Higher Learning with Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay - Lil Nas X and a Higher Learning Family Meeting

Episode Date: June 29, 2021

Van Lathan and Rachel Lindsay hash out family business following last week’s Mailbag Questions (:25) before breaking down why Lil Nas X gave "the most important performance in BET Awards history" (22:57). Plus, Scottie Pippen calls Phil Jackson a racist (43:07) and Chauncey Billups’s past has us asking questions (52:21). Then it’s time for Van’s Very Serious Question (1:09:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, yo, thought warriors. What is up? Higher learning is on. It is I, Van Lathen. And it's me, Rachel Lindsay. Okay. Before we get to the podcast, we have to have a family meeting. Rachel Tees this.

Oh, no, this is the podcast. What? The family meeting is the podcast? It's a part of it. It's a part of it. Okay. Let's have it, Rach. Family meeting time.

Did you? I already know the answer to this. What? So, no, not even going to go there. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. So we're going to skip the pleasantries. Rachel's mad. She's upset.

And she wants to get off her chest right now. I'm not mad. She are. Mad is a strong word. I am. So if you didn't tune in last week, at the end of last episode, I had to leave. because one of us was on time to the podcast and one of us was 30 minutes late.

So Van decided to take it upon himself to answer the Melbaq questions, which I personally thought was really great because we skipped it, the podcast before. We want to give the people what they want. You guys take the time to submit your questions. So Van was like, I'm going to do this. And I thought, why not?

Never in my wildest dreams did I think that Van would take the opportunity to then answer, for me on the podcast. Now, this is why we're having a family meeting. You know, this came a little sooner than I thought. You know, every once in a while, you got to gather the family up, have a talk, because things seem to be off track.

Right. And as I listened to the mailbag. This was something that you guys did. We never had family meetings. So this is new to me. This is exciting. Yeah, that's why I said, I'm not going to ask because I knew the answer. We had family meetings.

Right. We never had a family meeting. This is great. When the family is messed up, when things aren't right, you got to sit down and you got to air out your grievances so the family can get back to what it is. Right. And right now, the higher learning family is off track. And I tell you why. At this time, if you haven't already, go back and listen to the mailbag.

Now come back. Okay, welcome back. You know, Van, you're a funny guy. You're a funny guy. And I know you know how to be funny. without putting someone down in the process. I know you can do it because you've done it before. It was cute when you said that I didn't,

or what group I would want to see perform or whatever it was that I never did. It's cute that you said the Backstreet Boys. You were wrong, by the way. It's cute that you included my family and you took us all on a road trip down to Orlando. And imagine how we would spend our time at a Backstreet Boys concert. That was cute. Yeah. It was funny.

Then you took a left turn. I don't even know what the second question was. Left? Because we got to talk. We got to talk about the third. What was the third? What was the second? I don't know.

I don't remember the second. Don't remember the second because I'm still on, I'm on the third. The third question was, what's something you wish you knew better? I'm paraphrasing here. What's something you wish you understood or you knew how to do? And for me, for yourself, you chose music. Fair answer. for me you chose the black experience.

Yes. I had a lot of people write me about this. What did they say? A lot of people complain. And a lot of people were upset because they feel like you constantly come at me out the side of your neck. A lot of people do.

About blackness and stuff? About blackness. A lot of people feel like you disrespect me, you disrespect my upbringing, and you disrespect my family. Now, I know how to take it. take a joke. You know what I'm saying? Like, you got to come in me with some new material. Oh, I want to make fun of Rachel's blackness. I've been there. I've done that. That's, that's

something I've experienced my entire life. But what I've, it is. It is. I will write about it in my book. Is it interesting? Because it's still happening to me and I'm 36. Is it interesting? Yeah, I think it's interesting. Why? Because you do it to me. Well, I think it's interesting because that means it's a sore spot. It is a sore spot. Right. Because I, and we've kind of touched on it on this podcast, not necessarily with me, but for some reason, because I grew up in a different

way than you did, that somehow waters down my blackness, which I think is a very unfair assessment to make. We do an entire podcast about the culture, about being black and how all these things intersect with that. But somehow, because I grew up

privilege, or I went to private school, or I talk proper, or because my dad's a federal judge, somehow that waters down my blackness and makes me not appreciate or understand the black experience. Like it's some sort of punishment because my first generation parents who were college students,

first generation college students who worked to give me a certain lifestyle that I have, somehow that separates me from blackness. Like your black is better than my black, which is so unfair because I experience blackness just because of the fact that I'm black.

So just because I grew up in a different way from you, doesn't take away my black experience. And I don't think it's either cute or funny when you make that joke. Okay, so a couple of things here. The first thing is an apology. I'm sorry. If I knew that it was a sore spot,

I wouldn't do it. So I apologize. Number two, both of my parents went to college. Both of my parents... Keep going. Both of my parents went to college. Yeah. Um, my, like I was, I came up in the gift of program with all white people.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Everywhere I went because of the way I talk, because of the way that I act, because of who I was around where I didn't go, what I didn't do. I had people say the same thing. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. The people that I was around, like the teasing that we did to one another, the way that we joked with one another, there's possible way that I would take any of that stuff seriously.

The people that are on the podcast that are hitting you up going that van is disrespecting you and disrespecting your family, I don't have to disrespect anybody or disrespect you or disrespect. I don't have to make jokes about any of it. Rachel, your dad came on the podcast if we're being real and dress me down for an hour for a whole hour. And I made a big joke out of it. There are a lot of people that would have been.

super uncomfortable with being chastised by the parent of their podcast partner on the podcast for as long as that happened. But what did I do? He didn't chastise you the whole time. He absolutely did. Like, he absolutely, to a point to where I was wondering, like, when is he going to stop? Like, I got to go back and listen to it because I don't remember all that. I mean, he definitely came on and talked to you about cursing, but also talked about how

you don't have to do that to get your point across. But at a point, though, it was at a point, though, so this is my thing. So at a point, though, it was a situation to where I'm like, hey, I'm in a situation where I'm on a show that I'm hosting and co-hosting. And I have a guest parent like telling me about myself, all right? Which I told you he wanted to come on and do. Which I gave him the latitude to do. You totally did. So for me, my thing is if.

And this is, and I'm being honest about this. Like, I won't do that anymore. That's a sore spot. But to me, we're being a little sensitive right now. And I really do think, we're being a little sensitive right now. And the reason why is because you know damn well I'm just playing. No, no, no, no. See, this is where, first of all, you can't give me an apology and then tell me that I'm being sensitive.

Van, you always ridicule me on the podcast. And like literally every podcast you make a joke about something that I did that's Cosby Showesque or white. And I never say anything, right? Because it's a joke and I know that. Every pot, literally, every podcast, I'm fine with that. That doesn't bother me. But I think what triggered me was when you talked about the black experience because it's like, okay, I'm not even there. Maybe because I wasn't there to defend myself.

Right. If you had said it like you do normally and you talk and you joke with. me and I'm there to go back at it, but it just lived there without me having to say something. And it is a sore spot for me because I've constantly been told that. But don't say it's the least black thing I've done because you gave a rundown of how you grew up. What I never do to you is question your blackness. You constantly question mine. Whether you're joking or not, you do it. Right. And I wasn't even necessarily coming for an apology. I just is like, this is what I didn't get to do last week, which I would have came at you the same.

way. Well, if you, if you bring it to me like you're bringing it to me, which is fair and like completely, you're going to get an apology because it's not that big of a deal. It's not something that I have to do. It's not something that I will do. But the like the community that I come from, we can fuck with each other. And people and people. Our whole podcast is fucking with each other. So I'm trying to figure out what's the difference now? Because it's not a personal attack like that. And I, and you're right. I am, I am more sensitive to it for sure. And I'm telling you, if I have been on the podcast, it probably would have been a totally different thing for me.

But maybe I'm more defensive too because ever since I've been in the public eye, my blackness has been questioned even more so because I went on a predominantly white show. I went on the bachelor

where there was a white guy there. Then I went on and married a guy who's Latino but white passing. So people constantly just judge me, which you even said when we got, I don't even know if you said it when we got started or right before we started that you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, black experience over the last four years. You know what I mean? Like you're like as if my life started four years ago, which it didn't. So I feel like I'm constantly in the defense of trying to tell people how I live 31 years of my life when they just met me for the last four or five, now five.

So yeah, it's a sore spot for sure. but I guess I just don't like It would have been different Like you said You joked about you wanted to see Prince Who I have seen a concert And you said I wanted to go see the backstreet boys You're basically

You're basically fucking with me then And calling me and like questioning my blackness there That's fine I don't care about that But don't take away from my black experience Maybe it's the word experience Maybe it's the word experience That's getting me

I won't take away from your black experience For adults with Crohn's disease Or ulcerative colitis symptoms every choice matters. Trimphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject trumphia, proper training is required.

Tramphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphia today.

Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfairadio.com. You're here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul predicts. Predict the spread, total points, and even the game winner. Sign up and get a $25 bonus. Offered by Fandual Prediction Markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant, 18 plus. Bonus is non-withdrawable and expires seven days after receipt. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool.

Restrictions apply. See terms at Fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. But I will tell you is like, and we're two different people. I was on TMZ for nine years. Yeah. Nine years. I've been called every Uncle Tom that you could be called. I've been called Uncle Tom's by black people who are so important, who have done so much that it would be breathtaking to most people to have to endure those insults.

The reality is this. For me, and this is a difference. For me, you can fuck with me about anything. Like, if I know that something is a sore spot for somebody, I won't touch it. And to be real with you, the, if I would have known in the past that that was a sore spot for you, I wouldn't do it. Because nothing you've ever done has bothered me. Like people were like, oh, people always say stuff to me when you joke about that. That doesn't bother me.

Like I'm so. And our audience is very sensitive, just to be honest with you. Yes, they are. Our audience is incredibly, I love the thought warriors, but they're incredibly sensitive. And sometimes I'm just fucking around. But if that's not the podcast and that's not the podcast. No, that is the podcast. Don't you now go to a place where you're like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

But I understand boundaries very well. Let me ask you this. Why did you ask me if I was mad? I hadn't said anything to you. Because I knew. I knew that you were. No, why? Because nothing had happened.

No. You said on the text that your feelings were hurt and that we had to have a family meeting. I was actually, no, no, no. The family meeting came after you asked me if I was mad because I was, you were, you texted that. Because I texted you to check on you. My sister had already told me to listen to the podcast.

My sister actually found it funny. My sister already listened to it. She was like, oh, listen to it. Then you said that I was like, I'm flying. I can't listen to it right now. I listen to it and I go, I'm going to say, I said, I listened and I have thoughts. And then I was like, I'm going to tell her.

then when you text me you're like are you mad at me and you called me I was like oh he's concerned and at first I was like at first I was like oh I'm just gonna fuck with him and I was like we gotta have a family meeting then I really started to I went back and I listened to it again and I started to think about it got amped up by the people is what happened I started to fester the start words amped you up is what happened no it to be honest it really is I swear if you I use any other word I think it's just a sore spot for me that's it's just a sore spot okay so this is the thing now um I'm not going to pour salt and wounds.

I don't know how people in Black people in Dallas Act or Black people in Tallahassee Act, they might get super, they might get super upset whenever something brings up. Where I'm from, we Jones about it, baby. We get it in. You know what many times they call me a white boy, but it's different.

So what I'll say is this. But that's not it. I don't think you're getting it. I can call a white girl all the time. You make jokes about me being white or white-ish, white-adjacent on everybody. I've never said anything. I've never said anything.

I don't think I like. No, no, I get it. I get it. It's all good. It's all good. No, I get it. No, I get it. No, seriously, no, it's not all good. It'll be all good when it's actually all good. So, like, it's not all good.

This was particular because you felt like I said you didn't have the black experience. Do people question your blackness now? No. They still do mine. There's the difference. Right. But you know why they don't question my blackness anymore? Why?

And there's a couple of reasons why, only because of the Kanye thing. But it doesn't matter why. They just don't. I know. And I still do. And I'll tell you something else. There are people who, when you say people, I assume you mean the majority of people. There are still people who question my blackness.

Like there are still people that say that even now that because I work on the ringer and that like I work for Bill and all of that stuff, there are people. Joe Budden did that. Joe Budden did that. But, whoa, wait a second. Wait a second down. Wait a second. Don't downplay that. That is a gigantic, large platform where a guy went on his platform and said that I have, that I was whitewashed and that they had took me and put me under Bill Simmons.

Do you know what I did with that? I fucking ignored it. And the reason why I ignored it is because I don't give a fuck what Joe thinks about my blackness. Me and him talked about it. We're cool. I don't give a fuck what Joe thinks about my blackness. I don't give a fuck with the entirety of the Joe Budden podcast audience thinks about my blackness. God bless a massive fan base.

You want to say I'm white, I'm whitewashed, I'm tokenized, whatever. Give a fuck about that. Like in a real way, I don't care. I spent nine years caring about what everybody thought about me. but having said all of that what I'm not going to do ever ever is

a grind salt in a wound about somebody that I care about and I care about you deeply so I won't do that again I won't those jokes don't have to be with which is why your opinion would matter to me and if Joe Budden said it about me it wouldn't now you go at that

because you get them well that's also my personality that's my personality sure but I care about what you think. And this is why you have a family meeting. Right. Welcome to, welcome to a Cosby show-esque family meeting. This is what, this is what you do. Let me tell you what's better than having a family meeting is what we used to do in my family. You know what we used to do? We used to like just not talk about it until it festeres and then your parents get divorced. That's a better, that's like a better option.

So like my parents would like, stuff would happen, you know, me and my dad can't talk on the phone now and that's a better way you know like I'm telling you divorce is the answer so my parents had all of these problems and they would never talk about them and then one day mom was like I gotta move out I was like what I was like oh shit she's really leaving and then that that's better than the family meetings

those suck let me ask you question next time I'll just quit the podcast according to that logic I'm out that would be so hilarious if like they popped up yo yo yo yo Oh, Thought Warriors. What's up? It is I, Van Lathen.

And it's me, Trudy. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. But were there any other things that like, No, we're all good. We're all good. Can I still make fun of the judge? You can make fun of the judge.

You can make fun of the judge. You can make fun of the religion. You can make fun of that, you know, I'll go to a backstreet boys. You can make fun of all of that. Just, you know what the crazy thing is? I've seen the Bastry Boys that I never. saw prints. I've seen the battery boys twice. I've seen both. My answer would have been Michael Jackson to that. Really? You get to see white people and black people at the same time. You get to see

guys. He does both. By the way, we have to litigate the Michael Jackson thing. We talked about it. Now, we got to do a whole podcast on it. I'm seriously, I want to do like a whole podcast on the entire, why are you, why? It's just so. Why are you, why? Why you, why? Why? Why, why, though? Why can't we talk about this? No, we can talk about it. Maybe I'm blowing it up. Maybe it's not as controversial as I think it is.

But I don't know. Ever since I watched the chase. What is it chasing Neverland? Finding Neverland. I've been messed up ever since. I've been messed up. So look, I'm proposing something. I'm proposing that every couple of months we do what's called.

Seriously, a higher learning deep dive where we take one thing. this and we do like an hour, an hour, hour 30 podcast and just give all the people, all the information. Because there's still so much shit that people say, like, when I post something about Michael Jackson and the fact that I don't feel that's like weird listening to Michael, you know, people come back and say like, you know, all of those guys lied. And I got proof that they lied. And I'm like, damn, is that true? And I haven't really done enough research to go in there, but we should do this.

Yeah. Yeah, no, there was something new that I think maybe on a post that you did. Okay, okay, I like this. I like this. There's a documentary. Okay, we'll get into that later. Yes, we will do a deep dive. Michael Jackson, episode one.

So let's, let's, so let's do a couple of, uh, let's, so we do Michael Jackson episode one and then the second one could be your upbringing. My upbringing works. Number two. Okay. I thought you were going to say UFOs. Oh my God. That's like really taking, that's like really taking flight.

Rachel, what are you going to do when the UFOs come to earth? I, literally somebody said this to me. the makeup chair. I'm telling you ignorance is bliss. I don't want to have to worry about this. We got too much other stuff. It's not real to me. Until I see it in my face, it's not real. Let me ask you a question. Do you think that because of Jesus, then that means there can be no aliens? A lot of people have been telling me that lately that because of Jesus, they could be no aliens. What are you basing it off of the Bible? There's a lot of things that are left out of the Bible. Like what? Send the judge up a building right now. Well, we know that there were other books written that weren't included in the

Bible, right? There's 66 books, but there were other books that were written that weren't all included. What's in it? Is there anything in the Bible before we move on to topics? Is there anything in the Bible that you don't think it's true? I got to think about that. Nobody's ever asked me that question. I'm scared. I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. Because somebody, somebody wants. This should be your serious question. Somebody wants, actually, that's actually not a bad one. I had a different one that's really going to, really gonna knock your socks off, but like somebody came to me one time,

they was like, do you believe that Jonah was really inside of a well? Wait, is this because of the recent well story? Yeah. Like, do you think that Jonah was really inside of a well? And I was like, I don't know, because the pictures used to have him like sitting at a desk with the lamp on. With a lamp on writing.

See, this is the thing. Wait a second. Wait a second. This is the thing. This is the thing. So I can't believe you just said that. Because this is the thing. Wait a minute.

Because the dude was like, wait a second, wait a second. My cousin hit me, my cousin goes. He said, because it's not like they showed him in the belly of the whale getting like fucked up by the well's stomach asses or nothing. My brother was like, he was in that bitch and he had a recliner. And he had light. Like he had set it up all. It's like, there's no way that it happened like that.

And because I don't want to go against the Bible. I have to be like, yo, I got to go. I got to go. Like, but seriously. Jonah like, Jonah like made a couple of trips inside of the well. Hold on. Let me find a picture of Jonah inside the well. Let me find a picture of Jonah inside the well.

Jonah in the well. Jonah in the well. Let me see. Hold on. Images. Well, it's a couple of images in here of Jonah. Is he sitting at a desk? It's a couple of images.

It's a couple of images. here of Jonah, like not having it made. But it's a couple. There's one in here where he got, like, he got a candle on inside the well. See what I'm saying? See? See? Like, you got a candle inside the well.

And the well looks thrilled to have Jonah in there, too, by the way, which I don't think would happen. Anyway, all right. Let's take a break. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need weather tech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a car car.

Liner or road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Trimphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion. from the start. Tramphia is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject tremphia, proper training is required. Tremfaya is a prescription medicine

used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections, or lower ability to fight them and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimfaya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit Trimfair radio.com.

Okay, so, Lil Nas X is back. Yes, he is. he's back rachel uh last night there were the beatty awards we were taping this on the monday this will be out on the tuesday uh little nizex was at the bt awards this is bt and um he did call me by your name now i was actually happy about this performance when i first saw her for one reason you know i remember the time no oh that's a good because yeah he did bring that back no but we're doing a lot of michael jackson stuff just won't let you know like some of our thought warriors are going to be mad.

So a part of my life. It's hard to let that go. We've already sent them on an emotional journey throughout the first portion of the podcast and now we're triggering them again. No, I was happy because Satan wasn't up there. I was like, I just knew that I was going to be all triggered dealing with the devil and all of that stuff.

I was really happy that Satan wasn't up there. But anyway, he did the performance, great performance. Songs were sketching. And then at the end, he kissed a mane he he more than they made out it was a steamy kiss kissed the mane on his lips

your thoughts I think good for him listen little non-ex is out here living the life that he wants to live and I love that unapologetically being himself I had the chance to interview him on the carpet last night I was out there at the BET Awards it was hot

it was blazing I was miserable, but I enjoyed being out there for culture's biggest night. You left yourself open for one. What did I say? What did I say? I was melting?

No, you said you were miserable at the BET Awards. You left yourself open for one. I'm just saying, I didn't, I didn't take it. I won't do it. I'm just going to let you know. No, no, no. You left yourself open for one. The only way that would suck is if you were like,

you had no business being there. They needed somebody who could understand the experience. Like that's the kind of stuff. stuff I'm talking about. That's good. Look, that's a good one. Look at you. That's a good one.

I've heard it all. I've heard it all. It's like forehead jokes. Oh, Lil Nizek. So he walked the carpet twice. He did an outfit change and I loved it. Very dramatic. You know what I mean?

Very much so like look at me because he is out here being himself in a way that he's never been able to be before. I loved it. I love that he was dancing. I don't know if we've really seen. him dance like that before. He could get it too. He did a good job.

Yeah. Remember the Times, the Michael Jackson tribute. And then he said, I'm going to let y'all see how I do it. So I think two things here. I think one thing and then I have a question.

And since I've started the podcast in the problematic basket, I'm just going to stay there. So the first thing is this. I think that was the most important performance in BET Awards history. Wow. Okay.

Now, the BET Awards has had some really important performances. One that comes to mind is Beyonce announcing to the world that she was a solo artist, which set forth a pop career that, you know, or a pop R&B career that is going to go down one of the all-time grades. There's been a lot of moments on the BET Awards stage that meant a lot to a lot of people, you know? Obviously, after Michael died, there were some amazing performances. that year.

But with the history of BET, sometimes in the past, BET had been accused of not having enough programming or not leaning into the diversity that exists in a black community in terms of our LGBTQ community. Did you say PT? I might have said PT.

LGPT. Because last time you said like XYZ in the middle of it as well. LGBTQ plus community. BT has not. sometimes they've been accused of not giving a big enough platform or highlighting them. Now some things are happening different. Now there's some shows over there

and there's definitely been a lot of progress in that area. But on its flagship moment to prominently feature Little Nas X in that way was very, very important. It to me was symbolic and it was BET finally not finally.

I want to say finally, but BET making a very intentional decision to put their arms around the community and say, hey. And the ovation that it got from the crowd, it was just a very, very affirming moment. Yeah. And I thought for that reason,

in terms of moving a step forward, moving two steps forward, three steps forward, it was the most important performance that I've actually ever seen on that stage for that reason. Yeah. Yeah, when I hear you say it that way, I agree with you. number two.

Uh-oh. And I'm asking this question with all, with vulnerability, with honesty, with everything. How do I get over the slight uncomfortability that I feel at seeing two men kiss? Well, that's not a question I can answer. What? The fact that I look at it and a part of my body still. tenses up is it brings me

a lot of shame. I think can I ask you, is it because they were black? No, it's it's not because they're black, it's because something still says weird.

Can I just say that that's an honest thing, very honest for you to say that a lot of people would not admit to? And I think the reason is is because it's not normalized yet. Sure, being gay is is way more accepted than it was decades ago, but seeing relationships play out in front of us and on television and in pop culture between men. Women, it is there. It's more normalized. But for men, it's not. And so I think there comes a time when when things have become more normalized in our society that at a time they weren't,

like, you know, women kissing or just a relationship between two people from the community or even sex, right? There was a time when sex was taboo and it made people clutch their pearls because they had not seen it that way in such immersed in our pop culture. But, and I think that that's why it is that for you because we don't see that every day. You don't see men kissing on television every day. So that's probably why you have that reaction because for so long, and especially in our community, we've been told that that's not right.

We've been told that that's not normal. And I know that's not what you believe, but when that's been ingrained in your subconscious or whatever for such a long time, when you see it, I do think it's very honest for you to say that that's the reaction that you have. And it explains why we need to see more of it

to normalize it. So the next generation doesn't have that same type of reaction. So when I first got out to L.A., I saw something that I had never really seen before with, you know, sharing my community with my gay brothers and my lesbian sisters. I saw, and this was, this was very important. I saw something, I saw lovingness between same-sex couples. So I think one of the main things that sort of gets in the way of people's understanding of these things is that, they think that this is just about sex.

I think this is just about who you want to fuck, right? Straight people want to fuck the opposite sex, gay people want to fuck the same sex. Some people want to fuck everybody. It's just about sex. So when it's just about sex,

it becomes very sort of primal and debased almost, and it becomes, it's something that's easy to make lustful and lewd and tawdry in a way. you make any relationship just about sex, especially one that you think is taboo. But I remember,

and this is going to sound so bad, but I remember being at a function with one of my friends and his boyfriend came around and just like put his hand on the back of his neck and was just like rubbing the back of his neck. This was like 2006 or seven and was just rubbing the back of his neck as he was talking. And it dawned on me.

Like at 26, I was like, these guys are in love. Mm-hmm. Like it doesn't, like these guys are, this is much deeper than I had been led to believe that it is. Like these guys, like, they love to see one another when somebody gets off a plane from a long trip.

They argue about bills that they share. They're like us. I mean, this sounds so crazy, but I was like, yeah, like, and then I was like, well, damn. That's because you're programmed to think of certain. Like, I thought that two guys cruised around and, and they, the only other time I'd actually seen this was when Peders-O-Morra got married on the real world season two, you know. And I remember, wow, like marriage or union.

And it's not something that anybody was hiding because anytime you make somebody hide something, like, it seems a little bit more illicit. Anytime somebody hide something, like Kalika used to get mad about me and porn. She used to be like, just watch the porn. It was like, why? Because when you hide the porn, it makes me feel like there's something to hide. You know what I'm saying? So I don't know. But despite all of that, at 41 years old, I watched the kiss and then just something goes,

not that I go, ew, or nasty or I change the channel, but something tenses up like two guys kissing, two guys kissing. You're not used to it. Still, still. You're not used to it. But I think you sharing what you just shared, somebody may be feeling the same way that you are and it may help them, right?

They're not any different from us just because they love in a way that's different from you. Yeah, yeah. Well, they love in the same way, just with different parts. Yes, I'm sorry, you know what I mean. I mean, like they don't have the same type of relationship that you have is what I meant.

Not like, I mean like same sex versus heterosexual. I don't know. This is sounding bad. I mean, you're sounding like Mike Pence is what it sounding like. No. You all know my heart. Actually, we sound like two Mike.

We sound like two Mike pincers right now. No, we don't. We're like, we're going to change you. We're going to change. I sat there like this. I sit there like this. I didn't tense. I didn't tense, man.

You home of pulmic bastard. All right. Not so good news out of the state of Arkansas. We talked a little bit about something that had gone down with the police encounter in Arkansas. A couple of weeks ago where a state trooper had used the pit maneuver on a woman who turned out to be pregnant and turned her car over in Arkansas. Something else, that woman was able to survive and her baby survived as well. We're going to bring updates on that case pretty soon. But something happened that was unfortunately a little bit more lethal.

There was a police involved shooting in Arkansas. And this one is bad. Hunter Britain. It was a 17-year-old. old man who 17 year old boy yeah 17 year old kid was pulled over for traffic stop not too long ago around 3 a.m. He was at a local auto shop. All right. Now Hunter was had been all night long. He had been working on his car and trying to get his transmission to fix so that he could get up and go to work in the morning. Apparently he was still having trouble with his transmission. He could not get his car to stop. rolling back, according to somebody who was there with Hunter in the driver's seat. He got out and tried to put something behind the car to stop it from rolling back.

And when he did that, according to somebody at the scene, Hunter was shot and he is now dead. Now, authorities have said that Hunter, they got a call that Hunter was in the woods shooting at cops before this. as far we have no confirmation whether or not that's true Hunter's uncle said that that definitely was not true that he had been up all night working on his car trying to get his car ready so he'd go to work in the morning here's an interesting thing about the story that's not so much interesting Hunter's white

right Hunter's a white kid okay and so because he's white it automatically sort of divorces one of the main sort of themes that we've seen in these police shootings, which is white officer, black kid, or even black officer, black kid, or whatever. And it puts the onus here squarely on the issue of policing. And it's interesting that these two incidents in Arkansas that have happened, both to Hunter and to the lady who had her car flipped, were both, these were both white people. So it speaks more to a culture of policing than it does anything specifically racial.

Does the fact that he's white change anything for you? How do you analyze this situation that's sort of just starting? There's a call right now for justice for Hunter. No, I don't, it doesn't change anything to me because the whole one of the things that we've been talking about, yes, we've been talking about there being an issue of an attack on black and brown people. But at the same time, the other part of it is the attack is because of the police and there needs to be police reform. I found it interesting that the same things that they were asking for in justice for Hunter are the same things that we ask for when we're asking for police reform. They're saying that there needs to be a change. They're asking the same questions. Why couldn't he have done this?

Why didn't he, you know, wait? Why didn't he like all these questions? And it doesn't matter that Hunter's White. It's the fact that this police needed better training. That's another thing that they're saying there needs to be some type of reform. These people who are calling for justice for Hunter are also saying, this is happening all over the country. They're acknowledging it. There is a problem within our country when it comes to police.

And it just shows the need for it, the need for reform. Doesn't change anything for me. So the uncle's name... It adds to it, to be honest. The uncle's name is Jesse. And Jesse said that he shut down the officer's assertion that Hunter was shooting at police. There's an investigation that's going on right

now. Jesse, like I said, that the hunter was up all night trying to fix his truck transmission. They asked them what justice is, and Jesse says, justice looks like this officer getting what's coming to them, just like any one of us would if we shot and killed somebody. Harley Britton, who is Hunter's other uncle, said that the incident shows a need for law enforcement reform. This is happening all over the country,

and this is happening too close to home for us. If he felt like he was in danger, he's got a taser on his hip, he didn't reach for that, he reached for his gun, and shot a 17-year-old. boy in cold blood in his throat is apparently where a hunter was shot.

So look I think when we talk about the police that we use race as a very very specific structure here that we're up against and you know that actually is apt in most of these situations

when you look at the rate in which black people are arrested detained pulled over whatever the reason why these incidents go bad more is because we're being stopped, profiled, and targeted more.

That is a separate issue from the substandard and incompetent policing that we're getting all over the country. And I don't understand how as an American you can't be aghast

at the rate in which we're seeing this happen. At the prevalence of the police, people that we've bestowed with almost godlike power in society, they tell you to stop, you gotta stop. They tell you to stand, you gotta stand.

They tell you pull over, you gotta pull over. Hands up, spread them. Whatever you do, and they just seem to be accidental terrorists all over the country. It's not fucking with y'all? Yeah. I don't know what to say.

Do you think that this kid being white is going to make this go any different of a way? Like what, how does this? No, it's not going to make it because it's got to be, and I can't remember if we talked about this on the podcast, it's got to be somebody, you know, with a, it's got to be somebody white, the child of somebody who's white with power,

whether whose parent has power or money or, you know what I mean? Somebody who's like strongly against police reform. It's got to be somebody. like that where it's got a hit home. Because even here, they tried to lie on Hunter. They tried to say that he was in the woods, like shooting at police officers at three in the morning, as if there are that many police officers driving by. I mean, it's absolutely ridiculous.

I think, though, that we didn't talk about this last week, but it shows that the answer is not putting out more police officers. The answer isn't more cops. And we didn't talk about this last week with Joe Biden and what, I don't know if he proposed it or if he already implemented it. But that's not the answer here. It's just not. What is the answer? I mean, isn't that a question that we're asking all the time every single time we have to discuss one of these shootings?

I don't know. Man, look, they're starting to ask a lot of us as citizens. It's just starting to start, it's becoming harder. Look, I'm not going to go on a whole deal. you know but fuck man it's 17 years old 17 years old and I want to see just as much energy

for this one as there's been for all the rest of them I want to see people up in arms there in Arkansas if we have to get some people down there to light a fire then we'll go down there we'll light a fire because the reality is race is a component in everything that happens in America but the most

Dangerous race in America right now is clearly blue. Clearly blue. So, you know, we'll give you updates on this as it happens. It's developing. It's only been a couple of days out, three, four days since all of this kind of came to the forefront. So as we know more, you know, we'll talk about it a little bit more. But that's two incidents involving, you know, the,

Arkansas, the police in the state of Arkansas in a short period of time right there. Like, the fuck about it just being there. But we have to get a handle on this situation. This is getting crazy. It's getting wild. Is that where the police officer pushed over the car?

That's the same place. Okay. Yeah, same place. Although I think he was a statey. I think that that guy was a state trooper. All right. Oh, Scotty Pippen. Did you see this?

What's happened to Scotty? I don't know. I'm concerned about Scottie Pippin. Right? So there are thought words out there who might not know who Scottie Pippin is, which is interesting. Scottie Pippin is one of the whatever you want to hear, whatever you believe. Scotty's one of the greatest fucking basketball players of all time. I know people don't want to think that.

Are you one of these people that's down on Scotty Pippin? No. You're not. There's some people that say... I don't think there would have been six championships without Scotty Pippin. Scotty Pippin was very crucial to me. Michael Jordan being, I'm not taking away for Michael Jordan, but I'm just saying he was right there with him. Let me ask you a question. Let's say that Scotty Pippen would have never joined Michael

Jordan on the Bulls. Do you think that Michael Jordan would have won championships? He would have won championships. He would not have won six. Six. Scotty was there for all of Jordan's six championships. The best wing defender in the history of the game, in my opinion, a complete stat filler. And didn't Jordan say that? In the last dance, did Jordan not co-sign that? I don't know. That thought? Okay, I'm making that part up. Maybe he did, but in the last dance,

everything worth note that Michael Jordan said was about himself. Michael, yo, I can see how Michael got it done. Nobody believes in Michael Jordan more than Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan is fucking great. All right. So, you know, Sky Pippin, seven-time All-Star, one of the 50-grade's NBA players of all-time, six-time champion. He talked about a very, very, very big.

very infamous moment. So Michael Jordan retired two years to go play baseball. Most people, most casual fans know this. During that time, the Bulls were still good. It was actually more like a year and a half. The Bulls were still good. As a matter of fact, there was only one full season that Michael was actually gone. And in that full season, the Bulls managed to still win 55 games.

55 games. They were an elite NBA team and made it to the second round of the playoffs where they were eliminated in seven games, I think, against the New York. York Knicks, if I remember. Well, in one of the series that they played in that season, there was a last second shot. And Phil Jackson drew that last second shot up for a guy named Tony Kookech, who is one of the best six men of all time in basketball, and not for Scotty Pippen, who I think was like third

or fourth in MVP voting that year. So we all thought, so, by the way, what's worse is that Tony came in and drilled the shot. Phil knew what he was doing. Phil knew what he was doing. Coach Phil Jackson was the coach of the team, and he drew the shot up for Tony Cootch and not for Scotty Pippen.

Now, Scotty refused to come in the game after he didn't get the shot. Tony got the shot, he hit the shot. Mind you, there were 1.8 seconds left. It's not like he set out a whole quarter or something. He didn't set out a whole quarter, 1.8 seconds. Most people thought that, for whatever reason, Phil thought that Tony was in his bag a little bit better or whatever.

Scotty just said, that Phil Jackson is a fucking racist. Scott, like, what, Scottie Pippin, wait a second. Hold on. Scottie Pippen, run the sound, man.

Run the, run the sound. Listen to this, guys, run the sound. But have you talked to Phil about this? Because by saying a racial move, then you're,

you're calling Phil a racist. I don't got a problem with that. Do you think Phil was or is? Oh, yeah. I mean, do you remember Phil Jackson left the Lakers, wrote a book on Kobe Bryant and then came back and coached him? I mean, who would do that? You named someone in professional sports that would do that.

Okay. He goes on to not at all back off the assertion that Phil Jackson, Hall of Fame coach, was or is a racist. Now, here's the thing. Scotty Pippin offered absolutely zero evidence that's it zero evidence

that supports that claim racism is not the same as favoritism and maybe he favored Tony Koo-coach over you for that last second play which clearly was the correct decision we don't know if Scottie would have made it or not but Tony did and they moved on.

The fact that he called him, I was waiting for something else. Like, you brought this to my attention. When I saw the clip, I thought, okay, okay, he's going to offer some sort of evidence. When you make that type of accusation against someone that is damaging of their reputation,

we know Phil Jackson to be one way. To call him a racist, and, I mean, coming from Scotty Pippen, too. So it's tough, right? Because he offered no evidence. Nobody else has said anything close. that I know of that even comes close

to him being any sort of way I'm not sure what the book he wrote on about Kobe I don't know what he's referencing I do know did he say something like Phil Jackson wrote a book after his

first stint with the Lakers was over and he talked about the fact that he thought Kobe was uncoachable he said I can't coach this kid it was very famous when it happened back in the day I remember I was in my early 20s and it was a big deal and then him and Cole passed it up

he came back and coached the team it's great Which a lot of people have talked about playing with Kobe and how he is. So that's not even anything that was a one-off. Like, he was the only one who said it. But the reason I say that he didn't offer any evidence on one hand. And nobody's ever said anything. So it's like, okay, where's this coming from?

But on the other hand, he played under Phil Jackson for so many years. So a part of me is like, does he know something that we don't know? Have people been too afraid because he's Phil Jackson, legendary coach? to say anything. I'm serious. Part of me goes, huh. Yo.

Yo. And the sad thing is he looks crazy saying it too. Scotty. He looks crazy. We got to check on Scotty Pippen. We got to check on Scottie Pippen. I'm serious. All the shit that Scottie Pippen was saying before about Kevin Durant and all of these

guys and all of that stuff. That's fine. Those are his basketball opinions. Scotty looked disheveled. He got that liquor with him wherever he go. It is a little. like, it's like he got that liquor bottle. We got a check on Scotty, man.

By the way, I'm not saying that Phil Jackson, to your point, I'm not saying that it's 100% that Phil Jackson wasn't a racist. What I'm saying is we have never heard that until now. And I think it is fucking horribly irresponsible and lame and all the way fucked up to make that type of accusation against somebody and get, no evidence to support it. Right. Just kept saying the same thing over and over again.

Two things. One, as you pointed out, he does have a new liquor and he's selling a book. So I don't know if this is something to get, as TD, TD on our team pointed out to us, I don't know if this is him trying to garner attention because he's got some things that he's trying to sell. But my thing is, will we hear back from Phil Jackson? Will Phil Jackson respond to this? Do you think he's got to respond?

think he will. He's got to respond. I don't think he's got to respond. Phil can't be out here in these streets having people think he calls himself the Zen master. Like master, master or what? Like all of this time he was telling us. So like it.

So my thing, my thing is we have to be careful of people who do this. If this is some Kanye-esque shit, you got product to sell and you out here making outrageous claims. If this is true. Scotty Pippen got to come with some real evidence and tell some real stories that give us some insight into why Phil Jackson is a racist. Maybe it's in the new book.

Maybe it's in the new book coming out and this was a teaser. Maybe it is, but it better be because it's disgusting to throw those terms around and weaponize that type of stuff just for your own personal game, right? For your own personal shine. The reality, I've never heard that.

No, even Dan Patrick tried to give him an out. And he was like, I'm okay with that. Yeah, I'm okay with it. The book he wrote about Kobe, him and Kobe got to be fine. Him and Shaq had like a father in some relationship.

Michael Jordan didn't want to come back without Phil Jackson. I'm not saying that any of these things didn't mean that Phil Jackson is not a racist. I'm just saying if he was a racist, he hid that shit better than fucking wears Waldo. Like he was the best

at high it did if he was in fact of racist. His definition was favoritism. Listen, do you think this is going to affect Scottie Pippen? on ESPN? Is he still on ESPN? I think he still comes on the jump. Oh, still on the jump.

I mean, probably not. They probably want him now, want them even more. ESPN's got some issues. Speaking of ESPN, there's something very important I want to discuss because we've got to get off the Scotty thing, but something I want to discuss. Did you see what happened this weekend

with Chauncey Billups? Van, I, yes, because I was shocked because I had never heard any of this before. Thought Warrior community I want your help here because this is in the arena of sports but it's something that really fucking matters

in a lot of different ways Chauncey Billups is an assistant coach right now with the LA Clippers he is a former finals MVP with the Detroit Pistons one of the defining point guards of his generation I would say Mr. Bickshot they called him

He also worked for ESPN for some years before transitioning to being a coach. It was just recently announced that Chauncey Billups is getting the head coaching job in Portland. Okay. Congratulations, I guess, are in order for Chauncey Bill. She's getting the head coaching job in Portland. There was an outcry over this because upon learning that he was getting the job in Portland, fans of the Portland Trailblazers brought to light something that I had never heard of.

Yeah. Which was the fact that in 1997, Chauncey Billups, along with his teammate, at that time, a guy named Ron Mercer, were accused of rape by a woman who says that they, she was at a comedy club with them, left with them, ended up in the condo of one of their teammates,

a guy named Antoine Walker, who played for this other. at that point, and that she was forced to give oral sex to them and do other sexual acts at some point she blacked out. She woke up next to Antoine Walker's roommate in a bed, condoms everywhere, and she was had pain in her throat and in other places feeling like she had been violated. She was taken to the hospital. Sperm was collected.

Criminal charges were never filed against Chauncey Billups and Ron Mercer, who both did ever having gone to Antoine Walker's apartment. He did say... And I just also add that the medical report did coincide with her story, with bruising. There were bruises on her that showed that she had been dragged across the floor with rug burns. So it went along with everything that she was saying that happened.

Yeah. It's a disgusting situation. A tragic situation. Both Billups and Mercer. deny going to Anton Walker's apartment. They say that they were with her. She did perform oral sex on them. Once in the car, I think maybe once at Chauncey Billups' apartment,

is what Ron Mercer said. And then after that, they don't know what happened to her or how she got to Antoine Walker's apartment and that they were never there. Okay. They said everything that happened with her was consensual. This happened in 1997. Choncy Billets went on to have a very impressive

Hall of Fame level NBA career being Alice with ESPN and now that he is a coach, this is coming to light. I'm going to make you the GM of the Portland Trailblazers based upon what you know right now. Would you be comfortable with having Chonsie Billups as your head coach? Absolutely not.

I mean, let's just not even add to Let's add to the fact that he has almost zero coaching experience, right? I'm not taking away from who he is as a basketball player. He played, what, almost 17 years in the league. He just started coaching in the fall of last year. Now you add that there is this history of something happened, right? He wasn't criminally charged, but let's also add that there was a civil suit and he did settle with her.

Settled the civil suit out of court, yes. He saddled something, right? So there's something there just because criminal charges weren't brought. There was a civil suit file. That's enough for me to not want this person to be representative of my team, of my franchise. To be, when you're a coach, you're a leader and you're setting an example, not just for the players that you coach, but for young boys and girls who are looking up to you as the leader of their favorite team. And if this, when you put somebody in that place and just like neither I nor you had ever heard about this with Chauncey Billups, when you, with him being the coach, this is something that I believe would also just get buried and we won't talk about it anymore. And these people who look up to him will never know that this is something that was attached to his name and his legacy. There are so many other options for head coach. It's not like they only had Chauncey Billups as an option. And he doesn't even have coaching experience, okay?

I just find it appalling that this was something that they knew about, that there was a public outcry from fans of Portland, of the Portland Trailblazers, from people in the city of Portland, yet they still chose to ignore that and make him their head coach. And to me, it shows not just that the Portland Trailblazers, but also the NBA has made it very clear that it's fine to commit acts of violence or to have these type of allegations,

whatever may be, I'm only saying allegations because he wasn't criminally charged, against a coach or a player, and we can ignore it, and it's fine. It's totally fine to disrespect women where their claims, this is the message I feel like they're sending out, that their claims that the things that happen to them aren't taken seriously.

That's the message that they're sending right now. So there are a couple of things that compound this and make it a little worse. Number one is that Portland went out of its way to let everybody know that they were considering hiring a coach named Becky Hammond, who is an assistant coach with the, San Antonio Spurs and has been an assistant coach with them for a little while and has a very,

very stellar reputation around league circles for what a great basketball mind she is. People thought that this might be the year that Becky Hammond would get a shot to be in the head coaching job. Now, I personally don't want Becky Hammond to leave San Antonio. I want her to take over for Greg Popovich after he leaves. I think that's the perfect situation. Some people say that's the move. That's the perfect situation for her, but I'm sure she would jump at the opportunity to be an NBA head coach no matter what, unless there's some sort of deal in place there for her to

stay and and be the coach of the San Antonio Spurs. Another situation is that there was a coach before this that they considered up there in Portland, a guy by the name of Jason Kidd.

Jason Kidd played guilty spousal abuse back in the day. So, he was eventually hired by the Dallas Mavericks. Today. Yeah. So he was hired by the Dallas Maver's.

So Jason Kidd's situation is a little bit less ambiguous than a Chauncey Bill's disease. Okay. He was hired. There is a history of violence against women. And you have up in Portland another guy who seemingly has a history of violence against women. And they'll tell you why the reason why I say seemingly. I legitimately don't know what you're supposed to do. here.

Huh. I don't, this is one why I don't know what you're supposed to do. Why? Because, because I'll tell you why. I tell you why.

It's not lost on me that there are situations like Brian Banks. There are situations like Janarlo Wilson. There are situations where things didn't happen, right? And they are very small. When I say very small, I mean about

2% of the time, a woman says she was sexually assaulted and she's actually not sexually assaulted. Very, very low. The numbers are out there. If you have an open mind and an open heart, you can go get him. It doesn't happen. So my thing is, if you're an organization and you don't want to hire Trancy Billups because of his proximity to what happened in 1997, I have absolutely no problem with that.

No problem. No problem with an organization. saying, hey, that's too much for us. We don't want to be involved in that. That's fine. The fact that that situation would be automatically disqualifying is a little harder for me because he's not guilty of anything. There's an allegation out there.

When I say he's not guilty of anything, I'm not saying what I think. You mean like in this court system. Yeah, I'm saying that like there's an allegation out there, an allegation that for all intents and purposes was adjudicated. Like it... No, it wasn't adjudicated because he was never charged.

Well, the fact that he was never charged means that now, de facto, it was adjudicated because... Well, there's a civil suit, which means, which the burden of proof is a lot less, preponderance of the evidence, right? So 51%

he settled that case. Right. He didn't take his chances in court, which he could have. Whether that was from monetary reasons, whether it's because he did it, he's settled. And so it always raises an eyebrow. It always raises an eyebrow when you settle.

Maybe it's to avoid the publicity. I don't know why he's settled. I know, like, but remember now, he settled, Kobe settled, Michael Jackson settled. There have been a lot of people who've settled. There's a lot of people who think those people were guilty. And I'm not saying that they weren't, but what I'm telling you is that,

just as we don't know the reason right right well look the reason could have been that they don't want their dirty laundry being out there and they don't want to be they don't want to be found guilty but what I'm saying is he was a rookie he was a rookie when that happened right what I'm saying is those people were allowed to continue to work that happened in 1997 he went on to play for 17 more years right and worked for ESPN which I understand which I understand which I'm saying is Because all of that to me is the part to where I go, all right, so it was cool enough for him to be the NBA finals MVP. It was cool enough for him to work for Disney. But now that he wants to be the coach of the team, this is disqualifying.

And I'm not saying that it shouldn't be. I'm just saying that there is a point to where I'm wondering, like, what is the standard here? Is the standard an allegation and the settlement means you did it? That's it. It's over. And anything that you're trying to progress forward in your life, you can't do it. Well, this is what I think. It's always been wrong to answer your question when you're like it was okay for him to play this many years in the league, to be MVP, to work for ESPN.

It was always wrong. But we're living in a time now where we don't look over those wrongs and we recognize them like we should have been doing years ago, right? after the Me Too movement happened. Now people aren't afraid to stand up and speak out and companies and organizations are saying, hey, you know what, we've gotten this wrong before and we're trying to get it right now. It should have been an issue back then. It wasn't. Or, you know what I'm saying?

So I think now to answer your question when it's like what, you know, you didn't say why is this coming up, but like it, why is it an issue now? Well, it should have always been an issue. Just now we're talking about it in a different way. word up. Look, uh, never knew that about Chansy. It was incredibly disappointing to learn because he has such a sterling reputation as a guy

around NBA circles. Um, and another thing about it that's just sad is that just how many guys just got involved in stuff like this? It seems like fucking everybody's a fucking rapist, alleged rapist, fucking abuser, toucher. It's just like,

it's like, it's like, it's almost like it's three dudes out there that ain't never raped nobody. Have you seen promising young woman? Yes. Reminds you that. Yeah. Right? Right. It's just wow.

Almost to the point to where you just like want to fucking throw your hands up. But when I first came out, when I first came out, when I first read it, I actually was when I first came out. When I first read it, I was like,

I actually felt in a way, I was like, yo, man. Like after all of this year, they're bringing this up now. And then you read the account, and the account is pretty bad. But I still don't know what you do. Well, I wouldn't have any. Well, if you're Portland, you hire him and keep it moving. I can't say that I have a problem with them hiring him.

Okay. Well, I do because there were other options. He's not even qualified. Right. And I can't say that I have a problem with them, with somebody not hiring them. So you're in the middle. You're indifferent.

I'm not indifferent. I just don't think that I have, there's nothing, I like to be intellectually certain of things as much as possible if I'm going to have like a clear stand on them. And me taking the stand to say if you were in any way ever involved

in anything that has to do with any sexual assault, like you're dead to me. Well, it's not even that. Because like this, this case right here is in 1997. Yo, this is literally less than a handful of years after the Central Park 5. And it's like, and you just, as much as we're going to like kind of, and not you, it's very like, it's, I understand. But as much as we're going to grandstand, it's just not always that cut and dry in these situations. It's not.

But I guess I would feel you if he didn't have the career that he's had and they had other options for a coach. And I think that there's certain questions that you're asked. Like for a bar exam, like there's certain questions that were asked, like moral questions that you have to be asked before you can not necessarily take the bar, but whether your license is granted to you. And so I think those type of questions also come with this type of job because of what you represent in this. this position as the leader of this team of this franchise. I just don't feel the same way that you do because there are other options and because of the career that Chauncey has had. Right.

And the fact that your proximity is not qualified. The proximity to something like that. I just got to keep saying it. The proximity to something like that is enough for it to be disqualifying. I completely get that. But also, the ripple effects of it were crazy because it was rumored that this guy was the guy that Damian Lillard wanted. Oh, I thought that was a real.

I thought he really did want him. I didn't know that was a rumor. Well, I don't know that Dame has come out and said that that was the guy that he wanted. But obviously, Dame, who would have been a kid when this was going on, he didn't have any knowledge of this. Nobody had any knowledge of this. The fans kind of got upset with Dame and then a report dropped that Dame is now threatening to leave Portland because the fans beat him up about it.

You know what I mean? So it's just. it's just wild it's wild but more than anything I'm just aghast at how many I'm just aghast every time I learn something like this

like you're going to read the book I have to so all of this was detailed in the book I have to read the book I don't I'm not going to be caught slipping like this again I should have read it before I never heard of it.

I had never heard of it either. I am going to read the book. I'm going to read the book just so I know that I don't have a jersey on of somebody that had this situation and did this and did that and did this. It's fucking nuts. Let's take a break. Want your kids to learn and play every Sunday for free? Plenty kids is using sports and evidence-based wellness coaching to help kids build confidence, resilience, and the tools they need for life. challenges and opportunities.

Every Sunday from April 12th to May 10th, we're running free sessions at the Boys and Girls Club, New Rochelle, for all children. Tap the banner or visit clinickids.com to learn more. That's Clinic with a K. Clinic Kids is a registered 501c3 nonprofit. This episode is brought to by Nass Energy, introducing new Nass Energy Grand Prix Guava.

For those that want to be fueled up and fired up with a hundred-pound-hour tropical tasting power, ignite your taste, start your engine. Shift your flavor to high gear with new Nass Energy Grand Prix Guava. Hit the street. Grab the can and get after it. All right. Critical Race Theory has a new

enemy. Pat Robertson. Is it new? Look, I thought Pat Robinson was down with us. Listen. Remember what he did with the... One step forward, 15 steps back. I gave him unexpected ally at a week.

See, this is the problem with unexpected ally of the week. The problem with unexpected ally of the week is it only lasts for a week. Really just a podcast. Really just a podcast. That's why it's unexpected. So he spoke out against police brutality. I gave him unexpected ally of the week. And then when it came to critical race theory, Pat Robertson had this to say on the 700 Club.

What is it that the people of color have been oppressed by the white people, and the white people begin to be racist by the time they're two or three months old? And therefore, the people of color have to rise up and overtake their oppressors. And then, having gotten the whip handle, if I can use that term, then to instruct their white neighbors how to behave. Now, that's critical race theory. It's niggins old as dirt. If I can use that term. I think it's like an old problematic-ass Yoda.

This is as old as dirt. He's 91. Oh, my God. He's 91 years old. If you listen to that, please make sure you go watch it. You need to see what Pat Robertson is out of here looking like. He says that critical race theory is a monstrous evil.

All right. I have a broader question about critical race theory. Okay. Is the fight for critical race theory, in your opinion, worth giving the conservatives something big and fat to demonize. Good question. So that they can bring more people to it. Because we can have conversations about the merit of critical race theory all that we want.

The reality is this. By now, anybody who wants to know what critical race theory is can go find out what critical race theory is. It is a reimagining, not actually reimagining. It is a look at society through the lens of some of the racial disparities that have. have manifested themselves in Americana since the beginning. Okay. It's a critical look into those disparities, how they relate to the average individual,

and how race actually, how racism acts as something more than an individual choice and becomes a systemic condition. And I don't think there are very many objective-minded, open-minded people that wouldn't say that race is a systemic condition at this point, okay? The limit to which it is is actually what critical race theory seeks. It's the question critical race theory seeks to answer. All right.

But what has become, and it's not being taught in schools, by the way. By and large, critical race theory is not being taught in schools. It's something that you find in the collegiate level or sometimes in the postgraduate level. By and large, it's not being taught in schools. Correct. But what it is becoming now is, what it is becoming now is a big sort of demon for the right wing portion of this country

and a lot of races to rally people to their side and I'm starting to wonder as much as I think critical race theory is useful I don't know very many black people who live and die by it I'm starting to wonder is the fight for CRT worth giving them sort of a big, huge enemy

that they can use to rally all of these people around to their side. So it's too late. It's too mainstream at this point. I don't even feel like we're fighting for it anymore. I feel like we're defending it that it's not what people like Pat Robertson have to say it is.

At this point, it is something that they have taken and they have run with it. And it's every night on Tucker Carlson's show. and you're bringing in all these people to talk about it, and they are making it a bigger deal. They are, you know, implementing this fear into the homes of white folks that you better,

you better pay attention to what this is or else they're going to grab the whip by the handle and get you like your ancestors used to get at them 300, 300 years ago. You know what I mean? It's too late at this point. It is already a hot bed issue. For 2024, we're talking about it every night. We could literally stop talking about it right now,

but it won't stop them from still doing it because it is now the new thing that they're going to use in this new election to divide us even further, to scare them so they can stick together against us because you don't want your America taken away from you again. This is the new thing. This is it.

The reason why I asked that question is because I read a very interesting article in the New York Times. And my leftist, damn near socialist, communist, communist mind was actually fucking fried by this. Headline was a growing number, well, not the headline, but a blur from the growing body of evidence indicates that large numbers of black and Latino voters may simply take a more centrist's view on the very issues, race and criminal justice, that progressives assumed would rally, voters of color to their side. So according to this article, which was really, really good in the Times, there's evidence that suggests that black and Latino people are not quite as progressive as the

progressives actually need them to be. And that we have to be a little bit more strategic in fights to build voting blocks because some of these issues, we might not have as much. strength with them as we think that they do as some of the citrus and the thing about CRT is whereas the 1619 project is not critical race theory uh but you know Kimberly crisshauls writings are and they are very very very important but the question is is it something in the broader sense of American society that is worth the fight I mean, no.

No, but it's taken, it's gotten so out of control that you just said things that aren't, I don't know if they're not public knowledge, it's just not what's being talked about. Like people are talking about implementing CRT into the school system. It's not in the school system. Teachers don't teach this in elementary and junior high and high school. This isn't something that's being taught. But for some reason, that's the rhetoric that's out there. To your point about the party, I think that that's happening on both sides of the spectrum, right? We've got progressives and you've got,

you know, your centrist, your moderates. And I think that the Democratic Party is split. And I think that the Republican Party is split. So, I mean, what you talked about in that article doesn't necessarily surprise me. But to go back to CRT, I go back to what I said the first time. we're so far into this now it's too late we're in too deep this is it it's gonna be something every person who is running in 2024

we'll talk about and for those who don't want to they're going to have to defend it because there's going to be accusations that they're supporting this that it is this I mean listen to the ridiculousness that Pat Robertson just said

what? Well and that's another problem that I have I think that the issue that I have is it's something that is so simply taken out of context and demonize. It's a little bit more easy to demonize it than it is to explain it.

And things like that are always weird. It's like what we don't have, and that's why I say shout out to Mark Lamont Hill. You guys, if you guys are looking for a show that is simply the smartest show to watch with a broadcaster slash scholar who is giving you the business every single night in a heady and academic way on these things.

Watch Black News tonight on the Black News channel or watch the clips on YouTube with Mark Lamont Hill, who is just doing a fantastic job in having the conversation around CRT. And so it's not like I'm saying that like it, that we shouldn't strive to reimagine and not reimagine, but strive to re-educate Americans based upon these things. We definitely should. But we do have to do a better job, I think, of relating this stuff to the average person who I feel like there are white people who are listening to our podcast right now, with as liberal as an audience as we have, that are kind of scared of critical race theory. When it's nothing to be afraid of, when I say it's nothing to be afraid of, it's actually like a nothing thing. it's an incredibly important academic idea and way of thinking and way of looking,

but it's not having any real impact on the world right now at all. It's like it's something that it's really not this big demon that is pumped up to be. And it's almost to the point now to where I almost wish it had never become a subject to talk about. I get that. Well, now you've got religion behind it. You know what I mean? So now you're slapping religion on it. And so it adds a whole other level to it to the people who have continued to make Pat Robertson and the likes of him as popular as they are.

Did you know that Pat Robertson's dad was like a Dixie Crat? No, but I mean, that doesn't surprise me. It doesn't surprise me. But it's like when I knew we were talking about him and I was really looking, going down a deep dive on him, I was like, well, no wonder he's the way that he is. His dad was against the civil rights movement completely and for segregation in Jim Crow laws. So this is who Pat Robertson is and continues to be. So no wonder he says these types of things.

We can no longer make him the unexpected ally of the week. He's done. So here's the way the unexpected ally of the week works. It's basically you can get it, right? You can get it more than one time, but you can only lose it once. once you fucked up, you can't come back. Like there are certain people who can't be the unexpected ally of the week. So what is it that they have when like you do something in a business establishment

and they have like your picture on the wall and it's like this person is no longer allowed to come back in here? We got to establish something like that. Because the first person in it is Pat Robertson. Yeah. No more. Yeah. So many people listen.

We got to name it something. Hall of Shame. I don't know. Hall of shame or the thought world. or ban list or something like that. I don't know. We got to think about something catchy. It's not jumping off at me right now.

Pat Robertson's on that. But he's not on it because he disagrees with us about CRT. He's on it because there are plenty of people who I respect to disagree about CRT and don't think that CRT is useful. I happen to academically disagree with him. He's on it because he used religion and called it a monstrous evil. And that type of rhetoric doesn't have any place here in the Thought Warrior community. It doesn't have any rhetoric here.

It's like he's describing the boogeyman when he talks about it. And they teach you at two to three months years. It sounds insane. Right. By Pat. CRT. Fox News. Tucker Carlson.

Hey, man, Tucker Carlson going to do it pretty soon. Tucker Carlson going to drop an inward on this show pretty soon. That's just going to put him over the top. Tucker Carlson is going crazy over there, man. He's going nuts over there. Yeah. Yeah. White replacement shit.

Tucker Carlson. it's just going crazy. Tucker Carlson will get on there one day. Like, I tell you what, you know what we got to do? We got to stop these niggers from stealing. And they're going to do nothing. We have his ratings go through roof. They don't give a fuck, I said it.

They say it. Why can't we say it? Why can't we say it? You know, I've got to ask white people this question. And by the way, we're going to do the higher learning hang. Somebody out there said that she was going to plan the higher learning hang. I got to get back to her on Twitter. We're going to do the higher learning hang.

And after we do the higher learning hang, we're going to do grapes and cheese and like champagne we're going to watch the movie okay and then we're going to do grapes and cheese and champagne we're going to do this outdoor somewhere we're going to get a big inflatable theater a big inflatable thing I'm telling you we're going to do this

we're going to why get grapes and cheese and champagne I'm just going to me and Bozeman are going to be around and Kalika and we're just going to ask people questions we're just going to ask white people questions I just want to know I just want to know why we have to keep explaining the N-word thing

to them over and over and over again. I think our audience probably gets it. I don't know if that's true. I think there's some people in the audience. We'll find out in the Q&A. Especially like once they have a couple of drinks in them. I think, this is what I'm saying. Let's say we get 300 people to the higher learning hang.

Let's say it's 300. Wow. And we, let's say 30% of those people are white. So what's that math? I don't know what that math is. What is that? What's 30% of 300? Like a little less than 100.

A little less than 100, okay? So a little less than 100 people. All right. I think out of 100 white people, once we get the champagne flowing, I think I can get five N-words out of them. Goodbye. What's the same?

Just the fact that you're even calculating this in your head. Why, Van? Why? Because I just think there's a latent N-word gene that exists in white people. So you think they're going to say it to your face? They'll say it. The only way that's going to be.

going to happen is if you play a song. The song is easy. And if you don't know, now you know, that's that. Nigger. Nigger. Let me tell you something. If we start playing songs, that number goes up to like 15, 20. I'm talking about I can, I can extract five in words out of the thought words. I already know who they are.

Because I'll be on the, I'll be on the thing. I know who you inward thought words are. All right. Time for Vance, very serious question of the week. Okay. Put yourself in a situation to where, we're not talking about your actual parents now. We're just talking about parents.

So what I'm saying is this is not the judge. This is not Ms. Lindsay. This is just parents, general parents, the feeling that you have for parents. If you were out and you're your age now, you're not as a kid, if you were out and you saw one of your parents, either your mother or your father on a date

with somebody else would you tell the other parent I've thought about this not on a date but like I've thought about what it would what I would do I absolutely would tell the other parent

I have a friend I thought about this before I have a friend that's going through this shoot okay okay does the friend know or okay does that parent know that your friend knows nope so he or she or she

saw the parent, didn't even confront the parent. So this is what happened. It was tough. He or she was coming back from Miami, laid over in New Orleans. All right. Decided, hey, I'm going to stay an extra day in New Orleans. It was out in New Orleans on the street and saw one of their parents

leaving a hotel room with a person person gets around the corner they're going to say what's up to their parents hey it's me was picked up the phone that was trying to call

was going straight to voicemail then stops and sees their parent who's in their mid-60s on the sidewalk hand on this other person's butt and kissing and then the person was white

Oh, and your friend's black. Double whammy, baby. And your friend walked away? Yes. Okay, so here's the thing. There is no way that is extremely, I don't want to say serendipitous, but the fact that all of that had to take place, all the stars had to align for your friend to see that. I'm telling. Now they knew that there was a possibility that their parent was going to be in New Orleans

because of something that was going on in Metery that they had to go do. So they knew that there was a possibility. Did they know they were going to be at that hotel? No. See what I'm saying? Everything had to work out perfectly, or maybe not perfectly, but everything had to work out and align for that to happen. For him to walk up at that moment.

Didn't say it was him. Or didn't say it. Or her, sorry. They, for them to walk out. up at that moment to see that happen. I'm telling. God wanted me to see this. And it is my duty at this point to tell.

I'm telling. That's too much for me to carry by myself. Now, did God want you to see it to tell? Or did God want you to see it to tell your parent to be like, hey, stop what you're doing. I know what it is that you're doing. God wanted me to tell. God wanted you to tell.

God wanted you to tell. God wanted me to tell. Honestly, though, that's devastating. I feel really bad for your friend. I say it like it would be easy. It would be really, really hard for me. Maybe harder, depending if it was mom or dad. But I don't know.

I just, that's too much for me to carry. I told them to go to the parent first and ask them to make it stop. Because I know what the dynamic of this relationship is. and this is going to be destructive. Let me tell you something. You really trust that parent to stop? No. Oh, yeah, yeah, I'll stop.

No. You got one, you got, honestly, I probably like, you have three days to tell or I'm telling. This is the easiest question you've ever given me. I'm telling. Because if the parent finds out that I knew. Yeah, that's another thing. You know what I'm saying?

Right. If the parent, yeah. And I would go to the parent that, cheating first and I would be like you put me in this situation I'm extremely uncomfortable I don't want to be in this I'm giving you an opportunity to speak your piece first if you don't do that and handle that then I got to say something this is too much and it and I wouldn't feel bad about it because I'm not cheating because you did this to the family so this person you see how much I've thought about this before you're getting so set so the person the person goes you know I didn't see them

so I could just pretend like I never saw it oh no I was like no you can't you can't pretend like you never saw. Your friend's going to be in therapy too if not already. That's tough. Everybody joined a therapy bandwagon. That's tough. This is a dark, serious question.

I feel so sorry for your friend. Like my heart really goes out to your friend. That's tough. But God wanted you to see it for a reason. Now look. Now look. I know this is a touchy subject with us. But do you feel bad that I got a couple jokes off?

No. It's not a touchy subject. I got it. I got it. I don't want you to feel like you. You can't joke. No, in this situation, I had to get a couple jokes off. It probably made your friend feel a little bit better, to be honest.

Like, they probably needed a laugh. I would need to laugh. Yeah, I got to, I had to get a couple of jokes off because I don't go lie. It's just weird to see a person of our age, like, really going through it like this. Yeah. Like behind their parents. And these aren't, like, attractive parents either. You know, this is some.

That's an unnecessary detail. You didn't need to include that in the story. These are some Pat Robertsons. You know what I'm saying? These are some, these, it's not like the old, you know,

like Denzel is 64 and they still win it. These are some people that you don't think fuck anymore. Okay, but what was the woman like other than white? You gave us that. I'm going to be honest with you. I didn't say it was a woman, by the way.

I said it was another person. Oh, you didn't. Sorry. I'm picturing it in my head. I didn't say it was a woman because I don't want to give nothing away. I personally think that the other person was on the clock. What do you mean? I think that there was some hired help that was going on.

If you asked me from the description of the other person, I think it was a sex worker. Oh, no. So it's not a relationship. Wow. I don't think so. I don't think it's a relationship. On the clock.

Just make your money. All right. That's a very serious question of the week. Look, what hotel was it? What hotel was it? I don't think he said. But it was definitely on... Was it in the French Quarter?

Yeah, it was definitely on Canal, though. Because he said they walked out Canal. Oh, it was part of Marriott. Yeah, so it was definitely on Canal, though. Since they walked out Canal, they walked down. He was like, first thought maybe... Very public street. Business doing fucking the most.

That was my thing. That's a very... Like that was my thing. I was like, this might be, this might be like doing fucking the most. Doing the most. For the first time, I'm going to do a survey on our thought warriors

about this particular various serious question. Oh, we're doing on Twitter. Twitter. But do both. We're doing on Twitter. We do both. We're doing it on Twitter. We're doing it on there.

Would you tell? Would you fucking tell? All right. All right. That's enough. Tell you thing, caps off, but do not stop learning. I am Van Lathen. I'm Rachel Lindsay.

We out.