Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - L.A. Hip-Hop Culture With Nana, and Sydney Sweeney Speaks

Episode Date: December 9, 2025

Van and Rachel welcome rapper Nana to talk hip-hop culture in Los Angeles before they react to Sydney Sweeney’s comments on her infamous jean ad campaign. Then a boxing-style scoring of the best back-and-forths between Stephen A. Smith and Max Kellerman. (0:00) Intro (11:41) Jason Derulo on working with women (23:15) Nana joins the show (53:04) Sydney Sweeney on the “great jeans” ad (1:01:33) Stephen A. Smith vs. Max Kellerman Hosts: Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay Producers: Donnie Beacham Jr. and Jade Whaley Video Supervision: Chris Thomas Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Higher learning is on his eye, Man Lathan Jr. And it's me, Rachel and Lindsay. I have a question before we start. This was a question that was asked, and I wanted to know what you thought.

Who's more famous? I say I have two questions. I'm going to start with the first one. Who's more famous? Michael Jackson or Mickey Mouse. Ooh. This was the topic of discussion at a party that I was at on Saturday.

I missed that conversation. Yeah, it was late until the night. Okay. Well, this is really hard. Who's more famous? Michael came first. I mean, sorry, Mickey came first. So, technically, Mickey's been famous longer.

Like, because the fame is equal, right? Like, they're so equally known, obviously for different reasons in their own right. But I'm going to say Mickey because. Mickey's been around longer, because of Disney itself, because of its international presence. And that's hard for me because we know how I feel about Michael. And I'm not saying Michael doesn't have all these things. But I think a Mickey Mouse figure with the Disney ties will never lose its sting. It'll never fade.

So I think it's Mickey. But they were people that were making, there were people there that night making, and passionate, direct arguments that it's Michael. We're having a conversation. I would love for it to be Michael, and I understand the passion. Donnie, who's more famous?

Michael Jackson or Mickey Mouse? It's definitely Mickey, but I get somebody making the Michael argument, but it's Mickey. Isn't it interesting that Michael Jackson is close to Mickey Mouse in terms of fame? Is there anybody else?

Is there another human being besides the Christ child? I was going to say. that will be right there with Mickey Mouse. Is there anybody else? No. It's tough. No.

Michael Jackson and Mickey Mouse. I want the audience to think about this. Who is more famous? Michael Jackson or Mickey Mouse? Answer a question. And because that's the thing, this is why I get mad when people try to make Michael Jackson comparisons. You can't.

There's nobody else. I don't like when people try to compare talent or he's this generation's Michael Jackson. No. The point that you just made right there is why you can never have those arguments. You can compare it. He is Michael.

You can compare it. So you don't have to compare Michael Jackson to somebody. You don't have to compare every aspect of Michael Jackson to someone. Just because Michael Jackson, like for example, Mickey Mouse is more famous than anybody else, right? Is Mickey Mouse as funny as Bugs Bunny? No. So you can say just because, so I'm saying you can still compare Mickey Mouse to other people. You can compare Michael Jackson.

So right now. You can. You can. You can. If I was to say that Luther Vandross sings better than Michael Jackson, it's just a fact. It's a comparison. It's a fact. It's a matter how famous he is.

Avery Wilson sings better than Michael Jackson. It's different. Like when people are comparing them, they're trying to say like he's this, when you say he's this generation's Michael Jackson, come on now. That's different than comparison. Okay, fine. Semantics. You know what I mean when I say this. What's your second question?

This is the second question. Okay. I want to have a quick five question. four question run about whether or not it's still gentlemanly to do these things. Whether it's gentlemanly. Is it gentlemanly too? Because we're talking about the levels

and the limits of chivalry. Okay. This is to you. Rachel Lindsay, woman about town. The woman, you are, put that under Rachel. No, do not. Rachel Lindsay, woman about town.

You know. You know. what's going on. Is it still gentlemanly to do these things? A, help a woman back into a parking spot. You see a woman backing into a parking spot. Like standing behind her and directing her or

getting actually behind the wheel? So not getting behind the wheel. Like if my dad saw anyone, particularly a woman, backing into a parking spot, he'd be like, okay, come on. Come on. You got it. I think that's sweet when anybody does that. So yes,

that's gentlemanly. Yeah. Calling a woman, ma'am. I'm from the South, so I'm always going to be defer to that. That's a thing. Yeah, yeah. Still gentlemanly to call a woman, ma'am. Yeah, and then people can correct you if they want. People say, man, I'm like, don't call me, ma'am.

But I get it because I'm from the South. I understand the respect that comes with that. But it's a gentlemanly thing to do to call a woman, ma'am. Sure. Okay. Compliment a random woman from your car. Wait, wait, wait, wait. How are we doing it? Okay.

Is it a yell? Is it a cat call? Or is it a... Can you roll down your window for a second? I just wanted to tell you that I think... This is what the men in my family I used to see them do. Shout to my Uncle Craig.

Uncle Craig. I'm not trying to get you in... Actually, shout out to my Uncle Craig. I'm not trying to get you in trouble. My Uncle Craig would see a woman. And he would be like, that's a nice car. It's like, you look very nice.

He would be... He would say something and you would see the woman. These are good-looking men that raised me. You would see the woman smile and whatever. Yeah, the way you just presented it, beautiful. My Uncle Craig would be like, it's always important to be nice to girls. It's like, be nice to girls, son.

Who could have a problem with that? Yes, that's gentlemanly. All right. Some people say maybe not. Okay. Last one. Helping a woman with her squat form. We took a leap.

We took a leap. Wait, I'm saying that is. How are you helping me? Are you in, because again, there's a difference. Are you instructing me and standing in front of me and saying, hey, you want to make sure you push out more from the butt, you want to like straighten your back. Like, is that what you're saying?

Or are you behind me showing me? So I would just, this is what we do. We're going to assume, we're going to assume, we're going to assume that this is, all of this stuff is being done in the right way, right? Because there's a way that you could complicate the one on the street. Nice ass, bitch. Just like the way one of the ladies.

I feel like you wanted to get that out. Nah, let me tell you why. Because one of the ladies working at Spotify said the funniest thing. She was like, because I asked this question and she was like, really, the older I get anything that a nice other man says to me, that isn't nice ass, bitch.

I take it. Damn, the bar is low. The bar is low. Helping a woman with a squat for him. Gentleman or not. It's a no. That's a no. So if you see a woman working out

and she's doing the squat in the wrong way, let her fuck her back up because you could be looked at as a gentleman. As a creep? as a creep. I'm asking, because I see guys do this, and I'm like, God damn, he bowed. One dude I saw in the gym,

he was like, he was like, he literally went, and this guy is a G. You guys ever see guys in the gym that are like super Gs? Yeah. There's one guy in the G in the gym that when he squats, he also does like tactical training.

Like he squats, and then between squats, I see him walking around in a squat next to the squat rat going like this. No. popping up and then going like this and snaking and doing things. I also see him between sets of the squat right, like getting off the ball. Like he's like an offensive lineman. I don't like that.

But I saw him help somebody with his, with her squats and he went, hi. Can I just tell you one thing that might make that movement more efficient? And I was like, God damn, this nigga the man. And I watched him and he walked over and he grabbed the squat bar and it was so, light to him that he picked that bitch up like what she look like what you mean was she pretty yeah yeah yeah he was trying to help he was already looking at her he was already looking at her i don't wouldn't say it might be nice it's okay polite but it feels like there's there's an ulterior motive there i don't think that's gentlemanly but all the other stuff yes manners being polite

complimenting each other that's beautiful but these are these are things the reason why i put them is because like you could easily say, hey, is this little gentleman like, Playful Women's dinner or all of this stuff? Everybody's going to say yes to that. But these are all things that at one point it was customary to do for guys that were wanting to be gentlemen.

That now you could make the argument that some people look at this stuff as like patronizing. Man, if we live in a society where it's to compliment a woman, is looked at as problematic, we have real problems. Rachel, I don't know if you know, but we have real problems. Well, I know we have problems, but, like, I'm sorry.

Like, that's ridiculous. I'm going to take it. If any man gives me a compliment, I take it, I receive it, I'm grateful for it. I'm not comfortable accepting compliments, but I will make sure that I acknowledge it because I really appreciate somebody saying something, taking time to acknowledge me. I'm sorry. I think that's a beautiful thing. And that's a personal issue if you can't accept that.

We're going to help Rachel accept compliments better. I'm not good to accept it. I'll give you a compliment right now. Don't do it. Your forehead looks great today. I don't believe you. It does. Why?

It's extra shiny? It's prominent and smooth. I can't stand you. And it's ready for the world. You've walked out into the world today, mind first. And I like that. See what I'm saying? What?

I might have to take everything I said back. See, that was a backhand compliment. It wasn't at all. Like, if you told me that, if you looked at me one day... Who tells anybody they step into the world mind first? Has any... Go ahead, laugh out loud, Bernard. Has anybody ever said, you step into the world mind first.

That's not a diss. That's not a dis. Like, you, like, it looks. I want to do a poll. It looks like what? I got a lot on my mind. I got a lot to think about. That's not what I said.

I said it looks like you're leading from the front. See what I'm saying? Now, luckily, I've heard them all. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. I mean, gosh, those questions make me sad. Other than the squads, that makes me sad. That happened because earlier today, I saw a tweet from my man, Miwi, Free, on

Twitter and it was he said what kind of tattoos do you think a woman has if you see her backing into a parking spot? I was like what an interesting question. But then my mind thought if you see a lady backing into a parking spot and is it still okay to be like hey, straighten up cut the wheel? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're good. You're good. A little tight right there cut the wheel because I would see men do that all the time or is that look like you're telling her how to drive now?

I mean, it is your, yes, you're telling, but the intention is to help. Right. So that's how I look at it. I'm just not a big person who's like, don't tell me what to do. That's just also not my mentality. Right. But I do know people like that.

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Restrictions apply. See terms at fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. Should we put Jason DeRuel in the show at the last minute or now? We don't have to. You just, just walked him in. I know. I just think that's interesting. Why is this interesting to you?

Because to me, this is a particular thing related to him. So I understand his reaction to it. Donnie, play the Jason Derulo clip real quick. He was on with Grant Bessinger. There was a lawsuit not too long ago by an artist that was like hired to your label that was dismissed. Twice. What did you learn going through that? Never work with women.

Oh, come on. There's truth in every joke. But it's a sad truth. Like I will never be alone in a room with a woman that I work with, like ever, ever again. Um, what? It's too risky. That case was dismissed twice in two different, um, states. And there's hardly no mention of it online.

Okay. So Jason Derulo was, um, accused of harassment by, uh, there was a group that, I don't know if you remember them, but there was a group called Sorati. Oh, it was one of them? It was one of those ladies, yeah. It was a group called Sorati. So there were three of them, there were sisters. I actually had them on my old podcast.

Oh, all three? No, it was two of them. Because I know the third one kind of went off, disappeared. They were. Well, I think two of the ladies ended up going, there were three sisters. Right. The first one left.

Right. And then there was another one that left and she like moved to another country. There was like drama behind it. Like they were like trying to find her, like concerned about her. I remember this. But. one of them is Emanza Dilan.

Okay. The sister's name. I'll make sure I say her name. Okay. And she has sued Jason DeRulo for sexual harassment a couple of times. Okay. And so in response to this,

Jason DeRulo says that he would never work with, he says don't work with women. And then he said he would never be in a room with a woman. You heard what he said. Your thoughts on that. I think that he's saying something

that's particular to him. So this is why like, I didn't really think as much, or take it, I guess, take it to heart or think too long on what it was that he was saying because he says that he was sued not once but twice by this individual. Like the lawsuit was dropped. Dismissed twice. And I think that it's been refiled. I read somewhere. I read somewhere.

It's been refiled after this interview. And this isn't me taking, I haven't read the lawsuit. I'm not familiar with all the accusations, but he is maintaining his innocence. I'm not choosing a side either way. But if he believes that he's innocent, and that's what he's standing by, and he's saying it's been dismissed twice, and I guess he's saying that he put himself in a situation where he was alone with her, which gave the freedom, I guess, for her to accuse him of certain things. He is now saying that he no longer wants to put himself in those situations. I would think that if I was accused of something that I am saying I did not do, I would want to protect myself from being in that situation again. You know, I don't, if Jason Derulo was saying, hey, none of you guys should work with women and this is why, because this happened to me, I would have a completely different opinion.

But he's making it particular to his situation that this happened to me. I lost a lot of money in legal fees. The allegations are not true. And I do not want to go through this again. I think that that makes sense. Okay. So it says here, days after this interview was recorded, which was recorded, it was recorded. some time ago, the sexual harassment suit was refiled.

This is from a couple of months ago. This is coming out now because the interview was recorded a couple of months ago. But the case has been refiled after the interview took place. So not recently now, but recently as it relates to the interview was refiled in New York. I don't like this. Okay. And it's not that I don't like it because I don't understand. it is not

that's not the reason why I do get it I go look why put yourself in a position if you're Jason Drewlo you're thinking the way to insulate myself from this is to not put myself in a position where this can happen to me again and that's a good rule of thumb for a lot

of things in life right except in interpersonal relationships both public private work and non-work. That's the only time. Like if you, if there's a certain party that you go to, like what happened with the family and the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the day was like, no more going to the

games because they shoot them, right? You just wanted to put that in there because people, you didn't feel people paid attention to it enough in the last episode. So what I'm saying is this. If you go, if there's a certain place that you hang out and you go there to hang out and you're like, this is not the place I should be hanging out. I get it. If there's a certain, uh, if you go, uh, if there's a certain, uh, I don't know, a type of way that you move. I don't want to put myself in this position anymore, certain activity or whatever.

People are different. To me, it's always important to self-analyze when it comes to interpersonal relationships. Right? Like Jason DeRulow saying, I'll never work with a woman again. Obviously, it's, honestly, shall I say,

it's pretty destructive. It's pretty destructive. because, oh, I'll never be, I'll never work with women or then saying I'll never be alone with the woman. Okay, so then there's a woman that wants to record or something like that with Jason Derulo. Now Jason Derulo has to get somebody else to be in a room. And if he can't get somebody else to be in a room,

if that's not available, then Jason Durulo doesn't do it. Now Jason Durulow has to sit. Now, what he has to do now is whenever he works with a woman, there has to be extra steps that are taken to make sure that he's protected whether or not he knows it or not, that makes it harder for the women to work with guys like Jason Derulo.

It makes it harder for women or anybody else in any industry that would want to work with him. The question that I would be looking at, and maybe this is not a fair question to him, is what could I do? Like, how could I behave? How could I comport myself in a way that ensures that no one can misconstrue what it is and I'm doing.

And to me, whenever you're in a situation like that, that is the way that you should look at that. Now, if we're having a conversation where we say it is impossible to comport yourself in a way that women in this industry are so predatory that they are always looking for a reason to, levy a complaint against you or an accusation, that's pretty cynical. And I would say that I kind of don't agree with that.

Not kind of don't agree with it. I definitely don't agree with it. It is cynical, but I think this is an extreme situation. Based on what he is saying, right? I'm not saying I believe him, I believe her, whatever. But if I had been sued this way

and I am saying I am innocent, I am doing everything that I can to protect myself. If that means bringing in a bunch of men, if that means setting up cameras, if that means recording every situation, I need to do what I need to do to protect myself. The setting up of the cameras is interesting because I'm not against that.

The setting up of the cameras, hey, these cameras are running full-time. Everybody's going to see our studio sessions. Now, now people are not going to like to do that because you've ever been to the studio, you know, sometimes it get a little, you know what I'm saying? You're in the studio.

Your homies come over here in the studio. What you know about that? What you know about that? We're in that, ooh, that tooth in common. Like we're doing the whole things We're in the studio Baby we in the studio Not baby we in the studio

We're in the studio You know what I'm saying We in the stew You know what goes on in the stew It's staying in a stew You know we get turned up Somebody in who could actually Come in and in there

They can actually talk about that I know what's going on in the stew But I'm saying The cameras and all that stuff That's fine Taking different I mean I can get crazy too But taking different

Precautionary I guess Taking different precautions It's fine That's fine. Taking precautionary action is fine. But blankedly putting your situation on any women that might want to work with you. Yeah.

And saying that you're either not going to work with women or you're going to only work with women in certain conditions makes it harder for women to work with guys like Jason Derulo. And that type of attitude is contagious. I understand what he's saying and why he feels that way. but I don't think that's the right way to go about it. Well, and maybe I'm feeling a certain way because it's Jason DeRullo and not like Jay-Z saying it. Maybe I would, because I say it because Jay-Z has more impact and influence, I believe than Jason Derulo.

So maybe I would feel more like what you're saying. I just don't think it's that, especially particular to his situation, I don't think it's going to be that influential of an idea. And I even think about like the Me Too movement. If after the Me Too movement, And as it moved through different industries and it eventually hit music,

if people were saying, I'm not working with women anymore because I don't want to be accused, that's something that is more influential and impactful and problematic. That's what's happening. It's just Jason Derulo. Just Jason DeRulo.

I don't think it's that impactful. Sorry if that sounds like Dig. It doesn't sound like a dig. It sounds like a, but... It's like you didn't hear like moguls who were getting in trouble saying or even who had not. They definitely said that number one.

But they're not not working with women. Some of them are. Who said that they are not working with women anymore? So what you definitely heard as a byproduct of the Me Too movement was that, well, you know, it's just not safe to hire women anymore. It's just not safe to hire women. But did they do that? Well, a lot of those guys got kicked out to the fucking curb. I can understand.

But what I'm saying is a lot of people said that. And I think that that is the wrong lesson to take away from. No, I agree. And I agree with you in that. And I don't think that that. I think people got scared. and I understand the fear. I don't have a problem with people taking precautions.

So I remember when stuff was coming out, when I was with my ex, I was like, you're in an office alone with sometimes just women. You might need to have precautions in there because you don't know if someone's going to say they accuse you of touching your chiropractor, touching them the wrong way or doing something. You just need to do that for them and for you.

I think you can go both ways. Like if there were cameras in there, you can't accuse me necessarily. of doing something if you're recording a session, audio, video, both. I don't really think the precautions are that big of a deal, but I understand your sentiment. If what Jason DeRulo says catches on, super problematic. I just don't think it's that influential.

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Including important safety information We have an L.A. rapper that I've known for a while How you feel about being called an L.A. rapper? I don't take no offense to it. What does L.A. rapper mean when you hear... Nau's in the house, by way. Give it up a Nau, everybody. Shout out to Nick May, my man.

Me and Nana I met some years ago. A lot of times Nick, so this is what I say about Nick May, my guy. So everybody that Nick knows is the most talented person that's doing whatever they're doing. So when Nick introduces you to somebody, he's like, he's a writer. Craziest writer you ever heard before? I'd be like, hi, bro. Hey, bro, you ever seen this nigga dance? Nick is the craziest dancer.

So when Nick told me that you were such a great rapper, at first I didn't want to believe it. I was hating on you, bro. You was hating on you? Why was you hating on you? Because Nick said it. You know how me and Nick are. So me and Nick love to argue. And then I listen to it.

I'm like, damn, the nigga is nice, man. What the fuck is going on? You do have to take everything that Nick say with a grain of salt. But. Why? I love Nicholas. Nick is a contrary. I know he is.

No, I know he is. But he likes to get the people. Nick is the man. I love Nick, though. But L.A. rapper, what does that mean? What does that mean, L.A. rapper? I mean, I don't take no offense to it. I honestly, like, I love this.

This is where I'm from, like, Los Angeles. Like, you. You know, L.A. is one of those places that it's like a franchise. It's like Los Angeles Lakers. It's a lot that comes with, with, you know, being identity. Identity, absolutely. So I wear very proudly, you know, South Central Los Angeles. Yes, sir.

South of the 10th Freeway. South of the 10th Freeway. What's the difference? I said something. I remember I was on Vlad one time and Vlad, yeah, been on Vlad a bunch of times, man. I was on Vlad one time. I was on Vlad one time, and Vlad said that he said that what he learned about L.A.

When he moved to L.A. was that there was a bunch of people in L.A. that would say that they would do stuff, being Hollywood. They would say that they would do stuff. And then they would never do it. Like, you don't see these people again. They don't follow through with what that they would say.

They would say that they would do. I don't remember I told Vlad, I was like, well, that's because the people that you, you are meeting what people consider to be Hollywood, they are from a specific place in Los Angeles. And I think a lot of people confuse the Hollywood portions of LA that they think are LA, which is who is Hollywood, Hollywood, Santa Monica, all of that stuff, with how actual people live in the community, the anchored communities of Los Angeles. So when people say that people are Hollywood, that the LA is this, do you feel like they have any idea of the culture south of

the 10, like, where you're from? No, like, I really loved when Kendrick was like, don't say you hate L.A. and never travel past the 10, you know, because a lot of people would be like, oh, L.A. is whack. L.A. is whack. Lank, I got whack food. I don't know. The culture is whack. But, like, where, where, where, that's nowhere near where the true essence of where you would find, like, the heart and soul of L.A. Lamar Park. You know, that's, like, one of the most prestigious, like, you know, black areas in the world. You know, everybody goes to Lamar Park, you know.

And, yeah, to me, I'm always like, who are you, you know, connecting with when you get out here. And it's always, no offense, but it's always like people that are not from Los Angeles. Right. Transplants. And it's like, yo, connect with the real folks. Englewood. Englewood is so beautiful.

It's a beautiful place. Like, Los Angeles is really beautiful, especially when you have somebody that's from the land to, like, actually show you where everything is at, show you where to get. to bond food, everybody for whatever reason they think our food is terrible. Granted, we don't have as much diversity as a New York, you know, might have. But, you know, we got some, we got some spots for sure. That's what I need. I need somebody from L.A. to show me around.

I've only been here five years, though. Oh. So I'm not. That's long enough. That's long enough. Is it fair? Wait a minute. Is it fair that I moved during COVID?

It is. That is the big part of it. So I moved to here in 2020. Okay. So it's like I've been here for two years. Yeah, even because for three years, shit wasn't right. Yeah, actually not quite bad. Yeah, people always love to tell me I don't know L.A.

Right. For people who are listening, if this is the first interview that they've heard about you, they're meeting you, what would you want them to know about you? That I am someone that's very big on, as cliché as it may sounds, self-belief, you know, self-belief, especially in this age of the internet where you may see. see things, see other people's lives and start to compare it to yours and, you know, knock you off your square. But believing in yourself and me believing in myself, I feel like is what got me to the point where I am right now. And, you know, society is so many variables and factors,

especially in the space and the space that work kind of only, you know, that can strip you of your confidence, strip you of who you may know you are and the world will make you believe that you're not that person. But yeah, self-belief. I'm very big on that. And that's what I feel like I represent most in my music and who I am and the people that I feel like I represent. That seems like that would be hard to have for a rapper.

Yeah. Because it seems to me that like rap, I'm just going to be real with you. most of the rappers that I know that I really enjoy listening to their music, they're not popular. Most of the people that I think are making great, introspective, sticky rap music. Like, they're not the guys that are really blowing up.

I'm not saying that the other music is bad. Right. I'm saying that the other music is catchy and digestible. But a lot of the good music is being made by people who don't seem like they have a really strong push. It seems like people want to figure out how the people with talent become the people with audience. Rather than bringing the people with audience to the people with talent, which is a really interesting space for hip hop to be in. So how do you stay yourself when they want you to rap like somebody else?

Right. I look at like, I feel like the tide has turned like so much. Like crazy in 2025, especially to where it's like it is unfortunate. that there is no, you know, I think there were like, it's the first time in 30-some years that, you know, a rap song wasn't in the billboard top 100 or 200 or something like that. But when you look at artists like Freddie Gibbs, who might not be, you know, the most successfully, you know,

commercial rapper, but still has this audience and his fan base that will show up, you know, I'm saying, and being a cold to come to a show and, you know, he's getting Grammy nominations, you know. It's just fantastic. It's just great music, even with the clips. I feel like that was great music. It was great music. And as we all seen, you know,

Killer Mike. Kill a mic. Absolutely. Great music. Absolutely. So you really think it's turning because I really think this is interesting because I see, you know, it seems like companies and labels and are pushing TikTok sounds and trying to be go viral in that way.

And that's what makes people popular as opposed to the true talent. You feel like it's being pushed back against now. Absolutely. A thousand, a thousand percent. A thousand percent. Because even at the core of it all, like with all the corporations, like, and, you know, all of what they may want you to do, I feel like everything starts from this, like the culture, you know, and they're always pulling from the culture, like, unk, word onk, you know. And it's just kind of like, yo, these are things that we've like been saying. these are things and, you know,

things that we've been had embedded in, like, what this is, you know? Right. And now they're kind of glumming on to you. I want to ask you about something. I was listening to your freestyle and you said, how the fuck we're supposed to win when all we got is Aidan Ross? Right. Explain that bar.

I feel like it's very, very direct because I feel like if that's the bar for, I feel like important voices, in that sense we're we I feel like we are fucked you know if that's the bar if that's like the what the the youth is looking to for information and you know and information on our culture you know because at the end of the day like these are guests in our culture these are guests who's the these people that don't look like us right you can say white yeah So let me ask you this. When we talk about that.

So would you say that, so you have Aidan Ross, right? He represents a different cultural perspective. He's interviewing a lot of big rappers. He has a lot of big audience. What the internet has done has made, audience has taken control over prestige. So it doesn't matter how important the work that you do is. If you have a big audience, you are important. That's it.

It is over. Right. Yeah. But there are people, maybe like a bootleg kev. You know what I mean? There are people that are in the same. space that are white, that seem to have more of a direct allegiance to maintaining some type of cultural consistency.

Definitely. So you feel like there is a difference between those guys or do they understand that they're guests? What's the difference between a bootleg kev and an Aden Ross? I feel like Bullet Kev, like an ally. Bullet Kev is, he feels he's more of an ally. Yeah. You know, he understands what this is.

He understands a space. and he understands his position in the space. And I feel like that's very important. Compare that to rap. Who's a guest in rap and who understands the culture? Or is there anyone? Yeah. I feel like Mac Miller was a guest that understood, you know.

And he was someone that we all accepted in the space as well. Yeah. A legitimately sincere musician. Absolutely. A thousand percent. a thousand percent and he made some of the most incredible music ever so who's a guest who's a guest in this culture um in rap yeah that looks like this or don't look or that don't look like yes don't look like us um who is a guest who is a guest who is a guest for like m&M m&M is a guest

i think he knows it yeah m&M knows it amen em is a guest uh i think he knows it i think emm has gone out over the course of his career. He's got a lot of stuff because of who he is. But I think Eminem knows that is very important for him to not position himself as someone who is a hip hop dominator. Absolutely. Because he is white. I think he knows that. Yeah, definitely. And he's another one that I feel like, like, you know, recognizes and understands like the space that he's in and, um, who has impacted the culture positively. Me and you have a running joke about me talking about like, because I have friends from L.A.,

and I talk about like the L.A. street shit is so many rules. One time Glass has sent me, I told you guys about this map before, and the map was about every hood that was in L.A. I was fascinated. Fascinated. Baton Rouge, five different hoods. They big.

You go to different places, you know. LA, street to street, different situation, and there's lore with all of it. There's lore of it. There was a party. People got to shooting. Then they formed their own. I'm like, Jesus Christ, you listen to glasses, talk about this stuff. It's like he starts to grow an old white beard.

Let me tell you about the history of it. Like a gang wizard or something like that. That is a very specific thing here in Los Angeles. Since Chicago and Jacksonville, a couple of other places, can L.A. rappers really get it popping without some sort of. of street affiliation. Without some hood behind you, without some set behind you,

is it difficult to be viable in L.A. as a rapper if you don't come from a set, if you're not adjacent to a set, if you're not a part of that culture? Yeah, I feel like there's, there's, there are, um, rappers that I've, I felt like I've had,

like, decent success that, um, that have had great success. That weren't like pushing that sort of line. You know what I'm saying? A lot of people don't like to give him his credit as such, but will I am. Oh. You know? Okay.

He's a perfect example. Yeah. You know? Because he's making boom boom power doesn't mean that, you know what I'm saying? You know, he's not from Los Angeles or even Tyler the creator. Same thing. Yeah. You know?

So I feel like Los Angeles has a lot of versatility in that way. And I feel like Tyler is somebody that for that reason, I feel like a lot of people didn't see him as an LA rapper because he wasn't pushing that sort of line. But I love how, you know, he was one of the, you know, performers at the pop-out because I feel like that was a moment and everybody, like, being like, yo, Tyler is one of us. Like, he grew up in Hawthorne, you know. He's definitely south of the 10 certified, for sure. And the crowd definitely reflected that as pop-out.

Were you there? I was. I was taken. I was like, whoa. You would have thought Kendrick came out. No, 100%. Yeah, yeah. It was like that energy.

I'm like, wow. Like he, people love him. Getting to know you, what originally pulled you into music and when did you realize rap was going to be the path for you? And did I read that your father was a pastor? He is. He is. How did that influence? I'm a P.

P.K. Yeah. That's why you rebelled with the devil's music. They're all, preachers kids are always fun. That's the devil's music. I really love sinners. I really, I really loved that. Are you related to Sammy?

Man, that one definitely, it spoke to me so deeply, especially because of, like, just like the message and, like, the form of ministry, Sammy, um, what, you know, decided to go in and how his father was, like, warning him and things of that nature, but I ain't going to lie. My dad, he loves my music. Mm. He loves my music. My dad, he front row every show. Aw. He loved, yeah.

He loves my music. So there was never in a way, because you're Ghana. Absolutely. Right. So being from Ghana and the sort of religiousness that comes, particularly in a lot of, there's a religious and a cultural sort of deal that you're doing with your dad. And that, he never let that get in the way of his understanding of your hip hop. No, because he's like, this is his former ministry, you know.

And also what I. to speak about my music. You know, not everybody's gonna be a preacher, you know, and he understands that. And, you know, when my parents came to this country, they came here to create opportunity. And one thing that they realize now, more than ever, in 2025, it's so much opportunity out here

compared to how they grew up back home. So, yeah, my mom and my dad, they front row every show. They're telling everybody, my mom got a beauty supply. And everybody that comes through there, She's telling everybody, oh, my son is rapist on Instagram, follow him on Instagram. So I be getting random messages sometimes. Like, yo, I just went to your mom's store and she put me on your music. Yo, you dope.

You know what I'm like, oh, that's what's up. You know, so, yeah, they're definitely, um, my biggest support is. But for the longest, I'm not going to lie, I hid it from them because I was scared that they wouldn't be receptive or accepting of what it was that I was super passionate about. So, yeah, it's, um, and to answer your question, once I, I, I realized I was not going to the NBA. I was like, I need to find. I hooped with you. That was never going to happen.

Welcome to. Yeah. I hope with him. I'm fucking with Nana, but I did. He did. Did you all go to know? We did. I'm not going to lie.

Van nicer than I thought. Can finish what you were saying. I'll finish what you were saying. I'm sorry. Come on. I'm talking about you. I'm sorry that I'm sorry that I'm not. I'm sorry, Rachel.

Well, I mean, to be. fair, you did say he was never going, so I don't know what the talent really compares to. Ben was moving like Kareem in 2021, but, you know, he was moving in slow motion. But you know what I'm saying?

I was big or even at the time. Yeah. Now with the Achilles is fucked up. You know, you don't know, oh, they got the part that just can't miss, but he moving in slow motion. You can hear every crack, snap, crack, and pop and every bone.

And he just, I'm like, yo, he got it. I'm like, man, it's nice. If I can get that bitch, if that bitch go up is going in and we was playing outside. Where, what was that part? It was Ballone Hills Park. Barwell's part. Yeah. Because Nick, another thing about Nick is Nick keep you connected to your people.

Yeah. As Nick, Nick is like, hey, I want to, Nick, I want to go get something to eat. Nick is not taking you anywhere in Hollywood. No, never. Nick is taking you to a place where when you walk in, they go, homie cool? Yeah, he could. We walk in there. That's what Nick is.

That's Nick's thing. Nick is connected to the community. Real talk. And I got to say this about Nick, too. Like, I'm from Los Angeles. I was born and raised, you know, in South Central. And Nick has put me on to so many different, like, that I thought I knew. And he's like one of the most universal people.

Like, he's familiar with Southern culture. He's familiar with Los Angeles culture. When it comes to music and entertainment, he's like a historian. I'm like, yo, how old are you really, bro? You tell you to pull up, last thing I said about, that's my man. He tell you to pull up, he says it's going to be people here. You never know if it's going to be his homie that just got out or JJ Abrams. You just don't know.

You never know who is going to be. But, you know, he got some. Absolutely. And I got to say this too. One last thing about Nick that I had the, like, it to this day, it like really makes me happy because I never had the chance to actually like formally meet him. Nick played my music. for Nipsey a month before he passed.

Wow. Yeah. And I thought that, like, that was, like, one of the most fulfilling things for me, especially where it is that I come from and what I represent and what I speak about. And, um, uh, my identity as well, because Nip was East African from South Central. I'm West African from South Central. So that made me so happy. And, you know, as you know, him passing impacted everybody.

So I was just kind of like, and he was like, oh, I played your music. I was like, man, stop lying. Sometimes you never know, in it. But he showed me the receipts. You show me the text. I was like, whoa, that's crazy. What underrated, I think about rappers in L.A. that are underrated. I was on the way here.

RJ, 30 in the middle played. I seen. I seen that. Favorite song. Bro, that song is so hard. I don't understand. That's a record that every time I play that record, people go, who is that? L.A. got, L.A. is, to me, the capital of the underrated rapper.

Because even the rappers that are, are rated, to me, are still underrated. Buddy, rated, rated, everybody, he's a, that's a rap star, still underrated. Reason, rated, that's

a rap star. That's a legitimate rap star. Still underrated. Still underrated. I would say that like, bro, I can make an argument that even like Ave's soul. Absolutely. Still, all of this immense,

crazy, really transcendent talent that for some reason it doesn't it like why I don't know why why like they they they they all of these guys are that and I could even go further right with a lot of other people but yeah all of these guys are that but it seems like sometimes it doesn't escape the LA capture yeah I feel like people feel like our music is so regional for whatever reason that never really I never understood that like why people feel I don't know I'm from Texas I don't I don't I And I like it.

I'm not familiar with everybody you guys just named, but it does feel just for y'all. And I don't know what that feeling is, but it just doesn't feel like it's for everybody. Not saying it's not good, it just feels like you're not in the club. Right, right, right, right. And I don't know why.

Right. But I feel like music was in a better space when everything did feel regional, you know, when, you know, because we can freak it comes on in the club, you're going to dance. Crazy. You know what I'm saying? Best Beasts of all time

Crup like crazy That's a very West Coast song Yeah move bids get out the way It's southern marsh pit Like that's like You know ghetto like Yeah that's like You feel me

That's like You know So I don't know For whatever reason People feel like Our music is just like You know Maybe it's because

I don't know I don't know if it's I don't know what it is But I've heard people Be like yo You know I don't know I can't really get down to that

Because it's super I don't know For what it's whatever reason I just can't get into it. But I'm just kind of like, you know, our music, I feel like the foundation of it and what it was kind of built upon, you know, is music in its purest form like Zapping Roger. Yeah. You know, Bootsie Collins and you got Dr. Dre and them that took that and, you know, evolved

it from what it was. So I don't know. Your EP is coming out pretty soon. Tell me about the new EP. So it's called The Internet Kilt, the Super. Star. Yeah. I feel like the name itself speaks volumes on various different levels.

You know, I feel like everything is too accessible. The things that people have and fans have, they shouldn't have. They shouldn't have access to. Spotify monthly listeners, they shouldn't have access to because they start to feel as if they can be the A&R. and, you know, they made a couple of playlists and all of a sudden. And it's a crazy, crazy thing I said this the other day. I feel like we're in the day and age where, you know,

those are the people that actually get the A&R jobs. Right. Yeah. You know, so full circle, it comes back around. I just feel like people have too much access to everything. You know, there's certain things that we shouldn't see or I feel like it's certain things that we don't value as much because we have too much access.

access to it. You know, when Michael Jackson was alive and kicking and going crazy, you know, you didn't know what he did or what he ate last night or, you know, it kept you, you have to write fan mail and hope that whoever was running his fan mail was sending you something back and, you know, it just kept your mind wondering. And when you saw him, it made it more impactful because you're like, yo, that's Michael Jackson. Nowadays, you got fans and comments talking crazy to their favorite artists like, you bitch ass niggum, when you're going to drop? And it's like back then there was more reverence. There was more respect, you know, because you didn't see your favorite.

They weren't everywhere. They weren't everywhere. Is there anybody that you think still has it like that? Is there anybody who feels mythical or magical that's an artist that still keeps the mystery, the curiosity? Kendrick. Yeah. I would say Kendrick. Dot maybe.

Kendrick and I feel like Kendrick, Beyonce. Jay-Z too. Yeah. I feel like Jay Z is like, you know, he's like one of those people. He walk in a room and it's just like the aura, like his, you know, it just like, yo, that's Jay Z, you know. Yeah, I feel like those are a few. Last question.

You, you want of the little niggas of the rap game. In a rap game, you are a little nitty. What's, what do you mean? Like, if we look at it. that rappers, you like, you're a little nigger, right? I don't get what you're saying. Yeah. Like, explain.

What do you mean by that? Well, I'm like, is, in anything that we doing, it's like guys that really move the culture and move the needle and do all of that stuff. You're like, what are you? Or a, what are you saying? Like, like, you, you are very talented, like, super talented. And, but like, as far as rappers are concerned, you would be considered a little nigger. I don't appreciate what you're saying.

Okay. No, no. You know, yeah, like, what do you mean by that? It's the way. It's the, it's, you saying it that way. Yeah. I mean, he's a little nigga. I mean, we, if we're comparing people to like,

what you're talking about? Man, man, man, man. But you're saying that I'm a little niggas, like. You don't just say your little niggins to it. Yeah, that shit ain't cool. You can't, you can't. Oh, you about to walk on. What is you saying?

I'm saying, what you mean? My nigga, who? No, hold on. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on, hold on real quick. No, no, first of all, you got my phone about it. We don't. Wait, I said what I meant, like, what I'm gonna. Just give him a...

You know, man. Nobody, you know, we're gonna be... Nobody cut, me, that's shit. I don't fuck on. No, man. And nobody, you know, that's y'all motherfuckusk is. No pat. We're real, bro.

You're like, weird. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. We're done. Ha ha ha ha ha.

Ha ha. Got you. What? Almost like. I was like, I have no cute. It's all left. I'm glad. I'm like,

Rachel is sure. Well, I was like, Why did you ask him now? Like, okay, hey, shout out to the homies. I was like, Rachel. I was mortified that you said that. Like, read the tape back, I was like, please explain what you mean by that.

I mean, that was a joke. We was joking on you the whole time. I don't like it. The homies did a good job. Yo. Jay Bernard, were y'all in? Everybody knew. We were all in on it.

All right. This was really, that, that for Freddie Kruger. Next. For Freddie Kruger. Next. Can I just commend you on your acting, though? Like, that was good. That's what it got.

I'm going to put him in something. He didn't even need to be killed. Jay Boy. Jay Boy. That's what he was good. That's what made me believe it. I'm going to put him in something, man. That's what made me believe it.

I'm going to literally put them in something. That was dope. That was good. When I was like, wow, okay, this is really happening. You didn't even try to, you didn't square up with me and try to get no act right. Oh, I'm not going to jump in between. But you saw I step to front. We need to stop.

We need to stop. I've never seen Van not like that. I didn't know how committed he was going to be, but he was, I'm like, oh. I literally was like, this turns. I thought they were friends. literally that popped up in my head. I thought they were cool. Where is Nicholas May?

He was in on the two. Let me tell you why. Nick was in on the two. Let me tell you, let me tell you, I want y'all to go out. If you're listening right now, I want you all to go out and get nine-knows music, serious, man.

This is one of the most solid, consistent, talented brothers that I've ever met. The music is great. Shout out to my man, Disa, too. Dissus be rocking with the shit. The music is great. And I feel like,

next year is going to be a gigantic year for you. I just wanted to introduce you to the higher learning audience. You can see them everywhere. Been doing this thing for a long time. You can see them everywhere. But you, you right there is happening and the music is consistently getting better.

Thank you. I want to use you on your street connections to troll Rachel. She did Freddie Krueger three years in a row. You handled it better than I thought you was. You thought I was going to be like, call security. I thought you thought you were now. Is that what you thought I was good to?

But we got the close up to Rich. I want to see. All right. Thank you. Thank you so much. And I got to say this before y'all day. I really appreciate you guys having me on your platform. And in relation to piggyback off of what you were saying just as far as important voices, I want to thank you both for the voices that you have that you provide on behalf of us.

You know, and what you guys do. It really means a lot. And I love how you guys hold people accountable. You know, I feel like that's very important, you know, in the day. in age and the space that we're in. You guys aren't afraid. You guys are trailblazers and what it is that you guys do. And I really appreciate you guys having me.

Thank you. Thank you. That makes up for it. Y'all go get the music. Stream the stuff that's already out. Go get the stuff that's new. We're going to come back in a second. Let's take a break.

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Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. We're probably going to get more political on next show, but right now we've got to talk about Sidney-Sweeney. A lot of entertainment stuff that's going on. Sidney-Sweeney says that she's against, hey, Donnie, talk about it. Yeah, she talked to people. magazine about the blowback that she got for the American Eagle.

Sidney Sweeney has great jeans ad. This is what she was quoted as saying to people. She said, I was honestly surprised by the reaction. I did it because I love the jeans and love the brand. And I don't support the views. Some people chose to connect to the campaign. Many have assigned motives and labels to me that just aren't true. Anyone who knows me knows that I'm always trying to bring people together.

I'm against hate and divisiveness. In the past, my stance has been to never respond to negative or positive press, but recently I've come to realize that my silence regarding this issue has only widened the divide, not closed it. So I hope this new year brings more focus on what connects us instead of what divides us. Rich? No. No. True. It's just, you know, this is also her way of saying, don't ask me this question again. Let's stop talking about it. This is what I'll say. I'm going to be, I'm not going to read too much into it. I'm going to take Sidney Sweeney at her word. She says this is who she is. She doesn't align with the views that people tried to place on her

in regards to what the ad was insinuating or people took it to be insinuating. They haven't outwrites it. That's what it is. My only thought is, then you should have just said it from the beginning. Because what she says in this interview with People magazine is that she was silent and she said, I've come to realize that my silence regarding the issue only widened the divide, not closed it. That's not true. You weren't silent. You actually gave a statement to GQ. And that's what fed into people feeling like, oh, okay, well, tell us how you really feel. You laughed and giggled.

You said it didn't affect me one way or the other. You were flippant. You were a little dismissive. You were very cavalier about it all. And you acted like you were unaware of how people were offended or the impact or the underlying issue of the man. You played dumb about it. And I think that's what fed into people even more so having a problem with it. We also know that it wasn't as big of a deal as it was made.

New York Times did a whole article on how it was a couple of videos that the right took and ran with it because they knew it would become a political issue. and turned it into something bigger than it really was. The New York Times has all the statistics surrounding that. But my thing is, is, like, I don't really feel that strongly about it. Just like the first time we talked about it, I said the same thing.

Really not that up in arms about it. But don't also talk to us, like, what happened didn't happen. You were very cavalier about the whole thing. And now you have a statement that speaks directly to it. And that's great. And I believe you in what you.

you say and let's move on. I think the whole thing was pretty silly from the beginning. I think the whole thing was pretty silly. The ad, the jeans, I mean, you know, you talk about genes, you're talking about superior genes, whatever. So I've just heard so many times, like I said, the jeans, you're tall, you can do

whatever, whatever, whatever. We can have a deeper conversation. We have deeper conversation. You guys, we can make a living on deeper conversations. So, what we do here, Highland. We have a deeper conversation. I have no problem with it. I was never offended by the ad. Yeah. What is interesting about this, though, if you want to have a deeper conversation, is why she's saying this noun has nothing to do with the way that she's been perceived.

I was trying not to go there. So, like, what, what happened with the American Eagle thing was that them jeans went crazy. I don't know if people know. But your anger over the jeans didn't do shit. Jeans was flying off the fucking sales racks going crazy. Everybody went out and got themselves some good jeans. That's what happened. Like the stock went up.

Stock went up. Everything went nuts. Everything went crazy. For them. For them. It's all great. Not for her. Like all of that stuff.

No, for her it was fine. For her it was fine. It did not in any way affect her or there was no measurable way to know that it affected her until one thing happened. Sidney-Sweeney did a movie this year called Christy. The movie is about a pioneering women's boxer named Christy Martin. The film went to 2100 theaters in its first week and it made $1.3 million domestic. That is historically bad. Historically bad.

Historically bad. She's a new movie coming out called The House Made or something like that. I think that's the name of the movie. And she doesn't want that movie to do historically bad. Because now what Sidney Sweeney has become is something that a movie star cannot be. Divisive. She's become a divisive cultural figure. About a year ago, two years ago, everyone could agree on.

Sidney Sweeney. She was a bubbly, big-breasted, white star on the verge. What is the worst thing for movie stars is when people cannot agree on you. When they can't agree that they want to go see your movies, they can't agree that it's okay to be a fan of you. To be a movie star, most people have to agree on you. That's what being a movie star is. She and her people, for whatever reason, we're put in the position where it's difficult to have a non-committal general opinion on Sidney She is either the same big-breasted white girl from Euphoria that opened a movie with Glenn Or she is the MAGA Wicked Witch of the West. Well, actually, she's not the MAGA Wicked Witch or West.

She's Glinda, the good MAGAL witch. and people decided that we don't want to see Glinda the Good Magic which in her Oscar turn and the movie that was going to make her a serious actress they didn't like that and people were like

hey go get your shit back go and get your take your movie star them back either lean into it which would make her divisa forever or get back to a point where you're letting people know you can go see

the stuff that I make and you don't have to think about me. Now, I know that there have been stars that have taken political stands forever. But it's never the stars that you think that it is. So your stars that take the political stands or your serious character, actor, movie type stars, people. You're not going to hear Brad Pitt, Tom Cruise, all of these people take any stands that would put people in direct opposition to them. Sometimes you get it. Sometimes you get a Brad Pitt. gay marriage situation sometimes but the ones that you're talking about that you want to go out watch their rom-coms unless it is a layup they stay quiet on this stuff and being directly

connected to a political movement like maga is just not going to work for her if that's what she wants to be if she wants to be a gigantic movie star that opens four quadrant movies or even opens big rom-coms or movies like that she can't do it well yeah no yeah i didn't touch on the movie part of it, but it was more than just Christy. That other movie came out to after the ad, the Americana movie. It was released after in theaters in the states.

It did not do well either. Christy was specific though, and I'll tell you why. It was specific because she was in that film and that movie might have not been a big box office movie but it was supposed to be an Oscar movie. It was supposed to be a big Oscar thing. It was her doing the whole transformation.

That's the movie that gets you to the next, that gets you taken seriously. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no, I agree. But I, all to your point, I think that the biggest mistake she made is acting like, she said it doesn't affect me. And then they said, oh, just wait. And now it's affecting her, which is, to your point, why we're getting the response that we're getting. Yeah, I'm not tripping on Sydney, Sweeney.

I know people have all kinds of problems with her and stuff like that. It's just, you know, that's what we've maintained on this podcast. Like, that was, this was never an issue for us. It definitely wasn't our issue. All right. man, there's something that's happening right now and we got to talk about on higher learning but it's like, I will say it's a little bit

it's an interesting situation for us. All right, before we even get to this, I want to say something. Black History Month is coming up. It's in February. It's very important Black History Month. Right? I think it's like, I think it's the 100th anniversary.

Oh, is it? It's something like that. Me and Doree been talking about it. It's a very important Black History Month. Okay. So I think that Black History Month. History Week was 50 years and then Black History Month was 50 years. I think this is the 100th anniversary of it.

Shout out to Carjew Wilson. We talked about a little earlier. So here at the Ringer, I have an idea for Black History Month, how the Ringer can celebrate Black History Month. The Ringer should do this for one whole month. The Ringer, Black History pop up. Okay. Meaning any black on-camera talent at the Ringer should be able to

able to pop up on any ringer podcast unannounced for five minutes. I love it. So if you in the office and you on camera black ringer talent and you just decide that you want to go pop in on the watch for five minutes while like Andy and Chris are talking about a show, you get five minutes to go in there and just get your shit off. No, you know why I love this because you know I don't know most of like it's a running joke. You know, I don't know the podcast. Yeah.

I just want to wander. I just want to wander into random podcast and be like, I'm here. Yeah. Like, who are you? Where am I? Like, Bill is sitting down talking to Chuck Clausterman. You walk in and you go, let's do five minutes on Grace Jones.

Fuck it. Like, on the rewatchables, you walk in, they're talking about over the top. You walk in and you go, hey, you know what? Give me a three minute clear out on uptown Saturday night. That's the whole month. The whole month and you never and you could see them looking up on camera like, oh shit, here come Jomey. Jomey just sit down and he's just going to a shit.

Let's have a meeting after this. Three to five minutes of the Ringer blacks. Let's have a meeting. Three to five minutes. That should be the black history pop up. The reason why I bring that up is because we're going to talk about something that is now kind of Ringer involved because Stephen A. Smith versus Max Kellerman. Max Kellerman now got a podcast with us.

Part of the Ringer family. Part of the Ringer family. family, him and Rich Paul. So when we are talking about this, we have to say at the outset that Max is now Ringer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Stephen A, we have a relationship with Stephen A. I know Stephen A a little bit. You know Stephen A. But when we talk about this, we have to have a conversation with the audience and let them know that Max does work for the Ringer now. Because there's something happened that fascinated me. Max went on Bill's podcast. and he called himself Muhammad Kellerman.

And he intimated, okay, he intimated that the reason why Stephen A. Smith did like doing first take with him is because Max used to roll Stephen A. Smith up. He's stuff in the fucking trash. He basically said it. That's what he said. He said it.

He said it. He said it. He said it. I'm like, this motherfucker here going crazy. What did you think about that statement? I thought he's, He's really happy to be back in front of the camera on the microphone and happy to be a part of the ringer family because he said, I've been waiting for this. It's my time now.

And I love that it was done on our network. Donnie. Donnie. The ringer network. The ringer network. Donnie, what did you think of it? It's spicy. I like spicy.

It's workplace spice. Donnie likes it. He has been waiting to. He's been waiting to get that shit off of his chest. That didn't come to him in the moment. He planned on saying that. So Stephen A responded to Max saying that on his podcast, on straight shooter with Stephen A. Play it.

Donnie, play that. Did I hear correctly? Did we show what he called himself Muhammad Kellerman? As in Muhammad Ali Kaliman. Muhammad Ali Kaliman. Oh my God. I ain't gonna lie to y'all. I had my researchers check

and make sure that wasn't A-I. That that wasn't some shit that somebody just made up. You know, I had to be, I had to double check that. I really, really did. I couldn't believe it, okay? If we were talking about boxing,

you're absolutely right, because I don't know anybody that knows more boxing than Max Kellan. He's extraordinary. No doubt about that. We're talking about first tape, though. And he took it someplace. that all I want to say is,

are you really sure you want to go there? See, there's a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes. Are you sure you want to go there? Because I'm not unless you take me there. So as far as what goes on behind the scenes, I don't really know about that. I can't really say anything about that.

We never really get the story that everybody has their own perspective. And it's interesting what's been happening over the last, I don't know, two or three months, Stephen A and then Jamel and then Michelle Beatle and then Carrie Champion and then all of these people that work with him and their perceptions of him and how they differ, they look at him. There's times where they have a lot of affinity for him, but then there's also other things that they seem to. It seems like Stephen A is the ultimate company man, meaning like every, there's, at every place that you work, there is

somebody that, like, you think that you can talk to and then you talk to them. And, while they might be helpful. What the fuck am I appigning for? You know. Like you, you, you weren't there. So why am I making a conjecture about this?

Like, you know what it's like to work with him. I didn't work as closely with him as Carrie did as she was the official, you know, third member of, um, first take for some years. I didn't work with him, maybe even as intimately as Jamel did.

But I, I, I let you, you know, say your piece or whatever about it, because that's fair. and everything, I have a very positive experience with Stephen A. Smy. A lot of people do. A very positive. Like, I actually don't have one bad thing to say about him, except for, I don't agree with, you know, his political takes,

which I've expressed on this podcast. I have sat at the table between Max Kellerman and Stephen A. Smith on first take. So, you know, I've been in meeting, prep meetings to prepare for shows for first take with the two of them. They're not in there at the same time either. Like, at least my experience was like that. I will say that when I was there, I thought, it was the first time I learned, oh, this is how you can tell people aren't as close during the commercial break. Because they're on, like, we'll be on our phones, but we still talk. Like, they, they just was like no communication until really the camera came on. Now, I was there mid part of their tenure together.

on first take. I didn't, I mean, they were cool. I wouldn't have said that they were close from what I saw, but I also don't know the inner workings of it. If I was going to assume, it does seem like Stephen A. Smith is the show, the star, and he does not want anybody to be on his level when it comes to it. It's his show. I think that is how, once Skip left, that's how he looked at the show. And I think that when you have that kind of mentality that maybe you don't want someone else getting equal or more positive attention than you are. And it seems as time went on, that was happening at least on social media or maybe some of the guests that would come on the show when it came to Max versus Stephen A. Smith.

And if you call him a company man, which I can't confirm or deny, but he obviously has had success rising in the company, it does appear that he plays more of a corporate game than Max was willing to. Well, what I mean by company man is this, and I don't mean to use that as a pejorative. What I mean is this. It's like, everybody that's working at a company right now, everyone, don't matter where you at, there's somebody that you're going to ask for their help and their counsel, and they're going to give you their help or they counsel, right? They're just going to look at you and be like, I'm going to help this person and counsel

this person. Give them the straight, real raw of it, right? That's Stephen A. Smith. Okay. In my experience and other people that I do know, and I'm not going to name them, I'm not going to speak for them. He has spoken in rooms for me when I am not there. Okay. Now, this is what I'll say about that as well.

There's a different version of that too, though. There is somebody who the reason why they do that is intel gathering. Maybe. I'm not saying that this is him, but I'm saying just so everybody out there knows, there's somebody that will help you

and will help you get ahead and speak for you and all of that stuff. But the reason why they do it is partly for you, but partly to build their tribe where they are and also to know what bothers you, to know what pokes you, to build, they'll take what you say, right? And if it, uh, if it advantages them to weaponize whatever malaise you're in or whatever distrust you have in to company, if it benefits them, they'll use that. If it benefits them knowing a little bit more about you, that's why two things people

have to really, really, really be careful about. One, who you let edit you, anyone who you give the opportunity to tell you what you should or should not say, that person will then think that that's their responsibility. So just super be careful who you let edit you. The people that you go to and say, hey, should I have done that? when you, though, it's just human nature. When you do that with somebody, they're going to think now it's their responsibility to do that. Most people, they'll come back and be like, hey, just as I know you asked me before, you probably shouldn't say this either.

It's just be careful who you let edit you. And the second one is, be careful who you complain to. Be careful who you go to and say, this isn't working out. Can I please have some counsel about this? Because that is a very, very intimate relationship to have, with somebody. And if you know somebody's got your best interest at heart, you have to know to do that with them. Because some people will take that. And if it's two years from now and they're not fucking with you no more, or if it's two months from now and they're not

fucking with you no more. And you're up for the promotion and they can get closer to the boss of the place by saying, yeah, I don't know about them. Like, they've been having a tough time. You didn't ask, I don't know about them. They'd be having a tough time. That, when people do stuff like that, it gets them closer to the uppers because the uppers think, oh, now that's somebody that I can trust to come to me and tell me when things aren't going right. That's somebody I can trust about that. Sure, sure. And if you have to be sideline for them to get closer than them, they'll do that.

So I'm not saying anything about Stephen A. I never worked with them. I do know that there seems to be one faction of people that look at him just like you. And I've heard this so many times about what he does for people. Then there's another group of people that think that he does that. for his own benefit and to his own ends. And I can only speak to my, because I have an actual personal experience,

I can only speak to that. But I will say that it did get to a point where he didn't want him on the show. That's what we're about to do right here. Yeah, like it got to a point where Stephen A. Smith and Max could not work together anymore. The question that we asked ourselves here at Higher Learning, the place that does the work,

that some of you guys don't want to do. We get deep. into the guts of a situation and we get deep into them guts until a situation can't handle us anymore to the situation gently puts that hand on you and says okay just a little stop okay and then you have to be a little bit more gentle

I apologize I'm sorry I just keep going I'm sorry I apologize man that's too much you can't help yourself we've been here for almost two hours it has to seep out yeah I know

Seap out. No, there's a strong strength. No, I'm joking. Like I do kegles. So we decided that we are going to, first take embraces the debate. We decided that we're going to score some of these debates

to see who came out on top, all right? Rachel was very into this idea. Yeah, I like it, I like it. Also miss old first take. I miss it too. Yeah. So we're not going to do, we looked for these and theirs. They're very long winded on the first day, which is, it should be because, you know, like, who am I to get on somebody for that? That's my whole brain.

But we're going to take bites of these back and forths, and we're going to score them like boxing. Okay. We've, we've got, what, three or four of them here, all right? First, there was Max and Stephen A going back and forth on the NBA lifting the marijuana band, Donnie, play it. They're all. They'd have the right. Because there are examples of players who've shown up high, that's a reason to outlaw recreational use on someone's own time. It's absurd on its face.

Many baseball players have shown up. World Series games. No, answer that. You said your own time. What do you mean your own time? Be specific. Be specific. What do you mean your own time?

When you're not playing the game, not the night you're playing. You can't show up high. You can't show up high. But after the game, what you go off and do is your business. Now, many pitchers throughout David Wells came straight from the bar. That happened. Trunk pitched a perfect game. He shouldn't be allowed to.

I'm against that, too. Of course, but that doesn't mean that you say they can't drink alcohol on their own time, particularly a league that is in bed with companies that peddle alcoholic beverages. It is absurd if that's the standard that especially once marijuana is legalized, to set if the bar is alcohol, marijuana passes that threshold. hold. Every credible peer review study ever done will tell you alcohol and your society and for the individual. Ad homin. Cut it off. Cut it off. That's a 10-9 round for Kellerman. I feel like Kellerman. The higher learning crew family, I feel like Kellerman took that one.

There was no other point to make. He killed it when he said they can do it on their own time. I agree, don't come into the game. But on your own time, that's your own time. But it's just a tough stance to take that in some way weed is more destructive than alcohol, particularly with alcohol. Oh. All right. Oh, God. All right. Now here's another flashpoint issue that was going to.

Rachel, you introduced this one. Which one is this? Let's go to the Black Laughs Matter. What the fuck? This is Stephen A. Smith versus Max Kellerman. on the Black Lives Matter protest. I'm just telling you right now, this got to be a victory for Stephen A.

He's got to win this one. Well, you would hope so. This is his backyard, right? Donnie play it. We got a lot to protest about. But when you riot, particularly in your old community, we're already lost. We lost.

We lost. We got to keep going. We got to keep going. It's something that we lamented. Because when the fire stops burning, and the damn. has been done and you've done it in your own community. Where do you go from there?

The Detroit riots, for example, in 1967, they still have never fully recovered from that. It's not what happened, guys. They're having their own community at that particular moment of time. I only bring that up to say this in this regard, and I only bring that up to say this, in this regard, when you're looking at the NBA, you're not talking about the players.

You're talking about the collateral effect that it has on people the sport employs, on people in local economies who feed off of that. The fact is, something like that, canceling the NBA season. It's not just going to affect the players.

It's going to affect thousands upon thousands of people. That is true. I need to say something, billions of economies. And that's going to have a report. What can Max possibly say? Because that's going to affect us. Obviously, that's not about games.

It's better not to riot. I'm not pro-right. He agree. Okay. Let me be very clear about that off the top. I'm not saying that. But rioting in their own communities, black people don't own those communities.

Oh, shit. They don't own those communities. And this culture has been rioting against black people for hundreds of years. This nica sound like John Brown. It's just interesting. But they're not. The property they're destroying is not their own even, in fact. I'm not.

But it is in their community. Which is what Stephen is saying. This is counterproductive. It may be in certain ways. It is in certain ways. Not maybe. It is in certain ways and it's better not to riot. However, it's not in all the ways that's presented in the media.

That's true too. That's true too. Okay. We got to be objective. How do we score that one? So Stephen A. Smith basically made the point that rioting is bad. He also said that Detroit has not recovered from the riots. I would say to Stephen A. Smith and other people that make that,

that Detroit has not covered for the loss of industry with the... differing sort of, you know, the globalization of the auto industry, you know, plants moving out of different places and leaving people in Detroit. Yeah, that's a lot of Midwest cities. That would then exacerbate the racial differences that have always existed there,

but they became more prevalent after there was no industry left and people moved out to Arbor Hills and left the city to die. But he thinks it was because of a riot, so that's fine. How would you score that? How would you score Stephen A. Smith against Max Kellerman? Did Stephen A. Smith ever say the word

protest? I don't remember. I mean, in that clip he didn't. In that clip, he didn't. He popped off with the riot. Yeah. It's a lot of negatives there. A lot of negatives with the riot. The one, I mean, Max won this because he does make the point, I mean, he makes the point that they weren't their stores.

Well, first off, he says, I'm against rioting, which that's always the stance that I take. I say, I'm for the protesting. You know I don't give a fuck. Yes, I know. We've talked about this. Like, fucking go and set some shit on fire. I don't believe in the riot. I will agree with Stephen A. Smith, like, Max is right.

It's not their stores, but it is their community. So, like, you're destroying your community in a sense, if it's a riot. But Max makes the point at the end where he's like, that's what the media is showing you. Most protests are peaceful. That's why I said, did Stephen A. Smith say the word protest. So in this round, maybe it's a tie, but if I had to lean, I'd give it to Max. I also would just like to say that, like, when you talk about people destroying their own community, you'd have to show me people like, you know, setting their homes on fire and all that stuff like this.

Most of this stuff is capital. Most of this stuff is capital. So you don't think that if the places that you shop, the store is a part of the community? Depends on who owns it. I understand that concept. But if this is where you go every day and where you shop and where you, you know, like bring things into your own home, it's not part of your community, even if you don't own it, you don't think that that's destroying your neighborhood? A target is not a part of your community. I guess I'm not thinking of a target

I'm just saying the mom and pop shop could be some the local grocery store I understand the point that you are making and all of that stuff a lot of this stuff I'm not thinking Walmart's and targets like a lot of this stuff

usually aren't the stores that are destroyed I don't know that you could say that that's kind of nothing you know what I mean when people are doing the things that they're doing by the way I'm not in any way saying that people should go out I'm just saying but a lot of times when this stuff is talked about

the context is missing and it looks like a bunch of apes went out and destroyed their grandfather's home and all of that stuff. It's not true. This situation, it's never true. I just don't even like when, that's why I want to cut off when he said riot.

You've already lost the plot. I do not like when people starts throwing the word riot out there when we're talking about protests. You've already messed up the conversation. Well, some of that stuff involves civil disobedience that turns into resistance. Correct. But there's a connotation.

Who won the debate? We're going to go with. 10-9. Max. God damn. Max is up. Two rounds. Okay.

All right, let's go to sports real quick. Donnie is, this is LeBron James versus Kevin Durant. All right, this is a LeBron James versus Kevin Durant argument. Max versus Stephen A. Sports, basketball. Stephen A's Willhouse.

Yes, and Max is taking the LeBron stance and Stephen A is taking the Kevin. The Kevin Durant stance. Let's score this. No, no. I say KD with Kyrie and Kevin Love. Well, I don't, let's put it,

I'll put it another way. Give, LeBron James. Did I specifically ask? I just want to answer. Okay, fine. So I'm getting the next one. Does K.D.

win the title with D-Wade and Chris Bosch? Yeah. Yeah, he probably gets at least one. Does Katie win the title with Anthony Davis? I don't know. I don't know. I'm done. I don't know.

I'm done. If you put LeBron, if you put LeBron, if you Look, look, look. There's no two ways about this. KD and the Warriors looked at LeBron. And they said, we won 73 games. We still couldn't get by this dude.

And KD said, I'm with Westbrook and Abaca and Stephen Adams. I still can't get by this dude. They had to join forces to overcome LeBron. Period. So LeBron can do more with less. That is true. That's why he's the best. I think that's fair to say.

Okay. I think that's fair to say. Okay. Who won that one? I think LeBron can do more. with less. I think that's show. Oh, you go for Max on that one?

I think, I think that that's, I think that that has been shown, particularly with when he went back to Cleveland. When did he, okay, when, when, who was on the team? Kyrie. Kevin Love. The nigga had, what you mean?

Like, didn't he, like he, wherever LeBron is won. Who was on, who was on the bubble team? That was, was Anthony Davis, that was, you know, DeWan Howard, I think Rondo,

a lot. Less. But what you're saying? In that situation, that's in the bubble. And that is him with another top 10, top 10, top 15 player in the NBA. You think Kevin, you think Kevin and Anthony could win a chance, just having them could win a championship. Man, look, I'm going to be real with you. I'm not going, I'm not, I'm the type of person. I'm not going downplay in any way what Kevin Durant's talent is possible on the basketball.

I know you didn't, but all I'm saying is, do I think that a pairing of Kevin Durant, a healthy Kevin Duran and a healthy Anthony Davis could win a championship, yeah. So Stephen A won for you. I got to get this one to Stephen A. I got to give this one to Stephen A. Because he's the basketball. In this situation,

arguing that Kevin Duran is better than LeBron James or whatever, that LeBron James can do more with less. I don't know that LeBron James has ever done more with less. Certainly, if you look at the overall scheme of things, the Cleveland teams, was the team in Cleveland was not the same as the Golden State Wars.

The Golden State Warriors had stuff. They had a lot of stuff. But that Cleveland team never beat the Golden State Warriors when the Warriors had Kevin Durant. Right? They never beat them when they had... Sure, but they were stacked. But they had Kyrie Irvin and Kevin Love. I personally think that that was an upset

because they were up 3-1. But when you look at the whole thing, I don't know that LeBron did more with less. They had to like, LeBron did what Dirt Navitsky did. Dirt did more with less. And that's not saying that Jason Terry and the rest of those guys weren't less. But he didn't have another Hall of Famer. Superstar.

He had Jason Kid. Later Jason Kid. That's more with less. You could argue that Yokic has done like more with less. But even that less, he's still got a gang of fucking dogs. He still got Aaron Gore and he's still got Jamal Murray, all of that. I'm going to get out when it's Stephen Day. All right. Last one.

is not necessarily Stephen A versus Max. It's just when I was searching this, this came up. You have to put this one in there. And this is fucking hilarious. It's the most famous one. Jay likes this. This is fucking hilarious. Play it.

Stephen A versus Terrell-O. And you want to get your lawyer and your lawyer wants to stand up there and say, this waiver is an issue. We're ready to work out, but not until they alter this waiver, etc. That's different. But to not do the work out to change location. and then to go and give a speech to the media without taking any questions,

any inquiry as to what's really going on, you are leaving others to surmise what the hell happened. Can I do that real quick? Do you mind to find to jump in, T.O. Yes, before you do that, but what I want to is transparency, Stephen A, and that's like I've done it. I've had incidents throughout the course of my career. And then there have been times where I've gone into interviews where I've done an hour

and a half two hours of an interview. And then they break down and they edit and then you guys get on, get on the show and there's a panel of people. And then they break down whatever clips that they show. They're not showing the entire hour and a half or two hours of that, of that interview that I've done. So what he wanted was transparency for people to see the full workout, to see the full Colin Kaepernick.

Again, you mentioned obviously Max is going to get in here. And like I said, I'm in the streets. Max almost seems blacker than you, Stephen, eh, with, with what he. Tom, with his coming, you know, with his commentary. Tom, I'm just saying, though, wait a minute. Wait a finish. I'm just saying.

I'm going to check you right now. I'm just saying. So wrong. You don't cross the line. You don't cross the line. We're on the time for the whole thing. Max kind of wins because he knew to shut the fuck out. Max said, go ahead.

Max. I got to get out on the Max because Max's not even in this. But at that point, Max said he wanted to say something. Tio who, man, shout out to my nigger, man. Shout out to Tio. But Tio knew that he was about to drop a bomb. He came on to say that.

And he dropped that bomb. I've never seen Stephen A. Smith and any time be more affected by a single statement than he was. And rightfully so. That's like one of the. Rightfully so? That's a damning thing to say because he's right. Again, I have very positive experience personally with Stephen A. Smith. I know the things that he has done publicly and behind closed doors for black people.

And for for Terell Hohens to go on there and just throw that blanket statement out there, I would be very offended by it. Because Stephen A knew in that moment, it wasn't that he just said, you're not black. He said your white co-host is blacker than you. He knew in that moment it was out of it. of his hands. He knew it was viral. Everyone was going to be making fun of him. They were going to start digging stuff up. It was such an unfair statement to make that I understand his exact reaction to it. And Stephen A wins that for me. Okay, Stephen A wins that. Okay, that's fine. I will say this, though, Stephen A did have a tendency on the show for whatever reason. And maybe Max was

pandering. Maybe I'll get the chance to ask him. Man, He used to make Max look like Malcolm X on that bitch, bro. I'm not fucking playing, man. It would be like, it wouldn't just be on issues directly of race. It would be on issues that were in any way social or cultural. And maybe that was because there was a generational divide. They're not that much apart in age, maybe seven years, five, six, seven years or something. But, like, Stephen A would come out and say something like, you know, women need to make sure that they dress right.

And Max would be like, you wear whatever you want. And that's not, they didn't actually say that, but he used to make Stephen A. Yes, he's more conservative. Yeah, he used to make Max look like fucking black leader on this bitch. Remember, there was one time Stephen, they were all talking, and Snoop was up there. And Snoop was saying, amen, brother, to Max Kellerman, as Max Kellerman argue with Stephen A. Smith, I personally think that that more than anything is the reason why Max didn't up there anymore. Was that after?

Because so Max, the reason why Max ain't there anymore, yeah, the debate was one thing. But there was a lot of high leverage social and cultural issues that were happening on first take. And the contrast between a white guy saying this stuff. Yeah. A white dude making Stephen A look kind of like that, that's uncomfortable. If you're up there and it's you and Ryan or you and Jason or you and Perk, I'll tell you somebody else who's Stephen A. did not particularly like the way he looked in arguments and debates with them. Who?

J.J. Reddick. Oh, yeah. That was a thing. Didn't, like, didn't particularly like arguments or debates with that person for whatever reason. The optics kind of look bad. People say that Stephen A. He said, look black.

It might be because Stephen A. doesn't like the way that that looks, that he was like, get the fuck out of here. Yeah. He didn't do that to JJ. But, like, with Max, if you across the thing. thing from a white guy and the white guy is basically giving you, you know, Megga Evers, and you coming back on your other, that's, that's tough, maybe. It's tough.

Yeah. But, like, Tio shouldn't not have said that. That's funny. I don't think he should have said it either, especially on live TV, like, to the man. Like, I don't think he should have said that either. And then the smile he had on his face after. He said it and was like, I think in Stephen A's entire response, he actually. He was like,

sober T.O. up a little bit and was like, hey man, I think in the entire response if you watched it, and maybe T.O. realized that. But in that moment,

that's what in them getches. That's one of them getches. Okay, so we had four rounds. You got three rounds to one. Max Kellerman. Yeah, I mean, do I think that makes him Muhammad Ali?

I'm sorry, Muhammad Kellerman? No. But he was, when I say I miss old first take, there were, healthy debates on on on no they weren't they were fun debates the show was an abomination back then okay no like it it is i like old first take you won't take that away from me i feel you but it is it was

entertaining that's what i'm saying the the the hot takeification of sports media has been just an abject disaster now no just like but this is what led to it okay but i liked the o g part of it i thought it was very entertaining. I miss that. Do I think that you can do it this way now? No, it's not the same. But at the time I liked this. My favorite first take, don't involve

showdown involves Jalen Rose. I know you were going to say that. Water Pistol Beach. Who are you to talk to me? Who are you to talk to me? You tell me, you act like I'm not

the man. Man, Jalen Rose, bro. And the evidence. Shout out to Jalen Rose. Yeah. How can you sit

across the table from me? You can give you a basketball opinion, but you're talking about my career. I played 16 years of the NBA. I was getting 20 a game. Who are you fucking talking to? Who the fuck do you think you are? If we were,

if right now, and this is the shit that I don't like, and this is the part of it that I make about race, right now if Jalen Rose or whomever else is going to, to go at Skip Bayliss or any of these guys about writing columns and doing all of that shit. They're not going to do that. They respect their place in media and all of that stuff.

But to sit across from somebody, and this happened with Chris Carter, this happened to Shannon Sharp, to sit across from somebody and have them tell you about you. When you didn't block, when you didn't score, you scored in the NBA. Jalen Rose is sitting across from Skip Bayliss. And Skip Bayliss is telling Jaylen Rose. about his career and what more Jaylon Rose should do when Skip Bayliss could not be a dog on his high school basketball team. These are the stats that Jalen Rose came

that came with for Skip. He averaged 1.4 points as a senior. He played junior varsity as a junior. Juniors? And then he called him Water Pistol Pete Jr. Did you average? And Jaylen was waiting. We got to go.

We got to go. Jail was waiting. Jail was like, did you? Did you, did you, did you play as a junior? Yeah, it's 1.5 points a game. Yeah, Pistol Pete. Water. Pistol Pete, Jr.

And then Skip Bayless had the fuck. I'm about to be like Stephen A. Smith. Had the unmitigated gall to get his fucking feelings hurt. After years. After years of using pejoratives and insulting terms to describe all of these different athletes. They had to have a two day long. cultural therapy session because Skip felt insulted.

And he pretty much had a ban from the show. Yeah. But the funniest part too is the reason Jalen responded that way is because Skip was implying that he knew had a deep understanding of basketball because of his high school playing days. I guess I guess I do miss the old first time.

That's what we found out. Thank you to Nana. Thanks to the Nana's homies who are actually from from DRIppies window cleaning service. So I don't know if you thought these guys... Servicing the Los Angeles area. I don't know if you could thought those guys were some way with the shits and that they might be.

But they are with Drippies Window Cleaning Service where you could go and get power washing, concrete, staining, solar panel cleaning and more. So if you need it, go to Josh Happens. Josh Happens J-O-S-A-P-P-E-N-S at Gmail.com That's Gmail with two L's brother, fix this card, man.

They have, he know that you, they know Gmail. He know that they know Gmail. So shout out to them. Great brothers. Go support their business if you're here

and you need window cleaning here in Los Angeles. You know what I'm saying? Before we go, Rach, how you feel like you responded in that situation? how you feel like you respond. I feel like there were a lot of things going.

You know, the situation, the environment really affects how you respond because I had a lot of things going on in my head. Like if that had been in my house and there were no cameras and sorry, there were no white people around, I think it would have been a little bit different. But in my mind, first off, I was like,

why do you say that in his head? Like, I was so annoyed with you saying it because I'm like, that is so offensive. So when the homie was like, what you mean, little nigga like that? I was like, I knew. You took his side. I knew that he was, I was like, I knew, I knew he was going to get offended.

And then I kept thinking, how does Van not see that that's not okay to say? I just couldn't, and I thought. So you were on, you were with them? No, I just thought, oh, he's fucking with them. He's like doing his thing. He knows, Nana. He's fucking with him. But like, he knows that it's not coming off right.

But then when he stood up, I mean, they sold it. When he stood up, I was like, fuck, it's three against one. the cameras are rolling there are white people in here I have to remain calm No I was like I was like We were just having this We were having this moment for the culture

And I was like I have to remain calm How do I defuse the situation What do I do if one of them hits van But then I kept thinking Why is everybody so quiet And I thought oh my God they're scared They're scared They don't know what to do

Rachel remain calm Like I kept telling myself to remain calm And then I finally was just like Got to stop this we got to stop this but if it had kept going, I would have been like, open the door. See, but this is my thing. I wasn't going to jump in unless you actually,

you didn't try to break it up. You ain't try to do. Donnie. Three grown men and I'm going to stand in there at the point, it was just arguing. You don't get involved with, I'm not going to jump in the middle of grown men arguing. But had it gotten physical?

You know what you got to do? You got to step in the way and you got to use your divine feminine. What would you have done if I would have been like, that's why I always keep her. That's the type of shit. That would have been so good. So y'all should have let me in on that.

And I would have been like, and that's why I always, you would have been shook. So you've pranked me. I've pranked you. We now got to start doing something where we prank the guess. That's better. Okay. When we prank the guess. We prank the guess on how I learned.

You never know you know. So don't know. Donnie, how do you feel like Rachel's response was? He should be proud. I think she showed up good. How many of y'all thought I was going to call for security? Be honest. No, I didn't think he was going to call for security.

I was really trying to see. I was interested. I had no clue of what you was going to do. No clue. I remained calm in the situation. You did. You didn't try to help me, but you did not freak out either.

No, I said, I got out of my seat. Now, if I had stood here the whole time a bit like this, you need to talk about me. All right, cool. Tell you think, caps off, but do not stop learning. I'm Van Lathen Jr.

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