Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Lecrae on Drake, Christian Rap, and His Place in Hip-Hop. Plus, Celebrating The Life Of Cicely Tyson.

Episode Date: January 29, 2021

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay discuss the GameStop stock situation (5:00) then bring on Lecrae to talk about his career and place in hip hop (19:00). Then they reflect on the life and career of Cicely Tyson (57:00), recap Matt James’s all-time weenie episode (1:03:00), discuss the horrifying story about Chad Wheeler (1:12:00), and answer some mailbag questions (1:25:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? It is I Van Lakey. It's me, Rachel Lindsay. What's wrong with you? What's wrong? You got to explain that. The people don't understand what's happening.

That's my little voice, man. I've been doing that voice for a long time. I don't understand what's happening. I've been doing that voice for years. Anyone who knows me right now is laughing hysterically because it's like the little old daddy voice. I've been doing the voice for years and years and years. The face is what really tops it off. It's like different moments where it's like super, like once at TMZ,

we had like a staff-wide meeting. Let me tell you how stupid this was. I told this on the other podcast. You'll like this, Rachel. So we had a TMZ employee once. Great guy. Great guy. Great guy.

But he sent an email, all staff. When I say all staff, I don't mean not to his department. I don't mean not to like the news desk, all staff, everyone who works for the entire company plus some Warner Brothers people, all staff email. And the subject line of the email was, a young girl rides large cock. No, no, man.

And it was a. a picture of Door the Explorer on the back of a chicken. So it was like some kind of weird oh hey Bose, how you doing, buddy? It was just like a, it was just like a weird joke. And it's like if you go look, it's a mean and you go look up to me, you mean, right?

So I come in from camera and we're having an all staff meeting and we're having an all staff meeting about this. And everybody's standing there as Harvey reams the entire newsroom, right? But nobody knows. Well, he doesn't say by name who it is that he's talking about. Well, didn't everybody get the email? Well, they got it, but I wasn't there.

So I wasn't in the office, so I didn't really know who had done it. So I remember a friend of mine. The camera down a little bit. Why? I just saw a little Bose just like peeking out. Hey, Bose is hanging out. You're getting big. Come here.

Show Bose. Oh, little Bozeman update. I hear the struggle in your voice. Is he that heavy? Oh, hi, buddy. Hey, Boz. Hey, Bozzer. Hey, Boz.

No, he's really big, by the way. Yeah, he's getting big. He's getting big. So, like, when Harvey was saying it, he was up there, and somebody showed me the email itself. I went, Daddy. Because it was such a, it was such a, I wasn't expecting it to be that bad. And people laughed. But so in moments of high stress, uh-huh.

Where the ice needs to be broken, that's when that voice comes out. You don't have anything like that? No, but does, is that how you feel right now? Is that why you came in with that voice? Are we in a high-stress situation? No, but it's, we're in a high-stress era. Okay. Which voice do you like better? The old daddy or the, what was it, whoop that ass? Baptist Church. Oh. Which which voice is better? Oh. Rachel, you

such a good journalist. I would say to put it on that ass vote. It's slatly. It's slightly more demonstrative when you're talking about putting it on that ass and Pasadika Pasad deacon put it on that ass

and put it on that ass by this church. Rachel, we have to talk about something. You want to do we have a, don't you want to tell the audience? We got a special announcement to make. we're going to do something special here in the near future of higher learning. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We do. Well, I think we all know.

We got a big month coming up in February, Black History Month. So, of course, we're going to do something special for it. Black, we're going to do something special for you guys. Each Wednesday of the month, we are dropping a bonus. Did you hear me put a T on the end of bonus? Yeah, I heard you. I said, bonus. I said, I said, a bonus.

Guest episode of Higher Learning to show all sides of the Black experience. So make sure that you subscribe to the show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast and be on the lookout for more details from us on who the special guests will be. One thing we can tell you is that you will not be disappointed. Every week we'll be bringing you a good one. Yeah, it's good. We got some good guests lined up. We got some great people.

We have a great guest on the show today. It's not a part of this whole thing. We got LaCray on the show today. That's right. Kicking it off right. One of the best rappers in the world. We're talking to them about a bunch of different things. McCray is going to talk to us.

You know, he's about his faith, about hip hop, how he feels about Drake, which is very interesting to me. All of those things. We're going to talk to LaCray in a second. Before we get to that, I want to talk to you real quick. Did you buy any GameStop stock? Have you been a part of this whole thing that's been going on? So, to my knowledge, I have not.

I'm pretty sure my guy has not bought. I'm sure I will receive a notification if I had stock in GameStop. Stop, game stop, but I don't. But I'm seeing a lot in the news. I'm seeing a lot is happening. Even old Jordan Belfort. Is that his last name? Oh, Wolf of Wall Street.

I saw him being interviewed about it. What's going on? Did you buy stock in it? I did not. Are you okay? Okay, maybe that I was thinking, maybe that's where the voice was coming from. So what's happening is pretty remarkable, Rachel.

Okay, it really is pretty remarkable. So this is what happened. This is what happened. Start back, do you know what shortening the stock is? Yes. Do you know? Okay. So what, in case you guys out there don't know what shorting the stock is,

shorting of stock is a bet that the price of an individual share of an individual company, the stock price will go down, right? So that's a bet that it'll go down. So essentially, let's see, let's say you're going to buy stock and van enterprises, right? normally the way you make money buying stock and ban enterprises is you buy it low and then you sell it high and all that money in the middle that you that you that that you get when the stock price goes up you take that well there's another way to make money off the stock market which is then betting that the stock price will go down so what you do in that sense is you borrow the stock right you don't buy it you borrow the stock right and then after the stock is borrowed when the stock goes down, you buy it at the new price. Now, stock doesn't have to go down. Stock could go up.

So if you then, if you, if you bet wrong, let's say you borrow the stock at, let's say you buy it at five and you think it's going to go down to three. Okay. But, right, and so you borrow it or you get in, you short the stock at five. Now, if the stock goes up to 10, then now you have to buy it back. So if you buy it back, that means you take a loss, you lose five bucks.

Here's the thing. It doesn't have to just go up to 10. The stock could go up. Really, your losses on that stock could be, you could lose all of your money because the stock could go up to a million. I mean, that's very unlikely. happen, but the stock, there's nothing that stops really the ceiling of a stock.

You could lose untold amounts of money. So this is what happens. There's a company called Melvin Capital. Okay. Melvin Capital had, is a hedge fund. And Melvin Capital had decided that GameStop, a company that is a brick and mortar retail video game selling company, Bozeman stopped buying me. No nipping.

Wow. Okay. Show love, but don't nip. All right, look. I'm trying to look. Oh, you said show love. He jumped up on you, Hypo's dad.

Yeah, show love, but don't nip. There you go. Yeah, yeah, just relax. So, so anyway, Melvin Capital had, they were short in GameStop. They looked at the price of GameStop last year, and they decided, hey, GameStop is not going to be profitable.

I think, I don't know if they got in at 10 or whatever the price, was and they decided, hey, we're going to bet the game stock is going to lose money. All right, because GameStop had been, it had been around three or four or five or something like that. It had gone up a little bit. They were betting that it was going to go back down. Yeah.

I didn't even know they still had those open. To be respectful now. Okay. I'm not a gamer. I'm a disclaimer. I'm not a gamer. I remember back in the day. So there's a subreddit called Wall Street Betts.

All right. Okay. They got a lot of people. people on the subreddit. Here's the thing. What will drive the price of a stock up, one of the things, of course, that can drive the price of the stock up is how many people are buying the stock. More people buy it, the higher the stock price goes. Forget about the fundamentals of the stock, which is the earning power, how profitable the company is, any future technology. Forget about the fundamentals. But a lot of people buy a stock,

a stock will go north. So essentially, what these guys from Reddit did was they bought so much game stop that it drove the stock up, not just to think about Melbourne Capital, who got in, I really, I'm not sure I think it was around 10 bucks or something like that,

maybe more, maybe it was more, it might have been like 40 bucks. I can't remember what it was. But think, let's say they got in at 20. And then the stock goes up. North,

we're talking about 150, $250, $200, they single-handedly brought a hedge fund to its needs to the point to where Melbourne Capital had to get a capital they had to get an injection

like a capital injection that they have to strike a deal they have to come and be bailed out essentially, the easy way to say they had to be bailed out by some of their friends on Wall Street. Now something else that happened is the big part of it is why you see politicians get involved in it

is Robin Hood, the trading app that a lot of these traders use, remember, because they're retail traders, they're private citizens. So they're using a trading app like Robin Hood. Robin Hood then took GameStop and other companies they were trying to do that, like they deleted it out of the thing. So you couldn't search for GameStop and get in on it anymore and drive the price up. So essentially what you have is something that's super duper fascinating that's happening right now. You have sort of like a revolt against some of the systems that are at play at Wall Street. See, all of these guys play these games with money. And because people don't have the information and the access, they can't really get in on it.

Right. But in this case, these guys over at the Reddit forum got together, made a shit ton a boatload of bread and also at the same time brought a hedge fund that was playing games with the stock market to its knees. So did they know what the hedge fund

was that they had short were short selling their stock? Did they know that? And that's why? Like, was it purposeful? Or were they just like, hey, we're going to do, we're going to go in on this stock?

Well, see, here's the deal. They had to have known. I'm not actually sure about that part. But they had to have known. They had to have known. Okay. But here's two things about it. Number one, people are talking about whether or not all of this stuff is legal.

It's completely legal to do this unless the only way it would be illegal is if you were operating with inside information. Right, right, right. If you had inside information, if there was something that you knew that hadn't happened yet or it was going to happen, then you can't do this. On the other side of it, these big hedge funds, they play games. with these companies too. So like if a hedge fund decides that they're going to short a specific company or a specific stock,

then what they'll do is they'll collude with the media, they'll collude with other things, talk down about the company's earning power or about shakeups that might leak all kinds of stuff and they can artificially depress a stock's value thereby ensuring the bet that they made. So it's really kind of kind of nan-nanny boo-boo

this kind of thing happens to you now. Now, before we move on, so people have a full understanding of this, Star Wars. It's not like this isn't going to affect working people in any way. A lot of people have their pensions and things like that invested with hedge funds. Hedge funds, they invest pension funds. I'm not necessarily saying that Melvin Capital is investing in people's pensions or other things like that. But if they are,

and they were to ruin, then those people would lose all their money. Yeah. All right. This scares me. It is scary. Like, it scares me because I have stock. So I'm like, well, what's, not in GameStop,

but just like, well, what's going on? Well, if you had stock and GameStop right now, you'd be bawling. Yeah, I know, because they drove it up. I know. Because they drove it up, you'd be bawling. But, you know, and, you know, it gets to a point to where, and this kind of happens when you, when you short a stock, if you short a stock and the stock goes through the roof,

then what your broker or whoever will say will do to you will be something called a margin call. And they'll basically say, hey, your position is fucked. All right? And because your position is fucked, you got to either make it right

or we're taking everything out of it that you have. That's a cruel way of saying kind of what that is. Now, Melvin Capital says they got out of GameStop. Okay. I don't know if they did. Why do you say that? They might be lying.

They might be trying to protect their reputation, Rach. They might be lying. I don't trust anything or anybody at this point. What did Jordan say? Look, you know what we should, you know what we should do? Like, we should try to get, we should try to, pick a company that you would like to see the Wall Street bets drive up the price on it. if it could be any company. Just forget about the bets and whether or not,

like what company would you pick? I don't know. I mean, I'm trying to think of a black-owned company. That's my first thought. Just for me. Great. Just for me.

Just for me. Are they publicly traded? I don't know. If just for me, if just for me the hair care product for young black girls, just for me.

Remember that? Shiny and something. And done and done. Just for me. I so wanted a job. My mom was like, we're not putting that on your head. You're not getting to burn. You're not getting to burn.

Look, if just for me is probably, it's probably if that's publicly traded, shall I say. Just for me is on there. Then we should get all the Wall Street bets people to just drive up the stock of Just for Me. I'm sure they'll make like Debbie Allen rich or something like that. I'm sure.

Dehallon probably owns all of it. Connected to everything. Oh, but did you see this? This had, like AOC was talking about this. AOC was talking about the fact that she, there needs to be investigation into why Robin Hood is stopping private Americans,

you know, American citizens for participating in the stock market. A lot of people, though, it wasn't just AOC. A lot of people were, Seemed like from all. Cicely Tyson just passed away. No. Yes. No.

Oh, my God. I just, I literally just saw her in October. No. Yes. Yes. Come on, man. All right. Okay, we're doing this on the fly.

We're doing this on the fly. So we have an interview with LaCray coming up. Okay. We have Matt James, we needy Rose. We have Mailbag. So we're going to go ahead and say that for right now, mailbag for today is canceled.

So this is what we're going to do. We are going to go right now to our interview with La Cray. Okay. We're going to come out of the interview with Lecrae, and we're going to reflect on the life of Cicely Tyson. All right. We're going to, you guys, it's very important that you guys understand just how important,

just how just how just a man. just how long the career of Cicely Tyson was. So this is in real time. We're going to go to the interview with Lecrae. We're going to come out of it. And we're going to introduce probably a lot of our audience to one of our most gifted creatives in America. Man.

Very sad. Okay. Let's take a break. The playoffs are here. And you can predict the action all the way to the final with Fandul Predict. Predict the spread, total points, and even the game winner. Sign up and get a $25 bonus.

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Sweetgreen.com. Uh, yeah. Look, we're being stunned on again. And here's the thing. It happens. The better the guests, the more you get studied on. And we have a fantastic guest with us today. Legitimately, one of the most talented, grounded, centered, most amazing human beings on planet Earth.

He is a rapper. He is an author. I recently got the book. Well, actually, I didn't get the book. You sent to me the book because, you know, that's how we get down. We're brothers like that. Thought Warriors, Lecrae, is in the high. with us today.

Let me ask you a question because before I was going to introduce you, and we'll get to the book in a second, as I see it right over there on my bookshelf, I was going to introduce you as a Christian rapper. How does that introduction sit with you? At this point in my career, man, I just realized, you know, it is what it is. That's kind of how, it's like, if that's what people know you as, it's almost no point in trying to like wrestle with it. It's like, Beyonce is more than an R&B singer,

but that's what they're going to call her. So it's almost like, you know what I mean? She's a pop icon. Prince. I don't even know how you categorize Prince, but you know. So for me, it's like Christian to me is a better noun than adjective, but I get tired of fighting all those stuff. because I'm not going to fall into the little category or the box that you probably have in your mind when you say Christian, but, you know, it is what it is.

So what would be the perfect way in terms of musically that Lecrae would describe himself? I'm, end of the day, I'm a hip-hop artist. You know what I'm saying? Like, I love the culture. I love the craft. I so happen to be a Christian who does hip-hop. I think it's a difference. We're going to get in there.

It's kind of like this. I think there's rappers who are white and then there's white rappers. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? Like there's people who can spit and they're white.

And then there's like a whole genre of like white rappers. And then so it's like for me there's Christian rappers. Like that's the whole little thing. And then there's Christians who rap. And I feel like, like I'm a Christian, but I really do this. I really love the culture of hip hop.

I really am. So don't throw me in the little box. But I feel like that's why people can resonate with you so well because people may have stereotypes, not may, they do, have stereotypes of what a Christian is or what a Christian looks like or how a Christian is supposed to be. But then you're able to bring something different to the table. And do you feel like that's what's been able,

why you've been able to connect with so many people and really transcend just outside of Christian rap? Yeah, I mean, end of the day, I always say to me, the church is like a greenhouse, and I come from the jungle. I know how to do the greenhouse. You know what I'm saying? I've been in there. I get it.

But I'm authentically from the jungle. It's just what I naturally connect to. So I think people are more shocked. You know what I mean? Like, how do you know about that? How do you know about that? I'm like, you are under the misconception that I'm not really from the soil. So it's all good.

I get it. But it, you know, it's kind of like, hey, I'm just in my own skin. living now. I think there's something else that we're leaving now when we're talking about this is that the rest of these guys ain't really nice. You know what I mean? And I'm not, look, I've heard

because what happens is when you grow up near the church, obviously from down there in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, very churchy. People give you Christian rap to listen to. When they hear you listen, I never forget, I was listening to MC Hammer. And I don't know why they thought Hammer's music was of the devil. That's kind of what you would want people to listen to, but one of my pastors was like, hey, I know you like the hammer,

but there's this other guy. These are these other guys that they're rapping. You want to try them, okay? This is a guy. And they gave me a DC talk tape. That's what I was, that's who I got too. Now, look, I'm not dissing. But it wasn't for me.

It's not, it's not like, it didn't have the same. It was unfamiliar. You know what I'm saying? It was, but earlier in this decade, I can't remember. It was like, there had to be maybe like 2012. or something like that. I can't remember what it was. My whole boy Ian goes,

hey, bro, is this new Christian rapper? I was like, nah, that's okay. I don't know. Hey, I was like, nah, I want to. He's like, no, but this dude, seriously, he's nice. He nice, and it was you.

And so since then, I've been a fan. We've run into you. We've talked before. Since then, I've been a huge fan. I guess my question for you is this. Whenever anyone wins an award and they get on the stage, the first person they think is God.

Right. Right. And that's kind of what my dad used to say, God exists. He has the biggest presence on awards show stages and in foxholes. That's like when you, that's when you hear this. That's when you hear about God. Is it possible to be a devout Christian, have God up on an award stage with you, but not necessary flowing throughout your music? Because you, you're so a ground. in who you are, that when I listen to your songs, I get an understanding of your faith. There are a lot of other rappers out there. I'm not trying to call any children. I'm just asking you the question that I wouldn't know they were Christians if they didn't say it when they were getting an award because their music isn't about that.

What do you stand on that? Do you have an opinion? Yeah, I think it's probably a lot more complex. It's probably not as simple all that, but I think in my experience, people love to

attribute good things to a deity, you know what I'm saying? Like, or even a universe or whatever. They rarely will they attribute negative things to, you don't hear people saying, man, I just want to, man, I'm so mad at the universe. You know what I'm saying? It's usually

like, I just want to thank the universe. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So I feel like people, you know, usually attribute good things to like some higher power and um and just trying to be consistent with that. I feel like that's what ends up happening. When something good happens for you, you just want to feel like man like God is smiling on you or you know, you're like, wow, how did this happen? And um, and so some people may be sincere. Some people may be like, yo, I'm sincerely believe God did this. Other people may be like, that's just kind of like the

lullaby effect. That's just what you do. You. You know what I mean? You take your hat. You come in the building. I don't know why I'm taking my hat off, but I guess some kind of way it's respectful. So I think I feel like it's more like that type. You know, I want to talk about what it is to be a Christian today. Because Van and I have had these conversations on the podcast,

and I feel like it's always hard to be a Christian in the world, but it seems even harder than ever just because people are using Christianity to either tell you to stay in your lane or using it as a way. And I know that it's even been used against you because you've been very vocal about standing up for Black Lives Matter, whether it be on social media or just even beyond that. And a lot of Christians, I don't know if I say a lot, but Christians have accused you of spreading a divisive message or have been kind of told you just stick to the gospel. You know, like we don't get involved in all of that. And I'm curious for you, like, how do you reason that and how do you handle that? We're driving off the deep end.

Let's go. We just met, but let's go. Man, I just, you know what? I think there's Christianity. And then there's American evangelicalism, which is not really, it's like this mix of Christian belief in nationalism. You know what I mean? And I think they're not, they're not the same thing.

Like this Eastern religion started by a Jewish Palestinian man. You know what I mean? It's not the same thing as this, you know, conservative Republican evangelical movement that we see happening. And I think if people went and traveled more, like I've been around the world. I've been to, you know, seeing the Coptics in Egypt and the, the folks in Ethiopia and in Japan. And I've seen it's so much bigger than what we look at in the United States.

So you kind of have to deal with the dogma that exists here and just be like, y'all don't get it. But, I mean, that's why they killed Jesus because they didn't get it the same way then as they don't get it now. So it's almost like, it just comes to the territory. I think it's unfortunate because it drives, pushes a lot of people away. Like they begin to believe that what they're seeing is authentic Christianity. And it's really just this, it's dogma. You know what I'm saying? It's probably some people who sincerely believe this.

But by the end of the day, what you got to understand is all throughout history, there's always been some Christians who use the Bible or people who use the Bible. I won't call them Christians. People use the Bible for their own selfish motives from Constantine to the Sleeves. slave masters to people praying over the bombs, bomb in Japan, to the church fathers in Germany, being anti-Semitic and, you know, inspiring Hitler. Like, they're always going to use it. And I mean, it happens with all religions.

You know what I mean? They just try to use it for their own selfish desires. And I don't think that was the, I know that's not the heartbeat and the intention. So end of the day, I'd just be like, all right, cool. That's what you I want to believe. Then, I mean, more power to you. I feel bad for you. But I'm going to keep doing what I do.

I'll be honest with you. I'm frustrated. I'm personally frustrated. And I'm frustrated and I'm sad and I need to be restored. I'm serious. And I'm frustrated because Jesus' message is pretty simple. and that's why it's so beautiful, right? It's just pretty simple.

And to be honest with you, whether or not you believe that Christ died to save your soul, it has nothing to do with it. Like even philosophically, the message of Jesus is pretty beautiful and pretty straight up. The co-opting that you say has happened, that we all can agree has happened, my question is,

do you think that it has been done? co-opted consciously to mislead people. Because, see, my thing is, when I see, when I see people yelling, screaming, and talking about, I wonder if they understand the very simple rules that Christ gave as to how to be the best human being. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's specific rules about how to have your soul saved,

but then there are specific rules about just how to live. Yeah. And I can't believe that. that some of these people has misinterpreted these rules to this degree, there's got to be something more to it. Am I wrong for thinking that it's purposely misleading people with the way that some of these people are acting? No, I think for sure that's what they do. I mean, it's the book of Eli. You've seen the book of Eli? It's like when you know. But I do think that there's certain people in powerful positions who manipulate truth to manipulate people. And then there's the minions who

believe it. You know what I'm saying? Like they are sincere. I honestly think there was some sincere people storming the Capitol thinking that God endorsed

that nonsense. I think they sincerely believed it but they were taught to believe that and they in the same way by people who knew better. Exactly.

Right. People who knew better. Exactly. Right. Right. Yes. I totally believe it. Yeah.

Yeah. It's scary. I mean, yeah. It's power. That's what you do. You know what I mean? It's like you see that all over the place. I think it matters more.

It may matter more to you and me because we've seen something beautiful get corrupted where other people never gave it a chance. It's like my music. That's how I feel. It's like, bro, I promise I'm just trying to make good art. No, I got that Christian stamp on it, bro. I don't even know what I'm saying.

All right, you know what I'm saying. I don't know what to do. I don't know what to tell you. But look, Craig, wouldn't you say that, and you kind of mention this, when you were talking a little bit before, that we've seen this happen throughout history where people use religion to hold other people down or, you know, to manipulate certain people to do things the way that they want them to, specifically slavery. I mean, the Bible was used

and, you know, scripture was used and they had people preaching this, even black preachers going around, you know what I mean, to hold us down in that way. You mentioned something on your social media where you talked about the idolization of government and you talked about the idolization of government And you talked about government, idolizing government and politics and that it's at the root of multiple problems in the church. I was wondering if you could like speak a little bit more on that. Yeah. I mean, that's just the whole thing. It's like when you believe nationalism is when you exalt the nation above humanity.

So all of a sudden it's not, it's no longer about the people in the nation. It's about the nation itself. It's the empire. You know what I'm saying? You want the empire to win at the cost of humanity. So it's like, yo, for our nation to be a superpower, I don't care. innocent black people got to get killed in the street. That's what's got to happen for this nation

to be a superpower. And that's where you start blending nationalism with your faith because you feel like God is somehow made your nation the special one. Like, oh yeah, this is God's special nation, so it's got to win, which is

really stupid. It's antithetical to the whole idea of a global faith because it's global. So, you know what I'm saying? And it's like, to me, it's always, it's trippy to me and people be like, yo, dog, you see what's going on right now? I think God coming back. I'm like, if I, if you was living in Nigeria, you would think God coming back for the last 50 years.

Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, America's not the center of God's agenda. You know what I mean? So that, that kind of pisses me off in as far as that's concerned. But, but yeah, to answer your question, I think people just marry the nation to like, I mean, they believe it. the Constitution was, you know, like, oh, these were Christian dudes, and they got it from the, some people believe the Constitution is the Bible.

They really do. They literally believe the Constitution is the Bible. And never have read it. Right. It never had read. Right. Interesting document. Like the Bible. So I'm going to ask you one more question along this,

and then I want to get into something. I was going to get on my rap shit with you. There's one specific issue that Rachel and I talked about on this podcast, and it has to do with somebody who I know. I'm just going to ask you about this. I don't know. I don't know what this is going. Do you know what is?

Maybe I know. Maybe. I don't know. Rachel, you do know. It has to do with somebody I know, somebody who's a pastor at a big church. Okay. We really got into it on this one.

We really got into it on this one. Somebody who's a pastor at the big church. Carl Lins. All right. Oh. Carl Lins. You know Pastor Carl. I'm sure you know Pastor Carl.

Now, me of him. Rachel were going back and forth, what I was wondering is if it was proper for Hillsong to have fire past a call because of everything that had happened, being that to me, I think when someone falls, that's the moment that you have the opportunity to demonstrate grace. Because there's a family and there's a wife and there's all of this, not saying that the guy is a perfect guy, but just saying that after everything that's happened, there seems to have been like a huge,

huge, huge, huge turning on him. I'm not saying that the shit that was going on was cool or kosher or whatever. I guess, am I wrong for thinking that somebody like that in that position, that part of being a Christian

is being an active Christian and maybe counseling and helping repair in that situation? is sort of the better a road to take other than like breaking them apart, kicking them out of the church, ripping them of their leadership role. You have a leadership role in a lot of people's faith. How do you feel about that? Yeah. So yes and no, I agree.

But I also think there's levels to it. Like, I think the role of a pastor is like real significant. Yeah I mean. Like, yeah. It's kind of like you're trusted to guide people. It doesn't mean you're better or you like have, you have a different moral code you got to live by,

so to speak. But it does mean like, hey, people got to trust you and, and trust that you got situations set up around you to keep you in a, in a healthy space. Right. And so, you know,

you just want to be able to trust somebody in that, Now, yes, I agree with you that, you know, hey, people get shot every day, B, people mess up every day. We're saying all the time. It's affairs popping off all over the place. So that's, it's not anything new. It's something that restoration can be applied to. It's something that help and healing. And honestly, what you probably will see in most minority churches is if something like that happened, he might get sat down for a little while.

Not even. Yeah. I mean, sometimes. Yeah. Put up to the side for a minute and then you have to, yeah,

got me, go to some counseling or something and then get it back on track. So I do think, I do think that too often this kind of American church infrastructure

or Western is so business-oriented. It's modeled after a business. Absolutely. So it's, It's, you know, it's a building. There's funds.

You got to manage clientele. And so I think it's easier to fire people or cut them out or excommunicate them because it's more of a business infrastructure than it is like a place, a community of God. You know what I mean? So I think if it wasn't so business oriented, you wouldn't see as much of that. But when people start thinking about money, they're going to lose and that's part. Yeah, I mean. Would you like to see Pastor Carl get another chance?

Yeah, I think everybody, I mean, well, I don't know his specific situation. I do think he did, I do think it is always worth it to reach out to try to restore somebody to try to get them to help, the healing that's necessary and to see their redemption story, to see that God can can make a masterpiece out of a mess. That's always the best option. All right. Word. It sounds like Lecray and I said the same thing. That's not what you said. That is exactly what I said.

It's not what you said. Because I don't believe that he should be kicked to the curb. I said he shouldn't have that position. That's what I said. He shouldn't have the position anymore. Come on. Don't get upset. You lost this one.

I do want to ask me this before you. It's not about losing. David, read your Bible. David did all. You know what? That's okay. No, read your Bible. It happens all the time.

You don't have to tell me. But God works. Whatever. Let's not fight in front of company. Go ahead and ask the question to the great La Cray. Before you get into the. It's a rap like you want to. I do want to give you the chance to talk about this

because I know people like Charlie Kirk have told other Christians to not listen to your music because you supported now Senator Raphael Warnock and I just want to give you an opportunity to respond to that. I did see the video that you did on YouTube where you were talking about your stance on pro-choice versus pro-life

but I want to give you an opportunity to address that because I think a lot of us are know people who say certain things like this even to us. Oh, you support this. So I'm against you for this. Or how does you, as a Christian, could you support this? So I just want to give you the opportunity to talk about it. I never got into a real rap beef before.

So I always wanted somebody to be like, go tell me about so people. And I could be like, who do that? No, but, uh. No, I like that. I like that. Um, but I, but I, I'll just say this, you know, I don't think people see the amount of racist rhetoric that comes out their mouth when they try to cancel, you know what I'm saying? Like, you represent one of the largest majority white institutions and organizations out there.

And you're saying, don't invite this black man into another church again. And like, that's so, all the white supremacy wrapped up in that is crazy that they don't even see it. Like, that's wild to me. But then even on a spiritual level, it's like, bro, who are you? You can't cancel God's plans. If God want to use me, he's going to use me. What are you talking about? You know what I mean?

Like, you can't stop the hand of God. Like, if God don't want to use me, then cool. But if he do, he do. And then I guess more than anything, for me, I don't believe either, first of all, it's sad that you so. connect the church to a political party that a person who votes opposite of you or you or you perceive that they voted opposite of you is now some sort of heretic or some sort of like the Antichrist. That's crazy to me. 86% of black people vote progressive.

Yeah I'm saying. And I'm sorry, 96% of black people vote progressive. 86% of white people vote conservative. That's just America. You know what I mean? So what it tells me is you haven't done research to understand why black people vote. in the way they do. And you've taken this higher moral ground

as it pertains to pro-life as if, you know, babies in a womb are more important than Tamir Rice outside the womb. You know what I mean? Like, you got the higher moral ground. How about we care about it all? And we're making decisions in the midst

of everything going on that we feel like best suit our situation in our circumstances. That's, you can give people the, the freedom to do that. But these folks, man. But anyway, who was that dude you were talking about? Who?

Don't know. Yeah, I never understood that. God gives you free will, but it seems like sometimes they don't want to, right? They want to govern by dogma, but you can't do that. That's antithetical to, we have to kind of govern the best interests for everyone and then tell people what we think is the best are the best option. You know what I mean? We have to govern. We have to say, hey, you're free to do that.

but look, if there's any way to have you not do it, I'll help you. But whatever it is, right? Because if that was the case, then I don't understand I've always said this to, you know, because I'd go back and forth. If that was the case, then pre-marital sex would be illegal. That's a sin. Like, why isn't that illegal? That's so much sense right now.

You got out. Not always is that not illegal. It's amazing. Okay, let's move on. This is true. I did not enforce that. Now let me ask you this Just or something else

Because I'm, you know, I get my bag when I'm listening to you And I'm thinking to myself, I have hip hop Arguments with my friends all the time And we talk about top fives And sometimes we talk about top five Sometimes we talk about who's hot We talk about who's doing this, who's doing that, who's doing this

is rare that anyone ever brings your name up. And I know why. I know why because they don't think that you are one of those other rappers, right? It's the filter of the actual Christian rap moniker. Maybe it doesn't make them listen. Maybe they don't tour. Maybe they don't rank you alongside some of these other guys. Does that bother you?

Like, do you think that you are one of the top five rappers in the game? Do you think you are the best rapper in the game? Do you think you deserve a place in that conversation? No, they don't bother me. And the reason why I don't bother me is because, nah, I feel like, I feel like I run in my lane very well. You know what I'm saying? Like, I feel like I run in my lane very well.

And I never, I appreciate, those who do amazing things in their, you know, it's funny because we have this conversation all the time. Like, I'll be like, to me, Royce the 5-9 is one of the most technically gifted rappers out there, right? Right. My gosh. Shout out Royce. Technically, amazingly gifted. Yeah. And it's rare for people to be like, he's my top five. But I'm like, but he's technically better than a lot of the people in your top five. You know what I mean? So what are we, like, how are we basing this? What are we basing it off of? Influence. You know, like Tupac was he may not have been the most like metaphor, wordplay, all that type of stuff, you know what I mean?

But he connected with you on a deep level. So I feel like for me, I know I connect with people on a deep level. So even if I'm not like, if I'm never seen, it's like, yo, he's the most technically gifted or he's this or he's that, I know they like, bro, nobody speaks to my soul within hip hop like this man does. And that to me is the greatest compliment. If somebody's like, you're speaking that real to my soul and it's what I need. Because that's what I aim to do. So you think you're the deepest rapper in the game?

I don't know about the deepest. You know what I'm trying to do? I'm giving you an opportunity to talk your shit right now. And you're too covered. Just turn around. You're two cover. Just turn around. Just show us behind you.

He's two cover. in the blood. He's like, low, he's looking at him right there. He's two covered in the blood. You know what I mean? Like, but, but seriously, it's the question because I'm talking to people.

I'm talking about a little brother and one of the guys that put me on you. He goes like, man, ask him if he, if he, if he mad that people do sleep on how nice he is. I just think, I think like period point blank, when it comes to anything that has to do with a spiritual or religious. category, people tend to not give credit to the amount of talent that go. Like, to me, Kurt Franklin is awesome. Like, he's one of the most musical, he's a musical genius. He wrote all them songs.

But they're not going to celebrate him like they celebrate Prince. You know what I mean? Like they're not because they, oh, he's the gospel guy. You know what I'm like, yo, this man wrote these crazy songs. played them, orchestrated him. And I don't think he'll get that credit. So I think because of that, you know, I don't know where I would fit if it wasn't for that.

I don't know how I would fit in hip-hop. Sometimes I think about that. I feel like, you know, I don't know where I would sit or where I would fit in a lot of ways. I guess I'll never know. But I don't feel like, yo, I'm Andre 3000 level. You know what I mean? I feel like he's at a, you know, he's amazing.

He just has contributed music. music in a way like none other. So, you know, I don't know where I'm at. Maybe I'm, yeah, that's so interesting question. I don't know where I said. Like, where would you be? Like, you think you rap better than, let's say, Drake. That's a yes.

He was going to say yes. Drake is amazing at what he does, and he's a great executor. I don't know about his writing. I can't speak. Right. Right. Okay. I'll tell you.

I feel you. I feel you. I feel you. There was a whole thing there. Rachel, what did you have? You were like you, Rachel, you want to get deep into the hip hop situation with Ligre? No.

I know. I knew she was. And I feel like, do you want to do a follow-up question? Because I feel like you try to take a jab like. Nope. Nope. I just knew that I just knew you weren't going to come in.

Yeah, what do you think about cool as you rap? I just wasn't expecting it. So go ahead. I was, I was good with when I said DC talk. That was pretty much it for me. That was pretty much it for me. No.

But speaking of music, though, you are working on a new mixtape. Church Clothes 4. Now, I read that when you did Restoration last year, you said that that might be your last full album. Is that true? I mean, I just, I don't know, but I put it to you like this. I definitely, I definitely felt like I said what I needed to say on Restoration. So I'd have to be inspired in some new kind of way. you know what I mean?

It's like, yeah, I have to be inspired in some new kind of way to have a whole album's worth of material. Like, Church Close is my hip-hop contribution. I don't really care about the commercial offerings. I'm just about the, it's straight rap. That's just like a rap project. So I'm not really worried about it. The thing for me with albums is there's so much, it's like,

there was so much expectation. And it's like, all right, this combination and this song. oh, you got to get the feature. And then, you know, it's like all these particular things. And it kind of takes away the fun of just getting in the studio and crafting music, which is kind of where I'm at. You know, I think the expectation level gets so high once you accomplish so much that it takes the fun out of it.

It's like, oh, yeah, yeah, you had a platinum single with Tori Kelly, what you're going to do not? And I'm like, girl, I just want to go in the studio and be inspired. Exactly. Yeah. So I don't know. We'll see. But I'm about to have fun with this.

I really want to make, you know, some good classic hip-hop music because in the day, that's really where I come from. And that's what I'm excited about. So the book, I am restored. Yeah. Okay. Fantastic work. Thank you, man.

I actually gave me a deeper understanding of who you are and how, and like, and just of how all it is, you know, manifest itself. You know, we've been going back and forth kicking texts and stuff back and forth for a couple years now, but I really feel like, you know, it's a deep and understanding of your worldview. I feel like right now, America needs to be restored. And not saying that it was better

before, not saying that there's ever been a good time necessarily for us, but there is something recently that was specifically lost. It feels like, it feels like there were times just recently with things and chains. If you were going to pray or

ask for the restoration of America from God, what specifically would you ask for right now? When you look out there, what do you feel like we're missing? I mean, there's no, it sounds cliche, but it's not, when I say it,

I'll try to unpack it. But genuine love, man, like loving your neighbor as yourself, like seeing people as people. Even though we're different and we have different views and beliefs, like we're on some civil war type vibes right now you know what I'm saying like there's a us and a them and I think um to me it's like that is where selfishness and we're arrogance and we're pride

and as a man of faith where I feel like you know the devil wins the day because you now you playing the game. You know what I mean? It's like, so, so look at, I look at it like this. You know, if the black community, just using that as an example, let's say to take the black community once upon a time, we was all together and we was hanging out and everybody was cool barbecues and picnics and a whole nine, whatever. And then it's like this block started getting bigger and stronger and this block was like,

yo, why y'all getting bigger and stronger? Now we're the Bloods and we the Crips. And now it's like we fighting against each other, but it's like, man, look how big we've gotten. Look how big we've gotten. And y'all proud of how big you've gotten individually, but y'all are playing the wrong game because the game y'all should have been playing

was building up the entire black community as a whole so that it has some power in this nation and that you can move the mountains and shift the things you want to shift. So I just feel like we are, we're playing into the hands of the enemy by allowing all this stuff to fester. You know what I mean?

Instead of team each other like, you know, collectively. And I mean, I know it sounds like some kumbaya stuff, but I'm saying if we really, like if we saw each other, like Dr. King said on the basis of our character, then, you know, we wouldn't have to have these. Black people wouldn't be talking about Black Lives Matter if we wasn't worried about y'all seeing us as, you know, like them thugs over there. You know, if you were looking at the content of our character, we wouldn't have to be talking about our color, our ethnicity all the time. But that's not the reality that we live in.

It's very true. Well said. I don't want to ask another question after that. You don't? You don't? Like, hey, I mean, it's fantastic. I'm not to let La Cray. I'll just let you guys know some about La Cray.

I'm like 6'4 La Cray's gigantic Like you Like you I met La Cray one time And I turned around I thought La Cray was Shook security

I was like he was in Like he was in I'm not even joking Where I saw you at I saw you at the At the Beverly Hilton or something like that Oh yeah

Let y'all know something La Cray is godly But don't mean You know God said you know God wants you to be prosperous And Lucre is prosperous out here, man. You know, he's doing his thing.

So when I didn't see La Cray at the Motel 6 or the Weston, Lucre was at the Beverly Hilton. Last, he got to be there. Well, I'm like, it's brilliant. You, you hoop. You got basketball pass and stuff like that, right? Nice things, you do all. You don't have to explain yourself

here, Lucre. I ain't saying if you trust God, he's going to give them to you. But I'm not saying if you can get a serious All right. All right. Hey, listen, seriously, I'm continuously inspired by you, bro. I'm a continuously inspired by somebody who makes Christianity cool, who makes it accessible,

and more than any of that, who just makes great music and contributes to the culture, bro. So I have a great amount of respect for you, and I wish you nothing, nothing but success in everything that you want to do. And when you want to battle, Drake, when you want to do the whole thing, when you want to call it, we're here for that too. Well, you could do it here. Because you need it, because I'm not going to lie. You said you ain't never had a rap beef before.

I think you need one. I always had one with game one time, but he was tweaking. I was like, bro, I'm not even trying to. What are you talking about, right? Right. But see, it would be good if, like, you had like a, like a positive beef. A positive rap beef? Like, instead of a, instead of a.

What does that look like? Because like somebody diss them, right? And then instead, how about this? Somebody dis Lucrere. And the Lucre writes a response track called the other cheek. And it's about all the ways he's just son him. The whole culture will be behind you. They'd be like, yo, bro, the great Jedi mind tricked them, bro.

Now out of the other cheek, the whole nine, I'm telling you. That'll be honest. It's some folk, it's a dude named Saga, who's like a battle rapper. He'd be on that, for real, like, check him out. He'd be really on that. I'd be like, yo, I couldn't be a battle rapper because, Because I'm saved, but my battle rap ain't. So I don't think I'm saying.

I'll be like, man, you're good. All right, my man. Appreciate you, bro, as always. Yes. Go get the book. I am restored. When you drop in the new restoration is out now. When you drop in the project?

Mix tape. I mean, 2021, I don't know when yet. You know what I'm saying? It just depends on who I got to get in the studio with. you know what I mean. So it just depends on who I'm rocking with. But yeah, I'll probably, you know, if a world opens back up,

I'll be out in L.A. recording some stuff as well. So, you know what I mean? All right, my man. Appreciate you, brother. Wish you well. Thanks for being here. No, man.

Thank you. I had a fun. Had a blast. Peace. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business.

It keep companies of all sizes connected with Internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support, millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Service is not available in all areas. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Trimfaya offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks.

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Ask your doctor about Tramphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Tramphiatoradio.com. Okay, so you said that you had just interviewed Sisley Tyson Tyson. I did. I just interviewed Cicely Tyson on the red carpet at the opening of Tyler Perry's new studios and I did it for extra

this was October of I said last year, wow, so much time passes it was 2019. It was October of 2019. And I had the pleasure of meeting her and just talking to her about what the moment meant she was being honored, what it meant to be honored.

If you don't know, Tyler Perry's studios are in Atlanta, and they were built on a Confederate Army base used to be on that land. So from going from that to having a black-owned studio where he was naming them after the people who had inspired, Tyler Perry was naming them after the people who had inspired his career. Sisley Tyson was there. She was beautiful. She was powerful. She actually was speaking to me.

Sadly enough, Diane Carroll had just passed away the day before. So she was reflecting on her life as well. Man, Cicely Tyson is a trailblazer. I mean, for as long as I can remember, she has been on our television screens or TV screens and the big screen. Yeah. Seven, seven decade long acting career. She was 96, you guys. 96 when she passed away.

was nominated actually received an honorary academy award was nominated for an Academy Award for Sounder Oh, Sounder. Amazing, yeah. Really, to be honest with you, the career itself

was just one that was kind of she was synonymous with elegance. She was synonymous with class and she was synonymous with just rich, rich, rich performances. Like I remember when I was a kid, what we had on VHS, this movie, the autobiography of Jane Pittman. Yeah.

And that was kind of like the first time I saw Cicely Tyson. But my mother would tell me that this was the best actress in the world. This was the best actress in the world. Cicely Tyson was the best actress in the world. And you want to know something weird? it was one of the first times that I can remember. Not that my parents didn't tell me different things like this all the time, but it was the first time that I can actually remember connecting somebody being the best in the world at something to being black.

You know what I mean? So like when you learned about, you know, Dr. Margaret Luther King Jr. and Jackie Robinson and all of those people, there was always a past casting tool. Yeah. Like these were war people who were. live and had done great things. And I would go on to have heroes that were black and who were the best in the world and stuff. You know, Michael Jordan, guys like that.

You know, Barack Obama and all the people like that all throughout my life. There's enough excellence to choose from. But I remember my mother didn't say, hey, look at this historical figure. I remember she said, this lady right here is the best actress in the world. Yeah. Yeah. And that like that was, and I looked at Cicely Tyson as, that for my entire, you know, young life.

And she was among the very best actresses who have ever lived before. And you have to think about the times, the times when she was on our, I mean, obviously, Van just said, you know, for 70 years, she's been, she's been working, she's continued to work. But when she started out, you didn't see many people of color on your, your TV screen in the movies that way. You didn't, we didn't have superstars. We couldn't look.

That's why people speak so the way they do about Diane Carroll. There were so many first with them. And so when you saw yourself represented, they were a hero to you because you didn't see that that often. And that's what Cicely Tyson was. It was amazing. Like an amazing, amazing career. And just a life well lived, 96 years old with all of the things that she was able to accomplish. And that time will look, man.

I mean, we're still talking about the roles that black women are allowed to play or giving license to play as leads in Hollywood. There needs to be more. But think about if we're having that conversation today in 2021. What must it have been like to be respected, to be taken seriously, to have your art really recognized in the 50s or the 60s or the 70s? You know what I mean? And it's people like her,

Cicely Tyson, that's the reason why we have the Octavia Spencers and the Viola Davis's, you know, the Regina Kings. And you're going to hear way, way, way more eloquent tributes than anything that I could say about it.

Absolutely. There's almost not as, there's not enough you could say about it. So rest and peace, Miss Cicely Tyson. Absolutely. Okay. Rachel, I watched it.

I watched The Bachelor. Man. Okay. I watched The Bachelor. Remember, I told you this was an episode. Where? That was going to really get to you. All right.

I told you to watch it till the end. Right. Because you wanted me to see, you wanted me to see King Winis and his moves. That's what you wanted me to see. You wanted me to see King Winis I and his dance skills. You know he's a weenie. Just go ahead.

say it. I will not. I'm going to be honest with you. He was cruising along this episode. Doing okay. He was cruising along at a 1.5 weanus rating. He was cruising along. It was a weenie and a half. He gets 0.5 weenie for just being himself. And then he gets another 0.5 weenie just for some of the stuff, even though he had a great date with, uh, was there, Michelle? Michelle, Newgirl who came in. New girl who came in. And then I was giving them another 0.5 weanus just because, just because there was a lot of stuff

that was going on in the house. Can't catch a break. So I was going to give him a 1.5 weenis, which is a sparkling weenie score for Matt. Okay. Dancing took us to level 7 Wainersville. Off the scale. Of the scale.

Rachel, am I wrong? You're not. this I said I couldn't even defend Matt James on. Now, you know, I feel like I got to take up for him because, especially in the black community, there aren't too many people

who are rooting for Matt James. They feel like they already know who he is. They've written him off. And I don't want to be that person. But I couldn't back Matt up on this. I mean, I felt like the producers were trolling him on this. But this is what was so bad. It's not just that he did it.

He did it and he thought he killed. He thought he was up there jamming. And let me tell you what it reminded me of. You went to majority white schools for a second, right? Sure. Okay. So did I. You know what it's like when all the white people think that you can kill whatever dance is out there.

Anytime a song comes on, they think that you can hit that. Right. And they cheer you. Go, Van. Go, Rachel, they just to really expect you, and they hype you up, even if you have no rhythm. Why? Because you're black, and they expect you to be able to dance. Right.

I can tell Matt James has been in that circle many of the times. He did not read the room. He really, it was like in another circle, he would be the shit for doing that. Right. On national TV, we weren't giving him a pass. These are the types of things that get you, that gets you put in. Weenie purgatory, which is not

it's not a show to show rating. I didn't know it was a thing. So there's something called Weenie Pergatory. And what that is, is, you know, if you guys, pergatory is between heaven and hell and it's a place that you can stay there

and either go up to heaven or go down to hell. Matt James is in danger of going to Weenie Pergatory, which means that he will no longer be rated. Show by show on his weenessness. He will be

pre-weenied and then have to prove that he deserves to get out of weenie purgatory. We're getting close to that moment. We're not quite there yet. We're getting close to that moment. The only thing that really saves me

from railing on that like more for that dance is? The fact that something so disgusting happened in this episode of The Bachelor that I can't even get over it. Which part? whole escort stuff. Oh, yeah.

Is this really what we're doing? Yeah. It's so, it's so disgusting. Like, was it Anna and Katie, I think, were their names. Or was it Anna and Katie? Katie's been good about not letting this stuff continue. Anna's the one who brought the rumor to- Anna brought the room. Who was it about that? What was the girl's name? Brittany. She was a new girl. Brittany, Brittany. Is that stuff we're doing on TV now? Like, that Anna chick, Anna,

Anna is going to get, you know, five out of five winningies for Anna. Anna's a jacket. Anna's going to get. She doesn't have to disappear. Now, I hope people don't, I mean, like, she's going to get it really bad. She's already getting it, right?

Because this happened on Monday. But I don't know what the show is doing. I've never seen a storyline like this because you will see in the next episode how far this goes or doesn't go without giving it away. But the fact that you let this sit there and they teased it. That's that's my issue. You teased this. We knew it was coming. We didn't

know how it was going to play out, but we knew it was coming. Even when it was teased, I thought, oh, this is going to be like really trivial. It's not going to be a big storyline. It's just going to be like something they say and it, and they dismiss it. But you're messing with this person's life at this point. You know what I mean? Like, and no shame to her if she is an escort, but just, but the way it was presented, it was presented in a negative way. Like she should be shamed for it. Like a bombshell allegation. Like you couldn't have been an escort

and then decided that you wanted to like come on a show and try to find love or something like that. Yeah. A lot of the ways, and it was just, it was framed horribly. It was offensive on many different levels. And then it was like, you was almost part of the drama of the show.

It was. I don't know, man. Rach, I don't know. It's, I don't know what the show. I don't know what type of audience the show is trying to attract. I don't know where they're going with this. I mean, like, it's almost laughable that, like, even she says it. She's like, it sounds so ridiculous.

Like, we had a girl on a podcast the other day, and I was, like, asking her about it. Like, what, were you friends with this person? I was like, were you friends with the escort? Like, almost like, it's so ridiculous to even say. Do you know what I mean? Like, I can't believe that you tease this for weeks. And now it's here. You'll see what happens in the next step.

episode, but yeah, I don't know what the show's got going on right now. I don't know what kind of drama we're trying to dig up. Yeah. Maybe is it maybe that because they can't do enough stuff and go enough places, they have to get a little bit more scuzzier and slimier because that whole thing was really disgusting. I felt so sorry. It's so hard for me to feel sorry for a white woman.

That's so sorry for me to feel sorry. It's hard for me to feel sorry for a white woman. It's weird. It's like, you know, it's like sometimes I'll watch things and I see white women and I'm like, oh, it's so hard. Not going, but, but this, you know, this was very tough, man. I can't imagine what I would do if somebody was making those accusations about me. You know what I would go in a full out panic. You know what I mean?

Like it's, I heard somebody saying, is there a legal issue here? You know, it is slander? On the flip side, you could, if I was, let's say it was the Bachelorette, right? And I was accused of being like a sex worker. Yeah, like you're a contestant. I'm a contestant, right? You know what I would do? What?

After the show was over, I would start that OnlyFans. Why not? So you just play into it? People out here get money. I'm not knocking it. I'm just saying you would play into it. I know a girl said she made $75,000 last month. on only fans.

What does she do? What does she have to do? That's what I want to know. These people who are making big money, what are they doing? You know what you could do? You could put the only fans up there. And then by the time people knew

that you were scamming them and you weren't going to do anything on the only fans, you probably got like a quick come up. Didn't somebody do that? Like Bella Thorne, she made like $2 million dollars or something like that

and didn't do anything. Look, they got Bozeman back with me. You heard. Maybe I should start the only fans for Bowes. Can you do that for dogs? I know people like do it. I think I told you before for feet and stuff like that. Can you do it for pets?

You might be able to do Bose. Bows is handsome. Don't put them out there like that. No, Bowes like that shit. Bose is a ham. Bose we're running around here. No, Bose is getting to, Bose is getting to an age

when he's starting to learn some things about himself. How old is he at this point? I think he's three months. No, no, he's a, like a little dear you is right here is talking about you you're talking about you bozeman yeah all right uh look rachel we have to talk about a story that is not so fun to talk about um chat wheeler yeah yeah so i'm sure you guys saw this chat wheeler uh gigantic

offensive lineman for the steelers was arrest excuse me for the seahawks i'm sorry um was arrested and then released on four hundred thousand dollars bail for a gruesome and Rizzley attack on his girlfriend. It is reported that he had asked his girlfriend to bow for him. And then when she refused to bow his girlfriend, Chad Willard is white, his girlfriend is black. When she refused to buy, Chad then beat the shit out of her. Strangled her, pinned her down, strangled her to the point that she lost consciousness. She regained consciousness.

She woke up. She ran to the bathroom. When she woke up, Chad Wheeler reportedly said to her, oh, so you're still alive. He then apparently, she ran to the bathroom. He then apparently went into the bathroom, broke the lock, went into the bathroom, tried to talk to her as she was, tried to apologize to her. And that's when the cops got there. He refused to cooperate, but then the cops got him or whatever.

If you were looking at the, well, first of all, before we even get into some of the things like that, Like, you read the story. Yeah. It's disappointing. This is, this is, what gets to me is, this happened, what, like a week ago. Yeah. We're just now finding out about it yesterday. I found out yesterday.

It wasn't widely reported. No one was really talking about it. I don't know if you saw Nate Burleson, but he does a good morning football show. And they, it's a three-hour show. They went through the whole show. in the last 30 seconds, he's like, I'm sorry. I know we're talking about the senior bowl. I got to take a hard left.

We've done this whole show. It's all my heart and nobody's talking about it. And so he talked about what Chad Wheeler did and talked about domestic violence and talked about this young woman that was attacked, brutally attacked by him. And my first thought was, why is nobody talking about it? I had thought where you're sending me messages saying, why is this not in the news? Do you think it's not in the news because he's a white man and she's a black woman? why is this not getting more of a headline?

Now it's starting to take flight, but the fact that days had gone by and there had been nothing that was said, we weren't hearing from the team, we weren't hearing from the NFL, we weren't hearing from him until it hit the fan is a huge problem for me.

Why are we not talking about this man? This man is a monster, monster. We had no problem talking about Ray Rice. We had no problem talking about Kareem Hunt, Tyree Kill. And then my other response is, I feel like the NFL needs to be taking a bigger stance when you have a player that has this type of behavior. There needs to be some type of policy where like, you shut it down.

We don't need to see these type of people in the league. They don't represent what the league stands for because I still have a huge problem that Tyree Kiel is in the league. Huge problem. Huge problem. Tyree Kiel had issues in college, well documented, which is why he dropped in the draft, gets picked up, still has issues

within the last two years with not just the mother of his child, but also his actual child. Same person that he hit on in college. And we're just acting like the cheetah is nothing but a great football player and that he doesn't have these problematic issues. I have a huge problem with that.

No, I understand. I get it. So there are a couple of things. Number one, From having worked in that space for a little while, I'll tell you guys something that this happens all the time. What happens all the time? It happens all the time that incidents like this happen and they go away without people knowing about them.

It happens all the time. The three things that you mentioned, Tyree Kill, Ray Rice, and Cream Hunt, they all share a common thread is that there was video and audio evidence. There was a tape in Tyree Kill situation with his baby's mother. And it was video of both Kareem Hunt and then

Ray Rice. I can tell you for a fact if not for the video in those two cases, their footnotes. That's so... I know you're right. I can tell you for a fact.

Even when the people were saying what is the difference between this and Kareem Hump, the difference is a video can go viral and it's just a lot of story I'm not saying that there's not, they're not optics here that are different for the league, you know what I mean?

They're not optics here that, in no way am I meaning to you know, insinuate that there's not a racial component because it's America. You can never be sure when there is one. But I will tell you that the video changes everything. Well, Van, just to your point, Ray Rice,

remember they took, they knew what happened. The team knew what happened with Ray and he was not in trouble. He might have been suspended for a game, too and then when the tape came out. Right. Even like, yeah, he had gone through the, that had been like really adjudicated in a way.

Like we, it had. Indeed, like there was I think if I remember he had agreed to go through like a pre-trial intervention on it and there was some other things. And then we get the video and now they can't stand next to him. The Kareem Hunt situation was something that had happened a little

bit in his, a little bit before. But now the video of the incident came out and after the video of the incident came out, you distance yourself. I mean, if there was a video of Tyreek Hill beating the shit out of his kid or punching his son or whatever, it probably would be different, but even the audio of him talking about it was enough for people to say, hey, that's what the problem is. The word of the woman doesn't mean anything. Her word, her story means nothing without evidence to the NFL or to maybe in the court of public opinion. That's

what the problem is. Why isn't her coming to the police and telling what happened to her, showing markings on her arm, on her neck, on her stomach, because I believe Tyree Kiel kicked her when college. Why isn't that the child having a broken arm? Why isn't that enough? Why does there have to be a phone call or a video for people to start listening and paying attention to these women who are being attacked by these monsters? Money. I know. No, I know you're right. It's just that's what's the sad reality. So Tyreek Hill, the Chiefs won a Super Bowl.

Ray Rice was sort of in a decline, which made the situation. He had more years to play, but sort of declining, which made the situation a little bit easier for them. You know, Kareem Hunt is a dynamic football player. So what you're looking at in all of those situations is if they can find a way, and you're going to get people that you're going to get organizations and say, hey, listen, this is all this guy knows how to do. We are going to give him the opportunity to do this at the highest level and get him the help that he needs and all of that stuff. You're going to hear that kind of stuff too, right? You're going to hear that stuff as well.

But it's like a lot of it, it has to do with money. You know, so you actually, I think I confuse two guys. because I'm thinking back to my TMZ time now. The Cream Hunt situation was in Cleveland, right, during that summer. I was thinking of in college, Joe Mixen went through this same thing. Joe Mixing from Oklahoma, remember? And Joe Mixing was in a situation, you know, and Joe Mixing had gone through the same thing as well.

So in a lot of those situations, the video makes it impossible for the organization to distance themselves from it. The victims will all, be minimized if people allow them to be minimized. So the victims will always be minimized over commerce unless there's something that makes them big. And the video makes them big. Remember, Donald Sterling had been a racist.

Decades. Racist in the NBA for decades. And Barron Davis had talked about it. People had talked about it. It was not at all a secret within NBA circles that Donald Sterling was one of the biggest pieces of shit scumbags ever. The audio of him putting it out there was what the NBA needed to distance themselves from a business relationship with him. Even NBA, the league that we think is, you know, above the others. Yeah.

Above the others. So in this situation with Chad Wheeler, though, I think it's important to talk about the woman here and her situation. and what happened to her and not necessarily what it means in the larger, bigger scheme of things because something that I did see was I saw a lot of people online use

Kreme Hunt. I saw Kreme Hunt trended. RayRaj is trending. Ray Rage was trending. All these guys are trending because, like, what about these guys? Like, do this white boy the same way you did that. Even when you do that, you cover the woman.

And that's what I'm saying. Why are we not focusing on the victim? No, I completely agree with you. No, no, I get it. I get it. And I just said that like you cover her. You do essentially what the NFL does. You minimizes her.

This is her story. This is her life. And she needs the space. Before we start taking it to a larger societal thing, she needs a space to talk and be made whole again, if that's even possible. Who knows if she'll ever be able to trust again? She had a 310 pounds.

six foot seven behemoth, a beast of a human being wailing on her. And she survived it. That's what I'm saying. We got to start respecting these victims, these people who are attacked by these men. It's crazy. Thank goodness she survived it.

Thank goodness that she's alive, you know. And I'll say this. The NFL needs to take a proactive approach to this because whereas these are the high profile incidents that we hear about, sure.

But if the league it's interesting that the NFL is a family league around family values and doesn't want any trouble when someone's kneeling from the flag but when someone beats the shit out of a woman the league then is a league of second chances.

At some point you're going to start I have to ask yourself whether or not the NFL is in a way complicit in some of this. Absolutely. Although, I don't mean complicit in the backside. I mean on the front side. You know that you... You mean, is it not being proactive? Yeah, your league has a perception problem.

Your league has a problem. Your league is... I know that there's a no-contact policy and all that stuff. But it might be pretty good to invest in some mental health. and some training and some ongoing things on a more regular level with these guys. Because to a human being, those men are weapons of mass destruction. But they're not even real. It's a fucking joke.

And it's tough out there. Anyway. All right. I feel like we should do mailback now. You want to do a couple of questions? Yeah, because, you know, it's kind of, it's been. a sort of a downer of a podcast, you know, even though we're celebrating the life of Sicily, Tyson. So you know what?

Let's take a break and let's come back. Let's do mailback. Okay. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need Weather Tech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner. Or a road trip goes sideways.

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Slow burns. Second chances. Chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime. All right, let's do it. Jackson, whatever, bro. Whatever. No one cares. Go ahead and give us mailbag. First question.

Okay. From Veronica Nunez, or Nunez, if Vann and Rachel could plan a bachelor date, bachelor group date, what would the date be? This is good. I'm actually surprised, Van, you haven't already thought about this. You know the way your mind goes, the way you like to wonder. I would take them to the speed zone. You know what that is?

Like the racetrack? You ever been there? We have one in Texas. Well, this is a speed zone. This is a different speed zone. This isn't like a nice speed zone. This is just a cool speed zone. It's a place out, it's off to 60 in City of Industry.

I used to go to City of Industry when I first got here to L.A., and there was this place called the Diamond Platt. there. Sounds like a strip club. It wasn't a strip club, although the strip clubs in like a city of industry are particularly dirty.

But we go to this place called the Diamond Plaza and it had like, there was a Japanese arcade there and there was a lot of like, it was very Asian influenced. It was very Asian influenced, but they're not too far from there.

So I'll take all the girls to the speed zone. All right, we go out, we all go out there to the speed zone. And then we race. We race around. We play speed zone games. and then when you put somebody in a drag race

because they've got the drag race in the speed zone, that's when you find out who people really are. That's what I would do. What about you? That's when you find out who people. It's hard for me to pick this because I lived this on two seasons.

You know what I mean? I've seen some fantastic day. What was the best group date for you then? So one fun one was we did a track and field date. Ooh. And at the time, they were like, and we've brought some friends to help. And I was like, oh my God, please don't.

I don't want my ex to show up. please don't let my ex to show up, right? Like they were like, because that's the kind of stuff the Bachelor does to you. And I thought, oh, God, they're going to do this. No, but my home girl was one of the girls there, Michelle Carter. Allison Felix was on the day. Oh.

And Carl Lewis. When I tell you, Carl Lewis is one of the funniest people. I was not expecting him to be so funny. So we did like a javelin throw. We did like a, and I'm like, oh, you know, I grew up doing track. We had a race. A foot race, I won, of course. We had a long jump, we had shot put.

It was a lot of fun. Just for me, because I love track and field. That was a really fun day to me. The other girls probably wouldn't say that. I don't know if there are rights issues with this, but if I was really being a jerk, this is where I would have Jackson cut in just a little bit of Carl Lewis singing in a national music.

No, you shouldn't. Just a little bit. A man of many talents. A man of many talents. That probably can sang. Jackson, what's the next question? The next question is from Chris Floyd Do you watch TV with the subtitles on?

This is a very heavily debated topic. Absolutely not. I do. Of course you do. I do. Why? Why? Do you know I can't do it with the subtitles off now?

It looks like there's too much space on the screen. It cheats. What happens? That's why I don't like to watch it. One is distracting. I can't handle that. Am I watching? Am I reading?

Am I watching my reading? That's why I don't like to, yes. Sorry. I have to do both. And it will put the sentence up before they have said it. So I kind of know what you're about to say. I don't like that. I don't get it off my screen.

I just want to watch it. I love it. It is the only way that it's done. Number one, when you are so plot-driven, when you are watching every single scene to try to figure out what things mean, a lot of times you miss things, and I'm a notoriously, I'm a notorious rewinder. Oh gosh, I would hate to watch things with you.

If I'm watching something and I feel like I didn't catch while I was supposed to catch, I'll go back. Kalika just goes fucking crazy. I was going to say, how does she even watch a movie or anything with you? That is so annoying. I'll go back. I got to know, I got to know. It's not a homework assignment.

You're supposed to sit back and enjoy it. Don't you tell me the way it's enjoying the movie. I can't believe you watch the subtitles. On everything. Literally the other day I was watching something, I couldn't get the subtitles off. I couldn't figure out. out how to change it.

It was on Apple TV, and I just turned off the TV. I was like, yep, forget it. What if, but what if the subtitles, what if your TV was,

it was a servant, that's what I was watching? See? What if your TV was possessed? Like, what if the subtitles were saying stuff that the characters weren't really saying? And then like, you know what I'm saying?

Like, it'd be like, Rachel, Rachel, come near it to the television. Speaking of possessed. I have an Alexa Echo dot. I just got it.

And I don't use her a lot because copper's, scared of her, but she started speaking in the middle of the night. Does that ever happen to you? No, that's because... I don't know what she said, but I wasn't in the room. I just stopped.

I was like, oh my God. Well, first of all, we got a couple of things. Number one, copper, bitch-ass Nick. Okay, you know what? I'm done. Like that... Don't know, no, no, no, no. What you're not going to do? It's Dr. That's the first thing. We don't know Copper's life for two years.

We don't know what he went through. Right. Normally it makes him tougher. But whatever. Number two is, the Alexa is. He survived these streets. He is. Like Bozeman, who just grew up.

You know what I'm saying? Bozeman is the biggest motherfucker. Bozeman is scared of everything. Like, Bozeman, scared of everything. Like, we're, like, we're walking down the street. You're here. Bozman's like, what was that? I'm like, dog, that was a sparrow.

You're fucking five times in size of that little bird. Like, relax, dog. Like, you're okay. I promise you. But like, relax, bro. So hummingbird. But no, no, that doesn't happen to me. We have Alexa.

The Alexa is talking to you specifically. It's never spoken on its own. No, the Alexa is doing that to you. And tonight, Alexa will probably say more to you. No, stop. All right, last question. Okay. From Johanna Zaldivar.

Would Van and Rachel ever go on MTV's The Challenge? Would love to. No. Damn. Boy, do you watch the show? I think, to me, Alton from the real world. Is he back? No, but he is one of the best athletes that has ever lived. Alton's, I remember Alton.

Alton was amazing. I love the challenge. Hell yeah, I will go on the challenge. I don't, I just don't know how I would be on one of those shows. I've actually thought about this, okay? You know, I'm in the MTV family. Oh, by the way, go sit. ghosted is coming back February 8th, 7 p.m.

Go ahead and start recording it now. We'll be on every night of the week that week for Love Gone Wrong week. Really good episodes. Crazy episodes. Sweet. Really crazy. Anyways, I thought about this since I'm in the family. I don't think I would do well on that.

And I'm an athletic. I think I would be good on the challenges, but the voting people out, the drama. I don't think I would work well in that. Now, I wouldn't do well on it because I got thick. thighs and thick. You know what I mean? Okay, but why is that a problem? Why are thick thighs a problem?

Because like it makes me in like in the post, it makes me immovable and it makes me like and it gives me good but like a lot of the verticality you know, oh so you can't jump?

Well, I used to be able to jump. I was, I could jump pretty easily. But I was, no, I could dunk and do all that stuff pretty easily but I'm a straight up power jumper, straight up, straight down. So there's no gliding. So I get up, boom.

they called me Mr. One Hand, Two Hand. Those are only two ducks I had. I'm seriously, ask me to, like, twist in the air or something like that, it's not happening. Have you ever done the vertical jump on the combine?

What you had? Yeah, 32. Was the best. Not bad. That's, yeah. That's okay. But, like, not an elite athlete, 32.

But, uh, but no. So, seriously, I would go on it, though. I would go on it and look bad. I really would.

I can make that. try to happen for you if you really want to go on the challenge. I'm into it, right, so I can go out there and pull a hammery now. So I got like a hamstring will go. I'm 40 years old. Oh, one thing I do I want to say before we get out of here, before you get to unexpected the hour out of the week. Thanks for everyone who sit in the fucking terrifying video from Carnival.

So funny. It was so good. Yeah, it was even scarier than I actually remembered it. It was stupid. but the one that you guys sent actually had it in the middle that says Carnival 2. I'm telling you, it didn't say that. It was the blood. And then it went to the thing.

I was freaked out. Did you see it? It was freaky, especially like the milk carton. Like, that was a good commercial. That was local. That was a good commercial. I loved it. I thought it was hilarious.

I showed everybody at Extra. I was like, check this out. Check this out. Let me take what happened to my co-host. Yeah. It's so good. I relived it. Love it.

Thank you so much for sending it to us. I had a good laugh. It was. You got an expert out of the week? I don't. I do. Who?

Wall Street Bet's subreddit on Reddit. The Emperor has no clothes, guys. I'm telling you, all of these systems, all right? All right?

All of these guys been playing with this money for so long, that money hasn't been going in your pockets. Fuck them. Fuck them. I like it.

It was a real sort of movement by earth people. Now, things might get crazy. We'll see what happens. I bet you they come with crazy regulations now. But you moved them. And you can do this.

Solidarity of ideas and thoughts, you can move them. Are you in the subreddit? I'm not. Did you join? Okay. If I was. You can creep, though.

Yeah, I creep out. I'll go watch it. All right. That is going to do it for us. Take you think caps off. Do not stop learning. I am Van Lakeley. I'm Rachel Lindsay.

Thank you.