Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Kamala Harris Has Evolved As a Politician Into a Progressive VP Candidate, Plus Mailbag Friday

Episode Date: August 14, 2020

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay go in depth on Kamala Harris’s selection as Joe Biden’s vice presidential candidate and her history in politics (4:04). Then they discuss the recent accusation against Yale University that it discriminates against Asian American and white applicants (1:00:15), and take another round of mailbag questions (1:09:30), before giving their Unexpected Allies of the Week (1:31:40). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? It is higher learning. I am Van Lathen. What's up, guys? I'm Rachel Lindsay. Rachel, how are you? How's your week going?

It's been a big week, a very eventful news week this week. It has. It's been a busy week. Now that it's been announced, I'm in the middle of filming Ghosted, so it's just been crazy because I've been filming all day and then also trying to pay attention to what's happening in the world. But I did miss, you know, some of the biggest announcements.

Oh, oh, oh, before we get into it, I just want to say on the last podcast, we talked about, I said how all the thought warriors hit you up and they don't hit me up. I got flooded with so many, hey, Big Rage, we love you, fellow thought warrior here. We're here. We just wanted to flood your inbox.

Thank you, guys. That was so sweet. I appreciate that. Basically what you're saying is that you finally checked your DMs. Maybe, but I just wanted. I just want to give a shout out. They'll be showing you love probably the whole time. You probably checked your DMs, right?

I just want them to know that I see them. And we appreciate you. I love this community that we're building. I love it too. They hit me up all week about you, too, by the way. Okay, let me just say something about that. Because, listen, I love y'all. I love y'all, but y'all better stop tattling on me to van.

I was like, your name? It was literally a disson. a negative comment, how they're disappointed in me, and I get it. They tag me, they tag my co-host and van. And I'm like, why? So, here's the, go ahead, go ahead. No, so here's the thing about that. Number one, we'll get into it, but here's the thing about that.

Like, this is the, I don't know what you guys, I don't know what, I started to actually address people after a while. I'm not sure what the hopeful, what you guys. hope to do when you're tattling on, Rachel. When you're, what's the objective, should I say? Is the objective? They want you to call me out. People would say that.

Call you out. That's what they would say. Get her, van. Apparently, that's the persona that you've displayed on this podcast. I don't call you out. I mean, I rib you a little bit. But do you understand, first of all, I have no idea what people are talking about. I had to look it up.

So do you want to address it? Do you want to talk about it? I'm just going to say a lot of people are like, you've been so silent on it, and I'm not one to be silent, and I do address things head on, and I also encourage people to hold me accountable for certain things. So I'm not even mad about it.

I do address it on the next Bachelor Happy Hour podcast. So, you know, because that's the platform that I use where I offended people, then that's the platform that, you know, I address it. Completely fair. And I'll just say this, you know, it was fun for me to go down. It was kind of like when you're, when you have, a sister, right?

My actual sister, and you know that they've done something and you're like, ooh. My sister used to be like, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you in trouble. And I was like, that's kind of my thing. I hope nobody thought I was going to get in here. Tell them what you text to me.

I was like, just straight up, they mad at you. That's what I said. Like, they mad at you. I'm not going to get on here. So she, so Rachel is saying, for whatever the guest was, she's going to address it on the next podcast. Yeah.

That is completely fair. That is the way that goes. Because it's Bachelor Happy Hour people. It's Bachelor Nation. So you can catch it on Bachelor Happy Hour. But I definitely heard your comments. I saw them. And I address it.

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Tap this ad to learn more about trim fire, including important safety information. Now, speaking to things to address, we have to address the biggest news of the week and maybe the best news. Some of the best news of the entire year. And this is for two reasons. But we should say what the news is. Presidents are hope for Joe Biden, the presumptive Democratic nominee, announced this week that Kamala Harris is his running mate.

After weeks and weeks of speculation, the announcement was made formally. We are now living in a Biden-Harris era. When you heard this news, Rachel, how did you feel? Well, my first thought was thank God for the letter because otherwise we might not have been here

if that letter shut up it was ever shut up it was going to happen anyway the letter that was my first thought and that was the crazy thing

about the letter the crazy thing about the letter is the letter kind of came I signed the letter and I stand by every word in the letter but the letter kind of came as that was going to happen anyway so it was kind of like

we was just like yo do what we do what we We say you need to do or else we're going to do this, but they were already going to do that. We're going to write another letter. But, nah, the letter was very important because it's very important for black men to show solidarity with our sisters. But yeah, the letter. I loved it, but I has a, who, thank God for the letter. I don't know if we would be having this conversation right now.

Shade. But, no, my first thought, when I was filming, I was filming ghosted. And my, my, the head of production is, like, very big and some politics and everything. So immediately all I wrote, I was just writing to people one word, Kamala. Like I was just sending out mass text messages. Kamala. Kamala. Kamala.

Yeah, I was into it. I was excited even more than I thought I was going to be. I mean, I assumed that that was going to be the decision, the choice, but just hearing it announced, it was like, I don't want to hear any. I know the critiques are going to come and all of that. But for me, I just wanted to relish in the moment of like the representation mattered to me, who she is. what she represents for so many people, it mattered to me. And I thought, this is a woman who's overcome sexist stereotypes, racist stereotypes, just to climb the professional ladder to get where she is.

She has fought all the way to get where she is. And I just thought she's going to be so, she's so, she's so many things that Biden isn't and that Trump isn't. And I mean, we can get all into this later. but my initial thought was I just felt like her representation mattered. It mattered to me. She is qualified. She's qualified not just because she's a black, Asian, American woman.

It's not that. She's qualified, period. On paper, she's everything. And it's the added bonus that she's also a woman of color. And a woman. And a woman. So many things. So many things were realized with that announcement.

So it was beautiful. very true. I felt a lot of the same way that you did. But my initial first reaction was, that's what I thought. You know what I'm saying? That's what I thought. We said pick a black woman.

The community demanded that. And then Joe Biden gave us that. That's what I thought. Biden. Give us the black lady, the black woman the lead that we asked you for. But I said that, but at the same time I have to say why that was an important thing.

It's an important step, but I'll tell you why. Why? It's an important step because it showed to me that Joe Biden, for all of his personal flaws and his inability to reconcile some of the dioceseer parts of his record, is committed to delivering on what he says he's going to attempt to deliver on for the black community. If you're going to have, like we talked about before, a comprehensive black agenda, if you're going to address some of these problems that exist in our community systemically, if we tell you we want some people that look like us to walk lock step with you in addressing

those problems. And we want somebody there to do that. And then you say, okay, here's somebody that can help you do that. That is, that to me is what politics is about. Politics from a citizenry to a politician is about asking for something or better yet demanding something. And then having politicians that you align with, delimilar. on those promises. And we asked Joe Biden for some. First of all, we gave Joe Biden something, which is his political viability.

Then we asked for something. Joe Biden gave us something. And hopefully that is something that can continue as far as negotiating in good faith with the African American community. Was there any doubt, though, for you that he was not going to pick a black woman

as his running mate? I think if not for the George Floyd 100%. Civil unrest. that he picks Amy Klobuchar. I completely agree with you. Yeah. But I'm saying once what happened,

once the murder of George Floyd happened, once you had this civil unrest, and there was this demand from the black community, did you have any doubt that he wasn't going to pick? No, I knew that it would be her for some week now. Not new as in almost in circles, but I knew and felt that it was going to be her for some time now. But, you know, there were some troubling things when you had Clyburn, Jim Clyburn, a guy who have a lot of, I have a lot of respect for him, come out and say, you know, it doesn't have to be a black woman.

And there was some dissension amongst really, really, really plugged in members of the Democratic political machine that there wasn't, it wasn't necessary for them that it was a black woman. It started to seem as if the case was being made or more. more to the point that the groundwork was being laid for him not to have done it. And that's kind of why Angela and those sisters wrote their letter and why we matched their intensity and energy with the letter that we wrote and signed, that excuse me, that we signed, because we wanted to make sure that they knew the powers that be, the people that are behind the campaign and the people that are in sort of the democratic

upper echelons of influence, that that was not going to be acceptable. for us. There were specific reasons why we were asking for that. But look what it did. You know, we've been talking about how people aren't excited for Joe Biden. It's more of they're running away from something more than they're excited to see what he's going to do in office. And with the announcement of Kamala Harris, it's just the excitement is through the roof. I mean, they have completely, give you something to vote for. The attention has completely been taken away and Trump has tried to bring it back to him. But it is all about this ticket and what this ticket is going to do.

And it is because of the contrast, because of Biden being an older white man versus Kamala, who's black, Indian, 20 years younger than he is, just brings a whole lot more to the table. You know, you've got Joe Biden who's been accused of having all these gaffes. You've got Kamala who's like, you know, to the point direct with her rhetoric and how she questions people and people are excited to see that. I've never seen people talk so much about the vice president debate than I have since Kamala's out. I mean, the reality is she gives you something to be excited about, she, for a lot of reasons.

And we're going to talk a little bit more about who she is and her past and how she's reconciled some things or maybe fail to reconcile some things either. Because, you know, we're talking about a politician here. So if you look at a politician in a holistic way, you're not going to ever really find perfection. Anybody, though. Anybody. Well, I mean, we have to be honest about this. We have to be honest with the thought warriors here. We have to be honest with anybody else who's listening about who Kamala Harris has been and who she is now.

And we're going to try to, we're going to attempt to lay that out in a second. But I will say, to your point about having something to vote for, a lot of these political games are about how you see. By the way, I didn't mean to slight Representative Clyburn earlier. Far be it from me to say anything too negative about the great man from South Carolina. I'm just saying. He was scaring the shit out of me earlier. He was like, it doesn't necessarily have to be a black woman. I'm like, brother, come on.

Get on with us, man. We're trying something here. But no, so like when you, when you step back and you look at all of these things, a lot of what politics is and winning an election is about making people think about what their future could be. You know what I mean? about making people think about what America can be, if crafted correctly. Every four years, especially at the national level, somebody stands up there and tells you what America should be based upon what it is right now.

It's difficult to look at Joe Biden and think about the future of America and think about what needs to change in America, where his very presence, the way he speaks, and some of the things he's done in the past seem to hearken back to a... a different time. He seems almost, to be honest with you, as a relic. Now, a relic is much better than a fascist. So I would still be willing to support the relic. But in this vice presidential choice, it actually gives me, it lets me breathe out and gives me something to look forward to, to believe in somebody that we can grow with. I see that in Senator Harris. It's interesting that you say the future, because when I hear the,

or when I heard the announcement and I thought about it, I was like, okay, we're in the middle of something right now in the present. The state of the country is a specific way. And there are so many problems that are disproportionately affecting black and brown people and their communities. And there's so many things that Kamala Harris represents now that the country needs now in this state. So to me, that decision showed that you are addressing what the state of the country is in the present. And then that gives me hope for the future and what it can be. Because I would have felt, I kept saying representation matters.

If he had named someone who wasn't a woman of color, I would have felt like you don't hear us, you're not serious, you're not about us. And like you said, you're not taking the black agenda seriously. I feel seen and heard with this choice. Now, to be determined how it all plays out, I don't even want to worry about that right now. I want to relish in what is the moment. and that is, you know, a black Indian woman as vice president. Well, I mean, you know, just put this out there. I don't think Vice President Biden, if he wins on November,

I don't think he's going to finish his term. So to me it's all about the future. Like to me, it's all about the future. It's so sad. I don't think that he's going to finish his term. Look, look, I'll be honest with you. If Joe Biden gets into the White House in November, if he wins, there's no way that I can look at him as anything other

than right now as a political hero because of what he will have saved the country from with his election. Now, that's me saying this, when I have incredible issues with Joe Biden's disgusting record on mass incarceration, I'll never not say that because it would be a disservice to my uncles and my cousins that have been locked up

if we don't address what a blight mass incarceration was on our community and what the 1994 crime bill did with that. However, at this point right now, we're in a fight for the future of America. If we want to have communities, then we need to have a country. And I really do believe that four more years of Donald Trump

splits the country right down, not just ideologically, but actually, I believe there's an actual chance for an American civil war under Donald Trump. Now, let's get to Kamala Harris. Okay, so, Kamala Harris was the district attorney of San Francisco.

Let me show you guys know a little bit about her from 2004 to 2011. And she was the Attorney General of California from 2011 to 2017. So she is a junior senator of the most junior type. As far as being a senator, sister pretty much just got there. But she has a whole political life in the past. She, what you're going to do. going to be here in the next couple of weeks is a lot of hand-wringing about whether or not Kamala Harris was progressive enough as a prosecutor. So the moment that we're in right now,

where we're talking about police reform, reexamining America as a carceral society, the blight like I just told you about, the curse of mass incarceration, and public safety versus law and For a lot of people, it's precarious and for some people downright problematic to have someone that was that high-ranking a member of law enforcement. She's the Attorney General, the top cop, in the position that she's in right now. For you, Rachel, knowing that we're looking at re-examining the police, re-examining the criminal justice system, does Kamala Harris's record as a prosecutor, does the fact that she was such a prominent prosecutor bother you in any way?

No. Because there have been changes that have been made prior to what's happening in our country. Because I know a lot of people are like, oh, she's just changed her tune because of what's happening because it's popular. That's actually not true. She's really changed since she's become a senator. And that's when you've seen her be way more progressive. So 16 years ago, she becomes,

the district attorney in San Francisco, and she runs as she's the top cop. She's tough on time. She runs on a law and order ticket. I think she gets a big stick. I mean... Right. She wrote in her book in 2009,

she wrote in her book that she feels comfortable the more cops she sees on the street. She was a law and order candidate. Make no mistake about that. We have to be honest about that. Yeah. And that was also 16 years ago.

So if I'm, I'm not saying that we should not look at it and it shouldn't be something that you flag or that you note, but you have to see where that person has gone since that time. Absolutely. There's a time. Listen, we're here talking about a Biden ticket and we talk about what Biden did in the 80s with the anti-drug abuse bills that was all about incarceration as well and mandatory minimum sentencing for crack and cocaine sentences. It disparagingly affected black and brown people in our communities.

then you talk about the 1994 crime bill as well. So if we're going to let Biden get a pass or say that he's grown since then, you have to afford Kamala the exact same thing. Right. Well, to me, to me, like, you don't give anybody a pass. They earn a pass. And so the question would be, has Kamala Harris earned the pass for some of the more aggressive stances that she took? And I think that's the question

that's why you give people the information and you let them make a decision. I personally think that she has. But like, what do you think? Well, I was just going to say that it's easy to point out, yes, she, what her stance was when she was the DA in San Francisco, but there are also things that she did that were against being the top cop

that were pro-reform. So you have to look at both ways. Yes, she ran on the stance of top cop. So that's what you look at first. but she also did things to help the community. Same thing when she was the attorney general. You know, you can find things to critique when it came to that. But then there are also things that she was on the forefront of

and she was progressive with as attorney general. Like the three sentences, the three strikes rule in California. Actually, that's when she was district attorney. She was progressive about that as well. But once she was the senator, she really took a stance on police reform. And some of the bills that she's tried to push forward are about, you know, for equality.

and for reform and for protecting black and brown people, which is against what she did in 2004. So I think if you follow her track record, then you have to see the progression that she has made. Maybe she wasn't progressive to you in 2004, but there's no way that you can look at her now and not see her track record as being progressive, especially as a senator in California.

Okay. So the more progressive things that she did while she was, at the Attorney General of California slash the District Attorney of San Francisco is she instituted something called the Back on Track Program, which aimed at reducing recidivism by making sure that young offenders

could reenter society with jobs and school and helping them. And that's something that still exists right now, the Back on Track program. There's a public defender named Nikki Solis, who wrote an op-ed, in the USA Today that basically called Kamala Harris the most progressive district attorney

in California during her time. She said she was by far the most progressive and she then gave different instances as to why she felt like that was true. Now, a closer examination of her record was probably going to be problematic to some people that lived up there in Northern California and were in California at that time.

She also, routinely throughout, according to this public defender, minor drug cases, all right, they involved marijuana. She did not hit those

with the sledgehammer. She did not kill flies with the sledgehammer and then roll people up and send them away for those minor non-violent drug offenses. And she also, which is something that is

very close to my heart, was a part of at least in political thought, the movement to reform the cash bail system, which is a horrible, putrid thing. Another thing that she did was like when she was a prosecutor, she stopped prosecuting young girls who were accused or arrested for prostitution because there was such a heavy, heavy prevalence of human trafficking that was going on in Northern California at that time.

So there are things to point to in Kamala Harris's record as a prosecutor that would say that she was progressive. Absolutely, without a doubt. However, there are other things not so progressive. When she did run in 2004, she was endorsed by police unions, okay? She then fell out with police unions because she failed to go for the death penalty. against a gang member who killed a cop named Isaac Espinoza. So she actually flew in the face of the people that endorsed her during that time

because she is anti-death penalty, and she fell out of favor with those police officers. Now, if you read her record in its entirety, there's still some people that say that's the only time she flew in the face of the police and that she didn't do enough out there to reform a system that was unfairly arresting and putting in jail black and brown people. I will say when it comes to the death penalty, she definitely did that and she refused to give that person the death penalty. But then she appealed a judge's efforts later when she was the attorney general to end the death penalty. So that goes again because a lot of one of the critiques you're going to hear about Kamala Harris is that she is inconsistent.

they try to compare with the way that she is now versus the things that she did when she was district attorney and attorney general. And one of the things they'll say is she has gone, she's flip-flopped on the death penalty, but I will say where she stands right now, she does stand to end the death penalty. But her prior record has shown,

because people will say that, that she appealed a judge's decision to end it. Right. Well, in that particular case, she said basically it wasn't her office's job to step in there. That wasn't her deal, but when she had that opportunity to actually seek it out, she didn't. So it seems like to me she's consistent there.

I guess what I'm saying is this. Kamala Harris' career to me reflects somebody that has decided to do something that is very, very difficult. And that has worked within the system. I want people to have realistic expectations of politicians. Politicians are not activists. We wish that they were, right? we wish that politicians were completely, like, ridiculously sort of aligned with causes, but they can't be because the game of politics divorces you from being able to be effective if that's where your heart is. What politicians have to be able to do is lose a little bit and make some dirty alliances and do some things that.

the majority of us wouldn't do that feel a certain way. You should never be completely okay with the politician. If you are completely, completely good with any politician, you're not a thinker anymore. What you now are is a disciple because you cannot point to any sort of person that's held office, any type of office, that is going to be able to make decisions that are in your best answers at all times. That's just not the way politics works.

I think the most important thing about Kamala Harris' career is what you said earlier, is that she's done something that I have tried guys like Joe Biden and other guys that have a lot of political power for not doing. She's grown. She's attempted to at least reconcile some of her past stances and thoughts, at least in speech. Now, as far as what she'll be able to do when she has actually the chance to legislate things, we'll see. but she's at least turned the corner on a lot of things in terms of what she says she believes now.

And the only thing you can ask for from a politician is growth. Well, I mean, I will say there is one thing that you can point to that she has done, at least as a senator, and that's with, along with Senator Cory Booker, they were the two ones who were spearheading the Justice and Policing Act of 2020, which was aiming to decrease racial discrimination and increase accountability in policing with a number of reforms, which if you take that, that is against how she was when she first started out as a DA and what campaign she was running against. So that's what I mean by looking at her track record. And then even what you're watching right now with the clips,

all the committees that she sits on, you have to realize she started in 2017 as a senator. That's why Van is like she is the most junior, junior. And yet she has done so much. She is on, and I wrote this down because I was like, wow, she's on the committee on the budget, the committee on the judiciary, the committee on intelligence, the committee on homeland security and governmental affairs. This woman is extremely involved in the Senate and she's impactful and she's making marking or making an impression for herself. And that's why she is so equipped to stand beside Joe Biden. And something else you said, man, and I'm getting a little off and I'm going to let you go back, but you said that you don't.

think that Joe Biden is going to make it to four years and you're looking at him as a political hero because he has said, and I don't know if I've heard many other presidential candidates say this, he is picking somebody who can step right in and become the president after he's, I mean, if he doesn't make it all four years, if something happens to him. That means he sees Kamala Harris as presidential. This is a woman who could step up and lead our country. That's huge. And that's why he's a political hero. Yeah. Look, you know, she's other things, the cash bill thing I mentioned, she also worked with Rand Paul or wanted to work with you with your CAA. You're stunned. Oh, stop.

Look at it. Look at it. She's stunting. Let me drink out of my, let me drink out of my CAA water bottle. It's a getty. I am, I am repped by the finest of, it's me and Tom Cruise have the same age. Whatever, get out of here. I see when you're trying to stunt. I see what you're trying to stunt. That's why they touted on me because you call me out. This is what they were hoping for. I see when you're trying to stunt. Now, yeah, but she actually were working. She was working with Rand Paul across the aisle to address criminal justice and to shrink jails by reforming the cash bail system. So all those things are positive things.

She's seen right now by a lot of different groups as the most liberal senator in all of the Senate between her and Senator Sanders. So there are a lot of reasons if you're to the left of things to be excited about. where she could go. But there are also a lot of reasons, if you're to the left of things, to be not so excited about some of the things in her record. However, I'm pleading with people to not fall into any of the tropes or any of the attacks that are going to be used on her because they are being unfairly weaponized. One thing that makes me really confident in Senator Harris is that Fox News doesn't know how to attack. Nobody does.

Like Fox News literally doesn't know how to attack. I wrote this down. This was remarkable to me. So I always do my hate watch of Fox News when something happens. I shouldn't be doing it. You have to. You have to. But I do it anyway, right?

And we appreciate you for that. Listen, I got to come out here and know, I got to know what the devil is thinking. Listen to those pages turning. Wow. I'm flipping them, flipping them, flipping them. So I'm watching Fox News and I see Donald Trump say that Kamala Harris, if she is elected along with Joe Biden, right, is going to try to protect criminals. That that's going to be her thing.

She's going to protect criminals. Trump says that. Okay. I literally watched a little bit later on Fox News, Rudy Giuliani, say that she was going to be. going to undo all of the criminal justice reform that he and the president had made since they had been in office, said that Kamala Harris, the nomination of Kamala Harris would spit in the face of the First Step Act and all of the progress they've made on criminal justice reform. So the president is selling to his base that this woman is going to protect criminals.

She's anti-law and order. All of this. But Giuliani, one of the president's main mouthpieces, is on Fox saying, this is somebody who is a law and order person who has put black men in jail. And all this, they don't really know how to corral her. Because anytime somebody is dedicated to political growth and understanding the changing landscape of America, it gets hard to shackle them with ideology.

Because you have people who are in a situation, they're not holding on to these old alliances. They're saying, hey, I thought about it this way. I was inside of the system. I saw how this system didn't work. By the way, towards the end of Kamala Harris's tenure as the Attorney General, she had opened up some investigations into police officers, into police like offices, police departments around California.

She was more receptive to understanding how structural law enforcement was failing the population of the state. So, I mean, those are things that when you're talking about, whether or not somebody is who they say they are, you have to look at their record and their progression in its totality. Absolutely. So Trump doesn't know how to attack Kamala

because she threatens him in every single way. Her stance, her beliefs, who she is, just her existence in general is a complete threat to Donald Trump. And the only thing he can resort to doing is to stereotyping her by calling her an angry black woman, basically. That's the only thing he's got in phony. I've seen the ads that are running. That's all he's literally resorted to calling Kamala phony and Joe Biden slow.

That's it. He has nothing towards her because everything that Kamala, I said this earlier, about how she has overcome so many obstacles in her climb on the professional ladder to get to where she is today. Trump has done none of that. Trump, everything he's done has been given to him. And as Kamala Harris said, when she addressed, America when they first came out together, Joe Biden and Kamala yesterday, everything he touches, he

destroys. That's the exact opposite of Kamala Harris. Everything she touches thrives. It progresses. She is representative and embodies what I hate to use the term. I don't want to use the term American dream because I don't believe in that. But she embodies what you can be. I guess I should say with hard work. Her parents, her mother being Indian, her father being Jamaican, they're both immigrants. They were, they met at Berkeley. This is another history lesson on Kamala. You know, Kamala grew up. She already has talked about busing. She grew up and was born into segregation. Everything that she has done has been against her and she has overcome it. That ain't Trump. She's literally the antithesis. I cannot speak today. She's literally the opposite of you.

Antithesis is the words you're looking for. My sister. I can't speak. I can't speak today. No, so look, there are a lot of brothers who have hit me up, especially people that lived up in Northern California, right? Shout out to my man, Jamal True Love in a fantastic movie up there called The Last Black Man in San Francisco. I would encourage you guys to go listen to Jamal's story and why he has problems with Kamala Harris and what his life has been about. Okay? And there are a lot of people that come from that area up there who are going to have problems. problems divorcing themselves from a tough on crime district attorney slash attorney general.

I get that and I completely understand that. And I am not going to ever, ever, ever shout them out or drown them out. They are people who lived through somebody's unenvolved politics. And by the way, when you're talking about people who live through uninvolved politics, God damn it, they always happen to be black. We always catch the people directly affecting us when they are at their most sort of politically unenvolved state. By the time they turn into the butterfly,

they no longer will it can affect us. We don't get many of those butterflies. We got Michael Tubbs and a couple of other people like that. But other than that, we don't get many butterflies. We get a lot of calipillers that crawl around in the black community. And when there's more out there, they become butterflies later. There's a lot of people out there that are probably feeling that way about Kamala Harris right now. I personally believe in Kamala Harris.

I think that she is a good pick. I think she's a strong pick. And I think that empowering someone like her, who is in the butterfly stage of their political journey. Yes, she is. is going to allow us to have more of these people, more of these people gain power across the nation. Very important. The White House sets a standard and an example for what the West of the political rhythms of America are.

So it's very important to have some as progressive as these issues right there right now. Also, she was born at a very interesting time. We are waiting for me personally. for the AOCs and the Michael Tubbs's and the Ted Jameses and all of these young liberal Democrats who are incredibly progressive, we're waiting for their turn, right? But it's a little premature now. Yeah. I think Kamala represents the perfect bridge.

She's in the perfect spot. Shout to Baccari Sellers who made this point. she's at the perfect spot to usher in the new left that we want to see. And a new left, a progressive left, and not just a progressive left, but a progressive left with the opportunity to be progressive in more than just thought, to be progressive in legislation and to be progressive in action. I think she represents that bridge. So if she were to be in the Oval Office one day, as the president of the United States,

I'm all for that. She was who I supported before she dropped out and then I moved over to Senator Sanders. So I think that, but it would be dismissive to us, for us, and it would be also disrespectful to our black brothers and sisters, our brown brothers and sisters that lived up there in those Northern California communities that might feel unheard right now not to address some of the issues that they might have with Senator Harris's past. I also just think it's important because you don't want to just hear the positive. if you don't, her career didn't start in 2017 when she became a senator. And you need to understand where she came from to understand where she's, where she's gone or where she's come from and where she is right now. So yeah, no, I mean, I'm, I'm more than happy to talk about that. I think that because also we're going to see this criticism come from the other side. So if you're trying to understand

where President Trump is coming from when he says certain things or attacks against Kamala Harris, now you have a better understanding, but you know that it wasn't just about her being tough on crime. There were other things that she did that did benefit the community as well. Sure. And she was not just benefited the community

or still benefiting the community right now. Right. She was working inside of that system. And I think, you know, but also, to be honest with you, just on some real shit, I think she's changed. I think when she was like,

at the time she takes over, takes over, that's 2004, right? That's coming right off the hills of the era of mass incarceration. That's coming right off the hills of Rudy Giuliani, tough on crime in New York, drive the crime down, all of that stuff like that.

That's back when people thought that that shit worked, that that was going to map out America for another generation and turn us into some sort of utopia. By the time everybody was in prison and then those same people came back home with no opportunities in this country

and the police didn't reform or change at all and were offing black people almost weekly, by the time we realized, well, a problem it was, a lot of those people had their clamps so into those structures, the privatization of prisons and all of those things. Prison over the last 30 years specifically has become enormous big business in this country. And there was definitely an era of American politicians, both Democrat and Republican, who not just turned a blind eye,

to that system being what it is right now, who helped usher it in and got fat off of it. And the people that came right after that probably in a way were tethered to it, if not tethered to it directly, but maybe even tethered to it passively. Right. Do you ever think,

and I'm just thinking of this now as we're talking about this, that because Kamala has never been as strong or tough on crime as she was when she was running for office as the district attorney in 2004? You ever think that she played the game just to get her foot in the door and then build on it from there? Because she's never been that extreme since.

I think it's probably a mixture of too. I don't want to jump in her head, but I think it's probably a mixture of two. I think, number one, there was definitely a game that be played. By the way, she's never lost an election. So whatever, she's, she's, the sister's a winner. Okay? She's never, she's never lost an election. She's a winner.

So there's a part of me that says she knows what she has to do to get elected, which, by the way, is a huge, huge plus to me right now because I need her to get elected now. Right. Okay? Right. I need to get elected now. So it's good to have a winner in there, all right?

It's good to have a winner in there. Like, she knows what it takes to get elected. But also, you know, I think things change. Look, if you go back and you get a snapshot of me back then, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm a different person. I'm sure you're a different person. I think that, oh, you're not. You're the same.

Okay. Rachel's always woke. president of the African-American Students Association. But no, I think that anytime I see a politician evolving, I like it because it's the rigidness that keeps America stuck where it is. Give an example of a politician who evolved,

something that we don't talk about a lot. President Barack Obama, when he ran for president in 08, was not pro-gay marriage. They asked Joe Biden about gay. about gay marriage during that time. Joe Biden said, not marriage. Don't care what did you call it? Civil unions or whatever.

Civil unions was definitely the term they were using. Civil unions, why? They felt like actually coming out. And by the way, if you're anti-gay marriage, go fuck yourself. Agree. Just go, go, go, especially if you have a platform. If you have a platform in your anti-gay marriage, go dive off your platform. You know what I mean?

It's just so weird that people in love can't get married because you're a fucking doucheback. Anyway, but it's just a weird, it's just a, that's not some weird old shit to you? Yeah, I mean, it's just stupid. Like, you have no basis for it.

You're holding on to absolutely nothing. You're just doing it to do it. That's how I feel. Honestly, I feel like I don't even come across that many people who are that anti. I guess I just don't follow them. I don't pay attention to it. I know they're out there,

obviously. I know they're out there. I'm not just, I'm not saying that they're not. I'm just saying they're not. No, man. Motherfuckers is, anti. Anyway, I know. It's pissed me off. Yeah, so. It's ridiculous. Yeah, but yeah, but they, you know,

either they, either they were playing the game to get into the White House and they had a plan to be proactive on it all along, or they opened their ears and they learned. They evolved on the issue. Right. You, you, want people who can listen, especially to different movements. That's what I was going to say.

Right. The evolvement means you're paying attention. Yeah, it means your antenna's up. You want politicians with their antennas up. One more thing about Kamala to you, and we're probably going to talk about this for another half hour. What? Here come the attacks.

You said it before. Kamala is the daughter of... I hate this. A Jamaican immigrant. Okay. And an Indian immigrant. Okay. The attacks have already come.

Yep. And we'll continue to come that Kamala Harris isn't black enough. Wait, I've seen that she's not even, well, they're saying she's not African American, which is what it, I was, irate. Oh, whoa, whoa, that she's not African American? Yes. I was, I haven't seen that. What do you mean that she's not African-B. My mom was sending it to me.

There's this whole thing, you know how Facebook is. It's like sending me all this stuff that people are saying. They're saying she's not African-American because her father was Jamaican and he has said that they are the descendants of a slave owner. And I'm like, that absolutely means nothing. This is what people are saying. And it's the same thing we saw with Barack Obama. But what does that have to do with anything? It's just this is the kind of stuff that they have no, nothing to.

Well, it has a little bit to do with something. No, it doesn't. Well, why? Why? Yeah, it does. Why? Yeah, it does. Why?

Okay. I'll just be honest with it. you. Because it means something different to be the descendants of American slaves. Like Barack Obama, I'll tell you, I'll tell you why. Number one, I don't have any problems with Barack Obama being president. Barack Obama, black as hell. Kamala Harris, black as hell.

But I'm going to tell you something when a nigger named Larry Jenkins Jr. becomes president who can trace his lineage back to some plantation in Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, or Florida. South Carolina, I'm telling you that is different. Most people haven't done that. I haven't traced my lineage back, even though I know I'm a descendant from slaves.

That doesn't measure my blackness at the end of the day because when people see me, they see black. Nobody knows that if you see me, you don't know that I was born in America versus I was born in Jamaica. Haiti, like, you don't know. You don't know that. So it doesn't take away.

Right. It doesn't take away from your blackness. I'm not saying that it takes away from your blackness. It doesn't take away from your experience. It doesn't take away from your experience, but your experience is different. She was born here. She was born into segregation, despite the fact that her father is, he immigrated here. So her whole experience is American.

But even the fact that her father is, immigrated here, establishes the fact that there was some economic basis for him to leave where he was from and then come to America. So that in it of itself, right? He came for school. Whatever. Or that he came for school. That in it of itself, the fact that he was able to make a choice to come to America.

Immigration to this country and having been the descendants of African slaves here, that is a different experience. And that is a different experience. I think it's a different experience for the person who does it. In terms of what? It's a different experience for her father who was born in Jamaica and immigrated here. He hasn't, like, he's an immigrant. He has a totally different experience.

Kamala doesn't have that same experience. She has an experience as a child from someone who was black and someone who was Indian. She grew up in segregation. She was viewed as being a black child in an American country, in the United States. That is her entire experience. Sure, her father might talk about the descendants and where they came from and the culture that they came from. But her experience is being black in America. But I think when you say experience, you're narrowing it down to what people see in Kamala Harris or anybody in this situation.

But she identifies as that. I know. But what I'm saying is she's black. Barack Obama black. These people are black. But what I'm telling you is all my African homies that have emerald. immigrated here and our second generation. We all black.

We all black. But I'm telling you that when you say experience, you're not just talking about a social experience or even a political one. You're talking about an economic experience. You're talking about all kinds of things, all kinds of roadblocks that are specific to black people who've experienced slavery here on this continent. By the way, shout up. But by the way, I'm not saying that in Jamaica or in other places because those areas and those islands in the Caribbean are depressed by the legacy of slavery as well.

Exactly. But the immigrants that were able to come to America to come over here represent a different percentage of the people that were able to even escape that. But the reason I say that it's so convoluted to me because you're talking about I'm, I am African American. I was born here. my ancestors are descendants of slaves. But you talk about an economic experience that I experience is different because my descendants are slaves,

yet I grew, I'm a Cosby kid, as you love to say. So it's like, I'm not, that doesn't register to me because you want to talk about an economic experience that is different for me because my descendants are slaves, yet I grew up a certain way. So like it's, everybody's experience is different.

Like that doesn't make any, that doesn't, I don't know, It just, I just feel like... Well, look, shout out to you for being a Cosby kid and your parents for overcoming, but not only am I not a Cosby kid, but I didn't know nothing.

But I get that. But everybody's black experience is different. No, I know, but there are common threads also in people's black experiences. And I'll tell you this. Since we're talking about it, is there any sort of... So, Kamala Harris is now

the second person on a major ticket to be a second black person on a major ticket, right? Barack Obama was the first black person on a major ticket as the president. She's now the vice president. Is it at all interesting to you that neither one of those people, neither one of those people, Barack Obama and then Kamala Harris, I hear you. That neither one of them have relatives that are in the down.

home Alabama, Louisiana that we're both talking about. And by the way, I understand that this is a difficult conversation for people to hear, and it's very divisive. But I have to be it is. It's very divisive. No, no, I agree with that part. It's divisive for no other reason except for

the fact that's divisive. However, I have to be honest about my feelings about that and my feelings about that. That's a sister. That's a AKA from Howard, Barack Obama, that is a black man from Chicago. However, in the history of both of those people, it is different.

And those differences, at least on the margins, seem to matter. Because we, as the people we're talking about, we have yet to have, not us, but like the specific group of black people that I'm talking about, we haven't had nobody get a Democratic nomination for president. But wait, wait, what specific black people are you talking about?

People from the South, people from descendants of slaves, People from descendants of American slavery. But do, okay, I'm, again, I am a descendant from slaves in America. I am so far removed from it. It's not that I don't recognize and it's said that I don't know it, but things from as generation to generation as generation has come, I'm not, I guess it's like your experiences are so different. I understand the correlation that you're making between Barack and Kamala,

but I just don't see the fact that you can take away that she had a black experience just because her father was an immigrant or Barack Obama's father was African. It just doesn't correlate to me that because, because this just take you and me, you have descendants from slaves and so do I. And we had two totally different experiences growing up, yet we're both from the South and both of our descendants are from slaves.

Right. Are you blacker than me? Would you say, okay, okay. No, no, no, no, no. was on the presidential ticket, would you say that one of us didn't make, like, would you still hold that same thing? No, this has nothing to do with who's blacker. I've acquiesce to the fact that you're talking about same experience. No, no, no, right. So, like, I'm not, this has nothing to do with what would you say if I was on, if somebody like me was on the ticket? Both my parents were born

here and a descendant of slaves. Would you say, no, it would, you, to me, would represent the entire swath of people that I'm talking about. And by the way, it's not that I would be any blacker than you. First of all, having a struggle does not equate blackness, right? So I'm not saying that struggling or not being or not being, the Cosby kids are

as black as Thia's kids. Remember Thia? Not Theo. How long was Theo all for? Maybe, maybe two seasons. Long enough? for Brandy to be known.

Right. So the Cosby kids are as black as Thea's kids, all right? The same thing. And by the way, everybody is as black as everyone is. What I'm saying is there is a difference. And that is, there is. I'm sorry. There is a difference.

Like, I'm sorry. Keep going. Right, right. So there is a difference. And part of it, part of it has nothing to do with Brock or Kamala or. or any of the other things that we're talking about. Part of it has to do with almost America's inability to reconcile the fact that black Americans here

that are descendants of slavery are owed a special debt. Like a special debt. Like there's a special debt there that's owed to them, right? And there's a special debt emotionally. There's a special debt financially. there's a special debt that's owed to them. And part of America's inability to understand that has to do with what it is and I'm talking about.

It's the only reason why I feel the need to make the distinction. In the past, I never really did. But because it seems as if America doesn't have any fucking clue on how to reconcile how specifically they wronged this group of people. Blackness is all-encompassing. Blackness goes from continent to continent to island to island to everywhere.

Blackness is all-encompassing. However, there is a special brand of American blackness from a special struggle that has emanated from this that you get thrown into if you come here, but that you're not necessarily always in lockstep with. I just, I feel like we might have gone far off the path of what you originally said, because I'm trying to understand. Actually, I feel like we were right all. Well, my issue was that Kamala is being accused of,

it's not necessarily being black enough, which is what you originally said. My issue was that people are trying to discredit her stance of being, no, she's technically African American, and I understand that based on her father coming from Jamaica and her mother from India. But discrediting her black experience is what I, like, I don't, has she identified herself as African-American?

because I'm not aware of that. She identifies herself as black. And they're taking that and they're running with that as if that's not the case because of her heritage. And I don't think that that's, that that is fair to do. Couldn't give less of a shit about that. What I know is that as a sister.

I have to be honest with you, that is a sister. I agree. Who went to Howard, who pledged AKA. How many times have you heard that? How many times have you heard that since she's been announced? They keep letting us know she went to HBCU

and she's part of a blacker. But I tell you why that matters, though. That matters, and this is going to sound so stupid. And maybe I've sounded stupid all podcasts, who knows? But you know what that? You know what matters about that? And this is going to sound, this is really dumb. That matters to me because in a clinch, in her life, she chose to be black.

Now, understand me, like, I will, listen. So us folks that don't go to HBCUs? No, I'm not saying that. See, that's what I know she's going to say. But what I'm saying is that no matter what else the world thought about Kamala Harris, right, to your point earlier, no matter what else, even the niggas like me who might look at it and go, man, she don't come from no Alabama slave. You know what I'm saying? No matter what else, she knows who she is. Yes, she does.

And she chose her cultural identity a long time away. Not that she had a choice. She's a black lady. Not that she had a choice. But what I'm saying is that she never. She wasn't out there trying to do the whole different thing. She didn't go to UT and then try to pledge Delta just on the side to kind of... On the side!

Do I need to give you the five-point principles of Delta's sick? If they're a sorority incorporated? Let me ask you a question, though. Let me ask you a question, though. How does it feel as a Delta? That's what really stings, that they keep saying... How does it feel as a Delta? The A.K.A. has beat you to the White House.

Well, it stinks. I'm not going to lie. Of course. And she was... And she's not even honorary. She actually pledged. She plays... She plays...

She plays. And that's an alpha chapter. You know what I mean? So that's the first chapter. And it hurts because I'm watching, I'm watching stuff on TV. Cory, Senator Cory Booker is like, she's an A.K.A. And I'm like, Cornell West. She's an A.k.A.

She's a AKA. That matters. That matters, man. Deltsignath a sorority Incorporated. What do they say? What do they say? Your eternal ivies? Is that what they say? They do not say that.

And you don't know nothing about that. So you don't. Do not speak of that. Oh, straight up, I just pissed off every Delta. Deltas, I love you. You did. Deltas, I love y'all. I don't even want to get into all of that different family business.

That's why you were shocked when I said that I was in Delta. What? Delta's y'all my favorite. The Delta's back of Southern, though. They know they were my favorites. Now, it's true. They knew that deltas knew they were my favorites. But look, just so I'm telling this,

I am making sure that everybody knows the attacks on Kamala Harris's blackness or on Barack Obama's blackness or are complete and utter bullshit. They are. However, Van believes in being thorough about what he is and who he is and the specificity of his experience. That's a sister, that's a brother.

By the way, you know what? Everybody from the diaspora, y'all brothers and sisters, even if y'all don't want to fuck with us, the diaspora, whoever that doesn't want to fuck with us. Because sometimes they know. I know.

I know. I know. I know. We all run it. I tell you what. We're all running down the fucking, you know, street with a TV. And nobody's going to stop to ask you who your motherfucking grandfather is. Black male.

Exactly. Exactly. All right. Don't discriminate against Kamala Harris. I'm pleased with the pick. We just have to give you the whole look at it in every way that we feel. I'm very pleased. This episode is brought to you by.

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trust Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need weather tech floor liners in the summer, unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner. Or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. Now, you went to UT. We talked about this. Did you try to go to Yale? Did you apply to Yale?

I did not apply to Yale. As close as I got to Yale was NYU. NYU. Oh, okay. So you applied to NYU? I did. And I got in. Oh, my nigga. Shout out to the Cosby kids. Shout out to the Cosby kids out here doing their motherfucking thug dizzle. Do you know anybody in New York? Did you get a scholarship? You're not going there. And they were like, pick again. I applied to four schools, NYU. Howard, Spellman, I know you're shocked, and Texas.

That was it. And they only let you go to Texas? No, I told you, my boyfriend at the time went to Howard. They were like, nope. My sister went to Spellman. I didn't want to be known as her little sister for another four years. That's the best decision your dad made not letting you go to Howard then if your boyfriend was there. My boyfriend at the time went to Howard.

You'd be doing a totally different podcast right now. What'd you'd be like, they'd be like raising Alicia. how we raise the 20-year-old kids. You know what I'm saying? You'd be like different as a single mom. You'd be doing a single mom podcast. Stop. Stop.

Stop. Oh, shout out to single mom podcast, by the way. Shout out to Good Mom's Bad Choices. That is a great podcast. Erica and Mina, two single moms. Talk about being single. They smoke weed and all of that stuff like that. So Mama got to have a life too.

Shout out to single moms. What's it called again? It is called. Good moms, bad choices. So all the single moms out there, you want to listen to single mom, but it's good podcast. Now, the reason why I ask you about,

if you tried to go to Yale, is because Yale is under fire for discriminating against white people. Boom. I know I tricked y'all. Y'all thought that I was going to say, Yale is discriminating against black people. But no, according to a justice department investigation,

Yale University, Yale, is discriminating against Asian American and white applicants in violation of federal civil rights laws. Yale, of course, has denied the allegations. Yale said, hey, this is meritless and hasty. And we have never stopped a Brock or Becky or Barbara from coming to our school. We don't know what y'all are talking about. No, I didn't say that last part. I said it. But yeah, so the findings, of course, this is Trump's.

Right. This is one of his initiatives. This is one of his initiatives. Trump, look, look, Trump is Trump. Shout out to the Trump administration. The Trump administration is aimed at rooting out discrimination in the college application process. So they are going, they're making sure that enough white people get in the Yale. The Justice Department have previously filed court papers,

siding with Asian American groups who have levies. similar accusations against Harvard University. I remember the case against Harvard that a couple years ago, but the two-year investigation concluded that Yale rejects the scores of Asian Americans and white applicants each year based on their race

whom it otherwise would admit. There was a complaint in 2016 against Yale, Brown, and Dartmouth, three members of the Ivy League, and they are now taking action. Last thing I'll say is an assistant attorney general Eric Dryband. who heads the Department Civil Rights Division said Yale's race discrimination imposes undue and unlawful penalties on racially disfavored applicants, including in particular, Asian American and white applicants.

Wow. So, I don't know what the percentage breakdown is of students, but based on this article, I'm expecting Yale to be an HBCU. Well, let's look at it. let's look at the percentage breakdown of students that go to Yale. Okay. Let's see what it is. First of all, before I do it, I want you to guess what it is. I want you to guess what the breakdown is.

For blacks. Don't just for the breakdown of students that go to Yale. Okay. I'm going to guess a percentage of 87% white. Now that means I got to do the math. 7% black, 6% others. Oh, oh. Am I close?

You were wrong. You were wrong. Yale. Yale is 46.2% white. No. Yale is 46.2% white. Okay, this is, I basically just Googled this and then got a graph off of. I'll take it.

I'll take it. I'll take it. I'll take it. Yale is 46.2% white, 17.3% Asian, 12.2% Hispanic or Latino.

10% non-resident alien, which I don't even know what that means. 6% black and 6% ethnicity unknown. So 6% of the people at Yale are just fucking translucent. You look at,

right through you don't even know you know what they are. They don't want to check. They don't want to check the box. They don't want check the box. Okay. Right. So, wow. So they're known to be discriminating against whites

and Asians. Yet that's the biggest population on campus. Right. So basically what the Justice Department is saying is that they're not going to stop till Yale is fucking 70% white. They're like, Yale is being underrepresented.

And by the way, look. I haven't had a chance to view I haven't had a chance to view this study in depth they haven't released anything in depth just kind of or view this case in depth they just kind of released the broad strokes of it but I don't know whether it's true or not I would highly doubt it

you know what I would highly They're like we said what we said we did what we did They're not even fighting against it And it should be known that Harvard won their case Yeah of course Harvard. Harvard won their case before Look I think things like this and even studies like this are more so about dog whistling to people that America is unfair to white people than they are actually trying to get to the heart of whether or not there are any discriminatory practices.

Absolutely. Look at the administration that's putting this at the forefront of their administration. It's one of their biggest initiatives. This isn't the first time that they've done this. You already mentioned Harvard. It is what it is. This is Trump. But let me tell you where the Trump administration fucked up, though.

Go ahead. Because I tell you something. me and my G's didn't know we could get in the yell. Well, I was what I was about to say. We didn't know. Guess what? Guess who's going to Yale next fall? Online.

You're not. Little Bob. You're not. T.T. NM. Motherfucking Steve and Tony. My nigga, Reg. Okay. Trey.

Shout out to Leonard Verdua the third. He's going. Walter Gino McLaughlin, the whole crew. None of y'all are going. We're going to yell. Do I not need to remind you that it was 6%? It's still 6%. But there's only reason why it's 6%

because we don't know that we could go. Did I apply to Yale? No, why would I apply to Yale? Didn't apply to Yale. We didn't know we could go. But now, Yale is like a fucking turnstile for chocolate. Wait until they win their case. And then apply.

No, I'm applying now. Me and the whole crew. My nephew, I can't even get one of my little nephews to go to class. But you know where he's going? from skipping school to Yale. We're going to Yale, Rach. I would love for you to go to Yale. Go to Yale.

Give us, I mean, I'm telling you from this article, I thought it was an HBCU. I'm shocked. The percentage is only six. Let everybody know what's up now. You too can go to Yale if you apply. Yo, if you black right here, don't matter what kind of black,

traditional. Put an aster's right. If you have, if your skin is darker than a Kardashian black fishing, then like if your skin is, your skin is darker than a South Florida suburban mom who spent too much time in a tanning machine. Are we going to Yale? That's what we're doing.

What a bunch of ridiculous bullshit, man. It's really, really. We will keep you updated on the developments of this story. Certainly will. It's fascinating. I was fascinated. I was fascinated by it. By the way, I bet there's going to be a lot of thought warriors out there

that are going to be like, yo, man, how come you only care about discrimination when it involves black people? It's not that. I don't believe this discrimination. Well, it's not. You just read the numbers. You're saying were you discriminating against your biggest school's population? That doesn't even make any sense.

Oh, it's that time. What time? It's time for the bag. What bag? It's time to get that back. And it's time to get that mailbag. Oh, yeah. By the way, the mailback went so well thought words last week that the mailbag is coming back every single week.

Every week. But it might be slower and slower each week. You know what I'm saying? Why? Why would it be slower and slower? Oh, I get it. Definitely didn't get it. Never right.

You got a little jockey joke. rage. You didn't get it. I'm fucking with it. All right. So, I'm going to do that one last. So I'm going to do,

this is from, I didn't read them. So these are, this is fresh for me. Okay. So this is from Stephanie Kalina on Facebook.

It says, Hello. Hello. I'm curious. How do you respond to someone who says they always have the right to their opinion?

Their opinions are always racist. sexes, homophobic, and so on. I know someone who says they're not racist, they just have different opinions. They say that they're not racist, but their opinions happen to always be racist. So what's the question?

How do you respond to them? Somebody who says they're not racist. I mean, listen, anytime you're discriminating again, anytime what you say that comes out of your mouth discriminates against a particular race, it is racist. You can,

you can mask it under titling it as an opinion, a judgment, or whatever, but if it pertains to race and it discriminates against a particular race, because they are a certain race, it's racist. That's it. That's what it is. Yeah, look, we went into a lot of questions like this because, and I feel like the soul of white people, I'm going to assume that Stephanie here is white, the soul of white people is in a knot over stuff like this. I get it. You guys have some racist friends.

I have some friends that are homophobic. They want to admit it. I have some friends that are homophobic. You know how I deal with this? Oh, yeah, they're definitely homophobic. I have some of my boys, this is guys that I grew up with. And, you know, they're definitely homophobic, right? Yeah.

Definitely homophobic. Do you know how I deal with it? I look at them squarely in the eyes and I said, guess what? You're homophobic. It's disgusting. and you're disgusting, and my opinion of you, lessons every time I hear this drivel.

And friendship is one thing. But professionally promoting any of the stuff that you do or getting behind you is impossible for me because you are bad. I'm not perfect at all, but I'm trying to be better. You're homophobic. It's not an opinion. It is your opinion, but your opinion.

opinion is homophobic. It's right in your face. Right in your face. Especially if they're a friend, if they're a friend, they should be open to having this conversation with you. But don't fucking... But they don't acknowledge it. They don't acknowledge it. They don't see it. It's like, no, it's not. It's not racist. It's just my opinion. Well, to me, I mean, look, a lot of things could be your opinion. Exactly. Yeah, you know what I mean? So, I mean, look, the thing is, it's all about your values. And you have a set of core values that you stand on. And when you have these values, it doesn't matter who

you're around, you can't let people, you know, cut them in half. And so if your friends are racist, continue to tell them to their face at their races. And don't just do it when it's just you two. The best thing to do is get it when you're around some people. And why don't you tell everybody right now what you think of Black Lives Matter since we're all sitting around talking? Tell everybody right now. Defend your opinion. You know, like, you know, make them learn.

But at the same time, say fuck people too. Sometimes you got to say fuck people. But you should call them out, right? and tell them exactly why what they're doing is racist and not an opinion. It's both, actually. It's a racist opinion. That's what it is. Oh, boom.

This is a good one. I don't know about this. From Olivia Andrews on Facebook, how do you deal with the idea of not being black enough or being too black? If only thought warriors could see the way Van just looked at me and paused in reading this question. How do I deal with being not black enough or too black? Is that the question? How do you deal with the idea of being not black enough or being too black?

Okay. I'm trying to think of how to answer this question. Because if you're asking me this question now, I don't deal with it. I feel like when I was younger, I, and this will be a story for another podcast, but I was always teased for not being black enough. Some called me a Cosby kid. And at the time, no, nobody ever called me that. But at the time, I didn't know how to embrace it.

I was very uncomfortable because I was told I was too white and I was called White Girl. My people I did summer track with or in the neighborhood that I lived in. But then in other circles, I was too black. I was very black. And so I was like in an in-between stage and I was stuck. And I like didn't know how to be

because neither crowd had accepted me. And back then it would bother me. Now, I would say is I don't deal with it. Because at the end of the day, I know exactly who I am, and I know what I stand for and I represent. I am black. And I don't let anybody tell me how black I am or judge me on my blackness, and you should neither.

Don't, like, there is no meter. Like, nobody's going to take out a meter and scan you and decide if you're black enough based on who you hang out with, what you wear, how you talk, the music you listen to, or what your politics are. That doesn't define your blackness. You are black because of your heritage. Maybe not your culture, but your heritage and where you come from.

And do not let other people, because I did that for a long time. I let other people tell me what was black rather than realizing I'm black, period, no matter how you define that. And I think that that's something important. And I think it's sad because a lot of people, I know a lot of black people who struggle with that. You let people tell you what is black. And that's not right.

you were black. There's no question. I step outside my apartment right now. I am identified as black. They don't know how I talk, what I listened to, where I was raised, any of that. They just know me as black. But I'm not black just because of how I look or, well, I am black as I look. But I mean, I'm not just black by the way that people define me. Fantastic answer. Rividing. Very, very well said. Drake has a lyric where Drake goes. I used to be teased for black. Now I'm here and I'm not black. enough because I'm not acting tough or making stories up about where I'm actually from. And that actually, when he, you know, that, that hit me when he said that. It hit me because I was in school and I was in the gifted program and a lot of my classmates were white. But then in Gardier, when you come back, everybody there is black, right? So a lot of times for me, I'm having two completely arthurings.

different arguments in school and at home that are exactly the same. You know, I'll never be white enough for the white kids, and I didn't want to be. My mom would have hated that, right? But at the same time, the fact that these kids didn't see me in some of their classes and some of the stuff like that, blah, blah, blah, I was always being like, just trying to talk like a white boy, you're trying to do this, you're trying to do that, the whole nine. After a while, I took pleasure in being not all things. to all people, but being nothing to nobody. I love that. I took pleasure in the fact that my experience was unique,

that I was understanding two different parts of Baton Rouge and two different parts of my community, and that this was van, and that I was going to have to get comfortable with this guy, right? You're going to go places where you're going to go, you're still going to go places where, I mean, And remember now, blackness in and of itself is always something that as black people, we should be educating ourselves on. There's a historical, a cultural, a political component to what blackness means in America.

And accessing that, you can fall all into it or you can draw along the lines of it. But it's something that this skin tone and this melanin is going to make you reconcile whether you want to or not. So for me personally, I'm very proud of all the achievements and all the sacrifices and all of the, I guess, the ways that my people have overcome in this country. And that imbues me with a sense of purpose.

So that, my love and cultural respect and patience and trust for my people, that's what I draw my blackness from. But I have to call black people out because it is something within our community that we do a lot. Like, we constantly question how black somebody is when there really is no, no spectrum to do it in. There's no, there's no meter to do it. I mean, yeah, like you can attempt it, but it's not fair. And we constantly do it. We're all guilty. I've been guilty of doing it at times to people. And so I just think that it's something that we need to check ourselves with and stop and stop doing. We get enough from everybody who's not black. We don't need to be doing this

to ourselves. That's why I said, like, for me, everybody black, but we can also address the differences that are inside of our experiences as blackness. Blackness is, there's a diaspora of blackness. This is true. Everybody ain't the same, but everybody's black. All right. Good question there. Now, this is from Stephen Scott on Twitter. I'm from Texas and went to college in Oklahoma. Lots of friends use people like Candice Owens and the Hajj twins to speak against Black Lives Matter, systemic racism, and et cetera. What's the best way to combat voices like these two to white people who use them? I can't talk about Candace.

Why? No, I mean, it's just like, I don't. But she's what you just said, we don't judge people's blackness. I'm not judging her blackness, right? She's ignorant. I'm not judging her blackness. You know what? Listen, I feel a lot of angst in these questions today.

I'll tell you guys something. No, no, seriously, I will. I'll tell you guys something. something. Combat them. There was a thing that Noah had, right? Remember what Noah had? The ark. Remember the ark? Yeah. Okay. Here was the thing about the ark. There was a flood coming. God told Noah, go get the animals two by two, which is still pretty interesting in how Noah was able to get all the insects and all whatever, but it's God. God said, do it. So the insects probably came. A lot of

species of animal, though. Had to be a big ass arc. Just saying. But so, so Noah gets all the animals. Animals come on. God tells Noah, preach that the flood is coming. And tell everybody to come get on the art. Noah's like, got you. Flood coming.

Everybody get on the art. Right? Guess what some people told Noah. He was stupid. You're crazy. Yeah. You're like, the ark is dumb.

All of that stuff. Guess what Noah? Yeah, he was, they said this. They guys said this. Guess what Noah had to do? Let them drown. All right? Let them drown.

Look, get your shit off. Don't spend all your time up here arguing with these dumbass people. Fuck Candace Owens. Fuck the harsh twins. Fuck all of them. They are entitled to their opinions. But I don't fuck with their opinions like that. So, you know, not even to be that angry with them.

I don't even want to say fuck them people. What I want to say is I couldn't care. less about what it is that they're saying right now. I couldn't care less about it. It's just more so they're so extreme that you're never going to get through to somebody who's pushing forward that rhetoric.

They don't want to grow. They don't want to evolve. They don't want to hear you. So that's why Van's like, just let them drown. Like, it is what it is with them. Man, let them drown. You guys, I'm always up for a good conversation or a good back and forth. I told you guys that.

But at a certain point, after someone who has shown you who they are and what they believe, please believe these people. Please. All right. God damn it. Let me all fired up some goddamn hodge twins. From Kimmy Crawford on Facebook. Van, how often are celebs actually paparazzi? Oh.

Like, I know that guys hiding in the bushes isn't happening as awesome as we've been made to think it is. Yeah, it is. Specifically, with the pics of Kim K. crying last week in the conya with con yeah with con yeah those legit i know the cardassian clan has a close relationship with tmz so many people said those felt like an overstep

but like are those types of photos actually paparazzi picks or are they staged how can we tell the difference love the show you two imagine together we love you as well Kimri so much so that we're going to send you a higher learning t-shirt away

we don't have those yet now um this is a good question. Is it is, have you ever hit in a bush? No.

Okay. I've hit though. Okay. But I'm not, I haven't, I haven't hid like in a bush, like, trying to like, I have been around a corner, though, where I knew a celebrity was going to walk down the corner because sometimes if you want a shot and they see you coming, they'll just turn around way up the block. Yeah.

But I have been in the situations where I'm like, I, I don't, I want to make sure that this person that's going to their car. But remember with me, you guys say what you want about TMZ, if I put my camera on a celebrity and they say, I'm not talking, calm down, have a great day. So you have like the camera with the show where you're like looking and talking and like, oh, wow. Yeah, like, camp down, have a nice day. I'm like, I did it for, I think, two or three years for TMZ.

But so if you say you don't want to talk to me, we're done. We're out. We're not going to follow you all away to your car. We explicitly, we. They. I was like, they definitely follow. you, I have definitely been harassed. By TMZ?

Yes. But like somebody following you with a camera? When I was announced, when I was, had finished the Bachelorette and I had come back from Spain and I like did a thing in New York. When I landed in L.A., there was a cameraman at the gate. He chased us down the escalators out the door into our car, like chase us completely. I'm standing there waiting. Were you talking to him?

No. Wasn't supposed to do that. I think I just laughed. Wasn't supposed to do that. If he, now look, if I engage you in a conversation and you answer me back, well,

I'm going to walk with you till I get what I walked. But I didn't. But see, but see if I say, but see if you're a camera, if, if I pulled a camera on you and you go, I don't want to talk,

it's over. I mean, I've, I don't know. If you say, if you say, if you say, if you say,

if you say, if you say, and that's what it's supposed to be. You. That's how it's supposed to be. Well, I'll tell you, I'll give you another example. Poor Copper was a victim of it very recently. I was at a gas station and a TMZ tour bus came by.

That's different. The girl goes, you look familiar and I said nothing. And I went in to pay for my gas. I came out. She had parked the tour bus a block away and was standing there with the camera and was like, I know who you are in my car. Copper's face. The bus got you.

So what? The bus got you. So that's different. You said I mean about harassing? But I tell you what, I tell you that's different about that. So I was a tour guide as well. I was a TNC tour guy. Oh, I bet you were fun.

Oh, it was so much fun. That was the most fun job I've ever had. I was a TMZ tour guy. So on the TMZ tour, it's really not about me, and it's really not about that. It's about the people on the bus. So on a TMZ tour, I remember specifically, we stopped in Beverly Hills, not Beverly Hills.

We stopped on sunset. That's where I was. We stopped on sunset, we stopped on sunset, right? We're on sunset. We stopped right by a whiskey and go-go. And a woman rolls her window down and goes, hey, the car in front of you guys, that's David Beckham. And I was like, are you serious? And she was like, yeah.

I was like, and this was off the tour route. I look at my bus. I go, y'all want to see if it's David Beckham? And they go, yeah, we want to see. I mean, that's a dream for them. So I look at my driver and I go, don't speed. But let's just see if possibly we could get next to that Black Range Rover right there. We got next to the Range Rover, and it was, in fact, David Beckham.

And he's smiling, right? David Beckham is smiling. And I'm like, Dave, give him one wave. They're going to go crazy. And he waved. And the bus lost his fucking mind. on the bus, I was a straight cut up. On the bus, it was like, we saw LeBron James on Rodale one time,

and we followed LeBron all the way down in Rodale. We drove with him. And I kept trying to get him to wave, but he wouldn't wave. I was saying, I was saying like, yo, who's the best baseball player of all time? And they would go, LeBron James. I go, who's the most handsome man of all time? They go LeBron James. I'm like, who's the tallest?

Who's the prettiest? Who's the best? Who does his tax is the best? LeBron James. And he was smiling, but he wouldn't acknowledge. the bus. So on the bus, I'll have some fun with the street. I gave the woman. She was like, please come on the bus. With, with, with, I brought copper on the bus. I came in and I was like, y'all.

Oh, what? You got on the bus. So you can't even like. Well, because she harassed me so much. And then she was like, can you please come on the bus? Because she was a block away from them. And I was like, for you, I will. And I went on the bus. And I was like, y'all need to tip her. She's the hardest working woman at TMZ. Like, give her the biggest tip ever. I just appreciated her hustle but I was harassed is my point So answer this person's question Okay okay to the point of the question about the bushes

Okay so here's the thing Number one I think that that that shot with Kim and Kanye Was 1,000% set up a million percent set up I didn't even see one million percent She's crying he's talking to her One million percent set up One 1,000 million a billion percent set up Number two I would so the way things

work is this. There are about four or five spots in LA where if you, if you're a celebrity and you walk out there, you will get shot by paparazzi cameras. If you're on Beffert Drive in Beverly Hills, you are going to get shot by paparazzi cameras. If you are leaving Equinox off sunset, there's going to be a camera guy here. If you're at Craigs or Catch or outside of any club, there will be TMZ camera guys there, right? Here's the thing. Celebrities know these things. They don't think that they're going to walk into Craigs and not get shot by paparazzi cameras. part of the reason why Craigs is as famous as it is, is because of that. When Entourage was out and Earth Cafe over on Melrose, they were sitting out there eating outside.

That became a spot where other celebrities would want to go eat because it was a famous establishment and stuff like that. So people know they're going to get shot by paparazzi. The thing is, a lot of these people, a lot of celebrities, they want these shots. They want to address things that are going on. a picture or a video, sometimes a video of just two people together. Like, even if you just got video, like, of Kanye West and Kim Kardashian walking together, I wouldn't even, if I saw Kim and Kanye right after all that stuff was going on, I might not even ask them a question.

I might just throw a one off, but I might just shoot the video. You know what I'm saying? Give me five, six seconds, boom. That video means that they're together or whatever like that. But a lot of times, a lot of times people sell shots up. they know what they're doing, or they don't even need to set shots up because their publicists give a rundown

of where all the events are taking place. So if we know where the events are taking place, then we know who's going to be there. And then if we know who's going, they know who's going to be there. And if they know who's going to be there, they know who to shoot. Y'all, Hollywood is so fake.

That's all you need to take for that. It's so fake. I disagree. I think that's really part of the game. It might be part of it. But that doesn't mean it's real. Is the NBA fake because people flop? Flopping is fake?

That's not all. Okay. I'm saying it's a part of the game. It's a fake thing that's a part of the game. The NBA, like in the game, you flop. Well, it's a great point. I have nothing to say. It's a great point.

Yeah, man. And I'm upset. And I'm upset because I was about to say someone. I was like, no, that actually plays into his point. Point. All right. That is the end of Mailback Fridays. That's it.

The takeaway from Mailback Friday today is don't let these people drive y'all crazy. Y'all ask them us a lot of questions about how to talk to races. Don't let these people drive y'all fucking crazy. Don't let them drive you crazy. Let them drown. All right. Unispected ally of the week. Oh, yes, I have one.

Ooh. Oh, special. Let me pull it up. And shout out to my good friend, David, who is always. posting things where I usually steal my ally, unexpected ally of the week from. Okay. All right.

This week's unexpected ally of the week for me is Rudy... Sorry. I don't know why I'm laughing. Rudy Giuliani's daughter. Oh, shit. I thought she was about to say Rudy Giuliani. I was about to say.

And I think that's why I paused because I was like, he's probably like, what is she going to say? Okay. Rudy Giuliani's daughter. Caroline Rose Giuliani. She said, and I quote, I support Biden Harris.

Let's start to turn this disaster around. It's a matter of life and death at this point. Remove Trump, exclamation point. That is a direct quote from the daughter of Rudy Giuliani, Trump's attorney. And yeah, unexpected ally of the week right there. And it's with a picture of her and Kamala together. Yo, I love that.

I expect the ally of the week. You know why? Because I love it when somebody uses their allyship to stick it to somebody else in their own family. Yes, mine comes from a sport that doesn't get a lot of shine. A lot of people play it. Cornhole. Cornhole is a sport.

The guys Derek King, who won both the pro doubles and the co-ed mixed doubles and did so while wearing a Black Lives Matter match. Yes. So Derek King, congratulations on your championship in Cornhole. You're the best cornhole around Derek King. But also, congratulations for being an ally, an unexpected ally, because it's a very conservative white sport cornhole. But Derek King is representing for us.

So that is a robust episode of higher learning. We got into the weeds there. It's a lot, Rach. Talked about a lot of stuff. Thank you guys for your questions. Those are some good questions. It sounds like you guys are going through a lot. We try to help out the way that we can.

And any way we can be there for you. You know, we are a community. We are all thought warriors. So keep it up. We love this edition, this new addition to the show. All y'all friends is racist. All right. I'm Van Lathen.

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