Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Joe Manchin Says “No,” and COVID-19 Surges | Higher Learning | The Ringer

Episode Date: December 21, 2021

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay discuss a relationship scenario with producer Trudy Joseph (4:54), before reacting to the rise in U.S. COVID cases and debate the need for another massive shutdown (20:51). Plus, journalist Judd Legum joins the podcast to shed light on Senator Joe Manchin’s decision to pull support from the Build Back Better bill (36:52), and the hip-hop community mourns the death of Drakeo the Ruler (1:06:11).  Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Judd Legum Producers: Trudy Joseph and Donnie Beacham Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Higher learning is on. It is I Van Lathen, Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. Rachel, I'm doing so well in the boxing gym now. I've seen you. Like, I'm, I'm just like in the last couple of weeks.

I'm starting to understand my distance. I'm using my jab more. I'm jumping in. I'm jumping out. You know, I'm just starting to understand how to make openings, set up attacks, reflexes, and stuff like that. It's coming together. That's the best thing I have to say about my weekend.

Yeah, you're ready to fight Jake Paul? We'll talk about it later. My weekend. Well, you know, I was on the family trip at Tennessee, came back, and then went to San Diego for the first time, I might add, just for 24 hours to go see my sororium. sister from Delta Sigma Theta Sorority Incorporated. And we had a fantastic time. I thought about you.

I saw the sea lions and the seals. Exactly. And there's a huge difference. There's a big difference. There's a huge difference from everything, from like the way their skin is to their fins, to their ears or the lack thereof. There was a lot.

The bark, the no bark. I learned a lot. But I had a really good time. And yeah. And now I feel a little under the weather. Oh, wow. Damn. N95.

That's all I wear. I'm saying that's what you need in 95. You got a little touch. I took a test today. Touch. I took a test today. But I'm feeling a little. You're okay?

I don't know. It's a PCR. You don't get it back immediately. I'll hope Even if Even if it does come back with the wrong verdict You'll be okay You'll be okay

You know what I wonder What? Seals and Sealines I wonder what like God was What he was going through She was going through He was going through It was going through

I wonder what was happening up there Why particularly with them Because it's like It's such a small difference You know Because like I'm looking at an alligator I'm looking at a crocodile Crackadale, crocodile.

I spent too much time in South Louisiana. I've seen some crackadiles before. I just wonder, it goes, you know what? I'm going to make one with a flat nose and then one with a more pointier nose. That'll really fuck them up. And then laughing up there. Watch this.

They think they know. Is that what you think he's doing? Yeah. Yeah, it's like, they think they know the difference between these animals. Hey, Moses, come here, bro. Sit down. Watch me fuck him up, bro.

They don't know these animals. And Moses is like, chill. And God's like, hey, I can make as many animals as I like. You don't tell me. Don't you got something to do? Get down there and start walking. Like, I can make as many animals as I want. I like to think of God as someone who like to trick humans.

Because think about it. What's the real difference between a seal and a sea lion? It's like, what's the difference? You know what I'm saying? is like what's the difference between the seal and the sea lion that's for god's amusement he's like hey sailor you thought you seen it all boom sea lion he's up there playing games with us i mean it would it would be nice to know that he has a sense of humor or it has a sense of humor think about it have you ever seen a duck built platypus not in person you've seen the animal before right

I've talked about this before here on the podcast, the duck bill platypus. Think about what was going on when the duck bill platypus was created. That's a funny looking motherfucker right there. Think about it. Put up the picture. Put up a picture. Put up a picture of a duck bill platypus. God calls Mary Magdalene over.

Not Mary Magdal. Stop just name of people from the Bible. Mary Magdalene is in heaven. She did what she was supposed to do. She understood. What did the kids say? She understood the assignment. I'd say that Mary Magdalene understood the assignment.

Speaking to the kids, let's get Trudy in here. Trudy jump on, please. Oh, Trudy, he's never going to let it go. Hey, then. Oh, he never will. Trudy, I have been given a scenario for you, Trudy. Okay. I love a good scenario.

I bet you do. I bet you do. Trudy, I'm going to read this scenario for you. And Rachel, a lot of people have criticized this little part of the podcast. They said all kinds of things about it. But I like this.

What are they saying? They don't like when we bring Trudy in? Well, a lot of people have said that the male, like the dynamic here is very heteronormative. You know, and by the way, I hear that.

I hear that. Okay. But even through those objections, I'm going to pose this both to you and Trudy right here. This is a scenario. The thought words want Trudy and Rachel on this. Really they want Trudy. Keith and Tamika recently married. Tamika is a neurosurgeon and earns $400,000 a year.

Keith is a manager at finish line, a keyholder and earns $44,000 a year. After the wedding that she paid for, Keith moves into Tamika's house. She buys him a new Lexus to replace his old Honda court. Oh, no. And even pays for a two-week honeymoon to Jamaica. Keith loves Tamika with all her heart, all his heart, and vice versa. And they are happy together.

But Tamika's family and friends say she is stupid. Since Keith is the man, is there a problem with their financial arrangement? If they are truly in love, does the money difference make them unequally yoked? Ladies, if Keith, ladies, if you were Tamika or gentlemen, if you were Keith, could you play that role? Wait, where did this come from? This is a meme that somebody sent me and told me to ask Trudy about it. Go ahead, Trudy. Go ahead, Trudy.

Trudy stopped listening after Lexus, because I know I did. Okay. But you know, okay, so. Oh, by the way, the guy who sent this, the guy who sent this, his name is Cool Breeze at Damien Brooks 5 on Twitter. And I'm looking at Cool Breeze right now. He is bald. So the reason why he sent this to Trudy, this dude is probably mad as hell at Trudy. He hates me.

He hates me. He hates me. He hates me. Okay, so the thing that I heard reinforce in this is that Tamika loves him and Keith loves Tamika. And that should be the only thing that matters. So I'm going to say if Tamika likes it, I love it. But it couldn't be me.

And I think that everything's not for everybody, including me being this, you know, super crazy, amazing person, super high of my career. And then he just works at Finch line unless, but also let me be clear because I could always see them trying to come for me. If you want to work at finish line and be the manager and like that's your domain and you love sneakers and whatever, that's cool. But for me, I am attracted to passion and I need you to shoot higher than that. I need you to want to be sitting at the table of, you know, corporate finish line or whatever because that's what is attracted to me. Now again, that's not for everybody because everybody's not Trudy. So, but shout out to the Trudy

tribe because I know y'all feeling on that. So that's my answer. Okay. Okay. Rachel, what do you think? I don't need a man to be a breadwinner. Okay? I don't need the man to be the breadwinner. I'm fine with that. But let's be honest. Tamika's doing the most.

And if you allow, like, it's one thing to do some things for your man, but I guess I just have an issue that she's doing everything. And how is he ever going to strive to contribute or strive to be, like, to put, into this relationship financially if you're always doing everything for him. Why would he do any better? Now maybe for Tamika, that's okay. But I have a feeling that after time, Tamika's going to start to resent him.

What's his name? His name is Keith. Keith. Keith. Keith, Keith, your day is coming, dog. Yeah, there's going to come a time and it's coming soon. Okay. Well, I'm going to

ask the question. If these roles are reversed, is this sort of dynamic that you and Trudy are talking about? Is it the same? If Keith is the breadwinner and she works at finish line and Keith is paying for everything and Keith is doing all of that stuff, is it then can Keith then lord over her or can Keith then is he, if the man is the primary bread winner,

is it in his right to whip her into shape and expect her to do more and expect it or is that more traditional sort of dynamic not as appalling or undesirable to ladies and to society? Trudy. Trudy, this ain't our fight. Trudy don't ask.

This ain't our battle. We are not supposed to answer that question. No, no, no. What are you're talking about? Male versus female one. But I will say this. Wait, wait, wait, wait. How can you opt out on the question?

The question is, in that situation, it seems like it's, it's not okay. Do you have a problem with it if it's the other way? It's what I'm asking you guys. Okay, so I feel like this is boiling down to like breadwinner. And I'm in Rachel's camp where I don't need the man to be the breadwinner because I'm going to keep it funky. I'm 26 and I'm leaps and bounds ahead of most men that are 20s. So I'm already in my head knowing that financially, I'm probably going to be the one that's making most of the money. Like I don't have an issue with that.

Like that is not at all at all like my fight, my issue, my anything. But again, I think that whether you're a male, whether you're a female, whether you don't identify as anything, I think that passion is universal. And you have to be passionate about something and want to aspire to be something in order for me to even say. finding with charges. And that's just me. What if you're passionate, but not successful? There's a different. What if you're a baby? Okay. Oh, whoa, whoa, hold on, hold on, hold on.

Hold on for a second. Hold on. Yeah. This is what was said. What was said was, was he was going to have to want more. He's going to have to sit at the board of finish lines. So let's think about this. Let's think about this.

So that that means that Keith, who started working at finish line because he wanted to discount on the shoes. In order for him to be a good mate, Keith has to work his way up from finish line, part-time employee to manager, to assistant manager,

to assistant manager, to district sales manager, to district ops manager, to district head. Then he has to make it to the board of finish line. That means Keith is going to be an acceptable mate

some way in his early to mid-50s if it's going to happen or 60s even to work your way up for that from flipping the fries to being the CEO of McDonald's it's going to take a long time right so what I'm saying is if the passion is there and the success is either slow or it doesn't come what then it's not okay for sure to okay so the passion is there I'm gonna keep it funky like is it's finished line his only journey. Maybe you got to test someone else. Maybe you got to shake another tree.

Like, to me, I feel like I'm going to do everything that I can to help you succeed, like 100%. I'm here to support you and everything. But I think also part of having a successful and healthy relationship is being honest with your partner when, you know, something just ain't for you. Like, I dated a guy that was a rapper, you know. He didn't make amazing songs. but I did at a certain point.

I was like, yeah, listen, maybe we should consider, you know, different facets of the music industry. Maybe you can be a writer. Maybe you can be a producer. Oh, my God, you make dope beats. Like, I'm here to just open your mind to all the possibilities. So, like, do you want to be at the board of finish line or do I want you to be at the border finish line? That's the conversation that him and I need to have.

And once we get clarity on that, then we can move forward. You like my political answer, right? Very well said. No, very well said. that, Rudy, because it is hard to believe that your only ambition in life is to work at finish line. No, no, no. It might not be your only ambition,

but what if you like your job? But you might like it, but is that it for you? Like, is that your only ambition? No, you want to go as far as you can in finish line. But if this is Keith, I have, and Tamika is doing all of that for him, I guarantee you that Keith is like, why I got to achieve so much more? You can't guarantee that. Because Tamika's out here.

doing everything for me. That's all she's ever shown. Let me tell you what the real thing is. Why don't we just keep dancing, stop dancing around it. The world does not like a do nothing man. They don't. Like more than anything. And by the way, and that's, and by the way, when we talk about equally yoked and

equality and stuff, I keep telling, I remember when I was at LSU and there were girls that will talk about Coach Saban. There are girls that would talk about Coach Saban. Coach Saban was a little younger. And there would be girls walking around LSU that would talk about they want to fuck Nick Saban, right? And

the homies when we would be having these conversations, you'd be like, you only want to do that because he's rich. And I would be like, no, it's not because he's rich. It's because Nick Sabin has power. It's because Nick Sabin seems stable. Nick Stabon is a

Nick Saban is a leader. Nick Saban is all of those things. And like even if you have a lot of money and you have security, it's not sometimes that they like you because you have money. Sometimes that's actually an attractive like thing in a woman. Like that's an attractive trait in a man.

He's secure. He's powerful. He's headstrong. He's a leader. All things other than the physical. They were just too young. I'm like they no, no. I'm saying they're really attracted to him. They're they really like him. I would be, it would be weird for Nick Saban to have sex with the co-eds at LSU, just like it's weird for the president to have sex with the interns. It's not a power dynamic that shouldn't be explored. But I'm saying all that to say that like on the inverse, that doesn't

exist. Not really, not that I've ever heard. I can't speak for for a dude who looks at like Angela Merkel or somebody like that. That's not to dis Angela Merkel and go, yo, I'm attracted to her because she runs Germany. You know what I mean? And I think a lot of times when we talk about these dynamics, we have to talk about what the real of it is, and the real of it is, being a do nothing man, no matter how much you love your woman, no matter how much, even if you're going to say to and raise the kids, for a lot of women and the society is something,

being a man who's looked as a do nothing man, it's unattractive. And that is because, but that's because of the acceptance of a gender role. But here's the, but I... That is the part that people don't want to talk about. That's the, that's the, that's the acceptance of a gender role. Here's the man question. This is the man question. This is the man question. This is, and this is why I said, Trudy, this isn't our fight, and it's hard for us to answer this

because you say that, but is that, is it us putting those pressure as women putting those pressures on you, those gender roles, or is that you putting that on yourselves? Because you have to ask men, what type of women do they want? Because I will tell you, I used to always say that men love the idea of me and not the reality of me. Because they say that they want this type of, they say that they want this type of woman who does this, oh, you're a lawyer. Oh, you do this, but then when it comes to the actuality of dating me and what I have to do to upkeep this career or this status that I have, they don't like it. They want me, they would rather have me home more and more available more. And so I think that it is men who put that pressure,

that pressure on themselves. Like what is the man attracted to? But those are two different things. So if I, so what you're talking about right now is if you're saying that a guy is mad because you're successful or did you make more money than him. That's different than a guy not wanting to be with someone who has, because we see that on the other side, right? If you play in the NFL, you got to be gone from your family a lot. You got to be on the road. Like, even for me sometimes, there's a lot of stuff.

There's a lot of times I have to be unavailable. Like, not everybody wants that. We're not talking about necessarily a success thing. We're talking about what kind of lifestyle do you want. And there are some men and some women, to be honest with you, that want their mate hyper-executive. at all times. And especially if you're a man and like sometimes your girl isn't around because she's doing luxurious, glamorous things, it does take a certain kind of guy. But we're talking about a do nothing man and a do nothing like a woman who's not doing anything. Men like that. Men like

their woman to be more like more available, more accessible. That is that has been my experience in dating prior to marriage for sure. So it is on the same thing. It is on the same level. Because I'm saying that that is, you have to ask a man, what are they attracted to? When you say that they're these gender roles and these gender stereotypes, are men, are men attracted to women with ambition? Are they more attracted to a woman who is more accessible? Who is doing nothing? Let me be honest with you.

Let me be honest with you. For the guys that I know, it doesn't really matter. It's nice. Like for the, for the guys that I know. Like for me, I just, I like to talk too much. you have to be able to meet me intellectually and challenge me and all of that stuff. Because if not, I'm just going to run you off. But for a lot of the guys that I know, it doesn't really matter.

And the reason why it doesn't matter is because there are other things that matter, right? Because of gender roles and things that we don't talk about. There are other things like, oh, is she going to be a good wife? Is she going to be a good mother? Is she going to be able to do this? Is she compassion? Is she nurturing? Because a lot of times men look at women as accessories and not people.

So like what you look for is somebody who can fit into your transformer lock rather than someone who is going to re-transform you. And so, and to be real with you, this is when we have these conversations, this is what I'm talking about. In the Keith and Tamika situation, Keith is fitting into her transformer lock. He's not trying to reform her. He's saying, baby, I like you just the way you are. She's saying, I like you just the way you are. She's going to get tired of it. I'm telling you.

Mad, Mad day is coming. Keith, watch it back, bro. His days are number. You better have everything done because the day you don't have it done, Tamika, going to let you know, nigga. All right. Thank you, Trudy. Love to see how they do that one.

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Bonus is non-withdrawable and expires seven days after receipt. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See terms at fandual.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. Okay, we are going to talk about Senator Joe Manchin and his bombshell announcement on on Fox News Sunday a little later on the podcast. We have a guess for that.

Jud Legum is going to join us a little later on in the podcast. We're going to give you all the need to know. But politics aren't going to matter if you can't breathe. And that might be tough to do because Omicron is out here in these streets. Omicron and Delta have joined together like fucking Hulk Hogan and Randy Macho Man Savage, the mega powers. And they're doing that thing. Corey Booker has tested positive for COVID.

Senator Elizabeth Warren has tested positive. for COVID. COVID. Now, it is unknown whether or not they've tested positive for the new variant. I haven't seen anything to suggest they have,

but the double-wame of Delta and Omicron is going to be a problem. The NBA postponed some games. It looks like we might be on the road to another shutdown, at least temporarily.

Rachel, are you in favor of a shutdown or not? No, I'm not in favor of a shutdown just because of I was always of the belief even last time When they shut it down the first time I was for it When they opened things back up

And then they shut down again I was against it once you open it up You got to keep it open up But we need to put certain protocols in place To keep people safe Especially people who are frontline workers I just don't think the economy can handle it If we shut everything down again

Businesses can't people can't I mean we're already trying to take away Some of the benefits we gave to people back in 2020 To help them survive We're already you know Loans we just talk on the last podcast loans are starting back in a couple of months i i i'm not in favor of a shutdown but i'm but i'm nervous when dr fouchy says that covid is quote raging around the world raging that is such a strong

word that means it is out here it is rampant it is out of control it is unpredictable it i mean it's wild is what he's saying that is a scary thought thought. And I know that, you know, when you talk about, like, people are like, listen, the flu happened, came about 1918, and it's still around with us. I think it's, it's hard to think that, you know, COVID is going to be here. It's here to stay. But then when you make progress and then all a sudden, you know, then you hear about Delta and you hear about the Omicron variant, now we're seeing very similar to what we saw when this all started happening again, it's scary. I know so many people who have it right now.

And a lot of the people I know who have it, it's a second time having it. And what people are talking about are the lingering effects. I have a friend whose mom got it. She has diabetes now. She is not overweight. Diabetes is not running the family

and her eyesight is diminished. Like tremendously. So you just, you know, scared the shit out of me. I think a lot of people probably. So knowing, everything that you know and everybody who's catching it, then why aren't you good with a shutdown for a little while?

Shut it down for a month? Because it's here to stay. I guess maybe there's certain things that could shut down. You know, like maybe entertainment-wise, sure. But I just don't see. We've had a shutdown before and then we opened up and we shut down again. And it didn't convince people to get vaccinated anymore. It didn't convince people to want to wear their mask.

It only enraged people. So if you can convince me that a shutdown is actually going to be beneficial, you know, maybe it does relieve the hospital. Of course it would be, of course it would be beneficial. It helps flatten the curve a little bit. It will help, I think, hospitals and doctors and nurses in that sense. But I guess I'm more so thinking of it economy-wise and people losing their jobs. And I guess I'm, and I don't mean to ignore our healthcare workers. It's too many jobs.

These motherfuckers, like you go to the Krispies. cream and to the thing out there I mean it's jobs like there are jobs obviously we don't want anything to happen to the economy but if they shut down if businesses shut down then there aren't jobs there aren't jobs I'm talking about now and I don't mean and I am not trying to ignore what the what our

health care workers have to go through by any means and I understand the benefit of a shutdown in regards to that it's just I would want there to be more of a plan than just like we're shutting down I guess you know It just needs to be structured. I mean, I would want there to be more of a plan too. But I guess my frustration is why isn't there a plan?

Everyone keeps telling us that this is going to happen again. There's going to be a big surge. And when the surge comes, it seems like everybody's like, oh, shit, shit going crazy. And then that's all they say. Very true. It's like, hey, man, go out there and get vaccinated. Also, there's going to be vaccination fatigue too. Because, you know, I know people who have been double vaccinated.

that obviously have caught it. I know people, I had a friend of mine whose father was double vaccinated and boosted and he died. So after having got COVID after that. So what I'm saying is like Americans are going to start to want to know

to what degree. This is Van Lathen saying get vaccinated. This is Van Lathen saying get boosted. Please relax. But I think as more breakthrough cases come, people are going to want to know exactly what the fuss is about, you know? And if it's to stop it from mutated,

I think there needs to be plain talk about that. Maybe there is the plain talk. I think like many people had sort of moved on from COVID a little bit. I was like, all right, cool. You know, I went to a bowl game. You know, I went to see Spider-Man a couple of times, you know. And so I had moved on, you know, from COVID.

And it's right back. And we're going to be right back as long as this problem continues to linger. And maybe it is around forever. or maybe there are things to be done that we're not doing. But I do find it kind of odd that like you're just completely anti-shedown. I just. You and Ron DeSantis in the same boat there, huh?

Sure, Van. Me and Ron DeSantis. Should I quote Martin? Should I quote Martin Luther King Jr. as well? No, but I feel what you're saying, though. I feel what you're saying, though. It's, um, it's very scary. It's very scary

But I do think some of the larger things I don't think we necessarily need to be packing people Into NFL stadiums I don't think we necessarily need to be having Huge huge NBA games Stuff like that You know there should be contingency plans in place To make sure that we're not needlessly spreading

The virus over stuff that we could do without for a couple of weeks You know up to a month I'm sure All right Now we talk about boxing Talk about it. Jake Paul fought Tyron Woodley On Saturday night.

Second time. Second time. They fought to a draw, excuse me now a draw. They fought to a decision victory earlier this year. Jake Paul was supposed to fight Tommy Fury. Tommy Fury hurt himself in training.

Tyron Woodley got his opportunity for a rematch. top three bottom sports moments of my life bottom wow yeah did you bet on the game yeah i mean the game the match didn't bet no tiring for a while just do some stuff with us over at tm z he's a great guy he's a great family all that stuff is great he's a hard worker if we're being real jake looked horrible in most of the fight. He looked bad. Like out of shape?

In most of the fight. He looked a little gassed. Okay. Wasn't really doing much. The fight itself wasn't very good. And then all of a sudden, bang. It was like watching roots. Not roots.

I'm telling you. It was like watching roots. Cast it. Who was Tyrant? I don't want to cast Tyrant is that. I don't want to say it. But you know the feeling that you get. when you just watch white people

fuck over black people and you're like damn I wish I could do something he was Toby you're like I wish stop I'm not gonna say that you're like I'm like damn I wish I could do something man I'm like fuck that shit look like I wish there's something that I could do yeah I wish that like I hope you just want something bad to happen Jake Paul jumping around he twists his ankle

or something you just want something somebody looking at ancestors put their hands on them didn't happen Tyron got knocked out cold. Really a knockout of the year. Knockout of the year contender. Did you see the fight? No. Did you see the knockout?

Yes. It was quick. Your thoughts. I mean, bang, bang. I had to keep rewinded because I was like, gosh, he got him quick. I mean, there was no stumble. There was no fallback. He said, pow, and he hit the floor.

Boom. Hit the ground. Out, cold. arms to the side face down. Why are you so happy that that happened to Tar? I'm not happy. I just was taking them back because we've seen, I mean, I've seen Jake Paul fight before. And, you know, it's like it goes to, you know, a decision.

From what I've seen, I haven't seen like the beginning fights. I think he's knocked out somebody before. He slept three people. Oh, wait, Nate Robinson. I'm forgetting. I'm forgetting Nate. He slept, he slept Ben Ashwood and now you slept Tyne. I didn't see Ben, but I forgot about Nate.

Here's my question. How tall does Tyron stand and what is his weight? Tyron is about 5-10, 5-11, something like that. He probably is around 190. And what's Jake? Jake is a little bit more like probably like 6-1 and then around the same weight, but he probably walks around a little bit bigger. That's a big weight for Tyron, a really big weight for Tyron.

Exactly. If they were really, they're real boxers, if they were really in a match, would they be in the same class? No. Tyron Woodley fought, if Tyron Woodley would be cutting weight

from where he is right now to go to a lower weight class. He fought at a lower weight class when he was in the UFC. He would be a really, really small cruiser rate. Remember a cruiser weight. The weight classes go in boxing,

they go up to 168, super middleweight, is light heavyweight. And then between light heavyweight and heavyweight, you have cruiser weight, which is, like, north of 175 all the way up to around 200 pounds. So those are guys are tweeters. They're not quite big enough to be heavyweights, but they don't want to cut weight to fight at 175. Is Jake over two?

Jake is in the cruiserweight division, right? So if he fought a real cruiser weight, he'd be fighting a guy that would be a borderline heavyweight, and the guy would probably be way too big and way too. skilled. If Jake Paul was going to fight, he probably, probably would be a guy who would move down to 175 if he was a real boxer. And so that's, I guess, where I'm going with this. Has Jake Paul fought anybody in his weight class? Yes. He's fought guys. How about this? He's fought guys that are in his same weight, not necessarily guys that are in his weight class. Okay. So when they're there, they're in the weight class, but they're not naturally.

The way a boxing weight class works is like there's a weight that you walk around it and there's a weight you cut to. You know how that goes. Yeah. Yeah. And so, so Jake would normally, if he would not want to be in there against real cruiser weights. And he certainly, certainly would never think of fighting a heavy weight. Right. Yeah.

That's what I want to see. And I'm not trying to take. I mean, he knocked him out. We've seen him knock other people out. Like I said, I totally forgot about Nate. I want to see him fight somebody in the same class. That's what I just want to say. I just really do.

That I'll watch. Well, no, no, no. I mean, a lot of people are saying that what they, same class, whatever, but if he fought like a real cruiser way prospect that had five or ten fights. For Jake and BJ, Jake takes the sport very seriously. He really does. And he's got a legit hard right hand.

I mean, you can't fake what he did. You hit somebody, you turn their lights out like that. Like, you had to hurt him. You had to hurt them. A lot of people out there are saying the fight is fixed. I don't think the fight was fixed. I don't think Tyron dropped his hand on purpose.

I think Jake got him with a good shot. And anybody just hit with a good shot, you can go to sleep. But I will say this. Jake Paul is the most consequential fighter in the world. He is at this point right now, Jake Paul is the biggest star in boxing. Yeah. I'm not going to argue with you on that. Jake Paul is the closest thing right now

is the closest thing that boxing has had to a superstar since Floyd Mayweather. Because when Floyd Mayweather would fight, a large number of people will watch the fight to watch Floyd win, but an even larger group will watch the fight to watch Floyd lose. And there hasn't been a fighter that's that consequential

in boxing since that Jake Paul, not in skill, not in ring smarts, not in pedigree, not in accomplishments, not in seriousness. But in terms of in popularity

and just the consequential nature of who they, consequential nature of who they are, Jake Paul is the biggest boxing star since Floyd Mayweather. And it's just weird. And a knockout like that just further solidifies.

Absolutely. That fight. I was looking at that fight. Like, this might be near to him. This is boring. But then boom, turns his lights out, and now you got to watch the next one. And now you have to watch the next one. Very good point.

So the next one, is he fighting Levi-on-Bel? Levy-on-Bell tweeted out that he wants to fight Jake Paul. Leveon-Bel's been boxing for a while, and he's a big guy. I know that, yes. There was a fight on the undercard, Darren Williams and Frank Gore, which was wildly entertaining. Some of the worst boxing I've ever seen. Did you say Frank Gore? Frank Gore, yeah.

And who? And Darren Williams fought. Darren Williams from the Utah Jazz and the Nets fought Frank Gord. The light-skinned one? Yeah. From Texas? He beat him by split.

Yeah, he beat him by split decision. Yeah. Fought Frank Gore? Fought Frank Gore. He beat him by split decision. It was wildly entertaining, terrible boxing. That's what we're, that's what you want. That's what people want now.

People want spectacle. I don't want to see them fight. And that had no. idea. Wow. They fought that same night. Yeah, so Leveon Bell called out Jake Paul. Jay Paul then curved the Levinon Bell and said that he should fight Tyron Woodley. Like fights like that, big guys, athletic guys who can handle themselves, I don't think BJ and Jake are going to take too many of those. But hey, you never know. You never know. Be on a look out for Nick Young next year.

Who's he fighting? Don't worry about it. We got some stuff cooking. Nick Young. You fighting? You're fighting him? No. You said wait. Me and Nick box out in the same gym. Like the Paul brothers be scared, very concerned with Nick Young.

Not so much Jake, but Logan. Nick Young. Nick Young is coming. All right, let's take a break. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Trimfaya offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start.

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already trust Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. Okay. Senator Joe Manchin is going nuts. He's doing this thing.

It's being an obstruction. and we wanted to make sure that you had a political insider to be able to walk you through what's going on so we were able to get somebody in to help us do this the guy's name is jud legum he writes a political newsletter called popular information uh he's been on top of what's going on in washington um all sides of political spectrum he joins us today for there are a lot of ancient people out there a lot of ancient thought warriors out there who are listening to this um from somebody who knows how things go in Washington, would you say right now that the Biden administration is on life support? Well, you know, he's got a couple more years left at least, but I think that this bill, build back better bill,

the reconciliation package, whatever you want to call it, it had pretty much all of the signature policy initiatives that Biden has been talking about. You know, whether that's climate change, extension of the child tax credit, which is a big one, because that's been a big driver to reduce child poverty, which I think Biden wants to make really his signature economic achievement. It has, it had universal pre-K. It had support for child care. Just a whole bunch of stuff. It was all packed in there. And if none of that is going to happen, yeah, that would be a huge setback.

And I think the other thing, the other question is, and I think the reason why people are being somewhere, fatalistic about it is, if this fails, then what's next? Because it's not like there's something else that's easier that you can just go to. A lot of people are talking about, well, maybe now we can go to voting rights, which they need to do because it's a big problem. But that's going to be even harder to achieve because you're not going to be able to do it through this process where you just need 50 votes in the Senate. You're going to need 60. And that's just not happening. So I do think it's a big problem, which is why you're hearing from the Biden administration that they're going to continue to work on it because I don't know if they really got a plan B.

Judd, it's interesting. I have a question on what you said, but I want to go back because it was the announcement on Sunday that really, you know, like got everyone in a, in a tizzy because he went on Fox News. So we have Senator Joe Manchin. a centrist, a Democratic or Democrat senator or Democratic senator from West Virginia. And he goes on Fox News to make this announcement before even personally talking to President Joe Biden. It's my understanding. A staffer may have given notice like 30 minutes before or something like that. But after President Joe Biden invited him to his home, they talked it out, I believe it was around October. And then all of a sudden he goes

on Fox News, is he drawing a line in the sand specifically by going on Fox News to make this announcement without any notice, personal notice, to the White House, to President Joe Biden, to the administration, is he pretty much saying where he stands? Yeah, I think it's the nuclear option, you know, because Joe Biden himself has staked a lot and spent a ton of time with Joe Manchin. He also, and this is important to keep in mind when they were talking about, the transportation bipartisan transportation package, which did pass. A lot of the progressives in the House were saying we don't want to do this because we think we're going to lose our leverage and that this package, which was the one that was the most important, would not pass. And Joe Biden said,

you have to trust me. I'm going to get this pass. I can work with Joe Mansion. So to go from there and then to have Joe Manchin make the announcement, not deliver the news to the president himself, but to go on Fox News and just say, this isn't happening. Yeah, I think he was trying to say that he was stupid, he was incredibly pissed off. And I think it raises the question of whether he really wants to get to yes on this and what his motivations really are. Because to me, for couple of months, he hasn't been acting like somebody who wants to get the yes on this package. He makes some demands. It was $3.5 trillion.

He wanted to get it to $1.5 trillion. He got it to pretty much what he wanted, $1.75 trillion. And then it wasn't structured the right way. So every time they meet him where he wants to be, there's another set of demands. And I think it does raise the question of where Joe Manton really wants to. wants to go on this. And I don't know that he really wants to get a yes from anyone because Biden has pretty much been willing to do whatever he wants, you mansion wants with this bill up to up to a point and that it just changes. I saw some polling that said 68% of West

Virginians actually support the bill. If I can see that polling, then certainly Senator Manchin can see it. My question to you would then be, what does he want? What are the roadblocks that are stopping him from not wanting to get this done? And if he doesn't want to get it done, then the answer that a lot of people are wondering is why? Is he tried to torpedo the Biden administration? Is he in the pocket of special interests, corporate special interests, as some people are alleging? What is the holdup with Senator Mansion?

Well, I do think you have to look at the energy stuff that's in this bill. And his connections to the coal industry, that his family, he started a number of coal companies, companies that work with the coal industry. his son now runs those companies. He continues to receive dividends from those companies. And the one thing that he pointed out in his statement, the one specific thing, he didn't talk about universal pre-K, didn't talk about the child tax credit, didn't talk about any other stuff.

But he said, you know, almost sounded to me like one of those ExxonMobil commercials you might see on TV, that, you know, the companies are working on it. The free market is working. And what this is going to do is just accelerate things too, fast and get in the way of a transition that's already happening. And if you look at all the people who used to be Mansions Chief of Staff, all of the people who used to work with him, the people he remains in touch with, many of them are now lobbyists who represent the fossil fuel industry. And so these folks, these are the folks, they definitely do not want this bill to pass. So if he's

listening to them, he would do what he can not to create a compromise and get something done, he would try to kill the bill. So I think that's the question. Is he doing the bidding of the lobbyists, a lot of people who used to work for him, who remain in touch with him, who are donating lots of money to his campaigns? Or is he trying to find some sort of centrist compromise position. And, you know, I think you're right that it's not an issue of his constituents are going to get super upset with him if he votes for this because the provisions are pretty popular. And in fact, they would benefit people in West Virginia more so than almost any other state. Now, if you're talking about the child tax credit, you know, taking a chunk out of

child poverty, there's very few places in the United States that has more child poverty than West Virginia. And I think this is what's the scary part what I'm seeing with all of this, too, is my question is, how much power does this say that Senator Joe Manchin truly has? Because as we're seeing the White House put out a statement and pretty much kind of fight back to what Joe Manchin said on Fox News, at the same time, they're saying that they have to play nice because they need him to vote on other matters. So I guess going back to the original question, how much power does he really have because they're still talking about they need him in order to move forward on other

things? He has a ton of power now and it's pretty much by accident. You know, if you remember after the November election, the Democrats only had 48 seats. And there were there, there's two seats in Georgia. And no one really thought the Democrats were going to, they thought they might lose both of them, you know, but no one really thought that they were going to win both. They thought maybe they could win one. And so people were expecting that Mitch McConnell would be the majority leader. And if that were the case, Joe Manchin would basically have no power. No one would care what he thinks. No one would be consulting with him. He wouldn't be important. But in this very specific instance that we're living in right now, and it'll be the case, you know, that reality will probably

stay for another year. He is extremely important because except for, you know, Senator Stanma out of Arizona, pretty much all the other Democrats are on board with Biden's agenda, and all the Republicans are opposed. And so you need all 50 of those votes, and he's, he's exercising that power. And I think that's what a lot of people are upset about, you know, he does not require to support any particular policy to need. He could just come out from the beginning and said, you know what, I'm not doing this. But he has been indicating because it does put him in a position of power of saying, hey, I can work with you. We can get there. You just need to make this change. You just need to make

that change. And he stayed right in the center of all this attention and power and prestige. It's unclear if he's really doing so in good faith. But I think the answer is incredibly powerful. And yes, the White House is going to continue to try to work with him, no matter what he does or says. I have two more questions for you. The first being, if the White House is going to continue to try to work with Senator Mansion, what is their nuclear option? Is there a carrot or a stick that the White House can use in relationship? ship to Senator and Mansion or, you know, period.

You hear a lot of people talking about, oh, this is why we need to get rid of the filibuster, and this is why we need to do this, and this is why Biden needs to play hardball, because here's the thing. Joe Manish or to know Joe Manchin, if President Biden doesn't get his agenda passed, it's going to be seen as a failing on President Biden. Do they have any way to really bully this through? Is there anything that they can do? how much of a failing is this on the administration itself?

I don't think they have a lot of leverage. You know, that's part of the problem. Politically, Joe Biden benefits, even if this particular bill is popular, politically, he benefits from the idea that he's independent because West Virginia is a Republican state. So at the worst, this is going to be a wash for him. and it's very unlikely that he can, you know, the Democrats are going to have any better options in West Virginia, you know, even in a primary situation for him because he's popular. So, I mean, that's part of the problem, you know, and that's why they've had, that's why this has been, they've wanted to get this done, you know, in the fall, by Thanksgiving, by Christmas, all this. and they can't do it and they keep on having to try to work with him to try to cajole him

because there's really no no way to pressure him. I suppose you could try to find some projects and things that he wants in West Virginia. The problem is he got all of those things in the transportation bill, which already passed. So they gave up a lot of the leverage and that's a lot of the stuff that the corporations, and that's another part of this story is that all of corporate America is is lobbying against us. They're spending millions of dollars. They're in, you know, mansion's ear, but they're in everyone's ear, you know, trying to defeat this. And all of the leverage that you might have to bring them into the fold was also given away with the, with the transportation.

I just feel so hopeless, Jed. I just feel. And it's, and you said it at the beginning in the first question of very, asked is that we still have two more years with Biden, give or take. And it doesn't seem like anything's going to get done in the way that Senator Joe Manchin is moving. And I guess for me, the question is, this is my last question? Isn't it very obvious what he's doing? Isn't he putting, is it this going to be bad for him in the future if he decides to run again in his state? Because this bill would benefit so many people in his state, whether it's on the health,

health care side, whether it's with child poverty. And then he talks about the constant spending or we're spending too much, but you tweeted about how a bill that passed in the House and overwhelmingly passed in the Senate, with $768 billion in defense spending, and no one said anything about that it was inflammatory or its cost over 10 years. Yet here we are with Joe Manchin, asserting that very thing to pass this bill. I guess I'm just like, isn't it obvious what he's doing here? And I don't understand why people aren't are grasping it. Yeah, I think it is obvious. I think that the people in his state, West Virginia, aren't always voting in their interests. And therefore, he doesn't have too much to worry about. And this is a state that overwhelmingly votes for,

voted for Trump. They voted for Trump in 2016. They voted for Trump in 2020. They'll vote for Trump in 2024 or whoever, you know, is the is the Trump-esque candidate who gets the Republican nomination. So for better or for worse, he doesn't have to worry about it. I will let me let me give you something that's a little more hopeful, you know, since we're all, you know, talking about the negative here. There is a chance that a bill gets put together and that it has to be a has some good things, you know, maybe it has the child tax credit, climate stuff. Maybe it's got the pre-K thing seems to be something that Manchin that would be important, but also something that Manchin does support. It's possible that that comes together. I mean, I think that's certainly

Biden's intention is to take another run at this and try to get something in the new year done as quickly as he can. And he essentially ran on the idea that. that he knows how to deal with people. He was a senator for all these decades and that he can do it. So I am not incredibly optimistic that Manchin wants to do anything meaningful. And, you know, I've been kind of worried about this for a while, but I figure, well, somebody must know something because they keep on sort of going along with this. But, you know, there's a chance. You know, there's a chance that that happens and you know I think that would that would open up the door for maybe some more productive things happening over the course of the over the year so we'll

have to see I don't think it's totally dead in the water but it's it's a tough it's a tough time you know it's a tough time and you know you'd hope that at the end of the day people would come together and try to meet some of the real needs that people have. And at the end of the day, he does put his constituents first. But we've seen a lot of that not happening, but there is still a chance. Last question. Quick one. You are now the president of the United States of America.

Joy, that's what I can do on my podcast. I can make you the president. That's how strong me and Rachel are in the thought words. you're now the president. You're in this very situation. You have congratulations, Judd. You're the president. You're the God.

What would you do? I think you need to. I would, like they're doing, try to give this a last shot. But I do think you need to time limit it. So, you know, I would come in early January. get Manchin over to the White House and just say, hey, let's get into this room and let's just keep going until we find something that we can do. And if it doesn't work out, then you've got to move on.

Because there is an opportunity cost. There are things you can do outside of talking to Joe Manchin when you're the president of the United States. So you can't keep on going around and around and around forever. So I wouldn't let him run out the process. That's kind of what Manson's been talking about today. I get him into a room. I try to get down the brass tax. I think Manchin has really resisted that, but that's what I would try to do because I think

the issues are too important to totally give up on it. But at the same time, if you're not going to get there, you got to figure that out quickly and move on to the next thing. Wait, Judd, I have a quick question. Sorry, really quickly. You tweeted this and I just want to know this really quickly. How likely is it that Senator Joe Manchin really told other senators that he believed that the money for the child tax credit would be used for drugs and that he said when it came to paid leave that they would go hunting? I think it's pretty likely. That was reported by the Huffington Post, but it's very consistent with what he's been saying publicly, which is that he wants a work requirement added to this child tax credit, which the idea is, you know, and this is a trope that's been, you know, kind of laundered through political circles for hundreds of years that people who are poor are poor because they are lazy, you know, not because they've got, you know, a health condition or family to take care of or.

other circumstances that are beyond their control, but because they're lazy, you know, and that's the kind of stuff, you know, that he's been talking about. And so I think it's pretty likely that that was said. The political newsletter, it's called Popular Information. You can sign up at popular.com. Popular.com. Sign up. You'll be on top of all things, politics. One day I'll tell you how I know Judge and how we first the story that we first were connecting on, but that's a story for another day. That's a story for another day.

We thank you so much for joining us on higher learning. And, you know, if we have more questions, would it be cool for us to invite you back on and maybe talk to our guys? This was fun. Thank you so much, Judd. Thanks a lot. Okay, so before we get off Joe Manchin,

oh, crazy Joe, Joe, Joe Manchin. Did you see the exchange between Charlemagne the God and Vice President Kamala Harris? Did you see this? I did. How could I miss it? It was everywhere.

Did I call her Kamala? It's Kamala. It's Kamala. Why did I just do that? Because you're disrespectful. Joe Manchin's spirit. I'm disrespectful. You have a whole A.k.a. bias towards her.

Nope. You're the one who asks questions about her. Nope. I know. I can see it. I can see it. When I mentioned her name, you get uncomfortable. Kamala Harris.

They went back and forth. Question for the thought warriors. I'm going to let you guys hear this in case you didn't hear it. And then the question is, is this question from Charlemagne, fair or unfair? And is the response from Kamala, fair or unfair? Now this was before this aired on Friday. This was before Joe Manchin made his announcement on Fox News Sunday. Here's the exchange right here from the God's Honest Truth on Comedy Central this past Friday night.

And in this country, is it Joe Manchin or Joe Biden, Madam Vice President? Come on, Charlemagne. I really. It's Joe Biden. I can't tell sometimes. No, no, no, no, no. It's Joe Biden. It's Joe Biden.

and don't start talking like a Republican about asking whether or not he's president. It's Joe Biden. Do you think Joe Manchin is a problem? And it's Joe Biden, and I'm vice president. My name is Kamala Harris. And the reality is because we are in office, we do the things like the child tax credit,

which is going to reduce black child poverty by 50% on track to do that. We do things that are about saying that our Department of Justice is going to do these investigations and require that we end choke holes and have body cameras. It is the work of saying we're going to get lead out of pipes and paint because our babies are suffering because of that. It is the work of saying people who ride public transit deserve the same kind of dignity that anybody else does. So let's improve that system. so that was a spicy exchange spicy meatball and it went everywhere

it went everywhere some people said that the question was unfair some people said that Charlemagne finally brought the black out of vice president she let the nigger out on him hey fuck you blood you ever noticed like on shows back in the 70s how, I guess that's how black people talk, but we only had one pitch. Cop would ask a black person a question.

They would be like, hey, fuck you, blood. I ain't got to answer your questions, job, tuckie. You know what I mean? Like, that's the only type of shit you ever saw. Fuck you, blood. That's how, that's how Kamala Harris answered Charleney. Okay. All right, what do you think?

I thought the question was funny. I'm actually shocked. He didn't laugh while saying. I found it to be funny. When I saw it, I laughed when he said it. Because obviously I understand exactly why he's asking it. But it also is a ridiculous question because clearly Joe Biden is the president. But on the other end, Senator Joe Manchin has a lot of power.

And he is wielding it and throwing it in the Democrats and the president of the United States. the whole administration's face. And very much so by now, because this came after, going on Fox News and showing the power that he has. You know, the fact that he chose Fox News. But again, that was after they did this. I didn't think it was an unfair question. I thought it was so ridiculous.

That's why I laughed. I wouldn't have taken it that seriously as, you know, Vice President Kamala Harris did. I would, like, when she's like, come on, Charlemagne. Like, I probably would have laughed to have been like, I'm not going to even dignify this with a response. Clearly, you know, President Joe Biden is the president. I'm the VP and we're working on, you know, like trying to get things passed to make this country better.

You know, some political answer like that. Yeah, look, I think the question was clearly meant to be like, who's really running the country? Of course. And I don't think, yeah, I don't think anybody thinks that Joe Manchin is really running the country. but he seems to be the most consequential figure in American politics right now. It seems like he is. And he likes it.

He is and he likes it. That's the thing. He's not doing it because he's trying to make change and because he really believes in something. He likes it. He's filling himself. Also, this, let's be honest with you, this runs your numbers up.

If you were getting a little bitty bag from fossil fuel energy, corporate interest before, you can lean on them now and get a bigger bag because they know that you have the power in your hands. I, be honest with you, I think this was the best moment for Vice President Harris since she's been in office. I think she showed passion. I think she answered the question with strength very directly. And she challenged him.

And I think the absence of her, not of her own doing, in my opinion. And I think that's what people have been missing. I think people have been missing. that's why they love her. I think it was good to see her that way. So, you know, it's just very interesting that I think had Joe Manchin not done what he did on Fox this Sunday, I think there's a different response to this question

and to this back and forth overall. And, you know, Charlemagne and then they spiked the football. They was like, see, told you it was a good question because they did get their asses kicked a little bit. Talk to Carvonne Harris. I mean, did you see the exchange before where, he was like Simone Sanders came in and was like, we're done. That was, see, that was funny.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, Simone, Simone tried to, they had to edit Simone out of it. Like, Simone, yeah, Simone, yeah, she interjected. Yeah. She interjected and didn't want her to answer that question. And Kamala Harris answered it anyway, which I like that. That's what makes it powerful. Very important, very powerful.

And I think that's what people need to know is that, her team tried to stop her from answering the question. And Charlemagne was like, they try to act like they don't hear us. That was funny to me. So I think that's why I was laughing through the whole thing. And Kamala Harris decided to answer it anyway. I don't know if it was her strongest moment. I think it's because we have not heard from her in a long time like that.

We haven't seen that her take like a powerful stance in a while. I think that's why it hits so hard at the same time as well. But I also don't think there was a whole, lot of depth in what she said. Yes. There wasn't. You know what I mean? Like, yes, she made points.

Yeah. That's why I'm not like, oh, like she really like came back. I'll be honest with you. Like, you're right. First of all, I'm sorry for interrupting you, Rachel. Finish. No, no, no. I mean, I pretty much said it.

I'm just like, there wasn't any depth. She came back. You know, she didn't shy away from the question, which was great. But at the same time, people are like, yes, sis, all this. And it's like, but y'all, she didn't give us anything. Answer the question. There's a reason why Charlemagne, as funny as I thought it was, there's a reason he is asking that question.

Like, this is a serious issue. So really address it and give me something to hold on to that makes me say, you're right, it really is presidential Biden and not just entitled alone. Because that's how it feels at the moment. Yeah. Yeah, see, this is my problem with these politicians that you never really get anything in the answer. if you ask me. You always get a platitude.

You always get a straw man, a red herring. You get all different types. They got a menu of shit. Straw man is the appetizer. The red herring is the red course. And then the bullshit is for dessert. And that's what you get. She gave you,

but it was the people saw the emotion and the fight. I love how you just were negative on her because of the whole A.K.A. Whatever. I'd be more negative about Howard. This episode is brought to by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need weather tech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping.

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Rapper, Drakeo the ruler, is dead at 28. The once upon a time in LA Festival was held on SC's campus and had a lot of people that was supposed to be pouring there, 50 cent. Shout out 50, Snoop Dog, a lot of people. Al Green was supposed to be there. Really? And Darryl Caldwell, better known as Draco the Ruler, was supposed to be there as well. He was there.

There was an altercation at some point, and he was stabbing the neck. Reports came out that he had passed away. Those reports turned out to be false at that point, but later on, he used to come to his wounds. Draco, the Ruler, one of the most influential rappers currently doing his thing in the West Coast. is now dead. And there's no good reason why. It's, I mean, I don't even know what to say. It's just, I don't know how it stops.

You know, we've had this conversation back and forth before on the podcast, sadly, and we keep having it because it keeps happening. I don't even know what to say. It's sad. And my thoughts and prayers are with his favorite. family and just anyone who's close to him who knew him. I mean, it's just such a, I say senseless. You don't like when I say senseless.

But it's just a stupid, ridiculous tragedy that doesn't need to happen. It just doesn't. We got to stop. Well, look, so, you know, I have my old headtakes on this. And I've been properly taking the task for some of the things that I believe. Let me tell you, let me talk about this real quick. I've seen people say, hey, the last time we had this conversation, I talked about the music and some of the messages in the music and how it might contribute to some of the stuff there that's going on in the street.

I'd like to clarify and talk a little bit more about that in the wake of this incredibly sad and terrible story. Number one, we know right now that things are bad in L.A. Slimb 400 was killed not too long ago. It's a rapper. Also, you know, I was doing some L.A. street activities. Drake, Drake O was aligned with some people that were probably doing the same things. He had just got out of jail last year. I had been in jail for a while

on something that was proven that he didn't do. But there are a lot of things that were sort of linked in to people who might have had issues with him because of all of that stuff. So let me clarify what I believe about rap music and hip hop the content of some of the music

and how it intertwines with some of the stuff that we're seeing with, you know, whether it be MO3, whether it be FBG Duck, whether it be Vaughn, whether it be, you know, any other guys who've lost their lives.

So the older you get, for me, especially as a black man having come up in a certain neighborhood, the older you get, the more you realize how lucky you were to have gotten there. Right? Friends die in weird ways. They die from the street.

They die from bad habits. I come from Louisiana. where people get sick. And so one of my friends, I told you this before, died at 15 of throat cancer. It happens, you know. And so you start to realize the order that you get that some of the arguments that we make in order to understand some of the things that go on, they're just not worth making against the reality of people's lives. They're not.

So when I say that it's, it's time to examine some of the stuff that goes on in the music, That's not me saying that we need to stop examining the societal situations that create the space for these brothers to say some of the things they're saying. I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is can we at least have a conversation where we look at some of the stuff that's in some of the rhymes and some parts of the music and be like, yo, relax. Sure. because I'm not saying that you can't report on what's going on in your neighborhood in an unfiltered way and the violence and the stuff that you're not saying that you can't do this

but are there songs that need to happen where you might diss a whole city or there are songs that need to happen where you might dis a whole hood or there are songs that need to happen where you might then you know take somebody who's died who's and put them in the song and make a whole disown to someone who's passed away. See, because some of that stuff was stuff that really didn't exist when back in my day. Like I didn't, some of this stuff is new.

Some of it is done intentionally to antagonize another side and people that keep a score about who's dying and then who's living. Like it's a different way. It's a different thing that's happening now. And I'm sure it was a different thing in the 90s from my father and his generation when he saw how things were happening

because remember, started then. There were direct things that happened that led to the deaths of some of these guys that we know passed away, way too young. And so for me, I'm looking at that and I'm like, well,

is there anything that's within our control that we can agree that maybe is going too far? And what we can control are the rhymes we're writing and the messages that we're putting out and sort of the amount of care that we're putting into people's lives

and how that's going. And it's just a conversation. It's not to shut anybody down and stopping anybody from expressing themselves in art or doing anything like that. It's a conversation because some of this stuff is just ratcheting in this up. I tell people something else. So Draco passed away.

Slim 400 passed away. Young Dolph passed away. They didn't die alone. like a lot of people died with Draco and when I say they died I mean their hopes and dreams for a better life their hopes and dreams

from leaving the situation that they were in with him those died too yeah those died as well same thing with Dolph same thing with in a place where success

is so hard to come by when these brothers break through they bring people with them and it's like every single one of them dying. And anytime anyone dies anywhere, it's a tragedy, right? But every single one of them dying is like a star supernovae.

It's like a black hole of all of this stuff that could have been. Of your homie that likes to cook who you could have put through culinary school. Of your man who's good with his fist who could have been your security and then put his kids through school.

Of everybody around you who might got to look rapping or who might figure out how to be a manager or who might have been in the business and A&R and all of that stuff, that comes along with it. And then those things have never happened, but what does happen is the music that these people made are still owned by these corporations,

and they keep making money off of it. See, the best thing for America is a dead, rich, young black man because he hasn't had the opportunity to build up generational wealth. He hasn't yet learned about land. He hasn't yet learned about the stock market. So all of his money when it's gone, there's a feeding frenzy, and most of what he created is still owned by white people because he hasn't gotten to the point in his life where he has ownership experience yet. Maybe some of them have, but a lot of them haven't. So these estates and all of these other things and all of this music and all of this other stuff, it's controlled by people who don't look like us.

So we don't get a chance to live long enough to establish kingdoms. We still rent our fortunes from people who control bigger fortunes. So for me, I look at the longevity as being a very, very crucial aspect of what it means to be black and successful in America. And I'm looking at anything, anything, whether it's inflicted upon us or whether it's self-inflicted that is not serving us. That is, oh, sorry. That's it. I'm like, and I just, the question that I'm asking and I'm open for the conversation, I, reached out to Reason from T.E.

Great brother. I'm hoping to have reason on the show this Thursday to talk about some of this. He's from right here in L.A. Amazing rapper. Got respect everywhere he goes. He's a great guy, right? I want to have him on Thursday to talk about some of this. Is rapping about who you've actually killed is like putting yourself in harm's way by dissing and sneak dissing and doing all of this stuff.

I'm not necessarily speaking directly on Draco's life. I'm just saying in general. is all of that stuff serving us. And if it's not serving us, why isn't it okay if we talk about why we need to be doing it? And I think that's the point. I mean, I would love to have reason on here

and I think everything you're saying is amazing. I don't even have to add anything to it. But what you're saying, it would be so great if this conversation could be held by the people who were most influential in that industry, right? What up?

How many people, people have to die, how many times do we have to be talking about one of these tragedies before somebody who's powerful in the music industry steps up and says, we got to sit down and talk, someone who could make a change, who could have impact, who could keep this conversation going. I'm actually shocked and correct me if I'm wrong that this hasn't happened. Like it may have happened before in the past, right? Like especially when there was the East Coast, West Coast thing, we saw people come together and really talk about it. But here we are again in 2021.

Actually, it never stopped. Really? It never stopped. But it just seems to be so rampant, rampant that I'm just surprised that we haven't seen more people with the power and the influence be like, you know what? Right.

We got to come together because we're dying. By the way. This is affecting our community. This is not me speaking on L.A. Street politics. Never would. Not from out here. It's a specific language. specific culture and they know how to how to do their thing.

That's not me speaking on L.A. Street politics. It's just me looking at black men dying and figuring out, is there anything that other black men can do to kind of jump into a situation and make sure that people are okay? And make sure they're doing things that are actually serving their lives. That's it. That's just the question I have. I never knew this. But in the documentary that's on Netflix, Quincy about Quincy Jones in his life, there's

a portion of it where he talks about when there was the East Coast, West Coast thing, that he gathered people together to have a conversation to talk about. I never even knew that. Yeah. That's the kind of. See some of that, some of that, some of that East Coast,

West Coast stuff, some of that wasn't even real. And maybe it wasn't. But my point is that it may not have been real, but to the people who were listening to the music, the people who were fans, it was very real. You know,

you have people in Texas, ain't even East Coast, West Coast being like, I'm East Coast this, I'm West Coast this. You know what I mean? It was real to them. And somebody who was so,

influential music sat the most powerful people in the industry at that time down to have a conversation. That's what we need. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know people do that in Texas. That's the kind of stuff they do in Texas. Latex, they were doing it in Louisiana too. They don't have their own shit.

So they try to be like the West Coast. Meanwhile Louisiana, we all that. Swap nigger. Swap nigger. Swap nigger. Oh. Swap nigger. What's the next topic,

then? The next topic is that motherfucking no limit shit. That's the next topic. That's what it is. Nigger down in the South. Nigger got the goals in this motherfucking mouth.

I love that shit. See, I'm a hypocrite too. All right. Big Sean, drink champs. Did you watch it? Did you watch Bichon on drink champs? No, I didn't. He said Kanye owed him.

Odom. Six million dollars. I saw that. Yeah. But he said he might not be on Kanye's radar. And then I was like, okay. Okay. Can I be honest with you.

Yeah. I appreciate guys like Big Sean. Because. And I like Big Sean. Because. And I heard them talking about this on the Breakfast Club too. On the breakfast club, Envi and Charlemagne were talking about the fact that because Kanye changed Big Sean's life, you know, gave him a record.

and stuff that maybe Big Sean shouldn't come out publicly against Kanye. If I like, DJ Envy was like, if I change your life, you know, you shouldn't come out and say anything bad about me publicly. You know what I mean? You agree with that? Well, he didn't. I thought what he said was so respectful. I know.

But let's say that this was before. So let's say that, forget about Big Sean. Do you feel like that's true? So Kanye West gives him a record deal. I'm one who caused people out. No, I do not. People would say that I did that. I did that.

To Soup Kitchen? People would say that the Bachelor show changed my life. And I spoke out against it. Wait. Are you the big, are you the big Shaw to Soup Kitchens, Kanye West? Stop trying to make it work. Stop trying to make it work. Whoa.

Stop trying to make it work. But wrong is wrong. And I feel like sometimes you have a responsibility or, you know, you can't help yourself, but to call out something that you see is wrong. You don't allow bad behavior to continue, especially when you have a platform to speak out about it. So, no, I don't abide by that belief. Just because I think you can call out someone in a respectful way.

All right. So I'm not super into calling people out. It's like, it's whatever. I would rather conversation people in than call them out. But I don't, it's true. I don't just think, Oh, let me call it. No, I don't think it's constructive.

I just, I'm using a phrase, right? But I think there's a respectful way to do it, whether that means calling them in. What this was about was that they asked Big Sean whether or not somebody asked Bichon whether or not he wanted Kanye West to run for president or to be president. Big Sean said something like, I don't think there's enough money that you can give me to buy my dick riding. You can't buy dick riding.

Dick riding is not for sale. Okay? So you can't buy a dick ride. And if Big Sean would have just said, yeah, I think Kanye West should be the president of the United States of America just because

Kanye West had signed him that I'm sorry, that's Dick Ryan. Of course. I'm not going to say something that I don't believe just because you're Kanye West. I'm not about to ride your dick. It can't be bought. it can't be bought jocke in whatever you want to call it brown nosing whatever you want to call it the dick riding cannot be bought i'm not going to do that i'm going to maintain my ability to be objective about whatever i might do it in a different way i might say it in a way that's more forgiving

to you i might be a little bit kinder about it or in certain situations i might because i know you personally i might be apt to take your side but if i don't do if i don't agree i don't agree Okay. But with this situation right here, six million dollars, I don't give a fuck. I'm glad Big Sean says something. Six million dollars, you, he would like, if Big Sean can hear my voice right now, you would have to be fucking insane. I understand he did a lot for you.

I understand he did that. You'd have to be crazy for somebody to owe you six million bucks. and you not make a fucking big deal about it. What are people expected from people? If the man first, and then he has no trouble, no trouble disin Bichshan publicly, right? Like, I change your life.

Yeah. By the way, when Bixiont signed to Kanye West record deal, with Kanye West record company, good music, Kanye West made money too. Of course. So I want everybody to remember this whenever someone, quote unquote,

gives you an opportunity. Whenever someone hires you for a job or gives you something, Did they make money? Right. Yes, they did. The Bachelor made money and up there standing because of you. Yeah.

TMZ made way more money off me than I ever made off them. It seems as if good music made more money out of Big Sean's deal than Big Sean did. So whatever Kanye West did, it was G-O-O-D for good music too. Right? it was good for them as well. So what I'm saying is, hey, man, I love you, I appreciate what you did, but what's right is right and what's wrong is wrong.

Right. Exactly. Damn it. Exactly. So I don't know what they were talking about. Wait, were they saying on the breakfast club that you should, basically you shouldn't bite the hand to fees you, or that was just a question they posed?

It was, they were talking about when Kanye West apparently felt betrayed by Big Sean and John Legend. and whatever they said by him running for president. And I'm like, yeah, okay, cool. I'm not going to come out and dog you because you want to run for president. But if somebody asked me, yo, man, you know, you think this motherfucker should be the president of the United States? I'm like, no, man, probably not.

No, I'm not going to vote for her. I wish him the best and that's my man. But, no, I don't think you should be the president. No. Would you vote for me? You got to be able to roll with that, huh? Would you vote for me? Depends

It depends. It depends. I don't know, man. I don't know. I don't know if I would want you with the nuclear codes. You go crazy. Like, Ray, like, like, Rach be out there. What you say? What'd you say? Oh, okay. Oh, oh, oh, oh. What? What, China? What you say? Hey. Don't make me. Hey. Hey, hey, hey, hey. Get them on the phone right now. Hey, yo. Battleships coming your way, motherfucker.

All the time. You got the wrong one on the right day and the right one on the wrong day. That would be me. That'd be my slogan I would run on. Actually, it would be fun watching you deal with the press. I'm sorry, I wouldn't even have a press secretary. I'm going to take this.

Don't worry about it. Hey, hey, you just mush the press secretary out of the way. Hey, I got it. What the fuck you talk about? We don't have a very serious question of the week because I feel like that whole 1985 women men discussion that we had earlier

is sufficient enough. That was kind of old school shit that we were doing. I do want to say this, things are crazy in L.A. I want anybody that's like in L.A. right now and what I'm saying, it's crazy. I don't mean just, oh, it's crazy.

I'm like, there's a lot of bad blood on the streets of L.A. right now. So what I want people to do is learn a little bit about the lay of the city. Learn about where you at wherever you might be, right? If you're particularly in a place where two groups of people

might not like each other very much, just know that you're in a place that might be bordering on specific territories. If you're going to big concerts and you're going to big festivals where there are a lot of rappers, where there are a lot of different people, I'm not saying you have to roll around strapped,

but just be on a lookout, know where you're at. And if you can, stay there. fuck out the way until they get this shit sorted out. And it might be a while. It might be a while. But the city right now is jumping as bad as it's been since I've been here. You know.

All right. Rach, you got anything else? Nope. That's all for me. Take your thinking caps off, but do not stop learning. It's fun.

Don't be scared to be in Los Angeles. You're okay. Go to Disneyland. Hang out with Mickey Mouse. Go to Knott's Berry Farms. It's still a beautiful place in Los Angeles. As long as you have a bulletproof vest. My name is Van Lake Jr.

And I'm Rachel and Lindsay. We are out. Bye, guys.