Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Hollywood Unlocked With Jason Lee

Episode Date: February 3, 2023

Van and Rachel are joined by Jason Lee: host of ‘The Jason Lee Show’ and CEO of Hollywood Unlocked. They discuss breaking celebrity news (21:50), working with Kanye West (37:00), and sitting down with figures from Chrisean Rock to Kamala Harris (48:11). Hosts: Van Lathan Jr. and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Jason Lee Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Higher Learning is on. It is I, Van Lytton, Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lansing. Rachel, you've got a denim and upholstery outfit on right now. Dillum, like, I like when you have to... You're the only one who has seen it.

I've gotten a lot of compliments off this outfit today. That's good. Like, what, is it a whole fit? Yeah, see, that's how you look. See? See how you do that? You look, that's how you look. A little like Wanda vision is.

A little bit. Right? A little bit like when you do like that. Yeah. You do like, do like that. Do like that. Rachel can't do it. It's like 1975 first black acre in San Diego.

It's exactly. It looks like. It does. It does. You know what I mean? It's good though. You're right. It really does.

Why do you shop from such expensive places? I, this is something that came out of wardrobe. First of all, you don't know how much this is. And neither do I. But if this is, this is, this is from wardrobe with extra I'm at extra remember I'm back in the

they gave you this is how you know I'm having a busy day when I can't get home and I got a podcast from here they give you stuff to wear actually yeah how's that work

there's a budget for wardrobe for everybody here who's on camera and then like do you get to keep the stuff no what do they do with it so all owned by extra

just sits here like the last girl stuff's over here sometimes we wear each other's clothes. Sometimes y'all wear each other's clothes? I mean, like, from people before, right? Like, if it's a dress that you like, still here. So you've...

It's like costumes almost. So you mean to tell me that you have worn the clothes of extra people prior to you? I've worn one person's clothes before. Who was this? Her name was Renee. She's not here anymore. And you wore her stuff? I mean, I'm not going to lie.

I wouldn't expect. operation such as extra to be as niggas I know in the hood, that's how they got it. You know, you see them and they'd be wearing their brother's pants and you knew that the pants had to make it through a couple of siblings before they could be thrown away because it didn't have that much money.

Budget cuts. Budget cuts. That's crazy. That extra? I bet Nate Burleson don't have to wear nobody else clothes. He sure doesn't. He's on CBS in the morning. He's not here. Oh, so he was what extra before? He was an extra before.

you think they made Nate Burles and wear somebody, Billy Bush. You think Billy Bush got to wear another nigger clothes? He does not. What if they put Billy Bush in like a black man's clothes? I really do have my own wardrobe, but I can see the other girl stuff. So there's been a couple times I'm like, oh, that's a really cute dress. I'll take that.

Oh, so it's your choice to wear somebody. Yeah, yeah. No, she's not like you have to. Let me clear that. No, I have my own stuff. But Billy Bush is on the show, right? Mm-hmm. Do you think Billy Bush would wear a black black?

man's jeans. Yes, I do. You think so? I do. You don't think he put them on in his bush, Mayflower skin with slark crawling? No, I think he's... Why did you Swagger Jack, Kurtow? Why did you do that? Why can't you have your own stuff? You worried about the wrong? I'd have my own stuff, but she's not here. And so I was like, oh, that's just sitting there in a closet.

I would call that me being resourceful. Hey, don't go out and buy something new. That's a cute dress. That's a cute dress too. Open out the production. You should steal that top. Like, we should dress. Oh, it's a whole dress. We should dress like 70s. We should do a disco party. You want to bring disco back.

A skate party. A skate party. A roller disco. Yeah. Why can it just be about me having a good idea, Rach. Everything that I have a good idea about is like you change it. What kind of the mood are you in today? I do not.

It's called collaborating. It is true. No? I'm sorry that I'm not in over six feet production. Six feet over. See? See? I'm so proud of myself.

Over six feet. Six feet over. Yeah, so it's interesting when I think about you wearing other people's clothes on extra. I didn't think what? Not happen often. I don't want to make it seem like that. It's been my choice completely. Well, it's crazy because it's like good times at extra.

And you guys, you know what I mean? Temerri-al-extra. I didn't know it was like that there, for real. So it's some real shit. What are you doing this weekend? Oh, my gosh. I'm working all weekend. It's the Grammys.

The parties start tonight. I got to do the Grammy Black. music collective tonight. I got Friday, there's something. Music cares. Saturday's the Clive Davis Gala. And... People who was interviewed

where I invited me to Grammy stuff and I'm like, nah, man, I can't go. Is there like a huge reason? Or you just don't feel like getting out? I just don't feel good about my physical form to be out at the Grammys. And plus... You're the only one worried about that.

And plus, I'm trying to... I'm cutting back. I'm doing good. And everywhere you go, food is such a slut. Food is, they're so sluddy. I just had a screwdriver, so I don't know if I'm doing too good. What? I just drank a screwdriver.

Who drinks screwdrivers? Who's like, are we 18? Oh, drink screwdrivers. A screwdriver. You can't have like oranges. What's wrong with screwdriver? That is like such a beginner's drink. Why?

What do you take some vodka? I would love a poll. I know how you make it. But I never hear somebody saying that they had a screwdriver. I'm making it at my crib. What am I supposed to fucking do? Straight up? No, I don't like that.

Maybe a little red bull? No, first of all, I don't drink Red Bull. Maybe a little lime juice, lemon juice. I like the taste of, I don't like the taste of alcohol like the rest of you alcohol. You just drinking a screwdriver in the middle of the day? Yeah, man, it's tough morning. You all right? It's tough morning.

Are you okay? It is a tough morning. I got a box and I got punched in my shit. I see it a little bit. Yeah, you see, I got boxing. I got punched in my shit and it hurts a little bit. I was putting paws on niggas this morning. Sounds like they were putting them on you too.

Absolutely. What are you doing this weekend? I don't know. Let me see. Do you go to the Grammys? No. God damn Grammys. The Grammys have been cursed to me

ever since Chris Brown and Rihanna didn't show up that year. Was that Grammys? They didn't show up. Everybody was like, what the fuck is going on? And then it was just a whole thing around the Grammys. And I was like, I don't watch this anymore. 2009? 2009.

2012. So dear Whitney. It's just like the Grammys are cursed. Something goes wrong with the Grammys all the time. It's like a curse. Yeah. I got to work Clive Davis's Gala. Clive Davis, huh?

That's when, that's when, um, yeah. This is the hotel. So it's eerie to me that they even still do it. If you go to these gals, this is like people ask me why was it so hard for me to lose weight the first time and now it's different, right? Because you go to these gala's, right? And somebody comes up to you and they go, hey, we have beef angus bacon wrap sliders.

Would you like one? And I'll be like, yeah, give me six of them. It's also the drinking too. I've cut back on drinking and I see the difference. Also, do you do intermittent fasting? That's something that's worked really well for me and Brian. I don't want to fucking hear about what Brian does. I'm just trying to tell you.

It's like I knew you're going to say it. But intermittent fasting is like people even here, our stage director is talking about it. And I'm just saying it works well for a lot of people. Brian got his shit from intermittent Jesus. He was born with it, okay? I'm sick of him. He can't come to the house anymore. He can't come to the house.

His feelings will be so hurt. I don't care. I'll go, I'll come to him. We come to the house. Everybody's eating pizza. The whole fucking thing is going up. Brian, I look over and Brian is like peeling the crust off of chicken wings and trying to get to the middle protein. He's just being, it's just too much.

We hate the wings. I didn't eat pizza either. Why not? Because I'm not a huge fan of cheese And when I saw the wings, it's like, oh, I'll just eat the wings. I don't like cheese. But I would have taken the cheese off and put the toppings back on. But then I saw the wings.

I'm like, they got wings top. I wonder if there's a place that caters to psychopaths like yourself and makes like a cheeseless pizza. All the time. I can order a cheeseless pizza at any time I want. Is that true? Yes. So what do they put on it? So like, if I go to postmate or something and I'm like putting together my

pizza, I can say no cheese. You can do no cheese, little cheese, regular extra cheese. Yeah. So what is it? How does the, how do the topics stay on the pizza? Yeah, what are you doing like? They sit in the sauce. What are you doing like a balancing act trying to keep the goddamn sausage rolling off of the pizza? They sit in the sauce. So you just literally eat like bread sauce and meat. Mm-hmm. In the form of a pizza. You know that's not a pizza, right? It's pizza. It's right. Wait, here's the thing. Can you? Can you put, does Pesto have cheese in it?

Yes. Can you, Pesto has cheese in it? Yes. That's Pesto is cheese? There's Parmesan in Pesto. So you just don't eat cheese. I've done the work. Mac and cheese.

No mac and cheese for Rachel. I taste it Pesto and I was like, there's cheese in here. I can tell. I can smell it. That's really what a cheese stinks to me. That's really what it is. It stinks. You're one of those people.

There's some people that don't fuck with cheese. I think Donnie's a non-chease either. Donnie jump on. I was when I was a kid, but the older I got and my taste buds kind of matured, I learned to love it. Donnie, get off. Ashley, Ashley, what are your thoughts on cheese? I like some cheese, but like not like the overly cheesy stuff. You know, like some people just have a bunch of cheese melted on cheese upon cheese.

It gets really gross after that. It's sloppy. Yeah. You know what's crazy? Is, so did we put a podcast out yesterday? First of all, did we put a, did the live podcast come out? Yeah. Okay, whatever.

After that live podcast, we went to here and now, which is a great little, you had, Rachel stayed with us for a little while. Then she had something this to do that's okay. We went to here and now. This is a great little, a great little gastropub down where we used to live in the archie district. And it was fun. Yeah.

It was fun. Were there cheese-related incidents there? Yeah. What did they? What do we have to have cheese? Y'all got loaded fries I saw. That was Jemie. Nobody had another fry except for Jomey.

So let me tell you how I know. I know how to keep niggas off my shit. Okay. So my thing is I know how to keep niggas off my shit. So I want to put the shit out there. I want to be like, hey, loaded fries for Jomey. Give Jomi the loaded fries. Jomi is literally like I have,

as much love and affection for Jomey as I do one of my own brothers. So I'm going to make sure that Jomey is taking care of. We all eating our shit. Bring my nigger Jomey some loaded fries. And so those are all for him. But then we had the chicken wings that Ashley was just tearing the chicken wings up. Ashley, you can really throw it back, man.

Ashley was she started off shy. And then the more opinions that started to fall, to fly out, more food she started to kind of like stuff down her gullet. And at a time I was like, man, you're eating too many biscuits. I like the biscuits. I ordered biscuits. Yuck. Those

were good. Ashley, those were good biscuits. Those are good biscuits. What? Like, those were good biscuits. They were flaky and I've never seen a biscuit like that before and I never want to see one like that again. What kind of biscuits do you like? Ashley, why are you laughing

at her intact? Homemade biscuits. Those were homemade from here and now. They made right there. Yes. Sorry. I got to respond. Now, you put this into existence. Now I have to respond

to the email about Ant-Man because they're like we need to know now. And if you hadn't said anything, I'm like, oh, now I got to respond. Okay. Carry on. Carry on.

Okay. I have a... Phil just sent me videos and be boxing. I look like... I want to say... Do you put the one up Where you got hit.

Are you fucking nuts? I'm not putting these videos. Did you know about one and three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimfaya, gusalcumab taken by injection is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy and for adults

with active psoriotic arthritis. Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trim Faya. Tap this ad to learn more about Tramfaya, including important safety information. The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul Predicts. Predict the spread, total points, and even the game winner. Sign up and get a $25 bonus.

Offered by Fandul prediction markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant, 18 plus. Bonus is non-withdrawable and expires seven days after receipt. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See terms at fanduil.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. Rachel. Yes.

Have you ever done a measurement just this is not a dis? I swear this is not a dis. Don't say. Have you ever done a measurement just from eyebrow to the top just to see how long the forehead is? Have you ever? Is my forehead looking extra? big to you today? But see, here's the thing. People try to talk about people's foreheads. Oh, people in your comments about my forehead? No. I'm not talking about people. I'm talking about

overall. Your forehead fits your face perfectly. But it, Donnie, what did you think that I was about to say? I knew you were about to say something about her forehead. Because you were looking at it, Donnie? Because Donnie was looking at it. It was the angle. You had a profile look. And he said, I'm not to ask you a question, but don't take offense. So I knew exactly where he was about to go with it. Look, my forehead's getting bigger as my hairline retreats. It was, no, it's the other way. Like, see, you kind of look, nah, not that way.

See, now you're making it less problem. That's kind of, that's kind of it. I think it's bigger like this. No, that's, that's it. That's it. Because it's taken over, you know? Where does that come from? Your pretty hair doesn't have, she doesn't have forehead like that.

In full disclosure. where does that come from? If you don't stop talking about forehead. I'm just saying. In full disclosure, I have absolutely measured the forehead. You have how many inches would you say the forehead? No, I don't know how many inches.

I know from hand. Okay. From the hand. So just let you know that you've measured your forehead with hands. That's how they measure horses. They say this horse is X amount of hands high. So it's prominent. Donnie, what's your worst?

It's the whole hand. I see it right there. Yes, too. But I guess mine is, no, no, no, mine overlaps. Like my thumb is touching the top of my hair line, but still, I'm going ahead and give that a whole hand. Yeah, you're just trying to show that ring off. Look at Brian go.

Look at Brian go with the ring. Donnie, what's your, what's your... I'm going to remember that, Donnie. What's your most regrettable feature, Donnie? Hey, I wouldn't say my friend is my roots. What? That's making assumptions. I didn't say that that was the thing.

I asked what we can all talk about right now, all four of us. I have totally loved to embrace the things like my gap and my forehead. I feel like totally, I feel like they totally make me. And people like Rihanna or like Tyra Banks, they talk about foreheads. And I'm like, these are all beautiful women who embrace their foreheads. And it's taught me to embrace mine as well. Big foreheads is normally associated with being attractive. Big heads.

It's true. Is it? Big heads. Big heads. If you look that up, look that up. Donnie, what's your most regrettable physical feature?

I think, I think about it. I think it's my beard. I can't grow. Popping, pop in. Put your, put your camera on. Let me see.

I have a spotting you. Yeah, you do. There's like a patch right here that is completely hairless. The other side is not just... How many... How many fingertips take up the patch? Yeah, Donnie. On your finger?

One one fingertip. I have measured that, too. You got a stepdad beard. Niggas who are somebody's stepfather always have fucked up beers because they couldn't have a family or their own. They have to come get the next man's family. And it's probably because, you know,

the secondary and beard life, secondary and father life, you have stepdad beard. But you know what? You make it up for it? I can't believe that. How old are you, Donnie? 34. That hair, that hair of hair is fucking fantastic.

I literally, I literally, literally, literally would kill a nigger for that right there. That head of hair is fantastic. Ashley, what's your most regrettable physical feature? I don't know if I have a regrettable one, but I've always thought I had a big forehead as well. But I like it. No, Ashley, I've seen you. It doesn't compare. Actually, what the fuck are you talking about?

Turn the camera off. You're embarrassing me in my forehead. You're bringing all the foreheads down. Out of here. All the foreheads down. This is a forehead. I think for real, though, if we did like a real, like, inches or centimeters measurement, that you, Van and Rachel's foreheads would be about similar in size.

Yeah. Donnie is out of control right now. Donnie, what you? You come to L.A. You look at it. Donnie, what the fuck? I'm just saying. By the way, so nobody asks, I have a couple of things.

I was about to ask you, what are yours? Number one, the titties, bro. The titties, even when I am in great shape, I'm one of them niggas that got a little perky set. It's like even when I'm in great shape and they're gone, it's like, you ever see guys and they're boxers and they don't have like ripped chests? Like they got like little titties.

They got like their little titty meat around the nipple. And it's like, even when I was doing, at one point I was doing 350 pushups a day. Jesus. Trying to address the titty meat. And all they did, they got stronger, but that little, if I had to get surgery, I would get surgery to remove, to remove the titty. You know what I mean? Seriously. I think everybody's regrettable feature is something that they fixate on and other people do not. Like all that you just explain.

It's all memes about your forehead though. Let's keep it all right. Let's keep it up. Are there? Yeah, you seen the Snoop Dog. Oh, you always bring up the Snoop Dog one. I'm not going to lie. That angle and it was like,

because like my extensions were big popping out too, it was like big in the back, big in the front. It was a watermelon head for sure. You got to laugh at these things, laughing. So you can't, you can not take it seriously. I've been rocking this forehead for 37 years.

Me and my forehead aren't going anywhere. I love it. We all should. But on Monday, I'm going to have bangs. You're bangs for the Quantum Mania premiere? We should make a person based upon all of our insecurities. A nigger with a stepdad. I immediately saw Pinky for Pinky for a big ass fucking forehead with some titties.

And a perfect, the rest of it's perfect because Ashley, Ashley has nothing wrong with Thank you, Ashley. Nothing wrong. It's very upsetting. All right, guys, we, Pleasantries are over now. We gave you guys a fat 20 minutes of pleasure trees. We got through a little...

It's been a while. It's been a while. That felt good. I needed that today. Yeah. Talk about everybody. I go put one of my bras on. We...

I'll go put on a cap. Have an interview with Jason Lee, the CEO of Hollywood Unlocked. and also, also the hosts of a brand new show on Revolt. We were supposed to have like a regular interview with Jason Lee. Yep. But the talk was so good that we talked. It was so good.

It was a whole conversation. You know when you have a good interview, when they start throwing questions back at you. Yeah. And it just becomes a back and forth. Yeah, I was, I knew it would be good. I just wasn't expecting it to go where it went. So I'm excited for everyone to hear it.

We are going to give you guys that interview right now. And that's kind of going to be our pod. We've got to come back fresh, locked and loaded Monday. Yeah. Oh, we are definitely coming locked and loaded on Monday. We got somebody that you said was going to come is coming to the podcast. Yeah, it's true. It's true.

All right. This is Jason Lee, Hollow and Unlocked. Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis? which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimphaya, gusalcumab, taken by injection,

is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaques psoriasis, who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy, and for adults with active psoriotic arthritis. Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, your doctor should check. you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your

doctor about Trimphaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimphia, including important safety information. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and make it a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. then you'd want a cargo liner or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors.

So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. All right. We have a cultural staple joining us today on higher learning.

You guys know him and you know his fucking work. It's the CEO and founder of Hollywood Unlocked, former host, the weekly live YouTube show, gagging with Jason Lee. And he is now the host of a brand new talk show, the Jason Lee show, which premiered last month over on Revolt. Shout out to everybody on Revolt, Monique, all my people over there. Their weekly one-hour show features exclusive interviews, trending hot topics, celebrity interviews, and more.

Damn, look at the fucking lineup. Cardi, Remy, Ma, Lala, Anthony. Eich and Tina Turner and Claudia Jordan are all gonna Blueface and Chrishon are all gonna be on this show Jason Lee joins us today on

on higher learning my man what's up with you bro man that was a great intro I love that that's what we do brother Jason I've known you for a while my first question to you is your career is taking a lot

twist and turns man like you're hosting your own show it goes from Hollywood unlocked When you first came to this city from the fucking tough, scrabble streets of Stockton, California, is hosting a one-hour show what you imagined that you would be doing? No, I mean, I knew I wanted to, well, first of all, when I came to L.A., I came by way of my job as the director of a labor union,

represented healthcare workers. And so I was already in the world of organized messaging leadership, fighting for the underdog, you know, fighting against oppression. So for me, coming here as part of the day job of leading for better, safer staffing standards for nurses at the bedside and then partying that night at Jamie Fox's house, I found this weird duality where like, I enjoyed my job because I love advocacy, community work organizing, fighting for people and, you know, at the workplace.

But then at the same time, I was very intoxicated by celebrity culture, pop culture, and wanting to become my own boss and have my own platform. I had a lot of opinions about what I was seeing in Hollywood and, you know, was doing it as a hobby. And then once I started really figuring out tech and what being black in tech meant as having a doc website and then how to build a brand, I thought about it as a organizer, how do I get these major cities around me? How do I get this industry to rally behind what I'm doing? And I had to do a lot of organizing, which was developing platforms, podcasts, TV, reality shows, this that. But then I also had to code switch and figure out how to maneuver in ways of being able to be relatable to different audiences. So, yeah, the twist and turns, in my opinion, is just really been strategically code switching to get to where I am today.

Did you, when you decided to make that switch and step into this world and creating your own thing, did you always want to be the face of it or did you want to be behind the scenes? Well, I don't care about fame or being famous because fame has never been the focus. but I felt that the thing that would separate me from the ball alerts in the Shade Room was having a face to it because I wanted people to see what I didn't want to hide, not that the others were doing, but I didn't want to hide behind my platform. I wanted very much to be visible with it. And so there was always this constant negotiation between making sure Hollywood-Lon-Lock was at the forefront and I was kind of behind it or parallel to really pushing it, but not trying to supersede it. Now I'm in a place where Hollywood-Lon-Lock has its identity and has its footh on. culture and on pop culture. Now Jason Lee

is really pushing forward to be his own individual brand in the midst of all that. That's a delicate dance, right? Mm-hmm. Because there is in, there's an advantage to maybe Angie, Juju from

the Shay Room or Robin from Baller Alert is that they are not necessarily tethered to what goes on those platforms, right? It doesn't seem like it's coming from them. For like

you or like academics because you guys' face is so prominent that it seems like sometimes when Hollywood unlocked post something, people think that it's what Jason Lee is saying. How cognizant of that are you?

I love this higher learning because this is really good journalism. I feel like people don't ask questions. I think people don't ask these questions because for me, I think it's very easy for people to put me in a box or label me or say you're this or that or it's just easy. He's Hollywood

on Lock. No, Hollywood-on-Lock is literally my vision for pulling back the veil of Hollywood and showing you a different perspective or closer access to your favorite celebrity. That's the idea behind Hollywood a lot. Jason Lee has always been a very highly opinionated thought leader, whether it was on the Trayvon Martin

campaign with the family or it's at the Kaiser Permanente for whatever the issues were there. And I think that I found myself in many ways always doing this weird dance where like, yo, I like you as a person. Jason Lee loves you and your show, your music, your fashion. But Hollywood Unlock thinks that how you treat your wife is trash or how you handle this situation is trash. Your relationship with Hollywood Unlock, don't got nothing to do with me. Because even though we may be friends, that song you just put out was horrible. And it ain't tracking. And so people oftentimes struggle with the

balance, whereas I don't struggle with the balance because if you want to be friends with Jason Lee, you have to understand that his business is his business and it's not going to change just because you have this personal relationship. And yeah, there have been times where I've had to talk to people through that, but the real people who are really like in my corner that happen to be public figures, they get it and it is what it is. Can I can I get one? Oh, Rachel, go ahead. Is it a follow? Because mine is two. So it's a follow. Go ahead. I have a follow. It better not be my question. go.

Well, we'll see if it is. Having said that, Jason, we both know that it's people that Hollywood Unlocked would not do a negative story on. Give me one. Rihanna. Well, let's

unpack that. Let's unpack that. You know what's funny is I told Rihanna. Right. Jason Lee loves her so much that Hollywood Unlock will never write about her.

Again, if she wanted us to. We will never write about her at all and just, I would have my personal relationship with her. But you know, the reality is, is that there are different platforms that, like the Shade Room does not write about Cardi B anymore because they've had their issues, right?

Like, we're independent media where we work outside the ecosystem of mainstream. We're not controlled or governed by the mandates that come down from, I'm the come down. So I get to decide what the come down is. I don't have to go up and ask for permission. And I choose to write about, We choose to cover who we choose to cover,

but then we also choose that some things are just not necessarily coverable or that we just lose interest or whatever the public says, oh, we want you to follow this person. If we just don't want to follow them, we choose not to. But as far as Rihanna goes, I mean, if Rihanna comes out a club tomorrow, drunk and follows it out on the street, the first thing Jason's going to do is calling me like, girl, why he didn't call me so we could fall out together?

Yeah, right, right, right. Was that reposito? Was that Reposito? And then based on that, Hollywood Online will be able to write a story that may be different than this big salacious, you know, scandalous story, you know? I really do. I think I asked you this before one time or something similar to it. It is really amazing to me how you are able to,

I don't even know if I should say walk that line because you, in this, world of Hollywood, people want you to tell them yes and to build them up and to do and everything to be positive. But you're able to stay true to yourself and keep it real and separate the two, yet maintain close relationships with people like Mariah Carey who presented you with an award or Rihanna as we're talking about. You've kind of answered the question already on how you've done that, but maybe for someone who's trying to break into this business. Because we see a lot of people taking control of their own platforms and really trying to create. What advice would you give them to where they don't have to be all of this or all of the other,

that they can more walk it in the way that you have? I mean, I think you need to stay true to who you are and what your mission is, right? Like if your goal is to try to be cool with everybody and everything, then you're going to lose the authenticity of what you stand for. and at some point your cover is going to be blown. I think the thing with me, if I like you, I like you. If I don't like you, I don't like you. If I don't care about whatever the issue is or I feel some type of way, what you see is what you get.

I think the reason why I've been able to build so many relationships with people is because, like, I see Van Lathen or you, Rachel, the same way I see a Rihanna or a Floyd Mayweather or whoever, I see people. And, you know, I don't see, you know, yes, we know some of these people are big stars, but guess what? When you take away the cameras

and when you strip it all back, we all have vulnerabilities, we all have dreams, we all have desires, or we have shortcomings, or we believe that people don't see us. And so I feel like I try to tap into just the humanity of who people are.

And then I have no problem saying that somebody's foolish shit and that they're a trash bag. But it's all relatable. And it's my perspective. And some people would say, oh, you know, I was just at lunch with somebody.

And they were saying to me, oh my God. you know, they were to give me my accolades. I said, well, it just depends on who you talk to because I'm sure you're going to talk to people who are going to tell you I'm this or I'm this or I'm trash. Don't trust me. She goes, on the way over here, two people told me

not to trust you, you were this, you were that. And I said, see, I said, but typically those are people who've either paid attention to narratives created by other people or haven't dialed in close enough to exactly what I'm doing because if I'm all those things, why don't they say, this man built a $50 million business from Instagram? This man was able to do this move, this move, this move, this man, you know, was able to do all these different things.

And that's because I think, and this may be controversial, but black people in our culture is so focused for the most part on trying to tear apart the fabric of what built the person, then to honor what's in front of them. And some could say I'm a part of the problem because I have a platform that often talks about. Yeah. Yeah, people often say you're part of the problem. But I always say, you know, who's the problem? the people doing it, the platform talking about it, or the people who can't consume enough of it. You have to look into it and be very introspective

from where you sit. Like, do you like to watch the love of hip-hops or the Zeus Network shows? If not, okay, is your life a Zeus network show? Okay, if not, do you own a Zeus network to talk about the Zeus Network show? We're all a part of the same ecosystem. It just depends on where you sit

if you take any responsibility for it or not. Are you on Zeus Network? I've executive produced some shows over there. Not none of the ones that are now, but Rachel, go ahead and do it, Rachel. No, no. No, no.

We just had a conversation. No, no. We just had a conversation. No, no. We'll say that for Monday. We got a guest coming on. Natalie's coming on on Monday. So we have our conversations go all over the place.

I have no idea how we started talking about this. We started talking about a Zeus network. And I said, I'm not for it. I just have a huge problem that it's black people putting black people on display in this way. It just seems very problematic to me. And I just hate that it's a network that's for us, by us, and this is the kind of stuff.

It's the low-hanging fruit to me that we're putting out there. Do I a member? Do I? No, but I see enough. I see enough, right? And so Natalie says, well, this is actually, her argument is, well, we're in control, because we're making the decisions.

So it's actually better for us because we can control what people, you know, to make us look a certain way. And I'm like, well, the way is bad. The way you're looking is bad. Is it? Let me first validate what you said because you don't share that opinion by yourself.

And in fact, I just recently reached out to Lemieux to have a conversation with him about a lot of the content that we're promoting because I think that black, Black people are not a monolith. There's definitely a segment of our culture that has an appetite for that content. And he's feeding that appetite very, very properly because they're not malnourished at all for that type of content. But I do think we need to diversify.

Recently, I saw he's promoting Floyd's fight in London, so he's live streaming that. So he's evolving. I will say the one thing that I always say is that as somebody who's been on reality TV that was driven by conflict and combat at love and hip-hop, that wasn't the door that I wanted, but it was the door that opened for me to get in, that I had an issue with white people profiting off the pain of the black community or storylines that were in our, and BET and VH1 is owned by a white woman.

And this network is owned by a black man. And, you know, whether we like the content or not, I have no problem. I don't have as much of a problem seeing a black man develop content for a part of our culture that wants. to see it because he's profiting from it. Now, does that mean that what you said is wrong? No, I get criticism all the time where people say, well, why are you over there on Zeus Network when you left VH1 and called them a plantation? Well, because that's how I felt when I was at VH1 and that's not how I

feel at Zeus. But it doesn't take away from what you think and it doesn't take away from the fact that one thing I will say as a business model, what I do respect about Lemuel is he's not only he's not only paying everybody well, but he's giving them profit sharing in their show. So, Natalie's making way more money now. Jocelyn's making way more money now than they were on oxygen and VH1. And I kind of like that. So I don't disagree on the content because the content is what it is. But I totally respect the business model and the benefit that the people who are choosing to be over there are making.

Well, you guys know how I feel. I don't think that black people have any responsibility to be upstanding. I think we act how we act. We put it on TV. And it's nothing that you can do to make them think anybody. better or any worse of you, history has proven that. I want to ask you a question. Even Kanye?

Yeah, you beat me to the punch. Let's talk about it right now. You beat me to the punch. Let's talk about it right now. You were the head of media for Kanye West. Okay? Is that what the title was? It was the head of media, right? Yeah. Yeah. I have two

questions. One did I have a follow up. When you were the head of media for Kanye West, what did that job entail? Okay. So the way the job was created was it came out of meeting a few times doing the interview, showing him how to control his narrative, talking to him about how the media works, that you can't control journalists, you can't control talking heads, you can't control the people who tell the stories. You can only control you and what you do, and then we do what we do, and hopefully if it's somewhere

lines up, right? So really, it started out organically, just building the relationship. I had a lot of opinions from the outside, from what I've seen and heard, but I've also been somewhat on the inside, having gone to Sunday services and been around the Kardashians, whatever. So I seen him optically very differently than he would present himself in certain situations, but also very familiar of, like, instances like you had with him at TMZ where that was just something that was just so overwhelming for us as black people to have to endure from somebody who's been so important to us. I think you articulated, very, very articulated how the culture felt about him in that moment. So I looked at it like, you know, I'm at a point where

I feel in my career I've been misunderstood many times. I feel like in my career I've made decisions that would have been horrible that don't reflect the heart of who I am or the fabric of who I am and they live on and they play on and on and on. And narratives have been built that I've fed into or even the messy thing. After a while, people say, oh, he's messy, messy. If I can't get your attention by an invitation on my show, then guess what? I'm just going to criticize you or have an opinion about what you do until I get your attention.

Then when I get your attention, then we can have a conversation. Then when you come in, you see it's not that bad. and then now here we are. When Kanye approached me about the head of media position, what he talked about was he is a visionary, and he is a genius in many ways. He laid out a vision for this Donda program that he wanted to develop

where it had various pillars of things that fall under this Donda umbrella. And there was a billion-dollar commitment to building this vision. The vision focused on ways of helping the homeless, ways of investing in black media, ways of clothing and architecture and foods and all these different things. So when it came down to the media, what he said was he earmarked a certain amount of money to acquire all these different outlets and they were specified on the list, a lot of which we know drives culture that I was like, oh my God, I love all these platforms.

And he said, would you be the head of media to help, one, the acquisition of these properties and also develop a strategic operation for them all. I say absolutely. As long as they're focused on driving culture, speaking for the black boys, you know, the different things, we started as we started that conversation, we had a brunch and we brought together

all the top black storytellers from different verticals, independent media, YouTube, podcast, whatever, vogue and vanity fairs. And we had a brunch where we talked about controlling our narrative. And at the time, everything seemed aligned. Then I think going through the divorce, the Pete Davidson stuff, the this, the that that, it became a whole other thing where it became crisis control, advising on how to deal a crisis, putting out.

And then it just became exhausting to the point to where it wasn't what I thought it was going to be. And so I chose to dip out. You chose to dip out specifically, if I remember, after the fashion show where him and Candace Owens dawned the. the White Lives Matter T-shirts. Well, it was right before, and it was right before because when he did bring me in, the first thing I wanted to do was kind of a line on his social media. So the messaging we were going to be creating about driving culture for it would be established and very consistent.

Once he said, I'm going to ask, when I ask you for my access to my Twitter is when I'm going to announce I'm running for president. And I want everybody who works with me to believe in me and vote for me. And I have my own political views, very not, I mean, I believe women's right to choose. believe in gay marriage. I believe, you know, like I'm pro-black, pro-gay, pro-woman's rights. So I knew that we didn't align on that. So I knew I had some limited time. But what I, when he asked for the password, that's what I knew where he was getting ready to go. Then all that was happening and I dipped out. But I will say one more thing, because this is the thing I think people

didn't really understand about the relationship. This man put me at the table with the president of Gap, the president of Adidas. And I was able to challenge them on how they're not giving back to the community. This man made Adidas $3 billion and they never spent a cent in our community. They never invested anything in programs for the black community. They didn't even pay for marketing. I said, how do you make $3 billion and I put 5% back into black programming or education programs for kids or but none of that. And the same with Gap where the brands I thought were in the right place. They were all ready to do it, but he just wasn't moving on it because he was too consumed with P. Davidson. And so I'm like, yo, bro.

If you put me in a position to get these brands to spend hundreds of millions of dollars in our community, but then you're not moving the needle to make it happen, then what am I here for? You know? And so it just didn't line up with what I was there for. So yeah. So do you feel like because this is a thing, and this is a conversation that's bigger in terms of how we sometimes get in the way of us, right? do you feel like the Pete Davidson situation, the Kim situation, derailed Kanye West's plans for good that he was going to do? And do you feel like that has led to the really extreme spiral that we've seen recently because it just continued to get worse and worse and worse, Jason, after you were gone?

I think the great question, nobody's ever asked because people don't want the answer because the outlets I've been doing the interviews with are part of that ecosystem. One, I think that the conversation you had with him at TMZ, it got his attention because he heard you, he heard the reaction from the culture, and he felt the impact of his words. There were instances where things happen where he gets it, right? when he says that what he said about the Jews, how he did that, how he handled that was so crazy that I would have never said that's how you handle it. But the conversation about the construct of mainstream versus independent or urban, the conversation about who controls what, we all know

what it is, but how you talk about it, who you bring into a conversation to make it more inclusive, inclusive is important. He didn't do that. I think that he has a big heart for his children and he never wanted to become a baby daddy. He never wanted to. to leave his children the way his father was left him or was pulled away from him or his mother left. And he realized while he was trying this whole new way of getting the culture to understand his apology or wanting to move in different direction, dealing with his mental health, dealing with the fact that Pete Davidson would send him a picture of him in bed saying, I'm in bed, fucking your wife. And then his kids riding around on Pete Davidson's lap as if it was a fucking joke. This is a black man. These are black children. I just, I understand how he was being gaslit on top of the Kardashian media machine every day. It was literally a fight every day with the craziest stories that would be dropped.

And this was while he was trying to create Donda to and trying to put the easy together and all that. And so I think for him, and this is just my opinion, I started to just see this rapid decline of a human being, let alone his Kai West, let alone cultural icon, let alone disconnected from reality. at times, let alone, maniac, narcissism, all of that's real. This is a human being who, on his own, was walking around town with no security, pulling up in Uber's, you know, living in a hotel, going through custody battles. And so I think the weight of just all of that just became a lot and everybody was trying to take from him, take, take, take, take, take, take, take. And so I don't think he had enough people around him like me or you to say my nigger,

like, we got to get off of this shit because this right here is going to go left or this right here is detrimental. And there were times he would ask me for my opinions about those things. But then when it became too heavy, it was really about having people around that just said yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And that's when all the yes scenes started just, it just became overwhelming. And, you know, I'm not here to make nobody be great if they don't want to be great. But I'm absolutely not willing to jump off the cliff with you when I feel like I have a lot more life to live. You know what I mean? Would you go back and work?

with him. If he came back to you and because when I hear you talk about his original intention, you were aligned with that. And he seemed like you really wanted to do good for us and the community and the culture. If he came back to you and asked you to be a part of, I forgot the exact title, but I had media. Donda, yeah, yeah. Would you come back and work with him? No, no, I would still be friendly with Kanye. I still have a great deal of respect for him. You know, I have this on my desk right here. It's a text message that he sent me.

And it says power is empowering the powerful. You're the next wave. No one can touch. Your mind and attitude are sharp as German engineering. Don't let anyone push your buttons. You're becoming a made man. Don't push your own buttons, 2020 and beyond. But he did all of that.

he didn't empower me as being powerful. You know, he got in his own way and he allowed people to push his buttons and then he pushed his own buttons. And so I think for me, I would rather be a friend to him and say what he needs to hear than to be somebody on the inside that's not listened to. And when I was in Dubai about a month ago, I did text him to say, hey, man, I'm thinking about you and I have an idea. And I don't want any part of it publicly and I don't want to be paid for it. But I have an idea. because this was around the time that, what's his name,

the basketball player, what was the name, Kyrie. Kyrie Irving. I said, what's happening with Kyrie right now is a moment where you guys can pull together a documentary to uncover the veil of racism in America and have a conversation that we had and pull in inclusive people of different groups in Kyrie and talk about it.

And you can almost kind of like flip it on its head and make it look like you planned all this, even though he may not have in a conscious way. But he wanted me to text him to plan, and I don't do the texting because it ends up on Instagram. So I just left it at that. I just break them in. And I'm out.

No, I wouldn't go back. I don't feel like I can do anything there, you know? This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable Internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more.

Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty, limited-time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango, Yuzu chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious.

Get savings with yellow sales signs storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. Tell us about the show, man. Tell us about the show, the revolt show. Is this a, we're in a new sort of thing. We're doing a kind of, like, what's, what's Jason got going on? We got a late night vibe going on here.

This is a companion piece to Corisha, please. Like, what are we doing? No. You know, we, no. In fact, our show, we're, we're, we, we shoot the show during the day, because of party schedule we shot at night, and Remy show we shot at night. We were just getting the group of people

when we can and kind of figure it over. We have new rules now. We shoot between 10 and 2. We shoot during the day. It's a daytime set. We're having cocktails during the day, but it's not really driven by the cocktails. That's just there for people who want to get littered,

just, you know, knock some edge off. But, you know, it's really, we're having fun with it. You know, it's a black-owned gay man hosting a show that he owns on a black man's network. And we're talking to people that the culture or pop culture or politics find interesting or not about the issues that are happening. I think when you talked about Blueface and Creshaun, you know, some people drew criticism.

We drew criticism after following Cardi with that. But they are the most popular toxic relationship on the Internet. And I wanted to explore the toxicity to see what it was. And we were able to sit through an hour and a half of the most dysfunction in the world to ask questions that I think were deep, they were difficult questions for them because they're used to just the charades

and the bullshit. And, you know, but, you know, we're going to interview people like Kamala who have invited on the show or people like Mary J. Blige or, you know, we're talking to anybody driving culture, pop culture, and politics. So I'm having fun with it.

Wait, Kamala Harris is coming on? We're talking. We're trying to figure out the day. Because I was going to ask you, I know, it's not like you can get anybody. Has anybody turned you, down about being on your show? Nobody's turned us down that we've asked yet, no.

But Kamala, you know, we had coffee with her last week. She came to L.A. We had a private meeting with her. I've been going back. I've been going to see her a couple of times, like, working with her team over the past seven months because I just, I'm from California, so I remember her as Attorney General. And I remember how unpopular she was because of her enforcement of the three strikes law, but I also understand

politics. As Attorney General, she doesn't create the law. She enforces the law that were created by the people that we elect in office. And so a lot of our people that don't vote or aren't present in the process don't understand how politics work. And I haven't understood why people,

specifically black people, have not been interested to rally behind her. But I also understand that she hasn't been as front-facing invisible on our issues either. And so we had a meeting last week and we talked. And one of the things, and the reason why I want to share this today is because I haven't shared this with anybody. I looked at the criticism she got online for going to Tyree Nichols's funeral and for speaking out. And I want to go back to the meeting we have with the vice president last week. It was me. I invited Angie from the Shade Room. I invited Kyle from the neighborhood talk. I invited Yussef from Spiritual Work and James DeBose from Foxhole. And the five of us sat there with the vice president of the United States for an hour. And I said to her, we're here because we want to understand how to support you better and also how to make you more aware of our issues.

So that way we can bridge the gap and get behind standing, standing behind the first black vice president, the first female vice president. And something that, you know, is historical. Because if you think about it, Obama being the first president or her being the first vice president is historical. But people feel differently about Obama than they do about her. And in the conversation, I could see her mind is so focused on all of the world. I mean, she has the whole world that she's working with. And when I said to her, these are the things that we need you, like, we need you to really get behind. So to see, and the reason why I'm sharing this is because I wasn't going to share that,

but to see her go to this man's funeral, to stand up there as a vice president, to demand just, and defend him before these police officers have been found guilty is going to put her in a world when with white people and then black people are still online going, oh, that's just politics. She's just doing that for the look. But if she wouldn't have black people would have said why she ain't there. It's like, damn if you do, damn if you don't. And so I feel like you can think you could be critical of someone's performance, but then still give them a good job when they do.

something right. And I feel like her standing there in that moment when Black Lives Matter organizations arguably let us down with the whole money shit or this shit or whatever, this black woman took a moment out of her black day to go stand on that black stage with leaders like Al Sharpton who've been fighting for us since our grandparents were kids to take a moment to amplify how important it was for accountability and we still attacked her. I'm like, damn, I really don't know at this point what it's going to take to really get people to invest in giving her an opportunity. So yeah, very interesting. Rihanna, Floyd Mayweather Jr., Cardi B.

One got to go, Jason. Rihanna, Boy Mayweather Jr. out of your life. Rihanna, Floyd Mayweather, Jr., Cardi B. This is the Holy Trinity of Jason Lee's famous friends. Add one more person. Not add one more person. No, this is the holy trinity of Jason. Lee's famous. No, because if you add Mariah, you're going to get rid of Mariah. This is the holy trinity of Jason Lee's famous friends. Rihanna, Floyd Mayweather Jr., Cardi B, one guy to go. If you get rid of Rihanna before her Super Bowl performance, you're nuts. Go ahead. Do you know what she's doing for the Super Bowl? No, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I spent more money for this Super Bowl than I don't even watch football. I don't even know who the Cowboys playing.

I don't know if you know who's fucking blamed. We wish. Van, I fuck with you, but I can't answer that question because... Smart man. What the smart man? This is not the Jason Lee that I know. This is not the Jason Lee. Rihanna, Lloyd Mayweather Jr., Cardi B., Jason, one got to go.

Give it to him. I choose myself. I sacrifice myself. And that's like you're such a success. such a good answer. Tell us why, Jason. Tell us why. Okay. Floyd Mayweather is literally the funniest, most pettiest friend I have in my phone. Literally, the only differences between both of us is I'm gay, he's straight, and he's wealthy,

and I'm on my way. That's the only difference. He's funny and he's loyal and he believed in me when nobody did and he supported me. And he's there for every single phone call. The first way that I heard of you was actually on, like, I covered on TMZ, an interview that you did with Floyd, when Floyd came on Hollywood unlocked. And it was the showman was like, you don't know Jason Lee? Jason Lee, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, oh, okay, that's how I got on Jason Lee, your relationship with Floyd. And he always ends every single phone call or every text with, do you need me?

And I think oftentimes we have friends where you never know when somebody's ready to check out, the Twitches, the whoever's, where they just needed somebody to let them know, that they're there for him. So Floyd, number one. Cardi talk every single day, like my sister, I'm a champion of her Cinderella story. I love her. She's the most beautiful kids. She's just a great friend.

And then Rihanna, I mean, it's Rihanna. Rihanna is, it's almost crazy because now that I know her, I see her a little bit more as a human than I did before because she's Rihanna, but she's so grounded in reality. She's so down.

She's so down. When your ex-colleges tried to take her baby photos, as you know, and put them out, she called me and gave them to me. And she could have gave those to, Rachel, she could have gave those to people. She could have gave those to Vogue. She could have gave them. She chose black media. And I will always remember it's those things about her that making sure that were included

in the Amazon events and that were on the carpet. we're getting access to her. I mean, people at that level are not doing that for new media or black media. And so I always got to be like, yo, I fuck with that. And she's just a real one. I got to say something about that before I let you go. Just about that. Because people don't know.

People don't really know how this really goes. First of all, Rihanna is all of that, right? She's like just a crazy, regular person to talk to, like, if you ever have any communication with her. But what he just said is so important. I'll tell you why. I remember when I was at TMZ, there were people, celebrities, black celebrities, that whenever they needed me to put a fire out, to do whatever, whatever, whatever, I'm there.

Let's do this. Let's talk about this. They said this about you. Let's do that. Blah, blah, blah, blah. But then something would happen like they would get engaged or they would do something. And then I would, I'd see it on People magazine, or I'd see it on something. And it made me look so bad in the office. it made me look so bad in the office. Like in the office, like, so you come in and be like, yo, so and that's your, natural people? And then they go back to the top. It made me look so bad. So for her to do something like that, for her to give that type of story,

you guys have no idea in that world how momentous a story that is from a celebrity of her level. That's love. Man, let me, let me, okay,

I'm glad you said, let me color her in just a little thing. When I saw her in New York at her party, I have this thing about me where like, I can sense shit.

I just have, I have very good intuition. I can feel energy. I'm with her chilling and ASAP's right there and I love them together and I'm looking at her and I'm looking at him

and I go, are y'all going to have a baby? And she looks at me and she's like, what do you mean? And I'm like, are y'all going to get, have a baby and she's like, well, if it happens, it happens.

I'm like, are y'all going to get married? She's like, why are you asking us? I go, I don't know. Something just made me, I'm looking at y'all. She had found out right before that event that she was pregnant, but she didn't tell me then. She kept the secret. She was playing around because she had a cup of water with a lemon in and acting like

she was drinking. She was doing a lot to really throw me off. Right. When the baby picture came out, when her pregnancy picture came out, I text her said, congratulations, I'm happy for you. And she called me. She said, oh my God, me and ASAP, me and RRap. me and Rocky said we were going to give you

the first baby, the announcement. We were going to let you break it. But it kind of got out. We're just so excited, blah, blah. That's okay, not problem. So when the baby photos were taken and she knew it was going to come out, she thought about that and went all the way back

to that and called me and gave that. And that band, as you know, is very rare when they think about us in the condition of getting their shit out. Yeah. You still got your contacts. over at Buckingham Palace? How's that?

No, no. They died. What was that? You got to run it down, bro. If you guys don't remember, Jason, when I tell you, Jason was first,

he was first, first, first, first, first, first, no, Jason was first, first, way first on the depth of the queen. So what,

bro, what the fuck, I love how Rachel just threw me that life rap, you know? It's your intuition. Listen, listen. We have new protocols at Hollywood on live for verifying sources. But let me send this. Again, if I told you who the source was, you would be like, wow, like, you know,

and then when you call the Buckingham Palace and they say, we can't confirm or deny, what does that even mean? Like, she's not dead. What do you mean? So there were a lot of things that factors went in that. And I think like just as Rihanna gave me the baby photos, yeah, I had a tangible photo. I did not have a photo of Her Majesty laid out in the thing there. I think where we went wrong a couple of things.

One, we shouldn't have ran some shit like that, but we did. But I think the headline was the queen was found dead. Yeah. Not the queen reportedly died. Not sources said the queen reportedly died. The queen was found dead. And then when I started getting attacked and I was calling around and getting these confirmation, I was doubling and triple down.

I learned a lot. A lot of people thought it was a growth hack. Like, he just did that to get clicks. I did. We did get a lot of traffic. I mean, I got far more attention than I wanted to. But I don't want to get attention when I'm wrong. But I will say, having got the attention, but I was wrong,

you know, we can laugh about it because we're not all perfect. And I pride myself in getting everything right. That was one big one that we got wrong. Black Twitter says otherwise, they say that I was first because I knew before everybody else, but whatever, I'll leave it with that. Yeah, that was a very, that was a very trying time. Yeah, yeah.

People don't know. I remember, like, when TMZ got into the whole little Wayne situation, you know what? I won't talk about that. Jason Lee. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But, no, what happened? No, no, wait.

I'll tell you, Rachel, they killed Lil Wayne twice. Ken Brio killed a little Wayne twice. Wait a minute, though. Man, you were working there both times? No, no, no. I wasn't in the newsroom yet. Wait, wait, wait, wait. They killed Little Wayne twice, and you know what, Rachel?

Did they attack Harvey the way they attacked me? No. Oh, they attacked me, though. They attacked me, though. It was niggas that I was out on the basketball court with. I had just started working here. And what people don't understand about sourcing is, let's say,

that I talk to Rachel's husband Brian and Rachel's husband Brian tells me something about their relationship that's a rock solid source so I can go to like if my source

like that that's a rock solid source I can go to press with that like if he tells me that you guys are like if you guys were strange and he tells me you guys are getting back together

or whatever even if it doesn't happen that story's a man let me ask you this if Rachel's sister tells you something, wouldn't you believe that too? If Rachel's sister told me that's, once again, a really good source. That's, I would, I would take that source as being good. What happens is when it starts to be the hairdresser or the barber or somebody like that that's just talking shit or whatever.

But, so I'll say this. When somebody might say, hey, we have a source that says somebody's in this condition. It's not that they weren't in that condition. is that they got better. The condition of dying? No, they said that he was about to die. Anyway. Rachel, Rachel, some people believe she was dead.

Let the people believe what they want to believe, okay? All right, that is Jason Lee. Jason, tell them the best way. Wait, wait, wait, no, no. We can't get out of here, Tygo back to something because I said a lot and I didn't hear something. What do you two think about Kamala Harris? Oh, what do I think about it? I will speak specifically to what you said.

Yeah. About her coming. You said it would have been damned as she did, damned as she didn't, right? If she didn't come, I wouldn't have thought anything of it. Her coming and where we are right now with policing in this country, especially with the Biden administration that said they were going to do more. And the George Floyd Act is just sitting there and everybody's forgotten about it and moved

on, it's hard for me to be so proud that she took that moment out of her day to go there when I haven't seen them do anything to correct what's happening right now with policing and black people in this country. It would be different if she stood up there and said, we got to get rid of qualified immunity or something like that, or this is what I'm currently working on. To me, it is performative. I'm not saying that she didn't care. I'm not saying that she, I understood why she went there, but it also does feel like someone from the Biden administration should be here to support this family during this tragedy. And so this is what I'll say to it. And me and Rachel had had that conversation before. Jason, at this point, like in a serious way,

I don't doubt the hearts of anyone because it's not in my way to doubt people's hearts and minds. I know that all of these people are incredibly well-meaning. And this is what I'm saying, we've had police massacres, um, like, it's been like a Frankie Beverly and Mays concert. They've been on tour everywhere.

Florida, Texas, Memphis, Baton Rouge, Los Angeles multiple times, Colorado, Minneapolis, New York, Kenosha, Wisconsin.

It's like, Ferguson, everywhere, right? There is a systemic and large problem. The point is now, in my opinion, who is actually,

serious about solving. To me, I'm agnostic about her going to the about her going to the funeral. I don't care. Do you know why? I can't speak for the family of Tyree Nichols and what it might have meant to them. I can't speak for the family

of Tyree Nichols and what it might admit to for them for her to show up. But for the next person that's in the crosshairs of the police, her atten to that funeral meant absolutely nothing. It just doesn't move the needle. To me, the question is, And I'm glad that she's having conversations with people that are in some way tapped into black to black people's lives and understand like what it is on the ground that we care about.

Because like, what's going to happen now? Like you have Tim Scott and his people over here and they have their own version of a police bill. You have Democrats and what they have and they have their own version of police bill. Each side says that the other bill will not work. And while they stand static on it, niggas just get. killed. And so my thing is, and I don't have any, I don't think that any of these people besides the people on the right who are acting in bad faith are bad. I'm just like, what's the answer? You feel what I'm saying? I'm like, like, what happens now? You know what I mean? Like,

you've went to the funeral. They've put them in the ground. We're literally counting seconds until it happens again. Well, let me say, let me let me say this. And I want to just take a second to this, because I think this is a conversation at some point. There has to be a cultural roundtable with a lot of us who can have a very in-depth conversation about it, right? When it comes to police, there are human beings that are bad police. And if you watch 13, this is even the 13th Amendment. If you do some research, you see the trajectory of racism in our country,

Jim Crow, prisons, all the stuff. And police, we know there's a major issue of police, right? I feel like, one, if she did say there that Congress, needs to pass this bill, the George Floyd Police and Act, and Biden's ready to sign it, federal government or the White House administration and the Senate and the House and how that all operates, if they could write the bill today and sign it and enact it in law, do we believe they would do it? I believe they would. Do we believe they can?

I don't think they can. They don't have the votes, yeah. And who's holding? Like, I talked to somebody the other day and said, who are you voting for next election? I'm not voting. My vote. it doesn't matter. How many of us feel that way and don't take the responsibility of voting in the right people to make decisions that make it easier for us to enact legislation that holds people accountable

or whatever? You know, Black Lives Matter started this whole defunding the police movement and then where is that at? I don't even hear it anymore. It's almost like we only get outraged when we see people killed like Tyree. Because we lost, Jason. We lost. We lost. We lost. The defund the police movement

I'll tell you. So every time you hear, so people can hear me, every time you hear a right wing nut use the word woke as a pejorative, you lost, you lost that word. That word had a beautiful meaning, had a beautiful understanding, and they were able to take the word and pervert it and use it to mean people who want to fuck up bathrooms and teach racism to children. What happened to defund the police was there was a framework of what that meant, and that meant a reimagining of public safety to, to where we don't have $6 billion going to the police department so they can kill niggas more efficiently.

What we have is that money reinvested into communities, into mental health programs, into situations of conflict de-escalation. That's what defund means. However, the other side is better than we are. Fact. So what they took, they said, hey, these crazy

lesbians, transgenders, and niggers want a world with no police. And the people got so scared. They hijacked the movement and switch the message in. Absolutely. And so now it's like, we got to sit around going, well,

who was defunded the wrong thing to say? No. It was exactly what you should have been saying. It's just you need to drop your nuts and have a fucking fun time about it. Jason got me riled up here. It also doesn't help that Biden said he didn't believe that we should defund the police.

So you got that too. That's the administration. Let me say this. And I'm not defending Biden, but what I will say is, as somebody who ran campaigns in the union, right? Think about this. A young black man at the time

going in a hospital and telling Filipino and white nurses to leave their patients at the bedside and go on strike. How do you make caregivers believe that the smartest thing to do to win as caregivers and care providers is to leave their patients at the bed.

How do you do that? You craft the right message. You make sure that you build a coalition of support around that message and you make sure that you educate, educate, educate, educate, agitate, agitate, agitate, then move people to action. We were poor organizers for that movement.

You know, and I don't... 100% disagree. We have to share in the blame of that. I mean, I agree. I mean, I agree. Yeah, definitely agree. We have to share in the blame and the responsibility to that, But that doesn't mean that the fight is done and that we go away. We keep figuring it out.

We figure out the switch of messaging and how to reintroduce whatever it is that we know we need. And I feel like when we hear the hashtag protect black women, I could have, I told the White House literally today, I don't have to be on the phone trying to establish a relationship with you because I'm paid media. I get paid by labels, movie houses, small black brands, you know, I get paid to do what I do. but I do believe in the ideal that a black woman could become vice president or a black man could be president or I believe that Kamala could be great. And I want to help bring us to the table to tell you where we feel like there's some people falling short in the administration. And then where the needs are? And then from you, where are the resources? And then for you, what are the issues that are important to you?

Because if not in two years, what we're going to do? Put Trump back in office and be here and spin it for you. But, okay, yeah. You know what? Jason, I'll tell you something. That roundtable that you're talking about, let's do it. Yeah, let's do it.

Because I really do think that a lot of these things, you know, the older I get and the more serious this gets, like a lot of these things, they haunt me. Like, they actually keep me up at night when I think about kids that don't have a safe world to live in to this degree from the public safety people that they entrust. Jason. Yeah.

And it's getting black people to understand that our issues are not just us getting killed by police because that's one. But like when I go to New York and people go, man, the weather's beautiful during the wintertime. That's global warming, baby. There ain't no snow on the ground. You know what I mean? Yeah. By the way, I'm going to say something. I'm going to let people figure it out.

I appreciate you for that thing that you did when I was going through that thing and that thing had happened. You know what I'm talking about. Yeah. let people figure it out. All right. Okay. That's Jason Lee. Watch the show on Revolt. Jason helped me when everybody thought I did something I didn't do. I got it.

I think everybody else will too. All right. That's Jason Lee. Watch the show on Revolt. We will have you back, brother. Love him or hate him. He has his point of view and he can back up everything that he says. We appreciate you for joining us on how to learn it. Well, I couldn't back up the queen. being dead. But you can laugh about it now. After you driven that life preserver, yeah, I can't.

All right, brother. Appreciate you. We'll see you again. That's a great conversation. Thank you for being here. All right, you guys, take the in-caps off, but do not stop learning. No mailback today. Okay. Okay, no melbourne. We'll do mailbag on Monday. We'll do mailbag on Monday. We'll do mailbag on Monday. Do we have time for mailbag or now? You and I both have somewhere to be Monday. So that's not just me. It's not just me.

Okay. Take the thing caps off, but do not stop learning. Thank you for Jason Lee for joining us today on higher learning. I am Van Lake and Jr. I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Bye, guys.