Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Hollywood on Strike, Plus Black People and Honest Jobs

Episode Date: May 5, 2023

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay break down the Writers Guild of America Strike (12:20), before discussing the killing of a homeless man on a New York City subway (28:30). Then, Eboni K. Williams addresses the backlash after saying she wouldn’t date a bus driver (41:19). Hosts: Van Lathan Jr. and Rachel Lindsay Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is that? Tyler is on. Is Ivan Lake for you. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. Shout out to Donnie. That's all I'm saying. Donnie's not, Donnie's out today.

Is that my internet? No, I think he for us. It's fans. Oh, it's fans. Yeah. See, I think that was a sign that you shouldn't say anything because that is not our business to tell. Shout out to Don.

Let's shout out to Donnie because we love Donnie. But shout out to you, Van. I mean, imagine my surprise, my joy, my excitement when I see that you are on CNN tonight. You know, Van don't tell us anything here, right? He was just like, I'm going to New York. I'm thinking, you know, he's baking deals, doing some pitching, all of that. And little do I know, you're on CNN tonight holding it down. Yeah, it was fun.

I was on there, CNN tonight. Did you have a good time? It was a fun time talking about different topics. You know, shout out to Franklin Leonard and everybody that was on the panel. Met a lot of nice people. I'm doing it again tonight. I'm doing seeing it tonight. All right.

But finally, well, sadly, our viewers won't know that because this will come out tomorrow. But. Yeah. I don't want them to see me on seeing it tonight. I'm actually going to tweet it now. No. Look at him getting a little nervous, y'all. Look at me being all.

You talk about me being humble. Look at you. Yeah, I like to talk and to say stuff. And I also like to cut through in situations where, you know, it's very serious. There's a lot of gravitize you're on the network. You know, you do the view. I was on there with one of your view cohorts. She says she likes you very much.

She's your friend. Yes. Alyssa Farah Griffin is very nice. Nice lady. Nice lady. Shows that, you know, she's a Republican, but. She's nice and you can still hate everything that everyone, someone believes in and not necessarily hate them. It's hard, but it's possible.

You know what I'm saying? Rachel, what are you up to? You're dressed like The Matrix today. Well, I was down. I just came back from the Hollywood Boulevard. It is May 4th. And they gave, they posthumously gave Carrie Fisher, her star on the Walk of Fame. Yeah.

So it was shut down. It was rowdy. You know me. I have no idea what's going on. They're like Mark Hamel's coming. I say, who is that? So I, which you were going to be so mad. I now know.

I now know. Just to understand, if you're not in the Star Wars world, why would I know? Why would I know? You know, this machine comes up, this like short, fat cylinder machine comes rolling up. You tell me that you don't recognize R2D2? I don't know now.

You're saying that, hold on. See, because here's the thing. I'm not kidding. Well, just wait a second. I can understand not knowing that Mark Hamill played Luke Skywalker. I get it. But you're telling me you can look at R2D2

and you don't know what R2D2 is. You don't know who that is. Like, you haven't seen just like R2D2. to the producer. I literally turned to the producer at Axis Hollywood shout out to Terrell. And I said, what's that?

Like you, okay. Look, I was going wild. And I was like, what is that thing? I knew what the stormtroopers were. But you didn't know R2. It's just, okay, for me,

I knew it was in the movie. Yeah, for me, it's no, I'm not shaming. I'm just saying it's, it's difficult to think that somebody wouldn't be able to identify R2D2 where they saw R2D2. I get it.

People lived under rocks and they never watched television. The judge had been watching the walls of Jericho and TVN. I bet you know who been. Josh about the Battle of Jericho. See? Jericho. See? See?

You know that song. And the walls came tumbling down. Listen. Wait, there was also this gold walking thing. C3 p.m. Thank you. Oh, that. That is definitely a name I've never heard of before.

When you say R2D2, I'm like, yes, that sounds familiar. C3Pio and R2D2 are in a domestic partnership. They're a couple? Yeah, they're a couple. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, so they are both. Star Wars was way ahead of the game in terms of droid on droid, male-on-mail relationships. They're in a relationship.

C-3-Po and R2D2. They have a small, like, small family unit right outside of tattooing where they live and work together. two drugs. Wait, are you joking? Yes, it's fucking not true. They're companions. They're like, they're like,

they're companions. They're like, that's his boy. Shit, they might be fucking, I don't know. But, you know. But that's awesome. Make the fourth be with you. Yes. Her daughter was there.

She's a fantastic, Billy Lord. Fantastic portrayal of Princess Leia, a very important character in Star Wars and film history. Princess Leia is awesome. No, she's not a... I always feel guilty. Why?

About being there, I'm like, I'm not worthy. You know, somebody else who actually understands and appreciates. I feel bad. But I was there. So, you ask me why I'm dressed like this. I guess this is... It's close.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know why I'm dressed like Trinity from The Matrix, but I am. And I'm actually... Wait, I'm wearing leather boots. Leather boots. I'll be so funny if you were in the matrix.

I could see you in the matrix. I need one of our artistically and kind thought words to draw you in the matrix. I could see you just like not in any way being nurturing to Neo. You know? Art imitating life. Neo comes aboard the Nebuchadnezzar and he fails the first time and you look at morphine. That thing is called the nephew Canezer? you're yes that's the fucking name of the ship i've seen the matrix but it's just been such a long time

like yeah the ship is called the nebuchadnezzan all right that's the fucking name of this ship c3b o luke Skywalker motherfucker motherfucking uh r2d2 these are the names i'm about to lose it okay that's the name can i finish my joke please okay neo fails the simulation And you look over at Morpheus, it's like, hey, we got to lead this Nick. All right. Like, that's the whole movie would be over because you wouldn't give him a check. Hey, shut up, Neo. Like, you suck.

Like, we got to go. You know, that's dope, though. Is it raining in L.A. right now? I'm in New York. It was. It stopped. The sun came out just as the ceremony started. So that was actually really nice.

But it's no longer raining. I went to Equinox to work out today. Equinox here in New York Equinox in LA better. I would imagine, though. There's just like not the space. And New York's just so crowded. Like a small equinox.

This equinox was actually in the Equinox Hotel. Oh, you went to the one at Hudson Yards. Hudson Yards. Equinox Hotel. That's nice, though. The Equinox Hotel just looks, I didn't go in, but like Equinox in the Equinox Hotel, not fantastic.

I mean, nice people. but very small, like one little, it's like, actually to be honest with you, the Equinox inside the Equinox Hotel was kind of like akin to a hotel gym a little bit. I mean, bigger than that, but, you know, I was able to get, I like that area though.

Hudson Yards beautiful. Right? Our studios over there, extra studio. You got, you ever go over there? Who goes over there? Who goes to Extra Studio? They let you go over there? I love the way you see.

It's phrased it. Yes, at times they allow me to go over there when I'm in New York. You go there, you hang out. I stay over there. What are you doing this weekend, Rachel? I'll be in New York. I'm not coming back to a Monday. Oh, I'll be in Chicago. I'll be in Chicago.

Shocked. There is a junket premiere for a movie called About My Father, Sebastian, Manascalco, Robert De Niro. I love that guy. Kim Cottrell. Yeah. Do you? He's hilarious. Brian does too.

He's hilarious. That's all I got turned on to him. See, me and Brian turned on to him. Jesus Christ, it's like that. Me and me and Brian will go see him together and not bring you. I mean, I've already seen the movie, so go for it. V.B. Summer. That's what it's going to be.

What's that? What's that? I'm rooting for it. I like it. Do it. Do it. That's what I'll be doing this weekend. Junkett, Premier, Chicago,

Shytown. Y'all hit me up, give me some places to go. I'm going to have a lot of downtime. I would say that it would be a BV summer, but BV is like, you can't really, that's like a thing you don't want to, you know, that's a whole other connotation. And you don't want it to be.

Correct. You had it right the first time. Because it's like if you say BV summer, there's a lot of people out there that are going to have a BV summer. And they don't, it's not going to be great for. But there's some BV summers coming specifically in L.A. But it's VB. because it's Van and Brian. We're going to do all kinds of.

Let's move on. We're going to do Hollywood Carnival. We're going to do basketball. We're going to do different things that fit people do. We're going to pull-ups together. And you're not invited to any of them. Am I invited? We're going on vacation.

We're going on vacation. The four of us are going on vacation. Me, you, Brian, Kalika. Here's the thing. It might just be me and Brian. That's why me and Kalika have traveled without y'all before. Yeah. Me and him just, but see, the difference is, is the way me and him would do it. We would act like you guys were coming and then we would actually have booked everything for like

a day earlier. And so by the time you guys get to the airport and realize there's no tickets and nothing, nothing's booked for y'all, me and him were already being bored, bore, riding on the back of dolphins. How telling people where we're going. Oh. What difference is make that they know. You know how I get about that stuff. You know how I get it. You think somebody's going to follow us to mora more? It's the Sam Lindsay and me.

I do not, I do not like to do that. But you know how I know that would never happen? Because you and Brian are not capable of planning a vacation like that by yourselves. You're just not. So disrespectful. You would need the help of me and Kleecker. You would.

Tell me I'm lying. It's so disrespectful. That's so disrespectful and absolutely accurate. You can't, you can't. Okay. Yes, thank you. You need us. Y'all need us.

It went to Greece and I would wake up and I'll be like, oh, what's going on like for today? And she'd be like, nothing. Just get up to the top and get in the car. Whatever happens, happens. Don't wear that even. Let me tell you what to wear. It's just the whole thing. You know, it's the whole thing.

Can't wait. It's going to be fun. It's going to be fun. A lot of stuff. To get to On the other side of his break, big deal of the day. Gritlock in Hollywood.

Rider Strike. Cripling the town. Did you know about one and three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like

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18 plus. Bonus is non-withdrawable and expires seven days after receipt. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See terms at fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. Okay, Rachel. The Writers Guild of America, which represents 11,500 writers,

is on strike officially. The night of May 1st, the writers were unable to negotiate a deal with the studios, and they are now officially on strike. There are probably a lot of people out there that are wondering what this means. This means that most productions that would have been coming up are effectively shut down

because it's very hard, excuse me, productions of scripted things. A lot of scripted stuff and anything that has a right, right? So you're talking about... That is unionized. That is unionized. You're talking about shows like Jimmy Fallon,

Jimmy Kimmel, Stephen Colbert, already shut down. Saturday Live this week. We're supposed to be hosted by Pete Davidson. Shut down. Not happening. all those shows rely on talent from the WGA and those guys aren't working.

They are shutting down. Also, a lot of people would be shutting down and not moving forward on productions in solidarity with the WGA. Sure, sure. I mean, a lot of those hosts... So people will actually shut down productions, full productions in solidarity,

even though... So, I mean, some of those shows could theoretically move on without writers. Like, for example, it's my understanding that during the

first writer's strike that John Stewart wrote all of the stuff himself and then continue to do the daily show. Or a couple of people did that. We need to have to make sure that that's real. So theoretically, like, I guess the view has writers

and other places like that, they have writers. So you could go and do those shows without the writers. And if a guy like Colbert probably wanted to do his show without a writer, he could probably, probably a little bit harder for him, but it's an interview show. And he could probably get that stuff. But some of that is in solidarity with the writers. And remember now, there are other people that are doing stuff like stars,

that won't go to interviews, that won't promote shows, that won't do all of that. Oh, Drew Barrymore just pulled out of hosting MTV Awards. In solidarity. I misheard you. I thought that you were saying that just shows that aren't affected were just shutting down as a whole. And I was like, really? But I get what you're saying.

Okay, okay, okay. Yeah, niggas's not going to do that. The shows that don't need. That's what I was like, really? I was like, what? No. Those other shows that like they're like, you guys are about to get so many different reality shows, that it's going to be

because the reality shows are unscripted. You get so many reality shows right now, they're going to try to float those while this strike is going on. This is going to affect everything in Los Angeles. People have to remember about Los Angeles. I said this on a brilliant idiot's podcast is that the lifeblood of this town,

the industry of the town, is entertainment. So it's essentially like GM shutting its factories down, like wholesale, sit-ins or strikes at those factories in the 50s or the 60s when it was the manufacturing hub of the entire world. And so

you're going to feel that everywhere. Maybe not right away. But everybody from the tops of the heads of the studios, which will be probably the people that will be less affected, all the way down to the valets at some of the craziest restaurants will be affected by an economic

slowdown because of this rider strike. Now, if you're wondering what this about, it's about a couple of things. Number one, it's about residuals. Residuals have changed because television has changed. There was one standard of paying a residual. A residual is a check that you get from a show that you've written after the show has aired after you've gotten paid for writing. So you get paid every time it comes on, right?

Those residuals were calculated in a certain way during the era of network television, and they're different now with stream. Writers want a higher percentage of residuals. they want resisions to be closer to what they used to be. They also, they also want to see the analytics of the streamers, which Rachel is a big deal

because those streamers, that information is proprietary. They know better than anyone else exactly how many people are watching this stuff, where they're watching it, how they're watching it. And they don't want to have to share that because it influences their, market share and all kinds of stuff like that.

No, absolutely. I, right now, negotiations we know aren't happening. It's shut down because they're striking. But I was down there talking to people yesterday, and they aren't even taking steps to have negotiations. Like they're at a standstill. Nothing is happening. And the last strike back in 2007,

2007 that carried over into 2008 lasted for 100 days. So we won't be in this thing for a while because they're at such opposite ends of the spectrum. And I personally don't think that what the writers are asking for is all that crazy. They're asking for less than 2% of the profits. The problem is that it's corporate greed. I mean, when you look at the breakdown of what these. CEOs are making at these places.

Are you Emmanuel at Endeavour? 308 million. David Zaslov at Discovery, $246 million. Bob Iger, 45. Who else is the big number? And the list just goes on and on and on. Millions and millions and millions.

Why are you smiling like that? No, you're right. I'm not about to go ahead. This is Rachel's, Rachel is saying this. No, they're making millions and millions. millions of dollars. What? Do you not agree with me?

Oh, I can't wait to hear. No, no, you're, this is, you know, sometimes, some, you know, niggas might have stuff in production. You've got to work with these people. But so, you know, Rachel is, this is a Rachel. I'm sorry. I got you. I got you.

I got you. Van. They don't want to upset the man. Hey, hey, hey, I'm not taking sides. No. Listen, here's what I say. I work under, I work under Warner. Yeah.

So, you know. I work under Warner. I get it. I have, my point is it's factual information as to how much money these CEOs are making. And the fact that these writers who literally are, I mean, dare you say, like holding it all together. The idea of people, they're the lifeblood of the entire fucking town. Yeah, like, the life was the whole town. The fact that they're not properly compensating this labor force that is making these CEOs that I named,

I'd even finish naming all of them, millions and millions of dollars, and they can't, like, there can't be some kind of equality when it comes to growing their income. Some of them can't even pay their bills is wild to me. And the way that the industry has headed

in regards to streaming as far as shorter seasons, right? We're getting eight to ten episode seasons. Instead of these 22, 24, these riders aren't growing. They're not involved in the process as a whole. and so there's not this ladder for them to climb to be showrunners or directors.

It's not as easy as it. You're having more green riders than you are with experienced riders. And it just seems like they're trying to cost to make their pockets bigger. And the people have said enough. And I'm here for it. And I think that it's important,

it's like important to pay attention to what's happening because it can want to affect other industries. You're seeing in California because, you know, we're big on unions here. but the issue is wealth disparity. And the gap is getting so much bigger between the halves and the half knots. And you will continue to see people come together in solidarity,

unionize whatever it may be, to demand just to be able to put food on the table, just to be able to have the opportunity to grow in this industry. And you've got gatekeepers who seem to not be allowing that to happen. and I think that it's going to continue to be a problem. I mean, the fact that they can't even carve out the AI situation. That's a really interesting thing. Yeah, go ahead.

Go ahead. You can talk about it. Well, so the writers contend that they asked for a provision to where the studios would protect them against AI, you know, writing stuff. and they wanted a way to be able to differentiate between AI and an actual writer. And the writers said that the studio said no, or the studios said that they wouldn't negotiate on it or that they tabled the conversation. There's been, there was some reporting done by Matt Bellany over at Pluck News, and it was the studio's response to what the writers contend the glitches in the negotiation.

where the studios had their own spin on it, everything that Rachel's saying is absolutely true. It's 100% true. But there's something else that's going on here. It's a changing world in terms of the way we consume content. And we're not consuming content on these shows that are giving you 22, 23 episodes a year with these gigantic, writers rooms.

It's an interesting thing to where a guy like Taylor Sheridan, who's the writer of Yellowstone, essentially controls a whole streaming platform, you would think that the writers would be more empowered, but here's the rub that happens. If you're a Taylor Sheridan or you're anyone in that situation, and I'm not saying that he's so hands-on with all the shows he's doing, and you have a show,

and the show is coming from your people, Well, if you're writing every episode of the show, which some of these guys are doing, the writer's rooms might be a little smaller. Or the productions, the producers might want you to have a smaller writer's room. You and a couple of other people are writing everything, right? Like a mini room. Well, that takes away from the writer's perspective. That takes away from not only the opportunity that they have to make a living being in a writer's room, but also valuable experience. and forward motion in the career that somebody would get from being in a room.

So the many rooms and the smaller rider's rooms that happen on some of these streaming shows is another point of contention. What some of this is is the inability of people to make sense of the landscape of television and entertainment now in an equitable way. It's not that money has stopped being made. It's that it's being made differently. that's very important it's not like people were making money hand over fists during the network era

and it is stopped because of streaming no it's being made differently subscriptions star driven vehicles rider driven vehicles and there are a lot of people that are on the outside of the elite of the town that aren't seeing as much money

as they used to like she like Rachel was talking about we're talking about the working writer, not the Lyndle Hoffs, not the Sheridan's. Shonda rhymes. Not the Shonda Rhymes. We're talking about the working writer.

And so we're going to see how long this like. The last time this happened, this killed Heroes. I never, ever, ever forgot. Never, no. Stuff. Heroes was one of the most promising shows. It was like an X-Men rip-off,

but it was good. Rider Strike King, Heroes, It was fucking, we lost. Crazy shit was happening after the writer's thing just, gone. Showed terrible. So it's an important, important deal. It's a very important.

It's a very important deal. And it's important for us in terms of the way we view unions and the way we view workers, solidarity with workers and with people who are asking for more, just like you said, Rachel. I was being joking around. You know, obviously I have projects everywhere. But everything you were saying is correct.

Really? You are. No, no. I mean, listen, I work with them as well. Maybe not in the same way you do, but I do too. So I get it. But if you think that it doesn't affect you because you don't live in L.A. or you're not in Hollywood, it does because we all consume this in so many different ways. So. And even the projects that are out that are coming out, they're dropping this week, next week, next month, will the actors promote these projects? in the midst of a writer's strike. Some are saying, Oh, I can tell you right now, we got shoots canceling left and right here because I thought, because we're not a unionized show.

So it doesn't affect us in regards to writing, but it does as far as what we can cover because people are pulling out in solidarity with those that are affected by this. So pulling out in solidarity. Maybe we'll go to Bora Bora earlier. Maybe we will.

Maybe we will. So, look. Pulling out inside. Shut up, ban. Pulling outside of the area. You just like, my brother did this. I'm going to do it too. Just pulling out.

Kids go everywhere. So we don't know how long this is going to last. Shout out to Adam, my writing partner, who sent me one of the most pathetic pictures I've ever seen, which was him in the rain today. Outside your personal. Outside. Or Paramount.

It's outside Paramount in the rain today. What I didn't know is that the guild, they schedule you a time where you have to go pick it. Like they tell you that this is the time. I thought about that today. Yeah. This is a time where you have to go out there and pick it. So you have to go pick it during a certain window

that they tell you you have to go out there. I'm going to go when I come back to LA. They are structured. I'm going to go. I mean, I was down there yesterday. but I'm going to go bring, because I'm out here by a lot of studios. I'm going to drop some stuff off.

Yeah, I'm going to go bring on some pizzas or something like that, you know, some pizzas out there. Okay. Herschel Walker. Herschel. So your writing partner is in the rain, and you sit and chilling on... I'm not in Gil.

CNN tonight. I'm not the girl. I'm not the writer's guy. Did you take a picture of yourself on set? No, I didn't. I don't do anything. Next to Chris with CNN. you take a picture with yourself?

I don't do none of that. I don't do, hey, watch me on this tonight. I don't do any of that. I pop up and you see me. You know what I mean? I don't go, hey, I did take a picture when I was on the, I think I took a picture when I was on Jimmy Kim. I think I do.

But I don't do none of that. I pop up, you see me, I put it on after, boom. Watch me the night on this. Watch or don't promote. That's what friends are supposed to do for you. Did you know about one and three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you?

Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimfaya, guselcomab, taken by injection, is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaques psoriasis, who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy, and for adults with active psoriotic arthritis. Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur. Before a treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine.

Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimphaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimphia, including important safety information. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips.

Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those WeatherTech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need WeatherTech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. Something went down on the New York subway, a killing that everybody is talking about. Rachel, I'm sure you've heard about this. I heard about it.

A man named Jordan Ely, who I regularly danced at the Times Square Station Hub, New York Subway, Michael Jackson, impersonator is what he did. 30 years old. according to reports, was having a mental health crisis, screaming things like

he doesn't mind going back to jail, he isn't going to die, he has no reason to live, he was having a break. A 24-year-old former Marine who has not been described yet in a lot of the major reports apparently felt threatened

about his safety and the other riders of the train, grabbed. George Neely choked him and he died. New York Mayor Eric Adams was on CNN last night, urging everyone to refrain from discussing the case in detail, media people until more information has come out. ALC spoke on the matter, said that it was murder.

The New York controller spoke on the matter, saying that vigilanteism has no place in the city. There's a racial component here. Jordan Neely was white. His restrainer that the choked him to death was, excuse me, Jordan Neely was black. His restrainer that choked him to death was white. Rachel, have you seen the story?

What are your thoughts on it? I've seen the story, not video, wasn't even trying to seek it out. I find it interesting, and I don't know if you heard it. You mentioned that Eric Adams, the mayor said for the media to refrain from talking about it. And I'm wondering, why?

Why would we not talk about what appears to be an extreme injustice and murder that happened in a very public way? Did he explain why he doesn't want us to talk about it? Because not talking about it protects who? I think what he was saying was that. he was urging people not to call it murder or not to attribute anything to it until there was more information. He was urging everyone that might have an opinion or might be involved

to wait until that information had a chance to see the light of day before any decisions about what they think happened, you know, were made or come to. I don't agree with that. And I don't agree with that because, one, this happened in a very, very public way and this 24-year-old former U.S. Marine took matters into his own hand, which we've talked about before about what's being created in this society and that people being vigilantes is going to be more commonplace as the law protects them and they're given certain rights that almost empower them to be this way.

So not talking about it, I think is an injustice and it only protects one person. What was done here was completely unnecessary, especially if this gentleman was suffering for mental illness. This 24-year-old took it upon himself to be the judge and jury and sadly the executioner in this situation. And he was not equipped to handle it. But he took matters into his own hand. This is something that we need to talk about

because we're starting to continue to see acts like this. Maybe not exactly like this, but similar acts happen as civilians think that they have the power to do this. Since his death, information about Jordan Neely has come out.

It looks like he has a pretty lengthy arrest record. This is something that we're talking about here, guys, because it's a part of the information that it's informing the conversation around what happened on the subway. We understand, and of course, in case anyone is triggered by this, we understand the media playbook, particularly when it comes to the death of the killing of a black man or woman, black person, and that reaches the light of there. there's always a rush to criminalize and demonize that person. This is part of that discussion. So I want to talk to Rachel about it and talk, we want to talk to you guys about it.

We understand that the motions are running high and that some of you guys might be triggered by us discussion as part of it. He had been arrested over 40 times, including three times, according to reports that I read, for assaulting women on some way. does that in any way change your perception of what happened? No.

I agree. Did that Marine know that? The Marine did not know that. He would have to be Robocop. I know that that's a very convenient thing for people to bring up, but that has no impact on what actually happened. Had the Marine know that, Robocop can scan someone and say, hey, this person. and this is this person's criminal record. Unless that guy could do that,

that doesn't have anything to do with what happened in this particular. Absolutely not. It's something that's being volleyballed around. I just want to know, had you heard that, and upon hearing it, what are your first thoughts? I had not heard that,

but it, you know, as I just stated, it wouldn't change anything that I just said previously. At the time that that Marine decided to take matters into his own hands, he didn't know any of that information. He just decided that he was going to do exactly what he did, use a necessary force, hold somebody down to the point. And this is a Marine, okay? So this is somebody who is trained a particular way,

not to do what he did, but I'm just saying the acts that he took were extreme as a Marine. I mean, this, no, this is, this is wild. This has nothing to do with anything that he did before. And I'm not justifying anything that Jordan Neely did prior to this. I'm talking about the situation as it happened. And at the time it happened, all you saw was a man with erratic behavior. And based off that, you decided to use force that killed him. And I don't know.

And you tell me, was there any, were there any report? that he was actually harming people? Were there any reports at the time that that Marine put him in that chokehold? Where Jordan's hands on anyone? Did he have a weapon in his hand? Was there anything like that that was going on? That information hasn't been available yet.

Right. That information hasn't been made available. I was walking down the street this morning, streets of New York, walking back from Equinox, and strutting it out. You know what I mean? Whenever I walk on the sidewalk,

in New York. I'm don't damn damn you can tell about a week I'm going to be

man you know what I'm a joby man you know what I mean but as I'm walking down the street not unlike in Los Angeles where I live

a guy starts walking next to me and he starts screaming to the top of his lungs like I'll fuck you up You motherfuckers, you niggas don't know this, you niggas don't know that. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

I look over. He was black? Black man, yeah. Having some sort of issue. He actually walked, saw me, and then came and walked on the side of him. I'm walking down the street. A glance on. You know, glance on my left.

He's continuing to walk. He's shouting. I don't know if he's confused me for someone or what's going on. I said keep walking. He's yelling, yelling, yelling, these motherfuckers, Bible will walk. Keep walking. Look again. I'm checking.

Looking over. Making sure I'm safe. Everything's good. I'm going. If that guy grabs a woman. That guy grabs me. That guy in any way, if it looks like somebody is in trouble, I would probably do something. Okay.

The first thing I would do is intervene and put myself between the person and what was going on. I'm not going to grab him by his neck and choke him if he's unarmed. I'm certainly not going to put my hands or feet on his neck in a way that could permanently injure him if he's unarmed and if he is otherwise restrained. I say that to say that, like, of course there was anxiousness inside of me, like, what's about to happen. but no way did my mind think kill and eliminate.

Like take a lot. Right. You know? We talk about the fact that this gentleman is a Marine and the fact that as part of the programming, and this is not in any way a slight to any of the servicemen or women

that may be listening to the podcast, but as part of the programming there, there's a threat assessment, and then after there is a threat assessment, there is neutralizing the threat. The problem is that all too often in America now, we're seeing people seemingly identified threats where there doesn't appear to be one.

And that speaks to the climate that we're in. A couple of years ago, we were talking about police officers acting overzealously and shooting and killing unarmed of black people. We're now talking about, and not that we hadn't talked about this before, with Ahmad Arbery and Ahmaud Arbery and things like that. We're not talking about American citizens

opening fire on one another in Texas in Kansas in Kansas City. This killing right here. We're just in a bad place. Yeah. We're just in a bad place.

A scary place, man. A scary place. Yeah. Just in a bad place, man. It's funny. Jordan Neely, he had been disruptive on the subway before. And when I say he's been disruptive on the subway before, I think dancing like Michael Jackson on the subway,

in a full Michael Jackson regalia and the whole thing with the music going, I think that's pretty disruptive. I think watching someone do that in the middle of all those people when you're trying to ride home, I think that's pretty disruptive, right? But black men are allowed to disrupt it that way. They're allowed to sing and dance. As long as they're singing and dancing,

America doesn't feel any threat from them. But if you break out and start screaming about what you need and your mental health and the time that you're having, now you have to be strangled. So he stopped singing and he stopped dancing and he died. I don't know what kind of person he was, obviously 40 arrests is OD

and the three or four assaulting women that's going to be a part of the story so we talked about it but weird stuff going on everywhere. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means

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Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. Somewhere out there is a Chevy truck. And the person who drives it, well, that's a Chevy person. You probably know one, your buddy, your sister, ones who always show up, through the first to rise, the last to leave. They always have that little extra something

And maybe you've got it too Chevrolet Together let's drive Visit chevy.com slash trucks To explore the lineup Eminy K Williams We talked about We did

Talk to I'll Yandla I know we say it different I say Yonla People say Ayyanla Ayyanla Ayyanla I love her. I love Van Sant. And she talked about the fact that, you know, she wouldn't,

the day the bus driver, she's David's a day, but we talked about. There's been doubling and tripling down since that happened. They got on Ebony's ass. Ebony, K. Williams, friend of the show here, had Ebony on, I've been on Ebony's show. Wherever Ebony's been, I've been on me and Ebony did Instagram live together. Love Ebony, K. Williams. Don't love what you guys are about to listen to. after the criticism came from the conversation with her and Iyamla,

she went on her show and she gave this album. So after the 50,000 plus comments posted on social, I only saw a handful that even considered the possibility of a bus owner being a more aspirational position and recognizing that I am actually speaking and pouring into the ascension of black men when I said what I said. But see, no, some of y'all were too busy naming and shaming me personally, and black women in general as undesirable gold diggers and much worse.

Now, I suspect that some of y'all are the same men that were bringing home Cs and Ds on your report cards, only to then be coddled by parents that said, well, that's okay, as long as you're doing your best. Well, listen, I love and believe in the excellence of black men. So no, my dear, C's and D's or any other form of mediocrity is not okay. No, I will not create a soft place for you or anybody that I love to fall comfortably into the bigotry of low expectations. So I'm going to say one more time.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with driving a bus. My mother Gloria drove one for years. But could it be that Black America has been sold a narrative of average, regular, and typical being good enough for us? us. Well, see, that's called white supremacy. And in this case, it takes the form of conditioning black Americans to happily accept being a permanent American underclass. But see, because I know the truth about black folk in America, no, average is not and will never be good enough for me. And the gag is, I don't think it's good enough for you either. Man, your thoughts? So, then went on the breakfast club.

She went on a breakfast club earlier today. Not going to play any clips from that, but it was a train wreck. Okay, I listened to the majority of it, by the way. It was a train wreck. If you're talking about train wreck, as in it's all over the place, I will agree.

It's a train wreck for many reasons. One reason is because there was filibustering of points. there was obfuscation of every kind there was goalpost moving here's the reality

Ebony who is one of the most brilliant people that you can listen to in this business overly qualified to discuss the things that she discussed and a real problem solver in the way that she thinks

there's a glitch here culturally that she doesn't seem to be understanding. And it's a scary thing. Some of these feel like, if I'm being honest with you, some of these feel like criticisms coming from the big house. They do. And not disagreeing with you.

And it's odd. And it's deflating a little bit. So no one is arguing, at least that I've heard, that we don't all wish for black Americans to be achieving their full potential, working hard to realize that potential and, you know, sacrificing the things that need to be sacrificed in order to achieve excellence. I think we want that for each other. Anyone who cares about the for mobility of us as a culture, community, and the people will care about that. The question is, who decides what that is? What are the prerequisites for that, right?

If you are a person who is achieving happiness and is achieving a sense of worth being a part of a community, achieving for yourself, providing for the people around you, who's to say what your job, what part your job plays into that. And who decides,

like, it's a, I hate to say, it's the way white people think. It's 100% the way why people think. It's the, and it's interesting to hear it, come from inside of our culture because it doesn't come to terms with so many of the systemic and historical hurls that black people have had to jump. When Ebny was on the Breakfast Club today, she was talking about where black people rank in terms of wealth and

with their jobs and all of that stuff, how much money we make, and we're last on that list, Indians are at the top, white people are in the middle. Once again, black people are being compared to immigrant groups. You know, I get it,

and I want you niggas to do better because look at where we at thing is, it's compelling on its face, but those numbers are static and they don't have a heartbeat. There's no context. So the fact that, black people being at the bottom of that is intentional isn't even discussed, right?

It's not discussed that we were landowners in the 1900s and that land was taken from us through us through usery, contract buying schemes and other things. We're not discussing the fact when we talk about ownership that we try to own homes in places with those homes who have appreciated value to a degree that might have adjusted those wealth numbers. but we were redlined out of those places, right? That so many different avenues to economic equality were purposefully taken from black people.

So all of that was taken from us. Intentionally, by white supremacy, systemic racism, economic usury and terrorism, and any other means of political or social engineering that America has inflicted on black people. And then at the same time, now from within our own culture, we're going to be taught that we can't go get honest jobs.

If I'm being real, do you know conversations like this may people do? These conversations, to me, make niggas go get it in the street. And let me tell you why. Because if you're telling me right now that I can't go and drive a bus or I can't be a mechanic

or I can't do any number of jobs because that doesn't mean an excellence threshold for someone who might want to date me or not even date me because Ebony is free to date whoever she wants but it doesn't mean an excellence threshold for someone to look at me like a productive and achieving

and contributing member of a society or culture then I got to show you something else and because I'm being locked out from so many other things right because my access to colleges aren't the same because my access to education aren't the same because my access to so many things aren't the same.

But you know what I do have access to? Quick, fast ways to make money. I can show you a house that I'm renting or a car that I'm renting or some dope that I got on consignment. This type of thinking that is whack to be, to work in a restaurant or that it's whack to be a nurse

or that it's whacked to be a security guard or any number of jobs that you can make a living on, especially depending on where you are, right? That's the kind of thinking that makes people say, well, you know what, let me cut some corners to go get it. And I know that because I've heard this before. Like, I've heard this before. I've heard people say, man, your dad runs a construction situation,

but he got to be out there every day in the heat. That's not going to get it. Like, I've heard this before. I've heard it. And so there's a disconnect here and the fact that as we've talked about it, we continue to double and triple down. I'm not saying that we shouldn't be better

about a cultural imperative in terms of education. I'm not saying that, but part of these things are, they're indictable in terms of America's part of them. They're indictable in terms, for so many other ways. It's like, this you niggas

need to do better thing. I don't know what to say to this. Like, to be honest with you, if Ebony weren't somebody I had a great deal of respect for and somebody who I consider to be a homie, I'll be going insane right now. Because, like,

when we family and when we got love for one another, there's a way to have this conversation. And I promise you that this is, not the way. And when I watched her on the breakfast club today, and I'm filibustering as she was now, I'll stop. When I watched her on the breakfast club today, it was icky. She was like talking down to people. Like, come on, man. What I feel like, and I have a lot of respect for Evan too, and I've reached out and told her, you know, we'd love to talk to you, even though I do not agree with what you're

talking about right now. And, you know, she's busy doing her thing and, you know, but acknowledged she would be loved to hear what we had to say in regards to what she was saying. But what I feel like happened to Ebony is that she had a conversation with Ayonla. Ayanla threw her off by asking her that. She answered, in the full clip, they agree more about Ayonla's point of view than just Ebony saying, I want a bus driver. But the clip Ebony put out was that she wanted the guy to own the bus and not just drive the bus.

Insinuating, the latter was not okay. That's the clip that was put out. That's what people responded to. So her response that we just played on this podcast to that original video was her being defensive, to the comments, to the negativity, to the attacks against her.

and she was responding in a defensive way that really talked down, even though that might not have been her intention, it ended up with her talking down to people who have work or in working class and that they're mediocre is pretty much what she was saying, which is where that starts and that we need to do better. But under the guise of, and I just want better for you, that's where it started to sound like it was coming from the big house because who else talks like that when it's like, oh, they need to do better, they need to pull themselves up, they need to stop making excuses. That's the kind of stuff it was starting to sound like. Then on the Breakfast Club, she was defending that statement. And I feel like as I listened to her on the Breakfast Club,

I was like she's lost her way in this argument. Too much has happened where she's so on the defense that she's defending something and then defending the next thing where she has lost her way in what the whole original point was. So that's why I'm going to give Ebony's, some deference because I feel like

she's just caught up in her argument at this point and it's coming off in a way that is not representative of who she is or what she stands for. Ebony might have a preference. Ebony does have a preference, right? Ebony does not want to date somebody who's a bus driver for whatever her reasons are.

But she lost her way in trying to defend that. And that's what made the breakfast club so painful to watch. That was painful because she was just So look She lost the point

She lost the point I'm not going to sit here and act like Hearing a black woman say She don't want a date of bus driver Is all that big of a deal to me Because I hear black men say Yo I need a woman with this type of hair

I need a woman with this type of cuff In the back of her jeans I hear people talk about shit all the time Okay But that's one thing that's one thing for you to have a preference about what you want you want a successful person we've discussed that you want that that's fine um she made all kinds of assumptions about what somebody who drives a bus is a bus does yes yes right right she made all kinds of assumptions

the number one now we're talking about what's mediocre and what's not mediocre let me tell what culture really is that we can move off this sometimes people in the comments or in DMs, they talk to me about things that I've said. And sometimes, sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes I will respond and engage those people into discussion. Do you know why? Why?

Because to me, part of a functioning culture and part of being a true member of a culture or society or a group or family is the ability to have somebody say to you you wow. That's why the biggest moment of failure that I've had on this podcast

is when you had a problem with something that I said and then you came to me and talked to me in an ass-kicking way but in a way that was who you are. And I responded immaturally. That's something that, that's a standard.

I have to, that was a learning moment for me. That's me having to understand that sometimes you are going to get it wrong. It's going to come off wrong. Your plan is going to go too far. Who you are is going to go too far. And there have to be people that you trust to pull on your coat and be like,

let me tell you why that might, that that's maybe not the way to go. And I'm not saying that they're not people who agree with evidence. I'm not saying that there are not people who agree. I say even those people probably don't understand the situation that I would even say that. Maybe they do and they have a different. What I'm saying is right now, man, like this ain't the way. Like, there's too many black people out there that we need to, we need to actually, in my opinion,

we need to increase the value. in some of these jobs that they are calling mediocre and average, we need to take the microphones out of the hands of these brothers that are trying to wrap. And we need to replace those microphones with clippers and with riches to be mechanics, and those jobs need to be readily available and there to sustain the people that make this country go. and demonizing the people who keep us going, I just don't understand how we could do that, especially after what we just went through in terms of COVID and the pandemic.

Yeah. So it's not that I don't define better for somebody else's lives. I don't want people to do better. I want people to do them happily, healthily, holy. I want them to do them. And if doing you is driving the bus, if doing you is being the manager at the Kroger's or the cashier at the Kroger's,

I want you to do you without hurting somebody else. And can I just say, too, that the job title, the profession doesn't just define you? When you say, I want you to do you, it's not the only thing that makes you who you are. There's so much more to it. And I think that's what we have a problem in society and getting caught up with your job title, your profession, what you do, as if that alone defines you as a whole being. And it doesn't.

Yeah. Ebony is still welcome to come on the podcast or I'd like to have the conversation with her. Yes, of course. Of course. So, B.K. Williams, she's great. But I don't know. The breakfast of the shit made me mad. I'm not going to lie.

I was hot. I can tell. I was hot and bothered. Did you feel like, were you, were you bothered just with her? Were you bothered with the response from like Envy and Charlemagne and Weese and her co-host? I'm sorry, I don't know her name. That's Mandy. No, they have a great podcast.

I'm just sorry, her name is slipping me. They have a great podcast. Horrible decisions. I'll plug it. I'll plug it. Stop. No, I'm, no, I just sorry her name's slipping me. Don't do that.

Don't do that. They have a great podcast. See, the thing is, maybe great podcasts as well. made the double dip no I didn't have a problem with it I thought envy spoke for a lot of people

who have a problem being called mediocre and it wasn't you know he it was emotional at times but I thought he said a lot of things that people were probably thinking it was you know at the end of the day

are these conversations useful yeah I think they are I think that Ebney does have a point in terms of conversations about what we should be asking for each other. But we lose our humanity somewhere by boiling people down to how they spend a 9 to 5.

That's all America's ever done to black people is put their words by what they put their words on what they could produce. And we can't do that to each other. Okay. Mailback. Mailback time. Time to read your letters. And then we'll reply to them. Oh, it's mailback time.

Write us with your queries and we'll chime in. Okay. The first one we have is from Barnaget Sailor. What's the one food your mom made you as a kid that nobody else can make as good as her? Oh my gosh, everything. My mom is so good. I would say her sweet potatoes. I would say that cinnamon toast.

I love so much, simple, but I love. But if I'm going to pick one thing, I'm going to say her pound cake and her sweet potatoes. Yeah. So my mother cooks everything better than everyone. So there's not one thing. but the gumbo for Rachel let me tell you right now

I love pretty hair to death I'll tell you right now if you want to have a cookoff if you want to have a mama cookoff we can have a mama cookoff it's going to be embarrassing No the gumbo we don't we don't We don't touch the gumbo eye

We can take the gumbo audio We can have a cookoff Rachel okay hair can Throw down. It's going to be embarrassing, Rachel. You're right. Let me tell you something.

I think it's going to be more equal than you think. Because see, you over here, I'm not down in this crystal. I'm not saying she can't cook. I love pretty hair. Love her. But you don't know where in the kitchen. You don't know where in the kitchen. You know how I know.

You know how I know. You're judging it by me. You're judging it by me. You're judging it by me. I know what you're doing. I know what you're doing. I'm judging it by what other people say. I know, I know how I am.

We're going to be one day. One day. Just a good excuse to eat. But pick the one thing. Pick the one thing. You say gumbo? It's hard. But the gumbo is going to be the thing that she does that like nobody else does nearly as good as what she does.

All right. Princess Tiff 84 asks, what habit are you proud of breaking and what habit are you proud of starting? Ooh. Okay. What I'm proud of starting is my morning routine, which is room temperature water, hot water with a lemon, probiotics, and coffee before I have anything else. And I am proud of starting that. Excuse me, every morning to help with my digestion, digestion, as I birth on the podcast. Rachel. I'm proud of starting. Having I'm proud of starting is waking up getting sunlight in my eyes before 9 o'clock. I got that from Andrew Huberman.

Before 9? Yeah, like before 9 o'clock. Like that's, you get up and like you get sunlight in your eyes like the morning sun. I know. I just thought you were such an early riser that I'm shocked that you're like before 9. You'll be up at like 5.30 in the morning. I'll be up at 5.30, but then I would be like all over the first. place, you know, but like actually waking up and making it a point.

Not, oh, but I'm not just talking about, I'm talking about getting the sunlight in the eyes, looking at the sun to start circadian the rhythm is what I'm talking about. Yeah. All right. Gotcha. Okay. Bird Noah asks if you can have an AI assistant who could read your thoughts to know exactly what you'd want.

Would you enable that feature? What? Hell no. That's a fucking hell no. I don't want nothing to do with it. Do you think people would like you more or hate you more, Van? Probably hate me more. But I don't want nothing to do with AI.

The only AI I want to have anything to do with play for Philly. That's it. I don't want to, you know what I mean? It's like that's nothing. That's nothing. No, hell no. No, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no.

We got to. All right. Take the in caps off. Do not stop learning. I am Van Lathie Jr. We'll be back next week. I am Rachel and Lindsay. Bye guys.