Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Kristi the Dog Slayer, a Playbook Review, and WNBA Talks With Legendary Tamika Catchings

Episode Date: April 30, 2024

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay express their disgust toward the news of South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem taking pride in slaying dogs (14:46) before talking a bit about the White House Correspondents��� Dinner (26:11). Then, they are joined by the legendary Tamika Catchings to discuss the retirement of Candace Parker, the new age of women’s basketball, and the pay disparities within the WNBA (1:04:54). Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Guest: Tamika Catchings Producer: Ashleigh Smith Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Howe learning is on. It is I, Van Lathen, Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. Down! Have you seen that commercial? I have not seen this commercial.

They don't see commercials. I guess you watch your, you're probably watching the game, and that's how you see your commercials. I don't see commercials like this. They won't stop playing a commercial. They won't stop playing the Wingstop commercial with the black people playing Jenga and getting wings. Ashley, cue the commercial up to Rachel can see it.

Look at this. No flex. No. Look, it stops. No flex. Look, stop. They eat, look. The nigger and his chicken.

Look. They put the chicken. So, okay, so look, I'll say something about this. At first, I didn't have a problem with this commercial. Wait, you do? I do. Because if you notice, he was playing jing.

in the commercial and he was trying to concentrate. And you know what they used to break his concentration? A chicken sandwich. A chicken sandwich. These niggas and they chicken. Okay. No. No.

Okay. I got to say like these niggas and they chicken. I'll tell you what. Wouldn't it have been worse if she like threw a drumstick in his face? The chicken sandwich softened it a bit. I got to tell you. I don't have a problem with this commercial. I really don't.

They weren't. You think a chicken sandwich is more dignified than like just a piece of regular fried chicken? I can't explain it. I can't. I apologize with you. I can't. That tank makes sense for some reason. There's something like a drumstick.

Imagine she had a drumstick in his face. We would have been like, wait a minute. Like that take, if she would have, if she would have waved the actual drumstick, for some reason it's more primal. That, Rachel, that's a good ass take. Exactly. It's totally different. I don't have a problem with this commercial. There's no over-smiling.

They aren't singing. They aren't dancing. It's just like, hey, I do love Wingstop. I would get distracted from the game to take a bite out of my wingsop. You got the cup. You're drinking out of it. I had it last night at 12.30 in the morning. Like, this is an appropriate commercial.

It wasn't too much. It was just enough. Family gathered around. A family. black family gathered around the table. You know what keeps the black family together? Community. This was nice.

What? We know what? Chicken. Like, chicken. You know what I'm going to do? I want to do this. I'm calling out to all brands. Call out to all brands that use niggas.

And use chicken. I'm serious. I want to do a revolutionary chicken commercial. I want to do a black family. It's easy. It's easy. I want to do a black family that's like, because let's just go take the trope all the way.

I want to do a chicken commercial that combines the chicken with like protest. You know? No, because look, why? They already do it. They already put us at Chicken Central. So look, this is my chicken commercial. Somebody's going to do this because they did it with Pepsi with the protest. Somebody's going to, people who go, no justice.

no peace. No justice, no peace. Everybody's walking down the street. Hey, hey, we want justice. And then they start falling over because they're famished. Oh, my God. They're famished. And oh, we can't, we can't march. We're not going to be able to march that much further, Jamal, if we don't have something in our stomachs. And all of a sudden they turn around and they see a Popeye's lady out. She got the plastic over her hands. You know what I mean? She got the shit on. She got the Popeye's apron. She's like, come on, babies.

Come on, it could be that same Black Popeyes lady that people thought actually owned Popeyes. Come on, babies. They go in there. They eat chicken. But they get so fucked up off chicken that they forgot they was protesting. Now, they don't even want to protest no more because they got the chicken in their stomachs and everything is right with the world.

and then it's Popeyes we'll take the edge off niggas that's that's the whole commercial the woman comes out there then they all get jobs at Popeyes and they don't even and then like more protesters are walking by and they're like

do you want to come protest? And they're like can't protest because we got an eight piece family meal deal for 1399 look if they're going fuck with us why there was a wife person that just went that passed in the back of your room that was katy that was katy see what i'm saying

the white people who like you talk about you talk about this type of shit and they appear katy wasn't in here for nothing else and then katy just popped up i saw it out of the corner you were talking you have white people you were talking about katy popped up Katie popped up are you at you literally walked on me sorry no you got seen the white i saw white person I felt they had to be messy and you didn't feel it Wait, you literally just described they clone Tyrone. I need you to understand this has been done. Remember when they weren't protesting,

but you remember they were being controlled by the chicken, whatever was in the chicken. You already, this has been done. But here's the thing, but I get it. This is the person, it's not the first time it's been done. Shout out that they clone Tyrone. I'm looking for a fucking sequel soon. All right?

Yes, so good. But this is what I'll say. I'll say, don't beat around the bush of the idea. that chicken controls niggas. Because this is what the bottom line of these commercials is. Don't beat around the bush of the fact that chicken controls us. Just come right out and say that niggas are under chicken control. We sing for the chicken.

We dance for the chicken. The chicken makes us spell at jingo. Ray Shremant is in the chicken. Don't beat around the bush. Just fucking talk to us and tell us that we're controlled by the chicken. Anyway, what did you do this weekend? I went to stage coach. first time ever

it was a lot of fun I had a really good time Hawats Hawax Yes but not that there were a lot of black people there because there weren't but I saw a black artist

and that was really cool I finally met Compton Cowboys We talked about him on this podcast Randy Savage got to see him perform. Savvy. Savvy. It's not Randy Savage. It's Randy Savage. Randy Sabby. Rest a piece of macho, though. Randy Sabby. They had a whole installation. They told me they've been

doing it for three years. They had the horses out. They had a DJ. They were doing interviews. I got some merch. I'm wearing my Compton Cowboys shirt right now with the horses. It was really cool. Really cool to see them do their thing. Saw Willie Jones. fan of him. We're going to have him on this podcast as well. Seeing Culture Country, I saw Shibuzi. I saw Britney Spencer. I like Shibuzy.

Have you heard of Shibuzy song, Tipsy? Yeah, yeah. I heard it a lot, actually, this weekend. I love that record. You know what? People are coming at Shibuzi, though, because Shibuzzi's not juring. And they're saying that Shibuzi... It's a conversation I have.

Mm-hmm. So they're saying that the black. country roots that were taken back, that Shabuzzi is cosplaying. That's what they say. He's not a Nigerian. He's from Houston. He's from Houston.

Okay, so he's from Houston. People are saying that this black country thing is only for the black Americans. We have to have a conversation about the, because black Americans, we share a lot. We have to have a conversation about whether or not this serves anything. A serious conversation. I want to do a whole, just like we did some of it of the sexes. I want to do a whole black American diasporate conversation,

whether or not this actually serves anything, because it's like I'm getting into Shibuzi and I'm listening to the song. And then I got people hit me up like, oh, man, that's not a black American, these country roots that we're talking about. So we're gatekeeping? gates are meant to be keep. The question is, who are you supposed to keep them from? That's what I'm saying.

Yeah. If you don't have a gate, a gate doesn't make sense if you're not paying attention to who you're letting in. You might as well not have the gate. I don't understand the term gatekeeping. You might as well not have a gate, right? Of course, when you have a cultural gate, everyone gate keeps their culture.

The question is which culture is shared? and for what reason and which culture are we just being divisive for no reason when we're talking about? I think that's a fair question. It is a fair question, but I really want to tap into it when it comes to a Shibuzi doing country music. That's why, that's my question. Are we supposed to be gatekeeping that? I don't know. We got to have these folks on to talk about it.

I will tell you this. I'm not going to stop listening to that record. That record is crazy. Shibuzi didn't tap into something. Shibuzi is the man. I will say this. At stagecoach, everybody thought Beyonce was coming, myself included. The Cowboy Carter flag was flying over every show.

There were trucks with Cowboy Carter all over them. She allegedly was there, but everybody thought she would come out on stage, right? Got to see Willie Nelson. Incredible to see a legend like that. They thought she might come out with Willie Nelson. Post Malone thought they were she was going to come out of stage

didn't. A lot of artists that were on the album Cowboy Carter were there performing. And I really feel like this was a lost opportunity for Beyonce to be able to do something to bring even more light to these emerging or already established black country musicians.

Can be real with you? Am I crazy for thinking that Beyonce is already over the country thing? no you're not because she's probably already working on act three yeah Beyonce came in stuck her stuck her foot in country music I feel like Beyonce already over it man Beyonce are trying to come to a goddamn stagecoast it's hot out there like it is it I feel like she already she did it it came out I think people thought it was going to be whack

it wasn't she proved it and now I feel like Beyonce on to the next thing I haven't she hasn't been doubling down on this country shit this this is the only thing I would say on that I think yes I don't think she's taking this tour. I thought she would come to big. A lot of stagecoach talk, by the way. Just let you know. There's a lot of talk about stagecoach here. Okay. Just let you know. This is a lot of stagecoach talk. Okay.

You only, because you weren't there. That's why you don't want to talk about it. This is the last thing I'm going to say about this. The only pushback I'm going to give to that is the entire, a lot of her marketing for this was bringing a voice and a light to artists that have been doing this for a while.

Because she can, because she's Beyonce. And so to go hand in hand with that, it would have made sense to continue to do that, especially because so many of them, Tanner Adele, I saw her rolling around. So many people on the album were there. Just a lost opportunity, my opinion. This could be. Look, we got to talk about the White House Correspondents dinner. Did you watch it? Oh.

So enough about stagecoach. Let's move on to, because why? Because you were doing commentary? No, I didn't watch it. with the stage coach. Can I ask you a question? Do you normally watch the White House Correspondent Center

or is because you were working for CNN this weekend? No, I watch it. I don't watch it. No, you don't. I do. Yeah, I watch what happens. I want to see because it's a relevant

political thing. It's kind of like the All-Star weekend of politics. You know, we don't have to talk about it. Let me tell you something right now. No, it's not a political thing. It's supposed to be bipartisan. We don't have very many topics. Okay?

It's not been great. But let me tell you this. We don't have to talk about the whole White House correspondent's dinner. That's what I was doing this weekend. I was in D.C. I'll say this. I found a new artist that I like

and then we can get into some other stuff that we want to discuss. I found a new artist that I like, okay? You ever heard of J.P.? Josh Gilly? No. You ever heard this record? Hold on for a second.

You ever heard bad bitty? No. I can hear a thing. I can't hear anything. We can't hear. That's enough. I don't want to talk about it anymore. Let's talk about the house correspondent's dinner on the other side of this.

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Bonus is non-withdrawable and expires seven days after receipt. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See terms at fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. Okay, so Colin Yose was the host of the White House Correspondence Dinner. And let me tell you why I think it's relevant to talk about it this year,

if we haven't talked about it before. First of all, I was covering the White House Correspondence dinner for CNN. It was me and an esteem panel that included Kerry Champion and Van Jones. That is a great panel. Do they, so you were doing commentary as it was going on? Is this something new? What are you talking about?

The panel that you were on, like, y'all were watching it and comment. They do it at the year. So, yeah, I was there from, I was there from seven to midnight. Talking about the correspondence center. Okay. But not just the correspondence dinner. We were talking about other topics, relevant topics. We were talking about Christine Nome.

and the shooting of the dog. Have you heard about this? Of course I did. What are your thoughts about this? Let's discuss this. Let's discuss South Dakota Governor Kristy Noam in her, we also have to make a catchings on the show. You'll let you guys know to come up a little bit later. South Carolina, South Dakota Governor Christine Nome in a book revealed that she shot her dog cricket.

because cricket was both a poor hunting dog and cricket was also a dog that attacked a neighbor's chicken. She couldn't get through to cricket. Cricket was 14 months old, so she had to put that chop on cricket, rest in peace cricket. She divulged all of this in a book in great detail. And then she talked about the fact that her daughter walked out, her kid walked out and said, where's cricket money? It was one of the most bizarre stories I've ever seen, a political figure tale. I've no idea why you would tell a story like that.

When you saw her divulge this, what did you think? Well, allegedly, there was a goat she killed as well. She went on a fucking rampage. She killed a dog, a goat, and she's also said that she's killed a couple of horses since. Okay. This motherfucker is going nuts. She's out here. She's the fucking Richard Ramindad, Richard Ramirez, as night stalker of

animals. She's the son of Sam. She's the son of ASPCA. Christy Noam. I've now understanding. She's an animal killing son of a... Go ahead. Well, this all came out because she's writing a book and I think it was The Guardian. They got an advance. Yeah. So I don't, I don't, to answer your question, I don't know why she would write this. We don't know what the rest of the chapter or the book says. obviously there's no justification for going around and shooting animals because you think they can't be trained or because you think that they are mean or nasty, which is some of the words that she used. She could have taken the animal to a trainer. She could have re-hom the animal.

There are things that she could have done a lot of things other than just shooting them to get rid of the problem. This is disgusting. This speaks to her character. And I hope people are outraged. It'll be interesting to see how, I mean, I'm curious as to how y'all discussed it when you were on the panel, but it'll be interesting to see the response that people have in light of other public situations with public figures or publicly discussed, I should say, situations with public figures and how they dealt with dogs. Because she is also someone who you're making a face.

Talking about Vic? Of course. The way that that was, the way that was discussed in hand on. curious as to how people are going to do this because she's somebody who they're also saying could be a running mate with Trump. Yeah, that's out. I think the dog killing situation has destroyed that. I just wonder why you would say something like this.

We'll talk about the correspondent's dinner in a second. I think the victim is interesting. What? What do you mean why I would say something like this? Go ahead. I think the I think you know I just

it's always like I felt when this came out I felt bad for Vic and you should because let me tell you something a nigga Vic was crazy man

when you read that like what the Nick was going that nigga Vic was he was that was but he he he rehabilitated himself

in the world of doggy and he did what he had to do, you know, to come back. But I think that was some brutal shit going on over there at Bad News Kettles. But like just the bringing up of Vic is I knew that it was going to happen because everybody, like they jumped on Vic and it was all of this stuff. It's like whatever. In this situation, I think, and I don't want to read too much into this and go too deep. So, but I have to be real. this sort of

brutal Darwinism is kind of how I view the right. So think about this. You have a dog and the dog is essentially a pup.

14 months. I remember when my very own bozzarly was 14 months. He was, he was still running around. I mean, he's still kind of running around now. He was still running around going nuts, doing the whole thing. But if you value the dog, if you value the life of the dog. The life of it, yes. If you value what the dog can become, then you know what you do? You invest into the dog. You invest time into the dog. You invest patience into the dog. You invests

compassion to the dog. The dog ate your shoe, the dog chew on the side of the thing. If there's a belief at what the dog could be, which is someone that adds to your family, which is something that has its own sanctity of life because it is a living being, it deserves to be here because it is here, then you take the time to invest into the dog and build the dog up. You understand, dogs don't get it sometimes right away. They come from different types of situations. You also understand that if the dog is poorly trained, it could be your fault. It could be the environment that you created for the dog that doesn't have enough structure, that doesn't have enough balance, that doesn't have enough reward for the dog.

To me, there's a certain school of politics and cultural theory that says people and things are things that you invest into, things that you forgive mistakes for, things that you rehabilitate, and you honor the life and the entire life of someone by showing that, by schooling,

by all of that. And then there is another part of it that represents this, like I said, brutal allegiance to social Darwinism that just says, anything that's not acting the way you wanted to, you just eliminate it. Because there's something better behind it. There is a dog that would get it.

There is a person that would get it. So kill them or throw them in jail and just elevate the next thing. Forget about the life right there. And I'm sorry, this is the way I think a lot of these people on the right are. I think a lot of them believe that people are born bad, that some of them are untrainable, that some of them are unredeemable, that some of them are the drudges of society, and that we do society a favor and they do themselves a favor when they eliminate those people or those dogs or whatever they are and just move on to the next thing that is good.

And it's a hard choice, but it's a choice of leadership. And that's what she said. So when I see that, when I see someone do something like that, I think who are the people that are being elevated that don't have to pay for leadership, that don't have the compassion for leadership, that don't have the empathy for leadership. And I see that so much, but it's a stat for some people that you can be hard, crushing,

that you'll smash people under your boot. The moment I saw that, the dog killer in her, I thought, oh, there's a Republican. I'm just being for real. I don't like to get into the whole politics of it and cast people in these roles as much. A MAGA Republican.

But at the same time, I don't want to absolve the Republican Party from the course and cynical way that they typically deal with American citizens and have dealt with them from a while now. Remember, compassionate conservatism was a thing because the understanding was that conservatism wasn't compassionate. Oh, I'm a compassionate conservative. do. Why should compassion be a stat? So when I saw her, I'm like, oh, makes a lot of sense. You know, I get that. I come from a long line of hunters, a long line of outdoorsman. I don't hunt anymore having hunted for a long time. I'm obsessed with animals. I'm going to be a vegetarian one day. I can already tell you right now. I'm getting to the point to where it's harder to me. It's harder for me to eat animals. I don't believe that. I don't believe that. Love animals. I saw a video of a woman in a fight with a chicken. And I felt so bad for the chicken.

This video has been going viral this woman. The chicken attacked her. And then her get back on the chicken to me was draconi. She put them fucking hands on this chicken. The chicken attacked her though?

Yeah, but the chicken the chicken got off on her. Right? So when we're talking about this, we have to discuss what appropriate responses are. So I'm going to describe the video for you. Okay.

So the chicken, she's walking through like a factory or something. I don't know where they are. They're in some other country. I can tell it's not America though. And the chicken is kind of like, yo, what's up? And it pecks her. The chicken pecks her. The chicken pecks her. The chicken gets off on her first. No, no bullshit. The chicken starts it.

And then she turns around and she looks at the chicken. She's like, yo, what the fuck you think you're fucking with? And she takes her hand and she slaps the chicken. And then she slaps the chicken again. And right then, in my mind, the chicken's mind is right. the chicken the chicken's like oh i fucked up this is somebody that's not afraid of me because normally i feel like this chicken when he peck somebody or she but it's definitely a he because i think it's a rooster when he peck somebody normally they freak out and they run not this motherfucker this motherfucker

was ready for chicken drama pick the chick slap the chicken twice pick the chicken up wrung his neck rolled the chicken around through the chicken kick the chicken and then there's another of this person with a shovel smacking the shit out of the chicken and I felt like it went too far. Yes, that went, that's too far. Yeah, I think we can all agree that the moment she started

taking it up and twirling around, we had gone too far. We had gone too far. Yeah, I want to find her, this chicken-assaulting woman, and I want to put her in the ring with somebody who can give her a little business. I want another animal to get the chickens get back.

Okay? A bird. I want another bird to take up for the chicken. Let's move on. Let's move on. This episode is brought to by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer,

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What did you? Well, I guess you watch it every year. So I went last year. I thought it was a cool experience. You went last year? Yes, you know, Vince. I talked about this. Hold on. See, this is my issue with you. If you've actually been to the shit, why is it such, if you've been to it, why is it such a big deal that me, someone who's interested in political theater, not politics as much as I am in political theater?

why is it so hard to believe that I would watch the White House Corresponders dinner annually? I just didn't find it. It's a cool experience to go to. You know, they call it nerd prom. You see everybody from sports figures to actors to reality TV, to politicians.

You know, I saw some of my favorite people I love to watch. It was a cool experience. But to sit and I didn't know that people sit and commentate on it and analyze what's going on. And I was like, oh, okay, I don't know if it's that interesting. That's more of what I thought. Interesting enough you to fly out of the way to D.C. and get all dressed up, whatever.

It's like, that's classic rates, right? It said, it's classic race. It was an experience. It was a cool experience. So this is why I would say. Okay, so number one, I'll say something. I said this on CNN and child seeing in for having me out there. The flight back was the worst experience of my life.

I have to say something right now. Not the worst experience of my life. been through Hurricane Katrina, but I have to sense of me right now. I found the worst airport in America. Reagan, Dulles? Dulles. Dulles is the worst airport I've ever been to. It is by far the, dulles is terrible.

I don't think so. I want to hear from everybody what's the worst airports you ever been to. Dulles to me, I'm talking about I've been a little small airports. all over the place. Dulles to me is the worst airport ever. It's the worst. It's terrible. So I hated it.

I hated it. I'm sure you loved it. So look, here's the thing. Here's the thing about the White House Correspondens dinner this year. It was decidedly high leverage to me. And I'll tell you why. Normally, this is, like I said,

it's the All-Star weekend. Everybody gets together. It's a party event. But now, anytime the president speaks, there it's a referendum on his energy, his mental acuity, and what he's able to, to message, right? Because they're in a dead heat scene and poll came out today

that has Trump up six points over Joe Biden. Things have been tightened as of late, but that was a little bit of a surprise to me this morning. It depends on which poll you're talking about, but still obviously Trump is edging Joe Biden right now. In the grand scheme of things, most people have it tied. If you go to like a lot of the five,

38 stuff or some of the other stuff, it's pretty much tied. And one of the reasons why it would be that way is because of what people believe about the mental acuity and the energy and the stamina of Joe Biden. So whenever the president talks about where it is, if it's an interview or if it's the White House Correspondents in her, it's sort of going to be a referendum among his mental state and whether or not he can leave the country in the next four years. That's going to be the best thing that people are going to criticize him about besides the border and a couple of other things.

So I thought he was awesome in that respect, Joe Biden. I thought he took it to Trump. This is around the same time that he was on Howard Stern and said that he would debate Trump, which I think he should. I thought he was awesome. I thought he was funny. I thought he was self-deprecating. I thought that he showed a little bit of, um, of Hutzpah, if you will. I thought Colin Yose was good.

I saw a lot of criticism for him. Uh, yeah, I thought it was good. A lot of criticism for him. He came out to a full. blown endorsement of Joe Biden at the end. He said that his grandfather voted for Joe Biden before he passed away. He did that because he thought that

Joe Biden was a decent man. I'll tell you what I didn't see at the White House correspondence dinner. Of all the jokes that were made. And these were supposed to be the most biting political critiques that one could get. There was no talk about what's going on in Gaza. There was very little

acknowledgement of the protest that was outside of the White House Correspondents there. They didn't touch on it. They didn't discuss it. It wasn't brought up. So much so that it slipped my mind to address it or bring it up when I was on the panel.

That that was of all the things that Joe Biden is being criticized about that were talked about at the White House Correspondence Center. The one thing that he's being criticized about more than anything right now, that wasn't brought up in jest or in any serious way was the fact that we young people all over the country are protesting what they believe to be a genocide

happening in Gaza right now. And another thing was this. And I'd have to go back and watch again with a fine-toothed comb. But the White House Correspondence dinner is a celebration of a free press. It's a celebration of journalists that go to hot spots all over the world and put their safety in danger

and put themselves in harm's way in order to bring people the truth and to bring people's stories that they feel like they have to see need to see and have to see. And when you have as many journalists that have been harmed and killed in this present war as have been killed.

Some believe recklessly and violently, some believe intentionally. The fact that the safety of journalists covering stories all over the world, and particularly in hot zones like Gaza, that there wasn't an affirmation from anyone

about how we should protect journalists, the access that journalists deserve and how we care about the safety of journalists in spots like that, that that wasn't raised. I thought that was interesting and a missed opportunity for people who are supposed to be celebrating journalism and celebrating the sanctity of the First Amendment and the right of people that know what's going on in different places. Interesting.

Interesting to the last part of what you said in discussing the free press and bringing acknowledgement of the sacrifice that journalists make. Because when I went, there was a lot of talk. I think this is interesting about the Ukraine war. But that when it comes to this one, they don't. A lot, like the whole thing was about that. And it was actually very emotional as they, you know, were showing clips. And then, you know, when they were honoring certain journalists and they were showing the work.

they've done and what they've reported. I learned a lot. And so it's so interesting the way they're handling this one. Not surprising, but interesting, because I didn't watch this year, but compared to what they did last year.

Now, I have a question for you. With the protest, and I don't know if, as you guys were commentating, they were showing, did they show outside what it looks like going in?

Because I know they show a carpet, which is very chaotic. Maybe once the, the panel that I was on, and just to be fair, was more, the job was to commentate on what was happening during the actual White House correspondent. That's what it was sort of about. Commentating on that, like it was a football game or whatever. I think the only political topic that we got into outside of that was the dog. killing cut, Kristineau.

Okay. I only say because it's a very chaotic scene outside. And there usually is some, like when I'm with, there's some form of protest. But, you know, this one was bigger. We had people that were lying in the street, bringing awareness to what's going on. And so I was curious if part of the reason you didn't talk about it is because they didn't show any of it. But you just explain, you know, how you guys were, were. or what was shown for you guys to talk about.

But my question to you is, why are you, you said they didn't bring it up. They didn't talk about, what's going on. Are you shocked by that? Because to me, I am, by no means what I expect

Biden to get up there and bring any awareness or discussion about the war. Yeah, I'm not shocked. But, you know, we have our own platform and even though

we struggle to get it right or not struggle to get it right we struggle to be enough for anyone sure it's important to not be blinded by the fact that at college campuses

we are we are dangerously close in my opinion to letting no we're not dangerous to close anything we're there so this particular issue is it echoes to me

so much through other issues that we've had. Let's tell you what I mean by that. The First Amendment, student protest, I'll reorganize one more time intellectually. There's a belief. And the belief is whoever you like can get away with whatever they want. Whoever you like can get away with whatever they want.

Believe it or not, people struggle with that all the time. Everyone, whoever you are listening to this right now, you struggle with it. You struggle with, quote, unquote, what your fave does. You struggle with it. It's more difficult to toss something that you've invested in. It's the same reason why people stay in bad businesses, why people stay in bad relationships, people stay at bad jobs. Like you hear women all the time say,

hey, I wasted this much time with someone. You hear men say I wasted this much time with someone. If you've been there for a month, you want equity for that month. If you've been there for a year, you want equity for that year. You want it to admit something. And the moment that you cut and run from it,

you feel like you've wasted that time, that time has been gone. That same thing exists in social relationships and parasycial relationships. also exists in political relationships, but it also exists conceptually. Like, conceptually, what does it mean when your fave does something that you disagree with? Right. And in this particular situation, Israel is the fave of America.

Zionism is the fave of America. It is. It's been a longstanding relationship that's been geopolitically advantageous to America for a very long time. And so things that are central to the American can experience and understanding one being protest are now coming under fire. We're asking if that's okay to do that. We're asking what the limits of protest are. We're asking how protest should be done and what you need to do and all of that stuff. And this happens, right? The Republicans are free speech absolutists until Colin Kaepernick protests the flag.

Until he uses this free speech to protest the flag. And then after he uses that, cancel them, taking stuff away, whatever happens to when he deserves. And so I say all that to say that, like, as tepid as people feel like my response to this has been, my principle on what people are allowed to say, how they're allowed to say it, and particularly young people who have the advantage of being able to be hyper-focused on the cause,

the strength of that shouldn't be ignored. It shouldn't be ignored on CNN. It shouldn't be ignored on MSNBC. shouldn't be ignored by us. What's happening very now is very important. And there are all kinds of questions that should be asked. There are all kinds of distinctions that should be made. But the reality is,

you have a group of people out there who are trying to change and shape their world. And look, I talk about young people all the time. The young people out there that feel like they're going to change the world to where they don't have to come into the office. I don't think you're going to do that, but God speak, like the ones that think that they're going to get a four-day work week with six-day hours and nap and nap chambers.

I don't think that's going to happen. But I don't think that's going to happen, but Godspeed. And in this particular situation, I think the most belittling thing that you can do to these young people is to ignore them or to cast them as villains. and a lot of the mainstream media is attempting to do both. Even if in spots you could say that they're wrongheaded. Real quick, last thing I'll say about this. After 9-11, there was a group of black students that got together at Southern to talk about it.

Right? Everybody was scared. It's very scared. I was 21 when 9-11 happened. So I'm right in the throes of will I get the opportunity to have an adulthood or is World War III coming? These existential crises happen to almost every generation and that was mine, right? Maybe in the 80s it was whatever, Cuban-Michial crisis in the 60s, whatever, the 70s were full of strife, hyperinflation and gas crises and all that stuff, whatever, crime through the movie.

I remember I was sitting down one time and we're students, we're kids, kids, right? Young adults. And one of my homeboys, who was one of the smartest of us, we were talking about the actual hit on the World Trade Center, right? And one of my homeboy says,

well, there are really no innocent people inside the building. And I was like, what do you mean? He was like, every single person in that building is an instrument of American capitalism. So the building itself was a grotesque museum

of the domination and exploitation of Western power around the world. I remember I thought to myself, I was like, this is a smart guy. This is a guy who had already seated that he was seated by intellectual superiority. I was like, wait, what? Yeah.

I was like, so just the black lady that worked there and she worked in the World Trade Center and I don't know, she don't have to be, let's not make her a janitor or whatever. Let's make her a receptionist. She answered phones at whatever joint. She going there and somebody ran a plane into her

and that's dope. And what I realized, is that two things happen at the same time, a lot of times on college campuses. One, you have young adults on college campuses that have this fierce truth of this intellectual virtue. They're learning all of these things and they're seeing the world and they don't have families yet and they don't have bills to pay yet. They can spend all day on an issue.

They're oftentimes so righteous and spirit on something that it's inspirational. And at the same time, what they don't have is a full grasp on the real world and an actual victim and what it means to have to sacrifice, not saying all of them, for family. a sacrifice for your family, or to make a decision to go be someplace or work someplace that you don't want to, um, of, of how capitalism shrinks your brain. It hasn't happened to them yet.

Which is why their protest is both so important to me and why it's also important to be patient with them, to be, open to the ways in which they get it wrong. Now, by and large, the protests on these college campuses are not as the media has portrayed them. Sure. They're not.

By and large, when I tell you, by and large, there's been a media spin on what's happening all over the place that, to me, is clearly pro-Zionists, right? Where it isn't, I would say there is some stuff that's going on that's deeply, deeply disturbing. Right? Deeply disturbed. However, what I would say to that,

and I say this all the time, I'm consistent here. I know I'm joining on, and I apologize to the audience, I apologize to you, Rachel. But I've said this before. When someone comes out and they have all of this, and they have these tweets from back in the day, and they have all of this stuff, whatever I said before, I'm like, I get it,

but also remember this is a kid, that this is this is a young person this is this is someone that you have to have a little empathy and compassion to and sometimes you have to understand energy and intent when you're looking at this so you know all over the place when they're talking about that these students are Hamas and these students are terrorists and these students are they want the death and destruction of their Jewish classmates

No, I don't believe that to be true at all. I believe that sometimes when they're as on fire as they are right now, that they don't have the capacity or the desire to think about how some things might make people around them feel. And as much as we have to be critical of that part of it, we also have to understand that a lot of these people are learning how to live a world that doesn't make sense to them because of the way their minds are informing them. So I just, I think that my goal, I think other people's goals as being older people should be to be the connective tissue between safety, activism, a very needed radicalism,

and an understanding of how to exist as a good human citizen. And I think most people would rather just say terrorists, terrorist, terrorist, or freedom fighter, freedom fighter. I think these kids are, the last thing I say, I think a lot of the young adults here, I want to call it kids, a lot of the young adults here, I think they're, I agree with their protest. I agree with the way that they're comporting their protest.

I think that they are doing enough. I see a lot of, I think a lot of, I see a lot of them reaching out to students that might feel unsafe or whatever. But even in their righteousness, it's always important to think about how what you do make somebody feel. That's the lesson that I've learned being an older man.

The lesson I've learned being an older man is like part of being a citizen and being in the society is juggling what you're going to do to get to what you're, to your goal and your end and how, what toll that takes on somebody else. And when you're doing that equation, most of the time, is fuck how they feel.

It is and it has to be. But it's not like that all the time. And that's the best I can do. What are you? Well said. You said it. You said it all. It was very well said.

I agree with everything you said. And you don't have to apologize for going on and on when you're making your point. And you're passionate about your point. And I think a lot of people need to hear that, self-included. So, well said. Also, we're going to get off this now, but I have a surprise topic on a spring on you. We're going to bring to Mick Kachin's on, but I have a surprise topic I want to spring on you. I have a list here.

Of surprise topics? Wait, what does that say? It says playbook requirements. Okay. I think we're out of time. No, no, no, no, no, no. This is going to be our first playbook coaching session real quick with Rachel. We have to bekechings coming on right after this. But all right, Rachel, these are Playbook requirements, and I want to know, like, what they are.

Okay. So I have three categories for Playbook requirements. One is physical. These are for you to tell me. One are the physical requirements, okay, because I'm getting deep into the playbook. It's almost made. Two are the life requirements for the playbook. Okay.

life requirements. And the third are what I like to call the intangibles. Why should I be on the lookout intangible wise? Okay. Okay. Okay. Rachel, physical requirements, playbook wise. Let's go.

I'm writing this down. I don't really have. I mean, I need to be attracted to you, but I'm not going to sit here and say, you got to be this height. I literally talk about this in my book of essays. I'm no longer doing that. You got to be this height.

You got to, you know, like, your body's got to look like this. You got, I'm, the only physical requirement is at the moment I've come home. Okay. So black. Preferably. Preferably. Okay. So what you say preferably.

But if I'm like swept off my feet by something out, by, like, for example, even, no, no, no. You white slide. You're white slide. No, no, no, no. let me explain something. I don't want to, like, because I talk about this is my book, I don't want to count myself out, right?

I literally say if you have a list, throw it out. But what I would say is, even when it came to The Bachelor, it wasn't something that I was looking for. I was like, okay, this took me by surprise. I'd have to be taken by surprise to stray away from the list. But at the moment, I'm home.

You're coming home. Okay, so would you say this is an 80% requirement that he's black? Or 90? Maybe higher. Okay, so that's 90. 90%. 90%. Okay, so black.

So give me a spectrum of attractiveness. We're talking about, let's say, on a, I don't want a pretty boy. No pretty boy. No pretty boy. See, we're getting somewhere. No pretty boys. Ashley, make sure we keep all these bullet points down. No pretty boy.

Thank you very much. Ashley's doing a fantastic job. So no pretty boys. Okay. Is there any other nose? And also pretty boy. That doesn't mean attractive. Pretty boy is a mentality, right?

So like it's a... It's a mentality. It's a mentality. I don't want that. I'm going to put that down for physical and for intangibles. No pretty boys. We all know what you're talking about, by the way. We know exactly.

So anybody is like, what does she mean pretty boy? What does she? You know who the pretty boys are. You fucking know. Okay. All right. No pretty boys, whatever. Anything else physically?

Because listen, I won't let you know. You have to be taller than me. You have to be taller than me. taller than Rachel and Rachel is 5 foot 6 With Hills So what are you in life? Five for five I'm five four

Five four. You're five four? You're five four? Yeah. You project taller. I was going to say like five eight. Yeah. Thank you.

So no one shorter than five for five Which. No, no, no, no. With hills. So nobody's shorter than five, ten. Nobody shorter than five ten. Yeah. No one shorter than 5'10.

So one of my homeboys, you're out. No way. What is he? Five, nine? He's out. Okay? I'll tell you what he is. It's out.

Good guy. Well, I told you. I don't like that. He's out. Good guy. I told him he was out already. Come back. Come back.

Come back. Come back. I told him he was out already. Nobody told him he was out already. It's very. See, I don't like that. But he's extremely well. He's extremely well.

But he's, I hate the life. So 5. So 5.8. So 5.8. Okay, we'll bring it down to 5.8. So he's back in. All right.

Because I'm 58 with Hills. Also, and I don't know, this isn't physical. I need to be able to have a conversation. Like, we need to be, I'm not a safe. That's a life of part. Okay. I'm not a sexual. But I need, like, I want.

Like, I want to have conversations with you where you observe things about life. Like, I want to go deep with you. I don't want to just talk about particular situations. I want us to have deeper conversations. That's something that's important to me. You're not sapiensexual sexual. I wouldn't define myself that way. I will put down here at the bottom, will fuck dumb niggins.

Okay. Again. No, no, no. No, no. You made it clear. Okay. So one of my homeboys, you're back in. I told him that he was far too stupid for Rachel.

And he knows a lot about his sport, but I told him that he was far too stupid for Rachel. And he was upset. But you're back in. I think anybody would be upset, but you said that. I want to be able to laugh with you. You ain't got to be the funniest person. You don't have to be the funniest person in the room. I do not need you to be a comedian.

And I can be a little corny, so that saves you too. But I just like want to be able to enjoy each other. You know how you go to restaurants and you see those couples who are just sitting there? They have nothing. They're not talking. They're just looking at their food, looking at the restaurant. That is my worst fear. We need to be able to enjoy each other's company.

That's Funny plus enjoyable I would say charismatic Right there Charismatic might be the word Charismatic is some charisma You don't need to be the life of the party Because I can do that

But you gotta have You gotta be charismatic Okay so is there Anything else physical? Shoulders Are you into thighs Are like What if he had like real tiny feet

Or tiny hands What if you had tiny hands Can a nigga with tiny hands get it done? I'm not married to that. You could have, I'm not married to that. I'm not even married. You don't have to have like, because I think people are going to look at my ex

and think that's exactly what I want. But I've talked about this in the podcast. You know, like I don't need the person with the abs. That's not. Abbs, okay. Don't have to have them. Don't have to have them. Dad bod.

Are dad bonds okay? That's fine. Wow. Wow. Okay. Boy. I'll tell you what. There's a couple of people that are in that didn't think they were in.

This is very fun. Dad bombs. Okay. I'm not like, I want you to be like, you need to be concerned about, you know, like your health,

but you don't have to be walking around here looking like a great guy. Somebody to eat pork with. Okay, cool. All right. Real quick. Let's stay. Let's go back to life requirements. Well,

let's talk about it. Let's talk about it. I don't want to put a number on it because you have to make you have to make we have to be you don't have to make more than me but you got to make money got to make money got to make money okay how about this

I have a theory about this I have a saying you want to see it yes I think putting amount of money on what someone has to make for love is cynical. I have a theory. The theory is that I got you theory. I love that. I love that.

I'm in a business that fluctuates. So I need to know if it's a downtime for me, you got me. That is a perfect way to put it. I got you. Like if it's like, because, you know, we up, we got, we up, we down. If we down, I got you. That's all it. It has to be a I got you situation.

Yes. And I'm sure for you, you have no problem being that I got you on the other side. It's a relationship, right? Of course. You don't want an extended period of I got you. I got you can't last like, you know, 10 years, five, six years. But I got you is what you're talking about. So that's the level of security that you want, someone that, I think you've said this before as well.

I need physical, financial, and safety. I need to feel those things. things. I also need you to be ambitious. Ambition. I don't want a dreamer. I want somebody who's ambitious. Well, you want a dreamer, but you want a doer

as well. You don't want somebody as you know, Tem a camera. Nothing comes from dreaming but dreams. Oh, sitting around a little where everyone else is down the street. Nothing comes from talking us but sound out. We're tall we want to.

But the world still goes around and round. Okay. All right. Let's see. All right. So let's just do a couple of things. Age. What's too old?

Anything older than 55. Actually, I might be able to go to 60. 60? Because I was about to say, I know 60 or else that you would be. So we're going from Bachelor to Golden Bachelor here. Yeah. 60. What's too young? Anything less than 35?

Okay. Now, I'm just going to let you know that a couple of my homies in the LNBA I've reached out. And, okay, just just listen. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Because the playbook's getting serious. So a couple of my homies in the old LNBA have reached out.

These guys are not 35. Okay. They're They're not 35. Are they in their 30s? Are they in their 30s? One is. Here's the thing. It's hard to say, like, I prefer an athlete that's on their way out.

I believe. Okay. If I'm going to do this, I prefer, because I told my homeboy who plays in the league, I was like 45 to 55. He was like, I'm absolutely not doing that. I'm not introducing anybody 45 and 55. But I was like, I don't really know if I really know. want the, it depends, right? You could be younger than me and have gone through what you've gone

through and you're ready for something different. There's always an exception, but preferably, okay, I'm with it. I'm with it, 35. I don't want to count anybody out. There's always an exception. Like, because there's a thing, you don't have to have, let me say this about this list you're making, because this is already going too long. You don't have to have every one of these things, right? Maybe if you have, you have, three out of the five, we good. Uh-huh. Right?

Yeah. Yeah. All right. Last question I'll ask you about it. And this is an important question. By the way, we have to have Michael Herriot on pretty soon. Me and Michael talked about it. By the BBI.

No, we talked about Coleman Hughes's book. I want to have Michael Heron on. Coleman Hughes's book. I would almost want to facilitate a debate between Michael Heron and Coleman Hughes. That might be fun. Are by racials okay? Yes. That identifies black.

Why are you silent? Why are you poising? That's what I'm talking about. That's what I'm talking about. That's my sister. That's my sister. That's my sister. So black biracial's.

Can I say? You're getting me very excited. The fuck you're talking about. Niggott. What's you talking about? Whoa. What don't you say it? You're making a list.

You're taking a list. You're taking this series. You're writing it down. Yeah, all of this stuff is getting written down. Because look, I don't know if it was... So Rachel, let me tell you something real quick. I'll just be... So after the birthday party, the streets started talking.

People liked the way you looked at the birthday party. The birthday party was... The birthday party was apparently a good night for the playbook. Can I be honest? That was my goal. I was like, let me, I wanted to stunt for my birthday. People, people, it was a good night. So, so people were, people were, it was a good night for the, for the playbook.

So I just want to let, let people know that I'm draconian with this. And just, just let you guys know something to all my niggas out there. I've been knowing y'all. I've been knowing y'all. So just stop. No, it's not happening. I've been knowing y'all. I love y'all.

I love y'all. No. Niga, I know you. I know me. You know what I'm saying? I know me. And I know you. I know you.

No. It's not happening. It's not going to be my fault. Like, you know what I'm saying? I know you. So just let it go. It's like get, don't hit me up. Hit her up.

because if you hit her up and she win it, fine. But for some of y'all other ones, no way. Okay. It's out. I'm curious. I'm telling you, you're not. No. Some of these things, you got CTE.

Okay, I know you. It's not going to happen. All right. All right. Okay, so this is good. All right. So you have something to work with? Good.

Great. I do. I have something to work with. There's one white guy that I'm going to throw into this. Oh One white guy He must be He must be great

Because for you to say I'm going to throw him in He asked and I can't say no I'm not in a position professionally Um So So So

So So Uh And I can't say no So You'll Are we wait until the summertime To get this activated?

No, It's May May's to begin May? May? Yeah, May is the beginning. Two days from now. Yeah, it's very important.

I'm arranging these lists to a spreadsheet. Coley and I will go over this. But, but yeah, okay, good. On the other side is break. Hall of Famer Tamika Kitchens to talk about equity,

equality, and the rise of the WNBA. Did you know about one and three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimphaya, gusalcumab taken by injection, is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaques psoriasis, who may benefit from taking injections or pills or phototherapy,

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support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. All right. We have topics to talk about relating basketball. And when we're doing that, we have to talk to people who know what they're talking about, and we have a Hall of Famer in our midst, legitimately one of the greatest basketball players of all time, 15-year career to the Indiana fever, the WNBA, four-time Olympic gold medals.

Four Olympic gold medals? I even know you can do that. One of the most decorated players ever, Ricky the Year, all WNBA honors. We can get into a collegiate career with the University of Tennessee. It's just too much. You're too decorated, Tamika, for us to list out all your stuff. It would take up all the time we have in an interview.

We have Tamika Kensington to join us on the show today. I mean, just an absolute gym. We're very honored to have you today. How are you doing? Thank you for joining us on higher learning. I am great. I'm excited to be here with you guys. I don't know, though.

I saw the LSU back there in the back shoulder. Yeah, that right there. So I kind of was like, wait a minute. What's going on? But we all family. It's all our FCC. So we all family. I mean, you have no reason to have beef with us.

We never got close to you guys. But when you were playing, it was like a whooping every time. No. Anything I should be mad at Jews. No. Before we get into what we're talking about, there's new news,

the retirement of Candace Parker. What are your thoughts on the legacy that Candace has left to the game? Man, that was yesterday. It was interesting, right? To wake up and to know, you know, obviously, Pacers are in the playoff right now. So the hype around Indianapolis and Indiana is Pacers and WMBA training camp started. And then all of a sudden, when everything seems smooth,

we get that big announcement that Candace CP is retired. And, you know, honestly, I'm proud of her. What she's been able to do from college, like going back to our Tennessee days or her Tennessee days, I'm older than her. Just what she's been able to do from that scene to what she's doing in the WMBA. But I even look at all the stuff that she's doing off the court right now. And her family and just like she just got so many amazing things going on. So it's sad, right?

It's sad because you're losing a legend on the court and all that she's brought to the game. But it's kind of what I said. You close one chapter and you start another chapter and it's kind of been fun watching her. because she's been, like, kind of at the end of one chapter on the basketball on the court side, but opening other doors and, you know, all of the things that she's involved with. So I say, I told her, I'm like, it's just the beginning. Like, you've already accomplished so much in that life. And now it's kind of, now you literally flip the page and start a new chapter.

And what she's done so far on the court is nothing compared to what she's about to do. That's fantastic. So let's get into it. It seems to be a really pivotal and transformational time for the WNBA. People say that, obviously, with Caitlin Clark, Angel Reese coming into the league, both drafted in the first round. The insane popularity of the last two women's tournaments there, NTA tournaments. And with the success of NIL and the marketing of the players,

It seems like it's a different era in the WNBA. It's about to begin. When people say that, do you feel that's being overstated or do you agree? I agree. I totally agree. You know, it's interesting because people will ask me questions about, like, what would you have done? And how would you have done this when the reality is? I don't know.

Because none of that, like, social media had just started kind of toward the end of our career and just like the advancement of that, then you get to the pandemic. And I like to say, even from the women standpoint, the game and how it's transitioned, I will say that when we did Agumbo-Wale hit those shots,

Notre Dame, right before the pandemic, everybody's like to, actually during the pandemic. So think about the WMBA. We have the wobble in Florida. Everybody's at home. You're tuned in.

You're watching the game because what else do you have to do? Then you fast forward into, you know, the women's tournament. And I feel like every single year, there has been some aspect of something that has continued to kick off women basketball and then even just women sports in general. Now let's get to the last two years in women basketball. Of course, LSU, Iowa last year, championship games in Texas. My mom and I were at that game. The environment was like, it was crazy.

Add that to the NIL and you start seeing all the money trickling in for these players, the kids. Caitlin and Angel and, you know, a lot of other players have those opportunities that we didn't have. So, like, to even think about what would you have done past 10 to where we are present tense? You can't even imagine what that looks like. I know, in talking to Angel and just have those opportunities, you know, she has taken advantage of it. Caitlin Clark, the Caitlin, the Clark effect. We see it here. I'm in Indiana, so I see it everywhere I go.

Like, I've never talked about the Indiana fever as much as I have. as far as the last couple of years because of what she had bring and the new excitement of a rejuvenated sense of the fever everybody is trying to get tickets the cost of tickets has gone up people are complaining and I'm like what did you expect what happened because this is great for our game this is great for women basketball and as we continue to grow all these young girls and boys that have now somebody else to aspire and look up to last year we had the number one pick, Leah Boston, what she was able to do at South Carolina. So I just feel like we're in a great, we're in a pivotal time right now of seeing women

basketball and women's sports kind of turn that corner and hopefully we'll start to see from the lucrative standpoint, from the financial standpoint, we'll start to see it become more lucrative. I want to pick up on what you said about being more lucrative for the players. But first, as Van was announcing all of your amazing accomplishments, One thing you did not mention Van is that she is a member of Delta Sigma Theta sorority. Right. She is my soror.

Another one. Another, we band and I do it. That is right. Let's go. And from Texas. And from Texas. But I want to talk about what you were talking about about it being more lucrative for the players. In addition to all the attention that is surrounding the unit mentioned Kayla Clark, Angel Reese, South Carolina, all, all.

all the attention that collegiate women's basketball is getting a professional. Now people, because there are all these new fans, which is fantastic, are really paying attention to the paid disparity. There was the picture that was going around that showed what Caitlin Clark was making her first year versus what the number one player drafted in the NBA was making. Victor Wynnehama, yeah. Yes. What do you think needs to be done to increase the pay for, women playing professional basketball, professional sports, where do you see it going?

And do you think that this paid disparity can decrease in the future? I mean, I definitely feel like the pay disparity can decrease. Like, I feel like the women, where we started to where we are today is a lot different. And so, you know, even, I mean, sometimes it's hard to compare the WMBA to the NBA because the NBA has been around for 50 plus years. you know, Debbie NBA, we started, I mean, we haven't been around for 50 plus year. We're almost at 30. So there's a difference in 20 years.

However, I do feel like- 75 years the NBA has been around. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I'm tripping, right? 1946, yeah, yeah. That's a long time. But when you try to compare, when you try to compare the two leagues, it's hard to say, hey, we should be making X amount.

Now I set the foundation there, right, because we've come a long way. Now you're looking at these numbers, but what can we do? Pay for the ticket, you know? Like, you're going to, even we have fans here in Indiana that are complaining about the price of tickets because it definitely shot up. And, you know, Caitlin Clark, the effect of her being here in this city. And we saw it happen all last season, every single city she went to, it was sold out arenas, right?

So you're going to have to pay for tickets. Watch the game, when you look at the viewership, our numbers were up way over the men's numbers, but the amount of sponsorship and partnership dollars compared to, from the NCAA, for the women's game compared to the men, is flip, like it upside down. So we got to figure out, but I think there's little things that we need to do. They're starting to see, and I mean, I don't know about me and Van, like, you being the only male on this call, even during the NCAA tournament, I felt like they were more commercial

with our female athletes, student athletes, like our ballers over the men. So being able to have those opportunities from partnership, being able to have the NIL, being able for people to watch the games and come to the games and support, I mean, that's how you generate more income. The reason NBA and even from the college sports,

the reason that they are able to do what they do is because they have money just coaring in. We need those same dollars pouring into the women's side so now we can take those dollars and we can put them in salaries, we can put them in opportunities, and we can continue to increase, you know, viewership

on TV and continue to give these young ladies the platform to perform. You know, it's interesting. I think that for a long time, there was the, there was a thought that the women's game didn't have the

capability to be as compelling for people as the men's game did. You'd listen to people talking. They would be like, oh, the guys are flying around the dunking. They're playing the game above the rim. And that's like inherently more watchable. That, to me, that narrative started falling way before

the last two final fours. The women's game has been, has evolved and comes so far and's played at such a high level. I think that people that were watching it was like, this is a lot of fun to watch. We're talking about here on the podcast, a couple of seasons ago, we decided we were going to watch the WNBA. We're going to have a team.

I went on YouTube TV and I favorite of the team. Was watching the games. It's a lot of fun to watch during the summer. I think the economic proof of concept, honestly, is something that not even I thought was possible. With the fact that it's not even so much to me that everyone cared about the women's game. it was the disparity in care. Like the disparity and care between what the women's game was doing on college screens and what the men's game wasn't really doing was like shocking to me. It was like we could still be into the tournament,

just not the men's tournament. I don't want to disparage the guys, but there are things there at work. There's the one and done situation there. You don't get to learn the players as much. There's the G League. and some of the best guys going over there and all kinds of stuff.

But I say all that to say, with people talking about the paid disparity between the WNBA and the NBA, when people make these situations, do you think it's a fair comparison being that one league is so much more profitable than another league? It's been around for so much longer.

How do we have this conversation in a responsible way that identifies the economic realities while at the same time talking about what still can be done to support the women's game. So it doesn't become a culture war. It becomes how supported is the women's

game in its current iteration? I mean, I think that you look at what are ways, just like any problem, right? When we are problem solving, we don't necessarily look at the problem. We look at solution. We look at ways that we can become part

of the solution. And I think that's where you look at. The, yeah, I mean, the CBA, the collective bargaining agreement is about to come due for the WMBA. So I can only imagine NECA Agungameke, NECA is at the leave for the PA. So I can only imagine with her in the executive committee what they're starting to talk about, what issues they're starting to bring up. I think Kathy Englebird, our commissioner for the WMBA, and also looking for ways that the

every NBA has to figure out a way to compete and how do you keep these players from having to go overseas and play basketball. So that's another. But the biggest part of all of this is the financial element, as we keep talking about. But I think the solution is more people butt in the seat, like come to the game. Don't just come expecting the handout, come and pay for tickets and sit in the seats and cheer. You know, I do think that, you know, to your point band of what you brought up, being able to have those years in the college game and being able for people to follow you over the course of four years. I mean, whether you transfer or not, now you have all of these different teams that are watching, you know, all these fans that are watching you as you're transferring from one team to another team. But that fan base follows you to the next level.

You're not really seeing that, as it used to be, from the guy's side. So that's an area from the women's side that you are. I mean, Caitlin even said it. I expect all the Iowa fans to be in the same. We are not far away from Iowa. You saw it with Alia Boston. You saw it with Melissa Smith, and you can go on and on. Now everybody's with their social media platform being able to utilize it. And I think that's been one of the areas that I love watching our young ladies just use their platform.

In the Wobber being able to fight for a cause, even though you're not here physically, but during the pandemic, you know, being able to thinking about George Floyd, and his murder and just what transpired from that. Black Lives Matter and being able to step up, being able to use your platform, they use their voice even in the Wubble. When we were far away, excluded, in our secluded in our own little space,

they use their voice. And now you've seen every single one of our players has their own platform. You know, let's give a shout out, Asia Wilson, Dear Black Girls, her new book that came out, you know, her platform, going on a bookstore, I think all of the interests that are coming even off the court are internally healthy on the court,

too, because now you're reaching different audiences that are all pulling into the same pool of, how do we support these women on the floor, but even realizing now, oh, my gosh, these are amazing women, even more amazing, off the court and all the ventures that they're involved in. You mentioned the CBA and that they're about to start negotiating that. what are some issues because we like to bring these to our platform and then hopefully bringing awareness to these things like the pay disparity

make some changes or put some pressure on some folks what are some of the issues like I know travel is an issue players having to take commercial flights what are some other issues that will be on the table when it comes to negotiating the year well that

is probably the number one thing right travel right now I think that's the number one thing. Of course, the financial aspect and salaries and just the compensation overall, but my mind just went to.

Travel would be one, compensation two, but then even like we have protected contracts, so even looking at that, you know, you've seen some of the players that have been protected and they tried to figure out there's a different pay scale

for those players that are being protected. And those players that are being cord where you can't move to different players and then the franchise players. So they looked at the pay scale. So I can imagine that might be on the table. I'm a little, I'm removed from those conversations. So to be able to kind of look, but I would say for me personally looking from the outside

in, travel, you're number one, but then also, you know, commissioner talked about more team. Right now the WMBA carries up to 12 players, but not every team. have 12 players. A lot of teams only have 11 based on the salary, the salary cap. So I can imagine that either they fight for more spots or, you know, just looking at the expansion team, how are you going to handle the expansion? How do you handle it differently maybe than they have in the past? Yes, that's a good question, Rachel. Yeah, that's a great question. because that is something that, you know, you'll start to see it probably in the next couple of months

as, you know, the CBA comes out and the players association continues to get together, you'll start to hear more about the issue that are coming up. Yeah, probably, I mean, there's probably a big TV deal coming pretty soon, like a really big, the NBA guy's first big TV deal, like $600 million in the early 90s, and that really changed the pay. So that'll be probably something that comes to. And then, you know, then the big thing will be, the revenue split, like what the revenue sharing is. Like once that comes in, then you'll start to see.

Like, I know that the league has arrived when there's finally a WNBA strike. I'm not wishing to. Don't. We almost hit that. Yeah, like, we almost hit that. We don't want to go there. But you're right about the revenue share. There is an element in the CBA that has that.

We just have never hit it. So now with the renegotiations, of the television contracts, which, you know, that'll be huge and that'll be one area. But you know how it is? Like when one thing happens, you start seeing other companies come on board. And I think that'll be, once that comes through, I'm going to put that into existence. Once that happens, then you'll see other companies start coming out board. I have a little bit of a thorny question for you, Tamika.

As Caitlin Clark has risen to become. a legitimate sports phenomenon. She's had a foil in that, and that's LSU's very own Bayou Barbie, Angel Reese. Okay, we're talking national championship is what we're talking about, right? We did it for Poki Chap.

And so, as she's, as these two players have been exalted or as they've overcome or broken through, you've seen them be at polar opposites. Do you see a difference in the way the media has covered Angel Reese and Caitlin Clark?

A lot of people say that some of Angel Reese's competitiveness, some of her rough around the edgesness, some of her passion is covered one way and some of Caitlin Clark's more rough around the edges. brash play, confident, bordering on, arrogant play. It's covered in a different way, and people wonder why. You've watched a lot. Have you seen the difference in the coverage? Oh, yeah.

I mean, you see it. And, I mean, you're bringing those two up, but you can kind of see it in years before. It is interesting, you know, but you kind of go back and, like, I don't know. The media sometimes, you know, they pit good versus bad, you know,

and they get to pick the storyline that they want to pitch. Both of them are edgy. Both of them are fun to watch. Both of them are different, you know, from the color of their skin, of course, which, you know, like, you've got to bring that out, but you don't always want to make this about a race thing. You know, and I don't want to say thing because I know it's a reality, but I don't know.

I don't know how to answer that question. It's definitely different. And, you know, what I'm, what I'm thankful for, though, is that both of them have been allowed to excel on their levels to be able to receive the NILs, to be able to receive the platforms and the opportunity, you know, because either way it goes, you've got, no matter what's your race, no matter what color is the color of your skin, when you go to these autograph lines, for either one of them, it's all types of people that are. in the line waiting for autographs, you know. Saw the other day the video of the little young boy that met Flauget, you know, I'm just like, he's crying in line. Like, that is real stuff because for these young kids, these are stars in the making. These are the stars they're looking up to.

And I do think, like, both of them are at this next level. You'll start to see a little bit of change, you know, different level, different people. Maturity and college is like, you're just out there walling out, And then you get to the next level and you know, you're a professional. And especially if you get an opportunity to represent your country, that becomes another layer of professionalism that you just continue to mature. We talk about the NIL opportunities that these new athletes have, which is fantastic. You did so much on the court.

You did so much off the court. You continue to do so much off the court. Business owner, nonprofit. What advice do you have for these upcoming athletes? me, you already, and I mean, in women's sports, because you already talked about the activism of the WNBA players who really got it started before the NBA did. What advice do you have for them just using their platform and using like the NIL opportunities they have, which, you know, provides them a financial benefit that they're able to use that, you know, on and off the court? I mean, that's the way, first, it'd be true to yourself. because there's a lot of people that are pool,

a lot of companies that will come and will throw money at you, but if it doesn't fit your character and doesn't fit your brand or who you represent, don't take it just because of the money. So, like, that would be my first thing, you know, like, be true to yourself. And then, too, like I tell all young people,

every single thing you post is forever out there. No matter if you try to, you post it and try to delete it, there's still somebody has seen it. And so really being conscious of who you are and what you represent and that your voice carries weight. And sometimes, like, I get myself a 24-hour rule. If I get upset about something, I don't text, tweet, I don't do anything for 24-hour just to get myself a time. Like, is it really that serious? Did I get upset in the moment because of something that happened and, you know, things that I can't control?

Or is it something that I really need to speak up about? And after 24 hours, if there's something that I really need to speak up about them, they're going to speak my peace. And so really being conscious of that because now, I mean, these young ladies, the platform that they have and the voice that they are, their voice carries so much weight that they, they almost have to be more careful than I was as a player. Because now social media, I mean, everybody, I walk around and most people have their phone out and just growing all day, every day. So you just got to be conscious of that. Tamika, we know you got to go. We really appreciate you joining us on higher learning, though. It's an honor to have you here, even though you was busting LSU ass for all of that time.

It was very frustrating. It was very frustrating with you. I'm not sorry. I just want to let you know you and Coach Summit and Chameecoe Hall's call. It was just very frustrating watching it every single year. We was going to lose by 30, but we love you anyway. I just want to make sure that you guys know that Tamika has also founded to catch the stars, Foundation, which empowers you through fitness, literacy, and mentoring programs.

So if you have an opportunity to support that from one of the most decorated athletes in American history, you guys, the world history, you guys should do that as well. Tamika, thank you for joining us on higher learning. We really appreciate you. Thank you. Thanks, bang. Thanks, Rachel. Appreciate you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thanks so much. All right, Rach, that's enough. That's enough. That is enough. That is enough. That's definitely enough podcast.

great. Fantastic. Love to be. On the podcast. Yeah. Honored. Honored. One of the greatest of all time.

A goat. A goat. God damn it. All right. Take key caps off. It does not stop learning. I am Van Lately Jr. I am Rachel and Lindsay.

Bye, guys.