Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Higher Learning Presents: The Summit of the Sexes

Episode Date: July 19, 2023

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay are live at the Reparations Club in L.A. with friends Nina Parker, Shannon Stokes, Ian Spooner, and Walter “Geno” McGlaughlin to discuss the concept of "want" vs. "need" in relationships (6:35), personal stances on financial dynamics (28:26), and dating outside of your race (46:08). Then, the Thought Warriors hop on the mic for a quick Q&A (1:09:30). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guests: Nina Parker, Shannon Stokes, Ian Spooner and Walter “Geno” McGlaughlin Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We all appreciate everybody coming out tonight to listen to this productive and constructive conversation amongst friends. I'm going to introduce Van and Rachel first, and then they're going to introduce their special guests. So without further ado, Van Lathen Jr. and Rachel Lynn Lindsay. What's you guys? What's you guys? What's you guys?

What's in a comedy show? Now, stop, stop, stop, stop. What are your names? Embry? Your Bree? And you up. See, I was going to guess like Dan or something. You guys are sitting in the front here at the reparations club. Thank you for being here.

Thank you for your support. Y'all give it up for Sweet Booty. He don't like it. Sweet Booty Beecham. He forgot to say his full name. Y'all give it up for Sweet Booty. Why, I got to sit in the back and the reparations club. I feel you, brother.

We'll talk after that. Thank you guys for being here. Donnie Sweet Booty Beacham. Chelsea, Chloe, the Alien. Look at Chloe over there. Where's Ashley at? Ashley's right back here. Ashley's in the back.

Hey, Ashley. You guys, it's the summit of the sexes. We've been talking about this for a long time. Yes. Yeah. The day is here. The day is here. Are y'all ready?

So it's important. We want to say something real quick. This is the summit of the sexes. It's not the battle of the sexes. I see some of y'all right now and y'all been hurt and y'all, y'all waiting to see people getting to it up here. But what we're trying to do is ask questions and have conversations. You actually think that's going to happen.

We are going to start off asking questions, but I feel like there's going to be a battle. See how she always won us. But we're moderating. We brought other people to battle it out. It's true. It might be us. So all of y'all to be on the Reddit talking about me

and all of my toxic stuff, I'm not even going to name somebody. Raise your hand if you're on the Reddit. It's on the Reddit. That's okay. That is a lie. Some of y'all on it. Some of y'all on it.

But yeah, so for us, it's really just about kind of bridging the gas. happen, really seeing a lot of these issues that get overblown or blown up on social media if there are real perspectives or people just showing out. That's how I feel. Yeah. And I think this is a safe place to hash it out because we can only do so much with each other. And we thought, you know what, let's bring it to the Fall Warriors. Let's bring it to everybody else.

So without further ado, should we bring out our guests? Sure, sure, sure. I'm going to introduce my dudes one at a time. Okay, go ahead. Because I don't want them to come out together because they don't like that kind of thing. So you guys hear me talking about the playerproof crew First of all, shout out to my boy Ryan back there Ryan, say what up

That's my oldest friend In the world I don't give a fuck about that nigga Oh my god Oh my god Damn It's right stand up It's because you didn't stand up

Stand up Yeah Ryan There you go There you go Ryan Jesus Christ. I met him in first grade. That's a long time.

All right, first, my boy, Ian, playerproof crew. Ian, come out here and say what up to everybody. Look, is Ian. Ian is a newlywed. His beautiful wife, Dacia's here. Yeah, you sit wherever you want right here. We're bringing a different energy over here. Don't try to sit on this side.

Right, you're going to go ahead and introduce it. Let's do it like it's the, do a one-on-one-by-one. Okay, we can do a one-on-one. Okay. I am bringing to the stage. My, not just my sorority sister, my line sister who came all the way from Houston, H-Town, Texas, Shannon Stokes.

She's in the building. She's going to bring all the energy. We rode here listening to all the angry music to get ready for this. We are ready to go. She's an attorney as well. University of Texas in the building. My line's just Shannon Stokes.

I got to start. One won't beat those. Yeah, Ian, you got to, Ian is a pharmaceutical. He got to make a lot of money. Like, we're going to give people a whole LinkedIn. Relaxed. Yeah.

He tried to outdo me. Gino! Walter Gino McLaughlin from Baton Rouge, Louisiana. He is a social community activist dude. He a Kappa. Look at him. Look at him. Look at him.

You're right here, man. Sit down. Say what up to everybody. How are you doing, bro? Good to see you. What's going on? I see. That's the whole squad, man.

Fear them. Fear them. Well, I'm not done. Fear them. Because coming to the stage, last see, last but not least, none other than Nina Parker. You are familiar with her.

I could list out a laundry list of all the things that she represents. Van may have known her first, but she's my friend today, and she's here to represent also a fellow soror from Delta Sigma Theta Sorority Incorporated. That's right. Yes, I know Van first, but you keep in touch. And we're ready to go. Let's go. It started.

I get, Nina put me on. I'm not even a lie. Before you get started, Nina put me on. I was at TMZ. It was like a lion's den of angry, weird whites. And Nina took me under her wing. I'm serious.

I probably would not be here right now. I'm not for Nina Park. Give it up for Nina Park. I need to put me. That's true. I got to tell you guys a story really quick. The TMZ tours had not started yet. Van had started doing the TMZ tours.

I don't think he even remembers this story. So they were taking the staff to like, do test runs. And at the time, I had been on the show for maybe like a couple of years. And I remember Van goes, how does it feel to be on TV every day? Yeah. And I come up to him and I say this sometimes because I'm like, how you feel now? Because he was just, he came in, he had all this really good energy and people weren't speaking.

No one was talking to me. People don't speak when you first start there. Yeah. So I was like, all right, black man. Like, let's have a conversation about how to get it on. over here. And sometimes when I would get like a little bit outside of myself, she'd be like, come on. We don't need you to dance for them. All right. The playoffs are here and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul

predicts. Predict the spread, total points, and even the game winner. Sign up and get a $25 bonus. Offered by Fandual Prediction Markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant. 18 plus. Bonus is non-withdrawable and expires seven days after receipt. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See terms at banduel.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash herms. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters.

Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin. every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Trimphia, proper training is required. Tremfaya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis.

Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Tramphiara radio.com. Okay, look, a lot of things that we could talk about, but I want to start with some of the recent conversations we've had on the show, specifically around wants and needs. Rachel, remember this conversation that we, that we, that we, that could I not? Meg the Stallion said that she did not need a black man, but that she was. wanted a black man, want over need. And Rachel, do you remember your perspective on this?

Of course, you do. Yeah. And to add to it, you just sent this in today. Kiki Palmer just got on stage and said that she didn't need a man. She needs a back. Okay. Now, I don't have a problem. I think we're focusing too much, and I said this on the podcast,

we're focusing too much on the words. I think it is beautiful to want something. I think that it is beautiful to desire to choose that. You make that choice. There's power in that. And you disagree with me. I did. I did.

I think the need is very important. I think the need demonstrates intent and what the goals are. Fellas, how do y'all feel like, how do y'all feel about not being needed? Y'all come or take on or leave it. I need to go fight war, whatever. But they don't want you all around. How does that feel? I'm trying to decide how toxic I need to be.

No. So. Oh, my gosh. I'm saying. Your true self. I feel like that's why we're here, right? Take the mask off. With the lean bat dog, that was weird, bro.

Yeah, did you see it? I was trying to get comfortable. So for me, I disagree, right? So I definitely believe that I do need a black woman. I need a woman, period, right? First of all, just in terms of community, none of this exists without y'all, right? And so this community, this space that we're in right now, which is really dope, right, really vibrant. It's because of the kinship that we share. It's because of the relational

value that we have within our community. And so even if we're talking about a relationship with myself and a woman, I need that woman, right? I need her support. I need her. Like my days don't be like, if I'm with a woman, I'm with you. Right. And so you start, you set the tone for my day. You set the tone for how the household runs, right? And so I can't even, I can't see within the context of relationship, me devaluing that. And I'm not saying that's what you're doing, right? I just can't see myself devaluing that. And then also, too, just in terms of relationship,

I can't see myself not needing a woman because, you know, I need a woman. You feel what I'm talking about? You feel what I'm talking about? That's because y'all don't be knowing what to do. But you're, you're man. I mean, we're being honest, like, y'all don't be knowing what, y'all don't know how to do stuff sometimes. Look, look, you're man enough to say that you need a woman.

I'm man enough to say the same thing. I think about songs like from Anita Baker, like giving you the best that I got. Oh, he's R&B. On that song, the first line is, is there anything I can give you? Come on. Because of what you've given to me. Just sing it. Don't sing, you know.

We ain't go to that. No, listen. But real talk. But that opening line right there, like, it's so powerful of the era of women. You know, that song came out, what, 86, 87. So the women thought differently then. And I think women prepared a household. prepared a family. They were business women.

They were so many different things. And men value that. We value that. So I think this generation, you bring it up Kiki and Megan, they are examples for the new generation. So what are they sitting? What tone are they sitting? You know, I don't think that's cool across the board. What tone? I mean, these are powerful, successful, amazing women. I think there's there's. Yeah, Anita Baker is too. When she's not arguing baby face.

but I think these are women who you know it is things are different and I think more than ever there have been blurred lines when it comes to roles I don't think there's ever been a time where there have been you know a lot of the switching of the roles and where it hasn't been as big of a deal either you know I know there are I know a lot of women who take care of the household and the man stays home and I think whatever decision you decide to make within your home is your is your business so I think when we see men who are talking about like Kiki's man who leans into like, well, she needs to be a traditional woman. He's not a traditional man.

So if you want to have, if you want to lead, be a leader. Does he use those words like, she needs to be a traditional woman? He didn't have to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What he was saying, he didn't have to.

He said, you a mom. He was playing into certain stereotypes that are placed on a man. Yeah. I mean, he wants her to stick to a certain role, but he's not. Do you, do you feel that what do you think about specifically what Megan and Kiki had to say, want versus Ney? Did you have a problem with Kiki or Megan saying that they don't need a man? Because what Megan said was, I don't need a man, but we want you.

And see, I thought that that was beautiful the way that she phrased it. I think that people are taking it too literal. I think that, you know, I am a believer we're not meant to do life alone. So I do believe that we all need each other. But it's obvious, like what Nina was saying that in today's society, we've been taught our generation to be able to take care of ourselves. But that is, you know, I believe in. you know, self-actualization, right? Maslow's hierarchy of needs. And love is on there, right? But at

first, it's like safety, you know, there's like three other levels before you get there. So it's like, you have to have a baseline level of being self-sufficiency and being able to take care of yourself before you can get to the point that you are loving yourself and offering your love to someone else. I don't think that you should approach partnership from a place of need. And I think that that's what they were trying to explain. Like, they can take care of themselves and they are choosing the men that they're choosing. That's how I interpret it. You have to consider the source, right? You have to consider what somebody is going through and what they, we all go through phases. Megan is young. She's dating. She's fresh out of a long-term relationship. She's single right now. She's giving off

single-girl energy, single-boss girl energy. He is clearly going through something in her relationship. So right now her focus is probably her child and her bag, the things that she can control. So I think you have to consider your source. If you're speaking to somebody who's married, that may be a different conversation. Do we do, do, do any of us need somebody or, you know, probably not. We could probably all be fine. I think we actually do need. No, I don't, I don't agree with that. I think could, could we live this life without somebody else? Have people done it? Sure. But so I do agree with the statement that do I need this? Probably not. But if some, do I want it so bad that it becomes kind of a need? Yes. But so, so imagine we together, right? And I say to you. Wait a minute now.

No, you know, follow me now for a second, right? So imagine I turn to you. You're the way to Gina. Imagine I turn to you. Almost like toxic Martin, right? When he looked at Gina, he was like, damn, Gina, I will marry you. Imagine me turning to you and say, you know, you are nice to have, you know, but I don't really need you. You're nice to have, though.

Why does the framing have to be so black or white? Why do you guys take it like a hair, nigger? That's not what it is. That's not what she said. So this is what I'll. this is what I'll say is the reason why I look at it as kind of like a I look it through a different lens so obviously in your singular interpersonal relationship right everything is a want or a need besides you know food and all of that stuff right but if we're thinking about what we want to do as a collective not black person but black people the question then becomes what are the what's the calculus to that like what's the the calculus to us having the most stable, most, the safest, the most economically sound, the most vibrant community. And that to me begins with the black family. That begins with

the unit of people that can rely on each other in the house. And so to me, the need, sisters can do it by themselves. And unfortunately, if we're being honest, they've had to do it by themselves far too often. But the need comes from, we need. need to have a situation where black young black boys understand the value of their mothers and their sisters and they're taught that by men. We need to have situations where nobody, where women have someone to be there for them postpartum, where they, where they have someone to be there with them while they're pregnant. Like those things are needs that make us better. And to say that we don't need them, but we want them, to me, sometimes undercuts the seriousness of the situation

that we're in in America. If I was going to throw that in, that's kind of what I would say. And I would just say that's why I say it's more powerful to want because we're all agreeing that, you know, we're in a different place in society and the way that the dynamic is with men and women.

And we don't necessarily need that. I get what you're saying. We don't need, like we could do it on our own, but because we don't need it, but we want it, doesn't that sound more powerful? No. And also, it doesn't make headlines. It doesn't make headlines when a man says it

because I mean, how many rap lyrics do we hear all the time who are saying like they don't need women. And they won't. And they won't. But what I'm saying is when women say, yeah, we speak up about it, but I don't think it makes as much headline at all.

But when a woman makes those types of statements, you know, and we talk about the black family, there's no, we don't know if Meg or Kiki will end up with a black man. I mean, no, they might not. But I mean, I guess what I'm saying to that situation, I'm not going to, but I guess what I'm saying to that situation is it's not about

whether or not they will end up with a black man. It's about, to me, what's my vision of a healthy black community, right? And so to be real with you, and we talked about this on the podcast, for far too long, men have devalued, debased, and subtracted themselves away from black women. We know that, right? And then the songs, that happens a lot. I will say this, though, if there is a guy who is either speaking extemporaneously or in an interview and he takes a direct shot of black women. I don't know why the beat changes it because

they do it every time they drop, but the retribution is swift. And I'm telling you right now, if that's an interview, let's say that that's an interview with, I don't know, give me somebody else on May's level, not the nigga that went to jail. But anyway, if that's, and he says, you know, we don't really, huh? If it was Drake, the world with the eyes of the ladies in the world would bleed if Drake goes, you know, I want, I want a black woman, but I don't need one. That is going to be a nuclear bomb. She didn't say black men. You got she, if he would, if he would have said, if Drake did an interview where he says, yeah, which by the way, I think Drake has done songs where he says, I only love my bed and my mama.

Like Drake often says he doesn't need. Well, she was at the essence fest. So she was talking to niggas. Well, let me tell you something. For the way that people were talking to Meg during this trial, they're lucky she didn't say other things. work. You're lucky. That's all she said.

Because it's a lot of black men who were not defending Meg publicly, public figures. I'm just saying, Meg would have a reason to feel the way she feels in this moment on that stage. And I'm surprised she didn't get on the pulpit and say more. Yeah, but she was with a boy. She was not with a man in that scenario. And he's a straight clown.

But in respect, there's a lot of men that would definitely stand up for Meg. in terms of what happened to her. So that doesn't give her an opportunity to just go out there. Well, she could say what she wants to say. But in saying that, that doesn't mean there's no backlash that's not, you know, that's deserved. I just, you know. Well, I'm just saying that she has a right to the back, the support for her, in my opinion, publicly, was way more heavy on black women and women in general.

The problem is. And I'm like, yeah, absolutely. Her voice is so powerful. She's, she's so many young women are looking up to her. And again, I use that Anita Baker. reference in terms of talking about back in the day, she is now, like women like Meg Dostagian are those figures today. So there are young women looking at her and what she's saying, and they're going to look at that like, that's the way I need to be. And ultimately, that is to the

detriment of our community. I just, I guess I just feel like we're just missing something. We'll move on to the next topic because we have other things to cover. But if Meg has stood up there and said, we don't need y'all and kept it moving, it would have been a total, I could see everything that y'all were saying. So she's saying. saying you can be self-sufficient, you can be independent, you can be all these things, but we still want y'all, we still desire to have y'all in our life despite everything else. I think, I don't, can I be, can I be all the way real? The biggest thing that bothers me about it is we all know it's not true.

Like, we know y'all don't mean it. We know that it's a rallying cry, that it's something that made, we know y'all don't mean it. Because it's part of it. Like, we, we, we. Like we, I love the, that you guys don't need. Tell us what we need, man. Look, look, look, no, no, no. What I'm telling you, what I'm telling you is this.

And it's, it's interesting, right? Because I make my, my whole life, I have conversations. And so in a conversation, you listen to somebody or you, you watch somebody, like time after time, after time after time, do a thing. And then they turn around and they say that the thing that they're doing, they're doing it for a completely different reason than why you. you see them doing it. So I listen to black women all week, day long, talking about how much they need black men to step up, how much they need black men to be present, how much they need black men to be involved, how much they need black men to be economically, emotionally, and spiritually healthy. And then by that same flip side, and then what I do is I go to other black men and I say,

hey, your sisters need you. They need you to do these things. When there is a tape of of a young man assaulting a woman, I'm like, that's our fault. They need us. When women can't get what they need, economically, whatever, we have to be better. They need us. Then, after all of that, of watching that of being emotionally and intellectually informed by black women, the whole that is left in their lives because of the absence of black men, then it's like, but we don't.

And so, like, to me, I'm not in any way trying to speak for black women. I apologize if it came out like that. But what I'm saying is when y'all do speak, I hear y'all. And I hear what you say. And then when the pivot comes, I'm like, I don't think that's constructive. And I understand that that might be the way she feels and she has an emotional sort of edict to feel that way. But still, I'm like, that's not where we're trying to go.

That's not where I'm trying to bring the black men that I lead. I'm not trying to bring them to a situation where a black woman is a take or leave. It makes my life better. Nah, I want you to need to. choose her and I want you to need to be better. Kalika's here right now. Like Kalika's in the back, right? And we have been,

we have, we have had a relationship that's had high highs and really low lows. But I think sometimes the thing that keeps us together is this feeling, um, that like this jingo puzzle makes sense that we're supposed to be together. And that's kind of when I, when I felt that from her, it's just like, it's a,

it's a, it's, it was emotionally unfamiliar to me. Did you feel insulted by what she said? No, because I don't need her. No, I'm just joking. No, I didn't feel insulted. I just felt. Okay, in listening to what you just said, everything, you did feel insulted.

You did. It feels like you were. Now, now who's speaking for who? But also, we're listening. But I was saying also, I mean, everything that you're saying is, is all the reasons why she's saying, if, we're saying black men,

if the black men don't, have those things where they're right within themselves. She is saying, we don't need you if it requires us to sacrifice ourselves, right? So she's saying if I'm already here where I'm able to provide for myself, I have, you know, and I'm seeking the emotional support, just like what you had mentioned. That's what she's saying. Like, I am taking care of myself, right? But what we need is for you to step it up, just like you're saying. And I think that's where it's coming from, right? Isn't that inherent, though? Like, we are born to take care of ourselves, right?

So we show up here as individuals, first and foremost, right? And so whether it's entering a relationship or even it's just the community, we are here as individuals first and foremost. So we know that we can take care of ourselves. We don't need, none of us technically need each other, right, to be human, right? My existence does not depend on whether or not, you know, you're there or not. However, the value that is inherent is also, I mean, as humans, right, we are relational. And so I need human connection, black, white, whatever.

I need human connection, but also within this relationship that we share, this kinship that we share in this community. I need y'all. And in a relationship, black woman, I need you, right? And I also want to be wanted too. Now, I didn't take it personal. Definitely didn't take it personal, but, because she wasn't talking about me because she would need me too. But my point is, but if we, jokes, but my point is, though, within this dynamic that we share, I want to be needed. And if it's if it's off at all, I'm gonna choose somebody that does need me in some sort of way, not monetarily, not, you know, she needs me.

Yeah, she needs me. Yeah, she needs me. Y'all just need to be needed. That's what I feel like I want to be needed. For sure. I want to be needed. Y'all, I feel like men really need to be told that they are needed. I feel like that is true. The, the framing of that, you really need to hear that. But speaking as a black woman, I felt like Meg was a little bit. I, you know, and I can only speak for myself and the black women that I know and that I communicate with for me a little bit. If it sounded like she was talking from a place of personal and maybe from disappointment, because I think, you know, Van, when you were talking about the community and how black women need black men to do all of the things that you listed, I can also list a lot of instances where they just didn't show up in droves. They don't.

And where black women had to. And the saying like black women have to do everything didn't come from no place. It came from a place where a lot of. times the only people that were speaking up that were taking a stand were black women. And if we're speaking specifically about Meg's situation, black women believed her from jump in the majority of because obviously there are people who didn't. But there were a lot of black men who I would see what we need to see the evidence. We need to hear this. Or there were clear things that just happened where people still were hesitant to support. And I'm only speaking from her instance because

she's the one who talked about it. But I think a lot of times when you get disappointed in general, you start to be like, okay, I don't need this. This is something I want because when I needed you, you did not show up for me. It's a survival tactic. It's a survival tactic. I'm going to put a little vulnerability out there right now. Ryan, Gino and Ian. All right.

Y'all all know the relationships that I had with women back in Louisiana. Black ladies. Very clear. How did these women treat me? Which one? I was about to. So let me be real. I was a guy, I was much bigger than I was right now.

I, I was not the niggins. And to be honest with you, if I, to be honest with you, I'm not, I'm just being for real. I got treated like shit. There was always some other dude that was better, that was in a better situation, that was more, like, I'm the kind of guy that I would study with you. I would help you with your homework. I would do whatever I had to do. Persistence, persistence. I would wait you out through a couple of these capa niggas.

You're aware. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? Like, I would wait you out through a couple of these capa niggas and do the thing. That doesn't give me the right to for the rest of my life, like, look at black women and say that they ain't shit. I'm sorry. Like, I have to.

Exactly. I'm not, I'm not saying that. But what I'm saying is I understand that there is disappointment. I understand that things like that happen. But I'm telling you that, like, I think a lot of, a lot of men get into the situation to where they, they really, they keep that energy.

They keep the energy of, you know, when I wasn't on, there was always somebody better. When I didn't have this, there was always somebody better. And then when they get on, they batter black ladies for a long,

long time. And what I'm telling you is for me personally, I understand that people might have been disappointed with one black man after another black man after another black man. But like, there's a, there's a degree to it. I don't understand why we condemn.

continue to judge people by like the sins of past people because everybody could do that. So I don't think it's just coming from disappointment. I think it's also like our generation. We're all generally the same age. And we are the generation that is focused on trying to break generational curses, right? So it's like I can say, you know, on both sides of my family, there are marriages, strong male figures and female figures who still told me be able to take care of yourself. And that was out of need because in the 80s and 90s, little black girls.

little black girls. Like, we were taught we needed to be able to take care of ourselves. So I agree. I think this conversation is important because I hear what you're saying. Like, I think Megan was coming from a place of like a flex. But I could see where you're saying that it's counterproductive. But that's something that we have to unlearn because we have a lifetime of being told, get the best grades, get the house, pay off your loans, do everything to be able to take care of

yourself and then find your partner. So we do all these things and we're trying to find our partner. Like I have a friend who told me she feels like she's being punished for taking care of herself. You know, so like what is that saying? You know, it's like if you were your sisters, your daughters, don't you want them to be able to take care of themselves? Absolutely. You know what I mean? Right to the next topic.

Yeah, there's power dynamics. Bread winners. Say that that was a natural segue. Ian and Gino, would you guys be able to be in a situation with a woman that made more money than y'all told y'all niggas clean your shit up and come in here and make some breakfast? Clean it. You want to take that first? Get to work. Get to work.

Grown man, so first of all, don't talk to me like that. However, however, you know, in this changing dynamic that we have, right, with women. You can sound like Steve Jobs. In the changing cultural landscape. I want to see where he's going with this. The reality is, you know,

we're in modern times, right? And so I know how to take care of myself. What does that mean, right? I know how to do dishes. I know how to do everything that a woman, the old labels that women are given, right? And so when I enter into a relationship, guess what? Half the things that I already did for myself, I'm going to continue to do those things within the context of relationship. Why?

Because it's also going to lighten the load for her. There are no expectations that I have on her that I don't already have for myself, right? So when it comes to the monetary thing, which is the tricky part, I'm going to keep it real. Keep it funky. Get to it. Keep it funky. Because, look, you know, we all see the memes. We all see the toxic memes, right?

So I don't know if it's Justin or, you know, what's the poet girl? It's a whole bunch of toxic, you know. I think, I think that women can't have it both ways, right? You can't have it both ways in the sense that you tell a man that your only value is tied to the amount of money that you make. But at the same time, give me all your money. at the same time, we really don't need you, right? And so if I'm going to, if I'm expected to be this modern man that is, that is conscious of, you know, these shared, these shared responsibilities,

then guess what? You also will have to come into modern times as well and share a little bit as other. What if she's making more? So you get into it. If she's making more, that's cool, that's cool. You use a scenario of us before. I'm good with that. I'm good with that, right?

If I have to be good with that, right? And shrink a bit of my ego, which is tough to do. If I got to tuck my chain in, right? Would it hurt your ego if your woman made more than you? It wouldn't hurt my ego at all. I mean, I do pretty well. So if my woman's making more than me, we up. We up.

Straight up. So, I mean, my wife does, you know, she's a career woman. She's a nurse, and we have a business, and she helps me run that business. And I actually have a few businesses. But in that space, I need her help with that. So, but if she had, well, we have another thing that we're investing in for her. That will be her own thing. And I hope it is one of that makes us even more money.

But if she made more money to me, okay with that. It doesn't make me feel small at all, no, because I'm, again, it's not like I'm broke. So if I'm making, if I make 20,000 and my woman's making 300,000, I could still be with her because I can learn something from her. But in the sense of where we are in terms of where we're living right now, if my woman made more than me, I would be happy with that.

I have not had this experience at all. I have not had this experience at all. I know things about it. I have not had this experience at all with men. Every man that I have dated within the last couple years has had a major issue with my success and the money that I make. And I'm not even trying to get on here and breath.

How did you flex on him? Did you flex on him? Well, you mean what I flex? When I roll up in my car, is that a flex? Yeah, she's supposed to have a way. She doesn't have what she hide. The thing is, it's like I have a lot and I've worked really hard for it. So I'm not going to hide it.

You should. So it's, I'm not hiding. You should. But I'm not, when I flex, that doesn't mean I'm coming in by walking in the date, throwing money on the, on the, but I've had men be like, okay. You need to be able to confident men. That's the bottom line. Yeah, I think it, I think.

is so easy. I think secure men are very hard to find these days. You're right. There's a lot of lame-ass niggas out here. I see them all the time, so it's true. But, you know, if you were someone that's confident, you know, I'm not trying to gas myself, but I'm a confident guy. I'm not really insecure about anything. I know I'm not perfect. I know I have flaws. But none of those, none of my flaws make me feel small. So in that, I don't care. Like, if you make more money than me, I'm still happy. Have you been with a woman who made more than you? How did you handle it? Okay, that's what I want to Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. I remember she did. I did and she made way more money than me. And again, I had a good time. We took trips. It didn't stop me from working. But, okay, but dig deeper there though. I mean, yes and no, right?

It didn't necessarily make you feel the type of way, but it would, I think you would say that it motivated you. Sure. It made you go harder because you didn't want to be. Oh, I know who we're talking about. Oh, for sure. Yeah, relax. Yeah. Relax.

Baby, I love you. I got more. Relax. She should not be here. name, right? Come on, man. She who should not be named. But no, I mean.

The world's seeing this, right? Oh, shit. Whether or not you felt less than, I agree with you there, but, but, but you felt something that, that provoked you to get your shit together, right? Again, it motivated me. Like I said, if my woman's making more than me, if, if I gave the scenario about 20,000 or 300, I want to learn from her. Yeah.

Like, I'm big enough to say, okay, my woman is this business woman. She's smart. She has these ideas. Teach me. You know, put me on game. Oh, yeah, teach me. Listen, if I'm making If I don't make any money

And she's making that type of money I need to learn something I know this is a later topic But to teach me the potential I mean, we gotta teach each other We teach each other We teach each other There are things that I know

That you don't know I'm gonna put you on game That's vice versa Absolutely Shannon you're out here In the dating world What has your experience been You are a career

You're an attorney You've been practicing for 15 plus years What has your experience been like dating men And is do you find the aeans who are excited about that, that you make more? Or has it been difficult? I mean, I'll be honest. I generally try to stick to men who make about what I make because it's just

easier. You know, I'm not looking for someone to provide. I plan to work and be able to provide for myself forever, right? But I know there's a guy dated. I'm an ambitious person, so I like mindset. And I know that there was a guy dated who was like, I could make more, but I just don't want to work those many hours. There's other things I'm more interested in. That was unattractive to me because it's like if I come home from a long day of work and I'm just like, man, these are all the things I had to deal with. To be like, well, that's why they pay you the big bucks. Like that's not attractive. You know what, we don't have similar mindsets.

But for me, like, it also depends on like what the person values. Like I value security above all else. I want to reach out and touch my money. I want to be able to see it. I want to know. I have a perpetual fear of being broke. I'm not going to be. It's unreasonable.

But that's why like I seek partners where I know that it's like regardless of what he makes, I like, who I can tell. It's like if I were to lose my job and he had to go out there and, you know, wash cars, he would make sure we were taking care of. So I like hustlers. That's what I look for. Legal hustlers. But, you know, it's someone like for me, I want someone who, when I think provider, I mean

someone who's going to get it done. Like, out of emotional support. Emotional support. And then also just someone who's like smart with their money because also, you know, as an attorney, like I've met, you know, six figure dudes who are not wise with their money and they're living in a bunch of debt. So the other thing is like older women will often say if a man isn't generous, him making more doesn't really matter, right?

Because it's like he's got all the money. But if he doesn't have a generous heart and he's not using it for the both of you, then what good is it doing you? See, for me, my experience has, I understand that I'm in a very privileged position monetarily wise. And I don't expect my partner to make what I make. Like I don't have the ex. I would like it, but I don't need it.

You know, it would be nice. But I've met very few men who have been able to match me financially. And that's okay. They had the problem with it, not me. And also because I'm also in TV, they had issues with the company I kept as far as like circles I would be in or people that I met. Like, they'd be like, well, you could, you know, you could run into this person. And I would take digs. On the, you know.

Yeah. Like, you could run into the person at this party. And there was insecurity about that. I've literally met men. We've met, maybe they didn't know who I was. As soon as they go on my Instagram, they start acting funny. As soon as they see a photo with something. Yeah, but I'm telling you it's happened more often than not.

It is very common. And if they come to my house, if they see, I have two cars. It's like, oh, you got, you know, it's like they start, I've literally had men start talking about, oh, I don't have this kind of outfit to wear it to a red carpet. I'm like, we haven't even been on a date. Who told you you you need a red carpet outfit? So let's talk about why it's common. And let's do a little deconstruction by taking the Kiki Palmer situation.

Okay. So Kiki Palmer, Darius Dalton, he says it's the outfit though you are mom, right? Says that. Out of line. When I saw a lot of the women's criticisms of him, a lot of them had to do with the fact that she takes care of him. So and we're lying to ourselves if we didn't see. We're lying to ourselves if we didn't say, if we didn't read, you're sitting up here on Kiki Palmer's internet using Kiki Palmer's thing and saying that.

Now, let's do this. Let's do this. Let's flip that dynamic. Let's say that he is a huge star and she is the mother of his children. He's grinding on Rihanna. If a man comes and says, hey, just to let you know, he takes care of you so you should not be able to say anything about the way he comports himself. We're not going for that. That pays the cost to be the boss.

And let me tell you why that. I see. Oh, they got a reconvening. Look at it. I got reconvening. So let me tell you, let me tell you something about why everything that we're talking about is so common. It's because, like, men and women are socialized differently. And that socialization doesn't just exist with men.

It exists with women. I don't, I can't, y'all don't like a do-nothing nigger. Y'all like you, it is, any. But I'm telling you, hold on, hold on, any situation, let's just take celebrity anecdotal stuff, let's not even go to data. Any situation where a man, a woman is taking care of a man, you're going to get Chris Judd it, you're going to get Kevin Federline, you're going to get Casper Smarty, you're going to get all of that. Famous men, marry women, who we don't know who they are all the time. The situation is there's a societal expectation from men, and

men have that expectation of themselves. And if we're being honest, women have that expectation of men. Absolutely. And a lot of the patriarchy that we talk about, if we are going to dismantle it, we have to be serious about dismantling it in an even killed and very straightforward way. If every single person is valued for what they bring to a relationship because of who they are and how much they put into it, then we got to let the bus drivers off the hook. we got to let the librarians off the hook

and we got to do all of that. And as much as we say, the reason why those men a lot of times are bothered by you is because they think you are bothered by them. It's because they don't live in a society where it's okay to be with a woman that makes more money than you.

Where it's okay, you said that you had a guy, you're super ambitious. He wasn't ambitious. That wasn't, that was, you didn't like that, right? Right. But the thing is, is because, you know, mentioning Kiki's situation where people are saying, you know, she takes care of you. It's, but, you know, which I don't agree with.

But the thing is, is if you're not providing, so there's an older woman that said to me once that it's like, you need, you know, intellectual, engagement, physical, and emotional, right? So, and I guess here we would talk about the fourth, which is financial. So it's like if you're not providing financially, which is its own thing, what else are you bringing to the relationship? We don't know what else he's bringing to the relationship. That's not true. That's not true. What else is he in not example that you gave because he went from there to the bus show? We literally saw a video where she is walking into like this, people don't understand.

This changed in a couple of weeks. There was a video where she is walking into to do a late night show and she's all draped in her gown. And he's behind her holding the baby. That's right. holding the baby and keeping the baby and doing all of that stuff while Kiki goes out to be Kiki. It was never explored what he brought to the relationship. He said something that he shouldn't have said in public. It was very, very stupid.

And I think that it was a reductionist attitude that he had about her. But the fact that he was that what was said was this sort of financial domination of him that he couldn't or shouldn't have said it. And now because he said that, that automatically means he does nothing for their relationship. relationship that comes from the that comes from the construct that what he should be doing is taking care of her financially can i tell you why it came up sure it's not the fact that he was jealous that she was at usher and she looked good that's not what from the women that i've talked to that's not what bothered us i don't even think if he was jealous and had a conversation with her about it we would have a problem we had a problem with the fact that he got on

social media and made their personal situation but that they should have worked out personally because couples go through dumb shit. And if you're feeling away about her because let's not forget Kiki has had the glow up of the century because she went from him posting pictures of her and she, you know, she was a lot, looked a lot different than she looks now and she is embracing that. This is a lot deeper and women can see it. This has nothing to do with the fact that she's at Usher. It has everything to do with the fact that she is coming into her own as a different type of woman.

And he is putting that business on social media. And because he wanted to make a fool of her, we made a fool of him. So this is what I would say about this is what I'll say to that. I feel that. What I would say is the only retort I would have is that rappers that are with these ladies, these ladies go on the internet and complain about these niggas all the time publicly. They do it all the time. Like I was there for nine years.

Like I've covered it. I've seen women that we never know. We've never heard of. We don't know who they are. Go, this dude is a shitty father. This dude is a shitty husband. This dude was out with this woman. This dude was doing this.

I've seen a situation where there is a, like, a hip-hop star that gets with another lady hip-hop star. And his wife or his girl that's from back in the day that has his kid, is mad about it. And it goes everywhere. Nobody comes and says, he's taking. care of you, shut the fuck up. Like, nobody does that. And the reason why is because it wouldn't make any sense. Because

the way people look at it is that's the way that's supposed to go. Well, they say that? They say it all the time, man. No, no, hold on. Hold on. I don't, I don't hear women saying that. Men would say that because men would be, men would say that because men would be like, oh, okay, book, I don't hear women going, oh,

girl, you got it going for yourself. Don't worry about what is it. But when it's on the other side. But you're talking about men who were caught in circumstances, right? A lot of times when these women are blasting these men, it's because he was cheating, he was out doing something. Well, the examples that you used were like, oh, he. No, no, no, what I'm saying.

But Kiki wasn't cheating and she wasn't, she wasn't doing. You might be in a video. He might be up on somebody. Like, it's not all the time, not all the time. But the only thing I'm saying is that like, like, I feel what everybody's saying, but there is a reality here. And I am for destroying it all. I am for, hey, this is your person.

This is your person. I am for, you. meet somebody, whatever. But I do feel like sometimes we get a head of esteem of righteousness and like, and I do it too. We get ahead of esteem of righteousness and we forget

that when you said earlier, like we're told to be needed, it's not that we're told to be needed. We're told directly that if we're not needed, then we ain't shit. Like that the last thing you can be in life is a man that nobody can rely on. Is it ain't doing no do it, not doing it man, right?

And so you bring that with you. And a lot of times you start to feel like when you do become that nigger, that that validates every single way that you can act and everything that you can put somebody through. And there's also an expectation that the man is going to make this money. Historically speaking, and I think the guys that, you know, and I can't relate, but I think the guys that are fearful, right, the guys that you're dating, the guys that you guys are talking about, they waiting for a mad day to come, right? They wait in their brains. And they might be off base, but I think in their mind, they waiting for Mad Day to come.

What's Mad Day? The day was you throw it back in his face. Y'all like the day when she throws it back in his face. You're familiar with that term. That's what we call Louisiana. My daddy used to say, Aye, boy, now with Mad Day come. You know what I'm saying?

I thought everybody said that. That's a real thing. Mad Day could be Monday through Sunday. Absolutely. It could be any day. Pick a day. And so I think that. that's what they're fearful of, right? And so it shows up in probably some weak ways, right,

and some very insecure ways, but that's really what they're exhibiting. It's trauma, it's fear, you know. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphaya offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Trimphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tramphaya, proper training is required. Tremfaya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight

them and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramfaya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Tramphia Radio.com. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business to keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more.

Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. Rachel, you can introduce the next topic. Okay. Interracial relationship. Let's talk about it. Let's talk about it. Let's talk about it.

Anyways, we talked a little bit about this on us, some of the sexes, and I particularly spoke about a conversation to Shannon and I had. We talked about what appears to be a double standard when a black man dates a non-black woman versus when a black woman dates a non-black man. I see Nina nodding her head over here,

so I'm going to you first. Do you think it's a double standard? And do you think that if there is a double standard, do you think that it's warranted? I think again, we're in this really interesting place, right? Because when I was growing up, I only ever imagined myself with a black man. All my friends wanted to be with black men. Even my friends who weren't black wanted to be a black men.

Like, black men were highly desired. And that's where I saw myself. My parents were still married. I was like, I'm going to give me a black man. And I will say that has changed for me. And what I have noticed is so I date every race. I don't discriminate. Like I live in Los Angeles.

And let me say, if you only date black men, you're not going nowhere. So you got to expand your horizons in Los Angeles. I can't speak on other places. But in Los Angeles, the dating culture is very different. So you have to expand your horizons if you want to active, to me, in my opinion, if you want to actively date. And I will say when I'm out with men who are not black, black men have a problem with it, majority of the time, but they will be with friends who are with women of other races, and it's not a problem.

But I will say, like, I have literally, I'm not even joking. I went to sushi with a white man. There was a black man next to us with a white woman, and he said something to me. He was, he was like, really? And I was like, really? What? Really to you, sir. That was a joke.

He was not joking. He was not joking. I am dead serious. That might have been his manager or something. something like that. But it was, it was so hilarious and ironic that that happened. But, and I see it, you know, in social media where I think there are, you know, they say, oh, well, if it's a black woman with a man who's of another race, we're being fetishized.

But I don't feel like that fetish conversation comes up when it's black men dating other races. And I don't have a problem with it. What I have a problem with is just saying, like, if I was up here and I was like, I'm never dating black men again, that would be an issue. And I think a lot of times when we hear black men talking. about other race dating other races that's fine but a lot of times when they talk about it it's to bash black women and that's the problem black women have you don't have to bash us if you're

seeking something else leave us out of it yes i've never uh seriously dated a white girl or any other well i've dated a few other girls outside of different races but i've never seriously dated a woman outside of being black like i love black women black women is what i love the most at the same time my thoughts on these on this has changed a lot over the years years with my evolution. My brother's married to a white girl. One of my good friends is, one of my good friends, best friends, is married to a white girl as well. Well, they're not married, but they have a kid together and they're together. So I have no problem with it now. I mean, growing up, I'm like, man, you need black man, he's a black woman, whatever, whatever. And because of definitely being from the

South with race being such, you know, the way it is, you know, you have these stigmas. But of course, being a mental globalist essentially trying to expand that thought, I'm okay with, you know, I've learned that it's actually okay to be in interracial relationships. I think there's a lot of benefits there. At the same time, you have to understand what comes. What benefits?

Well, what I'm saying is, you have to like social security. No, what I'm saying is there are benefits. Hey, we know they got some benefits from folks. I mean. No, what I mean is there are, you know, in terms of benefits, you have some benefits. I'm saying all the benefits.

No, what I'm saying? No, what I'm saying? No, you just mentioned in California, living in Los Angeles, you have, that's an option. Otherwise, you have a lot smaller pickings to choose from. So there's a benefit in having more options to having a person, you know, and then these people may, I mean, look, we know white folks across the board. They have a lot of them with better careers. You're making all this money.

More likely, you may end up being with a white guy because of your financial status. Maybe. I mean, obviously, there are a lot of successful black men as well. So the point, my whole point is saying that is you expanding your dating. So you have more options. And sometimes I don't think it has anything to do with race specifically. I'm just saying you have more options in that regard. So, you know, I'm not anti-interracial relationship.

I'm not. But you sound like you used to be. I was. So if you saw a black woman that wasn't with a black man, why did you, why did it rub you the wrong way? Okay. Slaver. Look, I have a lot of. I don't want to, yeah.

To answer the question, I have a lot of, I have a lot of like, busy. going on, so we want to be very careful with how it's some of these things. At the same time, you know, growing up, again, being from... And it's Louis, like the Beyonce said. No, but when you think about that across the board, I'm saying...

No, seriously. Come on, dog. I'm saying, growing up in Louisiana, it's... I mean, listen, we were taught... My parents taught us, like, listen, be careful of you dating these white girls because black boys would be found in the river.

You know, this is a real thing. You know, a white girl may say, oh, this guy touched me and didn't have anything to do with it. And you may have a consensual relationship. These are the stigma. These are things that we were taught. So you automatically had these walls up because we're from the South because of slavery and just Jim Crow across the board. So that's what I'm, that's what I mean by that. But I have evolved because, you know, a lot of the generations, the people, we all have evolved.

We're learning more. So now we're open to these things. that we weren't open to before. I know my mom, look, my sister-in-law is white. I mean, and she's from Canada, so she's like, stone white. And I, but she's, listen, stone white. Snow white. But we love her.

And I know my mom, I know they were like asking my brother, when he was in Canada with them for, we're like, man, you're up there with all the white folks, you know what I'm saying? You're the only black guy up there. That's a real thing. We think the fear of something bad happening, not just, you know, of them, but obviously she comes from a great family. And there's been a great addition to our family.

So let me say, look, I don't like the shit, right? So look, I'm just keeping it a buck, right? Keeping it 100. You don't like it on either side. If I just say on both sides. It's nuanced, right? It's nuance. It's nuance.

So, so I understand that, look, believe me, I understand that love is love. It was Gino. It's sushi y'all didn't want to say nothing. I know, when you're saying this. I know, no, no. I'm trying not to look at Rachel actually. I'm trying not to look at Rachel actually. I understand that love is love, right?

So I get the concept that. that I could love anybody, right? Whatever race, whatever the race, right? And still, I intentionally, so I'm going to be with a black woman, no matter what. I intentionally choose to only date black women. And maybe they probably mix with something else. I don't know. You know, you never know, right?

But I intentionally choose to date black women, right? Because I want my kids to see, I want my kids to look up to this relationship and see something restorative about that, right? about the concept of love and the black family and all these different things, right? Now, with that being said, it's a bit of, I'm a bit hypocritical there because when I see a black woman with a white man,

I can't, I can't help but think, I can't help but think of, well, not live through us specifically, but we lived through the stories of black women being taken, right? And that's all I can see. That's all I can see is black,

black woman being taken by a white man. That's all I can see, right? We're taken from. No, no, no, no. I'm talking about, forcibly taken. Sally Hemmings. Absolutely.

I'm talking about non-consensual and I understand that that's not happening. It's like triggering for you to see. It's triggering, right? For both of you. Yeah, but what I'm saying.

Hold on, let me say this. And on the flip side, you know, if it's a black man with a white woman, I look at it's a little bit. Hey, man.

I appreciate you for being honest. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate it. I appreciate it for the culture. you know what. That is a common.

That is a common. Rachel, you know, you got to speak on your experience. Yeah, Rachel, you got to talk. Rachel. And I also want to note, because I know that this will come up.

Y'all didn't like that. I was supposed to say, I also want to note this to note for Rachel because I've known her for a very long time that I have heard certain things come up and everything because she's in an interracial relationship right now. But I've known Rachel for 20 years. I know all of her serious relationships. And all of her serious relationships are black men. So put some respect on her name. Stop trying to make a sentence. We are not talking to Rachel.

And that's all I'm going to say. What she sees is, and I'm curious because you guys feel a certain way, is a lot of people don't think that I am allowed to speak about black women and black men together because I'm in an interracial relationship. They think that I've lost the ability to be able to do that. It's not fair or I don't know how to take up for black men and black women together. That's more of what she's saying. What you mean?

No. You don't get to tell her. As long as you feel safe. It's all I'm saying. No, I get that people think that. Right, right, right, right. Okay, okay. Maybe not the best spokesman, right.

My blackness. And just to be clear, I wasn't taken, you know, I made a choice. That's not what I mean. She picked him. I picked him. She literally picked him out of a bunch of niggas. Literally. No, but you're saying that's like a knee jerk.

That's your knee jerk. That's my knee jerk reaction. Right, right. Absolutely. Julius, Jalen, Lamarcus. Brian. You will. None of them.

So look, this is what I'll say. I don't give a fuck. I will say, like, for me, I just have this vision of my family. And the vision is of me and a black woman and some black-ass kids watching Harlem nights, like cracking up, right? Not Harlem Night. You know, like, I mean, like just the classes, right? I think about, you know, what it would be like, me, three beige motherfuckers.

We're watching American Idol. You know what I mean? I mean, that's what that's the kind of shit. What would you be watching with them? I mean, no. You know what I'm saying? You're going to be watching American Idol, Meet the Fogas. I don't meet the fuck.

Some shit like that. It's like, Daddy, I want to vote for him. I'm just joking. I'm joking. Really, really, can I be honest with you? Really, really? I don't give up. I really don't care.

I don't give a fuck. I am from the Deep South. We are from the Deep South. And in the Deep South, there is just like this thing to where. It's not even taboo. Because think about this when you think about the South. Think about the fact that culturally there aren't as many differences as you think. Think about the fact that where I'm from,

In Louisiana, the culture is like ridiculously strong in terms of the music we listen to, the food that we eat, all of that stuff. That's pretty much shared in a lot of ways, right? We all watch football. We all eat the same food. We worship the same God. We just do all of these things at different places, right? We worship Jesus, different churches.

We eat gumbo, different cookouts. We go to see Southern. They go to see LSU. I go to see LSU too. No tight. Go tight. So it's, so the cultural differences that exist there, particularly in a state with such a rich cultural Louisiana, it's all race.

It's all race. It's you are black. Therefore, this denotes this specific thing about you. That indicator being as strong as what it is is just unrelentingly powerful. It informs a lot of the decisions you make in such a specific way. Like it means something if you are a black dude and you are. around nothing but white people. It's a choice. It's a thing. And it waves on you. Now, you come out here and you look around and you go to one of these clubs in Hollywood and you'd be like,

goddamn, these people, they're getting along. Jesus Christ, it's Todd Dulleside. Come on. Everybody go crazy. You know what I'm saying? And so it is different. But I will say this. I agree with you guys. I couldn't care less about this. The only time I do care about it is, and once again, a guy to keep it all the way real. There is a movement of these niggas ain't shit. Let's try something else. Wow.

Wait, wait a minute. You just skipped a whole thing. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait, wait. I don't date black women because they're ghetto. Hold on. By the way, by the way,

that's the only time when I have a problem with it. I roundly denounce that. And here's the difference. When we're on this podcast, when a black person says that, when a black man says, on this podcast, I'm on his motherfucking ass.

Be it fresh and Finkelstein or whoever those guys are, whoever it is when a black man says, I don't fuck with black women. I date white women. I'm on his mother fucking ass. We don't care by the way.

We don't care if you don't date us. Good. I know, but what I'm saying, but look, look, apparently they don't need us. Look, look, but what I'm saying is when I hear you, when that happens, You can be real. I'm on top of them, right? We don't care.

When it happens on the other side, here are out. And what I'm asking for, and so what I'm saying is, for me, it's like, okay, well, let's talk about the real shit that's going on there. I'm like, no, if it's not okay, and I think, just to be honest, sometimes this is where people maybe I maybe have an issue, Rach, and let me get down a little bit more. and like I'm doing the whole thing. And sometimes they like if I if my if my significant other were white, if it was a white woman and I was on the podcast like defending somebody's ability to say I'm not fucking with black chicks anymore. Every black woman in this place would have an issue with that.

And they would say, well, of course he thinks that. He got a white bitch in this man. But I've never said anything to the opposite. She hasn't. But what has been done is like when there is a conversation about, because I bring these things to the podcast purposefully. When like when there is a conversation about somebody who has said, hey, like, The Grand Exodus.

Like I'm over black men. Boom, boom, boom, boom. I don't defend that. Yes, you have. When did I defend that? We, like, we put it, Donnie where Donnie at? Like, we've, like, Don, like, Don, sweet booty. Is it a specific situation?

or I generally say I defend women. Relax. Donnie, I don't like that name. Yeah, we're not coincided. Appreciate you. We're not close on. I mean, is it like a specific incident? Because I don't generally believe in anybody saying that they don't date their own race. What I do believe is being open to dating anybody.

And I've always stood by that. And I've always said that I can't stand when people hide their significant others and I cannot stand, which is a conversation that we've talked about because you see that in Hollywood with black men. can get into that conversation as well. Oh, I just been busy and insecure too.

And I have a problem where people say they don't date their own race. So this is what I'm saying. I don't care who anybody dates. I don't. If black women are so fed up or angry with black men that they want to try white guys, fine. Well, why is it the assumption that we're fed up or angry? I tell you why it's an assumption.

First of all, I'm not making the shit up. I'm telling you exactly what I'm seeing said. We are black women, by the way. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Oh, wait, wait, wait. I'm not telling you, we did this on the thing. Like, we, I took the comments. Remember the girl and over the pandemic,

she met the white dude and she, it was a beautiful love story of a Nigerian lady and a white guy. We did the topic, right? And the only reason why we did the topic, I couldn't care less the fact that they are bringing a new Drake into the world. Like, that didn't bother me at all.

What I cared about was when I, like when I cared about was when I read those comments under there, all I saw was these niggas ain't shit been time to let them go. Blah, blah, blah, blah. To me, we should not debase each other. If you want to date. We agree. Like, if you want to date, I'm telling you. Apparently, I'm talking in general. It's ignorance on, you know.

But I just think this is, I think it's really difficult for black men in general. to deal with it because I don't think we've ever had a time where it's been so prominent where we especially social media is very heavy right now. There are a lot of YouTube and TikTok interracial couples and it's you know we see serenas and you know so I

think like it's never been as prominent there haven't been as many public figures that have dated outside the race than now I mean I see the way people talk about Eve and it's like whenever there's a black woman associated with a white man it's because of money and you know it's it could never just be because this is the person that she fell in love with.

But I think what the lack of understanding is, since I've been young, it's been something that black women have just been had to accept that like when a black man, it's educated and he gets a good job, he's probably not going to be with one of us. And that's something that we, as you guys were talking about what you're taught when you were young,

what we're taught is when we talk about that need and that self-sufficiency, it's because when we were younger, it was like, well, we don't know if this is going to be, you know, if we're in the same place, we're both going to college and we're both getting educated. We both get good jobs. You may not choose me.

And so I've got to figure out how to be self-sufficient without you. It's a much smaller percentage of black men with black. I mean, that was a thing because it was always so visible. Right. But like it was always so visible when it happened. And there would be a talk about O.J. Simpson or whoever else was there. But if you think about the black men that you really.

looked up to, rest in peace, Harry Belafonte, my brother, you weren't one of them. But like if you think about, you either, Quincy, but if you think about the black men that you really looked up to when you were a kid, like, if you think about the ones that were super prominent, most of them. Most of them were with black women. And even today, this issue and what I will cop to myself on is being triggered by this, because this is much less of a deal in actual people's homes around the country right now. now then we talk about it a lot, but if you just crunch numbers.

I don't know. I think you're in a relationship, so it's different for you. I'm talking about data. Okay. Well, I'm telling you as a single black woman who has these conversations, this is a conversation I have with a lot of other black women often is especially living in L.A. Like when we were, we literally just went bowling like two weeks ago. And I had a conversation with a mutual friend of ours who was saying she didn't know maybe

it's time for her to start dating. Not leave black man, but she was like, maybe I should start. And I was like, what should you know on? That's LA, though. Remember that, like, the majority of us, we live in the South. Living in the South. So a lot of times when we get to, and because L.A., New York and other places control the media, these conversations go to it like where, I don't know about Ian friends, but like the

people that I'm lived and his family, his brother, them. Stone White. He lived in L.A. Stone White. He lived in L.A. For 12 years. But when I'm saying, that's what it happened. That's what it happened.

That's true. But like in a place where there are a lot of black people, I just don't think, I'm not saying that I'm not, I don't think this is as big of an issue around the country as we think that. Let me give you an example. We got to move on to. Let's look around. Let me give an example of what dating a white person in the South looks like, right? So, quick story.

Kicking it with this white girl. Working together. And so we're on break. We walk to the call. corner store, right? Get a snack, right? As we're walking back, we encounter a black woman, right? And instantly, I'm talking about instantly, you know it's an issue. It's an issue, right? You can see it on her face. You can, I mean, if she was snarling, I mean, it was, it was bad. And so she comes, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, we got to name it. She can't be snarling, she can't, we can't make her into a rock, mama. She was upset. We got a name

problematic language. Yeah, we got a name. We got to name it. She wasn't snarling. The sister was a little bit upset. She was really upset. She was really upset. They'll kick our fucking asses for that. So here's what happened, right? So she's upset. She sees me, she sees us and she comes barreling in between us, right? And so me as a man, right? You know, I stop. I turn around because I'm going to protect the girl, right? You know, I'm with her. I'm standing here with her. I'm not going to let that ride, right? So I said, I got it. I understood it instantly, right? I was like, damn, I won't say this to this woman. But I said, excuse you. And she just turned around and mumbled something like, you did a da-da-da-da-da, you know, walked off, right?

white man's name. And so, and so, look. This is a bad story, and so I turn to, I turn to the, no, listen to me, listen to me, listen to me.

Listen to me. Listen to me. I turn to the, I turn to the, the girl who I'm with. And I, I asked her, she okay? She's like, yeah,

but I could tell that she's, I could tell that she's like, you could, listen to, hear me out. Hear me out. Hear me out. Hear me out. Look, look, look. No, look.

I knew this. I knew this was going to be. No, no, no, no, hear me out. Hear me out. Did Tanisha scare you? Gino, this story is not hitting the way you. Hear me out.

Hear me out. What they say about you. No. This gets worse. This is worse. This gets worse. This gets worse. She says, she said, hold on.

I don't care what they say. She says, no, I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She's like, oh, a couple minutes later. She's like, she's lucky I didn't say what I want to say. Me, me and my brain, right? I'm like, what? Like what? Like, what?

Like, I'm thinking she's about to say, what, bitch? I'm like, what? She's like, no, you know. And I had no fucking clue because I forgot. Would you forget? She said, no, you know, nigga. No way. This is one of the worst stories.

I swear to God. And so this is a- I know what you know. Don't tell that story. No, no, but here's the reason I tell that story. Here's the reason I tell that story. I tell that story to say that it's always there. Dating white folks in the South, it's always there, right?

And so there is this thought that I don't care if you are black woman, a black man that they're going to call you a nigger at some point because it's always there. And look, it's funny, but that's real shit. That is real. That's a real, that's a real situation that happened. I believe it was a real story because I don't think you could make that up. I never heard about that one. And so, you know, as you date, I mean, you're trying to rationalize with damn, you're actually with a black man, right? And at the same time, you can't even see that I'm the same is this black woman. And so that's what dating outside your race in the South can feel like.

You see what I'm saying? Yeah, it's powerful. This episode is brought to by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need Weather Tech floor liners in the summer, unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner. Or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips.

Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. This episode is brought you by Duluth Trading Company, whether it's the 19th inning, the 12th quarter, or the fifth and a half shift. Overtime isn't going anywhere,

which is why Duluth builds hardworking gear for folks who work their butts off. Their work shirts are built for function and comfort, given a big foam middle finger to all that's futile. And the new ultra-tuff, no-quit-you-tuff. shirt is equipped with cooling and wicking tech to keep you comfortable. Give no quits. Shop at a Duluth store near you or at Duluth trading.com. We were going to do the waiting to exhale rapid fire question, but we're running short on

time. So we want to get these questions answered. I'm sure y'all got some questions. We have like a time for maybe four or five, depending on how long they are and the responses. Sure. Got first questions. Raise a hand and I'll give you mic. No questions.

Wait an ex-held it. Let's do rapid fire of waiting next. Hold on, wait a second. I don't like that. We up here. I'm sweating. It's ammastard and this bitch, and y'all ain't got no questions.

They just found out about Q&A. Ask them. That story, Gino told about everybody quiet. Nobody wants to touch that. Don't do that. You got to have some questions about that story. You got to have some questions about that story. Yeah, ask you know.

So this is what. We'll do. Every single question will be about that story that you know just No, don't even play Case on. No. Move past it. Do you really have a question? Oh. It was literally about this story.

So, y'all have no questions for real? Okay. We got one right here. Hold on. What do you got? I don't have a question. It's more of a comment about what we were talking about earlier. I do think

that one is stronger than because as long as I was wanting a woman, I was thinking I was looking for somebody to fix me. And it wasn't until I got comfortable with myself that I was able to get a woman that wanted me. So it's just kind of. Balls. There you go.

Beautiful. That was beautiful. Fantastic. It's amazing. Any comments? Any other comments? You ain't got nothing to comments or nothing? No questions.

Yeah, got a comment. Yeah, I like the way she said. Somebody about to get testing. I just, I really enjoyed the forum. It's been really nice, but I totally disagree with the women on this panel. Let's go. Speak on it. And it's so much on it.

It's unfortunate because I love my people. Like, I absolutely love my people. But I agree with a lot of what Van said, not to try and recap all of it. But we need black men. We need men, period. And we need to not forget that. That is the most human thing about us.

One of the things that turns me off the most is when a man tells me how independent and strong I am. We have been groomed as black girls to accept or believe that we're so independent and so strong, basically telling us get used to being alone. Something that Van said made me think of this too. When you said the part about people say they don't need, they don't need, and it's that another, and it's absolutely that they do need, we all got a girlfriend at the house that don't sit. that do nothing. I don't care how much money she makes. I don't care how much she travels. I don't care all the toys she buys. All she's talking about is she need a man.

We all got that girlfriend. And it's just like it's so unfortunate that we don't see that as women. For the men, I wish the men, especially with the ideology that you guys bring, would really try to inspire other men. I think it's unfortunate. I think our generation is the generation that's going to miss out. because it's going to take some time of young boys hearing men like you speak and share your ideology behind love and women and just companionship

before they grow into it. Absolutely. We can't ignore how we've been groomed from slavery on up, you know. Can I say some to that real quick? I love it. It's actually going to be, it's crazy because, like, you know, I lost my dad a couple of years ago. and I'm fucked up in all of the same ways that he's fucked up,

exact same ways, exact same things. And the man was right there. He was right there the whole time. I could touch him the whole time. He took a great interest in my life. You can always go by it the best way. But he never fixed himself.

So I was raised broken in specific ways, right? And I'm at a point in my life where I get to have agency over who it is that I want to become. And I get to make a decision about whether or not, not I want to ruin a woman, whether or not I want to raise a fractured family, or whether or not I want to step up to the plate and try to do things differently. And I think sometimes like, like for me, like growing up, a lot of the things that were put around me were made to make me feel more like a man. And I learned about my, I learned that from my father. So black men, I can't speak to, you know, 25 million black men, but like men, period.

they have a real, real responsibility to fix themselves, to do the necessary work to make sure that the people that are around them are healthy and happy. Because if I, I love my father. Love him. I love his memory. But, you know, my mom hasn't been with anyone since he passed away. She lives with my grandmother,

which is there's nothing wrong with that. But like our family, there was no family. It detonated. And it was because really there wasn't whatever was needed there for him to kind of put his family ahead of some other things in a way. So black man, we got a lot of work to do. But we got a lot, but I feel like we all have to kind of do it together.

You know what I mean? And want need has become such as, it's really semantics. You know, and I think it's just got a little nuance in the whole thing. I think we all are saying the same thing. And I think it's just, I think, again, it depends on where you're at. Because, and that's for everybody. It depends on where what you're looking for, where you're at.

And that's why I was saying, consider the source when you're talking to that. Because there are people who are in certain moments where they really do feel like they don't need anybody. And that will change because we do need people as far as, like, you know, learning how to ask for things. I personally wasn't raised to not. My parents are still together. My mom was a very traditional woman. To this day, she still makes my dad his plate. Like, to this day.

Shout out to your mom. And I'm like, is she for real? She might be my mom uses a cane now. Like, still makes a man's plates. Every meal. So I've come from a very traditional household. But, you know, I think it's... The food falling all off the side of the plate or is...

If it's neat, you know what I get placed made. You know what I get placed on. You got to put love on the plate. I love that. She takes incredible care of it. One more question. Hi. On that note, I am in an interracial relationship and have never made my man a plate.

So I'm coming from a different perspective. What kind of interracial? What flavor? My partner is, he's Japanese, Korean, and white. That's kind of different. You start. Okay. All right.

I'll take it. But I will, so comment and question. The comment is that Bell Hooks is all about love kept coming up for me listening to this conversation. and, man, you brought it up a couple times with patriarchy is at the root of so much of this. Like more than man, woman, it's patriarchy, which is white supremacy, capitalism. That's like getting us all mixed up. And I think we would all benefit from undoing that quite a bit.

But my question was about, we talked a lot about relationships and women holding men accountable, men holding women accountable. I'm curious how and where you guys are having these conversations amongst friends. Like what are your platonic relationships with women and men? How are these conversations coming up? And are they? They are for me. Yeah, we have these conversations regularly. I don't know, when I look at my friend group,

we talk about these type of things all the time. And to me, it's all about leading by example. I think to the plate reference, my wife makes my plates, but guess what? I also make her plates, you know, or if she makes my plate, I'll wash the dishes or whatever. It goes back and forth. So it's all about balance.

You know, everyone is not, you know, in a situation of, you know, woman, you do this, you know, when you do that, I pay most of the bills because I make a pretty good living. But guess what? If I don't have it, she has it. So it's all about balance. So when you're, oh, go ahead. I was going to say my friends and I talk about this often as well.

That's what I think it is important to have friends of the opposite sex to ask them. Like, I talk to my male friends often and tell them about my dates and how I, certain situations, and sometimes they're like, you're tripping, you know, like, I had a situation where, you know, the text that I sent, I showed it to my friend and he was like, let me explain me you the reasons, like, how a man would receive this, right? Versus when I sent it to the group chat with, you know, my family friends, they were like, no, that makes total sense, right?

But it's like, I'm not trying to partner with my friends. They already know me as a person, right? And so I think it's important to understand because it's like we show like women are going to receive us and see us in a different way oftentimes than men will when you're, you know, seeking that dynamic. So I think that's a really good question. I actually, my friends and I talk about this often that it's important to and also friends that you don't agree with. You know, I won't name his name, but we talked about like a mutual friend that said if after three dates you're not having sex and he won't go on a date with you again. You know what I mean? And I was like, ooh, I'm disgusted by that.

You're still my friend. You know what I mean? But it's like, oh, there's men that think this way. You know, and it's important to also, I think that when they're your friends, it's a safer space for the men to be more honest about their opinions because they're not trying to, like, get with you. And you can get a better understanding of kind of the way that they're thinking. I have these conversations. I'm, like, very open with my girlfriends.

And I've come into this place where I have kind of stopped talking in general with my girlfriends about, like, everybody else. And I really have just started to focus on me and what I contribute and how I react because it's just kind of all over the place. But I about a year ago got a black therapist and it's a black woman therapist and it's completely changed my life and also my perspective, how I communicate. She's changed my life for real. And so for me, I've decided to just start taking accountability for my actions. And I think like that has completely changed my perspective.

but also like I just had a conversation with the girlfriend who was going through it with another girlfriend. And I was able to help her shift her perspective from like what this other person did to like how she, you know, how she reacted. So I think like it's really important for us while we're talking about building and responsibilities that we really take ownership of our self and how we're reacting, what we're putting into the world and and taking real, real cause and thought to what we are doing to contribute. because sometimes we are the toxic ones. And I think we have to be, you have to be honest with yourself about what you're contributing into not only like your relationships with your friends and family and significant others, but how you're projecting that into the world as well.

You know, a lot of us think it's innocuous to leave a funny comment on a social media platform. But that, to me, is still contributing to that and to the universe. So I think those conversations are important to have. Yeah, that's, give it up for that. That's incredibly well said. I said clap, niggas. But I'll say this to the point that you made a little bit earlier.

And this is kind of the sick joke about all it is. And you guys will be okay if I speak just to the black people here, okay? None of this is us. Like none of this is us. When I say that none of this is us, I mean, where you were dropped on this earth and where you are migrated to after. thousands of years, it became the place that your culture was born. And there were reasons why the cultural differences between people exist. You can negotiate those reasons or compare and

contrast them as much as you like. The reality is our idea of the nuclear family, our deal of what makes up a society, our idea of what makes up a community, our idea of what makes lasting relationships has all been informed by a one. Western European view. We were having this conversation. I remember the Black Lives Matter, ladies, and then they had a mission statement on their website. People were pissed off about the mission statement. Because the mission statement said, essentially, they said, hey, this is what we believe in. And what we believe in is it takes an entire village to do this. And so because it takes an entire village to do

this, we reject the idea of the nuclear family. We reject the idea of capitalism. We reject all of these things. And right away, people said Black Lives Matter doesn't like families. Right away, they said they are trying to shoot down, minimize black men and trying to take black men out of the household. They don't like the family unit. No, what they're saying is they envision a family where I'll take care of your kid while you go protests. They envision a family to where we would share the economic burden of things. And if we had, we had cultures and communities that were more steeped in who we are and what we are and the oral and actual human, history of where we come from, then a lot of these conversations, we wouldn't be having them.

Because we would understand that who makes the money in this situation is driven by a little family that becomes a tribe, that becomes a city, that becomes a country, that becomes something that can compete out in the world. And that capitalism is informing that. And Western Europe's Pian patriarchy is informing that. The way we dress, the way we move, Drake's paint his nails. Everybody says, Drake's gay. The reality is, if you understand, that that is us, that northern African black men painted their nails, that there's nothing about that that has anything to do with an idea of femininity other than the one that white men taught you, right? So all of this stuff, really when we're negotiating it, we're losing sight of who we are

anyway. My thing is, if we are going to redefine who we are, what makes a family, what makes a group of people that can support us, let's start on the even kill and let's burn it all down. Because I don't judge a black woman for what she wants to do in her life, a black man for what he wants to do with his life. I want strong, like intentional, powerful black communities. And a lot of that is going to be unlearning as much as it is learning. So to your point, all it is. Capitalism, patriarchy, misogy noir, all of it.

It's steeped in all of it. And we had a good time talking about it and we'll take it back out. But I think at some point, we got to get back to zero. Thank you guys for the great questions and comments. And also, first off, give yourselves a hand clap for being here. We really appreciate this. We haven't had that many live audience opportunities. So this has been really fun.

And we also just want to acknowledge the lack of LGBTQ plus perspective that we did not have in this conversation, which I just think means we need to have another summit where we, do encompass those perspectives and even more. But this was just more of a general summit of the sexes, but it won't be the last. Thank you, guys. It wasn't that bad, ladies. And thank you. It was, well, it got, it was getting there.

Thank you, Nina. Thank you, Shannon. Thank you, Chino. Thank you, man, and Rachel for this. Thank you very much. You know, we were walking. Thank you guys. Thank you guys for coming.