Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Jeffrey Epstein, Nicki Minaj, and the Streets

Episode Date: December 23, 2025

Van and Rachel react to the latest Epstein file dump, Nicki Minaj’s “surprise” appearance at a Turning Point USA conference, and Dave Chappelle’s latest Netflix special. Plus, a breakdown of the “f--k the streets” controversy and the Jake Paul–Anthony Joshua fight. (0:00) Intro (7:54) Jeffrey Epstein file dump (39:31) Nicki Minaj at TPUSA (1:02:06) Dave Chappelle’s 'The Unstoppable' (1:21:59) “F--k the streets” (1:40:52) Jake Paul vs. Anthony Joshua (1:58:00) Timothée Chalamet’s rap video Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Jade Whaley Social Producer: Bernard Moore Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? How I learning is on is I, Van Lathen, Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. Crazy ending to the Detroit Lions football game last night. Oh. Crazy ending. Donnie?

You want to talk about sports in Michigan? No, I don't. I'd rather talk about anything else. Which all I got out for the holidays. Anything, Donnie? Would you rather talk about Jeffrey Epstein? I would. Let's do it.

You'd rather talk about Jeffrey Epstein than the Lions. I'd rather talk about the lions, but... That's crazy. That just lets you know. Well, guys, let's get right into it. Screw the pleasantries. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas to everyone.

Merry Christmas. Happy holidays. Happy holidays. You afraid to say Merry Christmas? I said Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays. It's called inclusivity. Zas said Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays. However you may celebrate.

What's this assault on Christmas? I'm literally wearing the hat. I know. For those watching, Van brought Christmas hats, which is very, very sweet. Very cute. Do you, but you,

is there something that you have a problem with Christmas? Do I look like I have a problem with Christmas? All right. We, weird,

for this podcast today, we're on the right. Of what? Politics, everything. Everybody, people are going right. This is now

higher learning brought to you by Turning Point USA. It is. We're on the right. We're on the right. What's a nigga the threeds,

nigga? He keeps putting us on the right. Oh, He keeps putting you on the right. Your best friend is Keith Edwards. Keith, if you're going to post me this much, you got to give us some dialogue, Keith. Well, no, he is.

You see very quickly after we did this podcast and you called him out, we called him out, you called him the name. He said, we got an email that said he would love to look for a time in January where you didn't see that. He's coming on the podcast now. Well, he has to now because he continues to cut snippets

that are in favor, you're his favorite person right now. Like, he continues to put out snippets on the attack of a particular black woman from Texas, and he uses you to further his point against her. So here's the thing. I'm going to be honest. I got to say this. Here's the thing. I cannot do anything but be honest about my perspectives on here.

I owe that to the audience and to myself. I will say this, though, and this is to Keith. I love this, and I'll tell you why. There is nothing more tried and true than a white guy using a black guy to attack black people for him. Because what is it giving? I have black friends. It is. Keith, I got to keep it real on here.

And I would say this to Congresswoman Crockett, if she was on the show, she was on the show, I talk about the video, the rollout. Yeah. I talk about how I see her as a. national political figure, all the things I love about her, and some things that I don't like about a centrist, left politicians in of themselves. Be honest about that. We'll always be honest about that because I think Congressman Crockett would want me to be honest about that.

Yeah. Had a conversation with one of the big dims this morning. Whole conversation, and I think they appreciated the conversation, and I did too. However, what I love, because remember I've been around TMZ and stuff like that, I don't mind that Keith is doing that. But it shows me that Keith has an agenda. And that's okay too. Which is what? But that's what was the original conversation?

But it's okay that he has an agenda. See, that's my point. My point is having an agenda is okay if you're in this space. It's okay to have an agenda. And my point is don't act like you don't. I don't know that he hasn't. Oh, Keith. I believe Keith is acting like he's saying.

oh my God they're calling me racist which I don't agree with set that on this podcast I don't agree with that I do not I'm not gonna say Keith is racist I don't think I don't think that but or he hasn't shown me anything to make me say that however there is an agenda he's not saying that well nobody say and I agree with you it's okay that is your it is your platform and you're allowed to do that but don't act like people are dumb when they say that well okay or they're wrong when they're saying that you have one okay if they're saying that is based on race that he doesn't like it because she's black. That's one thing.

If they're saying that agenda is, if he was to come out and say, hey, I favor James Hallorico because all this sounds like. He did that in the video. It's fine with me. I have no problem. No problem with him saying I like one candidate or the other one. If we are saying that that is because she is black, I think that at least deserves a little bit more interrogation and investigation.

But Keith, can't wait to have you on there, Keith. I can't either because he continues to use your clips as if that is a higher learning thought. and it's not. It's just me. Higher learning is two people. Rachel Van, it's actually a lot of people.

You got fucking Bernard. You got Jade back there. You got Donnie. Like, higher learning is a whole intelligentsia and I'm just the nigger who's consistently wrong on the show. That's my function.

But when I saw it, I was like, sitting to the group chat. Sitting to the group chat. I'm going to be, I'll say one last thing before we get to Epstein. Because you're not on threads. I want you to see it.

There's one last thing before we get into Epstein here, the Donnie. who said he would rather talk about Jeffrey Epstein than Detroit Lions football. So we're going to let him cook on the big deal of the day. Doddy, this is you. I think that this is all, in my opinion, a conspiracy between you and Keith and those nice, so positive sisters

that I see that are in these threads fighting against Keith. I think this is a conspiracy from y'all to get people on threads. I have never seen anything worthwhile happen on threads ever You're just not on it I've never seen it You guys going back and forth on threads This is making me look at threads Which I've never done

There are a lot of people who actually wrote me After the last podcast who were like Vea just doesn't know like Threads really is where it's at Like you know who's big on threads People who used to be big on like Jemel Huge on threads Like she's big period Happy birthday to my sister

Yeah happy birthday Jamel No like I You see Jamel's birthday post? I loved it. I loved it. You better, Jamel. You look fantastic. I like, like, it's just so empowering.

So empowering. My mom is attracted to her husband. It's beautiful. Oh, brus. Oh, yeah, he is. I saw them on a plane one time. Like, I was going to New York to do something. And I think they were going to New York and then going to another country on.

And I was like, I'm sitting down. I'm tired, whatever. And on my periphery, I see this black couple and they're toasting champagne as they're about to, we're about to fly. I think they were going on a vacation. And I look over, I'm like, man, who are these happy-ass niggas toasting champagne? I got to go work. I look over and this Jamel and toasting champagne.

They're a happy black couple. Happy birthday of Jamel. Yeah, she's on threads. That's fine. A lot of people. No, I'm just telling you. What about spill? Who?

Yeah. Spill? Yeah. Excuse me. Mm-hmm. Okay. You're all over threads. What about spill?

And what I like about threads is that a lot of the people I don't, like, I don't follow these people and I'm constantly put, I'm just telling you, there are a lot of people. I'm not even going to do what I did last podcast. Fine, let's move on. You're not on it. You don't like it. It's fine. And I might get on it now.

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Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See terms at Fandual.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash herms. Epstein files. Johnny, this is your shit. You want to talk about this rather than Jared Gough and OPI. I didn't really feel like it was that egregious in OPI. It certainly was Opie.

I want to, but we're not going to get into that. Tell us about what happened with the Epstein files. Yeah, the Department of Justice on Friday. They released more than 13,000 documents tied to Epstein. That initial release, it was pretty heavily redacted, but it did include previously unseen images of eye-profile figures taking pictures with Epstein, including Bill Clinton, McJagger, Michael Jackson, and Chris Tucker,

who was interviewed, I believe, and released a statement about some of those pictures. What did you guys think? of the dump. The dump. That's exactly what it was, though. It was a dump. It was a dump.

I just, you know, I'm grateful for the Rokanas and the Thomas Massies and everybody else who continues to support this. Because for me, I'm like, I'm so tired of it. But it's necessary, right? No, no, no, no. It's absolutely necessary, but it's tiring with every time we're told, oh, we're going to get something. there's always pushback.

It's never what it seems. We know it's out there. We know this is an administration that is continuing to, I don't even know if it's circumvent the rules because at this point they're breaking the law. Like what Pambandi is doing is breaking the law at this point. The only thing that I will say that I appreciate amongst the frustration of not getting the information

that we're told that we're supposed to get or legally supposed to get in this time is that it continues to make the administration look worse. every time it comes to the Epstein files and the Trump administration, they look worse. They look suspicious. They look like they're hiding something, which they totally are. And that I'm for. But I'm so exhausted with this.

I wouldn't say that I was like waiting for the drop because I just knew that something was going to happen. It always does. You know what I like about you? What? You're a regular American. You just call me regular? Be careful, Rachel. Be careful about making yourself a permanent victim in every state that ever made.

I'm asking a question for clarification purposes. Can I, why not let me extrapolate it? Okay. You're a regular American, meaning you're a person that has a life that has goals and dreams and ambitions that cares deeply. I am a deviant, a freak, okay? I'm a, I'm obsessed with this. I know you. I'm one of the people that that's really ruining everything.

I am one of them. I'm one of the people that it's like a dog with a bone, can't let go of stuff. Whatever it is, if it's AI, it's Epstein, it's Venezuela, it's Israel, like a deep, deep, deep, corruptible mind. Obsessive compulsive. Obsessive compulsive. What can I read? What can I see? Where can I go?

Who's behind this? What's happening? And the types of people like myself, these are the type of people that are the people that. it's ruining society at large. It's a gift and a curse. That's not true. It's a gift and a curse. No, no, no.

It's 100% facts. It's 100% facts because sometimes you get to the end of something and you get to the end of something. But then you have people that go, oh, maybe there's something else. And then you have to do the work, which is painstaking and insanely, insanely useless to like see what the actual story is. You have to look at it and continue to get more information and more information.

And that leads to this entire cottage industry right now of people just going, I'm just asking questions because there are people out there that are like me, a black molder, right? Molder and Scully, like a black molder, right? Walking around refusing to believe it.

Gotta get answers, got to get answers, got to get answers. You must believe what is real, what is real but it's real. Stuff like this, the Epstein files, for people like me, intoxicating. I looked at all the pictures. I know you did. Every one of them.

I looked at every picture, and I came away with conclusions. Clearly a blackmail operation going on. I'm sure of it. Clearly a wide-reaching blackmail operation that's going on. And let me tell you why. We've all taken pictures. Yeah, yeah, of course.

Been the spring break before? I never experienced it. Sadly. I never had like a wild spring break. True. I would say it. Okay. So if you went to spring break, you took pictures.

It's a part of it. Yeah, you did. The question is, what kind of pictures did you take? When you were at spring break, what pictures did you take? Not my experience, but especially back then when there was no social media like that, you took everything. You documented it all. You documented at all, but you documented the things that were worth documented. many, right? When I'm looking at these pictures, I'm seeing a lot of photos and a lot of different

images that I'm looking at, and I'm saying, why was that picture taken? What is the use of that picture? What is the use of this picture? I'm looking at it right now. I'm bringing up old Billy Boy, because there's an Epstein Files browser that was made. We're going to talk a little bit more about Rocana and Thomas Massey's response to the DOJ's release. Before we do, there's a file viewer that was released. And we're just going off the pictures here. These are the people that are in the Epstein file pictures. Epstein, 275 pictures. Galeigh Maxwell,

90 pictures. Number three, Bill Clinton. We knew that was coming. We'll talk about Bill Clinton a little bit later. 25 pictures. Walter Cronkite. Nine. Chris Tucker 6. Talk about Chris in the second two. Chris got something to say to you guys. William Daniel Hillis, Henry Jurecki.

Ted Wade, Mick Jagger was in 40s, John Brockman, all different types of people. The Duchess of York, David Copperfields in three, we know he a freak. Kevin Spacey, Wexer, Richard Branson, two from Michael Jackson, the Michael Jackson estate and the entire Michael Jackson world vehemently denied. Any type of nefarious activity from the King of Pop. they've been talking about it. They're very upset with people. They're saying, throwing dirt on Mike's name even more.

Well, because what the, I guess like what the connotation is is if there's a picture, then that equates some type of wrongdoing. Wrongdoing. Which I was watching a video of a woman saying that she had spent time around Epstein, not on the island. And she was like, this was a man who was obsessed with celebrity. And it didn't matter where he was or who he was with. he was always asking a picture and he was for a picture and he was always taking pictures.

So when I saw like the Michael pictures, they look like a fan taking pictures with the celebrity. And so I was like, that makes a lot of sense. And I think that that's a perspective that's very useful because just because there's a picture with someone doesn't equate to wrongdoing. So to counter a little bit your point with the spring break of it all, it doesn't mean that there was a purpose for taking the picture, at least based on this woman's account. Doesn't mean that there was a particular, they took that picture for a specific reason. It sounds like he just was like a big picture taker.

But this is the, but this is the, but this is the, but this is the deal, though. I looked at all the pictures. And I'm looking at even these pictures of Walter Cronkite. You're looking at pictures of Walter Cronkite right here, right? Walter Cronkite, the face and voice of the United States news media for a long time. There are nine pictures of Cronkite here. Let me see. Look.

There are nine pictures. of Cronkite here. Mm-hmm. Right. They're all the same. From the same, it looks like a one-time thing. Yeah.

But I mean, like, that's important to describe the people. Well, no, no, no. They're all, I'm not saying that Walter Cronkite was involved in anything. What I'm saying is that the way that these pictures

are laid out, taking nine different pictures of the same conversation, it doesn't make any sense. And a lot of times in these, uh, in this entire drop, when you look at the pictures,

if we were at spring break or any, anywhere else, you take one picture of this, two pictures of this, you take pictures where these people are posing. Nine candid shots of this gentleman talking to Walter Cronkite. I'm not saying that there's anything here to blackmail the beloved Walter Cronkite. I'm saying that these pictures seem like surveillance. I'm telling you, these pictures don't seem like just photos that you take to document fun times and memories. They seem like surveillance. They seem like pictures that you're taking

habitually because you're trying to document different things in ways to gain leverage over people. Maybe not Kronkite in this situation, but all of this seems like file building. It seems like the building of a world and stuff that you want

to have. Certainly some of these pictures with Bill Clinton, when you look at some of them, you see pictures of Clinton. There's one picture with Clinton and Epsey and they're getting off together. Look at this. That's some Biggie Puff shit. They got the They dressed the light. They dressed the light.

The whole deal. They were clearly friends. Very, very close friends. You can look around and, you know, some of the people in these pictures with Bill Clinton are redacted. There's one picture of a young lady sitting on Bill Clinton's lap. Pictures with pilots. Pictures with Bill Clinton and Mick Jagger. A couple of different pictures, Bill Clinton and the chef.

All of this stuff. It seems as if this is part of a wide-ranging years-long documentation process. I can't say for what reason. I don't know for what reason. but what I'm saying is if you were to look at all of the photos, there are 4,000 images. I looked at all of them. There are other images, right,

that are of Jeffrey Epstein's personal residence where freak, nasty weirdness in a massage room, paintings of what looked to be nubiles. I looked this term up, Neubile, which is like a young, supple woman, around as he's getting massages. It seems like all of these pictures are for purpose. Like just think about it like this.

If in fact you were in the nubile room where all of the stuff is, you take photos of all the pictures there. It looks like anyone that got a massage in that room is a freak. When you look at the massage room, I'm going to show it to you. And did the pictures show anybody getting a massage? No, but it did show the massage room. We know he was freaky. I know. We know he was freaky.

But think about what you would think if you saw that room. And then you knew that someone got a massage in that room, you would think, number one, based upon other things that have happened, you would think that person is freaky. You also, because you know of the crimes committed in that room, you would think that person is engaging in those same crimes. So actually having the photo of the room and the constant surveillance of everything that Jeffrey Epstein has had, shall I say, to me, there's a purpose behind it. there had to have been. Even the tape, I mean, the Chris Tucker thing is one thing. Chris Tucker is going to use, actually, let's hear from Chris Tucker real quick. Because I want to get this out so people understand what some of the celebrities that haven't been involved in the drop are saying in regards to why they might be in the Epstein files.

You knew Jeffrey Epstein, didn't you? Yeah, I did. I did. You know, we flew Bill Clinton and a lot of different, well, that was that was a humanitarian. trip to Africa. And I met him on that trip because it was his plane. I didn't know who plane we was getting on. But it was a whole bunch of dignitary people who was with a delegation.

And, yeah, I met him. And, you know, you don't know people what they do with their private lives. So, yeah. But can't tell me this, Chris, he was on this private plane. And you could tell that it was a private plane because they called it, was this Lolita Express? Oh, yeah, it was a private plane. Yes. Oh, yes.

But wait a minute. You didn't never go to that island, did you? No. No, no, no, no. Uh-uh. I don't know where that they got. No, no. Sounds like Red Fox.

So look, all of these pictures, look, pictures of sex toys and all of this stuff. Look at this big, there's a big... It's a big... It's a gigantic dildo. It looks like some roleplay. Yeah, he was freaked out. We know that. But what I'm saying is,

The documentation of all of this stuff just feels like there's intent behind it. But he didn't take those pictures necessarily. Not all of them. Yeah, like I thought that was part of when he was under investigation. Right, not all of them. So it looks like it was prepared for a fight. Those look like that was taken as part of investigation.

Of course, not all of them. Some of them, though, not all of these pictures that you're looking at right now. Some of this stuff is investigative stuff. You are right. Some of this stuff, it's marked with investigation stuff on their stuff. some of that stuff, but then there are other pictures and other surveillance that came from that room. So most of the, and I don't know if these will ever be made publicly, most of the rooms that we're talking about, I should be more specific in that. That's a good point.

Most of the rooms that we're talking about in his house had cameras in them. So he was watching the stuff that was going on there. That plus the pictures and all of that stuff, to me, this Lenz Creton, to me in my that there was some sort of blackmail operation that was going on and it's deeper it's deeper than rap

but you know what you have to do to come to that you have to speculate and that's the problem with the information that was released that's why you have the Roe Connas and the Thomas Massey and even the victims who are very upset at the release that came out on Friday

because it doesn't point to anything specifically other than Jeffrey Epstein was a freak. It doesn't, like, we knew Bill Clinton, there would be a bunch of pictures of him. We even had heard about Chris Tucker. We knew he flew on the plane. We knew it.

The point is that I'm not saying, your speculation may very well be true, but at the end of the day, it's speculation because we're getting a bunch of nothingness and all of this. And that is the frustration. Even the people who were harmed, are like, this is not it.

This is not enough. What are you hiding? Why are you hiding it? So this is what I'll say to you. Okay. I don't believe that it's nothing. It's for two reasons. Number one, Ryan Grimm and Dropside News have been doing incredible reporting over there.

Go watch and listen to and read what they're doing over at Dropside, which connects Epstein and his existence to all types of foreign dignitaries. And who Barack, who was a former prime minister of Israel, even his connections to Wexler, who is this gigantic clothing mogul. who had a business relationship with Epstein that did not seem to be fully formed. There's no direct understanding of what Wexner's relationship with Epstein is, other than it seemed like perhaps Epstein had something over him. Wexner was like the Victoria's Secret guy and all that stuff, unlike a lot of different calls, a very rich guy. It seemed like Epstein had something over him that made him invest his money

or like give money to Jeffrey Epstein. So all that stuff is being talked about and reported on in various news media outlet places and stuff. But there's not just pictures that came from this. There's also emails and testimony and all of that. And that stuff a lot of times is more useful. For example, if in fact you would read that if we're speculating on the nature of relationship

between Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump, if in fact you read that a 14-year-old girl was introduced to Trump and Trump and Epstein joked about it or that Trump's wife at the time told this 14-year-old girl, hey, don't go anywhere near my husband. That then, in a way, that's at least... She has denied that, though. Maybe she has, but that is at least background

into maybe what the nature of their relationship was. I'm not in any way, we can't say here on higher learning. We have a lawyer on the premises that anybody definitively has had any type of relationships that are untoward beyond the people that have been charged and convicted in all of these cases. But what I'm saying is the people, the proximity, all it is stuff that's in this when you look at it, the backdrop of other stuff that I've read, I'm just like a dog with a bone here, can't wait till the next drop. Can't wait until we get the rest of the stuff, which is another problem that we have because Massey and Roe Conna, they might be looking to impeach members of the DOJ because of the fact that the files were heavily redacted, too redacted to them for them. And also the fact that they didn't get all of it on December 19th. Yeah. Like they were supposed to.

Yeah. I mean, they're even talking about holding. Attorney General Pam Bondi in contempt. Yeah. Until they get it all. And I think the one thing that they're hiding behind, right? Like there's certain things that they don't have to release and they are allowed to redact. But they're also able to redact files for national security purposes.

And that's a catch-all that I feel like they're trying to redact more than necessary or even protect Trump under the guise of national security. Yeah. So the... The actual Epstein Files Transparency Act allowed them those redactions, like you said. But it seems as if DOJ is playing fast and loose with what they're redacted. The way you're talking. You're on the case. I'm on the case.

It seems like DOJ is playing fast and loose with what is that they're redacting. There was a picture of Donald Trump was redacted. There was a stink made, and then they put it back in. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. What is that? What is it? What was it mean?

Well, they said they claim that the court asked them to pull it, but then less than 24 hours later, they put it right back up. Put it right back up. So let me give you something broader here. Because I could really do a separate Epstein. And I know you want to. I definitely do. Let me give you something broader without.

We don't have particularly conspiracy-minded audience. So I want to bore people. Give you something broader. First of all, I give the right credit here. Okay. I give the right credit here for cutting off their nose to spite their face. Okay.

Gotcha. The reason why these files are being made public is because this was a rallying cry from the right. Now, you guys, just so that you guys know during the Biden administration, all of this stuff was an open case. Right. You had an appeal.

Julie Kay Brown is doing fantastic reporting on why this stuff didn't come out during the Biden administration. Kamala Harris has said that the Biden administration itself wanted to stay separate from DOJ. That's despite anything that you're hearing from all lawfare and all of that stuff,

they wanted to stay separated from DOJ. They didn't want directives to D. to DOJ to come from on high and say, hey, do this, right? But beyond that, a lot of this stuff also was still under open investigation. Maxwell had to appeal out all kinds of things, all kinds of reasons why the administration could not and would not release those files while Joe Biden was present. Now, besides that, though, if we're being honest,

the cultural push for this stuff to come out came from the right, and it came from a belief that there is a deep state that is, full of pedophiles, Q&On related, all kinds of stuff. And the strings of power are being pulled by a few people and they have dirt on each other

and we want to see it all. We want to see it all. We want to see it all. We want to see it all. We want to see it all. Everything that's whatever, Martin Luther King, JFK, Epstein, we want it all. We want it all. And they got what they wanted. They did. They voted for people who in the past

had said that they would do this. be it Trump, be it cash Patel, be it J.D. Vans, whomever it is who said that they would do this. Then those people didn't do it. Right. Now, we are on the precipice right now of something really interesting to me in American politics.

What's that? Around the time of the financial crisis when shit was really, really, really bad. People were open more open to me to almost anything. Barack Obama comes along. He gives people a message. We'll talk about the presidency of Barack Obama later, whatever.

Gives people a message. He actually galvanizes and inspires them, and they go, fuck it, let's try it. We've never tried this type of candidate before. Don't be wrong, we've tried the Harvard educated law review guy, all of that. But never the black guy with Hussein as the middle name, with the non. We haven't really tried it like this before.

Mm-hmm. We're on the precipice to me of that on steroids. Okay. People now, for whatever reason, are having arguments, whether those arguments are nutritious and useful or not about what it means to be an American. Now, there's an argument on the right, and that argument is heritage versus credo. If you can trace your people back to the Revolutionary War, you're in a American. If you can't, you're something other. That's what they're arguing. On the left,

there's a different argument that's happening. The argument that's happening on the left is whether or not the status quo for political operation and execution is that much different than what you're getting on the right. Whether or not the status quo, whether or not are politicians, whether or not the politicians that we've elected and entrusted politics, into whether or not they're any different than anybody else. And you're asking yourself, has my minimum wage gone up? Has my health care been affected? You realize the opposition that is on the other side.

And you realize that that opposition is strong. It's well-resourced. And it is dedicated to eroding support for these things that you want. You understand all it is. But people are asking questions about whether or not we can hold people responsible for foreign policy decisions that we don't like, Israel and Gaza, whether or not we can hold people responsible

for fucking around and stuff like this. There are political litmus tests that are out there. And these political litmus tests are meaningful, and they're meaningful because we need to turn over leadership. We need to turn over leadership in a direct way. Not in a way that says, hey, let's vote for better corporatists. Let's vote for different people.

who aren't involved in all of this shit. Right, right. So these conversations, not just with Epstein, but with other things, to me, they matter because I get to decide, I get to make the decision,

who is serious about changing the lives of people, and who isn't. Right. Now, this is, I'm not blowing this up into one of these things, but Roe and Thomas Massey notice. These are two guys on opposite sides.

What they're really trying to do with this Epstein stuff is kill the master's, of their party. They see this as being a weakness for Donald Trump. Donald Trump, who is able to masquerade as somebody who would care about this, who's able to put on a costume but really isn't. And it's a sore thumb and you're able to flick that sore thumb by pressing on it.

That has to happen in a lot of different ways with a lot of different issues. It just has to exist. You have to find out where these people who you think are on your side, health care, on Gaza, on protecting children, on the strength of the worker. You have to find out where they're inconsistent and you have to make them either change or get them out of there. And so I think that is interesting. And I think there's just enough dysfunction in America right now to actually make lasting decisions that might last for a while. That's what lasting means. I said that twice. I'm not a good talker.

about people who we give power to. So if you look at this and you go, you know what, I don't want to vote for the people that might have been fucked up with this. I don't want to continue to fuck around with them. Let's find something different. There are little things like this that give you cultural political roadmaps to do that.

Yeah. No, you're right about Obama. It's how Trump got elected in 2016. And the worst thing that could have happened for Trump with all of this is that it went from just being an Epstein scandal. to becoming a Trump scandal. We talked about it before.

It is now becoming a Trump issue for the way that they keep trying to run away from it. I'm exhausted at all of it, and that's why at the top of this, I give credit to the Massey, to the Kana. Sounds weird.

To the Kana. And even to you, your obsessive, compulsive behavior and your curiosity with it all, because it is what needs to happen. It shouldn't be something that we just pushed to the side. It was such an issue for them,

and if Trump is successful, and being able to separate himself from this and turn the corner on this, it is because, I'll say, of people like me who just got fed up with it and just decided to look away and to look at something else. You do need to push the issue. It is really important for all the underlying issues and the significant things that you're speaking of. We should be like, we should push it.

It is bigger than Epstein because of how we got here. From what they say, everything is bigger than Epstein. That actually makes sense to some of the stuff. Everything was bigger than what Epstein was. Okay. Even, okay. One thing I got, we got to do, we put a pin in the Epstein thing. We'll have more about this.

Roe-Connor couldn't make it today because he's too big for us now. He treats us like the corner-o-le-old story. He's not too big for us. He's not too. He was on morning show. He wasn't. Sunday. You know what, Ro?

Hey, I got something to say to you, Ro. I got something to say to you. When shit is cool for you, you can come on here, you can come on here in person, hang out, do the whole thing. I'm Roe-Kana. You can do the whole thing. But when you pop. You can't stop buying.

No, that's not true. We're about to start calling y'all out, man. No, don't do roll. Like, he would come. He's come on here twice already. Don't do roll like that. All right. So look, I got to say one thing before we get off

the Epsine thing, though. And this is to my friends on the right. What is with this Clinton shit? Like, why do y'all keep throwing Bill Clinton in our face as if we give a fuck about that? Because that's what they give a fuck about. When you talk about the, the who let the,

the movement and what they were motivated by, it wasn't just that there was all these elites and public figures working together and there's this ring of pedophilia and they're all tied to it and they're protecting each other and all of that. Bill Clinton's name was always associated with it. So they're trying to make you believe that it is Bill Clinton. He's the one. Like think of all the things they could have released first and it's all this stuff about Hold on for a second. But let's say Bill Clinton was in it. Let's say the whole thing is Bill Clinton.

I'm supposed to give a fuck about that? It's not for us. What I'm saying is, but they're making it seem like, oh my God, Bill Clinton will fall. I don't like the fact that they think that we care about Bill Clinton. So I've written a series of jokes about Bill Clinton. And I want you to rate the jokes. Okay. You can tell me, right?

I'm not a stand-up comedian, but this. is how I'm this is the thing this is about us not caring I don't give a fuck about Bill Clinton you do okay one to five five being the best five being the best joke okay first joke every black person that cares about Bill Clinton has glaucoma I don't get it okay they're old I apologize okay one okay we don't care about Bill Clinton Bill Clinton would fuck a tricycle if it had titties three three thank you loving Bill Clinton is like fucking dudes in jail is what you do when you don't have any other options. Damn.

Three. Damn. Loving Bill Clinton is like eating well done steaks. Something niggas that don't know no better do. Four. Four. Loving Bill Clinton is like condom sex. Life is better when you don't have to do it anymore.

Oh my God. Two. Two? I'm three. Two? that's good because think about it. Think about the purpose of the joke right there is like you're loving Bill Clinton

is like you having sex with a condom and then you don't have to do it anymore and then your whole world is opened up to meet on meat. And then once that happens, your world has changed. So when I realize I didn't have to love corporate, centrist, Democrats like Bill Clinton,

that changed my view of politics in the world is kind of the same thing. Bill Clinton represented meat on meat. So here's the thing. I got it. It just wasn't funny to me. Which is what I'm supposed to be rating. Something I didn't understand it.

But thank you for that explanation. I'm just saying, Bernard, Jay, Donnie, how did my Bill Clinton jokes go over? If you got to explain them. Damn, man. I thought these was good jokes about Bill Clinton. Do you have anything else?

I just got one more thing to say. Okay. We don't give a fuck. I'll be able to do it. We don't give a fuck about Bill Clinton. Five. Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis,

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Order now at order. Dot Sweetgreen.com. Turning Point USA had its annual America Fest this past weekend. And there was a surprise, maybe not so surprise, appearance from Nikki Minaj, who came out with Erica Trump, wife of Erica Kirk, excuse me, wife of Charlie. She's not in the family yet. What did you say? He said Erica Trump.

She's not in the family yet. She's still got some work to do. Let's hear from Nikki. If as black women, we felt that we were not being represented and not being admired for our beauty, if we felt like that as black women, why would we want to do that to other women? Why would we now need to make other people downplay their beauty so that we can feel? No, that's not how worse. I don't need someone with blonde hair and blue eyes to downplay their beauty.

Betty Minaj. Because I know my beauty. Do you understand? It doesn't bother me that a woman feels and says that she's beautiful. Why shouldn't she feel that? Why should have we got to a point where certain colors or certain kinds of people have to be afraid of loving themselves and loving the way they look? Jay, you hearing this?

Like, it's, isn't that wild? Rachel, hold on real quick. Before we get into it, before we get into it, you agree with that, right? Are we going to get into it yet? Just before we get into it, I just want you to talk to the little white girls

that might be listening. Because we got white women that listen to, we got a lot of bachelor people, so they're white as fuck. So it, it, it, you agree with that, though? I do not. You don't agree that you want little white women

to look in the mirror and feel beautiful? Maybe it's Maybe it's Maybelline? I don't agree with Nikki with Nicky Minnage saying that we put them down and make them feel like they aren't beautiful. That is not what black women are doing out here. Okay, okay. What y'all doing? And it seems like to me that it's a lot of little barbara's that's running around. They're like, mommy, I don't want, I've seen, I've seen this entire where they change their hair.

Have you seen that? They have been. Who's changing their hair? They're dying their hair. Yeah, they're trying to be. They feel ugly. and they want to look more like you. Okay.

Yeah. Well, you know who does make them feel beautiful? Who? Black man. I don't know if I'm in a mood or what today, but this is also something that I am just like, it's Nikki Minaj. It's like this is the least,

I was not shocked to see her walking out hand in hand with Erica Kurt. I don't even know if Nikki Minaj was aware of where she was. Did you watch it? I did. It was one of the most awkward things. Nikki Minaj is not well. And neither is this whole movement, this TPUSA, this Am Fest, whatever you want to call it. It was a joke.

Nikki Minaj goes on rants attacking black children, but then wants to stand on, sit on that stage and preach for us black women, allegedly, to not attack white children. but she attacks black children. Let's not forget her unhinged tweets towards Cardi B's children. She does that. But then she's accusing us of doing that. Nobody's doing that. Your husband and brother are pedophiles. Oh, shit.

And they have been convicted. And you constantly defend them. But you're sitting on stage with people who are supposed to be the party that's about protecting children. Nikki Minaj, she's full of contradictions. she's aligned herself with the correct party because that's a party that does that as well. They claim to be Christians and in step with Christ-like principles, yet they spew hatred, division, and lies. That's what Nikki Minaj is. She sat up there as a walking contradiction. Nothing about, nothing Nikki Minaj did on that stage was of sound mind.

It felt deranged at times. And I don't even know if she realizes that she's being used as a pawn. or that she is a fool. She is propaganda, being used as propaganda, to further their agenda. She won't be the first, she won't be the last. I could care less about Nikki Minaj going on it. The same way that you talk about,

the same way that you talk about, why do they think that we care about Bill Clinton so much? I feel that same thing. We don't care at this point. Of course, there are the Barbes out there who still support anything. and try to justify anything that Nikki Minaj does. But we as a black community are not listening to Nikki Minaj and saying,

you know what, she's right. You know what? She's inspiring me to stop attacking little white girls, white children. She's really saying something up there that is really resonating with me and makes me look at myself in a different way as a black person. Nikki Minaj does not have any influence I feel over the black community in 2025. She's a joke. She's a fool.

Okay. So this is my deal. Number one, I didn't really care about Nikki Minaj's opinion on politics before Amfest and I didn't care after, right? However, she is entitled to her opinion. Of course she is.

So she is entitled to her opinion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Right. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. If you have a political awakening and you come to the left, if Nikki Minaj comes, out next year and she goes, hey, I'm for Medicaid, for all, single payer, healthcare.

I'm for not getting involved in foreign wars. If she says all of that stuff, I'm going to be like, look at an ignominage. So she's entitled to her opinion. The opinions that I respect on politics are normally opinions that can be demonstrated by real life experience and then some sort of scholarship. So if you tell me that you are anti-recidivism or anti-against the prison industrial complex, you both, for me, have had to read and written and done some books,

but you also need to have worked with the inmates, the incarcerated people, the formerly incarcerated people. Those are the opinions that I respect. And there are very few people, including myself a lot of times on a lot of issues, there are issues that I get involved with that have that full scope of stuff, right? So her being in Amfess, I don't care. She's entitled to her opinion.

She's on the right now. She's entitled to that. The people I really feel for right now are the barbs. And I'm being for real. If you're a barb in 2025, I feel nothing for you. No, no, I can't say that. I can't say that. The people I really feel for are the barbs.

And I'll tell you why. I'm not going to speak for the barbs. I'm not going to speak to them. I'm going to speak to my perception of them. My perception of the barbs is this incredibly loyal fan base that saw themselves in a performer. And if there's one thing that you could say about Nikki Minaj is that she's distinct. She has a distinct way of rapping. She has a distinct look.

She's had a distinct experience. And that distinction, all of the ways that Nikki Minaj was unique, not just musically but in performance and in style that entranced people. They were caught up in it. She became a cult-like figure for those people. And a lot of those people were people that the rest of society like beats up on all the time. Like a lot of those people are people that saw themselves and Nikki Minaj and felt empowered by the fact that Nikki, said fuck you to everybody that Nikki didn't give a fuck about anything that Nikki's music that

they could emulate it if you were a young gay boy or a young gay girl or somebody that was into all the histrionics and all of that stuff it looked like you had a mascot it looked like you had somebody that uh you could like try to be like and and be into and all of that stuff right whatever however you want to say it those people now right a lot of them not all of them because a lot of them are going to support Nikki no matter what. Those people now that have put all of their faith in somebody now have to struggle with something that we all do, which is putting the toys of our youth away. And that's hard to do. I haven't been able to do it. 45 years old, I haven't been able to stop believing in Luke Skywalker. I'm 45 years old. I haven't been able to stop going to Marvel

movies. I'm 45 years old and the things that matter to me during my formative years still matter because it is difficult to put them away. Sometimes, though, people make you. They make you, they make you stand back and go, what the fuck am I doing here? And that's always hard. It's always hard with someone that you've put that much into makes you go, wait a second, fuck.

It's really what we talk about a lot on the podcast. It's really what happened with Snoop. So what happened with any of these guys? You're like, damn, I've been fucking with you and rocking with you for so long. Can I steal? And it's not even about Nikki Minaj. It's about what am I if I am not a fan of you? What am I if I can't listen to this music and be a part of this culture and this movement anymore?

What am I now? And her getting with and aligning with a group or a political mindset, should I say, that is pretty squarely anti-LGB. pretty squarely anti-anti-anti that produces this version of America that is very narrow, incredibly narrow, right, and demands 100% of psychological and intellectual allegiance to them, or you're not one of them, that's limiting. If you think you're about to go to a T.P. USA event and see them open their doors to a whole bunch of barbs next year, You're fucking crazy. They ain't doing that.

Play Charlie Kirk on Nikki Minaj. Right now, black culture is being held captive by influences, songs, and role models. I mean, Nikki Minaj, Cardi B. Okay, Nikki Minaj is causing dads to leave the home. Hold on us. I don't think that's a good role model for 18-year-old black girls. I don't. I don't think that songs that are talking about like glorifying wet female genitalia is exactly, I don't know which one wrote that song.

I think it was Ben Shapiro. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. But is, is, but, but, but by the way, the role models of the 1940s and 50s for black America were completely different. So it is a representation issue. Hold on a second. No, no, representation. It's who do you get your art from? It's what values are they putting forward? It's the question of every day, for example, more times than not, black politicians will lament the condition of America. It's systemically racist. It's terrible. What does that do to a 14-year-old? old black kid if you just find that you hear that everything is rigged against you. Instead, they should be saying, hey, there might be some barriers, but if you believe in yourself enough, you can achieve in this country. So my thing is, for whatever reason that she's had this awakening and she can, she's free to have an awakening. People say she wants to pardon for her husband. People are saying she, she feels the roar of that crowd. Like all your celebrity, every celebrity that you know, every famous person that you love, they're all addicts. They're addicts. They're addicts.

Every single famous person is an addict We're Timsy for nine years They're addicts When Nicki Minaj hit that stage That is her crack You guys are talking about she's on cocaine All of that stuff I don't know what drugs anybody is using I'm not interested in it whatever

When she hit that stage The roar of that crowd That's the drug That's the drug And by the way, that's a drug That's very specific You can go in front of your crime crowd is no different than sometimes the relationships you are you're in.

Ain't no pussy like new pussy, right? You can go in front of your crowd and you can get a roar. You can go in front of your barbs and you can get a roar. But to step in a room, a room of people that have never given a fuck about you before, about you before and get love from then, it feels new, it feels different, it feels invigorating. It feels like it's 2012 again. And that is the reason why I feel bad for the Barbes. I feel bad for them because they have been orphaned. They have been orphaned by their mom who has moved on to another group of Adores, a group of Adores that are in direct contrast

with the last group of people that loved her. And I feel bad for them. I really do. I don't know how many of them are going to be in conflict over this, maybe not as many as I think, maybe more than I think. But I feel sorry for a bunch of people that felt powerful in aligning themselves with Nikki Minaj just to see her go to a place where really they can't follow. I obviously disagree with you when it comes to the Barbes. I think that if this was the first time Nikki Minaj had done something. Of course, we haven't seen her, you know, align herself in this way so publicly and so loud, but she's been doing it for a while on social media, which she's been aligning herself with a party, as you said, that is anti, anti, anti. This isn't the first act from Nikki Minaj.

So I don't feel sorry for them. If you're a Barb at this point, you're still choosing to support Nikki Minaj no matter what. They are. You are at this point. She is reversed. She is unapologetically herself. She is revealed to you. Let me clarify. Not just because of the an emphasis, because of the entire arc of this, of Nikki Minaj's term. Yes. Yes.

And you're right. Nikki Minaj is very much so entitled to her opinions, to her beliefs, to whatever political party that she wants to align herself with, to whatever movement, to whatever politician. She is totally allowed to do that. My point is, is the contradiction of it all. and how disgusting I feel it is that, to your point, we played that Charlie Kirk clip. That is what Charlie Kirk thought of her.

That is what the T.P. USA movement thinks of her and black women. You saw how J.D. Vance got on stage and talked about Jasmine Crockett. But somehow, Nikki Minaj believes that she's different. What Nikki Minaj did on that stage is allowed people to continue to disparage black women. She allowed them to continue to talk about them in a way that is negative or have certain stereotypes about black women. Black women are not going around condemning little white girls. That is such a lie. But Nikki Minaj is going around condemning other black women and black children. So hatred is okay in our community from you, but then you want to get on there and tell

us not to be hateful, which is not even true. Black women are not going around doing this to little girls. But it's okay for you. She got on there and talked about Nigeria. Do you, do you not realize that this is a movement and an administration that put Nigeria on the ban list. They don't even want Nigerians in this country. Nikki Minaj is extremely problematic and she has been for a very, very long time. So I don't feel sorry. I'm sorry. Nikki Minaj came on the scene 20 something years ago.

She is not the same person that she was. She did. She came on like 2002. For real? Yeah. Like that first sound didn't it drop in 2004? 2009, Nicky. Yes.

Nikki Minaj was around and. when I was in college. No, no, no way. Donnie, can you look that up? She started doing music in like 2002, 2004. Like, she, I remember the verse. Okay, her first big album. Sorry, maybe she was underground then.

Yeah. Okay, fine, 2010. I just signed a chick named Nikki Minaj. That's from Wayne. That's like, 07, whatever. She's like, oh, seven, I'm what, I'm four or five years. My point is it was almost 20 years. Almost 20 years ago.

So if you're still think that Nikki Minaj is the same person, who I understand for all you did a very fantastic breakdown of why Nikki Minaj became so popular and built this cult-like fan base. I understand that. In a very similar way, you know, for maybe for white people when it came to feeling different that Lady Gaga did. I understand that.

I understand that. Okay. I understand that, but that's not who Nikki Minaj is and that's not who she has been. And again, you can say whatever you want. want, but you don't have to put down black women in our community in order to lift up another community. And that's exactly what Nikki Minaj is doing. And that's why she's problematic. And to be very honest, she just don't even make fucking sense. She did not make sense when she was on that

stage. She said things. She got stumbled. She had to pause. They were making, they were speaking for her because it was just all over the place. All over the place. Once again, once again, like, I agree. There's nothing. I'm not saying anything about me. I know, I don't, I don't have, I don't have very of opinion about Nikki Minaj's right return. I don't have opinion about no one's right return anymore. Nobody. I don't care about your right return anymore. There have been too many right returns.

The right return is a retirement policy. That's what it is. The right return is I've dropped every album. I've done every song. People turn right for the same reason that Facebook is into AI. One of the one reason why this AI thing is happening. Because there's no more Facebook customers. Everybody who wants Facebook has Facebook.

There are no more Instagram customers. No more Twitter people. There's no more stuff for these people. Everybody that wants it has it. So the way that you do the thing that you do in the future is you invent a new industry. Either you take people into the metaverse when you're Facebook and you get all people riled up into that. you establish something new or you go to the AI and you take the existing customer base that you have

and you sell them on a new technology that they have to have. That's the only way that you expanded. Apple can kind of game us by making us buy a new phone every year and a half for the goddamn camera on it. But there's nothing new. The reason why you're seeing so many of these people doing so much of this stuff is because they are trying to attract a new demo. That is trying true.

You think that's what Nikki's doing. I think that part of it is Nikki, part of it is that. And part of it is also proximity to something that a lot of people want. Prestige is very important. Where can you go that you will be taken seriously? Where can you go that you feel like you are smart? Okay. Like where can you go?

I mean, when I say taking seriously, I mean, being put on stage at Amphist. Nikki Minaj has done too much to be put on stage at some of these other places. places. But in that situation, they put her on stage for the same reason they put Kid Rock on stage. The same reason they put Dean Kane, they make him an ice agent. You make one of those people feel useful and then you can extract and use whatever celebrity they have left. You can say, hey, Superman's an ice agent. There can't be that much wrong with it. Hey, how bad can we be if the lady who made super bases on stage with us, right? That matters to them because they're grasping. Well, I get why it matters to them. Of course. And for her, for her,

I'm sitting down and being taken seriously in a very serious political movement. Before this, I got to talk at the United Nations. I'm not absolving her for anything or making excuses. What I'm saying is that in all of this stuff, these are calculations that are being made on behalf of one person. What I always think. What I always think. It's about the people. I always think about the ones that went, damn, I'm wearing the pink wig.

I'm roaming for Halloween. I'm also a young LGBTQ plus person that has put myself into this. You're right. She has been problematic for a very long time. And they have stuck with her. We have people that we like

that have been problematic or there are problems surrounding them and we've stuck with them. And we've stuck with them and we don't want to believe the bad things about them and we don't want to talk about them and we get called out

when that type of stuff happens. When that type of stuff happens, I get what you're saying. I just look at people and go, damn, it's hard to put your toys away. It is. It's hard to put them away. Maybe some people won't.

Maybe some people will. I get it. You don't want to believe that somebody that you put so much energy, faith damn near into, would turn out to be this way. I get it. I get it more if it were new.

That's all I'm saying. Yeah, yeah. And I get it more maybe if I wasn't somebody who, like I started off this saying, I don't have much to say because I'm just like, I look at Nikki Minaj at this point as somebody whose opinion does not matter to me. But it does, to your point, to the people sitting in that room as long as she is uplifting them and putting down another community. So I get upset when you are talking about something that, I don't know if endangered is too big of a word, but yeah, when you allow people to think something untrue about me and that can particularly,

particularly be dangerous. Donnie, let's talk about Dave Chappelle. Yeah, he released a new comedy special called The Unstoppable. It was a surprise drop on Netflix after the Jake Paul fight. Jake Paul's loss, which we'll talk about later. Did you guys get to watch the special?

I hadn't had time to catch it yet. I watched it. I watched it. What did you think? The kids here loved it. Jay, who, Jay was a barb, by the way. Keyword being was. Jay, when did you stop being a bar?

Maybe like a couple years ago Stuck around through some of the tough times Well yeah you always initially do Because you're like maybe that was a one-off Maybe they'll apologize But you were right because I grew up Listening to Nikki Nikki was the only like female rapper

Growing up that I mean I was 10 when she first came out With her Pink Friday album So big big fan But yeah I had to I had to throw that one away Damn, tough. But Jade and Bernard, y'all both liked the Dave Chappelle special. Yeah, I liked it.

What did you think, Rachel? Davy Chappelle, D.C.? Well, first off, I thought it was a wonderful surprise after watching such a wonderful fight. I thought, wow, what a way to go from this fight into watching this surprise Dave Chappelle special. It's beautiful. Cheery on top.

I understand, I just want to say this, that Dave Chappelle, some people find him offensive. And I understand he says things that, for the very reason I just said that Nikki Minaj says things to people that make me feel like it endangers my community because it allows people to think a certain way. I totally understand how, and I'm particularly talking about the trans community, I understand how they feel like the rhetoric that,

Dave Chappelle says on stage, makes them feel in danger. This is a new. We've talked about it multiple times. We talked about it before on our podcast where he tells the story about the friend that he lost. I don't believe that that is what he's trying to do. I understand the storytelling that he does with it. But I also can understand how somebody totally feels offended by that. I thought it was a brilliant special.

I don't think anybody tells a story like Dave Chappelle. I think that what he does is so layered. I think that it, I learned something. I can't say that there's a comedian that I watch that I actually learn something about, whether it's political, whether it's historic, whether it's about their personal life, whether it's about a public figure. There's just always something that's so captivating and interesting and so brilliant about what he does on stage. This one in particular more than some of the other ones when he's talking about Jackson. Jackson when he's talking about Charlie Barnett really, really found that fascinating and the way that he brought it back to present day. I thought it was great. You? So Dave basically just doing therapy sessions on stage now. Yeah. Yeah, it was heavy. He had a lot. He had a lot to say. Yeah. Dave, Dave gets to, it seems like to me Dave gets to a critical mass where he's, he's always doing shows and stuff, where he has all these observations. He just gives.

into the world. It's not necessarily comedy anymore. There's not very much that's funny in it, you know. I'm not laughing a lot when I watch it. Dave Chappelle's power to me is partly now based upon reputation. Partly is because if you go back and you look at Dave Chappelle's older stuff, then you're laughing.

I mean, you're laughing. Like you are laughing. Sure, sure. Okay. Now he is one of our most powerful cultural lecturers. One of our most powerful users of the language that helps us re-contextualize what we're in. We'll say this. Talking about Dave Chappelle right after talking about Nikki Minaj is interesting.

Because Dave Chappelle graduated in this special. and I don't know if a lot of people are cognizant of it. In Dave Chappelle's latest trans joke, Dave killed a trans person. And I'm sorry to be the wet blanket for everybody that loved the special. But that's an escalation. It just is what the fuck it is.

In Dave's latest joke, he does the joke. The falcon goes up into the air. No, yeah. The falcon comes down. the Falcon kills the trans lady in the audience. Did it kill her? Kills the trans lady in the audience.

His bitch kills her. Kills the translator in the audience. And because we're in Saudi Arabia, nobody cares. Or whatever, however the joke goes. And you guys can play the joke if you want. So, by the way, by the way, here's a deal. I'm not pearl clutching. I'm not, I'm not pearl clutching.

Maybe I should be. I'm not Pearl Cutching. Dave has groomed me to his style of comedy. And his style of comedy is one that is unsafe. It's not safe. It's also not for everyone. But on the hills of the conversation we just had, what I am trying to say is that we all have people,

that it is difficult for us to be like, banish, banish, banish, go, go. and it's never about the differences that we have with those people. It's about the similarities. And the reality is this. Dave Chappelle reminds you of the smartest, funniest guy that you knew in the town that you're from. The dude that always has something to say that you didn't know that he knew. The dude that was funny without even trying the guy that you just wanted to talk to.

That is why when Dave goes left or when Dave goes right or when Dave goes too far forward, we accept it. We trust and love Dave Chappelle. And when I'm watching what it is that he's doing, I'm seeing a couple of gigantic, fucking contradictions. Number one, the trans stuff, when you joke, just to be real,

when you joke like that, that cavalierly about the death of it, it just makes trans people less safe. It's just a fact. No, yeah. Maybe we're... I totally say. Maybe we're past a cultural conversation of that.

And I'm not, I'm definitely, I'm not pearl clutching. But even the Saudi Arabia stuff, did it fill me up with glee and joy to see Dave Chappelle say fuck Bill Maher? It did. But Dave stood on stage and laundered through his comedy and his charm what are accurate criticisms about him performing in Riyadh. or performing around accurate accurate. When I say accurate, let me not say accurate. Let me say fair criticisms. Now, once again, these criticisms

aren't going to be leveled by me directly because I've watched the boxing of Riyadh. I've seen soccer on and all of that stuff. There is a direct intention by NBS, who is the rural family of Saudi Arabia, to sports wash and entertainment wash

what they got going on and all of that stuff. I'm not here to slap people on a risk about Jamal Khashoggi or do any of that stuff. That's not what I'm here to do. What I am here to do is give what I feel to be is accurate analysis

of one of the most consequential people in culture. And if I'm being accurate about it, Dave stood on the stage and told a lot of intellectual lies said that he is safer to talk his shit in America in Saudi Arabia than he is in America or that you can talk your shit more freely in Saudi Arabia than you can in America.

think he said you can. I think he said he can. Well, which is a difference. Well, but really there's no difference because the criticism in, and you're right, but the criticism is a cultural criticism of America versus Saudi Arabia. I am not in any way about to defend your right to freedom and expression in America is under attack. But then somebody as smart as Dave Chappelle can't defend that in society. Arabia. I don't give a fuck if you're on the stage. Did you feel like he was defending as much as he was like, because this is how I took it.

More than I thought he was defending Saudi Arabia or what he did, I felt like he was pointing out how hypocritical it is for you to tell me how wrong I am when you live in a country that does a lot of wrong as well. Not that it's necessarily the same wrong, right? Because people look at sins in different ways, but I'm just saying wrongdoing's in different ways. But I'm just, or wrongdoings in different ways, but I looked at it as he was calling out the hypocrisy. I'm not saying I agree with them, but that's how I looked at it more than him saying it that way,

the way that you're saying. I want to say something, but I don't want to be offensive. Say it. This is how people get talked out to pussy. When you're saying something that feels like you're making a connection with somebody, but it's for your own gratification.

this is exactly what happens. Like, Dave is standing on the stage after years, years of making jokes about a marginalized endangered community and talking about the freedom of those jokes. And he's right about his freedom to tell jokes. Everybody is right about their freedom to tell jokes. Not just Dave. Andrew is right Jezzelnick is right Rogan is right

Kill Tony Tony Hinchcliff is right All of the people who's comedy and stuff like that That you despise and abhor They're right about their freedom to do their comedy They're right Right So the freedom of expression

And what he can say And how he can say And how important that is And how there shouldn't be Any societal and definitely governmental repercussions for doing that, he gives that whole thing to us for years because he wants to tell these jokes.

Then he talks about how safe he feels telling jokes in Saudi Arabia or how he's much safer. In Saudi Arabia, people have been arrested, arrested and in prison for, criticizing the Crown Prince, advocating for women's rights, questioning religious authorities, retweeting dissidents, for private WhatsApp messages,

anonymous social media accounts, Talking to foreign journalists for advocating for human rights. How is this done in Saudi Arabia? It's done through actual legislation, laws, an anti-terrorism law that defines terrorism so broadly that tweets, satire, or criticism can qualify. A cybercrime law that criminalizes content that harms public order, religious value, or national unity. Royal decrees that allow punishment without transparent judicial standards.

All of that is the way that it goes. I am not standing on high as an American and criticizing Saudi Arabia's country and culture because the way my people have been treated in this country and this country and culture for so long, I can't do that. But what I can say is Dave Chappelle did that for money. Oh, no, he definitely did it for money.

He says it. He says on the stage he did it. So what I think is interesting is that somebody could do something for one reason and then come back to us and then use his talent and his talent and his gift to launder the reason that he did something. And it's not, I'm not offended by it, but I'm like, look at the people swallow this shit.

Oh, this nigga spitting this nigga talking. Dave Chappelle is very, very gifted. Dave Chappelle is very rich. He's enormously talented. And what he did was stand on the stage and in a lot of different ways do the same thing he's always done, which is get his audience to lift their dress up, over their head, over their eyes, and over their ears. And to me, it's cool. It's like, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. It was great. But like, what are we talking about? I just don't, okay, you're not wrong,

but I didn't watch it and think, well, he has a point. He calls himself a capitalist. He talks about buying up a town and makes a joke about people who can't afford to live in it. He talks about when he goes to Saudi Arabia, he is there. He makes a lot of money. He's like, I don't even need Netflix. I wait for them to call me back and I'm going to go. They only used me in the headlines because I made more money than all the other comedians there. He's literally telling you who he is. So it wasn't like, it was pull. It wasn't for me like I watched it and I was like, oh, all that washed away or he pulled the wool over my eyes or anything. I just understood. the comparison that he was making for some people who come down on him.

And I'm not saying that, again, the criticism is fair for all the reasons that you just said, for the laws that exist within Saudi Arabia. Absolutely. I just understood the comparison of the hypocrisy of what he was saying as if people's hands are clean when they're criticizing him. That's all I'm saying I understood. I wasn't like I didn't like, oh my gosh, he's so right. Like he should continue to go to Saudi Arabia.

And I think a lot of people fell that wet. I think it's wrong to say that if they have maybe the same takeaway that I did with that, that they're like, okay, he's okay to go to Saudi Arabia. I don't still necessarily agree with it. But I think that one thing maybe people look past is Dave Chappelle said a lot of things about himself on that stage that are very true, that aren't necessarily something to uplift. Love Dave Chappelle. I thought that this is what I'm saying.

To me, it's easier to get with people calling. By the way, once again, I'm not saying I'm not criticizing anybody that went to React because because you consume it of my own my own hypocrisy I think the specific difference

that people had with this stuff over the boxing and over some of the other stuff that's going on the specific difference is that these are people who say that they live and die for free speech and if they say that they live and die for free speech

why would they go and perform and all that stuff in a place where free speech is literally punishable by death if you're Jamal or Khashoggi, right? Whatever. Once again,

that's for them to do. Like, I'm not, it's fun. It's their thing. Like, comics that I love, Bill Burr did it. There's not a comic I love in the world born in Bill Burr. You know who else I love?

I'm in a white comedy heyday right now. Okay, who else do you like? I like Nate Bargotsi. He's good. I like Sebastian. What the heck? What are you doing? Are you just getting into Sebastian?

So I've watched a couple of Sebastian specials. And the way he talks about his dad is my dad looks at me. He goes, well, you're drinking, you're a little fucked up. Like his dad is fucking with him. My dad used to do that. My dad used to see me and he would know that I was drunk or high. He'd be like, oh shit, okay. Okay, we partying?

He's a nigga drunk. Look at this drunk ass nigger. Come out here and dance. Dance, drunk, nigger. You want to be drunk in front of your whole family? Do a little dance for it. It's like what my dad used to talk to me. But, you know, people doing whatever

they do for their careers, man. We're all working for corporations and all of that stuff and get it like that. But the one thing that I don't like more than anything is a nigga talking to me like I'm stupid. You think that's what he did? Yeah. He talked to everyone up there with his power and who he is. That was a Trumpish, like I'm saying that was a Trumpish up there standing there, leveraging the power and all of that.

Did you feel stupid when you watched it? I never feel stupid. Exactly. But I don't like people talking to me like I am. I felt like he was being very upfront. Yeah, like so to me, like that whole thing is enveloped around. I mean, a lot of the other stuff, though, you know, I know a lot about entertainment and stuff like that. So the Jack Johnson thing knew it.

Charlie Bartle knew it. I'd seen DC Cab a million times know about these guys, know about these people and all of that stuff like that. I learn a lot of stuff from Dave, but the stuff that I learn are more of these brilliant introspections on society and how you actually live in the state of hypocrisy that I talk about the fact that I live in.

But I just, once again, it's hard to give up your toys. And in this situation where he gets up there and talks about all of that stuff, there's a lot of people as we land-based Nicki Minaj or Snoop or we got our people too.

that it don't matter what they say or do it don't matter that we it's the same fucking thing so like when we talk about hypocrisy and all of that I'm not necessarily talking about you right now because this is a Christmas miracle that we're doing this podcast I'm talking about the entire deal it's just about who you let lie to you

it is and Dave is and I'm always going to fuck with Dave but the reality is the joke and we can make sure somebody go pull up the the trans joke but when I saw that I was like

oh anytime he talks about trans people I always am like oh gosh what is this going to do for the very reason I said at the top of the podcast it allows people to laugh at a group of people who are oppressed

and I'm laughing at trans jokes I'm not being purity I'm not being purity I laugh at jokes about trans people. I laugh at jokes about black people. I laugh at jokes about Mexican people. I laugh at these jokes. I'm not in any way, but I'm saying

I'm like... I understand how it's harmful. Every time I'm like, oh gosh, you know, here we go. But I didn't feel like he was talking to people like they were stupid. I felt like he was being insanely honest. Like, I was actually surprised at some of the things that he was saying. Now, if somebody in terms of

it a certain way, like, but I didn't feel like he was talking down to me. I was like, he's literally saying everything. That's just how, but again, you know, I do really like the storytelling. I like that type of comedy. I like when people sit and they just talk to you. Go on a journey. They go on a journey. It was funny to go around his town in Yellow Springs and all of that stuff.

It got to a point where there was a lot of meandering and all of that stuff that was going on. But in order to get to that, to get to the point to where he is, you got to be able to And who am I to criticize somebody meandering? I do it, just not nearly as well as what he does. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable Internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with Internet,

advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. This episode is brought to by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess.

You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer, unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner. Or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those WeatherTech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. you don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. Donnie, what's your opinion of the streets?

They exist. I mean, they're out there. I'm not a part of it. So, yeah, to each is on. Rachel? I mean, I'm with Donnie. I'm not like, obviously not in the streets from the streets. way. But Donnie, lead us into the topic so people could understand what it is we're talking about.

Yeah, this came from 21 Savage. He, uh, tweeted at Gunna and Young Thug, trying to, uh, broker peace between the two former friends. His tweet says, I mean, this is a long as run on since. Hold on. No punctuation. Y'all niggas fix that shit. Y'all love each other, nigga. You knew Gunna wasn't no gangster, but when he told the first time and we swept it under the rug for you, you know he wasn't trying to leave you to hang, nigga, fuck the streets. We ain't get shit out. We ain't get shit but trauma from that shit. There we go.

And then Young Thug replied to this, fuck the streets. So it had the social media's in a frenzy and whatnot over the weekend. So 21 Savage was on a live with someone and he said, I didn't mean fuck the streets. I meant save the streets. he's like I shouldn't have said it that way maybe I said it too fast but I meant save the streets

does knowing that change your opinion I don't even know where you stand when it comes to this because a lot of people there were a lot of people who supported 21 G Herbo came out and said fuck the streets Meek Mills

Meek Mills said fuck the streets Yeah and then there were other people who were very upset Bootsie Queens Flip 5-04 and came out and talked about why you can't say, fuck the streets, why you didn't say what the streets. Yeah, yeah. And a lot of that criticism was like, all right, well, if that's how you feel, then you need to stop rapping about the streets. But I understood some of the things that I saw 21

Savage and, like, in regards to the album, what happened to the streets and all of that, where he was talking about how, you know, he has lost a lot of people to a certain mentality. And he understands that the streets, it's more than, it's not just about being in the streets. It's about the culture. It's about the community. And he wants, in essence, to save it. Right. And where people don't die at the hands of some of this mentality when it comes to beefs, when it comes to drugs, when it comes to whatever it may be,

he's like, we should, it should be better than that. So if that's how he feels, then I understand it. But again, who am I? I'm not no street nigger. Who am I? I grew up in Baton Rouge where if you throw a rock,

you hit like five street niggas. They're all in your family, your street dudes and all of that stuff. They're around you. And it's funny, I never heard of all the street guys that I know that have grew up with, been around. I have never heard how awesome the streets were from a street dude.

The people that told me how awesome the streets were were these rappers. Yeah. But the only thing I ever heard is don't play around. Don't mess around with this. Man, I do. I'm not going to mention his name. He passed on now. It's killed before I even left Baton Rouge.

Used to ride to school together. And he had a 380. And it was funny because we would shoot the 380 and the 380 would jam. And in order to clear the jam, you'd have to take the gun and throw it on the ground to clear the jam. And then we'd pick it up and we'd be shooting it again. I finger-press all over the goddamn gun. What the hell was going on, man? Sorry, Dad.

but my dad loved this guy he would come he would bring me to school and my dad would give him a couple dollars every now and again hey man I appreciate you picking up van and taking him to school my dad would leave my man would be like hey van man bro you're a cool ass nigga bro you're a cool ass nigga bro you're a cool ass nigga I don't want to see you doing

no dirt and I forget this dude in particular I saw him I showed him the dogs the hunt dogs that we had and he looked at the dolls I remember him staring in front of the dog standing in front of the dog pen looking at the dogs. He was like, man, what y'all do with him?

I was like, yeah, we hunt rabbits with him. He's like, you hunt rabbits with the dogs? He said, yeah. He was like, that one right there looked like Snoopy. And I was like, yeah, man, Snoopy. Snoopy a beagle. These are beagles. Like, these are beagles.

Snoopy is a beagle. Like, he's dumb. Like, I didn't say that. But he goes, eh, look like beagle. He goes, man, I ain't going to lie, bro. You want to, you want to cool this niggas around here, bro. It's like, you got to. dogs, you got your dad. He's like, man, I don't want to catch you doing no dirt, bro.

Like, I don't, I don't, like, I don't want to catch you doing no dirt. So, like, the guys that were around me, the street niggas that were around me, they never were like, hey, the most awesome thing in the world is getting arrested. It's awesome. Like, the most awesome thing, they, they believed in what they did. They committed to what they did. But the people that was telling that I heard, if you ain't a thug, you ain't. shit. The people that I heard that if you ain't getting money, you ain't shit, that was from these rappers. They're the ones to me that mainline the idea that you had to have a certain ethos or mentality to fit into something. That's why I heard that from. I never, ever visited

someone in prison that told me, hey, you know what? This is where you want to be. So from the street guys that I talked about that I knew, it was kind of always fucked the streets. there were some people that I knew, obviously, that liked to hurt people. And there were some people that I knew, obviously, that kind of, they was getting money and they liked to get it, right? But at the same time, it wasn't, I wasn't around a lot of people that was like, hey, man, you know what you need to do? You need to come over here and get some of this. These were dudes that got caught up into a situation. They were a part of that situation.

It was what was available to them. the same way you see a lot of NBA guys, their sons are now NBA players. If this is what the cultural business is, you get involved in it. But when I hear this, this is like par for the course for me. This is what I remember.

So if we having to fuck the streets conversation, hip hop needs to have that conversation with that. Hip hop needs to have a conversation about what it is that we put on Front Street and made it seem like Not that it was a part of life because the streets and the community that reflects those streets are a part of life. This is why it's difficult for me

to identify with a mentality that just throws away people who made mistakes. My grandmother didn't do that. She didn't throw away her sons. Like the people that I know in my community, we never did that. We never saw you get in trouble for doing something and then just throw you away.

We kept your room. the same while you was gone. And then you came home. We wanted you to be comfortable. We believed, we hoped. We prayed for you while you were doing the things that you were doing. So if that's the streets, I get it. If that's a part of it, I get it. But like as far as all of this other stuff, making young men feel like they got to go out and do something or live up to something because of all of that, that shit comes from you rappers and you rappers need to deal with that.

I think like a lot of people, not a lot of people, but some of the people who were offended, it felt like they were, when he said it, they felt it personal like he's saying, fuck me. And he goes on to explain, it's not that. And I think that we, hip hop has to have a conversation

where it's okay to call out some problematic mentalities in order to save people, which is what I believe that he was trying to do. And I find it interesting too, because you're so right about when you talk about people who don't, you know, I'm not saying, I think we all know I'm not from the streets,

but it doesn't mean that I haven't been around certain people, and you're right, I haven't heard anybody glorify it in that way, particularly family members that have gotten in trouble that I've been around or that they've come back out and I've been around and all of that and hear them talk about it. But the people who are getting upset,

you leave when you don't stay in the streets, right? You might be from the streets. The people who are taking it literally, right? And are not understanding what I really believe 21 Savage is trying to say. you're from the streets, but you're still not in the streets. You leave it. You go, you leave it. You move out the neighborhood.

You go on. You do other things. And you might talk about your experience or where you're from, but you better yourself and you don't stay in that mentality. So how do you not understand what it is that 21 Savage is trying to say? It's like you move on from that space. But then you get mad at him for saying, I'm just trying to promote peace, protection, a better life that we don't need to adhere to a certain code just to say that we're adhering to it we need to protect our young people that's why you leave or you and you or you give money and you pour

back into the community but you don't stay in that place well look so i did my research on this i had a conversation with some of my street homies that are some of them uh are in car incarcerated right now. And some of them, you know, wearing the scars. And this has always been my problem with the streets. Is the success rate ain't high enough? For people in the streets. Look, my problem with the streets, the entire lifestyle,

is that the success rate ain't high enough. I'm too, I look at it and I'm like, well, I mean, if you can show me an abundance of people who have done it, and then on the other side of it, families, businesses, all of that stuff, then whatever. But if you can't, then I'm like,

no. Now, once again, and we have to continue to reiterate this, human beings are the result of choice matrices. Give you an example of that. The choice between doctor and lawyer is a lot different between the choice between,

doctor and drug dealer. If the, the choice between doctor and lawyer, those are two very comparable lifestyles. Like, it's really more of a choice of how you want to work, what you want to contribute, right? If you're going to be a doctor, then it's like, I want to save people. I want to do all of this stuff like that. You know, I want to drain people's money through unfair and corrupt health care system. But you're a doctor. You're helping people.

If you're a lawyer, then, you know, I want to work. In this way, I want to use law. I want to experience law. I want to gain. Whatever, whatever. But doctor and drug dealer? Lawyer and drug dealer? There's a gulf.

It's a completely different. It's two totally different lifestyles. One involves most of the time. Incredible longevity, building all of that. The other one is a constant battle for your freedom, your safety, and who you are. It's a totally different thing. So the choice matrix for people is not doctor versus lawyer. When you have to make a choice between doctor and drug dealer or drug dealer and guy that works at the car wash, these choice matrices is what create these outcomes, right?

The streets create the streets. It's like you walk by the lake. I've said this before. You walk by the lake, see a fish turned up in the lake. You go, what's wrong with that fish? You walk by the lake, you see a thousand fish turned up in the lake, you go, what's wrong with the lake? Our lakes are polluted. Our lakes are the streets, and we got to fix that.

But part of fixing it is realizing that we have been given a weirdly glorified, kind of sanitized, and definitely shiny version of all of this. this cultural omerta that exists not even the Italian mobsters could keep their omerta we're talking about who's snitching we're talking about who's snitching right now all this conversation over Hugh snitching this Sicilian omerta that existed

when it came over from Italy here to America was to protect the structure of organized crime the government beat them the government said hey you know what cool you guys aren't going to talk nice Well, this is what we'll do.

We'll write a law that says if you're involved in this at all, then you're responsible for everything that goes on. They started flipping immediately. Took about 10 years. The Rico comes in 71. By the time we get to the 80s, the Gambino Underboss is talking to the feds. They started flipping immediately. This is not a lot of people that you're going to say,

hey, I'm going to do a hundred years in prison for some bullshit that I did on behalf of somebody else. So all of that's a lie. But do you know how you make people believe this the most important thing in the world? You put it in culture. You're rapping in something. You put a beat behind it.

Now you've got to have this. Now you've got to do this. Now the materialism and the capitalism and all of that stuff. All of this stuff, man, is part of this grand societal brainwashing. And it's not that they're doing it on purpose. Once again, they are like products of something that is familiar to them.

They're products of something that's familiar to them. They're proud that they survived. Anybody. But that's fine to talk about, right? You survived it. This is your life. This is how you grew up. But guess what?

You don't live that life anymore. You didn't want to stay in that life. So why do you not understand what somebody like 21 Savage? just trying to say. And that's why he has clarified. I meant save it. I'm not saying fuck the people. I'm saying fuck the mentality.

And we should all get behind that. Well, this is what I'm saying. I can't say fuck it. Like, I'm not in a place to like, I don't talk about street shit. I don't talk about street shit. Y'all don't hear us on here talking about who snitched and who did all of that stuff.

Like, you, the thing is, if you were growing up in proximity to that, you have to have respect for it. But the reason why you have respect for it is the same reason that if you live in the Sarangeti, you have to have respect for the lion because the lion will kill you. I was supposed to say exactly.

So you have to have respect for it. You don't play around in it. You don't dis it. You try to stay out of it. And if need be, just like the lion, you run from it. But what I will say is the streets being what they are,

we need to go in and have conversations about how we give these brothers and sisters bearer choices. But at the same time, we also need to have conversations about what has been done to make some people who have no business fucking around

in this shit like this think that is cool to do it. And we also need to have conversations about how some of us get programmed, like I've been programmed in different ways, to do stuff that's at cross-purposes

without long-term survival. Even what you're saying. These guys don't fuck around in the street. they kind of do. Because when you think about these rappers and all of these guys, think about what Thug was just going through. Think about why we're having this conversation.

We're having this conversation because Thug, who became, who beat the odds in almost every way to become one of the defining hip-hop acts of his generation was still fucking around. He was, yeah. You want me to, I can give you a listener

of not just guys, that were fucking around, but guys that are finito gone. Well, yeah. But continuing to fuck around. That's his message. I'm calling out, I guess, like, I'm really talking about Busy and all of this. But, like, I guess I'm just, I'm not, I'm saying that there are rappers. Just like you can give a list of rappers that are still in the streets are no longer

with us, which is the point I think the 21 is trying to make, because he specifically calls out Gunna and the young thug in a tweet. I'm saying that there are rappers who have, like, look at some of the OGs, they're not there anymore. They're not in it. Like they move on even though they came from the streets. Yeah. Some of them do. And that's what, and I think the older you get, the more, but we also got older guys in this game. Let's, let's be real, that's still selling that street lifestyle or something that we

should look up to. So look, I'm not telling people to, I'm telling people that the way I look at life is I don't live my life in judgment. I don't live my life in judgment of stuff for people. but I do live my life in analysis and judgment and analysis two different things like analyze whether or not you think something's going to work for you

and if somebody tells you something that's going to lead to you being in a specific situation is cool then analyze them so you come to me and you tell me right now I'm going to tell you straight up I'm going to tell you straight up that working

at a call center is better than doing something that's going to end up having your mama come visit you behind bars and you crying, her crying. I'm going to tell you that you have so many opportunities in life other than something that's going to be debilitating to you and to your family that's going to have you working behind bars for somebody who designed society to put you there. I'm not blaming you for the choices that you're, that you're, that you're, that you're, that you're, you're giving that in front of you. I'm saying let's work together. Work with me. And don't believe what these niggas put, because these

niggas is rich. And talking about that guy. Exactly. That's that part too. What else we got? Oh, Jake Paul. Yeah, let's do that. We hinted at it earlier, the Netflix fight. Anthony Joshua fought Jake Paul on Netflix, gave him a decisive win. I know y'all watched the fight. What were y'all thoughts on seeing Jake Paul take that loss? I was watching Anthony Joshua. Yeah, this is a thing. I was not familiar with Anthony Joshua or his game.

I wasn't. I did not know. I'm not in the boxing, right? And he's not even from here. But man, from the moment he walked out, I said, oh, my God. This is so funny to me. Who is this beautiful specimen? I mean, everything about him.

Now, of course, I'm not a fan of the Paul's. So I was already just rooting for it. I was like, please let him get knocked out. I was so happy to see him actually fighting somebody of a that wasn't in their 50s that was he was also bigger than him. He had a longer reach than him. Like I just, he was all outsized, decent age. How does Jake Paul? Like mid to late 20s, I think.

Oh, he's not even 30 yet. I don't think he is. He might be. And I think Josh was what, like 37, 30? I don't know, somewhere around now. I think Josh was like 35, 36. Okay. So somebody closer to him in age.

I was happy to see a. not just a better matchup. Not just a better matchup, but just a matchup where the odds were against Jake Paul more than we've seen him doing some of these other celebrity matchups. Not everybody Jake Paul is like that, but it was nice to see that. So I was there. But I was really just there and stayed for Anthony Joshua. I'm sorry, I went down a dark hole. I looked at his Instagram.

I was like, who is this man? It's just shocking what's out there and you just have no idea. This is so funny to me. So big boxing fan, right? So if you are a boxing fan, and I love the horniness of black ladies. I think all the ladies. When black women are horny, it is like nothing else.

I love watching black women who have been told to suppress their sexuality get horny. They're in their seats that's slipping around, all of that stuff. I like to see that. It's interesting in this case because Anthony Joshua was at the end of his career. Like, all of the boxing fans have watched Anthony Joshua on his rise when he has this epic fight with Vladimir Klitschko back in the day, captures, you know, heavyweight championship. He captured it before then, but he has this epic fight with Vladimir Klitsko. He loses to Andy Ruiz. He comes back and he beats Andy Ruiz.

He then fights Alexander Usik twice, loses twice. then he gets knocked out by Dillon White. We've watched AJ become some. AJ, that's his nickname. We've watched AJ become somewhat of a feeble figure in boxing. Like, AJ's got a weak chin, they say. They say AJ's got a weak mentality. But like, it shows you how niche of a sport boxing is now.

Because the one thing that people see when they see Anthony Joshua is, God damn, this nigga look crazy. buff, handsome, this is a reason why he is such a big star in the UK. And I think about it now, the fact that black women responded like this to this means that they had never seen Anthony Joshua. This means one thing. What? Jake Paul is the biggest star in boxing.

Okay. I know who other boxers are. No, no, like the fact that... The men don't even live in this country. Hold on, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. The fact that... So many people did not know who the heavyweight champion of the world was or former two-time heavyweight champion of the world that's this sexy and this brawick and all of that.

The fact that they didn't know who this person was until he fought Jake Paul. Tells you that Jake Paul is the biggest star in boxing. Didn't you just say that boxing is a niche sport? Well, what I'm saying is that like, but you're watching Jake Paul fight. I watched it because I wanted to see him get his ass knocked out. But this is the thing I don't know Jake Paul because he is a boxer I know Jake Paul because he was an influencer

Can I say again? So it's not that he's... I did not say that Jake Paul is the biggest boxer or the biggest boxing star. I said very directly that Jake Paul is the biggest star in boxing. Is that how you just said it? That's exactly what I said.

I thought you just said he's the biggest boxer. Did he not? Bernard. You literally said he's the biggest. boxer in the world. You said this means one thing to me. Jake Paul is the biggest boxer in the world. And now you're saying he's the

biggest star. So which one? So let me tell you out something right now. This is going to prove what my mental acuity is. I'm almost certain I said that Jake Paul is the biggest star in boxing. But we won't know until we get the opportunity

to run the tape back. I'm almost certain that I said Jake Paul is the biggest star in boxing. heard you say. Donnie, what did I say? We got to run it back. I'm confused. I don't remember.

I don't know. Jake Paul is the biggest star in boxing. The point you're making is, and I guess I heard you say he's the biggest boxer in the world. Or if you said he's the biggest star in boxing, to me that means the biggest, the, he's the most known boxer, right? But he, that's the point you're making, right? Do you know what makes a boxing star to me, a big star in boxing?

is the ability to make another one. When did Floyd Mayweather, Jr. become the A side of all of his fights? Floyd Mayweather Jr., do you know when? When he fought? I give you so much credit. No, no, no, wait, hold on. Mani, Pacquiao.

No, that's way after that. So, let me tell you when Floyd became the A side. So Floyd was coming up through the ranks. Boom, boom, boom. Floyd fought Oscar de La Jolla. Okay. And when Floyd fought Oscar de La Jolla, it was kind of like the fight to save boxing

and all of that stuff like that. But when Floyd fought Oscar de La Jolla, so many more people saw Floyd in that fight because they were there to see who was the biggest star in boxing, even though he wasn't the best boxer in the world, a cash cow and Oscar de La Jolla.

Oscar de La Jolla, to everybody beyond regular boxing fans, kind of broke Floyd Mayweather to the overall cultural landscape. And then for the rest of the time, Floyd's not an A side. He was the B side in the Oscar De La Jolla fight. But I'm watching so many people. And part of that is because it's on Netflix. Yeah. And it's free and you don't have to buy it, right? For sure. But part of that's because

it on Netflix. But part of the reason why Jake Paul can carry a Netflix fight is because he's Jake Paul. So Jake Paul, to your point earlier, you wanted to see him get his ass kicked. that's part of the equation with any boxer. With any boxer, part of the equation is the outcome of the fight being consequential. You go there to see them win, you go there to see them lose. So with this, the fact that Jake Paul was able to make himself reviled and make himself into this figure that everybody hates, and then get all types of people to watch a fight that they wouldn't have otherwise watched.

You don't even know who Anthony Joshua was. He is the one guy in the sport right now, love it or hate it, that can actually draw people who don't give a fuck about boxes. Because this guy has been fine for fucking 10, 50 years. So to be clear, I didn't sit down and say, I'm about to watch this fight because I want to see Jake Paul get his ass beat. Somebody else was watching the fight. And I walked in and I said, who is that?

And I stayed for Anthony Joshua. Every, and I heard. Because otherwise I could have just gotten that he got his ass knocked out on social media. I would have been like, I don't, I don't, I don't care about him, him getting beat that much to where I'm going to sit down and watch it. But once I saw Anthony Joshua,

I mean, like, I'm saying this now, but I was like, oh, yeah, let me say, let me go ahead and stay and watch this time. But that's my thing. And when I thought about that, I thought about the fact that Eddie Hearn, who is Anthony Joshua's, yeah, yeah.

His manager, his promoter, a matchroom. See, I know that now. Like, Eddie Huron. But see, all of these people, like, that tells me that,

there is still, that number one, Netflix is going to be really good for boxing, number one, because there are some things that have changed in sport in terms of like how many streaming services you have to have, you have to buy all the fights, so how are people going to really see Anthony Joshua if they had to buy his fights?

He wasn't, whatever, whatever. But also, there wasn't, he hadn't penetrated American culture. And now there's a lot of black lady that want him to penetrate American culture really, really deeply. And for a long, time. So like, so when I'm

I saw that and last thing I said, just about the fight itself, man, look, I'm not just a guy who watches and loves boxing. I'm a guy who gets inside of the ring and gets punched. I say this every single time. That was not a really competitive fight.

Jake ran around a lot, but Jake Paul got in the room. He wrestled a lot. He wrestled a lot. He didn't seem pristinely conditioned for it. He made a shit ton of money. You guys. Jake Paul got in the ring with a two-time heavyweight champion

in the world at 6-6-245. That's fucking suicide. Yeah. And like the... He's nuts. The reality is, if you have spent 90 seconds in a ring of any sort, you just respect when people do it.

Phil put me in with this big guy. I told this story, Rosvon. Rosvon was in there fucking me up. Like a 6'7 guy was fighting Luis Ortiz that Saturday. Rosh Vines in there fucking me up. I'm doing my best.

I went six rounds with him. I get out. Yeah. We had a sparring session. Six rounds. He was fucking me up. Man, I get out the ring and the rest of the pros are like, the gym is clapping. Because they respect the fact that you are willing to get in the ring because so many

people talk shit about everything that goes on and they just wouldn't do it. Yeah. I mean, $92 million is what I'm told. Jake was where I believe I was. So that would motivate me a lot. what did you think about the way in? When he put his dick towards Anthony Joshua? When he walked up like a gorilla.

I mean, he is what it is. It's like if I was bashful about boxing and racism being used to promote fights, I couldn't be a fan of the sport. I don't know as much about it to say all of that. Floor used to come out in a sombrero because he would fight on single DiMio. Floor used to come out in sombrero. It was like if like there's a fighter right now, Tiafimo Lopez, fantastic fighter, openly racist, like says.

But boxing, wrestling, all of that. Boxing is essentially a race war. I went to a house one time. My friend Angelica, her brothers, everybody was cool. And Bonar Hopkins was fighting Oscar Delahoya, another. So, Barnar Hopkins is fighting Oscar Delahua. I'm in a home full of Mexicans. Loved him.

So great. and I'm in there and Bhop is getting off on Oscar Delaware. Ended up knocking them out. I'm in there. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm looking around.

I'm like, why ain't nobody cheering for Bhop, man? What's going on? And then they go, man, you're in the Mexican house. Boxing fans. They want to see the Mexican guy win. And I took offense to that.

You took offense to it? Yeah, I started chilling for Bhop people more. I mean, I think black people rule for the black person, for sure. We all root for the people, but all I'm saying is like, that's a part of it. So I'm not saying I excuse Jake Paul for any of the stuff that Jake Paul did, but or Jake Paul does or whatever, but I am desensitized to race being used in boxing. I'm not as familiar, which I'm sure there are a lot of people listening.

So when I saw it, I was like, oh my God. Fuck you, nigga. Yeah, you was like, fuck you. Like usually, I guess I didn't think about it the way. Like, I'm always going to root for the black person, but I guess I thought when I see country versus country, I know that there's that whole thing and I've seen that in fights when I've watched bigger fights but you know, you're putting me up on game

when it comes to boxing but man. I'm not saying that people have to... I hope you don't retire. Nah, he's going to stay around and fight now. I hope you do something that's forward-facing. I don't think he's going to retire now. I think he made the 92 mil. Maybe he will.

He wants to fight. I want to see if you guys would pay for the Joshua fight. Who did he replace? Tyson Fury. Who is supposed to? Devonta Tank Davis Thank you to that man Because if he hadn't

If he had I mean I wouldn't know Anthony See It's the whole thing Anthony Joshua man Anthony Joshua's had a career I'm gonna I'm gonna none about that

weak chin shit or anything I care about what I saw I'm telling you This is the thing And a lot of the sisters are on this Anthony got to lean into this I want to see Anthony On the what's the show

On the Jennifer Hudson show I want to see him dance down the thing. I wonder what he's, I wonder what he's, I tried to look to see if, you know, I could see what he's into.

Talking about women-wise? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I don't think, I don't think it is, he's a Nigerian brother. What does that mean? I'm just saying that, I'm just giving you more information.

I'm not saying that he means anything. I knew he was Nigerian. I told you, I went down, I know that. He's a Nigerian brother. He's a Nigerian brother. He had a tough upbringing, and he ended up winning an Olympic medal

after not having box for too long. He had an amateur background, a whole nine. went through the whole thing I think it was what 2012 he yeah he had see

but Anthony Joshua he also had like he's the biggest fighter it was the biggest fighter in England for a long time I'm not paying attention

of what's happening across the pot you want me to look stupid why I'll be like this you can't control yourself in front of some fine shit he might be the finest man

we had on this podcast okay give me a list of to you give me a list to you of the finest guys that we've had on the podcast. I don't know. I've been, I don't know.

Rachel, I need you to get. Can I bring it? Can I bring it to the next show? I'll close the, I got to think about it. Does anybody step, does anyone stick out that we've had on this podcast that you were like, oh, he looked good?

You said one guy looked good. Who? After he left the pot, I don't know if we left it in or if we took it took out the pot. You said one guy looked good. Just say it. TK. Kirkland.

Oh, I do think he's attractive. Yeah. Extremely problematic. But he's, I think he's attractive. I think I said that on the podcast. So I said. You said that on the podcast. So can you think of anybody else that you think has looked good or been super fine,

fine-ass nigger? I'm so bad with names. Who's the guy in Ann? What's his name? Oh, Tyreek. Tyreek with us. Okay, you got a little bit of a color thing. A spectrum.

You got a little bit of a color thing. Well, TK. Not. TK. TK. Dark as shit. No, I said a spectrum. A whole color spectrum.

Yeah. You like the entire. All right, look, we want to get Anthony on the pod. Match room boxing. Eddie Herman. No, no, no, no. In person. In person.

Well, he got to be in America. Yeah. I mean, we could have got to Zoom. I want to be clear. So, Joshua, so Anthony Joshua, this is the type of controversy that we like. You have a audience. This is the type of controversy that we like.

Anthony Joshua called Eddie Chambers a disgrace to the superior black race. Who? Who did he call that? Eddie Chambers. Fast Eddie Chambers, another boxing. To the superior? To the superior black race. So the way you read that is he's saying

black people are superior. I got that part. And Eddie Chambers is disgrace to that. I like Fast Eddie, you know. And he also, one more thing about Joshua for all the black sisters out there, black sisters. They're all white sisters.

Yeah, I'm just saying, there were a lot of, all the women went to him. In 2020, Joshua gave a speech at a Black Lives Matter protests in Woffer where he said, show them where it hurts, abstain from spending your money in their shops and economies, and invest in black-owned businesses. Anthony Joshua said that.

This is your perfect guy. This is your perfect guy, Anthony fucking Joshua. I'm with it. I'm glad you guys are a part of it. I'm glad you guys have seen a lot. I'm happy to be here. I'm happy to be here. Who else?

Timothy Shalame, you wanted to... No, I just thought of you. It's almost as if you spoke this into existence. I'm sure it was worth... I mean, Timothy Shalame, I've seen Marty Supreme yet, have you? I have. How'd you like it? It's good.

Okay. He's out here, he's promoting his album in all kinds of ways. Right either before, after you did your game, I think I saw him on Drusky's... With Drusky. ...thing. And so he's doing his thing there, Marty Supreme. And I thought about the game and I thought, okay, like this could add to the number count. But then he dropped a video.

Yeah, it's tough. And it had a lot of people talking. So you've always had this whole thing about Timothy Chalamey where you say he's right there. Right on the edge. He's right on the edge. Has he crossed over? Not yet. What does he need to do to cross over?

Because there are a lot of people who are talking about this. They're like, people are calling him a wigger. They're saying that he became that in like who. who becomes that at the age of 29. But he didn't though. But he didn't, exactly. Like he's all, like there's performances of him dancing or rapping as a kid and like doing all this stuff,

whether, I don't know what it was on, but there's video of it. So he's like always, like, when I saw the video, I'm like, oh, okay, this is what he was doing before. It's like people met him as an actor, then some of this stuff came out. I think they did a good job of pushing the acting side first, but like this is kind of who he's always been as well.

What's gonna take him over the edge for you? Some type of controversy. So let me tell you, first of all, we said that his number was 2718. His number is 5,000. I knew you were going to change the number. It goes up. Why? Because the video, man.

Okay. The video wasn't just rap. Because if he would have done some kind of, by the way, just let you know all of these calls are spam likely. I don't know what the fuck is going on. But if he'd have done something that was like, you know, you do stuff, you rap, you come out. Let's say that he would have gone on sway. shout out to sway oh i want to say some about sway real quick sway and keen tech did an event

last week or a couple of weeks ago called for the culture where was it it was at the regent theater downtown okay say something about this event i did not stay the whole time because it's on sunday night i'd like to be here early for the podcast the the event was about hip-hop culture if you could take what was inside the regent theater at that event and export it to the world

you'd save the whole world every single color of people was represented every single age of people was represented it was an event that celebrated hip hop which is this grand cultural

experiment where people get so into the thing that they do breaking rapping scratching all of that the people that they highlighted and honored is everybody in that room

it was so much love and I was when I was in there for the time that I was in there I just thought about the fact that when you leave that room you leave all of that love and that's kind of what any type of real cultural experience really is I thought that was great I thought seeing people up there

they showed them in their prime and everything that they were doing not that they're out of their primes now and then they got to come up there and do their thing for a little bit it was beautiful it's very beautiful but if he would have gone on like sway shit and like wrapped. It's like, okay, cool.

But this nigga did a full drill video. Drilled out, bandana on the head, maybe had the Avericks on the whole fucking nine. All right, that's very close. I thought this, when I saw the video, I thought this might have pushed him over for you. What's going to push him over, I feel like it's something,

it's a little bit more dangerous. Because right now, even with everything that he's doing, he's still in the territory of the white boy that we let come with us we'd be going to do something to be a white boy hey can I ride with y'all he can ride he's harmless you know maybe he's in the back that master peak ghetto dope come on and you're like hey calm down nigga calm down but he still can ride but there's a time when that white boy does something that he can't ride no more and that thing is normally when he pisses somebody off you're not going to do it just by what timothy salome is doing right now

now, which is getting to a corny level. The cornyness is not enough, and it's getting corny. It's just getting corny. It's getting corny. It's getting, the Druski thing was great. The video was as corny to me as it was when he went on stage. I believe he was in Brazil and started hitting the soldier boys. See, I like that.

See, I thought that was kind of corny. But I like that because that's of his generation. That's something that meant something to him. But see, here's a deal. But there? Do it there? But here's a deal, though. The fact that you have something that you think is.

corny and I have something that I think is corny and they're not the same thing. The video is corny. That type of shit is corny. Like, and it's not the same thing. Then that to me shows that they're just like people that's picking out of the corny thing. Now, the movie is still good. He's still a fantastic actor. And let him go out there and experiment with it. He's not bothering me. But in light of the game, I thought of you. 5,000. 5,000 for Timmy now. It went up.

Oh, okay. People thought you were a little too low on the numbers. Oh, which numbers? Which one? I put it out on TikTok. And they were really, thought they were like Mark Wahlberg says it in his dreams. Yeah, that's true. Like they gave him well over six figures. Six figures?

Mm-hmm. I can see that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Donnie just put something in the in the document. Joshua has been linked to Bella Hadid, Kara Delavine, and Maya Jama.

Well, I don't know who that is. And the host of Love Island Games. You know what that is? Love Island Games. There's a theme there. He was also linked to Rita ORA. Damn. She's married, so. Yeah, so Bella Hadig,

Kara Delavine, and Maya Jama. So, you know, it is what it is. Damn, there's a thing there. I was hoping, I was hoping Maya was at least black.

Is Maya not black? She's not. Oh, she's biracial. She's biracial. Wait. Yeah, her father is,

um, yeah. Yeah. So, that don't matter he can come home too he can come home too yeah that can come home to yeah he can come home to that he can come home to but man who would you like to see him matched up with isn't it obvious okay it is obvious i like this i like this i like this um we got anything else i don't think we got anything else i don't think we have anything else i think donnie's putting

something in the document right now what are you typing out or is that jade donnie's typing something Jade's typing something. What's going on, guys? I think we're done. Are y'all adding stuff to the show? We can add stuff to the show if y'all want. Donnie, what are you about to... I think we're good.

No, that's Jay. She's just making notes. You know what's happening. We're turning that corner. We're at hour two. The van Lathen corner? We're turning the Van Lathen corner. We're at hour two, which several people remind me that when we hop in an hour two,

Joshua comes out. Josh? Joshua. Joshua comes out. Y'all don't know what Joshua has cost me, man, a lot in life. Oh, look, okay, so look, it's Christmas. Y'all are getting this. We're not doing an episode for Christmas.

I do want to say that I want to talk about, not reflect on a year, but from our Christmas family to you guys, we really appreciate the insane growth that higher learning has been on. Okay, we're on a good trajectory. And we're ramping up even more for next year. So everybody that listens to a podcast. We appreciate you, but we also want you guys to know that you're failing. We want you to do a better job. Send the podcast to somebody.

Clip a piece of the podcast. It can't just be Keith Edwards. That is clipping us. All right. Keith, the user of black people Edwards. It can't just be, that's Trumpian.

That's what Trump do. That's your boy. Trump is the one, Keith. Trump is the one that takes an artist's song and then uses it in an ICE video. I'm happy that you're getting in now. Keith, you got to come, you got to come talk to us, Keith.

You got to talk to us. You got to talk to me. I got to talk to Rachel. Well, actually, really, he doesn't even need to talk to me. Oh, he would love to. He's going to be saying, ain't that right, Van.

Ain't that right, Van. He's going to be, ain't that right in me? I hate that right. He's right there. I hate that right. Well, that ain't that right. Well, that's kind of what he's doing

when he posts. Black woman says something. He says, ain't that right. Here's a Van Lathan clip. But y'all can't make me. I got to say what I got to see on the podcast. Oh, you can.

Yeah. But you, if anything, we know, you don't talk in clips. Yeah, talking 30 minutes. So. Yeah. So. Get your boy. So when Keith comes, pause.

When Keith comes, double pause, it will, on the show will, want me to stay out of it? I could just referee between you and Keith. Because I think you're going to have to, he's going to say, like, he used your clip for this purpose. I think you're going to, you have to. It's not just me versus Keith. It's, you know, it's you and Keith versus me. Keith. We appreciate you, Keith.

We appreciate you spreading the word about how I learned. The rest of y'all need to do better. My life has been so good since I've been off the Reddit. But shout out to the Reddit. All right, shout out to everyone. This is nothing to do with the Reddit, but yes, yes. Shout out to everybody that's consuming the show. Shout out to everybody that's on threads.

And shout out to everyone. Before we go, I want you guys to have a great time with your families. Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanza, all of that. Shout out to everyone who is trying their best to be somebody's light and joy in the holiday season. There's somebody who wants to see you. There's somebody who wants to hang around with you, drink eggnog with you and all of that stuff.

Just be the reason that somebody smiles because there's a lot of shit going on. A lot. All right. Take your thinking caps off, but do not stop learning. I'm Van Lathin Jr. I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Bye, guys.