Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - ‘Growing Up Urkel’ With Jaleel White

Episode Date: December 20, 2024

Van and Rachel welcome actor Jaleel White to address backlash he received for comments on "hood" TV shows (12:10), where he ranks ‘Family Matters’ amongst Black sitcoms (22:22), stories of growing up and dating as a child star in ’90s L.A. (32:37), and the responsibility of parents to protect young actors from predators in the industry (1:22:07) Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Jaleel White Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Our learning is on. It's I, Van Lathen. And it's me, Rachel Lynn Lindsay. Van Lathen, Jr. Yeah, I was waiting for it. Shout out to Dad.

I love you, Dad. Rachel, you were just telling me about something that's very interesting. It's not in a rundown, but it's interesting to me. What happened now? Tell me what happens. Well, which thing? See, I get nerd. Whenever you start the podcast, because we were talking about personal and stuff,

and then I get nervous. I'm not talking about. your personal stuff, I will say that it is a, it's a, it's a great time in the personal life of Big Wrakes. I'm very happy. That's all I'm saying. That's all I'm going to say. But you were telling me about something else that just happened. Oh, oh, okay, so there was a, there was a time where we really had you wrapped in the Housewives world. Yeah, for sure. Particularly with Potomac. Potomac. You've fallen off and I get it because the last couple of seasons have been great, but it's back. It's good. We have new faces.

If you want more coverage of Housewives, please check us out on morally corrupt. Drops every Friday afternoon. But the Grand Dame, Karen Hugar. She has been in a lot of legal trouble. What happened to the Grandin? I think it was earlier this year, not last year, but she had a DUI. It's not her first go. I think it's her second DUI.

This time she ran into a tree. So it happened right before the season started filming. So they start off this whole season with the reenactment. Bravo knows exactly what they're doing. Now, they have a deer running across the road because I think that is what Karen said happened. She wouldn't talk about it on the season because she said it's an open case.

Makes sense. But she maintained her innocence. She was fighting the case. A lot of people are saying, why was she fighting? Probably had to because it is her second DUI. I think she's facing up to like two years in prison. Wow.

This morning... Two years in prison for the Grand Dame? Max. Second offense. So it drops either last night, this morning that she was found guilty. It was probably yesterday. Found guilty for the DUI and she's awaiting sentencing.

So because she was found guilty, they have released the footage, the body cam footage from that night. Karen was on one. This has got to be embarrassing for Karen. This is like not a laughing matter, but some of the things that she was saying, they were. There's a difference between drunk and being blackout drunk. Karen was blacked out. What did she say?

She said that she was Thomas Jefferson's concubine. Is she old enough? Really? Really? Because she's been looking great. I actually saw her last weekend. She said she's Thomas Jefferson's concubine. Yeah.

She also says that she is the daughter of a slave owner and owns a slave plantation. Okay. I think she did buy her family's land, which might have been previously a plantation. Maybe she means to say that she's like the, descended of Sally Hemings. She's not.

She's not. She's not. That would have come out. But needless to say, and what a lot of people are talking about, so if you followed the trajectory of Karen Hugar on Potomac, you know when she first came on, her wigs were not what they are now. Like Karen is, like,

she's come out and said she just had like a, I think she had a facelift or a necklift or something like that. Her wigs are on point. She looks bad. I saw it in person last week. She looks amazing. When she first came on, those wigs, there's a scene where she had to shift the wig. She just shifted.

It was sliding, and she had to shift the wig. In the footage of this, it's back to season one camp. So she was fucked up with the wig. But is it possibly that the wig, is it possible, should I say, that the wig itself was disheveled because of her drunken activities? I mean, from hitting the tree?

Because she crashed your car into a tree. Right. I would imagine that you would, If your wig is glued down, that shouldn't have them. So they glue the wig on? Lace front wigs are glued down. With,

yes. Now, I'm wearing a wig today. I thought they sew the wig in. That's a week. That's an extension. Okay. And you can.

You can have a full frontal where it's all sewn down a braids. Or you can have a lace front wig, you know, where you see the lace. That's glued down. So like, if I would,

like, my wig right now is being held on by a bandana. So that's, didn't feel like, gluing it down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hoaghan. Pretty much. Yeah. One quick move. Yeah. And the whole thing could come on. Give them a brother. Yeah, brother. One quick. Give them a yeah, brother. It ain't cute underneath. I have a hair appointment today. Okay. So, okay, so, but her wigs obviously weren't glued down. I don't know what this

was. Hmm. It was shifting. So it could have been glued. It could have been loose. You never seen somebody. You never seen a woman where the, you can see it's sliding a bit. Yeah, I sliding back a little bit. I get the wig situation. That's happened to me before. I didn't know that it was glued, though. I thought that it was some kind of way that it was like... There are various ways.

You can have it clip down. You can have it glued down, lace front. You can have it sewn in, which is like full frontal, like sewn in, like no hair's out. If you leave it out, that's where it's like the extensions, the weave, where your hair covers the tracks in your hair. There's so many different ways. Can have a half wig. You know when I wear my bomb? That's a half wig.

My hair's in shambles right now. Give us an update. So I'm in the shedding face, which means the hairs that were put in are now saw in the fallout as those follicles regrow. And the line that they brought it down to

is still there, but the old carnage of my hair is still... Let me see. It's called the ugly duckling face. Let me see it. Oh, this is perfect timing for you to be revealing the hair.

There's a guy with the good hair line. We're going to walk him right into the show. Where's a guy with the good hairline? I'm showing my hair transplant. Yeah. No, come on here. Come on here. Come on, come on.

Have a seat. Jule White just joined us. Yeah. Just walk right in. The timing couldn't be perfect as Van is revealing, giving us an update on the hairline. And in, and in walks a brother who's at least two years, my senior, I think, whose hairline is fucking amazing. everybody look great

Jalil White joins us on higher Learning today everybody giving up to Jolil Wynne. How you doing my man? Oh yeah, put it right there in the front. Put it on some, cover it up with ours. I read it. I had audio.

Oh, yeah, we're about to fuck you up. Yeah, we're going to have a nice conversation. Yeah. Now, actually, I say some about I miss me y'all. I say something about the book So the book was hilarious. It's better if you listen.

Why? Because I have, because I have, yeah, I never do audible. Like, I've never listened to a book because my attention span is better. I have to see it. But I listen. And it's better reading, I mean, listening to it. Put it right here in the front. Knock our books down.

So I get to know you better. I should didn't sell. All right. I should didn't sell. Put your little shit in the front. My publisher hit me up and was like, stop talking about the book. I love it. Yeah.

Julio White. What's up? My brother. What's going on, Kat? How are you doing? Happy holidays. First of all, everybody out there. Same to you.

Same to you. I'm serious. Y'all skin is glowing. Why are you talking about hair lines? Your skin is glowing. The skin matters, but I want my, I want my corners back. I like, I look at. Corners.

Yeah. See? See how he said corners? Have you been watching the progression of it? Because when he first, when he first revealed it, it was fantastic. But this is what he's called on the ugly ducking stage. The hair sheds. And then it comes back.

I don't think you should call attention to things that are not working when other things are working. The hat is wonderful. Your skin is glowing. Appreciate you know what I'm saying? The weight is down. I know about that journey. Oh, my God, yep.

I know about that journey. You know what's your sign? What's your astrological? Is it an earth sign? I was sad. Oh, you're a sage. Okay, okay, okay. You used to see me on my daily TMZ walks that I would take

in order to keep my steps up. That was when I was still hooping and stuff and I was in really good shape. And then the pandemic knocked me off. But I would see you riding your bike. Yeah. Yeah. We're not going to tell people your neighborhood,

but I would see you. you riding your bike and we will talk a little bit, man. When your book came out, I was really excited to read it because having interviewed you before and knowing a little bit about you, I know how your journey and everything that you've observed and witnessed shaped your worldview. Why did you want to share that with people? You know, it was just timing.

Stefan saved my life. Millennials are saving my life. I smile because. I would have never thought that that show would last as long as it did. My mom didn't even want to get a new car for the first four seasons of the show. And here we got 30 years later still talking about. It's historical context. Right.

But I had a fan at a professional fan. And that's what it takes to win in our business. You've got to have a professional fan at Simon & Schuster, who was like, man, your story needs to be told. He saw me on Talib Qauli and on his podcast. and he was just like the way you were, you know, you were so self-aware of certain things that were going on around you in the construct of the show. He was like, you got to share that and what's your real life.

So I had actually taken a bunch of notes that I'd kept on my computer for a book, perhaps, one day. So when I showed him the proposal, it was just like, let's go. And it was just, you know, that's the thing that you need to succeed and in all facets of media is that unanimous yes. And so I got the unanimous yes, and the millennials are here for it. And that's the part that just really makes me smile.

It really does. Millennials are back. We're back in styles. The kids love the kid. No, they do. Pandemic, who you're all ass, but you're back. You're back. You're back.

You're back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You say Stefan or Kel saved your life. What do you mean by that? Oh, I talk about it a little bit in the book. But I'm like, you know, I was very, I was very naive as a kid culturally. You know, I was just. Me too, though.

I just was culturally. You know, I didn't, I wasn't out there. Like, you know, you know, Kanye is so bold about I wanted to wear this outfit and I wanted to wear this shoe Kanye was going to make me feel this way I needed Jordans

I needed Sega Genesis I needed good grades to keep my mom off my back that was it that's what it was so you know Stefan definitely saved saved my life

because I didn't know it was coming and I didn't know how many black women out there needed to see something that was closer to me I didn't create it I've never taken credit for it our white executive producer

who happened to have been married to a black woman, you know, wrote that character and was like, yo, you need to play this character. And I was like,

Dave, he's kind of boring. He was like, really? You think so? Jay. I was like, all he does is

tell Carly's lost weight when he has it and he overcomplomplementing. I'm like, is that a character? You know, again, I go through a lot of different steps

to become my character. So I'm like, that's it, just two beats and just walk around like on baby face a little bit. I'm like, all right,

cool. But I hit that door. and people just saw me so differently. And I didn't get the magnitude of that to answer your question. So anytime I said something saved my life, I just say I'm like, and even millennials where it was like, that generation, the show hit with incendication, the biggest. I see the financials of it, the biggest.

So to have people that are still in their 30s, that are, you know, in young 30s too, that is just like, oh, Mr. White, oh, Mr. White, you can call me Mr. White. You can call me Jay Stel. You know what I'm just? But it's just like, I'm just so grateful. I'm crazy, great,

because we couldn't have thought that it would last long, the legacy of it. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Trimphia is administered as injections under the skin

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Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See terms at fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash herms. When you say, when you talk about like, because when you read the book, right? And I think particularly with some of the stuff that has went viral lately and we'll talk about your conversation that went viral just a second. We will. But you know what I think, but you know what the thing that like, that like I get from what you're reading the book is to a lot of black kids that I know, that is a very typical black upbringing. To be honest with you.

I think sometimes. And I agree. Yeah. So when you say that you weren't, no, you loved basketball. You had parents who I remember my mom. wanted me to take a girl out to her little debut thing and stuff. When now I was in the 12th grade. I did that.

But all of that stuff. So do you think, Jack and Jill? We're in Jack and Jill? Yes. That's a different part of black culture that perhaps maybe isn't talked about enough. Talked about the media, but it's definitely black culture. Do you think that maybe you thought that you weren't a part of a cultural movement because you didn't see it? So look, you don't need to put it off.

One, I was having a conversation in Delaware for a book signing, and more black people showed up than I even imagined. It was unbelievable. And it was really a lesson that I had to learn also that it's not easy to trend or go on topic for positive reasons in this world anymore. It's not. So I don't want to say I misspoke, but I could have worded things better. if I had known I was speaking on a world stage and not just a small room in Delaware. I shouldn't invoke the word hood

because when you say the word hood, it makes certain people feel like you're demeaning them. And that's not what I meant at all. I conflated a couple of ideas. There's a lot of good in hood. You go to the hood for a better barber experience, you go to the hood for better food,

you go to the hood for better basketball, a lot. For families, for communities, for all of that. Exactly. And I shouldn't have generalized. Those are the two mistakes I made in that, were in that remark.

What do you want to clarify about what it was at you? There are, there's two types of black shows that exist. And I actually called Felicia Henderson because I always want brothers and sisters to know

that I don't, I don't even play in divisive politics. I've never done that. There's no history of that with me. So if I'm called a task to clarify, I will do so. I called Felicia Henderson, who was one of our early writers on Family Matters,

she went on to create Soul Food, she's a PhD and all of this stuff now. And I'm like, Felicia, what can I say to people that would help them understand at least, you know, more about what we really deal with behind the scenes in the creation of these shows? She said, well, there's two types of black shows. One is a black dame show

that from its inception and development is meant to depict characters, stories that are steeped in the black experience from the black POV. Then there is a black cast show, which from its inception is designed to appeal to middle America, mainstream America, and for very special episodes,

they will address cultural issues. Needless to say, we were the latter. Internally, as a black community, we tend to give more props and to the one that is the black themed show that is from exclusively RPOV. It's all about us. It's so intrinsic.

So that's another thing about Hood is that for me, I didn't see it as a put-down. I'm sorry if I did anybody who was offended because hood to me means intrinsically people of color to the degree that only we know what's going on. That's the way I meant it. And ultimately, you need everybody on the entire spectrum of blackness.

to push the agenda of creating more program. So when one doesn't, you don't necessarily identify with one, now I just jump into a quick story for you, and I'll wrap it up, but I think you'll appreciate it. I mean, it's hard to hide who it was, so I'll go ahead and say it, but Penny, forgive me. But it was like, you know, I was really close with Penny Hardaway growing up,

and he and I were passionate about basketball, video games, everything, TV shows. And I remember he and I having a very spirited debate, about, you know, one of the best black shows on TV back in the day. And he said, and I said, The Hux was.

I said, hands down, it's the greatest black family show there is. He was like, nah. I'm like, dude, how can you even say that? He was like, good times. I'm like, dude, how can you even say that? And he was just like, and he was like,

nah, that shit wasn't real. Good times was hood. They kept it real. That shit wasn't real. So, him being the bigger star at the time especially physically you know

actually it would be able bottom line we're in a room debating this with guys I lose that argument quick because it's like yeah

no no good times was hood they kept it real they kept it real they kept it real they kept it real and I think when I answered

that question in Delaware I think subconsciously I was still in that argument in that room in that room because he just dismissed

everything that we were We just sat here and talked about Jack and Jill, blacks in Martha's Vineyard at Oak Bluffs, you know, your mom and dad dancing in the living room together to some jazz. My parents actually did that. That wasn't just Clipp and Claire. But because that wasn't his experience that he could identify with, he was like, he was he was he was hell of dismissive. Now, ultimately for me, I'm like, well, guess what?

The experience that you're not necessarily identifying with, it actually trashed. traveled the world better. And it actually helped people who never see us in foreign lands go, oh, wow, I never knew this about black people and how closely related we actually

are. Yeah. Well, that's what I find interesting. Like, I have a very similar growing up experience. I would say the Cosby's as well, or the Huxby Show, the Huxby. You notice I say Huxbables now? Because, again, it's triggering. If you say that name, all of it's like, it's take take it. It is. And I would say that it was the best because I related, it was so much to my reality.

That's what I grew up on. But I would think that you would have had, because I listened to the clip, and I was like, oh, it sounded like you were bitter at how your show had aged versus other shows. Then I read or listen, I listened to the book. And I hear you talk about other shows and other actors on the shows, your peers,

and you're super complimentary. But I would think sitting in front of that audience and you said you were surprised at how many black people were there, that you would see that your show, and you as a character were so well received and still resonate with black people. So the response still was like to look out into the room and see that,

them come for you and for what you represent. I would think it would have spoken for 54 minutes. That's 30 seconds out of 54 minutes. It's easy to, you know, have said something that you shouldn't. That was even a mental tangent. I just told you. I think in my mind I mentally went back to that place of Penny saying, you know, nah, that's the better show.

But it's like, but nah, I'm sitting here right now. So is it? And it's not about what's better. It all belongs. I just want everybody to understand where you fall on the spectrum. It will determine how much money you earn. It will determine, help determine what your next, you know, opportunity is. But it all belongs.

So I just love the fact that you even said you enjoyed listening to the book. I did. And you didn't take away any of that clickbait nonsense that we have to deal with now. At first I did. She was mad. And I was mad. And I'm not even mad at that. Like, even if somebody.

said, but like, I was upset. I've seen certain comments that hit me with like, I was really pissed you little white. And he had, what nerve of him to say, X, Y, and Z. But then I went and listen to the book. Yeah, you guys should listen to read.

And that is the best compliment and the best, I will apologize, anybody forgets him to do that. I will say this, that it's important that people know a little bit about, and we're doing a podcast here that I'm hosting about the history of black television. It's important that people know.

Because even on the set, of good times. There were internal battles about the portrayal of characters on screen. Estarole and John Amos were in a push-pool about the JJ character

and what they thought the JJ character meant and what it said about black people and the social commentary that they wanted infused into good times. The Jefferson's was almost

a response to good times in a way to show a more well-to-do black family on the Upper East Side. Obviously, it's a spinoff of all in the family. So when you look at these things, how we're portrayed and the light in which we are portrayed is just a part of our cultural struggle in America.

But I don't think that it should be a struggle within us. And I'll tell you why, because it's all part of a black cultural diasporic experience, the well-to-do. I make fun of racial all the time. I'm from South Baton Rouge, Louisiana, right? Don't let him do you. I make fun of a while to ask you. But the reality is...

I'm seeing nothing but authenticity over here. Without a doubt, that's a niggison right there. But, I mean, for real. That's what we're doing. If the working class family from South Baton Rouge is black, the district judge, the U.S. District Judge family is black, we all black. I will...

So I understand what you're saying. I want to... I want to ask you this, though, the shows that you are talking about when you were saying, when you're comparing shows as far as family matters in the 90s, right? When you were saying, we do it a little bit better here. We do. Where do you put family matters? Oh, God. Where do you rank it with all of the, I'm talking about with what Will and them we're doing.

And the story in the book about Will giving you the 40 bands to come on the show, that's in there. Ashley, said, the, my wife and kids, that's later on, though. but like Thea lasted one season. Just all of the family shows that existed in the 90s. I mean, this is what we do. Rock all of those places. Now listen, again, I'm getting trouble generalizing, but this is what we do is black folks.

We always have to be like, who's better? Is it Kobe? Is it Michael? Is it whatever? And I'm like, and we ran. We love a top five. You know, this is what we do. So if we play in that, people can't get offended in that.

That's just barbershop beauty salon talk. It's what it is. For me, it hurts my heart because of what's happened to it. But Rachel and I are on the same page. Nothing had the impact that the Huxibles had on this country. It was the big show in America. They had Super Bowl-level viewership. People were racing home to be in their seats every night at 8 o'clock.

There is no friend's phenomenon. even NBC wanting to protect 8 o'clock at Thursday night if it wasn't for what the Huxables had done in the prior decade. So to me that's number one. Now after that, it's all opinion and it's just about what you identify with. So after that, for my, for my chase, number two was Sanford's Son. Because Sanford and Son got to do something that we're never going to get to do again in television.

They roasted each other. literally people came in the door to just get roasted. That was the whole point. To get roasted and then turn around and leave with your tail between the legs. We're not going to see that in sitcom or half hour comedy too much anymore because now we have the tools technologically for people who felt offended by that roast to say, I don't want to hear that. That hurt my feelings at home.

It's like, wasn't nobody talking to you. So what? Is that good or bad for TV? That's where we are. I think it's terrible. but even though I think it's terrible I'm going to move with the times and I'm going to be sensitive and say there's another way to entertain

people all right it is what it is it's almost kind of like if you can't sell a looney tunes anymore because that's too violent for children you can't drop an anvil on another animal's head but these are talking animals they're even doing it got it that's too violent for children that's a classic we're going to leave that in the past

so for me it was Sanford but it's just personal three Jefferson's yeah Jeffersons, again, they just, they rep that other side, right? Both kind of. Yeah, it was like, so I got some money, but I'm still in there work. Yeah, yeah.

You can say it were, right? And they did it. You can say niggas, okay. And they get in for some, man, I don't want no more smoke, dog. You don't know. You can say niggas, exactly. Apparently you can say it and I can't, so, you know, it didn't want to. And he lasts when I say.

You know what I'm saying? My black guard, for the last two weeks, my black card got clipped. Like, I, like, I never, like, I don't know. You can get it back. You can get it back here. Like I never hoop against anybody. So I would say to Jefferson's for number three for me.

Number four, I'm actually saying live in color. Yeah. Because again, I look at, I'm looking at things that change the space globally for us. In living color disrupted the Super Bowl, B. Yeah. they caused the Super Bowl to get so low ratings in their second half that that's why we now have Rihanna and everybody in their mom before me before the Super Bowl didn't even care they they whirled out any old body

you know strum their guitar but they stole such a such a large part of their audience I'll never forget that yeah I was in Candace Cameron's house and she was having a Super Bowl party and we everybody switched in Libby Color and nobody went back to the game like remember that Libby Color did a Super Bowl halftime shit It was a lot. No. They did a live show. I was too young for that.

She was too young. She was too young. She was in Brianna. I wasn't allowed to watch. I wasn't around to watch Living Color until college. I think we're somewhere around. I don't even want to say it. But I think we're somewhere around six or seven in charge of the all time.

We're definitely top ten. It's not even a question because of how well we traveled overseas in other different countries. Yeah, for sure. Read as we enjoyed your book. Took it and enjoyed it. different ways. But as much as I enjoyed it, there were a lot of sad moments. And the book, like, I felt sad for you, like, going back in time. What made you feel most sad about what? Okay. First off, just like hearing the 90s and growing up

and, like, you sharing space. I mean, Jay-Z. I'm like, I almost hesitate to say in Jay-Z just now. Jay-Z or, like, telling stories about Penny Hardaway, who had such a crush on when I was a kid. Of course. Like, just hearing, like, how you move through L.A. and Hollywood and just, and your affinity to so many different stars that I grew up watching, it was just really cool. But then to hear how maybe you felt navigating the space, at times I wondered, you know, did you feel like you couldn't be yourself? Did you feel like you had to be Stefan or Kel?

Like, those moments, I felt sad for you. Yeah, well, I'll let you answer that first and then I have a follow-up question. No, give me a follow. I want the whole thing. You were wrong. question was, what advice, like as I was listening to how you just like navigate throughout the book, like how you talk about how you grew up and then how it was for you, transitioning from family matters on, it made me think of what advice do you have for other child actors, maybe in the past

or even present, who may feel like they are being typecast. So it's wild because the book has kind of ended up becoming like a manual for the child actor experience. And, you know, that's not necessarily what I intended for it to be, but it just, it's kind of ended up, ended up being that. Please don't feel sorry for me as much. You know, there was, there's, there's a part of. Be rich. There's a part.

Stop it, man. In the moment I did, in the, as you were telling the story, that's not everything. That's not everything, Doug. That's not everything. And I love this. I love this, she felt it because if I'm writing something that is not making you feel anything,

that I'm not missing the point. I did make you feel something, even if it was sadness. In the 90s, life was just different. Like, it wasn't, historically, it hasn't been safe to be intelligent or to be articulate. You know what I'm saying?

Like, those are backhanded compliments to say somebody's articulate. And I'm sure you got plenty of that. You know, I'm sure growing up like, you know, I'm feeling you now, and I'm feeling an authentic black woman. But then there's a certain side of you also where I'm like,

you might be threatening to another type of system. You know what I'm saying? And it's like, bullying was more accepted back then. And if you survived it, you can look back on it with laughter and lightheartedness. Verbly, it was more accepted. Physically, it was more accepted. I mean, I have a whole bullying situation that went down that in the age of camera phones, if what had happened to me in middle school happened today, oh, my gosh.

which people talking about viral, that would have been a whole mess, right? But I just feel so grateful, I guess what I'm saying, is having survived the era and survived my parents' mistakes because they did their best with what they knew. And my mom actually manifested everything for me

that she could envision for me. And that took me becoming a grown man and realized, you can't even see what I did right there. You can't even see what it is I want for myself. Right. Like, my baby's going to college and Warner Brothers is going to pay pay for it. It's like that was that was kind of everything. You know how a woman will get locked in on one thing. It's like, but mom, I got all these other things. Nope, you're going to school. She was just

locked in on that. So I just feel happy that I survived my parents' mistakes because they were so well-intentioned. And I say they're a Hall of Fame parents because if you do anything three out of ten that puts you in a Hall of Fame in the MLB. And that's how I grade them. You know, so don't feel sorry for me. But the advice that I give to other people is, you know, it's in the book all throughout. Every single story has a lesson. If you stop and pause and be like, okay, how can I apply that to my life?

Yeah, I don't know. Does that answer you a question? Yeah, I think it was just like from the outside looking in, how I may have perceived you before listening to the book, it was, you know, Van said, don't feel sorry for him. He's rich. You come from a hit show. You're surrounded by all these stars. You're in these big popular places.

And to know that, like, you know, it wasn't as easy at times to navigate, I think, is what resonated with me. It's like, oh, you know, things aren't as always as they seem. Yeah, apart from money, it's always going to be a reality. Even rich folks. You know what I mean, miserable rich folks? I don't know. Yes.

You know what I'm saying? So it's like, I mean, Ben has to say that because that's a good retort. But it's just say the reality is it's like, no, I'm like, you know, I am what you see. And there were certain naivetase that saved me, you know, Penny didn't drink. I didn't drink. That reinforced that I would not drink. Back in the 90s, the LAPD hunted your hands if you were black and driving a nice car. Like, that was reason alone to pull you over.

Oh, Nick row, nice car, tinted windows. Oh, let me pull you over this, 10, I have a conversation with you. I got pulled over multiple times driving around UCLA in my vehicles. And lucky for me because I didn't drink because of value that penny enforced in me. And I'm, you know what I'm saying? I'm like, in my mind, I was an athlete just like him. You know what I'm saying? So in the book, I will say the names named in the book.

Right. Their names named in the book. And I read it. And when I read it, I was wondering if, so you tell us. three stories, one about somebody I know. We know. We know. Bianca. Please don't do that.

We have to. We have to. We have to. We have to. Can I admit no bad. It's a funny story. I make fun of myself more than her. But let me ask you.

But here's the thing. I had a three-by-five index card of it, itinerary about back pocket, and she never knew about that was our, that what we were going to do for the day. But look, so there are three stories and I want to take a through thine through these. One is about Bianca. One is about Daphne Dupéry. That went out there.

You play with that one, though. That, even saying the name, Daphne Dupé, as soon as he said the name, an image popped in my hand like that. A different level, I was a ball of yarn to her.

Right. And then, she was Jones. So, so three different black ladies are mentioned in the book. Oh, and mind you, I had no physical content.

with any with any of them. Okay. Not by accident. I will say this, that the stories in the book, and then there's another one where you guys got to go in the book and read the Mr. Child's story. But the stories of these three ladies in the book. They took our chicks, duh.

Y'all, y'all got to read the Mr. Child story. The through line through these stories is these were women that you had this intense attraction to black women, that you were trying to impress. Yeah. Rashida, not so much because she just, you read that story, she just kind of plagued you, right? Just being, but the kids, she was. Yeah, I just, I didn't know that, I didn't know that that could happen to me.

Yeah. I knew that existed, but it was like, I was like, but at this point, I'm kind of living a fairytale life, and it was like, oh, man, this girl is like. For you guys don't know, he's at Buckley. He's trying to, he tries to holl at Rashida Jones. He passes her a note. Rashida Jones goes. I didn't pass it just any note. Any note.

The note said, call me. It was folded. up as a finger-flip football. Right. As a note says, call me. Straight out of a movie. She opens the note.

I took time to go and fold this finger-flick football. She opens the note. You can play with this on your own time. And she goes, oh, no, he didn't in front of everybody. Destructive, if you 16, 17. Yeah.

Particularly with Bianca and Daphne, it didn't, the things didn't, the interactions didn't go your way. And what you extrapolated from that was that they wanted something more from you, that Bianca maybe was trying to get a career leg up or that Daphne herself. Which one you want to get off first?

We got to stay, we can't convolut. Okay. I learned. I learned my lesson from Delaware. Let's talk about, let's talk about Bianca. Like, and I'll just be honest with you. And Bianca Lawson is a friend, right?

Um, she's not tripping, right? You're like, she's a kid. But do you think you were fair to her? Because you assuming that she wasn't fucking with you because she wanted a leg up in her career is kind of crazy Jilil, because her father Her father was there when I got the nothing. I know is a pretty well-known TV star.

My father was, hey, Richard was a class act. I'm a dad now. I was like Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I got the number. Because that's when you had to get the number. He had to be like, I say to the book. I said you had to like. He did the whole thing. We didn't all done it before. Hey, uh, 2-25, 1-5-15-1-200.

Hey, bro, shut up, shut up, dog. I got to remember the number. I got to remember the number. We didn't all done it before if you grew up. in the 90s. But it seems like you, it seems like when you read the book that there was a perception that you had about women

based upon some of the interactions that you had had. And you actually in the book one time actually say that you didn't feel like you were cool enough for black girls. We'll separate those questions. Separate those questions. We're doing the Delaware thing.

You're trying to get a quote on me. I never said I'm not cool enough of black women. Are you kidding me? No, no, thank you. Protect me, girl. No, I can't on this one. because I have quick. You come back behind me what, but we got to do one at time.

One at time. One at time. One at time. What in time. I love it. First of all, I love the fact that you guys weren't bored. Okay?

That was my, that was my, that was my biggest fear of writing the book. Is that I'm like, oh, man, people are going to be bored? They weren't bored at all. They weren't bored at all.

You don't be bored. Nigger, it's one time in the book where you, where you point out, and this is a good book telling right here. I'm going to shut up after this. It's one time in a book where he goes, these guys are pointing out this guy, and they're saying he's going to be the future of the network

and he's going to bring the network to the new heights. And they're talking about Bob Iger. And like if you have shit like that in the book, that's the type of shit that gets me. All right. So I wrote the book for a thinking person. I didn't write the book as any kind of tabloidial. Like, you know, oh, I want to shit on all these people.

So I knew who I mentioned, even as females. And what I was most proud of is this story is how much that I felt like I learned about myself and perhaps even the other person. but there was no physical contact. And those stories mean a lot to me. Like, I know she's your girl now until I say, what's up? Like, my experience with Bianca was incredible when I look back on it. And it makes me smile and laugh like a giddy kid, almost again,

because she was just the most beautiful girl I'd ever seen where it was like she just, all I cared about was basketball at work, basketball at work. And here I am in my little Armani tucks walking around after I get my win. And this girl just like, just, just. This makes me like just tongue-tied. And what I regret about it was, and I needed Darius, because Darius was just my co-star. You know, Darius was always so much older than me.

And when it came to just dealing with women, I had no sisters, I had no, I was an only child, you know, so you're going to laugh at me again and I'll give the world license to laugh at me. My perception of pursuing women came from romantic comments. and Jack and Jill. I'm supposed to pull up. You know how much my mother bugs me to this day?

Are you opening her car door? Are you pulling out her chair? That's good. And I'm like, Mama, they don't care about that stuff. Well, we do. Like, again, separate. We'll go back to that. Maybe I'll come up for a separate.

Okay. But I'm like, those aren't the determinants at all, right? I regretted being so immature that I, I couldn't read subtext in some of her questions. I didn't even see that she wanted to act. I didn't even understand that she wanted to act. I just thought she was accompanied her father and she was in school. So even when she asked me, you know, what are you going to do with the shows over?

I was like, oh, I'm going to college. Like, and I could tell it was like that was almost a deflating answer. It's almost kind of like when you're on a red carpet and somebody says, so what do you have going on next? And you ain't got nothing to say. Right? It was like, oh, great. Oh, we've got another bigger star right behind you, right?

And it was like, that's the way I felt in the moment. So when I did see her on TV, I'm like, oh, man, she's good, too. Like, oh, I missed the boat. I missed the boat. When you said you missed the boat, what do you mean? Because I'm saying, I'm saying if she had thought that I was taking her own ambitions more seriously, and she was actually deserving of those ambitions. Maybe she would have seen me differently

and not some just self-centered, spoiled child actor. That's all. But when you're a teenager, you only see what you want. It comes across like you, Eureka, it hit you one day that she wanted to use you to get ahead in their career. So I'm sorry if it came across that way, but it was more, I wanted you to enjoy

the stupidity of the 90s. I wanted you to enjoy, you know, me needing Darius to try. drive me because I didn't have a nice enough car to even take these girls out and I couldn't drive. The big ass box of popcorn. You know, the way he bad boy his way

into the driver's seat of the whole situation. Ordering alcohol without getting freaking checked but, you know, carding. Like to me, what I see that as an episode of television. That's like, oh, if that guy turned into an episode of accurate television, are you telling me you

wouldn't enjoy it? I understand that. I understand that. But you got answer that. Would you, if that were an episode of television, the way it was written, on a scale of one to ten and turn to coming of age stories, would you enjoy? Sure, I would enjoy. But you know what the funny thing is? When I'm reading that with the whole Darius thing, I know what Darius is doing from the beginning. Yeah, but you do. Yes. But the world does it. Yeah. Why, you say you were writing a book and you didn't want, you weren't like doing it for the headlines or like tabloidy and everything. But why name them? Because like even when we

wrote our books, there were certain names. I remember thinking, do I name this? do I not? No, I don't want to bring it. I want to talk about the meaning behind it. So that's what. It was just that simple. The story I once, and I had the choice because there's certain people who are not,

or, you know, the names were changed. Yeah. But the stories weren't sexual. And I didn't feel like I was exploiting them as women to speak on anything that happened sexually. Okay. Now, now this is where I have a little issue with it. And this is what something that Van was alluding to.

Come on with it. Come on. See, this is the part of a black woman that I enjoy. Come on, come on. I wish we had treats. I wish there was food on the table. You were talking about how your mom raised you, and you kind of were just alluding to it. Your mom told you to open car doors. Your mom told you to push in chairs.

And you were saying that when your mom told you to do these things, it didn't make you attractive to an attractive teen black girl. Yeah, no, you, you, you, I took a little, but that was like a generalization that I took offense to. Like, as we've been saying this whole time, we've been talking about. about LA. But you didn't say LA. So I would love for you to clarify because I read that and I know if I'm like talking to other people, I read it in general, I'm like, man, like that's such a generalization because it makes it seem like attractive black girls might not be into a gentleman.

And it didn't seem fair. So once again, that's how I got in trouble with in Delaware. And it's important for us to teach other people, not teach, but share with other people. This is when you get in trouble. when you generalize any statement, try to be as specific as you possibly can. All right. But in L.A.,

we are not going to ignore that there was a giant period when you were just an embryo and you were not here yet. Okay? Where it was, the bad boys were up. Up big.

There was a certain aesthetic that, you know, just like he said, he knew what Darius was doing, that Darius might not have been, you know, He might not have had the image of a rapper, but believe me, in private quarters,

Darius knew how to move. And so I felt like my mom, my mom conditioned me to be a bit of a pushover. And even when I look at her relationship with my father and things that they went through, my dad's a strong alpha dude. but there may have been times in their marriage where he felt run over. And that's something that I had to unlearn.

I felt like as a man where it's okay, how do I be a gentleman? Because that's actually my nature. I love taking a woman out to eat. I love just rubbing a woman's feet while I'm watching TV. But how do I do these things? and I'm not taking advantage of or I'm seen up as just a pushover. And that's what I think I was going through at that stage

of trying to figure out. I'm trying to balance that. And listen, I'm being real. The East West rap, the cool dudes back there were pot, trench, everything, poetic justice. That's what was popping. And so the imagery has changed now.

So in this day and age, yeah, a woman of any kind would be a fool to dismiss a guy because he wore glasses. What? You'd be a fool to do that. But back then, that's the thing that I enjoy so much about the 90s

and why I am busting my butt to clarify and tell more stories from the 90s because I think that I'm capable of doing them in a way that are number one going to be entertaining. It's not going to bore you. And number two, going to be unbiased. Like, you got a problem?

Put it on table. Let's talk about it. Do you think that your experience with women in the 90s, Black women in the 90s, black women in LA in the 90s, had any lasting effects on your perception of black women into your 20s or 30s or 40s? No, because I traveled.

I travel. Like, my passport stand. Like, I'm like, I'd have been all around South America. I'd have been all around Europe. When I talk about any experience that I had with black women, I need people to really focus on the fact that I am from L.A. Like, I am from L.A. So much that when Spike Lee Roots for the Knicks on the court, it offends me.

Like, I'm like, that's how LA I'm from. So, you know, we have a different culture of women out here, period. What does that mean? Just a lot more cosmopolin and a lot more opinionated, a lot more like, hey, sometimes, you know, an ambition to be the star, to be the main character. My daughter talks about that. She's, oh, she got to be the main character, you know. She gets, these are the terms from her generation.

Whereas, you know, in Baton Rouge or in South Carolina or Houston, you want me to a completely different kind of system. and I live in Los Angeles you know there's a large part of love man that is geography and people got to understand that if I put you in Australia long enough dog with that hat yeah okay but let me tell you something

can I take your question a step further sure go are you okay and I say this because of what the question I just asked you about the what I just read what Van was saying and then what he just asked and I can say this having been married

to somebody outside of my race do you feel like you found that because of what you went through maybe in the 90s and certain things with the perception of black women in L.A. to be more specific, that you found non-black women to be more receptive to you, which has led to some of the choices that you made. I do. Okay, can you explain that further? And I'm married outside of my race. I don't want to, the number one thing that I don't think that I always want to make clear is that my appreciation for black women and who I ultimately ended up with as wife,

those things can be mutually exclusive. I agree. I don't know why they can't. You know, it's, man, man, I gotta be careful, man. Because I'm like, I like to tell things,

I like to answer your question sometimes in funny stories. My job, to me, is always, always entertain people because they actually appreciate maybe the point of view better that way, right? I remember I was playing basketball

and these two girls came in, two ladies came in, black girls. And it was like, one of them was just banging. And I knew her friend. So I'm like, oh, man. So I go over to my boy. And I'm like, yo, what's I was like with Aaron's friend? And he was like, hey, you know, do your thing. So you know what happens when you start hooping in front of girls.

Now you're showing off. I'm throwing no look passes that I don't even need to be no look. Deep threes. Like you lock in the fuck up. We noticed that way. I'm playing Hela D. And we're locking up. And we know exactly what you're doing.

Like, look at him. I'm playing Hela D. The shirts off, you know, that I'm glisting. And I'm winning. I'm running cats. I'm like, run it back. Right. Who's the next five?

Right. I'm feeling myself. But I'm, you know, I'm smitten with old girl off to the side. So when we're done, we're done hooping, I knew one of the girls. So I went up to her final. I was like, yo, what's up with your girl? She's like, I, you like, I'm like my girl. And I was just like, yeah, what's up with your girl?

with your girl. She's like, okay, I see you like my girl. So I go back over to my boy and I was like, yo, Aaron is hating. Like I just straight up asked her about it and I was like, whatever. He was like, yeah, I think that's her girl. And I like, dude, why is everybody hating on me today? Like, I just want a proper introduction. Just say, oh, this is Jal. We all know each other. She's like, Jay, that's her girl. Oh. Oh, okay. So just as long as it took for y'all to get it. That's how long it took for me to get it. And what I'm saying is, that life has been changing in a major way over these last 30 years, especially in Los Angeles. And I think even faster in Los Angeles culturally, in places where things like that are not

so accepted. And those were two black women. And that was one of them. I was really, really feeling. And I don't get to be offended by that. I get to be educated. So if you find somebody in Los Angeles who has some going on for themselves and your character values align and they give a damn about you. Maybe I'm just speaking from an older man's perspective, but you hold on to that. No matter what race, color, creed. Bingo. Okay.

But back to the crux of the question was, in what way did you feel that white women were more acceptable. No, I'm not saying that. And I will not allow you to accepting. Receptive to you. And I won't even allow you to say white women. I won't. Like, I watched Kobe Bryant go to Mama Gaia and there was all Latin

girls there because that's what he was going towards. But it wasn't like he didn't date Brandy first and he didn't date all these other black girls first. I don't get to ask him, why did you end up in Mama Gaia with all the Latin girls and it went that way. Something in his brain was

was like, okay, was going that way. But it was never, ever, ever about the aesthetic, though. And I'm like, I just, I won't allow it to even go there. Like, that's the part where it's like, this is a beautiful black woman. I don't know what she's into. I'm talking about Rachel sitting right here for people. And I'm like, I don't know what she's into. I've come home to live.

If you decide. Come home. But it's like when you, I don't, when you meet somebody, you project onto them. everything you want them to be. And then they start to become who they are. Part of the reason I ask is because of what we're talking about in the book, but also because I married somebody outside of my race and that the world met me on a white show,

but The Bachelor, I went on to, the Bachelor was White, and the Bachelorette and I choose somebody who's not black. I mean, Colombian, but white, white. White. And so that's how the world met me. Yeah, but it is what it looks like. It's what it looks like. But that's how the world met me.

So they assume that that's all I'm into, not knowing, to your point, when you're talking about Kobe and who he's dated before, they just see that. So that's why I was specifically asking you that as well, because that is who we've really seen, at least for the last, I don't remember the 90s and if you were publicly dating people,

but that's what people have seen. I got tired of pursuing anybody, quite frankly, who would treat you like an option, anyone. I don't care what color you were. like you just treat you like an option. It was just like, you know, ultimately, you have to mature to the point where you can see the people

who are interested in you. And it was in my current situation, like, it makes me smile because I finally recognized a girl who would never have said anything to me would not have opened her mouth at all. If I hadn't just been clever enough to peep how she was looking at somebody else

and that person was dealing with me and then started doing my research. And I just, I enjoyed what that felt like to know definitively, oh, you, you like me. Like, you're digging me, you're feeling me. You know, as opposed to the, the shoot your shot perspective. Like, shoot your shot is fun in your 20s.

It's cool. But you could also be inviting the worst thing character-wise there is right in the front door because you determine to shoot your shot and catch it. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer, unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner.

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Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. You know it's funny, I thought about something when I was reading the book. I thought about my relationship with my dad and my dad would give me quips and these quips are not politically correct at all. I come to my dad like, because, you know, I'm a kid.

It's Star Wars, it's all of this stuff. But I'm also hooping and playing ball and I got my crew. I read the book and I was like, Jalil needed a crew. Oh, yeah. Like, Jililil needed a crew. I didn't get that until I got Penny.

That's why. Like, Jalululahs. Because if I was siblings. I was the nerd in my crew, but I had enough in common with them to where I never felt like the outcast in my crew. Remember, I'm having trouble, I'm going up, whatever I'm talking about girls I like.

My daddy looks at me, he goes, son. And remember he's talking to a 14-year-old. He goes, if a woman wants to fuck you, you have to talk her out of it, not into it. Ooh, that's your quote. And damn. That's good. And I was like, that landed.

And I was like, Oh, so that means give yourself. Like, be you. It's either up or is down. It's either in or is out. So be who you are. I told the story differently. I sanitized it.

You know, I'm like, I just like Penny told the story when Penny told me to sit my ass down somewhere. I want to ask you something else. You were never number one on the call sheet on family matters? No, never. But I get that.

I don't. Egos. See this, too. This too. It's not, but wait a second. It's similar to what you were talking about about JJ, not comparing the characters, but just saying people were upset on his cast at the attention that he was getting.

I would imagine you had to play into some of that with the call sheet. But my question about that is specifically comes back to a call sheet. one. Reading the book, what you read is just how green your parents were to the business and how green you guys were to the business. And we have conversations about racism in the business, about sexism in the business, about all different types of discrimination. And there always comes a question to where do you think that there is, because you compare yourself to some of your other contemporaries on the TGIF or just other people that knew how to negotiate? As black people that are performers or that are on this side of it,

do you think sometimes that our business naivete is why we don't get the, is it straight racism or is that we don't know enough that we need to know to go in and negotiate and ask for things and get for things? Like because when I watched, I watched the sick, there's a story in the book where, the holdout. DeLille got in trouble with his parents. And the network,

so his parents said you can't do the show. And so because his parents said that he couldn't do the show, they faked a sick day, which is in the business, everybody knows, a sick out means I'm not coming to work because I don't like my contract. And because of that,

you guys got to figure something out. And the network was on y'all nuts, the whole day. But y'all didn't even realize. As a kid, I was loving it. Because I was getting stupid stuff. I was getting kids. Yeah, yeah.

They didn't even realize that was a thing. And gifts certificates. So how much of it is, and it both, it all comes from a system of white supremacy, but how much of it is just straight up racism? And how much of it is that, and a lot of times we still don't know the worth of what we're trying to negotiate and ask for?

Yeah, no. I mean, great question. Again, how do I not meander with the question? Well, I certainly meandered asking it. I can't. I ain't doing it. No more meandering for me. You know what?

You have to find a careful balance between knowing your value and not overvaluing yourself. So I think it's more about figuring out how to walk in your path. I said it earlier here. My mom manifested everything for me that she could indeed. vision. So everything she missed, she couldn't envision. I don't think it had anything to do with white supremacy or anything like that because the leverage was there if she had felt differently about herself and about what her son deserved to push the boundaries a lot further, right?

But I will say some of my examples of leverage were white, McCulley Culkin. Some of my examples of leverage were black, the cast of New York undercover. Yeah. Right. Both of those circumstances played a lot into how I chose to see myself in all of this. Explain that to people because the New York undercover people got fucked over. Oh yeah. So you can explain it better. So what happened was, I mean, the McCullough of token situation is obviously McCulloughlin. He became the highest paid child star of all time. But resentfully. Resentfully. Because they don't, again, they don't like to break business model thresholds for people that are outside of the box of who they feel aesthetically deserving. Why is a child bending me over for all of this money? I rue the day.

That was a sentiment about paying McCullin. In the case of the New York undercover cast, and if you were watching New York undercover while it was on, there's this distinct memory of the show being so culturally relevant and such a big fucking deal and then like that the original cast evaporating and people going wait what happened in New York undercover and that was because

the two leads of the show wanted to hold out for more money Dick Wolf who made the show told them take it or fucking leave it one guy took it the other guy left it. I don't even know if it was his choice that the other guy left it.

Right. And matter of fact the way I understood it they discovered that Michael DeLorento's character was going to be killed at table reading like it was it was designed to be a message like we're tired of talking about this we're tired of even going on there's not going to be any back and forth

he's gone do you still want your job that's the way it was framed to me and what people don't understand is they're from you know there's a business side of things that was never meant to be shared like this. This is all new technology and everything, right? So I would sound crazy having these kind of interviews in 1997

with the Hollywood Reporter or the Variety. That's like going to the government to do the interview, right? Right? So, yeah, like it, that resonated across the whole town. And ultimately, Dick Wolf had bigger shows called Law & Order. and New York undercover for him on a business level was fulfilling a request. Hey, Dick, this is Fox.

What's going on, man? What's going on, Dick? Check this out. We get our ass kicked on Thursday night by this must-see TV. We're lined up that NBC has. We don't even know what the heck the program opposite this shit

because the whole nation is watching friends and, you know, when Dieto commercials over there, and they're killing it. So we're thinking about going the urban direction. That's how they talk. Oh, we're talking about going to urban direction. All right, well, what's up? Can you give us like a cop show, but like make it hip hop.

Like, can you use like, you know, hip hop music because that's really resonating with with black people right now? I don't know, man. I got two other shows. I'm like, I'm busy. Come on, dick, come on, do us a solid. All right, all right, all right. How much you're going to pay me? All right, we'll run you this and much money. All right, cool, done. Show goes on and becomes a huge hit within outward community. Now those dudes couldn't walk five feet in our community. Okay? That, in hindsight,

would have been a better relationship to nurture with Dick Wolf over the long run because they didn't realize he was becoming Dick Wolf. Right? So that's all hindsight. And they could have done

five, six, seven, eight, whoever knows how many seasons of that. And ultimately the pay would have gone up, but Fox was still a fledgling network at that time also. So Fox didn't have to pay residuals. Fox wasn't even paying a lot of the things that ABC, NBC, and CBS were

because they were getting around the law. They were skirting laws the same way streaming has been. So from a business model standpoint, Dick was like, I don't need a headache. If this is how y'all, this is how y'all want to act, go get another job that makes you just as popular. And so I can actually see it from both sides now as a grown man. I'm like, oh, man.

And it sucks because that show was, it meant so much to us culturally. But that's where I got to educate people about the business of how to behave. And when I say behave, that doesn't mean stay in your place. All of us have a responsibility to behave over our beliefs at any given time. That means to just know who you dealing with. Trust me, if both of them understood that Dick Wolf was going to become Dick Wolf, I think they would have chilled taking $10,000 or $20,000 less at that time and just let it go up organically. Yeah.

Could have been law and order. You've been so generous with your time. I don't want to say too much. That's a polite way of saying, thank you. We'd like you to leave now. No, no, no, Van may have more questions. We do. We do.

Van has more questions. Van has more questions. I was going to say a question that sounds like it was going to be towards the end. But no, we're not done as long as you want to give us time. I want to know why you took a girl on the first day to Schindler's list. I love you. I read the book. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

I'm reading the book. Hold on. I'm reading the book. And Jalil, hold on. I'm reading the book. It was a stupid thing to do, bro. And Jalil is talking about all of these issues and these ladies and stuff like that. And then I'm looking at the unforced errors in the book.

I'm like, Jalililil's going out on the first date with a girl. It's their first date. And they're going to the movies. Going to the movies. And Jalilel's like, I'm taking it to see the new Spielberg film. Schindler's list. What was the five? Who in the fuck would take a girl to see Schindler's list on the first date?

You said rom-com. Shillers list is not a wrong-com. That doesn't set itself up. Well, the limo was a rom-com. I left out the steak restaurant of the lake on Lake Militonka. I left out some other things. Okay. That's nice.

To cover it up, okay? I left out some things, you know what I'm saying? Jolil needed a crew, man. But I just, again, I love this for us, fan. Gosh, I love this for us. I love this fast. You know, we are, all of us are how we feel about ourselves. And at the time, you know, I was 17 years old.

I'm pulling up at the NBA All-Star game. And, man, the NBA treated me well. But we had a good relationship. Yeah, we had a great relationship. We had great relationship. And then they had, but they would leave an itinerary on your bed in your hotel room of all the NBA sanction parties. And the number one NBA sanction party was,

a party at a glam slam, which was at Paisley Park, which was at Prince's house. And so I wanted to go bad. I was a huge Prince fan. I mean, diamonds and pearls. I was the best one I'm banging at the time. And I'm like, but I just met this girl. And I mean, she is stunning to the point where I'm almost like, I'm almost like, do you know you with me?

Like that kind of stunning. And so I asked her, I'm like, hey, listen, we can go to Prince's house. but I don't know if we're going to get in because I don't have ID and she was a New York girl too so she's like I have ID but I understand right and I was at all we could just go to the movies I can get the car to take us to the movies

and you know lucky for me she was just so naturally into me at that time that she was just like whatever you want to do we can go to the movies she just hit me with that so it wasn't about I didn't want to take a girl to Prince's house get rejected

on on not being of age I don't drink, so now I don't want to feel the pressure to drink. And I'm around all these NBA ball players. And Prince. And Prince, I'm like, I'm losing my girl. That's the thing. Don't play me. You didn't want to take it to the point.

You're actually smarter. So if it's between that and shinless list, I kind of get it, but y'all should have saw something else. But it actually could I just say it would have been really revealing because if she was distracted and was more caught up and all of that, then you would have known what type of girl she was. But still, you know. Maybe you already knew, and you took it to the movie. No, she was a good girl, man. I can't.

I will only have good things to say about that. That would, but listen, I'm that as stupid as it was, again, it just, the story was told to show the innocence and not a time of the night. So the fact that it got that visceral reaction out of you, that's what I wanted. He called me. I'm laughing. That was not the place to take a young black girl.

You talk about the business, like we just had this whole conversation about New York and I covered all of that. And you've talked about them wanting to do a reboot and you've talked about how they wanted to do that. And you get into that in the book. But were you surprised that all these years later, and I don't remember if you put a timeline on when they wanted to do the reboot, but all these years later that the business hadn't changed and they still saw things the exact same way and wanted things the exact same way

from you and weren't being necessarily receptive to how you wanted to do it or any type of evolution of who you've become. Oh, believe me, the business changes. It changes fast. It just doesn't necessarily change for us so fast. We're really not allowed to be the innovators on a widespread level. You know, shout out to people. I root for people who I don't even know or I've only met briefly.

I did one episode of Atlanta for, um, for, um, for, for Donald Glover and work with Brian and Hero and those guys. And I could tell, I said, these dudes are doing, they're making their own show. Like, and when the first season came out, I'm like, it's brilliant. So what happens to us, though, is when that happens, it's like, oh, only Donald can do it. Period. Oh, it's incredible, but only Donald can do it. Don't try to get another one to do that.

And that, that's the part that I find disheartening. But at the same time, I'm just, I'm such an. Optimistic Sedge, I'm like, nah, just be patient. Don't be a jerk. And, you know, your opportunity will come. We ran, I saw a single camera, half hour comedy is coming in like a storm in the horizon, just tonally. Comedy is just tone. That's all it is. And I saw it coming in with Bernie Mac and the office and modern family. But those shows are more expensive to produce. So typically when they refer to us, and when I say they, I just say the development system, they're always thinking cost as it relates to the urban market.

And that was the part that I found very shocking. Like I would have full meetings in my early 2000s when I won't name certain networks, whatever, but where at the end of our pitch, they'd be like, well, have you taken this to Magic Johnson? Like, oh, I hear he's doing some production things. I just pitched you and you just told me to take this to a basketball player. Now, how does it sound me showing up to Laker training camp just because I'm famous and I'm stretching on day one? How the rest of the Lakers? Everybody go look at this.

Is that you little white over there? What's he doing? But we get that with a straight face. And we have to just, again, be like, hey, do you validate parking? Thank you very much. And move on to the next meeting. So, no, the business is changing. It is innovating at a high clip.

It's just the innovations generally cost a little bit more money. And so because of that, we're always kind of like a step behind. Like, hey, how about we do that reboot or that sitcom? And, yeah. So you're a Jalil White now. I mean, when I would say that you are Jalil White for a lot of my childhood and into my teen years, you were. Is a part of your hesitance to do a reboot is because you've finally been able to kill Urkel.

Because Erkel, you've finally become Jalil White and you don't want to resurrect the melding of your life and the character? Well, first of all, Purple Urkel is going to live forever, so I can't ever get rid of the day, right? I'm not worried about getting rid of Uncle. I'm not worried about you. But I do a love and appreciate that you recognize that the other work that I've done to become me.

For me, it's always just been about the audience experience, though. That's what drove me all those years to keep my box top fade the same and do what I needed to do to play that character, all those characters was the audience enjoyment. And then as I started getting towards, you know, seventh, eighth, especially in the ninth season,

I could feel they weren't enjoying it as much. The tone was shifted. What changed? And everything changed. Like I said, hip-hop was coming in hard with imaging. You know, I talk about it in a book extensively.

The biggest usher of change for me was watching Friday amongst my peers at Kirkoff Coffee House, UCLA, and just the uproarious laughter at Chris Tucker and Cube. Man, God bless Cube, he's done so much for just black filming TV. It's ridiculous.

If you really break it down, who he's discovered. So I don't worry about the people who will always see me as that because they've decided they will always see me as that anyway. I'm more concerned with the thinking people like yourselves who see each step as another step in the journey. For me, reboots are not working. And the ones that would work, they don't even want to make for us.

I don't know if you've noticed, but there are no black reboots. girlfriends should have been rebooted easily I know a little something about that I can think but again there's probably some business stuff yeah exactly exactly it's probably some business stuff

so I'm not going to stick my hand in it but I'm like I can think of four or five different black shows that I'm like why didn't you reboot that why do you reboot this and there's always some kind of personal or business matter in the background is holding things up

I want to advance the culture so I wrote my book really to be inspiration for what I think the show needs to be, which is just a celebration of the 90s. And not my childhood, but actually the characters surrounding my character would be the more full characters now. Now you would get a chance to explore what Darius McCraerry really was. And we were six months apart in age.

Nobody realizes that watching that show. That you're watching two boys that are six months apart in age. To put that on screen, that's entertaining. that's funny as hell. Like I was literally trying to get an autographed poster from Steven Spielberg on the lot when we were shooting as Sony as kids because he was shooting a hook next door.

And all Darius was trying to do was get Julia Roberts to his dressing room. What do you think about Darius now? I want to ask you that. I want to ask you that. I would have been you. What do you think about Darius now? Darius is in the headlines for something crazy,

every other day. No, I'm asking you, man. I just say, Darius is in the headlines for something crazy. What do you think about his whole heart? You got the uncles in your family that's wild. Everybody. Everybody is the one.

So he's the wild uncle. There you go. Darius is the wild uncle. There you go. And he knows it. And I can call it right now. When you just laughed at it, it was like, you know.

Are you ever concerned for him? Or you ever reach out to make sure he's okay? No, because I'm concerned for some other ones. Now, there's some other ones out there I'm concerned with. Who? That other one from Raven's home. That's another level of crash out. That's another, I won't say to that.

That's another level of crash out. But Darius... What's the thing there? Like, what, what, what... Well, because that, that, I don't want to even talk about that. I want to talk about Darius. Darius is very aware of what he does. But he, you know, he is very aware of what he does.

Darius don't, you know, other than the child custody stuff, Darius don't go to jail. Darius doesn't really, you know... It's not dangerous. Darius is not dangerous. Darius is not dangerous. I'm telling you this business has turned all of this into a game of attention

That's true And if you don't If you don't find your peace in that Like I'm not here for attention I'm here because it's you dude And then I get to meet you And I've watched you So whether you realize or not

You attracted me here to talk to you Based on how you conduct yourself here And then I'm gonna go off and have a good day Not everybody moves that way. Like, there's a lot of people that are like, they're in pursuit of something else that might not be so healthy. But that's their journey. And so Darius is very self-aware,

and I'll never denigrate what he does. But I do know that his childhood speaks for some of the wildness that you see now because I saw the sides of it upstairs at his dressing room where I was not allowed to go as a kid. You talk about your relationships with several cast members in the book. What do you, and so I don't want to get into all of that, but we talked about so much, we've covered so much, what do you, I guess I could ask this two ways.

What do you want people to take away from the book? And maybe also people think they know you, but they really don't until they listen or read this book. I suggest listening because I think it's a lot more fun. But what do you think that's also like the biggest, misconception people have about you? I don't know. I'm like, I don't want to just throw it back to you, but I'm really enjoying getting your,

y'all's feedback. What were your takeaways of me from listening to or having read the book? I want to hear it. Because I can have a whole laundry list or whatever, but I'm like, I'm enjoying what the actual takeaways for. Like I said it, my computer, I did this, you know. Can I be honest? Yeah. We're a lot of like. We have a lot of similarities. I didn't, you know, I didn't know your story about how you grew up. Like, I think I knew you were an only child. But, you know, I kind of felt like I grew up with you just watching you through the 90s. But I didn't realize we had a lot of the same similarities.

And some of the things that you did and how you reacted, like you just said, you were trying to get Steven Spielberg's autograph because hook. Like, I would have been trying to see Hook. Like, there were a lot of similarities that I was like, oh, I'm a lot more similar than I thought. Like, that was some of, that was like a interesting thing. I think me reading it, there was a direct choice that was made

by you and your family. And the choice was made you have to navigate all of these different cultural things in a time where culture was like snowballing down this hill, right? We're getting gangster rap.

We're getting all of this stuff. And your family made a choice to preserve something about you that would be lasting in terms of who you would be as a person rather than build something else, maybe a little bit more synthetically or maybe a little bit more

from a celebrity standpoint that might have changed your overall outlook or your overall trajectory in things. It's almost as if they chose your mental health and your, I guess, you being around over maybe you being the cool thing at one point.

Like you saying, like little things in the book. Like you saying, you and Bumper Johnson went to Buckley, you had never been to Buckley before. If you guys don't know. Is Bumper Robinson? No, I got to give you. Oh, Bumper Roberts.

Excuse me. Buckley, if you guys don't know, is one of the biggest, fanciest private schools out here. Buckley, Harbor, Westlake, Notre Dame, all of these places like that. Now Sierra Canyon, right? Your parents wanted you to go to the South Pasadena.

They wanted you to go there. My mom was adamant. You're going to public school. They wanted you to go to public school. Now, had you gone to Buckley, you might have had a different trajectory. You might have seen things a little bit different. But in the long term, it might have been at the expense of you being a healthy man right now. And their pros and cons when you do that, I do look at some of the observations that you have on culture.

And it does sometimes seem like. like, you grew up as the quintessential nerd in a time where, because I was a nerd, but, but you grew up like, I still am, you grew up in a, in, as the quintessential nerd in a time where it, in the worst possible time to be that. Thank you. I'm just, I'm just being for real. I'm not insulted by that. In, in the, in the worst possible time to be that.

Did you feel that in the moment, though? It wasn't safe to be overly intelligent. It wasn't safe to. I don't want to say overly intelligent, though, because I think... Peculiar. Pick a word. Again, people get a cull up on these words. The only reason why I won't say overly intelligent is because I don't want to... I think, when I think of... First of all, it's interesting. The nerds went on to rule the world and they've always ruled, right?

They just always... In that same decade that we're talking about, you see the rise of Bill Gates, which happened in 90s. You see all of the guys now, the tech bros... But they didn't get love for it back then. They didn't get love for it back then. But by the time... Look at Jeff Bezos' early interviews, dog, in that car. But by the time, but by the time country grammar comes out,

you got Nelly, no shirt on in St. Louis, saying, Bill Gates let me in. So, like... Yeah, because you got money now. That's what I'm saying. So, but what I'm saying is, I think that might have had, um, like a profound effect on you as well.

Oh, yeah. On the way that, or some of the cultural outlooks that you have. Have you embraced the fact that the nerds won? The Urqu's won. We got billions of dollars at the MCU. We got Star Wars on Disney Plus. We got to be able to, we got anime going crazy. Going crazy.

We won. Like we won. When I lead this podcast, I'm going to do a podcast or I'm talking about the new Superman trailer. Yo, the game is over. We won. We don't even got to think about it no more. Check it out. Check it out.

I think ladies like that. If I could, if I, if I, if there's a movie I can remake, I, I, I'd put a whole flip on Revenge of the Nerds because today it would be called Revenge of the Jobs. Yeah. Like, we want, you should do that. You should. I mean, I mean, like, we want Ashley to be honest with you. We're the bad guys now.

Okay, relax. Okay, we are. The zucks. He can care. He can carry away. He can care away. He's going to say, must. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Doug, Elon, Bezos, all like Gates, all of these people.

Like, we're the bad guys now. We are now the jocks in the 80s. You just put yourself on the other than that. I can feel his head expanding inside that hat. I can feel it. Keep the hat on, doctor. That would be freaky. That would be freaky if we actually saw it expand on camera.

How many did he far as you been to? Never invited. You never got invited to the Diti party. I never. I mean, we crossed paths with homie, but never invited. See? Winning. How much it is, how much of the stuff do you believe about praying on young, because we've talked about this before in the last 15 years,

how much of the stuff do you believe about the industry from even a sexual or an exploitative way playing on praying on young stars how much of that stuff do you think is true I mean taking advantage of the young and the naive it's just

it's just integral to the Hollywood existence you know you don't even need to put a color on it or whatever like once somebody peeps you and it's like oh you don't know

whatever they want from you they're going to try to get it and it's like and it's like I don't I'm not being dismissive. I'm just like, for all the mistakes that my parents made, their number one instinct was to protect me. I'm not leaving my son on that set full of adults alone for hours at a time.

People who would be predators see that, and they go, oh, not that one. They move on to easier prey. So, you know, it was like, even the situation that just happened with Jay-Z's accuser. Now, I really hope that bigger publications give him the apology that's coming. That's deserved. Because I heard that

the the accuser's father came out on record and saying he has no record of ever having driven her. Yeah, the case looks like a sham. Okay. Driven. Okay. That's, that is a huge review. And all

of the media outlets that have maligned him and run it as the clickbait that, you know, put the shine, put this light on it, they're not going to spend nearly as much time retracting it. They're just going to be like, oh, it went away.

No, they won't. I have a little bit of different clickbait. I don't, and listen, I don't, listen, just, I, one of the things we got to do better because, and that's one other way I came, it's like,

we got to be careful now in this new age of clickbait, of tangency. Correct. And I've watched you correct yourself and me a couple of times, and we've been helpful with each other in that. But just leave it at that.

Like, yo, that case is a sham. That man is always an apology regarding that shape, regarding that case. Talk, Rachel. Talk. If you got something else you want to say, but I'm saying for me regarding that case. I think that we have learned. I think that we have learned on this podcast in particular to when something like this

falls out or rolls out, right? Jay-Z's not the first. You know, we've talked about other people. when there have been accusations that have been accusations that have been made against someone. Thank you to be clear. When there have been accusations made and so when we try to speak on it,

I try not to say, I believe this or I don't believe this or this is not true or I'm picking aside. So I'm trying to maintain that same energy even though everybody thinks that I am picking aside. I'm going to wait for this to see.

I'm not in a place where I can say he's already owed an apology. I'm not in a place to say... It's not enough to you that there's no criminal charges and that the girl's father says she didn't... Well, there can't be criminal charges because the statute of limitations has run on what that charge would be in the state of New York.

There can't be any federal charges because that has to be brought by a government agency. What about the girl's father saying? He doesn't remember driving his daughter. I said that's the most damning thing. That's pretty rough. I also said that the father coming out is also weird to me.

Like coming out and making a statement in front of the press. Why isn't it even more weird? The father coming out and making a statement because he's a social statement. that's his daughter. First of all, let me tell you something. Hold on, I'm a girl dad.

So that one, I, I, I, you think you would come out? There's no way in the world. My daughter could be involved with something like that. And I'm not standing right by her side. There's no way in the world. Would you come out against your daughter?

Because that's what he essentially did. It's one or two things are going to happen. That's what I just find a little weird. It's one or two things are going to happen, at least for my daughter. And my daughter, I have a great relationship with my daughter, knock on wood. I'm either standing by her side

or that doesn't even go public. Because I understand how is it going to affect the long term of her life? What do you mean about that? But if the daughter goes public without you knowing, are you then going to get involved? You're just going to be like... Because I have to either have to know the truth and support her or I have to guide her and be like, honey,

that's, this is half base. What she's saying is there, is there a situation where you could think of publicly having the latter conversation with... Right. Publicly saying, I never, publicly not showing support for your daughter's claim. That's what I'm saying is weird. I'm not, that's just odd behavior. And by the way, just to let you know, real quick,

the way I look at this is you judge these things based upon the information that you have, right? But why all of the publicity when you have so many ifs? Right. So this is the part that I have an issue with legally. This is my deal. Any, any accusation of that magnitude against a celebrity of that magnitude

is going to generate a whole lot of interest. Exactly. And so what I said before that got washed in the the dick riding in the conversation was, if you know Jay-Z, if you knew Jay-Z, and you thought that Jay-Z was incapable of doing what was accused of him, that is okay. Your parissocial relationship with Jay-Z,

meaning him as a big-time rapper, that doesn't mean very much because you don't know him, right? However, if information comes out and information is reported, because information is what's needed to make decisions about these cases, both in court and in the court of public opinion, and you get information that is rife with inconsistencies, and the story that's being told doesn't look like what happened, it is completely okay for you to say,

I do not think that he did it. Yes, you can. Right. And so that's the only thing. So if there's another side of this where we'd have to litigate what accusers remember, how trauma plays into somebody's recollection or something, all of that stuff.

I don't want to say it. Right now with the reports that have come out, if you look at that, and I personally do, I look at it and I go, okay, this doesn't look like something that took place to me.

It doesn't look good. Okay, and I'm in agreement. So I'm in agreement. So now, not to convolut the discussion. Because I want to ask you a direct question about this real quick. Convolution discussion. Ask me your question.

My question is this. Going back to this, not to get too into the Jay-Z thing, how much when we look at these situations, Nickelodeon had a whole Quiet on the set thing. They talked about the culture that was surrounding Nickelodeon. And I finally broke down a watch Quiet on the set.

And one particular producer there, I want to ask you what you think about Quiet on the set, but I also want to ask you a direct question based upon something that you said, how much responsibility for the mistreatment of kids in the business goes directly back to the parents or the authority figures of those kids.

Again, I don't ever want to feel like I'm attacking other parents that I don't know. Sure. You just got to, you know, that, I know it seems like I'm selling books, man, but I really, I'm selling you a vibe. Really, I am. The first miracle in our lives, it's in our book, is just who you're born to. So, you know, if it wasn't your parent's instinct to protect you in that way, then your journey is going to go left. When I watch Quiet on set, as soon as that boy's father was removed from the circumstance, with that divorce that he went through with his wife.

The father knew, he said, some may write with this dude. Yeah. But moms wasn't connecting enough to dad's instinct to protect her son and was easily brainwashed into his removal. And just like a game of chess, once he got dad out of the way, he had his way. And so that's, you know, my journey, I just, is such a salute to parents. who've made, you know, who go that extra mile to understand that, you know, your child needs protection.

It's not everybody's instinct. It's just not. Like, my daughter met. I knew my daughter was in a co-parenting situation. Sometimes she's going to be with her mother, sometimes she's going to be with me. It's one of the most heartbreaking things you can go through as a parent, especially when you're not on the same page

with the other person. When we walked through a parking lot, my daughter's three years old. We play a game called breaklights. driveway and I give her little prizes or whatever when she pointed out the brake lights before me or whoever said it first. You know why? Because when you walk it through a parking lot, you see brake lights. It means the car's backing up. And I don't want my daughter growing up with some suburban mentality that cars are just supposed to always stop for me. And, you know, if I see a driveway, I should just be on my phone and just walk it. No, I'm teaching my child

at three years old, get the big picture, be aware. That's my instinct. That was getting. given to me by Gail and Michael. That's largely what the book is about. My daughter carries that now. You have a second question? No, that was it. Look, man, the book is called Growing Up Urkel.

It really is, if it was whack, I'll tell you, you know that. It really is a fun read. It's a fun read with a lot of stuff in there. and it's also a trip back through a different era of television you know streaming has changed a lot of stuff

but watching how this watching how we got to the point or how television was and how acting and celebrity affected people in the 90s where there really was a celebrity monoculture when something really could become your entire identity

it's a very very interesting read last thing Are you rich forever from family matters? So you never have to work again? I'm going to be all right, man. But I do other jobs. I work. I don't like people treat me like I'm a dad with no job.

Like I'm Tommy or something like that. I got the other than going to. You're on skeleton crew right now on Disney Plus Great Show. And you also married well. But you're also married well. But if for nothing else, you never have to work again because of family matters. I'm always going to work, brother. I just don't even see life that way.

I do. I don't. I love it, though. I used to go back in the office at TMZ, and I would be like, because I'd be either running or walking, I'd be like, yo, man, this nigga Jalil got the best life in the world.

Don't be telling me back. Come on, man. It's one o'clock and Jalil riding his bike. Jalil with his daughter. Maybe I'll work at night. Maybe I work in night. You know what I'm saying? Maybe I have graveyard hours.

You know, my favorite moment of this entire chat, though, is you being able to tell me. I was bad at you. I saw that clickbait and I clicked on it. I didn't see it as clickbait. I didn't appreciate what you said, et cetera, et cetera. But I took the next step as a black woman to go listen to your book and hearing your voice and even talk to you right now, you know, has just changed my opinion about a lot of things. That in itself warms my heart, makes my holidays. You really don't even understand. Because even I, even I've somebody who've been on television my entire life, that makes me feel seen in a very special way.

Yeah, no, absolutely. Because watching the clip, I was disappointed. I shouldn't even say, Matt, I was disappointed that that was your take. And then, you know, now I know in a different way. So hopefully everybody else will feel the same way. I was looking, I was staring at the book because I was like, Adam Sandler did. Blurbed it. Yeah, yeah.

What's y'all's relationship? I was in a movie, Hustle. Okay. And it was just such a, it was such a meaningful. I think, first of all, I think Hustle was an amazing. It's a great movie. Yeah, great movie. And I spent 18 days quarantine with him shooting that movie.

Can you hoop? Yeah, he could hoop. He's not as athletic as he used to be, but Adam's a great passer. And he's a wonderful teammate. Most is the most, because me and you have talked about Sterling and Mike and all of the guys we know are good players, Chris Brown, all the rest of them. Who's the most unexpected good Hollywood basketball player? Oh, number one was Brian McNabb. Brian?

Oh, no, no, no, no, that's expected. We know him. Oh, okay. I didn't know that. No, no, no. No, he could, no, no, no. He could play, like, in a real way. And the worst part about Brian would tell you about it.

So, you know, nobody likes being trashed off by an R&B person. But he also, he also like, he also like 6, 4, 6, 5 or something like that. Like, he could really, he could really play in a real way. I'm going to do you, and I'm going to take your girl, or you're going to be listening to my music while you're trying to get your girl. That's hilarious. Unexpected. There's an R. Kelly story in the book, too. that's very funny.

But the most honest... Did you enjoy that one? That was hilarious. Because I've heard that story, that same version of that story from so many different people are just well I'd say, Arkellie is a fucking scumbag. But he would play basketball a lot and everybody would talk about. It's interesting how you connected what you saw from him on the basketball court to who he would end up eventually being revealed to be. It really is an interesting connection.

It's a lot of... It's a lot of... I just... Everybody, you know, people... the people who have negative things to say, and I really try to ignore them because there's so much positivity I'm getting. I'm like, man, I'm leaning into that.

That was like, it's not about me. It's just that I have this really interesting journey of my life that's taking me past some of the most iconic people and some of the most iconic moments. And so I just want to be used almost in a Forrest Gump kind of way to be like, oh, wow. Tulal White was there. Like on my graduation day, OJ's Bronco went right by

my hotel, the hotel where my mom was having brunch and I'm begging the bartender to please put on the Knicks versus the Rockets finals. And he's like, I'm sorry, everybody wants to watch. And I said, why? The car's down there. They can look out the window? Can we put on the guy?

That's just a crazy forest dumpian moment for me to have in my life. So I think there's a part of the 90s and a part of the early 2000s that people yearn for, just greater communication and then greater, you know, and I just think that my book and the stories alike like that, there need to be more of. Growing up, Urkel, the movie. I want to see it next. I want to see it.

Yeah, on Tooby. They're not going to pay the rate. They're not going to pay the rate. Tooby doing good, y'all ain't on Toobie, Tooby doing good. Y'all meaned Tooby into being a legit fucking streamer. Y'all don't even see what Toobie doing. They incepted, y'all. Appreciate you joining us today.

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Garlic aoli, crumbled bacon, corn salsa. 40 grams of protein made to keep up with whatever comes next. New sweet green wraps hit different. Order now at order. Dot sweetgreen.com. All right. That is enough podcast for today. Thank you to Jill White.

The book is Growing Up Urkel. And it's Garee. And a great listen. Garee. Rachel, great interview. That's from you, too. That was a lot of fun. We didn't even anticipate that being the whole podcast, but it was so good.

We had to keep it going. What topics, okay, let's real quick, what topics didn't we do because of? We did not do, which I'm pleased about. No Cardi being offset. We didn't get into the mess of their relationship drama, which continues and will continue to continue. So I'm sure that we'll come back up. You read them off. Tell them what we didn't do.

We did not get into, this is breaking news as of Thursday morning. Georgia appeals court disqualifies Fulton County DA, Fannie Willis from prosecuting Trump. That is something that we have been covering. We should still touch on that because I'm sure there'll be more. That's just breaking news. So I'm sure more developments will pop out today, Friday. Yeah. And so we'll cover that.

Michael Vick getting the job at Norfolk State. I hope the trend continues. Trinity Rodman opening up about her relationship with her dad on Caller Daddy. Yeah. Yeah, very tough to hear. I know. It's one of the – I like the relationship stuff. I hate with love.

I also hate hearing the relationship break down. parent and child. Yeah, but sometimes I look at stuff like that as actually a wake-up call? Wake-up call. I don't think it's his first wake-up call. I don't think it's his first wake-up call, but I do think that this is, just from seeing this, I do think that this puts a different level of scrutiny. But see, then I start to question.

Why can I ask it what scrutiny? Scrutency. Scrutiny. But then I begin to question, well, then what's the motive behind it? Are you doing it because of the backlash? that you're getting publicly. Like that's, that's, I would question what is his motive? Oh, I mean, that's a fair question.

I just, I just, because you've had years to. Right. I would say that sometimes you need to know just how bad things are. And maybe that could be right about it. I don't know. But we're not doing the topic. So there it is. And also one more thing was, uh, Donnie put this in.

Pornhub says it will block access to a site in Florida. Florida, you voted for it. Now you can't jack off. Okay. And you join 12 other states. 12 other states. Y'all, I just want to let y'all know. Y'all voted for this.

Y'all voted for the outlawing of jacking off. There's so many things that's coming. Like, think about this. Think about what y'all voted for. Measles is coming back. Polio. Back. Y'all voted for a world with measles,

polio, and no jacking off. Let's let's lighten it. You know, we're in the era of reboots. Oh, let's go to reboot. We're rebooting Polio. We're rebooting Polio. We're rebooting and we're rebooting

our chastity and making people not so we rebooting. We're re-so that's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like that. We're going to talk about things that Trump and the new political system is rebooting.

Yeah. We're rebooting, uh, authority. Oh, did I tell you something we're rebooting? What? No niggas at Ivy League schools. Oh, yeah. All the way down.

I think that the 16 niggas got into Harvard? 19. 19. 19. 19, since they remove affirmative action. 19. So we rebooting. Racism?

That never left. Yeah. Discrimination at these. It's a reboot. It's a reboot. We just had Julio-L-White. We like a reboot. We like a reboot.

We like a reboot. Other storyline, Disney pulls, transgender storyline from Pixar's Win or Loo streaming series. That's getting a lot of attention. Reboating transphobia. Right? Also, not surprising.

Yeah. If you've been following the journey of Disney. It will be interesting to see who is still susceptible to the woke rules. Because now that woke is dead, right? The idea of woke, which, by the way, I just say this real quick, because people were talking about woke and what woke means. The only thing that people were trying to do was create an inclusive world where we monitor discrimination, oppression, and disparities.

Right? We're trying to look at the world through a lens of equality. Now, I'll be honest. When doing that, there sometimes is the penchant for self-righteousness. And sometimes when that happens, you might lose the ability to relate to people in a way that allows you to clearly explain the altruism of your position. you might put yourself in the situation when you know or believe that your way is the better way to divorce people from their humanity

and who they are and the cultural systems that created them and start to not interrogate those systems but interrogate those people. And when you do that, you create enemies. Now, I don't mind creating enemies. No, you don't. just because, you know, I've never been the most popular guy in the room wherever I've been.

However, there is something to be said about learning lessons in the way to present your version of society to people that make sure that everybody knows that it's there for the betterment of it and not for the persecution of any one or two or three people. Yeah, that was sad. And so I think that that is the lesson to be learned. Not that the capture of a term or an ideal should be used or the capture of that term should be submitted to. We should say, hey, whatever. But there are lessons to be learned and I hope that people can learn those lessons. Any part after Julele is over now, take your thing caps up, but do not stop learning. I have Van Lee from Jr.

I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Bye, guys.