Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Kanye, Kim and Celebrity Parenthood. Plus, Van Learns About Neo-Soul

Episode Date: March 18, 2025

Van and Rachel give a review of Playboi Carti’s latest album, ‘Music’ (7:19), before reacting to Kanye West and Kim Kardashian butting heads over a new song featuring Diddy and their daughter (17:22), and Anthony Mackie’s backlash for comments on masculinity (38:45). Then, Congress and Trump avoid shutting down the government (56:10), and Rachel addresses the tragedy of domestic violence (1:12:05) before Ian Von, host of ‘Let’s Talk R&B,’ joins to school Van on neo-soul (1:17:37). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? I learned it is on. It is I Van Lathen Jr. And it's me, Rachel Lundsen. We'll start off by saying something right now. I'm not getting paid for this. But I plan to pay these people black.

And I didn't know how to do it. Pay them black or pay them back? Pay them back and pay them back. Okay. Okay, so I've told the story before. During the pandemic, I was all fucked up. Okay. My anxiety was.

was getting to me in the holy cold. It's just cold in here, right? Real cold? Yeah. A little cold. My anxiety was getting to me and I was looking for ways to like keep my immune system up and like, you know, do the whole thing. I was drinking beet juice. I was experimenting with health.

Okay. And I'm not getting paid for this. But I'm very proud of this business. This is Ruby Jean's jucery, okay? It was a small blackie. business that was starting out. It was online only. They were shipping stuff out.

And now they have their own storefront. Hold on. Where? Hit me up. I think it's in, actually don't know where it is. How did you find them? I can't remember.

Kansas City looks like. It's in Kansas City? Oh, wow. Yeah. Why was I about to say Long Beach or something? I have no clue. I'm glad Donnie was here to help. Yeah.

So they hit me up and they sent me some juice then. Just as part of it. of a, say, hey, try this, this is, keep vitamins in you, keep your health going and stuff like that. And I started drinking the juice, the cold press juice. Now, I stopped after I got better, but they have their own, they're sipping the juice worldwide now. They're growing. They've been able to grow. That's amazing.

And so Ruby jeans, I normally put coffee in the LSU cup. But today it's going to be Ruby Jean's juicery. And shout out to them. This is a pineapple, grain apple, carrot, beet. I like beet juice. I don't, but that looks good. Oh, Daddy. Listen to that, Daddy.

Oh, father, daddy. Puppy. Okay. You know what I, the first time I drank beet juice, I didn't realize what happens. Bathroom. I thought it was about to go down. I'm not going to lie. So are we going to have to take a break in this podcast?

No, no, no, no. I'm talking about when it came out and it was rain. Or I thought it was Lance Armstrong time This is that too much When it came out and it was red It was red I thought it was Lance Armstrong time This happens all the time

Enough Like when I started taking the animal pack When you take the animal pack What's that? Oh by the way just one more time Ruby jeans jewelry Very proud of you guys Very proud of you guys

Small black on business Black on business is the blackest CEO What's that saying? For the shirt We do not negotiate were racist, actively black pants, okay, with the ruby jeans jewelry, we black owned.

And then we got on my feet, another black-owned company, Nike. Now, don't ask me to name the stuff I'm wearing. I know. My jeans are black-owned. Who made them? Half-black-owned. Who? Good American.

Oh, good American. Yes, the woman, the brain's behind it. She's black. She black? Yeah, but. No, I don't know. Damn. You're just going to discredit her like that?

No, I guess she gets credit. That's a good American is a biracial business. Yeah. It's biracial. So when I started taking the animal pack, you know, it makes your pee really like. No, I don't know these things. It makes it bright, like almost green. Well, it's vitamins, right?

Yeah. So vitamins do that. I was freaking out. I was like, I got to drink more water. You have to drink more water. Yeah, you have to flush it out. But I drank a lot of water and it was still that way. Anyway.

Well, I had a good. You did. What'd you do? Very fun weekend. Friday. I don't know. But Saturday, girls all got together, went out, Nisi Nash's birthday. It was rodeo theme. It was so much fun. It felt like a family reunion. The music was very much so like that juke joint,

kind of northern Louisiana. Like, that's what they play at my family reunion, trail riders, trail ride music. Northern Louisiana. So much fun. They had a live band. as well in addition to a DJ they taught line dancing they brought them fans out where them fans at

you know you can't do electric slides so I know you know boots on the ground I'm not electric slide okay well everybody was on the dance floor black excellence was in the building I heard you drank too much

I didn't drink too much I wasn't the one it wasn't me oh I heard about that too it wasn't me now I heard you guys were having fun now seriously we had a really really fun time

then we went and celebrated another friend's birthday, and then we just kept the night going. So you missed out. You would have had fun with us. I didn't miss out because I was experiencing my grandmother's 86th birthday. Happy birthday. Happy birthday. She's actually 87.

Mom, that's beautiful. Happy birthday to her. But I'm saying, like, you would have had fun with this group. I found the best steak in America. In Baton Rouge. In Baton Rouge. Somehow we don't believe. Well, first of all.

What? nigger. What? There's great food in Baton Rouge. That's the first time. Baton Rouge is a great, great food place. I didn't say it wouldn't.

I just wouldn't think steak. Yeah. The best steak in America is in Baton Rouge. I mean, it wasn't a steakhouse. Probably like a Longhorn, Angus. No. It's called Doe's Eat Place.

Eat Place. Doze eat place on Government Street in Baton Rouge. Me, Momone, Ebony, Nita, Uncle Hal, we all, Jasmine, my cousin Jasmine, we all went out to eat, my mom, we all went out to eat at Do's Eat Place. When you're eating the steak, you can tell the cow is nearby. How, man.

Because the steak is not the, it's both the steak, the steak, the steak is taste great, but also the, the cut of the steak is fresh. What kind of steak do you have? We had me, Ebony, and Jasmine split a porterhouse, a gigantic porterhouse. The cut of the steak was like, it was fresh. It was far on the table. Does eat place. Best steak I've had.

Wow. Okay. How do you get your steak? Medium. Okay. Yeah, medium. My grandmother had it. Did you do that before you left at Louisiana?

No. Yeah, same. It was well done until I left Texas. I came out here and, people just got super pissed. They were just like, van, don't, come on. It is better, medium.

Well, I'll tell you what. My mom makes a fantastic well-done state. That I believe. Because she tenderizes it. She tenderizes it, tenderizes it, and then she makes a well-done state. Did you know about one in three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop

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Sign up and get a $25 bonus. Offered by Fandual Prediction Markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant, 18 plus. Bonus is non-withdrawable and expires seven days after receipt. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See terms at Fanduil.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. I experienced new music this weekend as well.

New genre or do artists? There's new music. I'm transformed. Okay. I should say I've been transformed. To what? To a young nigga. Who?

Playboard card. No. I don't believe you. There's convinced, I know it's not just me, convince all of us because I don't believe you. There's no way you listen to this new album and felt that way.

I listened to the whole thing. I want to scream. You want to rage. I got the rage inside of me. That's Playboy Card. And then another nigga come on rapping. Like the Playmore Cardi's whole album, da, da, da, da, da.

on different melodies. But people were talking about the fact that they couldn't really access the music. I, for some reason, was, it put me in a trance. I was feeling it. And I was like, okay.

Oh, I, ah. And then they had some other people show up on it. A lot of features. They needed to. If that's what we were getting from Playboy Cardi, then we needed some other people to try to balance it out, which for me,

it still did not. You listen to it? I listened to it. Well, how far did you get? 30 songs, how far did you get? 30 songs, guys, but the entire album is like an hour of 15 minutes. So these songs are like an hour,

like one minute and 10 seconds. Yeah. I picked, I didn't press play and listen to the whole thing. Like I went to the ones with features because I was like, let me try this. How do you know? Because they didn't have the credits on there.

Oh, maybe you got to. They did have the credits. Not when I was listening to it. There were no credits on there. So when I got, when I first listened to it, there were no credits on there. So you pop up, you'd be like, oh, the weekend. Oh, Travis Scott, whatever. No, no, no, no.

They, no, no. They, on Apple Music. Sorry, Spotify. They have credits. All right. We aren't going to be on this bitch too long. Well, but, um. Maybe they gave me a free membership.

Yeah, I don't have a free membership either. Everybody else. Make it make sense. Really got a free, got a free membership. Make you make sense. Maybe I'll look. We'll go ahead. Uh, yeah.

Yeah. So they have, um, they have the features on that. I, this is no, this is absolutely no disc to Playboy Cardi. The music doesn't resonate with me. Oh, yeah, a lot of people are feeling that way. But it's the first time when I say that,

it made me feel old. I thought, well, maybe I just don't get it. Because there's other people who are similar, maybe not as quite as in the lane of Playboy Cardi, but like, I like Lil Uzi, for it. I like... His shit is more melodic though.

So, and that's the thing. There's, it seems, Playboy Cardi's music feels very disconnected, disjointed to me. You know, even he changes his sound from... Because who else does that? Oh, Tyler does that sometimes. Like, he sounds different on different records. But Tyler's music I'm so into and totally good.

I just can't connect to it. There's no rhyme or reason to it. And maybe that's... it. Maybe that's the genius of Playboy Cardi. A lot of people like his music, a lot of young kids, a lot of white kids like his music. When I went to Camp Flognog, he was the headliner

the second day. I left. I didn't go see it. It's... I just don't get it. Look, a lot of people were feeling this way about this album. This is what I'll say. Number one... And it's highly anticipated. So I was eager to, because it's been five years. Five years? Yes. He had an album? Yeah.

The name of the album, Spotify's most streamed album in a day since 20, in 2025 so far. Young Thug, Travis Scott, Future, Kendrick Lamar, weekend, Louis Vuitt, Skepter, and Tideale-Sign.

Are you a skeptic person? You like Skeptu? You think he's hot, sexy, man? I think he is so fun. Oh, Daddy, Lou! I don't really know his music, but I would go to a concert just to look.

Just to look at him, dripping, dripping sweat. I'll tell you this. Do you have freakouts? I think Playboy Cardi's music is understood by people who have freakouts like myself. Like how you wanted me to go berserk on the last podcast? Yeah, like I have freakouts. And I've been having these freakouts for as long as I can remember.

I don't know why they happen, right? But I'll just be like different things will make me freak out. Sometimes I'll think of like the concept of eternity. I get it. And I'll just have to scream for the top of my lungs. I get that. Or sometimes like, I used to have this alter ego.

And hold on. Let me call. I believe you had an alter ego. I believe, was this, I believe you had imaginary friends, alter egos. All of that stuff. Simply just talking to yourself. I believe all these things. Hold on for a second.

Let me see. I don't think we need it to be co-signed because I believe you. Okay. Well, I won't call because his name was Joshua. Interesting. Yeah. Why Joshua? Because you'd say it real quick.

And when did we, and when did Joshua come out? And so, and so. When did you discover Joshua? I can't remember. He was, it was like, one time I destroyed Gibral's room. This was maybe like, I was like 11. In a rage. Oh, okay.

I was like 11 years old. And I destroyed Gibreel's room. And then I said that Joshua did it. Joshua was like a part of me. Like Joshua has always been there. Wait, were you going to call Gibreel? Not Gibral. Okay, because I wanted that story.

I wanted Jabrille's reaction to. Well, he got in trouble and then Jabrille ratted me out. As he should have. Like, Jabrille got in trouble for his room being destroyed. And then he said, Van did this. And you said no. Joshua did it.

And so then, I got in trouble. I remember Jabrille, Gibral's mom called and then they were on the phone with my mom and my mom was on the phone and she just looked over at me like this and then I had to get on the phone

and apologize to Gibral and do the whole thing. You're not supposed to do that. Oh, so we mad at Gibral? We were definitely mad at Gibral. You're not going to take no fault in what Joshua did. That told me something about Jabrilla.

So you still friends with Jabrille to the state. That's my guy. It's like my brother. But I knew now that Gibral is not the right guy to to like commit a crime with. because he's a snitch. He snitched.

He wasn't supposed to snitch. First of all, it wasn't even me that did. Has Joshua appeared on the podcast? No, and I'll tell you why. I've, the, Alexa Pro suppresses Joshua a little bit. Before I was on, like, different medications, I would have random energy bursts freakouts constantly.

Like, constantly, like just, I get filled up with energy and I have to just run at full speed. Just run at full speed. Sometimes they would happen on the basketball court, and I would just run into somebody and just throw a ball at him. And you see, this is where you had.

But the whole point is this. Playboy Cardi, Playboy Cardi, that's Joshua music. That's that Joshua music. So I'm in the car, and I'm listening to it. I'm driving around. I'm like, yeah, y'a, y'y, y'y, and I'm like, I'm into it. Whatever.

So it's personal for you. It's not that you actually really enjoy it. It just allows you to tap into Joshua, really. This is why I used to listen to a lot of system of a down, too. Okay. Okay. Yes, that makes sense. Listen, I have a restless spirit at times,

so I understand the freakouts or the berserk moments. I know I don't show them on the podcast, but I do have those restless moments. Mine are different. Like, I got to get out of the house. house. Like, I have to get out and walk. I have to turn on some music, but not that type of music where I can just, like, dance and move around to. I was, like, restless in the house. Maybe it was Friday. And I was like, I want to play hide and seek? Like, that's kind of, that's... Who'd you ask

that to? Willie? So, that's so freaky, nasty. That's like, wait a minute. That's, that's so We played too. I bet y'all did. I bet y'all did. Jesus Christ. Don't turn it into something freaky. It was child like, no. I'm just having a good time.

Hide and seek. I'm having a good time. I bet you are. It's good, though. I'm glad that you're having fun. Hide and seek would be fun. It would be fun to play hide and seek, not in the freaky pajama way that y'all play.

But it would be fun to play hide and seek with all of us. We should have. We should have, every Saturday we should have grown-ups kid games. So do you know I thought about this for my 40th? I thought about having like taking it back, like us doing a childlike birthday. Yeah. Did you ever play growing up in Dallas? Did you ever play hide and go get it?

That's freaky. I was just going to leave that there. Baton Rouge. That's freaky. Baton Rouge. Hide and go get it. That's different. That was so.

It was so wrong. Yeah. Kids, though, you don't know. You don't know what's going on. More music stuff. Kanye West released a new song that has... So this is type of headline that you can't make up. Kanye West released a new song featuring North and Diddy.

It's facts. The record is called Lonely Road Still Go to Sunshine. It starts with a conversation between Kanye and Diddy. And then it's... goes into some music, which is actually good. Unfortunately. And obviously, Kim wasn't a fan of this.

There was a text message exchange where Kim said that she legally tried to block North being on the same song with Diddy. Kanye is just doing whatever he can do right now to be in people's zeit guys. Is that what you think he's doing? Oh, man. He's, I've never seen anyone

fight for relevance and attention quite like this. That's that level of artists. You, because I've seen people mention this in this debate on social. You think he's doing this for relevancy. Does Kanye need to do this? I guess that's why my first thought when I see that argument being made, my thought is, but does he have to? And if he does want it, why is he going about it in this way?

Because it's Kanye. I don't think he has to be. outrageous for attention. Despite all the problematic, racist, things that he's done, he still has a lot of fans, and people will pay attention to anything he puts out.

It doesn't have to be this. Yeah, he's reached a nearly a guru-like status to where there's a status of celebrity to where people go, they give you literally a god-like status. because it's this person has a message.

They have a way. They work in mysterious ways. Literally Kanye's fans think that he works in mysterious ways. It's what I'll say about this, though. The thing that tells me that Kanye West needs attention is the fact that he's or doesn't need attention, feels like he needs attention. Because remember, what you're saying is something different.

You're saying he actually doesn't need attention, which is true. He actually doesn't need to do anything to, to captivate people, he's kind of A-W-S. However, it might not feel like that to him. See, we know this. We know that Kanye could literally just put out great music and great stuff,

and there would be so many people out there that would be relieved. I don't think he wants you to be relieved, though. He doesn't want you to be relieved. He wants there to always be some tension. He's one of those guys that, like, legitimately, and I hate to put this way, but it's the only way I can think.

to put it. Kanye wants to culturally rape people. He wants you to say no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. He wants to force himself on you. He doesn't want it to be easy. He doesn't want your consent. He doesn't want that. He doesn't want you to love him. He doesn't want you to want to be there. He doesn't want your consent.

He wants you to have to look despite everything. He wants to, he wants you to not want to do it. but for you to have to do it because everyone else is doing it or everyone else is talking about it. And going back to the attention part of it, the thing that lets me know that is the fact that he's now starting to dis Kendrick Lamar

because that's just straight up high school girl ninth to 10th grade, jealousy and envy. That's like, it wasn't something specific with Drake. He wrote that whole thing to me, that whole email to me, And when he wrote that email to me, this is after the TMZ thing, he just breaks off into Drake in the middle of the email

and talks about how the radio is playing Drake, even though Drake's not talking about anything and how he's got records that people really need to hear, but they're not getting played because radio would rather play Drake. So I thought that there was actually some philosophical issue that Kanye West had with Drake. I thought that there was actually an issue to where he looked at Drake as a contagion that's actually negative on music and culture.

And he thought that he was a positive, right? Whatever. That's not what it was. It was just that Drake was the number one guy. And he was jealous. And you know that now because he went from revering Kendrick Lamar and exulting Kendrick Lamar to say he doesn't really like Kendra Lamar. And Kendrick Lamar is kind of whack, which is what he said.

I don't like Kendrick Lamar's music. He's a great rapper, blah, blah, blah. He said he didn't like the album. No, he said, I don't like Kendrick Lamar's music. Oh, I thought, and I thought he said, didn't he reference the album? Didn't he say something like, we didn't need a whole album that he's a great rapper, but like... But he was talking about... That was on Cardi's art.

Wow, we need him on this album. Anyway, so... But now we just know that Kanye is just like a jealous bitch. Is this his Joshua? Could be. Is he just like, whether it's for attention, whether it's restlessness, whether it's boredom in his current life? and I'm not excusing anything that he's doing, but I'm just thinking of it in this way.

I'll tell you, the song. It's a good record. I thought that was Diddy. Oh, yeah. I feel so sorry for King Holmes. Why? I feel like I've said this before on the podcast.

His entire, I feel sorry for him because he has no identities separate from his father. Even lyrically in this, he's rapping, saying certain lyrics that are from the past. Right. He sounds like Diddy. He dresses like Diddy. His cadence is like Diddy. Like everything is Diddy.

That was like, oh, I was like, I thought Diddy was just in the convo before. Diddy's actually rapping on the song. Hmm. It's King Combs. But if I'm Kim as a mother, back to the legal part of it and what's the issue, yes, the song is good, but it's super problematic. You know, Kanye West, was bitching about his daughter being on social media

and, you know, being so accessible and out there and how social media was a problem and he didn't want her. And which not wrong for, she's 11 now, but she was younger at the time. Not wrong for a parent to feel that way. But for you to have your daughter, 11-year-old daughter, on the same track as Diddy with these accusations being out there that are so outrageous. The two don't make sense.

And what I just, what I think about all this is like, yes, we're talking about Kim and Kanye fighting, but I always think about the kids. Northwest is old enough to see and know what's going on. How is this all impacting her? There are three other kids. Like, if they're not listening to it now or reading it now,

they're going to see it eventually. And I just keep thinking, I feel so bad for Kim because from what we see, she does seem to be trying to protect her kids from the rage, from the antics of their father. But at the end of the day, that's their father. Northwest clearly loves her father and adores him. And so I feel bad for Kim as a mom because she's trying to balance out her kids having a relationship with their father because they have joint custody, but then protect him from some of the things that Kanye represents or the things that he's doing. It's really sad when you break it down.

Like, yeah, we can talk about the song. Yeah, we talk about Didionic. Yeah, we talk about these two big figures going back and forth. But when you break it all down, it's so sad for the children. Maybe. Not maybe. Yeah. It's not?

You don't give a fuck. No. You don't care about the kids. I care about them as people as little babies as children. But I think that... But that's the real issue in all of this to me. Kanye has grown. The only reason why I say that, though, is because this is, I mean, I can't, I can't care about their kids more than they do.

So it's like there. Well, one seems to be caring about it in a way that the other is. It depends on the way you look at it, right? So what, by the way, I don't, I don't get into people's parenting. Like, that's a very private decision that's made. But it seems like there's a very concern. effort to make North a child star. Kim is a stage mom for sure.

Right. So then that's the way it goes. Okay. No, no, no, no, no, no. Okay. I mean, this is different. Well, I mean, if you're going to have, like, you have North doing TikToks and stuff like that with very adult artists, like Ice Spice and all of that stuff where she's. So to me, it doesn't seem like they're trying, and I'm not, once again, just from outside looking at it, it doesn't seem like they're doing anything to protect North's childhood. Nothing. Seems like, like, you don't trademark a kid's name, right? Like, it doesn't seem like they're doing anything to protect North childhood.

Fine. Because you have people who steal trademarks, who purposely go in there and will trademark Northwest name. There you go. It seemed like if you were trying to protect, once again. That is a protection. Okay, fine. I acquiesce. You know, legal ego.

It seemed like if you were trying to protect somebody's childhood, then that would involve protecting. their ability to grow and develop as a child, which you would want them to do irrespective of public opinion or irrespective of public scrutiny. Childhood, in my opinion, is, from just from my own experience as a kid, is a very awkward, very confusing, but also very wondrous time. And it seems like whenever you have celebrity,

thrust upon that, what you get is people who say, well, everything about my childhood was litigated. Everything about my childhood was corporatized or everything about my childhood was studied. Everything about my childhood was watched. I couldn't have my awkward years. I couldn't have my time just to play with friends. And that's a decision. And that's a decision that they've been making for North for a very long time. So to me, while I understand that a lot of this is unfair to North or unfair to any kid, forget about North Take North Codov. They've made the decision on both sides, mother and father, to make their child a celebrity.

And there's just a lot that comes along with that. So I'm going to disagree with you. And by no means am I a Kim Kardashian stand. But I'm going to disagree with you because I think that I don't watch the show, so I can't tell you how much North is a part of that show or not. Don't know. So I'm not going to speak to that. But as far as, like, making her this star, she's got two major celebrity parents.

From the moment she was a child, paparazzi were following her around in every step that she did. She was already a star from the beginning. She's their first child, like even people being fascinated with the name of Northwest. She wasn't going to escape. But that was part of it, though.

They leaked that name. name to TMZ. They, okay, that's fine. They leaked the name of TMZ. Fine, whatever. My point is that people were, my point is that people were following them. I'm not saying that

Kim is not a stage mom. I'll agree. But to say, but even North being on TikTok, it's Kim and North together. I think TikTok is a part of that generation, Generation Alpha, whatever. That is a part of their childhood. When you look at their TikTok,

because it pops up sometimes on mine, it's North with her mom. It's North playing with her friends. Yeah, like she might be dancing with a celebrity, but it's North being a kid. Like North is very much a kid on her TikTok. Being on TikTok is a part of that generation's childhood. So it's trademarking her name to me is a protection. And even Kim has said in these text messages when she turns 18, she gets to own it.

That is protecting your child from other people being able to own certain aspects. You see it all the time. Like even when I was trying to get my name for a website, somebody else bought bought the domain for it. Like people do that kind of stuff. So I think it's smart for her to take, to be proactive in that regard. North says she's taking an interest in music and fashion.

As a parent, that's like me being a child and saying, I have an interest in theater. And my mom putting me in children's theater, which they did not. So if her parents are taking her to fashion shows because she's interested in that, they're able to give her access to that.

I don't think that that's problematic. If she's interested in music, I don't think it's wrong for Kanye to put her on the song like he did on the last album. But this, putting your child on someone who's accused of, has allegations of harm against children is a step too far.

And I don't think that anything that Kim has done as far as, you know, putting North in the public allows this. Okay. So I'm not saying that. I think, first of all, I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that they're being irresponsible with the way that they're raising their daughter.

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that they're not protecting her as a kid. I don't think that you can rate. When I say protecting her as a kid, that means that like you can't, and that has nothing to do with them specifically. You cannot thrust a kid into celebrity life, right, in this way and still protect their childhood at the same time.

You can try, right? We had a conversation with your little white. Jalil White talked about how his parents tried. And how his parents tried was to put him into, I think they did a pretty good job. Me and Jolil be like having our little back and forth, Jalilil is my guy. That's my dude.

But they try, right? You try to send a kid to a public school. You try to do different things to keep them out of that, right? Or to normalize them. But at the same time, they're going to go to parties. They're going to be in rooms. They're going to do stuff. They are going to have to assume a certain level of adultness to be able to navigate this, right?

You're going to go places and paparazzi are going to scream out northwest, northwest, northwest, northwest. It's not going to be a situation where you can walk up and down the street with your friends and their parents like a kid. You are going to be entered into the thing that adultifies you more than anything else in this world. which is capitalism. So I'll say this last thing. Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie's daughter pledged Alpha. She just went to, she plays AKAA, right? What's her name?

Zahara. Okay. We struggle to find her name. Her parents are as famous. It's not true. That person is not famous. She's not. Her parents are as.

as famous as two people can get. They're as famous as two people can get. They made a decision to raise their children as non-celebrities. Then there are certain people who do that, and then there are certain people who don't. Like, I'm glad you knew her name, because I couldn't think of it when I was sitting here. There are certain people who choose to raise their kids as celebrities,

and then they're, I'm not saying that one is better than the other, but I'm saying that in one situation, just from knowing you have to kind of like North has been entered into the Kardashian-Gener machine and that's okay in the same way Kylie was

in the same way Kendall was in the same way all of these she's been entered into that machine because that's a legacy and a birthright so this is what I'll say against this about that one my question to you is is it

is it possible for a child to not be a celebrity to be protected if they take an interest in the arts in the same way. The Kardashians are different from the Jolie Pitts because their entire brand is putting their whole life out there. So there's an argument that could be made that it was always going to be that case for the children because, but I think with North in particular, because I can't name all the other kids, North in particular, she's also, she was the first, and then she's also taken

an interest in the arts, which for Zahara, I would say, well, what are her interests? For example, the Jolie Pit kid who dances. I see her more out there. What's her name?

I don't know. But I see her more out there. But I don't know Kim's other kids' names either. I see her more. Just because I don't know her name, I could recognize her. I know who she is because she's taking interest in dancing, so now people are always posting her dancing videos.

There's another child who's interested in theater. Angela and Jolie had her on the red carpet with her doing questions. So they're doing things that are more forward-facing. So my guess my thing is, is it if your child takes an interest in the arts, which that is more public facing, is it possible for them to not become a celebrity? This is not necessarily to me about whether or not it's good or bad to having child stars. So many of the people we love now were child stars.

Michael B. Joy was a child star. Ryan Gossin was a child star. they weren't child stars to the level of um of northwest you can make an argument that timothy shallamee who's right on the line um that he was got an early start all of that stuff what i'm saying is there's when you when you're talking about and not to belabor we can move on but i'm saying yes you want to be this thing and if you're child decides they want to do it, that's amazing. All the advantages, it's great. It's fine. No problem. What I'm saying is there is a level to that that you can't protect them. There's a level of stuff that

they're going to be. They're in the story. They're a part of the reality show story. They're a part of the thing. You've made that decision before. Once again, they leaked the kid's name to TMZ. Her birthright is to be in this stuff. Now, I hope that there is somebody who cares whether or not North just gets to play and be a kid and do all of that stuff. But you can't have it both ways. You really can't. Or let me put it to you like this. It's very difficult to have it both ways, particularly when the child themselves doesn't have a dissuble. distinct and identifiable talent. Meaning, I'll just be honest with you.

If you are an actor, if you are a piano prodigy, if you are this, that Northwest is, for the most part, famous for being the child of Kim Kardashian and Kanye West. Who also doesn't have a talent? Right, which means that her TikToks

are going to make her famous. Her saying stuff is going to make her famous. Her life is the thing that makes her famous. And so because of that, it's difficult to protect her from any of this stuff. So they put her out there. So people should be nice to kids. I also think she wants to be a star, but that's a definite argument. That's cool.

But once again, like, people should be nice to kids. Be nice to Northwest. Be nice to Blue Ivy. Be nice to the other children that are doing this type of stuff. Be nice and remember that they're kids. But at the same time, if you put your daughter on the stage and she's dancing, then people are going to be like, she can't dance.

They're going to do that. People are going to be like she can't dance. I wouldn't say that. I'm going to be like, oh, shit, look at her. Every time I see one of these kids, I think, oh my God, look how much they look like their parents and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. The same love and reverence I have for their parents,

it goes to the kid. But then it was also awesome to see Blue Ivy once she really started getting it. Yeah. So the whole thing, you could argue that, like, that's a cool little story. But people are going to be cruel. You can't protect them when they're out there.

Yeah. You can only hope that people have decency, which we know that they kind of don't anymore, you know? Kind of got off on that one, but. Whatever. We don't give a fuck. That's what we talk about. Donnie.

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Speaking of parenting and celebrity, Anthony Mackey was on the pivot podcast recently where he opened up about how he raises his kids and it caused some online fervor. Let me read some of the things he said and then we can get you guys' take on the backlash. He said, my oldest gets it, my 15-year-old. He tells the other ones, he's like, yo, don't make dad mad.

Once you get one right, he's going to straighten the other ones out. Then he said, so it's just this thing that in the past 20 years, we've been living through the death of the American male. They have literally killed masculinity in our homes and our communities for one reason or another. But I raise my voice to be young men. And however you feel about that, you feel about that. Every time I left for a job, I tell my 15-year-old, you're the man of the house. You make sure these doors are locks. Every night, this alarm is on.

you text me or you call me every night before you go to bed, you wake up. I love that because we're men, Mackie said. He also talked about them being respectful and respecting women and opening doors and whatnot. And a lot of the backlash, I think, was accusations of homophobia. Despite that, the fact that on that said podcast on the pivot, he also talked about how he has a gay brother and he grew up in the 80s and 90s having homophobic views. but he took roles early on in his career to kind of fight that and to learn more about his brother's experience growing up as a gay man.

What'd you guys think? Did you see the clip? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Watched it. Did you have a problem with anything that he said? I had a problem with what he said after. What he said?

So if you just watch the clip, I don't think there's anything wrong with what he's saying and how he raises his men. To be men and to act like men and his morals and values of what he believes the man is internally. Are you okay? You spill water all over yourself? Why did I do that?

I don't know. I'm just making sure you really looked helpless for a second. Make sure you're okay. Filling the water. Go ahead. Be a man, clean yourself. That's true. No, I don't have a problem with that.

But then as he continues to talk, he dips into what he also thinks men are supportive. post to look like. That's where I think he lost people. That's where I think it's problematic. He talks about going to Europe and talks about European man, talks about how they dress. One of the guys says, oh, oh, they in the skinny jeans? And he's like, yeah, you can't do that. Like they, as if to be a man, you also have to outwardly dress and appear a certain way. That, to me, is problematic. Not homophobic, but problematic. As if, oh, if you wear this type of, it felt like the, you wear pink, you're not masculine type conversation is what it was dipping into. But as far as

him holding his sons accountable and teaching them to, you know, take care of women and have manners and take control and to lead is what I was getting. Why is that so problematic? My friend's grandfather, when he was living, used to tell her, he'd be like, these niggas now are half raised. and I will tell you in dating relationships. I have, I struggle to find men that I feel like embody the type of man my father is. Say more. And when I say that is like I revered my father so much. I love the way he treated my mom.

I loved watching the way he left house, the way he took care of us, way he treated us like young women, but also encouraged us to, you know, stand on our own two feet and to, you know, be independent and not lean on someone, but also to, but that you can and be soft in certain ways as well. I was, like, the moment I started to date, I was like, I want somebody who treats my mom or treats me like my dad treats my mom. I want somebody who stands for something who represents, who takes control. A lot of times people don't. think I like that because I am so independent or outspoken. But the key thing is my dad made my mom feel safe. I want to be with somebody who gives me that, who provides a place where I feel safe enough

to let my guard out and to be soft. And we've kind of touched on that before. That's what I feel like Anthony Mackie's talking about right here. He's talking about preparing his young boys to conquer the world in a way where they can lead, where they have, you know, know, just the little things where they're, you know, making women feel safe or they're taking care of them. And I don't understand why something like that is so problematic. And if it is, then I think that that's something that you have to look within of what offended you about that. Out here dating, I have seen men coddled way too much. And this, the statements that Anthony Mackey is making here are not coddling men. It's not giving them excuses. I have seen them, you know,

in certain ways as women, we do take care of men, but almost like to a point where that's so lost that they expect you to be mommy-like to men. I've seen a lot of that. And Anthony Mackey's statements here are fighting against that. What is wrong with that? Now, I do have a problem with the,

you got to look a certain way to be a man. Right. That's problematic to me. But what he was saying here, why are people offended? Maybe you can tell me something different. Well, a couple of things. Number one, I think that what people have a problem with more than anything is cosmetic manhood.

Well, that's the part I have a problem. Right. But I think that goes a bunch of different ways. I think cosmetic manhood can be perceived or misperceived as a man having to fit into a certain aesthetic to being approached as a man. that then de-emphasizes some of the things that he's talking about, right? Because if a man is about, if a man is about being responsible, providing safety, being accountable, protecting, providing, well, then you can do those things in a leotard. Like, if that's what it's really about, right, then it doesn't matter. you can do those things of any sexual orientation.

You can do those things wearing mascara. You can do those things with, you know, a hair transplant. Like, you can do those things anyway, if that's what you're talking about, if that's what it really is. Now, if you're doing all those things and you're still not a man because you don't fit a certain aesthetic or you don't look like the traditional version of a man, that's when all of the rest of these things kind of get intertwined.

Like, what is a real man? Somebody, some people are going to say, if you do all of that stuff and you're not with a woman, you're not a real man. If you do all of that stuff and you wear a purse or you paint your nails, you're not a real man. Now look, I'm not saying that any of those things are wrong or any of those things you're doing it. I'm saying that when we are actually litigating,

what masculinity is, Jason Wilson, the cave of Adelham, D.C., his idea of comprehensive manhood. We never talk about degrees of manhood that are different. For example, if there is a safe space for your sons, it has to be a safe space for them to cry.

If there is a safe space for your sons, it has to be a safe space for them to emote. there has to be a safe space for your son to come tell you not just dad I got a D on my chemistry assignment there has to be a safe space for your son to come tell you dad I'm gay so a safe space is a safe space to me where people feel empowered to be themselves

and to be who they are and to understand themselves around you I think a lot of those things have been muddled particularly by Twitter 162, 182 character limit, man, if you do this, can you be this? Right. So when he's coming out and saying all of this stuff, people are saying it's so traditional,

it can't be good. Right? I was raised by a man who was pretty traditional in the way that he wanted me to be. He wanted me to be accountable for my words. He wanted me to be able to do things he couldn't do, which was apologize. But there were other parts of me that he couldn't access.

He couldn't access the fact that I did not want people to be afraid of me. He couldn't access that, like, he walked into a room and he wanted everybody to be like this. And I walk into a room, and I want everybody to be like, oh, Vann's here. We can let out, we can let down and have a good time, and Vann accepts us all, and Vann will protect us no matter what. And he couldn't access us. that. You know, he couldn't access

parts of me that were different. Like, Ebony would have friends that would come over and we would play the game. These guys were gay. Rest and peace to Dominique, like, other guys that would come over, we would play the game. They were gay. I didn't. We'd play in the game.

My sister was gay, she had gay friends, and those people would come over and they were my friends. My dad was never mean to these people, but he would always go, why was I so accepting of all of that stuff? It's just because it's just kind of how it was. I wasn't always the most elevated, evolved.

I'm not saying that because me and my friends were as toxic as it came, but I was initiated very early into kind of understanding what people were going through. So there's a lot of that part of it that he struggled with. So what we're really talking about to me in this entire conversation when he says this, is trying to understand what comprehensive manhood really looks like and what it looks like to actually be someone that doesn't just look and act like a strong man. And part of the imagery that we've gotten

in the last 25, 35 years are gentlemen who project strength. They project aggression, they project money, they project all it is, but some of them have a lot of kids that don't see them. Some of them

put their family in positions where they could be harmed, right? Because if you're doing all of this work in a certain area and people are taking shots at you, well, they're taking shots at whoever you with. Rest and peace to little Ronnie and especially to his daughter, but that's kind of what the streets bring. If you are in the streets and you got your little girl riding with you,

well, if you're a target, then she's a target. And so some people, the way I will look at it is, and the way I do look at it as is like, yeah, you could be a man and you could be doing all of this stuff, but how safe is your existence for your family? Like how safe is what you're doing? How much of who you are inherently protects them? And that's a way that you choose to live your life as well.

So we're asking all of these questions and we kind of are stumbling on what the answers are because it's like, sure, is Anthony Mackey raising ridiculously respectful and amazing young man? Probably so. But then is he telling them that they can't wear skinny jeans

and that they, okay, well, if that's the case, then now he's doing something right, but he's also perpetuating a myth about manhood. Correct. And so we're trying to figure out what's more important. Would you rather have a really dependable man that's a little toxic or have a toxic man that's a little dependable.

So, so, and we're... I think everybody's a little toxic. Yeah. I think everybody's, I think what I hated so much about when he dipped into, you know, all a European, but a European man when I'm in Europe, I'm side-eyeing them. It's that I was looking at a group of men all similar, all black, all around the same age. And those are some good brothers. Not denying...

Those are some great brothers. What I'm saying is there was a commonality there and it's a generational thing. I thought as soon as I watched it because they were laughing. They were like, oh yeah, better not have no skinny jeans on. Oh, yeah. And I thought that's a generational thing.

Like it's toxic. It's something that has to be unlearned. I wish so bad that one of them would have been like, well, basically having the conversation that we're having now. And you have to unlearn some of these things that have been taught to them and pass that down to them within the community. And when I saw them all laugh,

I thought, oh, we were doing so good. But then there's still a part that's toxic. Well, we're not going to be perfect, right? I know we're not. So we've got to continue the conversation. Yes, but that wasn't homophobic. And, like, I know that that was litigated, like litigated lot on social media,

but it was extremely problematic. And it had underlying things. Well, I mean, look. I'll put it like that. The traditional manhood, that you liked, that you like, within. Within. But I get it. But if you get a lot of those guys talking, their manhood was a lot about their nose, what they won't do.

Like, I've told you the story about the date before, right? Man, where do I, what date? What date? The date. What day? How about my dad told me to pay for a woman's food? You told me that story, right? But think about what's in there. there. So if people don't remember correctly, my dad would be like, all right, look, you're going out and taking this little girl out, how much you think it's going to be? I was like, I'll probably $30, $45 for both of us to eat. But God bless Baton Rouge, because that was true. And he goes, all right, I'm going to give you $100. When the bill come, don't even look at it. Just put the $100 in there. If you sit back and you look at the bill and you're like, oh, my God, what she's thinking is,

are you okay? Is everything okay? And if she, if she's going to ask questions about whether or not, and it's just the way my dad is, I'll just tell you exactly what he said. If she got to ask questions about whether or not you could feed her, she's going to ask questions about whether or not you could clothe her. She's going to ask questions about whether or not you can fuck her. She's going to ask questions about whether or not you could do anything. You just have, there's to be no question, boom, you got it.

That assumes a lot. But that's the way he looked at the world. But that thing, that whole deal, it assumes so much about, traditional relationships between men and women. Now, it's stuck with me. I would rather, like, if you bring all your friends to dinner, I'll pay for all your friends just so your friends go, hey, she's with somebody that doesn't have to...

And they would. Yeah, just so your friends go, hey, she's with somebody that's got her held down. I would rather, and then me and you can talk about on a ride home, amen. Between us. But in public, I'm only going to show between us. you know, Carol came to dinner and she had like six mojitos. All right, don't bring her no more.

And then we could laugh about it. But I'm not going, in public, I have to show that you're, that you're taking care of. But once again, that assumes that women have to be taken care of. That is, that dynamic assumes that women are to be taken care of. And most men that assume that women have to be taken care of and are to be taken care of, also assume other roles and responsibilities for women that women aren't always comfortable with. Not there yet, yeah.

Okay. We aren't, we haven't mastered it. We never will. Right. We never will. But, you know, for me, I like to know, you frowned it perfectly when you said that you got me money. I like to know you can do it.

I don't necessarily have to see you always do it. Right. Right. My father was very toxic. but he, you know. My dad is toxic in ways to. Like, it's a generational thing. That's why I say.

And that's why, and that it's interesting talking to somebody younger because I see it, I see the generational difference. Yeah, I get it. Okay. All right, list the shifts. Yeah, policy shifts. Oh, darling, not saying move on. No, no, no.

I just, I felt the vibes shifting, so I tried to shift it as well. Come on, Doug. Trump recently on Saturday, he signed the funding bill, and he thanked the Democrats who joined the Republicans to approve the continuing measure. That comes after the Senate passed a bill on Friday, just hours ahead of that deadline. We got 10 senators who joined the Republicans in voting

to move forward the stopgap spending bill. Let's go through the senators, and then let's get some reactions. Chuck Schumer, John Federman, Catherine Cortez, Brian Shats, Dick Durbin, Kirsten Gillibrand,

Gary Peters, Maggie Hassan, Jean Hachine, and Angus King of Maine. First of all, I want to say something real quick,

and I hope he's listening to the podcast right now. Nick May, you make shit, okay? He's so messy. Nick May.

But I love him so much. My brother. Nick May, that text you just sent me here, Rachel, you ain't shit, man. No words. No words. We're not going to talk about what Nick did.

Nick May. You ain't shit, dog. All right. All right. Okay. What does this really mean? Okay, so the vote that was had last week was a cloture vote. Clotcher expedites this bill and moves it past the filibuster, meaning that they needed

a simple majority to vote for the bill rather than the 60% that that you'd need to avert the filibuster, which they probably wouldn't have gotten. But I don't know, maybe they would have gotten it now when you look at the fact that 10 Democrats voted yes to culture. Now, different people on this list

had different reasons for voting for this. Let's tell people what this means. Okay, really quickly. This was a vote for the continuing resolution that continues the spending levels of Biden's last budget because the Republicans don't have their budget proposal ready yet. They'll probably be voting on that at the end of the year in September. So this is going to be a stopgap spending bill that keeps the government open, but then kicks this can down the lane until later on this year. It is not a clean CR, what they call, which means. that it's exactly the same as the passier.

It is new and different in ways because Mike Johnson and the rest of the Republicans wanted to make sure that some of the philosophical changes that Doge is making and that the president has are reflected in the budget that they are passing. Because if they're not, then they go, okay, well, Doge is doing all of this work. but essentially just refunding all of the stuff that the Biden administration budget would have funded last year. So they had to put some different stuff

into the CR. Why is this so important? It's important because this was symbolic more than it was anything else. This was the only, not symbolic, this was functional more than symbolism. A lot of the things that the Democrats can do right now are rhetorical.

This is actually one that could inject some real peril into Trump's agenda. Meaning, if the government is shut down, that's a huge deal under an administration. You have a government shut down that shuts down a lot of things.

If you're shutting down funding and payments of federal workers, you're setting down, like, wiretaps, you're shutting down funding Ukraine and Israel and a lot of ways like that. A lot of stuff is being interrupted. And it is always a sense of

uncomfortability, should I say, for the administration to have. government shutdown. The question is whether or not the Republicans would have been saying, hey, the Democrats are in fault for the government shutdown or whatever ramifications come along with it. And for the people that get emiserated by a government shutdown, whether or not the Democrats would have to wear that in a way that was damaging to not only their policy platform,

but to their electoral chances, right? That was the whole thing. If you enter into a shutdown, who gets blamed for it and how much does it disrupt people's lives? The House Democrats were ready to go for this. They voted overwhelmingly for it with only one person voting against voting not in favor of the the CR or voting in favor

of the CR. Only one person voted. Right. They voted overwhelmingly for it. They were pretty united under leader Jeffers. Got to give them credit for that. Chuck Schumer, who was a leader in the Senate on, I think it was Thursday night, Friday was the vote, came out and

gave a pretty impassioned plea about why he was anti-government shutdown. And he talked about the fact that they had bad choice and worst choice. Bad choice was to vote for the CR, and the worst choice was to shut down the government, which is terrible.

This basically illustrates a huge rift in a Democratic Party, a party that, according to New Matrix, has historically low approval rating with Americans. A gigantic rift in a Democratic party. party about strategy in the way that they fight the Trump agenda. Some are saying we're going to the mattresses. We're going all out. We're using any lever of power that we have to fight this.

Some are saying that we are making legislative choices that are based upon what we think are good for constituents. And if that means empowering Donald Trump, Mike Johnson and Elon Musk, we will do that because the other option is much worse for our people. There are certain people on this list that I kind of understand the reasons why they voted the other. Brian Shats of Hawaii. A lot of federal workers in his district in Hawaii, tremendous amounts of them. And maybe he's hearing directly from his constituency that they don't want a government shut down. That's me being very generous to him.

Minority leader Schumer should be primary. And the rest of the people that are here should be deeply, deeply, deeply criticized and put under a tremendous amount of pressure from the party because they're not getting it. Gary Peters is not... I get it. They're not getting it. They're not understanding where people feel like they are

and where government currently resides. They are up there doing business as usual on the hill. Well, when we are looking at it as a blood feud for the near present and far future of the country, most people who caucus with the left are empowering the Democrats to go to the mattresses in order to stop, must, and Trump. There's uncertainty in the market. There's uncertainty on the world stage.

I had a youngster asked me if Japan was going to get nuclear weapons. I'm like, why are you asking me that? And they're like, I'm asking you that because I saw that if the United States decimates their relationships abroad with traditional allies, that those allies might be forced into nuclear proliferation. And if they are, that means a new arms race because they can't depend on the nuclear deterrent from the United States.

That's a far-off Van Laithen in 1991 type of concern. However, we're looking at concerns from people all the way up from the economy right in front of them to foreign wars, to the deportation of people. that they share their communities with. We're looking at a complete destabilization of American life and a new domestic order, a new world order, all crafted in Trump's image.

And the Democrats, at least the Senate Democrats, don't seem to get how people who have empowered them feel about that. That's what this vote signals to me. That's what this vote signals to me. the Republicans look at the way that this goes. Trump is terrifying people, tariffing nations. He's trying to change the financial realities

of America domestically. What does he tell his people? He goes, he won't rule out a recession. He won't rule out economic hardship. And he says, hey, there's going to be a transition time. Things might be hard. Things might be hard. But in a long run,

they're better with me. And he gives them that message. The Democrats say, if things have to be hard, we can't do it. If things have to be hard, a government shutdown is going to be so hard that we can't do it. If things have to be hard, we can't do it. Like, we can't, there's no way that a fight is supposed to be easy or without pain. No one is telling them that we're not willing to feel a little pain. no one is saying that

no one is saying hey do the easy thing to do what people are saying is in this case sharpen your sword and nick somebody pinch kick somebody in the shit

and they don't have the backbone to do it yeah it definitely signifies that I completely stop down stop down it's allergy time look guys it's allergy time I'm in hell right now I don't take any of them.

Well, that's what saved me. Okay. Go ahead. As a person. I apologize. I agree with you. Everything you're saying is right. Trump and his administration have completely, or the Republicans in the Congress, I should

just say, have allowed them to completely take away their legislative power. And the Democrats had an opportunity. What little power they had to fight back or to at least show people who vote in the same way that they do, that they're willing to fight to your point and that we do have legislative power and we're going to use it, and instead they jumped on board,

or those 10 did. And the one. To me, what it also shows is that Chuck Schumer and people who, the 10 senators we talk about and the one representative in the House, are more concerned about their public image

in the idea of looking like, of holding on to the old school traditional value of, we're trying to all get along, we're trying to work together. They're more concerned with that than they are with the long-term effects that the Trump administration is going to have on the American people. And I think part of that is because they are older and they know that their time is limited and maybe they just don't feel like they don't have to, but they're so stuck in the past, it's almost like it's blinding them from the future. What they're doing is normalizing the behavior of the Trump administration and the Republicans.

By them voting in that way, they're saying it's bad, it could be worse, but you're normalizing it. What happens the next time this comes up? Do you now put your foot down? Is that too much? Or do you continue to normalize it because you keep saying a government shutdown is so bad? We've seen what Trump and Doge have done so far with cutting things that seem to be more related to a cultural war than actually doing things that are, you know, cutting the budget because they're trying to allow the, they're going to extend the 2017 track,

Trump tax benefits, tax cuts, and some more. So they're trying to offset it, but they're doing it by cutting things that have kind of been a back and forth between the Dems and Republicans rather than actually making cuts that are going to really balance things out and allow and take some relief off the taxpayers, them allowing them to, because even in this, even what they're proposing, there's going to be cuts funding for health care, cuts funding for veterans, cuts funding for nutritional assistance to children and families. They're voting for that by jumping ship on the other side. And I just don't understand. I have yet to see an explanation. And I read the opinion piece that Chuck Schumer put out as to why

he was going to allow this to pass to avoid a government shutdown. I still am not seeing anything that is so convincing that shutting the government down is worse than voting for this, which does, which was a completely partisan. Keeps Trump's agenda on track. Keeps Trump's agenda on track. It was completely partisan. It had no input from the Dems what they're trying to move forward. And they've already cut so much and are going to continue to do that for things that

complete, that affect the American citizens and people and Democrats. So I don't understand still, after reading everything, after listening to how these senators decided to move this forward, I'm still not understanding how it's worse. Both are going to hurt, but I don't understand how it's worse. I'm not convinced. And I feel like the next time this comes up and we're at a stand still again with the possibly facing a government shutdown, what's to stop them? At what point do we say, this is enough, we're going to use our power to fight the government shutdown. I don't get it. I'll say this real quick before you move on.

We'll get maybe a little deeper into this on Thursday. John Fetterman, just put a suit on and join the Freedom Caucus. I'm sick of the grift. I'm sick of the bullshit. You make me sick, John Fettterman. Put a suit on, join the Freedom Caucus. Donnie, make sure you clip this. John Fetterman is the biggest fucking phony that I've seen in all of my time.

of poorly following American politics. I've never seen someone dupe and mislead a constituency as much as John Fenerman did from the time that he was running to who he is now. It's a gigantic, fucking funny, and he is emblematic

of what's wrong with the Democrats. If you get rid of the fettermen's in your party, then you'll be better off. He's essentially Joe Manchin Jr. at this point. It makes me sick. I just want to talk about something because a friend brought this to my attention. And it just really made me think that when it comes to domestic violence in our community, I just don't feel like it gets enough media attention.

And I just feel like we don't talk about it as much as we should. and I don't know if that's a form of protect. I don't know the underlying issue. I don't, like, even in my family, there's history of domestic violence. I didn't learn about it until I was much older. I'm sure out of having respect for those individuals in my family, that maybe they didn't want me to look at them a certain way. But protecting and not talking about it keeps perpetuating it or we normalize it, right?

Talked about this in a different topic on the show. We normalize these behaviors and we allow it to continue. Recently, there was a murder suicide in Fairfield out here in California. It was a sore, young. She was shot by her husband who she was trying to leave, right? She was leaving him, told him she wanted to separate, shot her, shot himself. Three kids, now orphans, war to the state. I don't know the history of it or whatever, but I just want to bring it.

Like, it really made me think we have to talk about this. And if there's signs or if you know somebody who needs help, maybe they're listening to this podcast, maybe you share this with someone else. Donnie will input here, like a hotline you can call, reach out to someone. I just, we have to not keep it a secret. We have to talk about it.

We have to protect each other and recognize the signs when there is domestic violence because we have to prevent lives being lost, children being orphaned. It's just I see it more. The more I talk to my friends, they have stories of a friend whose mom or maybe that friend went through it

and we're just, it's just a conversation. I still feel like we're having enough. I agree. Very well said. This is what I'll say. Well, part of this has to do with what I think are conversations that are not happening between men. And let me say what I mean.

Between men? Between men. Women, and this is a gross generalization, you guys check up on each other. To a degree sometimes that makes me uncomfortable. But like you guys will see from what I've seen, the women in my life should I see. You guys will see a friend doing something that you think is wrong. And you'll be like, hey, you deserve better, you should be doing better, you should do something, blah, blah, blah. Like you guys are always the way I would say in each other's business.

If you think that there's a reason to be there. A lot of times with men, we stay out of what's going on in another man's family. We say I've got what's going on with another man's situation or household. Not as much with the kids. If we see you treating your kids or the kids will say something, between men, what's happening between men and their women, we typically will, or at least the way I was raised, will stay out of people's business.

They fight and they go get back together, whatever, whatever. I think manhood now needs to be a challenge. We talked a little about this with Anthony Mackey. You have to play some away games. if you're talking about manhood and keeping society safe, keeping women and children safe, you have to play some away games, not just home games.

You're going to have to get involved in the lives of young men that aren't your sons. You're going to have to get involved in the protection of families that aren't yours. Because the only way to have this conversation is to have it outside of your household. Because there has to be, there has to be, should I say, a societal and cultural understanding of, one, what abuse is,

two, what someone who is suffering abuse looks like. And three, how we get people out of abuse of cycles, or else it goes on forever, and we never get a conversation to really wrap our arms around it. Man, if you care about community, if you care about culture, if you care about the advancement of black people, you have to care about family violence, violence against women, violence against children. It's a part of it all because once that gets injected into someone, when someone is the victim of that, it just changes the way they approach life and the way they approach living. So it's incredibly important. We'll put in the notes a number or website to be able to report domestic violence and seek help.

And then also we'll put in the notes the GoFundMe to support the children who just lost both parents. Insane. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows Winter is the MVP and make it a mess. You don't need weather tech floor liners in the summer, unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner. Or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors.

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So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. Bring in on. Look, we've been talking a lot about Orange. You guys, okay? And I realize I don't know shit about R&B. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry for everything that I said and everything that I did. Ian wants to come on and talk about R&B. I don't know anything about R&B. I want to ask Ian whether or not he thinks LeBron James on PEDs too. Like, bringing Ian on right now. I don't like, this is an impromptu crossover. Can we talk R&B podcasts and higher learning with Ian Vaughn. Ian Vaughn is his name.

Bring them up, Dottie. What's up? Ian, what's up? What's up? What's up? Hi, Ian. Hi, Rach. Hi, Ian.

So, me and you had a conversation about R&B. I've said some things that you think are wrong. First of all, tell me the ways that I've been wrong about R&B music. Yeah, first I just need you guys to just stop, okay? I have not been that bad, Ian. Damn. You're worse. It's been bad.

First of all, the one take here, DeAngelo is not Neo-Soul. Like, what? That's Van. That's all Van. I said that. Yeah, that was definitely Van. Let me say this. R&B music is like a field, right?

A field of flowers. It's so many different sub-genres and different, you know, styles of R&B, progressive R&B, Neo-Soul, Soul, standard R&B, hip-hoping. I mean, it's so many different things we can name it. You know, it's all of the bedrock of, you know, black music or whatnot. So it's hard to really categorize and separated, but Van mentioned Kenny Latimore.

Kenny Latimore is not a neo-soul artist. He is an amazing art. First of all, R&D artist. That's the same thing. First of all, this is what I'm saying. A lot of people hit me up. Antoinette from Arunda Quirles,

which is one of the, it's the leading biracial podcasts in the world. There's several biracial podcasts out there. Shout out to all of them. There are a lot of biracial podcasts out there. Around the Way Curls is one. Horrible Decisions is a great, I love... They changed the name.

They changed the name. Was it now? But Weezy and Mandy know how much I love them. I love them. Yeah, shout out to Mandy. Louisiana and Mandy know how much I love them. They have changed decisions. There's rebrand.

They're just, they're moguls. But very, very important biracial podcasts, Antoinette and Panic Face. They do a fantastic biracial podcast over there. if she got super mad at me, because she hits me up and she goes, how could you say DiAngelo is not Neo Soul? I didn't look at Neo Soul as that when I was listening to DeAngelo, it was like 95, right? It was like 95, 96.

I had people that produced on DeAngelo albums, hit me up and go Van. We coined the phrase Neo Soul for DeAngelo. He's the father of Neo Soul. I was looking at Neo Soul as the people with their heads wrapped and they walking around the park in Philly and they're singing, and they're doing all of that stuff. So when you tell me...

The fact that you've reduced it to that, please explain. Please explain me. Absolutely. First of all, neo soul means new soul. So we can go all the way back. First of all, Neo soul means new soul.

Nigger, I know what neo? But you know. You may not know, but you're informing the audience incorrect. So we think about Tony, Tony, Tony. They are really like the fathers, if you ask me, of Neal Soul. It wasn't necessarily called that specifically, but that's what they were doing in the 80s and on to the 90s, you know, rest and peace, Duane Wiggins. You know, so that, you know, and that come all the way from, you know, from the 70s to the Al Greens, the Curtis Mayfields, that's all soul music that evolved into what we call Nealso of the DeAngelo, the Maxwell's, you know, fast forward to the music soul childs and so forth, you know, the Indiorees and all the rest of those amazing artists.

So it's hard to, you know, when you just, you just be blaring stuff out. You know what I mean? I'll tell you all lot of time. You guys know R&B music. Howl at your boy? Okay.

I'll let you boy. All right. You can talk about R&B music. Okay. Who's the best? Who's the sole artist now? Like, you know, I would say someone like Pliotle soul would be,

she's a, from the UK. She's an amazing soul artist. I would say Alex Eisley is amazing artist. she's kind of neo soul. These are all just soul artists doing a progressive R&B, alternative R&B.

So that's all under that same umbrella of Neo Soul. But artists like that, I would say. But you told me on the phone that Tony, Tony, Tony invented New Jack Swing. Well, I didn't say they invented it. What I mean is, no, listen, Teddy Riley coined it as he's the name New Jack Swing. But they came out at the same time.

Tony, Tony's first album was like 87, 80. You said Tony, Tony, Tony, and then I said, I thought Teddy Riley invented New Jack Swing. And I said, listen to what I'm saying. Listen to what I'm saying. I don't believe Teddy Riley invented New Jack Swing. I think he coined it. He's popularized for it. And he is, I mean, obviously, Teddy Riley is one of the greatest of all time.

He's popularized for it. But there were a number of different artists and producers at that time doing that swing. If you really want to keep it a book and go all the way back for the historians out there, that swing sound at boom, boom, check, that boom to boom check. That comes from James Brown. So you go, these beats and rhythms, they use and they sampled in the 80s

with electronic sounds, and that's how you got the hip-hop beats over those type of swings, and they called it New Jack Swing. So you can play a Tony, Tony, Tony, Tony, album from 88, 87, 88. It's the same time guy comes out. It's the same thing.

And they just didn't call it New Jack Swing. So what? So then who is your Mount Rushmore of Neal? Oh, great. Yeah. Who? Oh. Well, I would say my favorites. I would say DiAngelo. I would say Maxwell. I would definitely say Indi. And Erica Bidu. Okay, we got two right. You got two right. So no music soul child.

Can you talk about that? Listen, music Soul Child is amazing. And honestly, he probably has the best three album, first three album catalog out of really all of these guys. Like, if it's arguable, that's an arguable thing. He had an amazing run. I was at a music show last year in L.A. and it was sold out, like, with a bunch of young people and they're still singing all the songs.

So it was amazing. So I do love him. He could be on someone. He's not on mine. I would say he would be like number five or something, maybe five or six. But my top four, my top four, Mount Rushmore, DeAngelo, Maxwell,

Indi, Re, Erica, Bidoo. And if you want to put Lauren Hill, she's kind of hip-hop, R&B, so neat. She's kind of wrapped up all in there. She would be my number one, but she's kind of, you know, multifaceted. So what makes something- I don't consider her neo-so. Who? Erica, bydo?

Of course, Erica. She's on my restaurant. He said Lauren Hill. What? I'm saying that's, you know, she's packaged different, but I hear you. What makes something Neo-Soul? What is Neo-Sole even mean? Because I don't even think I knew what it meant.

I thought Neil-O-D-O-W was. You didn't know what it meant. You need to say that. bright colors and all of that. And head wraps. Like, what? That has nothing to do with the music. Like, soul life.

Because all these people had soul and their name, too. Music soul child. It was all, there was all, Neo Soul became something, by the time I was on it, I didn't know it was Neo-So. I never would have thought Maxwell was Neil-So. I put Maxwell with Kenny Latimore.

No. You had listened to Early Maxwell. Van thought Neo-So was women with hair all over the place, not grooming, you know, wild. That's what that's what they thought. I never thought that was. See, how did we just say about the sisters? We're going to talk about what you put in the group text that time.

You want me to bring that up? No, let me and live. Relax. Okay, okay, okay. All right, look. Oh, first of all, real quick, for Rachel, what's my alter ego's name? Joshua. I wish he would have named somebody else.

Wait until you hear the conversation about Josh. I talked about Joshua earlier. Yeah, stay away from Joshua, Rachel. Sadly, I think I'm coming to him a couple of times. Yeah, stay away from Joshua. Do you think LeBron James is on PEDs? Ooh, you know, honestly, man, he's on something. He's on something.

I don't know what he's on, but he's on something. I can't say that, but to play the way he's playing, and, I mean, he is, you know, in terms of the athlete, he's the greatest athlete we've seen on the basketball court in terms of longevity and all of that. You know, I have him in my top three, and he would be number three on my list. But he might be, man.

I don't know, man. I just don't know. A lot of people are wondering, rather not LeBron's on PEDs right now. I just wanted to throw that it in. Let me ask you, we talk about Playboy Cardi at the top of the show. Thoughts on the album.

That's where Joshua came out. Joshua likes to listen to Playboy Cardi. I'll be honest with you. I haven't heard the album to really give it a real, opinion just yet. I don't, I'm not that big a fan. I'm not that bigger fan of Play Bar Cardi anymore.

Anymore. Why? Yeah, I used to, I used to like, like, the earliest stuff, like, you know, woke up to niggas talking like me. I used to like that. You know what I'm saying? But, like, now it's just too far for my taste. It's too far gone.

Yeah. For my taste, yeah. What about that S.V. Haley? You fuck with him? I fuck with Sve Haley. Shout out to my-shout. Shout out to my nephew. Shout out to my nephew.

Shout out to my nephew. That's Gino's son Okay He's a rapper Yeah he worshiped the devil Does Gino now? Yeah SV.

Haley SV. Haley was worship me. Bro Shout to Sv Haley He's the talented artist You want to see We'll put a picture

We'll put a picture up SV Haley for everybody Go support my nephew man, he's finding itself But you know Like, Sammy Davis Jr. worshiped the devil. But then he came out of it. It's not, you know, it's not like a...

He worshipped the devil for a little while, Sammy Davis Jr. He did. He did. There's redemption for him. There's redemption for him out there. S.V. Haley already said he don't do that no more, but for a second, he was, he was, he was worshipping the devil.

So I'll shout out to Esvvvvian. The music is good, though. Like, you know, if you want to spend some time with Belsabub. Oh my God. Before we go, before we go, I want to ask you about, because this made me start listening to some old R&B

because I went back. And so I did a whole mint condition retrospective. Yeah. Bro. Nobody's really fucking with men condition, bro.

Like, in a real way, Men condition is amazing. Men condition is not just good, not just great. Amazing. Mink condition is a bunch of musical gods, bro. I listen to MENT Condition all weekend. Yeah, Stokely, the lead singer, is literally in a lot of people's top five male vocals.

Oh, just like, just singing. You would send me swangin? Yeah, that dude can sing his ass off. Okay, we're about to go. Give us a little, give us a little Mn Condition before we go for the people. Sing a little bit for him, Ian, because in, so this is, I just want to put, I want to say this real quick. To all my homies out there, to Tank,

to, who else, to PJ Morton, to all of my homies out there that I know that are singers, right? Ian Vaughn from the Can We Talk R&B podcast, says straight up, he is the throat goat of R&B. He's the best singer. He said he's the best singer. The Throat singer. The throat.

That's Ian. So I want you to go under Ian. Did you coin that term? Ian. Ian said he got the best pipes. He got the best pipes. So Ian is hashtag the throat goat of R&B.

So y'all got to go under Ian's shit on on Instagram and go hashtag throat ghost. Let's shout out. He'll goad of R&B. But Ian says he's the best singer. So tank all of them. Everybody. This is the best singer.

in R&B, in, give them a little something to prove. First of all, first of all, that setup was crazy. I denounce the term throw goat.

That is crazy. Right. That is crazy. Second, no, I do not think I'm the best singer out of all these guys. Everybody is just named,

I am a huge fan of. He's a liar. You know, you guys know who banned it. When we off the podcast, I'll ask him, and he'll be like, yeah,

sing better than these niggas. So what? This is the gauntlet. This is the gauntlet. Listen. I want to give your best melodies right now. We're going to put this on the ground. And we're going to start.

I've always wanted to start this. We're going to start a singing war. A war of singers. Okay. Like, give them your best little runs right now. All we're going to do is this. Like, I'm not, you know, this is not a singing contest. And these guys are amazing.

It's, you know, we're not going into that. I will say this. Tap into the Can We Talk R&B podcast. I do appreciate y'all for having me on. And, you know, this is an awesome opportunity just to really, for all R&B lovers. My show is an R&B love letter to R&B fans. So we have great conversations with amazing R&B artists, singer-songwriters, producers, contributors to the culture.

And, you know, can we talk R&B? See? He's up there. Okay, he is. Hey, Tank. Fuck you, nigger. That's what that just, that's what I just. That's what Ian just said.

Shout out to my home boy, Tate. No, man. Ian just said, Big love. Big love to Tate. Fuck you. He can sing better. We come out here.

We're going to do that podcast. Ian Spooner the throat goat of R&B. Hashtag throat goat. Bro. The best pipes in the game. Ian Vaugh music, go follow him. And Vonn. Go hashtag it.

The best throat and R&B. Oh. Oh, my God. That is crazy. That is crazy. Bro. The fuck. I dare you.

right now in your bio to put the best you know what? Ian go, go, go, go,

bye. Hey, this means war. This means war. This means war. Bro, I'm proud of you, bro.

I love the podcast. I saw the interview with Case is up right now. It's been going viral. Case is one of the best. We just released our 50th episode with Estelle. Oh, nice. Friend of the podcast.

Yeah. And then we've released the 51st episode with Simone Joy Jones that plays on the show Bel Air. So, yeah, I mean, we have a lot of amazing, you know, a lot of amazing talent on the show. But, you know, Van, you out of line, bro. I'm going to call your mom on that one. You come on the podcast. You come in person, excemirolet, L.A., and we're going to share some embarrassing stories about Van. Like you can tap into things that nobody else can.

We don't do that. Yeah. So just to let you guys know, the throat goat is coming in person. That's what Rachel said. All right. We out of here. Take 10 caps off, but do not stop learning. Ian Spooner.

The throat goat of R&B. It's tough to be your friend. You don't understand what these niggas have done. Well, we're going to learn when they come in. I want a whole player, we don't have a whole player proof podcast. Yeah.

I'm good. Okay. I'm good, but you don't understand what they've done. All right, well, we're going to learn.

They've put the disses out. They've put the drive out. By the way, that's not a drive. That's me supporting my friend who has one of the best music podcasts out there that is only going on. Like, that's me supporting my friend,

once again, the throat goat of R&B. All right. Love you, me. Take the caps off. Do not stop learning. I'm Van Lathen, Jr. I'm Rachel and Lindsay.

Bye, guys.