Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Kamala’s “I Told You So” and a Student's Self-Defense Claim in a Track Meet Stabbing

Episode Date: April 8, 2025

Van and Rachel react to a recent tweet of Van’s (:18) before discussing Kamala Harris’s recent “I told you so” comments (24:23) and a stabbing at a Texas track meet that left one student dead and another claiming self-defense (49:47). Then, a message to rappers regarding tariffs (1:17:09) and a celebration of Duke’s NCAA tournament loss (1:26:04). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, thought lawyers. How Learning is on. It is Iban Lansing, Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. Rachel, I want to read you a tweet. And you tell me whether or not this tweet is too far now. Too far? Too far, yes.

Okay. So there is a video of Sierra that has gone viral, and it's Sierra. She's bouncing around. She looks so, you know, fun and fancy-free. But here's the thing. Sierra has got the baby benefit body. Okay? It happens.

I'm from the South. And so I've seen slim thick turn into God damn so many times after you have a baby. You know, my daddy, God rest of the soul, used to look at a woman and go, yeah, that's a beautiful woman, but she's a baby away from being a bad motherfucker. Because you could tell, because the baby gives you this womanliness and this, and, you know, it happens all the time. So Sierra, in this video, I could tell that she looks great. She's looking as good as she's ever looked to me, to me, right? And so I tweeted the following, Russell Wilson must play on. We need at least three years of Sierra looking like this.

And if he's at home, he will ruin it for us with his greedy loins. Because he likes to impregnate her, and then she'll be busy taking care of herself being a mama and not posting the stuff with her new goddamn body. This is a compliment to her and me saying that Russell should play football rather than retire, because if he's at home, I know that she's just going to get pregnant again, and I can see why. I think people have a problem with this, and do you think it's

not good? Is my question, to you? So people are mad at you for writing this tweet? They're not mad they're saying, hey, that's a married woman. I'll send the video to you. I'm looking at the video right now. Okay. So...

She looks fantastic. She looks amazing, right? But she's also... She's bouncing around and what is that? That's a bathing suit of some sort or like a top and a bikini bottom. And what was she posting? It doesn't matter what she's posting for. Okay. Are you wrong?

I don't know if wrong is the word. Okay. Keep it real. But it's definitely none of your business. How about that? It's not a whose business? Yours. What's none of my business?

So, you know, it is your business that Sierra put this video out here. and obviously for people to see, you know, she looks happy, she's filling herself, you can tell she feels beautiful, there's a lot of joy going on in this video. Yeah, she looks fantastic. But what I really like about it is she looks happy and free. Like, if this, you could just write joy under this and I'd be like, I get it. So, yeah, you're free to comment on, you know, obviously she's putting it out here what she looks like, you know, how she looks like she's feeling, all of that. But as far as the marriage and you telling Russell what he should and shouldn't do, none of your business, right? And it's the last line I think that people might have a bit of an

issue with, you know, you talking, not just you talking about her as a married woman, you also being in your own partnership. And if, and I quote, and if he's home, he will ruin it for us. What will he ruin? What thing? What exactly is he ruining. Is it, can I answer the question? Go ahead. You want me to answer the question? Oh, okay. That's the energy? Great. We're keeping that all podcasts. Let's go. What I'm saying is, what I'm sort of, I like to have conversations and challenge me, challenge me. But what he's, because there's an answer to this. Okay.

What he's ruining is if she's pregnant, we don't get sexy Sierra pictures anymore. So that's, maybe that's where people are getting a little offended. You say he will ruin it for us. Sexy Sierra pictures, yes, will be ruined because there won't be any. There'll be, oh, she's glowing beautiful maternal Sierra pictures, which is great. But sexy Sierra pictures will be ruined. And I don't think that there's anything wrong with saying, hey, we like looking at sexy Sierra pictures. Is that okay?

Well, I think it's the implication that she's only sexy like this. Maybe that. I, for arguments, for arguments sake, I'm doing this. I don't really think it's that big of a deal, but for, um, you're implying that she is only sexy in this form. How am I explaining that? Because you said, if she's pregnant, then he ruins it for us as if, and you said, you want sexy Sierra as if, so, so it follows, sexy Sierra is this and not when she's

this. Okay. So I'll say this right. now. I don't objectify, which is what's happening here, right? I don't objectify and look for the sex appeal in pregnant ladies. There is a whole genre for that. I've never been into it. I've seen it and I've clicked past it. Not for me. To me, pregnant lady means you get the world at your fingertips for nine months. Get it easy. We take it easy. We make sure you make you have it easy and all of that stuff.

No objectification for pregnant lady. No objectification. All right. Once again, there's a whole genre for that to each their own. So what also all I'm saying is when I say like this, I mean not pregnant because I don't objectify the pregnant one. You don't, right? So that's how you view sexiness, right? There are limitations, I guess, to sexiness because you,

not saying that you're not saying pregnant women are beautiful, you just wouldn't use the word sexy to define it. I've never been in this situation before. Like I've never been a pregnant woman showing off my body and things like that. But when I do hear women talk, my friends that have been pregnant or currently are pregnant, they start to feel a certain way, some of them, about themselves. Like they don't feel as sexy. They don't feel as beautiful. And so I could see some. So, I could see some. somebody who might be pregnant right now or, you know, is post-pregnancy or, you know, about to become pregnant or has been pregnant, whatever the situation is, might take offense to what you're saying as if maybe they, as if they can't also be sexy as well. I'm just saying I could see it. Okay. Pregnant women are beautiful. Like, you see a pregnant woman and you're like, oh, my God, beautiful. everything about it, the skin changes, the experience of the woman, they're beautiful. Is it okay if pregnant women aren't sexy?

Like, they should be sexy to the people that they're, it's very, but like pregnant women, beautiful, beautiful. I love seeing a woman pregnant, particularly a woman that is like, you know, showing and like happy, and, you know, all that. It's amazing to see. But is it okay to say that, like, pregnant women, it's not sexy, you don't go, ooh, damn, she has seven months. That's crazy.

That's busing. Damn, she looked like she and her third trimester. That'd do it for me. Oh, my gosh. Is that what comes when you say sexy? See, we're, this is where it's like. Sexy is something that inspires because I want to know the level of, of righteousness that has it is.

When you say something is sexy, to me, that inspires, oh my God, it's sexy. It's desirable. Like, when I see Sierra jumping around in that picture, I think, by the way, I think that she wants to be seen as sexy, which is why this picture is out. Right.

So when I see Sierra jumping around in that picture, I go, oh, my God, she is sexy. She looks amazing, right? But I don't look at a woman that's like, She's pregnant and then I go, damn, she looked good. She's about to pop any minute, man. Like, it is, like, that's sexy. That's crazy.

Like, is that, that's wrong, though. I mean, that's, I mean, I see women when they're pregnant take these very sexy baby photos, right? Right. They're in lingerie, you know, like they have their bellies out. They're naked. You know, they're covering up their breasts. and that is a form of sexiness to me. They are, now I think, I think,

and this is where it comes a man's version maybe versus a woman's firm. Sure. When I say sexy, I'm like, oh my gosh, it's so sexy. I'm not thinking of like, oh, that's like, I want to hit it. You know, like that's how, I guess what you attach, your connotation of a sexiness. Like when you think sexy, that's what you would attach to it.

But when I see a woman who's, you know, doing the jeans with no top and, her belly. She wants to be seen as, that's sexy. You know, I'm pregnant and I'm sexy. I, and so I think that this tweet takes that away from her, but I think there's a different version. I don't think either one's wrong. I think there's a different version of how women view would deem sexiness versus a man. I don't think she's doing it because she wants people to say like, oh, she's desirable. I can't wait to get at that. It's how she feels. You know, women, they want to feel like they still have it. And the baby's not, you know, snatching away their beauty or their sex appeal.

They're still very feminine. They're very woman. They're very desirable. And I think that's why a lot of, you see a lot of women do those type of photo shoots when they are pregnant because they want to be seen that way. And I think your tweet can be looked at as it takes that power or that, that away from women. So let me ask you this. Are there, so when you think of a man, are there men that you would describe as sexy. For sure. Okay. Men that you, see, but see that?

You see what you just said? Sexy. But I'm not thinking sex. I know, but at some point you are thinking sex. When you say sexy, because listen, because there's cute and then there's handsome

and then there's sexy. By the way, I'll say something here. The only reason why I'm saying is so, Ian, We were riding in... Even stays taking L's on this podcast. We were riding in the car one time. And Ian's first wife, my sister, forever.

The mother of my niece and nephew. Katrina, Katrina Parker, and they were still dating. There was these two twin capas that were on Southern's campus. And they just were called the twins. Now, this is what happened, Rachel. When Gino pledged CAPA, the crew was a little... We were a little intimidated.

Y'all didn't like it. It's not that we didn't like it, but we were wondering, was Gino going to become a CAPA more than you was fair proof? Fair question. Fair question. Fair question. Most of us just kind of went along with it. But Ian had a war against Kappa for like six months to a year.

So he would see a Kappa and he would just like disa Kappa. And so we in the car one time, all Polly's little car. And Gino dis is the twins. Or Ian this is the twins. And Katrina said, man, the twins sexy. In front of him. And I, of course, embellished my laugh to further insult Ian. And Ian went off.

He didn't go off on her because he's not the kind of guy to, like, scream at the lady. But he was just like, sexy. That mean you want to have sex with him. And then he would do this thing back in the day where he would describe sex in a very, like, graphic way to let you know what you're saying. So you want to open your legs and receive. That sounds like something you was saying. Honestly. Ian's not alone.

Interesting. Interesting, though. But no, you know what? This is interesting because I'm probably toxic on this. Donnie, give me a toxic point. I'm probably toxic on this because I think as a woman's pregnancy, as a time to like leave her alone, like not feel that she's like, It's like a, it's almost like, oh, she's pregnant. She's with child.

Like, treat her in a way that. You want to be delicate. You want to be delicate. Delicate, right? And you don't want to, you don't want to be like, oh, my, I understand that women still want to feel beautiful. But I put beautiful and sexy into different categories. They are. I get that.

Yeah, beautiful. Sexy is like, ooh, here's a little ass for you. That inspires something in men. So I'm like, oh, sexy is something different. I wouldn't say that a pregnant woman. Now, there are plenty of people that think pregnant women are and like them when they're pregnant. And that's a whole genre, like I said before. But I look at that.

I look at it different is what I'm saying. But your point is well taken, though. And maybe this means that just don't object to five women, period, and you won't have this problem. Yeah. That is the point. That is the bottom line for sure. But I respect the fact that you do see women, like a woman that's not yours. but I would, you know, if you were with the woman that was pregnant,

I think you also have to take into a fact that a lot of women when they're pregnant, you know, or so I've been told have been, are very, there's, like, sexuality is heightened. Like, they want it more. You know, for some women, that goes through this. So they want to feel sexy at the same time, too. I think it's more of a feeling of sexy that when you see women do that when they're pregnant. But again, what do I know?

I don't get off this. Is it not okay? So, because I really want people to listen to this conversation and learn something. We've got to learn something from each other. So when is it okay to objectify someone? If you are... When they say it's okay. What'd you say?

When they say it's okay. Okay, so what, what I'm saying is, what then would be, how would they say it's okay? Because no one's going to post a picture and then go, hey, objectify me. But if you post a picture and you are shaking your butt in a bikini, or if you're a guy and you're showing off, you're doing your whole thing, it's a shirtless deal,

or if, like, when is it okay? Because I think that sometimes making people see that you're sexy, I feel like objectification is the point of posting some of this stuff. Okay, let me ask you this. Does objectifying mean you have to be disrespectful? What's this was no but I mean disrespectful would be so Sierra posts this video she obviously is filling herself right she feels happy she feels like she looks good um she's and she wants everybody to see it why else would you post it right so there's a level of her when I say when somebody tells you it's okay she's not saying it but her actions are showing that she's she's showing you her body right she's almost objectifying herself so when I say can you objectify somebody? without being disrespectful, if you're looking at her and you're like,

this person who retweeted this said, Sierra, damn, not disrespectful, right? Sierra, wow, she's beautiful. Sierra, wow, like, your post baby body is amazing. Sierra, wow, like, you know, like, even if they're like, your butt looks great, she's showing us her butt. But if somebody says, objectifies her in a way

that's disrespectful, where it's like, damn, Sierra, I want to, I don't even, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, you know. No, I'm not. doing it. But if they mark Robinson did, you know, with that, then I think it becomes

problematic. Don't be disrespectful in your objectification. Does that make sense? That makes a lot of sense. But once again, though, that's basically just saying don't disrespect. If Sierra does this and you go, I can't wait to bend that. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's disrespectful. Like, but saying,

hey, I really look, I get what you're saying. But like, what I'm saying is, if you say Sierra, damn, because they're like, this is a married woman that you're talking about. Her being married doesn't have anything to do with it. There's a Beyonce commercial that, like for a gene commercial, the gene commercial comes on. The gene commercial is focused on Beyonce's ass.

Beyonce wants us to know that she has a good button and she's okay with it. And her jeans look great in it. She looks great in it and that's okay. So it's okay, in my opinion, to say, hey, Beyonce is sexy. Sierra is sexy. It's okay to say those people are sexy if they are leading with sexuality. Now, it's not okay to disrespect them

and talk about how you want to do them and all of that type of stuff like that, which would never happen. But it's okay, even if you're in a relationship, to like to look at Sierra, to like to look at Beyonce, to like to look at any of these people.

I think that disrespect is disrespect, but objectification is part of the deal when someone is leading with sexes. it exactly when they're telling you it's okay to I'm not you're right no one's going to say hey now it's the time to objectify me but her actions in the these pictures that she's putting out and I was looking for it just now on my phone she when she's in the red outfit she says something about acknowledges Russell kind of like when he lets you be yourself or he lets you do whatever she I couldn't find it but I saw it on some blog quickly and her husband's obviously okay with it I think

that's the other thing. I'm sure she showed pictures to Russell. I'm sure she showed, or if she didn't, I'm sure it's okay. They have an understanding. He doesn't have a problem with it. And I think that's a part of it too. She's putting it out there, but it's okay for her to do it within her relationship. I don't think that that's a problem as well. But yeah, like, I think maybe people overreact when you hear the word objectify, and maybe I even did when you first read the text message, not text messages, your tweet. But I think when somebody puts it out there in their actions, then it's okay. But like, don't cross the line. Tell you something.

Russell Wilson and Sierra are going to be together forever. I'll tell you why I think so. Is that a piece of joint in New Orleans for a pop-up? They walk in. Russell is dressed pretty regularly. Super Bowl weekend. Russell's dressed pretty regularly. He's got, you know, black shirt on.

black pants, probably all very expensive, Balenciaga or something like that. Looks good, but he's dressed regularly. Comes in, says hello to everybody. Very nice man.

Says hello to everybody. Football hands. Doesn't matter how big or small the football player is. When you shake the hand of a football player, you see why they are who they are and you are who you are.

Because they got mitts as hands. Mitz. Hangs, Russell Wilson, he says hello to everyone. You can probably guess who I was with at this pizza pop-up in New Orleans. If I'm meeting celebrities, you can probably guess who I was with. Anthony?

One Mr. Tommy Alter. Oh. Of course. So he comes in, basically all his regular guy steaks. She comes in a little bit later, but not too much later, like maybe like 30 seconds

or a minute later. Maybe I just notice her later. complete superstar aura. She from head to toe is in this red outfit. She's got a couple of people with her. She says hello as well. She actually looked at me and said, it's good to see you. She's very magnanimous, the whole thing.

And he in no way, in no way, was dimming her light or trying to take from her. I've seen that situation before with celebrity couples in Hollywood where the woman is maybe more famous. I don't know that she's necessarily more famous

than Russell Wilson, but I do know if there's a photographer out there is going to be Sierra, Sierra, Sierra, Sierra, right? And the man, you can tell it's uncomfortable with that a little bit. I did not see any of that between them. I saw her with her own gravity,

her own orbit, and I saw somebody that was really, really comfortable and secure in that. Just real song. And it was noticed. That's hard to find. That's hard to find.

And that's really beautiful. It is beautiful if they have it. They, yeah. She came up to you, Van, and said, it's good to see you. She did. And that an L.A. thing? She kept it real. Isn't that an L.A. thing?

It is. Nice to see you again. Nice to see you. No, no. She didn't say again. She just said it's nice to see you. Nice to see you. That's an L.A. thing.

It's a very L.A. thing. But look, the reality is it's as a black man, you know, as somebody, you know, as somebody, who, you know, in this world that's changing, you know, sisters is kind of taking us over, leaving us behind just that acknowledgement, you know, as a black man in a world where we kind of get pushed to the side. By the way, as a straight black man, as a black man who's just, you know, from the South, who doesn't have no upper level degree type of situation with all of these people telling me that my masculinity should be put to the back burner and who I am should be muted. You know what I'm saying? Like, what all of that?

It was just good that somebody acknowledged me and said it was good to see me. Because as a black man, like, I personally think that what's going on with us and the erasure of the masculine man is just something that we don't talk about enough. So it was good to see a woman with traditional values. You know what I'm saying? That made me feel good. It made me feel good because I didn't have a father. Okay, let's move on.

Everybody welcome T.K. Kirkland back to the show. Because that's the energy you're giving right now. That's how y'all niggas sound to me. I can hear y'all cry. I can hear the tears. I can hear the tears. I just want to hug y'all. The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals.

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And I feel like this is a good transition to, like, react to something else that you said. But let's give us some context first. Kamala Harris was speaking at the leading women-defined summit where she had this to say about the state of our country. There is a sense of fear that has been taking hold in our country, and I understand it, but we're saying people stay quiet. We are seeing organizations stay quiet. We are seeing those who are capitulating

to clearly unconstitutional, And these are the things that we are witnessing each day in these last few months in our country. And it understandably creates a great sense of fear. Because, you know, there were many things that we knew would happen. Many things. I'm not here. I told you. So last week, Van was on CNN's news night with Abby Phillip. and he spoke about what Ms. Harris have to say, and this is what you said. I will say this, though, they're about to be mad at me.

I don't like this. Like what? I don't like that. I told you so stuff, man. I don't like it. It's true. It's true. It's definitely true. All of it was predicted.

We need to listen to black women. We need to prioritize black women in leadership, all of that. But when people are struggling and when people are confused, I do not think it strikes the right court to be like I, told you so. And I just don't think that it does. And I think that coming from the left right now, the leadership needs to be stronger about what their messaging is. Not about, I told you so, but I tell you how you're going to be better. I've been getting my goddamn fat ass kicked. Sure. Okay. kicked in my balls, kicked in my butt hole. Uh, because of this. And,

you know, people are calling me out left and right. Rach. Rach, your thoughts. Well, first off, I would like to acknowledge the fact that the clips are back. Can we just have a moment to acknowledge that? We got clips back. We got sound back. We got video back to our podcast. Yeah.

Went two, three weeks without it. It was hell. You're wrong, Van. You're wrong. You're wrong. If Kamala Harris went to this leading women defined summit and got up on that podium and said, I told you all so and walked off, you would be right. It would make sense.

But she spoke at great length about the state of our country. And at one, and at that clip that we just saw, she was about to say, I told you so stopped yourself and was like, I don't want to say I told you so. And she laughs. And the audience laughs with her. And she continues to go on and on and on. You did, my friend.

what the other side does. You took one statement and you harped on it when what she had to say was so much bigger and so much meaningful than that. This was about, she was speaking of black women,

this was about women being powerful, unifying. It was about sisterhood. It was about overcoming fear and having the courage to step out and do more, to not be defeated and exhausted by the things

that are happening in our country to come together. And it was off the hills of what we saw Corey Booker do on the Senate floor, which I feel like is encouraging more people to speak up. I think this, you took this and ran with it. And I think it was unnecessary. I really do.

And I just think, yeah, I think I just kind of said it all there. I'm actually shocked that that's the point that you took. You know, what we see the other side do is take one statement or an expression or an action and they harp on that and make us focus on that rather than focusing on the whole. Right. Rather than focusing on, you know, people have a problem with, and you weren't alone, a lot of people on the right, far right, had a problem with her saying this, which as Avi Phillips said, it is true.

But she went on to say why it was true, not just saying you should have voted for me. And because you didn't, this is what happened, which she could say. And that would be wrong for the people who are being affected by the Trump administration and will continue to be affected, but she didn't. She said, we have to come together and we have to continue to fight. You have to fight on even though I'm not the one in office. You have to fight on even though the policies that I told you would come to fruition are coming to fruition and the people are hurting. She said, keep going. And I think that's the message that we have to focus on. not the fact that she said,

I told you so. Well said. So this is what I would say. Number one, the entire message of the clip is not what I was asked to discuss. It's not what we were discussing on the show. You'll see that tonight as you do the show.

So we weren't asked to discuss it. It's just facts. But you have to bring in context, though. But, well, number one, I hadn't seen the whole thing because it had just been put into the show. I hadn't seen the whole thing. the only thing I can do, I did put into context.

By the way, I'm not disagreeing with what you said, and I'm not anybody who had a problem with what I said. I'll say things and you'll have a problem with them. Like Elon Musk says, I will say things and I won't make mistakes. But I contextualize it by saying this doesn't depower who Kamala Harris is as a black woman or as a black woman leader. It doesn't. But I'm going to tell you that I don't like this type of talk coming from the left. And I'll tell you why.

I think that if we are going to talk about the current state of America, if we're going to talk about voters and talk to people, being punitive about it. And by the way, this is a lesson I've learned here on this podcast. If you remember, when we started here, when we talked about the deportations or when we talked about any of that stuff, what would I say? I would laugh.

I talk about particularly with the Latino community. I would laugh and I would say, hey, you voted for this. and now it's coming home to roost, and that's fair. That's the way that it goes, right? That's not right. It wasn't right for me to do it then, and I've said since, it wasn't right for me to do that, right? So it's not right to scold people or say that I told you so

or do any of that stuff, because people are still in a position right now where they need to know what to do in order to get themselves out of the situation that a lot of them put themselves in. But it's not just the people that voted for the stuff that are in that situation, there's all of us. So the messaging that I want to hear coming out of the left is what do we need to do

and how do we do it? And what are they proposing? Right. It seems like the Democrats, the big Democrats, are either scolding or folding. They're either waving their finger at you, right? Or they are completely capitulating to what's happening on the right as we saw the Senate Democrats to do a little while ago. So to me,

what I want to hear from the Democrats or what I want to hear from the people that I caucus with is how they have crafted a vision for America. What it looks like moving forward to be on the left.

That's what I want to hear. So in that particular point, in that particular instance, I'm looking at Vice President Harris and saying, I'm tired of hearing this type of refrain from democratic politicians. I want to hear, and I said this about President Obama too, as it related to, you know, him talking about Donald Trump.

President Obama is up there. If I would have done this, if I would have done this, if I would have done this, if I would have done this. Who fucking cares? President Obama, you are the leader and the most revered voice. in the Democratic Party, right? Who cares about you and what you said and what you would have done and where you are?

Who cares? What type of vision is being put together on the left so that people will be mobilized to go out and vote for Democrats and change the reality of America's political present? What are you guys doing? What are you guys giving people?

What are you talking about to people? What are you going to do? What is this? What is that? Like, what's happening? Because the other side is bad? Didn't work. It lost.

Like, that long. I'm not conjecturing that it might lose. But it lost. That loss. So to me, I think that the Democrats need a course correction. And that course correction is not to continue to talk about how bad things are going to be with Donald Trump in office right now. They already did that and he's in office. What are you guys going to do?

Where do you stand on the world economic order? Where do you stand on environmental justice and where's all of that stuff has to be hit harder? I'm not saying they didn't do it. Correct. I'm saying they didn't do it well enough. Correct. So, you know, I agree with what you're saying. We talked about it before.

They need a vision. They need a leader. They need to get on the same page and prioritize what the American people want and that messaging needs to directly, you know, go down into the communities to them because that did not happen this last election. They were trying to please too many different groups.

Prioritize it, figure it out, get the messaging to them. That's what the Republicans did well, even if it was a lie. They did it, and people voted on it. I took issue to what you said about Kamala Harris because it was just more than that. But I understand the sentiment of the frustration of it can't just be that. I don't think it was just that for her. Same with President Obama.

It wasn't just that. There was more that was said. And I know we keep saying we want a vision. Not to cut you off. But we have to, we have to, I do feel like that, what you're doing right now is, that's just not the way that this works. Because a couple of weeks from now, you said that the other side does this, this is what happens. Donald Trump will make a whole statement and he'll say a whole thing, right? and then the part that distills his message,

the phrase or the quote or whatever, we'll pick that apart in terms of what he means. Because oftentimes, that is very appropriate to do. So, I mean, obviously in a whole conversation about everything that Kamala Harris meant, what Kamala Harris said, or what Barack Obama meant, or Barack Obama said,

you're being charitable to them by kind of not, I don't feel the need to be charitable to them. When Barack Obama says they wouldn't be doing this to me, that's your headline. When Kamala Harris said, I told you so, that's going to be your headline.

When Donald Trump says, whatever, and then he said, that's going to be your headline. And their talkers for a living, they got to know that. It's not up to me to put what they said in context, like, totality when they are the people that shape policy and make the rules for the world.

Okay. So this is what I'll say. I think what President Obama did was worse, former President Obama. He made it about him. Well, if I did this, this is, you know, they would say this. Doesn't matter. Her saying, I told you so. People getting mad at her saying I told you so, you should be, she's correct.

She's telling you, I told you so. And the reason she can say that is because this is what's happening. You shouldn't be mad at her for saying it. You should be mad at for what he's doing. And that's literally that would be my headline to respond back. Don't be mad at what I said. Be mad because what I said is true. You shouldn't be mad at my words. You should be mad that these things are happening and you are being affected by them. The Republicans are going to pick apart anything the Democrats say. And even if they use a direct quote like they did here with her, they'll twist and take words or lie, which they do. That's the thing. We're fighting people who are willing to lie, who have no morals, who have no values. All you can do is fight that with having a clear vision that gets down to the people who are going to go to the box or ballots or mail in and vote for you. That's all you can do. You can't sit here and be like, well, the Republicans are going to do this. So we have to watch every little thing that we say or do.

I think if you focus so much on that, that is part of losing the message and the vision. What I was going to say was we say constantly that we what is the vision, what are you guys doing? I think, or I guess I like to think that they are working on something, right? There's so much that's being thrown on. There's so much that's being thrown at us. There's so many things that are changing every single day that what I would like to think is that there is a vision that is going to come out about how the party is going to combat what the Trump administration. is doing what Republicans in Congress are doing so that they can be ready for the primaries and they can be ready for the next, I mean for the midterms and they can be ready for the next

election. I think that we have to keep talking just like you are and saying this is what we need, this is what we want, this is what we don't like. But if we get fixated on fighting a headline that's negative from the Republicans or have to worry about everything we say for fear of that, I think that's part of losing the message and the vision. I think we have to focus on what it is that we're focusing on. Right. So this is my thing. Number one, I'm not fighting for the Democrats. I know. Right? And so that's very important to say. It's important to say that because I don't, I don't vote for the Democrats because I'm black, right? I vote for the Democrats,

because their policies are best for black people, in my opinion. Clean water for black kids. Like stuff like that. like I tend to vote for the funding of HBCUs forget about people's cult of personality and who they are and all that. I don't care about that. And I don't care about the Democrats beating the Republicans

as much as I care about the people winning with policy. And the only way that the people will win with policy is if a certain group gets their fucking policy together if they get their shit together. So that means that, like, I'm not really here to, to like,

take something that somebody says and view it in the most charitable way. Particularly if their message isn't resonating with people. Now this, to your point, and it's a well-made point, this does not encapsulate everything that Vice President Harris said. And what Obama said doesn't encapsulate everything that President Obama was trying to say. And she was right. She did tell herself. And he is right.

We would have gone crazy. It would have been tan suit stuff if Obama would have done some of the stuff that Donald Trump has done. What I'm saying is that doesn't matter. Not to me. What matters is how they're going to craft policy and how they're going to get the positive momentum rolling to get back in power to change some of the things that they got going on.

And if I'm put in a chair and somebody asked my opinion of a sentence that somebody says they are going to get an honest answer every single time. It doesn't matter who says it, whatever, me going to bat for them is me making sure that I that people know that I appreciate Kamala Harris's position as a black woman and I appreciate the leadership of black women. I appreciate that but I don't like this coming from the top of the left because this is not what I need. This is not what I think they need to be talking about.

But like I mean and that and and and that was it. And so once again, I don't I don't I, I, I, I, I, I, I, just wanted the people to know everywhere. I don't fucking work for the Democrats. Like Scott said that, Scott said I was going to criticize Barack Obama on... Yeah, he did, but you already did it for him, is what he said. I already did it for him. And you know what I said?

They don't pay me. I don't work for the fucking Democrats. I don't work for them. Let me just say this. Even though I said we shouldn't focus on what the other side is doing because they're always going to lie and twist it. And in that moment when you made that comment about former President Obama, and he said, well, you just did it for me.

Your response saying, I don't work for him or the Democrats, I still, I will just say, it's similar to me what Charlemagne was doing when that response is. I'm not saying you're like him, but it's similar to me in that regard. Because when Biden was running and then switched over to Kamala Harris, was very critical on this podcast about the messaging that, you know, Charlemagne was doing, the fact that they used a clip that he's of something he said in their promo. Totally different. The fact that he was leveraging Candace Owens, I feel like when your response is, well, I mean,

I don't work for them. It doesn't mean that you can't say something that's, and I'm not saying that that, I'm not saying it's apples to apples. But the point I'm trying to make is, is it doesn't mean that you're not going to say something that's not going to be taken as critical or say something that is against the movement or that it combats what the side is, even though you don't identify as them, what the side is that you would vote for. You didn't go that far when you made that comment, but it's still a similar sentiment to me. to me, the reason why I don't agree is because the trans thing that the Breakfast Club did was on a direct policy point.

It was on a direct policy point. It wasn't some amorphous, hey, somebody said this and it was a direct policy point that, and not just a direct policy point, but a policy point that is such a flashpoint issue between the left and the right that if you wade into that,

you have got to have a more robust conversation about it. All right? And then the Candace Owens thing is a situation to where you bring Candace Owens onto the show, which some people say, people say this all the time, right? Like we had TK on the show

and people looked at what we did with TK and they go, you guys were insufficient in talking to TK. And they have their right to that opinion, right? if they feel like, you know, I should have got up and kicked TK in this chest with Spike Boots and did all of that stuff.

They are right to have that. They're right to have that. When you put something out and people are listening to your podcast, they are hearing you. And what they really want is for you to echo the sentiments that they have when they feel threatened by an opinion that is dangerous.

And if you don't live up to that, that's how they're going to feel. being in the situation to where, like, what Scott did was, it was a trick back. It was like, I was going to criticize Barocco, but I'm not Scott Jennings, meaning I'm not somebody that is going to take whatever a political side does and ride for it despite what's in front of me. I'm not going to do that because that, to me, that cuts out the actual people. There's a way to have a conversation on trans issues that reflects some people's uncomfortability with the competition in sports. There's a way to have the conversation around trans issues that reflects some people's unwillingness to be as progressive on those issues as we would like them to be. but to just agree with an entire side

and an entire method of thinking without actually putting in the real estate or covering the real estate, should I say, of that issue to me is a little bit different than saying President Obama said that and I think that we should be messaging differently. I just can't give them that. Yeah.

Correct. I'm not disagree with you. I agree. It's not apples to apples. I'm seeing the sentiment of like, well, I mean, I don't really, they don't pay me. I'm not one of them. I don't work for them. Because I guess, and I mean, who knows if, I mean, it's easier to say what you would have done when you're not in the situation. But you're right. It was a trick bag what Scott Jennings did because he says, well, you know, like thank you for criticizing him. And it's like what you were doing, Van You, you weren't, you're not critical of Obama in the same way that he, is. You were criticizing. Maybe you are. Maybe in that one instance. I would agree with him. Yeah. That's my point. But that's not what his sentiment was. His sentiment was I was going to criticize him, but you did as if like we're both being critical of him in the same ways. As if like you, like, you're being critical of him. I'm critical of him. Let's move on. It's like, no, you were criticizing him over this one thing because you feel like it hurts in this way. It hurts the messaging in this way. He don't like President Obama for a myriad of reasons, I guess, is what I was saying. So it's like, my criticism is not the same as your criticism, but whatever.

Yeah, and even in that, what I said was I wonder if President Obama's relationship, because what we were talking about wasn't the Trump thing. We were talking about the story that President Obama was, was, didn't want Kamala Harris to even run. It wasn't being supportive of her. And so my question was, I wonder if his, if his reputation is durable enough to survive the fact that he scolded black men, and now some people will look at the fact that he didn't want Kamala Harris,

who was the first major black female candidate for the pedantic people out there, major black female candidate to run for office in terms of she got the nomination. And that was the question. The question was, I wonder if Obama as the sort of finger wagger in chief, if people will still have the same fuzzy feelings about him knowing that. And that was it. And so, you know, anyway, we spent too long on that because I got sort of defensive. But I don't work for the Democrats, y'all.

Donnie, let's wait until the race wars. Let's do it. Unfortunately, we have to. Austin Metcalf, an 11th grader, died after police said another student stabbed him during the fight in the bleachers at a track meet in Frisco, Texas. Now, witnesses report that the fight started after Metcalf told the suspect Carmelo Anthony, who goes to another high school to move out from under his team's tent. Now, witnesses report that Anthony allegedly reached inside his bag and said, touched me and see what happens. Metcalfe allegedly grabbed Anthony to move him, and then Anthony allegedly pulled. out what the witnesses described as a black knife and stabbed Austin once in the chest and then ran away.

Carmela Anthony has been charged with first-degree murder. Thoughts on the incident and the fallout that is taking place afterwards. This is going to be tough. Your neck of the woods. Well, this is going to be tough. I think staying your ground law is always tricky, even more so than the Castle Doctrine. which, you know, is you being in your house or your vehicle or in your workplace, whereas staying your ground is just, it can be anywhere.

The thing that I keep thinking about, in particular to Austin, who lost his life, and Carmelo, who is claiming self-defense, is that it seems like all the witnesses, the people who are going to tell the story, are all going to be from Austin, side. Austin died in the arms of his identical twin brother. It's alleged that Carmelo was by their school's tent. It sounds like everybody around was with Austin and, you know, his schoolmates, teammates, and Carmelo was by himself. If that's the only perspective that you're getting, it's going to be really hard, I think. I mean, witnesses are already from the little that's come out, are saying that he was sitting under the tent,

that Austin told him to leave, that he reached in his bag, grabbed a knife, stabbed him, and ran off. And that's just the little bit that we're getting. But it seems like it's going to be he said, she said, or he said, he said, and the he said from Austin's side seems, it's going to have more witnesses, I think, that are going to combat Carmelso's self-defense

unless there's some video or somebody else saw it. I think the defense is going to have a really hard time. Well, the defense is going to claim self-defense. I think the prosecution is going to have an easier way to prove that there was a lack of self-defense based on the little information that we know right now. I mean... Go ahead.

You're a legal eagle, so you know more about this than me. Two things. Number one, this story is wildly different than the story that was initially told. Right? wildly different than the story that was initially told. The story that was initially told was that there was, contest is going to matter here,

that there was an altercation where somebody asked someone to move and then somebody took out a knife and killed someone. And it was initially mine for gold on the right by people who said that had the rolls been reversed, that there would have been an outcry and that there was no outcry here

because your victim is white and your alleged assailant is black. So that was used by the Kirk Shapiro, Benny Johnson wing of the Internet to say that nobody cares about white lives. A hilarious, a hilarious thought, right? And that is not true. The actual details of what has happened is

Carmelo was sitting down there. He was in a different tent. It was raining. So there is a possibility that because of the rain, Carmelo Anthony decided to go into any tent that he could. He was sitting inside of a tent. We don't know why he was sitting inside of the tent just yet. It was raining.

He was sitting inside of a tent. he was asked to move by Austin Metcalf. Austin Metcalf, Carmelo Anthony said no. Austin Metcalf then, according to Carmelo Anthony, made in advance, and Carmelo Anthony said, touch me and see what happens. He then pulled out a black knife and stabbed him once in the chest and ran away.

There are a bunch of thoughts here. My first thought is condolences to the Metcalf family. That is an unspeakable tragedy to have happened to your son and then to your other son that had to watch his brother be killed. I'm wondering a couple of things. Why was Carmelo Anthony so afraid of Austin Metcalfe? Why? Like, what made him look at him and be like, yo, stay back? Like, why was he so afraid of him?

And after warning him, why did Austin Metcalf advance on Carmelo Anthony? Like, why? That's what I'm wondering. I think that the context under which this altercation took place is going to be very important. Did these boys know each other? Had these boys had any contact before? By the way, the entire framing of thug versus great, nice kid, is a wash. You have two good students, two football players, two kids that hadn't really been in any trouble.

Two kids that hadn't really been in any trouble. So vicious thug who killed innocent kid, that out of the window. That's not what happened to you. There's a story that happened here that only more investigation is going to bring to the forefront. And I'd even say this. Carmelo Anthony,

when he runs from the tent, immediately tells the cops what he did. He immediately goes, yeah, there's no alleged, I did that. And he felt like he was defending himself. And he asked, is it self-defense? Is it self-defense? He felt like he was defending himself.

So I'm not saying anything because there's so much of the information. And in doing this story, we try to look at information that had been corroborated and that was definite and not take some of the other stuff that you're maybe hearing on TikTok or social media or YouTube. And that's what I'm trying to say.

Who's going to tell the story? That's my whole point. From the information we have, it sounds like it was Carmelo. and to your point, you know, again, we have so very little. But if he did run under, if he ran under the tent because it was raining, he was there with a bunch of people that weren't, you know what I'm saying? Like they weren't his friends.

It wasn't his school. It wasn't, you know, so who knows if the fear was, I'm here alone? I don't, we don't know. But my biggest concern is who's going to tell the story. Sadly, Austin is no longer here. You're not going to hear his version. going to be who was around the witnesses and Carmelo telling his story. Unless, to your point, there's some history there and they knew each other, unless there's some video from a bystander

who saw it, unless, you know, one of the witnesses tells a different story from what we're hearing right now. But from what we have, I don't know. Let's just say this is what all we have. I don't know if it qualifies for self-defense, understand your ground. I don't know that. because the level of force used has to be proportionate to the threat that's perceived. Did Austin, I'm giving you, go ahead. I know, no, no, I know you're right, but man, I mean, I'm saying it is going to be a hard, if this is all we have, it is going to be a hard case to prove. Let me stop saying it that way.

All the defense has to do is raise. the claim of self-defense. It is up to the prosecution to disprove at least one element of self-defense. So the prosecution has to say, prove how it wasn't self-defense. So one of the ways that they can do that is saying that the level of force used by Austin was not proportionate to the threat perceived, right? But we don't know. Again, you don't know if he had a weapon.

You don't know if it was Austin and five other people coming at him. You know, from the school, we just. don't know. I'm just saying it's going to be hard if it's Carmelo's story versus everybody else's. That's one of the things that I fear. And from the way they're even telling it, they're making it seem like he said, touch me and see what happens. Well, one of the things also is that if you're going to use deadly force, you can't provoke the person against whom the force was used. The way they're telling the story we have right now is almost making it seem like Carmelo, I think I believe it, just telling you what we have.

Like he provoked it. Like, touch me and see what happens. We need more. You need more. It's just, and I hope they get more. And for Austin and his family, because you're never going to be healed after the loss, as you already said,

but for Austin and his family to know what happened. And for Carmelo and his family to know what happened. I hope that there's more information that comes out. For what it's worth, Austin Metcass's father has come out and said, don't make it a race issue. That's impossible. It was made a race issue

as soon as we got word of everything that happened. So if I'm packing, if I got a gun on me, and somebody's about to like accost me in some way, and I show them the weapon. And I go, watch out.

Like, don't come over here. I got it on me. And they come over there. That's me inviting them to attack. back me? I didn't say that. I'm not saying that you're saying that. I'm asking about the law.

What I'm saying is that like, if I tell you, A, don't touch me. If you touch me is going to be bad. Like, that could be perceived. I'm asking from a legal standpoint,

that can be perceived as me inviting the confrontation. Not inviting. What I said was is that you can't provoke the conversation. The person against whom. Well, if you're like,

don't come near me, I have a gun. I get, it's, it depends, right? Am I, am I a woman standing next? Am I the woman holding the gun and you're a six-form ban, you know, whatever, like twice my size coming at me and you won't stop? There's a perceived threat there. I mean, again, it's all based on the circumstances where they equally matched in weight. You know, that's why I'm like, was it five of them against him that he got fearful and Austin was leading it?

Did all of them say, we're going to get you out of here? And he's scared because 10 people are coming at him. We just don't know. We just don't know. There could be, there's just a lot of questions surrounding it. But I think because it's a race issue, that's, if it goes to trial and it's with the jury, you know, people are going to perceive it a certain way. Black or white, whichever side that you stand on, I think that that's just like you're going to see it a certain way just because of the history of black and white people in this country. It's just, I think it's just going to be hard.

If they can prove one thing that shows that it's not self-defense, one element, it's not self-defense. It's just, you know what the difficult thing is here? Darren Wilson said that Mike Brown looked like a demon Hulkholy. Mike Brown was 17 years old. Yeah. And there's a police officer with a gun. Mike Brown didn't have a gun. Mike Brown didn't have a knife.

Derek Wilson was able to turn Mike Brown, a kid into a demon Hulk Hogan. Mm-hmm. It's a kid, right? 17, 18-year-old kid and say that he feared for his life so he had to execute him. George Zimmerman was able to follow

Trayvon Martin, until Trayvon Martin was scared for his life. You in the dark is raining. Somebody's following you. They get out. They provoke you

using powers that they don't have. You fight with them. You start winning a fight. They kill you. We have listened to so many instances here of you attack me. Man, I posted a video on the internet

and the internet was of this black kid getting called the N-word. And then he like fucking really impressively. Side kicks the window out of this guy's car, right? Because he's saying, come out and deal with it. When you go through the comments of that, it's a bunch of white people going, blam, blam, blam.

Woulda shot him. It's a threat. Yeah. It seems like the narrative with staying your ground or with any of this stuff over the past 10 years has been, you advance upon me? I'll kill you. Yeah. Like, I'll kill you.

Not knocking on your door, not shouting at you, not any of that stuff. But the narrative has been, you advance upon me, like you. physically try to accost me, you want to do physical stuff to me, I'll kill you. I follow a lot of these stories. There's one in Florida where a guy killed a guy outside of a convenience store over an argument that he had been having with the guy's girl over a parking space, a parking and handicapped parking space. But on that one, the video clearly shows the man not running up on the guy.

Like it clearly shows him stopping and yelling. But, you know, in this case, there's so much more information that needs to come out. Right. So much more information. But all of the outrage seems to one, all the outrage seems to run counter to so many of the heroes

that have been made by people, the cow-written houses and the will. and the Zimmermans and all of these people. Well, the scariest thing to me is, all right, so the person perceives, believes that there's an imminent threat of some type of bodily harm or death, right? Like, I'm scared. The other part of it is the proportionality of it of, is it reasonable for you to feel that way, right? So I give the example of, and then is it reasonable for me to feel that way and then match it with a certain type of force, right?

Because of the threat that I perceive. So I give the example of you of I'm a woman, you're a man taller than me, twice my size. People could say like that's reasonable, right? She might, don't look at me like that, you're twice my size. Be careful now. Fan. I know, but I'm saying that only makes you say. 200 and something pounds.

That only makes you 200 and something pounds. I know, I'm just saying like, you know, when I, when you said that, once again, as we talk about the Sierra thing and how black men's feelings are, you know, I've talked about my titty issues on the podcast. I've talked about titties. Like, literally, I was doing the boxing VR a couple of days ago and I heard a clap. Don't know where it came from. Could it come from the tities.

Could it come from the ass. Could have come from something. I literally, I was boxing around and I heard a clap. And I stopped. And I was like, yo, what the fuck? But there was a clap. Something clapped.

I'm literally making you like 260. You have a problem with that? Yes. You know. Okay. All right. Okay. So man or woman, that's easy for someone to see.

What scares me with the jury, which we've seen in some of the cases that you called out, Kyle Rittenhouse, George Zimmerman, there's, depending on what the makeup, of the jury, it has been established within court cases and in society that there is a connotation of when it's a black person and a white person, right? You look at a black person, as you said,

the way they describe Mike Brown versus the way white people are perceived in the society of certain stereotypes that are placed on them where it's easier for someone to see the black person as a perceived threat, but not a white person as a perceived threat. And that's where it scares me if it goes to trial. That's where it's not fair. Are they going to consider, can a white person be considered a threat? Are they going to look at? It's such a funny question. Are they going to look at him and say, are people going to be able to put their stereotypes and their perceived connotations to the side of when it comes to a black man and a white man, are they going to be able to say there's no way that that white man could,

that black man could have been scared of that white man. I'm serious. I'm with you, but that just shows me. That's what scares me with a jury is what I'm saying. Because of the way black men versus white men are looked in the society, one is described, how did he describe him as a demon? Mike, Darren Wilson said that Mike, Darren Wilson said,

that Mike Brown looked like a demon Hulk Hogan. Like he was physically so afraid of Mike Brown as Mike Brown was coming towards him. My Brown's a kid. It was like a demon Hulk Hogan is what he said like a big, possessed Hulk Hogan. And there's a lot of fear mongering historically of black men and how they're described.

And it is it for some, I'm not going to say all white people, but for some non-black people, it is easy for them to believe that that is. how a white police officer could perceive a black 17-year-old man. Can they flip that and say it was reasonable for, and again, we don't know the facts. I'm just saying in general, can they say it was reasonable for Carmelo to have feared for his life? From, I don't know.

I don't know. So this is what he says. This is what Darren Wilson said. he yeah he said Wilson described Brown as a demon as Hulk and as Hulk Hogan like I felt like a five-year-old holding on to Hulk Hogan

is what he said. Brown looked like a demon even before the struggle ensued. So there was a physical struggle between And a jury believe that. And a jury believed that. Right, there was a physical struggle between Mike Brown and and Darren Wilson. So there was a

jury. Brown says the confrontation they confront him as car I tried to hold his right arm and use my left arm but I felt like this is a grown man listening he said and when I grabbed him the only way I could describe it is I felt like a five-year-old holding on the whole coat they went for that and they went for it

and they went for it they believed it it's this is sad in general somebody lost their life family lost a son someone lost a brother, someone lost a friend, someone lost a teammate. You know, it's just, it's sad all around, and I do hope that more comes out so they can figure out what to do with this case. We're going to move on.

I say this, though, to the arguments that we were having even before about how things are positioned, based upon the political sphere that you're in. Mm-hmm. I want you to listen to us, take pause, to identify and acknowledge the humanity in Austin Metcalfe. How sad it is, how tragic it is. And it is sad and it is tragic, and that's who we are.

I just want people to know that we're doing that. And we feel the need to do that. But that wasn't done for Trayvon Martin. That wasn't done for Mike Brown. That wasn't done for Sandra Blaine. That wasn't done for Eric Garner. They do not do that in cases where these people are killed. They start digging up pictures immediately.

They start showing you with your goals. They start showing you posting up. with your friends. They start talking about your history. That wasn't done for George Floyd. They start calling you a drug addict and they start immediately dehumanizing you. They did that to Carmelo Anthony. Immediately found a picture of him with an airsoft gun. It's an airsoft gun that they found a picture of him. And so we're doing that and we're deeply, deeply trying to litigate this because we understand what it means. Actually, we don't understand. We're trying to understand what it means for a family to lose their son. But if we're talking about

all of the whatever, that's just, it just doesn't happen. And that's why to me, when I'm looking at this, what I'm attempting to do is hold space for the tremendous tragedy that this is. At the same time, I want to know why he was so afraid. I want to know why he was so scared. Yeah. I just want to know why. I've been to a bunch of track meets, a bunch of situations.

I've been in other teams' tents. I've been chilling at a jamboree with the other squad. I've been, I know people that play for Saint-Amau, or I know people, or like, whatever, I've been there. I ain't never had nobody walk over and try to put hands on me and say, get the fuck up and move. And if you tried that,

I don't give a fuck where I was sitting. It was going to be some motherfucking shit. So I, what doesn't get talked about enough when we talk about thugs and whatever is how violent the 17-year-old white male could be. How violent the cockstrong country boy could be. And how they get down at parties

and how they get down at what it is, is that they do. And the reason why is because they're violent sometimes, and this is once again, I don't know Austin Metcalf or what happened. I'm talking about the perception. What I'm saying is that they get to go through phases like that in high school and in college and then after college at the bar when they're throwing some back and then go on to be captains of industry and farmers and all of that stuff. They get to like make mistakes where they even get in the little trouble and then have those mistakes glossed over where with us it's once a thug, always a thug.

So I'm not, we don't know nothing and I hope that we know more. I'm just looking at this like really why was he so afraid? No. But like I ran track my whole life before college. I know what's, again, you're looking at me like I'm crazy. yes, I ran track. I did summer track. I'm so familiar with the whole setup, the meets, how they work, all of it. If he was the sole person under that tent, that's scary. And they're telling you to get out, I can see how that's scary. Again, we don't know. But like, you're the sole person and everybody else. There's so many people that can fit under a tent, especially depending on how big it is. We'll keep people updated as more starts to unfold from this story. But I do want to say one thing about the narrative of him having a knife that I've seen.

if you've been to track meets, if you're familiar with the culture, you know that you're out there for such a long time. And what do people have with them when they're out there? They have coolers. They have snacks. You don't know why he had the knife. You don't know if he was cutting fruit,

cutting his food that he was going to eat because you have to stay energized and, like, you know, you have carbs. Like, for the assumption to be, he must have been ready for something or he's this type of person because he had a knife. He was at a track meet. It is so likely to have utensils

or to have something like that at a track me when you're out there for hours. Sometimes all day, if it's a weekend, track me. Yeah. I used to carry a knife on me at all times when I was a kid. Or it could be that. Some people do that too. But I'm just saying, he has knife.

He must, he's guilty. No. This episode is brought to you by Sweet Cream. The day doesn't ask for permission. Lunch window? Gone before you saw it coming. You deserve a break that actually satisfies. Sweet Green's new wraps have got you.

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I'm going to let you mean this one. What do you mean? You don't know what he's talking about. What are we talking about when it comes to people in the hip-hop genre and terrorists? Well, I got bad news for rappers, Rachel. You like rappers. Who's your favorite rapper right now, Rachel? I don't have one.

You don't have a favorite rapper right now? Tyler the creator. Okay. This might not bother him because he got money. I got bad news for rappers. I was looking at all

of the different industries that are going to be hit by tariffs. And this is bad news for you new niggas. Bad news. Now for the older,

more established rappers, it's going to be fine. They're going to be fine. They got money. They can absorb the hit. But I'm looking at these industries. okay. And these are very hip-hop friendly industries. These tariffs are anti-hip-hop.

Chanel, Hermes, Fendi, Gucci, Dior, prices all going up. The Dior saddlebag, currently priced at $4,400 could go up to $5,200. The Chanel flat bag, all of this stuff that you guys use to attract the little Instagram models that you like. It's going up. Curly price at $10,400 could go up to $12,480. Now, you guys might be looking at me and saying, hey, that's not that big of a deal for like an offset.

But what if you got your first Instagram hit and you're trying to get that girl that you always liked that you used to see at Phipps Plaza? Used to see her at Linux. And you want her. Bro, you might have to get another YouTube hit to get her now because of extra $2,000. Defendi baguette is priced at $3,400.

That's going to go up to $4,100. Gucci, the Jackie bag, is growing up $1,000. But it doesn't stop there. LVMH, Moet, Hennessy, Louis Vuitton, the white people that have been owning niggas for a generation now, All of their stuff going up. 24% rates.

The tricking is in trouble. The tariffs is about to have the tricking in trouble. Prada. 16% Hermaze. 17% Bearberry. 19% Montclair. 13% is all going up. Jaguar and Land Rover are pausing shipment.

to the United States, y'all not going to have no Jaguars and not going to have no Range Rovers. Once again, if you superpaid might not bother you. But we all know that for some of these rappers, the Range Rover is the entry-level

swagmobile. That's the one that you first get, man, you can't afford, yeah, man, Rachel, you know these niggas, Rachel, I know you know these niggas. I don't know that. You can't afford the Lamborghini yet, the Ferrari yet. You can't afford it yet. but the range rover you could get it.

In Baton Rouge, if you have a range rover, you're so-and-so with the range rover. Let's say your name is Jared. You're not Jared no more. A little Jared, little Jay. You little Jay with the range rover. Little Jay, you're not going to be able to get that because the tariffs is stopping you from getting the range rover.

India is the world's largest supplier of what, Rachel? No idea. Polish diamonds. And they will face a lot of, a 27% tariff on U.S.-bound shipments of all products. Y'all gonna be failing the diamond tester.

Zip, zip, zip, zip, zip, zip, zip, fail, fail, fail. All of y'all, lab-grown diamonds for all of y'all. A lot of y'all can only afford those anyway, and we can see your shit. We know your shit is fake. But that's okay. India tariffs, they tariffing hip-hop.

They are tariffing hip-hop. I know you niggas like to get high and play video games Nintendo Switch Not coming Not coming It's not, Nintendo said no Tariffs Tariffs, tariffs, tariffs, tariffs, tariffs, tariffs, tariffs,

No Switch And we haven't even talked about The PlayStation and the Xbox And what's going to happen with the tariffs Y'all going to be playing with the PlayStation 2 Y'all going to be playing Xbox 1 Y'all better get back on that Halo Because the new stuff

You're not going to be able to afford it And I said weaves, weed. And I said weev. Weaves, no. Weaves. Weaves are coming from China. A lot of the hair that you get that's coming from China, tariffs. Tariffs, tariffs, tariffs, y'all better go natural.

Because the hair is not going to be there for you. India, China, it's not going to happen anymore. Also, how about this? Sweeping tariffs imposed by U.S. President Donald Trump are set to increase prices on cannabis products in the United States as many firms rely on Asia for manufacturing. The latest levees will stack up to any duties imposed

on earlier countries. Weed. Weed and weed products. Every industry that y'all love. I'm not even going to talk about these flights that y'all flying people out on, going through the roof, going through the roof, y'all going to be putting these girls on Amtrak.

Ladies, these guys, it might take you two days to get to future now. You might have to really show your love to future. Because future might have to put you on the train in Jim Pop or the Greyhound Bus. Hip hop, y'all voted for Trump. We know a lot y'all did. And now the have-nots is going to be even less heavy. And the halves is going to be through the roof. Y'all not going to be competing for the same women.

Ruby Rose is out. She's going to be with the top one percenters now. You guys with a couple hits, you can't afford her no more. The tariffs, this is a tariff on hip-hop, Rachel. It's a hip-hop tariff. Wow. Okay. Thank you for that rant.

I'm sure. I'm sure. I'm sure they will take heed after hearing what you had to say. I'm sure they will adjust, make adjustments, do what they need to do to figure it out. What I thought you were going to talk about. When it came to rappers and tariffs was how the music industry is reacting to the global tariffs and the stock market is reacting, obviously, according to that. And a lot of these industries, live events, podcasting, streaming, radio, they're being

impacted by the tariffs and they're losing their stocks. That's what I thought you were going to talk about. I thought you were going to talk about the fact that IHR Radio and Sirius X, Sam, their stock is plumbing. That's what I thought you were going to talk about. Not trick. It ain't tricking if you got. Well, it's not, first of all.

Okay. But I'll tell you this, Rachel, anybody listening to this podcast for this long should have realized you have to use the bathroom. I do. Anybody listen to this podcast this long should realize that you're smart and I'm dumb. So I think about the dumb things and make them smart.

And you think about the smart things and make them divisive. So what I'm saying right now is a lot of these rappers voted for Trump. And they're about to get their asses kicked. And what you say is very important as well because the stock is going down and everything's going to be more expensive. and when discretionary income is at a low and companies don't have money, you guys are going to get smaller deals. You guys are going to do less tour support.

The payola is going to be crazier. Everything is going to be stressed. Everything is going to be stressed for these rappers. Everything, including the diamonds and the weed and the video games and the Chanel bags and all of this stuff that's a part of their experience. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start.

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Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimfaya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfair Radio.com. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business.

So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. Okay, top prospect Cooper Flag had a good game this weekend and Duke's loss to Houston in the semifinals of the NCAA tournament. Cooper was on an unfortunate side of a late game call and he missed a potential game winning shot. Crazy ending.

Did you guys enjoy the Duke loss or do you feel bad for the Blue Devils? Fuck them! Oh, jeez. Fuck them. Fuck Duke like crazy. Fuck everybody. that went to Duke besides my man Jay Williams

Jay is cool Jay is great I love Jay fuck Duke I was so ecstatic I was with Tommy Alter at this place called Walkers in New York

there were these two ladies there that I met at the bar and I was talking to them and one of the ladies said that she lived uptown two white ladies one of the ladies very nice ladies one of the ladies said that she lived uptown

and then I was like oh, with my people. And then she went, what do you mean your people? I mean, like black people up there. Then we had a whole conversation about her being a little mad that I said that black people were my people. She goes, am I not your people? And I'm like, you could be my people,

but you would have to prove it first. Meanwhile, black people have to disprove being my people. So if you're a black person, I assume that you are my people. And then you have to say something to prove that you are not my people. if you were a white person, I assume that you are probably not my people, but then you can be in like one conversation.

But anyway, but Duke was losing when we left, and they were winning when we left, and then when we got the word in the car on our way to this great party that Tommy had going, they lost, and I was so happy. Tommy was upset.

Why? Because he loves Duke and Cooper Flagg for obvious reasons. Fuck them. Because those are, his people? I didn't, nope. I can't say it. Is that what you, is that? I haven't done it. I've been able to talk about things, but I haven't done it. So we can't have the my people conversation because of that, okay. Duke. Fuck them. Um, Donnie, I have a question. The way that Van talked about Austin and Carmelow and the examples, which were obviously right of talking about Mike Brown and

Trayvon Martin. Yes. That was about race. No. I was mulling is over in my head. We talked about not, there was no way to have the conversation as we expanded it to talking about what is the definition of a perceived threat and who is deemed more a perceived threat than not based on the history of this country. You can't talk about it without talking about race.

Donnie, I believe we have a strike too. Yeah. That one has to. Okay, let's hear your protest out. What do you have to say? I named specific names. I did not say when a black kid, when a black man, when a black woman, I named specific names, and I asked the question.

I named specific names, okay? I asked the question. Now, if somebody can find me going back and saying black, then that's one thing. I named specific names. And I ask the question. I hope you can roll it back. We'll let this one slide.

This is a win for Ben. That's fine. That's fine. I forgot. I just had to ask. All right. So we can't have the My People. Grace counter remains at one.

We can't have the My People conversation, even though that's colloquialism for black people. That was me. But hold on. I'll say something else. I can't bring up race, but race, they brought race to me. Let's move on. Okay. You hate Duke.

You hate the Blue Devils. You're happy they lost. I did not watch the game. I was on a boat in Miami with the girls, with the girls celebrating my friend who was getting married at the end of the month. Wieners in the mouth, I saw it. I didn't do it.

Wieners, weeners, I saw you guys with the wieners. How did you see it? Because people, people made me aware. I didn't post it. People made me aware of you guys doing weeners in the mouth. I didn't do it. So when you go, so when you go with, when you have a one nigger night,

Was it a one nigger night? There were two of us. Two of us. So it was a dual nigger day is what it was then. So then when you're having those, you play the winner in the mouth game. I saw you with the sperm and all of that stuff. Like I saw you with the big sperm thing. You're getting, okay, I saw it.

You had a fun time. I had a great time. It's a bachelorette party, you know. It was, it was Miami. So, you know, we did all the Miami things. Kiki on the river. 11. Nelly performed, speaking of rappers and tariffs and Trump.

Okay. Nelly performed. We did boat ride in Miami. We, yeah, we had dinner at the house. It was a beautiful time, so much fun. Yeah, yeah. And it was, when you sent me the message and you say, we're going to talk about this on the podcast,

I turned to my friend and I said, one nigger nights. Yeah. Well, do a nigger days. Look, I hate Duke. I hate Duke. I don't have an issue. Okay.

I hate Duke. And Cooper Flagg, who is a, you know, a very good basketball player, is the player of the year, has been anointed, the savior of, you know. Of what? Okay. And are we talking about Walter Clayton Jr.? from Florida who went super saying mode

a deadly light skin shoota. A deadly light skin going crazy. I was so happy when Duke lost, man. I'm so viciously against Duke. Clearly. This is, oh, you know who else is cool from Duke? Who? Austin Rivers is cool.

I like Austin Rivers a lot. Okay. I'm trying to think of other Duke people that I like, but it's not a lot of them. Fuck. Duke. You don't like Grand Hill. What'd you say? Grant Hill. He's a good guy.

Really? You don't like Grand Hill? I do. I will say that the way I feel about Grand Hill, Grand Hill's great. Great wife. Nah, Grant Hill's the man. It's just hard for me to...

You tried to make your work. Let it go. Yeah. Like, Grand Hill, it's hard for me to be against Grand Hill. But then again, it's hard for me to be for Grand Hill because Grand Hill, was part of the worst, most hateable Duke team that ever lived. This is the Duke team that set the bar for me hating Duke. But then again, Grant Hill came out and he was on,

he was on living single with Cadeja. He was crossing niggas and dunking. I gotta love Grant Hill, man. Grant Hill is up there. You guys are right. Now I think about it, Elton Brand is kind of cool too. You know, Jason Tatum can get fucked. But Elton Brand is kind of cool too.

But, yeah, I'm happy that Duke lost. Sadness for Duke. You know, I'd say something. These saviors, they've had trouble winning. Like, Caitlin Clark has never won anything. When I say that Caitlin Clark has never won anything, I mean that Caitlin Clark has never won anything. Caitlin Clark didn't win in high school.

Caitlin Clark didn't win in college. She's legitimately. You mean championships, not like she didn't win awards. I'm talking about winning. She's been awarded things, okay? But she's never won anything. She's never won. She lost the LSU.

Then I think she came back and then she lost to South Carolina. She lost in the high school championships. She hasn't won anything. Cooper Flagg didn't win. So I'm just saying. What about Paige? They need to do some winning. Page one?

Page one of us, man. Well, you said White's, I didn't say why You said page is one of us Why You just did what you criticized All the time You gave her a seat

You invited her to the picnic I'm not saying I invite her to the picnic You did what you hate People do all the time Why? Because Paige posts TikToks and she's You know she she dance She does all the dances

Nah You just said, I've never, Donnie, you have to, I've never once heard you on this podcast. Yeah. A close second is Tommy, but I've never heard you say on this podcast, give such a compliment to a white person. Let alone a white woman.

Look up Paige's family. Donnie? Do it right now. Yeah, it's like your body was rejecting it. You said it under your breath, like your body, you try to take it back. This isn't even a strike.

This isn't even a strike. Look up Page's family. It's not even a strike. Look up Page's family. This is a huge moment for the higher learning podcast. You just said a white person was one of us. So listen. Forget the strike.

We're beyond strikes at this point. Look up Paige's family. I don't care. Okay. And I like Paige. There's nothing there, but I. So let me clarify. You're right.

Let me clarify. This is what I mean. Remember? Remember when I said, I'm not talking about us as in that word that I'm not saying this month. I'm talking about us as women. Remember I did the you people thing at the beginning? And I said you can be one of our people. You can be, I can say my people and me, and that can be a multiracial coalition.

And Page is one of us in terms of that. Like, Paige, Paige was playing gospel during the warm up. Paige came up with it. Page been with it for a while, man. I fuck with Paige in a different way. That makes her adjacent to the culture. She is one of, she is a, she's not a you people. She's a, Paige is different than Caitlin Clark and Cooper Flagg.

Nobody's denying that. Nobody's denying that. Of course, yes, that's obvious. She's different. I like it. But you said she is one of us. I don't, Donnie, I don't want anything else except for the line of. Paige is one of us.

She's one of us. You said it. I'll tell you something. Look at Paige's family. That's her step. It's a step. Yes. She has a half brother who's a brother who's half black.

She's being. This is a new van. Is this what happens when you decide to set aside talking? You get lost in it? Page was raised by a black woman. That's all I'm saying. Page was raised by a black woman. It's like, boy, I was about to make,

I was about to make the worst. comparison ever. You're on a roll, but I won't do it. Page was raised by a black woman. All right? So I'm saying for Paige, it is not, it is different. For Caitlin Clark and Cooper Flagg, who are, yo, I want to be like Kobe.

I want to be like Kobe. I'm a killer. That's one thing. But Paige was raised by a black woman, and that's got to count for something. I think we should go out on a high note. This is, let's not talk about Diro. No, let's not talk about dire wolf.

Because I'm still in shock. So it means nothing to you that Page was raised by a black woman. Look at her family. It's different. It's different. Paige was raised by a black lady. She's raised by a black woman, which means she is probably sensitive

to certain things that affect black people in ways that people who are white and grow up in a two white parent home or even just a single white parent home probably aren't because she's lived very adjacent to it. But at the end of the day, Paige is a blonde woman

when she steps out into this world. And it's only till recent that people have really been highlighting the fact that she has black family members. But that doesn't make you... So is bad baby black? Is bad Barbie? whatever the fuck her name is.

Bad Barbie? Bad Barbie. What's your... What the... What you're talking about? She's all up adjacent. When you... I mean...

Listen. She got a half black child. By the way, I've never said the B-word. I said one of us. I'm not focused on the strikes. Okay. So I said one of us. When I just said before, you people,

page is different. Take it back. Take it back. This is what I'm saying. This is what I'm saying. what I'm saying. So, okay, I won't take it back, but I'll walk it back. All right. You're right. I'm glad that you're holding me accountable. Donnie, I'm glad that Rachel's holding me accountable. I need to be reigned in. So I won't say that she's one of us. That's too far.

Okay? When I say us, I didn't mean the word, even though I'm pretty sure I use it in the Kamala Harris thing. What I would say, is that Paige is a little different than some of these other people. She was raised by a black woman. Okay? Doesn't mean, but she literally is different.

She's not no Cooper Flagg, Cooper Flagg, yo. Cooper Flagg probably rapping the N-word and he's probably like, you know, he's a Duke guy. Paige would never go to do. Paige would never go to do. So she might.

No, she's one of us. Why couldn't she? I'm fucking with you, Paige. It's very happy for you. Now, congratulations to Yukon. As far as I was concerned, I counted that as a win. Like, I've been...

For us. I counted that as a win. Okay? Now, maybe I shouldn't have, but I feel like context matters. Page is not... Page different. That's all I'll say.

Be mad at me for it. I like this new era of people being mad at me. Um... She's not, okay, I'll put you like this. Paige doesn't have an entrance to the barbecue or whatever this part. I don't believe in that. However, she could come with her family. Donnie, I think we're done, right?

So, hey, nigger. You're talking to me or Paige? Tickets are on sale right now for, for, the higher learning live show at the ringer.com backslash events

we are going to have Will Smith Beyonce and Barack Obama join us at the live show at the Gramacy Theater so

don't want to miss it you don't want to miss it Barack Obama is going to be there in debate with Rachel and I Will Smith is going to premiere one of his newest

movies just 10 10 minutes of of men in black seven. And Beyonce is going to do a very special performance for us at the live show. So you guys are not going to want to miss it. Okay, at the Gramercy Theater,

Will Smith, Beyonce, Barack Obama. And maybe Michelle, too. We actually might do Brock and Michelle together, but we might get them together to talk about their relationship and see if we can figure some things out. Chelsea wants you to clarify that that's a joke. Who wants you to clarify?

Chelsea says that's a joke. You have to clarify that that's a joke. I have to clarify that that's a joke. Yep. Okay. Okay. Okay. Maybe it's a joke, guys.

Could be said just for fun. How about this? I'll say it like this. You never know if Beyonce or Barack Obama, Michelle Obama, or Will Smith is going to show up. You never know. Yeah, that's better.

I'm not saying that they are going to be there, but I'm not saying that they're not. But you never know. Tell you things caps off, but do not stop learning and don't stop wondering. Who's going to show up at the live show? Theringer.com backslash events. I'm Van Lathen, Jr.

and I'm Rachel Lynn Let's see Bye guys