Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Jemele Hill on the Malika Andrews Discourse. Plus, Rachel Dolezal’s OnlyFans Leak

Episode Date: September 30, 2022

Van and Rachel welcome Jemele Hill, journalist and host of ‘Jemele Hill Is Unbothered,’ to discuss the online backlash aimed at Malika Andrews amid the Ime Udoka news (9:31). Plus, a discussion of Hurricane Ian’s impact on Florida (35:56), the life and career of Coolio (42:07), and Rachel Dolezal’s OnlyFans leak (1:12:33). Hosts: Van Lathan Jr. and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Jemele Hill Producer: Donnie Beacham Jr. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Higher learning is on. It is I, Van Lytton, Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. Rachel, I'm fired up. I know. You are, what happened?

You having a good day? I'm happy for you. Let me tell you why I'm fired up. Okay. In a good or a bad way? In a good way. Okay. Let me tell you why I'm fired up.

So I'm here at the Conrad Hotel. Oh, I already know it's nice. I'm here in the Conrad Hotel, the D.C. Van, we've talked about this. We have to do it. Why? We have to do it. Because I have to give the people at the Conrad Hotel their props.

I am feeling great. Let me tell you what happened. And this is, I want everybody to. to pay attention for a second. This morning, I wake up. I'm leaving Atlanta. I got to come to D.C. I'm missing the family.

I want to get back to Kaleek. I want to get back to the dog. I'm like, God damn, got another city. Got to get up for an event tomorrow. Boom. Got to come back, right? Not feeling so great. I get there.

Short flight from Atlanta to D.C. Get there. You know, the car is not there. All of this stuff. It's just, it's traveling. Snafus, the first world problems, all of that stuff. Like travel snafus, whatever, whatever. But by the time I get there, I'm beating down, I'm like, yo, I don't even get a chance

to take a real nap because as soon as I land, I got to turn around and do the podcast, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Get to the Conrad. I've stayed here before. I stayed here the last time I was here. I come into the room at the Conrad Hotel. It's a great hotel. Yes.

You know? And I'm looking at. around the room and I'm like, what's going on in the room? Because I see different pictures that are in the room here at the Conrad Hotel. Yeah. This is one of the pictures that I see. I see, I see, I see, I see, I see this picture here at the Conrad Hotel, right? I see it on, I see it on my.

my nightstand and then I look over on the table where I'm doing the podcast right now and I see this picture. And then I look on the TV another picture of Mountain Lion, another picture of Mountain Lion. And I'm like, what the hell's going on? And I see this note. This note says, welcome to the Conrad Hotel, Washington, D.C., Van Lathin, Jr. How do we know you love Mountain Lions and Wolf so much, you ask? the answer is simple

one of us is a thought warrior have an amazing stay with us Kiki and the front office team I would like to give a gigantic shout out to Kiki and the front office team because I was having a tough

the tired day and I come in here and I'm surrounded by Mount Lion they got Mount Lion in the frame they frame pictures of Mount Lion those might be gifts You might, you should ask Kiki and them if you can take one, at least one of those home.

That is so, I, I'm fired up. I'm fired up. I'm fired up. That was so amazing from the people here at the greatest hotel in the world. Conrad Hotel, Washington, D.C., aka Mountain Lion Hotel. They have not, you guys, I promise you, I swear, they haven't spent any. money with us. This is not an ad. This is just thought warriors doing thoughtful things and it really I laughed. You know what I mean? It was funny. It made me relax a little bit. It was just really a

fantastic thing. That really warms my heart. It almost is making me turn a corner on Mountline because that is really special and the segment resonates with so many. I love hearing from thought warriors in the wild. I heard from a thought warrior in the wild the other day who told me that you refer to House of Dragon as Hot D. Yeah, hot D. Also said that you, they listen to the ring of verse, obviously for them to get that reference, which I find hilarious. Never saw it that way until he said that. I am fired up about two things too that both have to do with you. What's up? Let's just stay on a Van Lathen roll here. What's wrong? No, no, no. I'm fired up in a good way. Okay. One. just happened to be scrolling through Instagram

and I saw the trailer for hip hop homicides. I got to post it. You guys 50 cent posted it. I knew it was going to be good, but it does look really good. It's really cool to see you moving around doing your thing. Juvenile, wasn't ready for that.

Juveniles in it, yeah. Wasn't ready for that. So anyways, just want to give you a shout out because that was pretty cool to see. I wasn't expect to see that. also I love a good crossover watching real housewives of Salt Lake City last night and who other popped up on

Kee Kee in with the housewives than your cousin Big Baby What I said I go Brian he was in the room who I'm watching I said Is that Clint Davis

And sure enough they had at the bottom Glenn Davis A.k.a. Big Baby He was in the episode I'm a housewife. Apparently he's friends with one of the husbands. They had a birthday party, but usually those people are in the background. Like he had a caron at the bottom.

He was hanging out with one, flirting with one, hanging out with two more. He was in the mix. I expected to see him another episode. Love that across him. Look, hey, Glenn is living his life here in his post-NBA life. Big baby. Shout out to Glenn. Shout out to his dad.

Shout out to my dad. But yeah, just fire up. You guys, it doesn't take very much. It doesn't take very much to like do a nice thing. I just, I got to do more nice things for people. I do because it's like, think about the. And because something happened to me today. Like I had to eat bad.

I was in the airport and so I had to go to the airport Chick-Fillet. And the girl at the airport Chick-fil-A was delightfully rude to me. I actually appreciated it because I don't like the cult of Chick-fil-A niceness. I don't dig it. I got up there to get the Chick-fil-A. Got a small meal, like little kid's meal

just to tie me over, okay, not trying to go crazy. And I'm like, and she's like, what kind of drink you want? I'm like, God, damn. I was like, water? And she was like, okay. And I was going to wait where they call your name. And she was like,

Don't go nowhere. And I was like, what? What kind of sauce? I'm like, shit. Ranch? She was like, now you could go. And then I went over there and I waited for the stuff. I was like, you know what?

Good for you. Good for you, sister. Like, you don't have to, don't, don't, you don't need to be on that my pleasure bullshit. Nigger, take your chicken and go sit your fat ass down and eat it and shame in front of the whole airport. You know what I mean? I needed that because I wasn't supposed to be eating that.

That my pleasure. I wish you to say, don't you think you need this? Don't you think you need to? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. What did you do today, Rachel? I worked. Worked.

I had a couple of interviews. Went to the dermatologist. Saddened L.A. traffic came here, you know? As you say that, I feel like a new bump is like, is. Don't touch it, man. Don't touch the bump. You shouldn't touch it. You're not supposed to touch you?

No, no, because it's oil, like, you don't want your dirty hands in the area. No, no, no. You got some rubbing alcohol? No, no, I'm on the road. So what I need to do? Put something, I just, because I'm going to have it. To dry it out, to dry it out. Ask Kiki.

Ask Kiki in them. Kiki and then will help me. Kiki in the front of the Conrad Hotel. Kiki. All right, guys, this is enough pleasantries. Normally we give you more pleasantries, but we got to get to the podcast, okay? because we got to talk about some stuff that's going on. On the podcast today, we have an incredibly special guest, Jamel Hill.

Okay. And we want to talk to her a little bit about the discourse around Blika Andrews and how Twitter is going in. There's no quarter from Malika Andrews on Twitter. And like, what is at the root of this? Is it misogyny? Do people feel like she's anti-black? What's the true discussion that needs to be had?

And why has the reaction to the Eme Udoka? situation becomes so polarized. We'll talk to Jamil about that in a second. The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul Predicts. Predict the spread, total points, and even the game winner. Sign up and get a $25 bonus. Offered by Fandul prediction markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant,

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Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimfaya today. Call 1-800-526-7.com.com. 7736 to learn more or visit trimfire radio.com. Okay, guys, we told you that we discussed a little bit about of the conversation surrounding Malika Andrews, Stephen A. Smith, I. Udocha. And the response to the entire, I don't know, it's a Twitter bullshit and the way it's ran his head on social media, we wanted to bring in somebody who understands that world, who understands navigating it, and who has come. conquered it. That's why I brought in my sister. My sister. Of course, you guys know her. Jamel Hill.

She is one of the brightest minds in sports. She hosts the Jamel Hill is Unbothered podcast here on the Spotify Network. She hosted way down in the hole the definitive podcast on the wire with myself here on on the Ringer network. And of course, you might know her formerly her time at ESPN. So she underwent. understands some of the media spin that can arise from working there. Jamel, how are you doing today? It's a pleasure to be here with you both. Both who have been guests on Jamel Hill is unbothered. So it's just a lot of full circleness happening right now.

Yes. I want to get into this with you because obviously you're up on the story. E. Mae Udoka's having issues big time. It's been suspended for a year and there's been all kinds of talk around. if he should have been suspended or what's going on there is it fair are people taking it out on him because he's black this and this and that

and it's led to some discussion at ESPN you know notably between Stephen A. Smith Malika Andrews and then later on in that same day Malika Andrews and Kendrick Perkins and people are coming at Malika Andrews for this saying that

yo she treats black men poorly she is pushing a pro-feminist agenda at ESPN and trying to shut people down. Have you seen this discourse? And can you help us make some sense of it? Oh, yeah. I've definitely seen it.

And I caught some strays because of it. And because, you know, the ashes, as I call them, the ashes and the incels decided that they wanted to either try to weaponize me against Malika or bring up the fact that she is just among a long list of black women at ESPN who hate black men. And it was just disappointing, but more than anything, Van and Rachel, I mean, to be 100% honest, it's hurtful. It's really, really hurtful. It's hurtful because a lot of the people saying that, they don't know how hard it is to get to where a Malika Andrews is, where I am. You know, Malika Andrews is not even 30 years old.

And she has her own daily NBA talk show. She was, I believe, like the youngest sideline reporter ever at the NBA. finals. She's just over the last two years been crushing it, the first woman to host the NBA draft, which she did earlier this year. And it's just amazing to see how quickly this has turned from just disagreeing with her opinion of Ime Udoka, which you are allowed to do. And I have no problem if you want to challenge, you know, her assessment of the situation or even if you want to challenge the fact that the interim coach she brought in his past criminal record, she brought that into the conversation. That's fine. But where you lose me is

when you start saying things like she hates black men, start posting a photo or photos of the person that she is allegedly dating. And using that as an indictment to come after her blackness, we look juvenile and silly by doing that. That's a pointless conversation by calling her a sellout, a mammy, a bed witch, all the things that I've been called to. And so that's the part to me that's really, really hurtful and especially because, and I'm not saying they're the only ones so that people don't misunderstand me, but especially seeing enough of a disturbing amount of it coming from black men. Yeah. So were you, and I don't know if it's, were you shocked by this? Maybe not shocked that this happened, but to the level that it went to in such a quick way. I was very surprised

by that, Rachel, to be honest, because, you know, I saw the exchange between her and Stephen A. Smith and the number of men, and it was largely men. I mean, I'm not saying women into anything, too, applauding Stephen A for putting Malika in her place. Was like, what are we talking about? You know, it's almost, like, Malika used to trend on Twitter a lot, like, during the draft, during other NBA coverage points, because a lot of dudes were looking at Malika, be like she's fine and she's knowledgeable, right? Then she was trending for all the right reasons in their mind. But the moment that she voiced a stronger opinion, particularly this kind of issue,

then all of a sudden, she is a biscuit eater and a bed witch. And I'm just like, I'm just trying to follow what the train of thought was. No, the biscuit eater is the one that kills you. Y'all can't do the, I have been telling you. Ben, do you know how many times I've been called. biscuit eat up. I don't even know what it means. I was like, what does it mean? I was like, I like biscuits. Is that wrong?

When did I get biscuit shamed? I don't even understand this. That is the funniest diss on the internet. Because I'll tell you why, all of my friends have been subject to this. And it's one thing that just like, it's just something visceral about calling somebody saying that they want mass as butter biscuits. It's hilarious, but it's fucked up. Anyway, I've been struggling to understand this insult for years. I'm like, okay, Mammy, I get, and Jamima I get, bed winch I get. I get all of those, but the biscuits?

I was like, what did biscuits ever do to anybody except for to be fluffy and delicious? Like, I don't understand why this attack on biscuits. But now, to answer your question, I was really surprised at the ferocity of the attack. And this is what I also want people to understand, is that like, these debate shows, as you see, they're all over television. In the sports sphere, in the political sphere, people go at it on TV every day. I see dudes calling each other stupid and all these kind of things. Like, they go at each other every day on these shows. Some take a personal, some don't.

You know, a lot of times when you're in this debate format, as I know all too well, having been on every debate show practically at ESPN, you might have a heated, passionate discussion. Commercial hit, you're joking about something else. Right. So the people at home are often taking it way more seriously than you are. Because at home, they're keeping scored like, oh, he sunned her. Oh, she did this. Like, we're not thinking about it this way. This is what we do for a living. So when I saw the exchange, and yes, it was testy. That's what I would, I would, I think that's a fair. Did you have any issue with the exchange between Stephen A. So, you know, I can see both sides of it from this standpoint is that, yeah, she was, she was certainly strong in her opinion.

And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. he was strong in his opinion. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. To me, the part that gave me a little pause is him feeling the need to remind her that it's his show. And, you know, I get it. I get it, but don't get it. It's one of those things where I just think even in the course of a passionate, respectful discussion, even one that gets a little bit heated, it's got to be a certain level of a boundary that is created there.

Like, when you try not to embarrass the other person across from you, even if you don't necessarily agree. You know, I remember when Mike and I were doing his and hers and he was at SportsCenter, Mike used to talk about one of his pet peeves was when, you know, you're in a back and forth. And it really is just a back and forth because there's got to be a little bit of volley going on if you want the debate to be good. And it was one person in particular that was an ESPN personality who, whenever somebody would just try to volley back and forth, he'd be like, wait, let me finish and hold up his hand.

And see, when you do that, is that. that it signals something different to the audience. Then it comes off a different way where it's just like, wait, let me do that. Let me finish. Oh, okay. So I just think there's certain things, just from a TV standpoint that I'm like, eh, whatever.

But, you know, I didn't think it was so overly disrespectful that it warranted the reaction that it got in the social media space where there was just too much of a cheering crowd being happy and excited to see a woman, in particular, a black woman, you know, one A, one and one A, being in their mind, disrespected on television. Like they were all here for it.

And it was just too much cheering. And, you know, I just didn't, I didn't like the reaction at all because I thought it spoke to how even now that whenever a black woman voices an opinion, it becomes, it just becomes an invitation for the insales and the ashes to get their rocks off by coming forth with their latest, you know, banned of ignorant whole teperee on 10.

For sure. Did you have a problem with her bringing up Joe Missoula? Joe Missoula. Is it Missoula? You know I'm about it. Joe Missoula's past arrest. Do you, because we've,

I feel like we talked about that on the show before of a journalist reporting something. I think it was around Kobe when we were talking about it. A journalist reporting something and then having to bring up something that they did that doesn't necessarily have to do what the topic is, but they're bringing us something from the past. Do you have a problem with the way that she brought that up when she was discussing him taking over in the head coaching role? Now, Rachel, you're a lawyer by trade, correct? Correct. Okay, now somebody's past

record, if it applies to the case, you usually probably break it up. I know, I don't know if criminal defense was or criminality, criminal justice was not your thing, but that's pretty common, right if it relates to the case. If it's relevant, yes. If it's relevant. So the question I would pose to everybody else, because the majority of America didn't find out about who this interim coach was until he got put in the position of being interim coach.

That means you don't know anything about his past. You don't know anything about his coaching record, anything. Journalism 101 is to explain to people who this is. Now, the other part of this is that there, He's replacing someone who has had some kind of workplace issue related to a woman in the context of some kind of affair that apparently went south in some kind of way that we still don't know. So the treatment of women is on the table because of what the issue that the Celtics are trying to deal with currently is. And I know a lot of people took issue with it, but that's literally journalism 101. Now, let's just say that Amy Adoka had been suspended for a year for, I don't know, kicking a clown.

I don't know, just thinking of something else that had nothing to do, you know, maybe a bar fight. Maybe that's what it was, right? Or, and maybe a bar fight isn't even the best example because I realized that there's an element of assault with a current coach. But just say something totally not related to this. And I think then it might be a fairer question, but because of the subject matter is about, treatment of women because that's what the coach was just suspended a year for, then it is fair game. Look, people don't like it because, listen, the same people that are taking issue

with Malika bringing this up have no problem. If I go back to Brett Farr, cutting somebody off in 11th grade and bringing that all up into the frame now, you know, see, some of us, some of us want in both ways. We only want some people's dirt brought up, but not other people's dirt brought up, right? And it's all, you know, like everybody's talking about, you know, how Brett Favre, I mean, he exposed himself to women in his past. You know, it's part of the general, when you're talking about somebody's character, okay, this is what he used to do. And it's all relevant. So if it's relevant for Brett Favre, why wouldn't it be relevant for somebody else?

So this is what I've, this is, so I actually disagree. And let me tell you why. And I don't disagree in a, I don't disagree in like a. an aggressive way, but this coach hadn't done anything yet. So we're leading with this now. So like in Brett, in Brett Farb's case, I can understand Brett Farfucking over somebody

and then we go, us going back and going, look at the times that Brett Farbs has fucked over people in the past. In this situation, it almost seems as if, and look, there are certain things that you do in life that you can never escape. Like I tell my, I tell my younger brother, Big Sean said in,

in one of his rhymes, like my grandmother told me it only takes one time to fuck up your whole Wikipedia. You know, I tell my little brother, I was like, just make mistakes, but make the right mistakes because understand that there are certain mistakes that you just cannot live down. And one of them is always going to be in any way putting your hands on a woman. So I'm not going to cry in any way because that was brought up. You know what I mean? I'm like, it's something that you do and then you're going to have to answer it for it by two decent people for the rest of your life, the way that it goes. But in this case, the first of the first of the first of the

first thing, like we didn't even meet that guy. We met that, we met that aspect of his life before we met anything else about him. And, and, and so, I don't know if that's, if that's true, man, because I'm going to be honest, like, I didn't even know about what you're discussing. I mean, in terms of his past. I, that was like, I read about it in a story. And it was, it was not even in the first four or five graphs. Like, I didn't feel like if you, I don't know if the conversation necessarily, I would disagree that it's leading with. I think it's a part of the context of. I don't know if that's the first thing that.

And she did lead with it when you have to think about how she said it. She talked about him and then she said just to note and she added it at the end before she had everybody else talk. I get that just to note, this is how he fucked up in the past. When I say this the first thing we know about him, I'm not saying that she said that first. What I'm saying is like nobody really knew him. Even when I heard that, I was like, hmm, okay? Interesting.

Now, if you're him somewhere, you might be feeling like, God damn, I just got kicked in my nuts from something. It's like the entire thing, I could see people being like, fuck, you know, and especially just to be real with you. And this, for me, this is the, this could be the toxic part of me. It's just, I don't know very many brothers from where I'm from who don't have some sort of past. And I think sometimes what they want, particularly from people in the black community, is they want second chances. They want opportunities to move forward and prove that they're not the same people they were when they made mistakes in the past. Now, like I said, sometimes you don't always get that.

But I think to see if that were somebody who was white who did that, everybody would be like, oh, look at a white person, bringing up this blah, blah, blah, blah. But to see that it was a black woman, I think that some people were like, fuck, why she did them like that? So let me ask you this. Does it matter to you because of like if it doesn't matter to me. I just can see. No, no, no. No, no.

No. No. No. What I'm saying is like I do think it is worth noting it because of the situation that Celtics are in. Like if Joe Missoula, if he was, if this wasn't related to a violence issue against a woman, like again, I'll just use the same example. If he got into a bar fight in college, I don't think Malika would have brought that up.

To be honest. And I think as a reporter, I probably. wouldn't have either. But now on the table, he had an assault charge. Yeah, he did. I know, he did. You're right. He did. But it was like two, it was, it was two separate incidents, correct? If I'm not mistaken. You can y'all be correct. So maybe bar fight. God, that's right. That's a bad example. But let's just say it was just a bar fight, right? And that was it. And nothing else was on the table. I think what the, I don't know if she would have brought that up because now was now was in in public discourse is how do the Celtics treat women at their organization? Because that's what this

Emi Adoka situation has created. It's people wondering, they're like, okay, so he's having, apparently, according to reports, a consensual affair, you know, according to one report, he was making unwanted comments about the woman. There's an investigation that takes place. So now people are wondering, well, how are women being treated up in there? And then there was this wider problem of because of the way this news dropped, every woman who works for the Celtics was suddenly put under enormous scrutiny as being, is this the woman who has to walk around with the Starlet X? So treatment of women as a conversation is on the table, which is why I think it was mentioned. If he does something totally different in his past, I don't know that that has the same

content. I don't know that she brings it up. Now, if I were writing the story, because I mean, realize it's a difference between saying it on TV and in the store to how it registers with people because on TV you're talking about a 15 second, you know, sound clip or 15 second sentence. In print, if you're starting off and you're saying like, hey, Joe Mazula, he, you know, he played here, he coached here. He's been in the NBA here, here, here, here, and here. But things haven't always been as smooth. In his past, he was this and this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Maybe you say, okay, well, this is how, you know, since then, there have been no incidents, and this is what other people have to say about this dude. It gives you a little more room to put all of that information together. TV does not allow you the opportunity to do that. I'm not trying to excuse if people think that she was wrong for bringing it in, but just to explain and give sort of a fuller 64,000-foot view of it. Do you think they would have done this with Rachel Nichols? I do because, as Van said, I think, and look, Rachel has caught, when she was in that seat,

she caught her share of of social media flag i'm sure they got her to fuck up out of there yeah essentially like she caught yeah she caught her share so i i think if she you know much to ban's point if she's a white woman who says this about a black coach with her platform that's going to raise the same kind of hell i guess the part in our community that we need to talk openly and honestly about you know none of us are going to go through life mistake free you know we're all one decision away from, as you said, Van, having our Wikipedia pages read something else. Totally different.

I've certainly made my share of mistakes as well. But as a community, we have to be able to put certain things on the table without everybody being called a sellout or a manny. Like, we just got to get past that, right? And listen, I fully am making room for the fact there are definitely some people in our community who deserve that label. But they deserve that label for a long track record of, things. And so suddenly, you know, people trying to say Malika the new stage deal. I'm just like,

y'all don't even know her. Like, I know Malika. Okay. I know Malika said she was a reporter at the Chicago Tribune. I know Stephen A. Smith. I've known Stephen A. Smith for 20 years. So I can, you know, say both within that dynamic of what looks like contentiousness, I'm sure Stephen A was not like, let me figure out how to knock this woman down a peg or two. But the fact that so many people are reveling in that in that uh dynamic is just is really it's just weird behavior and unfortunately it just shows kind of the price you pay if you are a black woman in that position and lord forbid you have a critical word for a black man because i i went through this whole thing with floyd mayweather bringing up his domestic violence stuff oh my god that's why i was like yeah this is like this is like

watch rinse repeat all all over again all over again and the level of the Floyd stands, they up there in terms the top five worst up there. Do you know what the interesting thing about Stephen A. Smith, though, is that he does have a track record of being less

than cordial or appropriate when discussing women on first take. He does. But remember, like, they suspended him back in the day because they, they

did. They suspended him back in the day when he intimated that maybe you shouldn't provoke an athlete into hitting you. This was based after the Ray Wright situation. And he got in trouble. So it's just interesting that like that that wasn't brought into this debate. I'm not saying that Stephen A. Smith has a problem with relating to women. I'm saying that I could easily connect those two things and say, hey, this is the same

guy who said, I also tell my sister, don't provoke a man into abusing you, which is a fucking nuts thing to say on television. I'm sorry, I know that's your guy. No, I mean, I was

disappointed that he said that as well. So like, I'm not going to, I'm not going to at all absolve him from that comment. That was, that was a bad moment for him for sure. But, you know, it's just this is why sports is such a, it can be a very unwelcome space, you know, for women because, you know, I was just going through some of the

comments. And it was just interesting how not only was there cheering in terms of knocking Malika down a peg or two, but it was a whole lot of this is why women don't belong to sports. And who is she to, even with Kendrick Perkins, who is she to challenge Kendrick Perkins and Richard Jefferson? And she's never played and all this kind of stuff and all that noise that most of us who are in the game have heard that our entire fucking careers. Like, you're, that's That's not a new insult, my man. It's not new. I've heard that shit my whole fucking career.

I know I didn't play. I got it. Okay. I didn't black out at that time I was in the NFL and fucking missed it. I already know. And I'm like, you know, as I often said to them, your ass didn't play either. You feel very comfortable telling me how to do my job.

And you yelling at your TV acting like you know more than Patrick Mahomes too. So I guess we vote for the same boat. But the difference is I'm actually getting paid to give my opinion and your ass ain't. So it ain't got to hit what it is. Don't get me started. No, no, I love it. By the way, we are going to, I want to, Jamil has an amazing book coming out later on.

We haven't got a chance to read it yet because it doesn't come out for a little while. We're going to have it back on the show to talk about the book. But we wanted to just real quick, plug the book. You got to get as much out there as you can. Oh, you see, you know my fellow memoir, buddy in the struggle. Like, you got to plug the book as much as possible. It's called Up Heard. if they show video of this.

You can see it right behind me. Got the copies strategically placed. And it's out October 25th, available for pre-order now, wherever books are sold. And I won't even hold y'all up. And I'm sure, Van, you had the same idea as well. I was like, I'm trying to make the New York Times best selling this. So I need y'all to buy the fucking book.

Buy the book. Y'all always talk about how down y'all offer the cause and then y'all be picked. Go buy the book. Go buy the book. Buy the fucking book. All right. Now look. We got to let you go.

Thank you for the insight. Yeah, thank you for coming on. Thank you so much. If you had advice for Malika Andrews that you could give her right now, last question I'll ask you, what will be your advice? Because I'm sure it must not be easy. Seeing your name trending,

seeing people bring up your personal life, seeing people call you a bedwinch, butter biscuits, the whole nine. Biscuit eater. The whole nine. What would your advice to Malika Andrews be? Well,

my advice would be for her is just to do what she can to protect her peace. You sort of have to wall yourself off from it and have even more faith and confidence that you're doing the job that you were supposed to do. And I would also tell her that this is the ebbs and flows that you go through. Those same people who are blowing up her mentions now, calling her all those names and criticizing her, you know, pushing their own anti-black agenda. since everybody got an agenda, pushing that on her, that all those people in three months will either have forgotten about it

or be like, oh, Malika's great. You know, it just, this is part of the territory that people love you one minute and they hate you the next. So you can't get emotionally invested in either side of it, right? Because you have to know that one day it'll disappear and people will find something else to fuck with you about. And you just have to have this,

really unshakable confidence that you are doing what you're supposed to do because all of people talking shit about you cannot do what you do. Yeah, word up. That's Jamel Hill. Jamil Hill is unbothered. Is on

Spotify. You guys, we got to get Jamel some Brussels sprouts. Oh, hell no. Yeah, yeah. We got to get Jamel. We got to get Jamel. When I come back, when I come back,

because maybe we could, because I think we might be doing that in person. We might be. That's going to be in personal. Brussels sprouts taste taste. Have some Brussels. Have some Brussels sprouts for me. We're going to do it.

Oh, because Brussels sprouts are the devil's food. That's why. Like, only communist like Russell sprouts. I'll make some. I'll make you some. Nah, that's not what we're going to do. That's not what we're going. You see what we're going to.

We're going to go with the shirt thing. All right, Jamel. Thank you for. All right. See you. Bye. Bye-bye. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business.

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Order now at order. Sweetgreen.com. Okay. Uh, Rachel. Hurricane Ian is really battering Florida. So triggering for me. Have you seen any of the footage coming out from? Yeah.

No, I mean, it's almost unreal, right? Like you see it and you're like, is this actually happening? And to hear the stories of, you know, like I watch the coverage, but I try not to watch too much of the coverage because it just becomes, it's so sad to see people's homes underwater,

their cars, all their belongings. I mean, people on top of room. people trying to save animals. It's just, and I was listening to the mayor of St. Petersburg talk today, and he was really giving a warning about, well, first he was saying how, you know, it's been nice to see that, you know, the way that politicians in Florida have been approaching this or people, you know, who have the power to do things are being very bipartisan with this because they're realizing so many people are suffering, so many people are going to be displaced.

And, you know, of course, they're also talking about how it's after the story. passes through that it's really dangerous because people don't have power. Power lines are down. You know, waters everywhere. You can't really assess the damage and see everything. And there's just so much danger lurking in the waters. But he also talks about climate change and kind of a wake-up call of people really need to pay attention because what's happening is so devastating.

But it's not just a one-off. And if we don't, if each person doesn't do their individual part to take. care of what's, you know, what they can do for the climate to try to stop these things from happening or be a better person when it comes to taking care of, you know, the environment. This is just the beginning of it is what he was saying, which I thought was interesting. I mean, he was on Morning Joe, so it made sense to, I guess, have that conversation. Well, I don't think it's actually the beginning. I think we're past the beginning.

These storms are getting more aggressive. I guess what you mean. I guess I can understand at the beginning of the entire shift is what is. is what they're saying. And I remember even when Katrina came through Florida, when Katrina came through Florida, it was a, it weakened.

Then it hit the Gulf and it was like just on steroids. The water was so warm in the Gulf always that a storm really, really gathers a lot of steam. And, you know, as we see these waters rise or in temperature, we're going to see more storms that are incredibly intense. And that once every three to four year storm, is going to become a once every year storm.

And then that once every three to four year storm is going to become even more of a mammoth and a behemoth than it already is. You know, it's so exhausting sometimes litigating the merits of climate change. It seems like something you shouldn't have to do. And it's just like this sinking feeling when you look at everybody down there

when you think about people dying of politics, you know, and if you do any history, you know that politics is probably the leading cause of death in human history, you know, at least civilized human history. So, you know, and I don't want to bleed too much over into that,

but I do want to let people know that on our social media, we're going to have up resources where you can help out because the people that this truly affects are, I saw this one video with a guy and his McLaren was floating in the water. Did you see that? Oh, yeah, I saw that.

Okay. All due respect to McLaren float dude. I bet he's going to be okay. That sucks that your McLaren is floating in the water, but McLaren float guy is going to be just fine. Unless he won the lottery and then went out and bought, put all of his money into McLaren, he doesn't have any insurance,

then he's fucked. but like McLaren float guy's going to be okay. But this is what I mean to say by that. What I mean to say is, as much as that sucks, there are people that aren't going to be able to replace cars that aren't McLaren's. We're talking about cars that they're not stunting in, cars that they need to get from point A to point B,

and those are the people who are going to need a lot of help in the aftermath of Hurricane E. I'm not minimizing what McLaren guys going through. I'm not. I'm just saying we have to, have to keep our minds on the fact that would some sometimes people lose everything and they can't replace it yeah i mean i it's that video of him posting or whoever it got i saw it on somebody else's posting that doesn't we have no idea what the back story is we have no idea what else they lost

we have no idea how else this affected him so i'm like cautious and saying like okay that guy's going to be okay because we don't know what the rest of the story is behind that i'm betting that if he has a mcclaren he's going to be okay from the mcclain anybody that is has been affected by this whether they're driving a McLaren or something a lot less than it's just it's just it's it's devastating it really is at Rachel sticking up for the rich I I really thought you were Miss Revolution I really thought look at look at you're enjoying this so much. Look at Rachel. Let them eat cake Lindsay over here. No, I just, yeah, you just have no idea of what people lost. And it's, it's always, it's always weird to me to be here we are,

you know, in California, it's a beautiful day. The weather's nice. We're sitting here podcasting. And then like literally on the other side of the country, people have lost everything. It's such a weird feeling. So it's weird to talk about. It's hard to even comprehend. This is happening in your very own country. For those people who did ask me, family in Florida say, thank you for asking that.

And okay. Van, I was sitting down last night. Really excited because a new season of Real Housewives of Salt Lake City was starting. There's a lot. You don't watch.

You know, I got to, before I just go into the topic. I got to get you to sit down and watch just one franchise. It's got to be Potomac or Atlanta because that's where we live. But I got to get you into one of them. I actually think you would really enjoy it and be entertained by Alpha M.S. But Salt Lake City's coming back and there's a lot of drama surrounding it, a lot of rumors that have been circulating.

So I was very eager that the premiere was finally here. And then as I'm sitting watching and I get an alert on my phone that we lost. Kulio. Kulio passed away. It was a sudden and shocking death. He had just performed last week in Texas, on stage doing his thing. The statement came from his talent manager, Sheila Finnegan, who said, quote, we are sadden by the loss of our dear friend and client, Kulio, who passed away this afternoon. Further went on to say he touched the world with the gift of his talent and will be missed profoundly. Thank you to everyone worldwide who has listened to the music and to everyone who has been reaching out regarding his passing. Please have Cullio's loved ones in your thoughts and prayers.

Man, your thoughts. Life will live. Going too soon. Rachel, I'm going to give you the opportunity. 59 years old. 59, 59. Yeah, 59. Had some amazing.

I'm going to give you the opportunity to walk back the notion that. Cullio's death interrupted the beginning of... No, I didn't say, no, you misinterpreted that whole thing. Donnie jump in.

Didn't it sound a little bit like... Donnie, see, he's laughing. The point? Donnie, didn't it sound... Did I use the word interrupted? I know. I know that's not what you meant, but why is Donnie laughing?

Didn't it sound a little bit like, Donnie, go ahead and tell her. The point? Yeah. Okay. Go ahead and tell her. I have to go back and listen to this. First of all, if the lights go out of your room, what's happening?

That was cool. The Conrad. The Conrad. That was cool, yo. No, it felt like it didn't feel like it in the moment, but retroactively looking back on it. No, fair makes you do that. No, the point was so, I was looking forward to this the whole night. And then I was like, had such joy sitting out and watching it.

And then I was sad when I saw that got the alert that Kulio passed away. That's the point of the whole conversation. Like I was in one mood and then that changed my mood. I was really sad to see that he passed at such a young age. That was the point. Put a poll out there. No, no. Polish jackals.

Did you really think I was saying that Kulio's death interrupted? I don't think we need a poll. I just want to make sure that we were clear. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I'm so sorry. Van just gave you the opportunity to clean it up. So there's like no confusion.

So there's no way that anybody could think that, you know what I mean? Because we're talking about Coolio and you started off with the real housewives, which, by the way, it's not the only time you did that because we talked about the real housewives before. So it's it's top of mind. Yeah. It changed my mood. I was affected by seeing that he passed away. So suddenly I was like, whoa, Coolio.

And Donnie, you got in his head, which you're probably going to get in everybody else's head listening to this. Because Donnie said he was fine. And then you brought that up. And he was like, oh, well, maybe it does sound like that. Here's the, this is what I'll say. And I'll, and this is, we, it's hard to describe for people who don't really know just how big Cooleo was in the mid-90s. Like, Cooleo was the man.

I don't think so because I think we're looking at gangster's paradise, right? But I'm talking about fantastic words. Come on y'all. Let's take a ride. Don't you say, well, just get inside. We're about to take a one on another kind of kid. Because you can't have the hop if you don't have the hit. Grab your gap with the extra clip.

And, like, I used, that was my shit. Kick it, kick it. Yeah, that's the ticket. Ain't no bluds. Ain't no cripping. Ain't no fools in the party. And I'm trying tripping. Everybody got a stack.

And it ain't no crack. And it really doesn't matter if you white up black. Like, I loved Culeo. it was upbeat, life-affirming rap. But not always. He had a song called Too Hot, where he remade. I think it was a, uh, was it a cool in the gang song? What's the too hot?

Who made the original Too Hot? Um, so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A Cool in the gang song with the song was actually about like sexually transmitted diseases. You know what I mean?

Oh. And then, of course, he hits big with one of the biggest record. records in the history of hip-hop. Cullio gives us Gangsters Paradise from the goddamn Dangerous Mind soundtrack, which, by the way, the song Gangsters Paradise is a character in Dangerous Minds. They kneel dropped the song so many times.

We did a rewatchable dangerous minds, Shea Serrano, Bill Simmons, and myself, and the song plays so much. It's a character in there. Huge record. won a Grammy for the record. Gigantic record. Should have won.

Best Original Song at the Academy Awards, if you're asking me. Okay. Culeo, just a fun, incredible talent. Grew up in the streets of Los Angeles. Took all of that, parlayed into an amazing rap career. Gone at 59. We're losing our legends too early. I see people like Bit Boy playing with a guy.

damn owl. I see Red Man skydiving. I see the rest of these brothers. I see Andre 3000 playing the flute. I want the soft life for our brothers and hip hop, brothers and sisters in hip hop.

I want the soft life after they put the mic down. I want to see them live long, long, fruitful lives because we've lost a lot of them. We lost biz. We lost Doom. You know what I'm saying? We lost Kulio. We lost X. you know we like

I want to see these brothers take care of themselves and that yeah it was sad when I saw when I saw that Culeo had passed away man rest in peace to Cooleo really made his mark man really made a billion views on YouTube Gangstas Paradise a song that came out

it goddamn was it 96 1996 still get a billion views still did a billion views man come on man It's such a crossover song song too. Give me as much

Gainesis Paradise as you could as you can give me right now, Rachel. Give me as much as you can give me. Come on. Come on, Rachel. I'm ready. Go. As I walk through the valley of the shadow of death.

I'll take a look at my life. Realize there's nothing like. Because I've been laughing and blasts it so long. Even my mama thinks that one thing. But I ain't never killed my man. that didn't deserve it. Maybe treated like a puck. You know what that's unheard of?

You're better. Why, a child you're talking. At way you're walking. Oh, you and your homies will be lined in chalk. I really hate the trips, but I got a loke.

A legend, man. A legend. Like, we got, we have to, what we have to do, we have to, because I'm getting so much joy from Culeo,

but he's not here. We have to start doing something where we just pick a legend and celebrate them so they could see it and feel it and get these hugs, man, and get these flowers. Yeah. And people like your homeboy and calling them dusty.

All right now. All right now. Can't talk about that though for a second? Can't talk about that? Okay. So obviously academics said that the hip hop, some of the hip hop founders are dusty. Okay.

Let's talk about this for a second. And I really mean something here when I say this. Obviously, we would want younger brothers in hip hop to speak better when they're talking about their elders and people who have paved the way because that's just basic respect. See, there's two different, and this kind of relates to the coolio thing. There's basic respect that we want to have for people who've paved the way in anything that we're doing, right? There's basic respect for our elders, okay? There's basic respect for people who have sacrificed and paved the way. And then there's like cultural respect and all that stuff.

All right. There's something else there, though. I don't really thought about what Ack said. Okay? What I thought about was the fact that Act represents something there. He represents a very specific programming that comes from mainstream hip-hop.

And the programming is, and I don't mean that I'm not about to be a guy that's blame hip-hop for this, but the programming is very specific. It's like there are very, specific markers to being a successful hip-hop mainstream character. One of them is money. The other one is influence.

Then you got women. Then you got, so I would say money, women, power. And I mean, now even the quality of music kind of is not even as big a deal as it used to be, right?

For sure. And the image, right? And the kids think that, everybody that's trying to get clout and everybody that's trying to be lit and everybody they'll do whatever they have to do to make a buck and everybody'll do whatever they have to do to uh to get notice they think that because that's what we told them so we told them and when i say we i mean i grew up listening to rap music that said if you ain't got to change you ain't shit if you broke you ain't shit like like bro boys don't deserve no pussy i know that's right like all like all like all like all of you're of that stuff like that's I mean that's on both sides of it right like we have so when he sees them and he sees somebody that literally sat in their in their basement digging through records and creating an art form the art form whether or not you could rap or whether or not you could do all

of that stuff that don't matter to that don't matter to some of these kids like what matters to them is what do you have to show for it and I think that attitude culturally is rat poison and that needs to be litigated and discussed way past with accent how how how how how we view and value people you know what I mean how we view and value people and how our culture takes care of its elders obviously Charlemagne said some of this but I'll tell you something like that I'll tell you like the Rolling Stones are etched in youth like they're 70 some years old but they're really not there Mick Jagger right now is the same age he's you. was in 1967. Sure. And that's because the music

and the songs are timeless. Hip hop is so it's so stuck in like, it's like right now the, could the,

could Jay-Z have a tour as big as the Roland Snow's performing records from 2000, 2001, 2002.

Probably not. Because we look at aging in this a little bit different. So we have to take, we have to look at the longevity of this culture and the longevity of these guys like Julio and like X so they don't burn out. And I'm not just talking about burning out in terms of passing away. I'm talking about how do we take care of them?

And everybody's been talking about how do we take care of them and how do we honor them? Because all too often we forget about them. And a lot of the hip hop guys in their 40s that you see carrying on on Instagram right now. A lot of the ones you see getting involved in every single different cause, going viral for doing stupid shit. A lot of them that's trying all these wacky-ass new careers that's doing all of this stuff, they're afraid you guys are going to forget about them. That's what they're afraid of.

Like, they're scared that one day they're going to be looked at as the old dusty guy because they spent a career telling you that the old. old Dusty guy sucked. Poxed it. Nigger looking like Larry Holmes. Flappy and sick. What was Larry Holmes? A old champion passes prime.

There's no greater sin in hip hop than being Pasher Prime. And I was actually shocked that so many people were surprised that he had that outlook. Of course they feel like that. Of course. Like we told them, like we told them the OGs and hip hop told them that, in order to be the man to be a man the dude that nigger

there were certain things you had to have and if you look at somebody I don't give a fuck that you were spending records in the park 1977 and you gave I don't give a fuck about that you ain't got no chain you don't have no IG model you ain't got no cool car

boom you out and like I feel like that's not what academics was saying I feel like I missed all of that Well, no, I mean, he wouldn't say it that way. I would. But so what, no, what he?

I get everything you're saying. I'm like, but he was more so talking about, from what I gather, that he was talking about like you're not reaching down and helping you keep in all this wealth and knowledge to, or not even wealth, but just this knowledge to yourself about how to navigate this. And you're not passing it down to these young folks. They're making the same mistakes that you guys did back in the day. Or maybe they didn't, but they're making these mistakes now. And you're not passing down the knowledge.

Well, that's what he said after. The first thing he said is every time I see one of these hip-hop legends and pioneers, they look old and dusty to me. And that part of it is the part that a lot of people clip. Now, the reasons why they're old and dusty is he's saying that there's a cycle of usury that exists in our culture that we are having trouble breaking away from. That's obviously true. But the reality is we've criminalized being broke.

We talked about this when we talked about the P&B Rock's at joint. We've criminalized being broke or in some way not having, not being able to wear all your wealth on your chest in certain pockets of the culture. Obviously, it's not all like this. But in certain pockets of the culture, we've criminalized that, right? Like, we watch videos, people in the club,

like fucking streamers or what are the fucking sparklers coming through? You got to be that and you ain't shit. So obviously he's going to feel that way. And so if you care about what he said, man, if you care about what he said go somewhere right now and tell Kuhirk how much he mean to you like if you

care about what he said you know go somewhere right now you know and dig up one of the guys from the old school like Kumo D or Big Daddy Kain you know DMC and Rev Runner still here

like tell those guys how much they mean to you or better yet buy a ticket go out and support them because they still trying to get money off their music right now So we can take care of these people But it's not going to be with bad feelings And fuck people who say shit like that Now he was wrong to say it And he said it in a very disrespectful way

You got disresolved. But the point remains, man Speaking to PNB rock, This looks like this could be A fucking family hit. This is wild. A 17-year-old has been arrested as the shooter And the second suspect

Has been identified as the guy. guy's fucking dad. The 17-year-old was the shooter. The dad was driving the getaway car. Speaking of teaching the youth, the wrong fucking thing, this is what I'm talking about. He's suspected of being a shooter in both the father and there's somewhere in the parking lot of Roscoes. Apparently, they saw P&B Rock come in.

The getaway car was driven by the older guy. Um, the gentleman's name is Freddie Lee Trone. Uh, and third do you a woman named Chantelle Trone was arrested in book as an accessory to murder and connection with P&B Rock's, PNB Rock's death. I don't know what to say. This is one of the saddest most fucked up commentaries on some of the ill parts of what it is that we're talking about. One of the worst things I've seen in a long time in.

Well, and the woman whose name is his accessory, she shares their same last name. I don't know how she fits all into this, but she seems like she's a relative as well. Yeah. Yeah. I was shocked when I saw this because what I saw, when I saw this rolled out, I just saw the picture of the old man.

I had no idea his son was the shooter. I had no idea he had a son that was involved. And now we see that this woman who's clearly related to them as well, was involved too. Yeah, this is, I'm sure, and the more, and the more that time goes on and we find out more details, it's just going to be sadder and sadder. obviously this should have never happened.

But you know, the challenge to a lot of brothers in the OGs in the game, and I'm not waving, I'm not paying everybody with the same brush, you know, the responsibility that we have, and this is a father failing his son. There's a father failing his son, if this is true, allegedly. This is a father failing his son. For what? For the chain on the neck of another brother?

Gotta do better, man. Gotta do better. We have to talk about this stuff more as well. Did you watch a Dahmer show? I can't get into it. I started it. I started it. You know, I hear people like you talk about it.

Talk about it was so good. So I was like, let me sit down. Let me watch this. It's a tough watch for me. But I also just don't like it. Yeah. You're not wrong. It's very difficult to watch.

I'm not going to lie. It made me very angry. So I haven't finished it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You finished it? I finished it, yeah. It made me very, very angry.

Very angry. The Dahmer show is in a lot of ways sensationalists, but in a lot of ways it is a scathing indictment of a failure of systems and the minimization of black people and their fears in America. And this was my era, like when it was 92 when all of this stuff was going down. And so it was the biggest thing on television is all over Geraldo. all over all that stuff. But it's so much deeper than even I remember as a kid, you know?

Sure, of course. Yeah. I, oh, wait, were you going to say something? I don't know. I'm listening. Well, I do find it interesting the discourse around it all because, you know, even I lived in Milwaukee for three years. People still talk about it.

But I have not seen something. And there's been a lot on Jeffrey Dahmer, but I had not seen. it told from this angle, at least to my knowledge. Like, I'm sure it's out there in some form, but I had not seen it told from, I guess, seeing how these systems had failed, seeing Nisi Nash play the neighbor,

seeing how there were multiple complaints, seeing how there were missing pictures of young black men, seeing that he was terrorizing this neighborhood, living amongst them. I hadn't really seen it from that. And so because when I see when I when I saw that this was coming out, it's like why do we need another one of these? That really was my thought. Why do we need to see this again?

I understand true crime. I like to watch true crime as well. I'm not in it like that where I'm listening to podcast and reading books and stuff. But I understand the fascination with it. But we see, Dahmer's been told so many times Ted Bundy's been told so many times we see we almost seem to sensational life. These serial killers in such a way where they're so. celebrities, even after they've died, they've passed away. But I did find it interesting up to the part that I watched that this told it from a side I had not seen before.

And almost as if it was to shame the police system, to shame the way that they treated the black people in that community. And the way they handled this case, they fumbled the case. Jeffrey Dahmer should have been caught so many times. It's like the- Oh, what are you going to say? It's like what? What we talked about with the young woman where they didn't believe her story. And then somebody ended up dying.

She was sexually assaulted. And then somebody ended up, he ended up murdering the next person. A young black woman. And it's still happening. You know, you have a black lady living next door to him is that the police in the thing. A young man escaped, 14-year-old man escaped Jeffrey Dahmer, who's drugged and incoherent. his next door neighbor and her niece and daughter tell the police, hey, don't you need to take this boy

with Dahmer comes to the police? This is a true thing that says, hey, this guy's my boyfriend. They let him take the kid back upstairs. He's 14 years old and then he kills him. Those cops, which I wouldn't research this. Those cops were put on administrative leave and got their jobs back after. They show that in the show.

one of the guys later on became the president of the police union no one of those two officers in the Dahmer situation became the president of the police union not only did he not use his job he fed a 14 year old kid to a fucking serial killer

and he still failed up you gotta fucking be kidding me about this shit He still failed up. Boossey says we shouldn't watch it. Play the audio, Donnie. Us as blacks, we need to ban this Jeffrey Dahmer movie. This is some sick shit. What he did to our race.

This is some sick shit. We need to boycott this damn movie off Netflix. This is sick. This is sick. The Dickham family should be getting paid off every dollar Netflix made. This is fucking sick. Okay. So that cops by the name, if you want to look that up, that cop's name is John Ballzerzac.

John Ballsorzac is one of the two cops. He ended up becoming the president of the police union down there. Bootsie's probably mad because of the gay stuff, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Which I'm actually shocked he did say. I was shocked he said it. And I was like, let me just think about this for a second.

Busy being on the right side of things. He's not. I'll be honest with you. He's not, he's not wrong here in terms of, I wonder what making, because when I'm seeing, I'm seeing a lot of Jeffrey Dahmer shit that's inappropriate. I'm seeing people,

Rick Ross said he wants to pair of Jeffrey Dahmer glasses. I saw somebody else, uh, from a different podcast, use a poster of one of the podcast hosts as Jeffrey Dahmer for a joke. You know, this guy. kill 17 people and I think when you bring somebody into the cultural lexicon like this

it gets put in a bucket of all being entertainment so there is a certain it does in a way make this less serious in a way when we start to be entertained by it might not do that yeah for sure and so I would say that yes for once he's halfway on the right side of it but I think that the message needs to be redirected it's not about boycotting it it's about folks on these people who actually were real victims and affected by it. And every single time you sensationalize or put something out in the form of media for entertainment value, you don't realize the impact that you're having on these victims who are still alive, who have to relive this situation.

Nothing's done for them. They aren't warned when it comes out. There's a really interesting LA Times article about it. The families have no idea that this is coming out for pure. entertainment until the rest of us find out until they watch a trailer they're not notified they're not questioned they're not compensated nothing especially you know the viral clip of the young black woman who like totally has a breakdown in the which i never knew about has a breakdown in the that is burned that is burned into my memory as a kid Jeffrey Jeffrey I hate you Jeffrey

don't fuck with me burned into my memory as a kid I remember seeing that and wearing the shirt like that that kind of stuff and it you know people it's going viral and they're watching it for again entertainment but how hard is it for that that that woman and her family to relive that over and over again like they finally feel like okay I can move on this is what the article talks about and then another thing comes out and their phone is ringing people you know what I mean it's it's like they have to relive it all over again. So I would say that Busy's message, yes, is clear or is right to a point, but we need to

refocus on the people who actually are suffering and not entertain when this kind of stuff comes out. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and make it a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream, drips, yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on

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I've heard your call. The call of the wild. I've heard your call. you guys want to know what I think about sneaky mountain lion okay rachel did you see the video security camera video from september 2021 in ohio california an amazing little spot town up near santa barbara a man jogs past full grown mountain lion doesn't even see mountain lion mount lion is how hiding behind the bush just looks at the guy jog and the guy runs right past him when we first start at this podcast i told you that you never knew because the sneaky wily beautiful amazing

majestic mountain lion is out there is this not one question for you a perfect example of what i was talking about when i'm talking about my own line man it's terrifying you realized that i I don't hide because of you. There isn't a bush, a heel that I don't really look at. Ever since we started this conversation about Mountain Lion, where I'm like, there could be one. I don't have a stick. I'm always thinking of what would I do if something happens to me.

You have, yes, Van, you have succeeded in ruining something that people in L.A. love to do. You have ruined this for me as a newcomer to Los Angeles. And seeing a video like this, I mean, that guy has no idea. No clue. And it still might not. He doesn't. He, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he does.

Now, is this an ignorance is bliss situation? Would you want to be this guy who continues to enjoy their, their, their morning runs and unupenones to them, I never want to know. I never want to know. I never want to know. As long as it never. It never. you. You never want to know.

I agree. I never want to know. If I'm that guy, I'd never want to know. Which is why it is so infuriating that you have ruined the experience for me. I'm trying to help you. Do what I'm saying? You never want to know. No, no, I didn't need your help. I never want to know. But you know what? We have to remember

though. We have to remember that my line is not the enemy. Look, look at this beautiful. I love him. Look at this beautiful. It just came to me. What? Oh my gosh, when I saw that picture.

Do you know that during my entire childhood, I had a picture of Mountain Lions over my bed. And I just remembered that until you said it. I'll try to find a picture of it. That's why you were probably pushing it deep, deep, deep down when the first brought this up. It just came back to me. It just came back.

Rachel, could you please introduce this Pek White Mess segment? because this is one of the, this is one of the most interesting ones we've ever done. Is it? Wait, the first one? The first one, yeah. The first one, yeah. All right.

So, we've been getting a lot of peak white mess lately. Really interesting, really interesting topics when it comes to the peak white mess. And for Van, this is one of the most interesting. I would not put it in that category. To me, it's one of the most disturbing. Somebody who we can't see,

to get enough of in the media, but we should. Somebody who keeps making the rounds that we really should let go of is Rachel Dolazal. She's back in the news, and this time maybe not for what you think it might be. But she's back in

because her only fans' pictures have leaked. Now, if you don't remember Rachel Dolazzo, I don't know how you could not. She's a former white N-A-C-P chapter president who made headlines a few years ago when she claimed that she identifies as black. Well, now she has an account and she has some pictures that have gone viral, multiple pictures, as she's 44 years old, not really an issue, she's 44 years old, fine, but she's showing off her savage ex-finti lingerie. Van, you're the one who finds this so interesting.

what might be so interesting about it to you. By the way, you can subscribe to her page from 99. No. Okay, first of all, a couple of things. This is wrong that people have leaked Rachel Dola Zoll's only fans. This is wrong. Okay, she never do it. So first of all, leaking somebody's only fans,

this is supposed to be paid for content. This is wrong that they leaked Rachel Dola Zahaw's only fans. Okay. This is interesting. because it's another salvo in the Rachel Dolazol conversation. I got to be honest with you. I know I say that too much, but the Rachel Dolazol situation has never been as cut and dry

as people wanted to make it seem. Why? Because there's always a gray area, logically. So Rachel Dolazol said that she identified as black. Yes. how do we know that she didn't? Like, how do we... I don't think that's the question or issue that people had.

She might do that. Right. So I guess my thing is, so Rachel Dolezal, she went to Howard, NWACP, all that stuff. If I remember correctly, right? Yes, she feels black. Says that she's black. Don't we have to just go, okay, cool, you're black? No.

because it's got it can't this can't continue well i agree but at the same time it seems as if we're a little picky or a little bit i don't really know the science behind that i don't know the science behind anything all i know is that i try to be supportive of people when they identify something now look i am i i do so you support so you support her I'm not really. I don't. But what I'm saying is like if you've come to me right now and tell me that you identify as a different gender or you identify, like I'm going to support whatever it is that you say that you identify. I want you to be able to live your best self, right? But it seems like it for me personally, it seems like I'm a little bit hypocritical if I only do it when it's not an affront to me. See, Rachel Dolazal saying that she identifies as being black. It's an affront to me because there's a share. trauma and pain and experience that goes along with being black that I don't feel like you can that you can, I don't feel like you can opt into. It's not that I don't want you to be black because being black is awesome. It's like, I don't want you to be black because you can't just turn on everything I've had

to deal with. But at the same time, I don't know how that logic jives with some of the other things that we discuss. You know what I mean? And it's not a one. one to one. It's really, it's not a one to one. But I feel like if she says she's black, I kind of got to like not give a fuck about it and not making a big deal. She's appropriating. Yeah, go ahead. Anybody who says that they feel black doesn't know what it means to be black. That's not black. That's not black. No, no, no. But what if someone, what if someone says I feel like a woman? then are you as a woman can you then say to them hey well you don't really know what it feels like to be a woman

I'm a woman I can tell you what it feels like to be a woman you don't know what it feels like to be a woman so here's the thing what they're going to tell you is I know what it feels like to be a woman because I am one they feel like they're a woman and then they go through the actual change of being a woman not all the time not all the time at all

not like not all not all not all the time like sometimes but not all the time so what by the way i you guys this is a sixth grade conversation please give some grace i'm not i'm not i'm not at all i'm not i'm not comparing the two things in function i'm comparing the two things societally i'm not comparing the two things in function and functionally i'm not saying that hey this is the same as this because gender and sexuality and all of that stuff is so complicated right it's so complicated that it gets down to almost theoretical levels you know it's so complicated right it's very very nuanced race is a social construct that we've made for the purposes of racism there is great area to rachel dolazzo's claim that she's black

black. To me, there is, it's annoying, but it's true. And even in this situation, Rachel Dolez is out there. I would want to know why she feels black.

See, like, I need to, she says it. She identifies. So what my question to her would be, if she was sitting right here, why specifically do you identify as black?

If I heard that, then I could answer her more specifically. That's what I would need to hear. Is it, Because you say you went to an all black school, or HBCU? Is it because you are in the NAACP and then became the president and let it? Is it because you took a certain number of African American studies classes? Is it because you lived in Africa for a certain time?

I don't even know if she has. I'm just saying, I would want to know specifically what, why do you identify as black? Because it's not a lifelong thing for you. It didn't start that. way for you. Well. So what was the? She said she was born black?

It, it. What's she saying? It, it, she claims that for as long, I'm looking at right now, she claims for that as long as she can remember, she always felt like she wasn't white. Now she also has said that she's Native American.

But, but, but. Okay, see, she, you're just discredited already. But look, all of the stuff that she's done, in the NAACP and all of the African American study stuff, that's because she feels black. She's an ally. It's because she's an ally.

And I understand what you're saying. And I definitely see the argument of being made of the great area. But then you just throw in it in and she says she's Native American. Like, I just... She was raised by fundamentalist Christians in the foothills of Rocky Mountain.

She said from her early age, she describes being fascinated with Africa and African American culture. When she was a teenager, her parents adopted four African American teachers. And she says, while I was teaching my siblings about black culture, I began to feel even more connected to it myself. I begin to see the world through black eyes and anything that had to do with blackness or Africa always grabbed my attention. Look, I'm not saying that I'm not offended by Rachel Dolezal because I am. I'm just saying it's great. What's the term? What's the term? I can't think of it at the top of my head where it's in your blood and you feel you feel certain a certain way because trauma exists. Like it's in your DNA. It's called something. I think it's part of the E. It's called something where like the trauma that your ancestors, they dealt with. It's in your DNA. It's in your blood. And so it's the reason that today in 2022, you feel a certain way because of the trauma that your ancestors. ancestors felt.

Rachel don't have that. It's called something. That sounds like some Dr. Umar shit. Shout out to Doc. Sound like some Omar shit. Like what you feel. Epigenetics. Yeah.

That's exactly what it's called. Epigenics. That's exactly what it is. Okay. She definitely don't have that. She ain't black. But it's just interesting, the grace. And even in this.

So everyone's making fun of what happened to her was wrong. Yeah, sure. Rachel Dolazzo has an only fan. It looks as if that. Rachel Dolazal is doing yet another thing to draw attention to herself. I personally believe that if she leaked her own only fans, well, I know a lot of people think that she did that that's wrong.

But if they took her only fan pictures and put them out there, then they're kind of victimized Rachel Dolazol again. I feel like we should have been. Again. I'm telling you. Again. I'll be honest with you. I feel like we should have at least been willing to have the conversation.

Get her on the podcast. I will. You do it. I feel like we should have at least be able to have the conversation. Because once again, I want to give people space to identify as whatever they want to identify as. But I just want to know what, what, how do you do that? Like I don't want, I don't, I'm not going to, I don't consider her to be black. I don't.

But I'm not going to kick her in her ass. But you want to get, if she wants to the space to be black, you want to give that to her. And I'm sure that she's not alone. I'm sure. and wait okay let that catch on let it catch on niggas everywhere we got three different topics here on the nigger word we got oh I gotta play this real quick

Donnie give me the I'm we got three different topics on the word nigger white people still not learning but I gotta let you out hear this this is an actual the video you can see it on the internet but this is actually a salesman that comes to a black man's house This is caught on the rain camera. Listen to this. Hello. Hey, sir.

Hey, how are you doing? Hey, sorry to bother you. I'm Fernando. I work with the big energy. We're in a few doors down. We're in 1845. Okay. So we do solar around here.

We're just coming around talking to niggers. Sorry, dude. Neighbors. I apologize, man. I know. No, man, that wasn't even. Bands laughing. Um, I think this was fake.

You do? I do. It could be. I really think, and I'm surprised more people aren't talking about this. I think this was a gag to go by the social media. I don't believe it. If it is, because if it is, then the brother who is in the sketch needs to be called before the congregation. I do.

We never see him. Yeah. I mean. And then like I guess the energy company that's in the area or that he said he worked for like they're like we don't work in that area. He wasn't even wearing a shirt. Have they said that he doesn't work for them? Yeah. Okay.

Well, then it's probably fake. And that's when I saw it and I was like, I think this is just like pink solar or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. They said that they don't know who this person is and he's not even wearing a shirt from their. company. So I don't believe that. If it's fake, we can't, okay, so look, I'm all good for a good skit.

Y'all, we can't do the traumatizing black people skit by having salespeople say the N-word stuff. I can't, I got to draw the line. That's bad. But you thought it was real. I did. I'm willing to believe anything, though. And it might be.

Do you realize that, look, if you're saying that it's fake, you know, I'm willing to believe anything now when it comes to white people in the N-word. I know there's nothing there's no context in which you could tell me that a white person said the N word and I wouldn't believe it if someone told me right now hey my wife went to labor and I took and we went over to the hospital and the baby was delivered and the doctor smacked the baby and said

oh this nigger can take a licking like I would believe that that happened I would there's no context with the white people saying the N word I wouldn't believe they fucked up every way you can fuck up So funny. All right, mailback. Donnie go. Mailback time. Time to read your letters.

And then we'll reply to them. Oh, it's mailback time. Write us with your queries. And we'll chime in. All right. The first one is from Demar Samantra on Reddit. to ask what is a conspiracy theory that you believe to be true? Oh, Rachel, you got one?

No. I got one. Go. I'm willing to believe that the moon landing never happened. I feel like I've heard you say that. Have we talked about this before? I'm not saying that I full on believe it, but I'm willing to believe that the U.S.

the moon landing. Why? Lots of reasons, man. Lots of things. Never went back to the moon. You know what I mean? Like, the...

What's clear something about the wind? Politically, you know, the wind blowing the flag, whatever, politically, the fact that the space race was existing

simultaneously to the arms race and what that stuff did, how it allowed the United States to spend billions and billions and billions of dollars and everybody had such national pride. I'm just willing to believe, I'm willing to believe that we never, I'm not saying that it's true. If you, like, if you, if you, if you, if you, for a million dollars, we went to the moon.

If you, if a million dollars on the table, but I'm willing to believe the conspiracy theory that we never went to the moon. You don't have one that you believe in. Bigfoot. I fuck with Bigfoot. I think he's real, though. See, I don't even think that that's like a conspiracy theory. I think Bitfoot's real.

I just don't think that we, I just don't think that we made up Bigfoot. I think that Bigfoot's out there, you know, and I, or he was out there. Or he was out there. That's what, he was out there. I love Bigfoot content. You ever see Harry and the Henderson's?

Of course you didn't see it. That's actually what I have seen. I love Harry and the Henderson. I love Harry and the Henderson. Like Harry and the Henderson is so sad at the end when they have to make him leave and he doesn't want to leave. Harry and the Henderson is good. Like I love Bigfoot content.

So Bigfoot, okay, Bigfoot's good. Okay, another one, Donna. Come on. All right. Next one is from Danielle Fraling on Instagram. She asked, what trend went out of style that you wish came back today. The little military things on your shoulders.

Remember that? When they had the little military things on your shoulders in like 2008, 2009. What do you call those E. Paulettes or something? I have no idea. You don't know what I'm talking about? I know what you're talking about. I still know what they're called.

You remember that era? Remember that era when we had those on your shoulders in the shirt? You don't remember that era? Yes. No, I'm agreeing with you. I just don't remember. what they were called. I used to love those. I had several different shirts with those.

What trend? They've all come back. I keep thinking style and I'm like all of the style ones have come back. I can't think on questions today. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Because all I can think is style and I'm like all the shit's come back. I want those to come back. Donnie, do you have one? Donnie, did you have, did you have any old shirts? No, I didn't. But I would like those shirts from like the, I feel like they are starting to come back. Shirts from like the 60s that were like tight.

And they were like a kind of like a cotton vibe to them. It was like a collar shirt that's tight, short. sleeves. I'm describing it and I'm picturing it, but I'm not describing it well. You're describing a polo. So what is a college? No, let them keep going.

It's a specific. It's a college shirt that's a tight. You know in the, um, the 10 pages, psychedelic movie? Oh, I know what you're talking about. Those 60-south shirts.

You're wear it with a chain. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're polos. Donnie, I can see you rocking that. Yeah. Niggas, mad niggas, wear those, though. If you're activists, you wear those shirts.

That's the kind of shit that activists wear. Activists like the dress like they from the season. But you know, I know what you're talking about like sometimes they got the little V in the front. You know, like that. Yeah, they got the collar. Yeah, but mad people wear those though. And by the way, with your hair. Everything comes back.

With your hair, that's the type of sheets you should be wearing. For sure. Yeah, I got to find me one or a couple. Now, I'm going to get you some of those. What size shirt are you, Donnie? A medium. A good medium. A good medium.

What is a good medium mean? was that? Like a medium that's not too big. I'm kind of a slender guy. And I feel like those have to be kind of form fitting. Who I'm kind of a slender guy? I don't have a weight problem. I'll have flappy tities, whatever.

Move on to the next one. All right. Next one is from Cannelope Steve on Reddit. Candelope Steve asked, what was the biggest adjustment you had to make when moving in with your partner? everything. Yeah, man.

Move on. Everything. Yeah. All right. Last one. Tide comedy on Instagram as I feel like this is an easy answer. What's worse? Bubble guts or migraine?

Bubble guts. Migraine debilitating. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, can I be honest with you? I prefer diarrhea. But here's the thing. With like a bubble guts, it's rumbling.

diarrhea like you got to get there fast with a migraine you know what i mean like and you might not make it but let me let me ask you this question though do you prefer diarrhea or do you prefer taking like a normal shit is this is an actual question yeah like do you prefer diarrhea or do you prefer having a like a normal shit i prefer a normal boo-boo donnie what about you it depends there's some kind of satisfaction when there's just a whole lot at once I'm telling me

and you're fully eliminated like you feel and all because like emptied out right because when you take when you take a regular shit you can get and you can take and you can be like god damn

you know I feel like I didn't get it all and you can feel still for like but when you with diarrhea all the gas all the water, all of this is just out. Assuming it's once. Sometimes you need have to push.

Sometimes you need have to push. It just, it just, it comes, it just like comes straight out and they're like, you feel. Well, I mean, if you. Usually you have to keep going. Well, I mean, here's the thing. I'm talking about,

I'm not talking about the frequency here. I'm talking about the methodology of the actual going to the bathroom. It's absolutely disgusting to me. I prefer to be, just get it all out so I could go play basketball. It's like a rage. It's rage.

and I don't like that. It's angry and it's just aggressive. All right. Do you have an unexpected ally of the week? I do. My unexpected ally of the week is Marjorie Taylor Green's husband. He has filed for divorce. And not that I wish divorce on anybody,

but it's one less person supporting Marjorie Taylor Green. And that is a win in my book. I bet you that. niggas all kinds of races, though. That's why they're unexpected. Or maybe he can't take it. Maybe, maybe he's had enough. We don't know.

Irreconsalable difference. Is that what it is? Yeah. Irretrievably, no, they said no, I thought it was irreconcilable differences. No, it's the marriage is irretrievably broken. Okay. Maybe he's had enough of her shit. Look at this beautiful mountain line.

My unexpected ally of the week is Roger Marish Jr., who is, the son of Roger Maris, who used to have the Major League Baseball single season home run record. Okay, 61 home runs. Roger Maris, two-time AL MVP. Fantastic movie, directed by Billy Crystal.

Barry Pepper as Roger Maris. Thomas Jane as Mickey Mantle. The name of the movie is 61. Go watch it. Roger Maris said that Aaron Judge, who is now Yankee that is belting his way, past 61 homers.

It's like he is aiming at the true home run record because Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa and Barry Bonds cheated their way to the record. I like Roger Marys and what he said because it made me go watch videos of Barry Bonds when he was a goddamn behemoth. And I had so much fun on the plane ride over watching Barry Bonds

a fucking mutant human with a twig in his hands destroy baseballs and hit them 9,000 feet. I hadn't watched Barry in so long he was unfucking believable.

And I have no problem with it. He was unbelievable. And I had thought about it. I said, I got talking shit about it. I went back and I watched it. Just Do you remember the year that he hit like 370? He hit like 370, all kinds of walks, fucking like 50 homers or something.

They just wouldn't pitch to him. They walked a run in because Barry was waiting. He was just crushing. And you don't care how he did it. I don't give a fuck about that. I wish I did. I understand why hardcore, I love baseball. I understand why hardcore baseball fans care about that because,

the numbers in baseball means so much. So it's based around the numbers. And if you skew the numbers based on an unfair advantage, people go, ooh, whatever. I don't give a fuck. I used to love watching them just fucking, just listen to the ball coming off the bat when Barry hit, Barry hit a ridiculous homer.

You guys go watch this. Barry steps up to the play in Yankee Stadium and just destroys a ball. Just destroys a ball out to right field. The sound of it was fucking chaotic. It was so fun to watch. So thank you, Roger Mary's Jr. I mean, yeah, what's your unexpected ally of the week? Roger Marys Jr. is my unexpected ally of the week because in hating on Barry Bonds, he made me go watch Barry Bonds.

And it was a whole lot of fun. I love it. Bring back niggers who are 270 with 8% body fat that can hit the baseball 1,000 feet. and take supplements. That's going to do it for us. Take things caps off, but do not stop learning. I am Van Lathen, Jr.

And I'm Rachel and Lindsay. Bye, guys.