Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Kerry Washington and 'The Whoopi Monologues,' a New Black Panther, and an Argument for Term Limits

Episode Date: July 28, 2026

Van and Rachel react to the recasting of Black Panther, a cheating scandal in the WNBA, and the White House Correspondents' Dinner before welcoming actor Kerry Washington to discuss the revival of ‘The Whoopi Monologues’ and the importance of theater. Plus, Representative James Clyburn says Black voters let Kamala down, and a respectability politics discussion about Tuskegee University. (0:00) Intro (20:08) David Jonsson is Black Panther (29:36) WNBA cheating scandal (39:17) White House Correspondents Dinner (52:26) Kerry Washington joins the show (1:28:09) Representative James Clyburn and the argument for term limits (1:48:40) Tuskegee University’s dress code (2:02:40) Has Rachel seen this? Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Kerry Washington Producer: Donnie Beacham Jr. Social Producer: Bernard Moore Video Supervision: Jacob Cornett Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Highland is on. Is Ivan Lathen Jr.? And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. Rachel, you ever seen Claire's Heart? No. Never saw that?

Claire's Heart. You just saw it. No, no, no, no. I've seen it before. So we're talking to Carrie Washington later, and we're talking to her about a revival that's happening. It's kind of a revival. Not really a revival.

It's a different, it's a reimagining of Woody Goldberg's one woman one woman Broadway show from the 80s. Now, Whoopi Goldberg has come back and redone the show. She redid it in the early 2000s, but now they're reimagining it with a bunch of different actresses playing Whoopi Goldberg's roles.

Right. Instead of, yeah, Whoopi played five different characters. Right. They brought in five different actresses because Carrie felt like whoopi cannot be, nobody could do what she did. Right.

It takes five women. So because of that, I went on a Whoopie deep dive because I loved Whoopie movies in the 80s. Jumping Jack. Flash, burglar. I'm not going to sit down and like rewatch the color

purple on a random Sunday. But Clara's Heart was one of my favorite movies. Whoopi Goldberg. If you guys don't know Claire's Heart, Neil Patrick Harris plays a young man that his parents are going through it. They had just lost a baby. And then they

go on vacation in Jamaica. The family is dysfunctional. Everyone's mad at each other and who did they meet? Clara who's awesome. They hire Clara to come back to Maryland and work for them and then she you know forms a bond with Neil Patrick Harris and the whole thing is about their bond. The parents end up getting divorced and all of this stuff. And I forgot about one part of Clara's heart at the end that is hysterical. When Neil Patrick Harris's character gets mad at Clara because Clara says, hey, he wants to like move.

This is what happens. He wants to move to live with his father in Baltimore. The mother goes to California. The father stays in Baltimore. He wants to live with his father in Baltimore because he wants to be closer to Claire. Claire says, can't do that. You got to go and live with your mom.

Like mothers and sons. It's a bond, right? It's a bond. and no patrick hairs gets mad and what do you think he does to clara what he tells her i knew you just be a nigger in the end no that's how the movie ends no the movie doesn't end like that clara like clara clara comes along and she she hold on hold on clara comes along and uh this makes me never want to see this What about what you told me?

No dis, you said. No one that you can depend on me. Clear's Jamaica. I heard the accent. You just love me because you had no one else. Maybe that's what happened to Ralphie. Have you ever think of that? Ralphie's her son.

Look at how he sucked. Selfish pig. Yeah. And that's why he did what he did to you. Now, I got to talk about that too. A very nasty child to call me selfish. Hmm. I'm doing this for you.

You made me love you. You're dumping me because it got to be too much for you. Oh, you'll get another job and you'll never see me again. We might have to have Neil Patrick Harris on the show to talk about that. Now, by the way, that's not... Obviously, that's in the script, but I'm just saying, as a child, I just... I wonder if he reflects on that role. That's not even the worst thing that he said to her.

Oh, my God. And that, oh, the thing that he said earlier, because he mentions her son. There's backstory between her and her son in the movie. And I don't know what the 80s was doing, talking, like going into these types of subjects. When he said why your son did what he did to you, that is a disgusting thing to say to her based upon what, I don't even want to get into that.

Nobody wants to see that movie. The movie is actually good. But that kind of trope of like the older black woman who cares for the young white child, who then feels so comfortable blatantly disrespecting her and talking to her any kind of way. There's no respect for age. There's no respect for the care or a kindness that was shown.

And then at the end of the day, he sums it up because after all of it, this is really what I think of you at the end of the day. Now, after this, they do make up. Of course. She walks over. They do make up. She understands that I guess he's just a kid that's lashing out. And so. No, there's a deference.

Well, I know, that's what she believes. That's what she believes. And that is what they wanted us to believe at that time. So he goes, she goes over there and they make up or whatever. But I just remember I was watching it and I deeply, deeply, deeply, what is this? What is Donnie putting in there? Skip Bayless? What's going on?

Why is there a picture of Skip Bayless in the rundown? You don't remember Skip Bayless telling the story? Oh, yeah. About the woman who cared for him. That child grew up to be Skip Bayliss. kid bailist now. That's right. I forgot about that.

Donnie. Johnny on the spot. Yeah, I watched Claire's heart. And I just, he's like, you, you, I knew you just be a nigger in the end. It's what he told her. That's what he told her. That's what he told Claire. Whoop's a movie.

Whoopi Goldberg got like hits, man. So shout out to her. We'll talk to Carrie Washington a little bit later. Rachel, what did you do this weekend? Friday, game night. It's teaches somebody to play Spades. Um, black, by the way. Tough.

And then. What do you get these niggas at? Tough. You know what I'm finding that? I'm finding out that's more common that there are black people who don't know how to play spades or dominoes out here. Yeah. Out here from all different places, but they live out here. And I'm just, I mean, you know, I learned as a child going to family reunions and being like, what's everybody doing?

What's going on? Pull up a chair and you learn. That's how I learned how to play domino. knows how to play spades. Yeah. It's fascinating to me because it's just, I don't know, it's just so a part of the community, the culture. But anyways, yes, How old 31?

They know how to life. We might be losing recipes. I can see that. Like, we might be, do you play Spades Bernard? Play Spades and Dominole. Okay, oh, I just don't do that to me. Yeah, that's right, that's right. Game night and then Saturday I went out to Compton Rodeo.

Shout out to Compton Cowboys, Compton Museum. They put on a whole... Shout out to Randy. Had great conversation with Randy. You too need to have a conversation. Let's talk about that. It was supporting, just like it was...

There was a moment of silence for Eric Washington and the young woman who lost her life. And this event was actually supposed to be in Compton. Because of what happened, they moved it. It was actually in commerce, but it was still benefiting the community and celebrating the community so they can put on more events.

And it was really cool because it was put on. on by these two organizations, but it was spearheaded by young folk. And it was, there were, you know, mechanical bull. There was, it was the black and brown community. There was a Latino band that was playing. There was DJ, shout out to Gamma Ray, Thought Warrior, DJing the event. There was, you could ride horses, you go do horse walks.

You could do a little like tent setup of like different informational things. It was, you could get your picture taken and like one of the, old where they like put the slide in and cover up themselves you know what I'm talking about yeah and like the flash it looks like it's straight out of the 1800s it was like a really just cool fun event and the energy was so good and you would have loved it I really enjoyed myself my little Compton Cowboys had today that I got that got while I was out there and then um yeah I didn't feel well yesterday so yeah Randy is uh shout to Randy um met Randy some years ago Randy is one of the most talented people I've ever met.

One of the most sincere talented people I've ever met. The Condon Cowboys have a unique, traditional, cultural movement that really is a part of the fabric of Southern California to me. I think even more than they know or get critical for it. It's a worldwide movement. I hear about it. Like people hear about if I start saying I'm from California. and that I grew up ride horses.

They always asked me about the Compton Cowboys. And they do so much behind the scenes. Like most of the stuff that you see on camera is they use Compton Cowboys to consult on the stuff that they do, especially out here in Hollywood. Man, you know something else? I don't know if he's going to want me talking about this. So Randy had a record back in the day. So Randy had a record back in the day because, you know, Randy's a rapper, music.

Yeah. Yeah, that's music. Randy had a record back in the day. and you know I know people around like whatever the industry or whatever he knows people around the industry obviously he was working with I think Dre at one point I remember everybody I played that record for everyone was like that is phenomenal that like I gotta have it I got to and I was just always wondering he's like the whole aesthetic everything everybody was into it I don't know me and him never really actually talked about it but just a relentlessly talented sincere person Car shopping this civic holiday weekend, most car dealerships are closed and all you'll find are crickets. Not Performance Auto Group. They're open this Saturday and Holiday Monday for their annual Civic Holiday Sales event. Celebrate this long weekend with rates from 0%. They might be closed. Performance Auto Group is open to serve you.

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Please play responsibly. I was at the con. Oh, yeah, you were there. Yeah, I was at the con. I was at the con. I was at the con for a long, long time. Back from the con had so much fun. The con is fun.

The con is fun. We went to the Blurred and Boogie Party. That's what it was called? Blurred and Boogie. Blurred and Bogey Party on Saturday night. Yep, me and the Midnight Boys, Cleek and Lauren. We all went out there to the Blurred and Boogie Party. Okay.

Everyone had fun at the Blurred and Boogie Party. then the Midnight Boys took over San Diego. In what way? They went crazy. Like Jomi, Steve, and Charles. You didn't join him? No, I was there, but I'm not going crazy because Ong's feet started to hurt, my back started to hurt, okay?

It's just over. But I was there watching them just go crazy. Jomi is a drink buyer. Jomey's giving. He's a drink buyer. Jomi is a, hey, nice to meet you. All the drinks on me. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, no, no, no, no. Jome is a drink buyer. Oh, wow. Jomey's a drink buyer. Does he have to be lit to do that or is he just naturally do it? I think that Jomey is actually...

That's how you know when he's lit. I think Jomey is actually the type of guy that wakes up and like looks at it goes, fuck I was going crazy. We all know like drink buyers, right? I know ladies who would be drink buyers. I can be like that. I can be like after you go there,

you start having fun and all of a sudden you don't want nobody to pull like their credit card out to buy drinks. I can be like that. I can be like shots, shots, everybody shots? Yeah. Charles is a stealth assassin. He moves, he moves, he moves solo on the dance floor to a lady.

He does. Remember at our birthday party? Yeah, he moves solo on the dance floor. And he has a single dance move that he does when he doesn't. And he, he's like, you know, and then, you know, Steve, I don't know how Steve knows the word to every black song ever made, Steve. Steve, so it was fun. I'm glad y'all had fun. Comic-com was fun.

We're going to start at Comic-Con right now. Oh, before we started Comic-Con, I got word that Orange Juice Jones was to come on to pocket. We have to let him go on. Let's go. We have to let him go on. Donnie, you're into Orange Juice-Jones.

Now, I haven't spoken directly to the Juice Man, but I did get word that Orange-Jews Jones would like to come on to the podcast. And I thought about this. How could we say no? Not just him. Let's get all of the hitmakers from the 80s that are still with us and doing well, you know, I mean, doing well health-wise and stuff like that. Let's put them on there.

Let's put an Alexander O'Neill on there if he's. Let's look and see who's around and put them. Jimmy Jam. Huh? What you say? Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. Those guys actually follow me.

So let's get these people on and let's talk about these records because I don't want people to lose track of these records. I'm glad that we got the chance to have a conversation about walking in the rain. Or maybe you put people on like me. A lot of hatein going on. You know, you didn't treat me like that. When I said I didn't know the song, you played it, talked about it. You walked through it. The orange, yeah, a lot, a lot, a lot of hate him.

And you know what I find. Well, you called the juice man. Well, I called the juice man. Let's be honest. I did. You called the juice man to pin. I said it sounds like a pimp in the song. I did say that.

Part of me is being playful, but, you know, but I truly had not heard the song, enjoyed the conversation we had, enjoyed, like, the people on social media, but, you know, it always irks me when the people are like, you take it just a little too far. You know, several people, oh, Rachel needs to get her black card taken.

Guys, as I wrote on one person, I go, oh, please, no, not the ball. black card. Listen, it's probably one of the cornyest things I think we could say at this point. That the black card needs to be taken? That we're still referencing the black card. It's just a little corny. It's just a little corny to me that I don't know the song. I admit it. I'm not the only one. I had a few people out who reached out. It's like, I'm your age. I didn't know it either. It is what it is. Isn't a measure of blackness. It appreciated being educated on it. And so I just, I made a top five. I don't think we should be telling people that they should

lose their black card. Okay. I made a top five of what? These are the people, these are the only times you should talk about somebody's blackness. Okay.

Okay. One, people who take away people's black cards. That's number one. Two. Two, people who invite others to the cookout. People who still using that term.

Oh. Invite people to the cookout. Hold on. I made a little. somewhere. I was writing this down. I really woke up thinking about this this morning. It's on your mind. People, black people who don't vote. Oh, come on. No, sorry. Sorry. That's where we are right now. That's where we are right now. Black people who use the term black card. Okay.

Black people who refuse to date black people. Okay. I'm open it. You can date everybody, but just refuse to date your own guy. Black people who define beauty as good hair and light skin. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Tough. Okay. Those are the only, those are the only, those are the only, we should even be doing that kind of stuff. Like taking people's black cards? Yeah. Well, if there's, if you want to, if you feel so compelled to use that term, take away people's black cards or to question someone's blackness. It shouldn't be a measure of a movie or a song or how they grew up or how they talk.

It should be these things. Yeah, you know, there's some things on there that I would push back against, but it's your list. No, go ahead. I push back on yours. I know, which you shouldn't do. But like, it's your list. But so I'll say this, though, I think that, like, because I was talking to somebody about this not too long ago, I think that, like, pop culture stuff is not a good reason to, like, investigate cultural blackness. Like, I don't think that pop culture stuff is a good reason to, like, investigate cultural blackness because some of that stuff is generational, right? Would have made somebody super black in 65, 75, 85, 95, 95, 2005, it's changing. like culture is technology

and you upgrade technology and stuff like that. I do think though that like think about what we did to start the podcast. You were surprised that somebody didn't know how to play spades, right? So even though... I said I'm surprised that I keep running into so many people.

Right. One-offs, fine, whatever. But that's because you expect spades to be like a black cultural standard. And so what, whereas you wouldn't say, hey, somebody needs to have their black car from that. Right, I wouldn't question their black car.

You wouldn't say that. But to set a cultural standard or at least have in space would be a very weak one, but at least to have an understanding of structure in that measure, this is like something that we do. I think that is acceptable. Well, because I'm not measuring it. What I'm more so is the amount of people that I'm surprised with. And again, I don't know if it's a regional thing or not.

We're Southern. So I feel like it's, you know, if you are blessed to have family reunions, it's something that, you know, you just see all the time. You usually end up knowing how to play. Similar to like pity pat and stuff like that, that's like to me a southern thing. I'm more surprised by it, but I would never measure somebody's black. I wouldn't clown somebody be like, oh shit, you don't know how to play spades. Oh, blah, blah, blah. Oh, you ain't black.

I would never do that. I don't measure it. It's just more of like, oh, wow. It's like I would think more people know how to play than not. And I didn't know until I moved until, yes, by people. When I moved out here, I was like, oh, wow, more people. Because there's a cultural expectation. And I'll say this.

Cultural expectation. Right, right. Every single culture does this. And this is the kind of thing that's interesting about black culture because it's such a scarlet letter to, blackness is such this catch-all of safety and inclusion amongst black people. It's such a scarlet letter to be like deemed anti-black or not a part of that. it's like because black also kind of defines American cool and you are like almost born into like the the birthright of American blackness with your black skin people expect you to be a certain way

and then when another black person takes that from you it hits like even harder than maybe it would in like other cultures right but every single culture litigates their cultural standards every culture every single culture has a way that they eat worship celebrate all of that stuff. And if like you don't, and if you don't know some of that stuff, they look at you and go, like,

whose man's is this? Every culture does that. That's what makes something culture. Right. So, like, I think that there's sometimes a different, I wouldn't say that orange,

orange juice Jones is something that should meet that. You know what I mean? But it is interesting to me who, like stuff like that. Because there's other stuff that like, that, you know,

maybe I don't know. Like, I grew, in the niggerest of niggerous places. But for example, I didn't grow up like eating oxtails and stuff like that. In other places, that's standard black food. Yeah, it is. And like where I'm from, at least not,

there's going to be a bunch of people from Baton Rouge that go, we ate it all the time. I didn't eat it. Yeah. You know what I mean? So we had other stuff that we ate that was, you know, whatever, whatever. But like, no, you can't take somebody's black card because they don't know. Orange Juice Jones. You can't take it for Anita Baker, though.

It could be ripped away. I don't give a... It can be taken right from them and burned. But see, it's not that I don't know her. Not that I don't know her songs. It's called a preference. Tough. Tough.

Tough. Tough. Tough. Just like New Black Panther being cast. It's tough. It's burning up the internet. The interwebs are... The interwebs have conspiracy theories surrounding this.

Donnie? Yeah, let's talk about it. at Comic Con this weekend, director Ryan Coogler took the stage to announce that Black Panther 3 is on the way as expected in 2028, but also that actor David Johnson is going to play to Chalo's grown son who was introduced at the end of Wakanda forever. Were you in the room? I was. Were you shocked? Yeah, give us, you have boots on the ground. Give us the play-by-play.

So first of all, just to let you know, the Marvel panel is at the end of the day. I think Kevin Smith comes on after, but the Marvel panel is at the end of the day at Hall-Age. we didn't have passes to the Marvel panel. We didn't have passes to the Marvel panel. So what you have to do is there's a press section in Hall H. Then there's a general omission section. Hall H, I think the capacity is like 7,000 people or something like that. So if you have a press credential for the Apple panel that was before the Marvel panel,

then they recycle the press. They take people out of the press seating and then they put new people back in. People have press panels. But if you get a general admission seat, you can stay in Hall H all day. Okay. Okay.

So we use the press to get into Hall H and this is the entire Inverse and then we had to individually find seats in the dot. There were people there sleeping that got there early in the morning and had sleeping bags and we're sleeping in there.

This is the GA though. This is in the GA. So we were like, we got there. We looked around. It was nowhere to see. It is dark. You're trying to look for people. And we looked at each other at one point.

We were like, I was like, I'm about to leave. Like, I'm about to go. Like, I'm not about to sit here and do this or whatever. And then Steve got a seat. And then Jomey got a seat. And then Mallory got a seat. And then Joanna got a seat. And then I got a seat.

And then the last one was Charles. and Charles got to see. We're all sitting in different places. And then we had to stay throughout the entire Apple panel, which was, I think, two hours. And then another panel, the Marvel started at six. We got there at two.

Wow. And so we had to stay there the entire time. They started off with Ghost Rider. They went into Doomsday. They did Spider-Man brand-new day, just kind of keeping people abrasive what's going on in Marvel. The Doomsday panel was phenomenal. All you guys can hear all of that on the Ringiverse.

And then at the end, Black Panther, that Black Panther announcement was made. And you knew that was happening? I didn't. Okay. I didn't know if there was, it was on the schedule. Like you knew maybe Spider-Man, you knew? They never give a schedule.

Okay, okay. It's just Marvel. It's Marvel. They come out and they give you what they give you. You don't know the production value that's going to be involved. They give everybody doing mass and all that stuff. Anyway, so they come out and everybody was expecting Denzel Washington to come out. Right.

Because people were saying, Denzel was in town and all that stuff like that. Denzel did not come out. but they did introduce a new Black Panther, David Johnson, who his career is going crazy right now, the long walk, industry, phenomenal actor, and the room went crazy. I think the people that are in the know that watch a lot of TV and film

think that this is an inspired choice. I think that outside of those people, they probably wanted a bigger name. So was he ever, obviously, names were floating around, people were wondering how it was going to be done, do you just recast Tachala in general, like that character? Is it going to be the son growing up? Like what is going to be, I guess, to happen in the third movie? Were you surprised that this is how they did it? And was his name on the list of people they thought? Yeah, his name was on the list of,

Was it really? It was on the list of these are people who could play Tachala. Okay. But on the anticipation list, his name was not. Okay. Of the people that could possibly play Tachala, you would see his name on lists. Okay. But on these other lists, it was Aldous Hodge.

The people who we want to play Tachala, it was Alas Hodge, it was Dams and Idris. It was a bunch of actors out there that were kind of. doing their thing and building their careers and in their moment right now. I mean, Yaya is a different character in Marvel, so that wasn't going to be a thing. But these were the guys that they were putting out there. John David Washington even, you know, people like that.

Is that all just a different character in MC? No. Oh, I thought he played somebody. He is in, not that I'm aware of it, I could be. Well, I wouldn't know. He's a, he's in D.C. He plays Hawkman. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But anyway, so. So he comes out. It's a big deal. And then for everybody in the room, they love it because these are people that watched like Alien Earth. These are people that watched the Long Walk. These are people that watched industry. But then the people that wanted a splash casting were probably expecting something different.

So that's the people outside of a room like that. And now you have people wondering like why Damson was not cast as Black Panther. And there was concept art that came out a little while ago that showed. showed Battle World in Adventure Secret Wars, and the guy who they had playing the King of Wakanda looked like Damson Idris. Who is it? I mean...

Oh, it's just art. It was concept art. It was concept art that they came back and talked about was maybe concept art that had been commissioned to be used at a time. And that showed Damson, a lot of people expected, or they were expecting that that casting would be made public at some point that they had cast them based upon

what they had already seen. I mean, to be expected that I don't, I think that whoever they named, even if it was somebody on the anticipated list, there was going to be criticism, there was going to be pushback because I think a lot of people are still emotionally tied to Chadwick Bowman and the sudden loss of Chadwick. And so I think that there's, you know, nobody can replace him a disappointment in whoever tried to come and follow. Like that's that those are, even though he is playing the son, he's still Black Panther.

And I just think that that's going to be, that's like a heavy load to carry. But I wasn't, I wasn't surprised that people were questioning it. But for me, it's like, you know, Ryan Coogler comes out and is like he, they've been sitting on this for like five or six months. He secretly met with him. And he said he felt it like deeply, deep within. I think we all trust Ryan Coogler at this point when it comes to making these type of decisions.

And so for me, I'm like, if he felt it, I'm excited about it. But again, I'm also not as invested. I'm not an MCU or... Yeah, look, it's going to be amazing. Of course. It's going to be amazing. The more interesting things to me

are not about who's going to be cast to play Tichala. They very rarely miss in casting these roles. We can talk about some high-profile misses in Marvel history. or some characters that people don't like as much, they very, very rarely miss in casting these roles. I think I'm more interested in like story. There has to be a time dilation of some sort.

If he's going to come of age, there are two movies that they are going to get to. Does he come of age in Secret Wars? It's like what ends up happening. To your point, it is Tachala, but a different Tichala. So will this version of Tachala be more favorite, to the comic books because in the comic books it is to chala that is the super genius tachala is one of the smartest guys in all of marvel like legitimately tachala black

panther is one of the top five smartest characters in all of marble all the tech and stuff like that they like he's coming up with a lot of it and all of that so people are wondering are they going to get a closer to the comic book portrayal of tachalla and like where does the story go from here with this new Black Panther. So, I mean, no one can recreate what Chadwood Bozeman did because Chadwick Boseman played the character. He played a king like what he was and he was a king.

He was one of the most graceful, gracious, um, sweetest dignify people you'd ever meet. And that exuded through the character and really set the tone for all of Wakanda. It just poured out of him And no one else is capable of that

Because no one else is Chad with Bozeman But you still have to recast a character at some point Or else the character dies with him And that's not fair to kids And to other people who are looking up And looking to Black Panther as a character You had to recast him This next one, Donnie

Yeah So also happening this weekend was the WNBA All-Star weekend And aside from the things that were happening on the court was the big news coming from Dijunay Carrington of the Chicago Sky. She publicly accused her ex-girlfriend, Las Vegas Aces Forward, Melissa Smith, of cheating with multiple players around the league. She posted on threads, since MFs want to be funny today, I'm going to be hilarious. Yes, Melissa cheated on me with Deja Kelly and Aaliyah Nye, plus plus many more.

Now, Carrington is scheduled to face off against Smith and Kelly on August 1st when they host and she's going to go up against Nye on September 19th. So interesting games coming up. So Melissa went on her streaming platform and she addressed, you know, there was at the stud buds had a after party and there was like like a camera that showed some arguing that was happening and it looked like Melissa and maybe it was Deja who were at. out who like got kicked out. And then she addressed that and she was like, that wasn't it. It was the end of the party.

Blah, blah, blah, blah. Not quite what people are making it seem like. And then, of course, like you can see on the live, people are like, are you going to talk about the cheating? Because that is what we are here for. You're going to talk about the cheating or not. And then she's like, yeah, she never says no. She more so was like, this is crazy.

We've been broken up a year. Why are you mentioning this now? Why are you naming other people? People were just at home mine and their business. They got to wake up to this. And so she just kind of talks around it, but she never fully just says flat out. She's like, if I cheated, if she cheated,

it's been a year. It doesn't matter. Like, that's kind of how she's talking. But this had everybody, because we still don't know why Dijonet just decided to like say, hey, I'm going to tweet this. We don't know what sparked her to want to say this. what happened, we just know it happened.

And now here we are dissecting. Can I just say, what I love the most about this is it shows how big the WNBA is. It's a cheating. Like everybody is so invested in this cheating scandal. Not that I'm condoning cheating or people's pain or any kind of thing like that. But the fact that this, so many things happen

during All-Star Weekend, records were set. I mean there were other other couple news like we learned more about just from offside stuff like interviews that happened more about Asia and Bam's relationship and and like that he had a really emotional interview talking about her father and talking about what they want and wanting to get married and all that like there was just so many things that happened this weekend but this is like what people are still talking about and it just lets me know how far the WNBA has come because gossip is such a huge thing. And that excites me for them.

It just does. You think it's good for the brand? I think it's great. That means people are interested, not just in what happened, but who it happened with. Which means, like, I would see charts with, like, lines drawn to, like,

okay, this person is connected to this person and this person's dating this person. Like, you see that in popular sports leagues because you're invested in the people in addition to the scandal. That shows you how far the, WNBA has come. And I'm excited for that.

Do you think the NFL would be better if there was some fucking going on? Let's say that like Aaron Rogers. Between players. Let's say Aaron Rogers was hitting Josh Allen. What? What do you want me to say? What do you want me to do with this? I'm just saying like that's exciting.

Let's say, let's say Aaron Rod. It's interesting for sure. Let's say, I don't know, Lamar Jackson. I don't know. Let's say he was hitting puka. People wouldn't receive it the same, sadly. I know, but what I'm saying is that wouldn't that be an extra added wrinkle?

It would be interesting, but it's two totally different. It would be so not talked about the same way. I know that it wouldn't because the WNBA is really a league that is on the bleeding edge of culture. I think whereas people might look, at the WNBA and other structures around it and think that the league is behind other sports leagues in culture I think the WNBA is ahead I think the WNBA players have much more freedom to talk about their social and political beliefs I think there is a directness about the league

even around stuff like this I think the league has become a flashpoint for cultural conversations in a way that other leagues haven't because they shy away from the conversations directly. So this is like something that I don't know if this is good or bad for the league or whatever. Whatever, it doesn't matter. Not everything has to be directly good or bad for a league. Some stuff just happens. And then it depends on like what the outcome is.

You don't know whether it's good or bad yet. You have no clue, right? I'm sure it's not great for people's personal lines, but you don't know how this is going to play out. But, I mean, I'm just saying, wouldn't it be interested if, like, Buckner was, like, hitting Travis Kelsey. And then he, and then, you know, Travis Kelsey is, like, you know, like, let's say that Harrison Buckner was given a speech. And then at the end of the speech, you know, he's up there and he's talking. At the end of the speech, he goes, you know, and I just want to be a real player.

I want to be a real player in this league. I want to be a player that is authentic. in everything that I do. And, you know, there are some players who I've played with, some players who I played against, who do big, huge things in Madison Square Garden. And we know that those things aren't real. We know that they didn't really mean them.

We know that they do them for their careers, that they do them for other reasons, because we know who those players really love. And it might not be what you guys think that it is. And then we all went, why is Harrison Buckner? Why is he, why is he, why is he, Why is he getting so emotional about Travis Kelsa getting married?

Boom! Because he's hitting Travis Kelsk. Oh my God. Okay? Because that's what's going on in his mind. That, to me, takes that shit to the fucking, it's the same thing. No? It's different, but it would be interesting if that's the words you're looking for.

Donnie, if we, be honest, if what I just said happened, happened, would that not be something that would be wouldn't you not be interested in that? What if Jared Gough was hitting Amon Ross St. Brown? Donnie, wouldn't that be something that you would be, isn't that interesting? It's a scandal.

You're right, it is. I said it's. I'm the one of using. I feel like you would get a whole new demographic of fans as well. Like my sister who does not like football, she would be all in if these were the storylines that she had to follow as well. I agree.

I'm just saying. I'm just saying. But it would be interesting because they're popular players. And so whether it's good or bad for the brand, it shows the popularity, which is what I love. They set a record for attendance this year. They got to practice at the Obama Presidential Center. So Obama.

Yeah, like, I just, someone dunked. Dominique, don't. Like, it's just like, so much happened. It's so exciting. Don't flush that bitch. Yeah. Bang. Hey, yo, we got to talk about it.

We're not going to talk about it on this podcast. But at Jomey's birthday party a couple of weeks ago, I floated an idea. The Sage Program. Do you remember this? I don't think I was around for this. In the NBA. I'm going to give you guys a breakdown. Not today of something that I think in the NBA would help spur stuff like this.

It's called the Sage program. Spur stuff like what? Like player relationships? Maybe the league is moving too slowly on embracing certain things, but I have something called the Sage program. I might go on Jason Concepcion's podcast, wait a second, to debut the Sage program, my proposal for the Sage program. I give it to somebody else.

Because Jason's my God. Jason's my God, I like Wait a Second. I've been on Wait a Second a couple of times, you know. And I show love to the Ringer, whether or not the Ringer, shows love to me or not. So, like, what I'm saying is the SAGE program. I'll go on there, maybe I'll talk about me. Maybe I'll do it here. They'll do it here. We talked about it. You just don't remember. I was not there for this. I think I would remember that. I didn't talk to you that much at Jomey's party. But for this, you were around because it was me, because I floated it

with the NBA guys. I floated to Jason, the great, the great, the great. Logan Murdoch, Isaiah. I floyded to all in them. Isaiah was automatically in on the Sage program. I wasn't there, but I'm eager to hear about it.

Yeah. I wonder what you'll think about it when you hear about it. Okay, what else is going on? The White House correspondent's dinner. Yeah, that happened on Friday. After it was rescheduled following the shooting the first go-round, the president took swipes at familiar targets such as Joe Biden,

He promoted his White House ballroom. He made jokes about RFK. He said Ilhan Omar should leave our country. And he made this joke about Nikki Minaj. But after hearing the gunshots, many people yelled, get down, get down. Which caused Nikki Minaj to start twerking. Do you believe?

Get down. I was Trump. Trump, he had another joke as well. Do we need to hear that, I mean? About Kaila? I mean, whatever the joke was, it was like about sex, the sex joke. Oh, my God. Donnie, run that one, too.

Yeah. And all joking aside, I do think we need term limits in Congress. I think term limits are very important because I see what's happening. I see what's happening. The other day, a senator I knew, got a text, a great guy from his wife. And she said, when you get home, I want to have you immediately come up the stairs and make love to me. And he said, I can't do both. You know what the, you know?

In other words, can't go up the stairs and make love. Does anybody get that way? I thought that was actually pretty good. That was actually the only thing I thought was good in this whole freaking stupid speech that they wrote. He's losing his touch. He's losing his touch. It's going away? He's never been funny in that way, though.

Not when he has to be. It's when he doesn't even, I don't even know if he's trying to be funny. ends up being funny. That's when I usually chuckle. Yeah. I mean, comedians are funny because you connect with what they say. That's not why Donald Trump

is funny to a lot of people. Donald Trump is funny because of his audacity. Yeah. So normally Donald Trump is... Yeah, it's... Yeah, it's, yeah. Yeah. This was...

I didn't even know this was happening. It's tough. Did you? I didn't even know that they had rescheduled the... All of a sudden, I'm on social And I'm like, what White House correspondence in are the fact that they redid this again? Not shocking on the administration's part, right? Because it's the first one that Trump was going to be a part of.

Of course he wants to do it again. Of course he wants this moment. Of course he wants to, you know, showcase how they're back and it's better and all of that. But the journalist that decides, I know it's part of the whole thing. And I know there were less people there this time. But I'm just shocked. I don't know. I'm surprised we did this again.

Surprise they went back for the last. Three months later. I just, I don't know. I just was like, really? We're doing this? We really needed to do this over again? I don't know. I think I was just taking aback more that this had happened.

Not shocked at the jokes that were made. I'm sure Nikki Minaj thinks that that was funny. She'll love the fact that her name was even mentioned. But he took it, as Trump does, or really anybody in that administration, it feels like, he took it as an opportunity to use the microphone in the stage to shit on people, to shit on different communities, which puts people in danger, to try to be funny in ways that are inappropriate, misogynistic, homophobic, transphobic, all of it. So, I mean, like, it was typical

Trump, but I don't know. I feel like the biggest news that came out of it was that everybody he was talking about Kristen talking to Stephen Miller was more than. Yeah, let's talk about Trump failing as a stand-up comic, which, you know, I'm obviously at the top of that industry. Trump failing that being that that's like really not news. I don't, I think that he, to me, there's a noticeable loss of vigor up there. He didn't, it wasn't just that he wasn't funny. He no longer has the ability to command that stage in the same way that, that he used.

used to. And he felt it. Like, when no one was laughing, he started shitting on everybody in the audience and the person who was riding the jokes because it's never his fault. Right. That's what I think. That's probably the funniest thing is that he was realizing in real time. Nobody's laughing at anything.

Yeah, he's not, he wasn't up there like the president, someone who, whatever, man, we can talk about the damage that's been done to the Trump brand, to MAGA, to this. That would be Galaxy Brain in a situation that's more so about like watching. him flail up there like what does it mean you know there's a lot of people going to do that but this picture is actually interesting donnie put the picture up um and obviously this is Kristen welker from uh meet the press who uh is uh she's talking to stephen miller here and it looks like they're talking in a way that is that's cordial if not it collegial in that in that way um and people are are are really up in arms about that that that's cordial if not it collegial in that way um and people are are are really

up in arms about that? I mean, we talk about all the time how people, how when the camera goes down, how people have conversations, how politicians, I know she's not politician, but, you know, she works, she interviews these people, how politicians, you know, are friendly, you talk, go to bars, go to dinner, they do all these things. So it's not shocking. She works for a corporation. She probably wants to keep a friendly, cordial, to use your word, relationship with the

administration. so she can continue to book them on her show. But this is Stephen Miller. I don't feel like if I was even trying to find something where I'm like, okay, well, I can understand why you talk to that person. If I was like trying to deeply find it within me to say, I can see why you would want to be cordial with this person, Stephen Miller would never be that person.

I don't need to go down a laundry list of all the things that Stephen Miller is and represents how hateful he is to anybody who's not white and how he has, it's his life's work to basically, I mean, he is a white supremacist and it is his life's work to create policies that further white men and shit on everybody else. And he is the driving force between a lot of it with, if not all of it, with the Trump administration. So to have, I don't understand, I guess, what you could be saying, could be talking to them. And it looked like maybe his wife was next to him, the back of her head. I just don't understand why that needs to be a conversation.

But that's me. And so I can understand why people are so annoyed or disappointed in seeing that. And this is no, you know, not a knock to Kristen because she does amazing work on Meet the press every single week. But I just don't understand the reasoning of having to be. cordial to someone like Stephen Miller. I can understand if you want to respect a certain office like the president, respect the person who holds that position.

I can, that's the, maybe I can understand that part, but not somebody like Stephen Miller. The answer is capitalism. The answer is that her job is connected to access. That's it. There's nothing,

there's not a personal indictment of her. No, I know. There's, there's, this is nothing, there's, there's not a grander conspiracy here. There's going to be outrage around this, but her job is connected to access. Not only her job as far as like the way she makes money or anything like that, her ascension in her, her profession is, is oriented around access. She has to have these sort of warm, collegial relationships on both sides of a political aisle.

She has to be able to talk friendly and openly. and politely to people that you despise, to people who despise you, that's a part of it. She's in competition with CBS. She's in competition with ABC. Meet the Press as a brand that's been around for a very, very long time. There's never going to be a point that politicians and big-time politicians are not going to go on Meet the Press.

It's not what's going to happen. There's insulation there that is based around the reputation of that program. That is true. At the same time, though, she is in a competition of blood sport really with those other people for having sit downs like she did with President Trump. For all of that type of stuff, that's a part of the job. What you just saw right there is an occupational hazard. I agree with you.

But is he the guy? Is he the one that you need to be able to do that with? I just feel like he is somebody you could walk past. and it would not hurt her getting Trump on her on. I disagree. I mean, I'm not making an excuse for her. No, I know you're not. I know you're not.

I think this is just a disagreement we have. When I look at him and what he represents, I don't think that being, acting like you don't see him, avoiding him during the night is going to hurt your chance in getting President Trump on, back on your airways. I just don't.

Him in particular. Number one. Maybe another one. Maybe you can't do that with Pete Hegson. Maybe you can't do that with J.D. Vance. I'm going to be honest with you. I think Pete HECSeth is significantly less influential to the president than Stephen Miller is. I might agree with you on that part.

Right. So if I think. And so, like, I think. I just mean having the, the, the, his status, his position on your show is what I'm saying. But then let's put that into context then, right? She's got to give horrible interviews to all of these people or whatever the fuck is going on. I understand that the way that the game is played on. on the Sunday shows. But if that is a guy that the president and I,

she might as well be nice to him, she's going to be nice to Trump. I mean, seriously, like that guy, Trump is, that guy has been made who he is by Donald Trump. That Donald Trump is using Stephen Miller to inform him so that he can get this grotesque sense of the set of policies and really this grotesque American political, discourse machine that they've created.

That deal is partly the brainchild of Stephen Miller. He's one of those guys. Stephen Miller, banning the entire ilk. He's one of those guys. So, yeah, she's going to be nice to him. She's going to be nice to him because if Stephen Miller goes,

hey, I walked by Kristen Welker and she wasn't nice. We don't like her, blah, blah, blah. Then there's going to be a chilling effect for the rest of the administration. She got two more years of this. I don't know.

I guess, and I'm not fully disagreeing with you. It's just that Trump is always talking about who's nasty, particularly with women, who's a nasty reporter, who asks nasty questions, who works for a fake news organization, and then we'll sit down and do an interview with them.

Yeah. Like, even when they are nasty. But to me, though, a lot of that stuff is show by the time you're there. All of these different, every single outlet around would have loved to have been in the barn,

with Trump with the rain coming down, even though that didn't go right. To have that moment, everybody would have wanted that. Everyone would have wanted that. And that's a town that's built around relationships. Those relationships are sometimes involved, sometimes those relationships involved just like profound,

personal, I guess, sacrifice or hypocrisy. Also, we don't know. what they're talking about and we have no idea how she actually feels. We don't know what her politics are. We don't know any of that stuff. So like to me,

I look at that and I think it's completely appropriate for people to look at that picture and video and go, I don't like that. Completely appropriate. I'm not saying that it's not appropriate at all. Do not like mistake what it is that I'm saying. I'm saying, though, that that's the way it goes. And we're going to keep bumping our head

over and over and over and over again. Because that's the way that it goes. Like, that's how it is. That right there is how it is. That's how it is. I'm glad that people get to see it. But in that situation, she's thinking about her, she's thinking about her network. She's not thinking about the interview before.

She's thinking about the next one because she, that's her lifeblood. It is. Everybody's a competition. That's what it is. Okay. There are other people who I follow and love who might have not been in that situation, but those journalists are more independent journalists. any of those legacy media places.

I mean, that's a conversation. That's a corporate conversation happening right there. Okay. We're about to talk to Carrie Washington. Summer heats up in FX's The Shards. Set in 80s, Los Angeles, the Shards follows a group of beautiful, privileged prep school students

who are preyed on by the trawler, a serial killer targeting teenagers across the city. This fever dream of youth, beauty, sex, and mystery is a must see. FX's the Shards Streaming August 5th on Hulu on Disney Plus sign up now at Disneyplus.com

Outside of this break Stop down for that guys, stay tuned huge moment legitimate icon on the show right now okay, so many awards

Primetime Emmy Award Black Real Award NDACP Image Award Team Choice Award for best breakout performance and save the last dance, the recipient of that, 2001.

Carrie Washington joins us on How I Learned today. Thank you for joining us, Carrie. How, where is... Back into the archive. Where is the Teen Choice Award on the shelf? Where do you keep it? So the Teen Choice Award is actually a surfboard.

They used to give people surfboards, which is crazy because the character that I'm playing in the Whoopie Monologues is Surfer Girl. And that never occurred to me until this very moment. But that surfboard lives at my manager's office. That's phenomenal. We should say that you are here because you are starting in and producing the Whoopi monologues, a five actress reimagining of Whoopi Goldberg's landmark 1984 solo show, which

is for me one of the most important moments in my life as a watcher of stuff because Whoopi Goldberg is so important to me forming my taste in the 80s and the 90s and stuff and that's so important to her career. I remember watching Whoopi, we talked about it earlier. We played a clip of Clara's heart earlier in the show. Oh, wow. Yeah, and then right after that,

she goes on to be in the color purple, like the Jumpin Jack Flash, burglar, and then she hits this huge ghost, all of that stuff. She becomes like a mainstay with us. And this is a form of piece of Whoopi lore. Why did you guys decide to attack it in this way reimagined with amazing performers along with yourself? I love that you ask the question in that way because it's really conversations like this that inspired this into being. Because Whoopi had a profound impact on me.

I saw this special as a little girl on H. Even though I grew up in New York, it wasn't a show that I went to see with my parents because I was really young, but they did let me watch the HBO special. So I was like eight years old walking around my house singing around the world in 80 motherfucking days, quoting the show. And my mom would explain to me like, you can do that at home because this is art. You can't say those things out in the world. But she understood that what Whoopie was doing was using here. humor and sometimes profanity to break down our barriers and open our hearts and then really transform audiences. And I just knew, like, as a little girl, I was obsessed with this show. I memorized Surfer Girl. I memorized Fontaine. I mean, I just was so blown away by the material. And throughout my career, when I got to work with Whoopi or meet Whoopi or talking to other actresses, this conversation would happen again and again. Like, I don't think I would be where I am today if it wasn't.

for the Whoopi monologues. I don't think I would have the career I have today. She's one of our Egot winners. She's just such a groundbreakinger. And she made the impossible scene possible for so many of us. And so as I had these conversations with people, I just felt like at some point, we need to remount this work with a collective of women

in order to honor Whoopi, honor her legacy, honor her contributions, and say thank you. Because when she created this show, the Whoopie Monologue, she was really just trying to say to people, like, look at me, look at what I can do. But her courageous act of doing that now puts us all in a place where as a community, we get to say, look at us and look at what we can do as a collective. So I had the idea to do it, and I asked her if I could do it. And she said, yeah, since then my production company, Simpson Street, we brought the idea to Lincoln Center because it's such an incredible institution that where I think art becomes very elevated in this space at Lincoln Center.

and they said yes, and so here we are. It's interesting, too, because you're also bringing it to a generation that may not be familiar with it, and I'm sure that went into some of it. Whoopi's career, it expands across so many decades, and she represents so many different things that someone might say, oh, I only know her from this, oh, I only know her from this. Yeah, I only know her from the view. Right.

I only know her from hosting the Oscars or comic relief, right? I only, I mean, she's had such an incredible, as to your point, depth and breadth of what she's been able to contribute. Yes, and I'm so excited that people are going to see her in a, some people will see her in a new and different way. But then also how relevant what she did over 40 years ago still is, sadly, in certain ways. But then I also just, it's so interesting to me for you. You've learned about her show at such a young age, and it's still really. resonated with you probably before you really even understood what it meant. What was it that even as a young girl you loved about this before you really could really

understand the meaning of it? I think that as a child, what I understood was that there was this black woman on my television screen that was a superhero because she was morphing before my eyes. And I was an only child. I spent a lot of time alone. I spent a lot of time in my imagination. She made what I did alone in my living room. She elevated it into an art.

And so I identified with her magic. I wanted to figure out how to harness my magic in the way that she harnessed hers. And I did also identify, even though there was so much that went over my head as a small child, You know, I grew up in the Bronx. So Fontaine, the junkie character, like, I knew Fontaine's. I had Fontaine's in my family. And the fact that she made this character somebody who was educated and who was thoughtful, who was profound, but who was struggling with drug addiction, that was really powerful to me.

I don't know if I could have articulated it at that age, but I knew, like, I know Fontaine's, and she has centered Fontaine on the stage. She's made Fontaine, not somebody that we look away from and agree. ignore on the street, but somebody whose story we stopped to ponder. I knew surfer girls. You know, I knew girls in my neighborhood who were like that or, you know, because my family traveled. I just, there were my, the Jamaican lady. There was so much about the Jamaican lady period, the piece that I didn't understand. But my grandmother emigrated to this country from Jamaica, worked in people's homes, you know, cooking and cleaning. So again, there was a character who

society wants to marginalize and look away. And Whoopi is saying, see us. We matter. Our stories matter. So I think as a young child, even though I may not have gotten a lot of the nuances, I knew that what she was doing was magical. And I knew that what she was doing was important. How underappreciated is Whoopi Goldberg?

Like having, I'm seriously like, I talked about it earlier. I went back and I've been with her throughout my entire. watching life of stuff. Right. Every single era, right? You even talk about sister act. We talk about, you know, Eddie. I mentioned ghosts before because it's so funny to me.

Like Tony Goldwyn came to the play the other night. And I think the first time I ever saw Tony Goldwyn was in ghost, right? So like, whoopies even responsible for O-LITs from scandal. Like, she's, she's all the places, all the things. I still don't trust him because of that. Yeah, I know. My husband's always like, is somebody in the computers? Yeah.

He's in the computers. He's like he's talking to Sam. Sam is the ghost. He's like he's not knows Sam's real. I still don't trust him because of that. It took a lot. Took a lot for me to get over that. But, you know, she's had so many different phases of her career.

This is a tremendous, not just execution of her work, but a tremendous tribute to her. How underappreciate, I'll ask you again, how underappreciated is Whoopi Goldberg, from everything that she's meant to dramatic acting. comedic actress, she as a host, they're not very many people like her, period, ever to perform in this industry. I agree. I think it's, when I listen to your question, the answer that really lands in my heart is that I think there are many of us who appreciate her privately.

But I don't think we've had the opportunity to, as we always say, like the proverbial give her her flowers in real time in this way. Like, I don't think we've had enough public declarations of her genius. And that's what I'm so proud of with the show is that I, it's one thing for me to carry gratitude in my heart, but to actually pull the work forward, introduce it to a new audience in a new way and honor her in our bodies, right? Like now the gratitude has become embodied and is being delivered. carried forward to audiences,

were actually disseminating our gratitude with contagion so that other people feel the excitement that so many black women in particular feel for her and toward her. We were talking about it before, about just how I think you made the comment of whoopee is just so great, and she was able to do this as a one-woman show that you can't repeat or be a whoopee in the, that way. So you have five women, including yourself, who are representing each character,

and they do it start to finish rather than, you know, switching in between like she did. And I am wondering what changes when a character gets to perform in, like, the whole thing instead of just like a few minutes back and forth? Like what is a character, like, what does that bring to that role that they get to do it from start to finish rather than switching in between? Yeah, what's interesting is she would change hats and become these different people. And so as a result, a lot of the fervor around the play when she mounted it, I mean, in her egot, this is what she got the Grammy for, was the recording of this show. And I think people attributed her talent to it working.

It was almost like this work was a piece of performance art that required Whoopi to make it work. And what we've done by taking her body out of it is you can actually see the genius in the writing because it works with or without her. Like she wrote something extraordinarily profound and important. Like you said, still relevant 40 years later. One of the pieces is from a 20th anniversary special. So 20 years later, 40 years later, that the material still lands with so. Audiences, every single audience leaves having laughed 20 times and cried.

five times. Like, people are, like, I'm, it's such an emotional roller coaster. And that's a testament to Whoopi's writing. And I think as an actor, you get to, like, really dive into each character and have your whole being devoted to that character rather than worrying about switching hats. I mean, it was, it was, it's a phenomenal feat of talent and creativity that she played all five roles because the five of us are exhausted from playing one role each a night. But I think it also allows us to like pour into each piece as its own separate opera. Did you give any thought? Was there even like an inkling of you trying to perform all five parts? Did you think about it in any second? Did you go, okay, I want to take all of it on. I think when I was a kid, I think

when I was a kid or teenager, like maybe in high school or college, I had a dream of like one day I want to do the whoopee monologues. But I remember, I did a film called For Colored Girls that Tyler Perry directed and Whoopi was in that. And Anika Noni Rose was in that and Janet Jackson and Loretta Devine and Tessa Thompson. And we were all standing around one day talking about how important the Whoopi monologues were. And Anika Noni Rose and I actually started to recite monologues from our heads like in her presence and she was blown away. And I would have this conversation with Tracy Ellis Ross who was like, oh, I used to perform it. alone in my living room with a hairbrush as a microphone, or Robin Thidi, who was like,

there's no way I would do what I do today if it hadn't been from Whoopi. And I was like, I think it would actually be selfish for me to do this on my own. There are so many of us who want to pour into her. And it would make it about me. It would be like, Carrie Washington brings back the Whoopi monologues. And I was like, the focus shouldn't be me. If we're going to honor Whoopi, the focus really needs to be about us coming together as a community to honor her. I also did a lot of work throughout my years with the vagina monologues, which was another really profound, important show that women would perform together. And I think that had some influence on how I thought about this. That I was like, oh, this should be about community.

It shouldn't just be about me and can I do it? I would love. I mean, if we get to rotate the show and, like, have it, have an extended life. I'd love to take on one or two of the other characters to continue to play, you know, like not play Surfer Girl, play Fontaine or not play Fontaine. Like there's so many opportunities to play, but I love the way we're doing it because I don't want it to be about me. Like I'm actually, I have to leave the show early because by the time we got all the dates figured out with Lincoln Center, I could only do a limited run.

So I'm only doing one more week. And then the show's going on for another month at Lincoln Center and Journey Smollett, who's genius and fantastic. She's stepping into play surfer girl. She's going to be brilliant. I'm so excited. And I'm hoping that maybe that kind of test. run is a model for if audiences have the hunger for it, for us to keep the show alive and continue

to rotate different talented stars in and out. This kind of piggybacks on what you were saying about the different characters, but is there a character among the five besides your own Surfer Girl that hits you hardest to watch from the wings and why? God, they all do. I know that's not the right answer because I should have, but they do. They really like, they hit me in really different ways. I have to say blonde girl.

And blonde girl is probably the character that resonated with me the most as a child because she's a child. And she is this little black girl from around the way who fantasizes about becoming white. Because of the lack of representation in her world and in her community, she doesn't know how to see herself as beautiful.

And that piece, I think that piece really landed on me as a child when I was watching, but now when I watch it, I feel emotional even thinking about it. Now when I watch it, I really think about my daughters. And so that piece lands on me in a very different way now as a mom, you know, because of wanting to continue to do the work that I'm doing around representation and creating opportunities for us so that no little girl feels that way.

You mentioned Tracy earlier. She's on the stage right now. Don is on the stage. She is. Yeah. Yeah. Tracy's on the stage right now. You guys go see it.

Like, Dawn, I think A brilliant, every brilliant thing. And Tracy's incredible. And it's a one-woman show. So in some ways, Tracy is simultaneously honoring Whoopi Goldberg with her show at the same time that we are. And she came to opening night and got to say that to Whoopi.

And it's just, it's really amazing. What is motivating everyone seemingly like right now? So I'm seeing a lot of said is on the stage. I'm seeing a lot of people actually go do Broadway, off Broadway? Like what's motivating everyone to go out there and, I mean, Don's veteran of the stage, but to take the stage right now? Yeah, I loved Don. Purposes was so fantastic. And Kara Young was in purpose before we stole her to come over to the will be monologues with us. And I.O. is so fantastic in that. I think that the theater is so special because, you know, in particular in this time when AI has us questioning. what's real and what's not, to be in a room with other human beings where you have this social contract of like everybody's going to show up at the same time, in the same place, and the lights

are going to go down. And just like we did in prehistoric era, we're going to sit around a fire and we're going to tell stories. And the fire today is the fancy lighting that's in the ceiling. But the stories are the same. We're going to talk about love. We're going to talk about loss. We're going to talk about ambition. We're going to talk about adventure. We're going to talk about fear. We're still doing that. So there's just something I think so ancestral about the theater and about being in real time and space with people in a ritual of storytelling.

And also as an actor, it's so good for you. It's like, I don't know. It's almost like it's like a different kind of training. It's like when athletes go off. It's like it's almost like training camp. Like I think about my husband, you know, when he used to be in the league, and he would go to training camp, but he would, like, disappear for a month

to prepare for the season. And there's something in the ritual of doing theater also that your muscles just get stronger. Your instincts get tighter. Like, you can't turn around and say to the cameraman, like, wait, cut, I want to try that again. Or give me one more swing in it. Like, you have that one moment on stage,

and if you forget your line, you got to figure it out. Like, it just makes you really sharp. So there's a gift on the other side always of doing this kind of work. There is, I went to the Pantages just this past week to go see Phantom of the Opera. And there is such a magic and what feels like an immersive experience when it comes to theater. And I'm wondering like what, and you're right, like there seems to be so many more people from film and television who are coming back to the theater, at least feels like that right now. And I'm wondering like, what are your thoughts about some of the conversations that are happening about Broadway,

and how, like, there's a lot of conversations around Katz Jellicle Ball and just how it seems like these shows are disappearing so quickly despite the success and the awards that they have. And it still feels like there is this desire for people to want to go to the theater and to feel that. Like I said, I just said it last week. But for some reason, it's not translating on Broadway. What are your thoughts on that?

I think it's different. I think it's different because it's true. I'm so sad about Cats Jellicle because I love that show. show. I mean, I was just saying to some of mine, I did something in that audience at Katz that I have only done in church, like leapt to my feet, arms in the air. I was so moved by that show. I love it, love it, love it. So I'm really sad about that. At the same time, there are shows like Proof with Don and Io that has been a great success. The show with Taraji and Cedric, I mean, Joe Turner has been a huge success.

So I think, you know, sometimes it's hard to have these conversations because any time you have a show that works and is successful, it's a miracle. Like there are a lot of white shows that fail too. It's just hard to do what we do. But I think that it's important to talk about the shows that struggle because as a community, we need to make sure that we are supporting our stories because we're only going to get more of a. our stories when we show up for those stories. So I know that's a hard topic for you, so I'm going to give you a less hard one. Now we'll switch to politics. So a question, you've always been so outspoken, always been so outspoken and always been

so directly active with some of your political work. We're asking a question now, to you, how much should celebrity endorsements of politicians and movements matter? I think a lot of people are asking questions about like, you know, how much we should have. Because everybody has a patron saint that's a celebrity or influence or whatever that represents the left, the right, the center, this, whatever. And it seems like sometimes we're fighting proxy wars on behalf of those people. How important should we take what a celebrity thinks politically or a candidate that they like as the voting public? Well, what I would love for people to do is let go of the hero worship in general.

I want us to move away from centering the idea that one person is the solution to all of our problems. Again, and this is, I think this is just a weird thing about how my brain works and I don't know why, but, you know, when I say I didn't want it to just be me doing the whoopi monogues because I know there's more power in community. That's how I feel about politics, too. That you do have these once in a generation people like Barack Obama, who is, you know, a miracle of being.

But generally speaking, the solution is not in anyone politician, and it's not in anyone's celebrity to win or lose an election either. The solution has to be in community. The solution has to be, like, the definition of democracy is government by the people, not government by the person. So for that to work, we all have to show up. So to that end, I think it's wonderful. Two things.

I think no person in the public eye should have to sacrifice their voice in a democracy. So I always say, I don't talk about politics because I'm in the public eye. I'm never going to give up talking about politics because I happen to be in the public eye. I have a right to talk about the things that I want to talk about because I'm one of the people in we the people. And what I want more of us to do who have a microphone is to rather than say we have the answer or we have the solution or this one person is the answer solution. But like what is the values perspective that we're coming from? And how do we just encourage everybody to own their voice?

Like how do we encourage every person to know that their voice and their vote matters? It's not about me. It's not about, you know, whoever is Gaga, Beyonce, like whoever you know, whoever you. you want to get to perform at the whatever. It's not about that person. It's not even about the one candidate. It's really about like, who am I? What are my values?

When I say who am I, I don't mean me, Carrie Washington. I mean like my neighbor that I grew up with in the Bronx. Who am I? What do I care about? What's important to me? And then am I willing to show up at the polls to have my voice be heard? You know, that, that, and to me, in some ways, to bring it back to the whoopee monologues,

I think that's one of the reasons why the materials still resonate so much is like, again, these are all people who we need their voices. We can't afford to have members of our community be marginalized or think that they don't matter. When people tell me their vote doesn't matter, I'm like, but you matter. So your vote matters because your life matters. Like politics is not a mystery idea. It's like it's where you live and how you worship and what you. What you can wear, the water you drink, it's the books you read.

Like, that's what voting is about, is protecting who you are and what matters to you. And I love, I think at Simpson Street and my company, we gravitate toward material that reminds people that everybody is the center of the story of their own lives, that everybody's voice matters. That's the way the world works best. I so well said and and the end of what you're saying I kind of want to talk about a little bit because it's the characters that you represent on screen on stage or that you decide to get behind and produce with Simpson Street that I there is something that is so complex but yet relatable about the characters that you choose and I'm wondering the thought and strategy behind it because it reminds me of Karen Pittman on the morning show in the first season, they're asking her why she decided to have a relationship with Steve Carell's character. And she just simply says this comment of like, people, humans are complicated or people are complicated or something like that.

And it was so simple, but that sentence always resonated with me because it's so true. And your characters are like that, but free of judgment, I feel like, because I'm like, oh, there's something that I understand why they did with. they did, why they're imperfect, why they're complicated. And I know that you've said that you want to, you want to do material that's make sure that it's not disrespectful to women and specifically to black women. And I'm wondering, like, how do you find the difference between a flawed character who's honest and then one that just reinforces a stereotype? Oh, that's so good. That's such a good question. Because, you know, it reminds me that Chimamanda Adichia quote of like, I'm going to paraphrase,

but she says something like stereotypes aren't wrong because they're false. Stereotypes are wrong because they're not the whole picture. So we get in trouble with stereotypes when we don't allow the full humanity of the person, the full context of the person. When we try to reduce somebody to just a simple idea without allowing for the layers of humanity, that's where we get in trouble. And I think that's one of the things also that I really love about what we does with this writing, Even the character names, right?

It's like surfer girl sounds like a stereotype. Blonde girl sounds like a stereotype. Jamaican ladies sounds like a stereotype. But when you open your heart and you spend time with them in this monologue, you're in conversation and community with them and you realize people are complicated, that there's complexity and beauty to everybody's journey. And that's what humanity is, right? So I do, I really am drawn to characters that we talk about this at the

company all the time at Simpson Street about looking for stories and characters that sit at the intersection of what makes us very unique and different because you want to step into a world that you've never been in before. You want to feel like when you're watching something, it's new and fresh and is moving the bar, pushing the boundary. But we sit at the intersection of that, what makes us unique and different and what makes us all the same, that shared humanity of we all want to be loved. We all want to be successful. We all want to live in a just world and be healthy and free. Like that, that is, I think, something I'm always challenging. We're always challenging ourselves with. And I think the big difference between reinforcing stereotypes and being a

complicated person is that that magic alchemy of humanity. Like, can you be a real person? And and so a big part of that is for me, getting behind the why with compassion, getting behind the why people like people do, like when I think about my character from imperfect. women. She's so messy. She's so, so messy. She makes a lot of choices that I don't necessarily agree with. So my job as a producer and as an actor is to get underneath the why from a compassionate perspective so that it feels like I understand why somebody would do this. Like hurt people, hurt people, scared people do crazy shit. Like to understand the humanity. You know, I saw an interview with you not too long ago. You know, you know, you.

and my enemy from Ghost. And you guys were both being interviewed and you said that you don't think that scandal could probably be done on television today. It was acting on actors a couple of years ago. I think you guys were talking to CNN. And I was wondering, why do you feel that way? There was, you guys didn't expound.

Like, why do you feel like at this point, scandal probably is too hot for TV? I mean, there's a lot about scandal that could exist because we were so groundbreaking in terms of, you know, there was a lot of talk at the time that when scandal aired, there hadn't been a woman as the head of a network drama in almost 40 years. And then when scandal was a success, it led to the success of so many other shows with black women as leads, whether it was Empire or Quantico or how to get away. So in that way, it could exist. I think what Tony and I were both talking about was the, there was a level of like dark, corrupt, politics. that at the time seemed like fantasy.

There was like an underbelly of the dark side of what could happen at Washington. I think we were living in a time where we had much more kind of hope and joy about many of us. I don't want, you know, it's complicated. Some people feel the exact opposite of what I'm describing, but I'm talking about for myself and a lot of the communities I travel in. And so I think I don't know that in escapist ways, people would want to tune in to some of the issues that we explored on the show because you see that on the real news. That's, yeah, I guess I didn't think of it that way. I was thinking of the love story.

Yeah, the love story is amazing. And there was a lot of great stuff that we dealt with politically and there was. But there were, you know, some of it was like, you know, hard. Some of it was hard. Well, she's saying she doesn't know if they can handle the interracial love story. That's not what I said. Oh, really? No.

Racial thinks. I was married to somebody who wasn't black. He's just being funny. Rachel thinks because, like, she's, the way they treated her, she's like, they're not going to go for it now. But they love, we love that. Bye. No, because, listen. You know, you know that it's what people want to talk about.

Yes. Yes. They do. They do. What people want to talk about. You have a gift of, you're active on social media. you're outspoken, you know, of using your voice for purpose and what matters. We see you play all these characters.

And I think people would think that they knew a lot about you. But like they really don't until, like personally, until they read the memoir, which I thought was excellent. Oh, thank you. Is that something that you would ever think about bringing to the screen? I don't think so because I don't know that it's that interesting for the screen. It is interesting, by the way. It really is. Yeah, I don't know.

I feel like maybe I'm too close to it. Maybe I'm too close to it. Maybe it's something that somebody like 100 years from now would say like, oh, remember that actress in the olden times? Like she had a really interesting personal journey. But I think it, I, what I really love is becoming other people and playing pretend. And we happen to actually tell a lot of stories at Simpson Street that are inspired by, real people, whether it's confirmation with Anita Hill or reasonable doubt, which is inspired by the lawyer Sean Hawley. We do, we have a couple of things in the works right now that are really

exciting. Unprisoned was inspired by a real person. So we do gravitate toward real people, but I don't think I would ever want to take my story. I'm very proud of that book Thicker than Water. I'm really proud of it. And I'm really grateful for that journey. But even writing that book, I had sold another book idea. My book idea was like a kind of poppy, like the 10 things I learned about life from playing Olivia Pope. And that was the book that I sold, which a lot of people have been saying like, well, you should write that book. You should. But I, in the process of selling that book was when my parents revealed this family secret to me. And then every time I sat down to write the book, I was like, all I can think about is this new information I have

about my family and my identity. And so I kind of like accidentally wound up writing this much deeper emotional memoir. The Whoopi monologues are playing the Lincoln Center through August 30th, 2026. I have to tell you something here. I want Namdi on the show. Four time all pro nom di awesome. Like like, you know, outside corner. Lockup Corner, Lockdown Corner. I want to have him on the show. I want to ask him specifically about one thing. And I'm not going to even give the audience or you any indication of what that one thing is.

I'm not going to say it. So that's supposed to be the tease. That's the tease. I want to ask Nomdi about one thing. That's not going to get him on the show. First of all, if you are lucky enough to have my amazing husband on your show, you should have a lot more than one question plan. I have a lot of questions. He has been able to transition from being a really incredible football player to the screen in writing and producing in a way and acting in a way that directing the whole deal, all of that stuff in a seamless way that we don't talk about.

But there's one thing, one hilarious thing that happened when he was playing that I have to ask him about. That I have to ask him that I have to ask the awesome while I'm about. So to make that. pitch to him. If you want to talk about that, we're going to talk about a lot of things. We want to talk about that one thing. We would love to have him on the show. Well, I will say, and you know this from the memoir, I will say, our family, we're big theater people. And it's another reason why being here in New York doing the Whoopie Monologues is so special. You know, Nomdee and I actually met backstage when I was doing my first Broadway play.

And so theater is like a real second home for us. And we love the New York theater community. really grateful to be a part of it and to work alongside. I mean, Whitney White, our director for the Whoopi Monologues, just like a phenom. It's a special, special community, this theater community. So we do have to support and keep it alive. Yes. Carrie, thank you so much for your time today. Thank you for joining us on Highland.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. All right. That was Carrie Washington. Yeah, I'm not going to tell you guys what I'm going to ask Namdi about. I'm not going to tell you until Namdi. gets on the show.

I may or may not have told Carrie when we got off the year. But like it, but I want to talk to Namdi Assemwa about about this one thing. We'll get Namdi Asim Wal. I thought your watching was fantastic. Oh yeah. Always. Always.

Um, okay. Let's stay on politics real quick. Yes. Uh, 86 year old representative from South Carolina, James Clyburn sat down with Astrid Herndon of Fox.com. And he had this to say about the 2024 election and its results. Like,

Was there any political lesson you think there is to take from an administration whose central goal was to stop Donald Trump's return? And here we are. And he stopped it. I mean, you stopped it and enabled, I think some would argue. Well, when the white vote turned out 71 percent two years ago and the black vote turned out 59 percent, you tell me whose fault that is. I guess I— 59% of African Americans went to the polls two years ago. It's tough. For me personally, to blame black voters for the last election more than it is to blame President Joe Biden.

That's the fact. It wasn't Joe Biden on the ticket. It was Kamala Harris on the ticket. For 107 days after he decided. On the ticket. I guess I just wanted to see if there was a clear political lesson you took from that moment and whether they're thinking you think, something applies in this kind of larger Democratic rethink after. But I hear you. You're saying that you think it was a

media problem. It was a branding problem. It was a candidate problem. I didn't say that. The media had nothing to do with that 59%. If that 59% had been 69% she would have won. I guess. So is the argument that black people let Kamala Harris down? Oh, in many instances, absolutely. If you don't show up to vote, What are you doing? Is there no valid reason why black voters could not have felt heard by the last Democratic election? Is there no valid reason that they would have?

There might be. I like to know what it is. Phenomenal work by Stead. Phenomenal work by Stead. Phenomenal job. And if you're not supporting him, you should be. He's done a great job. He does a great job at Vox.

He's done a great job before at the New York Times. Like phenomenal job right there. Oof. Ooh. Y'all should listen to. the entire interview. Not that long, about 30 minutes. But man, the entire interview

lays out a beautiful case as to why he should retire. Anybody who is similarly situated. Every question that Astead asks, Clyburn's responses are either dismissive, there's a lack of understanding, or there's a I'm the establishment so fall in line that pretty much is true I don't think that I'm like exaggerating by saying that that's pretty much the sentiment of every response and even when

instead tries to get him to understand hey this is what people think hey this is how people feel he is so cliborne is so emphatic about well that's not what people are coming up to me and saying well that's not like these are literally his responses and And it's just the lack of desire to want to understand what other people are saying who may not agree with you. The response is kind of like, well, they better get in line because you don't want Trump. Okay. And then at one point instead is like, well, what about black people who feel like black voters who feel like nothing has been done by the establishment? That the Democrats aren't doing anything.

He's like, well, they're not telling me that. I mean, even the conversation of him not knowing what chat GPT is. And instead saying, okay, well, with technology growing the way that it is and the conversation being around data centers and you don't even have, you just learned what chat GPT is. He's kind of like, well, it's not my job to know everything. It's my job to hire a team that's around me. I'm hesitant to say this. I'm not even going to say it. I'm not even going to say it.

Let's do this. Let's do this. Let's do this. So I was talking to Jomey. I once again were able to go to Jomey. And Jomey was telling me that in his culture, that there's something that you have to do sometimes when you see one of your elders,

that what they do, I'm not sure I want to speak. They like lay down on the ground for the elders. Like they'll lay on the ground. For them to walk over. Not for them to walk over. Oh. But to show deference to their elders.

Okay. And he was like, well, we don't do it the traditional way all the way. Like what they do is they do is they. They bend down and they touch the ground for their elders. Okay. I am, you should do that. I am from the deep south. Yes, ma'am, no ma'am, yes, sir, no, sir.

When you see somebody who has clocked the time on this earth in the place where I came from, and they've been able to be there for a long time and be in stewardship to a lot of people, they deserve deference, they deserve understanding. They do. Absolutely. I am not from a tradition that doesn't respect its elders, and I will continue to respect my elders, especially now that I'm becoming one, okay?

So I will always respect my elders. Having said that, which I have to say, out of respect for Rep. Claiborne, what he's done, what he's meant to South Carolina politics, when he's been to politics, period. I am wondering how long we are going to let people like Jim Clyburn lecture us about the current contemporary life that we are living. I wonder how long, and this is for everybody, and I'm not saying it for y'all to like it. I'm wondering how long y'all are going to let the Jim Clyburns of the world tell y'all to pull your pants up.

because that's not a that's not a conversation even the way he was having that conversation is not a conversation at all that inspires any type of cohesion any type of shared experience that is a conversation that seems to be putting black people in a posture where they owe their

vote to the Democrats or to Kamala Harris or to whomever. Do I think it's smarter and would have been better for black people to have voted for Kamala Harris, which they did, by the way, they did overwhelmingly. But for there to be a bigger turnout, for there to be a more robust political turnout. He's not talking about the black people that went to the polls and didn't vote. It's about the fact that 59% of people showed up so there should be more people. If 80% of black people show up and vote for Democrats, Democrats will never lose, all that stuff.

I understand all of that. The question is, though, at what point are we going to get into a conversation about how inappropriate it is for somebody who is a public servant to talk to the people that they are serving that way? This is why the Democrats right now on the left, excuse me, are getting their lunches eaten. Really, they're not, by the way. That's not happening. But the reason why the DSA and the people that are left of these guys are making such gains is because, they're saying, hey, directly talking about you. Affordability, Medicare, foreign wars you don't like.

You, you, you, not what you owe, not what you owe us, what we owe you. Like, child care, free buses, all of this stuff. It centers the person that's going out. I don't need these anymore. It centers the person that's actually going out and casting a vote. Meanwhile, everyone else is saying we're not doing what we're supposed to do, which, look, I think that you should be civically minded and that you should vote. I also think that you should vote against people who want to marginalize you and oppress you. I think that you should do that.

But I also think it's their job to make that case. It's their job to make that case, the case against fascism, the case against sending money overseas to foreign wars. The case against, against, against structural racism is their job to make that case. And if they're not making it clearly and powerfully enough, they're going to lose elections. But coming back after all of this time and acting like that, that is an example of the change that needs to happen within that party. Y'all don't have to like it. This is said with all due respect for rep Clyburn and what he's meant to South Carolina and to politics, period. it. There's respect with all of them.

But I'm telling y'all, y'all going to see you ourselves into oblivion. Okay? The reality is changes on the horizon. It will be, people will demand it, and they might demand it in some ways that are destabilizing to democratic establishment. And if they don't hear that, there's going to be strife. Not just within that party, but in America overall.

I just cannot believe that we still listen in the conversations like that. That's totally inappropriate for it to be talking like that. It is inappropriate. It's extremely revealing and it makes a bad case for the establishment, in my opinion. I mean, there are parts of that conversation where he tries to tell him about you voted for Cuomo in the primary over Mom Dani. And he's like, you opposed Cuomo at one point. But then you ended up voting, like back in 2021, then you voted for him in the primary. And he's like, well, I don't know Mom Dani.

and he says his name wrong, by the way. He's like, I don't know him. That can't be your answer. Like there's no desire, there's no will to try to understand who this new person is, what his policies are. It simply is, well, I'm going to vote for Cuomo because I know him. You know, according to him, good things about him, but you also know bad things about him, which is why you were against him at one time.

So I don't understand how you can't, you say, well, I'm not going to even try to get to know who this new up-and-coming person is. I'm going to vote for the establishment. Why are you voting for the establishment? Because it protects your place in it. I can't understand how even now, which Asted tries to make this point to him, Lindsey Graham just passed away, who he worked with in South Carolina. You have Mitch McConnell, who we don't know what's going on there.

We saw what happened to Biden in 2024. Ruth Bader Ginsburg passed away while she was still on the bench. You have these people who lived, who state, probably stayed in office at times, longer than they should have. Instead of investing in younger politicians, like, if you're so steadfast on your ideals, then take those and invest them into someone who's up and coming because somebody did that for you. You're born in 1940.

You grew up and were involved in protest in the 60s. His whole career has been politics. You were a part of change. You were a part of a movement. Yet you seem to be, I won't say stop. one per se, but definitely ignoring what the younger people are trying to tell you now. You're just refusing to listen to it. That's why I say this entire interview is a case made for exactly why there should be term limits.

Why the establishment, Democratic establishment is a problem and why going into this next election, you're even more of a problem. You're not listening to what you're saying, oh, because there's the one point in the interview, he's like, I'm about affordability. Well, maybe if you had looked at Mumdani, you would have known that that was his whole platform as well. It's just baffling to me. Like, I know these people, right, whether they're in my neighborhood growing up, at the church, at the barbershop, at somebody you walked by. Like, I know these people who are steadfast in what they believe, but they aren't politicians.

They aren't representing a community. This is somebody who might be talking to you and me, doesn't have the power or the influence. Jim Clyburn, in my, what do you want your legacy to be? What do you want, are you more, are you, is it more important for you to hold on for as long as you can because you still have your wits, which is great? Or is it important for when you go on that the, the mission still moves on or does it die with you? Right. And that is what, I mean, Maxine Waters is 87 years old and she's running again. Yeah, I mean, look. And this is no, I'm not trying to like, But see what we're doing?

But I'm not trying to take away from what they've done. It's just like, but this is where the conversation moves when you stay longer than you should or you refuse to listen to the constituents. Right. Look at how we're having this conversation. Look at what I did. Look at that long preamble that I did, bringing up Jomi's family and culture and all of that stuff. This is a cultural thing. This is one of those things that's uncomfortable for a lot of black people to do.

It's uncomfortable for particularly people where I'm from. Remember we talked about a couple of weeks ago, like the old lady in the wind. Like the whole analogy that I made assumes deference for her because she's an old lady in the window. And that deference is a part of my tradition. It's a part of my cultural tradition. But man, I just got to be real.

Like what it seems like to me is that Jim Clyburn and other people like Jim Clyburn, right, want the establishment to be like a warm blanket that you pull over yourself. If you give everything to the establishment, you'll be warm from the cold of white supremacy, from the cold of fascism, from the cold of them taking away your voter right,

whatever it is. You'll be warm from that, right? But then when there's a hole in the establishment blanket, they want you to sew it up. Mm-hmm. Like when you pull the blanket over you, and your foot goes through it, they want you to go get a needle and thread

and they want you to sew that up. They want you to do the work to maintain the strength of the establishment when we are consistently reminded of the holes in the blanket. We're consistently reminded that it's not working the way that it should. And either we're looking for a different blanket

or we're looking for somebody else who can sew a little different and we just keep getting talked down to by some of these people. And look, man, I'm not going to get into a whole left of the center thing versus whatever. None of that. I'm not getting into any of that. Because if you guys want to eat each other's faces

online in the face of what the world is facing right now, have at it. Go for it. If the left and the center of the Democratic Party want to have legitimately a gladiator match while people are being killed in the street, starved. Like if y'all want to do that, go for it. Go for it. We'll look up

10 years from now, the fucking robots will be taken over. I looked, Elon Musk was just on the economist and watched the whole fucking thing. Elon Musk was like, yeah, we just probably just like ride it out like, you know, the robots are taken over. Just ride it out, like have a good, good time with it. Like, you might as well just enjoy the moment because the robots are here. And while

we're doing that, you guys are talking about Hassan Parker every five minutes. Like, you guys are on there talking about like legitimately having some of the most useless conversations when people are suffering. Y'all want to do that? Go ahead and fucking do it. What I'm not going to do, though?

What I'm not going to do is be talked to like that. That's over. So the patron saint of whatever it is that you got down the block, straight up. Like, tell them to go with votes. Straight up. Straight up. When that boy came out last year or the year before and said, hey, we need to

primary some of these older people, what happened? What happened? Everybody was like, we spoke too soon and blah blah blah. And it's racist and it's all of this stuff like that. Bro, I appreciate everything everybody had done. But my God, bro, I could name a bunch of names, people that's never going to say this. What I could do, because I've been on these calls is people in South Carolina. It's people in Louisiana, younger black men and women that are being denied. opportunities to take their place in the Democratic Party because the older people in the party are boxing the fuck out. Y'all know I'm telling the truth. Y'all know it's real,

but y'all say it on the phone and then when it's time to go out and talk about it, y'all smile and laugh and do what I just did. I understand why you do it. I understand why you do it because who wants to kick their auntie or their uncle in the ass? Who wants to do that? Especially with everything that these people have been been through. But God damn it, man, we in the dirt. Is anybody going to provide a shovel? Is anybody even and go like I'm you know I don't know it's just like that shit is hey man I want to make a big deal about it I'm ranting again I'm sorry I apologize to the audience but come on man just like you know let's rich whatever everything Rachel said is right she said in the right tone and

everything what can we just can we just like pretend like you can still be powerful and invest in younger voices and younger and understanding what the next generation wants. That does not mean you have to lose your power to do that. We gotta put the ego to the side. Fuck your power. I don't give a fuck if you lose power. I don't care.

I'm gonna break everything in here. I don't care if you don't lose your power anymore. Man, man, go fishing and like you did your part. Your watch is over. Yeah, but like that's what I'm trying to get you to say. I agree with you. I don't care about your power, but I'm trying to get them to realize like, as if they're listening to this.

But you don't have to lose your power to invest in younger voices. You just don't. Look what happens when you stay too long in places. It's just, it's just... You're right. It's so simple. We're talking about...

I was having this conversation with someone this weekend. I remember who I was talking to. And we were saying, actually, it was Mark. Mark Gasson, friend of the show. Mark who we had on here. Yeah, I like Mark.

I know, you do. I like Mark. I know. Trying to put me against Mark? No, no, no. I'm just telling you who I was. talking to. I remember as I was saying it. About how simple this really

all could be, but what isn't simple are these egos. And that's really what it is. And we have talked a lot about we but it's not just there's the same group of people that would be protecting Mitch McConnell right now, Nancy Pelosi's

oldest shit. This shit has got to stop. She's leaving. Okay, like this shit has got to stop man. This shit has got to stop. If George George Clooney wouldn't have got spicy, they'd have moved on with President Biden. And then lectured us about what we were seeing.

I mean, it's love, but God damn, man. Like, you know what I'm saying? It's, you know? It's tough. And another thing about, last thing I'll say about the DSA in this regard, when accused of dick riding the DSA, The last thing I'll say is they're young, right? They look like a group of people who could go 10 to 15 rounds.

So sometimes the fucking, when you looked at Cuomo, at Cuomo who is legitimately wearing the scars of his fraught political career on his face. And then it cuts to Mamdani, and Ma'Amani's like, and he looks young and he looks vibrant and he looks hopeful. and he looks invigorated. All it is, I'm going to vote for that guy. As long as he don't say nothing stupid. All right.

We'll save Jonathan Majors and Megan Good and Rolling Stone Africa for Thursday. We'll come back to that. Let's do that. What about Tuskegee? Yeah, it's almost back to school season. And Tuskegee University sent a message to parents of incoming students from President, Dr. Mark A. Brown, announced new expectations governing attendance. cell phone use, and student attire ahead of the upcoming year.

The HBCU's dress code prohibits students from wearing revealing clothing and classrooms, dining areas, and official university settings, including convocation. Bedroom shoes, bonnets, and du rags will also be prohibited in classrooms and in the university cafeteria. Students attending business meetings and other professional events will be expected to wear business suits and appropriate shoes. Brown wrote in the message, The goal here is not meant to restrict students from enjoying the Tuskegee experience,

but to prepare them with a solid foundation for the workforce they will enter once they leave Tuskegee. Hmm. Hmm. Oh, you know I hate this. How do you think I feel? I don't know. How'd you dress when you went to college? However I want it.

Right, like maybe pajama pants. Yeah, like pajama pants, slides, whatever I want it. Same. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't imagine that you would be a fan of this. I'm not fan of this at all. Yeah. I think this is so problematic and even more so that it's being, it's being publicized and announced in a way almost as if you should, this is something you should take pride in. Now, you want a band revealing clothing?

Okay. If you say that students attending business meetings and other professional events will be expected to wear business suits, great. That is a professional event. it is a setting. It's they have programs like, they had programs like that when I was in college too of like resume building and meeting with different people

and like, yes, you dress fourth apart. But class, I have class super early in the morning. I may have to walk all the way across campus. It might be raining so I have something on my head. I might have a class in the morning and a professional event in the afternoon or the evening. I need something on my head. as a protective thing.

I just think that this is, this plays into something when we talk to Carrie Washington that she says about stereotypes. This is them stereotyping that if you wear a bonnet, if you wear a do rag, that it speaks to a particular stereotype

or makes you a particular thing. And I think that is very wrong. And I think it plays into a narrow vision that others have of us and we're playing into that. You walk in a class with a scarf on your head or a bonnet. to protect your hair for whatever reason.

As Carrie pointed out, stereotypes don't tell the whole story. You have no idea why that person wants to wear. It could be for comfort. It could be for they just got their hair done. It could be for, who knows, for whatever reason. But to make it seem like, oh, you wear a bonnet, and that equates to a student being unprofessional, is just so problematic to me.

You can't even go to the cafeteria in comfortable clothing. That's not business. I don't think that you have to wear business clothes in class to bring a professional mindset to class. I just don't. This is silly to me. It is more than silly. I don't want to go too far.

I've been going too far again. I don't want to go too far. But, you know, it's funny. Remember we talked about Comic Con? What do we say? We said that, like, dressing up like Black Panther, like don't make you Black Panther, right? But you know why it doesn't?

Because Black Panther isn't real. So you couldn't be Black Panther. No matter what you wear, you're never going to be Black Panther. And there's a lesson that we are not learning. We still think that we can put American safety and respectability on our body. We still think we could wear it. We still think that, like, there's some kind of way that we could dress or act or present ourselves that is going to make America see our humanity in who we are.

They killed Dr. King in the suit. They killed Trayvon Martin in the hoodie, but they die for the same reason. You should be able to go and wear anything on the campus of Tuskegee that's going to aid you and learning. If you got a special du rag that you wear for comfort, or if you leave in the house and your hair not, lined up your shit not right and you want to put the du rag on because the du rag makes you feel

good about the fact that you got to go sit in the classroom without your line on point or whatever if that's going to take your mind off the fact that you're not up to par and let you focus on what's happening in the classroom then the du rag is helping you and what i would say right now is that all of this arbitrary shit particularly to your point when we talk about the classroom. All of this arbitrary shit is just synthetic barriers to what this is supposed to be about, which is go there and learn

in the best most comfortable way you can. But you know what's even sillier? They're acting like these are just random people who are showing up on their campus. These are people who applied, who you went through, their essays, their community service, their letters of recommendation, their grades, all of these things.

And you determine that they have done the work and have the smarts and the ambition and the desire and all of that to be a student at your campus. So why does that change because they got something different on their head? Why? Because you know what's really about? So all of a sudden they put that on and they aren't who the very person that you accepted, you accepted them in. So they obviously have the right to be there.

They're the type of student. You chose them over somebody else. They're the type of student that you want to represent on your campus. Putting a du rag on or a house shoes does not change that at all. It's a contradiction. So I read a book by a guy one time. I'm not going to name the guy because, you know, we unfortunately had to let go of his influence for different reasons.

I'm not going to name him. but in this book he talked about this gentleman that he knew while he was in school this guy had just come from another country and even though this guy was brilliant ended up being a multiple PhD and some of the hardest disciplines

that, not multiple PhD, but got multiple degrees PhD in a really insanely difficult discipline like cutting edge of technology and like intellectual thought this guy's like a big guy. but he was having like problems in school because he had just moved from another country and he didn't understand what the teachers were saying

so he was getting like seized and stuff like that and he was brilliant. Okay. And he was saying that the school never called his house about his grades about the fact that he was obviously brilliant

but the fact that he was performing as an average student. That's not what they called about. They called when he started being late. When he started being late to class because he actually didn't want to go to school because he was like trying to figure out other ways to like be deviant

because he was embarrassed about the fact that he couldn't speak the lame. So he started showing up late to class. They, when he was late, they started calling the school. Like, hey, just let you know your son is late. The reason why he said that they were doing that is because the school itself wasn't actually about learning.

The school wasn't for you to take advantage of your brilliance or to show you how to capitalize on your thought. The school is to form you into somebody that's going to go out and produce for capitalism. So the school can't have you being late because if you lay to school, you're going to be late for work. And if you lay for work, that's going to hurt product And if you hurt productivity, you hurt the company.

If you hurt the company, you hurt the economy. If you hurt the economy, you hurt the country. So they need to get you ready for that. So part of these schools, right, is not about having a student in the classroom that is fully enriched, fully ready to attack the world, attack the world, attack the world, attack the world, learn enough. at that school to give the world their vision and version of it. Not to go out and be a good citizen of it. Fuck that.

Forget about that. If you're not that, they're going to put you in jail. I'm talking about what version of the world do you see. You ain't supposed to care about nobody wearing a du rag while they figure that out. You're not supposed to care about nobody wearing a du rag while they in there going back and forth with

a professor figuring out their place in the world. I'm not saying you can come to the cafeteria in the thong. I've Obviously, I'm not. Like, I'm not saying that at all. But I'm saying, I don't like this type of shit, man. Like, I don't like this type of shit. Like they put whatever kind of costume more than y'all want.

A suit, three-piece suit, dress like Black Panther, dress like whatever. That's not going to make you any safer. They're not going to respect you anymore. They're just going to call you a nigger in a different way. So why don't you make yourself more powerful? And on a campus of Tuskegee, you're supposed to be able to do that with people understand.

what the fuck is going on. Y'all still playing these nigger games after a generation. Fuck all that shit. I'm sick of this goddamn shit. These last two goddamn, like, I'm sorry. Fucking du rag, man. They better let these kids get their lesson.

A du rag. No, it's insane. We wear duwrags, bro. Am I tripping? We wear duwrags, man. No, you're not. I like slides. You know, I wore slides at TMZ.

So I wore slides at TMZ both on the show and I wore slides like when I was out shooting celebrities. I had slides on. Okay. And then like, you know, so one day, after years and years of wearing them. So let's say I get to TMZ in 11. We had a new office at this point. So it must be like 13 or 14. I'm like, God damn, man.

My calves. My calves. My like, I got shin splints. My shit has hurt me. I'm like, I don't know. This is fucking terrible, man. Like, I'm in a lot of pain. I'm asking for aspirin around the place.

And Charles looks at me, Charles goes, van. It's like what? He's like, you fucking wear slides every day. That's why you got shin splints. So I went, got some shoes. They went away. Yeah. I was playing all kinds of basketball.

And when I was playing a shit ton of basketball, and then when I wasn't playing basketball, I was wearing slides in there. Now you don't have the support you named. They didn't have the support that. And I was getting older. So I was getting shit. shin splints.

Charles pointed out. And then I put this, you know, and I started stretching. Shins are what ruined my track career. Oh, for real? Hurt? Mm-hmm. Couldn't get, I couldn't handle it. Hocas.

I'm going after I leave here, I'm going to. They didn't have those back in adventure. I have some hocus. They're great. They're great. After I leave here, I'm going to Runner's World in Brentwood where they have created new insoles for me so that I can play basketball. because the Kobe's that I that I played basketball does not a shot at Kobe or his legacy

have to say that but I put the Kobe's on and I played with them for one time at the Crenshaw Y and I couldn't walk right for six months that's not this was the Achilles this was the Achilles thing couldn't walk right for six months but someone said to me they say hey go get some insoles specifically for basketball nice yeah when you tell these stories I'm like unc unc unc oh okay Oh, but guess what? I'm back on the court. I'm doing my thing.

Not yet. I'm moving around. No, I'm back. I'm back out there. I'm back out there. I'm doing, whew. Damn,

what's up, what's up, what's up? What's up? What's up? See this? I lose all confidence. Pshu. Because a lot of people are going to be like when they see this and they go, they go, van, you don't really pass that much.

They got to say that. Who are you passing to? But. but I do pass. To who? Let's say I got, I'm giving you a bond. I like to make, I'm a good passer,

just not a willing passer. Oh, you're a ball hog. No, but I will say this. If I'm not a ball hog, we're getting the best shot. That's the game. And you are the best shot on the team? A lot of times, I'm, yeah.

But like, I'm willing to give up a good shot for me for a great shot. Anybody that plays with me will tell you that. If there's a close out coming and you wide open, you get in the ball. But I tell you one thing, if I'm hot, that bitch is going up. We'll do a high learning watch. I'll go watch and report back. I mean, if you watch now, you're going to see somebody that's just trying to make it. If you watch now, you're going to see me being very supportive of even the opponents.

That's a good shot, young man. Let me know when you get some reps in. I want you to see somebody real quick. Before we get out of here, I want Rachel to see somebody. There's a man that's speaking of unc that's giving us hope. Donnie, he's giving us hope. I recently discovered him. And, you know, every year you feel like you've got to slow down.

Like, you can't be sexy no more. You can't be the man no more. But, Donnie, play this for Rachel. That's not true. Oh, I saw this man. I saw this man. Hey, catch that shit. You see where he catch the Cologne?

Oh, pretty Ricky, Ricky, Ricky. Look at this, this is the, oh, look at him. Oh, this gives me hope. Like, play it again. Watch him catch the Cologne. Nobody ever did no shit like this. Nobody ever did that, bro. I love him.

Seriously, we think, we think that we've seen everything under the sun. This proves it's not true. Donnie, run it again. Nobody has ever caught Cologne. Look at him. Nobody's ever, why would you do that? you would just walk into the midst of the cologne. He caught the cologne.

Because he's got it like that. Look at the pants. From the pants to the moves, to the song choice. Look at them. There are no mistakes made. His name is handsome Malcolm. I get it.

H-A-N-S-U-M. Now I saw him post a like a question that he was asking. The question was like, man, difference between men and women and stuff like that. Handsome Malcolm, don't fuck up. All right, don't fuck up. We don't want to know your thoughts on nothing. Oh, is he?

Hey, man, nope. All right. So, so sound off. No. Sound off. I don't want to talk about it. Handsom Malcolm, we don't want to know your thoughts on nothing. Well.

Just catch Cologne, brother. If you just catch Cologne. What did he say? No. No. Then why are we doing this? I already upset. I already know.

It's not bad. It's not bad. It's just, it's not bad. Why you always want to get into the negative? It's not bad. You brought it up. I'm just saying I'm trying to. I'm trying to.

advocate, I'm just saying it's not bad, but I don't want them to get into that mode, right? Don't catch Cologne. He's Gen X. He could be... Might be a boomer. He could be... How old do you think he is? People... Somebody said

he's 74. The nigger not 74. I'm going to give him about 64. I think he's younger than people probably think. That's probably like a 54-year-old guy that went great early that can play the role. Not 54. He got to be at least 50. No, no, no.

He got at least be. 60s not bad. That's actually a good guy. 60's not bad at all, but I think he's in a 60s for sure. Man, we're in it one more fucking time. Donnie, this nigga not playing with y'all. No thoughts, though. What the fuck is that? He caught a clone. Are you fucking kidding me? Look,

hand in a pocket, got the snap, got the shimmy. He got the whole- He's for sure a Kappa. He got the high-rise behind him, the whole nine. If he just continues to do this, he can ride this to doing this in Gucci and Prada and all of that stuff. He started to get too much

into his intellectual thoughts. He's going to fuck up because, you know, that's the way that it goes. Nobody knows better than me. Oh, something else I want to show you before we leave. Rachel should know this. Donnie, play this. It's not over. I told you guys what the reality of living in Southern California was. You wouldn't believe me, but this is the reality,

Donnie, whenever you're ready. Yeah. What do you think that is? Oh, no, this is all. This is all. Whatever it is. It doesn't matter when it happened. May 28, 2026. Look at him. I saw him. I saw him. Beautiful. Beautiful. beautiful. They've already recaptured him

and returned him to safety. Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful mountain lion a couple of months ago. Look at him. Look at him there. He's not bothering anyone. No, they, they, they've, he's safe. And I, I read the comments

and I was disappointed in one person more than any other people in the comments. Who? Ian. Ian was in the comments? Ian was in the comments. Ian was in the comments going, looking for somebody's kid or somebody's pet.

Ian, Ian, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't expect more from you, dog. I would expect me and Ian going to be in Atlanta. I would expect more from Ian than saying that this mountain lion right here who's just living his or her life is looking to do harm. It's Mount Lion. Beautiful though. Gorgeous, man. That was a beautiful shot.

I'm glad nobody was harmed. Mount Lion is safe. Yeah. Yeah. You, but you thought. I thought what? You thought it was over. It's not over.

I know it's not over. This is why you've ruined. I don't hike anymore really. You've ruined it for me. Completely taking something away that I enjoy. That's smart. Something that is particular to Californians. You either go meet Mount Ryan or Wild E.

Because Wild E is out here going crazy too. I saw one this morning. Wild E? Wilde. Wilde. Oh, Wiley. Wiley. I saw one.

You saw one where? Someone this morning in the neighborhood. I'm walking around. I just looked at him and gave him a headknot. He gave him a headknot. He was like, move on. I saw him. Coyotes out here going crazy, man.

We're in nature, dog. And we might as well get back to nature. Because these old niggas that we fucking with not going to let us live. Well, old boy is living. Handsome, whatever. Oh, handsome Malcolm. That nigga.

That gave me. I'm willing to. You know he's only 42, right? There's no way, Bernard. What did you say? Bernard, he's not 42. Bernard, he's not 42. There's no way.

Bernard, Bernard, binar, I want to let you know. Bernard, send it to Donnie. There's no way he's 42. Bernard, Bernard, listen to me. He don't have the hardest life. Bernard, I want you to listen to me right now. I want you to listen to this. If you're doing AI overview or some stupid shit like that that's going to make you look crazy, it's going to be,

you're not going to live this down. Because if this niggas four years younger to me, when I've put my entire stock in looking like this when I'm 60, I've made this guy a hero of mine I don't even know who he is If this guy's only 42 If he's younger than me

Ryan Ian If he's younger than everyone What are you being honest What are you doing? Google says he's 42 I mean but it's a it's an AI thing But it says but then this says 72 Social media says 72

I don't know where he's trolling If 42 came for him he's trolling Okay so we can't There's an Instagram video of him with his beard kind of shaving. I'm just posting it. If this is legit, then I believe it. Let me see. If he's 42, this changes everything.

This is only okay if he is late 50s or older. At 42, this is whack. I'm sorry, it is. I mean, it changes everything. If he's 42, Donnie. You 42, you shouldn't be excellent. like this. Am I lying?

At 42, this is alarming at 42. Guys, you know, I'm concerned. It's not cool anymore. It's now lame. You know, guys, you know, I'm going to do something right now that I shouldn't do. Okay. I'm going to choose to believe. Okay.

I'm going to choose to believe. I'm going to make a choice right now. But because I'm looking at this guy, I'm like, hey, man, just to let you know, this the way I want to be when I'm 65 and I want to be moving around like that I started looking at I did deadhangs this morning because grip strength is an indicator of longevity did dead hangs and now y'all telling me

this nigger wouldn't even been in high school with me he'd have been four years behind me in high school he would have been at McKinley Middle Magnet when I was at the I don't know this is him at 30 he's saying that's him now that's him at 30 That's what he's That's the same guy

This is on TikTok So that's the guy making the video Allegedly Hold on, let me see what Donnie said You know our internet ain't right Yeah Hey So handsome Malcolm

We are Handsom Malcolm Don't say how old he is It doesn't But I mean If this is what he looks like This is 20-year-old guy that's not the same guy

that's the same guy I think it is the same guy this is two years ago man that nigga it's the same profile on Instagram now's what that nigga 27 years old everything is a lie

last time it'll happen to you guys I never believe in anything ever again I believe that this thing was old and I believed that you know I'll never believe again it's it's over don't send me no more

of your shit and asked, I don't want to, I don't, did he send this to you? No, it's not him. I don't believe in him. I don't believe in y'all. I don't believe in myself. Okay.

It's like, I don't believe in him, don't believe in y'all. Now that other shit that he was saying, it makes sense. Because, like. What did he say? Now, tell it now, yeah, and no need to protect him now.

He was, he was asking when a man's prime is, when a woman's prime is. Oh, Lord. That's tough, dog. He's trying to be the next, he's trying to be Kevin's name. Nah, okay. Hey, see, I knew you was going to bring that, you know, let's just go, bro.

You know what, fuck it, dog. Don't surprise me anymore. I'm glad Carrie, no, no more. No more surprises. I don't like it. No more surprises. Carrie Washington was the only thing that was positive on this whole show. This whole, there was a negative show.

This was what, like this whole show we did. Look at this show. Trump, Clyburn, Bhop Panther 3 was good. Oh, the NBA. WNBA was good. Sage program. We talked a little bit about that. All of that stuff.

but other than this, we finish negative. We finish negative with this nigger. Like, if he is truly, what's a loss? If he's 55 and up, I'll count it as a win. I said late 50s, so sure. I'd be a late 55. But if he's under 55, if he's under 50, then his old nigger cosplay and he must be called out.

Yeah, like, I'm giving him credit for playing Pretty Ricky. You went college when Pretty Ricky came out. See, that's another thing that I should have scoped, because the reality is that why would Pretty Ricky be what he was playing? Like if that would have been It should have been like the OJs or Orange Juice Jones But the fact that he was playing Pretty Ricky

But really what made him look old though I'm gonna be real He was the pants The pants and the catching the cologne The catching the cologne is something that an old nigger would do It also felt like a capo It just felt like

I wonder if he pledged It just felt like I could see the caper was doing their little thing. I can see them spray in the cologne. But you're not supposed to, but you're doing it. I'm D9, I can do it. Oh, okay.

Oh, by the way, before we go, I ran into some sigmas. Just tell them I said alone. And now they have, they have issues. Tell them to come. I'm Jim Clyburn. Ain't nobody said anything to me. And nobody came up to me and said anything. They have issues because they can, they can taste the subtext.

Nobody came to me. See, you wearing your sigma blue today. Nobody came. Your hat, hat, hat. Oh, the hat is sigma blue. Nobody said anything to me. Some stuff we're working on. All right, we out of here, man.

I forgot that you wore two days in a row. Yeah, I got this at the 824 office. They gave this to me. They were like, we leaving here's an 824 hat. I was like, okay, shout out to 824, man. All right, we out of here, man. Look, you know what? Everything is a lie, bro.

Like, handsome Malcolm, until you clear this up, we're in the dirt with you, bro. We're in the dirt. I should have known not to believe in no old niggas, man, even though I am one. I'm older than this guy. That's why he looks better than me because I'm old. I'm older than him.

I thought he looked better than me. And he was, take a thing kept off, but do not stop learning. I'm Van Lathen Jr. It's all a lie. It's all a lie. Everything alive.

I'm Rachel Lynn Lindsay. Bye guys. Hey, y'all. It's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair.

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