Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - George Floyd, Doja Cat's Apology, and Joe Biden's Remarks

Episode Date: May 28, 2020

Van and Rachel address the death of George Floyd and what it means for society broadly (00:45). They also discuss the latest drama with Doja Cat and the struggle with self-acceptance (23:50), racism inside Bachelor Nation, and Joe Biden's 'Breakfast Club' gaffe (52:11). Finally, they take some heat to Azealia Banks. Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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but especially black people, have allowed themselves today to take a deep breath. We're about to put our thinking caps on. This is the higher learning. podcast. I am Van Lathen. I'm Rachel Lindsay. You were Rachel Lindsay. Now, if you listen to the way that Rachel said that, she almost sighed her name. If you guys, she almost sighed. It was almost a breathe out. And it feels as if before we

even get into any other of the multitude of things that we'll be talking about today, not just, you know, today, but in the life of this podcast, why does it feel like to me your spirit is a little strained today. There's a lot going on right now that is affecting our community. And I honestly, Van, I had to, and I hate this because this is our first episode. This is the introduction for higher learning, the people are getting to see what our show is about. And because our show is about the culture, how do we not, how are we not tired right now? How are you not sad and how do you not feel heavy with everything that is going on and is affecting us right now?

You said that you had to take a breath. I had to take a sip. I just needed to calm my nerves. I needed to get in the right mindset as we delve into these topics that we're going to discuss today. I'm going to try everything that I can today not to be emotional because I'm at a place right now where not only am I exhausted, but I feel helpless. And I'm trying to figure out what is it that I can do. And I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people who look like me who are trying to figure out that same thing.

Yeah. So, I mean, let's just get to sort of the meat of what it is we're discussing. Obviously, there's a huge news story. It's huge, but it's not novel. It's not new. And it's not in any way something that we almost don't expect at this point. George Lloyd, there's video. He is a man up there in Minnesota, in Minneapolis.

A video of his death hit the internet this week. And it's horrific. What you see in the video is a police officer with their knee on Mr. Lloyd's neck. He is now dead. And you see this police officer basically suffocate him as he begs for his life. Now, this video isn't something. we haven't seen before. It's the same video we saw in the case of Eric Garner.

We've seen situations like this before. We just were sort of able to catch our breath from the death of Ahmaud Arbery. But when this happens, the questions keep arising in our brains, the questions of

whether or not we're American citizens. Are we safe from police? Are we safe from the system? Is there any sort of penalty, we should say that the officers that are involved in this have already been terminated. Legally, we're not sure what's going to happen to them. But it almost doesn't matter what happens to them because George Lloyd is dead.

I keep saying Lloyd for some reason. My bad, I meant George Floyd, no disrespect to the brother. Now, for the rest of us, we'd be able to take solace in the fact that some sort of justice was done. but there can be no lasting justice until America addresses whatever exists systemically, whatever exists culturally, that allows us to keep finding ourselves back in this situation. For black people to continuously have to announce their humanity, announce their right to live, announce their right to breathe, announce their right to gather, announced their right to live in a society

and not be subject to terrorism, which is what this is. Yeah, it is. And for me, you know, everyone is talking. There are a lot of things. There was a protest today where young African Americans mostly took to the streets up there in Minnesota, and they were tear gassed.

They were tear gassed by police officers who I haven't seen use any teargast. to armed white supremacist organizations that have popped up in state capitals and federal buildings all over the country and asserted their right to assemble, to gather, and to make their presence felt. And to bear arms. Don't forget that.

Because they're armed up. To be dangerous. Yeah. And to, in a real way, if not overtly, but subconsciously threatened danger. Because that's why you show up somewhere with a gun to let somebody know that you're dangerous.

When we show up, we're normally not armed. We're showing up to let people know that we're hurting. And what we normally get from that is, you niggas shut up. And they do that by violence, by tear gas, and by all of these other things, just to let us know that we don't have a voice in this country. Rachel, I'm going to ask you, you've dealt with these issues. I've dealt with these issues.

What are we going to do? Because we're in a groundhogs day loop of despair and hurt. What do you have, what do you want to do right now? You know, we talked about this before. I'm with you. The question is, what can we do? Feeling all the feelings that we feel, frustrated, angry, you know, upset, emotional. that's not going to do it. What action can we take that will actually institute change?

Man, I don't know. We've been dealing with this for centuries. You know, we had a black president for eight years and then we literally stepped back 50 years when we elected the next president. And it seems like the country is going backwards rather than forwards right now. I don't know what we can do. You and I kind of touched on this last. week when we were talking, but I think that it has to be bigger than us. Black people have been fighting this fight, have been protesting, have been using whatever platform they can to assert their rights, and it's not doing anything. Here we are in 2020, and it's not doing anything for us. So what can we do to make a difference? We can't do it by ourselves. I've talked about the civil

rights movement. I've talked about what has to happen, how we had to have the help of our white brothers and sisters. We had to have allies help us in this situation to get the rights that we deserve. That's what's going to have to happen again. And personally, I'm using my platform to encourage people that don't look like me, that you need to speak up and be as deeply disturbed as we are by what's going on. And the sad thing, Van, as much as we talk about this, it's not like tomorrow. we're going to wake up and there's going to be a difference. It ain't going to be a difference tomorrow, next week, next month, next year. We're going to have to see change take place over time. And it's got to be systematic change as well. That means that we have to get out in strong numbers

and vote. We have to let our voices speak through that. We have to vote locally, regionally, and nationally to get things done because that's the only way it's going to do it. Marching helps. It brings awareness. But then our attention span is only so great. We have to make systematic change. I agree. I mean, I agree with the the systematic

change. What I vehemently disagree with is that vehemently, okay. Vemently disagree. I vehemently disagree with the notion of any other group

helping black Americans right now. Come on. It's not a It's, listen. Like, it, and the, like, and I'll tell you, listen, I know a plethora of decent people from outside of the black community. I do. Sure. The question is, if they don't lend their voices, their economic support, their political support to what's happening to us, then what?

The question is, what if they don't? You called it Groundhogs Day. then we keep doing this shit over and over and over again. And we can't live in a, we can't live in a dynamic where black Americans cannot afford to live in a dynamic where we wait for somebody to come save or so help us. It's not, I knew we're going to say that. It's not going to happen. We've been waiting for the white men and white hats for hundreds of years. They're never coming.

what we have to realize is that it's going to take a concerted effort on many different fronts. Agreed. On many different fronts, some of those fronts might be things that are unpleasant. Let me put it to you like that. The Black Americans might start to have, Black Americas might have to start to assert some strength and draw some lines and stick the chest out a little bit. Because if you are completely, if you're, if you approach things in a docile, meek, and impotent manner, you're relying on the graciousness or the altruism of an oppressor or someone that has their, their hand around your neck to stop squeezing because they're looking into your eyes. That's not what I'm saying. That's not what I'm saying.

I know we're like, we're like Malcolm X and Martin Luther King here. I feel you be, what I'm saying is like, I implore anyone, white, whatever, if you see something wrong, get involved. But the reality of the situation is no one can fix the, no one can understand the pain, fix the pain, and be more dedicated to the pain going on inside your own house than the people who live there. And we have to figure out how we assert our strength without the, help of white America. I'm not, I'm not disagreeing with you because I'm not looking for a white

savior to get us out of where we've gotten before. Please don't think that's what I'm saying. I'm taking the words that you said at the top of this show. You said that you talked about George Floyd and you talked about our lives not being valued, right? That's the whole matter. I mean, the whole movement behind Black Lives Matter. So if we're looked at as our lives are not as valuable as another race. If another race is looked at as more superior than us, then we can congregate all we want,

but you're also going to need the assistance. You look at it how you want to, but you are going to need other voices to help move this along. And we've seen history. I keep bringing up the civil rights movement, but it never would have happened if black people just had continued to protest.

We aren't looked at as how. agree with that wholeheartedly. So if you look at the Montgomery Bluss Boycott, right? What you had, I'll tell you what the difference between us and them is. It made an impact. Go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah, I'll tell you what the difference between us and them is. The difference between us and them was what they were willing to sacrifice. So during the Montgomery bus boycott, people think when you go back and you look at the history of that,

which is a huge, huge, obviously, a huge, a huge. a huge development in the civil rights movement and a big part of the strength that was built around Dr. King and what everybody else was doing. They affected an economic system. They said, listen, we are not going to ride the bus

if we're not respected as riders of the bus. Correct. We're not, and what happened was over the course of the boycott, they actually hurt somebody. And I want people to understand when I say hurt someone,

I don't mean necessarily physically. I mean, you have to show that you have the ability to negatively impact somebody else for them to respect what it is you bring to the table. I'll give you an example. My father, right?

I was a kid and I had like made good grades on a test. And you get like a chip party to give you chips, right? Everybody's sitting around eating chips. and a guy that I knew that I was kind of cool with named Demel. Demel came up and he grabbed my chips, ate him in my face, and then walked away laughing. It happened so fast that I did not get a chance to respond to it, right?

It happened so quick. I was like, yo, what you doing? And by the time he was walking away laughing, I couldn't let it go. I go home that night, right? I say to my dad, I say, Dad, I'm going to get in the fight. I'm going to fight somebody tomorrow. And he was like, why? I was like, I told him what happened.

My dad was like, well, you should have fought him the moment that he took your chips. And he go, and I go, I know, I just, I don't know what happened or whatever. I'm talking to him about it. I told him, I got to do it. I can't let it go. And he said, all right. And I told him, he's going to beat me up. I never forget that.

I knew that D'Amela can fight. You knew you were going to lose. Knew I was going to lose. Okay. I told my father, I said, he's going to beat me up. He's going to beat me up. Like, he's big, he's tough, whatever, he's going to beat me up. And my dad.

dad said, that's okay. My dad said, this is your job tomorrow. Okay. He said, your job is to make sure he knows he's in a fight. He said, your job is to go out there, assert yourself, draw your line, and then whatever happens, if you got to rip a shirt, if you got to scratch, if you got a claw, whatever. The only thing you want him to come away from that knowing is that you're not the right person to fuck with. Sure. Is that

fucking with you that there's a cost. As long as someone can fuck with you, as long as someone can take advantage of you, as long as someone can degrade you and there's no cost, they're going to continue

to do it as long as they want. And you can't rely on somebody else to come in and stop that from happening. That's not what the civil rights movement was about, Rachel. That's not what I'm saying. I get the bus boycott. I get how it economically hurt non-Blacks and how it made an impact. What I'm saying is you can't say it both ways, right?

You can't say that they look at us and they don't value us and they don't respect our lives and who we are and then expect also for us to be able to make a different. If they don't value you, if they don't look at you a certain way, then you're not, they're never going to, they're never going to hear you. They're never going to see what you're doing no matter how big the number is. What I'm saying is that there has to be some type of movement towards systematic change. That is what I'm saying. And I think that if you have more, I think that there's power in numbers. I'm not saying that black people should not rise up. I'm not saying that black people shouldn't congregate and fight and assert their rights. What I'm also saying is it shouldn't just be us. You need to be so outraged by the disgust that you're seeing with us dying in the middle of the day at the hands of police officers that you want to speak up and fight as well. And if we can continue to get more numbers speaking out, non-Black as well, I think that it has a better chance, a quicker chance, of making more of a difference. Okay. So I'll give you an example. So you, as I understand it, you are a woman. Uh, yeah. Yeah.

You're a woman. All right. Now, let's talk about something else that happened just recently, the Me Too movement, right? Yeah. Okay. So men have been taking advantage of women in every way that men can take advantage of women for decades, hundreds of years. Since the dawn of time, men have been abusing women. Okay.

In all types of ways. Some ways, obviously violent and obviously disgusting. some ways, such microaggressions that they're almost undetectable unless you are a woman and understand them, right? Tell you what the Me Too movement did. I think we discussed this too. We keep talking about a Phantom Pilot episode, by the way, that me and Rachel recorded last week. We're talking about something, a conversation that we had, but we're calling back to it because the dynamics still have merit. This is what the Me Too movement did.

The Me Too movement empowered women by doing. something that women didn't have the societal opportunity to do to men for a long time, to hurt them. Okay. Okay. So what the Me Too movement said was that doesn't matter what TV shows you've done or what movies you've done or what songs you've done or what paintings you've painted, what act, what roles you've been cast in, whatever. if there is a pattern of you engaging in this type of behavior, we will weaponize our collective will and our collective mindset

to ensure that everything gets taken away from you, your legacy, your freedom, your earning ability, everything. You will lose it all. For the first time, women had muscle in the, the fight against men. They couldn't be silenced. They couldn't be ignored. They couldn't be abused.

They couldn't be taken for granted. They couldn't be. And when I say in a span of three and a half to four years, the dynamic completely shifted. Right. It happened instantaneously. The question is, what is going to be the thing that black Americans are going to be able to do to American society to affect the change? that we need to see to protect our lives

and it's not going to be asking them to help us out. Stop saying I'm not saying that I'm asking. We need to ask our white brothers and sisters to help us. What I'm saying is that you should be so outrage that we are all coming together to make a change. Now, to your example about... But what if they're not? But what if they're not outraged though?

Then we keep going. I'm not saying that we stop and we're like, well, shit, we can't get them to help us out. Then we just stop. No, we just stop. No, we keep the fight. We still do our part. But we should be encouraging them.

You need to speak out and do something as well. And to your point about the Me Too movement, those women weren't just black. They were all women. They were all racist. I didn't say that they were just black. No, but what I'm saying is, is if we're talking about a social caste system here of how people are valued in America, I'm pretty sure that the Me Too movement would have been totally different if it was just black women. versus all women.

And my point is- started the Me Too movement. She started it. She didn't, I'm saying she started it. But who do you see is the face of it? You don't just see her. That ain't who you see out there. Well, you see any woman that's been abused anywhere.

If you asked, if you polled women, if you polled women right now and you said who's a part of the Me Too movement, nobody would name her. I don't think that's true at all. But I get, I get that there are bigger stars that have been involved in it. And who's the face of it? I'm not saying who didn't start it. I'm saying who's the face of it. And my point is, is that all women came together to be this united force.

And we got, like, black people are going to, we are coming together. What I'm saying is, is that more than just us should come together. But we're coming together, for sure, but we're coming together to do what, though? Like, how are we? That's the question we've been asking since the beginning of this. What do we do? What I'm saying is, who's losing because we're losing? like what like what's the what are the states and I think that what frustrates me about

continuous appeals right appeals to the democrats or appeals to American culture at large the continuous appeals appeals to listen this is what's happening to us is that what you have to understand is I'm not talking about the fact that mainstream America culture is evil or doesn't care even though there's a part of me that believes to a degree that there is widespread apathy to the black experience in America. Widespread apathy. Obviously, that's, what I mean? There's a part of me.

I fucking know that there's widespread apathy. And a part of the reason that that's true is because people care about their lives. They care about whether or not their children are safe. Yeah. And if their kids are safe, then they care about your kids in their spare time. They care about your kids when it's in their face. And then for the rest of the time, they're got to care about their kids. So I just can't deal with any part-time activists.

Like, when they're off the clock for whatever they normally do and they want to come help out, that's cool. But I can't look over my shoulder for them. I have to kind of deal with and engage with the people that are living this every second of every day. And so I get what you're saying. I understand it. Great. But I kind of wish we didn't feel that way.

No, I wish we didn't have to, but isn't that why we're in the place that we're in right now? Because that's because of this. If we could just rely on us, if it could just be us, then we wouldn't even be in the situation that we're in right now. We're in a situation because people exploit us and have exploited us since the beginning and it's been advantageous for them to do so. I agree. If it's still advantageous for them to exploit us, we can't rely on them to stop exploiting us and hurting us just because. I'm saying that, I'm not saying that we have to have them. I'm not saying it like that.

I'm just saying they should want to, right? And I think that it could make a bigger, it would happen quicker if other people spoke up. That's, I guess, what I'm more so saying. Because I agree with you. Yeah, yeah, I'm telling you, look, I understand what you're saying. I'm sick and tired. I'm fed up. And now I have to ask you what's your favorite doja cat song.

Okay. You know. Because we're here, because look, do you know. Because these things tie together, the Doja Cat situation. Like, what's your favorite? Like, like,

I didn't even know who she was. I'll just, I'll just be quite honest. You're playing her. I had heard the name. I had no idea who Doja Cat was. I'm like, who is Doja Cat? Why is she in the media?

Who is, I knew she was an artist, but I'm not familiar with her work. I am now because she's all up in the media. Right. But prior to this conversation, I don't, she could have walked past me on the street. and I wouldn't have known who she was.

See, here's where the Doja Cat drama plays into all of this. And if you guys haven't been keeping up with this, Doja Cat is an incredibly successful, very beautiful young lady, very talented. She just got her first number one with Say So. It's a song that she had with her and Nikki Minaj. Good song, Rachel never heard it. Rachel's not fucking with Doja Cat. She was on the way up. She was, it was about to happen.

And of course, in today's society, when you are on your way up, it's time to find out how people can fuck you right over and they sure did a fantastic job on Doja Cat and she sure did give them She did it to herself. Enough for yeah for yeah for sure she did They gave her enough ammunition to do so

It turns out that she It was Participating in some Weird racist shit I guess would be the best way To explain what people said it was there was some chat rooms that she was in, tiny chat with some racist white in cells. It was also a song that she performed, that she recorded.

It's called Didn't Do Nothing, Didn't Do Nothing, Should I Say? And that term didn't do nothing is a white supremacist racist term. Did you know that before this? Yeah, I knew about that. I knew that. Okay, okay. I knew that that, like, because what happened is, you know, something happens to say Sandra Bland or George Lloyd. and they say, oh, he didn't do nothing.

Like making fun of the way black people talk and making fun of the fact that these, I guess, call into the question whether or not some of these deaths were actually brought on by the victims. She recorded that song and people connected the dots. Doja Cat is anti-black. Doja Cat is a sellout.

She's an Uncle Tom. And she's somebody that hates herself. She has since addressed this in a long Instagram Live where she pulled out a bunch of bullet points to remind Black America specifically that she loves herself,

that she is not a self-hating Uncle Tom Negro and that in her past, she has done things simply for attention, but now she understands that she was wrong. Do you have any understanding

of what's going on? Do you care? Do you understand why people are upset? I can see why you think I don't care because I did not know who she was. Right. But now after all the attention that she has gotten and I have looked her up and seen what she's about, I do care. And I think that it's bigger than, first of all, I saw her Instagram live and I have mixed feelings about that, just in general. I don't know if I necessarily am on board with everything that she's saying or if I necessarily believe her. She's just trying to win back the audience that she is now losing.

Which parts didn't you like? It was very disjointed and it did not make sense to me. Especially her, I don't understand why she was in these chats. I don't understand her reasoning for what they're calling race play and her allowing white people to call her. Did you see that? Yeah. I mean, she said she said she didn't race play is hilarious. She said she didn't.

She said she didn't have them call her the N-word. But she did. right in the video that I saw so it's Doja Cat she's in the chat room and she says inward hard ER inward around a bunch of what people are calling racist white incels incels meaning involuntary celibates guys who I looked it up to our dictionary involuntary celibus by the way the in cell thing is very dangerous there's been a lot of in cell I watched the whole BBC documentary on incels to get ready for this I guess the insales are guys guys and ladies who are involuntarily celibate, and because of this, they have all types of terrible feelings towards society, and they lash out and hurt people sometimes. So she was in a chat room with all of these people, and I guess she was, people were accusing Doja Cat of sort of being their

Negro bedwinch concubine, which is not going to fly with anyone. And she wanted to address those things. and you didn't feel like she addressed them properly. I didn't, I didn't get it. To me, the conclusion that I had, which is the bigger picture in the whole Doja Cat thing to me, is this internalized racism

that she, I think, has. She's biracial. Her father is, I don't know if you said this part, but her father is South African. She does not, she has a strained relationship, a strange relationship with her father, even though he has now come out and said that they do communicate.

Kate. So not really sure who to believe there. But anyway, it's safe to say she is not in touch with the black side of her family. She was raised by her white mother. She has made comments about her hair. She has made comments about her look. And it seems very much so internalized racism, which I think is the bigger picture. And it's something that runs rampant, especially with women in the black community. And so I actually felt sorry. for her when I watched her. I did it. I empathized with her.

I don't agree with what she was saying. But to me, it was that issue of you don't like the way that you look. You aren't comfortable in your own skin. And it brings up issues of skin bleaching. And I thought of Sammy Sosa. It brings up issues. The first thing I thought about when I watched her was imitation of life. If you guys aren't familiar with that movie, if you haven't seen it, please watch the,

please watch the 1954 version with Lana Turner and Mahalia Jackson. There's two versions. Watch the second one. It very much so reminded me that she is not happy with who she is. And I felt like I didn't experience this on the level of I've never been hated who I was or the way that I looked. But I dealt with other people putting that on me. Like black men saying that I needed to look a certain way. White people telling me that I needed to look a certain way or needed to. to be a certain way. And so with her, I felt sorry for her because she doesn't seem to be in touch with her black side. Who knows what she's been through? Yeah, I don't know how she grew up,

but it was very sad to me to watch her because I feel like that's why she was in these chat rooms. That's why she says the things that she says. She doesn't know who she is. And I don't know if you got that vibe, but that's the vibe that I got for her. She don't know who she is. well there's a couple of things i think that are at play one is uh sort of and she talked about it a little bit

that she's been going to these places for a very long time and so when you go to these places these different chat rooms or situations like this when everyone is trying to be uh provocative outlandish irreverent and say differing shocking types of things and everyone's competing for attention there's a certain uh that becomes a part of your personality. It becomes a part of who you are, what you do. And really, part of Doja Cat's appeal, not just the music, has been the fact that she is out there, you know, that she is wacky, that she is like, like I said, irreverent. Um, there are certain things that this culture, that black people that we don't like to play with. Like, we don't,

like, there's a certain, there's a time to play. And then there are certain things that are series. There are certain things that cut to the very core of who we are and how we access ourselves and our blackness and our beauty. There's one thing that is unforgivable, at least from the community that I came from in South Louisiana, and that's self-hate. We just don't forgive self-hate. The only thing that we've been able to cling to is the love of ourselves. Now, we express this sometimes in ways that aren't the healthiest. Sometimes we could love ourselves, better in different ways. But if someone comes out right now and says they don't want to be black,

that is an unforgivable sin. That's the, that, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's the mortal sin of, of, I know a lot of people that are like that. I don't know what motherfucking one. I'm not saying that they don't want to. All you got to do is hit that you're not fucking with this black. All you, and I'm done with you. I don't know, like, I don't know one.

But I think, but what I, but, but, but, but I understand what you're saying. For example. Remember the viral video that happened very, very recently with the little black girl who was getting her hair twisted and her hairstylist was telling her talking about doing her hair and she blurts out, I'm ugly. And the hairstylist starts immediately telling her how beautiful. I was in tears watching that. Hairstitist immediately tells her you're beautiful who told you that. That was a baby girl. And somewhere she got the notion that she wasn't a beautiful person.

I don't mean the self-hatred is I don't want to be black, just the self-hatred of, you see a lot of black women compare themselves of what is seen as stereotypical beauty and what is defined as beautiful in the media in print or whatever. And they compare themselves to that and they feel like that if they don't line up, they're not beautiful. And it starts at such a young age. You can go back to the experiments that they were doing with the Kenneth and Mamie Clark doll experiment back in the 1939, 1940s. It is embedded in our culture. That's why skin bleaching is such a big industry. And so it's not, I'm not, and so that's what this whole Doja Cat

thing is bringing up to me. It's not, I don't want to be black. It's I don't, I'm not beautiful. I don't know. I get that sisters, that sisters feel this way. My mom was very intentional about this, by the way. My mother, when I started getting in classes with all white kids,

my mother goes, my mother pulls me to the side, she goes, listen. She goes, I just want you to know something. Okay. You're going to go in here. She's like, you got big full lips. You got a king's nose. She was like, you look just like your daddy.

And he's the most gorgeous man in the world. You're beautiful. You're gorgeous. You're worth it. I love your mom. And she like, she just, my mother would always cut it off at the past. So before you get my son in the class and have him looking at his big Jackson 5 nose and his big lips and make him think that he not something, let me remind this boy

that he is beautiful and that remind my sister that she is beautiful. So I completely get that. And I understand that there's no way that I could relate to what sisters have to go through with black women have to go through, what women, period, but especially black women have to go through to appeal to a European body standard and beauty standard. I can't relate to that. but I guess what I'm saying with her is that it seems as if that mixed with sort of how the rhythm of the way things go in those chat rooms kind of got her a little bit out of the box in some respects to what black Americans feel like is acceptable or acceptable behavior around people who we know don't give a shit about us. Now, I personally don't like the idea of canceling people, and I think this is a very important conversation to have because now that Doja Cat is a musician,

she's going to be, she's going to rely on black culture in a lot of ways to propel her forward. And part of that is going to be her ability to demonstrate to those people that she loves and cares about them, okay? Because if they think she's don't, they're not going to fuck with her. I think the mistake that she's making more than any other mistake is not having a dialogue.

So if you do an Instagram live and she turned the comments off during the Instagram live and I understand that she's probably doing getting a lot of a lot of hatred, you have to give specifically black women in this who have questions. You have to give them a voice. They have to be able to talk to you.

It can't be about a set of bullet points and then you debunking them. I understand. And some of what she said made sense. But the one thing that, that black people don't want to feel the ones that I know. I'm not because I'm not, I never want to speak for all the black people.

They don't want to feel silenced and voiceless. So at some point, if she or anybody else is going to turn the page on this, and that's just not, not just her. Because there have been some other people that have gotten in trouble about things that they've done in the past. You're going to have to give people a voice

in order to speak to you and make sure that they understand, that you understand, should I say, what it is that they're talking about. So there's got to be dialogue, not just monologue. Can I ask you a question? Because I have a huge issue with this. And this can, and this can, we can talk about this in a bigger sense of things.

But when you aren't initially apologetic for what you've done and you only apologize after you've been outed, it's very hard for me to accept your apology as sincere. And I think that that's what I had with the issue with her live chat. You're saying that you did the didn't do nothing song because you were taking power back in the word, which is what we say about the N-word. But it doesn't make sense when you're a part of alt-right group chats and you talk about the texture of your hair and the way you look and there's this self-hatred about your black appearance. So now all of a sudden we're supposed to believe that you had a song about black power when nothing about you says that. I think that's what I have such an issue with her about is would we be here? from you in this way if you hadn't been out of it.

So it's very hard for me to believe her. Yeah. I mean, look, I understand that. As a man, I understand that all too well. Because men, we have something that we do. I call it dickhead momentum. Okay. So this is what a dickhead momentum is, okay?

Like, you're in a relationship. Your wife tells you something, your girlfriend, your husband, whomever. This is specifically something that men, I've seen. It's a specific thing that men deal with more. than other people. Dickhead momentum. You know that you're wrong. Okay.

Okay. But initially, you've got so much dickhead momentum invested into this argument that you got to ride with it for a while. That's a thing that happens. Like you said, like, you're driving,

right? And you knew you were supposed to turn off. You know that she knows you were supposed to turn off. Okay. you can't look at her right now and say my bad I was wrong you can't do it it's not allowed they sit us down when we're kids and they go don't do that even like it's not allowed you have to either get mad or you have to bring up some old shit you sometimes but you can't just say you I got to turn around you have to you can't do that so you can only admit

that you're wrong this is by the way this is not me the enlighten me this is the old me Oh, okay. You can only admit that you're wrong after she has a clear-cut, flawless victory. So that's the only time. So I understand why people don't come out right away and go everything I was to say was fucked up. It's a lot of dickhead momentum building up. The question is, how much of a dickhead are you going to be? And I think that's the question everyone has to ask for themselves.

Let me just tell you, what you just said can be summed up in one word. It's called pride. What you just described when you said a dickhead? moment? Pride. Yeah. Pride. Yeah. Pride. Yeah. Ego. Yeah. But look, for her, for her, it's, it's, it's more pernicious than that because for someone like that, she's selling culture. She's a culture merchant. Anyone that's, anyone that is selling culture to somebody, you're selling music. There's a certain way that you did. Like, she's on, like, she's in the culture now. She might have not been before. That certainly wasn't when she was in the tiny chat. in-sale chat rooms. I mean, to a degree she is, she's rapping. And so, and like, and. That don't mean anything.

It, it, I mean, it does depending on how you do it, right? So if, like, meaning there are rappers that are outside of it, and then there are rappers that are inside of it. She's working with Nikki Minaj. She's working with Miguel. Takashi, Takashi 6-9, work with Nikki Minaj. I know, but here's the thing, though. He definitely, definitely, definitely, definitely try to,

to interlope into the culture. I just want to get you riled up about Takashi. By the way? I know how you feel about it. By the way, we've decided, we've made it a rule. No Takashi here. They're old.

They are, it's coming all the way from the top. They are needling me wanting to toss some Takashi 6-9, but we don't really do it. But look, so by the way, like I guess I'll ask you, I mean, you, the Doja Cat thing, did you accept her apology? as a black woman. Did you get it?

I will always accept Samani's apology. You know, I'm not here to judge whether or not, you know, what you meant what you said. If you're going to, if you're going to, I appreciate that she did a written apology and that she came out and did a lot. Maybe she's not interacting with us, but she still came out for 15 minutes almost and talked. So I'll appreciate that. But I don't always just accept the apology. It's like, okay, I hear you. But now what are you going to do?

Now I'm watching you. What are you going to do from here? I want to see that. you really are about your black people. I want to see that you are about the culture. Do you really love yourself? What song are you going to make from here? What are you going to be in touch with your South African side?

Who are you going to empower? Who are you going to empower? I'm waiting. I'm watching. Now I'm watching you. I accept. I hear you. And now I'm watching.

Yeah. I assume that you're voting for vice president. Are you the type of person that talks about who you're voting for and stuff like that? Do you get into the whole? Yeah, I've no, I've no, I've no problem talking about that. So you talk, you're, you're voting for vice president Biden? I mean, I'm voting for down. I mean, if you want to make an announcement right here on the podcast that you're, I mean, look, I'm, hey.

What are you trying to say? I just told you who I was voting for. Well, no, I'm saying, politically, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I'm not trying to put you in a box. I don't want to make a such. You won't. I promise you won't. Just talk to me. You won't put me in a box. So you're, so you're, so you're, so you're, so you're, So you're voting for, you voted for Donald Trump in 2016, is what you're saying. Why would you say that? No, I did not.

Okay, please don't make that the clip. I did absolutely not. I've actually, I've actually honestly never voted Republican. You and Hannah B voted together. Like, y'all voted. Can we do something right now before we move on to Joe Biden? Can we talk a little bit about the bachelor? Can we silence?

Can we, oh, what are you going to talk a little bit about the? The Bachelor. Just a little bit about the Bachelor. Okay. Because we're going to go to, we're going to talk about Vice President Biden and whether or not we're black enough. But we haven't really, we haven't yet discussed this. Because you come from a world that you know nothing about. I don't give a fuck about it. Okay. But so many people give a fuck. I know. I know. And that's crazy? So many people give a fuck. They like people give so many fucks about The Bachelor.

It's crazy. It's weird. It's like, it's cult-like. And truly, I did not watch the show, and I'm very vocal about this. I didn't watch it before I went on it. Most of my friends didn't even watch it. My coworkers nominated me. Whatever, we don't need to get in all that.

Point is, I had no idea what I was getting into until I got into it. Now I'm in this thing. What upsets me most about this whole situation with Hannah Brown is that people like you. You don't watch The Bachelor. No, no, no, no. You don't watch The Bachelor. You don't know much about it at all. No.

But I bet you know two things. What? One, you know that the show isn't for people of color. Do you know that? Yeah, they've never had a black man on there. Never had a black lead and I was the first black female. Okay? Right.

Mm-hmm. You know that if you know nothing else. And now you know that one of their leads gets on her live and says, nigger in her song to her followers and then laughs through an apology of it. That's what you know because it's out there. Right. Right. So it upsets me because I am a part of a franchise and I am affiliated with this.

And this is for people like you who know nothing else, this is what you know. So it's very reflective of me. And I have a huge, huge problem with that. And I've spoken at great lengths about, you know, whether it's on my social media or I've done, you know, I did another bachelor person's podcast and I talked about it and I tried to explain the history of the word. But what I've come to the conclusion is that if you want to hear me, you want to hear me. And if you don't, you're not even trying to. And that's pretty much a lot of what I've realized with this Bastard Nation audience.

They're extremely toxic. They are set in their ways. And they don't want to see it any other way. So obviously, me having come from TMZ, I know what is like to be the Inc. Dot, you know what I mean? And I also know what it is like to have to go to. Like, I know what it is like to have to go to bat for an organization that keeps sticking its foot in the fucking fucked up cultural bear trap and how taxing that can be.

And really, how that's not something that you want to do. That's a zero-sum game. That's like not where you want to be. Just saying, it's a thing that happens. And it's very undesirable. I guess what I would ask you about the experience with her and with the Bachelor is the fact that the show, because forget about her, because I got a, I got

I got to let you guys know something. All your white friends that you think are the coolest people that you want to use your voice. You want, all these white people that you want to use their voice. Are you talking to you? Are you talking to you?

The white people that you want to use their voice to help out black people and all of that stuff, as soon as you leave them, 65% of them nigger, nigga, nigga, nigga, nigga, nigga, if you think that your friends, if you think that your friends

are driving down the street, listening to Trinidad Goal, O'Trad James, all go everything, and bleeping the N-word out. You wilding. I've been around it. I've seen them say it in front of me. I know this.

Oh, nah, that doubt. Now, see, that wouldn't happen. You too, like, don't, you know, in the tiny chat rooms? No, no. I'm not saying, I'm not saying I don't check them, but I'm saying is. Look, shut them.

the fuck up. You ain't about to doja cat me. You ain't about to do that to me. Let me tell you something. I've seen, I've seen white people get very comfortable around me. I've been categorized as, oh, no, you're not like them, you're different. And I am very quick to let you know, yes, I am. So please, I might have been on The Bachelor. I might have a Latino husband, but I'll tell you one thing. I know exactly who I am. And I will definitely tell you that Exactly who I am. I guess what I would say is

What I'm asking is about the bachelor Specifically, the bachelor's never had a black male Bachelor. And it came from that. They've had Jesse Palmer. Shout out to college football. But they've never had a black, you know. And I'm very vocal about this.

They never have. I went off when they didn't pick this last one. Like, isn't that isn't that? Isn't that dime store 10 cent racism? Isn't that not even the, that's not even the racism that we've come to respect? That's not even the, oh shit, wait, I get it, that's racist. You ref Scali and racist mother.

That's not even, that's like old school bull Connor. Don't drink at the fountain racism. Is that not true? You were, I, ever since I've become the lead and been a part of this franchise, I've been very vocal about increasing diversity. I, like you said, I've even been the person who it's like, you got to, you got to, you're part of this. So, you know, you're, you got to, you can't totally throw it under the bus, but you also have

to represent who you are. After this last season, when they did not pick this guy named Mike Johnson, a veteran, black, professional, attractive guy, the, checks every single. box and people loved him, I went off because I'm like, at this point, you have basically said exactly who you are by not picking him. You don't want to because at the end of the day, you have the power to do whatever it is you want. You can make an audience fall in love or hate somebody. I've seen it. It's happened to me. And the fact that you are still, it's been 24 seasons. And I said this, so the last bachelor was Peter and I said, we've had 24

Peters. We've had 24 of them. They all look alike. You put them in a picture. There's no difference. At this point, it is on the franchise as to why we do not have a person of color that's the lead. Can't make excuses for it. Can't try to look at it any other way. Any way you slice it, the fact that we haven't had a black male lead when we have had qualified people is on the franchise, period. Have you spoken to Hannaby? She needs to refer to her team because that's what she's done from here on out. I have not spoken to her since I spoke to her about going on her live. I did try to reach out to her. I did try to, and we did have a conversation.

And I was very, I very much so tried to use it as a point of, let me not condemn you for what you did. How can we make this a bigger conversation? And when that door was closed, then I had to speak out on it. I can't be the only black female lead. and not discuss a white bachelorette saying the N-word publicly to your 2.8 million followers.

I have to say something about that because it directly impacts me. Don't worry. She's going to go ultra-black now. Now, like now, watch. Are you kidding me? You're going to see in like a Chris Brown video or something like that now.

Are you kidding me? She doesn't have to. She's empowered by an audience of people, as you said, these fans are intense that supports her. She doesn't have to. She's going to go right back to the way to doing what she was doing before.

I guess. Well, look, here's it. So, you know, this episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable Internet means everything for your business and even this podcast.

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Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. I wanted to get into that real quick, but I also wanted to talk to you about because you said that you're not a Trump supporter. And we're going to take your word for that.

And like, but the question is, are you completely enamored and in support with an in lockstep with the Democratic Party? this is the reason why I'll ask you this question. There are a lot of a lot of people in the culture right now, a lot of black people that are falling out of love with the Democrats. The Democrats have

been the party that has sort of been able to galvanize the African American vote over the last couple of generations. And there's been a lot of questions that are being asked right now what have we really gotten for our support of the Democrats? And it seems

like that conference, is coming to a head in this particular election. And there are a lot of voices out there that are prominent. Charlemagne and God, Didia said some things regarding this. Shout out to both of those brothers. And one flashpoint moment for that was, speaking of Charlemagne, Joe Biden was on the Breakfast Club. Smart decision by Team Biden to go on the breakfast club.

Are you saying that facetiously? Are you, are you saying? Wait, I feel sad for them. And I'll tell you why I feel sad for Team Biden about going on the breakfast club. It's something that they had to do. But they've been putting it off for months. They, they,

it was the last thing that they wanted to do. You know what I mean? It's like, it's like being a man when you feel a lump on one of your balls, like Lance Armstrong, right? Like Lance Armstrong, think about this. You feel a lump on your balls.

I can tell you just watched the 30 for 30. I did, but think about it. Lance Armstrong had to cough up blood before he went and got a mask on his testicles checked out. He had to like, thank God that Lance is okay. And thank God that everybody. But think about how he didn't want to go to the doctor. He rode his bike with his balls hurting for years until he coughed up blood.

That is the same amount of enthusiasm. Shut up. The Biden campaign had. about going on the breakfast club. I guarantee you they didn't want to do it. They did it. And God damn it, it was a shit show. Joe Biden went on the breakfast club.

Everyone knows now and said that if you dare vote for Donald Trump over Joe Biden, then you ain't black. You ain't black. Your thoughts immediately when you heard that. My whole thing first with Biden, I laughed when he first said it because I thought, my guy, you went on here and you got super comfortable to where you had what they call the Joe Biden gap. My thing, what bothered me is that you got so comfortable too that you assumed that you have the black vote because you are the Democrat. And I think that that is what is the problem with Democrats. You assume you have our vote. Now, in this election, you 100% have my vote because what is the,

other option, even if you are dissatisfied with the Democratic Party, what are you going to do, not vote? If you don't vote, that is a vote. And we've seen that happen before, which is why Trump is our president. I'm more motivated by getting him out of office than I am for anything else. And so what bothered me the most is that you felt entitled that you had our vote because you are a Democrat, not because of what you've done for us as a leader, not because of what you've done for us as a party, but because simply you are a Democrat. And that's what I think really got to me more than anything in that statement. Yeah, I think it was an inside thought on the outside.

And I think it's incredibly problematic. I'm not in any way going to vote for Donald Trump. No. Yeah. Like, I think that and beyond sort of the racial dynamics that exists there, I think that we've seen a pretty incompetent administration in terms of Donald Trump. I think that there are a lot of people who would be breathing right now that aren't breathing because this administration doesn't seem to prioritize anything like it prioritizes hubris and cozy enough to corporate power. Those are political musings that I particularly have.

to know though that someone would use to the thing with blackness is that blackness was earned it was like our ancestors earned it they earned it by work and sacrifice and strife they earned it they built this country they earn blood sweat tears

blood sweat tears they earned their place in it so when we say that we're black When we talk about blackness, we're talking about sacrifice. No white man can tell you whether or not you're black or not, no matter what you do. Like that price was paid, that cultural price was paid for you a long, long time ago. Now, you might not be down, you know? Like if you vote for Trump, you're certainly not down, but there's nobody that's white in America that can tell you whether or not you're black. It's just, and they even try to do that casts anyone who would say something like that.

And we should say that since then, Vice President Biden's team has apologized. And that apology was sincere. And I accept that apology. But what the Democrats don't want to do is cast them their servants, not overseers. They serve us. We're the voters. Right. They don't, we owe them nothing.

They owe us everything. And so that was the most. And I tweeted about it. I tweeted, I said that, you know, the Democrats have to show the ability to do something for us. And the entitlement is dangerous. And a lot of people got at me because they thought that I was endorsing a vote for President Trump. And I'm not. I'm just saying if we want results, we have to be about holding them accountable at some point.

Well, and that's what I will. Again, it's just words right now. And we can't. We don't know if there's going to be an. behind it until we see who is in office. But what this also brought out to me, though, is how important the black vote is. And you saw that by the outrage of how black people felt with him saying, you ain't black. And then you saw how President Trump tried to capitalize on it. Because the black vote is important. And if anything else, we should see how our vote matters

and how people are trying, not people, these politicians are trying to seek our vote. My thing, with Joe Biden is he did apologize, which is more than we ever see from Trump. And he also put out a plan of action, which is something that Charlemagne challenged him to do. He said, I hear you, but what's the black agenda? And he put forth that. So now we can hold him accountable to this is what you said your plan of action is. This is how you were going to help us on multiple platforms. So now we are saying, okay, I like where your head is. Now let's see you put some action to it because if you really do what you say you're going to do, then I want to see it. And I think also people are saying, who are you going to put as your running mate? Who are you going to put to stand

next to you? Is that person going to be a part of the black agenda as well? Who is going to be your vice president? Now, here's my question to you. Do you think that that means he has to have, because he's already said it's a woman. We know that. We got gendered. We got gendered down. Do you think that that means he has to have a black woman as his running mate? To me, it does. So then who, but then there's, there's, I've heard three names really be out there. Mm-hmm. And two are actually more viable than three.

Well, I mean, to me, right now, it's pretty, it's pretty clear they'll either be Val Demings or Kamala Harris. I can't imagine it would be Kamala. You know, you never know how these things go. I will tell you one thing that's, that's interesting. I think the breakfast club appearance almost assured to be a black female running mate. To me, and I'll tell you why, this is two reasons why I want a black woman in the VP spot.

One reason is that it is an acknowledgement that black voters are responsible for Joe Biden being the Democratic nominee, the presumptive Democratic nominee right now. It's just getting something in terms of representation for black people getting out there and really delivering the primary season to Joe Biden. That's the first thing. The second thing is that if there is going to be a comprehensive black agenda that is going to be one of the main focuses of the Biden administration, then I would like to see a black woman be very interesting. instrumental in shepherding that.

It is, in my opinion, black women's time to lead. They have been denied so many opportunities and so much access to power in American culture, really, for as long as American culture has existed, that they are one of the last groups that has the opportunity to redirect the course of the country. And I think if the Democrats really,

want to prove to people that they're serious about not only fixing the country, then you've got to empower some new voices. And I'd really like to see the Biden the Biden people do that. And it's going to be very telling to me if they don't. I think after the Breakfast Club interview,

it is telling to me if they don't. That put more pressure. Before it was a conversation, now it's like, no, actually, it needs to happen. And I think that it will affect him if he doesn't. But then at the same thing,

time it's Trump is the other option. And people are so motivated to get him out of office that it just might be okay for Biden to get a pass in this. Have you seen Mike Tyson recently? Yeah, he looks good. He looks good.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Was that you fighting? Wait, wait, wait, hold on for a second. No, I think the camera just twitched just a second. No, I was just moving my hair. I think the camera just moved a little bit. That was your fighting. I think the camera just,

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But wait. Have you seen the video of him fighting? He didn't look nothing like that. That's not my point. I have seen the video.

He looks good. Do you think that they sped that up? Because I'm convinced that that was in fast forward. I'm convinced that that was a time's two. I'm convinced that was fast forwarded. No, they didn't speed it up. Why was you saying they sped it up? It looked like it.

And I needed to see if he was out of breath because we got about 10 seconds. That's muscle memory right there. Mike is back. First of all, Mike had got so fat around the hangover era. Just for Mike's, I guess his health, I'm glad that he is looking and feeling better. But it's like I saw that video, right?

And now Mike Tyson is talking about a comeback. I saw that video. And people are putting that video up saying, yo, there's no heavy weights out there that could beat Mike Tyson. Do people know how fucking stupid they sound? Correct. Anyone who said that Mike Tyson could beat Deontay Wilder, Povetkin, Klichko, or any of these people. Fury.

It's a joke right now. I love Iron Mike, but you have to remember that the size of these fighters that are out there now, Mike had problems with these guys at this size when he was in his prime. Mike is not coming out and beating any of the top of the ways. However, there's talk of a fight with Evander Holyfield. Okay. Okay. That's just funny in itself.

But what I was going to say is, one, that video was 10 seconds long. We don't know if Mike was huffing and puffing when they pressed stop on that video. I don't know what kind of shape he's, and you can't tell that from a 10-second video, and I'm convinced it was fast-forwarded. Two, it is $20 million supposedly that he's being asked to be paid, or he's going to get paid. What does Mike have to lose? That's $20 million. He definitely would. What?

Of course he's going to fight for $20 million. Now, will he win? No, the man hasn't fought since 2005. It's been 15 years. I like Mike too. Now, but would you, assuming audiences come back and this is a time where we can all congregate, Would you pay to go see Tyson and Holy Phil fight? I would pay to watch it on pay-review.

Okay, so you wouldn't go to the fight. At this point, I wouldn't go to the fighting. I wouldn't go to a fight if Jesus was fighting Lucifer. There's no like if you couldn't get me in a place with that many people. You couldn't get me if the Christ child himself were there. Like Jesus, it's like really him. Like I wouldn't go. I'm not going to nothing.

I would. I'd be front row asking for a blessing. No, I know. I'm not, no, no, because, you know, the way the Bible works, if you read your Bible, the way the Bible works is you're going to go and you're going to watch Jesus fight Lucifer, then you're going to get sick, and God's going to be like, listen, I told you to use discernment. I'm sorry, what verse was that? What verse was that?

What chapter is that? I'm saying, like, people know the way where I'm at. Don't invite me. I'm not coming. If there's more than three people there, I'm not. Like, I'm not coming. Van, is, wait a minute. Is this because you don't wear a mask?

Because you just got a mask if I'm right. Oh, I got a mask. Hold on. Let me go get it. Hold on real quick. If I'm correct. Oh, how did you get one of those? I feel like those haven't been in stock for a while.

You got an N95? You got your N95 now? Yeah. Can you see this joint? Look at this joint. I'm proud of you. Number one, I always had a mask, but this mask is different because it's breathable.

Look, I look like a chocolate bang. This is like, it's breathable and you breathe out and it like it does the thing. I know that if you listen to this audio wise, you can't see it, but we got video available for you guys. And I have a really cool, sleek-looking, amazing mask and now I feel amazing. Let me please educate everybody. Van is acting like he has this new mask that nobody has had before that just came out. It's your typical N95 masks that people have been wearing for months now. You just are new to all of this.

You're talking like you just have something novel on your face. I mean, I'm new to it. I mean, I'm new to a mask. I hate wearing, I got to be honest with you. I wear the mask because Dr. Fauci says to wear the masks. And I, unlike the rest of you, ninkum poops out there, I listen to the advice of medical experts. So I wear my mask. I hate wearing a mask.

I wear, I have like eight. I hate wearing a mask. I hate it. The mask is, first of all, is that me? Is my breath like that? because the mask is like, the mask is revealing some things that I didn't know about myself. I don't have that problem.

All right, yeah. Well, I think there's a lot of people that Rachel that have discussed the fact that you're in your mask and you're not realizing that it smells like oregano when it's coming back into, you know what I mean? It's like a weird smell. It's not even bad breath. It's like a, it's not bad breath like halitosis.

It's like a sour. It's like a sour thing. That sounds like bad breath, man. No, I don't have a bad breath. breath, okay? Like, I've never... So you don't smell... So you tell me

the inside of your mask, you don't smell nothing weird. I really don't. Maybe it's... Maybe it's the N-9... But see, you got... You have an N-95 where it comes, you can breathe out of it.

It's definitely... It's not a N-95. It's just, it's not an N-95. It's like an athletic mask type of deal with the rubber thing. It's not an N-95. And by the way, I was smelling this in the other mask, too.

It's something weird. Oh, okay. Okay, you can try to correct it. But look, I can't run with my mask on, right? I can't. And you should. You shouldn't run with it. They say you should wear one outside at all times now. No, I think because, I mean, when I'm walking my dog personally, okay, this is, this sounds very vain. But I'm in Miami. It's hot. I can't breathe. It's humid. The sun is out. I do not want a tan line

halfway across my face. Wow. So I take it off. But when I get in close proximity with people, I put it back on when I'm outside. Yeah. I've very much so follow the rules. I'm very much so into the mask. And like you, I don't want to congregate with a lot of people, unlike our other black brothers and sisters who were whaling out this past weekend from Memorial Day. You just got to make it about black people. And there was people all throughout the Ozarks. I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. No, see. I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. There's people all throughout the Ozarks that was whaling out. Pools and pools of white people. you why? Because white people aren't affected by this disease, the virus the same way that we are.

20,000 black people have died in this country. That's a fifth of the deaths in this country. We're approaching 100,000 if we haven't already hit it by the time this podcast comes out, it probably will. 20,000 black people have died. We are affected by this disease more than our white counterparts. I feel like we have to take more stringent, you know, we have to act in a day. We have to act in a different way than they do. We have to be more cautious than they do. I'm not saying that they're wrong, that they're not wrong. I'm just saying knowing how this disease affects us in multiple ways, we should not be going out to pull parties Memorial Day at the club in close proximity with other black people, where maybe you're fine, but you're taking this home to as the attorney,

not attorney, as the surgeon general said, to big mama. Remember what he said? Yeah, to Big Mama. I will say I did, I did see a video that came from someplace in Atlanta and it was cracking. When I say it was cracking, it wasn't cracking like social distancing cracking. It was cracking circa 2018. Yeah. Like it was cracking like before. And it bothered me.

But what I don't want to see and, you know, TMZ has been called out about this if we're talking about former places that I, that I've worked. I saw a meme of a bunch of people at some rock in Utah, right? And it was a very sort of politely written, almost vanilla headline that said something like, oh, everybody's out on this rock and blah, blah, blah, blah. People couldn't wait to get back outside in Utah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and all these people were white. And then there was a house party in Chicago, and it was like, look at these people. like not at air in the social distancing. It's a party.

Who couldn't care less? So irresponsible or whatever like that. But I don't want to see as black people become the face of social distancing irresponsibility. I agree. And that's because people are doing that everywhere. The Ozarks look like the rehab pool at Vegas. It was ridiculous.

And we're seeing that in Orange County. We're seeing that in a lot of places. Yeah. It's just like a lot of white people. I don't want to see us become the poster child of that. But I just wish that we would pay attention to how this is. There are so many things that we have to fight in this country, and now we got to fight coronavirus.

And I just wish that we would be more, we would pay attention to how this is affecting us and be more responsible in our actions. I'm not saying you can't hang out with your friends. I'm just saying you don't need to be at whatever party is popping, because I'm specifically thinking of what I saw in Houston, because I'm from Texas. Right.

And there were flyers. there were pool parties. I saw us in the pool. We don't even normally get in the pool like that. I mean, it was like an all-out party. We get in the pool just not the deep end. You know what I'm saying? They were in the deep end.

Wow. It was a full-out party. And I just, yeah, I'm just holding us. Yes, I am. Maybe I'm being unfair, but I'm holding us to a different standard because of how it is attacking us. Yeah, you want an increased level of seriousness because there's an increased level of threat. Exactly. Boom.

I mean, there was nothing else to say after that. That was perfect. The NBA is full of black people. You don't care. No, I care. But go ahead. Keep going on. What did you think that I was going to say there?

You thought I was going to something different? Well, you said the NBA is full of black people. Is that not a true fact? I think that's the truest fact in America today. The NBA is full of black people. Okay. And they might soon because what you're doing in right now is you're ruining a gold chip, A standard number one gold medal segue.

Then let me stop. What I was going to say is this, the NBA is full of black people who might soon be congregating on the basketball court. Boom! That's what I'm talking about. The league might be coming back. Just one question for you. Do you care at this point?

it's not even about do I care. I just don't see it happening. How is it going to happen? Oh, it's definitely coming back. But this is me maybe putting on my lawyer hat and just thinking there are so many risks involved with this. Because it's not if it is when one player gets Corona because it is going to happen. I don't care what you do.

Somebody's going to get it. Then what? Do we shut all down? Because now you got to check. Players, the teams that they played, the team that they're currently playing, the teams that they've played in the past. You got to check refs. You got to check coaches. You got to check staff. You got to sanitize everything that this player has come in contact with. And now I just, right before we got on this podcast, I saw a report about them trying to work out a way that families

can be a part of it. Too many people involved. It just doesn't make sense how it can happen because when the person gets it, it's got to shut down. Then what? Then is it going to run into the next season? We're approaching. I don't know. And also, we don't know what's the structure of this is going to be. Are there scrimmages? Do we start up the regular season again? Is there going to be some type of tournament that counts you in for the playoffs? How long will the playoffs go? When do we cut it off?

Will this bleed into the next season? I just don't understand. We're taking so much time to get this to work. I don't see how it can work. And so therefore, all that to say, no, I'm not interested. You're not as interested because you don't think that it's feasible, not because you wouldn't want to see it. And because I've gotten used to basketball not being on at this point.

point. I mean, like, I'm entertained in other ways. And so I feel like I've kind of come to grips with basketball's not happening. So I'm preparing for it to happen in this upcoming 2021 season. And I'm at peace with that. Aren't you at peace? I am. Look, I'm at peace with. There's so many things personally that I've had to make peace with over these last these last couple of months that basketball wouldn't be something that would jar me into the woes me, what's happening with the world, Soylent Green, you know, end of Planet the Apes situation. That's not going to be the thing that makes me feel like, oh, the fucking shit is all coming apart because we don't have NBA basketball.

I think that there are other things that I'm more concerned about. It would be nice to be able to turn on a game and see a game, but I'm not, that was one of the things, sort of those creature comforts, that that's some of the. stuff that I was able to adjust to pretty quickly. I don't think that I care about any specific form of entertainment coming back anymore, like in the short term. And that's hard for me to say because even like college football, right? Like, it's almost to me, it's almost to me it's jarring to think about LSU plans.

landing in an empty tiger stadium because there's a scene in interstellar and I never really thought about the movie in this way, but there's a scene in interstellar where they're at a Yankee game. And the Yankee game, because of the state of the world, it's really a terrifying scene. The Yankee game is being held in like a cornfield. Like it's like it's a real baseball game. Okay. But it's the New York Yankees because the world has been so decimated by whatever unnamed play comes in Interstellar that they're playing major league baseball games in these small little cornfields

almost like Field of Dreams type of situations. And the grandfather says, you know, who's played by John Lithgow, he says, you know, in my day, we had baseball games in great big stadiums with thousands of people and all of that. And when I watched that scene, even then I was like, damn, what a terrifying prospect that we might live in a society one day where the Yankees are playing in the cornfield because we have so many bigger problems than putting on a baseball game. Yeah. And part of me feels like I might freak out watching LSU playing an empty stadium because it might be like, we're there. I think you just won't see the audience.

You know what I mean? I think that there's a way that- to not see them. I think that there's a way for it to be broadcast to where maybe you have like some type of soundtrack in the background where you can hear crowd sharing. We know that things are different though.

We can't lie to ourselves. And it's weird. It's like we know that it's we know that things aren't the same. I would rather, I would rather everything start back and I know that economically, by the way, economically this can't happen. The NBA will be back because the NBA has to come back.

College football will get played this fall because college football has to get played this fall. But for me, I would almost rather see things back at 100% than in some weird version, some ghost version of it. No, I absolutely understand that. But with basketball, I'm kind of over that.

I just feel like we're so close to the start of next season that we can let it go. By the time they figure all of this out, we're on to the next season. And then it's just more of this season will be marked. Will your championship count? Will be respected in the same way? You know there's going to be a 30 for 30 on this.

We're going to look back at this 10 years from now and remember that 2019-20 season. I'm just over it. Football hasn't started yet. They're already talking about the SEC announced that they're opening up their facilities in June. So that's getting back started. So I'm more so like, okay, we're going to have football. Maybe not with the audiences. Maybe we'll have the track.

in the back, the booze and the cheers. Let me tell you something. The NBA is coming back. And if anybody has any money, bet every dime that you have that the Lakers are going to win the NBA championship and I'll tell you why. The Lakers are 100% winning the NBA championship

when the NBA comes back. There's not a more LeBron situation than this one. Keep going. for the LeBron to win this championship in the weirdest season the NBA has ever seen is like nothing that LeBron can do can solidify anything, right? LeBron goes to Miami, he's with two of the best players. LeBron goes to, he goes to win in Cleveland. It's like they were good.

They got there every year. they were able to pill one off, cool. There's nothing he can do to make people go, okay, this guy is the man, Michael Jordan level. When he wins this championship, it's going to be like, yeah, but. Everything LeBron James does, it's yeah, but. He is the greatest yeah, but athlete of all time.

And this is the greatest yeah but season that we have ever seen in, any sport. The Lakers are going to win and LeBron and they're going to be like, yeah, but man, the season was so crazy. Players were scared. People's heart wasn't any, he ain't no joy because think about it. When a championship with the Lakers would be LeBron being the ace on three different championship teams, three different places, three different franchise. That normally would catapult him up into a situation that almost no one has ever been in. but because it's going to happen this way,

the yeah butters are going to be right there. That's how you know it's going to happen for LeBron this year. You know what? I just figured out after you said all of that. What? I really am not interested in this season because after listening to everything that you said

and you're not wrong. And your whole argument, all I kept thinking about is, and I don't care. You don't care. I am so checked out. And I think that's how most people would feel. Bill. Okay, so you won. You want, you want, yeah. And you're right. The whole yeah, but thing,

perfect. It's so true. But I don't care. I'm already thinking about football season. Do you care about the fact that Azalea Banks slept with Dave Chappelle? Is that, are you saying that as fact or as her, as her, what she classed? I'm saying that that's what she said. Whether she did or didn't. Who cares? I can't. That's like, I can't. That's like, it's, It's Takashi 6-9 to you is what Azealia Banks is to me. I can't. Oh, whoa. I know which clip is going on Twitter now.

I can't. I can't talk about her. I can't talk about her because she is somebody who is so talented, but all now that we care about is what outrageous claim she is going to make against some famous person that's going to get her trending on Twitter. Twitter. That's what she's been deduced to at this point. And I'm not, and I'm not here for it. And she is somebody with so much talent. I mean, I, you, you don't want to say anything. Rachel, she is going to write your ass up. Okay, let's make a list real quick. Let's

eight mile this. Because you, because one, because once Azaleigh Baines gets wind of the fact that you just call me Clarence. No, I didn't. I said a little bit. Let's email this. Once she gets wind of the fact that you just dissed her, which you did, okay, she is going to light you up. She's getting all in your ass is what's going to happen. So make a list of things right now.

Basically, Jimmy Rabbit yourself, make a list of things that Azalea Banks can attack you on so that you can get out in front of them. Go for it. I want to hear what you. You would attack Rachel Lindsay on if you were attacking Rachel Lindsay because that's now going to happen. She was, so what I was on The Bachelor? I feel like I should start freezing on. So what I was on the Bachelor, I married a non-black guy. Oh, that's one.

Boom, she's going to get on your ass about that. Keep going. Okay, my Colombian husband, okay. I really am trying to figure out what else she's going to say. You know what, what would you say about you if you were dissing you? I mean, other than the Bachelor, me being on the Bachelor and not marrying a black man, I don't know what else she's going to say. I mean, I'm quite curious. What's going to happen?

But let's not forget, I was a litigator in a formal life, which means I know how to go toe to toe with somebody in a courtroom. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. Miss Lindsay, did you just say that you want smoke with the Zalia Banks? I didn't say I want it. I'm just saying I know how to defend myself. But at the same time, I guess my thing with the Zellia is, as I've said as well, I think she's so talented.

I think it's unfortunate that she has been deduced to only going after people when it gets her a headline. when she could be so much better than that. Right, right. Okay. And that's why I don't want to talk about her because there's nothing to talk about. Oh, here we, oh, oh, Azelia Banks again is going after somebody.

What's new? Another day. She's going after somebody. So, okay. I'm going to look. You want this. You want this. And you better have my back.

You better have my back when she comes out of me. Right. Look, you, I just want to let you know. It's real quick, just so we know, just so we know, you said that Zellia Banks, gosh, she's six, nine, that's fine. No, I said to you, what he is to you, like you don't want to talk about it. You don't want to bring him to him to be a subject on the show. That's how I feel about her.

I don't want to talk about her. She doesn't bring us any value. There's nothing, there's no depth to it other than here we go again, where she's running her mouth about somebody who's famous for Clickbait. Me and my brother had a discussion about the Exelia Banks Dayshapel thing, because what she said was that that she had sex with Dave Chappelle who has been married for a long time.

By the way, here at Higher Learning, we don't do the bedroom police. We don't know whether or not Rezaalia Banks had sex with Dave Chappelle and we don't give a fuck about that. No, we don't. But if it's new to you guys, it's new to us.

So we, like me and my brother had a conversation is that she said that she slept with him and obviously he's married So that probably would cause some real. I don't know when this could have happened. Maybe this happened a long time. I don't know what was going on. I don't know anything about that, whatever, whatever.

But then she said, because I asked my brother, then she said that Dave Chappelle was a really good lover. And she said this to millions of people. And I asked my brother, so millions of people have now heard this. And I asked my brother, I was like, would there be a silver lining to having someone out you that way? if they came back and said, yeah, but it was off the chain. No, not if you're married with kids. Because all that's going to do is, like, yeah,

you're known as a good lover, but as far as personally, it's going to cause a problem in your household. All she did was solidify herself in his next stand-up. That's all she did. I can't wait for his next stand-up because she's going to be a whole segment. She definitely will.

I just thought it was an interesting thing. I too believe. So I know how you would feel about that. I would feel like to me I would be, I would be mortified. It's just such a, but see for me it's like a whole different thing. All of that,

who was with who and I had sex with this person and I did this back in the day for clout. Most of the time, I find it, especially when you name names like that, I find it incredibly tawjure. Exactly. I do too.

I find it incredibly todgy when people do that. listen, I don't, I don't personally, I can't tell especially women how to, because there are cases where women talk about things like this where they've been done terribly. And I can't tell them not to share their truth. I just can't. But a lot of the times, just when it's like for fodder or whatever, it's just like, and this is coming from the TMZ guy, so it's like, whatever, you know. No.

I think that's, to be honest, what you mean. man, that's a dope place to stop because we got some momentum rolling into the next kind of shows, this kind of situation between you and Azelia Banks, man. Stop trying to start something. I didn't start anything. You started it. I have said the woman is talented. I would just rather not talk about her because there's nothing, there's no depth in a conversation

when we're just talking about how so-and-so is just trying to call somebody out for clout. You guys heard it. Rachel Lindsay. Rachel Lindsay, Big Rache. Big Rache is. That is on my Zoom. It says Big Rache on her Zoom. Big Rache said,

fuck Azelia Banks as a staff, a record label, and a crew. She said, higher learning podcast, we ain't scared of nobody. I would just like to point out that we are a joint force.

My opinions, we have shared opinions. My opinions are that of those Van Lathens as well. So if you're going to come at one of us, you got to come at one of us, You got to come at both of us. All right.

Yeah, well, we'll see. We're a team. Everybody, we are happy that you are taking the time to learn with us. This is a fantastic situation that we're a part of. This is the first episode for everyone that clocked in and listened to us. We're excited to be here. And these are the types of conversations that you're going to get. We talked a little bit about it earlier.

I will say this before I throw it over to Rachel. It is a very taxing time to be a Black American. certainly is. And that's why we're appreciative that you guys would take a little time to come laugh, kick it, join us, do whatever. And we're going to be here for you twice a week every week to continue these conversations. Yes. Only thing I will add is if you like what you hear, if you have a comment, message us, DM Van. He loves that. But no, seriously, tell us what's up. Tell us what you want to hear us talk about because this is really about the culture is for you guys. we love having these conversations because we want to talk about what's relevant and how things are impacting our culture,

but we also want to make sure that we are giving you what you want to hear. Yeah. Sign off like this. Don't let these two hours be the only couple of hours that you learn every second or every day to learn with us the next time we get on here. Peace. Bye.