Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Hip-Hop and Responsibility With Royce da 5’9”

Episode Date: November 17, 2023

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay discuss the criticism of Van Jones’s appearance at the March for Israel (11:45) and the back-and-forth between Candace Owens and Ben Shapiro (31:13). Then, rapper Royce da 5’9” joins to discuss hip-hop’s impact on Black culture (39:16), before Van addresses the Keke Palmer and Darius Jackson leaked audio (1:15:05). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Royce da 5’9” Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is that? Her learning is on and is I Van Lathan, Lytton. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. All right, we got Royston 5'9 coming on later to talk about hip-hop and responsibility.

Grammy, not like a number one albums. Literally one of the best rappers of all time. Donnie, you're from Detroit, jump in. When I say literally one of the best rappers of all time. Don's not here. Donnie's off the call right now. He's doing something else. Like, you cannot find

very many rappers who are just going to outwrap Royce. It's facts. I can what y'all say. It's facts. Literally one of the best of all time. Rachel, do you like lyrical? Do you get into lyrical?

I like lyrical. I'm more into lyrical rap. I think, you know, obviously I'm not as well versed as you, but I think he first came on my radar in one of the cyphers. Oh, yeah. That's when I first, gosh,

I used to live for the cyphid. I used to do. I used to love that. But honestly, because I wasn't as into, like it wasn't on my radar. So I would live for the cyphers because it would introduce me to so many different rappers from all over.

So for me, it was very educational because I was like, ooh, I really like that. Let me go look up this rapper. So many it introduced me to. And Royce being one of them. The cyphers were so dope. You know, it was like, oh, yeah, we coming to you live from L.A.

it's the fucking West Coast Cypher DJ head on the ones and twos Kendrick Lamar, sure what you got. Yo, it's Kendrick Lamar. Is that how Kendrick raps? Or it was like an opportunity. Like Kendrick did a couple before, but then when he was TDE, he did the TDE

Cypher, he was introducing us to TD. I don't know, it was just, I used to love it. Anyways, yes, I mean, more it's a lyrical. I auditioned for Royce for my song Stop Doing Drugs that I have dropping And Roy signed me to a single deal I know a lot of people Rachel here's the thing

You know the reality is the interviews coming up later Rachel the reality is What is the reality? You You hating is not going to help me achieve my dreams It's not hating it's honest I want you I want you

I am your biggest fan. I am always rooting for you. But it's my responsibility. And we talk about responsibility later in the conversation with Royce. It's my responsibility to not have you embarrass yourself. Wow. What kind of friend would I be? That's tough. That's tough. That's tough. Nobody will sign me for a top. Well, who I love won't sign me. Sway who I was on the phone with Sway

for like an hour, hour and a half a couple of days ago. Sway, it never wants to this conversation, Sway. Everybody go tag Sway. If you're listening to this right now, all the thought words, go tag Sway and ask Sway, why won't he sign me? Why won't he sign me?

All of these people, they won't sign me. They won't let me rap. You know what, they're trying to keep you out. Don't tag Sway, y'all. Just DM Van and tell Van why Sway. while sign him. Why he won't sign you? Yo, bust this.

Van coming straight off the top of the dome, nigger. Coming with the motherfucking ET alien phone home, nigger. See, I'm telling you. You know what I'm saying? I can do that.

I'm an alien. I'm a rap alien. ET phone home. Let it go. With the finger. And y'all can do this. With the finger. With the finger,

I point the finger at you and your whole whack motherfucking crew. Bull. See what you? See what I'm saying? Ah, what the fuck? If I can predict what you're going to say, it's not good.

That's not true. I knew you were going to say crew. You didn't know that. Yes, I did. You're looking for new ways to hate. That's not a rule. It's not a rule in rap that if you can't, if you can predict what somebody is going to say,

then it's not ill. That's not a rule. You just made that rule up? I did. That's not a rule. What's you doing what you're doing this weekend? I'm going to Bad Rouge. You're all stop the ground.

Where should I go? Actually, I don't know if I'm going to have that much time. But I'm going to Baton Rouge, going to the LSU game. Justin's birthday week. So a group of people, shout out to Justin Sylvester. He celebrated birthday this week. You know, he's from Bowbridge.

But spent a lot of time in Baton Rouge, LSU. So we're going to go out there for a game. Brobridge. Not Bo Bridge. I usually say Broken Bridge. So I was trying to say it the correct way. Bro. Bro bridge.

Excuse me So we're going on there A group of friends Celebrate him Go to the gang Tell gay All the things What's it called the swamp

Gator Alley No oops not a gators tigers Tiger Alley I'm in Tiger Alley sorry Tiger Alley Oh my gosh It's not called Tiger Alley by the way That's not what it's called

It's called Death Valley That's what it's called It's not in any way called Tiger Alley and it's not the fucking swamp. That's in Gainesville. So that's why I got confused. He has in the swamp that I thought Gators. No, you thought it's because of Brian with the Florida.

You're doing this on purpose. You know damn well it's not the swamp in Baton Rouge. Tiger Alley. It's not Tiger Alley. It's Death Valley is where we play. Tiger Stadium. 102,000 people. There won't be a hundred two thousand people there.

I can't wait. I can't wait. I've only been to an LSU tailgate. Sweet. So I've never been inside. So I'm very excited to go. Best game day environment known to ban. You ain't ever been to a Longhorn game.

Oh, nigga, get the fuck out of here. No, I will not. Ain't nobody in life ever compared the Texas tailgate to the LSU tailgate. And I have been to a Longhorn game. They're not different. One is superior. They're like, they're not different. It depends your preference.

One is better. Okay. When did you go to a Texas one? What game? 2000. No, no, not 2000. 1999. Ricky Williams was playing for Texas.

It's a problem. When I went. Ricky Williams was playing for Texas when I was there. It's progressed. 1999? It's progressed. No, he was there in 99. It's progressed.

It was Texas of Obama State or something like that. Like Ricky Williams was playing. Like it, but 99, 98? What was it? It might have been 98. That's 99. But anyway, it was his highest season. So whenever that was, like I saw him.

just run through people. It's ridiculous. Yeah. But look, hey, you know what? This is me. I don't need to be incredulous about that. You went to Texas. You feel like yours is better. I went to LSU. I feel like mine is better. Ours is demonstrably better. No one even ever brings up Texas when they're talking about tailgating and the best environments. It's not even a thing. But look, I, I, hey, hey, Rach, I'm not like you. I'm supportive of you. you. So yeah, Texas. Yeah, baby, Longhorns. What are you doing this weekend? Nothing. Spider-Man, the video game. Oh, is like the new movies coming out?

No, Spider-Man, the video game. Spider-Man, the video game's coming out. Spider-Man, the video game is not coming out. It's already out. I'm through it. I'm playing right now is Mary Jane Watson, running through tasing people from behind in the game. Play the game every night. It's very fun. And LSU is basically has a game against, we don't want to disrespect our opponents, but it's not, it's very,

we're going to win by a lot. Okay, it's Georgia State. Yeah. And so I'll spend that time watching the other games. You know, it's the week before rivalry week

in college football, so it's not going to be a whole lot going on. It's going to play a lot of Spider-Man. I'm going to hang out and chill and get my body back workout-wise. You know, I've been traveling a lot,

So this week I prioritize sleep and working out. You know what I'm saying? Very good. Good for you. Hell yeah. You know what I'm saying? Hell yeah. But yeah, you'll have a lot of fun.

So if you have time, I once had a panic attack of Bro, Bridge. If you have time, you want to go to Tony Seafood on Plank. It's very far from the stadium. On the side town, it's not that far. It's bad news. Tony Seafood on Plank. You want to visit my mother. I'm going to try.

No, that's it. You're not going to do it. You know what's crazy is when I was in Dallas, I made every, every... You were there for a long time. I made every, every attempt to visit Rachel's parents and it couldn't happen.

They always was like they didn't want to say hello to. You know that's not true. That's not true. That's not true. Did I not say, hey, I'm here? They were sick. See? See that? That sounds like an excuse. Now, Rachel's going to my hometown. I say, hey, Rachel, why don't you say hello to my mom? And what do I get back?

Crickets. Fair. Here's the problem. I was supposed to land in Baton Rouge at 12. So I was going to have all of Friday. I have to go to a doctor's appointment so I can't land there until later. And so I'm not getting there to like, and I fly it into New Orleans and I got to drive. So I probably need to be in Rad Rouge to like 9 o'clock.

Saturday's game day. I'm out first thing in the morning. But I really wanted to. I thought I was going to get down there early on Friday, but I can't. Yeah, you're not flying at the Baton Rouge. No one wants to really fly in Baton Rouge. I'm going to fly into it. Really?

Flying out of Baton Rouge. And then you got to. Should I be a concern? No, it's fine. It's fine. You probably got to stop, though, right? Oh, yeah, in Dallas. Digger, we got to get to the show.

But you, you traveling, like, well, we don't do connections, man. I agree. That's why I don't check a bag. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, why did you? Why don't you just stay in Dallas? Thanksgiving next week. Well, you could just, why are you connecting Dallas? You could just stay there for the whole week and be with your family.

Because I have something to do next week. Oh, I feel. Okay. Are you going to see your family when you're staying in Dallas? I'm not saying in Dallas. That's a connecting flight. So you stop in Dallas and you don't see your family. You know what, Rachel, we're going to have a conversation about,

you don't see my family, you don't see your family. At least, hey, at least I keep it. At least you keep it. All right. Big deal of the day, Van Jones. It's all entwined. We got Van Jones and Raleigh in D.C. And we got a fight at the Daily Wire.

Something's going to happen on this podcast right now that I never in a million years thought would happen. But we are living in strange times. All right. On the other side of this break. You missed the opportunity. need to rhyme. Gosh, come on, Van. You're slipping. What was the rhyme? You said, and we got a fight, and I thought you were going to say, on the right. Oh, that's actually good. All right, on the other side

this is a break. More rhyming. More rhyming. Rage and Ben. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Trimfaya offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject trumphia, proper training is required. Tremfaya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis, serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections, or lower ability to fight them and liver problems may occur.

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Offered by Fandul prediction markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant, 18 plus. Bonus is non-withdrawable and expires seven days after receipt. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See terms at fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. All right. So there was a pro-Israel rally that took place in Washington, D.C.

and a lot of people came out for this rally. We're going to talk about some of the people that were at the rally, but people seem to be fixated on the fact that Van Jones was there. Okay. And I'm going to say something right now. People are doing Van Jones a little dirty. They're being unfair to Van Jones. Okay.

I'm being for real when I say this. They're being unfair to Van Jones. Now, this pro-Israel rally is interesting from the standpoint of It seems to be a reaction to a lot of the sentiment surrounding Israel and what's happening right now as it relates to the operations in Gaza, the bombardment in Gaza. People are calling what's happening in Gaza a genocide. They do not believe that Israel is following humanitarian and international law and the way that they're prosecuting their war against Hamas. They believe that they're indiscriminately bombing, hospitals, refugees camps, other places like that, under the guise of it being operations against Hamas. Of course, we've heard the counter-narrows.

Israel says it must eradicate Hamas after the just vicious, brutal, deadly terror attacks from October 7th. they say that Hamas has entrenched itself within civilian areas, schools, hospitals, whatever, refugee camps. So the only way to prosecute the war is to bomb those places because that's the only way to hit Hamas. But when you do that, you kill thousands and thousands of people. And according to the Palestinian Health Ministry, thousands and thousands of people have been killed, including over 4,000 children. So what we're seeing right now in D.C. is not only people that,

are showing their solidarity with Israel, but I also believe personally that it's a reaction to growing international condemnation of the way Israel is prosecuting its war. And that condemnation isn't just within the international community. You're starting to see even the administration over here, the Biden administration, increasingly respond to pressure by people who don't want to be associated with the way the war in Gaza is going. And you're starting to see that bear out in the way the United States is both talking about the war and dealing and comported itself during international voting. There was a vote in the UN that just took place a little while ago for a ceasefire.

Normally the United States votes no or has voted no to any talk of a ceasefire. And this time, the United States abstained. Obstaining is cowardly, but it is at least to some a sign that the United States does not stand unequivocally in opposition to a ceasefire. First of all, before we get into the rally, am I wrong in any way to you the way you feel like people here in the international community are starting to react or respond to what's going on in Gaza? No, I mean, I think that that's, I think, and again, I'm not as well-versed on this,

but I feel like governments don't know how to react, and I'll speak to ours, about what's going on about the opposition to the way the Israeli government is handling the war and the way that people are standing up for like in a humanitarian way, talking about the innocent lives and civilians because I feel like the sentiment has always been in the past, well, these are, this is just a product of the war. You know, like lives are lost. Like they're, they're trying to accomplish a greater good.

And sometimes innocent people or innocent lives are, whatever it may be, are destroyed in the process. That's just a product of the war. And people have just accepted. it. And I feel like we're living in a time now where they're not doing that. So yes, there seems to be, whether it's social media, whether it's people being more educated on history, things of the past, or even just what's happening in the present, absolutely the way that you just couched this, what's going on is what's happening. And I don't feel like the governments, different governments know how to handle and react to it because it is so different from what's been done in the past. Of course, there's always been an outcry to protect the innocent, but not to this level,

it seems. And correct me if I'm wrong. You know what's funny is I don't think that you're wrong, but I do think that there are Jewish people or not necessarily Jewish people. I do think that there are Zionists that would ask the question why. And I've had conversation with some of my friends that would say, normally when there are wars that are being prosecuted

or wars waged innocent civilians die and there don't seem to be as many people saying hey we condemn this we condemn this but I've had people say to me when Israel is waging their

war all of the sudden everyone cares about the Palestinians and what's going on in Gaza I think and I've heard that and I understand that feeling. And also I also think that people are being I think people

are being obtuse a little bit when they discuss why Jewish people around the world feel persecuted or why they feel like there's some special set of rules that they have to operate with as it relates to

war. Why they feel like people are always looking for fault or looking to find fault with them. I think people are saying, hey, it's not that simple. We're just talking about things that are happening and they're saying we're always being persecuted. And they're saying, stop making yourself the main deal.

If you really step back and everyone really accesses this throughout a lens of what people have gone through and trauma and the response to that, then you'll see that obviously there's a reason why of course. The Jews or Jewish people or Israeli people would feel like they've been treated unfairly or they're being unfairly persecuted is because there is a long history of that.

And so the actual goal here, the tough thing to do here is to have this conversation just about people in a vacuum of what you've gone through, what you've been through, and how you look at the world. Like to say, hey, 10,000 dead people, how many is enough? or to say, hey, 1,200 people killed on October 7, what does that give a country or a right to do? And talk about it as if we're putting people first and not our trauma and our horror and the horrors of our past first.

To what you were just saying, I would say this, to any, and I have said this to any of my Jewish friends who I've discussed this with, is like it's not going to be, in my opinion, a compelling argument to use horrors of the past to justify why horrors now can go on. You bomb Dresden, you killed this many people, or you use the nuclear bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki this happened.

I think what people would say is, you know, those are things that we should have learned from. Exactly. And if even if we talk about more recent, things, the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, those are things that we should have learned for. Those are things that we should be wary of supporting or repeating. So just because they happened in the past, to me, doesn't give anyone a mandate to do anything similar now.

It's absolutely what we should be saying now anytime a war is happening anywhere is how do we continuously do better in terms of dealing. with non-combatants and civilians during situations like this. And I think if we take a step back and remove ourselves from the posture of you did it so we can do it too, I think we kind of understand that we're looking at this from a different way. And a lot of people here in America are uncomfortable with the relationship between America and Israel and what that means as far as our culpability and what will be happening here. I think a lot of things are happening.

We're not going to re-legate that. I think that's an overall view of kind of. the table set under which the march was happening. A lot of people came out. Isaac Herzog, who is the president of Israel, not the prime minister, the head of state. The top guy there is obviously Benjamin Netanyahu. The president there is more of a ceremonial type of situation that they have,

I believe, is elected by the parliament there in Israel. Chuck Schumer was there, House Speaker, newly minted House Speaker Mike Johnson was there. Hakeem Jeffries was there. And a couple other people were there, too, that I kind of want to talk about, as we're talking about the strange bedfellows, that all of this animus and conflict in the middies is making. It's really an interesting thing,

and it might be happening here on higher learning, too. But Van Jones got a lot of the attention. This is what we're going to do. A lot of the things that Van Jones said were cut up and use as clips. Yeah. And I was tortured because of this. Because Van Jones, Van Lathen mix up, which continues.

I know. Y'all got, you always have to give a public announcement about it. People hit me up. I was at the gym. People were like, how could you? I don't know what I have to do. I don't know how to do. I don't know what I have to.

Just take it. Just take it. So here's a deal. Play a little bit of what Van Jones had to say. Come back. Donnie running. I'm a peace guy. I pray for peace.

No more rockets from Gaza and no more bombs falling down on the people of Gaza. God protect the children. God protect the children. Let's end all the horror and all the heartbreak in the Holy Land. Let's end all of it. Let's end all of them. I'll be honest in closing. When I think about what's happening over there,

I don't feel powerful to do something about what's happening over there. What I do feel powerful is to maybe do something about what's happening here. Let's take a stand here against anti-Jewish bigotry. Let's take a stand against Muslim. Let's take a stand here against hatred. Let's take a stand here against hatred of all kinds. I watch Ben Jones's entire speech, guys. First of all, when he said, let's take a stand against Muslim.

The context matters there. Of course it does. I'm just kidding. Of course it does. Of course it does. I've lost to the whole thing. The context matters there. What he meant to say, if you're giving him a shred of charity,

it's like, let's take a stand against Islamophobia. or anti-Muslim sentiment. That's what he was trying to say, guys. That's what he was trying to say. Van Jones did his best job of both sides and the issue up there during his speech. Yes. He did essentially what most people would think

would be the right thing to do, which is to say, hey, I am completely for the safety of Israeli people. But what I don't want is that to come at the expense of Palestinian civilians

that don't have anything to do with this. I don't want to answer terrorism with terrorism of people. And I can both stand, I guess, with Israel and with the safety of Israel, Israel and be critical of anti-Semitism everywhere, Islamophobia everywhere, and the war in Gaza. And I think his participation in the march in the first place pissed a lot of people off.

And I think when he went there, he probably left the people there at the march as they started to chant no ceasefire. He probably left them unsatisfied with what he had to say. And it just goes to demonstrate the intractability of this issue and how sometimes it seems as if people don't

want humanity, they want filthy to how they look at it. I think he took a big L in every single direction and I think some of it was a little unfair. Yeah, I mean, listen,

If you're watching, I was shaking my head when you talked about the part of him saying, take a stand against Muslims. Like, I'm joking. Obviously, I listened to the whole thing as well. His whole speech was about, you know, peace, innocent civilians, being a humanitarian, and fighting against hatred for all people.

Okay, that was like the general consensus of a speech. The problem is that I think Van Jones, is easy to pile on because he does constantly try to both sides issues. And anybody who's reading articles watching the news knows that this is not an issue that you can both sides. So his intentions might have been good to speak to this rally about, you know, the people and for peace. But it's almost like, did you forget where you were? the very podium that he was standing at said march for Israel, march to free hostages, march against anti-Semitism.

Nothing about it was both siding it. And he quickly learned that by the chance and the booze that were coming from the crowd the moment that he did. His very presence standing in front of a podium that said those three things means that that's what you stand for alone. It wasn't inclusive. And so I just don't understand how, again, his intention may have been good. And I do believe a lot of times he does have good intention, but he so often tries to please both sides that that's why people have such an issue with him. It's like take a stand against something.

And his stand here was for peace and for people. But it was lost on this audience. And I think it just highlights, too, where we are on this issue. As people, you're either this or you. you're this. Nobody wants to hear anything in between. And that was very reflective of the way that that crowd responded to him and reflective of the way the social media responded to him. It was a lose-lose situation for him to go here, even if his heart was in the right place. So there's some tough questions that you have to ask during this conversation, right?

When you say that you want peace in Israel, like, what does that mean? Peace for Israelis. Like, what does that mean? What I mean is this. I don't want people to have to worry about whether or not they're going to get slaughtered at a music festival or whether or not their kibbutz is going to get burned to the ground or whether or not they're going to get systematically slaughtered while they're not involved in anything. However, there's a step further that goes there as well, right? Because when you say you want that, it doesn't just mean when you want peace in the region.

That doesn't just mean that you don't want civilians to be targeting. during times of war. That also has to mean that you don't want people killed in settlements in the West Bank. I want people to know that prior to October 7, when we talk about the fact that there was a ceasefire, you hear this repeat often, that there was a ceasefire before October 7th and that Hamas broke that ceasefire. Prior to October 7, 237 Palestinians have been killed in various different, by Israeli forces, various different times throughout that day. year. So their lives were always forfeit in a way that it wasn't really reflected for Israeli life. So it's always a thing, right? So the question becomes when you say you want peace, does that mean

you want the absence of war? Or do you actually want peace? Because if you want peace, then that means you want freedom of movement for people. You want equal rights for people. You want people to be able to live openly, freely, and honestly, without having an occupying force. That's a tougher question because that makes you ask really hard questions about what it is that you might be supporting. There were also some other people that were there that were very, very peculiar to me. One was named John Hagey, who is an evangelical preacher who had said things in the past like God said Adolf Hitler to help Jews reach the promise lane.

that once before. He'd also said that there was a homosexual parade on the Monday that Katrina came and he believed that Katrina, which killed my family members, was in fact the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans. Interesting. He also once said that Muslims were a religion that had a mandate to kill all Christians and Jews. Or over 1.8 billion Muslims on the planet. So there's a lot of stuff that's going on that's making weird, weird, weird alliances. You wouldn't think that a guy that had said as many anti-Semitic things and also believes in the fact that God, Jesus, when he touches down on Earth, will forcibly convert Jews into being Christians, Muslims into being Christians and run a millennial, a millennial theocracy there from the seat of power in Jerusalem. You wouldn't think that a guy like that would be standing on that stage, but these are the times. that we live in. That brings us to other people

who you would not think that you would be agreeing with. And that brings us to Candace Owens. Candace Owens is into it with Ben Shapiro. No. Who is the editor, Emeritus, over at, um, how do you say, is that how you say that? Emeritus. Emeritus. Emeritus. I don't know how you said. He's confused me as well. Over at the Daily Wire. they're into it because

Candace has been decidedly not in favor should I say what he's real is doing and Ben Shapiro we know is a very ardent Zionist he's also a racist troll

I just want you guys to remember something about Ben Shapiro who now ask the world for alliance in condemning people who might harm Jews I want you to remember who Ben Shapiro is.

Ben Shapiro on Trayvon Martin's birthday. On Trayvon Martin's birthday. Okay? On his birthday, tweeted this. Trayvon Martin would have turned 21 today if he hadn't taken a man's head and beating it on the pavement before being shot.

He tweeted that on Trayvon Martin's birthday. That tweet is still up. He also, trolled black people because we were so excited about Black Panther. Just fucking with black people for no reason. For no reason. This is kind of the disconnect that I'm talking about, guys. When I'm talking about people who have obviously admitted such anti-black sentiment

and then have the nerve to appeal to your humanity and ask you whether or not you're a barbarian. You fucking went on here knowing that this kid was killed. Anyway, Ben Shapiro was mad with Candace Owens. And before we get to her statements, he had this to say about him.

Yes. The question is about Candace Owens. I think her behavior during this is a disgraceful. Without attack. And I think she's been absolutely disgraceful. I think that her faux sophistication on these particular issues

has been ridiculous. It's not faux sophistication. It's ridiculous. Everybody can see the moves that she's making. and the things that she's saying and I find them disrespectful.

Called her disreputable saying that she has full sophistication on the issues, the issue of Israel and Hamas on what's going on

over in Palestine in Gaza. I want you to listen to Candace Owens now on the Tucker Carlson show and guys, it hurts to play

as much as it does for you to listen to it because she's been anti-black as well. I want you to listen to this and tell me if you think that Candace Owens is lacking sophistication on this issue.

Or if you don't say anything, they say your silence is violence. If you say something and it's even handed and it's nuanced, which is to say, you know, during the times of Black Lives Matter, you might say, I don't support police brutality. Who does? I don't support racism. Who does? But also, I think that police are crucial part of every city.

We need to have policing in cities. So these calls to defund the police are immoral and wrong and are going to lead to more black deaths. People didn't want that nuance when Black life. Following George Boy, there was no nuance. You had to explicitly say defund the police. You did. You had to post a black square. I have seen every single person, including myself, condemn what happened on October 7th. Because who wouldn't condemn terrorism? It's all right who would not condemn innocent Israelis dying. But if you then say that it is also sad when an innocent Palestinian child dies, suddenly this is pro Hamas or you need to say, even when you're talking about how sad it is that a child dies, you need to button that statement by saying, but that child was a human shield. That's not going to be my response. First off, as a mother, that's not going to be a response as somebody who is about to give birth when I see these images of children involved on both sides of the conflict. I have pointed to the people that are mocking dead Israeli children and said that they are horrific. I am even keel on this matter.

And yet people think that you need to be extreme. So people that have become more radical and extreme are perceiving a moderate stance as not enough. I was going to say people can disagree with you or agree with you or whatever, but you certainly don't seem radical on this topic. I'm definitively not radical. Okay, you can cut it off now. We don't give a shit about that. Um, it, it, it. Were you shocked?

Where she keeps the same energy. I'm not shocked. I'm just that there's almost no way you can disagree with her there. Right. It's on, yes, on yes. On that. Not Black Lives Matter, but yes. Look, her business, obviously we disagree.

I wasn't telling anybody to post any black squares. You know, that's not my thing. think all of that stuff gets to be performative anyway. But the reality of it is, is that once again, Ben Shapiro is someone who seemed as if he was flexing his industry muscle on her to make her say something, right? It's, look, I don't want to play into any tropes. But the reality is that how can you disagree with what she said? She made a very cogent and logical expression of why she doesn't feel the need to ignore the Palestinian children that are being killed over there right now. And how can you disagree with that?

Well, it's because it's the same thing we said about any time an issue does directly impact you or it doesn't impact you. Everything that Ben Shapiro has said before, it's all about, you know, like free thinking and free speech and not being free. forced to say something that, you know, you don't believe in and having the right to have a difference of opinion or see things in a different way, even if you, you know, and not cancel people over it. But yet he's not keeping, and this is why I say, Candace is keeping the same energy, you at least got to give it to her she's consistent on the things that she's saying and the way that she thinks about it. He's not doing that because this time it directly impacts him. Some of the same things that we were saying with surrounding Black Lives Matter, you know, for the,

For him, he couldn't see it any other way. As a Zionist, you said he's a Zionist, right? He's a Zionist. He's a terrorist. Absolutely. Yeah. As a Zionist, this impacts him in a completely different way. And he is only seeing it through the eyes of a Zionist.

And anybody who he feels is saying something that doesn't fall in line with that Zionism, he's going to flex his muscle, which is what Candice is kind of saying, calling out the hypocrisy. in that as she goes on to use her Twitter platform and within this interview with Tucker Carlson, he's being a complete, Ben, Bish Barrow's being a complete hypocrite at the moment. All right. There it has, I'm saying it's weird.

You see Mike Johnson and Hakeem Jeffries on the stage together. You see Hagee up there. You see Van saying that, you know, Candace Owens is making a lot of sense. It's just weird, scary political times here. Everything's all in their time. Everyone's in their feelings. Yeah.

And not saying that they shouldn't be about things. I just want to be clear. That's what I feel like people are doing things out of emotion. All right, guys. We're going to go ahead and get to the, the Royston 5-9 interview right now. Let me get to that interview. Get it out there from people.

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Visit weathertech.com today. All right. A lot of talk and hip hop about messages. A lot of talk and hip hop about what we should be doing. And look, man, of all the people that I talk to that are part of a rap game, of all the people that I know, there are people who are expert rappers. There are people who are great people. But I can tell you right now, the guy that we're talking to is an expert high-level rapper

with as much skin in the game as anybody else and just one of the most honorable men that you could talk to. One of the best guys for advice. Royston 5-9, Detroit's own. He's joining us down Higher Learning. Brother, we're happy to have you. How you doing, my man?

Come on, man. I'm excited to be here, man. Thank you for the, thank you for the kind words on the intro too, man. That's a great way to jump it off. Let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question. Before we even get into it, let me ask you a question.

Is it just real question? quick, you know me, is it too late for me to start rap? I don't think so. See? To achieve what? To achieve what, though? That's a great question.

I mean, to achieve, I mean, to, I mean, to, I mean, what do you mean, to put all y'all under my thumb? What do you think I want to do? I want to, I'm, I'm out, I'm out, I'm, I'm in the game to become number one in the game, Royce. But you already, honestly, honestly, like, you already, um, You already have a brand, just not as a rapper. So you have an audience.

Okay, okay. You want to hear one of those songs? If you can win them over, if you can win them over, you can do like a little pivot. You want to hear my song that I just made up about not doing drugs? Okay. Okay, real quick, Royce 5-9, before we get into the whole hip-hop thing, just Rachel, stop, everybody, stop.

This is the song right here. We've already heard him. I just want you to know we already heard it. No, he does not need a beat. There is a one. Okay. It is the beat. Two, three, four,

stop doing drugs, stop doing drugs. Everybody, stop doing drugs. Stop sorting Coke, stop sorting Coke. Everybody, stop sorting Coke. Stop shooting up. Stop shooting up. Everybody stop shooting up. Stop popping pills.

They don't give you thrills. Everybody stop popping pills. Yo, sign me to heaven. Sign me to have a studios. That's incredible. That's incredible. You don't even need a studio. That's already on the frequency already.

You pulled that from God. Royce, I know you have been keeping up with the conversations in hip-hop as of late, 50 years of hip-hop. You've dedicated your life to this thing called rap. And it's been good to you. It's been good to you. You do it at a high level. There's substance in your music. There's substance in your life.

before we even get into what Dr. Umar had to say I just want to ask you 50 years of hip hop looking back at it do you think that it's time for hip hop to assess its responsibility culturally to black people when you hear people say that

do you think ah they got a point or do you feel like I don't want people telling me what my artist supposed to do what is Royston well I felt For a minute, I felt like that we need to, we need to start being mindful of everything. Yes, we do need to figure out a way to hold each other accountable. Not even just, not even just in music, but as a culture, as a culture.

I think the first step is to identify how influential we are, how important we are as a culture. how much we need to know how much money did we generate. We need to know how much money is going out of the black community or going out of the culture versus what's coming in. I think we need to start paying attention to all of that stuff. I think accountability is a big thing.

We didn't know that hip-hop was going to make it this big. And it's kind of like a double-edged short because it's like when you look at people like pop and, well, let's say pop, that's probably the most important rapper ever, right? to censor pock is the is the dim greatness you know so i think i think it's a it's a we would have to be very very selective but then on in most cases you can pretty you can tell when somebody's being like when somebody's painting a picture and they're being artistic versus somebody that's just being

straight up ratchet so i mean i think um i think when we come into the game especially since we're so young when we get into the game, I was 20. When we come into the game, we need to be a little bit more mindful of how important our words are in the responsibility that comes along with having a platform. It's like it's something that's afforded to you, just like success. Success is not free. You know, when you get it, you have to give back. You have to give it back.

You can't just take your ball and go home because then you'll lose the blessing. You know, I really feel like that. So I feel like when it comes to the music, why not hold each other accountable? We just need to figure out a way to speak to each other. To me, that's the problem. You know, like everything offends everybody and everybody's triggered by everything. And I don't see a lot of people doing a real good job of like judging what's happening off the intent versus what's being said. People just don't like to hear that name.

People don't like to be the finger pointed at them or be looked at as like the problem or be singled out. So I think it's a lot more there than just ratchet lyrics. I think it's a, there's a huge, I don't know if I want to say disconnect, but there's an issue within our community where I just feel like we don't like each other. Before we get into Dr. Umar, one more last question on the 50 years. When you look at 50 years and to what you just said, about accountability and responsibility. Do you ever believe over the 50 years there was a time when that's what hip-hop rap was?

And if so, when did it switch? I don't believe it ever was a time where it was a thing for us to hold ourselves accountable for what we're saying. I think there's a time in hip-hop where there were a lot more rappers doing positive music and having a positive message in their music at a time, at the same time, and it was marketable.

But I don't think, I don't think that I would conflate that with the culture having to understand that we have to be more conscious of what, what we say in our music. Because we took it, we took something that it was so raw and we got to just express ourselves. And we were the guy, we were the people from the underserved communities that not even by circumstance, but on purpose didn't have a voice. And then we found out a way to have a loud voice. So the world can hear everything about us that they didn't know. I just think that now we're past that point. I think we're to the point now where it's just being abused now. And at some point, at some point, we got to hold ourselves accountable.

And I'm not pointing the finger at anybody. I'm talking about myself too. Yeah, yeah. So you know what's interesting, bro, is I was having this conversation with Charlemagne. And he actually countered it. What he said was we actually don't see that there's more hip hop that is not street hip hop. He was like, what about the fact that the biggest rappers in the game or non-street guys like your Coles, your Drake's, your Kendricks, like guys like that. And that if we really pay attention to it, that there's been a change in hip hop in the last 10 or 15 years where the street stuff.

is not as popular anymore. It doesn't feel like that, but does he have a point? Yeah, I think that's a different conversation, honestly. Okay, okay. I think, I think if we're talking about an indictment on hip-hop, yeah, that's a great counter. But what I'm talking about is not an indictment. It's just necessary, it's necessary for us to be more aware of how important our words are and the ramifications that comes with what we say from our platform.

And I'm not even just talking about in the music. I'm talking about the way we carry ourselves publicly. Anything that we're doing, anything that we're doing with children are watching. I think that we should, I would love to get to a place as a community where we can hold each other accountable without offending each other. Right. All right. So what we're going to do right now is we're going to play a little bit of what the good brother, Dr. Umar, had to say, controversial figure. But when he's right, he's right.

And just let you see, just listen to it and see if, um, By the way, just before people get into it, this is not in any way for us to pit Royce against Dr. Umore or Dr. Umar against Royce. That is not the thing here. It's just not. I can never be against Dr. Umar. Of course. So what I'm saying is it's just very deep and layered what Dr. Umar said. So I wanted to get somebody who's been as successful as Royce to get his take on it.

So go ahead and run that real quick and then we'll see what Royce thinks. 50th anniversary of hip hop We only got 60 days left in 2023 Do you mean to tell me We're going to let this year-long celebration go by And nobody's going to have a serious conversation About whether hip hop has actually been a benefit Or not to the black community

I haven't seen a conversation, a YouTube, A town hall meeting a BET special. I don't see anybody talking about the ramifications, the negative impact that hip hop has had on the black community. Now, the first thing the hip hop artist is going to say, I'm only rapping what I live. But you don't live it no more.

The minute you start making money, you moved out the neighborhood. So why are you still rapping about drugs and death when you don't live around that no more? That means you're a hypocrite. And if you're so dedicated to telling the ghetto tail, why did you move out the neighborhood? Why do you sing your kids to private schools? So you live in a white neighborhood.

You send your kids to white private schools. You moved out the black ghetto the minute you had enough money to do so. But yet you're telling me the reason you're still rapping about death, drugs, jail, and homicide is because that's the life you live. You don't live it no more. What you think? About which part? I guess as a whole, but I'll ask you about this specific part. When Dr. Umar or brothers like him are talking, they specifically talk about tangible results for a group of people.

So whenever you hear him talk or the people of his ilk talk and you guys, just before our audience freaks out, I don't endorse everything that Dr. Umar says. but when Dr. Umar is talking about the black community, he talks very specifically about hospital, school, grocery store. Like what you actually need to live. And you just can't deny that actual community building is about having those things inside of your community. So what do you think about the idea that hip hop has been less beneficial

to black people over the course of its life than it feels like it's, incredibly culturally influential, but has hip hop benefited black people? I mean, I know it's benefited you in your life, but have you seen the benefit from where you're standing? It absolutely has benefited

black people. I mean, if you look at rock and road, and the way rock and road just kind of like fell off and disappeared and how small we started and how hip hop kind of like took over everything,

and then evolved into this genre that's broken down into a whole bunch of different sub-genres where there's a lot of negativity being painted, a lot of negative pictures being painted. But there's also the first of its kind positive things that are happening. Like in hip-hop, we'll be the first genre of music where our legends will be on stage not looking like that they're about to fall over and croak at any second. Right. Our legends are going to have longevity. This is the first genre of music that speaks to community issues, mental health issues.

You never heard about, all you heard about was drugs from rock and roll. You know what I mean? Like, we're the quickest evolving genre of music. You know what I mean? And then we also are the easiest outlet to financial gain, maybe not financial freedom due to lack of information. But I think that there's a lot of. of silver line in there the guys like Dr. Umar.

No offense to him because I understand why he can't see it because the way he just looks at it, you know what I mean? But he's absolutely right with most of the stuff that he's saying. He's absolutely right. But I think he's just a little bit blunt with the way that he puts it.

And I don't think he's trying to see the silver line in it. I think he's trying to just see obvious, obvious results, obvious results. But us as black people, we don't get obvious in an immediate instant like blatant in your face results

anyway, you know what I mean, with anything protesting or anything because we can't we can't agree on anything you know what I mean? So it's just like even himself like he argues he argues back and forth with other activists you know what I mean like all of that shit need to stop

you know I mean like fingers can be pointed in a lot of different ways it's all harmful It's all harmful when you do things to make yourself mean worthy, you're taking all of the credence out of all of that truth that you speak. You know what I mean? So we all can be criticized. And we all can be better.

Yeah, hip hop is not perfect, but I don't think we have, we don't have any perfect spots within our community. None of our spots are perfect. You know what I mean? We just have moments of greatness. all around that nobody else has. And I think we overlook

stuff like that and we don't realize our value. I think we need to start looking at, we need to start identifying with the good stuff first so the morale can get a little bit higher. Because everything just feels like an indictment. You know what I mean? Like I can receive what Dr. Umar said

because I got the utmost respect for him. But a lot of guys ain't trying to hear that shit because of the because of the delivery. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you think that, oh, I'm sorry, I thought you were done. No, go ahead. Go ahead.

Do you think, like, to Dr. Umar's point, and I'm not one to necessarily agree with Dr. Umar. But, you know, when. You know why? You know why, really? Why? This is not the only reason. I agree with most of the shit he has ever said.

It's because I, what Van wants to say is because I'm in an interracial relationship. So he's, so that's the point that he's. he's talking about with what Dr. Umar says, but that's not everything. Shut up, Van. Anyways, back to my question. Back to the topic at hand. We're not here to waste Roy's time.

I think to Dr. Um, I think to Dr. Umar's point, you know, he's more like speaking to is rap, hip hop trickling down into the community. When we were talking about, you know, with you about,

uh, accountability and responsibility. Is that, is the music, is the industry. We know what benefits those who are in it. But is it, is there that responsibility

and is it trickling down for black people into the community? Do you believe that, and do you believe it should? It doesn't have to. The responsibility portion of it? Yeah, like this,

this multi-million dollar billion, if it's billion, I don't even know, business, all this money that's being made, okay, billion dollar business, all this money that's being made, and the people who are in the industry are making this money off of it, and it speaks to our culture.

He's saying it's not trickling down into the culture, into the community. Do you believe that there is a responsibility from the industry for it to do that or from rappers to do that? And do they even have to? Yeah, I think it's a responsibility. I think the rappers, the artists, the black artists,

in particular, I think we should be held. to every standard. I'm not going to even lie to you. We should be held to every standard. Obviously, a little bit more lenient with some of the younger guys, but really just hold each other to every standard. Now, the music industry,

I also believe that they should be held to every standard by the artists. You know what I mean? But they have, like, a lot of tactics that they use to make the younger artists that come into the game with not a lot of information. they have tactics that they use to make them feel like, you know, it's our pleasure for you to be here.

Don't mess up because you might not get another shot. You know what I mean? So a lot of guys are just being PC because they don't want, in fear of losing their quote unquote position, you know, so that fearlessness that we would need, you know, for everybody to kind of like be stomping through like Dr. Umar,

everybody's not that kind of self-contained. You know what I mean? but I feel like in a perfect world, in a perfect world, like if Barry Gordy wouldn't hold Motown, and we had that as a hub to kind of fall back on,

I think the whole trajectory of everything would have just been different, but I don't, I just don't see us getting to where we need to be without doing everything that you just said, everything. You know, like the industry is built on

robbing artists. And I don't even know if I can call it robbery because it's just it's the nature of the business. It's just how business is set up. The people with the more information and the people with the capital and the powers that be

or whatever you want to call them, they have more information than you coming into the game. So you're going to get taken advantage of unless somebody that came before you, like myself, who made all the mistakes that you can possibly make, has to share the information with

that's not happening there's a big void there it's so much it's not happening so it's a responsibility to the OGs it's a responsibility to the artists

it's a responsibility to the women it's a responsibility to the executives it's the responsibility to everybody to me let me ask you this

and we got Royce 59 joining us on higher learning I got two more questions but the next one I feel like might be the most important man how do we have a conversation, right? Because so much of what

hip hop is about and so much of what we go through culturally permeates how the accountability is perceived. Obviously, you know, we've had D1 here on this podcast. D1 made ways because he went on Sway Show and he called out people directly. And from his audience And from the audience, you know, a lot of people thought that he had some points. From those brothers, it was not well received.

And I have been on the phone. And, you know, do you want to say this? I have been on the phone with certain of those brothers trying to make sure that things are ironed out. And that everybody is talking from a place of understanding to make sure that, you know, it doesn't go to a place that is unproductive. Let me just put it like, put it like that. what does accountability look like when

particularly in hip hop when anytime a rapper hears his name said by another rapper he is programmed culturally and in hip hop to neutralize the threat anytime you hear your name and I know you I know if somebody's rapping

and you hear voice to five nine or if somebody's in the interview and you hear Royce the 5-9. There's just not going to be, it seems like there's a lot of work we have to do in how, let me not meander. What does that accountability look like?

How do you do it? In a Royster 5-9 world, how do you have that accountability when it seems like sometimes we're so defensive? Well, to me, it's a great icebreaker. It's a great way to extend

the olive, branch and start a relationship with somebody that you may not be necessarily you may not necessarily feel like you have a whole lot in common with an artist that does make the kind of music that you make.

But one thing that I always stand on, man, if you're going to make a statement and you're going to hold people accountable, because I like what D1 said. I like what he was saying. I just don't I don't really feel like I feel like it was a more constructive way that he could have

did it. I mean, because when you do, when you do, when you do things publicly, you have to understand that you automatically put your intentions in question. You know what I'm saying? That's triggering to people. It makes people feel like that you're trying to, you're trying to, you're trying to do whatever you're doing to their detriment. Like you're trying to use them, step on them to get across whatever you're trying to get across. You know, because there's so many rappers that fall under the category that the brothers spoke about, you know, it's most of us. It's not just Meek and Ross and Jim, you know what I mean? So if I had been one of those rappers' name, I don't think I would have got as upset as Jim, but I do understand why the reaction was like it was.

It came from, it felt like it came from a more judgmental place than a constructive place, you know. But what he was saying was absolutely, absolutely correct. You know what I mean? Like, and I think, even though he didn't get the reaction from them that he was probably looking for, the crazy thing about humans, especially us, is a lot of times you're just planting the seed. You know what I mean? Like even when you give him push back to something that somebody said to trigger you, it doesn't mean it did. resonate. You know what I mean? It don't

mean that it won't be in somebody's head when they go to write their next rap. Because come on, man, we all we all men at the end of the day. We got kids. We're not waking up in the morning eating our cereal with a fucking tech nine on the table. You know what I'm saying? So it's just like

you know, after you reach a certain age and you make a certain amount of money, you go to the studio and you damn near got to get in the character if you're just doing, you know, what you're known for doing. Right. You know, not every artist has the luxury of being able to switch shit up and, you know, evolve right before people's eyes. Some people don't want to let you go.

Some fans, some fans just want you, they want you to stay how you were when you made that impression on them when they were 17. You know what I mean? And they don't want you, they don't want you to start rapping about smart shit. You know what I mean? Like, your music and the way you behave yourself is their escape. You know what I mean? So it's just when I decided to get sober, when I stopped drinking, first of all, I wasn't

going to tell anybody. I was scared to tell people. You know what I'm saying? Because I ain't know what my fan's reaction was going to be because so much of my quote unquote brand was centered around being an alcoholic. You know what I mean? So I felt like I was taking a, I was jumping out the window to whatever the reaction was going to be. The reaction was going to be. I was prepared to just go get a regular job if I had to. You know what I mean? And I think it's just, It's like that. It's like that. You know what I mean?

All you take is one little thing. Oh, man, he's different. Look what happened when any of us go to jail. We get out. He's a clone. Nah, he's not a clone. He just ain't been poisoning himself for the past couple years. His skin is clear.

That's all. You know what I'm saying? So, I mean, all of these conversations are like slippery slopes and double-edged swords. You know what I mean? Like, but Jim, you're talking about three. you're talking about three super intelligent guys. They may be aggressive by nature because of the environment that they come from that bred them. They may be aggressive, but they're not no dummies.

You know what I mean? Like that shit resonated for sure, for sure. Here's my last question. And just to piggyback on what you were saying, it is interesting because there was an interview that just came out with Andre 3000. and he was talking about why he hasn't wrapped in a long time, like a long time because he said he doesn't have anything to rap about anymore because he was talking about how he wanted to rap about his current situation. He's like, what am I supposed to talk about?

That my eyesight is diminishing, that I, you know, like he's talking about rapping about his reality. So it's interesting what you talk about, about rappers and kind of evolving to their current state. But here's my last question. To counter Dr. Umar, which I love. There are a long. Andre list of rappers who have helped the community.

I mean, the list goes on and on about charitable donations, outreach programs, scholarship funds, supporting movements. Several rappers, like a lot have contributed to the community to help the community. Why do you think this isn't as loud as all the other stuff? Loud from within? Like us championing? Yeah, like Dr. U.M. Yeah, like Dr. Umar is saying that basically

rappers aren't, it's not, the industry isn't, it's not trickling down to the community. It's not helping the community. But rappers are doing things as far as implementing certain things now that they have made it into the community. Why do you think that we don't talk about that enough? Why isn't that as loud? Yeah, you have with your mental health initiatives

and all of that stuff. Yeah, I mean, that's a tough one because somebody like Dr. Umar, I think a lot of his objectives are usually like he's usually preaching about community-based shit. You know what I mean? And we are lacking in that area. We are doing a great job of being all scattered out and doing our own part in our own little environments that we live in. And, you know, if we decide that we want to make that public, you know, like when I launched my foundation,

I had a press conference downtown Detroit. I invited all of the news. None of them showed up. You know what I mean? There's a lot of things that I do that I post it. I made public, but it didn't cut through. It didn't, you know, it got lost within the algorithm. It didn't spread, like, you know, if I had to been arguing with benzino or some shit.

You know what I'm saying? So, I mean, I just don't think that people, I don't think people are that interested in people doing positive things. in the community where they're looking to be entertained. You know, I think when it's time for everybody to be positive in the community, that's when all the finger-point comes out. You know what I mean? Usually when we're in some sort of crisis,

something just happened, and, you know, everybody's triggered, telling everybody what we need to do. Or we lose one of our, one of our legends. Like when we lost DMX, yo, yo, I had to get off Clubhouse. I couldn't go back to Clubhouse

because so many people were talking about, DMX like it was everybody's fault. Yeah, we sat there and walked them, you know, nobody, what kind of friends you got? Nobody didn't pull his coat tail. And it's just a bunch of people talking who don't, who doesn't understand addiction, you know?

And it's just like, I feel like that's a, that's a comfortable place for people to be, you know, like pointing fingers and kind of like yelling about the problem, you know. So when you're somebody who actually just goes and tries to do the work, and I don't really do a lot of talking. I can see how we get swept under the rug, but I can also see how that same person

would not like to be caught out on any level about anything. You know what I mean? Even if the person is kind of right, you know? So we'll never be like a monolith or anything like that. We're never going to like take something that we love the idea, like Rhapsody. We love the idea of Rhapsody. I don't, I couldn't love a female rapper more than I love her. as a person.

You know what I'm saying? Now, I don't know nobody who doesn't like it. But for whatever reason, it's not like we're just all coming together and just, yo, let's push Rhapsody. You know, like, it just kind of is what it is. You know, like people got their times of the day where they want their necessary ignorance.

I still go to World Star from time to time. Poison my brain just for a quick second. Then I try to balance it out. But there was a point in time. where I wasn't even conscious of that at all. I didn't care. You know what I mean? So get people a little bit of some room to grow, I think.

Yeah. My last question is actually about Andre 3000. Did you do the same thing that I did? Like, I got played, and you know how I feel about three stacks. Like, I got played harder than I've ever been played in my life, and I realized that I played myself. I'm on Twitter, and it says, Andre 3000 is dropping Friday.

And I'm like, brother, Sarah, the serotonin levels. Oh shit. And I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe this. And I literally posted on Twitter, I was like, I'm almost in tears. And then they came back and it was like, man, it's an all-flute album. And then I responded, well, now I'm actually crying. Okay.

But I thought about it. This brother is expressing himself artistically the way he was. needs to. Are you disappointed that it's not a rap out? No, I'm not disappointed. I'm not disappointed. Probably because I understand what he's going through. Yeah. I understand. Well, let me rephrase that. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Okay. I understand what he's going through in the sense of him saying that I will love nothing more

than to do a rap album, but that's, it's just, it just hasn't been happening. And I went in there and this the vibe led me to this and this is just what it is. When I go in the studio to record after all this time and like doing so many different projects and collaborations

and collaborative albums and doing a self a self-defining album and kind of like, I'm feeling like I said everything that I kind of wanted to say. I just need to be fulfilled. Like I can write verse

all day, no problem, no writers block, anything like that, but I can't get fulfillment out of just 16. It has to be something about it that, like, it has to mean something.

You know what I mean? Like, so I totally understand what he's saying. Now, the reason why I had to clarify that is because I was about to say that he set a very high bar a long, long, long, long time ago. He was way ahead of his time.

So I can only imagine what's going on in his mind trying to like compete above that bar, especially when you get a little bit older because that's when you start doing more, you think more. You think more and all of that thinking is not good for us. You know what I mean? Like we analyze, you know what I mean? Like after we've been down the flight of stairs,

up the flight of stairs so many times, we tripped on that one crack a couple times. And then now it's just like we already know it's there and we're thinking about it every time we get on the stairs. You know what I mean? Like everything is safe, safe, safe, safe, safe. So I talk myself out of plenty of songs in the studio. You have them written, recorded.

I love them for a second and be like, no, I don't want to say that. There never was a, I never used to be like that. Just going there and let the clip up. Now I think about my kids. When things happen publicly, I think about this first thing I think is, oh, my daughter may see this. Let me be careful how I'll even respond to this. You know what I mean? when they say rap is a young man's game,

I usually disagree, but in that regard right there, it's definitely a young man's game. It's kind of for the reckless. You know what I mean? When you get a little bit older and more mature, you become a little bit more apprehensive to be ignorant, you know? So, look, that's Royston 5'9. You guys heard it first here.

I'm signed to Heaven Studios. I got signed earlier. It's, look, it's a single deal. It's a single deal about the drug song. About the drug songs, a single deal. What we got to do is we got to get all the Detroit on it. And that's going to help me. We got to get a side of baby and we got to get Big Sean.

We're going to do a whole Detroit. Bring him through a whole Detroit situation. And we'll have Jason Wilson at the top of it. And we just go, I'm now, I've been adopted because when I came to Detroit a couple of weeks ago, I checked in with Royce. I was like, Royce is checking because I don't give a fuck. I'll check. I was like, Royce, just let you know I'm in Detroit.

That way, anything that happens is really Royce's fault. I can say, well, I was supposed to get touched up. It's on my watch. It's on my watch. It's on Royce. All right, brother, love you, man. Appreciate the wisdom. Always.

Royce of 5.9. Thank you for joining us on Higher Learning, brother. Yes. Always good to speak to y'all, man. Love, love. All right, brother. This episode is brought to you by Sweet Cream. The day doesn't ask for permission.

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if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. All right. At the run. I do want. want to do the Kiki Palmer topic real quick about her and dares real quick because I want to I want to clear up something that was

that I said on Twitter. This is so everybody knows. Okay. Okay, so I don't think Donnie, Nassad are you guys there? Yep. Yep. I don't think that we should play the entire seven minutes of this.

because it's a lot. Yeah. Okay. But I do want to play a little bit of. Just a little bit of it. So this is, this was made public by a guy named Armand Wiggins, who you can hear, say his name over and over again in the audio.

He broke a story. People, look, a lot of people had a problem with that. But the reality of the situation is that you break a story, Most people want credit for the story. It's the reason why you hear TMZ break a story and you see the TMZ bug on there. So this guy putting his name throughout this audio that he know would circulate, it's not that big of a deal. It's what people in that industry.

Now, this is audio of Darius Jackson on the television. on the telephone call with Kiki Palmer and her mother. Let's play a little bit up, Don. Man Wiggins. Bro, I've seen this like

20 different times, Sharon. It doesn't phase me anymore. None of what y'all do fazes me anymore. Come on now. Where's my son? Where's my son? Mom Wiggins. Okay.

Okay. I'm sure. That that. That's what you raised. That's what you raised. Okay. I'm sure. I'm sure. You probably suck a dicks too.

Okay. Armand Wiggins. Yep. All right, so about a bullet? All right, so about that bullet again? Amon Wiggins. Okay. Keep fucking with me.

Okay. All right, y'all do, y'all have no idea who you stepped up and just play with, but it's all here. You win, I'm trying to be nice to you. Yeah. Nope. So I tried to be nice. I'm with you. To put some clothes on.

Hey! Told to put some clothes on. You're stupid. You're stupid. You are stupid. Told to put some clothes on. You are a stupid man. She has to put some clothes on.

She's a mom. She has to put some clothes on. Okay. Okay. Here's the thing. This is what I posted on to me. I said, man, I'm flabbergasted as to how this audio got out. In my history, I know 100% that most audio leaks are strategic and targeted to make one part of it.

it to make one party look bad. This is unique. Everybody looks bad here. Even people not on the call who leaked this. Tell you guys what I mean. No one has been a part of more obtaining audio and video in this industry than I, except other people that worked at the place that I worked at. You have to listen to it. You have to decipher it and you have to decode it, but not just what's actually on the audio. If you're doing your job in the correct way, you have to decipher the intention of the audio. Not just why the audio or the video is being sold,

but for what purpose. Right? So if there's a person working at a hotel somewhere and they have static audio, a student, static video of something from an elevator, or if they have static video of something from outside, just outside of in the hallway of a hotel, you know what their purpose is.

Their purpose is money. They know that there's a famous person in this video and they want that famous person, they want money for bringing to life or selling what this famous person did. It's very straightforward. It's very straightforward in those cases, right? I got this person doing this with their wife.

I got this person doing this. If we take Jay-Z and Beyonce, we have an elevator video of this, blah, blah, blah. This is probably not being leaked by either side here. There are no sides, right? It's one family. You know, this person just wants to get paid. You can put that up, no frills.

Everyone watches the video. They made this decision for themselves. In the situation with audio, you always take into consideration like what the purpose of this audio is, like why somebody would be leaking this. Specifically, specifically when the audio is of or coming from two people that are involved in either a custody

dispute, a divorce, or accusations like that. Because if you don't take that into consideration, no matter what the nature of the accusation is, if you don't take that into consideration, what you end up doing, what you can end up doing, is actually taking sides in it or working on behalf of one person's side. Now, that's not to say that places like I used to work, don't do that. Because sometimes you have a relationship with one lawyer,

you know, depending on who's breaking the story, sometimes you have a better relationship with one celebrity. And people are human, they do that. I never did. My thing was that I never looked at something like, yo, I'm not going to put out what you want to put out to make somebody else look bad on your behalf. I'm not in the middle of this on either side. My point in saying this was that, for me, there is Jackson who seemingly obviously put this video out, right?

Or put this audio out. It seems that obviously come from this side, right? Nothing about this audio makes him look any better. I mean, we've seen pictures of altercations between him and Kiki Palmer. So I think if he's got somebody in his ear or if somebody's talking to him saying, hey, put audio out like this, it doesn't make him look better at all. Not once did he ever say, you're lying. I never touched your dog.

There's not one, one, there's not one time in here that he denies ever having a physical. altercation with Kiki Kiki Pong. Never. He never did. Not one time. Did he ever say, hey, this never happened. Hey,

this didn't go down. Hi, you're lying about that. Or he never said, hey, me and your daughter were in mutual combat or any of the things that men say to to make it seem as if they're not guilty of domestic violence.

He never did that. So if I'm listening to this, I honestly don't think that this does anything for him. And on the other side, Kiki's mom going on a prolonged homophobic rank, which that's what that basically is, also doesn't make their side look good. So what I was saying is, how does this piece of audio that makes everybody look bad.

Get out. He looks bad in that. He does. Because if it was me and I was trying to make it look like I wasn't a domestic abuser, I would post audio where in the moment, or I would leak audio where in the moment, knowing that nobody is listening, or I guess you're recording it so you're anticipating that somebody would be listening,

then I say, no, that never happened. that I say I was never there, I never did that, or she hit me and I was trying to keep her off me. That's the only reason why that's what I would do. That's what I would, I would be going directly to the accusations that are being made now because those accusations are material to, number one, whether or not he's going to be able to have contact with his son. Because if it can be proven that he's beating her up, then he's not going to have that. And number two, just for my reputation as a man and not an abuser, I won't want people not to think that.

This audio doesn't do that because he never really speaks to that. Every time he's accused of something, really, if you listen to the whole audio, he basically goes, where's my son at, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He never really even speaks to the fact that the reason why her mother is so upset with him is because she knows or believes that he's been physically abusive to her daughter. Now, when people are in protective mode, as Kiki's mom is,

they say things. That's no excuse for any of the things that she said. Because I don't care what you guys say. A lot of people are saying, hey, she didn't get all homophobic in that. There's no excuse for how she talked about Usher. There's no excuse for the pejoratives that she used against the gay community. There's no excuse for any of that stuff. But the rage that she's showing in the audio lends itself to the belief that he did something.

She's not like kind of mad. She's beside herself with anger and indignation. She's mad and angry at him. So I just look at this entire thing. as I don't see how something like that sees the light of day unless there are multiple people who don't know what they're doing and don't know like what you're supposed to do in a situation like this.

I mean, there's nobody who's going to look at that or listen to that and believe that he's not, that he wasn't abusive to Kiki Palmer. The pictures of him grabbing her, the stills of him grabbing her. if Darius Jackson wants to prove that he is not abusing Kiki Palmer, that audio is not the way that you do it. And playing that game like that is certainly not the way that you do it.

But God damn it, if this entire situation isn't sad and niggurific as fuck. I feel like the, I feel like that wasn't his. goal, or at least that's what it comes off is. It seems like the goal is more about, it's like what aboutism as opposed to making himself look better. It feels like it's more like I'm accused of doing this, hey, listen to this. And it's like bringing Kiki's side of this whole situation down to his level or make himself maybe look better by comparison. So you think that he is not in any way trying to prove that he didn't hit her. You think he's just trying to prove how crazy they are.

Yeah, I think he's trying to prove like, yo, the situation is crazy, and the child is not in any better of a situation with his mom than he would be with me. But at the same time, all of this, it feels, it's just messy. It's just mess. And my inner, like, old person

doesn't feel comfortable, like, talking about this. Because it feels like none of this, stuff should be, it's not for a public discourse, but I guess it is when we're talking about an entertainer in a situation where it's already out there and we are talking about it. But something about it, it just, this whole thing

just feels so icky and like, it's not my business, you know what I mean? Well, I feel like the issue of abuse is certainly for public discourse. Yeah, you're right there. That is a fact. And I think the issue of the abuse, yeah. Look, Ashley, what do you think? I just think it's definitely,

he's definitely trying to show that they're crazy quote unquote. I feel like a lot of abusers do that kind of thing where they want to show that whoever they have been abusing was the crazy one. I did this because of these people around me. And I don't know. It definitely doesn't, for a sane person, it doesn't show that he is a good person, you know, because we can see right through it.

But that's definitely what he was trying to do. And it just makes me feel just really icky to even, like, hear any of this. I just feel so, it just makes me feel so horrible. As a woman. Yeah. Does it feel like Kiki Pombo was safe with Darius Jackson? Safe? Yeah.

Um, no. Absolutely not. I absolutely not. I didn't. I, from when he was publicly dragging her because he felt personally insecure with what she was wearing in public, even though she is a public figure and public figures, you know, wear sexy things. And he decided to put it all out there.

It just gave me a really bad feeling from there. And that alone is like, oh, that doesn't make me feel safe. That doesn't make me feel safe for Kiki. And now knowing all this, it's just like, no, she was definitely not safe with them. It's crazy. Look, you know, when you listen to the tape, this is almost seems like this is what Twitter was made for, this type of ickiness and messiness and whatever. But there's no way, like no way, no way that you can come away and not feel profoundly sad for the kid that's involved. and just for every not I won't say everyone involved because you can't feel sad for anyone that's putting their hands on somebody but just it seems like there was so much darkness in the whole situation and Kiki is you know from what we know of her she's such an amazing cool talented lady and it just seems like there's been she I wonder from situations like that if she had a hard pregnancy if she had a strapped

That's full pregnancy, you know, just all kinds of different things. You know, what was going on. And I have somebody hitting on you, man. It's fucked up. But when I heard that audio, the reason why that was my reactions, because the first thing I was thinking is, I know that these leaks are normally, like, engineered when I think there was a Johnny Deptape that came out.

And I can't remember who set the camera up and who was trying to make food look bad. But I remember somebody moving something. out of the way of the screen so that it can be seen. And I'm like, okay, this person is trying to catch somebody in a bad moment. All right. Not saying anything or waiting into the Johnny Depp Amber heard discourse at all, not doing that at all. Saying you normally can figure it out like why something is seeing a light of day. But Donnie's point is well taken.

But with this one, I could not figure out who would want that out. Like, you know what I could not figure out who would want that out. If I would have been at TMZ, I wouldn't have bought that audio. First of all, he's probably under some, if that was taped in California, that's a, California is a two-party state in terms of consent. So if that was taped in California, that guy broke the law. So you know what I mean? Like, you can't even do that.

There are other places you can go. There's one-party consent, whatever. But in California, it's a two-party consent state. You can't tape a phone call like that without. the party of the party knowing. So, I mean, perhaps he was in his home state or he was in Vegas or some other one party consent state. I'm not sure how it works if one person is in California or the other person is out of state. I think if anybody's in California, then it's still two parties.

I'm not sure. Maybe they were both out of town at the time. I don't know. But depending on where that was recorded, he might be in legal trouble. These are two people who live in L.A. Anyway, all right, that's it. We don't like to do solo topics here. Rachel had something really important that she had to go do.

And to her credit, she did send out a text message asking if we could move the podcast up a little bit. And we didn't respond. So we got caught up. We got pressed up against it. She tried to move it so we could do more podcasts, but we didn't respond. So it's not Rachel's fault that she had to run. if anything, it's my fault. But it comes down to Donnie.

It's probably more Donnie's fault than anybody else. And then Ashley's second. And then me third. And then Chelsea. So that's the, that's for you having to listen to me without rage. That's the thing. It's definitely not Rach.

But it's Donnie number one. Then Ashley. Then I would say Chelsea. Then I would say me. Because Rachel, she tried to leave the podcast, some very important. Yeah, we do. But I just wanted to talk about that because people are going to be asking you by. All right. Two, three, four,

stop doing drugs. Stop doing drugs. Everybody, stop doing drugs. Stop sorting Coke. Stop sorting Coke. Everybody, stop sorting Coke. Stop shooting up. Stop shooting up. Everybody stop shooting up. Stop popping pills. They don't give you thrills. Everybody stop popping pills. Yo!