Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Juneteenth, White Psychosis, and Cancel Culture in Comedy 

Episode Date: June 18, 2021

Van Lathan asks Rachel Lindsay his Very Serious Question earlier than usual this week (:30) before they address the circumstances around Matt James not being on the show, as promised (14:52). They also discuss whether white supremacy is "psychopathic" (23:07) and Juneteenth (46:17) before breaking down "cancel culture" in the world of comedy (52:53).  Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Producers: Trudy Joseph and Donnie Beacham Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Higher learning is on. It is I, Van Lathen. And it's me, Rachel Lindsay. Rachel. Where are you at, Van? Tell the people you got a new background every single time we get on.

So I'm not in New York anymore. I'm now in Atlanta. I'm in the Waldorf or story you're here. See, too much. But there's a story here. And by the way, this, we're going to do something that we've never done before. we're going to do Vans very serious question of the week to start the podcast. Oh, okay.

You're okay with this? I'm okay. You're okay with this? All right. Yeah. So I was not supposed to be at the Waldorf, okay? Where were you supposed to be? I was supposed to be at a different hotel.

I'm not going to name the hotel. Okay. Oh, so it's the hotel's fault. Okay. Yeah. So it was supposed to be at a different hotel. I was brought out here. We're doing a panel of the night here in Atlanta, some stuff to do tomorrow,

and then I'm coming back to L.A. on Saturday. But I was brought out here, and, you know, they pay you, they get your hotel, they get your flight, the whole night. So I leave New York this morning, all right, and I go short flight from New York to Atlanta, didn't realize it was that short of a flight. Yeah. Yeah. It's a short flight from New York. It's not even three hours.

It's not even two. Oh, shoot. Yeah, like in the air, it wasn't even too. And I remember I asked the lady for a blanket because I was cold and tired. And she said, no, it's no blanket. There's nothing. Like you, like you. Wow.

So we know you were in first class. Why? Why would you know that I was in first class? You can ask for a blanket. Can you? Because no, not if you're in coach. Oh, yeah. Well, I was.

Anyway. So, so we get, we get, we get to. we get to New York, excuse me, we get to Atlanta. Shout out to my man, Nick May. They pull around, they get me, and we go to the hotel. So as soon as we go to the hotel, we get inside the hotel, for whatever reason, the girl has an attitude. I have no clue.

I don't know why. The young black lady had an attitude. Terrible attitude problem. We had done nothing. Okay, you just called her an angry black female. All right. Keep going on. This is the very serious question of the week.

Okay. So she had an attitude. Her system was down, which, by the way, the more to the south you go, the more the systems seem to go down. Like, I go to. So not true. I'm telling you, I traveled of, I'm from Louisiana. Our systems always be down.

Hey, just let you know my system is down right now. I can't do it. But like, I go other places, New York, the system wasn't down. The systems don't be going down in LA. Not really. In Vegas, the system has never gone down. Okay? But we come to Atlanta, we go there.

The system's down. So the system is down. She can't get this checked in. Then she looks at it as she says, it's around noon Atlanta time at this point. She looks at us and she says, well, you know, I'm not supposed to check you guys in until four anyway. And the guy and then we're like, no, because all of this stuff was supposed to be handled yesterday to where we can come in and just check in and get into our rooms. we have to sleep before we go on later. And I have to have a room before that time before 4 o'clock because I have to do a podcast.

Everybody knew all of this. Let them know. She was terrible. When I say terrible, she was short with us. She was rude. She acted like we were inconveniencing her by trying to get into the hotel. Inconvenancing her. She works in the service.

She works in the service industry. She wasn't trying to be accommodating in any way. I don't know what had happened to this young sister. I don't know why. I actually, I have this weird thing to where the ruder people are to me, the nicer I become. So by the end, I was like complimenting her. Say, hey, your braids look nice and like blah, blah, blah, all of that stuff. Just trying to.

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and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more, or visit Trimfairadio.com. The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the five.

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See terms at fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. Okay, so here's the thing. You were at the W. I wasn't at the W. So here's the thing. I went up to the room after this. And then when I got up to the room, I looked around the room and I was like, this room is a little dirty.

And at this point, a little too basic for me anyway. And with what went on downstairs, I would have lost it. With what went on downstairs, I don't want to stay here. I doubt. I had to, number one, they ended up putting me in like a double bed room. and the whole night is like, I don't want to stay here.

I just don't want to stay here. So I found another hotel and I came. I'm paying out of my own pocket for this hotel. That whole story leads up to this question. This is Vans very serious question of the week. For me personally, when I am being waited on or served or taken care of by black people,

I don't like to complain even if the service is bad. Okay. Even if the service is bad, I don't like to complain. Not just black people, but if it's people of color, period. I don't like to complain if the service is bad. Because to me, I'm thinking, hey, you never know what's happened in this sister's life to where she might be having a bad day to day and might not really be feeling like it.

Just you never know. So white people can't be having a bad day. You'll complain on white people. I will complain on white people. Just to be clear. I just, I will. Like,

I don't, I think I have less of an issue. I'm going to be honest with you. I think for me, I'm under the belief that white people have less bad days. And I'm under the belief. And maybe that's not true. We're going to talk about some stuff like,

maybe that's not true. And also, I understand our bad days. It's not fair. And our bad days be bad. Our bad days be bad. All right. So,

I give a little grace. But should you, though, if you get bad service from a black person, should you complain or is it being culturally on code to not complain and maybe cost a black person their job? because you never know. You might be the person or it might be your complaint or something might happen and you might cost that person their job, cost them problems at work,

and then you got another out of work brother and sister. Should you complain? Because for me, I'm now in another hotel, a more expensive hotel, and I'm paying out of my pocket because I didn't want to stay there. I probably could have complained and got upgraded to whatever

the best suite they have is or, you know, threaten them on Twitter or whatever. Let me tell you what you're not going to do is blame me for your bad behavior, your unprofessional behavior. You're not going to blame you potentially losing your job on me because if you're going to act that way with me, most likely it's a pattern.

And this is what I will say to that. I forget what the actual question was. The question is, if black people in the service industry, if black people that are taking care of you, no matter where they might be, whatever, if they're bad at their jobs. Right, right, right, right. As black people, should we complain about other black people?

Yes. Yes, is my answer. But it's who you complain to, right? Because at the end of the day, I want our people to be better. So it's one thing if I go behind you and I'm like, can I speak to the manager? And I complain? It's a whole other thing if I pull you to the side and I have a conversation with you. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, but that's not going to work. But you don't know that. But that's what I'm going to try first. Let me just say this. That's what I'm going to try first. Because it's going to be, if nobody corrects you and tells you that you're doing something wrong or bad or not allowing you to be your best self, then you're just allowing that person to continue in with bad behavior, problematic behavior. You'd rather it be me, a person who looks like you say something, then you have to be serving somebody white and then they go behind your back and say something. So to me, I would complain.

but I would complain to the person. I would say something. Now, I think it's all about how you approach it. I wouldn't come at them with an attitude. I wouldn't try to embarrass them in front of the rest of the people at the table. Like, I would pull you to the side and have a side conversation.

If at that point, you're still coming at me in the same manner, then I'm probably going to the manager. You're probably going to the manager. Now, here's the thing about that. Here's the thing about that. The manager... And what's the man that's black?

He wasn't. He was white. Oh, so you called the manager. No. So the manager came over. She called the manager. Well, see, then what are you supposed to do? She called the manager.

So she called the manager and the manager came down because she wanted the manager to help with the system. So she called the manager. The manager came down. But here's the thing, no. Even while the system was down, she was still picking at us. She was like, and by the way, check-ins not until four. Check-ins not until four. We like, we get that.

But we thought we had it all worked out. We had come and the guy had talked to your manager yesterday to get us checked in. I didn't know anything about this. Remember, I'm flying in as the guy who's just hosting the panel. So I don't know what arrangements have. You're the talent. Yeah, exactly. So I don't know what arrangements have been made.

I just know that I am tired as hell from having shot all the way in New York. And I don't want, and I just want to get into the room and lay down, right? So the crazy thing is, so I leave that hotel. I make a reservation at another hotel. Okay. I come over here to a hotel to, let's be faced where I paid a lot more money, but where their entire reputation is based around service. Every hotel should be that way.

Every hotel should be that way. So their entire reputation is based around service. They had me in the room in 25 minutes. Sometimes you get what it is that you pay for. They had me in the room in 25 minutes. Even they had, I told them all about my ordeal because they asked. You told. I told the new hotel of All About More Ordeals.

You look in that corner right there, they sent up some lunch. You know what I mean? Wow. Yeah, it's like, get what you pay for. Get what you pay for. But that's the question. The question is you go somewhere, a black person is waiting on you at a restaurant, at a hotel, someplace like this.

You get bad service from a black person. Do you complain about another black person to a woman? to a white manager. You would complain about another black person to a white person. You didn't say that the first time. Okay, all right, let's say if I wouldn't, I would go. I'm telling you I would go to them first personally.

But let's say if you go to them and they don't change their minds, would you complain to a white manager about black service? Because I would rather me do the complaining because I feel like I would phrase it a certain way than somebody else, somebody who white, going up and complaining on them. I feel like there's a way that I could handle it versus someone else because I'm going to be more sensitive to them because they are black. And I know certain connotations that can be placed on that. I understand the dynamics of the situation. So I feel like I would approach it a different way.

But by intention would be because I was trying to make that person better and succeed at their job. I'm not going to have you out here acting a fool. Coach Rachel. My heart is in the right place. So this is the question. I want everybody out there to answer this. All, everybody who's listening,

because we have thought warriors that are from all different types of backgrounds. We appreciate everyone. But to the black thought warriors out there, would you complain to a white manager about black service? Would you complain? I just couldn't,

I just can't do it. Somebody's going to complain. I know. That's, my thoughts, somebody's going to do it. And you're going to be thinking, can you imagine if that happened? And then a month later you see that person somewhere else and they're telling you how

they lost. Oh, I remember you served me. Oh, yeah, I lost my job because people were complaining about and you thought, man, that could have been a opportunity. That could have been an opportunity for me to save that young sister, to save that young brother. Yeah, yeah. I remember the thing about

that scenario that you just laid out. Then you would be like, didn't you serve me and So and so you would say something like that. I would be like that. But first of all, I'm not going to see that person. And then secondly, and then secondly, they're going to be like, yo, man, I lost that job. You are like, well, I get it though. That's the question.

That is the question. Good question. That's a good. Because I was thinking to myself like, because even and then another thing is when I left. So I go up and I unpack my stuff. I had the times for the podcast wrong. So I thought I had to record the podcast at 12 Eastern. but it was really three.

So I had the times of the podcast wrong. So I go up there, I'm packing all this stuff. I'm rushing to try to get the podcast. I'm rushing. I did bring the equipment. It's very true. And so after I didn't have to rush, I'm like, okay, I'm not staying here. I can't stay here.

This room is janky. I'm past this point in my life. And we would have talked about it. Right, right. I would have for sure. I'm like, I'm past this point in my life. I'm staying a little farther away. I'm staying right across.

from the mall where people keep getting popped in Atlanta. Lennox? Yeah. You're about Linux? I'm right across the street from the mall where people get, people keep getting the hit up in Atlanta. But, but I got back here and I thought, damn, because as I walked out of the hotel, I had to walk right past her. And she saw me with all of my bags and stuff.

And I felt bad. I would, I would, I would, what do I always say? I would have felt nothing. I would have felt nothing. I would have felt nothing. I would have felt nothing. Speaking of that, let's go ahead and talk about that since you bring up stuff

that has to do in the realm of Bachelor Nation. Let them know. We have an announcement. We have an announcement to make. So not only is Bachelor Nation potentially a toxic and sort of culturally backwards organization, potentially, not all of them, but it looks that way sometimes, maybe, probably yes. They also some cog blockers.

man just for people to let people know we had matt james from the bachelor coming on this very podcast today yep I get a call from rachel lindsay yesterday and by the way when I get a call from rachel lindsay and not a text I know it's important I get a call from rachel lindsay yesterday telling me what was the first thing I said

I go you're going to lose your shit and you're going to lose your shit I'm like oh my god what happened And apparently, Rachel, Warner Brothers Legal stepped in and blocked our Matt James interview. They blocked our interview. Why? Yep. Well, apparently, not apparently, I am still under contract with Bachelor Happy Hour. Like, I don't have to be there, but I have certain, my contract still goes till a certain amount of time.

And within my contract, I'm not. supposed to be able to, I didn't even know this. And I'll get to this in a second. I'm not supposed to interview former contestants. Now, if you recall and you're a thought warrior and you followed along for a while, we have taken that on this very podcast. We have interviewed a former contestant with the permission of them. That was when I was still working with them. I am no longer working and now I am told, and mind you, it's the same contract. I just want to be very clear. So back then, contractually, I wasn't supposed to do it. Now contractually, I'm not supposed to do it.

The only thing that changed is I no longer work there. I mean, I can only come to one conclusion. They're fucking with me. They hating on you. 100%. They hating on you. And when somebody hates on you, they hate on me. You know what I mean?

And by the way, when Rachel said this earlier, my mind jumped to other places. Rachel goes, you're going to lose your shit. Warner Brothers. And then I thought she went, oh, my God, Warner Brothers has come through with the television show for the Black Reasons Kelly. I was like, oh shit. Definitely not now. I'm like, God damn, we lit. And then she was like, they blocked our Mad Genie.

I'm like, wait, why? And it's, you know what's so troubling about this? Like, we're not going to sit here. We're not that type of podcast, right? We're not going to sit here and say, so in week one and when this happened on the show, honestly, we don't even remember. We want to have a bigger conversation. a higher conversation with Matt James about his experience of being the first black man

on the show and things that have happened thereafter. We covered the show here. We had certain questions. We've been wanting to talk to him for a while. He's been allowed to do other podcasts. I find it very interesting that he can't come here and have a conversation with the first black female lead as the first black male lead with another black man

we're blocked from having that conversation with him. It's not going to be about the show. This isn't a tell all. That's not the type of show that we do. We don't even care about that. We want to talk to him about his experiences that he went to because Van and I can have a conversation with him that nobody else can have.

And we were blocked from that. We were blocked. And I know how this goes because I've been on the other side of this before. Explain what you mean when you're saying that. Well, I'm just saying I know. Because one of the things you said to me was, are they listening? Is one or listening to our podcast? Absolutely not. Somebody within the franchise

is listening to our podcast. I'm sure Reddit picked it up and said, hey, Matt James is going to be on Rachel's podcast and Rachel and Vance podcast. We got to check it out. That alerted them. And then they found a way to contractually block it. And I just find it so disappointing because the purpose of it isn't to make the franchise look bad. The purpose is to have a conversation with Matt James. And I got to be honest with you with the Bachelor people here. Do you really want me to get on your ass? Seriously, do you want me to get on your ass?

Because everything that we've been doing has been playful. I think The Bachelor is, from having watched The Bachelor, I understand why people love The Bachelor so much. Sure. It is a lot of fun. It is fun to watch, for the most part. especially when you have characters like Chippendale on there. It's crazy.

It is fun to watch Yosef, all of these people. And it's something that's very easy to get addicted to. I didn't quite bite for it, but when I was watching it, it was actually a little cool point in my life. Okay. But it's also highly, highly problematic in myriad ways. And the only reason why we don't go into a full-throated discussion about this is because we got bigger fish to fry.

But no one has been trying to get on here and assassinate The Bachelor or take down the show or tell people that it sucks to watch it. When really, to be honest with you, it's akin to the NFL in terms of how structurally racist the organization seems to be. Unlike the only difference is,

I'm okay with being a hypocrite with the NFL, but the Bachelor, I can really kick them in their nuts and really start really getting people on their ass. Like we haven't even done anything to The Bachelor. And by the way, we haven't. I feel like we've been respectful. If that sounds like a threat, because maybe it is. I don't understand why this is even a thing.

And something else I got to say, because Matt James tweeted me this morning. So Matt James tweeted me this morning. He said, Van Lathen stopped ducking me. and then he had a little duck right there. And he added you. And he added me. He added me. Of all the wienerific things that Matt has ever done, this takes to Oscar Meyer.

And let me tell you why. Let me tell you why. And we will eventually get this interview done. Even if we have to wait for six months or whatever, we'll eventually get this interview done. Okay. Let me tell you why this is the biggest weenus semester. meanest move that Matt James has pulled as of yet. You spoke to him. Yes. He knows the reason why we can't do this interview. Correct. He's aware of the reason why we can't do this interview. Yet to go out

there and make it seem like I am ducking him, Matt, I love you. All right. I'm dying. to talk to you. You seem like a swell guy. But that's a weenus move, baby. That's a weanus move. You know damn well if we could. We'd have you right on this podcast right now. I even have a list. I'm going to make Matt explain. Yeah, explain the top five winness slimyness moves that he pulled on his season of The Bachelor. And also, I also just want to talk about other stuff with him because there's still things I want to talk about. And by the way, Thought Warriors have been giving me questions. And they have serious questions for Matt. Okay. And I was looking forward to it. It's kind of a drag. I know. No, no, no, no. It's a bummer. We will make it happen, though.

I think a lot of people wanted to hear how different this interview would be from any other interview that he's done before. Right. Some people are scared of that, which is why it's not happening. And other people are ready to embrace it. So soon enough, thought warriors, soon enough, it'll be here. All right. Let's take a break. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks.

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Okay, there's a show that I'm obsessed with right now. What are you eating? What are you eating? Blueberries, blueberries, blueberries. Blueberries getting your antioxidants on? I was just about to say that. Blueberries and a red bull. Blueberries and a red bull.

So right there's just fucking take the shit back. So there's a show that I'm obsessed with right now. If you're not watching the show, you really should. To me, it's the smartest show on television right now, and it's Black News Tonight with Mark Lamont Hill. It is fantastic. It is fantastic. Now, Yodi, when I said this,

was like, it's the second smarter show. All right. I like Yody. Give my girl her props. Yody's a firecracker. You know what I mean? Snap, snap. That's Yody.

But Mark is continuously on his show. Showing very real intellectual discourse from the full gamut of minds. What he's been doing in terms of the discussion on critical race theory has been amazing. But it's not just that. He had an amazing eye-opening interview with Patrice Cullors shortly after the entire thing kind of was going on with her in the four houses

and people were trying to come after her. But just recently, he had on New York psychologist whose name is Aruna Kilani, all right? Kilanani or something. I'm not sure. I apologize for butcher in that last name. It's either Killanani or Kalani. Okay.

And she is the same lady who made some ways a couple of weeks back when she talked about some of the daydreams that she has about white people. She says she has dreams of harming white people. Okay. A little bit more detail than that. Tell the people what she said. Well, it was about, I can't. I can't remember how it wasn't harm.

It was harm, but it was like murdering them and then like wiping the blood. Yeah. On her clothes and walking away. It was pretty graphic. Yeah. It's pretty gruesome. That's what we call too much. Yeah.

Okay. All right. We get it. That's too much. But I guess Mark had her on the show and wanted to probe deeper into her ideas and her beliefs around systemic white, systemic racism, should I say. And also to talk a little bit about her specific views on whiteness and in the Western world. And Mark asked her a question.

And what I'm going to do right now is normally we don't do this on the podcast. But I'm going to play, if it's okay with you, Rachel, the full two minute back and forth, like his full question and her full answer. Which section? Because I know the whole interview is like 15 minutes. No. So just the section where he asked her specifically about the psyche of white people. And then I really want to get your thoughts on her ideas on that.

So can we play that right now? This is Mark Lamont Hill. And I keep pushing her name. Arana Kilananani. Yes, you guys go ahead and talk. There are no good apples out there. White people make my blood boil. When you say there are no good apples out there,

What kind of claim are you making? I'm talking about people have this idea that racism is something that if you're consciously racist or if you're a clan member, and I'm sort of making the claim that racism is something that is unconscious and it is actually in everyone. And everyone uses these words systemic. They're like, you know, I know that racism is systemic. And yet individually when you call them out, they'll be like, well, it's not me. You can't say that. And so there's a disconnect between use of the word systemic and saying that racism is everywhere,

but the moment you pointed out individually, there's sort of people disown their own violence and racism. Would it be fair to say, based on your expertise, that white people are psychopathic? I think so. Yeah. I mean, I think that there's many lies that, and I didn't get to that part because what I've delivered was only part of a first series of talks. but the level of lying that white people do that has started since colonialism, we're just used to it.

What kind of lies? Sure. Every time that you steal a country, you loot, you say you've discovered something. I mean, this level of law is actually part of history. We don't say that we killed all these people, we got rid of all the Native Americans. We say we discovered America.

you don't talk about the level of death. You don't talk about the level of what actually occurred. You wipe the slate clean. You sanitize the violence. And you actually got lost along the way. You're trying to go to India. And then you say you discovered something. And this level of discovery is everywhere.

You've discovered vegetarianism. You know, you've discovered yoga. You've discovered everything is a discovery. And it's all actually stolen. So, Rachel. Okay, so let's talk about this real quick because, you know, first of all, before I even, what do you think about that? Well, there's a lot of different things that were said. So like specifically, what which part?

Okay, so this one I'm asking. Okay, so there's a couple of things and I don't want to take up too much oxygen, but I want to break it down. So the historical accuracy of what she said can't really be, you know, refuted. the historical accuracy of the sanitized violence, the historical accuracy of how the horrors that indigenous people all over felt when European colonialism hit them, white colonialism hit them, the horrors that Africans were subjected to as they were brought over and then turned into slaves and that how it was whitewashed and sanitized

through the lens of white supremacy, you can't argue that. I think the thing that jumps out at you when you're talking about that is if we talk about the fact that whiteness in and of itself lends itself to a certain privilege and a certain misunderstanding of the historical suffering of other people and a sort of almost diminishing of those people, right? That's one thing.

But to say that there is a psychosis involved, that they are psychotic, that whiteness has rendered white people, all white people, one to one everywhere, psychotic. I'm wondering if that right there in it of itself is a useful speech, two, even true, or three, if it's so. something worth examining. What do you, just that right, that on its face. Well, it depends on the purpose of her, her speech or why she's saying it, right? Because if the purpose of her of her saying that is to make white people understand how they are because of the history of their place in this country or even really this world, then you're going to turn them off the moment that you call them psychotic.

I wouldn't want to listen anymore. but if her purpose is to educate and teach and she doesn't care about your feelings in the process then it's not too far it's a strong when he asked her the question and I'm not sure if he asked her correct me did he ask her that question of do you think they're psychotic because that's what she said in that speech

because I did not hear her speech is that why he asked her that or did he just ask her that off the top of his ad? He asked her that because I think the aspects of whiteness that she was describing lent itself to him saying Well, is there something? Has white supremacy over the last X amount of thousands of years? Has it fundamentally altered the minds of the white people that we share society with to the point to where they can't even think insane and rational terms? See, I don't think that that's true. And I don't think that that's necessarily fair to say that. That's a really extreme thought. If we were back when this happened in the 17th century, then yeah, you could probably say that. But right now, I don't think that that's fair. And I don't think that that's fair. And I don't think that that.

does anything to bring us all together, if that's what the goal, it's off-putting, right? Just like I understand what she's saying about these unconscious feelings that we may have towards white people. But when you then say that the other day you thought of murdering one and then having the blood on your hands and wiping it off, you're turning people away. It's a little too much, as we said. It's TMI. So I think that there's a certain way to do it.

But I do think that what she's saying is absolutely true. And for me, I see the importance of it, like when she talks about it. about the way we phrase things as far as history is concerned. When we talk about discovering, rather than the violence that was behind them discovered, I almost just said it, right? Because I'm conditioned to think that, of them landing in the Americas.

That's where critical race theory is so important. Because if you try to erase that and you try to tell it the story in a different way, it's how we were. I was an adult by the time I learned or high school, by the time I learned that the way I was taught of the way they came to this country and how they really were able to conquer it is not the same way that I was reading it as like the story of Thanksgiving. And, you know, we were told a story of they were white saviors. They came here.

They rescued them. They taught them a certain religion. Same thing they did with slavery. They saved us. We were out here as savages when that's not necessarily the case. That's not what the Native Americans were. and that's not what we were in Africa. So I just think that there's an important part in what she's talking about,

about the way we've been conditioned to think. And I love when she goes into that. But to me, some of the speech is a little too much. All right. So a couple of things there. Number one, if anybody thinks that they're having, like, if they're daydreaming about killing people, that's never TMI. That's the eye that I need.

I need to know if that's how you feel. Like TMI is, you know, talking about your bowel movements, even though I feel like those are always interesting conversations. But the information I need to know is if you woke up thinking that you just want to kill random people. I would like to know that. So a couple of things. Number one, even when you use the term savagery, even when they called a savages, the word savagery in it of itself is maybe it's telling history through the lens of white supremacy, right? Because they were savages because they didn't speak your language Or because they didn't uphold your customs or look like you

But if you're talking about savagery because of what they did Well, what's more savage than landing somewhere and killing up everybody So you've taken all of their stuff and wiped their culture off the face of the planet There's nothing more savage than that that is what savages do Savage is kill for lust and for for greed and all that It's you're subjecting somebody else So your most primal instincts was your are, I'm an animal, you're an animal, I'm a bigger animal I'm going to take from you. That's what savagery is.

And so it was barbaric and savage the way these lands were wrestled away from the people who lived here. And chattel slavery ended up itself. But I think the reason why I'm fascinated with what she said is this. To me, this is the same excuse that we made for guys that grow up in my community. We say the exact same things. So for guys that grow up in my community that might have. committed heinous crimes. Let's say they've murdered people. Let's say they've beat on people. Let's say they've done these different things. Well, what we say is we say these people in

it of themselves is not in their nature to be any one specific way. But the conditions of the society that they've grown up in have given them a certain matrix of choices. And in those choices, a lot of times they choose the things that are available to them. And those things that are available to them sometimes to other people would seem fucking crazy, right? It would seem crazy to kill somebody over drug money. It would seem crazy to sell drugs to a pregnant woman. It would seem crazy to run up to beat somebody within the inch of their life because they stepped on your shoes.

All of those things seem crazy. But if you understand the conditions that somebody grew up in, if you understand the conditions that they had to deal with, if you understand the depravity of some of these places, then you get the fact that the conditions have created somebody that society might view as crazy. Why is it so hard to believe that the condition of white supremacy in America could have possibly created a bunch of people with a warped sense of reality as it pertains to dealing with other human beings?

Now, I'm not saying that you necessarily call somebody psychotic or you necessarily say that because obviously I'm not about to I'm not about to crawl up on the cross for the white people I know but obviously obviously not all white people are crazy violent bloodthirsty looking to hurt other people

but that doesn't mean that those same people aren't almost conditioned by a society that tells them they never have to say they're sorry and when when things are changing, right? When things are changing, as they are right now, it's very fluid right now.

We see a lot of this stuff coming to the forefront. That's very good. But maybe speech like this is necessary to make people understand how much they have to change. Now, I'm a guy that uses honey, so I'm not going to go out there and tell you, hey, you were born white so you're psychotic. I wouldn't even want to talk to, I'm not, I wouldn't even want to hear you. Yeah, and that's not even what I want to say. I don't want to say that. But if you look at the case that was laid out. These aren't little lies. These are big, gigantic,

ugly, infected, pus-filled lies that are covering up for the deaths of millions upon millions of people. Right? Like literally, if anybody right now,

if anybody right now sought to whitewash or sanitize the violence of the Holocaust, you'd say they had to be crazy. Right. Right. And you say anyone that allowed themselves, like all of the neo-Nazi, white supremacists,

who worship Adolf Hitler, who think that he's going to come back to life, who all of that, you look at these people, these people are insane. Like, they're conditioned by something and it's obviously not true. You can crack it. These people are out of their minds.

They're out of their gores. They believe in something that's completely untrue. So I'm trying to understand if those people are off and the dudes in the hood that do all of these heinous things that we're trying to help, that we're trying to change conditions. If they're off, then everybody else who believes what they see in historical text and everybody else who read in historical texts, shall I say, and everybody else who refuses to hold America accountable for a past and refuses to reconcile America's present, why aren't they crazy too? Like it is why everybody else is crazy. It seems like there's a dysfunction that exists that we're okay with because of of the lens and we've had to take to define it. So if I look, if I tell you right now, right, if I say that systemic racism is a thing and it's doing this. And the overwhelming mountain of evidence says no.

It says yes. and you say no, then why aren't you crazy? Huh. Very good point. Very good point. The only thing I'll say to that, though, is there are a lot of white people a lot who do recognize the systemic racism as a real thing. Who do understand that this history is wrong.

But that's what's her point. Yeah. But her point, no, no, no. You're right. There are a lot of people, and that's not what you're saying. You're talking about it in a different way. But what she said was those people recognize that. that, but then when it comes to individualism, they're like, no, that's not me.

You know, like they don't link the two together. Well, if this is systemic and this is what this was built on, and that's the structure, and the structure is built on white supremacy, then, and the school of thought and all of it, well, when I point to you as an individual as being a white person within it, you're like, no, but that's not me. And I think that you can understand what it is and recognize it. And like she said, understand that we all have these unconscious bias. We all do. And I think people are too afraid to say that because of the culture that we're in right now being canceled or, you know, being deemed a racist. It's like the word has been, the word is so detrimental. People are so terrified of it that they don't understand that if I say, oh, you have an unconscious bias or that's implied racism. That doesn't mean like it's not the most hateful thing. You're not a racist and you're not wearing a hood and burning crosses. And it's not the same thing.

Hmm. You know what I think about this? I think about where does this stop? Because I'm definitely a misogynist, right? I'm just not like a bad one. So when I say I'm a misogynist, meaning that like there's no way to completely, like I try not to be. I think I do a good job. But there's really no way to purify yourself of your place as a man in this society that's been built around you and that revolves around you. That's what I was going to say. Why do you call yourself that? Because you've been conditioned to think that way? Well, I, I, you, yeah, well, you, I call myself that because I, for a long time in my life, what a woman's role in my life was, was not to, in any way, share. But it was to reinforce my legacy, somebody to have my children, somebody to raise my family while I go out and conquer the world.

It wasn't something that was done in tandem. You just said it. What? You were taught, you were conditioned to continue your legacy. Well, does that make you a psychopath as well? I'm asking.

But isn't that what white people are doing? No, they are. So I'm saying is, what I'm saying is all of this stuff has to do with the way that you're conditioned. And I'm really, I'm really, fascinated with the idea that what you were exposed to makes you either crazy or saying. Because when she says that, that's a hell of an accusation to lobby.

That's a hell of a thing to say. But if we're being consistent about some of these things, we say stuff like this all the time, just not as it equates to white supremacy. We don't think that white supremacy, whiteness, or privilege is equal to you having something wrong with your brain. All of the other stuff we say that it does. But we don't ever equate that with it because we would literally be calling America crazy town. Crazy's nation. Listen to this.

I think the same way that we just talked about racism or racist being labeled a racist, I think that people have that same fear with the word psychotic or psychosis. And when you look at the definition of psychosis, it says it causes you to lose touch with reality. So when I'm reading this and I'm like, kind of on point, it causes you to lose touch with reality. You might see here or believe things that aren't real. Psychosis is a symptom, not an illness. That's very interesting when you take that definition and you put it in terms or in context

of what the doctor was saying when she was. she was talking to Mark Lamont Hill. That's interesting. That makes you think about it in an entirely different way. Yeah. I think there's such a negative connotation with the word psychotic and psychosis.

But when I look at it in that, through that lens, it makes a lot of sense. I tell you one thing, one thing I do know, white people are about to show her how crazy they are because she's getting audited.

She's getting audited. She's not going to be able to get a table at the Cheesecake Factory. All right. Top golf. there. No, no, not the Cheesecake Factory. Cheesecake Factory is not going to do that. Cheesecake Factory is a nice wholesome place for white families. That's why I see people existing in their whiteness the most. I saw Jessica Simpson at the Cheesecake Factory. We go there all the time. Like black folks,

that's what I'm saying. Yeah, but that's, see, this is the problem with you blacks, okay? The problem with you blacks is you go to the Cheesecake Factory so much that you think the Cheesecake Factory is for you. I got news for you. The Cheesecake Factory ain't for you. How do you know that, Van? The Cheesecake Factory ain't making no billion dollars off y'all. The Cheesecake Factory is making that money off Kia Seveas and people that drive those types.

The Key Cheesecake Factory ain't making, you think that's yours. You think that's yours. It's not. I love the she- Stop looking at me like that. I can't even tell you the last time I went to a Cheesecake Factory. I saw Jessica Simpson. Are they in L.A.?

Yeah, they got one at the Grove. They got one at the Grove. They got one at the Grove. The one at the Grove is lit. One on Beverly, and then they got one in the marina. You know where they are. And then they got, I'm telling you, the Grove, one on Beverly, one at the Marina del Rey, and then they got one in the Sherman Oaks Gallery.

Wow, you just covered the entire county. Yeah, and that's where I saw Jessica Simpson at that one in the Sherman Oaks Gallery. putting in work Jessica was in there putting in work that's what I like to see doing her thing all right

June teeth is now a federal holiday the House voting overwhelmingly Wednesday it's past Wednesday 415 to 14

who were the 14 I don't know President Joe Biden of course you could Yeah, President Joe Biden scheduled to sign the bill this afternoon, this Thursday. So by the time this comes out, it'll be signed into law. So June 19th holiday, we know what Juneteenth is, blah, blah, blah, blah. We've talked about it on this podcast.

Essentially is to commemorate the end of slavery. Rachel, Juneteenth is a federal holiday. Do you care? As soon as you said it, I said and. Right. Right. So people get the day off of work. Right.

That's what happens. Federal employees get that day off. Right. Now what? Right. Now what? Great. You recognize it.

We already were recognizing this day. You know what I mean? We were already celebrating it. I don't think we need the assistance or the day off of work. You know how it is. When people get the day off, they're not recognizing the holiday. They're enjoying their break from work. Right.

Get other stuff done that's actually going to make an impact in our community. A day on the calendar, circled on the calendar is not. So here's my thing with this. everything that you just said is right, but it is kind of a situation to where it's like, it is kind of a situation where I'm like, all right, man, let's not shit on the fact that they made Juneteenth the holiday.

No, because we have complaints. It just falls short. I know that it falls short. But to me, it's always weird to complain about some shit that you have been asking for. So people have been asking for Juneteenth to be a holiday.

Well, why is it Juneteenth a holiday? Why is it Junetechita federal holiday? People have been asking about that. And then they make it into a holiday. And then everybody goes, and by the way, I'm not saying that these are wrong things. Everybody goes, well, at least say, yeah, like, yeah, you wanted that to be a holiday. But it almost seems like I'm looking at the timing of it all, right? You've got the For the People Act on the table.

You've got the George Floyd Justice and Policing Act on the table. And you got Juneteenth as a federal holiday on the table. And this is what you're going to give us. It's the absolute bare minimum. I'm not taking away from it as I'm sitting here watching it. Biden's signing it right now live, breaking news. But when there's so many other things on the table that have a bigger impact and could really help us in present day, you choose to go for this. I get it.

But look what else is on the table. Well, it is also the week of Juneteen. So they probably want to do something symbolic. And look, we're not going to fall off for the banana and tailpipe with it. We know that there are other things that are more important. Yeah. But I do think it was worth celebrating the fact because once again, it's something that we had complained about. Why isn't Juneteenth the holiday?

Why isn't Juneteenth the holiday? Why wouldn't America want to celebrate the end of slavery? We had said that so many times. And then as soon as it gets done, it's like, fuck all that. We need more. And we don't need more. No, it's not for, wow. It's not that.

Oh, my God. my eyelash. Oh, well, the eyelash wool. The eyelash just jumped right in the eye. I got to get that in slow-mo. Yeah. Stick it to the bottom. I can't even like get on that, that train with you in regards to like we're as if we're not being grateful because I think it's in light of everything.

That's how you sound. No, no, no. Not that we should be grateful. Forget about being grateful. Forget about being grateful. It's just. That's how it sounds, fan. Nah, it's not about being grateful.

it's about kind of shitting on it. No, we're not. It's like, just like me, I recognize it. Great. Thank you. Thank you for giving us another federal holiday a day. Like, I get it. I get it.

People were mad about it though before. I'm not mad. But see, I'm happy about it. But I guess I'm just like there's so much other stuff. And then after it took what happened with George Floyd in 2020 where you're like, yeah, now I'm going to recognize it in present day. That had to happen for you're like, okay, now's the time to do it. Why couldn't it have been done before?

Now we have other things that are even more important on the table and you're not recognizing those. We can't get those to go anywhere, but you're going to let us circle this date on the holiday. Like I don't want this to be like, be grateful we gave you something. So I guess that's where I'm coming from. Right. Do you, so you're watching Joe Biden sign it right now?

Yeah, he's talking. Aren't you amazed every time like he signed something and his hand doesn't like turn into dust. He is the frailest man I've ever seen. Like Joe Biden turned around to address a reporter that had said something about Vladimir Putin to come, you know, dress the reporter down and get in their face. I'm like, God damn, man.

This nigga here is rickety. Like he was turning around like one of them old-ass roller coasters. I'm like, this guy is, he's fucking rickety, man. He looks fine. He looks fine now. You know, he just got back from overseas. It's probably a little tired. It's probably a little tired.

I want him to get down in an athletic stance and I just want to throw tennis balls at him and see how many he can catch. Why? He was just photographed or videoed with his wife on a bike on a bike ride. Let me ask you a question. In a game of one-on-one to 12, make it take it. Let's go to 13.

A game of one-on-one, make it take it to 13. Make it take it. Boom. You score it. You get it back. all right really didn't need you to break down the definition of make it take it for me

but once again assuming I've never played this game you guys as a woman never said that well maybe I'm but maybe I'm crazy though maybe I'm crazy Joe Biden versus Bernie Sanders I got Joe Biden you got Joe? I think I got Bernie man Joe has like this old man

energy I feel like that comes out of nowhere. You know, it's like this like deep, this strength from within. Oh, wait, I got to take Joe. Remember when Bernie was on the view shooting basketball? No, but I want to YouTube. Oh, no. You can't get that much. You already took Bernie.

You already took Bernie. Oh, well, let's do it then. Let's do it then. Battle of the psychotic old white dudes. You know what I'm saying? All right, let's take a break. This episode is brought to by the active cat credit card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in.

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Oh! Cancel culture is on, it's on the run. Two people are coming at that cancel culture again. Bill Maher has been doing his cancel culture thing. Yeah, he's been. Yeah, he hates it. But also Charles Barkley and Kevin Hart. Charles Bullock and Kevin Hart have come out and both said that things are getting less fun.

Because, I'm cancer culture. Charles Barkley said during an appearance on Washington D.C.'s 106.7, the fan. And he said that Turner executives are trying to change some of the things that he'd say on inside the NBA on TNT. Now, he had a long running joke on there. I don't know if you remember it. The joke was hilarious. Yes, but this is the thing. This is the example he's giving.

Wait, wait. So the joke was hilarious. So, well, this is what Chau Barkley said. He said, you can't even have fun nowadays throughout these characters trying to get you canceled and things like that. I'm trying to hang on for another couple of years until I'm 60, and then they can kiss my ass. I'm only working until I'm 60.

I've already told them that. I'm not working until the day I died. That's just stupid. And if I don't have enough money by now, I'm an idiot anyway. They should fire me anyway. Okay, whatever. So Charles Barkley had this long-running joke on inside the NBA

to whatever they would talk about San Antonio because the Spurs have been traditionally one of the better teams, better franchises in the history of really any sport. So they'd be down there for the playoffs all the time and go down there for games all the time. And Charles Barkley would say, it's time to go down to San Antonio with the big old women down there. And as soon as he would say big old women, Shaq would burst into laughter. Kenny would burst into laughter Ernie would try to keep a straight face and then they throw him

they'd lob him things they'd be like what they like down there in San Antonio and did he say the women like them churros and he said the women would be double-fisting them churros and then they'd say what about Victoria's secret and then he'd say Victoria is definitely a secret down there

and he would say this over and over and over again and it became even an issue on the show to where some women in San Antonio were super pissed off about it and they did a whole talk segment about it and stuff like that. But he's saying these are the types of things now that he can't say anymore. And he's made fun of other things. He made fun of Justice Smilett. He's always hit these hot butt issues.

He said a lot of stuff. He said a lot of stuff. So now he's saying that they cancel culture. Obviously you can't do that anymore. Like you can't fat chain people and especially the women of an entire American city. So he's mad. He's pissed off. He says it's no more fun.

I mean, listen. The joke. I feel it's wrong to laugh at. He's definitely generalizing being from Texas, having been to San Antonio numerous times, not all the women are big women. We know that. But it did become a funny joke. And what I did like the way they played with it is then they went down and interviewed

women. And then the women would rag on Barclay. They would talk about him being big. They talk about him not having hair. They talk about his game. They talk about him not knowing anything. And so it became this back and forth. So I thought it was really smart how they then let the women of San Antonio go after Barclay.

And I feel like I feel like that's how you do it, right? Like he's clear. He's joking. I mean, he's probably serious. The first time he said he was definitely serious. I thought he said that they weren't attractive as well. But I think I did he say that? He would just say they got some big old women down there.

That's what he would say. Yeah. Like what Barclay said didn't bother me. He said a lot worse things, I think, that would lean more towards cancel goals. but I don't think anybody's going to cancel him over the fact that he said the women in San Antonio are big. Yeah. Barclay, no, I don't even think people are talking about canceling him,

but I get it in the general sense of things. But then you have the other side of it where people are like, what is it that you want to say so badly that you think is gonna get you cancel? It's a lot. He wants to talk about the big old women in San Antonio. It's also a live show, and he hasn't said anything yet that has even had, has he been suspended for anything he said?

Not that I can remember. remember. Yeah. Are people, are the producers really telling Charles he can't say all these things? I found what Kevin Hart said to be even more interesting. Yeah. Kevin Hart said that now, Kevin Hart is a movie coming out. He says that he owns all of his mistakes and that now you have to be perfect. He says, when do we get to a point to where life was supposed to be perfect? Where people were supposed to operate perfectly all the time. He was talking to the Times in London. He said, I don't understand. I don't expect perfection from my kids. I don't expect it from my wife. friends, employees, because last I checked, the only way you grow up is from fucking up.

It's not necessarily about cancel culture, Kevin Hart said. It's backlash. It's about the intent behind what you say. There's an assumption that it's always bad somehow. We forgot comedians are going for the laugh. Yeah, see, I find this interesting because on one hand, he absolutely has a point, right? Things are going too far and there's no separation between canceling someone. and someone, you know, being held accountable and the consequences that they suffer when they say something wrong.

Like, it's either cancel and you're done. And it seems to be a blurred lines. Like, nobody's being held just accountable. They're not given necessarily the space to a room to make mistakes. They're just pretty much canceled. That's what it seems like. Seems like where things are going. He has a point there. But then I feel like what he says at the end when he talks about, he's talking about like the intention of the joke. And he's talking about like there's an assumption that it's always bad because they, forget that comedians are just going for the laugh, I think that that's where he loses me. Because if you're allowing people to be comfortable in making fun of other people or playing into certain stereotypes or, or, you know, playing, making fun of underrepresented groups, then I think that's where it's a problem. And it's the same thing with people talking or taking

cancel culture too far. Like you lose the purpose of holding people accountable and the consequences that come with that. I think people will take your joke to another level as well. So even if Kevin Hart's intentions or whoever the comedian is, even if their joke, the intention behind it isn't bad and it may just be a joke to that comedian, you may have people who use that joke to torment marginalized groups or other people. And your joke could be an excuse or a reason to make that type of comment or action okay. So even like, do you understand what I'm saying? Like the comedian has a good intention or doesn't have a bad intention, I should say, but the audience member may take that joke and use it for bad.

So I think that's why you have to be careful in some of the stuff that you say. You're making it okay for people to laugh at these things. No? Yes. So, yeah. Look, I got to be, I'm getting a little fatigued with all of it. The cancel culture. This is not cancel culture.

So nobody that I can remember has really been canceled for anything that they've said. I can't think of anyone who's been canceled for anything that they've said, right? People have said the worst of the worst shit and they've bounced back. Maybe Michael Richards was canceled for something that he said. But the reality of that even is that Michael Richards, because he asked friends in Hollywood, was able to go on and work and come back on curb your enthusiasm and do stuff. Mel Gibson said some of the worst things ever. And Mel Gibson also abused a woman.

and he came back and he was nominated for an Academy Award for Haxar Ridge a couple of years ago, okay? That was a full comeback. So when people say Mel Gibson never really came back, bullshit. He came back and was nominated for an Academy Award. He was at the top of his industry. Mel Gibson came back. Okay, there are other people. Emil Hirsch beat the shit out of a woman at Sundance.

Beat the shit out of her. Who did? Emil Hirsch, a guy was an Into the Wild and Alpha Dog, beat the shit of a woman at Sundance. Okay. He came back. He came back. He was in Once Upon a Time, and Hollywood, not too long ago.

He's got some more stuff coming out. He's not the star that he was, but he came back. So people have come back for more than just saying things. All right. And so my thing is the comedians and everybody else,

they're going to have to decide what it is the fuck that they want, right? So gone are the times when you could just say whatever you wanted to say and never had to hear from anybody who didn't like it. Right.

Those times are gone. Everybody has a voice. The only reason why It's not that people never liked some of these jokes that were being made. It was that there was no way for them to voice their opinion about it. People would watch this shit. You think that if you're a 12 or 13 year old kid and you're watching Eddie Murphy delirious or any of these other things, and you're struggling with your sexuality and Eddie Murphy is throwing the F word around

or doing all of that stuff, which he has admitted was not right to say. You think that they were cool with that? Nah, it made them feel like that's okay. That's the worst thing to be. Now, I'm not trying to censor anything to anyone says. I think I like the raunchy shit. I like the crazy shit. I like the off brand, all of that stuff.

But I also know that when I see a comedian on stage and he starts making jokes about black people that I feel a certain way. Now, whether or not I let him get through the set is about how far he goes. It's about what I am prepared to sit through. I love Bill Burr. Bill Burr gives it to everybody equally, right? Bill Burr married to a black lady. He gives it to everyone equally. So sometimes he talks about arguments

that he has with his wife and they go back and forth and sometimes the way he looks at things, his wife and her culture are the butt of the joke. Feminists get it up there. White guys get it up there. Everybody gets it up there. So when I sit down and watch it,

I make a decision about whether or not I can get through it. But that's a personal decision. and these comedians, they got to stop complaining now. Now, I don't want them to change. I don't want Kevin Hart to change. I don't want comedy or art, period, to be a place where people can't take chances and offend people. I just don't want that. I need there to be some tension.

I need there to be some chances take. We made a movie, two-distance strangers, and a bunch of people loved it, but a bunch of people thought it was black trauma porn and they hated it. that to me is positive it's positive that that stuff is out there but how could we turn around show a nigga getting killed 120 times in the movie how could we turn around

and then point a finger at anybody who had a problem with that? Yeah like that's the chance you take but you're seeing the other side of it and it seems like these comedians aren't well no it seems like they act like a bunch of bitches

but that's what I'm saying you're recognizing that there's room for people to not see it in the same say in a positive light or see it in the same way that you saw it because an audience is going to take it in a different way. Look, there are, there are, there are, the audience taking it in a different way doesn't matter. I don't matter. So if, if I produce a piece of art and then someone takes my art and then uses to go justify something that they already thought they should have been doing, there's nothing I can really do about that. I can't do anything about that situation.

If you, if you, if you tell a joke on stage, if you tell a joke on stage and then somebody else says, hey, this joke was told this way so I can go say it in my class or I can go say it at work. It's just not the comedian's responsibility. It's not any artist's responsibility. You can't do that, right? See, I guess I disagree a little bit. Really? But that's what I was saying is like, because that's what Kevin Hart was saying.

His intention behind the joke isn't bad. So, so. But that doesn't make it okay. So if you're saying something that makes fun of, like that puts down, you know, like a marginalized group of people. Right. And then people take that as an excuse because not everybody has the maturity to realize he's just

joking. It's just comedy. Some people will take that and think that it is okay to say those things and repeat them to that same group of people or in front of them. Do you see what I'm saying? He's assuming that everyone has a level of maturity to accept what he's giving, his art.

I don't think Kevin Hart's responsible for that. I don't. So people aren't responsible for the content that they put out there. That's like saying that if you go and you shoot a cop, you can say that you did it because Arnold Schwarzenegger did it in a Terminator. It's like it, to me... You don't think that there's a difference between

a role, and I guess I see a difference. A comedian standing on stage telling a joke to me isn't the same thing as you playing a role in the Terminator. So I don't think it is, I don't think it's a one-to-one either, but I will tell you that one of the reasons why we look at police officers

as heroes is because it's been reinforced over and over and over and over and over and filming on television, right? Sure. So, of course, so film and television. But also in real life, it's reinforced. It's not just film and television. It's reinforced in real life. Cops come to your school. They've got the badge. They save you.

They protect you. I can tell you right now that heroic depictions of cops on the movies and in the movies and on TV has a much larger. Most of the time when people see cops in their real life there's either something wrong

or they're about to get a ticket. Most people in their real life want to avoid the police. The only reason why I'm going down... I'm not disagreeing with you. The only reason why I'm going down this rabbit hole is what I'm saying is that like sometimes you've got to get on the stage and tell your story

and it's not always going to be for everyone. It's sometimes I do want the room to be problematic but I don't want, I don't ever, when I say I want the room to be problematic, I mean, I just want to be able to say it, right? Which you can. But I don't ever want somebody else not to feel like they can't give it to me back. Well, okay, let me give it. Remember the comedian, and I cannot remember their name recently that was just on stage in

Austin and it was making fun of Asian people, an Asian person in the audience. Right. And everybody was laughing. Not everybody may have, but the majority, you could hear a lot of laughs and people joking and not seeing something was wrong with him. That wasn't even funny. Right. He was literally,

but he thought he was being funny and he thought he was okay. And people take that and repost it because they think it's funny, not realizing they're hurting or don't care that they're hurting a group of people because that comedian said it as a joke

so it was funny, so it's just funny. Like to me, you have to be responsible for what you just said on stage and how that attacks a group of people and allows other people to think it's okay. So you're talking about Tony, Edgecliff, right? I can't remember saying, yeah.

So here's the deal. Most rational people that look at that goes, that's not funny. He's just up there insulting people, whatever. But what I'm saying is, if he gets up there and he thinks if that's what he wants to say, that's fine. But he can't, then my point is not in him saying it. My point is not that he shouldn't say that. I think that if that's what he wants to do on stage, he should do it. My point is when you get off stage and a bunch of people go, hey, you xenophobic, racist asshole.

You can't then hide your hands and be like, why are you trying to cancel me? And so I think that Kevin Hart and I think Kevin Hart, Charles Barkley, Bill Maher, all the white people who are talking about having their speech police, their speech police. I think everyone who is talking about this, present company included, right? Everybody who's discussing this needs to understand that it's not about what you're saying. It's about who's talking back to you. That's really what you don't want to hear. You don't want to be challenged. I enjoy being challenged, right?

You don't want to be challenged. But I definitely don't want to have to put out anything and think about how it might actually. influence someone. Like when I think about the way it portrays the actual group, right? So if I'm going to write a movie about black people, I want them to be portrayed in a certain light. A light that's true to true or to who I am.

Now, it's always not going to be a positive light because sometimes we fuck up and I'm going to show that in my movies. Sure, we're not perfect. Right. And so my thing, no group is. And so my thing is, but if I do make something what black people are acting up and the way my cousins actually act the way my people in Baton Rouge actually act,

I'm not giving somebody else carte blanche to go say, yo, this is the way niggas are because we saw it in something or heard something that Vance it. But we already agree that standing on stage and making a joke is not necessarily the same thing of what is depicted in the movie.

I don't think that that's the same thing. But it's close enough to where it's in the same conversation for me. That's all I'm saying. It's close enough. But so then what comedians do you like, Rachel? Who do you like to watch? Who do you be up there watching? But I'm a person who I'm a person though

who can listen to the joke and take it for what it is as a joke. I'm not going to go then repeat it and think oh because they said it and it was funny even if it was problematic they said it got people, it got laughter I'm not going to then go repeat that to another group of people or feel like I have permission to do it

because this comedian did it and these people laughed at it. It made it okay. I can separate the two so I can listen to that and then not go and out. on it. I guess. Right, but who I like as a comedian has nothing to do with it.

Okay, cool. All right. Let's take a break. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, market peach, apricot, rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango, Yuzu, chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new three, 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sales signs storewide

and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. All right, so we have to touch on Rita Moreno, just real quick. You don't want to do it? Okay, we'll skip it. No, no, no, no.

We can talk on Rita. You hate that. You hate what Rita said. Let's talk about Rita. Rita. Rita Moreno, who I love, by the way. Rita Miranda, it's amazing,

amazing actress, dancer. She went on Stephen Colbert and basically told people to get off Lin-Muel Miranda's back about in the heights and say that we should celebrate the movie and nothing's ever going to be perfect.

You can't be perfect enough for people. And of course, Rita said it. And now she is moonwalking. We're going to start doing a segment called Moonwalk of the Week. Yeah, let's do it. A segment called Moonwalk of the Week.

where we just put Michael Jackson's music well can we even use his music see I'm incredibly disappointed with myself while making a statement in defensive Linwell Miranda and Corbyr last night I am clearly dismissive of black lives that matter in our Latin community

it's so easy to forget blah blah blah blah blah I was wrong Rita Moreno they kicked my ass on Twitter all right I knew she was going to apologize did you know of course yes she was going to apologize she did it very quickly I listen I just don't have much to say

what did she say like can't you just wait a while can't you just wait a little bit but look this is my thing though I'm sure there are people who feel that way I'm sure there are people that that Of course No no no what I mean by that is just like people who Just wanted the opportunity to celebrate the movie

To celebrate the movie that felt that way And she's friends with Lynn Noel Miranda who he put out his whole thing I'm sure there were people that felt that way But Rita. But I thought that's what was great about Angie. She said, go see the movie. Go celebrate it.

We want to see more movies made that represent Latinos. But then you can also say, hey, be critical of this. This is what was this a little problematic. It needs to be happened. What happens next. If people were saying boycott the movie, and I'm sure some people are, but if Angie had come on here and said boycott it, don't support this, that would have been a totally different conversation.

But that's not what she did. She said support it. It's a beautiful piece of work. but there were problems within it and I think that's what people need to realize it's not people not everyone is screaming that this is a movie that should be taken down

it shouldn't be made and forgetting all the things that Lynn Manuel Miranda has done they're saying hey there was a problem with this let's do better the next time let's call it out so when we see it again we can see it in a more way that represents the true community

that's it hmm Rita said fuck that Greta, she really did. And Colbert tried to throw her a bone. He was kind of like, okay, so are you really, is it really just about the fact that people are criticizing Lynn Manuel and Rand? She's like, no, no.

Can't you all just wait? See, look, and I like Stephen Colbert. I do, too. He's great. But when you want to save somebody, like, throw him an actual life raft. Don't, don't like dip your toe in the water and say, Oh, please. She should have known.

No, no. No I'm saying. If you're going to save her, save her. He didn't have to save her. He didn't have to do anything, right? Could have just let her go on and on. Yeah. Yeah.

All right. Jay Z is suing a photographer named Jonathan Mannion. Did you see this? Jay Z is suing a photographer called, his name is Jonathan Manion. Jonathan Manion is one of the, one of the most iconic hip-hop photographers of all time. shot Jay Z's album cover Reasonable Doubt. So many of the images that you've seen over the years, Jay Z.

John the Manion has shot them. He is white. He's a white man. Okay. And so he's a white dude. And Jay Z now wants to sue him. It says according to this organization that sometimes produces celebrity news. TMZ.

Jay Z is suing Jonathan Manion because he is exploiting Jay Z's name and image without the rapper's consent. Okay. Jay Z says that Mannion has his name and lightness plastered all over his website and sells photos of Jay Z for thousands of dollars. Jay Z says he never gave Jonathan Manning permission to do this. And he said he asked Jonathan Manion to quit doing this. and Mannion is asking for millions of dollars. And then Jay says it's arrogant that Jonathan Mannion is asking for these, is asking for this.

He's making the arrogant assumption that because he took these photos, he can do with them as he pleases. All right. Manion has fought back. Well, doesn't he own the photos? Yeah. Like Manion has fought back. Jay says this.

It's ironic that a photographer will treat the image of a formerly unknown black teenager, now wildly successful as a piece of property to be squeezed for every dollar it can produce. Okay. The photo is the piece of property. And if a photographer takes pictures, he owns the rights to those photographs. And unless there's some type of contract between the two of them that says that the photos can only be used in a certain manner, then Mannion owns them and can use them as he pleases.

I'm confused on that. I'm going to tell you guys what's happening here. So the picture of the teenagers that Jay Z was talking about was Jay with a whole bunch of teenagers. I guess it was from like the Hardin' Out Live video shoot or something like that. Let me tell you what's happening right now with this situation. Jonathan Mannion. Jay Z doesn't want Jonathan Manion to probably sell these pictures as NFTs and all of

stuff because he probably could and make a lot of money stop making money off another size. JZ is different now than he is now. He's a cultural icon. He wasn't that during the 90s when he took these pictures with Jonathan Mannion and now he probably wants to have complete control over his image.

That makes a lot of sense. Also, Jonathan managed to be very very, very, very careful in this situation. Very. Because what this really is, what this really is is a standard beef going back between like a photographer and somebody who they shot.

It happens a lot normally with Instagram models, but this time is with Jay-Z. But Jay-Z is probably going to try to ruin him. And if you look at some of the language that's in the lawsuit and the stuff that TMZ reported, you know, Jonathan Mannion saying, hey, Jay-Z saying, hey, it's weird that he would use a photo of a black teenager, then try to resell it all years and years for profit and going back and forth.

He's going to try to end Jonathan Man if he doesn't get his way. And another thing that Jonathan would have to remember is that TMZ broke this exclusively, and that's not an accident. Like Rock Nation gives stories to TMZ. And so, and I know that that's a thing. like rock nation will work with tm z they have contacts in the office so if if whatever hovin them want i can tell you right now that job demanded you just like it's so unfair can i'm missing something here and they had some other sort of agreement we see people have young

pictures of artists that they took all and and and and resell them or sell them to someone else to be able to license to use it all the time. So what makes Jay-Z so different in this case to where this photographer took the time to take these pictures and still wants to use work that he did? That's so unfair. And then that he could, as you're saying, potentially this could be bad and he could ruin him because Jay-Z's not getting his way. Like at the same time, this guy photographed you when you weren't as big of a deal. Right. And took the time to take pictures of you for whatever. He got paid for taking the business.

Okay, fine, but he also wasn't what he is now. But what I'm saying is he still did it. And he wasn't what he is now. And now you want to end this guy potentially. I'm not, that's not what he said. But like take this guy to court over his own craft. It's not about taking him to court because he probably doesn't have much legal ground to stand on here. It's not about taking him to court.

Well, he filed it. He did take him to court. He filed a lawsuit. I know. But it's that that right there was, You guys have to understand the way the celebrity thing works, right? So you can't get a story broken on something unless there's a lawsuit that goes along with it. So he's trying to get the court of public opinion to speak out about this?

1,000 percent. 1,000 percent, JZ and everybody with him, the game that's being played right now. So you just made us complicit. And I don't have a dog in the fight. It's just the way that it is. But we have information that other people are. and I have is really about nothing other. Jonathan Mannion has shot for Jay-Z.

He shot Alia. He shot Al-Qaeda. He shot everybody. He shot everyone. This is a special relationship that he has with Hope. It was one of the biggest things he ever did because those are iconic and classic. And I understand Jay even wanting to control his situation,

but sometimes you can't control everything. And I understand Mannion wanting to use it. That's what I'm saying. Sometimes you can't control everything. He shot the pictures. He has a. right to the pictures and the reality is that what's going to happen now is that Jay is going to use all of that power to have the whole world thinking this guy's a culture of vulture and it's the

same games being played and like everything that's going on at the office there are other people that that that playbook has been that has been run on they should it should just be a lesson of people that when you it should be a lesson of people that when you work with a photographer a videographer that you have contractual language in there that they can't use your likeness and image without your permission or you agreeing to it or it has to be for specific use. So learn from the mistake that was made before

and have a tighter contract. So this doesn't happen to you. All right, look, here's a deal. Look, Jonathan Mannion. About to be a long year. Keep doing what you're doing. It's about to be a long year. Oh, said, your arms is too short.

You know what I'm saying? Keep doing what you're doing. You're picking a fight with a culture God. It's not going to work out. I'm telling you. It's going to be different. It's going to be different. All right, I know you got to go.

We don't have time for mailback. I got to go. Don't put you put this on me. You got to go. I got to go because we had to rework it because somebody doesn't know how to calculate the time difference when they travel. Boy, it's very upsetting. double booked you guys he double booked the show

own family do you like that it's very upsetting you do you do it to me every podcast so look these these questions from Kayla Kayla Colin Barham Rochelle crest Rachel Walrusai Wallerius

Rachel is how do you wait till did you say Rachel come on there let it go just let it go Wallerius W-A-L-E-R-I-U-S is that Wallerius Walarius, Willarius? Wilarious.

Nigna, how you know what it is? Like you are, I mean, Tony, don't come in here with that. Anyway, and Valerie Lai, Lay. We'll do those questions next week, but shout out to you guys for your no-back questions. Richard, do you have an unexpected ally of the week? No, I didn't even think about it. I feel like I did. I forgot.

There's one somewhere. I have one. There's this guy that I like on Instagram. his name is the jolly ginger. Have you seen this guy? No, but that's a funny name. No, Jolly Good Ginger. And he's, and he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he calls out white supremacy, sexism, or racism, wherever.

And he does a good job. He's a, he's, he's very, very funny in the way that he calls it out with the comments, his method. So I'm going to give him some love real quick. Shout out to him. Jolly good ginger. That's my unexpected ally of the week. All right, Rach. Jonathan Mayn, put your hard hat on, bro.

It's about to get tough for you. It's about to get tough, Jonathan. Andy, hold your man down because it's about to get tough for Jonathan. All right. Tell you think cats off, but do not stop learning. I am Van Lathen. I'm Rachel Lindsay. We out.