Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Is Hip-Hop Still Fun? Plus the DNC’s Autopsy Report and “Dr.” Cheyenne Bryant’s Alleged Title

Episode Date: May 22, 2026

Van and Rachel react to the results of this week’s primary races and the release of the DNC Autopsy report of the 2024 election. Plus Chelsea Handler on racist jokes, Cheyenne Bryant’s doctoral backlash, and Michelle Obama on MAGA.  (0:00) Intro (0:18) Is Hip-Hop still fun? (15:47) Primary election reactions (28:10) The DNC’s 2024 election autopsy (51:04) Chelsea Handler, race and roasts (1:10:13) “Dr.” Cheyenne Bryant (1:29:08) Michelle Obama on the MAGA movement (1:52:42) Trump’s J6 “slush fund” Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Jade Whaley Social Producer: Bernard Moore Video Supervision: Chris Thomas and Jacob Cornett  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is that? Color is on, is Ivan Lathin Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. Before we get into the show, I want to ask you a question. Is hip-hop fun anymore? I'm going to assume that you're basing this off of the Drake conversation. I think, okay, so it can be, yes.

But when we litigated, which we were totally expecting to do, the moment Iceman came out, we knew we were going to do. this, it takes the fun out of it. Like, you can't just enjoy the music to enjoy it, but also argue that dropping three albums at one time does not make me want to sit back and enjoy the music. It feels like a task. It's too much. Sensory overload. But yeah, like, okay, I'm assuming your answer is no. When is the last time you enjoyed hip hop? I thought that the beef was fun. The beef was fun. The beef was fun. I guess what I'm saying is, It felt like fun at the time,

but I don't know if it was fun. There's something different than fun when mess is involved. It might have been thrilling. Oh, good word. Might have been exciting, but I don't know if fun. Fun used to be like, I don't know, fun was when shit dropped in the 2010s when it dropped and everybody was having fucking.

Like when, remember when 50 and Kanye? went against each other. Fun. That was a fun. That was a fun thing. Sick-o-mole was fun. Like, that song being everywhere and everybody going crazy, everyone coming together, loving a record.

Sick-o-mole was fun. Like, damn was fun. But the beef was fun. And I'll tell you. I don't know if the beef was fun in the way that I'm using fun. I mean, for me. And I'll tell you why. Why?

I remember being out and about when a new song drop and the way people would react I remember I was at somebody's birthday party and we were at a house and it was like oh my god he just Kendrick just dropped euphoria and the way people were rushing to turn on the TV and everybody gathered around to just listen that was fun that was fun and then it was like will Drake respond won't he dissecting everything like the the anniversary of the beef was a few weeks ago and I kept singing on social media that all these compilations of people reacting to hearing not like us for the first time. And it made me feel again what I felt like two years ago. It was the excitement of,

oh my gosh, he came out with this so quickly. Oh my gosh, he said this. Oh, my gosh. It was there. And I'll end the pop out, which I still will always give you credit. Thank you, Van, for getting me and Kalika tickets without hesitation. And that was a moment that I will always change. And that excitement, there was excitement surrounding that too. All right. So I wish I had better words sometimes. So I get what you're saying. There was a lot of energy.

There was a lot of excitement. There were a lot of thrills. It was fun. But I guess what I'm talking about when I'm saying fun is this good feeling that the music somehow is providing this sonic cathartial. that we are all together in enjoyment of. And there used to be, it feels like hip hop used to have that more so

than it does now. It feels like now, just like everything else, our fun is in the fight. And it seems like before our fun used to be in the celebration, that this music, the purpose of this music, there's always been competition in hip hop, always been competition. I think the fact that there's so much competition in hip hop is probably a reason why things have gotten to the way that they are.

I don't know if hip hop, because it's so competitive, is conducive to artists having long runs. They used to talk about hip hop in the fact that you only got five years, You only got three years. You only got six years. I think that was probably healthy. It was probably healthy, not for the artists individually, but it was probably healthy for hip-hop culture,

it's probably healthy for rap culture, particularly mainstream rap culture, because it's kind of like the NBA. There starts to be diminishing returns if a team is on top for 10 years straight. There starts to be diminishing returns in football if a team is on top for 9, 10, 11 years straight. Now, because things are so competitive, that chokes off new blood.

It changes the media ecosystem rather than having a conversation about music. We're having dick riding competitions or hating competitions. We're not talking about it in good faith anymore. It's like if you wanted a good faith assessment of Drake's album, like, where would you go? Half the people are on his nuts. The other half are outright hating. Who is the last bashing of people that just listen to something and go, let me help you contextualize it.

And I feel like all of this is kind of a contagion that's just not making it as much fun as it used to be. Can I ask you this? Is it not as fun for you because you're not like a super fan of anybody right now that's putting out? Could it be that? And the reason I ask you that is because after the whole beef and after the pop out,

I, despite the other conversations that we've had recently, I am a Tyler the Creator fan. And when Chromacopia dropped, which was also 2024, it had been three years since an album, it dropped, and then Camp Flognog was right there. That was so exciting if you were a fan. You not only did you just get this music, now you get to see him perform it. And like there was so much, if you're a fan of that, of him, so much excitement around that. And I remember, like, I mean, you know, we joked. I was probably like the oldest person that Camp Flok Nognev.

I was a fan of it and I was really, really excited to not just I had just listened to it and now I get to experience it. So I guess that's why I say is it because maybe there's not somebody that you're so into like that that you're anticipating the album or excited when they drop something by surprise

because I just experienced fun two years ago with that. I mean he dropped another album but that just like the turnaround of it from the concert from the drop to the concert it was a really fun time for me as a fan. Also I'm old. Let's face it. I'm older.

I'm old. I'm the first, maybe the second generation of like hip hop fans. So when I start listening to rap, it's because I'm on a bus and like the bus, this was a bus that like was going to Ms. Diggs's house in Dallas. Like we lived in Dallas for a little while.

Okay. Yes, I remember. And we're going to Ms. Diggs's house in Dallas. Ms. Diggs used to keep kids. so you would get on it wasn't really a bus it was like a van so you would leave TL Marcellus elementary school

you went to Marcellus yeah okay yeah you would leave that boy the Texas indoctrination was something else by the way I just remember being a young kid and having to sing we talked about this deep in the heart of Texas all the time having to like do a program

sorry I had night and my dad hated that shit my dad would be like hey you from the buy you. All right. It's like, hey, you brought me here.

I'm here. So, T. Marcella, so I remember leaving that we get, we get on the bus, go to Miss Diggs house

and somebody in the back of the bus. Nobody can rap quite like I can't. I take a muscle bound man. I'm like, oh shit, what the fuck is going on? And from then on, rap was in my life.

And I was having fun with rap. Rap was fun, man. Don't matter who you liked or who you didn't like. Like, MC Hammer was fun. Eric B. And Raq Kim was fun. Rob Bass was fun. Me and my man,

Drico. Used to be around there doing raw bass, you know, doing a whole, it was all, it was fun. It was a lot of fun. And then the West Coast guys came out and it was dangerous, but it was still a lot of fun. It was a lot of joy, a lot of joy. And maybe joy is the term that I'm looking for. Okay. Maybe it's joy.

And hip hop has been a joyous part of my life since then. DMX, even that, very hardcore music, everything that was coming out of Yonkers, all of that stuff. It was still animating. and I was still, I was like, and now it just seems like, we get this shit and get it out there and it's a fucking drag, man.

Everybody mad. Everybody talking their shit. Everybody's so wound up. We try to even have cultural conversations based around it and then pitch forth coming out. Everybody's like, like, they're gagging on the day.

It's like, to me, it is, to me, it's like, this shit is just not, And I'm older. So maybe I'm looking for. You're older and it's social media, right? We didn't have all of that.

So like you listen to it and you talk about it. You hear it on the radio. You talk about it with your friends and your friend group. Like it's not as, it's not litigated because you're not as connected all the same way. But age, I think, has a big thing to do with it. Z Corner. Do you all get excited about music? Well, hip hop.

Yeah, absolutely. I always get excited when. What's the last album you got excited over? I mean, I was excited for Iceman. Drake you, I'm Drake Jay, you ripped it apart I did but that's because I was genuinely like

I was let down I was but I was genuinely excited for it Now I'm also a Tyler fan So Chromacopia was probably I was a I went to the I went to that listening party that he had at so fine

It was so fun I feel like I fuck with Tyler I love Tyler I think Tyler is legitimately a visionary but I think the visual stylings of all of that stuff kind of outweigh the musical impact that it has a lot of it.

Oh, he's just not one of us. He's just not a fan. He's been for real. I mean, I think that, I think right now that Tyler the Creator has a 50-year career ahead of him, well, he's 30, 40, whatever.

I hope he lives to be 190 years old as like a music video director and all of that stuff like that. But like, just about records, just about like songs. I don't know how many like just records and songs are going to go crazy with Tyler to create.

that are going to like a hold a whole summer down or something like that. Is that a thing? Am I wrong about that? I mean, I do think Chromacopia had that effect for sure. Y'all like that. Yeah. Yeah. Not necessarily, but I honestly, I feel like I still get like genuinely excited about music.

It's just I think now there's less of a purity to hip hop. I think that there was before and a more like rootedness. I don't even know how to explain it, but I do think social media plays a big part in that, you know?

I will directly critique one talking point that has come out in the last five or six years. The idea that the party had to stop, that the party had to die. Right? You've heard that like, hey, the party got to end. No more parties in L.A., all of that stuff like that. man hip hop needs the party like we need the party hey the vibes are down right now the vibes are down right now this summer we need to keep our eyes on what's happening all over this world and in this country but this summer these sisters need to be out here and they need to be able to shake some ass and have some fun and release the trauma that's in their hips and I need to be able to drink these new flavors of Hennessy there that are coming out that had me very excited for the summer by the way that's how old I am I'm very excited for people Teach T fucking Hennessy. And I need to be out in places where I can be relaxed and talk to people and watch people

have a great fucking time. But I really think that's already happening. This is what we're doing. I was at everyday people last weekend. See, everyday people. I was just going to say. I mean, June 14th is the next everyday people. It was so funny.

I say we get a higher learning sponsor table. When I went last time, I had a blast. We get a sponsor table and you will get every single thing you just said you wanted at everyday people. We're going. We're going. Van's going to buy us the table. We're going to go.

I'm very excited. June 14. But I also want, you know, and this is why. And we're going to come in Monday. Shout out to Mouse Jones. Shout out to Mouse Jones because he does trap karaoke. So people are out there having a good time. I want people to know that.

That that's very important that we say that. That people are out there having a good time. But a lot of these conversations that we're having around the music, we've always had them. The same conversation that people are having about Iceman, as it relates to drink. When Blueprint 2 came out, I remember, like, arguing with my friends, we didn't have a lot of the same language that we used now. We weren't calling things cope and whatever.

But Jay came out like, Can't You See the These Fake, the rapper version of TDJ's prophes on all his CDs and tapes. Jay was talking about how I put dollars on mine, asked Columbine when the Twin Towers dropped, who was the first in line. And we were listening to that. We were like, is Jay Zee like trying to convince us that he's a good guy because Nas shredding apart on Ether and said, it was a fake.

Like, is Jay-Z? Are these therapy bars? Is this what happened? Like, what's going on? But Blueprint 2 had so much other stuff on it. They're like, we said that for a second. And then we moved on to the shit that we liked about the motherfucking album. And now it seems like we are just completely stuck in these many cultural wars,

intra-community cultural wars, around this stuff that at the end of the day is supposed to make us feel good. I'm not saying that any of these narratives, I know every conversation is the most fucking important conversation. And we got to talk about cultural authenticity and purity. And I'm one of the worst offenders of that. I understand it. But God damn it, man.

If I don't just want to listen to some shit and chill. Yeah. I'm going to be listening to the hot boys. Get it how you live for the rest of my life. If they don't change it up, I don't know. I just thought about it, man. Like for somehow, me and one of my homeboys just was talking about the summer of 2015 in LA. And it just made us sad because, like, we were, it was.

going crazy. Whatever. Man, I wasn't here. Now it's like, everybody. Everyday. Every day. Nobody is really giving it.

No one is up. That commercial came out. The Drake, Kevin Durant commercial. I watched the commercial. That's funny. It's funny. It's a funny commercial.

But like I have a lot of people in my life that are staunchly on different sides of this. It's like, oh, this is the problem with everything. It's a fucking joke. The joke. is that this is the way people are and this is the way things are. Normalizing glazing is crazy

because glazing means nigga basically the nut in your face. So like that is that's a choice but I thought the shit was funny man. I don't know. But now we have to get to real shit. This is the shit that we should be arguing about.

Not no motherfucking hip hop records. Okay? Now this is the shit that we should be arguing about. Donnie? Primaries. Let's talk about him. Trump got more wins in Republican primaries on Tuesday.

most notably Kentucky, where Representative Tom Massey was defeated by Trump endorsed candidate L. Gowleran. Six states voted with results looking skewed to the Republican Party voters in Alabama, Georgia, Idaho, Kentucky, Oregon, and Pennsylvania chose their party nominees, setting the stage for November matchups for Senate governor and key house seats. Where were you guys as takeaways from this week's primaries? Did you think it was going to be any different? I think, let me say this. I think because we're constantly, you watch news, politics, all that, and they're constantly talking about how low Trump's approval rating is. So I think that there were some people who might have thought that the primaries may have gone a little different.

But those approval ratings include everybody, right? So the Republicans are still high on Trump. And that's evident in these primaries. I don't think that this speaks to how the midterms are necessarily going to go. because you don't know how independent voters and swing voters are going to be. But the Republicans are still down for Trump. They're still loyal to Trump, no matter what has happened,

how much of a deficit the country's in, how long we've been in this war that seems to not have any end in sight, the economy going to shit, inflation up. It doesn't matter, Republicans are still down for Trump. That's all the primaries really said to me. And if you go against him, people will vote against you. That's really what it showed to me. What's Trump's number, his approval rating right now?

It's like 30-something? 37%. It's an all-time low. 37%. But that's combining everybody. Well, here's the deal, though. Let's look at it. Let's broaden it.

Widened the aperture. So when you look at that 37%, for things to be as dysfunctional as they are right now because you're looking at basically three phases of dysfunction. You're looking at political dysfunction in D.C. You're looking at foreign policy dysfunction and you're looking at economic dysfunction. So in no way right now are we functional.

Every part of the government has scandal and corruption, be it flying in planes, slush funds, all of this stuff that we're going to get into. And then you have a major form of policy blunder in the Iran war right now that is, seeks to or threatens to make Iran a viable world power with their ability to choke off 20% of the world's energy or whatever. All of that, the 37% that still approve with Trump, they're ironclad. Ironclad. They're submitted. That's stone. I wonder how much lower that could

possibly go. When we say what percentage of MAGA ain't changing their minds and we wonder whether or not it's 50% of the country. We say all the time it's 50% of the country. We say half the country. We're actually wrong about that. It's probably more like 35% because there can be some erosion inside of the Republican intelligency as well. So that 35 to 37% are represented in the approval rating.

That's who we're talking about. Okay. Then in a primary, what type of person is going to be motivated to vote? And if you're Thomas Massey, particularly you were having that debate. His political future was oriented around the question of could he raise a rebellion in the Republican Party to beat the people who are not only not going to turn their backs on Trump, but are going to show up for him whenever he asks, are going to buy a phone, never get the fucking phone, are going to invest, like all of that stuff, invest their money into stuff,

never get their money. They have a religious belief in the president. and will respond to his call. And a primary, that's still going to win. Yeah. Like that is still going to win. So what Massey was up against was that, not only that, but a ridiculous funding push from A-PAC in the Israel lobby, right? Right.

So he was, but I don't even know if that is more important than the fact that there is this percentage of people. That's it. They're done. Their guy, what he says goes, they believe. that their version of America like who they are, what they are

is tied up in the ascension of Donald Trump. Yeah. And they will never not believe that. Yeah. I mean the man who beat Ed, whatever his last name is, who beat Massey literally said, I am there to serve Trump and I will do whatever Trump needs me to do.

Period. That got him in. Which is crazy because Massey is still super conservative. And there's like two three things that he's pushed back on. And that doesn't matter because it's all or nothing when it comes to that percentage of people and that base when it comes to voting for people who are wanting to serve Trump. That's it. Tom Massey did not serve him 100%. He served him 90%.

And he also had some really big breaks. And some of the really big breaks were obviously the Epstein stuff. And then... Epstein War deficit. Right. But those breaks are probably fundamental to Trump. Like so fundamental that they threaten his control over the party. If you're looking at this in terms of how it's going to play out in the midterms, I wouldn't take too much from it.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Right. So I personally wouldn't take too much from it. You know that these 37%, whatever it is, people are going to be here. But, and this is always kind of the inconvenient thing, you don't win a presidential election with those people. You win a presidential election with the people that you can add on top of that cemented. locked in going a long base. And Trump and the Republicans, the MAGA movement,

have been able to do that largely with an anti-immigration platform and with an economic platform. No, I agree with you completely. In Texas particularly, and that's why I say, like, you can't really, I agree with you, you can't just focus on the primaries. Crazy enough, Trump backed Ken Paxton, not because he's like ultramed. Maga and not John Corny, who John Corny, we know, pushed back a little bit, but then tried to

crawl back something Massey didn't do. Massey pushed back and stayed with it. There are people who tried to push back and then tried to say, okay, that's not working for me. Let me just try to like beg for Trump to forgive me and to work my way back into his good graces. Didn't work for John Corny. He ended up endorsing Kim Paxton. I think and hope that that's going to be a mistake. Kim Paxton is awful. He's been impeached. I mean, the Republican Senate turned it over in Texas. He has, his wife calls him a cheater. He's like anti-biblical, which is a big thing. Like, they're using that against him. He's not anti-biblical, but his adultery and his actions are being promoted as anti-religion, which is very big in Texas. So I think that even though

Trump supported or Kim Paxton is probably going to win the primary coming up in a couple of weeks in Texas with Trump's endorsement, I think that that's going to backfire, or at least I hope it is, in the midterms. So I think that's why it's not telling. because Kim, I think people are going to not vote in Texas. They'd rather not vote than vote for Kim Paxton when it comes to it. And that's why I think James Tilarico might win that race. Oh, you think Talarico's going to take it? I've been seeing him surging a little bit, even some of the prediction markets.

You guys love those. Even though John Cornyn has been deemed to Rino, I think that Kim Paxton is so controversial that that will motivate some people to just say, like, I don't want to vote at all. and that's why I think Tala Rico could pull it out. Tala Rico, according to, was it Paxon or Corman?

Well, yeah, they, mind you, the primary hasn't happened yet, but people are assuming with the endorsement of Trump now, which people were shocked by it. They thought he would endorse no one or Cornyn

that now Paxson will win. Well, I mean, they're taking aim at Tala Rico. The question is, you know, Tala Rico surges. The black maternal mortality, initiative he put forward.

Yeah. Can Talariko do two things? Number one, can he be Texas enough? Texas. We like our guns. We like our bathrooms for one gender. Get out of my bathroom. I'm from Texas.

Piu! Okay. Can he be Texas enough? And then can he, he don't have to put on some dashiki. he's not going to put on that's not going to help you're going to have to

I'm telling hey don't listen to her Tellerico you're going to have to elect your slide on Juneteen you got to come kiss the ring I'm telling you right now you got to come kiss the ring man you got to go to the AME church

in Houston and Dallas and what's his part like you got to I'm telling you right now right now bro cha cha-cha slide whatever you do he need to scout up

trade the truth Reach out to Trey the Truth. That's not a bad idea. Reach out to Trey the Truth. When's his day? When's that day? Trade the truth day? Yeah, Trey Day.

Go to Trey Day. Tala Rico, go to Tray Day. Do a T&T. Trey and Tala Rico. You got to do all of this. You got to pander a little bit, because you got the sisters hot. July 17th to July 21st.

Trade Day weekend. Tala Rico and Tray Day together. You got to go do it. He's got to do a lot of things. Yeah. You know how they go to, you know, sometimes I see white politicians and they'll go to a soul food restaurant and they'll try to peach cobbler and I see their eyes buck with the sugar. I see it affect them. And they go, oh, that's some good ass shit right there, my nigga.

That's what Talley Rico got to do. He got to drop so. He might need to go to a verse. That's not a bad idea. He definitely should go. This is so, it's so he's got to go down there and join with the people. And he also probably, probably needs to figure out a way. to, and I don't know how you do this,

but communicate with Jasmine Crockett in a way that makes people feel like, I know she'll be down. Yeah, I hope she goes down in campaigns with him. That has to happen. Yeah, it has to happen. I completely agree. I thought about that too.

I was thinking about that because I saw her campaigning for Bacera and I was like, for us to turn Texas, like, yeah, we all got to come together. Cassidy lost in Louisiana, and now he started to... He's like a coronin. To vote for things.

that he should have been voting for before. You know, here's the thing with Cassidy or any of these people. If your nuts have to get cut for you to find them, then you probably never had much nuts in the first place. If you can't find your nuts while they're still on your body, if somebody's got to cut them off and show them to you

for you to assert them, then it doesn't mean very much. Okay, I was just saying. Like all of these, all of these things that my dad and my uncles used to say, I try to- Is that one of them? Oh, my dad used to say, if your nuts got to get cut for you to find them, you never had no nuts in the first place.

He said, your nuts only matter when they're on your body. Somebody got to cut your nuts for you to find them, like meaning, yeah, I got to be beat down to everything. Now you want to, nah. You can't drop your nuts after somebody didn't cut them. They got to stay on. And that's kind of the way I look at that. But these primaries, I mean, if you're Donald Trump, you're going to...

Of course, this is a win. That's the headline for him. He's touting this as a win. And, I mean, it does show that he is still powerful within his party because the people that opposed him, the people who turned against him, he pushed them out. That makes him feel powerful. And he is in that in that way. But will that translate into the midterms?

Probably not. At least we hope not. All right. Breaking, Donnie, the DNC's 2024 autopsy came out obtained by CNN. Right. CNN is publishing a copy of the report, which goes into why the Democrats lost the 2024 presidential election is conducted at the request of Democratic National Committee chair Ken Martin. This version of the report, better known as the 2024 autopsy, was written by Democratic strategist Paul Rivera. The DNC withheld the report until presented with CNN's

reporting about a lot of his contents. You guys read and dug into this. What did you think about it? Read as much as we could. This is coming out right now. I read a lot of reports on it, tried to get into as much as I could. The document basically talks about a couple of different aspects of the failed bid to get the presidency back. It talks about the fact that it says, should I say, that Biden's White House failed to adequately promote Harris politically.

and I think that's prior to her deciding to run. They didn't position her as a power in the party. We had always heard that there was some dissatisfaction, should I say, dissatisfaction from the Harris team over the way they were being positioned inside of the administration. It also said that Democrats are too closely associated with identity politics, that that damages the party's brand. also said that Democrats should spend money earlier in election cycles. It said that on Trump, the campaign and its allies failed to remind voters of his incompetence

and it included an annotation calling the idea that Trump's negatives were baited in a major failure of analysis and reality. So it seems that according to the autopsy, the Democrats thought that they didn't have to do much work on Trump because Trump's identity was so well established that people would know. One more thing, and then we'll talk about some of the things that are missing from here. The report suggests that replacing Biden with Harris helped down-ballot Democrats, saying that Biden was so weak at the time that he was running that things would have been worse down-ballot if not for switching Biden out with Kamala Harris. It doesn't really go into Biden's decision to run again in the first place, which is ridiculous.

It does not extensively evaluate his support. for Israel, which I think is one of the main things that people would have wanted from this. Because the DNC's, that's significant, but because the DNC's internal findings, according to a source with knowledge of the report, concede that the Biden administration's support for Israel played a large role in Harris losing votes. I think I'm just reading some stuff here, but I think if I was to say that plainly, we all know that by the time it got deep into the race that, the genocide question in Israel and the freedom of the Palestinian people and their self-dignity, their self-determination, shall I say, the dignity and self-determination, that was a major thrown in the side to the Kamala Harris campaign.

Are you surprised by anything? I'm like reading it now as it's breaking news too. Are you surprised by anything that came out with this? I think, and I guess here's my other thing. I guess one, are you surprised at any? anything they said or did anything like stand out to you? And two, does this really do anything for the party? This reports out. It's telling you the failures of the party. Is it really going to resonate and be effective in any kind of way for the upcoming election? Huh. And can I tell

you why I ask that? Because I'm not surprised by any of the stuff that I'm reading. And again, like this is just breaking so I'm just like you know consuming this now but nothing is shocking to me and it's nothing that people at least since 2024 election have been saying messaging we we we we are too spread too thin like we need to be very clear on on what it is that we're saying focusing so much on trump you could almost say that the obsession that that maga has with making him their religious leader we're the other side was equally obsessed leading up about being anti him rather than actually listening to what people are saying they need, which is why they lost ground with some of these key groups because the focus or obsession, I could say, became so Trump's so bad

rather than you're not looking at what people are actually telling you that they need. And maybe they were, but there are just so many issues where it's just so simple with the Republicans. Why are you looking at me like that? I do not like the way. What? You were slashed over picking your beard like that. I'm like, what are you thinking?

No. I think that the question that you asked is profound. I really do. I think the question that you asked is, does it matter if you know what's wrong with you? And that's a question that we ask ourselves all the time. The reason why we encourage people to go to therapy, the reason why we encourage people to go on journeys of self-discovery,

is so that they can understand their trauma and what's not working for them. But there is an expectation that once people know that, that they act on it, that they don't take the therapy speak that they learn or the coping mechanisms that they learn and deepen their own dysfunction, there's a thought and an expectation that they want to be better. And so if we are handed a document, which by the way, in and of itself, is

incomplete, got all kinds of factual errors, spelling errors, all of this stuff, even the way they put this document out denotes deep dysfunction in the Democratic Party, right? But let's put all of that to the side.

If we are handed a document that tells a party what's wrong with them or what they did wrong and they don't care what are we saying about them we're saying that they're okay being wrong that wrong is working for them for whatever reason then the question that you would have to ask yourself is why because the question of why right is not being done is an easy one the question of why wrong being done still works is fundamental to understanding a disfinding a disfutable functional society.

And I'm not gleaning all of that from this document. I'm saying if we all know the things that would be in a document like this and we know the things that are not in a document like this, being those things relating to Israel or relating to other things that they don't want to talk about, right? Then why should we expect the Democrats to be better? if we know that they know, they know that we know, and nothing is changing, then aren't we being stupid? Well, let's make matters worse. This creation of this autopsy, it's not even the final product.

That's what your DNC chair is saying. It says that there are blank sections, it's disorganized, and it fails to cite and source the things that it is saying led to the the loss of the 2024 election. So why is it put out? Well, it's put out because there was a tremendous amount of pressure to have it put out.

But is that not problematic? So let's, so because, but that's what I'm saying, to your point even more so, right? Why are we rushing something out with pressure that we don't even know if what it's saying is true because it's not properly sourced and research? and they didn't conduct interviews or supporting data for the assertions that are made within.

There's 200 pages. Sections are blank. So are we not just repeating the same thing? We're putting it out for the, you're pressuring people to put it out for what reason? Well, the reason why it was- That's not what the public is necessarily asking for. I don't want you to rush it.

So what's the point of this if it's not properly done? Well, number one, it should have been done properly a long time ago. Number two, there are a lot of people who are fucking scared. And there's a lot of dysfunction that they have witnessed. When we talked about some of Trump's domestic failings, we forgot about ICE, we forgot about government shutdowns. We are forgetting about a lot of this body blows that we have to take it for a while just because this hip hop music is not allowing us to have any escape. It's fun anymore. All right.

But anyway. And so I think people won an accounting of how we got here. And part of that accounting is in how the Democrats lost. But that's what I was saying. People want that, right? And we should. And if they're scared because they want to know how we lost, are you not even more scared that they just threw something out there just to give it to you for the sake of giving you?

And you still aren't telling us exactly why we lost? This is so problematic. Can I ask you a question now? Yes. What if the fact that you believe in the Democrats in the first place is the reason why you're here? that's that okay look so everybody about to get mad uh fuck it i see the tictox by the way i appreciate like i see them i see the tictops i see all the ticot's i see all the talk i see people mad that i endorse butch wear people upset i see it all and by the way i think it's fucking fair i think

it's fair i think it's fair right now for people who are afraid to ask questions about where they're going to get protection so if you're mad at you're mad at you're mad at you're that I am moving to the left and you think that there is no community or synergy in your protection with my worldview, I think the questions that you are asking are completely fair. And I would love to have those conversations. But when I look at something like this and we're having a conversation that we are, right, what I think is they can't even tell people with honesty, effectiveness, honesty or effectiveness.

I always look for that third word that fucks me up. They can't tell people with honesty or effectiveness why they lost. They don't seem to be interested in having a actual conversation about the deficiencies of the party. So maybe it's a belief in them in the first place that I've put you in this position. And so that frustrates me when I'm trying to have a conversation that adequately exists.

examines the Democrats, not as the group that stands on the heel with swords in opposition to what Donald Trump is doing, not the watchers of the gate of democracy, the white knights of bodily autonomy. I'm talking about effectiveness of a political machine. I'm talking about what fucking actually happened, right? Not about a van. No, no, I understand. I'm from Louisiana. They're redrawing my state painting it red. That red to me is blood.

The red that my state is being painted. Jerrymandered, that's blood to me. When I see that, I see blood spilled on that soil by enslaved people. I see blood spilled on that soil by people that marched so they can get up and go get their fucking vote and it pisses me to fuck off, right? I get mad too. I understand it. But I'm wondering.

I think everybody should be wondering if there's another option. besides putting our faith to stop that in a political movement that seems irreparably broken. Yeah, it feels that way. I think that what you pose is correct. I think that's why you have to keep not accepting what you're being told and keep pushing for what it is that you actually want and need. And if that pushes you to the left, if that makes you vote for someone, who isn't on the ticket and you have to write it in, if that makes you just say,

hey, I'm going to constantly be demanding from the Democrat, you know, who runs my area or whatever it may be, demand that they change and do something different, or I will take my vote somewhere, whatever it may be. I just think that, yeah,

like, we should be questioning these things. We shouldn't just take what we're giving, but they're giving us. And I don't think we are. I don't think we are at this point. Well, I don't think you are. but my thing is the way I look at it is

the very least you could do is kick their ass till they get it right but that to me doesn't seem like what a large portion of the center Democratic establishment wants what they want is a version

of what Trump has what they want is a version to where like Democrats fall in love Republicans fall in line they love that they want you to fall in line they want you to fall in line

They want you to want the best, but accept the middle or maybe even the worst. They want you to be like, hey, you know what, I'll settle for 5% freedom because 5% freedom is better than what the other side is offering. It's an odd thing because the moment that you start interrogating or having conversations about the political ideas that you're getting from the established left of this country, which is the Democratic Party, all you get from really their consternation. constituency is razors. You don't get any good faith conversation. A good faith conversation

that you would think you would get with people who are more politically, I guess, curious, the ones who don't believe in just choking off

people's votes or taking their rights away, you would think that you would be able to have a conversation with them about what freedom actually is and how,

but increasingly, probably because of fear. A hundred 100% probably because of fear, probably because of what they're seeing. Increasingly, they're just saying, and I get it, I just want this political experiment done. Yeah. I want MAGA done. They do.

And I get it. And I understand that. If that means Gavin Newsome, if that means Gavin Newsome, if that means whomever, if that means electing a billionaire. Yeah. I mean, and you see it happening right now for the people who promoted Jill Stein. You see the conversation happening right now. I mean, how many times are you seeing people's name like a Mark Lamont? Hill thrown out there.

Who are the other names we're seeing out there? A lot of them. Oh, you don't want to name them? I'm not throwing anybody under the bus for them to get more hate. No, it's not throwing anybody under the bus for they, like an Eddie Glylew Jr. Like they're not, it's not throwing them under the bus. These people, it's out there. These people stood in it.

They voted for what they believed in. I'm not throwing it in their face. I'm just saying to your point of fear of, of, well, I don't want to happen again what happened. We split the vote. I just got to make sure that whatever I do, I'm voting to get that out and we'll deal with the rest later.

I understand why people say that. Sometimes I feel that way. I am so scared of having another four, eight years of what we've had when we know that already in two years what's been done, it would take at the very least like 30 years and an impact court to even make changes. Like the damage is done. So and the loss of like it's, which is what's so crazy, you know, Trump obviously got into

office saying you can't trust the government and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And there's so much corruption and I'm going to do all these things, you know, the whole populism message. And that's exactly what he's doing now. So I also say that to say, I think there is a fear of there's just so much corruption. We don't trust anything right now. So I get why people want to vote for the establishment. I really, really do.

So I don't fault them from it because I have the same fear that you have. I really do. Well, look, this is what I will say. But I'm still not voting for Bessar. Hold on, this is what I'll say. I actually do agree with you in that regard. I do agree with you.

I think it's fair when I'm talking to my super lefty friends and Mark Lamont Hill is one of them. When I'm talking to them, I think it's fair to ask questions that make them uncomfortable. Like, for example, ask the question is, do you feel like if you wouldn't have stumped for Jill Stein or or Butchware, whomever it is, do you think that, and don't say it broadly, answer the question specifically, do you think that Renee Good would be alive?

Like, I mean, think about that because legitimately, when we think about the election of Donald Trump, we, and I think this is part of the plan. When we think about the election of Donald Trump, we think about it in terms of numbers, which everything that we get now are numbers. And as our brains become more addicted to digital things, numbers actually become a little bit less. Like, for example, less important. For example, somebody comes out and they say, take it back to the Drake thing. They go, Drake had 150 billion streams and all that. What does that really mean?

Right. There used to be a different experience that we would put to music consumption. So somebody had to go out and buy a CD. You have to buy a CD. you have to take the rapping off of the CD you have to open the CD you have to read the credits of the CD you have to have almost an experience with it. Yeah you do. So

having experience, when they said that a million people did that in one week you would be like shit a million people went out and just did that same thing like they gave a little something up to experience this music they had to drive, they had to wait in traffic they had to go

wait in line a lot of times to get all of this stuff just felt different right felt different now you know that a stream Not that that's not impressive because it is impressive But a stream is just hitting play on a device that you already have It took you a half a second to do it Right, no effort And the reason why I'm saying that is because a lot of the numbers that we get

When we're talking about like political dysfunction I think they're starting to wash over us Because we're looking at them in the same way That we look at everything that pops up on this computer screen But when you're talking about the fact that somebody died and is gone forever Like 200 people killed in Iran Like school girls killed because of a decision that the president made.

Like people still getting bombed in Palestine. Like people still getting bombed in Palestine. The reason why that cut through is because the numbers of people getting bombed were alongside of pictures of emaciated babies and like people under and mothers crying. And there's a human experience to it. So I think it's fair to ask the question. Does your political project then give way to Donald Trump? and then Donald Trump does these things that all this carnage happens, right?

And people actually die and get thrown in jail and get shipped off to other countries and put jail. All that's fair. But I'll tell you what, though, if the response is, it's actually not me that did that, is actually the failure of the center of the party. It's the failure not of a couple of voices that said we should experiment voting less. to vote for humanistic principles and practices. Actually, it's the multi-billion dollar political industry that can't mount a sufficient challenge to someone

who is so historically unpopular, but yet keeps getting them when it matters most. I think that's a pretty robust answer to that question, although I do think that the question should be asked. I agree with you. I agree with you. And something else you just said before we move on, we'll stop talking about after this, I guess, but you said when you look at your computer,

whatever it is that you're looking at your phone, your device, and you see all these things pop up and it almost just becomes, you become desensitized to it. It's so much. And you said something earlier when you were talking about how so we, you mentioned ICE and what happened and how, like, I mean, that obviously was devastating and it had such tragic effects of it. And it's still happening, but so much stuff is happening that you almost move past that to focus on the next thing. We have to keep. You just said Renee good.

And it kind of like shook me a little bit because it's not because I forgot. It's just, wow, we've moved on to the next Trump thing. And even if Trump is distracting us with a slush fund, that means he's doing five other things over here. And somehow we, as we move forward to the midterms and to the next election, We have to keep these things front of mind. People have lost their lives, their livelihood, you know, like their well-being with life in general. Like they can't afford to exist within this country.

And so many things keep happening. And we just keep moving on to the next thing. And somehow, and I don't know how to do it, we just have to keep it all front of mind. Because we talk about this every day. And still when you said that, it like stopped me in my tracks. No, I think what you're saying is the way people feel. And I think all of these conversations are on the table and have to be on the table.

I think we should have them with a little bit more bravery. Yeah. And maybe, especially if we all want the same thing. This comes from my friends on the far left, right? And the people to the right of them and to the right of me inside of this coalition. We have to have these conversations a little bit more substantively and with a little bit more charity, at least with each other. at least with each other because if not, the whole thing is fucked.

And maybe we need to start having these private conversations so then maybe we can come together and fight the fight in a way that they are not aware of. This spring, denim gets a softer, lighter update. Introducing Old Navy's drapey denim wide leg, a new fit that moves with you. It's everything you want denim to feel like for summer. Easy, breathable, and effortlessly cool.

With a fit that creates natural movement and a wide leg that feels modern, not overwhelming. Plus, that signature, wait, for this price, moment. Old Navy's drapey denim wide leg. Or at least understand what our expectations are. I agree. All right, we're going to come back to politics, but let's take a break real quick and do something else. What do you want to do? I don't know.

Like, what else? Oh, should we do? Should we do? Because it's all politics today, guys. We got Jeff Bezos and Obama. Maybe we won't hit everything, but. Well, let's do, um, let's do Chelsea Handler. Let's do race.

Let's do race. Let's do race. Chelsea spoke to Dionne Cole on his podcast, Funny Knowing You, specifically. This thing went viral where she talked about the Kevin Hart roast and how certain jokes rep her the wrong way. And I knew they would be lazy because they do that for a living. And I, I knew enough about like Tony Hinchcliff and Shane and their backgrounds. I had girls' ex-girlfriends blowing up my DMs that had dated Shane

and were telling me stuff about him. So based on that, I was like, oh, these guys are pretty bad. So you had something on him that she was bummed. You could have... Tell us now. What shit, Shane? It's just everything we know that they're racist, that they're bigots, that they're sexist, you know,

that they think they're like invincible. It was ick. It was gross. There's not... I don't find those jokes to be funny. Junk's about lynching black people. or like it lynching is not if Joe is not it that's worse than rape like you're not joking about rape are you are you saying I'm going to go rape you you know you can't do that but you can say lynching like I don't know you know people like it's a roast you go for it I'm like you can go for it without being gross like I find that to be gross I found with them making fun of Cheryl

Underwood's like dead husband who committed suicide like a skin color you know she's fine with that. If she said she's fine with that, she's fine with that. I wasn't fine with that. Huh. Okay. First of all, okay, whatever. Because you know, it's, when we talked about it on the last, or right after the roast, I hadn't seen the full episode, but my opinion is still the same in that I think that, you know, we talked about, we at least played the Tony Hinchcliff, a segment of what he said. And I'm like, it's hard to say he, oh, it's.

it's just all in jest because there are many things that he does that are racist. Right. So for me, and you're like, you have a different, I'll let you speak for yourself, but you have a different take on it. For me, it is not a roast if you are disguising your racism within the roast. He's really not disguising it, but you're hiding it under the fact that, oh, well, this is just a roast. I am glad that Chelsea finally said it because there have been many of comedians that have come out, well, that have been against it that didn't participate. I loved what Michael Chea had to say. They didn't participate. And then there are the comedians that did participate who defended what happened at the roast. And I am glad to see that somebody who was up on that panel was

pretty much disgusted by the jokes coming from Tony and Shane. I have seen Shane be funny before. I actually did not think he did a good job, that good of a job hosting it. I thought the funniest thing he said was, this is black excellence. I'm the one who's a white guy's hosting a black man's roast. After that, it just felt she had, she hit the knell on the head for me when she said lazy. I think that, and I actually said this when I was watching it with someone, I was like, just the jokes about like your skin's dark and you're black and all, like, it just, it is lazy.

Like, you're a professional comedian. and these felt like your mama jokes almost to me. Like it just was so simple in what they were doing. And there was no regard for the fact that, you know, Kevin Hart is a black man and you're roasting him, but it's also like an honor to have it on this stage and in this way. And to me, Chelsea said exactly how I felt about the whole thing. And I was happy that somebody was bold enough to actually say it and not say,

oh, like a roast is different. Like this is what you do. Everything is off limits. I actually don't believe what's. some of those people are saying, I just think, or I don't think they believe it, is what I should say. You think Kevin Hart believes it? I think that some of that stuff bothered them. I can't say which joke, obviously, this is all an assumption, but some of it was so much and it was over and over and over again that I don't

know how some of it you didn't say. Like even when he was laughing, and then for, even when Cat Williams came out, because at the time we talked about, I hadn't seen Cat Williams, So Cat Williams came out. He kind of alluded to, what did he say? The first thing he was like, I'm the only one with the soul or something like this up here. He was alluding to what was going on, kind of staying true to himself in all of it. So for me, I just felt like people are putting the profession first because maybe they fear that, you know, it'll come back on them or it'll affect them professionally. But there is no way that black people on that stage were okay with everything that was being said.

Okay, so the cat point is interesting because cat descended in like a fly-ass alien then got the fuck up out of there. And he was even, do you remember you saw him running back and forth? Yeah. I was like, what did he do it? Yeah, after you got on stage, yeah, yeah. Yeah, a cat exists outside of that particular comedy matrix. It feels like, it feels like cats one of the guys that has this direct tether to the community.

I posted Ali Sadieke on. he had just funny What did he say? Well he goes on Kill Tony He goes on Kill Tony I didn't know that He goes on Kill Tony He says he has at least once

Interesting okay So look This is the deal I haven't really changed Any opinion that I have about this And the only reason why is because You're a comedian No no no that's not it

It's because like I'll give you an example Okay when Flagrant did the black women jokes in front of shits and giggles. Right, remember that? Yeah, spoke out about it. Right. And we talked about the fact that we're talking about stereotypes and all of that stuff

and we're getting into it and not stereotypes. We're degrading black women. We're making black women unsafe. I think that's always a conversation to have, particularly when those jokes are being made on a podcast like that in front of two black men who, who aren't comedians just to see how they respond to it, right? That was Flagrin's brand. So the way I looked at that,

if the way I am, I looked at that and like how are they going to respond to like that joke? Do you think you need to respond to that joke or would you just laugh along with it? Now, in this situation, I still am really conflicted about it for two reasons, even with the Chelsea Hanlon theme. Number one, she hasn't liked those guys,

particularly her and Shane. and the joke that Shane made about her right before she went up there was fucking brutal right? It was a brutal joke and it was so brutal that he really didn't have to say very much about it he just goes Chelsea Handler's sinus

I'm not saying that's good or bad and then he goes speaking of he said something else and he goes he said something about children he goes speaking of children with shrimp in their mouth he goes Chelsea Handler went a dinner with Jeffrey Epstein and like seven people.

And then he just lets that breathe. And then he goes, Woody Allen and Prince Andrew were there. Here's Chelsea Handler. And like that right there, he, like, that is just a devastating indictment of anything that she could possibly say that would seem righteous. And so before you even go up there, I wondered how it would feel. to go up there after, number one, someone had called you a Zionist and then connected you

to dead kids or, and then at the same time said, hey, this was somebody who went to a very intimate Jeffrey Epstein. That doesn't mean anything about Chelsea Handler, I suppose, but it is just a fucking nuclear bomb to drop on that stage like that. So part of what she's saying right there, particularly about Shane,

is because there's something between them. Like part of, like, she alluded to the fact that she, she, She did work on Shane and called Shane's girlfriends and stuff like that. I do not know Shane Gillis, have no relationship with Shane Gillis or any of that stuff. So I'm saying there's a part of that right there that's just like comedian versus... She said they reached out to her. Okay, fine, cool.

There's a part of that that's actually a very important distinction. There's a part of that that's just comedian versus comedian bullshit. Tony Hitchcliff doesn't tell jokes. Tony Hitchcliffe says racist shit in spaces where people, I guess, aren't expecting to hear it, like at the Trump rally and stuff like that. And just says, here's the worst thing I can fucking say. It's not going to be funny. But I am going there.

And people go, and I guess they laugh. I've never laughed at Tony Hitchcliff one time. I've never laughed at him. I've never laughed at Tony Hitchcliffe. Well, my friend's husband is a comedian and she's like, when Tony is on the ticket, he always bombs. Right. I've never laughed at him. Never laughed at him.

I think he's a creation of the Rogan's Fear, Mothership kind of Hodel. and kill Tony is something that like, you know, it features a lot of other comedians. But I will say is this, though, it's like, I get the way those jokes made me feel, the way jokes make me feel. But like, it's hard to have that conversation. It's hard to have the conversation about Tony Hitchcliff

and Shane Gillis or whoever else was up there and not have a conversation about the fact that this is how Kevin Hart wanted his rose. So help me understand. understand because this is, and I think that this is like really good for the audience too, because one, there's the picture of the writers. They wrote the stuff. But I'm also like, these are comedians.

Did they not write their jokes? I have a hard time thinking Chelsea Handler didn't write her jokes. Well, some of the- I'm sure you have a team. Well, there's also- And Nikki Glazer always makes it seem like she writes her jokes. There's also an article about the jokes that didn't get used. Yes.

So there are some jokes that at least somebody somewhere Kevin Hart, somebody else went, hey, I don't want these in the show. So help me, this is what I would like to know. You know, it's put on by Netflix, you know, man who runs Netflix, black wife. Tessorandos, yeah. So, yeah, sorry.

Yvonne's daughter. Yes, Nicole. Yeah. Names escape me at that moment. So help me understand. They pay people, because Kat said it, to come up there and roast. Kevin gets paid for it.

How much, because they're paying them, They're putting it on. How much say does Kevin have because he's getting paid to do this? Or is it just a Netflix production? Did Kevin pick those writers out? Was it like, I understand. I'm asking. I'm genuinely asking.

Does he say I want this comedian and this? Or does he say I get to pick these and then they get to fill in the rest? How much control does he actually have over this being a Netflix production and they're paying you like to roast you? Here's the answer. I have no idea. Okay, because I think that that plays into some of this. Because I don't want to put too much blame on somebody that you, well, no, I guess I could because you accepted, even if you had no part in it, you accepted it's, you accepted to do it knowing that you wouldn't know what would happen. Well, say, here's a deal, though.

I think the key word in this is blame or responsibility. Tell you why. Because if you use the term blame, then you're saying what happened was inappropriate and wrong and here is who. is to blame for it. If you're saying what happened was edgy and inappropriate, right? Not even inappropriate. I used inappropriate before. If you're saying what happened before was wrong, then you need somebody to blame.

If it was a cultural file, a cultural crime, then there has to be somebody to blame for the cultural crime. If you're saying that what happened was edgy or envelope pushing or whatever, then there's somebody who's responsible for it, who's responsible for the content that you have to be. to, that you had to endure. Those comedians that are coming out, Lil Rel spoke on it, Michael Chee spoke on it.

I think they have way more cachet to speak upon what's going on in their culture than any podcasters would, right? So if Michael Chea and Little Real Howlry are saying that, look, we're here, we make the jokes, we're a part of the people that push the envelope, we make the jokes,

and we're saying that some of this stuff is too far, then there's no way that that conversation is them policing their culture. I acquiesce to that completely and totally. I acquiesce to Chelsea to me is a little different being that I know that there's something happening between her, but if black comedians are looking at this and saying, hey, we don't want a comedic type of situation where we have to endure that. That's not what we're into. Then yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

That holds a tremendous amount of weight from me. then the question just goes back to like what is comedy because I could look and I love Michael Chee we've had Michael Chey on before I've been made uncomfortable with some of the news desk some of the joke swaps that happen on the news desk yeah when they swap like I've been made up but it's an uncomfortable laughter because it's funny right it's there are jokes that are being made that he makes yo say that are about black people being criminal that there was one and it was hysterical about the Popeye's fried chicken sandwich. That like black people were running out and committing all kind of crimes and then the punchline is because the Popeye's fried chicken sandwich was. Now, that joke is funny if everybody is in on the joke because there's a part of me that goes, shit, that's on Saturday Night Live. That's an away game, right? I'm not comparing them. I'm saying those guys get to make that distinction.

And what I did here, honestly, was enough. Nah, we ain't fucking with that from inside the black comedic community for me to be like, yeah. I feel you. Because for me, the way I looked at it at first was like, it's a roast. And up there, they're legitimately having a race to the bottom. That's what the roast is. The roast is a race to the bottom. The roast is how fucked up can we be?

Right. And so I look at that. They're talking about Pete's dad. and all, do you know how destroyed I would be if I was on Netflix? He looks uncomfortable. And somebody brought up the death of my father. I'm not signing up for that. Do you know how it just torn apart I would be?

But that, when I see something like- I wonder if he okayed it. Because did you hear Shane say, when Shane kept making jokes about Cheryl Underwood's husband committing suicide, he made it and people didn't know to laugh. And he goes, it's okay, guys. I asked Cheryl before if this was okay for me to do and she said yes. I wonder if they did that with Pete too.

I know they don't do that for everything but I think that that one was so dark because I kept saying they keep doing this. I wonder if Cheryl was prepped for this. Apparently she was. She talked about it that they went to a, that there was like a comedy brunch or something and people were coming up to her.

Yeah, it was enough. Isn't that Ted Sarando's house? Ted Sarando's house. She even actually said that Tony Hitchcliffe did this. Look this. About the death, not about the blackness. I'm not sure. But like she said,

And this is another deal. She said that when I listened to that, she said that the comedians that were going to make jokes about her came up to her and told her this thing and said that they were. And she said, hey, I'm going to do this, but just you can do that. But just know, I'm going to come back at you. I'm going to get back at you. I'm going to do all of that type of shit.

That she was, I'm going to give it to you all and all of that. Even with that, though, you wonder in that situation, does she feel like she can say, nah, that's too much? You know, or is that going against some kind of comedy code? Yeah, I think that there was a lot of that. To me, that was my biggest takeaway of what Chelsea was doing. I was sick of people acting like, I know a roast is different, but I was sick of people being like, there's no line with the roast. I think that there's a line, and I was really glad to actually hear somebody say it.

And when Dionne Cole asked her later in that interview, I don't know if that was in that clip or not, he was like, well, how does it make you feel that black people were laughing? She's like, I'm not here to tell black people what they can and can't laugh at. I'm telling you how I felt watching this. And I appreciated, I just appreciated somebody finally saying it because it was like, no. Well, I mean, look, look, my understanding of a roast still stands

in that I always thought that when you watch these roast, remember, it was the roast, it was a roast where, we talked about this where like Ted Denson showed up in Blackface. Yes. Like, you know what I mean? And that became a deal. This is a deal, though.

This is the deal. I think you know what else happened? Do you remember the lady from cold pizza, Dana Jacobson? Do you remember her? I got to see her face. She used to be on cold pizza before it became first take. She got in trouble because she was at a roast. And I think it was the roast of Mike Golick.

It was at Notre Dame or something like that. And she said like, fuck Jesus. Oh. Or something like that. I remember she got in trouble for that. A lot of these roasts are not televised. I think that's another different thing. Some of the roasts, the Friars Club rose back in the day.

whomever it was, they ended up putting out boxes of them later and stuff, somebody's stuff would go. But like, this roast wasn't for the comedy community. It was for millions and millions of people on Netflix. And there's just always going to be a certain contingent of people that's not going to want to hear jokes about fucking George Floyd, not going to want to hear jokes about Charlie Kurt, not going to want to hear jokes about, you know, dead people's relatives and stuff. Sure.

So I think two cultures kind of. combined but you know I don't know when I first heard I was like that's what they do but now I'm looking at it and I'm like ah you know what it seems as if maybe that's not what they do comedians are saying comedians are saying that's not what we do so it is what it is well Chelsea said it's lazy like there was a there's a way you can do it without going there yeah I wonder what that dinner was like okay Shane I was just joking okay Shane okay Shane no no no no no I can't really say too much, you know, about that.

I went to a couple parties. All right. Okay. Ooh, this is, we haven't never talked about this lady before. Is that what we're going? I mean, yeah. We got to get back to politics. We want to go, we have a choice between black women to cover.

We can cover Cheyenne Bryant or we can cover Michelle Obama. You got to choose, like, which one? Shine Bryant. Shan? Is it Shane? Shane, Brian, and Michelle Obama. Which black one? Well, you forgot her title. She's doctor.

She's Dr. She's Dr. She's Dr. Is she? I don't know. You, what do you say? You already didn't give her the doctor. So you're already indicting her already.

Is Dr. Cheyenne Bryant? She called herself a doctor. I call her a doctor. I apologize. That's sister, Dr. Cheyenne Bryant. I guess there's some controversy about whether or not

she's actually a doctor. Donnie, go ahead. Do Cheyenne. Dr. Cheyenne. Dr. And quote, Mark's media personality and self-help coach is facing growing scrutiny after admitting that she is not a licensed therapist despite publicly using the title doctor. These questions have popped up and she has done her best to answer them via several interviews. And I don't think she's been doing a good job of clearing this up.

But what do you guys think about her title or lack thereof? So I don't know as much about her as I think a lot of other people do. what do you need to know? Well, does she give her advice through a therapeutic lens? Yeah. Oh, she does? Okay.

Yeah. So it's like, so rather than say, hey, because we give relationship advice is always terrible, but rather than say, hey, this is what you should do, she says, in my clinical evaluation, this is what you should do. That's what she does. Is that what she does?

I don't know if she says clinical evaluation. But the thing is, is that, She's not like a doctor at Dre as like a nickname. Dr. Dre, maybe he thinks, maybe it's, I don't even know why he calls himself Dr. Dre, but like, whatever. She's, that's music. She is actually in a profession with the title doctor where doctor is used. And I would imagine that that title has opened doors for you or giving you more clients. Giving you an authority.

Yeah. And what made it worse is she goes on Breakfast Club. And they ask her about it. And she gives this reasoning that she went to a place where she pursued her doctoral studies. She says she refers to it as doctoral. What's that? It's not a word. It's not the right word.

It's my point. It's my point. Okay. So an indictment. She went to this university. It shut down. They got rid of everything. They said it went to a third party.

She goes to the third party. The third party says, well, we only keep it for two years. And they said, so she has nothing. And they said, we'll refund you. This is her story. We'll refund you your money back. But that means that we erase everything. Like you didn't take any classes, nothing.

I don't remember what she said she did after that. But people are upset because they argue that she's using the doctor title without a verified doctorate or a clinical license. So people have been asking her to show. it. Right. This has come out. She says there's more visibility. You see her everywhere. I just assumed if you're going to use the word doctor and you're within a profession where people do have that title, whether it's a doctor of psychology, a doctor of psychiatry, that there is some sort of, you've written a dissertation, you obtained your PhD and that is why you're calling yourself doctor. You're not like doctor of podcast or something like that. Like doctor.

pod or whatever you want to call it. And rather than just like addressing people's concerns who may have like sought advice from her, who maybe have like trusted her insight or her intellect because they believe that she has, you know, achieved a certain level of education in this area, you just write people off as like haters and they hating on you and all of this stuff, which again sounds like an indictment. Because to me, If you really respect the profession, then you would honor people's concerns. You wouldn't just write it off, right? Like, I'm a lawyer.

I'm technically a doctor myself. I'm a doctor of jurisprudence. Is that true? That is, I am a doctor of jurisprudence. And I would never be called Dr. Lindsay. But my point is, is I would be offended if someone maybe attended some classes but didn't go through what I went through and is using the same title as me simply because they say their life experience, speaking engagements, and television appearances translate to them to be deserving

of being titled, a doctor. There's a reason that she wants to be called a doctor and not a life coach. It gets you more clients, like I said. It gets you more jobs, more authority, more access. There's a status above it. Like the thing is, just call yourself a life coach. Because what I wish the Breakfast Club would have asked her was, okay, like, well, where's the printed degree? Right? You graduate from something.

You get a printed degree. There's a picture of her when she does some talks and she's got all these framed things behind her as her background. And it's been pointed out that there's no degree for that, for the doctorate. Right. behind her. The other thing I would have said for the Breakfast Club to ask is, what did you write your dissertation on? That's easy. You got to have a dissertation to get a PhD. What did you write yours on? I was on sports law review. I wrote a paper. I didn't publish it, but I can tell you

exactly what it was called. It was called the death of Jerry McGuire. And I wrote it about these sports conglomerates and how the talent gets lost within these big agencies. I can remember. I can that because it happened. And I think that that's the big, it's just, honestly, Cheyenne, it's ridiculous. Like you're looking extremely ridiculous right now and it's very

telling the fact that people are asking you, you did it, you did the work, people are asking you to produce it and you're getting offended by it. You're being very defensive at the fact that people are asking a very logical question, which is simply you have this title, how did you get it?

okay well what did you do this on what it's just at this point I think she should just hire like crisis PR or something and just just label herself as a life coach or make a joke out of it and just be like I'm doctor quotations Cheyenne Bryant like I don't I don't know where to go from here but it's coming off the wrong way and I think and to label it as people hating on you for whatever reason it's not the answer I think that people feel misled And I think that that's fair for them to feel that way. And you had a lot of credibility. People respected your opinions and what it is that you had to say.

Had viral moments, funny moments. I just think that the way you're going about it, it's not good. Because now people, I see her now and I see doctor in quotations. I do. You have more problems with the response to the criticism than anything else. Yeah. you are a public figure and you present yourself as a licensed doctor. You are giving advice.

And I don't know if I'm assuming it's psychology, but you're giving advice. She's not writing prescriptions. If she's psychiatr, she could be writing prescriptions. So I'm assuming it's psychology, right? Like our therapist is a psychologist. I'm sure he would be offended if somebody was slinging around the doctor title for fun. You don't have any respect for the profession

if you just like toying with this title. It's more than a title. It's something that's earned. And it feels and it seems like you did not. And if you did, that's why I say, it's looking ridiculous. If you did, just do it. If somebody challenged me being a lawyer

because they're like you say shitty stuff on here about it doesn't seem like you practice law, I will pull out my law degree. I would show you my bar number. Yeah. And I would be like, I pass the bar. This is it. And yeah, maybe my advice does what I'm saying sucks too.

I'm a bad one. So a couple of things I don't get. That's all very well said. A couple of things I don't get. Number one, I don't get, this is what makes me think she's a doctor of some sort. Oh. This is what makes me think she's a doctor. How are you going to get away with it?

Well, she's not. No, just listen. There's no way to get away with it. Right. There's no way. You've sought success, right? You've sought success as a doctor. Eventually, somebody is going to ask the question about whether or not you are a doctor.

It is an odd thing to do, right? It's an odd thing to do that would, honestly, to me, you have to be fucking crazy. They'd have to be like some kind of psychosis there because, like, if, She is saying I'm a doctor and she's going, not just doing work in the community. It's not like she was at the Leo Butler Community Center over in Baton Rouge taking clients where nobody's going to, it's going to be on WBRZ. She is talking to Cam Newton and talking to Nick Cannon and talking to Joe and them and talking to, she is going on some of the biggest platforms around and giving advice and undergirding that advice in the fact that she has some kind of clinical expertise. eventually somebody would have asked where did you get your shit from what kind of doctor you are even if they weren't trying to indict her they would just be curious about her background which to

me I just think if in my most charitable she got to be a doctor somewhere right she's got to be some kind of doctor she's gotten away with it well she has said literally it is in our rundown her push back against the backlash. This is what she said. Her impact speaking career and work with high profile figures like Nick Cannon, Cam Newton and Shannon Sharp, validate her credibility more than the public opinion does. Well, I mean, we'll see how far that goes. I'll tell you what I'm doing right now, though. I'm doing something that I do a lot on this podcast, by the way.

I'm standing up for black women. I would like Cheyenne Bryant to know that there is one black man in the world that believes that she's a doctor because she's a new being queen, a black woman. She's a doctor of the universe and in the sands of the Euphrates and the rivers of the Nile

and the Serengeti. She's a doctor of, she walks with pearls drip. Oh, not pearls. She's a doctor She's like she's a She's a doctor of the original people in his world The African people It's a new being queen

A sister And so she is I'm not I'm not gonna be here Tearing a black woman down Because she can't produce a degree I think She's done something more than degrees She's given us degrees

Of healing those are the degrees that matter to me, Rach. So you can sit over there with your doctor jurisprudence bar number. You sound like her. Like you can do all of that. You can do all of that. I know who knows the Cheyenne files, the shy hive. Can I tell you something?

Yeah. You're a fool. Wait, I want to be clear about something. I want to be clear. I want to be clear. I think that she gives says good things. This is in no way taking away from her advice. You don't have to have a doctorate to give good advice, to be a therapist, to be a life coach.

That's not taking away from what she does. But it is still, it is wrong for her to use a title that it does. doesn't look like that she's earned. And that's where my criticism lies. But I do feel like it is an indictment. It's a characteristic. If all of this, which points, seems to be true, it is telling of who you are.

That's all I'll say. So this is the way you get, just so you guys know, you get a PhD to, it depends on a degree, and it's a couple different paths for a therapist to be called doctor. PhD in psychology, research focus, dissertation required fully earns the doctor title. A doctor of psychology,

clinically focused version of the same thing, also a legitimate doctor. A doctor of education, which is what Dr. Ruth had. So Dr. Ruth had a doctor of education in sociology. She didn't have any specific doctoral

expertise in like... You think in medicine? No, Dr. Ruth. Oh, yeah, but education, like you said. Dr. Education, but she was also a sex person, so she didn't have like a, she had studied that stuff,

but that wasn't where the doctor came from a Dr. Ruth. Yeah. And then like a PhD in counseling or social work, which is less common, but more legitimate, takes about four to seven years.

And I think that's the other thing. What was her special? Like, what did she study? Like, what does she specialize in? We still, I feel like these are things we don't know. And it's really that simple. As a person who has a doctorate.

Wow. It's really that simple. No, no, no. you gave her the pearls. Look, okay, so I'll say this. We get out this now. There's a specific issue with this as it relates to black people. Just everybody.

Black people are looking for places to feel safe. Black women, particularly, are looking for places to feel safe, right? And even though I don't think that we should, we still put a lot of safety in what people have earned, right? So if you get advice from all over the place, you can go to your barbershop or your beauty shop and get all types of advice on what you should do, how you should act, right? There's one thing that's always happened to black people is people telling them what they should do. This is how you should vote. This is how you should move.

This is where you should go. This is where you should live. So people start searching out for people who either have the life experience, which is where I'm from, was the thing that was actually paramount. or the educational credentials to back up what the fuck they're telling you you need to do. And if you have gone on the internet for two or three years and you are telling people about their relationships and their marriages and things like that, and these are black ladies primarily who are looking out into their community and trying to figure out how they're going to find love, where they're going to find love, why they feel so pool to find love, and all of that stuff and relationship advice, then they are going to actually,

I think a lot of people, male and female, are going to find safety in the fact that you've done the requisite work to position yourself in this way. So if Dr. Cheyenne Bryant was waking up going, what the fuck are they kicking my ass for? I feel like all my advice is good.

It might be good, but it might not feel safe. It might feel to some people like a con. Yeah. And that is the thing to me that black people are most afraid of. They're afraid of being conned out of their money, out of their emotions, out of all of that stuff. Because you could use their trauma to build yourself. So if you got the doctor at somewhere, which once again, I think you do.

If you got the doctor at somewhere, you need to produce that motherfucker. Yeah, it's really that simple. It's just, was, was, um, Ayyana doctor? She used the title, right? But was she? Let's see. Ayana, Ilya, Iliana, doctor. Let me see.

Oh, she has a law degree. She has a law degree. And a master's degree in spiritual psychology. She's a law degree. See, so look. And she goes by a doctor, but she's a spiritual teacher, life coach. Right. So she has a jurist doctor degree, Dr. Rach, from the City University of New York. That's pretty good. A law and a master's degree from the University of Santa Monica Center for the study and practice of spiritual psychology.

So she's a legit JD, a lawyer, which technically is a doctorate degree. That's real and verifiable. She also received an honorary doctor of Divinity in 2000 from the interdenominational theological. Hold on. Say that again. From the interdenominational theological seminary in Atlanta. And once in those indicates, she later earned a doctorate in metaphysical sciences from the University of Sedona. So. Well, somebody come out here and give a Cheyenne of an honorary doctorate degree.

Yeah. Okay. I mean, you've started a beef with her, so we'll see how far. It's not a beef. It's just a simple, like, just show it. If it's there, just show it. And if you can't, like, it's just ridiculous. I told a girl that in Miami one time.

Just show it. If it's there, it was there, just show it. I don't, you know what I'm saying? You're going to, we're here now. Anyway. And this is not a beef. Like 2000. Like 2005.

2004. I was my first time in Miami. Yeah. Michelle Obama. Interesting. Back to politics. Donnie? Yeah.

Yeah. The former first lady. appeared on the podcast Talk Easy with Sam Fragoso. And the two talked about the Sam, what up. And they talked about the MAGA movement and the people who make you what it is. I can't look some people in the face and tell them you have no right to be angry or to do something that maybe is against your own interest. That's what, that's human nature.

Many of the people who voted for my husband twice. Twice. And I know that that's how they feel. It's like, this isn't, this isn't about anything. Other than I'm just, we need something different. They voted for Donald Trump, yeah. You know? It's a lot of people.

So you can't just pigeonhole them and say you just don't care and you're racist or whatever you're thinking. This is an act of, I don't know what else to do. I just wish we had more leaders that were figuring out how to do more for the middle class, for the working folks. because those are the folks who are drowning in this economy. It's not me anymore, but I know those folks, and they're good people, and they don't have a way out. And that makes for bad choices. I'm a little disappointed in what she had to say.

And don't you dare categorize this as beef with Michelle Obama, because I would never. But it is disappointing to hear her say that they shouldn't be pigeonholed and she goes down the list. But one of the things she says is racist. Because to say these are people who just want something different or better, I maybe could give you that in 2016. When we didn't know, you could assume based on the person and businessman that Donald Trump was how he could be in office. We are already dealing with the birther conspiracy theory that he was throwing out there at that point. We have other examples of racism that he did.

But I can say, okay, maybe because he has such a populist message that there were people who just wanted something drastically different, and that's what they were voting on, hoping for a change that would be in their direction. See, fine, maybe I'll give you that. But as we sit here in 2026 for you to say that that's what they're still doing, they just want something different, that just doesn't sit with me. That doesn't sit well with me. I mean, how in 2026, after everything that we've seen him do, after the first administration, the way he denied losing the 2020 election, January 6th, and all the things that he has done that have been rooted in racism, in this second term. And he did it in the first term as well.

How can you sit here and say the person who still supports him and labels him as MAGA is not racist? And I just don't understand why we have to walk on eggshells sometimes to not call a person racist who supports a racist leader and who supports racist policy. What is the benefit in that and what does that actually serve? How does that actually help the situation? because the coddling of racist emboldens them to excuse their behavior as anything but racist. And I am a little tired of people because I'm not a person who throws out that somebody is a racist quickly. I really, really don't. And even when we had Keith Edwards on here and we had that conversation, I did not agree with calling him that when we had him on.

I'm not quick to do that. Keith made his bed. Yeah, yeah. That's why I said when we had him on. I'm not quick to do that. But if you continue to prove yourself to be that, whether it's in an overt way or a covert way by supporting, voting for the person who creates this type of policy, voting for the person who harms the disadvantaged people, you are a racist. You are only voting for yourself and your benefit and not considering. the others and you're voting for things that are hateful and specifically harm them, whether that's

attacks on DEI, whether that's ICE and what they're doing with immigration, whether that's supporting a great replacement theory. The list goes on and on and on. So it is disappointing to me that that comment was made. It would have been better off just left out. I am not excusing anybody who supports MAGA or Trump at this point. You have made your racist bed and you have to lie in it. Why do you think she said it? I have no idea. I mean, playing it safe. Let's go deep into the boughs of what's happening. Why do you think she said it? It's a safe answer to me. It's a people pleasing answer to me. Now, is that why she did it? Your husband isn't even in office anymore, so I don't see how it could harm you in calling the thing what it is. And I, and this is why

I get frustrated. The way that that comment was made and the handling of it, is, you know, is why we can't get our messaging together. We should be calling out the things for exactly what they are. That's the only way things are going to change. If we both sides it, if we people please, if we play it safe, we tiptoe around it, then again, like I said, it excuses people, it allows people to excuse their racism as something else

when it is racist. So I don't know why other than just so used to playing it safe and to not trying to upset people. think that we have to be bold and loud where we are right now. When Barack Obama speaks right now and he's on the campaign trail for other people, when you hear Michelle Obama or anybody who's been a past president, politician are currently in it, everybody talks about how desperate the situation is right now.

If you truly believe that, you should be so frustrated, so upset, so enraged, that we are in this place in our society with the corruption, with the racism, with people not being able to live as citizens in this country and an administration who's like, I don't even care about your financial situation. I'm going to do things that continue to make mine and my allies better. You cannot be, what's the word? I almost said silent.

You cannot be safe when it comes to it. That's how we got in this position. So I don't know. I don't even care why. I'm mad that it was said. And I'm sorry Michelle Obama, but you got to you we've you can't say we're desperate times and then be and then play it safe the the gloves are off we have to fight it in the way that they're fighting it that's the only way things are going to change it will not work by just going along with the status quo and you just made me go anti michelle obama no i didn't because i think this is it say why she did it no no no i'm asking

That's two black women I had to talk negatively about today. I didn't even think about it like that. Because you know they say that I can never, that I can never get there. I want everybody to mark this episode. I want you to pin it, save it, download it. Because I don't want to hear the shit again. Yeah. Rache Steele.

I even had to criticize Michelle Obama. Right. Which is good, by the way. It's good not to criticize Michelle Obama. But, okay, can I say something about this entire deal? I thought this was very interesting. for a couple of reasons. Number one, can we go back to the Jim Clyburn, Jim Clyburn.

I have trouble with words, Jim Clyburn. I do do as well. Jim Clyburn, Kamala Harris, America is in a racist country thing. Can we revisit that for one second? Okay, so let's revisit that. If we were to revisit that, I would see what I would say about what I saw was that I saw two people, and Holland about something that we all know is true. Not only is America a racist country now,

which you can look at outcomes and all types of different systemic dysfunction and made that determination right now, but in America, white supremacy is not the shark, it's the ocean. The shark is swimming through, but the shark is aided and breathing the eyeing the eyeing. oxygen that he gets from the ocean, the ocean provides the shark with what it needs to kill. In America, white supremacy is the ocean. Provides everyone what they need to kill solidarity, to kill uprising, to kill upward mobility.

It's been like that since the beginning. It's the ocean, not the shark. You can't coal, you can't farm the, you have to change the ocean. You have to change the system, the ecology is what you have to do. I firmly believe that. So I believe that America is inherently a racist country. And there is very little historical analysis that could be done in good faith in any way to refute that. In any way to refute it.

It's the way that it goes. Okay, fine. So I believe that's an obvious truth. I think for Michelle Obama and even her husband, this truth is less obvious. And the reason why it's less obvious is because they want to. an election, two elections. They won two elections, right? People voted for a black family.

And then in 16, those people, not all of them, but some of them for sure, voted for Donald Trump. Then they watched people vote for Joe Biden. Then they watch people once again vote for Donald Trump. So an analysis of the voting trends of America says that if they are all racist, then at times they forget that they are. Now, I do think there is a difference. Let me say this. I don't think that there is a difference, but I know that some people think that there is a difference between people who are racist and don't mind racism.

There's not a difference. I think that people think that there is. I don't think that I am because I am a victim of racism. I have been a victim of racism, a victim of systemic dysfunction. So I think if you cool with it, you want to them. It's something that we have to come to terms with is way more people than we think might not be, might not define themselves as racist, might care about the right things that we think they should care about, might be able to chill with us,

might not in any way discriminated against us, but if somebody else was doing it and it benefited them, they wouldn't care. Yeah. So that, to me, is what I think Michelle Obama is trying to speak to. She's trying to speak to a disaffected voter that puts themselves

and what they want above the humanity and above the living standard or the living, freely of people that they share their community with. And I think the reason why she said this where she's been so clear in the past about the way she feels about people going low,

about how she feels, about the White House being built by slaves, is that I think there's an actual point of, I think she's flummoxed. I think there are a lot of people who feel like just calling them racist is not working. You're not like just calling. Right, because they don't think that they are.

Just calling them racist is not working. And I think that this is part of a strategy and a tone shift that you are going to see. That tone shift is going to be twofold. One, it's going to be to slightly move, particularly the center left of the party away from identity politics, away from politics that are directly

I know I know everybody listens to our audience knows who listens to us knows well identity politics but away

from politics that are directly aimed at one group of people and telling them what they applied are and a class politic

or a political not softening but realignment to issue specific type of talking

and the reason why they're doing that is because they feel like the other thing lost. They feel like coming out and trying to make everybody feel bad that

Trump, trying to make our side feel good about the fact that the Trump supporters are racist and making the Trump supporters feel bad about being racist didn't work. Actually, what you got out of it was like inward influencers.

What you got out of is people that went, fuck it. I'm racist and I can say what the fuck I want to say. And you got a bunch of people that you could not get through to in any way, shape, or form. Now, I'm not saying that that's the right way to go. I'm not saying that I even agree with what she's saying. I'm saying that stuff like this is what people are going to get over the next year, over the next two years, over the next three years. And the question is whether or not we will kick these people's ass from saying it.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't. I'm not saying that we should. I'm saying that the old playbook of these people are racist, sexist, like ghouls that we in no way can live with or talk to. I think you're going to see people crawfish from that

because they feel like they had they shot, they took their shot, and they missed. And because they missed, a lot of shit happened. And one of the things that happened, I'll end on this. is Michelle and Barack Obama had to watch those people try with all of their might to undo his legacy,

to undo everything not just politically but culturally that the election of the Obama family supposedly meant for America. And they're trying to figure out what the fuck happened. And it's easy. It's an easy answer because it's always the same answer for us. It is. We get it. We understand. man, you could ask me a bunch of different questions.

You can ask me a bunch of different questions. I'm like, race, race, race, race, race. I have to challenge myself to think outside of that box, to think about people in terms of their class, their experiences and all of that stuff. And I can't always do it. Actually, you guys know I very rarely do it. But I think that Michelle Obama and Barack Obama

and a lot of the intelligency and not just in this part of the Democratic Party but to the left of them is going to try it. And I'll just be honest, I keep looking at Graham Platner. I keep looking at Grand Platner. Graham Platner, the left, my beloved lefties, please tell Graham Platner to speak to somebody black. Please. They don't even, like, I'd say this, like, as far as my agreements and where I find myself politically and my beliefs on the left side of the, the, the, the, the, the sphere of things, moving left.

One thing I will say is sometimes I feel like they decentralized black needs so much to the point to where there's no actual black representation. There's like no need to speak to or about or directly through black people at all. There's nothing. Right now you see members of the squad. You see Summer Lee. You see all types of people. Summer Lee even touched on this.

what we had on the podcast. But when you look at somebody that had a Nazi insignia on his chest, it's no different than, because people are telling me, it's like, hey, Van, you know, like a lot of my lefty friends, not that far left, not my revolutionary lefty friends. They were mad about the Tom Steyer interview. But a lot of them are saying, hey, a billionaire is a billionaire. I can look at them about Platner and say, hey, a Nazi is a fucking Nazi. And if you're asking me right now to give a. Nazi a chance or somebody that had a Nazi tattoo and explain it, explanations all seem okay. They seem okay when he's talking to Hassan.

They seem okay when he's talking to Sam. They seem okay when he's talking to Kyle. They seem to say okay when he's talking to Sam and Emma, all of the people out there. Crystal, all of them. He hasn't sat down with anyone that to me, to me, like gets their head. kicked in in this country for that type of imagery being made mainstreamed or being accepted by the white boy, a drughead type of jarhead type of situation and had that conversation at least to feign that he cares. So to me, there are racial problems all over this. Black

people, in my opinion, want to know concretely that people understand the level of racism that exists in America. It's very important. It's very important to black people that people go, hey, guess what? We didn't choose to live here. That our culture isn't the problem. We have a beautiful, resilient,

amazing culture. Our culture is positioned as a problem. That positioning is nudged up against American systemic reality. And on the end, we take the loss. but yet we smile yet we move through yet we contribute

yet we innovate and so I think we always want to get into this and I have this conversation about how we call it out for her I just think they are so based

in what they see as an incongruent political reality that they're going it's got to be something else and we got to find out what it is and they're going to start trying stuff they're going to say disaffective voters.

There's going to be a little bit of election tampering type of situations that you hear about like how some of these races are going. You're going to hear economic stuff. But what I hope that they end up doing is trying to reach out with a class conscious, populist message that tries to get people on the same page. And that is fine. And I think that you can do that and accomplished exactly the last part of what you said about a message that is about class and a populist message without saying.

without saying MAGA isn't racist or however she phrased it, I'm paraphrasing. That could have been left out. I just think that you don't have to say that as well as a part of it. We don't know why she said it that way.

We're guessing, but I do hope at the end of the day with all that you said, I hope that the message does become simpler and I hope that and effective. That's really the only way I can say it. Before you get off this, let me ask you this.

When she says MAGA and this, do you think she's talking about the 37% of people, which I'm sorry, guys, they're racist. Yes, they're racist. That 37% that we talked about before, they're racist, man. I'm like, they're racist. You know, it's me. I'm trying to expand the ideas. I'm trying to expand the ideas. But that 37%

That 37% is a motherfucker All right That 37% That sent them To alligator Alcatraz percent That percent is a motherfucker Okay

That roll back your voting rights percent That percent right there Them Them motherfuckers are something else That Lakeisha is going to crash a plane percent That percent is a motherfucker So who are you asking me if I'm talking about Or do I think she's talking about?

Is she talking about every Trump voter? When she says MAGA, is she talking about that 37%? Well, she said they're not all racist. So she's got to be talking about Republican. Does she say, when she says 37%, is she talking about just those diehards? Or is she talking about anyone that might have voted for President Trump? I think she's talking about anyone who voted for President Trump,

which is why I think that she phrased it that way. because I think that there are people who believe just because they voted for him doesn't make them MAGA. I think there are Republicans who truly are like, I voted for him, but I'm not, I'm not an extremist like that. Well, not Republicans. Forget about Republicans. Think about independence and like, and just people like that.

Yeah, but again, knowing what you know, in 2024, if you voted for him, you got sprinkles of racism in you. You're racist. Anybody that casts a vote for Trump, at this point. Yeah. Especially when we knew, we already knew about Project 2025. You knew what was that?

Like, come on. Come on. So you want to talk to you just didn't think it was going to be that bad, right? What are they, what are the people? What are the Andrew Schultz say? I didn't think he was going to be that bad. Yvonne said that to me. I didn't think he was going to do that.

No, you were again, we've said at times again. You were, you were voting for your interest. Yes, because you were only concerned about what it was going to do for you. and you did if you were only concerned about what it's going to do for you and you don't care how that that and that is the goal not caring how it impacts other people what else do you want to call that right i think though that michelle i'm not tiptoeing around it anymore i'm not tiptoe around it rachel no one's asking you to tiptoe i'm not put your toes all in it i'm tired i'm tired of dancing around like like the degrees of racism i'm tired of being like what did you say

Now you dance? I can't dance, Bernard? You're laughing too hard. I can't dance. I'm saying you dancing. You're dancing. Who you're dancing for? Because that could be considered, you know.

Well, I'm not is the thing. You ever dance with Brian? You ever dance? We dance. Tough. I mean, you know, we dance. Tough. What do we?

What? Don't make me more upset. All right, look, we got to go. Look, we didn't even get to Jeff Bezos. Why? He thinks we're stupid. I'm not doing it. Do you care about the slush fund at all?

You want to talk about? That's one of yours. No, no, no. I think it's just like already been, what's been said, it's been said. It's the 1.7, 1.776. You realize. Properly. Yeah.

The number obviously relates to 1776. But, I mean, I feel like everything's been said. And I kind of alluded to it when I was like, you should be outraged in the fact that, you know, you got the slush fund over here. and he doesn't care about your financial situation over here. I've already said it, you know? Like, I don't think it can be legally challenged. It's going to happen.

Yeah. Like, I know that there are police officers who were there January 6th who were challenging it under the 14th Amendment. But it is what it is. Billion dollar lawsuit, which I just, I do want to say this. Todd Blanche, Trump's personal attorney, who is. is now will probably be the attorney general, which just stopped there. It's just wild. The president's personal attorney is about to be the attorney general. That's insane right there. But he's like, well, this might be unusual that we're doing this, but it's been done before. And he refers to what

President Obama did with the Native Americans when they, I think they sued the Department of Agriculture, but that had been something that had been in the works in the court system for years. And the settlement, what they were awarded was awarded by a judge. And it was awarded directly to the people that were saying they were harmed. That is not what's happening here. Trump, sues, IRS, they settle on him making this fund for people who were not even a part of the lawsuit. That is unprecedented. So it's stop there.

Then the other part of it is, which adds to the corruption, the people who decide who's going to get the money. There's no standard, right? They can just pass it out however they want. Five people all put on the board. whatever that is, these five commissioners, but Trump. Like, there's really nothing else to say about it, other than he continues to show you that we're in a deficit. We can spend billions of dollars on a war.

We can take away your health care. We can take away money from education. We can take away money from, you know, aid to other countries. We can take away money in all these other places, but we can find a billion dollars for people who were allegedly wronged by the government. that you will pay for, by the way. And why? Because he doesn't care about your financial situation.

It's just worth another thing you should just be outraged by. Well, there's only one thing I got to say about it. It's interesting to me. I think the whole thing is really interesting. Because, like, white people keep finding money to pay white people when they've been done wrong by government. they always find a way to make themselves whole.

Well, this is for everybody, though. Well, allegedly. What I'm saying is that something happened and in order to take care of people that you think matter, you create a $1.8 billion fund so they can get their bread. So they can get redress

or something that you think happen to them that is unjust. You care about that. You care about keeping that coalition of people together and believing in what it is that you're saying. So when something that you think, erroneously, happened to them that was unfair, you pay them.

You pay them, then you rely on the fact that they will get those payments, be made whole. when it is time to be made whole and that that'll make them better, more loyal, more engaged citizens. No, to them.

To whom ever. To whatever you got going on. Right now, you are the government. So I just find it really interesting the amount of money that America can find to pay to people who they think have been wronged when those people aren't black,

when those people aren't people whose ancestors tilled, built, and then were defraud, debanked, disenfranchised for years, and said, hey, we need a little bit of what we got back. Well, they should apply. They should apply. Because I would actually want people to do this,

people who were wronged through ice, all of this. And then let's just see who gets the money and who doesn't. My point is that America makes a way for the people that they believe are Americans. I'll say it again. America makes a way for the people that they believe are Americans. They made a way for the slave owners Who owned your great great parents Black asses?

Because they thought that they were Americans. They believed that they were Americans. This is named the 1776 Fund. This is not named that, but it's 1.7. This is the American Fund for Americans that they believe were treated unfairly by America. That is essentially what,

what a bunch of black people have been asking for for generations. Americans done wrong by America that want redress for having been done wrong by America and there's never enough money, there's never enough will, there's never enough conversation, but I can point to this and many other examples.

When actual American, Americans are done wrong by this country, America pays them back. Well, and to further your point, the number 1.776 is almost an ode to the America that they wish they still had, which is why it's benefiting. It's benefiting the Americans from 1776.

Those are the type of people who benefit, but everybody should apply. Also, like, no, I'm not even going to get in that. Let's tell you guys. I'll tell you what. Here you go. Got to go. Here's the thing.

I wanted to be known after this pod who supports black women here. Bernard. Bernard, you had a chance. You had a chance to jump in on behalf of Chey and Bryant. You could have said that you would have studied with her. You'd help her. You had a chance to jump in on behalf of Michelle Obama. But you didn't.

But I tell you what? When we was talking about Chelsea Handler, I saw you grab me for that mic. You're never going to live it down. Bernard, you need to check yourself. You say, your girl, she's Lebanese? Damn, she got all kinds of problems right now. Yeah. Oh, look, you feel a kinship with her.

You feel a oneness with her because of that. You guys talk about, that's how you feel, you think that makes it okay. What? Okay. We've got to go. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You never.

Tiffany got your ass right. Tiffany came in here. Tiffany was on. Fire. Shout out Tiffany Cross, man. Shout out Tiffany Cross. Cross. Cross. Crossed up. All right, guys, we got to go. But the hard searching for himself. We did the whole thing today. We didn't miss anything. We didn't. Donnie, you going to say anything about the pissings before we go?

No. Oh, oh, hold on for a second. There's one thing we do have to touch on before we leave. I just want to say something real quick. It would be remiss of us not to talk about the horrific, terrible, unconscionable shooting that happened at a mosque down and Diego. We will go deeper into this on Monday with a guest. Okay. There's a guest reached out. It wants to come talk about this because it is being, in my opinion, purposely underreported

about the threats to Muslim people all over this country, the Islamophobia that is running rampant all over this country, all over this world in the wake of what has happened. And we want to cover it in depth today, but we're going to have a guest on Monday. Not on Monday because it's a holiday. Not on Monday because it's a holiday. I told them Monday and I fucked up. Guess what happened? But I'm so glad you told them that because we do need to talk about it.

So many times other attacks against groups of people are made mainstream. And when it comes to Islamophobia, it's not talked about in the same way. And that's just the truth. And the truth also is, to your point, it's on the rise. Right. So. It's on the rise. Well, definitely.

So the only reason why we're not diving deep into this is because we have a passionate guest that wants to come. and discuss this and get into the ends and outs of it, but we did not want to make our Muslim listeners feel like we did not see them and we do not feel their pain. And we also also see the way that this has been covered in mainstream media on places like Fox where I saw this lady talk about some of the, we'll talk about it all, but we get what's happening, we understand what's happening, we feel you, we hear you,

and we will donate some time not just to this particular appalling act of violence but also to the Islamophobia and the violence that this community is under in general. So we will do that on the next higher learning. Take your thing caps off and do not stop learning on Vanity Jr. I'm Rachel Lennsey. Bye, guys.