Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Hip-Hop, MLK, and Trump’s Second Inauguration

Episode Date: January 21, 2025

Van and Rachel open the show with Coach Prime, a.k.a. impressionist Sam Croker (8:38), before welcoming the chairman of the Democratic Party of Wisconsin, Ben Wikler, to discuss plans should he become chair of the DNC (27:43), and re-energizing the Democratic Party (33:12). Then, in-the-moment reactions to Donald Trump’s inauguration (1:02:10), and digging into Nelly, Snoop, Rick Ross, and Soulja Boy’s participation (1:14:55). Plus, Byron Donalds calls Trump ‘daddy’ (1:42:30). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guests: Sam Croker and Ben Wikler Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is the most attractive I've looked. I don't know why. I don't want to move. I don't want to move from this pose. I don't know how I was able to catch this. This is the most attractive I've looked in years. Look at the manliness of the sit. Look at hoot-nanny.

Look at my right bicep. You know what it really is, Donnie. Look at the blue. Look at the hat. He's by himself. No, it's not that. It's not that. I have not there.

Rachel. So he is like, I have taken up space. I look good. That's not true. Can I tell you what it is for you? That color is fantastic on you. Thank you very much. I appreciate that because I'm looking at myself right now and I'm feeling great.

Now look, normally when people look at this podcast, especially recently, let's talk about this. Now I'm back to regular. Let's talk about this. Real quick. I know we're not recording yet, but. Okay. No, I think we're all good. Oh, good.

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Higher learning is on. It is I Van Lathen Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. So, you're talking about, you guys can leave that in

in the pre-show right there. You guys have to watch, watch, like, and subscribe on YouTube, but you have to watch the video because I found the perfect pose. It showed off my right bicep. It was good. Rachel wasn't a fan,

but this is important to say, Rachel. For you. Okay. Okay. I think that, something has changed since you lost like 185 pounds. I did. I mean, I thought you were going to say thousands of dollars too.

And I was like, we guessed that, that, that too. But I've lost multiple things. Because every single clip now, the rage thirst is off the charts. It's nuts. Can I tell you why I don't believe you? Because nobody comes at me like that. Now, I know we've had this conversation and you say that I'm intimidating to people,

but I hear you say that and I'm like, nobody's even coming at me in that way. My dance card is not full. People are trying to hollering me like that. It's because you're lying dancing. But, so, but it's not, but I'm not, Everybody that watches the podcast, everybody that watches the video,

the clips to put out, Rachel will come out there, Rachel will be saying some wild shit. Rachel would be like, I think black men should be castrated at age 17. And the niggas in the comments will be like, oh my God, she can take my balls.

That's so much. Do you think that you've had like a post-breakup glow-up? For sure. I think that you don't really, realize when you're internalizing so much stress and trying to overcompensate for the, you know, for the situation at hand, because things aren't really the way that you're portraying them, I think that it has an effect on you. My skin is better. My hair is longer. I lost weight. And then I feel like I gained it back in the right places. I just, you know, I feel lighter.

That's right. I said that. That's right. I just feel very light. And, um, you know, I feel like, very carefree, and that's probably what is within. So it's coming on the outside. Oh, you know what I have to ask you? Work isn't as stressful, you know? It's inauguration day. Rachel is in Atlanta for the college football national championship. I'm here in studio by myself.

I haven't asked you something. Okay. You dodged. It's inauguration day. We're going to talk about it. Obviously, this is going to be a Trump-heavy political show. We have Ben Wickler, uh, joined, us who is running to be chair of the DNC,

a new era of Democrats, could be coming in. Can they fix things? Are things irreparably broken? We'll find out from him. We also have Coach Prime, Dionne Sanders, who's going to be joining us on the show in a little bit. You guys have to watch the show

to get the full experience of Coach Prime, who's going to be showing up in a little bit. There is a silver lining for you. you today. What is that? In Trump's inauguration. What's that? The A.K.A.A.S. didn't win.

Okay. Never even crossed my mind. But, but, you know what? In the same way that Trump aims to divide us, that's what you do to the D-9. There's no beef between me and the Aca's. Not at all. But for some reason, you want to constantly make it an issue. We love each other.

We support each other. It's worship. No. You are an outsider. You aren't a part of D9. You really want to be. You really want to be a part of the divine vibe. You do.

There you go. Okay. The disrespect. Make sure you guys watch the podcast this van is emits. It's always the omegas. He's imitating. He's imitating the omegas. He's throwing up the hooks.

He's got his tongue out. He's shiming now. He's throwing up Theo. Ben, you are such a wannabe. Why you just don't pledge? It's never too late. It's never too late.

You got your Sigma blue on. It looks good on you. But see, the deal is this. I went to an HBCU. So maybe at the University of Texas, there wasn't that much because it was only like five to ten members of all the sororities and fraternities there. but I've seen straight up fights, physical altercations.

So you can't tell me there's nothing between them. It's essentially gangs with Greeks. Okay, there's no beef as I am an adult. And I sit here. When I was at UT, I watched a full-on fight at a pool party between the Deltzes and the A.K.A. From University of Texas, full-on fight. It's not the art. Delta's Juan.

It's Coach Prime here. We got Deion already? No, not yet. Still waiting. He's not here. To be expected, to be expected, right? Yeah. I would expect Coach Prime to show a fashion blay.

Yeah, a little bit. He's got a lot going on. He could be the coach of the Dallas Cowboys. We're going to talk to him about whether or not he wants to be the coach of the Dallas Cowboys. Rachel says she doesn't want him as coach the Dallas Cowboys. We're going to talk to him a little bit about that later on. Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also be develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling?

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Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See terms at fanduel.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. Just before we get into it though, Rachel, you know, inauguration day, it was a day of doom for a lot of people. what are your general feelings as you watch the proceedings happening this morning? I really don't feel anything. I feel nothing.

I'm trying to step into, as I step into 2025, to really not get so mad about stuff. You know, people voted for him. He is the president. I mean, I'm not, you know, saying I'm a supporter of Trump. I'm just saying I'm not going to get mad over it. It is what it is. So as I watched the inauguration, I did think to myself, my God, I'm too petty. I would not have shown up.

There's no way that I could have been there and clapped my hands and stood up for him, all just to be a part of the popping circumstance of it all. I couldn't have been the bigger person in this situation. I just wouldn't have shown up. I just, I don't care enough about any of it. So when you ask me how I feel, I truly feel nothing. I did feel something when I saw the great late Martin Luther King Jr. reincarnated as he prayed for our country on stage. I did feel a little bit of something then.

We're going to get into it. We're going to talk about the inauguration. We're going to talk about some of the backlash from Snoop and Nellie. We're going to talk about Byron Donald's, who has been adopted. We're going to talk about TikTok. We're going to talk about. Such of different things on the show today. But first, I think he's in the waiting room.

Let's bring in Coach Prime, Dionne Sanders, college football national championship game tonight. Martin Luther King Day, a lot of stuff happening. Let's see if Coach Prime is willing to talk to us about a fantastic season from Colorado this year. A lot of talk as the NFL season is drawing to a close about Coach Prime, potentially becoming the coach.

of the Dallas Cowboys. We have Dionne Sanders joining us today. Coach Rom, do you want to coach the Cowboys? Will you be the coach of the Cowboys moving forward? Well, let me just, first of all, let me just say this. Thank you for having me on yourself. First of all, this is the thing right here. I had this interview with Jared.

But the thing about it is that I like where I'm in Colorado. I already told them the only way that I would consider coming and being a part of the NFL. is if I can coach, both my son. Not just one. Both. But the thing about it is that.

But think about that, that's kind of going to be a little bit difficult to do. So I don't really see myself coming there. So the answer right there is, no. I like Colorado,

man. I like where I'm at. Okay, okay. Okay. I am the resident Dallas Cowboys fan. And I'm going to be very honest with the coach. Okay. I am a fan of,

of you. I'm not necessarily a fan of you coaching the team. So I'm a little, I'm a little pleased to hear you say no. But I'm shocked that you would want to stay at Colorado because now you won't have either one of your sons to coach. So I think a lot of people are surprised that you would want to stay. What makes you, what do you think you're going to do at Colorado now that you say you're going to stay? You're not going to have your star quarterback. Not going to be coaching Shiloh either. What are you going to be your plans for the future buffs? Well, the thing about it is this. I like grooming and mentoring young men

so they can go on and be the best that they can be. It's not really about being in a particular place. See, I'm not going to a location. I'm going to a destination. I want to be working out. See, that's the thing about that. It's not really being about here and there and everyone. It's not about none of that.

It's about being in your calling. It's about being doing what you do. I love what I do. See, I love what I do. I love what I do and I love how I do it. So I'm going to continue to do that. I don't want to be all over here. I know a lot of people, you can't believe that thing you here.

There are a lot of things people are saying, but you got to understand. I like where I hand. I like where I am, and I like doing what I do. So I don't continue to do that. Colorado, we got something going. Yeah, we won't have what we had last year. But we got something available on.

Each year we keep getting better. And I like that. I like that. Coach, Brian, what do you say to the people that say you took advantage of an easy schedule last year and the people who don't believe in what you're doing up there in Colorado saying that you can't possibly continue to win

without Shadour, without Travis Hunter. What do you say to those people? Well, the thing about it is right here. First of all, if you look at that schedule, they ain't going to go together. With the things that we had to play, especially in the beginning, there was a lot of things that we had going on.

Then you've got to understand. We got really a lot of the player A lot of players left. A lot of players were not the same player that were there just the year before. So you've got to understand there's a lot of changes going on.

But now as far as the schedule, you've got to understand something. It ain't easy. It ain't easy at all. It ain't an easy situation that you got to understand that. It's not easy. It may look easy to this,

but it ain't easy. When you're talking about waiting on, everybody, different, all new coaching staff, everybody. We changed up everything. So it's not an easy situation.

That's the people on the outside looking in. That's all different situations. See, they don't really know football. They don't really know football. See, the thing is this. See, I don't hate on nobody, but I don't wait on them about it. That's how you got to do that. You keep on moving.

And so you keep doing. So they said in the beginning, now think about this. They said coach prime coach. They should just do it wasn't even going to be a draft fit. Think about that. They said, what you're going to do? He ain't even, he ain't even that. He comes from the HBCM.

How are he going to do this over here? They always doubt it. See, but I like that. I like when they doubt. Because I'm going to rule you wrong. I'm going to do what I do. So we just keep doing what you do. We don't let the naysayers control what we do.

Let's say you do that. Speaking of naysayers, oh. No, go ahead, Rachel. Okay, I was going to say, speaking of naysayers, you and Travis Hunter have a really close connection. It's really beautiful to see. You know, your father figure to him. What advice are you giving him in the postseason?

Because people really seem to be coming at him for his, you know, personal decisions as well. What are you saying to him, Coach? I don't tell him to keep moving. This thing, don't stop. Don't stop. See, we saw that he took his, I believe, his social media down. See, the thing I realize is this. See, out in the yard, I see my dear, stuff like that.

See, if you stay. And still, you become a target. I told him keep moving. You're going to stop now. They're going to always be there. Hey, no, you're coming here and coming here. So when you're trying to get you like that, just keep moving. You've got to keep doing your thing.

You've got contracts, endorsements, all the kind of thing going on. You don't want to stop. Get that thing going. That's how you do that. He is like my son. He's him. He's that guy. I love him like my son.

I love it. He is him. And I love him in life. But you've got to understand something. I coach him like he is my son. I understand what he's going to. I understand mental. So I tell him, hey, look in it.

Keep him over. That's how you got to do that thing, man. You got to do that thing, man. You got to stay locked in. That's how you do that thing. Tell him. How you do it? You guys, that is actually Sam Crocker,

who is Atlanta's number one celebrity impressionist. I saw Sam on. Twitter, doing the Dionne Sanders impression. I just wanted to take the time out to spotlight the brother. Sam, you're funny as hell, bro. I went to your Instagram. I just wanted to give the people a little something to laugh at today. It's inauguration day, some people are feeling down.

So I wanted to give them something to laugh at, Sam. Thank you for joining us, man. Tell people where they can find you. Tell people what you got going on. It's funny as hell. It's spot on, Dion. Tell people what you got going on, brother. Oh, man.

I'll tell you what. I appreciate y'all having me on, man. Thank you for spotlighting me and, you know, bring me on. Man, it's a bit of journey, man. You know, everybody can, you know, my name is Sam C impressions, or you can just call me Sam C. But if you look up anything, Sam C impressions, you're going to see, you know, most of my information. You know, and this journey is just beginning, man. And I haven't really got out there.

So there's a lot of things. Like I want to do podcasts. I'm looking at be into some brand sponsorships and things that nature. So, you know, as well as, you know, working with Coach Prime himself, I had an actual opportunity to one of his producers of his new show on, I got time today, reached out to me. And he wants to bring me on for a segment with that. So a lot of things in there's a lot of things. a lot of things we're looking forward to, but like I said, you know,

it's a journey that's just beginning for me. So, yeah, that's how we're doing. Brother, talent is under novel, man. We thank you for joining us. If there's any way, Sam, any way that I can be supportive of you because you made me laugh, brother, just hit us up and let us know

we would love, love, love to be a part of this journey. Spot on impressions. And we would love to have more of your celebrity friends back on the show in the future if you're down to kick it with us. Definitely. Definitely. All right, my brother. Thank you for joining us, man.

All right. Thank you. Sam. Just want to tell you, as I'm here in Atlanta, there's a huge protest going on down in the streets. Like, trying to take my headphones off to here. A huge protest in the inauguration? Yeah.

Which they had anticipated. Like, the security in downtown Atlanta is crazy. it's been like this for all weekend. And it was in anticipation of this, which I was like, why would they be here protesting? But they are. I'm trying to hear. Donnie, can you pick that up?

Do you hear that? I can't hear it. No, but your mic might be picking it up. I can't hear it on my end. Yeah. I don't know, but it is loud. I can't open up the windows. But yeah.

So you ask me, how on? doing, I'm chilling, but the streets of Atlanta are popping right now. They are not happy about the inauguration. Yeah. They're upset about it. It is, of course, MLK Day, a day where we celebrate, of all the

odd coincidences, a day where we celebrate the life of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Bernice King has said on MLK Day coincided with the Trump inauguration. It reminds us of King's spirit. Bernice is brilliant

and her words are always appreciated I can't help but feel a little sad for Dr. King today. Of course. And why, Van? Why do you feel that way? So I watched King in the Wilderness a couple of days ago.

If you haven't seen the documentary, it's a very good illustration of Dr. King's life. And there's also a book about Dr. King's life and about some of the the personal challenges and journeys that he went through as a man trying to carry the weight

that he carried while he was with us. And to watch how his life has been celebrated in the time that I've been here on earth, and to juxtapose that to the personal hell oftentimes that he dealt with in trying to take upon this prodigious task of freeing black Americans

and really all disenfranchising poor Americans from the bondage of the American nightmare to watch him go through all of that, realize that he wasn't going to live long, be taken from his family and to see us where we are right now it's profound

to me. So having come right off of that, it's always a fun day to celebrate Dr. King's birthday and celebrate who he was because it's a celebration of a part of the American dream

and not the American nightmare. But today I can't help to feel a little sad that we couldn't have done a little bit better for. Does it always fall on Martin Luther King Day? I don't know either.

I was really thinking about that. You know what? It's, for me, I agree with everything that you said, obviously. But it's hard to watch as you feel like, I'm sure that they would not say that they're making a mockery of him,

but to know what Donald Trump stands for and to know what Martin Luther King Jr. stood for, there's just such a contrast. And to see now President Trump talk about Martin Luther King Day, talk about how proud Martin Luther King Jr. would be of the way the country is today. And then to see everybody behind him,

not at all reflect the type of country, the type of ideals that Martin Luther King Jr. stood for, it feels like a mockery. It feels like Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. is a caricature. Like they make him out to be that. So watch this pastor Lorenzo get up and do a prayer where he is literally citing the words, Let freedom ring from every hill and every molehill

in Mississippi from every state, every city, every village, and every hamlets. And when we let freedom ring, we will be able to speed up that day. All of your children, black men and white men, Protestant and Catholic, Jew and Gentile will be able to sing in the meaning of that old Negro spiritual. Free at last, free at last. Thank you, God Almighty. We are free at last. It just felt like a theater act.

To see people, you know, on this day, post certain things, his words, and to use them out of context or post pictures when they really don't embody the things that he stood for, it makes it feel like such a joke, which to me feels very sad. Hmm. Yeah.

So, you know, to me, King was a radical truth-teller. A radical truth-teller. radical truth teller, someone that analyzed the condition of not just black people, but of American democracy, American standing in the world, and just literally told the truth. He did his thing in a way that has been lionized by the American in the world public in terms of, nonviolence and nonviolence being a way to win hearts and minds. perhaps that was the way. There are other people, Robert F. Williams, Stokely Carmichael,

that didn't believe that nonviolence was the only path forward to black American citizenship. However, the way that King did it, he didn't do it in a passive way. He did it in a disruptive way, a disruptive way that didn't involve taking up arms, because you can be disruptive without taking up arms, of course. However, he fucked with their plan. That's important for people to remember. He fucked with the plan. He stopped the business as usual status quo

from occurring in America. And anytime you do that, during that pause in business, that pause in the status quo, you make the country consider its condition. So he was very much a rabble rouser. He was very much into good trouble. He was very much someone who was counterculture from the standpoint that he went against

the grain, against popular sentiment, even within community sometimes. So it's important to remember all those things about him. I just think that the fairy tale that's been told about Dr. King has been one to make him palatable to white American domination sometimes. Like the guy that you could beat on until you fell in love with him. And that's just not who he was. And as we had Martin Luther King Jr. the third on the podcast a couple of years ago, and we talked about the poor people's campaign and how Dr. King later on in his life

was down to shift his focus to world matters such as Vietnam and economic matters such as economic justice, and maybe that was a bridge too far for the American establishment that had to kill them because you can't have four people being empowered in this country or being, or even feeling like they have equal say in this country. It tells you how they would rather have King dead at 40 so they could tell his story than King alive at 80 so he could tell it himself. Right. So, you know,

That day, I mean, this day happening now, and Donnie's putting in the chat, it's only been on MLK Day once before 1997, this day happening today, and it being coinciding with Dr. King, it's interesting. You know, we're going to, it's interesting to think about what this country,

what he wanted the country to look like and kind of what it is now, you know. So, I don't know, that's, that's, I'm still going to celebrate Dr. King Day and go home. I'm going to celebrate by playing college football 25 all day long. You're not going to watch the game? Yeah, later. Later.

I have a podcast to do. Let's say this to Joy Taylor. I'm doing Joy Taylor's podcast tonight. And I want to say this to the people at Joy and Joy Taylor's podcast. Right, Joy Taylor scheduled this podcast at the same time that the college football national championship games coming out. We have to move the podcast up. God. Why? Joy knows better.

I don't. She has to. In her defense, this is the first year that it has been this late. So I'm going to give her that. It's never been this late before. All right. That is a little bit on MLK. We got a lot more. This is going to be a robust podcast.

But on the side of this break, we got Ben Wickler joining us, who is running to lead the D.N. and God damn it do they need some answers we're going to have been here in a second and we're going to see if we can get to the bottom of what the Democrats need to do

Rachel's a big Democrat what? Okay see my internet just kicked off and I came back to you saying I was a big Democrat I'm an independent we're going to take a break we're coming back This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess.

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And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business to keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. Okay, guys, it is inauguration day, a day that a lot of people are dreading, but this is the reality. Okay, the Democrats are poised to perhaps fight back. We'll see. Under new leadership, and we have someone who is vying for leadership of the Democratic Party right now, joining us today on higher learning. He's organized a political figure and chairman of the Democratic Party in Wisconsin since

July 2019, Ben Wickler joins us today on higher learning. Ben, how are you doing, man? Ben, thanks so much for having me. Rachel, thanks for so much for having me. I'm doing well under the circumstances. The problem is the circumstances, which are so, I mean, having Trump getting sworn in on Martin Luther King Day is kind of mind-bending. Having Cecil Richards pass away is really tragic on this particular day. watching Trump line up with the people who control the biggest sources of information

for the vast majority of the country who own basically propaganda networks and then try to rig the country against just about everyone who works for living in this country, like, no matter what they look like or where they live, this is going to be a tough, this is going to be a tough era that we are entering. And I'm fired up for the fight and also recognize that it is going to be a huge challenge. So that's how I'm doing. There's a lot. How are you guys doing today?

I'm okay. I'm interested in how you're going to fight. Like, it seems like there's been a lack of fight from the Democrats in the last, I don't know, four to six years. Maga seems to be dominant. We are at the end of the Empire Strikes Back right now, it seems like. If elected party chair, what are you going to do to fight? against what seems to be an unstoppable behemoth on the right? So I think that part of the way that Democrats lost Brown with a lot of people,

and when I say lost Graham, to be clear, I think there's a lot of media narrative that is not actually tracking the data, and specifically black women turned out for Harris at like 92% support. And so that the central issue is, that is one turnout, and then two, that there's also been. and some slip among a bunch of different parts of the electorate, among men across race and ethnicity, basically working people,

black women who have remained the backbone of the Democratic Party. Working class men and, you know, Latino women and white women and Asian American women and men and women, across the country, Democrats did less well, both in terms of turnout and in terms of persuasion than they have in a bunch of years. And to me, the central reason for that, is that people haven't seen the Democratic Party

fighting against the ultra-rich who are trying to rig this country against everyone else. And the Republican narrative has been to say that someone else is getting something so you're not. And to make it, you know, this time it was trans people. Before that, it was critical race theory and it was, you know, telling white people,

black people were taking their stuff. It was immigrants. It is like whoever that them is. To hide the fact that Trump is ripping off every working person across race and ethnicity. And when you don't see Democrats, fighting back against the people who are trying to jack up their prices and undermine their wages, then people fall victim to this kind of propaganda from Republicans. And so the way that we change that is by showing when Republicans come for working people

across the country, across all our communities, that we have to fight back in a way that people can see and feel that we're not going to let Republicans undermine their basic security, their access to the food that they need to eat and the medicine that they need. And I think that kind of fight that we did when the Republicans came for the Affordable Care Act and Medicaid and under Donald Trump in his first term, and that 20 years ago, Republicans tried to privatize Social Security and Democrats fought back. I think that kind of fight in the streets and organizing and protest at the ballot box in every media platform that any American pays attention to, that that's how we can win back trust. that people can see that Democrats actually, like, stand up for something. And if we don't do that, then people are going to wonder what's the point of the Democratic Party at all.

Like, a lot of people have a lot of cynicism. And I, you know, I hear this from the people who are the furthest from power and money, especially. And this is across race and across geography that people feel like the Democratic Party is concerned with something else. someone else, it is a group of people who have already got a made who are just talking to each other as opposed to actually understanding the struggles people have in their lives.

And I think that that's what we need to change if we're going to change the direction of our party and be able to stop Republicans from turning this country into an oligarchy where Trump and his like multi-billionaire for our right friends get to call all the shots for all of us. I like that your campaign is unite, fight, and then when? because I think that the unite and the fighters are two of the biggest issues. It seems to be, the party just seems to be completely disjointed. And then when it comes to the fight, a lot of times on this podcast, we talk about the messaging

from the Democrats. And for some reason, it just doesn't seem to trickle down. And I'm wondering how you will tackle that issue, how you will fight against that because I think it also feels like too often the Democrats play nice or are all about taking the high road or doing things by protocol. When we see the other side doesn't do that at all. And so I'm wondering, do you think that that strategy as well when it comes to messaging needs to change in order to work against the current state or the Republican Party?

Mag? A thousand percent, Rich. I think we have tried. We've tried playing nice and taking the high road. And it hasn't worked. And that's because the other side is not universal. unilaterally disarming. Like, Republicans are going to use everything they can to try to, you know, take everything from

the rest of us. And that means that for us, we have to not only say what we're for, but also explain what they're for and what they're trying to do. We have to name the bad guy. And there are, like Elon Musk, like the multi-billionaire cabinet that Donald Trump surrounding himself with, who make their living by trying to, like, propaganda as the whole country and turn people against each other. and then, you know, fire striking workers and, like, you know, attack community after community

after community in order to scoop up money and make themselves invulnerable, to escape, you know, any accountability for when they just break the law flagrantly all over the place, to create a country where a few people get everything and make the rules for everybody else. And we have to be able to show that we are actually, that we understand the price. problem, that we understand who's trying to do this, and then we're going to fight back against it, even if those people are going to come at us. When I think about how people build trust with the party, it's not just when they say things that are nice and people nod. And I think often Democrats can get into this place if they look at a poll and they say, oh, you know, everyone likes, you know,

the idea of a middle class tax cut, so we're going to save reformed middle class tax cut and then stop it there because if you say anything else, then, you know, it pisses somebody off and, look, you know, everyone supports us when we say this nice thing. But you actually have to say that there are multi-billionaires who are trying to raise taxes on working people in order to cut taxes for themselves. We're trying to rig the tax code and cheat on their taxes to rate the country for a handful of the richest people in the world who are already, like, incredibly wealthy. And that that's the reason why we can't have nice things for middle class people is that there's a group of people that make money from the fact that we can. And that is going to piss some people off. And that has to be okay.

I think that the other thing, alongside speaking honestly and clearly about what we're up against, is that we have to do it in places where people who are not obsessed with politics actually understand the world. And I think, you know, one reason I'm grateful for your show and what you do is that you talk to people about things other than politics as well as politics. People spend time thinking about culture. They think about art and music. They think about sports and fitness and fashion and beauty and money management and all the things that make up. the richness of our lives. And Democrats spend a lot of time,

and I'm guilty of this myself. I go on MSNBC, and MSNBC is great. But the people who don't see Democrats fighting are often the people who are not watching MSNBC and are tuning into other places that speak to other aspects of what matters to them. And I think Democrats need to break out of the bubble

of just politics. We should be showing up everywhere. We should be communicating online across all the different social platforms. We should make sure people are spreading the word in the group chats that they're in. And as we've done this in Wisconsin in a big way, we do investment on a year-on basis in, you know, in black radio newspapers, in working with influencers who are on, you know, TikTok and a bunch of different platforms, which now is, I guess, unbanned. And Donald Trump is claiming credit for that. But there's all these different places where people actually make sense of the world.

And Democrats need to not only talk to each other in places that are safe for, for, for, for. or people who all agree with each other about everything already. We need to be out making the case to people. And that is both the people who might sometimes think about voting for Republicans, but also most importantly, people who might wonder whether Democrats actually see them and care about them and are going to fight for their support and fight for things that matter in their lives.

And that's where I think we need a kind of a change in how the DNC works. We need to work with a more diverse group of consultants and vendors and communicators. We need to be working in states and not just in Washington, D.C. And we need to think about how the trust that turns into votes at Election Day needs to be built in the years before that by showing people that we're there with them when they're there with them when they feel that they're under attack, when they feel like the chips are down, when they feel like the cost of just getting through the day is spabling out of control that we're fighting shoulder to shoulder with them all the way through. If we can do that, I think we can earn a lot more votes. We can win more offices and then we can actually make change that proves that that trust is well deserved. Ben, I like you. Thank you, man.

I'm going to be a little long-winded here. I'm going to introduce you to my father, who I talk a lot about on this podcast. So my dad ran a business, small business, subcontracting, concrete finishing, but he ran it with his family. So the whole family of black men from Maryland, Louisiana, we all poured concrete. And it didn't always go good. right? Because sometimes you have, whether it was rest in peace, Uncle Pete or Uncle Craig or whomever,

sometimes they didn't agree, right? Sometimes it would get contentious. And one day, we're bidding a job, we're bidding a contract, and there are different ideas on how much we should charge for the concrete. And we can't do it together. We can't do the job with your uncle or your cousin, whatever. And my dad said something, my dad goes, fuck him. My dad goes, fuck him. And I'm like, wow, you would say that about so and so and so and so?

Well, he goes, well, they're saying, fuck me. So if it's fuck me, it's fuck them. Now, I bring that up because I think that's a hard sentiment for Democrats. Democrats understand that America works in this great big thing, this great, big ball of sentiment with everyone. And it's hard for them to just be like, you know what? You guys want to take Bali autonomy away? Fuck you.

You guys want to empower oligarchs to control all of our media, all of our financial systems. You want to enrich yourself. Fuck that. It's just hard for you guys to go, fuck them. Fuck that idea. Fuck the whole thing.

I'm empowering you right now. Elon Musk Fuck him Like Vivek Ramoswamy Fuck him Donald Trump Fuck him Like all of those guys

Ben you can say it right now Fuck those guys Man That America will understand If you guys on the other side Get a little dirty They'll get it They'll forgive you

They're empowering you guys To go to the mattresses for them Just say it Fuck Elon Musk. If someone wants to take away of freedom, someone wants to rig the economy against working people across this country, fuck him.

We should be... That's what I'm talking about. That's what I'm saying. Did that feel good, Ben? Ben, did that feel good? We don't have to play nice when everything that we are is being taken.

We don't have to be nice about it. Ben, you felt free right there. You're with it, Ben. Wait off your shoulders. Do you feel like the Democratic Party has enough of that right now? No, it does not have enough of that right now. The way people talk in their real lives is the way Democrats should talk. We should actually connect with people.

So often in politics, people are using this very carefully crafted language. And then the cameras turn off or the microphone. turn off and then the real stuff comes out. It's like actually, no, just bring that to the actual conversation because voters are looking for whether you actually give a shit, whether this is all just a game for you. And it is not a game in people's real lives. Like when you can't get the health care that you need

and your life is in danger, the people who love you and you are not, you're not message testing everything. You're fucking furious. Yes. If Democrats don't show that that's actually how big the stakes are, then why should anyone trust Democrats to be able to fight for them? And the same thing. When you get hit with a medical bill or you're trying to fill a prescription and discover that you can't do that if you're going to be able to fill up your gas tank and drive

home, that is because someone is ripping you off. That is because someone has the power to screw you over and you don't have enough power to stop them. And it's infuriated. And it can make you want to either punch through a wall or curl up into a ball. And Democrats have to be completely crystal clear that it's not acceptable, that it is not okay, and that we're going to fight with everything we've got to try to change that. And the thing that I think the Democratic Party can lose sight of is that that kind of like anger and actually like being ready to be in the fight, it will mean that there are some people that may say that this, you know, is not the party for them, this is not civil enough or what have you. But there's a lot more people who will be like,

Finally, someone said it and you'll actually want to get involved and get involved in the fight that way. You have to be willing to lose support for some people who would like everything to be so tidy and so neat in order to win the votes of a lot more people who are just looking for an actual fighter who's going to be in the arena with you. And that's, I think, where we've got to go as a party. Yeah, how do you take, I love this. How do you take that energy and spread it throughout the party? because I almost feel like internal rebuilding is more important, because I think if you have that, then it will help with the fight against the other side.

I feel like that's the focus. And there seem to be so many people, like Van and I both, I don't know, Van, I identify as an independent. And there's so many people who have left the party because there is this lack of trust. So how do you take that energy, not just spread it throughout the people who hold the power that are in the positions as Democrats,

but also the internal rebuilding to bring people back to the Democratic Party. So it starts with knowing what the fight is and being clear about that in conversations. And what I'm struck by, you know,

I'm running for DNC chair right now. I'm having hundreds of phone conversations and meeting people and having these conversations. And right now people get the assignment. People, there's a shared sense that we have lost this trust that we're only going to win

if we can win it back. And I do think this is a party that's ready to jump into the fight in a different way. Now, that is within members of the DNC. There's a lot of other people involved in Democratic politics in lots of different ways. But I think that the asset test in the moment that's going to matter is going to be when that first big fight comes,

which is like Trump is about to start doing terrible things today. He's going to sign a million executive orders. There's going to be, he's going to throw many things against the wall. And we're going to have to choose some fights where we just throw everything in to try to stop. And I know this because I lived it last time Trump came in. There was this whole conversation within the Democratic Party about like, where do we fight? And I was part of the fight against the refill of the Affordable Care Act of Obamacare, which I think Trump had promised over and over in his campaign and said he would do on day one. And they'd practice the votes and

they'd done all this stuff to try to get ready. And we just started to mobilize. This is people across the country in their congressional districts. This is unions on the front lines. And This is so many people, especially people with disabilities and people who had parents of kids with complex medical needs who were coming with their kids with trinks and, you know, kids in who needed ventilators to be able to breathe who were going to congressional offices and saying, if you do this, my child is not going to be able to survive. And we, it took making it personal and vivid and real and showing how big the stakes were. And we organized people across the country whose lives were on the line to go to town hall to the Republican members of Congress and say, if you pass this, I will die. I'm alive right now because we have this law. And that changed the kind of conversation from being about percentages and, you know, congressional votes to being about real life. And that to me is the way that we change this in terms of the culture of how we communicate has to shift to the real stakes for people with the people who are directly affected, you know, speaking directly about. what the stakes are for them. It's, I got a press list line. The people closest to the pain need to be closest to the power.

That is true also for how we communicate. And that's something that structurally, within the organization of the DNC, like who we work with to be able to build those messages, but also building a war room that works with storytellers across the country, people who have directed those experience that is going to be affected by this work. And then we try to define what the news is. We don't just follow whatever it is that Trump said yesterday or his latest tweet or be offended that he, you know, made fun of this or that person,

like actually bring it to the people who are affected by the policies and so that we're fighting on that and then bring that accountability to Republicans. We work with state parties to build the kind of team that can do that. We work at the national level to do that. We work with elected officials who, you know, they're Democratic governors, mayors, you know, in cities across the country. There are members of Congress who are, you know, they're embedded and connected to the communities that are on the line.

And we need them out front speaking to this. in a way that when someone's watching who hates politics, who doesn't trust politicians, who thinks that anytime someone who has a D or an R next to their name is talking, they're probably just trying to get a campaign contribution, we need to communicate in a way that someone who's watching your show or any other show is like, hey, hold on a second. What did they just say?

And like, this is the real thing. And when that happens, this is the last thing I'll say on this, as a party, the way that we can try to change the culture and the way our party communicates so that this happens. happens more often is that when that happens, when those breakthrough moments happen, we send the video to everybody else who wants to be on TV. And we say like, this is how, this is it. This is how it. This is how it's done. Like, look how viral this is going. Look how much energy there is here. Because, you know, people in politics often are fighting for the right thing.

They spend every day going to work, trying to, you know, make something happen for, for, you know, for working families, for their communities, trying to stop these massive tax tips for the rich. They send out press releases. They post tweets. No one hears it. No one, his attention. And it can feel incredibly frustrating and dispiriting to feel like you're actually in this for the right reasons. And yet you get no credit, you get no recognition. So if we help people figure out how to break out of that, I think a lot more people are going to do it. And I think we can build the kind of positive energy that leads to a ton of communicators, a ton of people who are showing that they're on the front lines in a way they can help to rebuild trust and show people

who don't have that trust, whose side Democrats are on. If we can do that, we can win votes, We can win trust. We can actually make change. I got two more questions for you. They're both like going to be in the same vein. Your slogan is unite, fight, win. Unite is very important right now. I think that there have been a lot of people

that have been really energized by your candidacy for the NC chair because you represent a little bit more of a left-of-center approach to politics. There is a huge schism right now. between people who describe themselves as leftists and the more moderate wing of the Democratic Party. I mean, it's playing out everywhere, right? Online, I don't know if you know, there's beefs everywhere.

TYT is going MAGA, they say, Sam Cedar and MRO over there, holding the line, Hassan, Mark Lamont Hill. There's all this talk on the left side about who really like upholds these ideals and who doesn't because that fracture amongst the talking heads is demonstrative of a real fracture that exists in the party. Things like Israel, Gaza, things like campaign donations, big money and politics, all different types of issues that the left cannot get on one a court on.

How do you address that? The central way that we're going to unite is when we see a fight that speaks to what our fundamental values are, the coalition that we want to build, the kind of party we want to be that is against people who don't want us to be that kind of country that actually works for everyone.

And then we pour everything into that fight in the way that then energizes people to come along. My experience is that the way that you bridge difference is by having a common goal and sometimes a common enemy. It's by finding that moment when it's like, you know what? We've been fighting each other tooth and claw, but we all have to get together for this moment to actually do something together.

And so often those kinds of riffs are based on, you know, trust that's been broken down and, you know, moment after moment after moment where people feel like someone turned on them, someone didn't keep a promise, someone didn't, you know, that there's disagreements about values, but so much more than that. It's often that there's a disagreement where you're willing to believe the worst of someone else who might agree with you

90% of things, but there's been a cleavage that can't be repaired just by talking about that cleavage. And I think our job, the job of the Democratic Party right now is to say, look, even if so many of us are furious at each other, we have to like focus on this bigger fight that's going to make a difference to everything that all of us care about. And that, that has been my practice. When I was at move on in my job before, I was the chair of the Democratic Party of Wisconsin and my work now at the Democratic Party of Wisconsin, all the riffs that exist across our coalition are played at it, state after state after state. In every state party, you can see this.

But it's also the case in Wisconsin. We had a state Supreme Court that rubber-stamped voter suppression, that rubber-stamped attacks on unions and the right to organize, that legalized corruption by Republicans in power that did nothing to touch this pre-Civil War abortion ban that took away freedom from people across the state. And everyone came together. for what wound up being the most intense, most expensive judicial race in American history, where every right-wing dark money group was just flooding the airwaves with ads.

And we organized and we fought and we flipped our state Supreme Court. And now Wisconsin is in the process of being unrigged. We've gotten voting rights back. We've ended the gerrymandered maps. We have a chance to win a trifecta control of our state government here because we all came together in that fight. We have another fight like that, by the way, coming up on April 1st in Wisconsin. The fight continues from year to year.

But by bringing everyone together and saying, like this, we have to come together on. We have to hold hands in this fight. We were able to do something that seemed so far out of reach for so many years in our state. And we're going to have fights like that now across this entire country. And it is the connection between United Fight that I think allows us to win, that when we can see that our fates depend on each other, that even when there's so much that divide us, there's actually a much deeper core bedrock of solidarity that challenges. us to be able to come together in a bigger way. That's what builds us as a party,

built us as a coalition as a movement to actually create the kind of change that we need. And that is my goal and that is also my core belief in politics, that if you believe that every person deserves freedom and dignity and respect, then we actually have to fight shoulder to shoulder on the biggest fights to be able to make this place work for everybody. I've been, I think you're great. Also lived in Wisconsin for three years as well,

to Marquette University. Just wanted to big up Wisconsin for a second. Spit some time in Milwaukee. Ben, I don't know if you had another question. I was just going to say, now one more. Okay, go ahead. Go ahead.

Ben, I'm going to twist you up a little bit now. Okay. You're vying to be the leader of the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party's most stable base, despite reports, still Black Americans. Black women, 92%. Black men could argue that it's eroding, but still overwhelmingly,

supportive of the Democratic Party. You cannot say voting rights, you cannot say criminal justice reform. What directly does the Democratic Party need to do to reward black Americans

for their support of the party? Give me tangible policy besides voting rights, besides criminal justice reform, that you think needs to be enacted to address some of the contemporary and historic disparities that Black Americans face economically, environmentally, and politically. I think the biggest thing is bringing this economy so that it works for working people. When you look at economic policy, let's start with housing. The biggest source of racial wealth and income inequality is actually housing.

And that goes back to housing covenants. and it goes back to residential segregation. But now it's about housing supply and the ability of people that actually be able to afford to have a place to live so that they can, to be able to buy homes so that they can build wealth over time. And there's a bunch of things we need to do on this.

One is, as Vice President Harris argued, we need to build a ton more houses. We need to change the laws around how houses get built. So we actually build houses that are affordable to people who are buying them for the first time. And then we need things like baby bonds that Senator Booker's been a huge champion of so that people,

no matter what they look like when they're born, it doesn't depend on having generational wealth to be able to build the wealth to be able to afford a down payment. And the policies that have the policies that build wealth for black Americans wind up being good for the economy for everyone of every income. Man, can I stop you? Can I ask you a question? Is it bad politics to say, I'm just asking,

is it bad politics to say, we want to do something for black people. Because it seems as if when that question is asked, what is going to be done specifically for black people for the overwhelming support that black people give the Democrats, that the answer we get is a broadening of it. And that's fine. I understand that. But is it okay to say we recognize that one group

of our constituency, a largely supportive group to us, needs help, and we're going to do stuff specifically for them. It seems like sometimes the Democrats balk at that. Am I being hypersensitive to that? Or can you keep real with us about whether or not they need to hone in on securing

the votes and the loyalty of this group that has been so historically loyal to the party? So I think of it slightly differently in the following way. Okay. I don't think Democrats should like provide benefits to black Americans to reward them for their loyalty. I think Democrats should make, should address fundamental racial inequalities and, you know, present and historical discrimination and inequities because that is the right thing to do.

And that is how, and by doing that, Democrats can earn the ongoing support of black voters. And also that addressing policies that make that difference winds up being better for everyone. That if you start from the question of how can we build a country where the color of your skin doesn't determine how long you live, it doesn't determine what your income and wealth will be, whether your kids have a chance to have higher education, that the policy answers that you wind up getting

actually create a better country for everybody. And it's the right thing to start with, those who are harmed the most and those who our society is structured against the most, what kind of policy to actually help people to be able to thrive in their lives and in their communities? Those wind up having benefits

that work for everybody in a massive way. And so I think the politics of how I've responded to this and how Democrats should respond to this should demonstrate that it is not people, you know, it's not white people or Latino people losing something if Democrats do right by black Americans. America. It's actually you build a country that is better for for folks who aspire to build wealth, for folks that you want to get out of poverty traps. You build a country that is better for everybody

when you have a set of policies that work for black Americans. And I don't think we should be shy about saying that we're going to think seriously about how the society has been structured against black Americans and build policies to fix that. But I also think the way that we build a multiracial coalition that embraces those policies is by being clear that this. This is not a zero-sum game. This actually expands the pie for everybody. And this builds up the base. If you're a white person living in multi-generational policy in Appalachia,

we're not trying to take from you in order to address the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow and modern-day segregation and racism. In fact, we're going to build a set of policies that help you bring your family out of poverty at the same time because by understanding how it is that we've gotten to this place where things are so fundamentally stacked against black Americans, One, dismantling those systems of inequality and hierarchy, dismantling those systems benefits everybody. So I almost think of it as the reverse of what you're saying.

To me, thinking in a targeted way allows us to build things that build the floor for everybody. Wow. That's great. I tried to fuck with you been there. I tried to get you, Ben. Endorsements in recent weeks, Stacey Abrams, Michigan Democratic Party chair, LaVona Barnes, North Carolina Democratic Party chair. Anderson Clayton, Michigan Lieutenant Governor Garland Gilchrist, my boy.

Shout out to my God. Garland, I love you, brother. We need to have a podcast. Garland and I hosted a podcast together years ago. And he and I got the broadcast from the 50th anniversary of the March on Washington. He interviewed Jesse Jackson together. That is an amazing experience. And then he moved home.

And he was like, Ben, water's fine. You should do it. And that helped set me on this path to moving back to Wisconsin and doing everything I've been here and now running for DNC chair. So I owe a huge debt of gratitude to Garland. He's a great guy. Okay, that is Ben Wickler. Tell everybody, I think Rachel was going to ask this.

Rachel, you can take it. Oh, yeah. Just tell everybody where they can follow what you're doing, support what you're doing, so our audience can get behind you. Thank you. Rachel, Van, thank you so much. I'm really, really grateful for the chance to join you.

Anyone who wants to get involved in this race, go to Benwickler.com, B-E-N-W-I-K-L-E-R.com. You can follow me on Blue Sky at Ben Wickler. If you are still on Elon Musk's propaganda machine, then I'm not going to even name that particular website. And this is all hands-on deck time. There's like less than two weeks until the DNC chair's election. And then if I win the DNC chair's election,

then I really have things for everyone to do because we need everyone, everyone to jump into this fight. Everything we care about, all our communities are on the line. we have work to do and the fight is upon us. Thank you so much. No problem, brother. Thank you for making the time. We really appreciate you making the time to come talk to us, man.

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I'll watch the whole thing. We have to. We have to, right? I mean, it's not like, not that I expected anything big or different to happen. I just thought, you know, in order to prepare for this podcast, it was my duty to watch. So yes, I saw the whole. I'm trying to figure out what the takeaways are by watching it. I mean, I'll tell you the most shocking thing to me was the breaking news that popped in right in the middle of right as, you know, Trump's already walked in, everybody's seated. And then all of a sudden, I was watching MSNBC. So Rachel Maddahl comes in and talks about how Biden has decided to pardon his entire family. I thought that was, the timing of that was very interesting.

Took a little bit away from the inauguration, but at the same time showed that he didn't want to do it before. I don't think he wanted a Trump response. I think he just wanted to, it was his last, last thing he pulled off right before he turned it over to Trump to make sure that he protected his family because, and in the statement, they said, you know, his family has been subjected to so much when it comes to Donald Trump, to those that support Donald Trump. And he wanted to make sure that he protected his family as his last, you know, official act as president. I thought it was interesting. I wasn't expecting that. Yeah. You don't care.

We didn't get pardoned. Are you scared? I mean, nobody pardoned us. I mean, I wasn't expecting all of that. I'm serious. Nobody, we didn't get a pardon. Were you expecting to get one? No, I mean, like just us, like the people, like, you know,

they partner turkey every day on Thanksgiving day, they get a pardon. You know, the turkey don't get to go in the oven. We're going in the oven. We're going in the MAGA oven. All of us. To like a hundred and some odd million people going in the MAGA oven. Ain't nobody pardon us. It's like a...

I wasn't expecting that. But I get your point. I get your point. I don't begrudge him for making sure that his family is okay, being that Trump feels like he has a mandate and everybody is giving him seemingly unlimited authority to execute his will, his will be done. But when I saw that, I was kind of like,

well, damn, they're going to be okay. All right, cool. Like, fuck it, we ride, we ball. Fuck it, we ball, like my man from snow on the bluff. I don't know. It didn't make you feel any kind of way? No, it was, it was. It just, I was, if I felt anything about it, I felt the timing of it was interesting, but I didn't feel any kind of way.

As to be expected, if I was the president, I would do the exact same thing going out. I'm not expecting him to look out for us in that moment. He looked out for his family. No. Trump has said to the black and Hispanic communities, I want to thank you for the outpour and support. I won't forget you. We'll forge a society that's based, that it's colorblind. and based on merit.

There are only two genders, male or female. I'm not interested in a colorblind society. Yeah, I think we talked about how problematic that is. Yeah, I'm not interested in it. Because I think it's impossible and I think it's stupid. I don't think it makes any sense to have. I'll lay it out for everyone right now. When people say that I'm interested in a colorblind society,

to me, that is code for, I'm interested in a society that ignores the prodigious issues that it has based around race. For sure. For sure, for sure. He also sat up there and said that he acknowledged that it was Martin Luther King Jr.'s birthday, and he talked about how he's looking forward to making his dream a reality. What should think about that. I mean, I think if you're making Martin Luther King Jr.'s' dream,

dream of reality, you have to take the time to examine what he wanted. And what he wanted was a society where, like he says, the content of your character, right? But I think when people use that and they say, hey, it's society where, you know, the color of your skin means less than the content of your character. Okay. So let's look at that. Let's look at what that means.

So let's go back to like what we're talking about, right? So the color of your skin, content of your character. Let's talk about what the color of your skin means right now in America. It means right now that you're more likely to die in childbirth. You almost are certainly born with less wealth, right? You're more likely to be profiled. You're more likely to have poor economic outcomes. You're more likely to have poor environmental standards.

You're more likely to have your vote suppressed. You're more likely, you're more likely, you're more likely, you're more likely, you're more likely, you're more likely. So in order to have a country where the content of your character matters more than the color of your skin, you'd have to first address those things. And if you address those things,

then it really wouldn't matter if you were black. It wouldn't matter if you were black because a lot of the ridiculous disparities that you face wouldn't hinder you from American success. So that's not to say that, hey, you being, Dr. King meant, hey, I just want a country where you being black isn't a thing. He meant, I want a country where you being black doesn't hold you back to where the country is essentially a place where you're not born into a lesser situation. And that's not tied to historic and contemporary discrimination. And I think that's the part of it that gets lost.

I think they just want to be like, okay, it's fine. Kick the football down the road. Everything's cool. Everybody's, no, it's not. It's not. We've talked about it before. If you live in Boston, if you grew up in Boston right now and you're black, the average white family has $285,000 with the wealth.

The average black family has eight bucks. Like, that's not a society that's judging you based on the content of your character. You are having to do considerably more in that instance because you are black. So, no, it's a lot of things. So I don't think that he funded, I don't think that they fundamentally get it. Oh, I think they absolutely get it. I think it's just words that they can use to further their point of we don't need to be focused on color because even Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., based on their interpretation,

didn't see it as color. They don't want to pay attention to the reality of the situation. That's what makes that statement so interesting. So I'm looking forward to making his dream a reality, but they are ignoring the reality of it. As you just pointed out, statistically, that's not. truth, that doesn't make sense. So it's just, it's not funny, but it's just interesting that once again, they are, as we talked about at the top of the show, seems to be making a mockery of what it is that Dr. King really stood for in what he meant in order to fit their own narrative.

Sweeping immigration action as Trump pushes for an aggressive day of executive actions. It declares a natural emergency on the border. starts the process to end birthright citizenship, which is probably unconstitutional and the 14th Amendment won't allow them to do. It is unconstitutional. It is unconstitutional. It's a foreign terrorist organization, which is probably

the beginning to being able to attack those cartels with American military, sovereign nation there in Mexico. Suspended refugee resettlement. Clamp down on asylum claims, direct the attorney general to seek capital punishment for the murder of law enforcement officers and capital crimes committed by undocumented

immigrants. The silly shit like Gulf of America, Mount Denali, the Mount McKinley, blah, blah, blah, blah, undoing in an Obama order. There's probably going to be massive immigration raids as as soon as the day that this podcast

comes out Tuesday. So of all that stuff, like is there anything to everybody? Donnie Ashley, is there anything that jumps out at you as like tremendously concerning with all of these executive actions that probably will be signed over by President Trump, Emperor Trump. Well, like you said, the immigration stuff is probably going to go

into effect really soon. While people are listening to this, things are going to be happening. So, I mean, I think that's the most immediate of concerns, but I'm also, I think like everybody just on my toes, because this presidency, like the last one I'm sure, there's going to be stuff coming out of left field that we weren't even expecting. So just staying on my toes and keep my head

on the swivel. Yeah, I mean, it's hard to predict, like, to piggyback on what Johnny's saying, what is to come when you look at those people who were on stage with Trump and understanding, we know how quickly, and we'll talk about this later in the show, we talk about TikTok, but we know how quickly

Trump can change his stance when money is behind it. And that's all that was on that stage behind him is money. So it's almost scary to think how Trump will be influenced when money's behind. whatever the initiative is. But I think the thing that stood out to me the most when you start naming all the executive orders

that he plans to enact on day one, first thing I thought about were the dreamers. I thought about DACA. I mean, you know, to be a part of that, you know, you come over here as an undocumented youth and you apply to be able to work and have rights in this country, you have to acknowledge the fact that you're undocumented.

It's on record. So I just I that was my first thought is what will happen to them. I mean during Trump's first term, he tried to overturn that. With him pushing forward, wanting to end the birthright citizenship and, you know, taking such a hard stance on immigration and reenacting things that he put in place during his first term, I just think about them. People who have lived here their whole life. This is the only country that they know. And they've done things by the book.

and they're subjected to be deported now. Yeah. You? No, you don't care. I'm trying to, I still feel like, you don't care. You don't care. Well, I, for those of you who are listening and not watching, you got to see that's face. Like, he was trying to give a fuck and he couldn't find one to get.

It's, you know, love me. I'm going to stop bullshitting you guys on the podcast, man. I'm not saying that I bullshit you guys on the podcast. Just saying that there has. a version of me here that has tried to make sure that I hold coalitions together and say things in the most palatable and acceptable ways sometimes to make sure that I take everybody's feelings into account. And you know,

that's great. That's, you're supposed to do that. But when you get kicked in your nuts after you do it, you just, fuck it. Like, I, on a human level, I care about what's happening. I care about that. I, I care about that. that's a huge concern, but I care about it more because I think that these immigration raids, I think they'll happen in places where black people will be affected. I think that they'll happen in places by unsophisticated law enforcement who will put entire communities in harm's way. And I really do believe that. But in some of these cases,

I kind of feel like you get what the fuck you voted for. Well, that has to assume that every person voted for him. You know what I mean? Like, everybody who would be impacted by this actually voted for him. That's the assumption. So I guess I'm speaking to the people who did not. You're right. And it could be subjected to some of this.

Like that's a big assumption to assume that, yes, there was a big turnout of voters that can be impacted by these laws that voted for him, but not everybody did. So that's who I'm speaking to. I'm fucking with you. I get it. You're right.

Let's talk about these fucking rappers. Oh, man. No, no, no. Let's be clear. Let's talk about these black men rappers. I want to be clear. Why did that need to be, why? Because they're all black men.

And I want to ruffle feathers. I want to ruffle feathers. Because I want to point out the obvious. I want to ruffle feathers. It's not rappers. It's black men. And I don't care if y'all get bad at me for saying this. But it's true.

Let's look at these black men. Go ahead. Talk about you. Talk about it. That's not fair, though. And let me tell you why. Why is that not fair? Why is that not fair?

That's not fair because there have been other people in the past who have been canceled for this while everybody's making excuses for some of these brothers that have been doing this. And didn't get laid at the feet of black women. Trump had Trump. They crucified Christmette Michelle. They crucified, right? But no one like when it was Chrisette Michelle and it was Omarosa, and there was the other lady.

And Trump... I'm saying that Trump had some support from prominent black women before diamond and silk. We don't lay that at the feet of black women. I'm just saying, I don't know that that's fair to say black... You can't surprise them.

They were fucking rappers. Like when sexy red supported Trump, I didn't say, oh my God, look at black women and what they're doing. That's not, come on, man. Sexy Red spoke too soon because she then showed herself voting and said that she voted for Kamala Harris.

So let's please not throw sexy red in there. Let's please not throw sexy red. Okay, she got right. She got right. Let me ask you this. Maybe you weren't surprised at the fact that Soldier Boy, Rick Ross, Nellie, Snoop, supported Donald Trump by performing at some of the pre-inauguration festivities and thereafter. Maybe you weren't.

Maybe you were. But did it make you at all think, wow, look at these prominent black men, who are support, did you not, did that not cross your mind? Did it not? And I think it goes along with the narrative. There was this narrative. Like, yes, majority black men voted for Kamala Harris.

But there was a narrative of, you continuously saw black men questioning Kamala Harris, questioning whether or not they were going to vote for her. And to see these black men, some who vehemently said that they would not do, exactly what they're doing. We'll get into that. Throw their support behind Donald Trump.

It didn't make you think about that? About the narrative of black men supporting them? That's really what I'm saying, what I'm getting at. I love y'all black men. But we have to talk about it. There's something, man. I think it's hard not to look at them. It's hard not to think about it at all, of course, right?

But in terms of the specific identity of Snooprenelie, it's hard not to look at it at it. But I think I looked at it a different way, right? Can I have a little latitude to rant? Please. Because this is really conversational. I think you need to. I think you need to.

So I'll get to Nelly in a second because Nellie actually went on the godfather, Willie D. I don't give a fuck what y'all doing. Listen to Willie D. podcast. You're not going to hear, listen to me on Willie D podcast, man. One of the best situations, and I know maybe it's, the wrong time to be big enough rappers and telling how much like you appreciate. I went down to Houston did Willie Dee's podcast.

We was in cowboy hats, having drinks. I feel like I was in the fucking ghetto boys. But see, that's, that right there is what we're talking about. Like that feeling of me connecting with Willie Dee and what it meant feeling like I knew Willie Dee all of that time and being on this podcast. Now, he's a great brother. Stans up for the community. Does all kinds of stuff.

But that's right there is what is like Anneli or a Snoop is happening into. Back to what you were saying, though. I think I thought about something else. I didn't think about specifically black men, right? Because I'm, you know, look at you. Look at you. Uh-huh. I didn't think about specifically black man.

I thought about something else. I thought about not like us, the song. Right? But I didn't think about the not. And I didn't think about the like. Okay. I thought about the us. All right.

Because in the song, not like us, the us is the most in part. important part of it. What does the us mean? That at 40 million black people here in America, obviously there's an overarching us that is all of us and the ties that blackness shares. And that transcends, in my opinion, politics.

Being black transcends politics. Being black transcends religion. Being black transcends its historical identity here in America and worldwide, that just means a lot more than any of that. So it's not that you're not black because you do anything, right? It has nothing to do a black. You never say that Snoop is not black because he seemingly has decided to become Maga

or like align himself with Maga. You wouldn't say that. But the Us is still interesting because our Us is different than the us from like a lot of people. Years ago, Snoop was totally anti-Trump. viewing Trump as a racist threat to the entire country, even going so far as to call people who perform for Trump digaboos. Something happened then. Snoop then got something from Trump.

What he got was the pardon of a dear friend of his, Michael Harris, a Harri-O who was one of the founders of Death Row Records. And so Trump came through for Snoop. Right. Trump came through for Snoop. in a way that's not reflective of what he would do or could do for you. Does that sound anything like your life? No.

Your life. Does it sound anything like your life that the president would come through for you personally, like a personal favor? Can you get on the phone with the president? Any president, whether it be Joe Biden or President Trump. Can you get a favor from the president? Can you ask the president to come to your community? and address climate injustice,

address food despots, address police brutality. Can you get the president to get your dad out of jail, your uncle out of jail, your cousin out of jail? Can you get the president to do any of that stuff? You can't.

Because the us that I think about, when I think about that term, it also transcends blackness. The us that I think about is a group of people who have a specific politic which addresses problems that blackness presents in America.

Right? It's a group of people that addresses issues that black people and other disenfranchised, marginalized people care about. That's the us that I'm talking about. And that is not all of us.

It's not. And particularly hip-hop has a problem with us. Hip-hop has long wanted to be part of a club that doesn't have anything to do with solidarity, community, doesn't have anything to do with sharing. It's a club that pledges allegiance, in my opinion, to the oldest and most enduring tenets of American existence,

which are power, money, and whites. And when you look at how capitalism has been worshipped in hip-hop, When you look at how individualism, domination, have been worshipped in hip-hop, when you look at how subjugation of opponents, the lack of sharing, the lack of solidarity has been worshipped in hip-hop, to me, that indicates a very specific club that people want to be like. Nelly actually said Bill Gates, Donald Trump, let me in. That's in country grammar. That's in the song.

Let me into that club. Snoop has now joined. Nelly has now joined. You can't join. You're not invited to that. You're invited to be a part of the club that gets the crumbs from the spoils of all of those people. Snoop performed that the crypto ball.

I'm sure he was, I'm not saying he did it for money. He's prodigiously wealthy, but I'm sure that he was gifted some crypto. I'm sure that something. happen when you think about why you're disappointed. Don't think about being disappointed as a black person. Be thinking about disappointed

as a person who believes in freedom, bodily autonomy, the upward mobility of black people, the into white nationalist rhetoric and policy in American politics and government, and other things like that. And that's a betrayal from Snoot.

There's no way to couch it. There's no way to obfuscate or that's a betrayal by him. He got something out of it. Yeah. What you're going to get is the empowerment of people who don't give a fuck what happens to you. Yeah, I mean, obviously very well said.

I think, again, I am going to not get upset over these things. No, no, no, no, no. I know you're not. But typically I do. Like, I get very, very upset when I see. this because it's just very disappointing. You say don't look at it as a black person. I don't know how not to look at it because we just had, you know, we have a guest on who's talking about uniting, fighting in order to, uniting and fighting in order to win. That's the campaign slogan.

Constantly we see that we don't unite as a people and that we can be bought, we can other ourselves, and to see people who have been big up and represent something in the culture and in the community so easily bought for somebody who has done nothing but disregard us as a people, as a culture historically, talks about us as if we're animals. One way, you know, as he did in the inauguration, we'll say, oh, I'm so happy. I want to make this dream a reality. I'm about unity. But everything he does when given the time to execute things, divide us and degrade us. So the question I kept saying to myself was, do we not stand for anything? That's where like the disappointment comes to see people try to reason why they're doing something to justify it.

When at the end of the day, it really does. Maybe not for Snoop. I would love to know the reason Snoop did it. I mean, maybe he feels indebted to him because of he did something for him. But like Anelli, a soldier boy, Rick Ross, you did it for the money. almost would have rather heard them say, I needed the money and I did it for a check, than I would. You tried to justify and convince us to be okay with what you did or to talk to us like we're stupid for holding you accountable, for doing something that is so, let's just

be honest, anti-Black people, anti-the-culture, because you are aligning yourself with someone who represents that in every single way. And so it's just disappointing because it's just another a reminder of how quickly we can be bought, how quickly we can be separated, and how we just don't come together as a people. That's what I hate it. So Soldier Boy actually was very transparent about the fact that he did it for the money. Ross said, Ross said that he showed up for Snoop. I'm not sure you need to be. I'm just telling you what people said. Yes, but then he performed. He didn't, he performed. So he lied to him. Um, so. So I guess my thing is when I'm looking at it,

it's not that I don't feel that there's a set of priorities that black Americans should have in terms of solidarity. It's not that I don't feel that way. It's just that what I've decided to do was stop wearing my disagreements or the actions of one or two black people in order for them to be indicative. I'm not going to use what Snoop or Nellie did to, and I'm not going to bring,

I'm not going to extract a wee out of it. I'm not going to, there's no, there's no we. Obviously there's, there's, so there's no we. Like, I'm not going to extract a we out of that. There's no, there's no we. They did that and that is, that's their new set of priorities, or maybe it's always been their set of priorities. God bless.

Obviously, it's a new set of priorities for Snoop. So I'm not going to be what they did, whatever. And I'm going to look at it in how it reflects the way I look at the world. And particularly with Snoop Dog, who I thought that he was and not necessarily who I thought that he was, I don't know, Snoop, but who he said that he was. And maybe if there's been new information that he's gotten, he'll share it with everyone. I do want to talk specifically about Nelly, though, because Nelly went on Willie D. show, like I said before, and, like, said some stuff.

Like, he defended it. So, Donnie, could you play a little bit of what Nelly had to say? I thought you was riding with me because I put on for my city and I try to bring my city up every step of the way. I did not know you was riding with me because you thought I would ride for who you voted for. I didn't know that. I apologize.

I apologize. I didn't know that I had to agree with your political choices. and I thought it was the things that you do, not the things that you say should be done. If you follow what I do, this shouldn't even be an argument. He's the president. He won.

This isn't a campaign. This isn't an RNC. I'm not out on the political campaign. I didn't get none of that 1.5. You see what I'm saying? Like to try to help somebody get voted. Kamala didn't invite you to perform? No, no, no, no.

He didn't invite me. She didn't invite me either, man. I was going to do. Man, I understand. Huh. Donnie, do you have the part where he talks about Trump specifically as a racist? Yeah. And you have that?

Yeah. What do you say to the people that say, we're not giving you this backlash because of your political affiliation or your political choice or whatever? We're giving you this backlash because you are. propping up a white supremacist? I would ask him to show me where he's a white supremacist. And here's the thing. Okay, I get it.

He did say, if you don't vote for me, you're not black, right? Oh, no, that wasn't him. That wasn't him. That wasn't him. Hold on. I'm trying to think. Hold on. Hold on.

Hold on. He did create... I know where you're going. I know what you're going. He did create the crime bill in the 90s, which said that if you get caught with it, five grams of crack. You do a mandatory five years that had mass incarceration.

I think even the vice president, Kamala spoke on that part that said that the crime bill played a huge part. He, okay, no, he didn't do that. Let me see. What did he do? I'm trying to think the white supremacism, hold on, I'm going to get to it. Okay, he did not rent to black people, what was in the 70s or the 80s?

Is that what, is that what they said? and like, okay, is he written to him now? So nobody's allowed to change, right? Jesus Christ. Okay. I mean, you don't want to, you want to go? No, I don't. You want to?

I don't. Okay. This is hit dog will holler, like, to its fullest. Look, let's have a conversation in good faith. Okay? Let's have a conversation in good faith. First of all, okay, just for why people would say, let's not go back to the 70s and 80s. Let's not do that. Okay. We don't need to go back that far. We don't need to go back to the 70s. We don't need to go back to the exonerated 5. We don't need to go to work with. There's plenty to work with the present day.

Let's just talk about for Nellie. Let's just talk about, why someone who is black might have a problem with Donald Trump now. Okay. So let's not even go back to the birtherism with Obama, to him leading an entire racist narrative that Barack Obama wasn't born in this country. Let's not even go back to that, because that's like, what is that?

That's like 2011, 2012. wealth. You know, let's not go back to that. Okay. So I'm just going to give a couple of things to Nelly that make me not want Donald Trump to be president in terms of how it affects black people. In 2020, Trump reversed the affirmatively furthering fair housing rule, where the Obama administration had actually put protections in for fair housing to affect black people. Trump also in 2020 directed the federal government to discontinue anti-bias

and racial sensitivity training for their employees. The memo for the Office of Management and Budget says that Trump has instructed him to cancel further what he calls divisive anti-American propaganda. So if you talk about bias and

diversity, it's anti-American. Trump will eliminate, he says, funding for any school this is now. Now, any school that promotes racial equity or confronts the reality of racism in the nation's history. He has even bowed to direct the Department of Justice to pursue federal civil rights cases against any school, once again, that promotes racial equity or confronts the reality of racism in the country. Trump has also, for all our brothers that grow up in the neighborhoods, promised immunity for police. officers accused of police brutality.

Also, environmental justice, we've talked about this before. The Justice 40 initiative, which was a Biden executive order that aimed to direct 40% of climate investments to underserved black communities, Trump has dismissed it, said it's a woke overreach, going to get rid of it. Under the MAGA wing, black history is under attack. Black history. Forget about DEI and all of that. Black history. States like South Carolina, Florida, Arkansas have eliminated funding for AP Black History.

Nellie, A. P. Black History. The study of Shirley Chisholm, the study of Tucson, the study of the recently pardoned Marcus Garvey, the study of X, the study of King, the study of the Harlem Renaissance, the study of the seven mystic years, the study of PBS pinchback, the study of Frederick Douglass, the study of Denmark VC, the study of Nat Turner, the study of Ella Baker and Baird the study of Maya Angelou, the study of all of those people, AP Black history banned by MAGA politicians all over the place. That's not it. According to Future, Ed, 47 bills, 47 bills have been introduced by MAGA Republicans in 23 state legislatures, including Alabama, Arizona, Idaho, Iowa, New Hampshire, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Texas, and Utah, all aimed. at eliminating certain types of curriculum

which study and deepen the understanding of the black experience in America out of here. Magda doesn't want to hear it. Doesn't want to talk about it, right? Doesn't want to do it. Also, just in case, last thing, in the Trump era,

white nationalist hate groups have grown by 55% that's according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. All right? According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, white hate groups grow. 55% under Trump. I'm asking Nellie, why do white supremacist hate groups love your guy so much? Now, you said you were just performing at inauguration. Fine, you could do that, whatever.

You went on to defend Trump. So I have some questions. Not any disrespect, just some questions. Why do white nationalist hate groups love Donald Trump? It's like, this is something to me that Nelly should get, right? because like white nationalism, big huge rebound under Trump, Nelly led a movement, right? Before Nelly came, St. Louis hip-hop wasn't really on.

But then after Nelly comes, everybody in St. Louis gets big. Chinky gets big, sexy red gets big, Jay Kwan gets big, the St. Lunatics get big, and everybody kind of sees what's going on in St. Louis, and they like it. They feel emboldened. The sound is there. and if you see a nigger now

with a little fucking band-aid under his eye, oh, that's a Nelly thing. If you see a guy now that is a white nationalist or a proud boy or a Richard Spencer, whether or not

anybody wants to fucking admit it or not, that is a Donald Trump thing. He is their guy. And you are now with them. Bar none, full stop, matter what, you're with them. You're with the Proud Boards. You're with the rioters on January 6th.

You're with the white nationalist, neo-Nazi wing of America. You have gone with them. Why would you do that? It ain't no way around it. I'm not telling you who they love. They're telling you who they love. They're telling you that Trump is a return to white man being in charge. They're telling you that a return to white man being in charge.

We never got away from that. but the idea that black people are incapable of anything, anything happens now, it's like, DEI, this, the, I'm ranting, I apologize, I'm taking up too much space, but either my brother Nelly doesn't know what he's saying or he's being willfully ignorant and obtuse about what this particular political movement means and what it has always meant and what it has unabashedly been. So this movement that you guys love, anti-diversity, anti-black history, pro-white nationalists, anti-clean water for black children. Why would you get rid of an initiative that aimed to police environmental standards in black neighborhoods?

because it's too woke. I'm just saying I don't get it. I do. I get it. I think what you said was so eloquent and so beautiful. And it was so nice of you to do the work in the research to lay it out

as to why people have a problem with what Nellie did. Since we're talking about Nellie in particular. But it really takes one simple Google search, Trump and black people to see how what Trump does and what Trump stands for does not align or benefit black people. So when Nelly gets on Willie D's show and he says, I didn't realize y'all have, y'all are concerned with who I vote for. I'm paraphrasing here. And aren't focused on what I've done

with the community. Well, when you do something that honors to use your words, the office that that Trump, when Trump is in power, basically honoring Trump, it contradicts completely what you're trying to do and implement in your community. The two things don't align for all the reasons that you just laid out. So you asked the question, is he being willfully ignorant or what did you say?

Or he just doesn't know? What did you say? Is that the two questions? I was in the zone. I think that's what you said. You were in the zone. You were in, as you looked at, loves to say to me, you were in your back.

You were. But the thing is, is both of those for Nellie. He's willfully ignorant because what he was doing totally benefited him and nobody else. And he's trying to justify that. It doesn't take away what you've done for your community. That's great. But you are also empowering and embolding somebody who does things and puts policies in place or wants to or empowers other people who want to tear down the things that you are doing for your community. You can't have both. You can't do both. So by you saying, yes, I'm going to perform for you and align myself with your presidency and who you are and your ideals, it separates you. It does. I'm not acknowledging that he hasn't done things for his community, but it completely separates you at this point moving forward. People are allowed to have their opinions about you and criticize you for what you're doing. It has nothing to do with who you vote for. It has nothing to do with who you vote for.

simply by the fact that you're aligning yourself with Donald Trump. And acting as it, you don't know why people have a problem with it. I mean, I don't really have much to say else on it because you laid it out so beautifully. But I think it's, to answer your question, it's both. And I completely understand why Nellie's doing it. It was all about himself and how it benefited him. You've thought about your community before, but in this moment with this decision, you were only thinking about yourself

because that's the only other person that benefited. Do you remember when we had Larry Elderon? How could I forget? Yeah, you were shined in that episode. What was Larry Elder's biggest thing that he was trying to do? Fatherhood. Fatherhood. I don't agree with Larry Eldron very much,

but this will be my olive branch to Maga right now because we all have to give it up, right? I will agree that fatherlessness is the biggest problem because of something that just happened. I will agree with Larry Elder on fatherlessness. Rachel, why are you looking like that? Like, we can't find common ground? I'm just waiting.

I'm just waiting. What are you waiting for? I'm so curious to hear why you agree with him about fatherlessness and the common ground that you have found with Larry Elder. Donnie, play this. It's not just going to be that. I mean, when Americans see, deportations or repatriations happen,

they're going to be like, thank you. When they see the border close, they're going to say, this is what I voted for. When they see P starting to like break out again around the world, they're going to be like, this is the stability that we were asking for. Daddy's back. And that's what you're going to see. God damn.

God damn. Hey, Rachel, stop with that. Stop with the narrative. Why are you pushing the narrative, Rach? Y'all have to watch the show. Watch this show on YouTube to see what Rachel just... Rachel, you can't... We can't...

This is a day we're supposed to be unified. We're supposed to be unified, Rachel. It's just... Why do... Why is there this pandering to him in this way? Daddy's... Daddy's... Daddy's back. Daddy. Daddy.

I have to be honest. I'm surprised that. Byron Donald's. I've long held that Byron Donald's is the scariest conservative. And the reason why he's the scariest is because when you would look

at Byron Donald's or when you would watch Byron Donald's, you would be like, that actually looks like a black guy that a lot of young black guys could identify with. Right? He doesn't look, at least prior to this, he didn't look

the stereotypically corny black conservative. What a nigga ain't got no line. You know what I mean? Like his line is all crazy. They, what they, what they, what Trump should actually earmark for,

is money in the budget for black conservatives to get a line. For them to get lined up properly. I don't, the nigger from Fox fucked up line. Your line is fucked up. Like, I don't know if it's the white woman thing,

if they got their wives lining their hair up, but overwhelmingly you see fucked up haircuts with black republics. Whatever. But not by her dollars. Like, he was like, whatever, whatever. And then over time, you've kind of seen the cuckness come out. And the daddy thing is really, really, really tough. And I'll tell you why fatherlessness is important.

I don't want to get this, this man, but, you know, Byron Donald's raised by, like, a single mother, Crown Heights, Brooklyn. I'm sure she was a lovely, amazing woman that actually created a guy who is a very successful man, very successful in business, very successful in all of that. I'm sure that's a black woman that did her absolute best. And actually she did well because she was able to create somebody who is definitely successful.

But calling any man, Daddy. Daddy is the guy who teaches you how to piss in the toilet. Daddy is the guy that talks to you about sex. Daddy is the guy that you get your sense of masculinity, manhood, responsibility. Daddy teaches you how to stand up straight. Daddy instills in you your self-esteem. That's what my father did for me. You talk like daddy.

You walk like daddy. You think like daddy. You want to be daddy. You aspire to daddy. Daddy is to call a man, daddy? Not to say Trump is a father figure for a bunch of people. That would have been worthy of some examination. But to say that daddy.

Daddy flies you out and fucks you. Daddy takes you to Rodale Drive and buys you a purse. Daddy pays you a twist. Daddy, to call Trump, Daddy? I can't believe you, Byron Donald's. I can't believe that this is what we've come to. That your masculinity is wrapped up in Donald Trump. I can't fucking believe I heard that fucking grown-ass fucking man

call Trump daddy. I'm not shocked. Discussed. These people will say whatever they, whatever they need to get. First off, I hate that we're even talking about it because he said it because he wanted everybody to be talking about the fact he called him daddy.

But like everything he does, he acts like that's his daddy. That's how they act. That's how they act. Begging for his attention, begging to be validated from him. That's what they want. They want the approval of

Donald Trump and they will say and do whatever it takes to get that. Even call him daddy on national television. All right, that's it. No more podcast. Vivek Wamswamy is out. You're a fucking moron. You're a fucking moron, Vivek Ramoswamy. You're an idiot. It's nice to see that

you finally turned a corner on him. That was your guy. What you mean? Vec was your guy. You wanted him on this podcast. You were entertained by him. You really were like Team Vivek. That's not, why would you say that I'm Team Beck? He really had, he really had your interest.

He did. You were so, and you were enthralled by him. I was, look at the adjectives that you're using. Enthraught. They're powerful. Had my interest. Wow. Dare I say it?

What? What? Is Daddy home? Oh, what? That's not fair. That never happened. I just thought. that Vivek was a fascinating political figure

because he was able to talk in a way that was a little chat GPT-ish for sure, but also a way that was, I don't know, he just, he was a slick guy. I want to match wits with him. Well, he's running for governor, so, you know, maybe you could still have him on the show. What an idiot.

He went out there, he tried to tell white people to pull his pants up and now he he's out of Doge. Vec Ramoswamy is out at the Doge department. Donald Trump sacrificed him to the MAGA people who said, you don't talk to us like that.

You talk to the niggers like that. The white people told Vivek this country is ours. You don't talk to us like we need to do better. That's nigger talk. Vec got right back to it, but it was too late.

I saw him in a picture. he looked like he had just got slapped with the news and motherfucker a little cross-eyed taking the picture with Elon Musk. So Vec, you fucked around and found out, and now it'll never be the same for you, ever. Wow. He's rich.

That's it. That's the end of the... No more. No more. It's over. We screamed. I ranted. I talked too much. I apologize. You were good. You were good. You were good. You were in it. It's enough. Everybody? go out there and do something fun. National championship game tonight.

By the time you listen to this, we'll know who won. You guys go out there and do some fun. Don't doomscrow that much. We even talk about TikTok. Do you have thoughts about TikTok, Rachel? I'm not even going to. The thing speaks for itself. The fate of TikTok is still,

we still don't even know because the law is set. So like an executive order doesn't overturn the law. You know, there's some kind of provision. And I guess he has 90 days to find a buyer or something like that. I don't know. We don't know what's going to happen with TikTok. I can't. I don't care.

So we'll have a more robust conversation about it if there's something to be talked about. If Rachel gets some care on Thursday, we'll know a little bit more about what Trump plans to do and about how people like Senator Tom Cotton and Lindsey Graham and other people who were behind this law are not budging. There's something else. Yeah. Yeah. There's some cracks in MAGA that we're seeing. There's some cracks in MAGA. We'll see what happens.

But we'll talk a little bit more about TikTok on Thursday. Thank you to Ben Wickler. Thank you to Sam Crocker, aka Coach Prime. I had to give you guys a little joke. I just put that out. That was nice. That was nice. That was nice.

Nice little thing. Take thin caps off. Do not stop learning and don't stop loving each other. You want to tell them you? Oh, I'm Van Laith for June. I'm Rachel Lynn Lindsey.