Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Higher Learning: Live With Thought Warriors

Episode Date: February 1, 2023

Finally! In the podcast's first live event, Van and Rachel host a screening of Netflix’s ‘You People,’ followed by a Q&A with listeners about the film (:46), the Emmanuel Acho situation (11:32), and watching the NFL after the blackballing of Colin Kaepernick (31:41). Hosts: Van Lathan Jr. and Rachel Lindsay Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We're so glad that we could make this happen. I mean, I feel like we were just playing around on the podcast. Right. And now this is coming to fruition. So it's so good. This is the first time we've done something in front of a live audience. We just wanted to have the opportunity to hang out with you guys. Your feedback and your energy for the podcast is really, really important.

So without further ado, you people, Kenya Bearish, Jonah Hill, Lauren London, Niallon, Nia Long, Eddie Murphy. And then they got the white people. So we'll watch it right now. The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul predicts. Predict the spread, total points, and even the game winner. Sign up and get a $25 bonus. Offered by Fandual Prediction Markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant, 18 plus. Bonus is non-withdrawable and expires seven days after receipt.

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Ask your doctor about Trimfaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimfaya, including important safety information. All right. Okay, wait. Let's keep it all the way real. Hold on. So raise your hand if you liked the movie. If you can lose it.

Wow. Okay. Raise your hand if it was all right. Raise your hand if it was whack. I know. Jummi's funny one. So that's my second time seeing it. And what did you think?

The first time I saw it, I either called you or text you immediately and I said, I don't think you're going to like the movie. Right. Second time I watched it, I'm kind of like, okay, it was better than I thought. Right. I want to know, because the first time I saw the movie, I saw it with a group of people, and it was silent.

Nobody really laughed. Nobody clapped. But you guys did. I'm curious, I'll ask you the first question. Were there any scenes? Because the reason it was quiet when I watched it is because a lot of people were uncomfortable. And they didn't know.

It was a room full of journalists. And I don't think they knew whether to laugh, clap, just have any type of emotion. Did any part, any scene in it make you uncomfortable? No. Well, this is you. I mean, yeah, but the movie was trying to put you into that uncomfortable spot in order to then extract the comedy out of it. So, like, that's the whole thing. The movie is like not so much a story as it was a collection of ridiculous scenes.

that then led up to an end, which is fine. I mean, that's still, I mean, it's not like really, man, that shit was whack, dog. Like, you know what I mean, it's not, it wasn't whack, but it's like, I don't know. It was just, all right, not great. It was cool. I wish we had a better movie.

I wish we would have all gotten together to see Avatar, Way of Water, which is a singular cinematic experience that you guys would have all left change. Let me tell you what happens in this bitch. So, they got a fucking whale. we're not doing this that can talk to like the other whales and he's an outcast

and just at the end when you think he's fucked up right into your face you know what I'm saying that's cinema as Jomey would say this was cool

it was cool or was it whack which I was whack you didn't like that you want to see them fuck well no Whoa, whoa. Was it, is it what?

You didn't get enough Jonah. Look how he's looking at him. You didn't get enough Jonah Hill. What? Being in an interracial relationship. Ah! Like, I just, you didn't get to ask that question.

No, I knew it was coming. I just feel like, there was no chemistry between, whether your parents are driving crazy when you're getting married. Like, you have, you want to like, you're into that person and you are like, you're into that person. Yeah. Because you're in. to that person and they had no chemistry at all.

Rachel, what was it like to marry a white man? Okay, let me answer your question. Funny. I struggled with the love story too, and I think because it wasn't believable, and I'm not saying because it was Lauren London and it was Jonah Hill, they seemed to get along, but they seemed like homies more than they seemed like there was a level of intimacy there. It's just the feet, you know what I mean?

we were supposed to watch them play feet and think that that was, there was a sexual encounter after that. I didn't, I didn't really, that didn't really sit well with me. And also, being in an interracial relationship, these, now my husband's not Jewish. And I know that the whole, look at you said. The whole, the whole thing in this movie is black and Jewish relations. So it was different. But I didn't have these type of awkward, weird conversations.

So I can't really relate to whether it seemed very forced And that they were trying too hard to create these awkward moments So it didn't relate to me in any way Necessarily being in an interracial relationship But I agree with you I thought the love story was not believable in any way And I'm pretty convinced that the kiss at the end was CGI Wow

Let me see here for a second So I have a fundamental issue with something that's like going on In films now The movies that I used to watch back in my day, the movies that I would watch growing up and the movies that I really came to love were films that were about people

that were in situations. And you understood who these people were and what their motivations were and what the point of the movie was through story, right? I was in a screenwriting class one time. The guy was teaching a class

who had written Beetlejuice and he would say that every single time and he said, I wrote Beetlejuice, nigger. And he showed me this scene where there was no dialogue in the scene. Like zero dialogue. But before this person is leaving their house, they put on a sweater, then they put on a windbreaker, then they put on a larger coat, then they put on like a hat, then they put on a scarf, then they put on all of this stuff. And when like he, you open the

door, you see people outside in bathing suits. So just from that scene, you know that there's something in that character that tells you. You don't need to hear somebody say, Aw, he's so off. Like, they show it to you. And I think a lot of times what happens and what happens in movies like this is they start preaching to you and start saying, hey, you're black.

But I never held that against you. It was something deep, deep, deep down in me that won't let me come to grips with you and whatever. And then every scene starts to be like that until we get to like a surprise winning at the end. I'm like it just doesn't work like that. The movie was funny at points,

but it was preachy and it was trying to drive home the message that shout out to Kenya, love him, he's been trying to drive home for a little while that black people and white people can be okay together. Get you, brother. Do a Marvel joint. Change.

But I think now everyone wants like something from the movies that we watch, right? Everyone wants something. Everything has to have a message. Write a good story about some crazy, funny people and then let it go.

I wrote a movie or I produced a movie where a black man was killed 150 times and his blood pulled in the shape of Africa and the white people said, hey, give you an Oscar. So I understand that this is kind of like, oh, thank you. One person was sorry.

But I'm just saying it's like, I'm just saying at this point, I would have rather watched the movie about their actual love story. Exactly. Then about like their parents and all of those things that really don't happen, man.

They don't happen. That doesn't happen like that. Yeah, there was a surprise wedding at the end. Like, you know. And you knew that was coming. I knew all of it was coming. Let me ask you, this movie was written three years ago and filmed three years ago. And they didn't change any of it based off of what has happened, you know, with Kanye and everything else.

They actually thought that the movie was going to get canned because of everything that was going on. And still, despite all. of it, they kept this, the script original as it was. Were there any parts, I'm curious for you guys, that you thought maybe they should have changed. Maybe they should have taken out. There's a moment when everyone laughed, and I thought people would, like, clutch their pearls at this one scene. When they said that they needed to make the ring look more holocausty. Oh.

And they needed to dirty it up. Intentionally. You know. Intentionally holocausty. All right, that was nice to meet you guys. Cut the lights off. You're not about to get me out this motherfucker. Who's, hey, cut that shit, Richie?

Never. And through that whole movie, I was really stuck when I'm more in London and the Huston. And I was, like, getting emotional just seeing her. But I never felt uncomfortable. I never felt like I wasn't, I thought it was straight up just trying to be, make me what are made white people about? I think it did make white people

but intentionally to make them it. It was cool. It was cool. And it's hard to it's hard to bag on the movie because you want to see her do well and that's another thing.

Like it's so good to see her. You know what I mean? She was great in it. Yeah, she was really good in it. She was like she was really good in it. I just, you know, you got Eddie Murphy, man. Let Eddie cook. You know, I don't know.

But he didn't want to. She was cool. He was supposed to play. play the role of the reserved more serious. Like he, that was, he enjoyed that. He got to be something different. That's the role he wanted to play. Yeah.

They burned his goofy. You know what I'm saying? It's like, you know, it's like, okay, cool. Y'all got questions? Spit them out. Let's go. What are we talking about? Q&A.

So Rachel Greene, how do you hear your apology rating? The apologies they actually gave. That's a good question. Now, these were good apologies. I don't know if everyone heard the question, but he asked what's my apology rating? These were good apologies. I would give these north of seven, somewhere of seven, I mean eight, maybe even a nine. These were good apologies.

Have you ever heard of 10? Oh. I haven't found one yet. Y'all think about that. Like, what's the best apology we've ever heard? Who gave the best apology? But things were good. Who think about that?

Of course, they were scripted. The best apology is what? You've been watching Fix Your Life. It's a good point though. It is a good point but like, you know, we got, we can't really go by that metric because we don't be like in a nigga life every day. We need the note the notes app. Who gave the best notes app shit? Who came back and said, I'm the best.

Who's the best apology? Who else has got a question? You can be about anything. Doesn't have to be about this movie. I'm ready to put it behind me. They came for the movie. I'm ready to move on with life. talk.

Okay. How are you guys doing with? You wanted it to go there. You were leading everybody past the movie. Back to Twitter. This is the only thing about the movie. All great. Shout out to Netflix.

Shout out to Kenya. We will answer your question. We'll answer the question. But we're not about to sit here and talk about that bitch for the next 20 minutes. Like, it's the godfather. I mean, shit was cool. Dope. Hope everybody got paid.

Shout out Netflix. We appreciate y'all. Kenya. Everything good. let's talk about Twitter. So is everybody abreast on what happened today? This episode is brought to by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and make it a mess.

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Is there a way that we could put the tweets? Can we put the tweets up? Is there a way we could do that? Donnie, Donnie, you have to get your lap, so don't worry about it. Okay, so this is what happened. Donnie's off the clock. This is what happened. And I'll be, you guys know me.

I'll be serious. This is what happened. Obviously, Emmanuel Acho came on the podcast. Did you hear that? when he came on a podcast. Okay. And we left. Whatever.

It went left. I've heard criticism on both sides, and that's fair. Call Rachel. And I say to Rachel, I say, look, should I post clips from the podcast? Correct. Rachel, what was your answer? I said, what's your intention behind it? Like, what kind of response are you trying to generate by posting those clips?

Okay. in that case, my co-host was right. Didn't need to promo the episode or purposely try to make him look bad or expose it to people who haven't seen it. Because, you know, it wasn't something that I was like super jazz about after it happened. I said everything I needed to say, but it wasn't like a, oh, let's let's wait. Everyone sees what Van said, whatever.

yesterday somebody is having a conversation with Emmanuel Acho this is after we've done another podcast it's like a week after this shit is over a week yeah and they say something about the comment that he made about

you know not having any generational trauma whatever and he said that I that one of the co-host reached and that he didn't really insinuate that or anything like that so I posted the clip

the end and now nigger people did what they were what i knew that they would do if they posted the clip and by the way i am not in any way reveling in the fact that he's getting kicked in this nuts like that because if we're being honest that's probably a net negative when we're having conversations about forward moving progress, it's always better if someone can leave feeling whole and not pulled apart and shredded apart. That's a fact if it's possible. However, in this specific situation, like there's a lesson here. Absolutely, there's a lesson. You, like you, well, this is, and we kind of talked about this a little bit on the podcast,

and this is why I have such a problem with what's, I've a lot of problems. I really had to debate whether or not I, I asked you, like, should I respond to the tweet? And the reason, if you haven't seen the tweets, Emmanuel is using my friendship, our friendship, and weaponizing it against Van and using it to further the narrative. And what's disappointing about this, and this is what I was saying that we alluded to on the podcast in our conversation after is that this could have been such a good conversation. This could have been the conversation that he needed to have with black people. You do a whole series about black people, but you never sat down and talked to black people

about how they feel about it. Because what I was telling him off, Mike, is that I don't know one black person who's okay with the way you're doing it. Nobody's questioning your intention, at least initially, but they have an issue with the method. And so I felt like at the end of the podcast, we took responsibility that things got intense, that things went left. There's been no accountability on his end, which is what's bothering me. All he's trying to do is prove a point on Twitter, which is why I think so many people are attacking him for what he did. I don't like, if you've seen the tweets, and this is what I wanted

to respond to, is that he's talking to me like about me, like I'm a damsel in distress. Like Van silenced me and Van manipulated me into having my friend come on the podcast so he could come at him. And that's not the case. What also bothers me is this was a week ago. I have talked to Emmanuel Thursday, ran into him Saturday and had a full conversation and also talked to him on Monday. This was put to bed. It was done. I have no idea why he decided to go on Twitter and bring all of this back up again and now here we are with him trending on Twitter and it seems like everybody

is jumping in on it. Black Twitter's trending again. Because Black Twitter's coming at him and this is not how this needed to be. It really could have been something great. It really could have been that. And with the and what's happening in Memphis right now and with the release of the video tonight I'm sure you guys

are all aware of what's going on. It's important to be intentional about the conversations that you have and the power the conversations. Let me tell you what I mean by that. Prior to, prior to me meeting Emmanuel Acho, I just had a problem intellectually with things that are said. There's a way that I look at freedom and justice and how those things make people feel whole. And I would challenge anyone in this room to think of a time in history when freedom was given.

When someone just went, I've fucked over you for long enough. Here you go. Now, if we talk about the French Revolution, the people stormed the castle and cut the head off the king. If we're talking about the Haitian resolution, the Haitian Revolution, Tucson and Bookman killed. Not just, they didn't just kill their slavers. they killed the black upper middle class that would have prevented them from a full revolution. They did exactly what they had to do. If you talk about this country, built on a revolution from people who they thought were oppressing them.

I'm not talking about violence here. I'm not talking about actual violence. What I'm talking about is an understanding of what it takes to wrestle freedom. and anything short of that is a half measure. That's a fact. And it doesn't matter whether or not it just is. History has rewritten stories of people that had peaceful methods, and they've made it seem like those methods were non-confrontational.

It's not true. It's just not. And so prior to having the conversation with him, I just thought he was a guy that thought he was going to hold hands with enough white people to end racism. And that is quaint in a way. It's like almost kind of like, you know, you know people like that. The kids in high school that were wear those khaki hats

from the curve like that and hang around with white boys. And, you know, I just always judge them. I'd be like, nigga, what you're wearing that for? But after having had the conversation with them and after all of this, I don't think I'll be honest with you. I think he's 1,000% full of shit. like in every way. I think he is brilliant

because he recognized the hole in the marketplace after the death of George Floyd and that hole in the marketplace was someone to pat white people in the black when everybody in the world was, when I say white people, let me be more specific. Pat white supremacy on the back

when everybody, because I don't want to individual, We're talking about systems here when everybody in the world was demanding answers. And I thought that there would be more substance to a conversation with him because, look, I've been on television for hundreds of hours. I've said thousands of words. There's nothing that strikes at the core of my intellectual belief that you can question me about that I can't engage you on. Nothing. Yeah.

Well, it's never been challenged, not publicly at least. I can't speak to any private conversations that he's had. but that's why this could have been so great. It's never been challenged publicly. He's never been questioned. He's never had to face the conversations that he's had. He can always speak to it in the way, in the exact way that he was speaking to us. You get more bees with honey than you do with vinegar.

And some people will take that. That wasn't the type of conversation that we were ready to have. This is what I will say because I was there at the beginning when he started uncomfortable conversations. Okay. The intention at the beginning, and I know because I was talking to him, that first video, I know, I don't, he wasn't trying to solve racism. He really, I don't like the way you're looking at me. He really was trying to just talk, right?

What he didn't anticipate is that it would take on the life that it did and people would respond that way. And then he got, I believe he got in over his head. And he was not equipped to have those type of conversations in those circles with those people. And that's why I asked him, to go back to something that you were saying, right? If the goal is the same, right? If the goal is the same for freedom, to end racism, to get to a better place,

the last question I asked him was, here we are two and a half years removed from when you started on comfortable conversations. Have things been better? Have things gotten better? How have your conversations helped? And if they haven't, then either they need to stop or you need to restructure how you're having these conversations. conversations. That's what I wanted him to see. Like, can we talk about that? If your heart is pure, if that is really your intention, if that's really your goal, and you're not accomplishing it, well, we got to start over. But you don't think that that's his goal, which is what you're saying. And because I know what the,

what the original idea was, how did you get back to there? And I think we're so far removed from it. I don't know if we ever can't. I want to make it a bigger conversation now so we can like stop harping on one person, but I just can't get this image out of my head. It's 20-20. He's seen everything that's going on. He's in his fucking home gym. He's like, fuck this shit. That's not what happened.

I got something for these motherfuckers. Ain't nobody ever tried this shit before. I'm the man. Emmanuel, what are you doing? I'm a 400 push-ups, dog. I'm going to talk to these motherfuckers. What color should the background be? Let's take everything away.

How are you going to be like, I don't want to harp on one person and then do that. this whole thing. Let's make it white. Drop me into the middle. Uncomfortable conversations with a black man. Should we call it? Should we say nigger?

Is that too much? Look, everything they say about me is true. I just let y'all know. Everything they say about me is true. I'm emotional. I'm angry. I get super mad when I read y'all comments.

Like, super pissed off. Like, what? Who's in the Reddit? Yeah, who's in the Reddit on here? Who's a soulless jackal? Don't be scared. Yeah, I tells you something right there. It's good people.

Everything they say about me is true. I'm not the guy. I'm not the one that's going to ever be, uh, it's not going to happen. I'm not going to be the one that's going to be someplace and lead, uh, a revolution of people or be an activist of any,

um, specific importance that's not going to happen. Because I just get mad. I punch the wall. I come back and I go, fuck you in the deal but the reality is like for like for me all of this stuff is like real like my mind has got so many car webs in it that like I don't get a chance to to distance myself from what's happening like I don't get a chance to like not over engage in every single thing calica is right

up there say hello everyone say hello to calica like calica knows I'll sit down and I'll be like oh I want to know how plane flies the next thing you know I'll just be in the like on the council with Bozeman. It's like the 15th video of watching plane flying, watching planes flying. Like people land and all over the world and stuff like that. I just get into it. And to be honest with you,

because of the fact that we've been at home, I've internalized black trauma like that. I mean, I just, I've, like, the people that raised me was, just talking to my mom today,

like the, the people that raised me was old people, like from South Louisiana that were just, intimately acquainted with their second class citizen status who taught me how to navigate a world where

your skin was like a mark for death like you drive by plantations and they're like oh these hanged niggas from trees like that and you're talking about like you know this is the whole that my big papa, rest in peace big papa he had a

house one of the first black landowners in south Louisiana and there's a hole in the middle of the living room. The way you can go down there if the clan comes. Like if the clan comes, pop the thing, go down there, hang out, some pistol down there

until they leave. They burn everything up, they do whatever they do. So, like, there's terrorism. It's like, it's real. So we're going to talk about it. I'm not any better than Emmanuel Acho. I haven't, like, no conversation that I've had has made anybody change. Like, we've all. been talking. We've all been talking and doing the best that we can and it's worse than ever, but

it's just the one way that I know doesn't work. The one thing that I know doesn't work is trying to appeal to the better nature of your oppressor. Like that's the,

we could try boycotts, we could try getting together, we could try to make, to film make our way out of it, we could try to art our way out of it. Art has been incredibly, but the one thing I know doesn't work is just to go, please stop.

You know what I mean? Because it seems like a part of uncomfortable conversations is to make white people feel comfortable. And that's never going to accomplish anything. Think about it. Well, it's not even just white. It's like whoever is fucking, like you guys, you know,

if you have vacation days and shit, I used to work TMZ, TMZ, they used to, you know, you couldn't get vacation. Just couldn't get vacation. Van, you're too important to the show. Okay. I know. It's okay.

We can't let you go. We love you. You know, go in there and try to ask them, yo, seriously. Like, this is really important to me that I could be like, can I please have this off? No. You have to be to a certain point where they feel like you're going to fuck them over.

Like when I became a big deal, I'd be like, fuck it. I just won't come to work. You got no van on the team. TV show and I'll stay gone. I need my vacation days. She knows. We're trying to go to Grenada, hang out with Charlamany and them. It's like they're not going to do it. You have to take what you want. You know what I mean? You have to take it. All right. We've talked about this too much. Anybody else got any other questions? What? Well, okay. I know we talked about this too much,

but I do want to say, one, I do appreciate you challenging him because y'all know when you have a platform, you're accountable and he has people listening to him. And this is, this is dangerous. The things he's doing, I feel like are very detrimental. I saw one of the tweets he said the word hostile, I think, basically calling black people hostile. So I feel like somebody needs to do something because he's out here with this narrative and it's, and it's harmful. I appreciate that. Thank you very much, sister. I appreciate you. Give her a round of applause. Rachel, your friend, you have the best intentions. Fuck that shit, man. Everybody I bring on the podcast gets criticized.

I bring on, like, the people I know was real niggas. You know what I'm saying? We should, well, no, that's how he came on the podcast. I know that that's also something that was going on on Twitter, and he was like he was duped and he was tricked and he lured, I believe, is the word that he used. The bottom line is we had already put this to bed.

I think of 240 pounds. We have put this to bed because we, it was a miscommunication. He knew, like, we thought he was coming on for one thing. He thought he was coming off for something else. But what you don't know is if you listen to the podcast, we really haven't talked about him in a positive way. And I have always called him and given him the heads up of like, listen, this is what we talked about on the podcast.

So he knew what we were coming from. But the reason he came on is, I don't know if y'all remember this episode where Van was like, I'm tired of getting kicked down because of my friends that come on and do reckless things on the podcast. I'm only having Rachel's friends come on. He was like, bring out one of the achos. So that's how we got a man. and then that's how we got Stephen A. Smith, which was a great conversation. Let's keep it all the way. Night and day. It was an example of how things should go.

You can be on, let me ask you this. If you hadn't had the conversation with Emmanuel, do you think you would have been as calm with Stephen A. Smith? So there's a thing about Stephen A. Smith. There's an authenticity there. And that's the thing. I was with Cap this morning. I went some. And there's like a real, I, it's very important for me to, for Colin Kaepernick to play in the NFL again. It's very important to me because it's a loss to me that I don't feel like the culture needs to take. I say that to say that Stephen A. Smith was someone who stood in the gap, it seemed like, for that, right? But he's confident and he's, he's, he's real and he's there for it and he's not a victim intellectually.

So in that situation, I don't have to agree with everyone. going to cry. He disarmed me. Like we had a conversation. Questions were answered. Questions were asked and we talked about it. Do I still believe that like everything there was completely the way that he said it was? No. But I don't think that I think that he believes that it is. I don't think Stephen A. Smith thinks that he's biased in any way. I might have a different opinion. I don't think he thinks he's biased in any way. And that's all you can ask for. You know, I'm not out here trying to, I'm not a fucking attack dog just looking for different black men. I need a coon leg. You know what I mean? Not like I'm really not, but it was good. It was cool. I think.

It's a great conversation. Yeah. So, you know. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business to keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support, millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. This podcast is brought to you by Carvana. Selling your car should feel like one less thing on your list, not one more. With Carvana, it is. Just go to Carvana.com and to your license

played or Vin and get a real offer down to the penny. No back and forth, no surprises, just an experience you can trust. Like your offer? Accept it. Schedule pickup and we'll come to you with a check in hand. Your car, your timeline, your terms. Visit Carvana.com to sell your car today. Pick up fees may apply. Whatever. Who else? Come on, keep them coming. Everybody look at Donnie's hair. Thank you. All right. Um. So I still don't watch the NFL after like all the cap stuff and whatnot, but it's really difficult. Like if it's on somewhere, if I'm at a bar or something and it's on, I'm definitely going to pay attention, but I like intentionally try not to watch because of that. And I like hear you all talk about it all

the time and like talk about black people in our progressiveness and like how we should have taken a stronger stand. How do you like deal with that within yourself? Like your decision to continue to watch the NFL is something that's also difficult for me. But like how do you justify it within yourself? What do you tell you? When you stop watching the NFL? It was before we met, probably. No. Or, like, right around the time we met. So probably four or five years ago, maybe.

Maybe longer than that. What team does Josh Allen play for? Josh Allen, isn't he from Minnesota? Okay, he does not watch. You don't watch. I don't pay attention to get you. Yeah, you really don't. I mean, I still, like, keep up with stuff.

I'm going to be honest with you. I'm a hypocrite. I think that's, I think that is great that you do that. We know, we both are. I watch every cowboy's game, and he's a racist owner. I know. Like, I mean, we are hypocrites. We talk about this.

See, you know, see how I can separate. Because I watched the team, but Rachel watched the worst team. I'm from Texas, and I hate the Cowboys. This nigga is the real... Not for Dallas. No. Yeah. You know what really happened?

The pandemic happened, man. And like when the pandemic happened, I wasn't watching at all. I will say that there are certain people, you know, they ask you not to watch. And then you're on FaceTime with them and you hear touchdown in the back. And you be like, nigg, okay. But the pandemic happened. And for some reason the return to sports, it's an excuse, but for some reason the return to sports was something that was comforting and calming. Like when they got back into the bubble, my stupid ass was like, God damn, the world came in if the pace was playing the jazz.

You know what I mean? And so I started watching football again too. So that's what happened. And, you know, the whole world did. We kind of talked about this on the podcast because we were talking about Rihanna doing the Super Bowl and we were talking about people moving past it. I never said that I wasn't going to watch the NFL. I understand the hypocrisy in it. You know, we talk about the NFL. We talk about, you know, their stance and the way that they have mishandled Colin Kaepernick and even the way they've

handled other issues when it comes to black people, but I still watch the game. I don't, I think When you and I have a different stance on Colin Kaepernick, I don't understand why he wants to go back and play. And we've talked about this before. We talked about it on the pod. I think when he got his settlement, I kind of was like, I'm going to keep watching the NFL. I did. I kind of was like, because I guess I applaud Colin Kaepernick. I understand he wants to be back in the league.

I understand that's what he wants. I don't necessarily understand that for him. But I applaud the other things that he's doing and the way that he has used his platform. And I see him thriving in other ways. And I guess I just kind of compartmentalize that and have moved on. Not moved on from him. No, I get it. Not moved on from him at all.

So I think there's a couple of different points that can be made here. One is the power of the collective voice. Obviously, history tells us, you know, we talked about it that. solidarity and unity and group operations is like the key to moving anything forward. I mean, solidarity is really all you have. And we have examples. We have the Montgomery Bus Boycott. We have all kinds of different examples of people being able to bring businesses to their knees through the power of their collective will.

This is what I would say about Colin Kaepernick or anybody. Colin Kaepernick's problem or struggle with the NFL is emblematic of most black Americans. Americans who I know that work at jobs. Most black Americans who I know that work at jobs feel at some point if they're not talent, and sometimes if they are, that their job is marginalizing them, overlooking them, treating them differently, or boxing them out because they're black. For any of those people, it would be a lot easier for them to leave the job, right? But the reality is, in America, the systems that we are tapped into are deeply rooted.

there's not one industry in America that's not racist. Zero percent. Every single industry in America is racist. Every single industry in this country was built on capitalism fueled by slavery and the transatlantic slave trade. And there's not one part of America's society that wasn't touched. That's the newspapers you read. That's the convenience stores that you shop at. That's the food.

That's pharmacy. That's all of it. All of it comes from the blood of Africans. 1,000%. So, you know, that's not in any way to, like, sort of strongman the argument, but it's to say that for him to continue to want to participate in the NFL, which essentially owns an American Day of the Week, is the same reason why we continue to participate in America when you boil it down.

We do because this is our life. He's been playing a game since he was 7, 8 years old. He loves football. The only place that he can play football at the level that he played it at was in the NFL. And he thinks that like... He can play football in other places. I get it's not the NFL. But if he loves the game, there are other ways to play football.

I've brought this up. Here's a thing, though. Once you've been to the Super Bowl, as the quarterback, and you want to compete at the highest level, I understand what you're saying is true. What I would say, though, is why should he have to take the loss? Well, here's, I will never understand what Colin Kaepernick went through. I will never understand that. But what I, he stood for what he believed in.

He created a movement. Then he stood up to that corporation. He won. They had to settle with him. They had to admit that they colluded against him. And Eric Green, we always forget to the name Eric Green. Eric. And he won and is taking that money and creating businesses and putting out documentaries and doing things to further the cause.

And I love that and I appreciate that. I just don't understand why he would want to go back to this corporation that wronged him, admitted to wronging him. And he wants to go back and play for them. It's not like he's going back to own a team. he's going to go back and play for them. He compared the NFL slavery. Why would you want to go back and be a slave? I just don't understand it.

Well, I mean, there's a simple answer because he wants to. Okay. And so let me tell you what I mean by that. Let me tell you what I mean by that is that there's a part of the thing that we're all talking about is the want to. Like part of what we're talking about is what you feel like you need to do. Like, part of it is the want to. Part of it is, part of it is just in my estimation, and we'll have more than to talk about it. Part of it in my estimation is just also stubbornness.

I shouldn't have to give my career up for bringing awareness to the slaughter of black people. I shouldn't have to make that trade. He shouldn't. And I also think, for me, that's part of the thing that kind of gets into my brain, because as I said and with the whole thing when we talked to Emmanuel is that like there's a laundry list of people

who have stood up for not just black people but just poor people. Anybody that had less right? And they're also a list of poor outcomes. The only way to start turning power really is to change that.

Fred Hampton is talking about wherever there's people, there's power. Yeah, but we don't But whatever there's people that want to be powerful, there's power. Can I ask you this? Yes. So if Colin Kaepernick wants to be back in the league, should we stop watching the NFL? You don't have to?

Well, I haven't. Yeah. But I'm just saying, if he can go back, if he can go back to it, can we start watching it again? No, I mean, this is my thing. My thing is, you know, I think there would have to be some, when you're doing something, and there have to be hard lines and you have to simplify things so that people understand them.

And anything that's in the weeds gives people an out because we're talking about hardship, right? If I'm going to ask you to walk to work and you work as a bus driver, I'm probably not going to walk to work. You know what I mean? So when you're looking for something like that

from people, it probably has to be a little bit more simple. But to me, I think that it's incumbent upon people with platforms to understand that his struggle to get back to his life's work is not just one man's struggle to play football again. It's one man's struggle

not to be professionally executed for leading a freedom movement. And to me, that's more important. Hey, man, I don't have any problem with watching football. At one point, I was on that, but I think there's still things that can be done

to help him get back on the field. And I just think for people to say he took a settlement, you know, he was in a workplace dispute with the NFL, the workplace dispute, he got some money. I'm glad that I don't know how much it was

or anything like that. But I just think it's important that he plays again. I do. Anybody else got questions? Let's take two more. We got one right here. Yeah.

Thanks for hosting, by the way. I appreciate that. One of the questions I have, I mean, obviously the conversation around Emmanuel Acho was very nuanced. There's a lot of stuff there. What would it take to have a conversation again in six months, nine months, 12? You know, what would it take? We talked about this. We talked about this.

Van is open to it. Yeah. I say no. And from my conversation, and I haven't talked to Emmanuel today, but from my last conversation with him, he doesn't want to either. And I just, to answer your question, I don't see it ever moving past where it is right now. And that is very evident in the way that he's responding to things on Twitter. When I talked about we took accountability and, okay, you know, there was miscommunication. Oh, it was a little intense.

Maybe Van shouldn't have said that or whatever. We did that. On his end, there's no meeting us in the middle. So I just don't ever see how there can be a meaningful. conversation unless both parties are willing to come to the table and have a genuine conversation about it and be open to how do we have this productive conversation about some of the issues we have with uncomfortable conversations. I just don't ever see any type of concession coming on his end. And I'm saying this as his friend because he likes to throw that out a lot. So does Van.

As his friend, I don't see, I don't see him doing that. I just don't. Not after the behavior I saw on the last 24 hours. So for me, it's not a big deal at all to have the conversation. I would put him back on the podcast like, or I would be down for him to come back on next week or I don't care. So, and another reason is because I don't think that I'm any better than him. Like, I worked at TMZ for nine years, basically 10 years. And in the nine years, I was at TMZ.

Look, there was a time when I first got on television, and I was happy to be there. And I was happy to be a black guy on TMZ. I was happy to have a rapper get shout out with TMZ and everybody go Like I felt like There were definitely times where you can look at me on television And be like, what's that nigga do it?

You know what I'm saying? Because you get to a place you're overwhelmed By the fact that people are paying attention to you And you Sometimes feel like Okay There's a question that you have to ask yourself if you would trade power in this town

to be depowered as a black man like if you would make that trade like if you would say hey I'll be powerful in the town if you trade that for being small and if you recognize that do you have to confront it you know and for me

I've never been weak in that in that area but there was a point where I went low yo pump your brakes and tell these motherfuckers in this room like what's up they're playing a little bit too much you know what I'm saying like make sure that they didn't they know that you are not the nigger to play with. That was the first thing. Then the second thing was, that's not enough. It was you had to be there and actually have an impact on some of the stuff.

Now, you could look at a lot of the things that they did over a course of years and say that probably didn't happen. And it doesn't seem like that. But if I told you some of the stories that weren't run or some of the things that didn't go, you know, you just have to be that person if you're one of the only black person people there. So I say, all that's a lot of to say that this to me could have, Emmanuel Acho could be fucking in a year, in two years. It could be the Acho and Umar show. It could be Acho and Umar.

Like going around. Like, I don't know what his future holds. I can't judge his soul or what he, he might be, he might, in some way, he might be doing his best. So I don't have a problem with that. But right now it's on the fuck shit. And it really doesn't seem like he wants to hear. any criticism on it or any

have any uncomfortable conversation. So it's a dub. But I would have no problem bringing them back. And no problem actually like having a conversation about what went wrong the first time. And trying to get to a better place. But both people have to do it.

And that's the problem. Yeah. I mean, cool. Run the fade, nigga. I'm just joking. It's a joke. Ah, that's a joke. Ah, that's a joke.

All right. Last question. When are we getting animal games back? Oh, wow. Donnie's been working on it. Donnie, is there an update? Stay tuned. We want to be like animal games is fucking detox from Dr. Dre.

It's a segment we could do like right now if we wanted to. No. Like we could eat like what like, Donnie, what's the hold up with animal games, dog? To be real with you. Sure. The plan is for animal games to come back in February. Oh, because we have a special treat with animal games. Exactly.

There's something in the books that we got in our back pocket that we're going to release in February. Do you know what this is? You were a part of it. What are you talking about? What are we talking? I don't know what we're talking. There's a pro-co. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

The whole thing. I forgot about that. Yeah, we're bringing it back with a bang. I have a question for you guys last and then we got to go. Do you guys have any suggestions for the show? What works? What does it? Good question.

Yeah. You've got wearing t-shirts. First, you got to take off that 49ers. Like, that's disrespectful right now. Hey, bro. You're going to let her talk? They ran. Hold on for a second.

Hold on for a second. Bro, bra. Faithful, she can't talk to you. They put Zeke at center and ran this motherfucker all over. Do it. Do it. Like, she can't talk to you about the Niners, dog. They embarrass themselves.

That's when I should have stopped watching the NFL. Was that game. Don't put the people you love at center. I love Pollard. Thank you. Yes. Hook him horns. Oh,

Acha. All right, we want to tell you guys how much we love you, how much we care about you guys as fans, and how much we're excited that the podcast has grown like it is. We'll do more little meetups like this, but we are going to one day

have a full-blown live show. And that's going to be a big deal. You know what I mean? Maybe that's what? What? Basically, we'll bring Acho back for the live show. Maybe that would be great. Yeah.

We'll definitely have a special guest. Yeah. But this has been fun. I feel so comfortable talking. I feel like we've done this before. Like, we've been doing this, right? Which is the whole feel of the entire podcast. We want you to feel like you're cozying up, listening to your favorite sibling, argue and go at it with each other.

Y'all remember the family meeting? It's funny. That was like. That was a real. Kalika. That was a real thing. Kalika. How hot was I about the family meeting?

You're pretty out about the family meeting. You didn't appreciate it. And then the thing I love about what me and Rachel get into it is we never do a post more. We get into it on a podcast and then on the next podcast, pretend like it didn't happen. And people on the ready, like, are they going to address it? Fuck you guys. We moved on. But no, this has been great.

Give yourselves a round of it. Thank you so much for being here. Yeah.