not to, to the point that you're making, it's worse because she tried to position herself or acted as if early on that she was a moderate member of the Republican caucus, right? And when that seemed as if it was going to lead to Nancy May's not being as elevated in the Republican political order as she wanted to, she completely changed. And not only changed went to the other end of the spectrum.

And that is the type of politics that's destroying America. And we didn't even talk about the DEI of it all, how she got, how she graduated, got her education, all based off of DEI. and now wants to eliminate it. Again, the point you made, she doesn't care about the people. She only cares about herself, which is why I say, this is another episode of somebody

who stands for absolutely nothing. It was Megan Kelly last week. It's Nancy Mace this week. She does stand for something. She stands for herself. And so that's the kind of thing that we kind of have to look at to me when we're parsing through

these various political figures. you literally need. You guys, ask yourself this about the politicians that you claim to like. Seriously. Do they have three policies? Three that rock the boat of the status quo. Are there three things that you can point to

that they support that put you before them? You before them. That's it. Forget about. how it's going to make them look with their party cohorts, how it's going to make them look like with the audiences on the Sunday shows. Forget about any of that stuff.

Can you point to three things, the politicians that you like, that put people first, people first. Like, it doesn't matter what the drug companies are going to think. It doesn't matter what the defense industry. is going to think. It doesn't matter what fucking Israel is going to think. Do they have three things that you can say?

At least I know that this person cares about this and is willing to be unpopular with the political class if it affects people's lives. And if they change up based upon what's good for them politically, which you're going to find, if you

do any type of research into a lot of national politicians that that is their MO, that they change and side based on opinion polls and based on what is going to get them closer to whatever brass ring that they are chasing after.

If you see that, which you'll see that in a lot of people, then start thinning out the groups and the people that you are loyal to. And this doesn't matter if they're black. It doesn't matter if they're on the left or on the right.

It doesn't matter at all. The only thing that matters with people that you've entrusted this much power to is whether or not they're sincere. It's legitimately the only thing that matters. This answer from Nancy Mays should be disqualifying. It should literally be that you cannot vote for her. You cannot vote for someone that insincere.

She doesn't give a fuck about you. She didn't care enough to vote for something that impacted and it improved your life. And even when she was wrong after the vote, she doesn't care enough about you to say, I should have voted for it. Which means that she'll do it again. Yeah. So, like, I was so, not even,

I just watched it and I was like, oh, oh. I don't know why. This is what they do. This is what they do. Donnie? Oh, this is, what's going on here? Don't say this is a Rachel thing. There's a Rachel one right here.

Let's get into it. Hallie Barry's her first ex-husband, David Justice. He was on the All the Smoke podcast, and he spoke about what led to their divorce. It really wasn't a lot of negative attention until I decided to leave her in 1996. You know, I remember Hallie saying to me, you know, hey, she asked me to marry her after knowing me for five months. So I'm looking at my mom, and I'm a Midwest guy. So in my mind, I'm thinking a wife at that time should cook, clean. Traditional.

You know, and then I'm thinking, okay, if we have kids, you know, is this the woman I want to have kids with and build a family with? And at that time, as a young guy, she don't cook, don't clean, don't really seem like motherly. And then we start having issues. That's the whole clip. Yeah, that's it. You set me up for these gender war conversations. Everybody was talking about this. I, as a single person, I pray this type of man never finds me.

I really do. I don't know if it was Matt or Stack that said it, but one of them goes, as he's talking, traditional, which is what David Justice is describing. he described, when I listen to the things that he said he wanted and the fact that he said that he looked at his mom, he says that he wants a mother. Not a wife, not a partner, not a companion, not a lover.

And when he talks about Hallie Berry, I don't think we heard it in that clip, but he talks about Hallie Barry and he talks about how, you know, in hindsight, she really, really loved him. And when you're saying that, and he's like, And I, you know, he felt, I don't even know if he said he felt bad, but he was like, I know she really loved me and I wasn't ready for that. Well, then you should have chosen not to be with her. If you recognize that she wasn't the traditional wife that you wanted, then you should have never married her, but you did it.

And you said, okay. And now, I don't know, when I watch this clip and the reason I say I pray this type of man doesn't find me for two reasons. one, because I do want somebody who looks at me more than just a mom. And I feel like that is an issue with a lot of women as they're dating. These men, there are a lot of men, let me try not to generalize, there are a lot of men who want you to step into that motherly role. They want you to take care of them just as their mother did. They want you to coddle them in those ways,

rather than looking at you as somebody who is, you're building this partnership of life with. And it's hard out there. And that's why a lot of women, I think, these days are finding it not just hard today, but why they choose to be single because that is not who they want to be or spend the rest of their life with that type of person. And then the other part of it I say I wouldn't want a man like David Justice as I hear him talk about this is because knowing in hindsight that Hallie Berry loved you a lot,

knowing that you weren't ready to get married, you seem more focused on the fact that people still attribute because Hallie Barry came out and said, that she was abused by a former boyfriend, and he has come out multiple times and said, that wasn't me. But Hallie Berry has never said, by the way, I wasn't talking about David. She's just let them.

She's just let people think what they want to think. And a lot of people, because he was so public, have attributed that to him, he seems to this day more worried about that than maybe some of the things that he did wrong in the marriage. And that's troubling to me. I'm not saying he shouldn't be bothered by the fact. That's troubling to you?

Well, I'm not saying that he shouldn't be bothered by the fact that he's being wrongfully accused. He's saying that. We don't know what the true story is. He says he didn't do it. She hasn't said anything. I have no idea. We do know she had a restraining order against him, though. I will say that.

She got a restraining order against him when they were getting divorced. And she said that at one point he came over to the house and he stood outside at the house trying to get his stuff and he stayed there before. She said she didn't feel safe. She said she didn't feel safe. Yeah. And he responded then at that point that said that. that I've never done anything to make her feel unsafe with me.

He addressed this in 2015. And when he addressed it in 2015, again, in a different, David, he should probably let this go, right? Because no, but he addressed it in 2015. And when he addressed it in 2015, Hallie Berry's people came out and said this. They said that David and Hallie

have been friendly for years. And that they didn't understand why David Justice was dredging all of this stuff back up. And this is my point. I will say this, though. If people thought that I beat or anyone beat on a former spouse, and I was, even the celebrity that Dave Justice is, I would have a great deal of problem letting that go.

I'm not saying that he shouldn't have a problem. with being, he's saying he was wrongfully, that allegation has been wrongfully placed on him. If he, he says he didn't do it. And if he, I shouldn't say it like that. He says he didn't do it. And if I didn't do it, I would also be like, by the way, this didn't happen.

Well, she also never has said that he did it. By the way, I don't know what happened. That's my point. We don't know what happened. We just know that they've been friendly for years. He continues to talk about it. I'm like you. If I felt I was being accused of something I didn't do, I would mention it too.

My point is why I say, what I don't like is the focus I felt like, you know, they're asking him about what went wrong or what happened. And you keep focusing on this rather than talking about, I would think 30 years later, it's been almost 30 years since you guys were divorced separated, that you would talk about more. And now you're married with three children. You would talk more about, hey, I realize she loved me more. didn't, the mistakes I made in the marriage, there would be some reflection more on that, then more so again trying to clear your name. That's what I have a problem with. I felt like the focus was more on that. That's all I'm saying. When it has been addressed before and the team has come out and said, why are you bringing this back up? Because this is what happens

too. I looked at the comment section. When he brings it back up, people start talking about it again. I agree with that. I agree that it serves him. It doesn't serve him. It doesn't serve him all to continue to bring it up. But my biggest problem is the traditional stuff. Like, let's see. Stop looking for a mom and look for somebody who is, if, if you want them to be like your mom in the sense of morals and values and family oriented and things like that, I understand it.

But looking for somebody to literally, I'm an adult now. I've grown out. I've moved out of the house. I need somebody to fulfill the mom role for me now that I'm not living with my mom. I don't like that. I don't like how he talked. about what he wanted from Hallie. Hallie was successful.

She was talented. She loved you. You admit that. She was loyal to you. And that wasn't enough for you. You wanted her despite her making a name for herself, which I would assume, you know, you were attracted to those things. Her, you know, outside of her beauty, her talent and all those things, that wasn't enough

for you. You wanted this. And I just hate when I see that because I see that type of rhetoric a lot from when, not necessarily from me in dating, but with my friends that are dating. And I hate that. Well, okay, a couple of things. Number one, I think I already said it,

if there was an idea out there that I had been physically abusive to someone and it wasn't true, I'm not saying that it's not true. I don't know whether or not it's not true or not. If that were out there about me, I don't think I would ever be able to let it go.

It's like, just let you guys know, I'm not the guy, Because this goes back to a story. Hallie Berry says that she was with a boyfriend at the time of the boyfriend hit her in the side of the head. And it caused like 80% hearing damage to her. She, like, it fucked up one of her end drums. He bust her eardrums. Christopher Williams, he had it put on him.

And then Christopher Williams came out and said, it's not me. And then he put it on Wesley Snipes. And so whatever this is about the abusive boyfriend to Hallie Berry has been jumping around. And then it did jump around and settle on David Justice. And part of that was because of the restraining order. Because you connect these things. You connect. She filed a restraining order because she felt unsafe to there was a boyfriend that hit her.

These two things must be, you know, in, they must be dancing with each other. But nobody knows because she's never really named the person. And she's never really said who it's not. She's never said, oh, just let you know it's not. Wesley's knife. Oh, just to let you know, Christopher Williams never did this, at least to my knowledge, she's definitely never going, hey, just to let you know, it wasn't David Justice, right?

So, you know, him, if he didn't do that, then I would be like, hey, at some point it would be awesome if everybody thinks that, but she doesn't owe him that either. I guess I don't know who owes who anything, but whatever, that would be hard to get over.

Secondly, I think that he was trying to do what you want him to do in this clip. You just don't like what he said. He was trying to do what? He was trying to tell the reasons why they weren't a match.

Like he was trying to go into this is what happened between me and Hallie Berry and why the relationship didn't work. Which, by the way, why we didn't work out is always going to be one of the funniest questions you can ask any one person

when the other person isn't there. whenever I am talking to anyone about their relationship and they're telling me about their relationship, I reiterate in the conversation over and over and over in the conversation, just so they know, I'll say, hey, yeah, that's what you say.

Remember, I haven't spoken to them. Let me tell you something. If I decided to get on this podcast and talk about my divorce, don't do that to me. Oh, I'm going to have to. Number one, I was, first of all, that's different though.

I was there. I was there. for a couple of things and I kind of know some of the things that happened. But I'm just going to be real with you. Don't do that to me. I'm not, be real. I've never heard what he's had to say. I've never talked to him about it before. Don't do that to me.

You are probably the villain of his story. Oh, for sure. As much as he is the villain to yours. So, I'm not going to say that I don't, a couple of things there, there are a couple of things. A couple of things there I know are true.

I was there when they happened. There's a couple of things. But at the same time, I'm not there to litigate what happened in the relationship or what didn't happen in a relationship. You are down for me. You are on my side. I am on your side, but that doesn't mean that you're...

I would never lie to you. But here's the deal, though. I'm on your side, but that doesn't mean that you're right. I would never lie to you. I would be on your side right or wrong. You know what, though? So it doesn't mean that you're right just because I'm on your side. You know what, what though, what I would never take away from him,

and I'm sorry, like we're deterring, but what I would never take away from him is... I am sure I did things that made him feel a certain way. I would, what I say when I would say, don't say that to me is, I would never lie to you in the sense that if I am telling you an event that happened or something that happened, I am telling you the truth. Now, what I can't say is, oh, you know, my, something I did made him feel insecure or made him feel emasculated.

Wouldn't take that away from him. Right. That's how he feels. I'm talking about if I'm like, hey, this happened. no, it happened. But I'm sure it did. But even that event in the way that happened, it's kind of like,

there are multiple perspectives on how that event made people feel. Not how it made it feel factually what happened. Factually what happened. There's still all kinds of other things when you're talking about matters of the heart. I guess we'll never be talking about it here. You can talk about it because I'm not going to say nothing.

It's not up to me when you're telling your truth to the audience. It's not up to me to come back here. That's not a conversation between me and you. That's a conversation between you and them. Like if you're, if I feel like if there's another thing just with me, and don't call me to talk about the shit unless you want me to give you a bird's eye view. And if you do want to do that, just let me know at the beginning of the conversation, hey, Van, I don't need your input.

I just need somebody to talk to and put a, uh, emotional, emotionally hug me. I can do that. But if you don't say that, I'm going to be like, I don't know, man. But listen, let me tell you how what could have happened there, right? But if you tell me you just need to get it off your chest, I'm good with that. But I'll say this about David Justice,

and we'll go back to this. It's like, he's saying that he needed a mother. He needed someone who he could envision as a mother. While I don't need that, I don't need somebody who I can envision as a mother. I, because I assume something. I assume that both motherhood and fatherhood are transformational experiences.

See, I don't think mothers are born. Like, I don't think that... You don't think you're born with a maternal instinct? No. Well, no and yes. I think everyone has it. I think some people are better mothers than other people, right? Some people are better fathers than other people.

But I think if that weren't true, it would have been really hard to make this many people. If it weren't true that people have children and then have an instinct and a pro-evolutionary thrust to take care of those children, to bond with those children, to prioritize those children,

just from a scientific standpoint. Forget about all that other stuff. It would just been very difficult for us to live and survive as long as we have without that being a thing, right? I watched this video a couple of days ago, and it was a mama bear, and she was walking around with her cups, and another bear was hanging out in the area.

She chased this bear off, chased him off viciously. And you know what? That bear that she chased off was her son. He was from an earlier litter that she had had, right? It was her kid. It's her son from an earlier litter that she had had. He actually, when I was reading the entire thing,

probably just felt like he wanted to say hello to his mom. Like probably feels still some kind of attachment to his mother. However, sometimes grizzly bears, male grizzly bears, eat their young. So she looked at him and she goes, I don't know what you're going to do. Get the fuck away from here. And she was still a lot bigger. He hadn't quite matured.

yet. So he ran, right? She's being a mom. Mom's mom. Women become mothers. Women are always women. They are always mothers. Women become mothers. It's a thing, right? Babies make women mothers, not society. A baby comes and is like, oh my God, this baby represents the furtherance of my line and the human species. I love this baby. There's nothing. special within a woman that makes her decide, oh my God, I'm going to be a mother now. There's nothing like, it's not a thing that there might be women who are more committed to motherhood, but we're here to make children. There might be women who go, there might be some women that go, hey, the one thing I want

to be in life is a mom to have more kids. And maybe some guys need that. Maybe some guys want that. But the baby comes and we love the baby and we protect and take care of the baby because that's what we do. It's not a stat. Right? It's not a stat. If he couldn't see that in her before there, it's just because

she had these other things that didn't make, really it wasn't about the kid it was about him. He wasn't talking about the kid. So, but by the way, if he needed somebody that was more fixated on him or more about him or more, that's his shit.

Like, it's a athlete trait. Like that's, if that's what he wanted in a relationship, that's his thing. You know how many women. But that's what I'm saying. Don't marry her then. He saw that in her before he married her. That's what he was saying.

He saw that she wasn't those things. Well, he saw it and they got married and then it didn't work out. And then when you ask why it didn't work out, he goes, he actually says in the thing, he goes like, I don't feel like what he said in and of itself. I feel like it really, a lot of the women who are bothered by this, they're bothered by it because it's Hallie Barrett. No, I'm not. He says him the clip at one point that. She didn't cook.

She didn't clean. He said something about she didn't have maternal. I think he says maternal instincts. Well, she's not for him. But it's unfair. And you kind of alluded to this or you said it. It is unfair to look at a person who's doing her career and, you know, succeeding in that and working hard in that way and think she doesn't have maternal instincts because I don't see her doing those things. That's so unfair.

Just because I'm focused on my career doesn't mean I don't have that I don't have maternal. Instincts. I agree. That's what I'm saying. It's a problem to make that assumption. But like all of the things that he's saying, there are women like that. Yeah. So go find one to them.

Yeah. But I know. I'm talking about the problematic nature of what he said. What's problematic about it? You can't look at somebody who's focused on their career and say they don't have maternal instincts. Well, I don't think that that's even a real thing. Maybe, maybe is that wrong? That is what he's, he's basically saying.

I saw her focused on in this and she wasn't wife material. That is not fair to do that because as a person who's focused on their career, when I'm with somebody, yeah, that's why I have a problem with it. When I'm with somebody, I do more, you do see more of those things with me. But you're not, but like it's not necessarily a priority or maybe this right now, I'm focused on, in her case, a movie or I'm working on this. but it doesn't mean that I'm not a wife material because I'm not doing it in the way that you want it

for as much as you want. You're not wife material to everyone. Correct. I might not be for everyone, but he made a general statement because she doesn't do this, she's not wife material. For him.

But a lot of men do that. And I think that you see one thing and you think you're incapable of possessing some of the other qualities that you want, which is unfair. You know, I hear sisters talk about this all the time. And they say they don't want to have to like build a man up. They don't want to have to see potential in a man.

Yeah, there's a lot of rhetoric about don't date for potential. Don't date for potential, right? Okay. So if you were with somebody and you go, I don't see a partner in you. I don't, you don't do this, you don't have this, you don't do any of that stuff. I can't, he couldn't see the potential in her as a mom. He couldn't see the... As a wife.

As a wife, as a mom. He couldn't see the potential there, right? So if we're not dating for potential, he doesn't have to see the potential. To me, I think... This is how I look at things. This is very simple to me. To me, it's all about feelings

and then everything can be worked out. If there is genuine connection, if there is genuine care, if there is genuine love for one another, everything else can be figured out. Do you think it sounds? sounds different though if somebody says, do you think it sounds different if somebody says

you don't cook, I want a wife, I want somebody who can cook, right? I'm taking wife out. I want someone who can cook, you don't cook, I'm not interested in that. As opposed to say, you don't cook, you're not a wife material. If somebody says, hey,

I want to date somebody who's already solid or who already has it together and not somebody who's potential, so you're not for me, versus, well, you're not husband because you only got potential. It sounds different. It sounds different because...

And it sounds worse. Okay, so it sounds different because there's a value judgment that's coming along with it. Correct. But really, it's no different. So, to me, to me. So I'm just looking at it from an intellectual place.

The value judgment comes from gender roles. The thought that I don't like, you or I don't see you as a wife because you don't cook is problematic to a lot of people because of the thought that women should cook, which women don't want to be put in that box. The things that men should do are less controversial, meaning when a woman says, I don't want to make, I don't want to date a man that makes less money than me. nobody cares because there isn't a societal stigma or there's not it doesn't it's not sexist to say that it's not sexist to say i the only thing that men have traditionally been able to give women is security right because all of the

other things that you give a woman men have kind of copped out of them right they don't they don't give like emotional security they don't give vulnerability a lot of times they don't give a lot of the other things that you would give to a partner. But the one thing that you, that women have been, well, at least I don't have to worry about anything. So I don't think it's really crazy when women go, I'm not going to go through all of this shit from men and then have a man that I have to take care of, right? I'm not going to deal with all of the fact that he's not regulated, that he doesn't know

how to express himself, that he may be abusive, he may be distant, he may be aloof, he may be have problems with infidelity and have to take care of this, Nick. I'm not going through all of that. There's a difference between having to take care of somebody and then the potential part of it. But see, the point I'm making is when you step back, all of this stuff is so arbitrary. I agree.

It's so societal, so steeped in capitalism and tribalism and castle building and all of that stuff that really it makes no sense. But what I will say is it's like, I meet women all the time that go, you know, I'll give you a different example. And this is far off of the page right now. But I was like, I was talking to these women one time

was a group of ladies. And they were super, we were having a conversation about the, at that time in California, there was the legislation to legalize gay marriage. Right? I'm a wrench thrower. I throw rins into conversations all the time.

And these women were talking about how disgusting it is to them when a man is homophobic. Right? And that's true. A man being homophobic should be disgusting to a straight woman. But I asked a question. Because this was also around the time that you were first starting to hear about the trans stuff. I was like, I have a question for you guys. Would you guys date a man that before you,

dated a trans woman. And they were like, not knowingly. If he knew she was a trans woman, I would not date him. And I was like, I fucked this room up. I was like, y'all should sit with that. And I was like, because,

y'all should sit with that. And I'm not in any way judging them because I'm not the person to judge anyone, but I'm like, y'all should sit with that, right? Because sometimes a lot of the things that we're discussing about mates and potential mates and all of that stuff, has to do with security and what makes us feel secure.

They would feel insecure about their sexual relationship with a man that had dated a trans woman before because there's so much in there that's entrenched. There's so much of that stuff in them that they don't realize is in them. I think it's the same way. I think even with this, I think when he's talking about all of that stuff, he is coming from the question that each that men are men and women are asking each other is how much should you take care of me? Like how much should you take care of me?

Like, and how? Should you take care of me emotionally? Should you take care of me financially? Should you take care of me? His idea of a woman taking care of him isn't a woman listening to him. It isn't a woman pouring into him. It's not even a woman protecting him,

which women can do for men. It's a woman cooking for him. And that's because he was raised on tradition. gender roles. Now, for him to say that now, we've destroyed the traditional gender roles for women, but we keep examining them for men. And women want certain things for men. Yvonne. He said it. He said it. And you want your dad. I've actually actively dated anti my dad. But what I'm saying is you've dated anti, you've dated, you've dated your dad, but, but I could have came back with something like that. Actually, let me, let me, let me say

Let me, yes, you could have. Let me say this. I want to date someone like my dad in the way that I have seen him, the type of man that my dad is, the way he is with my mom, as in the way he values her, the family-oriented morals. But I've never dated. My dad makes more than my mom, but he didn't always. My mom used to make more.

And my dad, because my dad couldn't find a job as a lawyer in Dallas. Nobody would hire black lawyers. Looking for cops. So he went to the city and they were at the city. But my mom did make more. And that's something I've always admired. My dad wasn't like, well, she doesn't make more than me, you know, or she makes more than me. That's unattractive.

But now my dad makes more than my mom. And so he provides in that way. But what I'm saying is, is I've never said, well, my dad makes more than my mom. So my man needs to make more than me. I've always dated somebody that seriously dated. is somebody that I made more money then. So, anyway, will you do it again? Yes.

Because, and I, and let me just say, what do you mean I wouldn't do it again? That I make, that makes more, I have, you think I, I'm telling you right now. So this is, this is, and I know we've really been going on on this. I think when you see people, women on social media, and you hear people talk, the loudest ones are the ones saying, like, we didn't do this segment that time, but the girl who was like, you know, conversation. aren't for free. When you really talk to women, obviously being women, I have a lot of different

friend groups. Most women want companionship. They want a partner. And they're not as concerned. That is a misconception. The tide is changing. I'm telling you, women don't want to feel lonely. Women want somebody who makes them feel secure. How? As in like emotionally secure, somebody somebody who makes them feel security as in safe, like having a partner there, more than these days, because women are making more money, than they are concerned with, he's got to make more money. Now, those women are out there for sure, but I am telling you, there are things that are more important. So for me, it is more important for me to find somebody I feel safe with emotionally that I can trust and that I feel safe with that is going to, like, protect me.

me, like physically, like, that is there. I want to feel safe with them. Okay. I don't, I'm not in any way disagreeing with that. I do think that you had, you spun the block on broke niggas, and I think it would take a lot for a broke nigga to come back. I didn't say broke. I don't say I want, there's a difference.

I said they don't have to make more than me. I get you. I don't want them broke. I get you. I get you. And I'm not going to, you know, bring up personal conversations that we've had into this. So, but. But, but.

It would be nice to. not have to work as hard, but that's not a deal breaker for me. But this is what I'm saying. In all seriousness, all just aside, besides me, poking fun at you. When you say security and when you say protecting and all of that stuff, it all just, it's how. To me, the guts of the conversation is, what do you consider to be somebody protecting you? Like, what do you consider to be somebody providing you with emotional security?

Like what does that look like? Because those are the things where we, where the generals come into it, right? Because there are a lot of men who want to be vulnerable with women, but they don't want the women to have anything to say about their vulnerability. Totally understand that. So what I mean is they want to come home and they want to be like, yo, this is what the fuck happened to me and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

But they don't want that woman to have any opinion on their life. So they don't want her to say, okay, well, this is the way you should deal with that. Whoa, I got it. Well, true vulnerability is a two-way street. You have to be vulnerable enough to talk to someone and confiding them and know that they're not going to weaponize

that vulnerability against you later on, right? But then you also have to be vulnerable enough to be able to go to your woman for counsel. A lot of the guys that I'll talk to or listen to, I'm like, how many times do you just ask her advice? Like, forget about that. Like, how many times do you just say, say, what should I do?

To the woman. Like, how many times do you just say, that's empowering to her? Like, how many times do you just, do you respect her enough, respect her intelligence enough, respect who she is enough to know that she might know something that you don't know? This is with all relationships, with all relationships, not just relationships that are romantic, all interpersonal relationships. How many times do you ask somebody a question just to get their relationships?

spin or P-O-V on it, or just to engage them in something that's interesting. You're taught that in order for a woman to be meaningful in your life, she has to check certain boxes. Those boxes are some of the things that guys like David Justice, who's old, we're talking about checking, right? But my thing is, if these relationships are about anything or anything of, you know, than trust, confidence, and mutual understanding, then everybody starts going down that road.

Everybody starts going down that road. And we do get to a point to where these relationships become more about what you can and cannot do for me than they are about who you are. Yeah, 100%. And if that's the case, then we're headed to the loneliness path. We're headed to the path because society, is so

we're so broken down there's so many things to consider now there is a scenario for you being ain't shit

on the internet that's going pop up tomorrow it's going to be somebody that's going to be like oh well if that's what

you got to do to be a good partner I'm not doing that yeah if that's what you the dream thing

investing into your partner's dream thing that Elliot was talking about a lot of women I know were like

I don't want to do that yeah women are women feel they're tired. But they're like, I don't want to do that. I don't want to like, niggit, if you want to build kites,

you need to have your kite building company established before you meet me. It's tough, especially when you get to a certain age. Like when you're in your 20s, I think you have a lot more patience than time for that. But when you've been through a lot of dreamers, you're like, your preference is changed.

And you're just like, I've done that before. Right. I just don't know if I have the patience to do it again. That's cool. That's cool. Go find somebody like that.

For David Justice, in the grand scheme of things, do I think it's whack for somebody to be like, yeah, if you don't cook and clean, then you're not going to be. And he also seems to be intimated that he was wrong to think that, that he should have, that he didn't know.

He said, I don't, he said, I didn't know about therapy. He said, if they had a therapy, they would have therapy, maybe they would. still be together. He did say. But if you want somebody that cooks,

you know how many women think that it's their job to make a home for someone? Those women still exist. Go find you on. No, and I think a lot of, and he is an athlete, and he played baseball, so he was on the road a lot.

And a lot of athletes are used to being catered to, whether it's by, you know, they start young, it's the teams, it's, you know, they go to college, it's the same thing. a lot of things are taken care of for them. And I think that that translates into what they want with a partner as well.

And then he probably can provide a life where it's like, you don't have to do all these things. So I want you to do this. Again, his preference, it was just him inserting the mom thing that, you know, whatever. He's like that. Fuck that, Nick. I feel. Lysk, is he biracial. This episode is brought to you by Sweet Green.

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Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. All right. The book is King of Ashes.

He is S.A. Cosby. New York Times best-selling author of All the Centers Bleed. Also, Razor Blade Tears, which is currently being adapted into a feature film, Jerry Brookheimer. Yep. I think there's a writer named Trayvon Free. Yeah, yeah. Trayvon Free and Martin Rowe are the writing, directing duo who are helming Razor Blade Tears.

They've done an incredible job with the script. I've gotten to meet them a few times. Actually, I'm probably going to see him this week. Yeah. Yeah, they're incredible. I know those guys. They won an Oscar for short film a couple years ago for a short film called between two distance. strangers.

Just an incredible tandem. They also have done a lot of Emmy Award-winning documentaries on sports, Jeremy Lynn and the Knicks. And so they're just an incredibly creative duo. So happy to see it. And then today we just found out that the actor, I hope I'm pronouncing right, Soap de Riso is going to start in the All the Cerners Bleed TV series at Titus. Oh, wow. You got a lot going on.

We got to start off. It's your birthday today. Oh, the end of the day is my birthday. It's your birthday. So happy birthday. for being here on your birthday. Thank you all for having me. This is wonderful. By the way, just so as you know, I produced

Two Distant Strangers. Oh, wow. Okay. So have you talking silly? All right. Trayvon. Trayvon's my god. Hey, that's my buddy. He wanted you to bring it up. I know. Trayvon and them were doing it.

I was actually trying to get somebody else on the film two star and we'll see if that works. The book. Yeah. This book. Fiction. Yeah. I want to ask you a question overall.

Okay. As a black man, I don't get enough time to read fiction. Okay. I am reading books on the New Deal. I'm reading books on African history. I'm reading books on economics, on behavioral psychology, on the Constitution. I'm reading all those. For me to sit down and read a great fiction novelist like yourself,

I don't make the time to do it as much as I should. Why is that important? I think it's important because I think fiction allows, us to see the world as maybe it could be and maybe not as it is, but seeing as it could be allows us to dream how we can achieve that. You know, you can read books about the new deal. I'm a historical history buff myself, so I read about the New Deal. I read about the Great Compromise. I read about, you know, 1619 projects, so and so forth. And those hard facts are important to give us context to the hellscape that we're currently living in right now.

But I think fiction allows us to open our minds to the possibilities of things. It can give us hope in a time of hopelessness. You know, a lot of times in the real world, bad guys don't get punished, good guys don't win, and nobody ever corrects the scales. And so seeing it, even if it's fiction, can allow you to have,

as the former president of Barack Obama, says, the audacity to hope. And that's what fiction does. It gives us the dreams and allows us to see things as they should be, maybe not as they are. I mean, there's this infamous story that the people who created cell phones

that idea for cell phone technology came from Star Trek and the transponders they were used to talk to each other. Those things were fictional, But they inspired something that changed the way we live. So I think fiction is, to me, the most important type of writing because it allows us to open our minds in a way that the hard data sometimes won't let us.

Do you feel like that gets lost when it does get translated to TV or film? Because I feel like a lot of people complain about that. Like a book, a fictional book I read was just adapted to a Netflix show. And I hear people like complain, oh, the book is so much better. Do you feel like that gets lost? I think there's an idea that the book and the movie are two separate entities. As I like to say, they're sitting in the same church but they're in different pews, right? The book is always going to be the book.

You can go and pull a book off the shelf from 1975, never mind what kind of movie or media was made from it. That book is always going to be there. The movie itself is a whole different interpretation. You know, it's like, it's almost like somebody's listening to the same song and playing in a guitar, or playing on piano. And so you've got to kind of look at it like that. Walter Mosley told me once, he said, look, somebody adapting your book into a movie, your TV, it's like somebody come to their house and cooking in your kitchen.

As long as nobody dies from food, poison, everything's okay. And so that's kind of, you got to look at it the way the book is and the way the TV show is. I do think books allow us to go deeper into not just the main character, but also the side characters. It allows you to have a deeper conversation sort of in a way that movies and film does it. Well, what movies and film can do is sort of create this sort of universality that can be expressed through visual mediums that sometimes the written word has a difficulty conveying. The depth of the writing in this book

and in the other books that you've written, the characters are sticky. They're very sticky characters. They get in, they weigh on you. You feel like you know them. And then some characters, you feel like you want to know them. What is your process in writing such memorable, hard-to-forget stuff?

I try to make all the characters seem not just real, but realistic. So, you know, and I think there's a difference between that. You can make something real. Like, you can make something real as boring. I can give you the details of, like, for all the sentence, please. I can give you the details of what the powers of a sheriff in Virginia are based on the Virginia Constitution and all that.

That's the real, but the reality of it, what does it feel like to be a black man who's a sheriff who's wearing a star that has not always protected the people that look like you? So those are two different distinct sort of places and ideas when I'm writing. For me, I really invest a lot of time in the characters. not only what they do and what they say, but also their background. Most of my characters have complicated biographies that never making it to the book.

I just write those for myself. Like, for instance, with Titus, there's a whole bunch about Titus that I talk about in the book, about him being a football player, about him being a quarterback for the team that won the state championship, about his time in the FBI,

about his time as a young man maybe falling away from the church. Those are all things that in the book, but things that are in the biography that never made in the book is I know when Titus had his first kiss. I know that he's afraid of snakes. unlike snakes. There's a scene in the book that it has a snake in it specifically. And so when you

read it, I know this. You may not know, but I know that's the way he reacts. That's the way he acts in that scene because they don't like snakes, but he can't let his deputy see and be afraid. So there's a steel that he pulls on himself to go up there and do what he does in the book not to ruin it for anyone. So like with Roman and all of a king of ashes, there's a lot that doesn't make it in the book that I know about him, that I know about who he is. Like, what's his favorite color? What's his favorite flavor, ice cream? is he afraid of dogs and so on and so forth? And then that sort of weighs on the scenes

that happen later in the book. Those are not things that I need to like point out to you, but those are things that I know that allow me to have him react in a way that seems more real and realistic. That is so interesting. Sounds like you already have like the prequels written out for these books as well.

Do you save some of that? Like as these things are being adapted into TV, film, do you save that and pass that along? Oh, yeah. Yeah. There's stuff that. that I wanted to put like in my first book, Blackout Wasteland, that the editors felt like was too much.

And so I may put it into a sequel or a prequel like you were saying. I may adapt it and use it into something else in another character's life. But there are things. I do kind of think very deep as far as you want to call it, maybe the world building of when I'm creating these characters, what they've been through, who they are, their likes, their dislikes, their dislikes, their loves, their hates, their fears, their foibles.

All of that is sort of the thing that allows me to put them on the page in a way that feels more lived in than just a very static sort of dry character. If I was writing like that, I would be so connected to these characters. It would be hard for me to let them go between book to book. Yeah, it is. It is.

It's funny because they all live in my head. They're all like these. It feels like that sometimes. Also, it feels like there's always so much more I want to see with him. You know, like I want to, you know, most of my, all more books I should say are stand-alones. But there are ideas that I maybe want to revisit and come back. Like with Titus, I'd like to catch up with him and see how he's doing.

with Bug from Black Taw Waysland. I'm really interested in seeing how his relationship with his kids is 10 years down a row when they're young men now and so and so forth. But then there are also books that are not connected to previous work, but I've mentioned things in these books that I may want to pursue or take a look at. So there is this sort of interconnectivity in my books that is like the essay Cosby-Shared universe. There's a character who makes an appearance in here who's a very, I guess, beloved character from one of my previous books.

He has a cameo in here. There's a reference to a book that I wrote. So I think these characters are real to me in a way. And then I worry about them and I wonder how they're doing. And some of them, I'm afraid of them. I wouldn't want to hang out with them. You know, a lot of your books take place in the South. Yep.

Okay. I have a thought and I want to know what you think about it. Okay. I think that the more authentic black experience exists in the South. I am from Louisiana, Rachel's from Texas. I think the real black cultural expression, the real black American cultural experience is in the South, I believe that.

It definitely starts in the South. It definitely begins in the South. I mean, the South is, for the lack of a better word, the South is America's, you know, original sin, right? It's the original place where indigenous communities where a genocide was committed against them. African people were enslaved. the South was where America found itself for ill or good.

And so I think to not acknowledge that that is a part of the African-American experience, a very large part of it, I think it does a disservice to not only to yourself, but also the history that came before you. It's funny, being a Black Southern, I had people tell me recently that they didn't read my first couple books. I didn't know, I didn't know what was about. And it's like, I grew up in itself. I grew up.

The church I used to go to was founded by my six-time great-grandfather. So the idea that black and I'm African-Americans don't have bona fide, don't have connection to the South, I think it's very short-sighted. You know, and I think it's something that we definitely need to talk about. I also think that that experience does translate throughout the entire country. You know, if you go, pretty much unless you go west of Mississippi, everybody you meet as black probably can trace the answer to back to someone in itself. You know, someone in North Carolina, Virginia, South Carolina, Atlanta, Alabama,

anywhere in that whole area. Because, again, that is the genetic. there's also the social port where everything's started from. But I think for me it's important, especially in my work, that I'm creating or trying to create an honest and frank conversation about modern African-American life in the South. And what does that look like? Why is that important?

It's important to me because I think there is this idea that the South belongs to a different set of people. Like it's the, that people think. Or to a different time. A different time, you know, that people think the South is this old providence of neo-Confederate Apologies. And nothing could be further from the truth. Every scrap of ground that a good,

old boy who weighs the Confederate flag walks on, someone who looks like us has bled, died, lived, and created there. We have as much claim to that region as anybody else. And I'll be damned if I'm going to cede one ounce or one inch of that land to someone who tries to erase that idea. And it also happens within all black communities. Sometimes people feel uncomfortable talking about the South. They feel uncomfortable talking about the area.

I remember going to visit relatives in New York, and it was always like, you sound so bam. Why you talk so bam? Why you sound so country? Because I'm coming from the country. That's where I'm from. I'm not ashamed of that. You can say that about me,

but you can also say that about Ernst J. Gaines. You can say that about Alts Walker. You can say that about Flaynor O'Connor. The South is, again, America's original sin. And from that becomes incredible works of art, of music, of literature, of acting, of political unrest, you know? And so for me, to ignore the originality of the African experience in the South would be, it's like spitting on their graves of the people that came before me. Oh, that's why you have such Southern pride.

Do you consider Texas? We consider Texas itself to a certain extent, unless you go past, like... There was a bit of hesitant. I was like, wait a minute, not. Because this is something we've talked about. Now, of course, being from Texas, we're always taught us to South. But I'm realizing other people don't necessarily think that. And I'm curious, you write so much about it.

I always think a Houston is the South in Texas. But then once you go west of Houston, it's the West. So Dallas isn't? That's the way I felt. I mean, that's the way I was taught. Dallas is a dope-ass city. You know why I'm going to dismiss this claim? Because neither one of you were from Texas and you have no idea.

Dallas is a dope-ass thing. I'm not here. Shout out Dallas. Y'all know my people shout out. What makes Houston because so many people from Atlanta are now moving to Houston so now it's become. Like Houston is the South. Houston is the South. Houston, everything but when you get past that,

the topography changes. Everything changed. You're like Houston, it's not the South no more. It's the West. Piu-Pew! Shoot guns. It is not the West. I'll give you West, Texas. I'll give you West Texas. Okay, okay. I do feel like there is this idea that Texas, because it's so big, it can be part of the

South in Houston part of the Southwest experience in the western part of the state, then you go down, closer down to the southwest part of state. There's a whole different sort of identity there. So I think it's, you know, I just, I don't know, I've been to Houston. Houston feels like the South. I feel like I can go to Houston get good sweet tea. Houston is culturally in every way, shape, and form. I'm not going to take this Dallas slumber.

But some of the other play is just not the South. And by the way, I don't think Dallas want to be the South. That's not true. That is not true. fucking city. I love Dallas. You know, I keep that blammer on you

when you're in Dallas. Dallas is a dope city, but Dallas is not the South, though. Being from Dallas, I'm telling you growing up, it might feel a little different now because it's changed so much, but growing up in Dallas,

absolutely the South. For you, you're putting out these books, I feel like back to back to back to back to back. How do you come up with the concepts of the books and is it like, as you're writing, like when you were writing King of Ashes, are you already thinking about it? Yeah.

You seem like a person. who's got five ideas going on in their head. And we'll still talk about King of Ashton since that's the book that just came out. But how do you come out with the, come up with the concept? It's so funny because when I first started writing, my very first attempts are writing, I wanted to be a horror writer. I wanted to write horror fiction. I grew up on Stephen King, Clive Barker, and stuff like that.

And so it was, I tried to write horror novels, and nobody really wanted them. And so what happened was I've always been a fan of crime fiction. I grew up in a household of readers, right? My mom read nonfiction historical stuff. My uncle, he was next door. he read Detective Knowledge. My aunt lived across the road. She read horror novels.

I remember she gave me my first Stephen King and was like 11. And she was like, does not go get you too scared? Because I don't want your mom to get mad at me. I was like, I'll be fine. And I slept with a homemade crucifix on my pillow for like two weeks.

Which one was? Salem's lot. Yeah. Salam lot scared me too death. Stephen go too far, man. Salon lot. I just always felt like I was going to wake up and there was going to be the little white boy scratching

down my window. Let me in. Remember read the night flyer, the short story? Yes. Oh, that's such dark. It's so scary. His stuff is terrifying. for the road about these old dudes at a bar that go help this guy find his car that's been in a

snow drift, scary short driver read, like six pages that would terrify you. And so I was trying to write that kind of stuff and people really weren't really get into it. I've always been a fan of crime fiction. I love crime fiction. Like I said, my uncle started me on like Chesterheims and Raymond Chandler and folks like that. But I never felt like I could write about crime fiction in the area where I came from because I come from a very small town, like came from a town of 8,000 people and like I know all of them. I'm related to half of them. So it was like it was one of things where I didn't think crime fiction was something for me. And then what happened was I used to have this friend who was a belly dancer and she went

to New York City and met this guy at a performance who owned a bar, but he also published a crime fiction magazine. He had a crime fiction magazine of short fiction called Thug Lit. And a lot of writers who are writing today who are doing crime fiction came through that magazine, Jordan Harper, Alice Agura, Megan Abbott, people like that. So anyway, once I found that magazine, and also he paid, a lot of people weren't paying that. And he paid like 100 bucks a story. I really needed 100 bucks.

So anyway, once I found that, I was like, okay, so crime fiction is my thing. I can do this. I can write about the small town. You know, because usually in a small town that's never whodun it. It's like, can you prove it? Because we all know who did it.

It's like, we all know who did that thing down there by the creek. It's like, can we prove it? So anyway, once I started writing crime fiction, I had all these stories that are based on some things that actually happened, some things I've heard that happened when I was a kid. And then other things where I want to take these stories and talk about things that were important to me.

So like with Black Toth Wasteland, a lot of Black Tile Wasteland is based on personal experience. I grew up my uncles and cousins were all into cars, drag racing and stuff like that. They all remodel cars when we were growing up. You know, I learned like how to fix a radiator if you know an emergency by putting pepper in it and stuff like that. I learned all that growing up. So a lot of all the centers was based around that sort of car culture in the South, especially in African-American communities is a really powerful motif, really powerful metaphor, you know. Like freedom is just a stereo wheel away. And so for me, car car culture was big.

when I wrote Raised by Tears, I totally shifted. Raised by Tears is based around an experience of relative of mine and who was gay who came out. And in a rural community and a very conservative community, that is a thing that could be very difficult. And I wanted to write about that in a way that was interesting, but also talk to the people in the communities that I'm from to talk about the homophobia, the intelligence and stuff like that. So that's what that idea came from. And then while I was writing that, I was watching, oh gosh, the first season of True Detective. And I love that. I love it so much.

It's the best eight-hour movie you'll ever see. And I was thinking to myself, I want to write something that explores the nature of evil, that explores the nature of evil in institutions. What does that look like? That ended up being all the sinners bleed. So when I was writing King of Ashes, I was thinking to myself,

man, you know, it's one of the reason I'm out of here. It's one of the reason I was thinking about it. I really want to write something set out of Virginia. I want to write something, and I want to take, like, a character out of Virginia and take them somewhere that is totally opposite to what they grew up with, what they experienced.

So I'm definitely thinking about now writing a book set in Pasadena, set in Burbank in the late 80s, early 90s, about a guy who's a getaway driver from Virginia who may and may not be related to my character bug from my first book. So that's what I'm thinking about now. So I'm actually just now just trying to ride around to get an idea of the area and stuff like that. But that's how I think about it.

That's what the ideas come from. But it's funny, like it's a lot of stuff that I wanted to put in books. Like sometimes my editor was like, oh, that's too unrealistic. Nobody will ever believe it. I was like, how's there? I saw it happen. I once saw a dude get mad. we were drinking moonshine.

He got mad at his horse and went to punch it. And he went and hit the horse, and the horse turned around and kicked him in the face and broke his three ribs. And my editor was like, I just don't think people are going to buy it. We were there. We took him to the hospital.

All of us drunk, an old 85 Bonneville. Should have left him. Should have left his lesson. You're writing books that are fictional, but they are very easy to glom on to, very easy to get to the characters they feel real. I'm going to come at you with a real issue here,

which is the literacy issue with young black men, young black boys, not reading on great level and not being able to achieve an early life in terms of reading and comprehension. These books are not going to be appreciated in the way that they should be if we don't have the young minds

that are capable of absorbing them, and reading them like they should. What do we do? I think the biggest thing is we have to make, not me, we have to let people know. This is idea, I think, among, and it was when I was a kid, I'm sure it's happened before me and it's happening after me,

that there's this aspect of, like, reading isn't cool. It isn't cool to be educated. Isn't it cool to be intellectual curious? I think the way we get around it is we just are able to articulate to young boys in a way that they, in a language, they understand that reading is interesting. reading is cool. If you get people like, I wrote a series of kids' books with Questlove,

young adult, middle grade books. First one was called A Rhythm of Time, next one, next year. And one of his goals, when he reached out to me, is like, I want to write books that young black boys and girls see themselves in, you know, see themselves in a sci-fi adventure, see themselves in a young adult adventure. When you're talking about maybe black boys who are like a little older, 13, 14, 15, you got to talk to them in the language they understand. What are they interested in it? Are they interested in stuff like Fortnite and interesting stuff like games and video games? What speaks to them as young boys that you can then translate to a book or a graphic novel or an audiobook?

I think that's one thing we also have to do is I think we have to get off of this high horse that only reading a physical book is reading. If you listen to an audiobook, if you read a graphic novel, if you read a comic book, if you read on your Kindle, you know, anything that allows you to have that sort of, as Stephen King calls it, telepathy with the writer, It's fine. It is valuable. It is a valid way of ingesting this sort of literary media. I don't think we're going to be able to shame people in the reading. We're not going to be able to guilt people in a reading. We have to find a way to talk to people in the language they understand in a place that they're comfortable with and show them things that they're interested in it. Whether it's fiction, nonfiction, whether historical novels, like I said, whether it's common books, whether there's anything, anything that gets your mind involved in the idea of digesting ideas, is great. That's so interesting. Okay. So the book is King of Ashes. Tell everyone like a 60-second sales pitch on why they should get the book. Oh, because it's real good.

That's it. That couple with everything else you've been saying. That's it. No, King of Ashes tell the story of the Carraza's family. Oldest brother Roman, middle sister, David, baby brother Dante. It's the book opens. Roman is living. It's really fabulous hedonistic life in Atlanta as a financial advisor. Gets a call from his sister, Dasman of Carax and he's on home, you've got to come home. The family business that he ran away from, basically, is they'd own a crematory in a small run-down, Virginia town. When he gets home, he finds out his baby brother's in debt to the type of people you do not want to be in debt to. And Roman tries to figure a way out of this while also dealing with the fact that when they were kids, their mother disappeared when they were

teenagers. Nobody knows what happened to her. And his sister starts to investigate that incident. Those two things sort of dubbed the tail together as the end of the book. And really, it's a book about how far would you go to protect the people you love? Into Rome. You like that. I'm kind of, which is like, see, I'm calling them wrong.

Yeah. Which is so bad for me as a writer because I was like writing this character. I wanted Roman to be interesting, but I wanted people to see like, wow, man, he maybe he's making wrong choices. Nope.

I'm into the chaos. Yeah, people love it. I want to ask you, before you got out here, I want to ask you something here. You talked about Virginia, which is, as you say,

the South, it's allegedly the South. I mean, it's capital of Confederacy. so can't get you much certain. If Nathan Bedford Forrest was cool coming to Richmond, it's this out. Forrest, man. Forest, man. Yeah, he's a great-grandfather.

What's your, this is tough. Because Virginia is a sneaky talent fucking machine and all different types of stuff. What's your Virginia Mount Rushmore? Oh, man.

Oh, man. Okay. Blue Singer Roof Brown. Let's see. Blue Singer Roof Brown. Timberlin from music. Let's see. So Timbalin?

Timbalt's on it. Timlin, I think because Timberland not only put Virginia, quote, on the map, but he put a type of sound on the map. And along with like the Southern Hip-Hop Revolution at that time. So you're looking at Goody Mob, being outcast, you're looking at people like that, where there is this sort of blues, bass, hip-hop infused language that people still use today.

So you don't count Teddy Riley as Virginia? I mean, he is Virginia, but my personal opinion, I think Timberland had more of a lasting influence. Teddy and New Jack Swing was huge for about four years, but I think there are people today who are still making music based around the type of production

that Timberland did. Because what Timbalind did was, he took this idea of industrial music away from like metal, like ministry and skinny puppy, and used it in hip-hop. He used baby laughs, and the sounds of cars, hunking and stuff to create sort of the symphonic event that people still use today.

So I think Tim Mullen is on there. Roof Brown is on there. I'm trying to think of somebody from... I need one athlete. Oh, oh, that's, oh. It's tough. You got Iverson. Man, I think it's got to be Iverson.

I'll tell you why. I think because his thing about Alan Iverson, he's listed in sixth one. I'm from Virginia. I've seen him in person. He's a good 5'10. Yeah. But, man, he's a free athlete.

athlete. And the funny thing we always joke everybody knows about the practice speech and everything. The funny thing is, I think his career could last 10 more years if he had practice. But look how good he was when he did. It's amazing. This a dude who got out of bed, you know, throw his shoes on, will go out and do a game and then go back and hang out all night.

That type of talent is, it's almost it's genius level. You can't touch you. He was a hard worker too. He was a hard worker, but man, he went in that league and he made fools of people that thought they could just dominate him just because he was a shorter guy.

So that's an athlete. I'm trying to think of a literary person for Virginia that out. Well, Egg around both. Yeah. Well, an honorable mention to the clips because I love the clips. Oh, they just dropped. Push it going to love it. Like, yeah.

I had to send Pusher a DM because Pushing said on this last album, he said, all you $5,500 host and niggas get out of my face. I was like, yo, Pushing. I sent him a DM. I was like, just to let you know I get $12,000. to host and 20,000 when I'm out of town

so you ain't talking about me. I love the clips. I love the clips. I love... Very important. Very important. I think for, not only for, like,

Virginia, not so much just the sound of music, but the idea that Virginia is a place with stories to tell. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And when Puscher talks

about him and Malice, talk about Virginia. They're from Portsmouth. That's about an hour way for me. I know what they're talking about. Portsman, for all those people listening,

Portsmouth is everything Pusher T, tell you it is and then something. I'm telling you, boy, Portsmouth used to be a place you catch death like a cold if you weren't careful. And so the thing I love about Puscher, though, is Puscher reminds me of a horror movie villain. He's like Candy Man, don't put my name, keep my name bunch of your mouth, won't be no problems.

I just, I love their energy, their attitude. They were slight influences on the villains and King of Ashes. Oh, so the clips were influences. Torn and tranquil. Oh, so the clips were influenced what's going on. Do you know those guys? I do not know it, but I've seen every live show they've ever done. Virginia. Oh, wow. I've been to every

live show they've ever done in Virginia. So he don't even know they don't even know. I've never met him. You've got to send him another DM. Yeah, but torn and tranquil. I'm supposed to reach out to Victor to get them on the show. Yeah, torn and tranquil were inspired, not so much about their personalities, but their rap personas. You know, the energy they exude.

I'll push the talks a lot, but can back it up. Mouse is quiet, but we'll get in there and drag you in real tight. I love that energy they gave off. So I used that as the sort of inspiration for the So so far is, you said, Ruth Brown, Timberland,

Timberland, Iverson, and Edgar Allen Poe. And Edgar Allen Poe. That is with honorable mention. To the clips. To the clips. And let me tell you something.

When I was going through the notable people, because I just wanted to talk about athletes. Yeah. The Saints used to have a quarterback that was from Virginia. Yeah, yeah. The name, I just blanked on the name, the Vicks Cousin. What's the boy's name? Oh, Aaron Brooks.

You all know who I'm talking about. Aaron Brooks. You should throw an interception and laugh his ass off. Aaron Brooks. Aaron Brooks, yeah, yeah, yeah. You should throw a pink and laugh his ass off. I mean, Virginia got a lot of athletes that came out of, Aaron, you know. Dreie Bligh.

Dre Bligh. Joe Smith from Virginia. J.R. Reed was from Virginia. A lot of basketball players coming out of Virginia. Back in the day, way back in the day, out of my hometown, a little small town, Matthews. It was a guy named Keith Atherton, Pitch of the Minnesota Twins, one of a World Series ring.

another boy from Matthews. Shout out to Stuart Anderson was on the Washington football team. Got two Super Bowl rings with them. So there's a lot of talent out of Virginia, even out of my little small neck of the woods. So last question for me. You are a young novelist

to have as much as a success as you have. You are. Yeah. Like a young novelist. What else you want to do? How far do you? I just want to keep telling stories. I want to keep writing books.

I do have, it's funny you brought up, Trey, I've talked to Trey about writing the screenplay, but mainly for me, I just want to keep telling books. It's funny, I grew up very poor, right? Like I said, I grew up in a small town. My mom was disabled so she couldn't work. We grew up in a mobile home. You know, we didn't have a car as a kid.

The success and the accolades and honors that I've been given as a writer are beyond my wildest dreams. I can never tell you, you know, I went from working six hours a week in a hardware store to having, you know, the President of United States production comedy produced one of my books. Trump. You know, I've met people, no.

You know, I wouldn't even respond. You talk about Rockobar's a summary list. I know he's talking about higher ground. I was just going to ride right by that. We're just going to jump right over there and continue to even say that. Anyway, but just the experiences I've had, I had an experience last year. I was in France. I was in Leon France for this big festival called the Kid de Polars,

it's a huge crime fiction festival. It's the biggest crime fiction festival in the world. And they hold it in a cathedral. And when you sell out of books that weekend, they ring the bells. That's dope. Yeah. And so I didn't realize that what was happening. So I told the dude, I said, hey, I think I've signed the last book for the last customer.

And he's like, oh, hold on. And the bells start going off. And I can hear my name. And it was his French talk. And I heard my name. And it's like, oh, yeah, you've sold out books. And they're like five seconds later, they ring the bells again for John Grisham. And it just hit me.

I sold out before John Grisham did. And then I got to have a drink with him. And I was having, again, this sort of moment we're having them drink in a cafe. on a street in Leone, France. There's a guy walks by, he's playing an accordion. It's like the most French moment you could ever have. And I'm sitting there. I was wearing these Chuck Taylor's.

I'm sitting in these Chuck Taylor's. And I'm just this big old horse of a country boyfriend. It's real small town. And I'm in France because of a book I wrote. You know, you can't tell me nothing is impossible. Fantastic. You know. Is that what you would tell?

Not your younger self, but just like somebody who's aspiring to be a writer, somebody who is living in a world that they can't even imagine how big it is. What would you tell? Words can take you anywhere. Words can take you anywhere. They took me from a mobile home without indoor apartment to being, you know, in a festival with the biggest selling writers in the world.

John Grissel, the rainmaker. John Grisham and Scotch drinks. Yeah. That's cool. Crazy. S.A. Cosby, the book is King of Ashes. He is a New York Times bestselling author.

How many New York Times bestsellers you got? This made, well, by myself, three, four with the Questlove books. Woo! Woo! Go get it. We appreciate you, brother. Continue success, man.

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It affects them when it's time. to discuss what's going on in Gaza. Before we get to the latest that happens here, I want to talk about Pete Buttigieg, who was stricken in real time with Gaza flu. He was over on Ponce of America talking to John Favro,

John Favro, incredible hair. He's distracting. Okay. The hair is crazy. I've literally never watched him and thought, Wow, look at that hair. That's because you've never been going bald. Well, neither are you now.

Yeah, but like if anyone's ever about to go bald, you think about this. Okay, so I'm going to take something that maybe people don't really care about. And then I'm going to relate it to P. Buttigieg coming down in real time with the case of Gaza flu. This is P. Buttigieg, dying to get ready for it, when he was asked about whether or not the Democrats should continue to do pro-family policy. Like some of the stuff Trump claimed he was going to do on IVF and then didn't do. Okay. Whether or not the Democrats should continue any pro-family policy that the Republicans claim to be for.

This is his answer, Donnie. Do you think Democrats should run on Trump's promise from the campaign that, you know, insurance companies should be required to cover? IVF and fertility treatments? I think it's a good policy. I mean, if we're really serious about being pro-family, then we need to make sure that that we support that. And that means making sure whether it's a system of direct government support or whether it's ensuring that that's part of what you can get from private health care.

One way or the other, we've got to recognize that in a country, and by the way, I think that the right has been weird about it, but I don't think we should scoff at those who are interested in making sure that we encourage more people to be able to start families and have more kids if they want to. Clear, decisive. Ask him, he perked up. Yeah. Well, yeah, of course. Like, why not?

Like, what he says at the end there is specifically if the reason why they're not starting families is because they can afford to start families, too hard to start families, that they're economic and social issues that are stopping. them from starting these families, then we need to, even if it's ideas that are coming from the right, deal with that and run on stuff like that, clear, very distinct. Now, later on an interview, he got a case of gospel food because John asked him later on in an interview, whether or not his supports and democratic politicians should support recognizing Palestine as a state. Listen. Do you think it's time to recognize a Palestinian state? I think that that's a profound question that arouses a lot of the biggest problems that have happened with Israel's right to survival in the diplomatic scene. And many of the people who have taken that step historically have done so for different reasons than what we see happening with European countries.

I think we need to step back. and we need to do whatever it takes to ensure that there is a real two-state solution and that no one not even likes a Netanyahu can veto the international community's commitment to a two-state solution where you have Palestinians

and Israelis living with safety, with security, with rights. Okay. And we got to two-state. Okay. Well, you can't have a two-state solution unless you got two states. Okay.

But is he saying, he never, He never said yes or no, which is what the question called for. It was a very direct, yes or no? This is God's a flu. What happens is when you're asked about something on this and there are certain people that have never had it, but when you're asked about direct action on behalf of Palestinian people, you know what happens?

A brain flu that comes from all of the things that you feel like you have. have to say before you just say, yes, they deserve their own country because it's their land. And the only way they will ever be safe, ever be free, and ever have self-determination is if the entire world recognizes that that's their land, that that's their land in Gaza, that's their land in the West Bank. So, yes, if you. are an entity or a country, and you are not recognizing Palestine as a state, you are endangering them. You are making them less powerful.

In the world that we live in, the only thing that guarantees safety is power and self-determination. Sorry. We talked earlier. The women in my community, they have to be powerful if I want them to be safe. they have to be they have to be powerful there's no other way because if not then i'm taking care of them i don't want to take care of them i will take care of them but i want them to be powerful enough to be able to take care of themselves right so i watch p boudijit a 24-carat gold communicator

like a fucking like out of a like a fucking robot i am Pete Buttigieg. Insert question. Get deep thoughtful answer. And then I watch him fumble around and fuck around with that fucking answer. And I'm wondering to myself, why can't we just be clear about the fact that we want the end of this trauma, genocide, and discreet, and discreet. and disgusting piece of history for these people. Well, I mean, the first thought that comes to mind when you say that and when I think about it is, I think in every politician, whether it's your favorite or your most hated,

there's the idea of self-preservation, right? Like you want to be able to either, well, with him, be in office again, you want to Sorry, I literally just blanked out for a second You want to Huh? Got some black

Got to all that talk Oh Rachel Don't let it get you Rachel Don't let it get you too Literally Okay

Literally No but I think that there is this self-preservation where you want You aspire to be in office or you're already in office and you're afraid. That's what it is.

It's a fear, right? There's this fear of, I want to be able to maintain the status that I have or a greater status, but then I don't want to upset people. And that's literally what you saw happen with Buttigieg and anybody else who's been, you know, has the Gaza flu as you say it.

And it's, you know, it's, I thought you were going to say this when you played the first clip about IVF and family, and you hear him talk about the importance of family, and then you hear the second clip, and he's clearly struggling to say that there should be a Palestinian state in support of the people, Palestinians,

and... You can't even get his fucking thing together. But my thought is, you're in one clip talking about the importance of people and families, but then you can't get your answer together, which, If you could say, speak out about, you know, two states and in support of Palestine, that is supporting families and innocent children and people that are dying.

And it's like, I don't understand how you can't reconcile the two. I don't understand how you can say, I want this, but then you can't see by not taking a stance or not speaking out about it in the name of self-preservation or because you're scared. You are not supporting families. You are not supporting children. You are not supporting innocent lives. And that's when I hear those two clips, I hear Pete Buttigieg talk, it's like, well, which one is it?

And the days are over where you can do the switcheroo, or you can say, you know, talk around it or use the certain talking points of the party. People are exhausted and they're frustrated and they're tired of seeing the inhumane acts by political leaders in their countries. And Pete Buttigieg, as this makes the rounds, he's going to have to pick a side.

He's going to have to pick something to stand on. And it's the demand that people are having from their politicians. As we talk about this, Israel's security cabinet has approved a BB Net Yahoo plan to occupy Gaza City, Israel's security cabinet. Approved this a couple days ago. The prime minister's office said on Friday, the IDF will prepare from the takeover of Gaza City while ensuring the vision of humanitarian aid to the civilian population outside the combat zones. Netanyahu poses this. We are not going to occupy Gaza. We're going to free Gaza from Hamas. Gaza will be demilitarized and a peaceful civilian administration will be established. One that is not the Palestinian

authority, not Hamas and not any other terrorist organization. He seemed to call the PA a terrorist a terrorist organization there, almost by association there, this will help free our hostages and ensure Gaza does not pose a threat to Israel in the future. Any thoughts here? Well, I'll say, I saw some, I heard somebody say, with this announcement and this new plan that you're rolling out, when you have people in the streets of Israel protesting, when you have the families of the hostages, is begging you not to do this, when you have the military saying that this is not the way that you should do it.

But yet you're going to do it anyway because you're going to do what the far-right government is saying that you're going to say what they want for you to do. It shows that you're not doing things. The argument of you saying, I'm doing this out of necessity, it's dead. It's been dead, right? But it's dead. You are now doing this because this is what you are choosing to do. This is what you want to do, what you want to happen. Your own military is saying that this is not what you should be doing. The people who you are trying to save their parents

or families are saying, don't do this. You're possibly going to jeopardize their lives. You're going, you're endangering them. The international community who is saying you're endangering the lives of more innocent people. People are starving. This is not the way to do it. You're ignoring all of that

because of what you want to do. This is a choice. This is not a necessity anymore. And it may have never have been, but that at least is what you were saying. Okay. Yeah. You're right about what he's been saying. I'm going through some of the times

so he's talked about occupying Gaza in the past in a second. But we should say that, you know, the president was very open and honest about the fact that he thought that there should be a takeover in Gaza and that he wanted to build all kinds of Trump-related fucking statues there. Yes, he did. Different type of shit. So they make it the Riviera of whatever.

Now, interesting thing here. Transfer, as the Zionist entity called it, early on, ethnic cleansing, as we've come to know it in the contemporary time, has always been a part of what has gone on there. If you're talking about the Nagba or other times, moving the people out of their land was always a part of this. The land itself was called

a land with, the Zionist project called, the Zionist project called it early on, a land without a people for people without a land. And that was kind of the framing there that was used. And that's why you settled in Palestine. The only problem is there were people there. Lots and lots and lots and lots of people. The question is what you do with those people, right? Now, there is a way to look at this that some people might consider. And that is that the horror brutality of October 7th was such that there is no choice now for Israel to be safe other than to either occupy Gaza and make sure that there are no security concerns there or to transfer all of the Palestinians out of Gaza and just make sure that there's absolutely zero threat to Israel's border, which would then probably five. and the West Bank.

You didn't have Israel do what a lot of people believe they've always wanted to do, which is have those two places for themselves. Because remember, as we speak now, the West Bank is seeing increased cellular violence. See people moving into the West Bank, taking over tracks of land on the West Bank. A thousand people have been killed in the West Bank. since October 7th. And that is not Hamas. The question is, what are you fucking around with them for?

Why have you increasingly built settlements in a part of a Palestine that has not directly threatened your borders in the same way that Hamas in on October 7th? To your point earlier, in 2009, Benjamin Netanyahu reiterated that he did not seek to govern Gaza but wanted security guarantees

that prevented a threat. attacks. In 2014, during the Gaza war, Operation Protective Edge, Nanjahou stated, we do not wish to govern Gaza, but Israel will take necessary action to stop rocket fire. In 2018 and 2019, there are various Israel security officials that publicly said reoccupation would be costly and undesirable advocating for maintaining the blockade instead of direct rule. If you guys talking about the blockade, there was a land, sea and air blockade that they had,

which is an occupation, right? They controlled the land, the sea, the air. All of that, so we don't want to occupy, Gaza, just want to be able to control it to make sure that it's secure. Pre-October 7th, still maintained then Yahoo. They had no intention to rule Gaza but wanted to focus on deterrence

and maintaining border security. All right. Why did I bring up all of those times that they said that they did not want to occupy Gaza? However, they wanted to do things to maintain security there. All of that time that's been said by Netanyahu and other people that they want to keep open the idea of occupying Gaza, if things are bad enough, it's interesting. It's interesting because we know at that same time, Bebe Netanyahu was keeping Hamas funded. Now, you guys, I understand how, I guess, controversial or how much that pisses people off to say. But in 2019, as reported by the BBC, Benjamin Netanyahu told colleagues in the Lukul party,

anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy to isolate the Palestinian. in Gaza from the Palestinians and the West Bank. What you don't want is the Palestinians in the West Bank and the Palestinians in Gaza having any type of unity and the best way to do that

is to break the factions apart that might cooperate. Hamas is not going to ever cooperate with the PA and the PA is not going to ever cooperate with Hamas, right? It's never going to happen. Benjamin Netanyahu believed that he could control

the height of the flame which was essentially control Hamas and control the inner workings of Hamas in Gaza. That didn't work, obviously. That led to the slaughter 1,200 people on October 7th because they didn't change anything. So they didn't change the conditions in Gaza. They didn't change the self-determination,

freedom, and justice for people in Gaza. All they changed, all they did was sort of make concrete the conditions there. They ensured that Hamas would rule there, right? But nothing else was changed. The atrocities that they face, the dignity, the stripping of dignity that they faced,

none of that was changed. So what you're essentially saying is if things are bad enough there, will come in and we'll secure it. But you're also keeping in power a group that's making sure things are bad at them. You're not in any way working with even Hamas.

Even anyone that would change the status quo of the situation. So what you're doing is producing in eventuality where you have to go in at some point. Either that, or you're just stupid, right?

You're just stupid. You never want, like he says directly there, a two-state solution. You never want them to have their own state, their own country in either place together. You don't want that. So to me, whether he knew it or not, he was leading the government of Israel

towards an eventuality, well, he did know it, of course he knew it, of why he was going to take over Gaza. Because if you don't endeavor into a two-state solution, if you don't ensure rights, self-determination, and dignity for the Palestinian people, then the only thing you have left to do is to control them.

And whenever a reason was given for you to do that, you do it. And that to me is what's happening now. And there ain't no way around it. There ain't no way around it. And my dad used to say there ain't no way around it. By the way, they can't do this alone. If Israel is going to occupy Gaza, they are going to need massive support from the American military.

I don't know even what the capability of a house-to-house occupation is. I don't even know if the IDF can even do that. Well, that's what they're saying. They're saying, like, they're exhausted. They're, like, I think it's their chief of staff who's speaking out and pushing back against it. And, yeah, it is the chief, it's the Israeli military's chief of staff saying, speaking against it and pushing back. Before we get off of this, I want to say one thing. Jesse Wu, shout out to Jesse Wu.

she criticized DJ Callet. DJ Callet is maybe the most famous Palestinian in the world. I mean, the Hadid sisters are pretty famous as well. And you guys, we want to make sure that we know that we acknowledge that an entire team of journalists was just killed in Gaza about what looks like a kinetic attack from the Israeli government. And a soccer player as well. Palestinian Pelle was also killed. Seeking aid. Seeking aid.

So the killing and the rampaging continues. Jesse Wu called out on her podcast just a couple of things. She said this about DJ Khalid. Donnie? Imagine being Palestinian and not speaking up for my people, DJ Khalid. Hello? Is the microphone on? DJ Khalid?

Get out the booth. All that screaming and hollering you be doing? Get the fuck out the booth and speak up for your people. This is ridiculous. This is ridiculous. I know you somewhere, cause playing as a light skin, black Jamaican man. with long-ass titties.

But I'm going to need you to get up and say something about your people. This is nasty word. Am I the only person who just be wondering, how does DJ Calid just not say nothing about this? Like, what is going on? Just let you guys know we ran out of time of doing gender wars.

I'm going to have to give you out Glazer the week on Thursday. But we're going to get out on this. Peter Rosenberg, we've had on the show before, said that not being of an ethnicity and telling someone of that ethnicity how they should do things is nasty, nasty work. He basically said that it is not Jesse Wu's place to talk about what DJ Khalid is

or is not saying about the plight of the Palestinian people. This doesn't really make a lot of sense to me, especially coming from Peter Rosenberg. I just, how she's calling him out. per se because she is disturbed by what is happening in Gaza, what is happening to Palestinian people. And she's calling out and trying to understand and question, hey, how can you see people who look like you, people who, that's your heritage, your ethnicity going through so much in such a loud, devastating way, and be silent.

And she's not the first person to do that. Even Dave Chappelle made a joke about it before. So a lot of people have. So it's just an interesting, especially Pete being like, Pete, Peter, Peter. Does he go by Pete? Peter Rosembourg. Do we say Pete?

I feel like I've never said that. I said it. I don't think so that. But Peter being a talking head and having opinion on people and certain things multiple times where he doesn't share their ethnicity. It's just a take I would not expect from him. Has he criticized somebody who is commenting on, has he ever gone, you're black, you should care about what black people are going through?

Probably not. I don't know that he has very fast. But he is a talking head, I guess is my point. And I guess I, to me, this goes because of what is happening to Palestinians, this goes past your Palestinians should do this. This is being a human being. and he happens to be Palestinian. I guess I look at it more than that.

It's bigger than that to me because of what is happening. It's so inhumane. You should just be disturbed by it and want to speak out, period, but even more so because these are your people. Right. All I would say is, you know, we've seen DJ Calut show us his beautiful son, his beautiful family, all that, stuff like that. And he's presented his son before, and we've seen his son.

We saw his son since his baby. He's a beautiful kid. He's growing up and all that stuff like that. I think the kids that we're seeing now that are Palestinian are starving. They don't look as happy and healthy as DJ Cowell's kids have, right? And, you know, I don't know if it's fair, but it's not unfair. It's not unfair. It's not unfair, not to me.

Like, if, man, if 60,000 get killed in Baton Rouge, and I don't have shit to say about it, 100,000 get killed in Baton Rouge, 150,000 get maimed in Baton Rouge If 150,000 get maimed, like whatever I'm talking about directly where I'm from, whatever, it doesn't have to be there. But if that happens and you don't hear shit from Van,

feel free to hit me up and go, yo, can you see what's popping? Can you see what's going on? Yeah. Feel free to hit me up and be like that. Because I owe them something. Now, I'm not, look, I owe them something.

Yeah. I owe my people something. Maybe DJ Caller doesn't feel that way. Maybe that's not his thing. He's not obligated to, but it definitely speaks to his character. Well, I don't know. Look, I don't know what the reasons are, but I think the curiosity,

I'm not going to say shit about his character. I don't know him. I don't know what the reasons are, but I think the curiosity is more than Warren. more than warranted. Anybody asking that question with this type of human suffering going on, I think they

I can't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't want to do a thing where I speak to who he is and what's going on or what, what the, what the situation is. I'm not going to assume why he's not, but I will say it does make me question who you are. I mean, certainly. But I will say this, Jesse,

keep doing your shit. You ain't did shit wrong. Not at all. Take thin caps off Do not stop learning. I'm Van Lathen Jr. I am Rachel Lynn Lindsay. Bye guys.

Bye.